Negative thoughts instead of not doing the job

[bluestrike15]

I'm not one for people being lazy or feeling too good to do something, When I've got people scrambling to grab things in the middle of using the Crash Landing Mod, It is kind of annoying to have a useless person sitting their cause he as a KingPin feels too good to haul in the burning food. So I think instead of baring characters like him from doing hauling, cleaning and generally being useful, it should instead cause a negative thought to the pawn. This would allow us players to in a dire situation use these guys to save the colony and when things are on a down turn, I can turn off those things that he hates doing. But this isn't just for all backstories though, There are some that literally bar them from doing things cause they just cant do them. This suggestion goes more to the pawns willingly choosing not to do those things cause they feel like they are better.

[JimmyAgnt007]

I agree that cleaning and hauling should always be doable for people.  Except for maybe Assassins who only have melee and shooting.  A negative mood mod is the best solution.  Other jobs on the other hand like doctoring I would include as well just because that if there is an emergency then you dont have a choice. 

[Livingston I Presume]

Remembering that some people are literally incapable as they can't, not just won't.  Forcing an empath to attack someone for example, he would rather leave your colony or become dazed if he even spent too much time thinking about it.  And people are incapable for a large array of reasons, from sociel engineering, horrific upbringings and many other things.  A Vatgrown soldier is incapable of care because he literally cannot understand the idea of helping strangers, it's just so alien to him, if you asked him to doctor he wouldn't know where to begin, I think the current system works better, but if there was to be a mood debuf it should be at least -25 and has a chance of causing and instant break.

[NuclearStudent]

Remembering that some people are literally incapable as they can't, not just won't.  Forcing an empath to attack someone for example, he would rather leave your colony or become dazed if he even spent too much time thinking about it.  And people are incapable for a large array of reasons, from sociel engineering, horrific upbringings and many other things.  A Vatgrown soldier is incapable of care because he literally cannot understand the idea of helping strangers, it's just so alien to him, if you asked him to doctor he wouldn't know where to begin, I think the current system works better, but if there was to be a mood debuf it should be at least -25 and has a chance of causing and instant break.

That's for extreme situations. However, people like Medieval Lords are perfectly capable of cleaning. Even if their culture frowns on them doing manual labor, they can't all be so stupid as to refuse to grin and bear it.

[bluestrike15]

Remembering that some people are literally incapable as they can't, not just won't.  Forcing an empath to attack someone for example, he would rather leave your colony or become dazed if he even spent too much time thinking about it.  And people are incapable for a large array of reasons, from sociel engineering, horrific upbringings and many other things.  A Vatgrown soldier is incapable of care because he literally cannot understand the idea of helping strangers, it's just so alien to him, if you asked him to doctor he wouldn't know where to begin, I think the current system works better, but if there was to be a mood debuf it should be at least -25 and has a chance of causing and instant break.

That's for extreme situations. However, people like Medieval Lords are perfectly capable of cleaning. Even if their culture frowns on them doing manual labor, they can't all be so stupid as to refuse to grin and bear it.

Yes that was what I was going for. I understand what you met Livingston. I agree that those Roles should be completely unable to do the jobs that they cant do but for Medieval lords and the like, they need to suck it up.

[Limdood]

i certainly don't see it as "beyond believable" that a medieval lord would be SO stuck up that he'd rather die than dirty his hands.

The limitations on jobs might not be completely believable as realistic, but they add a challenging aspect to the game to work around.  Game mechanics > realism.

If everyone could do anything, then the only skills that matter would be shooting, medicine, crafting, and art.  But when you need to carefully assign each colonist based on their abilities and restrictions, it makes for a more interesting game.

[JimmyAgnt007]

Maybe instead they are only possible if nobody else can do it?  Better to have a total noob try and stop the bleeding out of the other guy whos the doctor if they are the only two people in the colony.  As for dumb labor, I think it should be possible to force it.

[MeowRailroad]

And that would prevent the incapable of caring person just walking around the base while the other 4 colonists bleed out in the hospital.

[NoImageAvailable]

A chat conversation I still had saved on my desktop because I only clean it out like twice a year:

Code Select Expand

noimageavailable 2:14 PM
One interesting change would be if work caused joy to deplete much faster
And if you have a passion for a certain type of work, you get joy out of it instead or don't loose as much

isistoy 2:15 PM
that'd be a sensible thing, yes

noimageavailable 2:15 PM
So you have a soft-cap on what a pawn can do based on his passions without the whole "I won't haul to save my life, literally" thing that Rimworld's disabled work types have

isistoy 2:16 PM
haha
but that's tough to put in place

shinzy 2:17 PM
"-50 to -41 Finds hauling abhorrent and believes anyone who hauls should be executed on the spot"

isistoy 2:17 PM
skills and workgivers are created based on backstory traits I believe accepted there as well

alistaire 2:18 PM
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b1aKOoF3Gw4/hqdefault.jpg (40KB)
Every time I see a noble

shinzy 2:20 PM
someone needs to make the things cause ton of joy loss instead of just the pawns not doing it

alistaire 2:20 PM
yh

shinzy 2:20 PM
Oh and possibly make sure they don't do the tasks without being told to

noimageavailable
2:21 PM I kinda wonder if it is possible to disable all vanilla backstories, then replace them all with the ones from mipen's mod

isistoy 2:21 PM
that's another syndrome :stuck_out_tongue:

noimageavailable 2:21 PM
Or just change what the "incapable of" thing does

isistoy 2:22 PM
I think that could possibly be achieved
there is at least a random chance for these to be taken

shinzy 2:22 PM
could make it disallow any experience gain on that skill

isistoy 2:22 PM
for a new pawn

noimageavailable 2:22 PM
I mean the whole thing is so poorly thought through, so you have this vatgrown soldier who was bred for war yet is incapable of basic first aid and he turns into a surgeon, wut?

shinzy 2:23 PM
but that wouldn't work for hauling and stuff

alistaire 2:23 PM
They could just grow over it

shinzy 2:24 PM
there was only one premade backstory thing that made sense in disabling the skill at adulthood that they were good at in childhood backstory
I can't remember what it was =P

noimageavailable 2:25 PM
Oh yeah, the one that gave medical skill and disabled doctoring?

shinzy 2:25 PM
yeah I think it was to do with medical skill somehow
which is why having tasks that give severe hits on joy would be charming little thing on your pawns
your superman doctor with ptsd or something =P

isistoy 2:28 PM
trait combinations or lack of, would trigger such mood effects
miamm :stuck_out_tongue:

noimageavailable 2:29 PM
Okay, someone copy this conversation to a .txt and send it to Tynan

shinzy 2:29 PM
you do it!

noimageavailable 2:30 PM
I can't, my childhood backstory means I'm incapable of copy-paste

TL;DR I think a better way to handle jobs would be tying it into joy, where the pawn's disposition governs the amount of joy he gains/loses from that type of work. Instead of a hard disabled worktype it would dump joy really quickly and give negative thoughts. That way you still want to avoid it whenever possible but in emergencies you can just take the mood penalty.

The limitations on jobs might not be completely believable as realistic, but they add a challenging aspect to the game to work around.  Game mechanics > realism.

People discard realism too quickly, usually in defense of shallow, arcadey game mechanics. A more realistic system would allow for more complex (=more interesting) decision making where you weight the costs and benefits of having certain pawns perform hated work types, rather than the simplistic "can't do this, period" mechanic that we have right now.