Unstable build feedback thread

[Tass237]

I'm wondering if there should be some function/memory to keep room assignments to various colonists when they're out in a caravan. Currently all rooms gets unoccupied the moment they leave, and when they come back they just pick whatever gets handed out to them when they look for a bed.

It's a little nitpicky, but I find it annoying to try and remember who had what room, and continuously emptying the barracks every time a caravan returns to the base.

Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?

[SchizoidCrow]

I'm wondering if there should be some function/memory to keep room assignments to various colonists when they're out in a caravan. Currently all rooms gets unoccupied the moment they leave, and when they come back they just pick whatever gets handed out to them when they look for a bed.

It's a little nitpicky, but I find it annoying to try and remember who had what room, and continuously emptying the barracks every time a caravan returns to the base.

Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?

I have a colony with four couples, two colonists with the jealous trait, one with greedy and another one with the ascetic. I don't want to micromanage where they sleep whenever one of them arrive from a caravan trip.

[zizard]

Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?

Because Greedy, Jelly, and Ascetic colonists do in fact exist.

[Norseman]

Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?

Because Greedy, Jelly, and Ascetic colonists do in fact exist.

And if you got a barracks, it usually gives debuffs you rather the more unstable of your colonists doesn't get. So there's a few good reasons why it would be useful to keep the rooms assigned when they are out.

[Greep]

I think it'd be nice if besides extreme balance, which I think is probably almost done, there was a bit of work on convenience.

For instance, there is just no way to clean a big fort in vanilla (see screenshot), which means making the home zone only the inside which leads to all sorts of annoyances.  Maybe a rework of home zone duties or miscellaneous robots mod integration after multianalyzer research could have a look into.

In any case I'm sure home zone wasn't intended to look like the second screenshot, but this is just what you do in vanilla.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[ticket]

It seems that there is no way to know the affect of working at the long-range mineral scanner. The item description says that it will find lumps every 30 days on average, but it is not clear how having colonists work at the scanner affects discovery.

[parro]

Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest/mountainous
Commitment mode: No, I just don't trust you enough yet, we'll get there
Current colony age (days):  605
Hours played in the last 2 days: 12
Complete mod list: Hugs Lib, Allow Tool, Animal Tab, Numbers

Long time listener, first time caller.
Please note I didn't update past 1.0.1982 as I was starting the ship reactor, anything that has changed since then you can disregard, also I haven't played since last year so not sure what was added in B18 vs the unstable build.

This will mainly be in regards to the mid/late game, the early game I can't remember much besides it seemed well balanced and fairly challenging.

I'll start with melee because I absolutely love where its at right now, previously I'd only use it to clean up those fleeing, now its a front line attack. I never thought I would have a mechanoid raid drop right on top and send all my melee guys to stand next to the pods, sure you lose the occansional limb, but its great for preventing infernos from getting off more than one shot, sometimes none. It was a bit strong several builds ago when one mechanoid was killed from 2 hits and it's artificial brain destroyed but I'm fairly sure they are tankier now, as they should be.

Plant work seems to take a lot longer now which is fine, the main problem seems to be with growing zones getting out of sync for harvesting over time resulting in colonists running all over the map to harvest a few plants here and a few plants there forcing regular manual harvesting to get zone back in sync. It would be great if there was an option to harvest an entire zone once all plants are ready to harvest, which would just mean not mixing soil types and if part of it gets burnt or destroyed you could just turn the option off. Ths funny thing is blight used to help with getting zones back into sync and whereas I'm fine with it as it is, it would be a good idea to change the hotkey Y, in my happy trigger finger clicking I accidently double clicked my growing zone and deleted them all resulting in a rare rage quit.

I tried this run to self sustain in regards to meat and milk from tamed animals, but it requires a lot of animals and a decent part of the map covered in haygrass, not necessarily saying it needs a buff, maybe to milk, but I do welcome any manhunter pack and will always take the risk even with bears, elephants and rhinos. Every animal on the map I'll hunt just to sustain fine meals. The mad animal event should only be early game, mid its just annoying, mad animals however can still be a challenge, I had 3 thrumbos wander in plus 2 in my taming pen go mad, my best handler lost an arm, not best anymore.

The inspirations seem like a good idea, but could be more focussed on colonists of a certain skill level rather than someone below level 5 in construction, crafting and art, perhaps it could be based more on what tasks they do the most or have a minimum skill level or passion for. I do like being able to save gold and other limited resources for inspirations mostly resulting in masterwork or legendary. That being said it woul be great to have a small chance, say 5% for level 20 to produce legendary without inspiration, maybe 1-2% for level 19 and 0% for anything below, it makes the higher levels more meaningful especially since they take a lot ot get to and maintain, plus the warm fuzzy feeling from the occassional legendary work notification. The same goes for other skills, I gave my best melee guy 2 trainers to go from level 14 to 20 resulting in an increase from 17.17 to 17.5 dps, I understand the principle behind diminishing returns but this should be slightly more rewarding. Melee and shooting are by far the hardest to get to level 20, this is the first game since A8 or so where I've gotten a colonist to level 20 shooting thanks to fast learner, burning passion and the ship launch raid madness, so more of a reward for higher levels would be great.
Back to legendary work, the notification states that word will spread far and wide, but I'm not sure this has any meaning, more raiders trying to steal it for example a few days after, more traders ground and orbital, maybe it does have an impact, but I haven't noticed. For me the more traders would be beautiful as i tend to cover the map with apparel and art.

Now to raids, sieges are a large threat early on, but become way to easy even in mid game, maybe a double, triple or even quadruple siege would make it much more of a threat. I found that raids in general late game were fairly easy, but my fun points hit 1000 after about 90 days so maybe that was it, but even ship parts weren't a challenge with only 20 centipedes and 40 or so scythers/lancers. It could also be I've played through too many versions and my game was bugged, but it seemed like I'd hit a cap, so I figured I might as well start up the ship.

The 15 days for the reactor to start were absolutely awesome, raids most days sometimes 2 at the same time, colonists barely having time to heal, rotting corpses all over the place and more mental breaks than the past 5 years. I had Doc a brawler throw a tantrum as I've been forcing hime to use a charge lance all game, he went straight to the chemfuel room resulting in 12k lost chemfuel and 10 chemfuel reactors, somehow he lived. A mechanoid raid for the first time dropped on top of my mortars destroying 10 and 200+ shells, a huge cost. One of my best shooters and level 20 artists went wildman, another level 20 constructer went beserk and was instantly killed by auto-attack. A total of 4 colonists died, luckily I has 5 resurrector serums from a trade request so in the end everyone escaped except one that had a daze next to the ship. This is a great change to the ship launch from someone who hasn'r built one since A12, hell I'll probably start the reactor much earlier next time just for the raids.

Caravaning still has a way to go, most of the time its just not worth it, early game I went for a masterwork minigun, later for 5 resurrectors in exchange for only 26 spears (I would've given 100 spears suckers). The rewards need to be masterwork and legendary items and rare items even if the goods requested go up significantly I would still go for them. The only other time I caravanned was when there were 4 outposts and 2 trade requests close together, so that was fairly worthwhile, but the outposts do need to scale higher in terms of difficulty. It would be nice to be able to drop pod a trade request, I tried to send the 26 spears, but they would only take it as a gift unless I sent another Spears, my warden named Spears who then had to walk back. Reassigning beds is also annoying, not sure if theres an easy fix for this.

Drugs at the moment seem too risky for the reward, I'd normally just use some go juice for the melee guys during raids, but during the reactor startup I had 14 melee guys take just 1 go juice every 2 days, over the 15 days 7 got addicted, 2 started developing tolerance, this seems a bit much given the length of time withdrawl takes and the extreme impairment as a result. Chemical fascination colonists are not worth it for the most part, I has 2 get addicted, go through withdrawl, then shortly after get addicted again, they mysteriously got hacked to pieces. The only one I tolerated was Sacriel, not just for his tip regarding stools next to stoves and workbenches as a colonist he was an industrious level 20 crafter with a burning passion, luckily after getting over his withdrawl after being recruited he didn't get addicted again.

Plasteel seems fairly limited, that being said I have pumped out power armour, charge rifles/lances and longswords, so it could even be nerfed a bit, uranium I always have 8000+ even with building all autodoors and most exterior walls with it, along with 10 uranium turrets in the early days of the reactor startup, Chemfuel seems abundant.

Quickly regarding mods, Numbers is probably the best mod across any game of all time, the wealth on information, being able to sort by any stat in the game, would be great to see it integrated, but regardless will always use it as long as Mehni keeps working on it that is. Allow tool the biggest feature is haul urgently, so often food, other crops and gear purchased from traders is left to deteriorating outside, a priority hauls would be a nice addition. Animal tab allows filtering by animals so you can assign particular types to various handlers, assign to bonded, unassign all, these features would be a great addition especially for those who go a mental amount of animals, also a toggle follow in the UI when you click on and animal would be much easier than going into the menu. Speaking of toggles, being able to toggle notifications would be a nice addition, especially when it comes to breakdowns, early game a cooler breaking down can mean game over, but later its just several autodoors a day.

I haven't posted graphs because my scummy overpriced ISP(anyone in the US, UK or AU will agree) has me speed limited at the moment, but fun points capped at 1000 early on, population was at 49 until friendly chat was removed after which quickly grew to 65, wealth passed 3M, mood hovered between 60 and 70.

This has gotten fairly long and I've probably forgotten a few things, but I just wanted to say as a developer your engagement with the community has been unprecedented and is to be admired especially given the variable nature and value of feedback in general, so I hope this helps and I look forward to the full release, because who doesn't love a full release. Sorry I haven't contributed more since A5 however many years ago that was but I've been happy with the progression.

Thanks for a great game.

[Broken Reality]

Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, large hills, year round growing
Commitment mode: Nope (save file corruption ruins this)
Current colony age (days):  128
Hours played in the last 2 days: 7 ish (less than i have been feeling unmotivated to test)
Complete mod list: Hugs Lib, Rim Fridge, EDB prepare carefully (just to save colonist groups incase I hate the map and don't want to spend time finding new colonists I like), additional lights, numbers (the info I want and need and I can choose what info it shows)

Started as crashlanded to try out deep drilling. 10 gold, 7 plasteel feels really low and honestly not worth the effort. Apart from trading or long range scanners how are we to get enough plasteel and gold to make enough bionics to cope with all the limb and organ loss / scars. I already need 3 eyes, 2 legs and a spine and I have yet to research fabrication and advanced fab let alone bionics.

Issues/possible bugs. I decided to breed a tortoise army (no real reason I just wanted one). I tamed all the tortoises that showed up and now I have 7. After a time some eggs get laid and I had forgotten to remove fertilised eggs from my freezer stockpile and thus they were ruined. Determined to not have this happen again I set a stockpile for the eggs in the animal barn and removed them from the freezer. Next set of eggs get laid and the 2 piles of eggs are now combined in my stockpile and the 3 new eggs are now counted as ruined by temperature. The old ruined eggs spread their ruination to the new totally fine eggs so now I had 6 ruined by temperature eggs.

This issue may also explain how sometimes food poisoning seems endless even if your kitchen area is spotless. All it takes is a raid or food poisoning basically anything to make the kitchen dirty and your cook makes some meals before you clean it. Now any stack of food those high food poison chance meals get added to are now tainted. So once you clean the kitchen and cook some more all you do is add good meals to tainted piles of meals. The only option is to stop cooking till all prepared meals are used up and then start from scratch otherwise you will just get continuous bouts of food poisoning.

On another thing about food poisoning is that raw food does not have a food poisoning chance of 2% from what i have seen it is 2% per item of food so if your colonist eats 16 berries for a meal it is something like a 27% chance they will get food poisoning. This would be fine for meat, a tad ridiculous for things like rice and corn and berries are supposed to be the safe starter food if you don't have a cook ( and especially so for tribal as they don't have nutrient paste dispensers). This also makes naked brutality much harder as you have to have a cook or you will spend most of your time vomiting. At least food poisoning no longer incapacitates colonists when it hits major.

It would be really nice if this either did not happen or if we had some way to remove or check if things are tainted by bad food. Eggs should not get ruined because a bad egg gets stacked with them.

I decided to try out a new wind turbine defense. Essentially you surround the turbine with doors and walls, 14 doors and 8 walls (4 walls if you skip the corners). This means that raiders have to destroy the doors to damage the turbine and your stray shots (or them using the turbines for cover) do not damage the turbines. (doors do not obstruct wind turbines). Now this may well end up getting nerfed however it does require rather a large amount of materials (390 stone for 14 doors and 8 walls) per turbine. Overall probably not worth the effort but something i wanted to try.

Gifting rate seems to be reduced or at least that's how it seemed as the first visitor didn't decide to leave me a gift but the first trader did and nothing else since. I got 6 blue meds which seems far more reasonable than 11 glitterworld like I have got in the past. Still not a fan of feeling patronised by random traders and visitors to my colony as I've never felt like I was doing poorly certainly not enough to warrant random gifts, being gifted an amount equivalent to what I just paid a trader for advanced components. Hopefully gifting has been reduced and it isn't just random that this colony didn't get the same level of gifting as the past two I made.

Overall so far this colony not sure now I am going to get the gold and plasteel I need. I have no artist so my only options are clothing or drugs. Feels bad that I can't mine or drill for even part of the amount I'd need (7 a time from a tiny 2 tile deep drill pocket is far too low, there are probably 3 or 4 other potential plasteel/gold veins i can see, deep drilling feel like a trap and a waste of colonist time). Chemfuel is another issue with the reduced things you can use to refine it and removal from deep drilling, on harsher biomes I'm not sure how you are supposed to get it, either you grow food for boomalopes or you use that food to refine in to chemfuel, on harsh biomes you really don't have the luxury of spare food for either of those options.

I really like how the faction system is in 0.19/1.0 however you get penalised for being friendly with all 4 factions, if you make friends with everyone you get punished by getting an increased % of mechanoid raids. Considering that outlander raids are generally harder than tribal it is beneficial to anger the friendly tribe and make friends with the hostile outlander. Tribes also have the disadvantage of their traders being worse than the outlander ones, there really is very little reason to befriend tribes (they even take longer to respond to calls for help in my experience). Tribal raids may have more people but they don't have armour and their weapons are terrible compared to outlander raids who come with flak or power armour and doomsday rockets and other advanced weaponry.

Edit:- it would be nice if the unforbid tool when used to unforbid everything didn't unforbid rotten corpses like it used to in Allow Tool. Having your haulers spend ages haling every skelton on the map is kinda frustrating. Would also love the haul urgently function as well.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[bbqftw]

As our attempts to find out what the patch actually changed - the effects of treatment quality against malaria seems to have been reduced pretty significantly.

I haven't posted graphs because my scummy overpriced ISP(anyone in the US, UK or AU will agree) has me speed limited at the moment, but fun points capped at 1000 early on, population was at 49 until friendly chat was removed after which quickly grew to 65, wealth passed 3M, mood hovered between 60 and 70.

Fun points now capped at 2000. It makes quite a bit of difference if you hit the 'lategame' early (at day 90! that is pretty impressive. It took me 160 and that's with a friendly biome)

It does strike me as amusing that corpse disposal is one of THE primary challenges in lategame merciless. Tribal sappers are particularly obnoxious regarding this, being walking mood suicide bombs - unless you have a gigantic swarm of haulers there's no way you are clearing those before they rot, and the blood, all the blood...my poor bionic leg cleaner can't keep up!




-18 from observing various corpses in various states of decay, -15 hideous environment, aint no joke.

[xion1088]

What's up with people talking about animals and meat? Did something about that? Haven't played recently so I'm worried about this meat talk, can somebody give me a quick resume or tell what's the matter? Thanks.

[erdrik]

Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, mountainous
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age (days):  3+ years
Hours played in the last 2 days: none since 0.19 update (update broke save)
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer

First try makin' a timelapse video of the screenshots from progress renderer:
https://youtu.be/n3uUdhYkIDY

[bbqftw]

Year 5 cas/merci/commit/noob biome

Something like 22v160 sapper tribal raid this time, 18k fun points.

Was running 1 fps during the clash, crashed when I hit them with 20+ kill triple rocket launcher. And game was already throwing errors at 10+ kill mortar shots.

So I guess this is the end, as playing incredibly laggy raids has become increasingly unenjoyable. My play was strictly suboptimal (if I was sane and playing optimally, I would not play wealth farmville and opt to make all my pawns 10k+ value bionic/archotech machines, and I would have tactically done some wealth reduction thingies, but I was interested in testing the very limits of my defensive setups).

If there's anything I regret, its that my computer reached the end of its sanity before seeing a 15k+ mech drop pod. This was something I was definitely curious to evaluate performance against...maybe will try some dev mode tests later.

Overall, I would say that my defensive setups performed above expectation, with zero hostile sharp wounds sustained in all of year 2-4, but my play against apocalypse level 15k+ point sapper raids needs a bit of tightening, as those ended up significantly messier. Even then, throughout these 5 years, I never got downed during a raid (there was the infamous muffalo punching adventure of year 2 to see how much my raid points would drop, which led to 4 downs, but that doesn't really count does it?), which I guess is ok.

However, Jet remains traumatized from the scyther drop of year 2 destroying his masterwork bed (never replaced).

My tentative feedback at the 10-20k point raid is consider alternate unit types with higher point values.

Some personal statistics for this run -

Times shot at by a charge lance over 5 years: 1 (1 more than is acceptable..UNCLEAN)
Record centipedes killed in a minute: 15+ (maybe I will post video this super-doombox, but it is classified for now )
Manhunter elephants killed by solo pawn in single encounter: 20+
Number of mental breaks directly due to post-sapper raid corpse littering: 6 (out of maybe ~10 total) - this is the true weapon of the tribal, the ability to inflict 20 mood points worth of damage with nothing more but their dead bodies !!! A hypothetical raid type of 100% nude tribals that are all sappers that just try to punch things in your base would be frightening indeed. I would take a psychic ship over that.
Crematoria built: 0 (100% purely organic means of corpse disposal)
Turrets built: 0

PS. @greep walling better than me. Triple walling net neutral vs. sappers at the end of the day.

[m44v]

Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Arid Shrubland/Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age (days):  466
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~15
Complete mod list: Numbers

My experience with manhunter packs is that indeed they're a source of meat that's a bit too convenient, once I got 3 manhunter packs of megasloths and rhinos in sort succession, around 20ish animals per event, maybe with a raid in between. Had to change my bills to butcher only when the colony is low on meat, since I had no way of storing the products of butchering them all, and began dishing out lavish meals, selling all the meat I could to traders and converting it into chemfuel.
Today I was down to 2 megasloth corpses in the freezer and then 27 rhinos showed up. That should be enough meat for keep my 20 pawns feed with fine meals for 40 days, so I sold my chickens and I'm going to get rid of the female dromedaries since as it stands I have no need of other sources of animal protein. I would suggest perhaps reducing the frequency of the event in late game.

And in the subject of farm animals, chickens seem to consume a lot more of food than their stats suggest, like 20% more.

[Namsan]

I like to call reinforcements from allied factions.
Problem is, their drop pods can cause severe damage to my colony.
Destroying roof is understandable, but damaging expensive items like AI persona core, or explosive items like Biofuel is unacceptable for me.
I think they should be able to find safe landing spots in my colony, because they are friendlies, not enemies.

[Elendil]

Since there are now fewer leather types in 1.0, I think it's a waste to have some of them be so close in color. For example it's hard for me to distinguish elephant leather and rhinoceros leather armchairs without clicking them. Lightleather and plainleather are very close too.

I suggest making the colors more distinct, mainly for aesthetic purposes. Lightleather could be a little more redish/brownish and rhino leather could be darker gray for example.