[A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.5 (08.05.16) Final release

Started by NoImageAvailable, January 29, 2015, 12:27:41 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

jackarbiter

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 05:31:59 AM
I do keep all my weapon data in spreadsheets. Some of the values are calculated using formulas while some other stuff like recoil and bulk I use formulas to get a baseline, then fudge it a bit as necessary. I used to publish those tables in back in A8-9 but I don't think anyone actually used them for anything.

I would love to take a look at one when you're done, or if you're not changing anything and already have one lying around.
Arbitration - One-folder modpack, marathon overhaul, working vehicles

Frug


Korn.Mil


Frug

Just a quick question: How many rounds will be produced per crafting action when making ammunition?

NoImageAvailable

Quick progress update, all the coding work is done now and except for a few minor issues everything runs more or less smoothly now. Now all that's left is to put all the pieces into the actual game and create the necessary XML files for everything, a good portion of that was done today. Depending on how fast fluffy can finish up his work on the loadout manager I'll hopefully be able to put out a full or pre-release in time for the weekend.

I like to post screenshots with these updates so here's the new plant I'm adding:



The Blazebulb is a genetically engineered plant that yields a highly pyrophoric fluid used for crafting incendiary weapons of all kinds, from molotovs to fuel cells for the incendiary launcher. However, due to the fluids contained the plant has a tendency to auto-ignite whenever it takes external damage or the room temperature rises above 21°C so you'll want to install some AC units and make sure your grow-op is fireproof.

Quote from: AllenWL on April 21, 2016, 06:21:20 AM
I just had a thought seeing my incapable-of-violence doctor waiting behind the fighters ready to drag whoever gets incapacitated to the hospital.
Could there be a way to have your non-combat personal stand by with some meds, then have them treat anyone who gets too injured right there on the battlefield?
Edit: Like, just stop the bleeding really quick or something.

Right now you can simply set down a sleeping spot and designate it as a medical bed. With the inventory system you can even have your medic carry a stock of medicine in his inventory. While it would be possible to automate the whole thing to some degree it would require a fair amount of AI work and since I'm trying to wrap things up I won't be making any big additions like that anymore.

Quote from: jackarbiter on April 21, 2016, 08:56:20 AM
I would love to take a look at one when you're done, or if you're not changing anything and already have one lying around.

Sure, just remind me after this release is out and I'll send you my tables.

Quote from: Frug on April 21, 2016, 04:28:22 PM
Just a quick question: How many rounds will be produced per crafting action when making ammunition?

I haven't gotten to balancing yet but it'll probably be somewhere in the realm of 1 steel ($2) = 15 small rifle/pistol bullets ($0.15 each for a total of $2.25). Of course, this is subject to change depending on how things turn out once I start playtesting things.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Mathenaut

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 19, 2016, 03:10:59 PM
I'm not particularly keen on micromanaging ammo on every colonist either, which is why the loadout manager will be designed to minimize the need for that as much as possible.

Is this about wanting 'realism', or is the idea to balance the different weapon types? Is there a generic 'ammo' that is general use, or will we need to manage different types for every different weapon?

AllenWL

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 04:56:53 PM
Quote from: AllenWL on April 21, 2016, 06:21:20 AM
I just had a thought seeing my incapable-of-violence doctor waiting behind the fighters ready to drag whoever gets incapacitated to the hospital.
Could there be a way to have your non-combat personal stand by with some meds, then have them treat anyone who gets too injured right there on the battlefield?
Edit: Like, just stop the bleeding really quick or something.

Right now you can simply set down a sleeping spot and designate it as a medical bed. With the inventory system you can even have your medic carry a stock of medicine in his inventory. While it would be possible to automate the whole thing to some degree it would require a fair amount of AI work and since I'm trying to wrap things up I won't be making any big additions like that anymore.
I was thinking something more among the lines of a 'quick treatment' button that will make doctors just patch up the big bleeding wounds and ignore the small minor wounds instead of treating them all and taking forever to do so.
Though, if they can carry around meds, that would speed things up too, so I guess it works.

porcupine

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 04:56:53 PM
I like to post screenshots with these updates so here's the new plant I'm adding:

The Blazebulb is a genetically engineered plant that yields a highly pyrophoric fluid used for crafting incendiary weapons of all kinds, from molotovs to fuel cells for the incendiary launcher. However, due to the fluids contained the plant has a tendency to auto-ignite whenever it takes external damage or the room temperature rises above 21°C so you'll want to install some AC units and make sure your grow-op is fireproof.

Absolutely fscking fantastic!  This sounds like the sort of thing that should be grown at a base's entrance, just in case :D.  Love it!

AllenWL

Quote from: porcupine on April 21, 2016, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 04:56:53 PM
I like to post screenshots with these updates so here's the new plant I'm adding:

The Blazebulb is a genetically engineered plant that yields a highly pyrophoric fluid used for crafting incendiary weapons of all kinds, from molotovs to fuel cells for the incendiary launcher. However, due to the fluids contained the plant has a tendency to auto-ignite whenever it takes external damage or the room temperature rises above 21°C so you'll want to install some AC units and make sure your grow-op is fireproof.

Absolutely fscking fantastic!  This sounds like the sort of thing that should be grown at a base's entrance, just in case :D.  Love it!
And have them spontaneously combust when the pawns walking back and forth and opening the door every day raises the temperature to 21°C? :P

This would probably be really annoying to grow in a desert. Hey, another reason to settle in cold biomes!

porcupine

Quote from: AllenWL on April 22, 2016, 03:12:55 AM
Quote from: porcupine on April 21, 2016, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 04:56:53 PM
I like to post screenshots with these updates so here's the new plant I'm adding:

The Blazebulb is a genetically engineered plant that yields a highly pyrophoric fluid used for crafting incendiary weapons of all kinds, from molotovs to fuel cells for the incendiary launcher. However, due to the fluids contained the plant has a tendency to auto-ignite whenever it takes external damage or the room temperature rises above 21°C so you'll want to install some AC units and make sure your grow-op is fireproof.

Absolutely fscking fantastic!  This sounds like the sort of thing that should be grown at a base's entrance, just in case :D.  Love it!
And have them spontaneously combust when the pawns walking back and forth and opening the door every day raises the temperature to 21°C? :P

This would probably be really annoying to grow in a desert. Hey, another reason to settle in cold biomes!

Heh, or in a desert during a solar flare :D.

Makes me think of don't starve actually, specifically, endothermic fire pits:

http://dont-starve-game.wikia.com/wiki/Endothermic_Fire_Pit#Endothermic_Fire_Pit

jackarbiter

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 04:56:53 PMDepending on how fast fluffy can finish up his work on the loadout manager I'll hopefully be able to put out a full or pre-release in time for the weekend.
Officially sitting here waiting like an idiot.

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 21, 2016, 04:56:53 PM
Quote from: jackarbiter on April 21, 2016, 08:56:20 AM
I would love to take a look at one when you're done, or if you're not changing anything and already have one lying around.

Sure, just remind me after this release is out and I'll send you my tables.

Thanks!
Arbitration - One-folder modpack, marathon overhaul, working vehicles

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Mathenaut on April 21, 2016, 06:52:38 PM
Is this about wanting 'realism', or is the idea to balance the different weapon types? Is there a generic 'ammo' that is general use, or will we need to manage different types for every different weapon?

Calibers are weapon-specific, i.e. an assault rifle fires 5.56mm, sniper rifle and LMG fire 7.62mm, etc. Despite the name I don't add things just for the sake of realism. Every feature is implemented first and foremost because I think it makes for more interesting gameplay. My general approach is that video games are about making interesting decisions.

With vanilla Rimworld, choosing the right loadout for your pawns is trivial, you just go with whatever gun has the shortest time to kill the enemy. It was the obvious choice simply because there was no reason not to. The initial CR release already improved on that by adding weight-based penalties to guns, so you had to choose whether you wanted your non-combatants to run around with assault rifles all day or just give them pistols for self-defense.

Ammo expands on this even further by attaching a material cost to using a certain gun. That fancy charge rifle you have might be the best weapon you have right now but you might have only so much ammo and no means to reliably obtain more, so until you get a bigger stockpile you might want to reserve it for that time a bunch of Centipedes drop in rather than waste it on a bunch of tribals. You have to balance combat effectiveness versus economic effectiveness as you are encouraged to finish firefights using as few resources as possible. This means you need to assess the situation, decide on the most effective course of action and then execute it, i.e. make interesting decisions.

Similarly, having different ammo types allows for more dynamic combat as weapons can perform different roles as needed. Your grenadier equipped with an RPG-7 might have a number of different grenades equipped to deal with situations as they come up. If a group of heavily armored enemies has clustered together behind high cover a thermobaric rocket might take them out quickly with a strong explosion, whereas a group of tribals in the open might be dispersed by firing a fragmentation rocket into the middle of their formation. And if a few isolated enemies manage to close in you might choose to forgo the rocket launcher entirely and switch to your SMG instead. Again, decisions have to be made depending on the tactical situation.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

25wes25

Various types of ammunition like you just described would be awesome, just curious if there would be any way for raiders to essentially 'give up' and run once they ran through all their ammo. Or rather switch to melee/loot if possible to keep up the offensive. I wouldn't want raiders to fire a handful of rounds each and then bail, but at the same time I don't want them to fire everything they have and then suicide charge my newly brought up minigun every single time.

AllenWL

If you can keep up with the ammo consumption of that minigun and actually wait till the enemy runs out of bullets each time, I think you'll deserve that win.

Now, I'm pretty sure a minigun and ammo for the minigun weighs a lot, and the gun also fires loads of bullets.
Here's a quote from before.
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 01, 2016, 06:15:12 AM
If a Centipede has 100kg of carrying capacity and 40kg are taken up by the minigun it would have room for 2400 rounds. At 300 rounds per burst you could sit out 8 bursts and then not have to worry because the Centipede is out of ammo. Of course the downside to this strategy is you have to sit out and survive 8 bursts from a minigun. The same goes for the player too, if you're using machine guns against tribals you can simply go full auto and spray them with fire but it will cost you in ammo, so you need to balance volume of fire against ammo consumption.
If we say these weight stats is the same as the actual game, it means with a 100kg capacity, you can carry the minigun, and 60kg of ammo, which is a total of 8 bursts.
I'm pretty sure a colonist won't be able to carry like, 0.1 tons of stuff, so you'll probably get less than that, meaning you'll have >8 tries to take down every raider, and that's if you didn't fire anything while the enemy wasted their bullets.

Though, speaking of ammo limits, I thought of something while on the 'what can noncombatants do during a fight' train of thought.
Then I realized something. Ammo carriers. Pawns can only carry so much ammo, and some guns will eat through ammo rather fast. Having someone on standby with a inventory full of ammo to give out reloads could be very useful.
On the same train of thought, it'd be cool if enemy raiders had a 'ammo carrier' who supplies some of them with ammo(so you might be able to wait out that pirate with a LMG until he runs out of ammo... just for him to get a refill from a ammo carrier on standby.)

jackarbiter

Quote from: AllenWL on April 22, 2016, 07:45:17 PM
On the same train of thought, it'd be cool if enemy raiders had a 'ammo carrier' who supplies some of them with ammo

Warg + saddlebags, that's my vote.
Arbitration - One-folder modpack, marathon overhaul, working vehicles