Mortars: Useful or not?

[GarettZriwin]

So be aware that Mortar research requires Machining research now. By the time you can build mortars, you by definition can craft sniper rifles. If you, like me, looted over 50 shells and got some from cargo pods, you still must research Machining.

I would need it anyway most of the time for steel from slag, usually its best to save silver for other traders than bulk ones in early stages.

[top_hat_tomato]

In vanilla RimWorld I never use mortars, they're just to inaccurate and their projectile speed is to slow to counteract that.
Though whenever I use modpacks, I lessen the forced miss ratio and increase the projectile speed to around double and then I think they're reasonably balanced.

[Ace_livion]

i have concluded that mortars have a "critical Mass" kinda thing.

1-3 mortars is just shooting random praying to hit something
4-6 and you can murder a whole siege.
7+ and your just sadistic, but can do moderate damage to a raid that wish to spend time peppering

my basic setup is 4 flame, and 2 explosion.
EMP mortars are useless for defense. since mecanoids don't wait before charging, or make sieges.
and if you can afford to make a EMP mortar, your better of placing some EMP mines in chase of crashed ship part.

that's my 5 cent on mortars.

[Xav]

Only tried to use mortars when they were first introduced and haven't used them since.

1. Grossly inaccurate
2. Long load time
3. Long aiming time
4. Long shell travel time
5. Minimum distance makes no sense...fire a shell straight up and IT WILL come back down on top of you (barring wind direction).
6. Too expensive to build, given reasons 1 - 4.
7. Shells aren't infinite anymore, extension of reason 6.

Ultimately, I've found them unreliable.  A squad of 3 or 4 snipers = reliable, in comparison.

[guruclef]

During the days after reading this topic I decided to try using mortars more, and actually have had very good results on mid-game defense. I'd say actually mortars don't need changes; the inaccuracy isn't as bad as some posts make it sound, in my opinion.

[hyperkiller]

I use mortars as anti-siege defense but the accuracy are pretty bad (tend to use incendiary rounds to hopefully get fire near them). while the raiders don't need accuracy too much since the colony tend to be a huge target while there camp is a much smaller, harder to hit target.

but then again, i usually only use 2-3 mortars so maybe i need a few more

[GarettZriwin]

Quantity has its own quality.

[DarkXanatos]

I don't know if they got changed in Alpha 15 or 16, but in Alpha 14 (I skipped 15), I very much disliked Mortars. Their range and accuracy were very very poor. Unless I totally misunderstood the range aspect. Either way, mortar's were atrocious. Enemies move to fast to have any hope of hitting them with a mortar shot. By the time they get into range of the colonists, the colonists are murdering the raiders quicker than a mortar can fire. Automated turrets, even the vanilla ones, are able to kill all raiders (with colonist help, unless turret spamming).

Mortar's in real world military usage, are not for engaging moving forces. They are for use against stationary targets. The only time a mortar can be used against moving targets, is if the zone the targets are moving through, is already zeroed in on. Before hand. Even then, its no guarantee any of the targets will be killed. Mortars make a very distinctive sound. That can be heard long before they impact. Allowing infantry to scramble for cover or simply out of the area.

Mortar's are a poor defensive weapon. Much better at breaking a defense and or used by infantry teams on the move to assist in an advance. (Some might disagree, but this is what I know to the best of my knowledge.)

[SpaceDorf]

Mortar's in real world military usage, are not for engaging moving forces. They are for use against stationary targets. The only time a mortar can be used against moving targets, is if the zone the targets are moving through, is already zeroed in on. Before hand. Even then, its no guarantee any of the targets will be killed. Mortars make a very distinctive sound. That can be heard long before they impact. Allowing infantry to scramble for cover or simply out of the area.

Mortar's are a poor defensive weapon. Much better at breaking a defense and or used by infantry teams on the move to assist in an advance. (Some might disagree, but this is what I know to the best of my knowledge.)

Thats true.
As a former Armored Artillery Soldier, I always mix up mortars and the armored Version.
Those are a lot more accurate, especially since the new Versions use Targeting Systems similiar to other Modern Tanks like the Abrams or Leopard.

But both Mortars and Artillery rely heavily on spotters to direct the fire.
Especially when friendly Troops are involved. Either to prepare for an attack, or to cover a retreat.
Spotters usually use a Laser Pointer to transmit the actual Target, very similiar to a sniper.
Or Communication to direct the fire ( 10 up, 6 right .. )
Finally. Once the target is locked only slight adjustments are neccessary and fire rates of
6-8 shells per Minute are possible. 4-6 for prolonged fire.
This Numbers are from the Armored, Hand-Loaded M155A Tanks I served on.

And it is true, that due to the configuration of Mortars they are highly inaccurate.
Short barrels with high yield using a high parabol flightpath.
Still, the should become more accurate the more they fire.
And the ingame inaccuracy puts me off. So I don't use them.

I liked the suggestion of giving mood modification for being under fire.
Being a Motivational weapon is the main use for artillery and grenades.
You fire/throw them to make sure the enemy moves away from there. The possibility to kill the enemy is a added bonus.

But since no AI in any wargame ever reacts this way, Mortars and Artillery are not correctly applied.

Following are my suggestions :

Mood Penalties for being under fire.
Increasing Accuracy, maybe dependend on shooting or science.
Research to further increase accuracy, increase firing rate
i.e. Autoloader using feeders, increased explosion radius, ..
The Ability to set prepared firing Zones and Targets
A movable target flag as suggested earlier, instead of single aiming.
Single Barrel, different Shells.
Special Shells -> Firefoam, Light, Fog, Cluster, Gas, Cows ..

Low Tech Variants like Catapults, Trebuchets for early use.


------
EDIT
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Siege Christmas is really funny.
Just shoot whomever tries to build the mortars, and you get the most amount of ressources out of it.
Scouts trying to stop you get melee mugged behind cover.
Works nearly every time.

[JimmyAgnt007]

I used them when I had nothing else to do with my resources and wanted to pound siege camps.  But unless the enemies were standing around they were kind of useless.  Even with a dozen of them firing.  If they could be uninstalled, taken on raids of other factions bases, then maybe, but thats a lot of hauling that you also need to bring back.  So these days I would say I almost never use them unless I want to bust a siege.

A direct fire cannon that could hit an advancing attacker would be a lot more useful.  Maybe have it work as both direct and indirect so we dont loose the one good thing the mortar could do.  Just require some time to reconfig for use.

[BugPowderDust]

Before A15 I used them a little, but they are so inaccurate, and fire so slowly, they are a waste of the colonists manning them

[Shurp]

Unless that colonist is himself a waste.  That's the one potential advantage to a mortar I can see: it can be operated by the old man with cataracts and a bad back. 

But it's easier to feed him to the pigs and recruit someone who can fire a sniper rifle instead.

[Lord_Orion]

Mood Penalties for being under fire.
Increasing Accuracy, maybe dependend on shooting or science.
Research to further increase accuracy, increase firing rate
i.e. Autoloader using feeders, increased explosion radius, ..
The Ability to set prepared firing Zones and Targets
A movable target flag as suggested earlier, instead of single aiming.
Single Barrel, different Shells.
Special Shells -> Firefoam, Light, Fog, Cluster, Gas, Cows ..
Low Tech Variants like Catapults, Trebuchets for early use.

A lot of these are very flavorful and good additions to the mortar mechanics. I think the accuracy is fine as I find one incendiary mortar very capable of wining an engagement with 2 sieging mortars. Since AI pawns wont heal each other its only a matter of time before you burn a mortar or force them to attack. Its true Snipers can out perform mortars but it is not always a sure thing that snipers don't take fire back.
Were mortars shine the most pre A16 is Crash Ships Parts. I find snipers don't always have a clear shot and mechs like to run up with charge lances. Big maps can further add risk when your pawn have to walk along way for food and medical attention.

[Jens]

Even though feedback is probably plentiful by now and mine doesn't bring anything new to the table I will just drop my quick thoughts.

- They seem to be one of, if not the least cost efficient way of defending your colony.
- For me, I can never find the time to prioritize the research early enough. Hence, they become available later in the game, when they are even less useful imo.
- That being said, I dont find them being bad or terrible in any way, but they are the "lesser" option.

[Rafe009]

The thing I like about mortars is their ability to enable relatively unskilled pawns to do catastrophic damage to enemy. Mortars enable me to get more use out of my pawns.