Silly Ideas

Started by Nocebo, November 11, 2013, 09:23:53 AM

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Nocebo

With Tynan liking weird playstyles and the game having a nice science fiction setting. I just came up with this silly thing. The game is probably the most fun and most promising i have seen in years. And i am having insane amounts of fun with it. The fact one man managed to get this far alone deserves something in return. (Something other than money...)

I know this is stupidly early in the development process to even mention this. But maybe there will be enough interest for it that development can steer towards it to make things in the future easier when/if it get's implemented.

My idea: A strange alien metal named Nanyt (na-nite) that will cause all sorts of weird things to happen.
Put some near your crops and boom rats will detonate if they try to eat it. Things like that.
Raiders will try to capture it. Or run in fear from it at a split second's notice.
Basically it will give nearly everything a crapshoot upgrade to either make it next to useless for it's intended purpose but incredibly hilarious. (Put some on your sunlamp and it might actually create darkness instead of light.) Or become slightly more useful, but also awesomely hilarious. (Put some on a sunlamp and it will shine brighter. But only if there is no colonist nearby, it's shy ;))

There will hopefully be plenty of more content to have such craziness going on in the future. Perhaps you can add one yourself as you're reading this.

I also understand there probably are tons of suggestions about adding resources and metals already. This is about adding more weird to the game while making it all point back to the genius that created this game.

(And people that don't want it could simple toggle off the possibility of getting Nanyt at world gen.)

EDIT: Removed fun-shattering line of text.
Supporter of The Mad Boommuffalo Project!

Galileus

Quote from: Nocebo on November 11, 2013, 09:23:53 AMMy idea: A strange alien metal named Nanyt (na-nite) that will cause all sorts of weird things to happen.
Basically anything that won't ever get a real explanation or reason can be pinned on Nanyt.

Please, don't. If you have magic and don't have explanation for it, just say it's magic. If you really want to explain magic, do it well and without creating billions of nanythrete particles, evil Macmanuses of Eryrathiel, retroscopic postassimilation of otherwise unexpandable yellow-pink matter or other stupid techno-babbles.

People are not stupid. Is something is good enough to fit in the world, they will allow it to pass with no explanation other than "technology!". And if you must explain something, do it instead of finding excuses. Otherwise we end up with insults as bizarre as cold fusion being cold in Star Trek.

As for the rest - it's terrible. It's a serious game in serious and grim tone. Ester eggs? Sure! Global, game-changing ester eggs? Hell no.

Nocebo

#2
I would have appreciated if you looked outside the box and understand what i really meant. Nanyt is simply Tynan backwards. The idea was to add his name into the game as sort of an homage and just because it will add a bit of weirdness to the game doesn't make it "magic" at all. There would be no added technology at all. No mining of this resource other then finding one or two pieces per map. I think you have been jaded by too many similar ideas to see the real purpose of this one.

I don't understand what you mean with "if you must explain something, do it instead of finding excuses." I thought i explained very clearly and even provided examples. I'm only trying to help and add to the game. If I can't even understand how I should explain things I have no business on these forums so in all seriousness, could you explain your view a bit more?

For people that like to keep it serious there should be a way to disable it indeed, as I mentioned.
But i don't think everyone sees it as a serious game with a serious grim tone. With boomrats and the crazy hilarious traits some colonists have. I except a great deal of humor in the final game. I hope this won't turn into a colony simulator in the sense that everything has to run perfect according to the exact numbers crunched by an AI or the player.

ADDITION: Reading the game sales page I do see the mention that this is a "Colony Sim" game. But also mention of comedy and "near-magical teleportation devices". I'm pretty sure there are some blank pages left my idea could fill with regards to how serious the game is meant to be.

ADDITIONAL ADDITION: If the words "Alien Metal" ticked you off. Try seeing it in a way of just plain strange objects (Totally possible, it is an alien world after all.) That can be sacrificed to the AI story telling god. (I'm sure some form of religion will survive in the future) By using it on a building or item for a little blessing. I can totally see religious sacrifice fitting in this "grim serious" world. It is up to the AI then to decide to favor you or shun you.
I can't get a good feeling about having a Colony "Simulator" be story driven... If it is story driven, what is being simulated? That is why I think I don't take the game as serious as you do.
Supporter of The Mad Boommuffalo Project!

Galileus

QuoteNanyt is simply Tynan backwards.

So? You still propose to blame all things unexplained on an evil wizard. Did ST:TNG explain exactly how warp works? No. Did we care? No. "Antimatter, bla, bla, bla - hey, that antimatter stuff is real! Cool! I buy it!". Less explanation is more - we have established something, we explained it is a common thing and it works through TECHNOLOGY, there is no need for anything more. Thanks to that writers of TNG were able to do a lot of crazy and fun stuff with warp core problems, holodeck running amok and so on. Now blame it on some... thing... and the charm is ruined and writers are forced to point more and more things on this magic thingy. It's simply a bad practice.

Look:

- Why are people strained on the planed able to build stuff?
- Technology!
- Ahh, I see, some matter reconfiguration gadget then? Cool!

- Why are people strained on the planed able to build stuff?
- Nanyt!
- Ahh, I s... wait... what? What does it have to do with anything? How does it work? What is it anyway? Why noone mentions it? Why noone mines for it? What in the hell is going on?

See? Magic in motion :) I could go deeper into how human mind works and why it works like that, but there is simply no reason to.

QuoteI don't understand what you mean with "if you must explain something, do it instead of finding excuses."

If you add any non-real element to your narrative (magic, warp speeds, magic prophet wormhole fairies) you either cut your explanation short and sweet with a wink (Doctor Who - wibbly wobbly timey whimey!) or you actually do your research and od it properly (Mass Effect). These are the two options that give us all a proper signal: either to go into it and munch on it with our brain cells that survived Call of Duty, or to let it go and just enjoy the show. Anything in between and you don't know what to do - should I question it? But if I do it falls apart! Blaming something on some magical rare ore suggests there is some depth to it and people just may start asking questions, only to find there is no depth to it at all.

There is a way to do it properly, like Steins;Gate did it - fake the "now we explain!" part only to come up with some crazy explanation everyone accepts without question. But that takes skill to set up and execute, and is quite deeper than reversing the developers name. Sure, it would be sweet to have some nice wink somewhere like "Religions of Chaos And Space Gods, tome 1: Tynan", but that's that. To explain everything that doesn't get deep enough with the same wink is of poor taste.

QuoteBut i don't think everyone sees it as a serious game with a serious grim tone. With boomrats and the crazy hilarious traits some colonists have. I except a great deal of humor in the final game. I hope this won't turn into a colony simulator in the sense that everything has to run perfect according to the exact numbers crunched by an AI or the player.

I do agree. But humor and games supposed to be repayable don't mix too well - because the joke is a joke only first time around. Humor in video games needs to be short and sweet, so it's not a drag on another way through. It can be situational or just a sweet little thing like a boomrat - and a boomrat is genius in it's simple form, as it's not even breaking the feel of the game. Ok, I can see why they call them boomrats - they go boom. You have a short smile and you move on - it doesn't break the narrative.

Having some magical ore that everything in lore points to? Bad enough. Having it in game and massively impacting it? That's even worse. Cut it a bit, shorten it into a little nice joke and we're golden. I understand you like your own idea and you're prod of it - and so you want as much of it in game as possible. But unfortunately obesity kills the cat. Or something like that. Drag it too far, and it's a drag and not humor.

Then again on "turn off" option - it doesn't help. I want to see 'em ester eggs in game, or weird stuff like in Fallout - but if that would include some hugely affecting the game and lore ore? I would have to give up on all of them, because while I may enjoy a funny little shadow lamp - having it affect raiders or colonists would make me want to cry. Maybe even I will be able to turn it off during the game and go back - but a bad taste will stay.

Nocebo

I see your points. I guess i didn't really realize my own words when i said "blame everything unexplained on it."
I never encompassed the whole "why did we crash on this planet" as blamed on Nanyt. I simply imaged things would go:
"What happened to that light? I swear we turned it on!"
-"We don't know!"

Probably could have worded the opening better. I'm impressed by your explanation and know both ST:TNG and Steins;Gate so you hit home pretty well. I suppose maybe I am the one jaded by seeing too many realistic games of late and wanting a bit of not-so-serious gaming. I guess that is what Prison Architect is going to have to be for ::)

PS: I wish the whole thread would refresh/update when I edit a post and save it. So I can see there is a reply and don't constantly append my post like an idiot instead of replying.
Supporter of The Mad Boommuffalo Project!

Galileus

I did though so ;) I can be rough on edges, sure, but I do try to explain my point of view and have something to back it up if I do. But you know, better to be sure!

Also, you got good bonus points for TNG and Steins;Gate, so here's a bonus for you in return! I was thinking about the whole premise of humour in repayable games, and I think I hit pretty close to home to making your idea work magic. It may not be what you imagined - but let's try anyway!

So, your first game: a traveller named "Mad Prophet" comes by (and literally, he walks to one of your colonists) and a text bubble comes up, where he warns you to beware the ghost of Nanyte who died in this area long ago. Since then, it is haunted and noone would dare to settle here. It happens once and possibly again only after some counter of games ticks down to zero if you've missed it. After the speach is completed, prophet goes away - and will vanish in a burst of smoke or fire if you try to capture or shoot him. Then nothing happens for a time. After that, once a long time you can get a "Nanyt Curse" special event, where something silly happens - you get message that a lamp got shy and will only be lit when no-one is near, 3x3 area of carpets will change colour to pink or a boomrat will mate with muffalo to create "Dire Boommuffalo". Or maybe some wereboomrat? Either an event like this (with an appropriate text bubble) or something more in poltergeist fashion - a lamp will turn colour to red, area will be covered by lots of blood and so on - anyone who witnesses that would have a big fear increase as "Nanyt Curse".

This way you can do a lot of cool stuff while keeping it both short and sweet and robust and deep. You could time it, so you have a chance to get no more than one-two events from the pool in one game and two on very very long games. Or sometimes get none. That way not only it keeps fresh, but also players will be talking about it and exchanging their experiences. At the same time it's the short sweet thing I was talking about. Maybe even a small chance some way, way later to meet with Mad Prophet again?

AspenShadow

Liking the idea. So far the possible storyteller events suggested have been far too sane for my interest, the shy lamp concept is deeply amusing and while I'm always wary of mixing Classic Supernatural and Sci-Fi a poltergeist-esque effect would be very nice. I'd probably draw my limit not long after having to strap an oaf to the bed and get a researcher to exorcise him.

Nocebo

#7
I like the new take on the idea a lot! I did steer clear of such thinking for fear of being too complicated to add in the coding? Adding in whole new events and conversations would feel like too much to ask. So going for a simple item idea that can be used on others items (Since we already have the blowtorch repair effect) would be relatively simple. And the strange effects as I had in mind would just be a few extra parameters per item. I still need to find a balance between modesty in my creative thinking and making it well thought out I suppose.

I agree that making it an actual event (like a solar flare) would totally work better though. And would probably make it a lot easier to add in more "side effects" as the game grows. The Nanyt curse is definitly the way to go!

Also, Dire Boommuffalo?! Dude you took what I imagined and went to Las Vegas with it! We need to make sure Dire Boommuffalo make it in the game no matter what!

But yea what about the long term happenings though. Would this be a one time event? If the same thing happens multiple times it could become boring. Would there be special triggers for it? If there are random things happening like carpets changing colors or lights being shy it would be more fun if there was at least a moderate base built. So timing would be important.

Maybe it should be a little bit of a punishment event?
(Just one of the triggers could be: )It could happen if a slave you bought dies by low change perhaps. This should give it enough pacing to happen somewhere in a moderate base size at least. It could also hint that "the ghost of Nanyt" was a slave himself once.

As for other "strange events" that could happen during the curse. Fun could be had with the sound effects too. I don't know too much about copyrights but I would definitely get a laugh if we could get the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy's door sounds. Or in the funny-only-once category, have the guns make fart noises. Or in the poltergeist scene, guns spraying blood instead of bullets.
Supporter of The Mad Boommuffalo Project!

Galileus

Holly nancy, mate, you dodged a bullet there. I mean, it literally went millimetres away from your face. But no worries, I got it :D

"You've detected a crashed pod nearby. There may be some useful resources in there" - as we get even now. Just there's a potted plant instead of resources ;)

Anyway - as for how hard it would be to implement. Actually I think most of ideas are rather cheap. By text bubble I meant text like in tutorial messages - to clarify :) A trigger would need to be added and behaviour for Mad Prophet - and that would be probably the hardest part. The "once per X gameplays" part of Mad Prophet should be probably left for way later down the road. The rest is rather straight forward and work with what we have - shy lamp might be tricky though. As for red lamp its a simple replacement with a hue-changed version: when the event runs, function looks through list of lamp IDs and chooses one on random, then replaces one item with another. Same with Dire Boommuffalo - recolour it brown with slight hue adjustment, the "boom on death" is already in there, mad is in there, it would probably be switching a few variables. Blood appearance would need to find a room - thats hard part - and then just add existing blood sprite in random amount (1-3) on every tile. Carpets would need to find a 3x3 area - hard part - then switch items. Replacing sound effect similar if not easier - you copy the doors item, give it a new ID, replace sound and add an event that has a chance to replace random doors with sad doors. And Tynan can record the sound himself if we're afraid of copyrights ;)

As for timing and long-term effects - it should work on timer, so that at least X ticks are in between events - as I've mentioned to make it possible to get two events in the same game only in very long ones. The first one can be forced to wait till certain date (the game tracks time anyway) before a chance of appearing. As for mind-effect: it should be a serious one in my opinion, but not so long-lasting. More like a sudden spike of fear, that has no lasting consequences - after all it shouldn't affect game too much.

I also LOVE the idea of having special ones reserved. This is a chance for Tynan to say "what have you done with my game!?" to all these game-breakers ;) One that only vets of RimWorld would notice would be to switch friend&foe on one of the turrets so it shoots at colonists with a message of "It seems an evil entity has decided to take control over one of your turrets and play some defence". It would be an amazing nod and ironic commentary to all these turret-spammers and tower-defence lovers, that could be triggered only if poltergeist event was supposed to happen anyway AND player has X turrets per 1 colonist. Not to self: these event should have priority over normal events, but on % chance - so that it's easier to get them (the trigger condition is making it harder anyway!) but it's not popping up every time you met the trigger conditions.

Also, dunno about you, but I'm going to adjust my signature :>

Nocebo

can't quite see what bullet i dodged but OK. At least i dodged it.  ::)

Having the curse only happen once or twice per game would certainly cause a buzz wouldn't it? The rarity of events would be a huge influence on it. I use turrets myself, but I totally love the idea of a berserk turret. "Who knew inanimate objects could go berserk!"

Shy lamps might work if they become a non moving entity? They could get sight range and a (instant?) firing action that would simple trigger the light effect when another entity gets within it's sight range.

Since it has shifted to a curse now rather than crazy alien magic metal. I don't suppose there is a way to squeeze a couple of positive effects in? Maybe if there ever will be domesticated animals the curse could suddenly make all animals pregnant? Or it might scramble up the coms when you're trading and you "accidentally" get a bit more than you were supposed to?
Supporter of The Mad Boommuffalo Project!

Galileus

No, the positive side would be great too. As long as it's silly ;) Would need to have a reason to be there in the poltergeist fashion - but what if said poltergeist would get angry at raiders for wanting to torment the people he wants to torment and have fun with? Oh boy, I can see all this fun stuff that could be done with it already. I would keep it in the "it was supposed to be a prank" wavelength anyway. Got one: over-abundance. Poltergeist showers you with stacks of 1 metal or food each :P

Then it's all over the place for now - good events, bad events, silly events... :P

As for the bullet - remember that part in Hitchhiker's where a whale was thinking about existence while falling from orbit down to the ground? And a potted flower was right besides him, thinking "not again"? Exactly ;)

Reaver41

Quote from: Galileus on November 11, 2013, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Nocebo on November 11, 2013, 09:23:53 AMMy idea: A strange alien metal named Nanyt (na-nite) that will cause all sorts of weird things to happen.
Basically anything that won't ever get a real explanation or reason can be pinned on Nanyt.

Please, don't. If you have magic and don't have explanation for it, just say it's magic. If you really want to explain magic, do it well and without creating billions of nanythrete particles, evil Macmanuses of Eryrathiel, retroscopic postassimilation of otherwise unexpandable yellow-pink matter or other stupid techno-babbles.

People are not stupid. Is something is good enough to fit in the world, they will allow it to pass with no explanation other than "technology!". And if you must explain something, do it instead of finding excuses. Otherwise we end up with insults as bizarre as cold fusion being cold in Star Trek.

As for the rest - it's terrible. It's a serious game in serious and grim tone. Ester eggs? Sure! Global, game-changing ester eggs? Hell no.
yes yes yes, its really the worst idea i have ever heard. why dont we just add ice wizards who can ice the doors so the bandits cant enter and like be gandalf and shit
no
NO
NO

Galileus

You could want to read the whole topic before answering to the idea that evolved quite a bit since the first two posts. Or you can just read two first posts and ignore the whole rest. You can also judge books depending on it's cover. It's a free world after all.

Nasikabatrachus

CLOWNS

CLOWNS COME DOWN IN AN ESCAPE POD

THERE'S JUST ONE POD BUT SO MANY

THEY HAVE +5 VORPAL SHOES

YOU HAVE MET THE DREAD PIRATE CLOWNBERT

What? It's called Silly Ideas. Stop looking at me like that.

Actually, now that I think about it, it would be hilarious to have an AI Storyteller with only ridiculous events. Call it Wanda Whimsical. Maybe it could be a mod, someday.

Galileus

Actually...

Lumberjack's Fierce M16 of Deforestation
+20% damage to trees

:P