Belief System

[JimmyAgnt007]

Tynan mentioned wanting a belief system at some point down the line.  Still some things to take care of first but it would be kind of neat to talk about it now.

Different religions or philosophies would add some character to the colonists but it can also be a touchy subject.  We can keep things non-specific like monotheists or polytheists and avoid any bonuses specific to a particular way of life.  Last thing we need is to make people think one religion has an unfair advantage.  Mostly I think it should impact what they do for fun.  Attend a chapel?  Build a shrine in your room?  Sacrifice a boomrat on an altar?  Occult belief could be fun but supernatural stuff might be too far.

Just curious if this is something people would want to have or want to avoid.  I can see it going both ways.

Would there be any gameplay impact?  Divine intervention instead of cargo pods?  Violent outbursts between opposing colonists?

[JonoRig]

Personally, I prefer the original suggestion which was to do with the "void" God's, what with Ty saying wh40k is an inspiration to some extent, id love some Chaos gods (minus any copyright issues, obviously)

Also, as for religions, if your going poly and mono, don't forget atheists, and certainly no "divine interventions", But personal disagreements could of interesting. Tribes would be animists, maybe the more "civilised" individuals, such as glitter world people could be atheists. Medieval lords calling a crusade on you for believing that the sacred donuts should be green instead of red (red dwarf reference, as I dont remember the exact quote about the holy cat wars)

[SSS]

To be honest, I'm not looking forward to it.

Social systems are fine, but I wouldn't really care to have religion (or "non-religion") in the game. I think it limits storytelling freedom too much in comparison to the former, plus it is indeed a touchy subject.

Even Jono's suggestions with the stereotypes could cause offense.

[daft73]

....
Social systems are fine, but I wouldn't really care to have religion (or "non-religion") in the game. I think it limits storytelling freedom too much in comparison to the former, plus it is indeed a touchy subject....

I concur with this statement. While it adds, it also takes away. Could add variety, used in a storytelling sense, but the negatives may make it hard to implement.

Some are touchy about things, and as such in their games, and it just ends up being a flam-fest unfortunately. Maybe though Tynan could come up with a very fantasy/fiction based set of 'beliefs'.

[benben471]

I like the thought of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Cthulu or Cthuffulo, god of muffalo's to be silly beliefs that the game could use. then there would be no stepping of toes or offending religions.

[Kegereneku]

I would see religion as a neutral game-mechanic that you decide or not to make important the same way you have the choice to build the spaceship or not.

It's okay to me to have a token believer colonist might with a slight debuff if you don't cater their need, however it wouldn't change much except event in the same way psychically sensitive people react.

On the other hand, since Rimworld is a game where your construction's choices tread the story in a direction, building/crafting the structure/idol would amplify/create its effect, potentially leading to some end.

Aside : it would obviously be fictional religions.

[Johnny Masters]

To be honest, I'm not looking forward to it.

Social systems are fine, but I wouldn't really care to have religion (or "non-religion") in the game. I think it limits storytelling freedom too much in comparison to the former, plus it is indeed a touchy subject.

Even Jono's suggestions with the stereotypes could cause offense.

I couldnt agree more.

I think there's much to be gained by keeping it simple. There's a joy system coming so let it do its thing and make religion provide it.

"but my religion doesnt pray" "but mine need an altar" "but mine...". Well the game (and player) could easily regulate who can or cant do such or such religious activity or interact or dont with any religious building/station you might build.

I like complex systems but there's power in simplicity and abstraction as well

[Silvador]

No. Religion only makes a mess of things. One need only look at our own, real history to see the absolute shambles that religion has made of it, directly or indirectly.

Adding some form of belief or religion aspect to this game will only serve to needlessly weigh down a colonist's daily life and potentially create pointless irritations between other colonists or even tribes/raiders/whatever. I don't want to build a grand settlement just to have some random schmuck colonist join and ruin everything because his or her belief grates with everyone elses'.

[REMworlder]

Guys, void gods are awesome. Eldritch entities stirring in the unfathomable chaos of the immaterium answering to no one but themselves. Timeless, made incarnate by humanity's cauldron of emotions. Spanning incomprehensible dimensions invisible to our feeble minds.* Hell yeah! How else are we going to get cannibal cultists, crazy crusades, and bloody schisms?




^{*(I'm speaking of course of Randy Random and Cassandra Classic)}

[Johnny Masters]

No. Religion only makes a mess of things. One need only look at our own, real history to see the absolute shambles that religion has made of it, directly or indirectly.

Adding some form of belief or religion aspect to this game will only serve to needlessly weigh down a colonist's daily life and potentially create pointless irritations between other colonists or even tribes/raiders/whatever. I don't want to build a grand settlement just to have some random schmuck colonist join and ruin everything because his or her belief grates with everyone elses'.

Which, actually, does make for greater challenges and story making, at least gameplay-wise.

I actually wouldn't mind any kind of religious behaviors in-game, but since i know not everyone is as tolerating as i am i think a joy-based thing is a good compromise. Everything else, such as strife and other religion related events should, well, be events.

[Mathenaut]

Implementation would be finicky and easily offended types wouldn't make it any easier, for sure.

It would also sort of kill the immersion for some others who don't see the relevance. Would be easy enough to just roleplay something appropriate for your colonists.

Which, actually, does make for greater challenges and story making, at least gameplay-wise.

Or a few free organs, at least.

[JimmyAgnt007]

I'm all in favor of a more abstract system.  My OP was just to get the ball rolling more than anything else.  What about the trait 'Spiritual' and let the player decide what that really means.  Everyone else without the trait isnt too effected by it.  Then there can be 'Cultist' dealing with the void gods in some form.

[Kegereneku]

Myself I wouldn't imagine it any other way than a 'trait' or background.

I disagree that it wouldn't bring anything good to the game, after raider you could have cultist attacking you... or defending you, all the while being neutral, not forced down your throat.
In my mind the game-logic associated doesn't need to be complex, it would work the same than other trait and use already existing mechanic.

Though Experiment :
You have a spiritual 'trait', affected colonist react to event linked to it (like psychic) with a mood-buff/debuff.
Using craft/art you can decide to build specific idol... or not. It barely affect things.
Praying... is made a 'fun'-type activity, it doesn't require more code.
Faction could be religious, and abandoned temple appear on the map. Once we get a minimum of diplomacy between faction exchange like 'built X and we will like you' shouldn't be hard.
If you want nothing to do with religion... then a 'spiritual' afflicted colonist just can't pray, live with a debuff or go insane and get killed, cultist might crusade but they replace raider so nothing changed.
And in the end it still make a story.

Now of course what I wouldn't want is a spirituality bar to fill for everyone as if they all had to care, there would lie madness.

[Silvador]

Myself I wouldn't imagine it any other way than a 'trait' or background.

I disagree that it wouldn't bring anything good to the game, after raider you could have cultist attacking you... or defending you, all the while being neutral, not forced down your throat.
In my mind the game-logic associated doesn't need to be complex, it would work the same than other trait and use already existing mechanic.

Though Experiment :
You have a spiritual 'trait', affected colonist react to event linked to it (like psychic) with a mood-buff/debuff.
Using craft/art you can decide to build specific idol... or not. It barely affect things.
Praying... is made a 'fun'-type activity, it doesn't require more code.
Faction could be religious, and abandoned temple appear on the map. Once we get a minimum of diplomacy between faction exchange like 'built X and we will like you' shouldn't be hard.
If you want nothing to do with religion... then a 'spiritual' afflicted colonist just can't pray, live with a debuff or go insane and get killed, cultist might crusade but they replace raider so nothing changed.
And in the end it still make a story.

Now of course what I wouldn't want is a spirituality bar to fill for everyone as if they all had to care, there would lie madness.

This would be making Religion a hunger. A constant, nagging, driving force that will forever need feeding, just like sleep and, well... hunger. I neither need nor want another "need" that I must attend to in the daily life of my colonists amid building, harvesting, cooking and defending. Having to constantly worry about my colonist's spiritual needs is just another redundant mechanic piled on top of several already in place. Food, shelter and a good hiding place to shoot from is all a person should ever need. Adding Religion on top of that only serves to complicate things needlessly further. Temple? More crap to build. Pray? More crap to do. Different religious beliefs? More worries about if someone in my colony is going to get into fights with another person in my colony because of what they think.

Civilization games have religion and that is fine, because it is a wide spread aspect over an entire empire and has virtually no impact on the growth and production of an individual settlement. But such a mechanic on a level this small only serves to muddy the water, making things pointlessly difficult.

If you want religion, make a mod for it. Don't put it in the core game. Or at the very least, add in an option to exclude religion from your gameplay experience.

[kingtyris]

If religion were implemented, I'd like to see it
A) Tied to the 'fun' and 'mood' systems
and
B) Trait-based

So say, a pawn may be spawned with the 'devout monotheist' or 'casual polytheist' traits, and depended on how fervent they are they could take a simple mood debuff if they go too long without having a place to worship. Just add like 3 religions like monotheist, polytheist, and shamanist and you're set. Monotheists could have a podium with a holy book that they pray at, maybe polytheists have an altar where they burn offerings of raw meat, and shamans have an outdoor garden area to pray at. Recent prayers/offerings could give them a mood buff.

I think this way we could have a meaningful yet non-convoluted religion system.