[WIP] Project Armory

[Plymouth]

Assault Rifles Status: Done!
Number: around 50

[Deimos Rast]

wow, that's an ambitious undertaking. I had a look at it recently to see what was useable, and there is a lot of good stuff there.
Personally, I would split off the themed packs into a separate download. In my opinion, you're likely to get two users mainly: those who want the realistic weapons, and those who want the themed ones, and (just my opinion here) there might not be much cross over between (with some exceptions).
I also noticed it seemed a third of the pack was WH40K stuff, so maybe that warrants it's own pack as well.
Since you seem pretty busy with real life (which is totally undersandable, uni comes first), I don't think anyone will begrudge you if you perform some "triage" and decide what should make it within your realm of interest. You can always expand things later as things become less busy.
Also something to consider: some of these weapons are already being used at this point by other weapons packs. Not saying you can't still use them (since they were your's first), but it might be a better use of energy to focus on "uniques." There are a lot of really good realistic weapons packs out there at the moment.
This turned into a wall of text. Anyway, good luck!

[Plymouth]

wow, that's an ambitious undertaking. I had a look at it recently to see what was useable, and there is a lot of good stuff there.
Personally, I would split off the themed packs into a separate download. In my opinion, you're likely to get two users mainly: those who want the realistic weapons, and those who want the themed ones, and (just my opinion here) there might not be much cross over between (with some exceptions).
I also noticed it seemed a third of the pack was WH40K stuff, so maybe that warrants it's own pack as well.
Since you seem pretty busy with real life (which is totally undersandable, uni comes first), I don't think anyone will begrudge you if you perform some "triage" and decide what should make it within your realm of interest. You can always expand things later as things become less busy.
Also something to consider: some of these weapons are already being used at this point by other weapons packs. Not saying you can't still use them (since they were your's first), but it might be a better use of energy to focus on "uniques." There are a lot of really good realistic weapons packs out there at the moment.
This turned into a wall of text. Anyway, good luck!

That's exactly the plan.
Core pack will be the thematic 20th century pack, 1946-1999 weapons included, then there will be a World War 2 pack (1939-1945), Prohibition Pack(1919-1938), World War 1 pack(1914-1918), Industrial pack(1870-1913), and later, 19th century pack, when I figure out calculations for blackpowder weapons, since there is fuck-all ballistical info on them. That's for realistic.

Then there will be Mass Effect, W40K, Bioshock, Metro, you name it.

[Deimos Rast]

I was looking at the Nexus download version and not the github version, so I didn't realize you already started doing that.

As an aside: I love how we're at the year 5500 and everyone has their heart set on making 20th century weapons. Go figure.
I suppose that's partly because that's what the base game ships with, mechanics-wise.

Edit: What all are you trying to figure out about blackpowder weapons? How exactly would you translate that into the game? I'm curious what your methodology is for getting a gun accurately represented.

[Plymouth]

I was looking at the Nexus download version and not the github version, so I didn't realize you already started doing that.

As an aside: I love how we're at the year 5500 and everyone has their heart set on making 20th century weapons. Go figure.
I suppose that's partly because that's what the base game ships with, mechanics-wise.

Edit: What all are you trying to figure out about blackpowder weapons? How exactly would you translate that into the game? I'm curious what your methodology is for getting a gun accurately represented.

20th century weapon designs are still popular 5500 years later, and it comes from the game itself, wher everyone uses ancient bolt actions and other firearms. Why? because they're easy to make and effective for what they are. There are also energy weapons, and they do sort of get along quite nicely.


I need ballistic information on blackpowder weapons. at least one weapon for a start. I have calculations so that each time I write stats for a gun I'm literally writing in numbers in formulas and get the answer.

For smokeless powder there's plenty of info on barrel length used, energy, muzzle energy and so on, which makes accurate transfer into rimworld quite easy, on blackpowder, like I said, there's fuckall information, and I'll have to build a reference frame for it at some point so that It is accurately represented with proper range, accuracy and velocity curve. Since rimworld already Includes M16, Colt M1911, Lee-Enfield, M24A1 and Uzi it was relatively easy to build reference forumals based on those weapons' parameters, but for blackpowder weapons there is nothing at all. If you want to take a look, formulas are on our github wiki.

If you would like to spare me from writing these drawn-out posts, find me at https://rimworldmod.slack.com/messages/modding-talk/ 

[Razzoriel]

I make mods for another game called 7 Days to Die, and compilated ballistic information on most of the commercial cartidges in the world. It doesn't list the barrel of the gun used to measure them, but averages are always welcome.

According to several Google searches, musket balls weight around 500-600 grains, and have about 0.5-0.7 inches of diameter. The muzzle velocity of a musket ranges from 500 to 750 fps.

This puts muskets as firearms that shoot huge lead balls at low velocities, so overpenetration, IMO, wouldn't be as much of a factor compared to modern projectiles. Since those bullets are also spherical, not spitzer/conical shaped, the area of entrance is also bigger. So what I'm saying is; a musket ball is much more dangerous than any modern firearm against soft targets, but would be greatly reduced in effectiveness against armored targets. Obviously, using steel balls would counter this somewhat, since lead is so soft.

If you want to put it in Rimworld specs, I'd put muskets ranked in slightly below as Sniper Rifles in power, but hugely inaccurate at long and medium distances, with even much slower fire rate.

[Plymouth]

I make mods for another game called 7 Days to Die, and compilated ballistic information on most of the commercial cartidges in the world. It doesn't list the barrel of the gun used to measure them, but averages are always welcome.

According to several Google searches, musket balls weight around 500-600 grains, and have about 0.5-0.7 inches of diameter. The muzzle velocity of a musket ranges from 500 to 750 fps.

This puts muskets as firearms that shoot huge lead balls at low velocities, so overpenetration, IMO, wouldn't be as much of a factor compared to modern projectiles. Since those bullets are also spherical, not spitzer/conical shaped, the area of entrance is also bigger. So what I'm saying is; a musket ball is much more dangerous than any modern firearm against soft targets, but would be greatly reduced in effectiveness against armored targets. Obviously, using steel balls would counter this somewhat, since lead is so soft.

If you want to put it in Rimworld specs, I'd put muskets ranked in slightly below as Sniper Rifles in power, but hugely inaccurate at long and medium distances, with even much slower fire rate.

thanks, I forgot to update- a few weeks ago one generous person supplied me with extensive info on blackpowder ballistics.
Also, the problem with rimworld is that there is no proper penetration system, all damage is either sharp, or blunt, which sucks. There is no "piercing" type of damage or modifier to differentiate swords from arrows/bullets/whatnot.

[MayPeX]

Wouldn't it be possible to call upon numbers that if sharp protection is over a certain threshold it significantly reduces the damage output of the musket shots?

[Nimrod]

I make mods for another game called 7 Days to Die, and compilated ballistic information on most of the commercial cartidges in the world. It doesn't list the barrel of the gun used to measure them, but averages are always welcome.

According to several Google searches, musket balls weight around 500-600 grains, and have about 0.5-0.7 inches of diameter. The muzzle velocity of a musket ranges from 500 to 750 fps.

This puts muskets as firearms that shoot huge lead balls at low velocities, so overpenetration, IMO, wouldn't be as much of a factor compared to modern projectiles. Since those bullets are also spherical, not spitzer/conical shaped, the area of entrance is also bigger. So what I'm saying is; a musket ball is much more dangerous than any modern firearm against soft targets, but would be greatly reduced in effectiveness against armored targets. Obviously, using steel balls would counter this somewhat, since lead is so soft.

If you want to put it in Rimworld specs, I'd put muskets ranked in slightly below as Sniper Rifles in power, but hugely inaccurate at long and medium distances, with even much slower fire rate.

thanks, I forgot to update- a few weeks ago one generous person supplied me with extensive info on blackpowder ballistics.
Also, the problem with rimworld is that there is no proper penetration system, all damage is either sharp, or blunt, which sucks. There is no "piercing" type of damage or modifier to differentiate swords from arrows/bullets/whatnot.

Concerning armor penetration et al - maybe you should have a look at the Combat Realism Source Code - I was away from this game for a while and obviously the main modder of Combat Realism called it quits, but he left his work for others to pick up.
There seems to be a penetration system and even ammo (god how I have waited for something like this) - you might find something you can use!

cheers!

[Plymouth]

Combat realism is the whole other piece of cake, and at first I want to make do with the vanilla systems, with minimal changes. There will be a combat realism version eventually, but I don't want to make it a requirement, not without vanilla version first. 

[Razzoriel]

The big problem with creating weapon mods without CR is, for instance, melee doesn't have that many variables to you to control which weapon can be better at something. It all condenses to the weapon's DPS if you want to use it, and market value/work/material rating if you want to sell it. CR adds armor penetration, weight/bulk and several other small things which give some additional layers of complexity. Best of luck to you, though.

[Plymouth]

The big problem with creating weapon mods without CR is, for instance, melee doesn't have that many variables to you to control which weapon can be better at something. It all condenses to the weapon's DPS if you want to use it, and market value/work/material rating if you want to sell it. CR adds armor penetration, weight/bulk and several other small things which give some additional layers of complexity. Best of luck to you, though.

But I don't want to force people to use it, I want them to have a choice between fleshed out CR version and vanilla, even if vanilla will be vastly inferior to CR. I, myself, will be playing CR version as soon as I get everything done.

[Razzoriel]

What I meant to say is that any mod that attempts a wide selection melee weapons is going to fall on the crux of the issue that DPS is the biggest and only factor in melee weapons that makes them useful. You're doing a great job in separating your mod in two, and it's a shame that the game requires CCL to make combat something more worthwhile.

[Plymouth]

What I meant to say is that any mod that attempts a wide selection melee weapons is going to fall on the crux of the issue that DPS is the biggest and only factor in melee weapons that makes them useful. You're doing a great job in separating your mod in two, and it's a shame that the game requires CCL to make combat something more worthwhile.

Well, it's still alpha. I think there will be a big combat update at some point. Also I haven't been working on it for about a good month or more now, since I've lost my desire for a while. But I'll be back just as usual, it's a matter of time... Simply stressed a bit with university and all the stuff.

[joaonunes]

OOOOOOOO so this mod is not dead yet!!! Huzaaaaaa hope has been restored!!!

How is the state of the mod? What is missing right now? Next week I'll probably be free a couple of days so maybe I can give a hand editing some xmls