Loss of goodwill when killing a berserking friendly who attacked me first

asanbr · December 06, 2015, 11:13:08 AM

I was fighting a phychic alien ship with the help of some people from Uncle's Rest stop who I called in as reinforcements.

During the fight, one of their soldiers goes berserk and starts attacking my shooters instead of the aliens.

My sniper shot him dead without me ordering it, and I lost something like 50 goodwill because I killed a friendly. They didn't become hostile but they dropped to -26 from somewhere at least +20 to +50 . I don't have the exact numbers before, but it should be something like that since I had enough goodwill to call them in the first place.

It may not be a code bug as such, but I think it's unfair behavior. What am I supposed to do, let him kill my fighters because he is berserking?

TLHeart · December 06, 2015, 02:05:11 PM

I don't consider that a bug, since you did kill one of their colonists, regardless of the reasons.

asanbr · December 06, 2015, 02:07:35 PM

Quote from: TLHeart on December 06, 2015, 02:05:11 PM
I don't consider that a bug, since you did kill one of their colonists, regardless of the reasons.

Do you think it makes sense?

There's not even a safe non-lethal way of incapacitating people in the game. So what am I supposed to do in this situation, run away? I could probably have done that and let the mechs kill him.

giannikampa · December 06, 2015, 05:01:01 PM

yes as for now the game works this way, tecnically it is not a bug but an user unfriendly simplification in the factions behviours, i'd put this in suggestons rather than in bugs section.
And it has my complete support. Still I can't find a fast solution that does not become exploitable somehow.

TLHeart · December 06, 2015, 08:42:30 PM

Quote from: asanbr on December 06, 2015, 02:07:35 PM
Quote from: TLHeart on December 06, 2015, 02:05:11 PM
I don't consider that a bug, since you did kill one of their colonists, regardless of the reasons.

Do you think it makes sense?

There's not even a safe non-lethal way of incapacitating people in the game. So what am I supposed to do in this situation, run away? I could probably have done that and let the mechs kill him.

Yes it makes sense from a gaming point of view. they sent people to help, you killed him, reason does not matter.

milon · December 07, 2015, 07:55:12 AM

I agree with the OP that there should be another way to handle that situation. However, giannikampa is right - anything else I can think of is too exploitable. Without a better solution it has to stay the way it is.

RickyMartini · December 09, 2015, 01:15:09 PM

Quote from: TLHeart on December 06, 2015, 08:42:30 PM
Yes it makes sense from a gaming point of view. they sent people to help, you killed him, reason does not matter.

Doesn't make sense to me, those are people that can communicate. If you can call them up on the comms console, they should also not bother if a berserk one got killed.

Also, from a devs perspective, it's easy to code this. If berserk friendly gets killed -> no goodwill.

milon · December 09, 2015, 03:43:03 PM

That's easily gamed though:

1. Friendlies visit
2. They wander into a room
3. Build wall over the door
4. Wait
5. Friendlies berserk
6. Player kills them (actively or passively)
7. ? ? ?
8. Profit!

Just sayin'.

TLHeart · December 09, 2015, 04:23:07 PM

milon gets it.

RickyMartini · December 11, 2015, 02:28:13 PM

Makes sense, milon.

milon · December 12, 2015, 10:48:07 PM

In alpha 12, is there relation loss for passive deaths? (ie, change #6 above to 'wait until they starve'). Because that's gamey too.

RickyMartini · December 14, 2015, 09:41:31 AM

I'm guessing passive deaths don't count. I didn't test it.

Fluffy (l2032) · December 27, 2015, 05:04:50 PM

Although it is unfortunate, I wouldn't call it a bug - just a good example of random events having unforeseen side effects.

Also, in reality, if one of your family went berserk and someone killed him - wouldn't you like the killer a little bit less, even if a jury said it was self-defence?

asanbr · January 05, 2016, 11:14:00 AM

Quote from: milon on December 09, 2015, 03:43:03 PM
That's easily gamed though:

1. Friendlies visit
2. They wander into a room
3. Build wall over the door
4. Wait
5. Friendlies berserk
6. Player kills them (actively or passively)
7. ? ? ?
8. Profit!

Just sayin'.

This is already possible as is, if you just let them starve to death. They sometimes drop lots of cash too.

My solution later on to the above situation is to use dev mode and restore my goodwill to what it was.

A similar problem occurs when calling in helpers to fight the aliens, and they send melee people who accidentaly get hit by one of my bullets, even without berserk.

Thriorion · January 28, 2016, 08:57:59 PM

Quote from: asanbr on December 06, 2015, 02:07:35 PM
Quote from: TLHeart on December 06, 2015, 02:05:11 PM
I don't consider that a bug, since you did kill one of their colonists, regardless of the reasons.

Do you think it makes sense?

There's not even a safe non-lethal way of incapacitating people in the game. So what am I supposed to do in this situation, run away? I could probably have done that and let the mechs kill him.

You can use psychic shock lances to disable people without killing them. There is a risk that it will kill them or give them brain damage, but it CAN just down them without any damage. I recommend saving before you use it. You can normally buy them from exotic traders, sometimes from pirate traders, although that is much rarer in my experience. You can also find them in cryptocasket tombs, but I don't know what the chances are on that at all. They typically cost me around 900 silver or so from the traders on rough difficulty setting.