need help building defenses

Started by megrim, July 18, 2017, 10:01:34 AM

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megrim

the raids are just insane in this game. no matter what storyteller you choose, once you get going, you are outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1 in pawns. there is just no way to survive the RNG not taking out 1 or 2 of your pawns in a firefight.

i've even tried adding some mods , nothing really helps


Canute

1. You need to change the difficult of the storyteller not the storyteller itself. The difficult adjust how strong the raid will be. Tribal will come with much more people then raiders would do.

Without mods i suggest to build 2x1 strongest wall segments your people can take cover behind. Alternativ building sandbags.
You can build some forward defence positions, and connect them with floors, then your people can shoot (sniper & bolt-action) and when the enemys start to shoot back, you can retreat to the next one.

If you got shield belts, get 1-2 equiped with them and put them a bit forward your range fighter but behind cover (wall/sandbag) . Enemys mosttimes shoot at the closest and the shieldbelt protect them awhile, special when they take cover.

I wouldn't place turrets just at free plains, because there are many weapon which got a larger range then turrets. Build something emenys need to enter and are at the firerange of the turrets before they can fire back.
Not to speak to place some traps on their way.

Lowkey1987

Step 1. Acquire a Shock- or Beserkerlance.
Step 2. With this you can down a raider, which carry a rocket lauchner. This saves your life.
Step 3. With this Rocket Lauchner, you can defeat other raiders.
Step 4. Profit???

Also: Defence is superior.
Use doorways, corners and everything. As tribal, in year 1, i often fight between my houses. So if my men get attacked, they quickliy escape in a room, while another pawn open his door and can shoot the raider in the back.


Better: Build sandbags and walls to hide. If you have some steel left over: Build deadfall traps before the sandbags.
Sometimes its better to let the raider come close before attacking. Mostly if you have brawlers and short range weapons.

PS: Give us a screenshot of your base. Perhaps we have some tips!

megrim

I rage quit long before rocket launchers. the grenades are enough to piss me off. 

megrim

it wouldn't be so bad if the game rained colonists on you like dwarf fortress does. (oh, you built a nice statue? here's 30 dudes)

the game is SO stingy about new colonists. and if you lose a skilled colonist, its a huge blow.

that was one great part of dwarf fortress. you never sent out your skilled masons, miners, etc to the front line. you had a trained military.

if this game is going to expect you to fight huge battles (especially with the firepower and the crippling effects of the RNG doing things like permanent incapacitation to the brain, etc... and the completely overpowered grenades that you need to micro to dodge)...

it should be raining colonists on you

i dont mind fighting a big battle, but give me more troops to fight, and dont expect me to fight only with cooks, researchers, etc. then go back to the whole training cycle infinitely as I lose my best people to the RNG.

Lowkey1987

Raids way harder in Alpha 17?
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=34473.0

Perhaps this could help you. Might me an issue with your version.
I am a long term player and... didnt mind. Rimworld isnt DF. You are alone and will never have military which handle everything. Perhaps you get your own deathtrap, but this is up to you. My best builder is an excelent shooter because he love to protect.

But perhaps you have to play the battle to the end. Normaly enemys retreat after 50% are defeated. And mostly the story teller try to push you pawns to a number.
Try to adjust. Try other things. Use every weapon you have.

Dargaron

#6
To build on what Canute said about traps: you don't even necessarily need steel traps (although those are ideal): massed stone traps are my primary defense at the moment.

The current paradigm seems to be using automated or semi-automated defenses wherever possible.

I'm not particularly good at Rimworld yet, but here's my current setup on a Tundra map, for a Rich Explorer without wanderers or escape pods. The main structure was completed at the end of the first year, while the second year was mostly focused on more traps and carpet-making.


The doors allow your colonists to get out without stepping on traps, but if the main door is left open, the raiders will try to attack workbenches and such inside the base, and thus, walk on the traps. If any get through, I use the corridors to divide them. It helps that you *only* need to kill half of the attackers before they start running away.

EDIT: That said, I'd also like raids to get a major overhaul in future: both for different scaling and to have different classes of raids, with the most severe types having some method of at least partial mitigation before things come to blows.

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Shurp

How do you handle sappers with this design?
If you give an annoying colonist a parka before banishing him to the ice sheet you'll only get a -3 penalty instead of -5.

And don't forget that the pirates chasing a refugee are often better recruits than the refugee is.

Canute

For sappers and sieges you don't need a defence, you should assault them.

TheMeInTeam

#9
Quote from: Canute on July 19, 2017, 08:44:32 AM
For sappers and sieges you don't need a defence, you should assault them.

If you do that without setting up for it in advance on extreme, you WILL lose people, and quite possibly your colony.

Fortunately, it is possible to set up to handle both in advance.  For sieges you can make walls + door in a couple spots ~25-30 tiles in from edge of map (maybe a bit more) that let you harass from cover (or even shoot through open/shut door).  For sappers, a few structures around outside of base that let you fire on them while they try to breach walls can completely screw the AI's script, but at minimum will get a lot of kills.  Here's one example of prepared defense for sappers:



I was able to do so much damage they barely got into trap maze after breaking from sapping script:


Dargaron

Quote from: Shurp on July 19, 2017, 06:38:42 AM
How do you handle sappers with this design?

Well...probably not as well as TheMeInTeam does, (as I said, I haven't managed to "git gud" yet) but fighting sappers uses a similar method: wait for the sappers at the nearest doorway, take a couple pot shots at the guy with the grenades, then run back inside and move to a different entrance, rinsing and repeating until the grenadiers are dead. The big weak spot is the Eastern wall: I done goofed, I should've left a couple corridors open in between the bedrooms so that I can exit from that side. It helps that during the winter months, I can move twice as fast indoors as the raiders can outdoors. But I should build a sniper rifle once my primary pawn has a decent crafting level.

I haven't had to deal with a siege yet, but that's why I rushed mortars. I have one and a few shells (should build a second one now that I have my second colonist), which I intend to use to blow up their shells while they're setting up. IIRC, if the siegers can't use their mortars, they'll attack normally, which means traps ahoy.

@TheMeInTeam: Is there a reason your bunkers don't have corners? I've seen buildings like that before, but what does it do? Does it make it easier to enfilade enemies taking cover on the building?

Dargaron

Quote from: Dargaron on July 19, 2017, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Shurp on July 19, 2017, 06:38:42 AM
How do you handle sappers with this design?

Probably not as well as TheMeInTeam does, (as I said, I haven't managed to "git gud" yet) but fighting sappers uses a similar method: wait for the sappers at the nearest doorway, take a couple pot shots at the guy with the grenades, then run back inside and move to a different entrance, rinsing and repeating until the grenadiers are dead. The big weak spot is the Eastern wall: I done goofed, I should've left a couple corridors open in between the bedrooms so that I can exit from that side. It helps that during the winter months, I can move twice as fast indoors as the raiders can outdoors. But I should build a sniper rifle once my primary pawn has a decent crafting level.

I haven't had to deal with a siege yet, but that's why I rushed mortars. I have one and a few shells (should build a second one now that I have my second colonist), which I intend to use to blow up their shells while they're setting up. IIRC, if the siegers can't use their mortars, they'll attack normally, which means traps ahoy.

@TheMeInTeam: Is there a reason your bunkers don't have corners? I've seen buildings like that before, but what does it do? Does it make it easier to enfilade enemies taking cover on the building?

megrim

Here is the evolution of my fort. I created it based on suggestions from other people and studying their forts. I dont like killboxes or exploiting the AI, but rather winning through a natural tactical feel.

I will tell you that I am a heavy user of mods, but I did _not_ use the embrasure mod, as I read it is completely OP and breaks the AI

Also note that, despite the fact I have a turret (mannable) from a turret mod, I have never used it.

forgot to mention my mode is "Cassandra" with "some difficulty"

Another comment I will make, is that a sapper raid came, and got confused, and didnt know what to do, after I attacked it and then fell back to my fortress. it came somewhat near the ancient evil on my map, which i did not want sapped. eventually they starved (one bled out) and left.

i did lose 1 dog, pinky, in my fort defense so far. no colonists have perished. this is a source of pride for me. pinky died in the sapper raid. she probably saved everyone's life.

stage 1 of my fort built out. very humble. note the large concrete area poured outside. this was an idea I got from people talking about floor movement. Also, the sandbags. this design helped alot


the fort has outgrown its concrete footprint. people were getting tired of the barracks, and the fort population is growing. the barracks would later cause a 4 man outbreak of sleeping sickness, that devastated the medicine supply. also note the humble beginnings of the hospital, and the leather industry that set up shop in the east. note the kitchen is still pretty humble. 1 lucky person has their own furnished bedroom. agriculture has not began and we are living hand to mouth


the fort has grown much here . the science wing was established for the furtherment of my goal to produce huge amounts of drugs and sell them. prosthetics labs have been estiablisehd, but the colony seeks an expert doctor who wont bumble installations.  after the sleeping sickness incident and a flu incident it was decided by all the colonists that the hospital size should be doubled. a lone scyther attacked and blew out a colonists right lung. the scyther now sits in the fridge, waiting for a mechanist bench to be built and to be disassembled. this would hapen later on, but the doctor botched the operation and the right arm was wasted..


the colony is under the effect of both a volcanic fallout and toxic fallout. everyone is couped up due to the bitter environment outside. running shoes have been laced up, however, to grab the animals when they die from the poisionous dust.


the best part of the toxic fallout event is the meat festival. as you can see, the kitchens overflow and buckle from the avalanche of meat. I think I canned around 400 cans of meat.

Mday

Don't take every random pawns into your colony. More pawns = more enemy spawning per raid.

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Mday

#14
That dead fall trap is super late game. Here is what you can do early game.
Instead of recruiting more pawns, train more animals for defence. Build an arena and some backdoors for your animal to ambush the enemy. Aviod friendly fires (in most case it means not using guns at all) and get some EMP to deal with mechanoids. Works on every threat type except tribe. For tribe raid you need mass mortars to thin them out first.
Rise boars for defends, alpacas for wool and silver. Train the alpacas so you can deal with ambush easier.

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