Let's talk about melee combat

Started by cultist, April 24, 2016, 08:35:29 AM

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Vaporisor

Well, the idea with melee shields and such isn't more HP, but more about damage reduction for skilled melee people.  Good melee does use tactics a fair bit.  I make use of flanking and rushing to tie up important people.  Not sure how the combat itself can be more 'dynamic'  Special moves and such could be interesting, but melee and the choice of weapons itself lean towards unique hits and events.

Pull around corner and such?  From a UI point of view could be difficult.  It would have to go back to a melee vs melee skill I guess.  In a fight you really won't be able to subdue somebody who is fighting back easily without beating em down or just swamping them.  A good melee vs poor melee can one hit KO with a dodge system theoretically.
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Altair XIII
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b0rsuk

Quote from: Vaporisor on April 30, 2016, 12:54:00 PM
Well, the idea with melee shields and such isn't more HP, but more about damage reduction for skilled melee people.
Translation: it's more HP. And it would just make pawns even more bullet spongy.

QuoteSpecial moves and such could be interesting, but melee and the choice of weapons itself lean towards unique hits and events.
Weapon variety is there for ranged weapons, but not for melee. You have slow vs fast weapons and that's it. Cutting weapons are not very good if you want to capture colonists because they tend to cut limbs. Why not weapons with knockback ? They would enable to defend against multiple attackers. Or a weapon which enables hit&run attacks, something I could smack a megaspider with and not suffer retaliation. Maybe a spear could work like that.
Quote
Pull around corner and such?  From a UI point of view could be difficult.  It would have to go back to a melee vs melee skill I guess.  In a fight you really won't be able to subdue somebody who is fighting back easily without beating em down or just swamping them.  A good melee vs poor melee can one hit KO with a dodge system theoretically.
If you think in terms of melee strikes, no. But techniques like judo and wrestling are about grabs and throws.

Vaporisor

Oh, I see more what you are saying.  Yeah, we essentially have four groups of melee.  Blunt and sharp each with fast and slow.  While that offers some variance, it would be nice if there was more like how weapons have range, accuracy, etc.  Thinking in terms of game and modding, watching predators gives me some ideas...

First is the 'stun' it would be real interesting if certain weapons could cause a stun effect.  So say shivs and clubs.

Disarm really would be vital as well and can go on weapons like the short sword and unarmed combat.  Both chance related to melee skill.  Unarmed combat being unique in that it is the only one that can both stun and disarm making martial artists (high melee, no weapon) a viable usage. 

Also means if there is that one invader you REALLY want to capture more viable to capture by sending out unarmed, high melee peeps.  The capturing of people is something that can frustrate me at times, especially with the new persistent and social system.  We get an attack, know that _____ spouse is there.  I send three no melee skill guys equipped with range weapons to melee that person and they still kill them most every time.  But a prison break with ten prisoners that knocks out every one of them and all but one of my colonists has zero fatalities.

Knockback and grabbling would be interesting, I just am trying to imagine how it would work in rimworld.  Having reach weapons would be cool though allowing melee people to stab and defend from doorways without having to fully expose themselves.  Side effects of attacks is probably the most immediately implementable.  Is there any mods for that?
Stories by Vaporisor

Escaped convicts!
concluded
Altair XIII
Frozen Wastes

b0rsuk

If unarmed combat was a guarantee to capture a living prisoner, Melee would see more use. As it is, with its 40 HP it's fairly common to see opponent's torso punched to destruction.

Vaporisor

Quote from: b0rsuk on April 30, 2016, 01:40:56 PM
If unarmed combat was a guarantee to capture a living prisoner, Melee would see more use. As it is, with its 40 HP it's fairly common to see opponent's torso punched to destruction.

That bothers me so much.  I remember a playthrough as a cannibal colony and so much savescumming cause I could never capture the attacking cannibals alive.  Rush the guy with my worst melee people while unarmed and still kill them 4/5 times.  Playing a themed colony or as slavers can get quite frustrating...
Stories by Vaporisor

Escaped convicts!
concluded
Altair XIII
Frozen Wastes

Negocromn

Quote from: b0rsuk on April 30, 2016, 01:40:56 PM
If unarmed combat was a guarantee to capture a living prisoner, Melee would see more use. As it is, with its 40 HP it's fairly common to see opponent's torso punched to destruction.

Quote from: Vaporisor on April 30, 2016, 01:46:56 PM

That bothers me so much.  I remember a playthrough as a cannibal colony and so much savescumming cause I could never capture the attacking cannibals alive.  Rush the guy with my worst melee people while unarmed and still kill them 4/5 times.  Playing a themed colony or as slavers can get quite frustrating...

That's more of a problem with the storyteller system than melee itself. When any pawn that is not one of your colonists is incapacitated, there's a chance the storyteller, depending on the game circumstances, will just kill it. And the chance is always big afaik.

NephilimNexus

Rimworld melee combat does not acknowledge the idea of "parrying."

Very frustrating.