[A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields

[Antaios]

Updates to Concrete based on initial feedback:

About the limestone requirement.
Personally, it kind of sucks that the only fast/cheap (non-flammable) floor is really difficult to get now, unless you spawn with limestone. Its nice that the really tough extra walls need a specific material that might be hard to get, but not having a mass-floor that isn't flammable is frustrating.

The cement requires limestone chunks, but traders only carry limestone bricks, not chunks. Further, only orbital traders and towns you visit can even trade limestone bricks. Visiting caravans don't stock those kind of raw resources.
You can buy cement/concrete, but they'll only be available from the same traders.

Limestone blocks and chunks are also really heavy, making procurement via caravans really annoying, if anyone wants to setup a camp somewhere to mine limestone.

At the moment, There's only two ways I see getting decent amounts of cement, if your map has no limestone.
One is to make a second settlement (or camp) to mine limestone, then put a smithy down there and turn it into cement, which is light enough that you conceivably carry it home.
Or, you can take a caravan from outlander to tribe in the hopes that they stock cement/concrete in their own base. Based on 5 minutes in dev mode cycling orbital traders though, you'll be visiting a ton of villages before finding one that stocks cement/concrete.

[Canute]

About the limestone requirement.
Personally, it kind of sucks that the only fast/cheap (non-flammable) floor is really difficult to get now, unless you spawn with limestone. Its nice that the really tough extra walls need a specific material that might be hard to get, but not having a mass-floor that isn't flammable is frustrating.

In the past people choose granite/marble tile for the base.
With these mod they choose limbstone tile, no big difference.

But basicly i agree, the cement should be made from any stone, even when this isn't excact the reality.

[dburgdorf]

I said I was going to make it configurable, but then didn't bother. I should have stuck with the original plan.

OK, the next update -- probably tonight, as it'll be a simple thing to do -- will add a configuration option to "Concrete" so that those who want a bit of added difficulty and realism can set the game so that cement can only be made from limestone, but those who prefer a slightly simpler, more "abstracted" system can set the game so that cement can be made from any type of stone.

[Antaios]

I said I was going to make it configurable, but then didn't bother. I should have stuck with the original plan.

OK, the next update -- probably tonight, as it'll be a simple thing to do -- will add a configuration option to "Concrete" so that those who want a bit of added difficulty and realism can set the game so that cement can only be made from limestone, but those who prefer a slightly simpler, more "abstracted" system can set the game so that cement can be made from any type of stone.

If you can get that to work, that'll be nice.

To be fair though, I don't think having limestone needed for the reinforced and some of the other walls is bad. I'm probably still going to use limestone only, because I like the idea of that mechanic.
I'm just not entirely sure about (when not selecting limestone on the map) bumping concrete floor and fast/weak walls back later into the game.
I also wasn't sure about how hard it is to get limestone or cement, given you have to be very lucky to find a trader which has cement/concrete.

[dburgdorf]

I'm just not entirely sure about (when not selecting limestone on the map) bumping concrete floor and fast/weak walls back later into the game. I also wasn't sure about how hard it is to get limestone or cement, given you have to be very lucky to find a trader which has cement/concrete.

The problem is, it's really sort of an "all or nothing proposition." Either cement requires limestone, or it doesn't. There's no logical way to have the concrete for simple things not require limestone, but have the concrete for bunker walls require it. Setting it as a configurable option will allow players to choose which version they prefer.

That said, I can certainly also look at increasing the likelihood that traders will sell cement, which should help alleviate some of the early-game difficulty for players who do want the more realistic version, but don't have limestone on their maps.

(I need to look more closely into trader configurations, anyway. I currently have sand, dirt and the like set to not be tradeable at all, since traders were showing up with absurdly huge stockpiles of the stuff. But I'd much prefer to allow traders to carry those items, but only in smaller, more reasonable amounts.)

[SpaceDorf]

About the limestone requirement.
Personally, it kind of sucks that the only fast/cheap (non-flammable) floor is really difficult to get now, unless you spawn with limestone. Its nice that the really tough extra walls need a specific material that might be hard to get, but not having a mass-floor that isn't flammable is frustrating.

In the past people choose granite/marble tile for the base.
With these mod they choose limbstone tile, no big difference.

But basicly i agree, the cement should be made from any stone, even when this isn't excact the reality.

You could also include a recipe to craft Cement from Limestone Blocks.

[dburgdorf]

You could also include a recipe to craft Cement from Limestone Blocks.

That's actually not a bad idea. Since the blocks are just "cut out" of chunks, anyway, there's no real reason why some blocks couldn't be thrown into a smithy as easily as a chunk, for the same end result.

(I might also change the output so, say, five blocks gives you one cement, and a chunk gives you four instead of the current one, to make cement a little less of a resource hog.)

[dburgdorf]

Fertile Fields has been updated. New and improved, with 100% more clay bricks!

- Added clay to the mod. Clay can be gained by extracting it from dirt (which actually provides both clay and sand), or by further grinding sand at a rock mill.

- Creating dirt now requires sand and clay instead of sand and crushed rocks.

- Creation of dirt (and extraction of sand and clay from dirt) is now done at a crafting spot rather than at a rock mill. Rock mills are for grinding things.

- Clay can be baked into bricks in a smithy, which can then be used to make walls and other items which can be constructed from stone blocks.

- Added the ability to convert soil to packed dirt.

- Sand can now be converted to shallow water if it's near existing water, even if it isn't directly adjacent to water.

- Terraforming resources (dirt, sand, and crushed rocks) are again available from bulk traders, but hopefully only at more reasonable quantities.

- Terraforming resources might also be available from visitors, though in substantially smaller quantities than from bulk traders.

[dburgdorf]

Concrete has also been updated:

- Cement and concrete are somewhat more likely to be found on bulk traders, as per changes in "Fertile Fields."

- Limestone blocks, as well as limestone chunks, can now be used in the creation of cement.

- Cement recipes default to allowing only limestone, but can be adjusted to accept other stone types, as well.

[faltonico]

Hi there!
Thank you for your hard work on the mods! i really appreciate it!
In case you are not aware, the latest Chrome  (version 59.0.3071.104 64-bit), is giving a warning after completing the download of fertile fields about being dangerous, just so you know, i downloaded it anyway.

[dburgdorf]

In case you are not aware, the latest Chrome  (version 59.0.3071.104 64-bit), is giving a warning after completing the download of fertile fields about being dangerous....

That's odd. I just updated my copy of Chrome and tried it myself, and didn't get any such warning. I suppose that could be because Chrome recognized that it was my own file on Dropbox, but honestly, I have no idea what could even trigger such a warning....

[faltonico]

In case you are not aware, the latest Chrome  (version 59.0.3071.104 64-bit), is giving a warning after completing the download of fertile fields about being dangerous....

That's odd. I just updated my copy of Chrome and tried it myself, and didn't get any such warning. I suppose that could be because Chrome recognized that it was my own file on Dropbox, but honestly, I have no idea what could even trigger such a warning....

Thank you for your quick answer!
Well it stopped throwing the warning.... i guess it finally recognized the file as not being "unusual", i think that was the warning for, not for the file being malicious.

[wwWraith]

Imho this clay/bricks system needs to be improved. Brick walls take too much effort without any exceptional benefits, it's simpler to just use natural stone. It could be useful on flat maps with little to no natural stone, but even then you should destroy too much soil if you want your colony to be bricks-based. So it seems to be not worth it. I think these ways to get bricks should be considered secondary, and for main use there are need for some simple and reliable source of clay, like digging in a designated clay pit, and a semi-passive method of making bricks, like it is with compost barrels.

[faltonico]

Though i have to admit that i liked the solution of concrete i was using a lot (i liked the notion of using rebar, cement and gravel separately), this version adds more depth to the game. So i'll probably make the switch.
But, I personally will change the recipe to make cement in the electric smelter (not the smithy), will make brick floors a bit more beautiful and i'm thinking of making reinforced concrete from 4 to 5 k hp as i'm used to, going against 10 plasmacasting federators is no joke xD

I liked the idea of the floors and the integration with your other mods, but after a little bit of playtest i think i better stick with the mods i have been using.
Regardless of that, i still think you deserve praise for your work. Thank you!

[dburgdorf]

But, I personally will change the recipe to make cement in the electric smelter (not the smithy), will make brick floors a bit more beautiful and i'm thinking of making reinforced concrete from 4 to 5 k hp as i'm used to, going against 10 plasmacasting federators is no joke xD

I went with the smithies instead of the smelter since bricks and cement both date back to ancient times, and so I didn't want them to require electricity in the game. The alternative would have been to create a brand new production "table," which seemed more effort than was really justified.

Making brick walls and floors more beautiful is probably not a bad idea. And buffing reinforced concrete walls is certainly something I can look at.

I liked the idea of the floors and the integration with your other mods, but after a little bit of playtest i think i better stick with the mods i have been using.

Feedback on balance and other issues is always welcome, so if you have specific suggestions or observations -- whether you plan to use the mod going forward or not -- please let me know!

Brick walls take too much effort without any exceptional benefits, it's simpler to just use natural stone.... I think these ways to get bricks should be considered secondary, and for main use there are need for some simple and reliable source of clay, like digging in a designated clay pit, and a semi-passive method of making bricks, like it is with compost barrels.

I'll probably double the number of bricks you get when you fire clay, and as noted above, the beauty of brick walls and floors will probably be increased. That should help to make brick more worthwhile as an alternative to stone.

Allowing a "passive" method of making bricks by allowing them just to dry over time in the open isn't something I'd considered, but is certainly reasonable (and realistic).

I don't plan to add any sort of "digging spot," though. I've tried very hard to maintain a "zero sum game" approach to dirt and related resources in "Fertile Fields."