Unstable build feedback thread

[Sangerwolf]

When you generate a world and the ocean is named in huge letters:


I'm dying.

That is by far the best world gen i've ever seen...

[Oblitus]

You've described WM Smarter Food Selection mod. I don't think it would be implemented. It makes this game way too good, especially part that manages animal food.

I don't think making a game too good is a valid reason not to put something in.

This game is drama generator. That's why a lot of logical things are not here - they would give players tools to deal with problems without drama. WM SFS cuts out:
- Animals binging drugs
- Cattle eating your crops
- Kibble management (you can just store kibble and hay in barn and animals would only eat it when they have no access to grass)
- Hauling animals (who for the obvious reason usually have access to storage) eating good food when they can find a cheap one
- Artifical nutrient dispenser limitations (you can feed animals with nutrient paste which is much more efficient than hay, for larger animals at least)
- Animal handlers feeding sick animals with lavish meals

[Sirinox]

It's weird that I can just repair a wood door while a thumbo hammers a bit against it and then he walks away without me having any problems.

Not too weird, barricading and reinforcing door is quite realistic. Though it's still interesting idea about open while repairing.

Another consequence of trap change. Guess I'll be marking outdoors traps as home zone so that critters does not clutter them up. Wouldn't work for bleed out somewhere else ones though. If nothing changes next tribal start will try to start with making a one way corridor with traps and decoy at the end inside. Maybe trap spring chance should be multiplied by creature size?

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[Syrchalis]

Tynan - please bring back closing bill detail windows by clicking outside the window.

When I try to assign several bills (say duster, shirt and pants) so they are made of certain materials it's incredibly useful to be able to just double-click the "details..." button instead of having to click "close" and then "details...".

Note: Doubleclick because first click doesn't have to be on the button, but just outside the window to close it, second click is to open the next bill's details, so for efficiency you might as well move the mouse on the details button already.

I know this is tiny, but it is very annoying when I want a full set of clothing of a certain type of leather.

[botaxalim]

Animal predatory change. Check map for food, if none herbivore animal present, check for colonist pet, if none kill the nearest human for food. The point is we can avoid random predator eating our colonist, as the player maintain animal ecosystem on the map so the predator not ran out prey/food. Maybe add warning when last wild herbivore animal extict. If player kill all animal except predator, its their own fault if predator attack them

Anoher suggestion, i like the way blight in crop happen, not like old days where suddenly they gone by rng. Now there problem with malaria, plague,flu , muscle parasite etc. Its so stupid they randomly appear, there nothing we can do to avoid. I hope there is indication like gas or mosquito , if colonist stay to long near them they will get sick, their antibodies weaken and such. Using drug before they get in contact will help increasing immunity/antibodies, or we could destroy them with something before the sick gettin on to our colonist.

The point is all event in game ,there should a way to avoid or minimize the problem source. Not just randomly getting out of hand. Like recently food poisoning problem, as long we have decent chef and clean kitchen there no way we got the problem 99%. Not a stupid rng deciding what they wnt to happen without our concern/mistake in first place

And i hope before 1.0 release there at least 10 - 20 more random event to make more story. A 500+ hours player probably already learn and thru all the event
Ty and sorry for my english

[DariusWolfe]

Tynan - please bring back closing bill detail windows by clicking outside the window.

Second this. I didn't even realize that this was changed vanilla functionality, I thought it was behavior from a mod. I also miss the ability to change between bills just by double-clicking the other bill.

Edit: also, I think this has been a thing for a while, but predators don't seem to ever eat their kills except immediately after they kill it. If a cougar kills a boar, the corpse will either rot, or be snatched up by me; the cougar never seems to return to their kill. Maybe changing behavior so that predators will seek non-rotten corpses before they hunt? This would also help with cleaning up after raids...

[TheMeInTeam]

Predator attacks are more an annoyance than anything else. I think they should have wild animals as high priority, then if there are none, go for your animals, then if there are none, go for your pawns.

But if there are plenty of wild animals, leave us alone. As I said, they add nothing, just a random inevitable attack that you couldnt see until it was too late. And even if we had a warning, it would be a hassle to draft 2-3 pawns to kill it.

However, if we talk about a bear, it might still make sense... Just make sure that at least foxes, wolves and wargs at least attack us and our animals the last. I dont mind drafting 2-3 pawns to defend ourselves from a bear sometimes, but a fox every day... No.

Historically, they're threatening for the wrong reasons.  They kill a pawn more surely than raiders, with much less warning.  On balance, they're also very easy to kill.  The issue is the heavy micromanagement - with no notification the only counterplay w/o mods prior to 1.0 was manually panning the map.  Doing so frequently enough to guarantee against predators took more IRL time than some of the most degenerate micromanagement tricks Rimworld has had. 

Wildlife tab alleviated that to a degree, but still required constant manual checking every few days.  The end result of such an implementation is similar to a requirement that you manually order pawns to eat, or they collapse from starvation.  Like fighting predators, micromanaging pawns to eat would be easy.  It also wouldn't add any real thought process to the game.  All the same arguments about predators apply here too (IRL, if you don't eat you starve).  But in mechanical terms this would do nothing but make Rimworld more annoying to play.

Other than turning it off entirely, options like hunt alert or an alert for "predators have no wild food available" could be implemented.  The main question remains: aside from rote micromanagement to upkeep something, what does this add to the game?  It's similar in principle to forcing manual cleaning/eating/cooking/etc.  It's unique in that it's a very high pawn threat despite that it's literally the only external threat in the game with no notification whatsoever.

This game is drama generator. That's why a lot of logical things are not here - they would give players tools to deal with problems without drama. WM SFS cuts out:
- Animals binging drugs
- Cattle eating your crops
- Kibble management (you can just store kibble and hay in barn and animals would only eat it when they have no access to grass)
- Hauling animals (who for the obvious reason usually have access to storage) eating good food when they can find a cheap one
- Artifical nutrient dispenser limitations (you can feed animals with nutrient paste which is much more efficient than hay, for larger animals at least)
- Animal handlers feeding sick animals with lavish meals

A lot of this is in 1.0 (and earlier in most cases).  For example zoning (I like the merged zones in 1.0 btw) cattle off crops is trivial, and while micro intensive you can spam out nutrient paste meals w/o mods.

Animals consuming drugs that are outside their zones has always been a degenerate implementation, more micro nuisance than a mechanic that offers interesting decisions or difficult execution...but it has long been possible to block this entirely.  The problem with these mods is that they're not pure QoL; they alter the tradeoffs of some of the game's mechanics too.  Hauler animal food consumption is an example, that effectively buffs them via mod.

[Sirsir]

You've described WM Smarter Food Selection mod. I don't think it would be implemented. It makes this game way too good, especially part that manages animal food.

I don't think making a game too good is a valid reason not to put something in.

This game is drama generator. That's why a lot of logical things are not here - they would give players tools to deal with problems without drama. WM SFS cuts out:
- Animals binging drugs
- Cattle eating your crops
- Kibble management (you can just store kibble and hay in barn and animals would only eat it when they have no access to grass)
- Hauling animals (who for the obvious reason usually have access to storage) eating good food when they can find a cheap one
- Artifical nutrient dispenser limitations (you can feed animals with nutrient paste which is much more efficient than hay, for larger animals at least)
- Animal handlers feeding sick animals with lavish meals

Drugs aside (WHO LET THE CAT INTO THE LUCY STORAGE?!), I would argue that none of this adds to the drama, just annoyance.

I'm not normally one to ask for things to be harder, but large Predators should be predatory, even on people. With the changes to revenge, and the wildlife tab (which is looked at fairly frequently for hunting anyway) its a lot easier to take them out than it has been. Yes its somewhat micro-y, but this game has micro, thats a fair chunk of the gameplay.

[Sirinox]

Animal predatory change. Check map for food, if none herbivore animal present, check for colonist pet, if none kill the nearest human for food. The point is we can avoid random predator eating our colonist, as the player maintain animal ecosystem on the map so the predator not ran out prey/food. Maybe add warning when last wild herbivore animal extict. If player kill all animal except predator, its their own fault if predator attack them

It could be solved with a constant transparent notification like "minor break risk" but with "human hunting predators around", turning into red emergency notification like "medical emergency" when some of them are at the point they hungry enough to go for human hunting, and a red time pausing letter when one of them actually starts hunting a colonist.

So player could ignore the presence of predators if he wishes so, but be alarmed if they are becoming more dangerous and have actual time to react if he ignored it all and it resulted in colonist being attacked without having to smash space bar quickly, if he checked a "Pause on urgent letter" checkbox in menu. Because, really, someone being mauled is quite urgent thing.

The main question remains: aside from rote micromanagement to upkeep something, what does this add to the game?

Player-VS-environment and immersion. Because if wargs are peacefull to the point they rather starve to death than attack a human - something they were engineered for from their description, then why have them present at all?

[DariusWolfe]

Drugs aside (WHO LET THE CAT INTO THE LUCY STORAGE?!), I would argue that none of this adds to the drama, just annoyance.

Agree, most heartily. Micromanaging food access is just tedious.

[dnmr]

could we please get some sort of an indicator next to pawn portraits if their caravan is idle? I seem to miss the notifications sometimes.
Also on the subject of QoL, why does the "haul things" tool only work on junk? Can there be a way to prioritize hauling collected crops from the fields?

[Jovlo]

You know, now that wild animals trigger traps, there's a bizarre phenomenon happening each time there's a cold snap in my temperate Forrest:
The Great Boomrat Suicides!

I leave some doors to my main stockpile open, and once it gets really cold, lots of wild small animals go towards it looking for food.
Now the boomrats often trigger my boobytraps, leading to constant small explosions at my colony's entrances.
It's both a good source of food and a risk to my colonists.
The rats often set IED's on fire, which then can explode as my colonists try to extinguish them.
It's quite funny though.

[Madman666]

I second to all people here, who want predators attacking colonists again, but i really hope, if that mechanic returns, it will have not only a warning, about your pawn being hunted (before its already halfeaten preferably), but also makes the said animal considered hostile by both colonists and turrets. It was stupid, when a bear mauled someone's wife right in front of said guy's eyes and he just walks by like nothing's happened.

[Greep]

Played another 2 seasons or so on boreal mountains:

I'd forgotten how difficult it is to both do the initial mountain setup and survive on boreal and nearly starve to death trying to maintain too many prisoners.  I just barely failed to get a full circle of hydroponics and mistakenly stopped working on it.  Ended up getting enough food through a caravan.  Temperature on the map is slightly misadvertised, it got down to -40C, so it was kind of chilly!

Food poisoning was also a real pain.  I thought a level 5 cook and a relatively clean kitchen would have been sufficient to drop the paste machine: it's not.  Vomit everywhere for a week or two, not much work done.

A psychic ship crashes down amusingly right at my turret entrance.  in retrospect I probably should have either built more turrets or moved them and built traps for the fragile lancers, but a couple turrets end up blowing up setting me back a few hundred steel.

On balance:  With a weaker economy this time around and not having much time to mine for steel or get cannons, I really felt the crunch trying to keep up with turret maintenance and replacing downed turrets.  Cannons have the advantage of being repairable very easily in battle and not easily destroyed, so they are much more steel efficient in the long term.  So I would have been better off simply building deadfalls in the beginning. 

I'm not sure if that really needs balancing, as deadfalls when you have a killbox are still useful in the beginning, but maybe miniturret maintenance costs specifically are high.

Ultimately I do end up getting settled and finally am able to move in to the more fortified position:

Oh, and vasquez dies from an infection to a scratch xD.  note to self:  Being 20% ahead on infection isn't quite enough to turn off bed rest.  Got the medical emergency message just too late.

Edit: OH ALSO!  Holy crap does smoothing floors take forever.  Was this changed?  I just gave up and burned a bunch of wood on floor tiles

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[Sirinox]

The rats often set IED's on fire, which then can explode as my colonists try to extinguish them.

Whoa. Somehow even though I had IEDs triggering on rats, I haven't thought of a possibility when I'd lose a pawn because of a rat jumping on explosive IED near him. xD Even funnier/scarier then if he accidentally triggered it himself.