War mask requires too much wood (50 units)

[Ser Kitteh]

This is more of a general tribal problem then it is a resource problem. Tribals in Rimworld are so utterly bonkers in terms of tech they have much difficulty in adapting to climates that's not temperate or tropics.

Tribals IRL however range from bedouins to inuit people to steppe nomads. They have hard lives yes, but they thrive in it nonetheless.

[TheMeInTeam]

You are talking about a very specific situation here. Tribal on Ice sheet. Any other location and you are looking at head armour made from basically a waste product. Anyone else sold off 1000 wood just to get it out of their stockpile.

Here is an Idea if you don't want the unique challenges that you face playing on Ice sheet then perhaps don't play on Ice sheet. Instead of suggesting a change that has absolutely no difference or impact anywhere else.

For those suggesting that the requirements for materials to build different things is way out. Think about the materials being used and how they are being used. Do you want an armour vest made out of the same material used to make corrugated Iron. Probably not if you want to stop a bullet. It is also gameplay and balance that I don't think is that far out of whack.

Tribal ice sheet is a food crunch first, second, and third anyway.  W/o cannibals or rather abusive tactics to steal/respawn huntable food the moods will get pretty bad.

[Yoshida Keiji]

You are talking about a very specific situation here. Tribal on Ice sheet.

[...]

Here is an Idea if you don't want the unique challenges that you face playing on Ice sheet then perhaps don't play on Ice sheet. Instead of suggesting a change that has absolutely no difference or impact anywhere else.

For those suggesting that the requirements for materials to build different things is way out. Think about the materials being used and how they are being used. Do you want an armour vest made out of the same material used to make corrugated Iron. Probably not if you want to stop a bullet. It is also gameplay and balance that I don't think is that far out of whack.

I remember customizing my very first tribal ice sheet game by naming my group after the Thule People. In real life. Ice sheet inhabitants live from fishing, and fishing whales nonetheless. Those people they build their huts from whale bones. So masks made from bones sounds logical for me.
I really cant wait for Tynan to put life in water.

It is really absurd to limit people minds that we can only build stuff from just wood, metal, stone and leathers. We do need more materials.

[Harry_Dicks]

Tribals IRL however range from bedouins to inuit people to steppe nomads. They have hard lives yes, but they thrive in it nonetheless.

No one is denying this. However, as I have mentioned, I get the feeling that this sort of specific flavor of "tribals" that are in RimWorld are the more tropical kind.

Maybe there will be different types of tribes later on? We could have the tropical tribals whose apparel is very appropriate for their climate, and then maybe we could have some more steppe/nomadic kind, or eskimo, whatever. As long as these tribals are very distinct from their jungle counterparts, I think it would be okay. But really, that would just be going against RimWorld's sort of concept in that there is very little, if any, overlap among things such as these.

Instead of having different tribals based upon their local climate, I could see there being more gear oriented towards different climates introduced into the game that comes at the neolithic tech level. Maybe some sort of fur coats or clothing sounds like they would be appropriate for a vanilla like feel, and it sounds like something a neolithic tribe would wear.

Tynan, give tribals some better options (for apparel and other stuff?) to deal with different climates, please!

Let's also not forget, that very early tribals always thrived more around the warmer climates, like jungles and such. This is a super generalized summary of my views, but it wasn't until later on, at least in my bigoted view of man's evolution, that the tribals were able to travel further from the equator into colder climates. This was because they wouldn't have their easy ass year round growing season, or have to worry about having no wildlife to hunt, so if they were to travel to the colder climates then they would have to actually plan and prepare for winter. The further away from the equator they went, the colder the climate, the more they would have to plan and prepare. And that's where I will stop this discussion, gentlemen, because extrapolating this line of reasoning could quickly cross into the I-will-get-banned-for-this territory

[Yoshida Keiji]

The apparel part you mention is easy to solve. I usually go with the first 5 pawns given without randomizing but for the sake of customization, when I made my group after the Thule people, I particularly looked for characters of dark color as opposed to the whitish image of Scandinavian people and while I was doing that, I noticed that even in Lost Tribe you can randomized enough to make sure all pawns start with parkas already. It is however ridiculous to expect players to tame wool bearing animals for better insulation. I certainly don't feel like having muffalos or megasloths in Ice Sheet.

[Harry_Dicks]

It is however ridiculous to expect players to tame wool bearing animals for better insulation. I certainly don't feel like having muffalos or megasloths in Ice Sheet.

That is a ridiculous that you think that a harsher climate shouldn't require it's inhabitants to have to have/take/make/whatever they need to adapt to said harsher environment.

It's completely silly. That's like saying a tribe from the jungle shouldn't need fur coats when they travel to the frigid north. Uhh, why not? Because it's not fair? Life isn't fair, and different climates will have different requirements.

[wwWraith]

In real life. Ice sheet inhabitants live from fishing, and fishing whales nonetheless. Those people they build their huts from whale bones. So masks made from bones sounds logical for me.
I really cant wait for Tynan to put life in water.

At least there are several mods adding fishing and bones for now. I think adding other materials to the masks is a good idea... but you'll not really want to wear a mask made from steel on ice sheet

It is however ridiculous to expect players to tame wool bearing animals for better insulation.

I'd say that insulation stats for furs and wool need rebalancing.

[Boston]

This is more of a general tribal problem then it is a resource problem. Tribals in Rimworld are so utterly bonkers in terms of tech they have much difficulty in adapting to climates that's not temperate or tropics.

Tribals IRL however range from bedouins to inuit people to steppe nomads. They have hard lives yes, but they thrive in it nonetheless.

Pretty much. For some reason, Tynan has this idea that Tribals don't know what a goddamn jacket and trousers are.

In Europe, clothing like trousers, jackets, shirts and the like have been made from wool and linen and hemp from AT LEAST the Bronze Age, and almost certainly earlier.

None of this nonsense about Tribals having to research "complex clothing" (snort).

Tribal technologies are really weird, to put it politely.

[Yoshida Keiji]

Lorewise, the Lost Tribe characters are just survivors from another established Colony who managed to escape an attack. So technically speaking, they were elsewhere before. To me its logical to think that tribals should have some distinction between biomes. Because if they were from a previous Ice Sheet colony and they escaped to another Ice Sheet world tile, anybody with common sense would already be wearing parkas when fleeing anyways. And this takes me to think that depending on the biome, each tribal group should start with a small variant in the technology tree. For instance, Ice Sheet tribals wouldn't have researched "Coolers" like Tropical tribals would have. And maybe have the temperate tribals already start with "Devilstrand" research completed.

Man... I would really love to see Ice Sheet tribals making a hole in the ground and holding a fishing pole, igloos blocks instead of wood maybe...and definetly the option to burn furs to fuel campfire. On the other hand, in hot climates, I know that desert people use Camel excrements as fuel too. So a little variety from biome to biome DOES make sense.

[TheMeInTeam]

Tribals IRL however range from bedouins to inuit people to steppe nomads. They have hard lives yes, but they thrive in it nonetheless.

No one is denying this. However, as I have mentioned, I get the feeling that this sort of specific flavor of "tribals" that are in RimWorld are the more tropical kind.

Maybe there will be different types of tribes later on? We could have the tropical tribals whose apparel is very appropriate for their climate, and then maybe we could have some more steppe/nomadic kind, or eskimo, whatever. As long as these tribals are very distinct from their jungle counterparts, I think it would be okay. But really, that would just be going against RimWorld's sort of concept in that there is very little, if any, overlap among things such as these.

Instead of having different tribals based upon their local climate, I could see there being more gear oriented towards different climates introduced into the game that comes at the neolithic tech level. Maybe some sort of fur coats or clothing sounds like they would be appropriate for a vanilla like feel, and it sounds like something a neolithic tribe would wear.

Tynan, give tribals some better options (for apparel and other stuff?) to deal with different climates, please!

Let's also not forget, that very early tribals always thrived more around the warmer climates, like jungles and such. This is a super generalized summary of my views, but it wasn't until later on, at least in my bigoted view of man's evolution, that the tribals were able to travel further from the equator into colder climates. This was because they wouldn't have their easy ass year round growing season, or have to worry about having no wildlife to hunt, so if they were to travel to the colder climates then they would have to actually plan and prepare for winter. The further away from the equator they went, the colder the climate, the more they would have to plan and prepare. And that's where I will stop this discussion, gentlemen, because extrapolating this line of reasoning could quickly cross into the I-will-get-banned-for-this territory

Human population spread out quite a lot before the agricultural revolution.  The tribal people in Rimworld are clearly past that point, as they can immediately spam crops like no tomorrow and utilize steel.

Note that these abilities alongside the inability to construct beds (while they can construct armchairs and cabinets...) or fashion anything other than tribalwear is *absurd* from a purely Earth historical perspective.  Even if we ignore Earth's history, some of the tribal capabilities/restrictions are just straight up not internally consistent (armchair vs bed being an excellent example of this, same with no stone cutting but immediate access to steel mining and construction).  Even rival tribal factions possess more tech than player lost tribe by a significant margin, packing equipment the player must research to attain.

[Ser Kitteh]

Right so, trying to condense the last two pages into points:

1. Tribals should get clothes that are "tribal in nature" that can stand heat and cold.
2. The war mask may need a reduction in wood cost and also should be able to use different materials.
3. Campfires and torches shouldn't self destruct when they run out of fuel.
4. The whole bedrolls/complex clothing needs to go back to the drawing board.

Anything else I'm missing?

[Yoshida Keiji]

Are you Tynan's secretary?

[Ser Kitteh]

HOW DID YOU KNOW?!?!?

[sick puppy]

ser ketteh es tenen's secretereh cenfermed xD

but yes, you got the important points

[Tynan]

Pretty much. For some reason, Tynan has this idea that Tribals don't know what a goddamn jacket and trousers are.

In Europe, clothing like trousers, jackets, shirts and the like have been made from wool and linen and hemp from AT LEAST the Bronze Age, and almost certainly earlier.

None of this nonsense about Tribals having to research "complex clothing" (snort).

Tribal technologies are really weird, to put it politely.

The tribes in RW are generally pre-bronze age. Their tech level is even named "neolithic". You'll note that the native people in America and Australia also lacked metalworking technology - not even bronze.

Heck, even medieval Europeans didn't usually wear anything as complex as a T-shirt and pants.

Anyway, about the OP, I've rebalanced a ton of things, including the production cost of war masks. I think it's 20 material now, IIRC.