[A18] Improved Surgery

[twoski]

Once 1000101 gets a version CCL out for A15 would this mod move to detouring the recipe workers? this is infinitley more compatible and wouldnt require all these patches (these could however be employed if CCL was ever not available for long periods which we are hoping wont happen again).

i really do not like the idea of depending on CCL, maybe someday when it becomes more stable it will be a viable option, but for now RimWorld is still in development and i imagine that CCL will  be out of commission for long periods with each major update.

or maybe with luck tynan will make improvements to modding and CCL won't have to implement this detouring feature.

[skullywag]

CCL is very stable. The issue you have is its time to update which i believe is unfounded as per everyone else who has an issue with that element. Yes its taken longer this alpha but its been a perfect storm, all team members had real life things to deal with and we had very little warning about the release compared to the ones prior. With the new ILSpy and such we should be faster going forward, we are also talking about splitting the library up a little so modders who dont need detours arent left waiting if for some reason we arent as quick as wed like to be.

Tynan is never going to add detouring into core, people need to stop thinking that has any chance of happening, the support cost is just not feasible for him to add it.

All im saying is your current way is not mod compatible hence all the patches, the way im proposing would mean no need for them, but you could use them if for whatever reason CCL is not available. Its win win here for you cant see a reason you wouldnt use it when its available.

But you have your opinion and I have no right to dissuade you from that. So ill leave it there.

[twoski]

I think it would be a good idea to split the pure programmer utility stuff like detouring into another mod since i can't imagine that stuff would be affected too much, if at all, by rimworld updates. Maybe huge updates would change things but overall i think that might be the best way to avoid future downtime.

I don't want to depend on CCL currently because basically every person i know who uses RimWorld mods has been less than happy about CCL being out of commission for a fairly long time. With that downtime, every mod using CCL has been effectively (temporarily) wiped out. Maybe it's irregular but it's still something for me to worry about.

Ultimately a developer has 2 choices. Either they can wait for CCL to update so they can use whatever programmer utility stuff is bundled with it, or they can just do things themselves without worrying about dependencies. I chose the latter based on my own needs, and mainly based on the fact that i don't know when CCL will be updated and i'd rather not wait around.

[skullywag]

But what im saying is you are in a position where you cannot lose, for now continue as you are, when CCL is released you do the detours that are necessary and depend on it, if A16 drops and CCL isnt gonna be updated in your timeframe, you edit your xml and point it at your custom workers, and update your patches (which will have to be done anyway). So now you dont HAVE to wait for CCL but if its up to date you can use and gain all the compatibility that comes with it.

[twoski]

Well once CCL comes out i could make a branch that uses it.

[Thirite]

Just wanted to say kudos for an absolutely essential mod. Cheers

[Serenity]

I'm not quite sure this is really working for me. I still get surgery failures  - and with that cut up body parts - left and right. But I installed it the way it was recommended. Maybe the many patches mess things up:

EPOE
A Dog Said Lite
Realistic Medical System (EPOE)
Improved Surgery
EPOE + RMS + IS patch
A Dog Said Lite + IS patch

The part where prosthetics aren't destroyed works though. Maybe I just expected even less mutilation...

[Dingo]

The question is, are your major or minor failures resulting in body parts being flat out removed for no reason? IS still has failure states, it's not "surgery guaranteed to work", it just makes the failure states way more logical. If you're getting surgical cuts and minor/major infections on failure and you're getting the body part back with less HP then it works as intended.

[Serenity]

I don't think I've had body parts being removed yet. Nobody has died from surgeries. That's good. In vanilla that probably would have happened already.

Didn't get an infection yet. But lots and lots of cuts. I suppose I expected the cuts to be rarer and infections more common.

EDIT:
Well, scratch that. My level 18 surgeon just killed someone during a lung transplant. In a sterile room on a good hospital bed with normal medicine 

Apparently he removed her neck(?!), her left arm and her right kidney. WTF?! Oh, and she was his daughter. I think I'm gonna stop playing iron man...

[Dingo]

Death on surgery isn't removed. You still have "deathOnFailedSurgeryChance"... It sounds like it's working fine for you, just bad RNG. You could just describe your ideal surgery mod maybe twoski will implement some changes to the code if it's a good suggestion.

[Serenity]

Maybe make the chance skill dependent? That low level surgeons screw up is ok. Especially with complicated operations. But above a certain point deaths should not happen during routine surgeries (unless maybe when you operate on the brain or something like that). Especially not like that.

[Thirite]

Maybe make the chance skill dependent? That low level surgeons screw up is ok. Especially with complicated operations. But above a certain point deaths should not happen during routine surgeries (unless maybe when you operate on the brain or something like that). Especially not like that.

Agreed. I don't have much free time to play so I've not experienced this myself- but a doctor level 10~ or higher shouldn't have a chance to kill a patient on a simple procedure. 15 should remove the chance on organ transplant, and at 20 remove the risk of failure completely.

[twoski]

i never messed with the surgery failure chances. i can share the algorithm here and maybe someone can come up with a better way that makes high level surgeons less likely to fail. currently, surgery failure is based off of skill, type of medicine used, cleanliness of the room, and i think that vitals monitors and hospital beds can buff this as well.

and yes, it it still possible to kill people on critical failures. maybe i could tweak this to be more common for rookie surgeons and less common for pros.

i will share some of the algorithms here later today when i get time.

[BetaSpectre]

+1
The mod or the update in rimworld seemed to have increased my chance of surgery fails xD, but I like how it's "realistic"

[faltonico]

I ragequited my current A16 colony because fixing a toe chopped up the whole leg of one of my pawns...
I refuse to play without this mod now... I went back to my A15 colony -_-'