Alpha 13 - New events are gonna be hilarious

[Listen1]

Well, in the vanilla game yes... I don't remember if in the vanilla visitors leave something (silver, food) if they are happy with the hospitality.

If you modded, the visitors can be talked to, recruited and some other interactions. Don't know if you can make the "hotel" yet, somewhere you make for them to eat and sleep.

[RoboticManiac]

So can I have this update now-ish? What if I said please?

[JimmyAgnt007]

Currently vanilla visitors dont leave anything unless they die.

[keylocke]

woot! finally relationships. woohoo!

does it come with sexy times? can couples finally use the royal beds at the same time?
will it come with jealousies and rivalries and threesomes? lel.

also, to those comparing this to the sims. you probably haven't been playing the sims correctly.

sims is about inviting people you hate over to a party and then creatively arranging for them some "accidents" to collect their gravestones to summon their ghosts and then impregnating every single woman with your love seed while becoming friends with death and letting him join your rock band to play the bass.

lel.

it's a sandbox, just like GTA or any other sandbox. your limitations are based on your own creativity to enjoy the tools that the devs give you. the more tools and options you have, the better. this allows you to play the game exactly however you like it.

-----

as for me. relationships in rimworld (does this come with the option to spawn children?) would just mean that i'm going for a long game. long enough to actually see the children grow into adulthood.

oh yea, i'm going for a hundred year playthrough once kids are introduced to rimworld.

[skullywag]

Multiple pawns to a bed is confirmed.

[RickyMartini]

Yes the jokes are hilarious, and as you have said will never happen in game... the reality of the limits of the game...  So who is the dense one?

Nobody I guess, since discussing possibilities is nothing else than poor guessing after all.

[Tynan]

Oh my, I hadn't even thought of the cannibalism/clothing issues with relationships. "This hat was my sister you monster!"

Imagine if clothing made from human leather listed the name(s) of the "donors" in the item description...

My god, this idea is so twisted I never even thought of it! Sadly, it'd be really fiddly to execute but it would definitely be amusing... for that (hopefully-tiny) group of players who would ever see it.

As for the gay trait, I hesitate to even respond to this discussion, but I'll just say that this aspect (like many in RW) is largely modeled on the way Crusader Kings 2 handles homosexuality. As in, it's just sort of there. I suppose the CK2 devs have a very consistent historical context to lean on (and deflect criticism towards) but I never heard anyone complaining about it. Anyway, there's no activist intent behind this feature; it took like an hour to implement. It's just a trait like any other that inverts the "how attracted am I towards person X" function with respect to gender.

Speaking generally...

I've actually thought about the sociology of RW and as soon as pregnancy and children are in, there's just massive potential for potentially uncomfortable situations. I think people aren't really bothered by cannibalism because it's so distant. But with relationships and reproduction, the game very quickly seems to want to model human miscarriages, fetal alcohol syndrome, abortions, gay hatred, gender hatreds, domestic violence, etc etc.

Ordinarily I would just do all of this of this since it is good design to use easy-to-implement features that create personal dramas. But... damn. It gets real heavy real fast.

Even as it is right now, with no new features, I just realized while writing this that domestic violence is already in the game! Characters with low opinions of each other can get in fights. Lovers or spouses can have low opinions. So... yeah.

And as soon as pregnancy is added, it'll use the same code as animal pregnancy, which necessarily (in order to be logical and create drama) models miscarriage due to bad luck, starvation or injury. Well, that can happen to humans too. It can also be a method of abortion: have a colonist you don't want pregnant? Just starve her for two weeks, problem solved. This is basically already in the game (it already works for animals).

There will be other rather dark incentives. You already have an incentive to say, let old refugees die. Once children are in, if you want the colony to expand via child-rearing, you might have an incentive to exclude gays from the community because their relationships don't produce biological children and you want to optimize your food-to-children ratio. And so on, and so on.

I don't want to Playskool-ize the game, I just have to shake my head and laugh darkly at some of the stuff that pops out of it so easily and naturally, often without even developer intent, but with such heavy implications.

I think it says something about how the logic of life knits together. Once you put in the basic rules, all the interest and joy and ugliness spring forth automatically. That emergence is an amazing source of power and the basis of RW's design - but it's also a bit scary sometimes!

Finally, while this isn't the goal of the design, it naturally provides some interesting food for thought about ethics, morality, survival, and how they relate. It's funny to laugh about cannibalizing your 80-year-old crippled colonist during a bad winter, but maybe it also says something about our real-life morality and why it differs from that of our ancestors, who lived in much harder environments than we do.

Anyway, I find it interesting to think about. And yet again the power of emergence amazes me.

[jzero]

Wow. Just think bout what started  this thread. The opinion that bug-fueled gay prison breaks were going to be funny. But it resulted in one guy getting temp-banned twice, twice!. Then a few pages of cannibal conversations with an argument in there somewhere involving animal armies. And now Tynan posted. Funny how threads go all over the place isn't it 

[falcongrey]

Finally, while this isn't the goal of the design, it naturally provides some interesting food for thought about ethics, morality, survival, and how they relate. It's funny to laugh about cannibalizing your 80-year-old crippled colonist during a bad winter, but maybe it also says something about our real-life morality and why it differs from that of our ancestors, who lived in much harder environments than we do.

Anyway, I find it interesting to think about. And yet again the power of emergence amazes me.

I think while most people find ways to point fingers for action X,Y, or Z... especially for things in the ancient past, they forget to look at all the factors that lead up to that or those actions. RW, as you put it Tynan, has a unique way of bringing this to the surface without any intent. It simply is there lurking and only needs the right conditions to bring them out just like real life does. It's the reason I love playing RW and have not grown tired of it at all.

Looking forward to A13 release with a little hesitation. More of real life possibilities have been added.

Edit: Just a little after thought on my above message. RW has a unique way of modeling life. Life has a law that most people don't want to believe exists.

The law is this: If the conditions for life to happen exist, life will happen.

That being said, this game has many of the 'possibilities' there, in the game. When the conditions are right; as odd, silly, dark, morbid, sick, or twisted as things become those same 'possibilities' exist in real life.  Granted we aren't going to see a hive of single minded giant insects invading a prison that kick off a riot that turns into a jail break lead by two gay brothers who happen to be also married... but perhaps instead of the giant insects it ends up being caused by poor conditions leading to an infestation of biting insects that finally make these two brothers say enough is enough with the poor treatment, bad conditions, starvation conditions, and so on. As I said, if the conditions are right, life will happen even if it sounds silly or funny in the contrast of a game.  Just think about it a little.

Amazing job Tynan. Even though most of us know it was never intended. Still, amazing.

[RickyMartini]

[.....]

So basically, domestic abuse and abortion confirmed. Nice!

Wow. Just think bout what started  this thread. The opinion that bug-fueled gay prison breaks were going to be funny. But it resulted in one guy getting temp-banned twice, twice!. Then a few pages of cannibal conversations with an argument in there somewhere involving animal armies. And now Tynan posted. Funny how threads go all over the place isn't it 

Also, just think about how strange all of this would sound if we forgot that we were talking about a game.. 

[Bob_Namg]

As for the gay trait, I hesitate to even respond to this discussion, but I'll just say that this aspect (like many in RW) is largely modeled on the way Crusader Kings 2 handles homosexuality. As in, it's just sort of there. I suppose the CK2 devs have a very consistent historical context to lean on (and deflect criticism towards) but I never heard anyone complaining about it.

As long as humans rely on sexual reproduction genetically there will always be homosexuality due to the phenotype necessities for such, thus it's excusable in any simulation realistic and otherwise that it would be a thing that would occur. I don't really want to elaborate on why since this is a company forum and I don't want to be that guy.

Anyhow Tynan if someone castigates you for adding salad tossers, or if someone castigates you for not being 'progressive enough', ignore them. It's your game mate don't let idiots sway you (if it ever comes to the point where you actually give in to minority demand).

Also have a video for enduring my shitpost
https://youtu.be/msPej22MP7o

[mumblemumble]

Tynans post reminds me why i love him as a dev. I just hope the community is mature enough to endure upcoming topics that i know will be modded in : namely rape,  stds,  incest, and more 

[A Friend]

Tynans post reminds me why i love him as a dev. I just hope the community is mature enough to endure upcoming topics that i know will be modded in : namely rape,  stds,  incest, and more

I... I kind of doubt that, man...
What's probably more likely is someone requesting it and then earning uncomfortable replies or weird looks.

Edit:
But thinking about it, could be something that could add alot in the game, traumatic experiences for pawns, being disliked by the entire colony, drama, etc. That is if done correctly.

Dunno, quite an uncomfortable topic to discuss outside of game mechanics.

[Bob_Namg]

Tynans post reminds me why i love him as a dev. I just hope the community is mature enough to endure upcoming topics that i know will be modded in : namely rape,  stds,  incest, and more

We already have a Hot Coffee-esque mod where dudes hump mechanoids
If the community were going to be hooligans they'd have done it already

[mumblemumble]

Well incest would be extremely rare to begin with,  obviously,  but rape i could see as a mental break outcome, slim chance of attempt in a early relationship with those whom are psychotic,  or even something used by waring factions to hurt the enemy.

Also yes, im fully aware these subjects are controversial and uncomfortable, but i feel it would most definitely add to drama... And what better way to make you absolutely vilify an enemy faction than if one of your colonists was assaulted,  and it caused issues for the entire colony because of it?  I imagine it could stir up extremely powerful emotions. Even if it was just a kidnapped colonists returned,  beaten and broken, barely able to walk,  in a mess of a mental state,  and everyone scrambling to care for them,  that alone could be huge and cause many reactions.

But again,  these might just stay as mods. I know tynan is brave on many topics,  but i don't know how many cans of worms he wants to bother opening.

But regardless,  rimworld to me has always been a bit of a humanity simulator in a sense,  seeing how people live,  get along,  function,  and seeing how difficult,  uncomfortable, and outright painful things are delt with is a main feature in my mind. In that way,  its very much an "adult"  game -  not in that its obscene, lewd, or gorey,  but because you deal with very real, not particularly comfortable situations semi regularly, and sometimes there simply isn't a good outcome. But you still press on,  and do your damn best,  perhaps questioning decisions after,  but continuing till the end anyway. And this is why i think these features would be fantastic,  is to enhance THAT element...

Though... Really even these topics are limited by the fact people are static personality wise. It would be AMAZING if people had personal growth,  with stats changing over time through specific events (surviving nasty battles giving a fast runner trait, excessive exposure to violence giving psychosis, ect)  or even having traits phase in / out with mood. I could particularly see people getting depressive traits for a certain period of time with it,  which would be very VERY interesting for character development,  as well as giving a much deeper connection to pawns.

Are these things uncomfortable? Yes. Grim? Yes. Triggering? Yes. 

Adding to emotional impact / storytelling possibilities? Absolutely.

Though,  just my opinion i guess, and I'm fully aware many will disagree JUST because its extremely uncomfortable to discuss.