[A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields

[Mufflamingo]

Im no modder so i dont the hell anything about xml files.

But I know that animals have body sizes.

When you create a recipe how about making it like Cremate small animal all animals with body size 1 will be included in the recipe.(Just example, I dont knpw the real bodysize

So that new animal mods can be cremated based on their body size.

I don't what the hell Im talking about.

[SpaceDorf]

Yeah I dislike to many different recipies too .. I machining and the tailor table are only a few recipes short of a third column ..
.. without apparello ..

I need two cooking stoves two place all the cooking recipies I need ..

The comparison to recycling or smelting is better, I think there is some dark magic involved that reads numbers from recipies and calculates a output based on skill and item ( at least skully does that .. there are many variations )

Also the different recipies would mean you either calculate by weight of the critter which recipe is used ( which also gives us the output .. )
or sort them all by hand ..

What you could use is the meat amount of the animals, like the butcher recipie does but this also involves dark bloody magic.

[Mufflamingo]

So we should define how much raw compost each animal one by one? Just like meat? And skills should also affect the product of the cremation?

[SpaceDorf]

So we should define how much raw compost each animal one by one? Just like meat? And skills should also affect the product of the cremation?

Nope, Rainbeau should steal the method from butchering, take the meat value of an animal and compare it to the required nutrition value for one compost .. ( divide by 15, at least with rotten mush )
So the yield shout be between  1 compost ( rat - 20 meat ) and 32 compost ( thrumbo - 490 meat ) and the workamount should be per yield ( I don't know if this is possible )
This calculation actully gives less compost than butchering, when the meat amount is not dividable by 15, but I think even with a loss of 25% in the case of the rat, the comfort of the operation beats the micromanagement for yield.
Plus, there is no leather

[dburgdorf]

Minor update:

- The "cremate for compost" recipe again allows animal corpses to be used, but requires a minimum total mass of 50 kg, so a single squirrel corpse, for example, can't be cremated for the same yield as a human corpse.

(Creating a new method to allow ingredient requirements to be based on mass by copying the existing method that allows ingredient requirements to be based on nutrition was much simpler than creating an entirely new recipe handler, which would have been necessary to allow variable output based on differing input.)

(That said, this system isn't perfect. It calculates based on a thing type's "default" mass rather than on specific things' actual masses. But it's good enough for the moment, at least.)

[dburgdorf]

marsh + 2 gravel,  1 sand/dirt = rocky dirt  ... with the new gui there is room for more recipes   

I'll have to spend an hour or two figuring out all your math, but if I'm not missing your point completely, you're suggesting that there should be a "one-step" method of converting marsh into some sort of terrain that can support heavy construction. Is that the gist of it?

just add a recipe to the concrete add-on .. one bag of concrete for marshy soil, two bags of concrete for marsh and three bags for shallow water ... after that 7 cloth for green carpet 

And now you're suggesting... Astro-Turf? 

[SpaceDorf]

I'll have to spend an hour or two figuring out all your math, but if I'm not missing your point completely, you're suggesting that there should be a "one-step" method of converting marsh into some sort of terrain that can support heavy construction. Is that the gist of it?

Yes, Like I said in between, I lost myself in comparing conversion recipies with each other.
Based on the assumption : How many steps and how many ressources do I need when turning marsh into something else ..
and back. The basic assumption being normal fertile soil.
And like any good mathematician I mashed a few numbers together and may have skipped a step or two in between.
Mostly because of being tired and derailing my own train of thought .. while fascinating enough the numbers did not match ..

just add a recipe to the concrete add-on .. one bag of concrete for marshy soil, two bags of concrete for marsh and three bags for shallow water ... after that 7 cloth for green carpet 

And now you're suggesting... Astro-Turf? 

The 7 cloth may or may not be the vanilla requirements for carpet .. I am not 100% certain that this is not changed by a mod .. but if by Astro you mean  fake then yes
Pave it over and color it green

Thank you Google ..
I was not aware, that AstroTurf is a brand of synthetic turf .. me being european

====== EDIT ======

OCMe could not let go, I was pushing the numbers of the recipes around.

First off, your math is great, except for Fertilizer which acts as catalyst for gaining better soil, it really stays a zero sum game, when I keep in mind that everything else can somehow be produced from everything else.

I think what confuses me are the steps ..
and after following the steps around for a while I finally found out why marshy soil is such an itch on my brain.

Okay .. in my brain I sort like the menu .. there is rock as one extreme and deep water as the other extreme
which gives me a high side ( as in mountain ) and a deep side ( as in ocean ) of terraforming.
So fertility becomes the center or average between high and deep.

for example I can reach deeper, by removing dirt from soil and create marsh ..

or I pile up by creating marshy soil from marsh and mud ..

and there it is .. the sore tooth ...
I can only create marshy soil by piling up from below, if I have common soil I have to dig around marshy soil and then fill it from below .. this feels strange.

The other thing is Marshy Soil is the only recipe that changes two soil types, mud and marsh, into one, but without any single way to recreate one of them.
There is not one single recipe that creates mud, or creates something else from mud.

Which for one entangled itself with my suspension of disbelief, because the description and usage of marshy soil is now different than any other soil type.
And it robs me of the strategic value of mud.
Of the deep soiltypes mud has the distinctive feature of being slow ground but without allowing growth.
Similiar to shallow water but optically still being a firesave soil.

And while thinking about it, I also found at least some fitting recipes :

Digging Down into Mud gives Clay and generates Shallow Water.
Putting Clay back in Shallow Water generates Mud.

I still have no Idea how to get marshy soil from above .. because the only solution I can see is adding water instead of removing something ..

hmm .. removing crushed rock from gravel, and removing only one dirt from common soil could create marshy soil ..
remove what keeps the water out ..
or put sand and fertilizer into sand to keep the water in and create mud ..


sorry that got longer than I planned .. but it has satisfied my itching suspense of disbelief.
A way to pave over marsh would still be great, but thats just me being lazy and not wanting to give several terraforming orders bevor I can build ... Astro-Turf®

[dburgdorf]

Concrete has been updated:

- Added reinforced concrete doors to match the reinforced concrete walls.

- Concrete walls, doors and floors return crushed rock when deconstructed.

- Added embrasures that can be built from vanilla wall materials and from clay bricks.

- Moved embrasures from the Structure tab of the Architect menu to the Security tab.

[SpaceDorf]

Concrete has been updated:

- Added reinforced concrete doors to match the reinforced concrete walls.

- Concrete walls, doors and floors return crushed rock when deconstructed.

- Added embrasures that can be built from vanilla wall materials and from clay bricks.

- Moved embrasures from the Structure tab of the Architect menu to the Security tab.

For once man, send an update before I load my savegame !!

TripleA ( awesome as always ) to have concrete doors, but for balance reasons you should
change the open speed of the doors to be closer to block doors than plasteel doors.

For a open speed comparison :
Blocks    : 45%
Uranium : 65%
Else       : 100% ( wood, steel, plasteel )

Funny enough it is a Stuff Property of the ressource Material.
If you apply this to the concrete ressource it changes the open speed.
Code Snippet taken from concrete bricks.

Code Select Expand


<statFactors>
<Beauty>0.8</Beauty>
<MarketValue>0.45</MarketValue>
<MaxHitPoints>1.6</MaxHitPoints>
<Flammability>0</Flammability>
<WorkToBuild>4.0</WorkToBuild>
<WorkToMake>1.0</WorkToMake>
<DoorOpenSpeed>0.45</DoorOpenSpeed>
<BedRestEffectiveness>0.9</BedRestEffectiveness>
<MeleeWeapon_Cooldown>1.35</MeleeWeapon_Cooldown>
</statFactors>


[dburgdorf]

For once man, send an update before I load my savegame !!

File your gaming schedule, in triplicate, with my admin assistant at least a week in advance, and I'll be sure to ignore it and continue on my merry way take it under advisement in deciding when to release future updates.

TripleA ( awesome as always ) to have concrete doors, but for balance reasons you should
change the open speed of the doors to be closer to block doors than plasteel doors.

Good point.

[dburgdorf]

You asked for it; you got it.

- Reinforced concrete autodoors now open just slightly slower than stone block autodoors, instead of opening just as fast as plasteel autodoors.

[Schwartz]

I'm enjoying this mod overall. Fertilizer production feels balanced as in slow enough that it offsets how powerful fertile fields are. Bricks are a nice addition. One thing that bothers me is sandbags: They're prohibitively expensive. Sandbags are meant as a quick and disposable fortification, yet the cloth requirement means you won't get them until you have a cloth industry - and even with a decently sized industry I can't seem to get enough to get a measly couple dozen sandbags built around my base. Consider cutting down on cloth. I think 10-20 per bag would be more reasonable.

[dburgdorf]

One thing that bothers me is sandbags: They're prohibitively expensive.

Fair point. I based the cloth requirement on the requirements for clothing items, figuring that it made sense (in real world terms) that a sandbag would probably use about as much cloth as a shirt or jacket. I hadn't considered (in game terms) the fact that you're likely to want to be able to build a lot more sandbags than shirts.

(I also hadn't really thought about how I was throwing off design balance. In vanilla, after all, you can build a bunch of sandbags as soon as the game starts, if you want to, because you've usually got a fair amount steel lying around. With my changes, while getting sand on most maps isn't a huge problem, even if you have to spend a bit of time sifting it out of dirt, the cloth requirement puts a harder bottleneck on the process.)

[kaptain_kavern]

Something to mitigate: Having sandbag been able to be made from any fabrics (leather anybody?) not just cloth. For it to be accessible a bit earlier.

Folks could still use chunks in the meantime (for cover, not clothing :p )

PS: I've just made a mini mod for making sandbag movable     IMHO it is something you should add to yours for mitigate the heavier cost than in vanilla, maybe (it's just a matter of adding a MinifiedDef tag)

[Canute]

With the concrete addon, sandbag don't made much sense then.
Special not when they are very expensive.
Concrete Embrasures are very "cheap" to build, sure maybe you don't have early access to concrete/cement, but most of the concrete i got/needed i got from visitor presents (Hospitality) or bought from visitor/caravans.

I think you should lower the sandbag cost to 1-5 sand, 1 textile.
Don't forget sandbags are destroy pretty fast too. And when you arn't in a desert you will have trouble with sand too, if you don't got a stonemill.