Alpha 18 unstable test build is released

[b4d]

Cassandra Classic, extreme

day 11: squid got killed by cargo pods while sleeping in his room

i think i saw the cargo pods land and explode like a grenade. is this intended?

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[Calahan]

day 11: squid got killed by cargo pods while sleeping in his room

i think i saw the cargo pods land and explode like a grenade. is this intended?

WAD (Working as Designed). Here's an earlier comment by one of the devs (from a post in the bugs forum).

All cargo pods now explode. Though the explosion is very small so it's sometimes easy to miss.

[CannibarRechter]

> That's the whole point of natural disasters.

Even the earliest settlers to Tornado alley knew how to deal with Tornadoes: they built underground. I'm not playing A18 yet, but it would be weird if Tornados could do any damage to people who are dug in. Also, if the game had Z (which obviously it doesn't), the lower levels would be immune.

[Aerial]

> That's the whole point of natural disasters.

Even the earliest settlers to Tornado alley knew how to deal with Tornadoes: they built underground. I'm not playing A18 yet, but it would be weird if Tornados could do any damage to people who are dug in. Also, if the game had Z (which obviously it doesn't), the lower levels would be immune.

It's an opportunity to introduce an advanced building material - could be reinforced concrete or even some kind of futuristic plascrete made from plasteel and other ingredients - that can withstand tornado winds. 

The truth is that quality mortared stone is actually pretty good in tornados because much of the damage and loss of life is due to debris flying at high speed (which thick stone is pretty good at rejecting).  So theoretically our stone block walls ought to withstand a tornado pretty well.  What they're not good for is earthquakes.  That's when you really need your construction to be steel-reinforced and built on a foundation designed for earth movement.

As much as I like the tornado as an added game event, it shouldn't affect natural stone (hills and mountains) and should cause limited damage to stone structures and the things inside them.  Wood structures, of course, would get shredded.  To balance, perhaps Tynan could also add earthquakes (which wood is generally better for since it has a lot of flexibility) but stone is not, and maybe flooding, which would destroy interiors more than structure.

[fatm3l]

This is getting more and more exciting. So many changes and improvements.

[TheMeInTeam]

day 11: squid got killed by cargo pods while sleeping in his room

i think i saw the cargo pods land and explode like a grenade. is this intended?

WAD (Working as Designed). Here's an earlier comment by one of the devs (from a post in the bugs forum).

All cargo pods now explode. Though the explosion is very small so it's sometimes easy to miss.

Randomly kililng pawns with 0 counterplay is anti-gameplay design.  It is also anti-Rimworld design.  Removing agency in a game all about player choices and preparations is literally undermining the game's own core experience.

Tornadoes also fall in this category at present, when they appear on you and when they shred visiting caravans.  They break real-life tornado rules, consistently act like the most powerful tornadoes on Earth (you can have an F0 or F1 tornado pass right on you IRL and live, though you might die to debris...in the game you just get shredded so these are always top-end tornadoes).  What does this add to player strategy?  Absolutely nothing, you just take damage then keep your same priority list as before with fewer resources.  What does it add to skill influencing outcomes?  A negative value, it's a skill equalizing mechanic without counterplay.

These things are bad for the game for the same reason pawn defection was bad for the game.  If the player screws up, sure punish the player.  In a fantasy scenario designed around the player's choices mattering, making them matter a little less with no compensating factors is using dev work to make the game worse outright .

This isn't justifiable from a design standpoint any more than making any attack no matter how big or small have a chance to kill instantly on any game entity, or having an event that spontaneously engulfs your highest skill-total pawn in flames, killing them instantly.  It's a less extreme implementation than those examples, but the logic behind it and in-game functionality is identical :/.

[PhantomFav]

The "Healer mech serum" is only for self-injection... so I can't save my preciousests (downed) pawns with few seconds of life, after raids or other important incidents?

The tornado and the laser beam are pretty cooool!

[Ser Kitteh]

Thoughts on the new dresser and end table:

I like it, and I like the art. However, I think the whole "should be placed adjacent to the head" thing should be removed.

The reason being is that every bedroom is gonna look the same and it's kinda gonna get boring. Players will find the most efficient way of doing things even if it's boring or stale. Water will find cracks. I think how More Furniture does it with the dresser/end table acting as a tool cabinet is much more efficient, and allows the dresser to be put anyway in the bedroom. A quick look at Aavak's current LP shows how varied the bedrooms are, and NEEDING it to be placed adjacent to the head is a silly requirement that limits creativity for bedroom designs (which all look boring because the lack of variety in the floor options).

So that's my 2 silver, and if it isn't much, and end table with a light would be welcome as well. Idk if Tynan is worried of taking ideas too literally but honestly, that might be for the best. Just throwing a giant ass grand sculpture in the room works for the pawn, but not for the player (at least me, personally).

Hope this post doesn't get deleted!

[LouisTBR]

Tornados sound like the worst thing that can happen, but realistically, I have found them to be docile, and a sort of 'Oh thank god it wasn't a Zzzt' thought comes up. They tend to stay away from my base, and often dissipate or leave the map very quickly, making the damage limited to cracked stone and a few dead critters.

[TheMeInTeam]

Tornados sound like the worst thing that can happen, but realistically, I have found them to be docile, and a sort of 'Oh thank god it wasn't a Zzzt' thought comes up. They tend to stay away from my base, and often dissipate or leave the map very quickly, making the damage limited to cracked stone and a few dead critters.

Yes, they often wind up doing nothing, but can instantly kill someone without counterplay depending where they form.  This is not a good event.  It could be a reasonable one with some tweaks (stone walls/doors ignore damage, roof protects but only below a certain size while larger roof areas get stripped, damages materials stored outdoors or unroofed but not materials that remain indoors + roofed, grace radius to prevent spawning right on top of entities and instantly killing them).

If you do do the suggestions about, you get a mechanic that:

- Does not instantly kill people without agency
- Makes the player evaluate which resources are important enough to wall in vs just cover
- Makes the player consider a tradeoff between small vs large rooms (this has real life basis in tornado safety too, in Florida where basements are not an option you pick the smallest, most centralized room in the structure).

Zzzzt is 100% preventable by either avoiding batteries or avoiding conduits.  The latter is plenty possible for non-mountain bases with planning.  As such, the player has real tradeoffs regarding design of base and what power to research vs alternatives.  This is quite different from tornadoes or cargo pod telefrags.

[LouisTBR]

Tornados sound like the worst thing that can happen, but realistically, I have found them to be docile, and a sort of 'Oh thank god it wasn't a Zzzt' thought comes up. They tend to stay away from my base, and often dissipate or leave the map very quickly, making the damage limited to cracked stone and a few dead critters.

Yes, they often wind up doing nothing, but can instantly kill someone without counterplay depending where they form.  This is not a good event.  It could be a reasonable one with some tweaks (stone walls/doors ignore damage, roof protects but only below a certain size while larger roof areas get stripped, damages materials stored outdoors or unroofed but not materials that remain indoors + roofed, grace radius to prevent spawning right on top of entities and instantly killing them).

If you do do the suggestions about, you get a mechanic that:

- Does not instantly kill people without agency
- Makes the player evaluate which resources are important enough to wall in vs just cover
- Makes the player consider a tradeoff between small vs large rooms (this has real life basis in tornado safety too, in Florida where basements are not an option you pick the smallest, most centralized room in the structure).

Zzzzt is 100% preventable by either avoiding batteries or avoiding conduits.  The latter is plenty possible for non-mountain bases with planning.  As such, the player has real tradeoffs regarding design of base and what power to research vs alternatives.  This is quite different from tornadoes or cargo pod telefrags.

I'm aware of that, but avoiding batteries and conduits is worse than preventing zzzt. I don't want to build new power plants every 7 or so tiles because nothing can directly reach them. My point was that, at the moment in my game, Zzzts have done more damage than tornadoes. Therefore, "I have found them to be docile" and "They dissipate or leave the map quickly, making the damage limited to cracked stone and dead critters" is a perfectly accurate statement of my experiences.

[Rimrue]

So a couple days into my game (playing Lost Tribe, Randy Random on Some Challenge), I get my first quest to rescue Wilfred. He's injured and needs saving. So I pack up some food and meds and grab my best fighters (equipped with bows and wooden war masks) to go save him. He's guarded by 4 turrets and a guy in power armour with an LMG. And he's got no legs. Yeah, like I'm gonna risk losing all my pawns for a guy who can't even walk? So I noped out of there and left poor Wilfred to his fate.

Like A17, I have found the early quests just not worth risking. Which is yet again disappointing. At least this time I have plenty of food. And the traders seem to want it. And I'm actually getting traders. Lol

Psychoid pekoe seems overly addictive, though. Had a pawn use it once (for illness) and become instantly addicted. Not sure if that was just bad RNG, but I'm less likely to use it now whereas the mod I used it all the time for pain and disease.

Love that you included a few of my mods! Bedrolls are awesome. Poker is too. Thanks!

[Wanderer_joins]

Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Tribal random start -> landed ship

https://imgur.com/a/DUDOz

New mental breaks, it introduces more diversity. It's funny to see a colonist go dig out a corpse to throuw it on the dining table, or to try to arrest one trying to murder a guy.

Inspirations: force you to change your prios, think of your work tab and create opportunities

Blight: with the new mechanics it's no longer the punishment it was, but maybe nerfed a bit too much

Hit trap for a colonist has been nerfed? nice

The new rewards for quests are a real incentive, but ~ 1 bandit camp opportunity per year is still limited compared to trade opportunities with faction bases. Over the three years i havent seen a new "special" item ("only" bionic legs, but nice)

The down refugee quest is a good idea, but two legs off is maybe too much, and 2 out of 3 offers were not reachable by a caravan given the location/ season.

The combat log adds to the storytelling, but i couldn't find an art description using a raid or combat (they looked A17 like, and i made a dozen of sculptures)

The concept of stealthiness for a caravan is interesting, it makes small and light caravan a really safe option for trade

The tech tree gives more importance to gun research, but with the raiders, i didn't really have to research it to get normal/ good weapons

[Rimrue]

I just noticed on Steam some others reporting their downed refugee quests have no legs either. Bug? Certainly hope this isn't WAD! I was expecting a guy with similar injuries to escape pod pawns.

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm aware of that, but avoiding batteries and conduits is worse than preventing zzzt. I don't want to build new power plants every 7 or so tiles because nothing can directly reach them. My point was that, at the moment in my game, Zzzts have done more damage than tornadoes. Therefore, "I have found them to be docile" and "They dissipate or leave the map quickly, making the damage limited to cracked stone and dead critters" is a perfectly accurate statement of my experiences.

Even in the context of your own experience, you're comparing preventable damage to unpreventable damage, and since in your anecdotal experience you didn't lose a pawn with nothing you can do about it it (impossible for zzzzt) you're underselling that factor.

Mostly centralizing power w/o conduits is not that difficult for base designs unless they are in mountains.

If tornadoes had counterplay similar to what I highlighted about I wouldn't have a problem with them.  They don't though, at least not yet.

Blight: with the new mechanics it's no longer the punishment it was, but maybe nerfed a bit too much

The old model for it was comparatively awkward, losing 1000's of yield in an instant on short growing seasons was pretty rough at first, then non-factor later.  This at least creates a situation where you can do something.