Game balance issue

[SpaceDorf]

Yeah some people sound like they have never played a small unit tactics game at all.
( the name strategy is wrongly used in this context )

[Shurp]

Why not attack them with 6 colonists AND 6 turrets?

I have used this occasionally against ship parts, but building a wall with sandbags in front of firing points works well enough so it isn't really necessary.  It's only sieges that I have trouble with, and I too easily imagine the siegers plinking off my colonists as they set up the turrets.  But it's worth exploring for another game... right now I'm having fun with my great bow equipped tribals on a lower difficulty setting.

[Perq]

Why not attack them with 6 colonists AND 6 turrets?

I have used this occasionally against ship parts, but building a wall with sandbags in front of firing points works well enough so it isn't really necessary.  It's only sieges that I have trouble with, and I too easily imagine the siegers plinking off my colonists as they set up the turrets.  But it's worth exploring for another game... right now I'm having fun with my great bow equipped tribals on a lower difficulty setting.

Unless it is plain terrain (no terrain to hide behind), you most likely will have an option to place your turrets behind this terrain obstacle. You place them there and then lure raiders in.

[TheMeInTeam]

...
BTW I have no respect for the "animal hunts colonist" mechanic and that won't change unless either the devs or someone else can give coherent, self-consistent rationale for that implementation in Rimworld vs others.  ...

For big animals like bears, I agree there should be a notification. Kinda hard to miss something that big coming at you.

But for other animals, as annoying as it is, I think it fits. Most animals hunt by hiding while approaching their target. Maybe there should be a chance to get a notification in the case of animals that are small enough that it would be plausible for them to hide from a human. But it should be against that colonist's vision and maybe hunting skill. There should definitely still be a good chance for the colonist to fail the check the smaller the animal is.

I don't want to derail this thread too much, so if you want to make that same case on my suggestion thread that animals hunting colonists needs notification I will be happy to pick it apart .  TL;DR version is that using realism selectively in this context is incoherent to the general implementation standard in rimworld (for example if you say what you said then turn around and are okay with "cougar revenge" vs assault rifle, that's necessarily irrational)...and the second you move away from realism you've a blown mechanic (IE real-time pixel hunt).

People keep forgetting that you can actually love them around. Get creative, eh? I think this is expected on EXTREME difficulty.

Just pack 1-2 batteries with you and you're good to go. I've used this strat countless times, be it ship fragments or overly huge sieges.

You can move turrets and batteries but the range is poor and individual turret dps is abysmal.  As such these would be a distraction at best, but you'd have to expose yourself to sniper and bolt action fire just to place them.  Siege raiders have a pretty low chase distance.  You CAN sometimes plant a turret around a corner, fire at raid, then pull just 1-2 raiders into LoS of turret and shoot them while they shoot at the turret...but this has a lot of setup time and for tribes research cost that just isn't necessary to consistently defend sieges.

At that point, harassing with own sniper rifle or bolt action rifles then running when the enemy assaults is safer, and once you have mortars of your own those are safer still.  Pre-building walls for cover abuse is more in keeping with the "extreme" expectations.  It's a very low-tech solution (even tribes can toss up random walls/doors) that covers your escape and is pretty darned safe to harass the siege, while also not being very resource intensive (making this stuff out of wood is fine, you're not sustaining real gunfights out there).

[erdrik]

...
(for example if you say what you said then turn around and are okay with "cougar revenge" vs assault rifle, that's necessarily irrational)...

How is that irrational? The colonist is already shooting at the cougar. The colonist already has it in sight. If it decides to turn around and attack the colonist out of revenge it can't hide and probably isn't intending to hide, so logically you should receive a notification.

I don't want to derail this thread too much, so if you want to make that same case on my suggestion thread...

Im not going to go looking for your buried suggestion thread. You want me to post in it, give me a link.

[TheMeInTeam]

How is that irrational? The colonist is already shooting at the cougar. The colonist already has it in sight. If it decides to turn around and attack the colonist out of revenge it can't hide and probably isn't intending to hide, so logically you should receive a notification.

1.  "Real animals hide so they'd be hard to see" --> applies a certain standard for realism to how the game interacts with animals.
2.  "Animal charges into rifle fire from nearly maximum effective range after being hit by bullets" --> thoroughly tramples on the exact same standard used to establish the rationale in #1, creating self-inconsistency.

Taking a stance that #1 and #2 are both okay while using a realism standard is self-inconsistent, which is why it's not a coherent position.

If "real animals hide and attack" is the standard we're using, most animal revenge in this game vs advanced weaponry is NONSENSE, as is the ability for a fox to pose a significant threat to a person wearing clothing that drastically reduces the damage of gunfire.  You can't have it both ways.

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33553.msg343717#msg343717

[Shurp]

So I guess I will join in the predator subthread here with my own complaint: why are predators so *stupid*?

No fox or lynx in the real world is going to attack an 80kg human.  Not unless it is rabid.  One good kick from a human foot will mess it up severely.  Even mountain lions and lone wolves think twice about going after people.  We are *not* easy to kill.

Grizzlies?  Lions?  Sure, they'll jump on a human and tear them apart.  I don't mind the bigger guys going after my colonists, that at least makes sense.

I suppose one nice thing about the change to fist dps is that humans can actually beat to death weaker predators without too much trouble.  But it's sill that we have to.

[Shiny]

Well, next time you could snipe them before they build the mortars. If you don't want sieges, remember that you can always disable them for a specific scenario.

[Canute]

Don't forget your turrets and your batteries are replaceable, like replace them near the siege.

Next time assault the siege crew soon they appear.

[lt_halle]

Usually killing one or two of the siege raiders will provoke them to attack the colony. I often just send one or two guys with snipers (bolt action works in this case) to take potshots and down one or two and then retreat to the defensive line when they assault.

[The Nickman]

You have to rush sieges, attack first.  But let them finish building the mortars so you can pack them up and install them in your base, along with the shells.  Then next time you get a siege, you can bomb them back.

If done right, every time there's a siege you'll get another mortar and a bunch of shells.  By late game you might have four or five mortars just bombing the absolute crap out of any sieges.

[SpaceDorf]

I wrote this yesterday, but my provided refused to let me post it :
=========================================

You got six move able turrets and hopefully batteries .. and allready six bolt action rifles ..
how can you not take down that siege ?

I can't deside if it is more funny or sad, that as soon as the building game ( strategy is a great misnomer here .. )
turns into a small unit tactics game everybody starts flipping out and lose their mind.

How many solutions would you see, if I put you in the same scenario in a tactic shooter ?

there is terrain and there is foliage .. even though you can see every movement, line of sight is still necessary for pawns to shoot at each other.
Positioning your soldiers throughout the terrain to avoid friendly fire and stray bullets should also be a given.
I fault movies for that one .. the camera angles forces the soldiers to form the dreaded cluster-formation .. which only leads to cluster fuck .. instead of spreading out like the should in real life.

Think X-Com and Rainbow Six when in combat and you will see the game will get a lot easier.

This is a Space Game .. use the Space Key !

Also built less turrets, active guns push your defense ratio way up. ( twelve agains fourteen sounds not so outgunned ? )
Tame some meatshields to take cover behind or set the new animal area for your boomrats next to the mortars ..
you don't even have to train them ..
sniping wild animals is also a good idea .. when the deers take revenge on the nearest mortar crew ..

My current base of the 51st Greydale Pioneers, is two years old in a jungle biome on the southern hemisphere  everything is mixed up, I have no way to tell how long we are really here.
I control the central quarter of a 300x300 map, I have exactly 2 redeployable machine gun nests and 27 armed pawns.
and my dining room is still two large outdoor tables next to the kitchen freezer.
After a year my first caravan is now finally back at home, after visiting one friendly town, and about four quest maps ..
Recruiting several prisoners, the dozen elephants I tamed on the way had their first children, ..

Always remember : Losing is Fun !

( for real !!FUN!! .. look in the mod section, there are clowns, gcs zombies and every other deathwish you can think of .. )

[Shurp]

Well, that's a very odd OP...

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=34125.0

I don't know if someone is having a joke at my expense or what.

[SpaceDorf]

Oops ..

[Lys]

Uh, this is a spam bot (?) I guess. See those tiny black links? Linking to a sports betting site "ufa365.com", probably for SEO purposes.