Alpha 3 WTF?

[Dr. Z]

I really like the new version but what the fuck did you do to the Muffalos. In one moment they look like giant heads, the next they are undefinable peaces of meat, the next moment they are bushes?!?!? (I can't make pictures, because when I try I get a picture of my desktop and not the game)
And why can't I build anything near the map, my colony almost got wiped out because of a gap in my nothern wall!
And it would be great if you could interact with visitors from other factions, to become friends and trade and so on.

But I have to say that the music is fucking amazing, I almost cried because it's so incredible. And the german translation is good, too. Much better then I expected. And I feel like it has a smoother framerate then the other builds, after a time they started lagging like hell, especially when I zoomed out.

All in all it's a great new version, but I feel like on drugs when I look at the Muffalos long enough

[confusedwings]

1. kill the joint
2. trash your injection needle
3. those are not 'm&m' and you know it so leave them...
4. now wait about 24 to 48 hours
...
Now look again to those animals... still the same???
- if YES... ok it's not you... keep drinking and doing drugs...
- if NO... ok so it is you... don't mind it and just restart drinking and drugs

just kidding :p

[Haplo]

Yes, there is a problem with the muffalos. It is already set as a bug, but Tynan didn't find it in time.
It seems to come from entering the mod menu and afterwards starting the colony.
Try to restart RimWorld and don't go into the mod menu, start the game directly.

The gap to the borders is intentional from Tynan. You should be forced to build closer to the center or something like that

Factions are a really new feature. Don't expect every aspect with a new feature. You know this is still an alpha, don't you? 

And the german translation: Thank you TheEisbaer and me worked rather hard on it to make it as good as possible. Unfortunately the newest translation update didn't make the alpha release in time. But TheEisbaer already has the newest version released. Search for it in Mod->Release or Translation.

But yeah, all in all I like how the game is progressing so far, too

[Dr. Z]

Ok, thank you for the advise with the muffalos, the thing with the mapedge really is a peace of crap but the rest of the game is amazing and the faction system makes it more intense even in this unfinished state.
I'm looking ahead for Alpha 26 

[bigwolf2101]

ok the thing with the map border thing is a bunch of crap but that's just my thoughts

[Gideon]

Map edge limitations were needed to prevent exploiting it.

I find that backing my base up to a large feature, such as a mountain, can achieve similar results without having to go to the edge.

I'm glad larger map options were included to compensate.

[ShadowTani]

Considering how many raids now come from the map borders and not just from drop pods I think the map no-build frame is understandable.

However, I also think it should been displayed with a transparent colored tint (red?) whenever you go to build something to get an actual idea of where it is without having to count tiles manually. Or a button for it with the other "display-zone" buttons. x3

[Tynan]

Considering how many raids now come from the map borders and not just from drop pods I think the map no-build frame is understandable.

However, I also think it should been displayed with a transparent colored tint (red?) whenever you go to build something to get an actual idea of where it is without having to count tiles manually. Or a button for it with the other "display-zone" buttons. x3

Good idea there. I can do that.

[Dr. Z]

Please remove it, I really love the game but this is the worst idea ever made.
The raids which come from the edge of the map ever start at the opposite side of the map anyway when you build at the edge. So I don't see the sense of it.

[Tynan]

Why is it the worst idea ever made? Unpack your thought process for me.

[BattleFate]

Hi Tynan,

I myself don't like not being able to build near the map edge, but as I understand it there was a purpose behind that? Can you reiterate what that purpose was? Maybe there's a less... jarring... way to implement it?

Already I like the idea of displaying the no-build-zone. Perhaps there are other things we can implement?

[Dr. Z]

Well since Alpha three I had two colonys which I played more then 10 days (the others where lost to be-to-dumb-to-copy-savegames), and boths defenses where more or less doomed by the restriction.

In the first colony, I walled it of like in the other build before. At the nothern end (edge of the map) ther was a little mountain with 2-3 squares space to the edge. My plan was to build a wall from the south to the mountain and then from the upper end to the edge, but thanks to the restriction the wall stopped 2 squares before the mountain, so there where 2 gaps in my defense, one between the end of the wall and the mountain and one between the mountain and the edge of the map, when there was a raid I almost got wiped out because ther were these two holes.

It looked like this:

Code Select Expand


EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
E                                       G
E                          MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
E                     MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
E                         MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
E                  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM    G
E                                       G
E                                       W
E                                       W
E                                       W

E=Edge; W=Wall; G=Gap; M=Mountain


In my second colony, the one I'm playing right now, I build an emergency exit throu the mountain to a ruin. My plan was to fill the gaps in the walls of the ruin and deposit some metal so that my colonists could build some auto turrets to defend the room (I didn't build them before a raid, because they would increse it). But the back wall of the ruin was in the no-building-zone, so I couldn't build a room my colonists could hide in and when the two wounded survivors from the first raid came there, they had to fight, which they barely survived, but again, I almost lost because of this building restriction.

It looken like this:

Code Select Expand


MM   MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MM   MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MM   MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MM   MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
MM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
                                                        RRRRRRRRRRRR
                                                        R          R
                                                        R                   
                                                        R          R
                                                        W          R
                                                        R                   
                                                        R          R
                                                        RRRRRRRRRRRR
W=Wall; G=Gap; M=Mountain


Sure I could have build my own room but why? The raids NEVER come frome the edge of the map I am building my base at, they always start at the opposite side, so why is the game forbidding me something I could use just because of a rule that has, in my opinion, just a hypothetical sense, but no practical?

[Tynan]

The game is balanced and designed for bases built in the middle area of the map. Maybe up against a rock wall or something, but fundamentally with space around them so AIs can come visit and attack from all sides.

With A2 and earlier I saw a lot of degenerate strategies where people would pack their base into the corner of the map, treating the map edge as an invincible wall to protect them. This reduces the number of ways they can be approached by a factor of 4.

In fact, you'd be foolish not to do this if you want to win. It was simply the smartest way to play the game.

It's also insufferably lame and fiction-breaking. I don't want the map edge to be a game mechanic. It's there because the system can't simulate a whole planet; there is no other reason.

I also don't want the balancing challenge of trying to balance against both players who are playing in a normal non-lame way, and corner exploiters. The game will always be too easy or too hard for one. And I can't think of any reasonable game counter-move (like a special enemy) against corner-exploiters to make them prefer to build in the middle.

So, I decided just to disallow building right up against the map edge. There's still tons of space to build in. Obviously it annoys some people when a game arbitrarily prevents them from doing something which looks like it should be possible. But based on the tradeoffs involved I think that's less pain than the alternative.

----

Dr. Z's cases are interesting because I hadn't thought of players making large-scale plans assuming they could build close to the map edge and then being blocked unexpectedly.

I'm going to add a visual indicator of the "construction boundaries" to try to reduce this kind of problem. Perhaps better feedback will help people avoid making plans they can't execute.

Perhaps I'll tune the boundary width as well. Anyway, thank you for providing useful play stories for me to work from (these are always more useful than suggestions).

[BattleFate]

Perhaps you could allow for a couple of wall segments to be built in the 'no-build' zone, say no more than 10 sections. This will allow people to fill in small  gaps or rebuild ruins for their own use without building an entire base there.

I believe on one of my games, there was a geyser opening near the map edge too... too close for me to exploit due to the edge restrictions (I may be wrong, I never did get a chance to use it, but it was very close).

Maybe sandbags and turrets could be built there too... to allow players to exploit natural valleys in their defenses, without necessarily allowing them to build whole bases?

[Dr. Z]

Well there might be tonns of space when the larger maps become playable, but the game tells me that it's still not optimized for anything other then the samllest map size (which I think even got smaller with Alpha 3) and sadly my machine isn't a beast and I'm not willing to encounter performence problems (I have them even with the samllest map size). And in 90% of all cases 1/3 of the map is a large mountain, and I choose the place of my base according to the geysers positions, and again, with only the smallest map size playable, it's hard to find a map where there is a large mountain in the small center with a geyser AND enough space to actully build a base there.

But after your reply I understood your thoughts and they make sense. Maybe you could forbid ruins to be placed in this region too? And perhaps make them a little smaller, at least on the samller maps.

I also like BattleFate's idea of a small amount of wall segments allowed to be build in this region.