Started by Aristocat, February 25, 2017, 04:18:56 AM
Updated to A17.Chance to hit bones i.e. pelvis has been increased.Blood and Pain 1.02Fixed : Blood loss no longer kills pawn with conscious loss debuff i.e. diseases.Decreased blood loss rate of missing body part a bit.Blood and Pain 1.01Reverted go-juice
Quote from: Madman666 on February 25, 2017, 04:34:22 AMWhy did you nerf go-juice to 80%? Its too useless with 20% pain reduction. In vanilla it multiplies pain by 10%, effectively reducing it by 90% and making an armored terminator out of a meat sack. In your version - by x80%, reducing it by 20%. Who needs that with 10% addiction rate?Otherwise kinda interesting overhaul, will try it out, to see which I like more)
Quote from: Aristocat on February 25, 2017, 04:41:29 AMI think you get it opposite; it's buffed. Note 5th picture. She's bleeding from every single body parts, yet just punched a power armored colonist down. Although She died right after the picture, from destroyed torso.
Quote from: Madman666 on February 25, 2017, 04:50:25 AMEhm, then you might want to word it differently in description. Because vanilla go-juice doesn't reduce pain by 10%. It multiplies pain by 0.1 (same 10%) lowering it by 90%. If in your version it reduces pain by 80% - that's a nerf. Not as big as it sounds like on the first look though.Also 2-3.5 hours till death on the average? Wow. I foresee lots of whining, some people can't even save prisoners that have like 6-10 hours, because there is just so much stuff happening with raids.
Quote from: Aristocat on February 25, 2017, 04:55:02 AMQuote from: Madman666 on February 25, 2017, 04:50:25 AMEhm, then you might want to word it differently in description. Because vanilla go-juice doesn't reduce pain by 10%. It multiplies pain by 0.1 (same 10%) lowering it by 90%. If in your version it reduces pain by 80% - that's a nerf. Not as big as it sounds like on the first look though.Also 2-3.5 hours till death on the average? Wow. I foresee lots of whining, some people can't even save prisoners that have like 6-10 hours, because there is just so much stuff happening with raids.I think vanilla go juice reduce pain by only 10%, at least it looks like that in code.4 hours death encourages aggressive tactics, either that or use mace since it doesn't cause the bleed, mace is bit op now, though.
Quote from: Madman666 on February 25, 2017, 05:02:35 AMIf you seen how go-juice works - you'll know you're wrong - when a pawn is on go-juice it receives only 10% of pain of his injuries. It basically can't go down at all untill someone shots off its leg or destroys critical organs like heart, brain or liver. And if its also armored - it becomes a nightmare to take down. Early game those pirates with helmets and armor vests on go-juice are very high threat.The code says <painFactor>0.1</painFactor>. That obviously means pain is set to 0.1 of its original value. Thats 90% reduction. If you don't believe me - use dev mode, make a pawn injured and use go-juice. You'll see how pain factor changes live.
QuoteAnd as for bleed I am not talking about prisoners really, though they will become a luxury as you'll need to have like 2-3 docs on stand by to not lose anyone from your own town, not talking about trying to save someone from raiders. 4 hours is way too harsh.
Quote from: Aristocat on February 25, 2017, 05:20:50 AMWhich encourages dynamic tactics. If your colonist is downed immediately rescue them and retreat if you're too much outnumbered, either that or buy and train animals to rescue.Also, the faster the pawn is downed the less overall wound it receive, which means quicker treatment. With my play testing it didn't felt 1/6 of a day is too harsh, rather 10 hours in vanilla was ridiculous because raiders sometimes just "got better" and they just woke up and leave if you don't capture them.As for EPOE I think incompatibility is rather harmless; ribs will show as rib instead rib 1,2 etc.
Quote from: Madman666 on February 25, 2017, 05:33:53 AMWhile I agree, that a pawn punched full of holes shouldn't lie there for 10 hours straight (its hilarious really), 4 hours is more logical, but also... well just its too harsh. The compromise would be around 5-7 hours at least. You know we are always outnumbered in this game, right? And with pain bringin us down faster - it plays to advantage for outnumbering force more than to our side. I can already see what I'll do playing with 4 hour threat - I will turtle like hell, preventing any of my pawn's precious liquids draining out at all. When a pawn has like 1.4-2 hours to die... Well I usually say screw it - I won't be able to carry it to bed anyway. So I think it'll promote turtling even more, on the contrary to your main goal of making people fight more aggressively. Just too many enemies and too easy to bleed out.The main problem with EPOE is that it adds more hard bionics with increased hp on parts. And your new hp for parts pretty much evens it out to an extent - there won't be any hp upgrade, when you install bionic arm for example. Aside from non bleeding of course. Its fine if it works nicely otherwise, I think it calls for a part hp patch for EPOE though to balance it out.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on February 25, 2017, 06:12:25 AMThis looks like an interesting mod, but the fact that people will typically die in the ballpark of 4 hours - which is somewhat more realistic, but from a gameplay perspective as others mentioned; the fact it's a tad on the fast side - is somewhat offputting.Another question that comes to mind is "what about animals?": although people have been buffed, animals haven't, so they'll go down quicker than ever. This is mainly because animals like thrumbos are going to go down in a pinch, and thrumbos are supposed to be very difficult to take down, which'll make thrumbo killing feel less rewarding overall. I'd suggest bumping the health scale for each animal by 1.5x to fit in line with a person's buff overall.
Quote from: Aristocat on February 25, 2017, 06:17:52 AMI actually found this mod easy, or rather forgiving. In vanilla colonists dies like flies. With this mod and extreme difficulty I never had single colonist dies unless I abandoned them, or caught an infection. I still used save scum, however. Colony wipe-out is most common lose scenario with this mod, as although they are downed and survived that doesn't mean raiders won't capture them.Without bleeding, I afraid game would be rather cakewalk.People hasn't really buffed, everything downs twice faster including people. And as for thrumbo your colonist will also downed twice faster by thrumbo if you let it attack, so I think the difficulty would remain same, unless you cheese it to death and never get attacked.I think it's better this way since it means they'll be less likely dies and just downed if they are colonist's side.
Quote from: Madman666 on February 25, 2017, 06:32:18 AMWow, quite strange experience really. My colonists mostly only die to unlucky sniper or charge lance shot that landed right (heart, liver, brain, yep). Otherwise they always survive badly crippled, but alive and mostly usable for work even. Prisoners however die from bleeding quie often for me because while I tend to my own people too much time passes. With a pawn bleeding in literally two hours with only 2 heavy wounds I'd say I'll probably never get any prisoners at all, until I set up fully atomated boring defense, that'll free my doctors to be able to haul some meat and patch it up in time. I am not sure if I am up for it to live that long only relying on joined wanderers or saved ecapees from pods.
QuoteI completely disagree with Thrumbo being as same disadvantage then colonists - it has only melee attack, so you have twice the chance to bring it down or kite it long enough for it to don't any damage at all. Scheme of two shooting\one kiting can bring Thrumbo down even with initial pistol and survival rifle if you got fastwalker pawn or if you are lucky enough to hit thrumbo in the legs with first couple of hits. With it going down twice as fast... well I'd say it'll be as good as an exploit.
Quote from: Madman666 on February 25, 2017, 06:51:34 AMTending with industrial meds actually patches up 2-3 wounds at a time, so even if there is less wounds, tending time depends mostly on skill and its usually crap in early game, when you actually need prisoners.