Unstable build feedback thread

[Serina]

If they don't hunt human-likes, maybe they should automatically trigger manhunter at a certain hunger/malnutrition level to cover desperation? It would give an alert like any other manhunter event, but would add realism without dangerous surprises.

I like that idea. It's better than completely disabling predators from hunting humans.

On a side note: https://imgur.com/a/QF2YMdH
I've had two polar bears and a cougar bond to the doctors tending their wounds but haven't had any large animals bond to their handlers.
I specifically try to assign certain pawns to handling in hopes of establishing bond between the animal/handler but so far the doctors have had more luck.

Also, are animals able to bond to someone else once their previously bonded pawn has died? Whiskers the cougar bonded to Elsie while she was tending to his wounds but she died last month after bravely tanking 5 wargs during a manhunter event.

[Dargaron]

Also, are animals able to bond to someone else once their previously bonded pawn has died? Whiskers the cougar bonded to Elsie while she was tending to his wounds but she died last month after bravely tanking 5 wargs during a manhunter event.

Wouldn't that potentially cause problems with the Resurrection Serum, since an animal can (IIRC), only be bonded to one individual?

[cactusmeat]

can we get a button for smoothing walls on the wall itself just like the mining one?

[Scavenger]

About deadfall traps never springing on you or allies: new meta for bases guys! in case you have tons of steel to spend.



I wonder if IEDs work similarly. Maybe explosives need a strategy, but EMP ones will counter mechanoids for sure.


And predators are passive now. Once there are no animals they could hunt for, they'll stand there until a new proper animal spawns. And when you attack them, they don't go manhunter for 100% chance anymore. They'll fight back until you flee, then they'll leave you alone. I wish this was a thing only in peaceful difficulty.

This... Is exactly what i imagined would happen the moment i saw that trap change lol, but didn't want to mention it till i tried it because of theorycrafting. With no need to stagger them so pawns can get through, every passage is just a death trap. SAD! Something needs to change, but i have no idea what. It was really annoying when pawns or pets would accidentally trigger them, but this is actually worse. I preferred to actually avoid using traps before this too except in emergencies because i felt they were a bit strong and not fun, maiming or killing enemies without anymore input from you than placing them decades ahead of time. 

Maybe a way to make traps more impactful and interactive but having far fewer somehow? Cost more?

Perhaps have some kind of small game trap to catch food like old school fur trapers, would help a lot with early game when you are too weak from starting out, injury, or something else to risk a hunt, and to keep rats out of your food supply. Maybe it even roots them in place like a bear trap!

And a lowtech trap for any humans and/or larger animals. Deadfall could work for that, but still the issue of spamming them in narrow corridors without fear of friendly fire with their current changes.

Splitting into 2 kinds of traps could also cut back on large amounts of dead animals around the map from your traps in critter dense biomes.

And i have somehow never been attacked by a random wild predator out of hunger without a manhunter even! Typically the only big preds i have played with are Panthers and the odd wolf. And i like the second to biggest map size, so that could have something to do with it, an abundance of food. Ive done jungle my last few runs so its crawling with critters. And critter corpses... Cobras are a fkn menace, the map is always littered with monkey, rat, chinchillas, and the odd tortoise corpses:P They killed a baby panther of mine, and probably 5 of my baby alpacas... Constantly sneaking into my base to eat my critters whenever i look away. I actually kinda like it, its realistic:P

[Greep]

I'm still staggering traps mostly: they reduce movement, and with sufficient enemy traffic trap # matters  more than trap density.

Not to say that cant be useful.

Also, item stash no threats 13 advanced components.  yuuuuuuuuumy

[Serina]

Wouldn't that potentially cause problems with the Resurrection Serum, since an animal can (IIRC), only be bonded to one individual?

Ah, didn't even think about Resurrection Serums and how it would affect multiple bonds. I've never seen an animal bond to more than one person, was just wondering if it was possible at all.

[Scavenger]

If they don't hunt human-likes, maybe they should automatically trigger manhunter at a certain hunger/malnutrition level to cover desperation? It would give an alert like any other manhunter event, but would add realism without dangerous surprises.

I like that idea. It's better than completely disabling predators from hunting humans.

Yes please! Most people used mods to alert them to predators hunting colonists anyways.

[cactusmeat]

Just updated my save to the most recent build, i'm having trouble keeping all the animals butchered. there isn't enough grass on my map, coastal mountains, river and half year of growing. This trap change made it so they path into my kill box to eat grass and die in the process. Nobody hunts any more. If anything the animals should sense danger based on visible corpses, unnatural structures, the fact that nothing leaves the death box... It's just unrealistic at this point.

I'm suggesting adding different levels of traps for different sizes of things. traps that catch things alive, then require hunters or animal handlers, bear traps made of steel, pitfall traps for large animals, perhaps some scifi goo bomb trap.

the catch all build 400 deadfalls out of stone defence is a tiny bit too strong right now.

edit: after 30 days of picking corpses out of my traps a huge sapper wave came with 21 guns vs my 4 guns and 5 recurve bows. they all had armor/shield belts too. i guess having endless meat made my colony suddenly rich. Everyone died horribly.

[Lizzi]

Thanks for the sapper raid fix, I had plenty of game-ending sapper runs that I would have survived had they actually run home when half of them were downed/killed.

[Sirinox]

Noticed something probably unintended — steel mortars weight significantly less than ingredients needed to make one or that can be obtained deconstructing it. It motivates to transfer large batches of steel in form of mortars and there is no drawback to send constructed mortars via drop pods instead of resources to construct them on-site.
It even lighter than mini-turrets.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[Crow_T]

Regarding animals hunting colonists, about a week ago I was about to post about how I lost a colonist to a bear without knowing it happened, and that my boar ate her head (lol), and about how earlier in the game I saw one of my pawns running and escaping from an animal with no warning.  I had 2 takaways from this, that a) a pawn could run away, and b) the one that died was doing exploratory mining and was trapped- so it was my fault, not the game's. So, next time be more prepared when working away from the base right? A warning would have been nice though. Still, a good chunk of my mishaps come from my own lack of paranoia and preparedness as opposed to unfair game mechanics.

Animals hunting livestock is good to have still.

[Gfurst]

Heya quick field report, this happened yesterday, before latest patch, Phoebe Hard on temperate hilly with small river biome.

So I've finally got a sapper raid, and it was refreshing since I was literally only getting mech raids (so kudos for that). On my first attempt i was caught by surprise and as they went to attack my unprotected wall, I tried to flank them from behind, but they just kept pushing and wreaked havoc inside the base with my non fighting pawns. Attached picture was my second attempt (because why not), and this time I prepared positioning properly (very quickly microing mind you), they broke two holes in the wall but couldn't break through. Ryu there in the middle is my melee powerhouse, I was in doubt about the combat system changes, but being a bloodlust with plasteel sword + power claw really made him a beast, plus the combination of plasteel plate + shield belt to protect him on the crossfire, there really is a lot more to the system then it meets at first glance and I'm glad to say its pretty satisfying. The raiders had a couple of miniguns and they pretty intimidating, and indeed be pretty dangerous had not been taken care quickly. My greatest surprise was  having the raiders, after unsuccessfully trying to breach, go for the other entrance which was now only protected by an auto-cannon, it caught me by surprise and I had to quickly scramble to send forces there, the cannon was destroyed. At this time they did not flee at all, which again, kudos for already fixing.

Now second picture is how the temperate forest looks like, 5 years in in the summer of jugust, mind you yesterday so before changes to grass growth. It looks half alright I'd say, parts of the map are green while parts where barren like picture. It feels somewhat natural, I'm able to let my animals graze for most of the year without worrying about it. Trees also starting to look alright, their tendency to spawn on rocky terrain seem to be fixed. Something that feels strange though, is that throughout most of the year there are lots, and I mean a ton of animals all around, and I mean free hunt all year, with only a toxic fallout being really a threat. Comparing this with older versions of the game, I'd say we always have a lot of meat in the freezer with vegetables being the bottleneck, since crops take a lot longer to grow, and we practically have nearly nothing wild to harvest anymore, but still plenty of wildlife all around. My suggestion to this though, is instead of fiddling with plant growth, tone down wild life amount quite a bit, so naturally there would be quite a lot more grass around, plus put wild harvesting back on the menu it would also be nice to see more wild plants besides berry/agave (and of course make wildlife quantity depend on map size).

As another side story, this raid left me three survivors, which was quite refreshing, but they were garbage and thus ended up as organ farms, so I've finally got some replacement lungs for my people. That plus butchering some corpses for my livestock feed really pushed my people over the edge, through a dreadful broken cycle, it was a pretty rough week but they pulled through. However this led to a couple of house arrests which I was pretty glad how it worked out, firstly because on both cases, I was able to peacefully arrest without fight ensuing before things got worse. My first arrest was a druggie, which worked out because she was catatonic and going through withdraw anyway, the second surprise was being able to just release the other colonist after going through her rough period. So basically you can just release prisoner back into colony, so you don't need to re-recruit them and they won't just walk out anymore (I don't know when this was fixed, but it was nice touch regardless).

Now a final story about caravaning, this happened a couple of days ago though.What happened is that I've sent a convoy out with a double mission, of getting an item stash and mining a jade deposit. Everything went somewhat smoothly, even though there were some injuries and I had to put up temporary camps (both threats were manhunting animals). However I've ended up with +- 900 jade, which equates to roughly more than 450kg of jade. so no way I would be bringing everything back in my 5 pawn caravan. I've ended up needing to transport pod quite a lot of resources, so they could build up another 4 transport pods (plus launchers and fuel) so they could send everything back home, and still walk the way back. this seemed like quite the hefty investment to me, though possible still worth it, specially considering end price of crafted jade art, though I'm not sure jade weight like that is even intended (the 1/10 change perhaps). But anyway, after doing this another "rescue mission" spawned just by my caravan's path, but this time it showed the danger of 10 sleeping mechs, which was not worth it. In some way, giving the exact threat amount I felt took away from the randomness and experience, and discouraging even trying. It would be best to only have a rough estimate, and even then only size up foreign threats to only about half of the colony's strength, since most of the time you should only be going with at most half colony anyway.

And holy crap sorry for writing this wall of text, I just got going with it, here a tl;dr summary:

• Testing out combat, both melee and ranged felt really satisfying.
• Sappers really got me by surprise, and their flanking felt smart.
• Arresting and releasing your own colonist works properly.
• Reduce overall animal count on map instead of buffing plant growth
• Also another vote to revert predators attacking pawns, I had no problem with that yet, and it should also be affected by the above.
• Having the exact threat count on missions is discouraging, only a rough approximate should be enough, plus, sizing that up to about half colony would feel right.
• Seems like Jade (and possibly other minerals) have their harvest quantities and/or weight off.
• Having at least some steel on event maps should be a thing, so that its a least feasible to transport pod back.
• Time limit on mining missions is alright, but it should be a long one at least, about an year in average.
• Same goes aggressive faction camps, they should also have a time limit, but a long one, for those cases where you just don't want to bother with some.
• Food poisoning should also be somewhat random, it feels that when conditions meet, people always get poisoned in groups. (current mechanics led me to third picture, which feels like I had no option.
• The change to wimp is welcome, but still not near enough, most things still perma down some of these guys, like fourth picture.
• Drafted pawns wont act on things outside of their allowed area, like flicking switch or putting out fires, the draft should override this.
• The "guilty prisoner" stat doesn't seem to be applying properly, and it feels somewhat short (unless it scales with how much damage they've caused.
• Breakdown rate is a bit alarming, feels like something breaks every couple of days, result is it ends up being a drag on components with no way to counter.
• Shift click on priorities should ignore non-assigned colonist, eg left/right click to bulk adjust priorities.
• The only thing that still keeps me using manual priorities is the occasional haul/clean micro, there needs to be a better solution, and I agree that a "cleanup" schedule time would work.
• There is some excessive hauling going on, they will tidy up stockpile even when its not needed, and crafters will always drop at an empty space instead of existing pile. This relates to the above since it keeps them from cleaning.
• Click and drag on the work tab would be a nice QoL addition, eg: untick and drag to remove jobs from a lot of people at the same time.
• Context sensitive scrolling on the left side panel. eg: storage, pawn tabs.

[attachment deleted due to age]

[Oblitus]

The jungle is still barren.

1.0 freshly generated jungle: https://i.imgur.com/zTpSrC9.jpg
0.18 freshly generated jungle: https://i.imgur.com/UJqgPNO.jpg

In the older version, every fertile tile was occupied by some kind of vegetation. Now, no less than half is just bare. In fact, flora density of current jungle is somewhere around that of 0.18 boreal forest: https://i.imgur.com/KF91JoC.jpg

[Jstank]

Predators no longer hunt humanlike.......

I mean, I think we wanted a strong game pause notification letter for this event, not just a casual elimination of a mechanic. Now winter hunting/ doing stuff outdoors is not a risk! Mod pwease!

[dearmad]

Predators no longer hunt humanlike.......

I mean, I think we wanted a strong game pause notification letter for this event, not just a casual elimination of a mechanic. Now winter hunting/ doing stuff outdoors is not a risk! Mod pwease!

Yeah this was an odd choice on Tynan's part that I don't understand. Predators, like Grizzlies and Timber Wolves should make me frightened to be out alone...

ruined a lot of the mood of the map for me too. I'm just not feeling like we're in wilderness anymore...

BRING THEM BACK!!!