A18

[DariusWolfe]

I'm not going to argue why the lack of warning is a problem. TheMeInTeam already made a compelling point. I will however state that the "I didn't lose a pawn since two versions ago" argument is aggravating. So, you didn't lose a pawn. Great. Other people did. Repeatedly. You just got lucky.

Lucky? I don't think any of the various mitigation tactics mentioned in this thread have anything to do with luck. They have to do with deliberate choices made to deal with a problem presented by the game. Whether or not you feel you should have to resort to those tactics is a personal choice, but to claim that people who have learned to overcome this 'got lucky' is kind of bullshit. I haven't lost a colonist to hunting animals in quite some time because I learned to compensate, to hunt them before they hunted me, to avoid overhunting the prey species so they weren't forced to hunt me. Which, quite honestly, is exactly the response that the game is trying to prompt with this event.

Further, I doubt any amount of compelling arguments made on this topic are going to change Tynan's mind, because variations on these arguments have been made many times before, and he's stated his reasoning, so this whole debacle is kind of a waste of time in a thread originally intended to discuss potential changes in the next official Alpha version.

If you don't like or don't feel you should have to compensate for a deliberate game mechanic choice, mod it out. You've pointed out an example of just such a mod. But please stop wasting time in this thread. Several attempts have been made to get this thread back on topic, but it keeps getting pulled back to the stupid animal hunting discussion. TheMeInTeam has a Suggestions thread about this, which is a much better place to discuss it, even if I don't personally feel it will be productive.

[seerdecker]

If you don't like or don't feel you should have to compensate for a deliberate game mechanic choice, mod it out. You've pointed out an example of just such a mod. But please stop wasting time in this thread. Several attempts have been made to get this thread back on topic, but it keeps getting pulled back to the stupid animal hunting discussion. TheMeInTeam has a Suggestions thread about this, which is a much better place to discuss it, even if I don't personally feel it will be productive.

It was being discussed here and I pitched in. It *is* a potential change for alpha 18, and the discussion comes up again and again for a reason. If you're sick of the discussion, skip the posts.

Now, to address the point that you brought up. Animals can spawn at any time and hunt any colonist on the other side of the map even if there's prey next to them. So, your mitigation strategies are not fit for purpose. They're micro-intensive and they have unavoidable race conditions.

[DariusWolfe]

It was being discussed here and I pitched in. It *is* a potential change for alpha 18, and the discussion comes up again and again for a reason. If you're sick of the discussion, skip the posts.

It stopped being discussed like 4 posts before; Even TheMeInTeam had moved on, probably because he started the dedicated thread I mentioned. I've also not seen Tynan go against his stated opinion often, so while you're not wrong that there's potential, I'd recommend against holding your breath. Finally, I keep checking this post to see new posts on-topic, as I checked out of this particular argument days ago; So I'm asking you, perhaps less politely than I should, to move ON, or at least discuss it elsewhere.

Now, to address the point that you brought up. Animals can spawn at any time and hunt any colonist on the other side of the map even if there's prey next to them. So, your mitigation strategies are not fit for purpose. They're micro-intensive and they have unavoidable race conditions.

All those posts you consider so aggravating argue that these mitigation strategies are in fact "fit for purpose"; i.e. they work. Many, many things in this game are micro-intensive, and the game wouldn't be all that fun for a large part of the playing populace if they weren't. Most of us don't want a self-sufficient colony that can thrive completely without our intervention (even if most of us wish the AI were a leetle smarter.

Now, I kind of think that you're completely wrong in your claim that an animal can hunt a colonist from across the map even when there's prey closer, unless you mean a manhunter Event. If you can prove that claim, then you'll have a legit bug report, because I'm fairly certain that it's not supposed to work that way.

Anyway, I am checking out of this argument again, so if you or anyone else wants to jump back on it, I can't stop you; I've said my piece, and I really hope this thread goes back to discussion of other, better topics.

[seerdecker]

Now, I kind of think that you're completely wrong in your claim that an animal can hunt a colonist from across the map even when there's prey closer, unless you mean a manhunter Event. If you can prove that claim, then you'll have a legit bug report, because I'm fairly certain that it's not supposed to work that way.

I'm fairly sure I've seen that behavior, but I'm not 100% certain, as there may have been confounding factors, e.g. animals that a predator won't accept to eat for a reason.

I tried the strategies you've described, and still got pawns eaten. It's hard to be regular as clockwork to scan all the map for hostile animals, and it's very tedious. And no, I don't want a self-sufficient colony that can thrive completely without my intervention.

The "my pawns didn't get eaten" argument discards part of the evidence. If somebody gets their car rammed by a deer, it doesn't mean they did something wrong because you happen to never have had your car rammed by a deer. It's just shit bad luck.

I'm also done with the discussion so I'll grant you your wish from then on.

[The Alien Way]

This thread seems like a good catch-all for my dreams! Here's my list so far:

Flood and earthquake, two things I've been sad about DF lacking! Earthquakes would damage/destroy/roof-collapse randomly across the map and potentially open a chasm/void, flood would basically surround (3 out of 4??) .. some edges of the map with water (could have temporary floods and rarer permanent ones from ice-cap melt events or whatever)..

Forgotten Beast generator, in honor of DF.. Eventually this could be for humans, beasts, bots, diseases, vehicles, whatever (again) :>

Search function for the item lists in the Scenario editor. Also having mod-added content text in the list be a different color from vanilla content would help with desigining scenarios that require no mods (not very important, but would be nice!)..

Add new starting backgrounds/wallpapers for the main menu screen! Could even ask the fans to submit their works. Could also just make the current planet-graphic change randomly, too :>

Allow pawns to have missing limbs?? I wouldn't mind a pawn with no arms or legs flopping onto the edge of my map.. Different wheelchairs (from basic to Professor X) could add some story-power

A way (via scenario editor) for colonists to potentially be injured during the pod landing/crash arrival..

A flag for 'Disable All Events/Incidents Unless Specified' for scenario editor (currently the only option is to disable them all individually, and there's 48 of them)

Invading shapeshifters or some other kind of disguised humanoid threat (being infested with alien hatchling-parasites could be fun too..)

The Dwarf Fort equivalent of Good/Evil biomes.. Good could contain a helpful artifact or monolith, special animals (I'm seeing an ancient protector-automaton, still functioning), healing pools.. "Evil" biomes could have active volcanoes, anomolies, be under the effect of constant weather or darkness, contain "rifts" or chasms that create NPC-enemy threats until sealed (or can't be sealed?)..

Even smaller starting map sizes, please!

Allow closer camera zoom-in (mostly for screenshots)

Colony "Ethics" or moral profiles you can choose from that defines your colonist's expectations on "how things are handled" ("Just to let you know, we'll probably eat each other if we get hungry enough.. just to let you know.."), would help with the storytelling for sure (or, my colonist getting upset by me killing a prisoner when in "my story" the colonist would actually be happy for the rest of the day for killing a prisoner, kind of breaks the evil-colony-immersion a bit)

A new "extreme" temperate biome where plant growth is so rampant that it damages/invades structures and blocks paths? Invasive plants, anyway :>



Aaaaand that's the list Some of it, most of it even, is probably repeat ideas that other people have suggested more clearly and with more detail, but I'm just throwing it out there, just in case (only recently got the game)

[Vlad0mi3r]

The possibilities are endless but what I would like to see:

1. Levelling in the tech tree to reduce the impact of certain effects/incidents. As an example being able to research levels in "Battery Efficiency" to reduce the impact of ZzzT maybe each level reducing the amount of power discharged or it only affecting one bank of batteries.

2. Bring wheel based tech into the game hand carts for haulers and wagons for caravans.

3. removal of the you have to leave now when you finish an enemy base or get ambushed. I like to setup my field hospital and get everyone healed before moving off. Also the locations always seam to be resource rich and I would like the chance to get them collected before moving off.

4. Aqua culture, marine structures and possibly marine vehicles.

[Bozobub]

I kinda doubt vehicles will be in the vanilla game any time soon but I DO like the idea of more aquatic structures, even if only bridges and such.  Perhaps a pier that can be fished from?

Frankly, I would like to see a major balance overhaul before too much more content is added, most particularly the damage location system and/or availability/manufacture of prosthetics in vanilla.

[Vlad0mi3r]

Frankly, I would like to see a major balance overhaul before too much more content is added, most particularly the damage location system and/or availability/manufacture of prosthetics in vanilla.

Yep that should have been on my list so many fingers and toes lost and lets not talk about the one with no ears (one cut off the other torn off) no nose and one eye  <--- this is not an emoji but an actual portrait of the pawn.

[TheMeInTeam]

When "micromanagement" is in the game, there needs to be meaningful decisions attached to it.  "Always manually hunt animals" is not viable logic any more than something like "always tell your pawns to rest manually" is viable logic.  Tynan's rationale on this does not and can not hold up with other mechanical implementations while being self-consistent in the framework of Rimworld.  It's his game and there's no rule implementations have to hold up to rational scrutiny, but it doesn't and the game is worse for it.

It's also not the only quality of life change the game could use.  Caravan spots is sorely needed, given the game's expectation to avoid harm to them.  It would be nice if pawns could be forced to prioritize work outside "allowed area" when ordered manually, but maybe there's an implementation hurdle there.  A better solution for the construction/crafting interchange on tasks like stone cutting would be fantastic.

And yes, fingers/toes/etc are flying way too often no matter what perspective you want to use.  Their impact on colonist productivity coupled with ease of damage create an environment where the game's incentives are lopsided against exposing pawns to direct combat, which is backwards and conflicts with a well-implemented cover + weapon stat system.

[DaGirrafeMan]

I'm slightly craving for an update on the relationship / thoughts feature.  I know that Rimworld isn't meant to be that type of game, but I'm really hoping for some more interactions between pawns. Like.. imagine if in the midst of a brawl between two abrasive colonists, one immobilizes the other. Or... possibly kills them? There'd be a wider range of story elements. The sense of trust should be added to the game. I'd also like some cute animations for these interactions. Like hugging, kissing, etc. Then again, I'm just a drama queen.   

If we can't get that as a feature, I'm completely okay with it.  The direction of Rimworld is solid right now. Keep it up, honestly! Does anybody else agree with me? The game is meant to tell stories. That'd be a neat element. Then again.. still a drama queen!

[Bozobub]

Does anybody else agree with me?

The Steam reviews seem to indicate so .

[Renegrade]

Like.. imagine if in the midst of a brawl between two abrasive colonists, one immobilizes the other.

They DO kill each other.  A social fight can end in a death, even with unaugmented pawns.  I'm not sure what you mean by "immobilize", they can cause permanent limb loss -- usually just fingers and toes, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out arms or legs have been lost in some cases.

What gets me is it seems like the non-brawlers usually win the fights between them and brawlers.

Anyhow.. my own personal dream for A18 is that the "a pawn died" sound wasn't the same as the "construction failed" sound.

[Draconicrose]

A better way to compare weapons. Honestly, even just a DPS stat would be so much more useful.

[Snafu_RW]

They DO kill each other.  A social fight can end in a death, even with unaugmented pawns.  I'm not sure what you mean by "immobilize", they can cause permanent limb loss -- usually just fingers and toes, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out arms or legs have been lost in some cases.

Try 'arrest' or maybe 'subdue' for owned-pawns. Melee with min dmg (so claws, if fitted, aren't used; scyther blades however..)

[Ragnarok]

I haven't read all these responses/ideas yet though hopefully I'll get around to reading them all in the near future. There are already plenty of different mechanics in the game so hopefully the next update will maybe add a few new mechanics but mostly focus on updating, expanding, balancing and streamlining the current mechanics. Storage, weapons, food production, bodily damage, etc.