How to bring the colonies out into the open again?

[Coenmcj]

Perhaps add another type of rock that is deeper into mountains that is harder to cut through (or better yet, requires a special tool, or dangerous explosives) so that as you get deeper in, the rock becomes harder and takes longer to mine.

There was originally Mining charges in the game, but they were rarely used for actual mining and were instead used as improvised minefields.

As for the different materials, there already is different materials strewn throughout the mountains but I'm unsure if they take different times to mine through.

[TrashMan]

It is definitely gotten easier. What hasn't changed is that mountain colonies are objectively cheaper to build.

You sure about that?

Chopping wood and making houses is faster than mining. Especially if you want to replace all the room/corridor walls with proper ones (and you should.. leaving bare rock should have an ugly enviroment penalty)

[stefanstr]

Leaving bare rock should have an ugly environment penalty, I agree, but it doesn't. And the smooth floor is the cheapest and most beautiful floor. I never build proper walls and use power conduits instead. Much cheaper and has no downsides.

[EarthyTurtle]

It does have one, time. But in the long run agreed it's not a huge deal.

Actually I was beginning to think of new ways to bring colonies out into the open (indeed was inspired by posts in the general section), how about we start some more community orientated challenges/things? I mean people seem to like them. How about We start a challenge where people make an open colony and survive using it. Video's, screenshots, story telling can be accepted.

Personally I was thinking of starting up a 'creative colony' thread. Instead of making a fortress or showing off their impressive kill zones people can work hard to make colonies that look impressive or creative. Out of the ordinary colonies and we can start showing them off. Idk maybe the transition should start with us until more solid means are created .

[stefanstr]

Not a bad idea, TinnedEpic.

[Noobshock]

There's a few problems which I'm not sure are problems individually but together they quickly narrow the range of "viable" ways to defend yourself (without getting a bunch of your colonists seriously crippled every fight).

Range trumps everything as far as I can see. I use miniguns to suppress large groups but besides that M-24 is where it's at. Because hits tend to be easily crippling or lethal (even in a full suit of armor), there's a pretty huge combat focus on avoiding fire above all else. Since your #1 concern is making sure you take the least hits possible because they are pretty unforgiving, people play hyperdefensively.

Drops inside your home are also a huge deterrent to relying too much on the outside.

A few options to alleviate that would be:

-lower the overall lethality of bullet hits, at least when it comes to crippling shots.
-make replacement parts easier to obtain (they're relatively scarce right now if your colony grows to say 15+ people)
-make recruiting/training bodies for military purposes a little bit easier (sooo many tribesmen you can't do anything with because they just won't be convinced..), so your militia is a little more disposable.
-nerf the M-24 somehow (could just make it significantly more rare/expensive, including on raiders) so combat can evolve past sniper wars.
-reduce the sheer number of raiders. the bullet spam combined with high lethality WILL make people play hyper-defensive.
-more outside defensive options so fights don't HAVE to be a bullet storm.

For the record all these impressions are from playing overwhelmingly Cassandra at normal (100%) difficulty.

It's a combination of factors making this playstyle attractive, but if I had to summarize, it's high lethality + big raider numbers (bulletstorm) + each colonist even mediocre ones are highly valuable (because not that easy to replace if they die) + M24 OP

So people hide in the mountain and setup kill boxes.

[Noobshock]

To draw a parallel to DF (and DF isn't the easiest to begin with), it's easier to keep your dwarves from dying in combat in DF, especially if they're equipped properly (in Rimworld equipment **seems** to not make things much safer, even with power armor/helmet and hyperweave/devilstrand everywhere else, it's still very common to take a crippling shot).

It's also easier to replace your guys in DF because of migrants, and the slave traders / incapacitated enemies of Rimworld are relatively scarce in comparison.

DF also has a lot more defensive tools to play with. We're still running on just walls, turrets and pewpewing colonists at this point. The biggest incentive to actively engage (besides sieges) is that there are no options for training outside of combat besides hunting.

All in all I find Rimworld a lot less forgiving when it comes to combat and replacing colonists (at least on default difficulty) and it's not surprising at all people would choose to tunnel in.

[6_Sic_6]

IMO the problem right now ,with this inside/outside colonies is based on the threats of the game.

So, we have two choices, live inside a mountain, in a cave system. Sounds cool, safe, but enclosed. Or we can start our settlement on the outside, building structures, houses, walls... Both are interesting.

Always when we start a new game (in my case), we plan where we want to be. So we have to make the choice based on the pros and cons. And right now, we can eat, sleep, grow food, get resources anywhere. The game can only scare us with large raids, mechanoids... only hostile and combat dangers. And inside the mountain, we are far safer. The fate of the colony depends on this dangers, nothing else can stop us.

Rimworld need to focus on develop more dangers, real dangers, because without raiders, mechanoids, zerg swarms of squirrels, the game it's very very easy. Less combat and more survival, focus on managing our resources, trading, diplomacy... maybe more weight on relationships between colonist.

Of course, this needs to be added without overwriting. Sometimes I want to develop a peaceful colony focused on farming and a enjoying quiet life, and sometimes I want to survive against raiders, waiting for a harder assault, preparing my defenses, healing the wounded, and praying to survive just one more day.

(Sorry for my horrible English, so much time without writing...)

[Noobshock]

The mountains could contain some secret caves with alien lifeforms inside, of course with a restriction on how many tiles "deep" so you don't immediately dig into some killer cave monster at the start of the game. Or they could be spawned by the event generator according to whatever conditions. Now that would make both the mountain base, and the game in general, more interesting

More tension when exploring and creates a need to have a security plan when digging overzealously, because you might just pop into some nasty stuff.

[6_Sic_6]

I believe we are focusing this topic on making the life underground harder, than making a interesting option living on the outside. Both ways may be right, if you add bad things inside the caves, you may think that its not so bad at all live under the sky. But give reasons to live outside it's cool too.

[Noobshock]

I think with the current state of raider numbers / ease of losing limbs even in full armor / relative scarcity of replacements for dead colonists or just parts, no matter how much "harder" you make it to go with the mountain option, a majority of people will still go for that and try to work around the extra challenges.

As I said, combat wise it's substantially less forgiving than your average raid in DF (at least if you send people out to fight), for a number of reasons.

[ShadowDragon8685]

As I said, combat wise it's substantially less forgiving than your average raid in DF (at least if you send people out to fight), for a number of reasons.

Right. Therein is the problem. Fights are ultra-deadly, enemies come in just laughably huge waves, colonists are very hard to replace. and, most damningly of all, we have no choice but to fight, because these colonists are apparently incapable of engineering a drawbridge and a moat, or of simply buying the enemies off.

Whereas in DF, you can say "Well, that looks like a huge pile of shit I don't want to have to deal with. All Dwarves inside, the doors are locked, and the drawbridges are retracted. We'll wait them out."

There are downsides to waiting out a siege in DF, of course: no outside agriculture can be conducted, trade cannot be conducted (and traders who will show up will be attacked and likely killed by the enemy, for which they will blame you uninvolved though you may have been,) migrants who arrive will be at the mercy of the enemy, etc. But the biggest upshot is that the enemy can't get in and wreck all your shit.

[Mathenaut]

Need to make outside more appealing, not just make mountains suck.  Latter won't work.

Need a better way to work down the raider scaling.  Having 20+ raiders storming your base doesn't make for wanting to hang outside and not killbox.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Need to make outside more appealing, not just make mountains suck.  Latter won't work.

This has been the entire crux of my argument. Making the mountain suck won't make people move outside. People are willing to endure any amount of suck if it's the difference between living (and sucking) and dying (maximum suck.) If the mountain becomes so sucky that it becomes impossible to survive in, people will just stop playing because fuck that noise.

[keylocke]

Right. Therein is the problem. Fights are ultra-deadly, enemies come in just laughably huge waves, colonists are very hard to replace. and, most damningly of all, we have no choice but to fight, because these colonists are apparently incapable of engineering a drawbridge and a moat, or of simply buying the enemies off.

Whereas in DF, you can say "Well, that looks like a huge pile of shit I don't want to have to deal with. All Dwarves inside, the doors are locked, and the drawbridges are retracted. We'll wait them out."

There are downsides to waiting out a siege in DF, of course: no outside agriculture can be conducted, trade cannot be conducted (and traders who will show up will be attacked and likely killed by the enemy, for which they will blame you uninvolved though you may have been,) migrants who arrive will be at the mercy of the enemy, etc. But the biggest upshot is that the enemy can't get in and wreck all your shit.

^ this.

there was a suggestion a long time ago about adding mechanisms found in DF and gnomoria. like pistons that can move walls (like minecraft secret doors), etc.

heck, even embrasures is a better option than sandbags. (i generally use sandbags like a "speed" trap anyways)

remote controlled land mines was removed 'coz they used to be OP (though not sure if it's still OP with mechs around or maybe just make normal landmines that doesn't distinguish friend or foe)