[1.4] Call of Cthulhu - Rim of Madness Expansion Pack (10/21/2022)

[Canute]

Werwolfs are pretty stable with v.1.17.0.2.
Works very well even when some errors pop up with simplesidearms.
https://gist.github.com/bd2bdf27200b860e170a1d50951920d3

[Benis]

Jecrell, with the addition of werewolves, I have to wonder if you've thought about vampires (beyond star vampires, anyway). With night and day cycles, body part-specific wounds and a blood loss system in the base game, they could be implemented really well.
Here are a few ideas for mechanics I had in the shower:

-Vampirism Contraction
Initial introduction could be a scripted event, one that will occur sometime in the first X amount of time like the monolith/tree spawn, though it'd have to be at least a season or two in so as not to completely incapacitate a pawn while you're still shorthanded or even solo (and unable to feed a vampire).
-Vampirism Conversion
Pawn is badly fevered and will take several days to succumb. A) Dedicated treatment and constant bedrest will fully cure a pawn, so as not to force people into a vampire. B) You installed the mod, you deal with vampires. Medical treatment and bedrest will allow them to survive long enough to convert. Otherwise, death.
-Newborn Vampires
Upon completion of the disease, the pawn will recover fully, receive significant boosts to speed/durability/base strength and go berserk pursuing the nearest warm human body to feed upon. The first feeding will suck the victim dry, so plan ahead and have a prisoner on hand or lose either a colonist or your new vampire.
-Vampire State
In exchange for boosted bodily ability across the board and no want of traditional food, your vampire must drink every X (2-3?) amount of days or suffer progressive burns in sunlight and, if starved enough, go berserk for blood (probably a colonist's). Hunger bar is replaced by a thirst bar.
-Caring For and Feeding Your New Vampire
You can order your vampire to drink from a prisoner, or a sleeping colonist. This will inflict minor neck wounds and blood loss. When young vampires feed, there is a % chance risk they get carried away and kill their victim. The farther a vampire progresses, the more control they have (when not starving). An elder vampire never unintentionally kills his victim. There could be a second option (maybe even under the surgical menu) to mix blood while drinking to inflict the victim with vampirism (random infection chance on feeding sounds like a headache).
-Vampire Progression
The longer a vampire survives and feeds, the stronger it gets. Perhaps unlocks some sort of seduction/compulsion abilities or temporary heightened transformation. Stronger, but also thirstier. An elder vampire might take three feedings to fill its thirst bar. The cost of such powerful undead is a large and well-maintained prison.
-Misc
Vampire hunter faction, crossbows, count/countess clothing, Victorian-themed items, vampires set on fire burn more rapidly than regular pawns.

I think this could be quite balanced in having to support a bigger bloodbank the more fearsome your vampire becomes, including putting down the inevitable breakout attempts. A real madman could even go for a fully vampiric colony presiding over the mother of all jailhouses.

[Dragoon]

-snip-

I can only say that sunlight should not affect them. No not sparklespires, there was a cool book called the vampire hunter's handbook. They are not affected by sunlight, garlic does nothing to them, a cross is a shiny stake. They of course can see themselves in a mirror. How else do they make themselves look good?

I own the book if you need any more info. I think it would be a better choice, for vampires then the whole garlic hating, church fearing, killed by sunlight ones. It won't be what everyone is expecting, and would make sense that vampires grew out of hand. The book says vampires created these legends, as "weakness" spending time to make people that think it works. So that people would do them, and believe it would protect them. Dead pawns tell no tales right? So the "survivors" are really just making people weaker, allowing for easier killings. It fits more into the lore of rim world. Obviously, how you go about this is going to be interesting. Should you decide to add them.

I would also just say that 2-3 days for feeding is not really a fair thing. I feel like when you are getting tons of raiders, or you are getting trade ships with, some slaves you might be okay, but there is no reason they can't drink a dead man's blood. and adding in any percent, for them to kill one of your pawns sucks. I get there needs to be a danger, and I like the whole newborn, bloodlust thing. But imagine, if you get even 5 pawns, and one gets vampirism. You might not only lose a pawn, at the start but also, lose another while feeding. If RNG is giving you the business something that it has done to all of us, it is not going to seem fair. Perhaps, if that stays in and even if it gets taken pawns can make blood bags? That reduces the danger and makes the chance of getting vampirism, non-existant. The only problem is how to go about it? I suggest if it gets done, that there is minor blood loss, but how it gets treated, is up to the player. The recipe should not take any medicine.

[Canute]

There exist so many books about that many different kind of vampires, but only one similarity exist within all these vampire myth/storys.
They need blood to survive.
But even these feature is different, while some story say only humanblood, while other say any kind of blood.

I think if jecrell decide to create a vampire race/trait he will create his own version ! :-)

[Lennbolt7]

Jecrell, with the addition of werewolves, I have to wonder if you've thought about vampires

If you look at his patreon post from july 3rd,(Rim Of Madness- Detailed Progress Update) you will see that he's doing werewolves, vampires, and monster hunters. I don't know if they'll be made in that order.

[Canute]

A suggestion to the werwolfs,
a transformation require alot of energy. When they transform back to a human they should loose 50% of the max. hungry so they may need to eat.

[Benis]

-snip-

I can only say that sunlight should not affect them. No not sparklespires, there was a cool book called the vampire hunter's handbook. They are not affected by sunlight, garlic does nothing to them, a cross is a shiny stake. They of course can see themselves in a mirror. How else do they make themselves look good?

It's cool to try to make everything scifi these days, come up with some hidden science behind what has traditionally been fanciful. This book sounds like that. And I'm not against that, really any interpretation is fine by me, but I also enjoy traditional weaknesses for flavor. I specifically suggested weakness to sunlight when blood-starved as it's the least fanciful and someone could come up with a plausibly logical reason for it if they bothered put in the time to fluff it out.
It's also a good balancing mechanism...

I would also just say that 2-3 days for feeding is not really a fair thing. ... but there is no reason they can't drink a dead man's blood. and adding in any percent, for them to kill one of your pawns sucks.

...which you seem to want to throw out all three of. Jecrell's special pawns (force-users, werewolves) tend to be pretty OP, and it's only fair for an elder vampire to be a little OP. So you need to strike a balance and expend significant resources/design to maintain this pawn who is worth several pawns in combat, may possess unique powers and who is quite difficult to kill. Maybe you wouldn't need all the hurdles I've suggested, but at the very least needing to maintain a bloodbank (and preferably prisoners so as not to inflict minor wounds/blood loss on your own colonists) is a good balancing move.
And you definitely should not be able to feed them from a dead man's blood, aka turn feeding your OP pawn into a complete non-issue. Human corpses come in extreme surplus past the first season or so. And for a proponent of vampire lore, drinking blood from anything more than a few moments dead goes against the vast majority of interpretations. The concept of parasitizing the *living* is a crucial component of vampires. To say nothing of how hard it'd be to extract still, congealed blood. Vampires typically drink what the heart pumps to them.

If you look at his patreon post from july 3rd,(Rim Of Madness- Detailed Progress Update) you will see that he's doing werewolves, vampires, and monster hunters. I don't know if they'll be made in that order.

I'm pretty sure I noticed this once and just forgot about it. Oh well, great to (re)learn that he already has plans for it anyway. I'm sure whatever system he creates will be lovely, he's got a solid track record in that.

[Orpheus]

In Bram Stoker's Dracula (which was based on Slavic mythology, but was the one of the first appearances of the vampire in the 'pop culture' of the time), sunlight isn't actually harmful to vampires.  It reduces or negates all their supernatural abilities, and this might plausibly cause them to develop an intense fear of daylight (a reasonable reaction for a lone predator which has suddenly lost every single advantage over its vastly-more-numerous prey), but the Count is quite willing and able to go about his business in full daylight when required.

Crosses and other paraphernalia wouldn't necessarily affect them - again, they might well have a phobia of religious symbols if they believe themselves to be cursed or unholy, but if you give such items an actual physical effect you are somewhat supporting the notion that the power behind the symbol (ie, God) is literally real.  Which would open a massive can of hungry Rimworms.  In-game, I'd suggest at most that they'd get a heavy situational mood debuff in the presence of holy symbols.  Garlic falls into the same category - it's thought to repel vampires, because it does repel many other blood-drinking organisms, but there's no sensible mechanism for it to actually physically harm them (unless you take the Brian Lumley approach, where vampirism results from the presence of an alien symbiote inside the vampire's body, in which case said organism could perhaps be vulnerable to garlic, silver, UV light or whatever else you like).

I'm not a fan of the idea that vampires have to intentionally infect their spawn by deliberately mixing blood.  Vampirism is either a biological disease or a spiritual/magical curse - either way, if it can spread, its spread should not be controlled by the host.  Traditionally a vampire's bite carries a high possibility of infection (whether pathogenic or spiritual), following one of two patterns.  Either the victim becomes a vampire if they die while still under the 'parent' vampire's influence (what this actually means is pretty vague, but they don't change if they can stay alive), or they inevitably become a vampire unless they die first.

The idea that they have no reflection might, more realistically, reflect their unwillingness to see their own reflection, since it might remind them of their lost humanity.

Oh, and don't feed on dead people.  Dead blood is toxic.  This isn't down to bacteria or viruses to which a vampire could possibly be immune - it's a simple chemical overdose, resulting from the massive release of potassium from dying cells into the bloodstream.  If a vampire's digestive and nervous systems are anything like a humans', this will still be dangerous and possibly even fatal.  If they're susceptible to ordinary diseases (which is not certain), they shouldn't really feed on most animals either.

They should probably steer clear of drug addicts, too...

[DrKaine]

They should probably steer clear of drug addicts, too...

"Hi, my name is Vlad, and I'm addicted to alcoholics."
"Hi, Vlad."

[Dragoon]

I specifically suggested weakness to sunlight when blood-starved as it's the least fanciful and someone could come up with a plausibly logical reason for it if they bothered put in the time to fluff it out.
It's also a good balancing mechanism...

Well first off it's ALL sci-fi second off. It's not really a hidden science. A hidden science would be how can cyclopes have depth perception and even be a threat. Like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyPM5dhaPH0.
What the book IS saying is that those are myths, of course, different origins of vampires are going to have different lore weaknesses. It's as simple as having different worlds in which these creatures belong.

Also, it is not a good balance, as it negates them for a good half of the game, and they are actually harmed by it, making dumb pawns doing dumb stuff die. As unless eclipses are very common they are going to be stuck inside, wasting resources. Unless they can move very fast and do a lot of damage they aren't going to be balanced or even remotely worth the resources. Which by the way if they are able to do those things, then they would be op anyway with not being able to go into the sun being circumvented, by simply building roofs with a ton of open area. You might have to spend only a little bit to do so. And your vamp that can be op will have zero problems. And if you say "well see you just found a way to use them with sunlight" then the point of them being op will still remain.

And you definitely should not be able to feed them from a dead man's blood, aka turn feeding your OP pawn into a complete non-issue. Human corpses come in extreme surplus past the first season or so. And for a proponent of vampire lore, drinking blood from anything more than a few moments dead goes against the vast majority of interpretations. The concept of parasitizing the *living* is a crucial component of vampires. To say nothing of how hard it'd be to extract still, congealed blood. Vampires typically drink what the heart pumps to them.

First, that only applies if you have a single vampire, if you have a colony of vampires, they will blow through those bodies fast.

Second, Vampires would most likely be immune to these diseases. For real have any of us ever heard of a vampire getting a cold or being able to get any diseases? They are supposed to be able to be stabbed in the lungs, have their organ ripped out, and still be okay and able to fight. In fact in both of your suggestions. They would be just as weak. Feeding on a dead body should be okay, as they are not just human anymore, the fact that they can only drink blood is proof that their systems are not like a normal human. They are supernatural creatures, they could have a way to drain a corpse of all the blood making it only useable once, and the amount of blood left would be affected by how many limbs are left as well. That way they would still have to feed every 2-3 days, And unless you are getting huge raids. You could still very easily run out of bodies. I have had games where I can go weeks to a season or without a raid. and the previous raid only has 3-4 people in it. Leaving me with not much.

If you want them not be able to drink a dead man's, blood (even though there is no disease that normal dead man's blood as that could ever kill or harm them) fine. But then blood packs are a must, and I even suggested a blood pack, that your colonist makes from themselves, is a much better choice, then having your vampire feed on prisoners, and hoping they don't infect them as well.

I want to point out that the Jedis lightsabers are what makes them op. Unless you pour all your points into kill or storm, and them Jedi reserve they run out of it very quickly. And you most likely will be op on very small groups.  The werewolf change is strong, but that berserk at the full moon has killed a few of my colonist, the guys break downs tell doors like it's nothing. And you have to do it to level them up. and if you don't level them up they are going to be quite vulnerable. I have had my werewolf get killed many times by a medium raid party, they just gunned him down before he could close the distance.

In Bram Stoker's Dracula (which was based on Slavic mythology, but was the one of the first appearances of the vampire in the 'pop culture' of the time), sunlight isn't actually harmful to vampires.  It reduces or negates all their supernatural abilities, and this might plausibly cause them to develop an intense fear of daylight (a reasonable reaction for a lone predator which has suddenly lost every single advantage over its vastly-more-numerous prey), but the Count is quite willing and able to go about his business in full daylight when required.

THIS. This is a good way to balance it, during the day All their powers including their regeneration, are disabled during the day, but at night they are strong. So they are just like your pawns and during the night, they are stronger. This leaves it up to the raid to happen during the night for them to come into play effectively.

[Apposl]

The booming laugh of something terrible coming and then invisible star vampires made my freaking night last night, mod creator. Amazing. Thank you.

[Benis]

(first response)

You're neglecting the 'blood-starved' bit. In my example, with feedings only inflicting a minor wound and bloodloss (a  forgettable debuff in most cases, especially on prisoners), your goal would be a prison with enough well-tended pawns to keep your vampire(s) fed. You'd only be needing to hide your vamps during the day if things went tits-up and you lost access to your blood farm (even then, you could have them feed on a colonist in a pinch; the reason you wouldn't do this all the time is the constant minor wounds).

(second response)

I never suggested vampires might get diseases from drinking dead blood, I said it goes against their traditional themes and that unmoving, congealed blood would be extremely hard to extract in any quantity.
Blood packs are a lot more feasible than dead blood, since they contain anticoagulants. The blood within is still physically drinkable. I'm still biased towards hot blood. Maybe a mood debuff for blood packs :^)

(Orpheus response)

This is also good, though I'm still a fan of the concept of being rewarded for keeping your vampire well-fed by being allowed to exploit their abilities in broad daylight.

[Dragoon]

-snip-

That does not feel balanced it's just annoying. To have to constantly fix up prisoners, and colonists. And you can still get infections from minor wounds if they are not treated in time, not fun to have people being bedridden. you are repeating yourself about the goal I never said anything against the prisoners as a farm or that it was a bad idea. The problem lies in taking prisoners and not having them get infected, or randomly killed. And my main point was if there is a percentage to die or get infected, then you could end up having multiple deaths and or multiple vamps just pop up on you. Which is the main problem. As it can very easily overwhelm you, you can't do anything about it and you might have a nice amount of prisoners. And if you say, if they get infected just kill them, we are still losing a prisoner. Maybe even one we wanted to recruit. The colony would also get the debuff prisoner killed.

I never suggested vampires might get diseases from drinking dead blood.
I'm still biased towards hot blood. Maybe a mood debuff for blood packs :^)

The first one was not to you but to Orpheus. He suggested they might be vulnerable to disease.
The second I disagree with. Unless they had the bloodlust trait they would not care. It adds in a good way to tie in bloodlust. I suggest the opposite, they should get a buff from feeding on a "fresh" meal. And no debuff from blood packs. Like how you have simples meals and fine meals. Eating a simple meal gives them no bonus, pretty much just "hey it's not crap, and I am not starving", but eating a fine meal adds a happy feeling to them " Hey it's pretty good! and I am not starving".

This is also good, though I'm still a fan of the concept of being rewarded for keeping your vampire well-fed by being allowed to exploit their abilities in broad daylight.

I can't say I am for or against that. I would be fine with or without it. However, I don't like them being hurt in or by sunlight nor going berserk and just draining a colonist, as if that's the danger then we don't need any other downsides for keeping them fed.

We could find a middle ground in that, if they are not well fed they won't have access to their abilities. Resorting to being as weak as a normal pawn. They can still starve to death, but if they don't get enough blood the most likely thing is the same as if you or I were to be starving. They would be to weak, to do anything.

[Benis]

One little thing I noticed is arachnid meat being default greenlit for meals, unlike vanilla insect meat which is disabled. Not a big issue, but it might take you a while to notice that -3 moodlet for eating cooked insect meat and where it came from.

Also petitioning for an increase to the lifespans of crows and those adorable little rabbit spiders. A tarantula may only live a year or two, but it seems reasonable to tack a few more on there for something genetically engineered, especially with the big ones living for 20. Wikipedia lists crows averaging 7-8 years in the wild and upwards of 30 in captivity, so 6 seems unfair. Especially for creepy omen crows. Those live longer, right?
The training difficulties are so high and haul rates so low that it's not even worth training either of these, I just want cute little spooky animals running around my base without having to watch all my hard work die of old age in a few months.

[jecrell]

<snip>
I just want cute little spooky animals running around my base without having to watch all my hard work die of old age in a few months.

Well then~~

Arachnophobia Update

8/28/17
V1.17.1.13
-The smaller spiders can now live for a whopping 10 years!
-French translation fixed.

Lovecraft Storyteller Update

8/28/17
V1.17.2.3
-Crows can now live for an astonishing 60 years! Perhaps they will even outlive their masters?