So when is Tynan returning?

Started by RoboticManiac, December 21, 2015, 10:53:39 PM

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RickyMartini

Well said falcongrey. Here, have a cookie!  8)


TLHeart

Yes Tynan stated that in his mind he has met all the goals he started out to meet... but those goals on the greenlight are not specific, but very general, so of course he can claim he has met the goals he set. And once a person has reached the goals they have set, they start looking else where for new goals...

A 6 month break, means he is looking for something new, and he can afford it with the income he has generated from rimworld over the past 3 years.

Just looking at Mantis, there are over 50 bugs that have been resolved, that I would LOVE to see an update to the public of... but no we have to wait until the KING Tynan is back... Which means he can't let go of his pet project. He has stated it is very hard to hire people he trusts...

So for me, strike one claiming the game is done...when in reality it is far from a finished game. Better than most alphas, but not a polished complete version 1.0. Factions are far from finished. Bugs with the added rushed animals.

strike two, taking a 6 month break... very difficult to get back to work on a project after that long, with the passion and intensity required to move it forward. The code is getting more complex, and harder to isolate bugs. And changes have more unintended results. There is NOTHING tricky about testing, although Tynan thinks there is.

Strike three; no definitive return date. He had a definitive leave date... Just general 6 months, early next year (stated in his blog post) What is early?

I play rimworld, exclusively modded now, as the vanilla game is severely lacking content.

Indie games have a very bad track record... and Tynan has went down that same track, with the 6 month break... And his inability to let his pet project grow without him.


porcupine

For anybody who argues that Rimworld is "finished", I urge you to go play Prison Architect (yes, it's on Steam if you've never heard of it before).

Same art style/artists, similar overall game style, I believe it's the same engine, and the same price bracket, etc.

Compare the two side by side, polish, complexity, etc., and honestly, try to argue that Rimworld is on the same level.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying Rimworld is not a fantastic game, with a lot of *potential* (a word we keep seeing used here), but the reason everybody keeps saying *potential* is because it has not been fully realized in any regard.  The polish level, development level, and commitment level between the two projects are night and day.


JonoRig

Whilst that's sort of fair to compare the two as they are both management of a sort and carry similar looks (i believe it was stated tynan borrowed their style with their blessing as he wasn't an artist himself, and the player base liked it he decided not to change the style)

It's not fair in the sense that ludeon studios is really just tynan, and in the last year or so, ison, with one or two people helping out (plus the rather awesome composer for the soundtrack) and is its first commercial game, where as PA is Introversion software's 6th game release, and they have a bigger team.

Do *I* feel its "complete"? Well that's not a fair question, because I could list you a million and one things I would "love" to see in this game, heck, since I backed on kickstarter, I have suggested loads, some even with some positive feedback from tynan, even if he chose not to take inspiration from my ideas, after all, I know for a fact I was not the first to suggest some, and that's ok :) so of course I feel *more* could be done, but I don't feel it fair to say it *should* be done.

As Ty has said many times before, he is not beholden to us on any level beyond good will. Do I think that means he should get a lofty status and we be thankful for any little thing prouduced, no, but we as consumers have got what we paid for, and time and again, here, and in any other early access "pay for what it is now, not what it could be".

I for one would prefer tynan leave it as it is with his creative merit intact, than to give in to all the loudest whiners here and, eventually, on steam that this game needs this, this game needs that, and it just collapses in on its self under useless features from an unenthused dev.

My personal preference would be that Ty releases as he wants it released, update it when he likes, but hires a sort of "guardian" or group of smaller devs or committed modders to keep adding.

As the terminology used from another EA that I use to be active in the forums for, ksp, the game may not be "scope complete", as in all features desired, and more, are in, at the very least, as placeholder, but not "feature complete" meaning it has some more fleshing out to do, and bug fixing and balancing.

We are coming to the end of the dev cycle, where we will have diminished returns, less new  visible features, and more tweaks and fixes.

I personally applaud ty on what he has achieved as his first official indie game, especially seeing how far it came from the kickstarter, and I backed that immediately, at the get my own character In the game tier, based solely on how much I wanted that pre-alpha right then and there. No regrets, loving every minute.

We will see ty again, in full gear, not to mention, he's not disappeared, he still posts on the forum, and he is still doing some work. And if anything, this 6 months of player time is good for seeing what needs fixing, balancing and adding more than the 2week/1 month approach where the turn around times on changes were so short you couldn't see the full force of what each change did to the game as a whole.

Anyway, just my opinion, I look forward to the updates to this game, and future ludeon projects

falcongrey

#49
Well stated JonoRig.

While you can't argue against a person's emotions, arguing against an apple compared to an orange has merit.  While I love Prison Architect, it is a larger team from a more experienced development company.

If you want the details:
Game was announced October 2011 and crowd funded on September 25, 2012 with updates scheduled every three to four weeks, officially released October 6, 2015. I suspect that in 2011 it started development. The Game was developed by British video game studio Introversion Software with a team of initially 3. The game was developed under the fear of they were ACTUALLY going to jail for trading insolventy. For those not knowing what that is, it is where you trade stock for your company while having the knowledge your company was NOT going to survive. http://www.pcgamer.com/prison-architect-how-introversion-avoided-jail-by-embracing-their-hardest-project-yet/ If you want to read about that last statement. Under this fear, they came up with this game to make a last ditch effort to pay the bills and to avoid getting sued and put in jail for illegal trading. Tynan isn't under any kind of fear to develop Rimworld. Rimworld is his baby, his child. Tynan is making this game not to keep himself out of prison, but out of his love of the idea and dream of what this game will be when development is completed.

That being said, Prison Architect has 1 extra year of development time under the blankets and three times the initial development team.  There was a lot of incentive initially to release a game and gain FAST cash to avoid real prison. Once it was a hit, they slowed down and hired more help to make the game even better. I remember the INITIAL Prison Architect as I was with it from early Alpha release. It was extremely basic and not very entertaining after a short period of game play repeat playability was low in the fact that the only differences was the way you built the prison. You could actually build it the same way every time and the game would turn out the same every time. Yes NOW it is a remarkable game. But then, they grossed over $4,031,925 (£2,679,730) in early 2013, not even a YEAR after Alpha release and by the end of 2013 over $9,000,000 (yes over 9 million US Dollars). This is now 2016, if in under 1 year they made $9 million through Steam release, imagine how much they made now. Tynan hasn't made anywhere NEAR that much yet, but then, unlike Introversion Software he hasn't released to Steam in Alpha yet because he wants to release THERE in a finished, polish state better than where it is now. Rimworld doesn't get the publicity that Prison Architect gets by any means. Rimworld's publicity is merely WORD OF MOUTH.

Now, that is a FAIR comparison of Prison Architect to Rimworld. Not so similar in developmental situations now is it. This game is far better than expected, for more complete than expected, and Tynan is far more patient with US than expected considering the comparisons. 

It is most certainly NOT finished in Tynan's mind. It is only finished in that he said he met all the goals from the initial crowd funding. This is why he took his time off. He has spent over 2 years, non-stop (no vacations / holidays off) developing this game. When we hit June, I will say he has spent 3 years. For a solo developer building a game of this complexity for his FIRST release, this game is amazing. I can only imagine what his next release will be like years from now after he pulls in money from a Steam release, hires a team to work on the next release, then spends another 2 or 3 years with a team putting the next game together. Can he afford to take time off finally now that he has met his legal requirements of the Kickstarter promises? Yes, and it is his right and prerogative. If you take the accumulated time off that he has not 'used' from the on-start of this project, 6 months off is no longer very long but about right. Three months is a LOT of time off for someone in the United States, as we are only use to getting at most a week or two off a year of PAID vacations... but in other countries, Three months is a lot but not unheard of per year though the average is over 1 month (30 days) of paid vacation. Google this if you want to see that I have already done the research and numbers.

Tynan earned this time off over the last two and a half years, he needs this time off, and has already proven he isn't simply sipping sweet tea on some sunny beach laughing at us for funding his paradise. He is still actively working in the background on Rimworld, just not as actively as he was doing earlier. He has another doing the active part and checking in with Tynan to make sure it is on track and what Tynan wants done. So you may say he is on partial vacation, just not keeping as alive in the forums as he normally is, developing this game still for us. Something he doesn't have to do while taking time off but wants to do.

If you want to verify all I have stated, Google it. You will find a lot out there in the Wiki alone on Prison Architect including the numbers. I gave you ONE of many sources. The rest, you can do the leg work on as I did unless you are afraid to find it and to extend a little earned trust to Tynan.

Grey
It matters not if we win or fail. It's that we stood and faced it.

RickyMartini

Thanks for the clarification falcon.

Justin C

I honestly don't understand all of the Steam rage. Gamers should be used to waiting years for an anticipated game to be released.

vagineer1

Quote from: Justin C on January 07, 2016, 09:08:50 PM
I honestly don't understand all of the Steam rage. Gamers should be used to waiting years for an anticipated game to be released.

Just like me with Dark Cloud 3. I've been waiting years for it to be finally announced and released, I can wait a little while longer for the next update.
You see this tank?

This tank is the epitome of "I'm going to destroy you"


This tank can make Chuck norris cry.

All hail the Takemikazuchi.

Noobshock

For a game of this complexity as someone said and as well made as it already is, it would really be a shame if the endgame/endless game wasn't given enough attention.

All I care about is that the final product kicks as much ass as it possibly can. Waiting is honestly no big deal.

Sergeant Cynical

Quote from: Noobshock on January 08, 2016, 08:59:40 PM
For a game of this complexity as someone said and as well made as it already is, it would really be a shame if the endgame/endless game wasn't given enough attention.

All I care about is that the final product kicks as much ass as it possibly can. Waiting is honestly no big deal.

I second this statement.

palandus

I keep reading how the game is "finished" when the things promised on the Kickstarter HAVE NOT been met. Scroll down to the "proposed modules section (via this link = https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tynansylvester/rimworld/description)

1) Beliefs and Religion; Not added yet
2) Archaelogy; Not added yet (what is there is extremely bare bones if you can even call it that)
3) Historical Characters; Not added yet
4) Relationships; Not added yet (I looked through the XMLs and it claims that people have relationships, but have run large games and never saw it happen once)
5) Moddability; A LOT of useful code is still hardcoded and inaccessible (ie controlling how raids work precisely or controlling the XP given by every kind of activity or being able to make your own skills, etc)

How can Tynan say it is basically finished when major components suggested in the Kickstarter Campaign haven't been completed yet? Also, a game doesn't go from Alpha to Finished Product; When will the beta be?

I'm not trying to incite things here, but it really aggravates me that people keeping saying its done, when features suggested in the campaign haven't been completed yet and would GREATLY add to the game if they were added. Thoughts?


A Friend

Relationships are gonna be part of A13 when Tynan gets back.
http://ludeon.com/blog/

Which is pretty hype-generating.
"For you, the day Randy graced your colony with a game-ending raid was the most memorable part of your game. But for Cassandra, it was Tuesday"

Squiggly lines you call drawings aka "My Deviantart page"

RickyMartini

Quote from: palandus on January 09, 2016, 02:13:17 AM
I keep reading how the game is "finished" when the things promised on the Kickstarter HAVE NOT been met. Scroll down to the "proposed modules section (via this link = https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tynansylvester/rimworld/description)

1) Beliefs and Religion; Not added yet
2) Archaelogy; Not added yet (what is there is extremely bare bones if you can even call it that)
3) Historical Characters; Not added yet
4) Relationships; Not added yet (I looked through the XMLs and it claims that people have relationships, but have run large games and never saw it happen once)
5) Moddability; A LOT of useful code is still hardcoded and inaccessible (ie controlling how raids work precisely or controlling the XP given by every kind of activity or being able to make your own skills, etc)

How can Tynan say it is basically finished when major components suggested in the Kickstarter Campaign haven't been completed yet? Also, a game doesn't go from Alpha to Finished Product; When will the beta be?

I'm not trying to incite things here, but it really aggravates me that people keeping saying its done, when features suggested in the campaign haven't been completed yet and would GREATLY add to the game if they were added. Thoughts?

Because those were suggestions. Tynan clarified this again and again and again. The suggestions were made years ago and were not just completely changed an reshaped, Tynan also very obviously implemented other things into the game that were never promised.

In terms of the scale of the game and the direction Tynan wanted it to go, the game has what it promised.

palandus

Could you point me to where he clarified this, as I never recall him making a blog post concerning this, nor an update video either, and as I've tried to be diligent and keep up with these, I was quite surprised when he announced several months ago that it was "finished"... as if that idea came out of the blue, when it doesn't feel finished.

Yes, you are right they are suggestions, but often if a feature is listed in a Kickstarter campaign, you expect it to be part of the finished game. Look at other kickstarters where they offered a possible feature for their game and failed to deliver on it. People were justifiably angry about it. Take Elite Dangerous. They, during their kickstarter said it would have an offline mode, but the game is online only (unless they patched it; haven't follow ED in a while so not sure on that). Or take Godus's Multiplayer mode; it still aint there. All I'm trying to say is that if you are going to post a feature on a kickstarter, and then decide later on to NOT do it, an official statement somewhere that is extremely visible is needed... not some random post on the forums here where you have to dig to find it.

So, could you refer me to the posts where he changed his mind on these features?

RickyMartini

#59
It's a good question. The only videos he ever did were the Kickstarter videos and then the gameplay videos for the new Alphas.
I can only point you to the last time Tynan commented on this:

Quote from: Tynan on September 28, 2015, 11:54:56 AM
However Piotr is working fulltime on the game [.....]. If he works all the way through, the next release may have quite a bit of new stuff in it indeed. Possibly 2x or more the usual man hours in an alpha (though much of it may be non-obvious refactoring work.)

[.....] Moreover the game has more content than was ever promised. The marketing page doesn't even mention animal taming/training at all. So I'm comfortable with what we're offering now.

If you wade through his older posts you'll find more. But the general opinion that he holds is that, whether the suggestions on the KS were met, he met many other goals that he never promised. The game got as "big" as it was marketed in the Kickstarter.
And don't forget that we are currently talking about Alpha 12, whereas Alpha 13 is going to be a BIG update if Tynan is not exaggerating. We don't know what the next update will exactly bring. We also don't know how much work Tynan will put into the game after it is released on Steam this summer.

I agree that it's hard to even follow this because there are no "general" update videos so people can stay up to date.