CE - Is the armour system broken?

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

Alright I know some of you looked at the title and were thinking that I meant that the system is not working.
I don't mean that, I just mean that at times the system is straight up ridiculous.
Heres an example.
I did a test with a colonist who had these items
- Mac 10 (250 bullets)
- Ballistic Shield
- Power Armour
- Power Armour Helmet
- Tactical Vest
- Backpack
He was able to run into a horde of 50 tribal, or 25 raiders, and take them all on. The only reason he wasn't able to kill more than thirty was because I didn't give him enough ammo, but he has the capacity to hold over 500 bullets.
Now not only is this ridiculous, but its straight out busted, overpowered, and exploitable considering with an outdoor colony I got this setup at day 90 on one of my colonists.
Should CE'S Armour system be revamped? Bullets aren't getting deflected against Armour that high, and most times raiders don't bring high enough caliber or AP ammo to deal with colonists like that.

[Amiisato]

I have benefited from your information a lot.

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

Alright I know some of you looked at the title and were thinking that I meant that the system is not working.
I don't mean that, I just mean that at times the system is straight up ridiculous.
Heres an example.
I did a test with a colonist who had these items
- Mac 10 (250 bullets)
- Ballistic Shield
- Power Armour
- Power Armour Helmet
- Tactical Vest
- Backpack
He was able to run into a horde of 50 tribal, or 25 raiders, and take them all on. The only reason he wasn't able to kill more than thirty was because I didn't give him enough ammo, but he has the capacity to hold over 500 bullets.
Now not only is this ridiculous, but its straight out busted, overpowered, and exploitable considering with an outdoor colony I got this setup at day 90 on one of my colonists.
Should CE'S Armour system be revamped? Bullets aren't getting deflected against Armour that high, and most times raiders don't bring high enough caliber or AP ammo to deal with colonists like that.

A good way to balance this would be to add debuffs to having that much bulk on you by having the bulk/weight carried affect movement speed.
For example, if your wearing 100 pounds of Armour and your only 80 pounds, you shouldn't even be able to move.

[BetaSpectre]

It's realistic to be OP in spece mehreeens armor.
Though having power armor actually need to consume energy supplies to function would make it more balanced. As well as for repairs.

[Boston]

Alright I know some of you looked at the title and were thinking that I meant that the system is not working.
I don't mean that, I just mean that at times the system is straight up ridiculous.
Heres an example.
I did a test with a colonist who had these items
- Mac 10 (250 bullets)
- Ballistic Shield
- Power Armour
- Power Armour Helmet
- Tactical Vest
- Backpack
He was able to run into a horde of 50 tribal, or 25 raiders, and take them all on. The only reason he wasn't able to kill more than thirty was because I didn't give him enough ammo, but he has the capacity to hold over 500 bullets.
Now not only is this ridiculous, but its straight out busted, overpowered, and exploitable considering with an outdoor colony I got this setup at day 90 on one of my colonists.
Should CE'S Armour system be revamped? Bullets aren't getting deflected against Armour that high, and most times raiders don't bring high enough caliber or AP ammo to deal with colonists like that.

he is in friggen POWER ARMOR, mate. The armor of elite Glitterworld assault troops. He should be able to murder an army with his bare hands.

[b0rsuk]

he is in friggen POWER ARMOR, mate. The armor of elite Glitterworld assault troops. He should be able to murder an army with his bare hands.

Roman soldiers were able to kill war elephants with melee weapons, particularly axes to cut at their legs. Are you suggesting a man wearing (power) armor should be much stronger than an elephant ? In World War II, civilians were able to destroy tanks with molotov cocktails. I mean people with no military training and no military weapons, only something they can find in the kitchen or basement.

[Canute]

And why you don't discuss that at the CE thread ?

[b0rsuk]

Lots of people say the only proper way to play Rimworld is with mods. I think they're trying to force their point of view on us by dominating the General forum.

[kenmtraveller]

I don't have a problem with this at all.  First of all, he's still vulnerable to being stun locked by melee attacks if he gets swarmed.  Stick bombs would probably be a threat to him also.  Secondly, power armor is really hard to get, you need to have build essentially all of the infrastructure required to build the spaceship.  By this point, tribals aren't really the threats you should be facing, in my games I've generally become friendly with all of them by then -- the threat is mechanoids, asaris (if you're using that mode), and high end raiders who also have advanced weaponry.

[SpaceDorf]

Lots of people say the only proper way to play Rimworld is with mods. I think they're trying to force their point of view on us by dominating the General forum.

I think he is just using the general forum to discuss a point that would distract or maybe explode the Thread to the mod.
Since it is a widely used mod ( which I personally dislike ) I think it is still the right place here to do so. Especially since he marked the Threadname to avoid confusion. ( For those who read such things  )

After the first paragraph I thought of the Space Marine - Argument as well and I think it is true. Still this makes for a very boring game.

@b0rsuk. While your Arguments are true, they are a bad comparison. War Elephants were unarmored animals against trained and armed soldiers ( who still lost a few of their own ) .. and Molotov vs. Tanks is a special case scenario where the weakness of the tank ( it's meaty contents ) is targeted. Modern Tanks don't have that many holes to get fuel into them.

And if the Tribals had molotovs .. the Power Armor would have a problem as well

[Ghasty]

he is in friggen POWER ARMOR, mate. The armor of elite Glitterworld assault troops. He should be able to murder an army with his bare hands.

Roman soldiers were able to kill war elephants with melee weapons, particularly axes to cut at their legs. Are you suggesting a man wearing (power) armor should be much stronger than an elephant ? In World War II, civilians were able to destroy tanks with molotov cocktails. I mean people with no military training and no military weapons, only something they can find in the kitchen or basement.

To play devil's advocate, it's a pretty bad comparison to compare futuristic technology to WWI tech. A better comparison would be a drone fighting a bunch of dudes with AK47s. I'd like to see the guys with AK's shoot down a drone before they get mowed down by the drone. And that is just today's tech, presumably in the future the disparity between 'manpower' and 'technology' will be exponentially increased. I bet in the future we will have cybernetic soldiers and robots fighting wars for us, but I digress.

[b0rsuk]

If we had to be pedantic, we would have to compare futuristic weaponry to futuristic weaponry, which simply doesn't exist. I'm making a point that even the most intimidating "war machines" can be taken down, and 25 vs 1 is simply ridiculous. People are not THAT stupid. And it's not even a tank, it's a man in an armor.

And war elephants were often armored. War horses often had some kind of armor too, they were very expensive so it made sense. Initially their weaknesses weren't known, but they were discovered. They made cavalry panic, yes, but they were somewhat vulnerable to axes, and they were animals with minds of their own. They could be scared by lots of loud shouting and noise making, too.

Laws of physics and common sense still apply. If you could make an indestructible plane - let's call it a mithril plane - you would still die if it crashed in the ground, even if the plane itself survived. The impact would jerk you too abruptly. Now replace the mithril plane you're inside with a power armor.

[SpaceDorf]

Laws of physics and common sense still apply. If you could make an indestructible plane - let's call it a mithril plane - you would still die if it crashed in the ground, even if the plane itself survived. The impact would jerk you too abruptly. Now replace the mithril plane you're inside with a power armor.

Depends of the Space-Magic Technologies used in the Plane/Armor. Gravity Dampeners.

And on the use of power armor, as theorized by John Ringo. :

It is the same size as the enemies fighting it. Not all 50 can see it. Friendly fire and line of sight prohibits the following forces
to hit it.
So in Melee it comes down to 8 to 1.
With Shooting it comes to the spread of the attackers and the weaponry.
If their biggest weapon can't penetrate the armor, their number becomes obsolete and the melee situation applies.
A molotov or a grenade would have made all the difference in this situation.

For further comparison the game lacks some possibilites real fighters have.

But I would prefer if the discussion returned to the raised question :

Is the armor system of CE broken, or is the Power Armor just OP.

[Boston]

Laws of physics and common sense still apply. If you could make an indestructible plane - let's call it a mithril plane - you would still die if it crashed in the ground, even if the plane itself survived. The impact would jerk you too abruptly. Now replace the mithril plane you're inside with a power armor.

Depends of the Space-Magic Technologies used in the Plane/Armor. Gravity Dampeners.

And on the use of power armor, as theorized by John Ringo. :

It is the same size as the enemies fighting it. Not all 50 can see it. Friendly fire and line of sight prohibits the following forces
to hit it.
So in Melee it comes down to 8 to 1.
With Shooting it comes to the spread of the attackers and the weaponry.
If their biggest weapon can't penetrate the armor, their number becomes obsolete and the melee situation applies.
A molotov or a grenade would have made all the difference in this situation.

For further comparison the game lacks some possibilites real fighters have.

But I would prefer if the discussion returned to the raised question :

Is the armor system of CE broken, or is the Power Armor just OP.

It depends, we have modern body armor now that is protective against grenades. Grenades kill through fragmentation, hence the term 'frag grenade'.

If you take a look at the Power Armor in WH40k, which is what the Power Armor in Rimworld is partially/largely based on ...... it basically turns the wearer into a walking tank without the firepower. Incredibly increased strength (to the point where a punch to the chest can kill an unarmored human), almost-invulnerability to most weapons, plus a whole slew of other benefits. In Dark Heresy (the tabletop game for WH40k) I've had a character in Power Armor casually stroll into an ambush and walk out on the other side with little more than some scuffed paint.

Unless your opponents have armor-piercing ammunition, or are otherwise equipped with anti-tank weaponry, Power Armor is really friggen good..... which is why it is so expensive, hard-to-get, and controlled.

In my opinion, Power Armor and other Glitterworld technologies shouldn't be capable of being manufactured on a Rimworld. Full stop. Want some? Gotta trade for it.

[SpaceDorf]

In Dark Heresy (the tabletop game for WH40k)

Dark Heresy ? .. You should read the Mob Rules in Deathwatch for Space Marines against unarmored People or other insignificant targets. Short Version : The single individuals become HP for a larger enemy and are treated as such.