[A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.5 (08.05.16) Final release

Started by NoImageAvailable, January 29, 2015, 12:27:41 PM

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Silkoraz

Looks good and works great, except for the range on weapons. You barely see your enemy before they are dead and the very tactical positioning i like in this game gets ruined. Is there a way to mod ranges on weapons or change the settings? I ran it on Randy random 160% and survived for 3 years with only 1 browning. The AI isnt made to think at those great distances and even with sniper rifles they just move into close combat before even considering firing and before that they were dead. Also keep the max range at 50 and try to adapt to that. Makes other weapon mods viable and not just vanilla weapons OP. Would be awesome!

Best Regards

Dragoon

Quote from: Silkoraz on March 11, 2015, 03:46:02 AM
-snip-
Change it yourself. Go Mods\CombatRealism\Defs\ThingDefs , edit find <range>(some number)</range> and manually change the guns do the range you want.
Quote from: faltonico
I truly can't understand that sense of balancing a LOT of modders have, pouring more resources on something doesn't make it more difficult, but more annoying. It is not engaging, even if i'm swimming in silver at late game ¿why to bother?, why all the effort to get there?.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: kaiserslash on March 10, 2015, 04:33:30 AM
Just wanting to say I love combat Realism, I also enjoy Cybernetic Storms, but they both modify body parts.  I'm working on trying to make them compatible in that Combat Realism will be added after Cybernetic Storms.  If I can get it to work properly, would you want the compatibility version?

Sure, go ahead. I have no idea what Cybernetic Storm does but this mod mostly just switches some numbers around so I don't think there will be major incompatibilities.

Quote from: Silkoraz on March 11, 2015, 03:46:02 AM
Looks good and works great, except for the range on weapons. You barely see your enemy before they are dead and the very tactical positioning i like in this game gets ruined. Is there a way to mod ranges on weapons or change the settings? I ran it on Randy random 160% and survived for 3 years with only 1 browning. The AI isnt made to think at those great distances and even with sniper rifles they just move into close combat before even considering firing and before that they were dead. Also keep the max range at 50 and try to adapt to that. Makes other weapon mods viable and not just vanilla weapons OP. Would be awesome!

Best Regards

I'm guessing you play either desert or tundra with flat terrain? Because I playtested on a boreal forest with large hills and one M2 sure as hell isn't stopping entire raids by itself. The AI is a known issue and will get a pass-over at some point in the future. I have considered reducing certain weapons' ranges but I certainly will not reduce them to vanilla levels. This mod was primarily intended to create a certain type of gameplay that might not be everyone's cup of tea (think Call of Duty vs ArmA) and if you'd rather have the arcadey gameplay of vanilla this mod is not for you.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Famous Shoes

Just wanted to say I quite like the ranges as they are in Combat Realism. Stock RimWorld AI is certainly an issue though, even the simple raid priorities seems to have been made for a world without firearms (stock ranges are roughly throwing ranges, so I think of stock RW as modelling the throwing of bullets by hand.) Priorities seem to be:

Mechs: first attack turrets of any kind, then buildings, and lastly a colonist or two.
Humanoids: first attack buildings, then turrets, and lastly colonists.

This works OKish without real ranged weapons and supports much larger raids, giving the UX of "mowing down hordes". But, it works poorly with Combat Realism ranges. If it were possible to simply change raid pawns' priorities so 80-90% of raiders went for colonists first, then pillaging and burning second, that might help a fair bit. Just a guess and I'm not sure if that's even among the moddable things.

nuschler22

I really enjoy the realism in this, but I'm having a problem actually capturing colonists to grow my colony. 

Even trying to capture people with melee, they are usually dead by the time I get them back to my prison or shortly thereafter. 

With the cost of slaves so much these days (lol), does anyone have any tips using this mod?  Thanks!

Famous Shoes

Quote from: nuschler22 on March 11, 2015, 10:08:24 AM
I really enjoy the realism in this, but I'm having a problem actually capturing colonists to grow my colony.  [...]

I recommend Skullywag's stun gun and grenades and tazer in Non-Lethals: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=6034.0 (scroll down a bit in the OP for Non-Lethals.)

Mathenaut

Oddly enough, the AI issues actually make this a little.. too easy.

Though I suppose it also just means that using proper strategies is super-effective now that mobs of raiders can't just soak up bullets for breakfast on their jolly way through into your base.

Mechanoid Hivemind

i was told that there was a compatible version for rimfire but alas i am blind (not literaly) and cant find it
The individual is obsolete. When you and your kind are extinct, we will cleanse our collective memory of the stain of your existence.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Mechanoid HiveMind on March 15, 2015, 05:10:58 AM
i was told that there was a compatible version for rimfire but alas i am blind (not literaly) and cant find it

Check the Rimfire page, the download for the CR version is right below the regular one.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

nuschler22

Quote from: Famous Shoes on March 11, 2015, 10:16:20 AM
Quote from: nuschler22 on March 11, 2015, 10:08:24 AM
I really enjoy the realism in this, but I'm having a problem actually capturing colonists to grow my colony.  [...]

I recommend Skullywag's stun gun and grenades and tazer in Non-Lethals: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=6034.0 (scroll down a bit in the OP for Non-Lethals.)

Thanks.  Is there a way to capture them when they are stunned?  I find even when they are stunned and I melee them, they typically die on their way to or shortly after getting inside the prison.

harpo99999

when they are stunned, just CAPTURE them do NOT melee them, but if you are near the colony max for your storyteller then they are likely to die anyway

Mathenaut

I'm going to leave my .02 on this mod overall, now that I've run a couple of colonies with it.

I've mentioned (and some others have mentioned) that this mod makes the game particularly easy (though mechanoids are damn tough without cheesing your way into heavy weapons early on, or using other mods).

This has alot to do with what the mod does, vs what is advertised. You're boasting realism, when in reality you are just making weapons excessively deadly. It's a world of difference.

It's 'easy' because people pretty much drop dead when they take a round or two. Because TV is more realistic than reality, this makes sense to people.

If you're aiming for actual realism, however, then people wearing armor should be getting incapped far more often than getting killed.

Another problem with ranges involves sight. With proper spotters and all things accounted for, yes, sniper rifles have amazing range and accuracy. Realistically? Most of these weapons are firing further than people would reasonably see with any real clarity.

So mostly, this took a problem that the game has (people eating bullets for breakfast) and pushed it to the opposite extreme (people dying from one or two shots).

Some people enjoy this, but I think there's more potential to be seen in this mod.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Mathenaut on March 15, 2015, 11:39:56 PM
If you're aiming for actual realism, however, then people wearing armor should be getting incapped far more often than getting killed.

Guns were specifically balanced so that modern day weaponry won't be able to destroy people's organs in one hit through the 50% reduction armor provides. It is not exactly realistic that a thrown stone could do any damage through power armor, but its the best you can do with the lackluster armor system (a proper threshold based system is definitely on my things to look into) and it does work for incapacitation. I've had pawns get caught off-guard and get barraged by entire raiding parties and survive without any permanent injury thanks to power armor. Keep in mind that incap chances for raiders are storyteller based, not damage based.

As for lethality, testing showed that unprotected pawns would go down after about 4-6 assault rifle rounds unless a vital organ is hit. And while it is certainly possible to survive a gunshot to the heart, the problem is again in Rimworld's lackluster pain system which lets people run around with a heart at 1 health like it ain't no thing when any real person would be incapacitated. I think having those incapacitating shots be lethal is a much better compromise than an army of iron men shrugging off even the most grievous injuries.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Mathenaut

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on March 16, 2015, 02:24:33 AM
Guns were specifically balanced so that modern day weaponry won't be able to destroy people's organs in one hit through the 50% reduction armor provides.

That's just the thing, though. At least as I'm seeing it, the majority of the time someone with armor gets dropped with a bullet, it's usually because an internal organ got popped with not much of any other damage done (which, consequentially, means no incapping).

4-6 rounds is 2-3 more rounds than my experience shows. In my last couple of runs, an assault rifle dropped most unprotected raiders in a single burst. Hunting Rifles and Sniper Rifles usually only took one shot.

Oh, and turrets outright murdered everything that wasn't mechanoid.

Montanio

I think the only reason this mod feels "OP" sometimes is because the raiding AI is stupid. Otherwise, if the AI were anywhere set up for remote engagements and to use cover, with superior numbers even with the best weapons, colonists and turrents will be soon overwhelmed. I find if you play on extreme challenge, the sheer size of raiding parties trumps even superior weaponry + armor (I've modded some weapons from other mod packs to match roughly the same stats as their counterparts in CR) unless you heavily choke routes and setup a strong barricade with multiple layers. I've been using this mod since A6 and even with OP expanded turrent packs, shields, other "goodies" and lots of mountain bases, I still lose colonists if I'm not careful.

I usually play on Cassandra extreme and ludicrous map sizes with moderate amount of mountains, so YMMV on settings and mods used.

I think the only way we can get better results is through more careful balancing of HP of each organ/parts, a custom storyteller (if incap chances can be modified that way to some extent), and ultimately, through an expanded plus improved health/AI system in the base game itself.