[MOD] (Alpha 7) TechTreeMinami v3.3 RIMWORLD COMPLETE

[Oragepoilu]

Tiki torches can be used as cover, I think. *edit* will post this on the tiki torch mod *edit* I didn't find out which mod has the tiki torch in it

Tiki torch come with minami mod. And tiki can't be used as cover (but may get hit if they miss you like everything else)

[sidfu]

i dont use the tiki torches as i got tired of my haulers going back to the tiki torch years after its been sold and droping off wood for it lol. even thou they only do it once when the where the torch was is in middl eof a wall its kinda annoying.

[Dave-In-Texas]

Hey Minami

Can we please have 'Wall Refining' upgrade the conduit version as well?  or is there a reason to leave them out that i'm missing?

My guess is that it was done like that on purpose. Non-conduit walls are generally used for the outer walls for defense and conduit walls are interior walls usually that don't need to be as strong. Plus it makes a bit of sense for something that has a hollow conduit in it to be less strong than a solid wall with no hollow space.

While that is a possiblity, i'm not asking for parity.  the conduit walls are already weaker.. why not allow this improved technique improve their health too? after all, a wall is a wall, its not something exactly OP lol

[Oragepoilu]

Hey Minami

Can we please have 'Wall Refining' upgrade the conduit version as well?  or is there a reason to leave them out that i'm missing?

My guess is that it was done like that on purpose. Non-conduit walls are generally used for the outer walls for defense and conduit walls are interior walls usually that don't need to be as strong. Plus it makes a bit of sense for something that has a hollow conduit in it to be less strong than a solid wall with no hollow space.

While that is a possiblity, i'm not asking for parity.  the conduit walls are already weaker.. why not allow this improved technique improve their health too? after all, a wall is a wall, its not something exactly OP lol

Just to trow something that could help you, even if it won't change anything here, but you can make wall with conduit that have 2000hp by using panel reinforced wall with granit. And it even give 65 beauty. Embrasure go up to 900hp and door up to 800hp, witch is quite a lot actually.

Before we would have 3 upgrade but it was broken and allowed to have small basic stone wall on alpha 6 to have up to 2700hp (for only 6 stone ...)

[Cat123]

Gee golly, thank you so much guys for helping me fix and balance the mod, im taking notes and see to it that the next iteration will be not so broken.

And i have already made a stun gun. Its available to be made on the modern assembly I original/ttm worktable.

Can i ask for a changelog/patchnotes on the things that you changed with your copy Cat123? Ill be sure to learn some things from you

Also goo poni and oragepoilu thanks as always! and be nice

Nice mod, not sure how much of it is yours (all of it?). There's little things - like why have the master build list in different mods? TTS Mining has a table listing a parent mod's workstation build list. No doubt I'll work it out, but the structure seems odd at this time.

Sarcasm - less cool, but *shrug*, we can't all take criticism gracefully.

Suggestions:

Move Solar Panels parts, Battery packs and Beacons to Electronics Table & lower the tier

As it says on the tin - no way any of these should take a program module. Solar panels & batteries currently require you to kill / process mechs. Not so much potatoes, but should be mid tier, not highest tier.

Oil is currently far better than all other energy sources

A single oil refinery gives 4500w and can support 5 generators with x3 oil tanks each (6000w) easily. So, if you stretched it, you could easily have 12 generators with only 1 tank each (14,400w). Compared to geothermal (3600w) and solar (lol) there's no competition - not only that, it only requires mid tier building materials as compared to geo & solar which currently require program modules + advanced modifier.

This is a balance issue, and could do with looking at - or at the very least, geothermal should give 12kish.

Science Fiction Weapons currently do same / less damage than modern era weapons

Not sure if there's an excel table listing the various weapons, but a lot of the modern era weapons do more damage than the SF weapons. e.g. that Russian Sniper rifle (35+) vrs the Plasma burst sniper (12x2). There's also a bunch of references (Aliens, W40k etc) that aren't really useful - for one thing, if the mod is ever bundled into the main build, you can't have TM stuff in there (legally).

Updated AI = waste of resources

For the massive cost increase of an AI core (6k), you get +2 skills across the board, and that's it. Not worth it, by a long shot.

Food production at fireplaces is vastly OP

Compared to making basic meals (highest tier stuff required, elec hob) with 12+ cooking, the fireplace churns out at least 20 meals in the same time. I'm currently feeding a colony of 15 just with 1 fireplace.

The speed needs reducing or the # of materials (food) needs upping. There's no reason to have any other food production unless you want the +morale effects.


Bugs:

Black Void event - if it is an eclipse when it starts, no darkness occurs

Had fog and eclipse when it started, there was no visual darkness. Could be either of them.

Tested: it's the eclipse - when it ends, darkness is correctly applied.

Void beasties still spawn, colonists still have -7 morale penalty, the visual dark effect just doesn't trigger.



Still, mod is nice. 50% of the guns (and all those tables... no wonder I never found the stun gun, I wasn't going to build 6 tables all virtually the same) need pruning and the beacon stuff.

[Goo Poni]

Nice mod, not sure how much of it is yours (all of it?).

Some parts are Minami's own doing. I think all the custom events are Minami. Many of the submods are not Minami's though. Apparello, Project Armoury, MAI, Clutter Corp, A2B Conveyors, list goes on.

Science Fiction Weapons currently do same / less damage than modern era weapons

Not sure if there's an excel table listing the various weapons, but a lot of the modern era weapons do more damage than the SF weapons. e.g. that Russian Sniper rifle (35+) vrs the Plasma burst sniper (12x2). There's also a bunch of references (Aliens, W40k etc) that aren't really useful - for one thing, if the mod is ever bundled into the main build, you can't have TM stuff in there (legally).

I've personally gone and skimmed all the sci-fi weapons off. Some of the weapons are kinda silly (W40k bolters should be nigh controllable, ridiculously inaccurate weapons that hit like runaway freight trains) and I personally don't get all the references. Mass Effect, Starship Troopers, Turok, W40k, there's some more that I don't know.

Still, mod is nice. 50% of the guns (and all those tables... no wonder I never found the stun gun, I wasn't going to build 6 tables all virtually the same) need pruning and the beacon stuff.

Yeah, the gunsmith tables are a little irritating but otherwise the recipes would be going off the screen. As I said just above, I trimmed sci-fi and much of the other weapons, put them all on the initial table, jacked up the costs and made the weapons meaningfully different. A less accurate auto-shotgun or a more accurate pump-action shotgun. Fast firing, less accurate sniper rifles or slow firing, more accurate sniper rifles. A DMR for assault-rifle range, accurate single-shot uses or an assault rifle to put more bullets in the air. Faster firing semi-automatic pistol or a slower firing revolver. Balance is probably completely gone out the window at this point because I also dropped cooldown ticks to almost nothing (just 1 tick) and fiddled with aim times. The shotguns both shoot a burst of 8 with one tick between shots so they essentially fire a blast of shot instead. Made more sense in my mind than the weird mass of white that's supposed to emulate a shotgun blast. Noticed a raider with a Lupara was shooting two shots for every one trigger pull and found the reasoning in the Lupara's file. I haven't tried setting time between blasts to 0 ticks. Either it won't work and the game won't use the gun or it'll work marvelously and shotguns can really fire a spread of pellets instead of technically firing a ton of shots really quickly.

EDIT:
A quick test says that 0 time between bursts is totally fine and while more rapid, it doesn't stop the sound of a gun firing playing several times at once.

[Oragepoilu]

Nice mod, not sure how much of it is yours (all of it?). There's little things - like why have the master build list in different mods? TTS Mining has a table listing a parent mod's workstation build list. No doubt I'll work it out, but the structure seems odd at this time.

Basically Minamy made the tech tree with some stuff inside it and took time to include other mod.
That mean that you don't NEED to play all the mod here, you can just play minami, and include whatever mod you want - because he already patched them so they fit better in his mod.
keep in mind that he go this way because any mod maker could at any time change everything he want and/or leave his mod.

Move Solar Panels parts, Battery packs and Beacons to Electronics Table & lower the tier
As it says on the tin - no way any of these should take a program module. Solar panels & batteries currently require you to kill / process mechs. Not so much potatoes, but should be mid tier, not highest tier.

1)Stuff from minami won't go in a workbench of another mod because you should be able to play minami alone.
2)You have 2 tier for solar tech. the hight tier can be buy faster than you could craft it, but meanwhile you should use the low tier; Place the hight tier below would mean you will make low tech solar useless, so wwe would juste have to remove them ...
No matter how you look at it, either it will broke how the mod actually work (low tech hand made => trader hight tech => hight tech hand made), either you will remove the first hand-made tech. Witch reduce content and gameplay and difficulty and reward from being able to build better stuff. Bad.
3)There is also two tier of batteries. the second tier of batterie just need and advanced modifier, some metal and some potatoes. So you need to some trades before you could acces to a better batterie; it's fine. And no, it's doesn't need any program module to make a batterie.
4)beacons could be lowered to the metal work. that would mean that we could also remove the beacon/beacon antennae part and only stick with one item, because they are on the same tech tier if you do this.

Edit about the solar panel - hight tier solar panel give 600w during the night so if you have some place around they are quite nice to get a safe source of energy. Mainly that's why they are so much hight tech (you could do them early and focus on research to get the upgrade while you currently don't have much stuff)

A single oil refinery gives 4500w and can support 5 generators with x3 oil tanks each (6000w) easily. So, if you stretched it, you could easily have 12 generators with only 1 tank each (14,400w). Compared to geothermal (3600w) and solar (lol) there's no competition - not only that, it only requires mid tier building materials as compared to geo & solar which currently require program modules + advanced modifier.

This is a balance issue, and could do with looking at - or at the very least, geothermal should give 12kish.

i am actually using oil and i took some time to really loot at it before. The Oil refinery give 4200w. A generator give 1200.
A generator need about ~1oil/50s and an Oil refinery give around ~20oils/335s.
this mean, that you can keep up 2 generator all the time and a third generator from time to time.
With some conveyor you end with :
4200+ 1200*2-130(cost of conveyor) = 6470w    with the additional oil in another generator from time to time that you could stick to a battery (50% effectiveness) so something between 500-800w more what, maybe.

Geothermal as you stated only give 3600 - and may break because of a special event.
What i think is that the 4200w could be lowered so people would try to use the oil in some generator instead of selling it. Also add some gameplay in someway, witch is always nice.

Science Fiction Weapons currently do same / less damage than modern era weapons

Not sure if there's an excel table listing the various weapons, but a lot of the modern era weapons do more damage than the SF weapons. e.g. that Russian Sniper rifle (35+) vrs the Plasma burst sniper (12x2). There's also a bunch of references (Aliens, W40k etc) that aren't really useful - for one thing, if the mod is ever bundled into the main build, you can't have TM stuff in there (legally).

It's from another mod included in the pack - you should talk of this in the right topic.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=1950.0
Minami have no responsibility for the use of other mod and only help people using it by adding into his tech tree.

Updated AI = waste of resources
For the massive cost increase of an AI core (6k), you get +2 skills across the board, and that's it. Not worth it, by a long shot.

... what are you talking about ? The MAI ?
Again,
It's from another mod included in the pack - you should talk of this in the right topic.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3612.0
Minami have no responsibility for the use of other mod and only help people using it by adding into his tech tree.

And btw adding a AI core allow you to have a MAI that can do anything but talk, artistic, better learn factor and base level. You just need to build it AFTER you done all the research.

Food production at fireplaces is vastly OP
Compared to making basic meals (highest tier stuff required, elec hob) with 12+ cooking, the fireplace churns out at least 20 meals in the same time. I'm currently feeding a colony of 15 just with 1 fireplace.

The speed needs reducing or the # of materials (food) needs upping. There's no reason to have any other food production unless you want the +morale effects.

The whole food production is ... well, pretty much bad, and you can easily  see that minami try to do some new thing and add some stuff but didn't yet really done it. Mainly a placeholder ? Yeah, it could be redone and rebalanced.
but because food don't give anything but ... food & morale there isn't much point to take a lot of time to change this for now.
If it could change ... I don't know, chance to increase immunity/ increase heal over time/ increase max heal or something like this yeah food could have some utility and would be worth to take time to make something nice !

btw paste dispenser is the next step after this - just need to haul and you'r done. (+morale boost from research and very low cost on food)

Still, mod is nice. 50% of the guns (and all those tables... no wonder I never found the stun gun, I wasn't going to build 6 tables all virtually the same) need pruning and the beacon stuff.

Stun gun is with the workbench tagged ORIGINAL/TTM because it's from TTM (tech tree minamy)

[Cat123]

i am actually using oil and i took some time to really loot at it before. The Oil refinery give 4200w. A generator give 1200.
A generator need about ~1oil/50s and an Oil refinery give around ~20oils/335s.
this mean, that you can keep up 2 generator all the time and a third generator from time to time.

This is incorrect: I currently have 5 generators each with 3 storage tanks, 1 oil refinery and I'm gaining refined oil.

Refined oil.

So no, you need to look at your math again.

It's from another mod included in the pack - you should talk of this in the right topic.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=1950.0
Minami have no responsibility for the use of other mod and only help people using it by adding into his tech tree.

Ok, will do, thanks.

... what are you talking about ? The MAI ?
Again,
It's from another mod included in the pack - you should talk of this in the right topic.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3612.0
Minami have no responsibility for the use of other mod and only help people using it by adding into his tech tree.

Ok, will do.

And btw adding a AI core allow you to have a MAI that can do anything but talk, artistic, better learn factor and base level. You just need to build it AFTER you done all the research.

Yes, I'm talking about a fully upgraded / researched model. It's not worth the core, as at that point you will have 10+ experienced colonists anyhow.

The whole food production is ... well, pretty much bad, and you can easily  see that minami try to do some new thing and add some stuff but didn't yet really done it. Mainly a placeholder ? Yeah, it could be redone and rebalanced.
but because food don't give anything but ... food & morale there isn't much point to take a lot of time to change this for now.
If it could change ... I don't know, chance to increase immunity/ increase heal over time/ increase max heal or something like this yeah food could have some utility and would be worth to take time to make something nice !

There's a thought for a mod...

btw paste dispenser is the next step after this - just need to haul and you'r done. (+morale boost from research and very low cost on food)

I've never built one, I assumed it would be worse than cooking.

Stun gun is with the workbench tagged ORIGINAL/TTM because it's from TTM (tech tree minamy)

Ye, I understand that now.

TBH, if you really need to split them, split them into ballistic (bullets / shells / missiles), energy (lasers, tasers) and plasma (...fire / plasma) - neat, and the player will instantly understand which one to use as they unlock. But that's probably advice for another thread in another person's mod




Bug? You cannot make "compound paste" or buy it for recipes?

A couple of the rarer processes (upgrading the chef / doctor's hats) requires "compound paste". I can't make it, and I've never seen it for sale. Hmm?

[Shinzy]

A couple of the rarer processes (upgrading the chef / doctor's hats) requires "compound paste". I can't make it, and I've never seen it for sale. Hmm?

It should be very common with the tailor goods trader! but I don't know how often those fly by so The basic chef hats and science goggles are rarer to get a hold on in my experience

[Oragepoilu]

This is incorrect: I currently have 5 generators each with 3 storage tanks, 1 oil refinery and I'm gaining refined oil.

Refined oil.

So no, you need to look at your math again.

I am using the last version. I think you are doing the same. yes, we are talking about the refined oil, not the basic oil from the pump.
There is talk about math really because i could even screen my oil refinery -  witch ouput on conveyor leading on 4 generator, and only 2 of them is always working and a third work most of the time.
please, check you don't have any supply of oil/refined oil that your guys haul here. Also, could you check something for me ? When you select the oil refinery, look at the timer when it reset and report how many time he say (for me it's around 335s), and use this timer to check when the generator "eat" one refined oil (ex : it eat one oil at 274s and 224s, so every 50s)
Did you change some file also ? you written a bit before that you wanted to change to stuff my yourself.

it's weird - it shouldn't be different from an user to another.

I've never built one, I assumed it would be worse than cooking.

Actually you can have upgrade to decrease the cost in food per meal, delete the mood malus and give a mood bonus.
i have 9 citizens and ... nothing to grow food. I just butcher some animals that die into my entrance, because of my animal zapper. I also have a BUNCH of food around, because late game you will mostly eat survival food from raider anyway.

Yes, I'm talking about a fully upgraded / researched model. It's not worth the core, as at that point you will have 10+ experienced colonists anyhow.

Well yeah it's not that much worth it at this point (I almost only have full bionic colonist witch are way way way faster than the robot so i can understand) but it's more reliable than most people you will find (no mood, no food, more health, better level, witch make a lot of even really easy - and no fear for power atm)
Keep in mind that you loose experience after lv10 so having a burning passion instead of nothing/normal one can lead to a much bigger yield every time you do something. And because higher level mean faster, you will earn even more experience ...
Thoose are beast, unless you want to go full bionic (but the author of the MAI don't made his mod with the bionic mod in mind), you really want to use a few when you lack some sort of colonist specialized, or when you loose one. Well unless you savescum if it happen ^^ (game allow it so why not)

The core cost around 6k. Add the time you spend here + the basic cost and compare with bionic : full bionic cost around 20k silver (can be lowered by crafting) not counting time for operation incapacity & medic. (Well i know you don't need everything)
So yeah, maybe it's a bit too hight. Was mainly a placeholder because core are pointless but for the ship (...) as far as remember when i read the topic about this mod.
lowering too much the cost could lead to quickly only use them because of all the bonus the have for survivability/efficiency inside a base (but not for hauling) also itst he cost of an item included in the base game so not sure how it would turn.

you may want to replace the recipe in the bill to use something else that is included in minami mod - like program module (for the cost, at last, but you will find some and mostly always have enough of them)

[Xubrim]

Am I the only one that thinks an AI core is more than worth it for MAI? A physically deft colonist with a burning passion for all skills but one, with rank 7 starting? No negative traits, no need for food, and constantly happy with anything I do? That sounds fine to me.

While it's true that most people usually have 10 or more skilled colonists by that point, I really wouldn't care if most of them ate a bullet. Annoying traits, inability to do certain tasks, and a lack of passion for the skills they can makes the vast majority of colonists, frankly, expendable. With Mai I can cull the ones that leave something to be desired and get a very, very solid colonist on demand. If I had to complain about anything, it'd be that the unenhanced ones are so weak in comparison that they're hardly worth their precious mechanoid parts.



edit: Some suggestions for TTM, so I don't have to make another post.

Tasers are awesome, but very expensive. Cutting their cost to maybe 1/4 could prevent mass producing them for easy silver from trading, which seems pretty cheaty. They currently bring in ~600 silver each and practically free to produce.

Thanks for the local traders, btw. I think that fixes the beacon eating hypertornado problem nicely.

Would you be willing to tweak C.H.E.S.T.s to include Utility Metal and Wood Planks?

I love the missile launcher with a passion, but can't help but feel the missiles are simply way too cheap. A well placed missile can easily break a siege, so these are potent things. Maybe make them require uranium and silver, or simply 5-10x the resources they do now?

Also, two bugs, both with Mia.

The textures for a drafted MAI aren't included in your patch. Just copy/pasting them from the main Mai mod fixes it.

The random event, where a colonist gets kidnapped? Mia are set to explode when they are no longer capable of walking. This means that, if selected, the robot will explode with nothing the player can do to stop it.

[Grizzly]

Is it just me or Project Armory is missing in the .rar ?

[Oragepoilu]

@Xubrim

Am I the only one that thinks an AI core is more than worth it for MAI? A physically deft colonist with a burning passion for all skills but one, with rank 7 starting? No negative traits, no need for food, and constantly happy with anything I do? That sounds fine to me.

While it's true that most people usually have 10 or more skilled colonists by that point, I really wouldn't care if most of them ate a bullet. Annoying traits, inability to do certain tasks, and a lack of passion for the skills they can makes the vast majority of colonists, frankly, expendable. With Mai I can cull the ones that leave something to be desired and get a very, very solid colonist on demand. If I had to complain about anything, it'd be that the unenhanced ones are so weak in comparison that they're hardly worth their precious mechanoid parts.

I'll try to explain :
Burning passion help growing the skill faster, you earn more experience. It help a lot because you loose experience after lvl 10.
So, the more xp you earn in a skill the less the losing experience will hurt you.
HOWEVER, you have a limited amount of time each day and a limited amount of task. A lot of them end game is hauling - witch don't need a skill.
Bionic are far superior for the speeds movement and crafting speed, and the hit factor. Because of this, a trained colonist with burning passion on one skill will be faster to do it, so earn more experience in the same time, so do task even faster, so earn even and even more experience !
It's way more easy to get lvl 20 with a colonist than a MAI. And lvl 20 give some insane boost not only in the speed, but in the crafting too;
you may end with some crafting with up to 10 time the normal yield because you have a few step. MAI, with they normal speed, and starting lv7 (you already have colonist with better skill at this point) will need a lot of time before you could have the same thing - and during this time it will be less efficient.
At this point, you can afford bionic anyway so why don't get a colonist instead ?

I usually use a few MAI for the front line during fighting and for all around task (I do a lot of building/hauling/cleaning/mining now) without the need to set them equipment or anything else, i just replace them if they die.

I love the missile launcher with a passion, but can't help but feel the missiles are simply way too cheap. A well placed missile can easily break a siege, so these are potent things. Maybe make them require uranium and silver, or simply 5-10x the resources they do now?

Well yes missile kinda broke end game raider but anyway it help against the lag,and you won't have as much loot as you do by using turret if you need money. No matter the cost, you will be able to take down any raid so...
however mechanical can deal with a missile so you will need some turret if you want to kill them without trouble.
Instead of a hight cost i would like to see a hight reload time, at last. like a day or so, to not spam them but instead use them more wisely if you need it.

Also, two bugs, both with Mia.

The textures for a drafted MAI aren't included in your patch. Just copy/pasting them from the main Mai mod fixes it.

thx for the help here.

The random event, where a colonist gets kidnapped? Mia are set to explode when they are no longer capable of walking. This means that, if selected, the robot will explode with nothing the player can do to stop it.

You may want to talk about this with Haplo. Maybe he could get some idea to avoid this

Is it just me or Project Armory is missing in the .rar ?

If you want project armory be sure you have downloaded the pack version - not the standalone. There is two link.

[LuisMH]

Hello!

Amazing work on this mod/mod pack, congratulations!

Can you please upload the files on GoogleDrive or some other site?
I'm unable to download from Nexus, not sure why.

Thank you very much!

[Oragepoilu]

Hello!

Amazing work on this mod/mod pack, congratulations!

Can you please upload the files on GoogleDrive or some other site?
I'm unable to download from Nexus, not sure why.

Thank you very much!

In case it could help - there is also a link from mediafire. It doesn't work too for you ?