[1.0] Children and Pregnancy - v0.5b (2019/Feb/25)

Started by Thirite, December 27, 2016, 09:06:22 PM

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Thirite

Absolutely what PixelBitZombie says.

That said, it's strange that two ~17yo pawns have a romance chance of 0%. Pawns over 16 should be perfectly able to form 'adult' romances without restrictions. I might have to take a look at the code in vanilla and see what is up. I would be fine with younger pawns forming childhood crushes, as I remember myself the first time I started noticing girls was around 10yo. That's just the reality of puberty, even if you don't understand why you're interested girls/boys until years later.

Soupy Delicious

Let's not get all excited and righteous, Pixel.  This is something related to Thirites mod because it adds in children, and early teens (haven't played Rimworld long enough to see anyone beneath 15 , so could be wrong about that last one), and it's pretty clear that me and that other dude were not picketing this mod page for the addition perverted things.

I wanted to put the idea in your head, Thirite.  This is the place of change, not some dead-end suggestions thread ;P.  I just want believable rimchildren and teens, not law-abiding robots.

PixelBitZombie

Quote from: Soupy Delicious on July 16, 2017, 10:38:22 PM
Let's not get all excited and righteous, Pixel.  This is something related to Thirites mod because it adds in children, and early teens.

Nothing like that, Thirite, stated in a formal yet understanding statement he had no intentions of adding such things. Yes, it does add children and teens, that is what this mod is. Children and Pregnancy, nothing more nothing less. It's a way to add colonists to your colony, add immersion and a sense of realism that a few like myself found missing in the Vanilla game.

Of course maybe I'm speaking far too much for Thirite, but I feel like I'm pretty on point.



QuoteThis is the place of change, not some dead-end suggestions thread.

Yes you're right. This is a place for change, however, what some of you want added is not Thirites intentions.
"When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her head"


Tenshi~Akari

(I'm regretting even having posted what I did if it was going to bring about the morality topic that kinda was addressed a few months prior. Forgive me for that, never my intention, I just thought wanted to be sure that there wasn't any crazy mod conflicts that I was supposed to be aware of w/ some of the mods I had...)  :'(

Question on sounds: how often is the baby cry supposed to play? I've come around to times where the sounds would play through sometime in the beginning of gameplay, but after a while, the cries cease to happen, even with the unhappy baby thing going on... (sometimes I don't realize it's happening until the game screams at me that a "Colonist needs to be rescued" when it's the kid trying to jump out the bed...)  :o


Thirite

Bit of a progress update:
- All hard detours have been removed and successfully converted to Harmony patches. Big thanks to Brrainz(Pardeike), Erdelf, and Why_is_that for all the useful info about complex transpiler use.
- The crib is nearly done; it is properly restricted to children and younger. However, there seems to be a vanilla bug where pawns will not check if they can actually use the bed before lying down specifically for medical reasons. Will have to fix until it gets fixed in the future.
- Contraceptive has been changed to require simply 1 herbal medicine rather than 1 neutroamine for balancing, as it is not supposed to be difficult to produce.

In v0.3:
- Breastfeeding will be properly integrated with the feeding job, resolving problems people were experiencing with doctors and viable women all rushing to feed a baby at once.
- Babies will no longer get downed when waking up to whine and cry, but will use a proper job to keep them awake while still being in bed.
- If a child fires a weapon too large for them to handle, it will result in them dropping it, with possible injuries.

Dragoon

You said all hard detours are removed? Does that mean it will work with other mods easier?
Quote from: faltonico
I truly can't understand that sense of balancing a LOT of modders have, pouring more resources on something doesn't make it more difficult, but more annoying. It is not engaging, even if i'm swimming in silver at late game ¿why to bother?, why all the effort to get there?.

Thirite

Absolutely. It may take a bit of fiddling to make it cleanly work with Alien Races Framework, but now it will actually be possible (without a huge amount of compatch overhead work every single revision of either mod).

SpaceDorf

Maxim 1   : Pillage, then burn
Maxim 37 : There is no overkill. There is only open fire and reload.
Rule 34 of Rimworld :There is a mod for that.
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LiteEmUp

replying just to bookmark this mod...

im hoping this kind of similar feature gets added to vanilla game... its weird that animals/pets gets pregnant and have kids, while humans can't??? are humans in rimworld universe grown out of vats or testtubes???

Thirite

Canonically, yes, there are vatgrown humans in RimWorld lore. But they're not all supposed to be. I'm not sure exactly why Tynan has decided not to implement children, as the vanilla game data has unused age stages for babies, toddlers, and children- that even scale the pawn's speed, weight, strength, health etc. with no extra effort on my part. All I've done is basically add new graphics, a custom human pregnancy, and injected a bit of new code so babies/toddlers didn't operate like adults.

I suspect it might have something to do with the fact that you can already cannibalize people and wear clothes made from their skin; if that's the case then in my honest opinion it's a misguided decision. I think I've already proven in the unfinished state it's in, children add another layer of detail to the game which significantly expands the story-telling capabilities. It would be an incredible shame if Tynan decided to limit/censor the game in any way because someone might be offended.

There is this pervasive belief that videogames are somehow inherently a more puerile medium than books, movies, etc. and so have 'no right' to cover darker topics that might seem unsavory. Of course, this belief is simply a result of videogames being a newer medium than others. There's nothing inherently more "mature" about sitting in front of a TV watching something happen on it than there is sitting in front of a TV and interacting with something on it. Yet videogames receive an incredibly unfair treatment in regards to their content; how many times has Schindlers List been demonized for depicting the Nazis murdering jews? How many times has The Lord of the Flies been regarded as a "disgusting, problematic, and offensive" book? Yet depict nazis murdering jews in a game or children murdering each other and suddenly you're somehow just as evil as the Nazis themselves!

What a large number of people do not understand is that depiction is not equal to endorsement. Just because you can do something in a game does not mean you should, nor does it mean the developer encourages you to  do it; and it especially does not mean the developer encourages you to do it in real life. Thinking otherwise is simply foolishness in the same vein of misinformed belief as Jack Thompson or Anita Sarkeesian types.

Soupy Delicious


Rimrue

Quote from: Soupy Delicious on July 20, 2017, 01:14:50 AM
Babies are already in the game code?  Bwaah?!

That was basically my first thought, too! Lol

There must be some other reason Tynan is holding off on adding kids and babies, though, as the whole, "but you could eat them!/make them into hats!" reasoning doesn't make sense. Babies just don't appear out of thin air. They have parents AKA colonists. Colonists who will lose their minds if their child dies. Also babies are tiny. How much meat would they really produce? (I'm sure it's there in the stats, I've never had cause to check! Lol) And they take 3 seasons to be born, so far too long to actually make them worthwhile to try to "farm" (maybe a good reason NOT to reduce the length of pregnancies???) even if you had a dozen female colonists having babies. Which brings you right back to point one: Do you really want to risk your colony collapsing because the parents are losing their minds because you butchered babies???  :o

There's got to be another reason he's holding off on adding them. I'm more inclined to think it's the fact that kids take so long to grow up. But I still maintain that shouldn't matter. They add enough to the game even if they never reach adulthood to be worthwhile adding IMVHO.

Anyway, until such time as Tynan decides to add pregnancy and kids, I'm enjoying this mod very much. :)

koltonaugust

#702
I understand why Tynan might not want to add children to the game. Based off the last update it seems as though a lot more is planned for the game. Seeing this mod (which I love btw (never play without it (though I do wish it was available for auto update on steam as I am okay with starting new games when mod updates create conflict))), makes me realize that the balancing is not quite perfect with it. I would say the main reason for this is its reliance on the base game romance which is... well kind of random no matter what you do (mods help a little). I've had saves where no one is a couple, and one where there are 4 couples constantly pregnant (1-2 generally actually give birth due to miscarriages that I kind of let happen :/). Overall, I think it's something that will have to wait to settle before a true balance is achieved.

Also, how are babies calculated towards raid points or whatever? Because when I have a couple babies those raids are brutal. I generally just leave a baby's room open for sacrifice.

LaughingMan

Wow, this is everything I've felt was missing (most everything else is covered by other mods)!  I can't wait for the A17/Steam release so I can play it!

As for the Tynan question, I'd guess that he probably sees other aspects of the game as better/higher value places to focus his work on.  Working on this (especially if mods are going to take care of it anyway) is complex, doesn't appeal to everyone, and could bog him down for a while when he could be focusing on other, more straightforward issues and features.  I'm sure the morality concerns ("do I let colonists butcher kids?", "When should kids be able to start relationships?", etc.) also make this an issue he'd happily leave to modders for the time being, especially after that weird issue with RPS a while back.

LiteEmUp

its good that we have mods to fix some of the shortcomings of the game in the time being....

the bad side is that mods aren't perfect.. they fix one thing, and break another... and in this mod's case, you can't use alien species as a trade off in order to have kids in your colony.. so no to playable asari, jaffa, orissan, or even dwarves..

the only other option for those who still want playable alien races and have kids is using dev mode... i just discovered that option and I still don't know what it will do in game for me..