forced prostitution

[Ninjakitty66]

I don't think any game creator in their right mind is going to add any feature like this. It's in bad taste and it stirs a lot of trouble.

Mods are different, I don't like the idea of rape, I'd honestly rather not see it when I play Rimworld. Make a mod, have fun with whatever you believe. I'm as much as a Sadist as the next when it comes to this game but that goes beyond my borders and a good few others as well.

Rape happens in real life, yes but it doesn't mean it should be made light in an argument about adding it into a game. Cruel truth I know, but part of playing a game is to escape from real life for a time being. Lets not fill it up with a ton of realism details, otherwise you may as well not play and be experiencing the real world for those 2 hours or however long you play. This is for people that think like me, everyone has their preferences but overall I don't see the majority of Rimworld players enjoying this feature. Game is made to appeal to a majority, add something like rape to it in the basic game, I expect that majority to fall off.

TL:DR Make a mod if you want it, that way you can do as you please without hearing others bicker.

Just my two cent.

[mcreed]

I agree. Implementing this would be much too controversial and has the risk of drawing criticism that Ludeon would not deem worth the effort. While I do see your point about organ harvesting and cannibalism, you have to understand that rape is a great deal more sensitive of an issue.

Make a mod!

[Sola]

Show of hands, people!

How many of you have had your left lung harvested?
How many of you had to resort to cannibalism to survive?

[Ninjakitty66]

I have....


In games.

[MAKAIROSI]

...And the reason why they put lovers in the game is just because it's natural. Rape isn't.
...

Hardly. Rape happens literally ALL the time in the animal kingdom. Lice have to physically stab through the female's carapace to impregnate them. Slugs (who are hermaphrodites) have actual rape-fights trying to forcibly impregnate the other first.

When i said "naturally" i didn't mean "happens in nature" but "happens naturally" (i don't know how else to put it). By that i meant that if you are in a colony it would be almost impossible to escape developing feelings for someone. It's not specifically about survival, but you can't escape it. Maybe i chose the wrong word?

I have actually been typing a lot only to delete it all because this whole thing about the animal kingdom and the human kingdom and their differences was not even my point. It's the future! Let's just say that rape has been erased and get on with it.

[milon]

I just wanted to pop in here and say that I'm impressed with you guys. You're all handling the topics of rape & prostitution calmly and rationally even though you all have different perspectives and opinions. Keep it up!

I now return you to the conversation already in process.

[mumblemumble]

If its powerful enough to make people SCARED of the idea of it being added, its powerful enough to get someone seriously emotionally into a game.

It would also be powerful enough to make someone seriously disgusted at the fact that it is, or would be a feature.

I am willing to bet you would loose much more potential sale than you would gain by adding this feature.

After all, is that not what you want when you build a game? To make it as fun and enjoyable to as many people as possible?

And as fans of the game, do we not want to help grow a large, healthy community to encourage the growth of well asked for features such as personal caravans and the ability to raid other factions?

Sure it may be fun for some people to play out these events. Most may never even use the mechanic. But the public backlash would be IMMENSE, both from inside the community and much larger from out.

I can see no circumstances where rape would be beneficial to Tynan as a developer, or the community as a whole.

Something else to consider is if those who detest the game and refuse to buy it due to a feature are MORE than the people who would be intrigued by the addition.

Any decision can "lose sales" or "popularity" but is it more than what is gained?

For comparison, postal 2, a game which actually IS pretty morally reprehensible (this is a game you can use a cat as a silencer for a shotgun...) Actually has very good sales because, despite those whom say it is unforgivable, OTHERS see this, and it causes a backlash.

And this backlash is something to consider...as much as we all hated the RPS article on gender, it did create sales.

And you must also consider, someone vowing "I will never buy it!" is less important than "I JUST BOUGHT IT". Because someone vowing to never buy may of never bought it anyway. I can vow never to buy an airplane, but this means nothing if I never planned to do so anyway.

--------------

Maka, the words you are looking for is "Happens acceptably in current society". This is true, but this has nothing to do with nature, and isn't "natural". Nature boils down to men wish to mate. And when unaltered by society, rules, or other issues, rape is VERY natural actually. If a man has a desire to mate, and has never been told once in his life to consider if a girl wants it, why would he?

Also, I doubt rape has been removed from the entire universe, that is just silly. For 2 reasons

First, as you said, its impossible to keep from developing feelings, and contrary to what feminists say, not all rape is done out of a desire to inflict pain... Sometimes its literally a case of someone wants someone, the other doesn't and its forced...out of a slightly twisted expression of affection. Sure, you can argue its immoral, by the standards of its effects on society, but the motive is still the same, even if the effect is not.

On the other end of the spectrum is point 2... Rape as a means of sadism, destruction, and control for personal pleasure. Keep in mind raiders are a thing in this.  Why would raiders draw the line at rape? Its very common in criminals to not care about LAWS, even if they care about morals, because if one breaks laws already, why not break more? (its why the idea of gun control is broken....because you know, spree shooters wont give a fuck about your gun free zone) For raiders, this applies to their morals too...if morally (because morals are the motiv behind much of the stuff in rimworld, given the lack of overarching law, outside the reach of colonists exercising force to THEIR morals...because this is what law is) raiders are ok with murder, theft, mutilation, drugs, ect, why would they abhore rape?

We must look at why exactly we abhore ANYTHING in society.

Rape...murder...canibalism... drug use...mutilation... All of these have very rational reasons to be squeemish about.

Rape is stigmatized because societally, women are valuable, and having a woman "damaged" or "used" is damaging both physically and psychologically. So unless theres a good chance of the mate staying, we are apprehensive..and rape is certainly a good example of where the mate may leave, not to mention the sudden change of pace can have emotional and psychological effects.

Murder is stigmatized because its an irreversible damage, with far reaching effects, on friends, family, and the cultural rate of mercy as well (cultures with higher violence rates are less merciful, as violence is normalized) And most people generally wish to have mercy for themselves, friends, and family.

Cannibalism is stigmatized similarly to murder, because its extremely undignified for the dead, and devalues humans and humanity. It makes humans "less sacred" if they are viewed to be something to be consumed, which saps self esteem, self worth, and self value.

Drugs are stigmatized because they can cause intense psychological disturbances, physical anomalies, and damages related to them, destabilizing the person and those around them, and subjecting the  person / those around them to damage in attempt to feed the addiction.

Now considering ALL of these... ...Please consider, and think about, if someone would be fine with the stigma and risks of murder, cannibalism, and drugs...yet wouldn't be ok with rape, particularly with an "outsider". Because that is another factor, is applying morality based on "tribes" (i use the term tribe for any tight knit group). Where a "tribe" might treat outsiders with different rules than insiders. A tribe may think murder, theft is ok for outsiders, but bad for insiders (very common) and this could apply to rape as well. A raider might not rape anyone in the pirate faction, but someone from the colony? Fuck those guys... This is what they might think, because they are an outsider, and irrelevant.

The only way this would not apply is if they attempt to treat others fairly, which pirates dont do. They accept others hate them, and are enemies with them, and theres little to no motivation to not rape. Because, going back to the first motive of rape, attraction...if a raider captures a pretty girl, and fancies her...what, morally, will stop him from rape, if morally he already has 0 respect for her and her tribe?...Anything? If he already does not care for, or respect the will of others outside his tribe, why would he respect the woman saying no, when he has the desire to mate with her? A man not raping COMES from respect for the woman, and if respect for her is not a thing, how can rape be prevented?

Unless someone can answer this, there's not much more I can say.

[Ninjakitty66]

For comparison, postal 2, a game which actually IS pretty morally reprehensible (this is a game you can use a cat as a silencer for a shotgun...) Actually has very good sales because, despite those whom say it is unforgivable, OTHERS see this, and it causes a backlash.

Postol 2 is meant to be a dark humor game, but it's mostly shooting people. GTA is pretty much the same, but none of these have anything about rape, maybe topic wise? (I haven't really played either.) But not an actual feature in their games.

There are always going to be those moral breaking games, there was even one released recently last year or so about some guy going on a killing spree. It's mindless murder but it doesn't do much beyond that. Most of these games draw a line in the sand, even if it's close.

I also very much the creator would like to put in rape features, not to mention a lot of higher priorities on his list. I don't care if it becomes a mod, which someone could make but I'd rather not have it waved in our faces as a vanilla game feature.

If it's made into a mod there's no huge backlash on the company or the game, it's just something someone made to enhance the game for them self and others whom may enjoy it as well. That way people don't want to cross that border don't have to deal with it or feel they need speak out against it.

[mumblemumble]

Well, postal guy gets abducted by rednecks and almost raped in a gimp suit at one point so..It almost has that. not to mention theres a lot of BDSM themes here and there anyways.

I get the whole line in the sand thing, except for SIMULATORS, especially simulators of the good and bad of humanity (rimworld does well at this) trying to hide the worst just seems very artificial. Its like trying to see a cartoon villain as evil when they never kill anyone.

....still want someone to answer my question on why a raider wouldn't rape a girl...

[Plymouth]

-snip-

The only way to stop in that situation rape from commencing is for a girl to stop the raider with an overwhelming force, which, while very unlikely to happen in the first place, will bring the wrath of his tribe upon her, and she will be even worse off than before, possibly even dead.

But, to answer your second question, and to be exact "why a raider wouldn't rape a girl", raider might be a person who never enjoyed raping anyone, and he might prefer to avoid raping at all costs since, well, it's a horrible experience for him. Matter of personal preference, but no, nobody can forcibly stop him in the society where it's morally justifiable to not consider outsiders on the same level as the insiders, the only person who might stop him is the girl in question, but it's very unlikely that no retaliation will follow.

[mumblemumble]

But that makes little sense.....why would a raider find murder, theft, drug use, mutilation, ect "a damn fun time" but then suddenly be very serious about rape?

I mean sure...this MIGHT exist, but why the fuck would such a person be a raider to begin with? Such a person would be miserable in a pirate band if they found such events distressing.

And again, rape is a very broad word, encompassing anything from being beaten, stabbed, and damaged in every possible way, to JUST sex which is not consensual. And for the 2nd definition, I doubt it would register on the moral radar for someone regularly murdering people.

[Ninjakitty66]

There are some people that do a lot of bad that still draw a line in the sand. Some people don't mind murdering, selling drugs or stuff like that but some actually do not like the idea of raping someone, it really depends on the person. Raider that thinks like that would just likely kill her or ransom her.

Also I already see enough bad in humanity, just look at the news. It shouldn't be filled with so much realism that you would actually pick real life over playing a game to escape it for an hour or two. Not all simulators are 100% realism, also I'm not 100% against this I just prefer not see it a basic feature in the game. As I said some modder can likely easily make this for people who want it.

[Hikurac]

There was outrage over the relationship system... I can only imagine the RPS article if this concept was included. Not that I think it wouldn't be feasible or anything, but it's one of those things that would undoubtedly generate bad publicity for not a whole lot of benefit.

I don't really care to see this idea implemented, but it kind of irks me the wrong way, thinking about how much influence a bunch of click-bait writers have over gaming.

[IHateRegistering]

I don't really care to see this idea implemented, but it kind of irks me the wrong way, thinking about how much influence a bunch of click-bait writers have over gaming.

They don't, though. It may appear that way but it's really just the internet, an 'outrage' can be caused by a few motivated and energetic individuals. Everyone that passes by might come to the conclusion that this affects many people when in reality it really doesn't. I don't think Rimworld or Ludeon Studios really took any damage from this incident - I'd guess it pretty much had zero measurable impact. Developers shouldn't worry about internet backlashes at all.

That being said and considering this very specific topic, I'd say it would be much smarter to leave it to modders because of how our society currently works. It's not about the why or if it makes sense or not, it's simply a matter of what is.

[mumblemumble]

that still sounds like an anecdotal argument.

i mean, these aren't 2 bit thugs we are talking about, who kill people who are just "on their turf", these are pirates who use warfare as a LIFESTYLE.

People in that culture I simply cannot see extending mercy to others in any form that isn't profitable.