[A17-18]Vanilla Animals Overhaul (more pack animals included) - updated 10/29/17

[faltonico]

I don't think it's AL. VAO only has pack animal fix, and it was not updated from introduction moment. It is too simple to be broken.

I had several reports like that one, and all of them were with Pawns Play Together.

Thanks for clearing that out!

[Simmin]

I don't think it's AL. VAO only has pack animal fix, and it was not updated from introduction moment. It is too simple to be broken.

I had several reports like that one, and all of them were with Pawns Play Together.

Ok but I tried with no other mods installed, only VAO so there is nothing messing with it, and i still cant train past level 1.

Esit :I disabled the VAO "Train" patch and it seems to have fixed it without causing any other problems.

[Oblitus]

I don't think it's AL. VAO only has pack animal fix, and it was not updated from introduction moment. It is too simple to be broken.

I had several reports like that one, and all of them were with Pawns Play Together.

Ok but i tried with no other mods installed, only VAO and i still cant train past level 1

It's VAO. Specifically, this:

Code Select Expand

<Operation Class="PatchOperationAdd"> <!-- Adding Fieldwork tag to Train -->
<xpath>/WorkGivers/WorkGiverDef[defName = "Train"]</xpath>
<value>
<tagToGive>Fieldwork</tagToGive>
</value>
</Operation>
It creates mutual lock: animal is busy guarding its trainer, so trainer can't train because animal is busy.

Workaround: set animal master to someone else or none.

[Simmin]

It's VAO. Specifically, this:

Code Select Expand

<Operation Class="PatchOperationAdd"> <!-- Adding Fieldwork tag to Train -->
<xpath>/WorkGivers/WorkGiverDef[defName = "Train"]</xpath>
<value>
<tagToGive>Fieldwork</tagToGive>
</value>
</Operation>
It creates mutual lock: animal is busy guarding its trainer, so trainer can't train because animal is busy.

Workaround: set animal master to someone else or none.
[/quote]
That's a very interesting situation, thank you for the explanation and temporary solution, could you think of a way that would prevent this from happening? (I know nothing about modding, just curious)

[Oblitus]

That's a very interesting situation, thank you for the explanation and temporary solution, could you think of a way that would prevent this from happening? (I know nothing about modding, just curious)

Remove this block or make a patch to change logic so it would correctly handle this situation. I'd recommend first.

[kaptain_kavern]

Thanks for clearing that Oblitus.

Indeed this as been reported on SteamWS comments. I will remove this entirely in next update. But yeah in the mean time you can still train them with someone else than the master (or remove the guy from being the master the time the level 1 training is done). I have never spotted this one myself because I always use several animal trainers

[Snafu_RW]

- Cats and big Cats are now trainable (up to advanced like dogs) but are harder to train than most other pets (wildness raised from 0.2 to 0.5 for the pet).

- All dogs are now set to be predator (but only for the smallest animals)

- Cassowaries, Emus, Iguanas, Ostriches, Tortoises, and Turkey can now lay unfertilized eggs

- Elephants can now eat trees and the female elephant will also drop tusks

- Caribous, Deers, Elks, Gazelles, Ibexes, and Rhinos will now drop horns/antlers/tusks when butchered. They are considered quite valuable for reselling and can be used as makeshift melee weapon

- Alpacas, Deers, and Ibexes can now be milked. Ibexes produce poor-quality wool now

Looks good, but a few comments for improvement:

   
• Dogs/wolves are pack animals naturally; that's how they (tend to) hunt in the wild. Would it be possible to add pack behaviour to bring down larger prey (perhaps using adjusted code from 'manhunter pack' event?) Dunno if this would affect wild animals tho..
• I don't think unfertilised reptiles (eg tortoise, iguana, snakes etc) lay eggs IRL; not sure.. likewise elephant tusks aren't discarded after full growth: they're the equivalent of fingernails*
• Milkable animals: the only milkable animals should have udders: I'm pretty sure deer don't; camel types (dromedary, alpaca, etc) do.. altho ISTR some eskimo tribes milking reindeer/caribou etc
• Horn/antler/tusk drops should allow improved /craftable/ materials for tribals, not weps specifically (they're extremely weighty & could only be used as a slow club anyway, similar to a basic wood chunk altho with maybe a little more dmg)
• Elephants can /kill/ trees, but won't eat the tree trunks (leaving similar trunk debris as fire dmg): they strip the leaves/twigs for food

*That's not quite accurate: rhino horn & similar are keratin-based (so fingernails); elephant (or whale) tusks aren't, but a similar principle applies. Either way tusks should be unusable/not valuable once discarded naturally due to degradation while on the animal if nothing else.. altho the tusks may be farmed from pets (a dangerous exercise: requires high handling, a bit of doctoring (3+?) + melee skill!)

[SpaceDorf]

@Snafu

while I agree with most of your suggestions, especially horn-recurve bows for tribals
your take on milkable animals is completely wrong.
Theoretically every mammal is milkable. As long as milk is taken from the mammary glands milk is produced.
It is actually the process of weening off that can cause infections of the mammary glands if not enough milk gets removed.*
( Lysa Tully or MadMax Fury Road for some outlandish examples )
It is true however that some animals produce more milk than others and are easier to milk.
Personally I would advise against milking a Tigress or Lioness .. .. Whale Milk on the other Hand should totally be a thing.

*this is also true for the male part of the species. They can show the most erratic and irritated behavior if not enough milky fluid is removed from the producing glands on a regular basis.

[Snafu_RW]

@Snafu

while I agree with most of your suggestions, especially horn-recurve bows for tribals

I wasn't thinking that advanced , but it can certainly develop that way (Mongol Horde etc..)

your take on milkable animals is completely wrong.
Theoretically every mammal is milkable. As long as milk is taken from the mammary glands milk is produced.
It is actually the process of weening off that can cause infections of the mammary glands if not enough milk gets removed.*

That's fairynuff, but for an unprepared starting colony of standard tech, milk should only be available from udders (unless tribal maybe?): the skill needed to milk udderless animals will be very difficult to research/produce (pig milk? Dog/wolf milk? cf DF ofc for multiple variations..)

*this is also true for the male part of the species. They can show the most erratic and irritated behavior if not enough milky fluid is removed from the producing glands on a regular basis.

Yuk yuk

[SpaceDorf]

Smooth Walls lets you engrave beer and cheese

But I admit I don't need more named animal based products .. the number of small stacks in my kitchen is big enough ..

on the other hand .. for a pound of alturian parmiggiano from 5512 you can buy half a city.
it's that special note between goat and boomalope milk seasoned with dried psychoid leaves that makes it so special.
Served with a 4999 bottle of dismarian ramsis red .. heaven I tell you.

[sirgzu]

I don't think it's AL. VAO only has pack animal fix, and it was not updated from introduction moment. It is too simple to be broken.

I had several reports like that one, and all of them were with Pawns Play Together.

Ok but i tried with no other mods installed, only VAO and i still cant train past level 1

It's VAO. Specifically, this:

Code Select Expand

<Operation Class="PatchOperationAdd"> <!-- Adding Fieldwork tag to Train -->
<xpath>/WorkGivers/WorkGiverDef[defName = "Train"]</xpath>
<value>
<tagToGive>Fieldwork</tagToGive>
</value>
</Operation>
It creates mutual lock: animal is busy guarding its trainer, so trainer can't train because animal is busy.

Workaround: set animal master to someone else or none.

I'm having a similar-ish bug (also reported on AL thread) but I have three trainers and only one animal has a master so it must be something different, also affects shearing and milking (but not taming). I'll test without Pawns Play Together and see if it help...

[kaptain_kavern]

If it's the bug from this mod, you just have to make the animal without masters until training is done.

I really have to make that update. Sorry for the inconvenience. I don't have so much free time lately...

[Oblitus]

If it's the bug from this mod, you just have to make the animal without masters until training is done.

I really have to make that update. Sorry for the inconvenience. I don't have so much free time lately...

It literally three minutes. One to fix that line, one to launch the game, one to upload an update.

[sirgzu]

Actually it was Pawns Play Together I think. The symptoms look similar enough but I had multiple trainers and pets didn't have masters. There was nothing useful in the log either.

[Dellamorte]

I mentioned a problem I was having in another thread (AL thread) as I thought the problem was due to the other mod. The problem I was having was I was unable to butcher animals that dropped horns/antlers/tusks added by VAO. After further investigation I found that it is a conflict with Cybernetic Storm, I should be able to provide logs if needed. From what I have read CS is getting a rather large update so this may be sorted when that happens.