[1.0] Children and Pregnancy - v0.5b (2019/Feb/25)

[Meatbomb]

@Xenophobe
I'll probably add in an options menu for different timescale modes eventually. Right now I want to find an all around middleground that works best at default. Then users could later select "fast development" in the options or something.

Dear Thirite, first of all I want to say this is excellent work you are doing, and I am really impressed and eager to include this mod very soon.

I know it is very late in the discussion, but I have read almost this entire thread and wanted to comment on development time / speed:

The Rimworld year is 4 quadrums each of 15 days.  So that is a 60 day year.

You can go from nothing to an entire interstellar starship in maybe 5 to 10 years depending on your effort as a player.

You can go from stone age to fully developed tech tree in 2 to 3 years with the right research team and policy.

All of this is to say that time is VERY relative in Rimworld, and it seems to me the main design decision is to make the actions occurring in-game fun and interesting at the timescale of the game... realism is really not a high factor on list!

I think the development cycle for kids should be pretty fast.  If someone has a baby, we as players want to see that development and "leveling up" of that new child pawn within the context of the normal game... and games do not seem to usually last 20 years in-game time.

So just adding in my own thoughts.
"Newborn" should last a few days.
"Toddler" should last maybe a year at most.
"Preteen but useful pawn" should happen over 2-3 years.
"Teen" that is 14 and ready to be left to all normal game rules should be resulting after all of these stages, so maybe 3-4 years development time.

The "growing vat" sounds like a potential add-on option, but should be very late in the tech tree.

Thanks again for all of the excellent development work, this mod is quite an incredible accomplishment!

[DariusWolfe]

I haven't commented yet, and I haven't tried the mod yet, but I've been following it with interest for a bit. I'm commenting now to politely disagree with Meatbomb's suggestion/request to make the timescales shorter.

My typical Rimworld colony lasts maybe a couple years. This isn't because I die, but because I get bored; Once I get to a certain stable point, the game loses a lot of its fun for me. The primary reason I've been following this thread with interest is because I see children as a way to extend the game, give it some point beyond the first few years.

While many people don't see it this way, and are able to enjoy a game 5-10+ years in, I have a feeling that my paradigm of deleting and restarting periodically isn't exactly rare. Having a reason to extend a game beyond the 2-3 year mark is something that I feel the game really needs; Increasingly harder raids just doesn't cut it.

I have a feeling that protecting, nurturing and raising children just might.

[Rimrue]

DariusWolfe, you really should install this mod now! It's already super stable compared to some other mods and adds soooo much to the game.

Also, in response to the idea of shortening kids' lives: colonists already age one rim-year at a time. It only makes sense that this mod would follow the same pattern.

[JT]

Also, a lot people who played Banished (myself included) weren't the biggest fans of one chronological year aging people by 3/5/7 biological years.

Likewise for The Guild 2, where each season was considered a year.  It "worked" in the context of the game, since you could become reasonably rich and gain a fully upgraded business in just a couple in-game years, and the whole point was to make a dynasty.  Thus, you only had about 50-80 "turns" before your character would kick off, rather than a few hundred.  However, it just felt so darned wrong from an intuitive and realism standpoint.  Since the game is ancient, mod support is all over the place, and every mod I ever tried that attempted to enable realistic aging progression was incompatible or just plainly didn't work at all.  At one point I managed to hack something together from an outdated mod and got it working -- people would only officially increase in age by one year every winter -- but since modding for that game is always directly overwriting the "core", I lost all my changes when I installed someone else's mod.  Gah. =P

I therefore fully endorse any option to have a "reasonable" default so long as we have a realistic range option as well.  I'd prefer not to have to hack anything, because as far as hacks go, I am one. =)

[Pickle]

I just began to use this mod and it's one of my favorite already. Great job !
Some random stuff I noticed so far :

- Babies need clothes, really, I'm playing on an ice sheet and I'm just lucky to have some geothermal generators inside of my base, so I can throw the baby in the room when there is a solar flare and it stays more or less warm, but it's stressful.
- Every women is able to breastfeed the baby, which is weird.
- There is no mood penalty when a woman miscarried due to poor health.
- Raiders are sending children in the battlefield with no weapons, but I'm using Combat Extended so perhaps this is causing the issue ? I'll make some tests.
- The baby I have did a alcohol binge and try to go outside, as it was -30°C I arrested her and she goes into jail (she is one year old). The game became really laggy all of a sudden. I didn't undersand and thought I just had too many mods, but when the baby has been released the fps went back to normal instantly.

[GIFShinobi]

I haven't commented yet, and I haven't tried the mod yet, but I've been following it with interest for a bit. I'm commenting now to politely disagree with Meatbomb's suggestion/request to make the timescales shorter.

My typical Rimworld colony lasts maybe a couple years. This isn't because I die, but because I get bored; Once I get to a certain stable point, the game loses a lot of its fun for me. The primary reason I've been following this thread with interest is because I see children as a way to extend the game, give it some point beyond the first few years.

While many people don't see it this way, and are able to enjoy a game 5-10+ years in, I have a feeling that my paradigm of deleting and restarting periodically isn't exactly rare. Having a reason to extend a game beyond the 2-3 year mark is something that I feel the game really needs; Increasingly harder raids just doesn't cut it.

I have a feeling that protecting, nurturing and raising children just might.

Feel free to watch my videos i'm doing a let's play with this mod at the moment. It does give you a sense of "Oh shit i need to survive/thrive so that the babies can live!". But for the first 2 years of their life they are useless. Also my play through is a Tribal community so things are slow and the amount of babies are increasing lol . .  its getting harder to maintain sometimes.

[hiphopafrica]

How about growth hormones or steroids? Drugs you can take to accelerate growth, would be good for tribes to be able to trade for them because I'm assuming growth vats are far down the tech tree.

[HunterAlpha1]

Is there an ETA on cribs being implemented?  I am sick and tired of all these babies taking up all my hospital beds.  Or at least some way to prevent pawns from carrying babies to hospital beds, as those should be reserved for people who are actually sick and injured.

[Rimrue]

The art for the crib is already there. I'm tempted to just add an XML file to get it working. It would mean adults could use it too, but at least then babies wouldn't occupy regular medical beds.

[Challengingreality]

Found a bug.

In A17 my pawns keep aborting the Lovin' action, even to go so far as to wake one of them up.  I've played the game with just this mod installed to see if it was a mod conflict with the same result.  I've played it over different spans of time to see if it would still allow pregnancy, but so far in all my tests there hasn't been a single one, and I think its because of the aborted lovin' action.

Here's the bug report.

Could not reserve Thing_DoubleBed12590/ for Rick doing job Lovin A=Thing_Human400 B=Thing_DoubleBed12590(curToil=1) for maxPawns 2 and stackCount -1. Existing reserver: Sparks doing job Lovin A=Thing_Human381 B=Thing_DoubleBed12590(curToil=4)
Verse.Log:Error(String)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:LogCouldNotReserveError(Pawn, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:Reserve(Pawn, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef)
Verse.AI.ReservationUtility:Reserve(Pawn, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef)
Verse.AI.<Reserve>c__AnonStorey4F7:<>m__7DF()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil()
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1)
RimWorldChildren.<_MakeNewToils>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__1()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil()
RimWorld.<GotoBed>c__AnonStorey271:<>m__EF()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil()
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:CheckForJobOverride()
RimWorld.<LayDown>c__AnonStorey27F:<>m__109()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick()
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick()
Verse.Pawn:Tick()
Verse.TickList:Tick()
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick()
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate()
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay()
Verse.Root_Play:Update()

[Thirite]

@Rimrue
Regarding cribs, they're not finished yet- so if you enable them you'll just get a weirdly small bed that anyone can sleep in. The base class for the Bed object is infuriatingly closed off in terms of making derived classes so I'll have to use Harmony to change it I guess.

@Challengingreality
Ah great. I think I saw this error before but only once- thanks for the report though.

[Rimrue]

I know. I'm still tempted. Once they are in the bed no one else is going to take it from them and once they can crawl, I can just assign it to them.

Also there's nothing stopping adults in real life from sleeping in a crib. So it's not totally unrealistic if adults still *can* sleep in one. Ridiculous as it is.

[Challengingreality]

Is there anything I can do to fix it on my end? 

[Thirite]

Outside disabling the mod unfortunately not. Otherwise you could prevent the pawns from sleeping in the same bed I suppose.

[Challengingreality]

I didn't have the error until updating to the current version.
I like the mod so I'll keep it.  I guess I"ll just cheat them into pregnancy XD.
It did work in A16, so I think its just an A17  bug that happened.

I appreciate all the work you've done on this mod.
Also, just realized I"m using an outdated version 0.2A.  Updating now to see if that fixes the bug.