[1.1.2624] bulk food poison problem

Started by East, May 09, 2020, 06:07:23 AM

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East

make bulk food If the food poisoning probability takes All four foods made of bulk become food poisoning foods.

Four food make should check the probability of each food poisoning.

It is a problem that four people get food poisoning at the same time.

Canute

And why is this a bug ?
When you cook a big pot of soup, ofcouse everyone is sick from it if the cook made a mistake.


East

I'm talking about problems that arise while playing a game, not about reality. In reality It's ridiculous to be more hygienic than a legendary chef on a planet than a nutritious pasta machine.

As the bulk system is added to the game, I think that being poisoned by 4 people at the same time is an act that breaks the balance of the game and is an unintended situation during development. So I thought it was a bug and reported it.



threephi

It makes intuitive sense that if you cook four meals at once they would either all be poisoned, or all not be poisoned.

It is a separate question though whether food poisoning happens more frequently in general than it should.  According to the rimworld wiki the chance holds at 0.1% for all cooks with skill above 9, and that seems imbalanced--surely someone with 15 or 18 or 20 cooking should do better.  On the other hand, there are a lot of game systems designed to amp up the danger above what would be considered normal so this is probably intentional game balance.  For example, the wiring in my apartment with comparatively inferior technology doesn't randomly blow up, ever, but short circuits are a fairly common occurrence in Rimworld.

wwWraith

On the other hand, when the random decides that the food should NOT be poisoned, all 4 meals will NOT be poisoned. Thus it doesn't affect overall % of poisoned meals. For example, if you have 1% chance to make food poisoned, and cooking 400 meals, you'll get 4 poisoned meals in average regardless of whether you cook them 1 by 1 or in bulk.
Think about it. Think around it. Perhaps you'll get some new good idea even if it would be completely different from my words.

zgrssd

#5
Quote from: Canute on May 09, 2020, 06:29:28 AM
And why is this a bug ?
When you cook a big pot of soup, ofcouse everyone is sick from it if the cook made a mistake.
If people have worse overall performance with bulk operations (wich includes food poision chance), they will not use it.

If a feature like this is not used, it is clearly broken.

Quote from: wwWraith on May 12, 2020, 09:41:28 AM
On the other hand, when the random decides that the food should NOT be poisoned, all 4 meals will NOT be poisoned. Thus it doesn't affect overall % of poisoned meals. For example, if you have 1% chance to make food poisoned, and cooking 400 meals, you'll get 4 poisoned meals in average regardless of whether you cook them 1 by 1 or in bulk.
Indeed it does not change the math at all. It only changes how the math feels to the user.

If I know the batch is bad, why can I not automagically throw them out? Or at least manually remove them? So it should not be calculated batchwise.

wwWraith

Quote from: zgrssd on May 12, 2020, 10:18:24 AM
If people have worse overall performance with bulk operations (wich includes food poision chance), they will not use it.

If a feature like this is not used, it is clearly broken.
I never use "cheapest" stone floors. I prefer wooden ones, later changing them to "fine" stone. Does it mean that "cheap" stone floors are broken or useless? No, it's just my personal playstyle.
Personally I was using bulk cooking from several versions ago, there were mods with the same mechanics, and they were also used by many other players without such compliances. So, probably this feature is fine for most of them.

QuoteIf I know the batch is bad, why can I not automagically throw them out? Or at least manually remove them? So it should not be calculated batchwise.
Because it's your cook who should know it, not you. You are god (more or less), they are not. And their competency level (presented as poisoning chance) is what matters. You can think that they indeed try to detect and fix their mistakes while cooking (and you should be thankful that the ingridients and time are not wasted), and if the resulting food is still poisoned, it's simply because they were not able to detect it. And if you want magic, you have dev tools.
And again, of course, you can't throw out a poisoned 1/4 of the soup pot hoping that the other 3/4 should be healthy.
Think about it. Think around it. Perhaps you'll get some new good idea even if it would be completely different from my words.

zgrssd

Quote from: wwWraith on May 12, 2020, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: zgrssd on May 12, 2020, 10:18:24 AM
If people have worse overall performance with bulk operations (wich includes food poision chance), they will not use it.

If a feature like this is not used, it is clearly broken.
I never use "cheapest" stone floors. I prefer wooden ones, later changing them to "fine" stone. Does it mean that "cheap" stone floors are broken or useless? No, it's just my personal playstyle.
Personally I was using bulk cooking from several versions ago, there were mods with the same mechanics, and they were also used by many other players without such compliances. So, probably this feature is fine for most of them.

QuoteIf I know the batch is bad, why can I not automagically throw them out? Or at least manually remove them? So it should not be calculated batchwise.
Because it's your cook who should know it, not you. You are god (more or less), they are not. And their competency level (presented as poisoning chance) is what matters. You can think that they indeed try to detect and fix their mistakes while cooking (and you should be thankful that the ingridients and time are not wasted), and if the resulting food is still poisoned, it's simply because they were not able to detect it. And if you want magic, you have dev tools.
And again, of course, you can't throw out a poisoned 1/4 of the soup pot hoping that the other 3/4 should be healthy.
I can order them to burn drugs, but not meals I *know* are faulty?

I guess the implementation was just too close to teh one for Pemmican and other bulk food goods, where "one roll for the stack" makes sense. But those also provide way less nutrition/unit, so it works for them. If a 16 stack of them carries food poision, that is still only 80% hunger bar. So 1-2 eatings will have wiped out the whole bad stack.