Tone down insect hives. Give the player more time to respond.

[Zanfib]

I like the idea of insect hives, creating a threat that comes from below ground is a good way to balance the advantages of building underground bases.

However the way insects spawn from the hive with no waring seems to be a bit too punishing. I find that hives will spawn in the centre of my colony and kill multiple pawns before I can even get to the pause button. This usually leads to the death of the entire colony as my best fighters are killed before they can organise.

I recommend that the bugs themselves should not spawn until a set period of time after the hive itself spawns or until the hive is attacked, whichever comes first. That way the player will have some warning which they can use to relocate their colony to the far side of the worldmap.

[Aarkreinsil]

They even implemented this to the orbital drop pod raids. Now after the pods land you get a pretty long delay that allows you to reposition your goons. In the earlier alphas they just popped open immediately.
So it really shouldn't be that much different here.

[Vaperius]

I like the idea of insect hives, creating a threat that comes from below ground is a good way to balance the advantages of building underground bases.

However the way insects spawn from the hive with no waring seems to be a bit too punishing. I find that hives will spawn in the centre of my colony and kill multiple pawns before I can even get to the pause button. This usually leads to the death of the entire colony as my best fighters are killed before they can organise.

I recommend that the bugs themselves should not spawn until a set period of time after the hive itself spawns or until the hive is attacked, whichever comes first. That way the player will have some warning which they can use to relocate their colony to the far side of the worldmap.

You hear that Tynan? I think he said "add bugs that explode" to balance the delay in spawn time.

[mumblemumble]

Boomabugs? Bugaboom? Electric Boogaloo?

Actually exploding bugs would probably help.... Ever wonder why kamikazes in serious sam were pretty easy to throw at you endlessly? They blow each other up.

But yes,  they still spawn too fast,  giving them the ship part treatment would be more than fair imo. Maybe still allowing a spawn normally but after 1 hour minimum,  so a hive in the hospital isn't gaurenteed deaths.

[erdrik]

My suggestion would be to spread the initial bugs spawned over a rate of time, rather than all of them just popping in at once after a delay.

That way the Hives aren't completely defenseless, but the initial pop in isn't so overwhelming for whichever poor saps were in the room.

[koisama]

It already works this way, just the delay is really little - only 12 seconds before hives do the initial spawn. It's not much, but actually enough to move your pawns out of the way even if you have to deconstruct a steel wall or two. And it's actually longer than drop pod open time which is roughly 8.5 seconds.

[whoishigh]

Maybe instead of spawning a handful of Megascarabs and a couple of Megaspiders right away, give them some kind of evolution cycle.

For example: the hives appear and within 8-12 seconds spawn a handful of scarabs, after another 15-30 seconds the existing bugs upgrade into spiders and the hives spawn a few more scarabs, etc.

This would give the player time to react and make the event more on par with sieges. Could even rework the bugs themselves so scarabs are roughly equivalent to an angry squirrel/boomrat, spiders similar to a cougar, and a larger, bear/muffalo-sized grandaddy variant.

[Tynan]

It already works this way, just the delay is really little - only 12 seconds before hives do the initial spawn. It's not much, but actually enough to move your pawns out of the way even if you have to deconstruct a steel wall or two. And it's actually longer than drop pod open time which is roughly 8.5 seconds.

This is why I'm confused that this keeps getting brought up. There is a delay, and it's quite unmistakeable if you just pause when you get the infestation letter.

I'm going to rebalance the infestations in general and probably lengthen the delay but there are parts of this I don't get.

[killer117]

Yeah i didnt understand why u guys wanted more delay time. The delays fine, my guys always get out in time. The only problem is that no matter what lvl my guys are at they just arent able to kill them. The only efective tactic ive found is making all the furniture out of wood, and if a bug hive spawns use a molotov and roast them in the room. It only works occasionly, and the thrower usually dies or at least loses a body part, but my 6 charge rifle weilding power armour wearing colonists got shreded in a fair fight so i dunno how else to kill them

[erdrik]

A tactic Ive used is luring them out 1 at a time into a long room or hall with lots of cover for the colonists.

Set the doors to force open, draft all but one of the colonists at the far end of the room or hall, send one to open the door into the bug room. For the first time flee as soon as the door starts to open. The door should stay open and the bugs that spotted the colonist will follow. Lure them over to the long room/hall, and have the bait colonist duck in behind the wall inside the room/hall. It is important for the bait colonist to break sight so that the gunners can grab the bugs attention. Then the bait colonist can fire at the bug freely as it tries to go after the gunners.

For each remaining bait move the bait colonist in front of the bug room, such that he/she doesn't actually enter but can fire into it. Grab another bug and repeat until cleared. I did this with 1 survival rifle, 1 sniper rifle, 1 shotty, and 3 pistols.(no armor)

My only problem with the infestation incident's arrival is the burst of all the bugs when the event happens. I think the length of the initial delay is fine, I just don't like how they all pop in at once. Well that and I would prefer it if flooring had an impact on which room an infestation popped into.

[Tynan]

Yeah i didnt understand why u guys wanted more delay time. The delays fine, my guys always get out in time. The only problem is that no matter what lvl my guys are at they just arent able to kill them. The only efective tactic ive found is making all the furniture out of wood, and if a bug hive spawns use a molotov and roast them in the room. It only works occasionly, and the thrower usually dies or at least loses a body part, but my 6 charge rifle weilding power armour wearing colonists got shreded in a fair fight so i dunno how else to kill them

FYI melee is significantly more effective than guns at close range.

Or, melee line with gun shooters behind, at least.

Everyone still seems focused on guns, but this is how the game is balanced. It just seems like the community hasn't realize it yet.

[Zanfib]

If there is a delay, perhaps the reason most people do not notice it is because the game does not drop the speed to normal as it does with raids and other highly dangerous events.

All I can say is that when running on full speed I don't get enough time to see the event and hit the pause button before the megaspiders come out.

[giannikampa]

Because it is an infestation i would tone it with proper triggers: now there are 3 type of monster and they spawn all together every xx hours.
My tuning idea is that the 3 are spawned at different delay, like this:

the smaller spawned after 5 secs and every 3 hours
the middle spawned after 10 secs and every 5 hours
the bigger spawned after 15 secs and every 7 hours
maybe a cap would keep number of total insects in the map below 5 times the number of colonist

Values could be dynamic based on difficulty level and wealth to keep a proper balancing all along the gameplay.

[Mathenaut]

FYI melee is significantly more effective than guns at close range.

Or, melee line with gun shooters behind, at least.

Everyone still seems focused on guns, but this is how the game is balanced. It just seems like the community hasn't realize it yet.

The problem is that the current ranged mechanics have your colonists as bigger threat/liability than whatever your melee guys are engaging. At present, it simply is not viable to mix the two without some really gimmicky work involved (or powerful shielding).

Also, I don't think the problem is the delay with the bugs, but the delay in when the message pops. By the time the alert pops up, it's about 1/4th into the deployment time.

Compared with raiders, the alert pops up before the pods drop. Maybe have the alert say 'bugs are tunneling through!' or something before the actual hive is spawned?

[Limdood]

I agree that the delay needs to be longer, here's my reason for this:

I've had infestations that I've (at least tried to have) paused immediately, and still been physically unable to move the pawn out of the room in time.  Now i concede that I could have simply been slow on the pausing, as I tend to leave the game in speed 3 between "events."  That being said, i believe most people also leave the game at that speed, so I feel it is still a legitimate concern.

HOWEVER...

I think the delay should only be increased by a couple seconds...2-5 at most, and no more.  Here's my reason for this:

A lengthy delay (excepting people attacking the hive), will give an EASY option of abuse, on the order of things like loading the room with disposable junk, tossing in a molotov, then shooting the hive (or not) and leaving the room.  Currently that same strategy carries some slight risk, and if the bugs AI is altered to eliminate some of the current exploits, that strategy may carry a lot more risk. 

I like the risk and threat that bugs present, but dislike the chance that i just "lose" a colonist randomly.