[MOD] (Alpha 7) TechTreeMinami v3.3 RIMWORLD COMPLETE

[Goo Poni]

Ok, fixed everything.

I'll write up feedback, but somethings that immediately stuck out:

Beacons are way too high on the tech tree.

It's entirely possible (I have this at the moment) to lose your beacon (from bombardment) and not be able to replace it. Roaming traders tend to set up far outside your colony once you've put defensive walls in, and I'm currently stuck in a loop - cannot trade, cannot get beacon to trade, cannot get advanced modifier machine bit to make advanced modifier to make beacon.

Solar panels = impossible to make and too high on the tech tree

See above. You can build oil refineries before solar panels. This is obviously borked for balance reasons.


Weapon lockers and other storage lockers lack the universal 'tick / untick all'

This isn't so much an issue with food storage, but is a massive pain with weapon lockers.

Guns are real world models - ugg

The guns mod is also more than a little silly - functionally, there's no point in having 100 odd weapons that are all the same. Needs serious pruning. And no, I don't want every Earth national variant of a gun that shoots bullets in epic detail - it doesn't fit the SF theme and strikes me as oddly obsessive / creepy in that "Ohhh, you collect WW2 'memorabilia', I seeee" way.

There's then x8+ different smithies for each type etc. Waaay too much. I suspect this is a mod that's been added to the package 'just because'. Needs seriously toning down and/or not in the total package.

Campfires need a light / damp option

Can't switch them off. Can't tell them not to use planks. Can't easily switch out foods (veg / meat). There's also a bug with them regarding rain: once rained on, they apparently break permanently and you cannot restart them. In the end I rebuilt one with a roof over it.

Atm I can do nothing else but constantly churn out 1000's of grilled foods with no option to micro the thing. Leads into...

Food tree is dysfunctional in the extreme

Why does basic dish take smoked meat? This doesn't work for two reasons: firstly, any RL cook will tell you that this is insane; secondly, see above issues with campfires. The entire process sticks right there. Raw meat takes 11 basic meat. Uff.

Added to this - there seems to be only one recipe that you can use to train your cooking up to 7 where the basic dishes can be made (both in soup menu and in food preparation station). I didn't start with any cooking, and haven't found any colonists with it - and in 1 1/2 yrs, my highest is 5.

Concoction Table doesn't work for med packs

I have all the ingredients, it's set up correctly, but no colonist can use it.




I'll add more - all in all the mod pack makes Rimworld very very good, there's just a lot of niggles.

Issue #1 - Beacons
The beacon is at electronic devices. It's a fairly early tech, IMO. Metal Synthesis > Makeshift Contraptions > Electronic Devices, beacon acquired. It should only take a couple days at most unless you are leaving research as a footnote. I tend to have someone simply research and research and research until I have Weapon Smithing, BioTech and Basic Furnishings, which is a fairly comfortable point to be at.

Issue #2 - Solar Panels
I assume you talk only of standard solar panels as you can build shoddy ones quite readily from Makeshift Contraptions. You can also build Wind Compressors and TBH, those things should serve you for quite some time. I had 4-5 of those things holding up my colony for quite a while. Using Oil is a sort of mid-game stepping stone to lift you off of the makeshift stuff but at the cost of requiring a dedicated hauler or to be playing so slowly that most of your colony is idle. Otherwise oil drums are constantly empty.

Issue #3 - Weapon lockers
I have no idea why you would use those over just creating a stockpile for weapons. They take up the same amount of space and store the same amount of weapons, except one uses resources and the other does not. My trade beacon's stockpile tends to act as the armoury, new colonists can pick up spare weaponry from there until I can build them something.

Issue #4 - Project Armoury
You can turn this off. Go into the mods and disable the Project Armoury TTM patch. I find that there is quite a lot of bloat in the armoury with duplicate weapons (Barrett M82/M107, same gun pretty much). Vanilla weapons might feel a little bland though with just one of each weapon type. A pistol, shotgun, rifle, assault rifle, energy rifle and sniper rifle. And an assortment of tribal stuff.

Issue #5 - Campfires
You don't fiddle with the campfire itself, you fiddle with the woodpile beside it. Same with the grilling racks, fiddle with their storage so that they do not store raw veg and you should avoid having 2-300 vegetable kebabs going rotten. Then again, if you have some haulers, bring them to the trade beacon and sell them.

Issue #6 - Food
It's a supply chain. There's a couple more steps involved beyond "to make food, have meat and two veg". Chop up a creature, prepare the meat, smoke it (smoked salmon, anyone?) then cook it into a meal. Prepared meat doesn't go off but smoked meat is food, which can lead to it going off or being eaten by colonists when you would prefer to cook it into something better. You'll probably want a dedicated cook to keep on top of this. If you leave everyone to do everything, nothing will get done because so many things need to be done.

Issue #7 - Producing medicine
You'll have to provide a screenshot with puush, screenSHU or some other program similar to these. I've never had an issue producing medicine. IIRC, you do need someone skilled in medicine or crafting, I don't remember which exactly and if no-one is capable, pfft, you ain't gonna get a single drop of morphine out of those herbs.

[Oragepoilu]

medicine need lv med 5 & lv craft 3, 2 herbs of each, and a medical supplies
Medical supplies need lv craft 10, 10 metal, 2 wood planks and 5 cloth.

Check everything because it work for me, its very likely you just have missed something

[Cat123]

Issue #1 - Beacons
The beacon is at electronic devices. It's a fairly early tech, IMO. Metal Synthesis > Makeshift Contraptions > Electronic Devices, beacon acquired. It should only take a couple days at most unless you are leaving research as a footnote. I tend to have someone simply research and research and research until I have Weapon Smithing, BioTech and Basic Furnishings, which is a fairly comfortable point to be at.

Nope. I'm talking about the production chain.

I've researched the entire tree up past bionics, and the beacon doesn't appear at any table - not even at the electronic workbench. This guide - https://i.imgur.com/xDUsKsN.jpg - clearly shows you need an advanced mod table to build them. Currently my game is now broken / unwinnable: the land traders won't set up close enough for me to trade a single item so I cannot get a beacon, and of course I can't contact ships.

It's broken, both in design terms and gameplay terms.

Issue #2 - Solar Panels
I assume you talk only of standard solar panels as you can build shoddy ones quite readily from Makeshift Contraptions. You can also build Wind Compressors and TBH, those things should serve you for quite some time. I had 4-5 of those things holding up my colony for quite a while. Using Oil is a sort of mid-game stepping stone to lift you off of the makeshift stuff but at the cost of requiring a dedicated hauler or to be playing so slowly that most of your colony is idle. Otherwise oil drums are constantly empty.

Again, this is about balance. With an advanced oil refinery up (4500w) there's no reason to build the proper solar.

Again, this is a bad design choice putting the parts too high up the production chain.

Issue #3 - Weapon lockers
I have no idea why you would use those over just creating a stockpile for weapons. They take up the same amount of space and store the same amount of weapons, except one uses resources and the other does not. My trade beacon's stockpile tends to act as the armoury, new colonists can pick up spare weaponry from there until I can build them something.

Two reasons: aesthetics and practicality. Lockers mean it's easier to streamline defenses so that I can put electro grenades near the kill zone to swap in case of mechs.

Added to that, it's still a bug / broken.

Issue #4 - Project Armoury
You can turn this off. Go into the mods and disable the Project Armoury TTM patch. I find that there is quite a lot of bloat in the armoury with duplicate weapons (Barrett M82/M107, same gun pretty much). Vanilla weapons might feel a little bland though with just one of each weapon type. A pistol, shotgun, rifle, assault rifle, energy rifle and sniper rifle. And an assortment of tribal stuff.

Thus my comments about pruning.

Issue #5 - Campfires
You don't fiddle with the campfire itself, you fiddle with the woodpile beside it. Same with the grilling racks, fiddle with their storage so that they do not store raw veg and you should avoid having 2-300 vegetable kebabs going rotten. Then again, if you have some haulers, bring them to the trade beacon and sell them.

Again, I stated you can't easily fiddle with the woodpile / grills.

Issue #6 - Food
It's a supply chain. There's a couple more steps involved beyond "to make food, have meat and two veg". Chop up a creature, prepare the meat, smoke it (smoked salmon, anyone?) then cook it into a meal. Prepared meat doesn't go off but smoked meat is food, which can lead to it going off or being eaten by colonists when you would prefer to cook it into something better. You'll probably want a dedicated cook to keep on top of this. If you leave everyone to do everything, nothing will get done because so many things need to be done.

I'm aware that it's a production chain.

It's a production chain that is bottle-necked and dysfunctional atm. Not having skill 7 in cooking -> never being able to raise the skill.

Added to this is the fact that smoked meats are eaten raw, rarely cooked with. Smoked salmon = eaten raw. Jerky = eaten raw. And so on.

Issue #7 - Producing medicine
You'll have to provide a screenshot with puush, screenSHU or some other program similar to these. I've never had an issue producing medicine. IIRC, you do need someone skilled in medicine or crafting, I don't remember which exactly and if no-one is capable, pfft, you ain't gonna get a single drop of morphine out of those herbs.

Ah, now that did explain it. My doctor had crafting turned off. Level 10 doc is enough to craft med kits.




Anyhow, the mod pack is very good overall, with some decent thought into it. It's made vanilla look unappealing However... I've now got to abandon my 1yr October colony because I cannot get beacons. >.<

[Goo Poni]

I've never seen land traders setting up far away and why can't you send someone over to them to trade even if they are setting up far away?

Last patch, my base was completely potato powered. By the time I had hooked up that geothermal, it was completely unnecessary. This patch, my base is still potato powered but with windmills instead of shoddy tesla coils. I think that geothermal and solar panels are a QoL upgrade but are otherwise not needed. Plus, the low-tech power generators aren't interrupted by eclipses or map-wide electronic dysfunction. I had no batteries in my base. I find the early game stuff wickedly more useful and not nearly so prohibitive to install.

One could just as easily set up a stockpile that only takes EM grenades, but to each their own. The stockpile can be scaled as necessary and doesn't need you to click every few tiles to then check or uncheck what you want stored. It's not a bug or broken. Lots of weapon lockers are impractical. Unless a modder hacks together a locker that acts like a locker (a "trade" system with a stored inventory of weapons that colonists can readily swap weapons at is how it might be done off the top of my head), using multiples of them is gonna get really tedious.

No comment on Project Armoury

Can you not mess with your wood piles or grills? How many do you have if it's such a pain or chore? If they've been buried under numerous stacks of vegetable kebabs, I'd opt tearing them down and moving them a little and tune them accordingly once built. It only takes a moment. If you were doing this over and over and over and over like with weapon lockers, I might have a little sympathy, but one woodpile and three grills should take you but a minute to sort out and be done with them.

If you've decided to roll without a good cook, you can use other methods such as soup to tide the colony over until such a time that you can acquire a better cook either through slave trade or capture.

No comment on medicine production.

[Oragepoilu]

About the cook, you earn xp from butchering corpses. Soup also give xp, and doesn't require any level.

For the beacons, actually you can only have them from :
Starting pods (x3)
Ground-traders (usually by one or two)
Ship-trader (Some ship have a lot of them)
Crafting from the Advanced Modifier (to place down this workbench, you need a part from a trader)
Random event (i'm not sure for the crates), but sometime a colonist will have a stroke and you will be send a LOT of the same item around him; So only two chance from the whole list of item to find either the beacon or the Advanced modifier)

So let's talk about the problem itself.
You didn't read the first post, because if you had read this, you would have seen :

o If you want more challenge and totally ramp up the difficulty this RimWorld mod may be just for you!

So, after i'v cleared this part, let's see ... you need at last one beacon (removable in case you placed it somewhere wrong) to have a Orbital Trade Bacon, a second to access ship, and a third to call ships.
you ended playing so much badly that you loose you THREE beacons. this mean you failed THREE times.
So bad, you loose ! try again !

What's the problem dude ? you just got punished to playing bad. Next time, if you get attacked by some mortar and only have one beacon, sell it, it won't be destroyed (selling is instant in case you forget)

Local ground-trader come near you "blue home area", so if they go to far, reduce the area (just let at last one square near each building to avoid fire spreading).
You can even use this to avoid them going somewhere and force them to go only in one area, but your colonist will wander everywhere.

Disregard this, they still sometime come near buildings. They tend to stick to the border of the home area tough.
About the other part i agree that it could be rebalanced a bit around.

[Cat123]

For the beacons, actually you can only have them from :
Starting pods (x3)
Ground-traders (usually by one or two)
Ship-trader (Some ship have a lot of them)
Crafting from the Advanced Modifier (to place down this workbench, you need a part from a trader)
Random event (i'm not sure for the crates), but sometime a colonist will have a stroke and you will be send a LOT of the same item around him; So only two chance from the whole list of item to find either the beacon or the Advanced modifier)

Ground traders don't come near my base anymore, and if I trade with them there's simply no option to exchange goods with them > the "not enough silver" issue, even though I have 4k+.

Your list actually highlights the issue - the beacon antenna are buildable on the production stage below, and there's no reason for a single low level item to cause so many issues.

If the solution is :cheesing: (i.e. selling the antenna to keep it safe) then you know something is broken.


New things:

Colonist # balance

With so many new processes, and new events, the pool of available colonists is actually lower. I've only been able to get 7 so far, have never seen a slaver ship (even if I could talk to them) and so on.

Surprised no-one has modded tasers / stun guns yet.

AI colonists

Nice touch - should be cleaner robots though! Cleaning is a low reward job and time is precious with the new mods. A horde of cleaning AIs is just what I need...

[Goo Poni]

You won't see ships at all until you have the capacity to trade with them in the first place. Building your antennae in a high traffic area of an open colony that might lead to them being bombed a lot (mortars only target colonists, you can use that to your advantage by drafting someone and having them stand close to the mortar but out of range of their guns.) is silly. I've always kept mine out of the way because I don't want to see it and I barely use it. The orbital beacon must have a stockpile within it's radius and that stockpile must contain the items you wish to trade. Simply having silver stashed somewhere within the base is moot. There is a stun gun, actually.

[Cat123]

You won't see ships at all until you have the capacity to trade with them in the first place. Building your antennae in a high traffic area of an open colony that might lead to them being bombed a lot (mortars only target colonists, you can use that to your advantage by drafting someone and having them stand close to the mortar but out of range of their guns.) is silly. I've always kept mine out of the way because I don't want to see it and I barely use it. The orbital beacon must have a stockpile within it's radius and that stockpile must contain the items you wish to trade. Simply having silver stashed somewhere within the base is moot. There is a stun gun, actually.

I'm aware of the conditionals to trading, and the mechanics. (Gee, helpful forum).

This is the insanity at the moment:



Can't trade, can't buy beacon, game is totally broken. At the very least, land based traders should have an inbuilt beacon within X tiles of their tent.

[Oragepoilu]

For the beacons, actually you can only have them from :
Starting pods (x3)
Ground-traders (usually by one or two)
Ship-trader (Some ship have a lot of them)
Crafting from the Advanced Modifier (to place down this workbench, you need a part from a trader)
Random event (i'm not sure for the crates), but sometime a colonist will have a stroke and you will be send a LOT of the same item around him; So only two chance from the whole list of item to find either the beacon or the Advanced modifier)

Ground traders don't come near my base anymore, and if I trade with them there's simply no option to exchange goods with them > the "not enough silver" issue, even though I have 4k+.

Your list actually highlights the issue - the beacon antenna are buildable on the production stage below, and there's no reason for a single low level item to cause so many issues.

If the solution is :cheesing: (i.e. selling the antenna to keep it safe) then you know something is broken.


New things:

Colonist # balance

With so many new processes, and new events, the pool of available colonists is actually lower. I've only been able to get 7 so far, have never seen a slaver ship (even if I could talk to them) and so on.

Surprised no-one has modded tasers / stun guns yet.

AI colonists

Nice touch - should be cleaner robots though! Cleaning is a low reward job and time is precious with the new mods. A horde of cleaning AIs is just what I need...

Only a really few people have issues with the beacons - all of them are new to the game/mod. I can't even call this an issue because it happen only if you have done three time huge mistake (loose three building with beacon inside). My option of cheesing is to help you because you don't seems to be able to do with the difficult included with this mod.
It's not broken if you loose when you make mistake. Without this there is no challenge, especially if the game + mod tend to go toward survival-like style.

There is robot actually with a mod included in the pack (MAI). Two version mainly ; the low tech first version can haul/clean, and the second can have part to do other stuff as well. In your next game, after you took some time to avoid loosing your three beacon again, try to go in the tech tree toward the MAI and build a few - don't rely on them too much because you will have trouble when you run out of energy (and they cost a lot) tough.


Ha, local trader only sell in the same fashion as the base game : you need to place a beacon and put stuff around, that's why i was saying you need at last one beacon to survive.

the guy who made this explained that they can't actually do without this because trading is hard coded.

[Cat123]

Only a really few people have issues with the beacons - all of them are new to the game/mod. I can't even call this an issue because it happen only if you have done three time huge mistake (loose three building with beacon inside).

There is robot actually with a mod included in the pack (MAI). Two version mainly ; the low tech first version can haul/clean, and the second can have part to do other stuff as well. In your next game, after you took some time to avoid loosing your three beacon again, try to go in the tech tree toward the MAI and build a few - don't rely on them too much because you will have trouble when you run out of energy (and they cost a lot) tough.

Actually, I've researched all the AI - no cleaner specific model (although it might be the lowest one?) - can't build them, of course.

And no - simply because you know how to avoid something as trivial as beacon # limits doesn't mean it isn't broken.

Your problem is having played too long and assuming total knowledge = "that's balanced". At no point should loosing a single item (limited to 3 without trading) cause the game to be unwinnable apart from colonists. This is a game about colonists, not about "saving your precious beacon". If you can't see that this is a massive design flaw, then don't reply.

Major case of the blinkers there chap. :rolleyes:

[Oragepoilu]

Actually, I've researched all the AI - no cleaner specific model (although it might be the lowest one?) - can't build them, of course.

And no - simply because you know how to avoid something as trivial as beacon # limits doesn't mean it isn't broken.

Your problem is having played too long and assuming total knowledge = "that's balanced". At no point should loosing a single item (limited to 3 without trading) cause the game to be unwinnable apart from colonists. This is a game about colonists, not about "saving your precious beacon". If you can't see that this is a massive design flaw, then don't reply.

Major case of the blinkers there chap. :rolleyes:

You just don't understand what aim the game and the mod. The game also aim to be a roguelike and the mod aim to to do it in a harder way. It's not simcity, you really don't get the type of gameplay here. but well, if you don't get it i don't care, at last you read the whole stuff. Just try to not forget  that of course if you do 3 mistake in a row you will loose at some point.

[Cat123]

You just don't understand what aim the game and the mod. The game also aim to be a roguelike and the mod aim to to do it in a harder way. It's not simcity, you really don't get the type of gameplay here. but well, if you don't get it i don't care, at last you read the whole stuff. Just try to not forget  that of course if you do 3 mistake in a row you will loose at some point.

I understand completely; I'm not exactly a stranger to roguealikes. However, there is no other item that functions like this, apart from colonists - the initial x3 tools might count, but loosing those only requires perhaps 20min restart. It's a simple and needed change - beacon should be on the antenna tech level / metalworks table. It's not rocket science, nor does it take a genius to work out the game balance. But thanks for grasping at "L2P NOOB" justifications for it.

I suspect that if you start the mod without crafting 7+ you'll likely be shafted as well; although this is mentioned in the readme.txt so that's fine.

2 year old colony, perfect in most other respects (level 20 researcher, wee), survived a load of events: discarded due to beacon issues. Not fun.


>Off to edit the XML & rebalance this so that it's a tier lower & built at the electronics table.

[Oragepoilu]

I suspect that if you start the mod without crafting 7+ you'll likely be shafted as well; although this is mentioned in the readme.txt so that's fine.

Actually you can do a lot with only 4 at crafting. 3 is the medium range, so if you grind a bit by using only one, you could go up to 4 in crafting and access to the whole trading system; And from here you can buy stuff and build it without much craft involved.
However starting without at last 3 will heavily block you, because a LOT of crafting useful need 3 and you will be forced to grind with a lot of metal your xp while you don't have even a nice light/door.

[Goo Poni]

I'm aware of the conditionals to trading, and the mechanics. (Gee, helpful forum).

This is the insanity at the moment:



Can't trade, can't buy beacon, game is totally broken. At the very least, land based traders should have an inbuilt beacon within X tiles of their tent.

I see no trade beacon in this screenshot and have you tried interacting with the building as you would an oil pump, water barrel, beacon or any item that can be interacted with?

If you're stubborn enough to leave unused beacons laying around on the floor only for them to be destroyed by mortar fire because that's not how the game should be played, then we can't help you. If moving your resources to a safe place is not how we should play, then stockpiles shouldn't be a thing.

You start a colony with 3 unused beacons. You need just one to trade with locals (orbital beacon), two to trade with ships (beacon and console) and three to call a ship on demand (beacon, console, signal beacon). If all three have been destroyed or otherwise taken out of the equation and you want the later stuff, restart the colony, reload to an earlier save, spawn a beacon with the dev console, edit the files and make it buildable with one potato at a crafting table or just deal with it.

I cannot comprehend how you managed to lose all three.  Mortar fire takes a couple hits to destroy a gun or some berries on the floor and anything built by your colonists would surely be repaired. I've never seen more than 3 mortars built by a siege team at once.

[ToXeye]

When loading the mods on startup, do the patches load in alphabetical order? In that case, I would have to disable the mods and reenable them each time I start the game. Am I right?