What do you guys think needs added to Rimworld for it to be considered done?

[PotatoeTater]

I like the consideration going in to this right now, a lot of good talks so I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I honestly feel that for a survival game sanitation and water are important factor.

I mean you could start out with digging a well and building an outhouse all the way to water pumps, water pipes, and tanks (like power cable, batteries, and generators) and septic tanks and toilets for colonists. It would go along with food needs and with water already being on the map I feel it's out of place to not have some water mechanic.

[skullywag]

When I read the topic title my first thought was "guys, please leave it, let Tynan get on with it and add what he feels like, he has a plan trust him", but i felt posting that would just turn this into what the thread eventually became anyway.

My thoughts on this are inline with Tynans, his point about "in a lot of gaming discussions these days, people blur away the distinction between "this game isn't done" and "I wish this game had more content"." is exactly what i feel started this thread. (apologies if im wrong)

After reading all this and from past experience I just wanted to add a voice to what i feel is (you may disagree) the majority, in that most people think in line with Tynan and are happy to let him continue as he is until he feels its done.

My last point is one I always make but i dont feel is necessarily important here as I feel Tynan is a level headed guy, but in the past when ive seen devs swamped like this with "your games not done" etc...theyve just gone and released it as its not no longer fun for them due to all the criticism. Simply put, dont poke the bear. (Tynan youre now a bear, sorry).

[S8n667]

One feature I'd like to see, is the ability to wander off and visit other colonies. Either to trade, or raid, loot and kidnap there woman and children.
That feature as a base feature would also open up a whole new world of modding opportunities.

As it currently stands, I haven't managed to find a game with even nearly as much depth as this.
The biggest problem with having something awesome, is that you just want more :p

[TLHeart]

Amen SSS.

Alpha  is defined as a game that is still in development, and that more content will be added. By calling it rimworld alpha XX, you are stating that the program is incomplete. Consumers make purchasing decisions upon the information given. You are giving the consumer the information right away, that the game is not DONE, not complete.

Yet you have announced that for you it is DONE. That is a violation of the moral obligation with the consumers since Rimworld is still an Alpha release. That is where the backlash towards you is coming from, you have violated the obligation that you sold to the consumer from the very title of the game.

Want to call the game done, that is your right as the creator, but it is also your moral obligation to label your product correctly.

[CheeseGromit]

I thought this was an innocent question looking to discuss features, phrased around concepts introduced in the dev blog and A11 preview video.

I think I must have missed something somewhere. I'm wondering about the thread that stemmed from the Steam dev blog announcement.

[skullywag]

Amen SSS.

Alpha  is defined as a game that is still in development, and that more content will be added. By calling it rimworld alpha XX, you are stating that the program is incomplete. Consumers make purchasing decisions upon the information given. You are giving the consumer the information right away, that the game is not DONE, not complete.

Yet you have announced that for you it is DONE. That is a violation of the moral obligation with the consumers since Rimworld is still an Alpha release. That is where the backlash towards you is coming from, you have violated the obligation that you sold to the consumer from the very title of the game.

Want to call the game done, that is your right as the creator, but it is also your moral obligation to label your product correctly.

Tynan stated it has enough content in his mind to be labelled as done, not that it is done. If it was done im sure hed remove the alpha moniker and throw out 1.0.

[mumblemumble]

An exploration / mission  / scouting / spelunking feature..  Essentially taking x colonists for tasks on areas of the world outside the base. Ie deep mines or assaulting back enemy bases

[akiceabear]

I don't think anything is needed, but what would increase enjoyment the most for me would be a large range of events, differentiated across biomes/other variables. As it stands the events across biomes feel fairly cut and paste.

Following that, I'd like to see the distance to final tech extend quite a bit. Superior Crafting does this already so its hardly mandatory, but I think vanilla would benefit quite a bit from this as it would delay the "stasis" point in base building.

Finally, new mechanics would be great - water, z-levels, FOW - although I think most of these are highly unlikely except in a sequel/expansion (if then even). I think the best return on dev time is in the first two points above.

[milon]

A number of people have stated that they're having trouble seeing RimWorld as complete because it lacks several mechanics etc necessary for a survival game.

RimWorld is not a survival game.

RimWorld is a storytelling game where drama and characterization are the most important things. Crash landing on a hostile planet is just the theme through which the story is told. The promised product is story telling and drama, and RimWorld delivers.  Yes, I too wish for more content, but Tynan has already delivered what he promised.

[Matthiasagreen]

Amen SSS.

Alpha  is defined as a game that is still in development, and that more content will be added. By calling it rimworld alpha XX, you are stating that the program is incomplete. Consumers make purchasing decisions upon the information given. You are giving the consumer the information right away, that the game is not DONE, not complete.

Yet you have announced that for you it is DONE. That is a violation of the moral obligation with the consumers since Rimworld is still an Alpha release. That is where the backlash towards you is coming from, you have violated the obligation that you sold to the consumer from the very title of the game.

Want to call the game done, that is your right as the creator, but it is also your moral obligation to label your product correctly.

My personal issue with this is to what extent can a player expect an alpha game to grow? If I bought it at alpha 1, I can understand a bit of expectation. But what if someone buys it at alpha 12 and Tynan releases it as complete at the next stage, only adding a few things? Were they deceived? Not really IMO, because being in alpha doesn't mean something in particular is being added, only that it is still a work in progress. At any moment, an alpha can stop being an alpha. When some people buy an alpha, they look at how it is and gamble that it will become what they expect. Most people buy the game because it looks enjoyable how it is and want to play it. The issue Tynan is having is that those few people are feeling like they lost that gamble and are blaming Tynan. You don't lose money in the stock market because a company didn't do well, you lose money because you put money in the stock market.

As for deceiving the buyers by leaving it in Alpha, thats bollocks. It would be if Tynan wasn't still adding stuff to it, but the changelog obviously shows that isn't the case. Even then, there has to be one alpha that becomes the next stage. Alpha is also, after all, for testing a product with a smaller group before releasing it to a larger audience. All he is saying is if this was the last alpha, he would feel like he gave people a well rounded product, which he did.

[killer117]

Im not too fussed over wether people think the games finished or not. I like it as i is. I think it has huge potential, and im glad tynan takes our sugestions in acount in his development of the game. This is the first game ive ever played where ive had that, and i like it. I try to add my little bits in. If tynan released the game tommorow and said its gone, id still say it an excelant game, id just be slightly disapointed for that more that could be added. But i love the direction the games going, and while this feels more like a finished and whole game than most ive played on pc, id still like that little more. When tynan says its done, ill feel its done. Maybe there was more he could do, and maybe there was more potential there. But that dosent change the fact that this is an excellant game as is, and is well worthy to be called complete.

[JimmyAgnt007]

I think the original question of this thread might have been better stated as 'if you were the Dev' what would it take for you to consider it done. 

Personally I think its all there.  Maybe a few features fleshed out more but my $:FUN ratio has already been met and then some.  Whatever obligations Tynan had with HIS game he has met.  So at this point its about what he wants to do moving forward.  A break to rest and not get burned out is his prerogative.  Adding more updates is something he should do because he thinks its a cool idea.  Not because other people told him too. 

Want something else?  ask or become a modder.  I think we can all come up with a list of things we want to see in the game. Maybe he will do them, maybe a modder will. 

[Kegereneku]

My motivation for participating here were simple.

Right now the game is labeled and sold as an Alpha and player return (aka Alpha testing) help development. So even if I know Tynan is torn about releasing it on Steam as 'finished', I and other are still within rational reason to discuss what we think would make Rimworld to be considered by other (following our purely subjective view) as 'done'.

I'm sorry Tynan if it feel like a pressure because this is not and cannot be, as you checked and made it known yourself, you are under no contractual obligation to add more beside your interpretation of the Kickstarter's goal.

Anyway, even big conventional-game are sometime reviewed as 'clearly unfinished' despite the legal status of the game.
STALKER : Shadow of Chernobyl for example, a wonderful and immersive game... is known as incomplete and mods were created to add the feature that were planned, coded but never fully activated or integrated.

Just to say that status like 'Done' and 'Finished' are subjective in essences.
You could have marketed a "Pong game" game and delivered an exact copy of the original Pong game, people could still say it lack a filter to make it look like an old CRT display, or make it an Arcade-game within a VR space.

[NoImageAvailable]

Indeed. People will make assumptions about the future based on alpha status alone. They're wrong to do so, but they will do it. I'd say as a marketing strategic analysis, SSS you're spot-on with your concerns. I wouldn't say that this means that alpha status implies that anything is actually promised in particular. It's the difference between "what is a good business decision", "what will people assume", and "what are your actual obligations".

People generally make assumptions in the absence of complete information. Since you can't know everything about a game until you actually play it such assumptions are inevitable. However, these assumptions are not made in a vacuum, but shaped in part by how it is presented and in part by how it compares to similar games.

By calling it an Alpha you essentially tell people that the game will receive significant content additions until such a time that it can be considered complete. What a complete game entails isn't exactly defined but it is generally assumed that all the important features of the genre are there, that there is a sufficient amount of polish and content, that all the features are properly fleshed out and integrated. Now where exactly these marks lie is where assumptions come in.

Let's look at how Rimworld presents itself: it is advertised as a sci-fi colony sim inspired thematically by Firefly and the "deep simulation" of Dwarf Fortress. Now that last part already carries a lot of implications with it, because it implies that the game will have a similar depth and scope as Dwarf Fortress, with similar features, etc. This is reinforced by the price point of $30, twice the price of normal indie games. By charging this much you basically imply your game delivers twice the value of a normal indie game, meaning more features and more content, not just some kind of "DF lite".

As of right now Rimworld might have enough value to be on par with other indie games, but it is certainly far from the depth of Dwarf Fortress. This might be in part due to the difference in development time but even so I think the difference is too big for the price point. Additionally there are a number of features that are poorly fleshed out, such as faction relations. They are barely present and not integrated into general gameplay. You might point out that it was never established how extensive these features were going to be exactly, but nevertheless the expectation was there and it stemmed mostly from comparison to other games where you generally don't see such poorly implemented mechanics. Furthermore, again comparing to other games the overall amount of content seems poor.

You can point out that you never "promised" this or that and that these expectations are all subjective and you'd be right, but that doesn't make them invalid. Since you never provided a detailed road-map with all the features exactly laid out people had to fill in the gaps themselves using information you provided them. Of course that doesn't mean every crazy feature request has to be fulfilled but there is such a thing as reasonable expectations and a product can and should be judged by how it lives up to them, even though the exact parameters are subjective.

Additionally I find it very rude and disrespectful of you to tell people they are wrong for making their assumptions. They are making them because they lack information and the fact they are willing to make business transactions based on them is what enabled you in the first place. When people backed your Kickstarter they did so with only a vague description of what the finished game might be and whatever assumptions they drew from it. Had they acted in the way you recommend nobody would have backed it because what you offered back then was not worth that kind of money. Yet now you stand here and scold people for making supposedly bad decisions you yourself enticed them to make.

[Tericc]

I don't talk much on these forums. Not because there is nothing to talk about. In fact just the opposite. I just keep my mouth shut unless there is something missing that must be said> my own prerogative.
I been here since alpha 7. not a long time for some but long enough to know what is going on and most of all what I dont know.

I been a Pc gamer since I was 5, but did not have anything under my belt till the herald of fps "Doom" took its throne back in the early 90's

My point:

I have a theory of what is going on here and why Tynan is upset(figuratively rather then literally) but also the other spectrum of why people are rather then making a suggestion but rather

Indeed. People will make assumptions about the future based on alpha status alone. They're wrong to do so, but they will do it.

Indeed..

This is why im bringing up the other part/field of view/ or rather the assuming what may or may not happen.

:Fear:

This is a great game. beyond the scope many could hope for and dream of. The many years of pc gaming i have done and never seen a game like this.

Before there is interjection, there is dwarf fortress. I'm aware of this game, and like most who feverishly play rim world that knew of DF had tried there hand at that game. Some figured it out. Many do not or did not have the time to do so. This is not a crime but rather just a educated guess. (not based on any statistics)

Back on point: This game made by Tynan is arguably the first of its kind. Not the game itself but its user friendliness. From the mods to the game style to its underlying approach to simplicity yet as deep as any abyss.

I don't simply like this game. I can honestly say as it is now this is a game that 10 years down the road I would be surfing the forums trying to find a fix because my operating system is to much for this old game. Im sure some of you have come across games in where u have to get dos box or other work a around to get the ol floppy games to work.

This is that game. one of few that will last.

So where does the FEAR play into this?
Because this game is as great is it is? Or perhaps Its because it is still being worked on? A bit of both... Indeed this is interesting, a game like this and still in alpha. So much to do and being worked on. Tynan has inspirations, wish lists and his own in visioning that this game can and still could have.

So this makes people(some) afraid.

Belive it or not there are people right now in these forums who only been gaming since the early to mid Y2000.
Thnx to early access and other political bs these new comers don't know or simply not used to the concept of the old school alpha. A game that dose not go into beta or "release" till its feature complete (decided from the devs & publishers)

Conclusion:
This is a new thing for many to conceive.  The fear is derived from the fact that Tynan can and by all right could say.. Rimworld is done Especialy from the state of games today that are released and are not even finished or forbid... functional.

So assumptions are going to be rampant if they are not already. either by the ill informed, by fear, or simply entitlement. Its going to happen. it can be innocent or it could be a direct attack. But it all grounds to the fact that this is an epic game and any and all assumptions, predictions, suggestions, wishes.. its all based on complimenting the game.

For the few, soon to be many once this game goes to steam. its almost incomprehensible that a game as well made and continuing to be "made" as Rimworld is, to still be in alpha.

I salute you Tynan for understanding and willing to continue your great work in whatever form it may take.

:::This is in no way to describe the OP or topic just a simple observation:::