[1.0] Children and Pregnancy - v0.5b (2019/Feb/25)

[XeoNovaDan]

Another thing I've noticed is that when loading a save back up, children will drop their equipped weapons

[Thirite]

Weird. I just spawn about 20 3000pt raids and though I saw a dozen children among them, not a single one was spawned dead. I'm still going to disable children from appearing in raids though- but that's not going to fix traders spawning dead kids.

@XeoNovaDan:
I just confirmed kids dropping weapons on game load. Weird, since it never happened in A15. Edit: Just had a look at the save file, and the game does properly save the equipment for the children. Something on game load makes them drop it.

[XeoNovaDan]

If I had to theorise, it's possibly down to the game itself not recognising the children as pawns initially? Seeing as the vanilla minimum age is registered as 15 years (although 14 years is possible but rare), and children would be significantly younger.

Edit: Also, how's this for being a badass? The prisoner is 37 years old for reference (I had to get rid of my original 2 children + teen colony because of a semi-game-breaking bug where butchering creatures won't yield their things. Not linked to this mod though)

[Thirite]

> If I had to theorise, it's possibly down to the game itself not recognising the children as pawns initially?
That's what I initially thought too, but couldn't find anything in the decompiled source hinting at that. After some quick tests I noticed for the first tick before unpausing a loaded savegame, if you tell a child to pick up the dropped weapon it will say "X is incapable". Which makes me suspect they are getting the "incapable of everything" toddler backstory for at least one frame.

[Cassiopea]

A couple of questions and notes.

Do the pregnancy roll occurs immediately after lovin'? Or does it enter a hidden state and only fires the got pregnant message when they are middle stage pregnant? I'm suspecting the latter or otherwise Carly just got impregnated by a ghost. (Father away on camping / wood chopping trip with the first daughter.)

The standing in place bug isn't an artifact of your mod, I'd say. I've encountered it countless times before and I think it's tied to the job resolution algorithm getting overloaded and not being able to assign work to pawns.

The dead children raiders on arrival doesn't happen all the time on my tests. Some spawn just fine. Maybe it's related to their loadout? They do spawn with zero gear that could be tied to toddler/baby status firing at the wrong time. Maybe the game just doesn't handle these two stages? I mean, instead of a  6+ years old child, it tries to spawn a toddler/baby and runs into an age/gear error that results in a child?

And, to counteract some of the previous discussions regarding how implementing children would be morally iffy (hi there cowboy hats), having a toddler move around carefree in the colony is the most adorable thing I've ever seen in rimworld. Got them a pet jackalope from your taiga mod and it's the cutest friends ever. Any raider approaching the colony is now met with an even more lethal firepower so don't you dare touch my babies or just entertain the thought of abusing them. <.<


And finally, I've just encountered the butcher creatures not yielding anything bug. Never had it before and it started occurring when I created a second colony. (Lumber outpost) Any ideas where that may come from? I'm noticing all kind of weird behaviors like ghost blueprints and so on on the second map. I guess it's normal since I'm stretching the game to the limits here.

>Edit: Yep, I've abandoned my second outpost and now back at base, butchering works fine again.

[Thirite]

@Cassiopea
> Or does it enter a hidden state and only fires the got pregnant message when they are middle stage pregnant?
It has a short period where it remains hidden until the "early stage", same as animal pregnancy. Of course there is a bug in the vanilla game that lets you remove hidden hediffs, so right now you can see if the "perform abortion" operation is available whether or not the pregnancy hediff is visible.

Good to know the standing in place bug isn't my fault. I've got enough bugs to deal with already.

Glad to hear you like how children add to the colony, it's certainly not the purpose for children to be there just to butcher and cannibalize for lulz. Like I've said or implied before though, I really don't care about whatever people crying about "muh killable children muh morals" are saying, they're no better than the SJWs at Rock Paper Shotgun crying about heteronormative relationship code. They're both the same kind of Anita Sarkeesian-tier "has no other purpose or value in life other than whining about non-issues in a videogame".

[lilymortis]

Loving the mod. So far I've got one pregnant colonist, and one 7 year old prisoner who appeared as a single raider (peg leg too, what have the bloody pirates done to the poor wee mite?). I did have one dead 12 year old on the map, I think they spawned in dead, they had no injuries, but that was possibly on the first mod version.

[Tammabanana]

Yay! Hope to have more time to playtest this weekend; I've Prepared Carefully a 10-person homesteader colony that's half kids and one of the moms is mid-stage pregnant. I'm restarting it, though, on account of other-mod weirdness, and disabling that mod mid-game appears to be unworkable. The story I've got so far is from a kind of combined that-mod's-bug plus the Children mod's tantrums.

A visitor pawn, apparently introduced by a Mo'Events event, was just hanging around at the edge of the colony forever, with plenty of food in her pockets that she wasn't eating. So she's starving, and her mood drops to zero, and... she throws a tantrum. She started whaling on the side of the barn with her club until finally she keeled over from starvation.

Pretty sure most of that was a Mo'Events bug. My question for this mod: are grown-ups intended to be able to have tantrums? Are visitors intended to be able to have tantrums?

(I could go either way on whether they should/shouldn't; that was unexpected, but hilarious.)

[Tammabanana]

@Cassiopea
> Or does it enter a hidden state and only fires the got pregnant message when they are middle stage pregnant?
It has a short period where it remains hidden until the "early stage", same as animal pregnancy. Of course there is a bug in the vanilla game that lets you remove hidden hediffs, so right now you can see if the "perform abortion" operation is available whether or not the pregnancy hediff is visible.

If there could be some sort of "Test for pregnancy" operation that could reveal the early-stage pregnancy early, that would be cool. Also an  "Induce birth" operation, for a middle/late-stage pregnancy where the mother's injuries are bad enough to risk miscarriage/death. The more premature the baby is, the higher its risk for immediate survival and for chronic illnesses. (I think a lot of lung/eye development happens in the last few months... I'd have to look it up, which are the most common risks.)

IMO, early-stage should also be revealable randomly, as well as testable - with the chance of the reveal rising as time passes, and rising with each pregnancy symptom experienced. Some pregnancies are hard to detect initially, but others make themselves known quite quickly. I was having migraines and nausea within the first few weeks of my first (planned) pregnancy, and existing pee-tests can confirm pregnancy like ~2 weeks from conception. (They tend to say something like, "within days of your first missed period"; doctors officially date the beginning of a pregnancy back to the date of your last known period because that's something that's easy to pinpoint, but the actual conception happens ~halfway between the periods. So, like, detectable at 2 weeks.)

The pee-test is basically just chromatography - put the right chemical/dye-thing on the right kind of paper, and if the hormones in your pee attach to that, they carry the dye up the paper. A Doctor colonist could probably cobble one together out of wood and medicine. A Doctor colonist could probably also take a pretty good guess just by a checkup, though.

[KageNoOni]

> If I had to theorise, it's possibly down to the game itself not recognising the children as pawns initially?
That's what I initially thought too, but couldn't find anything in the decompiled source hinting at that.

There's a mod called CryptoRestore Casket, it reverses the age of colonists you put inside.  I accidentally left a man named Young in the casket too long (yes, I recognize the coincidental name).  He came out 8 years old.  He continued to function as any other colonist, having lost no ability or skill during that time.  Still able to equip weapons, still cooked and hunted.  Having seen young pawn behavior outside of your mod, I can say the game doesn't appear to treat under 15 pawns any differently than pawns at 15+.  I don't think there is anything that treats pawns differently based on age, aside from age related illnesses.

Also, not at home yet, so I can't try out the mod.  Do you have baby gates or something similar that can be constructed to block the pathing of infants and toddlers?

[Thirite]

I've since fixed the bug with children dropping their weapons. Complicated answer for how, but suffice to say it's fixed.

@Tammabanana
Yeah, Tantrums for children aren't even added by this mod yet so it's bound to be another mod causing it.

As for the visibility of it I totally agree. I'll have to integrate a proper pregnancy discovery system.

@KageNoOni
Baby gates are a pretty good idea. Probably something I will have to make down the line.

[XeoNovaDan]

Only possible issue I can see with tantrums is that it may conflict with Psychology and More Mental Breaks

[mimib14]

Sounds pretty cool! Just downloaded it, gonna try it out now.

I was wondering a couple of things:
1) Are there any plans to add something like artificial insemination? Like, a medical procedure that has the standard chance to induce pregnancy.
2) How does this interact with Fluffy's 'The Birds and the Bees' mod? I don't know myself, haven't added this one yet, so I'm not sure if Fluffy's mod affects the mechanics in this mod.

[lilymortis]

Right, I've currently got a trader caravan onsite, all of them seem to starving and because of this, are throwing tantrums, beserking and dying. I'm not running mo'events like the previous poster though.

Update. I passed that trader caravan to world, removed the trading spot and then devved another trade caravan. These traders came, traded and left normally. So perhaps it's a problem/conflict with the trading spot?

[Thirite]

@mimib14
1: I've been considering it, yeah. Conversely, I would also have a doctoring task of, "Acquire gene sample" which would work on either gender, effectively allowing a lesbian couple to have a genetic child of their own.

2: Can't say for sure as I haven't used it. Though it might be interesting to make male colonists incapable of Lovin' if they had their family tree blown off. I don't know exactly what B&Bs adds, but it would be preferable to have the pregnancy affect the uterus rather than the torso.

@lilymortis
Strange. I'm hoping it's not a fault of my code, but it very well could be. The only way my mod currently changes the pawn job giving behaviour is by stopping toddlers from trying to wear clothing, which shouldn't even affect anyone but your own colonists.

@Tammabanana
Yeah, I'll have to see how those mods work. If they don't detour anything but just add new types of breaks, adding temper tantrums exclusively for children shouldn't cause any conflicts- as I'll absolutely need to detour the code responsible for giving pawns mental breaks.