flammability, heat, materials and humitidy

[Locklave]

Humidity needs to be a game function like temperature. Rain forests for example, should make fire spreading nearly impossible or very slow. Humidity levels would mean no dry materials, dry materials are the thing that allows fire to spread quickly.

Fires indoors are broken. 1 fire starts and the room goes to 1000 C in 5 seconds and everyone passes out from heat stroke trying to put out a fire. Last time I had a kitchen fire my house didn't increase to 1000 C and kill me. Temperature changes in this game happen way too fast.

- Steel walls burn. This should not be a thing.

- Fire spread rate needs modifiers badly. Region/Basic Temperature/Humidity.

I find it confusing that stone is the ultimate building material considering it is the most abundant. Steel (which is limited) should not only be stronger but should also not burn.

Plasteel > Steel > Stone > Misc > Wood

Furthermore, we need insulated building materials. Think like a walk in fridge. The basic materials need different insulation values. A stone house holds heat better then a wood house. Insulated material could be a side grade, less hp value/uglier and maybe requires more then one material type. This gives people a reason to vary materials used with advantages for upgrading. Energy usage for heating and cooling springs to mind.

Or everything could just be made of marble because it's pretty and has no downside.

Anyone reading this please feel free to expand on my thoughts.

[Granitecosmos]

Humidity needs to be a game function like temperature. Rain forests for example, should make fire spreading nearly impossible or very slow. Humidity levels would mean no dry materials, dry materials are the thing that allows fire to spread quickly.

This could be easily implemented as a modifier based on the local rainfall stat which is already present in the game, as well as the local average temperature values. Just don't expect it to change hourly, that would start to hog CPU and that's not good for the game.

Fires indoors are broken. 1 fire starts and the room goes to 1000 C in 5 seconds and everyone passes out from heat stroke trying to put out a fire. Last time I had a kitchen fire my house didn't increase to 1000 C and kill me. Temperature changes in this game happen way too fast.

Every material should have a fixed maximum burn temperature based on real world values. You'd be surprised though, some wood fires can reach over 800℃. Also, apparently burning Gummy Bears can reach 1000℃ so be careful with your food stockpile.

Steel walls burn. This should not be a thing.

This was purely a balance decision to prevent players from immediately having the option to build fireproof buildings. This could also make many workstations fireproof. Stone has more building health anyway. The real question is why do plasteel walls burn?

I find it confusing that stone is the ultimate building material considering it is the most abundant. Steel (which is limited) should not only be stronger but should also not burn.

There aren't any other useful uses for stone. Trash for weapon material, takes ages to make art from, the real uses for stone is construction material. Unless you provide another good way to spend stone this will not change. It's production is also locked behind a research, denying the player from immediately having fireproof materials.

The basic materials need different insulation values. A stone house holds heat better then a wood house.

While a good suggestion on paper, it would hog considerable amouts of CPU for larger bases. Walls keep temperature just fine anyway. Use double walls if you're that hell-bent on better insulation.

Or everything could just be made of marble because it's pretty and has no downside.

Granite is better for walls anyway. Also takes longer to build stone stuff. Ever built a marble chess table? Go ahead, try it. You'll know what I mean.

Anyone reading this please feel free to expand on my thoughts.

Gotcha covered.

[Locklave]

This could be easily implemented as a modifier based on the local rainfall stat which is already present in the game, as well as the local average temperature values. Just don't expect it to change hourly, that would start to hog CPU and that's not good for the game.

I agree, I was thinking seasonally relative to rainfall/region type.

Every material should have a fixed maximum burn temperature based on real world values. You'd be surprised though, some wood fires can reach over 800℃. Also, apparently burning Gummy Bears can reach 1000℃ so be careful with your food stockpile

My concern is the rate at which these temperatures are being reached and that the room itself is what's reaching these heats. If a wood building reached 253°C it would burst into flames, as that is the burning point of it.

Fires burn at about 300°C (start burn point, can go up to almost 600°C) with wood (IRL) normally but the game seems to think those number can just be added together. So 2 of those IRL fires could make a room 600-1200°C in the game. Well at least that's how the mechanics seem to work.

This was purely a balance decision to prevent players from immediately having the option to build fireproof buildings. This could also make many workstations fireproof. Stone has more building health anyway. The real question is why do plasteel walls burn?

There aren't any other useful uses for stone. Trash for weapon material, takes ages to make art from, the real uses for stone is construction material. Unless you provide another good way to spend stone this will not change. It's production is also locked behind a research, denying the player from immediately having fireproof materials.

I don't think this balances anything. In terms of how available materials are:

Wood > Stone > Steel > Plasteel

Making steel a tier 3 building material. Yet tier 2 stone is abundant, has more hp and doesn't burn.

Stone would still remain useful for outer walls, floors and art. You could easily have stone brick production inside of the first days of landing (it's only 300 research points after all) and your limited steel supply (which can't be replaced with the ease of stone) isn't enough to make much of anything since it's needed for batteries/power/wiring/turrets/benches/ect... If I choose to go without those things to build a house, it should be flame proof. Stone is still useful for outer walls that are likely to get destroyed, nothing can compete with stone for this job.

I certainly agree about not knowing why plasteel burns, it's a star ship building material.

While a good suggestion on paper, it would hog considerable amouts of CPU for larger bases. Walls keep temperature just fine anyway. Use double walls if you're that hell-bent on better insulation.

The system already calculates temperature room by room and accounts for things like airlocks and double walls, this would simply add a final modifier. A rule could be set that the rooms insulation values is determined by is the worst material used in the walls. That would fairly realistic while avoiding hogging out on CPU power. So no 10 materials with different values insulating a room, only the worst one.

Granite is better for walls anyway. Also takes longer to build stone stuff. Ever built a marble chess table? Go ahead, try it. You'll know what I mean.

Haha I do know about the times for marble, I was farming for super high quality marble double beds. The beauty results for marble mean it could be the only thing in the room and they'd get a nice bonus. That'll gobble up the stone supplies. Steel/wood/plasteel don't compare at all in terms of value and beauty. You need gold/silver/jade to outclass stone, which is insane considering stone is basically unlimited and free.

Gotcha covered.

And I thank you sir, it's good to have someone to bounce thoughts off of.

[Granitecosmos]

Fires burn at about 300°C (start burn point, can go up to almost 600°C) with wood (IRL) normally but the game seems to think those number can just be added together. So 2 of those IRL fires could make a room 600-1200°C in the game. Well at least that's how the mechanics seem to work.

That could certainly use a revision. Wouldn't be that har either. We already have a system recognizing rooms, all that has to be done is this:

• Game recognizes there's fire in a room.
• Game checks for every object that is in the room which is on fire.
• Game checks material for these objects.
• Game determines object with highest burning temperature defined in the material's defs.
• Game sets this temperature as the maximum for the room.

High temperature rise could be balanced around this too, let's say, every fire pushes heat in the room by the material's <burningTemperature>*<staticMultiplier> every second until it reaches the maximum. Change the multiplier to fine-tune balance.

Wood > Stone > Steel > Plasteel

You won't find much wood in deserts or extreme deserts. Tundras don't provide abundant wood either. Ice sheets and sea ice have none. Only half of the playable biomes have seemingly unlimited, easily accessible wood.

Right now several materials are pigeonholed into certain niches. Stone is for building, steel is for utility, power and crafting. Almost every workstation needs steel. Most of them can't be made of stone either. The problem is that steel is rather overused. It isn't really that hard to obtain and there is a lot more steel on a map than you'd think.

Stone is indeed a lot more abundant but has more limited uses. Even for art, stone takes a lot more time to sculpt than wood or silver. Wood isn't too much different in terms of beauty either.

The research prerequisite is more like a stat check. Do you have a Research Table set up already? If you do, you can quickly finish this for fireproof material. It's not necessarily that easy, though. What if all your starting pawns have research disabled? What if they have zero research skill? Suddenly it's a lot harder to reach that 300 points. And then there are tribal starts where that 300 turns into 600.

I personally wouldn't see any problem with setting steel's flammability to zero. You're on point with sacrificing steel for building instead of all the other things one can make with steel.

A rule could be set that the rooms insulation values is determined by is the worst material used in the walls. That would fairly realistic while avoiding hogging out on CPU power. So no 10 materials with different values insulating a room, only the worst one.

But that would be such a primitive system. Oh well, I suppose it could work. But that would tip stats towards stone again. Metal is bad for insulation, after all.

[Locklave]

That could certainly use a revision. Wouldn't be that har either. We already have a system recognizing rooms, all that has to be done is this:
Game recognizes there's fire in a room.
Game checks for every object that is in the room which is on fire.
Game checks material for these objects.
Game determines object with highest burning temperature defined in the material's defs.
Game sets this temperature as the maximum for the room.
High temperature rise could be balanced around this too, let's say, every fire pushes heat in the room by the material's <burningTemperature>*<staticMultiplier> every second until it reaches the maximum. Change the multiplier to fine-tune balance.

I like the idea of it checking those things.

You won't find much wood in deserts or extreme deserts. Tundras don't provide abundant wood either. Ice sheets and sea ice have none. Only half of the playable biomes have seemingly unlimited, easily accessible wood.

Right now several materials are pigeonholed into certain niches. Stone is for building, steel is for utility, power and crafting. Almost every workstation needs steel. Most of them can't be made of stone either. The problem is that steel is rather overused. It isn't really that hard to obtain and there is a lot more steel on a map than you'd think.

Stone is indeed a lot more abundant but has more limited uses. Even for art, stone takes a lot more time to sculpt than wood or silver. Wood isn't too much different in terms of beauty either.

The research prerequisite is more like a stat check. Do you have a Research Table set up already? If you do, you can quickly finish this for fireproof material. It's not necessarily that easy, though. What if all your starting pawns have research disabled? What if they have zero research skill? Suddenly it's a lot harder to reach that 300 points. And then there are tribal starts where that 300 turns into 600.

I personally wouldn't see any problem with setting steel's flammability to zero. You're on point with sacrificing steel for building instead of all the other things one can make with steel.

Desert and tundra starts are really player picks to increase difficulty or toss a monkey wrench into normal play. So when I suggest wood is effectively unlimited I mean in a normal environment. Lol on ice sheets stone and wood are more rare then metal which can literally fall from the sky. I don't believe anything should be balanced around those extremes however.

In modern times steel is more useful then stone, stone doesn't need to have more uses anyways. You can just make bricks to sell them to merchants. Really maps are covered in piles of silver in stone form. I don't think stone could ever be not worth doing, be it cheap walls or bricks for sale. The art and stuff are icing.

I have indeed considered the Tribal start and in fact they can certainly get stone faster then normal starts despite their seeming disadvantaged research issue. More members means more research benches can be run at once, which means faster research. Tribals could easily set up the basics quickly with their greater numbers and have 3-5 people rushing stone working research.

As for for research disabled, the odds are mathematically against such events. 

A rule could be set that the rooms insulation values is determined by is the worst material used in the walls. That would fairly realistic while avoiding hogging out on CPU power. So no 10 materials with different values insulating a room, only the worst one.

But that would be such a primitive system. Oh well, I suppose it could work. But that would tip stats towards stone again. Metal is bad for insulation, after all.

Primitive is still better then none and I love this kinda mechanic. Something that rewards planning in advance and spending extra material to be more energy efficient in the long run.

Metal bleeds temperature like mad, but I'm thinking layered materials for insulation Metal/cloth/wood. Aluminium should really be a material in the game, it seems to me like "steel" is really aluminium. Aluminium burns, cough cough like the steel walls... and is used for damn near everything. But people would likely go nuts with me suggesting a new material type. If it were added however it could turn steel into a high end building material and aluminium would replace it in most bench/power/utility construction. Steel would be more like plasteel then, used in turrets and anything that needs the highest hp values. This would also stop steel from being over used for nearly every other thing.

Plasteel might be a best insulator given it's star ship material, seems like it should be. Then maybe it might be useful for something other then only weapons or the ship I never care to build.