More granularity in outfit settings

Started by Jorlem, April 28, 2016, 01:39:57 PM

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Jorlem

Currently, the quality settings apply to all types of clothing at once.  I would like to be have the option to set them individually for each type of clothing.  That way I could tell my colonists not to wear anything below normal quality, or 50% damage, except for personal shields, which they should wear if one is available and they don't have a ranged weapon, regardless of the shield's quality.

b0rsuk

Think how much micromanagement it would cause.
I'd rather have a setting to make a colonist prioritize prettiness, armour value, or comfort/temperature. Or any combination of these. I don't want to set up for each type of clothing, especially that these settings go away with a new colony.

An ability to put weapons into outfits would be nice. Currently outfits can't distinguish between ranged and melee combatants.

Jorlem

I don't see how it would cause much more micromanagement.  You'd have the default setting on the top that would apply to everything, then you'd be able to set exceptions that override that for individual articles of clothing.

Mathenaut

Not really a micromanagement thing. Default isn't anything that needs to be toggled for anyone that doesn't want to bother.

Until the quality system gets a better look at, this doesn't seem too bad.

ReZpawner

Quote from: b0rsuk on April 28, 2016, 07:17:43 PM
Think how much micromanagement it would cause.
I'd rather have a setting to make a colonist prioritize prettiness, armour value, or comfort/temperature. Or any combination of these. I don't want to set up for each type of clothing, especially that these settings go away with a new colony.

An ability to put weapons into outfits would be nice. Currently outfits can't distinguish between ranged and melee combatants.

That sounds good to me. I almost lost some colonists because they decided on putting on cloth parkas rather than muffalo-wool ones, before venturing out into -110C.

b0rsuk

Quote from: Jorlem on April 28, 2016, 07:57:47 PM
I don't see how it would cause much more micromanagement.  You'd have the default setting on the top that would apply to everything, then you'd be able to set exceptions that override that for individual articles of clothing.
And people who stick to defaults would lose colonists. In practice, no choice but to use it.

Think about the bigger picture. Typically you don't want your colonist to dress in red pants and blue shirt. You don't care about that kind of micro, and if you do you can only manufacture these.

I care about my medieval lords, sheriffs, and other lazy shooters wearing the most effective armor vests and helmets, and toughest pants and jackets, rather than the shiniest.
I want my miners, woodcutters, hunters and perhaps construction workers to dress warmly.
Indoor workers shouldn't use parkas.

So there are several criterias. Imagine instead of a setting for quality, color etc for each type of outfit you define priorities for an outfit. Here's how I would define my outfits in a boreal forest:

Outfit: Sniper
Priorities, in this order: Warmth, Movement Speed, Armor, Work Speed
(A sniper who harasses ship parts, sieges, delayed attacks, sappers should be able to stay long in the cold, and movement speed is more important than armor because he won't get shot at. But if two pieces of clothing don't compromise his warmth and movement speed, he will chose the tougher one. Work speed is not important. Parkas are fine.)
Survival rifles and sniper rifles

Outfit: Outside worker
Priorities: Work Speed, Warmth, Movement Speed, Armor
(No parkas, jackets are fine in most biomes. Movement speed is nice to have, but if you spend long periods in one place, not so important.)

Outfit: Hauler
Priorities: Movement Speed, Warmth, Armor, Work Speed
(Note to self: consider merging haulers with snipers)

Outfit: Colony Guard
Priorities: Armor, Work Speed, Movement Speed, Warmth
(Colony guards are folks who spend a lot of time close to colony or indoors. They must be ready to resist damage. Work speed is nice to have because they often do simple jobs like stonecutting. Movement not a priority, and they don't go outside long enough to catch a cold.)
Helmet, Vest, Assault Rifle, Charge Rifle, etc.

Outfit: Noncombat worker (sculptor, crafter etc)
Priorities: Work Speed, Armor, Movement Speed, Warmth etc
No helmet, no armor vest, no weapon.

Outfit: Melee fighter
Priorities: Armor, Movement Speed, etc.
Helmet, Vest, Personal Shield
Melee weapon
(Turret Repairer would get the same minus weapon)

And so on. I would also make my minigunners / charge riflers / LMGers wear power armor, power helmets etc.

Mufflamingo

I make a new outfit, named it 'forced' clear everything, they will start to undress. Now force the things you want them to wear, they will not wear anything else unless you force them too. No more blockheads wearing parka during summer.
Bleeeee. . . . .

Jorlem

Quote from: b0rsuk on April 29, 2016, 05:35:57 AM
Quote from: Jorlem on April 28, 2016, 07:57:47 PM
I don't see how it would cause much more micromanagement.  You'd have the default setting on the top that would apply to everything, then you'd be able to set exceptions that override that for individual articles of clothing.
And people who stick to defaults would lose colonists. In practice, no choice but to use it.

...
snip
...
You are somewhat missing my point, and we seem to use the controls for managing outfits for different things.  You use them to set up outfits for different jobs.  I mainly use those controls to avoid the mood penalties for overly damaged or poorly made clothing.  I don't care about what the clothing is, just the quality.  However, personal shields are rare enough that, for those that need them (my melee guys), I don't care what the quality is.  So I'd want my colonists to only wear clothing that doesn't grant a penalty, unless they need a shield, in which case they should use any that's available.  That's why I want to grant individual exceptions to the overall outfit quality controls.

Shinzy

Quote from: Jorlem on April 29, 2016, 08:10:46 AMpersonal shields are rare enough that, for those that need them (my melee guys), I don't care what the quality is.  So I'd want my colonists to only wear clothing that doesn't grant a penalty, unless they need a shield, in which case they should use any that's available.  That's why I want to grant individual exceptions to the overall outfit quality controls.

Wouldn't the "force equip" be the way to go in this case?

Jorlem

#9
Quote from: Shinzy on April 29, 2016, 08:29:55 AM
Quote from: Jorlem on April 29, 2016, 08:10:46 AMpersonal shields are rare enough that, for those that need them (my melee guys), I don't care what the quality is.  So I'd want my colonists to only wear clothing that doesn't grant a penalty, unless they need a shield, in which case they should use any that's available.  That's why I want to grant individual exceptions to the overall outfit quality controls.


Wouldn't the "force equip" be the way to go in this case?
Potentially, but I'd rather not have to micro every melee colonist to pick their shield, then check each one when a new shield is captured to see if it is better than one of the ones in use.  I'd prefer that the game itself handle that, which is why I'd like to set a setting and not have to manually do it all the time.

Mathenaut

Quote from: b0rsuk on April 29, 2016, 05:35:57 AM
And people who stick to defaults would lose colonists. In practice, no choice but to use it.

Do you lose colonists over this now? If so, you have other management issues.

It isn't that much more efficient, especially for something checked infrequently.

Mufflamingo

Am I the only one here who force equip every single equipment that I want to a certain colonist?
Bleeeee. . . . .

cultist

#12
Quote from: Mufflamingo on April 30, 2016, 11:42:00 AM
Am I the only one here who force equip every single equipment that I want to a certain colonist?

I tend to set up outifts as soon as possible. Usually around the time I get my 4th colonist and have to consider what they should wear. Microing clothes for 3 pawns is fine, doing it for 8-10 pawns is too much fiddling for me.

As for the OP, I think it might make sense to differentiate between armor and clothing. However, whether you wear something for protection or warmth, it essentially comes down to quality. And there's no reason to wear low quality stuff if you've got something better in the stockpile. What I usually do is early on, I let everyone wear any quality. Then I slowly increase the overall quality level as I produce/loot better stuff. The only issue as you mentioned are personal shields, but that's what force equip is for.

koisama

I would kill for a "material" setting. Seeing pawns exchanging their muffalo wool parkas to cloth parkas in the middle of the ice sheet winter is sad.

Mathenaut

All of this could be fixed if we could just repair our equipment, though.