Realistic Research

Started by Kirkules, January 24, 2015, 04:04:22 PM

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Kirkules

Research direction should be more vague, unless the researcher has high enough research skill, or unless you have a colonist with a high-enough related skill to think of the idea. Or maybe you can find "lost technology manual" items to reveal a research topic to you, and maybe boost research on that particular topic.

If none of your colonists "think of an idea" then you can still research them, but you have to do "exploratory research" in one of the larger categories to discover the idea first.

Of course you'd probably want to rebalance how long it takes to research each topic.

For example, just using existing research options, it could be like:

Food Improvements
----------------------------------------------------------
- Hydroponics          (thought of by colonists with 9 growing)
- Nutrient resynthesis    (thought of by colonists with 6 cooking, 5 research)
- Fertilizer pump       (thought of by colonists with 5 growing, 5 construction)

Social
----------------------------------------------------------
- Crematorium         (thought of by colonists with 6 social, 3 construction)
- Cryptosleep Caskets      (thought of by colonists with 9 research)
- Carpet Making         (thought of by colonists with 5 construction, 4 social)
- Colored Lights         (thought of by colonists with 6 research, 5 social)

Economy
----------------------------------------------------------
- Geothermal Power      (thought of by colonists with 5 construction, 5 mining, 6 research)
- Pneumatic Picks      (thought of by colonists with 8 mining)
- Electric Smelting      (thought of by colonists with 8 craftsmanship)
- Machining         (thought of by colonists with 7 craftsmanship, 8 research)
- Tailoring            (thought of by colonists with 7 craftsmanship)

Medical/Military
----------------------------------------------------------
- Hospital Beds         (thought of by colonists with 7 Medical)
- Gun Turret Cooling      (thought of by colonists with 6 shooting, 5 research)
- Mortars            (thought of by colonists with 8 shooting)

etc.

Hiding research options like this will also make it possible to add in more powerful options with less chance of unbalancing the game, since you can control how likely or how quickly a player will be able to obtain them.

porcupine

It'd be nice if research required some material inputs as well.

I mean if you want to research hydroponics, maybe you need a variety of plants, if you wanted to research gun turret cooling, maybe some advanced weapons, etc. etc.

Kirid

I like this idea.
My input would be to do away with the research table being the only means of research. When researching nutrient resynthesis for example; It makes more sense to have the researcher walk around and inspect the dispenser, rather than standing at a table and thinking about how it could be improved. They could walk back and forth from the two. Inspect the machine, then go to the table to draw up improvements.

More examples just for the sake of it
Turret improvements: Inspects existing turrets
Hydroponics: Inspects plants growing
Colored lights: Inspects lights obviously
Geothermal generator: Inspects geothermal vents
Fertilizer pump: Inspects ground types that are infertile

Material research could be used in place of research that doesn't have a definite structure to research upon. Carpets for example could use cotton, but walking around investigating other floors might be a little silly. Hospital beds would inspect medicine; they could inspect beds, but logically that wouldn't help much.
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akiceabear

I also like the goal of this idea. 4X games are trying this now too, for example by randomizing the research tree order. I personally prefer the idea of researching in a particular direction (category) and randomly discovering a related tech. This helps reduce the rinse wash repeat syndrome that most people fall into; my impression is the recent changes to exaggerate biome play differences have a similar goal in mind...

Mathenaut

It's one thing to just arbitrarily raise the cost of research. I wouldn't call any of this more 'realistic', though. Alot of 'real' research is literally just sitting and writing.

Eleazar

Quote from: Kirkules on January 24, 2015, 04:04:22 PM
Hiding research options like this...

This is an idea commonly suggested for games with research, usually for the rational of being "realistic".  However, there's a good reason why this mechanic seldom makes it into games -- it's not very fun.  If you need Geothermal power, it is both annoying and unrealistic to discover tailoring and pneumatic picks instead.

Also since these aren't *new* inventions, but figuring out how to make known inventions, it makes sense that the course of research would be more predictable than the first time.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Eleazar on March 07, 2015, 11:32:41 AM
Also since these aren't *new* inventions, but figuring out how to make known inventions, it makes sense that the course of research would be more predictable than the first time.

^ This. Research in 4X games and what have you revolves around inventing *new* things, whereas in Rimworld all these things are already known and you just need to figure out how to make them. If you are stranded on an island and want to make a camp fire you figure out how to make a campfire. You don't conduct exploratory research into the general concept of "heat generation" only to find you now know how to build radiators.
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kingtyris

I like the idea of requiring certain skills for research. Like, it would take a level 10 doctor to design a medical pod, or a level 10 miner to research pneumatic picks. And the research skill merely makes the research time faster.

I also like adding in material requirements, and some research requiring buildings to unlock.

Kegereneku

hum...
First, I don't doubt research won't change massively when we get more contact.

Now...I can't say I'm convinced by needing skill in both research and another.

What about :
- minimum research skill for some research ? (below the limit the scientist would still improve his own skill but not advance the research)
And/or
- Multiple scientist (2/3) needed simultaneously on highest research ?

Research table to research and upgrade would be good too.
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Vagabond

Hello,

I remember making a suggestion like this in the past.

At any rate, I think I like the idea of needing person of X skill to help the researcher invent the new technology/object/ect. Maybe even multiple persons of X skill/multiples of researchers. Maybe resource requirements could fit in there.

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on March 07, 2015, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: Eleazar on March 07, 2015, 11:32:41 AM
Also since these aren't *new* inventions, but figuring out how to make known inventions, it makes sense that the course of research would be more predictable than the first time.

^ This. Research in 4X games and what have you revolves around inventing *new* things, whereas in Rimworld all these things are already known and you just need to figure out how to make them. If you are stranded on an island and want to make a camp fire you figure out how to make a campfire. You don't conduct exploratory research into the general concept of "heat generation" only to find you now know how to build radiators.

Main thing I have against this is that it assumes that just because we have a colonist with a glitter world background, that they know a damn thing about anything. Perhaps instead of research, there are simply colony skill level requirements to build/make things. In order to build item X, you need to have a colonist with X skill at 9 and X skill at 18.

Or maybe something else? Your colonies technology level is determined by colonists backgrounds, starting skills, ect. You raise technology level through research, but there are still skill requirements that lead to multiple colonist required for different parts of a task...

Not sure. I seriously think that researching needs to be more involved.

Cheers,
Michael

Kirid

After thinking about it, imo making a minimum level for any research is a not such a great idea.
All the skills besides cooking and medicine can be done by any colonist of any skill level, the only thing that changes is how fast they do the task.
Even with medicine and cooking, only success rate and quality of food is affected, and those are choices you make as a player, you can still always heal and cook.
Ultimately it just takes a freeform choice away from the player, something Tynan tends to avoid at all costs.

Setting it so you need a certain high level researcher for any particular research forces the player into a situation:
A. choose a good researcher as one of your starting colonists
B. hope you get a good researcher by chance
C. spending forever training up a researcher that is able to research the thing you want to research
Options B & C are highly unviable as are both likely to end with the colony being destroyed before you can even begin needed research. So it forces option A.
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