[A17] VE-CO. Vanilla Friendly Combat Overhaul - Updated to A17

[Aristocat]

Why so centered on melee? Melee mostly sucks, even high melee skill doesn't do much. In my opinion melee needs like complete and utter overhaul from skills (different things like dodge, counters, blocks, grazes, knockdowns for animals - pounces, - its too primitive right now, it adds just hit chance which is quite high anyway). Its sucks mostly because you're always outnumbered and with current melee system a godlike 20 lvl figher can easily lose just by RNG to a complete novice, so its not viable at all. The only way melee is useful is if you have a bunch of enemies with ranged weapons, that you can instantly force into melee, while your guys have proper melee weapons, giving you advantage (that still can be negated if enemies heavily outnumber you).

In A14 or A15 I made a mod that higher quality weapons has shorter cooldown time and legendary sword allowed me to attack almost three times per enemy punch, so it was ridiculously overpowered and it was "viable", so I'd say godlike melee is rather easily possible if they make melee skill reduce cooldown and increase damage. It increased damage so high that even centipedes died within second.

Though this isn't for melee. In my current run all of my guys armed with shotguns and heavy SMGs with few melees and it's very viable, especially since they don't lose bodyparts like in vanilla. Problem is though, I have few bears and wolves but they are mostly useless, so that's why I want to buff them.

Those advanced shields... well they can be useful to equip on a "bullet sponge" colonist to redirect fire, but I doubt people will actually switch to melee. Too many enemies to deal with, while the danger is too high. Losing limbs in melee is too easy.

It would be useless for bullet sponge pawns since it doesn't really regenerate in battle, it's more useful when you try to breach through and need to redirect first fire.

How exactly are you plan to make wolves and bears invincible? Right now if you send someone to hunt in winter on the other end of the map and a hungry wolf decides to hunt him - in 90% of times he'll be dead, because wolves pretty much can't be defeated with bare fists and hunter always have ranged weapon. And you don't get the notification until wolf is already tearing him apart. Making them even more powerful can have... unwanted side effects. I am all up for diversifying melee combat and increasing combat pets usefulness, but I can't imagine it without incorporating a whole new melee system with mentioned things like pounces, deadly bear hugs, dodges and etc... I'd really like to have that, but that would probably require either insanely advanced coding expertise for a modder or for big T to make it himself.

I'm going to... increase their body parts hp. That's it. Invincible as in take few shots in the arms without losing goddamned body parts.

I don't think it will affect their hunting aspect, as I'm not planning to increase their damage. Though if you make them follow you they could helped you survive.

[Madman666]

Well, I see no harm in trying. I still don't like melee at all and speeding cooldowns either depending on quality or on skill in my opinion won't make it much better and fun to use, but it would be better than it is now. I still hope T will overhaul it completely at some point.

Buffing animal parts could be nice, since you did buff human parts already, so combat pets actually will spend more time with all their bodyparts in place instead of being a consumable, that works pretty much for one fight. I'll still dream of dodges, blocks and pounces, but that could be a start.

[Robloxsina66]

or we just add the damage just like combat realism

[Aristocat]

Hmm, am I the only noticed pawns sometimes drop die from "blood loss" even though they lost only 40%-60% blood? It seems it happens because blood loss reduce conscious and pawns die if conscious hit 0. This doesn't happen unless pawn already lost some conscious from other means and I think this bug exist in vanilla as well. I fixed it by adding setmax, instead of offset. Will released along with tougher animal.

[marvin__]

Is MFO supposed to use so much RAM? While normally the game takes about 800MB of RAM with the MFO enabled it jumps to 1.5GB, I alse get a massive performance decrease

[Madman666]

Its not a bug really, its vanilla game mechanism to prevent rapid overpopulation of colonies, by having ~60% to kill any pawn thats not related to the colony upon being downed with whatever reason (bloodloss, leg shot off etc.), I am sure you know that.

[Aristocat]

Its not a bug really, its vanilla game mechanism to prevent rapid overpopulation of colonies, by having ~60% to kill any pawn thats not related to the colony upon being downed with whatever reason (bloodloss, leg shot off etc.), I am sure you know that.

No this is difference. That mechanic kill off pawns when they are non-colonist and happen when downed. This one kills when blood loss reaches 40%, and only when you have other diseases that reduce consciousness, probably due to conscious loss stacks on top of each other.

Is MFO supposed to use so much RAM? While normally the game takes about 800MB of RAM with the MFO enabled it jumps to 1.5GB, I alse get a massive performance decrease

That's odd. Mine uses 1.5GB regardless of MFO and VE-CO, although I used lots of mods.

[Madman666]

Wow, that is a strange bug you found then. I honestly can't remember if I ever encountered it. I had many cases of blood loss more than 40%, but I don't remember if it killer anyone with another disease. You're probably thinking right - consciousness penalties stack and can easily kill a person, like major disease with a smokeleaf high and bloodloss and etc. It was probably overstacked to consciousnees 0%.

[Aristocat]

What does this mod lacks? Or is it the state of perfection? Did anyone even played it? It's updated 2 days ago btw, or was it 3.

I've read Madman's reply in EPOE, and I think one way to make super soldier is to reduce pain torso take and increase organ hit chance, so when you replace organs with synectics you become totally awesome, no bleeding no pain hulk. If you want really space marine like hulk you'll also need to increase all bodyparts hp by 4 - 6 times as well.

I think one thing lacks with the mod is that there is no cool battle pictures in the thread.

[Madman666]

That'll be just unbalanced insanity with such big increases to hp. What I wanted is just a totally non-bleeding colonist by replacing all bodyparts, who can be, when downed, just brought in hospital, damaged parts set and quickly heal. What I'd really like is some sort of armor value built-in to artificial bodyparts, but that can't be done because game mechanics reasons, sadly. I do like EPOE to the point I can't play without it, because it allows reanimating deadwight colonists back by curing disabilities))

I played with your mod a bit, but not enough to offer more suggestions - It was an end of the month and there was crapton of work to be done ASAP.

[Aristocat]

That'll be just unbalanced insanity with such big increases to hp. What I wanted is just a totally non-bleeding colonist by replacing all bodyparts, who can be, when downed, just brought in hospital, damaged parts set and quickly heal. What I'd really like is some sort of armor value built-in to artificial bodyparts, but that can't be done because game mechanics reasons, sadly. I do like EPOE to the point I can't play without it, because it allows reanimating deadwight colonists back by curing disabilities))

I played with your mod a bit, but not enough to offer more suggestions - It was an end of the month and there was crapton of work to be done ASAP.

You can decrease pain and bleed injuries in torso cause by 1/3 and instead put it on organs, so when you replace organs you no longer bleed or feel pain as much.

I think there might be other ways, how about dividing torso by 5 parts, but these torso parts doesn't have linked body parts so they can be replaced?

[Madman666]

You can decrease pain and bleed injuries in torso cause by 1/3 and instead put it on organs, so when you replace organs you no longer bleed or feel pain as much.

I think there might be other ways, how about dividing torso by 5 parts, but these torso parts doesn't have linked body parts so they can be replaced?

I don't really know much about how whole bodypart system works, there are some limits like you can't increase health on bionic parts without raising normal part's hp or you can't add armor to them and etc. I don't even know if you can divide torso like that at all. I just like that bionic parts don't bleed and don't cause pain when hit (at least I think they don't cause pain...). Now you can change pretty much everything and EPOE's options are vast - you can pretty much make full android... BUT. Torso still squishy and it has ~30% of being hit out of all parts pawn has it the biggest chance obviously enough. And you can't replace it, without auto deleting all thats attached to it as Ykara said at EPOE's thread. And even if you counter it by somehow dividing torso onto parts you can change - I can't imagine how to do that.

To make a non-bleeding robot pawn I want to have, you'd have to redirect torso's hit chance to some new bionic parts you can install. And changing hit chance will obviously mess with vanilla bodypart system and as such will be incompatible with everything related to bodypart modification including EPOE, which I can't play without)) I think in this case the best we can hope for - is that in future Alphas big T opens up more of the game code in xmls, making it more flexible for us to play around with.

[Derp]

What does this mod lacks? Or is it the state of perfection? Did anyone even played it? It's updated 2 days ago btw, or was it 3.

I have not played it.  The increased pain sounds very promising*, but bleeding out is already too much of a problem, considering that A) doctors don't factor it in when prioritizing wounds to treat, B) there's no quick way to treat downed enemies, and C) even if there were, the "innocent prisoner died/patient died in my care" morale loss is considerable and long lasting.

*BTW, would it be possible to mod in increased pain for untreated wounds, roughly-vanilla pain for bandaged wounds, and greatly reduced pain for permanent injuries?  Scars and old gunshots have the opposite problem, in that they can be quite debilitating for no good reason at all.

[Aristocat]

What does this mod lacks? Or is it the state of perfection? Did anyone even played it? It's updated 2 days ago btw, or was it 3.

I have not played it.  The increased pain sounds very promising*, but bleeding out is already too much of a problem, considering that A) doctors don't factor it in when prioritizing wounds to treat, B) there's no quick way to treat downed enemies, and C) even if there were, the "innocent prisoner died/patient died in my care" morale loss is considerable and long lasting.

*BTW, would it be possible to mod in increased pain for untreated wounds, roughly-vanilla pain for bandaged wounds, and greatly reduced pain for permanent injuries?  Scars and old gunshots have the opposite problem, in that they can be quite debilitating for no good reason at all.

I think problem with not increasing bleeding is that this mod already decrease difficulty considerably. I'm 3 years in and not even single colonist died from torso destruction because all of them downed before that happens, and without bleeding, pawns will be practically invincible. Though, I felt thrice bleeding really went too much and I will consider release no increased bleeding version as well.

This mod doesn't increase pain from scars but I can reduce them further.

You can decrease pain and bleed injuries in torso cause by 1/3 and instead put it on organs, so when you replace organs you no longer bleed or feel pain as much.

I think there might be other ways, how about dividing torso by 5 parts, but these torso parts doesn't have linked body parts so they can be replaced?

I don't really know much about how whole bodypart system works, there are some limits like you can't increase health on bionic parts without raising normal part's hp or you can't add armor to them and etc. I don't even know if you can divide torso like that at all. I just like that bionic parts don't bleed and don't cause pain when hit (at least I think they don't cause pain...). Now you can change pretty much everything and EPOE's options are vast - you can pretty much make full android... BUT. Torso still squishy and it has ~30% of being hit out of all parts pawn has it the biggest chance obviously enough. And you can't replace it, without auto deleting all thats attached to it as Ykara said at EPOE's thread. And even if you counter it by somehow dividing torso onto parts you can change - I can't imagine how to do that.

To make a non-bleeding robot pawn I want to have, you'd have to redirect torso's hit chance to some new bionic parts you can install. And changing hit chance will obviously mess with vanilla bodypart system and as such will be incompatible with everything related to bodypart modification including EPOE, which I can't play without)) I think in this case the best we can hope for - is that in future Alphas big T opens up more of the game code in xmls, making it more flexible for us to play around with.

I don't think it would really cause incompatibilities. You might need copy installing exoskeleton.xml and add new torsoes but I think that would be it. This mod change coverage but it works perfectly fine with EPOE for instance. It might be incompatible with save though, because new bodies.

[Madman666]

I don't think it would really cause incompatibilities. You might need copy installing exoskeleton.xml and add new torsoes but I think that would be it. This mod change coverage but it works perfectly fine with EPOE for instance. It might be incompatible with save though, because new bodies.

Well, then we should post this idea to EPOE's author to see if he's willing to implement something like that. By the way - if you wanna increase the amount of people playtesting your mods - I suggest Steam Workshop if you have access.