[1.3.0] Hospitality

[Orion]

Yeah, I'm sure you might find some people who wouldn't mind. But I also think I'd be able to find the same amount of people who would turn it down, exploit it, and then complain that it's possible 

You can make this setting available only in dev or god mode, then these people won't have a right to complain

Last I'll say of it, I promise. But we can cheat pretty much anything else we want in the game, and tailor anything to our satisfaction, plus it's already in the options but with a limit, so why this arbitrary restriction? That's rhetorical, because I know you've said why already

Apart from the mods you choose, and the difficulty settings, what you can tailor won't break the balance or feel like cheating. Unless you actually go and cheat. So there has to be that line.
I could make it possible in dev mode only, but then I'd have a feature that noone will understand who doesn't know exactly how it works.

[Kori]

I'm really sorry Orion, but I agree that the option for the minimum group size would be very nice.... 

[Harry_Dicks]

Oh no, look what I've gone and started! I.. I'm so sorry Orion...

Apart from the mods you choose, and the difficulty settings, what you can tailor won't break the balance or feel like cheating. Unless you actually go and cheat. So there has to be that line.

I completely agree, but this is also something that is entirely subjective. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but it's like you've decided for the player what is an isn't acceptable, ya know? While also teasing them with what they could have, but you put an artificial restriction on it.



AWW MAN I HOPE THIS WORKS!

[Kori]

Looking at Clutter Furniture, he does have a new independent texture for each bed. Well, most of them it at least looked like from quickly browsing over it.

I think beds normally only have one texture, can't remember.

Oh no, that's why mrofa uses a different thingClass, to support this mod's RandomBedTex feature. No more random Hello Kitty beds when the thingClass is set to Building_Bed.
Great, I knew I should wait if I have more questions for Orion before saying that I agree that there should be this minimum group size setting.

Well.. Orion? 
Is it possible to support beds with a different thingClass or should I walk over to mrofa's thread and ask if he can change it in the clutter dll instead?

[Harry_Dicks]

Kori you could also take this into your own hands, and just make Clutter's beds into their own defs per the bedspread you want to use.

Not saying that to shut you down, but just know that's another option

[Kori]

That's what I already did, thanks!
Having the choice between the textures instead of randomness is a good thing, too.

[Orion]

I don't think mrofa can fix this on his side, unless he actually uses the core bed class. But that's not something one can expect.
There's no easy fix for this. I'd have to make a patch specifically for his mod. And tbh I'm not really in the mood to spend my spare time fixing anything these days.

[Canute]

I don't think a min/max group size at the options would be a good thing.
That easyly could be exploided.
Since this mod give the ability to recruit visitors you are geting more good canditates if you set the min. very high.

But a pre-start define about the visitor group size modifier could be useful, if people don't like large visitor groups.
But i think then the calculation about the faction gain/loose should be adjusted too.
I think currently it is a fixed number depend how well satisfied your guest are.
That should be modified that the amout of guests take into account.
Less guest less faction gain, many guests more faction gain.
Not to speak about the gifts these guests left when they leave.

[Orion]

Yeah actually if the group is set to be smaller that makes it easier as well. It's easier to please 2 guests than 8, and 2 will cause less bad will than 8 as well.
You can already change the max to a degree, but it's limited so it can't be exploited.

[Kori]

Can we please just drop the reason that some setting in a mod allows people to "exploit"?

Orion it is your mod, you can do whatever you want with it.
Just please stop talking about exploits, that makes zero sense and is ridiculous. This whole mod is an exploit compared to vanilla gameplay.

[Orion]

There are four people asking for it because apparently it's currently the fashionable thing for people to ask about. Once the stars realign or someone suggests something else, that'll be all the rage.
Also I'm only counting two, you being one of them.

If you don't find my arguments valid or you don't understand them, then it's your right to disagree. But don't tell me what arguments I'm allowed to base my decisions on.

I'm done with this discussion.

[Harry_Dicks]

I don't think any feelings are meant to be hurt, we're all friendly here.

I will not say that Kori or I speak for anyone else but ourselves, but to say that we're the only ones who would want that option because we are the only ones to post about it isn't right. I would go as far as to say that there's probably a hundred others that will feel the same way about a lot of opinions that are posted here, whether they post it or not. The replies:views on these threads is evidence of that.

Anyway, it's nothing personal, Orion. It's that I highly disagree with your reasoning, for exactly the reason Kori said. I can see now how adamant you are about keeping this limitation as it is, which of course is your decision to make.

I'll move on, and still continue to be a cheerleader for your work, but I won't lie and say that I'm not disappointed with your decision and the reasoning that lead you to it.

Hope everyone has a great rest of the day

[Orion]

I don't think you can take the amount of views as evidence for anything. This thread has been active for 3 years already (alpha 9!) and this is a the first time this is coming up. Obviously that's not evidence for anything either since it's only been one version since you can actually change the maximum amount of guests at all. And I'd really wish people wouldn't make me regret adding new features like that every time. I've learned that whatever I change will cause a noticeable amount of people to dislike it or be upset.

Thanks for trying to keep it light, though.

[Harry_Dicks]

I don't think you can take the amount of views as evidence for anything. This thread has been active for 3 years already (alpha 9!) and this is a the first time this is coming up. Obviously that's not evidence for anything either since it's only been one version since you can actually change the maximum amount of guests at all.

You're right. I think I just worded what I meant to say poorly, as I was on mobile and getting ready to walk into an interview (things went great, keeping my fingers crossed!). What I meant was: I think that a lot more people may feel this way, even if they don't post about it. It's just usually your biggest fans like us that are on here a lot, so we end up being the ones that usually start these new requests & ideas

And I'd really wish people wouldn't make me regret adding new features like that every time. I've learned that whatever I change will cause a noticeable amount of people to dislike it or be upset.

I think I can speak for most everyone here, that isn't anyone's intent. We love new features and updates (I do at least), so I really hope this won't affect your future implementations.

I want to also say that I can completely understand your reasoning, behind not wanting to upset anyone with any changes such as the one we have proposed. However, if a player purposefully goes into any of their options or settings, and changes something that then makes the game "too easy" or ruins it for themselves, then I think that's on them. Especially if you have a warning or something, saying the "recommended amount" in all caps or maybe you require the player to click a check box first, acknowledging that they are taking the mod options past the recommended settings and could possibly remove the challenge.

I feel like if a player ignores these warnings, ruins the challenge for themselves, and then goes and complains about a mod maker's options that they have in their mod that allows them the ability to make things too easy for themselves, well I'm sorry but that person is a dumbass. Not only are being silly, but now they are actually ruining other player's potential new fun (like mine) because I've got to now not only try to overcome your objections, but also whatever bullshit those dummies have done too.

Meh, with your line of reasoning, it makes me think it comes down to this: dumb people ruining things for everyone else. Since they now have something new to possibly complain about, then it's going to ruin the fun for everyone else that could have enjoyed these new options, and liked your mods even more.

Not saying anyone's voice matters more than anyone else's, but I would suggest you don't give a damn about what those people say

[Orion]

I don't think it's so easy to draw the line between "dumb people" and "non dumb people", but I get what you're saying.

I do like the idea of having some sort of safety toggle. Maybe I can use that.

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