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Author Topic: [A17] VE-CO. Vanilla Friendly Combat Overhaul - Updated to A17  (Read 20708 times)

Aristocat

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[A17] VE-CO. Vanilla Friendly Combat Overhaul - Updated to A17
« on: February 25, 2017, 04:18:56 AM »

Vanilla Enhanced - Combat Overhaul. VE-CO



Description:

VE-CO try to reduce frustratingness of combat by increasing survival rate of colonists while decreasing ever tedious permanent injury.

Although goal of this mod isn't realism, realistically a person wouldn't fight until their torso is completely destroyed, bleeding out is most common cause of death and I think these mods archived realism fairly well.

In a way this is basically mini-Combat Realism mod except these mods doesn't touch weapons and should be compatible with almost everything.



All four are separated independent mods and you can play as you like.



Features:

Blood and Pain 300%/200%/Vanilla:

- Injuries cause bleeding + 200%/100%/0%(No change) more severe. Total 300%/200%/100%(Vanilla).

- Injuries cause twice more pain and thrice for blunt wounds. (ex, bruises).

- Blood loss causes pain and more severe conscious lose.

- Punctured organs now cause 200%/100%/0%(No change) more severe bleeding. (In vanilla, punctured kidney, lungs and liver etc doesn't cause additional blood loss, only heart and neck does.)

- Less bleeding and vanilla bleeding versions are also available. I recommend 200% or vanilla version as A17 made bleed recover slower and 300% version gets quite hardcore.



Click to see large image.



Better Body Damage Distribution :

- Hit chance(coverage) of the torso has been increased.

- Legs and arms are less likely hit and shoulders are more likely hit.

- Shoulders are now considered torso by armor and protected by bullet vest.

- Attacks that hit body are more likely puncture organs and bones.

- Coverage of eyes, hands, feet, fingers and toes has been significantly decreased.




Tougher Body :

- Hit point of most body parts has been increased by 30% to 50% exception to head and organs.

- Torso 40 to 60. Arms and Legs 30 to 40. Hands and feet 20 to 30. Bones(Radius, pelvis, femur and tibia.) 25 to 35.


Tougher Animals :

- Hit point of most body parts of animals has been increased except head and organs.

- Body 40 to 70. Legs 30 to 50. Paws and hoofs 10 to 40. Further modified by health scale.

- Healthscale, Bodysize and Drawsize of Wolves and Wargs increased.

- Insects does not benefit from changes above.







Feature Overview :

- Colonists are more likely survive and less likely lose body parts, but more likely dies from blood loss if not treated quick enough. Most dies within 2 to 4 hours depend on injuries(3 to 8 hours with 200%).

- Aggressive tactic is more encouraged as dragged out fight become more and more dangerous as your colonists will bleed out to death while you will less likely capture prisoners.

- Attacks that hit body are more likely puncture and deal additional damage to organs and bones, cause more pain and therefore less likely dies, but cause more bleeding.

- As bleeding and pain are caused by the damage an injury dealt, having armor such as bullet vest are incredibly important.

- Battles are shorter and more decisive. Pawns are no longer bullet sponges that can soak up dozens of bullets before goes down.

- Melee is more viable as the risk of permanent injury is lower and raiders go down quicker, thus take less hit. Also, Personal Shield is relatively stronger, or rather everyone(except mechs) are weaker.

- Raiders are more likely incapped if you can capture them before they bleed out.

- Relatively, mechanoids are stronger as they don't feel pain or bleed. Tribes, insects, and manhunter packs are somewhat weaker, although they are still deadly if you let them engage in close range without the melee weapons.

- Hunts are shorter as most things go down with 2 to 5 bursts, depend on the gun.

- If you have full bionic colonist or any mod that allows you to craft mechs they make incredible fighters as they don't bleed nor feel pain.

- Go juice makes extremely deadly soldiers, but beware it does not save them from death, only pain.

- If you want the challenge start with the scenario that spawns raiders with high on go-juice in the Forced health condition. Even 30% of drugged raiders will make the game extremely difficult.

- Trained animals are more useful as they are less likely die as well. Animals trained to rescue will prove to be very valuable(Though honestly, I found animals AI doesn't rescue well, and rather useless.). Wolves are bigger.

Comparison :



Vanilla : Pawns are basically bullet sponges and take dozens of shot to down. Permanent injury is far too common. Bleeding is pretty much none existence.


Download:

Load order : Load these mods last.

Please download only one Blood and pain, either 300%/200%/Vanilla bleeding version.

Blood and Pain 300%  v1.03

Blood and Pain 200%  v1.03

Blood and Pain Vanilla bleeding  v1.03

Download only one BBDD, either EPOE or None EPOE version.

Better Body Damage Distribution  v1.01

Better Body Damage Distribution EPOE Compatible  v1.01


Tougher Body  v1.01

Tougher Animals  v1.0 Not updated yet.

Github

Known issues:

Please report any bugs, oddities or suggestions.

Incompatibilities:

It should be save compatible and can be removed from save.

Please report any incompatibilities.

LICENSE :

You can do whatever you want with mods as long as you credit the original author.


Change log :
Code: [Select]
Updated to A17.
Chance to hit bones i.e. pelvis has been increased.

Blood and Pain 1.02
Fixed : Blood loss no longer kills pawn with conscious loss debuff i.e. diseases.
Decreased blood loss rate of missing body part a bit.

Blood and Pain 1.01
Reverted go-juice
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 03:29:27 PM by Aristocat »
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Madman666

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2017, 04:34:22 AM »

Why did you nerf go-juice to 80%? Its too useless with 20% pain reduction. In vanilla it multiplies pain by 10%, effectively reducing it by 90% and making an armored terminator out of a meat sack. In your version - by x80%, reducing it by 20%. Who needs that with 10% addiction rate?

Otherwise kinda interesting overhaul, will try it out, to see which I like more)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 04:37:11 AM by Madman666 »
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Aristocat

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2017, 04:41:29 AM »

Why did you nerf go-juice to 80%? Its too useless with 20% pain reduction. In vanilla it multiplies pain by 10%, effectively reducing it by 90% and making an armored terminator out of a meat sack. In your version - by x80%, reducing it by 20%. Who needs that with 10% addiction rate?

Otherwise kinda interesting overhaul, will try it out, to see which I like more)

I think you get it opposite; it's buffed. Note 5th picture.

She's bleeding from every single body parts, yet just punched a power armored colonist down. Although She died right after the picture, from destroyed torso.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 04:45:24 AM by Aristocat »
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Madman666

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2017, 04:50:25 AM »


I think you get it opposite; it's buffed. Note 5th picture.

She's bleeding from every single body parts, yet just punched a power armored colonist down. Although She died right after the picture, from destroyed torso.

Ehm, then you might want to word it differently in description. Because vanilla go-juice doesn't reduce pain by 10%. It multiplies pain by 0.1 (same 10%) lowering it by 90%. If in your version it reduces pain by 80% - that's a nerf. Not as big as it sounds like on the first look though.

Also 2-3.5 hours till death on the average? Wow. I foresee lots of whining, some people can't even save prisoners that have like 6-10 hours, because there is just so much stuff happening with raids.
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Aristocat

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2017, 04:55:02 AM »

Ehm, then you might want to word it differently in description. Because vanilla go-juice doesn't reduce pain by 10%. It multiplies pain by 0.1 (same 10%) lowering it by 90%. If in your version it reduces pain by 80% - that's a nerf. Not as big as it sounds like on the first look though.

Also 2-3.5 hours till death on the average? Wow. I foresee lots of whining, some people can't even save prisoners that have like 6-10 hours, because there is just so much stuff happening with raids.

I think vanilla go juice reduce pain by only 10%, at least it looks like that in code.

4 hours death encourages aggressive tactics, either that or use mace since it doesn't cause the bleed, mace is bit op now, though.

Madman666

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2017, 05:02:35 AM »

Ehm, then you might want to word it differently in description. Because vanilla go-juice doesn't reduce pain by 10%. It multiplies pain by 0.1 (same 10%) lowering it by 90%. If in your version it reduces pain by 80% - that's a nerf. Not as big as it sounds like on the first look though.

Also 2-3.5 hours till death on the average? Wow. I foresee lots of whining, some people can't even save prisoners that have like 6-10 hours, because there is just so much stuff happening with raids.

I think vanilla go juice reduce pain by only 10%, at least it looks like that in code.

4 hours death encourages aggressive tactics, either that or use mace since it doesn't cause the bleed, mace is bit op now, though.

If you seen how go-juice works - you'll know you're wrong - when a pawn is on go-juice it receives only 10% of pain of his injuries. It basically can't go down at all untill someone shots off its leg or destroys critical organs like heart, brain or liver. And if its also armored - it becomes a nightmare to take down. Early game those pirates with helmets and armor vests on go-juice are very high threat.

The code says <painFactor>0.1</painFactor>. That obviously means pain is set to 0.1 of its original value. Thats 90% reduction. If you don't believe me - use dev mode, make a pawn injured and use go-juice. You'll see how pain factor changes live.

And as for bleed I am not talking about prisoners really, though they will become a luxury as you'll need to have like 2-3 docs on stand by to not lose anyone from your own town, not talking about trying to save someone from raiders. 4 hours is way too harsh. Also a question, since your mod increases bodypart HP will it work with EPOE for example?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 05:15:17 AM by Madman666 »
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Aristocat

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2017, 05:20:50 AM »

If you seen how go-juice works - you'll know you're wrong - when a pawn is on go-juice it receives only 10% of pain of his injuries. It basically can't go down at all untill someone shots off its leg or destroys critical organs like heart, brain or liver. And if its also armored - it becomes a nightmare to take down. Early game those pirates with helmets and armor vests on go-juice are very high threat.

The code says <painFactor>0.1</painFactor>. That obviously means pain is set to 0.1 of its original value. Thats 90% reduction. If you don't believe me - use dev mode, make a pawn injured and use go-juice. You'll see how pain factor changes live.

It appears you're right, but then again as the screenshot shows it's enough to make a pawn total berserker. I'll buff it back though in next update.

Quote
And as for bleed I am not talking about prisoners really, though they will become a luxury as you'll need to have like 2-3 docs on stand by to not lose anyone from your own town, not talking about trying to save someone from raiders. 4 hours is way too harsh.

Which encourages dynamic tactics. If your colonist is downed immediately rescue them and retreat if you're too much outnumbered, either that or buy and train animals to rescue.

Also, the faster the pawn is downed the less overall wound it receive, which means quicker treatment.

With my play testing it didn't felt 1/6 of a day is too harsh, rather 10 hours in vanilla was ridiculous because raiders sometimes just "got better" and they just woke up and leave if you don't capture them.

As for EPOE I think incompatibility is rather harmless; ribs will show as rib instead rib 1,2 etc.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 05:23:46 AM by Aristocat »
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Madman666

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2017, 05:33:53 AM »

Which encourages dynamic tactics. If your colonist is downed immediately rescue them and retreat if you're too much outnumbered, either that or buy and train animals to rescue.

Also, the faster the pawn is downed the less overall wound it receive, which means quicker treatment.

With my play testing it didn't felt 1/6 of a day is too harsh, rather 10 hours in vanilla was ridiculous because raiders sometimes just "got better" and they just woke up and leave if you don't capture them.

As for EPOE I think incompatibility is rather harmless; ribs will show as rib instead rib 1,2 etc.

While I agree, that a pawn punched full of holes shouldn't lie there for 10 hours straight (its hilarious really), 4 hours is more logical, but also... well just its too harsh. The compromise would be around 5-7 hours at least. You know we are always outnumbered in this game, right? And with pain bringin us down faster - it plays to advantage for outnumbering force more than to our side. I can already see what I'll do playing with 4 hour threat - I will turtle like hell, preventing any of my pawn's precious liquids draining out at all. When a pawn has like 1.4-2 hours to die... Well I usually say screw it - I won't be able to carry it to bed anyway. So I think it'll promote turtling even more, on the contrary to your main goal of making people fight more aggressively. Just too many enemies and too easy to bleed out.

The main problem with EPOE is that it adds more hard bionics with increased hp on parts. And your new hp for parts pretty much evens it out to an extent - there won't be any hp upgrade, when you install bionic arm for example. Aside from non bleeding of course. Its fine if it works nicely otherwise, I think it calls for a part hp patch for EPOE though to balance it out.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 05:39:44 AM by Madman666 »
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XeoNovaDan

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2017, 06:12:25 AM »

This looks like an interesting mod, but the fact that people will typically die in the ballpark of 4 hours - which is somewhat more realistic, but from a gameplay perspective as others mentioned; the fact it's a tad on the fast side - is somewhat offputting.

Another question that comes to mind is "what about animals?": although people have been buffed, animals haven't, so they'll go down quicker than ever. This is mainly because animals like thrumbos are going to go down in a pinch, and thrumbos are supposed to be very difficult to take down, which'll make thrumbo killing feel less rewarding overall. I'd suggest bumping the health scale for each animal by 1.5x to fit in line with a person's buff overall.

That leads onto another question: "What about if I'm running other mods which add new races to the game?"
This is more trivial than anything as one could just get the manual installation versions of these sorts of mods as opposed to workshop if that's the option, and just tweak HealthScale on there, as Workshop version will overwrite those changes once the item gets updated.

But then again, this is promoted as 'vanilla friendly', suggesting it may not be optimal to use with mods that introduce new races, although it's an easy fix (just like tweaking the A Dog Said EPOE Patch to work with EPOE 2.0)
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My mods - Turret Extensions, Adjustable Predator Count, Profitable Weapons and various other goodies

Aristocat

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2017, 06:17:52 AM »

While I agree, that a pawn punched full of holes shouldn't lie there for 10 hours straight (its hilarious really), 4 hours is more logical, but also... well just its too harsh. The compromise would be around 5-7 hours at least. You know we are always outnumbered in this game, right? And with pain bringin us down faster - it plays to advantage for outnumbering force more than to our side. I can already see what I'll do playing with 4 hour threat - I will turtle like hell, preventing any of my pawn's precious liquids draining out at all. When a pawn has like 1.4-2 hours to die... Well I usually say screw it - I won't be able to carry it to bed anyway. So I think it'll promote turtling even more, on the contrary to your main goal of making people fight more aggressively. Just too many enemies and too easy to bleed out.

The main problem with EPOE is that it adds more hard bionics with increased hp on parts. And your new hp for parts pretty much evens it out to an extent - there won't be any hp upgrade, when you install bionic arm for example. Aside from non bleeding of course. Its fine if it works nicely otherwise, I think it calls for a part hp patch for EPOE though to balance it out.

I actually found this mod easy, or rather forgiving. In vanilla colonists dies like flies. With this mod and extreme difficulty I never had single colonist dies unless I abandoned them, or caught an infection. I still used save scum, however. Colony wipe-out is most common lose scenario with this mod, as although they are downed and survived that doesn't mean raiders won't capture them.

Without bleeding, I afraid game would be rather cakewalk.

Aristocat

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2017, 06:26:47 AM »

This looks like an interesting mod, but the fact that people will typically die in the ballpark of 4 hours - which is somewhat more realistic, but from a gameplay perspective as others mentioned; the fact it's a tad on the fast side - is somewhat offputting.

Another question that comes to mind is "what about animals?": although people have been buffed, animals haven't, so they'll go down quicker than ever. This is mainly because animals like thrumbos are going to go down in a pinch, and thrumbos are supposed to be very difficult to take down, which'll make thrumbo killing feel less rewarding overall. I'd suggest bumping the health scale for each animal by 1.5x to fit in line with a person's buff overall.

People hasn't really buffed(other than ridiculously weak limbs.), everything downs twice faster including people. And as for thrumbo your colonist will also downed twice faster by thrumbo if you let it attack, so I think the difficulty would remain same, unless you cheese it to death and never get attacked.

I think it's better this way since it means they'll be less likely dies and just downed if they are colonist's side.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 06:29:39 AM by Aristocat »
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Madman666

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2017, 06:32:18 AM »

I actually found this mod easy, or rather forgiving. In vanilla colonists dies like flies. With this mod and extreme difficulty I never had single colonist dies unless I abandoned them, or caught an infection. I still used save scum, however. Colony wipe-out is most common lose scenario with this mod, as although they are downed and survived that doesn't mean raiders won't capture them.

Without bleeding, I afraid game would be rather cakewalk.


People hasn't really buffed, everything downs twice faster including people. And as for thrumbo your colonist will also downed twice faster by thrumbo if you let it attack, so I think the difficulty would remain same, unless you cheese it to death and never get attacked.

I think it's better this way since it means they'll be less likely dies and just downed if they are colonist's side.

Wow, quite strange experience really. My colonists mostly only die to unlucky sniper or charge lance shot that landed right (heart, liver, brain, yep). Otherwise they always survive badly crippled, but alive and mostly usable for work even. Prisoners however die from bleeding quie often for me because while I tend to my own people too much time passes. With a pawn bleeding in literally two hours with only 2 heavy wounds I'd say I'll probably never get any prisoners at all, until I set up fully atomated boring defense, that'll free my doctors to be able to haul some meat and patch it up in time. I am not sure if I am up for it to live that long only relying on joined wanderers or saved ecapees from pods.

I completely disagree with Thrumbo being at the same disadvantage as colonists - it has only melee attack, so you have twice the chance to bring it down or kite it long enough for it to don't any damage at all. Scheme of two shooting\one kiting can bring Thrumbo down even with initial pistol and survival rifle if you got fastwalker pawn or if you are lucky enough to hit thrumbo in the legs with first couple of hits. With it going down twice as fast... well I'd say it'll be as good as an exploit. I don't really see how to fix that though, I don't think you can define different critical pain thresholds for different species in RW codes... Well, anyways thanks) the idea is quite good, so I will try it out and will post if I come up with some suggestions or feedback =)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 06:38:18 AM by Madman666 »
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Aristocat

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2017, 06:44:36 AM »

Wow, quite strange experience really. My colonists mostly only die to unlucky sniper or charge lance shot that landed right (heart, liver, brain, yep). Otherwise they always survive badly crippled, but alive and mostly usable for work even. Prisoners however die from bleeding quie often for me because while I tend to my own people too much time passes. With a pawn bleeding in literally two hours with only 2 heavy wounds I'd say I'll probably never get any prisoners at all, until I set up fully atomated boring defense, that'll free my doctors to be able to haul some meat and patch it up in time. I am not sure if I am up for it to live that long only relying on joined wanderers or saved ecapees from pods.

"...My colonists mostly only die to unlucky sniper or charge lance shot that landed right...Otherwise they always survive badly crippled, but alive and mostly usable for work even..."

...Which is frustrating and completely RNG driven.

"while I tend to my own people too much time passes."

Quicker down means less wounds overall, less time it would take for wounds.

"With a pawn bleeding in literally two hours"

Not every pawns die within two hours, some goes for 4 to 7 hours, and in worst cases, you can maces or even fist. bruises cause thrice more pain.

Quote
I completely disagree with Thrumbo being as same disadvantage then colonists - it has only melee attack, so you have twice the chance to bring it down or kite it long enough for it to don't any damage at all. Scheme of two shooting\one kiting can bring Thrumbo down even with initial pistol and survival rifle if you got fastwalker pawn or if you are lucky enough to hit thrumbo in the legs with first couple of hits. With it going down twice as fast... well I'd say it'll be as good as an exploit.

Which is called... Cheese. You're basically killing it without any harm, only faster. Also Realistically a person wouldn't able to run for hours and hours without single breath taking, at maximum speed at that.

Madman666

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2017, 06:51:34 AM »

I don't fancy going melee at fools armed with firearms, unless its an ambush where I can swarm them before they shoot, so bruises being painful doesn't help much. It actually more harms then helps, as its mostly enemies tend to swarm you with melee meat shields.

Tending with industrial meds actually patches up 2-3 wounds at a time, so even if there is less wounds, tending time depends mostly on skill and its usually crap in early game, when you actually need prisoners.

Kiting a Thrumbo called a cheese? Wow. I thought feeding it with beer and then slaughtering called cheese or building it up in a box while it sleeps and starving it to death called cheese. Yeah ok, a pawn can't run around for hours in real life. But can an animal survive several bullets to the brain or heart, like Thrumbo can? Nope don't think so.
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Aristocat

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Re: VE-CO. Vanilla friendly combat overhaul
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2017, 07:00:22 AM »

Tending with industrial meds actually patches up 2-3 wounds at a time, so even if there is less wounds, tending time depends mostly on skill and its usually crap in early game, when you actually need prisoners.

Every time a wound is sealed it stops bleeding immediately, which add hours. Have you played with mods or are these theories?


"I don't fancy going melee at fools armed with firearms, unless its an ambush where I can swarm them before they shoot, so bruises being painful doesn't help much."

Which this mods helps, since quicker down means better ambush. Either that or hit them when raiders are fleeing.

Also maces deals around three times higher than just bare fist, so unless you're outnumbered 30 to 90 situation it's not more harms.



"Kiting a Thrumbo called a cheese? Wow. I thought feeding it with beer and then slaughtering called cheese or building it up in a box while it sleeps and starving it to death called cheese."

And please explain how would it change difficulty. With kiting you take zero damage. Without kiting you take zero damage. It's already broken in vanilla, unless I increase speed of animals or give them guns so you can't do it.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 07:04:19 AM by Aristocat »
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