We need a Trader Spot in vanilla before 1.0 release

Sirsir · June 30, 2018, 10:41:27 AM

They walk into your rooms at night, disturbing your sleep, giving you stress, watching you lovin' like a bunch of creeps.

They blame you for every stupid thing that happens to them. Not my fault you were stupid enough to wait outside my walls while a manhunter pack shreds you all. And you stepping on my trap is somehow MY fault?

I know there are mods for this but THATS NOT THE POINT! If they can hate you for their own stupidity in the base game, you need to be able to mitigate it in the base game. A simple Trader spot would allow you to solve all of these problems.

Serenity · June 30, 2018, 11:10:18 AM

Locking them out of bedrooms is one thing. That could be implemented as people locking their doors. Which would also keep out art watchers.

But a trader spot is easily abused to kill traders and steal their stuff. Either by weapons fire or some sort of heat trap. Lot of people do that already - especially on ice sheets. As a mod that's perfectly fine and I really like it (in fact a post by me inspired its creation), but putting it into vanilla isn't as simple

Ambaire · June 30, 2018, 11:35:27 AM

Quote from: Sirsir on June 30, 2018, 10:41:27 AM
They walk into your rooms at night, disturbing your sleep, giving you stress, watching you lovin' like a bunch of creeps.

Agreed, this is really damn annoying. At least stop them from wandering into living areas...

Gfurst · June 30, 2018, 11:43:45 AM

This is really needed afaik. I had issues with a caravan parking up exactly at my front door, leaving the freezing winter air in. In the worst cases trashing up your stockpile/freezer rooms.

Quote from: Serenity on June 30, 2018, 11:10:18 AM
But a trader spot is easily abused to kill traders and steal their stuff. Either by weapons fire or some sort of heat trap. Lot of people do that already - especially on ice sheets. As a mod that's perfectly fine and I really like it (in fact a post by me inspired its creation), but putting it into vanilla isn't as simple

That sounds counter productive, since having pawns of faction killed in your area reduces relationship, and eventually they just stop sending caravans at all, might even become hostile. Though I agree is a though act to balance it properly, like as opposed to loosing relationship from having visitors killed by whatever other accident may happen. Maybe if the whole caravan gets wiped out make it a drastic relationship damage?

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Sirsir · June 30, 2018, 12:43:41 PM

Quote from: Serenity on June 30, 2018, 11:10:18 AM
Locking them out of bedrooms is one thing. That could be implemented as people locking their doors. Which would also keep out art watchers.

But a trader spot is easily abused to kill traders and steal their stuff. Either by weapons fire or some sort of heat trap. Lot of people do that already - especially on ice sheets. As a mod that's perfectly fine and I really like it (in fact a post by me inspired its creation), but putting it into vanilla isn't as simple

Near as I can tell, once a trader is parked at its 'spot' in the current game you are held responsible for what happens to them. I tried to use them in .18 (with the mod) to fight a manhunter pack and lost like 90 rep. As long as that is how it works its exactly that simple, giving you the choice to either put them in a safe place, or use them to fight and risk your rep

Robc · June 30, 2018, 01:26:07 PM

+1

AileTheAlien · June 30, 2018, 01:50:50 PM

I think it'd be possible to balance against kills/steals. If you kill and steal from a caravan, that faction goes hostile, and maybe even sends a squad of enforcers, to come beat your colonists to death, and reclaim some loot. (i.e. Fairly strong, renamed raiders.)

Zombull · June 30, 2018, 03:26:12 PM

Agreed 100%. One of the many things the game really needs before release.

ashaffee · June 30, 2018, 04:36:38 PM

Yes it can be crazily abused. One time a trader parked in front of my bunker areas. Their muffalo triggered a trap and died. I got no penalty but tons of items for free. I thought it was extremely funny feature so I never reported it. But if I could manipulate it then it would make me feel compelled to control the urge of robbing them during hard times.

Ambaire · July 01, 2018, 06:15:21 AM

Quote from: Serenity on June 30, 2018, 11:10:18 AM
But a trader spot is easily abused to kill traders and steal their stuff. Either by weapons fire or some sort of heat trap. Lot of people do that already - especially on ice sheets. As a mod that's perfectly fine and I really like it (in fact a post by me inspired its creation), but putting it into vanilla isn't as simple

I would assume that this trader spot would be coded to ensure that any harm of the traders while at the trader spot would result in negative faction relations. Hence, no exploit.

jamaicancastle · July 01, 2018, 08:29:41 AM

Quote from: ashaffee on June 30, 2018, 04:36:38 PM
One time a trader parked in front of my bunker areas. Their muffalo triggered a trap and died. I got no penalty but tons of items for free.

They "fixed" that, so now whenever a faction member dies on your map, you get blamed, even if it's entirely their own fault. As long as that penalty's in place there doesn't seem to be a meaningful way to exploit traders that won't end in the faction going hostile pretty much immediately.

tyriaelsoban · July 01, 2018, 12:24:42 PM

Quote from: Serenity on June 30, 2018, 11:10:18 AM
Locking them out of bedrooms is one thing. That could be implemented as people locking their doors. Which would also keep out art watchers.

But a trader spot is easily abused to kill traders and steal their stuff. Either by weapons fire or some sort of heat trap. Lot of people do that already - especially on ice sheets. As a mod that's perfectly fine and I really like it (in fact a post by me inspired its creation), but putting it into vanilla isn't as simple

Thats really weird, in B18 when i managed to expose them to a dangerous environment by accident using the trade spot mod, they blew holes in my walls like a raider would to get out ... thats great fun when it happens in the middle of a -50 cold snap and you havnt got the bricks left to repair it.

5thHorseman · July 01, 2018, 12:35:41 PM

Quote from: ashaffee on June 30, 2018, 04:36:38 PM
Yes it can be crazily abused. One time a trader parked in front of my bunker areas. Their muffalo triggered a trap and died. I got no penalty but tons of items for free. I thought it was extremely funny feature so I never reported it. But if I could manipulate it then it would make me feel compelled to control the urge of robbing them during hard times.

Just last night I had 2 traders get *injured* (I don't even know how but maybe they stepped on a trap) and I lost 40 rep, 20 per incident. I had to give away all of my crap plus a jade statue to get that rep back. Luckily, they were at like 90 when they did it else I don't know what would have happened.

If I was able to tell them where to stand, I'd have been able to direct the to a safer area.

tyriaelsoban · July 02, 2018, 11:34:39 AM

Its entirely possible to set conditions for building/placing an object;
Rimatomics Cooling towers will not place under a roof... all you need then is to tack on some more code that says 'hey, you cant build this in an inclosed space with no doors'

cultist · July 02, 2018, 01:55:57 PM

Quote from: Serenity on June 30, 2018, 11:10:18 AM
But a trader spot is easily abused to kill traders and steal their stuff. Either by weapons fire or some sort of heat trap. Lot of people do that already - especially on ice sheets. As a mod that's perfectly fine and I really like it (in fact a post by me inspired its creation), but putting it into vanilla isn't as simple

Wasn't this already fixed? Traders mine out of areas and leave the map if you wall them in with no exit. Or did he change it back?