Too formulaic, no true diversity --- Add diversity of colony style

[Lightzy]

Yeah every playthrough is radically different.
But it's different mostly because of "THE HAND OF GOD" and not because of actual player choice.
(Most players will simply try to play the most efficiently, so I'm not talking about your 'all lesbian grandmas hashish factory' playthrough.)
What really needs to be added to this game is variety in terms of SPECIALIZATION and the rewarding of colony specialization through the economic system and in general, to make the player feel that his colony is special and performs a certain set function in the world. From a raider base to a mega-church.

Here are the steps wot need be taken:

1) Add more plant, earth, resource, mineral, animal types.
2) Disperse all those plant, earth, mineral, resource, animal types on the worldmap at generation. (SPECIALIZATION because no colony will have everything, or even close.)
3) Make crafting/building/research cost these resource types in a MUCH more complex manner. 
     --- For example, for an M16 you'll need steel (or some better metal), plastics, the ingredients of gunpowder and the tech, bullets (m16s are rather simple I guess).
     --- For shield generators you'll need some special rare crystals, some magnetized special mineral etc, some other kind of metallic ore, rare stuff
4) Make certain crops proper for cultivation on certain earth types. SPECIALIZATION because no colony will be able to grow all the same crops. Few places are good for growing strawberries or grapes properly. Player understands that to make a heroin lab he'll need a place that's good for growing poppy, which probably won't be able to grow healroots, and so on and so forth)

TRADE is now important and each colony specialized in what it can produce locally or with the aid of trade for raw goods.
So before we had every colony the same in potential.
Now we have a trade system that's more realistic and forces specialization to an extent.


So what next?

5) Add pawn skill trees and XP, making the player able to specialize pawns with certain unique abilities as they gain XP.

6) Add the ability to teach skills from pawn to pawn. Tutelage of skills becomes a marketable ability (perhaps you can send a pawn to a militaristic colony to be taught how to shoot, perhaps a colony asks if you could teach their colonists how to dance for a monthly fee. PLAY A DANCE SCHOOL COLONY!)

7) Make the science tree longer and such that choosing certain directions soft-exludes other directions (making them much more costly to research).
For example, if your colony focuses research heavily on medicine, it can research laser weapons, but it will be much more costly.
Thus forcing the player into choice, without excluding him from anything.
This, perhaps, can also be done by having the researcher pawn himself become more specialized in certain fields of study to the exclusion of others.

Make colony health/happiness depend also on food variety, thus a colony in a sandy beach subsisting mostly on kelp and fishing will need to import some other stuff to get by

This will make each colony more unique in function and in the economic system. A colony focusing on weapons tech will be able to produce, sell, train with better weapons, but will require trade for medicine and other stuff, unless it spends a lot of time also researching all the other stuff!  Unlike what stupid people think, putting restrictions like this on the player by the system itself makes the experience much more interesting than leaving everything open, which ends up just creating the same scenario over and over again.

ETC ETC

In short, think up ways to make each playthrough more focused by soft-limiting choice and rewarding colony specialization, thus also making trade something that the game actually needs instead of something no colony really ever needs.

[NiftyAxolotl]

Sounds like a cool mod! If you make it, I'll play it

[b0rsuk]

I agree the game plays formulaic. Few biomes require you to adapt. In practical terms, there are only a few biomes!

* ice sheet. You can't farm outside of hydroponics or potatoes in gravel. Very cold, no wood or animals.
* biomes with winter and soil.
* year round growing zones

Rainforest has a lot of disease. But yes, that's it. All the biomes. Some have a bit more wood, but wood is not a very valuable resource. Animals don't make much difference unless you're into training war beasts. A desert is similar to a biome with winter, but easier (solar flares don't KILL your plants; you can put hydroponic tables outside). There are no important resources unique to any particular biome. There are few unique dangers.

Also, there are NO strategically important map features, which results in players simply replacing a chunk of the map with their base. There are no rewards for building near certain features (like a fishing cabin near water), no ground that can't support buildings. There's marsh and mud, but they appear in large chunks like lakes of shallow water and are easy to avoid. Mountain bases don't need a large farming area outside or meaningfully big power station outside. It's all easy to wall off.

[Fleurs]

Adding "diversity" of play, by killing the self-sufficient way of playing a colony?

[Ilya]

I've created an account just to say how much I agree with this thread. It would add so much replayability and fun to an already amazing game. More ways to defend your base without killboxes would be pretty nice too.

[Canute]

Thats why alot of mod exist.
Serveral mods add/change some feautures you didn't got before.
And the king of all mod is the modpack Hardcore-SK, when you play it the first time it feels like you play a total different Rimworld.

And don't forget, the main goal at Rimworld is still to leave the planet, not to create the biggest colony or to conquere the planet.
Sure the goal might change at further release, but currently thats the one and only goal.

[b0rsuk]

I feel like too much design effort is put into adding "more colors" to the game - differently named animals (which are almost all comfortable until exactly 50*C, or something like that). Differently named plants that do the same thing. Differently looking shallow water - pardon, marsh, mud.

I think biomes should be designed with gameplay effect in mind. Each animal, plant, or item should be added to encourage slightly different player behavior. We already have a billion of leather types, and functionally indistinguishable floors and furniture.

[Lowkey1987]

At first it sounds nice. But it seems you have to double the work already done for the game. Simply add more new stuff and change existing stuff will take much more work because every new feature have to be well tested.

The game supports mods really well which gives each game new possibilitys. And mods are the way to add all this stuff. Of course it would be nice if everything is already in the vanilla game. But the devs do a great job in adding features, which a modder could expend.
The vanilla expirience is good and you can repeat it some times until you need spicy mods. I have played for a really long time now. I hope the devs concentrate on bug hunt and change bad things (make trading great again!).

But when i look back, i am happy with the game 😊 Dont need the specialization of colonies.

[asanbr]

I like some of your ideas. But some of them seem to expect that pawns never die.

I don't want a skill tree like final fantasy X, when at the same time RNG can pretty much kill anyone without warning or ways to save their life.

[O Negative]

B0rsuk is right about the redundancy of "different colors" of the same thing.

However, there are a lot of potential (easily-implementable) dynamics that would make each playthrough less formulaic.

Mechanoids
The lore behind Mechanoids and their creation has so much potential for gameplay elements. Mechanoids are somehow gathering resources and producing copies of themselves through some means. The ability to reverse-engineer/research and construct mechanoid technology of all flavors (production, defense, etc.) would better reward players for surviving encounters with them. Potentially, only certain discoveries can be made about Mechanoids, and the possible reasons are actually really interesting if you're creative enough.

Tech Trees and Discovery
When implemented appropriately, tech trees that only allow you to research certain technologies can make each playthrough a unique experience. The main problem with this is the frustration associated with not being able to unlock those technologies. The best solution to that problem, in my experience, is to create windows of opportunity to discover those locked technologies through exploration and trade. The element of decision making remains relevant, and the late-game becomes a quest for knowledge for the curious!

Biodiversity and Animal Husbandry
The biodiversity and lore in RimWorld offer a lot of options for future development and playthrough choices with respect to biomes you spend time in. In my opinion, more exploring needs to be done with practical animal uses. Creatures of great physical endurance would make great war companions. Those that apply disease (i.e. Toxic Buildup) through attacks could be made an integral process of creating useful resources and interesting weaponry; zoological discoveries have been key to medical breakthroughs in the past.

Disease
I can't stress enough how much I'd love to see communicable disease in this game because of all of the interesting choices that come from having such a dynamic system. Having to choose whether or not to attempt to save your best cook/shot/etc, risking your medical force, or to simply quarantine those individuals until they die or recover. The idea of raiders taking a ransom from you, only to find that the prisoner they returned was intentionally infected with the flu prior to their release. Players deciding whether or not to invest in medically preventative measures based on how xenophilic/xenophobic they are is interesting and dynamic.

Faction Interactions
The devs are currently working hard on this, it seems, and it's incredibly exciting. Interacting with factions on a deeper level with elements that are both in and out of your control will make playthroughs seem more dynamic. The possibilities are endless here, so I don't think I'll try too hard to list which ideas I think are the best.

Mods?
Mods are great, but they're often unbalanced. Most mods that aren't simple UI/AI changes make the game easier for the player. Using "mods" as an excuse for the developers to not include something in the base game is a bit lame. That's not to say that some things shouldn't just be left to mods, we all know those ideas definitely exist. We just need to be careful how often we use that argument...

TL;DR
I agree with Lightzy's statement that the devs should "...think up ways to make each playthrough more focused by soft-limiting choice and rewarding colony specialization..."

[SpaceDorf]

In addition i noticed that most threats a colony has to face are actively targetted at the
colony and has the player on defense all the time.

There are not many passive threats outside of food and anger management, that require the player to actively work on a solution.

[Lowkey1987]

B0rsuk is right about the redundancy of "different colors" of the same thing.

However, there are a lot of potential (easily-implementable) dynamics that would make each playthrough less formulaic.

Mechanoids
The lore behind Mechanoids and their creation has so much potential for gameplay elements. Mechanoids are somehow gathering resources and producing copies of themselves through some means. The ability to reverse-engineer/research and construct mechanoid technology of all flavors (production, defense, etc.) would better reward players for surviving encounters with them. Potentially, only certain discoveries can be made about Mechanoids, and the possible reasons are actually really interesting if you're creative enough.

Tech Trees and Discovery
When implemented appropriately, tech trees that only allow you to research certain technologies can make each playthrough a unique experience. The main problem with this is the frustration associated with not being able to unlock those technologies. The best solution to that problem, in my experience, is to create windows of opportunity to discover those locked technologies through exploration and trade. The element of decision making remains relevant, and the late-game becomes a quest for knowledge for the curious!

Biodiversity and Animal Husbandry
The biodiversity and lore in RimWorld offer a lot of options for future development and playthrough choices with respect to biomes you spend time in. In my opinion, more exploring needs to be done with practical animal uses. Creatures of great physical endurance would make great war companions. Those that apply disease (i.e. Toxic Buildup) through attacks could be made an integral process of creating useful resources and interesting weaponry; zoological discoveries have been key to medical breakthroughs in the past.

Disease
I can't stress enough how much I'd love to see communicable disease in this game because of all of the interesting choices that come from having such a dynamic system. Having to choose whether or not to attempt to save your best cook/shot/etc, risking your medical force, or to simply quarantine those individuals until they die or recover. The idea of raiders taking a ransom from you, only to find that the prisoner they returned was intentionally infected with the flu prior to their release. Players deciding whether or not to invest in medically preventative measures based on how xenophilic/xenophobic they are is interesting and dynamic.

Faction Interactions
The devs are currently working hard on this, it seems, and it's incredibly exciting. Interacting with factions on a deeper level with elements that are both in and out of your control will make playthroughs seem more dynamic. The possibilities are endless here, so I don't think I'll try too hard to list which ideas I think are the best.

Mods?
Mods are great, but they're often unbalanced. Most mods that aren't simple UI/AI changes make the game easier for the player. Using "mods" as an excuse for the developers to not include something in the base game is a bit lame. That's not to say that some things shouldn't just be left to mods, we all know those ideas definitely exist. We just need to be careful how often we use that argument...

TL;DR
I agree with Lightzy's statement that the devs should "...think up ways to make each playthrough more focused by soft-limiting choice and rewarding colony specialization..."

I dont know how you come up with "easy to implement". Every point of you, good suggestions, have new mechanics which you have to build. Have to be tested.

Not every mod is balance means some mods are well balanced. I dont see a problem with them because they will keep the game alive when Ludeon moved on to new projects.
Also, the developer didnt use this excuse, i did. Because there are hundreds of ideas which should be in the vanilla game. But this is impossible if you left mods aside.

Even the tech tree is nice atm. Players use different approaches (like tribals who rush devilstrang/ rush climatech). Every colony will end at the same tech. And every player can decide which way he will take.


My problem here is, simplyfied:
1 It seems to me, you want a similiar other game than me.
2 "Easy little" changes will drag ressources from new, perhaps suprising, things.

I like the suggestions, by the way. They could be interisting. But it seems like this:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=34265.0
A great list which will surley make the game a better one. Perhaps.

On mobil typing is a pain.. sry for spelling errors. Hope this make my side of the argument clearer.

[b0rsuk]

Just fleshing out faction TYPES would do a lot to diversify playthroughs. Mechanoids happen in every single game. Optional enemy factions are tribes and pirates. They have some diversity, but tribal diversity barely goes past "strength in numbers". Tribes are treated as inferior peoples, not low level / pre-industrial types. There's nothing they can do better, not even taming animals or finding exotic plants.

And that's just enemies. Does it matter if you're an ally to outlanders or tribes ? Hardly. There's a ton of work to do here.

How would you diversify outlanders vs pirates ? Technically you can be at war with outlanders, but they're just like pirates minus a few advanced weapons.

How about medieval factions ? How would you make them distinct ? Knights (on horseback), with shields, but what does it mean in practice ? If just different appearance and more HP, that's boring. I think euro-medieval groups should be relatively well armored, but slow, and I don't mean slow in battle, but things like "always prepare before attack". They should have siege engines like battering rams, and catapults/balistae with relatively short range. Killing the leader should make the entire raid disperse (but why should THIS be unique to medievals?).

Ideally, individual instances of faction archetype (for example 2 different tribes) should be different. Tribe A likes to wear mufallo leather, tribe B is pigskin. Tribe A has alpaca as its sacred animal, tribe B - monkey. If one of these sacred animals dies on your map, it's -2 relation with that faction.

Outlanders could have slightly different apparel preferences. One town mostly wears top hats, the other is cowboy hats or even tuques (unless it's not right for the temperature). One dresses mostly in dusters, another in jackets. One town trades in alcohol, another focuses on cattle or grain.

Pirates could have preferences for certain weapons. One group would really like shotguns, another - always wear helmets.

[O Negative]

I dont know how you come up with "easy to implement". Every point of you, good suggestions, have new mechanics which you have to build. Have to be tested.

From a coding perspective, most of what I've put forward isn't overly complicated. I've done some of those things in my own personal mods. I haven't published a lot of them on any public forums/services because I got tired of having overcomplicated suggestions thrown at me (IRONY). Philosophically, I admit it might be a lot harder to make these things interact with existing systems in a meaningful way, which is important.

Not every mod is balance means some mods are well balanced. I dont see a problem with them because they will keep the game alive when Ludeon moved on to new projects.
Also, the developer didnt use this excuse, i did. Because there are hundreds of ideas which should be in the vanilla game. But this is impossible if you left mods aside.

Oh, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was accusing Tynan or any other developer of this game of using that excuse. I just know it's been used in the past by other devs. And, your arguments are fair.

My problem here is, simplyfied:
1 It seems to me, you want a similiar other game than me.
2 "Easy little" changes will drag ressources from new, perhaps suprising, things.

I like the suggestions, by the way. They could be interisting. But it seems like this:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=34265.0
A great list which will surley make the game a better one. Perhaps.

Oh geeze, I try not to be that person

I guess it's easy to get carried away with overcomplicated suggestions. RimWorld is a game of infinite possibilities. You could almost call it the foundation for just about any game you want it to be, and I guess that's where mods come into play.

[b0rsuk]

Oh geeze, I try not to be that person

You can tell at a glance they're bad suggestions because they're not even grouped by category. The person posting them is either lazy, or not capable of coherent thinking, or both.