An unstable build of the next version is available on Steam. Today I'm only announcing this for loyal forumgoers only. I'll be progressively publicizing this as the build stabilizes.
Warning:
-This is an unstable build. It will get updated without warning, may randomly break your savegame or become unplayable for periods. Please only test if you're willing to put up with some technical issues. There are some known bugs and we expect to find many more.
On topic:
This thread is for giving feedback and discussing the build as you've played it. Open-ended suggestions go in the suggestions forum, bugs go in the bugs forum. Questions, theorycrafting, and really low-effort posts are likely to get removed.
To access:
-In Steam Library, right click RimWorld -> Properties -> Betas tab -> select the unstable branch. Restart Steam and play.
Streaming:
-I'm not going to enforce it or be mad or anything, but I'd prefer if streamers would hold off streaming until the game is stable. I'd hate for bugs and imbalances to give a bad impression. That said, it's your choice.
Feedback:
-Feedback from play experiences is much much more worthwhile than theorycrafting. Please don't spend time giving a ton of feedback just from reading the changelist.
-I'd love to hear play stories in this thread or any other thread. (Play stories are often more useful than suggestions).
-Please report bugs in the bugs forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0) using the simple guide How To Report a Bug (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=513.0)!
-If you have suggestions, we welcome them. Please post suggestions in the suggestions forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=6.0).
Unresolved issues:
-Back compatibility is a bit spotty, some buildings will vanish and you'll get errors here and there. We're still solving some back-compatibility issues. But, unmodded saves from B18 and probably A17 should load.
For translators:
-Extensive improvements have been made to the translation system. Read about them here (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41942.msg412629).
-The "Translation report" button on the main menu will give a detailed text file which lists all the issues to be resolved with the current translation. Use it!
-Some unresolved issues remain: The backstory titles won't match right now. That's okay. We're going to change the game so they match automatically, so you can ignore this problem at the moment.
-I recommend Visual Studio Code for editing translations. It's called "code" but it's great for editing XML too. Just use it to open the translation folder.
-Collaborate on the translations forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=17.0).
Feedback request details:
A lot has changed, so it would be really good to get feedback game-wide. But especially on these topics:
General raid difficulty progression, noting that the system probably deploys its points more efficiently now and some high-cost pawn kinds were costed down.
How much wealth various colonies actually have. I'd love to see screenshots of wealth graphs of long games to help balance the "Expectations" thought thresholds.
Profitability of various crafting paths. Art should probably be better.
Ally assistance frequency and usefulness.
The difficulty and interest of the ship ending sequence.
The difficulty of training, maintaining, and using a large amount of animals both for economic and warfighting purposes.
The difficulty/balance of maintaining recreation and the clarity of the system.
List of major changes:
-Added bridges. You can build bridges over rivers and non-deep lake/ocean water. Bridges support all but the heaviest structures, can burn, and collapse under damage.
-Added new "Messages" section of the History tab. This section shows the last 200 messages and letters you've received.
-Added low-tech plate armor.
-New scenario: Naked Brutality - Start naked with no items.
-New main tab: Wildlife. Allows easy counting, finding, and designating of wild animals.
-Ship end sequence: Starting up the ship reactor now takes 15 days, during which you will be attacked constantly by desperadoes and mechanoids.
-New raid arrival mode: Multiple groups.
-New raid arrival mode: Enemy pods scattered all over the map.
-Split mechanoid scyther into scyther (close combat specialist) and lancer (fast sniper)
-Split tribal warrior into warrior (mid-range melee) and penitent (poverty melee, similar to drifter)
-Faction relations are now categorized as hostile/neutral/ally instead of just hostile/neutral. Allies will randomly send military aid and will respond to certain special requests.
-You can now offer gifts to improve faction relations by using transport pods, sending caravans, or giving gifts to their traders. Gifts can be silver, items, or slaves. No more magical teleporting silver gifts.
-Visitors of allied factions will now occasionally leave gifts before leaving.
-New buildings:
--Watermill generator: Generate power from moving water.
--Autocannon turret: Heavy medium-range turret.
--Uranium slug turret: Armor-penetrating long-range turret.
--Fabrication bench: Craft advanced components and some advanced tech items.
--Waterproof conduit: Transmit power under water for bases on both sides of a river.
--Butcher spot: Butcher without building a bench, at an efficiency penalty.
--Double sleeping spot: Sleep with your partner, even in crushing poverty.
-New traits:
--Undergrounder: Don't mind never seeing the sky, don't mind being in darkness.
--Great memory: Slower skill decay.
--Tough: Take less damage.
--Gourmand: Eat a lot, random eating binges, cooking skill bonus.
--Sickly: Get sick often.
--Quick sleeper: Take less time to sleep.
-New items:
--Flak pants
--Prosthetic heart
--Bionic spine/heart/stomach
--Archotech eye/arm/leg
--Tornado generator
--Patchleather: Poor-quality leather made from any combination of other leather
-New incident: "Wild man wanders in".
-New terrain: Soft sand - doesn't allow building medium or heavy structures.
-New designators: Mass-forbid and unforbid.
-Infestations now begin with the insects tunneling towards the colony, which gives the player time to respond.
-You can now write job titles for your colonists.
-New type of attack: Kick sand/water in eyes.
-Condensed leathers together into fewer types. Instead of a separate type for each animal, there are categories.
-You can now smooth natural rough rock walls into high-quality walls.
-Trained animal skills and tameness now decay over time. Animals can revert to the wild, depending on their natural wildness.
-Deep drill use will now sometimes cause insect attacks (by tunneling through the ground near the drill, with a warning).
-New edge shader for blueprints looks much nicer and more visible than before.
-Workbench bills can now be assigned to specific colonists.
-Added "Show what will buy" window which shows all items a trader will buy.
-Trees' color now depends on the current season.
-Added tainted-apparel thing filter.
-Increased prisoner recruitment chance and added a resistance which must be reduced to zero before recruitment can begin.
-Animals can now be renamed.
-Animals can now get diseases.
-Added an automatic destroyed building replacement toggle. When active, a destroyed building will leave behind a blueprint and be automatically rebuilt.
-Added translation report tool: Generates a report about the currently-loaded language data stating which translations are missing, which are unnecessary, and lots of other useful information.
-Added translation cleaner tool: Corrects many common problems in translation files and adds/updates English language reference for every string in the game.
-You can mass-toggle various checkboxes and drop-down selections by clicking and dragging the mouse over them.
-Workbench bills can now be copied and pasted.
-Colonists now opportunistically haul items while working if their current target is roughly in the same direction.
-The player can now request AI-core quests from allies.
-It's now possible to craft prosthetic and bionic body parts, grenades, and molotovs.
-It's now possible to mass-cancel all designations with a designator's right-click menu.
-It's now possible to forbid/unforbid all items and rearm all traps with a designator's right-click menu.
-You can now drag and reorder colonists in the colonist bar.
-Social interaction log now has flavorful randomized text instead of the same repeated interaction text every time.
-Mods page now has a search bar so you can easily find one mod in your list of hundreds.
-In some very bad situations, a mysterious Man in Black may arrive. Can he set things right in these parts?
-Armor system reworked into a 3-outcome system with armor penetration. The armor penetration of the weapon is subtracted from the armor value of the armor. This gives an effective armor rating, measured as a percent. We roll a RNG out of 100%. If the result is under half the effective AR, the hit is totally deflected. If the result is over half the effective AR, but under the effective AR, the hit is mitigated - damage is reduced by half and sharp hits are converted to bruise. If the result is over the effective AR, the hit passes the armor and applies normally. As before, armor is applied in sequence from the outside in. AR maxes out at 200%. Default armor penetration is 1.5% per point of damage, but some weapons vary from this.
-Totally reworked how plants grow; they now grow everywhere at once instead of reproducing plant-by-plant. Wild plants after several in-game years should now look more or less as good as at the beginning.
-Long-range mineral scanner can now be tuned to seek specific minerals, and must be worked by a researcher.
-Battles in the Combat tab are now named.
-Items of the same type in the Items tab are now grouped together.
-Items in the Items tab can now be sorted by mass, market value, etc.
-Instead of shooting them, hunters now execute downed creatures with a neck cut (except explosive creatures).
-When placing or selecting work stations where pawns can sit while working, the spot where the pawn goes is indicated by a chair outline so the player realizes that a chair can be built there.
-Removed tornado incident.
-Improved caravaning:
--Redesigned how world movement speed is fed back per-world tile.
--Pack animals now follow colonists to speed up the packing process.
--Added Caravan tab with caravan loading progress.
--Redesigned "Form caravan" window: stats like carried mass, caravan speed, days worth of food, and visibility are now explained better.
--Caravans now automatically forage for food while traveling.
--Added "Remove from caravan" command: remove people or animals from the caravan even if it hasn't left the map yet.
--Added "Load into caravan" right-click option: designate extra items to be picked up by the caravan before leaving.
--Caravan speed now depends on the carried weight.
--Caravan members now slowly gain social recreation when the caravan is not moving.
--Caravan visibility is now explicitly expressed and better explained than the old caravan stealth. This makes small caravans more relevant.
--Quest prompts now give much more information about what kinds of challenges to expect.
--When reforming a caravan, we now list colonists' inventory separately so the player can choose what to take and what to leave.
--Caravans who are not moving now have a lower chance of being attacked.
-Transport pods now have a contents list which allows removing things from the pod.
-Blunt weapons now have a chance to stun the target.
-Joy is renamed to 'recreation'.
-Using deep drills can cause insect attacks.
-Changed deep moving water to chest-deep moving water: walkable but slower than shallow water.
-Turrets are cheaper and more powerful, but now consume steel/uranium for maintenance after firing a lot.
-Character log now integrates log messages from combat and social interactions.
-Deadfall trap redesigned to Spike trap: Much more powerful with a 100% chance to spring on targets, and has armor penetration (depending on what it's made of) but requires resources to replace.
-Insects will now go into an insect-specific "hypothermic slowdown" instead of getting hypothermia and dying on the first winter.
-Alphabeavers incident now only occurs in biomes with sparse plants so they're not meaningless.
-The refugee from the "downed refugee" world quest can be instantly recruited by offering help.
-Removed scyther blade.
-Mechanoids now always die on downed.
-Doing passionate work now affects mood instead of recreation.
-Deep drills now yield stone chunks if no resource is below.
-Firefoam poppers will now pop whenever there's a fire in a 3-cell radius, instead of only when the fire touches them.
-Food poisoning now has three stages it moves through over the course of a day.
-Pawns hit by ranged attacks now stagger the same way as pawns hit by melee attacks. This effect only happens if the weapon's stopping power stat is equal or greater than the target's body size.
-Most crafting benches are now uninstallable and reinstallable.
-Removed shiv since it's basically a low-quality knife.
-It's now possible to craft knives at crafting spots.
-"autostart.rws" is now automatically loaded on start in dev mode, for faster testing.
-Techprof subpersona core now completes current research instead of random research.
-Combined rib body parts into rib cage.
-Reworked the "advanced map options" dialog layout, extreme game-breaking map sizes are now disabled by default and must be enabled in the options.
-Tribal factions can now do sapper raids.
-Added medical care column to the Assign tab.
-Removed shoddy and superior item qualities.
-Rebalanced and refactored quality generation. Masterwork/legendary level items never generate on enemies, traders, bases. Masterwork items are extra hard to craft, and legendary requires an inspiration.
-Removed the distinction between allowed areas and animal areas.
-Wearing new apparel now takes time. Colonists now take off the colliding apparel first (which takes time) before wearing the new one.
-Added minimum crafting skill to various weapon and apparel crafting recipes.
-Removed the requirement to pay fee to initiate the item stash quest.
-Various floors now require research.
-Settling very near another faction base will now cause faction relations loss every quadrum because of anger due to territorial encroachment.
-Fulfilling trade requests now gives goodwill.
-Destroying a faction base of a mutual enemy now gives goodwill.
-All traders are now unwilling to buy tainted apparel and short-life meals.
-Improved animal fleeing behavior
-No human enemies spawn with weapons above industrial tech.
-Charge lance is now craftable and usable by humans.
-Explosive weapons now explode when set on fire.
-Wood-powered fires and coolers no longer vanish when fuel is exhausted; they wait to be refueled.
-Tons of art has been redone and adjusted.
-Many, many other bugfixes, interface and balance adjustments
Reserved.
Quote-Minor starvation (below 25% severity) no longer causes miscarriages
Mis...carriages? What is this 'miscarriage' concept? I seem to have missed that update.
Pregnant animals can miscarry since animal breeding was introduced (years ago).
That makes much more sense. I thought I'd missed a people-breeding update. I guess I haven't had issues with that particular problem, and it had never occurred to me that it was possible to miscarry.
Glad to see you're still working hard :) Always great to see an update.
So many things in there I want to try!
If I turn this on and start a new game will my pre-existing saves be at risk?
Looks like a lot of great changes, especially glad to see how many of the QoL mods seem to have been integrated into the base game. Thanks Tynan!
Wew, now the couple hundred annoying ones screaming where's 1.0 can quieten down a bit.... I hope
Sounds (reads) awesome ! :D
Hmm, from an initial glance at the changes it seems the economic game is going to be tougher now. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Can't play much this week though unfortunately, but something to look forward for next week then. :3
Quote from: Pizza Mode on June 17, 2018, 12:53:07 AM
So many things in there I want to try!
If I turn this on and start a new game will my pre-existing saves be at risk?
As long as you don't touch your old saves with the new version it shouldn't affect them.
I once made a thread complaining about being unable to wear armor vests over tribalwear, lo and behold that's being fixed. Tynan you beautiful bastard you.
Looks like some good changes, I'll play through a bit more and offer more feedback however...
After loading it up to take a look at the caravan forming options. I like the new interface details, very handy info, but to be honest I was pretty underwhelmed about the caravan forming interface itself. I was kind of expecting something like being able to save templates based on this update having a big overhaul to caravans in general.
One of the common actions I usually do (and I'm sure most others do as well): -
1. Make a caravan with the same guys (good shooting/melee skills), the same amount of food (~5 days worth), some medical supplies + modded items and send them to a nearby event like a item stash, rescue etc.
2. Form a mining crew (with similar supplies) to get resources that are not available on your settlements map anymore.
3. Form a trading caravan with 2 guards my best negotiator and some burden animals.
It's fairly painful having to re-select the same people and same basic stuff every single time for the various scenario's and I often forget to grab something that would go with a caravan of that type every time while I'm adding all the other stuff thats not part of my basic template.
TLDR: I was hoping with this major update to caravan's that templates might actually be a thing to make using them for varius things less painful.
Yes.
YEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Quote from: ShadowTani on June 17, 2018, 01:53:08 AM
As long as you don't touch your old saves with the new version it shouldn't affect them.
Ah thank you, I'll give unstable a shot then
Looking great, Ludeon! We've had complaints, and you've solved a lot of them!
I'm loving some of the small things you did a lot. Sure, watermills and butcher spots are nice, but the increased viability of beer (fulfilling my fantasy of my space-moonshiners not being beat out by space-stoners in profit margins, at least somewhat) and wargs (now feeling like the ideal min/maxed pet) are greatly appreciated! Dropping the power consumption for the things that sit idle so much (lamps, turrets, vital monitors) are also amazing tweaks!
Lots of changes I dislike in a way but also understand and like in another, such as the removal of the shiv, removal of spacer weapons from humans, and crippling of battery capacity. I wouldn't change any of those, though I - as someone who never used shivs - will miss shivs. . . for some reason I can't explain.
Things I dislike? The culling of the mechanoid weapons, for one. I liked getting miniguns and scyther blades off those guys, made it worth the severe damage or death a single one of them could dish-out, and it added a neat layer that is also found in the tusk/horn you can get off of elephants or thrumbos. I'm iffy about the addition of the charge lance, as I can see it as being the reason the mechs had their weapons removed (you wanted to add it, but didn't want one mob to drop two great weapons, right?). It's odd to have a charge lance added that's also found on these unknowably-complex mechanoids when you can't craft AI cores, or artifacts. Additionally: Removing the ability to sell "tainted" apparel to traders. Ordinarily, I'd have no issue with the inability to sell blood-soaked shirts to a caravan trying to survive on a harsh planet with limited resources, but we really have no other alternative. It's usually not a viable idea, but you can smelt old weapons, but the only thing to do with tainted apparel is burn the stuff. At least being able to nab a couple textiles or make something like a dummy would be appreciated.
EDIT: Forgot to mention greenthumb! Why'd you have to get rid of that?
Overall though? I appreciate all the little changes. They add a lot to the game in total, and it's actually pretty nice to not see a bunch of big things that will be broken anyways while the iffy stuff stays broken.
P.S. Hey Tynan, you know you can make, like, bulleted lists and headings, right? Sure it's minor compared to all the work you did for the actual game everybody's bugging you to work on, but the post was a bit of an eyesore, and I can complain about anything.
You sadistic bastard. I have an interview tomorrow and I need to be rested...Is this all just payback for the "murdering and turning Tynan into a hat" thing on Reddit? I said I was sorry damnit!
QuoteReduced artillery accuracy slightly
Why?! It can't hit an army of 20 in 5 hits, why reduce it even further?!
Hey Tynan,
Thanks for uploading the unstable build, I'm excited to see what will come to be with the game by the time the stable 1.0 gets released. Keep up the good work! ;D
P.S. I'd like to know if there will be things like animal drawn carts or small sailing vessels added in the stable 1.0.
Thanks again,
Ace
Thank you. This made my day.
At one point I thought I was reading a list of features for all my RimWorld mods. This is a great update.
Just got my hands on 1.0 unstable (x64 executable), and the game is already sending errors.
EDIT: more errors (hurray!).
EDIT #2: and the errors don't stop coming and they don't stop coming, filling my output log with alot of nonsense.
[attachment deleted due to age]
> alpaca [...] no longer nuzzle
But why? Real life alpacas nuzzle all the time! Plus, this change made my wife sad.
Quote-Back compatibility is a bit spotty, some buildings will vanish and you'll get errors here and there. We're still solving some back-compatibility issues. But, unmodded saves from B18 and probably A17 should load.
Why? Just forget about it and move into important things. Someone will eventually post a guide about how to update the save game.
Quote from: Almantuxas on June 17, 2018, 05:10:06 AM
Just got my hands on 1.0 unstable (x64 executable), and the game is already sending errors.
EDIT: more errors (hurray!).
EDIT #2: and the errors don't stop coming and they don't stop coming, filling my output log with alot of nonsense.
You're loading the game with a ton of mods, which are all developed with B18 in mind. Of course that won't work. Disable the mods, and try to start a new game.
Quote from: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:10:34 PM
-New incident: "Wild man wanders in"
Yes!!! Finally my dream has come true!! Thank you Tynan! :D
Now time to hunt some wild men with my cannibal colony...
making grand sculpture of tynan.P.S I did test out the unstable development build. i gotta say i like the looks of the lancers and the charge lance now becoming equipable weapons by pawns other than mechanoids only and the looks and redesign for the mechanoids . But i'm gonna miss the sythers back in A14 or in B18 when they are trying to snipe me. :'( But luckily they are melee only now eating their own long-ranged medicine!
About how easy to have animals... I checked the game with hope but I dont see an essential feature. The hardest part for me is to know how many animals I have and since I have to count them manually I end up having as little animals as possible. Even trying to have only 20 huskies is a pain, cause they will reproduce and you will have to count them every now and then to make sure you dont have to many. You can guess how it goes with chicken, but not better...
So basically we need an animal counter... And if possible some kind of orientative information to know how much food they eat.
Quote from: Roolo on June 17, 2018, 06:55:56 AM
You're loading the game with a ton of mods, which are all developed with B18 in mind. Of course that won't work. Disable the mods, and try to start a new game.
When I was loading the save (actually autosaving), Core was the only thing enabled in the Mods menu. Just because the log file's huge, doesn't mean I have many mods enabled.
If you saved the game with a ton of mods then the game will expect those mods and probably dont even work... I dont see where is the hard to understand thing. Best you can do is load the save in b18 without mods. If it loads, then save it again, without mods, then load it in 1.0. If it doesnt load in b18 without mods, then you should delete all modded things in your map.
I never could grasp how could colonists build gun turrets whilst unable to craft a simple blunderbuss. @Tynan , is it possible/viable to make a "gun turret mount", on which you can mount any shooting weapon you buy/loot/craft? That would make much more sense than all those auto-turrets.
I have been thinking... For animals and plants, I have to made calculations with excel to know how many of them I need but then I thought... Why hide this information from the players?
The suggestion would be to show a stat in every animal and plant that says "yield nutrition/day" and "required nutrition/day". For plants it would be at 100% fertility, no need to include the math in every fertility.
For animals it needs to include all the time it needs until it gets into full maturity, then divide the nutrition provided (meat amount x 0.05) with that time to know the "yield nutrition/day". In animals it should also show how much "required nutrition/day" it needs.
This is cause what most makes me not go animals is how hard is to estimate what I need. How much hay? How many animals I need to support X colonist? etc. The same could be said for pawns and rice/potatoes tho.
This suggestion might be too number intensive, but I cannot come with any better. What Im sure is that we need some kind of orientative information to know how much a pawn or animal eats in term of plants or other animals, and how much they give.
the trait sickly gives +4 medicine is this working as intended?
the changelog is just this:
Quote--Sickly - get sick often
Quote from: mightyhuhn on June 17, 2018, 08:21:09 AM
the trait sickly gives +4 medicine is this working as intended?
the changelog is just this:
Quote--Sickly - get sick often
Intended, it's counterbalancing and we like to think that being sick your whole life would teach you a bit about sickness.
Quote from: Almantuxas on June 17, 2018, 05:10:06 AM
Just got my hands on 1.0 unstable (x64 executable), and the game is already sending errors.
EDIT: more errors (hurray!).
EDIT #2: and the errors don't stop coming and they don't stop coming, filling my output log with alot of nonsense.
Wait, does that mean RimWorld is now 64-bit? :D
I can't wait to try these changes out!
I was thinking a while back you had posted about making changes to how grass is spread. Were any changes/adjustments made to that process?
Thanks!
Quote from: MisterVertigo on June 17, 2018, 09:27:05 AM
I can't wait to try these changes out!
I was thinking a while back you had posted about making changes to how grass is spread. Were any changes/adjustments made to that process?
Thanks!
Oh yeah, ison completely redid it. So it covers the map all at once now and regrowth looks the same as initial growth.
Didn't I mention that? I will, it's a big deal.
Quote from: Tynan on June 17, 2018, 09:29:37 AM
Quote from: MisterVertigo on June 17, 2018, 09:27:05 AM
I can't wait to try these changes out!
I was thinking a while back you had posted about making changes to how grass is spread. Were any changes/adjustments made to that process?
Thanks!
Oh yeah, ison completely redid it. So it covers the map all at once now and regrowth looks the same as initial growth.
Didn't I mention that? I will, it's a big deal.
Excellent! I kept hoping to see this mentioned along with adjustments made to trees and crops. Looking forward to testing all the things!
What is this exactly?
(https://i.imgur.com/QJcbNS1.jpg)
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 17, 2018, 09:53:52 AM
What is this exactly?
(https://i.imgur.com/QJcbNS1.jpg)
Deny if you want, or not. The only networking RW does is the main menu version check.
Nothing changed on this since last build.
Cheers for the early testing invite.
Is the new MapLeakTracker working properly? Calling MapLeakTracker.ForceLeakCheck() always reports a leaked map after starting a new game, then returning to the main menu.
I just load a very simple mod to make the call, no other changes to the game.
God I wasn't sure how much longer I could endure the wait for this, but after seeing all the amazing changes.... mein gott, its a beautiful update.
Quicky:
Started my first plantation and the drop down list is chaotic, sort "Alphabetically" please, but separate per minimum skill requirement, this means I prefer to see no skill needed sorted on top and then gradually list below based on skill number but again, alphabetically too.
Tynan, if it's not too much of a hassle, in the scenario editor (and maybe the devmode), can certain things be alphabetically categorised?
Quote from: Tynan on June 17, 2018, 09:29:37 AM
Oh yeah, ison completely redid it. So it covers the map all at once now and regrowth looks the same as initial growth.
Didn't I mention that? I will, it's a big deal.
Is there a work tab that adds that splits construction and repair?
It's nice to split people who repair and people who build things since raids or other events that damages structures. colonists prioritize repair rather than constructing a missing or fixing a hole in the wall.
Just a suggestion that i ran around and found from the Suggestions fourms. ;)
I've been reading the whole Tynan post and haven't found about the issue where hurt animals are fed with the best meals.
Also
Quote from: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:11:23 PM-No more faction relations impact if a friendly person is caught in crossfire when firing at a mutually hostile target
Doesn't it look abusable as some people may intentionally shoot through allies?
Quote from: Kirby23590 on June 17, 2018, 10:32:43 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 17, 2018, 09:29:37 AM
Oh yeah, ison completely redid it. So it covers the map all at once now and regrowth looks the same as initial growth.
Didn't I mention that? I will, it's a big deal.
Is there a work tab that adds that splits construction and repair?
It's nice to split people who repair and people who build things since raids or other events that damages structures. colonists prioritize repair rather than constructing a missing or fixing a hole in the wall.
Just a suggestion that i ran around and found from the Suggestions fourms. ;)
I'm out of the loop, sure, but I think I remember Fluffy's(?) Work Tab doing that. Splitting all categories by individual task, and then you could assign some to have higher 'construction' and some t have a higher priority 'repair' task.
If Tynan&Co don't do something about it.
Quote from: Kirby23590 on June 17, 2018, 10:32:43 AM
Is there a work tab that adds that splits construction and repair?
It's nice to split people who repair and people who build things since raids or other events that damages structures. colonists prioritize repair rather than constructing a missing or fixing a hole in the wall.
Just a suggestion that i ran around and found from the Suggestions fourms. ;)
Build and repair used to be different work types but they were fused in A16 i think... I used to have everyone in 1 in repair, but only builders in building, so I could repair very quickly after a raid. Idk what to say... FOr once i miss it being split but Im a sucker for simplicity... Even if its not good :/
I can't rescue escape pod people
Quote from: santafefoundation on June 17, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
I can't rescue escape pod people
Escaped, that means you imprisoned them before.
Then you need to capture them like before.
Tynan,
Thank you so much for developing a 64-bit version of RimWorld, I just tested it and everything is working good so far. I think if anyone chooses to heavily mod their game, they would need about 8gb minimum. To anyone that wants to access this version, you need to create a separate shortcut to the file RimWorldWin64.
This maybe a dumb question, but will modders have to make a different version of their mod for the 64-bit version?
Quote from: TastyCookies on June 17, 2018, 12:21:07 PM
This maybe a dumb question, but will modders have to make a different version of their mod for the 64-bit version?
The Linux B18 version was allready 64-bit and all mod's works there.
By saying ludicrous cause issues with AI and other aspects of the game, you mean its worse than before? I personally did not find anything game breaking playing with ludicrous all the time. Not anything bad enough to be a bother at least.
Quote from: jchavezriva on June 17, 2018, 12:46:57 PM
By saying ludicrous cause issues with AI and other aspects of the game, you mean its worse than before? I personally did not find anything game breaking playing with ludicrous all the time. Not anything bad enough to be a bother at least.
I dont think so. He explained it several times in the past. Ludicrous breaks the game in some minor ways other than the massive memory and performance hit (which is pretty high tbh). For example, mortars in a siege might not be able to reach your base and thus making the event worthless. Caravans breaking mood cause of sleep deprivation cause they cant reach the exit in time, etc. Tynan said that the events arent balanced for a map this big and this might make the game unenjoyabe.
So with the requirement of having to explicitly enable the big maps, he makes sure that new players will at least try the game as he intends first, instead of making the possible mistake of playing the biggest map available cause "bigger is better and if its there is because i should play it".
Flattered to see some of my mods implemented! Keep up the good work.
Quote from: Canute on June 17, 2018, 12:03:51 PM
Quote from: santafefoundation on June 17, 2018, 11:56:51 AM
I can't rescue escape pod people
Escaped, that means you imprisoned them before.
Then you need to capture them like before.
Nope. Santafefoundation is referring to random pawns who show up downed in escape pods, just like the ones your initial pawns show up in when using the "Crashlanded" scenario.
Cassandra Rough, Standard New Arrivals Start - Play Story / Feedback
(Day 1) - Chose a temperate coastal area with with a huge river. The river has two sets of collapsed rocks in it. I honestly don't know if they're supposed to be river rocks or if it's a bug, but I'd recommend a different texture/name if it isn't a bug. I build a campfire, and the estimate says it should last 2 days. I've had to refuel it twice by hour 8 of the second day.
(Day 2) - Xue, the Prostitute Idol, gets eaten by a lynx not far from my base. Her lack of combat skills means she's dead before I can respond. Rough start. She gets buried in a shallow grave, but we name our faction the Lynxslayers and the colony Xue's Rest in her honor.
(Day 3) - Wolf attacks our colony's dog. Manage to respond this time, but the dog dies in the crossfire. Wild animals seem much more aggressive in this patch. I like it, but I wish there were some way to easily indicate that an animal is hostile allowing a user to respond *before* the first bite (an alert, icon, etc). Wolf did get scared off after taking damage, which is cool. A moment after the wolf attack, a mad rat appears as my first event, feeling rather anticlimactic after two far more threatening animal attacks.
(Day 5) - RAID - I'm attacked by Love, the Pirate. One of my two pawns is disabled from food poisoning. This new mechanic is MUCH better; less frequent and more impactful. My remaining pawn fights it off in melee and captures Love.
(Day 6) - RAID - A warrior is being chased and I take her in, fighting off the single raider. Things start to feel stable. I start to focus on base building and getting a power grid going.
(Day 11) - RAID - Colony has three pawns, attacked by a mad rat and raider at the same time. Rat goes for raider and dies; raider is dispatched easily with the aid of my newly gained warrior.
(Day 13) - Collins the Vet is recruited from prison; started taming alpacas. When taming it says, "named HIM Alpaca 1". I've noticed this recurring across the UI - "Gut worms in HIS stomach." It's weird that HIM/HIS is in all caps.
(Day 18) - I noticed the option to send items to a specific stockpile after completing a bill. That's an excellent feature. That's an excellent feature, but would be hugely improved if we had the ability to rename stockpiles. Finding "Steel Stockpile" in that list is easy, but having to identify and find "Stockpile 48" is tedious. Thanks Jimmy, it's already there; somehow I missed this for two years.
(Day 21) - RAID - Colony has four pawns, attacked by 3 pawns. Difficulty felt right.
(Day 32) - Some of my alpacas got plague. Extending disease to animals provides a nice layer of interaction to caring for them, making a "vet" pretty useful. With 10 skill doctor and only herbal medicine, one died, two survived, and three were unaffected to start. Feels right.
(Day 36) - RAID - A manhunter boomrat attacked as a dazed colonist wandered off toward it. Attempts to save him left two men down - it should have been one down, but I messed up. About half a day later, a raid occurs. I have 5 pawns: 1 pacifist, 2 down, and 2 with combat ability. There are five fairly strong attackers (bolt action rifles, shotguns, machine pistols). Just before they arrive, Love recovers from his wounds enough to stand up and fight poorly. Using the river, I manage to take down 2 before they close, but all three fighters are knocked out by shotguns. Raid difficulty jumped a bit there, but my colony had grown a lot in 15 days. I only died due to the combination of events. I'd say the balance feels really good in my short game. The pacing of raids felt like they're always a threat, but there were a few lulls which helped me make longer-term progress and deal with non-combat threats.
At this point, my base is on fire and pretty much everyone's been kidnapped, so I declare defeat and start a new game. So far all of the changes seem excellent. The balance seems tighter, the new art is awesome. My game isn't long enough for a major wealth graph, but it peaked at 21k before the final raid on day 36.
So far lots of nice little tweaks, my favorite is the zone manipulation. Started off naked twice and the first raider got me both times haha- really need a good shooter and crafter to start this scenario. How do you make tribalwear now? I didn't have the option at the crafting spot.
Also, a big thanks to the Ludeon team for listening to and seriously considering player feedback :)
Quote from: Malpractice on June 17, 2018, 02:32:04 PM
Cassandra Rough, Standard New Arrivals Start - Play Story / Feedback
(Day 18) - I noticed the option to send items to a specific stockpile after completing a bill. That's an excellent feature, but would be hugely improved if we had the ability to rename stockpiles. Finding "Steel Stockpile" in that list is easy, but having to identify and find "Stockpile 48" is tedious.
We have been able to rename stockpiles for a while now. Unless Im missing something here.
EDIT: I decided to file this as a bug report here (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41808). While it might not strictly be the kind of bug reports asked for, it is a feature in RimWorld itself, which allowed something in B18, which is gone in 1.0.
RimWorld 1.0 has completely destroyed ModCheck. The problem is the new patch loading code. It's not the fact that it changed, but more it changed in a way that I lost the ability to mod the patch loading process, meaning I can't update ModCheck to fix the problem.
The problem is Verse.LoadedModManager.LoadAllActiveMods().
foreach (PatchOperation current3 in LoadedModManager.runningMods.SelectMany((ModContentPack rm) => rm.Patches))
{
current3.Apply(xmlDocument);
}
The code itself is fine. The problem is I need to patch it with Harmony. However ModCheck calls Harmony from the mod class instantiation earlier in LoadAllActiveMods(). In order to use Harmony, it needs to be loaded before the patched method is called and as such it's not possible to mod LoadAllActiveMods.
Obvious solution: Move the loop to a new method.
Alternatively make a new method containing everything after the loop starting with: foreach (Type type in typeof(Mod).InstantiableDescendantsAndSelf())
This will give max modding freedom.
To be completely honest, I kind of like the old approach better. Now all files are merged into one and then the patches are applied one by one. In B18, all patches are applied to each file and then the patched files are merged. While it may be slower, the file by file approach provides the modname and filename of the file being patched and ModCheck reads that with Harmony. Not only can this be included in error messages, it can also be used actively by PatchOperation. I added ModCheck.FindFile (https://github.com/Nightinggale/ModCheck/wiki/FindFile), which takes two strings and compare them against the current mod and file names. It only returns true if both matches, meaning it can be used to avoid using XPATH searches on wrong files. When it applies just once, the file is significantly smaller. Animal mods often have one file for each animal, meaning Defs will contain just a single child, which should speed up XPATH searching. I have made performance tests with and without FindFile (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=36534.msg385709#msg385709), but not against RW 1.0. Still, since XPATH is by far the slowest part, I will assume the FindFile approach is significantly faster than the RW 1.0 approach.
Amazing changes. I'm currently testing out the features of 1.0. I can't complain about anything yet ( I'll update once my early game rounds up). Biggest thing I'm looking forward to is the difficulty increase and hopefully I'll feel it.
One big change that could offer a really rewarding experience is if the enemy could have a chance to detect traps and then find a different path so the temptation of a cheese maze of traps is gone. Also detection of a kill box meaning if they entered an area and died before finding cover they proceeded to find a different path. Feels like I accidently cheat the system by walling off my base and have to self correct the difficulty by putting rules on myself.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 17, 2018, 01:06:47 PM
Quote from: jchavezriva on June 17, 2018, 12:46:57 PM
By saying ludicrous cause issues with AI and other aspects of the game, you mean its worse than before? I personally did not find anything game breaking playing with ludicrous all the time. Not anything bad enough to be a bother at least.
I dont think so. He explained it several times in the past. Ludicrous breaks the game in some minor ways other than the massive memory and performance hit (which is pretty high tbh). For example, mortars in a siege might not be able to reach your base and thus making the event worthless. Caravans breaking mood cause of sleep deprivation cause they cant reach the exit in time, etc. Tynan said that the events arent balanced for a map this big and this might make the game unenjoyabe.
So with the requirement of having to explicitly enable the big maps, he makes sure that new players will at least try the game as he intends first, instead of making the possible mistake of playing the biggest map available cause "bigger is better and if its there is because i should play it".
400x400 map in the 64 bit version is working perfectly until now. No stuttering at all.
When caravans are forming now animals follow the colonists forming it. That should speed up the process enough to avoid that issue.
The thing regarding sieges is still a problem though. But its easy to fix...
Great news! I'll gonna test it as soon as I backup my mods and configs.
How's 1.0 performance wise? Any improvement?
First attempt at Cassandra extreme alone and naked. My colonist went on a berserker rage from eating raw meat. Didn't realize campfires require 3 construction even though a stove requires 0. Seems backwards to me tbh. Colonist was about to recover from mental break the visitor get closer, colonist wonders away from visitor then visitor opens fire and kills colonist. Not sure if that is intended either.
Starting up round two of perma death I'll post again if anything else looks buggy.
Not sure if it was previously this way, but small animal weights seem to be one magnitude more then they should be:
Domestic cats - 18Kg
Rats and squirrels - 10Kg
Hares - 14Kg
Quite a few much-appreciated QoL changes, and man that's a lot of reworks and balance changes. I'm interested to try it, and will reserve both positive and negative judgments until I do.
Colony lasted 68 days. Last major event was malaria on my only doctor after last one died. Then the plague hit the only other person who was aloud to do doctoring ( skill 2 ). Then a pack of manhunting squirrels attacked.
Personally I felt by design I had no chance to win. I suppose it is luck of the draw but I feel like disease is the worst possible event to have when you are poor and new. I'd prefer more stacks of 12 raiders than the plague.
O well will be starting on another map with a river again.
Second day ( Completed )
Bugs : I've identified the friendly fire mod in 1.0 lets you shoot side by side with an ally but bugged depending on the position of the enemy.
Friendly fire shot my character in a very clear cut approach that didn't start prior to raider making contact.
Strange Features: Way to many world event notifications early game. I can't even build everyone their own rooms yet let alone go save a down colonist or take on an outpost. Early trade missions would be more worth wild. Caravan distances are way decreased, 8 tiles away mission is less than a day ( I like this a lot).
-Food poisoning doesn't represent the stat indicated by character. .5% chance at food poisoning in a clean room resulted in 3 food poisonings in a row with more scattered through out.
-Exposing rotting corpse is a little weak of a extreme break risk. All they did was dig up 1 corpse and put it in a stock pile room where no one got to see it. They were off the mental break right after doing it so I could have the same person bury the corpse.
-60 days into the game and already 30 graves. Labor and land required to deal with this is insane. Cremation isn't even slightly viable of a research tech probably not even in the next 60 days.
Back Story
In game day 51.
My lovers break up due to a failed marriage proposal starting a huge mental debuff that can't be helped.
Random wonder joins colony. Nothing special but not a liability. I've decided to rebuild my entire half mountain base (bottom right corner of map). To the center of the map to utilize the bridge building mechanic. Extremely risky decision on this difficulty but so far the game feels very forgiving early on.
Since the AI loves attacking my air conditioning units first, I'm moving my fridge to the center of the base design with bedrooms/utility structures surrounding it. I'm throwing always any idea of a kill box in stead just going to add a few sandbags near doors to do flank pops. This base can't even be walled in because of the river so I've turned the difficulty up on myself by a lot.
During this base move I experienced 2 extreme mental breaks. My starting character decided he wanted to murder another. I accidently meleed him with the guy equipped with a gladius. He sustained way too many injuries and will die of infection this will result in me loosing my only cook, miner, warden and skilled doctor. The second extreme break the unearthing corpse.
Right after my starters death and a hide in room mental break a manhunter pack attacks. Two polar bears. 1 run and gun heroics managed to take him down but the river base is almost ready to be moved into now.
Since the this might be the turning point to where I lost. I wish I had made separate bedrooms sooner to avoid this.
With no herbal meds and best doctor has a skill of 1. The next raid hits me with 7 invaders. I only sustain bruises on my melee character but one of my guys shoots the doctor in the head for a minor injury. The amazing part is they all make full recoveries with no infections ( I like this part a lot). Starting to see hope again.
Short after recovering another refugee pops up. I decide to take it because I know my chances to progress without a doctor, herbal meds or even a grower that can grow herbal meds is slim. There turns out to be 12 raiders with guns. We are exiting winter now into the growing season. Careful kiting leads the fight with only 1 minor injury and the joining of a replacement DOCTOR YAY! Plus he can mine and a little bit of social. If I can move over to the new base extremely soon everything will be good.
** Real day 1 ** Archive
Alright 20 days into naked alone Cassandra extreme. I will just edit this post from now until they die. Bugs edited on top, strange features in middle and back story on bottom.
Bugs: Burying corpse labeled hauling corpse.
Enemy was attempting to fire at me in the missing corner of a square base. (maybe this is intentional)
Strange features: New berry bush design makes growing obsolete early on and grows just a little too fast since I can't eat them faster than they spawn.
Time gap between raids is over 1 season long making it feel more boring early game. I'd prefer less other events like toxic fall out, plague, mad animal herds early game and more mini raids personally.
***Most annoying strange feature*** You need some magic perfectly assigned work menu to stop colonist from deconstructing 1 floor at a time and hauling that one peace. Works the same with harvesting and mining if you want hauling high on a character.
Raiders always went for my fridges cooler and avoiding the semi kill box area I designed. If it is a bug I prefer it this way. It makes my raids more tactical because I have to go defend my base at multiple angles now.
Cover behind walls and shooting seems really really bugged. They won't peak out the sides like they did before. I don't like this because my favorite strategy was a melee in a doorway with 3 guys behind him with guns.
Back Story: Spawned in temperate forest with 30/60 with a river in temperate forest(needed some part to be easier). Building base half mountain half outside. Predators almost out numbered game animals included bears, cougars, wargs, lynx and foxes. Tactic has been wait till they get injured from hunting and shoot them till they will bleed out.
First raid was 1 guy with a gun, accidently made my character with only 2 crafting so I had to settle with a granite club. Very close fight but the club beats pistol. First two crash landed guys were too far to save 3rd joined my colony on the 20th day. No raids in over 15 days.
Second raid happened about 20ish days from the last and was weaker than first raid. 1 guy with a melee weapon. It didn't bother me that much that a trade group decided to kill him for me though. * Happy note my newest colonist become lovers with my first on her second day with us.
Day 30 a colonist asked for my help. Usually I am scared to take these missions but I wanted some excitement. I definetly got it. 5 raiders 2 with auto pistols 2 revolvers and 1 melee weapon. The raiders were actually pretty cleaver with thier tatics. They avoided me bating them to my sandbang defense area and started burning down my freezer. Victory was claimed with no damage on the base and very minor injuries. The guy obtained was amazing 12 shooting 12 research. First researcher to join the colony.
Day 32 third raid came in 4 primative raiders. I was well equipted to deal with them but again they hit the traders first.
There still too many leather types.
Luxury leathers could be rolled into one type.
Wools could also be combined into one and the same.
Missing from the change log: You can click Edit in the Research screen and re-arrange research projects. Seems like it would be useful if you have research from mods and want to have a clearer view. :)
Greetings!
I started playing the "unstable version"...... an escape pod dropped out of the sky at some point, and i could only CAPTURE the person, not RESCUE! Didnt it use to have both options? so i had to capture this person and make an extra room (prison conditions instead of just a bed / medical bed). a raider came, made him combat ineffective and had to imprison him too. so the non hostile survivor was "in restraints" in my living space basically....... i released them both after a while cause i didnt want to keep dealing with them, the cost they came with etc. i apologize if this is a useless post :D so glad 1.0 (unstable) is out congrats!!!
Wow, 1.0 is here! And with literal tons of different really nice features. I also see a lot of really useful musthave mod functionality added which will drastically improve gameplay. What great news!
I am really excited about most of the stuff i see.
Armor overhaul feels a lot more interesting, than simple damage reduction it was before.
Graphic change is absolutely fantastic.
Friendly fire rebalance is an amazing decision.
Incorporating functionality from variety of QoL mods - nice.
Sadly there are also some changes, that I feel are entirely unneeded. I mean as if steel wasn't consumed enough being a finite resource (i don't count traders, since they're irregular as hell), now we have to "reload" turrets using steel regardless of if they were blown up or not. And not 10-20 steel but 60. Moreover deep drills get another nerf, being slowed down and more expensive, while also having the potential of just wrecking you by spawning an infestation event. I like the risk of infestation, but nerf to speed imo is unneeded.
Animal changes: Why training decay and chance to go back to being wild? Mostly they aren't really useful enough to justify wasting food on anything other than huskies and now their usability is even more crippled and a training chance nerf over as well... They could use a buff instead imo. Wolves and boars not being able to haul breaks my heart. They're potentially dangerous waste of space to be disposed of instead of being useful now (;_;)
Item quality rebalance is fine, but I am a bit sad, that making masterworks is now quest only. I don't count inspirations as those usually happen on guys that can't craft anything useful at all and thus wasted. Also with how much time it takes to make any type of armor or weapon, its near impossible to finish it before inspiration ends. The only way to get some is to store some unfinished items with slivers of work left, hoping for inspiration to finish a bunch and hopefully get at least one masterwork, but that just feels cheesy and wrong.
Overall i am really hyped about 1.0 changes, but hold cautious hope that Rimworld will still grow and evolve even over 1.0 release. Its potential is truly limitless :)
Anyway to get beta build with the DRM free download?
"-Overhauled mental break probabilities. Aside from some exceptional cases, all mental breaks are more or less equally probable."
The amount of catatonic breaks im getting feels damn wrong. This should not be as common as wandering in sadness or locking yourself in your room.
Jesus Tynan... you never cease to amaze or produce. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Tynan! Big fan of the game, been playing a ton since Jan.
I'm loving the naked scenario, took a couple of notes of bugs/things that felt off.
Couple of problem with hand tailor bench - can't make tribalwear, there's no indication of if a bill doesn't have enough resources in stock
Relationship decline feels too fast, traded with a neutral (0 rep) tribe, and 2 months later I was negative from automatic draw down
The ally assistance feels ok, and I've been able to play around using them to tank early fights, but it seems like they fail to recognize threats sometimes (eg. manhunters) until they've already been attacked.
Food poisoning might need to be toned down a little bit, happens really often with simple meals and feels a bit too debilitating. I understand if this was intended, but the way it was in .18 felt more realistic.
Seems to be bugs around names/pronouns. For example, quest popped saying to save a characters brother, the message was "NAME is Plaxico's brother, NAME will join your colony..."
and "You have rescued NAME and HE has joined your group"
Couple of things from mods that'd I'd like to see implemented (I probably won't post super often after this, so I'll get my thoughts out here).
-refridgerators
-fishing
-run & fire, but only for light weapons...
-"haul urgently"
There were other mods I enjoyed, but those are the ones that I think were really fundamental. I removed all my mods to try out the naked scenario, and it's provided pros/cons.
I'm in the middle of the first summer with a tribal start on a tropical swamp with Cassandra Rough.
Bridges feel AWESOME. I don't know how they fit in power-wise, but they make building a decent base on a swamp actually possible. I haven't even checked how much they cost - you could double it and I would still feel great about them (N.B. I am playing on a map with plenty of wood).
I don't have a good animal handler, and the alpacas are staying far away from my base. So I haven't gotten a feel for the herding nerfs.
Sculpting seems to be much faster? I don't see it in the patch notes explicitly, but you allude to it being better. Anyway, I am filling the barracks with small wooden sculptures pretty easily.
I ran out of medicine because my grower couldn't plant healroot at the start. It's not a big deal because this map has year-round growing, but this would be difficult to recover from on a snowy map.
Item decay while outside was annoying at first, but not a big deal now that I have a separate indoor stockpile for items that actually matter. I've also designated a small stockpile in the lake for garbage. Nifty
I got a real chuckle reading some of the "flavorful randomized text" in social chat.
Two factions (Savage Tribe and Rough Outlander Union) both suddenly decided to dislike me more (-20 to -30) at the same time. The event explained that they revert to -80 over time, but this feels really artificial. It would feel more natural if they sent an occasional messenger demanding tribute, and then I could appease, refuse, or even attack the messenger.
Hello tynan! I got this error log and can't access to Unstable beta. hope this error log be used as data!
Mono path[0] = 'D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data/Managed'
Mono path[1] = 'D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data/Mono'
Mono config path = 'D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data/Mono/etc'
PlayerConnection initialized from D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data (debug = 0)
PlayerConnection initialized network socket : 0.0.0.0 55190
Multi-casting "[IP] 192.168.0.4 [Port] 55190 [Flags] 2 [Guid] 2608585299 [EditorId] 3664984983 [Version] 1048832 [Id] WindowsPlayer(Taeyoon) [Debug] 0" to [225.0.0.222:54997]...
Started listening to [0.0.0.0:55190]
PlayerConnection already initialized - listening to [0.0.0.0:55190]
Player data archive not found at `D:/SteamLibrary/steamapps/common/RimWorld/RimWorldWin_Data/data.unity3d`, using local filesystemInitialize engine version: 5.6.5f1 (2cac56bf7bb6)
GfxDevice: creating device client; threaded=1
Direct3D:
Version: Direct3D 9.0c [nvldumd.dll 23.21.13.8813]
Renderer: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
Vendor: NVIDIA
VRAM: 2017 MB (via DXGI)
Caps: Shader=30 DepthRT=1 NativeDepth=1 NativeShadow=1 DF16=0 INTZ=1 NULL=1 RESZ=0 SlowINTZ=0 ATOC=1 BC4=1 BC5=1
Begin MonoManager ReloadAssembly
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp-firstpass.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\Assembly-CSharp.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.UI.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.Networking.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\UnityEngine.Networking.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\NAudio.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\NAudio.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\NVorbis.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\NVorbis.dll into Unity Child Domain
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\TextMeshPro-1.0.55.56.0b11.dll (this message is harmless)
Loading D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\TextMeshPro-1.0.55.56.0b11.dll into Unity Child Domain
- Completed reload, in 0.044 seconds
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\System.Core.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\System.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\System.Xml.Linq.dll (this message is harmless)
Platform assembly: D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data\Managed\System.Xml.dll (this message is harmless)
WARNING: Shader Unsupported: 'Hidden/VR/BlitCopyFromTexArray' - Pass '' has no vertex shader
WARNING: Shader Unsupported: 'Hidden/VR/BlitCopyFromTexArray' - Setting to default shader.
<RI> Initializing input.
<RI> Input initialized.
desktop: 1920x1080 60Hz; virtual: 1920x1080 at 0,0
<RI> Initialized touch support.
UnloadTime: 2.781465 ms
RimWorld 1.0.1936 rev831
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:Log(Object)
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:48)
RimWorld.VersionControl:LogVersionNumber() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\Version\VersionControl.cs:83)
Verse.Root:CheckGlobalInit() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:82)
Verse.Root:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:38)
Verse.Root_Entry:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:16)
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 48)
INTERNAL_CALL_SetCursor can only be called from the main thread.
Constructors and field initializers will be executed from the loading thread when loading a scene.
Don't use this function in the constructor or field initializers, instead move initialization code to the Awake or Start function.
UnityEngine.Cursor:INTERNAL_CALL_SetCursor(Texture2D, Vector2&, CursorMode)
UnityEngine.Cursor:SetCursor(Texture2D, Vector2, CursorMode) (at C:\buildslave\unity\build\artifacts\generated\common\runtime\CursorBindings.gen.cs:39)
Verse.CustomCursor:Activate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\CustomCursor.cs:23)
Verse.PrefsData:Apply() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\PrefsData.cs:98)
Verse.Prefs:Apply() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\Prefs.cs:191)
Verse.Prefs:set_LangFolderName(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\Prefs.cs:86)
Verse.LanguageDatabase:LoadAllMetadata() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Localization\LanguageDatabase.cs:72)
Verse.PlayDataLoader:DoPlayLoad() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:99)
Verse.PlayDataLoader:LoadAllPlayData(Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:32)
Verse.Root:<Start>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:58)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
[C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Scripting/ScriptingThreadAndSerializationSafeCheck.cpp line 81]
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/CursorBindings.gen.cs Line: 39)
Exception from asynchronous event: UnityEngine.UnityException: INTERNAL_CALL_SetCursor can only be called from the main thread.
Constructors and field initializers will be executed from the loading thread when loading a scene.
Don't use this function in the constructor or field initializers, instead move initialization code to the Awake or Start function.
at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.Cursor:INTERNAL_CALL_SetCursor (UnityEngine.Texture2D,UnityEngine.Vector2&,UnityEngine.CursorMode)
at UnityEngine.Cursor.SetCursor (UnityEngine.Texture2D texture, Vector2 hotspot, CursorMode cursorMode) [0x00005] in C:\buildslave\unity\build\artifacts\generated\common\runtime\CursorBindings.gen.cs:39
at Verse.CustomCursor.Activate () [0x00001] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\CustomCursor.cs:23
at Verse.PrefsData.Apply () [0x0000c] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\PrefsData.cs:98
at Verse.Prefs.Apply () [0x00006] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\Prefs.cs:191
at Verse.Prefs.set_LangFolderName (System.String value) [0x00001] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Prefs\Prefs.cs:86
at Verse.LanguageDatabase.LoadAllMetadata () [0x000f9] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Localization\LanguageDatabase.cs:72
at Verse.PlayDataLoader.DoPlayLoad () [0x0002f] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:99
at Verse.PlayDataLoader.LoadAllPlayData (Boolean recovering) [0x00027] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:32
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError(Object)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:68)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:459)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)
Tried to use an uninitialized DefOf of type ShaderTypeDef. DefOfs are initialized right after all defs all loaded. Uninitialized DefOfs will return only nulls. (hint: don't use DefOfs as default field values in Defs, try to resolve them in ResolveReferences() instead)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogWarning(Object)
Verse.Log:Warning(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:58)
RimWorld.DefOfHelper:EnsureInitializedInCtor(Type) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\DefOf.cs:79)
RimWorld.ShaderTypeDefOf:.cctor() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\DefOf.cs:2479)
Verse.ThingDef:<PostLoad>m__3() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\ThingDef.cs:726)
Verse.ThingDef:<PostLoad>m__3() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\ThingDef.cs:723)
Verse.LongEventHandler:ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:489)
Verse.LongEventHandler:UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:402)
Verse.LongEventHandler:LongEventsUpdate(Boolean&) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:257)
Verse.Root:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:102)
Verse.Root_Entry:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:38)
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 58)
Could not execute post-long-event action. Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at Verse.GraphicData.Init () [0x0002d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:131
at Verse.GraphicData.get_Graphic () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:90
at Verse.ThingDef.<PostLoad>m__3 () [0x00028] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\ThingDef.cs:725
at Verse.LongEventHandler.ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished () [0x00036] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:489
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError(Object)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:68)
Verse.LongEventHandler:ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:493)
Verse.LongEventHandler:UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:402)
Verse.LongEventHandler:LongEventsUpdate(Boolean&) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:257)
Verse.Root:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:102)
Verse.Root_Entry:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:38)
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)
Could not execute post-long-event action. Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at Verse.GraphicData.Init () [0x0002d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:131
at Verse.GraphicData.get_Graphic () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:90
at Verse.ThingDef.<PostLoad>m__3 () [0x00028] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\ThingDef.cs:725
at Verse.LongEventHandler.ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished () [0x00036] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:489
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError(Object)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:68)
Verse.LongEventHandler:ExecuteToExecuteWhenFinished() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:493)
Verse.LongEventHandler:UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:402)
Verse.LongEventHandler:LongEventsUpdate(Boolean&) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:257)
Verse.Root:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:102)
Verse.Root_Entry:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:38)
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)
{after this, <Could not execute post-long-event action. Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object ~ (Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)> stuff is just Repeating itself.}
I really appreciate that a lot of my favorite mod features are now vanilla. It is a real salute to the work done by those modders.
I am slightly disappointed with the animal changes, but I get it. The animal kill army was a real easy button.
Do dormant hives spawned at map creation still attack as soon as it gets cold?
Does cleanliness of the kitchen affect food poison chance in 1.0 ? If so cleanliness should be highlighted in the "room-view (impressiveness). It is highlighted in a laboratory, but not in the kitchen. I´m confused :)
Awesome, thank you dev team! Reading through the change notes (and really savouring them!), these selected 4 items struck me as being changes that would impact my playstyle in particular --
-Frag grenades are no longer a valid hunting weapon << Very sad about this, as it was my fav way of dealing with Alphabeavers
-Settling very near another faction base will now cause faction relations loss every quadrum because of anger due to territorial encroachment << Makes sense. I always set up as close to another faction as I could to minimise travel (one free tile between). I have to balance that now. I wonder what a safe distance is?
--Sowing trees takes 8x longer. << Yikes! 8x? Tree sowing was already not fast so now... so slow.
--Healroot grow days 6.5 -> 12, sow and harvest work increased significantly. << I've had colonies really hanging on a thread of the healroot crop coming in, particularly early game in biomes where there isn't much or any. This change seems fairly harsh.
On saying that, I have not played 1.0 yet, only found out about it a few minutes ago, but I'm REALLY keen to get into the new Rimworld! Yay! I'll report back on my progress (or demise more likely).
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I've been reading carefully and we've got a new build going up with some fixes and balance changes.
Less predators, less raspberries, slower goodwill shift with other factions over time, a bunch more naming content, richer deep mining, and a variety of bugfixes. Oh, and the game will auto-use backstory translations even if the identifier numbers don't match exactly (because they change when the description does).
Much of this won't take effect until you start a new game.
Please keep feedback coming!
Clicking anywhere outside bill settings no longer close it.
Can we have b18 behavior back please.
https://i.imgur.com/zeeUCH8.png
Brief story of colony "Doomed 2". Naked Brutality ('cos - was not?), Cassandra Classic, Some Challenge. Temperate Forest with road, river and some hills. Decent distance away from other colonies.
Landed. Harvested some oversized berries first to have something to eat, then chopping down trees. Realized that it is actually liberating not to have to haul a bunch of crap as first thing to do. Made a nook by a mountain the base and roofed it and walled it, some steel there too as a bonus. Got a bed and table to eat at. Started a farm. There was a Lynx lurking about but it did me some favours and killed a few small animals but didn't fully eat them so I took what was left. Got a wood fired cooking table and butcher table going. A visitor came by and I quickly mined 2 silver to buy some basic meds and pemmican, not much though. They left. Things were looking ok. Then she ate a bad meal and got food poisoning, and a few moments later crashed on the floor, helpless. That was when the squirrel went mad, and circled the house but despite a door being open did not attack. When she recovered, the squirrel had disappeared.
Then, a Shaman called Tyspin was being chased and wanted refuge. I took him in - I needed more hands.. but this was not a good idea. He popped on the map and had clothes at least but was ... a go-juice addict and worse, non-violent. Ugh. Not what I needed. He could cook well and do most other things, so still might turn out ok, I was hopeful. Then the chaser appeared with ... an LMG in his hands. Oh dear. My starting pawn only had a club. I managed to lure him into my base for hand-to-hand but was pretty lame at melee and she went down early and got kidnapped. Down to this one non-violent go-juice addict Tyspin then. Not much time passed before the first real raid, and what could I do? I should have built traps I suppose, but I only think of that now. He got clubbed like the baby seal he was and my story ended.
So how was all this compared to previous versions? Starting naked and with nothing is supposed to be hard, and it was, to a point. I'm used to rich explorer so it seemed normal. That food poisoning is a bitch. Other than that, I noticed a few obvious changes, including some fantastic quality of life changes like being able to expand a zone just by clicking on it then the expand option is there. Pawns seem more efficient in general and need slightly less micro managing to get them to do what you want. I didn't get too far into the game, obviously, but from what I could see it was all good stuff, well done all involved. No bugs or issues seen. Want to get back into the next adventure!
Here is how it ended... https://photos.app.goo.gl/SpMe4PcVMd7TjrRQ9
Since you guys squished together leathers why not do the same for meats? Would cut down on the clutter a lot.
So instead of having 2 x squirrel meat and 73 x rat meat you now got 75 x rodent\animal meat. Was a spontaneous thought in the Discord server. Make a helluva lot of sense to me.
Quote from: ChJees on June 18, 2018, 07:06:07 AM
Since you guys squished together leathers why not do the same for meats? Would cut down on the clutter a lot.
So instead of having 2 x squirrel meat and 73 x rat meat you now got 75 x rodent\animal meat. Was a spontaneous thought in the Discord server. Make a helluva lot of sense to me.
I agree, it would make sense to divide if there were different bonuses for eating different meats.
Also, having lots of different types of meat makes it difficult to manage the nutrient paste dispenser since you have to manually remove the meat from the hopper if the number is lower than sufficient to make another nutrient meal.
An user posted this and I heavily agree with this small improvement:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/8rvshx/with_10_coming_soon_i_really_hope_this_annoying/
I also think that since the heavy blaster is like a sniper, it should be shaped sniper like... Like a long charge rifle. Instead of a potato.
So far in all my games between A16 and B18, I used to schedule the last hour before sleep for Recreation so that pawns who travel far for any purpose be it mining, foraging, wood cutting etc, would return "home" and "time" better their sleep. But since version 1.0 UN, I will have to figure another way around...because pawns are wandering off to map borders...which is both stupid and dangerous. Any raid will instantly catch my colonists. Please revert this behavior to older versions. Make it so that colonists avoid getting at least 25~50 tiles away from the map border or the white line that prohibits any further construction. This behavior is mindless and unwise.
What about hostile spacers from ancient ruins that keep attacking pawns and animals, destroying everything built by a player and when there's nothing left, they wander around the map? The problem is that they won't leave the map even if they starve.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 18, 2018, 08:55:58 AM
So far in all my games between A16 and B18, I used to schedule the last hour before sleep for Recreation so that pawns who travel far for any purpose be it mining, foraging, wood cutting etc, would return "home" and "time" better their sleep. But since version 1.0 UN, I will have to figure another way around...because pawns are wandering off to map borders...which is both stupid and dangerous. Any raid will instantly catch my colonists. Please revert this behavior to older versions. Make it so that colonists avoid getting at least 25~50 tiles away from the map border or the white line that prohibits any further construction. This behavior is mindless and unwise.
That could worthy of a bug report, though you haven't made the details clear. Maybe the pawn(s) 'wandered' off in a 'wandering' mental break. Or maybe an actual bug made them ignore their allowed area. I'm just guessing. Perhaps just upload a save file so we can see what's happening.
Tynan man love your game and what you're doing with it, I love it so much that I once worked in the Spanish translations, if you or the Spanish team still needs help I'm up for you but can you please remove the chance of bugs spawning when deep drilling? That's some scary stuff.
I meant "Wandering" as a Recreation/Joy when they are just walking around. Until B18, pawns would walk relatively close to the base. But now in V1.0 they are walking up to the map borders, in a very suicidal length. They must stay somewhat close.
I mean, until now, even if they went outside your city walls...they wouldn't go all the way out of the safe zone. This behavior I'm analyzing in Unrestricted, I never had a problem before...but now.
So, something that has some potential to be somewhat overpowered is the fact that flak pants can be worn underneath plate/power armour. Since the former occupies the OnSkin layer and the latter occupies the Middle and Shell layers, it'd be possible to achieve some insane resistance ratings for a character's legs.
This could easily be solved by having flak pants occupy the 'Middle' layer too, maybe.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 18, 2018, 10:11:05 AM
I meant "Wandering" as a Recreation/Joy when they are just walking around. Until B18, pawns would walk relatively close to the base. But now in V1.0 they are walking up to the map borders, in a very suicidal length. They must stay somewhat close.
I mean, until now, even if they went outside your city walls...they wouldn't go all the way out of the safe zone. This behavior I'm analyzing in Unrestricted, I never had a problem before...but now.
Nothing at all changed with how walking paths are generated, this is entirely random.
From my experience on the unstable build it seems as if some multicore rendering has been implemented into the final build of rimworld. Is this true?
Quote from: Hondamusprime on June 18, 2018, 10:37:03 AM
From my experience on the unstable build it seems as if some multicore rendering has been implemented into the final build of rimworld. Is this true?
I'm afraid not, but we did optimize stuff.
From user POV, optimizations are equivalent. Multithreading is just another type of optimization.
The assigning of workbenches to a specific colonists are great! However, it doesn't mentioned if someone is passionate or not. Perhaps a little flame icon next to the number?
As people have mentioned, the randomness of going between food binges, sad wander, and cataconic attack is a wee bit too much.
I am personally not a fan of the increased herbal med growth rate. You are pretty much at the mercy of RNG when it comes to wounds, and while we can take advantage of cover and the like, it feels to newb-unfriendly. Also, needing to rely on merchants for medicine is equally unreliable.
I support Ser Kitteh in that matter. Herbal medicine already isn't that good to begin with, but forcing you to go on without any kind of meds for longer is too harsh. Now that hp state of a weapon doesn't affect its accuracy especially, since pirates used to be missing all the time because their weapons are in crap condition. Now they hit more often.
Also -20% to all plant yields? All that does is forces us to have bigger fields, having less space for anything else left. On small maps its a problem. So why?
Quote from: Tynan on June 18, 2018, 10:40:52 AM
Quote from: Hondamusprime on June 18, 2018, 10:37:03 AM
From my experience on the unstable build it seems as if some multicore rendering has been implemented into the final build of rimworld. Is this true?
I'm afraid not, but we did optimize stuff.
From user POV, optimizations are equivalent. Multithreading is just another type of optimization.
I would call this great news. Vanilla is faster, but it still leaves idle CPU cores for mods to exploit. I think only one mod released for B18 actually use more than one core, but one means it's possible and who knows what we will see in the future. Also optimizing by using less CPU time to do the same will lower power usage while optimizing by using more cores will increase power usage. In other words RimWorld got more laptop/battery friendly.
What strikes me the most about the 1.0 changes is actually 64 bit. It's really annoying to have a game in B18, which grows to be so close to the memory limit that the game becomes unstable. It's my experience that I reach this point way before the CPU power becomes an issue.
So I just saved someone on an escape mod. And when I mean saved, I meant captured. Said person was one of my colonist's mother, and capturing her made me an enemy of one of the factions. I didn't realise this was so, because most escape pod pawns are not faction related. Was this changed recently?
EDIT: To go into more detail, I rescued her, put her on one of my medical beds, and she just up and left. Wanting to keep her, I arrested her and shoved her in the prison. THEN the faction becomes hostile. I am admittedly spoiled by Hospitality, and expected a "HECAP would like to join". Not aware if this is a bug or by designed, regardless, something to look into.
I will argue that the rescued pawn should say along the lines of "HECAP would like to join" like in Hospitality or "HECAP thanked you and is off his/her way". Now most of us have a million hours logged into the game, but a new player who doesn't understand the nuance will reasonably be confused at them not joining. Therefore a notification would be very welcomed.
This unstable branch should be viewed in two ways: the 10,000 hour veteran and the player who just picked it up. I think it would be worthwhile to imagine ourselves as the latter, and have gameplay design that is newb friendly.
I'll edit this post as I'm testing the development build with issues I have encountered:
v1.0.1938
- When I try to settle close to a village, there's a notification tab that relations with factions whose these close villages belong to will be worsened. It includes pirate bands, which is kinda useless as they're permanent hostile. I'd like this to be fixed, the notification about settling close to pirates is not needed (I only tested when I tried to settle with multiple villages, one of those included pirates; I don't know how it works with pirate villages alone).
- Naked brutality means naked brutality. No industrial research, please. We're supposed to begin from scratch.
- There's a glitch that if you decide to build a wall and then decide to put a door instead (I did it after resources were put on the wall, before building), it doesn't remove the wall. The trumpy colonist will build the wall first, then remove it and build a door.
- Mining with 0lvl skill is really, really, really slower than in B18. Is it intended? My pawn took like 2 hours to make a single hit on vein steel.
v1.0.1939
- Objects don't deteriorate despite being outside under the open sky.
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 18, 2018, 11:09:39 AM
What strikes me the most about the 1.0 changes is actually 64 bit. It's really annoying to have a game in B18, which grows to be so close to the memory limit that the game becomes unstable. It's my experience that I reach this point way before the CPU power becomes an issue.
Did i miss that somewhere in the changelog? My version s still 32 bit, though. At least for Windows.
UPD: found a shortcut in game files. Holy shit. Damn. This alone makes it the best mod-friendly update for Rimworld! Now I can ditch my Linux and play on Windows only finally. Hurray.
Quote from: tiagocc0 on June 18, 2018, 07:19:01 AM
Quote from: ChJees on June 18, 2018, 07:06:07 AM
Since you guys squished together leathers why not do the same for meats? Would cut down on the clutter a lot.
So instead of having 2 x squirrel meat and 73 x rat meat you now got 75 x rodent\animal meat. Was a spontaneous thought in the Discord server. Make a helluva lot of sense to me.
I agree, it would make sense to divide if there were different bonuses for eating different meats.
Also, having lots of different types of meat makes it difficult to manage the nutrient paste dispenser since you have to manually remove the meat from the hopper if the number is lower than sufficient to make another nutrient meal.
It does make sense to make much fewer meats at least. Regular, insect, human. It isn't like the recipes differentiate it anyway. At least when the leathers were separate it is because you could not mix and match, but that has never been the case between different animal meats.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 18, 2018, 11:37:49 AM
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 18, 2018, 11:09:39 AM
What strikes me the most about the 1.0 changes is actually 64 bit. It's really annoying to have a game in B18, which grows to be so close to the memory limit that the game becomes unstable. It's my experience that I reach this point way before the CPU power becomes an issue.
Did i miss that somewhere in the changelog? My version s still 32 bit, though. At least for Windows.
UPD: found a shortcut in game files. Holy shit. Damn. This alone makes it the best mod-friendly update for Rimworld! Now I can ditch my Linux and play on Windows only finally. Hurray.
If you click the "Play" button while in your Steam library, it also brings up an option box to select 32 or 64 bit. So Steam overlay and the like runs that way, think people who were just linking to the 64 bit executable were not getting the Steam overlay and possibly no Steam screenshot functionality.
Ah, well, i just use my desktop shortcuts and i also absolutely don't care for added steam fucntionality, so its all fine. I just didn't see the promt about 64 bit, because i used old shortcut. But damn. Finally no memory restriction. How nice.
I just read log from taming wild monkey. It has refused to go back to community. Dunno if this is supposed to show for totally wild animals.
Since you put a lot of QoL functions from mods into game, could you add alert about pawns/animals being hunted?
I started a new colony yesterday. (Day 39 - Phoebie Chillout - Easy)
Really like the new windmill. It offers a solid source for electricity early on. And you don't need to worry about batteries and shortcuts for some time. Small suggestion here: How about giving underwater cables a bit more hp? They cost eight times as much and are probably thicker and better insulated. ;)
In general I always try to have some sort of livestock (for immersion and food), this time I tried pigs, but when there is only a female version on sale, it can take quite a while to find a partner for her.
Then lab, same problem here. Merchant even had two male versions.
I guess gender distribution is pretty much random, but this makes it hard to start breeding.
Then at some point a tamed herd of chickens appeard so I guess I will be doing that. But in the end, it is not what I wanted.
Chickens are also very fragile and not that easy to handle. They eat quite a lot of gras, and when you increase their area, the eggs will be all over the place. Too bad they don't use their sleeping spots for laying eggs. (maybe I should try building some sleeping boxes...)
I just had a bear attack one of my pigs. Not sure if this was a new fleeing behaviour but the bear appeared to be more skittish once I start shooting at him. He stopped biting my pig and fleed out of range, then after a few seconds he started to forget what happened an was coming back for miss piggy.
pew pew again, he ded.
Overall this felt better than having to deal with a bear that is in terminator mode ignoring everyting what's going on around him. I liked it.
Winter is coming (septober), I hope there will be snow. Also, atm all trees are still greenish. Shouldn't they change their color at some point? (Edit: They start getting yellow at around 12th septober)
Edit: I just formed my second caravan to rescue someone. My colony has 7 members.
The first mission was ambushed by 4 well armed raiders. They attacked from almost every side, while my colonists where right in the middle of the map without much cover.
Was a bit brutal but I managed to down 2 while the other raiders fled.
In the end I lost one of my colonists due to an infection. The rescued survivor was catatonic for 3-4 days so I had to stay there quite long. Another colonist helped out with medicine and food but help came to late for the infection.
Next time I make sure I have sleeping bags and good medicine with me.
I also wasn't sure if I can form the caravan when someone is incapable of walking so probably staying so long was a bit unnecessary.
It all seemed like an easy retrieval because it was only 0.4 days away from me.
Fingers crossed this next map isn't a trap...
Edit2: Oh great, he is an luci addict and automatically joined the colony once I approached.
Yeah as someone said before, would be nice to have meats done same way leathers are now. Its essentially the same thing, save for human meat and insect meat which give moodlets. So it'd be good if we could just have 3 kinds - meat, human flesh and insect meat. That would hugely help freezer cluttering for sure.
I like the way armor completely deflects a shot now. I didn't notice if there was any knockback on an armor block but it might be a good balance. Even a blocked bullet imparts kinetic energy.
I got to experience the new scythers. I opened a vault and found a blade and lancer inside. The blade immediately tried to chase down my colonists and died. The lancer just hung out in the vault, even when I popped in and shot it. Eventually I sent my colonists to bed and dealt with it in the morning.
I think stack sizes need to be bigger. 75 is way too low I think.
Gotta play some more when Im back for work but so far
Im loving the armor reflection
Allys factions
graphics looks cleaner
Some mental debuff looks like they are stacking(im gonna double check )
Overall feels like a solid 1.0 update, any plans for after you complete/launch ships going back to world selection or perhaps another random world generated for a somekind of endless mode?
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 17, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
Obvious solution: Move the loop to a new method.
Done. I've actually function-ized a lot of things in that function, both for readability reasons and for modability reasons. Let me know if this doesn't do the job, but I think it will.
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 17, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
To be completely honest, I kind of like the old approach better. Now all files are merged into one and then the patches are applied one by one. In B18, all patches are applied to each file and then the patched files are merged. While it may be slower, the file by file approach provides the modname and filename of the file being patched and ModCheck reads that with Harmony. Not only can this be included in error messages, it can also be used actively by PatchOperation.
In general, I think you might be the exception here; most modders weren't doing anything of that sort, and we kinda have to cater to the common case over the uncommon case.
However, as part of the unified XML generation, we also generate a big dictionary from XmlNode to mod information, and that can be used to figure out which XmlNodes are part of what mod or file. I've made sure this dictionary is passed into the new ApplyPatches() function; we're not using it for any of our own functionality, but it's available for any optimizations you want to make with it.
Edit: This will be in the next build, unless Tynan is doing a build right now (he might be), in which case it'll be in the build after the next build.
I think that it would be best for in the finished version for us to know the skills and traits of those we are taking in when an event like "Refugee chased" or "Call for help" hits and scale the colonists to be worth it. As a small colony you have to turn down everyone because it's just not worth the risk of getting someone with an addition, non-violent, or a wimp.
Greetings uncle Tynnan,i have 1 question:
Will i lose my unstable savegames when 1.0 will be done?
** I'm gonna stop updating this post now *** It is probably way to buried now to be read.
3rd Attempt at Cassandra extreme naked. Temperate forest 40/60. Map type small hills, ancient asphalt roads and huge river. I'll list bugs on top, things that felt strange in the middle and story on bottom. I'll condense story a lot more this time. This post will be updated until they die.
Bugs:
(Maybe) Colonist will path through river water when hunting. They path around water when they already got the wet debuff even if there is a ridiculously shorter path.
Strange: Can't toggle off things that need refueling. Making me waste trips or deconstruct them.
-Watermill... I love it soo much but it is brokenly op. Constant 1400 volts in a very compact space. I see no reason to ever build a windmill. Maybe solar panels when I need to power turrets.
-Quality of escaped refugees way better. I extremely extremely approve.
Backstory
Huge river came with a nice bridge from the road. Goal is to use no kill box at all but walls in attempt to funnel them into the river to attack. Wander joined on 14th day, incapable of violence...
15th day in first raid vs a single guy with a gun. Turkey goes man hunter at same time. Resulting in an infection from wounds.
Second raid and a boar and alpaca self tamed between days 20-23. Meteorite landed on my house after I finally got one built...
Day 43 Accepted a escaped prisoner, super good guy. Turned out to be 8 really well armed guys. 1 incendiary launcher. My machine gun pistols gave me the ability to fire a round and hide before getting shot. They hit 3 traps I laid in cover spots around corners eventually. That was the most fun fight I've ever had in rimworld. Shortly after the fight toxic fallout... Most annoying event in game.
Day 46 small weak raid of 7. Died before touching me.
Day 48 I did my first rescue colony caravan trip. 1 gun scyther. Got really lucky and scyther missed 4 shots before dieing. The person I rescued was good enough to be useful but gained two infections. That barely barely got ahead before getting home. Personally I think the risk reward of the entire situation was perfect.
Day 55 Raid, I thought it was 5 but turns out to be like 10-14 people in 3 different groups (tribals). They came from two different corners of the map. Really threw me off but it was successful with very minor injuries.
Day 60(day my last attempt failed) All essentials to a productive base are built (hospital, prisoner, barn, dining/rec ect). 8 chickens joined randomly. Moods are through the roof and now I am just scrambling to think of improvements.
Day 65 - 20-30 boomrat manhunter pack attack. Able to kill them with minmal damage to base. Colonist sustained moderate damage. This event probably would of ended the campain for people not ready for extreme difficulty. It was also at least 3 times harder to deal with than raids.
Day 69 raiders very weak (4 with daggers and the 2 with guns were awful quality). Died so fast without even needing much strategy...
Day 77 Raider group of 8 very well armed. Shotguns, grenades, lauchers. 1 colonist went cadontonic prior because loosing her lover that died in a world quest I failed to complete >.>. I thought I was doomed but the grenader accidently injuried a lot of his men. Won it without any major injuries and captured my first prisoner.
My temperate forest maps are having a hard time keeping grass around. I've also noticed that the grass is less dense at the start of the game. I reverted back to .18 and generated a temperate forest map and almost every tile had grass. In 1.0 grass is very sparse at the start and is quickly eaten.
Just got a "Chased Refugee" who is an "Exotic Chef"...only that he doesn't cook... ... ...
(https://i.imgur.com/1KxZBKY.png)
I'd have to agree combining all meats together would be a good idea, though not in the same simplistic way others are saying of just meat, human flesh and insect meat.
Instead, I'd say that combining meat from rodents into rodent flesh, beast flesh (Warg, Wolf, Dog, Cat/Big cats etc) into one, Cattle flesh (Cows, Pigs, Muffalo etc) into one and Avian flesh (Chicken etc) into one is a better idea, I think that just having animal flesh is too simple and boring for a game like this but thats just my opinion.
(Thrumbo meat (Its own unique type, maybe with a unique texture?) could be a higher mood buff like +5 because its so hard and rare to get?)
Taking that further, you could attach different thoughts to eating each raw/cooked (Cattle flesh/Avian flesh giving a slight increase (+2), beast flesh being neutral (0) and rodent flesh giving a slight decrease (-2) to thoughts. Human flesh and Insect flesh could/would remain the same.
Hope that's of some use to you guys and girls on the dev team :)
(Editted to add something I just thought of after sending)
Tynan, you're the best developer! I'm speechless
:) :)
Healroot now takes 10 days instead of 15. I find this more reasonable, as those 30 meds would last a considerable time and allow herbal meds to be grown. I appreciate the change. :)
EDIT: Okay I just found out that Glitterworld meds have become Ultratech meds. I am not a fan. Glittertech meds, sure. Glitter meds, also fine. Just don't get rid of the Glitter! It's such a Rimworld thing! When I see Glitter, I think Rimworld because of its connotations. So please, keep the Glitter name.
EDIT2: Forbid command doesn't work on structures, so I can't build a ton of walls and use forbid to hold it off. Please allow not yet to build things be forbidable.
Similar to Yoshidas post, I recently got a "shooting frenzy" inspiration for a pawn who ironically has very little shooting skill. That I find a little odd, shouldn't inspirations affect already established skills, i.e. 6 with a flame? I feel like just ignoring the inspiration because the skill is so low.
Since Mr. Tynan asked for feedback on Recreation:
My colonist (I'm starting with one: although not the new scenario, because that's too rough!) doesn't want to do Solitary Relaxation after I build a Horseshoe Pin, even if his tolerance for Gaming is at 70%+ and his tolerance for Solitary Relaxation is at 20%. He'll still use the Horseshoe Pin, and if I uninstall the pin, he'd rather go work than meditate or pray, despite the fact that he's currently set to "Anything" and he's completely "Recreation-starved." I have a climate controlled bedroom for him, so temperature shouldn't be a problem.
EDIT: Even while his schedule is set to Recreation, my dude still refuses to pray/meditate.
Could we get a means to designate a spot for our colonists to pray/meditate? Maybe with an upgrade to a leather/cloth "Relaxation Mat"?
Some colonists just don't do praying/meditation, but going for walks and cloudwatching fulfill the same recreation type.
Thanks for the speedy reply.
Is there an easy way to tell beforehand that a colonist won't meditate/pray? Because that's a pretty severe debuff: it's a lot easier to heat an indoor space than to get better clothing.
I saw that monkeys have advanced trainability, but can't haul. Could we get another line, that would tell us about usefulness of animal, instead of it's intelligence? And still can't set all pawns to area 1 with one click.
There has always been an issue with Colonists preferring horseshoes (or hoopstones for tribals) instead of chest, TV or poker. I think this is a long time bug instead of a new thing. I think it would be best if Colonists preferred or are able to time chess/poker sessions more accurately.
Quote from: YoruOokami on June 18, 2018, 09:10:58 PM
I'd have to agree combining all meats together would be a good idea, though not in the same simplistic way others are saying of just meat, human flesh and insect meat.
Instead, I'd say that combining meat from rodents into rodent flesh, beast flesh (Warg, Wolf, Dog, Cat/Big cats etc) into one, Cattle flesh (Cows, Pigs, Muffalo etc) into one and Avian flesh (Chicken etc) into one is a better idea, I think that just having animal flesh is too simple and boring for a game like this but thats just my opinion.
(Thrumbo meat (Its own unique type, maybe with a unique texture?) could be a higher mood buff like +5 because its so hard and rare to get?)
Taking that further, you could attach different thoughts to eating each raw/cooked (Cattle flesh/Avian flesh giving a slight increase (+2), beast flesh being neutral (0) and rodent flesh giving a slight decrease (-2) to thoughts. Human flesh and Insect flesh could/would remain the same.
Hope that's of some use to you guys and girls on the dev team :)
(Editted to add something I just thought of after sending)
Overcomplication does not necessarily make something better. There are three meat categories already (neutral meat, rancid/insect meat and tabooed/human meat) and that is enough. Merging them changes nothing except saving storage space.
Winter rolls around.
My Freezer is filled with potatoes.
And every. single. creature. came inside and ate almost half of it.
Before they just left, but seeing every boomalope laser running to my freezer? That's bad.
Number of falling ship chunks feels off.
I wanted to keep my tribal colony on medieval tech level... it is day #108 and I got 145 components just from dismantling ship chunks (not counting ~20 components that I lost in some incident). Isn't it too much?
Quote--Rice, strawberries, healroot, corn, cotton min fertility 50% -> 100%.
This doesn't accurately reflect the current state. PlantBase has a fertilityMin of 70% (as does Corn, explicitly and redundantly), but no plant has a minimum fertility requirement higher than that.
Minor nitpick aside, this is a good release! My favourite QoL enhancements include the re-ordering of colonists portraits, paintables and cycling through alerts. I've wanted that last one since forever!
EDIT:
What's up with pawns using their ranged weapons in fist fights? They actively fire their guns, even when told to melee attack. Intentional or bug?
Quote from: Mehni on June 19, 2018, 05:23:24 AM
Quote--Rice, strawberries, healroot, corn, cotton min fertility 50% -> 100%.
This doesn't accurately reflect the current state. PlantBase has a fertilityMin of 70% (as does Corn, explicitly and redundantly), but no plant has a minimum fertility requirement higher than that.
I was already wondering about that one, it seemed odd.
In general what is written in the patch notes seems really good. The bigger changes I cannot really judge yet, but the QoL stuff includes many things I have in my game via mods in B18, or things that annoyed me because there is no mod for it. Examples: Smoothing walls (mod exists), Opportunistic hauling (mod exists, but I used different ones), doctors draw medicine from the same stack (GOD WAS THAT ANNOYING).
Quote from: Mihsan on June 19, 2018, 05:16:11 AM
Number of falling ship chunks feels off.
I wanted to keep my tribal colony on medieval tech level... it is day #108 and I got 145 components just from dismantling ship chunks (not counting ~20 components that I lost in some incident). Isn't it too much?
For the rest of us that want to be the bionic overlords components don't come fast enough. I think the chunks are fair atm and for your type of gameplay they should just be seen as a thing to sell for wealth.
While trying to update one of my mods i came across the fact TexPath was changed to TexturePath so i did a solution wide swap for those 2 nodes. now it tells me some texpaths are empty or null, which is true because i changed them all. is there a reason that not all Defs use TexturePath now or is it an actuall bug because you forgot to take out some of the texpaths?
Quote from: Tynan
--Shield belt cost (3x component, 60x plasteel, 5x uranium ) -> (2x component, 50x steel, 10x plasteel). Production time to 50% of current.
If it doesn't need uranium anymore why does it now require 10 uranium to build now, was there a typo /bugor was this part unintended. The recipe for it rn is 2 component, 50steel, 20 platsteel and 10uranium
I have two problems with the new build playing without any mods. I forgot the second because it must not be important, the first though has been severely bothering me.
It takes freaking forever to smooth a wall now. Two pawns with 6 construction, one smoothing walls and one smoothing the floor. The floor of a 6x6 room is done before the second, SECOND wall is 1/3 of the way done. I love smoothing walls and making bases in mountains and hills but this is obscene, when it is faster to remove it all and rebuild it.
Edit* I remembered the second, it took me 4 days to build a wood door to a base because an ibex kept walking through it.
Is there a section with the 1.0 unstable patch notes? I see we're on 1.0.1939 and it's helpful to verify items on the patch notes are indeed fixed or working as desired.
Just lost a playthrough on Cassandra rough, lost a colony in a temperate plains biome.
From the very beginning I had a colonist with a high animals skill so I figured i'd try to build an army of animals to defend myself. Unfortunately having one colonist out of three tied up managing animals constantly caused a massive labour shortage in my colony. There were constantly things needing to be done and never enough hands to do them. Eventually this labour shortage led to serious morale problems, after a harsh raid in which every colonist was wounded one of my pawns snapped and decided to murder my best pawn, we grouped up by the doorway and beat her when she came in, but unfortunately the scuffle ended up with two of my pawns developing infections, effectively putting them both out of play as they had to bed rest in hopes of surviving the infection. This further compounded the labour storage and soon my potatoes were ready to harvest, but there was no one to harvest them, no one was cutting wood to build anything because everyone was busy with other vital tasks and my beastmaster seemed to prioritize taming wild animals over tame ones so I simply ended up with an army of untrained useless muffalo, alpaca and boar. Eventually a raid came, about 6 raiders armed to the teeth with SMGs and the like. My colonists, comparatively were armed with nothing but survival rifles, pistols and knives. My best fighter was out of play due to food poisoning so it was up to my brawler and another colonist to repel the army. Needless to say it went horribly, my brawler positioned herself behind the herd of sleeping animals and attempted to use them as a distraction, when the firing started they ran in every direction, and while they did successfully manage to draw some fire the herd never attacked as my beastmaster never trained any of them. The raiders were simply too well equipped for my colonists to fight, especially with our best fighter unconscious in bed. They downed every animal in the colony and kidnapped 2 colonists, leaving only one colonist, sick in bed and starving because of his gut worms.
Quote from: Lech on June 19, 2018, 02:07:52 AM
I saw that monkeys have advanced trainability, but can't haul. Could we get another line, that would tell us about usefulness of animal, instead of it's intelligence? And still can't set all pawns to area 1 with one click.
That reminds me of a scene from hangover: https://youtu.be/pHhF3pAtC9M?t=49s
It seems odd that wood has a better blunt resistance and heat resistance than steel. Last time I checked, metal is better against fire than something that's clearly flammable.
I see a new patch has come out. Wished I said this bit earlier:
When placing a blueprint for a sunlamp, it would be nice to see the outline of the light. I'm designing a hydroponics room while pausing and it's an equal annoyance to not remember the light outline.
EDIT: Also should mention, colonists hang around campfires that are dead. Whether that's a bug or not, well you do you Tynan.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 19, 2018, 11:36:20 AM
I see a new patch has come out. Wished I said this bit earlier:
When placing a blueprint for a sunlamp, it would be nice to see the outline of the light. I'm designing a hydroponics room while pausing and it's an equal annoyance to not remember the light outline.
Great tool (originally by Zhentar, now Rock5 has most recently updated it for B18, hopefully 1.0 soon!): https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=37177.msg382006#msg382006
Would love to see somthing like that in vanilla, but hey as long as the mod sticks around... all good!
What makes me sad is that the scenario editor didn't learn the alphabet even in version 1.0!
Makes it always a bit annoying to search for the Single Animal Insanity incident which I hate and always disable.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 19, 2018, 11:18:32 AM
It seems odd that wood has a better blunt resistance and heat resistance than steel. Last time I checked, metal is better against fire than something that's clearly flammable.
Heat resistance is how much heat it transfers, and wood is a very good insulator. What you mean is flammability.
Anybody knows when would we play on stable version?
Excellent update on the whole, enjoying the rebalace!
Funny little bug I just encountered: wanted to try out the new randomize button for colony names, got a random name that I wanted to keep, but was too long:
https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ (https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ)
'Fraid I didn't check exactly how long it was before clicking away - a limit to the name generator will probably do the trick.
I can double click wild berries to select them all on the screen, could I do the same with wild healroots, please?
Quote from: ZorbaTHut on June 18, 2018, 02:27:48 PM
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 17, 2018, 03:25:19 PM
Obvious solution: Move the loop to a new method.
Done. I've actually function-ized a lot of things in that function, both for readability reasons and for modability reasons. Let me know if this doesn't do the job, but I think it will.
While I haven't actually coded anything yet, I see no reason why I would be prevented from doing anything I plan to do. In fact the current build appears to offer the most modder friendly design of LoadAllActiveMods() ever provided by RimWorld. Great job.
Quote from: Ulvaar on June 19, 2018, 12:49:38 PM
Excellent update on the whole, enjoying the rebalace!
Funny little bug I just encountered: wanted to try out the new randomize button for colony names, got a random name that I wanted to keep, but was too long:
https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ (https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ)
'Fraid I didn't check exactly how long it was before clicking away - a limit to the name generator will probably do the trick.
This really should be in the bug report subforum. Apart from that, remember if touching the limit to the colony name, that name is the default name for savegames. It would be nice if the limit to savegame names is longer than colony names, allowing suffixes to your savegame names without deleting from the colony name.
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 19, 2018, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: Ulvaar on June 19, 2018, 12:49:38 PM
Excellent update on the whole, enjoying the rebalace!
Funny little bug I just encountered: wanted to try out the new randomize button for colony names, got a random name that I wanted to keep, but was too long:
https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ (https://imgur.com/Yl3dHNJ)
'Fraid I didn't check exactly how long it was before clicking away - a limit to the name generator will probably do the trick.
This really should be in the bug report subforum. Apart from that, remember if touching the limit to the colony name, that name is the default name for savegames. It would be nice if the limit to savegame names is longer than colony names, allowing suffixes to your savegame names without deleting from the colony name.
Reported that yesterday.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41813.0
In case you want to add your input to that bug report.
Just finished reading the patchnotes & accompanying 3 pages of notes. Well done Tynan & team!!
However, one glaring omission I spotted almost instantly: still no prosthetic noses/ears/scar removal? Or has the social insult for being disfigured been removed?
A small problem is that if you dont post the changes between builds and you just edit the first page, we cant tell what has been changed and what to test.
Found a unfinished description :P.
Cochlear implant description: text_todo
Quote from: Alenerel on June 19, 2018, 12:25:31 PM
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 19, 2018, 11:18:32 AM
It seems odd that wood has a better blunt resistance and heat resistance than steel. Last time I checked, metal is better against fire than something that's clearly flammable.
Heat resistance is how much heat it transfers, and wood is a very good insulator. What you mean is flammability.
Interestingly, there's some IRL parallel to this depending on context. Sometimes steel beams will fail structurally from fire before wooden ones, since the additional heat allows them to deform under the weight, whereas the wooden one actually has to burn first.
Then again, it's pretty near impossible to set steel on fire under normal scenarios, even with the weapons that ignite stuff in the game.
Was this "unable to manually capture" bug in B18? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-1qgIhNx_o 27:27. I think its because he cleared a prisoner's room to non-prisoner. I'll wait for 1.0 to actually come out.
Havent yet played 1.0, reading log:
-Removed tornado incident - good idea, no counter, was bad design and we all knew it. Reason: not fun.
-Removed "Green thumb" trait - always loved it, very fun trait, idk why remove. Great fit for the game <3 Restore please, very in-flavour with the game.
-Masterwork/legendary items are extra hard to craft - generally you can now only get them by inspiration - grinding it is then :(
-Mechanoids now always destroy anything they drop (including minigun, which was previously recoverable) - So why do they exist at all, seems like digital suffering with no benefit? No good imo :(
-scyther (close combat specialist) - I predict digital suffering, since they were already deadly to colonists but could be prevented with some cover. How to prevent a mechanoid melee fighter early on? Losses that can't be countered I assume.
-Double sleeping spot - very not needed. Why bother? :p
-Great memory - slower skill decay - fortunately I use the remove decay mod, else its not fun to play. Should be an option in the game for that.
-Turrets now require "barrel change" after firing a lot. - feels like repetition on existing things.
Tons of changes, lots of work done, still wish the above would be changed.
Quote from: Julia on June 19, 2018, 08:01:35 PM
Havent yet played 1.0, reading log:
-Removed "Green thumb" trait - always loved it, very fun trait, idk why remove. Great fit for the game <3 Restore please, very in-flavour with the game.
-Masterwork/legendary items are extra hard to craft - generally you can now only get them by inspiration - grinding it is then :(
-Mechanoids now always destroy anything they drop (including minigun, which was previously recoverable) - So why do they exist at all, seems like digital suffering with no benefit? No good imo :(
-Double sleeping spot - very not needed. Why bother? :p
-Turrets now require "barrel change" after firing a lot. - feels like repetition on existing things.
1. It was random and useless unless it was your grower. Better have a proper trait than this wasting space.
2. You had 3% chance with a level 20 to craft a legendary. It was grinding too. I know cause I always went for legendary beds and legendary statues.
3. Why exist what? Miniguns and blasters are craftable.
4. If you play tribal you would know. At least me, I first rush microelectronic basics and a bunch of stuff, then beds. Having couples in this situation was not ideal.
5. He made a whole post explaining why.
I've noticed today that deconstruction of some things doesn't yield any resources. For example, if you refuel a campfire and then deconstruct it then you can get nothing back.
Anyway, this seems to be working as intended, but if that's the case I think it would be nice if the player knows in advance that they're not going to get anything back when they deconstruct those particular things.
@Julia: Green Thumb isn't really needed any more because colonists who have a passion for doing a particular kind of job will now get a nice mood buff when they do that job.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 19, 2018, 08:36:45 PM1. It was random and useless unless it was your grower. Better have a proper trait than this wasting space.
We really should have a trait/background story overhaul. We already had somebody complaining about a chef who is unable to cook.
Quote from: MarvinKosh on June 19, 2018, 08:39:45 PM@Julia: Green Thumb isn't really needed any more because colonists who have a passion for doing a particular kind of job will now get a nice mood buff when they do that job.
Good point. It would have been nice if the changelog mentioned it's replaced and not just removed.
Can we revert the sprite for the wind turbine? It is objectively uglier now!
Quote from: Alenerel on June 19, 2018, 08:36:45 PM
1. It was random and useless unless it was your grower. Better have a proper trait than this wasting space.
2. You had 3% chance with a level 20 to craft a legendary. It was grinding too. I know cause I always went for legendary beds and legendary statues.
3. Why exist what? Miniguns and blasters are craftable.
4. If you play tribal you would know. At least me, I first rush microelectronic basics and a bunch of stuff, then beds. Having couples in this situation was not ideal.
5. He made a whole post explaining why.
1. As someone said - replaced by passionate working moodlet, which is nice. So yeah its fine.
2. 3% chance is huge compared to close to no% chance. You had to grind it with 3%. Now you can only either do quests via traveling which has potential of utterly ruining a run and not offering you a thing you want or you have to rely on inspirations... Good luck getting those legendary beds with your inspired one-armed janitor in one day's time. If you do get it - you should go play roulette, you'll definitely be rich.
3. True - i don't see why making mechanoids die on being downed is making them useless\no fun. They're an enemy to be feared. Melee ones can be kited, other ones sniped. All fine.
4. I guess for tribals sleeping spots would be kind of useful... Though playing tribal run is pure suffering.
5. Even with that explanation, i don't see a point in adding a huge steel sink, while not adding a reliable way of getting more. The most consumed resource in the game gets even more consumed. Whats the point? Making people not use turret based killboxes? Dream on.
I have been texting v1.0 and have found it a big change in difficulty. Lowered difficulty to Some Challenge and managed to wipe after a few hours.
I had a 5 person colony with 3x malaria and after 20 min or so one pawn got the flu. After being sick a short while 2 patients decided to go berserk and destroyed the colony.
Having non combatants going berserk needs to end.
The food poisoning effects seem a bit much. Bed ridden during a caravan. If someone attacks my caravan I am going to get up and fight. Total incapacitation is a bit too far.
Animals are still doing drugs and drinking alcohol.
This is why he said theorycrafting is 100% pointless. Just play the game before assuming the new scythers are op.. I just had a colonist win a 1 on 1 fight with a scythe with a shotgun vs his melee damage. The other colonist used a shotgun to take on two of them at 1 tile away range on the ranged ones. You aren't going to like trying to out snipe a scythe but you can definitely. Kite kill the melee guys and draw the ranged ones into shotgun/mini/auto gun range and they go down fast. 90% of the changes people complain about just sound worst than they actually are.
I do agree the trait system needs a rework. But I bet anything that would be a long and tedious project to mix and match the many combos perfectly. Instead I think we would all just be happier if their names weren't miss leading on the rescue down prisoner quests/escaped/prison camp. I'd prefer just to know some information about them so I have motivation to risk my campaign to rescue them.
The steel sink makes 100% sense and nerf to deep drillers. With the buff to caravanning you aren't suppose to just live on your little tile and never see the world. You have more motivation to go do mining trips or trade with allies. Or even move your entire base. Besides steel was always overflowing in my games when I got the deep drill. It was components that are the sinkhole.
He is trying to tell you as polietly as possible to stop theory crafting because it is talking out of your ass. For all you know the steel requirement is like 5 steel once a year for each turret. You can't know what the change means until you actually play a run for a couple years and test it.
Quote from: MarvinKosh on June 19, 2018, 08:39:45 PM
I've noticed today that deconstruction of some things doesn't yield any resources. For example, if you refuel a campfire and then deconstruct it then you can get nothing back.
It used to be that if you deconstructed something with unused fuel, you would get the fuel back. Does it no longer do that?
No theorycrafting in my post. Its not 5 steel, but 60. For all i know. Yeah steel overflows for a bit, once you start deep drilling, but do keep in mind those are nowhere near being endless and have the potential of causing infestations now and that balances them out. Considering how much it costs to get everyone armored before sending them out anywhere, additional heavy steel sink feels unneeded.
Can't say much about caravaneering, didn't try it in 1.0, but unless the issue with event balancing from previous releases is resolved its still suicidal. Without proper defenses, clean hospital rooms and with increased chance of infection its bound to have someone killed. Treating someone out in the wilds is going to make your fragile minded pawns go crazy in seconds from living in a filthy wooden shack after leaving a big cozy protected city with booze and wenches. Only change i ve seen is foraging which is nice.
There s also a point of your ally's base just not having the resource you need. I still remember coming to an outlander town only to see them have 300 steel and ~400 silver worth of money. Yay. Oh yeah, right. And raiders obviously don't care you've sent n% of your people out and come in full force - get sappers and you're hosed, unless you produce nothing short of a tactical miracle.
I'm at the end of the first Septober with a tribal start on a tropical swamp with Cassandra Rough. TL;DR: alpacas still OP
I lost one colonist to a bump on the head and another to infection, but I picked up an animal trainer. She happens to be non-violent, so fights are just three pawns (all decent shooters with low-level guns now) plus my Alpaca Strike Force. I'm up to 15 total animals - a starting husky, 11 alpacas, and a self-tamed monkey, capybara, and elephant (!). Most are trained to release at this point.
My defense is:
- A few disjoint sections of alternating wall/sandbag/wall to duel ranged raids. The strong raid that I had to fight this way felt problematic, but I sent them running and only lost two alpacas. Most of their guns outranged me, but my cover was good, and some enemies walked into Alpaca Threat Range and got hoof'd.
- Actual building entrance, where I can have all three ranged pawns sit one tile away from the open door and let enemies walk in to their doom. Usually I want pawns with melee weapons and armor sitting right at the door, but I don't have any. My animals were very well behaved during a weak manhunter pack. They mostly just sat in front of or around my pawns, and let my usual strategy work. They didn't spill out the door and lose the chokepoint advantage like I expected.
Is animal skill decay an event with a notification? If so, I haven't seen any. My Strike Force is nearly fully trained and I am looking to expand it. Since this is a permanent summer map, maintenance is still low. If there were short or medium winters, I think I would have problems feeding a large Strike Force during the first winter only.
I've lost two alpacas to plague (out of three infected), but I was distracted when I was first notified and didn't tend to them. A whole bunch came down with the flu, but no serious effect. The self-tame events have felt implausibly generous.
The history chart shows the value of animals separately, which I think is a nice touch. They show up as a small part of my net worth, maybe 10-15%
I just played out my first Tribal -Ancient Danger Hunter- run in 1.0 Unstable. Results are... curious but quite an improvement overall.
Basic strategy is bum rush the ancient danger with 5 jade clubs (or 4 jade clubs and a steel ikwa, whatever).
Someone lost a finger, as you do, but we ended up with 2 tribals in power armor and 3 tribals in flak gear before the first nightfall, as well as enough luciferium to regrow 14 fingers if need be.
They packed up, using the new caravan changes, forgetting several piles of jade, and several unmined tiles of jade that I quickly right clicked and fixed (THANK YOU!!!) and charted a course towards the nearest tribal while looking at the map (THANK YOU AGAIN!). I was pretty confused when I neither attacked nor traded with them, and ended up giving them my varg and a ton of plasteel just to get the option to trade with them for food.
I then settled again, bum rushed another ancient danger (Both were devoid of any insectoid or mechanoid menaces, sadly) and filled out my now 6 pawns with 4 power armors and 2 full flak gear. I walked 10 paces to an outpost, sold all the junk for power armor helmets, steel helmets, and two personal shields. Giving me basically the strongest melee force I've ever seen by day 5 or so.
So I marched them off to the nearest pirate base to do battle.
Following my standard exploity nonsense, I found a little hole in the wall, dropped 1 wall and 1 wooden door, and cackled maniacally while I waited for the pirates to march to their deaths.
The second my shield batteried power armored front line closed the thin wooden door behind them, all the pirates paused for a moment and did something I never saw them do before. They lined up far away from the door, and started pitching frag grenades at me while I was stuck in my tiny 6 cell corner.
I was slaughtered mercilessly, and it was the fairest thing I've ever seen.
Hats off Tynan, you gave me the strongest melee force I've ever built in the shortest amount of time, gut punched it without a doom rocket, and left me a half dozen ways I could have fixed it. I knew I should have splurged for that charge lance.
Been playing a slow standard game and enjoying myself. Just passed 500 hours on Rimworld. I appreciated a little change which was being able to relocate a number of workbenches. I moved the kitchen near to the freezer, and the research table out into the workroom and nothing had to be destroyed to do all this.
I'm worried about my medicine supply (it basically doesn't exist - none on the map and nobody skilled enough to grow it) but other than that, this colony seems to have some future. They are being powered by a water wheel and a single solar panel and it seems enough for now with only 1 battery for storage. I built a bridge over the nearby river and they path over it just fine. That seems to work quite naturally so well done there. Only two raids, so far, and each was only one person. I need a good grower. Oh, and my last addition came with go-juice addiction so he's going through withdrawal at the moment, and that takes forever but that's not new. I got no hope of making any go-juice so he has to suck it up. One break so far (dazed or something - he just wandered off), but I'm trying to keep him entertained so he forgets about that sweet, sweet go juice. Mmmmmm. Go juice.
wow Looks like some good changes. ;)
Something that I noticed today is that enemies are a bit dumb when it comes to bridges and fording rivers.
Basically, if the colony defenders are shooting you from across a river and all you have are melee weapons, you should be looking to get out of their firing range or at the very least hop from one bit of cover to another, not run along the bank of the river to try to get to the bridge.
Sure, if you have numbers, maybe you can just rush across the river, but with just three guys, you want to cross that river as soon as you arrive.
Hope this helps.
Thoughts on caravaning:
1. New UI features are an absolute godsend. As is the requirement of plotting a course first.
2. Once upon, a long time ago, Tynan mentioned putting the "Merge" option on screen to give players the idea that this was in fact possible. I don't need it of course, but it would be nice for new players.
3. The option to "pause" is also good, but it might better to expand on that by rewriting it to "Rest" and "Hunt/Forage a lot more". This of course causes the issue of how hunting anything predatory works, but I personally wouldn't mind leaving it to a dice roll.
4. Sometimes, while paying attention to your colony, MANY players (and I see this a lot with some RW YouTubers) forget that they have pawns travelling on the map. I think it would best to give a notification sorts, a message on the right, to tell players that the caravan has arrived at their destination. The "caravan has arrived at Ludeon" just isn't attention grabbing enough. This is pretty much always a problem with merchant caravans, because you forget due to a fire/raid/whatever and then run out of food and other problems.
5. One of my travelling colonists contacted plague (two man caravan), and was pretty much a goner due to me not having good Medicine on hand, just Herbal. It would be nice if, being on a friendly settlement spot on the map, you can pay for better medication. Even something as a "pay X silver until healed", it would encourage players to travel. This wasn't the first time caravaning, but imagine if I were a new player, I'd probably never touch caravans ever again.
6. The quests are good. Some are laughable as it was in B18 (18 bowler hats for 3 antigrain warheads lol) but overall a huge improvement in regards to reward balancing and money value shown.
Played a couple year-long runs as crashlanded and tribal starts. General progression is slower: slower building, farming, researching and more time spent on recreation. It is balanced by weaker early game raids, but there is still a possibility to get hit by a toxic fallout or psychic ship early and unprepared.
Mechanoids seem imbalanced: scythers and lancers are too weak and centipedes are extremely strong. I had two average colonists armed with revolver and sniper rifle defeat two lancers while hiding behind some rock chunks without getting injured. On the other hand, killing a centipede took hours for an entire colony since most bullets are deflected with new armor mechanics.
I didn't use caravans much before 1.0, but now they're in good shape. I went for all incapacitated refugees and unprotected item stashes. Willingly weakening your colony for a few days with a possibility of a great reward feels very satisfying, and the new UI is easy to use.
With nerfs to farming crops, I found myself relying on hunting more often, especially for a tiny colony with less than 10 people. Hunting animals is even faster now with the finishing move. Sadly, you can't finish an animal with a right-click menu while drafted. You have to set up the hunting job, undraft, prioritize hunting, then wait and draft again. Killing big animals is still very easy with a big hunting team without getting harmed, corpses are still easily transported into freezer, and they provide a lot of meat.
With changes to leather types and tailoring time, I never encountered any problems with clothes. Didn't bother to strip down any corpses, and even sold off some crafted clothes to traders for extra money.
Recreation plays a bigger role in the game now but I noticed that when you send a colonist far away for resource gathering, while he travels the recreation bar drops below threshold and immediately after arriving, he travels all the way back. This happened before, but now it's very frequent.
There are still no notifications for dangerous predators. I try to regularly check the map and shoot predators before they eat my people. But as always, I got distracted and a bear mauled my colonist.
I usually play with mods and it was great to see many popular mods implemented into the base game. But playing the unstable version without WorkTab was painful.
Thanks for another great update.
Raiders now can use firearms in close combat point blank. Wow. This release sure doesn't pull any punches. Even less sense to send someone into melee now, that you can just get a bullet in the face point blank... I guess thats fair though. There's no place for medieval savagery in digital age.
"1. It was random and useless unless it was your grower. Better have a proper trait than this wasting space."
So Lazy and Creepy Breathing are better random traits? ;o
It was a great design, even if it wasn't on a grower, that's where you have to think about usefulness of pawns. I dont play with skills decay, so I dont have problems with grinding pawns all the time.
"@Julia: Green Thumb isn't really needed any more because colonists who have a passion for doing a particular kind of job will now get a nice mood buff when they do that job."
Double buff! =]
Insane update, ultra-realistically rebalanced stuff ( +1 for the beer bottle buff btw).
Quote from: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:11:56 PM
-Adjusted balance of learning rates for various skills. Easier: Melee, shooting, social. Harder: Intellectual, growing, mining.
Love you! Never managed to have a colonist raise his social skill by more than 2 points ever.
The bridge implementing was a little late and fishing isn't here yet... other than that and a few things, it feels great and challenging, filled with action.
Speaking about action, the new raid type is insane and because of the new turret mechanic, you can't build a killbox to rely on anymore haha. Thanks for that. Thanks for the nasty sappers too.
Great job to the dev team and the modders who came up with irresistible improvements to the game. It's still a lot more to be done though, but the potential is limitless.
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Just so y'all know, the reason I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
I am having tons of fun with just Core, Alien Race Framework, Orassans, Androids, Prject RimFactory & Mechanite Forge in 1.0 .
Vanilla gameplay really stands on its own now :D.
From what i noticed though is that even with Healroot growth nerf i am getting WAY too much of it now with my bigger farm. Also why no batch recipe for drugs like Smokeleaf joint, Flake & Yayo yet?
Oh and for people who previously got a crapton of corn from their farm in B18 just need to make them bigger if they still want a ton.
Main thing I like is that I no longer have steel and component "starvation". Must probably be because of the lower component cost of stuff now.
Raids are pretty irregular though. Some times i can get many raids in succession and other times it takes seasons for me to get a raid.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/itea5xz8cwb80ga/ModdedColony20180619230600_1.jpg?dl=1)
7. Forgot to mention another thing in regards to caravan: it's the issue of being only 4 tiles away but because it's night welp they better rest! I think one of the comic artists on reddit did that already.
I'm not sure how a Force March would work. It needs to balance with Rest, so maybe have a literal rest meter be a thing? Perhaps not individually, but a general sort of thing that takes account all colonists, prisoners and animals.
I'm pushing another build.
One notable change is that you start with armor in the default scenario now. I'm not 100% sure of this but I want to see how it plays out.
Below I'll post the raw changelog for all changes since the first 1.0 unstable (1936) since I didn't post them before. Here's the sausage being made. The below commits are by a mix of me, ison (Piotr Walczak) and ZorbaTHut (Ben Rog-Wilhelm).
---
Fix: Blueprint graphics for wall/sandbags/door don't match the edge detect shader properly (missing inner solid transparent field)
Removed some text that doesn't pluralize well.
Unified table style so all tables fit the cell more precisely.
A bit more text content.
Added multicount silver graphics.
Adjust some apparel draw sizes. Won't be visible in-game until we fix bug that causes drawSize to do nothing on apparel items.
Added new multicount graphics for steel.
Multi-stackcount graphics for stone blocks.
Various item art improvements.
Add wood log full stack graphic.
Adjust smokeleaf joint graphics for size.
Refined wood log graphics.
Unified health item graphics.
Simplyify body part item graphics.
Uranium is no longer a small-volume ingredient.
Precious lump more likely to form with uranium, less likely with jade.
Made StatPart_Difficulty more sensible (though it's not actually used anywhere :/)
Buff flak vest and flak pants.
Start with flak vest, flak pants, plasteel helmet.
Food poisoning chance is now affected by difficulty.
Wanderer joins letter text specifically notes that you can't question the pawn.
Fill in some text_todo for new body parts.
Wall smoothing work amount 9000 -> 6500.
Changed "abandon" gizmo order.
When RegionTraverser finds a small region, put it to the front of the queue instead of the back.
When health tab is empty, instead of writing "(no injuries)" we now write "(no health conditions)" in the center.
Fix: "Show what will buy" gizmo overlaps "choose landing location" buttons.
Fix: Index out of bounds exception in ToTitleCaseSmart() while generating names.
We no longer warn about proximity goodwill change when settling near permanent enemies because it's pointless.
Fix: "Romance attempt" interaction repetitive text.
Some minor changes to string.Flatten() and string.MergeMultipleSpaces().
GrammarResolver is now more careful while removing excessive whitespace. This fixes issues with incorrect linebreaks in letters.
Rebalanced some prosthetics-related thoughts.
Refine shadow data for buildings.
Clean up some shooting accuracy code, collected constants together.
Clarified refugee pod crash letter and made it specific to the pawn who is crashing. Added _title text output from pawns. So now you can use [PAWN_title] in any text.
Fix minigun and charge blaster balance. Minimum accuracy for ranged weapons changed to 0.01.
Fix: Missing translation tags for direct hit chance and miss radius.
-Balance down watermill 1400 -> 1200 watts. -Healroot grow time 10 -> 7 (crop version only, wild version remains at 10). -Flak pants occupy middle layer (can't be worn under power armor).
Tie forcedMissRadius to whether a weapon is explosive; remove it from non-explosive weapons and adjust accuracy.
Fix: Adjusted forced miss is not applied properly.
Move verb-related ConfigErrors into VerbProperties.
Pass a little extra information into ApplyPatches.
Abstract mod loading into a variety of overridable functions.
Fix: Phrasing mistake.
Fix: Typo.
Added stat minValue where appropriate.
Raiders are no longer allowed to self-tend.
Fix 3443: Colonist with low Animals skill gets 'Product Wasted' when shearing alpaca, but alpaca still has 100% wool
Fix 3439: Item stash contains Silver, Silver, Silver, Silver, and Silver
Fixed back compatibility issue with ScenPart_IncidentBase.
Fix 3435: Backwards compatibility: Issues with missing/changed defs edition
Allow tribalwear for all starts (for naked brutality scenario, mostly).
More content for interaction descriptions.
Fixed issues with hediffs B18 back compatibility.
Fixed some B18 back compatibility issues.
Reduced predator prevalence in most biomes about 30%.
Balance prevalence of harvestable wild plants (mostly reducing raspberries).
Goodwill daily gain and fall for factions reduced 0.5 -> 0.25
Adjusted and added some content for world feature name generation.
Fix: Semi-frequent errors on world generation from name use checking by text generators.
RulePack refactoring. Fix: Tribe factions use outlander union names for name generation.
Rulepacks refactor and naming consistency.
Some minor rule pack refactors.
Fix: Waterwheels don't rotate the right direction.
Integrate backstory translations using the same fuzzy-match logic used for loading.
Improved tribal name generators. Removed various duplicate rules in favor of probability markers.
More naming content for trade ships.
More content for world name generator.
Update string replacement symbols for Tynan easter egg backstory.
More random naming content for pirate factions.
Fix: Some world text still clips with the planet.
Adjust mortar description to explain its inaccuracy.
Exclude wav and png files from VSCode.
Name generation tests now inject the name "Smithee" for ANYPAWN. This is so that rules which require a pawn name (e.g. art titles relating to a Tale about a pawn) get tested as well.
A bit more content for weapon art namer.
Refactor some naming data into global to reduce duplication.
Added more variations to art name generation, and restructured for greater re-use between art types.
Syllables are now global for text generation and renamed to SylE (English) and SylG (Galician).
More content for artwork naming.
Rename some RulePack XML files.
Fix: Art namers don't appear on namer test rulepack list (since their names didn't start with Namer). Renamed them to NamerArtXXX. Fix: Some bracket mistakes from last commit.
Reorganized and renamed various art generation text symbols. Removed a bunch of redundant references (re-defining things already defined in global utility def).
Increase deep counts per cell somewhat (this is balanced because we now have drill-caused infestations)
Credits update (testers)
Delete two meta files that Unity keeps deleting.
Display "(various) x5" instead of just "(various)" when various things are selected.
Grayscale-out disabled Commands.
Fix 3436: Exception while saving Maneuver_Smash_MeleeHit
Fix 3441: Gray turns into __Gray__ when drafted. (Underline on entire textbox rather than name) (maybe)
Fix another smattering of old text-replacement tokens.
It could be nice to have a 4x speed without dev mode (or mods) !! ;)
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Hey! We are the happy and loyal community of the rims! ;D
It's nice to see that every feedback & criticism we give will help improve the game into release!
Looking forward to the release day! While i continue playing B18 and racing to the journey ending! ;)
Hail!
One day, will be added a function similar to the Tech Advancing mod?
Or is ist already in B18/1.0 ?
Unless I'm missing something, when crafting clothing, when you check "pause when satisfied" there is no option to put in a number for that section as there is with other worktables.
https://i.gyazo.com/b9073ccd7f4be8374e13693c4917c6d4.png
(https://i.imgur.com/xyBCYqq.png)
Uhm... Tynan? I know that these colors of outlanders and tribals are different and it's visible if you blend one color on another and take a magnifying glass but can you make us easier to distinguish such colors with the naked eye?
(https://i.imgur.com/eFqwI15.png)
Yeah we're gonna fix the colors, it was just an oversight from when I duplicated the faction defs.
Tynan, thank you for this. I haven't had much time to test this but a couple of things did jump out at me with regards to the new bridges.
I was building a little beach hut with decking over the water and discovered that
1) while you can build walls on top of bridges, you cannot place floors
2) the natural solution for a room partially on a bridge is to use the wooden floor to cover the sand/soil/whatever, however the wood patterns do not sync up.
3) bridges can only be built over water so you cannot just build a bridge under the entire structure for a consistent floor design.
While I realise that there may be very good reasons for not being able to place floors on bridges, would it at least be possible to align the artwork for bridges and wooden floors?
Quote from: swampslug on June 20, 2018, 09:42:53 AM
Tynan, thank you for this. I haven't had much time to test this but a couple of things did jump out at me with regards to the new bridges.
I was building a little beach hut with decking over the water and discovered that
1) while you can build walls on top of bridges, you cannot place floors
2) the natural solution for a room partially on a bridge is to use the wooden floor to cover the sand/soil/whatever, however the wood patterns do not sync up.
3) bridges can only be built over water so you cannot just build a bridge under the entire structure for a consistent floor design.
While I realise that there may be very good reasons for not being able to place floors on bridges, would it at least be possible to align the artwork for bridges and wooden floors?
Yes, we should definitely do that. Thanks.
I think you should also consider changing names color of pawns depending on the faction they belong to. We might see multiple factions on the same map fighting each other while we're not hostile to them. This could be handy in case we wanna use this situation, e.g. capturing people from the defeated faction.
Edit:// Also, consider players might abuse calling exotic goods traders of two opposing to each other factions and something has to be changed there.
Reporting with my medieval/tribal colony.
Was very surprised that I can craft steel plated armor, but there is no medieval helmet option other than wooden tribal mask. IMO steel helmet should be available to craft from blacksmithing table (not only on machining table).
Another old bug/quirk: crafting spot has 100% work speed, but hand-sewing table has 40% work speed. It is much faster to craft tribal clothes on primitive crafting spot rather than on advanced sewing table. It feels wrong.
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
To me, fishing fills an empty niche in extreme maps that don't support wildlife. I've had colonies scrape through a harsh winter that drove all the animals off the map because they were able to fish.
Beyond that, though, fishing is fun from a gameplay perspective. It's oddly relaxing to watch your pawn wander down to the dock and fish for a little while :-)
Quote from: Aerial on June 20, 2018, 09:58:32 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
To me, fishing fills an empty niche in extreme maps that don't support wildlife. I've had colonies scrape through a harsh winter that drove all the animals off the map because they were able to fish.
Beyond that, though, fishing is fun from a gameplay perspective. It's oddly relaxing to watch your pawn wander down to the dock and fish for a little while :-)
I know a good way to solve this.
Instead of fishing with a rod, make it spearfishing instead and tie it to the Melee skill.
Rightclick the shore of a river or coast and select "Spearfishing"
Can be done with any melee weapon, but more effective with a spear equipped =)
Would also give a valid risk-free way to train Melee, to boot!
Bridges in this new game almost feel like terra forming. Nothing can't be built on them and you can ignore bodies of water and marshy soil. Although it is nice it seems like if we have bridges that moister pump needs to be removed from the game. Alternatively there could be multi tiers of bridges or inability to place walls on them.
Personally my plan in my playthrough is to scatter a few turrets and sandbags in my huge river to make for more interesting combat. But since I can build walls on them. Part of me just thinks it is best to pretend the river doesn't exist and just wall it completly off.
Cataconic breakdowns are waaayyyy to frequent. ive got 5 during the last 20 minutes
I 100% am behind a medieval helmet of a sort, considering we're getting plate armor already. It's very much an aesthetic thing, and considering we have revolvers, cowboy hats, dusters, power armor, and charge rifles, just shove a bucket helm and give it quite the Accuracy penalty.
Mental debuff are too strong and often - bing food happen like 4 times in a row, then 3 berserk in a row
You cant build on bridges is that a bug or intentional ?
also any plans for after you complete/launch ships going back to world selection or perhaps another random world generated for a somekind of endless mode?
Quote from: lancar on June 20, 2018, 10:09:39 AM
Quote from: Aerial on June 20, 2018, 09:58:32 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
To me, fishing fills an empty niche in extreme maps that don't support wildlife. I've had colonies scrape through a harsh winter that drove all the animals off the map because they were able to fish.
Beyond that, though, fishing is fun from a gameplay perspective. It's oddly relaxing to watch your pawn wander down to the dock and fish for a little while :-)
I know a good way to solve this.
Instead of fishing with a rod, make it spearfishing instead and tie it to the Melee skill.
Rightclick the shore of a river or coast and select "Spearfishing"
Can be done with any melee weapon, but more effective with a spear equipped =)
Would also give a valid risk-free way to train Melee, to boot!
Its a wonderfull idea!! i am agree with this!
Greetings uncle Tynnan!!
There are any bugs about factions:
When you see factions,before the name: "Could not resolve any Root: Name FirstRulePack: NamerFactionOutlander" (And the faction under) And in the section about diplomacy it puts:"Enemy of ErrorName".
Quote from: klun on June 20, 2018, 11:26:10 AM
Mental debuff are too strong and often - bing food happen like 4 times in a row, then 3 berserk in a row
I think you are undervalueing how important a quality dining room/ rec room and fine meals are worth. Even on extreme naked and brutal I made sure before year one to have 8 by 8 bedrooms for everyone (can be a little smaller). A slightly impressive dinning room with a chess table inside of it so it doubled as a rec room and a way to always have fine meals. I'm rolling on year two and mental breaks aren't the issue for me. Besides one stupid event.
A quest had my characters lover in a prison camp. Since I have no sniper rifles I can't kill turrets yet and didn't do the quest. My character went on a mental break for loss of a lover.
God, 8 by 8 bedrooms... If you need such hungars for each person to just not suddenly go kill everything around them - its kind of broken. I agree about dining room, though for it to have any lasting effect you need an experienced artist.
Alright, about tamed animals going wild and need to train them again... you say it all depends on wilderness, so I guess that higher factor means more frequent issue. What about thrumbos? You risk your handlers' lives and take a lot of time and luck and many wild thrumbos to tame one, another problem to find a similar one with an opposite gender, then the update kicks in and your attempts would go to waste?
Edit:// I tested it. 11lvl tamer keeping thrumbo tamed is on 29% attempt as healthy when the thrumbo's tameness decays on average 5 days... what a thin line makes me keep thrumbo tamed, not saying about taming. On the other hand... I realized it's alright, as long as I have a tamer.
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
The more complexity the games has, the better it is. It would be nice to have some form of fishing. That is to say, for example mods that add hygiene do add complexity, but IMO it's too annoying and not fun, because it is mandatory in a way.
almost 200days in and two problem i have;
-the shield recipe still asking for uranium even though i thought uranium wasn't require anymore (as show in the picture, using the lastest patch)
-i like the feature that range unit in melee combat will sometime shoot their gun, but can u disable that for grenade user, they are basically suciding them self when they fight in melee range with a grenade, even lost a colony to it cause i thought making them hold their fire while in combat will stop them from throwing their grenade.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
Are there really no ways of implementing it without altering much the UI?
There would be one more box in the work tab, but the skill is not really necessary. It could depend on luck, percentage of manipulation and the quality/type of the rod.
But if that box is too much for you, then what about fishing nets that depend entirely on crafting? You just build them and toss them on the water.
Watermills was a good add, but still there is too much water in the game and too little we can do with it.
Really wish to have minerals in temporal maps back, that's was one of the reasons I liked to go to Lump of Precious Resources events, to mine more stuff than the lump of gold or jade, sometimes I would run out of plasteel to mine in my home map, sometimes I wouldn't find gold or uranium to build the ship and trading them is expensive. Sometimes I would send a colonist to a quest in winter with only food and medicine and rely on the resources on the temporal map to build drop pods to go back home or do quick raids.
Add them back Tynan maybe reduced but not fully removed :( Also can you add more time to pack up when you raid a enemy base? 1 day isn't enough to pawns recover from being unconscious or walk again.
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
The lack of fishing was never a bothered me, but with the additions of stuff like flowing rivers and what-not, it seems odd that the streams and lakes are now devoid of any aquatic life to get food from. It wouldn't much too much of a stretch to allow it under the hunting work and just do some hand-wavy stuff about how being good with guns also apparently makes you a good fisher (patience, good eye for spotting fish?).
Gold panning could properly work under mining and have lower priority over mining/using the drill but it doesn't seem like it'd be worth having in-game for what little it'd actually probably benefit.
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on June 20, 2018, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback! This is very useful.
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
The lack of fishing was never a bothered me, but with the additions of stuff like flowing rivers and what-not, it seems odd that the streams and lakes are now devoid of any aquatic life to get food from. It wouldn't much too much of a stretch to allow it under the hunting work and just do some hand-wavy stuff about how being good with guns also apparently makes you a good fisher (patience, good eye for spotting fish?).
Gold panning could properly work under mining and have lower priority over mining/using the drill but it doesn't seem like it'd be worth having in-game for what little it'd actually probably benefit.
Tend to agree with all of this. However I do worry about how fishing may completely throw off the balance of farming and/or hunting. Especially with how it relates to fine/lavish meals, may make them too easy to get unless perhaps fish were good for simple meals only. The reason I say it may get too easy is possibly walling off rivers to be easily self sufficient inside your walled colony and not needing to either put forth the effort in animal husbandry or the venturing out and hunting aspect.
I've been playing Naked Brutality for almost one in-game year (on Phoebe, some challenge).
Either I'm being very lucky, or everyone is related to everyone:
The first colonist to join was a refugee and my colonists brother.
The second colonist to just wander in and join is his brother's ex-lover.
Two days later, her ex-husband joins.
This is getting a bit silly...
Is this working as intended? Is it just me?
I remember that it was much less common to run into family members in B18 than it was in previous versions, which was in my opinion a big improvement.
Also, I hope this doesn't mean I will get raided by his cousins, grandparents and aunts soon, leading to mental breaks as they die...
Quote from: Jovlo on June 20, 2018, 02:34:11 PM
I've been playing Naked Brutality for almost one in-game year (on Phoebe, some challenge).
Either I'm being very lucky, or everyone is related to everyone:
The first colonist to join was a refugee and my colonists brother.
The second colonist to just wander in and join is his brother's ex-lover.
Two days later, her ex-husband joins.
This is getting a bit silly...
Is this working as intended? Is it just me?
I remember that it was much less common to run into family members in B18 than it was in previous versions, which was in my opinion a big improvement.
Also, I hope this doesn't mean I will get raided by his cousins, grandparents and aunts soon, leading to mental breaks as they die...
That has been a balancing trick for the last bunch of alphas, it has usually tipped one way or the other. Beta18, in my experience, had almost zero family, not sure if I've seen even one this whole time. Other alphas before that were completely the other way, where almost every raid had a family member.
Maybe fishing can be done as a random recreation thing. If you are lucky you get a guy with the trait likes fishing. Since it would happen rarely. You wouldn't have to balance the food income from fishing but it could give people who like role playing the ability to scenario edit their starting characters to like fishing. They will only do it if there is a char on a bridge within a certain amount of tiles.
Quote from: medzernik on June 20, 2018, 12:42:27 PM
The more complexity the games has, the better it is. It would be nice to have some form of fishing. That is to say, for example mods that add hygiene do add complexity, but IMO it's too annoying and not fun, because it is mandatory in a way.
This is not true at all, your first sentence that is, while its true that adding depth complexity can make the game more interesting, making it a hassle and micro to manage would just make the game worse busy work. Just as the modded example you gave.
I for one am against fishing, since it would require a lot whole complexity to be satisfying, and in many ways just a cheaty way to find food, and therefor break game balance.
I wanted instead to have some form of hydration mechanics, just because its such a massive point in survival and could make a difference for example between an arid desert and settling near a river. But on the other hand if it was just adding another need and a well building, it would again just be pointless busy work bringing no more joy the game itself. Tynan is already working on this with the flowing river, bridge and waterwell generator, so I trust him to make the best decision there.
I've just started a new map in the 1.0 unstable, so far I like it a lot.
The stockpile enhancements (see screenshot) are a big improvement but still have some issues:
Source stockpile
* Issue: when I select a source stockpile, I also get a list of 10+ incompatible stockpiles. In big bases, i have dozens of stockpiles and there is no need to see all of them marked as incompatible. Can this list be filtered out?
* Issue: there is only one "look in stockpile X" assignment per recipe. Stockpiles tend to fill up with the most available item and production will halt. If you have a 3-item recipe (like steel/component/plasteel) in stockpile X and X contains only steel - nothing will be produced as only steel is available.
Suggestion/idea: specialist stockpile with an "one-stack-of-each item" flag in it. This forces the stockpile to reserve for every unique item in the item selection one spot. So if the item filter is for steel/components/plasteel, then a 3x1 stockpile will have space for one stack of steel, plasteel and components each.
There are some consequences to this idea, like what happens when a stockpile size is not an exact multiple of the number of items in the filter. (3 items in filter vs size 2 or 4)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Campfire requires 3 construction but stove doesn't.
I think the campfire and the stove are backwards.
So alright Tynan, I'm playing it through and here are a few notes, I'm writing them down as I go and trying my best to keep only to bug/balance issues.
- When in caravans and reached a spot, it seems you cannot use items directly from the pawn inventory, for example the rollup beds, and maybe medicine and food (if they are all within only one pawn). Maybe make the roll beds into usable items instead of furniture type.
- Having caravans setup temporary camp anywhere, I'm not sure how much of a balance issue this infers, but it just was pretty cool to have camps like that, the downside obviously being both the camp and the base being weaker targets.
- Restricting drug usage, its a good source of entertainment, but its pretty annoying seeing pawns going to work stoned, maybe have the option to restrict drug usage to only recreation time?
- Native plant spread is much better, though there seems to be an unusual concentration of tress around gravel areas, plus by the end of the second year, landscape still seems more desolate from when you start.
- Stone building still seems excessively high, stone objects are 130% work while buildings are at least 500% over, floors are less of a difference but still present the issue. Maybe add something more to make them worth it, like a insulation parameter (also removing the need for double walls). Or maybe another type of rough stone block wall that is easier to make. (actually I would be all in for a more in depth building types, but later on this)
- The leather/fur categorization, is already pretty good but there still a lot of stray leather that could fit more into the categories. (which I suspect is already in progress)
- Same categorization stuff but for meats, since they're essentially the same, it could be all just one category "animal meat", but I also wouldn't mind a few different types of meat.
- The detail information for items in workbills is pretty lacking, currently it only shows details about the work order itself, requiring you to go into the bill to find the item details itself.
- There are some details missing as well, like overworld moving rate for pawns and carry capacity for animals.
- Have a button in the power tab to remove strictly wiring without affecting any other builds. (essential mod)
- For certain workshop bills, like smiting and tailoring, when ordering just 1 craft, sometimes another pawn will pick up the order and leave the other unable to finish the object. It seems to be more than just reserving the bill, the other pawn literally cannot resume the unfinished object.
- Bug hives seems to multiplicate itself at a alarming rate, even in very tight space, there should be a space constraint on that.
- There are some point in the interface that mouse scrolling isn't work properly, requiring to use the bar. Most noticeably is the storage tab.
Oh yeah another point about protective clothing, since they require still and whatnot they should be recycled at the smelter instead of just burned like normal clothes. That and that flak pants should be wear above regular pants, like protective pads, and the flak vest.
After 2-3h of chill out playing on Cassandra Some Chalenge:
- clicking 'Clear all' in 'Dumping Stockpile' selects *Allow Rotten and *Allow fresh
- Textures looks like from 2 different games (i.e new texture of Fueled Smithy and Simple Research Bench)
- some textures looks strange/not represent stuff clearly (Steel - looks more like fabrics to me, Silver looks more like idk. steel maybe ?)
- combat feels easier
- moving colonists miniatures requires right-mouse-click -> took me some time since in B18 it took to world view
- trees needing research prior planting is good idea
- food poisoning might need tweaking a bit since it might make it easy to collapse colony early-on, if raid happens in bad moment (such is life though)
Food poisoning doesn't might need tweaking. It definitely needs some. What do you even need to eat to get completely incapacitated? Gallons of rat poison? Shenanigans.
Yea I went to rescue a downed person for a quest and one of my 2 guys got food poisoning on the way and couldn't participate. Only conclusion I made was he ate bullets and thought they were berries on his way >.>.
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:11:54 AM
Just so y'all know, the region I never put fishing (or many other suggested things like gold panning) into the game is because it would add another work type and maybe another skill. I consider this to be a pretty heavy interface/complexity burden, so I'm trying to add content that doesn't add more numbers and boxes to the primary ways people interact with the game.
Boom. (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=36687.0) Rainbeau's always been great at those "now that you mention it, I
would like to see that in the game" mods. It's fairly sensical and well thought-out too. It's a new job type, and uses the animals skill. I'd say it's pretty balanced, as it never really surpasses hunting. You might need to fish for a day to get the same amount of meet you'd expect from, say, a deer. It's tough to exploit, as there can only be so many fishing spots in the same area, meaning you probably need multiple water sources to fish from. At the same time, it can be a great way to train animal skill when you don't want that more mouths to feed, and a high enough skill can get you some pretty neat fish. I'm not getting my hopes up that it'll get added, but it'd be neat to see considered.
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:48:37 AM
I'm pushing another build.
. . .
Raiders are no longer allowed to self-tend.
Oh, c'mon Tynan! Maybe it's just a me-thing, but I like my enemies to have agency. If we can do it, why can't they? That's why I have a love-hate relationship with sieges and kidnappings. As somebody who has self-tending pawns, it's certainly not over-powered. Sure, if it meant removing all their pain, refilling them with all their lost blood, and making them infection-proof, I could see why it'd get removed, but I've never seen that happen. Worst-case scenario, the guy who was going to survive to flee with a couple scratches is going to flee with a couple bandages on those scratches. Best-case, we've got the same amount of enemies, except half as accurate and one or two good hits from going unconscious. If you were to take away their ability to self-tend, then you might as well take away their ability to tunnel through boxes we put them in, and remove the packaged survival meals from sieges.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 20, 2018, 05:03:30 PM
Food poisoning doesn't might need tweaking. It definitely needs some. What do you even need to eat to get completely incapacitated? Gallons of rat poison? Shenanigans.
The only case I had from food poisoning was a dog who ate pemmican, and still was during a time where I had a butcher next to my stove.
Can make a fueled stove but can't make a campfire? Tynan what is this thought process?
Quote from: Tynan on June 20, 2018, 07:48:37 AM
I'm pushing another build.
....
I see some nice changes. Thanks, Tynan. I am really glad herbal medicine no longer takes a quadrum to grow and your graphic overhaul for 1.0 is nothing short of majestic.
The only thing that saddened me is that
raiders now can't self tend. I was really surprised and glad when I saw that guests, allies and enemies actually got some brains, enough to dress those gaping wounds that'll kill them in couple hours. Unless allowing them self-tend is messing up something in their AI, or opens up an exploit for player to use - I suggest allowing them to self-tend again.
I would also like to make a humble request to leave those measly 3% for masterwork and legendary item crafting. Relying on quests and inspirations is like awaiting for rain in a desert. You can only hallucinate one, instead of getting it. Those are way too rare, they happen on absolutely random person (when all your guys decently happy), mostly not the one who can build\craft something useful and they're short, so crafting anything complex won't make it before inspiration ends. Can you please bring back those 3% chance to roll a legendary on level 20 skilled crafters\builders\artists?
Anyway, nice update. Big thanks for your hard work.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 20, 2018, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: medzernik on June 20, 2018, 12:42:27 PM
The more complexity the games has, the better it is. It would be nice to have some form of fishing. That is to say, for example mods that add hygiene do add complexity, but IMO it's too annoying and not fun, because it is mandatory in a way.
This is not true at all, your first sentence that is, while its true that adding depth complexity can make the game more interesting, making it a hassle and micro to manage would just make the game worse busy work. Just as the modded example you gave.
I for one am against fishing, since it would require a lot whole complexity to be satisfying, and in many ways just a cheaty way to find food, and therefor break game balance.
I wanted instead to have some form of hydration mechanics, just because its such a massive point in survival and could make a difference for example between an arid desert and settling near a river. But on the other hand if it was just adding another need and a well building, it would again just be pointless busy work bringing no more joy the game itself. Tynan is already working on this with the flowing river, bridge and waterwell generator, so I trust him to make the best decision there.
A fair point. Sometimes though, I wish the game was a bit more deep (I know mods can fix this, but many mods don't have the elegance that Tynan has with game design). The fishing would be annoying though, I agree.
Found something weird in my crash landed start. My cat has been assigned the entire map besides my food. I see rats all around us but it won't hunt. If it can't figure it out soon we will be eating cat I suppose.
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3087/NNpjId.png)
Hey Tynan, and all you other magnificent people working on the game, I haven't had a chance to play much of the unstable build, but from what I have, here's my feedback;
- Graphic overhauls are much appreciated, and were much needed - personally, I think they fit a lit more with the game. Side Note: I love the new green/red UI for placing buildings, much more obvious than the old one.
- The Ship AI core, I'm sure, exists only to frustrate those of us who enjoy symmetry. Please. For the love of symmetry. Make it either 2x2 cells or 4x4 - I don't care which, but I don't want to have to build two to make myself a symmetrical ship! Even up the resource cost a little, if you must :P
- I must say I agree with a lot of what people are saying about Legendary and Masterwork items, they were already pretty difficult to come across, requiring much of an investment in a pawn's skills, and many many resources just to get one or two - maybe reduce it from 3% to 2%, or even 1.5%, but I disagree with making them essentially uncraftable now - inspirations are too unreliable, and, in my experience, never happen to a pawn that will really benefit from them.
- As suggested, maybe fishing would be a good addition - I saw an earlier suggestion that would require no additional skill, and tie it to mele (spear fishing, I believe.) Obvoiusly it's not an essential feature, but I think it'd be nice to have, if it isn't a ridiculously difficult thing to implement.
- 64-bit is amazing, thank you for putting in the time and effort for it, it makes the game run smoother, and will make my post-1.0 100+ mod-filled colonies run at more than 3fps! Though it would seem that you've implemented a lot of QOL mods in 1.0 - a big thank-you for that!
- I know it's probably a pointless thing to ask, but would multi-core support be super difficult to implement at this stage? I have an overclocked i7 6700K, and a GTX 1080, but most of that power isn't used by Rimworld. I read what you've said on the subject, and agree that 64-bit will be better (as someone else mentioned) for battery on laptops, so would it then be possible for it to be a toggleable option? If not for 1.0, as it's probably a bit late now, would it maybe be a possibility for a future update?
- New armour - always welcomed, and the new armour system is a welcome addition. Though, as another user suggested, maybe negate blunt/sharp/piercing armour for cloth clothes, etc. and leave it to synththread, hyperweave, devilstrand, etc. Maybe stronger leathers too? I'd leave the heat/cold armour though, personally. A T-Shirt won't stop you getting shot, stabbed, or punched, but it will stop a burn for a while.
- Speaking of leathers, the cleaned up leather types is another change for the better - much appreciated. Maybe we could have something similar for meats, since most are similar. Perhaps separate them into avian (chicken, turkey, emu, etc.), white (fish? boar, pig, etc.), red (muffalo, thrumbo? alpaca?, etc.), human, insect, and dog (small mood debuff, or negated mood bonus? Most people would prefer not to eat a dog.) I feel like this would help de-clutter the interface even more.
- A little nitpicky thing, leftover from B18, may have been patched in the unstable release, but I haven't seen it anywhere. Could we have the game prevent bonded animals from being butchered automatically? Call me sentimental, but if my colony's husky dies, I don't want my colonists eating him/her for the next week, I want to give him/her a proper burial/sarcophagus. Just a suggestion. Maybe add a tag to their body, and an option to butcher recipies to prevent this? Maybe a small mood bonus, or lesser mood debuff to the bonded human if the animal is given a grave or sarcophagus?
- I agree with one of the above posts on stone walls, they take longer to build, are more sturdy, in real life, insulate fairly well, but in rimworld, you still need two layers if you want a decent freezer. Maybe buff their insulation for a bit of convenience/balance? Personally, I think their build time is a fair trade for their added benefits, but more insulation would be nice.
- On the topic of insulation, maybe there should be some sort of bonus with floors (though this may be ingame already, I don't know) - i.e. stone/steel floors provide more insulation than dirt? May be a little impractical, I'm not sure - thoughts?
- Can't remember if it was in the patch notes/changelog, and I haven't come across it yet, but is power armour still giving a -10% work speed? I would imagine it would be somewhat similar to an exosuit, boosting the user's strength, durability, armour, speed, workspeed, etc. Similarly, I would imagine that the power armour helmet would increase the wearer's sight/combat effectiveness - think inbuilt HUD. Just a thought :)
These are just my suggestions and feedback, overall, you've done an amazing job so far, and Rimworld remains one of my favourite games. Thank-you Tynan (and the rest of your amazing dev team) for providing me, and many others with endless hours of fun.
Sometimes when a melee fighter attacks a gunner, the gunner shoots point-blank. This means grenadiers throw greandes at their feet, blowing themselves up. Is this a bug?
bug or feature, game doesn't pause on mad animal incident. I just got whooped as an ibex was on me and attacking pretty much instantly while playing at high speed. "Pause on urgent letter" is checked in options.
Beginning of Jugust, 5501 with a tribe on a tropical swamp, told by Cassandra Rough.
(previously: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg412112#msg412112 and https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg411714#msg411714)
I've recruited a second animal trainer - not as skilled as the first, but useful for other things as well.
A boomalope and a second elephant have self-tamed, which is just silly. Are untrained animals supposed to obey area restrictions? Before that second elephant was trained, it tended to hang out in the barracks. At night. With all my colonists' delicate skulls resting in sleeping bags on the floor. It didn't crush anyone, but it did disturb their sleep about as much as you would expect.
There were heavy losses due to fire after a gunfight, but the Alpaca Strike Force has grown to twenty animals. It could be more, but there isn't any first-class wildlife left to tame. I may start going after wild elephants, since my primary trainer is now highly skilled.
There hasn't been a serious threat for quite some time now. Should I be worried?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 19, 2018, 11:36:20 AM
I see a new patch has come out. Wished I said this bit earlier:
When placing a blueprint for a sunlamp, it would be nice to see the outline of the light. I'm designing a hydroponics room while pausing and it's an equal annoyance to not remember the light outline.
EDIT: Also should mention, colonists hang around campfires that are dead. Whether that's a bug or not, well you do you Tynan.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=39019.msg396957#msg396957
A few quick bits of feedback.
I think the being downed from just food poisoning thing is ridiculous and kind of obnoxious, if you don't have a high level chef it happens all the time and it really is annoying. Also currently waterwheels are way too strong, with the locking of solar panels behind a technology is means right now you pretty much have to drop by a river if you want viable earlygame power options in a low wood environment now.
Quote from: Daniel_USA on June 20, 2018, 03:53:31 PM
Campfire requires 3 construction but stove doesn't.
I think the campfire and the stove are backwards.
Yeah, and imagine you don't have such level of construction and your mining skill is so low that you can't mine enough steel within a few days for a stove.
A few things:
Potential bug, not sure if new with UB1.0, but I never noticed it in B18, but pets fleeing when a creature goes manhunter, even when that creature attacks their own master. I've seen it happen twice with a warg; Once when the warg was hunting the creature and caused it to go manhunter, the second time a random manhunter event, the warg fled while it attacked the warg's master.
Regarding "tainted" clothes: Do they serve any purpose anymore, other than temporarily filling gaps in your own colonists' wardrobes? Before I could sell them for a pittance, but now no one buys tainted, even for basically nothing. I'm not sure I understand the motivation of this change, and now I'm starting to get large piles of clothing I can't easily get rid of; I've taken to sending them out with caravans so I can drop them into the wild, as I don't want to waste wood just to dispose of useless clothes.
Here's a bit of a Play Story. Is extreme cold killing hives a new thing? I'm running a colony right now where there were three pre-existing hives on the map, and I built somewhat near to one of them. I walled off one entrance so that I could move past it without triggering an attack, but left the other two open, and forbade the area from my colonists and pets. As it was a temperate desert climate (30/60 growing) food was often scarce, both animal and plant, but I was able to keep things going by supplementing my meager rice crops with carefully stolen insect jelly. Then the cold snap came, right at the end of autumn and killed a large chunk of my crops; Little did I realize at the time, but it also killed the hives, releasing the bugs to roam around, and killing my supply of insect jelly. I made it through the winter largely because the bugs kept starving to death and I could use their corpses in meals, but by spring, I was literally living on the edge of starvation, even with resorting to cannibalism. I decided to send out a hunting expedition, forgetting that set-up camp was a mod, so I settled nearby, hunted some camels, and headed back, abandoning the temporary settlement so I wouldn't get events and lag from the secondary map. But lo and behold, I couldn't repeat the attempt a few days later, when I was starting to run low on food, as "Abandoned Settlement" blocks any future attempts at settlement. I think this part isn't new, but I haven't run into it as a problem much before this time, and it really put a cramp in my food supply. I even attempted to send out my cook to forage for food (as well as keep my pack animals fed via grazing) but even with his increased foraging amounts, I'd burn through more food than I'd gain with this technique.
(https://i.imgur.com/AaDdSho.png)
Thanks, Tynan, for this stuff.
Edit:// Although I'd be grateful if the next priority wouldn't go this way:
fine meals -> simple meals -> lavish meals -> nutrient paste meals -> pemmican -> rice.
Shouldn't the removal of the Force Miss Radius for the minigun be accompanied by the removal of its ability to target everywhere? It's now more of a "gun" rather than "aim in this general direction" machine.
Conversely, the Incendiary launcher SHOULD have the ability to target everywhere. It's an explosive device with a radius, it would make sense to Aim Incendiary Anywhere. Apart from that it sees far more use against groups of raiders after they've died, if you catch my drift.
I'm having a few red errors when pawns have a tantrum, usually happens a few seconds after the notification. I have one mod (Numbers) in 1.0 latest version and the save is 1 version old.
Log:
Okay so the logs too big I think for the forum, How do I attach it is like a closable text box or a file?
I think the logs about the specific pawn having a tantrum starting 10 jobs in 10 ticks and it lists the jobs?, I'm not too good at reading the log- also it happened repeatedly throughout the entire tantrum, sometimes without letting me close the window for more then a second.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm reading carefully.
Yoru: If you just copy the error part out of the log you could paste it in a bug report in the bugs forum. You can text search the file for "error".
Pushing another build. Rough change list:
-----
Differentiated colors of different variants of the same faction type.
Remove uranium cost from shield belt.
Applied Jon's new properly-aligned wood floor texture, and made the burned version for it. Applied Jon's proper headless projectile graphics for firefoam and incendiary shells that match the item graphics (e.g. no head).
Rebalanced deep resources: More resources per cell, smaller but more numerous lumps, plasteel and uranium more common, silver moved to same low commonality as jade and gold.
Revert some recent increases to sowing time.
Reduce food poison chances significantly.
Adjusted poker table graphics to standard table style (filling the cells).
Solve a quirk where some items are faster to craft at crafting spot than on proper benches (e.g. tribalwear). Solution: -Set crafting spot to 50% speed. -Crafting spot and butcher spot are both now subject to temperature and outdoors work speed penalties. -Made smokeleaf joint and pekoe makeable at drug lab. -Adjusted work speed penalties, outdoors 80%->90%, bad temperature 60%->70%.
Group melee-related stats away from ranged-related stats.
Group Miss Radius and Direct Hit Chance stats.
Add Direct Hit Chance to shot report.
Fixed bugs, made a debug output for, and rebalanced the code that adjusts backstory selection chances to try to achieve a relatively even spread of work disable commonalities.
Fix 3442: Typo in Mini-Turret's description
Intercept_Object_HitChancePerFillPercent 0.10 -> 0.15
-Random intercept chance for wild projectiles is now the same as hitting cover for world objects adjacent to the target. This solves issues where if two people are hunkered behind sandbags, it can be weirdly likely to hit the neighbor of your true target since the sandbags don't protect him at all, while they do protect your true target. Unfortunately this doesn't perfectly solve the issue when the shooter misses *behind* the target since the sandbags aren't adjacent to the target point. Still have to work on that. -Fix: Shots can randomly intercept targets who are inside the destination cell (now it only hits using the target cell impact code). -Improve on-map shooting debug output. -Increased chance factor for randomly intercepting world objects for wild shots 0.07 -> 0.10. -Intercept_Pawn_HitChanceFactor_LayingDown 0.10 -> 0.15. -Condense shooting-related tunable constants into ShootTunings
Fix: If a hunt target gets up after being downed, it still gets slaughtered in melee.
Added XML translation handles so it's easier to translate list elements.
Added RulePack.rulesFiles field which just instantiates specially formatted Rule_Files so translators can add more Rule_Files. Added MayTranslate attribute.
Fix 3448: Buildings marked for deconstruction yield no resources, so colonists should not refuel them
Added translation repos clone/push scripts.
Minor clarity text changes in bill config dialog.
Open doors no longer always intercept stray bullets. Chance reduced to 5%.
Quote from: Tynan on June 21, 2018, 04:35:49 AM
Pushing another build. Rough change list:
-Snap
Hello tynan, there is a mechanic that's a bit weird in the game, for example:
I go force harvest 3 berry bushes and when my pawn is done it comes back to base to do some other job but it DOESNT HAUL the berrys, i have to manually make her haul it and sometimes that's really annoying because a berry bush might be a bit far than the other so it doesnt even collect all berrys just 2 of them and leaves the 3rd unhauled cause its a bit far.. so i have to take 2 back and then force haul the 3rd one too, could u look for a better implementation for this or explain why its like that? i dont really mind the 2nd problem that i mentioned but the first one is really clunky...
I see another clunkyness too:
How can campfire require 3 construction to be built and stove is 0?, i think it should be the opposite way, logically campfire should be way easier than setting up a stove....
QuoteDifferentiated colors of different variants of the same faction type.
What do you think about to add a choose colour at the faction tab, so player can modify the colour at their needs.
I am really liking the changes, though i'd still prefer to not have simple food poisoning knock out colonists, instead of making it less common. Because its still weird as all hell to see a pawn drop from eating some berries.
Glad to see maps deep resources rebalanced. In this case i am fine with them being longer to mine and causing bugs to spawn - at least they're richer and can sustain you for longer time. Nice.
And what can i say about shooting changes? Amazing! Projectiles hitting a pawn thats next to the target with near 100% probability even behind sandbags was one big complaint of mine, you always had to just scatter them as far as you can to avoid constant damage. This one change will definitely make direct confrontations with raiders more of a viable way to defeat raids.
Well and i guess I still hold a little hope of seeing masterwork\legendary qualities back from the abyss and raiders having brains to patch themselves up.
Quote from: Tynan on June 21, 2018, 04:35:49 AM
Made smokeleaf joint and pekoe makeable at drug lab.
Glad to see this was added. The smokeleaf recipe still specifically excludes workspeedstat and workskill though. It's the only drug that does not become faster to craft with bionics or other bonuses which is a bit weird.
Quote from: FrozenSnowFox on June 21, 2018, 05:42:14 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 21, 2018, 04:35:49 AM
Made smokeleaf joint and pekoe makeable at drug lab.
Glad to see this was added. The smokeleaf recipe still specifically excludes workspeedstat and workskill though. It's the only drug that does not become faster to craft with bionics or other bonuses which is a bit weird.
Really? I didn't even realize that and I can't imagine why. I tend to forget why my game works as it does after a year or two. Will have to look into it. Goldfish life.
Will wood's blunt and possibly heat resistance StuffPower stats get nerfed? There are some odd quirks with wood compared to steel, best shown through a simple armour StuffPower comparison.
Wood:
- 30% sharp resistance
- 30% blunt resistance
- 50% heat resistance
Steel:
- 50% sharp resistance
- 25% blunt resistance
- 40% heat resistance
While some wood types are durable, surely they can't be any more durable than solid steel. Also, heat resistance should definitely be lower since wood would easily combust when in contact with flames, whereas steel wouldn't. I guess the rationale for the latter is the fact that metal is conductive, and damp wood might be more effective in this case?
Also, maybe stuffed melee weapons should use a similar StuffPower setup to apparel, since they still use the old weapon types as bases and material multipliers, rather than the other way around. It probably won't have any impact on gameplay, but it'll make them consistent with apparel which could be easier for newer players.
A suggestion (Thanks for the answer to my last post by the way, Will do that)
Is there some way for the AI (Pathing?) of pawns to be altered, in a way that meant that they tended to try and avoid walking through rooms that other pawns were sleeping in- not a super strong, must avoid pathing, but a "If possible" kind of avoid, and even further/alternatively if there was a way to label a room as a pawns and other pawns wont go in there unless ordered to, or theres a danger inside it? (Such as a fire, or being order to hide in it/equip a weapon in it)
So for example, in a starter house with a barrack and the fastest route is to go through the barrack to get to the dining table, but theres another door a little further away. Currently the pawn will head through the barrack and annoy all the sleeping pawns at night to get a midnight snack. With this altered behaviour/pathing the pawn will instead take a couple extra steps and avoid annoying/waking up all of his fellow colonists. After all its only polite :)
Some thoughts on 1.0 Unstable after my second all-night session:
Things I really like:
-The Family/Raid relationships add excellent depth to the game story; so far, I've managed to recruit a father, his brother, and captured his son during a Pirate raid; the son is at 93% difficulty to recruit, however. I'd love to see the probability of recruitment get modified (easier) based on how many family members are in the colony already.
-Smoothing stone walls is great; love the beauty modifier.
-Watermills, even slightly debuffed in the latest update, are excellent.
-Thank you, Tynan, for decreasing the frequency of Food Poisoning; only two instances in an all-night session. It feels much more reasonable, although I'd still like to see the ability to send a colonist to a medical bed, even if the poisoning severity can't be mitigated by medicine.
Things I'm not crazy about:
-Minimum skills for basic survival items (Building a campfire, crafting a Short Bow come immediately to mind)
-The grouping together of all 10 Area zones, instead of 5 for Pawns, 5 for Animals; having 10 options visible on the screen at once makes it far more difficult to quickly identify the zones and select them, since the zone names become truncated and unreadable. It also increases the chances of making an error in choosing a zone, since they're much smaller to click on. Slide selecting vertically down the column is much harder to do accurately (like when you'd select all animals to a "Barn" zone during a raid).
-Two toggle buttons which seperate room stats from "beauty" graphic indicators, instead of one button that includes both stats; it's a bit unwieldy, and I enjoyed having all stats on one toggle.
Things I'm actively disliking:
-The removal of boar capability to haul. I understand that boar swarms were very OP, but the solution would seem simple: remove the ability to follow a master, and the ability to release in an attack. Their real utility was their ability to haul, without having to ramp up Kibble production for Dogs, which can easily strangle an early game's food supply (in both meat and Hay production). Pigs don't work in this role either, IMO: they can't be found and tamed in the wild, and they'll die on colder maps.
My suggestion would be to give only large Predatory *wild* animals (Bears, Wolves, Wargs and Large Cats only...and not Foxes, Elephants, Rhinos, Megasloths or Thrumbos) and Huskies the ability to attack/follow. The upkeep cost of this category would seem to offset the benefits of having them attack, in my estimation, and would make building a meat shield very expensive...and equally as expensive to rebuild.
Bugs:
-Only one encountered so far: a wooden floor could not be cleaned of dirt over several game days, regardless of which pawn attempted it. All prerequisites were met (floor was zoned as "Home" area, all colonists assigned to cleaning and "Unrestricted", pawns left the room and returned later). The floor was deconstructed and re-constructed, and could then be cleaned normally.
Thanks for reading! I've got about 20 hours into 1.0 compared to about 2,500 hours in B18...I'm really eager to see how gameplay develops once I get into mid-game!
Increased rate at which those damned family members show up in raids is actually a really bad thing i kinda wish it was toned down back to B18 level. With game's usual death\down check for me it always ends up with atrocious mood debuffs "my great grand father's second cousin's brother died, he was such a wonderful person!" despite said person trying to eat his face off, followed by "I am gonna kill every last one of you!" because my mood is so low.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 21, 2018, 06:32:18 AM
-The grouping together of all 10 Area zones, instead of 5 for Pawns, 5 for Animals; having 10 options visible on the screen at once makes it far more difficult to quickly identify the zones and select them, since the zone names become truncated and unreadable. It also increases the chances of making an error in choosing a zone, since they're much smaller to click on. Slide selecting vertically down the column is much harder to do accurately (like when you'd select all animals to a "Barn" zone during a raid).
I'd like to see something kind of like Fluffy's Work Tab, with side-turned column texts, that you can select the area en-masse; Single click to send every pawn to one area.
Quote
-Two toggle buttons which seperate room stats from "beauty" graphic indicators, instead of one button that includes both stats; it's a bit unwieldy, and I enjoyed having all stats on one toggle.
Just a vote in the opposite direction. Really glad it came back to two buttons, as I often just leave the room-stat button on, but the beauty stat toggle is largely situational.
Play StoryNew campaign today, and man Recreation is really rough! My colony has been on the edge of losing it (and has lost it, many times) because of recreation demand, and they tend to almost exclusively choose the horseshoe pin over other types of recreation, even when dexterity-based recreation resistance is nearly maxed out. I know I need more forms of recreation, but I'm barely getting the basics up still, having just got beds and bedrooms for everyone, and researched batteries so that my wind power's sporadic input doesn't let my food rot;
The research requirements for some things we used to have off the get-go definitely make the early game more difficult than it was, though I think this is a good thing; Research always seemed like a luxury, something I started once the colony was established; Now it seems like an absolute must, just to get things really rolling along. As a crash-landed, I have to balance hunting against food usage almost the same way I had to as a tribal start, until I can finally get steady electricity; If I'd started near a river that'd probably be less of a factor, but my starts so far have been mostly desert; This time at least I have a few small patches of fertile soil and endless summer; Though the heat waves have been nigh murderous.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 07:04:34 AM
Increased rate at which those damned family members show up in raids is actually a really bad thing i kinda wish it was toned down back to B18 level. With game's usual death\down check for me it always ends up with atrocious mood debuffs "my great grand father's second cousin's brother died, he was such a wonderful person!" despite said person trying to eat his face off, followed by "I am gonna kill every last one of you!" because my mood is so low.
Family members of colonists (and prisoners maybe) ought to get no magical chance to die as others do. Family encounter is supposed to be an opportunity of something positive, instead of a curse many times worse than a psychic drone. Once I recruited a pawn whose 3 family members attacked within a quadrum and they all died. It was a terrifying debuff.
Not sure if this is intended, but all eggs produced now are fert. There are 0 unfert. eggs produced. As I recall from Beta versions there was a chance eggs would be fert. but not 100%.
The Positives:
1. Colonists ALL go to the recroom and play poker, pool, chess together! It's so rewarding seeing all your pawns have fun! It makes me wish there were more joy items.
2. The quest rewards are JUST right. Still nonsensical (24 shirts for excellent Plate Armor you got it) mind, but seeing those Silver values makes you want to go out more often. The rewards are 100% worth it.
3. Armor is way better. Not great, I know it's still bring tweaked, but I actually rush armor and try to get good helmets on my doctors. Looking forward to improvements.
4. Have about 8 or so animals on the colony (boomalopes, alpacas, etc) and despite the panic, there doesn't to be too much of an issue in regards to obedience decay.
5. The +18 to saving a family member, super great touch. Lasts 30 days too!
6. Prosthetics are just perfect at 85%. Some of my pawns have scarred limbs and replacing it to get rid if it is actually quite a reasonable strategy. The healing serums from the quests help too, as is the debuff so that players don't Robocop their entire colony.
Not So Positives:
1. Doctors still choose to relax at the table instead of hauling ass and patching up wounds. I think this is very much because the schedule is set to Joy. I think the Doctoring priority should ignore schedule, and players should wake up their doctors if napping as it is.
2. The incapitated refugee should at the bare minimum, tell the player the danger they're in. You can even be vague and not precisely tell the kind of threats. Stuff like "armed men" or "dangerous predator" should be enough of a hint. Maybe a rough number on the amount of hostiles? Don't want to send 3 dudes but found out I'm stumbling to a raider outpost.
3. The rescued should get a buff of sorts, like the happy family member.
4. In regards to saving a refugee, most of the time they are incapitated and thanks to the fact that the quests are closer, don't have time to heal. Queee the caravan arriving victorious except they plop the poor sucker down whey the enter and the player needs to manually rescue them. Hillarious sure, but confusing to a new player.
5. Low Expectations is a buff given to colonists when travelling. This is good but insufficient, as my colonists arriving at the site are totally bored out of their skull. Joy should freeze or have a new Wanderlust moodlet.
6. Lack of a greathelm/bascinet/armet saddens me. Also we need repeaters. We totally need it. Because reasons.
I've notice a few things break the early goings for naked brutality:
Food poisoning: right now this is overtuned. You run a good chance of instant game over on RNG via being attacked while down unless you roll for a good cook w/o exception.
Early disease: you can apparently contract malaria or such within the first month of play. Again, this is instant game over on RNG unless your medical stat is ridiculous, and maybe even then since it will impact tend quality. Grace period might be useful on this.
Game would still greatly benefit from predator hunt alert too. It's still very asymmetric to have a random timber wolf that wandered into the map a few days ago be a larger threat than an AI sapper raid on extreme difficulty just because you didn't notice it on the wildlife tab list in time.
I'll tell you one thing. Playing this game from Naked Survivor going upwards has given me a deep appreciation for the Greatbow volley. There is something quite special about everyone loosing their arrow at the same time, the enemy being overcome by a hail of death, the grim reaper given physical form.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 21, 2018, 10:48:21 AM
I've notice a few things break the early goings for naked brutality:
Food poisoning: right now this is overtuned. You run a good chance of instant game over on RNG via being attacked while down unless you roll for a good cook w/o exception.
Early disease: you can apparently contract malaria or such within the first month of play. Again, this is instant game over on RNG unless your medical stat is ridiculous, and maybe even then since it will impact tend quality. Grace period might be useful on this.
Game would still greatly benefit from predator hunt alert too. It's still very asymmetric to have a random timber wolf that wandered into the map a few days ago be a larger threat than an AI sapper raid on extreme difficulty just because you didn't notice it on the wildlife tab list in time.
I can feel your pain, I've already lost a game within a few days. But on the other hand, you shouldn't expect devs to make it easier for this game mode. As it's described, this is supposed to be directed for hardcore players.
Food poisoning? You gotta secure yourself asap keeping in mind that a raid may occur while you're resting.
Early disease? You simply settle into an area with the least disease frequency. Avoid swamps and forests.
Predator attacking? Well, you gotta make sure there are other preys the predator would be interested in, especially when you're starting with no apparel. Then make a ranged weapon and fight kiting, using internal rooms.
Quote from: Flacwby on June 21, 2018, 09:09:27 AM
Not sure if this is intended, but all eggs produced now are fert. There are 0 unfert. eggs produced. As I recall from Beta versions there was a chance eggs would be fert. but not 100%.
Any eggs that aren't chicken eggs have always been fert-only. This is nothing new.
I had some time to play the new version and here is my feedback. I didn't take the time to read everything above, so I hope there is nothing that is already reported a dozen times.
- Will there be a way to set 64 bit a default option on start so one doesn't have to extra click every time?
- I had multiple raids early where one of the enemy pawn had a full set of only excellent cloth. Not sure if that is a bug or it comes from a very high equipment value on generation and because (I think) attacking pawns can't spawn with better quality, it just results in a full excellent set.
- Why do smoothed stone walls give +2 beauty when even silver and gold walls give none? This is a way too big boost for mountain bases, also for no costs beside some work.
- I played extreme desert and starting without solar and batteries made it a lot harder. I like that, but playing on a river map kills all this challenge and makes it incredibly easier with the good constant power output of the watermill and no research needed for it. Sure the watermill should have an advantage to even build it, but I think this is too much for just a bunch of wood as costs. This results in a "if you play on a river, you don't need any other power source or batteries". An idea: Make the power generation not constant. Irl rivers (coming from mountains) have more water in spring/summer when snow melts and less in winter. I don't know if this will work in Rimworld, because a year is very long and nobody wants to build enough batteries to store power for half a year. But I like the idea of having a power source with longer with a longer cycle then just day/night and maybe it would work when shifting between 600 and 1k power or the like.
You can just make a 64bit shortcut on your desktop its not really a huge issue with one more click. Agreed about the walls. I think all walls, save for wooden ones, should have some beauty to them Especially those from jade, silver and gold. That would be a nice touch. Or adding whole new type of walls that takes much more materials to build, but has some beauty, that gets influenced by material beauty stat
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 21, 2018, 12:09:33 PM
Quote from: Flacwby on June 21, 2018, 09:09:27 AM
Not sure if this is intended, but all eggs produced now are fert. There are 0 unfert. eggs produced. As I recall from Beta versions there was a chance eggs would be fert. but not 100%.
Any eggs that aren't chicken eggs have always been fert-only. This is nothing new.
Sorry I was referring to chicken eggs. 100% of chicken eggs are now fert.
Quote from: Lanilor on June 21, 2018, 12:43:16 PM- Will there be a way to set 64 bit a default option on start so one doesn't have to extra click every time?
What is the point in asking anyway? Why would anybody pick 32 bit on a 64 bit OS? Ask the OS how many bits it's using and pick the exe based on that. Add some option in properties for those rare cases where people aren't happy with the autodetected value.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 12:50:06 PMYou can just make a 64bit shortcut on your desktop its not really a huge issue with one more click.
I clicked create shortcut and it starts the 32 bit version. Also anybody claiming the extra clicks at startup to be a minor issue clearly aren't making their own mods, which needs testing, adjustments, testing, etc, which results in frequent starting of the game.
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 21, 2018, 01:37:51 PM
I clicked create shortcut and it starts the 32 bit version. Also anybody claiming the extra clicks at startup to be a minor issue clearly aren't making their own mods, which needs testing, adjustments, testing, etc, which results in frequent starting of the game.
You go to your Rimworld folder, find a file "RimWorldWin64.exe" and make a shortcut to that file. Then it starts 64bit version properly. I guarantee its a faster way of getting rid of your 2-extra-clicks problem than waiting for devs to fix it.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 21, 2018, 01:51:47 PM
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 21, 2018, 01:37:51 PM
I clicked create shortcut and it starts the 32 bit version. Also anybody claiming the extra clicks at startup to be a minor issue clearly aren't making their own mods, which needs testing, adjustments, testing, etc, which results in frequent starting of the game.
You go to your Rimworld folder, find a file "RimWorldWin64.exe" and make a shortcut to that file. Then it starts 64bit version properly. I guarantee its a faster way of getting rid of your 2-extra-clicks problem than waiting for devs to fix it.
You disable all steam features by starting the game from the exe instead of through steam, which is the very reason why the question was introduced to steam in the first place.
Starting the exe directly is ok right now when people playtest vanilla, but in say two months when the workshop is full of mods, it's no longer as fun to disable all mods downloaded through the workshop. This startup issue really should be fixed.
I don't really care about Steam features, but if you do - then yeah, you will have to bear with two additional clicks before getting to play. As for mods - starting from executable files doesn't prevent you from playing with mods.
Found a really horrible and weird chain reaction for mental breaks. My character had a minor break for dazed. Lasted almost the entire day and when it was over they were low on sleep, joy and food (minor starvation). As they came out of dazed because of these things they were at extreme break risk and went catatonic for like a week + before they could get to their meal.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 21, 2018, 06:32:18 AM
-The removal of boar capability to haul. I understand that boar swarms were very OP, but the solution would seem simple: remove the ability to follow a master, and the ability to release in an attack. Their real utility was their ability to haul, without having to ramp up Kibble production for Dogs, which can easily strangle an early game's food supply (in both meat and Hay production). Pigs don't work in this role either, IMO: they can't be found and tamed in the wild, and they'll die on colder maps.
Really, no more boar hauling? That's terrible. Boars are the only animals I ever kept because they could be obtained and fed reliably and they could do useful work. Dogs are a poor substitute because of the meat requirement and their propensity to snack on all the drugs. Please reconsider this Tynan!
Or if we are going to get nerfs on animal's intelligence then can animals PLEASE be recoded to not consume drugs? I've never used drugs in Rimworld because I hate losing animals to them.
I am inclined to agree. However hilarious it is to see huskies with cirrhosis, i am kinda tired of having to replenish my booze supply because my dogs learned how to open bottles... Pretty please, master Tynan?
Here are some more notes I got, mind you from playing yesterday, so not the latest patch:
- have an auto roof option, like auto expand home area, just so they don't build roof automatically whenever you enclose a room
- right it seems that animals always get pregnant, despite the time investment its still too easy to breed livestock
- chemfuel generator doesn't seem to produce any heat, or is it just too little to notice?
- the cutting wood order seems to take on very early stage trees, below 50%, not sure if intentional, but maybe its better to target more mature trees?
- there still are some visual shadow glitches from roofed but not walled areas
- don't remember if already mentioned earlier, but watermills are pretty OP, being an obvious choice early on an unparalleled power source despite its wood requirements, maybe make water flow variable like wind turbines
- wow sunlamps are such tremendous power hogs now, even though they power off at night
- the same way sunlamps now auto shutdown, I would like to see workbenches being flicked automatically when used or not (there was a mod doing that some versions ago), maybe balance that by separating between passive/active power usage
- and likewise, the above for lamps, turning on only when someone is in the room, balance with passive/active as well, and maybe behind a tech. Its not just about the power usage, but having a more dynamic visual to the base, and justifying placing lamps on lesser visited places.
- taming seems alright, and its a nice way to keep your pawns training the skill, but they often seem to be using less optimal meal, like raw meats and good meals, instead of for example, kibble or hay where appropriate.
- dog doesn't seem to be able to move with a leg cut off? as far as I know, most 4 legged animals have no problem adapting to being 3 legged, even if slower, lower capacity.
- also had a problem with food poisoning, getting three colonists sick one after the other, but saw you nerfed this a bit, may I suggest having different degrees of food poisoning, and also hinting somewhere on the item if meal may or not be poisoned, instead of having the player blindly guessing what causes it.
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 21, 2018, 11:57:33 AM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 21, 2018, 10:48:21 AM
I've notice a few things break the early goings for naked brutality:
Food poisoning: right now this is overtuned. You run a good chance of instant game over on RNG via being attacked while down unless you roll for a good cook w/o exception.
Early disease: you can apparently contract malaria or such within the first month of play. Again, this is instant game over on RNG unless your medical stat is ridiculous, and maybe even then since it will impact tend quality. Grace period might be useful on this.
Game would still greatly benefit from predator hunt alert too. It's still very asymmetric to have a random timber wolf that wandered into the map a few days ago be a larger threat than an AI sapper raid on extreme difficulty just because you didn't notice it on the wildlife tab list in time.
I can feel your pain, I've already lost a game within a few days. But on the other hand, you shouldn't expect devs to make it easier for this game mode. As it's described, this is supposed to be directed for hardcore players.
Food poisoning? You gotta secure yourself asap keeping in mind that a raid may occur while you're resting.
Early disease? You simply settle into an area with the least disease frequency. Avoid swamps and forests.
Predator attacking? Well, you gotta make sure there are other preys the predator would be interested in, especially when you're starting with no apparel. Then make a ranged weapon and fight kiting, using internal rooms.
No notification about predator hunting is just a strict QoL design issue, so it's unlike the others.
Your other suggestions are non-starters. Less chance of instant loss to RNG is still chance of instant loss on RNG. Putting yourself in tundra or whatever doesn't mean you can't get malaria before you can possibly survive it.
I got food poisoned despite cooking inside a small, clean room with flooring. It's impossible to have a nicer environment than this in opening 10 days. If you don't reroll for good cooking skill, surviving this phase of the game is pure RNG.
Do not mistake "challenge" and "luck dependency". These are fundamentally opposed concepts. The more your outcome is contingent on RNG rather than player choices/execution, the less skill is a meaningful contributor to the outcome.
Removal of skill is not skill, nor is it credible as a challenge. I've been doing 1 man starts with tribal tech on extreme difficulty for multiple patches now. 1.0 introduced more pure RNG to these openings than it removed, and that is not a good direction for the game. For most design elements, player choices and preparation matters.
I'm not keen on the concept of "starting pawn absolutely must have good skill in X or you will die most of the time". That's especially true when you need multiple skills (cooking and medicine at minimum).
by the way, balance is overdone. used to be a lot of fun to play rimworld...
so you're telling me i get 3 people food poisoned with a 8+ cook in a stone floor kitchen, which they all down at the same time, leaving me with 3 colonists? O-O
i think i need to repeat some things:
- recreation is impossible to fulfill late game
- caravans can magically disappear without story (your favorite thing) because your 2 colonists got downed in the same second.
- there are no animals to teach hauling anymore.
- you changed pump shotguns to be no longer be viable now, any scenario. too short of range compared to chain shotguns having the same range.
- my colonists keep breaking up just before being married????????????
- soaking wet is not a fun balance to water turbines.
- i think set-up camp is gonna have to add in a lot more code because you removed ore from encounter maps.
- a balance to bionics would be to have the rich explorer start remove the decrease of mood because of bionics. other colonies would still have the debuff, but rich explorer would have more glitterworld expectations.
- goddamnit, sir doodles is very sad that he's the fault of your dirty "drill balance". it's overbalanced, OKAY?!
if i can think of 5 or more, i will make another post.
@TheMeInTeam
The same RNG can kill your colonist with a bow during a fight despite covering well. The same RNG can give you permanent injuries, etc. You simply make strategies that maximally decrease the chance of loss, that's how you play RimWorld on a difficulty of your level.
Btw are you on Randy?
However, I agree, Tynan has to nerf this food poisoning stuff.
Iirc downed colonists make raids easier.
Quote from: Mitz on June 21, 2018, 04:13:17 PM
by the way, balance is overdone. used to be a lot of fun to play rimworld...
so you're telling me i get 3 people food poisoned with a 8+ cook in a stone floor kitchen, which they all down at the same time, leaving me with 3 colonists? O-O
i think i need to repeat some things:
- recreation is impossible to fulfill late game
- caravans can magically disappear without story (your favorite thing) because your 2 colonists got downed in the same second.
- there are no animals to teach hauling anymore.
- you changed pump shotguns to be no longer be viable now, any scenario. too short of range compared to chain shotguns having the same range.
- my colonists keep breaking up just before being married????????????
- soaking wet is not a fun balance to water turbines.
- i think set-up camp is gonna have to add in a lot more code because you removed ore from encounter maps.
- a balance to bionics would be to have the rich explorer start remove the decrease of mood because of bionics. other colonies would still have the debuff, but rich explorer would have more glitterworld expectations.
- goddamnit, sir doodles is very sad that he's the fault of your dirty "drill balance". it's overbalanced, OKAY?!
if i can think of 5 or more, i will make another post.
-Hauling animals have moved to something that is cherished instead of expendable fighters. That skill is placed on more rare creatures that are harder to train. Seems a worthy balance to me since boars were way to insanly op. (basically only viable strategy on any map that had them which is almost all).
-Water turbines are borderline op. You no longer need batteries if you plan properly. Besides reserve batteries specifically for turrets. Plus bridges is basically teraforming. If you don't like the river soaking colonist you can remove all the river on the map with bridges (not that you need to).
-Moving tiles takes like .3 days. You can travel to a tile and enter it (enable more than 1 colony in your options) with no food or any supplies and do it that way if for some reason you are unprepared.
-I personally did the extreme version of rich settler ( naked brutal ). The key is picking your starting character carefully. Having your only colonist have any type of mood debuff traits isn't a smart move.
-You are comparing pump shotgun to a chain shotgun? Why not make the same claim for bolt action rifle to sniper rifle. Or assault rifle to charged rifle. I used pump shotguns almost exclusively on my extreme brutal campain. They are one of the best early game weapons. Of course if a higher teir weapon like a charged rifle or chain shotgun dropped i'd use that instead. But wtf?
Not sure why recreation can't befufilled. I have seen no issues with that. But my guys have set joy times after they wake up and before bed. With 3 our gap without working to do anything they wish.
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 21, 2018, 04:17:53 PM
@TheMeInTeam
The same RNG can kill your colonist with a bow during a fight despite covering well.
That's just the thing. No, it can't. Unless I screw up micromanagement or reads on AI raiders, it's not happening. If I do make such a mistake, I can't reasonably blame it on RNG. That's an execution error on my part.
When I'm playing well, I can be the one with the bow and still win safely.
QuoteThe same RNG can give you permanent injuries, etc. You simply make strategies that maximally decrease the chance of loss, that's how you play RimWorld on a difficulty of your level.
And with the overwhelming majority of things in the game, including raids and nearly every other event, the "chance of loss" on the order of pawn death or permanent injury is next to nothing with perfect play. When a malaria proc in the first 15 days is worse for me than an 8 vs 3 raid scenario where the 8 raiders have better weapons, there's something wrong with the RNG-based outcomes on malaria.
Agency doesn't just matter to this game, agency in terms of both planning and execution is a core premise of playing Rimworld. When an implementation cuts into this agency by adding 100% RNG variance, what you have is a skill-equalizing implementation. What does it add to the game? Almost nothing, unless you consider rerolling extra times so you're less vulnerable to RNG death after memorizing that you can be killed at random if you don't do it a "meaningful choice".
Are you playing on Randy?
I agree with themaninteam. I played b18 with naked brutal scenario on extreme Cassandra in the desert, icesheet and jungle. You have a HUGE amount of control over your pawns living or dieing in b18 although I don't agree that 1 unlucky shot can't kill them. I've seen a guy with a bow kill my person with a sniper rifle 14 skill in shooting (but it is rare and part of the fun for me). In 1.0 he already stated he fixed food poisoning on page 17. I do agree disease early game seems ramped up. I would rather more raids early on, than disease since it is more unforgiving. having to fight an 8 on 1 battle with a bow and savaging for weapons during the fight is much more fun and rewarding than having to slowly die from the plague before you even have a second colonist or real medication >.>.
Not player the 1.0 release yet but just wanted to ask, is the check box for allow non-dead mans apparel still the same ? it would make more logical sense to change it to allow dead mans apparel as this should be the exception not the norm.
amazing feedback from tynan so far.
Pawns like to just move the same rock al lday long from 1 spot to another. See clip.
https://clips.twitch.tv/SincereDarkMoonSeemsGood
Two bits of feedback --
1. Pawns don't seem to be using the new opportunistic hauling as much as I would like. eg After a battle outside with loot lying everywhere (not forbidden), they walked past it all back to the base.
2. I had a meteor land a little way from the base, and set it to be mined. It is frustrating to see a miner take the trip there, hit it once, then decide he wants to play horseshoes and starts heading back to base. I have to micro him to do that work properly.
Torches and Passive Coolers: They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request. If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them? Often with passive coolers you only need them for a few days, they are in the way but the reward is worth it. If you no longer need it and it has just been filled with a full supply of wood, currently you lose the resources. In some biomes this may not be an issue but in others it truly is. It seems passive coolers along with everything else upon deconstruction should continue to yield resources.
Thank you
Java
Quote from: JavaWho on June 21, 2018, 08:42:55 PM
Torches and Passive Coolers: They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request. If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them?
Something like "turn off" function on them could help a lot.
If you don't need them any more, marking them for decon will suppress refuelling, if I'm reading the most recent change log properly.
not sure if this is intended but i had captured 10 people from a hostile raid, releasing 6 of them raised their faction relation with me to neutral, but i kept 4 prisoners to recruit. later on when they were no longer considered guilty these prisoners left the prison when my pawns milked a muffalo in the doorway (those idiots) and i had my colonists arrest the escaping prisoners... they had never gained their freedom yet when i "captured" them i lost 20 faction rep per arrest.
I just want to know if this is intended/why it would be. especially since they were peaceful arrests
edit: did they leave the milk in the doorway because it was instantly set to prison food?
Also it has always bugged the hell out of me that night owls get -5 for being in darkness
I'd love a chop mature trees order, because i'm a min maxer and individually clicking on every tree every day isn't very fun
Quote from: Lanilor on June 21, 2018, 12:43:16 PM
- Why do smoothed stone walls give +2 beauty when even silver and gold walls give none? This is a way too big boost for mountain bases, also for no costs beside some work.
Because they have no "cost" (besides work), they also have no value. Smoothed floors have higher beauty than constructed floors for the same reason. Although they contribute more to the room's beauty, they don't contribute to wealth, so their effect on impressiveness is (approximately) equivalent.
At least, that's the theory.
Quote from: Mihsan on June 21, 2018, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: JavaWho on June 21, 2018, 08:42:55 PM
Torches and Passive Coolers: They are currently constantly refueled without any materials on deconstruction, nor do passive coolers go away without a deconstruct request. If we cannot get materials back upon deconstruction is it possible to add a bill when or when not to refuel them?
Something like "turn off" function on them could help a lot.
IIRC, buildings that are both refuelable and flickable (fueled generators being the main example) don't get refueled while flicked off, though I'd have to double-check that.
I can confirm there is no toggle on torches and passive coolers.
Some comments based on other's comments, and my own play experience.
- I have literally zero interest in smoothed walls, and will absolutely be using RF's mod if/when it gets updated to 1.0. Why? Because I don't care about beautiful walls. I've lived my whole life without walls that were beautiful, merely functional. Vanilla smoothed walls are not functional in the way that RF's smoothed walls, and constructed walls are; i.e. they allow electrical lines to run under them. The fact that smoothed walls are beautiful and constructed walls are not is also completely nonsensical; Something like RF's mod that walls can be sculpted to add beauty if you want would be better, and having it applicable to both smoothed walls and constructed walls.
- Hostile escape pod pawns: is this a new feature, a bug, or maybe a mod conflict? None of my mods should be touching pawns, but it's possible it's the latter. Would be curious if others are seeing this, as I haven't seen mention of it yet.
- Flickable versions of campfires, torches and passive coolers would be a solid improvement. Sometimes you don't want to deconstruct, because you will want the resource later, in the same spot, with the same settings (in the case of campfires) but you don't want to spend the resources to keep the resource running while you're not using it.
- Opportunistic hauling definitely feels tuned low. As others have mentioned, you'll send a pawn, manually, across the map to harvest a resource, and they'll leave it there. Pawns released from combat will leave clothes, weapons, etc. on the ground even when they're not forbidden, even immediately following the order to strip an enemy pawn. Manual hunting also has this problem; In some cases, it's because a pawn across the map will reserve an item for hauling, but not always.
- Related to the former, the function added back in A17? where you could easily override another pawn on an object seems to be sporadically working at best. You'll sometimes get the "reserved by X" popup, but it'll be grayed out, so you can't override it, and you'll have to manually stop the pawn, then have the pawn you want do the task, then release the original pawn. Sometimes also with groups of items it simply will not allow you to click them, and it'll be because another pawn has reserved something in that group of items. The fix for this may be overly complicated, but I wanted to mention it.
- Doctors would still rather go to bed, eat, or goof off than take care of patients. Sometimes if there are multiple patients, they'll take care of one (generally if micro'd) then go goof off/sleep, leaving the others to wait in beds for care that's not coming.
- Related to the first, I wouldn't mind if there were some way to for patients to self-triage. I really don't want a pawn bed-ridden for literally a single bruise, which happens a lot.
That's all for now.
Just FYI:
-Grenades being used in melee is a bug
-Smoothed walls not allowing wires is a bug
These are gonna get fixed, don't worry too much on them please.
Escape pod pawns can be factionless, but now there is a chance they'll have a faction. You can capture them, or send them home for a relations boost.
We're gonna review opportunistic hauling. We don't want them to do dumb and annoying things but we don't want them to miss too many opportunities either. Maybe we set it too safe.
So is animal tab bugging out for yall? I'd post a screenshot but my wifi is crapshoot and my mobile is running on low enough data already.
so heres a shot from my phone: https://imgur.com/a/0E446Dp
Quote from: Tynan on June 22, 2018, 01:05:02 AM
Just FYI:
-Grenades being used in melee is a bug
-Smoothed walls not allowing wires is a bug
These are gonna get fixed, don't worry too much on them please.
Escape pod pawns can be factionless, but now there is a chance they'll have a faction. You can capture them, or send them home for a relations boost.
We're gonna review opportunistic hauling. We don't want them to do dumb and annoying things but we don't want them to miss too many opportunities either. Maybe we set it too safe.
Sweet. I thought walls were working as intended. I'm back on board, then! Still think beauty should be balanced between constructed walls and smoothed, though; I'm still fine with no beauty, as the utility of not having to mine out the wall only to replace it with a constructed wall was the only reason I really liked RF's mod; The etching and carving parts were a 'nice to have' for later in the colony.
Thanks for clarification on the rest.
Quote from: Tynan on June 22, 2018, 01:05:02 AM
-Grenades being used in melee is a bug
Well thats a relief. Though allowing shooting point blank is still a massive nerf to already useless melee in this game. Its only viable for the AI hordes now.
Another minor, but very annoying problem: Pawns armed with ranged weapons, sent into melee range and specifically told to melee attack, are still firing their weapons. As I often use all nearby colonists without melee weapons (and who are capable of violence) to beat a berserk pawn into submission, this is super, super annoying.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on June 22, 2018, 01:48:23 AM
Another minor, but very annoying problem: Pawns armed with ranged weapons, sent into melee range and specifically told to melee attack, are still firing their weapons. As I often use all nearby colonists without melee weapons (and who are capable of violence) to beat a berserk pawn into submission, this is super, super annoying.
Yeah we're already planning to disable that.
Just wanted to relate a story regarding the new faction relations system which I encountered that I thought might be important:
Caveat: I'm not sure if this is my own ignorance of game mechanics, or if this is something to look into.
Early Game - Captured 3 Hostile Tribals during a raid. Released one intentionally to bring my faction relations with the Hostile tribe up to "0", which was successful. 2 remaining Tribals are now in my prison.
I was forced to move the 2 remaining (and still incapacitated) Tribal prisoners from one prison cell to another. In doing so, I deleted their sleeping spots (which of course de-zoned the room as a "Prison Barracks", and then created two new sleeping spots ones in the new prison cell. I was forced to re-capture them both to move them (drafted a colonist, who moved them to the new cell), and in doing so, my faction relationships plummeted. The faction system counted both as a re-capture of neutrals, causing that faction to become far more hostile than they were originally. I do not recall seeing any options for "rescue", which always appeared for friendlies who were downed/incap'd, and a non-prison hospital bed was available.
Again - if this is my own ignorance of how to move prisoners, please disregard (and I'd love it if someone could tell me how to do it properly); however, this might be of interest to the Devs if it is an unintended consequence with no work-around while 1.0 is still being examined closely.
OK, so I've played several hours now. Started with the initial build and updated as I went.
I like a lot of the changes. It's great to have quests and THANK YOU so much for revamping the caravan component. That was so incredibly frustrating before.
Here are some thoughts:
Food usage - Please add a section similar to drugs for food. If I can tell my colonists not to take specific drugs or when, it would be nice to do the same for food. I hate when my colonists eat the pemmican or survival meals that I'm saving for my caravans. If there was a setting to restrict all colonists from eating certain food types, that would be very helpful.
Transport Pods - These are annoying. It feels like how brutal it was to form caravans in the past. If you have colonists assigned to enter a pod, they will continue to load the pods until they are passed out exhausted. Even worse, if you have a group and a colonist enters the pod early while the other pod is being loaded then the loaded colonist will eventually starve. I almost had this happen where I was loading 60 tuques for a quest and a whole bunch of other items to trade. I ended up reloading.
The work around was to load one pod with all the items, then when it was ready, load 2 other pods with the essentials and the colonists. Launch the colonists first then then items. The problem with this is I can't drop onto another camp, I have to drop onto the tile beside it and walk in. I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say. Definitely needs a revamp.
It would be nice if more than one colonist could load a pod too. That would make it so much faster. However, I understand the ramifications from a coding perspective.
Mechanoids - I agree with others perspective that scythers (melee) are pretty easy to take down. And the big assed dudes are a little too difficult. I had 5 decent to good skilled shooters with excellent assault and sniper rifles barely denting the thing. (that was after the other 3 shotgun guys had to leave for medical reasons).
Allys - I would love to see quests sent by allies give more information than quests sent by neutrals. i.e. a neutral will just tell you there's an item stash. An ally might tell you if it's actually guarded. Also, it would be a nice addition that a caravan at an allied village would be given food so they don't need to consume their own rations.
Caravans - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide a proper letter notification for a caravan arriving at a location. I can't tell you how many times a caravan arrives and I didn't see the small notification because something else was happening. If you do nothing else, this addition would make me happy.
By any chance can we fix the bug/feature,
If you build anything, before it's actually made and it's all highlighted, and you put another object on it, for example, you lay out the walls of your next base, and put the conduits in the walls and such.
The colonists will only build the walls, and the conduits get cancelled. This applies to anything that seems to overlap when building. I definitely remember this not always being a thing.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 22, 2018, 01:52:35 AM
Again - if this is my own ignorance of how to move prisoners, please disregard (and I'd love it if someone could tell me how to do it properly); however, this might be of interest to the Devs if it is an unintended consequence with no work-around while 1.0 is still being examined closely.
I believe if you just leave them, your warden will move them to the newly zoned prison area. Unsure, but I think I recall this happening in the past.
Quote from: Ardshael on June 22, 2018, 02:07:39 AMIf there was a setting to restrict all colonists from eating certain food types, that would be very helpful.
I usually just forbid anything I don't want colonists to touch, like drugs and long-term foods. If selected for a caravan, they will still load up the forbidden items.
New build going up. Lots more tasks over here to do, thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone!
Raw change log below.
------
Caravan BaseJoyGainPerHour 0.31 -> 0.35
Fix: Smoothed stone floors have no market value.
Condensed all the dependent RoomStats into a single worker class driven by a SimpleCurve in the def instead of using complex case-specific math. Adjusted a few numbers. Renamed defaultScore -> roomlessScore to be clearer.
Refactor cleanliness calculations into a SimpleCurve.
Reviewed heat generation from buildings game-wide. Made a new debug output to help analyze it. Some buildings produce heat that didn't before (stoves, etc).
Multi-analyzer advanced component cost 2->1.
Fix: Various recipes have no work speed stat, and so work speed is unaffected by injury or traits. -Make chemfuel at organic bench. -Make stone blocks. -Burn drugs/apparel, cremate corpse. To fix, added a UnskilledProductionSpeed stat that is affected by health conditions only.
Reworked brewing speed into drug cooking speed, applied it to brewing, pekoe and smokeleaf. Smokeleaf making is no longer weirdly divorced from all health conditions. Renamed drug production speed to drug synthesis speed to distinguish it better from drug cooking. Reworked recipe skill debug output into a table.
Incendiary launcher can now target locations. Minigun can no longer target locations.
Reduced various infection chances (around 25%).
Watermill cost 340/20/1 -> 280 wood, 80 steel, 3 components.
Increase animal gestation times roughly 20% game-wide.
Adjusted some constructionSkillPrerequisites and UI icon draw sizes. Campfire no longer has a construction skill requirement. Short bow crafting skill requirement 3->2.
Saguaro cactus wood yield 10 -> 20.
Minor text fixes.
Added TranslationHandle attributes where appropriate. Translation handles are now sanitized properly.
Added translation report syntax suggestion for helpTexts.0. Moved some code from Pawn_RotationTracker to FaceTarget() so it can be reused by e.g. JobDriver_SitFacingBuilding which fixes some rotation issues.
Finished working on translation handles. Moved translation handles code to a separate file. Fixed some issues. Translation report now suggests using translation handles instead of raw indexes.
Fix 3451: Faction Kinship of Abetra of def TribeRough has no usable PawnGroupMakers
Added a sound that plays when the build script is finished.
I played several games so far, I'd say 25+ hours. I played only river maps.
WATER:
New water mechanics are really fun. But I would like there to be a visual feedback when somebody is wet. Possibly make their lower half darker, or make them drip water.
Something that seemed a little odd was that a river affected me the same in boreal forest when it was -17°C as in arid shrubland when it was 34°C. What I think would be really interesting and made the gameplay more engaging would be if the soaking wet debuff gave a debuff to cold resistance (perhaps even negate cold resistance of clothes).
To balance this, shallow water could inflict only "wet" debuff, that would be only half as wet, while deep water would inflict "soaking wet".
I think that this would make rivers even more interesting gameplay element in cold biomes.
Watermill generator seemed balanced cost-wise (340 wood at the time, catus 10 wood at the time) on arid shrublands map. A way to balance it better on maps with lot's of wood could possibly be making it a little bit bigger/harder to place.
ANIMALS:
I like the training changes, and that animals can have diseases. Makes them more precious. I managed to tame some herbivores, but had my skilled tamer mauled by bears several times (8% chance). I didn't even try to tame a warg 50% attack chance. I'm not sure if animal attack chance is affected by animal handling skill, but I guess I would like it to be. It would make it more rewarding having a high skilled animal tamer and more dangerous taming predators with less skilled pawns.
RAIDS/COMBAT:
(Cassandra extreme, no killboxes)
I had a lot of fun with the new event where raiders attack from different sides. Those battles felt like they rewarded me for strategy and tactics. Some of the most fun I had with combat.
I also like the split of scythers to lancers/scythers - makes for a more tactical combat, where melee is perfectly viable. Poison ship radius is a great change too.
A combat event that didn't feel that great - sieges. Seemed the only viable strategy is to attack them straight up? A had a weak colony, that wouldn't do very well in a straight up combat. Siege came and the text read 'or you can't try to wait them out'. I never tried that (716 hours of Rimworld says Steam), but they kept getting drop pods with more and more shells. Was this because it was extreme difficulty? If so, very well, all is good and ignore this point. If not - new players might feel betrayed on easier difficulties. I get that sieges are supposed to draw you out, but there should be an alternative - surviving the shelling (which is quite fun actually, so it would be a shame if the game forced you to 'go get them'). I realise that this isn't really a 1.0 feedback, but since the game is getting a official release...
I actually really like the new 'shot deflected' mechanics. But it doesn't feel great when bolt action rifle/greatbow/sniper rifle shots are deflected by regular clothes. Those major high impact shots not connecting in this way feels a little bit cheap.
Flak vest/Flak pants costing cloth can be a problem on some maps like boreal or tundra. I dont think it let me use leather. That can be frustrating especially when I was unlucky with traders.
OTHER:
I like the new skill level requirements, as well as slowdown of growing. Research feels better.
UI - in the assign tab, there are drop down menus for type of medical care a pawn is supposed to recieve and and type of response when attacked. I would personally prefer, if instead of a dropdown menu, there was a menu similar to the 'health tab' of a pawn (where you click either glitterworld med/normal med/herbal med/no med/no care). As I use the 'assign' tab to assign medicine, this would be less clicks. The downside is, that it would be less readable at a glance. But on the other hand, that could be compensated by making the currently selected option in a nice visible white box and the not selected choices greyed out.
......
Anyway, having a lot of fun with this 1.0. If I didn't mention something, it means I can't think of a way to improve it :).
Quote from: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 07:21:08 AM
New water mechanics are really fun. But I would like there to be a visual feedback when somebody is wet. Possibly make their lower half darker, or make them drip water.
I prefer soaking wet debuff be removed. I expected for it to have some kind of benefits such as cool down pawns during heat wave if it's going to mess with moods. Also expected my pawns to get the same debuff in rain but that doesn't seem to happen. Really have to create restricted areas against rivers if it's something you don't want to deal with (I rather not) since a pawn isn't always going to choose a bridge, nor should they have to.
Quote from: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 08:48:39 AMI prefer soaking wet debuff be removed. I expected for it to have some kind of benefits such as cool down pawns during heat wave if it's going to mess with moods.
I have to say that I like it - it makes rivers more meaningful. It makes bridges meaningful. But it's really strange and counterintuitive that 'soaking wet' affects the player exactly the same way in freezing temperatures as well as scorching hot climates. If water actually cooled down pawns - which could be a benefit or a detriment, it would make rivers an actual part of the gameplay, not just a 'you can't build here and you shouldn't walk here' area.
Also I would love to see traits tied to water - aquaphile (+mood in water) and aquaphobe (straight up refuses to enter water, except when on fire), fast swimmer (+speed in water), hardy (doesn't mind being wet, being cold/being hot affects them less).
The thing is, I found out that now that rivers aren't just nuisance, I really like playing with them. The game mechanics of hot/cold are already part of the game, it would be a missed opportunity not to tie them to water too. Also If I was a new player, I would be scratching my head why crossing a creek in an arid shrubland is about as problematic as crossing a huge river in a tundra.
Even better - rivers already generate with shallow water fords (even the huge ones). At least all of the ones I had on my maps did. If it was less detrimental to cross through shallows than through deep water, it would add another layer of gameplay. Do I REALLY need the berries on the other side of the river? Can I afford to swim there in this temperature? Should I invest in researching bridges?
On two maps I had huge rivers with an ancient asphalt road. This now generates a bridge over the water (extremely cool feature btw) and I noticed that the pawn's AI prioritize the bridge, even when the angle of the bridge meant that they had to take a pretty considerable detour. So I'd say the pathfinding is pretty much up to the task of having rivers be more "interesting". Overall I was quite pleasantly surprised with how little my pawns entered water.
I guess I really fail to see the downside to this, as player can always choose to play on a map without a river.
Quote from: Jibbles on June 22, 2018, 07:51:45 AM
Quote from: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 07:21:08 AM
New water mechanics are really fun. But I would like there to be a visual feedback when somebody is wet. Possibly make their lower half darker, or make them drip water.
I prefer soaking wet debuff be removed. I expected for it to have some kind of benefits such as cool down pawns during heat wave if it's going to mess with moods. Also expected my pawns to get the same debuff in rain but that doesn't seem to happen. Really have to create restricted areas against rivers if it's something you don't want to deal with (I rather not) since a pawn isn't always going to choose a bridge, nor should they have to.
I second that idea of being cooled down in hot biomes and chilled in snow biomes
I just got a sappers raid and it was... frustrating.
First of all direct power of that raid was much higher than my colony could beat in fair fight. I have 11 tribal fighters with rifles (3 more brawlers are off the map with caravan), 4 trained dogs and 3 stolen mortars; enemy have 26 people with doomsday and rocket launchers, power armors, shielded brawlers and better weapons in general. I had like 30 savescum attempts and 95% of them ended with my total loss. One time I won just because raiders nuked themselves with doomsday launcher and it was easy to beat them after that with minimal loses (only like 80% of my people downed, 1 dead and 30% of base destroyed); another "win" was with also some extreme luck, but most of my base burned and most people died. I understand that Randy Intense should provide such experience, but it feels too much even for him. I even suspect that something is off with how game sees my success in this game because after that raid I got 21 manhunting megaslots (when all of my base is "outdoors" w/o walls and my people still healing in beds) and also that sapper raid was not just "randomly stronger" - I reloaded out of just the same type of raid just couple of days before all of this...
But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?
Also frustrating thing: priority for repairing damaged things above building new things by construction pawns. Yeah: my base has no tables, no cooking stove, no beds, no doors, but my pawn prefers to repair countless damaged walls above that. Cracks in walls are not an emergency!
Thanks for the note Mihsan, very useful. Just as info, you can remove the home zone from an area and pawns won't repair there any more.
Quote from: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 08:48:39 AM
I guess I really fail to see the downside to this, as player can always choose to play on a map without a river.
Because I'd like to play on maps with rivers, and maybe add some mods which add huge rivers or lakes.
I get where you're coming from in your post. For me, it's just one of those things that needs quite a bit of work to be added and logical. Things like visually showing that they got soaking wet is unlikely to be implemented. Just kind of feel like it'll be a popular opinion once the dust settles and if no changes were made to it. Be cool to see some traits for it though!
-10 for 6 hours is too much for something that is out of my control. Haven't played too much of 1.0 but already had issues with them choosing water over bridge. Remember, there are other things at hand like psychic drone and stuff taking big mood hits, all of it stacks up. For now, it feels like a cheap hit, especially when you come across something like shallow water in a cave or elsewhere on map.
(https://i.imgur.com/jVonyK4.png)
In my experience, the rivers are a bit puny in several maps generated so far. Maybe just having bad luck there. So when they do cross the puny river it was never worth the mood hit.
Quote from: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 07:21:08 AMA combat event that didn't feel that great - sieges. Seemed the only viable strategy is to attack them straight up? A had a weak colony, that wouldn't do very well in a straight up combat. Siege came and the text read 'or you can't try to wait them out'. I never tried that (716 hours of Rimworld says Steam), but they kept getting drop pods with more and more shells. Was this because it was extreme difficulty? If so, very well, all is good and ignore this point. If not - new players might feel betrayed on easier difficulties. I get that sieges are supposed to draw you out, but there should be an alternative - surviving the shelling (which is quite fun actually, so it would be a shame if the game forced you to 'go get them').
Admittedly, this experience is from back in A17, but I had a "Some Difficulty" Cassandra run in which I just let a Siege shell me for a while, (I didn't have adequate ranged weapons to assault, but did have turrets) and I was able to reasonably keep up with putting out fires and repairing damaged stuff. I just had to restrict pawns to stay under roof as I would during Toxic Fallout, and I did receive some injuries, but the siegers eventually attacked without taking what I felt to be an unreasonably long time, and I was able to fend them off with my turret defenses. My base had to go without power for a while when they took out my solar panels, but it wasn't devastating.
Quote from: Jibbles on June 22, 2018, 09:25:39 AM
-10 for 6 hours is too much for something that is out of my control. Haven't played too much of 1.0 but already had issues with them choosing water over bridge. ater in a cave or elsewhere on map.
I agree that having -10 for 6 hours doesn't make sense in many cases. That's why I suggested having shallow water inflict a mild 'wet' debuff and deep water inflict the serious 'soaking wet' debuff.
Another solution that comes to mind is having a time offset, where upon entering water (even better, shallow water), the pawn wouldn't become wet if they exited within X amount of seconds. In theory, this would filter out all the cases of 'stepped in a puddle while hauling wood' or 'clipped shallow water when stepping on a bridge'.
Overall I agree that at the moment, the debuff can feel too punishing in many cases. Doesn't make much sense for pawns that swam across a lake to have the same debuff as those who stepped into a puddle.
About sieges: only first one is tough. Then you steal some mortars and can fire back on next ones.
Also one time I fired 3 incendiary shells at siege before it could build it's mortars and hit only one guy. Still they all stoped building and decided to attack my base - this might be a bug (act like they lost all mortars if take damage and mortars not built yet? not sure). If they would keep that siege it would be much harder fight for me.
i too feel a bit about the deflection and wet
clothing should have both deflection and damage mitigation as 2 separate things
a shirt has 0 deflection unless made out of somethin special, and poor damage reduction
a flak vest might have 10% deflection, but more damage reduciton
a shiny chest plate might have 50% deflection but average damage reduction
shallow water - wet
chest-deep water - soaked
deep water - drenched
drenched - lowers personal temp by 10 fades to ;
soaked - lowers personal temp by 6, fades to ;
wet - lowers personal temp by 4
shade also lowers personal temp by 6
and wind multiplies these by up to 200%, so a pawn can seek cooler temp in shade and in water, and the breeze too can lower your temp, so extreme desert survival can be possible but also ice sheet survival can be even harder
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:54:47 AM
About sieges: only first one is tough. Then you steal some mortars and can fire back on next ones.
Also one time I fired 3 incendiary shells at siege before it could build it's mortars and hit only one guy. Still they all stoped building and decided to attack my base - this might be a bug (act like they lost all mortars if take damage and mortars not built yet? not sure). If they would keep that siege it would be much harder fight for me.
I don't think that sieges are too powerful in general, I just think that having a first siege fire 46+ projectiles is a little too much. Maybe if the number of drops they recieve with extra projectiles scaled with colony wealth, it would make for a better experience. Yeah, this isn't a 1.0 thing per se, but it's something that affected my playthrough so I figgured I'd mention it.
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:54:47 AM
About sieges: only first one is tough. Then you steal some mortars and can fire back on next ones.
Also one time I fired 3 incendiary shells at siege before it could build it's mortars and hit only one guy. Still they all stoped building and decided to attack my base - this might be a bug (act like they lost all mortars if take damage and mortars not built yet? not sure). If they would keep that siege it would be much harder fight for me.
For tribal starts I consider a siege inside 1st game year to be the single most threatening raid type on extreme. You're outnumbered, outgunned, and if raiders haven't turned up with a sniper yet, you have no realistic way to lift the siege without exposing multiple pawns to death on biomes that aren't animal-friendly.
Sappers certainly force altered base designs and are one of the hardest counters to dedicated kill areas. I don't think their actions are a problem, though yes on high difficulties you're going to need a setup that lets you isolate some of them at a time for shooting if you don't have your own triple rockets or ally call-ins.
Mechanoids are awful. Centipedes sponge for days. In the game sense, literally. Yes, I can kite them. I was able to constantly hit one w/o taking damage yesterday...I had to send pawns back to back to eat and sleep because constant gunfire from a few of them couldn't kill it and I was in mental break risk. It absorbed over half of the > 100 11 damage hits I put on it (not counting missed shots). This is the only enemy type that I can't find a reliable way to kill quickly. Maybe one exists but I haven't seen any evidence. Once their numbers go up, you can't catch them all in EMP. How is the new armor interacting with explosives? Maybe that's a path worth attempting.
If it is a bug or intentional I also created the siege guys to raid before building their mortar by attacking them before hand. I think the fire destroyed the building mortar and caused it. Either way I predicted that corner would get drop ships/siegers so I already had a defense bunker set up there and they wouldn't of been firing at my base.
I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.
I haven't gotten sappers yet but I can't wait to see what that is like. My base is kinda built like attack on titan. Many layers and fall back spots and all in stone. I hold open doors between raids so pawns don't get slowed down. I'm up to 8 colonist now and my wealth should attract them very shortly I bet.
A trick question: if crossing river causes "wet" debuff - then why rain does not do the same?
"A trick question: if crossing river causes "wet" debuff - then why rain does not do the same?"
Is it really needed to make it more unpleasant? Game should be fun, next thing you know we'll be crafting umbrellas and then toilet paper, more doesn't mean better ;o
Q: Did anyone have trouble with scrolling speed being too fast?
btw, old Silver graphic was more climatic and rimworldish, than the new one. Why work on something that was perfect?
New wind turbine looks worse. idk why work on graphics which where a great fit and perfect as they were.
Animals becoming wild? Why is there need for so much repetition.
Quote from: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 10:24:59 AM
I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.
Calculate risk to cross the river for resources honestly sounds like a neat idea. Just got to say that's not my experience. I don't have that decision. A simple example is hunting animals. I don't want to keep track of animal's locations after ordering the job since the animals will cross rivers. Not entirely sure if pawns just wander off in rivers without any reasons yet. When you do decide to unforbid resources those are several pawns going across the river from various locations on map. Sounds silly but I also do have aesthetic reasons against the mood hit as well lol
Quote from: Jibbles on June 22, 2018, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 10:24:59 AM
I like the debuff for being wet. It made me have to calculate risk reward of crossing rivers for resources prior to bridge tech. After bridge tech it gave me motivation to lay pathways throughout the entire map for my pawns to safely cross.
Calculate risk to cross the river for resources honestly sounds like a neat idea. Just got to say that's not my experience. I don't have that decision. A simple example is hunting animals. I don't want to keep track of animal's locations after ordering the job since the animals will cross rivers. Not entirely sure if pawns just wander off in rivers without any reasons yet. When you do decide to unforbid resources those are several pawns going across the river from various locations on map. Sounds silly but I also do have aesthetic reasons against the mood hit as well lol
Well in my experience all creatures and humans tend to avoid rivers unless directed to do combat. Hunters will often place themselves on the river to hunt instead of equally good zones on a bridge for example. That to me is a little buggy but acceptable since it was only likely on my play through with a huge river. On a normal river you are looking at creatures kinda staying on one side or the other and some rng moments when they get chased over but not often.
The mood debuff is easily avoided on all characters besides your hunter. Fair enough though because hunting should lead to some possible uncomfortable situations.
Quote from: ashaffee on June 22, 2018, 11:28:48 AM
Well in my experience all creatures and humans tend to avoid rivers unless directed to do combat. Hunters will often place themselves on the river to hunt instead of equally good zones on a bridge for example. That to me is a little buggy but acceptable since it was only likely on my play through with a huge river. On a normal river you are looking at creatures kinda staying on one side or the other and some rng moments when they get chased over but not often.
The mood debuff is easily avoided on all characters besides your hunter. Fair enough though because hunting should lead to some possible uncomfortable situations.
It's not easily avoided, and it's a strange debuff as is. That's my complaint. Animals cross rivers more often than you think. Two hares crossed the river together right before I made that last post. They weren't fleeing or anything like that, they were middle of map open field. Here's a snippet of a squirrel crossing at the bottom right after I read your post. Not sure why video came out that way but oh well. Hunters already deal with raiders entering edge of map, predators etc.
https://youtu.be/14CM-zOmGHU
I always wonder why do ppl need to digitally suffer so much, instead of making it pleasantly fun. We could make a debuff about everything, just to make it more stupid.
Regarding the decision to make items decay when outside but still under a roof, I feel that this may have been implemented hastily. Please see this image for details. The survival meal on the right is fine, despite being in a 3x3 enclosure with doors held open, but the survival meal on the left is decaying, despite 9 tiles between it and the outside.
(https://i.imgur.com/6bCwyrt.png)
I would like to suggest that it be changed to if an item is within 2 tiles of the outside, decay is possible. Closed door? Fine. Held open door? Better have 2 tiles of roof extending or it will decay anyway. Single wall pillar with 5 tiles of roof on each side? Items within 2 tiles of the edge can decay.
Quote from: Julia on June 22, 2018, 11:57:39 AM
I always wonder why do ppl need to digitally suffer so much, instead of making it pleasantly fun. We could make a debuff about everything, just to make it more stupid.
I don't see it as digital suffer. I see it just like playing a game of chess. A fun series of calculated decisions that if I get wrong I can and will loose. But I find no joy in winning when I know I never had a chance for loss.
QuoteI just got a sappers raid and it was... frustrating.
First of all direct power of that raid was much higher than my colony could beat in fair fight. I have 11 tribal fighters with rifles (3 more brawlers are off the map with caravan), 4 trained dogs and 3 stolen mortars; enemy have 26 people with doomsday and rocket launchers, power armors, shielded brawlers and better weapons in general.
That's weird. I'm playing Cass extreme, year 3, wealth ~150k, have 12 colonists, last raid was outlander sappers, they were 25 (https://imgur.com/sVfa71f) and at that point i'm starting to have clearly better gears and bionic parts than the raiders. What is harder in 1.0 is somtimes
they fight to death instead of fleeing, it ended up as an epic battle over the bedroom. I kind of like these new strategies. Fleeing raiders are rather harmless, unless some mods like run and gun give them a minimal defense.
Quote from: Ambaire on June 22, 2018, 12:29:55 PMThe survival meal on the right is fine, despite being in a 3x3 enclosure with doors held open, but the survival meal on the left is decaying, despite 9 tiles between it and the outside.
It is exactly how it work for temperature calculation for inside/outside. Alternative would be to create complex system(s) which would calculate a lot of things all over the map and that is not a good option too.
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:03:59 AM
But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?
What was the mining level of those sappers? If around 15, I think it's optimal that they break the wall fast.
Why not leave it simple - under roof = not decaying.
I don't like some of those changes, I feel they are overcomplicating on what rimworld is amazing. Simplicity wins and makes the game enjoyable.
Sure mods will come, but do you really need it in this game? Just like animals getting wild again, why do we need this constant repetition.
You could make walls crumble over time - so they need constant repairs, floors too, tables too. Plants would need to be watered and fertizilzed and ... too much =]
I don't really mind decay happening when items are outside that much, but I ve got to admit - having it simple - if the roof exists over item - it doesn't decay, was much more convenient. It forces me to construct ugly initial sheds to store stuff and that fact irks me a bit.
He explained the animal one. It was to nerf the strategy to just build 100 animals and just kill all raiders with them. You can still do this with that feature installed but you will need to devote resources to keeping those animals loyal with multiple trainers. I find this reasonable because tbh accidently I'd have 100+ animals if I didn't pay attention. I'd set a zone for all the animals I didn't want to be In the raiders path for a quick disposal method but the damage they were able to do as just throw away was insane.
Balancing that relieves the thought in your head, "If only I exploited animals that playthrough I wouldn't have lost". Which lets you come up with new fun strategies on how to play.
I don't see any reason for the roof decay thing. It is awkward but personally I don't notice it =\
the animal part needs a better function than just re trained them- thats just a chore - either made them with traits and perhaps some kind of worn off debuff after a couple of fights in a way that they cant group up fight after fight
Or cap the size of how many animals can you run as an army, the other one could be if the animal pack go beyond certain size or the pack has too different species just made them attack each other randomly or even the master
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 22, 2018, 01:18:51 PM
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:03:59 AM
But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?
What was the mining level of those sappers? If around 15, I think it's optimal that they break the wall fast.
I don't like the internal inconsistency. IMO "mining" should not beat out explosives to break a fortification, and it's awkward that AI raiders can do things like "mine walls" and "ignite" while player pawns have no such option.
Even making AI raiders fire into the walls would be a bit more genuine of a representation, if they can manage not to hit each other.
Don't know if it's bug or feature - animals dying to toxic fallout (or having serious/extreme ~9x% and getting shot) are immediately 'Rotting' (their corpses don't have 'fresh' state)
My guess its another "make life harsher" thingy 1.0 brought upon us. Though i can't really argue with it - eating animals that died from toxic overdose can't be healthy in any way.
Even with buildup, they are immediately rot. I had a cougar charge through a corridor into an otherwise walled in base to "hunt" a colonist (of course without notification, in contrast to every other potentially pawn killing event in the game). Since it was visible I reacted and killed it, but even though it was running straight at me until the moment it died it was immediately rotted.
It'd be nice to have some notification for when toxic buildup gets to minor or something so I don't have to constantly manually check individual pawns to see if it's time to re-zone.
The color pallet for factions seems to be awfully "close". Ex. Purple & "slightly browner" purple one friendly the other not. Yellow (friendly) and "a little whiter yellow". This makes finding an initial location tough!
The wildlife tab is nice, but not really necessary. It would be handier to have a clothing (and weapons?) inventory so I can avoid tattered clothing with some efficiency. :)
Thanks
PS - Love the game - best I have found in the last 2 or 3 years.
Still its better than getting a ninja fix that makes people who ate the meat from animals with any kind of toxic buildup severity sick, for example. I wouldn't even be whining if that was so - its kinda common sense to not eat toxic stuff.
That does make toxic fallout, one of the most annoying events in RW ever even more annoying. If you don't have indoor growzones or a fat food storage by the time it happens - you're kind of doomed. Or you also could just ditch the map for a quadrum or two.
Quote from: einie on June 22, 2018, 02:04:04 PM
The color pallet for factions seems to be awfully "close". Ex. Purple & "slightly browner" purple one friendly the other not.
Check to make sure you're on the latest push. This was definitely fixed in my current colony, even though it was started before the fix. One faction was a dark, vibrant blue, another was a lime green. Very distinct.
Also noticed the fallout thing; Though it seems maybe they're okay if you slaughter them? I 'rescued' a few camels and slaughtered them just fine, but one of them did insta-rot. It's possible that one died of fallout before I could slaughter, though.
concerning animal training, I noticed that the pet you start with needs to be trained to keep the obedience they start with up, that kind of sucked in the colony beginning when I am scraping for food. The solution for me is to not start off with animals, but maybe a more clever in game one could work out better.
I'm sure this was already reported, but...
Pawns deconstructing smoothed walls will stop and start repairing them instead.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 02:05:47 PM
Still its better than getting a ninja fix that makes people who ate the meat from animals with any kind of toxic buildup severity sick, for example. I wouldn't even be whining if that was so - its kinda common sense to not eat toxic stuff.
That does make toxic fallout, one of the most annoying events in RW ever even more annoying. If you don't have indoor growzones or a fat food storage by the time it happens - you're kind of doomed. Or you also could just ditch the map for a quadrum or two.
To be honest i like this solution. Animals that are < 'Moderate', are normally having 'fresh' status, so clearing map early of animals can give You some food stockpile, same with wandering animals.
Another question : why infection killed my colonist before it reached 100% ? Colonist had 'Extreme' 87% (ok he would die since he had immunity 82% but still i had hope...)
Was he otherwise healthy? My guess is something else was affecting said infected colonist, lowering his consciousness or something. Infection going extreme lowered it even more, below the death treshold and it killed him. Happens also with some drugs too.
This -> "thats just a chore"
Don't make ppl play the game how you want it to be played. There is a reason mods exist that change basic functions. I see no problem with 100 animals, if you can keep them fed. That is called 'late game', and it will always be present. You finally get to the better guns, better resource management.
If ppl want it to be that hard, why not make only one weapon available - a bow. This will make the game harder surely. But it will miss the point, that eventually you will get to a more comfortable position against raids and such. I see no problem with having 100 animals for dealing with raids. Most of them would die anyway.
This isn't a story generator, this is a colony simulator, even if someone would want it to be different. And still, there is no story in doing repetitive chores. This is the moment to listen to feedback, mods will remove it (would be geat if game allowed more customization in itself), maybe next update will remove it just like the Tornado - some ppl liked it, but there was no point in it.
Fun, not chore.
I just noticed: chat and recruit got significantly creepier with the 1.0 update. So far, my colonist has tried to recruit a tribal by... (not all at once)
-talking about his sexual prowess
-asking about her pubic hair
-promising love
-discussing his genitals
-and encouraging Bat to talk about 'lovin.
When did my colonist become such a skeeve-ball? Is it because they're the same age and compatible genders, or because he has Creepy Breathing?
Quote from: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 02:29:27 PM
Was he otherwise healthy? My guess is something else was affecting said infected colonist, lowering his consciousness or something. Infection going extreme lowered it even more, below the death treshold and it killed him. Happens also with some drugs too.
He had some patched wounds/cracks/bruises and another infection on 'Major' with +10% immunity over infection.
Afaik when pawns die due to drugs it's caused by overdose roll and not because consciousness going below 0 (dont know if it's possible)
Consciousness at 0 will kill them. Reddit has plenty of threads where a weakened pawn smoked a joint, resulting it being the last thing the pawn did.
Exactly. Overdose doesn't kill them, it only has a chance to cause chemical damage to the brain or liver, based on drugs used. Consciousness and most other parameters below certain treshold (i think 10%?) kills an otherwise healthy pawn.
I think you need literally 0 to die. Also only vital parts reaching 0 kill. If pawn's "head efficiency" hits 0, pawn dies. If pawn's "shoulder efficiency" hits 0, the arm isn't usable can recover if otherwise possible and the pawn will live.
Same goes if one lung hits 0% but not the other (pawn will survive this if the other lung works), while liver or heart hitting 0% is instant death.
Quote from: gadjung on June 22, 2018, 02:26:18 PMAnother question : why infection killed my colonist before it reached 100% ? Colonist had 'Extreme' 87% (ok he would die since he had immunity 82% but still i had hope...)
I am no the only one? Here is my bug report:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41941.0
Yeah you're not the only one, because its not a bug. Combination of blood loss, infection and maybe other stuff like pain, malnutrition, brain damage, drug use, other diseases can really easily lower pawn's vital stats below death treshold. At that point it doesn't matter even if he had already maxed immunity.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 03:27:21 PM
Yeah you're not the only one, because its not a bug. Combination of blood loss, infection and maybe other stuff like pain, brain damage, drug use, other diseases can really easily lower pawn's vital stats below death treshold. At that point it doesn't matter even if he had already maxed immunity.
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.
Here I am again with rather lengthy notes, but first I would to counter some of other people's arguments:
- First and foremost, don't go complaining about a feature/balance without actually playing and testing the game, its pointless if you don't even know how it plays out.
- Second, I don't get why people play on the worse difficulties and then come complaining about it being unfair, wtf did you expect? Its meant to be unfair...The game offers a good enough range of difficulties and storytelling, stop choosing one to scratch your ego and pick the one you want to play at.
- Animal training: if any of you actually played, you you find that its actually a minor annoying, painlessly to say the least, as long as they remain ticked you wont even notice, and to "untrain" an animal, you have untick it and wait for long ass while. The only point that needs addressing is picking the most appropriate food while doing so, so using kibble instead of valuable raw food or meals.
- River crossing: again another minor annoyance, and if you're smart you could use it to your advantage on defenses. The moodlet is high but doesn't even last that long, though I agree a temperature modifier would be nice. The bigger problem I see is pathfinding, because at the moment it only seems to take time into consideration, where as it would be ideal preferred paths, like for example preferring bridges over river, avoiding bug infested caves, poisoned and burning areas. Though admittedly this is much more complicated than what it seems.
- Item decay: also another minor annoyance people are taking way out of proportion, the system now takes several factors into consideration, if you leave something unroofed soaking in water, its gonna decay much faster than leaving something just roofed. The roofed item decay its actually pretty slow, so its still very viable to make outside sheds for early storage, not so in the long run.
- Rough/polished stone walls: never really made any sense to me, why have smooth be prettier and take so much more work than actually building stuff. Since in my eyes they were always supposed to be only make-do, bare-bones, make-shift lesser versions than actually building walls and floors, something that you do to survive in caves and mines.The problem with this system, also comes from the fact that walls only have resistance/flammability/wealth parameters, so there isn't really that much meaning to differentiate between them, and also no space for middle ground "not so bad" walls.
Now that's out of the way, here is a list of minor stuff I've found:
- For inspiration, currently there only shows an icon on pawn portrait, that you need rover to find out what it is (if you forgot the message), and no mention of it anywhere else, maybe mention it other places and more detail on what they do, I don't think they show up anywhere on the pawn's info panel.
- Pigs carry 70, while alpacas carry only 35, seems odd.
- Hearts attack are pretty brutal, possibly going through all you medicine if you're unaware, maybe give more description on the message or more options for how to medicate it.
- Autovents really should be a thing, making smart use of heat generating stuff is pretty cool, but pretty easy to miss and a hassle to do manually.
- I don't know if this is the case, but caravans should be able to tend themselves/prisoners, currently I had to create another base (in the desert of all places) to setup a temporary camp so they could heal, so it would be nice if they could heal themselves while in caravan state, by stopping or setting up camp.
- Some of the crafting benches that use different skills, like for example medicine making, its somewhat annoying that they fit all into the same crafting work order.
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 03:29:21 PM
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.
Are you sure not a single of those stats is below 10%? And no diseases\infections hit 100%? No vital organs badly damaged or something? If so - then yeah, its a bug alright. In that case you should post a screen or a vid in bugs thread, maybe also post your save for devs to take a look at.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 22, 2018, 03:33:13 PM
snip
If something feels minor or doesn't annoy you personally, that doesn't neccessary make it true for everyone else. And i also don't think its right to go assuming people here didn't even try playing, before coming here just to complain. RW offers really different experiences based on both difficulty and person's playstyle.
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 03:29:21 PM
But here is the catch: all known vital stats (blood, food, pain, councious, breathing...) might be very hight and pawn still dies. There really might be a bug.
Is it though, you'd need to review the save and pawn conditions just before he died, what exactly did he die of?
It could just be that he reached 0 healthy (maybe its conscious, the first bar down left). And from what it seems, if he had two infections, he was in a pretty bad shape.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 22, 2018, 03:36:01 PM
Is it though, you'd need to review the save and pawn conditions just before he died, what exactly did he die of?
It could just be that he reached 0 healthy (maybe its conscious, the first bar down left). And from what it seems, if he had two infections, he was in a pretty bad shape.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 22, 2018, 03:33:55 PM
Are you sure not a single of those stats is below 10%? And no diseases\infections hit 100%? No vital organs badly damaged or something? If so - then yeah, its a bug alright. In that case you should post a screen or a vid in bugs thread, maybe also post your save for devs to take a look at.
I literally put a link of my bug report: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41941.0 . All information is there.
QuoteSecond, I don't get why people play on the worse difficulties and then come complaining about it being unfair, wtf did you expect? Its meant to be unfair...The game offers a good enough range of difficulties and storytelling, stop choosing one to scratch your ego and pick the one you want to play at.
"Challenge/difficulty" and "unfair" are distinct concepts. It has already been pointed out that lack of agency = skill equalization of outcome, quoted paragraph is disingenuous. If perfect prep/execution doesn't solve an encounter, the encounter is not "difficult". It's anti-gameplay and should be removed for the same reason meteors falling on people and killing them was removed.
Speaking of vents, where are they? I looked under temperature and there was no option to build vents. I had steel.
Honestly, I have found the "Forageability" and the "Forageability Rate" pretty pointless. When food is over, berries (100%) sustain the caravan for only few hours, meanwhile agave fruit (25%) is so slow to increase, that doesn't affect the durability of a caravan in any way. I think this part need a rebalance. In any case, you can't administer this scarse resources, for the the most needy pawns.
Quote from: Dargaron on June 22, 2018, 02:58:12 PM
I just noticed: chat and recruit got significantly creepier with the 1.0 update. So far, my colonist has tried to recruit a tribal by... (not all at once)
-talking about his sexual prowess
-asking about her pubic hair
-promising love
-discussing his genitals
-and encouraging Bat to talk about 'lovin.
When did my colonist become such a skeeve-ball? Is it because they're the same age and compatible genders, or because he has Creepy Breathing?
Lol! It would be funny if the creepy breathing trait influenced what the pawn said. Although not as creepy, I had a male colonist with Tunneler and Nimble behave as though he was Abrasive. Was pretty annoying to have him harass and insult the other two female colonists that I had. He was negative social with my female pawn but he kept trying to romance her by "playfully" making fun of her in some way or another and she wasn't having it. It would be ideal if romance attempts were tweaked a bit more, imo. Such as if the pawns are negative social at that time, no romance attempt will be made at all until their social is increased to a certain amount first. I definitely miss Psychology mod in 1.0. :P
On a side note, just lost a colony in Phoebe rough (permadeath naked brutality) due to "random" events that didn't feel so random. Had about several days left in fall but it was already negative degrees outside. The pack of alphabeavers that came through completely devastated what little trees I had left on the map (tundra). I couldn't really kill them with my pawns before they ate all the trees because my pawns were pretty much naked and caught hypothermia pretty quickly. Keeping an eye on my remaining wood supply, I kept the campfire running for warmth while I scrambled to research solar panels. Was able to build the solar panels and heaters just as my campfire dies, I breathe a sigh of relief. I think to myself that I'm going to be okay. Suddenly, eclipse. My best hunter, Aster, catches frostbite to her fourth toe or something like that and quickly loses it before my other colonist, Jasper, can tend to her. My third colonist, Bella, was out fulfilling a trade request caravan (they wanted two dusters for masterwork flak pants and an excellent gun :D) got food poisoning (thanks, berries!) about a day and a half away. She manages to survive the food poisoning but is malnourished. I keep an eye on her and she almost makes it back to the colony. Her caravan was literally touching the home tile when she falls due to malnutrition. I send Jasper to help Bella because he was somewhat healthy and wasn't missing any body parts, yet. Bella dies as Jasper carries her back to their frozen home. I said goodbye to Snowflake, my polar bear before exiting the game and shaking my head at disbelief.
I was only able to tame and somewhat begin training one polar bear before my game ended. I don't mind that the animals now lose training over time, but I feel as though it's a bit excessive at the moment. I don't know if the animals lose training by failed training attempts or only if the handler isn't able to train an animal for a day but I was at 2/3 Obedience training on Snowflake and she ended up going back to 0/3. Training success was between 27-30% but I failed to train her daily for about 5-6 days straight, sometimes training her twice per day. I think I missed her training one day when her handler was incapacitated from being attacked by a hungry warg. I feel like I lost those two obedience points way too quickly on an animal that's already a bit harder to tame and train, although I don't quite fully understand the new training mechanics.
I'm liking 1.0 so far, but there are a few things relating to rivers I am concerned with
1. Getting wet in freezing cold temperatures aren't taken into account for
2. Pawns won't swim for recreation
3. Sometimes thick roofed mountains/hills spawn over rivers and will immediately collapse upon map generation (see attachment)
While #3 isn't a huge issue, it does look funny, especially since if you break any of the collapsed rocks, there will just be water under them. (Note: this was generated on a "flat" map)
[attachment deleted due to age]
I'm fairly early on in my first playthrough of 1.0. I picked a random starting location, which has a creek running diagonally pretty much straight through the middle of the entire map. I have noticed many times that a colonist will decide to go for a walk... straight into the creek, for a -10 "soaking wet" debuff!
If a colonist is going on a walk for fun, why would they walk into the creek? Could the pathing be adjusted so they don't do this?
On a related note, colonists seem to take a LOT more joy breaks now than they did before. I have four colonists, and only one or two are generally working at a time. Maybe this changes as you get further into the game? But right now the overall colonist mood seems pretty low, even though I didn't take any colonists with traits affecting mood.
Yeah maybe I'm missing something but there doesn't seem to be any counterplay to a lot of joy tolerance building --> less joy from doing activities --> constantly lower moods than previously. As a result mood was heavily nerfed in 1.0, not sure if that's intentional or not though.
Fortunately, it looks like I just hit a run of bad luck regarding skeeviness. Recently, the most offensive thing my colonist has done is offer Bat free, fresh pumpkins despite the fact that:
1. It's currently the dead of winter on the tundra.
2.Pumpkins aren't in the game!
He's also talked to her about training Hippopotomuss, which I don't think are in the game yet. Shame on you, Dargaron!
Since Tynan asked us to report on the raid difficulty as the game progresses: I'm doing a Rich Explorer run, with all of the "free colonist" events turned off. Difficult is Rough, storyteller is Cassandra Clasisic.
The first year, the largest raid was two penitents, wich was a good thing, since my dude was stuck in an 8-by-6 Marble room w/ a heater, and my wealth gain was basically nil for that year. Once I had a wall up and running and started accumulating stuff, the raids started to pick up. By winter of 5502, still with one colonist (plus the unfortunate Bat, who still won't join me in my conquest of the galaxy), I'm getting raids of 6 or so people with crappy gear (although getting hit by a bunch of Machine Pistol bullets still hurts).
It's nice that raiders and visitors will bandage themselves now: I'm noticing a drop in the number of caravan members that I have to patch up after they get mauled by a vicious, vicious Arctic Fox.
Haven't done much with animal handling: I had a Husky show up earlier in 5502, and he's been nice and cuddly, but I haven't managed to train him yet. It's something of a race to see which comes first: Xerox trained to haul, or Bat getting recruited by Mr. Creepy Breathing.
Probably the biggest hurdle with this setup is the change to tree sowing: Normally by this point I'd have a bunch of Oak Trees ready to harvest, but that's not in the cards. I've had Alphabeavers thrice so far, and it's not like there are many trees on the Tundra to start with. So, it's been stone beds and steel workbenches for everyone!
Recreation (joy) definitely plays a bigger role in 1.0 than in B18. I remember being able to set 2-3 hours, usually before bed for specific "joy" time for each colonist and they were fine. Now they seem to require at least 4-5 hours of recreation. I set recreation time a couple of hours before bed and after they wake up. Imo, I don't mind the changes. It makes sense that the colonists require to take several breaks throughout or an extended period if they're constantly working 10+ hours per day. :)
I like that Prostophile, now transhumanist, can now be satisfied with non-bionic parts, but I think something like a peg leg isn't exactly what a transhumanist would consider an upgrade to their body. It'd make more sense for different parts to have different degrees of affect on the mood effect. A wooden foot/peg leg could reduce/neutralize the negative effects but would require prosthetic or better to gain a positive buff. Could also be something like a wooden limb counts as 1 body part, prosthetic counts as 2, and bionic as 3 or 4. Values and descriptions would need to be adjusted of course.
Just did a trade caravan mission with 1 person and got ambushed. It was 1 person with weapon wealth equal to what I am seeing in raids. Caravans are definitely on the right track to being a much more worth it part of the game to explore. I do think prison breaks should offer more information though. They are assumed to always have way to high of a risk with out having any idea of the reward. If it was a research tech to send out a spy on a caravan mission to give us any type of information then it might be worth it.
Edit: He is still on his way home got hit with a manhunter pack of 1 elk. Interesting events. Seems like trade missions are probably best with two people one of them being a doctor.
To the previous comments about sappers. I got my first sapper raid it was about 20-25 people. I had 7 colonist all in plated armor and basic weapons. They spawned on both sides of the map. But my multi layer defense basically just turned it into a shotgun brawl between doors of my base after I picked off like 8 of them from outside. They didn't retreat requiring me to kill all of them which was really fun. Basically everyone got injured but only 1 person downed by end of the fight since it kept becoming 3 vs 1s in bedrooms kinda fights.
How do you exactly get the unstable version if you bought through the website and not through steam?????
Register the game with Steam.
Small QoL feature suggestion, a button to remove all priorities in the work tab.
It would be useful when you're setting up all of your priorities in a new game by giving you a blank slate to work from, rather then a mess of auto-set priorities.
Could also include the ability for specific pawns priorities to be cleared (A button at the start/end of their line in the table?) which would help with pawns added mid-game or if you want to re-do one pawns priorities but not any others.
Thanks Tynan and the rest of the dev's for the awesome releases so far!
The enemy weapon display bar is nice but misses the total count, in this particular scenario, there were 3 to 4 guys with a revolver so a counter like: Revolver x4 would definitely polish the new feature.
(https://i.imgur.com/hl6qTTh.png)
Next:
A long standing problem, we need an AI patch that prioritizes "Rest" over feeding when a pawn is wounded so that this doesn't happen anymore:
(https://i.imgur.com/4iFtyRv.png)
Currently it can be solved by just moving the pawn away and only then undrafting, but its an unnatural move under an attack behavior. Also since Doctors can also feed patients, eating can be left for later. We all had experienced so far that heavy wounded characters would go bleeding all over the colony and dinning room in order to eat first and then care about their lives... A new patch will certainly increase the workload of Doctors but it would be more reasonable and logic to me.
Pathing still continues to be a problem. How hard would it be to include a heat map that tells the AI Pathing where the bullets are coming from? So that pawns would avoid that "map sector", so as to not "think" it's walk in the park time? I mean...we do have the "Battle music on"...so why not some altered behavior during these times?
(https://i.imgur.com/Nr6rq6v.png)
The new armor system seems to punish using hard hitting/slow fire rate weapons, where weapons that fire a ton of projectiles can at least get a hit in per burst instead of having the one shot fired (from something like a sniper) be deflected.
Its quite refreshing, to have armor actually protect you from sniper rifle oneshots for a change. I quite like it. Also makes you choose your target for a sniper pawn more carefully, since there s a decent chance of a block and cooldown on it is long.
Quote from: Diana Winters on June 22, 2018, 11:10:25 PM
The new armor system seems to punish using hard hitting/slow fire rate weapons, where weapons that fire a ton of projectiles can at least get a hit in per burst instead of having the one shot fired (from something like a sniper) be deflected.
Very much this, it's the old Warhammer issue. I really think damage reduction was the way to go, there can still be random deflects, just more rare or maybe make penetration a different stat entirely to add another layer of weapon variety. High pen weapons could also be more likely to damage organs?
A couple of findings in my last play through - first 2 years Randy Rough:
- pyromaniac too powerful - before 1.0 another colonist could easily keep up fighting fire when a pyro goes on a spree. In 1.0 the pyro becomes a firestorm, within 1 game hour, (s)he would light a 20 x 20 square easily.
- colonist will path through swamps while drier routes are available and then complain about being wet/soaked etc
- roof and roof collapse over a large river without mountains in the area.
the following could just be Randy Random (my last game was alpha 16 releases)
- in murderous rage, colonist seem to have 100% kill chance
- meteorite made of Uranium 8) - maybe this was just Randi.
- multiple cargo pods / meteorites in a game day
- multiple raids at the same time from different directions - i do like the challenge
Quote from: PhantomFav on June 22, 2018, 04:15:47 PM
Honestly, I have found the "Forageability" and the "Forageability Rate" pretty pointless. When food is over, berries (100%) sustain the caravan for only few hours, meanwhile agave fruit (25%) is so slow to increase, that doesn't affect the durability of a caravan in any way. I think this part need a rebalance. In any case, you can't administer this scarse resources, for the the most needy pawns.
I've found it to be useful, personally. I sent a guy out, literally did not have enough food to get there, and all of the stops along the way were hostile. I should have planned it better, but I was honestly curious how foraging would work out. It actually worked out very well, for me. He ran out of food half-way through; The kibble I sent was literally the only long-term food I had, and it ended up giving him food poisoning. Between the food poisoning and him toking through the smokeleaf joints I sent as a trade good he was mostly immobile for a day or so, but with a few judicious pauses to utilize the double-forage, his malnutrition never went above the lowest grade, and often dipped down into fine; He made a 4-day trip while starting out with only 2 days of food. His foraging rate was only middlin', but I was fortunate that most of the trip was through 100% foraging territory.
I wouldn't mind if it were kicked up a bit, but overall, I found it to be very useful, and an additionally worthwhile reason to allow all of my pawns to sow and harvest, despite the loss of food in the short term due to a failed harvest, just as a way to build growing skill.
Is tending/infections still being worked on?
Tending quality is all over the place or so it seems. I can get like 40% and 0% tend quality without using meds. Sometimes I get very low quality tending with herbs around 5% even though there's no health problems with my doctor.
Had a pawn get a dogbite, no other health problems. Treated her very shortly afterwards with herbals and clean room. Stayed in bed the whole time and tend her with herbs instantly when needed. Yet she died from infection. Infection beat immunity around 12%. Something funky going on there.
Also my doctor with passion doesn't get a mood bonus while tending.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 01:46:36 PM
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 22, 2018, 01:18:51 PM
Quote from: Mihsan on June 22, 2018, 09:03:59 AM
But what really bothers me is how fast those sappers can mine my walls and how many holes they are ready to make. On one side it was first time when I felt like there is something smart fighting against me in this game and I love that those unfair trap labyrinths will be nerfed (which I dont use anyway). On the other side it feels like sappers have too big of advantage because I wasted countless days to build that giant marble wall around my base and it took them literaly 2 seconds to make a hole in it. And wooden walls they pass almost without stoping. Maybe at least speed of wall mining should be tuned down?
What was the mining level of those sappers? If around 15, I think it's optimal that they break the wall fast.
I don't like the internal inconsistency. IMO "mining" should not beat out explosives to break a fortification, and it's awkward that AI raiders can do things like "mine walls" and "ignite" while player pawns have no such option.
Even making AI raiders fire into the walls would be a bit more genuine of a representation, if they can manage not to hit each other.
Igniting is an old thing and no one has complained about it, otherwise successful raid attacks would end up with only some buildings being destroyed, which looks lame. There must be a fire. Although you might be right there - raiders shouldn't ignite without Molotov or incendiary launchers.
Mining walls is a new thing. In previous versions, stone walls required more time to be destroyed than natural stone which was mined, unless they used grenades. Now, sappers mine walls instead of carrying frag grenades. It seems that devs thought grenades was too common from loot when they were supposed to be an exotic item which shouldn't be obtained that easily. Also, imagine the destruction they caused with those grenades. Now, it's been nerfed for the cost of walls, which are being "mined".
I've tested a sapper raid. The sapper had mining lvl4 and he mined wood wall within a couple of seconds with 2 hits. A single granite wall took approximately half a minute. But that's the role of a sapper - to get into the colony. Walls have been nerfed, now you gotta fight (but I agree 11vs27 is hilarious for a poor colony). Sapper which got into Mihsan's colony seems to be much more experienced in mining. Getting a sapper with high mining skill is the same bad luck as being engaged into a melee fight by a raider with high melee skill or fighting a skilled shooter who carries an assault rifle.
Quote from: Jibbles on June 23, 2018, 02:31:10 AM
Is tending/infections still being worked on?
Tending quality is all over the place or so it seems. I can get like 40% and 0% tend quality without using meds. Sometimes I get very low quality tending with herbs around 5% even though there's no health problems with my doctor.
Had a pawn get a dogbite, no other health problems. Treated her very shortly afterwards with herbals and clean room. Stayed in bed the whole time and tend her with herbs instantly when needed. Yet she died from infection. Infection beat immunity around 12%. Something funky going on there.
Also my doctor with passion doesn't get a mood bonus while tending.
Hmm, you're right. That doesn't sound right. I have a colonist with 4 in medical with one flame. He consistently tends around 16%-25% but I never saw him tend below that. Anyway, I try to use my better doctor for tending unless she's injured. My bf on the other hand has a colonist with 8 in medical and was able to save his polar bear from plague using two herbal meds. The plague started at around 41% and immunity around 29% if I remember correctly. He just tended the polar bear with hands and got a 53% quality.
On a side note, what lvl medical does your doctor have? Are you certain that doctor was the only one with Doctor enabled under Work tab at the time that you were treating the pawn with the dog bite? A couple of times I've forgotten to disable doctoring for pawns with low lvl medical (was trying to lvl up their medical on prisoners) and they rushed to treat their injured friends.
Found another quirk
Captured Enemies - If I capture an enemy at an outpost or another encounter, bringing them back to base doesn't let me "capture" them or place them in a jail cell. I think it's because they are loaded with equipment and the colonists are unloading them before placing them in the cell. This means they wander around for a while and eventually try to escape.
I believe they should be either escorted to their cell then unloaded or they are escorted and all the items are immediately dropped on the ground. I'm OK with either scenario. Status quo is frustrating.
P.S. I hope my last message didn't get buried without it being read. I'm surprised no one commented on the caravan arrival notification request.
Quote from: Serina on June 23, 2018, 04:09:08 AM
On a side note, what lvl medical does your doctor have? Are you certain that doctor was the only one with Doctor enabled under Work tab at the time that you were treating the pawn with the dog bite? A couple of times I've forgotten to disable doctoring for pawns with low lvl medical (was trying to lvl up their medical on prisoners) and they rushed to treat their injured friends.
My doctor is lvl 3. I'm certain it's her who's been tending. I'd say treating with herbs usually goes around 14% - 35% with her. It does go below that at times even tho all the conditions are right. This is the same doctor who will treat wounds around 40-50% sometimes without any meds. Haven't had anyone die on me yet with diseases, they've been pulling through so far. I felt the infection rate was too high when I got the notification so I kept an eye on that. Sure enough there wasn't a chance to save that pawn.
Quote from: Ardshael on June 23, 2018, 04:14:16 AM
Caravans - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE provide a proper letter notification for a caravan arriving at a location. I can't tell you how many times a caravan arrives and I didn't see the small notification because something else was happening. If you do nothing else, this addition would make me happy.
lol yeah, I remember missing/forgetting those at times.
https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Infection
Not sure if you've seen this yet, but the section under Prevention and Treatment (scroll to the bottom) is pretty interesting! Might help explain why your pawn succumbed to the infection.
Please, make downed pawns able to be carried via transport pods.
Quote from: Ardshael on June 23, 2018, 04:14:16 AM
P.S. I hope my last message didn't get buried without it being read. I'm surprised no one commented on the caravan arrival notification request.
The issue is not to be burried under too many notifications. What was really dangerous in previous built is you had no notification if members of caravans had a bad mood, were starving or needed treatment. My take is it's up to the player to pay attention to the caravan arrival besides the top left notification. And if things go wrong you've the permanent warning on the right.
Maybe a specific color to frame caravan pawns when they're moving/ resting or waiting could help, or an icon like inspirations to notify they're standing by.
I haven't played the build yet so don't take this as feedback as such, but I'm worried about the new armor system contributing to unlucky one-shots and making armor more inconsistent and less reliable. Currently having a power armor will save a pawn from most shots to really weak and highly fatal spots. However, if after the patch weapons just do their full damage if they penetrate armor, you'll have sniper rifles tearing off limbs from people with legendary power armor with potentially just a single shot. It just seems to throw combat more towards RNG.
I personally think a good system would be a damage threshold stat with a weapon penetration stat that gets compared to the armor's threshold value to determine how much, if any, damage goes through. I think it would be really cool if pistols and such wouldn't be able to penetrate power armor and bulletproof vests, while charge lances, sniper rifles and such would more easily penetrate such armor but still cause reduced damage to ease up on RNG disasters a bit. Any non-penetrating shot should still damage armor, though. I wouldn't want infinitely invulnerable pawns against any type of attack.
While the current system is less RNG, it's not great either, as we can have scenarios where a squirrel or a cat can scratch a pawn in power armor to death relatively quickly. A threshold system would fix this issue as well.
Imagine a raider in power armor just getting plinked futilely by your gun turrets. That would be a really interesting challenge!
video: https://clips.twitch.tv/UninterestedTrappedSrirachaTwitchRaid
I went through an unreasonable situation when I was doing a 'Incapacitated refugee' quest today.
I thought that the colonist's wife fell down and contacted me and We have enough weapon and armor.
When I almost arrived at the fallen refugees, I was attacked by the mechanoid and thought I should return quickly.
When I entered the fallen refugees, I saw a fallen man and I immediately reconstructed the caravan.
Soon, 90 friendship alliance fell to -75, and friendship fell.
That's right. The object that he saved was an alliance.
And the caravan could not move because the target was hurt.
I had to return quickly under limited food, so I had to forsake her.
colonist were penalized for losing their wives.
The situation that I was going to rescue was worse than the situation I did not go to save.
This event is unreasonable.
When she comes to rescue her, she can not move, so she has to protect her for a period of time that she can move and she has to take care of the risk of getting her.
I went to rescue, but it is also absurd if I am an ally. Why does not she ask her team for help? What kind of benefit do I have to do for this event?
At least the target of the event should not be allied.
--
Add.
I would like a minimum safety device to go from an alliance (+90) to -75. So the warning window must be opened.
Quote from: Ardshael on June 23, 2018, 04:14:16 AM
P.S. I hope my last message didn't get buried without it being read. I'm surprised no one commented on the caravan arrival notification request.
Don't worry, every message gets read. Since you're not the first to bring up the caravan arrival message thing, we're making that change.
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!
this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?
Request for Quests being able to be pinned! Perhaps a minimise option like Windows has? I know it's in the History tab, but it's not a very elegant solution.
Thoughts on plate armor: Plate armor is good! I would even go as far to say it's prefarable than armored vests and simple/advance helmets. This is probably more of a mentality thing instead of a numbers thing, but giving everyone plate armor makes feel more "safe" than giving shooters armored vests/helmets. Perhaps a debuff to movement, about -10% or so? Not too much, real plate armor is form fitting. If that medieval helmet is to be added, also give a debuff to sight.
On the Healer serum: Before you can right-click and use it with a click, now it has to be done via operations. This isn't a bad thing, but it does screw over if for whatever reason, your only pawn can't doctor and because of it, can't apply directly. I would also, if able, to administer the serum on a specific part. My one grower had a missing eye and a scar. Guess which one it healed first. If said pawn had prosthesis, give an option saying (remove prosthesis first)?
Quote from: Venatos on June 23, 2018, 08:04:36 AM
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!
this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?
We haven't actually been able to find a case that reproduces this. By design doctors will tend instead of eating *if the person would die soon*. They won't forego their own basic needs just because someone is sick with a non-fatal illness. If you've got a broken case in a savegame I hope you'll post it in the Bugs forum.
I do not understand how this is the way to get legendary items.
Can someone explain this?
If a colonist gets any inspiration, is he created with a certain probability when he tries to produce?
New build! Raw log:
--
Text adjustments on prosthetic appreciation/disgust (since prosthophile/phobe was renamed).
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected apparel. Also resized some oversized art and made minor art fixes.
Wild men now show up in the Wildlife tab.
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected bodies.
Fix: All character art in the game is slightly offset to the left by one pixel on the north and south view. Corrected head and hair art. Also made some minor art corrections (some fuzzy/bright pixels around hair edges).
Add ProstheticAppreciation/Disgust thoughts for Transhumanist/BodyPurist.
Reduce PSD size: Tribal headdress. Centered it (I intend to center the rest of the character art so we don't need a weird offset forever).
Fix: Stuff offsets not applied if stat value is zero or below because of accidental interaction with applyFactorsIfNegative. Also, moved stuff stat offset application after stat factors, since there's no sense in multiplying a stat's offset but its own factor. Adjusted gold, and silver beauty stat offsets. Result: Walls made of super expensive materials now have beauty.
Resized ship AI core building (3,3)->(2x2) to make symmetrical ships possible. Resized art to standard size per cell as well and cleaned it up a bit.
Reduce centipede health, armor, and melee attack power. Increase scyther armor.
PointsPer1000Wealth 7.8 -> 7.5
Fix: Shooting small-size targets makes people spray bullets more widely.
Fix: Shot spread suddenly becomes a lot wider if the target lays down (this problem still exists for target size).
Allow multiselect of wild healroot.
Tuned shooting spread curves. Moved shooting spread curves into ShootTunings.
Allow running conduit through smoothed walls.
Set a minimum aimon chance at 2%.
Refactor some shot accuracy code; moved accuracy variables into ShootTunings.
Remove meleeshoot functionality.
Add debug output to tune wild miss results.
Implement new wild-miss behavior.
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
(https://i.imgur.com/acXx93u.png)outside temp 49 Degrees F and snowing?
I also noticed that the new crafting benches are not increasing crafting skill
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What's the bug? That's not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I'm not sure if it's the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it's a quirk? No clue.
Edit: I've been playing in 64bit, I haven't checked to see if I'd have the same problem I'm 32bit though. I'll check when I get home from work
Great improvements so far, I registered just to help with some feedback on playing the unstable build - I've been playing for a long time but never posted...
Here's my feedback after putting in quite some time with the new build. For reference, I started alone and naked in a temperate forest with a river and a road on a coastal tile. I am now almost starting to build my spaceship with 10 colonists. I
- Rivers feel great now, they are interesting, as problems and as support. Make the map much more interesting.
- Related to that, bridges are really cool and fun to play around with - for chokepoints, and balancing them with walking needs to access the other part of the map.
- The coastline looks cool! In effect it makes my map a bit smaller but I like it. In the long run a harbor for building boats to sail around in would be interesting (I am on an inland sea with big islands and camps on them that I cannot reach I think).
- I really struggled because I couldn't build a campfire to cook at first, that was rough. I saw that the crafting requirement was removed, that is really better that way.
- I saw infections were scaled down a little but not too much. Good - they should stay menacing! They're annoying and at the wrong moment can be very scary. I actually got a gift of some ultratech medicine from my first caravan, and most of that was used over time fighting infections until I had trade and medicine up, as well as a backup medicine expert.
- Nitpicking: why is it "ultratech" medicine but "archotech" arms etc? There's a reason I suppose but it's confusing a bit.
- My colonist got her foot shot off, and there wasn't even a wound on the leg. Was that because it was a laser weapon? Still felt weird that she needed less attention than someone scratched up by a squirrel, and she was up and running instantly as well. Furthermore: There's no mood debuff for losing a limb in combat! I was almost excited when I checked her tab to see what that would be called and how bad it would be when it happened - but there was nothing. Feels like getting your foot shot off should have a debuff, they whine about everything else...
- Fires seem less crazy now, which is good. Still, dry thunderstorms happen quite often and they are just annoying. All I end up doing is manually fighting fires with my guys in draft mode until it's over, which is click-intensive but not fun. There's not really a challenge there any more either, especially with fires scaled down a little. I would reduce their occurence and/or replace them with flashstorms - they're over quickly at least.
- Difficulty: Distress call quests (helping out someone) are very tough to completely impossible to do at first. I twice had someone sad for 20 days for losing a loved one because I didn't rescue them. I did go to the place, but the bandits I faced were absolutely overwhelming. First one was my first survivor finding her father surrounded by 8 guys with guns, while she was in her first shirt and pants with a short bow. It does add to the story in a way, but it felt unusually hopeless.
- Difficulty: I got Poison Ship earlier than I would have expected - without knowing exactly what to expect and how to fight centipedes they are a death sentence.
- Difficulty: Some of the quest rewards helped me jump ahead just way too much. One of my very first quest rewards was a legendary chain shotgun that is still one of my best weapons all this time later. Going from short bow to chain shotgun, and then seeing an excellent sniper rifle in the first town I visited, took a lot of interest away from crafting. Maybe a few easier quests with less rewards could be introduced, some sort of scaling progression on them?
- I do like the world and how it feels. The mix of hostile and neutral places and the new goodwill system are great, they feel really interesting and organic. A minor nitpick: the peace talks feel too powerful. I got something like 70 goodwill out of them (with a 14 or 15 social skill, so I know I got lucky there). Working towards peace would be cooler if it were a process. In this case it was waiting for the event and then boom - over. Or maybe the event could be a reward for something?
- The world is great but it feels a little empty still. More towns or locations would make the realistically reachable parts of the surroundings more interesting. Maybe they have less to offer per store then... It's a problem though - you want the world to feel large, also for the trek to the ship, but then it would be swamped with locations. More quests maybe. They are really nice and make the neighborhood interesting, and give a reason to travel.
- since I'm at it: new caravan system is great!
-*Edited in: food poisoning has a problem: I know it's coming but the colonist is not considered sick. I can't just send them to a hospital bed or to their own bed even. Would be great if I could do that once they have the initial effect. What I do now is I draft them and have them waiting next to their own bed - in parts because they also drop their weapons and if I don't manually track a poisoned colonist their weapon ends up in the river and loses 10% before I can get someone to pick it up... Frustrating.
I didn't tame any animals but I don't mind the change in taming at all. All in all a great experience, even after way too many hours playing it's still a ton of fun and generates some crazy stories.
How do you register this game with this steam if you already have the owned from the website.
Quote from: desedse on June 23, 2018, 09:17:55 AM
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What's the bug? That's not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I'm not sure if it's the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it's a quirk? No clue.
Edit: I've been playing in 64bit, I haven't checked to see if I'd have the same problem I'm 32bit though. I'll check when I get home from work
That's the one, yes. It happens with small colonies too.
I tried the Naked Brutality start several times and infections are often a death sentence. There is very little that can be done to avoid death from infection. The barrier to managable infections is high: either skill 8 in growing and a lot of time, or lots of silver and a lucky trade.
The way I'm adjusting to this is to start only with a super-immune colonist. Decent combat skills are also required or they will die to the first pirate raid. Which then leads to a lot of rerolling colonists until a suitable candidate is found.
Quote from: Jaredmatt200 on June 23, 2018, 09:48:03 AM
How do you register this game with this steam if you already have the owned from the website.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=21435.0
Quote from: Tynan on June 23, 2018, 08:14:24 AM
Quote from: Venatos on June 23, 2018, 08:04:36 AM
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!
this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?
We haven't actually been able to find a case that reproduces this. By design doctors will tend instead of eating *if the person would die soon*. They won't forego their own basic needs just because someone is sick with a non-fatal illness. If you've got a broken case in a savegame I hope you'll post it in the Bugs forum.
the problem seems to be that the special case of *if the person would die soon* somehow put the other medical issues below basic needs, which makes for insane behavior:
"man im bleeding all over the place" somehow leads to: "i still have a few hours before im in any real danger, lets play some hooprings and eat dinner" which usualy ends in: "what do you mean my arm is infected and you have to take it off?"
doctors seem to have a similar problem with priorities aka "going to sleep while patients need tending"
i understand that doctors take care of themselfs before feeding patients etc. but pretty much anything that isnt a bruise has preority over selfcare.
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: desedse on June 23, 2018, 09:17:55 AM
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 23, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
For the past 5 versions, there's been a bug with the right click menu. Any chance that'll be fixed any time soon?
What's the bug? That's not that specific is it? I do have an issue with the right click though but I'm not sure if it's the same as yours. When you right click frames drop instantly (like 2-6fps from 60). Tends to happen with bigger colonies. Must be trying to calculate the sum of the universe whenever I right click. Maybe it's a quirk? No clue.
Edit: I've been playing in 64bit, I haven't checked to see if I'd have the same problem I'm 32bit though. I'll check when I get home from work
That's the one, yes. It happens with small colonies too.
The frames dropping on right click starts from the beginning, however the larger your colony grows the worse it becomes. It actually gets to a point where you can't control the colony once you get down to 1-2 FPS. As soon as you release the right mouse button, it's back to normal.
its saturday and you still updated it omg
I think 'Slept in Cold' debuff is applied incorrectly.
Pawn having 'Min comf. temperature' of -25.8*C, sleeping in a room of 13*C gets debuff despite that he's still within comfy temp. zone.
and for clarification, it's not 'old' debuff from previous sleep of pawn.
[attachment deleted due to age]
My colonist fought a rat bare handed, and several times during the fight had abnormally slow recovery time after performing an attack (looking at the log, this could be "kicking sand in the target's eyes"). It seemed to be about 2-3x slower than normal.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 21, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
- don't remember if already mentioned earlier, but watermills are pretty OP, being an obvious choice early on an unparalleled power source despite its wood requirements, maybe make water flow variable like wind turbines
We could add a power factor to the water as a multiplier between 1 and 0. It goes up during rain and drops without rain. We can then make it depend on all the river areas upsteam and rain there as well. RimWorld doesn't use all the CPU cores, meaning it would be possible to make rainfall simulations on a different core, hence adding the feature without slowing down the game. We can even go extreme and make those points flow, meaning there will be benefits from placing wheels at narrow locations, even throwing rocks into the water to make even more water flow through the wheel. The wheel then eats up flowpoints, meaning you will not get twice as much power from having two wheels in a row.
The question is if it's worth the coding time.
One interesting fact to add is that the industrial revolution didn't start with water wheels. Water power have existed for ages (even the Romans used it), but it has reliability issues as it depends heavily on rain. In the 18th century, all the water wheels stopped in England due to lack of rain. A factory owner named Charles Bolton happened to come in contact with an unknown and penniless man called James Watt. Watt converted the factory to steam power, Bolton made a fortune by not relying on weather and they started Bolton & Watt, a steam engine production company. Watt later invented a method of making steam engines constant rpm engines, changing steam usage automatically to match the workload, something waterwheels can't do. This allowed the cotton industry to produce way more with significantly less workers. Those workers then went out to look for new jobs and became the workforce to really start the industrial revolution. Waterwheels became niche, but never died out because they work without fuel. Some factories used until electrification and even today waterwheels are in use. Go to youtube and you can see people making their own. I saw one, which pumps water from a river to some nearby cows while a fence prevents the cows from falling into the river. Yes, it's primitive and looks somewhat crude, yet it works, is cheap/free and is used in commercial production, meaning waterwheels aren't dead.
Quote from: Elendil on June 22, 2018, 07:21:08 AMSomething that seemed a little odd was that a river affected me the same in boreal forest when it was -17°C as in arid shrubland when it was 34°C. What I think would be really interesting and made the gameplay more engaging would be if the soaking wet debuff gave a debuff to cold resistance (perhaps even negate cold resistance of clothes).
An interesting fact to add here is that Japan has summers around 40°C and plenty of rain/water. Traditionally they took a bucket of water and a big spoon like thing, walked down the street and threw water around them. This made the stones wet and the process of making the water vaporize takes up energy, meaning it actually cools down the stones, making the temperature on the streets more comfortable. Now with indoor climate control, it's not as widespread anymore, but it haven't died out completely.
Water spraying cooling could be used in RimWorld, not as a freezer, but more like lowering indoor temperature from 40°C to 30°C. Add a new job, which goes to the river, goes inside, work quickly on a tile to lower heat energy on it and repeat. It does take up colonists to do so, but it could be a way to prevent heatstrokes during early/mid game during heatwaves.
Reading this thread gives me plenty of ideas, which would be cool to have ingame. However this thread is about core, which is aimed at new players. It should be well balanced, easy to understand and not bloated with ideas and concepts. We can all add mods if we want. Because of this I see two main tasks right now:
- Figuring out game balance.
- Locate all issues, which can prevent mod creations.
Lot's of people talk about #1, but somehow I have the feeling I'm the only one using ILSpy and Harmony to examine the code for modability at the moment. If it turns out that 1.0 is indeed the final version, now is the time to detect and correct issues for mods where we get the idea for the mod in 2020. I consider this issue to be way more important than details, which can be modded anyway.
Quote from: Tynan on June 23, 2018, 07:30:29 AMDon't worry, every message gets read.
I had the feeling of being ignored as well. Nobody replied and page after page were added until suddenly a reply stated the issue was fixed. I'm now once again able to mod the mod loading code :D
Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.
Quote from: gadjung on June 23, 2018, 10:43:35 AM
I think 'Slept in Cold' debuff is applied incorrectly.
Pawn having 'Min comf. temperature' of -25.8*C, sleeping in a room of 13*C gets debuff despite that he's still within comfy temp. zone.
and for clarification, it's not 'old' debuff from previous sleep of pawn.
I think the debuff intentionally ignores clothing to incentivize climate control. The range is 15C to 25C.
Quote from: Polder on June 23, 2018, 10:02:41 AM
I tried the Naked Brutality start several times and infections are often a death sentence. There is very little that can be done to avoid death from infection. The barrier to managable infections is high: either skill 8 in growing and a lot of time, or lots of silver and a lucky trade.
The way I'm adjusting to this is to start only with a super-immune colonist. Decent combat skills are also required or they will die to the first pirate raid. Which then leads to a lot of rerolling colonists until a suitable candidate is found.
Super-immune trait is one of my favorites! Name is very fitting for the Naked Brutality scenario. Even the tiniest mistake or oversight could cost you the game but I find it very fun. Normally I sit at the colonist selection screen and spam click randomize for at least an hour or two whenever I have to start a new save since I'm pretty picky about traits and passions. The new trait, Tough, is pretty handy as well. My colonist with Tough was able to fend off a very hungry warg with a steel club without taking too much damage, just a couple of scratches and a bite if I remember correctly. When I first saw the attack notice, I thought he was a goner for sure but I've since considered renaming him Badass.
I don't know if I've been extremely lucky in this most recent run of mine but 63 days have passed and I haven't suffered an infection, yet. My best doctor at the time only had 3 in medical but I used steel beds and the rough granite flooring underneath me since I dug into a hill.
Seeing as another update is up
- Still hope that raiders being capable of self-tending will be brought back. It felt very right. It felt like they had brains... Until next update lobotomized them again.
- Still hope food poisoning stops knocking people out. They don't eat pesticides to get incapacitated, even if bad food gives you stomach pains, diarrhea, gut worms and some other nasty stuff, it doesn't make you KO, while raiders burn your house. You shit yourself, grit your teeth and fight. I liked it when it was frequent but less severe.
- Also I'll still be nagging about item quality - masterwork and legendary shouldn't be quests only. Sure it does add more incentive to go and try some quests. But if in earlier version you could incredibly slowly but reliably make masterwork or legendary beds for your guys for example. In this version max you can hope for is excellent even lategame with a god-like builder. And with quests you never really can get what you really want, only what random gives after you fight 10 people armed to the teeth with your 3 hobos.
Overall - great update. Centipede armor nerf and scyther buff was badly required good stuff. Melee-shot thingy was removed - another great decision, since it all but disabled any use melee in the game had. I really like how melee was a high risk, high reward thing, with you disabling and putting at a disadvantage otherwise technologically superior enemies.
As for quality and self-tends - i guess its fine. I really hope those get fixed, but if not, theres always our generous modding community. Thanks for your hard work, Tynan. Your work is amazing as always.
Here I come again this time with images.
Regarding recreation, I don't why people are complaining so much either, keeping in mind there are now different types of recreation, involving dexterity or intellectual, and perhaps social/drugs I don't know. But all you really is a couple of things, between the horseshoe and recreation tables, add some beer and smokeleaf (depending on availability), plus some social recreation time together, and they're pretty much satisfied. I assigned just two recreation hours just before sleep and they usually even go to work after that time is done.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/hdhch4zt7/Screenshot_20180623_003707.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hdhch4zt7/)
Parking spot for trading caravans, to pretty avoid second picture, needless to say, its quite weird the places they choose to hang around.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/rasda7ukb/Screenshot_20180623_004515.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/rasda7ukb/)
Bug spawning, I don't remember seeing it on your patch notes changing it, but I had two weird cases, first had bugs spreading almost cancerous like, second case was much more manageable, I dunno if it was changed or just different severity. First picture was after like a week, second picture was just a couple of days after spawn, pretty much first duplicate.
(https://s33.postimg.cc/6qnjbpzdn/Screenshot_20180620_202601.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6qnjbpzdn/) (https://s33.postimg.cc/85p40g86j/Screenshot_20180623_012418.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/85p40g86j/)
Caravans, are indeed pretty cool, I don't recall reading about it anywhere, but people will tend themselves in caravan (hopefully the more skilled doctor), and I don't know if needs for the caravan to be paused, but it often helps to have them rest a while and recuperating before going off again. This also makes capturing prisoners on the road more viable.
Forageability is also pretty neat, it serves as a nice way to complement a caravan nutrition, and not at all meant to replace it, so while on the road your Pemmican may last much more than what you thought.
Getting food poisoning while on caravan can be pretty damaging though, heavily slowing movement cost and possibly even losing the whole caravan. I hold my previous suggestion to have different severity cases of poisoning and not just always incapacitating one, also hint whether some food may have low quality or not.
The events that happen are also ok, they always seem scale correctly the size of the challenge, which I actually would like to see more randomness, for example right now you can always expect just minor threat to happen on quests, maybe mix it up more.
As an additional point, doing trade requests are really worth it, but it also feels that the rewards are somewhat too strong, maybe having different grades of quests also help variability, and not always just high rewards.
- As already noted, pawns often will not haul when completing wild harvest work orders.
- There is an odd situation where an fertilized egg can become "ruined", I think in these cases the fertilized egg should be treated as unfertilized, eg hauled and cooked.
- Again on hauling stuff, when a recipe requires more than one type ingredient, it can result in pawns taking rather lengthy trips to fetch each ingredient, like cooking, one little piece meat, another meat, another vegetable. This applies to all workbenches it seems, possibly making it pretty inefficient.
- Some work bills don't apply to the appropriate skill, so for example medicine making, which uses intelligence but its on crafting work order, it can lead weird cases where your researcher is doing stone cutting work, while you crafter is doing medicine work.
- Likewise, I support that idea that some work can fit under general skill-less work, like feeding patients and prisoners, maybe more but it fails my memory.
- I like that masterworks are rare, you're really not supposed to be getting those items left and right with average skilled people, its called masterwork/legendary for a reason.
edit: sorry for posting the full images, I don't get how to attach images otherwise
Quote from: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 01:05:36 PM
- Still hope food poisoning stops knocking people out. They don't eat pesticides to get incapacitated, even if bad food gives you stomach pains, diarrhea, gut worms and some other nasty stuff, it doesn't make you KO, while raiders burn your house. You shit yourself, grit your teeth and fight. I liked it when it was frequent but less severe.
I disagree that some food poisoning doesn't knock you out. I recently just got over food poisoning myself and I can tell you that I was pretty much incapacitated for a day and a half. I had fever, chills, intense stomach pain, diarrhea and fatigue. It got to the point where all I could do was sleep. Whenever I had any strength, I was in the bathroom. After about 12 hours of sleeping, I tried to get up and play one of my survival games because I was quite bored of being in bed all day but I couldn't even sit in the chair so I went back to sleep. Up until then, I wasn't aware that food poisoning could literally incapacitate someone for some time as it did with me since I never got food poisoning before. I just heard people get diarrhea and stomach pains whenever they talked about it.
Imo, maybe add different severity to food poisoning. Sometimes it could just be throwing up/diarrhea, but the pawn can still move around a bit. Maybe another time it could be more severe with the pawn needing half a day's worth of bed rest, etc. B18 food poisoning was very negligible and forgotten. However, always being incapacitated due to food poisoning in 1.0 isn't very balanced either. Anyway, I don't know if they decreased chances of food poisoning recently but I haven't had a single colonist come down with food poisoning since arrival (63 days). My cook only had lvl 4 in the skills but has two flames.
Quote from: Tynan on June 23, 2018, 08:14:24 AM
Quote from: Venatos on June 23, 2018, 08:04:36 AM
i thought this was fixed for 1.0?
joy, hunger and rest apparently still have a higher prioritys then saving someone from bleeding out and/or getting your own bleeding wound tended to.
none of those things are even remotely as important as saving a life or preventing an infection!
this is a core issue that has no business in a 1.0 release.
if you get a bleeding scratch from a squirel, do you realy go ahead and leave a trail of blood trough your neighborhood to watch a sunset or do you desinfect it and bandage it up?
We haven't actually been able to find a case that reproduces this. By design doctors will tend instead of eating *if the person would die soon*. They won't forego their own basic needs just because someone is sick with a non-fatal illness. If you've got a broken case in a savegame I hope you'll post it in the Bugs forum.
I actually have run into this just yesterday. A pawn was bleeding all over the place and decided it was a better idea to go play horseshoes with his ex.
Quote from: Serina on June 23, 2018, 01:40:32 PM
I disagree that some food poisoning doesn't knock you out.
Holy crap, what did you eat exactly? Those symptoms are more fit for it to be some kind of chemical poisoning... And no, food poisoning incapacitation really needs to go. Even with lowered chance it happens way too often. And having a person down during a raid frequently is a difference between life and death. Should you not have a cook with over 10 skill, you're in for suffering early game. That really shouldn't be so brutal. Like at all.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 23, 2018, 01:26:06 PM
I like that masterworks are rare, you're really not supposed to be getting those items left and right with average skilled people, its called masterwork/legendary for a reason.
I did say about godlike builders, didn't I? Those items should be rare, but available through crafting if you manage to train and maintain level 20 (godlike) crafter the way it was in B18. Quests shouldn't be the only way to get those. Inspiration mechanics are quite useless for it, so i don't count those. If i am correct in B18 it was 2-3% to get a legendary with a skill lvl 20 crafter. Thats rare enough. I really don't want Rimworld turning into Diablo where the chance of dropping an epic is 0.00002% or quest reward only.
Food poisoning is variable IRL, but the in-game version is very rare.
Infection is annoying but perfect play can avoid it with naked brutality. What you can't avoid with normal play is instant game over to early disease or food poisoning RNG (even cooking only in a clean room you need a high cooking skill or you lose sometimes).
Only viable opening for NB is to press ancient dangers instantly and flee the map if you can't handle what's inside --> abandon and repeat.
Quote from: fritzgryphon on June 23, 2018, 11:25:52 AM
Quote from: gadjung on June 23, 2018, 10:43:35 AM
I think 'Slept in Cold' debuff is applied incorrectly.
Pawn having 'Min comf. temperature' of -25.8*C, sleeping in a room of 13*C gets debuff despite that he's still within comfy temp. zone.
and for clarification, it's not 'old' debuff from previous sleep of pawn.
I think the debuff intentionally ignores clothing to incentivize climate control. The range is 15C to 25C.
As I looked in code :
Quote
private static void ApplyBedThoughts(Pawn actor)
(...)
if ((double) actor.AmbientTemperature < (double) actor.def.GetStatValueAbstract(StatDefOf.ComfyTemperatureMin, (ThingDef) null))
(...)
where
Quote
public class ThoughtWorker_Cold : ThoughtWorker
{
protected override ThoughtState CurrentStateInternal(Pawn p)
{
float num = p.GetStatValue(StatDefOf.ComfyTemperatureMin, true) - p.AmbientTemperature;
if ((double) num <= 0.0)
return ThoughtState.Inactive;
if ((double) num < 10.0)
return ThoughtState.ActiveAtStage(0);
if ((double) num < 20.0)
return ThoughtState.ActiveAtStage(1);
if ((double) num < 30.0)
return ThoughtState.ActiveAtStage(2);
return ThoughtState.ActiveAtStage(3);
}
}
So given this snippets, I would assume, that pawns ComfyTemperatureMin is taken into account, without ignoring clothes.
And i would say if that would not be true (apparel is ignored) then it would be bug, since sleeping in warm clothes (that keeps You warm during day) should be ok and not giving debuff.
Other solution might be by boosting pawn comfy temp when sleeping (+5 so from basic 16 it would go to 21 when sleeping/resting in bed)
My bf and I ate exactly the same food that day, excluding the crab onigiri I ordered outside. That was really the only thing I ate that he didn't and then later in the afternoon I started diarrhea. Didn't think anything of it until later that evening when I got fever, chills and couldn't get out of bed the next day. At first I thought I had the flu, but since my bf never got sick, we decided to research all my symptoms and came up with food poisoning. Diarrhea didn't even bother me that much, to be honest. Fatigue and muscle aches were the worst part of the whole experience.
I have yet to break any bones, so knock on wood. ::)
Like I said earlier, not a single food poisoning case for my colonists 63 days into naked brutality, phoebe rough. My pawn only had 4 in cooking skill and ate a bunch of berries in the beginning. Either I was extremely lucky (I need to start buying lottery tickets) or the chances of getting food poisoning has been toned down significantly. After posting this, my colonists will probably contract diseases and come down with food poisoning all at the same time now. :P
I strongly suggest you trying roulette. You'll get rich!
I don't remember if it was different in B18, but in VU1.0 Extreme difficulty, selling slaves only earns you $100 silver. It feels like you cannot become a "
Slaver tribe", can you up the prices so that we can play another game strategy variant? It's like you took away another gameplay style.
(https://i.imgur.com/cVtMkmO.png)
Also, Predators became stupider, now you can just wait until they hunt and once their prey is dead, a player can attack it as it won't turn revenge mode but flee instead, only that after a few tiles away, it will return to feed, giving the player more chances to hit a sitting duck until it finally perishes...
(https://i.imgur.com/RljQZ4F.png)
I will never understand "
players" that "
complain" about Predators...aahahahahahaaa
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2018, 02:16:31 PM
...
Quote from: Bowman on June 23, 2018, 09:22:23 AM
-*Edited in: food poisoning has a problem: I know it's coming but the colonist is not considered sick. I can't just send them to a hospital bed or to their own bed even. Would be great if I could do that once they have the initial effect. What I do now is I draft them and have them waiting next to their own bed - in parts because they also drop their weapons and if I don't manually track a poisoned colonist their weapon ends up in the river and loses 10% before I can get someone to pick it up... Frustrating.
I agree. It should be possible to send food poisoning to the hospital bed.
It also should be possible to treat it with meds, to cancel out possible KO. In that case i won't have anything against it incapacitating pawns. If you have the meds to treat it - they shouldn't drop.
QuoteAlso, Predators became stupider, now you can just wait until they hunt and once their prey is dead, a player can attack it as it won't turn revenge mode but flee instead, only that after a few tiles away, it will return to feed, giving the player more chances to hit a sitting duck until it finally perishes...
I thought it was surprising that they lowered revenge proc on them too. The fundamental issue with them (constant manual pixel hunt) didn't change. Note that earlier in this thread, you mentioned an issue with pawns getting caught at the edge of the map...complaining about that and saying predators hunting colonists is okay is incoherent - it's the same issue wearing different clothing.
Predators targeting colonists for hunting with 0 notification remains an inconsistent implementation in Rimworld in 1.0 and that has yet to be refuted in any capacity by anybody.
I agree to the above statements regarding food poisoning. Also, it would be nice if the pawn that came down with food poisoning thought that maybe it would be a good idea to lie down and rest in their bed or a medical bed instead of passing out in the middle of nowhere.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2018, 02:45:12 PM
QuoteAlso, Predators became stupider, now you can just wait until they hunt and once their prey is dead, a player can attack it as it won't turn revenge mode but flee instead, only that after a few tiles away, it will return to feed, giving the player more chances to hit a sitting duck until it finally perishes...
I thought it was surprising that they lowered revenge proc on them too. The fundamental issue with them (constant manual pixel hunt) didn't change. Note that earlier in this thread, you mentioned an issue with pawns getting caught at the edge of the map...complaining about that and saying predators hunting colonists is okay is incoherent - it's the same issue wearing different clothing.
Predators targeting colonists for hunting with 0 notification remains an inconsistent implementation in Rimworld in 1.0 and that has yet to be refuted in any capacity by anybody.
It would be nice if a notification was implemented. I agree with this. Currently, the best way I've kept my colonists safe in 1.0 is to constantly check the wildlife tab to see what the predators are up to and to see their hunger levels. I appreciate the wildlife tab a lot. :)
Yes, the wildlife tab makes it *much* less painful. However, it's still among the only interactions like this...imagine a battery you had to manually order a touch on every few days or it has a small chance to explode, deleting a pawn.
There is a mod that gives an alert when a predator targets a colonist for hunting. This is actually a strictly QoL mod - the game provides this information if you manually click on the predator.
The threat of this varies wildly by biome. It's almost nothing on tropical/temperate/sea ice, while it's a constant problem on tundra (maps can easily have only caribou and wolves wander in, and wolves won't hunt caribou so you must look CONSTANTLY).
On a more positive note, a similar issue with monitoring disease is less bad now that you can tend disease before previous tend expires, cutting into some of the requirement to constantly watch diseased pawns manually to re-tend at exactly the right moment.
I've been playing the unstable branch for a few days now and it seems the game got A LOT harder. I have almost 1200 hours experience in this game and I've always played on extreme difficulty. But now I've not been able to set up a successful colony on extreme difficulty. I have been killed by sappers and mechanoids mostly.
I admit I was a bit reliant on walls and a killbox. I don't use turrets, just a construction to feed them nicely to my gunners. But now there seems to be no use in building walls or a killbox whatsoever. I rarely get 'normal' raiders, mostly sappers, sieges and mechanoid ships.
Early game raids seem to have gotten a lot stronger too. Once I was up against 4 centipedes and 2 lancers with just 6 great bows to shoot at them. That didn't work out very well. One colony was destroyed by 6 raiders when I had just a short bow and 2 pawns, of which one was incapable of violence.
Walls get destroyed a lot quicker. I used to build granite defense pillars around the mechanoid ships, but now a burst from a heavy charge blaster destroys them and my pawns are without cover.
Then there's this change: "--Missed shots now have a 50% extra chance of hitting nothing; this will make missed shots less likely to hit random things (but doesn't change the chance of missing).". I think this is actually a pretty big thing. With many enemies clustered together missed shots used to have a good chance of hitting other enemies. This 'miss damage' is now reduced with 50%, which reduces the total damage output a lot.
I guess all these things were intended by the devs. It creates more dynamic gameplay, instead of the lemming trains into your defenses. I like it; the game is a huge challenge once again and i need to come up with new strategies. But maybe a bit more balancing is needed. Or maybe extreme difficulty should be next to impossible, which it wasn't before. What do you think?
Anyway, congrats to the devs. There's a lot of nice stuff in this update. I'm off playing Phoebe Chillax on rough difficulty now.
Edit: I just read Tynan's post 'The balancing process'. He says overall challenge got lowered, so maybe I'm just on a bad streak or something.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 23, 2018, 02:32:18 PM
I don't remember if it was different in B18, but in VU1.0 Extreme difficulty, selling slaves only earns you $100 silver. It feels like you cannot become a "Slaver tribe", can you up the prices so that we can play another game strategy variant? It's like you took away another gameplay style.
Prisoners with health issues are sold at lower price.
In caravan mode, during winter, your pawns can forage but cattle can't graze... seems legit :P
Carpet colors missing. Only red available.
IIRC I researched carpet first, then devilstrand. Don't know if that's relevant.
Loving this update.
Sappers seem much too focused on attacking walls. Even while my character is actively shooting at them, sappers continue to attack walls. Given how quickly a high-level miner can get through a wall and the current swinginess of armor deflection, it's entirely possible to have an enemy sapper run up to a stone wall and finish destroying it before a charge rifle-equipped colonist can incapacitate them.
I much preferred when sappers had to actually use explosives to get through walls, instead of tearing through them with their bare hands, Superman-style. The raiders almost always outnumber the player anyway, so they shouldn't be able to almost-instantaneously breech stone fortifications.
Another thing :
It's too easy to make allies with providing 'gifts' to visiting caravans.
Giving 260+ bottles of beer maybe is a nice gesture, but should not give over 60 relation points. I would say making a cap of 10-15 reputation per visit would balance it, and prevent being the most popular village on the planet after just 2-3 years.
I agree about "mining" sapper raids. Those are absolute bullshit. If grenadiers need to stay there for a minute chuking nades at 2tile wide granite wall, those miners rip through it like paper in 4-5 seconds. That one was kind of bullshit even in B18. They mine both through walls and through mountain tiles 10 times faster (if not more) than any of your colonists can.
Quote from: Serina on June 23, 2018, 01:40:32 PM
Imo, maybe add different severity to food poisoning. Sometimes it could just be throwing up/diarrhea, but the pawn can still move around a bit. Maybe another time it could be more severe with the pawn needing half a day's worth of bed rest, etc. B18 food poisoning was very negligible and forgotten. However, always being incapacitated due to food poisoning in 1.0 isn't very balanced either. Anyway, I don't know if they decreased chances of food poisoning recently but I haven't had a single colonist come down with food poisoning since arrival (63 days). My cook only had lvl 4 in the skills but has two flames.
Agreed completely, food poisoning should have varying degrees of severity. Also agree on the chance, it is reasonably rare, but on the off cases that they happen they make an impression, and I can usually expect a chain reaction as well, like several colonist getting poisoned at once. Probably cause of common conditions triggering it, like bad cleanliness at the time.
Quote from: PhantomFav on June 23, 2018, 03:41:23 PM
In caravan mode, during winter, your pawns can forage but cattle can't graze... seems legit :P
Foraging rate during winter is quite lower, pretty much pointless.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 23, 2018, 02:32:18 PM
I don't remember if it was different in B18, but in VU1.0 Extreme difficulty, selling slaves only earns you $100 silver. It feels like you cannot become a "Slaver tribe", can you up the prices so that we can play another game strategy variant? It's like you took away another gameplay style.
Just from looking at the picture I can see the slave is 96 years old, nearly an heart attack waiting to happen, I've exchanged some prisoner to a better one at very reasonable rate, so I don't its broken at all.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 23, 2018, 02:32:18 PM
Also, Predators became stupider, now you can just wait until they hunt and once their prey is dead, a player can attack it as it won't turn revenge mode but flee instead, only that after a few tiles away, it will return to feed, giving the player more chances to hit a sitting duck until it finally perishes...
For me its seems to be quite a reasonable strategy to hunt predators, using long range bows, good judgment applied. From my experience solely the hunter can easily down some of them, and it helps keeping livestock safe. Of course if its a bear or rhino you need to be more careful.
Quote from: gadjung on June 23, 2018, 03:52:39 PM
Giving 260+ bottles of beer maybe is a nice gesture, but should not give over 60 relation points. I would say making a cap of 10-15 reputation per visit would balance it, and prevent being the most popular village on the planet after just 2-3 years.
How do you not expect 260+ bottles of beer to not give a heft relation boost? Just try to calculate their value at that...
I have to say, I like most changes in 1.0. Especially the new QOL things that are added, the bridges, the improvements for caravanning, how armour works now, and yes, I even like the training decay for animals.
There's one thing I dislike though, that mechanoids now die on being downed, and that it's no longer possible to perform operations on mechanoids (for instance shutting them down, or removing scyther blades). I can imagine for vanilla this was only a small part of functionality that could be considered clutter, and it might have been in the way when implementing the two types of scythers. However, it offered great opportunities for modders. For instance, the more mechanoids mod had some addidtional mechanoid parts that could be scavenged. Moreover, I almost finished a mod that allows mechanoid hacking, which relied on this system, and I'm disappointing to see that it's dropped. I really hope this is revised, and that the system makes its way back.
I second @Roolo. I was reallly looking forward to his mechanoid hacking mod. I really hope that mechs being downed will be allowed again. Or at least I hope that you'll be able to get it back through your mod.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 23, 2018, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: gadjung on June 23, 2018, 03:52:39 PM
Giving 260+ bottles of beer maybe is a nice gesture, but should not give over 60 relation points. I would say making a cap of 10-15 reputation per visit would balance it, and prevent being the most popular village on the planet after just 2-3 years.
How do you not expect 260+ bottles of beer to not give a heft relation boost? Just try to calculate their value at that...
the value is around 1,6k (264 * 6.24[sell price for me])silver, so not that much. I agree to some boost, but not from 34 to 100 (total relation gain was around +97) and one becomes ally at 75. I would expect getting relation points more stretched in time, over couple of visits/missions, rather than single gift thing.
Not sure if design flaw, bug, or intended...
Can't research Fabrication/Advanced Fabrication to be able to build advanced components without having an advanced component to build a Multi-Analyzer first.
Seems a little cart before the horse to me. I ran a search and didn't see any other posts on this
I think it would be best if the Anemic ((SP?)) trait didn't make you sick when you eat raw meat or raw vegetables and gave you a mood buff! Currently it still gives you a good chance of being sick, which is quite strange to me to be honest.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2018, 02:16:31 PM
Food poisoning is variable IRL, but the in-game version is very rare.
Infection is annoying but perfect play can avoid it with naked brutality. What you can't avoid with normal play is instant game over to early disease or food poisoning RNG (even cooking only in a clean room you need a high cooking skill or you lose sometimes).
Only viable opening for NB is to press ancient dangers instantly and flee the map if you can't handle what's inside --> abandon and repeat.
Naked Brutality is very, very difficult, and seemingly gets more difficult by magnitudes when you start playing in colder biomes; so far, I've run two NB starts, (Cassandra/Rough) - my Boreal Start is up to 6 pawns, and is hanging by a slender thread...and it's by far the most fucked-up looking and poorly-organized colony that I've ever produced in 2500+ hours of gameplay, because there was no choice. My type-A personality is repulsed.
The Naked Brutality start on a Temperate Forest with a year-round growing season was much, much easier. Getting the absolute basic survival stuff (shelter, a ranged weapon, enough food to last more than a day) was a cakewalk by comparison.
In short: I'm of the opinion that so much has to do with the biome that you choose to start Naked Brutality in. So many gameplay aspects have been nerfed significantly in 1.0 that it takes a fundamental reassessment of how to effectively play colder maps.
My most valuable personal reassessment is: start small, and stay small for a while. There's just not enough resources on colder maps to sustain more than a small handful of pawns (2-3) through the first winter. Others may have different experiences.
After the adjustments to the centipedes were made I feel like this game is much more fair but close to the nail of defeat at all times on extreme mode like it should be. It feels like I have to relearn a lot of things to be able to play a game on that difficulty for too long. Although I do feel like illness in the early game was unfair. The infection rate later on seems 100% legit and forgiving if you manage it properly.
Kill boxes strategy isn't the 1 stop shop for all success which is refreshing. If you were use to doing extreme with that tatic you probably will have to lower the difficulty while you learn new base designes that help vs sappers and mechanoids.
Just like those with mountain bases had to rethink that strategy in the past with infestations.
Quote from: Roolo on June 23, 2018, 04:09:37 PM
I have to say, I like most changes in 1.0. Especially the new QOL things that are added, the bridges, the improvements for caravanning, how armour works now, and yes, I even like the training decay for animals.
There's one thing I dislike though, that mechanoids now die on being downed, and that it's no longer possible to perform operations on mechanoids (for instance shutting them down, or removing scyther blades). I can imagine for vanilla this was only a small part of functionality that could be considered clutter, and it might have been in the way when implementing the two types of scythers. However, it offered great opportunities for modders. For instance, the more mechanoids mod had some addidtional mechanoid parts that could be scavenged. Moreover, I almost finished a mod that allows mechanoid hacking, which relied on this system, and I'm disappointing to see that it's dropped. I really hope this is revised, and that the system makes its way back.
It seemed like that change (the inability to remove Scyther Blades/recover Miniguns) was motivated by trying to remove the financial benefit of them: in the mid/late game, you could practically base an entire ecomony off of selling Scyther Blades, which were among the most valuable (and portable) trading items around. You could load a caravan up with 12 Scyther Blades, and clean house when you reached a friendly outpost to sell them.
I'd love to see them come back because they added flavor to the gameplay, and I really hate to see cool, quirky items disappear from the narrative. As an aside, weirdly enough, I feel the same way about the condensing of Leather Types: the new system is much more straightforward and easy to understand, and is better overall for gameplay, but I can't tell you how many times I went through my inventory in B18 and saw leathers that reminded me of how I got them ("Where the hell did this boomrat leather come from? Oh, yeah, the manhunter boomrat pack last year....") What's good for gameplay doesn't necessarily translate into a good (and memorable) narrative element, and one of my favorite things about this game is how quirky, weird and incongruous it often is...and how often there are little reminders of those past game events laying around all over the place that make you pause the game for a second to reflect on them.
Back to the Scyther Blades/Gun Drop removal: If I'm correct in assessing the motivation behind removing them, my suggestion would be to reintroduce them, but de-value the Scyther Blade to a fraction of their original value (worth at most 50 Silver apiece, maybe?), and make the Minigun/Weapon drops so that the weapon is inoperable, nearly worthless to trade, but can still be recovered and smelted.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 23, 2018, 05:55:06 PM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 23, 2018, 02:16:31 PM
Food poisoning is variable IRL, but the in-game version is very rare.
Infection is annoying but perfect play can avoid it with naked brutality. What you can't avoid with normal play is instant game over to early disease or food poisoning RNG (even cooking only in a clean room you need a high cooking skill or you lose sometimes).
Only viable opening for NB is to press ancient dangers instantly and flee the map if you can't handle what's inside --> abandon and repeat.
Naked Brutality is very, very difficult, and seemingly gets more difficult by magnitudes when you start playing in colder biomes; so far, I've run two NB starts, (Cassandra/Rough) - my Boreal Start is up to 6 pawns, and is hanging by a slender thread...and it's by far the most fucked-up looking and poorly-organized colony that I've ever produced in 2500+ hours of gameplay, because there was no choice. My type-A personality is repulsed.
The Naked Brutality start on a Temperate Forest with a year-round growing season was much, much easier. Getting the absolute basic survival stuff (shelter, a ranged weapon, enough food to last more than a day) was a cakewalk by comparison.
In short: I'm of the opinion that so much has to do with the biome that you choose to start Naked Brutality in. So many gameplay aspects have been nerfed significantly in 1.0 that it takes a fundamental reassessment of how to effectively play colder maps.
My most valuable personal reassessment is: start small, and stay small for a while. There's just not enough resources on colder maps to sustain more than a small handful of pawns (2-3) through the first winter. Others may have different experiences.
If you have enough wood to cook food as a tribe, you can feed 6+ consistently on tundra (I've yet to see a viable ice sheet start on tribal in any recent patch).
Problem with NB is it has a lot of real difficulty but also a non-trivial amount of 100% fake difficulty (die to RNG).
The heavy nerf to planting trees (might be a little much) actually nerfed deserts more than anything nerfed boreal/tundra in 1.0. Alpha beavers hitting early in desert in NB puts you in a bad spot.
I hope Mechanoids can be turned off/harvest for scyther blades, if only because I've been looking forward to Roolo's mechanoid mod since forever. Even if it doesn't, I hope it's in the game code somewhere so modders can use them!
Also devaluing scyther blades to like 50 Silver a pop may be a good way so as to not make the game too easy. I don't mind Centipedes automatically dying since shutting them off was just extra work, but as some modders rely on this frame, I hope it does come back. Maybe even have a very low chance to salvage the minigun off them?
Maybe you should stop playing NB mode if you can't stand dying for certain. Maybe this scenario mode shouldn't have been introduced as it seems to bring a significiant amount of complaints. This mode is for those who are not that perfect, but skilled enough to know pawn's age, skills, traits as well as location's biome, disease frequency, vegetation time, temperature and deal with most inconveniences. If devs implemented some features that remove this certainty of a loss in NB scenario, it would also affect the remaining scenarios, which are non-extreme ones, meaning that you'd get an easy way to make everybody pretty, healthy and rich. Years with no one dying - this is what devs are trying to avoid in a decent difficulty.
Try NB on peaceful mode and give a feedback. Once you get bored getting out of loneliness, you may start again from a base builder, and so on.
About sappers mining walls so quickly, I know a great counter to it - fight. As you do against drop pod attacks inside your base - just man up and fight your enemies. Stop depending on walls as a way to stop your enemies or manipulating them into your traps - use them as cover for your shooters and put melee fighters behind them to engage sappers into melee fight.
QuoteIf you have enough wood to cook food as a tribe, you can feed 6+ consistently on tundra (I've yet to see a viable ice sheet start on tribal in any recent patch).
For tribes, agreed. The difference is Pemmican, which makes all the difference in the world. Tribal starts will have it, Naked Brutality doesn't, and that changes everything: you can't stockpile any food effectively for a very long time.
My last B18 start, I did a custom Tribal scenario: One Tribal pawn, 75 Pemmican, a Short Bow, Tribal cloth clothing, and a Warg. Among the first things I did was secure a few days' worth of food, via campfire/pemmican. That frees a solo pawn up to start gathering healroot, planting crops, chopping wood, additional hunting and gathering, without worrying about starving within 48 hours.
That scenario was a breeze, comparitively. Having no way to stockpile food for longer than a day or two changes everything, and that's exactly what makes NB so tough a start. Stockpiling *anything* is near-impossible: it's getting used as soon as it's produced.
Brilliant idea, sir. You get up to 25-30 armored raiders with automatic weaponry like assault rifles, heavy SMGs and even a triple launcher, but all you need to do is really just confront them with your brave 14 people, 4 of which are pacifists, 2 have pieces of wood for legs, one got his eye scratched out by a mad bunny. You have mostly survival rifles, shotguns, short range machine pistols and the like, but don't let it worry you! Just man up, drop the dependency on walls and those pathetic turrets and go out with a blaze. Then get mutilated, raped and kidnapped - no big deal, you can always just start over.
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 23, 2018, 07:52:03 PM
Maybe you should stop playing NB mode if you can't stand dying for certain. Maybe this scenario mode shouldn't have been introduced as it seems to bring a significiant amount of complaints. This mode is for those who are not that perfect, but skilled enough to know pawn's age, skills, traits as well as location's biome, disease frequency, vegetation time, temperature and deal with most inconveniences. If devs implemented some features that remove this certainty of a loss in NB scenario, it would also affect the remaining scenarios, which are non-extreme ones, meaning that you'd get an easy way to make everybody pretty, healthy and rich. Years with no one dying - this is what devs are trying to avoid in a decent difficulty.
Try NB on peaceful mode and give a feedback. Once you get bored getting out of loneliness, you may start again from a base builder, and so on.
About sappers mining walls so quickly, I know a great counter to it - fight. As you do against drop pod attacks inside your base - just man up and fight your enemies. Stop depending on walls as a way to stop your enemies or manipulating them into your traps - use them as cover for your shooters and put melee fighters behind them to engage sappers into melee fight.
Both my Naked Brutality starts have lasted well over a game year without any deaths on Cassandra/Rough, and are still going - no deaths on either. First colony is at 6 pawns, second colony is at 3. I've restarted (and am doing a third re-start) to gauge the changes of the daily patches for 1.0 on gameplay, and my own strategies.
Commenting about difficulty is entirely different than complaining about it...as is noting potential scenarios which arise with 1.0 that make gameplay prohibitively difficult, if any are found. This entire thread is about feedback and user experiences of 1.0, so...this is the place to discuss impressions and suggestions if there ever were one.
I think the mechnoid ships should have two advanced components. Assuming a location where you can not trade around, you need four more advanced components to produce an advanced component, which means you have to destroy four ships. It has four ships too many. I think it would be appropriate to have two ships. Also, when the ship comes, it will give you a challenging pleasure because you can do something with rewards.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 23, 2018, 07:34:53 PM
I hope Mechanoids can be turned off/harvest for scyther blades, if only because I've been looking forward to Roolo's mechanoid mod since forever. Even if it doesn't, I hope it's in the game code somewhere so modders can use them!
I tried look into this and it looks like Defs/PawnCapacityDefs/PawnCapacity.xml holds the answer. It has Consciousness on top and it has a bool called lethalMechanoids set. I assume setting it to false will allow mechanoids to be disabled without actually killing them.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 23, 2018, 07:34:53 PMAlso devaluing scyther blades to like 50 Silver a pop may be a good way so as to not make the game too easy. I don't mind Centipedes automatically dying since shutting them off was just extra work, but as some modders rely on this frame, I hope it does come back. Maybe even have a very low chance to salvage the minigun off them?
Just make other factions reject buying mechanoid technology. It's against their religion or something. Problem solved. Another issue to consider is what if you sell lots of weapons to some faction and then they turn on you? Should you be killed by an army full of people with scyther blades or miniguns or whatever you sold them? The whole concept of selling weapons to potential future enemies is a bit weird if you start to think about it. And even if the faction in question is ok, they could be raided and then the raiders have the weapons.
Realistically speaking, some weapons should be so dangerous in the wrong hands that your best option should be to take them apart if you don't want to use them yourself.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 23, 2018, 08:06:02 PM
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 23, 2018, 07:52:03 PM
Maybe you should stop playing NB mode if you can't stand dying for certain. Maybe this scenario mode shouldn't have been introduced as it seems to bring a significiant amount of complaints. This mode is for those who are not that perfect, but skilled enough to know pawn's age, skills, traits as well as location's biome, disease frequency, vegetation time, temperature and deal with most inconveniences. If devs implemented some features that remove this certainty of a loss in NB scenario, it would also affect the remaining scenarios, which are non-extreme ones, meaning that you'd get an easy way to make everybody pretty, healthy and rich. Years with no one dying - this is what devs are trying to avoid in a decent difficulty.
Try NB on peaceful mode and give a feedback. Once you get bored getting out of loneliness, you may start again from a base builder, and so on.
About sappers mining walls so quickly, I know a great counter to it - fight. As you do against drop pod attacks inside your base - just man up and fight your enemies. Stop depending on walls as a way to stop your enemies or manipulating them into your traps - use them as cover for your shooters and put melee fighters behind them to engage sappers into melee fight.
Both my Naked Brutality starts have lasted well over a game year without any deaths on Cassandra/Rough, and are still going - no deaths on either. First colony is at 6 pawns, second colony is at 3. I've restarted (and am doing a third re-start) to gauge the changes of the daily patches for 1.0 on gameplay, and my own strategies.
Commenting about difficulty is entirely different than complaining about it...as is noting potential scenarios which arise with 1.0 that make gameplay prohibitively difficult, if any are found. This entire thread is about feedback and user experiences of 1.0, so...this is the place to discuss impressions and suggestions if there ever were one.
Bro on extreme I've never been in a situation like that, A18 or 1.0. If I'm being attacked by a massive raid I may be out numbered but I usually have comparable fire power. Sappers still also pour through a choke like a bunch of idiots which makes for easy pickings of people running for cover. Basic strategy and pawn placement will have you easily win any engagement like that, and if you are a ever at a point like that in a game you should have at least one disposable rocket or orbital strike to clean that shit up if you're that late game. This really just sounds like complaining from someone who needs to play on a lower difficulty. Just cause you can't handle every situation with a kill box doesn't mean the game is broke.
It would be awesome if there was some improvement in pathfinding.
Yeah... Deathless dream of colonists actually dodgin trees instead of vaulting over.
Impressions from my first few minutes:
- I kinda miss the old blueprints. Maybe if they were still blue but brighter they would work for everyone.
- The raspberry bush looks pretty bad. It looks like a tomato bush. Liked it better before.
- It's nice that you don't need to generate the world map in game. I assume it's front loaded, so...yeah, loading took a long time, I think, but the gameplay was smoother.
- (trivial) I would like to be able to set a default drug policy for whomever joins the colony.
- Combat log looks rather disorganized. Wildlife is "unaffiliated." Maybe if you put some kind of line break type thing between the settings in that window and where the log is it would look better.
- Wildlife tab: not sure how I feel about this. It's like a developer tool to omnisciently sense all life in the area. The ease of marking animals to train looks nice, but honestly I feel like you should have to look around and pick a good one. Seems too powerful.
So, of course it seems less polished than the stable beta ATM...the nightmare is liking the last beta more than the finished product. Watch this space. ;)
Quote from: Zoolder on June 23, 2018, 08:46:07 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 23, 2018, 08:06:02 PM
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 23, 2018, 07:52:03 PM
Maybe you should stop playing NB mode if you can't stand dying for certain. Maybe this scenario mode shouldn't have been introduced as it seems to bring a significiant amount of complaints. This mode is for those who are not that perfect, but skilled enough to know pawn's age, skills, traits as well as location's biome, disease frequency, vegetation time, temperature and deal with most inconveniences. If devs implemented some features that remove this certainty of a loss in NB scenario, it would also affect the remaining scenarios, which are non-extreme ones, meaning that you'd get an easy way to make everybody pretty, healthy and rich. Years with no one dying - this is what devs are trying to avoid in a decent difficulty.
Try NB on peaceful mode and give a feedback. Once you get bored getting out of loneliness, you may start again from a base builder, and so on.
About sappers mining walls so quickly, I know a great counter to it - fight. As you do against drop pod attacks inside your base - just man up and fight your enemies. Stop depending on walls as a way to stop your enemies or manipulating them into your traps - use them as cover for your shooters and put melee fighters behind them to engage sappers into melee fight.
Both my Naked Brutality starts have lasted well over a game year without any deaths on Cassandra/Rough, and are still going - no deaths on either. First colony is at 6 pawns, second colony is at 3. I've restarted (and am doing a third re-start) to gauge the changes of the daily patches for 1.0 on gameplay, and my own strategies.
Commenting about difficulty is entirely different than complaining about it...as is noting potential scenarios which arise with 1.0 that make gameplay prohibitively difficult, if any are found. This entire thread is about feedback and user experiences of 1.0, so...this is the place to discuss impressions and suggestions if there ever were one.
Bro on extreme I've never been in a situation like that, A18 or 1.0. If I'm being attacked by a massive raid I may be out numbered but I usually have comparable fire power. Sappers still also pour through a choke like a bunch of idiots which makes for easy pickings of people running for cover. Basic strategy and pawn placement will have you easily win any engagement like that, and if you are a ever at a point like that in a game you should have at least one disposable rocket or orbital strike to clean that shit up if you're that late game. This really just sounds like complaining from someone who needs to play on a lower difficulty. Just cause you can't handle every situation with a kill box doesn't mean the game is broke.
Uh...why are you quoting my post? Go back and re-read the last page...think you got me mixed up with someone else. And I disagree...I don't think he's complaining at all: I think he plays the game the way that is enjoyable for him, which is as valid as any other opinion here.
Some people don't mind a body-count for their pawns. Others do, and that makes a difference in their strategy choices. Advice like "man up and fight" is somewhat condescending, and sheds no new light on things; I doubt highly that Madman666 is a rookie at this game, and I'm positive I'm not...
1531 hour played in RW... yeah. If I am still a noob after that, maybe i should just retire.
Friendly reminder to all testers to play nice and don't be rude to one another over their experiences compared to yours. We want ALL FEEDBACK.
Now with the inclusion of plate armor, perhaps add a medieval faction?
.
.
.
And matching helmets?
Additionally, what about chainmail? Studded leather? Crossbows? It would be great if the medieval era was fleshed out a bit more.
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 23, 2018, 11:19:59 AM
Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.
Wherever [DebuggerHidden] is coming from, it's not defined in our source code. Kind of a mystery... and thoughts from anyone appreciated.
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 23, 2018, 08:45:17 PM
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 23, 2018, 07:34:53 PM
I hope Mechanoids can be turned off/harvest for scyther blades, if only because I've been looking forward to Roolo's mechanoid mod since forever. Even if it doesn't, I hope it's in the game code somewhere so modders can use them!
I tried look into this and it looks like Defs/PawnCapacityDefs/PawnCapacity.xml holds the answer. It has Consciousness on top and it has a bool called lethalMechanoids set. I assume setting it to false will allow mechanoids to be disabled without actually killing them.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 23, 2018, 07:34:53 PMAlso devaluing scyther blades to like 50 Silver a pop may be a good way so as to not make the game too easy. I don't mind Centipedes automatically dying since shutting them off was just extra work, but as some modders rely on this frame, I hope it does come back. Maybe even have a very low chance to salvage the minigun off them?
Just make other factions reject buying mechanoid technology. It's against their religion or something. Problem solved. Another issue to consider is what if you sell lots of weapons to some faction and then they turn on you? Should you be killed by an army full of people with scyther blades or miniguns or whatever you sold them? The whole concept of selling weapons to potential future enemies is a bit weird if you start to think about it. And even if the faction in question is ok, they could be raided and then the raiders have the weapons.
Realistically speaking, some weapons should be so dangerous in the wrong hands that your best option should be to take them apart if you don't want to use them yourself.
Good to know mech downing can probably be turned on again by setting one parameter to true, that's at least one problem solved. However, the ability to operate has also been removed. Getting that back is definitely possible, but asks for the extra effort of reimplementing a system that was basically there already (including the shutdown operation at least). Again, this is all possible by just throwing in some time, but reimplementing something that was already there makes me wonder why it was removed in the first place, hence my feedback earlier.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 23, 2018, 02:32:18 PM
I don't remember if it was different in B18, but in VU1.0 Extreme difficulty, selling slaves only earns you $100 silver. It feels like you cannot become a "Slaver tribe", can you up the prices so that we can play another game strategy variant? It's like you took away another gameplay style.
(https://i.imgur.com/cVtMkmO.png)
That dude is 96 years old! Reasonably-aged, healthy slaves are still quite valuable in-game.
Quote from: SpoonBender on June 23, 2018, 03:29:59 PM
I've been playing the unstable branch for a few days now and it seems the game got A LOT harder. I have almost 1200 hours experience in this game and I've always played on extreme difficulty. But now I've not been able to set up a successful colony on extreme difficulty. I have been killed by sappers and mechanoids mostly.
I admit I was a bit reliant on walls and a killbox. I don't use turrets, just a construction to feed them nicely to my gunners. But now there seems to be no use in building walls or a killbox whatsoever. I rarely get 'normal' raiders, mostly sappers, sieges and mechanoid ships.
Early game raids seem to have gotten a lot stronger too. Once I was up against 4 centipedes and 2 lancers with just 6 great bows to shoot at them. That didn't work out very well. One colony was destroyed by 6 raiders when I had just a short bow and 2 pawns, of which one was incapable of violence.
Walls get destroyed a lot quicker. I used to build granite defense pillars around the mechanoid ships, but now a burst from a heavy charge blaster destroys them and my pawns are without cover.
Then there's this change: "--Missed shots now have a 50% extra chance of hitting nothing; this will make missed shots less likely to hit random things (but doesn't change the chance of missing).". I think this is actually a pretty big thing. With many enemies clustered together missed shots used to have a good chance of hitting other enemies. This 'miss damage' is now reduced with 50%, which reduces the total damage output a lot.
I guess all these things were intended by the devs. It creates more dynamic gameplay, instead of the lemming trains into your defenses. I like it; the game is a huge challenge once again and i need to come up with new strategies. But maybe a bit more balancing is needed. Or maybe extreme difficulty should be next to impossible, which it wasn't before. What do you think?
Anyway, congrats to the devs. There's a lot of nice stuff in this update. I'm off playing Phoebe Chillax on rough difficulty now.
Edit: I just read Tynan's post 'The balancing process'. He says overall challenge got lowered, so maybe I'm just on a bad streak or something.
For the main gameplay modes I think the overall challenge is lowered, but critically, the cheese tactics you were depending on before have been countered. Especially at Extreme.
So the result is, normal tactics work better, and cheese tactics don't work as well. Which means if you were using cheese, it'll seem harder, and if you were using normal tactics, it'll seem easier. Since you were using cheese, it seems a lot harder.
Honestly the way you describe it is how I want Extreme to be. It's supposed to be really fucking hard. Finishing on that level should be a serious achievement not possible without some dedicated play and a dose of luck.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 03:58:41 PM
I agree about "mining" sapper raids. Those are absolute bullshit. If grenadiers need to stay there for a minute chuking nades at 2tile wide granite wall, those miners rip through it like paper in 4-5 seconds. That one was kind of bullshit even in B18. They mine both through walls and through mountain tiles 10 times faster (if not more) than any of your colonists can.
Really no need to get angry, just give your opinion please. We do have rules against sustained hostility and anger venting like that.
That said, your point has been echoed elsewhere so I am planning on slowing down miner sappers somehow.
Quote from: Roolo on June 23, 2018, 04:09:37 PM
I have to say, I like most changes in 1.0. Especially the new QOL things that are added, the bridges, the improvements for caravanning, how armour works now, and yes, I even like the training decay for animals.
There's one thing I dislike though, that mechanoids now die on being downed, and that it's no longer possible to perform operations on mechanoids (for instance shutting them down, or removing scyther blades). I can imagine for vanilla this was only a small part of functionality that could be considered clutter, and it might have been in the way when implementing the two types of scythers. However, it offered great opportunities for modders. For instance, the more mechanoids mod had some addidtional mechanoid parts that could be scavenged. Moreover, I almost finished a mod that allows mechanoid hacking, which relied on this system, and I'm disappointing to see that it's dropped. I really hope this is revised, and that the system makes its way back.
It's perfectly possible to mod things so mechs don't die on being downed, that shouldn't be a huge problem I think.
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().
Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:34:42 AM
Really no need to get angry, just give your opinion please. We do have rules against sustained hostility and anger venting like that.
That said, your point has been echoed elsewhere so I am planning on slowing down miner sappers somehow.
Thanks for answering. No hostility of whatsoever, Tynan, i guess using the bs word sounded a tad too rude, so if it offended anyone, accept my apologies. Its just that compared to actual grenadiers, that have to throw nades at walls\mountains, sappers that mine through make it seem like a walk in the park - couple "tinks" on a limestone wall and its gone. While colonists on the other hand take forever to dismantle walls, both by deconstructing and through use of weapons. Seems a bit unfair. So i am glad its being revised.
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:47:21 AM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().
Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback.
Quote from: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 12:59:09 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:47:21 AM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().
Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback.
It was removed because it was just busywork to have to shut them down. Taking their guns was removed because it was a massive free money fountain at the exact time in the game (late game) when money was already overbalanced. Scyther blade was removed for related reasons to above and because it created a bug that was nearly unsolvable without serious changes to how our health system works: It reduced Manipulation ability, which also made the pawn bad at fighting in melee. The system doesn't suppose distinguishing manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-melee and manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-work, so the system was unable to express what scyther blades really meant. It was always bugged for this reason. I decided I'd rather cut it and add other stuff that fit in cleanly.
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 01:04:32 AM
Quote from: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 12:59:09 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:47:21 AM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().
Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback.
It was removed because it was just busywork to have to shut them down. Taking their guns was removed because it was a massive free money fountain at the exact time in the game (late game) when money was already overbalanced. Scyther blade was removed for related reasons to above and because it created a bug that was nearly unsolvable without serious changes to how our health system works: It reduced Manipulation ability, which also made the pawn bad at fighting in melee. The system doesn't suppose distinguishing manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-melee and manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-work, so the system was unable to express what scyther blades really meant. It was always bugged for this reason. I decided I'd rather cut it and add other stuff that fit in cleanly.
Thanks again for the reply. That clears things up. Still, the money fountain problem could have been resolved without removing the feature, but the other complaints seem valid, so I can see why you didn't bother to spend more time on it. Good luck with wrapping things up!
It would be good to see fertility, when building a growing zone.
On the whole I like the changes and additions to RimWorld.
I like the simplification of the crafting levels, the removal of Shoddy and Superior, although probably I'll miss Superior.
I love having the Wildlife Tab in vanilla.
I love the decrease in energy cost for basic lamps.
I love the smoothed walls (and floors from before, of course), but I think the build time for them has increased way too much. They also look great.
I love the new butcher spot.
I love the ability to refuel the fires and torches.
I like the look of the blueprints.
I like the tab to see exactly what a trader will buy - even if it is so limited. :)
I like the renaming of Joy to Recreation.
While not being able to build a roof if there's a tree in the area was confusing at first with the popup, I like the idea and execution.
I love the new icon on the pawns showing their inspiration.
I HATE the excess time taken away from work so very frequently for recreation/wandering/stargazing/cloudwatching. It now takes FOREVER to do anything at all. Yes, I made a horseshoe post right away, but it didn't help enough. I can't express enough how much this kills my enjoyment and how much I don't want to play again when I know I'm facing the same thing.
I don't like the excess difficulty and time it now takes to train pets. The extra step added is fine, but the other time extensions seem punitive.
I don't like the difficulty in trading with visitors, especially in the beginning. They aren't very often and those limits hurt. I can see it working just fine later in the game.
I don't like how the gifting system works. Maybe I don't understand it, which is very likely, but I haven't yet been able to give a gift. Perhaps more explanation or tips, please.
I don't like that I have to already have a number of advanced components to be able to make the benches to fabricate them. While I did see a trader with a couple, it was in early game and I couldn't afford them then.
I don't like the slowness of plants growing in the wild. The grass cover seemed exceptionally sparse in the Temperate Forest I was playing in most recently - also the availability of the wild berries was very low. :(
There's more, of course, but those are the things that stick out right now.
Thank you for 1.0, Ludeon Studios!
i guess in addition what i posted before regarding cooling and water, swimming traits that give movement speed boosts in water would be interesting.. it would be hilarious to see a raider skip a river you was using as a chokepoint to melee your people from behind
Found a good one... probably should be a bug.
This guy's waist is "cut off". Not only is he miraculously still alive, he apparently still has his legs and can move. LOL
(https://www.screencast.com/t/lTjNJkxU)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Ardshael on June 24, 2018, 02:47:26 AM
Found a good one... probably should be a bug.
This guy's waist is "cut off". Not only is he miraculously still alive, he apparently still has his legs and can move. LOL
(https://www.screencast.com/t/lTjNJkxU)
The waist isn't normally a hittable part of the body; it's meant to just be an attachment point for belts and things. (Hence why the legs aren't connected to it.) It's very odd that it was able to come up as an attack target
at all; I thought they had 0% coverage?
Quote from: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 07:58:56 PM
Brilliant idea, sir. You get up to 25-30 armored raiders with automatic weaponry like assault rifles, heavy SMGs and even a triple launcher, but all you need to do is really just confront them with your brave 14 people, 4 of which are pacifists, 2 have pieces of wood for legs, one got his eye scratched out by a mad bunny. You have mostly survival rifles, shotguns, short range machine pistols and the like, but don't let it worry you! Just man up, drop the dependency on walls and those pathetic turrets and go out with a blaze. Then get mutilated, raped and kidnapped - no big deal, you can always just start over.
I usually peek-shot them from structures outside my perimeter wall, which interrupts their AI script. Though that late in the game you can throw in an insanity lance or shock lance to force a switch and stall too.
I've been running NB scenarios except swapped to strating in tribe tech on extreme. It was painful going at first, because if you get food poisoned (can't 100% control this) or contract early disease you're dead. I was able to mitigate the latter via raiding ancient dangers and abandoning base to stack up 50 luciferium and some power armor before finally settling. Had to survive a few 3 vs 10 raids and had a drop pod raid in year 1 that burned my kitchen and dining/work/rec room, but since the map has lots of trees this isn't game over and I've re-walled and rebuilt most of that stuff, starting to stabilize.
Even Cas can screw you early though, and the RNG isn't a matter of skill, no amount of "thinking" gets you past RNG food poisoning, since there's no reliable option for non-food poisoned outcomes unless you reroll for a great cook.
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 23, 2018, 11:19:59 AM
Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.
Wherever [DebuggerHidden] is coming from, it's not defined in our source code. Kind of a mystery... and thoughts from anyone appreciated.
This happens for any iterator method (methods returning IEnumerable). I'm not sure why, but I can imagine the annotation is there to make clear that the method displayed has a hidden object inside it.
@Nightinggale The problem of not being able to patch the method is in fact not caused by the [DebuggerHidden] annotation. You're not able to patch it with a transpiler because under the hood the method doesn't do anything but returning a c__Iterator object. Inside this c__Iterator object is a method called "MoveNext", which contains the logic you see in the method. So if you want to patch anything inside the iterator method, you shouldn't patch the method directly, but you should patch the MoveNext method inside the hidden object that your method returns.
Patching this won't work with normal harmony patches since there's no way to target this hidden object that way, but there's a way to make it work by specifying TargetMethod(). It may sound complicated, but here's an example:
//example transpiler patch of Pawn.GetGizmos, which is an iterator method which isn't accessible the regular way
[HarmonyPatch]
public static class Pawn_GetGizmos_Transpiler {
static MethodBase TargetMethod()//The target method is found using the custom logic defined here
{
var predicateClass = typeof(Pawn).GetNestedTypes(AccessTools.all)
.FirstOrDefault(t => t.FullName.Contains("c__Iterator2"));//c__Iterator2 is the hidden object's name, the number at the end of the name may vary. View the IL code to find out the name
return predicateClass.GetMethods(AccessTools.all).FirstOrDefault(m => m.Name.Contains("MoveNext")); //Look for the method MoveNext inside the hidden iterator object
}
static IEnumerable<CodeInstruction> Transpiler(IEnumerable<CodeInstruction> instructions)
{
//transpiler code here
}
}
When viewing the IL code in your decompiler, you can find that your original method contains only code to call the hidden iterator object, and you can find the hidden iterator object, and see that it contains the code of your original method.
I hope this is a bit clear, send me a PM if you still have questions.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 07:58:56 PM
Brilliant idea, sir. You get up to 25-30 armored raiders with automatic weaponry like assault rifles, heavy SMGs and even a triple launcher, but all you need to do is really just confront them with your brave 14 people, 4 of which are pacifists, 2 have pieces of wood for legs, one got his eye scratched out by a mad bunny. You have mostly survival rifles, shotguns, short range machine pistols and the like, but don't let it worry you! Just man up, drop the dependency on walls and those pathetic turrets and go out with a blaze. Then get mutilated, raped and kidnapped - no big deal, you can always just start over.
In B18, I used to get raids 3 times greater in amount of people with advanced weaponry and armory, including multiple doomsday launchers. It was Cassandra rough difficulty and results of the raid made me switch the difficulty to intense. I had a colony of 6 decent people. Any useless ones were banished.
If you keep colonists with peg legs, scratched eye and IoV, it might be a good idea to do something with them. And if you let them attack your colony avoiding turrets, it's something wrong there as turrets are replacable.
This time the animal AI is getting worse.
(B18) When the owner of the animal was determined and the owner was called, the animal immediately moved to that area.
(1.0) Now the animal does not respond even if the owner is called.
Did not you accidentally restore the old version while making changes?
Tynan has mentioned that animal reaction to the owner drafting has been improved, although I didn't know what it meant as this feature in B18 was just fine and I couldn't imagine better.
I'm looking at my colonists and think there are just too many negative traits. Hence the +1 for green thumb, instead of more sickly, excess eaters and such. Actually, why not have more positive than negative traits? (fun!)
btw, your previous graphics guy was better, some of the new icons and items look much worse than before ;-)
Example is medicine, silver, bed, wind turbine, mining icon, the new ones miss the feel of the original ones. I'm surprised you want to tweak something which was perfect.
"The raspberry bush looks pretty bad. It looks like a tomato bush. Liked it better before."
Yeah x1000000, looks like something I would do in Paint with my 0 artist skill level. It is clearly more visible, but the old one was perfect fit for the game.
Hard to tell whether the wildlife tab is good idea, you had to look yourself for animals - wildlife tab makes it easy, but misses the fun and effort of searching yourself, game becomes more automatic, click-done. So no thinking involved, no effort involved to look around from time to time. Idk, might be 'too much'. Making it so automatic that the game misses the fun and slight effort aspect of doing it. It's a good idea on paper, but makes the game too automatic and devoid of this slight effort that was previously needed.
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:32:34 AM
For the main gameplay modes I think the overall challenge is lowered, but critically, the cheese tactics you were depending on before have been countered. Especially at Extreme.
So the result is, normal tactics work better, and cheese tactics don't work as well. Which means if you were using cheese, it'll seem harder, and if you were using normal tactics, it'll seem easier. Since you were using cheese, it seems a lot harder.
Honestly the way you describe it is how I want Extreme to be. It's supposed to be really fucking hard. Finishing on that level should be a serious achievement not possible without some dedicated play and a dose of luck.
All those hours of playing, only to be called a cheeser by the dev. :D
But you are correct. Since caravaning was introduced my goal has always been to set up an easily defendable colony, so I could focus on raiding the pirates. I aimed to wipe all pirates camps of the map and achieve world peace. I never intend to actually leave the Rimworld, I want to rule it.
There was no real challenge in defending the main base anymore and once you got advanced enough the pirate camps weren't that hard either. So my interest dropped and I didn't play much last year. Now I'm back at it, cursing at the game like a newby and rethinking my strategies. So you did a very good job!
On more Questing:
1. Idk how incapitated refugees are balanced now, but in both missions, I sent a single melee/medic pawn to save a refugee, and the only thing that ambushed me was a single scyther. Is the difficulty of quests now tied to how equipped your colonists are?
2. The new gifting mechanic is great, though it needs some balancing. It's very easy to just drop pod 40 shitty t-shirts and get on their good side.
3a. One thing that I still have not seen implemented is the use of drop pods to fulfill caravan requests. One outlander faction wanted 24 t-shirts and was willing to part with 14 advanced components to get em'. I SHOULD be able to just drop pod the whole thing, but each time I needed to send my best soldier/medic to complete the transaction. The reason of course being you need a pawn to "fulfill trade request". It would be nice, at least for outlander unions and not tribals, for me to just drop pod the stuff and they can drop pod the goodies.
It usually starts and ends with me loading the gear, my pawn, a muffalo, shoot them to the faction, and waits for three days to get him.
3b. Also related, drop pod UI is still not great. Can't see what's inside the pod, and can't easily add stuff to it. Needs more lovin'.
4. "Offer help" to the incapitated refugee was very much needed. I still see YouTubers playing on B18's sending a squad to help and said refugee walks off. It would also be nice, IMO, to be able "shackle/capture" enemies, so players don't spend time building a shack and shoving everyone in it.
5. Also would be nice if pawns can take out meds from their inventory or their animal's inventory and patch people right then and there. When you arrive by caravan, everything is on your pack animal/inventory. If you drop pod, everything drops on the floor (makes sense). Basically, Smart Medicine should be vanilla, but I understand if this is too much of a time sink to do.
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 24, 2018, 04:10:59 AM
In B18, I used to get raids 3 times greater in amount of people with advanced weaponry and armory, including multiple doomsday launchers. It was Cassandra rough difficulty and results of the raid made me switch the difficulty to intense. I had a colony of 6 decent people. Any useless ones were banished.
If you keep colonists with peg legs, scratched eye and IoV, it might be a good idea to do something with them. And if you let them attack your colony avoiding turrets, it's something wrong there as turrets are replacable.
Couple fair points, but you can't always be choosy with people you get. Raid difficulty goes up regardles of you getting new pawns or not. Your luck with potential recruits can be extremely poor, as the game likes it very much to leave you severely crippled parodies to people instead of proper potential colonists. So ignoring\banishing any person that has some kind of disability, that can affect your defensive power can result in a loss just due to insufficient workforce, or whats even worse - a lack of key skills (like cooking now. its better to have a pacifist, but a decent cook now, then have no pawn at all).
As for second point - also true, you can fast replace turrets, to get some more shots going their way, but in my experience, if the places where you install your turrets are lacking sandbags - they'll get blown up, potentially damaging other stuff and people. Plus on small and medium maps with the speed "miner" sappers annihilate your walls - you don't even have that much time to replace turrets.
So defending against sappers usually results in some cheap cheesy tactic, that feels even worse than boring killboxes - either through use of consumables (aforementioned insanity\shock lance, that disables the sapper forcing them to go into killbox or just launchers, that can pulverize half the raid in one lucky shot), or through abuse of their AI popping in and out for quick shots at the sapper, until he dies. Honestly it could use some improvement, like greatly extending the time it takes them to mine\explode through walls, so you have more time to think up some countermeasures, without having to have 5-tile wide outer walls.
Some thoughts jogged loose by reading other feedback:
- I really don't much mind food poisoning as is. It's annoying sure, but it's also pretty temporary, and seems to come on gradually enough; Usually my pawns are only down and out for half a day at most; Mind you, I'm not playing Rich Explorer or Naked Brutality, so the severity of half a day is probably worse on those, but I had a pawn downed for food poisoning on a solo caravan, and it was annoying but survivable.
- Masterwork crafts are definitely not impossible; I made a masterwork duster, on purpose only the other day, by taking advantage of an inspiration. Inspirations seem to come often enough that I can make use of them if I'm prepared to. The only issue I have with inspirations is when I get inspirations that are irrelevant, like shooting on a guy I didn't even give a gun. I think they should maybe be a bit more easy to come by, but then I don't have a close-to-20 level crafter, so I'm good with it as is.
- Graphics-wise, I overall like the changes. Some of the non-updated stuff looks positively drab in comparison. The research bench is a good example; You can barely see the stuff on the table. A gritty survival game doesn't have to be all shades of beige... Let's leave that color palette to Bethesda, shall we? (I kid!)
Something I'd really like to see is an update to the UI. grey boxes is functional, but it feels drab. I don't think we need something overly ornate and 'flavorful', just something a bit nicer than gray boxes. The layout of stuff on the screen could use a little work as well, with only one truly egregious candidate: The info box in the lower left corner. I constantly want to see that box, but it's always covered up by the rest of the UI. Change the placement of that, and I could more than live with the rest.
I would like just to tell that boars are a little bit smarter than pigs, so I don't understand why they are moved to Intermediate and pigs stay in Advanced Intelligence.
Maybe to fix an exploit I didn't know.
(Just for information, two generations are enough to transform a boar into a pig and inversely, so their stats should be roughly equals)
Dumb priority of repairing over building strikes again!
Raiders in drop pods right in the middle of my base and make a lot of holes in roof. Lots of gunfire, lots of damaged stuff, I win.
What my constructors do for next 3 days? They repair bullet holes everywhere. What is the problem with that? There are giant holes from drop pods in the roofs everywhere (during cold winter!) and my constructors ignore them. Good thing that I saw that and remembered about roof overlay to make manual fixing simpler. Repairing should really be shifted lower in priority list over construction and roof building or even be transfered/cloned to different work type (like basic).
not sure if a bug or intended: it used to be that if I told a pawn to "rest until healed", he would stay in bed until healed. Now every single time they get out of bed, and I have to repeat the process over and over again. Not the kind of micromanaging I would like to have.
Crashlanded, Cassandra extreme, permadeath, boreal forest.
So far, so good, i like most balance changes.
* ressources are scarcier, I like that smelting steel slag chunk is a real thing on boreal forest. Maybe could we smelt simple helmets or plate armors? whatabout disassembling power armors and flak vest/ pants?
* growing times: i've been caught off guard on this one, veggies have been clearly the limiting factor so far, where meat has been enough to feed my colonists and dozen of huskies, veggies where on the table only 1/3 of the year. Same for herbal, half the playthrough i was on herbal shortage. Hydroponics seem nerfed, but it's a good thing that solar flares no longer kill the crops in seconds. But it requires more planning which is good. No problem with wood in a boreal forest.
* biome: 4 years in it looks like day one
* ships: the limited raidius to poison ships makes it irrelevant if it crashes in a remote zone of the map. I've destroyed one, the next one fell in a corner of the map for two seasons now, i don't plan to touch it, i don't know if multiple poison ship could be a thing now, but it should since you can simply ignore remote poison ships.
* mechanoids: i like the split melee/ range for scythers. It offers new strategies, and they're rather weak. Centipedes are tough, but still slow af, so you can kite them or ambush them one by one with overwhelming fire power
* mood: i enjoy the new recreation system, with various sources and one mandatory joy hour per day i've had no big trouble to fulfill recreation. Parties have been severely nerfed. Psychic drone have been buffed and are really impactful.
* raids: the most significant aspects are split raids and the fight to death behavior. It makes a real difference in difficulty vs the 50% casualties threshold to flee. 4 years in raids are still brutal on my colony. Each colonist has its role and each loss is a setback. Raiders no longer the many assault weapons and charge rifle. Which means we've to craft our own.
* weapons: health points no longer change their stats? chain shotgun is a really good short range weapon, ideal to fight sappers indoors
* diplomatic system: really nice but it seems too easy to buy goodwill with gifts
* jobs: with the colony taking much damage and broken walls, it's nice to have the icon for autorebuild, but it would also be useful to split repair/construction to be able to rebuild asap after the raid without having to micro
* economy: i'm rather poor, i crashlanded into an area without friendly outlander faction nearby and one neutral tribal faction. I started making art relatively lately and only to improve the colony, i mostly bought neutroamine and components and crafted what i needed.
* animals: only a dozen of huskies here, i haven't noticed the difference regarding training decay
* quests: much better deals, good to be able to ask for an AI core
mood:
(https://imgur.com/YQMnCs1.jpg)
wealth:
(https://i.imgur.com/Pgsmeu5.jpg)
pop:
(https://i.imgur.com/xZDq9XJ.jpg)
Quote from: NeverPire on June 24, 2018, 08:59:08 AM
I would like just to tell that boars are a little bit smarter than pigs, so I don't understand why they are moved to Intermediate and pigs stay in Advanced Intelligence.
Maybe to fix an exploit I didn't know.
(Just for information, two generations are enough to transform a boar into a pig and inversely, so their stats should be roughly equals)
I think is kinda obvious but Tynan is trying to balance the game for gameplay purposes, not for real life simulation. He nerfed boars cause they were better than pigs since they did more damage and provided same meat and leather and everything else, pigs were redundant. Now he balanced it so that pigs are better for hauling and boars are better for combat.
6 components for lousy prosthetic parts? This is definitely too much. I think that 3 or 4 would be more reasonable.
Quote from: Mihsan on June 24, 2018, 09:00:34 AM
Dumb priority of repairing over building strikes again!
Raiders in drop pods right in the middle of my base and make a lot of holes in roof. Lots of gunfire, lots of damaged stuff, I win.
What my constructors do for next 3 days? They repair bullet holes everywhere. What is the problem with that? There are giant holes from drop pods in the roofs everywhere (during cold winter!) and my constructors ignore them. Good thing that I saw that and remembered about roof overlay to make manual fixing simpler. Repairing should really be shifted lower in priority list over construction and roof building or even be transfered/cloned to different work type (like basic).
Tynan... get us the "Repair job" back on the Work Tab... Why you don't do this?
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=35272.0
Lots of great improvements in this build.
I really like the new art, overall. The leather, logs and wind turbine are nice changes. Very crisp and detailed. Of course, now some of the older art looks kind of fuzzy in comparison. The trees, in particular, struck me that way. And as much as I love having the wild berry bushes, the perfect circles for the berries doesn't fit (IMO) with the rest of the aesthetic.
Love the simplified leathers!
The opportunistic hauling has been working pretty well and is a nice addition.
Also loving the new social thoughts. I've giggled at a few, though I can't remember them now. The pawns now joke about things, so it would be cool if they occasionally got a "heard a good joke" moodlet or "heard a bad joke" moodlet.
Did something change with regards to how far pawn will walk to sit and eat at a table? I have never had issues with storing meals in the freezer right next door to my dining room. Pawns would fetch a meal and sit down at the table to eat, no problem. But now I have to store meals in the dining room to get them to use the table.
Also, is building floors prioritized over everything but roofs? I want my constructors to work on flooring only when everything else is done because pretty much everything else is more important. Floors can be filler work between other construction tasks. Right now, I have to micro them to build a stove or a windmill or walls if there are any flooring blueprints in the area. Or, alternately, I have to micro forbidding and unforbidding flooring whenever I put down another blueprint. It may just be that the flooring covers a large area so it's closer to the pawn and gets selected, but it still seems like it should have a lower priority than most other things. (This isn't new to b18. The behavior is no different from previous builds.)
Thanks for all the hard work, Tynan! This game is one of my all-time favorites.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 01:05:36 PM
Seeing as another update is up
- Still hope that raiders being capable of self-tending will be brought back. It felt very right. It felt like they had brains... Until next update lobotomized them again.
Nope, raiders self healing is causing them to tend themselves in the open like sitting ducks. That is brain-less.
I just wanna point out how it's a good idea that "releasing prisoners" is put under basic. Saves your social experts for more important task.
While we're at it, could we also move re/installing furniture to basic to? There's no real need to have Constructors that's working on the new rooms just to move the bed away a few tiles.
ALSO repair should really be it's own task, and deconstruction should be a higher priority than construction.
As for self tend, either raiders should should hide behind cover, or you keep that for friendly pawns.
Speaking of friendly pawns, see, one of the tribal caravans had an unfortunate incident in meleeing a centipede. I was throwing my EMP grenades at them, but then everytime it hit the tribals they lose relations. The reason is obvious, but I think throwing EMP grenades should not count as hostile.
Restricting a job to a Colonist also has yet to show passions as well. There needs a "forbid after storing" option, especially for pemmican and survival meals because we need those for travel.
I don't know if this has been suggested already and sorry if this isn't the place to such things but it would be great if passive coolers could be forbidden so pawns don't refuel them constantly when they're not needed, it's a waste of wood for me honestly, wood in 1.0 isn't as easy to get as before.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 24, 2018, 10:40:13 AM
Nope, raiders self healing is causing them to tend themselves in the open like sitting ducks. That is brain-less.
Did they really? For me they started patching themselves up only when not engaged in combat. But i guess if thats so, it was removed due to being a potential exploit (attack, pull away, then reengage, when they started tending to themselves). Still i wish it be brought back with some fixes - like they stop tending if your colonists are too close\if they got shot at again.
Because while bandaging wounds in an open field under hail of bullets is stupid, so is getting a gaping wound from LMG or charge rifle in the chest, then just watching the red splatter, dying in couple hours, without a slight effort at survival\retreating.
Another change I am not sure of (intended, bug?):
Donning a parka now only seems to affect the low end of the comfortable temperature spectrum. Is that intended? If so, it seems odd. My pawns were able to keep wearing parkas through a heatwave with no worse effects than those in t-shirts.
Weird behavior, not sure if intended:
Double-clicking on a construction blueprint to multi-select them only selects exactly 80 of the blueprints, even if there are more. Tried carpet and wall blueprints.
edit: Ok, it does this for multi-selecting items as well. It would be nice to be able to multi-select all of them, for example, in the case of forbidding hundreds of carpet blueprints.
Training tab for animals show training decay intervals when you hover over that particular animal's wildness. Very useful!
I just noticed this earlier this morning, not sure how long it has been there or if it was just recently implemented but it's pretty cool imo. 8)
Also, seems once an animal is bonded training boosts to 100% no matter what lvl your animal handler is.
It took my colonist 17 days to tame a female polar bear at around 4.6% and she bonded with my colonist halfway through the training process. Normal training % chance went from 30% to 100%. At first I thought the success chance increase was influenced by the food used in training (kibble vs. raw meat) but tested it out with another polar bear that wasn't bonded and the training success chance stayed the same. Concluded that bonded animals currently train 100%, which is especially awesome for harder to train animals. Very much like!
Edit: Just got Inspired Creativity on my female colonist that has Artistic disabled. :-[
There is a global bug with pawns ignoring prioritized tasks. If you queue up anything with "prioritize", the pawn will abandon this and go back to its usual manual-ordered priority. This is most commonly observable with pawns ignoring "rest until healed", but can be seen with any chain of queued priority tasks. I can confirm they're not taking a break, they're directly switching away from priority tasks.
Animal AI is pretty buggy too, especially with caravans. I had a dromedary in a canceled caravan keep careening towards the edge of the map, even ignoring eligible zones. Even after I cancelled the caravan for absolutely everyone in the caravan, it kept ignoring zone and moved towards the edge.
This same animal died later in the run because, while awake, it ignored the fact that I zoned it into base/walls and stayed outside during a raid for 10 seconds. Then, once they starting shooting at it the AI chose to "flee"...slightly towards the gunfire.
The tame decay thing might be controversial but the above seem pretty uncontroversially bugged to me.
I love the changes in 1.0 so far but I've found a few weird things.
* If a doctor is preparing to add a prosthetic to a colonist you can't override that with another doctor. There is simply no "Tend to XX (reserved by YY)" available in the context menu.
* When opening a context menu with the right menu button on 3x speed the game starts lagging a lot. I think I saw this earlier in this thread as well but I couldn't find it now.
* Went for a "Incapacitated refugee" mission and found it amongst a few sleeping mechanoids. The colonist had braindamage so I simply repacked my caravan and noticed that I could select the refugee as a part of the caravan without having to bother the mechanoids. I haven't had any more "Incapacitaged refugee" missions after this so I haven't checked if this happens otherwise.
* Caravan animals stay in the spot they entered the map when returning home, not sure how this was handled earlier but they should really head for the caravan packing spot to be unloaded instead of the colonists crossing the map several times to do it.
Running version 1.0.1943 x64 (no mods)
Research is really off for flak to power armor progression. After getting flak accessed I noticed I can get to power armor faster than my crafter can make 1 or 2 sets of flak.
Quote from: Aerial on June 24, 2018, 11:13:36 AM
Donning a parka now only seems to affect the low end of the comfortable temperature spectrum. Is that intended? If so, it seems odd. My pawns were able to keep wearing parkas through a heatwave with no worse effects than those in t-shirts.
Clothing has always been a sort of a week spot for me, even well done parkas shouldn't act like some goddamn space suit capable of sustaining -40°C. Duster are my favorite, though they act like some sort of catchall as well. All in all though they seem to have been balanced a bit.
Quote from: ashaffee on June 24, 2018, 01:54:33 PM
Research is really off for flak to power armor progression. After getting flak accessed I noticed I can get to power armor faster than my crafter can make 1 or 2 sets of flak.
Aren't you talking about plate armor? Power amor is way up the end of the tree.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 24, 2018, 01:40:52 PM
There is a global bug with pawns ignoring prioritized tasks. If you queue up anything with "prioritize", the pawn will abandon this and go back to its usual manual-ordered priority. This is most commonly observable with pawns ignoring "rest until healed", but can be seen with any chain of queued priority tasks. I can confirm they're not taking a break, they're directly switching away from priority tasks.
Are you sure, I do pretty frequent uses of queued actions and haven't had any problems with them, might be just the rest thing. Besides, if you want pawns to prioritize resting, why don't just tick it in the work tab priority?
Quote from: fritzgryphon on June 24, 2018, 11:53:46 AM
Double-clicking on a construction blueprint to multi-select them only selects exactly 80 of the blueprints, even if there are more. Tried carpet and wall blueprints.
Might be a limitation, but you could just as well use forbid/unforbid tool.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 24, 2018, 09:50:48 AM
Quote from: NeverPire on June 24, 2018, 08:59:08 AM
I would like just to tell that boars are a little bit smarter than pigs, so I don't understand why they are moved to Intermediate and pigs stay in Advanced Intelligence.
Maybe to fix an exploit I didn't know.
I think is kinda obvious but Tynan is trying to balance the game for gameplay purposes, not for real life simulation. He nerfed boars cause they were better than pigs since they did more damage and provided same meat and leather and everything else, pigs were redundant. Now he balanced it so that pigs are better for hauling and boars are better for combat.
It makes a lot of sense though, pigs have been domesticated for generations while boars are wild pigs.
My Rough/Tropical animal testing run is bugged, so I've started a new run: Tribal on Temperate Forest (30/60 growing days) told by Cassandra Intense. I figured since animal swarms are still very strong in favorable conditions, I would see how they do in middling/unfavorable conditions.
So far I've gotten very lucky on both animal handlers and fertile soil. I have good stockpiles of pemmican, rice, and some hay and kibble, and I have a solid squad of 15 or so animals, with alpacas still forming the backbone. Both potentially threatening raids were dispatched with no significant injuries to colonists.
The first winter is just about to start, and there is toxic fallout that has already lasted for 4 days. My bonded warg is starving, and I'm torn between slaughtering my other animals to feed it, or just putting it to sleep. I think I'll crack open the ancient danger first and see what comes out.
EDIT: There were mechanoids. Three scythers and two centipedes. I was prepared to barge in and swarm, but I needed to lure them out and swarm. Everybody died.
Possible bug, alpacas don't unpack on caravan return, and still contain items that were sold during the caravan.
Sent caravan with alpacas to trade. I sold/gifted all the cotton, devilstrand, etc to the destination settlement.
After returning to home settlement, I noticed that the alpaca's were still wearing their saddlebags. In their gear tab, they still had all the items that I had just sold. Plus, I'm pretty sure I also had the silver I had gotten from their sale.
The settlers returning from the caravan did not contain any cargo in their gear tab. I'm pretty sure I heard the silver-drop sound effect when they returned, so I think they did empty their pockets.
The caravan -may- have returned at night, not sure. Like in the change log, caravans will now move at night if they are close to their destination.
edit: The alpaca's were also carrying the components that I had bought.
edit2: The chemfuel I sold was not in the alpaca's inventory when they returned, but the cotton and some of the devilstrand was. I'll try to replicate this.
edit 3: Couldn't replicate with a nearly identical caravan, must be crazy. I do have this pic of an alpaca that wasn't unloaded on return. This was on the night of the day after the caravan returned.
(https://i.imgur.com/4WgbAwB.png)
According to the information provided, raiders bandage themselves when they are wounded and hide behind cover. Yoshida Kenji's first raider was tending during the fight which looked glitchy, but the AI just assumed that they are hiding behind a cover which is usually focused against a certain enemy pawn.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 11:04:25 PM
1531 hour played in RW... yeah. If I am still a noob after that, maybe i should just retire.
That was a misquote, my b. But yes, I was talking about you. The situation you explained was blatantly impossible unless your wealth is whack. Not trying to rude, but please don't make up scenarios like that in an attempt to get something nerfed. I was just saying that situation you explained would never occur in the real game, even in 1.0 every engagement feels "fair" especially when you factor in AI.
And time logged is irrelevant based on what you said, so if someone with very few hours can survive fine on expert but you, with over 1500 can't, it's a you problem, not the game
Edit: I know the "man up and fight" advice was bad, my point is the situation you explained is impossible and even without a killbox you can handle pretty much any fight that game throws at you with minimal injuries just by being smart with pawn placement.
Quote from: Zoolder on June 24, 2018, 04:28:07 PM
That was a misquote, my b. But yes, I was talking about you. The situation you explained was blatantly impossible unless your wealth is whack. Not trying to rude, but please don't make up scenarios like that in an attempt to get something nerfed. I was just saying that situation you explained would never occur in the real game, even in 1.0 every engagement feels "fair" especially when you factor in AI.
And time logged is irrelevant based on what you said, so if someone with very few hours can survive fine on expert but you, with over 1500 can't, it's a you problem, not the game
Edit: I know the "man up and fight" advice was bad, my point is the situation you explained is impossible and even without a killbox you can handle pretty much any fight that game throws at you with minimal injuries just by being smart with pawn placement.
Impossible, eh? If i feel that something is unbalanced, overpowered or otherwise feels off - i'll suggest changing it. I make such statements after playing, based on my experience, not thinking up some horror stories just to get what i want. So, If you like some changes and don't want to see them reverted - voice your opinion, say it feels right and you welcome it. Don't go assuming things on your own, as i didn't happen to notice you watch me playing to make such assumptions. Unless you worked on this game as a dev and can be sure before claiming something is impossible.
I won't even start about every single fight being beatable with zero casualties without killbox or some other cheap AI exploiting tricks, like pop-in-out or trapped hallways. If you think that way - i doubt we have something else to discuss. To each their own.
If you mine though a smoothed wall, your character will directly try to repair it.
I tried removing my character from Construction but another directly ran up instead to repair the wall and the dedicated miner went to do something else, lol.
Been playing the unstable version and Rimworld as a whole for quite some time. A couple of humble thoughts and wishlist items.
Just for context purposes, I am a 50yo casual gamer who primarily uses my mouse (never got into hotkeys and can't hope to have the game knowledge I am seeing elsewhere in this post so forgive me if these are previously addressed suggestions. I tried to read thru many of the other posts first.
- Many times when an AI message pops up and gives me the option to click "OK" or "Jump to Location", I will instinctively click OK both because I am agreeing that I want to do something about it and because I am used to the bottom choice being the dismiss/close option in such windows. It would make more sense to me if the top option was "Jump to Location" and the bottom was "Dismiss". It is annoying to hit Ok and then realize you don't know where to look for the event on the map or the message text that has now gone away.
- Liked the old, distinctive look of silver. New large silver pile looks like an extracted molar to me.
- This comment refers to the 6 tabs (character, health, gear, etc for each character). Since I primarily use my mouse, it would be great if each of these tabs had the character name shown on top like the "character" tab does already and there were forward/back arrows on either side of the pawn name so that I could easily browse thru the stats for each character without either having to remember a hotkey or look and click on each character profile at the top of the page and then have to look back down to see the new stats. It would also work if when your mouse pointer was inside one of these tabs if the scroll wheel went thru all your characters.
- I will click on a research item to review it, double-click and assume it is selected because it is lit up and the research button I need to press isn't even in my field of view and then I exit only to lose valuable research time before figuring out what I did wrong.
- I can see food poisoning making a colonist bed-ridden but having two separate pawns collapse in the field far from home on separate occasions? Please no.
- When I tried to tell my researcher to research I received a "research is a long-term item" message which I didn't understand for some time until I realized that it just couldn't be forced but would still happen. If text could be a bit clearer on this. Maybe something like "Research will occur automatically once selected and a pawn is assigned under the work tab; however, it cannot be forced".
- During combat, I really want to start using the stats where you highlight your shooter and then mouse over the enemy. However, it is not clear if I am looking at the chance of hitting him or me from him. Is that his cover stat or mine from his position? Confusing text for me.
- If you can create two separate but adjacent growing zones without having them join up automatically for the life of me I don't know how.
- In the work tab wasn't it previously possible to decide who should negotiate for you? A social column maybe? Am I just missing something now?
- When I want to create a new area and go to the associated screen, I click on "new area". Unless I remembered to look at the list first and take mental roll call I have no idea what was created. For example if the list already had an Area 1, did I just create Area 2 or a new Area 1 and make Area 1 into Area 2. Highlighting the new area maybe with a bit of a flashing would clear up which one is brand new for renaming, for instance.
This is now, by far, my favorite game and topping my RCT or Alpha Centauri playing time is no small feat. thx!!!
Quote from: flightgamer on June 24, 2018, 05:43:45 PM
- Many times when an AI message pops up and gives me the option to click "OK" or "Jump to Location", I will instinctively click OK both because I am agreeing that I want to do something about it and because I am used to the bottom choice being the dismiss/close option in such windows. It would make more sense to me if the top option was "Jump to Location" and the bottom was "Dismiss". It is annoying to hit Ok and then realize you don't know where to look for the event on the map or the message text that has now gone away.
You can now click on the History tab then Messages. From there you can view old letters and messages that you might have missed in greater detail. ^.^
Quote from: flightgamer on June 24, 2018, 05:43:45 PM
- If you can create two separate but adjacent growing zones without having them join up automatically for the life of me I don't know how.
The merging of zones only happens if the first one has been selected, is "glowing" or lighted. Then the game assumes you are extending that active zone. There is also a new button choice when a specific zone is chosen, to deliberately extend that zone, growing or area or storage, etc.
If you deselect a zone (for example, by clicking elsewhere on the screen), or close the growing zone placer and then reactivate it, you can place two or more zones next to each other.
Quote from: Golden on June 24, 2018, 06:56:48 PM
The merging of zones only happens if the first one has been selected, is "glowing" or lighted.
That's not exactly true. If you start a new grow zone and have it overlap an existing one before you've properly created the new zone, it'll assume you're extending more often than not.
My strategy is to start a new zone that doesn't touch the existing zone, then expand it to the edge of the existing zone. I do the same thing when I create smaller stockpiles touching larger, like if I want to put a certain type of resource in a specific location, like human meat in my freezer; I did this when I had a warg so it could go to that spot, but not take everything else in the freezer. Worked well.
Anyone else experience a hoard of events such as this? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1421683077
I'm playing on latest unstable version, CC Rough NB. My events have seemed pretty normal, usually 2-3 events on a given day, until around the 14th of Decembary.
Here's a shot of the graph on my current save: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1421687294
Currently at 13k wealth. I was around the same wealth on another save, around the same time in game as well but never got this many events on that save.
On a side note: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1421683153
At first I thought she was male with a name like Mike and that hairstyle. I check the character tab and her full name is Michael "Mike" Hunt. lol.
Some feedback:
As a player who usually uses mods playing vanilla feels pretty good, the only thing that doesn't seem to be working is the better hauling, I feel the mod in B18 was more effective.
I did my first caravan! It was 12 t-shirts for a legendary smg, silver table, and a decent bowler. Of course I got raided after I got back, the guy with the smg got downed, and I think the raiders stole it? That is just plain mean haha.
First-time poster. Funny glitch that is now more noticeable with deciduous trees changing color in the fall. If you get a cold snap that drops temps sufficiently, all the foliage drops and you have barren trees. But if the cold snap ends, and you're still in the fall, suddenly the trees regain all their yellow and orange colors. Perhaps there's a way for the game to calculate how many days are left in the season during a cold snap so that once leaves drop past the start of fall, they don't re-emerge until the spring?
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 01:04:32 AM
Quote from: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 12:59:09 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:47:21 AM
The mechs' death on downed behavior is implemented in Pawn_HealthTracker.CheckForStateChange().
Thanks for the feedback everyone! Please keep it coming.
Thanks for replying and looking into it, it's appreciated. Sure, but it's also the ability to operate them and shut them down that's removed. Of course that can also be modded back. But like I said to Nightingale, reimplementing things that were already there made me wonder why they were removed in the first place, hence my feedback.
It was removed because it was just busywork to have to shut them down. Taking their guns was removed because it was a massive free money fountain at the exact time in the game (late game) when money was already overbalanced. Scyther blade was removed for related reasons to above and because it created a bug that was nearly unsolvable without serious changes to how our health system works: It reduced Manipulation ability, which also made the pawn bad at fighting in melee. The system doesn't suppose distinguishing manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-melee and manipulation-for-the-purpose-of-work, so the system was unable to express what scyther blades really meant. It was always bugged for this reason. I decided I'd rather cut it and add other stuff that fit in cleanly.
Apologies for the spam quotes; I'll figure out how to remove them sometime..
Anyway, my points are:
Centipede insta-death = good (shutdown was a PITA) unless deterioration (affecting mech corpses) remains a thing: pawns need those resources!
Scyther insta-seath/not dropping weps: OK, but (following on from your other posts) it may be an option to retreive & then /equip/ a scyther blade (rather than 'install' via surgury) as a clumsy (but high dmg) melee wep, or deconstruct it for adv components with a (v low) %age chance? Sale money could be reduced to 50% -> 25% of its B18 value (or somesuch), reducing that OP cash dispenser you mentioned
Likewise centipede deconstruction could have a (low, naturally) chance to drop adv components depending upon deterioration (reintroduce shutdown to reduce deterioration? That may make sense..)
I played a few starts with and without a river to compare how much the watermill helps and I think it still is really strong.
The main reason is the constant power output for no ongoing costs. Especially since batteries need to be researched now. It's a bit weird that the watermill can be built without research, but solar generators need one and need batteries to have constant power. It would feel better when solar and wind are available at the start (both not constant power supply for no ongoing cost) and the water needs research. (I know it's not really realistic that way, but balancing should be more important than realism.)
Also the watermill can be built on bridges, that means one can even build more. I don't know it this is intended, but maybe they should be heavy structures.
QuoteAre you sure, I do pretty frequent uses of queued actions and haven't had any problems with them, might be just the rest thing. Besides, if you want pawns to prioritize resting, why don't just tick it in the work tab priority?
100% certain. I have video footage of it. Pathing is buggy too, sometimes pawns are allowed to pass beside/through pawns in only one direction, leading to unanticipated outcomes that make no sense.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 23, 2018, 01:05:36 PM
- Still hope food poisoning stops knocking people out. They don't eat pesticides to get incapacitated, even if bad food gives you stomach pains, diarrhea, gut worms and some other nasty stuff, it doesn't make you KO, while raiders burn your house. You shit yourself, grit your teeth and fight. I liked it when it was frequent but less severe.
- Also I'll still be nagging about item quality - masterwork and legendary shouldn't be quests only. Sure it does add more incentive to go and try some quests. But if in earlier version you could incredibly slowly but reliably make masterwork or legendary beds for your guys for example. In this version max you can hope for is excellent even lategame with a god-like builder. And with quests you never really can get what you really want, only what random gives after you fight 10 people armed to the teeth with your 3 hobos.
Overall - great update. Centipede armor nerf and scyther buff was badly required good stuff. Melee-shot thingy was removed - another great decision, since it all but disabled any use melee in the game had. I really like how melee was a high risk, high reward thing, with you disabling and putting at a disadvantage otherwise technologically superior enemies.
Hmm..
WRT food poisoning, I've personally (unfortunately) experienced the extremes both ways IRL bar hospitalisation. Severe FP can make you unable to do anything except crawling to bed & then flopping there for a couple of days with frequent loo trips if you can make it that far (even 15 feet!): it's /extremely/ debilitating.. altho shouldn't happen in the middle of a battle IMO! Mild FP makes vomit & diahorrea likely but can be alleviated with plenty of hydration within a day or so & doesn't incapacitate (altho work rate will be slowed considerably). Extreme food poisoning may well kill due to related effects (usually dehydration, altho other effects also play a part). Meds will reduce duration but not stop the effect instantly
Food poisoning from berries makes a certain amount of sense: mild FP can be gained from eating unripe and/or uncooked veggies/fruit (or spoiled/raw meat ofc); extreme FP may be from gathering the wrong 'food' (the classic example is mistaking hemlock (deadly nightshade) berries for blackcurrants, along with mushroom misidentification) - incidentally why are briars/brambles/blackberries in-game description plant types but not listed as a (berry) food source? Rasberry canes grow naturally on the edge of woodlands (slightly shaded), while briars/brambles/blackberries grow almost anywhere..
WRT masterwork quality: I feel that this should be attainable by master crafters (L15+?) at a low %age; however, legendary quality shouldn't be attainable unless inspired. The RL parallel is that the apprentice/journeyman creates a 'master work' to prove to their master that they are capable of creating <things> independantly of their master, freeing them from implicit bondage & allowing them to become a free worker, to live on their own merits
WRT 'melee shoot', perhaps a limiter could be introduced? So pawns equipped with rifles won't opportunistically shoot 'enemies' if 'melee attack' button is explicitly activated? That would seem to be a reasonable compromise: a rifle-equipped pawn explicitly set to melee won't shoot the friendly they're trying to arrest, while still being able to shoot active hostiles within range..?
Quote from: flightgamer on June 24, 2018, 05:43:45 PM
- During combat, I really want to start using the stats where you highlight your shooter and then mouse over the enemy. However, it is not clear if I am looking at the chance of hitting him or me from him. Is that his cover stat or mine from his position? Confusing text for me.
It is. If your colonist is selected, the mouse shows his chance to hit a live target after deductions are made. If you select an enemy the mouse shows their chance to do the same.
I haven't read the last 3 pages so I apologise if someone's mentioned this in detail before.
Predators seem a bit broken at the moment, the slightest injury leads to infection leads to death quickly. Predators always get injuries from their prey (Bites/scratches) and seem to always die, I'm barely 22 days into a colony and most of the predators on the map are dead to this already except the ones that steal from my food stock on occasion. I'd propose that predators that have the ability to get infections have them disabled, until(if) they are tamed by the colony or traders etc. Its not going to intrude on game-play, it would likely make predators an actual threat again which is a good thing.
Love all the new art by the way! finally getting a chance to see some of it, especially that chemfuel refinery is amazing looking.
I've started a new animal swarm run. Tribal, Boreal Forest (30/60 growing days) told by Cassandra Intense. This time there are no alpacas! I am devastated. How can I train an Alpaca Strike Force without Alpacas?!
I've just survived the first winter and my new rice crop is about to come in. I have 27 animals, even split of muffalos and boars+random. Since the muffalos can't be trained for release anymore, it's more of a... Mob... than a Strike Force. The best configuration I've found is to have the muffalos follow my melee colonists' charge, and then pull the colonists back from raiders with melee weapons. With this, combat is interesting again. I still win fights convincingly, but my colonists take some real injuries. There were two threatening sieges. I had to charge one across an open field, and that was bloody (one downed colonist, 3-4 dead animals). For the other I hid behind a wall while they built two mortars, then charged with most of the distance already closed. That was an easier fight.
Food was a little touch-and-go by the end of winter. I had stockpiled several thousand pemmican/kibble/hay/etcetera, but muffalos eat sooo much. Luckily, I could let the boars munch on raider corpses, and there were plenty of herding animals. I had to feed some packaged survival meals to starving muffalos, but I have not had to slaughter any animals. I did get some event notifications of lapsed training. One per animal every 7.5 -10 days means a non-trivial chunk of a trainer's time must be maintenance. But that seems fine. Once I have food again, I'll still be able to expand the Mob. I'll just have to grow a much bigger plot of haygrass this year.
(Side note: I've produced two masterwork items from random constructing - a pigskin chair and a wooden bed. The constructor was level 10ish, I think. No inspiration involved.)
I also agree that watermills are a bit too overpowered. I really haven't built any batteries, solar panels, or wind turbines since their release. I think a good balance would create a force distance between each one. As it stands now I can just build like 10 of these across the river and on top of the river with bridges and never have power problems.
Later on when I am using more turrets maybe I'll throw in a couple wind turbines that flick a switch into a few batteries then disconnect the batteries from the grid so I never get zztt incidencies. But I could probably just expand my base over the river more and build more watermills instead.
If they gave a power output of 1450 but had a forced min distance of 5-10 tiles that would mean you could power a sun lamp with two of them and use third for normal stuff and fitting 30 tiles of river in your base isnt un reasonable.
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on June 24, 2018, 11:26:49 PM
I've started a new animal swarm run. Tribal, Boreal Forest (30/60 growing days) told by Cassandra Intense. This time there are no alpacas! I am devastated. How can I train an Alpaca Strike Force without Alpacas?!
Alpaca Strike Force sounds more cute than threatening. Muffalo mob on the other hand... I love the idea of animal strike forces but unfortunately I could never grow one as large as the ones you raise. My favorite biome happens to be tundra and the most animals I was able to keep fed on that biome was around 10. A couple of muffalos, alpacas (mainly for caravan) and 6 polar bears. You should post a screenshot of your Muffalo mob when you have time, I'd like to see it. :)
I was curious about the new "Wild Man" event when I read about it in the notes.
Finally got my first encounter 68 days into this new save!
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198059850157/screenshots/
Although the message said "Wild man wanders in", she's a little lady just 15 years old. Said she has a 10% chance to attack upon failed attempts but since she's incapable of violence, why not? Plus, she's butt naked with just her fists. I think Kent should be okay. I could really use a researcher since none of my other colonists have passion for it.
Edit: Failed to "tame" her for several days. Decided to arrest her instead since she was hurting herself by hunting rabbits for food.
Recreation tolerance seems broken. Before I built a Horseshoes Pin, Social tolerance reached 99% and colonists would just eternally socialize. Now that I've built the Horseshoes, both tolerances are hovering at 80%. I think I'll have to build a Chess Table just to make recreation effective again.
New build is going up! Various further rebalancings and changes. Your existing watermills will be repositioned and stop working - sorry.
Raw change log:
----
Watermill generator requires a 5-wide line of moving water instead of 3-wide.
Fix: Def direction of watermill generator is reversed.
Corrected nutrient paste dispenser def direction and cleaned up some of the art.
Watermill size (4,5) -> (5,6). Including art upscale.
Reordered skills and defined the order in defs so mods can insert skills anywhere.
Fix: Packaged survival meal now has no research prerequisite.
Rename skill: "growing" -> "plants".
Reduced soaking wet thought impact 10 -> 6. Adjusted text to hint about bridges.
Minor trait commonality adjustments.
Add hediff debug command now shows all HediffDefs on the first page.
Reduced food poisoning impact to no longer down the pawn, but rather slow him and put him in pain.
Fix 3458: Damaged graphic for side-rotated 1x2 table is offset from the table graphic
Humans can now drop their terrain-source filth several times.
Added trash as a variant of human filth.
Change difficulty labels to the traditional ones.
Rearranged construction work priorities. Repair is below construct, and other changes.
Crashlanded scenario now starts with 10 wake-up.
Adjust GiveUpExit mental break text.
Gift silver for one goodwill 20 -> 25.
Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research.
Adjusted multi-analyzer art match other table types in style (i.e. tabletop fills cells).
Mining against constructed structures is now much slower than mining against natural walls. This will slow down sappers and insects when they're digging through your defenses.
Remove construction skill requirement for passive cooler.
Allow opportunistic haul for pawns with hauling work disabled. Loosed up distance limits on opportunistic hauling. Refactor opportunistic haul tunings into new AITuning class.
Rename some classes Tunings -> Tuning
Reduce max world feature text size. When there are giant oceans it was making insanely huge text that Z-fights. Slightly reduced mid-tier feature size as well.
Minor rebalances to trade requests.
Fix: Unnecessary decimals on money amounts in trade request letter.
Debuff trade quest rewards 200%~300% -> 180%~260%.
Buff sandbags 60%->65% coverage.
Clarify skill descriptions.
Marble now has +1 beauty offset. So marble walls have 1 beauty. It's still the weakest stone type.
Increase theshold for bionic uneasiness from 2 parts to 3 parts.
A lot of this looks fantastic...I'll do my best to keep up mid week but time is of course more constrained!
I have to say, the raider AI puts up a bit more of a fight. I've adjusted accordingly, but error margin is a bit less.
Great changes! Especially the change with the passive cooler. No more dying to random heat waves because your solo colonist doesn't have high construction!
I found this bug just before the new build got put up, but it looks like a colonist's equipped Revolver just disappeared. I think swapping rapidly back & forth between equipping a Wood Log caused it.
QuoteNutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research.
Finally tribals can impress offworlders with their scientific knowledge of constructing nutrient paste dispensers. You may want to revert this one.
Quote from: FrozenSnowFox on June 25, 2018, 02:14:43 AM
QuoteNutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research.
Finally tribals can impress offworlders with their scientific knowledge of constructing nutrient paste dispensers. You may want to revert this one.
Hahaha, should be required to at least have Electricity researched to use it :P.
Nutrient Paste Dispenser requires no research?
Looks like goop is back on the menu, boys!
As an aside: this is (and has been) an incredible process to watch unfold.
Quote from: MikeLemmer on June 25, 2018, 01:13:15 AM
Recreation tolerance seems broken. Before I built a Horseshoes Pin, Social tolerance reached 99% and colonists would just eternally socialize. Now that I've built the Horseshoes, both tolerances are hovering at 80%. I think I'll have to build a Chess Table just to make recreation effective again.
This sounds exactly correct.
The more sources you have, the more variance the colonists get, the less they'll build up tolerance, the less joy time they need.
You should build a chess table.
Suggestion: Ocean water should be a valid area for a watermill. Wave motion can power generator just as easily as river flow.
This one is rather old, but since mood has to be managed slightly tighter in 1.0 (drones, parties, fine meals etc...), the colonist died and banished to death mood debuffs could be somewhat scaled to time spent in the colony.
It's -6 for 3 days for the whole colony simply because a guy who instantly joined during a rescue mission died seconds later. Could be -3 for "rookie colonist died" or something, based on time spent as colonist.
Also still talking advantage of the records, the debuff or flavour of the description could take into account the total kills for storytelling, like "we've just lost our best fighter (52 kills), we're in trouble" or other records. I always enjoy reading the records of my colonists and thinks their storytelling potential could be exploited further.
- Like the food poison change. Mood and pain penalties are harsh, but fair, since you feel like crap if you managed to eat something... wrong. I'll mod it to be treatable for my run though. I'd like to have a way to shorten it a bit with power of medicine.
- Glad to see enemy miners slowed down. It was real strange to see them work better than grenades.
- I actually like the recreation changes, as in previous betas it wasn't really a major change, going from horseshoes and chess tables to television, poker and billiards. I kind of wish that there was some more activities and facilities for recreation. Though that one s easily fixed by mods.
One question:
Didn't quite make it to bionics yet in 1.0, whats the deal with "bionic uneasiness"? They now get whiny, when you replace lost limbs with scientific miracles? I get the idea, when body purists and prosthetic haters complain - yeah, fine, but normal people should welcome being non-crippled again?
Why a nerf to already rare and expensive thing, you can't get for just anyone? With the amount of limbs and organs sent flying by gunfire, i can't fathom, why would you make that change. Player wastes astronomical amounts of money\crafting materials\crafter's labor time, only to get one more pissy colonist prone to minor\major breaks?
Only thing that comes to mind - its to counter people making bionic terminators out of their colonists. I don't think thats a problem to be fixed, but fine, ok, make them complain only in cases where it was a healthy body part that was replaced then.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 25, 2018, 04:25:13 AM
normal people should welcome being non-crippled again?
They do welcome being non-crippled; what they don't welcome is turning into an inhuman freak to accomplish that.
Also, many of the implants have nothing to do with curing being crippled.
It only happens if you've got 3 or more artificial parts.
Transhumanist uneasiness with 'loss of humanity' is a common part of many stories. See Deus Ex: HR for one example.
The cannibal trait might be too common now.
Quote from: Polder on June 25, 2018, 04:51:09 AM
The cannibal trait might be too common now.
I didn't touch it since B18; sample size. (In fact it'll be less common since a few others were tuned up).
Maybe you should add a limit in how much you can buy goodwill with silver and trade. For example, with silver you could buy up to 70 and with trade up to 80, and would have to get the last one with quests.
Have you considered joining plant cut and growing? Putting plant cut after growing.
Some more feedback from me while playing:
-The need to re-taim animals fees nice. Although I only had a few animals.
"Change difficulty labels to the traditional ones."
- I see the reason behind it, but it looks really boring now and the old names really gave Rimwold difficulties a unique touch. Maybe just add traditional names in the tooltip.
"Rearranged construction work priorities. Repair is below construct, and other changes."
- Thanks for this, it was really needed.
"Crashlanded scenario now starts with 10 wake-up."
- It makes the start a lot easier and I think it wasn't really needed. It would help new players, but for new people who don't know how addiction tolerances work, it really gives the danger of an addiction and the potentional to fuck up their game with withdrawl and mental breaks.
"Adjusted multi-analyzer art match other table types in style (i.e. tabletop fills cells)."
- It's weird in general that the tabletop fills the cells. Logically it would be the table foot area that fills the cells. (See screenshot attached)
"Allow opportunistic haul for pawns with hauling work disabled."
- I don't see the logic behind this. These pawns don't haul, so why do they suddenly haul when going somewhere else. Also can be abused to let them haul everything with a lot of placing stockpiles. (It's a lot micro and imo noth worth it, but in special situations it might make a huge difference.)
- The rearranges skill order is weird, mainly because we are really accustomed to the old. But I think having medical and social near fighting was a good logical order. My ideas:
1: Shooting, Melee, Medical, Social, Animals, Plants, Cooking, Crafting, Artistic, Construction, Mining, Intellectual (An order of more similar skills being next to each other. Like Social and Animal, Cooking and Crafting)
2: Shooting, Melee, Medical, Social, Animal, Cooking, Construction, Plants, Mining, Crafting, Artistic, Intellectual (Order of work priorities to keep that in the same style.)
(If you don't want to change this, it would be nice to hear your reasoning / logical order behind the new skill order.)
- I played a few naked survival extreme games and it was a nice challenge so far. Sure a few totally random things can end the game, but I see that as a part of this.
- Colonists regulary wander in water when doing recreation stuff like walking around or cloudwatching. I also let corpses lying around far away and the colonist walked all the way there during recreation also over the river. Result was full recration and -19 mood which was really dumb.
Otherwise I like a lot of the changes. Especially mood debuffs for turning common colonists into cyborgs and the new recreation system. It feels good to now need more diversity.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I can't load the game, screen just turns all black and then I return to my Steam account.
I agree with using the older names for difficulty. It loses flavour and signatureness for a bit of accessibility that I personally think that's not worth it.
Also ultratech back to glitterworld meds please. Glitterworld, it's super unique. Ultratech, not so much.
Can I request a tool to allow me to mine an entire node? Or make steel easier to see? As is, I'm having to dev-mode it to mine full nodes and, frankly, steel is way harder to see than it needs to be (especially around granite and sandstone at least for me. I have the same problem with Uranium and Marble.)
I've gotten to bionics in my play through. I respect the -mood for too many attachments. I can easily see getting everyone super human like in a sort time. Now I have to proactively save this to compliment their skills and save spots for injuries.
I would really like some bionic to cure frail. Since the other complimenting old age trait is bad back and can be fixed.
The wake up early on for the crash landing is a great idea. Since it is suppose to be a easier training scenario. This teaches people the huge worth they have for many things and addiction can be managed. For my first 300 hours I just sold all my drugs. But go go juice and wake up is critical for some extreme scenarios and I believe it is what people are lacking when they complain it is too difficult for certain carvan missions.
Seems like you've cured 90% of the communities problems. I bet your to do list for a full release is almost here 😀. There really isn't much to cry about now. Just unique things people prefer that mods can deal with.
I noticed moving furniture is now under basic, though the tooltip doesn't say it.
Really appreciate that, Tynan!
Quote from: Tynan on June 25, 2018, 04:41:26 AM
They do welcome being non-crippled; what they don't welcome is turning into an inhuman freak to accomplish that.
Also, many of the implants have nothing to do with curing being crippled.
It only happens if you've got 3 or more artificial parts.
Transhumanist uneasiness with 'loss of humanity' is a common part of many stories. See Deus Ex: HR for one example.
Oh, Deus Ex. "I didn't ask for this." I kind of hate how moping Jensen is, so I hoped things like that won't make an appearance. Now you can get your bionic superdoctor, but at the cost of him being either all whiny, or a cocaine addict. Oh, well. Yayo it is then, followed by exile, once chemical damage settles in.
Quote from: ashaffee on June 25, 2018, 08:24:38 AM
The wake up early on for the crash landing is a great idea. Since it is suppose to be a easier training scenario. This teaches people the huge worth they have for many things and addiction can be managed. For my first 300 hours I just sold all my drugs. But go go juice and wake up is critical for some extreme scenarios and I believe it is what people are lacking when they complain it is too difficult for certain carvan missions.
As someone who sets everyone to 'no drugs', and deletes the other policies at the start of every game, I'm mostly indifferent to this wake-up.
I'll just add "Burn Wake-Up" to the list of drug stuff I do at the start of the game.
I found a few problems with work priorities (unless it's intended).
- Pawn with multiple bleeding wounds are getting tended from a medic and stand up (which cancels tending) to go and pick up a meal to their inventory.
- Medic with medic work priority set to 1 prefers eating or recreation instead of tending bleeding pawns (even that their needs aren't empty, just at the edge to the first (smaller) mood debuff)
- Door cheese of melee raids works too good: 1 enemy is fighting 1 or 2 are igniting or destroying something and 10 stand around doing nothing.
I can provide more information if you need.
1.0 seems to have changed animal vision range for food. In the winter, this lets every squirrel, rat, and muffalo beeline across the map, through player defenses, and attempt to eat simple meals.
On reflection I'm thinking this is probably not ideal. While it can be a mild nuisance in some situations, you can just shut the door for those. In the vast majority of cases, animals congregating into base to this extent makes it open season on very time-efficient draft hunting, complete with access to doors and pathing manipulation to make the odd revenge less threatening.
I've never thought of leaving food in an open area.
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 25, 2018, 10:37:07 AM
I've never thought of leaving food in an open area.
You don't have to, they will target it as long as they have a valid path through open doors, doesn't seem to matter how many doors.
This can of course even be used to "bait" them into freezer since the only time this manifests is winter (herbivores don't have grass to eat).
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 10:32:25 AM
1.0 seems to have changed animal vision range for food. In the winter, this lets every squirrel, rat, and muffalo beeline across the map, through player defenses, and attempt to eat simple meals.
On reflection I'm thinking this is probably not ideal. While it can be a mild nuisance in some situations, you can just shut the door for those. In the vast majority of cases, animals congregating into base to this extent makes it open season on very time-efficient draft hunting, complete with access to doors and pathing manipulation to make the odd revenge less threatening.
Had a raider destroy my fridge the other day. There's about 9 rats and several squirrels getting into my food inside my base. I think you're right how players may take advantage cause the thought came across my mind when it happened. At the same time, it's kind of funny to see and appreciate so I hope it doesn't get removed.
EDIT:
---------------------------------
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 10:32:25 AM
You don't have to, they will target it as long as they have a valid path through open doors, doesn't seem to matter how many doors.
Didn't know it went that far. Yeah, they probably gonna do something about that. lol
You know how during raids, the player has their colonists set up for battle, but then you realise that the raiders/mechanoids are taking too long, and you undraft them, they try to eat their food, but then you draft them again, and you have a bunch of simple meals lying around your bunker?
Would it be possible for the colonist to just ... put em' back in their inventory?
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 11:07:01 AM
You know how during raids, the player has their colonists set up for battle, but then you realise that the raiders/mechanoids are taking too long, and you undraft them, they try to eat their food, but then you draft them again, and you have a bunch of simple meals lying around your bunker?
Would it be possible for the colonist to just ... put em' back in their inventory?
This is an interesting point. I'd lean on suggesting picking up things within weight in general.
My reason for this is that if you want to haul say three stripped outfits from the edge of the map, it is possible to order a caravan with these, then after a pawn picks up 5+ items delete the zone and cancel it. If we're going to allow this sort of thing it'd be more convenient to skip the pretense and allow inventory pick-up similar to how it works for generated raid encounters.
And actually, right now you can order the pawns into a caravan, draft them and pick up the meals --> cancel caravan...but you can't just do this w/o caravan mechanic. Meanwhile, that pawn who can't haul will still drag an elephant the length of several buildings by herself to butcher it :D. It's silly.
You can do some pretty crazy plays with this especially early on if you're up for the micro.
Interesting change: crafting table interaction spots can be blocked by other walk-able objects (tables, shelves, tool cabinets, other workbenches, etc) and still be usable. If it hasn't been mentioned, workbenches are now movable.
In theory you could pack your workshops even tighter now, as long as you don't desire chairs for the interaction spots.
+1 for 'Glitter'. Glitter is unique and iconic to RW IMO, and the term is a nice opposite to the grittyness of the rimworlds. Also, Ultratech already exists in Killer Instinct.
I find it weird how tribalwear has superior insulation and similar levels of protection to basic-tier industrial clothing (e.g. t-shirt, pants), but is also cheaper.
Hmm second day, one of my colonist got a mental break and got addicted to wake-up; i mean why giving wake-up on crash landed start ? has no sence to me (not blaming about the mental break, i just find it useless at start) maybe some opinions about it guys ?
Quote from: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Hmm second day, one of my colonist got a mental break and got addicted to wake-up; i mean why giving wake-up on crash landed start ? has no sence to me (not blaming about the mental break, i just find it useless at start) maybe some opinions about it guys ?
You could make your colonists take all the wake-up in the first couple days, and really get a head start on your first structures/mining.
Hey I've been playing with 1.0 and I've noticed a couple things. 2 I would call a bug and 1 is a frustration.
1. Doctors rarely doctor without my prioritizing. Doctors should still doctor even if they're assigned to 'sleep' or 'joy' and even if their needs are below 1/3. As it is right now I have a doctor who watches TV to full recreation and goes to sleep while someone is bleeding out in 6 hours.
2. Patients should also prioritize resting faster. I run into the same issues of someone bleeding out in 10 hours playing with the horseshoe pin for 2 hours.
3. Pawns are often not great about efficiently working on bills. Let me explain.
In a later game colony I've got two primary smiths, two secondary smiths (work after growing/construction are done), two fabrication benches and a machining bench.
Both of the fabrication benches have bills assigned to primary smiths only, and maintenance bills assigned to everyone. (components up to x)
The machining table has maintenance bills only (flak pants, vest, smokepop, shield belts all to 1)
The expected behavior is that the primary smiths work on their assigned bills until those bills are done, and then they move on to the lower priority bills or to the machining bench. The secondary smiths are expected to work on the machining table when possible, and make components when the primary smiths' bills are done or when they're asleep.
The observed behavior contains the two following issues:
1. Primary smiths will choose to work on the machining bench or the wrong fabrication table, despite having half completed bills on the correct bench, or specifically assigned bills on that table.
2. Secondary smiths will choose to work on the fabrication table when the machining table is open, and they will 'reserve' the fabrication table for most of the day. Often times they'll jump in while the primary smiths are eating.
The effect is my important bills don't get done, and without the labor from those bills my primary smiths run out of things to do. Despite having 3-6 unfinished bills on the fabrication benches, the secondary smiths will reserve the entire bench for a low priority bill for days if I don't micromanage. This is very annoying when I'm aiming for 20 smithing. The current solution is to remove 'making components' from the fabrication benches and build a new fabrication bench to handle those. Then assign on a per colonist bases the machining benches' maintenance bills, which is not a good solution because it's not consistent which secondary smith can work when, and because the primary smiths might not have big bills to work on at times, and I want them doing maintenance bills at those times.
Suggested Changes
-Pawns should prioritize bills that they have already started, provided a higher priority bill that they can satisfy does not exist on the same bench.
-Pawns should prioritize bills that have their name attached, provided a higher priority bill that they can satisfy does not exist on the same bench.
-Pawns should be able to preempt other pawns, and boot the other off of a workbench if they can satisfy a bill higher in priority than the bill the other is working on, and that the other is unable to satisfy.
+1 for the crafting. My best crafter at level 15 I want to focus on crafting stuff with qualities (armor, clothes, weapons) but she runs to and fro the tailoring and the machining bench and the component assembly despite the fact I assigned her to the machining but seeing as she's only one who can makr advanced components, she goes back and forth on the matter.
"Locking" them to one job even if they can do others would help ensure that other crafters can level up their crafting on non-quality stuff (components, grenades, prosthesis, etc)
Quote from: fritzgryphon on June 25, 2018, 12:36:17 PM
Quote from: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
Hmm second day, one of my colonist got a mental break and got addicted to wake-up; i mean why giving wake-up on crash landed start ? has no sence to me (not blaming about the mental break, i just find it useless at start) maybe some opinions about it guys ?
You could make your colonists take all the wake-up in the first couple days, and really get a head start on your first structures/mining.
Getting addicted to wake-up the first few days make me think twice if it's a good start :)
There are so many ways to make sure your colonist don't take the wake up drug. Easiest is just to forbid the item. Second if you can't be bothered to destroy the drugs just never un forbid it in the first place and let it rot outside.
Third is setting up no drugs on everyone. But my preferred method is scheduled drugs on everyone for mood drugs and turning off social drugs on anything that is extremely combat/situation specific like wakeup and go go juice.
Drugs are extremely useful in this game if used correctly lead to so many advantages. If used poorly they have the harshest set backs.
You've never been in a raid before that caused you to be low on food needing you to have your cook stay up the entire night. Or a sapper group hits right when everyone is a sleep. Same situations for carvans. Maybe addiction UI should give a warning so you learn to control its use a little more, but I can use every drug in the game besides luci without any addictions besides on the chemical interest guys.
If I have a chemical interest guy ( I usually don't accept them) I just forbid all my drugs and manually turn them on when I see they are needed.
I do think it is extremely stupid pets can eat your forbidded drugs. Tbh I haven't seen it happen in 1.0 yet so I pray it was just a beta 18 thing.
To also speak on job priority. I'm kinda just biting my tongue on it because I know fluffy's work tab will fix all these issues. To me this game is extremely frustrating to play without every single aspect of fluffy's work tab. I need at the minimum 1-7 job #s instead of 1-4. I need the ability to tell one crafter to do medicine crafting before growing but not make stone blocks until after that. Or simpler things like train a chief by lowering butchering on one of them and making the trainee chief butcher before they do anything.
In B18 pets would leave their allowed areas to take drugs, very obnoxious.
Haven't had many pets in 1.0 yet, mostly self-tame fodder. NB type starts don't give you much time for animals initially.
Anyone noticed the bug where when you try to make a pawn destroy a smoothed natural stone wall, he mines it until it almost breaks and then repairs it to full?
Quote from: CrowSR on June 25, 2018, 03:03:53 PM
Anyone noticed the bug where when you try to make a pawn destroy a smoothed natural stone wall, he mines it until it almost breaks and then repairs it to full?
It has been mentioned a lot of times. Devs are most likely trying to fix it.
Quote from: Tynan on June 25, 2018, 01:19:31 AM
Your existing watermills will be repositioned and stop working - sorry.
Oh no! Goddamn Tynan, I foresee problems, I had my watermill carefully placed in a river cave, tight between cave walls and a narrow path...
Anyway its interesting to see that they require a free river path, I had no clue about that, maybe make it more obvious? But I really think the way to balance them is making a variable output, since they're essentially the same technology as windmills, that is, converting natural kinetic power into electricity. The only reason they were more reliable, is because they could funnel it, since water had no where else to go, where as wind has the whole atmosphere to escape to, so having variable output seems like ideal, something more steady than wind, and that has higher average during rainy seasons than drier seasons.
Also here is another list of pointers, again from the previous build.
- It would be a nice to have more details on pets in the caravan screen, like which pawn its assigned to, age and/or condition.
- Likewise, more details on the animals tab list, like age but anything else that may be relevant, something to make it easier for example on choosing which animal gets butchered.
- Or perhaps, the ability to reorder animals, which I don't know if there is, so we can kinda keep and internal track of.
- Some animals seems like prime candidates for pack caravan, off the top of my head cows/bulls seems an obvious one, but maybe dogs and pigs too (even if low capacity)? Right now there seems to be only a handful of pack animals.
- Again, begging for a trade caravan parking spot, had a situation where they stopped by my base's entrance, letting the cold winter air go all in.
- At that same time had one of their rival faction stop by for a quick visit, which were soon downed, needlessly to say got a hefty penalty hit, because I had to capture them and if I just rescued them they would soon get up and get killed again.
- About Penoxycycline (or whatever the name is), they seem cool to use, we never know what would be the most appropriate time for that. What would really make them more useful, is if they could prevent wound infections and food poisoning, so they could for colonist on caravan or about to get into dangerous battles.
- I really like the "pause" bill feature, however for bills like that, I feel there should be a "pause" button, just where the "unpause" button is. Just so if you feel the need, you can pause an task and then have it automatically resume later.
- We sometimes see a different cloth type in traders, some have another color, whats the deal there?
- Still have trouble with massive drug puppies, they go down on beer and other drugs like there is no tomorrow. Forbidding the stacks work, but that's less than ideal, they also also don't seem to consume stuff that is in wardrobes.
- Aldo had a weird issue with dogs eating on raw hunt while already having full stomachs
- I like some balances with clothing, feels like now Jackets do serve well as middle ground wear
On another note, let em share a story, regarding difficulty, on Phoebe Rough (began Randy but changed midway).
Difficulty seems to be much finely tuned now, even if on this mode, there seems problems with actual threats and more difficulty on the survival aspect instead. For example, I'm now at the end of the third year, and every winter is a struggle, barely scrapping by, this third year is the hardest with a toxic hitting it midwinter. So there is no more hunt left on the map, and since most wild animals insta rot there was little use there, I cannot let my (now big in number) herding animals graze outside, so they're on the verge of toxic build-up and starvation, my colonist barely scrapping by with whatever simple meals we have left, if it were not for a stock up stash of pemmican and a indoor growbed. I'm literally counting the hours for toxic fallout to end, hoping that a orbital trader comes by before I need to start butchering my herd.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Gotta say it. I expected improvements when it comes to controlling pawns.
Hopefully there are plans for adding stuff like this at some point.
There's hardly any option to scatter/move colonists efficiently in a game that punishes you for clustering colonists or poor positioning. It's why I've never blamed other players for relying on killboxes or cluster their pawns.
No hotkey to assign group positions, can't route pawns to take a specific path without using area restriction, etc. Most of the stuff achtung mod did was neat and ideal.
Ordering groups of pawns to perform a single task such as taking drugs, eat a meal etc all has to be ordered individually instead of simply selecting them and click on the job. This alone. Why not add this by now?
I believe A17 is when I started to lose controls on "right click to prioritize" a job as well. Those are things I thought would be solid in this update, but they're worse than ever in my experience.
Soaking wet debuff is just.... For that to be an ongoing encounter on maps with rivers, it's expected of me to control that situation. I've previously listed in this thread reasons why I don't have control. The mood hit is manageable, it could be reduced to -1 for all I care... The fact it's there with no elegant solution to avoid that debuff makes me question why such things get added to the game as it's tedious to micro and track. (placing bridges in random/unnecessary locations or bridging up most of the river is not ideal, nor setting area restrictions). There are small annoyances like that throughout the game, and it's why I'm complaining about a minuscule problem.
Since I'm on subject of controlling pawns: This bug is infuriating!
[Colonists blocking paths]
Video of bug: https://youtu.be/q097gSySnhk (https://youtu.be/q097gSySnhk)
Post with attachments: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41984.0 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41984.0)
Some feedback on that bug if it's even being looked into would be appreciated.
Messages:
Awesome it's added! Personally think it deserves one click access. The notification mod let me archived ALL my notifications, also had search filter.
Hope that bit gets added some point since that's how I would track things like specific events. Don't wanna pin everything to keep them there.
Deterioration:
Understandable you can't roof trees, but kind of annoying. Can't simply put a roof over items to prevent deterioration.. Doesn't add a challenge to me or affect me much with resources.
I like not having to put items in rooms sometimes for aesthetic reasons and convenience. In previous versions, the option to not store items inside punished me if raiders decided to steal, thought that was fair.
Zooming:
If I'm remembering correctly feels like we can zoom in closer. Sweet! Wished I didn't have to zoom in all the way to see progress bar on pawns tho.
Also noticed that it doesn't always display warmup-cooldown time when firing a weapon even if I zoomed all the way. You can see that in the video posted above.
There are definitely improvements/additions to appreciate in this update. I'm not digging the overall experience tho. I keep hoping it will grow on me but.. I want to spend a lot more time with it before commenting on the changes made.
Noticed a bug; tamed dromedary did not become listed in animals tab.
Tamed one dromedary successfully. Tamed two more, and those ones did not appear in the animals list.
I rebooted the game and reloaded the save, and the animals tab would no longer open. Pressing it would make the view freeze, until I clicked on another menu tab. The final exception in the log would keep occurring so long as the animals tab was trying to open.
Started with rat pet, then huskies join, then I trained the dromedaries.
(https://imgur.com/j8UWiMH)
(https://i.imgur.com/NIFfnk6.png)
e. I tamed another one, and the exception that occurs on the tame success is the 'Root Level Exception In OnGUI()' one, with these notes:
Root level exception in OnGUI(): System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at RimWorld.PawnTable_Animals.<LabelSortFunction>m__0 (Verse.Pawn p) [0x00006] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable_Animals.cs:15
at System.Linq.SortSequenceContext`2[Verse.Pawn,System.Boolean].Initialize (Verse.Pawn[] elements) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Linq.QuickSort`1[Verse.Pawn].PerformSort () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Linq.QuickSort`1+<Sort>c__Iterator21[Verse.Pawn].MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Verse.Pawn].AddEnumerable (IEnumerable`1 enumerable) [0x0001a] in /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Collections.Generic/List.cs:128
at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Verse.Pawn]..ctor (IEnumerable`1 collection) [0x00025] in /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Collections.Generic/List.cs:65
at System.Linq.Enumerable.ToList[Pawn] (IEnumerable`1 source) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at RimWorld.PawnTable.RecachePawns () [0x0002a] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:243
at RimWorld.PawnTable.RecacheIfDirty () [0x00019] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:229
at RimWorld.PawnTable.get_Size () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\PawnTable\PawnTable.cs:50
at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.get_RequestedTabSize () [0x0001d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:29
at RimWorld.MainTabWindow.get_InitialSize () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainTabWindow.cs:18
at Verse.Window.SetInitialSizeAndPosition () [0x00009] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\UI\Windows\Window.cs:261
at RimWorld.MainTabWindow.SetInitialSizeAndPosition () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainTabWindow.cs:48
at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.SetDirty () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:79
at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_PawnTable.PostOpen () [0x00018] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_PawnTable.cs:45
at RimWorld.MainTabWindow_Animals.PostOpen () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabWindows\MainTabWindow_Animals.cs:27
at Verse.WindowStack.Add (Verse.Window window) [0x0003c] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\UI\Windows\WindowStack.cs:348
at RimWorld.MainTabsRoot.ToggleTab (RimWorld.MainButtonDef newTab, Boolean playSound) [0x00086] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainTabsRoot.cs:94
at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker_ToggleTab.Activate () [0x0000d] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonWorkers\MainButtonWorker_ToggleTab.cs:12
at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker.InterfaceTryActivate () [0x00060] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainButtonWorker.cs:33
at RimWorld.MainButtonWorker.DoButton (Rect rect) [0x0011e] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Defs\DefTypes\MainButton\MainButtonWorker.cs:69
at RimWorld.MainButtonsRoot.DoButtons () [0x000ab] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonsRoot.cs:101
at RimWorld.MainButtonsRoot.MainButtonsOnGUI () [0x00017] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\MainButtons\MainButtonsRoot.cs:49
at RimWorld.UIRoot_Play.UIRootOnGUI () [0x000a6] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\UI\UIRoot_Play.cs:59
at Verse.Root.OnGUI () [0x0004f] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:164
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.Root:OnGUI() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:169)
So, you can build watermill generators on bridges... Please nerf
I found out about that when i accidentally hovered a wall blueprint over a bridge and was like "whaaaat you can build on tho- wait...". I tried putting a watermill generator on a bridge and it worked. This allowed me to pretty much fill a river up with watermill generators to get a ridiculous, non-stop power supply.
I think this needs to get nerfed, it's way too cheap (since wood is renewable) for what you get when you fill a river up with them
I still haven't 100% worked it out...when is it possible for pawns to traverse between squares diagonally, and when is this restricted? I sometimes see pawns dart between each other in checkerboard setups, but in others the game insists on pathing them through something that slows them instead or blocking them entirely.
Even after reloading/replaying some encounters I've not pinned down a consistent model that allows me to anticipate what happens each time I right click a drafted pawn. Sometimes, they move right past diagonally and sometimes they don't.
Same deal for pawns moving through each other. As of 1.0 this is much more restricted...but sometimes they still move through each other while usually they can't. Absent consistency, it would be nice to know what the rules allow in terms of movement since this stuff has a huge impact on raid micromanagement.
Several points and thoughts. For reference, I played on Cassandra Rough Crashlanding
-I concur that Glitterworld is a better term than Ultratech.
-I had a colonist get the "Witnessed Ally's Death" mood debuff despite having a mountain between them and the fight. They were both outside though.
-The animal taming/training maintenance is not too bad, and I think it is a good addition.
-I think that the current NOT being able to automatically mine an entire Node is good.
-With 4 sources of Recreation (Takign a walk, chattign at table, chess, horseshoes) the recreation tolerances are sitting around 45-65% for each type. Not a complaint, just providing data.
-There is a B18 mod for Pathing that lets you specify certain areas you want pawns to avoid if possible. I would love to see that or something like it make it into the game. It made the pathing algorithm treat that tile as if it took longer to cross. I would paint the Heavy Avoid zone in the doorway to bedrooms and all doorways to the Freezer, so people wouldn't go through there unless their objective was in the bedroom/Freezer.
Oh and I think I've found an oddity, others please confirm on this, it seems like plate armor has actually worse protection overall than a flak vest+pants combo, all of that while overriding clothing as well, even though they cover more body parts. Though I haven't built them yet so I don't know regarding materials costs, but got and excellent plate armor from quest reward. From stats alone I can't see the reason why they would be usable instead. They also don't seem to cause any clunkness/heavy, which is what we would expect.
As a side note, begging reminder to add armor to their own category, and make it smelt-able.
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly
( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )
Quote from: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 04:43:36 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly
( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )
In 1.0 you need more than just a horseshoe pin. As your colony grows more and more diverse joy sources reduces their tolerance to joy. My preferred setup is a dining room with a tv, pin, chest table and pool table inside of it. Giving your colonist assigned joy time at start and end of days lets them go watch the sunrise/sunset as well.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 04:13:26 PM
I still haven't 100% worked it out...when is it possible for pawns to traverse between squares diagonally, and when is this restricted? I sometimes see pawns dart between each other in checkerboard setups, but in others the game insists on pathing them through something that slows them instead or blocking them entirely.
Even after reloading/replaying some encounters I've not pinned down a consistent model that allows me to anticipate what happens each time I right click a drafted pawn. Sometimes, they move right past diagonally and sometimes they don't.
Same deal for pawns moving through each other. As of 1.0 this is much more restricted...but sometimes they still move through each other while usually they can't. Absent consistency, it would be nice to know what the rules allow in terms of movement since this stuff has a huge impact on raid micromanagement.
I noticed this as well while testing some 1.0 movements.
I think part of it has to do with reserved movement. Even in b18 you could not issue a movement comand to a square reserved for a pawn movement command. However you could achieve fluid control in that patch by undraft draft. Two new changes are that a pawn in a reserved space will instantly try to move off the space at the earliest opportunity where they are not locked by an animation, and second, is that pawns will now 'reserve' spaces the game is forcing them to move to (this happens a lot with tightly clustered pawns if they are jostling each other).
This causes situations where if you intend to place a pawn in a doorway, while it was reserved by someone currently standing in another tile, the pawn will path through the doorway completely, because the door is reserved by a pawn drafted somewhere else (again, this is very different behavior from b18 as a drafted pawn would never reserve tiles it wasn't standing on, now it can happen)
This can be disaster, since that one tile is the difference between getting hit by 1 or 5 enemy attackers at melee range, not to mention walking into no cover.
I have noticed other situations where collisions during a movement command will cause asinine repathing but this is kind of hard to reproduce.
Again, it can't be overemphasized that during outnumbered fights on extreme where you aren't completely cheesing the enemy, fluidity of control and making sure pawns take the actual paths you want them to take (and not a path the game 'helps' you to take) is of utmost importance.
PS for claims of overpowered or balance it would be helpful for people to state difficulty they play on. Even in this thread there are certain users making wide range assumptions about optimal play / overpoweredness and making passive aggressive 'get gud' snark despite playing on beginner difficulties.
Quote from: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 04:43:36 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly
( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )
There's a new recreation tolerance introduced in 1.0.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422604646
Colonist schedules: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422601348
The more resources your colony has, the more recreational variety your colonists require. I like this new system, personally.
Hello Tynan,
Love what you did so far.
As requested, here some feedback after testing a few colonies in unstable version 1.0, Cassandra, Some challenge
(now medium).
Bug/Features I noticed:
- Pawns do not receive any additional moods debuff from banishing a pawn with who he share a relationship with (wife, etc.).
Personally, I would be pretty angry if my wife/son/brother etc. would be banish.
- I cannot prioritize a pawn on an art job when the sculptor table is being used by another pawn. This behavior seem
unique to sculptor table.
- Pawns prefer to eat pemmican over simple meal, even if the simple meals is closer to the dining room. They also often
eat packaged survival meal while I have other meals available. Some control on what pawns are allowed to eat would be nice! =)
- A brawler pawn with no passion in shooting can get a 'shooting inspiration' event. If brawler dislike ranged weapon,
how can they get inspired by it?
- Manage drug policy menu still use Joy wording instead of Recreation.
- You cannot install a cooler or vent over a smoothed wall.
- Raiders will sometimes try to "flee" literally through my base.
Various suggestions/observations:
- It would be nice to have a way to dispose weapons earlier than electric smelting. After all, I can burn a power armor
in a campfire...but not a wooden club. ;)
- When rescuing a pawn that want to join the colony (escape pod or rescue mission), it would be nice to have the option to
"accept/decline" their offer to join. Another idea would be to have a small time period where you can banish him without
consequence.
- "Pause" caravan should be renamed to something like "Rest". Also, it would be nice if it would provide a bonus to healing
speed/immunity gain as getting sick during travels can be really bothersome. As a matter of fact, I did loose a pawn
to infection while having a doctor with 15 medical skill & proper medicines access in the same caravan.
- Infestation can happen in multiple and sometime far away area of the colony. However, the alert message
only show you the main infestation area. Maybe, you could add additional arrows showing where the infestation is, like when
you get raided by multiple groups.
- I do feel that Intellectual skill have a bit of limited use and really don't have much use except drug synthesis once
all tech are finished. Perhaps using it to craft components and advanced component would be a good idea as it's often
a busy job for colonists.
- Speaking of which, there seem to be 4 different "work types" associated to Craft inside the work tab. Drug cooking
(cooking skill), drug synthesis (intellectual skill), crafting spot (crafting skill) and unskilled labor (stone cutting,
chemfuel, smelting). Also crafting a bow from crafting spot and smithy use different priority even if it's the same item.
To make it worse, the work tab say that it's related on crafting skills and passions while it rarely use that skill (only
non drug crafting spot) Maybe it should be renamed and/or split in their proper works assignment. For example, drug cooking
could become a low cooking priority job, crafting tribalwear a tailor job, crafting tribal weapons a smiting job, etc.
- Adding "Force March" option to caravan could be a nice idea.
- It's really minor but it Would be nice to be able to place floor under large furniture, like the electric crematorium,
comms console, etc.
- Speaking of which, pawns can have some difficulty to build corner wall if adjacent walls have been already build.
- While watching the information screen on a pawn, it would be nice if we could switch from one to another.
Otherwise, any way that would allow us to see and compare pawn stats (like Numbers mod) could be really nice.
- Maybe that just me.. but every colony I build end up by being a massive... warehouse. Personally, I would advice to
increase the items stack a bit. Maybe 100 instead of 75 ? ;)
As others already reported/suggest:
- Having medieval helmet that fit with the plate armor would be great!
- I think it would be a good idea to merge meats like what you did for leathers. Another idea could be to add a bill for
"Mixed meat", just like Patchleather is for leathers.
- It would be nice to have an interface to see what is inside a transport Pod when loading. Also, it would be great if
the game would allow more than one colonist to load a transport pod.
- The game slowdown greatly when opening context menu.
- There should be an option to allow time to stop with a popup When a caravan arrive at his destination.
- When undrafting hungry pawns, they immediately start eating a meal even if the game is still paused. Which will be instantly
dropped if I prioritize them on something else. It would be nice if there were a small delay (at least wait until unpause) so
pawn don't carelessly leave their meals on the ground after a fight. Another idea would be that the pawn could put back
the meal in his inventory.
I must admit that I often use a lot of mods (mods junky, heh). However, you really did a great job on the QoL aspect of the game
and I feel like I don't need as many mods as before. This being say, there is still one function that I miss a lot and
it's the ability to mark some items to be haul urgently.
Balances Feedback:
- The game economy is much better than before. It's harder to get insanely rich, which is a good thing!
- Raiding/infestation difficulty curve seem pretty good as well. It's good to feel challenged even in mid/end game where
your base is fully fortified. Combat is more fun in general!
- Also feel like melee fighters are much more viable then early version.
- Caravan traveling is much better! Rewards are often worth it. My only real issues is about infection/sickness
during travel.
Hope this will help!
The issue with Recreation Tolerance is it's really easy to set up a situation where colonists barely do any Solitary Recreation. I had an arctic colony on the brink of collapse (without any set Joy hours) and the colonists only did Solitary Recreation once in a blue moon. It was also extremely easy for a colonist to get "stuck" doing a recreation at just 10% efficiency.
Enjoying a lot of the changes, though I'm still heavily reliant on mods to tailor the experience to me.
If I may suggest, melee and medicine are the only two skills that don't have a good way of training automatically. Medicine not as much, as the need for medicine occurs regular. But melee is just hard to train without direct control of the pawn, unlike shooting which scales as pawns hunt. Can you make it so that there's a small amount of melee XP given when a pawn does minning? Doesn't have to be large at all, say an eight or a quarter of the XP granted to minning.
Hi,
I have been playing 1.0 for a few days now and thought I'd share some key observations, bugs, etc from my colony.
I played the Crashlanded scenario on Cassandra with "Some Challenge", landing on an "easy" year-round growing temperate forest.
- I'd forgotten there was so much micro-managing you need to do for Toxic Fallout! During the TF I think I found a bug: Colonists don't respect allowed areas when a marriage is happening. Of course they chose the middle of a toxic fallout to go get married out in a field!!
- It seems a bit unfair that the "kibble only" insect meat is priced the same as all other animal meat. I think that's a change from previous?
- Wind turbines are even more of a pain in the ass now, and I don't think I'll be using them in my next colony.
- You can't place a growing zone on constructed floors, but if one's already there, it's not destroyed when you build floors over top.
- Pawns can play horseshoes with a closed door in between them and the shoepin.
- Pawns who are incapable of dumb labour can still do opportunistic hauling jobs.
- You can "deliver resources to grave" even though graves require no resources.
QoL Mods I'm really missing in 1.0, and feel could be added to the base game:
- Urgent hauling. I really want a way to say "hey this is important, take it first before you do anything else" without micro-managing every colonist/item.
- Stockpile % refill: Being able to control that colonists will only refill a stockpile after it gets below x% really helps with efficiency and avoiding micro management. For example, having a single stack of corn in my kitchen, which only gets topped up when below 33%, saves running back and forth to the freezer for every meal. (or smokeleaf when making joints, cloth/herbal/neutroramine when making medicine, etc)
Is this a bug or intended? A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood. The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that. The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.
Screenshot attached.
[attachment deleted due to age]
+1 for changing pause to rest. Idk if it's gamebreaking to maybe also give a slight boost to recovery chance (pawns often get infected after their own raids). Perhaps equivalent to staying in bed? Maybe use bedroll qualities? Player inability to control their medicine and their tending is quite frightening to a new player. Again, not a new player, but consider this to a new player's perspective.
Bedrolls are pretty much useless as they were before. You need cotton/leather to make them. The only real reason to use them is if you don't have enough trees around but if you can make bedrolls there's animals around and you can hunt them well enough. Even in the event of players using bedrolls for raids or whatever, it's finicky to set them up to the point I just use sleeping spots. The Use Bedrolls mod lets pawns carry one around in their inventory and places them on the floor when used, quite useful for post battle patch up. Maybe add resting effectiveness during caravan trips?
Might I recommend the bascinet for a medieval helmet? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JYXu8LGddWU/maxresdefault.jpg
Being able to flick a switch while drafted is so useful. I really appreciate this! No more undrafting colonists just to turn on the turrets!
I would be totally fine if, when starting a new game, the priority system is 100% blank. I understand new players may need an idea how to use it, but considering that I've started God knows how many colonists, clicking everything to 0 so I can copy paste each pawn's priority individually is always a pain.
I definitely agree that bedrolls need to be adjusted for your new world map. Since we have so much more motivation to explore we should have motivation to pack for the trip properly. I think bedrolls should have quality attached and trying to travel without them is a neg mood. Also an idea that is probably better suited to be a mod, a stretcher to carry allies back home faster.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 07:43:08 PM
<snip>
Might I recommend the bascinet for a medieval helmet? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JYXu8LGddWU/maxresdefault.jpg
<snip>
Really? I was thinking something more Italian (http://www.artizanstore.com/images/detailed/9/A000018_L.jpg?t=1486103740)
Quote from: Aerial on June 25, 2018, 07:30:55 PM
Is this a bug or intended? A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood. The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that. The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.
Screenshot attached.
Did he/she have the new Gourmand trait? IIRC, it causes occasional Pigging Out Mental Breaks even when a Pawn in content, the same way that Chemical Fascination causes pawns to go on Drug Binges.
Thank you thank you thank you for 64 bit. Tons of great changes here, but that may be the best one.
Feedback: my doctor went to sleep instead of tending somebody who was bleeding. I thought that was supposed to change this patch?
I see you are a woman of taste, Diana. :V
+1 for the stretcher. Pawns don't even need to put a pawn in there, it could be a passive item in their inventory.
Quote from: rkade8583 on June 25, 2018, 08:18:22 AM
Can I request a tool to allow me to mine an entire node? Or make steel easier to see? As is, I'm having to dev-mode it to mine full nodes and, frankly, steel is way harder to see than it needs to be (especially around granite and sandstone at least for me. I have the same problem with Uranium and Marble.)
I don't much care for mods, but there's one mod I refuse to not play with and it's that Mine-it-All thing that lets you just select a whole vein and be done with it.
I'd love to see this simple tool get added to the base game. It's such a huge quality-of-life timesaver.
Created first masterwork item, Bluefur tribalwear, with lvl 10 in Crafting. If only I was as lucky when it comes to taming animals. :D
Quote from: Diana Winters on June 25, 2018, 08:01:40 PM
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 25, 2018, 07:43:08 PM
Might I recommend the bascinet for a medieval helmet? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JYXu8LGddWU/maxresdefault.jpg
Really? I was thinking something more Italian (http://www.artizanstore.com/images/detailed/9/A000018_L.jpg?t=1486103740)
There is only one correct answer. Deus Vult, my brothers! (http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/178/214/d99.jpg)
In all honesty, a barbute (https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-87491460501412/barbute-helm-16-gauge-3.gif) (visorless helmet) might be the wisest choice. If we aren't getting anything on-par with the Brotherhood of Steel for our power armor, I doubt we'd get it for a medieval helmet. Besides, it's that much easier to identify your pawns from each other.
Yeeah 1.0! Guess I can finally go back to modding and actually update them now that it's worth the effort xD
Decided to try a bit of 1.0. Lots of nice improvements, although I'm not feeling very optimistic about a release any time soon since there's a whole lot that just feels very off.
Tried a few games this is how a few of them went.
Settings: Randy extreme, crashlanded. NB looks a bit too hardcore and Rngy for me, although it looks interesting from a roleplaying perspective I guess, having a completely clean slate.
Game #1: Went for a mountain turtle town strategy. Ended up getting a beloved "area revealed" essentially making it a useless town now a target for infestations. Reminded myself why I don't play that anymore, eventually quit because it wasn't fun.
One amusing anecdote: I ended up uncovering an ancient danger. It was some mechanoids that don't attack the base and just loiter. The battle music just played the entire game which was annoying. When some siege dudes showed up, they just threw all their mortars onto the caskets, opening them up and killed the colonists inside. They then went to the caskets to go attack them. The mechanoids gave them a nice welcome.
Game #2: Decided to try out the new autocannons, went in with a strategy of just beelining them. They're terrible. A turret and a goliath 500 steel 6 component autocannon... failed to kill a single person in a 5 person early game raid against pistols. Having put everything into the strategy, it failed miserably.
It looks like the intention is that these aren't really upgrades so much as turrets you put in back of your main line of turrets for a double amount of firepower. They'd be pretty terrible at that too tbh. I suggest either halving their cost, doubling their damage, or doubling their range, making them either super expensive sniper turrets or actually effective at their original goal. In actual gameplay, turrets usually have a wall between them to bunch them up and prevent explosions, so I'm not sure how these special turrets would perform even as a backline of turrets, though. If you spread out your turrets instead of block the back ones' LOS, you'll probably just end up with the same amount of firepower.
Game #3: Decided to play a real game rather than a super cheesy one xD
Things go somewhat normal. Ended up building on the side of a mountain. Area had two chokes, so I spammed about 3000 steel worth of deadfall traps into both. Researched mortars and built a couple of them, used rice to make chemfuel for warheads. I wasn't going to bother with fighting now that the new armor system doesn't reduce damage. Deflection is nice, but if one lucky pila is death, uh, no thanks.
First recruits: Someone addicted to wake-up, which was convenient given the starting 10 drugs, so I kept her for temporary use. Also, another all around decent grower.
Raids just ran into deadfalls, so that's still effective :D
Got a quest to save a prisoner, was the wife of one of the recruits. This turned out to be impossible at this stage of the game. The husband gets -20 for dead wife and -18 for failed quest. For 30 days.
that needs working on.
Immediately after that a toxic fallout hits at about day 30. Since he and the junkie are just deadweight during the event, I banish them both. Considered executing the husband since he's a frothing pile of depression that will just die anyways, but decided against it.
Both instantly die to my deadfall entrances. Xom finds this hilarious.
Toxic fallout only lasted about a week, so looks like early fallouts are still not too bad, which is nice. Another recruits chased by pirates comes along, raiders die to deadfalls again.
I ended up getting a bunch of research done during the toxic fallout and found some weird things. Multi-anaylzer requires advanced components... but to research fabrication you need... multi-analyzer. I ended up getting some through an exotic trader, but even towns do not have them nor do caravans or bulk trade ships. Even then, they were 300 a pop. This feels too RNGy to me and not at all newbie friendly.
A poison ship lands, and having nothing but deadfalls and a bunch of guys with no shooting, and only 3 people capale of manning mortars, I just let it sit there until a raider comes close.
Either cold snaps got super buffed or the map was just colder than expected, I think winter was only 12C, so I wasn't expecting this. -20C instantly killed everyone except one recruit which had a parka before I could even throw up a heater when I realized what was going on.
Decided to keep playing, but immediately after that a power failed occurred right next to some chemfuel, exploding the whole base.
Decided to punch the poison ship out of curiosity at this point. Only 3 lancers which just died to traps xD
General comments on 1.0
There were lots of nice things. Like the new art, better trade deals on world map. A lot of cheesy tactics still work just fine, but ever since alpha 5 bullet sponges went bye bye you have to use some form of cheese anyways xD
Some things, like nerfing animal swarms, just weren't really necessary. It's a fun tactic that is more talked about because it's amusing that it works as well as it does than it being actually useful, mostly by people who never actually tried it. Unless you're a tropical tribal, there's much better options. Fallout and volcanic winter usually means your army collapses, and either you make literally hundreds of boars, or you need like 5 doctors constantly healing them, and even then they turn into mush fast having maybe two or three limbs after a few months. Nerfing boar hauling I get, but the whole animal upkeep just isn't needed imo. So for tribals in a warm biome it was about a "7/8" and for everyone else it's about a "6", to use the ratings in your balance thread. I don't feel like nerfing something that's only powerful in one very specific setting is really worth the effort.
Recreation tolerances are bit out of whack too. This is something that I can deal with but newbies are going to be confused and annoyed imo. I needed a mixture of chess, art, recreational drugs, and hoops just to get it down to 50% tolerance, which is pretty high.
Specifically, newbies will probably just have no idea why their dudes are getting depressed, as the tolerances aren't really conveyed very well, you have to know where to look to even find that info. Iwas actually confused myself at first when I realized after 1 week that my tolerance for private recreation hit like 97% or something.
It was actually worse than being depressed, since my schedules was 4 hour joy, then anything, then 4 hour joy, they just spent all day going for walks and watching the clouds in a vain attempt to stave off depression.
Quote from: Serina on June 25, 2018, 05:06:40 PM
Quote from: NagashUD on June 25, 2018, 04:43:36 PM
Is it me or since the beginning of the 1.0 pawns always need to fulfill their joy meter; i mean they mainly spend their time to play horseshoes or talk at the table.. it been 5 days my pawns just playing, cook a meal or whatever then go back playing for 4 hours... this in a row and i have the bad feeling they didn't do anything really, that breaks the gameplay imo, sadly
( By the way the 'rest until healed' is not fixed yet )
There's a new recreation tolerance introduced in 1.0.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422604646
Colonist schedules: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1422601348
The more resources your colony has, the more recreational variety your colonists require. I like this new system, personally.
Oh thanks for the explainations, i didn't pay attention to this detail !!
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 22, 2018, 10:20:12 AM
For tribal starts I consider a siege inside 1st game year to be the single most threatening raid type on extreme. You're outnumbered, outgunned, and if raiders haven't turned up with a sniper yet, you have no realistic way to lift the siege without exposing multiple pawns to death on biomes that aren't animal-friendly.
LOL, I just outranged raiders with my Greatbows!https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41782.msg413130#msg413130
It looks like 1.0 toned down the snipers. In B18 standard raids would have 2-4 snipers often, and sieges often had that many as well. Great bows don't outrange snipers.
But I got a siege in 1.0 and nobody in the 15 man siege had one (and I only had one dropped prior), it looks like they're a lot less prevalent now and that affects my grading on siege difficulty a lot in 1.0 if it's really reduced to this extent. I'm also doing tribal/extreme and I didn't get touched by the siege after using some scavenged bolt actions.
Maybe sappers are hardest now? They're all doable though. In terms of tedium mechanoids >> everything though. Multiple centipedes take a long time to put down still, though it's a lot better than initial 1.0 release.
I started a new game to check out the latest updates and was reminded of something that's bugged me since it was introduced. The character creation screen has a "Team Skills" section that helpfully lists the highest value your colonists have for each skill EXCEPT animals, crafting, artistic, and social. Why leave those out?
FYI Nothing changed about pawn movement interactions, it's been the same for years now (since we made it so pawns can't overlap in melee situations, to stop insane imba pile-ups).
It's just called Ultratech because that's the tech level; it doesn't necessarily come from a glitterworld. I've been trying to standardize things a bit towards the RW tech levels (Neolithic, medieval, industrial, spacer, ultratech, archotech).
New build is going up. Raw change list:
------
Fix: Stats window displays armor penetration even for weapons that don't interact with armor (e.g. EMP)
Rebalanced several weapons to increase damage per-shot (and thus armor rating) without changing DPS much: -Assault rifle -LMG -Minigun -Charge rifle
Adjusted mining speed vs walls.
Armor penetration stat now has an explanatory description when you select it in the stats page.
Bloodlust social fight chance factor 2x -> 4x.
Heart attack adjustments.
Remove some erroneous newlines in messages.
Crashlanded no longer starts with wake-up.
Rename SimpleCurve2D -> SimpleSurface.
Reduced soaking wet thought impact to -3. Slightly slowed down movement through water. Marsh now counts as a form of shallow water.
Changed steel graphics to be more visible.
Art cleanup: Ship parts.
Change some armor categories (mainly bomb blunt -> sharp)
Reduces armor penetration on some specific weapons.
Fix: Armor stats' post-process curves are tuned assuming 100% is perfect protection.
Fix 3444: Wide rivers can spawn with unsupported overhead mountains
Fix 3455: Extreme slowdown while right-click prioritize float menu is open
Implemented three-way roll armor system.
Improved art for dessicated animals somewhat.
Made special dessicated version of thin body type and applied it to female/thin bodies. This fixes a bug where clothed dessicated corpses that are thin or female draw the skeleton past the edge of the clothes. Also refactored and simplified body graphic loading code a bit and adjusted head stump graphics.
Fix: Human skin shader is applied to dessicated skull, making it reddish.
Improved art for dessicated humans.
Transport pods now write their contents on the inspect pane.
Tightened up meal graphics.
Changed letter dismissal option text from "OK" to "dismiss". Thanks, Apple human interface guidelines.
Inspirations are now associated with skills and are more likely if a pawn has passions in those skills. Reduced inspiration skill level requirements.
Non-tribal colonies start with nutrient paste researched. (this is so tribals don't get it automatically as well).
Revert "Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research."
Brawlers can no longer get shooting inspirations.
Animal infection chance factor 0.20 -> 0.10.
Watermill generator now requires heavy terrain, so it can't be built on bridges.
Power armor research cost 1600 -> 3000.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 11:32:43 PM
It looks like 1.0 toned down the snipers. In B18 standard raids would have 2-4 snipers often, and sieges often had that many as well. Great bows don't outrange snipers.
But I got a siege in 1.0 and nobody in the 15 man siege had one (and I only had one dropped prior), it looks like they're a lot less prevalent now and that affects my grading on siege difficulty a lot in 1.0 if it's really reduced to this extent. I'm also doing tribal/extreme and I didn't get touched by the siege after using some scavenged bolt actions.
Maybe sappers are hardest now? They're all doable though. In terms of tedium mechanoids >> everything though. Multiple centipedes take a long time to put down still, though it's a lot better than initial 1.0 release.
This is probably a good thing TBH. It used to be kind of pointless trying to research good gear fast when it was more likely that you could get a psychic lance to use on an enemy sniper first.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 25, 2018, 10:32:25 AM
1.0 seems to have changed animal vision range for food. In the winter, this lets every squirrel, rat, and muffalo beeline across the map, through player defenses, and attempt to eat simple meals.
On reflection I'm thinking this is probably not ideal. While it can be a mild nuisance in some situations, you can just shut the door for those. In the vast majority of cases, animals congregating into base to this extent makes it open season on very time-efficient draft hunting, complete with access to doors and pathing manipulation to make the odd revenge less threatening.
I left kibble outside for my muffalos in winter, and exactly as you say, every rodent across the map went right for it. It was great. I just had my best melee colonist club them all to death.
This was silly and unrealistic, but I don't see why baited traps shouldn't be a thing.
QuoteFYI Nothing changed about pawn movement interactions, it's been the same for years now (since we made it so pawns can't overlap in melee situations, to stop insane imba pile-ups).
Maybe nothing *intentionally* changed, but the difference between B18 and 1.0 is not subtle. It's not a "oh they might be moving kind of differently", it's "pawns are literally doing things that never happened one time in hundreds of hours of play on the previous build".
- You can right click a group of 6 pawns and have them bounce into > 3x3 square different from the circles drawn. If this ever happened in B18, it was near 0%. I have footage of it happening multiple times in one bout of draft hunting in 1.0.
- 1.0 absolutely introduced pawns blocking other pawns from pathing through, another 0% incidence in B18.
- This cuts both ways. Load up a B18 vs 1.0 build where raiders or manhunter animals are all trying to beat on one door in a 1 wide corridor. In B18, raiders/animals could stack as many as 6+ bodies on a tile and all melee the door. Now, at most one can hit the door as the other one moves away, no possibility for 3 or more attacking from one tile whatsoever.
- Diagonal blocking wasn't a thing in B18. It is in 1.0. I used this as part of door micro in both builds extensively. It's definitely different.
That's not to say the 1.0 concept is worse per se', but there's no question it's different. Whatever the rules are, it's just nice if they're consistent with the information the game causes players to anticipate. I would like to see less collision overrides/canceling destination spot reservation though (IE where circles show up = where the pawn stops eventually stops every time).
QuoteThis is probably a good thing TBH. It used to be kind of pointless trying to research good gear fast when it was more likely that you could get a psychic lance to use on an enemy sniper first.
On balance I agree. It's just that it changes my opinion of what is "hardest raid type" since you're not nearly guaranteed to see 2-4 snipers return fire any time you contest an early-ish sieges before having mortars, and player himself isn't running 6 + normal quality or better snipers at a whim. I like 1.0's gun progression a little better, though I'm not particular (whatever raids you, eventually this is what you have too).
QuoteThis was silly and unrealistic, but I don't see why baited traps shouldn't be a thing.
Bait seems reasonable, but maybe not baiting 2/3 of the fauna on the map into an open door freezer through 4 other open doors :D. I'm not sure what parameters would work to constrain this somewhat so the player has to actually move a little to get food in the winter from hunting.
I'll have to look into the pawn movement details. Perhaps we fixed a bug or changed something that had an effect. You're describing pawns stacking up in melee in B18, which would be a bug, so if we did fix that it could have had some other effects as well.
Just as a general note, it's a lot more meaningful to try to evaluate the game as it exists, perhaps in comparison with other games, but not so much in comparison with a previous version. A lot of things can really seem more important or impactful than they are when comparing to how things worked before; I don't want all the oxygen in these discussions to be sucked up by talk about neutral changes from B18. Over time, the B18 comparison will become meaningless and the game will just exist .
After all does anyone care to compare B18 to A17 any more? No, because it's forgotten and irrelevant. What's going to matter is what sticks out in an absolute sense, not what sticks out in comparison with B18. So I'm trying to focus on that.
Fair enough. I wouldn't have brought up B18 to quite such an extent, except to note that something pretty significant changed in movement in contrast to what you've stated. Unit stacking to egregious levels was still a thing before 1.0 (I could get 5-6 on one tile too), so 1.0 is likely closer to the intended functionality.
For 1.0 specific concerns I'd emphasize 3 things:
- Inconsistency with drawn circles vs where pawns actually stand while drafted once they stop moving (most prevalent when right clicking 5+ pawns)
- Inconsistency on when diagonal movement between own-faction pawns is fast vs requires a delay or movement to a side
- Whether or not own-faction pawns blocking others outright is intended. Example: 3 pawns standing still block a door and you order a 4th through. I have been allowed to pass through those pawns without them moving in 1.0, only to be unable to return to the spot the 4th pawn started...a one way trip with no other factors. I'm not sure which outcome is intended, but it's probably not "both" :D.
I wish I could give a detailed description of what orders allows pass through vs not but I haven't pinned down a way to do it consistently.
Why did the difficulty names get changed? The system in .18 and previous was fun and unique.
(https://i.imgur.com/X5ehs09.png)
Now it gets changed to this boring thing?
(https://i.imgur.com/HNOMOw5.png)
Please consider reverting this change. It wasn't needed...
edit: at the very least, revert it on the English versions. I understand that stuff may not translate well, but that's no reason to change the untranslated version.
When managing drug policies it still uses 'joy' instead of 'recreation'. Loving the update
-Revert "Nutrient paste dispenser no longer requires research."
There's a nutrient paste dispenser-shaped hole in my heart right now, but not in my kitchen; it didn't get wiped from last night's change like watermills have in the past, even though my guys haven't researched it yet. I'm going to prioritize researching it so I don't feel like I got a freebie.
Looks like goop is still on the menu, boys!
Quote from: rkade8583 on June 25, 2018, 08:18:22 AM
Can I request a tool to allow me to mine an entire node? Or make steel easier to see? As is, I'm having to dev-mode it to mine full nodes and, frankly, steel is way harder to see than it needs to be (especially around granite and sandstone at least for me. I have the same problem with Uranium and Marble.)
Yeah, some of the mineable resources are way too hard to see, at least for me. Especially since I play on a 1440p monitor and the default zoom has everything ant-sized. How hard would it to do a graphical mod that would essentially make uranium/compacted x 'pop out' against the background terrain? I'd even consider inverted colors for them.
A HUGE thumbs up regarding bills, btw: the "Copy to Clipboard" feature is a major change for the better. Just had a reason to use it for the first time.
I can see why the difficulty naming was changed, not sure how I feel about it, though. Now that the overall game is a little harder, it makes more sense to emphasize that higher difficulties will just murder you.
That being said, perhaps it's best to just retire extreme instead. I'm not even sure intense is possible using naked brutality on a cold map now, so hardcore dudes still have something impossible to try and win xD
Quote from: Greep on June 26, 2018, 01:06:58 AM
I can see why the difficulty naming was changed, not sure how I feel about it, though. Now that the overall game is a little harder, it makes more sense to emphasize that higher difficulties will just murder you.
Please enlighten the rest of the thread. Especially me.. I can see no possible reason for it beyond anti-fun and dumbing stuff down.
Possible glitch/bug in the way snow is melting on the map during a change of seasons:
(http://i.imgur.com/YzYuR4T.png) (https://imgur.com/YzYuR4T)
I'm using last night's save with tonight's update, if that has any bearing on things.
Yeah actually the difficulty menu does have highlight text, so you'd have to be really dense not to understand what you're getting yourself into >.>
Quote from: Greep on June 26, 2018, 01:06:58 AM
I can see why the difficulty naming was changed, not sure how I feel about it, though. Now that the overall game is a little harder, it makes more sense to emphasize that higher difficulties will just murder you.
That being said, perhaps it's best to just retire extreme instead. I'm not even sure intense is possible using naked brutality on a cold map now, so hardcore dudes still have something impossible to try and win xD
I have a relatively stable cas/extreme NB start with around 8 pawns nearing end of 5501.
I did make one tweak to the starting scenario though. I switched from "new arrivals" to "new tribe" :). That said, it took a few failures and re-thinking the opening to get something functional. First run died to massed sapper tbagging (winnable, but 1.0 changed AI and I hadn't adjusted yet), second to early malaria. Then I took a break with 3 man tribe start before going back to NB to practice my "open ancient dangers immediately" approach.
After some finagling with that I can handle those pretty consistently now, and thus could play out of most starting positions on NB/extreme (no sea ice, and not having a bow makes ice sheet more RNG, on others you can craft bow to proc cryptosleep at range).
There are plenty of better players out there than me, so it's a bit early to go retiring extreme difficulty!
Lost yet another NB attempt due to the mad animal event (which always triggers within a few days), followed by infection that progresses faster than immunity even when resting the entire time in a clean room and bed. There is no healroot on the map and no time to cultivate it.
Quote from: Polder on June 26, 2018, 02:13:11 AM
Lost yet another NB attempt due to the mad animal event (which always triggers within a few days), followed by infection that progresses faster than immunity even when resting the entire time in a clean room and bed. There is no healroot on the map and no time to cultivate it.
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:24:55 AM
Quote from: Polder on June 26, 2018, 02:13:11 AM
Lost yet another NB attempt due to the mad animal event (which always triggers within a few days), followed by infection that progresses faster than immunity even when resting the entire time in a clean room and bed. There is no healroot on the map and no time to cultivate it.
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
A disclaimer might be in order, but I pray you don't change the scenario itself.
"This scenario is
meant to be unfair...proceed at your own risk." might be a better choice of wording. I personally don't find it unfair. Extremely challenging, but not unfair. I'm probably having the best time playing this scenario since my first game.
"Unfair" to me implies that you're almost certainly going to die, regardless of what you do. I don't feel that's the case with NB, at all.
I mean... you've already warned that it's extremely difficult. Do you really need to blatantly point it out further?
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 26, 2018, 02:32:15 AM
I mean... you've already warned that it's extremely difficult. Do you really need to blatantly point it out further?
People keep bringing up cases where they died because of some random event that seemed near-unavoidable.
I think this is fine, given what the scenario is. However, some players may perceive this as illegitimate all the same and this will generate player anger.
You could always change the description to "I created this scenario for a certain type of person. To hurt them."
Once people get comfortable with a more or less finalized version of 1.0, I think the player anger would dissipate, and playing NB becomes a similar proposition as playing on an Ice Sheet. It becomes a badge of honor/bragging rights to have done it.
I'd go with downplaying it, imo. If you make it serious, people will take it serious. Possible scenario descriptions:
"You are likely to be eaten by a grue"
"10 out of 10 raiders recommend you choose this scenario"
"Make sure to whine on the forums when you die"
"You wake up with a hangover, and no pants"
Kind of like dungeon of the endless' "easy" and "too easy" difficulties (they're both insanely difficult)
Quote from: Greep on June 26, 2018, 03:03:15 AM
I'd go with downplaying it, imo. If you make it serious, people will take it serious. Possible scenario descriptions:
"You are likely to be eaten by a grue"
"10 out of 10 raiders recommend you choose this scenario"
"Make sure to whine on the forums when you die"
"You wake up with a hangover, and no pants"
Kind of like dungeon of the endless' "easy" and "too easy" difficulties (they're both insanely difficult)
I support this.
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:24:55 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
I didn't understand how infection worked and that healroot is basically required unless the treating medic has very high skills. I also didn't know healroot doesn't spawn in all biomes. I kept ending up in what seemed like death due to almost solely RNG due to a preference for arid biome.
(I haven't played Rimworld seriously in years)
Quote from: Polder on June 26, 2018, 03:27:24 AM
(I haven't played Rimworld seriously in years)
I respectfully suggest you try a non-insanely-difficult scenario in that case :)
I preferred the previous difficulty names over the new ones, which are a bit bland. However, I can understand how some people would prefer simpler terms instead. Either way, it doesn't affect me much in terms of gameplay. I do want to comment on how much I'm loving most of the new changes in 1.0. I bought a male and female panther from a Shaman Merchant that dropped by thinking I'll just train them to release since they previously couldn't rescue/haul in b18. I was pretty happy when I noticed they can now be trained to do both! Silver well spent. :D
Quote from: Dargaron on June 25, 2018, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: Aerial on June 25, 2018, 07:30:55 PM
Is this a bug or intended? A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood. The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that. The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.
Screenshot attached.
Did he/she have the new Gourmand trait? IIRC, it causes occasional Pigging Out Mental Breaks even when a Pawn in content, the same way that Chemical Fascination causes pawns to go on Drug Binges.
She's a gourmand, so that explains it. Thanks for the info.
I think it should be removed, though. The Gourmand already has an increased hunger rate. It feels pretty unfair from a gameplay perspective because it's something I can't really control except by refusing Gourmands into my colony.
At the very least, the mood tooltip needs to be updated with the exception so players aren't turned off by what appears to be buggy behavior.
Quote from: Aerial on June 26, 2018, 03:51:37 AM
I think it should be removed, though. The Gourmand already has an increased hunger rate. It feels pretty unfair from a gameplay perspective because it's something I can't really control except by refusing Gourmands into my colony.
At the very least, the mood tooltip needs to be updated with the exception so players aren't turned off by what appears to be buggy behavior.
Well, "ban them from your colony" is pretty much the go-to advice for pyromaniacs, so it doesn't seem amiss here. Although I think that points out a more general problem, and wouldn't be averse to it changing.
What I
would like is for trait-related mental breaks to be called out in the letter you get informing you when they strike. That way the player knows that they didn't do anything "wrong" (except allow a pyromaniac/chemical fan/gourmand into their colony) to prompt the break, unlike mood-related mental breaks.
Quote from: Aerial on June 26, 2018, 03:51:37 AM
Quote from: Dargaron on June 25, 2018, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: Aerial on June 25, 2018, 07:30:55 PM
Is this a bug or intended? A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood. The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that. The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.
Screenshot attached.
Did he/she have the new Gourmand trait? IIRC, it causes occasional Pigging Out Mental Breaks even when a Pawn in content, the same way that Chemical Fascination causes pawns to go on Drug Binges.
She's a gourmand, so that explains it. Thanks for the info.
I think it should be removed, though. The Gourmand already has an increased hunger rate. It feels pretty unfair from a gameplay perspective because it's something I can't really control except by refusing Gourmands into my colony.
At the very least, the mood tooltip needs to be updated with the exception so players aren't turned off by what appears to be buggy behavior.
I think it works the same with pyros, which is why I never recruit such pawns into my colony. I agree with you and I would welcome a change.
Quote from: jamaicancastle on June 26, 2018, 04:05:12 AM
What I would like is for trait-related mental breaks to be called out in the letter you get informing you when they strike. That way the player knows that they didn't do anything "wrong" (except allow a pyromaniac/chemical fan/gourmand into their colony) to prompt the break, unlike mood-related mental breaks.
Good point, and I agree that would be a reasonable solution.
Quote from: Serina on June 26, 2018, 03:35:41 AM
I preferred the previous difficulty names over the new ones, which are a bit bland. However, I can understand how some people would prefer simpler terms instead. Either way, it doesn't affect me much in terms of gameplay. I do want to comment on how much I'm loving most of the new changes in 1.0. I bought a male and female panther from a Shaman Merchant that dropped by thinking I'll just train them to release since they previously couldn't rescue/haul in b18. I was pretty happy when I noticed they can now be trained to do both! Silver well spent. :D
Wait... When did he allow Panthers to haul?! And what other animals had changes like this? Panthers are my fav!
I would love to see more uses for animals... I currently only use combat animals in "safe" situations(Chasing down fleeing terrorists, engaging targets that wont put them in line of fire, or are weakened) or in emergencies, so they dont get hurt. Taming is absolutely my favorite part of the game. Though the unique feel of combat is pretty close too.
Especially having unique uses for specific animals.. Like beavers cutting wood for you, rams and rhinos charging, arming monkeys with knives, dare i say... Mounts? ;D
And i know ill get a lot of heat for it.. But putting bombs on animals to remote detonate when they get close to hostiles?
Honestly, if i had it my way, i would essentially add a lot of things from ARK to spruce up animals more and give them unique uses and traits! Like turtles armor or cobras toxic buildup, some of the few with a unique trait currently.
And a greater variety of animals too!! The more the merrier. But i know thats a lot to ask, and balance.
Quote from: Scavenger on June 26, 2018, 04:28:14 AM
Quote from: Serina on June 26, 2018, 03:35:41 AM
I preferred the previous difficulty names over the new ones, which are a bit bland. However, I can understand how some people would prefer simpler terms instead. Either way, it doesn't affect me much in terms of gameplay. I do want to comment on how much I'm loving most of the new changes in 1.0. I bought a male and female panther from a Shaman Merchant that dropped by thinking I'll just train them to release since they previously couldn't rescue/haul in b18. I was pretty happy when I noticed they can now be trained to do both! Silver well spent. :D
Wait... When did he allow Panthers to haul?! And what other animals had changes like this? Panthers are my fav!
Yes! I was so excited when I found out. Panthers are so cute! Unfortunately my female panther's life was short lived.
Trained her to release and a poison ship dropped down that had a scyther and two centipedes.
Right before the chaos: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423014453
Rip Nala, she didn't even get to make babies: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423014358
Anyway, panthers have 80% wildness and training decay interval of 7 days. If panthers can now rescue and haul, maybe cougars as well? I'm not sure, I've only had warg, boomalope, muffalo, timber wolf and polar bear so far in 1.0.
Edit: Mounts would be amazing ^.^ I've seen a mod for it on steam, but never tried it.
I dislike the changes in text, example is hot -> sweaty etc, instead of a nice, clean message.
Sorry, hot is hot. Sweaty is what, hot and wet? Is this supposed to show discomfort? The only discomfort is for the player. New texts not very rimworldish.
Also really dislike the new joy from work and joy in general, either the pawn is working on one assignment or he is somewhat useless and prone to breaking, and the joy gain is on/off. More discomfort to play as one wishes.
Quote from: Julia on June 26, 2018, 04:49:38 AM
I dislike the changes in text, example is hot -> sweaty etc, instead of a nice, clean message.
Sorry, hot is hot. Sweaty is what, hot and wet? Is this supposed to show discomfort? The only discomfort is for the player. New texts not very rimworldish.
Also really dislike the new joy from work and joy in general, either the pawn is working on one assignment or he is somewhat useless and prone to breaking, and the joy gain is on/off. More discomfort to play as one wishes.
Ya! I am hesitant to use any mods.. I have to be sure they are balanced and dont make the game easier. Just QoL and things i think the game needs. Mounts would be amazing, but damn hard to balance.
I think cougars and panthers were identical in all but color. While the Lynx is just a fluffier smaller version :P Like Wargs and Labs. I would think Lynx should be able to haul too, just not as much. I really hope panthers hauling isn't a bug! I have wanted it ever since i tamed one. I was really hoping for more animal changes than we got. I have yet to encounter a Warg, muffalo, or bear so far, but i cant wait.
And i love the Simba and Nala! You are damn lucky to find both on 1 trader! :P The game really needs hyenas, Perfect pack predator for several biomes.
Surprised: No discussion yet about how the armor system has been completely redone with armor penetration, damage diminshment (from gunshot to bruise), etc.
Anyway, quick update going up. Changelog:
-----
Building watermills too close together now makes them less effective (water turbulence).
Adjust naked brutality description.
Reduced "soaking wet" duration and made it happen in rain as well as water.
Fix: Minor issues with time speed slowing in combat.
Autocannon turret is now significantly more powerful and somewhat more expensive.
Fix: Pawns who are incapable of hauling can still do opportunistic hauling jobs.
Multi-analyzer no longer requires advanced components. Plasteel is enough.
Buffed wind turbine power output 15%.
Insect meat is now priced lower than other meat.
Fix: Some text still uses the term "joy" instead of "recreation".
On that note Tynan, when I inspected some weapons of caravan guards, I was surprised to see the pump shotgun only having an AP of 5%, which is worse than even a machine pistol. Is this intentional?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 05:47:39 AM
On that note Tynan, when I inspected some weapons of caravan guards, I was surprised to see the pump shotgun only having an AP of 5%, which is worse than even a machine pistol. Is this intentional?
Yep.
Yeah, I was pretty lucky. The shaman merchant was actually selling two males and one female. I'm waiting for traders to sell polar bears since I'm trying my best to run my colony without alt + f4. lol. There's no point in playing permadeath if I'm just going to alt f4 through the bad stuff, although it's super tempting at times. It took me 17 days to tame a polar bear on my other save and he went manhunter quite a few times so definitely don't want to risk that on this save.
Ohh yeah so cougars can probably be trained to rescue/haul now too. I hope the new panther hauling isn't a bug either as they are large enough to definitely haul stuff around.
I have nothing to add regarding the new armor system because I honestly have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to combat. I hide behind walls, doors, pets and hope for the best. Would be an interesting discussion to read though, I could certainly learn more.
I think it is more to do with their intelligence and ability to drag things in their mouth, along with size. Big cats are smart!
I had a few scary run-ins with ostriches, trying to tame them was a nightmare haha. They seem like they would be great at hunting down fleeing enemies and separated hostiles with that speed and damage! But they go Manhunter like crazy.. which I can imagine is pretty realistic haha.
And no point doing permadeath if you are using alt F4:P I'm damn surprised I didn't end up losing anyone before I took a break while I waited for 1.0 to come out.
And that bruising mechanic sounds awesome! Just like using a Kevlar vest in real life. I would maybe even say a few broken ribs if you get hit by something hard enough! I didn't see the full details of that change to damage and armor, but melee could always use a little love also! That sounds like it could potentially give melee a few interesting uses with those mechanics.
It would be great if colonist could hold a melee weapon on their person along with a ranged, that way they could have the option to just switch to melee easily once the enemy gets close enough. Or possibly even a bayonet?
So much translation errors with this update.
The most difficult to fix.
Hopefully, backstories are finally came back !
Quote from: NeverPire on June 26, 2018, 06:06:40 AM
So much translation errors with this update.
The most difficult to fix.
Hopefully, backstories are finally came back !
Sorry about that, we changed a lot but it needed to be done. Thank you for the help!
I am really really liking current armor system. Though, i also really miss assault rifles firing quick 3 shot bursts. Can you consider adding old 3 weak shorts long range assault rifles as a separate weapon intended for taking down unarmored targets? Like a better version of machine pistols, with lower armor piercing value and better range.
Either way, good job on armor overhaul. Feels a lot more interesting to see it proc, than it was in alphas.
I did see a bit of a potential to abuse the removal of penalties to Armor and weapon effectiveness at lower durability. Now that there are no penalties, you can let your gear degrade to a very low percentage, to make your net worth far lower than it actually is and therefore make raids much weaker. Especially early game, even the reduced price doesn't matter that much when compared to staying alive. Such as on NB.
Quote from: Scavenger on June 26, 2018, 06:21:04 AM
to make your net worth far lower than it actually is and therefore make raids much weaker.
Wait, raids are based on net worth? Is that current, or reported? As in, how do the raiders magically know my colony is 'worth raiding'?
It should be based on visible net worth. If a trade caravan visits and sees a bunch of fancy stuff, that gets added to the raiding net worth. If visitors come and just see some ramshackle huts and a hole in a mountain, that shouldn't be worth raiding much at all.
Maybe that last recruit of yours that ran into your base being chase by Raiders, was actually a spy!
Maybe I'm misunderstanding mechanics. Why did you remove that penalty Tynan? It also makes the weapons you get from Raiders far more valuable to you now. And you get quite a lot of them! I rather liked that they were situationally a good addition to Your Arsenal, but now, functionally, aren't they all much stronger? Only being weaker based on build quality.
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 05:39:38 AM
Multi-analyzer no longer requires advanced components. Plasteel is enough.
NOOOOOOOO! :(
That was so nice, so well-placed requirement. Many high-end techs depend on the analyzer, so it was a great addition to both challenge and story. Colonists should have actually achieved something, proved that they are ready for the late game.
Yeah, adv.comp. is still needed for a Fabrication, but it does nothing with techs unlocked by the analyzer.
Did some testing on how quality stuff works for furniture assembly. A legendary master in Construction skill failed to a produce a single legendary bed in 200 attempts. He did dish out about 10 masterworks, but not a single legendary.
A conclusion i came to:
1) Other than beds and furniture we can forget about having anything masterwork, as resource costs in anything other than wood make it wasteful and pointless - stat difference between regular excellent stuff and masterwork just isn't nearly worth the time and resources. Legendary master builder (lvl 20) only has about 4-5% chance to produce a masterwork.
Stats comparison: masterwork bed vs. excellent
Immunity gain: 110% vs. 110%
Rest effectiveness: 125% vs. 114%
Surgery success chance: 69% vs 61%
2) Inspiration just gives your +2 quality levels once. So first you have to win one lottery and get exactly creativity inspiration, second lottery - get it on exactly your best builder. And third lottery - get at least excellent quality item, so it gets +2 and becomes legendary. And it works only once, so if you failed 3rd lottery - you're back to step one. Considering that first you need to make those whiny aristocratic frontier-hobos ultrahappy - good luck with that. I think player has better chance of pulling off a jack pot at a casino.
Verdict: I guess this idea goes quite well with "memorable storytelling" route RW is going. It makes legendary items truly legendary rare and you probably won't forget obtaining such a thing anytime soon. As you either need to be a god of random, or a master tactician to pull off a tough fight and get it as a quest reward. On one hand, I can't say i am fond of this change, since compared to B18 its a massive nerf to having lvl 20 crafters trained. On the other hand it makes colonists more expendable, since you don't really need to fear losing that god-like builder anymore - a pawn of skill level 10 can produce those excellent items and thats optimal.
I wonder if those quality chances can be tweaked via xml? If they are, i would really like to know where to look.
P.S. Thank god, multi-analyzer no longer needs adv. components, since you have to rely on luck to get those prior to fabrication. Never did dig progression locked by RNG.
Shouldn't the workLeft for smoothing stone walls (and floors if possible) be stored in the Things themselves rather than the JobDrivers? It seems odd that interrupting somebody's smoothing job just magically reverts all of that person's progress on smoothing stone stuff.
Quote from: FlameBlood on June 26, 2018, 06:39:32 AM
That was so nice, so well-placed requirement. Many high-end techs depend on the analyzer, so it was a great addition to both challenge and story. Colonists should have actually achieved something, proved that they are ready for the late game.
Yeah, adv.comp. is still needed for a Fabrication, but it does nothing with techs unlocked by the analyzer.
There were too much RNG needed to get them. An opening of an ancient danger room could be enough to find them (that's the case in my current game) or in the opposite you could just stay stucked due to the lack of advanced components. I prefer the new recipe.
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:24:55 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
You need to implement the difficulty unlock system. A new player shall at least finish the tutorial first in other to be able to play the other scenarios. A new player shall start with Peaceful and win it three times in other to get Base Builder. Then again, win three Base Builder difficulty games to unlock Some Challenge and so on... Same with biomes, gradual progression.
Steam only tells a player how many hours someone has played. I wish Steam could also record how many hours a player has dedicated to each difficulty level... then people like me could print screen a screenshot to show to the world how many hours we played on the basic levels...BEFORE jumping to the higher difficulties. Remember that turtle always wins over rabbit. It's a pity there's no way I can show that to everybody else as example myself.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:24:55 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
You need to implement the difficulty unlock system. A new player shall at least finish the tutorial first in other to be able to play the other scenarios. A new player shall start with Peaceful and win it three times in other to get Base Builder. Then again, win three Base Builder difficulty games to unlock Some Challenge and so on... Same with biomes, gradual progression.
Steam only tells a player how many hours someone has played. I wish Steam could also record how many hours a player has dedicated to each difficulty level... then people like me could print screen a screenshot to show to the world how many hours we played on the basic levels...BEFORE jumping to the higher difficulties. Remember that turtle always wins over rabbit. It's a pity there's no way I can show that to everybody else as example myself.
That is a terrible idea. Some new players might have seen gameplay of it, a lot of it perhaphs, or are just naturally skilled players and find easier difficulties straight up boring.
Eh, i'm sidetracking from the topic... Sorry, won't do that again.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
You need to implement the difficulty unlock system. A new player shall at least finish the tutorial first in other to be able to play the other scenarios. A new player shall start with Peaceful and win it three times in other to get Base Builder. Then again, win three Base Builder difficulty games to unlock Some Challenge and so on... Same with biomes, gradual progression.
I already see a massive problem this can cause. You do know, not everyone plays to win right? I for one don't even wanna go for shipping off of planet. I like playing to play. To see how long i will last and what will ruin me in the long run. Enforced playing difficulty order isn't a right solution for games such as this one.
Quote from: Adamiks on June 26, 2018, 07:46:25 AM
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 07:42:29 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:24:55 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
You need to implement the difficulty unlock system. A new player shall at least finish the tutorial first in other to be able to play the other scenarios. A new player shall start with Peaceful and win it three times in other to get Base Builder. Then again, win three Base Builder difficulty games to unlock Some Challenge and so on... Same with biomes, gradual progression.
Steam only tells a player how many hours someone has played. I wish Steam could also record how many hours a player has dedicated to each difficulty level... then people like me could print screen a screenshot to show to the world how many hours we played on the basic levels...BEFORE jumping to the higher difficulties. Remember that turtle always wins over rabbit. It's a pity there's no way I can show that to everybody else as example myself.
That is a terrible idea. Some new players might have seen gameplay of it, a lot of it perhaphs, or are just naturally skilled players and find easier difficulties straight up boring.
Eh, i'm sidetracking from the topic... Sorry, won't do that again.
I agree. New players can decide for themselves if they wish to lower the difficulty, it shouldn't be mandatory to play a specific difficulty/map first. Also, hours played in a game means little compared to the skill of the player and their understanding of game mechanics. Some people are naturals, while others may take a bit more time than others. Some people also enjoy digital suffering and enjoy playing on harder difficulties even if they're new in order to challenge themselves. It really just depends on the person.
"This scenario is only for the most masochistic and\or skilled. It is unfair." is what i would have as the difficulty text for Naked Brutality :P.
Requires a ton of game knowledge in order to survive.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 07:34:53 AM
Shouldn't the workLeft for smoothing stone walls (and floors if possible) be stored in the Things themselves rather than the JobDrivers? It seems odd that interrupting somebody's smoothing job just magically reverts all of that person's progress on smoothing stone stuff.
Terrain doesn't have Things or a class instance in general to store this data, it's just the terrainGrid. It was the same problem in earlier versions. Now with smoothing walls it would be possible for the walls to store the data in the Thing but still not for terrain.
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:44:34 AM
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 26, 2018, 02:32:15 AM
I mean... you've already warned that it's extremely difficult. Do you really need to blatantly point it out further?
People keep bringing up cases where they died because of some random event that seemed near-unavoidable.
I think this is fine, given what the scenario is. However, some players may perceive this as illegitimate all the same and this will generate player anger.
Label it appropriately, but PLEASE keep it intact!
This is similar to scenarios I was setting up, I'd not even mind a bit less research known. Not losing all research perhaps, but of course I can prob change the scenario or make that a mod if you don't want to mess with that.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 26, 2018, 07:05:13 AM
P.S. Thank god, multi-analyzer no longer needs adv. components, since you have to rely on luck to get those prior to fabrication. Never did dig progression locked by RNG.
Quote from: NeverPire on June 26, 2018, 07:35:06 AM
There were too much RNG needed to get them. An opening of an ancient danger room could be enough to find them (that's the case in my current game) or in the opposite you could just stay stucked due to the lack of advanced components. I prefer the new recipe.
Fair enough. But guaranteed adv.comp. in ancient shrine will mitigate that.
But that's just my opinion.
Regarding "legendary", I think when there's an issue it's because people import assumptions from other games. In every RPG you always end up decked out in all "epic", "legendary" loot etc. This isn't RimWorld. I'm going with the actual meaning of the words "masterwork" and "legendary". Specifically, if something is going to be legendary it has to be so exceptional that people tell stories about it for years and years. Most of us never experience such a thing; in a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...
The same goes for skill levels. Player complain about how it's impractical to "max out" skills on their characters. I'm just like, dude, have you ever even met a single person who you could say was "maxed out" on any skill at all? Probably not, and most of us never will. When the description says something like "system-class master" it's describing something most people will never encounter, by design.
So you don't "max" and "legendary" and "epic" things in real life, which is how I want it in RW, because it leaves open space for truly exceptional things to happen instead of cheapening them by ensuring them in every game.
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on June 26, 2018, 08:14:55 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:44:34 AM
Quote from: ReZpawner on June 26, 2018, 02:32:15 AM
I mean... you've already warned that it's extremely difficult. Do you really need to blatantly point it out further?
People keep bringing up cases where they died because of some random event that seemed near-unavoidable.
I think this is fine, given what the scenario is. However, some players may perceive this as illegitimate all the same and this will generate player anger.
Label it appropriately, but PLEASE keep it intact!
This is similar to scenarios I was setting up, I'd not even mind a bit less research known. Not losing all research perhaps, but of course I can prob change the scenario or make that a mod if you don't want to mess with that.
Not planning on nerfing Naked Brutality, don't worry.
The graphic representation isn't really "that" much important to me but, the steel image of square plates made more sense to me than just the rock type which I see was reverted but never mind to me. I do however find it awkward the representation of silver.
Silver is the game currency right? Now imagine yourself as a RW pawn in real life, would it really be practical to count "Stones"? Make silver look like casino chips at least, you know, the rectangular ones if not coins. How do you carry 1k in rocks?
Some feedback after a couple of playthroughs
The new recreation system feels too overtuned, colonists are spending hours and hours switching between joy sources. It feels like i need to make a disneyland for them to start working. They ignore incapacitated colonists for the sake of joy. They even go back to joy even at 90%.
This new system would be okay for colonists under age of 15.
You are a 50 year old castaway sitting alone on unknown planet?
Better play the shit out of them horseshoes for the next 10h.
And another thing, were centipedes buffed?
Had mechanoid raid, 3 minigun centipedes. Ally caravan pops at the same time. I think 'cool they will kill them for me'. Caravan got anihilated. Then 3 almost unscratched centipedes vs my 5 colonists with bolt action rifles/shotguns. Colonists behind sandbags got shred to pieces. For sure old miniguns werent that accurate. Colonists killed one mechanoid and mechanoids killed all colonists.
If you're fighting 3 centipedes with bolt-action rifles something has gone very wrong somewhere.
Quote from: lwki on June 26, 2018, 08:34:44 AM
You are a 50 year old castaway sitting alone on unknown planet?
Better play the shit out of them horseshoes for the next 10h.
Shush Rachel! I don't care that you're sick from malaria and your ninth and eleventh ribs are gone and your arm is infected after that darn mad squirrel! I have a game of chess to play! YES WITH MYSELF, RACHEL, AND I AM GOING TO ENJOY IT
Damn women... Always interrupting me. Ah, so where were we? Right, right. I knocked out my horse, it's my move now.
I just loaded the latest build, and my game had just overcome a Toxic Fallout, so there's lots of bones here... Honestly, I don't like the new images. I liked much more the bigger squeletons. Why? Because I love playing Ice Sheet, in that biome, tribals like the Thule People used whale bones as roof tops, so the older representations we had made fair representation of real life.
Not to mention that Ice Sheet tribes relied heavily on...FISHING!
But talking about the new bone images... I prefer the older ones...
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 08:32:38 AM
The graphic representation isn't really "that" much important to me but, the steel image of square plates made more sense to me than just the rock type which I see was reverted but never mind to me. I do however find it awkward the representation of silver.
Textures are minor to me too. Steel looks good to me either way but the silver is awkward.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 26, 2018, 07:48:38 AM
I already see a massive problem this can cause. You do know, not everyone plays to win right? I for one don't even wanna go for shipping off of planet. I like playing to play. To see how long i will last and what will ruin me in the long run. Enforced playing difficulty order isn't a right solution for games such as this one.
EXACTLY
Has cleanness and how pawns produce dirty changed? Loaded a save on the last version and now everything is really dirty, can't clean it as fast as it becomes dirty and even when I clean the whole room manually it still says it is dirty even if there is just one hospital bed and the floor is made from silver.
EDIT: It seems there was some dirty under the bed and I could select it.
EDIT2: One suggestion would be to have an option to 'clean the room', so the pawn won't stop until the room is really clean, it would even be better if their work would prioritize that, instead of cleaning single patches of dirty, try to clean a room and then move to another.
Please, Tynan, don't forget about us low vision folks. Please allow us to mine an entire vein rather than having to spend too long with too much of a headache finding each individual tile... or make them easier to discern (steel and granite are particularly close together.)
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 08:24:39 AMin a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...
If you do you'll pay no more mind to it than any other piece of furniture or sculpture or whatever you make, because having one of such an item is reasonably insignificant in it's bonuses and effects.
It means nothing in terms of real game effects and just becomes a label you see sometimes, incredibly rarely.
It dangles like a carrot infront of every player, knowing it's there, it's possible - but when they get it, the
one Legendary item they finally craft or get, what do they get?
A label, mostly. Maybe they can have one less piece of furniture in their rec room now, since the beauty is offset.
Decking out the entire colony with legendary beds is an event the colony specifically sets out to do. It takes days, and a ton of rebuilds, that builder works tirelessly to produce their best. Bedrooms are a mess, there's beds in the hallways and scrap wood everywhere. I'm much less likely to forget this, and I feel a lot more accomplishment for it, than if I got lucky on the rolls and managed to eek one out some day - promptly not knowing which pawn to give it to.
Having a crafter who practiced their craft for most of their life rightfully know their sh**, and create exceptional pieces of furniture for the entire colony? now that's interesting and meaningful. You'll remember that crafter, you'll be sad when you have to train up a new one (or you'll prepare an apprentice in advance).
Having one they're-currently-our-best crafter get lucky with an inspiration someday and create one legendary piece of furniture?
Eh, give it to Joe Shmuck, he's usually a bit sad, or sell it, it's worth a pretty penny.
Even if the bonus wasn't negligible enough that you'd need to outfit your entire colony with the item to make an impact, I always try to get rid of such one-shot items, one-use items, that one super crafted item. I'll be selling Legendaries frankly. I want a colony that doesn't depend on a random item I can't replace - the best way to ensure that, is to never use it in the first place.
I'm having trouble with the "Toggle visibility of roofs" since placing new structures are green and the already built roofs are also colored green, it makes it hard to place columns on rooms that have roof opening due to terrain obstructions, marsh soil, water... and I'm currently at night with half my colonists with Fibrous Mechanites... so don't ask me to wait until daylight for clarity.
I have no issues with the Legendary items stuff. I've got a masterwork end table, bed, charge lance, and plasteel plate armor. Masterwork is fine for me. Legendary should be well, legendary as Tynan puts it.
As for the new armor system, I noticed that instead of deflection regarding my plated melee fighters, most of it translated to bruises and such. I suppose this is the point of the whole balance, but now I barely see any deflection! Surely my power armored soldier should have deflected some bullets. Bruises, that makes sense for flak vests. But short of a charge lance, a raider's dinky machine pistol should bounced a good chunk of the rounds off.
Difficulty: Cassandra Rough. +1 for the old names. It gave flavour, and that's fine. People learned what "rough" meant just fine before.
Just noticed this now, I got plague and the letter told me so that it affected one colonist.
Later I noticed one of my huskies was not moving from the rest spot, it got plague as well, it would be nice if the letter informed affected animals.
Just noticed this new problem:
Characters are now self-overdriving my own player command "Rest until healed", I got Lercha, both with Fibrous Mechanites & Malaria, he is 48 years old and my main builder, I watching him like a pro-stalker. He is also one of my medics, he just got up to try to patch up another colonists...this is worst than auto-undraft. Which still wasn't completely removed from the game...
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 09:25:10 AM
Just noticed this new problem:
Characters are now self-overdriving my own player command "Rest until healed"
Good luck. Most of the commands ordered through right click isn't working out for me.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 09:25:10 AM
Just noticed this new problem:
Characters are now self-overdriving my own player command "Rest until healed", I got Lercha, both with Fibrous Mechanites & Malaria, he is 48 years old and my main builder, I watching him like a pro-stalker. He is also one of my medics, he just got up to try to patch up another colonists...this is worst than auto-undraft. Which still wasn't completely removed from the game...
My plague guy stayed at bed all time, my rescued from a pod guy kept getting up all the time.
Definitely against a difficulty curve. I've never played below intense, have spent almost all of my time on extreme and wouldn't have it any other way. I know at least one other player who followed the same progression.
I don't like outcomes purely RNG determinant as a design concept, player agency is crucial to games like this. That said, after the food poisoning change there are tools in the game right now which allow tribal tech NB to survive nearly every possible sequence...the biggest threat is initial mood management. Once the mechanics themselves stabilize (pawn movement, AI reactions, etc) I expect there will be plenty of players out there who can survive NB pretty reliably on extreme.
QuoteIf you're fighting 3 centipedes with bolt-action rifles something has gone very wrong somewhere.
Bolt action has 37 range, 5 more than miniguns (which take ages to wind up) and 10 more than inferno cannons/heavy charge blasters. Centipedes aren't fast enough to close on that.
Once you've cleared out scythers/lancers, how is this not a solid choice for kiting centipedes? Unless you want to spam door peek and kill them with stuff like revolvers (or whatever has armor pen now, need to test newest updates once I can), have a few snipers on hand, or can isolate them with EMP + maces/clubs I can't think of a more straightforward way to kill them than simply shooting them from out of their range until they die.
...which explains why is it that you have basic level problems to the point that you look like a new player...
Just a quick thought: Shouldn't prioritising snow clearing actually prioritise all designated cells in an area in a similar fashion to how prioritising cleaning cleans other nearby dirty cells?
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 10:32:46 AM
...which explains why is it that you have basic level problems to the point that you look like a new player...
Quoted statement doesn't indicate coherent rationale - what "basic level problems" justify locking players out of high difficulties arbitrarily?
Most of my complaints have been about one of two things:
- Inconsistency in implementation
- Lack of agency in rare cases (Most events in Rimworld have solid agency, and it has on average gotten better with time)
Some of these have been shared by others players and already addressed as 1.0 continues to be updated.
QuoteJust a quick thought: Shouldn't prioritising snow clearing actually prioritise all designated cells in an area in a similar fashion to how prioritising cleaning cleans other nearby dirty cells?
Manual cleaning is a bit of a problem in 1.0 too. I can see that the room impressiveness is down. I can turn on beauty and see exactly where the dirt is. However when I try to right-click someone with cleaning allowed to clean it the game won't show "clean dirt" consistently in the drop down menu. Usually this is because the dirt is under a bed or other piece of furniture. Happens in a doorway sometimes too.
Considering this is important for both tend quality and cooking it's one of those times you really need the right click menu to display it.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 10:55:54 AM
Just a quick thought: Shouldn't prioritising snow clearing actually prioritise all designated cells in an area in a similar fashion to how prioritising cleaning cleans other nearby dirty cells?
Technically speaking, the game is incorrect. When you "remove" snow, you are actually piling it up elsewhere. So if applied to the game "correctly" we should have something like a "small hill of snow" at a place designated by the player, and pawns would be "hauling" the snow there. Like making snow "stones"...
...and that would lead us to...igloo building in Ice Sheet!!! Oh ... I'm touching myself now...
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 10:32:46 AM
...which explains why is it that you have basic level problems to the point that you look like a new player...
Kenji just know if you keep being overly hostile to folks this will be your third ban, and that carries a cozy month or so. You need to chill, everyone is invited to play how they please at any skill level.
I think tynan can do without the "lol ur n00b" comments in this thread xD 'Sides I've totally taken out two centipedes with survival rifles. 3 is a bit much, though >.>
Anyways, going to test out the armor/general combat on randy intense, no security buildings. Probably going to die horribly xD
Personally I think that the the difficulty tune up is and was necessary, specially at very hard/ extreme.
The armor penetration/reduction is a nice addition to that, Im still digging into that but overall feels like is balanced. The only issue that Im seeing is how useless are some weapons with that new system (grenades for example)
And I also like the other names better for difficulty rather than the usual hard, very hard.
On another note the reason why I always ask if its possible to throw an "endless mode " option when you launch "finish" the game to jump to another world, is because it would be real interesting specially now with this new armor / difficulty spike to have some kind of new game+
With scaled enemies perhaps a randomly generated more aggressive planet and so on
Quote from: Greep on June 26, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
Anyways, going to test out the armor/general combat on randy intense, no security buildings. Probably going to die horribly xD
Hoping someone will test the autocannons now too!
I did! It was not a thorough test, though. I can maybe do that later.
"
Game #2: Decided to try out the new autocannons, went in with a strategy of just beelining them. They're terrible. A turret and a goliath 500 steel 6 component autocannon... failed to kill a single person in a 5 person early game raid against pistols. Having put everything into the strategy, it failed miserably.
It looks like the intention is that these aren't really upgrades so much as turrets you put in back of your main line of turrets for a double amount of firepower. They'd be pretty terrible at that too tbh. I suggest either halving their cost, doubling their damage, or doubling their range, making them either super expensive sniper turrets or actually effective at their original goal. In actual gameplay, turrets usually have a wall between them to bunch them up and prevent explosions, so I'm not sure how these special turrets would perform even as a backline of turrets, though. If you spread out your turrets instead of block the back ones' LOS, you'll probably just end up with the same amount of firepower."
QuoteThe armor penetration/reduction is a nice addition to that, Im still digging into that but overall feels like is balanced. The only issue that Im seeing is how useless are some weapons with that new system (grenades for example)
I have a lot of theorycraft I really want to test out in practice and am not sure I can manage to test it all in the next few days. What's the issue with grenades? Not enough armor pen? Maybe they could deal sharp (shrapnel) and blunt (concussion) damage, mostly the latter?
Wiki of course can't keep up with 1.0 changes so it's hard to visualize the specifics on how weapons interact with armor w/o trying it out. By the sound some weapons will basically be dealing no damage to end game armor. That's an interesting scenario, makes me wonder how stuff in raider's hands scales to it too.
Another option would be to perhaps give autocannons a higher per-tile accuracy than mini-turrets (maybe 97% instead of 96%), since it isn't implied to my knowledge that autocannons have the same sort of potato AI that mini-turrets do. On the other hand, that could make them quite OP since 97% is a significant step up from 96%.
Also, isn't the autopistol almost all-round inferior to the revolver at this point, despite being the higher-tech gun? It has a slightly higher base DPS, true, but it has inferior range, is unable to stagger people unlike the revolver, and also has a worse DPS at longer distances. Not to forget the worse AP makes them less viable too.
Also, a bit of theorycraft, but with the linear nature of the armour system, isn't armour piercing's role as it stands fairly minor, with perhaps the exception of comparing extremes (e.g. machine pistol/shotgun vs charge lance/autocannon).
Greep: I think he means the autocannons which have been changed since you originally posted that.
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 05:39:38 AM
Autocannon turret is now significantly more powerful and somewhat more expensive.
"Reduced "soaking wet" duration and made it happen in rain as well as water."
I don't think he plays the game anymore outside of the developer mode, he doesn't understand ^^
Let's craft umbrellas, and equip them instead of weapons. And when it rains, just block all doors and keep your pawns indoors for the next 2 minutes so they don't get a debuff. Don't worry it's just another useless micromanagement that should not be in the game. Or just get a free -mood because why not.
Quote from: Ramsis on June 26, 2018, 11:18:41 AM
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 10:32:46 AM
...which explains why is it that you have basic level problems to the point that you look like a new player...
Kenji just know if you keep being overly hostile to folks this will be your third ban, and that carries a cozy month or so. You need to chill, everyone is invited to play how they please at any skill level.
Don't worry, Version 1.0 didn't bring me anything new...and half a year wait was too long for little, I'm already buying other games and soon you won't see me again anyways.
Quote from: Greep on June 26, 2018, 11:34:26 AM
~
Please don't just copy paste your old posts; the balance changed since then which is why I'm looking for play reports.
Put me on the list of folks who've killed (2) Centipedes with (2) Bolt-Action Rifles: admittedly, they were Good Bolt-Actions, one of which was in the hands of a skill-16 shooter. But hey, you go to war with the army you have.
Just a note: eye injuries still cause the "disfigured" social malus, even though they're treatable now. Not sure if bugged or WAD (since there's probably a chance of scarring if they aren't treated well enough, in which case, the malus makes sense).
Question: Do happier pawns play better together? I finally recruited Bat to my colony (literally trained social up from 2 to 10 with no passion), and all that my pawns did was chitchat. I looked in dev mode and found that she had a 0.10% chance per interaction for a Deep Talk w/ my primary colonist. If not, would it be too much of a pain to make social interaction chance influenced by mood? E.g. the Hard Worker can put up with the Lazy pawns if everyone's fed and entertained, but if the colony hits a serious rough patch, you just won a free subscription to "Social Fighting Monthly."
The latest build you posted this morning seems to be broken on Mac
I support reverting the difficulty levels to their previous terms.
I support the current rarity of Masterwork and Legendary qualities.
I think the soaking wet debuff in rain is fine, and it makes jungle biomes tougher, which I like. But I do think a Pluviophile/Hydrophile trait is in order though that gets a mood buff from being wet instead of a penalty.
Just a quick question @Yoshida
"* 50% Killbox players
* 80% Casual players (with Over Powered Mods)"
Do you mean 80% of 50% or 50% of that 80% or 50% of the remaining 20% (making 90% of the player base casuals % killboxers, HMMM) or 80% of that 50%
Or is it just 130%..
I'm trying out Naked Brutality on extreme and not randomizing colonists + random landing, failed 2 times so far, the struggle is fun though
First thing that stands out to me, though, is that steel looks more like bags of something rather than steel plates, a really minor thing, but the old one was a lot better and clearer imo
Overall, the balance has shifted far too much towards pure theorycrafting in this thread. So I'm instituting a temporary moratorium on theorycrafting here. Any posts not related to some specific and up-to-date play experience will be removed.
We'll see how this plays out, and we can let the theorizing back in slowly later. But at the moment it's simply not useful since it's almost always based on very false assumptions.
Thank you in advance to anyone who posts a play story or specific experience-based feedback.
When a centipede equipped with an inferono cannon drops, you will see hell. It does not die horribly. Even if the colonist has enough firepower with the EMP, it is strong enough to make it into the fire.
I had a brick wall and a fire extinguisher, but all the warehouses burned.
Those at 1.0 against b18 were more than twice as strong.
I hate them.
I went through the effort of researching the entire path towards autocannons and then building one and was terribly disappointed. I was fighting a 6 man raid, 4 of them were with guns and so didn't ever go past the minimum range, meaning that the autocannon could shoot them at all times. During the fight it shot 45 shots and hit 1 shot which didn't have any impact on the battle. Afterwards it needed 200+ steel to reload despite not being useful at all. I am just absolutely done with autocannons forever unless something is changed.
Still trucking on armored warrior fort:
One thing that definitely needs to change is the effort needed to research plate mail. Going head on to fight the enemy and take hits without cheesing is already reckless, so if someone wants to go that route it should be accessible.
Right now, with a 9 researcher with industrious trait going full time in a clean lab, I was not able to get plate researched until day 10. This also delaying general research because I'm needing to skip microelectronics to get there. And I still need machining to research helmets xD So as it stands, the second raid, the first real one, you may not even have been able to build any armor!
The actual material cost to build, 210 metal + 600 work, feels fine, though. Being able to have more than one heavy by the first real fight might be too good.
Will update as I go to battle :D
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 11:55:57 AM
Overall, the balance has shifted far too much towards pure theorycrafting in this thread. So I'm instituting a temporary moratorium on theorycrafting here. Any posts not related to some specific and up-to-date play experience will be removed.
We'll see how this plays out, and we can let the theorizing back in slowly later. But at the moment it's simply not useful since it's almost always based on very false assumptions.
Thank you in advance to anyone who posts a play story or specific experience-based feedback.
Countering against theocrafting, it is untrue that in less than a year's time Sieges will be bringing Snipers.
(https://i.imgur.com/n3kNqZh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/muJLlKJ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/WdQexyr.png)
People here like TheMeinTeam can come and make false statements and then "edit" them out when they realized they had no real back up in their comments before Ramsis see them.
But based on authentic experience, I tell you again, Sieges are not hard even in Extreme difficulty, and also notice, I had zero pets in combat as opposed to the other's response saying so.
Any tribal colony CAN beat a Siege with Great bows, the largest range the enemy had was "1" single Bold action rifle.
My impression about new armor system:
- It is not intuitive and I wasted more time on understanding it than I am ready to admit. Even "three-way roll armor system" forum post did not helped much at first and I had to return to it couple of times. The system itself seems very simple, so I blame it on explanation that could be made much better, especially in the game itself (ingame info made me more confused really).
- In general I liked it and how it affected my gameplay. It allowed some more brave moves w/o fear of losing my soldiers to extreme bleedings and blown out brains/hearts/livers.
- I liked how some weapons changed damage to more reasonable (IRL-comparable) values. I did not liked how assault rifles now shot slow two bullet bursts (it should be 1 shot or 3 shot burst - just pick one and stick with it).
- What is the design idea behind 50% blunt damage? Why not 33%, 25% or some variable? After some tests I feel like 50% is too much damage left.
And unrelated note - what's up with switching graphics on machine pistol and heavy SMG? I dont like it. Before I could imagine that "heavy SMG" is just some weird upscaled TEC-9'ish SMG with big bullets... now I straight know that they both fire 9mm pistol ammo and there is no explanation to why they deal 2x different damage. Current stats of heavy SMG is definitely not Uzi - it heavily damages my suspension of disbelief inside of this game. Those stats are for FN P90... can we has it? Please?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Question: Is there a way to remove/mitigate Soft Sand at the moment so that you can build on it? Or am I stuck with that space being unusable?
Quote from: Dargaron on June 26, 2018, 12:34:02 PM
Question: Is there a way to remove/mitigate Soft Sand at the moment so that you can build on it? Or am I stuck with that space being unusable?
Moisture pumps.
Quote from: Roolo on June 24, 2018, 03:42:28 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 24, 2018, 12:17:38 AM
Quote from: Nightinggale on June 23, 2018, 11:19:59 AM
Speaking of code modding, I have a question. Verse.ModContentPack.LoadDefs() has [DebuggerHidden] set. It seems to interfere with Harmony Transpiler, making it impossible to mod the method, only do stuff before/after or replace it entirely. While it turned out that this specific case doesn't prevent me from doing what I want to do, it does leave the question why it's even used? Wouldn't it make sense to search and remove all [DebuggerHidden] from the entire sourcecode to ensure the code to be as modder friendly as possible? None of us can predict which method will need to be modded a few months from now because the modder haven't gotten the idea yet. Because of this, it would make sense to unlock all of them.
Wherever [DebuggerHidden] is coming from, it's not defined in our source code. Kind of a mystery... and thoughts from anyone appreciated.
This happens for any iterator method (methods returning IEnumerable). I'm not sure why, but I can imagine the annotation is there to make clear that the method displayed has a hidden object inside it.
@Nightinggale The problem of not being able to patch the method is ...
Oops. Seems like it was an issue with my Harmony skills rather than RimWorld. Sorry about sending you searching your code for a problem, which isn't there :-[
I have to say I'm fairly impressed with your new patching code. I tried reimplementing B18 patching and it turns out that applying an empty sequence takes 5 times as long as a 1.0 patch, which changes construction cost of a building. I assume this has to do with the loop overhead (it can't really be anything else) and I have to admit that I did not predict that to be slower than xpath searching since xpath searching is the performance killer in B18. You truly came up with the right design for patching. Good job.
I have to admit I had a moment of feeling obsolete, though that's not really the case. I can still mod to patch faster than vanilla as well as all the other features, like patching profiling. It's just not as much of a notable performance boost as it was in B18.
And I will like to repeat that it's annoying having to pick 64 bit each time the game starts from steam. It would be nice to have it pick for you without the window. Factorio managed to pick 32/64 automatically without asking, meaning it should be possible to do so. Admittedly Factorio dropped 32 bit support due to technical (memory?) issues, but it was picking automatically at some point.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 26, 2018, 12:18:40 PM
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 11:55:57 AM
Overall, the balance has shifted far too much towards pure theorycrafting in this thread. So I'm instituting a temporary moratorium on theorycrafting here. Any posts not related to some specific and up-to-date play experience will be removed.
We'll see how this plays out, and we can let the theorizing back in slowly later. But at the moment it's simply not useful since it's almost always based on very false assumptions.
Thank you in advance to anyone who posts a play story or specific experience-based feedback.
Countering against theocrafting, it is untrue that in less than a year's time Sieges will be bringing Snipers.
(https://i.imgur.com/n3kNqZh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/muJLlKJ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/WdQexyr.png)
People here like TheMeinTeam can come and make false statements and then "edit" them out when they realized they had no real back up in their comments before Ramsis see them.
But based on authentic experience, I tell you again, Sieges are not hard even in Extreme difficulty, and also notice, I had zero pets in combat as opposed to the other's response saying so.
Any tribal colony CAN beat a Siege with Great bows, the largest range the enemy had was "1" single Bold action rifle.
in b18 month 3-4 siege would typically bring snipers/multiple BAR. Do you realize that sample size = 1 means very little?
Its possible that 1.0 changed raid point generation and scaling so it is less likely to happen. But you can make the point in much less hostile terms, and your single sample doesn't mean everyone else is a liar.
It is funny, you post with assumption that you are the best player around. And yet you have much to learn (as do must of us).
(Incidentally, I started playing extreme/tribal 3 weeks into playing this game, with some games taking zero sharp hits for several years, and I am awful player, don't bring it up as an end all be all argument. It certainly doesn't connote full game mastery and the right to bypass making actually good arguments.)
PS you take a siege that literally sets up at top 1% RNG position in range of your high cover and you claim all sieges are easy? Surely you have to be trolling right? Instead of bragging I would analyze whether I made any mistakes in taking a hit.
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 08:24:39 AM
Regarding "legendary", I think when there's an issue it's because people import assumptions from other games. In every RPG you always end up decked out in all "epic", "legendary" loot etc. This isn't RimWorld. I'm going with the actual meaning of the words "masterwork" and "legendary". Specifically, if something is going to be legendary it has to be so exceptional that people tell stories about it for years and years. Most of us never experience such a thing; in a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...
The same goes for skill levels. Player complain about how it's impractical to "max out" skills on their characters. I'm just like, dude, have you ever even met a single person who you could say was "maxed out" on any skill at all? Probably not, and most of us never will. When the description says something like "system-class master" it's describing something most people will never encounter, by design.
I can fully support this. Please keep it this way!
I'm playing only naked survivor for testing. I really like the start with an absolute minimum.
My last playthrough went pretty far (extreme, permadeath) until I got massacred by 4 scythers. It all started with 1 or 2 weak raids early, then I got a second colonist and the next raid was 4 pirates with knifes and pistols. Afterwards the raid sizes really went up, but I wouldn't say it is too difficult as it was manageable without a killbox or any gun research. Only the scyther raid was really strong and killed everyone. But I think I could have prepared better with a few traps so nothing that would really need more heavy adjustments.
Besides that the 4 scythers killed 6 colonists (greatbow, revolver, chain shotgun, maces) easily (despite door cheese), I can't give much feedback to the new armor system. I will do so later when I have some experience with it.
Watermills now are more fair. I started around 10 river maps and checked building spots and played two short games with them. Most of the time there are still enough building spots to get really good power and to even rely only on them. This limits the fun for me a bit, since it should be more like recreation where a good mix of sources is what to aim for, but I can live with the current way. It just takes the reason to research batteries and removes the threat of the battery shortcircuit event.
It does only make limited sense that the soaking wet mood is applied to naked colonists. Even more when it is 30°C and irl they would be more happy for the refreshment. It doesn't really affect gameplay anymore since it is only -3 mood for a few hours, but it feels weird, so I thought this is worth mentioning.
Anyway, great work so far! Also a lot of the code changes make modding life easier. Updating all the smaller changes in old mods is a necessary pain and it's fine for me. I heard complaints about it but as a programmer I understand the reasons behind it.
I recently had a drop pod raid, right in the middle of my underground base, Cassandra rough.
Was this prevalent in previous releases? I found it peculiar that the drop pods were able to penetrate through overhead mountains on some tiles.
Granted, there was a few rock roofs(thin) and maybe a couple of constructed roofs.
Not sure if this was intentional or already present in previous versions.
EDIT:
Apologies, I had already asked this question a few years ago.
(played in the last few hours, Cassandra, Rough, Crashland)
Regarding Autocannon turrets, it seems to me they are more effective than two miniturrets, both in range and stopping power.
I tested in both open fields and in a "killbox".
I haven't had that many tests yet, and mostly against few targets, so it may go the other way with massed opponents, but autocannon > 2 miniturrets. This makes sense with the cost ratio. I think I would use them in a more normal play-through, though I may have to figure out the best arrangement.
I like that the rain causing a debuff makes roofing exterior walkways and bunkers useful again, as I haven't bothered since darkness stopped being a defense buff.
I also quite like the reordering of the skills. It makes it easier to figure out how useful a pawn is.
Unlike animals, there is no stat on a "wild man" (or woman) that tells you how likely they are to become hostile on a failed taming attempt (Unless I missed it). It only tells you in the alert when you first mark them to tame.
First battle with plate result (vs 6 tribals):
On the one hand, my guy in plate mail, advanced helmet, and plasteel gladius got downed (not killed). On the other hand, he repelled the raid mostly by himself as I did not have the time to properly gear everyone else. It feels like it's working well.
The bruising mechanic feels like it needs some tuning. Even though he ended up with only 3 cuts, he ended up with 8 bruises, which is why he got downed fairly quickly. I think successful deflections should have a chance of no bruise, like maybe 50/50, possibly even as high as 2/3.
My theory is that the new armor hit graphics and sounds are sweet, especially on mechanoids. It's really clear when shots don't penetrate. The stagger on hit is a nice touch, too.
Was avoiding autocannons because of the min. range. Built one outside, with some sandbags around it for troops, and it got directly attacked by a small group of tribals. It fired 8 shots before the tribals could get in range. A total of 14 shots, of which 2 hit. One hit destroyed torso/heart and the other blew off a foot (probably overkill for shooting at humans). When the tribals took cover to use bows, they conveniently stayed outside of the autocannon's minimum range. Would be great on Scythers and snipers since the range is roughly the same.
First impression is that the range and the fire rate is pretty strong, and finally gives some reason to make outdoor combined arms strongpoints as opposed to killboxes. The steel cost is heavy, and autocannon turrets cannot be relocated, so I wouldn't consider building these until all my pawns are fully equipped. Maybe as a late-game way to reduce mechanoids at a distance, before you have to engage with pawns and start risking injuries. Definitely want to make combined autocannon/mini-turret/soldier fort later on. It would be nice if the min. range would be shown when going to build it.
e. Just noticed that mortar and mini turret have their own storage tab now :D
Hello friends!
I've been playing RimWorld for a while now, but only now did I get around to making a forum account.
I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.
I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.
I would also like to see map overlay which would show ground fertility, as distinguishing between fifty shades of brown is sometimes quite hard and difference between stony soil and soil (and the border between rich soil and soil) isn't always obvious.
Thank you for reading this and sorry if my english is bad, it is not my first language.
Quote from: Lanilor on June 26, 2018, 01:02:14 PM
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 08:24:39 AM
Regarding "legendary", I think when there's an issue it's because people import assumptions from other games. In every RPG you always end up decked out in all "epic", "legendary" loot etc. This isn't RimWorld. I'm going with the actual meaning of the words "masterwork" and "legendary". Specifically, if something is going to be legendary it has to be so exceptional that people tell stories about it for years and years. Most of us never experience such a thing; in a RimWorld game it's entirely reasonable to never encounter a legendary. But if you do...
The same goes for skill levels. Player complain about how it's impractical to "max out" skills on their characters. I'm just like, dude, have you ever even met a single person who you could say was "maxed out" on any skill at all? Probably not, and most of us never will. When the description says something like "system-class master" it's describing something most people will never encounter, by design.
I can fully support this. Please keep it this way!
Some people like it and some people don't. However everything mentioned by Tynan in this quote was modded in B18 and odds are that they will be in 1.0 as well (if not already without me noticing). All the "I want for my playing style" arguments are rather pointless. The real question is how it should work for new players, who haven't played enough to start looking through mods.
Another question is the part about features for modders. For instance the question about not being able to perform surgery on Mechanoids. Apparently it's disabled/removed in the code, making it extra work for modders to enable again. Why isn't it simply disabled in xml? It would have made sense considering it's something, which is modded for B18 and odds are that most B18 mods will be converted to 1.0 mods.
Quote from: Zajedac on June 26, 2018, 01:27:46 PM
I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.
I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.
If something like this is changed, please do it as a pre-game choice in the options, maybe require a custom scenario option, 'simple leather', 'simple meat', like Masterwork Dwarf Fortress does.
I like the variety, and the different types of leather and so on. I like the blue fur flavor.. homogenization is anti-fun. I like having a large stockpile and seeing all the different material types.
Also, perhaps let pawns use multiple leather types for one clothing piece?
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 02:24:55 AM
Serious question: Should I write on the scenario description "this scenario is unfair"? Because it is, and it must remain so. Especially if you're choosing biomes without healroot.
LoL, its called naked brutality, not naked "walk in the park". Forgive me the off topic and if I might seem a bit blunt, but allow me to draw a parallel here.
In fitness there is something people call "ego lifting", that is the act of lifting more weights than you should, while sacrificing proper form and repetitions, possibly leading to injury. This is kinda the same as "ego playing", that is to play something on the hardest difficulty just because you think you can do it. There is a lot of people that just got used to harder difficulties by just using cheezy techniques, and you know they are cheezy, any raider with more than a peanut for a brain would know not to walk in a suicidal killbox. Regardless don't go playing the game, with a naked start on a freaking frozen wasteland where life indeed shouldn't be possibly, and thinking you are in for fair challenge, because literally it shouldn't be.
I usually like to play on rough chillax, even though there are much less threats in between, its still pretty hard, because believe it or not, I can't rely on raider loot that often, I can't rely on trading either, so year after year I'm counting my food towards starvation by the end of winter. So in turn I get more difficulty in the environmental and survival aspect of it, which is how I like to play. So forget about playing for a difficulty label, and just fucking play the game how you want to play it.
Same deal regarding legendary items, I barely got in +10 skill on some things and I'm seeing some masterworks left and right, not all the time mind you. But why the fuck would you want to fill your base solely with legendary items, like literally, why would that even matter, since people said themselves, there is but a little additional buff to these items. Why people so hung up on using exclusively just prime art work like they live in a freaking museum?
But anyway, sorry if I went blunt off topic.
^It could also be a recipe which changes the multiple leathers into light, medium and hard. I understand that some people like the different colours and it may seem nice to them. I dont see a reason why not do this to meat, though.
Few latest beta run impressions:
1) New armor system seem nice and fair, shotguns now feel kind of weak though, maybe they need to land a longer stun or something
2) There are still too many leather and wool types, and crafting patchwork stuff feel counterproductive
3) Predator hunt for pawns is annoyingly sneaky, early warnings would be welcome
4) Delivery quests are quite perplexing, most of the time asking for things I don't have and not going to have anytime soon if ever. Other times asking 12 cotton t-shirts in exchange for high end unique and powerful items.
Just got an event for an arcotech legs that is reported to be "unguarded"
:O
:O :O :O :O :O
Increase rewards for trading is great, but for items lying around unguarded, that feels pretty high.
Quote from: Greep on June 26, 2018, 01:16:20 PM
First battle with plate result (vs 6 tribals):
On the one hand, my guy in plate mail, advanced helmet, and plasteel gladius got downed (not killed). On the other hand, he repelled the raid mostly by himself as I did not have the time to properly gear everyone else. It feels like it's working well.
The bruising mechanic feels like it needs some tuning. Even though he ended up with only 3 cuts, he ended up with 8 bruises, which is why he got downed fairly quickly. I think successful deflections should have a chance of no bruise, like maybe 50/50, possibly even as high as 2/3.
How do you decide how much bruising is "too much"? I like the idea that there is a state between "bad/infection-prone injury" and "no damage whatsoever", still with at least some consequence if you soak in "too many" hits.
Or put another way, on average how many hits would be reasonable to take before bruising/pain downs based on your estimation? Knowing that this has to scale onto both player armor and raider armor, I'd rather see the game err on the side of doing more damage than less on grounds that each movement choice matters more and battles are less of a grind, but you can take damage too far too.
But what criteria decides how much is too much or too little? I ask because I struggle to conceive it. Broadly speaking, Tynan could pick anything in the range where the weapon variants are still relevant and I wouldn't have a basis for preferring a 25% bruise rate to a 95% bruise rate...what makes one "better" than the other?
Also how did you fight the tribals? Constantly fighting 3v1 in a doorway 6x is very different from "6 tribals surround and pound one guy in plate armor".
QuoteIn fitness there is something people call "ego lifting", that is the act of lifting more weights than you should, while sacrificing proper form and repetitions, possibly leading to injury. This is kinda the same as "ego playing", that is to play something on the hardest difficulty just because you think you can do it.
That's pretty disingenuous. There's a difference between loading one plate too many and the machine electrocuting you when you sit down. If the game is lifting weights, you expect to lift weights, not to wear insulation/run a marathon/engage in underwater horseback riding.
Same goes with Rimworld. Events that are the gym equivalent of a dude running up and belly flopping onto the bar while you're trying to do bench press are out of place. That's not the kind of game Rimworld is :).
Quote from: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 01:45:08 PMAlso, perhaps let pawns use multiple leather types for one clothing piece?
But you can, there is a bill to patch different leather together, it's called make patchleather, requires 50 if other leather types of I'm not mistaken.
Nothing fancy. Just set up some defenses around some rocky areas so at the very least I can turn a corner into their faces behind some sandbags. No door games, though, so it's not "perfect play". but most people going for heavy armor before deadfalls probably aren't going to be playing perfectly either.
As for how much bruising is good. That's a tough call to say without doing another battle. Less than what it currently is, as even when you hit power armor, you will get downed very quickly, since bruising was what mostly caused my being downed.
Now for a more objective post about actual issues.
and sorry for double post, but I like to keep them separate Quote from: Aerial on June 25, 2018, 07:30:55 PM
Is this a bug or intended? A pawn in my colony had a mental break at 72% mood. The minor break threshold is listed at 35%, which I always took to mean pawns wouldn't ever break if their mood is above that. The pawn doesn't have any traits that impact break threshold.
I've also been noticing this, mental brakes seems to be happening a lot more like random events now, I usually have near full mood bars and yet some mental brakes happen there, which is somewhat nonsensical. I though I had a picture of this as well, but unfortunately I can't find it.
QuoteMultianalizer now doesn't need advanced components
I dislike that, in fact I think there are plenty of opportunities to get advanced components before hand. It felt as good tech divisor. You can easily get adv components from mechanoids, and I even get a trade quest with x19 adv components as rewards, which seems crazy really.
QuoteYou shouldn't been facing Mechanoids with bolt rifles
I've faced about tree fallen mechs so far, with rifles because I just ain't at that tech level yet. It was alright even though centipedes are such brutal damage sponges, one time it spawned three centipedes which felt unreasonable, however scyther and lancer are a dangerous though manageable opponents. Thing is, it would make sense if its because of their high armor rating, which I didn't know if it was in the game already. Making use of EMP grenades is a good tactic, though unreliable since they can gain immunity back. And also if they have a rocket launcher in between its pretty devastating.
QuoteArmor rating/piercing
Again, would make a lot more sense, as I've said earlier, the place armor didn't seem to have any advantage over regular flak vest/pants, I haven't tested the latest builds so I won't comment on it.
Though I have to ask once more time, to move armor into their own category separate from clothing, so you can, you know, smelt and recycle. Also only a nut would wear plate armor without any clothing underneath, it would also make sense so they can have some sort of insulation.
Quote from: Zajedac on June 26, 2018, 01:27:46 PM
I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.
I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.
I would also like to see map overlay which would show ground fertility, as distinguishing between fifty shades of brown is sometimes quite hard and difference between stony soil and soil (and the border between rich soil and soil) isn't always obvious.
The way its going I really that's how it will end, but with a difference between light/medium/heavy and regular/furry/scaley(?) leather, it seems though a lot of the conventional leathers are still in the game for compatibility purposes. They are also likely to make the same change for meats since so many people are asking.
Regarding ground fertility, I would also think its a good idea, to have a visual overlay for when making growing zones, it would a huge QoL thing but may not be so easy to implement.
Update on armor:
Crafted a plasteel plate armor out of curiosity and that is... some pretty crazy protection. A normal set was 94.5% sharp protection, and even 80% blunt. With current bruising, that is somewhat balanced, but I'm guessing this is not intended.
Edit: Actually 40% blunt, that was heat. Still, pretty crazy stuff.
Edit: Also side observation: Just noticed plate covers the neck. That does make going against tribals somewhat less suicidal than I was expecting. So that's good :)
Quote from: Gfurst on June 26, 2018, 02:22:27 PM
QuoteMultianalizer now doesn't need advanced components
I dislike that, in fact I think there are plenty of opportunities to get advanced components before hand. It felt as good tech divisor. You can easily get adv components from mechanoids, and I even get a trade quest with x19 adv components as rewards, which seems crazy really.
Not sure where you're finding all these advanced components. I've never seen a single one even on my colonies that have made it an entire year ( I restart a lot, trying different stuff.) I think that was a good change.
Quote from: Greep on June 26, 2018, 02:18:18 PM
Nothing fancy. Just set up some defenses around some rocky areas so at the very least I can turn a corner into their faces behind some sandbags. No door games, though, so it's not "perfect play". but most people going for heavy armor before deadfalls probably aren't going to be playing perfectly either.
As for how much bruising is good. That's a tough call to say without doing another battle. Less than what it currently is, as even when you hit power armor, you will get downed very quickly, since bruising was what mostly caused my being downed.
Perhaps, but the ability to get downed via bruising (less infection risk, reliable survival as long as you survive the raid ultimately) is by itself a BIG deal, especially since raider ignore downed pawns. Even with 100% bruise rate, this is still a substantial benefit. I'd suggest quite a lot of playing around with this before making too many conclusions, even as a player, even if we assume it will never change. It's a meta-shifting design concept.
If my old save works I'll give it a good spin since I still have multiple power armors from my early run on ancient dangers, and enemy raids are also starting to scale into armor so I can give these a good stress test on both sides.
QuoteNot sure where you're finding all these advanced components. I've never seen a single one even on my colonies that have made it an entire year ( I restart a lot, trying different stuff.) I think that was a good change.
Most typically you'd get one within 1-2 years since mech ships drop them, so it wasn't a big deal. I still think it's a good change as it would be problematic for people playing phoebe on lower difficulties (mech ship might not happen/be delayed a lot).
Regarding the multianalyzer, remember that this is something unaffected by difficulty settings, and so you have to treat this in a more casual way. It is a bit too hardcore to lock out someone playing on basebuilder from most of the research tree for a potentially very long time. So I consider it a good change.
Edit: blugh, ninja
Regarding the difficulty. You need a game mode that is close to unwinnable because it adds a skill cap. It definetly by far isn't unwinnable. I survived an entire first year without any healroot or meds for anything besides what I got from traders and it was just for infections. After the first year I finally had a real grower. There isn't anything unfair about anything. The biggest things that were unfair are gone.
There are plenty of things that are stupidly difficult. But that is what you sign up for on naked brutal extreme in a cold biome. Personally even though I can do that... I prefer the tribal colony on rough difficulty. Lets me watch tv and play and go for more design over functionality decisions. Plus I can explore things like caravan. If I feel like getting my ass beat in I like the fact that I might loose a naked brutal in the ice sheet 10 times over before I figure out how to win. Adds to the satisfaction of victory.
Quote from: Greep on June 26, 2018, 02:34:34 PM
Regarding the multianalyzer, remember that this is something unaffected by difficulty settings, and so you have to treat this in a more casual way. It is a bit too hardcore to lock out someone playing on basebuilder from most of the research tree for a potentially very long time. So I consider it a good change.
Quote from: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 02:26:14 PM
Not sure where you're finding all these advanced components. I've never seen a single one even on my colonies that have made it an entire year ( I restart a lot, trying different stuff.) I think that was a good change.
Like it was said, you can get one easy from mechanoids ships (and maybe disassembly). One year is indeed way too early, unless you're beelining for the higher techs. Besides mechs, I'm pretty sure you can get them other ways, like trades and quests.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 26, 2018, 02:07:07 PM
QuoteIn fitness there is something people call "ego lifting", that is the act of lifting more weights than you should, while sacrificing proper form and repetitions, possibly leading to injury. This is kinda the same as "ego playing", that is to play something on the hardest difficulty just because you think you can do it.
That's pretty disingenuous. There's a difference between loading one plate too many and the machine electrocuting you when you sit down. If the game is lifting weights, you expect to lift weights, not to wear insulation/run a marathon/engage in underwater horseback riding.
Same goes with Rimworld. Events that are the gym equivalent of a dude running up and belly flopping onto the bar while you're trying to do bench press are out of place. That's not the kind of game Rimworld is :).
But it is, you shouldn't be going into the higher difficulty expecting to have a grand'ol time. People playing on normal difficulties are already under constant threat of something going awfully wrong, and not only that there are degrees of difficulty, but you shouldn't be going into the worst possible difficulty settings, on the worse possible biome, with the worse starting conditions, and expecting anything but dread. And I can see how some people will like playing the game this way, but just don't go higher difficulty just because its there, pick something you will actually enjoy.
On my current start of naked brutality day 6 of Cass/Hard a refugee was chased in incapable of violence. Raider spawned in with a normal flak vest plainleather pants and patched leather cowboyhat/buttondown shirt. I had a short bow and some regular clothing taken from a previous raid. Took close to 20 mins IRL of kiting trying to kill this guy. The flak has 100% sharp protection. I'm assuming that's what kept this guy alive for so long. I saved before the raid and replayed it a 5 times. Each time taking roughly the same amount time. Although I lost once due to a misclick and another time due to hitting an emu and it going manhuter on me lol. Some other things I've noted is that the passive cooler still says it will vanish after several days which is no longer the case. None of the power generators list their output. As a "new player" I would like to know their output w/o having to build each one. Also with gutworms (or any disease) possibly showing the info about treatmeants until healed, so new players don't feel like "is this crap ever going to go away" and they have a sense of making progress toward it.
Quote from: Ambaire on June 26, 2018, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: Zajedac on June 26, 2018, 01:27:46 PM
I like how you simplified the leather system, but I think I would actually preffer having just 4 types - light, medium, hard and humanoid. The leathers are still too many (for my taste) and clutter the stockpile unnecesarily.
I also dont see why we shouldnt have just three types of meat - animal meat, human meat and insectoid meat. It would again reduce the amount of clutter in stockpiles and simplify our lives on the Rim. If you want to have more types of meat for feeding the animals, you could make a bill in the butchering table that would make meat just for animal consumption.
If something like this is changed, please do it as a pre-game choice in the options, maybe require a custom scenario option, 'simple leather', 'simple meat', like Masterwork Dwarf Fortress does.
I like the variety, and the different types of leather and so on. I like the blue fur flavor.. homogenization is anti-fun. I like having a large stockpile and seeing all the different material types.
Also, perhaps let pawns use multiple leather types for one clothing piece?
You can craft patchwork leather (or how it is called now) at the tailor bench. Using multiple leathers would be too complicated and negates the use of patchwork leather as a mixed but weaker type.
Otherwise I agree with you. A bit abstrahation like the lightleather and plainleather are nice to keep quantity down, but variety is nice and gives it more depth. I think the current leather system is ok It could be a few less, but it doesn't have to. Something like this for meat would be nice. Like we have birdmeat and in addition to that there could be a meat type for small game like squirrels and rats, maybe even raccons and so on. Just to get a number of roughly around 10 or 15 different type sounds fine.
Btw, I like the new fixed faction colors on the world map. It's just a minor detail, but it was a bit annoying when the random generator picked almost similar colors for different factions.
Quote from: x7GoSu on June 26, 2018, 03:13:20 PM
On my current start of naked brutality day 6 of Cass/Hard a refugee was chased in incapable of violence. Raider spawned in with a normal flak vest plainleather pants and patched leather cowboyhat/buttondown shirt. I had a short bow and some regular clothing taken from a previous raid. Took close to 20 mins IRL of kiting trying to kill this guy. The flak has 100% sharp protection. I'm assuming that's what kept this guy alive for so long. I saved before the raid and replayed it a 5 times. Each time taking roughly the same amount time. Although I lost once due to a misclick and another time due to hitting an emu and it going manhuter on me lol. Some other things I've noted is that the passive cooler still says it will vanish after several days which is no longer the case. None of the power generators list their output. As a "new player" I would like to know their output w/o having to build each one. Also with gutworms (or any disease) possibly showing the info about treatmeants until healed, so new players don't feel like "is this crap ever going to go away" and they have a sense of making progress toward it.
Yeah, I was surprised after crafting my first pieces of flak armor. Didn't expect it to have so much sharp armor %. Of course after crafting 3 sets, I got a pirate raid of 18 people vs my 5 guys. I kind of chose to get raided since I gave safe haven to one of my colonist's mother (she was a refugee asking for help through the radio). No casualties, so the flak vest and pants seem pretty useful. I only had to kill about 8 raiders before the rest ran away, which was nice. I chased down 2 more raiders out of spite and killed them before they ran off the map. >:(
Lol, you hit an emu during fighting and it went manhunter? That's pretty funny. Power generators listing their output before it's built would be very handy. Same with gutworms treatment info. When I first started playing rimworld, I had quite a few browsers opened for rimworld wiki and alt tabbed a lot during gameplay just to search for something that didn't have the info I was wondering about in game. It's not too big of a deal for me since I'm used to doing so from previous games anyway but it would be a nice addition.
Can we get like an animal shrink or something to stop by? Every two minutes, another animal goes nuts. I'm starting to get worried about their mental health.
Had another raid, 8 gun raiders vs 4 my guys in steel/plasteel with plasteel gladiuses. Repelled, but two guy kidnapped. I didn't really use any strategy other than surprise jumping them, although it was raining. I think crafting uber plasteel armor made the raid unusually big, though.
It still kind of feels like bruising is too strong: You're going to be dumping 2k+ steel/plasteel into gear, which means you're not going to have much in the way of security or tech. I think at the very least you should be able to easily repel the first couple raids thrown at you, even using no strategy at all, snice you're set back a lot.
Upon thinking about this further, I think a good balance would be to have the adjusted armor after weapons subtract from bruising chance. Something like, 100% - the adjusted amount/1.5
E.g. if you have 90% sharp resist, and someone attacks you with something that has 30% piecing, you'd have a 100 - (90-30)/1.5 = 60% chance of bruising on deflection. This counters the somewhat silly situation of revolvers bruising you always with high end plasteel plate. Or perhaps just reducing said bruising damage rather than as a chance of bruising or not.
Ultimately a more effective strategy is having enemies shoot at a turret while you snipe them at range and repair your turret behind a wall, so it's not like this would be powerful anyways.
Plate with current bruising balancing would probably just have a niche role of repelling melee tribal swarms or something, although they tend to have a lot of blunt. And probably decent for early caravans.
Anyways, I think I've got a good feel for banzai attacking. I'll check out the autoturrets now.
@1.0 standard scenario, Cassandra "rough" re: taming regression experience
Had a polar bear and wolf go wild on me in tundra in middle of first winter, ok, those little emergencies are exactly what keeps this game interesting. I applaud that the animal tame regress mechanic now provides for overall better game balance. I thought perhaps rescuing and then feeding them after I downed them would give me a chance to retame. No luck. Two less mouths to feed and a little more meat on the table then I guess.
The sad part was that before going feral they were very well fed in an otherwise completely barren environment. After going wild they were starving and stalked my pawns rather than take a little hand out food. I never had a chance to even try to tame them again, they were too ravenous and just attacked the nearest pawns. I think a higher chance to revert back to tamed should be considered after going wild. If they keep their per pawn social preference stats after reverting to wild then a previous well loved master approaching with food should quickly bring them back into the fold imo. Next time I might also try leaving some meat on the doorstep until they are less ravenous and less likely to attack first... learning by experience, the gold standard for RW. I still hope the animals retrain somewhat easier then a fully wild animal, perhaps that is already incorporated and working as designed. I thought the story worth relating.
Love the game, particularly the difficulty, don't love everything about 1.0 but on whole it is going in right direction, same comment on recent adjustments. Thank you!
QuoteBut it is, you shouldn't be going into the higher difficulty expecting to have a grand'ol time. People playing on normal difficulties are already under constant threat of something going awfully wrong, and not only that there are degrees of difficulty, but you shouldn't be going into the worst possible difficulty settings, on the worse possible biome, with the worse starting conditions, and expecting anything but dread. And I can see how some people will like playing the game this way, but just don't go higher difficulty just because its there, pick something you will actually enjoy.
Always good advice to play where you enjoy...but I actually *like* playing around raid sizes of 15+ by 5501, or floundering trying to live 3 vs 8. The complaints in this thread weren't about that, but rather about pure RNG death...which has subsequently been largely mitigated in the 1.0 iterations following.
In essence, it's fine to punish someone for loading too many weights, but that game should still be about lifting. In Rimworld, your outcomes are almost solely contingent on how well you prepare before events and how well you execute during them. Even when it's unfair. Even when the smallest mistake can end your run.
In this regard, stuff that TRULY kills you or punishes you without counterplay is extremely rare and runs counter to 99% of what makes up playing Rimworld. There is almost always a way out, had you prepared in advance. The argument before was more "the game tells you not to push for the ideal pawn, but some of these new implementations require that"...Tynan acknowledged this and tuned the game.
Basically, if you die it's your fault again, and that's the way it should be :D.
The principle misconception is that lack of agency = challenge. It's the opposite: lack of agency is a skill equalizer and antithetical to challenge. Challenge arises when the agency you do have is non-trivial to identify and/or execute.
Bug: Turbulence penalty from other watermill persists after the interfering watermill is removed.
(https://i.imgur.com/6IT7Jj6.png)
Subjective impressions of last night's gameplay (NB/Boreal Forest/Cassandra Rough - completed game Year 1 into Year 2):
-Having Non-Tribal Outlander factions being Hostile with each other is great for memorable events in a way that I don't remember B18 being; I had two factions with Caravans show up almost simultaneously, and had an unexpected firefight with each other. One faction guard was toting an Incendiary Launcher, and lit parts of my 2-Pawn Base on fire...hilarity ensued.
The final casualty toll was 7 dead Faction members from both sides, 2 wounded (who were from the same faction - these were patched up, and faction relations improved), with tons of dropped loot from both caravans.
A note about this: grabbing the dropped weaponry they left upgraded my ranged capability in a way that I probably wouldn't have been able to do for at least another 2 game years at my current tech/research rate. I went from 2 Short Bows to enough Chain/Pump Shotguns, Machine Pistols and Incendiaries (Molotovs and Launchers) to equip an 8-Pawn Colony. I'm not complaining, and will happily accept the upgrade...it just felt like something for nothing: I saved my wooden base and crops from burning down, and got an unexpected and significant windfall of material and weaponry.
-The map on my biome is *loaded* with predators...more than I've ever seen in B18: I love this. At one point, I think there were 3 Grizzlies, 2 Wargs, 2 Lynxes, and at least another 2-3 Wolves on the map (a Warg and a Lynx both attempted to hunt my colonists when I got careless, and forgot to check the map beforehand for danger).
An observation: it feels like Predators are dying of infection too easily. I just completed my first game year, and didn't have to hunt for food once: I scavanged the dead bodies of animals exclusively to survive the first winter, and a significant, maybe even a majority amount were large predators who died of infections from their hunts. The result is that I have a substantial surplus of meat, and a surplus of leathers/furs for extreme temperatures. Even if my colony size increases from 2 to 6 very rapidly, no one is going to starve for a while...and, most significantly, there was very little to no risk involved.
None of these are complaints in any way: just observations about how gameplay feels up to this point. I'm having a blast with this current game. And I still have only 4 Herbal Medicine. :)
Randy/extreme swamp biome - Rich explorer
hostiles Pawns moving at same speed no matter the tile /marsh - Even when I was walking for the path and they were chassing me
Ancient cryptobasket with a hive inside megaspider pretty much ignored the slaves pawn inside (1 was dead ,1 downed the other one escaped)
Since now we have the armor system / it would be kind of nice to have a more dynamic stats for weapons/armors defletc- perhaps as your shoooting skills advance or with some advance helmets
so far 3 raids and Im still alive,I report later perhaps with some new armor/turret feedback.
Hmmmm my dog got the plague, and i can't use first aid until the dog goes to the animal bed; what i mean is it loses so much time before i can treat the dog. Maybe an action "goes to your bed" (being the owner of the dog could be an idea) could fix some pets problems ?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: NagashUD on June 26, 2018, 04:40:55 PM
Hmmmm my dog got the plague, and i can't use first aid until the dog goes to the animal bed; what i mean is it loses so much time before i can treat the dog. Maybe an action "goes to your bed" (being the owner of the dog could be an idea) could fix some pets problems ?
I've yet to tame my first animal in 1.0, but the old solution to this was to set up a medical bill for that animal (Anesthetize), and then order a pawn to take it to an Animal Bed/Sleeping spot so the animal would stop walking around. You'd then cancel the "Anesthetize" order on the Medical Bill, and order a colonist to treat the now-stationary animal. My guess is that this would still work with 1.0.
Some random thoughts:
Legendary/Masterwork change is good IMO, logic behind it is sound.
Animals: I feel as though the different training categories could have different variables. Obedience could fade away slowest and/or only require trainer time* as opposed to food. The other categories would require food/ more upkeep. Perhaps a system where animals with multiple skills, or each more important skill, requires a higher level trainer.
* have animal play time as both a joy source and obedience recharge.
Quote from: Crow_T on June 26, 2018, 05:19:29 PM
Some random thoughts:
Legendary/Masterwork change is good IMO, logic behind it is sound.
Animals: I feel as though the different training categories could have different variables. Obedience could fade away slowest and/or only require trainer time* as opposed to food (play experience- early food going to starting animals for training is a bit rough). The other categories would require food/ more upkeep. Perhaps a system where animals with multiple skills, or each more important skill, requires a higher level trainer.
* have animal play time as both a joy source and obedience recharge.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 26, 2018, 07:34:53 AM
Shouldn't the workLeft for smoothing stone walls (and floors if possible) be stored in the Things themselves rather than the JobDrivers? It seems odd that interrupting somebody's smoothing job just magically reverts all of that person's progress on smoothing stone stuff.
with how long it takes to plant trees also, this would be nice
Has anyone tested if caravaning gives more food than staying in the base?
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 04:49:27 PM
Quote from: NagashUD on June 26, 2018, 04:40:55 PM
Hmmmm my dog got the plague, and i can't use first aid until the dog goes to the animal bed; what i mean is it loses so much time before i can treat the dog. Maybe an action "goes to your bed" (being the owner of the dog could be an idea) could fix some pets problems ?
I've yet to tame my first animal in 1.0, but the old solution to this was to set up a medical bill for that animal (Anesthetize), and then order a pawn to take it to an Animal Bed/Sleeping spot so the animal would stop walking around. You'd then cancel the "Anesthetize" order on the Medical Bill, and order a colonist to treat the now-stationary animal. My guess is that this would still work with 1.0.
Yup seems like it still works, thanks for the tip !
Well about quests, isn't that too much requests ? i mean it feels like i get some every rimworld days . Is that intentional or still require some balance about ?
Resurrector serum should remove "witnessed allys death" as well as resurrecting the pawn. After all, the pawn is no longer dead. Heck, if anything they should get a slight happiness that they aren't dead anymore.
Quote from: NagashUD on June 26, 2018, 05:57:26 PM
Well about quests, isn't that too much requests ? i mean it feels like i get some every rimworld days . Is that intentional or still require some balance about ?
Yeah it feels like they're too often, even though don't have to fulfill them at all. It add to variety, but I've guess it could be tuned down. Maybe a countdown?
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 26, 2018, 05:53:02 PM
Has anyone tested if caravaning gives more food than staying in the base?
I highly doubt that's the case, but someone could do the testing with high skilled growers. Thing is, the "days of food" stat seem to account for foraging capacity, so in most of cases even when there was high foraging we would still run out of food eventually.
Quote from: Crow_T on June 26, 2018, 05:19:29 PM
Animals: I feel as though the different training categories could have different variables. Obedience could fade away slowest and/or only require trainer time* as opposed to food. The other categories would require food/ more upkeep. Perhaps a system where animals with multiple skills, or each more important skill, requires a higher level trainer.
It may be only my impression, but it seems that the higher training decays first. And it feels pretty low too, I stopped training one of my fully trained dogs (wildness 0), for a like a year already and its training barely dropped at all.
I greatly underestimated how awesome this new armor system. At first I was sure that anything from flak vest to power armor will work exactly the same with constant 50% blunt damage... And then I see this manhunting event with 11 alpha beavers whille I have only 2 brawlers and 1 charge rifle on an open field. My fear was that I will get overrun in no time. Pawn in flak vest gets downed very fast with a lot of bleeding wounds. Two pawns in power armor get decent number of zero damage hits and some light bruises w/o going above medium pain. My skepticism is gone: love this new system and how power armor works in it.
Another note: I saw penetration stats on tribal weapons and they are disturbingly high. Is this for balansing reasons?
Also: how about armor on walls and turrets?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Played v .1946 with NB on Randy Hard
Picked a random starting location (Arid Shrubland, permanent summer) with small hills. I got a Wanderer joins on the first day. The 2 pawns complimented each other nicely. I decided to not act like tribals and instead get electricity up and running asap. I was short on components but the next day a chased refugee that was a Digger appeared and I took him. He mined the components well and constructed and planted decently. Unfortunately he was a drug addict. We got a windmill generator, a cook stove and even a freezer running with a nice plot of rice in rich soil near the base. We were working on building separate bedrooms from scavenged slate blocks when things took a turn for the worse. A heat wave hit and the original pawn died of heatstroke after several mental breaks and long wanders out in the heat. The second pawn was killed in a fire fight versus a raider with a revolver. She had a machine pistol that she had walked in with but the range and accuracy on the revolver was too much better than her weapon and down she went. The drug addicted digger died last, downed by withdrawal with no one to care for him. He starved to death.
It was a good play experience although short. I think the resources and animals and plants on the map were well balanced. There were some but not too many, resources really mattered but were manageable, which is exactly what I would expect on a resource constrained biome. I don't think I could have managed the outcome much better though. The odds were stacked against us pretty hard from the start and my goal wasn't to win (escape) but rather to see how long I could survive.
Since you added that feature where if you select several raiders it shows what weapons they have, it would be nice if it also showed how many of them there are. For example, if there are two pistols, show a x2 in the pistol icon.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 26, 2018, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: NagashUD on June 26, 2018, 05:57:26 PM
Well about quests, isn't that too much requests ? i mean it feels like i get some every rimworld days . Is that intentional or still require some balance about ?
Yeah it feels like they're too often, even though don't have to fulfill them at all. It add to variety, but I've guess it could be tuned down. Maybe a countdown?
Well B18 quests were perfect for the timing imo, making each one of them important;
I'm on Cassandra Hard and 17 raiders just came from pods, 15 of them have either grenades or molotovs. Bye bye colony.
EDIT: Got it somehow, they spent more time blowing up my wall rather than trying to attack my pawns.
[attachment deleted due to age]
First Post: Came here hoping Tynan would read this.
I think that Thrumbo Rates should be adjusted. As it stands, Thrumbo Farming is nearly impossible. For a few patches I've tried it for fun, and it's just not really doable, unless you want to play a 25+ year game.
With recent increases to gestation period, and severe increase to the time it takes to plant/grow trees, keeping thrumbos, and trying to breed them is indeed difficult.
I understand you want the game difficult, but I feel that breeding thrumbos should at least be possible, within 5 years or so, instead 15 years. I understand you want to add to the mystique of them by making them hard to breed, but I think it would be more fun if they were REALLY DIFFICULT to breed, but not 15 years difficult.
Thrumbos already have a massive appetite(which makes them not profitable already... but that's fine), and are nearly useless in battle, because they quickly accumulate long term injuries(which makes them weak, even if they survive).
I just think the gestation period, and more importantly, the time it takes to reach adulthood should be tweaked a bit. The addition of animal hormones(with side effects... that would really fit in with the game).
I think that having some Thrumbos breeding could be the equivalent of making 30 Gold Large Legendary sculptures. They could be a symbol of wealth, and another "END GAME" option for players. As you know, most players don't even finish the game. Allowing players to create thrumbo farms would be a MUCH more entertaining end game, and resource sink than building gold statues, or floors. Minimally, it offers diversity, with no real drawbacks(besides slightly demystifying the Thrumbo... but I think the benefits outweigh the costs).
In regards to mood buffs that should be applied, with only the first two being repeats:
1. Colonists that are saved do not get a "IM SAVED" moodlet despite their family members do.
2. Colonists should be totally be happy when their dead friend/family gets revived. I have like, four resurrect serum ready to be used if needed.
3. Colonists should be somewhat psyched if their "pained" part of their body gets fixed. A scar on a limb should get like a +2 whereas someone that's been blinded should be psyched for a quite a while.
4. Colonists that get rif off their addictions should also be somewhat glad they kicked the habit.
5. Considering the recreation drain for caravans, a simple, like 3 day "went travelling for a while" would also be nice.
It seems that my game has changed difficulty from "Rough (the new Hard)" to "Medium (the old Some Challenge) sometime during the last update, possibly when the game difficulty terms were changed; I just noticed it by accident.
Others may wish to go in and check their difficulty level, as well; I'm positive I didn't change this on my own.
Has anyone noted this happening in the forum previously?
Quote from: quattheduck on June 26, 2018, 09:39:29 PM
With recent increases to gestation period, and severe increase to the time it takes to plant/grow trees, keeping thrumbos, and trying to breed them is indeed difficult.
Feed them with simple meals, not trees. :P 4x rations compared to pawn not that difficult.
Just my 2 cents worth of gameplay story since I've finally something moderately interesting and different.
---
Decided in a brief moment of insanity to try a Naked Brutality, Transhumanist-only game in a desert, 30/60 growing period, average temp of 12.3 (-4C-29C) (Cass, rough/hard when the change was made).
Early game:First few months were fairly expectedly brutal but manageable so long as I kept my one colonist inside her tiny room every time an Ostrich or similar decided to take exception to me attempting to shoot it to death with a short bow. More than a few times I was forced to hide inside and repair the door until the manhunting status wore off. The risk of infection was simply too great to be less cautious.
Obtained clothing(Parka included) during my first winter when an escape pod landed nearby with a
filthy body-purist in it who clearly deserved death by exposure in the desert and being eaten by megascarabs >.>
Only one point required a piece of divine intervention
*coughcheatingcough* when a "pack" of manhunting chickens (one rooster) happened to appear just as my only colonist was rendered incapacitated by food poisoning... from eating raw ostrich for about the 80th time in a row, wood being something of a premium.
Pure luck lead to about my.. 4th? wanderer being a Transhumanist on day 30(Up to this point I'd banished every one as they weren't transhumanists).
Two Revolvers were obtained from banished wanderers ( Quite the stroke of luck frankly as they're reasonable all-purpose weapons) made the transition from naked insanity to standard rimworld fairly smooth.
Checking most incapacitated refugees since it generally required less than a day round trip due to flat desert and a nearby road.
---
Mid-game:Rushed up to Gunsmithing pausing only to get Batteries along the way, made two bolt-action rifles and some flak vests/pants. Obtained 2 more transhumanists ( One via incapacitated refugee(day51), one via a raid(105-111) during my 2nd year and with that finally had the manpower to really build up a proper base and eventually a wall.
Went straight to Autocannons (After double checking the new armor system and their stats) and well.. They're certainly expensive but you get what you pay for. I was actually ridiculously impressed with the Autocannon as in practice they have few -if any- serious flaws.
https://imgur.com/a/NvBxehI
Image is a little old but shows the basic situation.
My setup is deliberately open but in spite of that the autocannon fairly trivially crushes most opposition. It would certainly be a different story on a higher difficulty but as it stands at 28,000 wealth that thing is going to require a serious fiasco to be overwhelmed. Wealth was admittedly low due to the general lack of manpower and emphasis on researching.
General plan from here on out is to progress towards Bionics and see if the wealth buildup from doing so becomes overwhelming due to artificially low population count.. I don't think it will however because of -surprisingly- autocannons.
---
Autocannon rambling:I expected the 2-steel-per-shot maintenance on the Autocannon to be prohibitive but after another 40 days worth of raids I can't say that it is. To be perfectly frank given the fragility of mini turrets, their short range, tendency to explode, and general lack of lethality I'm not sure I'd ever go back to using mini turrets personally unless it's in some ridiculously contrived murder-zone.
Autocannons aren't even particularly expensive to replace if they're
somehow destroyed, given that they drop half the materials used to construct them irrespective of their barrel status. If their barrels require replacing at the time of destruction then you're really only paying 120 steel and 3 components.
Sure there's a bit of manpower involved in smelting the slag and creating the components but ultimately it's just not a huge deal.
They're tough as nails when made out of just steel so using them to absorb incoming fire is not only practical it's downright silly not to. Given that plasteel versions have an extra 755 health I imagine I'll be using those whenever possible in the future.
---
Armor system:
First impressions weren't great but that was mostly down to how currently there's
almost no in-game description of how the new mechanics actually work.
Assuming that the system works as follows:
Quote
1. We subtract AP from AR.
2. We generate a random number from 0-100.
2a. If it's over the AR, the damage applies directly.
2b. If it's under AR but over AR/2, damage is diminished. This means:
2b1. Damage amount reduced by 50% (rounded random; if this round to zero we treat it as a deflect).
2b2. If damage is sharp, it converts to blunt.
2c. If it's under AR/2, damage is deflected entirely.
I'm fine with this system, it's fairly robust and moderately intuitive (Someone in high quality clothes
might mitigate a shotgun blast or machine pistol but not a bolt-action rifle) but I can see how people would make ridiculously inaccurate assumptions based on the current description of mechanics in-game.
The only description currently is under a weapon's Armor Penetration stat and it doesn't accurately communicate the entire mechanic, only (1.).
There's an entire discussion to be had about how transparent game mechanics should be for various audiences but I think everyone can agree that misinformation is
probably worse than no information and the current description of armor/armor penetration is bordering on misinformation.
---
On the subject of lackluster tooltips (Though it's nothing to do with changes in 1.0)- Ranged Cooldown, Warmup, and Trigger Happy/Careful Shooter, aren't very clear.
Trigger Happy/Careful Shooter refer to Aiming Time which is Warmup on a gun's statistics(Insofar as I can tell)
Warmup doesn't have a description at all.
Aiming Time isn't listed on weapons - only Pawns and it's not very clear which stat it's interacting with when comparing guns.
For example a Trigger Happy pawn with a Revolver only shaves 0.15s off the normally 1.68s firing time. (~8.9%)
That same pawn with a Minigun however shaves a whopping 1.55s off the 4.8s firing time. (~32%)
But how would a person know that from looking at
any of the descriptions of the mechanics?
I know that the process is Warmup+Cooldown and Trigger Happy reduces Warmup but the only reason I know that is testing.
I hope I'm not coming across as a condescending asshole here :/Anyway that's it for now, will hopefully have some information about late game robo-colonist-colonies next.
This visual glitch happened in 1.0 today and it appears to be 34x34 tiles wide on most of the squares ... link posted, not sure how to post a pic https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950251198249493/31366AE9364C17B88C56D86611C850CABD674BC7/
TL;DR: The difficulty of the second poison ship event felt right to me, maybe even a little easier than my first poison ship.
First poison ship - 2 centipedes, 1 scyther (around 42k colony wealth) against 5 colonists with steel clubs, a bolt action rifle and one revolver.
Outcome: 3 dead pets - 2 wargs and a panther. No colonist death.
Second poison ship - 4 lancers and 1 inferno canon centipede (62.4k colony wealth) against my team below.
Outcome: 1 dead colonist.
(Naked Brutality - Phoebe - Hard)
This is my second poison ship event, didn't really think about taking notes of the first one, but here's the second.
My team and their equipment:
Kent: Steel club, Steel simple helm, Flak vest, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. His main job is to carry downed colonists to safety and tend to them since he's my highest doctor (medical 11).
Serina: Assault rifle, Steel advanced helm, synthread pants and shirt, power armor. My best shooter w/ 16 in shooting. I had her targeting the centipede.
Cedric: Steel longsword, Steel advanced helm, t-shirt, Flak vest, Bluefur parka, Shield belt, Flak pants. With 13 in melee and super-immune + tough traits, he's my favorite melee/tank colonist right now. I've grown quite attached to him.
Michelle: Bolt-action rifle, Steel simple helm, Heavy fur tribalwear, Bluefur parka. 12 in shooting, Cedric's wife. Pretty much the only things that stand out about her.
Yoshi: Steel club, Steel advanced helm, Flak vest, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. He only has 7 in melee, I brought him as back up EMP grenade thrower in case something happened to Loreen.
Blanca: Heavy smg, Steel simple helm, Flak vest, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. Trigger-happy with only 6 in shooting. Saved refugee. I wouldn't have accepted her into the colony if she wasn't Michelle's mother. Another shooter doesn't hurt I suppose but she's not very good at much else.
Mitsuya: Chain shotgun, Steel simple helm, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. Only 6 in shooting but skilled in social and intellectual. She joined the colony after I rescued her from an ancient danger. Abrasive Cannibal.
Loreen: EMP grenades, Steel simple helm, Bluefur parka, Flak pants. Was in the same ancient danger as Mitsuya, also joined the colony after I healed her up. Unfortunately, she's a body purist gourmand. She helped Kent cook meals though, which was good.
Maid: Bluefur tribalwear, Muffalo wool parka. Her job is to carry downed colonists/pets back to safety before they bleed out. She's not good at combat.
Pets: Shadow the timber wolf and Chaos the panther. They are good boys and have served the colony well thus far.
---
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423782309
Start of the fight - built some granite walls for cover. I wish I had constructed cover for Loreen and Mitsuya.
I guess I figured I didn't mind if I lost them during the battle. I shot the ancient ship with Serina and out pops 4 lancers and 1 centipede with an inferno canon. I targeted the centipede with Cedric and Serina. Mitsuya bravely tanked the centipede's inferno canon with her face while Loreen used her EMP grenades on the group. Michelle and Blanca target the lone lancer to the right.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423787635
Loreen's death, Shadow carried off - Loreen successfully stunned the mob of lancers with the centipede but she got gunned down by the lone lancer. First shot was to her torso, the second destroyed her heart. Rip Loreen. You did well. Yoshi runs over and picks up Loreen's dropped EMP grenades and stuns the lone lancer to the right.
Chaos and Shadow work together to take out a lancer (I told you they are good boys) while Serina and Cedric continue working on the centipede.
Unfortunately the stun wears off and a lancer downs Shadow. Chaos finishes off the lancer that downed his wolf friend and starts attacking the next lancer. By this time, their stun immunity wore off so Yoshi was able to stun the group once again, allowing Maid time to run over and rescue Shadow away to safety.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423821614
Centipede down - Mitsuya, Cedric and Serina spam everything they have on the centipede and it eventually succumbs to a crack.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423825408
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1423827491
Last lancer and Last hit - Chaos bravely charged at the remaining lancer. Cedric came over for the kill steal. :D
I tried to attach the photos, but I exceeded the maximum total size.
Thoughts: I'm very proud of Shadow and Chaos. I think I will try to buy/tame other attack animals from now on and allow these two good boys to retire. Time to patch up my colonists and haul these mech bodies back to base. ^.^
[attachment deleted due to age]
I had an escape pod drop containing a person who was faction-aligned. I rescued her and patched her up, and she started leaving as soon as she was able to walk. However, she was still badly hurt, so her movement speed was very low. She ended up going berserk near the edge of the map due to minor starvation kicking in on top of all her pain. She tried to beat a tortoise to death with her bare fists, died, and I lost faction rep.
Suggestion: It would be great if people rescued from escape pods would wait until they are fully healed before trying to leave the map.
Quote from: JavaWho on June 26, 2018, 10:31:21 PM
This visual glitch happened in 1.0 today and it appears to be 34x34 tiles wide on most of the squares ... link posted, not sure how to post a pic https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950251198249493/31366AE9364C17B88C56D86611C850CABD674BC7/
I posted a similar glitch last night; the glitch disappeared this afternoon, testing it with a save game from the exact point where I noticed it. I'm guessing the latest update today somehow addressed it, but that's only a guess.
I'm really sorry Ty! You simply patch the game so quickly that I don't have time to test every feature in the game! I've got this thing where I'll always do the butt naked start, so it takes me a lot of time to get my colonies off the ground! I really want to give this 3 tiered armor system a try though. I'll post my thoughts in the next day or so if I get a chance to give it a rollthrough tomorrow. Depends on how tired I am after work. ^_^
Quote from: Rockchecker on June 26, 2018, 10:43:15 PM
I had an escape pod drop containing a person who was faction-aligned. I rescued her and patched her up, and she started leaving as soon as she was able to walk. However, she was still badly hurt, so her movement speed was very low. She ended up going berserk near the edge of the map due to minor starvation kicking in on top of all her pain. She tried to beat a tortoise to death with her bare fists, died, and I lost faction rep.
Suggestion: It would be great if people rescued from escape pods would wait until they are fully healed before trying to leave the map.
Another victim from the mighty tortoise. Clearly one of this game's finest contributions. I love watching colonists try to punch through the armored shell and get a finger bit off. XD! It's hilarious. Please never change this.
Random interface comment: The ellipses after items which can be built from more than one material seem pointless to me. Everyone who plays sees the menu when building anyway, and the ellipsis to imply it could be made from other materials just seems to clutter and get in the way.
Yes it is trivial, but it bugged me.
Haven't been able to test the autocannons much, randy's sent literally nothing for half a year, and then pretty much everything but a standard raid. I think I'll have to do cassandra for future playtesting, but I suppose someone has to test randy once or twice xD
One interesting tidbit, a psychic ship enraged nearby animals, and the animals then attacked the mechanoids. Not sure that's happened in previous versions.
Additionally, not sure if it's something that you want fixed for 1.0 but it's worth mentioning that the "leesh" method for doing early psychic ships still works: Snipe the ship, run away, and hit the mechanoids as they walk back for a free shot. Tedious, but effective for the first ship.
Edit: Pyromanics. I feel these still aren't in a good state for release. So far I've had one singular pyro go nuts 5 times this year, and just now he's gone pyro twice in the same day. No mood problems, he's happy even -___- The story behind this was pretty funny, though. He went pyro, proposed to another colonist, and then went pyro again a few hours later. Guess he's pretty hot.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 10:46:36 PM
I posted a similar glitch last night; the glitch disappeared this afternoon, testing it with a save game from the exact point where I noticed it. I'm guessing the latest update today somehow addressed it, but that's only a guess.
I logged out of steam, restarted the game and it seemed to fix it currently. Good to know I am not going mad ... thank you
Okay three issues with newest
1. I had someone become catatonic, a week later, she got up from bed, walked a few feet, and then was back in bed for several days catatonic again. She had the catharsis mood boost and everything. Very annoying.
2. When a colonist goes on a walk, can they be made to not path into rivers? Kind of annoying to get the mood debuff because the moron decides to walk in a river.
3. We got a mission to rescue one of my colonists mother, I lost faction relations when she died, seems really unfair that they would give a crap or blame us for that.
Had a manhunter deer pack which was fully repelled on randy extreme by 5 autocannons and a miniturret, which exploded. Usually can't quite beat manhunter packs at that stage with turrets so on extreme so that's different. I think this actually has less to do with the cannon firepower, so much as the lowered power requirements. Pretty easy to spam turrets when a single geothermal vent supplies all of them.
It does feel like however you balance it, autocannons are either a replacement for miniturrets, or end up being just not worth it. Currently they're better than miniturrets, so I think it's now always build all autoturrets after you can afford them. I can confirm as a user posted above, that because they're quite tanky, you can even put one or two ahead to just take hits and maybe later on make it plasteel.
They are initially weaker than miniturrets, however, which probably explains why one of the users above said they were bad even after the update. But their tankiness imo makes them superior in the long run.
One interesting note: Because they're quite tanky and actually useful now, it makes sense to just spam them everywhere rather than worry about explosions, so it will probably just end up being one giant ball of death. With miniturrets, you can only fit so much in an area due to explosive death, but with the cannons, even though they're 3x3, you can just fill most of the area with them.
Edit: 4th pyro attack in two weeks. Just banishing him.
Quote from: JavaWho on June 26, 2018, 11:42:06 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on June 26, 2018, 10:46:36 PM
I posted a similar glitch last night; the glitch disappeared this afternoon, testing it with a save game from the exact point where I noticed it. I'm guessing the latest update today somehow addressed it, but that's only a guess.
I logged out of steam, restarted the game and it seemed to fix it currently. Good to know I am not going mad ... thank you
Glad it worked...you're quite welcome. And in turn, thank you Tynan.
(Previously: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg413243#msg413243)
I'm nearly at the end of the second summer on this run. I just realized that the Volcanic Winter that had started in early Decembary is still going. Over 40 days! My crops are coming in, but I think too slowly for me to prepare for the coming winter. All of my muffalos lost their obedience training, and two scyther raids have shredded my boar corp. I may be able to get my muffalos back into fighting discipline, but this takes a lot of colonist time during harvest season, and doesn't even guarantee colonist safety since I have to let the training lapse for so long. I almost never do caravans, but I think I'll use my otherwise idle muffalos to sell some trash for grains. This feels difficult, but fair. There are a lot of ways this colony could go wrong, but I have options.
Here's my summary for animal swarm strategies on 1.0:
- Animals on permanent summer maps are cheap. Animals on colder maps are expensive. Herbivores on very cold maps are probably not viable at all.
- If you can train a lot of animals for release, combat becomes trivial. If you can't, then the animals are still helpful, but combat remains dangerous.
- Alpacas are an outlier in terms of power. Tame, herbivorous, releasable, and woolly.
I've made it to the hidden ship to discover there are only 18 cryopods. Nooooo!!! I refuse to leave a pawn behind (other than the several incapacitated ones). I hadn't researched any ship items yet so I set up a base.
Now, I'm not sure if this is a bug or designed but my wealth is at zero. Considering the strength of my crew, any raids, poison ships, etc that have been sent are a piece of cake to take out. Additionally, visitors have taken pity on me because "I'm having such a hard time" so they give me gifts. Perhaps setting up a base here should count towards wealth so the events scale and I won't receive gifts.
(https://www.screencast.com/t/7FisLrv9OVyh)
https://www.screencast.com/t/7FisLrv9OVyh
New build going up! I did a pretty heavy rework to how recreation is handled, I hope it'll be a lot more understandable as well as less failure-prone from here on. Specifically, recreation requirements scale with expectations, the player gets a useful alert if he needs more recreation, and pawns won't spend a ton of time on recreation types they're already bored of.
Raw change log.
Added cocoa tree, for growing your own chocolate. This is a useful recreation source at high expectations levels. It takes a lot of grower skill and sowing time, as well as research.
Explain armor system better in armor rating stat.
Adjusted population intent balance slightly to not be so aggressive about adding people at very low populations.
Increase shotgun stagger, slightly buff autopistol and slightly debuff revolver.
When a recreation tolerance hits 50%, we now disable taking job of that recreation type until it falls to 30%. "Bored". So instead of endlessly doing the same recreation activity which they aren't getting anything from, pawns will have an unfulfilled recreation need instead until more variety of recreation is available.
On recreation tooltip, we now mention the recreation types available current expectations and tolerance fall rate.
Need recreation variety alert now lists kinds from items (chemical, gluttonous).
Added more detail to "need recreation variety" alert. It mentions current expectations level. It lists the recreation kinds extant on the current map, and which building they come from. It says you can check a building's recreation kinds in its stats.
Expectations and joy tolerance rework. Recreation tolerance drop per day now varies based on expectations. "Need recreation sources" alert now activates whenever there are not enough recreation sources for the specific expectations level on any PlayerHome map. Expectations levels are now defined by defs and queried from a central utility class.
Adjusted quest reward item quality generation.
We explain how to reorder colonist bar in a tooltip now.
Increase centipedes points cost (since their weapons are a bit better now). Sped up centipedes a bit.
Bomb explosion now has stopping power.
Fix 3460: Doe graphics look unusually big
Fix 3462: Watermill generator 'turbulence from another watermill' updating issues
Added flak jacket. Still using jacket art.
Refugees now get "Rescued" thought on rescued.
Reduced frequency of family members of colonists by 50%.
Trade quests now only accept normal or better quality items.
Fix: TryAppendRelationsWithColonistsInfo() doesn't append newlines correctly (no newlines before relationship info).
Bomb and Flame now have defaultArmorPenetration 0.05. Added DamageDef.defaultStoppingPower.
Animals tab now accepts nameless animals as a workaround for nameless animals bug.
Fix 3452: Memory leak detected: map (Map-0) is still live when it shouldn't be; this map will not be mentioned again
Caravan interface: "pause" -> "rest".
Overall armor calculations now correctly handle >100% armor ratings.
FYI Build is taken back for now, there's a few errors I need to fix. Will be back up soon.
Well I managed to check the update out before you reverted it. While I absolutely love the fact that we can now get our own chocolate its a bit weird to harvest trees and get ready to eat chocolate. I think you should make it work like drugs so it needs to be refined into a usable product.
The flak jacket is a nice addition but with the introduction of all these flak protection items devilstrand has become largely useless. The only item worth making now is a button down shirt, everything else has better protection items. With devilstrands minimum plant skill of 10 and the 22.5 growing days its a very difficult crop to get grown. I think most people will just go for flak items immediately and ignore devilstrand entirely.
One thing I noticed is the flak jacket is under tailoring but the flak pants are under machining. So I imagine the flak jacket is most likely wrongly categorised.
Error fixed, new build is up again.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, especially hero first-time posters giving in-depth play reports. This kind of thing is extremely useful. I can't reply to each one individually but I am definitely reading each one carefully.
---
Also reminder, there is still a moratorium this thread against:
-Theorycrafting - Please write things related to specific up-to-date play experiences, pure theory is no good
-Open-ended ideas - Put em' in Suggestions please, especially if they don't relate specifically to 1.0
-Bugs - Please post a thread in Bugs forum
Posts of any of those three may get removed or moved to another forum. Thanks.
I feel that the gold cost of royal beds should be increased; I'm only mid-game and I already have more than enough gold to give everybody royal beds, and then some (19 beds for 7 colonists). Granted, I did crack an ancient danger which contributed largely towards that, but this is still somewhat reasonably achievable.
64 bit - nice. When work isn't looking I'll give it a go!
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 27, 2018, 05:59:42 AM
I feel that the gold cost of royal beds should be increased; I'm only mid-game and I already have more than enough gold to give everybody royal beds, and then some (19 beds for 7 colonists). Granted, I did crack an ancient danger which contributed largely towards that, but this is still somewhat reasonably achievable.
I actually couldn't afford them in almost every game because I spent all my gold on boinics. I even had a quest that rewarded 320 gold.
To be brief:
Thanks a lot for the 64 Bit version. This helps a lot.
A lot of improvements, which i am positive about. Some negative things as well.
BUT: I can't wait for stable release and my mods to be updated to have my personalised version of RimWorld again.
My Feedback based on topics:
Caravans:
- UI changes are good.
- Choosing a destination during planing helps a lot.
- Like the Caravan Forage abiliy.
- Information about terrain is good.
- Information during planing is very good.
- Traveling seems to be faster now.
- I have now more reasons to create trade caravans on my own in order to make some silver.
- Haven't tried pods yet.
Colony:
- Several Icons and objects look diffrent now. Visibly they fit all together ( like refinery and com station as example ).
- New Stack icons ( beside steel temporary change ) are nice too look at. The "shadow" 3d style on plasteel or silve as example.
- While on this topic: The new Silver icon is confusing. Got to get used to it..
- Production Objects ( tables ) are looking diffrent, but i still mixed up artistic table with stone block table.
- Reason for item deterioration helps to identify missed roofs.
Food:
- Food rot timer showing days instead of quadrums helps my plan and decisions on harvesting.
Crafting:
- Workbills changes are going good forward, but i will still prefer "Better Work Management Mod".
- Tailoring objects can be produced quicker as in B18.
Pawns:
- Intelligent hauling and clean up of stacks. solves the need for 2 mods.
- Recreation: Noticed too late, that i need at least 4 activies to have a happpy pawn. Solution: 3 items can be build quite fast and dont need high quality. Pin(dex), table/chair(social), chesstable/chair (Celebral), Automatic: wandering/pray(meditative).
- Clothing change time makes sense.
- The new "Timeframe" to treat diseases is good. Finaly a doctor can have his morning coffe.
Animals:
- Animal care is now a full time job, once over 30 Animals, for 1 Pawn. ( 5 haulers / 22 Milk animal jobs, 18 wool animal jobs )
Half of the doing is somehow to re-train all animals. Dont know if this is a feature, that animals loose memory or if it's a bug.
- I dislike that my Animal care taker uses chocolate for training.
Combat:
I haven't expericed anything extraordinary.
But i will switch to Combat Extended Mod as soone a Version is released. Sorry Tynan !
Economy:
The Economy statements are based on how hard it is to get the resources to produce 1 item and how much it is worth while selling.
- Creating normal and below qualtiy items for sale ( weapons, art and furniture ) is not worth it.
- Weapons are only worth selling if they are master quality.
- Art, especialy with marble, makes some good cash with exceptional or higher quality.
- The need for advanced components creates a new step / milestone for a technology access.
/Pope
Edit: No end-game 1.0 experience yet.
Thanks for the feedback Pope.
I wish the predators would look a little farther for a meal. My rich explorer's cat got eaten by a wolf when there was a herd of pigs right around the corner. Later in the game my rich explorer got mauled by a different timber wolf when out on a recreational walk. I like how predators can be dangerous but I wish they wouldn't hang around our colony and eat our pets.
Quote from: nowise on June 27, 2018, 08:24:21 AM
I wish the predators would look a little farther for a meal. My rich explorer's cat got eaten by a wolf when there was a herd of pigs right around the corner. Later in the game my rich explorer got mauled by a different timber wolf when out on a recreational walk. I like how predators can be dangerous but I wish they wouldn't hang around our colony and eat our pets.
I like that they take the opportunity of the closest animal, pet, or human. However, I do agree they should maybe at least try to stay a little further from the activity of the base itself when possible. Seems more wild-animal-like to avoid contact until required.
I too must wonder the need for flak jackets considering that devilstrand since forever has been the go to over-armor set that players invest in. What is then the point of devilstrand clothes?
While I appreciate the pod saying what's inside it, it needs a lot of work. I put a ton of pemmican and it keeps repeating pemmican like 5 times before getting to the meds. I was expecting something like the caravan window, but overall it's an improvement.
As for autocannons, the biggest factor of me not building them is my inability to see the "too close" radius. It gives me an overall radius sure, but not the smaller one that raiders can pass by. As for their effectiveness, they're good! I tested this by shoving 8 centipides in a big ol box and have four turrets shooting them at optimal range. The cannons eventually blew up, but they took down 6 of them quite handily. Their health is high enough to tank.
However this was a different case with enemy pawns that took cover. I put a single mercenary-heavy with a minigun behind some rocks and the man shot the cannon 8 times before nailing him twice. They hit HARD, taking off two limbs, but they're too inaccurate to be reliable. In short, I think their accuracy needs buffing, not their damage.
Also, double shots from both the charge rifle and assault rifle is very sad. Players I think prefer that burst shot, and seeing that go away hurts. I know balance and all that, but I wonder if both the AR and charge rifle can keep the three shot burst.
I am unsure about the chocolate. It's a late game snack, but at this point I might as well brew pekoe. Chocolate grows on trees whereas both hops and psychoid plants can be made inside an indoor greenhouse. I really have little reason to make chocolate considering tea gives a good enough buff and can be done easily and beer has the social interaction stuff. If it were cocoa on the other hand, I can see players doing them because players do love making rec rooms and serving warm cocoa.
Yeah, with flak pants\jackets, there isn't much point in growing devilstrand. Well unless you wanna make money via clothing trade, i guess..
It'd be nice if devilstrand and especially hyperweave clothing could substitute for a decent light armor, without having to be at least masterwork to have some effect on survivability.
Not sure if this is a bug or not, call it a suggestion.
Deer (doe/buck) don't have a stat for revenge chance on harmed/on tame fail. Is this because those stats are 0%? If so I think it would be clearer to show the 0% than have no stat.
I know in previous versions I've lost colonies to deer revenge, so I'm wary.
Although I did see this:
QuoteAdjusted chances of various animals going manhunter on failed taming attempts and on being harmed.
so they might genuinely be nicer.
Been enjoying 1.0 alot of loving all these changes, even if the change get change in the next build but I just notice some thing, we don't have a axe weapon and I think it would be pretty cool to have a axe, maybe it do have brunt and half sharp depending on which axe it is. Just a random idea honesty cause I feel like I'm missing at axe to complete the weapon triangle (now i think I play too much fire emblem)
So, played for ages, never really posted, but I've grabbed the unstable 1.0 and played on cassandra rough using the single pawn start on a year-round growing site, further south.
Just to get this out of the way, I'm having a great time. I love the game ... every time I come back to waste a few hours over the years I end up going down the rimworld rabbit hole and play for a few weeks again.
On to the other stuff ...
I've found it nearly impossible to keep standings up and have pretty much let all factions slide.
I couldn't start close to other factions due to the standing loss of doing that, I don't see many trade caravans making it hard to get standing, and the ones that did come have a *very* limited selection on what they offer and what they'll buy.
Every time I tried a caravan early, my pawns died of malaria. Eventually I moved the slider to allow for more than one base and sent them with medicine along the way and save scummed a caravan to success.
The rain soaking wet debuff just sort of gets annoying, even at reduced level of 6 vs 10. And it lasts 6 hours? I went out in the pouring rain this morning to change a car seat, it's been an hour, I'm over it. Maybe dusters could prevent that for rain, or duster + hat? I went through a rainy period, it got pretty old, pretty fast.
The soaking wet debuff for pawns is also annoying when you plant next to a river. If they hate water so much, maybe don't stand in it to harvest. There is dry ground right over there, stand there to harvest. I gave up and built bridges around my growing area.
They also seem to give up on the bridge if the path takes them too far from it. Again, if they hate water so much, the path over the bridge I built to get to the other side of the map should be super important to use for path finding. I gave up and built more bridges on the map.
The wildlife tab is great, but led to the 'why are you soaking wet, I guess I'll build more bridges' when they'd go off to hunt things I selected from that tab and insisted on going through water to do it.
Rain and the soaking wet debuff has also expanded my use of roofs, which in turn forced me to expand my use of lights. Can't have a roof over every outside path between buildings and no lights, then they're in the dark. :)
Cleaning is annoying. I have to switch to manual priorities and set everyone to 1 on cleaning, let them deep clean the whole base, then switch back to the checked box priorities. I typically do this after everyone has recovered from a raid or large fight where they track blood and dirt everywhere, then don't want to clean up.
I've tried to use manual priorities for everything, but it never seems to work out very well. Odd things don't get done, so I switch back to check boxes, but then no one ever gets around to cleaning. It seems odd that I have to have a pawn that only has that checked, a maid, that's all you get to do. Don't get distracted, you clean.
If you walk into an area that's filthy, and you have clean ticked, tidy up a bit before moving on to the next thing maybe?
During my latest non-1.0 playthrough right before 1.0 came out, I'd learned how aggressive the insect infestations had become. I used to build exclusively in mountains after my initial small wood house, but it seems an intentional decision to make that non playable or at least very risky. You can cheese it with deep empty rooms, but even then, they'd instantly appear where you least want them to and kill someone before you could do something about it.
So, I like the indication of where they'll appear even if I dislike the change that makes mountain bases unplayable for me. I get it, too easy to defend, and having a base in the open has made combat more interesting.
Anyhow, I was surprised to see them appear on my current playthrough, since I'm building out in the open this time, but then noticed that 2 or 3 tiles from a small hill I mined out have the 'under mountain' roof type. That was all it took. Was disappointed. At least I was given a few seconds to evacuate before my first infestation ...
I have tons of world events I just ignore, rescues, trade, peace talks ... malaria and other diseases wiped out everyone, every time I tried to do anything on the world map early, other than one caravan I save scummed back far enough to avoid malaria, so yah, not sure how to travel more than a day away and not die unless I stop to build a base to deal with the constant threat of disease. Maybe I was just unlucky.
I feel like the world map and events are an awesome addition but are so incredibly risky at this level that they aren't worth going for them ... I always look at them and think, well, maybe when I have a few more pawns, or more pawns that don't have a movement debuff on them.
One last thing, so many conditions, so many pawns that move slower and slower. I have 11 at the moment, only 3 move at full speed. Sending the only 3 healthy pawns I have out on a caravan that will likely die of disease so they move faster and have a higher chance of success ... one last reason not to use the world map.
Honestly, I risked those three last night to go get some mechanite serum, see if I can't fix a few of those movement debuffs, it was 5 days through mountains to get there ... chickens ambushed them, was a hard fight, but they prevailed, now to build a fire and roast some chickens for food before they head home (and likely die of malaria along the way!)
Thanks for the game, too much fun.
Diseases are a pain, especially infections, but that's why you send a pawn with good meds and good doctoring skill. I always send one medic out for caravan. Once my caravan runner got the plague halfway through his route, but seeing as he had 8 doctor and 30 medicine, he was able to get home safely and heal.
Caravans are very much a mid-game thing. Early game if you know what you're doing. Buying some medicine from traders and keeping them for emergencies I find is a way to ensure safe caravan runs.
QuoteDiseases are a pain, especially infections, but that's why you send a pawn with good meds and good doctoring skill. I always send one medic out for caravan. Once my caravan runner got the plague halfway through his route, but seeing as he had 8 doctor and 30 medicine, he was able to get home safely and heal.
Maybe I don't understand this mechanic and caravans well enough, but will medicine get used as they travel if they have it and have someone good at medicine or do I need to stop somehow and treat them, then continue?
Quote from: EdgarDruin on June 27, 2018, 10:41:15 AM
Maybe I don't understand this mechanic and caravans well enough, but will medicine get used as they travel if they have it and have someone good at medicine or do I need to stop somehow and treat them, then continue?
Yes they will! I'm not too sure who tends who, but medicine does get used. I assume the one with the highest Doctor skill does so.
Quote from: EdgarDruin on June 27, 2018, 10:14:28 AM
Cleaning is annoying. I have to switch to manual priorities
Spot on for me in real life :D everything is automatic except for boring shit like cleaning, i have to switch to "manual mode" and give an actual damn... It's mostly boring in the early game, now that i have 10+ colonists i think it works pretty well with a few that has cleaning on 1.
A couple of things noted:
I had an animal trainer with a Labrador on follow. Somehow the dog went through the intended door first and was running around in circles just outside the door while the pawn stalled and just stood. Like he was waiting for the door to be clear. I have only seen it twice (may happen more but I am unsure).
On the big map when moving caravans the "developer console" could not be cleared. Had to increase the UI to 1.25 to be able to click buttons. I attempted to clear, close and save (I think that is the third choice) but none removed it.
Infection does seem pretty nasty all of a sudden. As others mentioned I wait until late to travel, take a medic and good medicine. Had some very close to death (and die as well).
My faction standings are going badly also. If there is way to being them up other than selling items to towns one at a time it should have a tool tip.
I will keep plugging away.
I started a colony next to a huge river, planning to use watermills for power. However, the roughly 45 degree angle of the river made it very difficult to find places I could build them. Please consider allowing more of the building to be placed over water so they're a bit less frustrating to use on rivers that don't play by strict cardinal direction rules.
Time for some synthetic impressions with the 1.0 unstable:
Cassandra Rough (Sorry, I also prefer the old designations.), spawning on an Extreme Desert w/ a modified Rich Explorer (Charge Rifle, 40 Survival Meals, 450 Steel, 300 Wood, 30 Glitterworld Medicine, 30 Components and 30 Gold), and Refugee, Chased Refugee and Drop-Pod Refugee disabled.
Dargs the Prodigal Student landed on Wilfred's World in the year 5500 as part of a reality TV deal back home: get shot at a Rimworld with a generous supply package and a recorder implant, then get back home or die trying.
In the spring of 5501, a wild man wandered into the desert near Dargs' stronghold. Dargs was shocked when the man, who was clearly incapable of violence, decided to hunt The Most Dangerous Game!
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/946202030215924158/24C007BB8FFA5F8E5845A23F9184742E5EDA413C/)
Midway through year 5501, Dargs' Charge Rifle stopped firing in three-round bursts, and he was forced to rely on the two-shot setting. Dargs was sad: even though the two-shot burst did more damage per shot, the three-round burst had become like an old friend to him. (OOC: I much preferred the three-round burst over the new two-round burst. The two-round burst is a bit more flexible since it doesn't lock your character in place for as long, but three shots means three rolls to hit. It feels a lot more likely to wiff an entire volley with the new setup)
By spring of 5502, Dargs had largely set up his fortified compound. Steel was in short supply, since he was absolutely terrible at mining. The plan had been to recruit some locals with promises of "exposure" on the Glitterworld vid networks, but so far, only two raiders had survived their attacks on Dargs' stronghold; both of whom suffered from debilitating drug addictions. (OOC: I could just be having bad luck, but it seems like more raiders die outright in the 1.0 build.)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/946202030215924611/E45192A787CBB8DA72E5FA295B84A59ADAE0BA62/)
It took until the Fall of 5502 until Dargs could recruit a local worth mentioning: a Misandrist Cannibal named Kumiko. She still couldn't mine worth beans, but she had a passion for scientific pursuits, and Dargs was able to bribe her into joining with the prospect of her very own High Tech Research Bench (OOC: I swear, this is compensation for Bat in my last playthrough taking 2 years to recruit: I recruited Kumiko on the FIRST TRY! *Does a jig*)
It's the end of winter, 5502, and I've got Autocannons researched, along with the Smelter for a semi-decent steel supply. By next year, I hope to try out these new Autocannons on the poor saps who keep trying to get in the way of REALITY TELEVISION!
EDIT: Sorry, can't seem to find the Spoiler command. Am I missing something obvious? I tried both [S ][/S ] and [SPOILER][/SPOILER]
are ancient danger now without mechanoids? I start couple of games and right away open them up inside only some loot and cryptosleep caskets.If so its really can ease early game,I often found inside excellent power armor,lots of luciferium or some bionics parts
Quote from: Dargaron on June 27, 2018, 11:50:31 AM
Dargs was sad: even though the two-shot burst did more damage per shot, the three-round burst had become like an old friend to him.
I agree: the new two-shot system for both ARs just doesn't feel right, although it was necessary for the new armour system to stop them just hopelessly bouncing off of anything that may impose a minor challenge. That being said, the old setup would be very nice to have back, even if AP has to be forced to higher values than they should be.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 27, 2018, 10:34:24 AM
Caravans are very much a mid-game thing. Early game if you know what you're doing. Buying some medicine from traders and keeping them for emergencies I find is a way to ensure safe caravan runs.
@1.0 Cass rough, re: disease, infection, and misc while travelling in caravan
I have experienced some difficult loss of pawns to both disease and infection while on a caravan, my fault totally, but often this is a major buzz kill. I'll spare the stories because they are common enough. I am an experienced RW player and know the risks. Two thoughts though:
1) So many early offered quests provides the (unintended?) incentive: "The game gives me so many early quests, perhaps I am being a whimp in not taking more chances on the world map?" ...and then crash, and I have killed another colony because I lose half or more of the pawns on an adventure for which I was ill prepared. Consider reducing # of offered quests if a player has X many outstanding unexpired quests on the map. Suggest that quests currently without expiration be given an expiration albeit a very long one (years). Request option to "forget/decline/ignore" quests and remove them from the map after perhaps half or 3/4 of their lifetime is past (to prevent player quest shopping).
2) I dislike the "you don't have enough food" dialogue box for caravans but it is important for new players. Here is a way to make it better. Add 3 additional checks/ messages to the existing box (no new warning boxes please!). 2a) Check medical skill level of pawns... msg "Warning: the risk of disease and infection is very high for caravans, consider bringing a skilled medic with (7?) skill level before leaving." 2b) Check # of meds... msg "Warning: the risk of disease and infection is very high for caravans, consider bringing at least (2x?) meds per pawn/ animal before leaving." 2c) Check # of beds/bedrolls. "Warning: colonists will suffer a mood penalty while sleeping on the ground, consider bringing a bed or bedroll for each traveller to improve their mood." (EDIT: There is also a substantial enough risk of increased infection for sleeping on ground, that could be mentioned too.)
Quote from: Zombull on June 27, 2018, 11:43:15 AM
I started a colony next to a huge river, planning to use watermills for power. However, the roughly 45 degree angle of the river made it very difficult to find places I could build them. Please consider allowing more of the building to be placed over water so they're a bit less frustrating to use on rivers that don't play by strict cardinal direction rules.
You can build a bridge on a few squares to even it out and a spot to place the water mill. I had trouble finding a spot after the change in size and figured that out after a bit.
I tried simplifying the situation to mitigate the thing I brought up earlier w/ pawns choosing bad bills to work on, but it kept showing up. So I took a picture to explain things better. This is an issue around bill choice as a whole for pawns, but it also has directly to do with the new 1.0 feature of pawn assigned bills.
Note please, getting 20 smithing isn't the primary focus here. It's a matter of misperforming AI.
(https://imgur.com/a/ywpnJkd)
https://imgur.com/a/ywpnJkd (https://imgur.com/a/ywpnJkd)
Sorry I tried the image tag w/ the link but nothing is showing up.
I have exactly 2 smiths now. Ryan and Darya. They both sleep and eat about thirty tiles from their workbenches.
Ryan started on power armor assigned to him on the lower fabrication bench. Then he went to make a flak vest at the machining table. Then, when Darya was on break he began making components on the top fabrication bench.
Darya started on a charge rifle assigned to her on the top fabrication bench, then while on break the bench was taken and she started on flak pants on the machining table. Then she went to make components on the lower fabrication bench.
Half-Finished Bills:
Flak vest (Ryan)
Flak pants (Darya)
Shield Belt (Ryan, not worked on because of priority, expected behavior)
Power Armor (Ryan)
Charge Rifle (Darya)
Meanwhile both of them spend the entire day working on components. If I don't constantly micromanage them then this sort of thing happens and the work does not get done. If I do micromanage them, then I'm prioritizing manually and throwing off sleep/joy schedules. If I introduce more smiths into the equation, the situation only becomes worse. Sometimes, when the wrong person has reserved too many bills, I have to cancel those bills and waste some of the resources associated with them. This can happen over the course of a single in game day while I focus on something else.
Now this particular situation could be completely solved with a "Prioritize bills assigned specifically to me" Rule. However a "Prioritize bills I have started" rule would also be effective. The preemption rule is certainly more complex, and not entirely necessary, although it does seem like it could fit as default behavior.
Really enjoying the new caravan system, and the much more valuable trade requests from other factions. Adds some nice variety to the game. However I feel like faction relation drop-off is too severe, most positive interactions with other factions give only +5, so to get -10 every year feels too punishing imo. Especially now that you need to have +80 to request trade caravans - this also seems pretty extreme. The idea of relation drop-off over time is good, but I think it should be reduced to -5 instead of -10. And maybe requesting caravans could be unlocked at +40. Unless there are other ways of befriending factions that I'm not aware of (I noticed the offer money option was removed from the comms console).
Another slight complaint, fulfilling distant trade requests with transport pods is a right pain. Is it possible to fulfill these requests without sending an actual person over? Sorry if I've overlooked that, but if not I think that should definitely be a feature. Atm I have to load the pods with the goods to be traded, a person, a muffalo to carry things, food for that person and muffalo, and steel and components to build enough pod launchers and pods at the other end. Then I launch nearby (but not within 4 tiles or they get mad!), settle, and caravan to the faction. Then caravan back, build the pods and launch home again. Thats a lot of faff.
This could make caravan-ing seem pointless when you could just use transport pods for everything - you could increase the resource cost of them to compensate for it. The convenience should come at a cost. Oh and also (again sorry if this already exists and I just haven't realised), we should be able to add more pods to a group while we are deciding the contents. It sucks to load it all then realise you've gone over the weight limit, meaning you have to cancel and start all over again with more pods selected.
Apart from those small criticisms, loving 1.0 so far!
Quote from: EdgarDruin on June 27, 2018, 12:09:06 PM
Quote from: Zombull on June 27, 2018, 11:43:15 AM
I started a colony next to a huge river, planning to use watermills for power. However, the roughly 45 degree angle of the river made it very difficult to find places I could build them. Please consider allowing more of the building to be placed over water so they're a bit less frustrating to use on rivers that don't play by strict cardinal direction rules.
You can build a bridge on a few squares to even it out and a spot to place the water mill. I had trouble finding a spot after the change in size and figured that out after a bit.
I didn't try that because I read patch notes that said the watermill isn't allowed on bridges.
Edit: Moved rest of stuff to bug forum.
I feel like caravans should "auto-rest" if they're immobile anyways due to downed colonists.
Quote from: Zombull on June 27, 2018, 12:22:29 PM
Quote from: EdgarDruin on June 27, 2018, 12:09:06 PM
You can build a bridge on a few squares to even it out and a spot to place the water mill. I had trouble finding a spot after the change in size and figured that out after a bit.
I didn't try that because I read patch notes that said the watermill isn't allowed on bridges.
Ah, quite right, must be a change since I've done that. I deconstructed the one I had and it won't let me place it like that again.
Seems like there should be a tile amount to meet on solid ground, like at least 2 of the tiles in the white square placement area should be solid ground, the other two could be bridge.
Defeats the whole `you can even build on them` part of bridges imo.
A solution would be to add steel bridges that do allow building on them. Something needs to be done to help waterwheels on diagonal rivers... like a diagonal waterwheel.
Or add a landfill mechanic that will turn shallow water squares bordering buildable terrain into more buildable terrain.
I started this yesterday tho I think you didnt change anything about this matter. With this colony in cassandra extreme I received an overwhelming pirate raid. As soon as I saw it I knew that no save scumming in the world was gonna save me... However I forgot to save and when I loaded the raid was gone so I sadly cannot show you...
Here is a screenshot of wealth and colony. I think there were around 10 or more raiders in the raid. When I loaded I received a massive squirrel manhunter pack instead, tho it was much easier to deal with.
The research I have is not much either, just furniture and electricity and currently researching air cooling.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950251200961966/DF2006E010BC0D9D98810BE535A25AB931E7175A/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950251200961777/E31E77A54DE1A179A4DA783A78DC6B55BDC179A5/
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Another topic. Great bows cost 1600 research points in tribal start. They are just not worth it, its much easier to wait until enemies bring bolt action rifles. In fact I have already 2 of them and 2 smgs. I suggest to heavy nerf those research points, maybe to 500. Or idk, maybe a different approach... But if enemies bring automatic weapons, we can always steal them...
The order of colonist skills has changed, and I can't get used to it. I don't mind renaming skills, but I often think I found the perfect colonist only to find out it's not the case. It's like reading from right to left: possible, but time consuming.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 27, 2018, 01:02:03 PM
I started this yesterday tho I think you didnt change anything about this matter. With this colony in cassandra extreme I received an overwhelming pirate raid. As soon as I saw it I knew that no save scumming in the world was gonna save me... However I forgot to save and when I loaded the raid was gone so I sadly cannot show you...
Here is a screenshot of wealth and colony. I think there were around 10 or more raiders in the raid. When I loaded I received a massive squirrel manhunter pack instead, tho it was much easier to deal with.
The research I have is not much either, just furniture and electricity and currently researching air cooling.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950251200961966/DF2006E010BC0D9D98810BE535A25AB931E7175A/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950251200961777/E31E77A54DE1A179A4DA783A78DC6B55BDC179A5/
---
Another topic. Great bows cost 1600 research points in tribal start. They are just not worth it, its much easier to wait until enemies bring bolt action rifles. In fact I have already 2 of them and 2 smgs. I suggest to heavy nerf those research points, maybe to 500. Or idk, maybe a different approach... But if enemies bring automatic weapons, we can always steal them...
Comes down to base design. On my stream Saturday/Sunday I held larger raids than you describe with fewer pawns capable of violence. That's just how extreme is (and was in previous patches too).
You'll have a much harder time since you don't have a setup that lets you isolate some of the raiders, manipulate AI, or get shots w/o them returning fire.
Weapon tech progression in general is kind of borked. Not just on extreme, but on most difficulties above the midling ones the raid:wealth scaling has been such that even non-tribal can't possibly research weapons that outclass the raider weapons by much in a timely fashion, and looted weapons don't have a crafting time or resource cost. For tribal you're functionally guaranteed to be using plundered raider weapons unless you avoid doing so for self-imposed challenge, even on lower difficulties.
That's certainly consistent with history though, and it does mean you have to "use what you get" rather than uniformly craft a preferred weapon type. I'm not sure it's 100% optimal, but I don't know how I'd change it and it's not in a bad place right now really.
Alright here are some few notes, from yesterday, so previous build again. Sorry but is kinda hard to keep up with the quick updates.
- I can't tell how many times I need to trade with a passing ship and forgot there one was there, maybe a permanent notification would be a good QoL. Or alternatively, a small flashing light on comms would be a nice touch.
- Also we shouldn't be getting messages about trader leaving if we had comms off.
- I was getting used to the steel graphics, I've guess either would be fine, but silver is indeed off putting, it looks like a gray mesh, a sort of coinage format would fit better. Gold as well looks too similar to ambrosia.
- Shotgun armor penetration seems awfully low, lower than any other weapon, its supposed to be "close and personal" "shock and awe" kinda of weapon, but I fail to see their usefulness now.
- Noticed the new desiccated animals graphs, I've guess I was used to the purple blobs, but it looks alright, though different animals all look the same.
- I've said it before, but context mouse wheel scrolling on storage pane doesn't work, this is pretty annoying.
- I found it odd that my colonist were still having a rather high recreation tolerance, while I had nearly all recreation possible (horseshoe, poker, billards, flat Tv, telescope and even lots of drugs), butt this was previous build so you could have changed now.
- Brewing psychite pekoe should be moved from medical bench to brewing bench, this would help unchoke the first and make last more useful.
- I had recruited a new colonist with a long lasting "loved one sold" mood debuff, even though I may or may not have sold his loved one in the past (how would I even remember).
- Sowing trees: jesus christ these take a long ass time
- Trees growing more on rocky terrain, I though they sort of averaged out over the long run, but after a toxic fallout with a fully barren map, they still seemed to spawn awfully more on rocks
- I always find it odd how a lot of times pawns will prefer eating from my pemmican stash while there were plenty of simple and fine meals waiting.
- I got inspired surgery buff on someone with nill medical skill
- I got one colonist perma downed, he is a wimp and got the flu, so when I checked it he had only 15% pain threshold, seems wrong.
- It would be nice to have mortar targeting by just clicking on the pawn that's manning it, so you don't have to go all the way back across the map just to select it.
- There still isn't anyway for pawns to safely train melee, eg hunters can be given a bow and will gradually get better over time. But melee is pretty much not an option since they will either be forever low skill or face great risks fighting head on every time.
- Puppies don't seem to be massive druggies anymore, and that's when I was about to make restrictive zones. Now I have a "drug" stockpile in my rec room and dogs barely nibble at it. Now i don't remember seeing anything in the patch notes.
Regarding the armor overhaul, I still haven't got the chance to really train, but it felt odd seeing a flak vest having 110% piercing protection while the plate armor was much lower comparably. I think this comes from having both slashing and bullet damage bundled up in the same category, as opposed to having slash and piercing for example, its non intuitive what not what people would expect at a first glance. Of course a lot of the confusion stems from not actually having proper descriptions in-game, so most of us don't even know what's going on, but then again, you already seem to be working on it.
Oh yeah almost forgot it too, I was re-building my kitchen and forgot one of my colonist had a inspiration pending, ended up with legendary chair and ugly table, goddamn.
Last picture was my last caravan objective, I've ended up launching pods and walking the way back, still solid strategy. Setting everything up in time was hard, had to give up all other trade requests in the limited time. Not allowing low quality items anymore is kinda of low blow, but maybe it wouldn't matter,
[attachment deleted due to age]
Wow... okay so deep drilling can cause infestations now. That was quite a shock. The warning was generous enough for my colonists to get away at least. Outside the base this sounds like it would be free food, although since this occurred right on top of my autocannons in min range, it caused a bit of damage.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 27, 2018, 02:04:48 PM
Comes down to base design. On my stream Saturday/Sunday I held larger raids than you describe with fewer pawns capable of violence. That's just how extreme is (and was in previous patches too).
You'll have a much harder time since you don't have a setup that lets you isolate some of the raiders, manipulate AI, or get shots w/o them returning fire.
Tynan said that he was rebalancing the game to avoid the killbox only strategy but with this kind of difficulty, if I have to do what you say I might as well create a trap corridor. In all my previous plays I always rush that, a trap corridor that goes into a "killbox" without turrets, just my pawns. But I thought he was trying to make it that we didnt have to resort to cheese tactics.
Finally got a creativity inspiration on my one-eyed lvl 16 builder, which netted me a legendary bed. And yeah, ok. I admit, that getting a legendary bed with friggin 160% resting effectiveness is kind of too good to make it happen more often. That guy can now sleep like 5-6 hours, instead of solid 8 all the time. +25% work time is definitely worth it. I guess legendary quality got a nice buff. However since masterwork ones give only 125% those could use a slight increase in probability for lvl 20 skilled pawns. 4 out 100 tries is really a bit too harsh.
Also as couple other people mentioned, most inspirations i was getting were quite useless. Like a surgery inspiration on my main hunter with literally zero medical skills or shooting frenzy on my lvl 2 shooter with cataract (naturally Randy being an ass didn't send me anyone for him to shoot\miss at). My crafters kept getting move speed buffs (those are nice, but massively inferior to those oneshot creativity inspirations). I'd really like to see those inspirations tied strictly to pawns, that can make a good use of those. Like if a pawn doesn't have a dominant skill - he gets mostly moving or workspeed inspires, if the guy has highly developed medicine - it has a much bigger chance to get appropriate surgery inspiration than anything else (especially if he also has a passion for that kind of work - this should have an effect on probability as well), same for artists and crafters. Since it isn't that easy to keep them in the right mood, rewards for that should be more useful.
One more thing: Planting trees... man. It takes ages! Even though its now a perfect training for growers, its way too much. Not only that - since we no longer can grow them in "greenhouses" due to no roof restriction - it also takes ages to grow them, unless you play cheesy year-round growtime maps. It does make sense, i guess (though there are giant greenhouses for trees IRL), but this feels kind of broken.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 27, 2018, 02:24:56 PM
- I found it odd that my colonist were still having a rather high recreation tolerance, while I had nearly all recreation possible (horseshoe, poker, billards, flat Tv, telescope and even lots of drugs), butt this was previous build so you could have changed now.
This seemed like it was fixed in the last update, wasn't in the 50s anymore and more like the 20-30s for me.
From what I've experienced in my run which generally has a very dirty kitchen, there has been absolutely no food poisoning as of late despite the poor hygiene. Perhaps food poisoning chance from poor/good room cleanliness should be an offset rather than a factor, but then there will be oddities such as level 20 cooks having the same poison chances as level 10 cooks in the same room.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 27, 2018, 02:55:24 PM
Tynan said that he was rebalancing the game to avoid the killbox only strategy but with this kind of difficulty, if I have to do what you say I might as well create a trap corridor. In all my previous plays I always rush that, a trap corridor that goes into a "killbox" without turrets, just my pawns. But I thought he was trying to make it that we didnt have to resort to cheese tactics.
If you use cheezy tactics you're likely to get countered, however this doesn't mean you shouldn't still build defensive fortifications. Using common sense seems to go a long way.
Like for example in pic attached, I use a combo of sandbags and walls to create a sort of embrasure like effect, roofing seems to have no effect anymore (though why not Tynan?) though it still looks better. I've placed the turret slightly in front in case it explodes.
But the thing is, I only got the test defense like this once (In phoebe rough), likewise a big raid of pirates, since they also flee at about half causalities, I was able to repel them nearly injury free. But since then I nearly only got events in which that defense was useless, like raider surprise attack via pods, a couple mechanoid ships and a couple bug infestation.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Randy rough, naked brutality, flat arid shrubland with yearlong harvest, river in the middle. Loving every change I've seen so far.
First thing to notice is the difficulty. Up until alpha 17(?) I'd always played randy extreme but some changes bumped me down to rough difficulty to enjoy myself. This game started slow which should be expected since you have no food and so much to do but the challenge was great. Most other games I'd always feel well behind what the game had to throw at me with raids. If you started a game only getting things like heat waves and manhunter packs, when a raid finally did arrive it would have 2-3x as many guys with far superior firepower. Attacks now seem far more balanced and I find myself happy dealing with raids, ancient ship parts and manhunter packs knowing I have a fighting chance without having to resort to killboxes and trap tunnels. First time in as long as I can remember not having to build either. I'm reading the complaints about difficulty and I honestly can't understand what people are talking about.
Second thing is electricity. I was quick to notice how good the watermills were with constant power so I quickly got 2 installed. The fact that trees are almost impossible to come by without trade due to 4 back-to-back beaver/fallout incidents balanced out how OP they were for myself but I could see how they could be overused so the updates were needed. They are much needed in the game though. Most of my playthroughs end up with me running multiple colonies and often they would be attacked simultaneously with 100+ raiders. This would lead to necessary killboxes which would take crazy amounts of power and when zzzts happened, the explosions would be huge. This lead to me using a circuit breaker mod as the only way combat this problem. Having another way to get constant power, with the lower electricity requirements and not needing killboxes seems to have eliminated this frustration for me so far. Awesome
Better quest rewards and better map control actually have me excited to get back out in the world where before it just wasn't worth the risk without having a crack team of bionic snipers on the ready to blast to the rescue in transport pods.
Faction relations are more interesting now. Good choice removing donations from the comms console as before I'd have so much silver in that I would just hire out all of my defensive needs as needed. I'm allied with 2 factions but still haven't had them help me at all. I managed to go from ally with one, accidentally capturing one of their men in an escape pod bringing us hostile, to then back to allies. For my super poor little colony to maintain such good relations, again makes me wonder about complaints of the current relationship loss.
Bridges, aforementioned watermills and underwater conduits were much needed as rivers before would just cut your colony in two. With future fishing and hopefully boat attack mods, we just keep getting closer to making cool coastal towns. Since most successful real world cities started near water, I always found it strange that Rimworld would teach you that the opposite was better.
New armor system is great and seeing the occasional bullet bounce off of scythers made things a little more exciting.
Infestations giving you a little time to react was needed. Too many instant deaths before led me to be hyper-vigilant about filling in roofed areas which defeated the fun of caves for me without another counter. I have had both deep drilling and "natural" infestations now and with the prep time and new smaller attack numbers, it was another fun doable attack instead of a Starship Troopers sized bug attack appearing from the corner of a bedroom.
64-bit, adding more bionics to vanilla, copy/pasting bills, controlling who can do each bill, etc. Awesome. Keep up the good work
Quote from: Zombull on June 27, 2018, 12:57:09 PM
Or add a landfill mechanic that will turn shallow water squares bordering buildable terrain into more buildable terrain.
Standard watermill design includes a channel to 'force' water from the source (river) into a suitable chute (& its outflow, natch) to attain max power output; they're not built directly on the river bank. Could this design strategy be accomplished without getting into 'z-level' territory? It would certainly ease placement of w'wheels..
Possibly make the w'wheel building a 2-step processs: first dig your chute appropriately (with miners?), then plop the building b/p?
Quote from: Alenerel on June 27, 2018, 02:55:24 PM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 27, 2018, 02:04:48 PM
Comes down to base design. On my stream Saturday/Sunday I held larger raids than you describe with fewer pawns capable of violence. That's just how extreme is (and was in previous patches too).
You'll have a much harder time since you don't have a setup that lets you isolate some of the raiders, manipulate AI, or get shots w/o them returning fire.
Tynan said that he was rebalancing the game to avoid the killbox only strategy but with this kind of difficulty, if I have to do what you say I might as well create a trap corridor. In all my previous plays I always rush that, a trap corridor that goes into a "killbox" without turrets, just my pawns. But I thought he was trying to make it that we didnt have to resort to cheese tactics.
What differentiates "cheese" from "not cheese"? I consider it a major boost of confidence that Tynan didn't bring these terms up when discussing strategy/tactic strength, because it's functionally meaningless...often even in the context of one person.
Ultimately, you are in a scenario where by design you need to reliably beat statistically similar attackers that outnumber 2:1, 3:1, or more. If you are fighting a person with equal ability to yourself, this is impossible. No matter what, you're going to do something that results in leveling those odds, or you're going to lose. What makes some ways to do this "cheese" but not other ways? Most people who use "cheese" or "exploit" as a term don't know...they can't actually define it even on their own terms in a self-consistent fashion.
I can't see how simply making lots of walls/doors everywhere and beating down raiders one at a time with melee could possibly be construed as "cheese" for example.
Also be careful - armor rework has non-trivial implications for the utility of deadfall traps. That might not be something on which you can rely to carry vs these numbers. Micromanagement adjustments to the AI changes will be consistently the most robust/rapidly adaptive :).
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 27, 2018, 04:49:05 PM
What differentiates "cheese" from "not cheese"? I consider it a major boost of confidence that Tynan didn't bring these terms up when discussing strategy/tactic strength, because it's functionally meaningless...often even in the context of one person.
Well deep down everyone knows whats "cheezy", for example building a door at the edge of map and having roof falldown kill raiders.
For me it is if something is sensible and intuitive, as if a completely new player to Rimworld would think of that, as opposed to only veterans of the game know about them from hours and hours of playing the game with every possible strategy. So I think it comes down to, if you're only able to survive using these cheezy techniques then something might be wrong.
And believe me I had my time doing wild trap mazes that lead to some sort of killbox, and I rather not have to rely on them. And in current state of the game, even if a raid goes terribly wrong it barely means game over, since they just steal somethings or someones and go away.
Quote from: Snafu_RW on June 27, 2018, 04:29:41 PM
Standard watermill design includes a channel to 'force' water from the source (river) into a suitable chute (& its outflow, natch) to attain max power output; they're not built directly on the river bank. Could this design strategy be accomplished without getting into 'z-level' territory? It would certainly ease placement of w'wheels..
Possibly make the w'wheel building a 2-step processs: first dig your chute appropriately (with miners?), then plop the building b/p?
Talking about realistic waterwheel would need some realistic water flow simulation, which believe is something really non-trivial. And believe the word you were trying to use is "funneling the water". It would also mean some form of terraforming which implies much more balance issues.
So I think it should just be like a regular windmill, having variable output, but much slower fluctuation through the seasons.
QuoteWell deep down everyone knows whats "cheezy"
No, they don't. They really don't.
If you tried to give a list of criteria that defines future cheese in a way that separates it from standard gameplay, you'd fail. You'd violate your own standards, either by defining playing the game as cheese or not actually discriminating tactics.
In 1.0 (and every previous iteration of the game I've played) it's possible to kill a centipede within the first few days of the game and take no damage whatsoever. Without building anything. Is that consistent with your "intuition"? I'd love to see the criteria you'd come up with that would properly separate the requisite actions as "cheese", still play the game yourself, and not be incoherent in the process.
But if you can't list that criteria, offhand right now, then you don't know what cheese is. Not even on your own terms. That goes for anybody else who believes they know it intuitively too.
That's no way to balance a game or make it play well. I'm grateful, very grateful given my experience elsewhere, that Rimworld's development has not fallen into this trap.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 27, 2018, 05:22:11 PM
Quote from: Snafu_RW on June 27, 2018, 04:29:41 PM
Standard watermill design includes a channel to 'force' water from the source (river) into a suitable chute (& its outflow, natch) to attain max power output; they're not built directly on the river bank. Could this design strategy be accomplished without getting into 'z-level' territory? It would certainly ease placement of w'wheels..
Possibly make the w'wheel building a 2-step processs: first dig your chute appropriately (with miners?), then plop the building b/p?
Talking about realistic waterwheel would need some realistic water flow simulation, which believe is something really non-trivial
That's fairynuff, but as z-lvls aren't to be considered (& considering the many other examples of simplification already extant) I feel it's more lore-consistent than having such a huge building effort be an easy escape from the 'power trap' early on.
QuoteAnd believe the word you were trying to use is "funneling the water"
Tks; that was the phrase I was searching for.
QuoteIt would also mean some form of terraforming which implies much more balance issues.
Hence my suggestion(s) above to avoid this..
I find it odd how the temperature can go all the way to 47 °C on a place so close to the ice sheets.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aj5haUV-egFFkT7DOqnZhX4urDXP
Screenshots show just 43 but i saw a 47 °C later.
I played unstable build for 10 days, and I think It's very improved and nice.
Early-game raid is noticeably easier, and late-game raid is more harder. I like this change.
And thanks for nerfing deep drill. it was so OP, honestly.
Also, I really liked new caravan UI and mechanics like foraging while traveling.
Suggestion:
I think masterwork/legendary firearms deserve increased damage output or/and less cool-down time, because they are now more special and harder to get.
On the crafting situation:
The problem in regards to crafting/smithing/tailoring atm is that pawns have a terrible tendency to begin work, stop halfway, go to sleep/eat/otherjob, return to their benches only to work on a new thing entirely. This results in half finished projects lying around the workshop and productivity being a complete problem.
If I were to hazard a guess of why this is, is that pawn AI prioritises doing the next job instead of completing the current one. I told my best crafting to make two power helmets, and rather than finishing one, she started on both and alternates between the two. Sometimes she goes on the other side of the colony to craft a bunch of flak pants! Didn't help she was a good doctor and grower too.
This is a bigger problem as the number of crafters increase, and you want your best ones to make the power armor while the lower levelled ones makes bionics, components, and other stuff that doesn't have quality. There is no elegant way to do this, even assigning your preferred crafter to the preferred projects does little to mitigate this issue.
Then apply this to ALL benches, with the only exception being stone bricks because stone bricks does not become a "unfinished X", and the confusement of what is smithing and what is crafting and what the drugs lab is and you get the player to micromanage the hell out of their workshop.
My suggestions on how to fix:
1. Make each bench be VERY clear on what kind of job they are (crafting, smithing, etc)
2. The ability to better assign who does the quality crafting. Sometimes I want my best crafter to pump out the power armor while other times I don't mind if the third best start doing the clothes. The crafting slider allow this to a degree, but it still an inelegant situation.
3. Improve pawn AI so they priotise finishing their previous job.
4. Some products have a minimal crafting requirement (components need 8), so there's no real need to have the slider go to 0 for it.
5. The whole drug labs thing needs a serious rethinking. It's very easy to have a pawn that's a great crafter or a great researcher but unable to do either because they lack the minimum requirement to craft medicine.
6. Smelting and stonemaking should give SOME levelling, no matter how small. It is quite the chore popping out 50 bows just so my researcher has the minimum crafting to make medicine.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 27, 2018, 04:49:05 PM
Also be careful - armor rework has non-trivial implications for the utility of deadfall traps. That might not be something on which you can rely to carry vs these numbers. Micromanagement adjustments to the AI changes will be consistently the most robust/rapidly adaptive :).
Out of curiosity, I tried a mountain town again with the usual single deadfall spam entrance, and this has been my observation as well. Worse, sappers are now grenading traps, which I don't remember them doing. Deadfalls do work as a nice stopgap to get to turrets, though, and as an impromptu defense for stuff like psychic ships. Although now that you can move mini turrets maybe it's better to just build powerlines everywhere lol. Autocannons are seamingly like the best long term defense now.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 27, 2018, 09:23:22 PM
On the crafting situation:
The problem in regards to crafting/smithing/tailoring atm is that pawns have a terrible tendency to begin work, stop halfway, go to sleep/eat/otherjob, return to their benches only to work on a new thing entirely.
That's... very strange and really caught my eye because I've never had that be an issue with an individual crafter unless I've changed the priorities while there's an unfinished piece.. Even then pawns handle the situation just fine - Finishing incomplete work first assuming that there is any for the currently highest priority bill.
Quote
This is a bigger problem as the number of crafters increase, and you want your best ones to make the power armor while the lower levelled ones makes bionics, components, and other stuff that doesn't have quality. There is no elegant way to do this, even assigning your preferred crafter to the preferred projects does little to mitigate this issue.
Erm.. You can do this quite easily for each individual bill. Under Details you can select which pawns do which jobs and if there is no designated crafter you can set a minimum and maximum skill.
If you don't want your competent crafters to make components then set the maximum skill for that bill below that of your most competent crafter.
If pawn (A) is assigned to do a bill then under no circumstances will pawn (B) or any other pawns do that. It's not a preference system at all.
Quote
1. Make each bench be VERY clear on what kind of job they are (crafting, smithing, etc)
You can quite easily see which jobs correspond to which work type by going to the Work screen and mousing over the tooltip for each one. For example Crafting covers "Work at Refinery, Synthesize Drugs, Make stone blocks, Smelt items".
Quote
2. The ability to better assign who does the quality crafting. Sometimes I want my best crafter to pump out the power armor while other times I don't mind if the third best start doing the clothes. The crafting slider allow this to a degree, but it still an inelegant situation.
As mentioned above there are two systems that can be used to determine who does what job.(3 if you count work priorities)
If no specific individual crafter is assigned to a bill then the slider does what you're requesting.
Additionally you can just assign an individual to a bill and they will be the only person who can do that task.
Quote
5. The whole drug labs thing needs a serious rethinking. It's very easy to have a pawn that's a great crafter or a great researcher but unable to do either because they lack the minimum requirement to craft medicine.
6. Smelting and stonemaking should give SOME levelling, no matter how small. It is quite the chore popping out 50 bows just so my researcher has the minimum crafting to make medicine.
I mostly disagree but I can offer you some useful advice : Given that there's no speed or quality increase for creating drugs or medicine literally anyone with the requisite 4 in crafting and research can do those tasks equally as efficiently as someone with 20 research and crafting.
Literally any random chump with 4/4 is fine for the task.
One important thing which you may have overlooked is that if pawn (A) starts say.. a Jacket, it's
theirs. Nobody else will work on that Jacket. When pawn (B) comes along and looks at a bill with 2 jackets on it he will take pawn (A)'s jacket, put it on the floor, and start on
his jacket. Unfinished jackets don't count towards the the bill's completion so if pawn (C) now comes along and starts a jacket and finishes it then pawn (A) finishes their jacket, pawn (B) will have an unfinished jacket that he will never work on because there's no more demand for jackets.
As mentioned earlier you can circumnavigate this by setting specific crafters to each bill. This will completely prevent the aforementioned problem because only the selected pawn will ever make jackets.
Quest spawning rate :
Quests are less spamming now, but appear still very often, not time to do a quest, an other spawn already, maybe reduce still a bit the spawning delay ?
Flak pants :
Hmmm souldn't be some Flak legs protection ? like some legs armor over the pants as the flak vest : https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1YbG2OVXXXXa0XXXXq6xXFXXXT/Police-Anti-Riot-Suit-Full-Body-Armor.jpg
mid game, pants become useless, makes it sad.
New build. Raw changelog:
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Remove unnecessary meta file.
Reversed def directionality of comms console to make sense and match B18 again.
Reversed def directionality of dresser.
Fix: Ship engine graphic reversed east/west.
Fix: Comms console has chair graphic on interaction spot but doesn't use it.
Plate armor research cost 1800 -> 1400. Plate armor armor rating reduced ~3%.
Relations shifts over time are a bit slower (0.25/day -> 0.20/day)
Exclude Photoshop .psd files from VSCode.
Armor rebalance: Double armor of devilstrand, hyperweave, thrumbofur. Increase other leathers' armor ratings. Reduce flak pants/jacket to 40/10/10. Thrumbo now has natural armor, but reduced health (thus fewer permanent injuries over long-term use).
Changed Thing.SpecialDisplayStats from a property to a method.
Costed up autocannon turret and made it no longer stuffed.
Royal bed gold cost 10 -> 50
Fix: Some armor can be made on the wrong table.
Reset the minimum ticks until mental break upon mental state recovery. MinTicksBelowToBreak 1500 -> 3000.
Improve transport pod contents output to show stack counts and combine same-def items.
Display manhunter chance even if it's zero.
Less heart attacks for young people.
Adjusted pyro and gourmand special mental break rates. No longer related to mood.
Add special requested name to get around tech problem on website.
Settlement -> SettlementBase, FactionBase -> Settlement
Escape ship map is now considered a PlayerHome.
Fix: Ship quest's computer core is disconnected from the rest of the ship.
Fix 3459: Randomly-generated player faction name is invalid
Fix 3466: Obedience-training an animal doesn't auto-assign master
Fix 3467: Pawn faces the opposite direction when burying a corpse
Fix 3470: ToWild bullets can damage conduits that are underneath walls
Fix 3461: Escape pod notification befriending text is still present if there's a pirate inside
Fix 3468: Back compatibility-related errors with new joy boredom state.
Fix 3464: Exception filling window for Verse.Dialog_InfoCard: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an
(Previously: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg413765#msg413765)
Things are looking up for the Muffalo Mob. Two caravans* sold some junk for a thousand vegetables and other goodies**. I've got about 400 total nutrition saved up for the long winter, and there's still about 2k meat worth of wildlife walking around. The Mob has expanded slightly to 29 animals, and we are catching up on training.
*The caravan experience seemed fine to me, but the 2% trade price bonus was insulting. I would actually rather not have it. The opportunity to sell whatever I want plus the extra chance at rare goods could be motivation enough. For a price bonus, I'd rather see some kind of delivery premium based on weight.
**A telescope! I always liked buying them for aesthetic reasons, but I didn't think they were any good. Now I see that a new recreation type translates directly into extra colonist time. Nifty!
deepdrill also does not boost comfort. You should change the chair icon like comms console.
Can not desktop icon created with steam icon creation run in 64 bit?
You can get 64-bit from the game folder, but many people just think they will run and complain.
Is there a way to verify that the game is 64-bit after running?
Does running in 64-bit really work to reduce game delays?
@Boboid
The assigning of crafting to certain colonists still doesn't work. They still leave unfinished items around and considering there'a a dozen bills lying around in total, Bob in Smithing will work on power armor in one lab and go off to make grenades in the workshop.
That's the thing, even if you assign a Colonist to do one thing, it does override their smith/craft/tailor bill. Sometimes I forget I didnt set the grenade crafter to one person and I'm running a raid and wondering why a job isn't finished. What if one pawn levels up enough they ignore the level limit you place on the grenades? It's micromanagy as all hell and watching Let's Players do it is also a hassle because talking and gaming is very hard.
Setting one priority over others work too, but then you need to keep track of who you want to do what. What if I want Jack to craft components for a day? Oops, forgot to turn off the tailoring priority and now Dave with 3 crafting is wasting devilstrand making shoddy dusters because he
finished cooking and I forgot to turn it off.
I too know that you can hover the priority but it'd be nice if there's a big THIS USES SMITHING sentence atop panel for benches. While it IS doable, it is far too micromanaget to my liking. Two crafters are fine, but I have five on hand and they do other jobs too like cooking, growing, etc. It's a lot to keep track of, and while I know this is a colony management game, there are certain QoL features I'd like to see implemented.
Quote from: Greep on June 27, 2018, 10:43:10 PM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 27, 2018, 04:49:05 PM
Also be careful - armor rework has non-trivial implications for the utility of deadfall traps. That might not be something on which you can rely to carry vs these numbers. Micromanagement adjustments to the AI changes will be consistently the most robust/rapidly adaptive :).
Out of curiosity, I tried a mountain town again with the usual single deadfall spam entrance, and this has been my observation as well. Worse, sappers are now grenading traps, which I don't remember them doing. Deadfalls do work as a nice stopgap to get to turrets, though, and as an impromptu defense for stuff like psychic ships. Although now that you can move mini turrets maybe it's better to just build powerlines everywhere lol. Autocannons are seamingly like the best long term defense now.
Finally got around to more current build (well, was until 2 hours ago anyway). The new armor pen is interesting, though unfortunately nearly all of my fighting this session was mechanoids or offensive raid to pick up an incapped refugee.
I got a TON of incapped refugee quests this go, ~5-6 inside a year.
Cas being her usual self:
Fights to the death with sappers are no joke.
https://i.imgur.com/OQaDUTK.jpg
And this is why I like Cas over Randy, much more relentless. Three days later I get a siege! Much cleaner though.
https://i.imgur.com/sc0pNNQ.jpg
Note this is still extreme from tribal + NB, and bad as the sapper situation was, none of the pawns were damaged in either of these.
Mechs are still handled same way now as in B18 - out range or out maneuver their slow warm-up guns. Bagged a couple centipedes with 2 revolvers and an AR post armor-update. They still sponge. I was worried it would be worse with the armor update but it feels pretty similar to usual. Maybe fighting them with snipers is a bit less painful now? Doable regardless.
So, I've had one of the new multi-attacks. Looks like it was 7-raider and 3-sapper. I'm not sure the fleeing mechanic is working correctly in the double attacks, but I might have missed something. I had to kill all 7 of the 7-raider group. The 3-sapper group had a "take stuff and leave" when one died but kept attacking anyways until all of them died, at which point it said they would flee.
Some raids literally never flee now, not sure that's intended. The tribal sapper raiders in my screen shot above fought to the last man.
Not a bad variant sometimes though.
I just finished my first play-through of 1.0
Started with original 1.0 build and finished on build 1946
Storyteller: Cassandra classic
Difficulty: Medium
Map: Large hills with year-round summer.
Total play time: 49 hours 27 min
Final population: 17 colonists
Colonists killed: 6
Left on spaceship on day 447
Final colony wealth: 445,698
My thoughts on a few things:
Difficulty:
- I actually found the difficulty to be much harder than I anticipated. I usually play on Randy extreme and my plan was to do a quick play-through on Cassandra medium just to get a feel for the 1.0 build. Instead, my colony teetered on the brink of total failure for the first couple of years and I never really felt secure at any time during the 49 and 1/2 hours it took to launch Kjelt into space. This was my first vanilla play-through in ages so I'm sure that's part of it but I also feel that the overall difficulty was more intense. Some of the things I was dealing with early on have been revised in more recent builds such as nerfing the centipedes (thanks for that) and no longer downing food poisoning victims. I read the post about how overall difficulty was lower but that cheese tactics would be less effective. I'd like to think I don't use those kinds of strategies and I still feel the difficulty was harder.
Deep drilling:
-The nerfing of the deep drills was the biggest change to the feel of the game IMO. The lower yield coupled with the "too deep" infestations routinely destroying all my drills and the need for turret barrel change-outs made getting enough steel the definite rate limiting step of progressing in the game. I wouldn't say that made the gameplay harder necessarily, but I would say that it made the game feel like more of a grind. I combated this by picking up any pawn with passion for mining (roughly 8-10 for the majority of the game) and a team of 15-20 dogs for hauling. Even then, I eventually found myself wishing the game would just be over soon. I'm not pretending to know what the ideal length of a play-through should be, but this one felt long to me.
Too deep infestation:
-That's what she said? But I digress... I didn't mind this addition for the most part but I did feel that it was too frequent. I didn't keep track of every event but I found myself getting around 3-4 of these new infestation types per year. I liked that they didn't seem to scale with wealth so they were manageable but the thing that made it more of a setback was loosing all my drills every time this happened. Which was not infrequently. I tried spreading my drills over several patches of steel which helped but meant more micro-management. Also, it would be awesome if the infestation critters showed up on the new wildlife tab. The little guys kept getting away from me and I could only find them by waiting for someone to get bit. I didn't care for the stone drilling once the main resource was depleted mainly because it made deconstructing the drills more of a pain. I had to unforbid, then power off to keep a miner from trying to use it. Then deconstruct. Any error in this sequence led to giant piles of unneeded stones 10 min later.
Autocannon turret:
-Love it. The buff given a couple builds ago was needed. I think the cost has also been increased since then which is appropriate. Having a 2nd turret type with a min range made defense planning more strategic. I like the barrel change requirements. One thing I noticed is that my colonists wouldn't do the barrel changes as early as I would have liked them to and this led to guns going down during raids. Would be nice to be able to control this somehow without micro-managing. Otherwise, I hope they stay as-is-ish.
Caravans:
- I think the value of the caravan request quests has bounced around in a few different builds and was most recently nerfed (could be wrong there). In any case, even at the higher values I still didn't take any of these offers. The risk of leaving my colony less well defended and possibly loosing valuable colonists early-mid game made the risk too great. Later in the game, nothing was really tempting enough to get me to take even a small risk. For me, the issue is that a lot the things that came up were not particularly useful (I'm thinking of a silver spear, luciferium, masterwork parka, etc) and the value wasn't high enough to justify going to get them for the purposes of selling them given the 50% loss when selling. For me, they would need to be much higher to be tempting. Overall, I thought the changes to caravaning were great. Especially the "form caravan" screen.
Escaping on the ship
-I definitely like the idea of one last major hurdle to survive a million raids while waiting for the ship to start and I think it adds to the feeling of completion once it's over. That said, I got 19 raids over those 15 days. I did survive, but barely. For medium difficulty I thought this might have been a little excessive. But I guess that's the point. And I did learn a thing or two to try next time. Overall, I liked it.
Other random things:
-Having colonists rebuild before repairing was a solid add. Having them re-arm deadfalls before other hauling tasks would be equally awesome. Especially when getting raids every 5 min while starting the ship.
-Having the poison ship radius of 50 tiles made it pretty easy to ignore completely. I had one land earlyish on and it sat there for 400 days until I left on the spaceship. Legend has it, the poison ship is still there to this day.
- I had approx 15-20 Labradors and thought training decay was easily manageable with 1 trainer.
- I liked the friendlies aspect of the game. Makes diplomacy more important and they actually made a difference in several raids. Great changes to diplomacy in general. Felt balanced.
- For some reason I only had 1 escape pod in 7.5 in-game years. Not sure if this was some bad RNG luck or what but usually I get a lot more. I also usually play on Randy so that might have something to do with it.
- I got a ton of "right on top of you" mechanoid raids. Like a lot. In general, I like these raid types as it forces me to come up with new strategies for how to deal with combat inside of my base without blowing everything up. But they seemed out of hand. I think at one point I got 5 or 6 in a row which got old after a while. So many dead dogs.
- Much better control of animals during battles. Feels good.
- Did we nerf high-explosive mortars? I don't remember seeing that but they seemed less effective. At one point I shot literally 100 of them in 16 shell volleys into 2 simultaneous raids and they basically had no impact on the battle.
-Charge lance is awesome. Build time and materials seem balanced to me. As do the new armor types.
-I liked the deflection chance for armor rather than the previous method. It's intuitive and easier to factor into an overall defense strategy, IMO.
-Advanced component and build level requirements seem fair enough. Glad to see the advanced component requirement for the multi-analyzer was removed though. I feel like there are enough gates early on without having to wait 2 years for a trader to come along.
-As others have mentioned, adding chair to deep-drill doesn't improve comfort level.
Overall, I thought my first go at 1.0 was great! In the end, this game is so flexible that there's no way I can imagine not being able to play it in a way I find entertaining. Thanks, Tynan!
awful-normal, your writeup is incredibly useful, thank you for taking the time!
Lot of first-post heroes in this thread.
I guess it's inherent to what we're doing here, but I'm really hoping to see more of this kind of full-game writeup, especially starting with newer builds. Since balance has changed so much, it's hard to know exactly how to place the feedback that's mixed across several builds.
My main concern about what awful-normal said what the sense of deep drilling being grindey. How can we alleviate it? I'm open to ideas here. My first thought is to make more infestations and balance that with faster drilling, but that seems kind of punishing. Or make the drills tankier so the bugs can't destroy them easily. Hmm.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 28, 2018, 02:11:28 AM
@Boboid
The assigning of crafting to certain colonists still doesn't work. They still leave unfinished items around and considering there'a a dozen bills lying around in total
...
..
Would you mind sending me a few screenshots of your base/workshops, the bills you have listed, and your work/priorities screen in a private message? Or even better a copy of your save game so I can see for myself the issues you're having?
I strongly suspect that there is an elegant solution using the existing systems that will minimize micromanagement considerably. If everything is set up correctly it should be a totally painless experience.
Quote
sense of deep drilling being grindey. How can we alleviate it?
How is the deep drill infestation event handled? Is it treated like a standard threat event like a raid? or is it a % chance to trigger per X amount of time spent drilling or per extraction?
If either of the latter then more drills means more infestations, increasing the radius/cost and probably durability of drills seems fine.
If it's treated like a standard event then.. I guess buff the drill health or have the insects prioritize people over structures. A brief pause between appearing and immediately chewing on the drills would go a long way.
Personally I have a tendency when deep drill infestations appear to just huddle around them waiting for the bugs to appear and instantly gib them with gunfire which seldom destroys the drill.
Personally I would limit infestations to only non-steel drilling, and make them more powerful. Sort of a mines of moria/ dwarf fortress "you got too greedy mate" thing.
Just want to pipe in: I also found mortars pretty lackluster, although I'm not sure if anything actually changed, they were more of a late game thing to deal with hordes.
Did anyone notice any immunity problems? I got rescue quest, Heal him he got an infection. He is in bed under roof and treated by L5 doctor with herbal medicine. Infection and immunity started at 0-0%. Now it is in 70th% and I behind 6%. I did not miss a single treatment, so basically I had no chance.
That was not my experience from past. Anyone else noticed infection changes?
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 27, 2018, 03:47:54 PM
From what I've experienced in my run which generally has a very dirty kitchen, there has been absolutely no food poisoning as of late despite the poor hygiene. Perhaps food poisoning chance from poor/good room cleanliness should be an offset rather than a factor, but then there will be oddities such as level 20 cooks having the same poison chances as level 10 cooks in the same room.
Any cook would struggle with food poisoning in a dirty kitchen. In my mind cooking level is about how they handle the ingredients, so an offset for never cleaning the kitchen would fit well.
Personally, I've never had a reason to exclude my butcher table(I'd also prefer to see the debuff off the table and have butchering make a larger mess to be cleaned to balance it) once I get the kitchen set up because after about 6-7 cooking it seems to become almost negligible(even outdoors). I'll have to play around with it when I get a chance.
Hey thanks Tynan. I grew up on age of empires and diablo II and I would say this is my favorite game of all time. Kudos!
As far as the deep drills go, I would agree that they were probably OP before. IMO the simplest remedy would be to have pawn mining speed and/or yield scale more aggressively with mining level. This would keep the early balance similar to the current level which I thought was challenging but fun and eliminate the need for a large number of skilled miners mid-late game. Other things I thought might help with the "grindey" aspect would be to just make the yield a little higher. Another option might be to have more deep steel near the center of the map where people are most likely to build bases. This would at least alleviate the hauling aspect and would bring the infestations in closer to established defenses.
I liked the addition of the "too deep" infestations. RNG is a factor here so it's hard to say exactly how frequently they are occurring but for me, having them be less frequent and more dangerous would have helped make them a little less annoying.
I finished the naked Cassandra extreme yesterday. (1.0.1946)
The game took about 33 hours.
So I think I can talk about overall play and finishing.
Personally Traps and Turrets have limited play that they do not use because they are not fun.
For reference, I have 2364 hours of playtime as a hardcore gamer + twitch streamer who likes RIMWORLD. I hope you will see this article from that perspective.
[ life ]
-The watermill was very good in the past but I think it fed nerf too much. Given that it costs more to protect the watermill, has limited geographical conditions, and is relatively expensive, it will not pay for a small number of watermills. I think we need to reduce the watermill penalty range or increase the amount of production electricity.
-The biomechanical system was fun to restore the fingers. Can you make the pelvis possible?
-The message tab was very nice. It is good to have a record, but it was regrettable because the number of the contents to be recorded was limited. I would like to greatly ease or eliminate the numerical limitations.
[ World Map ]
-I do not know where the sleeping bag use. The meaning of existence is blurred. If you take a sleeping bag, you might want to change the world map's travel time from fixed to fixed at 6 o'clock.
-It is difficult to deal with infections and diseases while traveling the world map. If you have not taken phenozaycillin, the onset of the plague on the world map will immediately be the death sentence. I wish there was a weakened version of penozycine. Even the plague ...
-The frequency of events was high at the beginning, but it fell off to the level of B18 in the late game. The first time was a lot of fun, but I do not know if this is the original or if I have adjusted the frequency with the patch.
-I am very pleased that the range of events has been reduced and the travel time of the World Map has been reduced. I wonder if the scope of events can be reduced more.
[ battle ]
-Difficulty has increased more than twice as much as the B18. Especially, Centipede of Mechanoide is more than twice as effective as bodily sensation. Centipede's vitality is below 10% and it stays in a zombie state which does not die.
-The weapon's stopping power concept was quite interesting. I tried to combine various weapons and it was very useful. Conversely, an assault rifle and charged lifle felt weak. The overall enemy armor has risen, but on the contrary, the firepower of these two flagship rifles has remained intact or weakened. It was even worse because there was no stopping power.
-The inability to move across pawns in combat invites the extreme stress. There are too many cases where a battalion is canceled due to a sudden battle. That is, there are too many cases in which my command is not executed. Another pawn is commanded to go back and then stops. Move away from the pawn in battle to the enemy as long as you can not get lost. I am too stressed on this and would like to return it to B18 again. I was too irritated to control more than a certain number of pawns.
-The late raid cycle is very strange. Four consecutive mechanoids dropped into the base and the interval was 2-3 days apart. Drop attacks require more recovery time than other attacks. The continuous drop attack was too bad.Immediately after the corpse was processed, the raid came in.
[ Final Battle ]
-Put power on the ship. I started attacking once a day and went beyond the middle of the timer, and I was attacked twice a day. I could not handle the corpse, and I did not even have time to eat. I fed the food alternately and continued the battle, and the mood fell to the bottom as a death penalty for family relations. I used various drugs in order not to go crazy.
The enemy's weapon continues to accumulate and the value of the property rises vertically.
It was a problem from the moment the mechanoid's base dropped and the inside of the base got smashed and lost all the means of restoring the mood. No matter how well prepared, you can not prevent the inside of the base from being destroyed. And there is no time to recover.
On the last three days, I raised my pawns to go-juice. The last day lost two pawns in a frenzy. Finally, six out of 12 people were able to escape.
Well, if the developer intended it ... it was fun but it was hard and it was a tiring finish because I sacrificed half of my friends.
[ For developers ]
-You will be able to see the raid cycle through the save file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nunio0eb4zert0i/bearhunters.rws?dl=0
-It is the final 4 hours game video. Through this, you can experience the enemy's raid cycle or the difficulty of the last battl.
https://youtu.be/25SrC_5oopQ
-If you want to check the entire game flow, check the video playlist.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOqh8HZjKd1OB69fIkb67dZZIEQBQuFot
I'm year five, have the ship research complete. I think i'm getting into the steel grind part of the game:
- the ship for 20 colonists is worth a total 10k of steel if you factor in components from scratch
- a deep drill at best gives back around 200 steel with the drill
- a real good source of steel are quest (~500 steel per camp)
- i consider building a secundary mining colony for speeding up the process
Well, infestations may destroy the drill -> more grind. That's also without remote drills which are destroyed by raiders. I've had three deep infestations with two drills so far. It seemed somewhat balanced.
You could make deep drills moveable with a longer install/ uninstal time (at least longer than the time required for ants to spawn after the warning), and as you said, increase drill speed. Moving the drill will remove the 'drill tax' and also significantly increase drilling efficiency since you'll be able to drill all the tiles of the desposit when a drill for weird placed 3-4 tiles wasn't worth it.
Side note on the autocannon: it's useful with it's high armor penetration against mechs, but you've to build it in the open, and i've lost 3 plasteel autocannons (1 destroyed three times in a row). Not much i could do against the 20 scythers scattered around, they just went for it, not much i could do either against psychic ship + drop pod mechs, they were simply too many, i could have saved one against a single ship (~4000 pts) but it was because it was a tanky autocannon, a 400 HP steel autocannon would be wrecked too.
With the new change with even higher steel cost and lower hit points, if i rebuild it it will be well protected in a bunker, which means a narrower field of view and a necessity to bait mechanoids to it.
That said i really enjoyed the change in the armor system and ranged wepaons. Though it feels like you're throwing rocks at centipedes when you use assault rifles or miniguns, it feels more realistic. And melee combat with good armor is a legit strategy. I usually had 1:1 good melee / good range pawns and ended up giving miniguns to melee guys. Now there is a first line of melee pawns which draws the firepower and deals with the first line of scythers/ lancers and pirates in melee fight.
Regarding the quests: now that we've bionic parts, they really feel easy mid -end game, there should be some sort of progression in rewards and difficulty. easier early on, harder later.
Regardins caravaning:
-bedrolls have little to no place when you can build wooden beds, and no debuff when moving without beds
-i'd like to see multiple pawns being able to load a single transporter
-i've seen 2 out of 3 pawns enter pods well before the loading process was complete, they should enter last, when everything is loaded (they don't help, and they starve inside the pod meanwhile)
-when sending gifts with pods to faction bases, there should be something indicating how much goodwill you'll gain before actually sending the pod
Regarding that video above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25SrC_5oopQ&feature=youtu.be
This seems like some pretty broken A.I. at 22:00-24:00, just completely abandoning their attacks after shutting doors like that. Possibly not something than can be fixed for 1.0, but this looks like it needs improvement.
I also quite like the added threat part to deep drilling via insect spawns. Though i do feel the grindy part @awful-normal mentioned. For me the grindy part is all about constant steel shortage (armor replacement, barrel replacement for turrets etc.) forcing me to try countering that with deep drills, which end up mauled by insects, requiring more steel and components to replace them - its a vicious circle which massively adds to grindy part.
I suggest several things:
1) Making deep drills much more resistant to attacks giving ample time to gather suppression team to deal with insects without having to rebuild several drills all the time.
2) Slightly increasing the yield of deep drills, while making them even more dependant on mining skills. (I liked that idea "skill over quantity").
3) Adding alternative ways of getting steel (not via trade, its way to RNGesus dependant) - like adding a research project to upgrade long range mineral scanners, allowing it to search for specific resources of your choice (not only jade, gold, silver, but also uranium, steel and plasteel). Making those deposits significantly more rich, so that player has more reason to send out mining teams.
4) Make long-range mineral scanners find something much faster, like once every 15-20 days, not 30.
Honestly i was always surprised why those scanners couldn't find steel. It totally should be able to generate both steel and plasteel deposits on the world map.
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on June 28, 2018, 03:50:57 AM
a deep drill at best gives back around 200 steel with the drill
What? Each successful lump from a deep drill yields 38 steel with a 100% yield miner ( 8 skill or higher). Each drill covers a 3x3 area which means even if each square could only be mined once it would yield (38x9)342 steel. You also get 75% of the materials used to construct a deep drill back when you deconstruct it bringing the total up to 417 steel and 2 components(441 steel including the components)
If each square was only mined once you would still be gaining 402 steel per drill.
And.. each square covered by a deep drill can be mined multiple times though I'll admit to not knowing the exact number. Each square starts green and progresses through shades of yellow/red until it's exhausted and the overlay disappears.
Quote from: Tynan on June 28, 2018, 02:53:37 AM
My main concern about what awful-normal said what the sense of deep drilling being grindey. How can we alleviate it? I'm open to ideas here. My first thought is to make more infestations and balance that with faster drilling, but that seems kind of punishing. Or make the drills tankier so the bugs can't destroy them easily. Hmm.
What about making it a little more dynamic?
Make drilling way faster so you can stay at x1 speed.
After every lump infestation spawns, at the beggining numbers are small but they rise with time.
Rewards rise aswell with danger level.
Also bigger drilling area would be great 9x9 instead of 3x3 for example
An infestation after each and every lump? Really? Dunno about you, but i kind of want to mine steel without turning my colony into a ceasless warzone.
At the start it would be like 1-3 bugs, you could stop after every lump so you get low bugs and probably still more resources than now
Deep drill worms do not come out more than expected, it takes time to get out, and because it is melee above all, it was not difficult if you had enough firepower. Research of deep drills is very late game, so you can get enough firepower.
Quote from: Boboid on June 28, 2018, 04:06:51 AM
each square covered by a deep drill can be mined multiple times though I'll admit to not knowing the exact number.
ok, i didn't pay attention to that, so definitely the limiting factor is drilling speed. though a larger drill/ moveable drill wouldn't hurt.
Quote from: Tynan on June 28, 2018, 02:53:37 AM
My main concern about what awful-normal said what the sense of deep drilling being grindey. How can we alleviate it? I'm open to ideas here. My first thought is to make more infestations and balance that with faster drilling, but that seems kind of punishing. Or make the drills tankier so the bugs can't destroy them easily. Hmm.
Maybe there could be a warmup time for the drill before it hits optimum efficiency? Or maybe it heats up over time and has to cool off after use instead of drilling 24/7? Maybe you can mount spinning blades of death on the drill so that it isn't just a helpless machine any more? :)
Or, perhaps the drill bit wears down, and you have to replace it much like the turret barrels. Instead of constantly replacing the entire thing.
Perhaps make it tanky as well, with the drill bit replacements serving as an upkeep cost. You can also make it a mobile drill, on some kind of trailer maybe, to stop from having to constantly break it down and rebuild elsewhere.
I just had a hilarious internal image of a drill on wheels being pulled by beasts of Burden haha.
Quote from: Tynan on June 28, 2018, 02:53:37 AMMy main concern about what awful-normal said what the sense of deep drilling being grindey. How can we alleviate it? I'm open to ideas here. My first thought is to make more infestations and balance that with faster drilling, but that seems kind of punishing. Or make the drills tankier so the bugs can't destroy them easily. Hmm.
I would love if the infestation wouldn't damage the drills, they came from there, it's their way to escape from the caves below so they shouldn't see it as something to be destroyed but an open path to call more infestations.
So the player has to kill the infestation and do some action to stop the drill from bringing more of them. If left unattended the infestation would get bigger over time.
The initial infestation should be small and easy to take care of. Then you put a counter on that drill and subsequent infestations from there will get bigger and bigger.
There should be an action called 'Drop bomb on the hole' or 'Set poisonous gas on the hole' so the drill will stop bringing infestation and you can resume drilling.
With this drilling becomes more of a story to be told than a nuisance to be dealt fast and forgotten. It will also make players abandon drills that got too many infestations if they were unlucky to get them on that drill.
And then you can increase the rate of the initial infestation but decrease the rate of subsequent infestations that are harder.
EDIT: Also probably increase the reach a drill has, so the player has to deal with less drills on the map, less micro management.
Quote from: Tynan on June 26, 2018, 05:39:38 AM
Surprised: No discussion yet about how the armor system has been completely redone with armor penetration, damage diminshment (from gunshot to bruise), etc.
Anyway, quick update going up. Changelog:
-----
Building watermills too close together now makes them less effective (water turbulence).
Adjust naked brutality description.
Reduced "soaking wet" duration and made it happen in rain as well as water.
Fix: Minor issues with time speed slowing in combat.
Autocannon turret is now significantly more powerful and somewhat more expensive.
Fix: Pawns who are incapable of hauling can still do opportunistic hauling jobs.
Multi-analyzer no longer requires advanced components. Plasteel is enough.
Buffed wind turbine power output 15%.
Insect meat is now priced lower than other meat.
Fix: Some text still uses the term "joy" instead of "recreation".
Greetings uncle Tynan and good job!! I love Rimworld
Quote from: East on June 28, 2018, 03:37:07 AM
-It is the final 4 hours game video. Through this, you can experience the enemy's raid cycle or the difficulty of the last battl.
https://youtu.be/25SrC_5oopQ
Honestly I find this ending epic. Great post and thanks for the video. I'm sad I cannot understand Korean.
Now that i watched that epic video, I kind of think armor blocking a hit could use a couple more variations of clinking sounds. The one it has now feels nice, but a bit of variety won't hurt.
I have no idea how to force my pawns to put bound animal to grave. Hauling is grayed, I can't assign animal to grave too. They somehow did this, but I can't force them to.
How does bed rest work now? I see my pawn doesn't care about his infection 82% (imm 60) and keeps feeding prisoners, even though resting is higher priority.
I've been playing Tribal start, Cassie Extreme for a few days. Going good. Love the changes. I have discovered though that when I click history, then statistics, that the game shows Im playing Hard difficulty.
Clips for evidence of the event:
Discovery of hard mode:https://clips.twitch.tv/DelightfulRelentlessPoultryFunRun (https://clips.twitch.tv/DelightfulRelentlessPoultryFunRun)
Selection of difficulty at the beginning:https://clips.twitch.tv/InspiringFragileCarabeefChocolateRain (https://clips.twitch.tv/InspiringFragileCarabeefChocolateRain)
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 06:37:47 AM
Now that i watched that epic video, I kind of think armor blocking a hit could use a couple more variations of clinking sounds. The one it has now feels nice, but a bit of variety won't hurt.
One could do what Blizzard does: Pitch the same sound randomly a bit higher/lower (adjustable range) whenever it's generated. This is how in Starcraft 2 the same sound can overlap a lot without sounding too repetitive or just louder.
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 28, 2018, 07:08:56 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 06:37:47 AM
Now that i watched that epic video, I kind of think armor blocking a hit could use a couple more variations of clinking sounds. The one it has now feels nice, but a bit of variety won't hurt.
One could do what Blizzard does: Pitch the same sound randomly a bit higher/lower (adjustable range) whenever it's generated. This is how in Starcraft 2 the same sound can overlap a lot without sounding too repetitive or just louder.
We do this :)
Quote from: Tynan on June 28, 2018, 07:11:02 AM
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 28, 2018, 07:08:56 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 06:37:47 AM
Now that i watched that epic video, I kind of think armor blocking a hit could use a couple more variations of clinking sounds. The one it has now feels nice, but a bit of variety won't hurt.
One could do what Blizzard does: Pitch the same sound randomly a bit higher/lower (adjustable range) whenever it's generated. This is how in Starcraft 2 the same sound can overlap a lot without sounding too repetitive or just louder.
We do this :)
Oh, I haven't checked before writing, my bad. I was actually going through the video to hear the sound and if that was the case, but I was unlucky and never got a fight scene, just paused scenes, so I just suggested it. And I'm not that far in my own 1.0 playthrough.
Well then, Madman666's point still stands, if it sounds repetitive despite pitch changes maybe some alternative sounds are needed.
Balance update. Recreation is getting a bit more love. Deep drilling rethink.
Raw changelog:
----
Fix: Deep drilling gold is insanely fast since portion size is determined by stack size. Fixed by defining deep portion size directly per-def (for steel it changed from 38 to 35).
Rebalanced to make late game production less grindy: -Allow reinstall of deep drills. -Deep drill health 140 -> 300. -Deep drill work per lump 16000 -> 13000. -Deep drill cost 200 steel + 3 components -> 300 steel + 4 components. -Deep drill work to make 5000 -> 10000. -Deep drill power consumption 250 -> 300. -Deep drill research cost 1500 -> 2400. -Deep drill infestations size increased (if player has the points for it) and more randomness to the raid size. -Deep drill infestations cooldown per drill group 8 days -> 7 days. -Long-range mineral scanner MTB 30 days -> 18 days.
Wording changes in a few places.
The player can now research and build flatscreen televisions.
Increased poison ship part radius maximum 50 tiles -> 100 tiles.
Moved pekoe production from crafting spot to campfire and stoves. Normalized the way campfire work speed works; it's automatically 50% of normal, which allowed removing the custom campfire-only recipes for simple meal, pemmican, burn drugs, and burn apparel.
Fix: Deep drill doesn't give comfort but still has a chair icon for the interaction spot.
Decrease quest start frequency a bit, normalize it between storytellers.
Deep drill changes - awesome! I don't see long range mineral scanner being capable of finding steel.. I think that could be a nice change though. I'd much more likely risk sending a caravan to get some steel, than gold or jade. :\
Also - flatscreen TV research being allowed is a cool change as well, thanks, Tynan!
I just checked devmode to test one thing, got a fire from a zzzt while raining and the fire wasnt being put out with the rain. Is this normal? I had god mode, unlimited power, and disabled the firsts things in the dev list.
About the insect mining, you might like this. Instead of randomly have insects from the starting of drilling, what you can do is make it that each deposit has a limited "surface" amount, marked in the current green color. But that runs out and when it runs out you can keep drilling but with chance of insects. The run out deposits should have a different color, maybe dark green or orange. Orange would be ideal for clarification but its hard to see.
Then every time you drill a tile of the deposit it goes dark green/orange, until them all are (no need to move the drill please). So you dont get caught off guard you should be able to toggle drilling in depleted deposits for a chance of insects. If you build them/install in a depleted deposit they start toggled on. If you build in a green one, they should be toggled off.
I also think that if you make deposits infinite you can cut them in half instead of having the map full of them.
BTW i dont understand the chair in the deep drill or the comms console or the stove... In these things you are supposed to be standing -.- Also dinning chair should be renamed to chair, since its not only for dinning.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 07:31:58 AM
Deep drill changes - awesome! I don't see long range mineral scanner being capable of finding steel.. I think that could be a nice change though. I'd much more likely risk sending a caravan to get some steel, than gold or jade. :\
Also - flatscreen TV research being allowed is a cool change as well, thanks, Tynan!
I feel you. Irl gold, jade, etc are worth more than steel, they are precious, but in rimworld you are thirsty for steel. It makes not much sense.
Quote from: Tynan on June 28, 2018, 07:26:40 AM
-Allow reinstall of deep drills.
That's what everyone wanted!
One of the most complaints I've heard from the community since I started Rim World.
Yeah and also I just like the concept of sending a group out with a purpose of establishing a temporary mining outpost, but honestly i don't feel like those measly gold\jade deposits are worth it. With gold being a currency item - you can only sell it... Same with jade more or less. While steel, plasteel and uranium can easily be most important resources throughout the game, much more valuable and consumed.
The fact that temporary maps don't spawn any resources is also sad imo. It was one of main advantages of traveling.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 28, 2018, 07:38:39 AM
I feel you. Irl gold, jade, etc are worth more than steel, they are precious, but in rimworld you are thirsty for steel. It makes not much sense.
IRL we have industrial power to produce as much steel as we need, while gold and jade are rare. In Rimworld steel is a rare fossil material with a lot of uses.
Got some interesting things on my game.
Got food poisoning, it started at initial then went to the next step, then I think I got another and it went back to initial.
So suddenly my pawn was felling a little better because she had gotten a second food poisoning while the other was at its worst.
Started a caravan and soon after my pawn got fibrous mechanites, travel time went from 3.5 to 1.7, pretty fun. But I guess that is expected.
My other caravan got attacked by a naked pawn with a club and she was full of bruises and cuts, all bandaged. Maybe it's expected but I never saw something like this before.
The last thing just happened, one of my pawn got a heart attack, I moved him to a bed and my doc was going there to try to save him but suddenly he got up and started walking, I checked and he didn't have a heart condition anymore, healed by itself? Maybe it's normal but also never have seen this before.
Quicky:
The new "Plate Armor" has no description in the bill info of the Fueled Smithy.
So after playing through the early game I have gathered some feedback:
Positive
- New graphics - the 3D effect from the shadows is great, makes items much more pleasant to look at and differentiate from the surroundings
- Wind turbine being bigger - always thought it was a bit strong on open maps and way overpowered on mountain maps. This makes it less viable on mountain maps, which nerfs them, I appreciate that
- Watermill - more unique energy production, yay. Also makes rivers more than a nuisance. Love it.
- Recreation being more of an actual task than just "have a table, a statue and horseshoes and forget about it"
- The "expectations" buff actually doing more than just influencing mood
- Many QoL changes - smoothing walls (always had the mod for it), medicine stacks being useable by multiple doctors (no mod fixed that, very annoying), allow-tool (also always had the mod), shrink zone (N) shortcut on zones themselves, campfire/torch not disappearing (also used a mod for this), opportunistic hauling (micro'd this for a long time, then used mod for it, much appreciated), grouping of items like the stone floors (saves space)
Negative
- Disliking the "..." a lot, would much rather have a fat + in the top right corner of the icon indicating that you can click it*
- I can't right-click buttons with a submenu anymore? Like the above mentioned build submenus, the "which plant to sow" submenu on growing zones etc., used to be left or right-click, now it only works with left anymore.
- Reordering the skills will need some getting used to. I believe there is a reason you changed it and it might turn out positive but for now it's of course unpleasant. I also liked that work priority aligned with skill order, it was symmetrical and made it easy to understand what skill belongs to which work type without even reading it.
- Things deteriorating while outside but roofed feels weird. I always liked that there was a clear use for making open, roofed structures with pillars. Now the stockpile will just be another room.
*(copied from youtube video)
(http://puu.sh/ANpQe/1af3a24d03.jpg)
I'll write more when I experience it, this has just been my first impression after a few hours of playing.
4 times in a row I sent my pawn to tame fox, which I'm keeping inside my house. 4 times he picked meat, forgot order and went hunting caribou.
Quote from: Lech on June 28, 2018, 08:55:10 AM
4 times in a row I sent my pawn to tame fox, which I'm keeping inside my house. 4 times he picked meat, forgot order and went hunting caribou.
something funny going on with hunting it seems, just had a character on the bring of breaking down, so i set him on 24/7 recreation, dude decided to go hunting turtle instead of meditating... Thanks NRA
Unrelated thing: day 22, got a 2.5d timeout caravan request to a mountain village 3.5d trip away. Might want to have a check of some sort before assigning caravan quest destination so early on
Quote from: dnmr on June 28, 2018, 09:02:44 AM
something funny going on with hunting it seems, just had a character on the bring of breaking down, so i set him on 24/7 recreation, dude decided to go hunting turtle instead of meditating... Thanks NRA
That works as intended. If you set a pawn to sleep or recreation, they will sleep or recreate until their bar is full, then go work. They wont stay in bed or recreate indefinitely. If you want them to not do any job just take the jobs out in the work tab.
I just built my first Comms Console, due to playing Lost Tribe and the new skin is funny... Shouldn't satellite reception disks be outside rather under roof?
Quote from: Tynan on June 28, 2018, 07:26:40 AM
-Allow reinstall of deep drills.
-Long-range mineral scanner MTB 30 days -> 18 days.
Increased poison ship part radius maximum 50 tiles -> 100 tiles.
I love how Tynan thinks about changes that I'd like to have but I didn't think about them. Reinstallable deep drills - I couldn't even dream about this but this feature sounds awesome. At least I don't have to consider deep-drilling research before scanner useless anymore. Now, I can blindly search for resources before scanner is invented.
About mineral scanner MTB... in B18, once I had it built, I used to have the world map filled with mineral lumps around my base. Now, it becomes more frequent... I'm scared. Of course, there've been changes regarding minerals, but for those who don't mine the lumps at all early game, they might end up spammed with the lumps later.
Shouldn't poison ships cover a certain percentage of the map? The impact it provides is less significant on larger maps. Once in B18, I had a poison ship which I neglected and I ended up with no grass, trees and crops as it was map-wide range. Animals were starving and after dealing with the ship, the grass was growing slowly from the borders of the map and never grew inside the walls (I had a grassland there for muffalos). But the colony could live with that.
Well solution to mineral deposits filling the map is rather simple - there should be a timer on those. Once time is up - opportunity expires (other factions get to deposits first). And i still insist those deposits should really allow for steel, plasteel and uranium too. Although adding it as a mod is rather simple, even through just xml editing, so its not critical.
I agree with this suggestion. Even in my heavily modded game I never really use the long range scanner because of the resources it finds (I have much more use for jade/gold than a vanilla game would have) - while I tend to have way too much steel in nearly all stages, I find myself short on plasteel in the midgame and uranium nearly all the time, so mods or no, these resources would be a much more interesting incentive to go out of your base and use caravans.
Storytime! (I know Tynan loves user stories)
When I played back in A16/17 and I was still pretty noobish and didn't use many mods, I avoided caravans like the plague. For me as a semi-new player the UI was unpleasant to use, hard to navigate and I had no idea what risk a caravan was (low, high?). The incentives were the real problem, there was never anything I said "damn, for that it's worth dealing with the UI and this mechanic". The meh resource lumps were absolutely a part of this reason, so I appreciate any effort to make caravans seem like a good idea.
I enjoy 1.0 so far, but man, tribal sapper raids are way too hard. I'm not sure if it is intended like that, but I just had a raid where at least 10 guys, all melee and even if I killed the sapper, one guy will take charge and take lead. I'm playing on Randy Extreme as a tribal too.
I had another run that also ended horribly, but that one was far more advanced in equipment, yet I lost to the same thing. Tribal sappers with all melee. Am I the only one getting destroyed by this?
All I'd like to say is that I am very appreciative of the fact that custom scenarios are so easy to create. As a long time Dwarf Fortress player, I enjoy making under-mountain bases and infestations were one of the first things I disabled, as I feel they're poorly implemented. The Better Infestations mod is more how I think they should work, but the inherit randomness of the events makes me disable them regardless. As for the deep drill infestations.. nope, still exceedingly annoying, disabled.
Regarding waterwheels, I think the changes are good since it was too easy to spam them like crazy (I've just been embarking on rivers) but the turbulence area should perhaps be reduced by 1.
Also, any thoughts on diagonal waterwheels or options for easier placement on diagonal rivers?
Love the option for reinstall of deep drills. Would be nice if some more things could also be reinstalled (read this as basically everything).
I think this is the first time I'm going to skip playing this game until a better build comes out.
Why in the world change the position of skills on the character screen, it was way better before, a lot more clearer. Instead of thinking whether something should cost 3 or 4 components, work on adding some real content that makes sense and adds some fun. No one cares if it costs 70 or 80 steel. But it does make a difference the way joy is handled now and how it was.
Probably the first build which is actually much worse than the previous one.
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 28, 2018, 10:03:46 AM
I agree with this suggestion. Even in my heavily modded game I never really use the long range scanner because of the resources it finds (I have much more use for jade/gold than a vanilla game would have) - while I tend to have way too much steel in nearly all stages, I find myself short on plasteel in the midgame and uranium nearly all the time, so mods or no, these resources would be a much more interesting incentive to go out of your base and use caravans.
Storytime! (I know Tynan loves user stories)
When I played back in A16/17 and I was still pretty noobish and didn't use many mods, I avoided caravans like the plague. For me as a semi-new player the UI was unpleasant to use, hard to navigate and I had no idea what risk a caravan was (low, high?). The incentives were the real problem, there was never anything I said "damn, for that it's worth dealing with the UI and this mechanic". The meh resource lumps were absolutely a part of this reason, so I appreciate any effort to make caravans seem like a good idea.
Uranium remains an enormous bottleneck as it's the least consistent resource to attain. If you're lucky, you can get a bunch in deep drills or a trader will sell uranium furniture. If you're not, it can gate your spaceship construction for years even if you're a tribe and have much slower research speed. I've always felt its ability to make a quad tech penalty irrelevant was a little off.
At least with plasteel and such you can get a lot from mechanoids, so as your colony scales up and you get huge numbers of mechs you'll have similarly huge plasteel reserves eventually.
QuoteI enjoy 1.0 so far, but man, tribal sapper raids are way too hard. I'm not sure if it is intended like that, but I just had a raid where at least 10 guys, all melee and even if I killed the sapper, one guy will take charge and take lead. I'm playing on Randy Extreme as a tribal too.
I had a similarly large (15+) one on Cas/extreme. For the most part, it's okay. I don't like how quickly they just pick a new sapper, given that a raider that can "mine" a wall actually breaches multiple layers faster than a pirate sapper raid where 5 of the raiders had grenades!
I wound up killing them in my base w/o taking pawn damage (screenshot on page 55 of this thread), and once replacing bedrooms with stone this will hardly be insurmountable, but a sapper getting shot multiple times before it even reaches the perimeter wall should probably react to this. I insanity lance'd one, it got replaced, and I put that one at half health while the AI just ignored the bullets and tunneled in.
I have a similar complaint about mechs from ships. I shoot the ship, aggro one mech, and then by using cover they all run away towards my base. Shouldn't they prioritize defending their ship over attacking a work bench while I'm actively shooting at and destroying their ship? They don't though, so it turns into heavy split screen micromanagement. A16 made them too easy to handle, but I'd like to see them not wander off and beat on random perimeter walls/constructs when player is attacking other mechs/ship itself.
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 28, 2018, 08:18:34 AM
I can't right-click buttons with a submenu anymore? Like the above mentioned build submenus, the "which plant to sow" submenu on growing zones etc., used to be left or right-click, now it only works with left anymore.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I actually thought it was misremembering how it used to work. I'd 100% support left and right-clicking both opening the submenu since it's not like there's any other interaction you can have with it.
Quote
Things deteriorating while outside but roofed feels weird. I always liked that there was a clear use for making open, roofed structures with pillars. Now the stockpile will just be another room.
Ever since my first colony, I've designated a little roofed spot on the outside of one of my buildings to be the woodpile. Nothing else goes there, just wood. Probably not that important in the grand scheme of things, but I do miss it.
It also reminds me of my first colony where I stored all my dry goods outdoors under a roof, including my first rice crop, until I realized wild animals were actually coming up and pilfering it. Then I started building proper warehouses, you can be sure.
Quote from: Ambaire on June 28, 2018, 10:28:17 AM
Also, any thoughts on diagonal waterwheels or options for easier placement on diagonal rivers?
I haven't looked in-depth at the generation code because... well, I'm not good at that much math... but maybe the easiest solution is to modify how rivers are laid down to limit how long it can run diagonally, and make sure there are at least some orthogonal sections. They might be a little outside your optimal base area, but that's true of geothermal power too.
newbie here, I've only played 1 colony on B18, and I thought I would give a rookie's view of 1.0 Crash-landed, temperate forest, Cassandra medium, all defaults. only on day four, so not much to report on that front. however I did an in-game test of something I observed in B18, and it is still in 1.0 I edited the scenario to start with a tame thumbro, bear, cougar and boomalope. I then had my pawn slaughter each pet. The 3 vicious predators died without so much as a whimper. The boomalope, of course, exploded. Now, i love the boomalope mechanics in the wild, but it seems to me that a tame one should not explode during a controlled slaughter. I see it as: either the Pawn should be sufficiently skilled to safely slaughter up close, or the pawn should be experienced enough to slaughter at a safe distance. More as time permits.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 28, 2018, 10:42:35 AM
Uranium remains an enormous bottleneck as it's the least consistent resource to attain. If you're lucky, you can get a bunch in deep drills or a trader will sell uranium furniture. If you're not, it can gate your spaceship construction for years even if you're a tribe and have much slower research speed. I've always felt its ability to make a quad tech penalty irrelevant was a little off.
At least with plasteel and such you can get a lot from mechanoids, so as your colony scales up and you get huge numbers of mechs you'll have similarly huge plasteel reserves eventually.
Totally agree, that's why I think resource lumps should rather be big chunks of plasteel/steel with some uranium/gold/jade/components around the edges.
Quick feedback - Randy extreme - Swamp
Packaed meal sometimes not counting for days of food/ caravan
Mini turrets got some armor ? some bandits (charge rifle ) shoots were reflecting or not doing dmg at all to them - Im double checking this
Infestations are out of control - too easy to trigger getting out of control way to fast - Also is way to easy to kite them to dead since they fall back after a certain distance
Suggestion : Im seeing a lot of issues with storage zones/methods - I think that the game should keep they leather and meat diversity - but storage should be way more flexible than it is adding shelves, boxes with certains amount of stacks per material in the same tile, refrigerated shelves for open spaces perhaps even letting to catalog/store only 1 type of stuff per shelves - plus it would look pretty that a bounch of stuff in the floor
quick example of something similar ------ ) https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=18589.0
Well if nothing else, once 1.0 releases, I'll make a mod, that adds steel, plasteel and uranium to long range mineral scanners. There was such a mod on here on forums for A17 i believe. If no one picks it up, i will. As you say plasteel at least dropped by mechs, but searching for uranium can be just downright atrocious. So adding it to scanner will be nice.
As for infestations - with their frequency caused by deep drills and etc. they should be easy to kite and fall back after some time, otherwise they'll be unstoppable. I hated the crap out of them in B18, where they just bumrushed you forever should a rock roof collapse on them...
I strongly disagree with the new order of skills in the character sheet. Shooting, melee, construction, mining are at the top. Players would logically consider these as important skills, whereas something way down on the bottom, like medical, would be regarded as unimportant.
That's wrong, and that's further substantiated by the Work Tab. Medical work is way up top, whereas mining and construction are further down the bottom. You can have a successful colony without a miner, but you won't get far without a good doctor.
Skills and work don't necessarily need to be in the exact same order in the worktab as they are in the character sheet, but the previous ordering had a lot more logic to them.
A herd of muffalos catches flu. Your handlers feed them with fine meals from your dining room even when barn has a ton of hay.
Food selection really needs improvements, especially when it comes to animals. With all that heavy nerfs they took keeping them is way too tedious.
Quote from: Tynan on June 28, 2018, 07:26:40 AM
Moved pekoe production from crafting spot to campfire and stoves. Normalized the way campfire work speed works; it's automatically 50% of normal, which allowed removing the custom campfire-only recipes for simple meal, pemmican, burn drugs, and burn apparel.
Nooooo, but what about the brewing workbench? The campfire makes sense, but stoves have already meals/pemmican to worry about, to the point where you need multiple running full time to keep a colony fed, while a brewing bench works only for like 1/20 of the year, and well its
brewing tea.
Also agree on having more minerals for the long range scanner, otherwise its pretty pointless since you would have to mine then and trade later, making it largely less valuable. Having the deposits disappear also seems valid, after a long of course, to avoid having a clutter of deposits filling up the map.
More notes:
- Mental breaks are still pretty bonkers, had two in succession with nearly filled mood pawns, fire spree specially, seems like they just do it because they can. Pic attached.
- Wimp 15% pain threshold, will get downed by literally anything, god forbid he gets a scar.
- Caravan chose to exit map via cave river, felt odd, pic attached.
- I've noticed that perishables now depend on gradual temperature on how long they will spoil, eg 1°C will last much longer than 9°C. Nice touch.
- Some of the inspirations feel rather short, like the trading/recruiting one, might be worth to make then longer but less frequent. Also there is no indication of how much time left the inspiration has.
- Pawn got food poisoning from eating insect jelly (for god knows what reason) immediately after forming caravan, they got nearly immobile for a day but pawn wasn't downed. Seems like a good enough balance to me.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I was worried why centipede would be so strong in 1.0.
I thought it might be because of armor, but suddenly I realized that they did not down anymore.
We have to do more damage until the centipede dies.
I think this is the one reason centipede seems to have increased HP.
It would be because the centipede enters a zombie state with a very small number of HP, which has been down to that state before.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 28, 2018, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: dnmr on June 28, 2018, 09:02:44 AM
something funny going on with hunting it seems, just had a character on the bring of breaking down, so i set him on 24/7 recreation, dude decided to go hunting turtle instead of meditating... Thanks NRA
That works as intended. If you set a pawn to sleep or recreation, they will sleep or recreate until their bar is full, then go work. They wont stay in bed or recreate indefinitely. If you want them to not do any job just take the jobs out in the work tab.
I have found my favorite method of keeping them close to home AND without messing with their work schedule or un-selecting and then reselecting things to hunt is to create a zone I call "Safe-ish" that encompasses an area just around my base, but doesn't include other areas that may be in "Home" but aren't very close to actual home like the outer walls, steam generators that may be external to base and other similar things. Then I just quickly set them on "safe-ish" until I am ok with them not being near the base.
I use this for pawns who have food poisoning, can't walk fast due for any reason, if there is a man-hunter pack, a raid is happening but they are still waiting to attack, etc.
Quote from: Mehni on June 28, 2018, 11:34:36 AM
I strongly disagree with the new order of skills in the character sheet.
Why not let players choose the order in the Settings..
Don't know if was mentioned,
but when single visitor with 'tradeable items' visits, You can give him a gift. I.e 250 bottles of beer, some bows and other stuff, and he'll happily carry that by himself to his village. Nice to see that it gives only +60 to relations, but there should be some capacity limit for gifts.
Also, creating Masterwork/Legendary things should get 'Grey Envelope' instead of just white-text notification in top-left corner
Quote from: Gfurst on June 28, 2018, 11:59:06 AM
More notes:
Mental breaks are still pretty bonkers, had two in succession with nearly filled mood pawns, fire spree specially, seems like they just do it because they can. Pic attached.[/li][/list]
Were the pawns in question Pyromaniacs? The traits Pyromaniac, Chemical Fascination and Gourmand have a random chance to trigger a mental break of a specific type (fire-starting, drug binge and food binge, respectively), regardless of mood.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 28, 2018, 07:38:39 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 07:31:58 AM
Deep drill changes - awesome! I don't see long range mineral scanner being capable of finding steel.. I think that could be a nice change though. I'd much more likely risk sending a caravan to get some steel, than gold or jade. :\
Also - flatscreen TV research being allowed is a cool change as well, thanks, Tynan!
Was it under a roof?
I feel you. Irl gold, jade, etc are worth more than steel, they are precious, but in rimworld you are thirsty for steel. It makes not much sense.
Also, since You cannot assign bed to prisoners, it would be nice (and logical) that every time before going to sleep they check for the most comfy bed (except Ascetic ones)
In regards to making deep drilling less grind-y, have you thought about implementing a mechanic similar to the watermills?
Make a single drill incapable of generating the hive event. Then, with each additional drill per "group" (within 7 tiles?), have a % increase chance.
This simulates more of a "mining vibrations draw the bugs" instead of a "whoops! We dropped into a bug hive!", which seems more accurate.
In regards to the scarcity of uranium, maybe make centipedes give small amounts of uranium (2-3 per)? They have to be powered by something. Make them nuclear!
Edit: haha just realized the link was to the exact spot I mentioned XD nvm.
Quote from: East on June 28, 2018, 11:59:25 AM
I was worried why centipede would be so strong in 1.0.
I thought it might be because of armor, but suddenly I realized that they did not down anymore.
We have to do more damage until the centipede dies.
I think this is the one reason centipede seems to have increased HP.
It would be because the centipede enters a zombie state with a very small number of HP, which has been down to that state before.
I wanted to check the exact difference in numbers, so I started experimenting.
3 people, 3 normal grade assault rifles, no cover, 10 spaces, colonist invincible ,1x speed ,20 shooting skill
I compared the 1.0 and B18 timers with how fast the centipede dies or goes down.
1.01) 56.35 2) 50.84 3) 51.10 4) 48.56 5) 51.06 Average) 51.582 sec
B18 1) 26.69 2)29.09 3) 28.46 4) 26.78 5) 31.69 Average) 28.542 sec
180% increase in time to defeat centipede.
The centipede should be weakened if it is not intended to increase 180% of centipede health.
Etc.
It is not so cool that the assault rifle and charge rifle are two shots. (Cool only regardless of efficiency) / B18 3 shots
You will see how important it is to be cool when you see a real shoot video and see how many shots you can fire continuously.
https://youtu.be/ztfXxgXqHGM?t=6s
Quote from: Mehni on June 28, 2018, 11:34:36 AM
I strongly disagree with the new order of skills in the character sheet. Shooting, melee, construction, mining are at the top. Players would logically consider these as important skills, whereas something way down on the bottom, like medical, would be regarded as unimportant.
Skills and work don't necessarily need to be in the exact same order in the worktab as they are in the character sheet, but the previous ordering had a lot more logic to them.
I think the idea here is that they're ordering skills based on bulky work on top and intellectual on bottom, not necessarily importance. Afaik, no skill is unimportant, and if anything you will more bulky workers than intellectual, more soldiers/growers/builders/miners/crafters than doctors/researchers.
Or having them ordered by the work type priority also seems sensible, but honestly either way for me is fine, its just a matter of getting used to it.
Quote from: gadjung on June 28, 2018, 12:41:02 PM
Also, since You cannot assign bed to prisoners, it would be nice (and logical) that every time before going to sleep they check for the most comfy bed (except Ascetic ones)
I indeed think it would be a good idea to assign beds to prisoners, and that would be even useful if you want for some to change rooms without it being of much of a hassle.
And while at that make animal beds assign-able too, the fluffy ones, not the sleeping spots. So you may assign preference to certain pets and maybe have them in a room with bonded master.
Quote from: East on June 28, 2018, 11:59:25 AM
I was worried why centipede would be so strong in 1.0.
I thought it might be because of armor, but suddenly I realized that they did not down anymore.
We have to do more damage until the centipede dies.
Good point there, I was wondering why they were such damage sponges, regular scythes are reasonably strong as well. I'm not opposed with them directly dying though, maybe make their capacities worse with condition, like shots taking more time and being more inaccurate , though they should be already somewhat like that. Maybe the problem is that mechs don't have proper internal organs (?), so its harder for them to reach a death condition.
One thing I have decided on in my game on long range mineral scanners. Do not use it. (Unless it is a special case such as sea ice)
Compare with deep drill.
Can it be used early?
deep: NO, long: NO
What is the risk of use it?
deep: low, long: high
Is the amount enough?
deep: much, long: low
How much labor and time do you need to go to work?
deep: high, long: crazy.
Interesting?
deep: boredom (but now re - installable), long: annoying.
Can you make a quick interval?
If you're lucky, you'll be right there. long: It takes a long time.
Besides, what minerals will not be known until they arrive.
There is no reason to use it. Even if you think progressively, I will not use it unless there is an ore that can only be acquired through the event like other events.
Quote from: East on June 28, 2018, 12:53:23 PM
It is not so cool that the assault rifle and charged rifle are two shots. (Cool only regardless of efficiency)
You will see how important it is to be cool when you see a real shoot video and see how many shots you can fire continuously.
https://youtu.be/ztfXxgXqHGM?t=6s
Yeah, and the minigun is rather anemic compared to its real life counterpart. Or the autocannon turret...
THIS is a minigun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC8jnSaCqxY
Also i'm getting memory leak issues, sometimes even after closing map (being in main menu). Screenshot attached. x86 version
[attachment deleted due to age]
I do think wimp might be a little punitive. They're not pawns I'm willing to work around until late game if I have access to a painstopper. Not just little injuries, but any arbitrary disease (even flu or gutworms), scarring, etc will just drop these guys. I guess if you want a really bottom-tier trait it does serve the function.
Pyros are an unfortunate liability. You can usually work around the fire starting spree, but if they do this in a raid situation they'll suicide into bullets. If it weren't for this I'd consider it a markedly more attractive trait than wimp :p.
Centipedes aren't so bad...until there's 6 or 12+ of them. Keep in mind East's example is utilizing a shooting skill that you won't have on 3 pawns in practice, and in a real game pawns aren't invincible, so you'll kite. If we're going > 90s per centipede and have 12 centipedes this is some pretty heavy amount of IRL micromanagement... > 10 minutes of IRL time just kiting centipedes. It's not hard per se', but man you can get sour feeling if you just killed a mech ship and then another half dozen of these things waddle in from the edge of the map as part of an ordinary raid.
Maybe snipers do better with armor pen? Their baseline DPS is lower though.
Pyros, Wimps and Druggies are just a dangerous liability, with wimps and druggies potentially being constantly incapacitated vegetables and pyromaniacs - burning half your storage down, no matter how happy or sad they are. Just don't ever recruit them, unless absolutely neccessary (like if a pyro has good medical skills and you have no decent doctor) - not having them is the ultimate solution.
Just tested the tornado generator on a faction city and the tornado kills pretty fast unarmored pawns, but armored ones takes very little damage from it. Maybe tornado damage should ignore armor?
EDIT: Also, when everyone started to flee, the guy managing the mortar didn't, his named stayed red and even after everyone leaves the map, he is still aggro.
EDIT2: They didn't have batteries so everything was offline since it was night and they only had one solar generator.
EDIT3: I know this is a suggestion but would love to see a difference between cities of factions, having small, medium and large. Right now they all look the same with basically the same difficulty no matter the faction or which city.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 28, 2018, 01:29:04 PM
I do think wimp might be a little punitive. They're not pawns I'm willing to work around until late game if I have access to a painstopper. Not just little injuries, but any arbitrary disease (even flu or gutworms), scarring, etc will just drop these guys. I guess if you want a really bottom-tier trait it does serve the function.
Pyros are an unfortunate liability. You can usually work around the fire starting spree, but if they do this in a raid situation they'll suicide into bullets. If it weren't for this I'd consider it a markedly more attractive trait than wimp :p.
Centipedes aren't so bad...until there's 6 or 12+ of them. Keep in mind East's example is utilizing a shooting skill that you won't have on 3 pawns in practice, and in a real game pawns aren't invincible, so you'll kite. If we're going > 90s per centipede and have 12 centipedes this is some pretty heavy amount of IRL micromanagement... > 10 minutes of IRL time just kiting centipedes. It's not hard per se', but man you can get sour feeling if you just killed a mech ship and then another half dozen of these things waddle in from the edge of the map as part of an ordinary raid.
Maybe snipers do better with armor pen? Their baseline DPS is lower though.
It isn't even so much the danger to the colony that makes pyros and chemfasc annoying to play around. It is the danger to themselves, as being liable at any time to decide that walking into 5 mechs with no cover is a good idea makes investing to them almost pointless.
Incidentally if you tone down wimp it would actually turn into a good trait. It is often far better for your pawns to go down early before they take critical bleeding / vital part damage than too late and end up with torso destroyed.
So, is there some kind of trick to killing the mechanoids that I'm unaware of, or is it completely unbalanced at the moment? 14 pawns with 10+ (most around 15) shooting, excellent sniper rifles, assault rifles and charge rifles stand virtually no chance against the god damn hordes of mechs that one psychic ship spawns. Hell, I've even tried antigrain warheads and artillery bombardment with only limited success.
You are underestimating pyromaniacs. Fires are probably the most destructive force in this game. And pyromaniacs tend to break in worst possible scenarious. Like when you're being invaded by a huge crowd of tribals, or some mechanoids drop right on your head. And right in that glorious moment a pyro decides, that its a good thing to set fire to your whole medicine supply. Its good if you can quickly dispatch a team to beat those fires out. Now imagine that mechanoids landed in the middle of your base and you can't stick a single nose out of cover, watchin how merry flames eat your valuables behind laughing mechanoids... Thank god, i am a calm person. I only flayed that bastard and made a chair out of him.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
You are underestimating pyromaniacs. Fires are probably the most destructive force in this game. And pyromaniacs tend to break in worst possible scenarious. Like when you're being invaded by a huge crowd of tribals, or some mechanoids drop right on your head. And right in that glorious moment a pyro decides, that its a good thing to set fire to your medicine supply. Its good if you can quickly dispatch a team to beat those fires out. Now imagine that mechanoids landed in the middle of your bas and you can stick a single nose out of cover, watchin how merry flames eat your valuables behind laughing mechanoids... Thank god, i am a calm person. I only flayed that bastard and made a chair out of him.
Firepoppers, stone-material things, good separation of burnable stuff and force attacking/arresting pyromaniac are You friends.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
You are underestimating pyromaniacs. Fires are probably the most destructive force in this game. And pyromaniacs tend to break in worst possible scenarious. Like when you're being invaded by a huge crowd of tribals, or some mechanoids drop right on your head. And right in that glorious moment a pyro decides, that its a good thing to set fire to your whole medicine supply. Its good if you can quickly dispatch a team to beat those fires out. Now imagine that mechanoids landed in the middle of your base and you can't stick a single nose out of cover, watchin how merry flames eat your valuables behind laughing mechanoids... Thank god, i am a calm person. I only flayed that bastard and made a chair out of him.
I'm speaking from experience, and that experience mirrors what bbq is saying. The worst part of the fire starting spree is that it can happen at any mood level and can easily get that pawn killed.
I'll still keep pyros around if they're useful in most cases. +5 mood from giving them a fire toy is nice and whatnot. But investing heavily in them? Nah. Not when they wander into gunfire arbitrarily.
The further along you are in the game, the less realistic a threat fire is. I definitely wouldn't take pyro as only pawn in a NB start, but I'd take one that can do violence and haul/clean as a 4th or something.
I honestly don't see why the flak jacket needs to exist. With the current state of textiles and considering the point at which I'd personally usually consider mass-producing armour, chances are that one'd already have access to overall better options such as heavy fur, bearskin or better textile dusters. Granted, there's a bit of playstyle variation involved here, but I personally feel that flak jackets don't really fill any niches other than possibly cheap-ish apparel that can protect the neck.
Flak pants are somewhat exempt since the gap between pants and flak pants is larger than the gap between dusters and flak jacket.
Also, purely flavour-based feedback here but it seems strange that upon inspecting textiles post-textile buff, heavy fur is as strong as plasteel in some aspects in terms of stuff power. Couldn't apparel items have just had their stuff power factors increased instead?
Quote from: gadjung on June 28, 2018, 02:45:49 PM
Firepoppers, stone-material things, good separation of burnable stuff and force attacking/arresting pyromaniac are You friends.
I did start putting firefoam posts in my storage after that horrific experience. And still having them go off each time those a-holes decide to go nuts is way too inefficient. And as for arresting him - as i said - there was a whole bunch of angry mechanical death between my sane guys and my storage. And only that psycho was conveniently near it.
So now i just execute every single pyro i see - problem solved. Radical answer is the right answer in this case.
So.... yeah. I just had a rare thrumbo event occur.
He spawned without a head. Not complaining, just.. pointing it out xD
His log shows just "thrumbo expired" ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Oh damn, been away for a month and a wall of text by Tynan. What are the updates TL;DR?
Also 2 more clones have popped up in Steam, seems that RimWorld has opened up the doors.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 01:37:18 PM
Pyros, Wimps and Druggies are just a dangerous liability, with wimps and druggies potentially being constantly incapacitated vegetables and pyromaniacs - burning half your storage down, no matter how happy or sad they are. Just don't ever recruit them, unless absolutely neccessary (like if a pyro has good medical skills and you have no decent doctor) - not having them is the ultimate solution.
Incidentally both were pyro and a druggie (in pictures I had attached), and they are among my favorite most useful pawns in the colony, and I believe there were also part of the original 3.
One being my chief, highest social, bloodlust melee, and first researcher. The other being my first medic, now smokeleaf addict. Even though now there are some pawns with better skills in the colony.
Though they break from time to time, they're still mighty useful, and are essential part of my "away team" on caravans, and never really that much problems with the fire though.
They sure can be useful, especially if you are starved for workforce. But their trait effects are so atrocious, i'd rather avoid having anything to do with them unless absolutely neccessary. Its not worth the pain in the ass.
They do have organs though, their skin makes for good chairs and of course dogs appreciate the kibble. So yeah, i can't really say they're useless..
They are time bomb that only hurts player. I get that they add dramatic values to the "story", but chemical interests and pyromaniacs are just newbie traps. Banish and move on.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on June 28, 2018, 02:50:02 PM
I honestly don't see why the flak jacket needs to exist. With the current state of textiles and considering the point at which I'd personally usually consider mass-producing armour, chances are that one'd already have access to overall better options such as heavy fur, bearskin or better textile dusters. Granted, there's a bit of playstyle variation involved here, but I personally feel that flak jackets don't really fill any niches other than possibly cheap-ish apparel that can protect the neck.
Flak pants are somewhat exempt since the gap between pants and flak pants is larger than the gap between dusters and flak jacket.
Also, purely flavour-based feedback here but it seems strange that upon inspecting textiles post-textile buff, heavy fur is as strong as plasteel in some aspects in terms of stuff power. Couldn't apparel items have just had their stuff power factors increased instead?
Actually plate armor even covers the neck, so it's really useless xD Perhaps it could be balanced with making heavy armor cost more mats, since 210 is cheap enough to have your whole colony wearing it soon after research.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
They sure can be useful, especially if you are starved for workforce. But their trait effects are so atrocious, i'd rather avoid having anything to do with them unless absolutely neccessary. Its not worth the pain in the ass.
They do have organs though, their skin makes for good chairs and of course dogs appreciate the kibble. So yeah, i can't really say they're useless..
Tynan's moving a bit too fast for you guys, pyro and gourmand are already lessened xD I guess druggies are still bad though.
Hm, i didn't see much deacrease in their deviancy though :/ Either way even with pyros breaking less, they ll still find a way to break exactly when you don't want them to. I like them in their true form - chair form.
Just imagine your researcher working in a legendary human leather chair, called "Fire's Embrace". Marvelous!
Seeing a lot of comments on the Centipedes and I just want to throw in my 2c.
I like the change. I like that they're harder to take down and are basically armored behemoths. Please don't make that easier. Those of you having issues with them, I've found great success with EMP grenades allowing melee pawns to get in and do crazy damage.
As for the new Wimp modifier, yea it's too much. Having someone permanently bedridden because they have a relatively small scar is a little off.
Quote from: rdshea3 on June 28, 2018, 04:33:58 PM
Seeing a lot of comments on the Centipedes and I just want to throw in my 2c.
I like the change. I like that they're harder to take down and are basically armored behemoths. Please don't make that easier. Those of you having issues with them, I've found great success with EMP grenades allowing melee pawns to get in and do crazy damage.
As for the new Wimp modifier, yea it's too much. Having someone permanently bedridden because they have a relatively small scar is a little off.
If you show me a video where you or someone else is killing 12 centipedes + other mechs in < 10 minutes IRL by just throwing EMP grenades and going ham I'll concede the point, learn this approach, and integrate it into my game.
Otherwise the tedium is a real issue. Most raids put time pressure on you in that you have to deal with them one way or another before something horrible happens. Centipedes take nearly that long just to move somewhere.
They are in a bad place due to the following combination:
- There are multiple ways to reliably hit them without taking return fire
- They sponge shots for an eternity, creating constant attention to what rapidly becomes a mundane task given how their AI works.
"Slow, but not that threatening" isn't ideal. If we're willing to accept the idea that deep drills feel like a grind, how are these things *not* a grind? Right now fighting mechanoids is STILL about trivially separating centipedes from the rest, killing the rest with easily favorable trades, and then either peek-shotting or kiting centipedes for free. Maybe if you have even more you might start firing mortars at centipedes. They're slow enough that you'll get plenty of chances.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on June 28, 2018, 04:44:18 PM
If you show me a video where you or someone else is killing 12 centipedes + other mechs in < 10 minutes IRL by just throwing EMP grenades and going ham I'll concede the point, learn this approach, and integrate it into my game.
Otherwise the tedium is a real issue. Most raids put time pressure on you in that you have to deal with them one way or another before something horrible happens. Centipedes take nearly that long just to move somewhere.
They are in a bad place due to the following combination:
- There are multiple ways to reliably hit them without taking return fire
- They sponge shots for an eternity, creating constant attention to what rapidly becomes a mundane task given how their AI works.
I'm not going to take a video, but my latest late game colony was dealing with literally constant mechanoid raids (that's another thing, why are 10/12 raids mechanoids late game?) and over a dozen centipedes was not a new thing. Two entrances lead to the same open courtyard with two autocannons and a few regular turrets, and a third leads to a killbox w/ 1 autocannon and 4 turrets. The killbox downs a centipede within 1 emp grenade while also hitting all the centipedes around it with stray shots. The courtyard requires I micro my grenadier behind some cover so I can get past 'adapted' and get the second stun, and the pedes are able to get a few shots off then. Even still I'm usually able to take one down within the first stun. They don't take over 10 minutes to take down, not even close. Maybe melee does make the difference, and I'm sure frag grenades would help a ton too. If you're kiting them around with 3 pawns with assault rifles in an open field maybe it'd take 10 minutes, but that's a cheezy way to play and you shouldn't be upset that a cheesy way to play doesn't make the most sense.
Edit:
I'd also like to add I have 1 block chokepoints in all of the entrances, which makes it substantially easier to hit 3 or 4 centipedes at once with an EMP grenade.
Can't use assault rifles to avoid shots, you need something at bolt action range or better (charge lance/snipers work too). AR is fast enough to shoot them and shut a door before they blast you though.
Per the above measured time at 3 20 skill (!) shooters immune to damage take 50 seconds to kill a centipede with continuous fire. Even with 2-3x the number of pawns, using realistic shooting skill values makes this a bad way to challenge them.
Maybe the boosted turrets are what's carrying you along with the EMP stun. I've played in 1.0 a ton now, but haven't used the super turrets yet because I'm tribal (that will be very late game for me, other research priorities first).
BTW: mechanoids display a temperature tolerance ranging from very cold to 250C. Does this mean they actually take damage above 250C now? Has anybody tested that out? I was under the impression they were immune to heat damage, but I don't recall B18 or before displaying that comfortable temp range. Given how fast-moving centipedes AREN'T, if it's possible to cook them it's a setup I'll certainly consider designing.
WRT animals, would it be unreasonable for bonded animals to require 0 training skill from their bondmate? This may help offset some problems..
WRT LR/deep mineral scanning, would it be unfeasible to make the ship sensor cluster act as a deep mineral scanner if connected (via structureal beams or directly) to a ship reactor? This would add some reason & reward for researching/building those ship parts rather than ignoring them (if not playing to escape) or putting them off until last (if escaping). The sensor cluster would act as a LR scanner if the ship was off the ground, but that's obviously only relevant for backstory
WRT armour, I've always been puzzled why the advanced helmet offers no eye protection.. RL riot (& lots of other) helmets have face shields after all..
WRT burst shots 3->2 adjustment I personally think that 3 rounds per burst 'feels right', esp with high-cycliic single-barreled weps such as SMG/MP, even AR
One day soon I'll be able to start a reasonable playthru, but ATM with daily or more frequent updates that ain't gonna happen :(
Quote from: rdshea3 on June 28, 2018, 04:33:58 PM
Seeing a lot of comments on the Centipedes and I just want to throw in my 2c.
I like the change. I like that they're harder to take down and are basically armored behemoths. Please don't make that easier. Those of you having issues with them, I've found great success with EMP grenades allowing melee pawns to get in and do crazy damage.
As for the new Wimp modifier, yea it's too much. Having someone permanently bedridden because they have a relatively small scar is a little off.
+1
Game in extreme need to be hard thats the whole point even to an unfair point - that difficulty should force players to think outside the box , plus most mods add op stuff (weapon /magic/factions) so the vanilla game should add something more since centipedes is probably the only vanilla enemie that achieve that
I still would like to see quest offering a harder take on that point specially raiding bases - monsters and so on after all its the "rimworld" landed in probably the worst most hostiles planets...
Just wanted to make a quick post for the beta with a couple quirks I have noticed so far.
Was in the process of recruiting a prisoner yesterday in the early game. She was a 95% difficulty recruitment and my two pawns had social skills of 2-3. It went as expected, recruit chances starting at 1% then going up to 2% and 3% as she warmed up to my pawns, when I noticed the chance had suddenly dropped to 0.5% and wouldn't rise. The prisoner's mood was fine; good even, I was keeping an eye on that. I restarted the game and the recruit chance bounced back up to ~1%, and rose with each attempt, as if she was warming up to my pawns all over again, even though they were both at 100 opinion with her.
Great job revamping caravaning, Tynan! It actually has me going out and traveling for a change. The only oddity I've noticed with caravaning is that pawns lose their assigned beds and don't have them reassigned automatically upon return. A tad annoying for couples, they don't go back to sleeping together until I notice and assign it, as well as our greedy or jealous pawns.
One last thing, would it be possible to make the wildlife tab show if an animal is manhunter or not? Perhaps a unique icon in the predator column. This would make the mass animal insanity event quite a bit more manageable in the early game, being able to tell easily if you've gotten them all.
Thanks again for all your hard work Tynan, and everyone else at Ludeon <3
P.S. Would it also be possible to add in a passive "Wind Turbine blocked by object" message? That would be wonderful!
QuoteGame in extreme need to be hard thats the whole point
Saying that in response to the arguments presented is, however, disingenuous and ignores the reality of what was said.
Sieges, sappers, drops right into base are all more challenging to win without taking damage than centipedes, and it isn't close.
Yet the argument is still about centipedes. It's useful to consider why that is, before repeating "hard is supposed to be hard".
Descriptions of artwork are not available when the item is in storage. You have to reinstall it before you can see what it is.
Quote from: Alenerel on June 28, 2018, 09:17:42 AM
Quote from: dnmr on June 28, 2018, 09:02:44 AM
something funny going on with hunting it seems, just had a character on the bring of breaking down, so i set him on 24/7 recreation, dude decided to go hunting turtle instead of meditating... Thanks NRA
That works as intended. If you set a pawn to sleep or recreation, they will sleep or recreate until their bar is full, then go work. They wont stay in bed or recreate indefinitely. If you want them to not do any job just take the jobs out in the work tab.
they weren't full on anything
I like that rot time is now given with 1 decimal point. But once it gets to less than a day, it only says 'less than a day', instead of 0.X days.
Having been forced to play around with miniturrets due to the autocannons requiring plasteel, I've noticed the ability to reposition them is an absolute game changer: Notably, playing flat maps with a turret strategy is no longer complete suicide: you can simply keep them all stored before battle, and because they take no time to plop down, you can move them wherever required. I'm playing a small hills (for increased metals) and this is working just great. I have built one autocannon on each side of the base for tanking, though.
Just a quick note about the new smooth rock walls.
When trying to remove them by mining, my pawns will hit them a few times with a pickax, and then stop mining and repair them.
I have to manually right click on the block and tell them to mine it, and then keep doing that until they finish
A few impressions with the new campaign:
- Bug? Cannot smooth corners which makes it problematic to run wires around corners. Also, the mining/repairing bug is definitely still going on. I have to micromanage mining a smoothed wall to keep them from repairing it.
- The mortars on rescue missions threw me; I accidentally let the game run for a few moments before switching over to the conflict map, and when I got there, there was a fire right next to my pawns and puddles of chemfuel; Luckily no one was hurt, because that would have been a bad way to start the rescue.
- pathing AI is still weird; Lost two hives (of 4) when caravans decided to path right through them when leaving the map.
- With the increase in missions/requests, I'd really like to be able to see a list of active quests, and have a way to deny them; Sometimes I get requests I can't fulfill or don't want to, and it'd be nice to just get those out of the way.
These 100% to the death sapper raids are just absolutely insane. I guess I can't argue since nobody died, but 8 poorly armed dudes and a few turrets vs 20 raiders who fight to the last man is just absolutely horrifying. Pretty much everyone bleeding out and getting infected, all the crops burned down :'(
Hey man, great game.
1 tiny request for 1.0 that would greatly improve my enjoyment of the game.
Could you make it possible through Scenario editor to start at default tech but with less research researched. So like you could have the regular research costs but less research then the normal new arrivals. Currently you can set your faction to tribal and give yourself all the techs in the game using scenario editor but not the other way around which seems not backwards if you get what I'm saying.
Anyways I've been enjoying the new updates a lot.
Hello Tynan, been loving RimWorld for nearly 800 hours of play time and am enjoying 1.0 so far. Thought I'd jump on this forum to report a bug I hadn't noticed in previous versions.
Two tribals, Crane & Senra, broke up. Crane broke it off. Senras social tab says "Crane asked Crane for a break", but Cranes social tab says "Crane asked Senra for a break". Their other interactions seem to be accurate. I'll try to attach pictures.
https://i.imgur.com/UqXxsO1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fH1bWnj.jpg
Quote from: dnmr on June 28, 2018, 05:51:22 PM
they weren't full on anything
Last patch introduced behavior where if a pawn is at 50% of recreation and he has tolerance for existing recreation things, he wont try to endlessly recreate using them. Read it, its in the patch notes.
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 28, 2018, 08:18:34 AM
- Disliking the "..." a lot,
- Things deteriorating while outside but roofed feels weird. I always liked that there was a clear use for making open, roofed structures with pillars. Now the stockpile will just be another room.
Thanks for that. I am concerned people don't realize I was talking about that. I'm glad I am not the only one.
I also have some misgivings about the storage. It makes sense, but I was enjoying using open caves for storage and now it is less viable. Of course, I also used an open roofed area with just a few pillars for storage. At times it cost me, when the pillars were shot out and stuff was crushed, but I excercised the option of building that way.
Attached Bionics/Wealth
So during my transhumanist playthrough I realized something that I frankly should've noticed in previous versions where I've used mods to craft bionics - Bionics don't increase the market value of the pawn they're attached to. The wealth appears to just evaporate.
In fact.. if you use the vast majority of your resources to acquire and attach bionics you can sink a huge amount of wealth into pawn power without seeing a difficulty increase.
Now of course pawns doing things more quickly due to bionic parts does skill them up faster which does increase their value.. but not enough to offset dropping 2800 wealth from attaching an archotech leg.
Long Range Mineral Scanner (LRMS from now on)
In regards to the discussion about the LRMS ( Which basically amounts to " It's too dangerous to do when compared to deep drilling ") I can't say I agree with people that it's pointless or that steel/plasteel would always be preferable.
The precious metals obtained are worth an absolute crapload when sold and you can ask for a trade caravan from an ally every 4 days. They can be made allies by simply gifting them the aforementioned metals to begin with.
If given the choice between a LRMS deposit that contained steel or contained gold I'd always pick the gold because both sites are going to contain just as much volume.
The gold($10.0) however is worth 5x more than the steel($1.9). Even when accounting for buying/selling modifiers you're still much better off with the gold.
And all of that is before you account for turning it into something worth more than the sum of its raw parts, eg: Art.
Don't get me wrong - There's still intrinsic risk to seeking out LRMS deposits and for some colonies the risk might not be worth the reward. However I think a lot of people aren't even considering using allied trade.
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Frankly my only complaint is that when you do go to an LRMS deposit that has a threat at it (Sleeping mechanoids, enemy outpost ect) with a small party or even an individual with pack animals is that you can't leave the site without it disappearing.
Often I'll send 1-2 people and some pack animals after LRMS deposits to minimize visibility and the manpower drain to my colony only to be disappointed when I arrive.
Not because the threat is unmanageable or because I wouldn't consider fighting them to get to the resources.. but because my only option if I want to do that is to literally camp out on the edge of the site until backup arrives. Sometimes that's immediately viable (No threats at home, drop pods ready ect) More often than not however it's not.
An option to leave the site but not have it disappear the moment that none of your colonists are there would be nice.
Sending Caravans to friendly towns
Now that you can request caravans from factions fairly cheaply I find myself struggling to justify sending out trade caravans to settlements even though they've always got a significantly better stock. Mostly because I have absolutely no idea what they will have in stock until I arrive.
Many things (Archotech, insanity lances, pain stoppers, luciferium, neurotrainers ect) are well worth the trip to a nearby settlement to acquire .. but with no idea as to what they will have until I arrive that risk/reward decision becomes increasingly hard to justify.
In most cases I'd happily pay to learn what they have in stock ahead of time.
Given that you can already communicate with factions via the comms console to request caravans it doesn't seem unreasonable to be able to call up your neighboring settlements and ask them if they've got any milk. Or rocket launchers. Or Human leather.. for.. reasons...
So, I haven't managed to put together another report on the status of Darg's Dregs, but I notice that Plate Armor doesn't seem to have an unfinished state: my crafter just takes 210 steel to the Smithy and starts crafting, but the steel never turns into Unfinished Plate Armor. This means that if she stops work on the armor, I lose all progress.
I'm actually kinda of confused how to even get allies. Sending my own trade caravans is increasing relations at a snails pace, and hostile/savage keep reducing relations once you get them to neutral :/
I guess i can see why you would prefer gold over steel in some cases, but don't forget that not only you will have to sell it with horrible markup, you'll also have to get lucky for trade caravans you summoned to actually have steel for you to buy. And if they don't - you're stuck with a pile of wealth you don't need luring some more raiders. While getting steel is just straightforward - you mine it, bring it back, build stuff making your life easier.
Not to mention that having plasteel\uranium will be preferable just anytime, since those rare and extremely expensive materials.
Hey there, since I've been playing 1.0 beta with no mods I decided to get rid of most of my tendencies with selecting colonists or types of stability - whatever works just to look for new content. This led me to use a Nightowl for the first time in a very long while, since that was the short list of "extremely unfun traits that you play with once and randomize/remove forever afterward".
Sorry if this is kinda irrelevant to the 1.0 stuff, but it really irks me that "nightowl" is just a fancy phrase for "permanent mood debuff". If you keep them awake during their day rest period, they get a -10 (reasonable). But if you flipflop their rest schedule and have them work at night, they get a "darkness" debuff which is -5. What gives? Aren't they nightowls for crying out loud? Shouldn't the darkness debuff just not apply to them? If you want someone to have a trait that says "this person is permanently unhappy and always gets -5", that's fine (and it's actually a thing), but disguising the same trait with "nightowl" text as if you can do something about it is just very unsatisfying.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 09:24:20 PM
I guess i can see why you would prefer gold over steel in some cases, but don't forget that not only you will have to sell it with horrible markup, you'll also have to get lucky for trade caravans you summoned to actually have steel for you to buy. And if they don't - you're stuck with a pile of wealth you don't need luring some more raiders. While getting steel is just straightforward - you mine it, bring it back, build stuff making your life easier.
In regards to the markup: You're paying 150% to buy the steel ($2.85) and selling the gold at 50% ($5). (165% markup on Extra Hard, 180% for Extreme | Selling at ~45% on Extra Hard, %40 on Extreme)
Additionally you can request Bulk Goods traders from Outlander factions which insofar as I can tell always have steel.
Also it's worth noting that this is before the negotiator bonus that scales with social skill. Prices improve considerably as your negotiator becomes more competent.
And as said earlier.. this is all before turning the materials in question into more efficient items to sell, art has a 110% sell multiplier on it so even a Normal quality gold sculpture is increasing the value of the gold considerably.
Quote
Not to mention that having plasteel\uranium will be preferable just anytime, since those rare and etremely expensive materials.
For the record Uranium
is on the list of things that the LRMS can find. Plasteel and Steel are the only materials it will not find.
Plasteel certainly is very expensive and the cost comparison between gold and plasteel is less impressive. It doesn't change the fact that you can fairly trivially and at low cost turn anything the LRMS finds into whatever materials you would prefer to have.
- I do know about both negotiator bonus and also about markup scaling with difficulty. I always play on extreme more or less, so for me its kind of bad. I'd rather get steel, than a bunch stuff i'll have to trade for it. Of course, if you have negotiator of lvl 20 then losses aren't quite as high but still. But I rarely ever have a pawn of such skill, unless i have some mod activity, that raises it on a regular basis (i do know you can raise it by keeping a bunch of prisoners and chatting with them endlessly, but prison breaks are a pain).
- Summoned bulk goods traders often have like... 200-300 steel. Thats literally nothing. Its 1-1.5 autocannon barrel replacement. So you either need to get a lucky orbital trader with it, or just slowly summon bulk goods caravans, getting 200-300 steel each 4 days paying for caravan summons. Meh.
- You can of course gamble with gold item crafting\art, but honestly - it can go bad both ways, either you get an extremely good one, with crazy price, that no trader can afford ever and also causing raids to explode in numbers, or you can get a crappy one just flushing your profits down the toilet.
- I didn't know it can find uranium, it never did for me. But if it can - thats cool, good to know. Thanks.
In conclusion - i just don't like depending on trade. I don't see it quite as efficient a way to turn one material into other as you do. Its way too random to get you what you need reliably and in a timely manner. As such i'd still prefer steel over gold\jade anytime in those LRMS deposits.
As I've said before, developers need to be aware that mechanized raids, especially drop attacks, occur too often in late games.
https://i.imgur.com/1JOANPP.png
https://i.imgur.com/5ARbbq4.png
https://i.imgur.com/D5q6o4T.png
https://i.imgur.com/5XHK5Bk.png
These screenshots are described below.
quarter / day
4 / 8 a group of mechanoids from a mechanoid hive have dropped in right on top of you!
4 / 11 a group of mechanoids from a mechanoid hive have dropped in right on top of you!
1 / 3 a group of mechanoids from a mechanoid hive have dropped in right on top of you!
1 / 5 a group of mechanoids from a mechanoid hive have dropped in right on top of you!
It is problematic that four consecutive drop raids occur at narrow intervals that are difficult to recover.
If it was not a drop attack but mechanoid, it was 5 consecutive.
Is this just a bad luck result? Or is it a problem with point systems?
@Boboid I'm not in the position to upload my save games sadly, I do however am thankful you're trying to suggest ways to fix my priority problems. Perhaps there is an elegant way to do it, and I've yet to master it. If wouldn't mind some tips in a seperate thread on how to manage my crafting problems.
On the centipede: I think centipede as it is atm IS fine, but centipede(s) are not. I'd rather fight two tough centipedes than five weaker ones. Part of the issue is that the only truly reliable way to defeat them is overwhelming dakka and EMP/macemen bashing. And while these are good methods that rewards players in setting up turrets and equipping good melee fighters, I think a third method should be slow single shot sniping.
(Also if we can get a good and proper warhammer/longaxe that'd be great too thx ty you the best)
I got myself a charge lance (masterwork) the third year in from a quest, I sent my best shooter to a centipede with it and it bounces off like 50% of the time. I got tired and just had 8 other pawns with ARs/charge rifles drown it in bullets. Considering that the bolt-action used to be a Lee-Enfeld and that rifle uses a .303, perhaps it should do higher damage? Even a small sniper squad should reliably able to take it down but the sniper rifle atm kinda sucks because it's way too slow and the range isn't worth it.
As for the lancers/scythers, I like them as they are! Good job on em'.
On pirate BASES (not outposts), you only get a single day to loot all the things. I would like for this time to be increased to maybe a few days so I can properly loot everything. Pirate bases are high risk and high rewards, it's a mighty shame it's hard to deconstruct all the things I want because it takes a while to do so especially if my pawns are really injured.
Speaking of caravaning, the attack button when trading with friendlies is waaaaay too close together for my liking and has been for a while. Could we have a "are you sure?" if we misclick on it?
I also agree with others needing to ally so much just to order caravans. Rather than decreasing them, maybe if we're neutral or know each other-ish, we can summon caravans via silver like in B18 and THEN ask them via relationship points? It'd also be nice if we can you just right click on the comms console, and rather than showing all available factions, it brings up the UI and THEN shows the factions. How many times have y'all right click on the pirate faction and then press escape and then you pawn is already off to do their other job? I'm not sure how much fleshed out the faction system could be, other than perhaps being able to pay off pirates to go away for a year and begging for friendlies to send over some weapons/medical supplies.
Quote from: KyCygni on June 28, 2018, 09:34:48 PM
Sorry if this is kinda irrelevant to the 1.0 stuff, but it really irks me that "nightowl" is just a fancy phrase for "permanent mood debuff". If you keep them awake during their day rest period, they get a -10 (reasonable). But if you flipflop their rest schedule and have them work at night, they get a "darkness" debuff which is -5. What gives? Aren't they nightowls for crying out loud? Shouldn't the darkness debuff just not apply to them? If you want someone to have a trait that says "this person is permanently unhappy and always gets -5", that's fine (and it's actually a thing), but disguising the same trait with "nightowl" text as if you can do something about it is just very unsatisfying.
The darkness refers to being in an unlit room, which is cured via lamps. Someone working the night shift could enjoy it, but not working in complete darkness :P
Quote from: Dargaron on June 28, 2018, 09:16:18 PM
So, I haven't managed to put together another report on the status of Darg's Dregs, but I notice that Plate Armor doesn't seem to have an unfinished state: my crafter just takes 210 steel to the Smithy and starts crafting, but the steel never turns into Unfinished Plate Armor. This means that if she stops work on the armor, I lose all progress.
I ran into this as well in current build and reported the bug
Quote
I don't see it quite as efficient a way to turn one material into other as you do.
The reason I see it as an efficient way to turn one material into another is because.. the math works out that way and I've used exactly what I'm describing to you myself with no issues. Here's an example.
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LRMS yield: 420 gold (A 3x4 lump of gold at 35 gold per square) which is lowballing the average gold number considerably but some deposits will be jade which is worth considerably less so lets go with this for now.
Raw value: $4200
Value when sold on Extreme with 8 social skill: 1882 (base value: 10, x0.50 selling modifier, x0.80 difficulty modifier, negotiator bonus 12%, adjusted value 4.48)
Value of steel: 1.9, adjusted for purchasing with 8 skill 3.01.
Cost of 300 steel at 3.01: 903.
So you're up 979 value right there.
All figures double checked in-game.
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I'd say the average steel per bulk goods caravan is ~350 but I'm happy to lowball to 300.
The point is that you don't even need to turn the raw materials into art for it to be efficient and profitable.
You're only paying 15 reputation with a faction per trade caravan.
Depending on the volume of trade per transaction you can get ~5 reputation back just from the trade itself. You can pay/gift ~380 silver for +15 reputation, which means you're still up ~600 silver and ~300 steel from the entire process.
And that's all with just 8 social skill and lowballing the numbers. And ignoring the additional benefits of the trade caravans themselves.
Overall trading like this is pretty much 100% reliable as you have control over every aspect of the process except for the possible threat's at LRMS locations. Which could be seen as potentially increasing profits - especially when the threat is a small group of sleeping mechs.
1.0 really is the best time to be trading. The system is in a better shape than it's ever been.
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@Ser Kitteh
I've just sent you you a message. We'll figure out something that works
Quote from: Boboid on June 28, 2018, 10:50:53 PM
Stuffs on steel trade from LRS
This is more of an issue on extreme which is probably why you're feeling this way. On extreme,
A) turrets are burning through metal like crazy due to increased threats
B) You're getting more trade goods from mechanoid plasteel and such
So you're more likely able to able to afford to buyout steel all the steel you can trade for (so no need for gold), and you need more than you can buy.
Mostly I'm concerned with how this is going to affect "permaforts" (stay on map, no ship): everyone else can just deep drill enough on the map for the ship. Sounds like you're just going to run out eventually.
One other thing: you still have to walk to and escort your miners for the LRS. This ends up being far worse than deep drilling, even without escort. I guess this is less of an issue of steel vs gold, and more of a just "LRS sucks" point, though.
So, built my first Autocannon...I'm not impressed. I built it on the side of my base towards an Ancient Danger, and figured that opening the Danger would be a good trial run. Inside were three Lancers and one Minigun-toting Centipede.
The Autocannon averaged a 19% chance to hit Lancers in the open at medium range. Against the Centipede, it was closer to 32%. It did take out two of the Lancers with lucky shots to the Torso while my colonists focused on the Centipede, but at the cost of nearly 200 steel in maintenance.
EDIT: Hmm, new datapoint. Got an Outlander raid immediately after, and the Autocannon was able to hit roughly one shot per volley, and did severe damage each time. It's still bloody expensive to maintain, but it's at least effective.
Out of curiosity, why tribals get both ur-board and chess table?
QuoteYet the argument is still about centipedes. It's useful to consider why that is, before repeating "hard is supposed to be hard
The argument was that its manageable even with those numbers for some people and in my opinion should remains as it is or even harder - so im against a nerfing on centipedes in that difficulty.
So its useful to consider that I couldnt care less about your argument because I wasnt even talking to you to begin with
Quote from: klun on June 29, 2018, 12:21:53 AM
So its useful to consider that I couldnt care less about your argument because I wasnt even talking to you to begin with
This is statement carried no information, is unkind and unnecessary and not useful; it's a rule violation. Let's not do this please.
I wanted to create a campaign through the scenario editor.However, the current editor is only able to manipulate the initial situation. Do not you want to dramatically improve the scenario editor?
I'm getting a note that I need more recreation variety. Apparently I need 6 types of recreation. However, I've built all the items available to build for recreation (except the new flat screen TV). Am I missing something or does this need to be fixed? Do I really need drugs and/or chocolate to fill that need? I REALLY don't want to have drug use as part of my game play.
My feedback is: Cassandra is way too hard now l0l QQ
Quote from: Ardshael on June 29, 2018, 12:59:40 AM
I'm getting a note that I need more recreation variety. Apparently I need 6 types of recreation. However, I've built all the items available to build for recreation (except the new flat screen TV). Am I missing something or does this need to be fixed? Do I really need drugs and/or chocolate to fill that need? I REALLY don't want to have drug use as part of my game play.
I currently have 6 types of recreation without the use of drugs or chocolate: Solitary relaxation, social interaction, dexterity play, cerebral play, telescope study, and television watching.
I kind of hate the new wet moodlets in the rain. They always stack with something else and seem to be last straw to something awful, like damn catatonic state. It just doesn't add anything to the game, that you can influence at all. At least you can just avoid river maps (just like i do), so that dumb pathfinding doesn't force them to always hunt in the river. But rain? All you can do is either roof your whole base (and get darkness moodlets instead, unless you light your whole base like a christmas tree) or force all your pawns to stay indoors until it ends. This is really unneeded and annoying. They already whine and complain over each and every small thing they can, sometimes even about what they shouldn't (like "oh so innocent prisoner died, that tried to burn us all alive" moodlet). Please remove this nuisance if possible.
They have their magical multitool that lets them chop n pick n dig, so let it also have a compact umbrella inside.
here's a long story:
Build 1.1948
custom tribal - no starting weapons or pets
phoebe medium
river centered in map flows north-south, 3-5 tiles wide, 80% of it covered by hills. Mountains on south side of map, 3 cave systems with insects. 50/60 days of growing. Defending this map should be easy.
We begin making shelter, living in 1x2 bedrooms, and eating raw food. I search for steel and find 6 nodes guarded by insects, one in the top left corner of the map and no others. Very odd for a mountain map. A week passes and we have recurve bows all normal or better and wooden war masks.
Raid: 1 club wielding pyro. Dead.
2nd week: A grizzly bear and a warg tried to hunt colonists. They were outranged. Deconstructing the stone buildings on the map yielded us 1500 stone blocks across 4 types. 3 bedrooms, a prison/hospital and a warehouse were built.
Raid: 2 club wielding pirates. Captured, became lovers AND proposed in my prison. Recruited one so far which is sad for everyone. Their lover is my second best warden and cant quite convince them somehow?
Refugee event. Pawn I got is incapable of violence (ugh.) but has passion for many things. Two attackers brought us the worst poor revolvers you could imagine. They paid with their lives.
Third raid brings an excellent autopistol user and another terrible revolver. The revolver dude lights my second research table on fire (warehouse had an opening because expanding it) and by the time he has done that his partner has received his fair share of arrows to the face.
I do feel that raids should care more about fighters vs fighters numbers but perhaps this is just the difficulty I chose. Why would they think that a 2v6 is favourable and come all this way to attack us especially when they have stronger weapons? Either bring more people or more tactics.
At this point I rename my colonists so that I know who is male and female and give them names I can pronounce.
It's about day 30. Peace talks event went good, +60 rep with tribe, but returning caravan appeared in the south cavern and was immediately under attack by the insects in it. Frustrating that they would do that when every other side of the map is open.
At the end of summer a toxic fallout hits and lasts 12 days, a cold snap starts the same day the fallout ends. Crops are ruined. Thankfully I'm greedy and my growers love growing so I have plenty of corn and healroot. Wood however is depleted by the end of this, and my prisoner nearly gets frostbitten because his clothes deteriorated to nothing.
A week later another peace talks with an outlander faction, went poorly, -20, but they didnt become enemies. They are however still enemies with the tribe. I knew this when I got two trade caravans in one day. My colony's wealth went up from 30000 to 38000 in under a day. I buried 9 strangers and took the silver and the goods I had sold back from the downed caravan. Rescued one from each side for a slight boost in rep. And stripped a merc of their flak gear, sent them home naked in nice weather.
I only lost a table and a baby alpaca in the fight, while proving that my base set up can handle mercs armed with grenades and LMG's. The tribesmen would have won the fight if they used the bows I sold them. They lost 5 melee people without getting hits in. this was fun to watch and benefit from but I hope it isn't too common.
If this sort of thing were to be more common I would expect compensation for hosting the fight or choosing sides, or even staying neutral and allowing all traders to pass freely. As it stands even If my colony was large enough to settle disputes like this, I am powerless to diplomatically resolve it.
I get the feeling not many people play on phoebe but it is the most relaxing. It is also the hardest to level medicine without resorting to carving up every prisoners left ears kidneys and lungs until they die. Doing such things should honestly dissolve rep from their factions or make it harder for factions to trust you. I wouldn't want to trade with torturers and cannibals.
Every 3 days cargo pods bring some kinda vegetable or textile. I have had medicine and components rain down before but I'm not that lucky all the time. Just need to research how to melt steel.
Alpaca revenge from taming. Colonist downed. Day later their torso is infected. Kinda my fault for not cleaning the hospital but kinda her fault for fleeing into another alpaca. Can we just have fleeing pathfind them towards their last bed in the home zone?
Unrelated note before I forget: it is virtually impossible to see if a bed is being affected by a vitals monitor. If this would be more clear somehow that would be great. Perhaps the ghost thing like workbenches have.
Apparently I have a uranium longsword. Is it worth using I wonder. Highest pawn with melee still has more shooting.
60 days in. 3 alpacas get the plague. So nice of me to have stored that where they sleep. :P
there's a cat with a shattered spine still laying in my base from that merchant skirmish. I don't know if killing it incurs penalty so it sits there.
Day 61: raid. 5 people. 2 knifes. 2 molotovs, 1 revolver. They appear on the only side i've built a wall. The wall does not reach the edge of the map but the hill it is attached to comes close. I predict they will split up. I have 6 people capable of violence and I severely outgun these fools. Being on fire sucks and a colonist runs outside the walls in panic because it is in the home zone. They get downed and are burning. I call bullshit and load the game for the first time. There is no reason to run outside into a firefight with no cover when you were standing beside two people who can put that fire out and they would all be behind the wall at that point. A lot of this game to me is fighting the AI for control... cant really be helped. At some point the game would play itself. It is silly to me that that could be prevented by changing the home zone.
After loading: fight went better and nothing dumb happened. One of their people got burned and got 4 infections to 70% before I released them. They probably died 5 minutes after that but it doesn't matter somehow.
My builder with 4 social got inspired recruitment. I have one prisoner left. Guess what happened. I suppose they'll be married soon
3 people got malaria. Glad I didnt send them out for that prisoner.
Remember that cat that couldnt move? A warg ate it. I lost 3 rep. Fair enough.
Escape pod man is staggeringly ugly. He's also a cook, animal handler and a researcher. He hasn't joined so my researcher who is currently the best smith of my 9 colonists is filling out the request for 8 normal or better ikwa(s). I'm not sure what the plural is. Apparently you can make them out of wood... so whatever. I get a minigun out of this trade. Dude makes a masterwork wooden ikwa. I refuse to use it.
Day 79 Raid appears and waits at the edge of the map. I have 5 people with 3 greatbow, 1 bolt action and 1 assault rifle pick away at them until they attack. They "attacked" and lost another and fled. Captured 2 of them.
Trader showed up with a pet alphabeaver: it promptly ate 10 of my half grown cocoa trees. Later that week Rhino self-tame, hooray!
Caravan traded successfully, went sideways to an incapacitated refugee. Hopefully no threat there. Aaaaaand half the caravan got muscle parasites. So Howard is unlucky. I only sent two people and an alpaca.
Simple meals keep rotting away. People keep eating pemmican first. No way to stop that without forbidding pemmican every time it is made, which is tedious and unfun. Perhaps make simple meals tastier than pemmican?
We have no fruit bearing trees. Just saying.
Back to the caravan. After patching up the refugee, I noticed our food didn't last, our dude with muscle parasites also has frail. He hunted 2 muffalo for food with the new minigun and then snapped. Spent 9 days of juggling mood swings and food poisoning, I have made a tiny base for 3 people so that they are ready to head back home, which should only take 2.5 days with adequate supplies. I overshot it, and we have 8 days of food now. Better safe than sorry.
Wanderer joins, ascetic tunneler in perfect health. Can't complain about this one. Which reminds me, is tunneler supposed to be super common? I find it so often when rerolling pawns.
Caravan shows up I trade away clothes for silver, and gift them 7 healthy alpacas for 44 rep. Then they got hit by cargo pods when leaving. an alpaca died and i lost 3 rep. unavoidable, glad it didnt hit their people, i thought this was fixed or was that only for the player faction?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: PurpleTonberry on June 29, 2018, 01:26:16 AM
I currently have 6 types of recreation without the use of drugs or chocolate: Solitary relaxation, social interaction, dexterity play, cerebral play, telescope study, and television watching.
Ahhh OK. Thanks. The telescope is a 6th type of recreation. I don't have one. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen one this game.
Been playing Randy Random intense on butt naked start and completed my first year of the game. I've been playing off and on for a while and I had a few successful runs before this, but I've got this weird thing in my brain where I've got to start a new game every time the game is patched. And since the game is being patched nearly every day now, sometimes twice a day, I've made many restarts along the way. I think I'm in a spot where I can finally make comments on the early-mid game.
First off, I think the game is in a very good spot right now combat-wise. I haven't gotten a chance to get plate armor yet, but I've dealt with flak jackets and pants and the new armor system is a treasure. Submachine guns and other fast reloading weapons are the weakest in this new system by far. Rifles and heavy damage pistols like the revolver with high accuracy rule the day. Snipers as well to a lesser extent because of high skill needed. I think the most important thing as far as combat is concerned is, equipped properly, pawns are far more durable and much less prone to randomly lose important limbs from a single attack. Which in all honesty just isn't fun.
I think the changes to missions were a great change. The trade rewards are in a good state right now. Every once and a while you'll get something silly like a Golden Pet Box or something that there's no way you would take that mission, but I went from doing zero missions in 0.8 to doing two or three in your average year if I have the materials required. However, the missions to rescue colonists are simply too risky to ever take part in. I would still like to see some system where we can see the stats or at least get a general idea of the colonist we need to rescue. You have to use a caravan, putting your own colonists and several days of munitions at risk to rescue a single person, so there's no way you would do that to get a pyromaniac wimp who won't do skilled labor. In the current state, those missions are a non-starter for me. I *might* do the colonist rescue missions depending on who got kidnapped, but again that's because I know their skillset.
As for skills, I feel like crafting is a bit hard to get started from scratch. It's a small change, but it would really help if you buffed the amount of work required to do clubs. That would really help get to the early level 2 crafting where you can craft a shortbow, which could mean life or death in your run at the early stages of the game. Right now, clubs are just too easy to make so when I'm trying to train crafting, I just run out of material. I end up filling entire storehouses worth of clubs, sellable of course, but I'd much rather have constant training so I can get to level 2 and the shortbow.
By the way, Randy Random is a tremendous jerk. I played for about 2 Quantums and I didn't have anything happen to me. And then suddenly, I get 12 raids in a single Quantum, sometimes 12h apart from each other. I've been able to overcome this with a swastika defense ring in the middle of my base, two wooden walls with the middle lined by death-falls. Don't judge me. I didn't realize what I was doing till I already did it and it works so...I'm fine with it! And I've noticed that Raiders are far less willing to chase you down those hallways. Not sure if it's a programming change, but good job on that. Seriously though. 12 raids in a Quantum? I've got no way to get rid of bodies, so they've been piling up on the opposite side of the map. I think I'm at close to 30 bodies now and two prisoners. It's been a trek. Thanks Randy Random. I'm a year into the game, 9k colony wealth, one pawn and every raid is averaging 3-5 raiders with a combination of bows and knives. Easily defendable with some luck, but it's been a rough road.
I think the difficulty to recruit from savage tribes needs to be nerfed ever so slightly. Most starts give you an outlander union, a savage tribe faction, and a pirate faction all hostile to you. But I never encountered a raid from the outlander union due to which I assume is my low colony wealth and the average person I imprison from the Savage tribe is around 75-99% difficulty to recruit and I think that is a little too high. I also find it's pretty hard to find colonists to recruit with high intelligence among tribes, which is essential to progressing in the game. That's been my experience in just this game and I've been looking at the stats of every raider that comes through, but that's just been the occurrence in just the one game I played so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.
For the most part, the items I'm equipped with are the scavenged items of my enemies. And while I haven't had a chance to do it in this game, animal swarms are still pretty strong and a valid strategy especially with the changes to ranged combat ending when you enter into melee range. It works great with boar swarms and the Alpaca army. Animal training XP ramps up a little bit too quickly now that you can repeat training with animals you already have. Especially if you have the flame. You fly up to level 10+ before you know it with a pawn, especially if you have a flame. I think that needs to be nerfed a bit. Not much though!
Those are really all the thoughts I have right now! It's been a fun game so far. I'm not sure if I'll progress much further. RR Intense with butt naked start is difficult. By the time I'm done cleaning up after the last raid, another raid is coming!
https://i.imgur.com/24d2xGL.jpg
enemies base in the middle of river
New build going up.
Here's the raw changelog:
----
Need recreation sources alert shows the sources you don't have as well as those you do.
Minor code rearrangement in some caravan-related code.
Added debug command to give plague to people in caravans.
Adjust food poison chance.
Increase raider death rate a bit now that rescue quests are more of a thing.
Made an alert when a pawn is assigned to recreation or in need of recreation is bored of all recreation types, with an explanation of what to do about it.
Rename some ToString methods for consistency.
We can now customize per-ThingDef the work it takes to uninstall a building. Made uninstall work longer for deep drills.
Outlander towns always sell plasteel and uranium.
Rebalanced what long range mineral scanner finds. More variety, more uranium, plasteel is possible.
The game now informs you why a pawn got food poisoning.
Fix: Food poison chance from room doesn't apply if roomless. Chanced food poison chance from room cleanliness from a factor to an offset.
Slight rebalance on centipede; he's a bit faster now.
We now always let the player know about SiteParts (except ambushes).
Fix: Insects spawned by deep drills attack deep drills.
It's now impossible to shoot in melee.
Fix: It's possible to capture a downed refugee via reform caravan screen even when he's surrounded by sleeping mechanoids.
More FactionBase -> Settlement changes.
Panthers can haul now, i haven't seen that mentioned in any patch notes. Is that a bug? Or are there more hidden patch notes on animals? Because its one of my favorite changes!
Quote from: cactusmeat on June 29, 2018, 01:57:13 AM...
Remember that cat that couldnt move? A warg ate it. I lost 3 rep. Fair enough.
...
I read this whole story and was laughing from the halfway point. This line in particular I found hilarious. Thank you. For some reason the clipped writing style made it funnier.
- Increase raider death rate a bit now that rescue quests are more of a thing.
> God, wasn't 66% rate already high?? I don't want to have to send my people to die trying to rescue an invalid with couple addictions, incapable of violence and 67 years old. At least capturing raiders lets you choose non-awful people, those quests just stick you with absolutely random pawn. Thats If you're able to beat 6 sleeping mechs with 2 people... Please don't? Like seriously?
- Outlander towns always sell plasteel and uranium.
> Cool, change. That alone makes traveling to faction bases viable lategame.
- Rebalanced what long range mineral scanner finds. More variety, more uranium, plasteel is possible.
> No steel? I don't get it... You really want to keep us constantly steel starved... Otherwise very nice change. I will definitely be visiting those mining sites lategame.
- The game now informs you why a pawn got food poisoning.
> Thats nice. If you screwed up - it tells you where exactly.
Also i am really glad that finally not every single quest forces you to go save someone's dad and mommy anymore, I was getting tired of constant awful moodlets, since i never want to go out early game.
I'm not sure whether this was changed, or whether it is simply more visible in NB runs, but I think infections are actually too consistent. Early game is almost all fail and past a certain point you almost never fail again.
Shouldn't shotguns and pistols be able to fire in melee? Especially now that shotguns got a AP nerf. I thought really close range was shotguns purpose, and some pistols. I do love the change over all to make melee more of a thing though!!
But if a raider does manage to close the gap, isn't your pawn kinda Fkd?
I'm not sure if the goal is to never let it close on you with a ranged wep, but it would be nice to be able to carry a small melee wep to switch to in those cases. Or let pistol whipping do a bit more damage than a punch.
Quote from: Scavenger on June 29, 2018, 05:10:37 AM
Shouldn't shotguns and pistols be able to fire in melee? Especially now that shotguns got a AP nerf. I thought really close range was shotguns purpose, and some pistols. I do love the change over all to make melee more of a thing though!!
Exactly because of how dangerous melee is, melee should restrict the use of any ranged weapons. Otherwise if you could just shoot point blank, melee would have no purpose at all. Nearly any ranged weapon has more DPS, unless its specialized advanced weapon like a longsword or a gladius. And even against a gladius if you could shoot attacker in the face with a shottie, i wonder who'd win.
Though predators hunting your colonists now pretty much will always succeed in eating them, since the only way to counter a predator was to feed it with lead point blank.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 28, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
You are underestimating pyromaniacs. Fires are probably the most destructive force in this game. And pyromaniacs tend to break in worst possible scenarious. Like when you're being invaded by a huge crowd of tribals, or some mechanoids drop right on your head. And right in that glorious moment a pyro decides, that its a good thing to set fire to your whole medicine supply. Its good if you can quickly dispatch a team to beat those fires out. Now imagine that mechanoids landed in the middle of your base and you can't stick a single nose out of cover, watchin how merry flames eat your valuables behind laughing mechanoids... Thank god, i am a calm person. I only flayed that bastard and made a chair out of him.
Pyro is the singular make-or-break trait for me, outside of RP colonies, simply because of the resources and risk involved. I don't care how skilled or useful they are because when they have their mental break(depending on their location) I have to dedicate at least one person to babysit them and that means suddenly I am down two pawns for an indeterminate amount of time with absolutely no counterplay to prevent this situation aside from being selective about who we let in.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the random breaks involved in pyro, gourmand, chemical interest/fascination, and anything I missed. I can understand why they aren't gated like normal mental breaks, but mood management should be rewarded even with these traits. Anyway, I'm starting to toe the line of a suggestion topic, so I'm going to stop while I'm ahead.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 04:39:04 AM
It's now impossible to shoot in melee.
Why? Shotguns and pistols should always be usable in melee.
My proposal: give short-range weapons bonuses to hit at melee range, and long-range weapons penalties to hit.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 29, 2018, 05:18:40 AM
Quote from: Scavenger on June 29, 2018, 05:10:37 AM
Shouldn't shotguns and pistols be able to fire in melee? Especially now that shotguns got a AP nerf. I thought really close range was shotguns purpose, and some pistols. I do love the change over all to make melee more of a thing though!!
Exactly because of how dangerous melee is, melee should restrict the use of any ranged weapons. Otherwise if you could just shoot point blank, melee would have no purpose at all. Nearly any ranged weapon has more DPS, unless its specialized advanced weapon like a longsword or a gladius. And even against a gladius if you could shoot attacker in the face with a shottie, i wonder who'd win.
Though predators hunting your colonists now pretty much will always succeed in eating them, since the only way to counter a predator was to feed it with lead point blank.
I thought using a ranged weapon in melee heavily reduced accuracy, therefor allowing it to be used as defense, but giving melee far more power. Shotguns had power because they were great in melee and close range. Now, they are out ranged by other guns, useless in melee range, AND almost no AP. Giving them a far smaller niche. Could just be my imagination:P They feel a lot weaker right now.
Quote from: Ambaire on June 29, 2018, 05:33:50 AM
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 04:39:04 AM
It's now impossible to shoot in melee.
Why? Shotguns and pistols should always be usable in melee.
My proposal: give short-range weapons bonuses to hit at melee range, and long-range weapons penalties to hit.
I would say all long range weapons are unusable in melee, ARs, Rifles, ect, while shotguns and pistols ARE usable in melee, but with reduced accuracy. Further cementing shotguns IRL niche of dealing with short range. Maybe even reduce the range on shotguns a bit more? Or reduce their accuracy at the longer range?
You would need to make melee weapons still outperform shotguns in melee range i think... so melee weapons aren't useless, but let them have the chance to defend with a accuracy penalty at melee range with a shotty instead of being useless.
Guys, who would ever choose to go in full-melee, when you know, that you ll get face full of bullets point-blank? The only unique and useful advantage of melee combat in RW always was that you can disable people armed with dangerous ranged weaponry by ambushing them into melee. So this is how it should remain.
Oooh, and maybe even give pistols MORE of a accuracy penalty in close range than shotguns, so they are more medium/close, while shotguns are close/melee. Giving shotguns the tactic of combating long range pawns much like a melee would, try to close in on melee range where they are unable to retaliate effectively, but you can still attack back. Or lying in ambush waiting for them to get too close, like a melee would.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 29, 2018, 05:42:24 AM
Guys, who would ever choose to go in full-melee, when you know, that you ll get face full of bullets point-blank? The only unique and useful advantage of melee combat in RW always was that you can disable people armed with dangerous ranged weaponry by ambushing them into melee. So this is how it should remain.
I do agree... Melee weapons should be unmatched in the only range they are capable of functioning. Which is why i suggested accuracy penalty. A melee pawn should still win out like 70%+ of the time vs a shotgun imo, if they are able to close without taking enough damage to cripple them. Let a shotgun try to focus on either closing in on long range like a mele, or attempt more of a kiting style fight with a melee character. If you can hit them enough to cripple by the time melee closes, maybe you have the chance to beat them toe to toe. Otherwise, Kite them. Often times a solid melee hit will slow your move speed, making it hard to kite. Striking a delicate balance.
Its hard to give both shotguns and melee weapons their own unique identity without shotguns always being the go-to because they also have some range.
Small intermittent feedback:
Playing on Temperate Forest, Cassandra Hard, Large Hills, River.
First of all: It's beautiful. Large hills with a river just makes for the most amazing landscape ever, just watching my colony makes me happy, because it feels like in a mountain forest. My previous game on a flat map was much less nice and my save file got too corrupted so I had to start over.
It's 1st of Fall and I have only 4 colonists. Usually I have more by now, however colony seems much more manageable with fewer colonists, mostly because some tasks, particularly crafting apparel take less time. I really enjoy playing with 4-6 colonists and I'm happy the colony doesn't immediately shoot up to like 8 or so, in B18 it certainly felt that way. On the same page I don't like how I spend a huge amount of time in speed 3 (or even 4).
My game keeps crashing in 64bit mode during loading a savegame, probably due to mods - I have pretty much 75% of all 1.0 mods installed, I just can't live without certain ones. In 32bit there doesn't seem to be a problem.
long range scanner VS Deep drill
[research]
long range scanner : 700
Deep drill : Multi-analyzer + deep drilling + ground penetration Scanner : 7700
[Wait time or Find time]
long range scanner : 18 day
Deep drill : 3~5 Day
[Amount of mining]
long range scanner : I did a direct mining test with debug. At each point, the following minerals were obtained.
4200 silver , 768 ura , 420gold , 4477 silver , 455 pla
Deep drill : one point 35 x 4 = 120~140
If you find more than 6 squares based on uranium, equally mined.
[Risk]
long :
2.1 Day x2 , 1 Day x2 , 2 Day x2 , 1.6 Day x2 , 1 Day x2
During the above travel time, you must bring out the colonists. There are risks to food and transport animals and dwellings during the mining hours and risks to disease.
The probability that an enemy will appear in a mining area (1~2 sycther)
Because of the size of the caravan, you should be prepared to attack the radar.
Deep :
drill now comes with bugs.
[Can Long Range Compete With Deep Drills?]
High gain of deep drill. Long range has a waiting time of 18 days, so research figures can be ignored.
If it is a problem of consuming resources, it is a good idea to make a village of mining town.
Long range can not be used for Nomadic play.
In fact, long-range events are not the only problem. It is better not to do other World Map events that do not have unique rewards.
For example, a refugee rescue event. We can not see his stats and it is difficult to predict what the risks are. This is because there is no defense facility at all.
I think they should change more attractive and visible.
http://www.rimworldcomics.com/post/154136199665
This comic shows why it should be predictable.
So, really not digging faction the new faction relationships system. It seems completely bizarre to me that the only reliable way to get a good relationship with someone is to constantly have lots of money, and either give it or spend it. For sub-zero relationship, I can gain relationship quickly simply by not being a monster when they attack me, and relying upon pure RNG for how many pawns aren't downed; but as soon as they're no longer attacking me, gaining faction is crazy difficult, especially as I tend to operate on a low margin of cash flow. Most of my deals with visitors or traders, or when I go to trade with others, are below 500-1000 silver. So that's 2 points max, if I'm understanding the system right.
Brief aside: How does this work, exactly? Is the number cumulative? If I trade 499-worth, then later trade 1, do I get the relationship gain, or is it only on a per-transaction basis? Is it the worth of the goods going both ways? So if I trade 500-worth of goods, but also buy 500-worth, is that one, or two? What about if I trade the goods, Accept, then trade again to buy goods?
Either way, it just seems not even a little bit worth while to do a trade, gain 6 points, then by the time I get back to my base, it drops by 10 to -4. The relationship decay mechanic is... kind of the worst, on top of money being the primary means of gaining relationship. I could see it dropping by 10 points after a set period of time of no interaction, but dropping on what appears to be a schedule has literally made me not want to bother trying at all; Might as well have everyone be hostile, so I have my pick of incoming pawns, and I can reliably keep myself at neutral relationships just by sending them home intact.
Overall enjoying 1.0, but this is the change that is hands-down not even a little bit fun for me.
Also really hesitant about the no-ranged-in-melee thing. It's non-sensical from a fiction standpoint, and really feels overbalanced. Melee *should* be really situational, as it is in real life; There's a reason why we don't use swords and pikes anymore as part of real warfare. I'm not arguing for nerfing it entirely because once you get into close enough range, the melee weapon is going to be very, very strong against the ranged weapon, but having the ranged weapon be completely useless is... just not a good change. I've argued before for a sort of mechanic where melee attacks would interrupt ranged attacks, which would advantage melee considerably, disadvantage longer ranged weapons the most, but would give shorter ranged weapons (like the much-mentioned shotguns and pistols) a good overall utility in close range, given how badly outclassed they are in most ranged conflicts.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 04:39:04 AM
It's now impossible to shoot in melee.
It's an interesting change, but ultimately only serves to punish those who can't/don't micromanage effectively. Once a melee character gets into range there are only a few ways to effectively get back into shooting range. A couple changes that might ease this would be to remove the movement "stagger" on misses(maybe even dodges too) and/or separate long barrel and short barrel weapons with short barrel having no dead zone. Either way, I think the change could be entirely bypassed by a rebalance of touch range accuracy (assuming you have the time at this stage anyway).
Oh yeah, and I would also greatly prefer having the old difficulty lingo back! The standard medium and hard are no fun.
Don't go comparing the game to real life warfare. Only good use of melee is to block shooters from shooting. If you go making parralels between life and game, you ll have way too many things to complain about, that make no sense of whatsoever. You try to shoot in melee - you get your hand chopped off, so instead you re forced to use fists, pistol handles, stocks and the like. Allowing shots in melee just pretty much disables said melee from the balance standpoint.
Because why would anyone ever use a gladius or a knife, when you can use a shotgun, which rapes people at mid-to-close range and will also be able to rape people at touch range?
I can't craft Plate Armor, pawn takes all resource materials to the bench but nothing happens.
Well, just started raw vanilla. Impossible nearly, with the naked start. Got a raid with Randy in 3 days, and seems the raid mechanics improved a lot and got flanked in.
Got to wait for most mods being optimized for 1.0 before jumping in. My suggestion to many people as well.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 29, 2018, 06:53:13 AM
Don't go comparing the game to real life warfare. Only good use of melee is to block shooters from shooting. If you go making parralels between life and game, you ll have way too many things to complain about, that make no sense of whatsoever. You try to shoot in melee - you get your hand chopped off, so instead you re forced to use fists, pistol handles, stocks and the like. Allowing shots in melee just pretty much disables said melee from the balance standpoint.
Because why would anyone ever use a gladius or a knife, when you can use a shotgun, which rapes people at mid-to-close range and will also be able to rape people at touch range?
Again, not with accuracy penalties, or touch range accuracy as wildfire calls it. That would help draw things to a much better balance in melee.
And I think getting your hand chopped off is quite a exaggeration.. This game does a great job of making many things realistic, realism doesn't always balance well with gameplay, but often enough that you can make it work. And if you try using a knife against a pistol, you're going to have a bad time haha. Even if you are in such close range you are actually grappling your opponent, you can wield a pistol relatively effectively. All you have to do is pointed at them, while a knife generally requires a swing of the arm.
There is a huge difference between allowing shots in melee, and only having 20% accuracy in melee.
Yep. IRL you just get lead for breakfast attacking someone wielding a pistol with a knife. And thats boring as hell. The point of melee in RW was always that you could shut up someone with a pistol or a rifle when you ambush them, minimizing incoming damage to some bruises, instead of several horrible holes in your pawn's body. If the enemy will still be able to pump you full of holes point-blank even with your accuracy penalty - I and every other sane person will prefer to stay in cover, to maximise chances of avoiding damage at all. Melee would be effective only for AI which doesn't care for its pawns, while for player melee would be a risky waste of pawns. I really don't want that to be in the game.
And hey... usually in RW shots have like 1-5% to hit with a firearm (cover, range, etc). Now imagine having 20% hitchance. Compared to having to use fists\stocks 20% chance to land a shotgun shot into someone is huge change, making melee completely useless compared to it disabling your ranged weapon completely. It won't be balanced out fine and dandy even by a much more severe aim penalty.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on June 29, 2018, 06:34:08 AM
So, really not digging faction the new faction relationships system.
Playing on Cass/hard/desert(30/60)/river/transhumanists only, day 345 and I have to say - You and I are having a very different faction relations experience.
I'm allied with both the outlander factions and there's a 0% chance of me ever losing that despite the fact I'm constantly calling them for caravan requests. I'm neutral with both tribes mostly because their caravans are slightly worse and the only settlements of theirs nearby are 2-3x farther away than the outlander towns.
I gave both outlander factions a chunky gift of silver as soon as I had it spare knowing that I'd be able to use their caravans to create wealth as well as steel/plasteel/neurotomine. Selling excess precious metals generated by the LRMS as well as outpost missions. Obviously being able to constantly sell excess trade goods is really useful.
Quote
Also really hesitant about the no-ranged-in-melee thing. It's non-sensical from a fiction standpoint, and really feels overbalanced. Melee *should* be really situational, as it is in real life; There's a reason why we don't use swords and pikes anymore as part of real warfare.
I really dislike the "Realism to justify mechanical changes" argument because it's so often completely irrelevant but just to humor it for a moment - it's worth noting that AFAIK most military forces in the world still arm their soldiers with knives. And not just because they're useful tools.
Quote
I've argued before for a sort of mechanic where melee attacks would interrupt ranged attacks, which would advantage melee considerably, disadvantage longer ranged weapons the most, but would give shorter ranged weapons (like the much-mentioned shotguns and pistols) a good overall utility in close range, given how badly outclassed they are in most ranged conflicts.
This more or less existed for a while and the result was that guns kicked the shit out of melee weapons in melee almost 100% of the time. Being able to fire a 18 damage shotgun at the same rate someone could swing a 10-18 damage mace in melee just didn't work out in favour of the mace most of the time.
Moreover that system can be wildly inconsistent based on factors like when during the windup of a gunshot the melee attack lands and how that is handled mechanically. If the shot is reset then a sufficiently high attack rate precludes ever being able to fire even a quick firing gun. Shivs literally did this for a while. If the shot is paused then can the player cancel that order or is the pawn effectively stunned? Ect ect.
Additionally the player and the AI didn't interact with that system even remotely similarly. Players would
always choose to manually fire in melee combat and the AI almost never opted to.
Also when a
player is using melee weapons it's incredibly frustrating to see an AI pawn get a shot off in melee for
any reason. I've run a melee-only colony in 1.0 and god damn there's nothing worse than seeing a chain shotgun on the horizon knowing that no matter what you do that bastard is probably going to fire. In melee range, bypassing the personal shields you laboriously crafted and traded for.
I really like the deadzone change. Mechanically it's completely consistent. You always know what's going to happen. You can deal with it various ways. It's taken literally all the frustration and guesswork out of the melee/ranged interaction.
It's also made shield-bearing-melee-sapper-raids fairly terrifying but.. that's a nice change of pace from completely trivial
Regarding melee, bear in mind that the ranged weapons are also melee weapons. They'll hit people with gun butts, poke them with barrels, etc. Stats about this are even output on the stats card.
If we need to balance ranged weapons in melee, we'll be balancing the melee verbs of those weapons.
Enemies have always been prevented from shooting while in melee. We removed that for a few days and people were quite disturbed when their melee dude got shot in the face by a sniper he was beating on. So now it's symmetrical, not a trap for noobs (e.g. you don't need to use an unintuitive "shoot him in melee" direct r-click command - this also reduces micromanagement), and a lot easier to balance since the melee and ranged numbers are totally separate for each weapon.
I suspect there may be some balance to do going forward. That said, even with low DPS there are great uses for melee fighters. E.g. have one engage the enemy in melee and let a friend shoot him in the side of the head with a shotgun. Combined arms (just try not to miss too badly).
A sword will lose against a gun at range; a gun will lose against a sword in melee. I think it makes so much sense I'd almost call it an invariant; we'll balance the rest of the system around that.
Quote from: Boboid on June 29, 2018, 07:15:56 AM
I really like the deadzone change. Mechanically it's completely consistent. You always know what's going to happen. You can deal with it various ways. It's taken literally all the frustration and guesswork out of the melee/ranged interaction.
It's also made shield-bearing-melee-sapper-raids fairly terrifying but.. that's a nice change of pace from completely trivial
I can't say those shielded melee waves were ever trivial, but I sure agree with the rest of your post. Its a signature advantage of melee in RW - to force stop use of ranged weapons. In early game thats often your only chance to beat a force otherwise vastly outmatching your own in firepower.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 07:22:03 AM
A sword will lose against a gun at range; a gun will lose against a sword in melee. I think it makes so much sense I'd almost call it an invariant; we'll balance the rest of the system around that.
Three cheers for Tynan.
Quote from: Scavenger on June 29, 2018, 06:52:28 AM
Oh yeah, and I would also greatly prefer having the old difficulty lingo back! The standard medium and hard are no fun.
I second that, it was far more fitting. The current adjectives are just too general and will tell, especially a new player, not much.
"Some challenge" or "Rough" are incredibly clear in what difficulty level they mean, especially since Rimworld does a rather good job of delivering the difficulty that you expect. When I started out in A15 I immediately picked the right difficulty for me and had lots of fun.
Quote from: Boboid on June 29, 2018, 07:15:56 AM
Quote from: DariusWolfe on June 29, 2018, 06:34:08 AM
So, really not digging faction the new faction relationships system.
Playing on Cass/hard/desert(30/60)/river/transhumanists only, day 345 and I have to say - You and I are having a very different faction relations experience.
You quote one line of my post, and ignore all of the other text as to why, and then you go on to say that you're having no problems because you're spending tons of money. Spending money as the
primary way to keep your faction relations up is borked, and that was the majority point I was making.
As a matter of fact, the rest of your post ALSO disagreed with me, then completely disregarded every point I was making. Regardless, Tynan has spoken on ranged-in-melee, so it's not really worth arguing about. I'll just be going back to Simple Sidearms as soon as it's updated for 1.0.
I disregarded most of what you said because it amounted to "I'm not spending money on this system that can be used to generate money". What more is there to say?
I figured I'd give you an example of how the system could be interacted with in an enjoyable and profitable way.
Even at low wealth it's trivial to find something that has sufficient value to raise relations with any given faction that sends a caravan your way. 1000 rice is +22 relations with an 8 social skill colonist. Ideal? No. Doable? Yes.
Literally any excess a colony generates via any means can be used to increase relations significantly. Once you're allied with a faction it's more or less self perpetuating because the increased access to trade caravans allows for consistent top-ups and efficient transactions. each caravan costing ~300 silver while having ~1000 on hand itself.
Edit: Additionally quests offered by factions reward reputation with that faction.
Depending on the difficulty you're playing on these can range from trivial to risky but given that they're value generating machines in of themselves the additional reputation is a nice cherry on top.
i dunno Tynan, u should watch johnwick 1 and 2, some people are pretty proficient with guns, even at close range
i think a person with sufficiently high shooting shouldn't even be approached, should be labeled babayega and you should just leave his dog alone
I think the biggest issue that players may face, especially new ones, is sending out their colonists at the edge of the map only to be attacked by an angry warg or something. The ability to shoot point range does make things a bit easier, but I think not by much. The only time I FORCE my pawns to shoot at melee range is when I get caught off guard. Obviously this is my fault for not taking out all the predators in the area but depending whether I have a bad day or not, I may be either very angry or very nonchalant about the whole thing.
It DOES make melee more valuable, and melee is something most new players don't try to bother with. The addition of plate armor and their ability to disrupt shooting makes them even more valuable early game.
This is one thing i can't argue with. Predator ninjas are just horrible. You get distracted for 1 second - you get someone being mauled and you can't do a thing about it. Usually most pawns can deal with a wolf and even a bear at times by shooting point-blank. But i highly doubt mister T will leave ability to shoot in melee for player while disabling it for AI. And if the choice is between everyone shooting in melee or noone - my vote is for latter. Besides... There is brilliant Simple SideArms mod if you're not afraid of delving into deep and addicting abyss of mods for RW.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 07:22:03 AM
Regarding melee, bear in mind that the ranged weapons are also melee weapons. They'll hit people with gun butts, poke them with barrels, etc. Stats about this are even output on the stats card.
If we need to balance ranged weapons in melee, we'll be balancing the melee verbs of those weapons.
Enemies have always been prevented from shooting while in melee. We removed that for a few days and people were quite disturbed when their melee dude got shot in the face by a sniper he was beating on. So now it's symmetrical, not a trap for noobs (e.g. you don't need to use an unintuitive "shoot him in melee" direct r-click command - this also reduces micromanagement), and a lot easier to balance since the melee and ranged numbers are totally separate for each weapon.
I suspect there may be some balance to do going forward. That said, even with low DPS there are great uses for melee fighters. E.g. have one engage the enemy in melee and let a friend shoot him in the side of the head with a shotgun. Combined arms (just try not to miss too badly).
A sword will lose against a gun at range; a gun will lose against a sword in melee. I think it makes so much sense I'd almost call it an invariant; we'll balance the rest of the system around that.
The more I think/play with it the more I like it. However, I do hope you implement a way to make it easier to get shooters back to shooting range once engaged since a gun should lose to a sword in melee, but I think I'm starting to repeat myself so I better head to bed.
In regards to shooters bein able to retreat from melee range - i agree. Currently any kind of melee attack even unsuccessful slows your pawns to a crawl. I like the suggestion from someone earlier about pawns not being staggered\slowed if the blow was a miss, dodge or blocked by armor. That would in theory allow you to break away from melee range if enemy's skill isn't high enough to consistently hit the target.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 29, 2018, 10:00:06 AM
In regards to shooters bein able to retreat from melee range - i agree. Currently any kind of melee attack even unsuccessful slows your pawns to a crawl. I like the suggestion from someone earlier about pawns not being staggered\slowed if the blow was a miss, dodge or blocked by armor. That would in theory allow you to break away from melee range if enemy's skill isn't high enough to consistently hit the target.
On the flipside I kind of like that any blow you deal to enemies slows them, so I can't really agree with this. However I would like if enemy ranged pawns tried running away instead of engaging in melee, it might actually make melee better because they aren't getting hit back and if at all might only get shot at from other enemies while chasing (hint: shield belt).
Well thats the point - any blow you actually deal to an enemy should slow and stagger him, but theres really no sense in why missed, blocked and dodged blows still slow enemies... Without that change theres absolutely no point in shooters trying to get away - with the attack speed of most melee weapons, they ll just get beaten down without any retaliation, being constantly slowed by even misses.
Now you gotta have melee weapon dropped near shooters.
If you can just kite away from melee guys, turning and shooting them as you run, the game is broken.
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on June 29, 2018, 10:22:25 AM
Now you gotta have melee weapon dropped near shooters.
Dare I say, weapon racks? Or a mixed team of melee fighters and shooters? Amaze.
Quick feedback
-I can't rescue more people (events,hostiles) even while I have a doctor and a medical bed - It only shows capture/strip
-Mental Breaks mixed with moods are devastating my colony, that and some "badass " malaria I had to useluciferium to gave my pawns a fighting chance
-Mini turrets were absorbing charged shoots or not taking dmg by it- even when it had the sound/and fx that was hit
-Snipers are way less accurate than an assault rifle use be the same pawn/ same skill
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 12:46:05 AM
Quote from: klun on June 29, 2018, 12:21:53 AM
So its useful to consider that I couldnt care less about your argument because I wasnt even talking to you to begin with
This is statement carried no information, is unkind and unnecessary and not useful; it's a rule violation. Let's not do this please.
I still dont see how Im the one with unkind/unnecessary post . I wasnt the one trying flame someone and taking my opinion out of context trying to look like a "smartass".
Anyway your house your rules - Im gonna stick to the mod section only
Im sure you are going to deliver something great in the end- Have a nice day.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 10:24:31 AM
Dare I say, weapon racks? Or a mixed team of melee fighters and shooters? Amaze.
That looks like new kind of gameplay by us, it's fine. But it looks awkward that you have to have melee weapon lying close when your shooters defend your colony, but when they're caravanning - they can hold them in inventory and change weapons whenever they want.
A melee-range shooting was really good. Things like chain shotgun or SMG actually served their purpose as close-to-mid range combat weapons.
What's the point of pistols revolvers SMGs and shotguns now? Bows are dirt-cheap and greatly outperform them. Chain shotguns and SMGs are especially bad due to a low range - you can only hope to shoot once before it becomes a club.
This is especially awful with predators, since you usually only know that you are hunted after pawn takes several hits. Monitoring wildlife tab for predators 24/7 and manually controlling hit squads to deal with them is not exactly fun.
I guess embrasures and sidearms mods won't be retired.
It looks like tamed predators are hunting much more now. The problem is, since they are part of your faction, animals they attack still can go manhunter.
The warm-up of bows is excruciatingly long compared to pistols (which are still top tier weapons for early-mid), I can't see credibly why bows are considered strictly better.
Chain shotgun was already a meme with anemic range (due to intercept chance making a large contribution to fight damage output, effective accuracy in practical combat situation is highly tied to range), now falls into the dumpster even harder.
Quote from: Oblitus on June 29, 2018, 10:30:41 AM
A melee-range shooting was really good. Things like chain shotgun or SMG actually served their purpose as close-to-mid range combat weapons.
What's the point of pistols revolvers SMGs and shotguns now? Bows are dirt-cheap and greatly outperform them. Chain shotguns and SMGs are especially bad due to a low range - you can only hope to shoot once before it becomes a club.
But... but... the machine pistol is really really amazeballs. DPS-wise, considering tech, crafting cost and raiders dropping it.
Also why were the heavy SMG and machine pistol graphics swapped?
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 04:39:04 AM
New build going up.
Here's the raw changelog:
----
Increase raider death rate a bit now that rescue quests are more of a thing.
Made an alert when a pawn is assigned to recreation or in need of recreation is bored of all recreation types, with an explanation of what to do about it.
The game now informs you why a pawn got food poisoning.
Fix: Food poison chance from room doesn't apply if roomless. Chanced food poison chance from room cleanliness from a factor to an offset.
Slight rebalance on centipede; he's a bit faster now.
Increased raider death? Nooo! I often end up with a lot of dead bodies during raids, normally the ones I want to recruit. Oh well, I guess I just have to accept more random refugees.
I don't remember writing a response to this, but I thought about it so here it is. More details on recreation and alerts are nice adds, very helpful to newer players. Current expectations, how much tolerance falls each day and the recommended amount of recreation types is great.
Food poisoning details is also another nice add. Did you by chance change the effects of food poisoning? I was playing on a new save yesterday on version 1.0.1948 and I had a pawn get food poisoning, but she didn't become incapacitated. Just threw up all over the place while she was moving around. Then, the same pawn got food poisoning some days later but this time she was incapacitated and then was rescued and brought to her bed.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 10:24:31 AM
If you can just kite away from melee guys, turning and shooting them as you run, the game is broken.
SHOOT THE LEG!
Joke aside one tactic I've shamefully done is to put several guys on one side and another that goes near the melee guy, as the melee guy chooses him as the target I can kite away while the others shoot.
I don't see how this could be fixed or if needs to be fixed. When it's one guy it should really be difficult to get to one of them as they keep running and shooting. Maybe try to turn off the information that says who the enemy is targeting could help a little.
But if it is a group of melee guys they probably shouldn't all target the same guy, the best tactic (to disrupt the player) would be to each one target a different pawn so one wouldn't be able to cover for the others since they are all in danger.
But if you got a pawn with jogger then kiting becomes so easy..
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 29, 2018, 10:47:23 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on June 29, 2018, 10:30:41 AM
A melee-range shooting was really good. Things like chain shotgun or SMG actually served their purpose as close-to-mid range combat weapons.
What's the point of pistols revolvers SMGs and shotguns now? Bows are dirt-cheap and greatly outperform them. Chain shotguns and SMGs are especially bad due to a low range - you can only hope to shoot once before it becomes a club.
But... but... the machine pistol is really really amazeballs. DPS-wise, considering tech, crafting cost and raiders dropping it.
Well, when you can't choose - then yes, they are better than wooden clubs. But to use machine pistol really efficiently you need to meet all this conditions:
- have a melee pawn to cover your shooter
- force enemy to come into their really poor range
- have no option to use long-ranged weapons
All those are met only in two real scenarios: tunnel skirmish with insectoids and city warfare when enemies are dropped right on your heads. Otherwise, I'd rather use greatbows or bolt-actions early and assault/sniper rifles later. Also, pistols have no stopping power and you have to stuff your target with a ton of lead before it is dealt with.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 10:24:31 AM
If you can just kite away from melee guys, turning and shooting them as you run, the game is broken.
If you can just walk to a guy with automatic firearm and kill him with club the game is even more broken.
I think 'Allies coming to help' should have tweaked values regarding tribals.
Having 6 pawns coming to help with 20+ fennec foxes is bad, since they died almost instantly.
Also it's kinda bummer that You cannot call tribal for help because they dont have droppod technology - i would just expect them to come after day/two - so handling sieges/poison|psychic ships would be easier
Also 'unknown' case of food poisoning has funny font
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Quote from: Scavenger on June 29, 2018, 05:10:37 AM
Shouldn't shotguns and pistols be able to fire in melee? Especially now that shotguns got a AP nerf. I thought really close range was shotguns purpose, and some pistols. I do love the change over all to make melee more of a thing though!!
But if a raider does manage to close the gap, isn't your pawn kinda Fkd?
I'm not sure if the goal is to never let it close on you with a ranged wep, but it would be nice to be able to carry a small melee wep to switch to in those cases. Or let pistol whipping do a bit more damage than a punch.
For melee to have a place in Rimworld, it can't be 100% realistic. Rimworld being a game can't be 100% realistic anyway.
The problem with shotguns, but more importantly things like machine pistol/heavy SMG/Charge rifle firing in melee is that it made melee redundant/non option excepting anything but blunt vs armor, and questionable even then.
Good quality plasteel longsword? Nah man, just point blank them with heavy SMG...and that after you've already shot them at range.
The point of pistols and revolvers is their mobility. Their aim time is ridiculously fast, and the autopistol has a very low cooldown time also. There are a large number of weapons against which you can hit cover, shoot the auto pistol, and move out of LoS before the other gun can shoot back...without even needing to use a door.
I agree shotguns are in a kind-of weak place, due to the low armor pen. IRL shotguns are also not particularly good with armor penetration compared to rifles with ammunition designed for it, though the force from the larger slugs would probably knock armored people off their feet if the armor absorbed the blow rather than glanced it off. Their placement on the tech tree is as an early game weapon...maybe a small damage boost to compensate terrible armor pen, given they are indeed devastating w/o armor? Not sure.
QuoteThis is especially awful with predators, since you usually only know that you are hunted after pawn takes several hits. Monitoring wildlife tab for predators 24/7 and manually controlling hit squads to deal with them is not exactly fun.
This is a problem irrespective of any change made in 1.0, though wildlife tab makes it easier to manage it. Once hunt alert mod (strict QoL, simply relaying info available to clicking on the animal in question) is available for 1.0 it probably won't be too bad. I still think hunt alert should be vanilla, given that it is literally a more convenient display of information the game already provides.
QuoteDare I say, weapon racks? Or a mixed team of melee fighters and shooters? Amaze.
Still won't be needed. I'd put money on still being able to defend easily with 100% ranged weapons and decent base setup + micro, just as before. But at least your SMG doesn't transmute into a plasteel longsword and the AR into a ~poor steel speer immediately upon pressing the "b" key in melee range :D.
Though when doing caravans you actually can carry melee weapons and drop switch them.
QuoteWell, when you can't choose - then yes, they are better than wooden clubs. But to use machine pistol really efficiently you need to meet all this conditions:
- have a melee pawn to cover your shooter
- force enemy to come into their really poor range
- have no option to use long-ranged weapons
All those are met only in two real scenarios: tunnel skirmish with insectoids and city warfare when enemies are dropped right on your heads. Otherwise, I'd rather use greatbows or bolt-actions early and assault/sniper rifles later. Also, pistols have no stopping power and you have to stuff your target with a ton of lead before it is dealt with.
Machine pistol's warmup/cd cycle is barely too slow to move into cover, shoot, then leave before a bolt action can fire. It probably could if it wasn't a burst weapon. Auto pistol definitely can.
IMO people are really undervaluing the advantages conferred by the ridiculous warmup time and fast movement after shooting available to pistols. You can force fighting inside range easily with base setup, and render a lot of weapons incapable of fighting back. If enemy has bolt action I can hit them without taking return fire. If they have a revolver I actually have to be careful, since they can fire on me nearly instantly.
Bolt action/great bow type weapons definitely have use cases but to claim these clearly outclass pistols is silly. My base is littered with bolt action rifles from raiders that never hit me, though they've seen use by my pawns.
Can't build power conduits in smoothed stone corners. Is that a feature? I hate having to carve out extra sections of wall just to hide conduits in corners, then cover them back with constructed walls that don't match!
Quote
But... but... the machine pistol is really really amazeballs. DPS-wise, considering tech, crafting cost and raiders dropping it.
Also why were the heavy SMG and machine pistol graphics swapped?
Because one is a tec-9 (an actual machine pistol) and the other is an uzi (an smg). Honestly I'm of the opinion of heavy smg for a P90 and the machine pistol for an mp5k or something.
Quote
If you can just walk to a guy with automatic firearm and kill him with club the game is even more broken.
Except you have things like armor and deflection and dodge. Things that can save a shooter's butt when an angry space marine with a longsword comes after them. This is how Rimworld's melee has work for a long while. 1.0 really rewards a proficient melee fighter, especially if you armor them up and give them a good weapon.
It's not broken, it's how it was designed in the first place.
Let's try this another way.
I'm coming up on my second winter; just over a year in-game, with Phoebe Medium, modified crashlanders (no silver, no pet) I have 8 colonists, none of which are worthless, but they've got their niches. 4-5 of those are people I'm willing to call fighters, though it's a loose term; I feel I'm doing better on fighters than my usual campaigns, though. I'm just getting out of using scavenged weapons, and I'm starting to armor 'em up, but components are a hard gatekeeper for most of the better equipment. I've just researched turrets, but haven't built any just yet, same reason. I get a raid that I think would be called medium sized, about 8 dudes. Problem is, two of my fighters are out on a caravan, and won't return for another day or more. My best fighter is recovering from malaria, my second best fighter is still in late stages, and my third best (of those present; I sent my second and 4th best on the caravan) is also recovering; He's only a 'fighter' because I was running out of meat while all of my better shots are away or sick.
So the raid comes, and I have my better fighters grab helmets; Best I can do, aside from their standard uniform of duster, button-down shirt and pants. flak armor went with the caravan, and stick them behind the sandbags. I stick one of my shit fighters on the mortar I captured from a rescue mission earlier; Can't make my own shells, but I've got 6 incendiaries that I captured along with the mortar. (Did they always auto-fire? It's been a minute, but I thought they used to have to be manually targeted before they fired) and the first shot's actually not bad; manage to actually injure one guy. The other 5 shots end up being hilariously useless, and more likely to be a risk to me than the enemy. The potential miss-range is kinda crazy, but if Shooting skill matters (I think it does, right?) then I can't say that it's unfair.
But anyway, the raid actually attacks by the second shot. They all stop outside of my shit-fighter's range (he's got a masterwork pila; I watched him one-shot an alpaca during hunting, but I don't think he actually hit anything during the fight) and start laying down the hurt. Two melee guys charge through my fire and get right up on me, but the one melee guy I've got is... indisposed, because he's on fire. The raiders also have an incendiary launcher, and it seems to have pinpoint accuracy. How many shots are those supposed to have? Because I feel like they shot it at least 4-5 times. My sniper's back there doing some damage (well, he's shooting; I'm too busy trying to deal with the melee guys up in my face and the fire to tell if he's actually landing any shots) but the guy with the assault rifle and the pila are apparently useless, and the melee's just doin' his thing, badly. I try to get my constructor/cook into the fight, but somehow he no longer has his knife? At least he's able to put out some fires. They downed my doc, still suffering from malaria, and then manage to kill the pila-wielder. I just noped out of the fight at that point; They're barely bleeding and half of my fighting force is gone, so I don't see much chance of surviving this one.
Well. Play a bit last builds.
New armor system looks pretty nice. Almost third winter on my cassandra/hard and pawns is pretty healthy in terms of injuries.
Caravanings also looks good. Decent item rewards, same crappy rescueable pawns as before. But noticed issue with foraged food consumption - started last caravan with like 1k pemmican and 50 packaged meals, visited some POI and now i have 10 days of foraged berries, eaten pemmican and halved packaged meals. -_-
[attachment deleted due to age]
Tynan, are you going to do a feature video for the 1.0 release or anything else for the big event?
I am loving the update. I would say the vanilla game plays intuitively. The only thing I really miss is some of the features from the allow all mod, skylights, or my aliens. As a gardner, I always thought that building grow lights for indoor plants was weird, since most Gardners just use the free bright thing in the sky and build a greenhouse.
Playing a map with caves, and there is a Hive in one of the caves a good distance away from my base.
Got a Raid and instead of attacking and trying to break the door into my base the Raider ran up into the caves and got destroyed by the hive. The Raider had to pass right by my Base to get to the hive. After he passed the base, I even sent my colonists outside the base to see if he would come back to attack them.
Raiders combat log titled the encounter as "The Biarcampe of the Basin vs Insects".
Is this intended? I mean, to send raids against non player threats on the players map?
If so, thats cool but the description is just the standard raid description and should probably be changed.
QuoteThey downed my doc, still suffering from malaria, and then manage to kill the pila-wielder. I just noped out of the fight at that point; They're barely bleeding and half of my fighting force is gone, so I don't see much chance of surviving this one.
The question is, what would you change about this kind of raid? Based on your description, I can think of several approaches to reliably beat that raid, and at least a couple that will generally win without taking any damage on any of the defending pawns. The game gives you multiple tools to do this; there are more raid defense interactions closer to "9" than I believe Tynan suspected (limited-to-no damage holds on little resources/tech).
The game's design even allows 4 pawns capable of violence to straight up destroy raids of 10-15 before having access to electricity.
That doesn't mean the game is perfect necessarily, but what would you change based on your experience and why? For example, I asserted that ranged weapons firing at melee is inconsistent with AI raiders and made the utility of melee weapons very questionable...commonly dropped weapons fired at point blank outperformed nearly every melee weapon in the game, and presumably melee should be a comparatively viable option. So there was reason to tune the relative strength of melee vs range. Note that the ranged weapon is not "completely useless" in melee. Not only do you have statistical debuffs applied to anybody you've damaged, you do still have some melee damage output, and it's blunt at that (less gimped by armor).
What would you want to see done differently?
In terms of faction relations I haven't gotten comm console up to really test how the tradeoffs function in practice. I only have two non-hostile factions in my game, one outlander one tribe. I've done the occasional quest or trade, but haven't really pushed the alliance system to see how it works with silver trading resource renewal post investing into it. I like that uranium is finally not a pure RNG constrained resource a lot.
Geez another 6 pages since yesterday, try to keep it objective people.
So here comes another big list of notes I've taken, but first a little field report to give it some best context.
I really like the caravans feature, it feels really satisfying to plan out the whole shebang, prepare and execute it properly, and I've find my self really relying a whole lot on trade, usually having tons of excessive leather, there are also tons of used and new clothing lying around, so its basically my primary commodity. So I trade them in bulk for whatever resource I'm currently in need, a lot of times even needed food depending on season, neutroamine, components, anything that might be good.
So at that particular time, I was in desperately running out components, just when I was about to build a fabrication bench, so I took upon a trade quest opportunity of 20x incendiary shells for a power claw and something else, even though the reward wasn't exactly desirable (though I have a plan for that claw). So I did a big caravan, 5 colonist, 2 alpacas, packed in most of my spare stuff, lots of trade clothing, brought in excess beers and drugs as well, plenty of Pemmican (like +1k), hay for the animals, lots of medicine, smokeleaf for my addict medic, scheduled penoxy for their good health, rollup beds (which I'm not even sure counts for anything). Its was a big ~10 day trip, and so our journey begun.
So the first poop that happened was finding out about another wimp colonist that fell because of food poisoning like 1 hour after leaving. Goddamn she is a scout with pretty decent shooting that I didn't notice earlier (seriously from 80% to 15% pain tolerance is way too big a difference). The second poop was finding out penoxy is even more useless than I thought, failing to block the flu on three of my pawns in the caravan. but fair enough, there was like two "on the road" caravan encounters which served as a good trade. Still I literally had to trade everything I had for the resources I needed, it was alright because I really needed the resources and I got them. By the end, I had 12 days of food for what was expected to be a 9 day trip, with all the stops I've ended up coming home with nearly no food at all, so I felt rather unrewarded for the effort i went through to make proper preparations.
Shortly after, I had another rescue mission pop-up, I would leave it alone was it not being a sibling of one of my colonists, and I like to roleplay that they would never leave someone behind. Penoxy really proved itself useless now, the same wimp scout caught the plague and rendered immobile while nearly reaching the mission site (a couple other pawns also caught it). I mean, now this is really a bug because it hadn't block what it was supposed to prevent (flu and plague), while on caravan. Now on the rescue mission, there were a bunch of man hunting capivaras, with one downed soldier already, they mauled pretty bad my two melee, my rangers barely able to finish them off. Had to quickly setup camp, because pretty soon infection came raging on. It was so bad I had to quickly scrape by in hurry and send a transport pod with additional meds and food, and even then two of the colonist barely beat off the infection. I stayed there for a couple of days, cooking up any pemmican possible while the wounded recovered.
So finally I hope you can see my reasoning for what I'm about to suggest. Penoxy is still pretty useless where as it should work great as a general purpose disease prevention, for people going into dangerous situations and properly preparing, aka: going on caravan or facing dangerous battle like mechanoids or raiding a camp. That should counter most diseases, including food poison and infections. I'm thinking of it as being the equivalent of antibiotics in game, so a possible counter balance to that would be having it lose efficacy after a while, like drug tolerance. Another point is also making caravans less prone to disasters, and the previous would help it a lot. And god dear god, the wimp threshold is way too low.
Now some more objective notes:
- I've noticed Insect jelly has a raw food poison chance, why not have this stat show up on other food as well, and also indicative of its current condition.
- Since you get negotiation prices of around 15~25%, caravans still end up being rarely worth the effort.
- Caravans also seem to have a problem with eating long term food first (pemmican, packaged), usually leaving a ton of forage by the end of the trip
- None of the caravans trade offers (other caravan encounter or villages) offer proper travel food, its okay to prepare properly but they should still offer food for sale in case of eventualities.
- Caravans also seem to be forgetting their destination after loading a save (yesterday build).
- People on caravan don't return to their supposed proper beds, more often than not breaking couple beds and have people sleeping on the floor
- Caravan animals remain on the edge of the map when returning, making unpacking quite a long process, as opposed to have them at the packing spot
- Transport pods also need the love that caravan interface got. Plus copy/paste fuel limiter and simulating how much fuel it needs would be great QoL additions.
- Orbital trade offers should be a popup message like visitors in the map. I can't tell how many times I've missed them.
- The hauling changes are good, but I've seen them going overboard, like a pawn tidying up one way and soon after comes another to tidying up the reverse way. Tidy up orders should only take place when they can actually reduce stacks, like having 5 stacks when you could have 4.
- The same logic should apply when hauling to a stockpile with more "importance", if you can reduce a stack then you can haul. So that they don't keep constantly hauling small quantities. Though for a more long term solution, check the "stockpile 1 of a type" thread in the suggesiton forum
- Tree planting time is just atrocious, they spend nearly half a day planting a single tree, never mind that they already take a long time to reach maturity, the balance is off.
- Ruined eggs (caused by low temperature) should be treated as unfertilized eggs, stocked and used in recipes.
- I've noticed that pawns are now much more likely to haul when cutting field plants, pretty good. But they should also do that while harvesting animals (milk and wool).
- It would be nice to have drag and flick for the work tab, something like the schedule. Changes in priorities have been good to the point I feel I don't manual priorities anymore.
- I've also seen highly devoted hunters, to the point where he would rather hunt than receive treatment (bleeding). This priority seems off though.
- I would really like to see better hauling to places of construction though, or specially in crafting/cooking, where they need more than 1 ingredient, seeing them take multiple trips from/to the same place.
- I got some bonus dromedaries, though they seem to be ordered among the cows.
- Have ctrl/shift on the trade interface, for +10/100, would be nice UI streamlining.
- I've also noticed modifier keys (shift/ctrl/win) is taking away some context popups, making it hard to screenshot them. I don't think that was the behavior before.
- Here comes another vote for the previous difficulty flavored names. Plus I had also noticed how easier it got since you changed them, I went to check and apparently Rough translated into medium which apparently is for new players and easier now, though I would rather have medium being, well, the middle ground between easy and hard. Anyway I've switched to hard now and jump seem to be quite big from one to the other.
Regarding the weapons change, I like the fact that you can't shoot melee, like if they are struggling, it makes sense. But in which case some weapons should have better blunt, like rifle and shotgun being better than pistols, but worse than actual melee weapons. But still shotguns feel too weak, they can barely land a shot at their range and cooldown, and with the low AP they barely do damage if they do land one shot. And also, does this means we can go back to swarming centipedes again?
[attachment deleted due to age]
So been playing the same colony since unstable start for 1.0, almost 400 days in with 40 hours invented into.
>Building the ship
I was planning instead of just starting a new colony again cause i want to see how tribe run are now i wanted to end it with building a ship, (sorry in advance if this going to sound like a rant) and holy shit building a ship for 15 colonist (well 14 one die in the process) it was a pain in the butt to do it, the uranium(i got like 1k from deep drill lucky), steel and platsteel requirement was understandable but the advance component was a joke in a bad way. 5 per sleep pod (60 AC for 15 pawn), 36 for all the engine, the ship beam was fine since it just need 1 per beam and i use 3, reactor need 16, cluster need 12 and core need 8 bringing it to a grand total of 135 advance component and 90% of it was crafted.
Problem with AC is the requirement to build it is ok but it take time, alot of time as a pawn might get 1 or 2 done a day depend on how many time they take a break. When ever a trader do sell AC it cost alot but it understandable but they only carry 1 with them, JUST ONE which make the ship building process super long.
Another thing it take so much time that you might as well travel to the ship seeing how much resouces one need to even build a ship
>Waking UP the Ship
So once build the ship after like 1 year in game it was time to defend it, i remember testing it out in a17 or b18 not sure which one was which but it was hard but i was thinking since i build it, it might be tone down......boy i was wrong.
day 1: was normal just got a man hunter pack and deal with them with a lot wound (not the best at fighting them
day 2: hell break loose when i get not 1 not 2 but 3 raids in 1 day, won't be that bad if 2 didn't drop on me one after another and both was melee only (one human & one mechs) then the last raid was more mech but from multiple side and i just give up at that point cause i haven't even recover from the manhunter pack, the human raid RE injure my guy and the mech pour salt on the wound
>finally thoughts
-i feel like the ship AC requirement should be tone down a bit cause building anything else with AC just throw back building the ship
-tone down the amount of raid you get if you build the ship cause what just happen to me was super discouraging to even waste my time of effort to build something just to get slap in the face by cassy
-traveling to the ship is a better investment to do then building a ship as you just need food or cargo pods there
-make building a ship more worth it and less painful cause it would just make people not want to build a ship to "beat" the game, like make it less time to activate the ship
-better grace period between the raid so my pawn can have time recover a bit instead of going to battle half dead
>Final Final word
i don't want to come off complaining about the game END game requirement but it does put to question why build a ship when i can just continue the game or just make another one. Hopefully you would just see this as a feedback (sorry if this was hard to read not the best at writing)
I've been playing 1.0 and I really like most of the changes so far. I haven't seen many bugs in the more recent releases. I've been enjoying the NB scenario; I prefer starting with one person and building up from there. From a very small sample size, the meteorite strike seems a bit frequent.
However, I did prefer the old names for difficulty, and the name of Glitterworld Medicine. I understand this is to bring things in line with the tech levels, but I think it was more flavourful the old way. Even if it didn't necessarily come from a glitterworld, I can imagine this being a colloquial description.
I am not fond of the higher raider death rate either haha.
One, you already rarely get the one you want at the end of a fight, and even if ya do, he/she often has a complicated injury or 2 to deal with, on account of the hail of lead.
Two, It means even less usable gear after a fight from the D modifier! Also, my panthers and cougars greatly prefer live prey to scavenging, unlike me.
And Three, less surgical guinea pigs! My colonists would greatly appreciate if their new surgeon cut their teeth on a pesky raider than their loved ones!
I am also concerned about wild animals mauling pawns without shooting in melee.. I'm not sure how you could balance that, but a punch fight with a cougar doesn't often go my way without good armor haha. I have to be quite careful now, which is both fun, but also a little tiresome sometimes over time. I'm already on watch 24/7 because damn cobras keep trying to eat all my crap and baby animals haha. And they still succeed sometimes! The little ninjas.
question about testing: how critical is it to start a new colony after an update if one wants to bug-test effectively? I've had some messages pop up when loading a colony after an update and was wondering about the stability/usefulness in testing of those saves.
Tynan, I'm not sure if you read this. But if you do, can you rein in your tendencies to appeal a specific crowd that is tough, i'd say, impossible to appease? Remove this transhumanist/body purist nonsense, Prostophile/prostophobe was perfect as it was. Please hire someone to name everything in your game, you're awful at it.
I agree with all the people that say the name changes from 18B to 1.0 are not good for older players.
What was wrong with the old names for things? We all liked those. I don't think there is anyone who was upset with the old names for things.
Quote from: PleaseBro on June 29, 2018, 05:35:46 PM
I agree with all the people that say the name changes from 18B to 1.0 are not good for older players.
What was wrong with the old names for things? We all liked those. I don't think there is anyone who was upset with the old names for things.
The name goes from 0.18 to 1.0. Looks ok to me. The problem you refer to is more like people write 18B when it's actually named 0.18. Declaring a version to be version 1.0 is a common approach to declare something final, as in end of early release or pre-release state. I don't really see a problem with the version naming.
I am pretty sure this should not happen :P . Overhead mountain over a river.
Also i feel like the steel availability is a lot of hit and miss even with mods in 1.0. At times i will have 4-5 deposits visible on the map meanwhile other times i struggle to find more than 2 deposits. Steel starvation is quite the fun killer ;).
And with the restrictions on watermills maybe their power output could go back to their initial 1400 W? Feels fair now.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5qwv1brg90jlwm/20180630014447_1.jpg?dl=1)
Update on turret testing (randy extreme):
I'm actually finding a "non-killbox" turret strategy to actually be working once you get the components for it. Aside from that one (bugged?) never retreat sapper raid, things are working great.
Here's a pack of 24 wargs slamming into my base that would have normally overrun even a killbox, but the lessened power is allowing me to place turrets all around the base, and the wargs just could not withstand running the gauntlet.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Body purists feel that artificial replacements are impure or unethical, but if they have to have one of their organs replaced, they're totally fine with that. No negative thought for 'ugh, I'm only alive because someone was organ-harvested.'
Perhaps, rather than having a constant mood buff or debuff based on which parts have been added, they could have random thoughts about a particular part that they're happy or unhappy with? Body purists be like 'okay, I admit, it works better than my old leg, but I miss my good old flesh and blood.' Transhumanists be like 'It's strange to think that I used to be so limited, this bionic arm might not be as aesthetically pleasing but it works much better.'
Also, please, make hives visible over corpses. ;D
[attachment deleted due to age]
Well, lost my latest run, so here s several problems still present in the current build based on both my experience and other people comments.
Balance things:
- Raider death rate was already 66%. Increasing it was harmful for the game. Not everyone of us enjoys rescuing random pyromaniac refugees with go-juice addictions.
- Aforementioned refugee quests and also chased refugee events should honestly give the info about who we're saving and what we'll be dealing with. Otherwise no way in hell i am going out to save someone, only to get another crippled burden i'll have to banish. Pawn generation could also use a look, to stop generating mentally challenged grannies with couple scars thrown in for fun.
- Pawn traits - pyromaniac, chemical fascinated and gourmands trait based mental breaks should still depend on their mood, maybe to a less extent but still. Them breaking all the time with happy mood makes them useless and even worse - potentially harmful. Wimp trait is downright awful - you get two scars - he's a downed vegetable for life. This is crazy.
- Night owl trait should also remove the debuff from being in darkness. If you re used to sleeping the day in, you shouldn't complain about darkness.
- Unyielding sapper raids from tribes. Too much, too much. Especially if most are melee with latests melee restriction to shots. The concept of a suicidal raid in itself feels rather broken. At least in most cases you can count on raiders fleeing if they vastly outnumber you, so their numerical advantage isn't quite as severe. I hope its a bug.
- Frequency of raids dropping on top of you is alarmingly high. Could use a tweak.
- Diseases during caravaneering seem to be number one problem making their worth questionable. You got the plague out of your cozy bed? You dead.
- Faction relations decay is kind of high and could use a tone down.
- Reward in relations for all faction tasks like delivering certain amount of items should be higher +5 is kinda crap. You get more by gifting them some t-shirts when they visit.
- Steel shortage, man... Earlier you could scavenge for some steel, components and other stuff on temporary maps like those from long range mineral scanner. Now you can't. I really don't like that change. Opportunistic mining should be a thing.
- I'll say it again mineral scanner should pop a huge steel deposit from time to time instead of everything else. Steel is the lifeblood of this game. There should be more ways of getting it. Smelting weapons and slag chunks could use a significant boost, so that raids can be a half-decent source of steel, while you could also recover more easily when things get rekt.
- Wolves and wild boars should get their brains back. Well at least wolves. Those are very smart animals. I don't understand why the nerf to them hauling.
- Moodlets in the rain... Either you should add a counter to them, like wearing any hat removes it, or this shouldn't be a thing at all. Its small on its own. But when stacks with some other crap it often is the last straw.
- Moodlets for rivers. I guess i see why that would be a thing, but, man, not with RW's poor pathfinding system, that doesn't really take rivers into account when you hunt or haul something. You really shouldn't have to cover whole river with bridges. Solved by not playing with a river or installing a Path Avoid mod in combination with bridges, so its tolerable.
- Transhumanist\purists thingy. Ugh, i probably won't ever get tired of rambling about whole colony suddenly turning into whiny Jensens, but oh well. This one also can be cured by mods.
Couple flavor things - slow assault rifles and charge rifles firing 2 shot bursts... After whole generation of alphas where they shot in 3-bullet quick bursts it feels awful... I wish it 'd be brought back to 3 fast shots. While I don't mind changes to difficulty naming quite like some people, I still preferred old names.
Overall despite problems i mentioned (i might have forgotten to mention a few more), i had a ton of fun playing RW as always. Most of those issues are purely subjective, that annoy me personally, so if you think its how it should be - i am fine with it. Large part of those if not all of them (like the Jensen problem) can be most easily solved by mods, so for now I'll be waiting for them to update. Might start another run if I see some more interesting stuff and fixes in the next build though. Big thanks for your hard work on this game, Tynan. Its one of the most amazing games in my life and that is not an exaggeration.
FYI there's a ton of todo I've got stacked up so if something isn't getting addressed it doesn't necessarily mean we're not intending to address it.
New build. This was all ison this time:
----
Fix 3302: Pawns cannot path through colonists engaged in combat
Fix 3481: 'Work to uninstall' displays on info cards of structures that can't be uninstalled
Fix 3473: Exception filling window for Verse.Dialog_InfoCard (artificial body parts)
Fix 3477: Plate Armour lacks an unfinished ThingDef
Outpost site part now mentions how many enemies there are in letters.
GenSteps can now have runtime data. Site cores and parts can now have runtime data. The long-range mineral scanner now says in the letter what kind of mineable resource was found.
PreciousLump sites now expire after 30 days.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 10:06:28 PM
Fix 3302: Pawns cannot path through colonists engaged in combat
<3 Thank You!!
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 10:06:28 PM
Outpost site part now mentions how many enemies there are in letters.
So outpost sites generate garrison upon quest generation, not visiting the map then? Interesting. And how about things like refugee and mine sites? Do those generate guards when the temp map is generated? Do they scale with wealth of your caravan, your colony, or just with the amount of people you sent there?
Also, of course i didn't imply that you won't be fixing those problems, I just implied, that some of those were problems to me, not to others :D
Simple simple Quality of Life addition, PLEASE:
When I right click to initiate a task, please have that simply automatically OVERRIDE the job set/permissions I have established so that I don't have to go into Jobs/Work and click on OK to do HAUL, and then re click the pawn to simply haul some $h(#! Just make it a one time override and get to work, little pawn.
Just started my save in the newest build. It told me to expect problems but this one is odd (and amusing) enough to report.
First, when I loaded the save it told me I'd lost, and that maybe some day someone would find use for this place. I opted to continue and all my pawns were fine and kept working.
Second, the first event that came up was a guy getting chased. We offered to help him, and he ran onto the map and seems to already know us. Which is a little weird seeing as he's a tribesman and we just fell from the sky. I know in older versions you can stumble on someone's ex-wife or whatnot, but this seems a bit extreme.
(http://pulpaudio.com/rimworld/rimworld_friendly.jpg)
(Both Yoko and Xia are from the original 3, along with Xia's husband who this guy doesn't seem to know)
Im playing the unstable and my pawns much rather take the time to walk through 3-4 doors instead of going 4 squares to the right and taking the street. My entire base is open and set up like a town rather than a complex. so i have buildings and roads all over the place, almost like in a grid. If pawns could judge going through doors as more of a burden to the path that would be nice. But I have no idea how the AI decides its path. I just want them to take the roads and pathways when it makes sense. instead of trying to run through 4 doors.
Seeing as unstable is being update so rapidly I figured now would be a good time to speak up.
I'm not going to read through nearly 70 pages of posts to see if this has been discussed already or not, just throwing it out there.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 10:24:31 AM
If you can just kite away from melee guys, turning and shooting them as you run, the game is broken.
About that - This has certainly become easier now that bionics are craftable irrespective of the deadzone change.
Easier still when attacking outposts with a single super-soldier even vs guns. Particularly because enemies prefer to get to cover before taking shots.
It's a little hard to describe so for the sake of brevity I figured I'd just record what I'm talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ce0J7Tv_k
---
I'm a dumbass and forgot to show wealth/charts while recording so I've dumped them on imgur
https://imgur.com/a/de75tX8
This is probably the.. 15th? outpost I've done this to. They vary in difficulty a bit but frankly they all play out more or less the same. Amusingly a noticeable % of the art in the game now references Ramos taking out outposts on his own.
I know it's a little bit of an obscure balance niche but.. it's there.
Quote
Night owl trait should also remove the debuff from being in darkness. If you re used to sleeping the day in, you shouldn't complain about darkness.
It obviously depends on the design of your base and your power concerns but.. there's already a significant reason to light up the majority of your base - Global work speed and movement speed are both reduced by 20% when in the dark. Lamps only cost 30W of power now too.
Even if the moodlet for darkness was removed for night owls it would still be in your best interest to light up the majority of your working/traffic areas. Also being awake during 23-6 gives a whopping +16 mood compared to the -5 from darkness. This tends to lead to more inspirations during the mood peaks this causes. It's quite beneficial in my experience.
Quote
Steel is the lifeblood of this game. There should be more ways of getting it.
Have you tried requesting caravans? You can get ~300-350 steel per day just by purchasing it from all 4 factions and keeping their caravan requests on cooldown. Keep in mind that virtually everything can be turned into steel via trade at varying levels of efficiency.
As it stands you can - Mine it, Deep Drill it, Trade for it, Smelt slag, Smelt Weapons, scavenge it from world events (structures).
There are a lot of ways to get steel. Though I'll be damned if I know what you're spending it on. 5 years in and I'm sitting on 4400 steel with mineable steel still on my map and a crapload of deep drilling totally untouched.
And that's only using 2 faction's trade caravans and not at their maximum potential.
Quote
The long-range mineral scanner now says in the letter what kind of mineable resource was found.
+ the "Known Threats" piece of interface are freakin' awesome.
No more arriving to a site under-equipped and being forced to leave it, destroying it in the process.
Solved all my risk equation problems with the LRMS
Edit:
Quote
I'll say it again mineral scanner should pop a huge steel deposit from time to time instead of everything else.
I forgot to mention, the LRMS can find compacted machinery(components)now. And it can be in fairly gigantic chunks. The largest I've seen so far was 71 pieces of compacted machinery, a whopping 142 components which translates to 1704 steel.
There's one problem. When ever I drag an item to be built outside the map area, it gave me an error.
Please check it out I guess for this is a simple problem.
Thanks.
Quote from: dearmad on June 29, 2018, 11:07:33 PM
Simple simple Quality of Life addition, PLEASE:
When I right click to initiate a task, please have that simply automatically OVERRIDE the job set/permissions I have established so that I don't have to go into Jobs/Work and click on OK to do HAUL, and then re click the pawn to simply haul some $h(#! Just make it a one time override and get to work, little pawn.
Related: it would be great if forbidden items were overridden on my click. Still says forbidden, still can't be otherwise touched, but don't need to unforbid and then reforbid afterwards. Minor thing.
Quote from: Boboid on June 29, 2018, 11:19:51 PM
It obviously depends on the design of your base and your power concerns but.. there's already a significant reason to light up the majority of your base - Global work speed and movement speed are both reduced by 20% when in the dark. Lamps only cost 30W of power now too.
Even if the moodlet for darkness was removed for night owls it would still be in your best interest to light up the majority of your working/traffic areas. Also being awake during 23-6 gives a whopping +16 mood compared to the -5 from darkness. This tends to lead to more inspirations during the mood peaks this causes. It's quite beneficial in my experience.
I don't mind the speed and work penalties, those are fine. It just irks me that a night owl person like myself, that actually likes the quiet darkness of night would complain about being in the dark. Its wrong.
Quote from: Boboid on June 29, 2018, 11:19:51 PM
Have you tried requesting caravans? You can get ~300-350 steel per day just by purchasing it from all 4 factions and keeping their caravan requests on cooldown. Keep in mind that virtually everything can be turned into steel via trade at varying levels of efficiency.
As it stands you can - Mine it, Deep Drill it, Trade for it, Smelt slag, Smelt Weapons, scavenge it from world events (structures).
There are a lot of ways to get steel. Though I'll be damned if I know what you're spending it on. 5 years in and I'm sitting on 4400 steel with mineable steel still on my map and a crapload of deep drilling totally untouched.
And that's only using 2 faction's trade caravans and not at their maximum potential.
Trade for it. I don't like trading much in RW. Its severely limited in what those picky traders actually want to buy, how much money they have and what they have to sell. Yes i did call caravans, they got their 300 steel to sell. 300 steel... its like 1.5 autocannon recharge or 6 components crafted. Really? Plus you'll always have a net loss unless you travel to their home base and that can just wipe your convoy with one plague if Randy so desires. Big fat "meh". I also don't really try to get allied with anyone - with the relation decay its kind of a pain to maintain. I do gift them some stuff i don't need from time to time, but to purposely try to get allied with 4 factions and having to manage relations with them all, so that i can use their caravan call option? Nah, i am fine without those. I keep one faction happy to be able to call some bullet sponges in case of particularly nasty raids and thats it.
Mine it - if you're on a biggest map possible and it has small or large hills - thats viable, but not for long. And flat maps are mostly just horrible. I like having BIG towns built with many colonists, many houses, benches, ACs... etc. Big base require a ton of steel to function. Surface deposits expire in a blink of an eye. Of course if you play Cassie with 13 guys on a medium or small map, yeah you won't ever feel such greed for steel. But that playstyle is not for me.
Deep drilling got much better, thanks to Tynan's efforts, yes, this now is a viable and convenient source of steel late game, not without its quirks (it occasionally deep drills some insect meat now, but that add to the fun of it).
Smelting hardly gives you jack. You smelt one huge slag chunk into whooping 10 steel. Yay? Hardly viable. Weapons give even less at times...
To scavenge steel from events you actually need to travel (plague dice rolls) and have sufficient inventory space (bringing muffalo, also vulnerable to dice rolls). Earlier version you could have steel spawned on temporary maps, so you could opportunisticly mine it and take it home - now you can't. This option is somewhat viable, but massively inferior to deep drilling. Making long range mineral scanners find steel and letting temporary maps spawn resources would be a nice change.
And thats why i said those problems are subjective. Depending on play style, map size, difficulty, ways to counter different event your colony's steel consumption varies hugely.
Story Post
1.0.1949, Crashlanded, Phoebe, Hard. World seed: butt stuff. settled in Daniel's Joy Forest. Flat temperate forest, year-round growing.
Tater, Marc and Speedy. 3 boys who didnt join the boy scouts.
Tater is a constructor, shooter, clubber, doctor and warden, speedy learns fast but doesn't walk fast.
Marc is a quick sleeper and a night owl, interesting... I'm just glad he's a doctor too.
3 steam vents in very close proximity and a sizable patch of rich soil. That is going to influence where I build stuff.
The colony is now known as Cabbageton. Sadly we only grow rice.
Day 5: raid of one club user/goer named Mason. Why else would he have a bowler hat in daniel's joy forest? He's clearly lost after partying too hard. After taking 6 shots we engage him in fisticuffs and capture him.
Day 6. Escape pod: staggeringly ugly teenage pyro with an alcohol addiction. Free clothes and medicine exp. I'm not desperate for human leather unlike some people.
Day 10: escape pod 2, electric boogaloo: nimble body purist female who can cook and research! Don't care that they are greedy.
Day 11: Mason joins. Level 10 cook. He cooks. He sleeps. He cooks again.
Day 13: Marc gets inspired recruitment. He talks about basic colony things and bores Olesya into joining us, I guess.
Day 17: I notice Speedy has mined all the requested steel nodes. There's 4000 steel on the ground. Level 10 mining with very neurotic. Explains a bit.
Day 18: two short bow tribesmen attack. One of them gets 3 bullets in the torso and dies. The other one is a jogger and escapes.
Day 19: blight on just planted corn. No biggie.
Day 21: cougar revenge. Tater is apparently a crack shot and hits it 3 times in a row while Olesya runs for her life. Quest appears: Item stash of AI persona core. I'll be honest, I've never been tempted to get that or try for the space ship escape, whether by building or caravaning.
Day 22: Tater leaves for peace talks. He is so fast on roads I had no idea. Is that just the road bonus or the single person caravan bonus? Later that day a heat wave and eclipse happen at the exact same time. Which is odd, since it does get noticeably cooler during an eclipse. Speedy had a mental break because darkness, but also let's not forget he is very neurotic. Peace talks success, visitors and a trade merchant aaaaaand they are killing each other again. They destroyed my wood picnic table. Tribesmen won the fight losing only one member.
The unfinished simple helmet looks like a rod?
Day 25: Muffalo 1 survived the flu.
Day 30 Perimeter defences are being built out of granite. Base is huge for 5 people.
Day 32 Walls are ¾ done, raid of 4 short bow users show up. Used the corners of my warehouses as cover, they used the stone blocks that havent moved. While 2 of them left to light my fields on fire I sent my 2 knife users at the 2 still shooting. One tap from each and the raid was over. One escaped, 3 died. I've decided that plate armor is the right research at this point.
Day 37: escape pod. Female greedy body purist who can grow stuff. I capture her and now a civil outlander union is at war with me. I wish it were more obvious that this happens. Especially since it said space refugee. How exactly are they already in a faction if they aren't from this planet? Still, another pair of hands for me. Gabby has lv 6 social skill, fitting.
Day 45: my 2 battery 2 windmill set up is no longer adequate. 18 Snowhares begin their assault by all existing in the same tile and trying to bite down a steel door. I restrict every animal and colonist to the home zone which is only inside the walls. Not 2 hours later a local muffalo joins their side. Walls are less useful vs raiders and mechs. Absolutely necessary for manhunter packs.
I don't have turrets yet, just wondering if they have combat logs.
Day 46: smokeleaf production is in full swing. Everyone forgets evil rabbits lurk outside the walls.
Day 50: escape pod. luciferium need, depressive, nonviolent. Three strikes you're out. I'll sell the pills you brought so you won't die for nothing. We just had a party so I can afford to practice reinstalling lungs and kidneys on this poor space refugee. Marc gains 3 levels of medicine in one night. The following day my other 2 doctors copy Marc. I now have 3 level 8 doctors. I also have no regrets.
Day 51: Boomalope self tame. Okay... will definitely send him into battle at some point.
Day 52: escape pod from a tribal faction. Already hostile so I capture the person and incur no further penalty, not that the game gave me a rescue option. Gabela is a kind misandrist and joins on day 54.
Day 61: 11 manhunting emus invade our territory. Hooray for walls and wooden deadfall traps. I cleared trees outside the walls so that fires dont come too close and raiders dont try to fight too far away. The wood from it has been going into upgrading beds dressers and plenty of deadfall traps. Emus found this out the hard way. After the emus were all dead or gone I sent mason out for a peace talks. He'll only be gone 2 days.
Plate armor construction seems buggy, it doesnt create an unfinished item so once marc stops making it the haulers disassemble it... please fix.
Day 62: 9 plants got blighted. I don't think this is ever a problem for me. It is annoying and tedious to fix without the mod(s) that allow cutting all blighted plants. I wouldn't miss Blight if it were gone. I have no experience playing cassandra extreme for example, perhaps it can ruin colonies there.
Turns out mason sucks at peace talks. Oh well. If only he brought a gift that wasnt the agave he found on the side of the road. Halfway home mason is asked to strip naked and give all his stuff to Riesling. Mason won the knife fight. I would have recruited them but they died.
Day 77: Seige. I'm probably boned. A single autopistol is their highest ranged weapon above a pump shotgun. Delay the mortars. They quickly saw the fight going south and left their steel and meals on the ground. Chased us back to our defenses. We captured 4 of the 13 of them. Only lost the bonded monkey, but even with that Marc is always in "high" spirits. We have 200 joints at the moment.
Day 79 : sent tater on a peace talks quest 7 hours away. Success! Marc recruited Sonia at .67% chance. More success! Boomalope 2 joins the colony by self taming. Triple Success!
Day 91: heat wave + party. Marc gets food poisoning, then gets stoned. While the party goes on, nobody bothers to help him. He is maximum chill. The colony learns the ultimate relaxation technique: if you can't move you can only relax.
Day 93: Zana joins the colony just in time for an infestation. Nobody loses any body parts. Well, except the insects.
Day 95: cargo pods bring 39 insect jelly. I just got 589, thanks...? Also first zzzzt. I have no idea what triggers that event but it sure is annoying.
Day 96: trade away 600 insect jelly for masterwork flak jacket, power armor helmet and some medicine. Net worth totals 94000 now. 3 hours later another trader shows up and they start their war over my territory? I really don't know if this is common for everyone...so I nab their weapons and even their meals. Free assault rifle. Bought 2 hens, 2 roosters from the tribe, then I traded 3000 corn for enough rep to be allied with the tribe who won this fight as well. (grenading your allies in the back is not a great tactic)
I get to thinking a mech ship part is going to land soon, and I still haven't seen a quest or trader with advanced components or gold. Still no multianalyzer. I'd trade for it but I am enemies with the outlander unions.
Day 102: "Tater called Gabby a manatee, this drove Gabby into a rage and she began a fight"... doesn't line up with the top left thing that said Gabby started a fight with the reason being disfigured. Tater has a frostbite scar on his ear, Gabby has no health issues... They are lying to me like children would.
Aren't some animals supposed to be nocturnal hunters? Once tamed they would mimic their masters' schedule, right?
Just looking at cocoa trees I thought they were blighted and I can't imagine searching for blight on them.
This is the first colony I have had that doesn't have lovers or marriage. Basically ran out of components, have no source of plasteel, have 200 uranium and nothing to do with it.
Day 114: I have tamed 11 gazelles and I am opening the ancient danger. 1 minigun centipede, 2 melee scythers, place your bets!
Day 115: tribal shaman merchant brings 150 plasteel and 59 gold. We trade drugs for it. Lots. of. Drugs.
Day 116: refugee chased at cabbageton. 15 angry dudes vs my 10. Got 6 new gun upgrades and a fresh face in the refugee. I feel like this colony is set and won't die any time soon.
[attachment deleted due to age]
The description for burning tainted and clean clothes are the same.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 29, 2018, 11:42:06 PM
Trade for it. I don't like trading much in RW. Its severely limited in what those picky traders actually want to buy, how much money they have and what they have to sell. Yes i did call caravans, they got their 300 steel to sell. 300 steel... its like 1.5 autocannon recharge or 6 components crafted. Really? Plus you'll always have a net loss unless you travel to their home base and that can just wipe your convoy with one plague if Randy so desires. Big fat "meh". I also don't really try to get allied with anyone - with the relation decay its kind of a pain to maintain.
I get that you dont
like trade but.. mathematically it's efficient and effective.
As for picky traders - bulk goods traders aren't particularly picky and it's fairly trivial to learn what they'll buy from you given the new interface which shows exactly that. Moreover you can
choose which traders you call in.
They always have 900-1300 silver which is not inconsiderable. Not all trade needs to be done on a massive scale for it to be useful.
As for the amount of steel. It's 1.6 autocannons
OR 1 with 120 steel left over. It takes 12 steel per component so 300 steel is 25 components, or 1 autocannon recharge AND 10 components.
As for a "net loss" that's the nature of trade in RW, you pay more for specific things you want, and sell things you don't want at less than their value. That system doesn't mean that all trade is pointless, it just means the efficiency has changed marginally.
Your money is worthless if you're not willing to spend it on the thing you need the most.
As to the
amount of steel you can gain this way? It's ~300
per day using all 4 factions request caravan functions on cooldown. That's 18,000 steel per rimworld year or 4,500 per season. It's massive!
Moreover it only costs ~350 silver per caravan called which is overkill and leads to net reputation gain over time, and ~900 to buy their steel. If your steel demands are that high (~300
per day remember) then it stands to reason you have the manpower required to generate ~1250 silver fairly consistently. Even if it's just via gigantic farm plots/hydroponics.
It's efficient, riskless, and consistent. It's everything you want
Ultimately the equation works out to be " Would you pay ~4 silver for ~1 steel " and if the answer is yes then all you need to do is press a few buttons.
---
I'm getting horrible deja'vu so I'm going to leave the entire trade conversation to rest from here on out.
As to the night owl discussion: Take into consideration that when it's dark in rimworld it's
pitch black. When your pawns are complaining about darkness it's because they're in a pitch-black cave under 30kms of rock.
It's not "Bedroom floor by phone-light" dark, it's " I literally can't see my hand pressed up against my nose" dark.
It's a miracle they can do anything at 80% speed and that they only get a -5 moodlet.
I've been known to be nocturnal for a few weeks at a time and I can tell you that if I was forced to have all my curtains closed and my lights off I'd be more than 5% irked about the entire business after 20 minutes.
Quote from: Boboid on June 29, 2018, 11:19:51 PM
This is probably the.. 15th? outpost I've done this to. They vary in difficulty a bit but frankly they all play out more or less the same. Amusingly a noticeable % of the art in the game now references Ramos taking out outposts on his own.
I know it's a little bit of an obscure balance niche but.. it's there.
Its seems kinda cheezy, though I consider kiting to be a valid tactic, and that pawn would be the definition of a super soldier if there was ever one, I mean, its a transhuman, range only pawn, fully bionic with top gear, so I'd be unsure whether to claim it as broken or not, but then again, depending on difficulty.
Quote from: Boboid on June 29, 2018, 11:19:51 PM
Quote
Night owl trait should also remove the debuff from being in darkness. If you re used to sleeping the day in, you shouldn't complain about darkness.
It obviously depends on the design of your base and your power concerns but.. there's already a significant reason to light up the majority of your base - Global work speed and movement speed are both reduced by 20% when in the dark. Lamps only cost 30W of power now too.
Even if the moodlet for darkness was removed for night owls it would still be in your best interest to light up the majority of your working/traffic areas. Also being awake during 23-6 gives a whopping +16 mood compared to the -5 from darkness. This tends to lead to more inspirations during the mood peaks this causes. It's quite beneficial in my experience.
But considering that may have do work outside, in the
night, I do agree they shouldn't get that mood debuff. However this shouldn't excuse people to properly light their base, and I'm hoping for a cheaper wall lamp and a feature that they light up only when there's someone in the room.
Quote from: dearmad on June 29, 2018, 11:07:33 PM
Simple simple Quality of Life addition, PLEASE:
When I right click to initiate a task, please have that simply automatically OVERRIDE the job set/permissions I have established so that I don't have to go into Jobs/Work and click on OK to do HAUL, and then re click the pawn to simply haul some $h(#! Just make it a one time override and get to work, little pawn.
Quote from: Injured Muffalo on June 29, 2018, 11:35:19 PM
Related: it would be great if forbidden items were overridden on my click. Still says forbidden, still can't be otherwise touched, but don't need to unforbid and then reforbid afterwards. Minor thing.
Disagree on both regards, I fail to see the reason why you override a job permission in any case, specially with hauling, since anyone that can do hauling should already be assigned to it, or in other cases, overriding a non medic or a non crafter and etc. As a matter o fact, I would to not have to manually override anything, and instead focus on fixing issues with working priorities, as was the case with hauling.
I also fail to see why you would need to keep a item forbidden, but then still using it.
Quote from: XelNigma on June 29, 2018, 11:15:52 PM
Im playing the unstable and my pawns much rather take the time to walk through 3-4 doors instead of going 4 squares to the right and taking the street. My entire base is open and set up like a town rather than a complex. so i have buildings and roads all over the place, almost like in a grid. If pawns could judge going through doors as more of a burden to the path that would be nice. But I have no idea how the AI decides its path. I just want them to take the roads and pathways when it makes sense. instead of trying to run through 4 doors.
It depends on how was your design, and it would to post a picture. But regarding path finding, they will usually just take the fastest path, you can check the walking speed for each path, so if you have autodoors, it might just be that going through the buildings is the fastest path.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 29, 2018, 11:42:06 PM
I also don't really try to get allied with anyone - with the relation decay its kind of a pain to maintain. I do gift them some stuff i don't need from time to time, but to purposely try to get allied with 4 factions and having to manage relations with them all, so that i can use their caravan call option? Nah, i am fine without those.
Btw I need to make a point here, there are five faction, one always hostile pirates, two modern colonist, two tribal, of each one aggressive and one passive. Just making a point here that only the aggressive factions have relationship decay, the other two don't. And overall that looks rather sensible to me.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 30, 2018, 12:20:33 AM
Quote from: Boboid on June 29, 2018, 11:19:51 PM
This is probably the.. 15th? outpost I've done this to. They vary in difficulty a bit but frankly they all play out more or less the same. Amusingly a noticeable % of the art in the game now references Ramos taking out outposts on his own.
I know it's a little bit of an obscure balance niche but.. it's there.
Its seems kinda cheezy, though I consider kiting to be a valid tactic, and that pawn would be the definition of a super soldier if there was ever one, I mean, its a transhuman, range only pawn, fully bionic with top gear, so I'd be unsure whether to claim it as broken or not, but then again, depending on difficulty.
Oh it's unquestionably exploiting the fact that the AI tries to find cover before opening fire. If it didn't that one guy with a bolt action rifle would've made my life hell.. Which is why I shot him with a charge lance at the start. I've done similar raids where the enemy has had 2-3 sniper rifles, it plays out the same because of the massive windup on the rifles.
As to pawn quality.. It's 5 years in a game where I've only recruited transhumanists with the intention of giving everyone a crapload of bionics. The result is that everyone does a LOT of shooting and work so they all end up being quite high quality.
https://imgur.com/a/AmntBkl
Everyone has at least 1 bionic eye and leg.
Eli has 2 eyes(was my starting colonist, naked brutality start), Lour/minty's both have 1 bionic arm, Fabio has a spine because he had a bad back.
Minty's only just joined the colony so her shooting skill is still garbage. Giving her all the hunting jobs for quite a while.
Edit: Heh forgot that Tobias had a minigun, careful shooter with a minigun isn't particularly efficient just in case anyone was wondering.
Quote
But considering that may have do work outside, in the night, I do agree they shouldn't get that mood debuff. However this shouldn't excuse people to properly light their base, and I'm hoping for a cheaper wall lamp and a feature that they light up only when there's someone in the room.
I mean.. there are ways to circumnavigate this if you're willing to spend the time/space. If they have to do growing then you can light up your fields for example. Hunting or hauling outside of usual thoroughfares you're out of luck but as mentioned the night owl bonus is a massive 16.
If darkness is a problem for your night owls then the investment of steel/power for more lights in their areas seems worthwhile as-is.
Quote from: Boboid on June 30, 2018, 12:16:33 AM
I'm getting horrible deja'vu so I'm going to leave the entire trade conversation to rest from here on out.
I was about to suggest dropping the topic as well :) Our approach to this game is too different.
From mathematical point of view you might be right - if you do it perfectly, train a level 20 talker to minimize losses, raise and maintain relations with 4 factions by gifts and quests, call them each and every day for caravans, finding the money or something to barter with to consistently buy out 300 steel a day - yeah it will be as you said. And the sad part is, that unless you are ready to dump your map at some point, you'll be forced to get steel via trade anyway, once deep drills run out (granted it will take you ages to mine out biggest map).
In earlier alphas once i ran out of steel deposits it usually ended with me consistently trading wooden art (as wood was easy to come by) for money and then buying out all the steel coming my way. I found that kinda boring. I guess i will give trading a run next time, but that won't change the fact that adding steel to temporary maps and scanners is a good idea.
Quote from: Gfurst on June 30, 2018, 12:26:32 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on June 29, 2018, 11:42:06 PM
I also don't really try to get allied with anyone - with the relation decay its kind of a pain to maintain. I do gift them some stuff i don't need from time to time, but to purposely try to get allied with 4 factions and having to manage relations with them all, so that i can use their caravan call option? Nah, i am fine without those.
Btw I need to make a point here, there are five faction, one always hostile pirates, two modern colonist, two tribal, of each one aggressive and one passive. Just making a point here that only the aggressive factions have relationship decay, the other two don't. And overall that looks rather sensible to me.
This is true about personalities, but I don't think the part about decay is true. If you highlight the civil outlander it says it decays when over 50, unfortunately, and hostiles decay when over -80
Edit: Just gave a a faction 300 flake and now they're pretty much my forever ally xD They sure do like to party.
You know, there's a simple solution to this whole steel shortage problem and it's in the vanilla game.
(1) Increase Maximum Number of Colonies to 2 or higher
(2) Form a caravan, travel at least 2 tiles away and create a new settlement
(3) Mine everything of interest at the new settlement
(4) Caravan back, abandon the new settlement, repeat the process
edit: that being said, I've never done this before but I just tested it a few minutes ago and it seems to work.
Yeah, it kind of defeats the purpose of the LRMS though, and the game just feels like it's supposed to be balanced with 1 colony.
One idea I'm having is sending pack animal caravans, as faction bases do have nearly 1000 steel that refreshes twice a year I think. Although that would raise visibilty enough to warrant needing armed guards :/
Edit: Actually this is becoming less of an issue than I expected after getting an ally: every 4 days caravan means actually quite a lot of steel. ~4500 a year
Edit: Being able to reposition the deep drill is having an interesting consequence: I was able to find uranium by simply reposition the drill 6 times before getting a scanner. This is super time intense and not at all worth it in the long term, but just thought it should be known.
(Previously: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg413970#msg413970)
The Muffalo Mob has easily endured the second winter. This time we have food to spare and we are up-to-date on training. There haven't been any serious threats. A few paltry siege attempts, but the Mob swept them away. There was a manhunting pack of 34 alphabeavers, but... we have 34 animals. Bigger ones. Better organized, and with sniper support.
We are now looking into efficiency improvements. So much of colonist time is spent feeding the Mob that there's little left over for anything else. We hope to finish electricity and have all of the basic efficiency improvements in place by the next winter.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Finally decided to stop lurking and share some feedback on my Tundra base:
-Alphabeavers came two years in a row and completely cleared the map of it's remaining trees (and any trees I had attempted to plant in year 2). Definitely an more impactful event on low tree count maps, but there were way too many beavers to stop in time even with all my combat capable pawns on active hunting duty.
-I can't set-up a kibble drop zone outdoors without every wild creature on the map bee-lining for the fresh pile.
-Just experienced a very frustrating event where a bear mauled one of my colonists to death right in front of two turrets that refused to fire on the beast. It appears that the ability to manually target with turrets has been removed, which would be fine if they actually fired when I needed them to.
-Could passion level be added to the mouse-over tooltips on the Work tab? That addition would save so much time flipping from the Work tab to each character's skill page to make sure that they are assigned to skills with good passions.
Overall, loving the 1.0 changes!
When playing I noticed one very irritating thing yesterday: When a pawn is drafted with a ranged weapon they do not shoot at the closest enemy automatically. Instead for some very weird reason priorotise enemies with ranged weapons.
Not game breaking but i will need to have manually target the charging club man :P.
Quote from: Boboid on June 30, 2018, 12:16:33 AM
I get that you dont like trade but.. mathematically it's efficient and effective.
I think the big difference here is there are people who don't want to run the trade caravans basically on cooldown - it feels gamey and tedious.
Quote from: Tynan on June 29, 2018, 10:06:28 PM
Fix 3302: Pawns cannot path through colonists engaged in combat
I am so happy. Thank you.
-----------------------
There is certainly early steel drought. All weapons and armor requires steel and the turret also requires a large amount of steel. Two basses(town) for steel are useful but quite cumbersome.
-How about this change?-
What about replacing a long range scanner with early research and How about offering steel and some components? And, instead of rare metals, iron is provided within 0.2 day range. It would be better to reduce the waiting time significantly, or rather to charge the chemical fuel to a certain amount and then use it to search for radar.
People will actively do it for steel demand before deep drilling. And steel will tame the animal because it is heavy.
Through later research, steel radars will be able to perform additional rare metal radar functions at discrete intervals from steel.
People will feel free to use the nearest World Map location, which will allow them to consider longer distances with a caravan prepared for it.(caravan animal+food+Caravan experience.)
It would be interesting to be able to create a ground penetrating scanner as a resource that can only be obtained from a long range.
Quote from: Antaios on June 30, 2018, 03:08:36 AM
Quote from: Boboid on June 30, 2018, 12:16:33 AM
I get that you dont like trade but.. mathematically it's efficient and effective.
I think the big difference here is there are people who don't want to run the trade caravans basically on cooldown - it feels gamey and tedious.
It would be nice to have an "order huge caravan" that costed 60 faction and was 4x the size and cooldown. I am pretty much just ordering bulk nonstop with only some combat/exotic
Got a NullReferenceException when getting a Item Stash quest. I suspect it was the Orassan faction who gave it because it was the only faction with no leader :P.
Item stash with Debug Console (https://www.dropbox.com/s/renotgxiur00ujs/20180630094542_1.jpg?dl=0)
Factions (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwzif5h7v5ujh2o/20180630094628_1.jpg?dl=0)
Should be fairly trivial to fix. A simple null check!
Is malaria in tropical forests programmed to "just" happen? I save scammed 6 times and my pawn always gets it on 22th day of playing.
Quote from: Lech on June 30, 2018, 04:36:34 AM
Is malaria in tropical forests programmed to "just" happen? I save scammed 6 times and my pawn always gets it on 22th day of playing.
You get infected with malaria before the message, a couple days about, and malaria's progress starts progressing from 0% unawares to you. So if you saved on the 18th or so you're already infected, so no amount of scumming at that point will save you :P.
Quote from: ChJees on June 30, 2018, 03:49:56 AM
Got a NullReferenceException when getting a Item Stash quest. I suspect it was the Orassan faction who gave it because it was the only faction with no leader :P.
Item stash with Debug Console (https://www.dropbox.com/s/renotgxiur00ujs/20180630094542_1.jpg?dl=0)
Factions (https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwzif5h7v5ujh2o/20180630094628_1.jpg?dl=0)
Should be fairly trivial to fix. A simple null check!
Isn't orassans a mod? XD
Quote from: hedgehogger on June 30, 2018, 02:13:14 AM
Finally decided to stop lurking and share some feedback on my Tundra base:
-Alphabeavers came two years in a row and completely cleared the map of it's remaining trees (and any trees I had attempted to plant in year 2). Definitely an more impactful event on low tree count maps, but there were way too many beavers to stop in time even with all my combat capable pawns on active hunting duty.
Alphabeavers can be countered manually. Just dont try to kill them one by one. Hit one until he bleed enough, then switch to next. And just leave them to die by bleeding. Such hunting save a lot of pawn time in cost of increased micromanagement. Also, best weapon for such hunt is minigun. (if nothing changed from previous versions)
Just realized in the op you wanted wealth graphs and not many have posted this. Here's a wealth graph of a randy extreme on ideal economy map (temperate, small hills, no cold snap due to 19C min temp). Also showing how my turrets are going so far :D
[attachment deleted due to age]
Tree sowing seems ridiculously too slow. At least cocoa trees, I haven't tried sowing any other kind of tree yet... Regardless, I wouldn't think it would take an Industrious level 14 grower 2 hours to sow a single tree. I understand that tree sowing can't be as fast as regular plants, but with how it is right now, it's going to take a week for 3 people to sow a medium-sized field of cocoa trees, a week that they will not be doing anything else.
On that note, I find it funny, leveling my growers has become easy because of how long trees need to sow, while leveling my crafter is much harder now since nearly everything is crafted a lot faster.
Regarding factions: the constant faction decay makes them feel not worth pursuing, at least to me. I would much rather they decay when you ask them to do stuff. I also feel like there needs to be some threshold or diminishing return when gifting stuff. Gifting vast quantities of generic stuff, though the numbers check out, feels rather off.
In particular, this sounds like something that legendary items and one-off quest rewards like artifacts could be useful for. There's no effective way of mass-producing them, so they can be much more rewarding and meaningful gifts without the feeling that you're buying a whole faction's loyalty with 10,000 rice.
Quote from: Greep on June 30, 2018, 04:40:05 AM
Isn't orassans a mod? XD
Yes, but the ability for a standard NPC faction (as opposed to say mechanoids) to not have a leader is core, even if none of the core factions use it. Either the letter should be modified to work properly with leaderless factions,
or a standard faction not having a leader should be a config error.
Quote from: jamaicancastle on June 30, 2018, 06:02:14 AM
Regarding factions: the constant faction decay makes them feel not worth pursuing, at least to me. I would much rather they decay when you ask them to do stuff. I also feel like there needs to be some threshold or diminishing return when gifting stuff. Gifting vast quantities of generic stuff, though the numbers check out, feels rather off.
In particular, this sounds like something that legendary items and one-off quest rewards like artifacts could be useful for. There's no effective way of mass-producing them, so they can be much more rewarding and meaningful gifts without the feeling that you're buying a whole faction's loyalty with 10,000 rice.
I agree that decay kind of robs the fun in trying to get allies, however i disagree about gifts. Of course i know that 10k rice is just an example, but it is a crapton, you feed a decently sized city for a year with that. I hate diminishing returns in games... Its the worst concept ever. It basically be the same it was in alphas - you buy relations with something, each next purchase gets more expensive. Only you won't be using silver, but rather other items like said rice.
And who would ever give up a legendary item, when you have to get extremely lucky (and i mean lucky, not skilled) to get one?
I keep seeing people and animals die to a rather minor injuries, is this a bug or i just don't understand some new underlying health systems?
I this example enemy died from single bruise to the torso.
No destroyed organs, no blood loss, no missing body parts.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: drunetovich on June 30, 2018, 06:16:48 AM
I keep seeing people and animals die to rather minor injuries, is this a bug or i just don't understand some underlying health systems?
Its because of death\down check this game has. Every time some pawn that is not from your colony gets downed it has 66% (well now its more than that) to just die outright, even though it should be just KOd instead and their systems still functional.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 30, 2018, 06:20:43 AM
Its because of death\down check this game has. Every time some pawn that is not from your colony gets downed it has 66% (well now its more than that) to just die outright, even though it should be just KOd instead and their systems still functional.
Ah, that explains it, thanks!
This is weird. Joseph is still counted as a slave after i rescued her from a quest.
Relationship tab (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1vb5dgrb7hvd9w2/20180630122347_1.jpg?dl=0)
Joseph herself (https://www.dropbox.com/s/wc5euoza3gm8ekk/20180630122349_1.jpg?dl=0)
Quote from: drunetovich on June 30, 2018, 06:25:51 AM
Ah, that explains it, thanks!
No prob :)
Quote from: ChJees on June 30, 2018, 06:26:09 AM
This is weird. Joseph is still counted as a slave after i rescued her from a quest.
Hey, what are those white hexagonal floors in your screens?
Quote from: Madman666 on June 30, 2018, 06:33:09 AM
Quote from: ChJees on June 30, 2018, 06:26:09 AM
This is weird. Joseph is still counted as a slave after i rescued her from a quest.
Hey, what are those white hexagonal floors in your screens?
Neo-concrete floor from Orassans.
Ah so its from Diana's cat people mod! Thanks =)
Hello there,
Regarding treating infections, apparently your tending lasts longer than the soonest moment that you can tend the infection again.
The tooltip doesn't explain though, what you should be doing in this situation.
Does it help to fight the infection better if you tend it again as soon as possible (which is what my priority 1 doctor wants to do) or does that mean I'm losing 3 hours of good QL tending and risking tending it in a lower quality?
I got lucky with herbal medicine and my lvl4 medicine pawn tending our captured raider's infection with 61% quality, so I'm kind of lost as to forbid tending her till the current tending expires, or let the AI proceed with tending even though I still have 3 hours left from the last one.
I like the fact that I don't have to wake up the doctor in the middle of the night because an infection just got tendable again, but I'm just not sure as to the implications on waiting or tending straight away.
Cheers and keep up the good work!
[attachment deleted due to age]
Found another unintended bug\feature. If you got Automatic rebuild on and something is destroyed (in this case a drop pod crashing onto it) on a bridge a blueprint is placed there anyway despite it could not be supported.
Conduit blueprint on water. (And no this is not a waterproof conduit) (https://www.dropbox.com/s/k37i7mvsgm6s035/20180630133034_1.jpg?dl=0)
Quote from: Madman666 on June 30, 2018, 06:20:43 AM
Its because of death\down check this game has. Every time some pawn that is not from your colony gets downed it has 66% (well now its more than that) to just die outright, even though it should be just KOd instead and their systems still functional.
When and why was that chance added in the first place? Seems dumb... Is there a way to mod it to 0%?
Quote from: Ambaire on June 30, 2018, 07:48:27 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on June 30, 2018, 06:20:43 AM
Its because of death\down check this game has. Every time some pawn that is not from your colony gets downed it has 66% (well now its more than that) to just die outright, even though it should be just KOd instead and their systems still functional.
When and why was that chance added in the first place? Seems dumb... Is there a way to mod it to 0%?
That mechanic has been in the game for... I want to say at least 4 years? Quite possibly more. I've certainly never played a version of rimworld without it.
The reason is insofar as I'm aware to reduce the number of raiders that are can be captured alive, for various reasons.
It means you've got fewer pawns to choose from, get less equipment, and can't rescue every single raider, practice medicine/social on them and then release them for reputation.
It also incidentally reduces the player's obligation to try and save every single raider and attempt to recruit them.
Frankly most of the game is very much balanced around that one core mechanic.
You probably could mod it to 0% but I suspect after two raids your game would spiral out of control one way or another.
Quote from: Boboid on June 30, 2018, 07:54:39 AMIt also incidentally reduces the player's obligation to try and save every single raider and attempt to recruit them.
Eh, I suppose. I've just thought it's a bit weird. I'd prefer a system where a wound has a chance to be instantly fatal (is there such a system already?)
QuoteYou probably could mod it to 0% but I suspect after two raids your game would spiral out of control one way or another.
How so? You don't have to capture every single one. It's really more of a time saving measure than anything else, otherwise you have to wait for them to bleed to death or hurry it up manually.
I'd like to see tranquilizer rounds or knockout darts specifically for capture purposes.
There s plenty of mods introducing non-lethal weapons, most of them have to update though. Of course you don't have any obligation to capture every single guy you down, but balance will fly out of the window if you could capture every single downed pawn. As @Boboid said, that way you could easily overgrind faction relations, by quickly patching up and releasing every raider that came, which would make diplomacy trivial. Plus you would have your pick at best potential recruits every single time and that would go against game's cute policy of sticking you with most awful colonists the game can cook up. Plus you could make endless fortunes just harvesting every raider you didn't like enough to recruit, which would also throw balance off.
Also combat can be pretty lethal - shots\hits can cause brain damage, destroy organs like heart, liver etc. But that happens rather rare, mostly to player's own colonists for some weird reason.
Quote from: Ambaire on June 30, 2018, 07:59:04 AM
Quote from: Boboid on June 30, 2018, 07:54:39 AMIt also incidentally reduces the player's obligation to try and save every single raider and attempt to recruit them.
Eh, I suppose. I've just thought it's a bit weird. I'd prefer a system where a wound has a chance to be instantly fatal (is there such a system already?)
QuoteYou probably could mod it to 0% but I suspect after two raids your game would spiral out of control one way or another.
How so? You don't have to capture every single one. It's really more of a time saving measure than anything else, otherwise you have to wait for them to bleed to death or hurry it up manually.
I'd like to see tranquilizer rounds or knockout darts specifically for capture purposes.
Forgive me for saying this but... the current system is exactly what you're suggesting you'd prefer...
The only difference is each time someone is
downed it has a chance to be fatal.
Your suggested system would lead to.. well... your colonists spontaneously dying because their finger was chewed on by a rabbit.
---
Let me start all over again.
Every time a
non-player human pawn is Downed (Incapacitated, wounded to the point where they can't stand due to pain or lack of legs ect) they have a chance to die outright irrespective of how lethal those wounds were.
For example if someone has both their legs blown off by a grenade they haven't technically received a fatal wound, and indeed
your pawns would always survive. Albeit with no legs. Non-player pawns however have a chance to outright die.
---
As to why it's a bad idea to mod the system down to zero well..
You'd obtain 100% of the equipment carried by raiders in an un-tainted state which completely nullifies the entire tainted equipment system which itself is part of what keeps player based crafting relevant. And also what helps keep raids from bloating your wealth.
You would also be able to recruit 100% of the downed pawns assuming you could keep them alive.. this would lead to massive population and wealth bloat that the game simply isn't designed to handle. If I have a colony of 4 people and 3 people raid me, and I save them all, I then have 7 people.. the next raid might be 4 people or 12 depending on the resulting wealth increase and in either case if I win yet again I go from 7 to either 11 or 19 people.
On the other side of the equation there's people (like myself) who might want to only recruit the absolute cream of the crop. Industrious, super immune, cannibals for example.
Given the huge increase in the availability of potential recruits I could comparatively easily fill my colony with exceptionally efficient pawns with no downsides.
These reasons (and more besides) have quite a lot of mechanical implications but arguably more importantly is that the theoretical game I've described doesn't really tell very good stories, which is one of Tynan's goals in any given rimworld playthrough.
"I exponentially increased my colony size until my CPU gave out because the game isn't designed to run on such scales" isn't exactly a great story :P
Nor is "I only play with tough, beautiful, psychopaths because that's the most efficient pawn type"
As Madman said you can certainly employ one of the many non-lethal-weapon mods.
See how you go, you might totally disagree with me and put to shame to the expression " Too much of a good thing " :P
I utterly hate the "tainted" dead man's clothing mechanic by the way. It just nullifies anything you get from raids aside from weapons. Maybe it does make sense from balance standpoint, but having to burn all apparel and armor they drop because it just uselessly takes up storage space and can't be traded for more than 00.2 silver a piece is infuriating. Especially when some bastard comes in a power armor, plays Rambo shrugging off shots for couple hours and then just dies because of several bruises denying you the spoils of his power armor, just because you've failed the dice roll of "sudden death" mechanic.
Its one of the reasons I really like Vegetable Garden mod, which at least lets you salvage apparel for textiles and armor for steel, not just burn it like garbage.
The new colony wealth requirement for centipedes in ancient ships seems to be pretty reasonable now, much better than before. ;)
Started a new game, NB (two pawn start though) Phoebe - Hard.
https://imgur.com/DC8vF0L - Got my first ancient ship (psychic) with 1 centipede (minigun) + 1 scyther at 45,320 colony wealth.
Used a Tornado Generator that I picked up from an ancient danger on the ship because I was curious.
The tornado completely destroyed the ship, damaged the mechs to about half before it dissipated. Was fun to watch.
https://imgur.com/gwF16Fg - Second ancient ship (poison) had 1 centipede (minigun) + 2 scythers at 58,329 colony wealth.
https://imgur.com/AMo8Ibh - I'm loving these caravan requests. Just what my colony needed! Jessica has asthma in both lungs, Mason has artery blockage, and Claire has a peg leg (was bitten off by thrumbo) and an arm destroyed (Serina clubbed her a little too hard trying to arrest her when she went beserk).
Edit: Also, every time my colonists got food poisoning, the cause was always unknown. =/ Was hoping to actually see more details about it.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 30, 2018, 08:30:59 AM
I utterly hate the "tainted" dead man's clothing mechanic by the way. It just nullifies anything you get from raids aside from weapons. Maybe it does make sense from balance standpoint, but having to burn all apparel and armor they drop because it just uselessly takes up storage space and can't be traded for more than 00.2 silver a piece is infuriating. Especially when some bastard comes in a power armor, plays Rambo shrugging off shots for couple and then just dies because of several bruises denying you the spoils of his power armor just because you've failed the dice roll of "sudden death" mechanic.
why do you take their clothes off to begin with though? i just burn their bodies. no need to burn clothes individually.
taint should be timed though, maybe 2 seasons. then it's all forgotten and its ok to use... that would make it somewhat balanced i think because its still punishing to save clothes - it does require resources to store it, so it's not totally "for free" and you can't get instant upgrades for your characters that way (well unless you want the debuff that goes with it)
I really liked it in earlier versions when you could loot winter apparel from raiders to survive your first winter relatively easy. However with the taint your already pissy aristocratic frontier dwellers get even more whiny now :/
While i hate it with passion, I don't use mods that just flat disable it. I am really fond of recycling it back to ingredients, which i can then use to craft my own clothing instead both for use and trade. Most mods offer a decently balanced pay off from recycling - like about 20-25% of resources from apparel. Its a good way to get small amounts of rare textiles too, like hyperweave. I wish that was implemented instead of just burning it... But oh well.
Most of all i hate armors counting towards apparel being tainted or tattered. Its purely practical thing, you wear it to keep your innards from becoming outards... and you whine that it got some holes from bullet hits from previous raid. Or a blood stain from its previous owner. Then go wash it in the rain or something. Meh.
There is working recycle mods for 1.0 already, so uh... I've been using those. I mean mods are there for a purpose and mod support in general is. Not everything should be part of the base game.
Though I also must wonder - what exactly are you supposed to do with these clothes? Bury the raiders with them? Burn them with them? That sounds relatively bad. I mean in these kinds of apocalyptic scenarios (think zombie apocalypse or nuclear war aka walking dead/fallout) you also always just use whatever the guy you just killed wore if you like it. Salvaging them for some raw materials feels pretty good tbh.
In the base game without any modded stuff, you're supposed to just burn it, along with all the clothing that got damaged enough to give pawns moodlets... Which is kind of annoying. You can't sell it, it just takes up ton of space without being useful in any way.
Quote from: Boboid on June 30, 2018, 08:19:47 AM
Forgive me for saying this but... the current system is exactly what you're suggesting you'd prefer...
The only difference is each time someone is downed it has a chance to be fatal.
Your suggested system would lead to.. well... your colonists spontaneously dying because their finger was chewed on by a rabbit.
---
Let me start all over again.
Every time a non-player human pawn is Downed (Incapacitated, wounded to the point where they can't stand due to pain or lack of legs ect) they have a chance to die outright irrespective of how lethal those wounds were.
For example if someone has both their legs blown off by a grenade they haven't technically received a fatal wound, and indeed your pawns would always survive. Albeit with no legs. Non-player pawns however have a chance to outright die.
Sorry, don't really know what I was saying there or why. What I meant to say was, I think that a certain combination of wounds should be considered fatal injuries and be untreatable regardless. It's a little weird that any injury can be patched up and bleeding stopped... that is, if you stop the bleeding before they bleed out, they're ~fine~. Raider shot through the lung or heart? If they're not dead, the wound can be magically bandaged.
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 30, 2018, 09:00:14 AM
There is working recycle mods for 1.0 already, so uh... I've been using those. I mean mods are there for a purpose and mod support in general is. Not everything should be part of the base game.
Though I also must wonder - what exactly are you supposed to do with these clothes? Bury the raiders with them? Burn them with them? That sounds relatively bad. I mean in these kinds of apocalyptic scenarios (think zombie apocalypse or nuclear war aka walking dead/fallout) you also always just use whatever the guy you just killed wore if you like it. Salvaging them for some raw materials feels pretty good tbh.
In its defense though, you can wear it with a rather slight debuff.. and that makes perfect sense too, you'd probably only wear clothes from a corpse because you have to (and you would probably not be 100% ok with it), if you can make new clothes you'll absolutely prefer to wear that (and eventually you can create new clothes, buy new clothes). I think people get a little bit too caught up about the mood perhaps, its nice when they're 100% happy i guess, but you're also supposed to just balance it, they dont NEED to be 100% happy to survive. I used tattered clothes in my last play, and it was fine (i used it in the start).
Is not recycling too powerful? Constantly spend and constantly make! This is rimworld.
Of course I want to use legendary items for a long time. However, what I have felt playing for a long time is that if it is more than 'good', the actual use experience is similar.
Still, if you are looking for the balance, if the cost of repair and time is higher than the cost of production, there will be room to worry about. Efforts are needed to repair legendary items.
Since the story of the mod came out, I am more than welcome to join the convenience mods vanilla.
I know that Tynan is deeply concerned about joining the mods. That's because it gives you a completely different game experience and you want to leave it in the player's choice.
But I want you to add a few more mods you need without hurting player's experience. Convenience mod, not content.
1.Free Input
If you are not an English user, you will not be able to change the name of your drug or dress policy to your own language. The mode that solves it.
2.Don't Stop the Music
The mod that music continues.
3.Better Workbench Management
Many things have been added to the game, but I hope the name change part is also in.
No one was talking about repairing items, we were talking about recycling tainted apparel back into materials, which we can later use to craft new items. Though i guess ability to repair at least legendary items with some history behind them would be nice even if it made to cost several times more than initial crafting. Its way more sad to watch legendaries degrade now that they're more of a rarity and a memorable items.
The discussion about recyle is very old, since we can smelt weapon's.
But Tynan and the dev team never add this feature, so they have their reason's we didn't understand.
And about legendary items. Just think where are these legendary item's at real life ? Behind vitrines of some collector's or museum, barely noone use these.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 30, 2018, 09:06:15 AM
In the base game without any modded stuff, you're supposed to just burn it, along with all the clothing that got damaged enough to give pawns moodlets... Which is kind of annoying. You can't sell it, it just takes up ton of space without being useful in any way.
I never had to burn a single piece of clothing, at first I would just stash raiders bodies in a mass open grave and let them (and besides that you can just bury them clothed). At some point later struggling for food I had some raiders turn into kibble, at which case I just stash the used clothes in open terrain to rot as well. And even then, playing on Randy/Phoebe, the influx of raiders were so low that it rarely matter.
The issue was that people would just get a hefty income supply from the constant raiding: raiders walk in your death trap = free money stuff with barely no risk. I like how it is now, its a Rimworld and shouldn't have tons of suicidal raider people.
Quote from: Ambaire on June 30, 2018, 09:13:44 AM
Sorry, don't really know what I was saying there or why. What I meant to say was, I think that a certain combination of wounds should be considered fatal injuries and be untreatable regardless. It's a little weird that any injury can be patched up and bleeding stopped... that is, if you stop the bleeding before they bleed out, they're ~fine~. Raider shot through the lung or heart? If they're not dead, the wound can be magically bandaged.
But there are a fair number of injuries that can be fatal, namely damage to critical organs: heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, brain, spine. And even then if you don't hurt critical organs, they may still die from being just too roughed up, excessive bleeding, or even just give up on life, reached zero conscious.
I really like how detail that system is, and already had a pawn in current play, die instantaneously from liver damage. But still they more often than not have a good chance to survive.
Quote from: Serina on June 30, 2018, 08:32:54 AM
The new colony wealth requirement for centipedes in ancient ships seems to be pretty reasonable now, much better than before. ;)
Started a new game, NB (two pawn start though) Phoebe - Hard.
https://imgur.com/DC8vF0L - Got my first ancient ship (psychic) with 1 centipede (minigun) + 1 scyther at 45,320 colony wealth.
https://imgur.com/gwF16Fg - Second ancient ship (poison) had 1 centipede (minigun) + 2 scythers at 58,329 colony wealth.
Did they tweak that even more?
Last time I got them a couple patches back it was pretty brutal, 1 centipede, 2 scythers, 3 lancers. Before that I had one with 3 centipedes of which 1 had a rocket launcher.
I think it would be around a similar wealth value, but I'll check the next time it happens.
Quote from: Madman666 on June 30, 2018, 10:22:48 AM
Though i guess ability to repair at least legendary items with some history behind them would be nice even if it made to cost several times more than initial crafting. Its way more sad to watch legendaries degrade now that they're more of a rarity and a memorable items.
I wonder how those
legendary items deteriorate
so quickly upon usage. Tynan said they are supposed to be told for decades, while they're disappearing with a year. Max hit points of apparel must be dependent on quality.
My masterwork plasteel plate armor has been gone through hell and back and so has its user and I've had it for four years and it's still only at 75%. Perhaps there's a difference between legendary flak vests and legendary power armor but rest assured, my masterwork gear are still kicking. I probably need to play 20 years for them to fully deteriorate.
It does get an HP hit, when its wearer gets shot. So it depends on how often you stick its wearer under fire...
Gift - since you're having a hard time, we'll help you out
Cloth tuque (normal)
The new gift mechanic is great in concept, not in execution.
Quote from: Boboid on June 30, 2018, 12:48:54 AM
Oh it's unquestionably exploiting the fact that the AI tries to find cover before opening fire. If it didn't that one guy with a bolt action rifle would've made my life hell.. Which is why I shot him with a charge lance at the start. I've done similar raids where the enemy has had 2-3 sniper rifles, it plays out the same because of the massive windup on the rifles.
As to pawn quality.. It's 5 years in a game where I've only recruited transhumanists with the intention of giving everyone a crapload of bionics. The result is that everyone does a LOT of shooting and work so they all end up being quite high quality.
https://imgur.com/a/AmntBkl
Another thing to point, I agree that this is more of a problem with AI than needing to nerf anything else. I've found more often than not weird AI in which enemy pawns would leave their defensive positions (behind sandbags, in range of turrets) to chase my pawns in the open field and be hopelessly killed. At which point I can just long range kill the turrets.
On one side it makes raiding hostile more feasible, on another it means bad tactical AI. However AI is difficulty to design and fine tune, but hopefully the devs are aware of that.
[attachment deleted due to age]
So I don't know how I could have missed this, it's quite the error:
Reinstalling furniture falls under basic but UNINSTALLING furniture falls under Construction.
EDIT: Also, is it just me, or is everything deep drilled a bunch of slate chunks? I am seriously hurting for proper granite, but barring mining the entire mountain, why is everything drilled slate chunks? Even drilling on granite floors gets me slate chunks. I think this needs a serious rework.
Hello, a somewhat new player, already with thousands of hours logged, love this game.
I've only been playing tribals on 1.0 and haven't been able to progress much, so I don't have much to say about most of the changes since I haven't been able to reach most of them or have encountered them yet.
But one thing I wanted to mention is that since this is 1.0, some things that are "overlooked" should probably be mentioned, one of those things is that there is no way to see the stats of a weapon in-game until you already have made one. Is there a way to change that? To give the base stats of a normal quality weapon so you can compare and decide what might suit you better?
Forced slowdown on every mortar shot is cancer.
Ive noticed that the people I rescue from escape pods will get up and leave the very moment they are capable of walking again. This happened in the beta as well, and was wondering if this is intentional.
8 times out of 10 the end result is the rescued person will get up before I can feed them, and due to their severe injuries gimping their movement speed, they will pass out long before reaching the edge of the map.
In one case I had to place an emergency medical sleep spot at the location of the passed out person three times before they were able to leave the map. In this case I had to feed them each time, but their age and injuries were so harsh that their hunger bar drained three times for that journey.
Shouldn't they at least wait until they can move properly rather than at all?
At least then when I use my medical supplies rescuing someone they can make it off the map on their own.
Started a new game at the same time as my second post. Made it to mid-late game at this point going to summarize some notes
-> I finally figurd out how to take penox on caravans. You have to use drug schedules. Perhaps there should be a way to organize this without such a roundabout solution.
-> What's the point of yorkies? They seem outright worse than everything considering they don't seem to even hunt rats. Maybe increased nuzzle rate to make them worth keeping around? Also I think terriers are a bit more omnivorous than many dogs. Maybe having them able to eat certain wild plants like berries might be a buff?
->Had a bug after removing a waterwheel. Power lines stayed down underneath where the whaterwheel was, not where conduits were. Didn't seem to be functional just present in the power overlay.
->Autoturret doesn't show min range when placing now? It used to when they first came out and I was first building them.
->Inspirations seem to be more common later in the game as colonists become more skilled. Might be confirmation bias but I like that trend
->Cocoa trees take foooorever to grow/plant. I was worried yield would be low but I'm not doing terribly for choco after a couple yields. Also, if we have cocoa trees and iirc yayo is supposed to be cocaine, maybe a change in the production line? Could also add a cooking recipe to turn cocoa into chocolate.
->I had a drop pod lancer raid land in my sleeping quarters. Everyone got out with ample time thanks to the delay, except my dog which didn't wake up from the impact and I couldn't micro out. I think that drop pods should wake things up same as bullet impacts.
->This isn't clear. My colonist has a massive smokeleaf tolerance, does the consciousness hit also get reduced to 25%? It seems like the full hit is being calculated even with the massive tolerance.
->I'm having trouble finding uses for mortars. Half of this is because I've discovered how useful melee pawns are. Half of it is how often I spend pawns and resources on mortars and have them do nothing but friendly fire even ranged pawns. Idk how to fix that but I have a lot of trouble getting good use out of mortars. EMP mortars that generally don't friendly fire are the exception.
->Burning ticks off armor like an impact? I like the visual feedback, I don't think the fire is swinging in with a bat though
->I like the no shooting in melee, I think it's pretty silly it also applies for objects like drop ships.
->Colonists choose to sow trees even when large numbers of faster sowing crops need to be done. This is definitely open for debate but I figure trees should be lower prio same way deconstruct is lower prio than construct.
->I had an infestation that didn't spawn megaspiders until I hit the hives, thinking I had cleared it all out. I also noticed the hives were about 2 days from reproducing instead of like 6, which is why I bothered hitting them in the first place. Is this intentional? If so, nice.
->Moving deep drills is difficult because you have to unforbid them but in doing so you enable miners to reserve them and dig chunks you probably don't want. Perhaps they should be automatically powered off instead of forbidden?
->I do think it would be reasonable to lower the range of the heavy charge blaster on centipedes. I had a big bastion defense set up against them but in the end I had to take massive casualties to move most of my weaponry forward into shooting range, which basically meant I was doing the standard strategy except without ample preparation. This makes me kind of not want to worry about defenses at all, since the biggest threat can easily avoid them.
Edit: I almost forgot, armor seems like it's in a good place. Flak is good against things up to heavy charge blaster and charge lance, at which point they still occasionally block shots. Made some platemail for the tribal raids and my pawn was downed only with bruises.
It's really nice being able to see after the fight all the times your pawn was saved by armor. Having a medic with three bruises that can still tend is great. Before they mightve just had one big bleedy wound and you wouldn't have even known armor blocked 2.
Storytime!
Just a short one. Once again I had to start over due to semi-corrupted save (it's not actually corrupted just EdB Prepare Carefully isn't working anymore since .1950 and you cannot remove the mod from an existing save).
Tribal, Temperate Forest, Large Hills, River
First trader caravan appears, a pirate trader with a slave "Walls" who is the mother of my researcher. I can't afford her, since she is 1800 silver and I just started out, plus she has bad stats and traits despite being the most expensive (wtf?). Worse yet, she is 43 and her son 41.
Okay, well, can't do nothing about it.
A few days later a trade caravan from the same faction came, now Walls was the LEADER of the caravan and not a slave anymore. And the caravan is a combat supplier. Damn, that must be one heck of a woman. From slave to caravan leader and also abolishing slavery as a whole just to ascend her caravan to combat suppliers.
Quote from: erdrik on June 30, 2018, 01:16:49 PM
Ive noticed that the people I rescue from escape pods will get up and leave the very moment they are capable of walking again. This happened in the beta as well, and was wondering if this is intentional.
Shouldn't they at least wait until they can move properly rather than at all?
At least then when I use my medical supplies rescuing someone they can make it off the map on their own.
I believe this has been mentioned by others as well, and I agree that it would be nice if the rescued pawns waited until they were in better health before they attempt to exit the map.
Since I typically only play tundra biome, I usually can't rescue pawns unless it's summer because they end up succumbing to hypothermia outside after trying to get up and leave asap, unless they happen to be geared for the weather.
Edit: Lol, Walls the slave turned caravan leader sounds awesome.
I sent 3 elephants with one pawn to rescue someone calling for help. Once I was on place, I was ambushed by 2 scythers. I kicked their butts, packed them on elephant and happily left. My pawn has 15 skill in plants. She should forage just enough to not be malnutritioned. But, I see, that only wounded woman is getting all the food from foraging, every tick. Why they don't split food? They would be still hungry but no one would be dying.
Was safe distance for shooting removed? Or it never existed? I put SMG shooter just behind mace wielder and stood in doors, fending off manhunter chinchillas. Somehow, with last remaining chinchilla, melee pawn was shot to death. Shooter got "killed colonist" debuff.
I read that you fixed pawns moving through pawns, but animals are still able to move through and attack from behind. As a prove, my third attempt.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1427517048
BUG: A pawn assigned to construction who is trying to mine a smoothed stone wall will stop mining it and start repairing it.
I think the initial plant gen needs to be turned up a little. Forest biomes look like they are recovering from toxic fallout on spawn. Specifically temperate. Arid biome runs out of trees within days, which is rough on a tribal start. The Mohave desert is full of trees, just not big ones.
Some thoughts about security buildings after some testing:
1)It would be nice if colonists auto-rearmed turrets when below a decent threshold. Just glanced at my turrets during peacetime and one was sitting at 24/120 barrel durability. 50% feels right to me
2)It would be nice to have the damage/reload cost for the turrets to be displayed somewhere on the turret. I was generally continuing to use mostly miniturrets because of the high rearm cost of cannons; however, according to the xml the cannons do 4.8x the damage so it looks like the cannons actually are more efficient.
Trees in general are kind of a disaster for the moment. Legendary growers (20lvl) spend like two hours if not more to plant a poplar or two. Tree greenhouses are also totally a thing (https://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/AX0mJIghqsrkmx2hQt5qEg/o.jpg), so I don't really think that no-roof restriction should be there.
My feedback, on the game I'm currently playing (15+ hours):
-I'm playing in arid shrubland: beavers come so often and in such great numbers that the map is always empty of trees, so it makes it feel equal to the desert biome. Plus beavers in the desert looks not so coherent IMO.
-The new automatic blueprints: if I start a scenario with some advanced buildings I haven't researched yet, I shouldn't be able to auto-blueprint them once destroyed since I had them because of the scenario but not because I knew how to build them. This makes you to protect those buildings at all costs until you have researched them (I don't know if this is actually happening but it was the case with a mod in the b18).
-Slaughterer Mental Break: This feels like unavoidable damage sometimes, at least the animals should have a chance to defend themselves.
-A quests tab / log in the world map would be useful, so I don't have to filter letters and read each one and jump to location to see the days I have left, etc.
well i'm playing tribal mode so I haven't got to the really new stuff yet and I really enjoy that you cannot make silver so fast like before because now you have to make gifts. Build 1.0 is looking awesome, thanks for everything Tynan and team.
EDIT: also the forbid/unforbid buttons on the orders tab look confusing, like they are inverted
First time posting. And I've gotta say i love how proactive you are Tynan, its refreshing to see a game developer put so much time and effort (transparently).
I have a few bugs, a suggestion given 1.0, and a meta 'issue'
Hilarious bug #1
I was building a mountain base and decided to try out the 'smooth wall' feature. Love it, its great and looks good. However I found that I mistakenly made a room too small so i decided to mine away a wall section. My slowest miner says "i got this" and would start mining it. He wouldn't get all the way through and would stop for lunch. During his lunch break my most industrious of constructors would come in and see the wall and go "hey that should be repaired" and would repair it back to full before my minor got back from eating. I didn't realize they kept doing this for TWO DAYS, when i wondered why the wall wasn't gone yet. Maybe set a flag so a mined wall cant be repaired.
Hilarious bug #2 (might not be 1.0 related).
I had two stacks of food that were both 5. At the exact same time two of my haulers decided "hey those should be stacked" and each went to the other stack, picked it up, moved it to where the other stack was, put it down. (Queue Benny Hill) Then, realizing there was a stack of 5 and 5 again said "hey these should be stacked"...and they repeated this until i stopped one of them. Was quite entertaining
Suggestion (probably been suggested before)
Since the change for dirty to tainted clothing, and that you cant sell them to traders, the only thing you can do with them is burn them. On the one hand i get the point about modifying the economy. On the immersion point i think it would make more sense to at least make the clothing break-down-able into their base components (with adjustments for synth/hyper/devil so it doesnt get OP) so they could be re-crafted. Alternatively you could make the Tainted flag be a temporary thing depending on material. Alternatively Alternatively make it a chance for something to be tainted on death.
Meta
I noticed with relationships that its possible for a 35 year old man to have two sons that are 45 and 47 (none had a number in parenthesis, so it was their actual ages).
I also noticed a 15 year old boy could be married to a 75 year old woman (who crash landed as a relationship escape pod).
I captured an enemy raider with the "sickly" trait.
It was a very close fight so my doctors were badly injured and I had to bring many colonists back from the brink of death (going so far as to just tending a few wounds then going to the next colonist so neither would bleed out).
Well that raider had just burns, nothing bleeding so he could wait.
While tending that guy... despite my non-doctor keeping his room clean (remember, he wasn't bleeding) that guy got 8 infections. Literally half my medicine was swallowed by the infections AS HE WAS TENDED. How it works is that if someone is getting tended and he gets an infection that infection will get the "bandage" instead of the wound. I barely made progress on the guy because literally every toe got an infection of it's own.
Hilarious.
A small suggestion about apparel quality. I seem to remember at some point in one of Alpha builds clothing had comfort stats depending on its quality. I think it would be really nice to add some comfort for excellent-masterwork-legendary clothing.
Mainly because other kinds of legendary items offer really distinct and useful advantages (more blocking for armor, more rest effectiveness for beds, more beauty for art, more accuracy wor weapons), while clothing does not. I mean it does offer a slightly increased comfortable temperature offsets and also gets a bonus to armor rating, but both of those are of questionable use. It won't ever be a proper armor to count on it blocking shots and regular quality temperature offsets are enough to not bother with better quality apparel.
It should really be advantageous to try and outfit your guys in comfy clothing. So that if you outfit your people in a excellent set of clothing they should get "comfortable" moodlet, masterwork - "very comfortable", legendary - "extremely comfortable". It will definitely help keeping some whiners a bit more happy, while not disturbing balance too much, since its not easy to get those levels of quality consistently. Some of colonists are already getting those moodlets anyway by spending their days behind a crafting bench on a good chair.
Also one more thing to fix would be that crazy move pawns now often use in melee - "kick some dirt in someone's eye". It adds a debuff to sight -50%, but it makes them cooldown ridiculous amount of time, like good 10-15 seconds. Someone did already mention that, but i shall remind about it again. It leaves a pawn completely stuck in place, vulnerable to being just clobbered or shot to death without any possible way to survive. Please disable this fatality, mortal combat cries silently in the corner.
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 30, 2018, 05:45:18 PM
I captured an enemy raider with the "sickly" trait.
It was a very close fight so my doctors were badly injured and I had to bring many colonists back from the brink of death (going so far as to just tending a few wounds then going to the next colonist so neither would bleed out).
Well that raider had just burns, nothing bleeding so he could wait.
While tending that guy... despite my non-doctor keeping his room clean (remember, he wasn't bleeding) that guy got 8 infections. Literally half my medicine was swallowed by the infections AS HE WAS TENDED. How it works is that if someone is getting tended and he gets an infection that infection will get the "bandage" instead of the wound. I barely made progress on the guy because literally every toe got an infection of it's own.
Hilarious.
Believe it or not, infections is the number one or two concern of burn victims because the burned tissue is extremely ineffective at killing microbes.
Hay deteriorates way too quickly outdoors. I should be able to keep animals outdoors and feed them without the entire hay bale deteriorating before they can eat it. It should deteriorate very slowly anyway unless it's raining and having a roof over it should greatly reduce its deterioration rate.
I think a serious bug happened to me twice on the latest version. Pawn is melee attacking someone, and sometimes gets locked into cooldown for too long (not stunned) for no reason. The transparent white circle indicating cooldown fills the selection square for the pawn, and this takes a long time until it shrinks to a circle.
Pawn was attacking with a club, and its usual attacks had much faster cooldown.
Quote from: robno on June 30, 2018, 06:24:02 PM
Pawn is melee attacking someone, and sometimes gets locked into cooldown for too long (not stunned) for no reason.
That's the 'kick dirt into eyes' maneuver, which has a very long cooldown. I dislike the dirt kicking exactly because it locks your colonist into one place for a very long time, which basically dooms them to an ugly fate - not so much the case in my run since I'm well into the late-game, but certainly could be in the earlier game.
Is that really a thing? Because I had a pawn do this to a centipede...
Romancing in the early days of the colony seems stuck in a cycle ATM.
My colony started out with an elderly male and an elderly female. It's been 6 days since Crash-Landing and he's been rebuffed by her 5 times. It seems to be tied to Deep Talk somehow, as the number of Deep Talks equals the number of Rebuffs. The problem is it also provides my male with a whopping -20 moodlet and I don't see any way of preventing that without completely separating them.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I just got my first trade ship, and noticed an inconsistency between trade window and caravan formation. In Unstable version 1.0, when we form a caravan, the new update allows the player to see bonded animals with a heart and pregnant females with a baby. But the trade window didn't show me the same "heart". I think it should.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on June 30, 2018, 07:16:46 PM
I just got my first trade ship, and noticed an inconsistency between trade window and caravan formation. In Unstable version 1.0, when we form a caravan, the new update allows the player to see bonded animals with a heart and pregnant females with a baby. But the trade window didn't show me the same "heart". I think it should.
After gifting a bonded pet to a trader and getting -10 mood for 60 days, I agree with this suggestion ;) If not a heart, a similar message to the one you get after designating a bonded animal for butchering?
Quote from: Madman666 on June 30, 2018, 04:57:28 PM
... Tree greenhouses are also totally a thing (https://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/AX0mJIghqsrkmx2hQt5qEg/o.jpg), so I don't really think that no-roof restriction should be there.
Unless Tree greenhouses can produce trees large and numerous enough to be viable as
Timber rather than fruit farms then I kinda disagree.
Trees not growable inside is fine.
What bothers me more is the incredibly long sow-time for wood-yielding trees. I think for cocoa it's perfectly reasonable, because it's a luxury item, but for poplar/oak trees it's a bit too long. Don't get me wrong, it was too short before 1.0, but now it's too much work. Maybe something around 20-30% faster would make it a lot more bearable.
Hello, I have decided to go for the 1.0 unstable, and thus far I am thoroughly enjoying it. The game is much more seamless, and the characters seem to have individual quarks that are much more pronounced. The addition of the watermill is very welcome, though it is a somewhat overpowered device that effectively cancels's out alternative energy sources on river-based maps. The collection of furs into broader archetypes makes the use of furs much more efficient, my colony is practically living off trade in furs and fur clothing at the moment in a way that reminds of the historical trappers in Quebec. I am thinking of building an entire room for electric clothing machines since I have quite a lot of characters with a high craft score (but no art) and others that are particularly good at hunting.
1) I have noticed a tendency of my characters to stop activities, such as mining a square, before those actions were complete to go and do secondary tasks such as hulling or cleaning. Directly controlling work priorities solves this problem in terms of competing for work requirements, but in general, I have noticed that characters seem to be more independent and less inclined to complete their assignments. Entertainment, in particular, seems to be required quite often, though less so in earlier builds of 1.0.
2) Fights break out between my characters somewhat annoyingly often... practically every day, even though the characters aren't volatile. As far as I can tell, one character is typically the cause of these fights because he is ugly, and the other characters openly object to his ugliness, and he takes affront to this slander. He has been insulted so much that I have had to deal with periodical character breaks, as the insults along with consistent injuries and his pessimism trait create a vicious cycle.
3) I have noticed a few instances in which traders arrived, but the individual responsible for the actual transactions was injured and arrived much later then the rest of his caravan. I could still trade with him, but it was rather odd, and I wondered if traders face attacks or something that might actually kill the main trader.
4) I have mentioned this elsewhere. In my current colony, I built a fortification system around a tunneled out hill using a double layer of sandbags. I wanted my characters to use the tunnels through the hill to quickly move between different sections of the defensive works, or take cover inside the tunnels if an enemy uses bombs, but the characters prefer to jump over the sandbags, exposing them to potentially lethal firepower.
5) I am not sure if it was an intended event or actually a bug, but in my current game, I opened up an ancient danger building straight away but found no hostiles. The three humans were friendly (until I shot them) and the bugs likewise didn't attack me. I actually started a habit of bringing in the bodies of raiders into the sealed sleeper pod chamber to feed my bug "friends", until I decided I needed the room as a barracks and a temporary food supply while most of my characters were indisposed.
Those are the things I can think about for the moment. I will be sure to post further anomalies on this thread should I encounter them.
Quote from: IGN_Whyt on June 30, 2018, 05:29:04 PM
Suggestion (probably been suggested before)
Since the change for dirty to tainted clothing, and that you cant sell them to traders, the only thing you can do with them is burn them. On the one hand i get the point about modifying the economy. On the immersion point i think it would make more sense to at least make the clothing break-down-able into their base components (with adjustments for synth/hyper/devil so it doesnt get OP) so they could be re-crafted. Alternatively you could make the Tainted flag be a temporary thing depending on material. Alternatively Alternatively make it a chance for something to be tainted on death.
The Mending Mod was very effective for this. It was a work sink, not economic, but removed the taint and repaired the item. Should have more requirements for using materials and whatnot, but at minimum removing the taint should be possible. Even recycling or breaking down like said above.
Or hell, how about a washboard and basin do clean away the taint?
Quote from: IGN_Whyt on June 30, 2018, 05:29:04 PM
... i think it would make more sense to at least make the clothing break-down-able into their base components (with adjustments for synth/hyper/devil so it doesnt get OP) so they could be re-crafted. ...
While I am for recyclable apparel, I think a good balance compromise would be that it always returns a version of the "Patchwork Leather"("Patchwork Leather" for leather based apparel, and "Patchwork Cloth" for Cloth(including the synthreads, ect..) or Wool based apparel). That way you would always be able to turn tainted clothes into something usable or even sell it off, but it won't ever be as good as just making something new from scratch.
Is there any way to befriend an enemy in 1.0 other than waiting for peace talks/ prisoners? I'm finding it difficult to bring this faction over to neutral: sending a caravan gives the text "attacking X" when I make the initial waypoint. Can I still gift them when I reach there or am I wasting my time moving over there?
Edit: The comms message suggests I can gift at their town. This makes the journey message a bit confusing.
@Greep yes you can reach their colony and gift them stuff or just drop pod stuff.
I'm a mediocre player on Cassandra extra hard, using reloads to avoid restarting when I wipe due to lack of game knowledge.
The rationale behind the increase in raider death rate was that incapacitated refugee quests were now more viable as a form of recruitment.
Some feedback on those quests and a related bug:
Mid game, 10 pawns, not too much research, but nice self sufficient base, bolt action rifles, pistols, machine pistols, flak vests and pants.
Incapacitated refugee quest, guarded by manhunter pack.
So far, I've had good luck against manhunter packs, giving all the starting armor and a thrumbofur duster / thrumbo horn to a decent melee and standing in doors, shooting over his shoulder. He effectively tanked packs of grizzly bears and foxes. He also kills unarmored raiders very effectively.
So I send my best melee, another decent armored melee and a good shooter with a machine pistol to rescue the refugee, thinking I'm sending a lot of combat power. It certainly would make it a lot harder for me to defend my base, having those guys gone.
Needless to say, they're not even close to being able to handle a pack of 8ish elk with blunt attacks, with no reachable choke point. That's why I'm using reloads; it's very, very easy to die while caravaning, unless you have the meta knowledge of having faced that situation before.
There's no way I'm killing the elk, even with save scumming. I can't send more people or my colony would be too weak to defend itself.
They run faster than me, I can't kite them and kill them, but it turns out you can kite them to a corner of the map, exit the map, then immediately zone back in some where else. It's possible to do this repeatedly and reliably grab the refugee and escape while the other characters distract, although it may take a while and I had to reload many deaths before I got the timing down.
Now the bugs come in. First time I saved the refugee, two characters had left the encounter map and the character who was rescuing the refugee was the last one on the map. As he exited the map it said "Caravan Lost", and the refugee was lost with it. The character himself rejoined the others safely, but the refugee was somehow deleted from the game. Seems like a bug.
Next time I carried the refugee to the edge of the map, but made sure my other characters were still on the encounter map before trying to carry her off. For some reason she was inexplicably dropped at the edge of the map, just as the character exited. However I was then able to zone back onto the map and carry her off.
In later attempts, I was able to carry her off the map successfully by making sure the two other characters not carrying her zoned back into the encounter map before the character rescuing her exited.
I'm not sure if it matters or not, but it may related to whether I was "capturing" her or "carrying" her, both options popped up at different times.
Balance feedback: It seems like either this is meant to be a late game option where you could bring overwhelming force or you are meant to have meta game knowledge of cheesy kiting tactics or you are meant to save scum.
Frankly, it still doesn't seem to be on par with the part of the game that takes place in your base, in terms of balance and polish. Without save scumming or serious meta knowledge, caravan quests are still a good way to die quickly.
Speaking of save scumming: Now that you can't shoot in melee, predator attacks feel like a pretty poor mechanic; you just have to remember to keep checking the animals tab and sending out manual hit squads and there is essentially zero risk, but if you forget about this routine task, it's easy to have a very random death with little recourse.
Apparently there are quality of life mods that address this by giving an alert, those could be coded in, but an alternative would be to allow the use of a few small weapons like knives (and maybe pistols) as sidearms, while also increasing the melee DPS of rifles and shotguns, which are, after all, commonly used as effective clubs. Also, making it so slowdown only happens when a blow hits and does damage. Even if it's good for specialist snipers to be vulnerable, characters who both have good ranged and melee skills seem overly vulnerable, just because they can't do much and rifles have terrible melee dps on par with a revolver(!).
It's probably too late for bayonets but it's worth considering that muskets really took off in popularity when they became effective melee weapons.
The game feels pretty good in a lot of respects right now, I like the armor system, I like how melee is useful, but shooters do seem overly helpless at times, which kind of encourages you to try and limit your fights to base defense scenarios where you can use a few melee "tanks" to hold doors. It's fine to say that a melee should be able to beat a ranged if he can close in, but a guy with a rifle who also has good melee skill is effectively tied up by an untrained person who closes to melee range, that seems questionable.
His DPS is higher while unarmed than while he has a bolt action rifle equipped!!!
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on June 30, 2018, 10:53:34 PM
@Greep yes you can reach their colony and gift them stuff or just drop pod stuff.
This doesn't appear to be true anymore if it was in the past. I caravaned to them and it automatically attacked them and reduced relations 50 more xD
And this is what I get on trying to move there again:
Actually this could be due to being incapable of social. In any case this should give a warning if you're just going to autoattack in that case.
[attachment deleted due to age]
It seems like the best way to make friends in 1.0 is to gift your would-be-friends smokeleaf joints :D. And people say drugs do nothing good.
Quote from: ChJees on July 01, 2018, 12:37:22 AM
It seems like the best way to make friends in 1.0 is to gift your would-be-friends smokeleaf joints :D. And people say drugs do nothing good.
I have a strict no-drugs policy and lock all my drugs in a forbidden room, specifically for purposes of gifting. Those potheads on the other side of the lake LOVE me!
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 30, 2018, 02:25:59 PM
Storytime!
Just a short one. Once again I had to start over due to semi-corrupted save (it's not actually corrupted just EdB Prepare Carefully isn't working anymore since .1950 and you cannot remove the mod from an existing save).
Tribal, Temperate Forest, Large Hills, River
First trader caravan appears, a pirate trader with a slave "Walls" who is the mother of my researcher. I can't afford her, since she is 1800 silver and I just started out, plus she has bad stats and traits despite being the most expensive (wtf?). Worse yet, she is 43 and her son 41.
Okay, well, can't do nothing about it.
A few days later a trade caravan from the same faction came, now Walls was the LEADER of the caravan and not a slave anymore. And the caravan is a combat supplier. Damn, that must be one heck of a woman. From slave to caravan leader and also abolishing slavery as a whole just to ascend her caravan to combat suppliers.
I laughed for a while at this one!
So I played a lot lately and improved my skills. I was finally able to make decent progress on NB, Extreme Randy, arid biome start. Randy is easier than the other two storytellers.
I start on a road, not too far from a friendly outlander settlement, so that I can buy medicine. This can be done very early because male elephants drop valuable tusks. This also lets me afford some decent weapons. It is much easier to get weapons in this way than researching and building them on my own (I'm tempted to say that the do it yourself to approach is only a last resort). It is also much better to buy a television than to research and build it myself.
Short bows are a must in a NB start. It is a little frustrating that short bows require 2 crafting and that raising crafting isn't easy in the beginning now that cutting stone blocks doesn't give crafting experience (maybe it should give experience until level 4 or something). A short bow enables hunting without high risk of retaliation. Hunting is a must because berries are scarce and won't feed more than 1-2 colonists.
Caravan requests can be very rewarding but are often not fulfillable and sometimes not worth the time because I simply do not need the reward.
I found prisoner rescue missions to be much harder raids, with such high risk that they aren't worth attempting. Based on a low sample size, the number of enemies in this kind of mission is about twice the number of colonists I have and they are well armed, and my side will lack the advantage of fortifications.
During my last attempt, I was able to build a nice air conditioned granite fortress, with stone floors and six colonists (I was picky in who I let in, and raiders die a lot now).
In the end my colony succumbed to a combination of a strong pirate raid with poorly planned defenses resulting in several deaths. A few days later a poison ship I had been ignoring started affecting my crops and I felt like I had little choice but to attack. I totally underestimated the mechanoids and they killed everyone. This was at about 20k wealth.
(https://i.imgur.com/0cUXLws.png)
That doesn't make any bit of sense. If this person spent his life scavenging through wreckages to find interesting stuff, then WHY THE HELL CAN'T HE HAUL!?
There are a lot of backgrounds that disable hauling in this game and most of them don't make any lick of sense at all. Before we wrap a package on this game can we dial back the amount of disabled hauling that occurs in characters? It should really only be for health reasons that these pawns can't haul. EX: Bad Back!
Can I suggest increasing the reward from outpost quests a bit? There are two outposts that have spawned near me since the latest update, with 14/15 enemies, and the rewards for these are 500 silver/28 luciferium. Those aren't remotely worth the risk, especially as 15 enemies is much harder when you're attacking and they're defending. I would honestly expect about 5x those rewards for that level of risk.
Quote from: Tynan on July 01, 2018, 02:30:21 AM
Quote from: Syrchalis on June 30, 2018, 02:25:59 PM
Storytime!
Just a short one. Once again I had to start over due to semi-corrupted save (it's not actually corrupted just EdB Prepare Carefully isn't working anymore since .1950 and you cannot remove the mod from an existing save).
Tribal, Temperate Forest, Large Hills, River
First trader caravan appears, a pirate trader with a slave "Walls" who is the mother of my researcher. I can't afford her, since she is 1800 silver and I just started out, plus she has bad stats and traits despite being the most expensive (wtf?). Worse yet, she is 43 and her son 41.
Okay, well, can't do nothing about it.
A few days later a trade caravan from the same faction came, now Walls was the LEADER of the caravan and not a slave anymore. And the caravan is a combat supplier. Damn, that must be one heck of a woman. From slave to caravan leader and also abolishing slavery as a whole just to ascend her caravan to combat suppliers.
I laughed for a while at this one!
I sense a new article for Rock paper shittyjournalism - "Game developer laughs at slavery". Just in time for 1.0 too!
I am playing Extreme Randy NB again. 20 days in, I get a mission to destroy an outpost. At this point I have one colonist, and the outpost has 4 enemies and presumably several turrets. The reward is an AI persona core for which I have no use at this time. I don't think I could realistically win this even if my colonist had amazing combat stats. With excellent equipment and good skills it would be possible but still risky.
This is just one example but it's representative of my experience with destroy outpost and rescue pawn missions. It could be that later in the game they are worth doing but in the early game they clearly aren't.
New build. Bring on the theorycrafting experience-based stories and feedback! Thanks for all given so far, it's very useful. We've got a lot of tasks we're still working through.
----
Hive killed insect jelly 100 -> 60.
Alphabeaver hunger rate 6.0->4.5.
Turrets research cost 400 -> 300.
Door health 250 -> 140.
Shotgun armor penetration 6%->9%.
Fix: Non-square buildings with defaultPlacingRot east or west draw with distorted proportions on the menu.
Hydroponics can now be built on bridges. Set hydroponics basin def direction back to same as B18 (it points the way it faces) and use defaultPlacingRot=east to make it align visually with the benches in the menu.
Basic work type now starts active for everyone.
Fix: Tribals can build chess table.
Clarify penoxycyline.
Rebalance: Infections less likely at low tend quality and more likely at high tend quality.
RaidBeacon endgame sequence threat frequency now scales with difficulty.
Adjusted crafting quality output to produce better and less random results.
Changed quality gen data output from text to table.
Shift various ranged weapons' firing delays a somewhat from warmup into cooldown to reduce cheese and counterbalance not being able to use them in melee.
Fix: One explosion is not enough to detonate artillery shells.
Made non-mech factions a bit more common in late game raids.
Hydroponics fertility 230% -> 280%.
Made outdoors need a bit stricter.
Rename trait Tunneler -> Indoorsman.
Rearrange research layout a bit.
Adjust animal skill gain rate from tame/train down a bit now that it's repeatable.
Ship startup sequence raid frequency reduced a little bit.
Reduced ship advanced components costs.
Fix: Food poison cause unknown not translated. Some XML cleanup.
Rename ultratech medicine -> glitterworld medicine
Balanced some bionics and archotech body parts a bit.
SoOoOo..
Tried to launch a ship on day 453 with 309k total wealth and 9 (bionic'd up the wazoo) transhumanist colonists on V-hard. (Switched from Hard on about day 300 when I was well ahead of the raids)
I was a bit concerned that my wealth-to-manpower ratio had got way out of hand and that in reality my base was by and large not particularly well designed or defended (On purpose mind you)
To say that it was a failure would be to miss the opportunity to describe it as "A clusterfuck of biblical proportions"
I had two orbital power beam targeters, 4 doomsday launchers, 3 triple launchers, a tornado launcher, 4 insanity lances, 140 medicine, 300 herbal medicine, 2 spare bionic arms, legs, and eyes. 60 go-juice and enough wake-up to keep the entire population of Sweden woke for a week. 5 res mech serum and 1 healing serum.
I briefly considered using my stock of luciferium before starting but thought that would be gross overkill.
Couldn't possibly have been more wrong :P
All my pigs died on day 1. So things were immediately looking up. Someone had to absorb that incoming rocket fire after all. They were delicious.
I'd used all the disposable weaponry except the tornado launcher on day 4 and one of my colonists was at 2/10 brain which was very slowly being tended to by luciferium. The healing serum having been used on a similar case on day 3.
My freezer and its contents were set alight by a centipede who dropped in and immediately fired upon my chickens on day 6.
Ran out of res serum on day 7 due to wave after wave of sappers with rocket launchers finally cracking my autocannon defenses out front. With no animals to hurl to their deaths and injuries mounting I was becoming rather concerned at this point.
On day 8 a tornado generator was... inadvisably deployed too close to my base during a last minute panic. Virtually everyone was killed in the ensuing chaos.
Ramos however was doing surprisingly well, the Rooster was still alive(albeit very badly burned) and we'd found some more precious minerals :P Just 7 days to go!
https://imgur.com/a/nyLahVz
Suffice to say I'll be either turning down the difficulty a tad for my last spaceship push or seriously reworking base design to something more appropriate for the rather large difficulty spike :P
Was extremely fun however and I'd heartily recommend being overwhelmed by ravenous hordes of dropping mechs and swarms of doomsday launchers.
Worth noting that there's about 50 different things I could've changed to more effectively prepare, so this is by no means a criticism of the difficulty or the system itself.
---
Overall I have to say that the late game is considerably more enjoyable with easier access to trade and subsequently many of the toys you seldom got to even see let alone play with in earlier versions such as the rocket launchers, soothers/lances ect.
I never found resource acquisition to be a problem even when outfitting colonists with 5+ bionics each, partially due to my artificially low population brought on by only recruiting transhumanists.
However most of my resources were as a result of trade being extremely profitable if done right (Neutromine can be purchased and sold as Wake-up for a reasonable and very consistent profit as every bulk goods trader has some and will buy wake-up, might want to look into that.) and the ability to convert manpower into useful materials, supplies, and fun toys such as Doomsday launchers and luciferium felt quite satisfying.
If I had a criticism of the late game at all it would be the sheer amount of time it takes to make the advanced components required to build the ship parts. 72 advanced components before factoring in structural beams and caskets is just a lot of raw crafting time. Again my low population factored in considerably. Most of my time was spent acquiring wealth which could be converted to raw resources but not into advanced components.
Additionally I have to say that despite trade being extremely effective I at no point ever deliberately set out to trade with a settlement via caravan simply because the risks were never justifiable.
I did however send a single colonist on occasion to a settlement (via drop pod)to see what it had for sale (Looking specifically for rare objects like Archotech limbs) and would occasionally as a result send out a very small caravan after the fact to purchase these.
Edit: Just my luck as I post this Tynan goes ahead and re-balances bionics and the ship raid frequency.
Further edit: Forgot to mention that it's fairly easy to accidentally call in multiple caravans from opposing factions and have them fight on your doorstep as a result.. Or in your hallway.. or your freezer.. Or in one case a colonist's bedroom.
Mostly this is harmless.. Sometimes it's a royal pain in the arse. Very occasionally it's extremely profitable if a pack animal happens to die before the fighting scares them off.
Quote from: Polder on July 01, 2018, 03:03:00 AM
In the end my colony succumbed to a combination of a strong pirate raid with poorly planned defenses resulting in several deaths. A few days later a poison ship I had been ignoring started affecting my crops and I felt like I had little choice but to attack. I totally underestimated the mechanoids and they killed everyone. This was at about 20k wealth.
Maybe you could've brought out the mechs and lured the pirates into them!
Quote from: Tynan on July 01, 2018, 05:52:37 AM
Hydroponics fertility 230% -> 280%.
I was just building a full sunlamp room of hydroponics. Well, that's a convenient buff. Now let's restart Rimworld and hope the update doesn't break my mods and I have to start over.
Quote from: Zombull on June 30, 2018, 05:59:49 PM
Hay deteriorates way too quickly outdoors. I should be able to keep animals outdoors and feed them without the entire hay bale deteriorating before they can eat it. It should deteriorate very slowly anyway unless it's raining and having a roof over it should greatly reduce its deterioration rate.
Is this outdoor hay sitting on a constructed floor or on the ground? I grew up on a ranch with cows and stuff and we fed a lot of round/square bales to them. If a hay bale is sitting on the ground, the bottom of it will get moldy fairly quickly, especially in damp weather, even if they're covered with a tarp or whatever. Admittedly, this is on a timescale of RL months... considering a RL year is 365 days and a Rimworld year is 60 days. How quickly does the hay decay?
Quote from: Jstank on July 01, 2018, 03:42:19 AM
That doesn't make any bit of sense. If this person spent his life scavenging through wreckages to find interesting stuff, then WHY THE HELL CAN'T HE HAUL!?
There are a lot of backgrounds that disable hauling in this game and most of them don't make any lick of sense at all. Before we wrap a package on this game can we dial back the amount of disabled hauling that occurs in characters? It should really only be for health reasons that these pawns can't haul. EX: Bad Back!
100% agreed. Way too many backgrounds that disable hauling for no logical reason.
Quote from: Tynan on July 01, 2018, 05:52:37 AM
Rename ultratech medicine -> glitterworld medicine
Thank you!
One quick thing which I forgot to mention is that with plague, at least in my experience, there's only really one opportunity to tend it due to the rate at which it progresses which is the initial tend. Perhaps tend duration should be reduced from 2 days to 1 day, because right now the 2 day tend window is somewhat misleading and could result in false hope.
I've never had any plague casualties this run since the first instances of plague were mid-late game when I had a good supply of medicine set up, but I feel this could ease up things for others.
While playing I got this bug while trying to trade with a bulk goods trader from space in the latest build.
(http://puu.sh/AP1ru/890706c890.jpg)
Quote
Balanced some bionics and archotech body parts a bit.
Shift various ranged weapons' firing delays a somewhat from warmup into cooldown to reduce cheese and counterbalance not being able to use them in melee.
I can't imagine why ::)
Immediately interested to see what kind of bullshit I can pull with a chain shotgun with 0.9 warmup though.
I noticed that 3 elements increase deteriorating of stuff. Leaving raider's body on the river catches all 3 and they are done in ~10 days. Cool.
I have the same problem as @FlAsHi0Z , with the same trader.
Quote from: Lech on July 01, 2018, 06:48:45 AM
I noticed that 3 elements increase deteriorating of stuff. Leaving raider's body on the river catches all 3 and they are done in ~10 days. Cool
In before Tynan nerfs body detoriation rate to encourage use of Crematorium.
I noticed I got a ton of manhunter raids even at 300k+ colony wealth. My freezer was overflowing with meat after a few of them. Maybe have a increased cooldown between them?
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 01, 2018, 06:01:04 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 01, 2018, 05:52:37 AM
Hydroponics fertility 230% -> 280%.
I was just building a full sunlamp room of hydroponics. Well, that's a convenient buff. Now let's restart Rimworld and hope the update doesn't break my mods and I have to start over.
Welp, the rotation change rotated all my basins and broke them. Nothing godmode can't fix, but now I gotta delete the materials that are lying around.
Fun Fact: Plants proceeded to grow on the stone floor (not actually grow but... ya know, didn't disappear).
OMG dude its sunday and you still updated it -.-
I hope you do remember to update descriptions, once patch hits live. Chain shotgun(range) and assault rifle(bullet number per attack) are 2 examples of outdated description.
I released a prisoner and he fell on three wooden traps. Maybe they should act as traders (friendly) as to not active the traps?
Ok, this new 'Run wild' mental break really made me laugh like the first time I played this game. Juliette the Gatherer decided to leave the colony and go live with the animals. The final straw was: Someone's organs harvested. Can't say I blame her, but you know, some things need to be done. She revenged after the second failed taming attempt and she died in the fight. I tried to bury her in a sarcophagus, but couldn't assign her. I know, she probably wouldn't have wanted that anyway, but civilization must be forced on people sometimes, be it post mortem.
I noticed that all pawns have a 'Revenge chance on tame fail' stat now, which is always 0%, even for the wild man. But when I assigned her to be tamed a message popped up saying there was a 10% chance for revenge, and sure Juliette did revenge. And if we go that way, the wild man should also have a 'wildness' stat, indicating how difficult it is to tame them.
Also the new 'jailbreaker' mental break got me by surprise. Woodward freed two prisoners and proceeded to hide in his room. So this seems a combination of two mental breaks. Probably to prevent using the same pawn to arrest/beat the prisoners he just released.
Last build has a breaking bug, I'm reverting until we can fix it.
EDIT: New fixed build up now
Quote from: Tynan on July 01, 2018, 05:52:37 AM
Rename ultratech medicine -> glitterworld medicine
And the world is right again
First post so here goes.
I've played several colonies so far in 1.0. Most have not gotten to late game, most not even to turrets, partly because some of the games were tribal or NB starts. The one game so far I have gotten to turrets (yesterday's build not the one just released) I haven't felt the steel cost for barrel replacements yet, however I do only have a few turrets.
Combat feels good, I like the armour changes though centipedes were a nightmare until I got a sniper rifle and even then they take a lot of kiting. Looking forwards to testing the faster weapon charge times. Shotguns feel underwhelming as do machine pistols. My main problem with combat is now how few prisoners I get. Most raids that happened I got zero prisoners as every raider died. I struggled for a long time with getting colonists, more than in previous patches. It didn't help that the first new colonist I got was a pacifist which made going on missions to rescue people a lot harder as I was lacking firepower. I've been waiting for a raider to take a heart from to replace my pacifists heart as it has a blockage and not had a chance to harvest one yet.
My other main issue is how often background based mental breaks happen. One of my few recruits had chemical fascination, three days in a row he went on drug binges, then worked for 2 days and then had 2 more back to back binges. This sort of pattern kept happening his mood being high did nothing to regulate his binges. Normally I wouldn't have recruited this pawn but I was desperate for any half capable pawn.
The changes to animal handling don't seem too onerous, i started with one of my pawns being an animal handler and they managed to keep a decent group of things tame and i didn't have any go feral or lose any training.
The other problem i had were all the traders decided they wanted to hang out in my base entrance with the turrets and deadfall traps. Before i built that part of my defences traders would come in to my base fully, after they only went to the very edge of my base. Not sure what to do about that but it made fighting some things impossible without me shooting the traders so several times I just had to let them fight it out with whatever was attacking me (this did accelerate my wealth quite a lot when one exotic goods trader fell foul to a manhunting pack of 30 alpacas, two of the traders pack animals died as did most of the traders two of whom died to my deadfall traps).
I should have made notes as i played as I'm certain I've forgotten things.
Thanks Broken Reality.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 01, 2018, 08:26:10 AM
The changes to animal handling don't seem too onerous, i started with one of my pawns being an animal handler and they managed to keep a decent group of things tame and i didn't have any go feral or lose any training.
My handler spends his days trying to catch hauling animals to train them.
Oh one other thing has the construction/repair priority changed? My builders would ignore anything in need of repair if there was anything queued up to build. To get them to repair I have to either forbid or cancel all construction plans. In the past I used FLuffy's work tab mod and that gave the option to set priorities for sub categories for skills ie repairing. So I could have a builder set to repair things and others left to build first. Right now I have a lot of damaged walls and things and they are insisting on replacing my stone floor with carpet rather than fix things.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 01, 2018, 08:26:10 AM
The other problem i had were all the traders decided they wanted to hang out in my base entrance with the turrets and deadfall traps. Before i built that part of my defences traders would come in to my base fully, after they only went to the very edge of my base. Not sure what to do about that but it made fighting some things impossible without me shooting the traders so several times I just had to let them fight it out with whatever was attacking me (this did accelerate my wealth quite a lot when one exotic goods trader fell foul to a manhunting pack of 30 alpacas, two of the traders pack animals died as did most of the traders two of whom died to my deadfall traps).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1322328003
It is a mod that speaks to the merchant immediately and returns.
How about joining this mod with the Vanilla game? I think this can be a solution.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 01, 2018, 09:01:51 AM
Oh one other thing has the construction/repair priority changed? My builders would ignore anything in need of repair if there was anything queued up to build. To get them to repair I have to either forbid or cancel all construction plans. In the past I used FLuffy's work tab mod and that gave the option to set priorities for sub categories for skills ie repairing. So I could have a builder set to repair things and others left to build first. Right now I have a lot of damaged walls and things and they are insisting on replacing my stone floor with carpet rather than fix things.
It used to be repair then construct, then people complained because builders were repairing 80% walls before building new walls, so it went to construct then repair.
We really need separate repair and construct priorities in the base game.
Quote from: Ambaire on July 01, 2018, 09:45:30 AM
It used to be repair then construct, then people complained because builders were repairing 80% walls before building new walls, so it went to construct then repair.
We really need separate repair and construct priorities in the base game.
Yeah splitting construction in to construct + repair like plants is split in to grow + plant cut.
Quote from: Ambaire on July 01, 2018, 09:45:30 AM
It used to be repair then construct, then people complained because builders were repairing 80% walls before building new walls, so it went to construct then repair.
We really need separate repair and construct priorities in the base game.
Why only those?
I kinda hoped Fluffy's magnificent Work Tab will make an appearance at some point of RW development.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 01, 2018, 09:01:51 AM
Oh one other thing has the construction/repair priority changed? My builders would ignore anything in need of repair if there was anything queued up to build. To get them to repair I have to either forbid or cancel all construction plans. In the past I used FLuffy's work tab mod and that gave the option to set priorities for sub categories for skills ie repairing. So I could have a builder set to repair things and others left to build first. Right now I have a lot of damaged walls and things and they are insisting on replacing my stone floor with carpet rather than fix things.
Controversial topic, people often complained about it being like that. I for one was fine with fixing priority, in case someone is banging on the door, or turret about to get destroyed and they go build some pointless piece of furniture somewhere. Either way I think is fine though, you just have see whats happening case by case, there isn't a easy catch solution for this one.
Just a suggestion, since we got the ability to assign a bill to a certain pawn, would it be possible to assign operations as well? So if we have multiple doctors, only the best (or the one in training) will do said operation?
Cheers
Damn most of my hydroponics basins and 2 Geothermal Generators broke, at least all the components are there to rebuild them
Quote from: krizs on July 01, 2018, 10:46:32 AM
Just a suggestion, since we got the ability to assign a bill to a certain pawn, would it be possible to assign operations as well? So if we have multiple doctors, only the best (or the one in training) will do said operation?
Cheers
And since we can now install peg legs on humanlikes, why not on animals?
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 01, 2018, 08:26:10 AM
...
Combat feels good, I like the armour changes though centipedes were a nightmare until I got a sniper rifle and even then they take a lot of kiting. Looking forwards to testing the faster weapon charge times. Shotguns feel underwhelming as do machine pistols. My main problem with combat is now how few prisoners I get. Most raids that happened I got zero prisoners as every raider died. I struggled for a long time with getting colonists, more than in previous patches. It didn't help that the first new colonist I got was a pacifist which made going on missions to rescue people a lot harder as I was lacking firepower. I've been waiting for a raider to take a heart from to replace my pacifists heart as it has a blockage and not had a chance to harvest one yet.
...
This. Totally, this. It's never been easy to pick up colonists, in this game but, the extreme death rate on raiders has really put a cramp on expanding a colony's working body. In full disclosure, I play only on Extreme difficulties and I don't expect a lot in the way of mercy from the game; however, going multiple raids without any survivors starts to feel disappointing and ... artificial. Perhaps, there is a better way to handle this? I don't have any ideas but, I just want to throw some weight behind the abject disappointment of surviving the worst this game can throw at one and then still being stuck with the same 3-4 pawns, slowly degrading to injuries ... Thanks.
Its all because of increased death chance for raiders. It was already 66% and although i don't know current value, it was upped even further. There was absolutely no reason for raising it. At least i don't see "Refugee quests are now doable" as a valid reason. Refugee quests can't replace taking prisoners at all.
Had a bit of an unexpected incident, a prisoner with the kind trait who had a +100 friend relationship with a warden got in a social fight with said warden within a day of being recruited. They did talk about vomit and needles however, they must have ran out of things to discuss already... It was more funny than anything else, but given their relationship it was really random.
ive played a few colonies that didnt get far; patch to rev 1050 broke the cannibal trait, so everyone was getting mad about eating human meat.
umm, and now this happened - one of my guys now has two cannibal traits ... i got a wall of text about the tunneler trait and checked the cache in the save file, it says shes supposed to be 'gay' now.
I also noticed i have three colonists with the misandrist trait, that didnt have them before i went to bed last night.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I haven't played that much 1.0 yet.
I like the new blueprints and sprites.
But I already don't like the new grave system, because I usually haul the enemy corpses to one of my stockpiles and strip them there and then bury them. (So the apparel isn't that far away from my base and is indoors.)
Now i have to switch the priority of my stockpile back and forth instead of "just" clicking bury.
I don't like raider death chance change.
I know Tynan wants to make recruiting raiders hard, but I feel this change is very arbitrary.
How about reducing recruit change recruit chance instead?
Like, If player had enough colonists, recruiting becomes more harder.
Can we also get the option to allow sowing on Hydroponics? That would be nice
> sent a caravan to filfull trade order
> they got malaria
> RIP
> trade order was for resurrector serums
> used traded serums to revive died pawns
> net weight: wasted a season and half of time
Currently most diseases are lethal unless you can let pawns rest in beds. So unless you can send a level 20 doctor with your caravan, or have drop pods to evacuate them immediately, or can settle and build a hospital in one day - any disease that pawns in caravan get will invariantly kill them. Add ambushes that caravan can get into (so you have to heavily guard them) and your own base that is left without part of your crew... Unless you really, really, REALLY need something - caravans are not worth it.
Also:
Foraging is based on plant work skill, but traveling with caravan does not gice said skill.
You can't milk or shear caravan animals.
You can't have any good events in travel.
Your animals are losing skills during travel and you can't sustain them.
Quote from: Namsan on July 01, 2018, 11:36:38 AM
Like, If player had enough colonists, recruiting becomes more harder.
Imo it takes away the organic feel when games "cheats" like that. Not sure how much of that stuff is going on in this game, hopefully as little as possible..
Yeah its kind of hard to enjoy the caravaneering part of the game with it being capable of just wiping your run on a storyteller's whim. :P
While diseases are a pain during caravan, they are not impossible. A level 9 doctor with good Medicine (Medicine, not Herbal Medicine) is usually good enough to stave off disease and infections.
Part of this is players invest in medicine and penoxydiline way too late. Now a good hospital and drug labs are a priority. Players complaining about how caravans aren't worth it, i feel, are inexperienced and there's no clear line WHEN caravans are worth it. This is why I don't caravan unless my base is secure, has proper medicine, and have enough hands on deck.
It would be nice if you can rest a friendly settlement and heal for payment. Idk how hard it is to program this but even a flat increase of tending would be very nice to have.
One tip I read about was putting colonists that are about to caravan on penoxycline. This is a really good idea. Unfortunately, due to the way penox works, you would have to get them on penoxcycline a few days before caravanning. Or just keep colonists you want to trade with always on it.
I recently just lost a suicide trader to plague with 300 flake. It does hurt. It's not quite so bad on randy, since if you recruit everyone you have plenty of jerks with chemical fascination and cataracts that are expendable.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 01, 2018, 12:25:09 PM
While diseases are a pain during caravan, they are not impossible. A level 9 doctor with good Medicine (Medicine, not Herbal Medicine) is usually good enough to stave off disease and infections.
Part of this is players invest in medicine and penoxydiline way too late. Now a good hospital and drug labs are a priority. Players complaining about how caravans aren't worth it, i feel, are inexperienced and there's no clear line WHEN caravans are worth it. This is why I don't caravan unless my base is secure, has proper medicine, and have enough hands on deck.
It would be nice if you can rest a friendly settlement and heal for payment. Idk how hard it is to program this but even a flat increase of tending would be very nice to have.
Sure, good hospital will help you a lot when pawns in a caravan is sick, and you always have a level 9 doctor to send with a caravan while having another to stay on your base, and sure nothing bad can happen with either of them.
Quote from: Tynan on July 01, 2018, 05:52:37 AM
Rename ultratech medicine -> glitterworld medicine
:) Glitterworld is such a good word. It feels like a word that tribals, outlanders, and tribals alike share around the camp fire in hopeful greed or fearful wonder of their own visions of a rampant technological wealth, if you only have a ship to reach it.
Also I'm enjoying the stretched research progression for ranged weapons. Now I'm much more likely to build bolt action rifles early, or sell everything for that excellent charge lance. I haven't really figured out the ups and downs of new charge rifles.
I'm enjoying the combat AI changes like aggressive flanking.
Auto cannon is fun. I'm very attracted to building one at the main entrance and supporting with a couple snipers and a lot of automatic fire to cover the cannons minimum range.
Inspirations are also a very fun buff for colony mood. Nutrient paste is very strong in its own ways, but will that -4 be holding someone back from legendary craftwork or significantly buffed trade?
Maybe because of that or other things, I've been paying more attention to keeping the Bloodlust/Misogynist/Misandrist type people away from colonists that the might affect through zones or production locations.
Mortars are much harder to reach now, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing with the increase risk of direct combat.
I'm enjoying the earlier armor choices now between Flak Vest+ and plate armor. I think there may be something to reconsider about plate armor and dusters/jackets/parkas. Flak Jacket on plate might be a problem then, but I don't know. I'm spending 30 minutes just thinking about clothing layers before actually giving up lol.
Thanks for all the hard work. So many aspects allowed to play style and experimentation :)
That was needlessly hostile, Oblitus. Calm yourself.
When I say hospital I meant "functioning medicine factory". This is why one should have a handful of doctors, medicine, antibiotics, before caravaning. I keep a handful of glittermeds on hand if it gets real bad.
Caravaning is very much worth it. The problem is that players really have no idea what to expect. I know many of my earliest caravans ended in failure, but hey, learned from my mistakes and prepared better. I've caravaned more in 1.0 more than I have in previous alphas I feel. As for caravans preparations, you need:
1. Capable doctors.
2. Medicine, the good kind. Glittermeds if you're properly paranoid.
3. Penocidiline.
4. Drop pods for emergency doctors, medicine, and food.
5. A well defended base.
I don't caravan until I have all of these elements covered. The rewards are very enticing in 1.0, and my want for rewards makes me risk more and that's a good thing IMO.
@lanturn
Just a bit of advise on cannons before you get too comfortale around them: Stay behind them xD
Colony deaths so far:
2- torn to death by wild animals
2- one shot by autocannons. They hit harder than sniper rifles.
2- sapper raid from hell
1- shot by sniper
1- plague on caravan
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 01, 2018, 12:46:36 PM
1. Capable doctors.
2. Medicine, the good kind. Glittermeds if you're properly paranoid.
3. Penocidiline.
4. Drop pods for emergency doctors, medicine, and food.
5. A well defended base.
From my experience it works much better this way:
1. Drop pods to evacuate pawns to hospital with capable doctors
2. Drop pods to evacuate pawn to hospital with good meds
3. Drop pods to go there and back before penoxycyline expires
4. Drop pods for everything
5. Drop pods for... Why do we need caravans again? We can build drop pods to send things, other factions have them to send rewards, why we can't just send what they need by drop pods and get reward in same way?
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 01, 2018, 12:46:36 PM
1. Capable doctors.
2. Medicine, the good kind. Glittermeds if you're properly paranoid.
3. Penocidiline.
4. Drop pods for emergency doctors, medicine, and food.
5. A well defended base.
Do note, that all aforementioned conditions assume you're more or less mid to late in the game. We're however encouraged to take on quests and travel even early game, rely on refugees instead of capturing raiders and et cetera. And early game its a suicide mission unless you get a lucky roll.
Not to mention that "well defended base" without half its inhabitants (those that gone traveling) is a questionable concept now that we have crazy raids that don't flee at all and sappers that get replaced once you kill a couple.
Tynan in case you didn't know, "claustrophilia" means "desire for confinement in an enclosed space." So "claustrophiliac" might be the trait name you're looking for.
In hindsight, letting in 20 polar bears wasn't "free food"
Incidentally yet another autocannon death ::) These babies really are a double edged sword outside of a killbox.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Madman666 on July 01, 2018, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 01, 2018, 12:46:36 PM
1. Capable doctors.
2. Medicine, the good kind. Glittermeds if you're properly paranoid.
3. Penocidiline.
4. Drop pods for emergency doctors, medicine, and food.
5. A well defended base.
Do note, that all aforementioned conditions assume you're more or less mid to late in the game. We're however encouraged to take on quests and travel even early game, rely on refugees instead of capturing raiders and et cetera. And early game its a suicide mission unless you get a lucky roll.
Not to mention that "well defended base" without half its inhabitants (those that gone traveling) is a questionable concept now that we have crazy raids that don't flee at all and sappers that get replaced once you kill a couple.
Yeah, refugees still don't feel worth in in the early game especially. Item stashes and other things can be, and it's nice to know what you're going to get and have a decent idea of what will be there. Refugee events is still risking decent colonists for one that might be terrible.
Why do the traders INSIST on wandering around my IEDs? Already killed one of their own there!
Picture of idiot traders. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qaq7phivk2nbqnp/20180701202245_1.jpg?dl=0)
Edit: They finally detonated one of the IEDs causing a chain reaction killing them. Now they hate me :D .
Well, we do need trader spot. Also, all rescued or allied people should move like our pawns, moving around traps when possible.
Quote from: Tynan on July 01, 2018, 05:52:37 AM
New build.
Rename trait Tunneler -> Indoorsman.
Just a note: Loading my 1.0 Savegame from the old version to the new one caused my colonist with Tunneler trait to lose this trait. (Also a prisoner that had the trait also lost it.)
Ah, that rich temperate forest... Just look how much trees and grass it has!
No, it is not right after a toxic fallout. It is summer without extreme weather. I'm not cutting down trees above necessary. There are no herds of alpha beavers. It has average 30/60 growing season. And yet there are only a few trees and sparse patches of grass.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on July 01, 2018, 02:08:28 PM
In hindsight, letting in 20 polar bears wasn't "free food"
Incidentally yet another autocannon death ::) These babies really are a double edged sword outside of a killbox.
Hahaha, best quote taken out of context.
I'm finding that the restriction to gaining new pawns in early game is too much. There's no way that I can afford to send out a party to rescue anyone or do any caravans at all. And that lasts for a LONG time. I'm getting very few surviving raiders (much less ones that are worth converting) and the escape pods are not coming enough. Please increase the occurrence at least a little bit.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 01, 2018, 03:09:18 PM
Ah, that rich temperate forest... Just look how much trees and grass it has!
No, it is not right after a toxic fallout. It is summer without extreme weather. I'm not cutting down trees above necessary. There are no herds of alpha beavers. It has average 30/60 growing season. And yet there are only a few trees and sparse patches of grass.
I like how there is like 1 grass tile for 5x5 square XD But the promise is fullfilled - it does look like year 1 even after couple years with some extreme events. ::)
Quote from: Oblitus on July 01, 2018, 12:36:27 PM
Sure, good hospital will help you a lot when pawns in a caravan is sick, and you always have a level 9 doctor to send with a caravan while having another to stay on your base, and sure nothing bad can happen with either of them.
With decent amount of herbal meds and a few prisoners a whole colony can learn 10 doctoring in 10-15 days, even pawns without any passion in it. Double fires hit 10 lvl with like 10 herbal meds, single fire with ~20. So, then you start colony, big field of healroots is a thing right after building basic shelter and a small rice field. No one push you to go caravans unprepared. Im personally ignore all travels until second spring and like 7-8 pawns in colony so i can afford to send at least 3(1 melee, 2 ranged) well equipped(like 30 meds, helmets/flak sets) to travel.
Is "sand kick" move supposed to stun one who used it? Because it ultimately does. It has a half an hour cooldown during which pawn is incapable of doing anything.
Quote from: Awe on July 01, 2018, 03:56:24 PM
With decent amount of herbal meds and a few prisoners a whole colony can learn 10 doctoring in 10-15 days, even pawns without any passion in it. Double fires hit 10 lvl with like 10 herbal meds, single fire with ~20. So, then you start colony, big field of healroots is a thing right after building basic shelter and a small rice field. No one push you to go caravans unprepared. Im personally ignore all travels until second spring and like 7-8 pawns in colony so i can afford to send at least 3(1 melee, 2 ranged) well equipped(like 30 meds, helmets/flak sets) to travel.
Prisoners? Barely ever get them. Healroot requires level 8 grower, by the way.
The armour formula suffers from superlinear scaling at high values. Let x be the fractional armour (so that 100% is 1), then EHP is 1 / (1 - 3x/4), only considering armour up to 100%. If plotted it's obvious that later percentages provide more EHP than earlier ones. This can be illustrated by example. If a shot is affected by armour the damage multiplier is 1/4 (half deflected, half reduced to half damage blunt). So for 50% armour, half of shots do full damage, and half do 1/4 damage, so the overall damage multiplier is 0.625, and the EHP is 1.6. For 100% armour, the damage multiplier is just 0.25, and the EHP is 4. The higher percentages of armour are not particularly more difficult to obtain than the lower ones, so this is a big problem with the system.
Quote
Prisoners? Barely ever get them. Healroot requires level 8 grower, by the way.
1 prisoner is enough, and its not an issue, but then training takes more time because you need to wait for full recovery after surgery failures.
8 in plants can be an issue if you play fully random games or NB/RE scenarios, but then peoples choose such difficulty i bet they must know that they do. ::)
(The same Cassandra Intense Tribal animal swarm on a 30/60 growing days Boreal Forest. Septober '03)
I don't tame new animals anymore; the ones I have keep reproducing. The Muffalo Mob got up to 63 animals before I said "enough" and started slaughtering down to a more sustainable* 50. My seven colonists still spend most of their time feeding this horde, but I've been climbing the tech tree and getting some efficiency improvements. I tried a Nutrient Paste Dispenser as a faster alternative to kibble, but it apparently doesn't do that. I dissembled it. Anyway, I've got 600 nutrition stored for this coming winter, plus a greenhouse on fertile soil for year-round vegetables. Food is no longer a risk - just a time sink.
Raids are just not threatening**. Seven scythers? A fifteen-man siege? Puh-lease. Now that my melees have shield belts and flak vests, they can lead the stampede without any real risk, and then either duck out and let the Mob do the work or slice up the machine gunner in the back. My base has (stolen) mortars, but no perimeter wall, traps, turrets, or even sandbags. I had made rows early on out of stone and slag chunks, and have never had cause to upgrade. I hired an elite mercenary squad of alpacas, and I expect them to eventually displace half of the other animals.
Having so many muffalos isn't just invalidating combat - I have more wool and bluefur (and other leathers) than I know what to do with. All my colonists are wearing heavy fur from the megasloths that I kill on sight. Every trader who visits walks away with an empty coin-purse and pallets upon pallets of leather. Even if I had the spare colonist time, there's no point crafting or sculpting anything to trade. Nobody can pay for it anyway.
I did maybe 5 or 6 quick caravans just to clear stockpile space. I sent my non-violent negotiator, a melee bodyguard, and three muffalos. It was profitable and safe. Very small events like three mad chickens or two weak pirates. Now that the outlander union is allied with me, I've been calling them on the comm console. I have done zero other over-world quests. There's just nothing that I really need.
*Possible balancing lever: my herd consumes all the grass so quickly that I have to feed some of them year-round. If grass were less nutritious, I would have to lower my population cap, but someone with a more reasonable herd would be unaffected.
**As long as raiders stand their ground while shooting, they will always be trampled by the Mob. If they kite away and scatter, it might be a different story. At least I would need to focus more on faster animals that are trained for release, rather than lumbering simpletons.
The changes since B18 are awesome!
Some things I've notice while playing the new updates:
- The rate of decrease in faction relations vs. the ability to improve them felt too heavily biased towards decay. It would be great to get better bonuses from gifts/trading with factions.
- I find myself having to spend a lot of time forbidding items I just created which I want to save for later use (e.g. disallow pawns from consuming packaged survival meal immediately). Is it possible to just have an option to forbid them upon the item being deposited somewhere after its creation?
- In a recent changelog, I noticed there was more incentive for doctoring pawns to not let someone bleed to death while doing other things, which is fantastic. However, I still have to continually remind my doctor pawns to not start resting/eating/feeding other healing pawns while there are unpatched pawns. It would be great if priority 1 doc meant that they would do doctoring before doing any form of rest/feeding. Maybe that's just my inner hypochondriac coming out though.
Quote from: Awe on July 01, 2018, 03:56:24 PM
With decent amount of herbal meds and a few prisoners a whole colony can learn 10 doctoring in 10-15 days, even pawns without any passion in it.
10 in medicine without a passion in couple weeks for several people sounds like sleeptalk, sorry. Unless i guess the only thing your people do all day is treat something.
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on July 01, 2018, 04:12:53 PM
(The same Cassandra Intense Tribal animal swarm on a 30/60 growing days Boreal Forest. Septober '03)
I don't tame new animals anymore; the ones I have keep reproducing. The Muffalo Mob got up to 63 animals before I said "enough" and started slaughtering down to a more sustainable* 50. My seven colonists still spend most of their time feeding this horde, but I've been climbing the tech tree and getting some efficiency improvements. I tried a Nutrient Paste Dispenser as a faster alternative to kibble, but it apparently doesn't do that. I dissembled it. Anyway, I've got 600 nutrition stored for this coming winter, plus a greenhouse on fertile soil for year-round vegetables. Food is no longer a risk - just a time sink.
Raids are just not threatening**. Seven scythers? A fifteen-man siege? Puh-lease. Now that my melees have shield belts and flak vests, they can lead the stampede without any real risk, and then either duck out and let the Mob do the work or slice up the machine gunner in the back. My base has (stolen) mortars, but no perimeter wall, traps, turrets, or even sandbags. I had made rows early on out of stone and slag chunks, and have never had cause to upgrade. I hired an elite mercenary squad of alpacas, and I expect them to eventually displace half of the other animals.
Having so many muffalos isn't just invalidating combat - I have more wool and bluefur (and other leathers) than I know what to do with. All my colonists are wearing heavy fur from the megasloths that I kill on sight. Every trader who visits walks away with an empty coin-purse and pallets upon pallets of leather. Even if I had the spare colonist time, there's no point crafting or sculpting anything to trade. Nobody can pay for it anyway.
I did maybe 5 or 6 quick caravans just to clear stockpile space. I sent my non-violent negotiator, a melee bodyguard, and three muffalos. It was profitable and safe. Very small events like three mad chickens or two weak pirates. Now that the outlander union is allied with me, I've been calling them on the comm console. I have done zero other over-world quests. There's just nothing that I really need.
*Possible balancing lever: my herd consumes all the grass so quickly that I have to feed some of them year-round. If grass were less nutritious, I would have to lower my population cap, but someone with a more reasonable herd would be unaffected.
**As long as raiders stand their ground while shooting, they will always be trampled by the Mob. If they kite away and scatter, it might be a different story. At least I would need to focus more on faster animals that are trained for release, rather than lumbering simpletons.
You are awesome and I love your posts about your animal mobs/strike forces, very entertaining to read. I normally only play on tundra but you make me want to play on a different biome to try to sustain the same amount of animals.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 01, 2018, 04:15:26 PM
10 in medicine without a passion in couple weeks for several people sounds like sleeptalk, sorry. Unless i guess the only thing your people do all day is treat something.
You just dont know that to do. You dont need to treat
something. You need exactly to install and uninstall peg leg to prisoner. 1 operation gives full daily cap of exp for 2 fires, 2 operations for 1 fire, a bit more for unpassioned but if you need a decent doctor you must do it instead of whining about rimworld cruelty.
Ah, the old peg leg cheese. Well that explains it.
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on July 01, 2018, 04:12:53 PM
(The same Cassandra Intense Tribal animal swarm on a 30/60 growing days Boreal Forest. Septober '03)
I don't tame new animals anymore; the ones I have keep reproducing. The Muffalo Mob got up to 63 animals before I said "enough" and started slaughtering down to a more sustainable* 50. My seven colonists still spend most of their time feeding this horde, but I've been climbing the tech tree and getting some efficiency improvements. I tried a Nutrient Paste Dispenser as a faster alternative to kibble, but it apparently doesn't do that. I dissembled it. Anyway, I've got 600 nutrition stored for this coming winter, plus a greenhouse on fertile soil for year-round vegetables. Food is no longer a risk - just a time sink.
Raids are just not threatening**. Seven scythers? A fifteen-man siege? Puh-lease. Now that my melees have shield belts and flak vests, they can lead the stampede without any real risk, and then either duck out and let the Mob do the work or slice up the machine gunner in the back. My base has (stolen) mortars, but no perimeter wall, traps, turrets, or even sandbags. I had made rows early on out of stone and slag chunks, and have never had cause to upgrade. I hired an elite mercenary squad of alpacas, and I expect them to eventually displace half of the other animals.
Having so many muffalos isn't just invalidating combat - I have more wool and bluefur (and other leathers) than I know what to do with. All my colonists are wearing heavy fur from the megasloths that I kill on sight. Every trader who visits walks away with an empty coin-purse and pallets upon pallets of leather. Even if I had the spare colonist time, there's no point crafting or sculpting anything to trade. Nobody can pay for it anyway.
I did maybe 5 or 6 quick caravans just to clear stockpile space. I sent my non-violent negotiator, a melee bodyguard, and three muffalos. It was profitable and safe. Very small events like three mad chickens or two weak pirates. Now that the outlander union is allied with me, I've been calling them on the comm console. I have done zero other over-world quests. There's just nothing that I really need.
*Possible balancing lever: my herd consumes all the grass so quickly that I have to feed some of them year-round. If grass were less nutritious, I would have to lower my population cap, but someone with a more reasonable herd would be unaffected.
**As long as raiders stand their ground while shooting, they will always be trampled by the Mob. If they kite away and scatter, it might be a different story. At least I would need to focus more on faster animals that are trained for release, rather than lumbering simpletons.
Yeah animal swarms are fun :D Still, this is intense, I wonder how this would hold up on extreme or when the inferno cannons and doomsday launchers start showing up.
How are you feeding them all on boreal anyways? Human kibble?
Story from play.
Build .1949
Cassandra Rough (Hard)
seed: stork
Flat Temperate Forest
Started a colony with a custom scenario that is basically the crashlanded scenario, but only two colonists.
Inna was a good hunter and miner, as well as an acceptable crafter and researcher.
Drew was an altruist, but a good builder, grower, and doctor.
Over the first 15 days, I had two wanderers join, both incapable of violence, one was Drew's brother Dex.
I ended my play session after 15 days.
Build .1951
Day 16. Inna, only colonist capable of violence, abducted by raiders. She had downed one, and the other two raiders were bleeding to death, but she went down with only bruises, and the raiders got her off the map before they downed to blood loss (raider carrying her was at Moderate Blood Loss when left the map).
All hope is not lost, because my prisoner from an earlier raid can do violence, if only I can recruit him.
Predators need to defend themselves better.
Had a pet panther that kept fleeing from 4 Manhunting rabbits, while non-violent colonists were hiding inside.
We get word of a refugee able to be rescued, but they are guarded by a ring of turrets. With no violence-capable colonists, we have to ignore it.
Day 25. Another raid, everyone hides in an ever-shrinking part of the burning house (doors have less HP because of build .1951, so it is harder to hold the house with door repairs, and the raiders set my wood walls on fire, but Freezer has stone walls already. Panther dies in raid, and my pet cat has its spine shattered. Raiders break down the door to my prison cell, and my prisoner escapes. So much for him being my hope of defense. Eventually the raiders give up and leave. We put out the fires and start rebuilding. With no colonists capable of hunting, we butcher both the panther and the cat for meat.
Day 31. A new wanderer joins, and he is capable of violence, however he only has a 2 in Shooting. We give him our only gun, having sold the rest to a caravan in order to buy the panther.
Day 35. Had a group of "cows" join --> 2 Bulls. So much for the hope of milk.
Day 36. A Megasloth goes mad. Worried, we move everyone in the house except Adiemus, who can use a gun. Before everyone is even in position, we get a raid of 4 pirates. Move Adiemus indoors, and hope they fight each other. They take out the Megasloth, but one gets a leg torn off in the process. Adiemus is back outside to take a few shots, and kills one and injures another before going down. We have one of the non-voilent boys run out and rescue Adiemus while the raiders shoot at the bulls. Raiders decide to steal what they can and leave, running off with 476 Silver, and 14 components. One raider doesn't seem to be leaving with the rest, he sets my generator on fire, digs through 4 different wood doors in my base, then steals my billiards table. I had no idea that "steal what they can" meant they could decide to steal something they couldn't already reach.
Day 42. Get a quest to rescue a refugee named Fernand. His class is bodyguard, so we hope he is capable of violence. Adiemus and a bull head out to get him, only 1.7 days away, carrying 5.6 days of food.
Caravan is only 6 hours out when the base gets raided by tribespeople. I move colonists into the house, and the raiders club my remaining bull to death. I forgot to forbid one of the doors, so Drew goes outside and before I can get him back inside, he gets his head destroyed by a single club-stroke. During the raid, I get a quest that Inna is at a raider's camp and I could rescue her. After destroying or lighting on fire most of the base, the raiders give up and leave.
Before the raiders even make it off the map, an escape pod lands containing an 80-year-old man with bad artery blockage. He is capable of violence, so we go to rescue him. At this point we realize that Drew was our only doctor (others CAN but have 1 or less skill). We do our best to patch up the old man, but he gets an infection and eventually succumbs to it.
Day 44. Remaining two colonists at base come down with the Flu, and do their best to treat each other without meds (meds were burned by raiders, but at least we can avoid the self-tend penalty). Dex gets out of bed and wanders around in a psychotic daze. While he wanders around, the other sick colonist hits his 1000th (44th) birthday, and gets the gift of a Bad Back, this combined with the Flu downs him while he was up getting food.
Later that day, Adiemus's caravan reaches the refugee Fernand, and sneakily rescues him from under the noses of 7 sleeping mechanoids. They begin their way back to the base.
Day 45. A local squirrel goes mad, and bites Dex until downed. Between malnutrition, flu, squirrel bites, and the resultant blood loss, he has taken too much and dies. The other colonist who was downed by bad back is losing the battle with the Flu.
Day 46. Adiemus's caravan is out of food, but is less than a day from base.
Also day 46, another raid shows up at the currently uninhabited base. Just one guy, but he starts going to town on my coolers, generator, butcher table, and dining room. Then he leaves with much of my food on fire.
Day 47. Caravan arrives back and I end my play session.
Quote from: Awe on July 01, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on July 01, 2018, 04:15:26 PM
10 in medicine without a passion in couple weeks for several people sounds like sleeptalk, sorry. Unless i guess the only thing your people do all day is treat something.
You just dont know that to do. You dont need to treat something. You need exactly to install and uninstall peg leg to prisoner. 1 operation gives full daily cap of exp for 2 fires, 2 operations for 1 fire, a bit more for unpassioned but if you need a decent doctor you must do it instead of whining about rimworld cruelty.
To level from 2 to 10 you need 54000 experience. It is 13.5 days if you get 4000 every day. You can't really get overhead without 2 flames, so it is already more than you've stated.
If you get 4000 from 2 operations with 1 fires, you need 6 operations per day without passion. Or 81 operations in total. Which means that you need at least 3 prisoners and a solid stock of meds. I'd rather invest into drop pods.
It was updated and I enjoyed the game for a while.
The door was very weak. In the early game, when the pirates started attacking the door, they were instantly destroyed.
Even animal door attacks are threatening.
The enemy's reaction is really fast.
And the move locking in reloadtime was lengthened, which made control difficult.
Because it is possible to cancel the attack during the warm-up time, but it can not be canceled at the reload time and can not respond quickly to changes in the situation (for example, if the enemy approaches).
If you were trying to help a ranged weapon against melee, the result was totally the opposite. melee will avoid shooting at long distances and easily catch distances that do not move long reload time.
Personally, it is fun to have some balance between warm up and reload.
Hi, first time posting, wanted to leave some feedback from my experience playing with the development build.
Currently playing Cassandra/Hard with a standard start, though on the smallest map possible since I am currently playing on a non-gaming laptop. I've made it 5 years so far.
I will admit I've had to use the dev console at some points along my journey, but only to correct issues created by the daily patch cycle and I've always made sure it wasn't to get something for free. An example being that I was in the process of loading a transport pod with supplies one night and saved my game when I was done playing, and when I came back the next morning and a patch was released, it somehow caught my pawns up in a loop they couldn't break from. I can't explain their erratic behavior, maybe they were trying to load something that wasn't there anymore but no matter how many times I cancelled the load it would happen again, so I did a dev-instant load to sort that out and no problems since.
As much as I love the consistency of the water wheel power generation, I feel like it is still too reliable and safe. As you can (hopefully) see from my screenshot, I started out in a mountain that has a river bisecting it. This has given me an incredibly safe and reliable power supply with zero need for battery backups. I feel like there should be some output variation in the water wheel the same way there is in the wind turbine, though maybe with not with the same extremes. Changes from 1200 to 800 would have been enough in the early game to force me to either build more, or to prioritize battery research way sooner than I did.
Autocannons feel really great, and have since the first patch cycle. They have been really helpful in softening enemies as they come in by providing meaningful damage instead of just acting as a damage sponge like regular turrets always felt like. My only complaint is that they are downright scary to stand in front of when they are shooting. I've had several animals killed, limbs lost, and the occasional pawn death to missed shots that slam into the back of my fighters. I feel like their chance to stray off target and hit other things in their path is too high but maybe that's the point, or just a quirk of the combat at large.
Speaking of combat, and the armour and armour penetration system at large... it feels clunky in its current state, and poorly described to the player. I am pretty sure I have most of it understood, but armour percentage balloons so rapidly that it becomes confusing, with many pawns having over 100% armour rating. It feels bloated and wrong. Also, when you check a pawns overall armour rating, what does that even mean? Isn't it all limb and layer based calculations?
In a similar vein to the combat system I gotta say I really dislike the changes to the assault rifle. Not its damage, but its new, incredibly wimpy-feeling 2 round, slow firing burst. Granted this has less to do with clear cut gameplay and more to do with aesthetic taste, but the assault rifle really feels gutless and weak without its electric staccato sound. I don't care if you have to nerf the assault rifles numbers to make it all hash out behind the scenes damage-wise, but whatever you gotta do to bring back its 3-round burst is a must, otherwise I feel like I'd be looking for a mod to give its edge back.
Oh, and the charge rifle, it also feels and sounds less impressive than it once did, now that it shooting a 2 shot burst at a slow tempo. Can we experiment with giving it a more steady, drum-like firing rate? A steady beat of single shots with a low cooldown, something similar to the auto pistol. I think that'd be nice.
Mechanoids felt extremely, overwhelmingly strong early on in the patch cycle, especially when my colony was fresh. They are a bit less intimidating now that you have made some changes to them, but without restarting from the beginning I can't really say for certain how balanced they feel. The new enemy type (splitting up the scythers) is great, but I still feel like they could use some more variation. A new enemy type? A tunneling animal-like mech that can show up in your base that shoots fire instead of just the same boring insects all the time? I dunno, but that's clearly way beyond the scope of these current tests.
Can't really think of too much else to say. Overall I am very happy with the changes I am seeing with each patch, and 1.0 overall. Having lots of fun playing it, especially with the new caravan mechanics that just feel great across the board.
Oh and just for a bit of fun I'll share the unusual trade request I am working on fulfilling. A neutral tribe is offering me a legendary mini-gun in exchange for 99 short bows. I... guess that makes sense if you have lots of people who all need weapons? I'd settle for one gun shooting 99 bullets, personally, but that's their business.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Daimon16 on July 01, 2018, 11:23:04 AM
I haven't played that much 1.0 yet.
I like the new blueprints and sprites.
But I already don't like the new grave system, because I usually haul the enemy corpses to one of my stockpiles and strip them there and then bury them. (So the apparel isn't that far away from my base and is indoors.)
Now i have to switch the priority of my stockpile back and forth instead of "just" clicking bury.
Great point, wonder why that was changed.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 01, 2018, 03:09:18 PM
Ah, that rich temperate forest... Just look how much trees and grass it has!
My first (and only so far) 1.0 game is in exactly such a map, only without the rock resources either.
The I had a toxic fallout, and haven't recovered yet.
Some wildlife observations.
Wolf's intelligence is nerfed? Meh, we still have cougars to replace them. Arctic wolves still have advanced trainability, BTW.
Why are foxes carnivore? Foxes should be omnivores.
Pack of manhunting hares is still one of the most dangerous events in the game.
"Catch an animal to train it" is still one of the most popular games amongst handlers. Using their obedience training to make them listen is considered cheating.
By the way, i wonder what brought on the huge door nerf. Are they made from paper now or something? The hp on them was already crap, aside from slow stone ones. Now any door that is not made from stone can be easily eaten by some mad bunnies. Funzies.
Ugh, second mechanoid drop pod attack.
I like that these occur in the game, as they are pretty much the penultimate, no punches held, time wreck your base time event.
But holy crap do they just wreck things. I'm getting a little better at it, it looks like a way to deal with them with my style of fort is to open the doors to your fort so they at least stop wrecking your buildings.
Anyways, here's a before and after, going to cost a few thousand steel to rebuild, also lost a ton of faction and an ally -___-
Edit: also I just checked. Bullface is apparently alive lol.
Edit: aaaaaaand... eaten by a grizzly bear
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Madman666 on July 01, 2018, 05:17:52 PM
By the way, i wonder what brought on the huge door nerf. Are they made from paper now or something? The hp on them was already crap, aside from slow stone ones. Now any door that is not made from stone can be easily eaten by some mad bunnies. Funzies.
A door made of steel requires 12.5kg of stuff. If we assume that door is a sheet of metal 1m wide and 2m tall, then it would be 0.8mm thick. So... Yes, they are made of foil.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 01, 2018, 05:29:40 PM
A door made of steel requires 12.5kg of stuff. If we assume that door is a sheet of metal 1m wide and 2m tall, then it would be 0.8mm thick. So... Yes, they are made of foil.
Hehe, thats a fun fact. Yeah, foil door for a house on a frontier world is the best. Who cares about dangers? Live free, die brave.
Quote from: Fritigern on July 01, 2018, 04:55:41 PM
incredibly wimpy-feeling 2 round, slow firing burst
What about a third bullet in the middle of the burst that is secretly guaranteed to miss? All the taste, none of the calories.
Quote from: Greep on July 01, 2018, 04:28:47 PM
Yeah animal swarms are fun :D Still, this is intense, I wonder how this would hold up on extreme or when the inferno cannons and doomsday launchers start showing up.
How are you feeding them all on boreal anyways? Human kibble?
Centipedes, with inferno cannons or otherwise, are not a threat yet. They
maybe fire one shot before the Mob closes distance. Granted, the most I have had to fight so far is three plus two lancers from a poison ship, which is the most favorable situation for the Mob. Six centipedes walking across open terrain would be scary.
The last time (in A17?) that an enemy raider came with a doomsday rocket launcher, I created a special one-square animal zone in their path and restricted an elk to it. The animal sprinted to its forward deployment and was promptly vaporized. Not sure if this exploit still works. If not, I could be in trouble.
Feeding the animals was challenging for the first winter only. Now I have a large field of haygrass. There's a lot of big game, and I hunt it aggressively. I make a lot of kibble. I don't butcher raiders, but I leave them out in a hidden stockpile and let the boars eat them.
Quote from: Serina on July 01, 2018, 04:23:12 PM
You are awesome and I love your posts about your animal mobs/strike forces, very entertaining to read. I normally only play on tundra but you make me want to play on a different biome to try to sustain the same amount of animals.
D'aww, thanks!
Well, if the purpose of 1.0 was to make it more difficult, you have succeeded.
Playing on Pheobe, Extra Hard, Crash Landed. For the record, when I start the game, I generally look for a good variety of pawns, not specialists. I avoid non-violent to start, as well as most people with restrictions. I will re-roll pawns that can't do dumb labor, unless I know that they have a full time job, like a cook. While I like toons that are 10+ in skills, I will be satisfied with 7+ in most skills(especially if they have a passion). That said, this run I had a pawns that were 10 in construction (6 for a 2nd pawn backup), 13 in Animals, 9 Doctor, 7 Social.
The game did seem to start slower than I remember with colonies I started in B18. There does seem a bit more time spent on Joy/Recreation. Not sure if pawns have a higher internal priority for it, or need more of it, but it does seem to slightly slow down everything else. This played havoc with my initial start and consequentially limited the time I had on initial research. I also did seem to notice that mental breaks occurred more frequently further slowing things down.
I'm used to using wind/solar power initially. However, due to the changes and slower initially research, I never was able to get batteries researched despite being my initial project. In retrospec, I should have added a normal generator for reliable power. (Note: I was not on a river, so new watermills were not an option.)
Early on, I was hit with gut worms... on both my doctors... my decent one (skill 9+passion) and my limited backup. (skill 4 no passion) Ironically, the next best Doctor had the adulthood background of "Medieval Doctor" yet that only gave him a +1 doctor skill for a total of 1, which seems quite low for someone that has the title of Doctor. With 2 people having gut worms, needless to say the colony was hamstrung for growth. My main constructor was the secondary doctor, and the backup was the doctor, so when these two were hit with gut worms, base construction was limited as well.
I had the usual problems... Heat Wave, the heat wave despite lasting only a short time removed all the wildlife from the map as the animals moved on, A 3 person raid that 2 occupied my pawns, while the 3rd started a fire on my wind generator. Killed one, incapacitated the 2nd, then the 3rd fled, the fire was put out by rain that was ongoing since before the raid began.
I had a tame Warg that attacked a squirrel(for food), prompting the squirrel's revenge... and the Warg fled. I thought that was quite odd for its behavior. I am ok with most of the taming changes, but maybe cut back a little on the taming loss... After all, while training will increase the bond between animals and their masters, a safe place to sleep along with a steady food supply is all that is needed to keep them from ever going wild. Also, the higher attack on failed tames seems a bit harsh IMO... After all, most of the taming process is giving a wild animal food... even if the wild animal doesn't like you, it has food in front of it, no need to chase off and attack someone who is leaving. Now, maybe it can be justified if wild animals get pregnant now... after all you never want to be near wild critters that are pregnant or have young ones near... but they should attack before a taming attempt even begins in that case. (I don't know if that has changed or not... but I did notice juvenile critters on the map, which is a change from prior versions.)
I am about to bail on the current colony though... The only good doctor got Malaria... he is still suffering from gut worms... I was treating him with the backup, I got immunity up to 77% while the disease is at 85%, but then he went on a food binge, right as he needed his next treatment... so he is close to death and psychotic so that he can't be treated even though he needs it. Even if he calms down and goes back to bed, with the catharsis overcome the amount of pain he is in from major malaria infection and gut worms? This colony has been a massively slowed down start to begin with... I don't want to deal with the extra slowdown once he dies and everyone else starts getting even more mental breaks from his death.
That being said, if you want to increase initial game difficulty, Success!! If not, you might want to tone it back a little bit. That being said, I will start a new game... I will probably hold out a bit more for better initial pawns... Hopefully RNG won't severely slow down (or incapacitate) 2 people early as well...
For the second time, I have encountered the ancient danger event, decided to open it up for the hell of it and found... nothing dangerous at all. I could understand this happening once, but twice in a row? It seems quite strange, considering every previous encounter I had with this event prior to 1.0 unstable ended really badly for me. I found a bunch of frozen people and a load of harmless bugs. One was crazy high on some drug and had to be gun down, but the others willingly let my merry band of teenaged tribals arrest them, strip away their stuff, execute them and feed their bodies to the sealed bugs in the ancient room (I fought I was done with that habit). There wasn't much point in carrying on with the save, as I had done exactly the same thing fairly recently, but if it is indeed a bug of some kind, I still have a save from before I opened up the building to check it out. Why aren't the frozen people attacking, why aren't the bugs violent? It just seems a formally dangerous event has become an easy colonial startup vault. I am playing at medium difficulty, but my previous deadly encounters with this event were also played on medium, so I don't think that's the problem.
Ancient evil has always been that way. Sometimes you get a hive with no bugs. Sometimes you get crazy weirdos. Sometimes you get wandering mechanoids.
And sometimes you get aggresive mechanoids that charge your base.
Quote
From my experience it works much better this way:
1. Drop pods to evacuate pawns to hospital with capable doctors
2. Drop pods to evacuate pawn to hospital with good meds
3. Drop pods to go there and back before penoxycyline expires
4. Drop pods for everything
5. Drop pods for... Why do we need caravans again? We can build drop pods to send things, other factions have them to send rewards, why we can't just send what they need by drop pods and get reward in same way?
I'd take you more seriously if you explain your caravans better. For all I know you have a level 3 doctor, no pack animals, and herbal medicine for all your caravan runs. From what I can gather, you have no penoxycyline, no medicine, no high level doctor, and no pack animals.
Why caravans? Well, Set Up Camp isn't vanilla and you can't always return with drop pods. You can travel with drop pods, but not return with them.
I also wonder how many people you send on your caravans, you don't say that either. A caravan run to sell stuff requires a minimum of only one person. Hell, my caravans are extremely small. I only have my best trader, third best doctor, and the minimum amount of pack animals for weight to send them.
Refugee quests? Two people. One melee fighter, one shooter. Either of them should be a medic. Barring refugee quests in enemy outposts that should need at least four people. Of course this is assuming you have good armor and weapons and good medicine. Which is why caravan runs should really be done when you're at least a year in.
You should experiment more rather than just complain about it. Or if you're gonna complain, at least explain your situation better.
Beat it on hard tonight.
Launched and the daily swarms were tough as I was getting spun up. Lost 3 colonists while preparing.
Might be good to add a message 'hey if you start this reactor up you have 15 days of hell until you manage to launch.'
Is it intentional that some colonists who are bonded can't be a creatures master? Just seems odd.
Regarding the old "Ok" turned into "Dismiss", I personally feel it was good as it was. "Ok" being universally understood as "I get it, no action taken" while dismiss can be more ambiguous.
Example with a prisoner rescue quest: "Dismiss" or "Jump to location", made it feel like dismiss would remove or discard the quest, and jump to location would accept the quest.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 01, 2018, 06:46:06 PM
I'd take you more seriously if you explain your caravans better. For all I know you have a level 3 doctor, no pack animals, and herbal medicine for all your caravan runs. From what I can gather, you have no penoxycyline, no medicine, no high level doctor, and no pack animals.
Why caravans? Well, Set Up Camp isn't vanilla and you can't always return with drop pods. You can travel with drop pods, but not return with them.
I also wonder how many people you send on your caravans, you don't say that either. A caravan run to sell stuff requires a minimum of only one person. Hell, my caravans are extremely small. I only have my best trader, third best doctor, and the minimum amount of pack animals for weight to send them.
Refugee quests? Two people. One melee fighter, one shooter. Either of them should be a medic. Barring refugee quests in enemy outposts that should need at least four people. Of course this is assuming you have good armor and weapons and good medicine. Which is why caravan runs should really be done when you're at least a year in.
You should experiment more rather than just complain about it. Or if you're gonna complain, at least explain your situation better.
I have 8 pawns (6 of them are good shooters), 3 of them are level 10 doctors. I have a ton of industrial medicine, penoxycyline and a herd of muffalos.
* Sending any caravan without at least four fight-capable, well equipped pawns is just too dangerous. Three is a bare minimum. Two is a russian roulette.
* Pack animals are slowing you down drastically. Caravan can move 2-4 times faster without them. More, if your pawns are bionic.
* Refugee quests tend to be heavily guarded for me. Usually outpost or mechanoids.
* If I send 4 fighters away, I'll only have 2 left to defend the base. And raids are tend to be much more dangerous now, unless you cheese them somehow.
Overall, travelling outside worth it if you can do it in no more than 3 days. Longer jorney are extremely dangerous undertaking that requires some heavy preparations. And at the point you have everything ready most rewards are not relevant anymore.
Thank you for the more detailed response.
I must admit, I don't understand why your pawn died to disease considering you clearly have good medicine and penoxycyline. Perhaps you just had a bad run? I know it sucks, but hey, these things happen. Death is expected on the Rim, and while it totally sucks you were very well prepared when tragedy struck, you have a good story to tell.
A caravan needs 4 men minimum is quite untrue however. If you're just selling to nearby colonies, 1 man and 1 pack animal is good enough, provided said trader has good enough Medicine and is a good fighter. I've sent single man rescue missions just fine, with only outposts being a noticeable exception. Sleeping mechanoids are very easy to circumvent by just rescuing the refugee and GTFOing out of there.
Pack animals are needed when you collect silver based rewards for your quests. 2500 silver weights quite a lot. The idea that pack animals are slow is well, untrue. If you had to haul 500 silver with you, it's better to have a pack animal then doing it by yourself. It's why 1.0 shows that weight limit. The more stuff you have, the slower you are. That's why pack animals are great. They're not "slow" as long as you don't bring a pregnant animal.
As for base defense, traps, turrets, mortars, IEDs, really the game gives you enough options to defend yourself. You can also request help from allies if you're really hurting. You have the tools to make caravans work, use them! Or you know, just recruit more people.
Caravaning in 1.o is the best experience so far in RW. Barring a few issues, it's the most noob friendly it's ever gonna get.
EDIT: This was all done on Cassandra Intense.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 01, 2018, 04:43:40 PM
Quote from: Awe on July 01, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on July 01, 2018, 04:15:26 PM
10 in medicine without a passion in couple weeks for several people sounds like sleeptalk, sorry. Unless i guess the only thing your people do all day is treat something.
You just dont know that to do. You dont need to treat something. You need exactly to install and uninstall peg leg to prisoner. 1 operation gives full daily cap of exp for 2 fires, 2 operations for 1 fire, a bit more for unpassioned but if you need a decent doctor you must do it instead of whining about rimworld cruelty.
To level from 2 to 10 you need 54000 experience. It is 13.5 days if you get 4000 every day. You can't really get overhead without 2 flames, so it is already more than you've stated.
If you get 4000 from 2 operations with 1 fires, you need 6 operations per day without passion. Or 81 operations in total. Which means that you need at least 3 prisoners and a solid stock of meds. I'd rather invest into drop pods.
Now i understand why Tynan dont like theoretics. 1 operation at 4lvl unpassioned pawn give him ~1100 xp. To level 2->10 in such rates you need like 50 medicines. Costly, but not problem even at first year, if you have 8lvl farmer and dont play extreme biomes. Also, FYI, leveling 1 fires is faster than 2 fires, because his first operation give him under 4k of xp and you can do second which lead to 6-7-8k(depend on current lvl) of xp per day.
^ Whether you can get 50 medicine or not depends on the nature of your starting scenario, biome, and access to that grower, but there are other ways to guard yourself too.
Given the buildup is pretty quick I'd still take the 2 flames and just run 1 procedure, bit easier on the medicine and more time to do work rather than grind procedures. Still, this stuff is worth doing if you don't have a viable alternative as a failsafe. Even one doctor you've leveled to 10+ this way on luci makes you pretty resistant to disease after you have access to normal beds for a bit better IGS too.
More common disease areas remain annoying, though the monitoring is less taxing with the 4 hr tend window so that is much appreciated. I'd like a little indicator to appear on pawns that get to minor toxic buildup or with enough time to react to hyper/hypothermia with draft micro w/o checking the buildups, maybe some tiny symbol/color. This way players don't have to leave GUI to account for the conditions.
Still, it's already significantly better to manage than before in QoL terms.
I feel like mechanoid drop pods needs it's own special really long mtb separate from raids :'(. 8 days later I have another mechanoid drop event. Shoot me. Literally in the same hour earlier I have an infestation, although that's Randy being randy so I can't complain :'(
Hopefully they fight each other.
Edit: THEY DO :D Sweet bug on bug action. Betting on the centipedes, though.
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Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 01, 2018, 07:49:50 PM
Thank you for the more detailed response.
I must admit, I don't understand why your pawn died to disease considering you clearly have good medicine and penoxycyline. Perhaps you just had a bad run? I know it sucks, but hey, these things happen. Death is expected on the Rim, and while it totally sucks you were very well prepared when tragedy struck, you have a good story to tell.
A caravan needs 4 men minimum is quite untrue however. If you're just selling to nearby colonies, 1 man and 1 pack animal is good enough, provided said trader has good enough Medicine and is a good fighter. I've sent single man rescue missions just fine, with only outposts being a noticeable exception. Sleeping mechanoids are very easy to circumvent by just rescuing the refugee and GTFOing out of there.
Pack animals are needed when you collect silver based rewards for your quests. 2500 silver weights quite a lot. The idea that pack animals are slow is well, untrue. If you had to haul 500 silver with you, it's better to have a pack animal then doing it by yourself. It's why 1.0 shows that weight limit. The more stuff you have, the slower you are. That's why pack animals are great. They're not "slow" as long as you don't bring a pregnant animal.
As for base defense, traps, turrets, mortars, IEDs, really the game gives you enough options to defend yourself. You can also request help from allies if you're really hurting. You have the tools to make caravans work, use them! Or you know, just recruit more people.
Caravaning in 1.o is the best experience so far in RW. Barring a few issues, it's the most noob friendly it's ever gonna get.
EDIT: This was all done on Cassandra Intense.
I will say that these considerations only tend to apply when you've stabilized. Things like having redundant doctors, raid scaling such that you don't need all hands on deck, are things that are typically only enjoyed in an already won position.
When playing desperate start (so far been 'enjoying' the treat of NB/extr on 1.0), it is not immediately obvious that you can even afford to recruit pawns the normal way, you are relying on rescues instant join and maybe the generosity of the storyteller. Both are RNG, but both also don't burn 20-30+ meals for questionable return.
Keep in mind that a large proportion of 'crashland tech' pawns are typically low utility (one of the advantages of the tribal pool is relative paucity of horrendously incapable pawns), with a large fraction being negative utility- this issue is further accentuated with rescue quests since you're taking risks and losing time to secure pawns that on average will be bad.
Quote from: Awe on July 01, 2018, 07:52:21 PM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 01, 2018, 04:43:40 PM
Quote from: Awe on July 01, 2018, 04:25:59 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on July 01, 2018, 04:15:26 PM
10 in medicine without a passion in couple weeks for several people sounds like sleeptalk, sorry. Unless i guess the only thing your people do all day is treat something.
You just dont know that to do. You dont need to treat something. You need exactly to install and uninstall peg leg to prisoner. 1 operation gives full daily cap of exp for 2 fires, 2 operations for 1 fire, a bit more for unpassioned but if you need a decent doctor you must do it instead of whining about rimworld cruelty.
To level from 2 to 10 you need 54000 experience. It is 13.5 days if you get 4000 every day. You can't really get overhead without 2 flames, so it is already more than you've stated.
If you get 4000 from 2 operations with 1 fires, you need 6 operations per day without passion. Or 81 operations in total. Which means that you need at least 3 prisoners and a solid stock of meds. I'd rather invest into drop pods.
Now i understand why Tynan dont like theoretics. 1 operation at 4lvl unpassioned pawn give him ~1100 xp. To level 2->10 in such rates you need like 50 medicines. Costly, but not problem even at first year, if you have 8lvl farmer and dont play extreme biomes. Also, FYI, leveling 1 fires is faster than 2 fires, because his first operation give him under 4k of xp and you can do second which lead to 6-7-8k(depend on current lvl) of xp per day.
So, without any number check and based on wild guesses I've only mistaken by 40%. I'd say my point still stands. Far too tedious and quite expensive. You have to manage operation bills on daily basis, then supervise it execution to make sure that medicine is only used for only operation (unless this is changed if you set to no meds you can't operate), feed that prisoners...
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 01, 2018, 07:49:50 PM
Thank you for the more detailed response.
I must admit, I don't understand why your pawn died to disease considering you clearly have good medicine and penoxycyline. Perhaps you just had a bad run? I know it sucks, but hey, these things happen. Death is expected on the Rim, and while it totally sucks you were very well prepared when tragedy struck, you have a good story to tell.
A caravan needs 4 men minimum is quite untrue however. If you're just selling to nearby colonies, 1 man and 1 pack animal is good enough, provided said trader has good enough Medicine and is a good fighter. I've sent single man rescue missions just fine, with only outposts being a noticeable exception. Sleeping mechanoids are very easy to circumvent by just rescuing the refugee and GTFOing out of there.
Pack animals are needed when you collect silver based rewards for your quests. 2500 silver weights quite a lot. The idea that pack animals are slow is well, untrue. If you had to haul 500 silver with you, it's better to have a pack animal then doing it by yourself. It's why 1.0 shows that weight limit. The more stuff you have, the slower you are. That's why pack animals are great. They're not "slow" as long as you don't bring a pregnant animal.
As for base defense, traps, turrets, mortars, IEDs, really the game gives you enough options to defend yourself. You can also request help from allies if you're really hurting. You have the tools to make caravans work, use them! Or you know, just recruit more people.
Caravaning in 1.o is the best experience so far in RW. Barring a few issues, it's the most noob friendly it's ever gonna get.
Too much random. Last time I had three pawns, two good (12 and 15 skill) shooters with good assault rifles and one awful one with minigun (who was also a doctor). Met a single hostile outlander with a shotgun. He just walked close under all that fire and shot my doctor in heart. Strangest part - it ended well. But with 1500+ hours in rimworld, I've learned one thing: if something can go wrong, it will. And caravan has way too many things that can go wrong. They can work, sure, but... They just not worth it. Too risky, unless you play with expendable pawns or have some serious mod-added tech.
If you seriously aren't doing caravanning at all you're missing out. You don't need a mod for expendable pawns, you just use your crappy ones to do suicide runs. Less pawns: low visibility. I've got a gourmand pyromaniac with psychite addiction (large) that I just recruited. Gave him some flake and trade goods and shoved him into the big wide world. If he dies, oh well, smaller raids because I have less wealth 8). Once you get allies through gifts and trading you just make them come to you (I've got two outlander allies on my randy extreme currently).
What I think anyone can agree on is that caravaning isn't remotely newbie friendly, though, and that events which require escorts (known threats) are only really doable with extreme expendability, like animal swarm builds.
The new animal-fleeing mechanics and no-ranged-in-melee may require some tweaking. I just lost a colonist on my 2nd day to a panther; despite 2 people shooting at it, it kept attacking my colonist until she died (due to hunting her) and then immediately fled without eating anything once she was dead. It fled for a couple seconds, then immediately approached my colonists again in an attempt to eat the Packaged Survival Meal she dropped.
It would be nice to scare off a predator from eating someone with a good injury instead of having to fight it to the death.
Isn't a good chunk of Rimworld random though? It's a part of the game design to tell interesting stories. Caravans have become super friendly, and I just strongly disagree they're not worth it.
Considering that most new players will choose Crashlanded, the argument for tribals or SS or NB doesn't matter all that much because you knew what you signed up for. You know it's gonna be harder. No one is forcing you to caravan. If you think you can't do it well, don't.
"If something can go wrong, it will" is true for a lot of RW. They are worth it in 1.0 for the rewards, that is my opinion. You can argue that refugees aren't worth it, and well that's fair enough. But you took that chance, you made that decision. Current 1.0 seems to have issue with recruitment chances, something I expect Tynan will patch quick enough.
You can take steps to minimise danger but you know, somethings you roll a 1 and that's fine. Did your doctor have a vest for instance? I honestly can't tell because I don't know your experience. For all I know you've caravaned 20 times when 1.0 launched or you've caravaned like 4 times.
It would be nice to know if you have suggestions on how to make it worth it rather than just saying "it's not worth it" over and over. For incapacitated refugees, one suggestion I've heard before is that they have some rare loot on them (Glittermeds, charge rifles, gold, adv. components) regardless of how useful or not they are. That alone would make caravans more enticing.
Listing the skills of the incap refugee would help.
Also, there seems to be a bug where a pet will continue "escorting" their Master while they're sleeping? I had a dog that refused to eat or sleep while their Master was sleeping, but immediately ate/slept after she did some Recreation (dismissing her pet in the process).
With over 2400 hours into Rimworld throughout several versions I have decided to post my thoughts and opinions on unstable 1.0. Remember no matter my opinion I love this game.
1. The new graphics are brilliant. Love the new coms console, mechanoids new look, beds and more, but, I do not like the new vitals monitor, it appears a plopped down square, the original one had far more detail.
2. Doors, yes the cover effectiveness needed to be nerfed, but down to 5% I think we have swung the pendulum from one extreme to the other, moderation is key. I feel the same with the health on the doors, moderation.
3. I absolutely love sapper raids not retreating and that tribals have a means to dig through the walls.
4. I love the added wildlife tab and especially love the fact that random attacks from animals hunting pawns is not part of the tab. Surprises are great.
5. I am enjoying the lancers/scythers. I do feel the centipedes still need a bit of work. I personally liked them being slow, gave me time to regroup for the heavy armor they now have but also understand why some might want them sped up.
6. The new cannons are great, wish they were movable.
7. Changing clothing and armor is far to slow and I think this should be modified.
8. I do not know if volcanic winter chance was upped, but it seems it has been, and i like this.
9. I like the rain gives a debuff for being wet, with this said I also think one type of jacket/duster or parka should prevent this in the rain.
10. I like that raids are now unpredictable where they will attack and that they will attack at 2 or more points of your base.
11. Not being able to shoot in melee range .. this would seem optimal with long range weapons but with short range weapons such as a shot gun it is disappointing.
12. I like some of the new traits in game, quick sleeper is fantastic. Name changes from "tunneler" go "indoorsy" meh
13. I like the new infestation animation and the fact that the drills can produce an infestation. The audio for infestations is off the charts, love it.
14. Floors .. I have always felt if you spend a great deal of time making stone tiles it should be a +2 beauty factor and the flagstone which takes less time a +1. I also noticed burned wood floors was upped from 59% to 93%, as it needed to be changed i am happy but again, moderation.
15. Passive coolers and torches, have no option to not refuel them. This I feel is a need. When you have to buy wood on the ice sheet "no more trees under roof zones" the auto fuel takes all your hard earned silver.
16. The missions are now worth doing, the benefits are finally outweighing the dangers of doing them.
17. I am a person whom like to pick my tile when moving a colony. If i do this via transport pod I literally have to count the tiles by hand before setting the caravan so i can pick the type of map i wish to go to. An auto counter would be nice and maybe an icon that can be set to recall this is where I am going.
18. New bionics crafting is a nice addition.
Now with all of this said, i have traveled a colony from the ice sheet and am approximately 17 tiles from the ship and looking forward to seeing the defenses at the ship in 1.0. Again, this is just my thoughts and opinion.
Seeing that the hydroponics got a graphic upgrade I was hoping they were also changed to have their own light source so I dont need them AND a sunlamp. But sadly I still need a sunlamp... Meaning I dont need a hydroponics basin because the ground will work and gives me access to more crops while costing less power and with out fear to lose my crops when I have a power outage.
Its still a "noob trap" building as new players wound't immediately think to just box in a growzone with a sun lamp and farm from the soil rather than building this thing.
Dear lord. Was in the middle of trading with my two allied factions and all of a sudden this massive shootout occurs. Apparently civil outlanders are at war with the rough outlanders :/
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QuoteIsn't a good chunk of Rimworld random though?
Much less than most think. This includes caravan maneuvers actually. I'd argue that while planning around RNG is reasonable, outcome shouldn't completely ignore skill in interacting with said RNG.
I would also argue that caravans don't actually possess that kind of non-agency RNG however. For example depending on what you carry on the pawn, 1 man pawns are viable and can actually bust turret-defended incapped refugees, make some deliveries, or even break outposts if you have really good stuff.
QuoteI love the added wildlife tab and especially love the fact that random attacks from animals hunting pawns is not part of the tab. Surprises are great.
It's a problem in the game, albeit a partially alleviated one. I've yet to see rationale otherwise that allows it to be an internally consistent feature of Rimworld. If you click on an animal hunting, you can see what it's hunting.
Hiding this information is no more "surprise" than neglecting to provide information about any arbitrarily selected event that does give notification. It's also asymmetric; stuff the game does routinely notify is less threatening. Manually hunting predators on some manually determined routine is a rote-input alpha strategy. That's not a good place for anything, based on Tynan's own rationale in the balance thread. Even basic tasks like feeding your pawns and keeping them warm have more practical variety.
In other words, "surprises are great" is proving too much, or rather using this justification implies most of the rest of the game isn't doing well. There must be a reason this particular pawn killing surprise is better than others for internal consistency - both for Rimworld and in the framework of an argument supporting it. I've yet to see one.
QuoteIts still a "noob trap" building as new players wound't immediately think to just box in a growzone with a sun lamp and farm from the soil rather than building this thing.
Right now hydroponics are only attractive on biomes without ordinary soil...but I'm not sure this is a bad place for them. I'm a bit disappointed in how trees were balanced. Gating them off on extremely slow plant times is a bit heavy-handed and doesn't make sense next to the normal growing system. Maybe the idea was to make the wood shortage felt on desert variants, ice sheet, and sea ice a persistent problem, but this largely is only felt on the desert biomes (growing trees was not viable on the other two even before). On friendly biomes this is offset by how vegetation regrows so quickly - infinite wood is easier than ever there. All in all I'm not sure if it's better, it certainly makes desert tribal harder but doesn't seem to change much on balance aside from that in 1.0.
I also disagree that hydroponics are a "noob trap" beyond research for them. In contrast to some other things, the numbers available in game suggest that hydroponics are a bad value compared to normal growing unless you don't have enough soil. Perhaps the description of hydroponics could benefit from this, or better we can optionally have stuff that isn't researched greyed but still available in the menus with stats.
Quote
Now i understand why Tynan dont like theoretics
Do you perhaps think it's because people can't
or refuse to do math, don't know how to test their theories, let their feelings do their thinking for them,are about as observant as quails, and stubbornly refuse to change their minds about their aforementioned feelings irrespective of the level of objectivity surrounding the subject? :P
Quote
Its still a "noob trap" building as new players wound't immediately think to just box in a growzone with a sun lamp and farm from the soil rather than building this thing.
Context is everything. Perhaps in an all-year-round growing area with infinite soil and the ability to defend it irrespective of location it might be true that some colonies would benefit from such a setup.
Lets do some math shall we?
A sun lamp covers 101 tiles,consumes 2900 power between the hours of 6 and 18. It's effectively on half the time. Ignoring the nature of battery efficiency and the variance in power generation we can assume it uses 1450 constantly. Assuming standard soil it has a grow density of 1-1, 1 tile = 100% growth and all 101 tiles are used.
Hydroponics consume 70 power and 16 of them can be placed within a sun lamp without forcing pawns to clamber over them slowing movement speed. This totals 1120 power all day long.
Hydroponics however have 280% fertility per tile, assuming a 100% fertility sensitivity crop like Rice then each hydroponics has a true density of 2.8. 16x4x2.8 = 179.2. This is 77% more grow space.
So in reality a sun lamp with hydroponics uses 77% more power (1450->2570) and yields 77% more growing space(101->179.2)
If you use an 18 basin setup these numbers shift a little bit into hydroponics favor.
---
Assuming a situation where you don't have soil in exactly the place you want to grow your crops hydroponics are just fine.
It's true that a solar flare lasts long enough to kill your crops in their basins but that's simply a cost intrinsic to being able to relocate your growing zones to wherever you would like. Under a mountain, in the middle of a desert, ect.
It should also be noted at this point that if you're in an environment that doesn't require temperature control then sun lamps almost pointless whereas hydroponics continue to increase your field density at the cost of power.
Quote from: XelNigma on July 01, 2018, 10:13:27 PM
Seeing that the hydroponics got a graphic upgrade I was hoping they were also changed to have their own light source so I dont need them AND a sunlamp. But sadly I still need a sunlamp... Meaning I dont need a hydroponics basin because the ground will work and gives me access to more crops while costing less power and with out fear to lose my crops when I have a power outage.
Its still a "noob trap" building as new players wound't immediately think to just box in a growzone with a sun lamp and farm from the soil rather than building this thing.
Aren't hydroponics much more fertile than fertile ground itself, and by extension choosing where to plant it, means you can go underground and make your own small farm in caves?
Quote from: Boboid on July 02, 2018, 12:39:54 AM
Quote
Now i understand why Tynan dont like theoretics
Do you perhaps think it's because people can't or refuse to do math, don't know how to test their theories, let their feelings do their thinking for them,are about as observant as quails, and stubbornly refuse to change their minds about their aforementioned feelings irrespective of the level of objectivity surrounding the subject? :P
Quote
Its still a "noob trap" building as new players wound't immediately think to just box in a growzone with a sun lamp and farm from the soil rather than building this thing.
Context is everything. Perhaps in an all-year-round growing area with infinite soil and the ability to defend it irrespective of location it might be true that some colonies would benefit from such a setup.
Lets do some math shall we?
A sun lamp covers 101 tiles,consumes 2900 power between the hours of 6 and 18. It's effectively on half the time. Ignoring the nature of battery efficiency and the variance in power generation we can assume it uses 1450 constantly. Assuming standard soil it has a grow density of 1-1, 1 tile = 100% growth and all 101 tiles are used.
Hydroponics consume 70 power and 16 of them can be placed within a sun lamp without forcing pawns to clamber over them slowing movement speed. This totals 1120 power all day long.
Hydroponics however have 280% fertility per tile, assuming a 100% fertility sensitivity crop like Rice then each hydroponics has a true density of 2.8. 16x4x2.8 = 179.2. This is 77% more grow space.
So in reality a sun lamp with hydroponics uses 77% more power (1450->2570) and yields 77% more growing space(101->179.2)
If you use an 18 basin setup these numbers shift a little bit into hydroponics favor.
---
Assuming a situation where you don't have soil in exactly the place you want to grow your crops hydroponics are just fine.
It's true that a solar flare lasts long enough to kill your crops in their basins but that's simply a cost intrinsic to being able to relocate your growing zones to wherever you would like. Under a mountain, in the middle of a desert, ect.
It should also be noted at this point that if you're in an environment that doesn't require temperature control then sun lamps almost pointless whereas hydroponics continue to increase your field density at the cost of power.
The general argument against hydroponics comes from component investment which is relevant unless you've already stabilized a winning position.
There's also the consideration of rice labor costs.
The reason theorycraft is often frowned upon is because most theorycraft is bad or ignores relevant factors.
QuoteSo in reality a sun lamp with hydroponics uses 77% more power (1450->2570) and yields 77% more growing space(101->179.2)
If you use an 18 basin setup these numbers shift a little bit into hydroponics favor.
In addition to power, you have pretty disparate resource costs to set up between the two, more maintenance (more breakdowns from more electronics), and more vulnerability to events hurting them (crops can be saved via hasty campfire, no recourse for solar flare killing crops in hydroponics though). You have to actually research hydroponics too.
None of this makes hydroponics worthless, but it does mean that on maps where you have enough 100% or better quality soil available, indoor growing with soil is a better deal than hydroponics.
But given the design of difficulty between biomes making hydroponics a bad deal compared to soil is a reasonable tradeoff.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 02, 2018, 12:51:52 AM
The general argument against hydroponics comes from component investment which is relevant unless you've already stabilized a winning position.
No, his argument does not come from component investment and the definition of "stabilized winning position" is so fluid that it might as well be meaningless.
Flatly stating that hydroponics are redundant because sun lamps exist is at best disingenuous and at worst an out-and-out lie.
Quote
There's also the consideration of rice labor costs.
Bordering on irrelevant unless you're assuming that space isn't a factor.
That's still costing you crop density to grow corn under a sun lamp.
Moreover longer growth cycles are intrinsically riskier.
Quote
The reason theorycraft is often frowned upon is because most theorycraft is bad or ignores relevant factors.
I covered this already. People are intrinsically lazy in their responses which just bloats the thread. It's my fault ultimately.
Quote
In addition to power, you have pretty disparate resource costs to set up between the two, more maintenance (more breakdowns from more electronics), and more vulnerability to events hurting them (crops can be saved via hasty campfire, no recourse for solar flare killing crops in hydroponics though). You have to actually research hydroponics too.
None of this makes hydroponics worthless, but it does mean that on maps where you have enough 100% or better quality soil available, indoor growing with soil is a better deal than hydroponics.
But given the design of difficulty between biomes making hydroponics a bad deal compared to soil is a reasonable tradeoff.
You might want to double check that breakdowns are tied to the number of electronics you have rather than to a map/world-wide-timer like virtually every other event in the game. You may find that you get exactly as many breakdowns with 1 lamp as you do with 1,000 for example. I'm not honestly sure myself.
Even with enough standard soil hydroponics still offer you the option to reduce your colony's footprint at the cost of an initial resource cost and ongoing power. Space saving is a hard-to-quantify factor.
My intention is not to prove that hydroponics are strictly better in any given situation, it's to simply point out that sun lamps do not in of themselves negate the need for or very existence of hydroponics.
True, so is placement freedom. And it's definitely still cheaper in steel/components to power additional sunlamps than to make hydroponics. Labor cost is relevant to both sides of the equation (rice has a hauling burden compared to alternative crops, but hydroponics have more flexibility in placement), and so is space.
However we're getting a bit away from this issue anyway. For changing hydroponics to be worthwhile, we have to establish that the current state is inferior to a practicable alternative implementation and why that is the case. With something like a strict QoL issue (animal hunting colonist) I find the case relatively easy to make. For hydroponics, I don't even have high certainty on its intended design use cases, while most everyone agrees it does have at least some use cases at present. SHOULD it be more efficient than soil, when the latter is an alternative? If so, why? Is the research cost a valid counterweight? How much more efficient before it's too good?
I at least can't firmly establish a gameplay basis for changing it (IE an alteration where using it vs alternatives is a more interesting/harder to make choice), and I've yet to see others manage from that perspective. That goes for 1.0 and long before it in this case...things like waterwheel or battery nerf don't change much here (a little bit for waterwheel due to placement consideration for soil vs hydroponic).
So far I've had about 4 "digging too deep" infestations, all from the same chunk of steel patch. These are pretty annoying, although I'm not sure if it needs more balancing. So far each of these is nothing my dudes themselves can't handle, but because it's a shock and my dudes aren't there, they usually take out an autocannon before I get there. So I've lost about 1500 steel, and gained about... 4000 steel. Not too great.
There is, however, an extremely easy way to prevent large amounts of damage from them I've just figured out although I've yet to try out: Simply building a walled room w/door around your deep drill should contain them in order to give you time to prepare correctly. However, since the idea behind the infestation I'm sure is to shock the player, the fact that there exists an easy workaround to prepare against a weak infestation kinda would make the event just an annoyance.
Edit: I've also had nothing but mechanoids, infestations, and manhunter packs, which is pretty weird. And the raid scaling feels weird, but I can't tell if this is just randy being annoying. I geniunely don't know what I can do about this o.O: (wealth 170k, day 140)
Guess it's time to whip out the triple launchers. And at least they're still dumb as a brick splitting half their pack to go chase one guy -___-
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I do not know if this is intended but the buff for burying a colonist is a sarcophagi no longer exists.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 02, 2018, 01:21:45 AM
True, so is placement freedom. And it's definitely still cheaper in steel/components to power additional sunlamps than to make hydroponics. Labor cost is relevant to both sides of the equation (rice has a hauling burden compared to alternative crops, but hydroponics have more flexibility in placement), and so is space.
However we're getting a bit away from this issue anyway. For changing hydroponics to be worthwhile, we have to establish that the current state is inferior to a practicable alternative implementation and why that is the case. With something like a strict QoL issue (animal hunting colonist) I find the case relatively easy to make. For hydroponics, I don't even have high certainty on its intended design use cases, while most everyone agrees it does have at least some use cases at present. SHOULD it be more efficient than soil, when the latter is an alternative? If so, why? Is the research cost a valid counterweight? How much more efficient before it's too good?
I at least can't firmly establish a gameplay basis for changing it (IE an alteration where using it vs alternatives is a more interesting/harder to make choice), and I've yet to see others manage from that perspective. That goes for 1.0 and long before it in this case...things like waterwheel or battery nerf don't change much here (a little bit for waterwheel due to placement consideration for soil vs hydroponic).
To be honest I can't justify a change to hydroponics either. At 280% at any rate.
Currently they're somewhere between viable and necessary depending on your map's soil availability and for the most part they offer those maps a way to grow things at roughly the same rate as an 60/60 growing climate.
I think that's a good place for them to be as it means food - in the long term - can be reasonably stable across all environments.
In terms of interesting decision making.. well there's not too much of that intrinsic to the growing system.
Strawberries are terrible as food because eating raw food is wildly inefficient.
Corn reduces labour but has a riskier, longer growth cycle.
Potatoes work in crappy soil.
Hydroponics work everywhere and condense fields at the cost of a reasonable amount of steel and power.
That's really the end of it.
Short of adding infestation-style events specific to the way people grow their crops there's not much else that I can think of. Admittedly a huge, mutant plant growing in your hydroponics does sound hilarious.
Is it wad, or not? Missed shots hit your own guys ignoring shield/armor and adjacent position....
PS Also, fourth winter going. All researches is done, just rebuilding my base for sitting a few more years before start shipbuilding. 320k wealth, almost 20 pawns. Infestations are easy at this point and also bring a lot of moneys via jelly. Mechanoids a bit more entertaining. Mainly because of centipede toughness. Scythers/lancer easier than before. Main troublemaker is sappers. Especially with nerfed cloth doors. :(
PPS Jelly cant be caravaned to other setllements because weird food consumption still here and jellies consumed even before pemmican. :'(
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It's my understanding that shots fired from adjacent pawns will not hit that pawn as a result of the bullet intersecting with their path. They're not included in the cover calculation.
That chain shotgun fired at the megaspider had a 0% chance to hit either of the shielded pawns when fired over the top of them.
However that shotgun missed, scattered 1 tile, and hit Doc as a result.
Shields have always had a 1 tile deadzone, shots fired from within 1 tile bypass them. That shotgun was fired from within 1 tile.
I guess now that guns all have a 1-tile-deadzone that shields don't really need it except for fringe cases like that.
Whoo, beat the 14 centipedes with only one death and 0 autocannons lost :D And she would've been saved if she had a helmet xD So hard appropriately equipping randy colonist hordes, especially with all the steel going into cannons :/
Edit:Yeah I also had this happen to someone with a shield attacking a centipide in melee, somehow got hit with a minigun. I guess the minigun must have fired right as he was approaching. Very unintuitive :/
Is there any particular reason psychic drone debuff was increased to -24 (with hypersensitive, -43... good luck tanking that with anything but a wedding)
Was there some storytelling component gained from inducing extreme breaks with very little (viable) counterplay?
I suppose this is what I signed up for while playing NB/extr - so far my solutions for counterplaying this are:
* Chain raid ancient dangers and stockpile soothe pulsers.
* Caravan off the map / cryosleep. Early in the game, this can result in fighting off 1v8 or 2v8 raids as early as late month 2 / early month 3. Latter is probably doable, but I thought Tynan was trying to discourage cheese...? At 1v8, it just means trading off one RNG for another.
* Tank the extreme breaks. This is an unsatisfying resolution, as good outcome would have nothing to do with skill - just rolling well.
Incidentally, the option I picked was 2, and got raided as the caravan was moving to leave. Defeated raid with zero damage taken, yet it feels empty knowing that RNG completely dictated the resolution of this situation.
It's a long post and i havent read everything soo idk if this was mentioned.
Autocannon turret range seems to be 2 tiles different when planing to build compared to the built version.
Quote
Was there some storytelling component gained from inducing extreme breaks with very little (viable) counterplay?
You can always put on Psychic foil helmets, they reduce psychic sensitivity by 90%.
They're fairly common in trade caravans and aren't particularly expensive.
Yayo and similar are reasonable solutions as well.
Soothers/caravans/cryosleep are pretty low down on the list of counters to drones.
I was listing specific counterplay for early year 1 NB/extr starts, none of the things you mentioned except possibly rolling early ancient dangers to buy foil helmets are relevant.
I'm not sure how often foil hats are found in outlander towns. In the few 1.0 runs I've done I've had an opportunity to buy them in year 1, but I haven't made dedicated efforts for them and have way too little data to suggest how often they're an option. They are cheaper than most armor though, 600 silver or so? I forget exactly. After abusing a thrumbo to death you can get one or two if an outlander town carries them.
You can use caskets in ancient dangers or go caravaning, but I don't like leaving the base 100% compromised like that. It is a pretty strong event to eat early game.
Got a TIL moment recently when I realized you can't use psychic artifacts on raiders that are psychically deaf. Makes sense but had never tried it previously :p.
Hydroponic is something that will be used only in special terrain anyway.
Mostly just increasing farmland is more profitable than hydroponics.
But it is an attractive option in places where it is difficult to secure land for farming.
Exceptionally Hydroponic attractive crops is devilstrand. I really want hydroponic plant is devilstrand. but can't they grow very slow but can't plant hydroponic.
The only thing I want to ask is remove to reduce the speed of the hydroponic when pawn are passing.
It seems really unnecessary for the speed to decrease.
Thanks for the ongoing feedback.
Of course it's useful, but let me just ask people to keep things as non-argumentative as possible. This thread is for chatting about this video game for fun, and giving (experience-based) feedback on an upcoming build. Please do share your logic and opinions, but remember arguing on the Internet is like nuclear war: The only winning move is not to play.
EDIT: BTW I checked, there is no change to wolf trainability, they all have advanced, and have for the entire public unstable phase. Kind of a fun test for theorycrafting here, at least.
Also, considering it, I'm not seeing a ton of reports about killboxes. Why is that? Are the new raid strategies making it no longer worth it? Or are y'all just trying to do something different? Have killboxes been successfully reduced to a non-dominating (but still effective) strategy?
I'd like to know, because it'll inform how I balance turrets going forward.
EDIT: Also FYI, y'all have well outpaced our ability to actually implement the notes that I've been taking. Currently we've got about 12 pages of backlogged tasks to work on, so if something's not done yet it doesn't mean we're not planning it. If you want to take a break testing that wouldn't be a terrible idea, since testing data given now will be a bit distorted since it's played in a context of a bunch of problems we've already got plans to fix.
Speaking entirely for myself in regards to killboxes I've been deliberately trying to avoid using them since the buffs to autocannons. Partially to try them out and partially because I've been deliberately playing on lower difficulties to get a broader look at the game.
They certainly don't feel as necessary as before, in part due to the armor changes which allow more established colonies to more effectively trade blows with the (typically) less well armoured raids. Autocannons blasting through flak vests like they're made of paper certainly contributes.
All that said I think the game's in a better place since I feel less obligated to totally min-max my base defense. Having said that - not building an at least partial perimeter wall still feels like insanity.
I'm happy to defend an open area 100 tiles wide but being attacked from any angle feels like insanity when a basic wall does so much for so little. Maybe that's just me.
---
Fiddling around with a melee heavy colony at the moment which will be interesting regarding kill boxes. Ambushing raids with melee weapons is always going to be an extremely effective melee strategy and melee killboxes can be -in my experience- extremely intricate.
Interested to see how the door nerfs and armor changes play out in a melee dominated landscape.
Still that's all speculation, haven't got my hands on any of it yet.
Really hope that sand/dirt kicking gets changed soon though because even only a few months in that's starting to become a real pain. Having your colonist standing around tying their shoes for 15 seconds is a serious liability, no matter how blind their target is.
Quote from: Tynan on July 02, 2018, 05:02:07 AM
Also, considering it, I'm not seeing a ton of reports about killboxes. Why is that? Are the new raid strategies making it no longer worth it? Or are y'all just trying to do something different? Have killboxes been successfully reduced to a non-dominating (but still effective) strategy?
I'd like to know, because it'll inform how I balance turrets going forward.
EDIT: Also FYI, y'all have well outpaced our ability to actually implement the notes that I've been taking. Currently we've got about 12 pages of backlogged tasks to work on, so if something's not done yet it doesn't mean we're not planning it. If you want to take a break testing that wouldn't be a terrible idea, since testing data given now will be a bit distorted since it's played in a context of a bunch of problems we've already got plans to fix.
The killboxes I've tried to make are absolutely useless because 80% of the raids go outside them anyway, and the mechanoids will simply walk through them, and murder everyone on the way. The mechs are in dire need of a nerf, because as it is, they kill the fun of the game. Particularly the drop pods.
Edit: And when I say go outside of them, I mean "will rather break through a 4-thick wall of granite and plasteel than go anywhere near the killbox.
Edit 2: And I've pretty much given up on this being fixed, so the moment 1.0 comes out, I'll edit the ever loving shit out of the diff files until the game is remotely fun again. Sorry, but I can only watch a base die so many times on medium difficulty without ragequitting after well over two thousand hours played since the kickstarter.
If your aim was to reduce effectiveness of killboxes - its a success, if the aim was to still keep them viable but expensive (steel) tactic - its more or less failure. Not because you have to waste steel on barrel replacement, but rather because nothing goes into killboxes lately. Most raids either drops on your head or has sappers. And why should they, when they can now replace killed sappers and even tribal monkeys can dig in your wall instead and hit your living quarters, where all you can do is pop out of the new paper thin doors and take potshots.
Scattering defensive positions and turrets\cannons across your base is the way to go. On one hand its more fun to have your guys engage in fights more, on the other hand you then proceed to drown in infections as a result. Combat in general feels much more alive with new armor system though. Its still very much random-dependent, but with this system armor actually can make someone quite a tough target, without turning him into overbleeding hole collection.
Maybe I should just mine my whole base with explosive IEDs...
Since cougar and panther are now able to haul and rescue (like all wolfs), can we get lynx to the fox's level, so he can haul too?
Quote from: Madman666 on July 02, 2018, 05:50:50 AM
If your aim was to reduce effectiveness of killboxes - its a success, if the aim was to still keep them viable but expensive (steel) tactic - its more or less failure. Not because you have to waste steel on barrel replacement, but rather because nothing goes into killboxes lately. Most raids either drops on your head or has sappers. And why should they, when they can now replace killed sappers and even tribal monkeys can dig in your wall instead and hit your living quarters, where all you can do is pop out of the new paper thin doors and take potshots.
Have to say you seem to be specifically referring to turret-exclusive kill boxes. Not simply funnels where enemies can be most effectively dealt with.
A hybrid approach using turrets as firepower supplements and possibly sponges is quite viable in my experience.
Really depends on your turret-to-colonist ratio and the amount of firepower required of course.
Its not about turret\colonists ratio. Its about someone actually going where you plan them to go. In B18 i had a killbox with just 4 turrets and like 14-16 guys and they mauled anything to shreds. With tanky autocannons it could be perfectly viable in 1.0 if only raids did care about going into killbox you prepared. It feels like as soon as i complete outer wall ring 90% of raids turn into either a siege, sappers or drop pod raid.
And when its like that, you hardly can count killbox an effective and viable tactic.
Quote from: Tynan on July 02, 2018, 05:02:07 AM
Also, considering it, I'm not seeing a ton of reports about killboxes. Why is that? Are the new raid strategies making it no longer worth it? Or are y'all just trying to do something different? Have killboxes been successfully reduced to a non-dominating (but still effective) strategy?
I'd like to know, because it'll inform how I balance turrets going forward.
EDIT: Also FYI, y'all have well outpaced our ability to actually implement the notes that I've been taking. Currently we've got about 12 pages of backlogged tasks to work on, so if something's not done yet it doesn't mean we're not planning it. If you want to take a break testing that wouldn't be a terrible idea, since testing data given now will be a bit distorted since it's played in a context of a bunch of problems we've already got plans to fix.
This has been my killbox soo far ( https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014441161/screenshots/ ) and i must say its proving to be still quite efficient. The biggest threat (mechs) get kited into the box and than killed by traps and turrets/pawns if they pass.
Raids that drop on top of me dont rly work because of the nice layout of the map i got, a big cave that let me bury myself deep in the mountain soo there isn't a spot where they can land to get around the box.
Sapper raids get rushed by mortar + rocket launchers while the raid crosses a nearby marsh thats outside of the base ( https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198014441161/screenshots/ ) and the rest usually just enters the killbox or does some weird digging on the numerous walls i used to cover the mountain walls.
I haven't had many dead pawns but i did lose some of them to kidnapping to the early raids.
Difficulty is Cass intense.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 02, 2018, 06:14:02 AM
It feels like as soon as i complete outer wall ring 90% of raids turn into either a siege, sappers or drop pod raid.
I've never used a Killbox. I'm pretty new to the game (Maybe 100 hours total? I love games where that is still considered "new") so I'm still formulating strategies and any I had need reevaluation now anyway. However, speaking from a merely v1.0 perspective I agree entirely with the above.
In my game, I had 5-6 raids (if you count people being chased) early game, then built a northern protected area and wall as that's where people tended to come from. The next few raids were exclusively from the east and south (west is a lake shore). I got my eastern perimeter up and then got 2 raids from the south exclusively. I got that wall up, and the next 4 raids were 2 sieges, drop pods inside my perimeter, and a poison ship also in my perimeter.
I swear all those deadfalls have done is got a trader mad at me when two of his guys stepped on them right after they made camp right where I was expecting raiders would attack.
Well, those ships drop randomly, it has nothing to do with you building walls. Raids however just immediately switch to those, that specialize on breaking through walls or ignoring them completely. Not that this is something new - in earlier alphas they also started to show up with sappers pretty much all the time. But the thing is - in earlier versions you could risk a tactic and snipe the sapper, which forced them to drop wall breaking and go die in a kill box. Now however i ve seen tribal miners just up and replace the dude i sniped.
And drop pods are just cheesy as all hell.
I'm personally fairly hesitant to correlate enclosed bases with a change in raid approach location and altered sapper/ect frequency.
It's too easy for negativity bias to totally skew your impressions, even if you've got a large sample size.
Although I'd happily concede the point if I saw objective proof that base design/enclosure altered raids considerably. Just keep in mind that there are lots of factors that could alter raid composition that just coincidentally coincided with building defenses.
Entirely hypothetically if sieges were only possible above a certain wealth threshold and you just happened to always build walls around this time because you had the spare manpower at roughly that time... I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.
Personally I haven't seen a significant uptick in sappers or sieges that directly correlated with wall construction. Walling off 3/4 of the cardinal directions (Albiet diagonally, god damn rivers) and defending from one side didn't seem to change anything at all. Beyond making it considerably easier to defend.
CONCERNING KILL BOXES
I understand that if the second raider in the line sees the first raider's head get cut off by a deadfall trap, the second raider would think twice before going into that same area. However, I don't think that a bear would be sneaky and nimble enough to strafe around all my deadfall traps while chasing Paxe for poking him with a fire stick.
I literally was chased through a trap region by a bear, and the bear stepped around all the 'bear' traps. I think that is too much intelligence for one bear, I could be wrong.
I can't really argue about that, since i don't have any 100% proven information from game files for example. But it does make sense if enclosing access to any constructed furniture and structures such as solars and windmills (anything pricy, that makes prime target for raiders to beat on or steal) did affect probability of raids having sappers. I always enclose my base completely from all sides while leaving closed doors in each side of the wall and one door always held open into my killbox. And once that enclosure is done - you just watch it - they'll come with grenades nearly every time.
Quote from: Jstank on July 02, 2018, 06:52:15 AM
I understand that if the second raider in the line sees the first raider's head get cut off by a deadfall trap, the second raider would think twice before going into that same area. However, I don't think that a bear would be sneaky and nimble enough to strafe around all my deadfall traps while chasing Paxe for poking him with a fire stick.
Those traps have ridiculously nerfed chances to trigger on animals for some real weird reason. It says they work 80% of the time, but in fact they always trigger on humans and mechs, but almost never on any kind of animal. Especially if animal is small, manhunting hares and squirrels for example can ignore a hall of 20-30 traps like its nothing (i actually tried that :P)
Actually i wish there was a mechanic for raiders, that if that raid had someone who survived previous attempt (run away or was released), then that raid would act real smart - mined through traps, tried to go from least defended side and etc - simulated being guided and informed by the survivor about your base. And if there isn't such a guide, they behave as usual.
That would actually make both raids and the decision to release someone much more meaningful.
I'm total newbie and I don't know how to make killboxes, but what I did on my newest colony is working great so far, I made the base close to a mountain and one big corridor and I just let the door open. Instead of making walls far from the base which the raiders like to tear down.
As they enter the base I'm there waiting to shoot them and I leave some melee guys behind a door, as soon as they pass I attack them from behind. I also like to leave some crops just outside the main door and they like to put it on fire losing time and closing their only escape path.
It's great in winter too since I leave some kibble in there and starving animals rush to eat it and I just hunt them inside the base.
[attachment deleted due to age]
As others have said, not many of raids seem to go for the kill boxes. I don't even have much of a kill box as much as a bottleneck though, and only a 1-block limestone wall. I've kinda always assumed that raids will be attracted to the doors, crops, coolers that are exposed to the open map pathing over smooth wall.
My screenshot is of that defense, to the south is just a smooth-walled grazing zone. Mechs/animals have been pretty manageable, because they do path as expected, toward the bottleneck. Human raiders have been going to limestone walls, so I pull them with my only good shooter. This single cannon has felt extremely efficient. Although it's a pinch to put in 600 steel, I'd probably still do it for 1000. I try to clear the cannon zone of any cover, unless it's intentional light bait cover to encourage the longer ranged raiders to move into unfavorable conditions
I think sapper raids can be answered by a supportive power grid so that mini-turrets can be relocated. They also bottleneck themselves at the insertion for sickening levels of grenade carnage and missed-but-hit-the-guy-behind him gun fire. Sappers and drop pods have been challenging, but answerable.
It seems like the delay on drop pods opening is long enough to position for them, but probably not enough time to build any sandbags or move turrets.
[attachment deleted due to age]
As for kill box I tried it and saw it still has uses to dwindle down number. Personally I don't like using them. I do like walling off my entire base though, which forces raiders to split up a little too much. I can just send my forces around to turn a 20 vs 10 raid into a 10 vs 3-5 in small areas.
Something odd about raiders is they sometimes send a few troops to buildings far away from my base if I claim them or built outpost(unmanned).
As for centipedes, I think the issue people are having is not realizing that the best strategy for them is brawlers with blunt weapons. A tool tip would help people understand that without removing a cool dynamic that makes melee useful.
Damn, that door change is just atrocious, 140 hp on steel door is bad enough, but wood ones are just a decoration. 56 hp on a door. Like seriously. A bush (!) has twice as much hp. I am quite tempted to just wall myself in completely and only dig out a way outside when i need it.
On the comment of killboxes: There are way too many sapper raids now instead. Not that I had a problem with them in the first place. But I find the lack of variety boring. Can we not have one raiding group that is ill informed of the player defenses for once :P ?
And on the topic of turrets, i find it disheartening when my autocannon turrets can't hit a Centipede at the end of their max range. Not like its a small target exactly. Also noticing they are lacking in accuracy in general. If anything their best use is to put enemies in cover so you can backstab them from behind.
In fact I find it rare to see turrets kill anything. My colonists do the grunt work for that.
Also IEDs seems to be thing now. Force the enemy into cover and watch the boom! (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tr7s9tmqkvm09km/20180701200240_1.jpg?dl=0)
Quote from: Tynan on July 02, 2018, 05:02:07 AM
Also, considering it, I'm not seeing a ton of reports about killboxes. Why is that? Are the new raid strategies making it no longer worth it? Or are y'all just trying to do something different? Have killboxes been successfully reduced to a non-dominating (but still effective) strategy?
I built a small killbox in my base, but it's not effective anymore.
Because most of raids are now sappers. Sappers ignore killboxes in most of the time.
Hmmm, maybe not all that useful feedback, haven't done all that much playing yet.
I'm not using killboxes at all and I don't find new autocannon that much useful. It uses a lot of energy and in most cases becomes useless quite quickly. For how much it costs it does very little, at least in the uses cases I've had so far.
I should probably do a little bit more.
My main problem with this turret is how easy it is to overwhelm - one guy with shield belt can get rid of such turret.
So while I like that melee now locks in melee combat, I'm unsure if turrets new similar treatment. Maybe if you get to point-blank range it makes sense, but I think that autocannon's minimal range is too big now. I'd say make all turrets unable to shoot targets that are in point-blank range. This way they still cannot defend on their own, but won't be as easily overwhelmed.
Maybe what we need is some sort of barbed wire that slows down pawns (maybe hurt them a little, dunno) but don't provide cover? Sand bags feel kinda pointless in that regard, because while they slow down advance, they also provide cover.
Quests still seem to be underwhelming. The amount of food needed to travel is usually worth more than rewards for doing it. I don't really find myself excited about quests coming in, don't really do all that much of them.
Capturing prisoners on the field (attacking bases or random encounters) is still clunky and kinda unreliable.
I think we should be able to take prisoners without any room - just tie them down and drag along with you. Be it in the field or in your base. Room requirement makes it kinda weird.
Using sleeping bags while in the field is kinda clunky - you have to unpack them (which includes finding them on whoever is carrying them), order pawns to place them and only then they are useful. Not sure if it is worth to implement a separate system of using them, but it feels kinda clunky (side note: not sure if that is a thing, but do pawns get better sleep if you have sleeping bags with you?)
A QoL improvement to look into is making the machining table list a bit more organized, with the addition of prosthetics it's pretty long. Submenus like Guns/Armor/Explody/Prosthetics is a consideration, or add a separate prosthetics bench, IMO steel+silver+components would be a good recipe.
Scythers are really vulnerable to traps, I think a cool solution to this would be to reverse the order in which mechs attack, the scythers can hold back behind the tanky centipedes until the centipedes are either engaged with the base or downed. The centipedes could sweep the traps while the charge lancers can provide cover from snipers. I had a charge lance only raid which aggressively tried to break down walls, it'd make more sense if they stayed outside of the base in scouting/harassment mode. It'd also be a lot harder because you'd have to potentially leave the base to engage.
I kind of like that some raids don't flee, I think fleeing conditions could be randomized for some unpredictability, eg flee if 50%-99% are downed, favor the 75% range.
About killboxes.
Like others have said killboxes seem redundant. Most of the raids I got as soon as i finished my perimeter wall were sappers. Now my old tactic to deal with sapper raids was insanity lances once my colony was wealthy enough, now however that tactic is useless (except to get rid of doomsday wielders) due to other raiders taking over the sapper role.
My usual early defences are a perimeter wall with doors space regularly to provide firing points and now with the prevalence of sappers then ways to kill some off before they breach is very helpful. But now doors are a risk due to their now nerfed health. So killboxes feel useless, walls with doors are a security risk, now need multiple defensive points inside your perimeter wall due to sapper raids and other raids splitting up and attacking from multiple sides this means you need more space inside your perimeter to allow for more defences. Pawns with low combat+ no passion and pacifists feel even more of a burden.
Not sure how I am going to handle base defense right now, possibly several choke point entrances and scattered turrets inside the perimeter, the autocannon don't feel worth the cost and upkeep.
Quote from: Tynan on July 02, 2018, 05:02:07 AM
Also, considering it, I'm not seeing a ton of reports about killboxes. Why is that? Are the new raid strategies making it no longer worth it? Or are y'all just trying to do something different? Have killboxes been successfully reduced to a non-dominating (but still effective) strategy?
I'd like to know, because it'll inform how I balance turrets going forward.
Currently, killbox only can be made if you are under the overhead mountain with outer walls at least 10 tiles thick. Most raids are now either sappers or sieges (out of 7 big raids in my 200 days colony 3 were sappers, 3 were sieges and one was drop pods right on my base), and the best way to counter them is a bunch of snipers. And, since now infestations give a warning and some time to prepare, you have absolutely no reason to live outside, where you can get a mechanoid rain on your head any time.
Still, using deadfall traps proves to be kinda viable if you set them in routes where the incoming raid will likely move - around natural obstacles and such. Though traps are nerfed hard, so it takes 3-4 steel traps to take down a single raider.
Turrets are expensive and weak (well, autocannons are kinda ok in terms of power, but dead zone and maintenance cost are discouraging), but they make great decoys to draw enemy fire.
I will never NOT use killboxes for my Mountain Fortress. And thats OK I think. Turrets do still feel underpowered. Also, I would like the ability to manually order a barrel replaced. If I have a turret thats almost at 0 at the end of a battle, it seems silly that you cant just fix it up. I think barrels should be crafted separately, at the machine table or something. Let its construction material dictate how many shots you get from it. That way you can have a stockpile of them. Then you can smelt the old ones back into metal. Regardless, the killbox I made recently works fine. Instead of sappers though, why not just have the raiders camp outside the kill box and ambush you? Even if they dig into my fort they will die easy, so let them pen me in or something. No forage, outdoor farming, and maybe trade caravans wont show up if they are there. Distant sieges dont mean much to me when Ive got everything under thick mountain roof.
Smaller killboxes on each side GENERALLY works out okay on open maps. It makes the trap versions much more expensive tho.
Of course I've always played mountains, drop raids were always more irritating to me than Infestations even at their prime. (And the new smooth walls thing is awesome)
Am i misunderstanding something from the changelog?
The only way to get masterwork and legendary items is through inspiration now? Iv'e just had a crafter produce a masterwork parka with no inspiration.
Quote from: JimmyAgnt007 on July 02, 2018, 10:02:13 AMAlso, I would like the ability to manually order a barrel replaced.
But you can, if the barrel has been used, right click on the turret and there is a rearming option. I think it always use 60 steel.
Quote from: JimmyAgnt007 on July 02, 2018, 10:02:13 AM... I think barrels should be crafted separately, at the machine table or something. Let its construction material dictate how many shots you get from it. That way you can have a stockpile of them. Then you can smelt the old ones back into metal. ...
That sounds like a mod just waiting to happen!
The real answer is that mass turreting was just a popular, not necessarily effective strategy (even in b18).
On CL or tribal extreme, the decisive threats were typically always type that was non killboxable (late year 1 siege w/ multiple BAR/sniper or sapper), and generally hit in timing where turret research was tight. Defeating these decisive raids practically = winning position.
On significantly easier difficulties, you could do whatever you want and still win. So polling those actions is going to tell you next to nothing about actual utility.
To reiterate - what is popular is not always strong. Typically the only exception is pvp games with matchmaking rating, which allow a semi objective way to select for effective strategy.
PS. Is it possible to provide information about raid point generation changes for 1.0? There is some curiosity whether there is a significantly larger wealth-independent time scaling factor on raid strength now.
Forgot to mention a few days ago that I noticed the functionality of Butchering is now similar to how it is with the "Butchers Can Count Meat" mod (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=37177.0)
No more "butcher forever", at least early game.
Great Change, thanks!!
I have not built killboxes, but instead made a town style colony with several buildings. Raiders can walk in the space between the buildings. The buildings have 2 granite auto doors and sand bags to give me the opportunity to exploit cover and flanking. During a raid some of my pawns will fight from an excellent cover (behind wall plus a sandbag), while the rest move to flank the enemy. Needless to say I don't like the door hitpoint reduction, and that's why I use granite autodoors since I need tough and fast doors. I think to prevent the open door -> shoot -> close door -> wait a moment -> repeat cheese, an AI change would have been more appropriate (if the raider was attacking an enemy standing next to a door, and said door closes and breaks line of sight to the target, the raider should have a good chance to switch to attack that door).
I do want some turrets but so much research is required to unlock them, and on NB starts, it takes me several seasons before I start researching anything.
Quote from: Tynan on July 02, 2018, 05:02:07 AM
Also, considering it, I'm not seeing a ton of reports about killboxes. Why is that? Are the new raid strategies making it no longer worth it? Or are y'all just trying to do something different? Have killboxes been successfully reduced to a non-dominating (but still effective) strategy?
Killboxes aren't the most effective thing anymore. Their main use as far as I can tell is to take down centipedes and manhunter swarms. Thing is I've found just stacking melee pawns in a line and ranged behind them works just as well against manhunter. Centipedes are nasty though, and getting twelve of them to wobble through a one block sandbag is useful. It's the positioning that is useful though, not the turrets tbqh. My latest killbox was one autocannon and four regular, because the colonists brought plenty of firepower on their own.
I've been trying bastion defenses lately. Think a bunch of acute angles of walls/sandbags with doors along the sides and turrets in the pockets. It works well, except I have to build a killboxey half-dome around the back end of the turret to get it to be the most effective. However even without the back wall, I find bastion defenses to be generally more successful than killboxes. I had a sapper raid show up, and they spent 5 hours getting killed trying to walk around my turret defenses because there was about 30 degrees open on the far side of the base for them. Meanwhile even a multi sapper raid with a couple dozen molotov/grenades in three groups got met with ample defenses on all sides.
So to summarize, killboxes aren't good for remotely as much as they were before. They're best in class for certain threats. There may be more viable defensive fortification designs now.
Done some weapon comparation. In my experience, you generally want to use either sniping weapon or something versatile, read assault rifle. SMGs and shotguns are pretty useless by design - they are essentially melee weapons that can't be used in melee. So - assault rifle, charge rifle, sniper rifle, charge lance, bolt-action rifle, or great bow.
AR CR SR CL BA GB
Range 30,9 21,9 44,9 36,9 36,9 31,9
Damage 11 15 25 32 18 18
Stopping 0 0 1,5 1,5 1,5 2,5
Warmup 0,8 1,5 3 1,7 1,4 1,5
Cooldown 1,46 1,46 2,83 2,7 1,8 1,4
Acc Touch 70 67 50 65 65 65
Acc Short 87 76 70 80 80 85
Acc Medium 77 65 86 90 90 75
Acc Long 64 50 88 80 80 50
Bulk 1 1 2 2 1 1
Results:
Assault rifle is vastly superior over charge rifle. It has 48% more range (making it able to compete with bows), twice faster warm-up, much more accurate at cost of 26% less damage per shot. But due to faster warm-up AR has better DPS output.
For sniper rifle, range and long-range accuracy are main stats. That 8 range alone is enough to choose sniper rifle over charge lance. Sure, charge lance has much faster warm-up, but if you want fast warm-up you'll be better with bolt-action. Exactly same accuracy, exactly same range, half damage, but 40% better rate of fire, and five time cheaper so you can easily get excellent one.
The new dialog options definitely makes for some interesting conversations... :o
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Oblitus on July 02, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
Done some weapon comparation. In my experience, you generally want to use either sniping weapon or something versatile, read assault rifle. SMGs and shotguns are pretty useless by design - they are essentially melee weapons that can't be used in melee. So - assault rifle, charge rifle, sniper rifle, charge lance, bolt-action rifle, or great bow.
AR CR SR CL BA GB
Range 30,9 21,9 44,9 36,9 36,9 31,9
Damage 11 15 25 32 18 18
Stopping 0 0 1,5 1,5 1,5 2,5
Warmup 0,8 1,5 3 1,7 1,4 1,5
Cooldown 1,46 1,46 2,83 2,7 1,8 1,4
Acc Touch 70 67 50 65 65 65
Acc Short 87 76 70 80 80 85
Acc Medium 77 65 86 90 90 75
Acc Long 64 50 88 80 80 50
Bulk 1 1 2 2 1 1
Results:
Assault rifle is vastly superior over charge rifle. It has 48% more range (making it able to compete with bows), twice faster warm-up, much more accurate at cost of 26% less damage per shot. But due to faster warm-up AR has better DPS output.
For sniper rifle, range and long-range accuracy are main stats. That 8 range alone is enough to choose sniper rifle over charge lance. Sure, charge lance has much faster warm-up, but if you want fast warm-up you'll be better with bolt-action. Exactly same accuracy, exactly same range, half damage, but 40% better rate of fire, and five time cheaper so you can easily get excellent one.
Did you do all this manually? There's an in-game weapons chart that will show you all of this.. and more besides.
For example I can tell you that the Charge Rifle does ~14% more dps than the AR at Short(15) range with 22% Ap compared to 16%. ARs simply do not have a higher dps at any range except at those which the CR can not fire.
Additionally some of your numbers are off. The charge rifle's warmup is 0.9s, not 1.5.
The range increase from 22 to 31 is 40.9%.. not 48%.
Also a lot of your conclusions are inherently flawed because you've ignored the armor penetration of every weapon. Sniper rifles for example will have their shots affected 19.2% more often vs a 100% armor flak vest compared to a charge lance.
You can't totally disregard the entire armor mechanic :P
I agree with
some of your conclusions, but your math is all wonky.
I briefly thought I was taking crazy pills and that everything I knew was a lie :P
Edit: Also you've got to take into consideration various break points. Charge Lances do 16 damage even when mitigated by armor. Bolt action rifles do 9. That can be the difference between having a working(if damaged) liver and being instantly dead.
Observations of a noob:
The "hunting a predator" text now includes the %chance for revenge. Cool.
Lamp, sunlamps, and possibly other items do not list the power consumption in the builder info. They have to be built first, making it hard to plan the power grid. Not cool 😉
Day 11 I get my first item quest: AI persona core guarded by 2 sythers. 4 pawns, 2 guns and 1 pawn non-violent. No chance! Seems like this event was way too strong for a 1st event.
Caravan formation screen is way cooler, with info about pregnant animals.
Pawns seemed to form a caravan much faster, but it is very early game. Seemed faster though.
Herbivore food consumption seems off. I have 3 tame boomalope and already there is a large region without grass. Larger herds of wild animals haven't eaten half as much grass as my 3 beasts. I planted some hay in fertile soil, about 50 tiles, and it looks like they may starve before spring.
Quote from: Tynan on July 02, 2018, 05:02:07 AM
Also, considering it, I'm not seeing a ton of reports about killboxes. Why is that? Are the new raid strategies making it no longer worth it? Or are y'all just trying to do something different? Have killboxes been successfully reduced to a non-dominating (but still effective) strategy?
I'd like to know, because it'll inform how I balance turrets going forward.
For me, 1.0 Did not make change in my defense set-up, mostly because i very rarely used kill-boxes.
In early game, one usually don't have resources to set them up
mid game - only time when it's viable to build but one has to have full base layout ready ( i usually don't )
late game - if You survived this long, you do not need kill-box (speaking normal-late-game, not raid-size-chrashes-my-machine-late-game)
For dealing with incidents
- Manhunter - wait this 2-3 days, while beeing safe behind walls. any other problem is managable
- sieges - either one has mortars or one has to make trip ti kill siegers, no way around
- assaults are handled one of two ways :
1) they wait before attack - they get 3-6x8-10 volleys of incendary mortar rounds, then rest not burn goes for phase 2)
2) immediately attack - i set up wooden walls with holes to limit range and give 'fake' cover, and place incendary mines. when raiders/tribals
charge they stomp on some mines, when they go cover for shooting, they stomp another mines. And since it's fire, some inferno breaks out.
Also as i saw pawns start to beat fire out if it's on tile next to them, making them stop combat for a moment
- poison/psychic ship - as assaults/as sieges depending on where ship landed and what is my gear. currently grenade kiting around ship is a way to go with one pawn against 1-3 centipides (after clearing scythers)
Calling allies for help is too big risk, sometimes turning Allied faction into Enemy, when their help (wanted or no) goes sideways.
Here is how I built my carefully planned base in the latest Extreme Randy NB attempt. The layout is intended to lure raiders into positions where they are easily flanked. This works OK against raiders so far, less so against manhunter packs.
I am currently struggling with food due to an ongoing volcanic winter and recent toxic fallout, and will probably have to send a caravan.
It also demonstrates that psychic soothe is giving a mood penalty.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Boboid on July 02, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Did you do all this manually? There's an in-game weapons chart that will show you all of this.. and more besides.
For example I can tell you that the Charge Rifle does ~14% more dps than the AR at Short(15) range with 22% Ap compared to 16%. ARs simply do not have a higher dps at any range except at those which the CR can not fire.
Additionally some of your numbers are off. The charge rifle's warmup is 0.9s, not 1.5.
The range increase from 22 to 31 is 40.9%.. not 48%.
Also a lot of your conclusions are inherently flawed because you've ignored the armor penetration of every weapon. Sniper rifles for example will have their shots affected 19.2% more often vs a 100% armor flak vest compared to a charge lance.
You can't totally disregard the entire armor mechanic :P
I agree with some of your conclusions, but your math is all wonky.
Warm-up is probably misplaced. If so, then yes, on short range charge rifle is slightly better. Slightly. At cost of huge range difference.
Armor penetration is derived stat that is based on damage and scales linearly with it.
I actually can disregard armor mechanic for sniper rifles. With sniper rifle you can outrange anyone without it. Not just outrange, but due to AI they usually won't even try to chase you if you shoot from large distance. Proper sniper shot is essentially a free action. Even if you miss or shot is deflected - it is not a big problem. For assault weapons - yes, it does matter. Still, armored enemies are kinda rare.
Hey Tynan agree that there is some information overflow right, so I'll try to keep just stuff that hasn't been mentioned.
- First picture was the result of incendiaries on a indoor growbed, though I agree that a situation like should quickly delve into Dante's Inferno (and holy crap do I need firefoam poppers), it felt I little odd that the open room (2 doors, 1 vent, cracked roof) was such an heat trap (+800°C), to the point where all of my base turned went into +200°C. And you know there's something wrong when a walled room with no roof is much more insulated than a open but roofed room. I beg you o review the system though I agree it wont be easy, but an easy workaround to avoid total failures like mine, is to have roof destruction upon a fire like that, so that more heat can escape.
- Second pic is my second attempt at fending of this siege, mind you I was able to fend off the first time, but the fire had got me. But this time around I was able to bait them into my defenses, and this is just to show what has been my alternative to killboxes. I have to say this setup works extremely well at least in my case (position, river crossing and surrounding mountains). But sadly this was among the very few situations where I got to use it, most of the time it either requires me to get out (mech ships and even the same siege before) or dropping by surprise right int he midst of it (raiders and in the last time 5 light mechs).
- Third pic, meet Blythe, my first medic who happens to also be a pot head, she's been going through Smokeleaf withdraw for what seems to be at least like half a year (since the end of the previous winter when smokeleaf stock ran out). Soon after I begun wake-up production, she went twice through binges, on the same day mind you, and since then fighting off wake-up addiction. Now she somehow she became a vegetable, and its been like ~30 days for smokeleaf, at least 10 days for the wake-up, and had she not been downed this whole time, she would probably have gone through the whole stock of wake-up. Like seriously this needs reviewing, I don't mind they acting like actual junkies, but going on a binge twice on the same day and coming with an ever lasting addiction really is off putting.
- Fourth pic is a small caravan that went for a opportunistic item stash right next to a jade mineral lump, both had manhunting packs (good for a change) with a side of cave bugs. Now this has presented me it quite the logistical challenge, while I'm able to secure nutrition, set up camp and tend to their wounds properly, there is no way that I'm going carry all that jade back home. Because as you can see they're really close but with a mount range in between, this makes want to use transport pods even they may come at a hefty cost, 1 component + steel for each launcher plus the pod itself, I'm not even sure its worth it, but I'm still considering a half approach, to just transport the minerals and have the colonist walk back home. Now this brings two problems to my attention, that transport pods needs the same love the caravan interface got, and there really are too few pack animals (alpaca, dromedary, muffalo I'm aware).
[attachment deleted due to age]
is there something funny going on with quest reward display? Outpost quest that happened to be on the way to a mining location said 500 silver, but dropped 2340.. Or is there a bonus reward in silver based on how many dudes you kill or something?
Regarding killboxes, they've honestly only ever worked in mountains, it's just most notable now. Eventually if you did not build in a mountain your killbox would eventually fail, now it immediately fails. Additionally cannons are very effective and provide reliable cover, that doesn't blow up while repairing in heavy armor, so they're pretty reliable against everything but melee hordes, rockets, and doomsdays. Moveable miniturrets also provide the ability to play extreme with turrets on less mountainoous maps in the early game before you want to dedicate an area to have security buildings. So your main concern is steel, manhunter packs, and centipedes I'm finding.
Notably the most effective killbox I've done in the past, deadfall spam in mountains, is completely dead due to armor in the midgame: the only effective killbox counter by then is cannons. That probably remains effective, but you will need to turn them off during an infestation or manhuner pack so the bugs attack you instead of them. Trying to layer autocannons far in back so they protect one another's minimum range surprisingly doesn't work so well: the very frequent missed shots from the cannon will hit the other cannons causing tremendous damage.
I've also personally just grown to hate mountains by now due to the whole "area revealed" being an "oh hey there, I hear you wanted to build a mountain base. now start a new map because this map is now worthless bwahahaha" It's like the ohko, you lose on mountains and there's not a thng you can do about it other than testing the map seed first or making sure to mine out the whole perimeter of your mountain base first.
I can test a killbox after I finish my current game, but it's actually a lot more fun without one, the only bad thing is questing with raiding parties is just not going to happen until you get properly geared, which is very hard on a "general turret defense" with all of your steel going into cannons, cannons, and more cannons.
Side note on cannons: They are EXTREMELY LETHAL to your own troops. I'm used to miniturrets, which actually increase your survivability because the frequenct small shots cause you to be downed in battle. Not autocannons. They hit something, that part is destroyed. If it's a head, GG. I've head 9 colony deaths so far, 5 have been cannons.
SMG is a better option than sniper in most actual raid situations on high difficulties. Even in newer 1.0 where you can't fire at melee range. DPS output from sniper against 2.5 : 1 odds isn't nearly enough and the slow warmup/cooldown is a serious liability then. Still useful against sieges and such, but this is not a practical weapon as more than a pot shot against sappers and quickly becomes a liability once distance is closed.
Excepting sieges, I'd feel more comfortable putting revolvers on everyone. And yes, SMGs too. They're still very strong when you control engagement range.
As for why killboxes aren't being discussed, I've no idea. As I've pointed out in the balance thread, killboxes with turrets weren't *actually* a 9 strat even in the alphas, despite community opinion. You had (and have) less expensive options that are available earlier and handle all raid types rather than most of them.
Perhaps the raid updates have forced more people to switch tactics, especially sappers that ignore being hit by bullets to continue attempting the wall breach?
QuoteRegarding killboxes, they've honestly only ever worked in mountains, it's just most notable now.
Not true. Main difference is that sieges are more urgent and you have drop pod raids rather than infestation. I haven't played mountains in 1.0...do infestations that spawn there not insta-spawn megascarabs now? Them doing that in B18 completely turned me off to mountain bases but I admit this isn't something I explored in 1.0 because it's been a bad trade prior and I haven't gotten around to testing yet.
Once you have mortars sieges still assault pretty fast on taking damage from them, leaving the main tradeoffs to be base layout and infestation vs drop pod raids. Killboxes were never good against either of these (or sappers) and that remains true in 1.0.
Infestations now have a delay. It's not a huge delay, but it's there. The general infestation strategy is building a giant unused room so 90% of the infestation occurs there, and only building bedrooms to be 4x3 or less, and then burning out the giant room with fire, while meleeing whatever is around. I actually only built mountain bases in b18 due to tornados lol.
Killboxes in mountains worked against basically everything but psychic ships in which case you got your sniper out and trolled some centipedes, maybe built some deadfalls outside to mess with scythers. I don't see much of that changing, although since the economy in mountains is worse than hills by a long shot and you now need tons of steel, I'd imagine it would feel kinda balanced.
Can we vent our frustation on the new armor mechanic here? Because if it goes to 1.0, it's a huge downgrade from B18. 50% armor being "50% chance to deflect all damage" is retarded beyond belief, unless someone can explain to me how the damage modifies the deflection chance.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 02, 2018, 10:26:25 AM
There is some curiosity whether there is a significantly larger wealth-independent time scaling factor on raid strength now.
I'm year 8 on extreme. It's more sensitive to wealth in the end game.
On the other hand, raid points have been redistributed, so instead ~20 centipedes for a 8000 raid i get a dozen of them + the scythers/ landers. I really appreciate this change since it's easier to micro.
Also there is a significant improvement in performance in the end game. I used to be unable to play at speed 3 or 4 decently above 20 pawns and animals. Now, on the same labtop it's really smooth at x3 and i can use x4.
Quote from: tiagocc0 on July 02, 2018, 10:19:47 AM
Quote from: JimmyAgnt007 on July 02, 2018, 10:02:13 AMAlso, I would like the ability to manually order a barrel replaced.
But you can, if the barrel has been used, right click on the turret and there is a rearming option. I think it always use 60 steel.
Oh neat! There wasnt a button for it so I guess I didnt think it could be done. Seems obvious now lol
Drugs are burned one at a time?!
I can pick up a stack of 25 flake from a drop pod in one go, move them back to base, but now I take 25 trips between storage and the crematorium to burn them all?
If bodies and clothes can all be burned in one go now, maybe a full carry weight of drugs could go at once as well.
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 02, 2018, 03:09:50 PM
Drugs are burned one at a time?!
I can pick up a stack of 25 flake from a drop pod in one go, move them back to base, but now I take 25 trips between storage and the crematorium to burn them all?
If bodies and clothes can all be burned in one go now, maybe a full carry weight of drugs could go at once as well.
Yeah, this can't be right. May as well cry over lost drugs once, not 25 times. ;)
To me, the rate of raids on Cassandra/medium gets way too high. I barely get a chance to breathe between them, much less rebuild and restabilize.
I downed, captured and released so many enemies, all but the pirates turned blue. And it seemed the more factions I turned neutral, the faster the raids from the other factions came. Now it's back to back to back raids from the pirates and I can't seem to get anything done in between.
Quote from: Zombull on July 02, 2018, 03:25:10 PM
To me, the rate of raids on Cassandra/medium gets way too high. I barely get a chance to breathe between them, much less rebuild and restabilize.
I downed, captured and released so many enemies, all but the pirates turned blue. And it seemed the more factions I turned neutral, the faster the raids from the other factions came. Now it's back to back to back raids from the pirates and I can't seem to get anything done in between.
I'm not sure if the other side of this coin has been expressed, in this thread (I'm losing track.) There are some of us that are quite enjoying the current state of difficulty, in the game (I also refer to Cassandra, in this case.) I understand the game must be balanced, for everyone but, is it necessary to nerf the entire game? I'm not sure, having only ever played Extreme where the insane level of difficulty feels GREAT to me personally but, an overall nerf doesn't seem like the right direction for anybody's enjoyment ... Isn't an easy mode offered with Pheobe? I would only ask for careful regard to, perhaps, the upper difficulties if changes absolutely must be made to the challenge level.
I'd be quite sad if Extreme were any easier. How would I satisfy my masochism, then? ;)
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 02, 2018, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: Zombull on July 02, 2018, 03:25:10 PM
To me, the rate of raids on Cassandra/medium gets way too high. I barely get a chance to breathe between them, much less rebuild and restabilize.
I downed, captured and released so many enemies, all but the pirates turned blue. And it seemed the more factions I turned neutral, the faster the raids from the other factions came. Now it's back to back to back raids from the pirates and I can't seem to get anything done in between.
I'm not sure if the other side of this coin has been expressed, in this thread (I'm losing track.) There are some of us that are quite enjoying the current state of difficulty, in the game (I also refer to Cassandra, in this case.) I understand the game must be balanced, for everyone but, is it necessary to nerf the entire game? I'm not sure, having only ever played Extreme where the insane level of difficulty feels GREAT to me personally but, an overall nerf doesn't seem like the right direction for anybody's enjoyment ... Isn't an easy mode offered with Pheobe? I would only ask for careful regard to, perhaps, the upper difficulties if changes absolutely must be made to the challenge level.
I'd be quite sad if Extreme were any easier. How would I satisfy my masochism, then? ;)
I wasn't talking Extreme. I was talking Medium. Formerly called "some challenge". Between the new armor mechanic and the raid changes, it feels like a lot more than "some" now.
Difficulty in practically all aspects of the game was increased (mood management, addition of more autoteject tier trait, raid tempo/raid behavior, disease mechanics, infection mechanics), your assessment isn't incorrect.
I don't mind most of it, though some things are just so low counterplay it turns into RNG fiesta.
Feedback from players on the ludeon forums is mostly hardcore players, even a lot of the lurkers finally posting are also hardcore players you'll notice. Quite a lot of people play just killboxes or really casually, and the casual players are going to get hit hard with this update, and none of them really care much for the finely tuned balancing of strategies that's going on. At this very least I would lower difficulties of ones that "sound" easy (medium or less), and maybe add an extra, "hey dude this is really hard" notice to extreme/extra hard.
Also regarding turrets, this will particularly hurt players on low difficulties. I've burned through 10s of thousands of steel on my randy extreme so far, caravans have been a necessity, deep drilling is nerfed a lot. It's working for me, and quite comfortably finally after the three year mark now, but it's a rough ride to this point. Honestly turret maintenance may need to be difficulty dependent.
Quote from: Zombull on July 02, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 02, 2018, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: Zombull on July 02, 2018, 03:25:10 PM
To me, the rate of raids on Cassandra/medium gets way too high. I barely get a chance to breathe between them, much less rebuild and restabilize.
I downed, captured and released so many enemies, all but the pirates turned blue. And it seemed the more factions I turned neutral, the faster the raids from the other factions came. Now it's back to back to back raids from the pirates and I can't seem to get anything done in between.
I'm not sure if the other side of this coin has been expressed, in this thread (I'm losing track.) There are some of us that are quite enjoying the current state of difficulty, in the game (I also refer to Cassandra, in this case.) I understand the game must be balanced, for everyone but, is it necessary to nerf the entire game? I'm not sure, having only ever played Extreme where the insane level of difficulty feels GREAT to me personally but, an overall nerf doesn't seem like the right direction for anybody's enjoyment ... Isn't an easy mode offered with Pheobe? I would only ask for careful regard to, perhaps, the upper difficulties if changes absolutely must be made to the challenge level.
I'd be quite sad if Extreme were any easier. How would I satisfy my masochism, then? ;)
I wasn't talking Extreme. I was talking Medium. Formerly called "some challenge". Between the new armor mechanic and the raid changes, it feels like a lot more than "some" now.
Not sure I understand this comment. It was stated that I recognized the difference and comment was even made to please stay away from higher difficulties (thus, inferring an understanding of what you posted.) In any case, I'm not trying to make the easy modes harder. Just want the tough ones to stay tough. And, to be fair ... there is always Phoebe.
Hi,
Just wanna say, love the game.
I have a few questions on trading, things that seem to have changed but i have't seen any patch notes referring to such a change. Albeit, i realise I could have missed the post.
1/ In the unstable build, has the ability to trade 'tainted' or 'worn by dead person' gear been changed? I've not been able to sell any clothing with this mark since the new build.
2/ Thrumb horns... again not had any trader who was willing to buy these since 1.0.
Thanking anyone who can help/comment in advance.
Keep up the brilliant work :)
Quote from: Eldarin1 on July 02, 2018, 11:39:02 AM
Day 11 I get my first item quest: AI persona core guarded by 2 sythers. 4 pawns, 2 guns and 1 pawn non-violent. No chance! Seems like this event was way too strong for a 1st event.
Two Scythers are reasonably easy to deal with either kite the melee ones or melee the ranged. My new tactic for tribal starts is Day one to two - build a hut, get some food and healroot and make some steel or stone clubs.Then I open the ancient danger and fight the contents. I usually have 2-3 ranged and 2-3 melee.
Quote from: Gfurst on July 02, 2018, 12:19:18 PM
First picture was the result of incendiaries on a indoor growbed, though I agree that a situation like should quickly delve into Dante's Inferno (and holy crap do I need firefoam poppers), it felt I little odd that the open room (2 doors, 1 vent, cracked roof) was such an heat trap (+800°C), to the point where all of my base turned went into +200°C. And you know there's something wrong when a walled room with no roof is much more insulated than a open but roofed room. I beg you o review the system though I agree it wont be easy, but an easy workaround to avoid total failures like mine, is to have roof destruction upon a fire like that, so that more heat can escape.
Out of control fires have been this way since I started playing in A17. If that room hadn't been vented and a small hole in the roof it would have been 2000°C. If the room was really unroofed then it wouldn't have been that hot it would have been the same as the outside temp.
Quote from: Greep on July 02, 2018, 01:09:14 PM
Regarding killboxes, they've honestly only ever worked in mountains, it's just most notable now.
I've used killboxes (unturreted at first till researched and then hybrid turret + pawns) successfully in flat, small hills and large hills. Before if you killed the sappers targeting your walls ( or used psychic lances on them) then they would revert to standard raid tactics and thus run in to your kill box. Now they don't they just promote another raider to the role of sapper so they always tunnel in to your base avoiding the killbox. Also raids now often attack from multiple fronts (I even had a siege build two bases on me one north one south of my base).
As it is now in 1.0 unstable mountain bases got a massive buff. Infestations got a big nerf the only downside to a mountain base (if you can't stop them now that they give you time to evacuate the area of the infestation then I dunno what to say), and open field bases got a big nerf in the increase of sappers and drop pod raids at higher wealth levels making killboxes for those bases far less effective.
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 02, 2018, 01:43:46 PM
Can we vent our frustation on the new armor mechanic here? Because if it goes to 1.0, it's a huge downgrade from B18. 50% armor being "50% chance to deflect all damage" is retarded beyond belief, unless someone can explain to me how the damage modifies the deflection chance.
Different weapons have different armour pen which reduces the deflection chance. The biggest issue for me so far has been centipedes but your main options for those is either out ranging them with sniper rifles or mobbing them with clubs which they are weak against.
Quote from: Zombull on July 02, 2018, 03:43:31 PM
I wasn't talking Extreme. I was talking Medium. Formerly called "some challenge". Between the new armor mechanic and the raid changes, it feels like a lot more than "some" now.
The game overall is a little harder and the prevalence of raid types has changed it seems. Late game (or even late first year) sapper and drop pod raids have increased. This makes the game harder as previous standard defences are less useful (killboxes do nothing for these types of raid)
@tynan You inquired about killboxes. As an extreme player and many killboxes made, I have always found them viable in mountain bases and non mountain bases until now. Why waist the resources? and to try and protect turrets all the way around your base may be a severe or impossible task depending on your map. And as mentioned above drills have been changed. I do like the change to the drills but nonetheless it is a change. Though I do not use a killbox on everyone run, they are quite fun to build and should still be viable even in a non mountain base currently. I think the difference i notice most .. is prior the raiders would try to take out your turrets, now they ignore them for the most part on an open base.
I have also found the difficulty of play has escalated, thus i swapped my run to check out the different levels. I did not start on extreme play originally and therefore remember quite well how "some challenge", "rough" etc.. work. I do feel "medium" has also been buffed, maybe too much. I am not saying this on my account, but from a business point of view, those coming in fresh, if they cannot beat the game or have fun in medium, regardless if its a ship run or a long standing colony, may just give up and that is where bad reviews start. This is where they no longer tell there friends to purchase the game.
I have purchased Rimworld for many, have encouraged the game. I have been silent in the forums forever but as this is your final product and desire you to succeed I now write. Please forgive me for my candor.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 02, 2018, 05:15:19 PM
Quote from: Greep on July 02, 2018, 01:09:14 PM
Regarding killboxes, they've honestly only ever worked in mountains, it's just most notable now.
I've used killboxes (unturreted at first till researched and then hybrid turret + pawns) successfully in flat, small hills and large hills. Before if you killed the sappers targeting your walls ( or used psychic lances on them) then they would revert to standard raid tactics and thus run in to your kill box. Now they don't they just promote another raider to the role of sapper so they always tunnel in to your base avoiding the killbox. Also raids now often attack from multiple fronts (I even had a siege build two bases on me one north one south of my base).
As it is now in 1.0 unstable mountain bases got a massive buff. Infestations got a big nerf the only downside to a mountain base (if you can't stop them now that they give you time to evacuate the area of the infestation then I dunno what to say), and open field bases got a big nerf in the increase of sappers and drop pod raids at higher wealth levels making killboxes for those bases far less effective.
I worded that poorly about mountain bases and killboxes. By "eventually" I meant like within 10 years heh. Infestations could be gamed in b18 with really cheesey but effective ways. Notably, they do not appear in rooms of size 15 or less, so you could make your entire fort in 4x3 rooms with 7x2 corridors.
As for killboxes on the plains now, yeah there just is no point. But my general cannon spam is going quite strong :D They really are insane, in a good way. I just killed 14 centipides with only mild assistance.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Trees no longer being under roofs .. along with torches and passive coolers and campfires, not being able to suspend their refuel ... deserts you can plant trees, ice sheet and sea ice you cannot and are dependent upon traders. I love playing on the ice .. have always used the rocky soil near a mountain or hill to plant a few trees. Now not available at all.
A compromise .. A shrubbery/tree such as boxwood that could be grown indoors that would yield a fraction of the wood during harvest?
heh, this is a bug, but it's pretty funny too:
(muffalo was taken by bandits on a caravan)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on July 02, 2018, 05:48:02 PM
As for killboxes on the plains now, yeah there just is no point. But my general cannon spam is going quite strong :D They really are insane, in a good way. I just killed 14 centipides with only mild assistance.
Seems you use only autocannons spread out and that is A LOT of autocannons. Your actual base seems to be less than a quarter of the screenshot most of it is growing plots. Infestations if easily handled before are now even easier. Before you got no time to react now you do.
Given how things are (Tynan has said he has 12 pages of notes for things to work on so as he said he may well be already working on issues we have now) mountain bases are even better than in B18. Every other terrain type got nerfed and mountain got a buff big time.
Quote from: Kralic on July 02, 2018, 05:13:04 PM
Hi,
Just wanna say, love the game.
I have a few questions on trading, things that seem to have changed but i have't seen any patch notes referring to such a change. Albeit, i realise I could have missed the post.
1/ In the unstable build, has the ability to trade 'tainted' or 'worn by dead person' gear been changed? I've not been able to sell any clothing with this mark since the new build.
2/ Thrumb horns... again not had any trader who was willing to buy these since 1.0.
Thanking anyone who can help/comment in advance.
Keep up the brilliant work :)
Not sure about the thrumbo horns but the tainted apparel not selling is intended AFAIK according to patch notes.
"Give us what we want, or your unusually-hairy colonist gets it!"
Also, holy carp, that's a lot of Devilstrand/other crops. How on earth do you store all that stuff?
I'm selling like 3000 silver worth of stuff every comms-called-caravan, 2 caravans every 4 days. My storage is actually nearly empty atm :) Like I said, the cannons eat a lot and cost a lot to build. I do agree mountain might be easier. But the economy on flatter maps is quite good.
A lot of that is also psychite farms. 600 psychite ends up getting turned into one tile of flake for storage.
Edit: Raid balance definitely needs tuning. Last year and a half or so:
3 mechanoid drop pods on top of me
1 mechanoid drop outside base
1 poison ship
1 psychic ship
~2 infestations
~3 drilling too deep
Not a single pirate raid or tribal raid. It does make things more difficult, but it's really samey, and I'm not getting any new colonists. I think all but one of those mech drop pods was in the latest release, so this is using the "fix" to the raid tuning ::)
Edit: Going to go flip off one of the tribals.
QuoteTwo Scythers are reasonably easy to deal with either kite the melee ones or melee the ranged. My new tactic for tribal starts is Day one to two - build a hut, get some food and healroot and make some steel or stone clubs.Then I open the ancient danger and fight the contents. I usually have 2-3 ranged and 2-3 melee.
Scyther outspeeds even luciferium pawn, so you are relying on getting mobility damaging shots on approach, which is far from reliable even with good shooters. H As far as I can tell, mech pain doesn't seem to affect mobility either (at least at low 10%), so you are looking for very specific hits - thorax shots don't cut it. Furthermore, hits aren't guaranteed to cause aggro switches. So I am skeptical of consistency of strat, especially when you can crack ADs containing 4-5 scythe/lancers that infinite aggro you until you leave the map. Of course, you can play around these with specific constructions, but you mention nothing about this.
I also agree from playing the game on extreme on randy and Cassandra, plus dropping it down to rough on both. That the difficulty in this game has never felt better. Past players may need a warning that the previous difficulty they are use to or story teller might not suit them anymore because of these changes but it feels to me any person of basically any age can learn to play this game on the lowest difficulty.
There are minor tweaks that could be made to certain guns/armor but I bet that is already on your to do list. Overall any chances to the actual story teller difficulty would remove the huge amount of enjoyment I am receiving out of 1.0. You've already fixed every way I died at the beginning of this patch that felt cheesy.
Quote from: Greep on July 02, 2018, 06:21:30 PM
heh, this is a bug, but it's pretty funny too:
(muffalo was taken by bandits on a caravan)
I would be 100% in favor of letting raiders who decide to loot steal (docile) tamed animals. And then try to sell them back to you, of course.
Just hope that they aren't good enough to walk off with your thrumbo. :(
Has this been reported? This has to be a bug.
Playing Crashlanded and was given a warg pet. Warg gets hungry and goes hunting an emu. Emu Revenge! Emu bites warg. Warg flees, now Emu is manhunting and comes after my colonists half way across the map.
10 minutes later: Same thing happens.
10 minutes later: Same thing happens, this time with a megascarab.
Quote from: Zombull on July 02, 2018, 09:51:33 PM
Has this been reported? This has to be a bug.
Playing Crashlanded and was given a warg pet. Warg gets hungry and goes hunting an emu. Emu Revenge! Emu bites warg. Warg flees, now Emu is manhunting and comes after my colonists half way across the map.
10 minutes later: Same thing happens.
10 minutes later: Same thing happens, this time with a megascarab.
I mentioned (in an earlier post) about a Warg fleeing after trying to hunt a squirrel. He bit it, the squirrel turned manhunter/revenge... and the Warg fled.
Definitely not how a predator should act. (IMHO)
It was near my base, and the Warg did turn back and start to attack... but only after I drafted my colonists to deal with the squirrel. (and the warg was set to follow its master into combat.)
WTF!? Now the warg charged into the prisoner room and killed and ate the prisoner!?!?
Quote from: bbqftw on July 02, 2018, 07:48:11 PM
QuoteTwo Scythers are reasonably easy to deal with either kite the melee ones or melee the ranged. My new tactic for tribal starts is Day one to two - build a hut, get some food and healroot and make some steel or stone clubs.Then I open the ancient danger and fight the contents. I usually have 2-3 ranged and 2-3 melee.
Scyther outspeeds even luciferium pawn, so you are relying on getting mobility damaging shots on approach, which is far from reliable even with good shooters. H As far as I can tell, mech pain doesn't seem to affect mobility either (at least at low 10%), so you are looking for very specific hits - thorax shots don't cut it. Furthermore, hits aren't guaranteed to cause aggro switches. So I am skeptical of consistency of strat, especially when you can crack ADs containing 4-5 scythe/lancers that infinite aggro you until you leave the map. Of course, you can play around these with specific constructions, but you mention nothing about this.
Scythers die fast. I have had a starting melee pawn one shot a scyther with the starting jade knife. As a starting tribal colony I have taken out an AD with 5 scyther variants with 3 clubs and 2 bows. Mechanoids suck vs melee specifically blunt. The only ones that are scary at all are the melee ones and they still die fast (this is on close range fighting, long range lancers are nasty unless you line of sight them, which you should be doing). Crack an AD and you can normally equip your melee pawns with power armour or at least flak. Tribal you have 5 people you can send v 2 scythers, crashlanded you even get a set of armour to protect your melee pawn to start off with.
What specific constructions do you want? Are you talking about tactics? Things I build? Skills and equipment? From your post it sounds like you are not using terrain to your advantage possibly. (to crack AD I don't build any walls/doors or traps, just use positioning and the chokepoint that is the hole I just made in the wall)
My latest run on the last patch I did a tribal start, 3 melee pawns and 2 ranged, cracked the AD and killed the scythers/lancers, healed up and then popped the 6 caskets and got 3 sets of power armour and 3 full sets of flak (pants, jackets and chest) and 3 chain shotguns (at some point in these two fights one of my pawns lost a leg lucky there was an archeotech leg in there for me). Set up nicely for the rest of the run. Tunneled in to the mountain through the AD (which is now my new base, lots of free space) and found a second AD while mining for rooms.
You said you had 4 pawns. Even if one cannot fight they can be bait / kite the enemies to give you flanking or advantageous shots. Unless you pick pawns with no combat skills at all it should be doable. Worth risking a caravan for? Possibly. Don't forget you have quite some time before the mission expires (had 20 day + timers IIRC on missions like that). Use that time to prepare armour and weapons (hope for more pawns to join as well).
I wouldn't crack an AD as crashlanded early personally as you already have decent weapons ( and now armour) but as a tribal start it is well worth it as you won't get gear that good for a long time and you have the manpower to handle it.
Quote from: Greep on July 02, 2018, 04:25:03 PM
Feedback from players on the ludeon forums is mostly hardcore players, even a lot of the lurkers finally posting are also hardcore players you'll notice.
This cannot be underscored enough, IMO. Posters here and on Reddit are almost certainly not a statistically representative sample of who plays the game. Plus, there's enough hyperbole and exaggeration mixed in with genuine high skill that one can get the false impression that B18 was too easy at any difficulty level.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 02, 2018, 10:53:41 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on July 02, 2018, 07:48:11 PM
QuoteTwo Scythers are reasonably easy to deal with either kite the melee ones or melee the ranged. My new tactic for tribal starts is Day one to two - build a hut, get some food and healroot and make some steel or stone clubs.Then I open the ancient danger and fight the contents. I usually have 2-3 ranged and 2-3 melee.
Scyther outspeeds even luciferium pawn, so you are relying on getting mobility damaging shots on approach, which is far from reliable even with good shooters. H As far as I can tell, mech pain doesn't seem to affect mobility either (at least at low 10%), so you are looking for very specific hits - thorax shots don't cut it. Furthermore, hits aren't guaranteed to cause aggro switches. So I am skeptical of consistency of strat, especially when you can crack ADs containing 4-5 scythe/lancers that infinite aggro you until you leave the map. Of course, you can play around these with specific constructions, but you mention nothing about this.
Scythers die fast. I have had a starting melee pawn one shot a scyther with the starting jade knife. As a starting tribal colony I have taken out an AD with 5 scyther variants with 3 clubs and 2 bows. Mechanoids suck vs melee specifically blunt. The only ones that are scary at all are the melee ones and they still die fast (this is on close range fighting, long range lancers are nasty unless you line of sight them, which you should be doing). Crack an AD and you can normally equip your melee pawns with power armour or at least flak. Tribal you have 5 people you can send v 2 scythers, crashlanded you even get a set of armour to protect your melee pawn to start off with.
What specific constructions do you want? Are you talking about tactics? Things I build? Skills and equipment? From your post it sounds like you are not using terrain to your advantage possibly. (to crack AD I don't build any walls/doors or traps, just use positioning and the chokepoint that is the hole I just made in the wall)
My latest run on the last patch I did a tribal start, 3 melee pawns and 2 ranged, cracked the AD and killed the scythers/lancers, healed up and then popped the 6 caskets and got 3 sets of power armour and 3 full sets of flak (pants, jackets and chest) and 3 chain shotguns (at some point in these two fights one of my pawns lost a leg lucky there was an archeotech leg in there for me). Set up nicely for the rest of the run. Tunneled in to the mountain through the AD (which is now my new base, lots of free space) and found a second AD while mining for rooms.
You said you had 4 pawns. Even if one cannot fight they can be bait / kite the enemies to give you flanking or advantageous shots. Unless you pick pawns with no combat skills at all it should be doable. Worth risking a caravan for? Possibly. Don't forget you have quite some time before the mission expires (had 20 day + timers IIRC on missions like that). Use that time to prepare armour and weapons (hope for more pawns to join as well).
I wouldn't crack an AD as crashlanded early personally as you already have decent weapons ( and now armour) but as a tribal start it is well worth it as you won't get gear that good for a long time and you have the manpower to handle it.
Are you talking the infinite aggro one, or the one that are leashed to the ADs? The one that will chase you across the entire map is the dangerous variant, the other type is far less dangerous.
In any case, meleeing a scyther = subject to spontaneous amputation. It is fine to discuss inconsistent strats but nice to label them as such. Thus I mention constructions that would allow you to bail if you run into truly dangerous AD variants.
I haven't actually tried cracking ADs with anything but NB starts (will try some CL tonight), but for NB it feels like more of a necessity more than anything.
Nevertheless, I will test out blunt weps vs. the mech variants. Its interesting, even if its inconsistent it can be useful.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 02, 2018, 11:55:27 AM
Armor penetration is derived stat that is based on damage and scales linearly with it.
I actually can disregard armor mechanic for sniper rifles.
Sorry to be rude but... that's not only technically untrue but shows a misunderstanding of the underlying mechanics.
Armor penetration (currently)wanders somewhere in the range of 145-155% of weapon damage. There are however exceptions.
Unless the AP %'s are identical (Which mostly isn't the case) you have to consider them.
Here's an example:
The dps of an AR at short range is 7.38, CR 8.47, 16/22% AP respectively
Vs a 100% sharp armor flak vest 84% of AR and 78% of CR shots are affected by armor, therefore half of them deflect and half of them do 50% blunt damage. Essentially all shots affected by armor do an average of 25% damage.
16% of AR's dps is unmitigated (1.18), 84% is reduced by 75% (1.55dps) (2.73)
22% of CR's dps is unmitigated (1.86), 78% is reduced by 75% (1.65dps) (3.51)
Vs an unarmored target CR's do 14.7% more dps than ARs
Vs a flak vest CR's do 28.5% more dps than ARs.
And these numbers change significantly as you alter the armor value of the target.
As for your assertion that:
Quote
Proper sniper shot is essentially a free action
That's ridiculous. That's like saying " If my opponent has no arms, legs, or eyes, I could make him a great mushroom omelette with a side of elephant ears."
Being able to manufacture any given scenario does not mean that the the infinitely large number of other scenarios cease to exist.
There are times when the AP of long range weapons matters, end of discussion.
If you want to compare various weapons in various scenarios then that's fine, but make sure you've got your math right and make sure you're accounting for scenarios outside the ones that you're imagining but not communicating. Otherwise you're just spreading misinformation disguised as fact with poor underlying math.
Quote
Feedback from players on the ludeon forums is mostly hardcore players, even a lot of the lurkers finally posting are also hardcore players you'll notice.
Quote
This cannot be underscored enough, IMO. Posters here and on Reddit are almost certainly not a statistically representative sample of who plays the game. Plus, there's enough hyperbole and exaggeration mixed in with genuine high skill that one can get the false impression that B18 was too easy at any difficulty level.
Can't help but agree, but at least it's reasonably transparent. It's undoubtedly part of the reason that Tynan is so keen to get first time poster's thoughts. We all derive what it is to be normal by constantly looking at the people around us and if all those people are constantly raving on about how they only play tribal extreme on ice sheet then that's going to have an effect :P
As mentioned though it's fairly transparent, and there are ways for experienced players to step back and take a fresh look at things. Assessing
why they know something or do something in particular is always a good start.
Why do you hate non-violent pawns and when was the last time you actually recruited one for example.
Bah, animal just ate luciferium. I thought that was not supposed to happen anymore, or did people just say they hate that and nothing changed? ::)
So, Darg's Dregs are plodding along: it's now year 5505, and tech is zooming along now that our resident Depressive Cannibal Misandrist is at Research 19. Going to fulfill my first trade request in the form of 4 Bolt-Action Rifles for 17 Luciferium (read: extra silver).
Some things I've noticed:
-The time to don armor means that there's virtually no reason to ever walk around in civilian clothing. In the time it takes to go through a couple doors and don an Advanced Helmet, Flak Vest and Flak Pants, the enemy has managed to cross about half of a large map. You'd think that armor would be something only worn occasionally, but with the current donning times, that's basically impossible.
-The nerf to door health is killer. My Granite doors are less than half as sturdy as the walls around them, despite costing five times as much material and imposing severe movement restrictions on pawns going through them.
-Raider retreat pathing is kind of weird. I've had pirates try to flee through my base, even when they're outside my perimeter wall.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 02, 2018, 07:48:11 PM
QuoteTwo Scythers are reasonably easy to deal with either kite the melee ones or melee the ranged. My new tactic for tribal starts is Day one to two - build a hut, get some food and healroot and make some steel or stone clubs.Then I open the ancient danger and fight the contents. I usually have 2-3 ranged and 2-3 melee.
Scyther outspeeds even luciferium pawn, so you are relying on getting mobility damaging shots on approach, which is far from reliable even with good shooters. H As far as I can tell, mech pain doesn't seem to affect mobility either (at least at low 10%), so you are looking for very specific hits - thorax shots don't cut it. Furthermore, hits aren't guaranteed to cause aggro switches. So I am skeptical of consistency of strat, especially when you can crack ADs containing 4-5 scythe/lancers that infinite aggro you until you leave the map. Of course, you can play around these with specific constructions, but you mention nothing about this.
For the record it was a crash-landed start, default settings on Cassandra medium. of my 4 pawns, 1 was non-violent. I had a rifle, a pistol, and a knife. It was day 11, so all gear was default as well. Jet the Officer had the rifle and the armor. The scene was a goodie quest, so the scythers were asleep on arrival.
I tried several save scums to win the day, and nothing worked. The scythers were both melee and very fast. No amount of kiting could overcome their speed advantage, and no amount of damage ever downed even 1 scyther before all 4 pwns died. in the end i continued my run without the quest, as I'm trying to give a noob perspective of 1.0
Soaking Wet is a strange debuff...
lemme gather my thoughts....
i posted this before
"shallow water - wet
chest-deep water - soaked
deep water - drenched
drenched - lowers personal temp by 10 fades to ;
soaked - lowers personal temp by 6, fades to ;
wet - lowers personal temp by 4
shade also lowers personal temp by 6
and wind multiplies these by up to 200%, so a pawn can seek cooler temp in shade and in water, and the breeze too can lower your temp, so extreme desert survival can be possible but also ice sheet survival can be even harder"
perhaps what we need is a wetness counter, getting a little wet in the rain can turn to soaked and drenched over an hour in addition to what i said regarding the water depths, counter decreases over time depending on heat, a drenched colonist in 30c can dry in an hour, a drenched colonist in 0c will stay wet and die of hypothermia.
naturally wetness temp is like -10 / wetcount * windspeed
light > 50% increases drying speed, as well as temp
mood debuff should only count for clothed people, or cold people, nekked people in the sunshine love water, save for those with traits that tell them they dont like water, they should love it. you can even include a trait for weirdos who love soggy underwear perhaps on a spectrum.
soggy undie lovers
normal
aquaphobes
+++
swimming as a stat and a trait to match
fishlike - 100% ignores water speed reduction
olympic swimmer - 50% ignore
normal
sinker - 50% increased water reduction
oh maybe muddy should be a thing from soaked + walking through dirt and/or mud
also maybe quicksand, u dont want your pawns standing in that
on the same thought, tarpits...... u def dont wanna stand in that
...... falling asleep......... goodnight
Quote from: ZE on July 03, 2018, 01:19:47 AM
...... falling asleep......... goodnight
Goodnight, sweet prince. Your ideas are neat, though perhaps too complicated and niche to earn priority over what's currently being developed.
So here's s my experience (just registered to post this).
NOTE: I was used to having quite some mods, but for my playthrough that should be irrelevant.
Phoebe chillax, base builder.
Crashlanded on a temperate forest coast, because I like having one side less to care about. Probably the most defensible layout ever, since I had a sort of smile-like mountain enclosing a beach and some fertile soil, except the sides and a front canyon.
I claim a neraby structure, fill the holes and add a door, here's my stock warehouse.
I start building my settlement and sowing the seeds of love, ehm rice.
By the time summer turns in, I already had a manhunter raccoon (easily dispatched) and a lone attacker (captured, 99% recruiting difficulty).
I still have no fridge as my initial 3 pawns have too low construction skill, so no power for me.
I decide to try and tame an alpaca, just in case I need wool. Second attempt fails badly and the alpaca and friends turn mnhunter. The tamer has a knife but goes down almost immediately.
Rifleman (fully armored) and gunman join the fight, they go down as well.
Ragequit.
Probably I could have included at least one good fighter in the original pawns, but still losing a colony to enraged alpacas felt so sad, considering how in my last b18 I was having a full military dept armed to the teeth :)
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 02, 2018, 10:53:41 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on July 02, 2018, 07:48:11 PM
QuoteTwo Scythers are reasonably easy to deal with either kite the melee ones or melee the ranged. My new tactic for tribal starts is Day one to two - build a hut, get some food and healroot and make some steel or stone clubs.Then I open the ancient danger and fight the contents. I usually have 2-3 ranged and 2-3 melee.
Scyther outspeeds even luciferium pawn, so you are relying on getting mobility damaging shots on approach, which is far from reliable even with good shooters. H As far as I can tell, mech pain doesn't seem to affect mobility either (at least at low 10%), so you are looking for very specific hits - thorax shots don't cut it. Furthermore, hits aren't guaranteed to cause aggro switches. So I am skeptical of consistency of strat, especially when you can crack ADs containing 4-5 scythe/lancers that infinite aggro you until you leave the map. Of course, you can play around these with specific constructions, but you mention nothing about this.
Scythers die fast. I have had a starting melee pawn one shot a scyther with the starting jade knife. As a starting tribal colony I have taken out an AD with 5 scyther variants with 3 clubs and 2 bows. Mechanoids suck vs melee specifically blunt. The only ones that are scary at all are the melee ones and they still die fast (this is on close range fighting, long range lancers are nasty unless you line of sight them, which you should be doing). Crack an AD and you can normally equip your melee pawns with power armour or at least flak. Tribal you have 5 people you can send v 2 scythers, crashlanded you even get a set of armour to protect your melee pawn to start off with.
What specific constructions do you want? Are you talking about tactics? Things I build? Skills and equipment? From your post it sounds like you are not using terrain to your advantage possibly. (to crack AD I don't build any walls/doors or traps, just use positioning and the chokepoint that is the hole I just made in the wall)
My latest run on the last patch I did a tribal start, 3 melee pawns and 2 ranged, cracked the AD and killed the scythers/lancers, healed up and then popped the 6 caskets and got 3 sets of power armour and 3 full sets of flak (pants, jackets and chest) and 3 chain shotguns (at some point in these two fights one of my pawns lost a leg lucky there was an archeotech leg in there for me). Set up nicely for the rest of the run. Tunneled in to the mountain through the AD (which is now my new base, lots of free space) and found a second AD while mining for rooms.
You said you had 4 pawns. Even if one cannot fight they can be bait / kite the enemies to give you flanking or advantageous shots. Unless you pick pawns with no combat skills at all it should be doable. Worth risking a caravan for? Possibly. Don't forget you have quite some time before the mission expires (had 20 day + timers IIRC on missions like that). Use that time to prepare armour and weapons (hope for more pawns to join as well).
I wouldn't crack an AD as crashlanded early personally as you already have decent weapons ( and now armour) but as a tribal start it is well worth it as you won't get gear that good for a long time and you have the manpower to handle it.
out of curiosity, I tried your 2 bows / 3 club setup with decent tribal pawns (6-12 in melee, with one 11 shooter) vs solo scyther - notes are documented on damage to my pawns, as well as relevant factors in the fight. Since you mention day 2-3, I assume you use wooden clubs. Bows typically got one~ shot on approach, afterwards they are positioned at close range to avoid friendly fire.
significant damage
no damage - first club brain destroyed
no damage - early stun
one hit
4 hits, one downed - almost guaranteed death if neck infection reaches extreme
1 hit
3+ hits, 1 downed - ear lost
no damage - first hit stun
no damage
3+ hits
so overall, it can work, but it might not. Surprisingly no amputations, though scyther at ~17-19 damage hits just needs to hit the limb twice to cause this.
5v2 scyther with optimized focus firing (4v1 one scyther while melee screening the other) results in following:
2 downs, one would die to a torso infection almost certainly
1 down with lots of damage taken on the other two meleers
In any case, enough damage for me to tell that 5v2 is not typically advisable, unless I am doing something quite different from you. Of course, the equation changes if you are able to strip some power armor before you start fighting mechs, but that's hardly going to be the probable scenario when cracking ADs.
New build. No huge changes. Still processing a lot of feedback.
---
Fix: neurotrainers use wrong label for FloatMenu option.
Fix 3484: Major food poisoning doesn't actually affect eating capacity
Fix 3480: 'ProgressToNextPortion' on deep drill's inspection panel is untranslated
Pawns can now use bedrolls while caravaning.
Darkness debuff now longer applies to night owls.
Site letters now mention how many turrets there are.
Site letters now mention how many sleeping mechanoids there are.
Site letters now mention how many manhunting animals there are.
Mini-turret range 22.9 -> 24.9.
Fix: Autocannon turret radius mismatch with placing display radius.
Adjusted training decay rate a bit; slightly harder for low-wildness animals and slightly easier for high-wildness animals.
Adjusted nutrition of grass.
Reduce disease incidence overall ~10%.
Death on downed chance for non colony humans now relates to population intent.
Letter close button text "dismiss" -> "close" for clarity in case of quests. e.g. it's not "dismissing" the quest.
Watermill generator 1200W -> 1100W.
Fix: Assault rifle description mentions three-round bursts.
Fix: Kick dirt in eyes freezes pawn in place for 15 seconds.
Wimp effect is a bit softer.
Fix: Mismatch between the reported reason for a social fight and the social log text of the interaction leading to the social fight.
Fix: Food poisoning cause is almost always unknown.
Increase explosive radius of EMP and firefoam artillery.
Standardize plant immature graphic paths. Change raspberry bush to berry bush and made it blue (for color-blind visibility).
Adjusted mature cocoa tree graphic so it doesn't look like it's blighted. Cocoa trees now have an immature graphic.
Impacting drop pods now awaken animals.
Reduces size of hilliness overlay images (512->128).
Tending with tend time left now extends the old time instead of replacing it. Refactored how tending time is managed a bit.
Text: Failed -> Botched
Cool changes. Finally colonists learned to scout! Yay.
Night owls no longer scared of nighttime lack of light. Another solid yay.
Less diseases is always a good change. Finally.
Please explain a bit more about this one:
- Death on downed chance for non colony humans now relates to population intent.
Does that mean raider death chance scales with the amount of people you have or with how close you are to your storyteller's population limit. On Randy you can have a lot of people, up to 50 correct?
And i d also like to know how much it actually does scale. Whats the chance for a raider to survive when you're at 13 colonists on Cassie? Since it does affect diplomacy part of the game.
hi tynan, glad to finally see 1.0, looking foward to play it when fully released.
any chance temperature overlay will be implemented to main game? i always missed that feature, in game :D
Quote from: Madman666 on July 02, 2018, 07:47:57 AM
Damn, that door change is just atrocious, 140 hp on steel door is bad enough, but wood ones are just a decoration. 56 hp on a door. Like seriously. A bush (!) has twice as much hp. I am quite tempted to just wall myself in completely and only dig out a way outside when i need it.
I appreciate feedback, but just calling something "atrocious" is dragging down the constructive atmosphere here. There's no design content to this post. It's pure complaint and pure theorycrafting. Don't do this please.
Write about an experience you had, or some logical thoughts about why the design makes the game better or worse or how it could be changed, please. Simply having to change strategy doesn't mean the game is worse. Are the new strategies more or less interesting/cheesy/varied? Etc.
Above all, speak of experiences not theories. Reactions to changelists are not useful; experiences and thoughts based on experiences are.
And btw door HP relates to building material so if you want stronger ones use steel or plasteel.
Hi, I have a quality of life suggestion. I've been playing tribal and I put down a game of Ur board, but for ages nobody used it and I didn't realise it needed chairs next to it (don't think this requirement is listed anywhere in game). I suggest showing faded chair outlines (like for the workstations) either side of the board, where the players would actually sit. I looked up the game of Ur and players should sit perpendicular to the length of the board, on either side.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 04:56:00 AM
I appreciate feedback, but just calling something "atrocious" is dragging down the constructive atmosphere here. There's no design content to this post. It's pure complaint and pure theorycrafting. Don't do this please.
Write about an experience you had, or some logical thoughts about why the design makes the game better or worse or how it could be changed, please. Simply having to change strategy doesn't mean the game is worse. Are the new strategies more or less interesting/cheesy/varied? Etc.
Above all, speak of experiences not theories. Reactions to changelists are not useful; experiences and thoughts based on experiences are.
And btw door HP relates to building material so if you want stronger ones use steel or plasteel.
Yep, i admit, this is more of a complaint and I guess this is theorycrafting, since this exact comment is based on my previous experience not current one. Doors always were weakest link in player's structures. Either they are too weak (wood, steel) or they are too slow (stone). Now they are twice as weak. So i'll have to either use stone doors for houses, construct double\triple doors, which is kind of silly, or i ll have to rush plasteel, to use it for doors, so that it won't fly away from couple deer kicks, which is wasteful and aren't really viable early to mid game.
Sorry for not offering anything more deep. I am starting a new run, so next time, i ll properly tell a story, about how weak doors lead to mahunters eating my face off and offer some thoughs of why doors shouldn't be so weak.
Quote from: JavaWho on July 02, 2018, 05:17:11 PMI have purchased Rimworld for many, have encouraged the game. I have been silent in the forums forever but as this is your final product and desire you to succeed I now write. Please forgive me for my candor.
Hey I appreciate all the feedback! From you and everyone else who takes the time.
Quote from: East on July 01, 2018, 04:48:13 PM
It was updated and I enjoyed the game for a while.
The door was very weak. In the early game, when the pirates started attacking the door, they were instantly destroyed.
Even animal door attacks are threatening.
The enemy's reaction is really fast.
And the move locking in reloadtime was lengthened, which made control difficult.
Because it is possible to cancel the attack during the warm-up time, but it can not be canceled at the reload time and can not respond quickly to changes in the situation (for example, if the enemy approaches).
If you were trying to help a ranged weapon against melee, the result was totally the opposite. melee will avoid shooting at long distances and easily catch distances that do not move long reload time.
Personally, it is fun to have some balance between warm up and reload.
In early games, wooden doors(56HP) are an inevitable choice.
The entrance is not the only one, and a lot of iron needs to be consumed in order to build many entrances with steel.
In a late game, even the pre-patch killzon's plasteel door does not guarantee safety.
In my last fight video I see the doors and stone walls destroyed. This is based on my experience, not my simple theory or complaint.
Both the experience before the door patch and the experience after the door patch have been considered.
Manhunter packs often attack specific doors during initial entry.
Even the steel doors before the door patch were easily destroyed in the Manhunter pack. The health of the door patch is really low.
This video is the manhunter pack before the patch when the door was 250. In this video you will think again about weakening the door. Look until the ostrich is all caught.
https://youtu.be/Isi0s_yed0k?t=4h11m59s
It's not just the Manhunter Pack. The door to most raids is a weakness. As battle gets longer, it will inevitably depend on the durability of walls and doors.
For reference, I think i'm a very hardcore player. For starters, this door patch will be too difficult. I am also difficult.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 03, 2018, 04:37:59 AM
Please explain a bit more about this one:
- Death on downed chance for non colony humans now relates to population intent.
Does that mean raider death chance scales with the amount of people you have or with how close you are to your storyteller's population limit. On Randy you can have a lot of people, up to 50 correct?
And i d also like to know how much it actually does scale. Whats the chance for a raider to survive when you're at 13 colonists on Cassie? Since it does affect diplomacy part of the game.
I'm actually deliberately not giving exact figures on this because I want to avoid the prejudgment and theorycrafting. The experience is the important thing, and that's what I'm trying to get information about. So play the game and find out the experience for yourself! Even better, you'll be able to appreciate the experience instead of having your perception colored by a sort of changelist theorycrafted placebo effect.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 04:56:00 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on July 02, 2018, 07:47:57 AM
Damn, that door change is just atrocious, 140 hp on steel door is bad enough, but wood ones are just a decoration. 56 hp on a door. Like seriously. A bush (!) has twice as much hp. I am quite tempted to just wall myself in completely and only dig out a way outside when i need it.
I appreciate feedback, but just calling something "atrocious" is dragging down the constructive atmosphere here. There's no design content to this post. It's pure complaint and pure theorycrafting. Don't do this please.
Write about an experience you had, or some logical thoughts about why the design makes the game better or worse or how it could be changed, please. Simply having to change strategy doesn't mean the game is worse. Are the new strategies more or less interesting/cheesy/varied? Etc.
Above all, speak of experiences not theories. Reactions to changelists are not useful; experiences and thoughts based on experiences are.
And btw door HP relates to building material so if you want stronger ones use steel or plasteel.
Just thought I'd point out that you're dealing with a lot of people who aren't native English speakers. What one word means to someone in one country, may not mean the same in another. If it can be taken in a non-offensive way, that's probably the way it was intended.
So cheer up, Tynan, we all love you!
<3
P.S: I will still murder you in-game because you overpowered the damn mechanoids. Fair is fair.
Quote from: robno on July 03, 2018, 05:04:39 AM
Hi, I have a quality of life suggestion. I've been playing tribal and I put down a game of Ur board, but for ages nobody used it and I didn't realise it needed chairs next to it (don't think this requirement is listed anywhere in game). I suggest showing faded chair outlines (like for the workstations) either side of the board, where the players would actually sit. I looked up the game of Ur and players should sit perpendicular to the length of the board, on either side.
Really good note, this sort of "well duh of course it needs fixing" stuff is useful too. It's not quite a bug, but close, and we'll definitely change it.
Small suggestion: lavish meals can help curing food poisoning if eaten when the pawn is hungry (to avoid exploit).
I have to agree that the door changes are a bit rough. Usually i would go for inner wooden and outer granite doors, but with the recent changes granite isn't worth it anymore with the slow opening and the reduced HP. Enemies destroy them way to fast soo i just resort to open hallways now. Later on when plasteel doors become available, i tend to use them for inner doors as before i would use them for outer as they would give me fast movement and provide enough time to move my paws into position before they got destroyed. Now it just feels like a waste of plasteel and im forced to use double doors and micromanage them by keeping the second "buffer" granite door open and close them before a raid.
Buffing the slower opening doors would be appreciated as they already have a drawback to using them. And maybe buff the plasteel door by a tiny bit as that is a harder to get material soo using them can get quite expensive.
Just my 2 cents :)
Edit: When i say granite doors i mean all stone block doors, just that granite is best soo i always use them :P
Quote from: East on July 03, 2018, 05:39:53 AM
Manhunter packs often attack specific doors during initial entry.
Mahunters will only attack doors if they see a pawn go through the door (unless there's a bug). Typically this happens when people are trying to have their colonists pop out to take potshots at the manhunters, which is intended to be non-viable as a strategy because it's micro-y and boring to execute and I don't want the game pushing players to engage boring activities. Making it less viable is a major motivator for the door HP change. Overall doors aren't supposed to be fortifications, they're more about prisoners, room edges, and temperature control than absorbing damage and controlling enemy movement.
That said I'm gonna look at the HP gap between steel and wood, 56hp wood and 140hp steel seems a bit stark.
After 100+ hours in 1.0, I suppose I can word my experience.
There is no feeling of progression. I can get best weapons, but I wouldn't feel powerful. I can craft power armors, but I wouldn't feel protected. I can set turrets, but I wouldn't feel defended. I can build thickest walls, but I would still feel totally exposed.
I always thought that Glitter Tech mod is stupidly overpowered. Now I'm seriously considering to use it because it actually offers things that would make a difference.
Quick notes:
animals:
*we don't see bonded animals on trade screen, it may be on the to do list, but it's tedious to keep a list of bonded pets when we trade
*food preference: i'm ok with pets eating fine meals since they may look attractive, but i' don't think my dog would go for corn over fresh meat, maybe they could have a need threshold before going for veggies?
pawns control:
*we can mass assign pawns with shift click but only for "unrestricted" and "home zone". But i often have a semi-restricted zone "colony" and a "safe zone". The home zone is needed to set which building will be repaired and which zone will be cleaned, which includes unsafe external walls. It'd be nice to be able to mass assign pawns and animals to a given zone in one click (since i swap between "safe" / "colony" after and before each raid)
berserk prisoners:
*iirc the last berserk prisoners who was 'accidently' killed gave a mood debuff to the colony for innocent prisoner died. I think had he simply punched a colonist first he would have been deemed guilty. What about considering berserk prisoners as guilty by default? Waiting to be punched doesn't add much.
*on the other hand a berserk colonist attacked friendlies without diplomatic penalty, i liked that, "don't mind, he's crazy".
quests:
*still on the end game, i got quests for a lump of plasteel, guarded by 40 tribespeople. Needless to say, the only incentive to go there would be to take prisoners, not to mine plasteel.
*same for an outpost, guarded by 24 priates for a prosthetic heart.
The scaling is a nice touch, but maybe the rewards could be related to the threat? In the end game i craft my own bionic parts, still orbital targeter/antigrain warheads and archotech parts are really attractive.
*i had a trade offer for ~2000 plainleather vs 6 antigrain warhead, it felt like a wild card for the end game sequence
After 8 years i've had 8 rez serum, 4 healer mechs, 10 antigrain warhead, 2 orbital targert and a few archotech parts. Maybe these high valuable rewards should not be totally rng, like at least you'd have to fight for 6 antigrain warheads
*refugee opportunity was unguarded, i think it's rng but still think it's unreasonable to have 5 mechs around a dying pawn
caravans:
*ambushes are less dangerous mid game with the down tuning of threats, new armor system and bionic parts
*still, doctoring seems weird, i got a pawn caught a disease in a caravan, sent a decent doctor with regular meds, assigned him to doctor, reformed caravan... tending quality turned out to be 23%. the only explanation i have is another shitty doctor not assigned to doctor did the treatment in the caravan. Maybe check for the the best available doctor first?
*still on disease, i hope bedrolls could boost immunity when you rest on the world map
*i like how we can select installed furnitures when we reform the caravan, it helped a lot not to lose valuable sculptures or vanometric power cells
*caravaning gives many trade opportunities, i simply control my wealth, have 500k colony and still can't trade for 1/3 of what's offered to me. but it's a good way to get gold and items
inspirations:
*this has been mentioned but some inspirations seem off with the pawns capabilities. maybe they should be somewhat tailored to the pawn
lost pawns:
*i've had a few pawns ran wild and kidnapped over the years, day ~525 still no news. Are they lost forever? I know the life expectancy of a wild man on my map isn't great but it would be fun to see them coming back years later, why not in a raid.
*i haven't have ransom demand, but maybe it's because i've made peace with the factions
diplomatic system:
*it seems the right balance to be friendly with neighbours. I don't have much difficulty keeping our relations at allies, selling tattered cloths
*friendlies are still desperately weak, i call them to fight mad rats or a few half dead mechs hanging out while my pawns go to rest. I'd be to buff them even at a significantly higher cost to call them
end game:
*with bionic parts and charge lances we eventually get over the curve to fight enemies home safely, it takes longer than in B18 but it fleshes out the mid game.
*it took 1 year to build the ship (30 caskets), i think requirements have been decreased since i finished it, but i also took advantage of this year to upgrade my base with uranium peripheral walls (2-3 lumps of uranium are enough now that it's no longer a precious material) and check how i could withstand the raids
*end game sequence: i'm waiting for the caravan to come home to warmup the reactor, we'll see what happens...
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:09:46 AM
Mahunters will only attack doors if they see a pawn go through the door (unless there's a bug).
The first door that broke in the video is that, just as soon as the event is up, the colonist is brought right into the base.
I tried to control the coloinist through the internal zoning and it was a mistake. I made a mistake in setting the zone for one person. The door was immediately destroyed.
Do i need perfect play?
It does not mean that only wooden doors are weakened. Even the iron means that it has become a wooden gate. There is a difference between 56 and 140, but 140 is weak.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:09:46 AM
Quote from: East on July 03, 2018, 05:39:53 AM
Manhunter packs often attack specific doors during initial entry.
Mahunters will only attack doors if they see a pawn go through the door (unless there's a bug). Typically this happens when people are trying to have their colonists pop out to take potshots at the manhunters, which is intended to be non-viable as a strategy because it's micro-y and boring to execute and I don't want the game pushing players to engage boring activities. Making it less viable is a major motivator for the door HP change. Overall doors aren't supposed to be fortifications, they're more about prisoners, room edges, and temperature control than absorbing damage and controlling enemy movement.
That said I'm gonna look at the HP gap between steel and wood, 56hp wood and 140hp steel seems a bit stark.
Tynan, I also have seen what hes reporting. I had my base surrounded by walls but with an open entrance to the north, but a manhunter pack of squirrels showed in the east and a A LOT of them started attacking the east door. All of my pawns were inside the walls and neither werent out or didnt go out.
After some time they decided to go to the north entrance, but it was after attacking that specific random door that luckily didnt break but was left at 4% lol. This was last week, idk if you changed something in the behavior after that.
I'm taking a bug report for the manhunter door thing.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:36:53 AM
I'm taking a bug report for the manhunter door thing.
Do you have any thoughts on your new armor calculations? Are you keeping that abomination, thinking on reverting, redesigning....
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:09:46 AM
Mahunters will only attack doors if they see a pawn go through the door (unless there's a bug). Typically this happens when people are trying to have their colonists pop out to take potshots at the manhunters, which is intended to be non-viable as a strategy because it's micro-y and boring to execute and I don't want the game pushing players to engage boring activities.
I honestly found this to be part of the fun actually. Maybe it's because I'm a Starcraft 2 or "RTS in general" player. Manhunter packs always felt very powerful to me (at least after the early game) I barely had weapons when I got attacked by EIGHT(!) megasloths. The micro is what allowed me to beat them, even though with bad injuries on most colonists. Without potshots I run one colonists out as bait, have him kite the animals and the others shoot. That is way more annoying.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 03, 2018, 06:10:34 AM
There is no feeling of progression. I can get best weapons, but I wouldn't feel powerful. I can craft power armors, but I wouldn't feel protected.
With these two points I have to agree Tynan. It was better in B18, but even there it felt somewhat meh. In my recent tribal playthrough I had everyone with Greatbows. Since I had to make 30 for a caravan request I managed to get a masterwork and everyone else with excellent Greatbows (I of course only give the worst to the request). Now I forgot to upgrade my colonists weapons until I was nearly at the charge rifle. So I got a poison ship that spawned several scythers, I think 2 centipedes and 1-2 lancers. Greatbows have high damage and rather good armorpen (27% I think) and they obliterated the mechs. WITH FREAKING BOWS. It even felt like they were vastly out-damaging my previous colony which had more people and everyone had good machine pistols.
What I'm trying to say... the gap between early weapons and late weapons is rather tiny. Sure that has it's advantages too (tribals not being trivial enemies) but I think it's just too tiny. There is no point upgrading your weapons step-by-step. Especially since all weapon research can be rushed through in one go. Each takes small amounts of research only and they have basically the same pre-requisites (it's good to rush micro-electronics anyway for the 100% research speed). So basically if you start with tribal you go Greatbow -> LMG/Assaultrifle/Charge Weapons. Stuff inbetween gets used if you scavenge it, but rather pointless spending work/materials on it.
And armor... well get flak armor and advanced helmets, you're good to go. Available really early.
It is good to make the door less practical. But I need another alternative. There is no alternative now. sapper and base enemy drop and manhunter pack will absolutely depend on the door.
Even a fight with an early rabbit is dangerous. They are wounded and infected.
With good weapons and good armor, just fight and shed blood! Like a World Map battle! So I do not fight World Map until I have enough weapons and armor. It shows terrible infections and high loss rates.
Is not it fun to show different results depending on the control than just fighting with good weapons and armor?
This game is not an RTS game. Colonies die easily and can not be reproduced.
This is like running some kind of RPG or XCOM. The loss of each one is very large and the recovery of the wound is slow and dangerous.
I continue to report that the risk to the world map is great.
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 03, 2018, 06:41:09 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:36:53 AM
I'm taking a bug report for the manhunter door thing.
Do you have any thoughts on your new armor calculations? Are you keeping that abomination, thinking on reverting, redesigning....
I'd have to hear some reason why, most people here seem to like it from what I can tell. Make sure you're aware of the latest changes since the unstable build.
Quote from: East on July 03, 2018, 06:43:48 AM
It is good to make the door less practical. But I need another alternative. There is no alternative now. sapper and base enemy drop and manhunter pack will absolutely depend on the door.
Even a fight with an early rabbit is dangerous. They are wounded and infected.
With good weapons and good armor, just fight and shed blood! Like a World Map battle! So I do not fight World Map until I have enough weapons and armor. It shows terrible infections and high loss rates.
Is not it fun to show different results depending on the control than just fighting with good weapons and armor?
This game is not an RTS game. Colonies die easily and can not be reproduced.
This is like running some kind of RPG or XCOM. The loss of each one is very large and the recovery of the wound is slow and dangerous.
I continue to report that the risk to the world map is great.
After you nerf an exploit-y strategy, the game will often become harder/too hard. The solution then generally isn't to bring back the cheesy strategy, but to redesign/rebalance game to be nicely playable without the cheesy strategy. So I may end up e.g. nerfing the manhunters, for example.
Played a longer session yesterday, fiddled with autocannons a little bit more. Seems it was simply me misunderstanding them at first - they actually work quite well if they are placed with their minimum range in mind. The process of working out their weakness is pretty interesting too. That said, I think the point-blank-turret-block (aka they can't hit targets that are in melee range) could make them even-less just place it and forget about it.
They are still pretty expensive, but I guess that is balanced given they enable you to have less people defending given spot. Feels like a good trade-off and choice to make.
About doors change - I think it is a good change. You can literally kick a wooden door out. They shouldn't be that much of a blockage for attackers. This also means there is more incentive to use stone doors in crucial positions (more choice = more fun, at least for me), at cost of slower movement.
This also makes placing doors a more strategical - you can't just put them everywhere so that pawns move easily, because they can also be weak points.
Quote from: East on July 03, 2018, 05:39:53 AM
Even the steel doors before the door patch were easily destroyed in the Manhunter pack. The health of the door patch is really low.
This video is the manhunter pack before the patch when the door was 250. In this video you will think again about weakening the door. Look until the ostrich is all caught.
https://youtu.be/Isi0s_yed0k?t=4h11m59s
But if you stay inside after the first door is broken you're safe. What bugs me and what i can see in my runs, is when the colonist decides to go for a walk outside the restricted zone, which i guess is what happens at 4:17:57 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isi0s_yed0k&feature=youtu.be&t=4h17m57s) in your video and may have doomed more than one colonies
Armor has improved a lot. However, it is natural that there is little response to armor.
This is because no one is wearing armor.
I love rimworld. I usually see the rimworld twitch at the time of the rest.
Most streamers were not able to play until most armor was made.
The plate armor requires 250 steel. 250 steel! I will not think of making bad armor with it beacuse crafting staff stat is low.
People can not secure production staff, they are picking up weapons from enemy. And they wear a pair of clothes. There is no time and resources to make armor.
I make clothes, shave components, train crafting, and then crafting stat over 10 and build armor. It is natural. It's armor expensive and there's a lot to do. Most early production cuts stones.(However, cutting the stone does not increase the crafting stat. How could it be!)
While I think East strongly overstated the issue, it's a very legitimate point. I'm only now getting to the point where I regularly wear armor in-game, because of the high production costs; I'd rather spend resources on weapons than armor most of the time. I'd like to give a better answer, but I know that I'm almost never wearing armor (aside from the set that Crashlanded gets now) before the 1-1.5 year mark.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:44:57 AM
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 03, 2018, 06:41:09 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:36:53 AM
I'm taking a bug report for the manhunter door thing.
Do you have any thoughts on your new armor calculations? Are you keeping that abomination, thinking on reverting, redesigning....
I'd have to hear some reason why, most people here seem to like it from what I can tell. Make sure you're aware of the latest changes since the unstable build.
A 50/50 fixed chance to deflect/halve-and-convert-to-blunt damage when you get the chance to reduce damage is too clunky. The suspension of disbelief leap into t-shirts made out of leather deflecting bullets is just too big. The fixed 50% reduction is pretty strict and simply removes the whole idea of surviving or having a limb stay attached to a body by a sliver. You already have damage that always deal full damage with no random mechanic whatsoever, so there's no grazing shots or attacks already...
I'm not gonna suggest you do anything, it's your own game. Just going to throw out that mixing both elements would be the best way to solve that; this way you can have bulletproof vests that won't deflect bullets but will reduce damage, or metal armor that can entirely deflect shots or go through. It's pretty clear that you want to make customizable projectile force by using the stopping power mechanic, then I'm not sure why you haven't thought of simply mixing both elements and make some sort of "ArmorDeflection" and "ArmorReduciton" hybrid system.
Kenshi goes a step-beyond these systems, and has a "coverage" stat on top of armor reduction and limb system. Trousers with 40% coverage on your left leg and 80% on your right leg, for example, would have a 40% chance to apply the armor reduction on every attack on the left leg, and 80% on the right. Of course, I'd say this is just another level entirely of complication, but it's another way of doing armor.
Now, I've heard some rumors that damage amount affects how armor rating works; I have not found that in the code you wrote anywhere, so I'll ignore that.
About armor. In my play (of earliest 1.0 unstable) i crafted hi-end armor, not for everyone of my 10 colonists, but for the "tanks". Works fine.
Also, obviously i made sure to not use colonists lousy at crafting to create rather costly hi-end armor. I'm not sure why you would want to, or what you are thinking if you do. It's very easy to translate this to real life..
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 03, 2018, 07:09:18 AM
While I think East strongly overstated the issue, it's a very legitimate point. I'm only now getting to the point where I regularly wear armor in-game, because of the high production costs; I'd rather spend resources on weapons than armor most of the time. I'd like to give a better answer, but I know that I'm almost never wearing armor (aside from the set that Crashlanded gets now) before the 1-1.5 year mark.
Guess it's a playstyle thing. While I don't rush armor I generally tend to go for armor before weapons, because weapons barely get better. Greatbows or high dps weapons (machine pistol/heavy smg) will do fine for a really long time.
My plans always include making a suit of flak armor and a helmet for my pawns, but the material costs are high and getting weapons, proper rooms, a freezer, advanced research bench, a proper hospital, walls, medicine, food supply, etc take priority.
Why not use some wood plate armor?
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 07:31:52 AM
Why not use some wood plate armor?
Umm that is a thing?
Quote from: Polder on July 03, 2018, 07:32:14 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 07:31:52 AM
Why not use some wood plate armor?
Umm that is a thing?
It is, and it deflects bullets, exactly how wood works in RL.
I'm now almost a year in in a new game and here a few experiences:
(Naked survivor cass intense)
- It was way harder this game to get new colonists. Half of the time I had only one and most of the rest only two. That also has reasons in this run since my first second pawn was old and killed by an infection and the second second pawn got shot by my starter colonists. Overall this feels right for me and fits the challenge better than previous versions.
- I had huge problems with the raider AI. Mostly after my pawn walks in the door and the door closes, the raider just stand still for 10 seconds and do nothing. Then they walk away to a wall piece or something outside to destroy it and when my colonist walks out the door to shoot a few times, they turn around to attack him. He walks in the door, everything begins from anew. Sure I couldn't use this, but a bit strategy for fighting should be possible, without feeling to abuse a bad AI. At least they should attack the door or be a bit more decisive on their plan to destroy something.
- The system where you don't lose reputation when visitors die of something else is really abuseable too. I just opended the ancient danger when a trade caravan was visiting and they killed the mechs for me. Easy way to obtain an excellent charge lance this game. (Also a short note of something related I heard in the discord: Calling two caravans from factions hating each other will result in them fighting and you can just loot a lot without losing anything.)
- Watermills are actually more challenging now. I can still rely on only them. I also dislike it that the hurdle for other renewable power is behind a research with solar and batteries. I simply can't affort much research, so water power is the way to go. I would like to see something improving here for more variaty. This sure makes rivers stronger and I feel it's just like mountain bases where poeple always go into a mountain now go to a river, which limits variaty. I don't want water power to be weaker, more that the system should have decent alternatives and not water standing clear out.
- Quests have huge impact in the game if you manage to get one. I don't know if this is intended and I'm not sure if this is even bad though. This game and last game I could get the first item stash which gave me an excellent weapon and a megascreen tele plus something else. In this game it waas a short 2 day trip with 6 manhunter cassovaries as defence. Was possible but risky with my two colonists.
- That leads to caravaning which feels nice now with the new system. I couldn't experience much of it but it was always fun and now it's even better with the UI and improves travel times. I often played with caravans to get ore from a near mountain with the set-up camp mod instead of deep drilling, which feel more realistic and provide additional challenges. The long range scanner now has something like that, but I'm not far enough in the game to use it, but for me that system could be even more enlarged so there are normal mining places on the world map for steel and maybe other resources. You travel there, mine ore (or maybe even the same for other resources like getting wood from a near forest for a desert base), get raided so you need to defend you stuff and bringing it home feels like a good archivement that brings you forward in the game with having material for building a lot of new stuff.
- Apart from the previous mentioned AI door problem, I enjoyed most of the raids. They were a good challenge but not overwhelming strong and with the large variety I could think of different ways to defend agains each one. So sometimes I chose open field battle, sometimes I open doors and fight inside my base, sometimes trying to flank, ...
- I don't build killboxed and never will, so I can't say much more to that topic from a bit ago. Normal defences work well enough and are more fun for me.
I recorded my playthough with daily map renderings and made a gif in case you are interested. For some reason imgur didn't work, so here is a dropbox link that needs to be downloaded, sorry (~10mb):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wpx5ht990txfnw/base-1y.gif?dl=0
Razzoriel, t-shirts won't deflect bullets, there's an armor penetration system.
If you've got a specific idea for an armor change please offer it, but before that I think it'd be worth actually playing with the system as it exists to understand how it works and how it plays.
A general reminder: The theorycrafting moratorium continues and theory posts not based on actual play experience may be deleted.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 07:31:52 AM
Why not use some wood plate armor?
I have to research the plate armor separately and it feels more like wearing a little more clothes than wearing it.
In the early 20~40 defense, there is no big difference in wearing clothes and feeling.
And the flak vest is worn by the enemy. Take it away.
Okay, the reasons I never built wood armor is simply that I never researched the plate armor tech in any of my games. My thinking was that machining would let me craft armor anyway and would unlock other techs that I wanted. I did not notice the wood armor bit in the description, and plate armor refers exclusively to medieval metal armor in my mind.
Plate armors are a great addition, imo. Bridges the giant gap between technological levels we had - in most colonies I simply skipped most armor until I got power armors. Now they are harder to make, but there is also an alternative.
Wooden plate especially - easy to make, resources are usually available. But there is one problem, still - usually.
I still think that once you make some sort of armor, there should be a way of (at least partially) repairing it. Thematic reasons also apply here, too - in situations where resources are scarce, you'd make some sort of make-shift repairs to your armor (akin to armors seen in post-apo games like Fallout 1/2), so that it still offers you protection and doesn't fall apart.
Making whole new armor and throwing old one away seems kinda counter intuitive in such situation.
Thematic reasons aside, I think it would give people more incentive to make there armors, as they could be used for longer (but not repaired indefinitely, as it also doesn't make sense, both thematically and mechanically - some sort of repair limit, say 4-5 full durability values of new armor until it stops being repairable).
Personally the door thing is kinda good and bad in my view. As an extremist player I can develop doors that are meant to break to basically feed into a semi kill box (unintentionally). The ai can be manipulated to cross into my bunker rooms after breaking a door and funnel a little. They actually spread out more so each bunker has only a few guys that can safely be picked off. I never thought about this strategy until I saw the walls break so fast.
On the flip of the coin. New players are going to feel defenseless. Without researching guides on how to defend their base. The progression through the difficulty levels have changed a lot with the doors. There is a weird dynamic about how safe you want your base to be and how much time you want your pawns to navigate to the outside or even around your base.
A simple thing would make auto doors much cheaper and don't break down. Alternative would be allow me to do a close all function on my doors so I can hold some open without having to insanely micro manage to close them all afterword.
Personally I am stating I can easily get use to the new wall dynamic even though my previous strategy was to cheese doors. I strongly believe this change hurts your casual base heavily though.
Edit: My least favorite part of this change is the fact that I feel compelled to micro even more because the best strategy now is constructing and deconstructing walls instead of building doors. Since the price is cheaper and they are more sturdy.
I've read almost all the content on these forums since 1.0. My smoke break reading material lol. It is heavily saturated by veterans and extremist. I was in a thread on steam forums and many many casuals for 1 don't want to give up their mods and two don't like the idea of unstable. So the higher attraction of extremist means more theorycrafting to understand what a new player experiences. Their issues are a lot of the time caused by lack of knowledge but sometimes it is extremely viable things that are just a little unwelcoming for new players. Ex. Manhunters relationship to doors.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:09:46 AM
Mahunters will only attack doors if they see a pawn go through the door (unless there's a bug). Typically this happens when people are trying to have their colonists pop out to take potshots at the manhunters, which is intended to be non-viable as a strategy because it's micro-y and boring to execute and I don't want the game pushing players to engage boring activities.
Tactical combat in this game is inherently very fiddly and micro-y and based on trying to mess with the AI in order to gain an advantage through tactics instead of math (having more / better DPS, shooters, armor than the AI)
Doors are one of the relatively few interesting options we have in Rimworld tactical combat, which are interactive and allow for us to set up and execute strategies.
The alternative to high micro strategies is kill box like strategies, where you just set up in advance and win through math advantages, rather than micro.
Or just standing in field shooting at the enemies, which is a pure math check.
Despite the micro, tactical combat vs raiders is (usually but not always) fun, rather than boring, because raiders are interesting opponents with many different capabilities that are somewhat hard to predict.
Example from my 1.0 play: when raiders drop inside your base, using doors and small tactical movements to contain them, keep them split up, take out the guy with the moltoovs, assemble a defense and cleanse the base room by room is fun. Even though it's very high micro and any little mistake will cost you.
But manhunter packs are almost always boring, because they are predictable and always do the same thing and have very limited capabilities.
If the alternative to door cheese is just to have your melees hold a choke point while 6 people shoot over their shoulders, it's still boring. It's just a boring gear check / fingers crossed for luck moment, rather than a boring tactical combat.
Kiting them around is also boring.
Manhunter packs should be de-emphasized in favor of more tactical and interesting opponents (notably, over use of pure melee raids risks making them manhunter-like aka boring at times). Manhunter packs don't show the strengths of this game. Trivializing manhunter packs is better than making them into gear checks, although I guess people can just zone themselves inside their base and wait them out. But that's a lot of boring micro to set up the zone.
Doors should be an interesting and viable part of tactical combat, but should be tuned so strategies like door peak shooting don't become overpowered. Tactical combat is frankly one of the strengths of this game. Don't ruin it.
What's happen from 1.051 to 1.053? I have seen some problems in the gebug window
I have always thought about uniforms for outfits, as Doctors having the medic clothing with the typical Red Cross sign, but that would probably not happen.
We do however have a new indicator at the Colonist Bar for inspirations which is a light bulb. Based on that, I think more additional icons could be included based on their current action.
* If a pawn is Building ---> Display a hammer.
* If a pawn is Cooking ---> Display a frying pan.
* If a pawn is Hunting ---> Display a bull's eye.
* If a pawn is Growing ---> Display the grazing icon, same for animals at caravan window.
* If a pawn is Mining ---> Display a pickaxe.
* If a pawn is Researching ---> Display a chemistry glass.
* If a pawn is Hauling ---> Display a wheelbarrow.
* If a pawn is Cleaning ---> Display a broom.
* If a pawn is Doctoring ---> Display a stethoscope.
* If a pawn is Wardening ---> Display a dialogue bubble.
Also, about the pawn icons...can we have their Health Points bar like most strategy games?
Quote from: Perq on July 03, 2018, 07:59:34 AM
in most colonies I simply skipped most armor until I got power armors. Now they are harder to make, but there is also an alternative.
Yes, there is alternative. Devilstrand. Devilstrand set with optional flak vest (I want devilstrand flak vest!) can offer more or less the same level of protection as power armors, while being cheaper in research and production and offering much better insulation. In fact, I see no reason to switch to power armors even when I can afford them. Combat protection difference is non-existent (a pack of manhunting hares would tear you apart in a second anyway, so why to bother).
Quote from: Wild_Cake on July 03, 2018, 08:14:52 AM
What's happen from 1.051 to 1.053? I have seen some problems in the gebug window
Can you be specific? Is the build crashing?
Could possibly be referring to the defName change from Plant_Raspberry to Plant_Berry, which would naturally affect back-compat. I've noticed that likes to spew out errors.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 03, 2018, 08:22:25 AM
Quote from: Perq on July 03, 2018, 07:59:34 AM
in most colonies I simply skipped most armor until I got power armors. Now they are harder to make, but there is also an alternative.
Yes, there is alternative. Devilstrand. Devilstrand set with optional flak vest (I want devilstrand flak vest!) can offer more or less the same level of protection as power armors, while being cheaper in research and production and offering much better insulation. In fact, I see no reason to switch to power armors even when I can afford them. Combat protection difference is non-existent (a pack of manhunting hares would tear you apart in a second anyway, so why to bother).
Heavyfur is better than devilstrand, just keep hunting those megasloths.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 07:37:34 AM
Razzoriel, t-shirts won't deflect bullets, there's an armor penetration system.
Ok, so if you play the game of "i'm not posting how mechanics work", don't come to the community asking for feedback, because if you won't let us datacrunch the things you code, it's impossible to give accurate thoughts.
Quote from: Teutorix on July 03, 2018, 08:34:32 AM
Heavyfur is better than devilstrand, just keep hunting those megasloths.
I was under the impression devilstrand is superior. However, before it is grown, hunting megasloths is a good idea anyway since Heavy Fur is the best "leather" (aside from thrumbo fur) and megasloths don't fight back, so it's low risk. Plus you get tons of meat too.
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 03, 2018, 08:38:41 AM
...
You've clearly missed the 'The balancing process' thread, where Tynan did indeed post how the new armour system works. Exact post, which is still relevant to the current implementation: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41839.msg412205#msg412205
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 03, 2018, 08:44:43 AM
Quote from: Teutorix on July 03, 2018, 08:34:32 AM
Heavyfur is better than devilstrand, just keep hunting those megasloths.
I was under the impression devilstrand is superior. However, before it is grown, hunting megasloths is a good idea anyway since Heavy Fur is the best "leather" (aside from thrumbo fur) and megasloths don't fight back, so it's low risk. Plus you get tons of meat too.
Last i looked devilstrand only has 40% sharp armor, heavyfur is 46%
regarding manhunters and doors, my experience (mostly pre-1.0) is that the initial round always had animals giving up before a door was close to being broken- granted I use at least steel on exterior doors. I also use at least steel on prison doors, wood doors are for interiors use only, basically for privacy or temperature needs. Harder difficulties could have more persistent animals who will break down doors or walls, that would be interesting to say the least. I watch a couple of youtubers and mid game manhunters for better players are just a meat delivery, how to make them more challenging? Multiple points of break in? More vicious damage? That would be scary haha.
It seems some players want a guaranteed formula that always works, IMO that is boring once you have it figured out. Hopefully the game can retain a sense of some chaos and insecurity from beginning to end.
I like how predators don't hunt us back right away when you shoot. And that being near it increases the chance of 'revenge'.
It was a lot of micro before to hunt predators.
I even tested a melee pawn against a fox, while near it would fight back but when running away it wouldn't follow because the revenge trigger didn't fire.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 03, 2018, 08:45:43 AM
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 03, 2018, 08:38:41 AM
...
You've clearly missed the 'The balancing process' thread, where Tynan did indeed post how the new armour system works. Exact post, which is still relevant to the current implementation: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41839.msg412205#msg412205
He never actually confirmed this "candidate" was put into place, and the lack of an "armor penetration" stat in the code itself was proof enough for me to confirm it. If he did, then disregard my post, simple.
EDIT: If it turns out this is the current system, I have a question about custom damage types; will they all convert into blunt or still deal half damage in their form? This is important for those who mod in non-physical damage in weapons.
>Death on downed chance for non colony humans now relates to population intent
Hallelujah. I made it through the first year with only 6 colonists... as a tribal start :\
> Mahunters will only attack doors if they see a pawn go through the door (unless there's a bug).
Then theres a bug. I've had manhunting heifers randomly decide to attack my wall door. They gave up eventually but came unfortuntely close.
Also side note about animals and doors, can you make 'drafted' animals not go thorugh doors willy-nilly please?
> So I may end up e.g. nerfing the manhunters, for example.
I wouldn't mind that. Right now they are too overbearing to fight normally, and as a result kind of boring. "alright I'm spending the next 2 days in my base and afterwards getting a lot of food from exhausted animals"
> Why not use some wood plate armor?
You fixed the plate armor crafting issue? Last time I tried it had a tendency to just eat materials. Pretty sure my oblivious self lost like 1000 steel before I noticed...
> It seems some players want a guaranteed formula that always works, IMO that is boring once you have it figured out. Hopefully the game can retain a sense of some chaos and insecurity from beginning to end.
Different people want different things. The 'chaos and insecurity' thing is great for roguelikes, but AFAIC this game has far too much of a time investment to die 'just cuz'
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 03, 2018, 08:59:22 AM
He never actually confirmed this "candidate" was put into place, and the lack of an "armor penetration" stat in the code itself was proof enough for me to confirm it.
I did confirm it in patch notes referring to the implementation of the "three way armor system".
There is an armor penetration stat, it's on every projectile, it's called <armorPenetration> in the XML and in-game, it is output on every weapon stats window as "Armor Penetration".
The armor system is also described in the weapons' stats windows.
Quote from: Sirsir on July 03, 2018, 09:07:58 AM
Different people want different things. The 'chaos and insecurity' thing is great for roguelikes, but AFAIC this game has far too much of a time investment to die 'just cuz'
Serious question: What difficulty are you on and why not just lower it?
In regards to the armor system - For the most part I like it but there are certainly some outliers.
Wood armor (when wood is abundant) is actually really quite good for the early game, but it does require a lot of research for something that ultimately is merely on-par with a good quality duster made of a strong material.
If you've got trivial access to wood then in my experience you can grow devilstrand pretty easily. Additionally most biomes where wood is abundant have sufficient animals that provide very strong leathers.
Steel armor compares much better in terms of protection but.. it's still very expensive.
In my current tribal melee focused game (trying to give melee an acid-test, holy cow elephant tusks are good weapons, possibly too good) I've purchased 2 sets of steel armor but.. researching it will take longer than it takes to research Machining and steel is at a bit of a premium on a flat map in the early game before I can start up consistent trade requests and output sufficient trade goods.
Strictly speaking it's probably worth my time and effort to go and mine the available steel and put it towards steel armor but it feels bad investing time and resources in a dead-end temporary solution.
One of my pawns right now is running around with ~64% sharp resist on his whole body except for his neck/head because of elephant leather,40% of which is from a duster. Do I want to spend 210 steel for 80-90% total armor instead? Maybe! It's ~24% more blunt resist which is nice.
I guess my point is that it's not a very clear or satisfying upgrade at the moment, being mutually exclusive with both outer clothing for temperature management and flak vests is a hard position to be in.
---
While we're on the subject - Why is it that only Dusters cover your legs? It's a huge deal from an armor perspective - always has been now that I think about it - because jackets are only marginally better at cold insulation than dusters, often by an amount that is only relevant in the most extreme climates where Parkas would likely be more appropriate.
Even when I'm playing in cold climates I always look at a jacket and think "That's one bad Duster".
And on the subject of armor coverage - Hands and feet: Why do you spurn them so? :P
To be perfectly frank if plate armor covered hands and feet I'd probably invest in it in a heartbeat, and possibly go on using it well past the point where flak was more effective. Mostly because I'm the kind of person who really hates seeing fingers and toes blown, bitten, or shot off.
Edit: Tacking this on the end here - Great Bows are, -and probably always have been- a bit too powerful in my experience. To the point where I actually try to avoid them unless I'm really min-maxing it up in that particular playthrough. Their overall profile is extremely similar to bolt action rifles which is a pretty great place to be. They're actually a bit better than bolt action rifles at shortish range which is kind of bonkers.
There's definitely room in the game for a good tribal weapon, and there's definitely space between the Recurve and the Great bows for adjustment. I just don't think they really ought to be so good that they overshadow a variety of firearms and even their own firearm equivalent up until assault rifles.
So, a few years in, 6th of Jugust, 5504.
First, quick question, I go to options, click Choose storyteller, does that show what I'm on or the default selection for storyteller?
I could have sworn I was on hard, but that shows Cassandra with Medium selected. Maybe show the current storyteller somewhere if it isn't showing the currently selected storyteller?
[Edit: I guess I can answer my own question, changed it to Hard, looked at it again, it's still on Hard. Guess that reset at some point. I know I started higher.]
Medium would explain why the raids don't seem to be overwhelming, typically less in number than my colonists with colony wealth currently at 126128 on the map, items 70997, buildings 53393.
I've given up on choke points and kill boxes, which used to be my primary strategy for any conflict. As soon as a built a killbox like area, all subsequent raids were sappers and they'd never come anywhere close to anything I'd expect. So, instead of heading to the kill box, and going to the same positions I've always used and kill whatever was coming, I man the wall on the side I expect.
So, now I have a rather porous wall with granite and sandbags with turret emplacements to soften things up, see attached image.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/trpyvnckgwkjxgq/Screenshot%202018-07-03%2009.09.47.png?dl=0
Each wall segment used to be two wide when I'd done this before, but I use melee all the time now, so that's changed to three wide so a melee can stand behind cover until things close and step out to fight when things hit the wall.
I'm still doing terrible at trade. In my earlier post, I'd mentioned that I'd just let faction standing slide. It seemed impossible to keep it high with the -10 penalty, which still feels just arbitrary, like I'm not playing the game the way it's intended, so here, have a penalty! Clearly all I needed to do was give away resources, but I've never gifted things for standing in hundreds of hours played, I prefer that trade is trade I guess.
I missed the change in facing for the comms console, it switched at some point and made the chair position be inside a wall. I took me over a year to notice I'd had no passing ships before I was forced to deconstruct and reconstruct that little change.
I haven't had a single trade caravan in 3 years. After relations fell, it left only one faction at +3, the other were all -50 or more. But I would have expected at least a few caravans? With how harsh relations are, it makes it important to keep relations high, but it has clearly become a chore that I have to do ...
This led to a resource crunch, I ran out of easy to find components on the map, steel was scarce, I started strip mining tunnels on all the remaining hills.
With my last couple components and breakdowns ready to claim them, I forced a quick build of a pod launcher and single pod.
I shot a very large gift towards my closest faction, it was -50 because I was leaving them alone and just minding my business so they hate me. The gift bumped it back to +70 ... (5) off on my calculations, no ally.
The only remaining friendly faction cities were 6 or 7 days away and without rations researched, seemed out of reach. This seemed a last ditch effort to do something about it, get a closer friend or ally that would send me caravans or that I could send a caravan to and trade.
With a friendly faction nearby again, I sent a trade caravan and bought all of their components and hit a stash on the way back to pick up a masterwork chain shotgun and resolved my faction / trade / resource crunch.
I've read some hate on the forums for shotguns, but whoa, masterwork chain shotgun in the middle of the line to kill any melee that closes? He's a death machine.
Part of my hurdle in this playthrough, mainly due to the trade issue I'd wager, was a lack of gold. I'd found no gold on the map and no one had gold to trade in any caravan, not that I had many caravans. I was getting desperate, and I'd researched everything under the microelectronics gate on the research tab. Finally, a gift from above, 27 gold from a cargo pod and I was finally able to build a multi-analyzer and continue progression. I'm working towards deep drilling now, which will likely solve my resource crunch for a while.
After fixing my communications console, I've had passing ships again, though only combat and pirate. RNG won't send me a bulk trading ship (and still no caravans) so I'm overflowing with things I'd like to trade but can't.
I think I'm going to have to be careful with steel until I can deep drill, won't be long now, my researcher has gotten pretty good at his task.
I still avoid nearly everything on the map, with the changes to show quantity and not just type of enemy I might be able to plan well enough to do some of them. It still feels rather risky, I don't get many pawns I want and have been hovering in the teens for colonists. I feel like I'd need to send around 3-5, but with the incredible number of negative attributes, I only have 3 colonists that aren't slow or missing limbs or have scars that slow them or a missing toe that slow them. I cherry pick the best of the best to keep travel time low and leave the crap behind, but with the killbox not working, they have to fight now, and fight on the wall, not tucked safely behind 10 or 15 turrets. It's quite a trade off, so I still typically pass on leaving.
Speaking of negative attributes, birthdays suck and only suck. Perhaps you could stick a few positive outcomes, or maybe they've just been hidden by RNG. Age, wisdom, all that, perhaps a skill increases by 1 on it's own. Turning 50 has become perilous, so many that are frail or have bad backs, ok 3 out of 4 now, but still ... I'm now even more picky about which downed I rescue, can't be too old, you might have a bad birthday that compounds that scar you have and then you walk at 50%.
As always, I enjoy the game and continue to trudge towards the end game (which I've never actually tried ...) :)
Quote from: Sirsir on July 03, 2018, 09:07:58 AM
You fixed the plate armor crafting issue? Last time I tried it had a tendency to just eat materials. Pretty sure my oblivious self lost like 1000 steel before I noticed...
It was fixed, I made plate armors and they had the unfinished version and it wouldn't disappear.
Quote from: Sirsir on July 03, 2018, 09:07:58 AM
Different people want different things. The 'chaos and insecurity' thing is great for roguelikes, but AFAIC this game has far too much of a time investment to die 'just cuz'
That's why there are several difficult options to choose. I'm sorry to be saying this directly to your reply but I believe the same goes for other users.
A lot of people play on different difficulties, if the game is too hard, try lowering the difficulty, if it is too easy increase it.
There is no need to ask to make something more dangerous unless you are playing extreme or telling to nerf something unless you are playing on the easiest difficulty.
In the end there are mods that can also help.
What Tynan is doing is not fixing the game only for those who bought the game, he is fixing the game for those who will still buy the game, discover it and play it in the future. That's what 1.0 should be all about, a version that anyone can feel safe buying it. As in it will be fun regardless if I prefer 'chaos and insecurity', 'sandbox base building' or somewhere in between.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 09:15:58 AM
Quote from: Sirsir on July 03, 2018, 09:07:58 AM
Different people want different things. The 'chaos and insecurity' thing is great for roguelikes, but AFAIC this game has far too much of a time investment to die 'just cuz'
Serious question: What difficulty are you on and why not just lower it?
I'm fine on my difficulty setting (rough) but I was responding to someone else that was saying they wish this game was even LESS secure than it is now. I think the game is rather well balanced as is (beside the centipedes, but I think those are supposed to feel that way)
Quote from: tiagocc0 on July 03, 2018, 09:20:43 AM
Quote from: Sirsir on July 03, 2018, 09:07:58 AM
You fixed the plate armor crafting issue? Last time I tried it had a tendency to just eat materials. Pretty sure my oblivious self lost like 1000 steel before I noticed...
It was fixed, I made plate armors and they had the unfinished version and it wouldn't disappear.
Quote from: Sirsir on July 03, 2018, 09:07:58 AM
Different people want different things. The 'chaos and insecurity' thing is great for roguelikes, but AFAIC this game has far too much of a time investment to die 'just cuz'
That's why there are several difficult options to choose. I'm sorry to be saying this directly to your reply but I believe the same goes for other users.
A lot of people play on different difficulties, if the game is too hard, try lowering the difficulty, if it is too easy increase it.
There is no need to ask to make something more dangerous unless you are playing extreme or telling to nerf something unless you are playing on the easiest difficulty.
In the end there are mods that can also help.
What Tynan is doing is not fixed the game only for those who bought the game, he is fixing the game for those who will still buy the game, discover it and play it in the future. That's what 1.0 should be all about, a version that anyone can feel safe buying it. As in it will be fun regardless if I prefer 'chaos and insecurity', 'sandbox base building' or somewhere in between.
Thats great! Plate armor looks epic! But why would you make Wood Plate Armor when you can just use Steel? (aside from flat maps where wood is everywhere and steel nodes are nonexistant)
And I completely agree about difficulty. In the end thats the beauty of such a heavily moddable game. I can get a mod that restores doors to their original health total, and crow_t can get teleporting mechs or something.
On doors and walls. I use wood to start but switch to stone when things get going. If anything gets taken out, I just replace it with a stronger material. So if they dig into my base, I fill it with plasteel. If they take out a door or turret I make it out of Uranium. It makes sense that wood would be so week, though Id argue that small animals shouldnt be able to take them out. My cats assault my bathroom door relentlessly to no avail any time I go in there and the doors are still standing.
Is there a rolling changelog for the 1.0 experimental updates? (wondering whats updated since last night)
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 09:15:58 AM
Serious question: What difficulty are you on and why not just lower it?
Difficulty setting in this game serves multiple purposes
It is a way to increase "non-random" difficulty; increase the number of raids (which involve using tactics and gameplay to win)
but it is also a way to increase "random" difficulty; increase the number of bad events like plagues (which involve using dice rolls and ultra boring micro to win)
The late game can be very, very boring and stagnant if you're not getting raided and in prior builds even high difficulties had a shortage of late game raids. But tolerance for random bad events will vary from player to player.
So I do think people feel a need to play on high difficulty, but don't necessarily want to die randomly due to factors they have no control over.
IE: raids that you plan for in advance, build your base to counter, equip your guys to counter and micro like crazy during (gameplay) vs some disease where you live or die based on your rolls for tend quality (luck)
Caravan notes:
There needs to be a way of setting priorities who is getting healed first, or simply fixed "smart" priorities.
People who are literally dying (bleeding) or slowly dying (infections) needs to have highest priority here over, say, pack animals and whatnot. This process should also be a little faster, imo (especially when there are 4 doctors in the caravan for total of 7 people in it).
Why? I literally had to stop next to a other colony to "settle" to get my pawn healed, because he has 3 hours to live. This obviously decreased faction status, which doesn't make much sense, since I simply tried to mend my dying pawn (which also left empty ruins of my "colony" there).
Tynan, I know this is a suggestion and off topic but since you have been so active I'm going to ask here.
How about putting some colorblind options in the game? I know it would be low priority but it would be a great feature for 1.0 .
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1424338139
Here you can see that people are interested in such a mod, it goes without saying that those that are colorblind needs it and even non colorblind people subscribed because it also makes it easier to spot different minerals just by glance.
The problem is that there are several types of colorblind and from the comments we can see that the scheme of color used didn't work for everyone, it would be great if people could change the color of some things in the options so those who are colorblind can choose whatever works best for them.
Another build because why not.
--
Fix: Invalid map index errors caused by inspector tabs after loading a game and keeping the tab open.
Game of Ur no longer requires chairs to use. But, chairs are still preferred.
Manhunter pack incident letter clarifications.
Manhunter pack incident points factor adjusted.
Reduce sappers and sieges somewhat at high points levels.
Made mining yields (drill and standard) difficulty-dependent. Similar to crop yields.
Rate of enemy non-death down is now difficulty-dependent (this balances the different numbers of enemies at different difficulties).
Caravan pawns no longer get extra joy from eating food. Caravan pawns now periodically get a little bit of Social/Meditative joy.
Turret maintenance cost is now difficuly-dependent (though the top 3 difficulties are the same)
Various needs now freeze while a pawn is in a mental state (recreation etc).
Increase wood stuff HP factor and door base health a bit.
Reduce some armor costs a bit.
Debuff greatbow a bit.
Remove limit on points of friendly raids.
Changed site threat points curve (less enemies).
Changed translation report syntax suggestions format a bit.
Fix: DefInjections duplicates are not detected in some cases. TranslationReport no longer says that a field is not translated if you use indexes instead of named handles.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:09:46 AM
Quote from: East on July 03, 2018, 05:39:53 AM
Manhunter packs often attack specific doors during initial entry.
Mahunters will only attack doors if they see a pawn go through the door (unless there's a bug). Typically this happens when people are trying to have their colonists pop out to take potshots at the manhunters, which is intended to be non-viable as a strategy because it's micro-y and boring to execute and I don't want the game pushing players to engage boring activities. Making it less viable is a major motivator for the door HP change. Overall doors aren't supposed to be fortifications, they're more about prisoners, room edges, and temperature control than absorbing damage and controlling enemy movement.
That said I'm gonna look at the HP gap between steel and wood, 56hp wood and 140hp steel seems a bit stark.
This has possibly been bugged, since B18. I've had maddened animals begin, while everyone was in base. These animals will not try to tear the door down but, they do oddly take pot-shots. I had one situation (B18) where a pack of them were intermittently attacking the door, so much, that they eventually tore it down even with repairs (there were a couple dozen of them right outside my door when that happened.) I'll try to drum up an actual scenario, or capture some video of it when it next happens.
A note: I set zones, when this happens, and the colonists aren't even capable of leaving this (supposedly safe) space. It's happened enough that I've started accounting for it. Thanks.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:44:57 AM
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 03, 2018, 06:41:09 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:36:53 AM
I'm taking a bug report for the manhunter door thing.
Do you have any thoughts on your new armor calculations? Are you keeping that abomination, thinking on reverting, redesigning....
I'd have to hear some reason why, most people here seem to like it from what I can tell. Make sure you're aware of the latest changes since the unstable build.
Yep. I LOVE the new armor system. It's much more realistic and ... interesting! I've had way more fun watching the little "plinks" and bullets fly off than I ever did thinking, "Oh, nice. They took less damage."
More caravan stuff:
After caravan comes back to town, pawns could get back to beds they were assigned to before they left. It is kinda bothersome when it comes to couples, but also messes up all setups of greedy pawns, and so on.
Quote from: Perq on July 03, 2018, 10:27:18 AM
More caravan stuff:
After caravan comes back to town, pawns could get back to beds they were assigned to before they left. It is kinda bothersome when it comes to couples, but also messes up all setups of greedy pawns, and so on.
Good one. I would say a button that forces the pawn to a bed even if outside the map, that way we can choose which beds are okay to be used by other pawns and which are not.
This is probably this way because if you get new pawns while other are in a caravan, they wouldn't be left without a bed.
Quote from: Sangerwolf on July 03, 2018, 09:35:52 AM
Is there a rolling changelog for the 1.0 experimental updates? (wondering whats updated since last night)
I've kept one going on Steam forums: https://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/1729827777335846049/
(copy/pastes of Tynan's update change posts with links to the actual posts here in this thread.)
https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/RimWorld
https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/RimWorld/videos/all?sort=time
Sometimes I feel a gap between patch content and actual game play.
Taynan seems to worry about the prejudices of reporters.
So how about this?
twitch rimworld. There are many English 1.0 broadcasts.
Hiding the identity of the developer and asking the streamer, "Why do not you wear armor," "Why not the world map quest", "What do you think about this patch?" I think you can get feedback without prejudice.
You can also create a separate twitch ID that displays the rimworld developer and get feedback from streamers.
A streamer will give you agressive feedback if you find it is a developer. Of course, complaining too.
You can also watch the last broadcast through the streamer movie tab on the twitch, so you can see how they are playing.
Looking at the past videos, you will be able to see where they have reached and what has been destroyed.
And major combat tactics and corresponding tactics too.
It does not take long. If you invest only 15 minutes, you can check all the contents on several broadcasts.
If Taynan uses the contents of the broadcast and here posts, he can get more diverse feedback.
I hope this isn't considered overly hostile but has to be said.
Tynan, if you were honest with yourself, you might infract yourself with theorycrafting, since you appear to have a profound disconnect with how the game is played on higher difficulties and presume the effectiveness of a fair playstyle that simply does not exist there.
You dismiss the concerns of strong players like East by claiming their playstyle is cheesy or abusive. And yet, I look at him and I see a player with a shocking tolerance of trading shots with the enemy. The doorway / triple sandbag is emblematic of this (letting the enemy even take shots is remarkable risk tolerance). He is one of the more fair players out there on this difficulty!
You deride micro-y fights yet that is the few ways you can differentiate mediocre from good players. Its the difference between beating a 3v5 2nd raid with some damage, to no damage with risky plays, to no damage with safe plays, to no damage with safe plays and no pathing manipulation. There is less of this vs manhunter, but it is there.
What is your envisioned fair fight on extreme fighting outnumbered? Trading shots behind low cover like typical player does? When things like doomsday / trip / AoE CC mechanisms are in play? The existence of certain threats is such that the only correct play is never to allow them to interact.
What experience, or trusted playtest experience do you have to assess that this intended fair playstyle is indeed effective?
I will make a quick example about risk assessment.
Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch, non trivial infection chance. Do you imagine meleeing this fearsome beaverial scourge to be an acceptable option? Show me a player who consistently takes this risks like this on extreme and I will show you a player that lives or dies based on his die rolls alone. I could flip coins at this point for a similar experience.
I was discussing a finding on an odd game mechanics with a player that far exceeds my ability last night. I was urged not to share it, since he was insistent the 'fix' would just lead to the degradation of gameplay. I might have thought this was cynical at the time. Maybe he's right.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 10:49:16 AM
I will make a quick example about risk assessment.
Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch, non trivial infection chance. Do you imagine meleeing this fearsome beaverial scourge to be an acceptable option? Show me a player who consistently takes this risks like this on extreme and I will show you a player that lives or dies based on his die rolls alone. I could flip coins at this point for a similar experience.
You wouldn't send a melee guy alone, the melee should be there to help the shooter in case the shooter fails, so the beaver doesn't get to the shooter, which should be a more valuable pawn then the melee guy.
A pawn with high melee skill is preferable but any guy in armor with a melee weapon should be able to hold for your shooters.
I know you are talking about extreme here but like I read the other day, one person talking about tips for extreme that would go as far as leaving everything in the open to degrade it as to diminish his wealth value, since low hp on most items still behave the same way. It's not that he is wrong, just something that I wouldn't do.
That are things that are cheese and that is that, they are just trying solutions to try see if they can mitigate that.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 10:49:16 AM
Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch,
Eye damage no longer causes permanent damage.
Additionally the chance to hit an eye is 0.4% per eye.
The More You Know
As to the rest of your post.. Modifications to game systems based on the most extreme scenarios on either end of the bell curve are inherently more likely to have unintended consequences.
---
As to what you see as dice rolling - which is to say, situations where you feel you have insufficient agency - that's mostly down to your perception.
You're not forced to melee that beaver, nor fight it unarmed, nor even fight it at all.
You have agency over almost every aspect of that encounter, your melee accuracy, dodge chance, dps, the medicine you use, the skill of the physician. All things you have control over.
You can alter the average outcome of that encounter. And ultimately that's the most important thing to remember.
The whole idea is not to be able to alter a situation until you always have a 100% chance of perfect success, the idea is to be able to
on average yield a positive result across multiple encounters.
Since you're keen on extreme examples: SC2 could be argued as a game with no inherent random factors. Damage calculations have no random elements, nor with the possible exception of some map's starting locations do any other game features.
But in reality that breaks down because humans intrinsically add chaos to an otherwise entropic state.
How an individual plays and reacts to information provided -while not random in a mechanical sense- constantly introduces unknown variables.
Some games will be lost entirely down to build order. Others to a split second decision to choose one of two paths, ect.
Most people would describe that as bad luck. You didn't roll any real world dice but you were forced to pick between two mutually exclusive options where the results were not known.
What more can I say? Study statistics and start treating every decision and every object as though it's Schrodinger's object.
I can't say for certain that the result will be you're happier while playing Rimworld but it might allow for a broader assessment of personal agency.. which could be good or bad depending on how Nihilistic you are :P
Quote from: Perq on July 03, 2018, 10:27:18 AM
More caravan stuff:
After caravan comes back to town, pawns could get back to beds they were assigned to before they left. It is kinda bothersome when it comes to couples, but also messes up all setups of greedy pawns, and so on.
This annoyed the hell out of me in B18. Tynan please take note, this is a very important QoL change for caravans. It's so annoying it makes me use caravans noticeably less, because I just can't be bothered to do the same clicks every time a caravan comes back, especially if I have many couples.
Quote from: Tynan on July 02, 2018, 05:02:07 AM
EDIT: Also FYI, y'all have well outpaced our ability to actually implement the notes that I've been taking. Currently we've got about 12 pages of backlogged tasks to work on, so if something's not done yet it doesn't mean we're not planning it. If you want to take a break testing that wouldn't be a terrible idea, since testing data given now will be a bit distorted since it's played in a context of a bunch of problems we've already got plans to fix.
Just wondering if you're still backlogged and if so, when you think we should resume testing? I have a bunch of free time later this week and was hoping to dig into a long game to be able to contribute some feedback.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 03, 2018, 08:31:06 AM
Could possibly be referring to the defName change from Plant_Raspberry to Plant_Berry, which would naturally affect back-compat. I've noticed that likes to spew out errors.
Yes, I suffered the sudden disappearance of all berries on my map.
Also, all my structures and furniture was damaged to about 60% of hitpoints.
Save file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rzk1dmivz8rwu2h/1.0_Notani%20-%201051.rws?dl=0
Is there a way to open the debug console to copy-paste the information? It flashes too fast for me to read during loading.
Quote from: taviandir on July 03, 2018, 11:23:44 AM
Is there a way to open the debug console to copy-paste the information? It flashes too fast for me to read during loading.
In the option menu you can set it to developer mode, a few buttons will appear at the top of the screen, one of them is the log, I think the first one.
EDIT: You can also try editing your save file in case of Plant_Raspberry to Plant_Berry. You look for one text and replace with the new one, then load your game. I did it for the tunneler change which without modifying the save file would make the pawns love the trait and leave the slot open.
Quote from: taviandir on July 03, 2018, 11:23:44 AM
Also, all my structures and furniture was damaged to about 60% of hitpoints.
Without having looked at your save file -
That's probably because the max health of objects made of wood was adjusted in the most recent update. Increased specifically.
Everything will have retained its existing health value but the max went up so.. everything is now damaged :)
Quote from: tiagocc0 on July 03, 2018, 11:09:54 AM
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 10:49:16 AM
I will make a quick example about risk assessment.
Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch, non trivial infection chance. Do you imagine meleeing this fearsome beaverial scourge to be an acceptable option? Show me a player who consistently takes this risks like this on extreme and I will show you a player that lives or dies based on his die rolls alone. I could flip coins at this point for a similar experience.
You wouldn't send a melee guy alone, the melee should be there to help the shooter in case the shooter fails, so the beaver doesn't get to the shooter, which should be a more valuable pawn then the melee guy.
A pawn with high melee skill is preferable but any guy in armor with a melee weapon should be able to hold for your shooters.
I know you are talking about extreme here but like I read the other day, one person talking about tips for extreme that would go as far as leaving everything in the open to degrade it as to diminish his wealth value, since low hp on most items still behave the same way. It's not that he is wrong, just something that I wouldn't do.
That are things that are cheese and that is that, they are just trying solutions to try see if they can mitigate that.
the point of my risk assessment there is how an extreme players deems melee to be a crappy deal, whereas in Tynans fantasy land he envisions mixed arms. This may work in clowny scenarios where you don't get punished to the max for taking bad risks, but has no bearing in serious game discussion.
Once again, profound disconnect.
But I didn't know eye scratch was not permanent there, so that's cool
I used 2% because an animal does multiple types of melee attacks during a hit, at least I've had situations where I've gotten double eye scratched in single hit (I laughed a bit, and accepted my just punishment for letting anything ever hit me).
Really liking the new armor system.
In previous builds, armored pawns would accumulate tons of weak-damaging hits, get minor bleeding, in a predictable and gradual fashion.
I felt that there was no risk with committing them; could just soak up bullets and slices, then withdraw them when they were too hurt.
The new way feels like there's more jeopardy, and even a little more logical (RL armor never covers completely, or evenly, and weapon strike obliquity randomizes the effect of hits). Blunt conversion is nice too. A pawn with power armor won't likely be cut by a sword, but can still get knocked out.
The sound and gfx are also really clear if the hit was stopped by armor, or bypassed/penetrated it. It was a fun surprise to see a pawn survive a lance hit to the heart with crush damage within an inch of his life, because he was wearing two layers of flak and a devilstrand shirt.
I mean, anyone could argue how random the system should be, but it was way too predictable before.
Is there a description of the deflect chance somewhere? https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41839.45
Honestly, bbqftw, I would just post your findings and let Tynan decide what needs to be done.
Personally, I try not to underestimate animals, whether they're manhunting or not. But when I expect the animal to put up a fight, I have a few colonists with ranged weapons standing behind at least two colonists with melee weapons, depending on the size of the animal. A cautious response may not win any awards for bravery, but it beats what I've seen some players do.
I wouldn't call that micromanagement. Far from it. If you play a city simulator and there are disasters that can happen, you prepare for them, don't you? And you take the appropriate action, don't you? RimWorld allows you to draft colonists to deal with problems which go beyond what the AI can handle, so I consider that to be only a logical response.
Quote from: tiagocc0 on July 03, 2018, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 11:32:03 AMmelee to be a crappy deal
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 11:32:03 AMTynans fantasy land
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 11:32:03 AMno bearing in serious game discussion.
You are not helping your case here.
of the 4 players I know that grind NB/extreme starts, none seriously employ melee in any decisive scenario. This is even past the point you have access to blue meds, so we're talking even past the point infection is a probable death sentence.
Have you considered why this is? One possibility is that they are all unreasonable and that your game understanding surpasses theirs. Do you view this a particularly high % scenario?
Typically when someone better than me says I am playing inefficiently, I listen. When someone recommends odd strategies, I give it a dev test try.
I think verdict from tests and experiences is pretty clear.
Quote from: Perq on July 03, 2018, 09:43:23 AM
People who are literally dying (bleeding) or slowly dying (infections) needs to have highest priority here over, say, pack animals and whatnot. This process should also be a little faster, imo (especially when there are 4 doctors in the caravan for total of 7 people in it).
Good point, this system needed some tweaks. We have made the following changes:
- Caravan tending interval now depends on how many doctors there are
- Overall tending while caravaning is now a bit faster
- Pawns needing immediate treatment are now treated first
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 11:55:02 AMof the 4 players I know that grind NB/extreme starts, none seriously employ melee in any decisive scenario. This is even past the point you have access to blue meds, so we're talking even past the point infection is a probable death sentence.
Have you considered why this is? One possibility is that they are all unreasonable and that your game understanding surpasses theirs. Do you view this a particularly high % scenario.
Typically when someone better than me says I am playing inefficiently, I listen. When someone recommends odd strategies, I give it a dev test try.
I think verdict from tests and experiences is pretty clear.
Right, why not talk like this instead of saying things like that in the other post?
Why be aggressive like that and talk about 'serious game discussion'?
Why talk like that to Tynan in his forum full of people that admire him and loves the game?
I don't care what you found out, the way you are saying it is wrong, that is not how we should approach people here in the forum, much less the owner of the company.
You are better than me, of course you are. Will I ever be as good as you, probably never.
Does that mean that you can talk like you were doing? No.
Did some testing of my own and kill boxes are still effective, don't know what everyone is saying. Sappers are still an issue, but feel no different from previous versions. It`s still a massacre when a raid enters a killbox, and with a thick enough perimeter you can respond to any sappers in time to at least hold them off before you can fully respond. Only thing that has really changed noticeably is upkeep cost for turrets, and in my opinion they weren't what made killboxes good and you can do fine with just one colonist and MAYBE a turret to distract anyone who may get there before you.
In my personal opinion, we can't really "fix" killboxes without spamming sappers and sieges every raid, which will lower variety. We just need to accept the fact it will always be a thing and you can't really balance it without making the game less fun for others who don't enjoy that strategy. You're doing the right thing with more versatile raids dropping in and stuff.
I'm all for lowering the sapper raid frequency. Felt ridiculous that literally every raid was a sapper raid. And the occasional siege which is trivial to deal with.
When every raid is of the same type it become predictable. Predictable is boring.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 09:15:58 AM
Quote from: Sirsir on July 03, 2018, 09:07:58 AM
Different people want different things. The 'chaos and insecurity' thing is great for roguelikes, but AFAIC this game has far too much of a time investment to die 'just cuz'
Serious question: What difficulty are you on and why not just lower it?
Difficulty does not change mechanics. The game would throw all the same crap on you, just less of it. Manhunting rabbits would still be able to kick down your cardboard doors and chew through foil armor. Drop pods falling from the clear sky would still make your defenses useless. Any scratch still puts your pawn in a deadly risk. Your pawns still can't hit a barn wall from within the barn. Bows still can outrange most firearms.
You want to make a story generator, but currently, all stories are the same. You play unless game decides to throw on you something that you have no way to deal with, and you know that you are deliberately deprived of said way to make you suffer. Those are not good stories.
You are trying to force players into melee, but melee will never be a viable strategy in Rimworld. If you use melee, you've already lost your fight. It's only matter of RNG when your pawn will be crippled or dead.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 10:49:16 AM
You deride micro-y fights yet that is the few ways you can differentiate mediocre from good players. Its the difference between beating a 3v5 2nd raid with some damage, to no damage with risky plays, to no damage with safe plays, to no damage with safe plays and no pathing manipulation. There is less of this vs manhunter, but it is there.
What is your envisioned fair fight on extreme fighting outnumbered? Trading shots behind low cover like typical player does? When things like doomsday / trip / AoE CC mechanisms are in play? The existence of certain threats is such that the only correct play is never to allow them to interact.
What experience, or trusted playtest experience do you have to assess that this intended fair playstyle is indeed effective?
I will make a quick example about risk assessment.
Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch, non trivial infection chance. Do you imagine meleeing this fearsome beaverial scourge to be an acceptable option? Show me a player who consistently takes this risks like this on extreme and I will show you a player that lives or dies based on his die rolls alone. I could flip coins at this point for a similar experience.
I think the intention is that if there's a way to reliably take 0 damage from a threat, that should be changed, and if it becomes too hard as a result, the threat should be reduced so you can handle that threat. Otherwise there's not really much tension.
That said, it's crazy hard to balance multiple playstyles. For instance, my working playthrough on extreme is utilizing everything the game has to offer: uses turrets, has dudes with shield belts and melee, charged rifles, non-violents repairing turrets in battle, sandbags instead of the usual walls so I can build turrets all around and have some places where the cannons don't kill my own guys.
And it's a glorius bloodbath that is an evergrowing trainwreck that keeps growing in power. Half my guys are bionic in some way due to limbs flying off, 12 people have died, two have brain scars one of which is on luciferium and the other will be when I can get a decent supply, over 15 cannons have been wrecked from various causes. But I've also got even more cannons, mortars, 20+ colonists since I'm accepting everyone. Just had a 54 wave of tribals that ran amok through the whole base and it was a lot of fun, some cannons were wrecked, some mortars damaged a dozen tribals.
I think this is the way extreme should be personally. Eventually one of the threats might grow large enough to topple everything, or maybe I'll blast off the planet.
But then there's also people who don't want to play with turrets, or don't want to play on economic heavy maps that can support massing them, or don't want to use deadfalls in the beginning, or play on naked brutality. Like some people find turrets and cannons boring even outside of a killbox or just don't want the incessent dirlling for thousands of steel.
This is kind of why I don't really think extreme is needed anymore, as removing it gives a lot of leeway for fun playstyles and if you want more difficulty you can play on harder biomes. I notice not many players are playing on extreme desert or ice sheet this update or sea ice, and I think it's because many of the expereinced players still want to win on extreme, and it's almost impossible now on those biomes.
A response to the 4 players you know that do NB/extreme. I've been grinding out playthroughs on it and tribal every other patch he has made. I use melee in a lot of cases. Melee is 100% the best method vs centipedes. Melee is extremely good vs man hunter packs (strategy is a two thick wall with 2 doors with melee person standing on second door to force animals to attack 1 at a time). Also use melee if my target got cover.
As for infections I never actually wait till the end of the fight to heal my damaged pawns. They leave mid fight to get patched up sometimes. I rarely let any colonist ever go down and if they do they are immediately rescued and patched up.
The only real issue is the difficulty level of this unstable 1.0 has dramatically shifted every couple of days. So to make 100% claims on Tyron theory crafting is kinda bs. Since he is probably testing a version we haven't seen just yet.
I will say though I actually never thought of door manipulation as cheesy or exploitation or boring. Option two was kill box and that is boring. Option 3 was open field battle but in fights with 1 : 2.5 leads your guys to get trapped in a room and door jumping anyway unless you designed a complex flanking base.
In the end the nerf to doors has created more boring microing on my end as I am attempting to self correct this issue. I have to manually remember to open/close normally useless doors. Then afterword I have to revert to kill box strategy after doors have broken which is less fun but really effective for small trickles.
I say the statement "have to" because I haven't figured out how to effectively do it differently. But nerfing door strategy hasn't in my eyes opened any cool new fun ways of combat. Even with corner popping/flanking. I need a safety spot to actually rescue and heal downed people so they don't get infections. With a lot more micro I am figuring this out but this isn't a step in a good direction and a huge hurt to lower difficulties too.
some things i noticed:
-caravans now stop way outside my base
-that makes buying food of them nearly impossible, because it drops to the ground and all animals imediatly swarm to it to eat it
-pls reenable auto-strip when burning bodies
(-still think, every missions on another tile are not worth the risk)
Getting a weird bug now where all my plants are dying because of poison.
Quote from: Sangerwolf on July 03, 2018, 01:04:01 PM
Getting a weird bug now where all my plants are dying because of poison.
Sounds like poison ship. That wouldn't be a bug, unless it's a cloaked poison ship, which would just be Tynan being evil. ;)
Quote from: ashaffee on July 03, 2018, 12:53:21 PM
A response to the 4 players you know that do NB/extreme. I've been grinding out playthroughs on it and tribal every other patch he has made. I use melee in a lot of cases. Melee is 100% the best method vs centipedes. Melee is extremely good vs man hunter packs (strategy is a two thick wall with 2 doors with melee person standing on second door to force animals to attack 1 at a time). Also use melee if my target got cover.
As for infections I never actually wait till the end of the fight to heal my damaged pawns. They leave mid fight to get patched up sometimes. I rarely let any colonist ever go down and if they do they are immediately rescued and patched up.
The only real issue is the difficulty level of this unstable 1.0 has dramatically shifted every couple of days. So to make 100% claims on Tyron theory crafting is kinda bs. Since he is probably testing a version we haven't seen just yet.
I will say though I actually never thought of door manipulation as cheesy or exploitation or boring. Option two was kill box and that is boring. Option 3 was open field battle but in fights with 1 : 2.5 leads your guys to get trapped in a room and door jumping anyway unless you designed a complex flanking base.
In the end the nerf to doors has created more boring microing on my end as I am attempting to self correct this issue. I have to manually remember to open/close normally useless doors. Then afterword I have to revert to kill box strategy after doors have broken which is less fun but really effective for small trickles.
I say the statement "have to" because I haven't figured out how to effectively do it differently. But nerfing door strategy hasn't in my eyes opened any cool new fun ways of combat. Even with corner popping/flanking. I need a safety spot to actually rescue and heal downed people so they don't get infections. With a lot more micro I am figuring this out but this isn't a step in a good direction and a huge hurt to lower difficulties too.
In the door melee situation you describe which funnels melee accessibility to one tile, I have noticed situations where enemy AI pawnstacks multiple units into a single pile, allowing 4+ to simultaneously attack a unit.
This doesn't happen all the time, but if it happens you end up with extreme damage spikes.
Have you not experienced this? Does the door tile prevent the pawn stacking?
Hh derp... You're right there is a poison ship right next to me that i didn't even notice. =/
Quote from: Zoolder on July 03, 2018, 12:07:31 PM
Did some testing of my own and kill boxes are still effective, don't know what everyone is saying. Sappers are still an issue, but feel no different from previous versions. It`s still a massacre when a raid enters a killbox, and with a thick enough perimeter you can respond to any sappers in time to at least hold them off before you can fully respond. Only thing that has really changed noticeably is upkeep cost for turrets, and in my opinion they weren't what made killboxes good and you can do fine with just one colonist and MAYBE a turret to distract anyone who may get there before you.
In my personal opinion, we can't really "fix" killboxes without spamming sappers and sieges every raid, which will lower variety. We just need to accept the fact it will always be a thing and you can't really balance it without making the game less fun for others who don't enjoy that strategy. You're doing the right thing with more versatile raids dropping in and stuff.
My experience has been in that the upkeep isn't noticeable until you've mined out all of the raw steel on the map and then need to drill/trade, so it needs a long playthrough to really feel it. Early game the crunch is components more than steel. But late game, if you play deep in a mountain, you might have trouble affording steel and if you play an open map, you'll have problems making a killbox.
Edit: haha, wondering why half my base is nearly shattered: update increased wood max hp but not current hp ::)
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 01:11:12 PM
In the door melee situation you describe which funnels melee accessibility to one tile, I have noticed situations where enemy AI pawnstacks multiple units into a single pile, allowing 4+ to simultaneously attack a unit.
This doesn't happen all the time, but if it happens you end up with extreme damage spikes.
Have you not experienced this? Does the door tile prevent the pawn stacking?
Supposedly this doesn't happen anymore. It was in one of the patch notes, people can't stack.
So you can just put some armored, semi-disposable melee up front and have a bunch of guys shooting over their shoulder, while the melee raiders have to fight one at a time.
It's easy when it works, which it has so far for me in 1.0, but I haven't played enough to know if it works 100% of the time, there may be times when they stack.
(I would note that while this is pretty effective, it is pretty boring compared to door micro based tactical combat.)
When fighting in doorways, I dont have anyone in the door, i set it to stay open, then have 3 melee on the safe side, each able to hit that single attacker. Then, have shooters behind them. I think the two tiles in front of a shooter are safe, so you can have a LOT of guns aimed at the single door. Thats how I deal with bugs 99% of the time.
Is this an exploit? I dont think so.
Hiho,
there is this stupid little thing that happened to me thrice now in the pawn overview menu right before the Game starts in honest.
- I changed the Nickname of a possible future Colonist
- I hit return to confirm the change
- The Game Starts before I even reviewed all People
Now I either have to life with bad colonists or redo the whole creation process again, trying to find that sweet spot on the planet again and all ..
Please prevent that from happening again.
Quote from: I Am Testing This Game on July 03, 2018, 01:36:40 PM
Supposedly this doesn't happen anymore. It was in one of the patch notes, people can't stack.
So you can just put some armored, semi-disposable melee up front and have a bunch of guys shooting over their shoulder, while the melee raiders have to fight one at a time.
It's easy when it works, which it has so far for me in 1.0, but I haven't played enough to know if it works 100% of the time, there may be times when they stack.
(I would note that while this is pretty effective, it is pretty boring compared to door micro based tactical combat.)
People *can* stack, but it's a lot less practical, more finicky, and dangerous because of how it will push pawns when the destacking is applied. What can happen routinely is manhunters attack + switching off a door, allowing the next one to get an attack at a faster cooldown than normally possible.
To put it bluntly, melee is still not a good option on extreme, though it has some use cases early on with 5v1s on isolated raiders. Even blunt attacks can cause bleeding wounds, which can then get infected. Vs manhunters on that difficulty, it quickly becomes untenable...even in a 1 tile choke with lots of DPS having something like 30 caribou immediately replacing the last will wear you down.
The door nerf is silly...or rather the *way* it was nerfed is silly. The number 1 reason they're so strong is how they manipulate AI pathing and targeting, not because they have a lot of HP. I don't think there's a single theoretical door HP value that leaves doors usable and still fixes this problem...it basically has to be how threats interact with doors, because this is what the micromanagement uses to beat the AI.
Even with ~100 hp steel doors, alpha "9" strat vs manhunters is still killing them with open/shut door micro and shooting them. To make this safe, make a corridor 1 tile wide to limit the #attackers. Compare this to melee: it takes slightly longer to resolve the threat, but literally no pawn takes damage. So long as taking damage is as punitive as it is in the game, any strategy that takes more of it is disproportionately non-viable compared to micromanagement or options that largely or completely avoid damage.
There's an offset problem to this though. Make raiders too door happy, and you open up micro to freely potshot them from other door and/or turn all raid variants into pseudo sappers. I think the best you can do is throw a little more RNG behavior into raiders in terms of firing on doors etc and make their reactions to player actions less predictable. Door HP nerf isn't going to change the realities of the game unless it's so extreme that external base doors are an undue liability.
Woo, I don't check the forums for a few months and THE FINAL UNSTABLE IS HERE.
Game is LOVELY, so much polish and little changes left right and center!
Something happened a day or two into my first game in 1.0, on normal temperate forest map. It seems like ALL of the animals decided to path out of the map at once. A bug? It felt really creepy, would be cool if that happened before some disasters, but it just felt like a bug!
Maybe if they could stop and retreat a bit, move to another spot on the map and harass the player. Then either give up and leave or to try breaking walls where there are no doors near them.
The berry bush does not adhere to its selection box.
It's one of those "literally unplayable" things you know will pop up on reddit sooner or later.
Wish I had more practical feedback to give, but I haven't had time to play. I will say that over the past ~5 alphas I've seen RimWorld's focus shift. It used to be a colony simulator that generated stories because it was a pretty hardcore game. Now it's a story generator that simulates a colony, with the occasional (sometimes hamfisted) event mixed in that was designed to tell stories.
Hearing the same stories over and over again (dogs eating drugs, pyros going crazy, colonists returning to the wild) diminishes the replayability for me, whereas I enjoyed the more natural developing stories.
Objectively, RimWorld 1.0 is a much better game than before. There's more content, there's more polish. Every part of it is better. Subjectively, it feels shallower. There are a lot of systems, but especially some of the newer systems don't go in-depth.
Speaking of systems: There are a couple of classes that are internal which don't necessarily make sense to be internal. I'd really like access to Command_VerbTarget for a turret mod, TrashUtility for a custom raid AI mod and most conveniently the MedicalRecipesUtility, because I keep having to duplicate code or use reflection.
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I want to say that from playing experience I find it hard to utilize armor (mostly plate armor, but powered armor of low quallity too) in colder biomes. Now I'm playing in boreal forest and in winter even guys in power armor of normal quality are chilling at lowest temperatures, so I guess at colder biomes it even less of an option. Plate armor gives almost no insulation so it is viable almost only at summer in these latitudes.
Before I'd compensate it with less protective but better insulating wool button-down shorts and pants, but wool now is not much better at insulating then leather, and can't give them pants at all because armor takes the slot now.
Wool is nerfed too much too, I think. I understand why it has much less armor (despite wool gambesons are a thing), but with muffalo wool giving just 4 degrees more insulation and almost no armor I'd rather use leather for everything. Bluefur parka gives almost same insulation while much better armor, and wolfskin beats wool at everything. So I found myself not needing wool at all in current game.
I kind of miss different move speed and work speed penalties on different apparel so one could choose what to trade for what. Cumbersome but warm parkas made sense. And armor vests should definitely slow pawns as well, at least a bit, so one could trade mobility for armor and vice versa.
For the record, I want to say I absolutely love new armor system. Despite being skeptical about it at first, it's definitely more interesting then previous. Especially the part with turning affected sharp damage in blunt damage, no more thousands of small bleeding infected hare bites for armored pawns, yay! c:
Quote from: JimmyAgnt007 on July 03, 2018, 02:06:29 PM
When fighting in doorways, I dont have anyone in the door, i set it to stay open, then have 3 melee on the safe side, each able to hit that single attacker. Then, have shooters behind them. I think the two tiles in front of a shooter are safe, so you can have a LOT of guns aimed at the single door. Thats how I deal with bugs 99% of the time.
With shields it's viable to have even 1-2 more rows of gunners. Pretty devastating.
Even more caravan stuff (yes, I've been doing some caravaning of late, new quests seem to show up, some of them are even somewhat worth doing):
When caravan creation is interrupted and pawn (and pack animals) have items on them, these items will not show as available to be taken with the caravan, until they are dropped on the ground (any storage area).
This is kinda annoying when you forget to add an item to the caravan, and now you have to wait until everything is unpacked, only to pack it again.
I think making all items visible (including those pawns are carrying, but not gear they wear) would help with this, maybe (?).
I think I'll still need mods like Lush Meadow and Fast Growing Grass, my maps still looks and feel really empty after winter.
Can't you just pause and send them? As far as I know they take what they have in their inventory with them (plus whatever you tell them to take). If you want to unload something you can manually unload it.
TheMeInTeam, I disagree with your statement about melee being non-viable in previous versions and this one. My dominant strat still depends on putting a heavily armored tank in a choke, and has for a while.
I basically couldn't imagine running extreme without melee. I almost always start with a brawler for this reason (Even though melee really takes off in the mid-late game when you have shields and strong armor)
Also, does higher penetration on weapons factor in to organ damage chance? I really think it should, I'm not seeing that it does. I'm noticing very few organ injuries and it would be cool to have weapons that could easily destroy a kidney, especially on someone without armor.
Am I missing something, when it comes to Operations? I have a living outsider and no Operations tab even shows up. It's just not there ... Is there a legit reason for this? If not, looks like a bug.
Further, the Operations tab was missing while she was "Rescued" and then appeared when I captured her. At the same time, another "Rescued" individual DID have the tab. Both were in medical-assigned beds. Both in the same room. Same doctor. One had the tab, one didn't. Both have it now that they are imprisoned. Hope it helps. Thanks.
Thanks.
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I'd like to raise a point that I know is entirely subjective, but one that I think is critical to raise, after a few dozen hours of playing the various iterations of 1.0:
I consider the genuine genius of this game to be the ability for a player to indulge in the weird, the excessive, the outright ridiculous and funny. I don't consider combat to be an end unto itself, but rather the means to the end: another hurdle to be dealt with, so I can get back to doing weird, hilarious and excessive stuff. As a result, anything that distracts or frustrates me from my goal detracts from my fun.
It's not critical to me if combat is perfectly balanced, because I don't play this game for the combat...it's one element of a larger picture, and raids are one threat among many to be dealt with in the overall scheme of things. As a result, I will use cheese tactics unabashedly so I can preserve my colony, keep my colonists safe, and continue to do ridiculous stuff. I will build obscenely large trap mazes, with 24 turrets waiting in a killbox at the end - because there is something glorious and inherently satisfying about watching 50 pirates blunder into it. I'll take a week, realtime, to build a 3-thick wall around my base. I build slowly, play slowly, grow attached to my pawns, and want to keep them from dying by any means necessary...so that I can continue doing ridiculous things. I can absolutely play this game without "cheese", and have - and often make a conscious and deliberate decision to use it for these very reasons...cheese is often hilarious, and lots of fun.
With my personal ethos stated, my conclusion is this: I know that we're in a phase where the game is being re-balanced, so the conversation is naturally being directed towards how combat is being re-vamped, how AI will path better to increase tension and remove "cheese" tactics, etc., and I understand the importance of that in it's context - but I personally feel that the camera lense is narrowing on this to a degree where the other, and for me, more important elements of the game are somewhat falling by the wayside in the conversation: the weird, the bizarre, and especially the hilarious.
Again: I'm speaking subjectively, but I would love to see the focus turn somewhat into how the game is expanding upon those elements that drew me to this game to begin with. I guess it's a fundamental shift from the question "is it balanced/fair" to "is it fun?". For me, fun in this game IS excess. It's watching a Pirate's brain light on fire when they get hit with a Psychic Shock Lance. It's hitting an Animal Pulser for the first time, not knowing what exactly it will do. It's cracking open an Ancient Evil. It's watching two factions battle it out in front of my base with incendiaries, with me running around putting out the flames through the crossfire. It's the first time I discover I can harvest kidneys. It's the first time I tame a boomalope, put him in my barn, and then realize it's got a heart condition. It's Muffalos getting into the yayo while I wasn't watching. It's Pirates running off with one of my colonists. It's manhunter Capybaras.
In short, what I really hope the conversation will turn to at some point in the near future is an emphasis on those elements: a new version of a shock lance that's never been seen before, a new animal that does something weird, new gameplay elements that haven't been seen before which will make a player curse and laugh at the same time...and in equal measure with the attention that re-vamped combat is currently receiving.
Thanks for listening and reading.
- infestation is behaving strange : i got one, letter pointed me to one part of base (1), i happily destroyed single (surprise) nest and went happily further. turns out on other part of my base (2) i got 3 other nests. Should they have been so spread ? As far as i remember (and happened to have earlier) they were more concentrated around single area...
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Not sure if it's a bug or not, I've never had this happen before but one of my melee fighters got their waist cut off, they can walk around fine but can't wear their belt anymore and there's apparently no way to fix it with prosthetics, not even with a mod that expands them
So I have started this game and have gone through many of the builds now. I started out on CL with C/R then switched to RR/R later in into the game. Cass doesn't really allow population growth it feels like and I was starting to bleed pawns and needed some more. I don't try to play perfect having the best pawns most efficient set possible, its not victory at all costs for me it's playing the game. I'll take that old lady w/ bad back and give her a job sweeping just to watch her die of a heart attack later as my doctor tries valiantly to save her! That is just the kind of player I am, but on to other things.
The overall experience of the 1.0 build has been very enjoyable. I'm pretty close to finishing it just have to build a casket for my ship and my hero is leaving his rock. The game feels really good now, I appreciate all the QOL of life stuff that was implemented especially on the work benches. Though I still feel there is room for improvement. I liked most the the graphics that were put in place, the vital monitors and human/bionic/archo tech parts are a little dull/bland for my asthetic appeal though.
The map I was playing on was the largest map on a small hill temperate forest. The map had insane amounts of steel imbedded in the rocks. There wasn't a hill that didn't have exposed steel sticking out of it. My only trouble was the lack of a miner at the start, but once I got one I never ran out of steel. I made only a few purchases of steel and only because i was being lazy and didn't want to haul the steel out side of the base back.
I did start using the Deep drill later just so i can see the infestation event from it. I didn't check the time between the event to fire but it did seem to take a year for it to fire, and then I got 3 back to back with in two seasons maybe one. I had 3 drills up and two of them were close together and one was on the other side of my base. I had two events trigger by the pair close together and one by the farther away drill. So Im assuming each one has its own chance for the event to fire. Though I never lost a drill and the time it took for the bugs to spawn gave me ample amount of time to set up for the attack I felt.
During the middle of the game I had set up a rather large killbox that for a large part of the game I felt was useless and a waste of resources. Most the raids were sappers, I'm okay with that but omg tribal sappers are terrifying. They spawned in pretty close to my base since I wasn't centrally located and they busted through my walls scary quick, only 1 layer thick and was of slate.
I was completely unprepared for this. I want to say i had 10 colonist at the time and close to 20 tribals spawned in. I had made a pretty crucial mistake in dumping too much of the resouces i had into the killbox so I didn't really have any weapon production and the last raid I had was a year ago.
So most my weapons were bows and short bows at that. It was brutal I lost two people in the fighting itself and another one in the aftermath of trying to recover. This was the lowest point in my game, everyone was wounded bad. I had to kill every single tribesman which I haven't seen before. None broke and fled which I felt was odd. After the battle I was plagued w/ mental breaks,infections, and severe pain on almost every one.
Another huge problem were the walls all over my base were cracked open including my freezer. This wasn't a huge deal since this happened in decemberary and the temp was negative but my freezer had the only food source on the map. So every wild and domesticated animal was filling up on my food stock. It reminded me of a scence in Evan Almighty lol.
It was at this point i decided to switch to Randy Rough for more pawns. But after the fighting had stopped and the dust had settled we rebuilt not just the walls and buildings but the mood and thoughts and ultimately the colonly its self.=P After that point I made weapon and armor production a priority and placed auto cannons surrounding my base in a fashion they can reach each other. Some melee traps around them with a turret or two close by.
Didn't really have too much trouble any more with sappers.
Had a couple of drop pods crash through and few psychic ships. One psychic ship landed right in my kill box and I laughed with joy over this. So the kill box did prove its worth later in the game when i was getting larger mech raids. The buff to hydroponics I feel might be to strong I was able to sustain a 24 man colony off two green houses of Hydroponics and 1 with rich soil and never struggled with food again after that. Overall felt the experience was rather enjoyable and a load of fun. Thanks for making a great game!
https://imgur.com/a/JyJnvak
A little story about how to properly deal with alien invaders. Just laughed about this punch in the face. ;D
Also first time see such nice drop right at bedrooms in the middle of the night. Cassy, Hard, 450k, autumn 5504.
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Quote from: gadjung on July 03, 2018, 05:02:46 PM
- infestation is behaving strange : i got one, letter pointed me to one part of base (1), i happily destroyed single (surprise) nest and went happily further. turns out on other part of my base (2) i got 3 other nests. Should they have been so spread ? As far as i remember (and happened to have earlier) they were more concentrated around single area...
This isn't new.
See here an old thread: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=40793.msg409404#msg409404
Quote from: Awe on July 03, 2018, 05:30:27 PM
Cassy, Hard, 450k, autumn 5504.
Oh wow. Maybe that's why my raids feel so weak. I have 150k wealth in winter '03, mostly a straight-line increase from the start of the game.
By the way, a raid with a doomsday rocket launcher came. I tried to send a sacrificial muffalo, but it didn't run to the new zone. Instead, I had to use a recently purchased insanity lance.
Of course, blue vs red decide to go at it inside my base -____-, can't even sneak into to firefoam the place with all the grenades flying lol.
Funny, but if they destroy my advanced components I swear I'm killing them all.
Edit: OH AND OF COURSE, I lose relation faction when the jerks kill each other. AAAAAAARG
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Hi, I found a somewhat slight problem; colonists have an annoying habit of repairing smoothed cave walls, after designating these for mining. In my current game, one colonist could be trying to mine the wall, while another would be trying to repair it. I can solve the problem simply by drafting the repairing colonist, but sometimes the miner can start repairing the wall before he finishes mining it.
Another thing that I am not sure it is indeed a problem or just my lack of familiarity with that aspect of the game is that I keep losing bonded animals to suicidal charges against enemies. I don't think any of these animals were actually defined as aggressive, and some of them should not be so, to begin with (like a pet rabbit). Is it really a game problem, or did I miss something in animal settings?
Quote from: MerlinEngine on July 03, 2018, 06:30:02 PM
Another thing that I am not sure it is indeed a problem or just my lack of familiarity with that aspect of the game is that I keep losing bonded animals to suicidal charges against enemies. I don't think any of these animals were actually defined as aggressive, and some of them should not be so, to begin with (like a pet rabbit). Is it really a game problem, or did I miss something in animal settings?
In the animal tab you can set the animal to follow a person and right beside there are two options, one to follow when they exit the base while not drafted and another while drafted. Just uncheck both and they will stay in the area you predetermined for them.
Saw a pawn throwing horseshoes right through closed doors. This is everything you need to know about doors now.
I just built an awful wooden dresser, I thought the "awful" quality was removed. Screenshot in the attachment.
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I've always been wondering about weapons like the Pila. Should it's damage be toned down a little, and it's ranged buffed a bit?
Mostly asking because the Pila basically split everything in half, assuming it doesn't hit the torso of the target. It it supposed to be that powerful?
Basically every time you hit something it loses a limb unless said limb is armored (which rarely exists outside of mods).
Maybe an added weaker throwing spear variant? I don't know, I'm just spiralling ideas.
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 09:57:54 AM
Debuff greatbow a bit.
uh, does that mean nerf?
I'd like the new berries to be brighter. They are hard to see against the green now...
Quote from: Admiral Obvious on July 03, 2018, 08:04:51 PM
Pila basically split everything in half, assuming it doesn't hit the torso of the target. It it supposed to be that powerful?
A pilum will absolutely ruin any limb it strikes directly. It doesn't go as fast as a bullet, but it is much, much bigger:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum#/media/File:Pilum_light_-_cropped.jpg
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on July 03, 2018, 09:08:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Obvious on July 03, 2018, 08:04:51 PM
Pila basically split everything in half, assuming it doesn't hit the torso of the target. It it supposed to be that powerful?
A pilum will absolutely ruin any limb it strikes directly. It doesn't go as fast as a bullet, but it is much, much bigger:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum#/media/File:Pilum_light_-_cropped.jpg
If we're talking IRL terms, it's not the realm of theorycraft. Pila are a joke compared to bullets vs armor, but even w/o armor their speed and momentum would be partially absorbed by the fact that the limb moves in response to the hit and that anything but a super-precise direct hit would gouge --> be redirected by bone (this would not de-limb, but you'd not be using it for much any time soon). Also pila and bow range in the game are way higher in proportion to guns compared to IRL - shotguns firing slugs can be pretty threatening out to distances the game represents as sniper range and beyond :p.
The game doesn't and shouldn't represent these weapons realistically - proportionate range, accuracy, etc to real life would require a ground-up rework of the entire thing and subpar though melee is in Rimworld now outside of controlled engages, it would be nigh useless in such a scenario. Construction and healing rate etc are all obvious deviations from reality too...reality isn't a workable metric here except a a guideline for representation.
Pila kind of need the damage in the game to justify the long windup...they're one of those weapons you can freely shot and avoid return fire with basic micro if you have a fast gun. They're like a weak sniper with ~half the range and an awful weapon. Getting hit by one suggests you screwed up somehow :D.
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on July 03, 2018, 09:08:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Obvious on July 03, 2018, 08:04:51 PM
Pila basically split everything in half, assuming it doesn't hit the torso of the target. It it supposed to be that powerful?
A pilum will absolutely ruin any limb it strikes directly. It doesn't go as fast as a bullet, but it is much, much bigger:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum#/media/File:Pilum_light_-_cropped.jpg
Oh, I definitely know that. It's more of a matter of "you broke his leg with the pila" as it should be, instead of "the Pila literally removed the entire leg in one strike".
The standing still bug happened again today .. Scenario .. Refugee, i stopped him at the edge of the map, checked out his traits, did not want him thus I drafted him to fight his assailant. He won, I banished him, the assailant who was far worse off eventually got up and walked off the map. The banned refugee stood there for so long I finally opened dev mode and deleted him. This bug I have seen with the resting action and standing action. I have seen it with colonists and raiders.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1430811637
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 10:49:16 AM
What is your envisioned fair fight on extreme fighting outnumbered?
Tynan has explained this. It's "extreme." Not "fair."
I don't know if he has some kind of target survivability rate for extreme level, or how much luck should factor into fighting versus this allegéd class of extremely skilled players, buuuuuut, I believe his answer will be choose a different difficulty setting unless you just want to see how long you can withstand unfair encounters.
Its tynan himself who refers to players who actually have an unusually high tolerance for trading shots on extreme as exhibitors of cheesy play (and I play far, far, more cheesier than him). So I am curious what he designates as non cheesy play on extreme? Does it correspond to anything we see in reality?
Quote from: bbqftw on July 03, 2018, 10:25:53 PM
Its tynan himself who refers to players who actually have an unusually high tolerance for trading shots on extreme as exhibitors of cheesy play (and I play far, far, more cheesier than him). So I am curious what he designates as non cheesy play on extreme? Does it correspond to anything we see in reality?
I don't agree that Tynan ever said that. You are implying a statement. However I do agree that I am now unsure the direction he is trying to pursue. I am no longer sure what he considers the optimal way to do combat without micromanagement. It seems to me the easiest fix to this was lower difficulty required less micromanagement.
You could set door hp to 1 and it'd still be possible to manipulate thrumbo pathing with them and kill thrumbos with bows on day 14 without anybody being attacked. Not that anybody seems to care once "exploit" or "cheese" start creeping in to kill rational discussion.
The word "cheese" in gaming is almost universally incoherent regardless of who uses it. To be an exception, one would need to actually define it in a self-consistent way (failing that makes a stated position necessarily incoherent = irrational)...and this definition would allow us to anticipate what would get named cheese in the future *without* naming common "WAD" game practices. Players and devs alike across every genre consistently fail to do this in any way that does not literally constrain the definition to bug usage.
Broadly speaking, when people use this they really mean "tactics I don't like", usually because game interactions done by other players are different from what was anticipated.
Calling a strategy "cheesy" or "exploit-y" necessarily designates an abandonment of the evaluation process used in this thread: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41839.0 . Notably, if you hit control-F and search for either you won't see one instance of either word on the entirety of page 1.
Nerfing or buffing door HP is disjointed from what makes AI manipulation aided by doors a 9 tactic.
QuoteDoes it correspond to anything we see in reality?
No. It doesn't matter if it's here, EU 4, FTL, Civ forums, or even stuff like Fortnite/CoD/madden (madden community is particularly bad). When someone falls back on "cheese" to call out something they don't like without presenting supportive reasoning for why it's a degenerate tactic, it's a giant red flag on the rationale and a white flag as an argumentative proposition. In this case, the disconnect with reality results in a change that can't and won't address the problem on its own, and the problem wouldn't exist under different AI patterns.
All of this is completely separate from the consideration of "how much HP should doors have in general". There are lots of factors that go into that. However, if we want to partition different methods of presenting pawns unfair advantages over raiders into good vs bad from a design standpoint, simply stating "cheese" or "exploit" is not and can't be valid on its own.
QuoteI don't agree that Tynan ever said that. You are implying a statement.
He's not exactly reaching far:
Quote from: Tynan on July 03, 2018, 06:49:30 AM
After you nerf an exploit-y strategy, the game will often become harder/too hard. The solution then generally isn't to bring back the cheesy strategy, but to redesign/rebalance game to be nicely playable without the cheesy strategy. So I may end up e.g. nerfing the manhunters, for example.
As for which strategies are cheesy vs "too good" vs acceptable, who knows at this point. But if you want to weaken door micro, the answer is in AI response, not door HP. If you just want the game to better constrain which defenses are viable, making raiders a bit more likely to target doors and make doors even weaker certainly accomplishes that. Depends on the goal...but removing "cheese" is literally meaningless.
Other feedback:
The plate armour angles on the side view are too exaggerated. It looks like they are cosplaying centipedes.
Reduction in work cost for many crafted items makes it cost an inordinate amount of materials to train crafting.
Contribution to killbox discussion:
There are cases where pawns will not moved to the ordered tile if other pawns are in the way. This is really annoying since the game gives feedback with the green circle on where a pawn has been ordered to move. So the pawn better actually end up there.
Funnily enough, the fact that drafted pawns now block each other means that killboxes are relatively stronger than before. They also don't require smooth control, or pawns to end up exactly where ordered. The patch that was supposed to nerf killboxes turned me into a killbox player. A properly constructed one works just fine, even against sappers and whatnot.
Whee, getting ready to blast off!
I think this sums up my first ship warmup battle with 64 tribals lol. Looks like the pathing that now blocks pawns has some interesting effects on sappers. 50 sappers took about half a minute to pour in from a 1 block hole, enough to have two mortars slam into them. It wasn't pretty for them.
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Grammatic recommendation:
I don't believe that the term "Prosthetic Heart" is grammatically correct: I'm pretty sure that prosthetics only refer to external replacement body parts.
I'd suggest a replacement along the lines of "Simple Artificial Heart" (which brings to mind the Jarvik 7)
https://www.jarvikheart.com/history/robert-jarvik-on-the-jarvik-7/
Back to the game...
aaaaaand this is why you can't entirely rely on a killbox ::) This would have been the worst way to lose if I didn't also gear myself xD
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Quote from: Greep on July 04, 2018, 12:58:48 AM
aaaaaand this is why you can't entirely rely on a killbox ::) This would have been the worst way to lose if I didn't also gear myself xD
Why use one killbox when you can use many :D ? Also i improved the killboxes by having doors on the sides so i could kill the sappers while they were busy doing sapping stuff.
Also people should use IEDs more. They are quite great problem solvers.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/o7pu0pq6pvs3hdj/20180701212111_1.jpg?dl=1)
Well, by now my fort is pretty much one giant killbox. At first I was mainly using autocannons for cover and some assistance, now they do most of the dirty work.
But, solar flaaaaaaaare nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Thinkfully the tribals were the braindead preparing for assault kind so I mortared half of them to death before breaking out the charge rifles and shield melees
Edit: Is you fort an FTL ship? o.O
Your whole base is a box.
Much killing happened within.
Therefore, your base is a killbox. :).
On a serious note, I notice a distinct lack of stone chunks in your screenshot except for the lower-right corner. About how much of the map do you guesstimate that you've stripped of stone chunks to build perimeter walls and stuff? I've never actually used up all of the stone chunks on a map before, but now that Deep Drills can produce stone Chunks, I might need to stop thinking of stone as a non-renewable resource.
EDIT: Holy carp, Orassans has been updated already? Wow. That's dedication.
There's a fair amount of stone left on the map but I think I used the majority of it. The infestations from deep drilling are a serious pain, though, so I would honestly not bother drilling for stone unless the infestations do not occur when drilling for non-metal.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 03, 2018, 04:57:53 PM
I'd like to raise a point that I know is entirely subjective, but one that I think is critical to raise, after a few dozen hours of playing the various iterations of 1.0:
I consider the genuine genius of this game to be the ability for a player to indulge in the weird, the excessive, the outright ridiculous and funny. I don't consider combat to be an end unto itself, but rather the means to the end: another hurdle to be dealt with, so I can get back to doing weird, hilarious and excessive stuff. As a result, anything that distracts or frustrates me from my goal detracts from my fun.
It's not critical to me if combat is perfectly balanced, because I don't play this game for the combat...it's one element of a larger picture, and raids are one threat among many to be dealt with in the overall scheme of things. As a result, I will use cheese tactics unabashedly so I can preserve my colony, keep my colonists safe, and continue to do ridiculous stuff. I will build obscenely large trap mazes, with 24 turrets waiting in a killbox at the end - because there is something glorious and inherently satisfying about watching 50 pirates blunder into it. I'll take a week, realtime, to build a 3-thick wall around my base. I build slowly, play slowly, grow attached to my pawns, and want to keep them from dying by any means necessary...so that I can continue doing ridiculous things. I can absolutely play this game without "cheese", and have - and often make a conscious and deliberate decision to use it for these very reasons...cheese is often hilarious, and lots of fun.
With my personal ethos stated, my conclusion is this: I know that we're in a phase where the game is being re-balanced, so the conversation is naturally being directed towards how combat is being re-vamped, how AI will path better to increase tension and remove "cheese" tactics, etc., and I understand the importance of that in it's context - but I personally feel that the camera lense is narrowing on this to a degree where the other, and for me, more important elements of the game are somewhat falling by the wayside in the conversation: the weird, the bizarre, and especially the hilarious.
Again: I'm speaking subjectively, but I would love to see the focus turn somewhat into how the game is expanding upon those elements that drew me to this game to begin with. I guess it's a fundamental shift from the question "is it balanced/fair" to "is it fun?". For me, fun in this game IS excess. It's watching a Pirate's brain light on fire when they get hit with a Psychic Shock Lance. It's hitting an Animal Pulser for the first time, not knowing what exactly it will do. It's cracking open an Ancient Evil. It's watching two factions battle it out in front of my base with incendiaries, with me running around putting out the flames through the crossfire. It's the first time I discover I can harvest kidneys. It's the first time I tame a boomalope, put him in my barn, and then realize it's got a heart condition. It's Muffalos getting into the yayo while I wasn't watching. It's Pirates running off with one of my colonists. It's manhunter Capybaras.
In short, what I really hope the conversation will turn to at some point in the near future is an emphasis on those elements: a new version of a shock lance that's never been seen before, a new animal that does something weird, new gameplay elements that haven't been seen before which will make a player curse and laugh at the same time...and in equal measure with the attention that re-vamped combat is currently receiving.
Thanks for listening and reading.
I just want to add that I completely disagree with this notion. If you want easier combat, just lower the difficulty. That is it.
If you leave in those cheesy tactics, many people feel like they should use them. They are fun. For a while. But then it becomes a boring chore. It essentially removes element of a game, and instead add something you have to do every time, just to render one part of the game pointless.
Pawns getting hurt and scarred in different (weird, funny, etc.) ways is part of the game. Losing is part of the game. If you want to play the game in a different fashion (render combat pointless) just mod it out. Completed game should have all of its elements meaningful.
QuoteI just want to add that I completely disagree with this notion. If you want easier combat, just lower the difficulty. That is it.
If you leave in those cheesy tactics, many people feel like they should use them. They are fun. For a while.
I'd like to see evidence that someone claiming a tactic is cheesy knows what cheesy is. Even in their own terms. I don't think you do. I don't think Teleblaster does. And I don't think Tynan does.
Why do I think that way? Because to this point, not one person has taken the time to frame the term in a way that distinguishes "cheese tactic" from "gameplay" in any meaningful capacity whatsoever. Meanwhile, the thought process is a deviation from the stated process for balancing Rimworld!
Put another way, that's at least three people now (actually more) that are straight up claiming with a straight face that the act of opening and shutting a door intentionally is cheese in Rimworld, and that somehow tuning the HP of a door changes how this interaction works in practice. No sell. For there to be a legit (IE coherent) case, that criteria must exist and it must anticipate and separate normal game actions from alleged "cheese" consistently.
You'll find it's hard. I suspect you can't do it. Usually people start along the lines of "abusing the AI", not noticing how this suggests most raid logic shouldn't exist at all. But maybe you can, beating the odds set by hundreds of people before. Maybe it's not impossible. Let's see.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 04, 2018, 12:48:31 AM
I don't believe that the term "Prosthetic Heart" is grammatically correct: I'm pretty sure that prosthetics only refer to external replacement body parts.
The defintion of prosthetic I got is: "a device, either external
or implanted, that substitutes for or supplements a missing or defective part of the body."
Well at least someone gets to enjoy the apocalypse. I was like.. HOW IS THIS GUY HAPPY?! That being said, the end of the game is really insane. I don't think I'm going to make it xD 4 days 5 raids :o Guys can't even have time to eat, sleep, rearm cannons, and tend wounds.
[attachment deleted due to age]
TheMeInTeam, almost anything that is real and important can't be perfectly, crisply defined. They don't need to be to be important and meaningful concepts. Compare arguments:
"Cheesy tactics can't be strictly, perfectly defined therefore the concept is meaningless and kiting a thrumbo between two doorways for 30 hours while killing it risk-free with short bows isn't really distinguishable from fighting a positional battle with multiple raiders, therefore trying to increase non-cheese tactics is foolish."
"Porn can't be strictly, perfectly defined therefore the concept is meaningless and a close-up video of multiple naked people having sex isn't really distinguishable from a video of a couple talking at a restaurant, therefore trying to exclude porn from any space is foolish."
I've seen the same content-free argument - that definitions aren't perfect therefore goals are meaningless - wrongly applied to game cheese tactics, porn, racism, sexism, gender, communism, Naziism, extremism, terrorism, politics, religion, and everything else people argue about.
It's a "fully general" argument in the sense that it can be used to attack almost any position on any topic. Also, notably, while this argument is usable to attack any idea, it cannot be used to actually create any positive meaning, only break down meanings.
It can be used universally way because anything real is complex and has fuzzy definitional boundaries. If we excluded terms with fuzzy boundaries from our discussion, we would literally not be able to say anything about reality.
The fact that the argument works no matter the target means that it is a specious argument. (If any argument can be used to take any position, it logically cannot be correct since it cancels itself.) It's just a meaningless attack tactic used to break down structures of meaning, drawn from Marxist dialectic, which works in some cases because it's easier to make the argument than to explain why it's so completely wrong.
Reality: Cheesy tactics, while we can't hard-define them, exist all the same as porn, religion, and terrorism. And we can and should determine the meaning of that any take action in accordance with that meaning. In this case, cheesy tactics fill player time that could be spent in more rewarding ways, and I want to shift that time from tediously and risklessly killing a Thrumbo with door-cheese to engaging with stories and game system in deeper, more varied, more storyful, more memorable ways.
---
Leaving aside the content of what you're saying, which is not rule-breaking, the tone of how you're saying it is. Consider this your warning: The way you're continually hammering this point with an aggressive tone and taking personal potshots at me and others is now a combined rule 1 and rule 2 violation.
You may post in this thread, but if you make anything personal, express hostility or anger towards anyone or anything, you're likely to earn a ban. My friendly suggestion is to take a few days time out.
If you do post again, either tell a specific story about something that happened to you in game, or give a concrete suggestion for a specific change you'd want to see in-game.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 02:04:37 AM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 04, 2018, 12:48:31 AM
I don't believe that the term "Prosthetic Heart" is grammatically correct: I'm pretty sure that prosthetics only refer to external replacement body parts.
The defintion of prosthetic I got is: "a device, either external or implanted, that substitutes for or supplements a missing or defective part of the body."
I think there are two types of heart "solutions" which aren't full bore transplants. I think there's a "synthetic heart" which would be a full replacement of the heart itself as a type of "advanced" heart. We haven't perfected synthetic hearts yet. Then there's a "mechanical heart" where you have an implanted machine which helps to regulate the heartbeat. It's not quite the same as a pacemaker either. I don't know too much about it, but ice met a few people with the latter.
I think synthetic would be a more proper term for organ replacements over prosthetic, though it doesn't really matter much.
The term "prosthetic" has a bit of a game mechanics meaning too, though. It denotes a certain tech level of artificial parts. Prosthetic -> Bionic -> Archotech. Hence the choice of prosthetic. It makes all the parts of each tier group together nicely on lists.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 02:43:01 AM
The term "prosthetic" has a bit of a game mechanics meaning too, though. It denotes a certain tech level of artificial parts. Prosthetic -> Bionic -> Archotech. Hence the choice of prosthetic. It makes all the parts of each tier group together nicely on lists.
Indeed it does. Just my 2 cents on the topic.
If it's a matter of helping the player know "prosthetic is tier 1" that's fine to keep it as it is. I don't mind either way, I'm just having fun with each patch as they come along.
On the much lighter and objective subject of grammar - The Jealous trait.
Modern english has mashed Jealousy and Envy together but strictly speaking Jealousy is a fear of losing something while Envy is the desire to have something you lack.
You might Jealously guard your treasure, but you wouldn't Enviously guard it.
Envy is more about coveting things.
There's also a small typo in the shield belt research description "which use momentun-repulsion"
---
In other news the plate armor cost change feels about right, it still requires a lot of research but once that's done it feels fairly efficient to slap on some armor, particularly for melee focused pawns as they typically eat a bit of extra gunfire and the extra blunt resistance when compared to clothing is more relevant.
In my melee-only game (using a gun to hunt occasionally but that's the extent of it) the transition from steel armor to shield belts was pretty harsh but I think that was mostly due to a significant wealth increase caused by the first devilstrand crop.
Suffered a bit of a trader drought as well which bad luck.
Overall once shield belts are available melee is in a pretty excellent spot against anything short of coordinated volleys. Shield belts even do a pretty good job of mitigating doomsday rockets. The abundance of heat armor on most high-end equipment makes inferno cannons considerably less likely to cause a critical failure spiral too.
It's still quite finicky to get 10+ pawns meleeing the correct targets even in an open field, a search-and-destroy style feature would be useful. On average I'd prefer melee pawns to have the option of always attacking the closest target.
Currently you can kind of achieve this by setting pawns to attack when confronted with an enemy and de-drafting them but.. then you've obviously de-drafted your pawn and need to re-draft it to exert any control over it. It also occasionally causes pawns who are too far away from an enemy to just go about their day harvesting crops instead of fighting.
I was pleasantly surprised to find that melee skill levels up really fast even without a passion. Melee passions aren't particularly uncommon in any case but I don't feel the need to restrict my recruitment based on them which is nice.
---
I finally got to play with the Tough trait a bit and.. only cow it's ridiculously desirable. It's applied before armor mitigation which is a real doozy. Bringing a 10 damage shot down to 6 and then down to 3 is a big deal.
I'm not quite sure what - if any - effect it has on armor durability, I tried to test to see if it reduced the durability loss of armor but completely failed. There seemed to be some variance and decimal-pointing going on that I couldn't account for in game.
Overall it probably shouldn't reduce the durability damage that armor takes, as its effect is already extremely strong.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 02:27:57 AM
TheMeInTeam, almost anything that is real and important can't be perfectly, crisply defined. They don't need to be to be important and meaningful concepts. Compare arguments:
"Cheesy tactics can't be strictly, perfectly defined therefore the concept is meaningless and kiting a thrumbo between two doorways for 30 hours while killing it risk-free with short bows isn't really distinguishable from fighting a positional battle with multiple raiders, therefore trying to increase non-cheese tactics is foolish."
"Porn can't be strictly, perfectly defined therefore the concept is meaningless and a close-up video of multiple naked people having sex isn't really distinguishable from a video of a couple talking at a restaurant, therefore trying to exclude porn from any space is foolish."
I've seen the same content-free argument - that definitions aren't perfect therefore goals are meaningless - wrongly applied to game cheese tactics, porn, racism, sexism, gender, communism, Naziism, extremism, terrorism, politics, religion, and everything else people argue about.
It's a "fully general" argument in the sense that it can be used to attack almost any position on any topic. Also, notably, while this argument is usable to attack any idea, it cannot be used to actually create any positive meaning, only break down meanings.
It can be used universally way because anything real is complex and has fuzzy definitional boundaries. If we excluded terms with fuzzy boundaries from our discussion, we would literally not be able to say anything about reality.
The fact that the argument works no matter the target means that it is a specious argument. (If any argument can be used to take any position, it logically cannot be correct since it cancels itself.) It's just a meaningless attack tactic used to break down structures of meaning, drawn from Marxist dialectic, which works in some cases because it's easier to make the argument than to explain why it's so completely wrong.
Reality: Cheesy tactics, while we can't hard-define them, exist all the same as porn, religion, and terrorism. And we can and should determine the meaning of that any take action in accordance with that meaning. In this case, cheesy tactics fill player time that could be spent in more rewarding ways, and I want to shift that time from tediously and risklessly killing a Thrumbo with door-cheese to engaging with stories and game system in deeper, more varied, more storyful, more memorable ways.
---
Leaving aside the content of what you're saying, which is not rule-breaking, the tone of how you're saying it is. Consider this your warning: The way you're continually hammering this point with an aggressive tone and taking personal potshots at me and others is now a combined rule 1 and rule 2 violation.
You may post in this thread, but if you make anything personal, express hostility or anger towards anyone or anything, you're likely to earn a ban. My friendly suggestion is to take a few days time out.
If you do post again, either tell a specific story about something that happened to you in game, or give a concrete suggestion for a specific change you'd want to see in-game.
You are correct, there is a definition for cheese. It is "stuff I don't like."
I will point out that TMIT gave a number of constructive suggestions for improving raid behavior and unpredictability. Just because he is effective in breaking your vision to a degree that even most extreme players do not achieve doesn't mean he's wrong.
Incidentally, your envisioned positional battle against raiders is as full with AI manipulation as thrumbo looping.
Things like intentional cover placement to get no cover shots, breaking LoS by watching AI targeting behavior, maximizing Xv1 interactions, arguably even knowledge of the peek mechanic and its various effects all involve some or large measures of AI manip.
Let me start off by apologizing. When I get into something I do lose control of my tone sometimes, and I realize this is a flaw that interferes with my ability to be constructive, to the thread or even for myself. At no point have I actually felt hostile to anybody, but reading over the posts...not a good look for me. I should be able to get my point across w/o resorting to that.
To make this more succinct, less hostile and actually on topic:
- It's not true that I made a fully general argument. Bugs, crashes, even porn actually do have criteria/definitions that allow people to anticipate future observations that fit the category. These are almost always self-consistent to one person. Several of the other terms too. Cheese does not, unless we're talking about food, it's not even *broadly* defined in context of one person using it multiple times. Building on that,
- It is my impression that a focus on this resulted in a mistaken change based on stated premise - in other words, if there are actions you wish to eliminate from Rimworld the particular door change does not accomplish that goal. For example if we hold the "kill thrumbo with bow and pathing abuse" is undesirable for the game, no HP value for a door gets rid of the tactic. You can do it with 1 HP wooden doors at will.
- Suggestion: There are two parts to this. First is whether to give doors some HP back and/or how much they "should have". For this part I don't know, it depends on other factors including part of below. But what I do know:
If you want to shut down consistently free trades from opening/shutting doors, it's the point of interaction with the door that would most benefit from alteration. One/some combination of these would change the picture a lot more than HP changes:
- Make doors close more slowly (wood/steel at 200 ticks for example), allowing all but the slowest weapons shots in the interim. Leave opening speed the same so it doesn't bleed base efficiency. Maybe autodoors can be faster, giving a little boost to using them.
- Have raiders carry their aim on pawns behind doors through, continuing to shoot the door like manhunters, maybe longer. This would make the HP value more meaningful too.
- Similarly, enemy melee sometimes attacking doors or waiting for a chance to rush in would disincentivize open/shut door play a bit.
I don't have a good solution for thrumbo/manhunter pathing manipulation, shortening alternate path checks won't solve it...a second door is still free hits.
QuoteIncidentally, your envisioned positional battle against raiders is as full with AI manipulation as thrumbo looping.
This is, unfortunately, true. Especially once you know how the AI prioritizes cover. It's free trades regardless and I think the AI itself needs to be made intentionally less predictable to address it.
And now that I've stated a case with less making a fool of myself, I'll take your suggestion. Apologies again.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 04, 2018, 02:55:06 AM
You are correct, there is a definition for cheese. It is "stuff I don't like."
I will point out that TMIT gave a number of constructive suggestions for improving raid behavior and unpredictability. Just because he is effective in breaking your vision to a degree that even most extreme players do not achieve doesn't mean he's wrong.
Incidentally, your envisioned positional battle against raiders is as full with AI manipulation as thrumbo looping.
I'm pretty sure the definition of cheese in gaming is "a strategy or use of mechanics which isn't be foreseen by the opposing player or developer which will guarantee a win, but can easily be defeated if the opponent knew of the strategy before hand".
Like, in one of the war games I play, I have 5k resources. I build a balanced army with a mix of everything. My opponent uses exclusively attack helicopters which overwhelm what would be a reasonable amount of AA a reasonable player would bring, as well as a sweeping counter the rest of the army leading to the choppers steamrolling.
Cheese is basically an exploit of the game mechanics, and is usually detrimental to most of the parties involved. It however is up to the developer to set artificial limits to stop, or at least reduce the viability of cheese tactics.
For doors, there probably should be a mechanic which for a short period of time which prevents a door from closing if something is in the process of transitioning into the tile. That might prevent some degree of "door cheesing" provided you can still block it with the pawn in hand to hand combat.
So, made it to the 5 day mark. The odds of myself making it to launch are 0% at this points, too many deaths and mass carnage.
While I'm having fun, this definitely needs to be toned down IMO: I've had more raids in the past five days than in the past 2 years. That kind of "haha, if it's your first time, you just lose" works well in something like they are billions where the game is an hour long or so, but it's a little disappointing after a 40 hour game. An "insane challenge" would have been fun rather than something that makes all of the rest of the game look kind of silly.
My fort currently looks like below ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: bbqftw on July 04, 2018, 02:55:06 AM
Incidentally, your envisioned positional battle against raiders is as full with AI manipulation as thrumbo looping.
Things like intentional cover placement to get no cover shots, breaking LoS by watching AI targeting behavior, maximizing Xv1 interactions, arguably even knowledge of the peek mechanic and its various effects all involve some or large measures of AI manip.
I've never said "AI manipulation" is a problem. The whole point of having an AI is so players can work to manipulate it.
A move you can do over and over, to win risk-free against threats that are supposed to be far more powerful, is a problem. That's cheese. Not the stuff you mentioned, that stuff's all fine and is the point of the game.
"maximizing Xv1 interactions" is not the same category as "kite a thrumbo between 2 doorways for 30 hours and kill it risk-free with bows". Both are "AI manipulation", only one is cheese.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 04, 2018, 03:03:41 AM
...
I should note that I never intended the door health change to completely solve every issue with door-based cheesy tactics. I'm aware that a full solution would require some heavy AI changes (e.g. enemies take overwatch positions on doors when they see your guys go in, things like that).
The thing is, "change the health of the door" takes me about 5 minutes, while "heavy AI changes" takes potentially weeks. So I choose to at least try the 5 minute change first. Nobody ever thought it was a complete solution, so to state that it's not a complete solution is not disagreeing with me at all.
It'd be really useful from my point of view to hear just more straight up play stories. A lot of this discussion seems to resolve around people criticizing changes based on their guesses about what my expectations or intent was for those changes. It's just not that productive, and I don't have time to explain every detail of every experiment I'm running, every plan we've got backlogged, and so on.
Please, please, just tell me your experiences and your suggestions for changes to make - but criticizing my
thought process is meaningless because
you don't know what my thought process is and it's not practical for me to constantly update everyone on it. To assume my thought process and then criticize that assumed entity is just yelling at clouds.
I'd like to get this thread back on track and end the side discussions. Please make posts that are directly experience based, not assuming others' thought processes, and not responding to arguments with arguments. Other posts may be deleted.
I do want to reaffirm that overall this thread is very useful. Thanks to all those who participate, especially writing nice play stories. The process continues to run well.
Quote from: Perq on July 04, 2018, 01:33:20 AM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 03, 2018, 04:57:53 PM
I'd like to raise a point that I know is entirely subjective, but one that I think is critical to raise, after a few dozen hours of playing the various iterations of 1.0:
I consider the genuine genius of this game to be the ability for a player to indulge in the weird, the excessive, the outright ridiculous and funny. I don't consider combat to be an end unto itself, but rather the means to the end: another hurdle to be dealt with, so I can get back to doing weird, hilarious and excessive stuff. As a result, anything that distracts or frustrates me from my goal detracts from my fun.
It's not critical to me if combat is perfectly balanced, because I don't play this game for the combat...it's one element of a larger picture, and raids are one threat among many to be dealt with in the overall scheme of things. As a result, I will use cheese tactics unabashedly so I can preserve my colony, keep my colonists safe, and continue to do ridiculous stuff. I will build obscenely large trap mazes, with 24 turrets waiting in a killbox at the end - because there is something glorious and inherently satisfying about watching 50 pirates blunder into it. I'll take a week, realtime, to build a 3-thick wall around my base. I build slowly, play slowly, grow attached to my pawns, and want to keep them from dying by any means necessary...so that I can continue doing ridiculous things. I can absolutely play this game without "cheese", and have - and often make a conscious and deliberate decision to use it for these very reasons...cheese is often hilarious, and lots of fun.
With my personal ethos stated, my conclusion is this: I know that we're in a phase where the game is being re-balanced, so the conversation is naturally being directed towards how combat is being re-vamped, how AI will path better to increase tension and remove "cheese" tactics, etc., and I understand the importance of that in it's context - but I personally feel that the camera lense is narrowing on this to a degree where the other, and for me, more important elements of the game are somewhat falling by the wayside in the conversation: the weird, the bizarre, and especially the hilarious.
Again: I'm speaking subjectively, but I would love to see the focus turn somewhat into how the game is expanding upon those elements that drew me to this game to begin with. I guess it's a fundamental shift from the question "is it balanced/fair" to "is it fun?". For me, fun in this game IS excess. It's watching a Pirate's brain light on fire when they get hit with a Psychic Shock Lance. It's hitting an Animal Pulser for the first time, not knowing what exactly it will do. It's cracking open an Ancient Evil. It's watching two factions battle it out in front of my base with incendiaries, with me running around putting out the flames through the crossfire. It's the first time I discover I can harvest kidneys. It's the first time I tame a boomalope, put him in my barn, and then realize it's got a heart condition. It's Muffalos getting into the yayo while I wasn't watching. It's Pirates running off with one of my colonists. It's manhunter Capybaras.
In short, what I really hope the conversation will turn to at some point in the near future is an emphasis on those elements: a new version of a shock lance that's never been seen before, a new animal that does something weird, new gameplay elements that haven't been seen before which will make a player curse and laugh at the same time...and in equal measure with the attention that re-vamped combat is currently receiving.
Thanks for listening and reading.
I just want to add that I completely disagree with this notion. If you want easier combat, just lower the difficulty. That is it.
If you leave in those cheesy tactics, many people feel like they should use them. They are fun. For a while. But then it becomes a boring chore. It essentially removes element of a game, and instead add something you have to do every time, just to render one part of the game pointless.
Pawns getting hurt and scarred in different (weird, funny, etc.) ways is part of the game. Losing is part of the game. If you want to play the game in a different fashion (render combat pointless) just mod it out. Completed game should have all of its elements meaningful.
That's not really my point...the difficulty of combat is kind of irrelevant to me, in the context of this game.
My secondary point (and a distant second) is that "cheese"
can have a place in this game, IMO...where it categorically doesn't in a game that absolutely requires razor-sharp balance (a competitive RTS like COH2). Many experienced players already forgo those methods, and there's absolutely nothing compelling them to use them. I'm an experienced player, and in some games I use them, sometimes I don't. I don't feel guilty in the least when I do. It entirely depends on my mood, and what I want my game experience to be.
My
real point is that I feel that the focus on combat is somewhat dominating the stage, and that there's far less discussion and emphasis at the moment of other gameplay elements which
make the combat worthwhile in the first place.
That's all.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 02:43:01 AM
The term "prosthetic" has a bit of a game mechanics meaning too, though. It denotes a certain tech level of artificial parts. Prosthetic -> Bionic -> Archotech. Hence the choice of prosthetic. It makes all the parts of each tier group together nicely on lists.
Point taken on all counts, and I thought it was exactly that: an attempt to normalize categories. I've just never heard hearts referred to as prosthetic, before - only as "artificial". I thought it worth mentioning.
This is friggin hilarious to watch tho.
I just beat a siege while half my dudes were killing the other half.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Teleblaster I know what you mean about some "unbalanced" strategies being fun. This is valid in a SP game, for sure.
Some strats are worse than others this way. E.g. killboxes were never that bad; it's still kind of interesting to build and maintain something like that. But door-cheesing a thrumbo, or building a single door in a field with a roof so raiders attack it and get crushed really doesn't seem as fun, it seems meaningless.
DF really pushes the "unbalanced and it's fun" angle. E.g. a built-up dwarf fort is nearly invincible, it really only gets destroyed if the player does something destabilizing out of boredom, or if some imba "building destroyer"-tagged mega-creature attacks and murders every dwarf in one swipe.
I think there should be room to do goofy weird crazy things, but it shouldn't and cannot be "extreme mode". It's really several different games using the same mechanics.
Peaceful is for building and the joy of creating.
Medium-ish is for playing around with challenges and telling stories.
Extreme mode really is for playing the optimization game. There is no room for anything non-optimal; there cannot be in a mode designed to push the player's optimization ability.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 03:36:35 AM
It'd be really useful from my point of view to hear just more straight up play stories. A lot of this discussion seems to resolve around people criticizing changes based on their guesses about what my expectations or intent was for those changes. It's just not that productive, and I don't have time to explain every detail of every experiment I'm running, every plan we've got backlogged, and so on.
That is totally understandable and even reasonable, however there is a problem with this: Rimworld is a strategy and tactics game, so coming up with strategies is a huge part of the game. And using tactics to implement those strategies is a huge part of the game. And having those strategies thwarted and making stuff up on the fly is a huge - and hugely dangerous - part of a game where you don't have decent strategies and you don't implement them with solid tactics. You can't come up with strategies without theorycrafting, and you can't implement a strategy you don't have. If someone can't think of a good strategy, they're more likely to complain about it than go into a double-digit hours game knowing that they're going to get their asses handed to them at some point.
I may be in a fairly unique position of being a player who knows most of the mechanics of the game, but has no real good strategies as I've not played as much as most forum goers. I've played maybe a dozen games total, and each and every one of them* ended the same way: Raiders who were far better equipped than anything I'd seen before came in and wiped me out, usually in open combat and I'm not sure what I could have done (outside of being better prepared) to stop it.
My latest run (and the only run I've done on 1.0 so far) I had a nice base between 5 mountains. I had walled off 3 of the entrances and set up turrets on the 4th and 5th, and traps. The last guys to attack were like 4 tribals with bows and we took them out no problem. Then bandits showed up, about 8-10 of them vs my 9-person colony. 3 of their guys had grenades - 2 frag and 1 EMP. The EMP guy took out one turret and the other (with 2 of my guys hiding behind the sand bags) went to a frag grenade. At that point all that was stopping them was 3 of my shooters with brand new LMGs I'd just built, and those shooters had killed - up to this point - only 1 or 2 of their guys. I concentrated fire on the fraggers and got them before they killed anybody else, then turned to the shooters, and right when I thought maybe it'd be okay to pull out the melee guys to mop them up the bandits decided to run.
In addition to the two who died to the grenade (maybe grenades, I'm not sure) one more died in a hospital bed a bit later. This weeded my colony down to just 6 people and - assuming I have time to rebuild before the next attack - I don't see how they'll survive a similar assault. I won't speculate, though, as that's theorycrafting. :D
*Except that one crazy Randy run where a band of wild turkeys took me out right after a raid. They took me out by knocking down the door to the med bay where my only pawn still capable of walking was hiding with everybody else in hospital beds. They murdered him and then left because nobody was walking around anymore. And then a heat wave started and with the door open, everybody died of heat stroke.
I do agree with 5th horseman, you're going to theorycraft a lot no matter what, and sometimes that isn't bad if the reasoning is sound. For instance, I know from experience that changes to the LRMS, both increased frequency and now with plasteel and uranium, would have no effect whatsoever on it's viability. I don't need playtesting to know this, I've got a few hundred hours of knowing why I don't use it, and they don't have much to do with frequency or mineral type.
So I built it anyways in my current game and wasn't disappointed when none of the mineral scans were worth pursuing.
Same with caravans, I didn't need to play this update much to know that raid caravans and many events are still just too risky. I only managed to get the A.I. component for the ship because it was 11 grizzly bears so I just sent a single dude with bionic legs to swipe it and run his ass off.
The reason 2+ man caravans are too risky is that you just can't split your fort, so many things can go wrong. If your caravan fails you risk losing enough colonists to lose the game outright. If you get raided with most of your colony gone, the same. And usually if you're on mission that requires more than one guy, you need to bring 12, which just can't be done.
Obviously context is everything and it's entirely possible that I'd agree with your risk assignment regarding LRMS/Caravans in general if I were to look at your colony's situation at any given time but my experience with the LRMS is still really positive.
Especially when playing Cass there's a distinct rhythm to major threats. Randy not so much but.. that's part of the reason I don't particularly like him.
So long as it's not winter and you haven't set up in a ridiculously mountainous region(or at least have good access to roads) most caravans are only a few days round trip and can easily slot into the time between major events back home. The most expensive part of LRMS scanner sites is typically the upkeep of the pack animals as you typically need a lot of them to grab everything. Fewer animals work just fine however, you'll just be leaving some resources behind.
It's also worth pointing out that you can always shore up your defenses before sending out caravans. If you couldn't have handled the last raid with 1-2 fewer people then you're really riding the razor's edge when it comes to defense.
Often the risk can be as small as 1 pawn with mediocre skills and a few pack animals, for 3-5 days, to get ~450 plasteel. Often that's worthwhile in my games. By and large the things those pawns would otherwise be doing are less profitable.
A fear of critical failure preventing you from obtaining resources which themselves can be used to prevent critical failure is quite a conservative approach.
Greed is sometimes good ;)
Story about a mechanoid drop pod raid, 1st of Decembary, 5502, Day 160, Cassandra Extreme, Naked Brutality, A Rimworld Whose Name We Never Looked Up, The Rim, Galaxy, Milky Way, Universe.
8 lancers and 3 scythers dropped into the base (lovingly (at least 3 times a night) called home by 11 colonists) right next to the autocannon, which was quickly destroyed. The autocannon did not drop any materials upon exploding. The entire structure was vaporised. This was unusual, but I am only a humble colonist, who does not draw conclusions nor theorise about such things.
The lancer variant of mechanoodle have a weapon called a "charge lance". It's massive armour penetration and damage meant that fighting against it was a complete lottery, and 100% armour was only slightly better than being nude. It was so much fun to fight that we now call it the "casino lance". Thankfully, our extremely skilled very neurotic too smart gourmand intellectual tactician positioned all of us behind cover, then waited until the fight was over. This gallant inaction resulted in no deaths on our side, thanks to the RNG gods. Nothing else could have saved us today. We played optimally.
I hope you enjoy this rimworld story as much as I enjoyed telling it.
I don't think cheese is bad. I consider "look at how much smarter I am by going back and forth between doors for 30 hours" a fun part of the game, whereas I enjoy the storytelling and social aspects a lot less.
Someone who enjoys the storytelling and social aspects a lot more might enjoy cheese because it makes combat easier and allows them to focus more on the parts of the game they do enjoy.
There's a lot of talk about nerfing certain strategies to encourage more varied play, but in terms of pawn to pawn combat I've felt somewhat limited since previous cheese tactics don't work. I had to savescum considerably to try out new strategies but all I found was that if you fight "fair" in RimWorld you are going to end up losing.
Almost 5505. 2 cents about multiple groupped raids(like 3-group sappers, or mech drop across entire map) - very annoying and boring to deal. Issue orders at each flank, watch few seconds, pause and again new orders at every flank just to not miss something weird like doomsday/tripple rocket.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 04:07:03 AM
Teleblaster I know what you mean about some "unbalanced" strategies being fun. This is valid in a SP game, for sure.
Some strats are worse than others this way. E.g. killboxes were never that bad; it's still kind of interesting to build and maintain something like that. But door-cheesing a thrumbo, or building a single door in a field with a roof so raiders attack it and get crushed really doesn't seem as fun, it seems meaningless.
DF really pushes the "unbalanced and it's fun" angle. E.g. a built-up dwarf fort is nearly invincible, it really only gets destroyed if the player does something destabilizing out of boredom, or if some imba "building destroyer"-tagged mega-creature attacks and murders every dwarf in one swipe.
I think there should be room to do goofy weird crazy things, but it shouldn't and cannot be "extreme mode". It's really several different games using the same mechanics.
Peaceful is for building and the joy of creating.
Medium-ish is for playing around with challenges and telling stories.
Extreme mode really is for playing the optimization game. There is no room for anything non-optimal; there cannot be in a mode designed to push the player's optimization ability.
Thanks for taking the time to directly address those issues, and why optimization from a vantage point of "most-difficult-to-least-difficult" game experiences
has to occur.
In closing, though: on *any* skill level/storyteller combination, I'm really,
really okay with the idea of putting in 400 hours on a single colony, getting it running like clockwork, and having it getting wiped off the map by a single Antigrainalope. Should one ever exist, of course.
Started a naked brutality scenario on medium, first few days were going well and got myself pretty situated.
I didn't have any obvious places to build defenses so I put a shelf outside behind a building wall - my plan was to attack with the bow around the corner and then switch to a club when they got close. I put two deadfall traps around the edge too, and was pretty happy with this setup.
Then a racooon went mad and I proceeded to run around in a circle around my fortification, only to discover that the racoon can't trigger the deadfall traps. I then ran inside and waited for the racoon to pass out. This was before the door hp change, so not sure if it would work now (he put about 3 hits on the door before giving up).
I sometimes wonder if my reporting is causing serious problems with the update of the rimworld.
I watch the broadcast today. Many of the streamers that have easily spacecrafted on the B18 are now wandering in early games.
But the patch content is focused on preventing cheese strategy. And concentrate on the plate armor that nobody uses. On the forum, people continue to inject usefulness about armor, but broadcasters do not use anyone. There is not enough resources and time in real play. Temperature control may not be available.
Developers want to make and use weapons and equipment, but most people get weapon and cloths from enemy. Restricted recruitment conditions make it difficult to obtain elite(The figure for making plate armor is craft 8 ) production staff. And there is not enough time and resources to make it. Why they do not have resources and time is because they can not progress to the mid-level, and good weapon, good armor is needed to get to the middle. It is a contradiction.
The same is true for the World Map. World map is risk. Most people I see broadcast do not start on the road. The river starts. They like to start in the mountains or hill. The surrounding area is surrounded by many hills. It only takes a couple of days to get to the nearest event, so the risk increases, and when they experience the risk, they give up next time. I have never seen them refugee quests. No matter how clear or less the threat is, the risks do not outweigh the non-progressing world map events.
The patches are based on the theory of temperate forests, but the actual play varies from ice sheet to desert. Also, there are many villages near only base is pirates or tribes.
Here in the forum people and I seem to play the best. Easily commerce, do events in a matter of days, minimize risks, but what you feel while watching the broadcasts is that the balance of the game is so difficult that everyone else is still dead in food poisoning with raid.
My posting is to prevent the weakening of the physical strength of the door, to clarify the events of the world map and to increase the profit. It is also said to weaken the centipede's strength. Because I watched the broadcast destroyed the world.
I feel that the game patch content is spaced from the actual game. So, you have to check the broadcast for a while.
For reference, some Rim World Streamers have a huge amount of play time. They are skilled rimworld gamers. Even such people are not doing well.
In this way, Rim World will be a very difficult and difficult game.
Glitch:
When rescuing an incap refugee, if one of the colonists decides to GTFO'd while the other is carrying the refugee to the safety, the refugee is "lost" but the person rescuing them still joins the refugee.
Also, if possible to make the whole "rescue refugee and GTFO'd ASAP" tactic, let us choose the method to leave. It appears to me the rescue randomly choose the direction in which to leave the map, very frustrating if said direction is filled with ambushing raiders.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 03:36:35 AM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 04, 2018, 03:03:41 AM
...
Please, please, just tell me your experiences and your suggestions for changes to make - but criticizing my thought process is meaningless because you don't know what my thought process is and it's not practical for me to constantly update everyone on it. To assume my thought process and then criticize that assumed entity is just yelling at clouds.
I'd like to get this thread back on track and end the side discussions. Please make posts that are directly experience based, not assuming others' thought processes, and not responding to arguments with arguments. Other posts may be deleted.
I do want to reaffirm that overall this thread is very useful. Thanks to all those who participate, especially writing nice play stories. The process continues to run well.
Haha, your patience is admirable with people that just love to argue or complain, and repetitively at that. I have never seen a game dev spend even half as much time responding to individuals and take all of the input into account like this, Thanks and keep on keepin on!
Quick play report:
Started an extreme Phoebe game with the 3 colonist start. After a season I got a destroy outpost mission and decided to go for it. I sent all three colonists, and picked up a good autopistol on the way from a friendly town. There were 5 enemies and I thought that I could do if I just managed to kill three enemies and made the remaining two flee. Except that the last two kept fighting and my already wounded colonists just could not handle any more fighting. I did not make any major mistakes during the battle, but the AI did make some poor decisions.
Quote- Make doors close more slowly (wood/steel at 200 ticks for example), allowing all but the slowest weapons shots in the interim. Leave opening speed the same so it doesn't bleed base efficiency. Maybe autodoors can be faster, giving a little boost to using them.
Late to the party (my work week doesn't leave time to play) but I'd ask that if you're considering solutions like this one, please keep in mind that door closing speed is important not only for defenses, but for heat transfer. I already use an air-lock and double-thick walls for my freezer, but even with that, it's still noticeably cooler in my kitchen and butchery areas than the rest of the colony, and door heat transfer is the only likely cause of this. Making the doors close slower will have an (adverse) effect on freezer usage that punishes people who don't even use cheesy strats.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 04:07:03 AM
Peaceful is for building and the joy of creating.
Medium-ish is for playing around with challenges and telling stories.
Extreme mode really is for playing the optimization game. There is no room for anything non-optimal; there cannot be in a mode designed to push the player's optimization ability.
I think this is fun. I'll try my best to tell my story on this. I usually play on Rough or Intense. Rough if I want a challenge while playing something sub-optimal. E.g. rule: max 4 colonists. Intense is my go-to difficulty if playing a relaxing game, while not constricting myself by artificial rules to make it harder or disabling/not using mods that make the game easier. I also play on intense if I want a difficult challenge when I try sub-optimal things. Extreme I play when I want a real challenge where I have to optimize. I try to avoid using cheese or mods that make the game significantly easier in this case, just because the whole reason I play extreme is for the challenge.
And I really think extreme should not be the "goal" of players to beat, rather intense should be. It should be the merciless evil difficulty that's unfair and you have to be unfair and CHEESY to beat it.
I love to compare it to Starcraft 2 in design. When playing versus AI there is many difficulties. "Insane" is the highest and the AI plays about as good as the average player. But there is three higher difficulties only available in custom games: Cheater. The AI literally cheats. It gets resources and has vision where it shouldn't. The way to beat this difficulty is to exploit the AI's weaknesses. Like harassment (destroying the workers of the AI). This is a normal tactic in PvP but vs. AI it's cheesy because the AI is very bad at dealing with it. And I think this is fine. The AI cheats, so you "cheat" (cheese) as well.
That being said, I still prefer the old difficulty terms. I've gotten used to the new ones now, but they just feel meaningless and non-descriptive compared to the old ones. There is also the novelty effect of the old terms that sets Rimworld apart from basically every other game.
When you visit a city sometimes the 'days of food' increase a little bit and when you leave it goes back to normal. It can be misleading.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:55 AM
That's not really my point...the difficulty of combat is kind of irrelevant to me, in the context of this game.
My secondary point (and a distant second) is that "cheese" can have a place in this game, IMO...where it categorically doesn't in a game that absolutely requires razor-sharp balance (a competitive RTS like COH2). Many experienced players already forgo those methods, and there's absolutely nothing compelling them to use them. I'm an experienced player, and in some games I use them, sometimes I don't. I don't feel guilty in the least when I do. It entirely depends on my mood, and what I want my game experience to be.
My real point is that I feel that the focus on combat is somewhat dominating the stage, and that there's far less discussion and emphasis at the moment of other gameplay elements which make the combat worthwhile in the first place.
That's all.
I have to echo this sentiment. It's very disheartening to see that pretty much all the balancing and feedback revolves around "difficulty = raids" and almost nothing else. I wouldn't mind the game being tough, but regardless of difficulty, I've never enjoyed raids. At best they're a temporary roadblock I have to get past to get back to the actual interesting parts of the game. The relative crudeness of the AI doesn't help, but I think my main problem with them is that they take me out of the story of the game too much. They don't happen because of or in the context of some ongoing narrative; they're just generic villains dropped from the sky (sometimes literally) to make my life more difficult.
(Long-term, I suspect my best option is just to write my own storyteller, which I might do. But despite looking through the class several times I still don't understand how they really work. One day.)
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 04, 2018, 04:16:32 AM
Rimworld is a strategy and tactics game, so coming up with strategies is a huge part of the game. And using tactics to implement those strategies is a huge part of the game.
I suppose this makes sense if you come into it from the perspective of a strategy game. And I'd be happy to talk about perceived flaws in it from that direction. But what sold me personally on RW was the idea of it as a storytelling engine. I feel like that idea has lost prominence in recent updates in favor of more and more raids, and I find myself apathetic towards the game as a result.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 04, 2018, 06:53:42 AM
Quote- Make doors close more slowly (wood/steel at 200 ticks for example), allowing all but the slowest weapons shots in the interim. Leave opening speed the same so it doesn't bleed base efficiency. Maybe autodoors can be faster, giving a little boost to using them.
Late to the party (my work week doesn't leave time to play) but I'd ask that if you're considering solutions like this one, please keep in mind that door closing speed is important not only for defenses, but for heat transfer. I already use an air-lock and double-thick walls for my freezer, but even with that, it's still noticeably cooler in my kitchen and butchery areas than the rest of the colony, and door heat transfer is the only likely cause of this. Making the doors close slower will have an (adverse) effect on freezer usage that punishes people who don't even use cheesy strats.
It's a good point, the good thing is that there's another knob to turn that can easily nullify that effect. I can just reduce the speed of heat transfer through open doors in exact inverse proportion to the increase in door open time.
Quote from: jamaicancastle on July 04, 2018, 07:39:37 AM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 04, 2018, 03:39:55 AM
That's not really my point...the difficulty of combat is kind of irrelevant to me, in the context of this game.
My secondary point (and a distant second) is that "cheese" can have a place in this game, IMO...where it categorically doesn't in a game that absolutely requires razor-sharp balance (a competitive RTS like COH2). Many experienced players already forgo those methods, and there's absolutely nothing compelling them to use them. I'm an experienced player, and in some games I use them, sometimes I don't. I don't feel guilty in the least when I do. It entirely depends on my mood, and what I want my game experience to be.
My real point is that I feel that the focus on combat is somewhat dominating the stage, and that there's far less discussion and emphasis at the moment of other gameplay elements which make the combat worthwhile in the first place.
That's all.
I have to echo this sentiment. It's very disheartening to see that pretty much all the balancing and feedback revolves around "difficulty = raids" and almost nothing else. I wouldn't mind the game being tough, but regardless of difficulty, I've never enjoyed raids. At best they're a temporary roadblock I have to get past to get back to the actual interesting parts of the game. The relative crudeness of the AI doesn't help, but I think my main problem with them is that they take me out of the story of the game too much. They don't happen because of or in the context of some ongoing narrative; they're just generic villains dropped from the sky (sometimes literally) to make my life more difficult.
(Long-term, I suspect my best option is just to write my own storyteller, which I might do. But despite looking through the class several times I still don't understand how they really work. One day.)
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 04, 2018, 04:16:32 AM
Rimworld is a strategy and tactics game, so coming up with strategies is a huge part of the game. And using tactics to implement those strategies is a huge part of the game.
I suppose this makes sense if you come into it from the perspective of a strategy game. And I'd be happy to talk about perceived flaws in it from that direction. But what sold me personally on RW was the idea of it as a storytelling engine. I feel like that idea has lost prominence in recent updates in favor of more and more raids, and I find myself apathetic towards the game as a result.
I agree; I've been specifically working to try to reduce the centralness of the raids, by adding some challenges and opportunities in other areas and dialing down the raids to compensate. Just so everyone knows, raids have a lot less pawns than they used to, and the game may move further in this direction. We just end up talking about raids a lot because they are somewhat of a focal point.
I just recalled a situation from Sunday (i.e. a few updates back, I think .1951). I started Rich Explorer scenario and got a fox Horatio as a starting pet. Because my starting colonist (and all subsequent newcomers) didn't have enough Animal skill (fox needs 6 IIRC), Horatio eventually untamed itself back into the wilderness and I was sad. Wouldn't it make sense to limit the random starting pet to only those animals you can actually keep? How could Horatio become my pet if I don't have enough skill to handle it in the first place?
Eh, cheesy tactic, hooking up four heaters to the ancient danger building, then letting a useless colonist and potentially hostile sleepers turn to toast and take the loot. Even if you can't do that, just putting a few wooden walls inside the sleeper chamber will usually start a pawn killing fire, since they tend to set it on fire, thereby ether killing themselves from heat or the flames. I have not tried it on a mechanoid yet, but it has worked against humans. I am thinking of surrounding a future colony with a "firewall", basically, a hull chamber that is maintained at high temperatures and has several layers of wall to force any attacker to remain in the heat for a while. Or maybe build flood chambers with vents that can release heat into various divided sections of such a defense.
I might be reaching into territory that isn't related to 1.0 per say, but I think it might be relevant as I did not encounter a similar set of circumstances before. What happened was that my characters were somewhat battered from a few wildlife-related problems and food poisoning when a cold snap and a solar flare happened minutes from each other. My colony was rather spread out into several buildings around a mountain, which made a communal fire unhelpful. Temperatures decreased rapidly, and had I not demolished the chicken house and a few other buildings to make dozens of campfires, the colony would have suffered casualties, and even with that, it was a very close shave. Thing is, days before, a flash storm trashed much of my nearby forest, and my injured and sick characters were in no position to slowly walk any distance in -20 degrees. I survived the experience, but the thing is, it was played on a low difficulty to test colony construction in relative peace, and I am not sure a less experienced would have survived. I really enjoyed dealing with the situation, as I like these sort of challenges, but I have to question if a cold snap and a solar flare should happen in low difficulty minutes from one another.
Now that food poisoning is much stronger and happens due to poor kitchen cleaning, it is somewhat distracting to have to manually tell someone to specifically clean the kitchen every few minutes. I prefer not to have cleaning high on my general priorities because my home area tends to be quite large. If I could have a character specifically assigned to clean just one area, it would simplify the situation.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 07:42:02 AM
I agree; I've been specifically working to try to reduce the centralness of the raids, by adding some challenges and opportunities in other areas and dialing down the raids to compensate. Just so everyone knows, raids have a lot less pawns than they used to, and the game may move further in this direction. We just end up talking about raids a lot because they are somewhat of a focal point.
Noticed and appreciated. In A17 I had a rather wealthy colony and I kept getting attacked by massive raids. Like 50+ tribals. That was really tedious to play against. Not necessarily difficult, just tedious, so much dead bodies, items on the ground and just the shear mass of pawns on the map.
Not sure if others have this minor issue, but I deal with it a lot so it's bugging me.
Can the drop weapon option be moved into ui icon button, like near the draft and fire at will toggle? Or maybe decrease the right click box to the pawns chest or something? I'm clicking away from their bodies such as on a door, and above their heads tho the box still pops up when I simply just want them to move.
I have had some repeated early game combat action I wanted to talk about. Armor has definitely become more essential. The problem is that basic armor is a bit difficult to come by before the point where you have had a few raids already. On crash landed, you get some but making more is a way off. On tribal you have none except masks. It might be useful at this point to make metal masks or integrate something like the grass armor from tribal essentials. For other starts, it becomes a race to plate armor research like we used to race for turrets.
New update. Various changes.
Note that the changelog is in reverse chronological order if some changes seem contradictory.
---
Remove the "they learned your trap locations" mechanics since nobody ever noticed them anyway. Reworked them to "they're smart, they can avoid your turrets and some of your traps".
Refactor FactionTacticalMemory and changed remember chance from 20% to 100%.
Adjust storyteller descriptions.
Caravan.Resting -> NightResting to make its meaning clear.
beCarriedByCaravanIfSick now defaults to true
Sick caravan members now rest in the best available bed when the caravan is not moving. Sick caravan members can now be carried by other pawns.
Tech level research penalty maxes at industrial level, this makes final research projects a lot easier. Rebalanced research projects. Removed Bridges research project.
Rearrange research and remove some dependencies. Adjusted some research prices. Properly format research XML.
Adjust difficulties descriptions.
Recolor berries object to have a more generalized purple color.
Fix berry bush positioning in cell.
Made a bunch of internal classes public.
Tending interval now depends on how many doctors there are in the caravan. Caravan members needing immediate treatment are now treated first.
Made sure that all site parts can always generate at least 1 enemy.
Caravan pawns no longer use JoyKinds they're bored of.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 04, 2018, 08:50:43 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 07:42:02 AM
I agree; I've been specifically working to try to reduce the centralness of the raids, by adding some challenges and opportunities in other areas and dialing down the raids to compensate. Just so everyone knows, raids have a lot less pawns than they used to, and the game may move further in this direction. We just end up talking about raids a lot because they are somewhat of a focal point.
Noticed and appreciated. In A17 I had a rather wealthy colony and I kept getting attacked by massive raids. Like 50+ tribals. That was really tedious to play against. Not necessarily difficult, just tedious, so much dead bodies, items on the ground and just the shear mass of pawns on the map.
I agree. it's more tedious with raids for the clean up, repair on higher raids. When I can spend days just cleaning up the bodies, clothes are now useless. so the only real thing is weapons and random items, it doesn't really feel useful. don't forget the mood debuffs.
What would be nice would be scavengers... a group of pawns whoms sole reason in the game is to come in and remove the bodies. Historically I believe there was groups of armies around to take the dead home, and scavenge.
Thank you Tynan.
About killboxes: Last week I posted that walls and killboxes were pretty much useless. After playing some more I reverted back to building them. They still solve a lot of problems for you.
- normal raids
- wild animals and manhunter packs
- mechanoid raids
- sieges, they decide to attack your colony after taking just a little damage from mortars or long range rifles.
The only thing is that you have to prepare for other threats as well, being sappers and drop pods. I keep more space between the walls and the buildings and build more defensive lines throughout my base. I have never used much turrets, because I like my pawns to do the damage. So I haven't tried the auto-cannons yet. In my next base I will use more space between my buildings to make firing lanes for the auto-cannons.
In my last run I've had this insane sapper raid. Five guys with doomsday rocket launchers walked into my base, 8 guys with frag grenades and then some. I was sure it was all over, but thanks to well placed defenses and some intense melee combat I managed to limit the damage. Three brawlers with good armour, shield belts and plasteel longswords cut them down really fast. None of the doomsday rocket launchers had managed to fire a shot, so I had 5 of them laying around. The next tribal raid was over with just one shot: 24 dead 12 downed.
So I'd say that walls and killboxes are still pretty strong, but you can't solely rely on them anymore and have to be much more creative in setting up your defenses. Which is a good thing.
BTW We should have mechanoid melee sapper raids. A bunch of scythers rushing through a gap in the wall would be my ultimate nightmare.
Edit, forgot to mention: In the screenshot, if you look closely you can see the centre pillar of the bedroom buildings is actually a door, which I usually forbid. But in close combat they are useful to make your escape or relocate quickly to better firing positions. I also use a Borg-like base structure of 17x17 blocks to create firing lanes and multiple cover positions for my pawns. This worked out pretty well for me.
Edit 2: About cocoa, as you can see I've tried a rather large cocoa plantation, but found the profits are rather lackluster compared to the labour. I think planting potatoes or corn is more profitable. It's nice to have some cocoa for your own consumption, but for trade it doesn't seem worthwhile.
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When I first played this game and finally thought I was good enough to do extreme since my brain loves optimization I did research on youtube. Someone spawned in a max level raid on their trap maze with endless turrets at the end with a kill box in a mountain. Basically put it in my head that wow this game isn't possible on this difficulty without that strategy. So I got discouraged and deleted my playthrough on a small hill map thinking I was 100% doomed.
So I can understand trying to weaken these cheesy tactics so the first research people do doesn't define their "only" game play experience. It took me like 100 hours later of gameplay to realize this was a lie and unfun experience compared to trading shots in bunkered doors. I tried no wall off combat but that was micromanagement to the extreme. It felt like having to play chess where each player could move 5 pieces at a time, forcing me to think way too much just for 1 battle.
My favorite method is still bunkered doors. Only thing that has changed is I made the layers thicker and micromanage a huge amount more to give myself the same door strength I am use to having just microing to close them all.
Im starting up a new game today since that experience started to feel really stale for me and going to go for mini kill box rooms since personally I want to make a 100% optimized base but I don't want to be required to move every pawn every few seconds to live.
Wall bunkers where cool to me hide a few shooters behind the door and a shield belt walks out and opens it for them. Move 1 pawn into line of sight to engage a small strike force and risk everyone in that sight dying, nothing was too safe about it. Sure you can cheese manhunter packs/thrumbros with it but eh it felt fun still.
I really really want to start a game on extreme and attempt the strategy you envision as none cheesy. I have no clue what that is anymore.
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 09:09:35 AM
Sick caravan members now rest in the best available bed when the caravan is not moving. Sick caravan members can now be carried by other pawns.
Does that second part mean that during the "rescue a pawn" world map event your return speed will not be super slow due to the badly injured pawn you rescued, or is this more just in regards to actual sickness? Or is it strictly a pawn can carry another pawn that can not move at all?
This is a problem that has always existed and it is not specific to v1.0. Through the entire forum, I had many times addressed the lack of AI recognition of the base/rooms.
(https://i.imgur.com/WScjfmW.png)
My base, currently looks like the number 6 on a digital calculator, which is a square with a side sticking higher.
Ayano, Sunao and Paulo are attacking a wall outside my base. Also Pleixoto is attacking a "Firing Wall" I built when I was facing a Crashed Ship Part.
The lack of AI "reading" immensely help the player to perform "Divide & Conquer" by just building random walls throughout the whole map... since the AI cannot distinguish which is a player's REAL base versus random walls.
Players like me who had been playing on 400x400 maps and multiple colonies know that creating "fake" buildings mitigates a raid's threat level.
In many posts, I addressed the AI lack to recognize "Inside" from "Outside", specially when Pathing selection, so pawns in harsh biomes like Ice Sheet, should prioritize pathing within the base rather than short-cutting from the outside, exposing themselves to all sorts of threats...
I would really like to see an AI improvement so this that I am experiencing now stops happening. I don't know how much viable it could be, but my only suggestion as of now would be to create a "Sound recognition" system in which pawns can react to "shots fired" and turn towards the direction from where the sound comes. Pretty much like The Walking Dead.
In this current raid, half the enemies are doing "whatever they want but nothing that helps them". Players in MMORPGs PvP games do this as well by the way. Their force enweakens as they split nonsensically. The benefit for enemy AI would be that "reading" the inside could help them direct their pathing to the player's base too. So it's not just one sided for the player pawns when not raided.
Wow, I love new difficulty descriptions!
These texts will teach players about difficulty properly.
Being descriptive is good, because I thought like "Truly skilled Rimworld players can always survive even in the hardest difficulty!" until now. :D
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 09:09:35 AM
Sick caravan members now rest in the best available bed when the caravan is not moving.
Regarding using bedrolls in caravans, seems like it does not take into account bedroll comfort buff (along with comfort thoughts) yet, which would be nice.
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I see a lot of mention of door cheese and thrumbos, they're easy enough to kite (Last I recall, haven't tried in 1.0). But with door popping, I think it would be reasonable that if an animal was shot and wounded it should tear that door down by any means, as it is the only idea of where the attack came from.
Splitting up attacks between two colonists to cause confusion and "kite" the animal around seems realistic and reasonable to me. Perhaps just make a chance that animals won't switch targets, and instead enter a rage and just want to kill a specific target in a berserk revenge, no matter what anyone else does to intervene. This would include busting a door down if it sees the target pawn go through it. In real life a threatened animal can be unpredictable, and the game should reflect that. This would also make manhunter packs less routine.
Sorry if this is off topic, I just saw the discussion and have always thought animal AI was much too predictable.
Is it possible for you to reverse, or add a toggle for new construction vs repair. Before the change I would have been for it. In practice though, it means I have to find every thing damaged and the micro my constructor to fix it while they try to wander off and build things. It is a bit like the practice of trying to deconstruct ruin floors.
Up until I hop in the ship, I always have something to construct. My constructor rarely does any other task. Which means that they would never get around to repairing things.
I just noticed that a colonist, Vas, tried to romance another colonist, Aimi. I looked into Aimi's Social tab, and noticed this tidbit that made me chuckle:
"Vas tried to attract Vas by complimenting his friends. Aimi gave a minimal response."
However, in Vas' Needs tab, it shows that he was rebuffed by Aimi. This leads me to believe that the first sentence in the quote should have Aimi's name instead of the second Vas.
I will hopefully be able to provide more feedback in the future from my playthrough. Thank you Tynan for all of these patches, and all the care you've put into the game. This is my favorite game to play and watch. :)
Edit: I checked later and it seemed to fix itself. Whoops.
Is healroot supposed to be immune to the cold? Currently a coldsnap in my game and all plants died (Boreal Forest) but healroot is unaffected. If it's a bug, good that I caught it. If not... uhm, yay I won't die to infections?
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 09:09:35 AM
Refactor FactionTacticalMemory and changed remember chance from 20% to 100%.
Don't know if it's possible, but it would be nice to have it as min 20% with scaling factor of how many enemies survived (fled) raid, with 5-6 giving 100%, that would make it more worth to pursue/kill/capture fleeing raiders (for people that are not running hat and organ factories).
For no i just let them run away since there is no downside of that and i prefer to tend my pawns quick to avoid infections.
Same should be added when releasing prisoners - since it's easy way of farming relations - also without any reprecussions
After playing a bit on extreme mode, I have a lighthearted suggestion for the difficulty descriptor of Extreme that pretty accurately reflects how I felt about it.
Here it is:
"You will not survive. Seriously
though, you will die horribly.
This is not a challenge, this is
a warning."
Its nice to know that there will always be a mode that I can truly challenge and humble myself on, you and your team are doing great work Tynan.
Tynan, do you want us to start a new colony after each patch? Or continue playing our old colony? I've been starting a new one each patch to avoid carrying over bugs from the previous patch, but with the rate of patching I'm not even getting through a season before starting over.
"Removed bridges research."
Oh hey that would have been useful four hours ago when I spent an inordinate amount of time researching it because I live in a swamp with tribals.
Anyway, no new reports but this is something that I think must be remedied before release: making pekoe and smokeleaf joints.
Making smokeleaf is available at the drugs lab and making pekoe is available at the stove. Both are available at the crafting spot at very slow pacing. The issue with making both is that it takes an inordinate amount of time for basically one joint and one cup. Even if micro it by having a stockpile around the stove/drugslab and two workbenches for the latter, it still takes forever.
Not only that but even crafting them gives no XP whatsoever. Psychoid and smokeleaf are easy to grow in bulk but making them in bulk is a major pain. I can spend a quandrum having four pawns make them and they'll only repeat the process three days later because the crops are ready to be harvest.
I know you're against bulk crafting (for whatever reason) but surely you can give both the stove and the drug labs a craft bulk x 20 in one go? It's no real fun making them but players do it because they sell pretty well. At least making beer takes a lot more effort and there's something rewarding about making your own brewery. You need to make the barrels, make the wort and keep the temperature running. It's layers upon layers of systems working.
Basically, massively reduce the time effort to ROLL a joint and brew tea or just let us make them in bulk.
With regard to making raids less of a focal point, I agree. In 1.0 I had so much more fun going out and rescuing incapacitated refugees from who knows what. :)
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 04, 2018, 12:08:41 PM
Not only that but even crafting them gives no XP whatsoever. Psychoid and smokeleaf are easy to grow in bulk but making them in bulk is a major pain.
Smokeleaf Joints and Psychite Pekoe both generate
cooking experience. And incidentally their crafting speed scales with cooking skill.
Though it is true that both Pekoe and Joints are slower to craft than Flake or Yayo because they require more work and also because of how the high skill scaling works out. Not that crafting Pekoe is particularly efficient in the long term.
The only issue I have with this system is that you can inadvertently burn through a ridiculous amount of Wood if you're making Pekoe on a fueled stove since it requires 1 wood per object cooked. Almost wiped my tribe out in a desert heat wave because we'd burnt all the wood making tea and couldn't make passive coolers :P
My fault of course.
Edit: While I'm here - It's bizarrely hard to hunt Emus because any hunter that engages an Emu triggers revenge which itself triggers the "What should a colonist do when presented with an attacker" reaction which if set to Attack seemingly overwrites the hunting order.
Basically almost every encounter with an emu results in the hunter leaving an incapacitated emu or emu corpse out in a field somewhere and moving on to other targets or jobs. It's super weird :P
I'm not sure whether it is a new feature or a bug but the random death chance that you get (on enemy raiders(and animals)) when your colony becomes larger seems to apply as well on smaller colony's.
I'm currently a 2 strong colony that just passed the 2nd winter and have noticed that at least 6/10 raiders die without losing a vital body part or to low consciousness.
This makes it harder to increase the number of colonists.
I'm playing extreme Randy on a tundra map.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 04, 2018, 12:08:41 PM
"Removed bridges research."
Well for me that came in just handy. I am living next to a river and bridges were very low priority for me because I had only two colonists and other stuff is badly needed in research. So now I can build a bridge and research other stuff.
About the end-game sequence: fun, extreme.
I've just launched the ship, i've documented the 15 last days (https://imgur.com/a/3ymHvNF), 1.0.1953 (playthrough started 1.0.1936)
Visual summary:
(https://i.imgur.com/xPPIBfS.jpg)
So it was extreme, but this intense fight for survival in the last days is what justifies to bother for various quests for antigrain warheads, power beam and orbital bombardment targeter. Even uranium lumps are not to be neglected.
In a nutshell, 1.0 has added a mid game and an end game. We could also say a pre-early game if you choose the NB scenario.
I've not much to say since i think it was extreme, but balanced. I did the quests to get precious items, and bought what i could over the years, it turned out it was really useful.
Your army of bionic pawns with good armors will not be wasted. I think many pawns survived thanks to the new armor system, limbs were lost, they got bruises and deep injuries, but in the chaos only one died.
Raids were varied, challenges real, and i think if you go underprepared for the ship start-up, it can be brutal for the colony.
For comparison, B18 with a tribal start in tropical swamp, also cassandra extreme permadeath (https://imgur.com/a/wfAWF). Wealth was similar, mood was better in 1.0 (but i think i neglected the swampy base), ship sequence more interesting in 1.0, i had fewer deaths in B18 but early version of sappers was brutal in 1.0 and there was more drop pod raids (whereas almost inexistent in B18).
So far I have put in about 30 hours since the update and have quite a few bits of information I would like to share.
I have started two colonies, the first was extreme Randy Naked Brutality and that lasted about an hour. The only reason this even lasted an hour is I had a cave insect hive that was keeping me safe for the early days. Eventually an infection occurred and that was it. I really like the new scenario but it is brutal and I don't have a problem with that, good job.
My newer play through is on Randy hard and this one I have a lot to talk about. First and foremost I always played on either Cassandra or Randy Extreme and now I feel that it is too difficult to stay alive. On the topic of medical, I have noticed that fighting infections with Healroot does not seem to be cutting it. I'm using at least a 10+skill in medicine colonist with hospital beds/vitals monitor and usually the infection outdoes the healroot. I am unsure if this is by design, as in B18 I easily fought off infections with Healroot, but of course there were a HELL of a lot more infections in B18 than in 1.0. Also my medical people are nowhere near as diligent about treating people as they were before. After a raid I can go 2 days without people getting treated. They have no issues patching up prisoners on the spot, but seem to ignore each other unless it is really serious. Lighter wounds that are bleeding, but will go away natually seem to be ignored. I have my priorities set for my doctors as 1 for doctoring, 2 for patient, and like 4 for bed rest, but they seem to get in a hospital bed right away and ignore everyone else. I attached a screenshot of my priorities and if possible, I could attach a post-raid screenshot of the hospital. In B18 I never had this issue and doctors would take care of it right away.
I really do like the change of making traders not buying simple-lavish meals, and allowing for packaged survival meals to be purchased. This really has a huge change on my gameplay as back in B18 I just sold fine meals that were leftover and massively overproduced food without ever producing packaged meals. I like this simply because the packaged meals take a lot longer to make, and give far more experience. It's almost like specializing in what you need at the time instead of just throwing tons of one product out and I like that level of micromanagement and detail. I realize I could use bill limits to automate this for me, but I don't.
Next up is an issue I have had for a long time, since Alpha 16. I really dislike the battery system overloading or whatever it is called and blowing out huge holes in your base. Every playthrough I do now consists of going from wood fired generators to geothermal and never investing in batteries. I direct power everything just to skip that event entirely. I am unsure how to address this because logically it makes sense that this event would occur, and the only thing I can think of is some kind of breaker box system or circuit breakers as some mods have tackled this already. I can't really provide more input other than I just avoid them entirely, and this works very well for me, but feels wasteful.
One of the biggest complaints and issues for me is the lack of being able to repair anything. I can think of a few ways to balance this out somewhat but it really does bother me that my current colony, of 13-15 people, all have to have new power armor made every 30-50 days. I realize I could make flak items to substitute for power armor, but it is leaps better than flak at this point. I miss the mending mod but only want items from colonists repaired and not changing over dead mans apparel like mending does. Perhaps lowering the quality of the item being repaired by 1-2 levels once repaired would balance this out, aka masterwork down to good-excellent if repaired. I just lost my masterwork power armor pride and joy on my brawler, who I would not let her take it off until it actually fell apart off of her body, you could say I was attached. I even sent her out against a raid with it at 2.9% and yes, it did disintegrate in combat, but at least it did not go to waste. We could even have the repairing requirement take a long time, with some resource cost. Also I realize degrading quality is just delaying the inevitable but this is how I operate in real life, fix it until it is beyond repair and make use of what you have. To me this idea fits into this type of scenario very well being stranded on a planet without much.
Since I cannot think of anything more off the top of my head, the last change I really really like are the changes to workspeed in general. Research is way faster, construction is way faster, even making drugs is super fast. Plantwork has seen a lot of slowdown compared to before but I prefer that as growing was so difficult to level up without just telling a colonist to sow an area over and over and keep replacing everything. Clothing is the biggest and favorite change to me so far. My 20 crafter without any workspeed traits can produce a Thrumbofur button down shirt or pants in legit 2-3 seconds on 3x speed. Crafting was always so tedious before and now it feels very improved with how their skills affect the speed. Also, as I have noticed people pointing out before, Cocoa does seems pretty inferior. I like the recreational side of it, but its price is so low. Doing either drugs or Devilstrand seems far more lucrative. Also, big fan of metal tile having more use now, as I almost never made flooring out of it before.
Thanks again for such an amazing game. I came to this from Gnomoria and was heartbroken too see the developer had to give up the project. This game has far more detail on things like combat, but both games had a pretty high amount of micromanagement and made me really think and plan which draws me in a lot :D.
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Quote from: MikeLemmer on July 04, 2018, 11:58:58 AM
Tynan, do you want us to start a new colony after each patch? Or continue playing our old colony? I've been starting a new one each patch to avoid carrying over bugs from the previous patch, but with the rate of patching I'm not even getting through a season before starting over.
I've played a colony through 5 patches, just roll with it. The bugs are pretty minor, and a lot of balance issues only becoming apparent later in the game so you might be limiting your feedback by restarting :)
New blue color on berry bushes makes them much harder to see.
I've come across a pretty "cheesy" tactic while playing that I thought you might want to address. If you use the claim tool and claim the ruins and walls on the map, it confuses the enemy ai completely. They will walk right by your base to go hammer on a random wall. This is even more effective if you claim the insect's glow pods, now that the insects don't attack the colony when attacked by raiders.
(Loving the changes so far, thanks Tynan.)
Interestingly, the trainwreck continues. I think so many people have died so quickly and so consistently to every raid, the storytellers' long term/short term rampup are basically zero, so it's all wealth which is rapidcaly falling. Two more raids occur, the first about 5 centipedes and a few lancers. I blow all three doomsdays I have on them and wipe them out. Another drop pod occurs, this time with only a few lancers that I get to walk into the few remaining functional cannons I have.
Many colonists have negative mood even after catharsis, so I send them on caravan (one of them dies to a tribal with a shiv, they're pretty much all on death's door), maybe I can limp along to victory by playing peekaboo and letting other dudes fight each other ::) Not really, but you make a fort last to the ship and you can't not play it out.
A called caravan arrives, I gift them steel because I can't even use it to re-arm the cannons in time between murderous breaks.
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I have some more stuff... you guessed it - caravans!
What I've noticed is that every caravan member contributes to total carry weight (this includes prisoners). What is kinda weird tho, is that downed members also contribute to that limit.
You can end up with 8 man caravan, from which 1 colonist is not downed, 4 are downed colonists and 3 downed prisoners. Yet, this single dudes can carry as much as 8 people... :P I'd say that downed pawns should not only not contribute to carry weight, but they should take some (but not all their weight - that would be too brutal). Say, 10-15kg, thematically explaining it as them being dragged on the ground.
I think it could add a little more of we need to stay here until he can walk, which adds some story telling but also makes you consider if you want to drag downed people around. More dramatic choices to leave them behind, and so on.
Quote from: Perq on July 04, 2018, 01:48:13 PM
I have some more stuff... you guessed it - caravans!
What I've noticed is that every caravan member contributes to total carry weight (this includes prisoners). What is kinda weird tho, is that downed members also contribute to that limit.
You can end up with 8 man caravan, from which 1 colonist is not downed, 4 are downed colonists and 3 downed prisoners. Yet, this single dudes can carry as much as 8 people... :P I'd say that downed pawns should not only not contribute to carry weight, but they should take some (but not all their weight - that would be too brutal). Say, 10-15kg, thematically explaining it as them being dragged on the ground.
I think it could add a little more of we need to stay here until he can walk, which adds some story telling but also makes you consider if you want to drag downed people around. More dramatic choices to leave them behind, and so on.
I prefer it this way honestly. That way a character with the wimp trait can't suddenly stop the caravan from moving because he got a spot of food poisoning.
I need to throw my hat in with the people saying the incapacitated quests simply aren't worth it. I've yet to see one not guarded or bait for an ambush. A couple of examples. I got a quest for someone who happened to be the wife of a colonist. About a year and a half into Pheobe rough. The note said to expect a ring of turrets. I took three colonists planning to make a hole in the ring and get out. I was greeted by the ring and a incendiary mortar. It wouldn't have been a problem except she died of her wounds before I could get to her. Maybe if I brought more colonists I could have brought down the turrets in time but that would have left the colony woefully understaffed. (I had 8 colonists.)
The next example is a tribal start with Pheobe medium. Its about half a year in when I get a quest saying there might be danger. I'm doing ok so I figure I'd give it a try. I only have five colonists so I send the two I can spare. That evening I get a flash storm right next to my camp. It hits my fields in two spots and right next to my storage building. I had to write off the fields and focus on the storage building otherwise my whole camp would have gone up. (I was just starting to put up stone walls.) Then when the caravan arrives it turns out to be an ambush from the edge of the map. I think there were six tribals. I managed to get one away.
An unguarded pawn should be the rule, not the exception, early on. You've got to take enough food and medicine, which can leave your base vulnerable, for a pawn that might not be worth it. The ambushes and guards make that effort not worth it no matter how good the pawn is early game. The only time I try them now is when the pawn is somehow related to one of my colonists. And even then they might die before I can deal with the guards. Maybe make their wounds less severe?
It actually ends up being worse if you try and it's a relationship, although it's somewhat buggy. If you ignore the quest, you get -18 for failed to save them. If you try and fail, you get -18 for failing to save, and -20 for them dying, for two seasons, which is so bad you may as well execute/banish them. At least this is how it worked in early 1.0, not sure if that's changed.
A feedback about caravan - the manual rest button doesn't appear to actually force colonists to rest. It seems like there is a given period during the day when colonists on caravan will rest. However, what this results in is if your caravan 'desyncs' from this timer, you end up wasting a full day sitting around with pissed off tired pawns until night arrives. It also results in increased food expenditure.
It is a pity that in both movement and in other aspects it seems design direction is opting for more clunky control of pawns.
Just so people don't think I'm kidding, here's the last two days, approaching T-5days. I only built one crypto for the ship because I was lazy, now I know it was because I was optimistic ::)
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I'm probably not the first to suggest this, but could melee fighters please get an "attack at will" button, just like shooters have a "fire at will" button?
I love how melee is now actually useful and use melee ambushes to deal with long range shooting raiders, but If I turn my back on them for 5 seconds, I often find them just standing there next to a raider corpse while a valid next target is shooting at them from 4 squares away.
Some play stories now:
I'm playing on Randy Medium with a tribal start.
148 days in and with 18 colonists, I haven't built a single turret (haven't done that since I started playing late A15), and only 3/4th of my colony is walled off.
The large gap is defended with sandbags and wall pillars, which you can reach by walking along long pieces of wall on either sides with (plasteel) doors that can be used for ambushes.
My 3 attack rhinoceroses (and slowly breeding more) really come in handy.
There is a smaller gap where the river leaves my colony through a cave, which is booby trapped and leads to a defendable position within my base.
There's only been 1 sapper raid that I remember, which could be because of my lack of walls?
I didn't build turrets because I couldn't get much steel at first.
To my surprise, I noticed that I could survive well (with some save scumming to learn from my mistakes, I'll admit) and I love not having a killbox.
Then again, I haven't faced many mechanoids yet.
I also love how caravanning is now often worth it, getting you those rare items that were introduced in B18.
Because of this, I can give/grow my poor colonist Ophelia who Randy seems to hate a new leg, arm, ear and eye.
I also love that prosthetics are researchable.
Rescue mission were still too risky when my colony started (right after the build that made watermills bigger) and I haven't tried them since.
Tynan, I don't believe perfection is possible, but you're getting close. ;)
Several more raids, ran out of mortal shells and launchers, so dudes are just coming in at full force. At this point the fort is just completely overrun so I'm hiding out in the wilderness, everyone's addicted to luci, some tribals are picking off the last of the cannons and some spare dogs, buffalo has food poisoning, I think paine is catatonic.
Edit: this is hilarious. I'm surviving on some packaged survival meals from a previous siege ::)
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Short story:
Boreal forest, winter, 275², large hills, intense, Randy Random, Naked Brutality
So I had just gotten my second colonist when Randy decided to throw like 5 raids at me. This was incredibly annoying, but manageable since marsh slowed them down, they had no or little armor and the first raid gave me a pump shotgun. This with a greatbow allowed me to repell them with just Sandbags (no cheese) but I had to reload once, because they behaved very weirdly.
Instead of getting into cover they just bumrushed my colonists behind their sandbags, no idea why.
I've been attempting to start a game for quite some time today and I noticed the diversity in what is desirable is very lacking. Main things I look for when I pick a place to start is the following:
Neigbhors - I don't care if they are evil, high tech or tribes. I want to be able to raid/trade without traveling insanily far. Plus the story is more entertaining for me when I am not isolated.
Roads - Having a road nearby means my trade caravaning will be easier. Caravaning is still a thing I need pratice on so I try not to make this aspect harder for myself
Temperature - I want a full game experience so 20/60 or 30/60 is what I shoot for.
Rocks - Flat is pretty extreme on lack of resources. At the minimum I need small hills but prefer large hills.
All of these things are extremely easy to find but when you tell yourself I don't want to play on a temperate forest map then that number drops down to like 1%. Temperate forest is way to abundant. At the very least it would be cool if there were more colonies settling in tundra or desert area as well. I've looked at this at 100%, 50%, and 30%. It feels like 75% of the world is temperate forest (i know I am probably way off). If temperate forest was decreased just a little it would it to be easier to find diverse starts. Even if that 1% only increased to like 2% that doubles the options and the ease of finding a place to start.
Edit: Not to even mention rivers that fit this description. That is basically .01% rarity since 90% of rivers are on flat land and when they travel through mountains they seem to dive away from roads/civilization.
One of the pitfalls of designing by wealth/story feeling. With 2 days left on the ship and my fort almost comepletely destroyed, having fought off nearly a hundred tribals or 14 centipides in my prime..
this is what the game is sending at me xD I've actually got 3 psychic lances left, but I'm going to see if the caravan loafing around can deal with it.
Edit: Actually it's a siege, I'd better lance them O.O Also fun fact, all of them have sniper rifles. Weird
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So, more happenings in Deserton. Reminder: Cassandra Classic, Rough Difficulty, Extreme Desert w/ 30/60 Growing Period. No Refugees, Chased Refugees or Escape Pods.
This is probably a consequence of my artificially-low wealth and/or lack of turrets (recently crossed the 75K mark), but something like 1/2 of my steel reserves are from looting enemy siege camps and Crashed Ships. I've been using an Excellent Bolt Action Rifle (thank you, Bigvee, and your 15 crafting) to snipe one or two besiegers, which generally causes them to assault the colony. Lately, I've looted one of their mortars instead of deconstructing, and used that instead. As a sidenote, I've finally found a use for Shelves: storing mortar shells in the deadzone under my Wind Turbines.
Most of my Packaged Survival Meals also come from sieges. There's at least one per year, and each one comes with ~20 PSMs. While I do have the capacity to make PSMs, it doesn't seem worth it (although a more active trader colony would probably need a lot more.
Hyperweave and Synthread are still nowhere to be found: I don't think I've seen a single trader carrying exotic cloth, and I've never gotten a quest w/ a Synthread/Hyperweave reward. Admittedly, I don't have the Comms Console, so that might be the problem: IIRC, there's a Textile Trader that comes around if you have a Comms Console.
Powered Armor is certainly an improvement over Flak. I didn't use Plate Armor for long enough to test it all that much.
It would be VERY helpful to have a "GTFO" button on visitors and traders. At least they should be self-aware enough to run away if they arrive during a raid/manhunter pack. I just lost three tribal visitors to some manhunting polar bears(!) while my pawns were still putting on their armor (two have Flak, one has Power Armor). If we're going to be held responsible for what happens on our turf, then other factions should understand when we respectfully tell them to go away and come back later.
7 hours left. At this point all I can do is watch really. There's a siege going on, some scythers are running around everyone, and some tribals and pirates are killing each other.
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Quote from: Greep on July 04, 2018, 04:16:16 PM
7 hours left. At this point all I can do is watch really. There's a siege going on, some scythers are running around everyone, and some tribals and pirates are killing each other.
Total mayhem, hehe.
Hold the line people!
Holy shit. I actually made it. Scariest moment of the game: A high explosive mortar flies RIGHT OVER the ship's A.I. controller at five hours left.
Blastoff!
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Calling two traders from warring factions feels like a reliable exploit. I get minor penalties for the ones that die, but rescuing and releasing the downed ones brings the diplomacy rating back up, even paying for the call itself. Their pack animals get caught in the crossfire and I pick up good items for free. Last time, they had a literal firefight in my storehouse, but my firefoam popper took care of things. I lost some food, apparel, and mortar shells, but I gained more than that.
A single broken wall caused my entire storehouse to be categorized as "outside", so my items degraded a bit. This felt bad, but it doesn't really affect anything but wealth. Every time I see a stack of 75 wood with 66/100 hitpoints, I wonder what the effect on the game would be if it magically coalesced into 50 wood at 100 hp.
Quote from: Greep on July 04, 2018, 04:28:59 PM
Blastoff!
Well done!
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on July 04, 2018, 04:36:33 PM
Calling two traders from warring factions feels like a reliable exploit. I get minor penalties for the ones that die, but rescuing and releasing the downed ones brings the diplomacy rating back up, even paying for the call itself. Their pack animals get caught in the crossfire and I pick up good items for free. Last time, they had a literal firefight in my storehouse, but my firefoam popper took care of things. I lost some food, apparel, and mortar shells, but I gained more than that.
A single broken wall caused my entire storehouse to be categorized as "outside", so my items degraded a bit. This felt bad, but it doesn't really affect anything but wealth. Every time I see a stack of 75 wood with 66/100 hitpoints, I wonder what the effect on the game would be if it magically coalesced into 50 wood at 100 hp.
Quote from: Greep on July 04, 2018, 04:28:59 PM
Blastoff!
Well done!
:D It might need work, although I wouldn't call it reliable. I ended making sure the caravans did not fight each other on purpose when one time they decided to do their fight with grenades in my living room. You can see the carnage in one of my previous posts.
Also, here's the stats on the game since those are probably important.
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Hi, another quality of life suggestion regarding the new game storyteller selection:
I think the difficulty settings should be fixed in place and not jump up and down when you change the storyteller. The placing of the text feels a bit weird; I don't like Randy's warning being in a scrollable text-box rather than displayed somewhere else (perhaps at the bottom of the dialog, under permadeath mode?)
I like the changes to the mouseover explanations of difficulty settings, and medium/hard/extra hard instead of some challenge/rough/intense etc. is growing on me, although I probably still prefer the old ones for flavour - Randy Rough sounds better than Randy Hard.
Also, this may be a hangup from civ, but I think no technology should be further left than a technology from a previous era. For example, swap complex furniture and pemmican. Not really important, but you were rearranging the tech tree anyway so I thought I'd mention it. I like that the electricity things have been separated out so it's less confusing. Also, good to see military tech at the bottom like civ ;)
EDIT: also, I second the idea of prioritising cleaning a certain region above others, now food poisoning is a major concern (which I like, it makes cooking skill more important). I realise this might require a dwarf-fortress style prioritisation system, which probably isn't desirable, but maybe chefs could clean their area before they cook a meal?
Just noticed something simple to fix btw.
If you set a do until x recepie at the tailorbench, and you want to set up to unpause at a certain lower vaule... well you can't set the lower vaule, since the window in the center is too small ::)
This occurs on tailorbenches only due to the additional "Count other places options to max value" ;)
I usually keep this max-min value production to keep my armor stacks at a good healthy level. now i cant set it to like 20 max 10 min value.
See attached screenshot
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I just had an issue where I lost 2 colonists due to the caravans not merging properly. I had two instances of this. The first time both the caravans were healthy, and the second time one caravan was trying to rescue the other caravan through merging. Both times I was unable to merge the two caravans together despite them being on the same tile.
I just had an item stash quest that gave me an idea. Why can't we grab a downed pawn and run? I just did this with an item stash. The site said there was no danger but you better believe there was an ambush waiting. Since it was just a resurrection serum I was able to grab it and run with just a single shotgun wound to the shoulder.
Also for QOL: maybe the cross icon on the character portrait should be red for serious injuries, such as bleeding, or for life-threatening life conditions.
And more importantly (it annoyed me several times): when the room rating option is turned on (showing the quality of the room in a box), it should always be below any other window. For example, when mousing over 'Extreme break risk', I don't want to see the quality of the room that happens to be where the extreme break risk notification is.
I also had that same issue with the caravan merging thing.
On another topic, I feel like there has been a weird design choice regarding skill degradation. Skill progression should be like 50% slower on 2 flames and there should be no skill level regression at all BUT yes to in-level regression. There is no good rpg game that punishes character ( in this case pawn) progression. Givin a further analysis on the subject, I must say that there is no actual gain for stopping skill progression other that making the player feel like they are achieving something. Will we end up with gods? :no if skill progression is slowed down a notch as I said a few phrases earlier. And, let's be realistic, there is no much of a difference if you have a superpowerful character and you get him killed/ have an freaky accident anyways. The funny thing about this game is that it is so well designed already that skill-level degradation only stops the fun big time. We want to level up and find a little sense on all those hard days growing rice and making armors. Come on! legendary things are already out from the exploiting. There is no real wall to that tiny little suggestion. Is it a big deal? Yes it is. Why? because levels and getting better. Some would say : I want realism because of geniouses that can make a solar panel with scrap should eventually forget how to build a solar panel with scrap. Of course they forget SOME of the knowledge . But I'm sure that Einstein didn't forget high level ecuations on his last days of live, he had 20 intelligence and 30000 experience and he just lost those 29999 experience but never degradate to 19. Einstein was never a 19 intelligence guy. What I`m asking: Get rid of skill lvl degradation until skill lvl10 to no skill level degradation at all with:
Either settings option:
Skill degradation (degrades) level: on off
or A trait like this:
Slow learner: All the skills are raw with no flames but he doesn't get skill degradation
( I know there is a skill that slows degradation, but I'm pushing for the full stop on level regression and maintain only in-level skill degradation)
Disclaimer: This game rocks. Many of us want something like Mad skills but with Ludeon's touch. I love this game.Cheers.
I found a graphical bug with the water mills. When one was destroyed, its power grid still showed up in the power display:
(https://www.outpig.com/files/watermill.jpg)
I'm kind of liking where watermills are at with the rebalanced power output. They are still very good on river maps, but not overpowered I think.
About the skill leveling speed (Jibbles): I have found skill leveling to be noticeably faster. I think at some point Tynan said that skill mastery shouldn't happen in every game, yet 3 years in and I have a skill level 18 researcher (with only one flame) and several skill levels over 14. I think the speed should be somewhere between what it was in B18 and what it is now.
Blake: It took a long ass time to level up my pawns in previous versions. My colonies would survive for 8+ years and hardly any of them would have the skills to show for it unless I'm purposely grinding them. I'm enjoying the speed in how fast they level up. I was thinking it might be a tad too fast at first, but I know there are players out there who don't want to play so long on a colony. So it feels about right in its current state IMO. Hope you can look past the degradation sometime soon.
I can also attest to mad animals attacking doors without colonists anywhere nearby. Two pigs were hauling stuff a bit closer, but the hare came from the north, and the pigs only use the south entrance. First image shows the combat log, second image shows the distance between the hare and everything else.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/8ijnbcbe5/hare.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/8ijnbcbe5/)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/wmaezn1kt/layout.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wmaezn1kt/)
Didn't expect chocolate trees to die in winter, since other trees don't.
Vegetation regrow is extremely slow. Current jungle looks worse than temperate forest from B18. My current small animal farm (10 chinchillas and 10 alpacas) are keeping a good quarter of default map bare.
BTW about animal farms. Every time raid arrives I have to change zone restrictions for both animals and pawns to hide them in a safe area. It is very tedious to do every time.
When setting up a tailoring bill, activating "pause when satisfied" doesn't give you the option to set up an unpause amount.
Another user mentioned it a couple weeks ago but it's still an issue in the latest build.
Quote from: MajorFordson on July 03, 2018, 03:28:56 PM
Something happened a day or two into my first game in 1.0, on normal temperate forest map. It seems like ALL of the animals decided to path out of the map at once. A bug? It felt really creepy, would be cool if that happened before some disasters!
Now /there/'s an excellent idea! No letters/notifications of any sort, but on-map wildlife dispersal/exodus over several game days makes a great deal of sense.. & would be only spotted by the hawk-eyed (tribals may get a buff to this, allowing for a non-specific notification of incoming natural disaster) player..
How this could/would be implemented into the current (points-based?) RNG disaster generator is left as an excersise for the student ;)
Couple more suggestions: there should be a way to supply prisoner addicts and hospitalised pawns with drugs as part of the wardening job, rather than having to keep checking e.g. alcohol need and setting an operation. Perhaps there should be an ongoing operation to supply them with whatever drugs they need to satisfy their addiction, or maybe an option like 'Gets drugs' which only shows up for addicts.
Another UI thing: maybe should be able to right click the white messages at the upper left of the screen; although they only last for seconds it's still annoying not to be able to select the colonists grayed out by the message.
QoL change I'd like to see, since it became kind of a nuisance on my last colony: Have the "count equipped" toggle for the workbenches also count equipped stuff on pawns away from the colony, or at least have another toggle, like Improved Workbench Management does.
Also, Drag and drop ordering of bills, please!
Thought I'd share my river colony from 1.0, though a build or two behind now.
In the long run everyone died of infection, flu, and plague. For some reason my starting medicine didn't spawn. Though I landed in the river originally, so maybe it decayed before my pawns put it away and I didn't notice.
I did have a few observations.
1. There can sometimes be graphical weirdness when bridges interact with land, notice in the northern exit, the bridge looks like it's only half on the shore. Not a problem or bug specifically, but made me a bit OCD.
2. Since all floor types are heavy, I was stuck with plain wood for all floors on water. Fine for most things, but really annoying when it comes to sterile/silver floors for medical/research/kitchen. Carpets being too heavy for a bridge just seems silly. I understand if some of this is for balance reasons though.
3. Some of the distinctions on what is Light/Medium/Heavy seem rather arbitrary and nonsensical. A stoneworking table is heavy, but a wind turbine is not? Again, totally get it if due to balance, just wish it made more sense.
4. Not a problem specifically, but the damn river was too small! Would love a lake biome, something similar to coast, where the edge(s) are shoreline, with a large lake in the middle? Maybe some small islands? Or maybe an option when settling a coastal area to change how much of the generated map is ocean?
Otherwise, I love the work that;s been done on caravans and quests. I never left my colony pre B18, and in 18 I only did so rarely (AI core). You want what? 300 pants? Hah no. The quests now seem way more doable, reachable, and rewarding. Caravaning is easy and enjoyable, so much infact, that one of my other bases got wiped because I sent everyone except for two pawns out, and they couldn't defend against the incoming raid on their own. Where before 90% of quest pops where ignored, now I get excited when one shows up.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: MajorFordson on July 03, 2018, 03:28:56 PM
Something happened a day or two into my first game in 1.0, on normal temperate forest map. It seems like ALL of the animals decided to path out of the map at once. A bug? It felt really creepy, would be cool if that happened before some disasters, but it just felt like a bug!
It's not a bug, it's their Intended Behavior if the map's temperature exceeds their safe range. I'm guessing it happened during either a Heat Wave or a Cold Snap. I find it irritating because I don't know where they expect to go to
escape it.
Is late game going to become more challenging in 1.0? Because right now, once you've reached a stable food supply and whatnot, you're basically able to fend from all attacks. It's a positive feedback loop.
Quote from: python8u on July 04, 2018, 10:59:07 PM
Is late game going to become more challenging in 1.0? Because right now, once you've reached a stable food supply and whatnot, you're basically able to fend from all attacks. It's a positive feedback loop.
At what difficulty? ::)
Giving some thoughts on my full playthrough:
-I'm not sure if making uranium a large item rather than a 1/10 or 1/20 item was a 1.0 thing, I think it was, but this had 2 interesting consequences:
The one LRMS spot that I ended up traveling to but ended up not being worth it was a a uranium deposit, and even with some muffalos and a guy, I couldn't really bring back much uranium
On the flip side, high HP repositionable mini-turrets made out of uranium from deep drilling are now a thing. I didn't capitalize on this because I had no idea what was coming before I hit the shiny red button on the ship, but it would have been really nice if I built more than one of these. Even though stuffed cannons would have been seriously OP, I almost wish they still existed just to see invincible uranium cannons ::)
-Having played the whole end game sequence, I still think it needs to be toned down, and luckily I finished the game so I can say this as a sore winner rather than as a sore loser xD I had over 20 raids during the sequence, my stats for the game said I had 41 raids, so that means in my roughly 4 year game roughly half of all the raids were just in the final 15 days.
There's a few reasons I have for this:
1)The difficulty is overwhelmingly higher that what you're expecting when the game says "this is worse than you're expecting". If I had known what was coming, I'd have stocked up seriously on every single drug, made 150 mortars and maxed out reputation on all factions. This could be alleviated just with a bigger warning.
2) There's simply no time to deal with the aftermath of raids. What you imagine when you say you have 20 raids in 15 days is you think "oh well, you slowly whittle away at your colony, and hopefully some people are left to escape" That not really what occurs.
Normally there's a few critical things you need to do between raids:
-Sleep
-regrow recreation
-rebuild power lines
-re-arm cannons/turrets
-tend wounded
-clean up your living room
-rebuild defenses lost
What happens is a couple raids go by and eventually one of them trashes your fort. Normally, even if you don't have time to rebuild defenses, at least you can deal with some of the other problems, but during the launch sequence you just have to deal with the fact that everyone now has permanently bad mood and infections are killing everyone. For me this happened at the 8 day mark when a pirate drop pod and a caravan blew up my interior with an ungodly amount of explosions and all of my hospital beds got destroyed. Luckily only one person was inside the hospital, which reached 1200C. Poor guy. If this happened at the 12 day mark, I would have just quit probably.
3) Things just snowball when they go wrong, and after that critical point you're just kind of watching things. The epic battle is mostly just depressing limping along with little agency outside your fortress.
My personal suggestion: I would keep the raid frequency but lower time a lot to warmup a lot, like maybe to 7-10 days. This would mean even if you reach that critical failure point, at least you might have a bit if fight in you left. I only lucked out because I built my ship somewhat away from the core base stockpiles so raiders mostly trashed my fort instead of the ship. If they ever knocked down the walls around the ship there really wasn't anything I could have done for an entire week.
Another possibility is just giving a break in raids after drop pod attacks. The guy who posted that epic video had the same suggestion. These drop pod attacks just cause insane levels of damage, and you can't deal with it during the ship sequence in the slightest.
Moving on: deep drilling infestations I think are going to piss people off, probably only people that go heavy on turrets/cannons as they are weak attacks in general but are quite frequent. Over the course of the game, I lost ~10 cannons to this. Unfortunately, they just run straight for them and once they do they don't change targets when you melee them, and even if they did, you get to have fun with autocannons blowing up in your face.
I'm actually not sure how to deal with them other than drilling far away from the cannons: Building walls around the drills is easier than it sounds, as I don't want to block LOS from the cannons for raiders. You can't move the cannons and you can't choose where the drill deposits are. And last I played deadfalls don't trigger often against bugs, especially the middle and small sized ones.
A note about cannons: friendly fire is a huge deal, of my 13 deaths before ship launch, 8 were cannons. That's even with being very aware that my own cannons were my biggest threat. My strategy after a while was giving half of my fort shields and melee and mostly relying on the cannons for ranged damage, and sitting in doorways of my fort with my charged rifle guys or using emp shell mortars rather than emp grenades.
Funny notes about the game: the new armor system is kinda weird. Yes infection rate is much lower with less bleeding wounds. On the other hand, 3 of my colonists had heavy brain injuries and resorted to luciferium, most had bionic spines or arms, and I even just stopped bothering with the hassle of making bionic limbs and just started using prosthetics. You could tell how long a colonist was with the colony by how many natural limbs he had.
One really unfortunate colonist had two peg legs -___-
Armor degradation is also pretty heavy if you're using playstyle that involved taking a lot of hits. By the end of the game most of my power armor was just falling apart, and I simply couldn't replace them. A lot of times a colonist would get downed and I'll find out he was naked.
Regarding pyromanic/gourmand changes: This was nice, I had a few gourmands and one pyro. the one pyro never broke although he died very quickly in the game, and the gourmands only broke about once a year or two. That was flavorful and not too inhibiting.
Edit: also final note I forgot, "terminator" pawns were slightly disappointing using the relatively new shooting accuracy formula. This was changed in b18/17 I think, but it's something that felt disappointing enough to mention anyways. Notably I installed a bionic eye on someone with good shooting and transhumanism and I think they ended up with only 97% shooting accuracy which wasn't much higher than they had before (earlier betas you would get 99.5% ish). That made me just not bother. The postprocessing itself is fine, but the bionic eye itself is somewhat lacking.
@python HAHAHAHA launch the ship before you worry about end gae difficulty.
Quote from: robno on July 04, 2018, 06:38:55 PM
I found a graphical bug with the water mills. When one was destroyed, its power grid still showed up in the power display:
I'm kind of liking where watermills are at with the rebalanced power output. They are still very good on river maps, but not overpowered I think.
About the skill leveling speed (Jibbles): I have found skill leveling to be noticeably faster. I think at some point Tynan said that skill mastery shouldn't happen in every game, yet 3 years in and I have a skill level 18 researcher (with only one flame) and several skill levels over 14. I think the speed should be somewhere between what it was in B18 and what it is now.
Robno, just to confirm, I had this same thing happen to me as well, also with a watermill. The power conduit that appeared to be there did eventually just disappear, and I'm not sure why. It wasn't anything I did; perhaps a save reload or something? I sort of just moved on when it happened, but I've definitely experienced this as well.
Quote from: zizard on July 03, 2018, 11:26:41 PM
Reduction in work cost for many crafted items makes it cost an inordinate amount of materials to train crafting.
I'd go so far as to claim that this encourages repeatedly crafting, canceling, crafting the same recipes to train crafting. Thus, encouraging micromanagement, not fun gameplay, and ruins immersion. I'm not saying the adjustments were bad and probably make sense but, this is a good point by Zizard. Perhaps, some item that has an inordinate work time cost vs. materials usage? I might suggest "Complex Puzzle" as an option. Takes the maker a very long time to craft and get right but, doesn't use many resources. Boom, training and a neat little addition.
You can always use unpowered tailoring bench for lower crafting speed, along with combination of bad temperature, darkness and outside penalties to work speed as well. A kind of spartan training - sew a jacket in total darkness to become a master :D
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 09:09:35 AM
Remove the "they learned your trap locations" mechanics since nobody ever noticed them anyway.
I would just like to say that I DID notice this and attempted to negate it by adding roofs (thinking darkness could help minimize this) and mixing up the movement of any kill-tunnels by shifting sandbags around, to promote new pathing XD Not sure if I had the right idea, there. It was all guesses once I realized what was happening. Wish I'd have given props earlier on. Hate to see that it was lost on most of us. :salute:
With that said, would it be possible to tie the chances of "Successfully located a trap" to specific skills, on each pawn? Construction would make the most sense. You know how to make them, you might find them just as well while others are just lucky to find 'em. Allow pawns within a radius of the finder to "gain" this knowledge as well --
"Whoa, buddy. Don't step there. Tell the guys behind you."
It's not in the changelog but did they intentionally make you have to research to tailor? I don't mind if so but it surprised me.
I know it's recent because I have a tailoring bench in a new save that I started 1 version ago, but can't build another.
Quote from: gadjung on July 04, 2018, 11:05:06 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 09:09:35 AM
Refactor FactionTacticalMemory and changed remember chance from 20% to 100%.
Don't know if it's possible, but it would be nice to have it as min 20% with scaling factor of how many enemies survived (fled) raid, with 5-6 giving 100%, that would make it more worth to pursue/kill/capture fleeing raiders (for people that are not running hat and organ factories).
For no i just let them run away since there is no downside of that and i prefer to tend my pawns quick to avoid infections.
Same should be added when releasing prisoners - since it's easy way of farming relations - also without any reprecussions
I had the exact same thought, when reading that note. This would feel so much better scaling with survivors (and people have hazy memories when bleeding out and running for their lives ;) ) It'd be an amazing rush to catch every one and know that nobody will gain this knowledge.
With that said, I would love to posit this example:
Enemy raids and maybe only one of the enemy gents / ladies gets away: Scared, friends dead, shot in the back, bleeding out, in massive pain --
Currently, this gent would be able to memorize ALL trap positions and make notes on all of their triggers, to finally make it home in a daze, exsanguinated, and practically on death's door. Then, that gent grabs up his trusty fountain pen and perfectly sketches out this information for the faction. I'm laughing as I write this, btw.
Thanks for ongoing feedback.
It would be very helpful if, when telling any story or commenting on difficulty, everyone could post their difficulty level, biome, and hilliness.
Glitch: While hovering over the "need warm clothes" message, it only highlights one colonists and when repeatedly click on those not cycle through them.
Not sure what's going on in my current save file, but I don't think I've had a "raid" event in the last two years. I've had three manhunter events that consisted of two lynx and a warg pack, each event roughly threw around 13~15 animals at me. Meat and leather at my doorstep is great but just wondering what all the raiders are doing. :P
Also, I'm up to 98k colony wealth but have only encountered two ancient ship events so far. In the previous versions, I got my first two ancient ships before I even hit 60k colony wealth. I appreciate all the downtime for base upgrades but I'm kind of afraid of what will be thrown at me next because it has been fairly quiet for a while.
My message log as far as it can go back to: https://imgur.com/a/J6aa703
Phoebe - Hard - Tundra - Flat
Edit: I have no mods installed. Started Naked Brutality, but with two pawns.
Wanderer joins event disabled and starting colonists age range between 20~30.
While you're waiting for the meta to shake out a bit and get more feedback, I'd suggest giving some love to the bug reports forum -- there's a few pages of 1.0 bugs there that are good targets for making the game feel polished, many still waiting on a confirmation/acknowledgement. Some from .18 and earlier ;)
Was playing earlier and when winter temps began, due to a door left open, pretty much every animal on the map rushed into my base. I've never seen that happen on that scale before. Usually they just rush to the edge of the map, in my experience.
(Playing on default size map, Cassandra peaceful, flat temperate forest I believe.)
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 05, 2018, 12:31:49 AM
It's not in the changelog but did they intentionally make you have to research to tailor? I don't mind if so but it surprised me.
I know it's recent because I have a tailoring bench in a new save that I started 1 version ago, but can't build another.
No, he just increased the research cost of complex clothing, which you already had (you're not tribal). Your points into it remain unchanged, so now they are no longer sufficient and you need to finish up researching conplex clothing. Same happened with microelectronics i think, which now contains the comms console.
So are smokepop belts suppose to have qualities? Very strange considering the one-use nature of the item.
Moisture pump doesn't show radius, same problem that hydroponics have. Also, it takes FOREVER for the radius to expand. Like literal years. Can it be cut in half or something?
Getting scratched on naked brutality is instant death sentance, its like 90% to get infection and with self tending and super immunity trait pawn still dies. Even if first mad animal won't kill my pawn, second surely will.
regarding belt:
https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Smokepop_belt
Quote from: Sirinox on July 04, 2018, 10:09:11 AM
Regarding using bedrolls in caravans, seems like it does not take into account bedroll comfort buff (along with comfort thoughts) yet, which would be nice.
Hmm, the comfort need was frozen (at 50%) for caravan members because there was nothing which could affect it. But now that we have bedrolls I think we can make it affect colonists again.
hello this is my first post after lurking this discussion for some times, i'm a casual player and usually play with cassandra | medium | temperate forest | small hills.
I try some NB starts, i found interesting most of the new features of this version, like the wildlife tab (no more searching all map for predator or small animals) or the new caravan ui very usefull.
My main problem is that after two-three raids i found paws with tattered appareal (expecially the brawler with the plate armors) and i have to keep crafting them to be at max defence and prevent the mood debuff, and looting the raiders it not very usefull as most of their gear come with low durability and also give the deadman appareal mood debuff, there is the possibility to add some sort of reparing maybe degrading the quality each time, for example a good flak vest would be repaired but become normal quality and when awful or poor quality is reached it's not possible to repair it anymore.
A things that happen to me is that one paw disappear from the colony and re-appear sometimes later as prisoner in a prisoner quest, i checked the message logs and i don't see anything that would cause the paw to exit the colony, usually i kill every raiders (maybe 1-2 of the faster can flee) so i was surprised when i see that (fortunatly she was guarded by 9 tribals so i rescue her and come back with 2 prisoners).
Another quality of life features would be to create cleaning priority areas right now i have to micromanage the cleaning of the kitchen to prevent food poisoning.
I still hope for quality clothing to bring some positive moodlets. Doesn't have to be anything big, but if tattered and tainted apparel upsets a colonist, excellent and above quality should bring some comfort related mood boosts. That d be quite nice detail.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 05, 2018, 12:31:49 AM
It's not in the changelog but did they intentionally make you have to research to tailor? I don't mind if so but it surprised me.
I know it's recent because I have a tailoring bench in a new save that I started 1 version ago, but can't build another.
They're changing around the research value needed for certain stuff. If you have a save file with something researched but now it needs a little more (say, from 1400 to 1600) you just need to research the difference 200.
So yeah, while research values are getting balanced, this can be a little weird. :P
I had a go at the Naked Brutality scenario yesterday (Phoebe Chillax, Basebuilder difficulty, cold&wet world).
First of all I had Engie chop some wood and cut some berries, and fix up the ruin nearby. It's pretty cold, so having somewhere warm for her to sleep seemed like a good idea.
There are some caves nearby with insect hives. A manhunting squirrel takes a shortcut through the caves and gets instantly annihilated by the insects.
While Engie works on extending the initial building (lots of tree chopping) I get her to cut some more berries to keep hunger at bay, and haul some of those back home. I also add a couple of passive coolers so that she doesn't get too warm inside the steam hut.
Engie is fairly skilled at crafting so she crafts herself a good quality short bow.
A lucky cargo pod contains almost three stacks of corn, which also gets dragged back home.
The first raider arrives just as I finish building some cheap wooden deadfall traps. They give him some injuries, but he still manages to get some hits on Engie before she escapes into the steam hut.
However, because there is an insect hive nearby, the raider decides to suicide into the insects since he can't get at Engie any more.
Engie sneaks over to the insect hive later on, steals some insect jelly for herself, and then also drags the raider's body out of the cave and strips him down for clothes. Hey, they're tainted and tattered, but it's better than going outside wearing nothing.
So far I've found it to be a fun scenario, and a bit difficult in the beginning. But well worth playing.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I just want to say the game feels a lot more refined than in B18 and it's also more enjoyable to play. I have much less mods, yet it feels there is more to do, simply because there is more missions and the missions are more worthwhile plus caravans aren't as annoying to use anymore.
There is still quite a few QoL things that could be improved, not involving any new content or large chunks of work, like colonists reclaiming their beds when returning from a caravan. (HINT HINT)
New build! Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone. Still lots to do over here.
---
EDIT: Build withdrawn due to serious bug.
Quote from: Tynan on July 05, 2018, 09:03:53 AM
Added sniper turret.
Ambush site part threat points now scale with the player colony's strength.
Downed refugees can no longer spawn with bleeding wounds (so they don't die while the player is trying to rescue them).
Simplified rules for trap springing. They now never spring on you or allies, and always spring on anyone else. Deadfall traps can now catch wild animals.
Predators no longer hunt humanlikes.
Added "Be carried if sick" toggle.
Oh my god! And here I was thinking about giving some time before playing again, right back to fire I go!
At this point I'm sure that Tynan and the others have gotten the hint about reclaiming beds when returning from caravaning. If it was a simple fix, it would have been added in a long time ago.
Oh hey an update, lemme read ...
No more research sleeping bags. Good. It's just a bag.
Okay, pekoe should totally be called pekoe. It's the same thing with the difficulties and glitterworld meds. It gives Rimworld flavor. Changing it to tea may confuse players because pekoe is under drugs and new players will be confused why pawns are being addicted to it.
Unpopular opinion: I don't mind predators hunting pawns. It makes sense. Should have kept it.
As for traps, I am totally cool with it now catching wild animals. Not so much allies not setting them off. Checker pattern works 99.99%. I've never had a problem with it. What should not trigger at all however is allies triggering IEDs. That would be more useful.
Yes yes, theory crafting and all that. Back to the swamps I go! Sniper turrets you say ....
Quote from: Tynan on July 04, 2018, 09:09:35 AM
New update. Various changes.
Note that the changelog is in reverse chronological order if some changes seem contradictory.
---
Remove the "they learned your trap locations" mechanics since nobody ever noticed them anyway. Reworked them to "they're smart, they can avoid your turrets and some of your traps".
Refactor FactionTacticalMemory and changed remember chance from 20% to 100%.
Adjust storyteller descriptions.
Caravan.Resting -> NightResting to make its meaning clear.
beCarriedByCaravanIfSick now defaults to true
Sick caravan members now rest in the best available bed when the caravan is not moving. Sick caravan members can now be carried by other pawns.
Tech level research penalty maxes at industrial level, this makes final research projects a lot easier. Rebalanced research projects. Removed Bridges research project.
Rearrange research and remove some dependencies. Adjusted some research prices. Properly format research XML.
Adjust difficulties descriptions.
Recolor berries object to have a more generalized purple color.
Fix berry bush positioning in cell.
Made a bunch of internal classes public.
Tending interval now depends on how many doctors there are in the caravan. Caravan members needing immediate treatment are now treated first.
Made sure that all site parts can always generate at least 1 enemy.
Caravan pawns no longer use JoyKinds they're bored of.
Another long time player first time poster here. o/
While i will probably do a more substantial post once i finish my current game ran across a situation i felt the need to
complain about report immediately. I just had a sapper raid that spawned in the north west corner of the map, ran towards my base in the middle of the map until it hit my turret perimeter, circled around my entire base until they reached the south east corner of the map (where i had not built turrets yet) and attack from there. While this is smart and even realistic behavior i does feel like it renders turrets rather pointless. My understanding from context is that the change was ment to nerf kill boxes and other cheesy tactics, not to make turrets useless entirely.
Another thought i had when i saw this (which i have admittedly not tested witch means this part is just theory crafting) is that this behavior of raider refusing to enter turret range seems very exploitable if combined with snipers.
screenshots for clarity, raider path in red turrets marked with green dots for clarity:
Edit: screenshots not appearing for some reason?
(http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_sappersturretbug1.jpg)(http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_sappersturretbug2.jpg)(http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_sappersturretbug3.jpg)
while i am at it i remembered another thing i noticed that might need balancing: After being shocked seeing 2 of my pawns in good quality steel plate armor (with power armor helmets) being killed in a single strike each by tribal pawn (non brawler with only 2 melee skill according to my examination of the body after death, destroyed the torso of one of my pawns neck of the other) i noticed that his mace had 50 armor penetration (normal quality, steel. 59 head armor penetration, 39.3 damage / 2 sec). Considering that "good" steel plate only has 36.1 blunt armor this would mean that my pawns where practically naked before him if i understand the armor system correctly.
(semi-theory crafting with controlled experiment beyond this point) Some testing of my own later showed me that even excellent power armor only has 54 blunt armor (45 base) while a simple marble club has has 49 armor penetration and a mastercrafted plasteel mace has 86 average (and 103 head) armor penetration! I understand that blunt weapons are supposed to be good against armor but even excellent power armor being barely better than being naked when faced with a basic steel mace (or even stone club) seems broken to me...
XeoNovaDan, the reason your post got removed is because it was pure theorycrafting (in addition to the fact that it had no constructive content).The purpose of this thread is to discuss experiences playing the build. How about actually trying the new turret before declaring that it's unbalanced and useless?
Traps never springing on allies is gonna be sick, no more checker patterns, total no-go zones instead. Cant wait to try that out! ;D
Tynan you broke stone doors, lol. Pawns keep opening them but not going through. At least in slightly older saves. Hang on starting new one now, also gonna try de-reconstructing them to see what happens
Logros - Yeah the "smart" raiders go around, most raids aren't "Smart" but a few are. They're announced in the letter. It's a special thing; it reduces the number of raiders to compensate.
Quote from: Sirsir on July 05, 2018, 09:43:41 AM
Tynan you broke stone doors, lol. Pawns keep opening them but not going through. At least in slightly older saves. Hang on starting new one now, also gonna try de-reconstructing them to see what happens
Sorry. Gonna revert. Probably won't be back up for 18 hours or so.
Even on a fresh map it happens, but when another pawn trys to use the same door at the same time they both pass.
I like the changes to the outdoors stockpiles. It makes sense that things deteriorate if left unroofed but deteriorate slower if roofed but outdoors however this becomes an issue with mortars and mortar shells. Mortars have to be outside (obviously) and you have to load shells one at a time it makes sense to have a stockpile of shells nearby. My current setup has a 2x2 roofed stockpile of shells between two mortars but because it's outside the shells are deteriorating. As far as balancing is concerned would it be implausible to say that shells deteriorate if unroofed but not if roofed?
Quote from: Twis7 on July 05, 2018, 09:51:15 AM
I like the changes to the outdoors stockpiles. It makes sense that things deteriorate if left unroofed but deteriorate slower if roofed but outdoors however this becomes an issue with mortars and mortar shells. Mortars have to be outside (obviously) and you have to load shells one at a time it makes sense to have a stockpile of shells nearby. My current setup has a 2x2 roofed stockpile of shells between two mortars but because it's outside the shells are deteriorating. As far as balancing is concerned would it be implausible to say that shells deteriorate if unroofed but not if roofed?
Just make a shelf to store it. It won't deteriorate.
Hi Tynan, I have a small request. It has probably already been requested by someone else, but I really really need a conduit deconstruct, because having to deconstruct each and every one of the conduits (besides something is almost always in front so you have to click twice) is a real pain for me. I'm sure you've already think about it (maybe it's even written in one of those 12 pages of yours), but I just wanted to remind you :)
Thank you.
P.S. I've been playing the game for several alphas and I still love it.
"You Shall Not Pass" .. wait that was Gandolf, but stone doors feel the same way. Colonists, Animals and Visitors to your map alike shall not pass through your doors regardless if it was an existing or new map. Colonist will also get stuck in an endless cycle of trying to repair these stone doors or just stand at them in a state of confusion, poor things. Steel doors appear to be working.
On the other hand the traps are working great, every field mouse in the area is in danger as they race their tortoise rival.
Pic showing colonists trapped in doors and death by trap to the local wildlife the latter working as intended I think?
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198094995854/screenshot/943950911478347163
Quote from: logros13 on July 05, 2018, 09:29:05 AM
(semi-theory crafting with controlled experiment beyond this point) Some testing of my own later showed me that even excellent power armor only has 54 blunt armor (45 base) while a simple marble club has has 49 armor penetration and a mastercrafted plasteel mace has 86 average (and 103 head) armor penetration! I understand that blunt weapons are supposed to be good against armor but even excellent power armor being barely better than being naked when faced with a basic steel mace (or even stone club) seems broken to me...
Something is very wrong with those numbers.
I'm looking at a Marble Club right now and it has 13% AP on its Poke and 23% on its Head.
And as for a Masterwork quality Plasteel Mace: 23%/41% respectively.
While melee is quite effective and I'm slowly becoming of the opinion that Blunt damage is more or less better for the player to use in almost every circumstance compared to Sharp, your numbers aren't right.
---
The gift goodwill impact being modified by relations is interesting and quite noticeable.
Unfortunately I feel like I've immediately broken the system by just delaying gifts to caravans I've called until reputation is ~+40. It reduces the efficiency a
bit but certainly not enough to break my " Constantly call caravans at every opportunity " rhythm. Will have to keep testing and see if it slows down my colony wealth.
The trap springing change is already yielding fantastic fruit as my allied caravans stomp all over my randomly scattered deadfall traps. Such a relief after just one caravan.
---
MeleeOn the subject of melee - after 5.5 years of Cass, Hard(Switched to V-hard after ~day220, Arid Shrub, Flat, Year-round growing, tribal start, I'm at 25 colonists and ~250k wealth. Wasn't particularly interested in enviromental difficulty, just wanted to combat-test the hell out of melee.
LongswordsI'm pretty much of the opinion that Longswords can go suck an egg. In fact.. so can all the sharp weapons.
Longswords cost 2x as much to make as maces, take 3x longer to craft, and are worth ~2x as much. And you have to research them,
blargh!So what about damage and general performance? Well you're not getting what you pay for that's for sure.
A longsword might yield ~20% more raw dps compared to a mace but it comes with significant disadvantages.
Their armor penetration (While impressive in isolation) doesn't compare particularly well to Maces, It's ~2x as much AP on average compared to a Mace but due to the fact that most apparel has >x2 the sharp resistance that's not super impressive.
Power armor and Flak equipment are both particularly comparatively vulnerable to blunt damage which are the most dangerous and common armor types for raiders respectively.
More Longswords(Cor, I really do yammer on don't I?)What about vs unarmoured targets? Surely vs tribals longsword's raw dps would be worthwhile? Well.. I tried that for about 2 years (Switching to swords when tribals appeared) and finally gave up and sold all my swords to reduce the wealth bloat.
Longswords do impressive damage per swing but.. they swing more slowly than maces, stun less often (Only 1/3 of their attacks do blunt damage) and often overkill whatever part they hit which wastes a lot of damage.
While I'm on the subject.. how does the game determine which melee attack it wants to use? It's not uncommon for pawns to punch even when they're armed.. and it's not clear how likely a weapon is to use any given attack. Are longswords inherently hampered by having a low damage blunt attack that still has the same attack frequency? I have no clue.
StunningStunning is quite frankly incredibly powerful -though not particularly consistent- as often when meleeing enemies you're either outnumbered (Tribals/large sapper raids) or really don't want that target to swing its horrible death arms(Scythers, some sappers with plasteel weapon, bears, insects) so in most cases Maces are without a doubt the right call.
Power ClawsI can't find a use for Power claws on a melee focused pawn, as cool as they'd be :(. By and large if you have a good melee weapon replacing a hand with a Power Claw reduces the listed dps and since I don't know how often pawns are swinging with their hands instead of their weapons it's hard to put a value on. I know that Bionic/Archotech arms will yield bonuses in the melee department and won't penalize manipulation..
Basically they just feel rare, expensive, cool, but small penalties.
I question their overall usefulness on ranged pawns as well, I tried giving dedicated shooters claws in my last game and just got them to drop their weapons when engaged in melee which more or less worked but it was clunky and there's still that manipulation penalty weighing them down. Affecting hit chance of both melee
and ranged fire as well as general work efficiency. "Why not use bionic arms?" was always the question.
Brain injuriesOverall if I had a complaint at all it would be how common brain injuries can be when meleeing. I think it's mostly down to the fact that melee pawns on average receive considerably more hits per battle. The hits might be small but it doesn't take much to make someone seriously mentally handicapped. Especially when fighting enemies with ranged weapons since they're so unlikely to incapacitate a pawn as they feebly gun-bash away at plate armor.
I got fairly lucky in my run and I've had 9 healer serums, but I've had 8 brain injuries :P.
Even when wearing power armor helmets those noggins get knocked about a lot!
SummaryOverall I think melee is in a really good spot, it's competitive, enjoyable, and different. However, if it's not a Mace or a Longsword(Though I don't personally recommend them) then it's just fluff for the AI to use most of the time.
Which is fine, I enjoy the melee diversity and it's good for scaling enemy.
Oh since I forgot earlier - Not causing bleeding wounds (most of the time) is still a huge point in Blunt's favor.
Control still isn't great and it requires a
lot of pausing and microing, the addition reasonably large (Somewhere between 0.5-1 animals per colonist) dog (And now Bear,woo! Thank you exotic goods traders!Food efficient Bears!) pack makes a huge difference pre-shield-belts, locking down or drawing the fire of unengaged enemies. Still effective post-belts.
---
Shame about the door problem and subsequent revert, was looking forward to testing out sniper turrets. Brief look at their stats made me go "oOoOooOooo"
Oh and uhh.. Maybe take a quick look at the way Trees/cacti grow in Arid Shrubland? I swear blind that natural wood is harder to obtain in Arid than it is in Deserts. In fact I keep getting beaver events that just waffle about and leave the map because
there are no trees. Apart from the ones I have jealously planted and walled in.
Quote from: Boboid on July 05, 2018, 10:43:39 AM
Something is very wrong with those numbers.
I'm looking at a Marble Club right now and it has 13% AP on its Poke and 23% on its Head.
And as for a Masterwork quality Plasteel Mace: 23%/41% respectively.
While melee is quite effective and I'm slowly becoming of the opinion that Blunt damage is more or less better for the player to use in almost every circumstance compared to Sharp, your numbers aren't right.
fired up a new map and spawned some weapons in god mode after double checking the weapons in the old save and the stats are indeed different between the saves, apparently something borked while transitioning between versions. In other words move along nothing to see here. :-[
To bad i'l have to start a new game, rather likes that fort. :'(
Quote from: Boboid on July 05, 2018, 10:43:39 AM
Oh and uhh.. Maybe take a quick look at the way Trees/cacti grow in Arid Shrubland? I swear blind that natural wood is harder to obtain in Arid than it is in Deserts. In fact I keep getting beaver events that just waffle about and leave the map because there are no trees. Apart from the ones I have jealously planted and walled in.
My current game (Phoebe Medium, Arid Shrub, mountainous, river, coastal) is my first time playing in Arid Shrubland, as I am a total noob who has only played one long-term game before, but I noticed some serious tree issues as well. 15-30 days in there wasn't a single harvestable tree left on the map and for my entire first year or so I couldn't even get them to grow. I hadn't managed to get my growing area walled in and the random alphabeaver spawn, then the wandering thrumbo, and the next wandering thrumbo, went straight for my poor cactus field the second they entered the map.
I'm a couple years in now and I'm growing my own behind walls without issue but I couldn't make
anything that required wood for quite a while.
Quote from: Boboid on July 05, 2018, 10:43:39 AM
Melee
On the subject of melee - after 5.5 years of Cass, Hard(Switched to V-hard after ~day220, Arid Shrub, Flat, Year-round growing, tribal start, I'm at 25 colonists and ~250k wealth. Wasn't particularly interested in enviromental difficulty, just wanted to combat-test the hell out of melee.
Longswords
I'm pretty much of the opinion that Longswords can go suck an egg. In fact.. so can all the sharp weapons.
Longswords cost 2x as much to make as maces, take 3x longer to craft, and are worth ~2x as much. And you have to research them, blargh!
So what about damage and general performance? Well you're not getting what you pay for that's for sure.
A longsword might yield ~20% more raw dps compared to a mace but it comes with significant disadvantages.
Their armor penetration (While impressive in isolation) doesn't compare particularly well to Maces, It's ~2x as much AP on average compared to a Mace but due to the fact that most apparel has >x2 the sharp resistance that's not super impressive.
Power armor and Flak equipment are both particularly comparatively vulnerable to blunt damage which are the most dangerous and common armor types for raiders respectively.
More Longswords(Cor, I really do yammer on don't I?)
What about vs unarmoured targets? Surely vs tribals longsword's raw dps would be worthwhile? Well.. I tried that for about 2 years (Switching to swords when tribals appeared) and finally gave up and sold all my swords to reduce the wealth bloat.
Longswords do impressive damage per swing but.. they swing more slowly than maces, stun less often (Only 1/3 of their attacks do blunt damage) and often overkill whatever part they hit which wastes a lot of damage.
While I'm on the subject.. how does the game determine which melee attack it wants to use? It's not uncommon for pawns to punch even when they're armed.. and it's not clear how likely a weapon is to use any given attack. Are longswords inherently hampered by having a low damage blunt attack that still has the same attack frequency? I have no clue.
Stunning
Stunning is quite frankly incredibly powerful -though not particularly consistent- as often when meleeing enemies you're either outnumbered (Tribals/large sapper raids) or really don't want that target to swing its horrible death arms(Scythers, some sappers with plasteel weapon, bears, insects) so in most cases Maces are without a doubt the right call.
Power Claws
I can't find a use for Power claws on a melee focused pawn, as cool as they'd be :(. By and large if you have a good melee weapon replacing a hand with a Power Claw reduces the listed dps and since I don't know how often pawns are swinging with their hands instead of their weapons it's hard to put a value on. I know that Bionic/Archotech arms will yield bonuses in the melee department and won't penalize manipulation..
Basically they just feel rare, expensive, cool, but small penalties.
I question their overall usefulness on ranged pawns as well, I tried giving dedicated shooters claws in my last game and just got them to drop their weapons when engaged in melee which more or less worked but it was clunky and there's still that manipulation penalty weighing them down. Affecting hit chance of both melee and ranged fire as well as general work efficiency. "Why not use bionic arms?" was always the question.
I remember something from a long time ago about Gladius being better than longswords, that LS tended to overkill in the majority of situations, and Gladius had a better effective DPS due to its speed and lack of overkill. In short, Plasteel Gladius to kill, Wooden Mace to down. Its good to know that hasn't changed
Power claws I feel are for hybrid pawns. Give them a spray weapon, an AR or LMG, maybe even a minigun, and let them hold the door. If they make it to you, bring it. But truth be told they have always been bad to use because they make social fights lethal, and reduces a pawns manipulation.
My game stared on Boreal, Mountains w/River, Phoebe-Some Challenge
Physically the set up of the map was excellent as opponents could only enter the map from two map edges. I was set up in the top right corner, on the north side of the river. Then below the river was a nice marsh area, perfect for slowing down an attacking enemy and taking the take to snipe them out. Raid wise I never faced anything too challenging, but the heavy turret did one-shot a scyther, which kind of blew my mind.
I remember reading a comment about someone having difficulty finding Uranium. First deep drill I laid down was right on top of Uranium and I ended up having 2500+, which is more uranium than I've ever had in any game. Then my 4th deep drill plot was Plasteel, also miraculous. Suffice to say I was able to make a lot of Power Armour. Steel ended up being the hardest resource to keep on top of until I eventually found some with the deep drill on my 5th deployment of it. 2 and 3 were Chemfuel for those paying attention.
My colony grew steadily over the three years that I was there. We researched all the tech with little difficulty. My population was about 12 people and 20 or so animals 1/3 dogs and 2/3 muffalos. Food seemed to be the primary issue for me. I would have six 14 x 14 growing plots for growing food, mostly rice as that had the fastest turn around. I also had two hydroponics rooms with 12 hydroponic banks. By mid winter we'd be out of food. I probably should've grown hay too, but my pawns had the hardest time keeping up with the sowing demands with what I had. I did use a multi-meal cook mod, but ultimately keeping up with the cooking wasn't the issue I had but keeping up with the growing requirements. Winters were pretty long too as they sometime were mid Apri-May before temperatures dipped out of freezing.
So I decided it was time to get out of dodge. We picked up everything of decent value to weight issue and headed south. With my population though and my entire freezer we still only had food for 6 days and this was with 3000+ pemmican, so clearly I needed to store way more food than I thought I did. Still I had my guys pack up. We headed south for warmer climates.
I traded with two guys. Then raided one camp that went pretty well. Then raided another camp along the way and that went terrible. Lost two guys, thankfully no one important so I just accepted it. Not much extra loot in these camps though, didn't these base's usually have a store room for loot? They at least had fields that I could harvest for food so I did that. Dismantled their tech then continued south. Still couldn't get very far, even sold a few animals at the next trading post, but food consumption was just too high. Eventually I had to settle for a camp on the road. Thankfully lots of wild muffalos for me to hunt to extinction. It was a Temperate zone, but out in the open, still surprising amount of iron available. There were four mining sections of it. It was still winter there, but as Apri-May is coming along the temperatures are starting to increase faster than in my old location so I'll farm and harvest and make as much as pemmican as I can before continuing, hopefully getting south enough to avoid the snow.
Quote from: Marstannum on July 05, 2018, 11:30:43 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 05, 2018, 10:43:39 AM
Oh and uhh.. Maybe take a quick look at the way Trees/cacti grow in Arid Shrubland? I swear blind that natural wood is harder to obtain in Arid than it is in Deserts. In fact I keep getting beaver events that just waffle about and leave the map because there are no trees. Apart from the ones I have jealously planted and walled in.
My current game (Phoebe Medium, Arid Shrub, mountainous, river, coastal) is my first time playing in Arid Shrubland, as I am a total noob who has only played one long-term game before, but I noticed some serious tree issues as well. 15-30 days in there wasn't a single harvestable tree left on the map and for my entire first year or so I couldn't even get them to grow. I hadn't managed to get my growing area walled in and the random alphabeaver spawn, then the wandering thrumbo, and the next wandering thrumbo, went straight for my poor cactus field the second they entered the map.
I'm a couple years in now and I'm growing my own behind walls without issue but I couldn't make anything that required wood for quite a while.
Im noticing poor wild plantlife growth in general, but it might just be the specific map Im on.
It is a temperate forest tile, but the east and west side are top to bottom uninterrupted deepwater on one side and mountains on the other. There is only a strip of soil down the middle about 50 to 80 tiles wide where plants can even grow. After the first year(Im now on year 3), the wild animal population has been charging across the map whenever ANY plant become available and devours it immediately. And only just this year did 5 new trees appear.
I feel like, if it doesn't already, the game needs to track how many soil tiles there are, how many of those tiles have mature plantlife and scale the animal wild life based on that. Because on my map there are WAY too many animals for the amount of plantlife currently available(maybe even if it were at max growth).
Quote from: dershamc903 on July 05, 2018, 12:20:28 PM
My game stared on Boreal, Mountains w/River, Phoebe-Some Challenge
My colony grew steadily over the three years that I was there. We researched all the tech with little difficulty. My population was about 12 people and 20 or so animals 1/3 dogs and 2/3 muffalos. Food seemed to be the primary issue for me. I would have six 14 x 14 growing plots for growing food, mostly rice as that had the fastest turn around. I also had two hydroponics rooms with 12 hydroponic banks. By mid winter we'd be out of food. I probably should've grown hay too, but my pawns had the hardest time keeping up with the sowing demands with what I had. I did use a multi-meal cook mod, but ultimately keeping up with the cooking wasn't the issue I had but keeping up with the growing requirements. Winters were pretty long too as they sometime were mid Apri-May before temperatures dipped out of freezing.
So I decided it was time to get out of dodge. We picked up everything of decent value to weight issue and headed south. With my population though and my entire freezer we still only had food for 6 days and this was with 3000+ pemmican, so clearly I needed to store way more food than I thought I did. Still I had my guys pack up. We headed south for warmer climates.
I traded with two guys. Then raided one camp that went pretty well. Then raided another camp along the way and that went terrible. Lost two guys, thankfully no one important so I just accepted it. Not much extra loot in these camps though, didn't these base's usually have a store room for loot? They at least had fields that I could harvest for food so I did that. Dismantled their tech then continued south. Still couldn't get very far, even sold a few animals at the next trading post, but food consumption was just too high. Eventually I had to settle for a camp on the road. Thankfully lots of wild muffalos for me to hunt to extinction. It was a Temperate zone, but out in the open, still surprising amount of iron available. There were four mining sections of it. It was still winter there, but as Apri-May is coming along the temperatures are starting to increase faster than in my old location so I'll farm and harvest and make as much as pemmican as I can before continuing, hopefully getting south enough to avoid the snow.
Rice got hit by the sowing nerf the hardest. IIRC Corn is the best plant to grow in non-gravel soil for the purpose of yield (assuming grow time is more than 20 days). Potatoes in gravel and Rice in hydro.
Also you can make a second location when your populations begins to outgrow food supply. You don't have to move EVERYONE. And drop pods are amazing for travel if you get enough of them.
As for wild growth I wish they would spawn from predetermined areas throughout the map, like hives, rather than just creeping in from the edges
Having played on boreal forest with a few muffalos I noticed how much they eat. I had maybe 1000 rice and it was gone pretty fast. Thankfully I had like 5000 meat and I kept making simple meals and feeding those to the muffalos. This easily lasted through the winter.
Thing really is that you can't have many animals if you don't have good growing periods, especially larger animals. Wool has gotten incredibly bad IMO, so it's not worth it anyway. Really just combat animals, boomalopes and cows are good in my opinion. Muffalos make an acceptable alternative to cows, but they aren't as good anymore. Main reason to have them is for caravans since cows don't carry stuff.
Also since I'm already at it:
Please Tynan, I played three games now and what happened to wool? Leather has become incredibly strong (especially heavy fur) while wool is almost as bad as cloth. I feel like taming animals and then waiting for 15-30 days (60 for megasloths who are super hard to tame) is way way harder than hunting a few deers - or megasloths.
Hunting megasloths has become the absolute dominant tactic for me. It's super easy, low risk, incredible reward. You get tons of meat, enough to even feed your muffalos through the winter (see story above) and you get the 2nd best leather in the game too, just after thrumbofur. I'm not saying nerf this tactic, but instead maybe make wool better again. I think the approach of leather giving better protection and wool better isolation was great. Maybe give wool a fat offset/bonus? Storytime again:
One mod I use a lot (in B18) is housekeeper cat (easy to tame animal that cleans/hauls nearly all the time, much better than dogs/wolves) - they also give 25 wool after some time. Their wool has not the greatest stats but a massive +15.0°C offset to heat and cold. Making tuques out of this wool basically handles all non-extreme climates and you can worry about other things. But it's not trivial because it takes a while to get the wool since they give only 25. Buying it is also hard since it's very expensive.
Following comments come from a mix of NB/crashlanded runs on cassandra/extreme in friendly biome (temp forest mostly) -
* Ancient dangers - my favorite part of 1.0 - I have probably cracked upwards of 30 of these in my runs. The loot tables are very spicy (much better than the only lance / soothe / luciferium you would typically see in old ancient dangers) - I was particularly amused at the flatscreen TV in one - mechs need their entertainment after all. The chance of hostiles in ancient dangers is also highly increased compare to B18, which I think is overall a good thing. Some list of combat scenarios - distracting lone centipede to rescue occupants, getting chased by yayo'd / gojuice triple hostile spacer, insane threeway fights between mech / spacer / my guys, etc. etc. Overall, I think that ADs nicely fulfill the 'high risk high reward' aspect much better than their B18 counterparts.
* Early game events (month 1 / early month 2) - in multiple games I got combination of overlapping psychic drone / heatwave. I am not sure whether this is the new norm for extreme (it was fairly rare in b18 for double bad event to strike so early), or I was just unlucky. I think the heatwave is fine - crashlanded is punished for prioritizing refrigeration instead of rushing tailoring ASAP, NB has 'some' counterplay. The addition of passive cooler to starting tech tree is very nice and means that on wood-available biome it should never alone be terminal. It should be noted that insulation values overall are nerfed compared to B18, so temperature spike events are more challenging to face early and result in greater productivity hit.
However, after multiple times dealing with drone event in month 1, I am hesitant to say that the intensification of psychic drone from a -15 (B18) to a -24 (1.0) hit against a psychically neutral pawn is a good thing. And this goes to design principle - my interpretation is that sitting in major/extreme risk for day+ period of time is intended to be near game losing if it happens early game, or pawn losing if it happens mid-late. You normally have to mismanage enormously to consistently hit this range. Yet for a week 1/2 crashlanded start (and especially for NB) this is near inevitable effect of getting hit by a -24, effective turning minor break fluctuations into extreme break fluctuation. You simply do not have the tools - drugs, psychic foil, impressive rooms - to play around it this early (well for the latter, there is a way, but you explicitly called it an exploit in one of the changelogs :D). By the way, psychically hypersensitive is hit for -43 mood malus.
Here is the realistic counterplay I came up with to this event when it strikes so early - cryocasket, caravan off the map, chain anesthetize affected pawns so they cannot break. I am not sure that these are the play patterns you are hoping to promote, and all of them subject you to incredibly RNG when done early game, but I am here to find solutions, not immersive solutions.
This makes me wonder whether the severity of bad events like heatwave / coldsnap / psychic drone could ramp up over the course of a game (thinking maybe .8x-1.2x range, though of course just spitballing here). Otherwise their effect is only felt early (and for psychic drone, felt so hard that it is completely uninteresting to deal with), yet nonfactors mid-lategame.
* Early raid composition is spiced up a bit - In particular there was a molotov raid as early as day 9, which I did not play very well against and was justly punished by a vast increase in firefighting time. Molotov in particular punishes passive defensive style against woody bases, so I rate this a good thing for incentivizing risk-averse player like me to switch it up. Might consider using more tools that punish passive playstyle more for raid design.
* Pawn variance. Tynan - it is clear you want to emphasize the pawn game events where you cannot see their traits/stats with your design changes, with heightened raider death roll and increased incap refugee events. I will point out that these pawns, on average, are awful if generated from typical crashlanded pool. At least from extreme perspective, the split is about 5% good pawns, 15% decent pawns, ~30% marginal ones (you wouldn't go out of your way to recruit them, but you wouldn't feel too bad getting them for discount - e.g. through rescue/join), and 50% pawns that are negative utility (if there was a button to annihilate them from your colony with zero cost, I would gladly pick it). Meanwhile, the tribal slate is a lot better, with far less incapables and multi-addict monstrosities.
You may not view this as a bad thing, as perhaps storytelling potential is heightened with bad pawns. But to me, there is very little storytelling aspect of figuring out the lowest cost way to get rid of terrible pawns that actively harm you the longer you keep them on. Its hard to calibrate, but I think the game would benefit from more marginal pawns, and less negative utility pawns. (From perspective of extreme year 1 - slothful, pyro, chem fasc, chem interest, gourmand, depressive, any non-ambrosia addict is negative utility almost regardless of whatever traits / skills they may bring. Slothful maybe being an exception if dumb labor capable. And that's just the 'instantly useless' category, there are many more permutations of bad trait/incap monstrosities).
In fact, I wouldn't mind if "straight up good" traits were nerfed, "straight up awful" traits severity was decreased, and most traits had reasonable tradeoffs that were gamestate dependent (neurotic I think is a good example of this, and the shooter traits).
The 'guaranteed mental break' traits (its true you can avoid chemint/chemfasc with no drugs on map, but drugs are such a powerful mood controller that the existence of one chem int does massive indirect damage to the rest of the colony by making it go drug-free) are another matter. Frankly, '5% chance per month of being 1 shooter down during raid / X% chance to attempt to suicide to raid / X% chance to actively harm your colony during raid + assorted guaranteed productivity hits' means that you'd practically need to have a pawn rolling top 1% percentile in every other aspect to consider taking one on.
(I am a little bit salty about a month 1 refugee chased that was the mother of one of my colonists, so I presumed I would get mood hit from rejecting - is that actually true? Anyways, turned out to be go juice addict - that is 50 meals worth of guaranteed zero or negative utility if I try to fight the addiction, so it is just a nonstarter early game - even if I cryo her, this still counts against my population cap, and thus indirectly harms my chances of getting non-negative utility pawns in the future. This was the equivalent to getting triple disaster and 1+1+1.5 raids within the first 13 days of the game. I would argue that this refugee chased event was probably the most punitive event I have ever gotten in this game, moreso than stuff like day 2 heatwave on tribal/extr)
* Overall difficulty - almost every aspect compared to B18 is harder. More intelligent raids, mood management tools are weaker, the recreation changes forcing productivity hit, addition of more autoreject level traits. I will say that I feel the lack of certain QoL mods, and early game feels very burdensome for extreme as I feel forced to micromanage every aspect of their days in month 1 so as to not be behind the curve. When I see a pawn hauling 3/25 steel to a door, I must manually guide him to the correct amount, otherwise he just wasted 10% of his productive hours in the day on doing 2 hauls when 1 would suffice. I must constantly switch around restrict hours just to minimize their walking time, and this is with a relatively compact base - problems accentuate with your envisioned larger base, with every pawn travel time inefficiency being magnified.
I am not sure how to solve this problem, to be honest. But doing these actions x100 is easily one of the most soul draining parts of playing.
Build is up!
----
Fixed a bunch of issues with doors.
Fix: Sappers never flee.
Fix 3502: ArgumentOutOfRangeException on CaravanRestUtility after trading with Caravan Meeting
Changed gift goodwill impact so the better the current relations the smaller the impact.
New conduit art and power grid overlay art.
Fix: Randy description appears in a scroll box.
Added sniper turret. Normalize naming of some turret-related assets.
Ambush site part threat points now scale with the player colony's strength.
Remove unused duplicate sounds.
Downed refugees can no longer spawn with bleeding wounds (so they don't die while the player is trying to rescue them).
Simplified rules for trap springing. They now never spring on you or allies, and always spring on anyone else. Deadfall traps can now catch wild animals.
Adjusted door closing speed, door health, door heat transfer rate.
Hives can now appear in >= 2 cells areas (instead of 16). Insects will now dig faster in smaller rooms.
Hyperweave is now a possible quest reward. Increased prevalence of power armor and plate armor as a quest rewards.
Bedrolls no longer require research. Because seriously, it's a bag.
Rename pekoe -> tea.
Predators no longer hunt humanlikes.
Food poisoning chance from filth now has a threshold so just a couple bits of dirt won't cause poisoning. Reduces the need for obsessive cleaning micro.
Adjusted outdoors need speeds.
Speed up some wild plant regrow times.
Wind turbine now requires heavy terrain affordance.
Rearrange and rename some plant-related code to cleanly separate fall colors system from PlantUtility.
Comfort need is no longer frozen for caravan members since now it's possible to gain it by using bedrolls.
Fix: Grammar errors in generated text involving animals (indefinite -> definite case).
Infestation letter now points at all hive clusters, not just one. (ship part crash letter too)
Added "Be carried if sick" toggle.
i just had i pawn who had the mental break "gave up", when she tried to walk to the edge of the map to leave the colony, i attack her with some other pawns then i could rescue her and after she was healed she goes back to work as any other pawn, like "guys i was jocking, i'm back to work".
In this case for me it make more sense if the pawn become like a "visitor" something similar to when a pawn become a wildman so you lose it and you need to recapture and re-recruit it to bring it back to the colony
Hey I dont know if this is a bug or not, but this has happened several times now.
My pawn has lapsed into a "Minor Mental Break" several times now while having max or near-max mood status (she's a Pyromaniac). See attached image.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 05, 2018, 01:40:23 PM
Fix: Sappers never flee.
Hives can now appear in >= 2 cells areas (instead of 16). Insects will now dig faster in smaller rooms.
Insane tribal sapper raids, you were short lived but will always be remembered.
with horrorAs a coincidence I was just about to start a mountain game, so that hive change is going to change lot o.o And bring a whole new meaning to bed bugs in rimworld.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 05, 2018, 01:25:22 PM
what happened to wool? Leather has become incredibly strong (especially heavy fur) while wool is almost as bad as cloth.
Agreed. Wool was a bit OP before (at least in very hot or cold biomes where all you needed was a wool jacket), but it was one of the few things that encouraged you to keep animals. Sure tone it down a bit, but not this far
Dangit, my original picture was too large, so my long post got deleted with it. :(
Cassandra Rough | Boreal 20/60 | River + Dirt Road | Mountainous
Welcome to Secret River, home of the Northwestern Notswaba faction on the world of cards (30%)
1) I've managed 3-4 Muffallows + calves by growing rice under Sunlamp on standard soil. 50 rice spots per muffalow + kibble for treats/training keeps them from starving (3 years and going so far). Wool IS nerfed a bit, but it's also the only thing to make tuques/sock-hats from.
2) Food in general is a huge issue. I'm finally comfortable and making surplus for caravans with 250 corn spots for 13 colonists + hunting everything bigger than rats all year around. 100 hay spots for kibble. I had 4000+ meat worth of megatherium knock down my doors this winter. Butchers are sharpening their knives in antici...pation.
I also have a pack of 5 huskies + pups, the same in Wargs, and a couple bears. Bears are OP. Richard the Raid Destroying bear, R.I.P. Bears and Huskies seem to eat whatever is in front of them when they get hungry.
3) 150 herbal medicine summer field + 60 spot rotating medicine/beer/psychoid field is STILL not adequate for medicine/recreation.
4) I would have literally no steel due to power requirements without using Bulk Cooking and Dub's Skylights. I only have 800 as is, and it's always in flux from making more flak armors/guns/filling caravan requests. I have literally no turrets.
5) I haven't raided any bandit camps yet. Maybe after winter.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I haven't really played 1.0 yet (I simply can't without my favorite pawns from EDB Prepare Carefully *looking angrily at Tynan for not having included that functionality as vanilla*), but my problem with raids so far was that they simply appear out of nowhere and either you're prepared for them or not. If they have arrived you almost don't have time to prepare anything most of the times, sieges being the exception. That really feels like an rng element to me, if you survive or not.
In the beginning of a game surprise raids totally make sense (colony not really established yet, raids quite weak etc.), but later on I'd like to have some kind of warning in advance.
A simple approach my be to get a warning letter one day before they arrive. Maybe even from which direction they'll come (a huge factor imho).
For a more complex approach with game systems, these can include building of watch towers, either on your colony map or on the world map. Those watch tower will warn you from incoming raids, so you can prepare better for mid- and late-game raids.
> Fix: Sappers never flee.
Thanks. It was way too scary to have tribal hordes dig to you and don't run home, when you slaugther over a half of them.
> Ambush site part threat points now scale with the player colony's strength.
Can you elaborate a bit? We all know how colony wealth is calculated, but what is colony strength? Just the amount of people, armors, weapons? Does it mean if you have like 20 people going, sending small squads of 3-4 people to quests sites is no longer viable, since it'll be a suicide mission?
> Simplified rules for trap springing. They now never spring on you or allies, and always spring on anyone else. Deadfall traps can now catch wild animals.
Thats real nice. As people said - no more checkered pattern tile hopping. Cool.
> Rename pekoe -> tea.
Coolest change ever! Sersiously.
> Speed up some wild plant regrow times.
This was badly needed. I also hope you will increase overall thickness of both grass and trees, its really ridiculous how temperate forests looked half dead plains.
> Predators no longer hunt humanlikes.
I am conflicted about this one. On one hand i just hated how you could easily lose a pawn at any given moment, without being able to do anything, because colonist's hand to hand fighting skills suck. On the other hand i liked it for added challenge when you could still point-blank shoot the wolves and other hunting animals - that was a decent chance of survival.
> Bedrolls
I really like bedroll changes! The more preparation means you have for caravaneering to make it easier if you just take your time preparing - the more worth it is to actually go out anywhere and not die horribly.
And another approach for destroying and repairing:
Maybe heavy structures shouldn't be fully destroyable by bullets, but only by grenades and rockets or similiar. Let's say you can grind down heavy structures by bullets down to ~5% of their health and then they cease their function until repaired (that may already be the case with higher %). To fully destroy them, you need explosive stuff.
Sniper my ass. It took 20 (twenty) shots out of 40 shot durability to take down a single pirate.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Wow, yeah with accuracy like that without enemy even having a bush for cover - there s nothing sniper about that thingy.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 05, 2018, 02:17:53 PM
Wow, yeah with accuracy like that without enemy even having a bush for cover - there s nothing sniper about that thingy.
Not only accuracy. It took 4 (four) shots to take that pirate down, including one headshot, and headshot was not even the last one.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 05, 2018, 02:04:05 PM
Can you elaborate a bit? We all know how colony wealth is calculated, but what is colony strength? Just the amount of people, armors, weapons? Does it mean if you have like 20 people going, sending small squads of 3-4 people to quests sites is no longer viable, since it'll be a suicide mission?
Colony strength means colony wealth (kind of, it also looks at how many colonists you have), the same value we use for raids. There's a special factor for site parts of course, so they're not as strong as normal raids, but they now scale with colony strength. To balance this all site parts are now known to the player, including the number of enemies. The only exception are hidden ambushes, so sending small squads can be risky.
^ You might want to tighten the proc range on ambushes, right now after some trial and error it's possible to flee from ambushes with a 1 man squad pretty consistently if you get your spacing right, and my impression is that this is not intended to be risk-free for one person.
Quote from: Tynan on July 05, 2018, 01:40:23 PM
Fix: Sappers never flee.
Was it a bug? I thought it was the intended difficulty. Good fix.
There's a graphical problem when you build power sources next to each other and see their energy conduits. It has been an issue since the previous version.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZphJ8yJ.png)
About deadfall traps never springing on you or allies: new meta for bases guys! in case you have tons of steel to spend.
(https://i.imgur.com/bWuPbGK.png)
I wonder if IEDs work similarly. Maybe explosives need a strategy, but EMP ones will counter mechanoids for sure.
And predators are passive now. Once there are no animals they could hunt for, they'll stand there until a new proper animal spawns. And when you attack them, they don't go manhunter for 100% chance anymore. They'll fight back until you flee, then they'll leave you alone. I wish this was a thing only in peaceful difficulty.
Quote from: Tynan on July 05, 2018, 01:40:23 PM
Build is up!
----
Predators no longer hunt humanlikes.
:( I've had multiple colonists die to predators in my past saves but I actually liked that because it meant I had to pay better attention to the wild animals around the area. The addition of the wild life tab allowed me to quickly check and aggressively hunt everything on the map excluding the hares. I'm a bit sad that predators no longer hunt humans since I personally enjoyed that part of the game.
Any chance you could remove the skill check on dead fall traps? It's a stick propping up a heavy thing. Not exactly a complex mechanism.
I occasionally like to do a blind NB start. The game often rewards my foolishness with a nonviolent pawn with zero construction. Would be nice if I could skip the panicky constructing of random stuff for three construction levels just to be able to set up some traps.
( previous build, but I think there where no changes to that )
I am playing a tribal jungle colony on Randy Hard at the moment and for the last few ingame days ( the last ingame month ) I get showered with cargo pods.
I had 9 cargo pod events in 16 days, whith sometimes 2 or 3 pods per day ( nope, not decembrary 7th. )
It was real good stuff too.
2 events with devilstrand,
1 event with
some penoxy,
some flake ( which got my single retriever addicted :o)
a bulk of pemmican
and one of them knocked out a rhino for me :)
And I agree that the growth of underbrush( grass and everything not tree ) is somewhat stunted.
I added a screen shot in the middle of nowhere of my map. No animals nearby and there are still more
floor tiles visible than overgrown. Not my picture of a "green hell".
[attachment deleted due to age]
A dumb question here, is there anyway to track update patch notes from Tynan? I'm new to this forum so I don't really have a clue.
Quote from: brvnch on July 05, 2018, 03:02:32 PM
A dumb question here, is there anyway to track update patch notes from Tynan? I'm new to this forum so I don't really have a clue.
I think it's not complete but you can check the first one until a certain point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/8uk3u4/10_complete_changelog_since_initial_10_unstable/
I've been playing a very fun, successful crash landed colony on Cassandra medium prior to today's update. The raids seem toned down to a difficulty that seems right to me for medium. At least until I made all the non-pirate factions neutral. Now once again it's back to back to back raids from the pirate faction. They're not overly difficult raids. I dispatch them reliably. They're just so darned frequent. You'd think they'd learn after getting their butts kicked a few times to lay off. Maybe send fewer but stronger raids.
Maybe after a resounding defeat or two, enemy factions should have a "regrouping and rebuilding and restrategizing" cool down phase.
Or maybe just run out of recruits and disband.
Why won't predators hunt humanlikes anymore? I strongly oppose this, I really hope it is just temporary.
It has always been a thrill when in tropical biomes panthers begin to roam the outskirts of the base, that sensation of danger added to the experience. It would make sense if cobras didn't go for humanoids, but big predators not trying to hunt colonists seems very wrong to me. It takes away the challenge of some biomes, and also the immersion.
This could be a thing in lower difficulties, but passive predators in extreme doesn't feel right.
Quote from: Sig on July 05, 2018, 03:13:40 PM
Why won't predators hunt humanlikes anymore? I strongly oppose this, I really hope it is just temporary.
It has always been a thrill when in tropical biomes panthers begin to roam the outskirts of the base, that sensation of danger added to the experience. It would make sense if cobras didn't go for humanoids, but big predators not trying to hunt colonists seems very wrong to me. It takes away the challenge of some biomes, and also the immersion.
This could be a thing in lower difficulties, but passive predators in extreme doesn't feel right.
I think it's probably related to too much micro. While playing I kind of started to hunt all predators at all times, I would check the tab and mark them. Then I started a caravan and forgot about it for a time and the next thing I know a bear killed one of my colonists, no chance to try something, the only warning was that the pawn was down and needed rescue.
And it's probably very difficult to try to warn the player about it because it's not an event, it was just the animal that got hungry and decided your pawn was the closest thing.
I had a mod to warn when an animal was actively hunting a pawn and even that didn't help much because sometimes they would be close and even so not give enough time to counter it. It becomes much worse in winter since most animals leave so all predators will end up hunting you anyway.
And it does overlap with mad animals. If I could suggest something would be to split the mad animals into two events, the new one just for predators it would be like 'a predator started hunting your pawns because it is hungry' but then it would act like a mad animal until it eats and the point that would make it fair is that the predator would appear at the border giving plenty of time to deal with it.
Quote from: brvnch on July 05, 2018, 03:02:32 PM
A dumb question here, is there anyway to track update patch notes from Tynan? I'm new to this forum so I don't really have a clue.
You can click on Tynan's name on one of posts then click "Show posts" on his profile. It'll show all of his posts, not just the changelogs, but they'll all be there.
Quote from: Sig on July 05, 2018, 03:13:40 PM
Why won't predators hunt humanlikes anymore? I strongly oppose this, I really hope it is just temporary.
It has always been a thrill when in tropical biomes panthers begin to roam the outskirts of the base, that sensation of danger added to the experience. It would make sense if cobras didn't go for humanoids, but big predators not trying to hunt colonists seems very wrong to me. It takes away the challenge of some biomes, and also the immersion.
This could be a thing in lower difficulties, but passive predators in extreme doesn't feel right.
I think it may be a (temporary?) fix for the problem of not being able to shoot ranged weapons point blank any more, since unannounced predator attacks on a pawn with a ranged weapon becomes pretty devastating with little agency to counter it.
I think restricting ranged weapons to only be used at range is, overall, a good design choice. Maybe predators should be relatively easy to stun with melee attacks from a rifle (decreasingly as predator size increases, maybe). So you have a good chance to bonk a fox on the nose and run far enough to shoot it, a lesser but still significant chance with a wolf or big cat, and only a small chance with a bear.
Mostly predators were just really annoying, and had kind of weird newbie unfriendly solutions. Some people obsessively check the wildlife tab, some build large perimeter walls and never leave them, I personally make sure to just have enough animals they they would usually attack the babies and not me. I'm evil, sue me. Maybe a potential solution in the future is a "low food" style warning that there are active predators, but I like the current change.
https://imgur.com/a/HUMfi2N
Last raid was around day 157, I am now on day 265. Something is definitely wrong here. I've been playing this save since 1.0.1952 or something along those lines and just loading the newest unstable version as the game is updated. I'm friendly/neutral with all the other factions aside from pirates. Difficulty: Hard - Phoebe. Phoebe chillax is really living up to her name ;)
I see the doors got a buff in hp. My steel doors were at 150 last night, now at 180 (colonists running to repair them lol). I also noticed they take a bit longer to close after a pawn/animal walks through them. As far as heat transfer, I haven't noticed much of a difference that changes gameplay for me. Looking forward to using plasteel autodoors :D
Quote from: Serina on July 05, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
I also noticed they take a bit longer to close after a pawn/animal walks through them.
Looks extremly weird.
Heat transfer should still feel like the same. The door got slower and so heat transfer as so one cancel out the other.
Quote from: Serina on July 05, 2018, 03:47:09 PM
https://imgur.com/a/HUMfi2N
Last raid was around day 157, I am now on day 265. Something is definitely wrong here. I've been playing this save since 1.0.1952 or something along those lines and just loading the newest unstable version as the game is updated. I'm friendly/neutral with all the other factions aside from pirates. Difficulty: Hard - Phoebe. Phoebe chillax is really living up to her name ;)
I see the doors got a buff in hp. My steel doors were at 150 last night, now at 180 (colonists running to repair them lol). I also noticed they take a bit longer to close after a pawn/animal walks through them. As far as heat transfer, I haven't noticed much of a difference that changes gameplay for me. Looking forward to using plasteel autodoors :D
This was happening to me when I was friendly with all factions, although I was getting all mechanoids instead of manhunters :'(
So I pissed off some tribals and that helped. It could be that nothing ever changed in 1.0 and just that we now have reasons to befriend everyone which has weird consequences.
At first I thought the doors were stuck, but they closed after a few seconds. ^.^
I'm glad someone else is experiencing this lack of raids other than me. Makes sense you get less raids if you're friendly/neutral with more factions but I have to admit I feel like I'm playing on base builder now. I was afraid something broke in my save but don't want to start a fresh one because I really want to test the new sniper turret.
Quote from: Sig on July 05, 2018, 03:13:40 PM
Why won't predators hunt humanlikes anymore? I strongly oppose this, I really hope it is just temporary.
It has always been a thrill when in tropical biomes panthers begin to roam the outskirts of the base, that sensation of danger added to the experience. It would make sense if cobras didn't go for humanoids, but big predators not trying to hunt colonists seems very wrong to me. It takes away the challenge of some biomes, and also the immersion.
This could be a thing in lower difficulties, but passive predators in extreme doesn't feel right.
I second that. Especially since we now have even less problems with them due to nice new wildlife tab.
It would be nice and immersive to have a notification on the right about human hunting predators on the map instead (like the ones about low food or medicine).
Fauna is another environmental threat after all. Without wargs/wolfs/bears that would hunt for humans if have no other option it would feel incomplete.
I also would really like if there was an option to auto mark for hunting some animals if they are present in the list of wild animals. Not only for predators, but for other animals.
Checking the tab every 2-3 minutes for predators/deers was ok, but slightly tedious.
And as for the wildtab, it would be nice to see insects and mechanoids there too. It may be not very logical for mechs (though wild artificial creature is still wild creature).
Since they both don't have bright red name labels next to them as raiders, it's really easy to forget about one or few of them in late game where there are dozens of them. Once after cleaning all (as I thought) mechs from raid I found one centipede shredding insides of my distant storage at the moment it started to shred insides of one unlucky colonist too. And for the insects — they blend with earth and grass even more, and since they are not in wildlife tab it takes some tedious time and micro to ensure they are all killed.
The experience is from: Flat - Boreal forest - Cassandra Extreme
Was going to make a post about a my playthrough, but the most recent changelog looks sexy, and I was only ten days in anyways.
One problem though, that I didn't see potentially affected in the changelog: The art.
Here's the screenshot I'm going off of. (https://imgur.com/nJwPg1N) It looks like we have three art styles at one time. Don't get me wrong, I'm an awful artist. At the same time, it's kinda distracting. I can believe that the logs, stone bricks, steel, conduits, pine trees and pawns exist in the same world. I like them, too, it's just simplistic enough to not seem cartoony. However, they clash with the knife, (both) components, the medicine, soothe pulser, the ground, and the sandwich-looking bionic eye. They remind me more of one of those flash games (http://armorgames.com/play/12009/the-last-stand-union-city) going for a more realistic look. Not terrible, just rougher and different. The textiles just look wack, though (making the band holding them together one color instead of the same as the rest of the sheet would go a long way, in my own opinion). Finally, I miss the old, round silver. Now I'm just getting a snotty-tissue/forgotten-popcorn-under-the-couch vibe. The old round design kinda made it seem more refined, valuable. The silver we have now looks like it's begging to be made into a weapon or loaded into a cannon, not set as a global currency.
Stylistic conflicts have always been an issue for me. I needed my texture packs for Minecraft to be 100% completed, I wouldn't wear anything that didn't go with the rest of the outfit in TF2 (or the crazy weapon skins most fps games have), and nowadays, my choice in mods for Rimworld are nearly entirely dependent on the art. Hope that gives away that I'm a stickler for these kinda things. I'm sure that bugs, new content, and rough edges are a higher priority, but I sincerely hope that one consistent art-style steadily absorbs the rest of the game.
P.S. Sorry if this seems negative, social circles call me overly harsh. Not defending it or bragging about it, just establishing it. I put the same amount of time into this game over a year as I did in four or five with TF2, I'm invested in it's future.
Past couple of patches I've noticed a lack of ancient dangers on my maps. I've been playing large hills and mountainous, size 275x275, temperate forest. I've used dev mode to turn off fog to check if I haven't found one after a while of tunneling after noticing the lack.
Some experience with new trap rules. While they are great, there is one thing: larger animals are springing trap, got their leg cut off, wander away and bleed out there. Since they wander away from home area around traps, they are forbidden by default. So if you are using traps you have to regularly check for forbidden corpses.
Also, why no auto-rearm by default?
Pawns are still trying to avoid stepping into armed traps if possible.
Pawns in animal-intensive areas are now another source of stress for cleaners since they have to clean a lot of blood there. Also, a fire around them is usually safe to ignore, but it can't be configured as well.
Quote from: Call me Arty on July 05, 2018, 04:02:53 PM
Finally, I miss the old, round silver. Now I'm just getting a snotty-tissue/forgotten-popcorn-under-the-couch vibe. The old round design kinda made it seem more refined, valuable. The silver we have now looks like it's begging to be made into a weapon or loaded into a cannon, not set as a global currency.
Snotty-tissue... lol! I'd have to agree with you and the many others that posted about silver so far. Old round design is definitely more pleasing to the eyes.
Hi Tynan,
Great updates so far! I would like to ask few things, if I may.
I'm playing on Polish version, at least used to, it seems that the 1.0 changed some variables/definitions system and there are quite a few bugs now in the PL version of the game. I've made a Imgur album showing the most apparent ones:
https://imgur.com/a/JOZ7YKm
I've generated the translation report from the main menu, which can be found here:
https://paste.ee/r/xgR7j/0
It's just the matter of missing strings, or there's something more to it? I would like to know before I get to help translating. Thanks!
Fresh story.
Got an item stash quest with excellent silver plate armor. Threats: none means ambush of unknown power, and silver armor is totally useless, so I've decided to just ignore it.
I also want to mention the beavers event. I am playing on an arid shrubland (Cassandra Medium, larger medium size map, flat, build .1956, started about 4 builds earlier). Thanks to the beavers incidents I have literally zero trees on the map (except those I planted inside my walled-off base). In an attachment I include a picture of what happened about 30 seconds after beavers entered the map. They rushed my trees I planted there earlier, ate them in a minute, chomped the few cactuses around the map and left.
I think the beavers incident should be toned down for biomes with little wood. Some heavy forest can take it but in my case it basically ensures I have no wild-growing wood whatsoever. I guess the point is to hunt them down but there is so many of them that I could have killed just a few anyway. And I don't want to run across the map chasing beavers while crops need to be harvested, animals tamed, food cooked, etc.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I have not played on the most recent build, but I played on the previous build, Cassandra, Crashland, Rough/Hard, Small Hills, Temperate Forest. Some points and thoughts.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 05, 2018, 04:11:22 PM
Some experience with new trap rules. While they are great, there is one thing: larger animals are springing trap, got their leg cut off, wander away and bleed out there. Since they wander away from home area around traps, they are forbidden by default. So if you are using traps you have to regularly check for forbidden corpses.
Animals marked as To Hunt don't become forbidden when they die that way.
I feel like doors should have Sharp Armor. It doesn't make sense that a fox or rabbit scratching can seriously damage a door, but a deer kicking it definitely would. That would cover some of the issues with doors, without requiring doors to have too much hp.
I would like to request a small, UI feature that would help me and help anyone streaming Rimworld. Could the mod "Fahrenheit AND Celsius" get included in the game as another menu option for temperature? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937759575 (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937759575)
It would be great if we could assign colors to factions on the world map, in case the colors assigned at map creation are difficult to tell apart (Speaking as a person with Red-Green colorblindness)
Right-click prioritizing something like a bed also makes the pawn prioritize smoothing stone floor under bed once the bed is done. Bug?
In tundra environment irl, large animals like yaks or reindeer regularly dig through the snow to eat the grass beneath. If it wouldn't break the balance, it would be cool if de-leafed (cold) grass was still edible for a smaller amount of nutrition.
Quote from: Tynan on July 05, 2018, 01:40:23 PM
Simplified rules for trap springing. They now never spring on you or allies, and always spring on anyone else.
Do traps spring on neutral traders? Or are they considered "allies" for the purposes of traps?
Quote from: Tynan on July 05, 2018, 01:40:23 PM
Predators no longer hunt humanlikes.
If they don't hunt human-likes, maybe they should automatically trigger manhunter at a certain hunger/malnutrition level to cover desperation? It would give an alert like any other manhunter event, but would add realism without dangerous surprises.
In my experience, manhunting animals will attack doors without seeing colonists, but only if they go from No Target to targeting a pawn nearby that has no path to reach them. They regularly choose to target a pawn not visible due to walls and doors though. I just assumed this was them "smelling" or "hearing" a person nearby, such that they would try to go through the door. If there is any path to that pawn though, they will try to path all the way around your base and through your killbox rather than attack the door. (They would normally lose interest before getting all the way around, but if you keep the targetted pawn mirroring them inside the wall, they will keep going around to the killbox)
Quote from: Madman666 on July 05, 2018, 04:30:27 PM
Big thanks for clarifying this. But, damn, worldmap events, where you don't have any defenses of whatsoever, scaling with your colony's wealth for some reason? I don't see the reasoning behind such a decision. At least with your homebase its clear - you have more wealth, you have more means to defend yourself - turrets, traps, sandbags and strategically positioned cover. But out there in the wilderness all you have is your colonist, his armor and his weapon + maybe some mediocre cover like a tree.
I believe there could be 2 different scaling factors: one, scaling with colony wealth, for events where player has second move and can prepare — like player would decide what to take for raiding an outpost knowing how many enemies there are, and another one, scaling with caravan wealth/strength/size for events where enemy has second move — like ambushes, where it's enemy who prepares for what he will attack and player can not.
Because if my base is covered with golden statues and plasteel beds doesn't mean that raiders should send an army for a few people and a muffolo. Like player wouldn't waste tons of food sending dozen of armed to the teeth war machines for 2-3 tribals at an outpost.
Got a bulk trader caravan visiting me. They were happy to buy several tons of raw meat from me. I'm not sure what they would do with it, but I was happy to give several more tons as a gift.
Quote from: Kubouch on July 05, 2018, 04:50:00 PM
I also want to mention the beavers event. I am playing on an arid shrubland (Cassandra Medium, larger medium size map, flat, build .1956, started about 4 builds earlier). Thanks to the beavers incidents I have literally zero trees on the map (except those I planted inside my walled-off base). In an attachment I include a picture of what happened about 30 seconds after beavers entered the map. They rushed my trees I planted there earlier, ate them in a minute, chomped the few cactuses around the map and left.
I think the beavers incident should be toned down for biomes with little wood. Some heavy forest can take it but in my case it basically ensures I have no wild-growing wood whatsoever. I guess the point is to hunt them down but there is so many of them that I could have killed just a few anyway. And I don't want to run across the map chasing beavers while crops need to be harvested, animals tamed, food cooked, etc.
Make eating trees really tiring so the beavers have to sleep every time they take out a tree. That'd slow them down enough that maybe we could actually do something about them. As it is, they chew their way across the map before I can even catch up to them with hunters.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 05, 2018, 04:57:50 PM
I believe there could be 2 different scaling factors: one, scaling with colony wealth, for events where player has second move and can prepare — like player would decide what to take for raiding an outpost knowing how many enemies there are, and another one, scaling with caravan wealth/strength/size for events where enemy has second move — like ambushes, where it's enemy who prepares for what he will attack and player can not.
Because if my base is covered with golden statues and plasteel beds doesn't mean that raiders should send an army for a few people and a muffolo. Like player wouldn't waste tons of food sending dozen of armed to the teeth war machines for 2-3 tribals at an outpost.
Exactly. Well, we don't know for a fact what is this special factor that differentiates regular colony raids from caravan ambushes, but your point is exactly what i was trying to say. Scaling ambush on 5 guys with a few muffalo based on a huge city with gold, plasteel and jade everywhere is not right. At all.
50:50 chance to manhunter for wargs seems a bit high in practice. Randy hard. My handler got manhuntered 3 times before I decided it was just easier to tame bears, lynx, and timber wolves and eat the wargs.
Funny story: some cargo pods landed on a bear right in front of some raiders. The raiders switched a.i. to "standing" for a second, as if to say, "lolwhat?"
One of the raiders also probably should have just stayed home.
[attachment deleted due to age]
My melee specialist just got her leg shot off by friendly fire from a pawn in direct proximity. Apparently, it is not safe anymore to cover shooters this way.
Quote from: Tass237 on July 05, 2018, 04:50:36 PM
If they don't hunt human-likes, maybe they should automatically trigger manhunter at a certain hunger/malnutrition level to cover desperation? It would give an alert like any other manhunter event, but would add realism without dangerous surprises.
I like that idea. It's better than completely disabling predators from hunting humans.
On a side note: https://imgur.com/a/QF2YMdH
I've had two polar bears and a cougar bond to the doctors tending their wounds but haven't had any large animals bond to their handlers.
I specifically try to assign certain pawns to handling in hopes of establishing bond between the animal/handler but so far the doctors have had more luck.
Also, are animals able to bond to someone else once their previously bonded pawn has died? Whiskers the cougar bonded to Elsie while she was tending to his wounds but she died last month after bravely tanking 5 wargs during a manhunter event.
Quote from: Serina on July 05, 2018, 05:22:53 PM
Also, are animals able to bond to someone else once their previously bonded pawn has died? Whiskers the cougar bonded to Elsie while she was tending to his wounds but she died last month after bravely tanking 5 wargs during a manhunter event.
Wouldn't that potentially cause problems with the Resurrection Serum, since an animal can (IIRC), only be bonded to one individual?
can we get a button for smoothing walls on the wall itself just like the mining one?
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on July 05, 2018, 02:51:21 PM
About deadfall traps never springing on you or allies: new meta for bases guys! in case you have tons of steel to spend.
(https://i.imgur.com/bWuPbGK.png)
I wonder if IEDs work similarly. Maybe explosives need a strategy, but EMP ones will counter mechanoids for sure.
And predators are passive now. Once there are no animals they could hunt for, they'll stand there until a new proper animal spawns. And when you attack them, they don't go manhunter for 100% chance anymore. They'll fight back until you flee, then they'll leave you alone. I wish this was a thing only in peaceful difficulty.
This... Is exactly what i imagined would happen the moment i saw that trap change lol, but didn't want to mention it till i tried it because of theorycrafting. With no need to stagger them so pawns can get through, every passage is just a death trap. SAD! Something needs to change, but i have no idea what. It was really annoying when pawns or pets would accidentally trigger them, but this is actually worse. I preferred to actually avoid using traps before this too except in emergencies because i felt they were a bit strong and not fun, maiming or killing enemies without anymore input from you than placing them decades ahead of time.
Maybe a way to make traps more impactful and interactive but having far fewer somehow? Cost more?
Perhaps have some kind of small game trap to catch food like old school fur trapers, would help a lot with early game when you are too weak from starting out, injury, or something else to risk a hunt, and to keep rats out of your food supply. Maybe it even roots them in place like a bear trap!
And a lowtech trap for any humans and/or larger animals. Deadfall could work for that, but still the issue of spamming them in narrow corridors without fear of friendly fire with their current changes.
Splitting into 2 kinds of traps could also cut back on large amounts of dead animals around the map from your traps in critter dense biomes.
And i have somehow never been attacked by a random wild predator out of hunger without a manhunter even! Typically the only big preds i have played with are Panthers and the odd wolf. And i like the second to biggest map size, so that could have something to do with it, an abundance of food. Ive done jungle my last few runs so its crawling with critters. And critter corpses... Cobras are a fkn menace, the map is always littered with monkey, rat, chinchillas, and the odd tortoise corpses:P They killed a baby panther of mine, and probably 5 of my baby alpacas... Constantly sneaking into my base to eat my critters whenever i look away. I actually kinda like it, its realistic:P
I'm still staggering traps mostly: they reduce movement, and with sufficient enemy traffic trap # matters more than trap density.
Not to say that cant be useful.
Also, item stash no threats 13 advanced components. yuuuuuuuuumy
Quote from: Dargaron on July 05, 2018, 05:27:06 PM
Wouldn't that potentially cause problems with the Resurrection Serum, since an animal can (IIRC), only be bonded to one individual?
Ah, didn't even think about Resurrection Serums and how it would affect multiple bonds. I've never seen an animal bond to more than one person, was just wondering if it was possible at all.
Quote from: Serina on July 05, 2018, 05:22:53 PM
Quote from: Tass237 on July 05, 2018, 04:50:36 PM
If they don't hunt human-likes, maybe they should automatically trigger manhunter at a certain hunger/malnutrition level to cover desperation? It would give an alert like any other manhunter event, but would add realism without dangerous surprises.
I like that idea. It's better than completely disabling predators from hunting humans.
Yes please! Most people used mods to alert them to predators hunting colonists anyways.
Just updated my save to the most recent build, i'm having trouble keeping all the animals butchered. there isn't enough grass on my map, coastal mountains, river and half year of growing. This trap change made it so they path into my kill box to eat grass and die in the process. Nobody hunts any more. If anything the animals should sense danger based on visible corpses, unnatural structures, the fact that nothing leaves the death box... It's just unrealistic at this point.
I'm suggesting adding different levels of traps for different sizes of things. traps that catch things alive, then require hunters or animal handlers, bear traps made of steel, pitfall traps for large animals, perhaps some scifi goo bomb trap.
the catch all build 400 deadfalls out of stone defence is a tiny bit too strong right now.
edit: after 30 days of picking corpses out of my traps a huge sapper wave came with 21 guns vs my 4 guns and 5 recurve bows. they all had armor/shield belts too. i guess having endless meat made my colony suddenly rich. Everyone died horribly.
Thanks for the sapper raid fix, I had plenty of game-ending sapper runs that I would have survived had they actually run home when half of them were downed/killed.
Noticed something probably unintended — steel mortars weight significantly less than ingredients needed to make one or that can be obtained deconstructing it. It motivates to transfer large batches of steel in form of mortars and there is no drawback to send constructed mortars via drop pods instead of resources to construct them on-site.
It even lighter than mini-turrets.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Regarding animals hunting colonists, about a week ago I was about to post about how I lost a colonist to a bear without knowing it happened, and that my boar ate her head (lol), and about how earlier in the game I saw one of my pawns running and escaping from an animal with no warning. I had 2 takaways from this, that a) a pawn could run away, and b) the one that died was doing exploratory mining and was trapped- so it was my fault, not the game's. So, next time be more prepared when working away from the base right? A warning would have been nice though. Still, a good chunk of my mishaps come from my own lack of paranoia and preparedness as opposed to unfair game mechanics.
Animals hunting livestock is good to have still.
Heya quick field report, this happened yesterday, before latest patch, Phoebe Hard on temperate hilly with small river biome.
So I've finally got a sapper raid, and it was refreshing since I was literally only getting mech raids (so kudos for that). On my first attempt i was caught by surprise and as they went to attack my unprotected wall, I tried to flank them from behind, but they just kept pushing and wreaked havoc inside the base with my non fighting pawns. Attached picture was my second attempt (because why not), and this time I prepared positioning properly (very quickly microing mind you), they broke two holes in the wall but couldn't break through. Ryu there in the middle is my melee powerhouse, I was in doubt about the combat system changes, but being a bloodlust with plasteel sword + power claw really made him a beast, plus the combination of plasteel plate + shield belt to protect him on the crossfire, there really is a lot more to the system then it meets at first glance and I'm glad to say its pretty satisfying. The raiders had a couple of miniguns and they pretty intimidating, and indeed be pretty dangerous had not been taken care quickly. My greatest surprise was having the raiders, after unsuccessfully trying to breach, go for the other entrance which was now only protected by an auto-cannon, it caught me by surprise and I had to quickly scramble to send forces there, the cannon was destroyed. At this time they did not flee at all, which again, kudos for already fixing.
Now second picture is how the temperate forest looks like, 5 years in in the summer of jugust, mind you yesterday so before changes to grass growth. It looks half alright I'd say, parts of the map are green while parts where barren like picture. It feels somewhat natural, I'm able to let my animals graze for most of the year without worrying about it. Trees also starting to look alright, their tendency to spawn on rocky terrain seem to be fixed. Something that feels strange though, is that throughout most of the year there are lots, and I mean a ton of animals all around, and I mean free hunt all year, with only a toxic fallout being really a threat. Comparing this with older versions of the game, I'd say we always have a lot of meat in the freezer with vegetables being the bottleneck, since crops take a lot longer to grow, and we practically have nearly nothing wild to harvest anymore, but still plenty of wildlife all around. My suggestion to this though, is instead of fiddling with plant growth, tone down wild life amount quite a bit, so naturally there would be quite a lot more grass around, plus put wild harvesting back on the menu it would also be nice to see more wild plants besides berry/agave (and of course make wildlife quantity depend on map size).
As another side story, this raid left me three survivors, which was quite refreshing, but they were garbage and thus ended up as organ farms, so I've finally got some replacement lungs for my people. That plus butchering some corpses for my livestock feed really pushed my people over the edge, through a dreadful broken cycle, it was a pretty rough week but they pulled through. However this led to a couple of house arrests which I was pretty glad how it worked out, firstly because on both cases, I was able to peacefully arrest without fight ensuing before things got worse. My first arrest was a druggie, which worked out because she was catatonic and going through withdraw anyway, the second surprise was being able to just release the other colonist after going through her rough period. So basically you can just release prisoner back into colony, so you don't need to re-recruit them and they won't just walk out anymore (I don't know when this was fixed, but it was nice touch regardless).
Now a final story about caravaning, this happened a couple of days ago though.What happened is that I've sent a convoy out with a double mission, of getting an item stash and mining a jade deposit. Everything went somewhat smoothly, even though there were some injuries and I had to put up temporary camps (both threats were manhunting animals). However I've ended up with +- 900 jade, which equates to roughly more than 450kg of jade. so no way I would be bringing everything back in my 5 pawn caravan. I've ended up needing to transport pod quite a lot of resources, so they could build up another 4 transport pods (plus launchers and fuel) so they could send everything back home, and still walk the way back. this seemed like quite the hefty investment to me, though possible still worth it, specially considering end price of crafted jade art, though I'm not sure jade weight like that is even intended (the 1/10 change perhaps). But anyway, after doing this another "rescue mission" spawned just by my caravan's path, but this time it showed the danger of 10 sleeping mechs, which was not worth it. In some way, giving the exact threat amount I felt took away from the randomness and experience, and discouraging even trying. It would be best to only have a rough estimate, and even then only size up foreign threats to only about half of the colony's strength, since most of the time you should only be going with at most half colony anyway.
And holy crap sorry for writing this wall of text, I just got going with it, here a
tl;dr summary:
- Testing out combat, both melee and ranged felt really satisfying.
- Sappers really got me by surprise, and their flanking felt smart.
- Arresting and releasing your own colonist works properly.
- Reduce overall animal count on map instead of buffing plant growth
- Also another vote to revert predators attacking pawns, I had no problem with that yet, and it should also be affected by the above.
- Having the exact threat count on missions is discouraging, only a rough approximate should be enough, plus, sizing that up to about half colony would feel right.
- Seems like Jade (and possibly other minerals) have their harvest quantities and/or weight off.
- Having at least some steel on event maps should be a thing, so that its a least feasible to transport pod back.
- Time limit on mining missions is alright, but it should be a long one at least, about an year in average.
- Same goes aggressive faction camps, they should also have a time limit, but a long one, for those cases where you just don't want to bother with some.
- Food poisoning should also be somewhat random, it feels that when conditions meet, people always get poisoned in groups. (current mechanics led me to third picture, which feels like I had no option.
- The change to wimp is welcome, but still not near enough, most things still perma down some of these guys, like fourth picture.
- Drafted pawns wont act on things outside of their allowed area, like flicking switch or putting out fires, the draft should override this.
- The "guilty prisoner" stat doesn't seem to be applying properly, and it feels somewhat short (unless it scales with how much damage they've caused.
- Breakdown rate is a bit alarming, feels like something breaks every couple of days, result is it ends up being a drag on components with no way to counter.
- Shift click on priorities should ignore non-assigned colonist, eg left/right click to bulk adjust priorities.
- The only thing that still keeps me using manual priorities is the occasional haul/clean micro, there needs to be a better solution, and I agree that a "cleanup" schedule time would work.
- There is some excessive hauling going on, they will tidy up stockpile even when its not needed, and crafters will always drop at an empty space instead of existing pile. This relates to the above since it keeps them from cleaning.
- Click and drag on the work tab would be a nice QoL addition, eg: untick and drag to remove jobs from a lot of people at the same time.
- Context sensitive scrolling on the left side panel. eg: storage, pawn tabs.
[attachment deleted due to age]
The jungle is still barren.
1.0 freshly generated jungle: https://i.imgur.com/zTpSrC9.jpg
0.18 freshly generated jungle: https://i.imgur.com/UJqgPNO.jpg
In the older version, every fertile tile was occupied by some kind of vegetation. Now, no less than half is just bare. In fact, flora density of current jungle is somewhere around that of 0.18 boreal forest: https://i.imgur.com/KF91JoC.jpg
Predators no longer hunt humanlike.......
I mean, I think we wanted a strong game pause notification letter for this event, not just a casual elimination of a mechanic. Now winter hunting/ doing stuff outdoors is not a risk! Mod pwease!
Quote from: Jstank on July 05, 2018, 07:23:06 PM
Predators no longer hunt humanlike.......
I mean, I think we wanted a strong game pause notification letter for this event, not just a casual elimination of a mechanic. Now winter hunting/ doing stuff outdoors is not a risk! Mod pwease!
Yeah this was an odd choice on Tynan's part that I don't understand. Predators, like Grizzlies and Timber Wolves should make me frightened to be out alone...
ruined a lot of the mood of the map for me too. I'm just not feeling like we're in wilderness anymore...
BRING THEM BACK!!!
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on July 05, 2018, 02:51:21 PM
And predators are passive now. Once there are no animals they could hunt for, they'll stand there until a new proper animal spawns. And when you attack them, they don't go manhunter for 100% chance anymore. They'll fight back until you flee, then they'll leave you alone. I wish this was a thing only in peaceful difficulty.
I'll second this concern. The dangerous predatory animals was an exciting part of play. And, sure it added some micro (I had to check hunger levels) but, it added to the mystique and sense of danger from the land itself. This may be quite the overhaul, to pull off ... It'd be a nice "wishlist item" to see varying behaviors (and previous, challenging behaviors) in higher difficulties. Thanks for everything guys. You're killing it.
I feel like there are too little healer mech serums around. A single one should be thrown in regularly with a request/stash/camp, simply because there is so many permanent injuries and ailments in the game you have to make choices anyway - but I usually don't even get one of these during a normal playthrough (by normal I mean I take my sweet time to take off).
Also in general I feel like there is too little quests in general. I would prefer there being more than you can realistically do, so you can choose which ones you want to do first. It also makes balancing the rewards much easier, because data is a lot more relevant.
What I'm trying to say is - if there was like 10-20 quests in your proximity at all times, covering most rewards, it would quickly become apparent what people go for the most and which ones are just too bad to risk anything for.
I want to add to that trap critique. You can just spam them now without worrying which makes them incredibly stronger and it is just weird that friendlies walk over them and nothign bad happens. It makes it easier and it may be annoying for some people. For me it was just normal that building traps has the risk that they hurt the wrong pawns. That's how weapons work. Same with firendly fire, that's also annoying, but I hope that won't be removed too.
Now a bit story time:
I'm around 100 days in (boreal, small hills, cass intense, naked, last patch and this) and I currently get caravan requests like crazy. I have 5 open requests and one finished a few days ago. I like that there is more, but this seems a bit too much or at least I would like to see more diversity. Most quest are either "give 20 [random apparel]" or "give 10 [random weapon/grenade]". There is much room to improve this:
- Mix different types of apparel and weapons
- Request furniture too
- Change the minimum quality (so they want 4 excellent duster or 1 masterwork shirt)
- Request specific material types (only bluefur duster, or at least only leather/cloth/devilstrand)
When I though about the new sniper turret, I thought about a high precision turret. It turns out to be not and in a raid, if it hits or not is just random with 14% chance to hit at max range. It has very high damage and fire rate, but this is not what I expected with a sniper turret. I got a raid where it hit once or twice before the enemy was in close range and with the minimum range it doesn't work at all in close combat. That could be prevented by clever positioning, but the weird feeling from a the low precision is still there. I would like it to be slower, but more precise. And maybe a bit more range than the autoturret or less for the autoturret, so they differ more.
In my last game a few days ago, one of my colonists actually got hunted by a cougar. I thought it was fun and a nice (and kinda realistic) element of the game. It created a little part of the story. Now this is gone and it makes me a bit sad. I want my story to be created by things like this. An incident that happens because of the right circumstances on the map and maybe that is somewhat my fault because I didn't foresee and care for it. Not just a random event that tells "now your story contains plague".
Being at diseases I would really like to see improvements here. I know that is a lot of work. This game I got my first random disease a day 5 or 6 (no sickly pawn) and both my colonists got fiberous mechanites. Around day 13 I got another disease and one colonist and the prisoner got sensory mechanites. At least these diseases weren't really bad ones, but it was just so random. Then it was quiet for long, I don't know exactly but around day 50 I got flu on half of my colonists. There could be a small system for each disease that makes it more unique and you have a chance to influence it. For example flu starts on just a few colonists and they spread it to people being in the same room. So you can just influence it by managing where colonists are or you just don't care about it, get a flu epidemic and fight it with more meds.
After the changes for random pawn death on down, I can get way less prisoners. In fact I have only gotten one in the last half of the game and I only had 5 colonists most of that time. Also that raiders from a refugee chase always die and never just get downed feels kinda weird. I had two refugee chases where that happened and after that I was curious if that was just bad luck or not, so looked at the code and saw how it works now (but I won't post it here to prevent other from theorizing around it). I think the downing system in general is now better than it was before. It's just that this felt a bit too extreme.
In winter I let my freezer door open to safe power and as a result, a large amount of the animals run there to get my meals. This is kinda realistic but from a game perspective, it was just free meat since my cook could just make a short break and kill the animals. Not really a fun way to hunt and this is even worse now that animals trigger traps too. I like the idea that I can make animal traps now with a bait to be more effective, but it can be abused way too much.
Same goes for manhunters. Since they walk around my base when I'm inside, they just get in the traps and the problem solved itself with enough traps. Earlier I had to fight them with my colonists or I have to stay inside until they are gone. Now I can also let the traps do the work (or a part of it) without a downside. I got a manhunter pack of 9 or 10 lynx recently. I stayed inside for the night and in the morning a few of them were dead or downed and I could kill the rest. And I have 17 traps, so nothing really impressive or hard to archive in the midgame. (I could even stay until they are gone if they are too powerful and I still get the loot of the ones my traps killed. (Or just door cheese.))
Grenate raids are fun to fight. I tend to say more bad stuff since that is obviously what I like to get changed, but this is just something I had to write, since it was one of the nice raids I remember from the first half of this game.
I was surprised when I tried to sell simple meals to a city. I knew caravans don't buy them, but that cities also don't is weird. And caravans still buy meat which rots even faster than meals is kinda weird too.
I never need to research mortars (early), because I can just wait for the first siege and get my first two steel mortars from them. It's nice and convenient, but also makes the system a bit questionable. For mortars of better materials I would still need to research them, although there isn't much reason for it since (I belive) material doesn't affect cooldown or accuracy.
To add something to the trade request: Instead of a simple offer it could be an actual request. So when they ask you have a day to respond if you do it or not. If not, it is gone and if you decide to do it, you get reputation loss when you can't fulfill the deal in the given time.
Winter in this region reaches mostly -10°C but went down to -20°C some days and during the cold snap in late fall. (I also got a cold snap in both falls around the same time. Probably just luck, but it felt a bit like this is how the climate just is in this region, which is nice). What disturbs me is that I still have no need for good clothing or wool clothing. Pawns are mostly inside and when they are outside to haul something, a short time in the cold is no problem. Half of my colonists didn't even wear an outer layer clothing since I traded my dusters and all leather in the fall for antigrans and vanometrics in a request. So I wish clothing would be more relevant for the temperature and also that some come with a (small) tradeoff for movement speed and work speed. (This applies to plate armor too). it doesn't have to be much to have a bit impact, it would just gives the system a lot more depth. And the stronger impact of temperatures would make me to actually think about which colonist need what clothing in what biome/season instead of just giving everyone the same stuff every game.
And parka should protect legs too if duster does.
That's for now what came into my mind after playing for half of the day. I'm really bad at writing more about what happended at my colony because I forget a lot and the stuff that bothers me sticks longer. Also It's 2 am here now, I'm really tired and I already needed an hour to write this in a somewhat decent english while being half asleep, so forgive the probably 100 mistakes I made.
Quote from: Lanilor on July 05, 2018, 07:45:15 PM
I want to add to that trap critique. You can just spam them now without worrying which makes them incredibly stronger and it is just weird that friendlies walk over them and nothign bad happens. It makes it easier and it may be annoying for some people. For me it was just normal that building traps has the risk that they hurt the wrong pawns. That's how weapons work. Same with firendly fire, that's also annoying, but I hope that won't be removed too.
Friendly fire needs a nerf too, actually. Because currently protecting shooters with melee specialists, while heavily enforced, is also very dangerous because it puts melee under crossfire.
I'm going to + 1 on the trap rebalance. I think that it was fine the way it was. There should definitely be risk involved with using them.
What if traps only triggered on entities (any or maybe only hostile) that were under attack? Sure, anyone can see the danger and carefully navigate it under normal circumstances. But doing that is much trickier in a stressful situation where you're dodging bullets or a bludgeon. It would change traps from being totally passive defense to a semi-active one that enhances an active defense. It would potentially make trap corridors less viable (and thus remove them from the grand balancing scheme). You could engage hostiles with a pawn at the end, but you'd likely need multiple pawns with lines of fire to endanger multiple hostiles with the trap corridor.
I'm not sure how I'd like unaligned wildlife to interact with traps. People have mentioned making inadvertent meat farms by accidentally baiting wildlife with farms or grass, which seems undesirable.
It'd be a pretty dramatic functional change, and I'm not entirely satisfied with this proposal, but trap hallways (which seem to represent the majority of their use) always just seemed like a cheesy way to downsize raids. I wouldn't classify them as particularly 'fun', mostly they were just 'really darned useful if you don't like getting shot'.
Quote from: Tynan on July 05, 2018, 01:40:23 PM
Build is up!
----
...
Simplified rules for trap springing. They now never spring on you or allies, and always spring on anyone else. Deadfall traps can now catch wild animals.
...
One "issue" I've run into is Thrumbos being downed by deadfall traps.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Speaking of thrumbos, it's still pretty easy to kill them under the right circumstances. Probably not a bad thing, but this was pretty amusing.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Oblitus on July 05, 2018, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: Lanilor on July 05, 2018, 07:45:15 PM
I want to add to that trap critique. You can just spam them now without worrying which makes them incredibly stronger and it is just weird that friendlies walk over them and nothign bad happens. It makes it easier and it may be annoying for some people. For me it was just normal that building traps has the risk that they hurt the wrong pawns. That's how weapons work. Same with firendly fire, that's also annoying, but I hope that won't be removed too.
Friendly fire needs a nerf too, actually. Because currently protecting shooters with melee specialists, while heavily enforced, is also very dangerous because it puts melee under crossfire.
Maybe we should remove friendly fire? Or weapons in general because they are dangerous?
Sorry for being sarcastic, but this game once was something special because it was dangerous and risky and a lot is going wrong and not optimal at all in your games and that is an important part of it. Now it's getting more and more causal and friendly and my colonies are rainbow-unicorn-camps where everyone is happy and get everything they want. Of cause that is also because I improve, but you can't deny the changes rimworld is going through. There is a lot good changing and improving. Some of these makes it loose its original individuality and style.
I never had problems with friendly fire since there are enough ways to minimize risk. Good positioning, repositioning, flanking, shield belts stay near melees or just simply not fire on the last enemy that all my melees are already killing.
Quote from: Greep on July 05, 2018, 08:13:01 PM
Speaking of thrumbos, it's still pretty easy to kill them under the right circumstances. Probably not a bad thing, but this was pretty amusing.
I notices that too. I got 2 thrumbo events in the last game and they are easily killable with a single pawn with cheese. But even in a "normal" way, they are easy to kill which makes them loose their style. Not "this is such a mighty and dangerous and special creature", just a big white rhino.
People will complain if the thrumbo gets a buff and it's op to the point that it can't be cheesed and requires a good amount of pawns.
Just got a melee sappers raid from tribals. But my pawns are smart enough to make embrasures in walls to shoot staying out of melee reach, so it was an utter failure - they were shot like dummies in shooting range. Sure, you may think it has not enough drama from my side, but it is what you should expect to happen when a bunch of dirty savages is trying to attack a fortified base.
Quote from: SpookCrow on July 05, 2018, 08:32:04 PM
People will complain if the thrumbo gets a buff and it's op to the point that it can't be cheesed and requires a good amount of pawns.
Actually, that is exactly what happens now. It is just too dangerous to directly attack them and people are "cheesing" it.
https://imgur.com/a/sruXgXI
Psychic ship with two centipedes, two lancers and two scythers.
I made a pretty big mistake that caused the deaths of my animals which could have probably been avoided.
I released them too soon before the mechs were stunned by emp. I kind of panicked and hit release on the animals as soon as the centipedes started spraying, which was a huge mistake on my part.
I need more melee pawns w/ shield belt + power armor. Friendly fire was more of an issue for Beth (my only melee pawn w/ shield belt) since she mostly sustained bruises and a crack from the centipede's weapon.
Edit: I personally have never had a problem with thrumbo hunting (without cheese). I use two pawns with short bows, max range from the thrumbo and attack at the same time. When the thrumbo becomes manhunter, I use one pawn to kite the thrumbo around stone chunks while the other pawn is continuously shooting. Worked for me every time even on NB. You can do the same with two thrumbos but it requires more pawns.
I've also tried the "cheese" tactic of hiding behind doors, but found it actually wasted more time than necessary. For me, it was much more efficient to kite the thrumbo around. I have had some really close calls where the thrumbo was literally right behind my pawn, but managed to snag it on to some chunks which helped to slow its movement. I feel as though thrumbos are much easier to hunt now than in b18 because sometimes they flee while you're shooting them, which allows you to deal more damage, in turn affecting the thrumbo's overall movespeed for when it does turn manhunter.
I'm not sure I'll ever need to hunt again.
In fact, I may need a bigger freezer for all this free meat. And rearming the traps is now a full time job.
(Note, they seem to be going through here to get to the grass inside my walls, because there is so little grass on the map in general)
[attachment deleted due to age]
>Downed refugees can no longer spawn with bleeding wounds (so they don't die while the player is trying to rescue them).
I don't understand this. There should be stories about the one who died before he could be reached or whatever. It's your problem if you can't keep track of events, not the game's.
Also I am bewildered by the hunting animals change. Seems dull. :-\
Quote from: Tass237 on July 05, 2018, 04:50:36 PM
I would like to request a small, UI feature that would help me and help anyone streaming Rimworld. Could the mod "Fahrenheit AND Celsius" get included in the game as another menu option for temperature? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937759575 (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937759575)
Speaking of begging for unit options, can we have a pounds setting in the menu? Pleez?
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=38197.0
Quote from: Injured Muffalo on July 05, 2018, 09:11:13 PM
>Downed refugees can no longer spawn with bleeding wounds (so they don't die while the player is trying to rescue them).
I don't understand this. There should be stories about the one who died before he could be reached or whatever. It's your problem if you can't keep track of events, not the game's.
If game says you have 7 days - you expect them to survive for 7 days, not die in a few hours.
Alrighty, been playing a decent game (3 years in) Cassandra Hard, traditional start.
A few observations/issues:
- I'm playing on a plains map, but it appears infestation frequency is unaffected by this fact. I've gotten 3 infestations so far, once a year, all in the same one room that was built over an outcropping I mined out. It's kind of ridiculous that if you build a full mountain base or a full plains base with a single room where an outcropping used to be you get the same infestation chance. I do love the infestation warning now though, feels a lot less unfair.
- Doors appear to be impossible to light, the door square is always 0% brightness even when both sides are lit. This causes a slowdown on going through doors that seems... wrong. I thought it was just door opening but then I put in wood and steel autodoors and they still slowed down, and I realized that was the cause.
- This has always been true, but wild animals can open doors and wander through all your defenses, then proceed to eat your stored food or your young animals. In this playthrough I had a cold snap, and about 20 rats, squirrels bunnies and raccoons all ran into my base and ate my stored hay. I had to manually kill them all. I've also lost 7 different baby Alpaca and Calves to Mountain Lions, Wargs and Wolves who just wander into my base and then eat them. The first notification I get is that my poor baby animal is being attacked and is usually dead in seconds. Wild animals shouldn't be able to open doors just because they're not currently hostile. The new trap change should help with this a bit hopefully, but it's still really annoying that you can't defend against predators until the last second... so you need to preemptively kill all predatory animals on your map or your baby Alpacas are doomed.
A few things I love:
- Vegetation actually growing back is amazing. 3 years in and my map isn't a wasteland... that's a first.
- The opportunistic hauling and inventory stack consolidating remove a lot of micromanaging.
- The new prosthetics and being able to craft them is really cool. It's made 1 armed people a lot less of a liability early to mid game, as you can get a prosthetic arm pretty quick. And the archotech gear is a great motivator for world questing. I actually spent a lot of time making of all things tribalware, because they wanted 13 of them, and no one was a particularly skilled crafter... so I need to make around 25 before I got 13 good ones. But it was worth it for an archotech eye.
First, thank you Tynan for repairing the doors in such a timely manner. Very appreciated.
TRAPS .. Now with killboxes not being as viable on a non mountain map, I am in a large hill (looks like a small hill) map in the temperate forest. I chose to build with traps outside my base which i have done before. I like to either use traps or turrets rather than both unless I am pulling a colony value over 1 million in wealth. But, back to the point ... Traps are getting hit be every random rat, bunny and boomalope that passes by and when a boomalope hits they are quite expensive to rebuild, especially with the deep drill change.
Personally I liked the random chance of a colonist hitting a trap, to me it balanced the damage they caused. I also liked the fact that some raiders made it past the traps and you actually had to fight.
Also what does this do for taming wild animals, they tend to come closer to your base as you ensue taming at times. If you have traps the taming effort will most likely be over.
Not a fan of the the trap change.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943950911480389900/9FB3FF7AA12E677FEBE860043D6DE2ACBB8AB78A/
Ran into an annoyance of mine that I'm sure nearly everyone agrees with: sculpting tables default to allow steel when they really shouldn't, this is almost never a good idea.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 05, 2018, 09:17:53 PM
Quote from: Injured Muffalo on July 05, 2018, 09:11:13 PM
>Downed refugees can no longer spawn with bleeding wounds (so they don't die while the player is trying to rescue them).
I don't understand this. There should be stories about the one who died before he could be reached or whatever. It's your problem if you can't keep track of events, not the game's.
If game says you have 7 days - you expect them to survive for 7 days, not die in a few hours.
Oh, I was thinking of drop pod refugees. nm
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 05, 2018, 09:09:38 PM
I'm not sure I'll ever need to hunt again.
Okay there may be problems with this strategy... :D
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 05, 2018, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 05, 2018, 09:09:38 PM
I'm not sure I'll ever need to hunt again.
Okay there may be problems with this strategy... :D
Use stone traps. They are more durable, cheap to rebuild and steel damage is usually an overkill anyway.
Ended up visiting the item stash for 13 advanced components with "no threats" because I ended up getting an okayish pawn recruit, and it's hard to say no to even 4 advanced components.
As guessed, this basically would not have been worth the risk of a good pawn. Just walked away.
Edit: Also, ghandi? really?
Also, I just realized the only male in the fort is named "happy" 8)
Suggestion: change "threats: none" to "threats: maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe?"
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Oblitus on July 05, 2018, 09:36:27 PM
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 05, 2018, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 05, 2018, 09:09:38 PM
I'm not sure I'll ever need to hunt again.
Okay there may be problems with this strategy... :D
Use stone traps. They are more durable, cheap to rebuild and steel damage is usually an overkill anyway.
Yeah I'm already switching over as they are destroyed :D
I recently received a mechanoodle raid and I found it odd that centipedes used both miniguns and HCB when they are really similar weapons and miniguns are for humans. Have you ever considered removing the minigun centipede and letting him have a HCB instead?
Also I would like to ask how multiple layers of armour work when blocking incoming damage? Is each piece considered separately or are the layers combined into a total armour rating for a body part?
In the past, it is considered separate (first piece reduces, second piece reduces that further), I doubt that would change. It would be weird having like 200% torso sharp resist anyways.
Adjusted outdoors need speeds.
What does this mean?
Just got a mechanoid attack. They were attacking power conduits that are laid under walls. Was sure it is not possible.
Anyone else's fueled stove no longer working?
And yes, the traps thing has gone kablooie on my map. Wow dead animals everywhere... Seems like Tynan made a "theorycrafted" choice and... these are our results?
It's easy to revert recent changes, enjoy the hilarity ;D At least it isn't raining blood like in dwarf fortress ::)
The issue with seasons on permanent summer maps is still around. I am playing a 50/60 day growth temperate Forrest. The player view says permanent summer. The world map says average tep 50 to 62f. I have been notified that I have 5 colonists that will need warm clothes, and it is currently 30f outside at 4am.
Now two days later, it is 75f at 4am. Permanent summer does this a lot.
yeah I got a report on that:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42266.0
Notes from my latest attempt on Naked Brutality Cassandra Hard Permadeath:
World was generated with version 1.0.1951 and survived to today running on 1.0.1954. Many errors were shown when loading after game updates but I have yet to see 1.x crash or corrupt a save and performance has been alright. A minor inconvenience is that my preferred method of launching the game via the Steam notification area menu always starts the 32-bit version - which I quit as soon as possible since I always want to run the 64-bit version.
I spend an embarrassingly long time rerolling before finding a good colonist candidate since I won't accept anyone with severe disabilities, addiction, or terrible traits for this attempt. Finally RNGsus grants me Stephen, the 50-year-old Human Computer with burning passion for shooting and mining. He is Too Smart, Ascetic (great for Naked Brutality), and Super-Immune. The latter is perfect since all my previous attempts at Naked Brutality ended with death due to infection - herbal medicine was never enough for immunity to catch up, but Stephen should have a chance to survive.
Stephen crashes into the Bluetrout Swamp, a temperate swamp featuring a huge river flowing from the north to the New Abeneiro Ocean to the south, and some small hills thanks to the Northern Sharp Fox Mountains directly bordering the area to the east. On the west river bank is a small valley between slate hills with a steam geyser and a 6x10 marble structure which Stephen claims as initial shelter.
Stephen is able to establish basic amenities fairly quickly with amateur construction skill and trains his crafting skill by making awful steel knives until reaching the level 2 skill required to make a poor quality short bow for hunting and fighting off the first few raids. Stephen never bothers burying attackers; corpses get dumped out of sight in a remote area of the swamp where they deteriorate relatively rapidly. Near the end of spring he acquires pants, shirt, and a very nice hyperweave parka from an escape pod survivor. I think there may have been a game bug preventing me from rescuing the survivor - he bled out in the mud - but at least Stephen did not have to be naked any longer.
At the start of summer a raider brings a poor quality autopistol which Stephen equips and gets a lot of use out of (it isn't replaced until the end of the year). A wanderer named Mushinto joins the colony, he is a 47-year-old Bounty Hunter and a Greedy Night Owl. Mushinto's burning passion for social skills makes him the colony negotiator and he also assumes responsibility for cooking despite being entirely uninterested (Stephen is even worse at it).
Summer is spent digging out a well-insulated cryostorage area inside one of the nearby slate hills. The river bank is very irregular and consists almost entirely of mud and rich soil, but there was one spot close to the freezer that could be made to support a watermill generator. My favorite new 1.x feature is reinstallable work benches (I hate wasting resources by deconstruction just because I built something on the wrong spot) but finally being able to smooth rock walls without mods is a close second. With the freezer complete, work begins on an adjoining kitchen and dining room.
Nutrition from hunting is supplemented with berries (which curiously all magically changed color in a game update) and some rice grown on the generous amounts of fertile soil. During the summer Cassandra also blesses the colony with regular cargo pods filled with drugs, including almost an entire stack of medicine which came in handy for treating malaria and flu later.
In fall the colony accepts a refugee chased by a few not very well-armed bandits. Her name is Tzaeru and she is a Steadfast Abrasive Brawler Paramedic, bringing expert medical skills as well as some needed professional experience working with plants (neither Stephen nor Mushinto could grow healroot). Shortly after her arrival a lengthy volcanic winter begins and a cold snap forces everyone to move into the now completed kitchen - it's the only room with heating. Tzaeru is stuck idle inside until the cold snap lifts since she lacks warm clothes, but Stephen's hyperweave parka allows him to work full time outside despite the cold and he is busy building a new hospital/laboratory building next to the kitchen.
Stephen is a professional researcher but can never find time to actually do research due to other critical responsibilities and constant raids from all except one neighboring faction. The colony struggles greatly with mounting a good defense without access to decent firearms or turrets, but somehow our brave trio manages to fight every raid off with just the aforementioned autopistol, short bow, and steel knife. Our luck can't last - Cassandra is not going to keep sending weak bandit bands and natives forever.
At some point in the winter a game update removes the research requirement for bridges, allowing the colony to build a bridge over the huge river. A dozen or so chickens join the colony and I unwisely decide to build a wooden chicken coop on the river bank next to the bridge. I wish I could build more resilient, fire-proof bridges out of stone or steel - this thing is basically built out of fuel! A while after the chicken coop was completed - but before I found a way to feed the chickens and not having them lay eggs all over the map - a 5-man pirate raid arrived from the east, this time with scarier gear. One had an excellent autopistol, two had poor quality revolvers, one had some kind of melee weapon, and one had a good quality incendiary launcher.
Stephen and Mushinto managed to get some shots in while the pirates killed chickens, downing the melee pirate. Tzaeru killed the autopistol guy with her knife on the bridge. A lengthy shootout followed, with several incendiary shots landing on the bridge and near the chicken coop. Eventually the last pirate fell and my badly wounded colonists could focus on trying to quell the big chicken coop conflagration before it spread to the dense vegetation to the south of the colony. The coop, bridge, and nearby farms were a lost cause. Chickens on fire were running all over the place; all of them except one rooster died. The pirate bodies and their weapons were destroyed in the fire, except for the excellent autopistol which could be salvaged as a weapon upgrade for Stephen. Stephen and Tzaeru recovered fully from their wounds but Mushinto got his left eye cut out, leaving him with permanently poor sight.
There is a period with fewer raids allowing the colony to rebuild and recover somewhat. In Septober the second year a new pirate raid arrives, this time seven strong - armed with automatic weapons and frag grenades. With my colony severely outmanned and outgunned, I decide to activate my secret weapon of last resort: the nearby ancient shrine. The plan is to hide behind a two tile thick slate wall built on the west side of the small valley and let the pirates fight with whatever evil lurks within the shrine.
With the pirates closing in from the west, Stephen deconstructs one of the ancient shrine marble walls and starts running towards the slate wall door leading to the colony. It's not very far at all - only eleven tiles - but the ground is marshy and there is dense vegetation impeding movement. Mushinto and Tzaeru are waiting on the other side of the slate wall. Inside the shrine are three ancient cryptosleep caskets, four advanced components, seven luciferium, an orbital power beam targeter, two lancers, and a centipede equipped with a good quality heavy charge blaster.
The mechanoids immediately emerge from the opened shrine, filling the air with charged projectiles. Stephen gets hit by three blaster shots and a lance shot and falls unconscious near the shrine. The pirates arrive and open fire on the mechanoids. Stephen lies in the crossfire and gets hit by three more shots. Mushinto and Tzaeru can only wait and hope for an opportunity to rescue the colony founder. One of the pirates paths around the northern hill, wading in the river and enters the colony from the east. Tzaeru acts as tank using a recently acquired steel club while Mushinto fires arrows at the pirate, who soon succumbs dropping an excellent quality machine pistol.
Meanwhile the pirates on the other side of the wall have killed both lancers and brought the centipede to a sliver of health while losing two of their own. A barrage of charge blaster shots hits a grenadier, downing him. With four of their ranks lost, the remaining pirates flee in panic. The centipede starts moving towards the colony. Mushinto, now equipped with a machine pistol, attempts to provide suppressive fire in cover while Tzaeru tries to rescue Stephen. She almost makes it back but gets killed by a volley of charge shots, dropping Stephen - who dies from blood loss shortly thereafter. Despite his cover, Mushinto gets hit by a charge shot to the torso, falling unconscious. The nearly destroyed but still fully functional centipede proceeds to tear the colony buildings apart while Mushinto bleeds out. GG
The colony lasted for 85 days, reaching a peak wealth of about 23k of which 16k was items.
Can we get "Allow Sowing" on hydroponic basins? That would be neat
Do you think its possible to put again the 3 burst round in the assault rifle?
Hi Tynan, first time poster here. Long time fan of the game, enjoying 1.0.
Wanted to mention that I liked that predatory animals hunted humankind, added tension to the survival element and has caused drama for my settlers many times.
Was playing a fresh game today and noticed a Warg was starting to wonder real close to my poorly defended settlement. Normally this would mean coming up with a solution – usually a hunting party. The last time this happened, my best shooter had his right eye wounded by the predator and developed an extreme infection. Spent the next in game day worried I would have to remove the eye or he might worsen. Fortunately he developed immunity and recovered.
But if he hadn't, my best shooter was going to either die or get his eye excised by his surgeon body purist wife cause of a mishap with a dangerous animal. This is the RimWorld drama that I love.
Knowing it's not going to harm my pawns, meant I didn't have to proactively hunt it down and the tension (and potential story outcomes) wasn't really there anymore. I felt like something was missing cause I didn't have to worry about a predator hanging about the neighbourhood.
That being said I see why the change was made, it was frustrating to lose a pawn cause you didn't notice an angry bear in the corner of the map etc.
I suggest having this toggle back on with medium difficulties or higher? That way it's an optional feature that can be switched off for those who want to focus on peaceful base building.
When I'm playing to survive, I personally enjoy the fact that the environment might kill my colony before raiders do.
I, for one, am really happy that predators aren't hunting my colonists anymore.
I in no way object to the danger predators present! In fact, I'd be all for them hunting.
The problem is the mechanics. In the current (as of B18) release, it's very often a death sentence because you don't know until the panther/wolf/grizzly is eating your colonists' face. Even if you react instantly, it's often physically impossible to rescue them... and if the predator is hunting, it's not just going to down your colonist, it's going to kill and eat him.
It's one of very few things that I just got to the point of instantly save scumming. It would just seem - rarely, for sure! - that a colonist would be going about his business, then just die, and there's nothing I could do about it. That's just not good gameplay.
will my old saves still work when 1.0 is released?
Quote from: Wintersdark on July 06, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
It's one of very few things that I just got to the point of instantly save scumming. It would just seem - rarely, for sure! - that a colonist would be going about his business, then just die, and there's nothing I could do about it. That's just not good gameplay.
Yeah I know what you mean, I've also save scummed due to this exact thing. But it often depended on what kind of gameplay I was looking for in the moment. If I'm in RimWorld Soap Opera Survivor mode, a sudden devastating loss is exactly what I'm looking for.
But I see your point about the gameplay. I've made a suggestion in my post above and others have too - hoping there's a way to balance this out rather than removing it. I have had it previously create some really great moments....
...poor Maske... Maske was eaten by wolves.
I could envision a possible notification:
"One of your colonists is being menaced by X (bear/wolf/lynx)" 5 to 10 seconds before the animal actually attacked. I have no idea if it's feasible to do so from a coding standpoint (time spent on this mechanic vs. end result).
In no way is it a deal-breaker or major issue for me, personally, but I enjoyed quite a few unexpected tangles with wildlife on my first Naked Brutality start. I saw it as in keeping with the game's style: if you don't pay attention to what you're doing, you'll pay for it. I was careless, and sent a couple of colonists into harm's way without checking what was waiting for me, and paid the penalty. Having the "Wildlife" tab there made it super-easy to check, too...especially since all the predators are specifically marked...I just forgot to do it.
I enjoyed that element quite a bit...I thought it was a lot of fun. If it stays gone, that's fine too...but I think it adds flavor to the game.
I feel like Tynan knows himself some of his changes look embarrassing while releasing them and he just intends to get a feedback on this part so he makes sure the final release will be approved by majority.
Predators can, obviously, still hunt your animals. So it's still going to make some interesting stories.
Some changes are indeed experimental.
I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.
I will say that as long as pawn behavior includes occasionally hauling items onto deadfall traps / then ignoring forbid commands to path over said deadfall traps to haul said items to construction jobs, I am very happy that deadfall friendly damage is removed.
I have no problem with punishing 'greedy' trap setting where its clearly unpathable, but pawns should not deliberately do blatantly suicidal things like that outside of mental break behavior. Maybe also some provision for pawn tolerance for pathing through traps, it seems a bit silly that even ~10 tiles path difference will cause a pawn to happily walk over a deadfall instead with risk of permanent brain damage / instant death.
Quote from: PlutoniumJesus on July 05, 2018, 10:58:21 PM
Notes from my latest attempt on Naked Brutality Cassandra Hard Permadeath:
The colony lasted for 85 days, reaching a peak wealth of about 23k of which 16k was items.
This sounds pretty similar to most of my playthroughs. I seem to get to anywhere from 15k to 25k in value before I start getting greatly out gunned and the colony loses.
Quote from: Tynan on July 06, 2018, 01:32:46 AM
Some changes are indeed experimental.
I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.
While I despised having my colonists killed by a hungry polar bear that appeared on the ice sheet all the way across the map, and I definitely save scummed quite a few times due to it, if you bring it back please just give somne sort of warning flag before hand. That's really the only part that made is ultra terrible. We get a warning for a mad animal, a hungry hunter is basically the same thing and keeping track of every single predator on the map is a bit of a silly expectation for a player to have.
Quote from: Tynan on July 06, 2018, 01:32:46 AM
Some changes are indeed experimental.
I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.
Would highly suggest medium and above. I think it should be expected that a predatory creature is a danger to your colonist. I still would like to see a pause notification of the attack. It should really be a raid level notification!
Yes, medium and above seems fair.
For caravans, I would like the ability to see what a location will buy during forming a caravan, so I don't have to close the dialog and select what to take all over again. In 'Choose route', when you click on a location, the button for 'show what will buy' should come up.
If traps are going to hurt pawn again, i would like an option to disarm them beside the option to re-arm them. So we can only arm them when there is a danger coming, like a raid, there is no reason to keep trap activated all the time if it can hurt our own pawn.
And that will give us a way to make some lure trap for hunting, like a 1x1 pemmican storezone, with a deadfall trap on it or around it, to lure wildlife.
30 days into project killbox. Randy extreme, boreal mountains(testing middish economy. Also boreal looks neat :))
Main initial goal is to build a very very short term fort on the outside, and mine out the basic perimeter for the end game fort to make sure there isn't any hidden reveal surprises on the map. Some previous sillynesses and quests were posted before.
Raid #1) 4 extremely ill-equipped raiders which snuck up on me before I got turrets. They were just... so bad. I felt bad for them. None were downed and I was.. thankful to be honest.
#2) a bunch of foxes. surprisingly hard to hit with turrets, so they nearly took one down. Run into my fort with a bit of deadfalls which took two out.
#3) A very large all melee raid of about 12 dudes when following a refugee, a very randy raid. Luckily, a turret exploded in their faces.
#4) A siege half that size with all short ranged weapons which was just sad. Had a good shooter manage to take it down with a rifle before the mortar finished. I somehow missed that one had a frag will sniping them, so he managed to take down a turret when he got too close.
Current fort as it stands below.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Tynan, I've been noticing in your changelogs that you have been trying to eliminate unnecessary micromanagement as much as possible. Thank you for that, by the way, a lot of the changes have been good QoL changes. There's been one small thing that has bothered me through many, many updates to this game though, more-so now that the negatives are more severe than ever: Cabin Fever.
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with the existence of cabin fever and its severity, but I never understood why pawns suffering from it don't just take a walk outside in an unroofed area. I'm not keeping them locked up like rats, nor are they restricted to any particular area. In particular, I think that on their next joy activity, they should just prioritize taking a walk outside or stargazing/cloudwatching/sunwatching/etc if they suffer too severely from a lack of going outside (if area restrictions allow, of course).
I've attached a screenshot of a colony I just started a couple hours ago. The debuff doesn't make much sense, but that's not really what I'm going for here (even if the Trapped Underground thing is a bug). I'm not keeping the pawns locked up under a roof (don't let the toxic fallout fool you, they're still set to Unrestricted access to the map) and they have 5 hours a day of dedicated joy time, so just.... go outside! I don't think in this kind of situation that I should have to draft pawns and drag them outside to stand around and do nothing so they can not be under a roof for a few hours when they are perfectly capable of that on their own accord.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I just finished my 2nd complete play-through of 1.0
Started with build 1946 and finished on build 1954
Storyteller: Cassandra classic
Difficulty: Medium
Map: Large hills with year-round summer
Scenario: Crash landed modified to start with 4 colonists
Total play time: 45 hours 59 min
Final population: 23 colonists
Colonists killed: 3 + 1 severe brain scar
Left on spaceship on day 358
Final colony wealth: 822,248
A few thoughts:
Starting the ship
-This being my 2nd time through 1.0, the significance of the 15 day onslaught after starting the ship was much more influential in everything I did, pretty much from day 1. IMO, having to prepare for and (hopefully) overcome this rather difficult final obstacle pretty much completely solves the issue of feeling like the game never reaches a satisfying conclusion.
I love that surviving the 15 day period is legitimately difficult and the possibility of losing everything in one last epic struggle is real. In all my past play-throughs I just played until I got bored or wanted to try a new base design or try some new mods. Now the game has much more of a center of gravity. If you want to survive and get off the rimworld, you need to build a base that is defensively sound and able to ward off a number of different kinds of threats. Likely all at once and with half your colonists in the hospital at some point. Both 1.0 play-throughs had me literally watching the countdown clock until the ship was ready and launching immediately as soon as it was. It felt satisfying like I had earned it and like (for lack of a better term) I "won" the game. This is such an elegant solution to what I saw as a major problem before. Awesome!
Deep drilling
-I had said before that the changes to deep-drill mechanics made things feel like more of a grind. Since then, deep drills were made re-installable and it seemed like the "to deep" infestations were less (maybe much less) frequent. I think there were some other tweaks too. This time through, it felt better. Still slower than the good 'ol days but reasonable. This play-through was about 3.5 hours shorter than my previous but I could have wrapped it up sooner if I had really wanted to and the fact that I didn't is a good sign.
Sappers
-These new sapper raids are hard to deal with. Personally, I love it. I think this game is at its best when I find myself pausing and staring at the screen for 5 min straight and thinking "how the hell am I going to deal with this?" These new sappers have me doing that a lot. I also like how raiders are showing up with different sets of weapons and (I think) a lot more triple rocket/doomsday launchers which meshes well with the longer range of the autocannon turrets. All-in-all the defensive strategy aspect of the game has improved significantly IMO.
Sandbags
-I feel like it takes too long to repair sandbags. Again, just one man's opinion but they take so much longer to repair than to build them. Just feels bleh.
Crafting quality
-Definitely liking the reduced number of quality levels and the rarity of masterwork and legendary items. In this play-through I came across a legendary charge lance and legendary power armor. That comes to 2 legendary items in around 800 in-game days over my two 1.0 play-throughs. I think that feels about right but I wish they would have been more impressive, given their rarity. Especially the charge lance. I feel like for legendary weapons, things like higher damage per shot and shorter warmup/cooldown time could be on the table. In the end, the legendary charge lance was only marginally better than the excellent charge lance.
Melee
-In the past I very rarely used melee as a strategy at all unless I picked up a brawler who was good at something else that I needed. This time through I had about 50/50 shooters and melee fighters, mostly to adapt to the frequent drop pods of mechanoids in the base. Turns out melee fighters are extremely useful in a number of different scenarios... who knew? (probably everyone else). I'll definitely be using them in the future. Balance-wise, they felt good if not a little OP once they had power armor, plasteel longswords, and shield belts. But maybe that's because I've never really used them in large numbers before.
Right on top of you mechanoid raids
-Still felt too frequent to me. I think they were tweaked recently to have more non-mech raids late-game, but I still got a bunch. I'd say close to 50% of all mid to late-game raids were of this type. I'm really not a fan of this raid type because they're basically just an unavoidable resource drain. No matter how well prepared you are, they're probably going to destroy a bunch of stuff and set you back at least a little (maybe a lot, depending on where they land). It's not usually a huge deal but it just feels like random punishment for no reason. The tornado of raid types.
Quests
-This time through, I went on a number of caravan quests. I had 3 or 4 with antigrain warheads as a reward which I took to help prepare for starting the ship. In the end when I started the ship I had stockpiled 22 antigrain warheads. Guess what? I put them in the same stockroom as the chemfuel. If you put the antigrain warheads in the same stockroom as the chemfuel, you're gonna have a bad time. Juri and Remy sure did... Anyway, I liked the new changes to caravaning, all of which have made it easier and more of a realistic option. Still haven't encountered a tornado generator yet though.
1.0
-I know there are apparently a lot more tweaks and changes coming for 1.0, but I would just like to say that if it dropped as-is today, I'd be perfectly happy with it. Imma build the watermill next time through. and sniper turrets!?... awww sh*t.
Quote from: awful-normal on July 06, 2018, 02:42:20 AM
Guess what? I put them in the same stockroom as the chemfuel. If you put the antigrain warheads in the same stockroom as the chemfuel, you're gonna have a bad time. Juri and Remy sure did...
:O Pics?
"-In the past I very rarely used melee as a strategy at all unless I picked up a brawler who was good at something else that I needed. This time through I had about 50/50 shooters and melee fighters, mostly to adapt to the frequent drop pods of mechanoids in the base. Turns out melee fighters are extremely useful in a number of different scenarios... who knew? (probably everyone else)"
They are so nice once you have shield belts! A bit suicidal before then though, heh.
Ugh.. no.. I didn't think about it until it was too late. Ironically, the recent change to make mortars more damage resistant allowed for Remy to make a heroic last ditch effort to put the fire out before the massive explosion took out about two city blocks of my base. All I could think was how I should have made a slo-mo video of Remy rushing into the chemical fire and sacrificing himself for the good of the colony with "I will always love you" from The Bodyguard playing in the background.
Shouldn't flak armor be better than plate armor given it's farther up the tech tree and is much more expensive to make?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 06, 2018, 01:50:18 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 06, 2018, 01:32:46 AM
Some changes are indeed experimental.
I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.
While I despised having my colonists killed by a hungry polar bear that appeared on the ice sheet all the way across the map, and I definitely save scummed quite a few times due to it, if you bring it back please just give somne sort of warning flag before hand. That's really the only part that made is ultra terrible. We get a warning for a mad animal, a hungry hunter is basically the same thing and keeping track of every single predator on the map is a bit of a silly expectation for a player to have.
Exactly this. I think predator attacks are a good thing. We just need to get a warning (white popup text at the top is enough) at the moment when the predator goes into "Hunting colonist/tamed animal" mode.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 05, 2018, 07:03:43 PM
The jungle is still barren.
1.0 freshly generated jungle: https://i.imgur.com/zTpSrC9.jpg
0.18 freshly generated jungle: https://i.imgur.com/UJqgPNO.jpg
In the older version, every fertile tile was occupied by some kind of vegetation. Now, no less than half is just bare. In fact, flora density of current jungle is somewhere around that of 0.18 boreal forest: https://i.imgur.com/KF91JoC.jpg
I've also noticed this. A tropical swamp used to have vegetation everywhere, but now even at regular temperatures, the dirt is much more noticeable.
Lower vegetation density has been reported previously, as was closed with the following comment:
Quote from: TynanActually it's from a fix to a bug that was introduced around A17 that caused plant and animal density to become 2x what it was supposed to be.
So this isn't a bug - it's a bug fix.
First time posting. I've played 401 hours and love the game (clearly).
My current playthrough I'm on Phoebe Medium, Naked Brutality, just into my 2nd Spring. Mountains and a huge river. I won't report on my playthrough in detail as I've done lots of restarts when changes have happened and haven't really tried combat/caravans etc that much. So just some observations and comments on what I have noticed.
- When I right click and choose 'prioritise' for a task, I have to then watch to make sure the pawn actually completes it - if it's far away, or it's their usual bedtime or they feel like some recreation, they wander off and do something else.
I'd love it if telling them to prioritise means they'll see it through to the end, even if they drop from exhaustion - if we really need that steel mined or that turret built, I don't want ot have to baby sit them to make sure they do it, reclicking on prioritise every so often, and having to change their work priorities and/or change the restrictions tab, is a real pain.
- I didn't mind predators hunting colonists - added an element of danger to leaving the base, and makes more sense than them ignoring the colonists.
- For me skills seem to be learned at a decent rate. Crafting I do find hard to train up, especially at first, but so far we've only wanted to get some basic equipment so not a huge problem - when I played at higher difficulty it was more of a concern though as my pawns only had awful bows against raiders armed with all sorts of guns.
- I like the balance of traits, makes for some interesting characters. I have a careful shooting psychopath with a chemical interest, a gay ascetic, an annoyingly voiced sickly person, and an indoor-loving pyromaniac.
I have to say that though I like the trait, I dislike the term 'indoorsman'. Sounds clunky and awkward. Maybe something like 'homeloving' or 'unadventurous'.
Also I really dislike that everyone insults pawns who are disfigured or 'ugly', but are more likely to like the 'beautiful' people. I think you'd be much more likely to want to be friends with the best shooter or the person who can fix things, or the cook, regardless of how they look. People are much more likely to be valued for what they bring to the group, and whether they pull their weight. You'd gravitate towards someone who seemed steady, confident, likely to keep their head in a crisis, rather than the person who spent ages getting their hair to look good.
I'd prefer an 'unkind' trait where just those pawns would pick on the disfigured. And a different trait that made people more likely to like/dislike them, instead of ugly/beautiful - maybe something like 'inspiring' versus 'complainer'. Sorry if this counts as 'theory crafting' - I'm a bit vague about what that term means.
- I love the new difficulty level descriptions. I realised that I kept playing a difficulty too high for my play style and then getting frustrated, because I was choosing the one that said it was for players with experience and I was too proud to choose the one suitable for new players.
- I'm also loving that traps don't hurt friendlies now - I used them once early on, one of my pawns got hurt so I never bothered again. Having to make complex maze-like entrances to my base doesn't interest me, I just like setting up very simple defences - sandbags, turrets, cover for my shooters, a strong wall all around as soon as I can to keep out wild animals. So having a few traps around will be a great addition.
Sorry this ended up a lot longer than intended, hope some of it is useful.
Keep up the good work. :D
I really liked higher density of plants. Trees were a bit too dense in A17/B18, but especially grass seems really scarce now. I would prefer some vegetation level between the buggy A17/B18 and the fixed 1.0.
Same. In fact i really enjoyed the density of both plantlife and animals in A17 and B18. It actually felt like a temperate forest\jungle. Now it doesn't. The only problem to fix there was regrow times, so that after a poison ship\toxic fallout\winter it wouldn't take forever for the map to not look like a desert.
I'm all for ultra dense shrubbery and critters!!! :D More the merrier. Till they eat each other.
Quote from: Zombull on July 06, 2018, 03:46:19 AM
Shouldn't flak armor be better than plate armor given it's farther up the tech tree and is much more expensive to make?
First : the overview calculates all clothing items, you should remove the non-armor shirt and pants,
especially the devilstrand clothes add a lot of piercing armor.
Second : Flak Armor is produced against modern weaponry, which means higher armor agains piercing damage ( bullets ) and less against blunt and cuts ( melee ).
Third : Quality has a huge impact on the defense values. so you should also compare armors of the same quality to be sure.
Story Time :
My Tribe is coming along pretty well, and I am happy that there are lot less limbs lost.
Scars are no longer as disabling as the have been and are now adding to the characters story.
Andw hat I really like is the description added to wounds.
"The centipede hit Kyle with a minigun bullet intended for Willem".
Now if those little story gems where attached to the scars, as a reminder what happened to the pawn it would be genius.
Quote from: PurpleTonberry on July 06, 2018, 02:37:31 AM
Tynan, I've been noticing in your changelogs that you have been trying to eliminate unnecessary micromanagement as much as possible. Thank you for that, by the way, a lot of the changes have been good QoL changes. There's been one small thing that has bothered me through many, many updates to this game though, more-so now that the negatives are more severe than ever: Cabin Fever.
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with the existence of cabin fever and its severity, but I never understood why pawns suffering from it don't just take a walk outside in an unroofed area. I'm not keeping them locked up like rats, nor are they restricted to any particular area. In particular, I think that on their next joy activity, they should just prioritize taking a walk outside or stargazing/cloudwatching/sunwatching/etc if they suffer too severely from a lack of going outside (if area restrictions allow, of course).
I've attached a screenshot of a colony I just started a couple hours ago. The debuff doesn't make much sense, but that's not really what I'm going for here (even if the Trapped Underground thing is a bug). I'm not keeping the pawns locked up under a roof (don't let the toxic fallout fool you, they're still set to Unrestricted access to the map) and they have 5 hours a day of dedicated joy time, so just.... go outside! I don't think in this kind of situation that I should have to draft pawns and drag them outside to stand around and do nothing so they can not be under a roof for a few hours when they are perfectly capable of that on their own accord.
I just build a "plaza/park" between their bedroom and the most frequent spot someone stays most of the day.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 06, 2018, 06:38:37 AM
I just build a "plaza/park" between their bedroom and the most frequent spot someone stays most of the day.
As an option spacious rec room possibly with unroofed part or outdoors cinema work just fine.
I also love the rarity of legendary items. It definitely feels much more cool to have them. Only issue is they aren't worth the colony wealth.
Things that could make them worth it without worrying about balance issues is a small mood boost to the user. Also a different artwork/animation color would convince people to do the quest for them more often.
Of course they could use a buff but I bet that would require much more time to figure out.
They could also have special effects. Like faster charge up. Increased distance. Or increasing stun/Dodge rating for melee.
Quote from: ashaffee on July 06, 2018, 08:13:03 AMThings that could make them worth it without worrying about balance issues is a small mood boost to the user. Also a different artwork/animation color would convince people to do the quest for them more often.
I like this idea!
Storytime:
My kind and lovely doctor had just arrested a man for slaughtering her bonded alpaca. This would be rough by itself, if it wasn't for her sudden and irrational desire to then take the human-flavoured kibble out of her pocket, and munch down on it as if it were cheerios or cap'n crunch. Shortly after, she plunged into a deep catatonic state.
Having named a colonist Cassandra and setting her title to "Terrible Storyteller", I was less than surprised when raiders attacked me moments later to take full advantage of the situation. I can only assume that my colonists made tasty blood sausage.
Hi. I'm new to the forum. Not new to the game, but watching me play, you really can't tell.
Despite my lack of qualifications, I still have the audacity to ask if there is any chance what so ever that a "food policy" will be added, as that would really bake my cake, so to speak.
It seems peculiar to me that it is possible to micro-manage clothes and drugs, but something as essential as food has been left out.
I, personally, have no problem eating human kibble, and don't know what all the fuss is about, but apparently these fancy pants colonists of mine disapprove. And I can't seem to find a way to cure them of their irrational desire to eat something they hate as long as I use a nutrient dispenser.
I think a lot of people would appreciate this feature, as it would enable more playstyles, and dealing with otherwise sucky colonists in a sensible way (bribing them with drugs and food is a decent and fair strategy).
On a more related note, I have been enjoying a lot of the new features in 1.0. I am not a huge fan of tameness, since it requires me to constantly feed animals (taking up incredible amounts of time) -- perhaps adjust the intervals required for that with difficulty?
I found a weird bug when I sent a caravan with one colonist out with a pack animal. At night, I get "caravan immobilized" or whatever, due to the colonist's capacity being removed from the party when he sleeps.
Some small animal (probably a rat, but I didn't notice it in time) activated my incendiary IED. If it wasn't accidental it doesn't worth spending components to hunt small game.
There goes my outer mine fields tactically spread along the map, I guess.
When you generate a world and the ocean is named in huge letters:
(https://i.imgur.com/4PCM552.jpg?1)
I'm dying.
(https://i.imgur.com/ULDvWwM.jpg)
I didn't even know this was implemented. That is amazing.
I also want to point out that I don't blame Wade for his decision, it was probably the wisest thing he had done in his entire life. Drug addled medieval lord as he was. Cannibalism is perhaps pushing it a little bit.
Predator attacks are more an annoyance than anything else. I think they should have wild animals as high priority, then if there are none, go for your animals, then if there are none, go for your pawns.
But if there are plenty of wild animals, leave us alone. As I said, they add nothing, just a random inevitable attack that you couldnt see until it was too late. And even if we had a warning, it would be a hassle to draft 2-3 pawns to kill it.
However, if we talk about a bear, it might still make sense... Just make sure that at least foxes, wolves and wargs at least attack us and our animals the last. I dont mind drafting 2-3 pawns to defend ourselves from a bear sometimes, but a fox every day... No.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on July 06, 2018, 09:07:01 AM
It seems peculiar to me that it is possible to micro-manage clothes and drugs, but something as essential as food has been left out.
I, personally, have no problem eating human kibble, and don't know what all the fuss is about, but apparently these fancy pants colonists of mine disapprove. And I can't seem to find a way to cure them of their irrational desire to eat something they hate as long as I use a nutrient dispenser.
You've described WM Smarter Food Selection mod. I don't think it would be implemented. It makes this game way too good, especially part that manages animal food.
Several exotic traders had hyperweave in stock. Exactly one piece of it.
Trading caravans tend to hang around some geothermal near map edge or a trap set on some narrow tunnel invaders usually come through.
Had a wild man event. Her mood modifiers (not tamed):
- Ate without table
- Slept outside
- Slept on ground
- Naked
- Ate corpse
Kinda high demands for a wild.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 06, 2018, 10:09:22 AM
You've described WM Smarter Food Selection mod. I don't think it would be implemented. It makes this game way too good, especially part that manages animal food.
I don't think making a game too good is a valid reason not to put something in. :P
Quick play report:
NB extreme Phoebe flat arid biome. Died after a few weeks due to a combination of hot weather, heat wave, cooking skill 1 and 2 on both colonists, one colonist having an addiction. Very frequent food poisoning made it hard to get food and wood for the stove and cooler. This was a slow death over a week or so.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on July 06, 2018, 10:38:18 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 06, 2018, 10:09:22 AM
You've described WM Smarter Food Selection mod. I don't think it would be implemented. It makes this game way too good, especially part that manages animal food.
I don't think making a game too good is a valid reason not to put something in. :P
I would just like too have the same settings as choosing medicine for a pawn, just for food. So I can set animals to "raw only", prisoners to "simple meals" and colonists to "everything".
Another thing I noticed after the door speed change:
It is very useful for my freezer. Colonists open the door, walk in to get food from right next to the door and leave while the door is still open. Feels very good and reduces the need for autodoors early. Besides that I could still door cheese a thrumbo, I just had to walk in a bit earlier. How about changing doors so that to repair a door, the door needs to be open. That way would also make durable doors more useful, since I can still run inside and flee from weaker animals that can't break the door in their time attacking it, while this doesn't work against stronger enemies.
It's weird that I can just repair a wood door while a thumbo hammers a bit against it and then he walks away without me having any problems. (You could also just deactivate heat transfer while a door is getting repaired if someone thinks that is a problem.)
I also just finished a caravan request where I got 2 vanometrics for a few dusters. Not sure if I already wrote that, but while I like the requests in general, this just seems a bit too good. maybe it's just a feeling for this specific game, since it solved all my power problems at once that otherwise needes research, mining resources, getting new places to build and build the generators. But yeah, constant 2400 w power on any 2 1x2 cell space I want for 500 leather/cloth is a trade I would always take.
Edit:
I wanted to add a quick suggestion: Windows are nothing new, but they would fit nicely into the new outdoor need system. So if a pawn is indoor but near a window to the outside (and unroofed) his outdoor desire grows slower. On the other hand, if he is deep under a mountain with no windows, his urge to get out grows way faster.
And I also like the idea someone posted earlier, that colonists should choose outdoor recreation more likely if the feel trapped indoor. Although that would need a counterpart for the then missing "impressive recreation room" mood buff. Maybe a small "outdoor recreation in a beautiful area" mood effect.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 06, 2018, 09:27:26 AM
When you generate a world and the ocean is named in huge letters:
(https://i.imgur.com/4PCM552.jpg?1)
I'm dying.
That is by far the best world gen i've ever seen...
Quote from: vzoxz0 on July 06, 2018, 10:38:18 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 06, 2018, 10:09:22 AM
You've described WM Smarter Food Selection mod. I don't think it would be implemented. It makes this game way too good, especially part that manages animal food.
I don't think making a game too good is a valid reason not to put something in. :P
This game is drama generator. That's why a lot of logical things are not here - they would give players tools to deal with problems without drama. WM SFS cuts out:
- Animals binging drugs
- Cattle eating your crops
- Kibble management (you can just store kibble and hay in barn and animals would only eat it when they have no access to grass)
- Hauling animals (who for the obvious reason usually have access to storage) eating good food when they can find a cheap one
- Artifical nutrient dispenser limitations (you can feed animals with nutrient paste which is much more efficient than hay, for larger animals at least)
- Animal handlers feeding sick animals with lavish meals
Quote from: Lanilor on July 06, 2018, 10:56:39 AM
It's weird that I can just repair a wood door while a thumbo hammers a bit against it and then he walks away without me having any problems.
Not too weird, barricading and reinforcing door is quite realistic. Though it's still interesting idea about open while repairing.
Another consequence of trap change. Guess I'll be marking outdoors traps as home zone so that critters does not clutter them up. Wouldn't work for bleed out somewhere else ones though. If nothing changes next tribal start will try to start with making a one way corridor with traps and decoy at the end inside. Maybe trap spring chance should be multiplied by creature size?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Tynan - please bring back closing bill detail windows by clicking outside the window.
When I try to assign several bills (say duster, shirt and pants) so they are made of certain materials it's incredibly useful to be able to just double-click the "details..." button instead of having to click "close" and then "details...".
Note: Doubleclick because first click doesn't have to be on the button, but just outside the window to close it, second click is to open the next bill's details, so for efficiency you might as well move the mouse on the details button already.
I know this is tiny, but it is very annoying when I want a full set of clothing of a certain type of leather.
Animal predatory change. Check map for food, if none herbivore animal present, check for colonist pet, if none kill the nearest human for food. The point is we can avoid random predator eating our colonist, as the player maintain animal ecosystem on the map so the predator not ran out prey/food. Maybe add warning when last wild herbivore animal extict. If player kill all animal except predator, its their own fault if predator attack them
Anoher suggestion, i like the way blight in crop happen, not like old days where suddenly they gone by rng. Now there problem with malaria, plague,flu , muscle parasite etc. Its so stupid they randomly appear, there nothing we can do to avoid. I hope there is indication like gas or mosquito , if colonist stay to long near them they will get sick, their antibodies weaken and such. Using drug before they get in contact will help increasing immunity/antibodies, or we could destroy them with something before the sick gettin on to our colonist.
The point is all event in game ,there should a way to avoid or minimize the problem source. Not just randomly getting out of hand. Like recently food poisoning problem, as long we have decent chef and clean kitchen there no way we got the problem 99%. Not a stupid rng deciding what they wnt to happen without our concern/mistake in first place
And i hope before 1.0 release there at least 10 - 20 more random event to make more story. A 500+ hours player probably already learn and thru all the event
Ty and sorry for my english
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 06, 2018, 11:18:45 AM
Tynan - please bring back closing bill detail windows by clicking outside the window.
Second this. I didn't even realize that this was changed vanilla functionality, I thought it was behavior from a mod. I also miss the ability to change between bills just by double-clicking the other bill.
Edit: also, I think this has been a thing for a while, but predators don't seem to ever eat their kills except immediately after they kill it. If a cougar kills a boar, the corpse will either rot, or be snatched up by me; the cougar never seems to return to their kill. Maybe changing behavior so that predators will seek non-rotten corpses before they hunt? This would also help with cleaning up after raids...
Quote from: Alenerel on July 06, 2018, 09:41:13 AM
Predator attacks are more an annoyance than anything else. I think they should have wild animals as high priority, then if there are none, go for your animals, then if there are none, go for your pawns.
But if there are plenty of wild animals, leave us alone. As I said, they add nothing, just a random inevitable attack that you couldnt see until it was too late. And even if we had a warning, it would be a hassle to draft 2-3 pawns to kill it.
However, if we talk about a bear, it might still make sense... Just make sure that at least foxes, wolves and wargs at least attack us and our animals the last. I dont mind drafting 2-3 pawns to defend ourselves from a bear sometimes, but a fox every day... No.
Historically, they're threatening for the wrong reasons. They kill a pawn more surely than raiders, with much less warning. On balance, they're also very easy to kill. The issue is the heavy micromanagement - with no notification the only counterplay w/o mods prior to 1.0 was manually panning the map. Doing so frequently enough to guarantee against predators took more IRL time than some of the most degenerate micromanagement tricks Rimworld has had.
Wildlife tab alleviated that to a degree, but still required constant manual checking every few days. The end result of such an implementation is similar to a requirement that you manually order pawns to eat, or they collapse from starvation. Like fighting predators, micromanaging pawns to eat would be easy. It also wouldn't add any real thought process to the game. All the same arguments about predators apply here too (IRL, if you don't eat you starve). But in mechanical terms this would do nothing but make Rimworld more annoying to play.
Other than turning it off entirely, options like hunt alert or an alert for "predators have no wild food available" could be implemented. The main question remains: aside from rote micromanagement to upkeep something, what does this add to the game? It's similar in principle to forcing manual cleaning/eating/cooking/etc. It's unique in that it's a very high pawn threat despite that it's literally the only external threat in the game with no notification whatsoever.
QuoteThis game is drama generator. That's why a lot of logical things are not here - they would give players tools to deal with problems without drama. WM SFS cuts out:
- Animals binging drugs
- Cattle eating your crops
- Kibble management (you can just store kibble and hay in barn and animals would only eat it when they have no access to grass)
- Hauling animals (who for the obvious reason usually have access to storage) eating good food when they can find a cheap one
- Artifical nutrient dispenser limitations (you can feed animals with nutrient paste which is much more efficient than hay, for larger animals at least)
- Animal handlers feeding sick animals with lavish meals
A lot of this is in 1.0 (and earlier in most cases). For example zoning (I like the merged zones in 1.0 btw) cattle off crops is trivial, and while micro intensive you can spam out nutrient paste meals w/o mods.
Animals consuming drugs that are outside their zones has always been a degenerate implementation, more micro nuisance than a mechanic that offers interesting decisions or difficult execution...but it has long been possible to block this entirely. The problem with these mods is that they're not pure QoL; they alter the tradeoffs of some of the game's mechanics too. Hauler animal food consumption is an example, that effectively buffs them via mod.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 06, 2018, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: vzoxz0 on July 06, 2018, 10:38:18 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 06, 2018, 10:09:22 AM
You've described WM Smarter Food Selection mod. I don't think it would be implemented. It makes this game way too good, especially part that manages animal food.
I don't think making a game too good is a valid reason not to put something in. :P
This game is drama generator. That's why a lot of logical things are not here - they would give players tools to deal with problems without drama. WM SFS cuts out:
- Animals binging drugs
- Cattle eating your crops
- Kibble management (you can just store kibble and hay in barn and animals would only eat it when they have no access to grass)
- Hauling animals (who for the obvious reason usually have access to storage) eating good food when they can find a cheap one
- Artifical nutrient dispenser limitations (you can feed animals with nutrient paste which is much more efficient than hay, for larger animals at least)
- Animal handlers feeding sick animals with lavish meals
Drugs aside (WHO LET THE CAT INTO THE LUCY STORAGE?!), I would argue that none of this adds to the drama, just annoyance.
I'm not normally one to ask for things to be harder, but large Predators should be predatory, even on people. With the changes to revenge, and the wildlife tab (which is looked at fairly frequently for hunting anyway) its a lot easier to take them out than it has been. Yes its somewhat micro-y, but this game has micro, thats a fair chunk of the gameplay.
Quote from: botaxalim on July 06, 2018, 11:20:19 AM
Animal predatory change. Check map for food, if none herbivore animal present, check for colonist pet, if none kill the nearest human for food. The point is we can avoid random predator eating our colonist, as the player maintain animal ecosystem on the map so the predator not ran out prey/food. Maybe add warning when last wild herbivore animal extict. If player kill all animal except predator, its their own fault if predator attack them
It could be solved with a constant transparent notification like "minor break risk" but with "human hunting predators around", turning into red emergency notification like "medical emergency" when some of them are at the point they hungry enough to go for human hunting, and a red time pausing letter when one of them actually starts hunting a colonist.
So player could ignore the presence of predators if he wishes so, but be alarmed if they are becoming more dangerous and have actual time to react if he ignored it all and it resulted in colonist being attacked without having to smash space bar quickly, if he checked a "Pause on urgent letter" checkbox in menu. Because, really, someone being mauled is quite urgent thing.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam
The main question remains: aside from rote micromanagement to upkeep something, what does this add to the game?
Player-VS-environment and immersion. Because if wargs are peacefull to the point they rather starve to death than attack a human - something they were engineered for from their description, then why have them present at all?
Quote from: Sirsir on July 06, 2018, 11:30:45 AM
Drugs aside (WHO LET THE CAT INTO THE LUCY STORAGE?!), I would argue that none of this adds to the drama, just annoyance.
Agree, most heartily. Micromanaging food access is just tedious.
could we please get some sort of an indicator next to pawn portraits if their caravan is idle? I seem to miss the notifications sometimes.
Also on the subject of QoL, why does the "haul things" tool only work on junk? Can there be a way to prioritize hauling collected crops from the fields?
You know, now that wild animals trigger traps, there's a bizarre phenomenon happening each time there's a cold snap in my temperate Forrest:
The Great Boomrat Suicides!
I leave some doors to my main stockpile open, and once it gets really cold, lots of wild small animals go towards it looking for food.
Now the boomrats often trigger my boobytraps, leading to constant small explosions at my colony's entrances.
It's both a good source of food and a risk to my colonists.
The rats often set IED's on fire, which then can explode as my colonists try to extinguish them.
It's quite funny though.
I second to all people here, who want predators attacking colonists again, but i really hope, if that mechanic returns, it will have not only a warning, about your pawn being hunted (before its already halfeaten preferably), but also makes the said animal considered hostile by both colonists and turrets. It was stupid, when a bear mauled someone's wife right in front of said guy's eyes and he just walks by like nothing's happened.
Played another 2 seasons or so on boreal mountains:
I'd forgotten how difficult it is to both do the initial mountain setup and survive on boreal and nearly starve to death trying to maintain too many prisoners. I just barely failed to get a full circle of hydroponics and mistakenly stopped working on it. Ended up getting enough food through a caravan. Temperature on the map is slightly misadvertised, it got down to -40C, so it was kind of chilly!
Food poisoning was also a real pain. I thought a level 5 cook and a relatively clean kitchen would have been sufficient to drop the paste machine: it's not. Vomit everywhere for a week or two, not much work done.
A psychic ship crashes down amusingly right at my turret entrance. in retrospect I probably should have either built more turrets or moved them and built traps for the fragile lancers, but a couple turrets end up blowing up setting me back a few hundred steel.
On balance: With a weaker economy this time around and not having much time to mine for steel or get cannons, I really felt the crunch trying to keep up with turret maintenance and replacing downed turrets. Cannons have the advantage of being repairable very easily in battle and not easily destroyed, so they are much more steel efficient in the long term. So I would have been better off simply building deadfalls in the beginning.
I'm not sure if that really needs balancing, as deadfalls when you have a killbox are still useful in the beginning, but maybe miniturret maintenance costs specifically are high.
Ultimately I do end up getting settled and finally am able to move in to the more fortified position:
Oh, and vasquez dies from an infection to a scratch xD. note to self: Being 20% ahead on infection isn't quite enough to turn off bed rest. Got the medical emergency message just too late.
Edit: OH ALSO! Holy crap does smoothing floors take forever. Was this changed? I just gave up and burned a bunch of wood on floor tiles :'(
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Jovlo on July 06, 2018, 12:20:04 PM
The rats often set IED's on fire, which then can explode as my colonists try to extinguish them.
Whoa. Somehow even though I had IEDs triggering on rats, I haven't thought of a possibility when I'd lose a pawn because of a rat jumping on explosive IED near him. xD Even funnier/scarier then if he accidentally triggered it himself.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 06, 2018, 12:52:03 PM
Quote from: Jovlo on July 06, 2018, 12:20:04 PM
The rats often set IED's on fire, which then can explode as my colonists try to extinguish them.
Whoa. Somehow even though I had IEDs triggering on rats, I haven't thought of a possibility when I'd lose a pawn because of a rat jumping on explosive IED near him. xD Even funnier/scarier then if he accidentally triggered it himself.
Well, it was the fire of the boomrat's death that put the IED on fire.
The IED was close to a trap that killed it, the trap killed the Boomrat, not the IED.
My colonist almost exploded when he tried to extinguish the IED.
Haven't seen any IED's triggered by animals yet.
Well, I haven't actually saw the rat — there was no urgent notification or any harm to pawn so game wasn't on pause and it was some time after I heard explosion when I found it, so possibly it was a bigger animal, but I saw only rats (and my pawns) near it, so my best guess was that it was a rat.
QuotePlayer-VS-environment and immersion. Because if wargs are peacefull to the point they rather starve to death than attack a human - something they were engineered for from their description, then why have them present at all?
You could make a similar case about manual cleaning and how that adds immersion.
Really though I just don't want to see more rote micromanagement in the game. I'm not opposed to predators being dangerous or hunting pawns, there's plenty of stuff that can kill pawns after all. The issue prior to recently was how dangerous this interaction was when compared against the notification + micro requirement. For an example of how asymmetric threat vs notification really can be, compare this to the fact that you get an event warning for the presence of beavers :p.
If we hold that tactics like "path abuse thrumbo over long time" and "door peek vs manhunter events" are degenerate/uninteresting due to the time it takes to do these things, manually hunting for predators is in the same boat. Even with wildlife tab, you can't safely hunt them solo.
Draft hunting is nearly 100% safe, but given the comparative frequency this is literally more of a grind than if you kill every thrumbo that ever enters the map with nothing but pistols. The latter takes less IRL time and is more forgiving for mistakes.
Another useful counterplay measure would be if predators actually targeted meat/fresh corpses over pawns. I've seen people claim they do in the past, and it would be a nice mechanic if it worked, but that's not how Rimworld has functioned wrt predator targeting, while leaving some caribou meat out would be a nice failsafe on those otherwise small-game sparse Tundra maps.
After starting another game of 1.0 and plugging along, I find something I constantly miss in the early game when I don't know my colonists very well and even throughout the game as you add colonists is an overview of skills.
A single chart with all colonists with all skills values showing so I can quickly see who my best medic is, who's my best cook, who's my best at construction, who should I pick for this and that and the other.
Clicking on a pawn, then character then going through all the pawns again to see if I'm picking the right break point for a bill for crafting this or constructing that or force building a bed so I don't get another awful one. Which colonist is best for that again?
There are certainly ways to find the information, but the number of clicks required, or mouse overs if I use the work tab is onerous when done over, and over and over again throughout the game. And you never really get to see it all in one place, you have to hold all that in memory while chewing on decisions.
Or, maybe there's a hidden function that already does this and I just can't find it. :)
Quote from: TheMeInTeam
You could make a similar case about manual cleaning and how that adds immersion.
No I couldn't, that's a false statement. Having to manually order pawns to clean is nowhere near a definitive part of creatures — "dangerous" predators — behavior. It's more like "let's make raiders and mechs peacefull, so we don't have to micro around".
Though this can be an argument for a button to automatically mark predators for hunting. This would add to hunters job, adding defender and population control role to just meat gathering, and will motivate player to gear up hunters better, choosing healthy fast pawns for that work and giving him/them animal companions.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam
Really though I just don't want to see more rote micromanagement in the game.
It's not that I want more micromanagement, you possibly getting me wrong. My vote is for better notifications about predators and auto-hunt, not for have more micro. Though it's not to exclude all
micro occasional positional tactics play either.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam
Even with wildlife tab, you can't safely hunt them solo.
But I can. I do it in my current game right now — my hunter is healthy, fast, has high accuracy, good quality weapon and one-two husky companions. Even wargs rarely get close enough to scare him to flee and be finished by dogs. It's as safe as hunt can immersively be, imo.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam
Draft hunting is nearly 100% safe, but given the comparative frequency this is literally more of a grind than if you kill every thrumbo that ever enters the map with nothing but pistols. The latter takes less IRL time and is more forgiving for mistakes.
Draft hunting is ok, it is as it should be because it is not a
hunt, but rather a direct attack mission.
It's up to player to decide, does he want to hunt that way or not (or it is a possibility in a situation with no other option — like if it's a early game and he has no reliable hunter yet, but needs food)
Thrumbos are not supposed to be hunted in other manner, like by one hunter. That's why they are peaceful yet have high revenge chance and so hard to kill. It's either you
fight (not
hunt) them — so you draft pawns, get them in positions, plan ahead and micro, or you don't bother and let them move along.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam
Another useful counterplay measure would be if predators actually targeted meat/fresh corpses over pawns. I've seen people claim they do in the past, and it would be a nice mechanic if it worked, but that's not how Rimworld has functioned wrt predator targeting, while leaving some caribou meat out would be a nice failsafe on those otherwise small-game sparse Tundra maps.
Well, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 06, 2018, 01:43:59 PM
After starting another game of 1.0 and plugging along, I find something I constantly miss in the early game when I don't know my colonists very well and even throughout the game as you add colonists is an overview of skills.
A single chart with all colonists with all skills values showing so I can quickly see who my best medic is, who's my best cook, who's my best at construction, who should I pick for this and that and the other.
Clicking on a pawn, then character then going through all the pawns again to see if I'm picking the right break point for a bill for crafting this or constructing that or force building a bed so I don't get another awful one. Which colonist is best for that again?
There are certainly ways to find the information, but the number of clicks required, or mouse overs if I use the work tab is onerous when done over, and over and over again throughout the game. And you never really get to see it all in one place, you have to hold all that in memory while chewing on decisions.
Or, maybe there's a hidden function that already does this and I just can't find it. :)
The work tab has this information graphically (maybe only in the "Manual priorities" mode?). It shades the boxes lighter colors for better workers at that task, along with displaying the colonists' passions for that task if they have one. Mousing over the box shows the actual relevant skill value.
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 06, 2018, 01:43:59 PM
After starting another game of 1.0 and plugging along, I find something I constantly miss in the early game when I don't know my colonists very well and even throughout the game as you add colonists is an overview of skills.
A single chart with all colonists with all skills values showing so I can quickly see who my best medic is, who's my best cook, who's my best at construction, who should I pick for this and that and the other.
Clicking on a pawn, then character then going through all the pawns again to see if I'm picking the right break point for a bill for crafting this or constructing that or force building a bed so I don't get another awful one. Which colonist is best for that again?
There are certainly ways to find the information, but the number of clicks required, or mouse overs if I use the work tab is onerous when done over, and over and over again throughout the game. And you never really get to see it all in one place, you have to hold all that in memory while chewing on decisions.
Or, maybe there's a hidden function that already does this and I just can't find it. :)
I both agree with you and offer my personal workaround in case it works for you: The Work Tab.
I set my best doctors to priority 1, my worst to priority 4, and those in the middle to 2 and 3. Then when raiders incapacitate 5 people I can pop open the work tab and instantly see who's the best. Same for cooking and all other skills. Sadly "Social" isn't mappable to anything (Warden maybe?) or I'd also know who to send to the Caravan to buy and sell for me.
Now that pawn joy doesn't go up with preferred jobs, I have started ignoring preferred jobs for this QOL change. Though there's a lot to say for using the preference to train up in peacetime.
Quote from: D-Wiz on July 06, 2018, 02:06:12 PM
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 06, 2018, 01:43:59 PM
After starting another game of 1.0 and plugging along, I find something I constantly miss in the early game when I don't know my colonists very well and even throughout the game as you add colonists is an overview of skills.
A single chart with all colonists with all skills values showing so I can quickly see who my best medic is, who's my best cook, who's my best at construction, who should I pick for this and that and the other.
Clicking on a pawn, then character then going through all the pawns again to see if I'm picking the right break point for a bill for crafting this or constructing that or force building a bed so I don't get another awful one. Which colonist is best for that again?
There are certainly ways to find the information, but the number of clicks required, or mouse overs if I use the work tab is onerous when done over, and over and over again throughout the game. And you never really get to see it all in one place, you have to hold all that in memory while chewing on decisions.
Or, maybe there's a hidden function that already does this and I just can't find it. :)
The work tab has this information (maybe only in the "Manual priorities" mode?). It shades the boxes lighter colors for better workers at that task, along with displaying the colonists' passions for that task if they have one. Mousing over the box shows the actual relevant skill value.
There is also an option to click on a job name in work tab to sort them by skill level.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 06, 2018, 02:12:36 PM
I both agree with you and offer my personal workaround in case it works for you: The Work Tab.
I set my best doctors to priority 1, my worst to priority 4, and those in the middle to 2 and 3. Then when raiders incapacitate 5 people I can pop open the work tab and instantly see who's the best. Same for cooking and all other skills. Sadly "Social" isn't mappable to anything (Warden maybe?) or I'd also know who to send to the Caravan to buy and sell for me.
Now that pawn joy doesn't go up with preferred jobs, I have started ignoring preferred jobs for this QOL change. Though there's a lot to say for using the preference to train up in peacetime.
Wardening is social, but trading is more than that. Trading also affected by health and inspiration, so pawn with best social does not necessarily best negotiator. In fact, the same thing with everything. A most skilled doctor who is missing an eye or arm, or just has a hangover is not always the best candidate for the job.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 06, 2018, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam
Another useful counterplay measure would be if predators actually targeted meat/fresh corpses over pawns. I've seen people claim they do in the past, and it would be a nice mechanic if it worked, but that's not how Rimworld has functioned wrt predator targeting, while leaving some caribou meat out would be a nice failsafe on those otherwise small-game sparse Tundra maps.
Well, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.
Predator usually would prefer a corpse, but only if a said corpse is around and not always. I never bury raiders (I don't want to turn my map into giant graveyard), and still even having access to fresh corpses does not always grants safety.
Quote from: Tynan on July 06, 2018, 01:32:46 AM
Some changes are indeed experimental.
I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.
I'm fine with manhunter attacks! I just don't like the sudden nature of them. What would be good is if a animal was to go manhunter you get a notification for it so that you can prepare accordingly.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 06, 2018, 01:21:05 PMIf we hold that tactics like "path abuse thrumbo over long time" and "door peek vs manhunter events" are degenerate/uninteresting due to the time it takes to do these things, manually hunting for predators is in the same boat. Even with wildlife tab, you can't safely hunt them solo.
I've found that the best time to send a hunter to take down a predator is after the predator has finished fighting a particularly difficult prey. They're wounded, and therefore take fewer hits to down, and potentially can't retaliate as quickly or as effectively.
So the Wildlife tab is useful in that regard, just keep an eye out for wounded wargs, for example, and then jump to them and mark for hunting.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 06, 2018, 02:30:05 PM
Quote from: Sirinox on July 06, 2018, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam
Another useful counterplay measure would be if predators actually targeted meat/fresh corpses over pawns. I've seen people claim they do in the past, and it would be a nice mechanic if it worked, but that's not how Rimworld has functioned wrt predator targeting, while leaving some caribou meat out would be a nice failsafe on those otherwise small-game sparse Tundra maps.
Well, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.
Predator usually would prefer a corpse, but only if a said corpse is around and not always. I never bury raiders (I don't want to turn my map into giant graveyard), and still even having access to fresh corpses does not always grants safety.
Close enough. It's normal that predator won't go on the other end of the map for a corpse if he has fresh meat near it, it's as pawns food searching so that they won't run for a lavish meal across the map if have nice meals nearby. In Ice Sheet if I intent to buy my colonists off predators I'll have to lay the bait somewhere around my colony in some distance from it, nothing wrong with that. And rare other cases are for story moments. :)
Well, rather than making predators peaceful at lower difficulties, maybe it should be so that they don't spawn as wild animals at low difficulty and only arrive with caravans as animals for sale? It's just that storyteller decided to tell a story about a colony that had not experienced dangers of predators near it.
I miss natural tornadoes. Once Tynan removed them, there has been only 1 feedback regarding this, who said that they were a useless addition. I have a conversation with other RW players discussing Tynan's updates and one of them said that he'd stop playing if tornado incidents don't happen in the final build.
I won't speak for his reasons, I will speak mine. I kinda liked this feature in B18. The thrill if it doesn't hit my colony. Twice I had to rebuild my power sources after tornadoes. Stone walls were receiving slight damage due to them, but it wasn't that serious. It becomes more of an issue with a larger colony, as it's more likely to hit your buildings. Maybe I haven't experienced this destroying my legendary beds or wiping out all my medicine but this incident may create many interesting stories.
QuoteThere is also an option to click on a job name in work tab to sort them by skill level.
Skill level isn't, and never has been, very representative of actual work performance. It's very tedious looking at all the stats constantly to figure out who's best at what.
I don't mind dealing with predators. I just need to know they're there. Maybe just show a notification on screen any time a colonist sees a predator. Colonists with limited eyesight wouldn't see them as far away.
Regarding the density of vegetation (or lack thereof), would it make sense for that to be another map variable? Like hilliness, but for trees and plants instead of rocks. It could be neat to have different environmental options not strictly related to temperature.
It might even be cool to have "forests" generate at the world map level like mountains do. So for instance, a whole swath of the world could be tropical, but only certain areas of it would be true rainforests, while the rest have vegetation similar to current "tropical rainforest" levels, and some even less than that.
Just throwing stuff out there, but something like this seems like it might help solve the problems people are seeing with not having enough trees, grass, etc. and also provide even more varied environments to play in.
On the economic balancing front, one thing I've noticed is every successful colony invariably gets rich from selling stockpiles of leather. It's basically piles of free silver as a reward for big game hunting. It might be a good idea to make players work a little harder for it. Produce perishable, low-value "skins" instead of leather when butchering. Add a tanning job to turn it into the non-perishable leather that can be used for crafted or sold for profit.
Well really all forts after a while become rich: hunting, crops, drilling, mechanoids. I think it's intended, some of the higher end goods are crazy expensive like arcotech bionics
" They kill a pawn more surely than raiders, with much less warning." <----------- This is why it needs a raid level notification. Big red envelope pause game. So you can react to it.
A base with a perimeter wall and an entrance lines with traps gathers a lot of dead animals for free.
Just the presence of food (mature crops or dropped meal) inside the perimeter is enough to lure most animals in and they'll meet their doom on the traps. Extra points if they're boomalopes and destroy your traps.
At first the extra meat and leather was nice, but now it's a really awkward situation and an annoyance.
Quote from: Jstank on July 06, 2018, 03:34:39 PM
" They kill a pawn more surely than raiders, with much less warning." <----------- This is why it needs a raid level notification. Big red envelope pause game. So you can react to it.
Most times if you're just reacting it's already too late from my experience as the pawn is isolated and the animal is faster. There's is literally nothing you can do apart from prevention, or maybe burning psychic shock lances on predators since they have infinite range. Kind of extreme in my opinion.
Imo animals shouldn't have x-ray vision spotting food through your walls from other corner of the map in the first place. And removing that will eliminate the problem with them always getting caught on traps.
Got a space refugee already affiliated with rough outlander union. Kinda strange.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Alenerel on July 06, 2018, 09:41:13 AM
Predator attacks are more an annoyance than anything else. I think they should have wild animals as high priority, then if there are none, go for your animals, then if there are none, go for your pawns.
But if there are plenty of wild animals, leave us alone. As I said, they add nothing, just a random inevitable attack that you couldnt see until it was too late. And even if we had a warning, it would be a hassle to draft 2-3 pawns to kill it.
However, if we talk about a bear, it might still make sense... Just make sure that at least foxes, wolves and wargs at least attack us and our animals the last. I dont mind drafting 2-3 pawns to defend ourselves from a bear sometimes, but a fox every day... No.
Totally agree with all of that!
WRT traps affecting/not affecting animals/neutrals/friendlies, would it be possible to implement a weight limit on whether they're triggered? So things higher than (say) fox body weight will set them off, but rats, squirrels & rabbits won't? Or at least a chance to do similar, increasing with bodyweight (I'm ignoring sentients & their pets here: if friendly/neutral they know where the trap's trigger is & so can avoid it & lead their pets around it safely)
Of course, a separate baited 'hunting trap' (as opposed to defence trap) design would be excellent too, but the above deals with the major discrepancies without introducing a new item..
Quote from: vzoxz0 on July 06, 2018, 03:09:32 PM
QuoteThere is also an option to click on a job name in work tab to sort them by skill level.
Skill level isn't, and never has been, very representative of actual work performance. It's very tedious looking at all the stats constantly to figure out who's best at what.
Ah, this is very true, after I figure out who's technically the most skilled at something, I have to sort through the health tabs to see all of the debuffs applied ... nothing like thinking your 12 artist is really the best for crafting statues to appease your jealous pawn when in actuality, her bad back and brain injury really make her next to useless. It should be fairly easy to calculate effective scores and show them in a tabular manner that doesn't take a dozen clicks or hovering over 30 boxes to figure it all out.
I mean, I still keep doing it and eventually picking the right numbers for break points on crafting and who I really want to do what, but it's tedious.
There are mods that do this, but there is no real reason it shouldn't be in the base game (many features that used to be mods, are now in the base game).
Quote from: vzoxz0 on July 06, 2018, 04:05:21 PM
There are mods that do this, but there is no real reason it shouldn't be in the base game (many features that used to be mods, are now in the base game).
I avoid mods in most games I play. I end up with conflicts, patches don't work as expected and some feel more like cheating than a simple efficiency mod ... that way madness lies; let me shun that.
It seems to be more of a thing for RimWorld though ... missing in the base game? There's a mod for that.
Made new tribe with 1.0.1956. Flat area, tropical swamp with river. Extra hard Randy.
Wanted to grow cocoa trees. They suck. It takes too much time to plant them and result is unsatisfactory given growth time and used space.
Love how bridges work on such kind of map. It gives flexibility to build almost anywhere, but still it has huge price behind it even with ~infinite ammounts of wood around.
What's up with giant overpowered raids against my tribal colonies? All the time the same story: steady stream of weak raids and then suddenly this giant thing with doomsday launchers, power armor and miniguns... It looks off. Is this because I crafted that legendary wooden plate armor and masterwork marble table?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Just got a massive infestation (2 hives per one combat capable pawn). When I've started combat, all bugs rushed across the base to trash my furniture (my inner doors are mostly kept open), barely paying attention to my pawns, so I've just killed them all without a scratch. I'm not sure how to feel about it.
QuoteWanted to grow cocoa trees. They suck. It takes too much time to plant them and result is unsatisfactory given growth time and used space.
I tried planting a bunch, not seen any results -- Cassandra hit me with toxic fallout after a few were half grown.
QuoteBut I can. I do it in my current game right now — my hunter is healthy, fast, has high accuracy, good quality weapon and one-two husky companions.
That's not what "solo" means :D. And cleaning is similar - it's a routine task that becomes necessary intermittently. If you don't do it, you run the risk of bad consequences (from mood hit, a significant risk on highest difficulties where you're a full -8 compared to default at all times). The game does it automatically and you're not at risk of pawn death from not optimizing this...but what if you were? What if you HAD to manually clean, or you'd lose people significantly more frequently? That's early 1.0 and earlier predators.
You distinguish hunting from draft fighting - but here's the thing. Hunting is dangerous, by design. A single hunter can draw pack aggro or miss a few shots vs angry predator and get into big trouble/die, especially when you don't have animals to cover for you. If you draft hunt decently...that outcome is basically impossible. The cost/benefit and risk are disproportionately in favor of "draft hunting".
Suggestion: On a side note, I'd like to be able to designate a cleaning area. Auto-creation of home area forces a lot of zoning micro. Some stuff doesn't need to be cleaned routinely.
QuoteWell, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.
Definitely not. I don't have recorded footage like I have for a significant portion of the rest of my comments on this thread, but I have witnessed a wolf ignore a fresh animal corpse to the point of running past it to attack a pawn. I have also been "hunted" by predators multiple times despite having recently defended a raid (numerous raider corpses still on the ground, not rotted due to winter).
I have no idea what the predator targeting algorithm does or what it's supposed to do, but I can 100% verify that predators do not consistently target fresh meat that can't fight back over pawns. I have not tested this with butchered meat, but it's definitely the case for corpses.
To be fair, the Warg really shouldn't prefer corpses to live beings.
Edit (since no one posted since I did):
I found a weird bug -- toxic fallout is supposed to corrode items, but it isn't mentioned when you select an item that is outside. Is it actually being degraded faster? I can't tell.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on July 06, 2018, 05:07:45 PM
To be fair, the Warg really shouldn't prefer corpses to live beings.
Edit (since no one posted since I did):
I found a weird bug -- toxic fallout is supposed to corrode items, but it isn't mentioned when you select an item that is outside. Is it actually being degraded faster? I can't tell.
Not sure about items, but any pawn killed under rain instantly becomes rotten, so you can't survive fallout by hunting anymore.
Yet another... caravan feedback! \o/ (woooo)
Been doing some intense caravaning (who knew? D:) and to be honest, I find myself never use pemi or packaged food.
Why? Well, two reasons:
- It takes forever to make (considering other options)
- There is no way to prevent pawns from eating it, therefore wasting time and resources (no, I won't micromanage every single stack :V)
What I usually end up doing is simply slapping some raw vegetables on caravan and calling it a day. It is heavier, it is clunky, it gives debuffs, but honestly it isn't that much of a deal, compared to how bothersome making special food is.
Not sure how to resolve this, or all implications of what I think may be possible routes. So there goes:
- Make special caravan food less of a hassle to make (this includes its cost and ability to prevent pawns from eating it instead of regular food), maybe even make it an upgrade from regular food, so that we're only sacrificing some time preparing it (meal+work = packaged food? dunno). Problem: if you make it too easy to make, players will simply make lots of it instead of making a freezer. Killing off food shortage in power loss events and so on. Tough one
- Allow cooks in caravans to cook on the go. If caravan has a cook and caravan has raw materials, food treated as if it was simple meal. Of course cook skill affects the quality of meals and/or the amount he can actually make (to prevent people from taking lvl 3 cook to get rid of a penalty in 15 person caravan). If this is implemented, I think maybe you could even make food poisoning from eating raw meal on caravans more frequent (or severe). Maybe even add some diseases to the mix. As is taking raw food is simply the best option with little drawbacks.
At least it feels like it. D:
Text bug: mouseover text for 'Pretty environment' reads 'This place look nice'. Quite funny!
my opinion on traps:
there should be a trade off for the security and reuse ability they offer, also ever since I started laying them in a checherboard pattern so pawns can weave through them they haven't been an issue. Again, the onus is on the player to use the tool given to them in a good way.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 06, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
QuoteBut I can. I do it in my current game right now — my hunter is healthy, fast, has high accuracy, good quality weapon and one-two husky companions.
That's not what "solo" means :D. And cleaning is similar - it's a routine task that becomes necessary intermittently.
Isn't it? Well, it is unless you count huskies that are designated to follow and defend him as hunters, and they rarely take action. It's not "unnecessary micro" either. His colleague has no huskies, only his mastery, healthy (not bionic) legs and good sniper rifle — despite I check it when animals revenge them he also rarely needs too much attention.
I don't quite get it — what do you mean by "routine task"? He hunts
automatically at marked animals, same way for predators and herbivores, as any hunter does. Same way pawns automatically clean designated home area if set to clean in work priorities.
Hunting for dangerous animals alone with mediocre weapons and/or unhealthy pawn may indeed be too risky. But that is why they are called "dangerous".
Quote
If you don't do it, you run the risk of bad consequences (from mood hit, a significant risk on highest difficulties where you're a full -8 compared to default at all times). The game does it automatically and you're not at risk of pawn death from not optimizing this...but what if you were? What if you HAD to manually clean, or you'd lose people significantly more frequently? That's early 1.0 and earlier predators.
Then current solution is as to throw away cleaning at all. I don't think it is fair to compare something as
(supposed to be) dangerous as living among cobras and hungry wargs with just cleaning.
Same argument goes for raids, mechs and infestations. That's why it needs same alert, not being deleted.
As for
Quote
you're not at risk of pawn death from not optimizing this
it's not true. My injured solo colonist at NB start got food poisoning and fell to the ground outside his room the same time tribal attack happened. Solo tribal warrior just grabbed him and left.
Dirty kitchen ended my whole colony. :)
Quote
You distinguish hunting from draft fighting - but here's the thing. Hunting is dangerous, by design.
Well, shouldn't it be?
Quote
A single hunter can draw pack aggro or miss a few shots vs angry predator and get into big trouble/die, especially when you don't have animals to cover for you. If you draft hunt decently...that outcome is basically impossible. The cost/benefit and risk are disproportionately in favor of "draft hunting".
Again, shouldn't it be so? Same goes for hunting herbivores as well due to some of them have revenge chance too and pack of drafted pawns can kill them all way faster and safer being directly commanded rather than hunter doing his job. So what, carefully planned full group field operations are better at killing things than plain hunting, I see nothing wrong with that. It's not a
necessity, It's just a matter of preparation.
What's wrong with
this kind of death? It's not unjustified, сonversely it's well explained: pawn was mediocre shooter or just unlucky and had no back up, failed to run away and so he died hunting. That's a part of a story. Should pawns be immortal? Pawn can get unlucky hit through the brain and die, pawn can aggro muffalo or caribou herd and die, pawn can get heart attack far from base and die, pawn can be caught at the edge of a map by mechs or pirates suddenly landing nearby and die. Hell, once my pawn
decapitated another pawn by destroying his neck in
social fight!
Honestly.
There are even resurrection mech serums now.
6 pawns can get ambushed by 14 scythers on a rescue mission — and, well, most likely die if not fast enough to run away — on a side note about ambushes being scaled with colony wealth instead of caravan strength. It was scariest "no known threats" surprise ever. Quote
Suggestion: On a side note, I'd like to be able to designate a cleaning area. Auto-creation of home area forces a lot of zoning micro. Some stuff doesn't need to be cleaned routinely.
Auto-creation of home zone can be disabled.
Quote
QuoteWell, in my experience, it is already a thing. I've already tried to feed wild bears and wargs with raider corpses and they always preferred corpses in my case.
Definitely not. I don't have recorded footage like I have for a significant portion of the rest of my comments on this thread, but I have witnessed a wolf ignore a fresh animal corpse to the point of running past it to attack a pawn. I have also been "hunted" by predators multiple times despite having recently defended a raid (numerous raider corpses still on the ground, not rotted due to winter).
I have no idea what the predator targeting algorithm does or what it's supposed to do, but I can 100% verify that predators do not consistently target fresh meat that can't fight back over pawns. I have not tested this with butchered meat, but it's definitely the case for corpses.
Funny. I haven't experienced that yet, but I'll take your word for it. Guess manhunting predators food searching behavior worth being checked. If it returns I mean.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 06, 2018, 01:32:46 AM
Some changes are indeed experimental.
I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.
As I said above, I'm all for them in theory. But I'd ask, please think really hard on how to announce it - at least have a red letter for when a colonist has starting being hunted. It sucks to have carefully murdered all predators, then have a colonist meander off going for a walk and you only find out something's wrong the moment a surprise grizzly is mauling them.
To be completely clear: I'm not in any way adverse to the danger; I love it. Having lots of predators in a biome makes for a more interesting and challenging game! Just not a fan of "Oh, look, a colonist is dead" from a gameplay perspective.
A notification (when they start hunting, not when they attack) would be ideal.
Maybe even just a blanket "There's few prey animals on the map, and predators are getting hungry!" warning - this could serve to increase gameplay depth: keep lots of animals around and predators are very likely to leave you alone. Hunt all the prey animals (or not pay attention after an animal killing event) and you reap what you sow. Then you've got both gameplay and "realism" factors: Animals will generally not hunt humans when their normal prey is abundant.
Edit to add: Wouldn't a simpler solution be -
1) Leaving predators not hunting colonists.
2) Have predators, when starving (as in, beyond just the point where they'd hunt normal game) go manhunter exactly like the random "animal goes manhunter" event?
Manhunter generates a notification already, and utilizes already understood systems and behavior. Specifically, turrets will protect your colonists in these cases, as will other nearby colonists (if set to attack instead of flee combat).
Seen a lot of cases where pawn with >90% recreation stopping work and walking through half of the map to relax for a few seconds and get back. Especially notable for my quick sleeper pawn since she tends to be up at night.
Quote from: Wintersdark on July 06, 2018, 06:08:35 PM
Maybe even just a blanket "There's few prey animals on the map, and predators are getting hungry!" warning - this could serve to increase gameplay depth: keep lots of animals around and predators are very likely to leave you alone. Hunt all the prey animals (or not pay attention after an animal killing event) and you reap what you sow. Then you've got both gameplay and "realism" factors: Animals will generally not hunt humans when their normal prey is abundant.
This seems like the perfect solution. The problem was that there is very little you can do when a polar bear is in your face and you have e.g. a pistol. The notification when the hunt starts might be helpful, but even then there is often little time until the attack, and the predators can be faster than the colonists. Maybe the predators should only hunt colonists below a certain hunger threshold (if there are no other food sources) and at a higher threshold, there should be a yellow warning.
Quote from: robno on July 06, 2018, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: Wintersdark on July 06, 2018, 06:08:35 PM
Maybe even just a blanket "There's few prey animals on the map, and predators are getting hungry!" warning - this could serve to increase gameplay depth: keep lots of animals around and predators are very likely to leave you alone. Hunt all the prey animals (or not pay attention after an animal killing event) and you reap what you sow. Then you've got both gameplay and "realism" factors: Animals will generally not hunt humans when their normal prey is abundant.
This seems like the perfect solution. The problem was that there is very little you can do when a polar bear is in your face and you have e.g. a pistol. The notification when the hunt starts might be helpful, but even then there is often little time until the attack, and the predators can be faster than the colonists. Maybe the predators should only hunt colonists below a certain hunger threshold (if there are no other food sources) and at a higher threshold, there should be a yellow warning.
Yeah, as per my edit above, I'd like to see predators simply go "Manhunter" (with all that entails) when their hunger dips to "starving". It makes sense (if it's starving, your plump, juicy pawns are gonna look extra tasty), and it *works* because your other pawns and turrets will help defend a pawn being attacked instead of just ignoring it.
I really love that traps can now be springed by animals (whatever happens - please dont take it away). But it's a bit exploit'ey on winter maps w/o any natural food for animals - they will all charge to get any food that I leave (see screenshot).
Also funny thing about it: I had colonist get "run wild" mental state. I lost my sight on him for some time and was wondering where did he go. Found him dead on activated trap. Not sure if it's a bug (will report anyway).
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Madman666 on July 06, 2018, 03:46:48 PM
Imo animals shouldn't have x-ray vision spotting food through your walls from other corner of the map in the first place. And removing that will eliminate the problem with them always getting caught on traps.
They should, however, have a strong sense of smell which can pick up scents through cracks in doors and other only partially sealed obstructions. But mechanically speaking the abstractions would be close enough to the same thing to not matter.
Quote from: Mihsan on July 06, 2018, 04:35:53 PM
What's up with giant overpowered raids against my tribal colonies? All the time the same story: steady stream of weak raids and then suddenly this giant thing with doomsday launchers, power armor and miniguns... It looks off. Is this because I crafted that legendary wooden plate armor and masterwork marble table?
Same story. Master/legendary quality equipment add so much to colony value. Just raise from 500k to 850k in one year mostly because of equipping all my 30+ pawns with power armors and charge lances/rifles. With significant increasing of raids strenght. :'(
Excellent quipment set: helmet 1k, armor 3k, lance 2k, pants/shirt 0,5k and pawn itself 2k. 8,5k just in one pawn... Btw, legendary lance worth 8k, charge rifle 6k, sniper rifle 3.2k. 4x times more than excellent with almost same stats. :-\ Probably a good idea stick to good/excellent and just burn a better. ???
PS What the soft cap on pawns count? I have 32 now and still have decent chances on recruiting. Also have quest on incapacited refugee...
Has anyone else had an issue with the options on the tailoring bench overflowing the available menu space? With the way it is I can't set the resume options on any of my clothing production lines.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Wintersdark on July 06, 2018, 06:36:08 PM
Yeah, as per my edit above, I'd like to see predators simply go "Manhunter" (with all that entails) when their hunger dips to "starving". It makes sense (if it's starving, your plump, juicy pawns are gonna look extra tasty), and it *works* because your other pawns and turrets will help defend a pawn being attacked instead of just ignoring it.
Manhunting does not really work here as it is now since manhunters don't eat downed pawns. They don't even finish them off. Which actually makes manhunter much less of a threat than a predator. Manhunter's victim almost always can be saved, but a predator aims to kill.
I've just finished my run, successfully evacuating 10 out of my 12 colonists from the planet. Play settings were as follows...
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic, Rough, Permadeath
Scenario: Naked Brutality
Location: Temperate Forest (40/60), Flat, Ancient asphalt highway bisecting a Huge river
Time Taken: 467 ingame days
I've also attached some screenshots (excuse the JPEG on some; had to get under 600 Kb somehow). If you're wondering who Sheba is, she's a timber wolf who ended up sustaining two brain injuries (3/10 brain, one from an ibex leg, another from a deer leg), as well as multiple missing body parts (her jaw, an eye and so on); she was so weak that she'd even fail to hunt rats owing to her absolutely atrocious 8% melee accuracy.
Now, I shall share my experiences and thoughts throughout this run...
The Ending: If there's one way to describe the ship ending sequence in 1.0 unstable, I'd have to say that it's certainly engaging yet borderline punishing in terms of difficulty. I've been willing to sacrifice a lot more over my colony's final 15 days, knowing that this is the final push before ultimately escaping the planet (or hopelessly perishing). Raids are frequent enough for the most part that they keep you on your toes, allowing just enough time to recover, but not enough to get comfortable.
That being said though, the final 24 hours were particularly difficult to get through, getting four mechanoid raids (one haywire, three centre-drop) within the space of about 10 ingame hours; there was no recovering, basically being one big battle. In fact, I probably wouldn't have made it to the end if if wasn't for the fact that all 12 of my colonists were decked out in full sets of power armour, mostly of at least good quality. At the end of the onslaught, I felt weary, along with how my colonists probably would've felt if they were real people.
Raids: The new raid types (groups and haywire pods) throw a refreshing spice into the mix, and kept me on my toes too. However, I've also found it challenging to keep track of enemies with both of these raid types, especially with mechanoid raids since mechanoids don't have red name tags unlike hostile humanlikes. As a result, I often ended up missing one or two enemies post-defence when experiencing the mechanoid variants of these raids, only noticing them when they kill a colony animal or start harassing a colonist.
As various others have pointed out too, I've also found centre-drop mechanoid raids to be somewhat common, even with the latest build. While challenging, it can get old over time. Pirate raids were rather rare in my experience until the very endgame after 'befriending' both the hostile tribe and the rough outlander union. Most of my big threats were either mechanoids or outlanders.
Regarding death-on-downed, I'm torn: one part of me agrees that this is overtuned since I've been hard-pressed to find decent recruits from raids, but another part of me somewhat likes this since it's a 'beggars can't be choosers' type of deal.
Weapons: Melee weapons have definitely become much more viable in 1.0 compared to B18, owing to their DPS bump as well as the nerf to ranged weapon melee DPS and the fact that all ranged weapons have a minimum range of 1.5 (why these are defined per weapon def rather than just the abstract bases for ranged weapons still baffles me, but I digress). I've generally stuck to gladii rather than longswords though since they're significantly cheaper while offering most of the performance, but this is just classic diminishing returns and is fine as it is.
There are two main things that I'm not so keen on though: the changes to weapons like the assault rifle, and ranged stagger. Two-burst shots with the AR and CR just don't feel right in my honest opinion considering that the real-life equivalent (at least for the former) would have a burst mode which fires 3 shots. Subjective, I know, but I personally would've preferred treating the AR as an 11-damage weapon and just define its AP based on that, while leaving it as a 7-damage weapon with a 3-shot burst, and similarly with the charge rifle.
Ranged stagger is a whole other beast though, and I definitely believe this should be changed. A 95-tick duration of slowing down a pawn to 1/6th of their normal speed regardless of the difference between stopping power and body size is very potent, and I've personally found that the ability to stagger has been a significant factor in deciding what weapons I use. In this run, bar a few exceptions, I've generally stuck to the revolver and bolt-action rifle until mid-game (completely avoiding the heavy SMG which I used to favour), then transitioning to LMGs and charge lances. The only non-staggering weapon that I'd really consider using after this run is the minigun due to its very strong DPS and the fact that it matches the assault rifle in range.
It's also odd that a longbow can stagger centipedes, yet a high-powered sniper rifle can't.
Suggestion and all, but I'd personally replace the flat 95-tick duration a method call that does something like this:
- Pass stoppingPower and target's bodySize as parameters
- Assign a variable who's value is determined by this: (stoppingPower - bodySize) / stoppingPower
- Make a SimpleCurve with the points (1, 1), (0.8, 1), (0, 0.2)
- Return the product of: 120 * SimpleCurve.Evaluate(variable)
- In return, all weapons will have a stoppingPower, maybe their damage * 0.1. Of course, there may be some special cases like with shotguns where you could multiply by a further 1.5.
I've also found rocket launchers to be woefully underwhelming when I or the AI used them, practically bouncing off of power armour due to their mere 5% AP, similarly with mortar shells. Sure, power armour is meant to be strong, but it shouldn't be able to render rockets virtually useless. It'd also be nice if AP per damage varied per damage type; stabs would be more effective at piercing armour than cuts, for instance - this'd also give spears and iklwas an interesting niche.
Regarding turrets, I've used all three existing turret types in my run. Thoughts on the two new turret types are as follows...
Autocannon Turret - its practicality as it stands is fairly limited, only really being able to get hits off against mechanoids and 2+ bodysize animals; it's pretty weak against anything else. Then again, I can see how this'd be design as almost specifically an anti-mechanoid turret owing to its AP - it goes down easily in mechanoid fights though with pretty much any mechanoid type, owing to its 200% target size and the fact it's somewhat flammable. However, it's a waste of steel even having it bother in non-mechanoid/large animal combat, but I could also just set the turret to hold fire.
Sniper Turret - Not so much a sniper turret but rather a long-ranged quasi-machine gun turret with its high fire rate and damage seemingly compensating for its poor accuracy at its optimal distances. I thought that the autocannon turret was niche and barely practical, but this takes things to a whole other level. It misses most shots against anything that isn't a large target, which means that maintaining it becomes a huge burden on steel if not micromanaging that 'hold fire' functionality.
On the note of maintenance though, I do like that turrets now have a tangible upkeep, and this'd also open up more opportunities for modders to make interesting and unique turrets.
Finally, relating to weapons, it'd be nice if the 'Destroy weapons' bill didn't default to allowing orbital beacon weapons to be destroyed. I thankfully caught a colonist in the act of doing so, but other people may not notice so if they have a smelter with said bill active, then they go and get an orbital weapon and get confused about where it's gone once returning.
Apparel & Textiles: While I do really like the condensation of textiles, some of the changes to apparel I've found slightly less desirable, and I'll go through each individually.
Materials - There's a notable discrepancy between leathers/fabrics and wood/metals: inspect heavy fur, then inspect plasteel. While this has no gameplay impact since leather and metal are strictly separated, it certainly does affect the flavour. I have no doubt that heavy fur is strong, but I highly doubt it'd even be as strong as steel at a given thickness, let alone plasteel. It gets worse with textiles like thrumbofur and hyperweave which both apparently massively surpass plasteel. Perhaps reduce the StuffPowers and increase the factors of general clothing items, because this is
lItErAlLy UnPlAyAbLe.
The Flak Jacket - I was skeptical of it when first seeing it, and that skepticism remains right now: why the
flak does this even exist? It doesn't fill any new niches, and I'd much rather take a bearskin (or better) duster which offers very similar protection levels but has vastly superior insulation and covers the legs! Sure, the flak jacket covers the neck, but frankly so should ordinary jackets, dusters and parkas.
Apparel balance in general - I'm still not sure why apparel movement speed and work speed penalties were removed. Additionally, there's no longer any differences between parkas, jackets and dusters when it comes to protection amounts, when there used to be in the past (parkas < jackets ~= dusters). I feel that this has removed some of the depth from the game, which isn't a good thing, but that's just because of the type of player I am.
All of those issues aside, and ending this section on a positive note: I do quite like the new armour system. While there are cases where something like a sniper rifle bullet could tear through power armour as if it were made out of paper and perforate one of the unlucky victim's vital organs, it's been made quite a bit clearer and the blunt conversion mechanic is nice.
Also, unlike the flak jacket, flak pants are a nice addition to the family!
Animals: This run has been particularly animal-heavy, and I've enjoyed doing so. Unfortunately there's still the issue with malnutrition when there's a large amount of animals and relatively few reservable food piles (zone restrictions to encourage kibble eating), but that's relatively minor since the animals will be force-fed once they pass out from extreme malnutrition. I like the upkeep required to keep animals trained since it's both a balancing act and also helps combat handler skill decay.
Another addition that's pretty neat is that animals can get diseases, which again favours per-unit strength rather than a boar zerg.
In combat though, especially with gunfights or predators when hunting, I've noticed that animals can quite quickly accumulate brain injuries which soon renders them practically inert - this also being not being helped by the removal of trauma savantism for animals which used to give them a second chance of sorts, as well as a manipulation boost which benefitted their melee accuracy. I've had a lot of animals either die from brain injuries, or from 0% consciousness as a result of a brain injury, pain shock, and usually 'severe' rather than 'extreme' blood loss (this also being a cause of confusion for newer players). I have adapted to the latter though by having really quick doctors patch them ASAP without using any medicine.
Tail loss also seems to be common, with most tailed animals losing their tails before anything else.
It's also hard taming new animals once the colony has a lot of predators since the predators will still hunt animals that have been marked for taming whenever possible. Perhaps there should be a food preferability offset for cases like this, only being applied if the predator is obedience-trained. On the other hand, this could be seen as a counterbalance.
Also although it may be intentional that animals aren't meant to be smart with food selection, perhaps they could be a little smarter if, again, they're obedience-trained; it gets quite tedious with zone restricting large amounts of animals. This'd also give obedience training more of a purpose outside of being a prerequisite.
Caravanning: Probably one of my favourite changes for 1.0 is the much-improved caravan forming UI, much-improved caravan rewards, and the ability to forage on the go. Quality of Life here has definitely improved, and it's a pleasure to see caravans automatically go to their first destination once exiting the map, which, it's also nice to see that they go to the part of the map that corresponds with their designated world travel direction.
While I occasionally caravanned in B18, I snapped up many opportunities in the mid-game to caravan since the rewards were too good to pass up. That being said though, and as is typical with late-game, offers soon became less tempting (why have an excellent pump when you can make an excellent LMG).
It's also great to see that packaged survival meals are now viable travel rations, and I've always ensured that I built up a decent stock of them when going on mining expeditions or just bringing large parties in general; I previously avoided them like the plague due to their expenses and the fact that they had less per-gram nutrition than pemmican. Thanks for changing this!
Plasteel: With the emphasis on plasteel being rarer, I don't feel that this has really been achieved; I still have no problems with filling up my plasteel reserves in storage from mechanoid raids alone. Most of the time, turrets like sniper turrets would actually work out being cheaper than autocannon turrets in reality, at the stage one'd consider making them.
Miscellaneous Thoughts: This is just a list of various other thoughts which I haven't really built up on enough to put them into their own categories.
What I like:
- More faction hostilities. I had a savage tribal caravan (got goodwill from releasing prisoners) and gentle tribal caravan arrive at the same time and they started duking it out right outside my base, using my bunkers. Free goodwill, medical exp and items! Manhunter bears showed up right near the end of the fight.
- The new textures are gorgeous! larSyn did a great job.
- Many Quality of Life improvements! (Better Workbench Management, Allow Tool, I Can Fix It etc.)
- Click-and-drag medicine setting and checkboxing. This has saved me a lot of time!
- Bridges, watermill generators and underwater conduits make river maps actually have a noteworthy purpose
- Centipedes are actually worthy adversaries now, rather than a joke
- Recreation matters now! It's nice for it to actually be something to invest in to take full advantage of, rather than just slap down a horseshoe pin and forget
- Plant regrow mechanics are pretty good; no more grass halos with a barren centre!
- More lore references (e.g. archotech parts, johnson-tanaka drive research renaming)
- Tidying up of the research tree
- Flavourful social chat system! Some combinations can be pretty damn amusing.
- The new traits are pretty neat
- Hunting. No more shooting all 5 limbs off a quadruped just to kill it!
- Notifications being archived. Although I wish it could be made clearer that you can pin notifications, and that notifications go back further than a quadrum or so. A search filter would also be nice.
- Deep drill infestations add a bit of risk to deep drilling, rather than just mostly fire and forget
- Generalising 'Inspired Art' to 'Inspired Creativity'. I'll actually go out of my way to make sure that an inspired colonist makes the most of their inspiration (high-grade manufacture, investing in wake-up)
- Masterwork and legendary qualities feel much more meaningful than they did before. The condensation of quality in general too
- Minimum skill levels for crafting recipes. Creates interesting dilemmas for scenarios like Naked Brutality!
- The component assembly bench has gotten some love
- Pawns aren't inconsiderate jerks and no longer observe art in other peoples' rooms
- The ability to move around smaller workbenches
- Extension of the deterioration mechanics is pretty cool
- Production of prostheses and bionics feels reasonably balanced
- Soaking Wet is the new Ate Without Table. How dwarven! Even power armour can't save one from this thought.
- Space salmonella is no joke
What I dislike:
- The fact that traps can no longer affect colonists or allies. This is just illogical in general, and it just means you can spam traps literally everywhere without giving second thought to it - so long as you have the resources
- Predators no longer hunting colonists. However, this is basically irrelevant at this point.
- Some other renamings (e.g. difficulties, gravel -> sToNy SoIl). I feel that some of the game's flavour is being sucked out here
- Heavy SMG is an Uzi, which is a 9x19mm weapon - not a high-caliber round. A more suitable weapon would probably be something like the UMP45
- Continuous nerfing to watermill's powergen. Maybe increase it back to 1200W or 1400W, but make it require a 'Hydroelectricity' research project
- There still aren't really any ways to fix up animals other than healer mech serum. Even some really basic prostheses like peg legs and dentures would be pretty neat
- There's no way to reserve animal beds for strictly medical purposes (something which'd be useful to have with animal diseases due to the immunity gain bonus)
- Still somewhat skeptical of the fact that elite mercenaries can no longer use charge weapons
Conclusion: Overall, I've enjoyed testing 1.0 unstable, and having my fully-committed test run be under the new scenario is all-the-more satisfying. Sure, things will be a little rough around the edges, but that's to be expected for public testing; that is the purpose of it after all!
I do have some gameplay concerns, mainly with things like apparel stat simplification, and I sure hope that nothing else gets simplified to the same degree, but hopefully those concerns will go.
Thanks for reading!
[attachment deleted due to age]
One thing about autocannons xeo: they do definitely wreck centipedes like nothing else. They're also kind of best used the same way you'd use turrets regarding accuracy: Perimeter wall to limit range so the enemy has to get closish. I find them actually best used with their min range right up against the gates so that even if they can't hit everything coming at them they always have a target and always hit centipedes who stay at the edge. That requires a bit o fire support, but that's not a bad thing :)
Playing more of my own game, cabin fever really feels like its a relic of the time before infestations with the state its in regarding mountain bases. It's pretty annoying having to draft pawns and push them outside. I've allowed them outside to cloudwatch and put a horsehoe pin outside to force them out every now and then, and this is simply insufficient.
Limiting the debuff to -6, but making it much harder to remove, would at least make it so mountain players or players suffering a toxic fallout can just take the hit and deal with bad mood.
Or just make it very easy to remove and hard to put on so if pawns ever go outside it goes away. Either way, I just hate the way it is now :(
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on July 06, 2018, 03:07:32 PM
I miss natural tornadoes. Once Tynan removed them, there has been only 1 feedback regarding this, who said that they were a useless addition. I have a conversation with other RW players discussing Tynan's updates and one of them said that he'd stop playing if tornado incidents don't happen in the final build.
I won't speak for his reasons, I will speak mine. I kinda liked this feature in B18. The thrill if it doesn't hit my colony. Twice I had to rebuild my power sources after tornadoes. Stone walls were receiving slight damage due to them, but it wasn't that serious. It becomes more of an issue with a larger colony, as it's more likely to hit your buildings. Maybe I haven't experienced this destroying my legendary beds or wiping out all my medicine but this incident may create many interesting stories.
I'd rather not have them. It's not the tornado itself that's the issue. It's the fact that I have literally zero way to mitigate or protect myself. Huge swam of bad guys comes down I at least can TRY to kill em, or traps, or use my brain. Tornado is just pure random RNG with zero control for the player. It's pray and hope it doesn't run right over the middle of your colony and auto kill all your colonists who were near it.
If there were a lot more features built around the tornado, like ways to protect yourself or prevent it and it wasn't so RNG all or nothing than I wouldn't mind it really.
Wow it's... pretty amusing looking at that mood graph compared to mine. I guess my colony is like some kind of viking berserker colony in comparison. I think if I joywired everyone the mood would still be worse on average ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Mihsan on July 06, 2018, 04:35:53 PM
Made new tribe with 1.0.1956. Flat area, tropical swamp with river. Extra hard Randy.
Wanted to grow cocoa trees. They suck. It takes too much time to plant them and result is unsatisfactory given growth time and used space.
Love how bridges work on such kind of map. It gives flexibility to build almost anywhere, but still it has huge price behind it even with ~infinite ammounts of wood around.
What's up with giant overpowered raids against my tribal colonies? All the time the same story: steady stream of weak raids and then suddenly this giant thing with doomsday launchers, power armor and miniguns... It looks off. Is this because I crafted that legendary wooden plate armor and masterwork marble table?
It's not just you. I'm having a ton of difficulty with tribal games even on lower difficulty settings. I posted about it in another thread. For me the issue is scaling. There is no waaaaaaaaay I can get my tech or even loots up fast enough to compete with some of the earlier big raids. I'm struggling to even get electricity a lot of the time even. It feels like the research numbers are not scaled right to the difficulty increase of the game and the addition of lots of extra steps to get to different places in the tech tree. I'm usually still using bows or garbage pistols when dudes start showing up with decent armor and higher tier stuff, or when mechs start coming.
Quote from: dnmr on July 06, 2018, 12:09:48 PM
could we please get some sort of an indicator next to pawn portraits if their caravan is idle? I seem to miss the notifications sometimes.
Also on the subject of QoL, why does the "haul things" tool only work on junk? Can there be a way to prioritize hauling collected crops from the fields?
+1I also want a "Prioritization" of haul items, not just automatically based on proximity. Also, in early Lost Tribe game, I had issue with Building using wood. The construction would automatically prioritize walls, which is an optimal default I appreciated, but occasionally I wanted coolers/bonfire or other furnitures that required wood, but all would be "hauled" to the walls. I just stopped wall building for a while to get all other items done. The player should decide what is collected first, and what is built with or made with such resources first rather than an "unchangeable" game-self-set choice.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1433845951
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1433846166
I will set meals to a particular number and if the meal is not in the stockpile the cook continues to make more than the set amount. I do not recall this happening prior, do not know if it is intended.
This has happened in several biomes and various map types. This particular run is Naked Brutality on Hard, but it happened on Cassandra Hard also.
Thank you
Quote from: botaxalim on July 06, 2018, 11:20:19 AM
Animal predatory change. Check map for food, if none herbivore animal present, check for colonist pet, if none kill the nearest human for food. The point is we can avoid random predator eating our colonist, as the player maintain animal ecosystem on the map so the predator not ran out prey/food. Maybe add warning when last wild herbivore animal extict. If player kill all animal except predator, its their own fault if predator attack them
I'm just quoting one response, but I read many others and I'm glad people realized that removing Predators attacks flattens the game by completely taking out flavoring texture. By the read based on comments scan, it is easy to tell most people don't play harsh biomes like Ice Sheet for example. Any player who has ventured there and built a city wall around knows and loves with a passion to have Predators roaming around your base...simply because there's no need to traverse a whole map to hunt it but you just have it "right there" like served on a silver plate...
...and of course...this applies just the same for the TORNADO... Like really...
I played sooo... many games with Tornados busting through my base...and I said to myself "meh...", rebuilt what was destroyed...and just kept playing... The Steel Slags can easily be made back to raw steel.
I find it really hilarious how people ask for "countermeasures"... How do you want to deal with a tornado? By getting a Ghostbusters "Proton Pack" to suck it in?
Going back to the Predators... they always work for me as an "extra colonist", as they hunt for me without me having to send somebody, but only to haul their left overs to the freezer.
How many times a predator hunted a raider? Or a trade caravan...and the surprise of it? People don't realize that removing predator attack on characters
reduces storytelling to boring levels and how unentertaining becomes if get "alert notifications" for that... we are in the wild! We crash landed!...to the middle of nowhere...
Stop eternally living in the cradle, don't be forever in your comfort zone, go get the adventures.
I think most people would like it if it was just easier to know that predators were there in a common sense way your colonists would notice.
I'm pretty sure if your colonist saw a bear, he wouldn't derp around cloudwatching right next to it.
Regarding tornados, I think people were more annoyed that it could appear right on top of your colonists. You can't rebuild corpses ::)
Quote from: Zombull on July 06, 2018, 03:11:53 PM
I don't mind dealing with predators. I just need to know they're there. Maybe just show a notification on screen any time a colonist sees a predator. Colonists with limited eyesight wouldn't see them as far away.
+1This! I said it many times, and I will say it again...I'm an outdoorsy, I love nature, I go to the wild myself and with friends. Anybody who leaves the comfort of home knows it... when you are out there... we all tell each other what we saw outside and the dangers to keep others safe. I would love an icon display pretty much like love with a heart, a smiley for kind words...
I would love to have a dialogue bubble of exclamation marks like this: (!!!)...as in saying spotted a predator while I was outside that triggers on everybody else as the witness gets into range of other colonists. Then based on the player customized task, one can know where the pawn was walking around and send a tracking expedition to hunt the threat.
We could also have cage traps for the big games...pretty much like in Real Life.
Well this is weird. After breaking a siege some of the enemies start going for my base.
The others? Shooting... caribou? Wha...?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on July 07, 2018, 12:43:20 AM
Well this is weird. After breaking a siege some of the enemies start going for my base.
The others? Shooting... caribou? Wha...?
What did the caribou ever do to them :P ?
Oooooh.. heh.. I think it self joined a while back and I must ave never rezoned it ::)
Looks like they rooted out my caribou spy 8)
Quote from: Mihsan on July 06, 2018, 06:36:49 PM
I really love that traps can now be springed by animals (whatever happens - please dont take it away). But it's a bit exploit'ey on winter maps w/o any natural food for animals - they will all charge to get any food that I leave (see screenshot).
I don't think that "exploit'ey", since your screenshot show what is basicaly a big mousetrap, a piece of food, and a big trap on it. It is still working in our era. I'm sure a beartrap and some meat could catch some animal in the forest.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 07, 2018, 12:08:54 AM
I'm just quoting one response, but I read many others and I'm glad people realized that removing Predators attacks flattens the game by completely taking out flavoring texture. By the read based on comments scan, it is easy to tell most people don't play harsh biomes like Ice Sheet for example. Any player who has ventured there and built a city wall around knows and loves with a passion to have Predators roaming around your base...simply because there's no need to traverse a whole map to hunt it but you just have it "right there" like served on a silver plate...
...and of course...this applies just the same for the TORNADO... Like really...
I played sooo... many games with Tornados busting through my base...and I said to myself "meh...", rebuilt what was destroyed...and just kept playing... The Steel Slags can easily be made back to raw steel.
I find it really hilarious how people ask for "countermeasures"... How do you want to deal with a tornado? By getting a Ghostbusters "Proton Pack" to suck it in?
Going back to the Predators... they always work for me as an "extra colonist", as they hunt for me without me having to send somebody, but only to haul their left overs to the freezer. How many times a predator hunted a raider? Or a trade caravan...and the surprise of it? People don't realize that removing predator attack on characters reduces storytelling to boring levels and how unentertaining becomes if get "alert notifications" for that... we are in the wild! We crash landed!...to the middle of nowhere...
Stop eternally living in the cradle, don't be forever in your comfort zone, go get the adventures.
Its less about countermeasures and more about interactivity. Whats the point of having something thats totally random, with no way to interact, prevent, or have to think/play around being in the game? By your logic there could be events that just pop up and say 'everyone died, game over' and it should somehow be OK and we should just live outside our comfort zone.. Tornados just need more added to them if they are going to be in the game because they are an all or nothing kind of event. Toxic fallout? Manage your roofs and outdoor time, have to spend time thinking how to handle food crops, sickness, etc. Risk management is there. Tornado? Just hope RNGesus spawns it elsewhere because if it comes near you're just screwed. Other then running your pawns manually away from it and hope there just isn't much fun, building, planning, or anything really associated with it.
As for predators, I've said this before. I'm totally cool with animals that hit starving starting to hunt colonists, but we need a pop up warning and pause before it happens. This is not the same as the manhunter or revenge stuff that I think some people are mistaking it for. When a predator gets hungry it gets HANGRY and if your pawn is anywhere close to it, closer then other wildlife, you tend not to find out until after its already biting his face off and get the colonist needs treatment pop up, and at that point he's pretty much dead unless he was already geared for melee war.
If you play on any of the biomes with a lot of wild life, like temperate for example, one of the "easiest" and recommended ways for a new player, it becomes quite impossible to micro manage watching every single predator on the map and see who is near hungry, or try to hunt them all out (manually or via priority hunting) because new ones will spawn in on the map edges fairly quickly.
I do like the changes to hunting otherwise. It's nice that I can send someone out with a bolt action and have them hunt bears with less risk of getting eaten every single time. And requires less micro managing on my part to manually have to draft a group and run around hunting them. Colony sims like this should not be one giant game of micro management.
After playing the current build for a few hours, I really like where the raids are with respect to my ability to handle them. I'm challenged by them and they are interesting to deal with, without (yet at least) completely overwhelming my colony after a previous raid that was well under 1/4 the threat level (all perceived, of course, but man I had some crazy rampups of raids in past versions).
I don't know if it's that I'm getting better or what, but I don't think so. Before I was bored with raids because they were too easy, up until the point where one stomped me to death. Now they seem to roughly follow my preparedness for them without ever being super easy or super tough.
Cassandra Regular in a 50/60 mountain forest. AKA easy mode because I'm a wuss :D
New build!
I'm sick, so slowing down slightly in recent days.
----
Added translation info window on main menu.
Fix: World refugee quest incident not related to population intent.
Chance of infection is reduced for small wounds.
Adjusted threat points curve to be a bit less brutal in the early-midgame.
Adjust trap mechanics.
Added flak armor research.
Reduce animal leather amount (but keep it higher than B18). Reduce mechanoid butcher products. Slightly faster wall building and mining. Extend door close time. Speed up thrumbo.
Reduce parka armor.
More apparel covers the neck.
Integrate flak jacket art.
When a predator is hunting a colonist we now send a letter.
Needs tab is now hidden for wild animals.
Predators can now hunt humanlikes at medium difficulty or above.
Ancient shrines now always contain mechanoids or hives.
Quality now affects ranged weapons damage and armor penetration.
It's no longer possible for visitors/traders/travelers to arrive if there's already a hostile but non-hostile to player group on the map (e.g. visitors from another non-hostile to player faction, but hostile to other visitors). The same applies to called traders (they'll wait before entering the map).
Made shield belt more common among quest rewards.
Armor slows pawns a little bit once again.
Rebalance melee a bit, standardize cooldowns.
Buff all sharp melee weapons' damage ~10%. Refactor and correct melee weapon debug table.
Adjust some biome plant densities.
Adjust some biome animal densities.
Remove efficiency malus from power claw.
Rebalance Alphabeavers.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
It's no longer possible for visitors/traders/travelers to arrive if there's already a hostile but non-hostile to player group on the map (e.g. visitors from another non-hostile to player faction, but hostile to other visitors). The same applies to called traders (they'll wait before entering the map).
Hope you feel better soon, Tynan, and thanks for still plugging away at this while you're under the weather!
Regarding tonight's (this morning's) update - is there any chance of reconsidering the change above?
I can see good reasons for removing that event for gameplay balance (free loot/free faction relations improvement if you save the wounded), but (to me) those are much less important than how cool it is seeing two hostile factions shoot it out. It really is very entertaining, and memorable. I'd personally be fine if you could find a way to get rid of
any player advantage, so long as they continue to rip each other to shreds. Just a thought...
And - thank you very much for re-introducing Predator attacks. I never thought I/we would be asking for someone to bring back grizzlies tearing our faces off, but...here we are. :)
Feel better. We can harvest you some new kidneys IRL, if it'll help...the Dark Web is only ever a click away.
Don't kill yourself, a build a day doesn't keep the doctor away :P Working yourself half to death is for when you fully release a game :D
Tynan, it's looking good! Sorry you're not feeling well.
A note about bridges. It seems odd to not be able to build flooring on bridges. It says terrain can't support that, but it's a piece of carpet for heaven's sake. Some of us are weird and want things to look pretty. Building in swamps almost requires the use of bridges as foundation and not being able to pretty them up makes me kind of sad.
Poking around in the TerrainDefs I think I understand the technical limitation. Is overcoming that on your too-long list of things to do already? Maybe give TerrainDefs a way of "inheriting" certain affordances if they're provided by the underlying terrain?
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
New build!
I'm sick, so slowing down slightly in recent days.
----
Chance of infection is reduced for small wounds.
Tynan feeling his own mortality with illness has granted us an infection nerf! praise the gods! :D :D :D :D
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
Adjusted threat points curve to be a bit less brutal in the early-midgame.
yaaaaaaaay! my tribe might survive a lil longer now.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
Adjust trap mechanics.
Added flak armor research.
oh gnoes, one more thing for tribes to have to get through to survive? :(
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
Reduce animal leather amount (but keep it higher than B18). Reduce mechanoid butcher products. Slightly faster wall building and mining. Extend door close time. Speed up thrumbo.
Reduce parka armor.
More apparel covers the neck.
Integrate flak jacket art.
When a predator is hunting a colonist we now send a letter.
Hurray for predator letters!
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
Needs tab is now hidden for wild animals.
Predators can now hunt humanlikes at medium difficulty or above.
Well shit.....LOL
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
Ancient shrines now always contain mechanoids or hives.
Quality now affects ranged weapons damage and armor penetration.
It's no longer possible for visitors/traders/travelers to arrive if there's already a hostile but non-hostile to player group on the map (e.g. visitors from another non-hostile to player faction, but hostile to other visitors). The same applies to called traders (they'll wait before entering the map).
Made shield belt more common among quest rewards.
Armor slows pawns a little bit once again.
Rebalance melee a bit, standardize cooldowns.
Buff all sharp melee weapons' damage ~10%. Refactor and correct melee weapon debug table.
Adjust some biome plant densities.
Adjust some biome animal densities.
Remove efficiency malus from power claw.
Rebalance Alphabeavers.
Neat. I haven't even seen alphabeavers at all since 1.0. I was starting to think they got removed. Not super happy about armor slowing pawns down again but that's fine with me. It's how it was in prior versions anyway.
Thanks! When I get off work I'm going to start yet another new tribe start and prepare for misery and pain.
I hope you are feeling better soon @tynan .. I know this must be a challenge to keep up with.
I am truly interested to see the new changes ... but ...
"It's no longer possible for visitors/traders/travelers to arrive if there's already a hostile but non-hostile to player group on the map (e.g. visitors from another non-hostile to player faction, but hostile to other visitors). The same applies to called traders (they'll wait before entering the map)."
... this saddens me
BUT .. i am also happy predators can return to being proper predators once again.
I can see why you'd want traders to wait until one from rival faction leaves to avoid exploiting faction relations and bloating of colony wealth via all the free stuff they drop. But nevertheless this change is no fun at all :( Its was really funny and hilarious to watch them shoot each other, while also wrecking your stuff with nades and incendiaries. I d much rather have them drop relations with you if they encounter each other on your land due to you working with their enemies.
Good thing predators are dangerous again and with notification it won't be quite as annoying as it was when they just killed someone and you couldn't do anything, cause it was way too late.
Also get better soon, Tynan, and don't push yourself, we need you healthy and creative :D
Suddenly the armor is nerf. Plate armor -0.8, power armor -0.4 ,flak jaket -0.12 ,flak vest -0.12, flak pant -0.12
1.0 start. I like it because the movement speed of the armor and the parka has increased.
But now it slows down again.
It is impossible to change during the battle, and the speed of the world map movement is also problematic.
Is it for reality?
-0.4 and -0.8... Damn. Well here goes the concept of us keeping everyone armored for added survivability. With such a speed penalty survivability is what will suffer the most.
Please play with it before theorizing.
(It's actually just bringing back something that was in B18, after all.)
I didn't use much armor in B18, because it took ages to craft and squirrels could still take your eyes out despite you using it. On that front current mechanic is much better. But it won't take much playing (or theorycrafting on that matter) to say that in this game a slow pawn is a dead pawn.
Same thing I said early in this thread - before you react to something you see on a change list, it's worth considering that it may be 10 times weaker or stronger than you imagine. If it's 10 times weaker, your opinion would be different. But there's no way to know until you play it.
In this case, the human move rate is 4.61 c/s. Flak armor removes 0.12 each. That's a 2.6% slowdown. Wear all the flak armor and then your pawn moves 8% slower than usual. You can make that up with a bionic leg, etc.
It's not that big a deal, I think, but I want to see it play and balance it going forward. What's not useful is experience-free theorizing, so I'm asking that everyone please not do that.
I'm so happy I have a little less of a chance of dying to a rat scratch on naked brutality now. I might make it a whole season this time. ;)
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 05:28:01 AM
Same thing I said early in this thread - before you react to something you see on a change list, it's worth considering that it may be 10 times weaker or stronger than you imagine. If it's 10 times weaker, your opinion would be different. But there's no way to know until you play it.
In this case, the human move rate is 4.61 c/s. Flak armor removes 0.12 each. That's a 2.6% slowdown. Wear all the flak armor and then your pawn moves 8% slower than usual. You can make that up with a bionic leg, etc.
It's not that big a deal, I think, but I want to see it play and balance it going forward. What's not useful is experience-free theorizing, so I'm asking that everyone please not do that.
Yeah, but what if you wear like 8 flak jackets? then it would be like a 50% reduction. We should totally crunch some more numbers on some "what if" scenarios here.
More seriously though, with the latest changes, is there a specific way that you're hoping people will play? I only ask because a lot of the old strategies no longer work at all. Much like back in the days when scary and IED's were removed (the first time).
Any pointers?
Quote from: Albion on July 07, 2018, 05:35:29 AM
This is a bit theorycrafty but I'm curious: what was the idea behind it?
Making legendary weapons legendary.
Before we could only buff accuracy, but even if you take it to 100% there's a low limit to what it can do. E.g. assault rifle has 80% weapon accuracy, buffing it to 100% only increases DPS by a quarter. It'll still miss a lot because of the shooter, or cover, etc. A 25% buff isn't enough for legendary, we need more.
It's gonna get balanced, I suspect the quality impact is too high now but we'll see.
I could argue, that Rimworld rarely contains normal humans (without health ailments that is) with unaffected move speed and that further -8% stacking with other penalties could mean a difference between dodging\escaping something or getting rekt, or that equipping every colonist with a bionic leg to compensate for wearing a flak set is a tad much, but i ll abstain from further theorizing as you asked.
Instead i'll switch to another topic of world map events scaling to your colony wealth. I did some experimenting with my colony of 15 people (Randy, Hard, flat temperate forest) and mining sites from mineral scanner and was unpleasantly surprised, that with wealth level of 200-300k (i had around 290k-ish when scanner picked up my first silver lump) sending anything less than 3\4 of my colony is a suicide run. The site said it was unguarded, so naturally i thought about an ambush. I send 5 solid people in power armors with assault rifles (1 medic, 3 miners and one dedicated soldier with 14 shooting) and 5 muffaloes to see what can i get.
Instead of getting anything of value as soon as i approached the lump (which was pleasantly big), i got jumped by 16 (!) raiders. It was a hilarious mess of a slugfest in completely open space without any kind of cover aside from occasional trees, some of raiders even with ranged weapons for some weird reason kept coming in melee range preventing my people from shooting. As a result i lost my hole caravan with their expensive equipment, marking the start of death spiral with constant mental breaks from having lost family members and friends, promtly ended by a drop pod raid of mechanoids finishing me off.
From those sad events i understood one thing - as long as world map scales to your colony, not your caravan, i won't come anywhere near caravaning system again. Its nice to know how many people are guarding some site in advance, but if they will always scale with what you have on your map, not what you can send out - your wealth will always stack faster and higher than your combat ability based purely on your colonists, since you can't bring defenses with you. Unless it was balanced around caravaning system being only early to midgame option, i strongly suggest revising the way threat generation works for events on the world map.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 05:12:57 AM
I didn't use much armor in B18, because it took ages to craft and squirrels could still take your eyes out despite you using it. On that front current mechanic is much better. But it won't take much playing (or theorycrafting on that matter) to say that in this game a slow pawn is a dead pawn.
This has certainly improved in 1.0 from my experience, mainly since eyes no longer scar instantly. I've certainly felt the effect of this change in 1.0, where I'd have had many disfiguring and otherwise somewhat debilitating scars, but I didn't get a single eye scar in my run I just completed. A pawn with armour is barely slower than an unarmoured pawn though to be fair; this'd only really have a profound effect if they're super far away from your base as a raid approaches, or if you're kiting which is an AI cheese anyway.
Quote from: ReZpawner on July 07, 2018, 05:36:15 AM
Yeah, but what if you wear like 8 flak jackets? then it would be like a 50% reduction. We should totally crunch some more numbers on some "what if" scenarios here.
It's physically impossible to wear 8 flak jackets at one time, and that'd only be a ~20.8% reduction even if it were, unless you're somehow wearing something like 7 flak vests and 4 flak pants at the same time as well. Completely unrealistic.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 05:50:06 AM
...further -8% stacking with other penalties could mean a difference between dodging\escaping something or getting rekt, or that equipping every colonist with a bionic leg to compensate for wearing a flak set is a tad much...
One thing I really like about this change is that now one would mindlessly slap a full set of armour on a colonist at their own risk, rather than being a 'fire and forget' sort of deal. It's sort of a balancing act: "do I favour manoeuvrability in battle and only give them a flak vest, or go for the full cow and give them a flak vest, flak pants and a bearskin+ duster?". Also, the jogger trait fully offsets the speed penalty from having a full flak set.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 05:50:06 AM
...as long as world map scales to your colony, not your caravan, i won't come anywhere near caravaning system again...
Colony wealth scaling is fair, but I do agree that it should be discounted somewhat; even sending out just half of your colonists is a big risk to take. Especially with ambushes where you have very little time to position your colonists, unlike an outpost assault where you can coordinate a planned attack. Perhaps it could be like the old raid points system where item wealth is taken into account at an increased weight, if it isn't so already.
That being said though, I haven't really sent many caravans out since this particular change, so I'm just going off of my current experiences with the 'old' scaling, and effectively multiplying that by a factor based on what I've seen with newer world events on my map.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 05:28:01 AM
In this case, the human move rate is 4.61 c/s. Flak armor removes 0.12 each. That's a 2.6% slowdown. Wear all the flak armor and then your pawn moves 8% slower than usual. You can make that up with a bionic leg, etc.
Maybe it would be worth to put the buffs and debuffs in % instead of these almost abstract numbers of c/s, difficult to understand.
i think scaling base on caravans' strength/wealth not gonna work, since u may very well, send out 2 colonists with bare equipments for a load of nice reward
scaling on wealth isn't working nicely either, since wealth doesn't neccessarily scale with reseasonable ratio with defense/offense ability
let's have it scale on fighting capability of the colony instead, calculating base on the total number of armors & weapons & colonists available in the colony, weither they're equipped or not
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 07, 2018, 06:02:33 AM
This has certainly improved in 1.0 from my experience, mainly since eyes no longer scar instantly.
This is a really nice change. The fact that hares no longer can like bite your eyes out in one unlucky attack is huge. Thanks to Tynan for that!
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 07, 2018, 06:02:33 AM
Colony wealth scaling is fair, but I do agree that it should be discounted somewhat; even sending out just half of your colonists is a big risk to take. Especially with ambushes where you have very little time to position your colonists, unlike an outpost assault where you can coordinate a planned attack. Perhaps it could be like the old raid points system where item wealth is taken into account at an increased weight, if it isn't so already.
That being said though, I haven't really sent many caravans out since this particular change, so I'm just going off of my current experiences with the 'old' scaling, and effectively multiplying that by a factor based on what I've seen with newer world events on my map.
World map events scaling to your overall wealth is not fair in the slightest. Its not like you bring your whole colony with traps and turrets to a fight, right? So why in the heavens would the game count your overall wealth not the wealth of people and equipment you send out? That would be fair. I guess i can see the problem of that approach - you can try cheesing world events by sending a couple people in mediocre equipment late game to circumvent most threats. But current idea of using colony wealth as an element of threat scaling just makes lategame caravanning absolutely not worth the risk. You don't even risk just your caravan, you risk both a caravan and a colony wipe.
If you wanna keep caravanning viable even late game - it should be possible to send out small contingents of people on mining and trading missions, without the risk of just sudden death via 16 raiders. I understand outposts having such high enemy counts - it should be damn challenging to take out someone else's base. But other events could really use a chill pill.
I find it weird from a RP\in-game viewpoint that I can get the Peace Talks quest ~15 days in. Wouldn't the players colony be barely known at that point?
I'm gonna curve the caravan incident wealth scaling.
It is appropriate for it to have some effect - a caravan from a 20 day colony will be much less equipped than one from a 120 day colony - but it needs to curve and ceiling differently. I just haven't balanced it since Ison put it in is all.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 06:14:00 AM
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 07, 2018, 06:02:33 AM
This has certainly improved in 1.0 from my experience, mainly since eyes no longer scar instantly.
This is a really nice change. The fact that hares no longer can like bite your eyes out in one unlucky attack is huge. Thanks to Tynan for that!
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 07, 2018, 06:02:33 AM
Colony wealth scaling is fair, but I do agree that it should be discounted somewhat; even sending out just half of your colonists is a big risk to take. Especially with ambushes where you have very little time to position your colonists, unlike an outpost assault where you can coordinate a planned attack. Perhaps it could be like the old raid points system where item wealth is taken into account at an increased weight, if it isn't so already.
That being said though, I haven't really sent many caravans out since this particular change, so I'm just going off of my current experiences with the 'old' scaling, and effectively multiplying that by a factor based on what I've seen with newer world events on my map.
World map events scaling to your overall wealth is not fair in the slightest. Its not like you bring your whole colony with traps and turrets to a fight, right? So why in the heavens would the game count your overall wealth not the wealth of people and equipment you send out? That would be fair. I guess i can see the problem of that approach - you can try cheesing world events by sending a couple people in mediocre equipment late game to circumvent most threats. But current idea of using colony wealth as an element of threat scaling just makes lategame caravanning absolutely not worth the risk. You don't even risk just your caravan, you risk both a caravan and a colony wipe.
If you wanna keep caravanning viable even late game - it should be possible to send out small contingents of people on mining and trading missions, without the risk of just sudden death via 16 raiders. I understand outposts having such high enemy counts - it should be damn challenging to take out someone else's base. But other events could really use a chill pill.
if it only base on the caravan you send out, then you may send out only 2 colonists for a quest, eventhou your maximum capability is 10, so that's not gonna work so great
instead i suppose a model something like this should do
let's assume the number of colonists is x, the total wealth is y, the total of fighting equipments (armors, weapons, turrets, etc.) you've is z
the max capacity (rate) of offensive capacity that you can "generate" 'd be calculated base on x & y be z1, similarly, z2 be the max for defensive
it'd be your best interest to keep your REAL fighting ability (z) relatively close to z1 & z2 as the incident involved fighting 'd take into account z1 & z2
e.g:
raids 'd send out the offensive with z1' (raider's strength) = 50%-100% (or more - depend on game difficulty & weither or not u sent out caravan) of z2
meanwhile, ambushes = 40%-60% of z2, meaning it's your best interest to send out half your offensive ability
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
More apparel covers the neck.
When a predator is hunting a colonist we now send a letter.
Needs tab is now hidden for wild animals.
Predators can now hunt humanlikes at medium difficulty or above.
Adjust some biome animal densities.
Well done. I was going to post about wildlife density in tundra biome last night but something came up irl so I couldn't. Anyway, I'm glad this was adjusted. The wildlife in tundra felt a bit excessive. I could feed my colonists, animals, power 10 chemfuel generators and still have this much meat stockpiled: https://imgur.com/a/CLRxn29
I aggressively hunt wildlife on the map, excluding bunnies. Mainly to help train my shooters and whatever I can fit in the freezer goes in. However, it got to the point where I've had numerous animal corpses on the ground because my freezer was overflowing with bodies. Had so much meat didn't bother to grow potatoes for a long time and just fed everyone with simple meals since I needed to grow cotton for carpet.
I'm glad more apparel covers the neck. It's hard to equip everyone with power armor just for the neck cover in colder biomes because it doesn't give much insulation. The return of decrease movespeed when wearing armor doesn't bother me much as I tend to favor bionics over natural bodies. I'm glad parka doesn't decrease movespeed anymore like in b18. Hopefully that doesn't get reverted :)
Edit: Sorry, plate armor. Not power armor.
Also, not sure if this has been brought to attention yet but my last raid was day 157. I'm now on day 294 and still waiting. https://imgur.com/a/RMmu8RD
I did get a psychic ship 15th of Septober 5504 but that's about it. Someone else said they haven't been getting raids since they became allies/neutral with the other factions as well. I understand the other factions not raiding, but where are all the pirates? I don't even remember which faction raided me last, but I don't think it was pirates either.
Thanks. I'll wait for it and then experiment some more, to offer more feedback once th changes are in. I regretted a lot that caravanning wasn't really worth it in B18, risk\gain factor wise, so I am glad to see it get some love in 1.0 and i d really like it to be still viable even if you manage to hoard crapton of wealth. Those events just honestly need to depend not only on colony wealth but also on the type of world map site\event - as in outposts-bases - more harsh, since you have the tools and time to plan out an assault, while mining sites\refugees\road ambushes should scale with your party's wealth (makes sense that a rich caravan get a lots of attention, while refugees and mine sites aren't such juicy targets, until you mine it all out and try to haul back home).
Edit:
Your formula looks much better than what we have now. Though I won't claim i fully understand how it will actually work.
One small correction though - the game should only count fighting equipment that is on your colonists, to avoid spiking offensive force after a raid just brought you a big bunch of weapons. Well no, scratch that. You will be able to send naked people in, then change into armors to cheese it. Damn. Balancing is hard. :-\
Dunno how will you balance it in the end, but if you make it so that you can't cheese it, but will still be able to make use of caravanning early and late game with lots of wealth without being forced to send half or more of your people out, to just not die horribly on a first ambush it d be absolutely stellar.
I've noticed some of my colonists having persistent bad moods from minor pain (-5) caused by scars with just 1% pain. Feels like this should scale a bit more closely with the pain level.
Some posts were removed; this thread is for discussing play experiences, not open-ended suggestions, theorizing, or questions.
This thread is not for discussing the change list. Discussions of or questions about the change list will be deleted. This thread is for discussing play experiences and giving feedback based on play experiences. You're welcome to make another thread to talk about the changelist if that's what you want to do.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 05:50:06 AM
Instead i'll switch to another topic of world map events scaling to your colony wealth. I did some experimenting with my colony of 15 people (Randy, Hard, flat temperate forest) and mining sites from mineral scanner and was unpleasantly surprised, that with wealth level of 200-300k (i had around 290k-ish when scanner picked up my first silver lump) sending anything less than 3\4 of my colony is a suicide run. The site said it was unguarded, so naturally i thought about an ambush. I send 5 solid people in power armors with assault rifles (1 medic, 3 miners and one dedicated soldier with 14 shooting) and 5 muffaloes to see what can i get.
Instead of getting anything of value as soon as i approached the lump (which was pleasantly big), i got jumped by 16 (!) raiders.
What was the difficulty level?
Well, 5 people with power armors and 5 muffaloes have a decent chance to shred 16 raider (~8 actually, because it's enough to make them flee), though not with risk or casualties, so it's as it should be imo. But I'd say they all should be at least decent fighters, some melee fighters could be useful as well.
Quote
It was a hilarious mess of a slugfest in completely open space without any kind of cover aside from occasional trees, some of raiders even with ranged weapons for some weird reason kept coming in melee range preventing my people from shooting.
You could sacrifice muffalos to save the pawns, 5 muffalos would beat the raiders coming close pretty easily.
Quote
As a result i lost my hole caravan with their expensive equipment, marking the start of death spiral with constant mental breaks from having lost family members and friends, promtly ended by a drop pod raid of mechanoids finishing me off.
That a nice
tragic story too.
Quote
From those sad events i understood one thing - as long as world map scales to your colony, not your caravan, i won't come anywhere near caravaning system again. Its nice to know how many people are guarding some site in advance, but if they will always scale with what you have on your map, not what you can send out - your wealth will always stack faster and higher than your combat ability based purely on your colonists, since you can't bring defenses with you.
But you can. You can get some wood or steel with you to quickly build (implied you have decent builder in caravan group) some walls and/or sandbags. Stone chunks can be quickly moved around to make makeshift defense line in the few seconds you have while raiders come closer. You can take a butchery table (20 kg) for easily installable 3-tile 40% cover barricade, but I prefer shelfs for they have better tiles/weight ratio. Some alternative weapons to switch (like from snipers to LMGs), EMPs and grenades are also advisable.
Before approaching a reward or incapacitated pawn it's useful to prepare defenses, at least a small defensive line and a room to hide in for if you'll need a melee advantage.
Harsh, risky, but nothing impossible. Mid-End game colonies should be capable of sending help via drop pods, using battle drugs and get more better skilled and equipped in the top-notch gear pawns with caravans.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I just noticed that if you don't put on manual priorities, doctoring just does not get done. That is if it is just checked with a green check mark the colonists will ignore the job.
Regarding caravan site ambushes, it definitely really needs a lot of work even if the theory is sound. This is one specific area where I think players really need to document difficulty used, colonists at home and colonists on caravan. While higher levels (extra hard/ extreme) should be harder, caravans are an experience that is meant to be played on all settings. Sometimes there's a bit of asymmetry in the difficulties, like mortars are more useful on harder settings, and wake-up for profit is only useful on easier, but caravans should not be this way.
I visited a site with an ambush and that site had more raiders in the ambush than my entire colony at home had colonists (1 on caravan, 3 more at home, 5 on ambush?!, randy extreme) That's just never going to be doable! My guesstimate is that it feels like the site ambushes use a 40-70% multiplier on colony strength, whereas they probably need a 5-15% multiplier.
Personal opinion here: Caravans should really be less about about being hardcore and more about the experience. I wouldn't mind lower rewards if they were considerably more doable.
Looking at your example sirinox, looks like you sacrificed a bunch of muffalo, and risked losing every single one of your colonists ( if the muffalo died a bit too fast you would get ovverun), and lost 5 people's time in your colony potentially risking a raid with 5 less people, and could be further ambushed on the way home.
For a refugee that could potentially have a brain scar. Very very very worth it without permadeath. Completely and utterly worthless otherwise.
This is just totally whack. Then add on what could happen on a higher difficulty level, and it just becomes totally pointless.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 07, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
What was the difficulty level?
It was Randy, hard. Not extreme if you think thats the reason.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 07, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
Well, 5 people with power armors and 5 muffaloes have a decent chance to shred 16 raider (~8 actually, because it's enough to make them flee), though not with risk or casualties, so it's as it should be imo. But I'd say they all should be at least decent fighters, some melee fighters could be useful as well.
5 people? Shred 16? Under fire, without cover, with melees coming close quarters? Are we playing same game? And no, on "hard" it should be hard, but not impossible to avoid casualties with fine play. Right now it is not so. 5 people should not get attacked by 16.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 07, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
You could sacrifice muffalos to save the pawns, 5 muffalos would beat the raiders coming close pretty easily.
That would lead to me not getting anything of value from that event, since muffaloes would die, which ultimately leads to the same conclusion - not worth it.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 07, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
That a nice tragic story too.
Not everyone enjoys suffering and tragic stories. Some people actually have fun being successful.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 07, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
Before approaching a reward or incapacitated pawn it's useful to prepare defenses, at least a small defensive line and a room to hide in for if you'll need a melee advantage.
Ambushes shouldn't be treated same way as storming an outpost, with bringing mortars, making defensive bunkers and etc. Its an
ambush. Not a full scale assault. Same with trade caravans not having to double as a war party. You're not going for war, you are delivering some food for god's sake.
I tested predators' hunger. They take consuming survival meal package as the highest priority, over hunting for an animal. When they're hunting for a colonist, the letter sound and background music change as if there was a raid. Also, the letter appears with a little of delay. If the predator is close to one of your colonist, the colonist might be attacked before the letter appears. If the colonist hides in a building, the predator will change a target. If the predator decides to attack another colonist, another letter will appear. It means we might be getting spammed with letters. Also, when a predator attacks a colonist for the second time, a letter appears much later after initiating a hunt, comparing to a hunt for the first time. When a predator hunts for a tamed animal, we're not alerted until it's attacked.
I think there should be no battle music when a single predator is hunting for a colonist (the music is supposed to be played during faction assaults or manhunter packs - a group attacking) and the letter should give the same sound as for mad animals. However, I'd be even more grateful if the player wasn't alerted with a letter, but with a notification (at the top of the screen). Letters are supposed to inform us about random events initiated by a storyteller. Predator hunting is not a random event. The same would go for some of the player decisions, such as starting a caravan or revealing an area - those should be informed with notifications above.
Also, about caravans, I kinda like when factions are fighting each other without me participating in. However, I concur what Tynan did with them. You can also debuff the abuse that you can call for military aid when a faction hostile to them but not to you has visitors/traders/travellers in your area, i.e. by giving a badwill (don't forget to warn a player before asking for military aid if you're implementing exactly this).
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AMI'm sick, so slowing down slightly in recent days.
looks like it leaked into flak armour research description too, it says "This weighty armor so slows movement somewhat", pretty sure a word needs to go or be added :P https://i.imgur.com/E1d2eeC.png
Get well soon
I like Android and Luciferum. It makes people move crazy fast.
In the real army, there is a team that "waits five minutes". If an emergency occurs, this team will respond first. In five minutes. At rimworld I make this "Five minute wait" pawn with bionic leg and luciferum.
Pitching in with a small observation I haven't seen around here just yet.
My pawns won't prefer power armor to devilstrand duster + flak jacket/pants. I understand the armor might be similar over chest but coverage is far different. They also prefer advanced plasteel helmets to power armor helmets. I get if the power armor helmet is low hp it makes sense to prefer, but even fresh good power armor gets ignored.
In my previous power armor ready game, I didn't have devilstrand, and when I would set a persons outfit to allow power armor they would go swap it out first thing even with flak.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 07:58:30 AM
Some posts were removed; this thread is for discussing play experiences, not open-ended suggestions, theorizing, or questions.
This thread is not for discussing the change list. Discussions of or questions about the change list will be deleted. This thread is for discussing play experiences and giving feedback based on play experiences. You're welcome to make another thread to talk about the changelist if that's what you want to do.
i actually didnt know this, i too am guilty of just suggesting things. my bad.
most of my play experience is tainted with mods, so its not entirely genuine, perhaps i should give it a go and report. but even without playing the base, and just with mods, i do feel strange about the wetness thing as i had posted in the past.... that being said i wont just post suggestions again without some gameplay to back it up
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 02:50:49 AM
New build!
I'm sick, so slowing down slightly in recent days.
Solid list of changes, really liking to see you taking people reports into consideration.
On that note, make sure you take a break as well, as I know hectic it can get, don't forget to get proper resting and nutrition.
Quote from: Greep on July 07, 2018, 10:28:36 AM
I visited a site with an ambush and that site had more raiders in the ambush than my entire colony at home had colonists (1 on caravan, 3 more at home, 5 on ambush?!, randy extreme) That's just never going to be doable! My guesstimate is that it feels like the site ambushes use a 50-70% multiplier on colony strength, whereas they probably need a 10-15% multiplier.
Well, it still suits the new description of "Extreme" in the menu tooltip. No clean game, brutal unfair situations.
Though 1 colonist caravan has stealth bonus to offset how risky it is to travel alone.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 10:32:20 AM
5 people? Shred 16? Under fire, without cover, with melees coming close quarters? Are we playing same game? And no, on "hard" it should be hard, but not impossible to avoid casualties with fine play. Right now it is not so. 5 people should not get attacked by 16.
5 people with
power armor. Ambushing pirates rarely have it. It makes huge difference.
And trained animals. And, probably, battle drugs/drop pod assist. It's not impossible, it just not reliable, and occasional casualties should be expected.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 10:32:20 AM
That would lead to me not getting anything of value from that event, since muffaloes would die, which ultimately leads to the same conclusion - not worth it.
That is a price to win a battle, to save pawns lives. Ambushes supposed to be dangerous, right?
And no, it wouldn't, some muffalos would probably just be incapacitated and could be healed back to carry enough things. That's what I got in my play. One muffalo was killed, the other was healed back and we went home.
I'm just wondering, had you drop pods at the stage of game?
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 10:32:20 AM
Not everyone enjoys suffering and tragic stories. Some people actually have fun being successful.
It's ok. That's why there are different difficulty levels and storytellers.
But some tragic stories are really good too.
Quote
Ambushes shouldn't be treated same way as storming an outpost, with bringing mortars, making defensive bunkers and etc. Its an ambush. Bot a full scale assault.
Why not? I'm not talking about mortars, they are useless on such small maps, but making a camp with some defenses when you out there in dangerous surroundings makes sense. That is something common in military deployment events.
Ambushes are also risky and sometimes deadly.
Or you can flee from it if it's an ambush guarding a treasure or a refugee.
Or you can prepare for it. It all makes for different gameplay possibilities.
I'm not saying that such events couldn't use some tweaking. I'm just saying that it's not
that bad, not to the point of "completely broken".
1) Power armor doesn't offer perfect protection. Bruises will take you down as efficiently as bleeding gunshots. It helps, but not against 1 to 3 odds in small map without cover. In fact if random screws you over - you can just get oneshot through it, as if you were naked.
2) If a price to win a battle is more than the gain you were after first place, why even use caravans then? I can just stay home and deep mine and trade. Caravanning should be a viable alternative to those things, not a super epic tough quest to stay alive and get back, crippled but alive and smiling. Its not a warzone. Ambushes are supposed to be dangerous. Not crazy.
3) Why not? Because you aren't attacking a fort or a citadel of dark forces. You go out to mine resources, why would a whole army of raiders lie in wait guarding an ore lump? Or one crippled abrasive grandma with a broken spine? Its neither a legendary power armor, nor a pack of miraculous ressurector serums you get from heavily guarded outposts. Not very logical.
And about being broken lets envision the situation. Instead of 300k wealth you have 600k. Such amounts are really aren't that hard to reach naturally. You have 15-18 colonists (thats the usual normal amount, except for longer Randy plays which can reach 40-50). That means you will have an ambush of... 32 raiders. On that small map mostly without cover. If you still feel thats fair and doable without cheescaking it with doomsday launchers, i think we should stop here.
I tried a few games of Naked Brutality Extreme Randy Random just to test out the infection disease chance changes for small wounds. After fighting minor mobs in rats and squirrels with a club in melee, I got an infection 3 out of 4 fights from minor wounds no more than 5 damage.
Ehh. Just doesn't seem like a fun game mechanic to me right now. I mean I can play around it so I can 'win', but an infection from a minor wound proving to be lethal to a 20 year old just seems strange to me.
Also, feel better soon!
Quote from: Tynan on July 06, 2018, 01:32:46 AM
Some changes are indeed experimental.
I'll probably bring back predator attacks at higher difficulties only.
Kreygasm
I'm not sure why, but suddenly EVERY animal on the map flooded into my farmland. Theres a little grass on the map but not much.
Also I have a wild megasloth downed from extremeblood loss with no wounds? Literally the only thing on his health tab is the blood loss...
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 11:35:25 AM
1) Power armor doesn't offer perfect protection. Bruises will take you down as efficiently as bleeding gunshots. It helps, but not against 1 to 3 odds in small map without cover.
Yup, it doesn't offer perfect protection, it offers
better protection. So while they down your pawn you have good chance to down
more of them in most cases, and make them flee.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 11:35:25 AM
In fact if random screws you over - you can just get oneshot through it, as if you were naked.
It works for both sides, and it's something expected from a gunfight. It's not about not having casualties at all, it's being more successful in general.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 11:35:25 AM
2) If a price to win a battle is more than the gain you were after first place, why even use caravans then?
It depends on how well they fight and from Randy's mood in your case. He is not very reliable guy.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 11:35:25 AM
3) Why not? Because you aren't attacking a fort or a citadel of dark forces.
It's still a dangerous lawless planet with quite enough dangers, pirates and other menaces. There are already enough reasons to be cautious. Carelessness will find no clemency in this place.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 11:35:25 AM
You go out to mine resources, why would a whole army of raiders lie in wait guarding an ore lump? Or one crippled abrasive grandma with a broken spine?
That's easy. It's because they know that rich guys from nearby colony tend to go for such things, and they want to catch them. :)
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 11:35:25 AM
And about being broken lets envision the situation. Instead of 300k wealth you have 600k. Such amounts are really aren't that hard to reach naturally. You have 15-18 colonists (thats the usual normal amount, except for longer Randy plays which can reach 40-50). That means you will have an ambush of... 32 raiders. On that small map mostly without cover. If you still feel thats fair and doable without cheescaking it with doomsday launchers, i think we should stop here.
That's a wild speculation, let's not envision something like this, I highly doubt there is such plain distribution. Speaking from experience, in 1.0.1956 for a colony of 25 people, ~350k wealth, Cass Extreme I got for ambushes:
- 3 manhunting megasloth
- 14 mediocre equipped raiders (no or almost no power armors, weapons from pistols to snipers)
- 14 scythers
- another ~15 raiders ambush
- something about 18 raccoon
vs 5-7 pawns mostly in power armor, some of them were melee with shield belts, and 3-5 muffalo. It didn't feel like crazy even though I expected it could be.
Every map I've encountered yet had plenty of stone chunks which give decent cover, and quite often some hills and/or structures as well.
Thanks for reminding about rocket launchers. This things are sure useful last option, I totally forgot to take this with my caravans.
Can I ask you, Tynan, to make some system to reduce the cover of armor in certain species for the respective body parts? For example, tortoises have their armor like their shell covers their entire body. Makes no sense; if I shoot the paws, the paws are not covered by the shell, so it should have no armor. Revolvers having their shots deflected from a tortoise's shell, fine, I can understand a little that, but even when I shoot their paws or head?
You've played way too much Darkest Dungeon, man :D I like it as well, but i really don't wanna see Rimworld turning into grim Dark Souls level suffering simulator.
Also we probably should end this, before Tynan gets rightfully pissed. If you wanna continue - lets make a separate thread, maybe with a poll and also ask others how they feel about it.
Nah, not nearly enough. ;) It sure added to the acceptance of sudden pawns deaths as a part of the story for me though.
Ow. I hope it wasn't too much off topic, I sure meant it as an alternative experience about these caravan tweaks. I don't have much to add to what I already said, but I could participate in such thread if there will be one.
Unrelated, but smelter doesn't get bonuses from workbenches. Is this intended? I always knew this was the case but don't know if it's intended.
I like the new flak armor visual. When Tynan mentions NECK PROTECTION he means it.
Minor observations living in a swamp for reals this time:
The issue with swamps is no doubt the intense foliage and lack of good ground. This is reasonable and part of the challenge. In most maps I usually use 30% of the map. Here, it's more like 15%. I like that, which brings me to the main method of expansion: moisture pumps.
Moisture pumps take a year plus to expand it's radius and turn marsh/mud/water into normal soil. I don't personally care whether this is realistic or not. What I do care is it takes forever, and it's very much a non-fun method of expansion.
Another thing in regards to pumps is that they require power. Fair enough, but the problem is that you can't ever maximise them because you need to run a wire and that also takes a while depending if you resarch waterproof conduits or not.
You also need to use them on good soil instead of plopping it down in a shallow lake. Doable with bridges but I'm no fan of it. I shouldn't need a tiny one tile bridge to plant it in the first place. Might as well chuck it on the mud in the first place.
So those are the main complaints: the inability to place them directly on marshy soil and needing to play a game of guess the radius plus the extremely long waiting time to clear the area. I wouldn't mind a bigger moisture pump if it means I can pump out the marsh a lot quicker at the cost of more materials and power.
I can't find my Vent thing anymore, it's not in the Temperature tab. Does it need to be researched? Tribal start.
With how wearing armor is now a trade-off, I don't see a reason to wear it anymore. If you need armor, you are already doing something wrong, since it only gives some extra chances in RNGfest, and slowing down pawns is one of the wrongest things you can ever do. 8% slowdown is a disastrous disadvantage. I've seen too many cases when one-two tiles of the extra range were changing the whole outcome. In fact, now bionic legs are effectively a prerequisite for wearing armor.
Threat response for hunting predators still is way too poor. The letter only arrives when the predator is within range of 30 or so, which is too close to escape when happens near map edges even in perfect positioning. Pawns and turrets don't try to attack predators unless they are within range of 10 or so.
Predators are tending to turn manhunter when harmed while hunting, which means that they forget about hunger and just go around attacking humanlikes.
No one cares when predator attacks animals.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 07, 2018, 02:01:13 PM
So those are the main complaints: the inability to place them directly on marshy soil and needing to play a game of guess the radius plus the extremely long waiting time to clear the area. I wouldn't mind a bigger moisture pump if it means I can pump out the marsh a lot quicker at the cost of more materials and power.
And if they are destroyed - well, shit.
Okay I have experience on two things. The weaker doors and the early game power setup.
On Cass Hard Jungle, without a river, it feels absolutely terrible getting power early on because I can't rely on that perfectly reliable river power anymore. My options are to rush batteries, but I definitely have more important things that need to be setup early before that, wind power or fueled generators. The problem with wind power is that despite powering 2 lights and a cooler, I can go long periods of time without power and if I have a fueled generator I have to constantly shove wood into it which is a crucial material early on. It's just noticeably more difficult playing now if I don't have a river, my B18 strategy was building a solar generator and battery on day 1 which IMO was overpowered, but the alternatives is to put a torch inside my house for basic light, but those raise temperatures and anger everyone.
I don't know a solution to this, because I don't think having batteries or solar panels at the start would fix it, just make it as easy as B18 is. Maybe add some basic reliability to wind power? The output varies, but I don't think a wind mill ever truly stops completely. And I don't really understand not having batteries at the start, I'm not that hugely bothered by it now that I saw you made the research path to a better research bench less dumb.
And onto the wooden doors, which flat out killed my colony before the first month. Someone went hunting, maddened a group of elephants, elephants wiped her clean and then tore ass after my other 2 folks, shredding the doors like paper and chasing them through 4 different doors in the base not stopping. I tried taking 1 on at a time in the doorway but of course this happened after they got injured the day prior and 1 died and the other downed. Everyone died. This entire series of events just kinda felt unfair to me, because I wasn't even able to just accept heavy losses, I HAD to accept everyone dies from this, I couldn't run anywhere and they all got downed so I couldn't even wait out the elephants maddening status.
I like making that door cheese tactic not work as well, I am guilty of it on a few occasions when the odds are horribly one sided, but currently the better material the door is, the slower they open which seems like an unneeded trade off and makes it hard to stop using wooden doors since those precious seconds add up. IMO all doors should open at the same speed, this makes logically and from a balance standpoint they cost more materials and take longer to build.
Of course that leads to a problem of people never building a wooden door..
Idk, I wanted to give some experience feedback, this is all from the last 2 hours of playing on the newest version.
with bridge being a thing, i just out right use bridge instead of pump unless what i need is room with some flooring or heavy stuff or growing ground
and does waterproof conduit actually needed? i remember i just used bridge+normal conduit instead, cheaper in all way
edit: yes, checked, an across-water conduit can either costs 8 steels+research, or it can just be 12 wood+1 steel, wood is basically free, so the waterproof conduit only pays off if u 're hit >8 times with lightning, fire, or zzzt at the same spot
i think the waterproof conduit should costs 2 or 3 steel or even 1, as it already required research
Been really loving the game so far, but there is a single brick wall I've run into - how crazy deadly the new melee Scythers are around the mid-game. They absolutely shred my colonists, especially now since pawns with guns can't shoot back if the enemy is in "touch" range (I don't get why that nerf was added). Plus Scythers have about 76% armor against guns, which is almost as much as Centipede armor vs guns, and they down or kill colonists in about 3 hits or less.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 07, 2018, 02:51:16 PM
with bridge being a think, i just out right use bridge instead of pump unless what i need is room with some flooring or heavy stuff or growing ground
Well, most water dries to gravel and that can't support heavy structures. So the pump is really useless. Only marsh dries to dirt.
Regarding power, the way you want to do it is mix all of the power generator types, use batteries, and flick on your wood generators when your battery is low. Chemfuel generators are just a straight upgrade to wood later on, though, due to the drilling and refineries. Turbines eventually just take up too much space and should be completely replaced with solar, but they're pretty good early on if you have enough batteries.
Usually I go 1 full time wood generator, then add a geothermal, then start using batteries with unreliable energy and wood generators as backup.
As for scythers, yeah they're pretty hardcore. I've mostly been nuking ships with mortars, which usually kill everything that isn't a centipede, though ::)
Quote from: NoQ on July 07, 2018, 02:04:38 PM
I can't find my Vent thing anymore, it's not in the Temperature tab. Does it need to be researched? Tribal start.
complex furniture. I use doors held open until I get it. Slight risk of disturbed sleep but not bad if you put the bed away from the door.
Quote from: rdshea3 on July 07, 2018, 10:48:36 AM
My pawns won't prefer power armor to devilstrand duster + flak jacket/pants. I understand the armor might be similar over chest but coverage is far different. They also prefer advanced plasteel helmets to power armor helmets. I get if the power armor helmet is low hp it makes sense to prefer, but even fresh good power armor gets ignored.
In my previous power armor ready game, I didn't have devilstrand, and when I would set a persons outfit to allow power armor they would go swap it out first thing even with flak.
IME pawns prefer apparel value over anything else, hence they're dropping high-HP/quality better protection to wear high wealth stuff. This has been the way for quite a few versions now..
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 07, 2018, 03:15:52 PM
Well, most water dries to gravel and that can't support heavy structures. So the pump is really useless. Only marsh dries to dirt.
You can build flooring on gravel, which allows it to support pretty much anything; at least that's been my experience. I can build stone walls and wind turbines that way, at least.
Quote from: IndustryStandard on July 07, 2018, 02:42:36 PM
Okay I have experience on two things. The weaker doors and the early game power setup.
On Cass Hard Jungle, without a river, it feels absolutely terrible getting power early on because I can't rely on that perfectly reliable river power anymore. My options are to rush batteries, but I definitely have more important things that need to be setup early before that, wind power or fueled generators. The problem with wind power is that despite powering 2 lights and a cooler, I can go long periods of time without power and if I have a fueled generator I have to constantly shove wood into it which is a crucial material early on. It's just noticeably more difficult playing now if I don't have a river, my B18 strategy was building a solar generator and battery on day 1 which IMO was overpowered, but the alternatives is to put a torch inside my house for basic light, but those raise temperatures and anger everyone.
I don't know a solution to this, because I don't think having batteries or solar panels at the start would fix it, just make it as easy as B18 is. Maybe add some basic reliability to wind power? The output varies, but I don't think a wind mill ever truly stops completely. And I don't really understand not having batteries at the start, I'm not that hugely bothered by it now that I saw you made the research path to a better research bench less dumb.
And onto the wooden doors, which flat out killed my colony before the first month. Someone went hunting, maddened a group of elephants, elephants wiped her clean and then tore ass after my other 2 folks, shredding the doors like paper and chasing them through 4 different doors in the base not stopping. I tried taking 1 on at a time in the doorway but of course this happened after they got injured the day prior and 1 died and the other downed. Everyone died. This entire series of events just kinda felt unfair to me, because I wasn't even able to just accept heavy losses, I HAD to accept everyone dies from this, I couldn't run anywhere and they all got downed so I couldn't even wait out the elephants maddening status.
I like making that door cheese tactic not work as well, I am guilty of it on a few occasions when the odds are horribly one sided, but currently the better material the door is, the slower they open which seems like an unneeded trade off and makes it hard to stop using wooden doors since those precious seconds add up. IMO all doors should open at the same speed, this makes logically and from a balance standpoint they cost more materials and take longer to build.
Of course that leads to a problem of people never building a wooden door..
Idk, I wanted to give some experience feedback, this is all from the last 2 hours of playing on the newest version.
I really don't understand any of this complaint. All that you describe is the half the fun of playing the game. Go play on a river map if you want river power... I mean "balancing" the game to take out differences in difficulties due to terrain and other start situations seems like trying to tilt windmills ala Cervantes. Poor Tynan, I hope he sees this and just ignores most of this.
Overcoming "problems" is what this game is about, and none of what you describe is anything to do with tedium or busy work.
And yes windmills DO stop (we have farms of them out here).
So I sort of found a bug.
I send single colonist for a quest which reward was - 1 chemfuel generator and 1 orbital bombardment targeter. I was in tropical forest and settlement was nearby so I was like okay I'll send there a guy. It took him few days, i didnt need to give him any food. When he arrived I accepted reward and thats were the problem begins. The total amount of gear and chemfuel generator exceeded the amout of total weight that he can carry. I can't drop his gear and I can't give back chemfuel generator since there is no option to do that. So this pawn is stack there forerver since he can't move(caravan can't move since carrying too much) and he can't lower his weight(he can't give back chemfuel generator or can't drop his gear)
Quote from: Gohihioh on July 07, 2018, 04:05:29 PM
So this pawn is stack there forerver since he can't move(caravan can't move since carrying too much) and he can't lower his weight(he can't give back chemfuel generator or can't drop his gear)
So send another 'van with a suitable pack animal & merge them?
Aren't seiges supposed to assault you when you break their mortars? Or has that behavior been changed?
Noticed a inconsistency, you require construction skill to build a Tube TV but not for a Flatscreen TV. Also one time when tribals raided me with sappers they did not seem to retaliate to being attacked when they were traveling to the sapping spot.
So, I'm three games into 1.0 now; and three losses before anything approaching late game.
The first involved insanely frequent raids (Cass:Hard) - like, a raid a day frequent. Never time to heal between them, and from so early in the game I barely had any kind of defenses at all. This appears to have been fixed, as it didn't happen again.
Second game got going well, up to 8 people and decided to do some caravan quests. Sent three people to pick up an injured refugee, but the caravanners where stricken by the flu mid trip. Ended up with my forager incapacitated and carried, both slowing the caravan extremely *and* reducing/eliminating foraging, which caused me to run out of food a day before arriving at the refugee. Set up a camp there to try and build a food stock for the trip back, however, the refugee turned out to be a Wimp who was going to stay in bed till he was fully healed... and that was a LONG time.
While on that map, a Megasloth went manhunter, attacked and badly hurt the remaining two pawns. Things infections struck, and my three pawns where well on to dying long before the new pawn would be on his feet.... so, they're done.
Back at the main colony, the 5 remaining colonists met a raid which saw my remaining doctor killed and two more severely injured, surely to die of infection without adequate medical care and only a couple herbal medicine. Not a true loss, to be fair, but I wasn't up to clawing my way back with 2 depressed colonists alone in a larger colony base.
This is what makes me very reluctant to use caravans until the late game. If I don't have automated defenses set up (killboxes, turrets) I feel I can't defend safely enough to risk dividing my numbers, and as I don't play with Randy it takes a LONG time to get sufficient numbers to safely caravan.
This is a significant point that concerns me: The game works best with fewer colonists, as it's easier to be involved in their stories when there's not dozens of them. This is why Cass and Phoebe have soft pop caps. Caravanning is incredibly risky, particularly before you've got high end weapons and armor. I found, in B18, I'd often have huge piles of "quest" icons on the map, and I'd basically never touch them unless I was much more into late game. That's not any different now.
Is this the design intent? If so, that's fair enough. But the game makes it seem that they're intended for use from early on. Maybe I'm just bad at managing caravans (this is entirely possible!), but the majority of my colony ending events overall from the very inception of caravans into 1.0 come as a direct result of sending a caravan in the first place.
So, keeping in mind that the game is primarily balanced around Cass/Phoebe (and thus having more than 12 pawns is the exception rather than the norm) I feel there either needs to be better scaling when you've sent pawns out, or maybe some sort of better player training (through the tutorial interface?) with tips on how to do this without dooming your colony.
*shrugs* or maybe I'm just terrible. I dunno. But the only posts I've seen end up talking about very late game strategies (lots of pawns, you've got power armor, or large numbers of turrets/mortars and an elaborate killbox, etc) vs trying to manage caravans with 8 pawns in a mid-game setting.
This is excluding trading runs to a *very* nearby town (~5 cells away or so) that you can reliably reach in a day, which are quite safe and profitable.
Sorry for how rambly this was. Just a bit frustrated at the highly random (apparently) nature of caravan quests in terms of risk:reward.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 07, 2018, 03:29:16 PM
Quote from: NoQ on July 07, 2018, 02:04:38 PM
I can't find my Vent thing anymore, it's not in the Temperature tab. Does it need to be researched? Tribal start.
complex furniture. I use doors held open until I get it. Slight risk of disturbed sleep but not bad if you put the bed away from the door.
Thx!
Oh, third game: Naked Brutality start on Cass:Medium.
I love this start. I really do. It's hard and unfair, but the very early game is extremely entertaining for me. Got myself up to three pawns and a really nice looking prisoner to hopefully be #4, living in caves and with 2 of those pawns being indoorsmen, this is great!
Sadly, Pawn The Third had a go-juice addiction I didn't notice when she joined, and was a wimp. As soon as withdrawal started she was bedridden, and go-juice withdrawal has a +50% hunger penalty. This made feeding the prisoner and her with my two capable pawns in a VERY early, basic colony where making a toque is a luxury extremely difficult. I *should* have released the prisoner, but was greedy for manpower.
Things got quite tight, then during a relatively simple raid (three raiders; two with pistols and one with a knife) my doctor was killed by the first shot against me, then my last pawn - my original one - managed to kill one of the raiders before the other brought took her down and captured her.
This was followed by my addict pawn starving to death in bed, and the prisoner breaking out and leaving. Good game all around!
Thoughts on Naked Brutality as a game start: I really enjoy how this forces you to think VERY hard on how you spend your pawn's time. Pawnhours are, for 99% of the game, your most valuable resource in any setting, but in Naked Brutality you need to really prioritize what you're doing in order to get basic survival down. I do feel that you want to have at least Medicine 4 (so you can hopefully avoid dying to an infected squirrel scratch, as you're gonna end up having to bludgeon some animals to death) and Crafting 2 (so you can make a shortbow). Now, I just had crafting 1, but was able to grab a pilum from my first raider to replace my club, and while I've always looked down on them before, man, those pilums are like sniper rifles when you've been struggling with a wooden club.
There's a healthy dose of RNG for NB starts, too, and that's inescapable. But it makes the games where you do survive long enough to get things going way more rewarding. In particular, this is a great way to "ease into" more difficult games as a very casual player. A NB start on lower difficulty is still quite hard, but doesn't remain relentlessly difficult so a more casual player can have *some* very real difficulty, but not what feels like endless abuse.
Quote from: dearmad on July 07, 2018, 03:55:23 PM
Quote from: IndustryStandard on July 07, 2018, 02:42:36 PM
Okay I have experience on two things. The weaker doors and the early game power setup.
On Cass Hard Jungle, without a river, it feels absolutely terrible getting power early on because I can't rely on that perfectly reliable river power anymore. My options are to rush batteries, but I definitely have more important things that need to be setup early before that, wind power or fueled generators. The problem with wind power is that despite powering 2 lights and a cooler, I can go long periods of time without power and if I have a fueled generator I have to constantly shove wood into it which is a crucial material early on. It's just noticeably more difficult playing now if I don't have a river, my B18 strategy was building a solar generator and battery on day 1 which IMO was overpowered, but the alternatives is to put a torch inside my house for basic light, but those raise temperatures and anger everyone.
I don't know a solution to this, because I don't think having batteries or solar panels at the start would fix it, just make it as easy as B18 is. Maybe add some basic reliability to wind power? The output varies, but I don't think a wind mill ever truly stops completely. And I don't really understand not having batteries at the start, I'm not that hugely bothered by it now that I saw you made the research path to a better research bench less dumb.
And onto the wooden doors, which flat out killed my colony before the first month. Someone went hunting, maddened a group of elephants, elephants wiped her clean and then tore ass after my other 2 folks, shredding the doors like paper and chasing them through 4 different doors in the base not stopping. I tried taking 1 on at a time in the doorway but of course this happened after they got injured the day prior and 1 died and the other downed. Everyone died. This entire series of events just kinda felt unfair to me, because I wasn't even able to just accept heavy losses, I HAD to accept everyone dies from this, I couldn't run anywhere and they all got downed so I couldn't even wait out the elephants maddening status.
I like making that door cheese tactic not work as well, I am guilty of it on a few occasions when the odds are horribly one sided, but currently the better material the door is, the slower they open which seems like an unneeded trade off and makes it hard to stop using wooden doors since those precious seconds add up. IMO all doors should open at the same speed, this makes logically and from a balance standpoint they cost more materials and take longer to build.
Of course that leads to a problem of people never building a wooden door..
Idk, I wanted to give some experience feedback, this is all from the last 2 hours of playing on the newest version.
I really don't understand any of this complaint. All that you describe is the half the fun of playing the game. Go play on a river map if you want river power... I mean "balancing" the game to take out differences in difficulties due to terrain and other start situations seems like trying to tilt windmills ala Cervantes. Poor Tynan, I hope he sees this and just ignores most of this.
Overcoming "problems" is what this game is about, and none of what you describe is anything to do with tedium or busy work.
And yes windmills DO stop (we have farms of them out here).
Tone down the rudeness please.
My comment is not a complaint, it's just feedback from an experience I had in relation to two things I thought were worth bringing up. My issues regarding power is that if you are on a map with a river, power is a non issue since river power has basically no downside and doesn't suffer from lack of batteries like solar and wind power do. Don't interpret this as saying different environments shouldn't have different obstacles to overcome just the current way it's setup specifically for power seems off to me. I think water and wind power plants should be researched for alongside solar, and that chem/fuel generators should be the starting form of power generation across all games, but we also shouldn't have to research batteries. There are many other ways to create problems, except water power has no real downsides so I constantly feel the urge to play only maps with rivers. To me, this isn't good.
And for the elephants going mad and killing everyone despite running through 4 doors, that isn't a problem to overcome, that was the game turning on a kill switch from 1 small thing and deciding I was going to lose my colonists. It had very little interaction.
My first time posting!
I have 200+ hours into the game. I managed to launch the ship once prior to 1.0. Once I heard that we could test 1.0 I quickly abandoned all hope and lost myself in Rimworld again.
My first couple of colonies did not make it past year 2. I had raids every 3 - 4 days, people were unhappy and went berserk, I couldn't capture a raider, animals kept joining so I ran out of food, or people would contract diseases and die.
My current colony is: Crashlanded, Phoebe, Hard, Temperate Forest, Small Hills, Large River.
Some general feedback in no particular order:
1. I like more colonies to interact with (good and bad). I like the faction system and the trading influence system. It forces us to use caravans more to keep up the faction rating.
2. The Windmill is very powerful early game. Almost so that it's kinda pointless to build on anything else, unless you're one of those sadist I keep reading about in this thread. :-)
3. Early game feels way more important now. Micro decisions matter. Picking your pawns at the start matters more now. I have to juggle the skills and jobs more now than I had to do before.
4. Packs of animals join more frequently now in 1.0 than they did in versions A16, 17 and 18. I had one colony that had to slaughter the chickens that joined because those cluckers were eating me out of house and home. I stopped playing one colony because labs joined halfway through year 1 and I thought I would be good on food. Turns out I wasn't. I ran out of food before spring was near - I couldn't bring myself to eat the dogs, so I just erased that colony. My current colony, I had three wild animals join before the end of the first winter.
5. More often than not, animals tend to join with a male and a female. I hope this was an intended change. If so, yay.
6. The new dialogue options are amazing. I had one couple get together over their mutual arousal of vomit. They are due to marry soon.
7. Getting passive coolers at the start of the game (instead of having to research them) is a good change in technology. I dislike not getting any resources back after deconstructing them.
8. I feel like the "merging" resources that haulers can do is not being praised enough. With that being said, I also feel like the AI can be a bit better when making stacks. If I had a stack of 60 steel, why make a new stack of 35? Why not deposit the 15, and make a new stack of 25? I say this not knowing how difficult it would be to program something like that.
9. I am sure this has been said about 1 million times (and I know there is a mod for it), but the 75 resource stack limit is very limiting. I tend to horde resources, and I KNOW we're not supposed to in this game and the 75 is there to make sure we don't. I just wish that the stack limit was an even 100.
10. With factions/friends/ally's being so important now, I'm still not understanding the reason for the visitors that pass by. I know there are mods out there to do something with them. But for the base game, I mean, what am I supposed to do with them? Are they still kinda unfinished? When someone with the name of "scout" walks by, all of my SC: BW and Sc2 hairs stand on end and I'm like, OH NO YOU DON'T.
11. Peace talk quests happen very early, which is nice since it opens more trading and gives less emphasis on raids. However, since I'm capturing people less, it's always stressful (for me) to send someone away.
12. Wildlife tab? Love this. LOVE this. can I say that more? LOVE THIS TAB.
13. Sapper AI was a bit wonky during one of my fights. Three raiders went from their drop in point (which was right next to my base), walked ALL THE WAY UP to literally mine a path through some hills to then try and attack from the other side. Now, I actually didnt mind this seeing as I had time to recover from the initial onslaught, but I feel like that *should* be a bug worth reporting?
14. Escape pods are a LOVELY way to gain reputation and happen at least twice a year for me. However, the majority of mine (this play through) the people have all been from other colonies so I had to let them go to keep up the good will.
15. I REALLY like the changes to the quests/caravans. They are worth doing now. I've been out on no less than 5.
Tynan, I apologize if this isn't the kind of post or indepth feedback that you're looking for. I am very much afraid at this point, I need to restart my year 5 colony. I have no defense, only 8 people (no one wants to join me - sad face) and my food stocks were just wiped out from a siege because they targeted my fridge. Like, seriously. I had a years worth of food in there. Poof. Gone. I don't have walls up yet, because i couldnt get the food and what not under control. I think I just made too many mistakes early game and now my late game is suffering from it.
I feel like I am playing the game wrong. Everyone is seriously good at making defenses early and managing raids well, and I struggle against animals sometimes. A pack of 5 panthers tore the faces off one of the 1.0 colonies. Rest in peace you fine friends.
Finally, on the changes to power generation:
When I read through the changelogs, and looked at the research tree etc, I was deeply concerned about how you can't get batteries up, windmills eat SO MUCH space, and watermills are Perfect Power Generation.
Practice, however, has shown that this is (in my never-humble opinion, anyways) a very good change.
First, watermills: I was dubious. In previous versions, you needed batteries to "smooth" irregular power generation. This just made that sort of power grid What You Do. Watermills remove that, so you can get a basic power generation set up that's consistent and predictable without batteries. It has inherent disadvantages, however: Watermills are large, difficult to spam, and difficult to protect. They're great for keeping the lights on, but don't generate enough power on their own to run a heavy defense network and such. Moving up to batteries and intermittent supply help diversify your power grid, which is a good thing but thankfully can be put off (so you don't need to race to batteries). Finally, I really like how this makes maps with rivers ideal colony locations. That *SHOULD* be the case: societies have always sprung up primarily around rivers, after all. I also like how relying on this requires greatly limiting *where* on a map you build, so it's a lot harder to build a hard-defensive turtling colony in a mountain map and have easy power.
Second, generators: This change has made wood fired generators actually worth using. Before, with easy access to solar panels and batteries, using wood fired generators was basically stupid other than as coverage during eclipses - which was also not terrible important as you could spam windmills too. With windmills being much larger, you can't have as many around your fields. So, now it's worth actually having generators early on - and then upgrading to chemfuel generators later as technology advances. If you DON'T have good access to a riven for a watermill (or simply lack the room for multiple watermills) then the generators are the Next Best Thing. This is *wonderful*. Keeping them fed gets you more to manage, in a good way.
So, IM(n)HO, the power changes have made power management both easier (due to an easier component of consistent power generation) and more interesting (due to an increased dependence on fueled generation), with things like batteries being pushed back a bit giving you room to "grow" your power grids' capabilities over time.
Previously, my experience was: Solar panels and windmills with a couple switched battery banks (basically from day one) > geothermal later, and that was it.
Now? Wood Fired Generator+Watermill(s) early, with batteries and solar for capacity later, moving on to geothermal if possible (I've noticed far fewer geothermal vents in 1.0) and chemfuel generators for consistent generation. I'm really appreciating how the consistency allows me to plan my basic grid better with regards to heating/cooling/lighting.
I'm playing the beta for the first time, and I just experienced something a bit weird.
My colony is in a temperate Forest with large hills. Cassandra as the storyteller in hard difficulty.
It's 11th of Jugust, 5500. The fourth raid against my faction, Areria Accord begins, this time by a group of pirates from Mortar Rig. They decided to prepare before attacking. However, being the paranoids that they are, my colonists prepare immediately in a defensive position, while Darcie, the second-best shooter, decides to use her bolt-rifle to do a preemptive strike. As she gets closer to her targets she sees two men wielding a gladius and a club, wandering around an open area; one of them is walking far slower than the other. Darcie sets up and starts shooting the slower-moving man. BANG! A bullet goes through the man's lung. The other man immediately starts injecting a drug into his veins, and Darcie starts to run back to the sandbags, but after a few seconds... she realizes, there are no footsteps behind her.
The two men are still wondering like nothing happened...
Darcie, in confusion, just prepares to shoot again, and after a few misses, the wounded man perishes. The other flees. Victory! I guess.
Most anti-climatic raid so far. Not sure if that's a bug, a quirk of the difficulty or the game working as intended, this is the first time in ages that I attack preemptively, so I don't know. I expected them to either start attacking or look for cover, especially after one of them injected drugs on himself.
Either way, I'm enjoying the game so far. It feels a lot more comfortable with the new QoLs, I'm not micromanaging minor stuff as often, which is nice, I can focus on big projects better, I'm even considering caravaning. The new arts look really good. It feels very convenient (perhaps too much) how fast I can craft clothing, I don't think hypothermia is going to be a problem in winter. I'm looking forward to the mid and late game.
The only complain I have is that I spent a full 30 seconds figuring out how to change the materials for the butchering table. I'm too used to right-clicking that menu, and left-clicking doesn't feel as intuitive.
Quote from: Snafu_RW on July 07, 2018, 04:08:25 PM
Quote from: Gohihioh on July 07, 2018, 04:05:29 PM
So this pawn is stack there forerver since he can't move(caravan can't move since carrying too much) and he can't lower his weight(he can't give back chemfuel generator or can't drop his gear)
So send another 'van with a suitable pack animal & merge them?
I can't since it's like first year of colony and I have no pack animals.
Ye, well I found out find you can just throw away items in your inventory in caravan window, so i throw away chemfuel generator and returned to base with nothing. But I think it's still a bug. Since I would rather just get rid of my equipment than chemfuel generator. It should be possible to get rid of your equipment in caravan menu.
What's the point of getting quests in early game if you can't fullfill them.
Quote from: IndustryStandard on July 07, 2018, 04:37:46 PM
Tone down the rudeness please.
My comment is not a complaint, it's just feedback from an experience I had in relation to two things I thought were worth bringing up. My issues regarding power is that if you are on a map with a river, power is a non issue since river power has basically no downside and doesn't suffer from lack of batteries like solar and wind power do. Don't interpret this as saying different environments shouldn't have different obstacles to overcome just the current way it's setup specifically for power seems off to me. I think water and wind power plants should be researched for alongside solar, and that chem/fuel generators should be the starting form of power generation across all games, but we also shouldn't have to research batteries. There are many other ways to create problems, except water power has no real downsides so I constantly feel the urge to play only maps with rivers. To me, this isn't good.
And for the elephants going mad and killing everyone despite running through 4 doors, that isn't a problem to overcome, that was the game turning on a kill switch from 1 small thing and deciding I was going to lose my colonists. It had very little interaction.
Next time run away from the map as a caravan. Take nothing with you if you don't have time. Make multiple single person caravans (each man for himself, split up directions), and head for the hills (at least one person should be able to get away), while a pack of *elephants* is out to get you. Camp out for a few days. Meet up again as a group in some nearby hex. Go back "home" when it's safe again. Which it will be. They will calm down.
The game shouldn't sugar coat and hand you packaged solutions. This is what makes the game great. There ARE creative solutions (with sacrifice) to many, many things. Even Elephants vs. your wooden doors you chose to make...
And hunting elephants?? You really were tempting the fates... Better have a contingency if they do decide to wipe you out, which you didn't.
I need to clarify because I woefully screwed up my original wording, I didn't hunt the elephants directly, they got hit from cross fire while I was hunting monkeys.
And you can't leave the map as a caravan when the animals easily out run you.
Regardless, dearmad let me make it clear your comment prior was incredibly rude and not needed. Make sure you remember that everyone is entitled to their opinions and thoughts and that the team is carefully scoping through everything said to make sure that the overall experience is the best that can be offered for 1.0.
Negativity does nothing for anyone.
I read the updates that mentioned changes to plant growth. I've been playing in temperate forest in mountains with a year-round growing period and I absolutely HATE the bare ground everywhere. It should be rare to see bare dirt without some vegetation in this biome. And it never refills the map, not even close. It looks hideous. Please fix this.
I know there might be some balance issues with feeding herbivores if the map is full of grass, but I think it would be worth it. Growing hay just isn't that hard and having lots of grass isn't going to change anything at all as far as I can tell. The predators make it more effective to put your colony's herds inside walls anyway. So what if some don't grow huge fields of haygrass. It just won't change enough to make it worth the ugliness in my opinion. And if someone is playing on a biome without longer growing periods, then it would have less effect.
Animals just don't eat the landscape down to the dirt. And yes, I know that this game isn't about being totally real-life accurate. But the visuals are important, at least to me.
Quote from: Golden on July 07, 2018, 06:30:41 PM
I read the updates that mentioned changes to plant growth. I've been playing in temperate forest in mountains with a year-round growing period and I absolutely HATE the bare ground everywhere. It should be rare to see bare dirt without some vegetation in this biome. And it never refills the map, not even close. It looks hideous. Please fix this.
I know there might be some balance issues with feeding herbivores if the map is full of grass, but I think it would be worth it. Growing hay just isn't that hard and having lots of grass isn't going to change anything at all as far as I can tell. The predators make it more effective to put your colony's herds inside walls anyway. So what if some don't grow huge fields of haygrass. It just won't change enough to make it worth the ugliness in my opinion. And if someone is playing on a biome without longer growing periods, then it would have less effect.
Animals just don't eat the landscape down to the dirt. And yes, I know that this game isn't about being totally real-life accurate. But the visuals are important, at least to me.
Something related that I would like to see is slower tree growth, faster grass growth, and slower grass growth where there's a lot of traffic. It would mean that grass would still fill up the map, but you can't just leave a big herd of animals permanently in the same spot, otherwise the area will remain mostly barren. That would be a lot more realistic.
So, I just did some closely-controlled 1v1 testing to see which apparel fares better in combat: a bearskin duster, or a flak jacket.
Methodology:
* All pawns are trait-neutral (i.e. no tough people, wimps, brawlers, careful shooters or trigger-happies), 18 or older and healthy
* All pawns had level 20 shooting and melee skills
* All equipment was of normal quality,
* Along with either a flak jacket or bearskin duster, all fighting pawns also wore flak pants, a flak vest and a steel simple helmet
* Assault rifle testing was done with a distance of 20 cells between shooters. There was no cover
* There were walls between each fighting duo so that nobody else got hit by any stray shots
* Maces and gladii were made out of steel
* The terrain was concrete, so there's no dirt kicking
I first did a total of 60 trials when comparing the duster and flak jacket: 20 with assault rifles (a neutral ranged weapon), 20 with gladii (representing sharp melee combat), and 20 with maces (representing blunt melee combat). Each trial in turn consists of 10 1v1 battles running at once, and each score per trial is simply how many people on each side were left standing (pawns that were downed and getting back up again not being counted). Final scores are determined by simply tallying up the trial scores for each side. These were the results (click to expand):
(https://i.imgur.com/fOTk0M1.png)
Just to get a perspective on the value proposition for each side:
* A bearskin duster requires 80 bearskin and 167 seconds of work to produce. It's fairly low-tech and bears aren't that hard to find, plus bearskin is far from the most protective textile. Bearskin dusters also offer vastly superior insulation to flak jackets, as well as a lack of a movement speed penalty.
* A flak jacket requires 50 cloth, 80 steel, 1 component and 234 seconds of work.
As the first set of results show, a bearskin duster is basically on par with the flak jacket in terms of combat performance, all the while being much more accessible and practical outside of combat. In terms of stats, a bearskin duster does offer slightly inferior armour ratings (33.6% sharp, 7.2% blunt and 45% heat versus 40% sharp, 8% blunt and 10% heat), but it has the bonus of covering the legs. It's clear that this coverage advantage plays a bigger role than a minor resistance deficit.
Regarding the melee results, I'd personally consider them equivalent; there's a lot more margin of error and test-to-test variance in melee combat due to dodging - this technically favours dusters slightly owing to the fact they protect the legs.
So, after this initial set of results, I decided to see what'd the results would look like when buffing the armour ratings of the flak jacket from 40/8/10 to 60/12/15, and as you can see, the tables have indeed turned:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZszxVqO.png)
Melee results are still more-or-less the same owing to the aforementioned test variance. However, where the real improvement has been made is in ranged combat: the flak jacket now often wins against the bearskin duster, which makes sense - yet there are still occasions where the bearskin duster can also beat out the flak jacket (mostly with brain injuries, but still).
Either way, the point remains clear: flak jacket definitely needs a buff because right now, a bearskin duster is decisively the better piece of clothing to go for. Hope this is useful, and if there's any more of this sort of testing you particularly to see the results for!
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 07, 2018, 07:14:13 PM
Either way, the point remains clear: flak jacket definitely needs a buff because right now, a bearskin duster is decisively the better piece of clothing to go for. Hope this is useful, and if there's any more of this sort of testing you particularly to see the results for!
What is really interesting is power armor/helmet plus devilstrand underwear (heavy armor class, major investments into research and production) against devilstrand duster/shirt with flak vest/pants and advanced helmet (medium armor class, moderate stuff and research investments) against devilstrand everything (no movement penalties, no steel needed, minor research).
Quote from: Revshawn on July 07, 2018, 11:38:04 AM
After fighting minor mobs in rats and squirrels with a club in melee, I got an infection 3 out of 4 fights from minor wounds no more than 5 damage.
I mean I can play around it so I can 'win', but an infection from a minor wound proving to be lethal to a 20 year old just seems strange to me.
Welcome to life before the early 20th century!! That was basically the quality of life before antibiotics. Even an insect bite could mean death, let alone scratches and bites from disease ridden rodents.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 07, 2018, 01:14:13 PM
You've played way too much Darkest Dungeon, man :D I like it as well, but i really don't wanna see Rimworld turning into grim Dark Souls level suffering simulator.
Also we probably should end this, before Tynan gets rightfully pissed. If you wanna continue - lets make a separate thread, maybe with a poll and also ask others how they feel about it.
That's kinda what the hardest difficulty is meant to be, there's little room for mistakes. Have to play the numbers and mechanics. Grind, minmax, and exploit the AI. Tynan pretty much said so himself.
And you should! I know how much you love to argue lol, and that's fine, this just isn't the thread for it.
What it has to do with hardest difficulty? I don't play extreme.
Quote from: Golden on July 07, 2018, 06:30:41 PM
I read the updates that mentioned changes to plant growth. I've been playing in temperate forest in mountains with a year-round growing period and I absolutely HATE the bare ground everywhere. It should be rare to see bare dirt without some vegetation in this biome. And it never refills the map, not even close. It looks hideous. Please fix this.
I know there might be some balance issues with feeding herbivores if the map is full of grass, but I think it would be worth it. Growing hay just isn't that hard and having lots of grass isn't going to change anything at all as far as I can tell. The predators make it more effective to put your colony's herds inside walls anyway. So what if some don't grow huge fields of haygrass. It just won't change enough to make it worth the ugliness in my opinion. And if someone is playing on a biome without longer growing periods, then it would have less effect.
Animals just don't eat the landscape down to the dirt. And yes, I know that this game isn't about being totally real-life accurate. But the visuals are important, at least to me.
Agreed. It would be nice if the grass could piggyback off the infestation system, make grass sprout periodically throughout the map and then spread.
Also fix retreat paths please. I had a group of raiders attack my south wall, run away to the left, then try to run down through my base again. Probably trying to pass through to avoid the river. I'm guessing its that enemy pawns don't take doors into account as obstacles when retreating.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 07, 2018, 07:14:13 PM
.......flak jacket definitely needs a buff because right now, a bearskin duster is decisively the better piece of clothing to go for. Hope this is useful, and if there's any more of this sort of testing you particularly to see the results for!
This seems to be working fine. The thing is, bearskin is a lot harder to come by than flak jacket ingredients. Bearskin is a specifically "elite" leather type, so it's supposed to give great stats. IIRC it also does better in cold than flak.
You can mass produce flak because you can mass produce steel, cloth, and components. But it's hard to mass produce bearskin because farming bears is difficult and slow.
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:28:17 PM
This seems to be working fine. The thing is, bearskin is a lot harder to come by than flak jacket ingredients. Bearskin is a specifically "elite" leather type, so it's supposed to give great stats. IIRC it also does better in cold than flak.
You can mass produce flak because you can mass produce steel, cloth, and components. But it's hard to mass produce bearskin because farming bears is difficult and slow.
Cass extreme, about 200 days in, NB, temperate. I have had at least 3 manhunter packs of rhinos and at least 2 of polar bears. There's such a glut of elite leather it's being used for chairs and turned into patch leather for quests. Perhaps on high difficulty, these leathers are not so rare...
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:28:17 PM
The thing is, bearskin is a lot harder to come by than flak jacket ingredients. Bearskin is a specifically "elite" leather type, so it's supposed to give great stats. IIRC it also does better in cold than flak.
You can mass produce flak because you can mass produce steel, cloth, and components. But it's hard to mass produce bearskin because farming bears is difficult and slow.
Steel is one of the most scarce resources now. It has very limited sources and is used everywhere. High tier leathers? You get it for free and without any actual limit, just go and get them. In fact, I am calling caravans on regular basis, selling premium leather dusters (a lot of work to make - nice xp for crafters and best value per stockpile spot) to buy steel and components.
Yep, steel is much more valuable.
I encountered several scythers in my current playthrough(Extra Hard)
They are like durable and powerful panthers.
If I didn't had enough firepower(my pawns had three LMGs and one sniper rife), they could reach my pawns and probably kill them.
I think it was definitely not easy, but still manageable with preparation.
I have seen this bug twice today, once on a stream and once on my own map. Both Temperate Forest, One on Medium One on Hard. One on Cassandra and one on Phoebe.
When you have pawns set to a restricted area (both due to manhunter packs) if they decide to go outside to watch the sunset they ignore the restriction of the safety zone and the door restrictions. Walked right through.
Oh btw, I finally got the Tornado generator on a mission .. That is fun!!!
Just posting to say Steel>Bears in terms of how hard it is to acquire.
You have almost daily influxes of bears in most biomes, and once you get good enough weapons to take down a bear in 1 or 2 shots, bear hunting is trivial.
Steel is extremely finite since, no matter the map, there's a limit to how much you can get, even with deep drilling.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
Ive only run into mechanoids 4 or 5 times, and only in groups no greater than 2 so far. (Im at around year 3, around 48 thousand wealth)
But Ive noticed the Scythers(melee variant, havent met a range scyther yet, and so far never more than one) are not particularly threatening to me so far. Im sure they'd be scary if they got in melee range, but so far Ive been able to prevent it by overwhelming them with ranged firepower while they chase a bait colonist. I think this is only possible because of the short stuns that my 4 colonists with 10+ shoot all equip with bolt action rifles have on it. My bait has never been caught by a Scyther.
... My ranged firepower may be skewing the situation tho? Dunno what they are supposed to be balanced against.
Quote from: Admiral Obvious on July 07, 2018, 10:01:01 PM
Just posting to say Steel>Bears in terms of how hard it is to acquire.
...
Steel is extremely finite since, no matter the map, there's a limit to how much you can get, even with deep drilling.
I dunno about that. Im currently overstocked with steel.
4000+ in my stockpiles, and I haven't even touched the default deposits outside my base around the map.
Bears may be a "daily" occurrence but they are usually only 1 or 2 at most in my experience, and they require more direct micro and control to acquire their leathers
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
They are quick, I like that, had a colony over 200k, got scythers, lancers and centipedes 2 patches ago. I think they are just right but have not been able to get to mega colony size yet to truly test.
Loving the game so far, last time I played Rimworld caravaning wasn't a thing. I'm playing Cassandra medium, mountainous temperate forest. My biggest screwup so far was building IEDs around a poison ship. I take note that mechanoids don't appreciate you doing that now, somebody lost a torso and I had to use a resurrector serum that time.
I have been playing for several builds so I will just mention what I think is still relevant currently:
- In an incapacitated refugee event, striping the incapacitated pawn will make him join your colony. Please no game, I didn't offer him help, I don't want him, I only want his stupid shirt for all the trouble of coming here. I had to revert to an earlier save, if that is working as intended then I feel the strip option is misleading.
- I find myself cursing the pathfinding algorithm since it has the habit of pathing through 3 doors inside a room instead of around the room, animals in particular. I had to modify my colony a bit so could avoid animals walking through the freezer and kitchen whenever I changed their areas.
- More of a bug, somehow I had a muffalo that wasn't assigned to any pawn ignore area restrictions, it was after treating its wounds I think. I had to sell it.
- Opening a grave usually means the pawn putting the corpse back in, you have to pause and change the grave's storage settings if you want to empty it. It gets tedious if you want to remove a graveyard.
- I rescued a pawn from a escape pod, only to have him die to a single hoof of a manhunting alpaca. Not only there's the problem that these guys like to leave the map when they can barely walk, but this guy died without a critical wound. I feel the chance to die when downed shouldn't apply for these rescued non-colonists.
- I dislike how every squirrel and rabbit can trigger traps now, my traps are meant for raiders and scythers, having to rearm them so often is a waste of pawn time for so little meat. I prefer the previous system, although before the change I had to take faction penalty because a friendly caravan managed to step into one and If I banished a colonist he would die in the traps near the entrance of the colony, "I hope he'll make it" -3 mood, right, he's dead right there.
- While doing a stash quest that was defended by turrets, I captured an enemy pawn that had pretty good stats. 14 shooting, 15 cooking, I'm totally recruiting her I thought until I saw that she was ascetic and a gourmand. Not only I think those traits are contradictory, but the +50% hunger plus her preference for raw food meant that she would eat the food that could feed like 3 pawns. That was a good pawn but no 3 pawns good, and I wasn't going to figure out how to force feed her meals while also allowing her to cook.
- During a volcanic winter I set for slaughter any animal that were down because of starvation (couldn't spare the food) but pawns would still try to feed them anyway.
- I don't know that is the purpose of the firefoam trap. The description doesn't give any hint, in what circumstance or why I would want to spray enemies with fire-extinguishing foam? I like my raiders burnt and crispy
- Nutrition eaten per day isn't in the information dialog of pawns and animals, you have to resort to the form caravan dialog for get that information.
- Materials doesn't give information about the health points of structures built with them. I had to build a marble, slate and limestone wall before choosing which one to use.
Some QoL I would really like:
- A way to assign medical operations to an specific medic, the same way you can do with workbenches' bills. A copy-paste for all bills, not just individual bill, for dealing with multiple workbenches. Drag&drop for bill priorities.
- And holy sweet gaben, comparing the stats of anything is a royal pain in the ass, is a back and forth clickfest and you have to keep the numbers in your head. I would really appreciate an interface for comparing the stats of pawns and items.
I'm not really pushing for the endgame and still haven't done half of the research tree so there is still a lot of stuff for me to see, in any way this is a great update.
Quote from: m44v on July 07, 2018, 10:24:08 PM
Materials doesn't give information about the health points of structures built with them. I had to build a marble, slate and limestone wall before choosing which one to use.
After selecting material, you can press "i" near description in architect menu to see stats. Not exactly obvious, but it is here. But for stuffed bills there is no way to know until you craft it and "i" for the recipe is quite useless. One for the details of the already created bill is a bit more informative, but it is hidden after a bunch of clicks and still gives little to clarify stuffed production.
BTW about bills. I appreciate cremation in clothes, but it would be nice to at least take that pretty expensive shield belts - they are only relatively valuable things raids can bring.
Amazing feedback m44v. First post hero right here!
Quote from: rdshea3 on July 07, 2018, 10:48:36 AM
Pitching in with a small observation I haven't seen around here just yet.
My pawns won't prefer power armor to devilstrand duster + flak jacket/pants. I understand the armor might be similar over chest but coverage is far different. They also prefer advanced plasteel helmets to power armor helmets. I get if the power armor helmet is low hp it makes sense to prefer, but even fresh good power armor gets ignored.
In my previous power armor ready game, I didn't have devilstrand, and when I would set a persons outfit to allow power armor they would go swap it out first thing even with flak.
I'm having this same sort of issue with regular clothing as well. I have a colonist that insists on wearing a normal leather tribal outfit @ 90% instead of alpaca or heavy fur 100% shirt and pants that are normal and good quality.
Not gonna pretend I'm not hurt over the lack of love of my first post from Tynan.
Quote from: Dsbinbuffalo on July 07, 2018, 11:05:27 PM
Not gonna pretend I'm not hurt over the lack of love of my first post from Tynan.
Yours was amazing too. Let me express my great sorrow for not calling it out by name.
Have a story on the current state of the Thrumbo / Traps. Not sure which side this problem lies on but, here goes:
As you can see in the image, I'm attempting to take down a Thrumbo. Just previous to this (you can still see a freshly-made corpse) a tribal raid occurs and they come down through a cave system I've trapped. Every trap was hit and triggered (first raid from this faction.)
At this point it's time to take the Thrumbo down, before it decides to move on ;) Lacey has no fear and has volunteered to take the first shot. Several plinks later we've got a few wounds and the Thrumbo loses it. Lacey runs for her life and nearly loses it but, Thrumbo hits the first trap and slows down. Lacey cleans her pants up and keeps running. Things look good -- We're eating Thrumbo and wearing glitzy fur coats, tonight! Then, Lacey looks over her shoulder in horror as this wily Thrumbo carefully steps around the next series of traps. She was sure it'd just chase her in the straight line, along the wall they both ran.
No. Mr. Thrumbo (I have to call him Mr. now, as he's attained sentience and is quite intelligent) proceeds to GO AROUND the line of traps. This was all coming at the group. A few shots later and Nils is running for his life as an accidental decoy. Here's where the image comes in. Once again, Mr. Thrumbo is running straight along the wall (where you see the red line begin.) Mr. Thrumbo makes a natural deviation to attack our best dog ever, Lady D:< Lady takes shit from nothing and fights back. Now, we love Lady and command her to get her newly "docked" butt out of there (RIP waggin' tails.)
Lady and Mr. Thrumbo went Friday Night Fights at the red box. Lady escapes, as Mr. Thrumbo takes a couple shots and moves toward Nils. Lady has gone straight up and starts to flee. By all rights, the colonists are waiting for Mr. Thrumbo to go right over the couple of traps in front its path so they can praise the sun.
As one can see, this never happened. Mr. Thrumbo follows the red line, post-fight. Lady took the blue route. Mr. Thrumbo says damn the fastest route, I'm going around.
I hope this helps highlight a bit of a funny issue. I'm not sure Thrumbos are meant to recognize and avoid traps. I don't have video but, I've attempted to replicate the moment with my terrible drawing. It was VERY obvious the Thrumbo was taking every pain to avoid the traps, after hitting the first. You can even see where it began moving upward and then stopped to course-correct back down and around. Thanks.
*Version 1.0.1957 -- Started this one in .1956;
*Extreme Difficulty
*Cassandra Classic
*Crashlanded
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 11:13:01 PM
Quote from: Dsbinbuffalo on July 07, 2018, 11:05:27 PM
Not gonna pretend I'm not hurt over the lack of love of my first post from Tynan.
Yours was amazing too. Let me express my great sorrow for not calling it out by name.
Thank you for acknowledging my obvious attempt at fishing for your attention! ;D
Much love dude. I love your game! :-*
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/8wr50q/10_unstable_scythers_are_stupidly_powerful/ here's the thread I made on it. I'd take the downvote-bombing it received with a grain of salt, though. Again, by design, Reddit is not the place for dissenting opinions. I was also particularly patient this time around with the multiple threads of discussion within. I tried ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Basically in that thread there were a handful of arguments saying that melee Scythers are fine the way they are - firstly that there are EMP mortars and grenades. But mortars are very inaccurate, and nailing a melee Scyther running you down with one is likely impossible. Grenades are more useful in comparison, but only when the Scyther has reached melee range and is carving your pawn up, because the Scyther is stationary at that point. It then becomes an issue of smothering the Scyther with EMP until you redirect all your pawns to kill it, while the Lancers or Centipedes pick off your pawns at a distance. Eventually the Scyther will become immune to the EMP, and all hell breaks loose.
There's the other argument of making killboxes/kill hallways. If I recall correctly, that's not how you envisioned Rimworld to be played. I personally don't take satisfaction in making a room designed to exploit the AI pathing, so I don't use killboxes, and I shouldn't be forced to make one to deal with a single enemy type.
There's also setting traps like deadfall or EMP mines. The former seems rather hit or miss. Unless you carpet the area between the ship and your pawns with deadfall traps, the Scythers might just sidestep them. The EMP mines seem a bit more reasonable, but they're single use.
Finally there is the argument for melee pawns, since Scythers have less armor vs. blunt. I personally have never used melee pawns in the 550-ish hours I've put into Rimworld, and I have a whole host of reasons why this is, but that's a discussion for a different day. Long story short, I just don't use them because it's too risky. And I shouldn't be forced to adopt melee pawns to patch up one gigantic hole in my tactics that just appeared out of nowhere with the advent of melee Scythers.
What do I suggest to balance Scythers? First up is lower Scyther's sharp armor. Currently it sits at 72% (iirc), which is only 8% away from Centipede's sharp armor. I don't think melee-only shock troopers would feasibly be on par with tank-like centipedes, especially since melee Scythers are SO much faster than centipedes. You could also slightly lower Scyther's move speed, since closing the distance is the only requirement for them to start dishing crazy melee DPS. Scythers behave as the shock troops that charge the enemy and cause chaos within the player's firing line, but given their speed, their raw damage, the way they shrug off bullets, and their ranged backup, it seems too unreasonable to expect someone in the early/mid game to handle it.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
I got a poison ship on a tribal randy rough. I had about 7 pawns armed with 1 grenade, a good lmg I got from a quest, and some bolt actions i scrounged from raiders. I have an emp that some raiders brought to use on me, even though I don't have electricity yet. I had various mostly tainted flavk vests and pants, no jackets but not enough for everyone.
I brought 2 guns plus the two grenades to bear. A melee and a lance spawned. The lance immediately got stunned, and the melee charged the emp guy. The grenades took out the stunned lancer before I even realized he was still throwing them. I backed up my emp guy and brought forward my brawler with the jade knife. The brawler got the attention quickly and the emp guy stunned the melee. Lots of cuts but no serious injury. The emp guy has the wimp trait so I was sweating it when the melee charged, lol.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 07, 2018, 11:17:52 PM
As one can see, this never happened. Mr. Thrumbo follows the red line, post-fight. Lady took the blue route. Mr. Thrumbo says damn the fastest route, I'm going around.
While pathfinding in 1.0 feels much better, it sometimes takes strange routes. Remove that rock chunk. I am using traps around the corners extensively, and they are great, but the path along the wall should be cleared and optionally floored so pathfinding would prefer it. My personal favorite - trapping walls around geothermals.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quick piece of Scyther feedback -
Their tendency to get separated from their slower mechanoid friends makes them hard to judge properly.
They really do range from mild speedbumps that get gunned down immediately to " Oh my god there's three killer robots in my hospital and 6 of my pawns have the flu "
Other than that I don't personally find them particularly threatening but.. it's a fine line. They've got serious fiasco potential as they'll cut down multiple pawns in melee if you can't get control over the situation quickly - 8 scythers dropping into the middle of your base can do some serious damage.
Those same 8 scythers running in from the edges of the map are a laughable pile of scrap.
As it stands because they're almost always separated from Lancers and Centipedes Scythers have to either reach critical mass or attack you in such a way that's hard to deal with - A caravan ambush, a drop pod attack, ect.
I definitely prefer them being separate entities from Lancers, the ability to melee Lancers and shoot Scythers is a basic but satisfying combat strategy
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I found that in my melee colony I didn't have any issues beating them to death with maces, though they were certainly the enemy type most likely to cause serious injury or death. Mostly they're so flimsy that ~5 pawns can instantly gib them with good melee weapons in a single volley.
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The uhh.. gun quality bonuses are pretty freaking noticeable.
The moment that you're able to manufacture guns there's serious incentive to brute-force excellent quality weapons which isn't the best experience. The incentive to create quality weapons was already fairly high, the current changes really tip the balance and encourage you to dedicated a lot of your manpower/wealth on gun manufacture.
It's not just efficient from a combat perspective - selling off all the lower quality weapons effectively lowers your wealth which also increases your colonist's strength relative to attacks.
To be perfectly frank I'm of the opinion that weapon quality should probably only increase the damage of Masterwork/Legendary ranged weapons.
Being able to reasonably consistently churn out good/excellent quality weapons currently makes the game exponentially easier. The fact that both Damage and AP are increased in addition to the accuracy bonus is.. a freakin' doozy.
There are also some important break points, like (Good) Bolt Action Rifles being able to destroy someone's liver in a single shot which generally makes combat a bit more volatile.
I like the idea behind high quality weapons being better in ways beyond simple accuracy bonuses (after all, the gun can only be as good as the pawn if only accuracy is affected) but as it stands the current changes make virtually all player-used weaponry ~15-30% better and it's really noticeable.
Surprisingly my melee colony was broadly unaffected by the ranged weapon quality changes but I'm mostly putting that down to Shield Belts and my ridiculous 32 population.
I will admit that it's occasionally very cool to go "OooO that raider has a high quality gun.. wait.. oh god he's got a high quality gun!".. but on the other hand it does require you to actually look at all their guns to do that :P
New build!
Still lots to do.
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Fewer ranged weapon qualities have damage impact (only awful, masterwork and legendary.)
Apparel burning bill now excludes belts by default.
Ascetic and gourmand traits are exclusive.
We now send a letter after you research ship basics explaining how the sequence works.
Remove unused ResearchProjectDef.descriptionDiscovered.
Rebalanced points scaling for world challenges.
Tuned some healing rates.
Adjust wild animal spawn rate and manhunter chances.
Points value of one pawn scales somewhat with wealth. So late-game pawn reduction will reduce threats a bit more (hopefully making post-losses recovery and caravans more reasonable).
Rebalance charge/assault rifle to have 3-round burst, rebalance pistols slightly.
Mad animal letter label names the animal.
Make waterproof conduit cost 3 steel.
Fix: you require construction skill to build a Tube TV but not for a Flatscreen TV.
Adjusted some gun ranges.
Adjust weapon index ranges.
Slight buff to assault rifle.
Adjusted quality variance in gear generated for NPCs.
Assault Rifles are truly the thinking man's gun.
Cassandra rough \ Mountainous \ 20/60 Boreal that gets down to -20F \ River + dirt road.
I'm also going to chime in on leathers and duster/parka vs flak jackets - It's not just bears that are elite leather. Megatherium and Thrumbo are even better! I've only had 7 thrumbo show up in 4 years, but that's enough to outfit a colony of 10-12 in 100% sharp resist dusters or parkas. I have 9 thrumbo parkas and 12 heavy fur dusters above normal grade right now, for 13 colonists.
Then you get the occasional man-hunting event. I've had both sloths and bears come knocking in 10+ packs so far. Even without manhunter packs, I harvest 3-4 bear and sloth a year. Elite leather isn't rare, with those rates.
The flak pants and vests are great, but the jackets need a niche.
Now that my first crop of Devilstrand finally came in, everyone is dressed like Stone.
Stone is the wall upon which Scyther hordes break. He and his Warg Gracie can usually take out 3-4 if they come at him one by one. Tough is an even better trait than Brawler, for getting into things, it seems.
Edit Build 1958 is out. New build, time for a new unmodded colony. Will report back!
[attachment deleted due to age]
God, how nice it is to have three-shot assault rifles back! Thanks, Tynan. Also I ll proceed to experiment with world events scaling as soon as I get home and provide some feedback once again.
Also please do consider adding comfort to quality clothing once again. Legendary and masterwork versions of it at least - most legendary items have distinct advantages now, making it worth of trying to get them (more damage, rest effectiveness, etc). Clothing only has armor rating, which will still be worse than dedicated armor. So a unique advantage for quality clothing would also be nice to have.
Aw man, I just sold off my one Assault Rifle, and now I learn that they're back to three-shot? Well, time to get a-crafting and try them out.
So I had a thought earlier when I was reading feedback about armor slowdown. If it matters, for context I've moved and fought in both steel plate armor (SCA; not FULL plate, though I've worn it once, but still plate) and various forms of flak vests and kevlar helmets, with swords and rifles.
Now, plate armor is going to slow you down. It just is. It's heavy, it's bulky, and it's designed to protect more than it is to give you a full range of motion. It's great against cutting, fairly decent against blunt, and so-so to straight up useless against piercing. But at the same time, you can absolutely sprint in plate armor and if you're used to it, you can run or jog for a good amount of time when necessary.
But modern protective armor, like flak vests/jackets/pants etc. are bulky, they're heavy, but they're also much more flexible and when fitted properly (and I don't mean tailored; I mean strapped and adjusted to your body) they're easy to move in and once you're use to them they don't slow you down much.
What I can attest these armors do is tire you the fuck out. What about if, in lieu of a speed decrease, they give you penalties to food, rest and comfort consumption?
An additional thought, though it may not worth the effort to implement, but it's interesting anyway... Modern body armor takes forever to put on... ONCE. Once the armor is adjusted and strapped for your body, it's literally 30 seconds to put on both vest and helmet; flak pants aren't really a thing in the U.S. Army, so I can't speak for those. The best we have are knee and elbow pads, but those don't stop bullets. If armor could be assigned to a pawn, similarly to how beds are, then having them put it on the first time could take a LOT longer, as would switching armors up willy-nilly, but putting on their assigned armor would be a lot quicker.
I think these changes would create the paradigm you're looking for, where pawns aren't wandering around in full armor all the time, but put it on before a raid or for a dangerous hunt. The former (rest/hunger/comfort degradations in lieu of speed penalty) seems like it would be easy to implement, at least.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 08, 2018, 01:19:56 AM
God, how nice it is to have three-shot assault rifles back! Thanks, Tynan. Also I ll proceed to experiment with world events scaling as soon as I get home and provide some feedback once again.
Also please do consider adding comfort to quality clothing once again. Legendary and masterwork versions of it at least - most legendary items have distinct advantages now, making it worth of trying to get them (more damage, rest effectiveness, etc). Clothing only has armor rating, which will still be worse than dedicated armor. So a unique advantage for quality clothing would also be nice to have.
I agree on both accounts! Now that weapons have a unique secondary effect, accuracy and damage, it would be swell if clothes had armor/temp resist and happy thoughts! Could make it really stand out too, see a world event and think, "Wow, that would really help calm down my skittish pacifist researcher..."
A drop pod raid happened with mechanoids inside the base and it was really easy to defeat because all of the enemies were the ranged lancers instead of the melee scythers. drop pod mechanoid raids should be primarily melee enemies and have few ranged enemies to make it more of a threat for close quarter combat.
Just here to thank you thank you for bringing back 3 shot burst assault rifle and to humbly ask you to look into something: Often times i gamble my naked brutality pawn's life on the very first seconds by opening an ancient ruin upon landing; If i get hives instead of mechanoids sometimes i walk away with a legendary charge rifle or power armor on the first minute of the game which is weird.
My suggestion: Just have the hives have some angry insects actually guarding the loot because as it is i can just destroy the hives and walk away with endgame loot before i build a campfire.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 08, 2018, 01:42:22 AM
What I can attest these armors do is tire you the fuck out. What about if, in lieu of a speed decrease, they give you penalties to food, rest and comfort consumption?
From what I understand, the issue isn't a matter of appropriate penalties to dissuade constant armor use.
The problem is that if you have penalties on your armor, then the alternative is to only wear armor for raids. But this is awkward and tedious micromanagement - armor on for raid, armor off again afterwards - that just makes raids more annoying.
The solution can be "have pawns automatically suit up/remove gear after fights" but that has it's own design difficulties and is a big mess of potential problems. There's a lot of work that would have to go into armor being actually worth wearing without involving tedious micromanagement to get the most out of it.
Similar logic applies to the parka. It used to have a work speed penalty, and now it does not. Sure, "realistically" parkas ARE large and bulky and annoying to work in. However, "realistically" you'd just take your parka off when you went inside, and put it on when you went outside. This would either (again) require tedious micromanagement or a lot more design work (where do they put their coats? What if they're going in and out frequently? which coat is theirs? What if they need to exit by a different door? yada, yada, yada).
It's not that these issues are not solveable, but rather that it's not really worth solving them for such trivial gain - just the "realism" of some coats/armor having some form of penalties to wear effectively because reasons.
Played a bit more of my deep underground base, was annoyingly also sick so only about two seasons.
Another siege comes, this time a fair amount bigger. Since I'm fully in the mountains, I'm not really forced to deal with it, but I may as well since they still have no snipers. A single guy with a rifle takes care of it, although he gets pretty close to becoming mortar food in the process.
Randy apparently was confused, and thought I was launching a spaceship in the last 24 hours, and threw 3 raids following an initial raid of a refugee in the span of a day. I only take two hits as the killbox is pretty efficient; however, one of those hits was a shot straight to the heart with a sniper rifle through plate armor, so I lose the second of the two miners I embarked with. Not exactly stellar for a mountain base. Considering that crapstorm would have probably ended a normal base I guess I should be grateful I was in the mountains :)
On the other hand, either I'm just not used to mountain bases, or outdoor needs got insanely higher in 1.0. Pretty much everyone is going insane and I'm constantly sending people outside for nearly an entire day just drafted sitting around, so work is going at a snails pace. It's honestly kind of sapping my desire to play it out, although that probably has more to do with just being sick xD Below shows the absolutely brutal mood graph.
Hopefully there's another player out there cowardly brave enough to play a mountain base to confirm this feeling.
Steel needs are becoming difficult to deal with and since I still need hydroponics for the second winter, traps, armor, weapons to deal with infestations, and more turret upkeep, I end up breaking down and mining for steel adjacent to my base perimeter rather than walking like 10 miles to get to the steel outside. If I get an area revealed in a really bad way I'm just going to have to deal with it.
[attachment deleted due to age]
My feedback on Scythers, and kind of just Mechanoids in general:
I don't have too many issues dealing with them personally. Like someone else also mentioned above, since I play on large maps, the ship part lands quite a distance away, and then when I aggro them, the scythers get pulled much further away from all their support like the lancers and the centipedes. Due to the stopping power effect of some weapons, if the scythers actually manage to make it to my sandbags, I can just kite who they go for back and wipe them out. Usually the lancers still haven't made it to my defenses, and so they can't even capitalize on one of my colonists moving away from the cover.
However, should I actually do something like place sandbags near the ship and attempt to take them on fairly, I typically get stomped. The scyther is really strong when it manages to engage my colonist, but honestly, the biggest worry is that its taking one of my guns out of the fight. The biggest threat of all the Mechanoids in my opinion is the inferno cannon wielding centipede. I've posted about it here and there (not here, usually on reddit), and I'm not sure if its just me, but I can't stand the mechanic of a colonist getting lit on fire, and then running out in the middle of all the gunfire and getting lit up not only from the other mechanoids, but also from some of the turret and fellow colonist fire.
Thats just me needing to rant about fire. Anyways, aside from the inferno cannon, as long as my colonists stay behind cover, centipedes are easy, and I usually focus the lancers over them and only take them on when all the lancers are dead.
I think lancers are in a really good spot right now personally. The charge lance isn't so amazingly accurate that it domes a colonist every time it shoots, but its decently so, and it has a large amount of armor piercing and damage that makes it just threatening enough that I have to worry about that next shot taking off a limb.
Quote from: Tynan on July 08, 2018, 12:21:15 AM
Rebalanced points scaling for world challenges.
I've just done a speedrun, crashlanded, extreme, to test the quests. Now they are
always worth it. Quests used to be relatively harder than home threat until mid game, now they are easier, even early game. Even if you doesn't like the item, you should just go there to clear the quest at some point, to get the diplomatic reward and get another bandit camp.
On a side note, the letter has not been updated, you often get more than 1 item, and only one is displayed in the letter and on the world site.
I like the change, but with the new curve + the nerf on wealth points (1 -> .75 -> .6) they may be slightly too easy. Btw, the new balance between wealth and colonists is a positive change, colonists didn't weight enough and i used not to feel the raid discount after a near wipe.
Scythers are ok here, still a big threat but not unbeatable
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
midgame'ish colony at 250k on cassandra hard, scythers seem ok so far. They pretty much force you to have some melee guys to hold them at bay, and with decent armour and some evasion from melee skill you can usually stall scythers enough to let ranged pawns dps them down. They add some panic factor but don't feel too too OP right now imo
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on July 08, 2018, 05:12:34 AM
I've just done a speedrun, crashlanded, extreme, to test the quests. Now they are always worth it. Quests used to be relatively harder than home threat until mid game, now they are easier, even early game. Even if you doesn't like the item, you should just go there to clear the quest at some point, to get the diplomatic reward and get another bandit camp.
Thats really good to hear. Quests are supposed to be worthwhile endeavor, not a death trap, should you not have 10 people available in full space marine armor set. Though i will also do some experimenting to see how it plays out on different wealth levels and difficulties to say for sure.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
So I definitely think they're a bit overtuned... particularly in conjunction with drop pods. I've lost several people this colony to drop pods with scythers, and it's hard to come up with good counterplay. You have limited time as they destroy furniture and doors in a a rather short time. Ideally you use EMP grenades, as fighting without them is pretty much certain death. Last night a group came in, and they downed my EMP grenadier in a single hit as he popped the door to toss one in (which admittedly was bad play, shoulda had a melee breach the door with him behind them, but they were getting close to breaking out and I panicked a bit). After that even with 5 or 6 pawns shooting, 2 melee pawns in front, and 4 or 5 animals, against 3 scythers in close quarters losses were substantial: 2 dead alpaca, 1 dead pig, 1 dead Elephant, 2 dead colonists (1 melee, 1 ranged), all colonists having injuries.
On the flip side, if they land outside my base, traps make short work of them. It seems you just changed traps back to hit colonists or at least colony animals again (as one took out one of my Alpaca on 1958), which is sad :(... If that's not a bug it's rough, back once again to weird door hallways and such. Personally I'd prefer if traps had a large speed debuff for colonists/allies but couldn't trip (possibly allowing tripping if wandering confused or on fire).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1435124242
Above is a link to pawn social dialogue. I have seen this a few times. I have never tried to court myself or tried to woo myself. It does read quite funny. Maybe it is intended?
I do love reading the new dialogue, but it may need a second look.
Hello, first time poster here, I just wanted to give some feedback for 1.0 and Rimworld as a whole prepare for a great wall of text
One is the balance around the materials on the game, right now it is simply always Steel, or plasteel when it is available. Of all the materials in the game, there is basically no blunt-resistant stuff at all. Yes I understand that you want that Impact damage is generally less resisted, as it should, but it still means that my melee fighters will always get one or two punches in fights despite being well armored.
Thats why Uranium should have greater blunt-armor properties since it doesn't have many good niches other than flammability compared to plasteel, not sure on what the exact number should be but it should be the best at doing that. As right now it has very little redeemable qualities other than great health and no flammability, so Plate armor out of uranium(Could you make flak-vests out of all materials or was that a mod?) would be more resistant to punches and such alike. But less towards sharp threats.
Also some sort of textile materials that are more impact resistant than others, maybe Synthread should be because I have realised that Synthread... is now a really bad material. Other than durability it seems. Would make sense since blunt damage is a very primitive damage source, so incase they were to get in a social fight, they'd be ready for that because it is a very 'casual' material.
Now, to keep the balance of blunt damage still being less resisted. A fully decked out blunt-defense set should still not have as much Blunt defense as a full Sharp-armor oriented set. If there's a raid where you can ensure there is little melee sharp damage happening and you got a sufficiently powerful Shield-belt, then such equipment would be appropriate.
Oh and another thing, regarding the weapon properties of metallic stuff. Plasteel is basically the best, no matter what. In my opinion, Steel, Plasteel and Uranium should be more balanced on focusing on it's own thing. Plasteel has a bit lower cooldown and is the greatest at Sharp damage, but the blunt-bashes are much weaker. Uranium is the KO-king while having okay Sharp damage but great Blunt damage, however, the cooldown should be around 115%, instead of 135%. Still having it be a Skill-requiring material. And steel is a nice mix between blunt and sharp. 100% attack speed like right now. So a Longsword that can do good pommel bashes and slices is possible. Hurray for variety.
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And another thing related to armor, Social chat impact could have a little tweaking so it is dependent on material. So each textile got a social chat modifier. Now to balance this out the social chat impact values could be reduced in turn so it isn't much less or more than vanilla. Maybe Dusters/Jackets also have a little bit of Social-chat impact bonus so this doesn't only apply to cowboy hats and tophats. Like, 5% or so.
Rare and snazzy textiles got higher social chat impact, such as Synthread, Bearskin, Thrumbofur and similar. Maybe you can craft/buy a gold-sewn fabric which is really expensive but gives a large social chat bonus. Devilstrand may have lower because I can imagine it looking ugly. Also discourages having extreme formality policies where everyone is wearing the same red. Materials such as Light-leather or.. uh, Human skin got lower than average. This gives choices in clothing materials a second option-thought if you want Insulation. Perhaps quality affects it too.
Lets say, A Cowboy hat has 10% base social-impact. Thrumbofur has a 200% modifier,
This cowboy hat now has +20% social-chat impact. Simply, really. Not sure if it is possible but perhaps Human-skin got a negative modifier? -50% or something.
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And finally, the Social-system should be more punishing where immoral actions as organ-harvest, murder, cannibalism and such should have much larger reputation losses. Killing someones friend, butchering them, and eating them gives less goodwill with another colonist than being a little ugly. Yeah, right.
Maybe have more causes to like people as well? 'Cooked the colony a meal', 'Tended to me skillfully', 'Is holding X pawns weapon(excellent quality), surely, people would respect a doctor a little extra. If they're an actually good at it.
Combined with the Apparel social chat impact bonus idea, someone that eats people, butchers them himself, and wears Human skin, they will guaranteed to be disgusted and treated as an outcast unless they actually become buddies with somebody.
This is a suggestion I've had since ages, there should be variants to a 'Social fight'. Either they are triggering longer-lasting debonuses when it comes to interacting with the other pawn, or snapping and doing something short like a social fight. Some ideas could be:
Heated argument where they stand to argumentate for a bit, which has two possible results, they get on better terms with eachother, or it gets even worse.
Maybe this guy gets a mood debonus whenever he is in presence of the person they hate for a week(So having seperate Dining halls and rec rooms could be helpful)
Perhaps the person now simply will refuse to heal/rescue the other person?
This could also happen in the opposite way, where good friends may get beneficial bonuses from being pals. Such as sometimes inspiring a little XP boost in things they got passion in, Recreation gain from speaking with eachother, blabla. You get the idea.
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Phew. That was a lot to write. It has been ideas I've been thinking of for a long time that touches less looked at parts of the game, in my opinion.
(Also, minor thing. The mace sprite still looks a bit out of place and a little too small. Now when there's so many sprite changes, the mace could definitely need one.)
Quote from: Oblitus on July 07, 2018, 07:28:04 PM
What is really interesting is power armor/helmet plus devilstrand underwear (heavy armor class, major investments into research and production) against devilstrand duster/shirt with flak vest/pants and advanced helmet (medium armor class, moderate stuff and research investments) against devilstrand everything (no movement penalties, no steel needed, minor research).
Ask and you shall receive! I only did a total of 90 trials (900 battles) rather than 120 since we were talking 3 teams rather than 2. Methodology remains mostly the same as last time, except all gear was of good quality (realistic for when you'd consider producing these things ingame), and the melee weapons were made out of plasteel. Advanced helmet was still made out of steel, but as you'll see, power armour was unsurprisingly largely dominant so plasteel probably wouldn't have made a huge difference.
Heavy armour vs. medium:
(https://i.imgur.com/9xVuFn9.png)
Medium armour vs. light:
(https://i.imgur.com/sBS4z4e.png)
And, last but not least, heavy vs. light:
(https://i.imgur.com/YfwAjv9.png)
The blunt melee results were quite interesting, with all of them probably being within test variance (which is particularly large with melee). Also interesting that there were 15 ties in ranged testing between medium and light. Out of the 2 wins that light got against heavy, one was actual pain shock and the other was a lucky brain shot.
Not going to do any more 1v1 testing on this thread though since it is somewhat off-topic.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:28:17 PM
The thing is, bearskin is a lot harder to come by than flak jacket ingredients.
You'll be surprised. Although it is a bit of a playstyle thing admittedly, I don't start producing armour until the mid-game since that's when it's the most viable stage to start doing it, and by mid-game there's normally a decent amount of leather (in this case, bearskin and better) in storage, and the fact that mid-game is possibly the most steel-intensive stage of the game (at least relative to supply) means that there's not a huge amount of steel to spare for flak jackets. Right now, flak vests and bearskin (or better) dusters are just the more logical investment to go for.
Plus going into the later mid-game, manhunter packs of bears soon start happening, and that's an easy way to get hundreds of the stuff in storage. Although the steel supply problem gets alleviated since I tend to do deep drilling by late-game, I'd already be considering power armour anyway.
What about other materials for building bridge? Steel or stones maybe I'm playing on desert right now and I have no wood to build bridges.
Scythers are just right, they go down reasonably easily if you have a decent amount of ranged dps.
Quote from: Boboid on July 07, 2018, 11:51:33 PM
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To be perfectly frank I'm of the opinion that weapon quality should probably only increase the damage of Masterwork/Legendary ranged weapons.
Being able to reasonably consistently churn out good/excellent quality weapons currently makes the game exponentially easier. The fact that both Damage and AP are increased in addition to the accuracy bonus is.. a freakin' doozy.
There are also some important break points, like (Good) Bolt Action Rifles being able to destroy someone's liver in a single shot which generally makes combat a bit more volatile.
I like the idea behind high quality weapons being better in ways beyond simple accuracy bonuses (after all, the gun can only be as good as the pawn if only accuracy is affected) but as it stands the current changes make virtually all player-used weaponry ~15-30% better and it's really noticeable.
...
I think one of the things that quality should have an impact on is down time between shots.
A poorly constructed gun is more likely to jam in some manner. I dunno if it would be good to implement an actual "jammed gun" mechanic or just abstract it with increased cool down/reload times for lower quality weapons, but it makes more sense to me than damage and AP bonuses...
A awful gun doing less damage do i hand wave as it coming with really poorly hand loaded ammunition and a warped barrel slowing the projectile down.
Besides i noticed that even with just a good quality minigun it now did 1 more damage than its normal counterpart :D.
I hate to say this but - Plasteel Plate Armor has 810 durability making it almost indestructible in a normal time scale. While it's really nice to be able to make an expensive piece of armor that will - for all intents and purposes - last forever, it's probably a bit much.
Power armor has 340 durability, steel plate armor 290. Just for reference.
Have to say that the plate armor speed penalty is quite noticeable in my melee colony - mostly in terms of manpower. It's manageable but noticeable when 70% of your colonists are wearing it. Certainly increases the bionic leg priority which (amusingly) wasn't super high on my list for general pawn use.
Also makes me particularly glad that I'd already invested in lots of dogs for animal hauling.
Unfortunately the "This armor is really reducing my total productivity but it's too fiddly to put it on when raids happen" feeling isn't super pleasant. Particularly because it's downright dangerous for anyone who's a reasonable distance from your base.
I think in terms of game balance it's fine, armor is absolutely worth using.
I just feels bad - If the experience of switching equipment was a bit smoother it might be a different story, a sort of " Press this to force everyone to switch to this preset loadout " function would almost certainly change my mind about it overall. Even with the significant time required to equip it.
^Edit:It's worth noting that you can to some extent do this with the loadout system, unfortunately it requires you to set each colonist individually and it's not always a colonist's first priority to don new attire. It's obviously time consuming as well.
It's also not particularly pleasant to have armoured pawns slowing down caravans.
It's really bad to be under-armoured if you're ambushed and just a pain in the ass if you're going to somewhere with a known enemy presence.
The optimal way to play is to remove the armor, wait for it to be stored, find it in the caravan list, add it to the caravan, travel to the location, search through everyone's backpacks and pack animals for the armor, drop it, and manually equip it.
An inconvenience for 1 person, a fiddly mess for 10+. Don't even get me started on my current 34 person colony :P
Drop pods certainly alleviate one half of a trip but.. a round trip typically requires walking home unless you're willing to burn a lot of steel and chemfuel on building transport pods in the landing area.
It's by no means a deal breaker, simply an annoyance.
It is tough to quantify, but it feels like preferred name generation is turned down in 1.0. I have a preferred name I had put in the game that I entered on the menu. In B18 it felt like it spawned about every 2 pawn events (raids, traders, ect). Now it seems like 5+ before it appears again.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
They are a bit too tanky I feel. When you have 6 guys with LMGs spraying one of them down, starting from about half LMG max range, and they still get to you and get a hit or two off...
That and I keep getting drop raids of all of the same type of... (is there a term for 'scyther+lancer'? Droid? I'm gonna call them droids until someone comes up with something better) Not sure if thats intended or not. I would think there should be a mix.
On the whole I really like the droid changes, Lancers are weak to melee, and Scythers are weak to range, but neither completely fall over when faced with their weakness.
Last 5 or so raids I had there have been no survivors even if I beat them down in melee without bleeding them.
At 5 pawns on rough. I got like 3 of those "refugee is running" alerts that I declined cause I don't letting in complete strangers I know nothing about. I ended up almost losing 2 pawns saving one of those injured pawns on the world map. I should of stayed on the land I found her and healed her there while collecting food but I thought I had enough food for the 3 of them to get back not knowing it would take ages cause of injury.
Anyways I am at 5 pawns 160 days in on rough Cass Naked brutality. I lost 2 so far. Seems a lot lower than before when I would have prisoners I would take time to either convert or sell or release for relations. Now I get 0 prisoners in 5 raids, I feel bad I wasted steel on making my prison. A single pawn I got was from a raid and it was one of the ones who died (he was missing an arm cause I had to cut it to save him from infection when he was a prisoner, and too bad I got an archo tech arm now).
Also steel is kinda rare, maybe buff Steel Slag Chunks to 15 or something? I think that would make a big difference I haven't smelted any yet but I got about 50 slag chunks so far. Only 500 steel for the effort I took to haul them all to my electric smelter I finally built (cause low on components). I was planning to research up component manufacturing and make components but wow that's a lot of research points. Good thing I am not a tribe like I usually like to play.
Also love how boomalopes drop chem fuel. I got one from event and was getting chem fuel from thin air and realized the new mechanic. Now I love taming and getting boomalopes. Free energy.
Also to everyone talking about bear stuff I made full bear / heavy fur / Rhino skin for my dudes now to see if it's good. I got flak researched but not enough resources to make them. I got simple helmets for everyone tho. I easily have enough leather to deck them out in all that and can easily 5 man down a rhino or bear. I even had 2 manhunter polar bears come and I have a fully trained pet bear :) No idea what drops heavy fur but I imagine it's defense is as good as bear I think.
Can someone explain to me the difference between the hats and the difference between jackets, dusters, and parkas?
Are jackets for cold weather, dusters for warm, and parkas both or something? That's what I always thought I assume the jackets and dusters are stronger defense cause specialized. I never bothered to press i ingame tho and read and still wont.
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/945077059924882783/A42AF8CB6B923BFB53CB00D829C8F5800748E4CE/)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/945077059924882659/FAC6E1B8BED4FA92F01DB2F56C30738B3B42BAE8/)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/945077059924886768/665D8D1E3EAE2E094E2BD2FCC237502982C03029/)
Hey all,
Found the 1.0 build on steam and started playing. Excellent, excellent. Two quick pieces snagged my attention so far.
1. I have a healing room, and wounded dogs. In the room is a small stockpile of kibble. When feeding the wounded dogs, my healer runs all of the way across the base to grab kibble from the freezer rather than picking it up from 4 spaces away. This happens every time.
2. The romance dialog is recorded in the social tab for both characters, but in one dialog, there is an error in the text. In this game, Iselle is married to David, but MJ is trying to get some at a party even with David standing right there. So rude, but not the issue. The text error is in Eselle's dialog, it notes that "MJ courted MJ". The text in MJ's dialog is correct, "MJ courted Iselle".
And just a note, there has clearly been significant effort making these dialogs entertaining. Hilarious. David and Iselle clearly have a fine time between the sheets, at least so the dialog indicates.
[attachment deleted due to age]
To everyone complaining about a lack of steel, just start on mountains with caves and there will be lots of steel veins you can see. You can always move colonies later and now there are so many things you can uninstall and move with you it's not even hard.
So all this talk about armor made me realise something:
The art for the simple helmet and the advanced helmet are waaaaay too similar.
Whereas you can very much tell the difference between a flak vest to a flak jacket, or a simple helmet to a power armor helmet, you can't say the same with the simple and advanced helmets.
Also, as others have noted, the sides and back of plate armor looks funky. Needs a rework.
I have had 3 experiences with Scythers so far:
1st experience, ship part landed in a marsh. Had 4 people armed with 2 lmgs, a bolt action and a pump shotgun. Two sycthers spawned with other mechanoids I can't recall. The two sycthers didn't do too well in the marsh.
2nd experience, ship part lands near entrance of my base. Sent one pawn with a sniper rifle to bait them out, had two pawns wait by the bunker by the entrance. 2 sycthers spawned, my only experience with their speed was in the aformentioned marsh and them wandering now. Since the Sycthers weren't engaging the sniper, I sent the two other pawns closer to try and help. The two Sycthers almost immediately engaged with the two pawns, me underestimating their speed. Luckly I had an attack cougar on standby to slow the Sycthers down (godspeed, magnificent bastard.). Sycthers where fine to deal with after some space was put inbetween.
3rd experience, crashed ship and Tribal raid at the same time, a self solving problem. Sent someone to shoot the ship part, one Sycther and one Lancer. Since the tribals attacked from two angles, it was 6 v 2 between mechs and tribals. Tribals had mostly recurves and shortbows. The Lancer took down 3, but the Sycther only downed one before being executed by the volley of arrows (and even then the one they downed was moving towards them). The tribals won against the mechs, but they were easy enough to clean up afterwards.
In my experience, the Sycther has so far been the least threatening of the trio. The Lancer's ability to destroy any pawn on a whim and the Centipedes ability make my bullets feel like pebbles make these two fights less preferable to a Sycther. Although, I will mention that I have only ever experienced no more than 2 Sycthers at once, and by the time I encounted them I had a decent armoury (LMGs, Assualt Rifles, a cheeky pump shotgun for the sappers.) I could definetly see the hilarity when I have to ditch my bunker from Sycthers only to be mown down by the rest of the Mechanoids.
"Can someone explain to me the difference between the hats and the difference between jackets, dusters, and parkas?"
Not sure about hats since I consider armor to be a bigger consideration for headgear.
Basically parkas are for cold weather and dusters are for hot or mildly cold weather, and jackets just kind of suck. Dusters are also generally really good armor due to the coverage.
Also, you've convinced me to give caves a shot, they solve so many mountainous issues I hate (years getting initial setup, mining for steel causing area revealed, etc)
There's a few things I've learned in my tests that kinda show my mountain fort was pretty much doomed in the long run anyways: turns out quality has a crazy difference in effectiveness vs bugs in melee, and deadfalls don't do enough damage to megaspiders, so without the usual cheesy tricks I was going to be doomed to fail since my crafter kinda sucked. Additionally, poor infrastructure just utterly kills your sanity in mountains these days due to the high rate of outdoors needs increase, and I was just going to personally going insane dealing with it since I moved in too early.
Few suggestions about caravans.
1. Is it possible to add some kind of filter to show/hide some categories? A lot of corpses or tainted apparels on list is messy.
2. Need one more info coloumn to show sick peoples in caravan preparation menu.
3. Rewards mostly ok, but sometimes they are very strange - offer 2x2 legendary plasteel table for clearing 40+ raiders, or excellent uranium long sword for same 40+ for colony with almost 1 mil wealth.... sigh.
PS About scythers - looks balanced. Manageable if you prepared and deadly if they can caught shooters.
PPS Damn this nerf to armor. Speed debuff will lead to avoiding its usage and to reviving turret killboxes practice, because i dont want to fight with unprotected pawns and at the same time dont want to work while crawling. Im ok with paying maintenace price(detorriating even at peace time), im ok to play w/o cowboy hat buff, but this speed debuff is awful.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on July 08, 2018, 10:42:57 AM
"Can someone explain to me the difference between the hats and the difference between jackets, dusters, and parkas?"
Not sure about hats since I consider armor to be a bigger consideration for headgear.
Basically parkas are for cold weather and dusters are for hot or mildly cold weather, and jackets just kind of suck. Dusters are also generally really good armor due to the coverage.
Also, you've convinced me to give caves a shot, they solve so many mountainous issues I hate (years getting initial setup, mining for steel causing area revealed, etc)
There's a few things I've learned in my tests that kinda show my mountain fort was pretty much doomed in the long run anyways: turns out quality has a crazy difference in effectiveness vs bugs in melee, and deadfalls don't do enough damage to megaspiders, so without the usual cheesy tricks I was going to be doomed to fail since my crafter kinda sucked. Additionally, poor infrastructure just utterly kills your sanity in mountains these days due to the high rate of outdoors needs increase, and I was just going to personally going insane dealing with it since I moved in too early.
One of my colonists wandered into the caves on a drug binge and was downed (and died) and the other 3 with revolvers (2 excellent and 1 good, all from raiders) managed to kill the 4 mega's by taking them 1 by 1 (I did take some damage tho). I haven't had any infestations yet so we will see how that goes when it happens.
The cramped indoors thing is annoying for sure.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:28:17 PMQuote from: XeoNovaDan on July 07, 2018, 07:14:13 PM
.......flak jacket definitely needs a buff because right now, a bearskin duster is decisively the better piece of clothing to go for. Hope this is useful, and if there's any more of this sort of testing you particularly to see the results for!
This seems to be working fine. The thing is, bearskin is a lot harder to come by than flak jacket ingredients. Bearskin is a specifically "elite" leather type, so it's supposed to give great stats. IIRC it also does better in cold than flak.
You can mass produce flak because you can mass produce steel, cloth, and components. But it's hard to mass produce bearskin because farming bears is difficult and slow.
But scarcity shouldn't deem something's value. Chinchilla pelts are arguably very rare compared to steel, but that doesn't mean they should produce bullet-stopping armour because of that rarity.
The whole idea behind flak jackets being what they are, and requiring steel, is that steel could've been used in other necessary production. It could've been used to fix the defensive walls, or build a gun for the new recruit, or build a much needed generator. You make production compromises with flak jackets, power armour, high-end weapons knowing you're taking a gamble with your steel.
Bearskin and Chinchilla skin are rare, but that doesn't mean they're flatly valuable. Plus, from a player-clarity perspective, how many players do you think are going to assume 'bearskin jacket' is better in combat than 'flak jacket'? It's confusing.
If I can be blunt, I feel like this decision, and armours not hindering stats, and some quality weapons not impacting damage, is removing a lot of the sacrifice and compromise you need to make when taking production routes in the game. It's feeling a lot clearer scaled, and less give-and-take, sacrifice-and-gain when deciding what to wear, what to build, and what to work towards.
(1) while the game get to right direction, find balance to all game aspect and how to play for every players
i feel overwhelm with many type of skin/leather in this game, its too hard to compare the variation of skin
unless i open wikipedia or guides out there, i know the game have deep crafting table
but this is bad for new- or 100ish hours player
i hope there a tier or category for each skin/leather present in the game
like light - medium - heavy leather, so player can differ
which one best for heat / winter season ?
which one good for speed and small protection ?
which one good for protection?
i hope there more information in game about every types of leather
or makes every types have pros or cons so there no best in slot leather/skin clothing
(2) another suggestion, maybe add another event which is more fit for early - mid or endgame
its getting stale same stuff happen every x days and its just become chore when the story teller just adding number for every same encounter. Most community here gladly giving idea what event is going to add good for this game
(3) about caravan stuff, well i know developer still working on in, so dont worry about my rant. i dont know how other ppl play it, but for me i just ignore all the quest outside my home base area. its not worth the risk, and even the reward is very good i dont think we can finish the mission without losing limbs. If dev can balance this later, i hope there is incentive to go out there doing Caravan quest, not sitting around in base , waiting wealth /colonist/turret skyrocket. since caravan is the best way make new story for this game, we should go out and scavenge stuff out there. Probably every biome have unique Resource , forcing player to get resource on different area/biome
my animals keep triggering IED traps now, what's up? First a llama died but who cares about that, it probably had dementia anyway. But then a cat blew up, there's no good reasoning for this one :(
Request for 1.0 can you please add some buttons on workshop bills page for drop on ground or take to stockpile. Kinda annoying you need to go into details page which also pauses
Tbh I really liked damage being affected by all qualities.
I'm all for more stats increasing or decreasing depending on item quality, it gave more depth to creator's skills, instead of just making crafting shorter and giving a bit more accuracy.
Quote from: Tynan on July 07, 2018, 09:37:50 PM
Seeking other feedback on the scythers, if anyone has some experience. Too easy? Too hard? Just right?
Scyther's seem pretty good so far, they are really deadly, sometimes chopping off body parts in the first hit... It would be really mean to give some variant of them body shields wouldn't it though? =P
There should probably be a filter or tracker for how much work was put into a crafted item while under the influence of inspiration. I was making a set of plate armor, but ran out of wood to refuel the smithy with only ~50 work left.
After I got some wood, the crafter got inspired, finished and produced a set of masterwork plate armor.
The crafter's skill is 11, and the last two sets she made were of normal quality.
I can definitely see an exploit where players halt the crafting process with less than 20 work remaining and just wait for the crafter to get inspiration before finishing it.
Maybe inspiration should only count for work that is at most 50% complete or less?
Quote from: erdrik on July 08, 2018, 12:44:10 PM
There should probably be a filter or tracker for how much work was put into a crafted item while under the influence of inspiration. I was making a set of plate armor, but ran out of wood to refuel the smithy with only ~50 work left.
After I got some wood, the crafter got inspired, finished and produced a set of masterwork plate armor.
The crafter's skill is 11, and the last two sets she made were of normal quality.
I can definitely see an exploit where players halt the crafting process with less than 20 work remaining and just wait for the crafter to get inspiration before finishing it.
Maybe inspiration should only count for work that is at most 50% complete or less?
I thought as soon as you built/crafted/operated/etc. on something the inspiration ends?
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 08, 2018, 12:37:22 PM
Request for 1.0 can you please add some buttons on workshop bills page for drop on ground or take to stockpile. Kinda annoying you need to go into details page which also pauses
I agree, maybe add two small buttons above/left of the amount with symbols for this purpose.
Mockup:
(https://i.imgur.com/roBGueX.png)
If you want the item to go to a specific stockpile you have to use details, but since this functionality is probably rarely used that's fine. Dropping on floor on the other hand is something I use A LOT.
Encountered an odd thing while crafting with 2 inspired pawns, I had two of them working from a fabrication bench, one started making power armor and mid way through his crafting i had another inspired pawn start production on a power helmet, the guy working on the power helmet finished his job first and when done both pawns that were working from that bench's jobs inspiration were gone when only one finished his job, think this might be a bug?
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 08, 2018, 12:53:56 PM
...
I thought as soon as you built/crafted/operated/etc. on something the inspiration ends?
It does. Thats why you halt the crafting
before the item is built. Losing inspiration once it is built doesn't prevent that you just turned a mostly normal piece of unfinished project into a masterwork for only 10 or 20 work.
(especially egregious for projects like plate armor which is ~600 work to complete)
That way you have a store of unfinished crafting projects just waiting for a crafter to get inspiration.
As soon as the crafter gets inspiration, finish one and BAM! get a masterwork/legendary.
Quote from: Suspicious on July 08, 2018, 10:34:45 AM
I could definetly see the hilarity when I have to ditch my bunker from Sycthers only to be mown down by the rest of the Mechanoids.
I spoke too soon, next encounter this exactly happened. Yeah they seem like very good flushers. Guess I just got lucky with my first few encounters of downing them quickly.
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 08, 2018, 12:37:22 PM
Request for 1.0 can you please add some buttons on workshop bills page for drop on ground or take to stockpile. Kinda annoying you need to go into details page which also pauses
yes please, there's an option for making drop on ground default with the mod better workbench management. I see no reason not to have this at our disposal, as well as the rest of the qol things that mod brings.
In previous versions of the game, melee has been a decidedly poor choice and something that only happens when things have already gone wrong.
That's less so the case now, and it appears at least that this is intentional. I'm all for it, honestly, but it does make one thing a bit rougher: Friendly fire. Is it at all possible to get a per-pawn toggle to simply not fire into melee (Technically: So the AI won't choose targets that are currently engaged in melee) unless specifically told to target them. Basically, I'm looking for a way to have my pawns stop picking automatically targets in melee when their original target dies.
Too often I only catch this after someone has firing their bolt action rifle into my melee pawn's head.
Just a simple "It's too dangerous, I can't get a good shot!" toggle, so my pawns don't default to murdering my poor melee guys who already have things pretty rough. Obviously, this won't end FF from "I ran into the line of fire" or FF from deliberately firing into melee, but it'd go a long way to prevent accidental and wholly unnecessary injuries.
Feedback on: Naked Brutality - Cassandra extreme - Temperate forest
Scythers feel pretty balanced and the tactics are actually meaningful when dealing with lancer/scyther combinations. They're pretty fun to fight.
On the subject of weapon balance it always felt underwhelming for charge rifles to have such a short range considering they're supposed to fill the highest tier of the assault weapon role, i'm actually using them now instead of the assault rifles which were vastly more versatile in exchange for a negligible amount damage. They actually feel like the high end weapons they're supposed to be.
Quote from: Wintersdark on July 08, 2018, 02:31:15 PM
...per-pawn toggle to simply not fire into melee (Technically: So the AI won't choose targets that are currently engaged in melee) unless specifically told to target them. ...
^ Im all for this.
I mean I manually do it myself anyway, but I would love for it to be a toggle so the AI target picking can do it on its own.
A fire in the middle of your indoor base is pretty game ending. Pawns can't stop it cause they get burned by super heated air.
It's amazing how how small fire in a very large open indoor air turns the entire room into 250 degrees. which in turns lights everything up in it.
And all my pawns dropped to the ground almost instantly when they tried to extinguish the fire.
And when finally the steel door fails to the fire, the entire area instantly becomes -4 degrees yet the fire rages on and all my pawns are dead.
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 08, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
And when finally the steel door fails to the fire, the entire area instantly becomes -4 degrees yet the fire rages on and all my pawns are dead.
And what do we learn? Destroy door/wall. Or unroof a nearby room and then destroy door/wall.
There are no backdrafts in Rimworld so abuse that.
So here's what my experimenting brought. I was once again going everywhere mineral scanner found me something juicy.
Randy, Extreme, no weapons equipped, 6 colonists, 6 pistols (left at home)
Wealth: ~30k
I sent out 3 people, 10 times. Out of 10 times, i was only attacked twice by a guy with a poor pistol and a normal revolver, forced both into melee before they could react and beat them down. Early game such events are quite doable. I am glad to see it won't be a 50\50 wipe\live early game to send someone out.
Randy, Extreme, 10 guys, 6 equipped with pistols, sending out 4 of 10.
Wealth: ~50k.
9 free lumps, 1 lump - outpost (2 guys, 2 turrets, 1 mortar). Once again, nothing nearly impossible, though with only pistols i decided to ditch the turrets.
Randy, Extreme, 10 guys, 6 equipped with pistols, smgs and a shotgun, flak vests and flak pants on 6 of them. Sending out 5 of 10.
1 ambush - 1 scyther. Dealt with.
1 outpost: 1 turret, 5 guys with a club, molotovs, a gladius, a grenade pack and a revolver. One with a flak vest. Dealt with.
Rest are free lumps without dangers.
Moving on - Randy Extreme, 20 people, 220k-ish wealth. Most people have flak vests and pistols, shotties, smgs. Half armed with assault rifles. Caravan armored with plate armor and advanced helmets. Sending out 6 out of 20.
First ambush - 13 domestic pigs... Erm. Ok, yeah, thats the kind of hilariousness i'd expect from Rimworld and thats what i like it for. Bundled up in a tight formation and dealt with them. One managed to bite my guy twice through a normal steel plate armor. Unlucky random i guess.
Second ambush - 2 lancers and 1 scyther closing in from all sides. And of course Lancers easily downed one of my people with 2 shots. Scyther circled me and managed to close in, even though severely injured and downed one more with two cuts. Dealth with them, patched up, moved along.
Third ambush - 7 people, 1 turret. Couple machine pistols, molotovs, shottie, pistol, incendiary launcher. Surprisingly turned into quite long slugfest, took quite a few shots through armor (6-7 shots on one guys, 2 on another and a couple more bruises). Circled the turret, deconstructed solar generator - done. Quite doable i must say.
Fourth ambush - 3 turrets, one guy with an assault rifle in power armor and advanced helm and even go juice. Kitted out little bugger. Forced into melee and dealt with, followed by taking out solar generators and disabling turrets via assault rifle superior reach. The drugged bastard did manage to bite someone's pinky off. How rude.
So for now here are my thoughts - long range mineral scanner is definitely worth having now on any difficulty. Its feels really good to be able to send a smallish caravan of 5-6 people both early and late game and don't fear facing a whole army. I like small scale skirmishes much more, than a huge crowd slaughtering raids turn into late game. It feels way more interesting to command small team. Way more tactical. I however foresee hardcore fans disliking the balance on extreme, since it won't just wipe you, if you don't manage to run immediately, or don't have superior equipment, allowing you to suffer through an epic fight with half you people killed, but still successful. So you might wanna make Extreme difficulty slightly harsher for them. Currently long range scanner events are definitely doable without losses, if you take enough meds with you and make proper use of game's defensive equipment.
One more thing of note however, is how i felt about rewards long range scanner gave me. Plasteel and uranium lumps were... thinner than i thought. Especially when compared to nicely fat lumps of compacted machinery and silver. Uranium definitely spawns more often but it could use a solid boost to lump size. Gold and jade being currency items and thus small count - their lump felt downright insulting. 10 tiles of gold ore to mine? Meh. I strongly suggest making rewards of such quests also scale with your wealth and time spent playing, since threats do so - it d be fair if the payoff could scale too. That d also help avoiding sharp wealth spikes due to resources mined or legendary items suddnely dropping on your head. So the more wealth you have and longer you play - the richer the lumps, more better quality item rewards and etc. Also I once again propose adding big steel lumps (at least as big as silver ones) to the list of resources scanner can find. That alone will make worth having in any colony.
Next time, will be doing extreme wealth level testing and also road ambushes and other types of world quests.
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 08, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
A fire in the middle of your indoor base is pretty game ending. Pawns can't stop it cause they get burned by super heated air.
It's amazing how how small fire in a very large open indoor air turns the entire room into 250 degrees. which in turns lights everything up in it.
And all my pawns dropped to the ground almost instantly when they tried to extinguish the fire.
And when finally the steel door fails to the fire, the entire area instantly becomes -4 degrees yet the fire rages on and all my pawns are dead.
Deroof while fighting it.
Hold open doors.
Foam Poppers.
Some notes on NB starts:
A cooking skill of 2 or less is very punishing (this is based on three different attempts with low cooking skill). My pawns spend much of their time with food poisoning. Another factor is that dirt and trash is often hard to spot, making it easy to accidentally cook in a dirty kitchen (improve visibility of dirt and trash, or add hotkey to highlight cleanliness reducing things).It feels like eating raw food is significantly safer than food cooked by an unskilled cook.
A crafting skill of less than 2 is a big disadvantage because it means that a short bow cannot be crafted. The best way to raise crafting skill is to build wooden clubs. The resource cost of raising crafting skill from 1 to 2 in this way is large though. The cost is still significant with the "build until 1 work left, then cancel" trick. A bow is so important because it enables hunting and defending from raids without risking too many significant wounds.
Medical skill is also very important (but noticably less so after scratches are less likely to get infected).
A good portion of the difficulty of NB can be avoided by simply generating pawns until you get one that has good skills in all important areas. In general I dislike that pawns can range from very powerful (good traits, good health, highly skilled and passionate in several important skill) to what is best described "useless and a liability". I feel that what is desperately needed is pawn "power" following a normal distribution so that most pawns are average and good enough to be worthwhile taking, while some are bad and good, and very few are terrible or Godlike.
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 08, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
A fire in the middle of your indoor base is pretty game ending. Pawns can't stop it cause they get burned by super heated air.
It's amazing how how small fire in a very large open indoor air turns the entire room into 250 degrees. which in turns lights everything up in it.
And all my pawns dropped to the ground almost instantly when they tried to extinguish the fire.
And when finally the steel door fails to the fire, the entire area instantly becomes -4 degrees yet the fire rages on and all my pawns are dead.
250C? Brrr. Makes me want to wear a parka.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Geo Thermo requires high tech bench but on the tech screen shows as it only needs electricity.
Makes no sense... you need Microelectronics for high tech table...
Quote from: dearmad on July 08, 2018, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 08, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
A fire in the middle of your indoor base is pretty game ending. Pawns can't stop it cause they get burned by super heated air.
It's amazing how how small fire in a very large open indoor air turns the entire room into 250 degrees. which in turns lights everything up in it.
And all my pawns dropped to the ground almost instantly when they tried to extinguish the fire.
And when finally the steel door fails to the fire, the entire area instantly becomes -4 degrees yet the fire rages on and all my pawns are dead.
Deroof while fighting it.
Hold open doors.
Foam Poppers.
Can't deroof a mountain.
Holding open doors does nothing for temperature.
Didn't research the stupid foam yet :(((
A slightly odd thing occurred to me the first time this playthrough. I never realized before that the do until and the look everywhere on my art table was counting installed pieces. I thought it was only looking in stockpiles, but it can only look in specific stockpiles.
Well living under a mountain has its downsides. You ever let something burn - you die horribly.
PleaseBro: If you had a direct door to the outside (as suggested by your comment about one door being removed dropping the temp to -4) then it's likely there were sections you could deroof.
Alternately, you could have just deconstructed the door yourself; Honestly seems safer than trying to run around in a burning room removing sections of thin roof.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 08, 2018, 03:40:24 PM
PleaseBro: If you had a direct door to the outside (as suggested by your comment about one door being removed dropping the temp to -4) then it's likely there were sections you could deroof.
Alternately, you could have just deconstructed the door yourself; Honestly seems safer than trying to run around in a burning room removing sections of thin roof.
Yea but the room was probably something like 400 square tiles large and the fire was in a tiny little part of it and the entire place turned into 250 oven of hell that killed all my pawns.
Some feedback as desired
"Split" Mountain Base, Cassandra Hard, 40/60, Mountainous - Started around 1.020
(Current) Thoughts, not in a particular order
- hauling to transport pod without thought (if 10 steel needs to be hauled and the nearest stack only has 8 steel, they run multiple times)
- animals hauling becomes a bit annoying since they only reserve one stack at a time (no matter how small, i.e. a pile of 3 granite blocks from deconstructing a wall)
- hauling to building can be a bit annoying, especially when it gets intercepted (i.e. predator hunts, colonist defends (drops the granite blocks), goes back to the base to get new blocks and completely disregards the ones lying next to him - might be related to the fact that she can only carry 70, but "wants" to carry a stack of 75 to the building
- Transport pod costs reduced? I remember them higher than 70/1 for the launcher, 60/1 for the pod - Pods seem overpowered
- Armor Revamp = Great for Power armor, Flak does not seem worth it on the long run, means few alternatives if you want to avoid a "massive" movement debuff
- Changes to Caravaning - Great (although I stopped using them a lot after Transport Pods became avaiable)
- Dev Console Notification when sending transport pod from outpost / non-base to base "Tried to get relation between faction Minoca and itself."
- Glitterworld Medicine seems a lot cheaper? (~60 vs ~130 before)
- "Todo." text when predators target colonists
- Overall Caravan/ Event Frequency okay, too low in mid- to late game if you focus on those events
- Nerf to Mortar accuracy even over "short" (~50) distances makes them unreasonable to use, they seem too weak to be of any importance (neither me nor Sieges / enemy camps ever "hit" a mortar shot in nearly 5 years, and that includes collaterals)
- Stopping power is a nice change, but seems slightly overpowered if you stack chain shotguns (stopping power 3) in a 5-wide corridor - the melees in front don't get any meat, everything dies to the shotgun wall behind them
- caravan requests for exquisite items (which you got from rewards yourself) can be slightly annoying (in my case Antigrain Warheads, 2nd time some colony asks for them in exchange for some archotech)
- maybe allow certain techs (i.e. Mortars, Pod Launchers) as quest rewards
- reputation hits for caravan requests are a two-sided knife - (1) your silver goes up quicker if you have enough production since you don't need to compensate those 700 or 1100 calling costs, if your production is low, you need to think twice about caravaning
- didn't have allies help out in ~4.5 years so far (but it hasn't been super close yet either)
- can't say too much about the turret changes
-> didn't work with sniper turrets so far (probably would if you could move those without deconstructing, same for autocannon turrets)
-> Autocannon turrets definitely need smaller turrets to secure the "too close" perimeter, preferably ones that do not have to engage anything else - then they work well, especially considering a mountain layout
- stacked indoor mood debuffs can become very annoying, but it highly depends on base layout, the three-divided version (main, crafting + storage, hospital + med/bionic storage) doesn't run into many problems (besides the artists & possible indoor crafters
- quality distribution seems fine, inspirations happen often enough (and masterwork still occurs often enough for Lv19 / 20) - inspirations showing in colonist overview help a LOT, thanks for that
- Wildlife Tab - missing the "manhunter" icon from the mod, but I can understand it not being included for balancing purposes, dislike the fact that insects are not listed (searching for a megascarab that is running wild is annoying) - although: understandable for balancing purposes
(dragging the hunt / tame selections are great features)
- Caravan food preview seems wonky, had multiple times where the calculation was off by multiple days (weeks) in both directions
- caravan item preview is nice, pod launcher content preview could use some love - maybe add the possibility to update it after the initial loading, since stuff can remain unloaded if the selected stack gets merged (had it happen 2 or 3 times)
- raiders dropping right into your base apparently hit a bunch of overhead mountain while crashing down (overhead mountain still stands), rendering two of the raiders trapped inside the base between natural stone walls and fallen rock, not sure if that should be the way to go... probably set a minimum distance of drop pods to overhead mountain tiles to avoid such bullshit
Regarding a couple comments above:
- Uranium Lump from LRMS seemed okay to me, ~20 blocks of ore
- Scyther seemed fine, didn't notice too much of a difference between b18 and 1.0 (besides the scyther classes and reskins, EMP or Shotgun walls are still the way to go)
Base Layout for some understanding:
(https://i.imgur.com/6e1r2dl.jpg)
- "main" resource of early income was a massive field of corn (you can see the storage on the center left)
- uncovered paths in the mountain on the left are power lines to geothermals - avoids fire and unnecessary destruction unless you have 8 or 9 zzzt's within the same 3 spots
- regarding the very last point with the drop pod raid - the guys dropped between Rec Room, corn storage & room below
Final words:
Thanks to Soviet & Alasdair for getting me into this game & my usual Base layouts are planned at the very start of a colony (sometimes with fog disabled to get more information on where to put what) and can take several hours :D
I find it quite sad, that when colonist is fed up with me and decides to leave my colony, refuses my polite arrest invitation, gets beaten down by his former friends, I can only 'Rescue' him (and hope for him rejoining) and can not arrest/capture him (that was the point of beating him down).
*edit*
As i see 'Wild' man can be hunted and tamed like animals, yet their right click menu stays kind-of-human ?
Love the mechanic of Taming back colonists
I would say that any downed-yet-alive pawn should be able to arrest (friend/ally/neutral/visitor/enemy) of course with repercussions.
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 08, 2018, 04:14:18 PMYea but the room was probably something like 400 square tiles large and the fire was in a tiny little part of it and the entire place turned into 250 oven of hell that killed all my pawns.
Does seem like it might be a bit overtuned, then. Any chance you have a screenshot? Of course, removing a door turning an entire area "outdoors" and therefore ignoring dozens of fires is also a bit overtuned, so maybe it kinda balances it out.
Quote from: gadjung on July 08, 2018, 04:31:50 PMI would say that any downed-yet-alive pawn should be able to arrest (friend/ally/neutral/visitor/enemy) of course with repercussions.
I believe you can? You just have to draft your pawn to arrest them; I frequently have minor problems with accidentally telling a pawn to arrest another pawn when I'm just trying to place them in a specific place near the other pawn.
Randy extreme. Plasteel plate armor, normal quality, and a plasteel gladius normal quality, 10 melee skill, the pawn managed to down a scyther with charge lance on his own, with only some bruises as a result.
I like this new system. Before, even with armor, small wounds were inevitable in melee, which often ended up infected if not at base. Now melee warfare is much more viable and it pays off to use expensive and rare materials to craft armor.
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Another situation: a map with caves and dormant hives. When raiders appear (not sappers), they attack my double walls. When they destroy an outer wall block, some leave my fortress and go attack the insects in the caves, rather than to keep attacking the walls.
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Kinda an exploit: If the walls of an ancient shrine are claimed, raiders will go and attack it, liberating the mechanoids and bringing forth their doom, and the doom of the next 3-4 raids. In the end you get off your back some raids, and get someone else to kill the mechanoids for you. Maybe making shrine walls unclaimable would avoid this situation, though its up to the player to do it or not in the end.
Oh. Just laugh a lot. Ongoing siege. Allies come to help(first time in 6 years). A lot of casualities from allied and pirate sides. Also some downed pawns. Manage to rescue 2 allied pawns from spreading fire, bring them to hospital, patch. And right after this passing travelers rush in my hospital, with yells about rescueing innocents, and steal poor downed dudes from sterile hospital into wilderness. That was funny. ;D
Hey I really really like all the changes for 1.0 It's coming up well unfortunately there is a major bug in the game and that's the pshychite tea which I cannot craft on the crafting spot or the drug bench. (Yes, I've researched it)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Also, want to complain about animal farms. In my case its a ~90 hens atm.
1. Gathering eggs take too much hauling time if you try to feed hens by wild grass. In such case eggs scattered across big area and haulers just bring them 1 by 1 entire day. Also part of eggs is detorriate due to weather/outdoors completely. So its not an option.
2. Keeping hens at barn. Eggs right near freezer/kitchen, haulers happy. But here is another problem. Need to feed them "manually", and, damn, they are eat so much. 6 haygrass greenhouses just for this. While 3 greenhouses with corn just provide enough nutrition for 34 pawns. And even now i cant feed colony with fine meal w/o hunt. Seems like need twice more hens than i have now.
3. Random illness. Pretty frequent, and hit a big part of population. Additional wasted pawn time. Also handlers still feed ill animals with their stored fine meals and waste a lot of nutrition too. While kibble just under feets.
Resolution: still not worth efforts. Its much easier just obtain meat part of dishes via hunt or manhunters packs.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Awe on July 08, 2018, 07:10:43 PM
Also, want to complain about animal farms. In my case its a ~90 hens atm.
1. Gathering eggs take too much hauling time if you try to feed hens by wild grass. In such case eggs scattered across big area and haulers just bring them 1 by 1 entire day. Also part of eggs is detorriate due to weather/outdoors completely. So its not an option.
2. Keeping hens at barn. Eggs right near freezer/kitchen, haulers happy. But here is another problem. Need to feed them "manually", and, damn, they are eat so much. 6 haygrass greenhouses just for this. While 3 greenhouses with corn just provide enough nutrition for 34 pawns. And even now i cant feed colony with fine meal w/o hunt. Seems like need twice more hens than i have now.
3. Random illness. Pretty frequent, and hit a big part of population. Additional wasted pawn time. Also handlers still feed ill animals with their stored fine meals and waste a lot of nutrition too. While kibble just under feets.
Resolution: still not worth efforts. Its much easier just obtain meat part of dishes via hunt or manhunters packs.
I'm just so impressed you gave your chickens art!
Ah, that sapper logic... They just made a shortcut through walls around geothermal totally ignoring the geothermal itself.
Next day after split sapper raid - infestation. 15 nests. Bugs are okay (two wargs got their tails shot off), but destroying hives takes forever. Also, it is very easy to miss a bug since they don't have labels.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Hey I think I found bugs. Was growing corn and noticed that it was taking forever. I wrote down these measurements for corn growth % over time. Just took the rough average of a large field at the start of the recorded day.
Planted in the fall, not sure exactly when
36% 7th summer
60% 13th summer - 24% in 6
69% 15th summer - 10% in 2
73% 1st fall - 4% in one day
86% 4th fall - 13% in 3 days
91% 5th fall - 5% in one day
Had to cut early b/c cold snap came in and end of growing period in 1 day. I haven't finished a full growth corn crop on this map yet.
It seems like corn is on a 25 day growing period atm, but if I'm not mistaken the info says 11. This is all taken in regular 100% fertility soil in boreal forest with no weather modifiers before the final cold snap.
I'm not sure if other plants were behaving the same way.
Edit: Ok so I guess I never paid close enough attention. Nevermind about growing times
Also going to take this time to post up some bugs/buggish things I snipped but didn't want to make a post over. Mostly from 30/60 day boreal hard but some from all year tropical extreme. Cassandra both cases.
->I noticed pulse charge munitions no longer requires gun tech
https://imgur.com/a/vz8yJVI (https://imgur.com/a/vz8yJVI)
Album here for reference pictures
1 - Lamp on w/o power connection, remained when unpaused
2 - Phantom conduits, mentioned earlier. Used to be a windmill there
3 - Really stupid sappers, not pictured is Schroeder finishing knocking out a natural stone wall that used to be right in front of him. Idk how you fix this without opening up for exploitation though so..
4 - Healroot seems to be hardy enough to consistently survive very cold winters. However, it also consistently dies during the next growing season. If I plant the healroot too close to winter, it will die from being unharvested before it can be harvested in the next season.
5 - I had a man hunting caribou walk through and trigger three traps but take absolutely no damage. I don't know traps work at random currently but it seems buggy.
6 - No bug
Quote from: rdshea3 on July 08, 2018, 07:49:49 PM
It seems like corn is on a 25 day growing period atm, but if I'm not mistaken the info says 11.
The actual growing period is two times longer than declared since real days have not only day but also the night when plants won't grow. Also, low temperature is also a factor, as well as insolation that depends on altitude (you can notice that on polar bases solar power generators need much more time to go on full power).
Quote from: Nymcom on July 08, 2018, 06:42:52 PM
Hey I really really like all the changes for 1.0 It's coming up well unfortunately there is a major bug in the game and that's the pshychite tea which I cannot craft on the crafting spot or the drug bench. (Yes, I've researched it)
It's in the stove now.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 08, 2018, 08:15:19 PM
Quote from: rdshea3 on July 08, 2018, 07:49:49 PM
It seems like corn is on a 25 day growing period atm, but if I'm not mistaken the info says 11.
The actual growing period is two times longer than declared since real days have not only day but also the night when plants won't grow. Also, low temperature is also a factor, as well as insolation that depends on altitude (you can notice that on polar bases solar power generators need much more time to go on full power).
Gotcha, never noticed that. Does seem a little unclear but makes sense w/ reasoning
Edit: Does 1 day equate to 12 hours 100% growth? That would make sense as to how real time relates to given. Since I think a 12 hour day is only far enough from the poles, and even then there's a ramp up and down every single day.
I noticed that pawns will now do almost anything to avoid buildings under construction. This makes pawn take the long way around, for example when making double doors and the pawn decides to construct the far door first. It also makes it annoying to construct things from a particular side, as drafting and moving to the other side can make them take a huge detour. If the idea is to prevent pawns from having to change path drastically as a wall is completed, I would suggest at least letting them path through doors under construction.
I also noticed some inconsistent behaviour with cancelling vs deconstructing frames under construction. Both are instant, but cancelling returns all resources but deconstruct only some.
Still been having a really tedious time against centipedes. I don't even want to fight scythers or lancers either, but they die instantly to traps so it's less annoying.
Just finished my first complete playthrough of 1.0, so here's my (rather long) feedback (as well as a little play-by-play of the final stage for your enjoyment at the end of the post)
Version: 1.0.1954 - 1.0.1957 no mods
Scenario: Cassandra Hard, Rich Explorer
Map: Standard size, temperate forest, large hills, huge river, growing season year round
Permadeath: No (partially to make sure I can try to reproduce occuring bugs, partially to make sure I actually get to the end)
Play time this run: 1d 2h 16m 33s
Play time in total: 934 hours (since A16 iirc)
Some things I liked:
- the many new ways raiders can enter the map (standard, scattered pods, different directions, ...)
- the new caravan menu.
- bedrolls now have a use for non-tribals (caravans)
- assigning workers to tasks, opportunistic hauling, implementation of QoL mods in general
- the new armor system (more on that below)
- the map seemed to contain all possible kinds of deep drill resources which was not necessarily the case when I played in the past
Some things I think are fair:
- Deep drilling infestations. They never did any real damage to my colony but it posed a nice extra challenge from time to time.
- Rearming turrets as late-game steel sink - I never got to build up huge amounts of steel thanks to that. Don't know if I'm 100% convinced the current state is balanced because I was REALLY hurting for steel in the latter parts of the game (despite deep drills running)
- Animal training decay. I barely noticed it in my run since I had a pawn that was barely good for anything else besides being a dedicated handler.
--- General thoughts ---
The first thing I noticed was how powerful the water mill is. Its production is independent of weather conditions (wind, solar) or resources (wood, chemfuel) - similar to geothermal (which I love), but easier to obtain. Even with the size increase and minimum distance between mills, they provided the majority of my power. It IS map dependent though, I guess. I specifically chose a river map to try them out.
An early sapper raid did not flee but I see that this got fixed.
To make up for the increased raider death chance (= less recruits) I took more chances in rescuing incapacitated refugees (which was a quest type that was plentiful - I think it got reduced/rebalanced a little with the most recent builds?). Seems fine.
Visiting traders: I got my first visit from a trading caravan after 53 days which seems a long time. I did not encounter any non-bulk goods trader until day 155 which was a bit annoying. Did I just get unlucky?
Mental break: Insulting spree - the focus on one "victim" makes it rather easy to draft the victim and micro them away from the breaking person. Not saying it should be harsher, just that it usually doesn't do more than a single insult.
Item quality rework: I don't mind it. I got 3 legendary items (1 double bed, 1 assault rifle, 1 grand sculpture) and a few masterworks thanks to some inspired creativity events. Certainly makes the label fit better.
Romance: Not a single romance happened! I mean, there was a dude and his fiancée that got married, but no new lovers, nothing. Might just have been random chance, but I personally like when relationships develop inside my colony. Not that my colonists didn't try, I did witness hurt feelings due to rebuffs from time to time.
Armor rework: Hell yeah! I didn't think I would like it this much, but it made combat really different from how I was used to it (i.e. range is king, don't use pawns if possible). I picked up 3 pawns with good melee (2 brawlers) early on, outfitted them with flak stuff and went to town whenever I could. Admittedly, in the later stages of the game it became too risky to run them into big groups (probably because I didn't bother with power armor/shield belts at that point) but they were still invaluable in keeping raiders off my ranged pawns.
Ship launch warmup: HOLY SHIT! Did I ever enjoy that. Constant pressure, trying to stave off attack after attack, using up everything in my arsenal. It makes the ship launch meaningful, not just the old "oh I guess I have tons of resources, lets build a ship, why not" (to be fair though, I don't think I've ever played so straight towards the ship launch - might have been different if I had built up a huge wealthy stable colony first)
Also, since you specifically asked for feedback on Scythers: in my opinion they are scary but fair. My (armored) melee pawns were able to go toe-to-toe with them early on, while later in the game superior concentrated firepower prevented them from coming close (most of the time). On a similar note, my brawler pawns totally wrecked Lancers (sometimes even one shotting them right off the bat) which seems strong but fair, since you first have to close the distance. In general, I like the split between Scyther and Lancer - makes for more tactical possibilities, the old Scythers were just too scary to engage in melee)
--- Strategies employed & dealing with raids ---
I built no dedicated killbox nor did I wall in my whole base. Basically, I used the huge river as a "soft wall" and placed 2 autocannon turrets and 2 sniper turrets (when they got added) at the strategic opening. Raiders would path towards the bridge within range of the turrets and get gunned down (or get gunned down while slooowly crawling through the river)
Apropos sniper turret: that thing is viscious, but holy crap do not place friendly pawns in its line of fire - so many shot off limbs (and the occasional insta-death which prompted reloading a save)
I tried to preemptively weaken raids by outranging them, sneaking melee pawns behind them, or drawing them into my turrets.
My base layout also seemed to confuse sappers. Since it wasn't completely walled in, they pathed to the open spot where my turrets were waiting. Not really INTO the turrets but they always targeted a rock formation at the edge of the turret range which meant i could use my pawns to attack them and draw them in. It would have been much easier for them to break the single-width stone wall around my backyard where little protection was posted. But imo sappers are meant to punish killbox/turtle style plays and since I kept my base mainly open (worse against other threats, e.g. manhunter packs) I don't feel bad about them losing their bite against my base - they were still challenging since they didn't just blindly run in like other raid types.
Thankfully I did not get any sieges until the last stage of the game (ship engine powering up). Since I didn't use mortars (decided to use my limited steel resources elsewhere) I was always forced to engage before they set up and my heaviest injuries were obtained during the assault on the first siege team (I used doomsday rocket launchers on the later sieges)
I got a single manhunter event in this run (or maybe two? Don't remember the early game too well) which was really good for me because my base setup wouldn't have handled these too well. The one I rember was 20 panthers but at this point I had enough firepower and my bridge-choke to fend them off.
I only had a few animals of each type (pigs for hauling, boars for added melee capabilities, alpacas for clothing, boomalopes for chemfuel, timber wolves 'cause why not) and since my run only lasted for about 3 years, they never got the chance to multiply like crazy.
--- Quests ---
The item stash rewards seem lucrative. I mainly did them in the early to mid game, later on I got more complacent and risk-averse.
Caravan requests: Didn't do any, mainly because of my rather isolated location on the world map (would not have been impossible, just a bit too inconvenient for my personal tastes). The rewards are tempting though.
Peace talks: Haven't done these in my whole Rimworld "career". At some point, when raids get big I usually capture enough pawns to return some for goodwill. Never felt the need to let my pawns leave the safety of my base for these.
I liked the new "AI core location" quest where you have to pay a friendly faction to get the location. It really made me work towards earning goodwill with them (here buddy, have 200 joints as a gift on top of that trade! It's totally because I like you so much, not because I really really want that core)
--- Nitpicks/Wishlist ---
- I built overhanging roofs around my buildings so colonists don't get wet when moving from building to building in rain. Unfortunately this gives them the "Darkness" debuff which doesn't really make sense to me. A roofed porch is still bright in daylight. Maybe calculate darkness on how many overhanging roof tiles there are (unless it generates unneccesary high CPU load)?
- Medical condition "Waist: Cut Off" doesn't seem to do anything? I imagine if my waist got cut off my legs wouldn't work anymore.
- Trading menu: I would like it if the game remembers which items I had intended to trade when switching from trade to gift mode and back
- Infestation emerging sound is quite loud and keeps playing while paused - even while completely zoomed out (or did that change with the most recent builds?)
- I would love stone bridges, mainly so I don't have to deal with them when they are burning.
- Assigning doctors to medical tasks would be great; e.g. I only want my most skilled doctor to treat plague victims without having to micro them all the time.
- Animals leave the map during heat waves. Seems reasonable, but the repopulation felt really slow.
- "Mad animals: $ANIMAL" notification now redundant, e.g. it says "Mad hares: Hare" or "Mad squirrels: Squirrel"
- When a water mill gets destroyed, its power conduits will still show in the "power grid view" for some time (dunno what it's actually called - you know, when you build a power conduit and all power conduits are highlighted)
_____________________________________________________________
Since I chronicled the events leading up to the ship launch I will include them in my post. Read on if you like, or don't.
T-15d: 19 hardened colonists want to get off this hellhole of a rimworld. The ship is built, the reactor starts to power up. The calm before the storm begins.
T-14d: Siege raid (the first this run): lots of injuries & 3 colonists downed since i dont have mortars and have to storm their position preemptively. Miraculously, no deaths.
T-13d: Toxic Fallout (the first this run as well): are you kidding me? Constant raids incoming and I can't really leave the base? Thankfully my larder is well stocked and my grazers won't die from a little exposure.
T-12d: Mechanoid raid (centipedes, lancers, scythers): My trusty marksman/crafter Crab dies in the firefight but since he was staggeringly ugly, most colonists dont take it too hard ('rival died'). Injuries all around. Thank god for capable doctors and a good supply of medicine.
T-11d: Mechanoid raid (centipedes only): turrets and long range rifles get them done but I'm hurting for steel to rearm my turrets.
T-10: Mechanoid raid: 6 scythers and 1 lancer drop on top of my bedrooms - 2 pigs lost, 2 colonists downed, more injured
T-9d: Sapper raid. This one was reeeaaally nasty (I reloaded a save several times until I finally worked out how to best deal with them). Had to use my only doomsday launcher but salvaged one from them plus a triple rocket launcher. 1 downed colonist.
T-8.3d: Psychic drone (male): Just what I needed. My 4 steel deep drills are running full time to replace the turret barrels. Thankfully they are within my base and roofed (toxic fallout still ongoing)
T-8d: 3-way sapper raid. The comparatively small sizes of the respective groups made this manageable. Still, 3 pigs/boars lost, 1 colonist downed
T-7.3d: most of the remaining pigs have contracted the flu; let's hope I don't need them too badly in the next raid
T-7.2d: toxic fallout has settled - the first positive thing since starting the reactor. I use the brief respite to finally replace one colonists missing kidney (harvested from a downed raider - not the best decision since the mood penalty puts a strain on my colony)
T-7d: Another siege (with 2 related people): 1 colonist downed. 1 doomsday rocket launcher salvaged (used psychic shock lance). Several nasty injuries, but I manage to scare off the raiders before I have to kill the relatives.
T-6.5: First animals wander back on the map. My food stores look very strained. 60 emergency survival meals are still there though.
T-5.9: My greedy drilling finally woke some insects: 1 stray piglet gets killed and my trusty timber wolf Slinker gets his second eye shot out in the crossfire :( poor Slinker. The pigs get to feast on the insect corpses (they've been terribly hungry during the fallout)
T-5.4: An exotic goods trader stops by. I use the opportunity to acquire a psychic shock and psychic insanity lance as well as a bionic leg. Bowman, my finest marksman (equipped with a legendary assault rifle) receives the leg as well as the archotech eye I found earlier. Raiders tremble!
T-5: Mechanoid raid: 6 scythers drop on top of me. The trade caravan 'helps' by igniting my base with molotovs... Brittany, prime sow and beloved bonded animal gets brutally cut to pieces alongside a bonded wolf. The brawlers and remaining pigs sustain a few cuts and bruises. First rice harvest since the fallout settles is brought in. Food supply should be secure.
T-4: Another deep drill infestation pops up and is quickly handled (1 injured). As the last insect bites the dust a sapper raid appears. Their doomsday rocket launcher critically misfires and wreaks havoc in the ranks of the invaders. Only minor injuries on my part. That could have gone sooo wrong. phew
T-3.6: Another sapper raid immediately follows. A psychic insanity lance takes out their doomsday rocket launcher bearer. My sniper turrets kill a wolf and shoot off its handler's shoulder... goddamnit. Besides that, injuries of varying degree.
T-3.4: A pirate merchant in orbit. Time to get rid of all the collected raider's weapons and buy another doomsday rocket launcher. Also, time for some muscle parasites (5 colonists) :/. 3 barrel changes clean out my steel stockpile
T-2.5: Another siege, close to my base. I pull no punches and immediately wreck their shit with a well placed doomsday rocket. Not a single injury received on my end. I capture one attacker to get her bionic eye and my 2 bloodlusty(bloodlusting?) pawns get some enjoyment from finishing off the rest of the downed attackers. While the rest of the colony is teetering on the brink of mental collapse, those two are happy as can get.
T-1.1: a 2-way raid. The gloves are off, I pull out the orbital bombardement targeter I found in the ancient danger and incinerate the bigger group (so, so satisfying - never used one before in my runs because I was "saving it for later"). The smaller group eats a doomsday rocket and my traps and turrets finish them off (my rocket wielder gets caught out in the open though and gets downed by a melee pawn - nothing too serious tahnkfully). A clumsy pawn springs one of our own traps - light injuries taken.
T-19h: we're getting close!! Another siege: I use my last doomsday rocket launcher to deal with the encampment and a few well placed sniper shots convince the rest to tuck tail and run.
15. Septober 5503, 12:00 - It is finally time! The reactor is ready, the sensors are polished to a mirror sheen, the AI is happily rattling off launch parameters. Time to load my colonists into the cryptosleep pods.
I gather my 18 surviving colonists at Crabs' grave to say a final farewell. What a crazy final stretch. Off to the stars we go.
(I actually had to reload twice during those last minutes because pawns kept breaking just as I was about to load them into the pods)
I'm curious, has anyone who's actually done the ship sequence lost? It looks like even though it's insanely hard either people just barely make it with most of their colony dead or suffer a couple losses while doing so. Maybe this is a case of people not posting when their ship gets blown up?
Or maybe players who do launch the ship are just experienced enough because newer players won't choose a difficulty that allows them to survive long enough to gather the materials to build it? Because I find it weird given how hard it is that seemingly nobody's gotten completely crushed.
https://imgur.com/a/vGRplAS
New game on phoebe extra hard NB with two pawns.
Lasted only 8 days because I decided to test out the new thrumbo speed buff (5.5 c/s).
Became manhunter after the first shot. Tried to use the usual technique of kiting over chunks, didn't work out so well.
Before the speed buff, I was able to hunt thrumbos using only short bows + kite technique throughout my 1.0 playthroughs.
I personally like this change because it felt like the thrumbos were way too easy to hunt and made the first month on NB much easier after you kill the first one.
Thrumbo fur parka + silver for the meat and horn pretty much set me up for the first winter in my other playthroughs. Lesson learned though. Early game thrumbos are scary once again.
Did Thrumbos get an armor buff recently? Last fight like half the shots bounced off of them...
Noticed that simple meals are supposed to be made of one ingredient according to its description.
But in reality, it can work with 2 ingredients of different types. I saw a simple meal being cooked with potatoes and meat. 3 potates and 7 meat if im not wrong.
Really been enjoying the unstable build so far. A few quick remarks:
- Hydroponics, the crematorium, and the advanced research bench (but not the basic bench) cannot be un/reinstalled like most production things can now. I'm probably missing a few in there, too. I'm not sure if this is intended (for some particular reason) or just an oversight.
- I've had an issue with pets (mostly my labradors) going nuts every time I have beer in storage. They chug it hard and I often have a puppy blacked-out on the stockpile floor, even when there is perfectly good food in the freezer (which is usually closer to them). I recall this was a thing in 0.18 and before (which I modded out), but it's really a hassle to have to allocate special stockpiles and zones just to keep them out of the stuff.
- Research feels a little fast. It takes no-time to blast to whatever tech in the tree you want, at least for industrial-tech factions. (Well, at least it was fast until everyone refused to do it because "research is a long-term task." Some bug happening there.)
- Water mills are very strong. I'm not sure what the right offset is to put watermills in line. Maybe they should give less power and/or have a larger interference range? It seems silly to hassle with solar/wind when hydro is so easy and consistent.
EDIT: a couple more I thought of just after posting.
- I am finding the quests much more compelling than before. It would be nice to have the current quests listed somewhere so that you don't have to click around sites on the worldmap to find them. Also, it might be nice to list the faction relation changes for completing quests or when performing trades.
- Drug binges last quite awhile. One of my pawns decided to go for psychite tea (or whichever drug comes in tea form) and, thanks to the energy boost, continued to consume one every hour or two for 24hrs before finally settling down. This was for a chemical interest pawn, not a normal mental break.
1.0.1956
Custom Tribal (no starting pets or weapons)
Pheobe Hard, world seed: Eternal sadness. Temperate forest, Mountainous, no river. Year round growing.
I won't change difficulty while playing, but there isn't an option to lock it in so...
Granite and marble, as is tradition. (granite for defense, marble for beauty bonus). Not sure why I would settle any other place.
No rich soil anywhere close to the center of the map. Guess I'm role-playing dwarves. 4 of my people are miners apparently. 4 of them are also Indoorsmen. I did not plan this.
I only mined where there's thin rock roof. Built a complex of several rooms against the mountain. May dig deeper later, but for now, efficiency with crops and hunting is key. Stonecutting is the first research.
Having 2 researchers is pretty useful also.
I noticed that when you tell a person to prioritize hauling something to a tile where you want the floor smoothed they queue that up if they are able to construct.
Nothing unusual happens for some time.
Day 45. first sapper raid. None of them have grenades or molotovs. I pick off 2 melee users who are at the front of the pack with greatbows and send 2 tamed alpacas against the shotgunner. Three died and the rest were routed.
Day 56 psychic ship. After trying to build walls 2 tiles from the ship to try to encase it in a fiery inferno the mechs appeared, I had never tried that before. I won't ever try it again. Billy got shot. We waited 2 days for him to heal up.
I sent 5 people to fight a scyther and a centipede and miraculously nobody died or was seriously injured in any way. Besides Tali who was bleeding 473% and had 5 hours to live. Luckily they could walk back to the hospital fast enough. As soon as they were tended I forced them to clean the trail of blood they left through the base as punishment for being shot 6 times by the same volley. Centipedes are dicks.
Day 62 refugee, young female. I say ok. She says me no fight. Ugh. Quickly dispatch the tribesmen on her tail, suffering one lost limb and almost a lost colonist. (two pilas to the chest leaving it at 1 hp)
Day 74: combo and reflex set out to trade 42 war veils for power armor and crafting neurotrainer. Now that my colonists are level 12 and 14 crafting because of fulfilling this request, it's less of a reward than I first thought. I just hope nothing big happens without ¼ of my colonists gone.
Day 77: tribal sappers. Caravan isn't back yet. Their 9 vs my 5. but I have boars. Even though they avoided traps greatbows are great and I killed one before they were in range. They got billy in the leg as we retreated behind the scattered deadfall traps. Turns out humans avoid them. 4 boars killed 2 of them as we pelted the others. 3 died, 3 fled, 3 captured. One boar lost its spine. We had pork in celebration.
Of course the one I want to recruit gets the infection. The other two were enough that their faction is neutral upon their release.
Caravan makes it back in time to get the plague at home. Nobody dies. Only herbal medicine used. Everybody has wooden plate armor now. It's very good, mainly because my crafters are so good.
New build, 1958 now. Played a bunch without writing much. Did some caravan stuff. Ambushed by a single hen. Hilarious. A total of 3 psychic ships hit this colony. We had a refugee event coincide with the most recent one. The raiders made short work of the mechs, and when I went to kill the ship it sent animals at us. 3 rhinos 4 muffalos and some smaller things. We took more damage and more infections from that than the raiders (who were well armed with assault rifles, machine pistols, flak gear, go juice, and a rocket launcher they wasted on the scythers)
Year two summary: One downed pawn became a prisoner, toxic fallout forced us inside, and with less work somehow my people were happy enough to inspire themselves for recruitment and a masterwork royal granite bed (which took 5000 work to make).
One raid had 3 separate forces converge on us, but they didn't all reach combat range at the same time, so I dealt with each pack in order and suffered no losses after taking out the doomsday rocket guy.
Bianca and Combo were to be wed in the coming weeks and we still hadn't recruited the prisoner from last raid. I noticed he had no jaw, and 2 not so great traits, no combat skills. We trained up some medicine by installing and reinstalling his kidney. I goofed and after a couple of times doing that we took out both his kidneys before putting one back in. No less than 2 seconds after I realize this had happened one of my huskies hauled his corpse away.
Caravan quests brought a total of 5 resurrector mech serums to this colony. We have 12 people now, year 3, 150k wealth. Only used one melee pawn, bought a shield belt for him quite early. I think for my play style, 10 ranged to 1 melee will work. I had been supplementing his skills with battle boars... Needs more testing though. Even the pawn I used for melee had decent shooting skills.
I avoided provoking thrumbos, because I was already wealthy. I play the game much differently now that I know that wealth affects the raids' difficulty. I wish I could test things without bias of previous knowledge.
2 different times huskies joined the colony. I'd tamed alpacas, wild boars, muffalo for base defence and as pack animals. There was a point where I had about 50 animals and 12 colonists.
Autocannon turrets are great. Not sure if they are truly necessary on phoebe/hard, for the stage I was at.
It might just be a feeling but does making a full perimeter wall increase the chances of sappers/sieges?
Just felt like the colony was set and it would be a year or two of grinding research and quests, fending off the occasional raid and relaxing until the ship is done. The hard/exciting gameplay is gone already. Either I have to up the difficulty or change storytellers or both.
Caravans and quests feel much better now. I contracted no diseases, lost no pawns in 2 years of sending out 2 or 3 man groups. Had 3 ambushes, all were 1 raider/animal... not sure that is what it's supposed to be.
Final thoughts: it is super weird that to harvest cocoa from trees you chop it down and collect chocolate bars ... I feel there are steps missing. Is the bark made of chocolate squares? How does it not melt in 60 degree weather?
Using ressurector mech serums isn't obvious, didn't say how to in the item description. time is of the essence with that so having it be clearer would be good for new players.
What is the threshold for inspired creativity? i had a pawn with 5 construction 2 crafting and 0 art get it, no passions, wasn't assigned to those tasks. Seems odd to me.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Serina on July 08, 2018, 10:07:18 PM
https://imgur.com/a/vGRplAS
New game on phoebe extra hard NB with two pawns.
Lasted only 8 days because I decided to test out the new thrumbo speed buff (5.5 c/s).
Became manhunter after the first shot. Tried to use the usual technique of kiting over chunks, didn't work out so well.
Before the speed buff, I was able to hunt thrumbos using only short bows + kite technique throughout my 1.0 playthroughs.
I personally like this change because it felt like the thrumbos were way too easy to hunt and made the first month on NB much easier after you kill the first one.
Thrumbo fur parka + silver for the meat and horn pretty much set me up for the first winter in my other playthroughs. Lesson learned though. Early game thrumbos are scary once again.
I like how you always name one of the pawns after yourself!
I have resurrected a pawn 33 days after sarcophagus burial. He was rotting and missing the top half of his head due to Lancer fire. He rezzed in perfect health, minus total blindness. I agree the interface for that and the healing serum is weird, but I like the items a lot.
Sapper the Resurrected now has two bionic eyes.
Great story, Cactus. Mech ships don't tolerate anything within about 6 tiles of them.
Quote from: robno on July 09, 2018, 12:35:33 AM
I like how you always name one of the pawns after yourself!
:D I try to name all the new recruits myself as well, rarely do they keep the names they spawned with. It helps me feel more attached to my colony so losses are a bit more devastating.
Quote from: Grimelord82 on July 09, 2018, 01:03:56 AM
I have resurrected a pawn 33 days after sarcophagus burial. He was rotting and missing the top half of his head due to Lancer fire. He rezzed in perfect health, minus total blindness. I agree the interface for that and the healing serum is weird, but I like the items a lot.
Sapper the Resurrected now has two bionic eyes.
I've never used a resurrector mech serum and thought you couldn't use it on rotting corpses, only fresh ones, according to the description. That's pretty cool Sapper was able to revive with his head intact. I wonder if the serum is working as intended.
Quote from: Sirsir on July 08, 2018, 10:34:29 PM
Did Thrumbos get an armor buff recently? Last fight like half the shots bounced off of them...
I'm not sure, I only remember reading about increased speed on thrumbos.
Quote from: Sirsir on July 08, 2018, 10:34:29 PM
Did Thrumbos get an armor buff recently? Last fight like half the shots bounced off of them...
Yes they got armor when the new armor system was introduced. You can see for yourself on their information page ( assuming they're alive ). They've got 60 sharp, 40 blunt, 30 heat. They did however lose some hitpoints when this armor was added. They're roughly as tough as they were before but now they get fewer injuries making them a bit more manageable if tamed.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 08, 2018, 11:14:47 PM
Noticed that simple meals are supposed to be made of one ingredient according to its description.
But in reality, it can work with 2 ingredients of different types. I saw a simple meal being cooked with potatoes and meat. 3 potates and 7 meat if im not wrong.
Simple meals don't actually require 1 ingredient, they just require 0.5 nutrition worth of raw food, irrespective of the source, you could make a simple meal out of 10 different ingredients, though colonists prefer to use 1 whenever possible. Their description does say one ingredient however.
Quote from: Serina on July 09, 2018, 01:37:39 AM
I've never used a resurrector mech serum and thought you couldn't use it on rotting corpses, only fresh ones, according to the description. That's pretty cool Sapper was able to revive with his head intact. I wonder if the serum is working as intended.
The resurrector serum says "Outcomes are better when the mechanites are administered to a fresher body. Well-preserved bodies can be resurrected , even long after death".
You can resurrect bodies so long as they're merely Rotten, not Dessicated.
Depending on the environment that the corpse is left in it can last a surprising amount of time in the Rotten state. And they won't rot at all if frozen.
I'm not totally sure what would happen if you buried someone in a sarcophagus in a freezer, I -think- the game handles it correctly and the corpse is preserved but I haven't tested it personally. I have vague memories of digging up graves in polar environments and discovering they were still fresh.
---
Little bit of Sniper Turret feedback -
Can't say I'm a huge fan of them overall as they're simultaneously not very effective vs raiders while also being gross overkill due to the shape of their damage output. Mostly they're inaccurate vs raiders at long range while being only marginally more accurate than the Autocannon at the range most weapons engage at. For the most part autocannons outperform sniper turrets vs people even when they're in power armor in my experience.
Any autocannon shot that hits is going to to extreme damage, probably destroying whatever it hits. The same is true of the sniper turret except.. the autocannon fires 3x as many shots and is actually more accurate due to the quantity of shots fired.
Both turrets are similarly efficient in terms of damage-to-steel ratios but in terms of actual combat performance the autocannon fairs considerably better. Additionally the Sniper turret requires more plasteel to construct and is therefore a bit more expensive to replace. Not in terms of raw value but in terms of availability.
So vs people and even large animals I'm not impressed with the sniper turret.
Vs Centipedes it's considerably better. Their large size and gigantic health-per-part almost completely remove the aforementioned disadvantages. Additionally the sniper turret has enough AP to never be affected by the centipedes whopping 80% sharp armor. There's also no soft targets for the sniper rifle's damage potential to be wasted on.
Still, overall Autocannons are still an effective solution to centipedes. Very effective frankly.
If I was struggling to deal with centipedes my first thought would be to add more autocannons, not add sniper turrets.
There's also the nature of how the extra range plays out. You can't afford to stand in front of either kind of turret - they're simply too lethal, one stray shot is all it takes to kill a friendly - and the sniper turret exacerbates the issue. You can easily fight in tandem with an Autocannon if you're using virtually any kind of weapon, even short range weapons like shotguns at least prop up your damage output when enemies start to close.
Sniper turrets however.. Well you can't put them behind your autocannons unless you put them
directly behind them and that's not super practical due to explosion potential and firing angles can sometimes result in friendly fire fiascos. You can stand directly behind them but then.. well would you be better off with autocannons? Probably in my experience.
I haven't tried exclusively using sniper turrets yet, it's next on my list. Perhaps the experience is different when I'm playing exclusively to the sniper turret's strengths. I'm not optimistic though.
Quote from: Boboid on July 09, 2018, 03:21:00 AM
Vs Centipedes it's considerably better. Their large size and gigantic health-per-part almost completely remove the aforementioned disadvantages. Additionally the sniper turret has enough AP to never be affected by the centipedes whopping 80% sharp armor. There's also no soft targets for the sniper rifle's damage potential to be wasted on.
Still, overall Autocannons are still an effective solution to centipedes. Very effective frankly.
If I was struggling to deal with centipedes my first thought would be to add more autocannons, not add sniper turrets.
I've used autocannons only against centipedes, i think anything smaller is a waste of steel. And they were really helpful to shorten the fight against swarms of centipedes.
I deemed their upkeep just right.
Sniper turrets, well: 200 steel a barrel for 40 shots vs 180 a barrel for 90 shots for the autocannon. Their upkeep is off the chart, even end game, unless you're swimming in steel, which i wasn't even year 8 with dedicated drillers with bionic arms.
All in all, sniper turrets are better, but relatively, autocannons are in the sweet spot against centipedes. Anything smaller doesn't justifies the waste of steel imo. Maybe to justify the higher AP a sniper turret barrel could be half steel/ half plasteel. It would be 100 steel/ 100 plasteel and would be worth it since when you fight centipedes, you end up having disproportionately more plasteel than steel.
Edit: btw i'd also like to be able to manufacture barrels. It's not really safe or handy to bring 180 steel on the frontline to change a barrel during the fight. Prebuilt barrels like mortar shells would help
I'm not certain the new recreation selection algorithm is right. Why did this pawn choose to stop working and start playing chess?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1436078442
She was 22% full on cerebral play already, was nearly full on entertainment, and had several other options in front of her. Also I believe there were other valid work options (she was in the middle of cleaning)
Thanks for the ongoing feedback!
kreig, you are a true first-post hero. Thank you for writing.
I'm seeking thoughts on research speed. How is it? Too fast? Too slow? How long does it take you to research what you need, and everything after that?
Quote from: YokoZar on July 09, 2018, 03:54:29 AM
I'm not certain the new recreation selection algorithm is right. Why did this pawn choose to stop working and start playing chess?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1436078442
She was 22% full on cerebral play already, was nearly full on entertainment, and had several other options in front of her. Also I believe there were other valid work options (she was in the middle of cleaning)
Perhaps she had recreation on the timetable?
I see pawns doing recreation instead of sleep if they are not tired loads of times I don't think it's unusual.
Research Speed seems slightly fast, but that could be subjective: my last full game was a Tribal Start. Even with that being said, it seems like a single colonist in a dirty warehouse is moving at a very impressive speed.
Scyther Feedback -
Just had my first true Scyther encounter in 1.0 via Psychic Ship, fifteen minutes ago; 3 Melee, 1 Charge Lancer vs. 6 Pawns wearing Devilstrand Pants/Shirts and various Parkas, quality of Devilstrand ranging from good to excellent - All were carrying ranged weapons with the following breakdown:
Level 15 Shooter - Machine Pistol (good, 99%)
Level 14 Shooter - Machine Pistol (normal, 99%)
Level 13 Shooter - Revolver (excellent, 100%)
Level 9 Shooter (Trigger Happy) - Machine Pistol (normal, 69%)
Level 8 Shooter - Pump Shotgun (normal, 100%)
Level 7 Shooter - Pump Shotgun (normal, 100%)
An ad-hoc granite-walled bunker with sandbags and Steel Deadfall Traps were constructed to provide cover 16 tiles from the Psychic Ship, which can be seen here prior to the fight: https://i.imgur.com/wdrt52b.png
Results (3 tries with the exact same layout as the image above):
1st Attempt - 2 Melee Scythers were downed by 3 left/3 right targeting from behind cover/3rd Scyther broke through on far left after triggering a deadfall, and was downed inside the bunker, wounding one colonist severely. The Lancer Scyther, firing from the top-left edge of the ship shot off the limbs (1 arm, 1 hand) of 2 seperate colonists behind cover, before being downed by massed gunfire.
2nd Attempt - 2 Melee Scythers downed by massed gunfire; 3rd Scyther broke through in the middle, avoided all traps downing 1 colonist, wounding another before being downed. Lance Scyther shot off the arm of another colonist behind cover, and was downed by mass gunfire as colonists left cover and closed the distance.
3rd Attempt - 1 Melee Scyther downed by deadfall trap, 1 damaged by Trap and downed by gunfire, 1 broke into the bunker and was downed after inflciting minor injuries on one colonist; the remaining Lance Scyther severely injured 1 colonist who was behind cover, and lightly injured 2 others (1 behind cover, 1 in no cover). The Lance Scyther was rushed by all colonists from a distance of 4-6 tiles, and was downed by massed gunfire, without any further injuries to colonists.
My impression: The Lance Scythers are very, very dangerous at that range. This is the first encounter that I can recall in which I've had pawns who were wearing Devilstrand lose limbs entirely. Melee Scythers proved to be less difficult than I anticipated to massed gunfire, with guns that are not particularly powerful.
I am concerned about the loss of limbs, which seemed to happen far more frequently in this instance than in similar situations in B18.
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 03:56:03 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback!
kreig, you are a true first-post hero. Thank you for writing.
I'm seeking thoughts on research speed. How is it? Too fast? Too slow? How long does it take you to research what you need, and everything after that?
I would love if tribal could advance in tech level as they progress through the research tree so they can recruit higher tech people faster and research faster! I had to use the tech advancing mod to let me do that so it didnt take ages and now I'm missing it.
New build! Largely rebalancings on this one.
---
Turrets can now define an inherent accuracy (instead of it being hardcoded at 96%). Rebalanced sniper turret more accurate and slower.
Adjusted apparel optimization algorithm consideration of health. It now ignores health until you hit the frayed/tattered thought thresholds.
Slightly slower research.
Adjust hive tunnel sound distances.
Fix: Redundant text on mad animal letter label.
Pulse-charged munitions requires precision rifling.
Humans can bite. Misc changes to psychite tea.
Adjust berserk pawn max attack distance.
Text adjustments.
Go and work frenzy inspirations last longer.
Slightly increase friendly fire exclusion range and refactor it so it lerps smoothly instead of stair-stepping.
Sappers avoid mining paths a bit more.
Adjusted some warmup and cooldown times on weapons.
Increase steel amount in mapgen. Reduce flak armor cost a bit.
Made smelting slag yield more steel.
Rebalanced stuff stats for melee specialization a bit.
Standardize melee cooldowns into slow, standard, and fast attacks. Rebalance a few melee weapons.
Buff go-juice. Reduce scyther speed slightly. Increase world quest challenge points.
Revert "Adjusted outdoors need speeds."
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 04:04:54 AM
Quote from: YokoZar on July 09, 2018, 03:54:29 AM
I'm not certain the new recreation selection algorithm is right. Why did this pawn choose to stop working and start playing chess?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1436078442
She was 22% full on cerebral play already, was nearly full on entertainment, and had several other options in front of her. Also I believe there were other valid work options (she was in the middle of cleaning)
Perhaps she had recreation on the timetable?
I checked for this -- just default "anything" or "rest". Even if she didn't have anything else to do but recreate, she shouldn't have chosen chess -- that's the worst option in that case as you can see in the screenshot (pray, meditate, social, horseshoes all are better there)
Ever time I go to my defence positions, my pet dogs come along. They also get shot up by the raiders, so I assign them a safe inside zone - which they ignore. I can remove the owner from the pet, but everytime there is a raid, this is tiring. The extended zone of friendly fire now means they do not get shot by their owners, but the raiders still kill them. Is there any other solution, to keep them alive?
Quote from: biship on July 09, 2018, 06:08:28 AM
Ever time I go to my defence positions, my pet dogs come along. They also get shot up by the raiders, so I assign them a safe inside zone - which they ignore. I can remove the owner from the pet, but everytime there is a raid, this is tiring. The extended zone of friendly fire now means they do not get shot by their owners, but the raiders still kill them. Is there any other solution, to keep them alive?
You can go into the animals tab and set animals to not follow the master if drafted (see attached). You can also click and drag the designator too, so you can designate/undesignate multiple animals with a single click and drag. The designating thing has been a thing since A16 IIRC.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Version: 1.0.0 – 1.0.1958 no mods
Scenario: Cassandra rough, crashlanded unmodified
Map: Standard, have two playthroughs
First: Temperate forest, large river, road, flat
Second: Extreme desert, flat, growing all year.
Playtime in 1.0 just below 100hrs, not sure about total, played since A15.
Things I like:
New armor system, letting melee actually fight close without necessarily gaining lots of wounds is interesting. To combine this with the scythers, I have one manned them with my melee soldiers, often without any wounds. They seem somewhat easy, which is okay when they come in large groups. That said, I like the split with lancers and scythers.
Edit: Just had a raid with 12 scythers, and no lancers. Just like with melee only groups we meet them in the field, most of them dead before they arrive. The few that make it to us get cut down by the melees. I think the issue here is mostly that the group is only melee than that they scythers themselves are too weak.
I really like the new prosthetics. They make it possible to fix up pawns and make it so I don't have to replace them after a while in game.
Bridges are great. Fun to use.
Raids spreading out are great. Gives an extra challenge.
Inspirations are fun too.
The new crashlanded start is nice too; less researched makes you try new things. A little different than before, quite nice.
Things that may not be working as intended:
I've had a couple of raids with only one weapon type. Doesn't matter much when it is range, but when it is melee, they can often be slaughtered out in the fields. Seem a little too easy.
Armor having speed penalties. It makes me want to take them off, but it is just too micro intensive for me to bother. Kind of annoying. I would rather see armor have an economic penalty in cost or work to make.
Smoothing walls is really nice, but it is a little sad that the +1 goes away if you have a power line in it. I guess it is to show the power line being on the outside?
Infections. I have had only one somewhat big mine mined out on the temperate map. I placed down some fire traps+wood and left it. In total we have had 4 infestations that have killed themselves on the fire trap. Seem a little uninteresting. Infestations shouldn't be so frequent on flat maps I would say.
I've had three trade caravans arrive just before or just after manhunters. In the ensuing chaos many of them have died, and faction relations have plummeted. Kind of sad, but I guess it is okay. Not sure if it is intended though.
Other things:
I also have to add on to the watermill, it just have no downsides except wood cost and space use.
Traders seem a little infrequent, might be okay though, as it has made me want and need to go caravanning.
Item quality rework is nice, less confusing. I would like to see a little bigger difference on the legendaries. I have a couple of weapons which seem a little underwhelming (ARs and CRs).
I have used to have many different defensive setups, but with the new attack types, it seem they haven't been used as much. Maybe a little more in the later patches. I don't mind that attackers try to bypass defences. It just makes me design stuff a little different. So can easily have more sappers and the like, but preferably without half manned with grenades, as it becomes very micro intensive.
The trade quest seem to have been tuned down in frequency and worth. Some seem like a little too much work, or use too many resources, or just is too far to travel. I would like at least the frequency tuned up a little.
Ive had no issues with recreation. I have one hour assigned at the end of the day, and they can do it if they want during the day.
Mostly I prefer threats outside of raids, having issues with food is to me more interesting.
Caravanning is fun, but they shouldn't require you to send out half the village, that risk is too big when I mostly defend with pawns.
In regards to research speed it depends very on the researcher. It took forever at the start without a good one, just a few skill 4. I don't mind a slower game, so it seemed okay. Enough time that I built a generator. At the end with a 20 skill burning passion researcher they seem to go ridiculously fast. Makes me wish for a research queue. Seems to be hard to balance when research skill matters so much. Filled tech tree in the start of the third year seems to be the time I get with just one researcher working nearly full time.
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 05:23:56 AM
Pulse-charged munitions requires precision rifling.
Yes, that's good. While playing I very often skipped this research for pulse-charged weapons. Sniper rifles and assault rifles simply aren't as appealing to research when you can go straight to charge rifles and lances.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 09, 2018, 06:12:52 AM
You can go into the animals tab and set animals to not follow the master if drafted (see attached). You can also click and drag the designator too, so you can designate/undesignate multiple animals with a single click and drag. The designating thing has been a thing since A16 IIRC.
Oh, I did not notice that was added - thanks!
Quote from: Arq on July 09, 2018, 12:12:44 AM
Hydroponics, the crematorium, and the advanced research bench (but not the basic bench) cannot be un/reinstalled like most production things can now.
The crematorium being fixed is fine. But hydroponics basins should really be movable
I am still trying out every kind of world map ambushes and i really like what i see. The bump in challenge was slight enough to make it more interesting, without making it annoying death play with having to send crapton of people out to avoid wipes. You go without armor and good weapons - you're kind of hosed. You go prepared properly - armors, melees, long range snipers - you only can fail if you have a major brainfart going on. Like standing in the open, or letting enemy melee units charge your shooters. Or shooting your own melees in the back, instead of focusing on enemy shooters.
Actually most troublesome enemy i've encountered on world map ambushes turned out to be tribals. New armor system done good to make you actually feel like you are a space marine slaughtering idiotic half naked savages, when you fight them, but the sheer amount of them and greatbows (and pilas) make them incredibly dangerous. Couple unlucky hits from a greatbow can really mess someone up even in power armor. And the amount of their melees makes it hard to restrict them, from moving into your shooter melee range too. Still at least now those little skirmishes stay little even at 400k wealth and don't pit you against crazy 16-18 raiders or 14 mechs against your 5-6 people. I also like a lot that now actually having couple triple melee units is kind of mandatory if you don't want to have a wipe on your hands.
Infections are kind of annoying while caravanning though. Even if you're a tactical genius, you'll still be taking hits, its unavoidable. And thankfully armor mitigates a lot of wounds into more or less harmless bruises now, but any kind of bleeding wound still pretty much guaranteed to be infected, without bed treatments. And god save if you don't have a decent doc with proper medicine then. Or if your doc was the one who got that unlucky arrow to his knee.
I am also wondering, if lump sizes from mineral scanner can be adjusted, so that gold and plasteel lumps can be worth going for. Right now i will always go for silver (big size lumps, semi-fast mining), jade (medium to small lumps, reasonably fast mining), components lumps (big size, fast enough mining), but pretty much never go for plasteel (you spend ages mining that and get like 10-12 tiles of it in the lump, which is meh, you get more killing mechs) and gold (currency item, low yields and lump sizes are just insulting - 10-13 tiles). Uranium i usually think about going for, since its a rare material, but the amount is still quite low to justify an expedition.
2 more things for consideration: resources spawn on temp maps again and let us hunt steel with long range scanner. i won't get tired of saying steel is the lifeblood of this game. More ways of getting it without trading - is good.
I might now start getting out of my home map to have fun and interesting combat situations, not for resources. Because colony raids late game with huge wealth are becoming a huge slaugterfests, nearly without any tactics involved, just sheer amount of firepower, to make them flee as soon as you can, before they do too much damage. In contrast to that, small scale combat situations are heaps more fun, since every participant's skill, armor and weapon mean something.
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 05:23:56 AM
Humans can bite.
Adjusted some warmup and cooldown times on weapons.
Rebalanced stuff stats for melee specialization a bit.
Standardize melee cooldowns into slow, standard, and fast attacks. Rebalance a few melee weapons.
Guess I'm starting up a new melee colony, damnyouuuuuUu.
In all seriousness though - yay new toys.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 07:38:03 AM
I am also wondering, if lump sizes from mineral scanner can be adjusted, so that gold and plasteel lumps can be worth going for. Right now i will always go for silver (big size lumps, semi-fast mining), jade (medium to small lumps, reasonably fast mining), components lumps (big size, fast enough mining), but pretty much never go for plasteel (you spend ages mining that and get like 10-12 tiles of it in the lump, which is meh, you get more killing mechs) and gold (currency item, low yields and lump sizes are just insulting - 10-13 tiles). Uranium i usually think about going for, since its a rare material, but the amount is still quite low to justify an expedition.
I hate to bring this up again madman but.... The trade value of plasteel and gold should be considered :P
In terms of wealth gained and usefulness of materials I consider plasteel and gold to be extremely worthwhile when judging LRMS sites.
The fact that gold is used in advanced components alone typically makes it in fairly high demand in my games.
I will admit that I stick a LOT of bionic parts on my colonists and I typically have fairly large colony sizes unless I'm specifically recruiting for a whacky playthrough.
In terms of plasteel - Well it's worth a lot more than gold in terms of raw wealth and it's harder to obtain. You have to pay more for it and it requires exotic goods traders most of the time.
In both cases they're mostly used in smaller quantities as well. 100 steel is a pittance, 100 gold is not.
Overall I think the LRMS is in a good spot and any more buffs to it would be.. overly generous? But I may be in the minority.
Don't forget - gold is a currency item. You can craft and build things out of it for a reason. So whats the point of 10 tiles worth gold lump, if you can't do anything from it? Because you seriously can't, its too small. In comparison silver lumps are real big. I am not saying gold lump should be as big as silver ones, but 10 tiles... is as i said - insulting. I guess this is where we look at it differently - you look at it as trade goods, i look at it, like a crafting\building material for the colony. You might be right from trade point of view - its expensive, so making scanner find more, may spike your wealth... But from my point of view it takes ages to find enough gold to craft a single item :( I wish gold d be a normal stack item, non currency one.
Plasteel lumps are same-ish in size and thats incredibly frustrating. It takes crapton of time mining it and hardly get a journey's worth, since you get heaps more from a single mech raid well not heaps more, but quite a bit and those are quite frequent. Or from deep drills. I think it should at least be on par with other means of getting it. Other types of world events are often a lot more lucrative than plasteel\gold lumps.
Though even if those amounts won't be changed - i am really happy with how world event aren't a 100% suicide runs now. I ll just add steel lumps to scanners for my run and be quite content with it.
Crashlanded, Cassandra Rough arid shrubland, single animal insanity disabled, almost at end of year one:
This was yesterday's build so some things may be addressed, but some things I noticed:
had 2 pod crashes within a minute of each other containing muffalo fur
sometimes when hovering over sandstone mountain walls it displays the floor info instead of the roof info
emus have a 100% chance to attack when hunted
had a manhunter pack of one cougar, these should be at least 3 or so to distinguish this event more from single animal insanity.
The research speed is good, I like it a bit longer- I'm curious if the research skill gain has been slowed down as well, that would make sense as getting a monster researcher could happen pretty quickly in earlier versions. The early game feels drawn out a bit more which is nice, it makes the beginning tech more relevant.
The raids seem to be more frequent but are scaling slower, but now I have seven colonists already which may be lucky or may be about right? I feel like I read that gaining colonists from raids would be less common now.
I like the added quest info, it will encourage venturing out more.
I have no complaints in regards to research speed (current run is tribal/swamp/cassandra rough,, three years long).
The way it's set up, later techs are easier to research because you have higher level researchers, better and multiple workbenches, and more researchers means you can put a couple on night shift and a couple during day hours. Even with no research for the first year, I was able to get to pre-starflight tech at a moderate pace.
QuoteSo whats the point of 10 tiles worth gold lump, if you can't do anything from it? Because you seriously can't, its too small.
10 tiles of gold ore is ~350 gold - Enough to make 116 advanced components or 6 royal beds.
Now don't get me wrong it's not enough to make sculptures or furniture out of but.. why would you do that anyway? You might as well be lighting it on fire and increasing the size of every raid :P
Plasteel is in a similar situation - Sure you get some from mechanoids but personally I use all I can get on armor, bionics, and strategically important doors. ~350 plasteel goes a fairly long way. That's enough to make 6 bionic arms or legs. Or two suits of plasteel plate armor which are basically indestructible in addition to being nearly as effective as power armor.
I won't dispute that plasteel takes a bazillion years to mine but.. as I said I find it worthwhile.
The slower research speeds feel good. Even with a standard Research Bench, one could have a high level researcher (perhaps with a global work speed boost, to top it off) carve through early techs, if able to dedicate said worker. I've been able to "eat tech, for breakfast" here lately.
Slowing it down a bit makes each tech feel more potent. This also could add a greater sense of the struggle to fight for research time (i.e. a greater appreciation for the entire system.)
Quote from: Boboid on July 09, 2018, 09:22:22 AM
as I said I find it worthwhile.
Eh, well, if you're fine with it how it is, you're fine with it. I say it could use a boost, but as always - many people, many opinions. Even if it stays as is, i can't say i am unhappy. I can always tweak it a bit myself to be optimal.
Exotic good traders should not sell 1-2 hyperweave. Suggesting this:
Add hyperweave to the excluded things ExoticMisc Tag.
<li Class="StockGenerator_Tag">
<tradeTag>ExoticMisc</tradeTag>
<thingDefCountRange>
<min>3</min>
<max>5</max>
</thingDefCountRange>
<countRange>
<min>1</min>
<max>2</max>
</countRange>
<excludedThingDefs>
<li>Luciferium</li> <!-- already handled by drugs -->
<li>MedicineUltratech</li> <!-- already handled by single def -->
<li>ComponentSpacer</li> <!-- already handled by single def -->
<li>Hyperweave</li> <!-- already handled by single def -->
</excludedThingDefs>
</li>
And rather make them have it as a single def, maybe with a chance to appear?
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 05:23:56 AMHumans can bite.
It just killed my best crafter in social fight. I might be biased right now, but 12.5 damage feels like too much for a bite - my pawn got killed before he was downed by pain. See attached picture.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Damn, 12 damage on a bite, wow. Quite the sharp teeth humans have. More than a cut from legendary gladius, lol
Bug keeps popping up when a pawn is a miner and a crafter. If a wall tile is smoothed, then you decide to mine it out, my pawn will mine it part way, then stop mining and repair it, then mine it, then repair it, in a never ending loop. Needs to be made so when set to be mined it can't be repaired or something, like a wall being deconstructed.
I played on Cassandra Rough/Hard Flat Arid
Played on build 1956 and build 1957
In regards to killboxes, and people claiming they don't work on open maps, it depends how you define "killbox". My wrap-around kill-corridor works just fine, and also works on sappers. I've attached pictures of my setup, and the aftermath of a sapper raid.
(https://i.imgur.com/4Wzt5cI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/dpD8S8n.png)
My wealth graph is not useful, as I have used the dev tools to test some things.
My experience with the mechanoids is that the lancers are a little dumb, in that they can be fairly easily lured into melee, whereas the scythers were very reasonably scary. The centipede I ran into was quite fun, and didn't feel too easy or too hard.
I feel like autodoors don't have enough of a niche to be worth researching until very late game. Maybe if they had more HP than regular doors, but required Microelectronics?
Tynan asked about research speed, so my feeling is that it is hard to dedicate anyone to researching until I have at least 5 colonists, so I feel like the early game research is balanced well, but once I get the Multi-analyzer, and most of the researches after that, research feels too fast. I'm getting another research done every game day, even though my researcher takes breaks to hunt.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 09:57:17 AM
Damn, 12 damage on a bite, wow. Quite the sharp teeth humans have. More than a cut from legendary gladius, lol
Probably enough to take an ear out in one chomp. I'm naming my top melee guy walter ::)
Tass, why the graves?
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Tass, why the graves?
They prevent trees/bushes from growing in the kill-corridor and providing cover.
Also... Intimidation!
Quote from: erdrik on July 08, 2018, 01:30:46 PM
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 08, 2018, 12:53:56 PM
...
I thought as soon as you built/crafted/operated/etc. on something the inspiration ends?
It does. Thats why you halt the crafting before the item is built. Losing inspiration once it is built doesn't prevent that you just turned a mostly normal piece of unfinished project into a masterwork for only 10 or 20 work.
(especially egregious for projects like plate armor which is ~600 work to complete)
That way you have a store of unfinished crafting projects just waiting for a crafter to get inspiration.
As soon as the crafter gets inspiration, finish one and BAM! get a masterwork/legendary.
If you are still only getting one per inspiration, I guess I just don't see the point of having a bunch ready. Couldn't you still just have a crafter make the whole thing once inspired? The inspiration lasts long enough that it isn't really an issue of running out of time to craft something, at least in my experience. Perhaps I am missing something in this scenario??
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Tass, why the graves?
Because you have to put the skeletons somewhere after you turn the meat into kibble and the skin into bowler hats.
Quote from: Mihsan on July 09, 2018, 09:50:10 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 05:23:56 AMHumans can bite.
It just killed my best crafter in social fight. I might be biased right now, but 12.5 damage feels like too much for a bite - my pawn got killed before he was downed by pain. See attached picture.
That scar + all those wounds, minus the bite is 34.15 damage. Fair chance that another punch to the torso would've killed him in any case since he only had 5.85 torso health left.
Still hilarious however :P
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 09:57:17 AM
Damn, 12 damage on a bite, wow. Quite the sharp teeth humans have. More than a cut from legendary gladius, lol
.. what are you making your Gladii out of?
Cheese? A normal steel gladius does 9/15/15 damage :P A legendary plasteel gladius does 13.4/27.2/27.2.
---
Anyway! Just started up a fresh Cass/hard/tribal/arid 60/60 grow game to give meleeing another run.
- The melee bulk stat could use a
lot more clarification/removal entirely from melee weapons. For some reason I've had a bit of a blind spot for it but looking at it with fresh eyes I've realized that it totally fails to communicate any useful information.
Attack frequency is listed under melee dps so, melee bulk is fairly misleading.
Quote from: Tass237 on July 09, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Tass, why the graves?
They prevent trees/bushes from growing in the kill-corridor and providing cover.
Also... Intimidation!
Wouldn't roofing over the kill donut have the same effect?
Thoughts on things after past couple of playthroughs (I'm not getting super late as starting a new conly most days for a new patch). All on Cass hard, temperate forest, done small, large hills and mountain.
Scythers seem fine, fought some on raids and ships and not too big of a problem. I mostly fight them from popping ancient dangers especially tribal starts as getting the loot (including the folks gear in the caskets) helps immensely due to slow research speeds and gives you a large room to use (I do get crops growing first).
Research speeds seem fine for spacers if a little fast. Though increasing research time doubly hurts tribals. Personally I like the "tech advancing" mods and think it could be good for the base game. It would give you the option of researching more of the early things you might not want right away to make things later faster to research or you can skip the early and push for the advanced techs.
I also feel that mountain starts got a buff in 1.0. Infestations are nerfed in that you now get time to evacuate an area before they spawn thus reducing the biggest risk mountain bases had. With the inclusion of the new scatter raids and other raid types mountain bases safety is increased as they only have one direction to attack them from. Mountains also have far more resources albeit you have to find them by grid mining.
One thing I am really missing right now is "haul urgently" from Allowtool. I know the forbid/unforbid all got added but haul urgently was so useful for not having things rot outside without having to change priorities in the work tab to get hauling done after a harvest of a battle. If you have animals hauling for you this is less of an issue but still frustrating to me.
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 05:23:56 AMTurrets can now define an inherent accuracy (instead of it being hardcoded at 96%). Rebalanced sniper turret more accurate and slower.
looks like everything including T-shirts lists accuracy in description now, which is intriguing https://i.imgur.com/3dSNl2u.png
Quote from: Boboid on July 09, 2018, 10:42:51 AM
.. what are you making your Gladii out of? Cheese? A normal steel gladius does 9/15/15 damage :P A legendary plasteel gladius does 13.4/27.2/27.2.
Lol, nah, just brainfarted a bit - old habit of looking at DPS instead of actual melee strikes damage kicked in. Legendary steel one has ~11 DPS, so hence my comment. Still 12 damage on human bite is kinda... too much?
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 08:42:39 AM
Don't forget - gold is a currency item. You can craft and build things out of it for a reason. So whats the point of 10 tiles worth gold lump, if you can't do anything from it? Because you seriously can't, its too small. But from my point of view it takes ages to find enough gold to craft a single item :( I wish gold d be a normal stack item, non currency one.
Mined a lot of gold lumps. And still waiting for creativity inspiration buff on my sculptor to do grand statue. :'(
Also, just a 3 lumps can be turned into thing you can never sell for fair price. ;D
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 09, 2018, 11:02:53 AM
Quote from: Tass237 on July 09, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
They prevent trees/bushes from growing in the kill-corridor and providing cover.
Also... Intimidation!
Wouldn't roofing over the kill donut have the same effect?
Maybe? Last time I tried that (in B18 I believe), I would still get seedling trees adn bushes that would get stuck at 5% growth, but still provided some cover. Besides, I like the way this looks, and it is fun to have little reminders of where enemies die in past raids, because they often get buried wherever they fell.
I forgot to mention my caravan experiences in my last post. Again, Cass, Rough/Hard, Arid, Flat. Builds 1956 and 1957.
I have gotten 3 quests that I have completed.
One was a request for 1850 patchleather, and gave an Infinite Chemreactor, an orbital bombardment targeter, and 3 antigrain warheads. The patchleather was a big ask, but I already had 680 leather (though I wanted to keep the heavy fur), and I started hunting everything I could to get more. Eventually I had a bulk goods trade ship pass by and I ordered ~500 leather from them to make sure I could complete the order in time. I took 2 pawns and a camel, and enough food for 1.5 times the estimated round trip length. The only caravan event I got was another caravan with whom I traded, but my caravan ran out of food half a day before getting home, so they were very hungry (but not malnourished) when they made it back to the colony. Not sure how I screwed up the food supplies.
The second caravan was for peace talks. I sent my best negotiator and a soldier, with plenty of extra food. Before they got there, I got raided by that tribe, and the prisoners I released after the raid brought the tribe up to neutral, so I turned the caravan around.
The third caravan was a request for 30 firefoam shells, and offered a Legendary assault rifle and a jade animal sleeping box. I had to have the rifle, so I made the shells and sent the caravan. (I was surprised that I didn't need to research either IEDs or Mortars to build the shells) I collected the rifle, and got surprised by a pack of manhunting gazelle on the way home. I quickly equipped the Legendary assault rifle and thoroughly destroyed the gazelles with it. (my caravan already had my Masterwork assault rifle with them, which I had bought from some traders, so two very powerful assault rifles are a great combo on open field).
Side note: It is a little silly that you lose 15 faction relationship for removing a peg leg that you JUST installed on a person for "Harvesting limbs" :P
Quote from: Awe on July 09, 2018, 11:23:59 AM
Mined a lot of gold lumps. And still waiting for creativity inspiration buff on my sculptor to do grand statue. :'(
Also, just a 3 lumps can be turned into thing you can never sell for fair price. ;D
Fine, fine. I give up. Lets leave the gold alone. I ll just mod its amount in lumps for myself and be done with it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote from: Tass237 on July 09, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Tass, why the graves?
They prevent trees/bushes from growing in the kill-corridor and providing cover.
Also... Intimidation!
Ive always wondered why open graves didn't have a higher pathing cost, or provided cover while standing in them...
I mean they are basically very short length trenches...
Quote from: erdrik on July 09, 2018, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Tass237 on July 09, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Tass, why the graves?
They prevent trees/bushes from growing in the kill-corridor and providing cover.
Also... Intimidation!
Ive always wondered why open graves didn't have a higher pathing cost, or provided cover while standing in them...
I mean they are basically very short length trenches...
Prior to 1.0, graves also provided a minor exploit where enemies (and your drafted pawns) didn't like stopping on top of graves to shoot, so building graves could be used to discourage enemies from seeking cover. That is no longer the case in 1.0 thankfully.
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Tass, why the graves?
I thought it was for less hauling time of the dead bodies. Also because holy cow I would no assault a base surrounded by the graves of once and future attackers.
Quote from: Tass237 on July 09, 2018, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: erdrik on July 09, 2018, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: Tass237 on July 09, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Tass, why the graves?
They prevent trees/bushes from growing in the kill-corridor and providing cover.
Also... Intimidation!
Ive always wondered why open graves didn't have a higher pathing cost, or provided cover while standing in them...
I mean they are basically very short length trenches...
Prior to 1.0, graves also provided a minor exploit where enemies (and your drafted pawns) didn't like stopping on top of graves to shoot, so building graves could be used to discourage enemies from seeking cover. That is no longer the case in 1.0 thankfully.
I dunno if graves should be an appropriate means of preventing tree growth based cover tho.
I think it is itself an exploit since normally you would have to spend resources to floor over the ground to do it, and that would result in faster moving enemies. But graves don't cost resources, and don't really take alot of time to dig.
Quote from: erdrik on July 09, 2018, 11:48:37 AM
Quote from: Tass237 on July 09, 2018, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: erdrik on July 09, 2018, 11:35:20 AM
Ive always wondered why open graves didn't have a higher pathing cost, or provided cover while standing in them...
I mean they are basically very short length trenches...
Prior to 1.0, graves also provided a minor exploit where enemies (and your drafted pawns) didn't like stopping on top of graves to shoot, so building graves could be used to discourage enemies from seeking cover. That is no longer the case in 1.0 thankfully.
I dunno if graves should be an appropriate means of preventing tree growth based cover tho.
I think it is itself an exploit since normally you would have to spend resources to floor over the ground to do it, and that would result in faster moving enemies. But graves don't cost resources, and don't really take alot of time to dig.
I consider it equivalent to having a "Clear all trees and bushes" zone, but all the work is front-loaded. I do enjoy the small benefits in reduced hauling time though. Plus, as mentioned, the intimidation factor :P
Tynan, you left some debug logging in CheckSpring().
Roofs are a pretty effective equivalent to graves in terms of preventing trees/fire spreading, even in 1.0. Trees aren't allowed under roofs and stuff doesn't tend to regrow without any light. Thus you don't need to floor and I'm not sure roof is actually slower than graves for this purpose.
I consider graves to be something like football helmet stickers, and mood hit from observing corpses when hauling them is pretty annoying so they're okay mitigation for that too.
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 03:56:03 AM
I'm seeking thoughts on research speed. How is it? Too fast? Too slow? How long does it take you to research what you need, and everything after that?
Edit: this was for the previous version, before research speed was made slower. Will test to see how it is now.
Research speed feels slow. In general this is good because it forces me to make do with what I have and rely on trade more. I delay or skip techs that are not essential though, like plate armor crafting, planting trees, drug tech, colored lights, solar panels, and sometimes even batteries.
Without a good researcher, it's far too slow though. Maybe research with poor skills should be faster, while with good skills it could be slower?
Despite the recent change to alpha beavers, I keep getting beavers on flat arid shrubland even when there are no or hardly any trees. Which means the whole map is mostly a tree free zone. Not saying this to complain, just saying that the event has hardly any impact unless it occurs very early on. That particular biome doesn't have enough wood for any serious wall or floor construction anyway, so the player will be building these with stone.
I like the current research speed a lot. Early tech (especially things you go for as tribal) should be really cheap, because your researcher isn't trained, you might not even have someone with passion or a high stat in intelligence and last but not least you might need your researcher to do other things.
This all slows down research early WAY WAY more than one would expect. Midgame I usually have a dedicated researcher who does nothing but sit at the research bench all the time, with burning passion and good value in intelligence. So I would say early research is easily 4x slower.
Then there is the 60% on the simple research bench.
Then there is the inability to build sterile tiles for a 10% bonus.
Then there is temperature which can be hard to influence as tribe (possible but desert = no wood for coolers, hot, for example).
This is all 100% based on my experience the last 1000 hours or so in Rimworld (not just 1.0) - but it holds true for 1.0. There is so many factors slowing down research early it feels like a 500 point research is 2500 or 5000, depending on conditions.
It's in the stove now.
[/quote]
Oh yeah that makes sense, thank you for letting me know. I fucking loved tea
ahahaha i just had faction B come to help my deep drill fight the bugs off while faction A's caravan was chilling around that spot
https://i.imgur.com/tLz27py.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/A21nR04.jpg
Edit: just got bonus goodwill points for those drop boys leaving my area, pretty sure i didnt deserve them
Crashland/Temperate forest/Large Hills/Cassandra/Hard.
6th of Septober, 5501.
My colony is going to be 2-years-old after this winter. My seven colonist are mostly happy now that we remade a lot of old ugly furniture and built the poker and billiards table. I underestimated how much cloth I was going to need because I didn't take into account flak clothing, but I'd say those pants and jackets were worth it, my colonists have not suffered permanent injuries yet.
Raids seem a lot more consistent in size and weaponry. And I can feel the difficulty slowly scaling up, the last four raids were outlanders (two with sappers and one dropped in the outskirts of my base) and lancers. The sappers don't seem to figure out how to approach my base. One of those sapper raids came from the south and tried to move to the north-east, but they were gunned down when they walked near my southern defenses, they did fight after the first couple of shots. (https://i.imgur.com/CaGNl3o.jpg) The other one came from the far east, and moved to the north, for some reason they went around a mountain and started mining some random rock just near the reach of my assault rifles, I pick them off and then they fled. (https://i.imgur.com/HWEjgcF.jpg)
The lancers, on the other hand, were scary because they outranged me. Once I noticed they were aiming at my pawns I tried to hide, wait until they came closer and then counter-attack, but instead of getting closer, they went to another side of the base. I was lucky to have a few mini-turrets in place to hold them off for a bit. I managed to send 3 colonists to engage in melee while the lancers attacked the turrets, my gunners supported from behind. (https://i.imgur.com/pmJ8Dde.jpg) It was the first time ever I attack mechanoids in melee and it was a success! I like how battles are more dynamic now.
Now, some thoughts:
- Research feels a bit fast, though I did get a colonist with 19 points in research during the first year, so that might be it. I'm almost done with all pre-multi-analyzer techs.
- While I adore being able to smooth mountain walls, the corners are frustrating, especially when installing wiring. I need to mine one tile just to put conduits in the corners, it looks ugly, it's inconvenient and I lose the +1 beauty from the smoothed wall.
- My pawns also got stuck in a loop, mining and repairing smoothed walls. This happened two builds ago (I think), and I haven't seen it since; though have not mined more smoothed walls recently either.
- Diplomacy is a bit of a problem. I'm at war with everyone except one tribal faction. I haven't been able to improve relations with the Outlanders, even more so after I captured one of them; the person crashed in a drop pod and I captured for recruitment, only to find out later that it was an Outlander. A warning before capturing an ally, and information about diplomacy in the learning helper would be useful.
- The re-growth of wild plants seems good. The map still looks alive even after winter and the occasional fire. I also find myself foraging more, for some reason.
- Raiders actually bring good weapons, including excellent quality with full hit points. I now have an arsenal of autopistols and shotguns because of it. With the more recent builds, their weapons seem a bit more varied in quality and hit points, I don't recall if that was tweaked. It's nice to get some valuable loot after winning a battle but getting decent guns feels easier than in earlier versions.
Quote from: Tass237 on July 09, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 10:19:39 AM
Tass, why the graves?
They prevent trees/bushes from growing in the kill-corridor and providing cover.
Also... Intimidation!
Don't graves also slow movespeed? Or was that also removed?
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 03:56:03 AM
I'm seeking thoughts on research speed. How is it? Too fast? Too slow? How long does it take you to research what you need, and everything after that?
Colony is pretty much self-sustaining with 2 pawns for research (15-16), I'm able to make research go 24/7 (one is Night Owl). Currently switched from Cass Hard to Randy Extreme to see how it goes.
In general i would be for more (logical) dependencies between researches that gives some more feeling of progress rather than just grind of research points (i.e Vitals monitor feels natural while researching)
My thoughts while being 'Industrial' level of technology :
- i would increase time for Geothermal since it's one of the safest and best energy producers. that would give some more reason to use other power generation buildings (also possible bug, raiders love to just skip them and head for main base so no reason to defend/care about them 90% of time)
- Either increase Medicine research points, or make Penoxiciline obligatory. In itself it's also a HUGE game-changer to be able to make it. Maybe rebuild research tree, to include 'sterile materials' before Microelectronics for obligatory Medicine. (locking Medicine it behind non-producable nurotamine does not much work, since it's possible to buy some (40-50) given colony is kind of keeping-it-together
- bionics research feels cheap-fast
- charge rifle too
- ship researches seems balanced but reactor feels huge with it's 8k points.
- half research feels like it's not needed to do, that's nice, since i'm not forced to research stuff that i won't be producing/needing (i.e Solar/Colored lights/all drugs/bows/multibarrel/firefoam/electric cremation)
If I'm going for end game by ship building it drags a lot (since by time of this decision i'm swimming in resources and could build ship in 1-2 days)
When starting colony speed feels OK, even little too fast if one was lucky with more pawns/resources and can afford multiple pawns researching simultaniously.
My idea would be to add more researches and lock some buildings/workbenches behind them, for more 'organic' progress rather than changing research times.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 09, 2018, 01:12:39 PM
Early tech (especially things you go for as tribal) should be really cheap, because your researcher isn't trained, you might not even have someone with passion or a high stat in intelligence and last but not least you might need your researcher to do other things.
I can't agree with that. Early tech should not be really cheap but imo it should reflect complexity of thing. Research should not be toned down to 'even idiot can invent electricity in one day' but make more real approach - no intelligent guy = slow technological development.
Quote from: gadjung on July 09, 2018, 02:05:39 PM
I can't agree with that. Early tech should not be really cheap but imo it should reflect complexity of thing. Research should not be toned down to 'even idiot can invent electricity in one day' but make more real approach - no intelligent guy = slow technological development.
I didn't want to explain my entire approach in the post, but I agree with you. Especially milestone research like electricity should be expensive and take a while. However smaller things like beds, clothing, brewing, devilstrand etc. should be easy to research. Generally Rimworld already went into the right direction with the changes in 1.0 to research.
Another QoL thing I wish for: auto-rebuild drop-pods. A button when selecting the pod-launcher to automatically put a blueprint for a new one down when drop-pod was used.
Researching to me feels awkward. I've tried it both on tribal and crash landed. After a sterile room, multi analyzer and advanced research bench are made the path just sky rockets. On crash landed it is worth it to not even build prerequisite things and just go straight for the highest tier weapon or power armor. It really feels like the advance bench needs toning down. Even on tribal you speed through them pretty fast. Granted you have to prioritize a bit more but you can still skip building lower tech items with the knowledge you will get higher tech stuff soon enough.
Research to me feels like the least involved skill in the game. Build a room set someone to never do anything besides that = research faster than items can be made. Here are my ideas on how it could be more interactive.
- Increase all research base values by a huge amount. Give tasks for the tribe to complete to get like a 5x reduction in cost.
Examples: want advanced furniture make 3 bed rolls and torches to unlock buff.
Electricity - Mine x amount of steel and components
Weapons - Create gun a gun with at least "good" quality.
Drugs - Bought/used x number of drugs.
Ship building - All linked to quests. Like mined resource using long range mineral scanner. Abandoned old base. Pillaged hostile tribe.
Tbh I just threw the examples in with like 5 minutes of forthought. But the main point I am trying to make is that increasing/decreasing research speed doesn't really change how it feels which is just a dry box to check to progress. Sort of like if growing wasn't actual crops on the map but just a bucket a pawn would sit at and start pulling out food from it.
Since you can control your wealth pretty easily you can control research need if you ever did make it too slow anyway. Meaning to me that it never matters to much to me if research is slow or fast. Besides the fact that it is basically a countdowner on when you can end the game.
First post. Long time ghost. Maybe 400 hours, 100 in 1.0.
Coming back this time, its a lot more of a game! Even simple things like the wildlife tab and UI stuff really "subtract" a lot of the "suck" (tasks and time one wishes one had spent doing laundry IRL instead) from the game.
I have done about 6 2-4 day runs on different versions of 1.0, all on hard. The doors change took a bit to adapt to. East said most of the things I wanted to say about that; basically, if doors are so much less the tool to make it through to the new turrets, what do you do?
My answer has been careful wealth management. I stay at 2-4 pawns and research. I keep minimum food on hand, frozen corpses preferred for winter larder. I caravan to trade often (leather, raid trash, whatever), as this always drops your wealth. I do not harvest materials ahead of time - sending that 12** miner out and getting all the components off the map seems like a good move. Wrong. No corners on buildings. I try and have 3-4 people in my base max. More then that, I keep in a caravan somewhere. The right people in a caravan feed themselves and can bring berries home each trip, and "hide" whatever wealth they are carrying. Workbenches are wealth. Wood only ones, when not in use I take them apart. I don't make metal ones unless I need to, and sometimes they wander around disassembled on some alpacas in a caravan. Floors do not add wealth and the difference between wood and stone wall wealth is tiny, so I do that earlier then I used to. Again, stone block sitting in a pile is wealth (danger!) so that gets micro'd. I farm less, because right after a big harvest your wealth spikes... I make 2 basic turrets and keep them uninstalled in a stockpile. I make sandbag positions for them on each side of my base. Because turrets everywhere add wealth but only defend one place, and leaving them assembled and trying to move them is about 5 times as much time. Once i have most if not all of the research I want for a final base, I think about maybe having more people or building "fancy" stuff.
Research does not add wealth, and as long as you keep it around 20k wealth and 3ish people, you can take the raids you get, so why hurry?
Why farm on your map, when you can send 3 guys to an easy event, do it, and stay on that map for 14 days and bring a mess of food home? (pemmican)
It's an answer. Not sure I like it. Seems like more "suck" and less story/decisions until your ready to build the doom fort for the spaceship.
If I could ask for anything, its more story. More events that are not raids yet still matter. Social stuff. Tribes doing nation building and trying to involve you in their messes. Mutants from the desert selling magic beans. Raiders who have a motive and act on it rather then just happen like the weather. I don't care if the "balance" is perfect. It's a SP game with mods and difficulty options and a dev console. Biomes certainly do not need to be equal or even viable. I am hoping that you have a collection of "story magic" and "Firefly" for us when you hit final release and this focus on minutia/raid stuff is just what we see because your testing it publicly.
Love the game. Thank you for it.
Quote from: ashaffee on July 09, 2018, 02:41:55 PM
Researching to me feels awkward. I've tried it both on tribal and crash landed. After a sterile room, multi analyzer and advanced research bench are made the path just sky rockets. On crash landed it is worth it to not even build prerequisite things and just go straight for the highest tier weapon or power armor. It really feels like the advance bench needs toning down.
I think what needs to happen is that less often used research (firefoam, mortars etc.) aka situational things should be cheaper and general things you always take should take more time. And maybe boost simple research bench to 75% to take the burden off the early game research, so you can make research in general slower.
And all late game research has gotten a lot faster to research, maybe a bit too fast now? It just doesn't feel right to me right now how early stuff compares to late game stuff. 1000 for trees (neolithic) compared to 2400 deep drilling or 3200 scanner - I think the old 7000 scanner was closer to balanced than currently.
Quote from: ashaffee on July 09, 2018, 02:41:55 PM
- Increase all research base values by a huge amount. Give tasks for the tribe to complete to get like a 5x reduction in cost.
Examples: want advanced furniture make 3 bed rolls and torches to unlock buff.
Electricity - Mine x amount of steel and components
Weapons - Create gun a gun with at least "good" quality.
Drugs - Bought/used x number of drugs.
Ship building - All linked to quests. Like mined resource using long range mineral scanner. Abandoned old base. Pillaged hostile tribe.
Tbh I just threw the examples in with like 5 minutes of forthought. But the main point I am trying to make is that increasing/decreasing research speed doesn't really change how it feels which is just a dry box to check to progress. Sort of like if growing wasn't actual crops on the map but just a bucket a pawn would sit at and start pulling out food from it.
Since you can control your wealth pretty easily you can control research need if you ever did make it too slow anyway. Meaning to me that it never matters to much to me if research is slow or fast. Besides the fact that it is basically a countdowner on when you can end the game.
Well, i sure hope this doesn't get implemented in this exact way. A research gated by things you have to buy, or craft of specific quality is way too random. Progression locked behind
random is BAD. I thought that locking research behind advanced components showed it off enough. Though some ideas can spring from these. Like maybe some kind of quests that award in research points towards certain projects. That ll justify making research overall a bit longer.
But honestly the biggest problem of all isn't even that research is too fast, but that researchers just don't have absolutely anything to do once major projects get done. They could use some kind end-game activity akin to crafting and sculpting, that could make colony life better, or just brought in some money occasionally. Just something for those egg-heads to do, not just go from being a scientist to being a janitor.
With how researching works, I felt most of it was in the right path as well as the speed. I don't feel like having to sit there and wait on research box to fill up for a stupid amount of time just to progress... sorry guys. Things like firefoam or hospital bed could get toned down a little and gear those points to other projects.
Quote from: Mihsan on July 09, 2018, 09:50:10 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 05:23:56 AMHumans can bite.
It just killed my best crafter in social fight. I might be biased right now, but 12.5 damage feels like too much for a bite - my pawn got killed before he was downed by pain. See attached picture.
Wait... Wtf? Why does a human bite do more than a lynx bite or a kick from most herbivores..? I had a llama as a kid that killed a coyote with a single kick to the ribs, now idk if he just rolled a nat 20, but that's way too strong for a human bite lmao. Hell, that's more damage than a Timber Wolf bite. I would knock it down to like 4 with a terrier XD
Rescued people is still leaving the colony with almost extreme malnutrition.
They begin moving as soon as they are able to walk, no matter how suicidal the action is because of other factors.
Is that intended?...
Oh and the Steam overlay that activates with shift+tab is not working in these and some previous builds, not sure if all of them. Already checked the properties of the game in the steam library and the overlay is activated...
Quote from: Scavenger on July 09, 2018, 03:18:48 PM
Wait... Wtf? Why does a human bite do more than a lynx bite or a kick from most herbivores..? I had a llama as a kid that killed a coyote with a single kick to the ribs, now idk if he just rolled a nat 20, but that's way too strong for a human bite lmao. Hell, that's more damage than a Timber Wolf bite. I would knock it down to like 4 with a terrier XD
I did some research on it - wolf and warg bites are pretty damn scary in 1.0. Warg bite dealt like 18 damage to a deer and a wolf's wasn't too much weaker, so human bite isn't stronger than a wolf one. But yeah its way waaaay too much. A solid punch from most people would be way more scary than a bite... And imo only wildmen should really use such an attack. Since they are... you know. Wild.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 09, 2018, 03:22:19 PM
Oh and the Steam overlay that activates with shift+tab is not working in these and some previous builds, not sure if all of them. Already checked the properties of the game in the steam library and the overlay is activated...
Working fine here, and has throughout all of these builds.
How are you launching the game? You need to use the steam interface:
1. click play button on any of the in-steam screens.
2. launch via the steam installed desktop shortcut
3. right click on game in library and left click on "Rimworld 64 bit" or "Play game"
If for instance, you are just setting a short cut to the rimworld 64 exe, that will not work.
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 09, 2018, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 09, 2018, 03:22:19 PM
Oh and the Steam overlay that activates with shift+tab is not working in these and some previous builds, not sure if all of them. Already checked the properties of the game in the steam library and the overlay is activated...
Working fine here, and has throughout all of these builds.
It's working fine on my end as well.
Also:
(https://i.imgur.com/AcD6pPo.png)
Are these two supposed to appear together? I know it's a net positive, but it seems a bit contradictory.
Quote from: ashaffee on July 09, 2018, 02:41:55 PM
Examples: want advanced furniture make 3 bed rolls and torches to unlock buff.
Electricity - Mine x amount of steel and components
Weapons - Create gun a gun with at least "good" quality.
Drugs - Bought/used x number of drugs.
Instead of that i think that 'disassembling' for some EXTRA research points would be better, but would need rather big overhaul in how research goes.
Quote
I think what needs to happen is that less often used research (firefoam, mortars etc.) aka situational things should be cheaper and general things you always take should take more time
Mortars are not situational, but i would say that this stuff is already cheap (though not saying it should be pricier).
Full recap:
- drug related : seems well balanced, need some dependencies between
- Tree sowing + cocoa : too much. it's not rocket science and takes more than 'AI Persuasion' or going from wooden swords to shotguns
- devilstrand: ok. would add extra research for processing
- carpets: ok
- beer: ok
- complex furniture: ok
- passive cooler: ok, would add as dependency for 'air conditioning'
- stone cutting: ok, would add research for electric powered station
- complex clothing: ok
- pemmican: ok, could lower a little even
- smithing further path: ok
- machning : to low. min. 1000+
- electricity : to low. min 1500+ (this and machining gives big boost to colony with possibilities that opens)
- auto-door : ok
- battery : to low. min 1000 (it's hard, it's important in some plays, and also provides quite leap in how colonies function)
- air conditioning : to low. 800-1000? it's 100points more than passive cooler.
- gunsmithing branch feels ok, but starting point for turrets is dirty cheap. i would reverse it more to have 'Gun Turrets - 2000/3000' and subsequent ones ~500-700. First it would allow for more diverse usage of them, second it's just the same turret but different gun. It should be hard to invent it on the first time (self targeting turret) and the next research should be added value, not reinventing from scratch. Also would make a choice to players, whether they want/need to postpone other research to make-up for lack of shooting capable pawns or not.
- prostethics : ok, but too simple, would split for 'limbs - 200/300' and 'internal bodyparts 500/600'. 'internal bodyparts' could be locked behind 'sterile materials' for more depth and complexity
- nutrient paste and packaged meal : ok
- electric smelting: ok, but tbh. who uses that as an efficient way of obtaining steel ? it feels like wasted research points, same as below
- electric cremation: 500 wasted points, that one researches out of boredom/nothing else to do.
- colored lights : ok
- geothermal : to low. it's complex, it's important, it's free energy, 2 of them can provide energy for medium sized colony with reserve. it hurts to write but i would put it with 3500-4000, since game just get's a lot easier with them.
- waterproof conduit : ok
- solar panel: for 2x more i can have 3,6k energy 24/12 - why bother now ?
- biofuel: ok, since mining everything around with deep drill have it's risk, it's reasonable for researching this to get chemfuel
- flak/smoke belts: ok
- mortars: ok
- medicine: ok but would add more dependencies for non-direct increase of required research points
- firefoam: ok, rarely researched by me. prefer stone walls and good anti-fire layout
- moisture pump : ok
- transport pod : ok, would add biofuel refining as required
- shield belt: to low. 2000 maybe ? or 1500 with smoke belt as prerequisite
- tube television : would put it tier lower maybe (before microelectronics), with little bit higher research cost (1200) there would be another ~early/mid-game choice to make
- sterile materials: ok, could be tier lower (before microelectronics), would add decision whether to buy new doctor or make better hospital floor, since by the time one gets to this, colony either goes well without this, or will collapse regardless.
- hospital bed: little to much,
- vitals : ok, even could be more (as compensation for cheaper hospital bed)
- bionics: too cheap, 2000 ?, or separate into limbs/internal organs same as proposed for prosthetics
- charge rifle : too cheap
- everything else from 'multianalyzer' branch : ok
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 03:27:02 PM
Quote from: Scavenger on July 09, 2018, 03:18:48 PM
Wait... Wtf? Why does a human bite do more than a lynx bite or a kick from most herbivores..? I had a llama as a kid that killed a coyote with a single kick to the ribs, now idk if he just rolled a nat 20, but that's way too strong for a human bite lmao. Hell, that's more damage than a Timber Wolf bite. I would knock it down to like 4 with a terrier XD
I did some research on it - wolf and warg bites are pretty damn scary in 1.0. Warg bite dealt like 18 damage to a deer and a wolf's wasn't too much weaker, so human bite isn't stronger than a wolf one. But yeah its way waaaay too much. A solid punch from most people would be way more scary than a bite... And imo only wildmen should really use such an attack. Since they are... you know. Wild.
I am looking at the numbers listed on the wiki, which is a Lynx-9, Wolf-11, Warg-12, Cougar-15. I don't know if they are outdated or something, but a bit of research yeilds a LOT of different results, but most common says a human has a average bite force of 160 psi
Human 160
Rottweiler 328
Cougar 350
Gray Wolf 406
Mastiff 556 (I have an old English mastiff, and her head is massive.. She weighs 180 lbs)
Bengal Tiger 1,050
Hyena 1,100
Polar bear/ Grizzly Bear 1,230/1,250
Jaguar(Panther?) 2,000
"Panther" seems to refer to different leopards, jaguars, or mountain lions depending where you live. Seeing as these are black, must be a Jaguar or Leopard. Either way, I am surprised panther seems to have identical stats to the cougar with such a large difference.
Due to the multi hit effect a scyther hit on the torso managed to amputate the waist. The colonist is ok with this but you should probably make the waist also not targetable for the slash effect.
btw. why everything has now Shooting Accuracy stat ? even potatoes, helmets and granite chunks.
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 09, 2018, 03:31:32 PM
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 09, 2018, 03:22:19 PM
Oh and the Steam overlay that activates with shift+tab is not working in these and some previous builds, not sure if all of them. Already checked the properties of the game in the steam library and the overlay is activated...
Working fine here, and has throughout all of these builds.
How are you launching the game? You need to use the steam interface:
1. click play button on any of the in-steam screens.
2. launch via the steam installed desktop shortcut
3. right click on game in library and left click on "Rimworld 64 bit" or "Play game"
If for instance, you are just setting a short cut to the rimworld 64 exe, that will not work.
Oh, that is exactly what i was doing.
Thanks for the info.
Quote from: ashaffee on July 09, 2018, 02:41:55 PM
On crash landed it is worth it to not even build prerequisite things and just go straight for the highest tier weapon or power armor.
The problem here is that mid-tier stuff would be a waste of resources. As for now, there is simply no difference between stuff raiders and traders would bring you and mid-tier stuff you can make. Make decent leather clothes, pick any decent quality weapon and a flak vest from a raider and you are set almost as good as possible. All intermediate researches are nothing more than a pre-requisite for those ones that actually can make some difference. All mid-game crafting is primarily for money and training.
Also, there is no such thing as "highest tier weapon" in the current game. A medieval spear is the best you can get for melee, and "top-tier" charge rifle is only situationally better than junk-tier machine pistol.
-- Root vs the raccoon
The raccoon expired.
Root bit the raccoon.
The raccoon attempted to chomp Root, but the swing went wide.
Root tore the raccoon.
"swing" shouldnt be used to describe a "chomp"
I just went to rescue someone on a cold biome and found her with normal shirt and pants.
She waited there several days without issue but as soon as i arrive the hypothermia starts taking effect.
They should spawn with at least a parka or something...
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 05:23:56 AMReduce scyther speed slightly.
My guy, you really do care.
Quote from: gadjung on July 09, 2018, 04:14:14 PM
- machning : to low. min. 1000+
- electricity : to low. min 1500+ (this and machining gives big boost to colony with possibilities that opens)
- auto-door : ok
- battery : to low. min 1000 (it's hard, it's important in some plays, and also provides quite leap in how colonies function)
- air conditioning : to low. 800-1000? it's 100points more than passive cooler.
Yeah this is not enough shifted IMO. I think electricity should be like 2-3k, then machining, battery and air conditioning can stay cheap, because they all depend on electricity. It is probably much easier to balance the game around these big gates than everything being close in research points.
It would also create a good interest curve. Long waits for the next tech level where you can expand the base, get resources, do missions etc. and rebuilding and upgrading once the next tech level is reached with constant new unlocks until you hit the next "gate".
Eh, I don't really see a need to mess with research points. Not everyone starts with an industrious nerdy guy or plays new arrivals, in which case it's very slow. I personally already feel the need to do this if I want to embark with colonists->turrets rather than mercenery types.
Thats also true. If you don't have one, or aren't lucky enough for storyteller to toss you one - you can get real stuck on research.
Hi. First post here, I'm a bit confused about DPS figures.
I just started a new game, Naked Brutality on a Boreal Forest Map. Initial Colonist has brawler so I crafted her a wooden club, and then as soon as I'd mined my first steel, a steel club.
I looked at the stats on the two weapons:
Wooden Club:
Tool: Handle (Poke)
8.1 Damage
2.00 seconds per attack
Tool: Head (blunt)
12.6 Damage
2.00 seconds per attack
Final Value: 5.42
Steel Club:
Tool: Handle (Poke)
9 Damage
2.00 seconds per attack
Tool: Head (blunt)
14 Damage
2.00 seconds per attack
Final Value: 4.52
Why is the final DPS figure for the wooden club higher when the individual attacks on the steel club are higher?
Research is frankly not a strong point of this game.
It must be hard to balance, because the situation changes quite a bit during the game.
At first, you are using a primitive research bench in the dark in a cave, high penalties, with a non-specialist pawn whose labor is valuable; high opportunity cost to research, you could be doing something vital to survival instead.
But relatively soon thereafter, you are going to have a specialist pawn in a specialized, bonus giving environment, who can research full time with a low opportunity cost. And you can feed him pretty easily. And he may still be useful for defense, so he's good to have around.
Some aspects of early game research might be fun, but late game research is awkward. I often research many tiers of weapon at once, before I begin the process of manufacturing them.
Research: low opportunity cost, as described above.
Making guns: high opportunity cost, master crafters are harder to find than research slaves. You could be making clothes or items to sell. Also they need their manipulation stat intact, unlike researchers.
Solution: Research several tiers at once, make good stuff that will last a long time, especially as item condition no longer matters as much. Build it once, build it to last.
This is doubly true in 1.0 as you will capture many perfectly functional low tech firearms from enemies... no need to make new ones with perfect durability. In earlier betas, the weapon system was much more complicated, as damaged guns from raiders were less effective.
When research has a high opportunity cost, it's more of a decision; weigh the tradeoffs between researching or doing some other labor.
By the mid game though, it's just a thing that happens passively in the background, not much gameplay involved. And... that's what you're working towards. You want to get a research slave set up ASAP... to trivialize the research mechanic.
Also, maybe it's just me, but if you are going to code little additions into the game, they should be used. Right now the research trees put many items behind little stub research paths. You'd only research them if you were playing a mode where you don't really care about winning.
I preferred a more conventional tech tree, in earlier betas, where you had to go through pre-reqs to get important techs. It's not realistic, but it gives steady progress and it brings interesting items into the game. Items you won't see otherwise.
I won't go into suggestions because that's theorycraft, but basically, a conventional tech tree like in other games, taking into account the MASSIVE disparity between early and late game research efficiency.
I've been playing quite a bit, and without using mods, I am unable to sell any meals to anyone, even when it says the trader will buy them.
Quote from: Boboid on July 09, 2018, 03:21:00 AM
The resurrector serum says "Outcomes are better when the mechanites are administered to a fresher body. Well-preserved bodies can be resurrected , even long after death".
You can resurrect bodies so long as they're merely Rotten, not Dessicated.
Depending on the environment that the corpse is left in it can last a surprising amount of time in the Rotten state. And they won't rot at all if frozen.
I'm not totally sure what would happen if you buried someone in a sarcophagus in a freezer, I -think- the game handles it correctly and the corpse is preserved but I haven't tested it personally. I have vague memories of digging up graves in polar environments and discovering they were still fresh.
Geez, this thread moves so quickly. Anyway, thank you for the clarification. After reading about Sapper, I tried to revive an old colonist but unfortunately she was already desiccated. Next time I will try the sarcophagus in a freezer and see if it works.
Another issue regarding hypothermia is that when a pawn is unable to walk, he just wont put on a parka as he should. I need to build a room, and make sure the inside is warm so he can survive.
Just as we have an option to strip them, can we have an option to clothe them while unconsious?
Quote from: Greep on July 09, 2018, 05:01:38 PM
Eh, I don't really see a need to mess with research points. Not everyone starts with an industrious nerdy guy or plays new arrivals, in which case it's very slow. I personally already feel the need to do this if I want to embark with colonists->turrets rather than mercenery types.
Just as part of my ongoing ridiculous wishlist:
I'd love to see the possibility of a Research Table randomly catching fire or disintegrating during research.
Great discoveries aren't without some element of risk. Just ask Marie Curie about that one.
Yeah, why not. 250 steel and 10 component cost, pfe, who cares. Maybe even have it evaporate along with Multi-Analyzer. Or even better - have it blow up like a mortar shell on a critical failed dice roll. Seriously, aren't "Zzzt" events you can't counter with anything at all enough?
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 05:54:20 PM
Yeah, why not. 250 steel and 10 component cost, pfe, who cares. Maybe even have it evaporate along with Multi-Analyzer. Or even better - have it blow up like a mortar shell on a critical failed dice roll. Seriously, aren't "Zzzt" events you can't counter with anything at all enough?
Perhaps a fixed recharge cost per time spent, like fueled stoves or turrets.
Put coffee in your game and require it as upkeep for tier 2+ techs. Ask any mathematician, nothing gets done without coffee!
"Made smelting slag yield more steel."
Before this patch, smelting slag yielded 10 steel right? It still yields 10 steel right now.
https://imgur.com/a/Ky2u5UH
Odd behavior from "predator" pets. Midnight was hungry so she decided to go out and hunt an ibex. Ibex becomes maddened and strikes back, Midnight flees (?) instead of finishing off her meal. The ibex are now manhunter status and heads towards the colony. I found it a bit odd/funny that predators flee from their prey after it gives them a couple of bruises. lol.
Also, I've already mentioned this twice before but never got a response. My last raid was day 157, it's now day 311. I've continued to play this save in hopes that I'd eventually get a raid with the new updates, but so far no luck. I can understand the friendly/neutral factions not attacking, but there's no reason the pirates haven't come to pillage my booty after 154 days. Imo, this should be looked into because it's quite game breaking for raids from pirates to cease after you've become friendly/neutral with the other factions. This save file feels so stagnant and boring now, knowing I don't have to worry about raids. I've started several other save files since I've started having issues but I continue to come back and check on this colony after every patch just to see if the raids were "fixed". I have no idea if it's broken, but it sure feels like it to me.
So here's a funny story for you. I started playing 1.0 pretty much when the dev first dropped. Lots of things looked cool, excited to see where these changes went and how they influenced gameplay, but after a couple quadrums I noticed something - the game was definitely easier than I remembered. Raids were smaller, I didn't suffer a single permanent injury for 3 years (though a lot of this is due to the new armour system which I LOVE), and generally I was starting to lose interest due to lack of challenge.
Then I noticed I misunderstood the new difficulty names and was playing on a lower level than I was used to. Guess I play Rough so often I just assumed it was the medium one!
Anyway, W.R.T. more specific things with this build;
-New river stuff is cool, they now feel like more than just obstacles.
-More developed lategame is a big plus, no longer are all useful techs done in three years, have yet to launch ship so can't comment on the endgame rush
-I already mentioned the new armour system, the whole "fewer but more significant wounds" is interesting, but what I really like is the new dimension it adds to weapon choices. Once, when those psychotic non-fleeing tribal sappers were charging, I put my only power armour on my Tough colonist and put her in the front as a decoy - then, when they were all over her, had a bunch others open fire with shotguns and machine pistols. None of those weapons had any chance of penetrating her armour and she got out with a few bruises while the raiders were shot to pieces.
- I'm a little iffy with the new art TBH. It's not that it's bad, so much as that a lot of it doesn't fit well with existing graphics. Even just adding a few graphics that are sort of inbetween the old and the new in style would do a lot to bridge the gap. Right now the difference is kind of glaring tbh.
- Shooting in melee changes threw me a bit. When I started 1.0 it was still a thing, and now the raiders could do it too. Had some serious trouble meleeing a early raider with my brawler (though that *may* have also been due to said raider's surprisingly good armour, Tough trait AND Painstopper :o ). Then point blank shooting went away, and predator attacks got much harder. I would actually quite like this IF undrafted pawns reacted instantly (shooting or running) rather than the second or two delay we seem to have at the moment. That's probably the one change I'd like the most at the moment; with ranged pawns now doing worse in melee there needs to be better reactions to the threat of melee.
- (Slightly theorising, but based on past experiences) Just saw that you nerfed the greatbow a fair bit, kudos for that. That damn thing was too out of league with the other neolithic ranged weapons. I'd like to see a bit more rebalancing with pre-gun ranged weapons, currently there isn't the same level of "what's the best for this situation" decision making you get with all the other weapon classes (guns, melee, grenades, spacer). Making the greatbow no longer be a bolt-action rifle in disguise is a step in the right direction IMO
That's about all that springs to mind at the moment. There's obviously a bunch of other changes/new stuff / rebalancing I didn't mention for brevity's sake, but in general I am a big fan of 95% of this update, this'll be a hell of a game when it's finally done :)
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 05:54:20 PM
Yeah, why not. 250 steel and 10 component cost, pfe, who cares. Maybe even have it evaporate along with Multi-Analyzer. Or even better - have it blow up like a mortar shell on a critical failed dice roll. Seriously, aren't "Zzzt" events you can't counter with anything at all enough?
Not for me. :)
I'm only half-kidding with that suggestion, but in truth - by the time I've ever had Advanced Research Benches, steel and components are generally not in anything near a short supply.
Live a little, Madman666. :)
Back to our regularly scheduled program.
Quote from: Greep on July 09, 2018, 05:01:38 PM
Eh, I don't really see a need to mess with research points. Not everyone starts with an industrious nerdy guy or plays new arrivals, in which case it's very slow. I personally already feel the need to do this if I want to embark with colonists->turrets rather than mercenery types.
Well, that was the whole point. I said that early on research is really slow and everything should be cheap, except for the big advancement (aka electricity). Later research can be more expensive than right now, because by then you have all kinds of bonuses stacked up.
Electricity maybe. In any case, I was about to write a rant n research but I think we're getting a bit off topic, this sounds like it's own suggestion thread at that point xD
Anyways, started over my boreal mountain base as a boreal caves base for a variety of reasons. One thing I noticed is that a lot of cave starts don't really have much caves. I think most people go into a specific map type with a specific strategy in mind, so this is a little disappointing having to pick some colonists that aren't braindead only to find you want to reroll the map. Less bad than finding out your map has a hidden pocket midway into the game though. I ended up just getting a little less picky with starting colonists, and ended up settling on my third map which had a decent cave network.
Another thing I noticed is that pretty much my all encompassing strategy for killboxyness is to get allied asap and start pumping in steel and only steel. I used to take maybe a psychic lance or a doosmday rocket, maybe a sniper rifle, but none of that now really. That's one pitfall to adding steel maintenance of turrets.
Quote from: Greep on July 09, 2018, 07:37:13 PM
Electricity maybe. In any case, I was about to write a rant n research but I think we're getting a bit off topic, this sounds like it's own suggestion thread at that point xD
Tynan asked specifically for research experiences. My experience was that early game you "have to" rush for the big advancements just to get all the bonuses. Detours to things you would like to have, but aren't as important (Devilstrand, Long Blades, Smithing, Recurve/Long Bow, Plate Armor, Tree Sowing) are a waste, because for just one or two of those you might as well get Electricity.
That's why I think Electricity should be much more expensive and the other research cheaper. This way you actually have a choice: Get all the tiny research projects first OR rush for the big jump in tech OR pick the few tiny research projects you need most, then go for the big one.
Right now it's pretty stupid to do anything but rush the "big" one, because it actually isn't big at all.
I'm on year 10 of my colony with over 30 pawns, and I can officially say I have begun cheating to survive mechanoids in 1.0
Psychic ship landed just outside my defensive line at the front of my base (Ideal, right?) which consisted of a long sandbag and granite wall line designed to act as the main ring for my defenders from which I could pivot all other defensive measures around. I had several sniper and autocannon turrets and 6 EMP mortars.
6 well trained melee fighters in good-legendary power armour with excellent-legendary plasteel longswords. Everyone else was fully kitted out in either full flak gear or with dusters made out of some kind of exotic material like thrumbo fur which gave them superior armour to flak. Excellent assault rifles were abound, had a legendary mini-gun and several lances on top of a nice collection of masterwork sniper rifles.
I didn't stand a chance at all.
I spent 3 hours reloading the fight over and over again, changing everything about the fight from positions to weapon loadouts. I threw everything I had at them right off the hop, I retreated into the very center of my base and tried to let the turrets whittle them down. I threw every dog and chicken I had at them. Nothing.
I just gave up after a while when I realized I wasn't enjoying myself anymore. Centipedes are anti-fun, and fighting 14 of them on top of 20 lances and 20 scythers is just cancer on wheels. So I just used the console to kill every centipede on the map at spawn and had myself a great shootout with the scythers and lancers. Bunch of turrets got destroyed, two people died and I lost a heap of arms and legs, but it was a fun fight.
Mortars suck. Even with 6 of them shooting EMPs I was very lucky if even 1/4 of the mechanoids got stunned at the start of the fight. Once adaption kicked in I just took them off the guns entirely, because trying to hit them with high explosive shells is a joke and they do no meaningful damage either way.
Turrets evaporate under lancer fire and centipede combined fire, to the point that they aren't even a speed bump in their advance.
I have 2 legendary charge rifles and I'd trade them in for 2 excellent assault rifles any day. Their range is too low to be of any use and their damage isn't meaningful enough to try and force an entire fight to work around them. It's not like they could do anything anyways since a scyther would just tank their first burst and be in melee range right after.
Centipedes are just too tanky and too destructive. They absorb a huge amount of damage and blow up a huge amount of shit. Why don't we split them up like we did with the scyther/lancer? Can we have a tanky centipede with a boring ol' mini-gun on its noggin and then have something smaller and less tanky setting shit on fire and shooting laser blasts all over the place? It'd really do a lot to help, I think. At least then I could have the option of focus firing high threat targets.
Overall I'd say killboxes are less of a requirement to get through the early stages of the game, but if this is going to be near the final balance we'll see in 1.0 official then I see no alternative but to keep building them. I would rather be outnumbered 10 to 1 by raiders, or a 100 to 1 by tribals than have to fight an equal force of centipedes.
Some other things that are pissing me off on year 10 are resource shortages. Steel is a constant struggle and plasteen can now only be acquired through trading or the EXTREMELY rare resource lump quests. Mechanoids aren't even a good source of it anymore which removes the reward for beating them lol.
Speaking of trading, I used to maintain a year-round trade caravan that would go around fulfilling trade requests and doing faction missions, but with the latest updates this has pretty much ground to a halt. I haven't had a faction mission in 3 years and I am lucky to get a trade request every 1 year, and when I do get them they are almost always of no value to me. To top it off the prices and selection aren't much better when I take the effort to go to the towns in the first place so I have really run out of reasons to justify a never ending caravan, which is a shame because it was where I was deriving the most enjoyment from the game.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 09, 2018, 07:52:43 PM
Quote from: Greep on July 09, 2018, 07:37:13 PM
Electricity maybe. In any case, I was about to write a rant n research but I think we're getting a bit off topic, this sounds like it's own suggestion thread at that point xD
Tynan asked specifically for research experiences. My experience was that early game you "have to" rush for the big advancements just to get all the bonuses. Detours to things you would like to have, but aren't as important (Devilstrand, Long Blades, Smithing, Recurve/Long Bow, Plate Armor, Tree Sowing) are a waste, because for just one or two of those you might as well get Electricity.
That's why I think Electricity should be much more expensive and the other research cheaper. This way you actually have a choice: Get all the tiny research projects first OR rush for the big jump in tech OR pick the few tiny research projects you need most, then go for the big one.
Right now it's pretty stupid to do anything but rush the "big" one, because it actually isn't big at all.
For a tibal start I think you are right. It's weird that one can instantly research electricity. There should be some form of prerequirements.
In general I think research is going in the right direction. Like you said, some of the key-researches could be a bit more important to ffel more impactful, but I wouldn't increase that too much. On harder difficulties you can't research that much because of less colonists, more death/injuries and others, so it shouldn't be that much harder.
A small thing: I would like to see the researches that require the high-tech-bench move more to the right (x + 1), so they are behind microelectronics. That would make the dependecy a bit clearer. (And also reduces the huuuuuge gap to the final charge weapons a bit.)
In my current naked survival run I am really slow with research. Part of it because I did focus on other things of cause, but mainly because I had no colonists for research. They all had no passion, low skill and died quickly and the colonists that were alive needed to do other more important stuff. I got my first (and only) colonist with int passion on day 109 and before that I only had researched a few really needed things like power and machining.
Edit to hop on the topics of the previous post:
I agree with the trade stuff: While I wrote for the patch before that, that I got way to many offers, I now got only one world event in a year or even longer. Could just be back luck, but I think this is too rare.
With centipedes I didn't have problems at all. The times I fought them, my melee just engaged and tanked the centis while the shooters focus on scythers and lancers first and then help with the centipedes. They didn't even do much to the melee guy, only a few bruises (no power armor, just duster and flak and the good ol' bowler hat).
Ah if he asked for it then, I was about to say that the biggest issue is just the early game crunch for defense. Unless you're using animals, deadfalls, or extreme tactics, you've got to have some sort of way to even up the odds against against the raiders because they outnunber you very quickly. The first raid is a dude, the second raid already outnumbers you, and that third is just crushing.
Without research, you're likely fighting like 7 guys with 4 colonists with T-shirts, jeans and whatever you picked up from raiders which is like a few pistols. So you can go for turrets, heavy armor, or precision rifling, and all of these require a high level dedicated researcher, which I don't like. It used to be this was unnecessary because I think there was just one research called "guns" and autoturrets was also a single cheap research.
Then that changed with the idea that you had a longer progression, because people just researched guns and went specifically for assault rifles immediately. Unfortunately, now you research guns, and have nothing worth building because the initial stuff is still expensive, doesn't give you an edge which you need, and gets almost immediately outclassed. Same with flak gear, you build a few bits of armor which simply will not cut it against the odds.
So things like increasing the cost of machining, or anything on the early offensive line, just means wanting to embark with an even more dedication research guy ::) I think this could be alleviated by simply making the early game even easier raid points wise and further reducing the cost to build early game gear, giving your colony a whole 2 months or so to prepare yourself and have things like smgs cost like 30 metal and a component, but some may not like that.
Now that you introduced craftable chocolate, and considering that nobody ever makes lavish meals and nobody seems to be planting coa-ca trees atm, wouldn't it be a good idea to make it so that a lavish meal includes just one piece of chocolate and .25 veg and .25 meat! A dessert with the meal would make the colonists very happy and certainly lavish!
Quote from: Jstank on July 09, 2018, 09:37:04 PM
Now that you introduced craftable chocolate, and considering that nobody ever makes lavish meals and nobody seems to be planting coa-ca trees atm, wouldn't it be a good idea to make it so that a lavish meal includes just one piece of chocolate and .25 veg and .25 meat! A dessert with the meal would make the colonists very happy and certainly lavish!
That would make it even worse to cook lavish meals. I think adding a small value of th food recreation type to lavish meals would be good.
I mean the idea with the dessert is quite nice, but needing chocolate makes it even harder to craft and even less worth imo.
Quote from: Greep on July 09, 2018, 09:33:09 PM
Without research, you're likely fighting like 7 guys with 4 colonists with T-shirts, jeans and whatever you picked up from raiders which is like a few pistols. So you can go for turrets, heavy armor, or precision rifling, and all of these require a high level dedicated researcher, which I don't like. It used to be this was unnecessary because I think there was just one research called "guns" and autoturrets was also a single cheap research.
You don't really need research to fight raids. Get a few sandbags or even stones and a good position for fighting with your weapons against the enemies weapons and it should be fine. And if you think raid sizes are too large, you can also lower the difficulty. Raid size is a large part of what difficulties are.
In my current game I'm 2.5 years in and I haven't even researched guns or armor. Weapons and stuff from raiders and quests work well enough and I can focus on other researches or just use the time to build, plant and craft. It's also part of the fun for me to equip my colonists with what the game provides and make the best out of it, instead of just crating the same perfect set for everyone.
I'm not complaining. I'm just saying, if you make early research harder, I'm just going to research harder ::) Sure I could lower the difficulty, but the difficulty works out nicely after that initial hump and you have something the raiders don't have.
Quote from: Lanilor on July 09, 2018, 09:50:18 PM
And if you think raid sizes are too large
You're asking me to do it... you're ASKING ME TO DO IT.
Note, this wasn't on extreme (very hard).
Double Note, that isn't rich soil, that's just
the shadow of the drop-pods.
(https://i.imgur.com/nyA1i6H.jpg?1)
~200 Scythers. Instant game over.
Might be related to the 5,5mio colony wealth
Quote from: Greep on July 09, 2018, 09:52:45 PM
I'm not complaining. I'm just saying, if you make early research harder, I'm just going to research harder
Nobody said you were complaining. That is a valid point and important when balancing the research. making something more expancive doesn't make it balanced. That's already too common in rimworld mods.
I think the costs are ok in general. Some minor researches could be a bit cheaper. Like I feel devilstrand isn't really worth researching anymore. I haven't tested it, but it works fine without. Also mortars are really weird since I usually get enough from sieges to not need to research mortars at all. Same with the TV researches. There will always be a quest, an ancient danger or a trader that has one megascreen TV, so when I could research the cheap TVs it isn't needed anymore.
I would like to see more complexity, but I think the focus of rimworld isn't that much on research to invest much in it. Like the research boost in Civ 6 was a nice idea but turned out too much micro grinding for objectives.
I'm currently at a point where I need many components and crafting them still takes a lot time. It maybe could be a bit faster, but not much.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 09, 2018, 10:09:20 PM
You're asking me to do it... you're ASKING ME TO DO IT.
I have no idea how that is useful here but I guess you just wanted to show off. But well, that should be moderators problem ...
Blegh, trade requests can get a bit hardcore if they ask for raw materials. I want that serum sooo much, but there's no way I'm getting that in year 1 xD
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Lanilor on July 09, 2018, 09:50:18 PM
Quote from: Jstank on July 09, 2018, 09:37:04 PM
Now that you introduced craftable chocolate, and considering that nobody ever makes lavish meals and nobody seems to be planting coa-ca trees atm, wouldn't it be a good idea to make it so that a lavish meal includes just one piece of chocolate and .25 veg and .25 meat! A dessert with the meal would make the colonists very happy and certainly lavish!
That would make it even worse to cook lavish meals. I think adding a small value of th food recreation type to lavish meals would be good.
I mean the idea with the dessert is quite nice, but needing chocolate makes it even harder to craft and even less worth atm. At any rate, it would be a pretty simple mod to replace the recipe. I'm sure someone will think of it! ;)
Honestly, I don't think there is very much use for either chocolate or lavish meals right now. Lavish meals are too wasteful for the benefit and chocolate is barely worth keeping around. Combining them would make them both useful. I could be wrong, but I don't think many people go for lavish meals. They stick with fine meals because it costs twice as much. However, if all you have to do is mix a little chocolate into your meals to make them lavish, then it would be worth actually going for the lavish meals as a sustainable end-game meal choice, as it should be.
Lavish/chocolate can be useful if you want to make a separate freezer with a forbidden door just for mood crises. Chocolate should really be considered a drug, though. it's not but at least it would have a useful management in vanilla.
I also like the idea of making chocolate part of a lavish meal. Or beer!
With hunting being the only meat source, even a well to do colony is hard to keep in Fine Meals. So yeah, I've never made Lavish except to check the buff. Reducing cost of a lavish meal would also make me consider it more. Maybe .8 total nutrition ingredients?
Normally, if a pawn is quite upset, it's from a stack of things like tired+hungry+psychic drone. Another +5 mood going from fine to lavish doesn't help if it means I have to make simple meals the next day.
It feels a little strange, Late game has changed easily. In the past, the Dropford attack was very difficult and happened very often. Now, however, only a few troops have begun to drop, and centipede is especially rare when managing property. I got the impression that the last space ship Turn on attack was easy. Of course, this also requires the opinions of others. In the past, centipede was very difficult and difficult. But they disappeared and the difficulty dropped a lot.
Speaking of scyther, they are weak. Of course, alone. They are stronger when combined with other Lancer and centipede. They assist each other well, When fitghting them, the approaching centipede emits a firepower. The EMP has to choose where to throw the enemies apart from the near(scyther) or far(lancer)
But scyther alone falls and falls. If they hit the EMP, they are even weaker and it is easy to get distance because of weapon stop power.
The Lancer sometimes thinks it is the right balance, except for the lucky head shot. (Brain destruction)
However, when it is a small number, it is very weak against melee attack. So the Lancer needs support from scyther.
So it is scary to come in combination with the mechanoid. Of course, centipede alone is strong against its tremendous HP. Since the point nerf of the mechanoid, it is easy for mechanocides not to come in combination.
Also, power armor enemies feel very few. It was very difficult to wear a power armor enemy before. They are less than before.Maybe it's because of the addition of new armor. There is a place to consume the appropriate points, so the storyteller seems to send less power armor.
The Sniper Turret I personally would like to enjoy and test more, but I was impressed that it is very powerful now.
The speed of research I feel very fast. I had never thought that my research was slow as I was doing a rim world. If it is slow, just increase one more person. If the game is destroyed due to the lack of research, the tribal people can not play the game. If you become accustomed to playing tribal people, Even if it is delayed a little, it does not matter much.
In Rim World, only time and researchers are needed. This is a very low condition. Research tables are also very cheap. I think research is fast unless you need resources or special things to study like any other game.
I had an escape pod person get up, tend herself, and start to leave the map before my pawn could even walk over to her (I drafted them immediately).
Was kinda neat, though!
I have read so much, but I may be missing this and do not want to comment before I know exactly how traps are suppose to work today. Were they readjusted? Trap event is happening for me today, 2 pawns in 2 days hit my traps. I am okay with this if it is suppose to be that way. In fact I am quite happy about it. If that is the case can our friendly traders hit the traps once again?
One of my pawns also hit a trap. There was a note about traps being changed again, but was left vague.
Quote from: Greep on July 10, 2018, 12:30:32 AM
One of my pawns also hit a trap. There was a note about traps being changed again, but was left vague.
Thank you for the feedback, glad to know someone else noticed, would like to have more info on how they are suppose to work now. I also noticed raiders moving around them once again and not always getting hit. I like this, but not sure if it is the intent.
Quote from: Fritigern on July 09, 2018, 08:14:49 PM
I'm on year 10 of my colony with over 30 pawns, and I can officially say I have begun cheating to survive mechanoids in 1.0...
It sounds like something's really going weird with your game. Could you possibly upload the savegame? If not...
- What's your wealth?
- Population is 30, right?
- How many days old is the colony?
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 09, 2018, 10:09:20 PM
Quote from: Lanilor on July 09, 2018, 09:50:18 PM
And if you think raid sizes are too large
You're asking me to do it... you're ASKING ME TO DO IT.
...
~200 Scythers. Instant game over.
Might be related to the 5,5mio colony wealth
How did you get 5.5 million wealth? What's the context here?
Crashland/Temperate Forest/Large Hills/Cassandra Hard.
8th of Aprimay, 5502.
I had my first infestation. I'm just surprised it took this long, I built a bit too much into the mountain. Though I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a delay. My crafters were not doomed! So, a couple of thoughts:
- The sound-effect of the bugs digging their way up doesn't stop when the game is paused. It's not particularly enjoyable to hear it while you're drafting your pawns and evaluating the situation.
- A bench that was in the way of where a hive was going to spawn completely disappeared. It was a high-tech research bench, meaning 250 steel and 10 components. I don't mind losing the bench because it is my fault, but the materials can be hard to come by, especially components. A partial refund of the things that get destroyed by the appearance of the hives might be fairer and more consistent, considering that it happens in similar situations. The components I used for that bench came from a couple of mini-gun turrets that I destroyed while raiding an item stash, for example.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 09, 2018, 10:09:20 PM
Might be related to the 5,5mio colony wealth
And I thought I am a hoarder with my 381k on 249 days colony...
Also, human bite damage is defined as equal to punches, I'm not sure why it'd do more. Any insight appreciated, maybe I just forgot how this system works.
Couple of notes, I've been hunting with melee and since that needs done by drafting the animal corpses default to forbidden. I'm assuming that it's WAD (not that it's a huge issue since I have to go back and undraft them anyway). Opportunistic hauling still feels kinda wonky for single harvest jobs. For example, when I have a job to cut a berry bush the job finishes and they head back home to the next job without hauling the berries back. I'm assuming that it's because the next job is decided before the berries "drop" or are counted as an available job?
Edit: I'm also playing on climate cycle in a 20/60 boreal forest and it's reporting the seasons as permanent winter for my starting year even though it's around 80F during the day. The growing zones are all working right though
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 02:14:54 AM
Also, human bite damage is defined as equal to punches, I'm not sure why it'd do more. Any insight appreciated, maybe I just forgot how this system works.
-<DamageDef Name="Bite">
<defName>Bite</defName>
<label>bite</label>
<workerClass>DamageWorker_Bite</workerClass>
<externalViolence>true</externalViolence>
<deathMessage>{0} has been bitten to death.</deathMessage>
<hediff>Bite</hediff>
<hediffSolid>Crack</hediffSolid>
<harmAllLayersUntilOutside>true</harmAllLayersUntilOutside>
<impactSoundType>Slice</impactSoundType>
<armorCategory>Sharp</armorCategory>
<biteDamageMultiplier>1.25</biteDamageMultiplier>There's a 1.25 damage multiplier on bites in the Damages_MeleeWeapon def. If bites are set to 10 damage then the 12.5 damage we're seeing at least lines up with that..
But I thought punches did 8 damage, not 10. Maybe I'm going mad.
A rather amusing event occurred. So a poison ship lands way on the other side of the map. It's -10C and too far away to ever poison me, so I just pop the mechs out and restrict my dudes to never go near it. Free guardians amiright?
A few days later some friendlies arrive. Wow. They actually kicked their butts. I'm used to friendlies arriving and instantaneously getting wrecked.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I recently rebalanced how friendlies scale.
I am unimpressed by explosions. They seem terribly ineffective against anyone with even the most minor armour.
I've been at the receiving end of doomsdays and (mostly) shrugged them off. I've had to throw a dozen grenades at someone in power armour to kill them and worst of all Anti-grain vs centipedes was a huge disappointment.
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 02:14:54 AM
Also, human bite damage is defined as equal to punches, I'm not sure why it'd do more. Any insight appreciated, maybe I just forgot how this system works.
Base damage 8.2
Random mult up to 1.2, can rise it to 9.84, which can be rounded to 10
biteDamageMultiplier adds 25% which leads to 12.5
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 01:23:42 AM
Quote from: Fritigern on July 09, 2018, 08:14:49 PM
I'm on year 10 of my colony with over 30 pawns, and I can officially say I have begun cheating to survive mechanoids in 1.0...
It sounds like something's really going weird with your game. Could you possibly upload the savegame? If not...
- What's your wealth?
- Population is 30, right?
- How many days old is the colony?
Almost my situation. Last psy-ship was 27 centipedes, 30+ lancers, 30+ scythers vs 42 pawns(Cassy still allow me to easily recruit from prisoners, also one of last mans was chased refugee). Colony at 1.05 mil of wealth. 7 year. Hard. Direct engagement = lose without any chance. Centipedes too tanky and bring too much firepower if you try to deal with them just in one spot. But door cheesing still work. ;D
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Oblitus on July 10, 2018, 03:01:03 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 02:14:54 AM
Also, human bite damage is defined as equal to punches, I'm not sure why it'd do more. Any insight appreciated, maybe I just forgot how this system works.
Base damage 8.2
Random mult up to 1.2, can rise it to 9.84, which can be rounded to 10
biteDamageMultiplier adds 25% which leads to 12.5
That'll be it - Totally forgot about the random damage multiplier.
How are you guys getting million+ wealth levels? What do your colonies look like? How are you playing - just to grow indefinitely?
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 03:09:47 AM
How are you guys getting million+ wealth levels? What do your colonies look like? How are you playing - just to grow indefinitely?
Good/excellent(or better) equipment - significant boost to wealth. Just healthy pawn with some bionics and power armor set is ~8-9k of wealth. So 40 pawns is already 0.3-0.4 mil. Base is nothing specific - a few greenhouses, stockpiles and rooms, just for decent live in this cruel world. Almost w/o drugs! ;D
PS Sorry for resizing. Original resolution doesnt fit 600kb. This is almost full base. A little killbox(w/o turrets) to the north, and some empty rooms with insects jelly to the west under mountains not crucial.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Yup, I've played a long term fort back in the day, and the high quality levels just absurdly increase wealth, particularly when multiplied on materials with already high base wealth like plasteel. It gets worse when your workers have crazy levels of bionics. The increased wealth also creates a feedback loop with mechanoid raids when you net ever growing amounts of plasteel from ever bigger mechanoid raids (which you just recently helped fix :D)
Drugs are great for the initial rampup in wealth but don't get any such multiplying effect.
Pretty sure an indefinite colony is the most common way to play. I have 13 colonists with 300k wealth after 200 days Cass extra nb temperate flat, and I have been trying to keep it down, smelting almost every weapon. It would help if we could view a break down of wealth by category, even just as plain text under the statistics tab. Weapons, food, textiles, drugs, etc. Btw do human corpses, corpse gear, or animal corpses count for wealth?
Quote from: Mehni on July 10, 2018, 02:50:55 AM
Anti-grain vs centipedes was a huge disappointment.
I had the same reaction with my first shot. But you can easily get 10 to 20 antigrain warheads by the end game, and most quests are only a question of motivation. Antigrain warheads always deal a decent amount of dmg to centipedes if the shot is not totally off, which is really significant. You should be perfectly fine without antigrain warheads until the ship warm up, then they are a precious ressource to fight already half dead centipedes. A shorter fight always means healthier and happier colonists. And now coupled with sniper turrets, centipedes are dealt with relatively quickly.
Orbital bombardment or power beams are not really effective against mechs, still devastating against pirates or tribespeople.
I don't think any of these weapons needs to be buffed.
Quote from: Greep on July 10, 2018, 03:34:57 AM
Yup, I've played a long term fort back in the day, and the high quality levels just absurdly increase wealth, particularly when multiplied on materials with already high base wealth like plasteel.
But a high quality power armor is also absurdly powerful as mentionned by mehni.
Quote from: zizard on July 10, 2018, 03:40:25 AM
Pretty sure an indefinite colony is the most common way to play.
I think it was true because there was no real challenge to launch the ship. Now you should try to take off once, to keep in mind that leaving the planet may mean trade-offs on wealth. Individual threats from the standard cycle can be dealt with until relatively high wealth, coping with the same threats on a fast pace is a different story.
@Awe: Ack, when I look at that all I can see is wealth bloat :P
The gigantic chicken farm, the animal beds/chairs made out of leather instead of cloth, the jade sculptures in every room, the gigantic surplus of heavy leather and what looks like thrumbofur, lamps in every room, the power infrastructure.
Also you could save some power by not cooling your Geothermal generator and just leaving it exposed to your main batch of sun lamps
Really though that silver stockpile is bonkers.. there's uhh.. 193? tiles I think per trade beacon and if that silver is all merged then it's 500 silver per tile which is uhh.. go go-napkin math.. 965k? - the ~25 squares is somewhere around 800k.
That silver is a gigantic lead weight around your neck, remember that every time you buy something that object is worth less than what you paid for it, effectively lowering your wealth in addition to you now owning something useful.
If you spent all that silver on things to defend your base against mechanoids you'd be in a better spot :P
You also look like you've got a massive gold stockpile.
I dread to think of the wealth locked in those sculptures too. You can get a lot of mileage out of normal/good small stone sculptures in bedrooms. Jade is often ridiculous overkill
Insects come together at the start of the map. Wild-man does not fight against insects. Even they are sleeping together.
It does not matter much, but I write it down for fun.
Quote from: Boboid on July 10, 2018, 04:03:48 AM
@Awe: Ack, when I look at that all I can see is wealth bloat :P
The gigantic chicken farm, the animal beds/chairs made out of leather instead of cloth, the jade sculptures in every room, the gigantic surplus of heavy leather and what looks like thrumbofur, lamps in every room, the power infrastructure.
Also you could save some power by not cooling your Geothermal generator and just leaving it exposed to your main batch of sun lamps
Really though that silver stockpile is bonkers.. there's uhh.. 193? tiles I think per trade beacon and if that silver is all merged then it's 500 silver per tile which is uhh.. go go-napkin math.. 965k? - the ~25 squares is somewhere around 800k.
That silver is a gigantic lead weight around your neck, remember that every time you buy something that object is worth less than what you paid for it, effectively lowering your wealth in addition to you now owning something useful.
If you spent all that silver on things to defend your base against mechanoids you'd be in a better spot :P
You also look like you've got a massive gold stockpile.
I dread to think of the wealth locked in those sculptures too. You can get a lot of mileage out of normal/good small stone sculptures in bedrooms. Jade is often ridiculous overkill
Gold(4k) stockpiled for future grand statue. Im just waiting for inspiration on proper pawn. This is only purpose =)
70k of excessive silver. Aquired just for selling leathers/jelly/worn equipment.
8k of insect jelly not on screen(another 64k), legendary golden royal bed - another 60k of useless wealth. Jade statues not too costly - i think like 600x40, lets round to 30k. Chickens are cheap compared to all above, and allow me to hunt less. =) Soooo. 40+70+60+60+30. -250k. Just 25%. I dont think, if i burn this all and ship bring 22 centipedes instead of 27, it help a lot. Centipedes is directly manageable while they are like 5-6-7 in a group, but not 20. -_-
PS Geothermal near greenhouses not cooled. Here is some unroofed spots for wenting heat. This coolers for greenhouses. Just some of heatwaves rise temp to 45 and need to cool plants a bit to get rid of bad temp penalty. ;)
Wealth bloat is effectively uncapped, and if you decidedly keep wealth low, you are missing any sense of progression quite soon.
Raids are based on wealth and scale infinitely.
New 1.0 gameplay insists that thou must use your pawns as a primary combat power.
The more pawns you have, the more difficult it is to gain more, and more tedious managing is.
But this is not the worst part. Getting more population turns the colony into the ant farm, and I simply can't care about them anymore - they are losing any personality. No personality - no story. My personal comfortable maximum is 8-10. No matter how picky I am in recruiting, sometimes I just need that pawn now, so 1-2 would be incapable of violence, and 1-2 other would be just awful fighters, so I somehow have to fend off endless hordes of enemies with 5-8 capable pawns.
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 03:09:47 AM
How are you guys getting million+ wealth levels? What do your colonies look like? How are you playing - just to grow indefinitely?
Tynan wants to know so he can get rich and finally retire to that tropical island he's been dreaming about.
Yep, i also play to survive as long as i can and to hoard as much stuff as i can get. I think its pretty common way to play Rimworld and frankly most fun way as well. Especially combined with Randy's over 13 population cap.
After a while of play raids tend to get ridiculous though. As i said earlier it turns into tower defense more or less, with fire power most of the time being an only meaningful factor. Or it turns into a complete disaster, if they drop righ inside of your base (well for me at least, i suck at dealing with drop pods). I thought that with me surviving up to maximum 2,5 mil in B18, i was as greedy as you can get, but 5 mil... Man. I still have ways to go. I wonder, how you even live through a single raid with such crazy wealth without a hard cap on raid's strength.
Thats why i welcome small scale fights that are world quests now - those fights are much more immersive and interesting, than a huge slaughterfest lategame raids turn into. Your gear, skills and proper tactics actually mean something now, when you fight out there in the world map. I really hope that world map events will get a threat point cap, so that it won't ever turn into regular raid like mess.
Though i must say, i wonder if i will ever be able to live to over a mil wealth now that in 1.0 most strategies that allowed to survive crazy raid sizes were somewhat deprecated. Because fighting ~200 raiders even 50 colonists head on... Heh. Just no way.
Quote from: Awe on July 10, 2018, 04:19:58 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 10, 2018, 04:03:48 AM
@Awe: Ack, when I look at that all I can see is wealth bloat :P
The gigantic chicken farm, the animal beds/chairs made out of leather instead of cloth, the jade sculptures in every room, the gigantic surplus of heavy leather and what looks like thrumbofur, lamps in every room, the power infrastructure.
Also you could save some power by not cooling your Geothermal generator and just leaving it exposed to your main batch of sun lamps
Really though that silver stockpile is bonkers.. there's uhh.. 193? tiles I think per trade beacon and if that silver is all merged then it's 500 silver per tile which is uhh.. go go-napkin math.. 965k? - the ~25 squares is somewhere around 800k.
That silver is a gigantic lead weight around your neck, remember that every time you buy something that object is worth less than what you paid for it, effectively lowering your wealth in addition to you now owning something useful.
If you spent all that silver on things to defend your base against mechanoids you'd be in a better spot :P
You also look like you've got a massive gold stockpile.
I dread to think of the wealth locked in those sculptures too. You can get a lot of mileage out of normal/good small stone sculptures in bedrooms. Jade is often ridiculous overkill
Gold(4k) stockpiled for future grand statue. Im just waiting for inspiration on proper pawn. This is only purpose =)
70k of excessive silver. Aquired just for selling leathers/jelly/worn equipment.
8k of insect jelly not on screen(another 64k), legendary golden royal bed - another 60k of useless wealth. Jade statues not too costly - i think like 600x40, lets round to 30k. Chickens are cheap compared to all above, and allow me to hunt less. =) Soooo. 40+70+60+60+30. -250k. Just 25%. I dont think, if i burn this all and ship bring 22 centipedes instead of 27, it help a lot. Centipedes is directly manageable while they are like 5-6-7 in a group, but not 20. -_-
Well there's still a lot of wealth locked in leather furniture instead of cloth furniture but hrm...
Just to humour me could you post your wealth graph? curious about animal numbers. I'm a little bit suspicious that the fact that you've placed a bazillion walls might be a contributing factor.
Obviously the amount of steel invested in power is eating a bunch too.. how refined is that power grid anyway? Given access to a river it's surprising that you've got
so much solar. Especially with so few batteries.
Plasteel doors everywhree are obviously adding a bit but I understand why you'd use them..
I guess you could cut down on your chemfuel stockpile..
What the hell is in that room just below your devilstrand? It's a 1x2 table, 6 stools and...?
Fine/lavish meals are worth more than their parts but.. again I understand why you'd have a large stockpile..
---
Out of curiosity have you tried using EMP IEDs? You can't build them within.. 4? tiles of the ship without triggering it but their explosion radius is gigantic and the mechs will trigger them when they pop out quite consistently. They're a million times better than mortars in my experience.
Frankly when I look at a mech raid of that size my first thought is " If I can kill those scythers during the emp blast then I can just beat all the mechanoids to death with melee weapons" but.. that's because I've been playing so many melee colonies lately :P
Quote from: Madman666 on July 10, 2018, 04:24:45 AM
Especially combined with Randy's over 13 population cap.
Cass isn't anywhere near as limiting when it comes to population now. You can quite consistently get 20+ colonists now which I personally find more interesting. I've gone as high as 56 in a 1.0 cass game but, that wasn't in the current version.
Quote
New 1.0 gameplay insists that thou must use your pawns as a primary combat power.
Really couldn't disagree more.. Frankly I think there are more ways to invest your wealth in combat power which out-scales raids now than there ever were.
And that's really the whole point.
Can you spend wealth on combat power in a way that increases your combat power relative to raids inclusive of the wealth spent on said combat power? Yes. The answer is
Yes
Quote from: Boboid on July 10, 2018, 04:45:26 AM
Can you spend wealth on combat power in a way that increases your combat power relative to raids inclusive of the wealth spent on said combat power? Yes. The answer is Yes
No. The answer is
No. Sure, power armor can give you an edge. Some edge. But at the end of a day, it can only buy you some time. No armor will help when you are outnumbered 1:20. Or when your pawn is set on fire and decides to run away from cover under a crossfire. You can use turrets, but you can only have so much turrets. They have an upkeep cost, they need replacements after raids, they need power, they need space. You can buy some time, but you are doomed by design. One day you will see an eclipse caused by hundreds of drop pods falling right on your heads, and this will be the end.
Quote from: Boboid on July 10, 2018, 04:45:26 AM
...
We have mutual hate with Cass. And I've grown too attached to Randy's long periods of calm days, that can promtly end by histerical raid, after a disease, after psychic ship or everything in one day. Or it can be a nightmare of bad stuff. He has bad mood days, just like me. Its so heart-warming. I guess i also like to suffer... but in a slightly different way, heh.
Also I in turn disagree with you saying its easier to deal with raids in 1.0. Because it really isn't and almost every update there is something added or changed to force you to rely on using colonists in a straigthforward shootouts even more. The only really good tool to deal with raids is now armor, which was buffed to work properly. And i guess autocannons also somewhat useful to sponge shots (sniper turret being expensive and useless). Otherwise you have to rely on colonists to deal with everything themselves. Which is fine up to 500k wealth or something. Then it gets gross.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 10, 2018, 04:56:07 AM
One day you will see an eclipse caused by hundreds of drop pods falling right on your heads, and this will be the end.
The problem is - some people don't really play it to last, they like to live a story and eventually end it by dramatically leaving, so they most likely won't ever see that eclipse of doom and won't ever care about people who will and will be very surprised, when some people complain about raid scaling or world map scalin (as i ve seen couple days before). Or about nerfing some strategies, that used to help against crazy raid sizes. Because those strategies just won't be needed in their own playthroughs.
Quote
Well there's still a lot of wealth locked in leather furniture instead of cloth furniture but hrm...
Just to humour me could you post your wealth graph? curious about animal numbers. I'm a little bit suspicious that the fact that you've placed a bazillion walls might be a contributing factor.
Animals are lowest graph. Biggest part is stockpiles/equipment.
Quote
Obviously the amount of steel invested in power is eating a bunch too.. how refined is that power grid anyway? Given access to a river it's surprising that you've got so much solar. Especially with so few batteries.
I dont need more batteries. Main power consumer is sunlamps and they are pretty nice work with solars. Except the eclipse. I can counter it with batteries, but i just prefer to shut off some sunlamps for eclipse duration. Just dont like huge zzzt explosions.
Quote
What the hell is in that room just below your devilstrand? It's a 1x2 table, 6 stools and...?
Beer. =) Never did it before. Just grow some hops in 2 or 3 year, and still drinking it. =)
Quote
Fine/lavish meals are worth more than their parts but.. again I understand why you'd have a large stockpile..
500 meals for 40 man? Not a big stockpile, imho. Just a week of food.
Quote
Out of curiosity have you tried using EMP IEDs? You can't build them within.. 4? tiles of the ship without triggering it but their explosion radius is gigantic and the mechs will trigger them when they pop out quite consistently. They're a million times better than mortars in my experience.
Im personally dont like IEDs. -_-
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Madman666 on July 10, 2018, 05:02:27 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 10, 2018, 04:56:07 AM
One day you will see an eclipse caused by hundreds of drop pods falling right on your heads, and this will be the end.
The problem is - some people don't really play it to last, they like to live a story and eventually end it by dramatically leaving, so they most likely won't ever see that eclipse of doom and won't ever care about people who will and will be very surprised, when some people complain about raid scaling or world map scalin (as i ve seen couple days before). Or about nerfing some strategies, that used to help against crazy raid sizes. Because those strategies just won't be needed in their own playthroughs.
Yes, I find myself playing this way more and more. And it feels bad. My most memorable playthrough in 1500 hours was in 0.17. It was a Rich Explorer scenario. My initial pawn was killed somewhere around 3rd year. But then I had a mod which added resurrection machine, obtained in the extremely rare event. I tucked a body into cryptosleep capsule and ended up playing more than 10 (TEN) years to resurrect that first pawn before taking off the planet. Another one, again in 0.17, was when I tried to take a caravan route to the ship, and heavily miscalculated supplies needed, so I settled to recover and ended up living there for several more years. Now I can't imagine myself doing anything like this. It ceases to be fun somewhere around year 4. I can struggle for a several more years, but it is not a fun type of struggle. All that shit that happens I can only describe as "cheesy." It stinks of fake difficulty. And I am playing on normal now, dropping 2 difficulty levels from older versions. Also, originally I was always playing on flat maps, and it felt nice, now I feel obliged to bunker up under a mountain.
Well, as you ve seen - Tynan seems genuinely surprised, that people managed to hoard even more than a mil, not talking about 5 mils :D So I don't think he considered, that quite a lot of people actually played Rimworld in this style, not to win, but to last. Hence the changes to balance mostly made around completely different playstyle than we have. Thats of course only just my assumption. Can't read minds. To continue playing our way, without making it relatively short term "runs", we ll probably just have to rely on mods for the most part.
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 03:09:47 AM
How are you guys getting million+ wealth levels? What do your colonies look like? How are you playing - just to grow indefinitely?
Well, usually I like to play until I've unlocked everything and there is no point playing on anymore (then I take my leave =p). That's pretty much where I'm at with the 5.5mio colony.
The journey is the goal here.It consists of two colonies actually, as I'm trying out the possibility of having more than one colony (never got to that in B18 and before). I know it's not really part of the game to have more than one colony, so I'm not expecting everything to work perfectly.
Short answer: Mods
Long answer:
Part of the wealth is caused directly by mods. In this case it's mostly RimFactory which converts anything into paperclips and those into anything again. So I'm mining rock chunks and turn them into paperclips into Z-composite (very expensive very powerful material) - that alone probably makes up a significant amount of my wealth (especially the paperclips).
If I don't play with this or other content-heavy mods the wealth usually comes in form of gold/uranium/plasteel and expensive statues and furniture made of gold. That usually happens late enough that I could take my leave any time really. Before 1.0 that actually happened way earlier because of how much resources deep drills gave (and how quickly).
I had a big raid on my main colony and a manhunter pack on my 2nd base lately which nearly crashed the game. This was the 32bit version however. I avoided the 64bit version because it crashed a lot for me, but this isn't the case anymore. On 64bit the game runs noticeably smoother and faster. Also interesting to note: My 2nd colony gets MUCH smaller raids than the first one, so wealth per settlement is actually relevant, not overall wealth.
Damn, I said settlement, now Preston Garvey is going to come...[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Awe on July 10, 2018, 04:19:58 AM
legendary golden royal bed - another 60k of useless wealth
Quote from: Oblitus on July 10, 2018, 04:22:49 AM
Wealth bloat is effectively uncapped, and if you decidedly keep wealth low, you are missing any sense of progression quite soon.
Raids are based on wealth and scale infinitely.
This is a good insight. Getting upgrades shouldn't feel like they hurt the player, but the game mechanics here are punishing you when you replace "good enough" parts of your base with awesome fun parts. That super awesome bed isn't likely to prevent many mental breaks or cause many more inspirations, but it will cause all raids to be larger.
As a simple fix, I'd suggest having masterwork/legendary quality items provide "colony wealth" as though they were only excellent quality. Or something along those lines - don't make me want to worry about maximizing colony survivability by figuring out which of my pawns can do with less.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 10, 2018, 05:27:33 AM
I had a big raid on my main colony and a manhunter pack on my 2nd base lately which nearly crashed the game. This was the 32bit version however. I avoided the 64bit version because it crashed a lot for me, but this isn't the case anymore. On 64bit the game runs noticeably smoother and faster. Also interesting to note: My 2nd colony gets MUCH smaller raids than the first one, so wealth per settlement is actually relevant, not overall wealth.
Damn, I said settlement, now Preston Garvey is going to come...
That actually makes me wonder, how exactly new worldmap event threat formula scales if you have more than 1 colony. Will it count both colonies and all pawns, or will it only take one into account. Hmm.
Btw, i also started out Rimworld as usual, avoiding mods and enjoyng the mess my not knowing anything turned all my plays into. After leaving planet couple times, getting used to most mechanics, i wondered how long can i last and what'll be able to kill me, if i already know every punch the game can send at me almost at any combination. And later that turned into me wanting to actually make a glitterworld-like paradise, however long it ll take me, at that point i started using mods. And with that i had most fun.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 10, 2018, 05:38:37 AM
That actually makes me wonder, how exactly new worldmap event threat formula scales if you have more than 1 colony. Will it count both colonies and all pawns, or will it only take one into account. Hmm.
It doesn't seem to scale after a certain point. Worldquests are 10-14 pawn outposts and sth like 15 Elephant manhunter packs since a long while. So that point was reached way before I got to work on a second colony.
Whats more interesting is:
Mechanoid drop in the middle of my base: pretty harmless (because they get split up in all the rooms) and it's much less of them.
Centipede mechanoid raid: quite deadly, due to infinite inferno cannon stun, but they are slow, can be kited, mortar'd, etc.
Scyther mechanoid raid: insanely deadly, 200+ scythers just overrun everything.
Humanoid raid (siege, sappers, normal etc.): pretty easily dealt with, because not durable and not melee (like scyther/centipede) - however at this point they carry around 20 rocket launchers, so yeah... they can be bad
Manhunter pack: probably the easiest, just running meat
Split up mechanoid raid: also relatively manageable, but does large damage to my base because I have to take the groups on one by one.
Note: no killbox used, not even a full wall around colony established
Thats really good news, as i didn't really check on more than 500k wealth. I really don't want world map to scale any more than 10-14 enemies... Home map being a constant mess of corpses and blood is bad enough.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 10, 2018, 04:56:07 AM
No. The answer is No. Sure, power armor can give you an edge. Some edge. But at the end of a day, it can only buy you some time. No armor will help when you are outnumbered 1:20. Or when your pawn is set on fire and decides to run away from cover under a crossfire. You can use turrets, but you can only have so much turrets. They have an upkeep cost, they need replacements after raids, they need power, they need space. You can buy some time, but you are doomed by design. One day you will see an eclipse caused by hundreds of drop pods falling right on your heads, and this will be the end.
You're talking about a flawless game state
again, because in your mind that's how rimworld should be played - flawlessly and with ~10 people. While also somehow accommodating a perpetual endgame.
Additionally this is inferential hyperbole based on a ridiculous set of assumptions and standards.
You're of the opinion that any combat that results in melee hits being exchanged is "strategically lost"
And don't even get me started on using mods in a 1.0 game in its current state.
The longest running colony I've had in 1.0 lasted
14 years and ~2.3M wealth, alternating between hard and V-hard, before enough changed that I felt it deserved a restart. At that point boredom was of greater concern than your scenario of infinite enemies overwhelming me.
I wasn't even approaching the point in the game where my steel was starting to go down which is
directly linked to your theoretical doomsaying. I was still generating more steel than I could use, accelerating away away from my consumption until like.. year 11 and part of that was personal laziness. And that's without doing anything ridiculous like setting up a mining colony nearby.
Moreover - this nihilistic theorycrafting isn't even particularly relevant. The game currently has 4 end-states, loss, ship construction and launch, traveling to ship, and boredom.
And frankly I think you're more likely to get bored if you're playing even semi-optimally on Hard or below. Anyone playing on higher difficulties is deliberately putting themselves in a situation that increases the likelihood of Loss being their end-state. So long as people aren't being blind-sided and losing before any other result is even moderately feasible then that's a pretty good game state.
If you want to have more freedom of movement and choice, play a lower difficulty, it's really as simple as that.
You're not an inferior player for wanting to play a particular way, the notion that playing on a lower difficulty is somehow worse is ridiculous.
You CAN still play exactly as you were prior to the 1.0 changes, just not on the same difficulty. Is that a problem? Really?
Whatever you were doing prior to 1.0 to make it past the thresholds you can't pass now was absolutely exploiting broken game mechanics. THAT is fake difficulty right there. The fact that you can't do that anymore doesn't mean that all the experiences you want from the game have been removed.
And that's probably for the best. Muddling along and becoming bored of a colony before you win or lose is an inherently unsatisfying experience, as was watching every raid kill itself on 400 deadfall traps.
You were technically " winning " but I guarantee that given you feel " obligated " to be in a mountain base that you'd agree it wasn't satisfying.
Don't get me wrong - There are exceptions in the current game state, some raid types scale weirdly like Scythers and melee sappers. Both of which suffer from critical mass more than most other threat types. There are flaws, but - Being able to play forever can easily make the game worse.
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Quote
Animals are lowest graph. Biggest part is stockpiles/equipment
Yes I assumed animals would be the smallest contributor but that's not really the point, animals could be 32% of your colony wealth and still be the smallest contributor :P I'm just wondering how much wealth you're investing in meat production. The cost of the animals themselves and the upkeep of them have to be considered.
In regards to power consumption you might find water/geo power to be sufficient given the river's surface area, just an idea. Each to their own.
Quote
Beer. =)
Oh right, duh, I can see it now :D Yeah it can last a long time.. Can't say I've found it particularly useful personally, wonder what the value is on all that.
In regards to food - Yeah as I said I understand why you'd want a reserve - I've run similarly large colonies and you
can function with a smaller reserve so long as your productivity can handle being slowed down by disease or injury.
QuoteIm personally dont like IEDs. -_-
Well, they're effective tool that's all I'm sayin', mechanoids are a nail, emp is the hammer. I've actually taken to putting IEDS in uhh..
inappropriate locations around my base.. Like my freezer and workshop.. and hospital. Helps mitigate drops if there's a particular mech type that you're not set to counter. Being non-destructive is a serious bonus. I did briefly toy with standard IEDs but found they could lead to.. unintended? destruction :P
Quote from: Madman666 on July 10, 2018, 05:02:27 AM
We have mutual hate with Cass.
Oh I don't hate Cass, I generally prefer it. Each to their own of course - Though I'll admit it winds me up when people complain about losing to large attacks when playing Randy given his underlying mechanics.. and description :P
Quote
Also I in turn disagree with you saying its easier to deal with raids in 1.0. Because it really isn't and almost every update there is something added or changed to force you to rely on using colonists in a straigthforward shootouts even more. The only really good tool to deal with raids is now armor, which was buffed to work properly. And i guess autocannons also somewhat useful to sponge shots (sniper turret being expensive and useless). Otherwise you have to rely on colonists to deal with everything themselves. Which is fine up to 500k wealth or something. Then it gets gross.
So you're telling me that.. armor is better, autocannons exist, deadfall traps still work, IEDs are easier to manufacture, and the discrepancy in combat-quality between colonists and raiders on a per-person basis has trended towards colonists, you have more colonists per enemy attacker than in previous versions, and that's bad? :P
As to the wealth - It really does depend on where you're investing it. There's an incredibly non-linear connection between how much wealth you need to spend to keep colonists functioning throughout the game. The % of your wealth dedicated to defense is really important.
It really boils down to playstyle. I see a lot of people get complacent in the late game, invest in expensive trivialities that don't do much (Looking at you, 60k wealth golden royal bed), and then die as a result.
And I'm not defending that interaction. The wealth modifiers on legendary items in particular can sometimes cause huge spikes in game difficulty, as can certain raid types against certain base designs.
Sometimes it's a bad interaction that the player is unduly punished for, other times it's not.
Edit: Typos
I have my own little private mod which modifies some defs, including the wealth modifier by quality so legendary is just x3 not x6.
Honestly I think wealth should be calculated SOLELY on base market value, excluding PARTICULARLY the quality. Why? The player looks to cheat the system. This gives him the option to do so in a non-cheesy fair way.
Imagine it this way: You use armor and weapons that are worn out and low quality: Raid is as strong as if those were normal quality and 100% durability, you get (slightly) punished for using bad quality. You use good quality equipment. Raid is still same strength, but you have a slight edge because your equipment is good. You use excellent/masterwork/legendary equipment: Raid is STILL same strength, but now you have a big edge because you have excellent equipment.
You get rewarded for good quality by enemies being easier. Right now it's the other way around. Good quality gear gives less of a bonus to you, as player, than it gives the AI/enemy by inflating wealth so much.
And having luxurious rooms and furniture actually gets you punished, as their bonuses are really small (like 1-4 mood points) for a HUGE increase in raid size.
I think part of Rimworlds balance problems stems from the issue that some keep their wealth artificially low and face relatively weak enemies (maybe too weak?) others give their colonists all the luxury and face strong raids. Meanwhile their defense/fighting power is the same though.
Armor is better (that one i really like), autocannons exist (they even hit once in a couple raids, yay), traps still work (good luck hoping for sappers to dig into them or drop pods to drop into them and I don't like turning my whole base into one huge ass trapped hallway), IEDs are easier to manufacture (wasting components on 1time use traps, how luxurious can you get? and also good luck waiting for enemies stepping into them). Yeah, ratio wealth-raider was nerfed, but since raids have no cap at all, it really just comes to having couple more hundred wealth.
And what, do we absolutely need to turn our base into one big F-ing killbox, with turrets substituting for walls and traps instead of doors? Well, i don't like that idea at all. Sure you can invest like a mil into defenses, saturating every free tile of space you have with something, that'll make someone hurt, but if you still live in a stone shack eating pemmican and throwing horseshoes for fun, where will be any kind feeling of progression?
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 03:09:47 AM
How are you guys getting million+ wealth levels? What do your colonies look like? How are you playing - just to grow indefinitely?
I have not reached 1 million in unstable 1.0 because i keep trying new biomes, missions and moving, but i have reached 400,00 mark. Traps cause a massive increase in wealth, quality furnishings, armor etc.. In b18 often had bases of 2 mil and loved taking on hundreds of mechs and raiders. Since unstable 1.0 i have not been able to do this because it is too hard for me at the moment as i try to sort out a game plan with the new mechanics to make a base of that value. I guess i could start on medium or less build and build and then change the difficulty but where it the fun in that?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1437098091 as good as i have been able to do with unstable 1.0
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1367526112 B18 base worth over 2 mil that I absolutely loved
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1437103032 And a literal "RIMWORLD" base just for fun
These bases are always a blast, but i have to admit I cannot take on in Unstable 1.0 in any shape or form (Hard) what i was able to take on in Extreme B18, A17, A16 etc.. But I am trying to learn.
Past versions, raids in action pics
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1433665527
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1382222257
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1436002576
I loved the tornadoes ripping through bases worth 2 million and forcing me to rebuild just like an infestation would
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1383967260
These pics may not mean much to everyone else but they are my entertainment,my fun and I really hope that I can still have this same type of fun in 1.0.
Wealth influencing enemy strength is logical, realistic and I honestly love that mechanic. It's just the quality interaction I dislike.
About my 5.5mio colony - I have I think 10 or 100 million paperclips, which means I can suck every trader empty for everything they got. I can transform those paperclips into most materials (albeit slowly). However the downside of having such a huge stock is the massive raids. And it makes sense that your wealth attracts raiders.
^That right there is what I love about that mechanic.
Crafting good gear/furniture and providing luxury getting you more punished than rewarded, that's what I hate about it.
This is my experience and has been since I started in A15. I nearly always play with my personal mod reducing the quality modifier of high quality gear.
I see people complain about centipedes but they are not an issue in my case. I have fought one so far and it was kinda like a tank, it only had 1 support melee bot that my 4 melee fighters could handle and then my 7 shooters took it down. I now have 2 good LMG's which I imagine will do ok against them (before I took it down using pistols and bolt actions pretty much).
On Naked brutality the game was much nicer and easier to me but also gave me less pawns until I hit a certain point. Maybe it's all wealth related.
I am doing crashed landed now and I am getting way more raids, events for new members, etc.
So for research if I am doing crash landed I rush fabrication maybe getting batteries, AC, beer, devilstrand, electric smelting, geo power, machine, and smithing. From there you can do whatever without much worry.
This run I am trying to research everything before building a ship and flying off and seeing how long that takes.
Cassandra rough regular start. day 160 at 100k wealth.
At my estimates I will probably have a ship built before 400k wealth and be offworld.
Probably gonna try a get to the ship run next but I imagine it requires drop pods researched soon.
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 10, 2018, 06:32:09 AM
I see people complain about centipedes but they are not an issue in my case. I have fought one so far and it was kinda like a tank, it only had 1 support melee bot that my 4 melee fighters could handle and then my 7 shooters took it down. I now have 2 good LMG's which I imagine will do ok against them (before I took it down using pistols and bolt actions pretty much).
For me centipedes feel fine. They only get really annoying if there is lots of them 10+ and they have many inferno cannons.
My nightmare really are lancers with scythers. You want to run from scythers but you have to stay in cover because lancers are going to blast everyone's brain out if you're not.
I'm playing Phoebe hard, Tropical year-round growing, mountainous, now in Septober '04 with 9 Pawns and wealth around 150000.
I've been playing Rimworld for around 550 hours prior to 1.0, mostly A16 and A17 and now I got hooked again.
Started this colony a few builds ago, so I don't know if all of my impressions are still valid.
Here are some of my experiences in no particular order:
-I liked the downscaling of caravan-threats a lot, haven't done caracaning again in the latest build when they were buffed again but that's probably a good thing, they seemed almost a little too easy a build ago but at least I could finally venture out to do some quests without that being almost certain a death sentence.
-I really approve to Rescuees not bleeding out anymore, had the father of one of my colonists die while I was fighting 2vs2 against a Lancer and a Scyther and being occupied in not getting my colonists killed some builds ago.
-I've built a mountain base and got the expression it is really strong, since I had some drop pod raids landing outside thanks to my thick roof. Haven't had any infestations up to this point but maybe Phoebe is just nice to me, I'm not in need of these ;-)
-I had some labradors join some time ago, 3 females and one male and they are breeding like rabbits. I really was lucky to get 3 females I guess but I don't know if it's intended this way. Right now I've got 21 of them despite losing two to some enraged Rhinoceroses.
In this regard: I decided to euthanize one beceause it had lost it's jaw and I didn't want to feed it all the time. The doctoring colonist now got the -5 for killing a colony animal. I liked the change, that slaughtering doesn't get this debuff anymore but maybe that should be true for euthanising too since she really did it in a kind way, drugging the dog and anesthesizing it beforehand to give it some nice last hours ;-)
-I'd really like being able of installing prosthetics on animals, at least some wooden or simple stuff.
-I'd really like being able to replace or reconstruct shattered noses, I think this "disfigured" relations debuff is really annoying. In my opinion at least lovers and probably other disfigured members should be less superficial and possibly some long time friends too. Could be interesting for storytelling if not everybody would instantly like them less. Right now it's just something I can neither avoid (maybe with better helmets, of course) nor counterplay.
One of my disfigured Pawns built every piece of furniture and presented them with qhite a lot artistic excellent beds so they should really be more thankful to him ;-)
-Thanks for the ability of crafting bionics!
-I was very disappointed to see that sarcophagi don't show the buried colonists name anymore, it just says "Containing human corpse". The art is also not related in any way to the dead colonist but that could be just bad luck, I remember from A17 that it mostly would be but not always. Please at least bring back the name on the sarcophagi. I only have one so maybe there just went something really wrong in the process of burying after freezing the corpse for a day or so.
-I've got 3 researchers (one also handler, one grower and one cleaner which all share their work with some other Pawns) and mostly only one would research for a few hours a day and the speed feels okay to me.
-Handling really does need dedicated Pawns, I got 3 handlers with also other jobs and nearly all the time at least one is training one of the dogs or the two rats I got (One from the beginning and another one I tamed to get a partner for him, of course slaughtering all the children). For me it feels a little too much time spent for my Pawns but again my dog population is kind of getting out of hand so that could be the cause.
-I read about puppies drinking a lot of alcohol but in my playthrough not one did, which isn't a bad thing of course.
My rat did and got a carcinoma which I was able to extract and now suffers cirrhosis, I like that a lot! Nothing more hilarious than geting the message "Hernan is no longer incapable of walking" and looking at him seeing he's extremely alcohol tolerant, hungover and massively drunk. Looking at him, while he was crawling around my base and vomitting all over the place made me really laugh.
So in my opinion it's a good thing that animals can drink alcohol but not every single one of them should. What I'm experiencing seems balanced and makes good stories.
-I feel as addiction at a whole got less frequent. I have joints, beer and psychite tea for joy for everyone set and until now no Pawn got a tolerance. I think in A17 it was more common but maybe that is related to the changes to recreation so they don't smoke a joint every free minute which is a good thing.
In this regards I'd like to set a time when there are specific drugs allowed so that my pawns only smoke before going to bed so they can walk and work properly during the day and relax in the evening.
-Recreation seems fine and like a nice change to me, I got chess, billiards, poker, hoseshoes pin and drugs. I think it was already adapted but maybe make them more likely to get outside when they feel like "tombed underground". Don't really have any issues with this debuff despite most of the people are working indoors most of the day. Only my depressive one really minds and wants to get drafted outside every few days ;-)
-Please give us some kind of dedicated cleaning area and/or like it was suggested somewhere "opportunistic cleaning", it takes such a lot of time in a big bases and it's really not necessary to clean the whole home area everyday just to ensure they clean the kitchen as well (which I floored with terile tiles and despite that it can't be cleaner than -0.11, I don't know if that's WAD. I also took out every part of furniture, cleaned every tile and reinstalled averything. Made it a little better but the last bits of dirt won't go away. That's not really bothering me but I wanted to mention it anyway. My butcher table is also in the kitchen, if that makes a difference.)
-The only Uranium I saw was from drop pods (43 pieces) but maybe that'll change once I start deep drilling and LRMSing but I think at least some of the traders should sell it. Could be bad luck of course that they weren't.
-One last thing: At one point when I had 5 Pawns I decided to switch the difficulty to very hard (I really prefered the old terms) and almost instantly got a raid from a mixed group of Scythers and Lancers (8 in total), my builder got one shotted and I decided to reload and keep playing on hard. The event triggered and on this difficulty it was 3 manhunting panthers, which is a huge difference. Maybe it was really RNG coming into play and I didn't try it out again but if the difficulty curve really is that steep, I feel like there is something missing in between.
I really like the changes and QoL features you implemented and I want to say a big THANK YOU for this amazing game which is my most played title ever.
Also, thanks for your dedication to this game and your responses on feedback, very much appreciated!
I'd be sad if the development of RW really stopped but at the same time I'd be excited to see what you come up with next :-)
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 10, 2018, 06:35:04 AM
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 10, 2018, 06:32:09 AM
I see people complain about centipedes but they are not an issue in my case. I have fought one so far and it was kinda like a tank, it only had 1 support melee bot that my 4 melee fighters could handle and then my 7 shooters took it down. I now have 2 good LMG's which I imagine will do ok against them (before I took it down using pistols and bolt actions pretty much).
For me centipedes feel fine. They only get really annoying if there is lots of them 10+ and they have many inferno cannons.
My nightmare really are lancers with scythers. You want to run from scythers but you have to stay in cover because lancers are going to blast everyone's brain out if you're not.
Quick note on inferno cannons - Heat armor does actually prevent pawns from being lit on fire in addition to reducing the likelihood of being damaged by said fire if they are set alight.
Additionally - Shield belts are an excellent counter to inferno cannons, AFAIK colonists can't be set alight while a shield belt is active and Inferno cannons don't do particularly large amounts of damage. A single shield belt can tank multiple inferno cannons without breaking.
Shield belts aren't particularly expensive to make anymore either so it might be worth keeping a few on hand just for centipedes. They handle Lancer fire moderately well too although coordinated volleys can be an issue and anyone with a broken shield will need to get out of there in a hurry.
I'm getting hit hard by the rng-god of inspirations. Sure there is a lot luck involved and there should be, but it's borderline dumb and the final one hit topped it: In the first 2 years I only got trade inspirations. I could at least ue them, but getting 30 or 50 silver out of an inspiration feels really limited. After that I got a recruitment inspiration ... without prisoners and in the 8 days lasting, I also didn't get any, so useless. Then I got another inspired traide mid-winter, so probably useless this time and now finally a work frenzy inspiration ... but on the guy being away on a quest caravan.
I also finally got a spit raid from two melee tribespeople groups. I think they chould start happen much earlier, but I have no idea if it's liked to wealth, time or something else. And after killing half of the first group there was the usual message of "tribepeople are fleeing" which is irritating, because only that one group was fleeing and the other not. Maybe just "part of them are fleeing" would make it clearer that there still are raiders trying to burn your base.
Let's talk about "Inspirations".
I think Tynan should revert it to previous versions. As of now, Inspirations are only triggered to pawns based on their skills that have a "Passion" to it, be it either Interested or Burning (Flame x1 or x2). This is because some people "complained", that Inspirations on skills of no Passion were a waste...This is debatable, because there's basically two types of players:
* The Cheesy player who at game start "re-rolls" dozens of times until he/she gets the "Dream Team".
* The Hardcore player who plays with the first five without "re-rolls" and would at least consider swamping with the "Left Behind" but no re-rolls.
In my opinion, the "Wasted Inspiration" is a complain that comes from the "Cheesy Players". Because if you play without re-rolls... it doesn't really matter which skill an inspiration triggers on, as in if it happens on a non-passion skill is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, if your first five characters are all of them bad at Cooking...and you suddenly get a Cooking Inspiration in one of them... it instantly becomes a "great opportunity" to rise one of your pawns as your "main cooker"...
To me Inspirations are great opportunities to help grow a pawn in an area he is deficient at, and placing Inspirations on skills that already have a Passion...is kind of REDUNDANT...as either with or without the Inspiration event, he/she will still upgrade their skill levels... due to learning at 100% or 150%.
Inspirations should be triggered on skills without Passions in which their learning speed is only 35%...now giving inspirations a "true" feature to the game.
Re-roll back to previous version, please.
Yeah, of course. Inspired surgery is definitely better to have on your one-eyed hunter, who barely knows anything about medicine. Since obviously its way better, if he cuts off patient's leg, not destroys a brain outright.
If you so called Hardcore Players like to suffer through a play with 3 colonists with disabled hauling, or a bucket of addictions, berserking after a first couple days of play and thus telling a no doubt very interesting and dramatic story - thats fine. Everybody plays the way they like. But please don't go suggesting turning a flawed mechanic into even more flawed one, just because it suits your own playstyle. Leave us, filthy casuals, a game we can have fun with.
Are you sure? I modified my inspirations def and while doing so I had a look at it. It only said in there they have to have 3 skill in the area (e.g. 3 medical for surgery inspiration).
I honestly would like inspirations to be a bit more controllable. Please read carefully, I said "a bit". Like, the longer a pawn goes without dipping into minor break risk the bigger his chance for an inspiration gets. Just an example. I don't want inspirations to lose their value or randomness, just have a tiny bit more agency in their appearance.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 10, 2018, 07:03:51 AM
Let's talk about "Inspirations".
Well this will be entertaining.
Quote
I think Tynan should revert it to previous versions. As of now, Inspirations are only triggered to pawns based on their skills that have a "Passion" to it, be it either Interested or Burning (Flame x1 or x2). This is because some people "complained", that Inspirations on skills of no Passion were a waste...This is debatable, because there's basically two types of players:
* The Cheesy player who at game start "re-rolls" dozens of times until he/she gets the "Dream Team".
* The Hardcore player who plays with the first five without "re-rolls" and would at least consider swamping with the "Left Behind" but no re-rolls.
There are other kinds of players that fit all along that spectrum. Only a Sith deals in absolutes :P
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In my opinion, the "Wasted Inspiration" is a complain that comes from the "Cheesy Players". Because if you play without re-rolls... it doesn't really matter which skill an inspiration triggers on, as in if it happens on a non-passion skill is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, if your first five characters are all of them bad at Cooking...and you suddenly get a Cooking Inspiration in one of them... it instantly becomes a "great opportunity" to rise one of your pawns as your "main cooker"...
Well for starters cooking inspirations don't exist, and secondly that's not at all how they function.
Quote
To me Inspirations are great opportunities to help grow a pawn in an area he is deficient at, and placing Inspirations on skills that already have a Passion...is kind of REDUNDANT...as either with or without the Inspiration event, he/she will still upgrade their skill levels... due to learning at 100% or 150%.
Go Frenzy, Shoot Frenzy, Inspired Creativity, Inspired Recruitment, Inspired Recruitment, and Inspired Surgery are the current inspirations. It's important to note that
none of those make your colonist better at a task in the long term.
In fact I think you've misunderstood what they do in general. Inspired Creativity, recruitment, and surgery are all 1-off events that make your colonist do something
once better than they usually would.
In fact, that's always what inspirations have done. They've never made your colonist better at something in the long term. You can rollback the system all you want, it'll still be as it is now :P
The previous system simply gave colonists bonuses almost at random - the main issues were Surgery and Creativity.
A pawn with 0 crafting/art/construction skill could get Inspired Creativity - They'd create an item that was 2 levels better than they usually would. Unfortunately they'd usually produce something Awful so the entire bonus resulted in a Normal quality item. Whoopie do. That's a waste. Objectively. Nobody was rewarded for that system - Not even your theoretical "hardcore" non-cheese" player.
The same applies to surgery - Someone who's incompetent at medicine could get a surgery inspiration. They're now 10x less likely to botch their next operation - The trouble is that if they had a 50% chance of botching it because they have 2 medicine skill then that 5% chance to botch the operation might still be worse than just using someone who was actually competent in the first place.
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It's at this point I should really mention that you can still get inspirations on people with garbage skill in the relevant category. Someone with 4 medicine skill can get a surgery inspiration.
The only difference is that now that person is more likely to get a surgery inspiration if they have a passion for it. Increasing the likelihood of the system doing anything useful at all.
Exactly what you claim to want can still happen - Someone with a passion for construction and 3 construction skill can get an inspiration. Good luck making it useful :P
I think inspirations should trigger on skills in which the pawns are high leveled, regardless of if they're passionate or not. Then they'll always be useful. Well unless you get inspired trading and no traders show up, but that always happens.
But what do I know. I'm a filthy casual who doens't even change the colors of his words.
Well in fact if you have allied factions - you can just call up a trader. Since it lasts for 8 days - they'll make it in time and you can make a bit of profit. And if you re extremely lucky - you get an orbital trader during that time and make a real nice profit. Though if inspired trade happens on lvl 4 pawn, when you already have lvl 15, it remains completely and utterly useless. If it were me i d make inspirations require at least 10 in skill. Probably will mod it to work like that.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 10, 2018, 07:50:48 AM
Well in fact if you have allied factions - you can just call up a trader. Since it lasts for 8 days - they'll make it in time and you can make a bit of profit. And if you re extremely lucky - you get an orbital trader during that time and make a real nice profit. Though if inspired trade happens on lvl 4 pawn, when you already have lvl 15, it remains completely and utterly useless. If it were me i d make inspirations require at least 10 in skill. Probably will mod it to work like that.
I actually modded inspirations to require 10 skill. Would actually be nice if they simply target the highest skill pawn... (or with the highest stat - meaning the 14 social guy could have higher trade price improvement than the 16 social guy due to reasons... e.g. missing body parts or bionics)
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 03:09:47 AM
How are you playing - just to grow indefinitely?
Not sure if it helps (if not please just delete my post) but i play since Alpha 5 or 6, have over 1000 hours in Rimworld but never build the spaceship to leave. I just want a big colony and see how long it can survive. Flying away never interested me.
@tynan ... For many of us the thrills of Rimworld is not the so called win "build a ship", travel to the existing ship and defending it is quite fun, but the thrill comes in building the biggest baddest base you can and see how long you can keep it alive. See how much you can take on before Rimworld destroys you.
If this is playing and building indefinitely then i guess that is how many of us play and that we want to shows you designed a great game.
There is talk of many cheesy things people do, such as take advantage of the way doors were but people can choose to play the way that makes them happy, the way they enjoy.
Personally i think someone playing on extreme keeping their colony wealth under 50k with 9 or under colonists on a 6-12 year old colony is not extreme at all. It plays like some challenge even though they are on extreme and cheesy.
Keeping dead animals in the freezer not butchered so it does not count as wealth with meat and leather is cheesy.
Keeping dirt floors in the bedrooms and putting in nothing but a bed and planting lilies on the dirt to cause the beauty and though they will never grow the beauty buff is there and it causes no wealth and keeps the colonist happy and the raids extremely low key is also cheesy.
I could go on and on but many of us love to build our extreme mega colonies and play this game to it's full potential. We love getting wiped out and doing it bigger and better but the new mechanoid changes are making this hard for us to do. No colony is endless, Rimworld eventually always takes us down somehow but it is nice to be able to build big to watch the big fall.
New build!
Thanks for all the info ongoing, especially from our newest first-post heroes.
One note - there is a new factor in the history graphs tab called Ramp-Up. This is a balancing factor that's only displayed in dev mode. It would be really good if anyone who plays a year+ game could screenshot this graph and post it here. Thank you.
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The change list is here for reference but discussion should please focus on experiences you're having in actual play. Thanks.
Refactor GetsPermanent HediffComp, centralized the tunables, and re-tuned it.
Fix: Some tools have null label and id.
Terrain-based attacks now have a constant chance to be chosen (instead of weighting by other attacks damage). Terrain-based attacks can now be used no more than once per 20 seconds.
Added dev mode-only ramp-up history recorder to help balance. Renamed some files to match their classes.
Remove some useless XML data.
Balanced up orbital bombardment and power beam targeters. Reworked bombardment targeter so the explosions come predictably instead of in random timings.
Remove unused weapon bulk stat.
Infestations are a bit tougher.
Anti-grain explosions have special huge damage and armor penetration.
Increase explosion armor penetration and damage.
Sniper turret now consumes uranium instead of steel.
Buff lavish meal mood impact.
Fix: Steel slag chunk smelting yields wrong count.
Fix: Every Thing lists a spurious accuracy stat.
Redesigned threat points ramp-up system so it should actually do something now. Defined the tuning per-storyteller in XML.
Fix: Debug output in CheckSpring.
Added tools debug output.
Melee attacks which deal higher damage are now much more likely to be chosen in melee combat.
Changed animal fleeing behavior. Player animals no longer flee from enemies on sight, so they can fight back. Animals now only flee from ranged weapons.
The prey search radius is now exactly the same as spawned food search radius to avoid situations where a predator is running past a spawned meat and hunts an animal.
Fix: Hives don't spawn initial insects.
Fix: Breath motes don't work.
Made sure that only pawns who can open doors close them.
Hives no longer die in winter.
Fix: Peace talks success letter doesn't mention all gifts.
Fix: Destroy bandit camp quest doesn't mention all rewards in the letter.
Changed predator hunting animal message to match the letter.
Increased predator hunt warning distance to 60 cells (we now send a message if it's hunting a colony animal).
Quote from: JavaWho on July 10, 2018, 09:18:55 AM
@tynan ... For many of us the thrills of Rimworld is not the so called win "build a ship", travel to the existing ship and defending it is quite fun, but the thrill comes in building the biggest baddest base you can and see how long you can keep it alive.
You should be careful with assuming how others play. You can talk a lot from your perspective but "many" people also play completely different and "many" people don't play for getting the biggest base with a bunch of mods and stackign everything possible.
And people will always say "my strategy is not cheese while others are". I have clearly seen enough of these arguments in the discord and it doesn't archive anything. Objectively both is cheese or may not. That depends on how the game is inteded to be and not how someone thinks there playstyle is right.
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I'm currently in a situation in my game where I feel lack of some content. My base is working, colonists have somewhat decent equipment and there is now a gap between getting everything going and being strong enough to go for the ship. I don't like just building more because I can.
At this point the colony should get more into exploring the world, doing quests, clearing camps, mining lrms sites. I would like to see the curve for world event stuff a bit moved so less in the first year and a bit more afterwards. I got too many good quests early that gave me way too much advantages and not it feels more boring. The game or the told story should have something like chapters, maybe even supported by research or triggering events (a bit like in age of empires where you advance into the next era but not that fixed). It's just an on-the-fly idea and may have potential for a nice mod if it's too special for the core game. For example:
Chapter/Year 1: Start and survive against nature (like mad animals, get enough food, shelter, ...)
Chapter/Year 2: Other factions get in touch with you, more raids, trading, ...
Chapter/Year 3: You have a decent base and start exporing the world for more valuable quest items, mining sites, ...
Chapter/Year 4: Becoming a powerful faction like the other on the planet. So have allies, fight strong raids, ...
Chapter/Year 5: Go for the ship
The game is already a bit like that. It's just that really good quest offers can let you jump really far ahead. I don't remember the day but my first quest (maybe day 9) gave me a megascreen tv and an excellent lmg. I could finishe the quest a quadrum later but still then the rewards were insane. They were nice but also destroyed a lot of the fun in progression.
Quote from: JavaWho on July 10, 2018, 09:18:55 AM
...
I could go on and on but many of us love to build our extreme mega colonies and play this game to it's full potential. We love getting wiped out and doing it bigger and better but the new mechanoid changes are making this hard for us to do. No colony is endless, Rimworld eventually always takes us down somehow but it is nice to be able to build big to watch the big fall.
Yes, thanks, I am aware that at least in the past, many or possibly most players never actually built the ship. It's a designed-in legit playstyle, it's just hard to design for since each test run takes ages and the runs tend to be heterogenous. So it's hard to get data.
Quote from: Mihsan on July 09, 2018, 09:50:10 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 09, 2018, 05:23:56 AMHumans can bite.
It just killed my best crafter in social fight. I might be biased right now, but 12.5 damage feels like too much for a bite - my pawn got killed before he was downed by pain. See attached picture.
Ye gads! It's like the crazed fool tore out his own ally's throat! Like some kind of wolf D:
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 05:04:29 PM
Thats also true. If you don't have one, or aren't lucky enough for storyteller to toss you one - you can get real stuck on research.
That's trade off / risk.
The same can be said that if You don't have a miner You get stuck on steel/stone blocks, if You don't have grower you get stuck on food growing, having no good doctor makes you stuck with dead/scarred pawns or if You have pawns with low shooting/melle you're stuck with little combat ability.
@Madman666: Like Tynan said in the change log, there's a new dev-only mode history graph which shows how the Storyteller ramp-up changes over time. Ramp-up is a factor which usually increases with time, but decreases when colonists are injured enough to be downed - in other words, when they're in a tough fight.
This basically means that when threats are too easy, future threats will be a little bit harder.
I don't know what exactly Tynan changed but you know, take a look at the new graph and see what happens if colonists get downed in a fight.
I agree with the quest thing.
I was able to procure three archotech implants through simple quests I could solve with only two pawns in year one. ( Randy Hard. )
Else I think Caravaning has changed for the better in many ways. The only thing thats keeps on happening to me is, that I miss the message when a caravan arrives at another settlement to trade.
Quote from: JavaWho on July 10, 2018, 09:18:55 AM
Keeping dead animals in the freezer not butchered so it does not count as wealth with meat and leather is cheesy.
That is more of technique to safe space then wealth when used with big animals.
A dead rhino uses up 1 tile of space. a butchered rhino consists of 270 meat and 90 leather which comes down to 4 Tiles of Meat and 2 Tiles of Leather.
Does The Ramp-Up Graph require a new Colony ?
Quote from: Lanilor on July 09, 2018, 10:31:50 PM
I would like to see more complexity, but I think the focus of rimworld isn't that much on research to invest much in it. Like the research boost in Civ 6 was a nice idea but turned out too much micro grinding for objectives.
Let's all be careful about assuming / presuming what the "Focus" of Rimworld is. That's Tynan's job. To quickly demonstrate -- I disagree with you. Research is an integral part of the game and can lead to victory or failure, easily in its own right. Didn't get Penoxycilin quick enough because you wanted to rush turrets? That disease just wiped your colony out. Etc.
This isn't Civ6. This is an entirely different game. Careful, making such comparisons in order to highlight a point -- the comparison becomes null and void. Beyond that -- how is, in any way, research micro-intensive? ??? It's part of the overall strategy and approach -- it's a major system and I believe you've possibly missed that point. Let's keep this to story-based experiences and feedback on changes.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 10, 2018, 10:24:34 AM
I agree with the quest thing.
I was able to procure three archotech implants through simple quests I could solve with only two pawns in year one. ( Randy Hard. )
Else I think Caravaning has changed for the better in many ways. The only thing thats keeps on happening to me is, that I miss the message when a caravan arrives at another settlement to trade.
Has anyone put in a suggestion for a letter alert on caravan arrival? Seems like a great idea.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 10, 2018, 10:24:34 AM
Quote from: JavaWho on July 10, 2018, 09:18:55 AM
Keeping dead animals in the freezer not butchered so it does not count as wealth with meat and leather is cheesy.
That is more of technique to safe space then wealth when used with big animals.
A dead rhino uses up 1 tile of space. a butchered rhino consists of 270 meat and 90 leather which comes down to 4 Tiles of Meat and 2 Tiles of Leather.
My thoughts exactly. Especially now that the butcher "until you have X" meat option works well without a mod. Gone are my days of butcher set to "do forever."
Quote from: MarvinKosh on July 10, 2018, 10:23:09 AM
@Madman666: Like Tynan said in the change log, there's a new dev-only mode history graph which shows how the Storyteller ramp-up changes over time. Ramp-up is a factor which usually increases with time, but decreases when colonists are injured enough to be downed - in other words, when they're in a tough fight.
This basically means that when threats are too easy, future threats will be a little bit harder.
I don't know what exactly Tynan changed but you know, take a look at the new graph and see what happens if colonists get downed in a fight.
Thanks! Will do.
@Tynan
Ramp-up does not seem to be an option for me... current graph with graph selection choices below
(https://i.imgur.com/mqSH5oa.jpg)
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 10, 2018, 10:24:34 AM
Else I think Caravaning has changed for the better in many ways. The only thing thats keeps on happening to me is, that I miss the message when a caravan arrives at another settlement to trade.
Maybe a trade screen auto. should open when you visit another outpost.
Your own caravan auto. enter the map when you select to enter it from the distance and don't wait for an enter order.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 10, 2018, 10:29:04 AM
Quote from: Lanilor on July 09, 2018, 10:31:50 PM
I would like to see more complexity, but I think the focus of rimworld isn't that much on research to invest much in it. Like the research boost in Civ 6 was a nice idea but turned out too much micro grinding for objectives.
Let's all be careful about assuming / presuming what the "Focus" of Rimworld is. That's Tynan's job. To quickly demonstrate -- I disagree with you. Research is an integral part of the game and can lead to victory or failure, easily in its own right. Didn't get Penoxycilin quick enough because you wanted to rush turrets? That disease just wiped your colony out. Etc.
This isn't Civ6. This is an entirely different game. Careful, making such comparisons in order to highlight a point -- the comparison becomes null and void. Beyond that -- how is, in any way, research micro-intensive? ??? It's part of the overall strategy and approach -- it's a major system and I believe you've possibly missed that point. Let's keep this to story-based experiences and feedback on changes.
Well, if you want to keep this to story-based experiences, you shouldn't have written that comment and by the way you didn't get at all what I was saying. Like it wasn't even a comparison, it was to give an example to more "complexity" than just letting a pawn stand on a stop for 3 days until a research is finished.
So the only effect your post had was to piss someone off. Congratulations.
Is the ramp-up graph already in the latest build?
Quote from: Madman666 on July 10, 2018, 05:25:30 AM
Well, as you ve seen - Tynan seems genuinely surprised, that people managed to hoard even more than a mil, not talking about 5 mils :D So I don't think he considered, that quite a lot of people actually played Rimworld in this style, not to win, but to last. Hence the changes to balance mostly made around completely different playstyle than we have. Thats of course only just my assumption. Can't read minds. To continue playing our way, without making it relatively short term "runs", we ll probably just have to rely on mods for the most part.
Aye. Different play styles should be considered viable. The long-term survivalists are every bit as "deserving" as the rest of the gang. I'd ask Tynan not to get so wrapped up in "win" conditions, as much as how the game plays throughout the virtual years (to provide all players the best experience up until making the choice.) Seems like win conditions could just be added upon and tweaked into that process, somewhat easily once it's in place and feels right -- an icing on the cake -- something available (and hopefully an extra bit of fun / unique situation like the ship start sequence) but, not necessary.
Ursula K. Le Guin — 'It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.'
Quote from: Lanilor on July 09, 2018, 08:38:51 PM
I agree with the trade stuff: While I wrote for the patch before that, that I got way to many offers, I now got only one world event in a year or even longer. Could just be back luck, but I think this is too rare.
Quote from: Fritigern on July 09, 2018, 08:14:49 PM
I haven't had a faction mission in 3 years and I am lucky to get a trade request every 1 year, and when I do get them they are almost always of no value to me.
These numbers look way off. On average you should get a world quest every 7 days (except during the first 25 days). I couldn't reproduce it though, not even with the "Log future events" debug option. Could you send me your savefiles?
Hi Tynan.
I really appreciate you for working new version 1.0.
I have some question at 1.0. No mod.
I am Japanese, and I`m not good at english, so if this question is not suitable,or wrong,
I apologize.
Question
There`s some critical error to play Rimworld 1.0ver in JAPANESE.
Is this error can be fixed? Does it takes for long time?
thank you
@error log ( in Create world:Generate)
Attach name:output_log_forTyan
:error2 .png
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 09:49:11 AMOne note - there is a new factor in the history graphs tab called Ramp-Up. This is a balancing factor that's only displayed in dev mode. It would be really good if anyone who plays a year+ game could screenshot this graph and post it here. Thank you.
I cant find it.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Lanilor on July 10, 2018, 10:00:41 AM
... clearing camps, mining lrms sites. I would like to see the curve for ...
I misread your comment as "destroying LRM sites" ... and it hit me! What would be cooler than having to "explore the world" and use the overland map to take out prereqs to launching the ship or some other win condition Saint Tynan may come up with for us ;)
Seriously, a requirement to take out one or multiple surface-to-air/space defense systems before one can even think about launching the ship. What about other challenges to launching, aside from this weird raidageddon? It'd be nearly as much work to travel all over the world to disable these systems. Maybe a way to disable the entire mechanoid resistance? Conquer some kind of global ECM factility?
This could also create more motivation to leave one's beginning tile.
Quote from: gadjung on July 10, 2018, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on July 09, 2018, 05:04:29 PM
Thats also true. If you don't have one, or aren't lucky enough for storyteller to toss you one - you can get real stuck on research.
That's trade off / risk.
The same can be said that if You don't have a miner You get stuck on steel/stone blocks, if You don't have grower you get stuck on food growing, having no good doctor makes you stuck with dead/scarred pawns or if You have pawns with low shooting/melle you're stuck with little combat ability.
100% agree. Trade-offs and risks. Ladies and gents -- start considering this aspect of design / play. In the immortal words of The Rolling Stones:
"You can't always get what you wa-ant!"
Hey guys,
The ramp-up graph doesn't work for existing saved games for some reason. It should normally plot a point every day. It does work with a new game.
Just finished a Cassandra Hard playthrough where I died at the hands of a raid.
**I'm not a die hard player. I don't know the stats differences between a parka and a button shirt, I just assume the parka is warmer. I usually do what I think is fun and interesting**
- I last played about 6 months ago. I've played A16 and up.
Synopsis of run:
I converted a raider who was then rebuffed so many times by a happily married colonist he killed our beloved cat. Everyone went crazy after that....
+ve's:
-Doors. Having less health makes sense and is actually more fun. You can still pop in and out to get shots off but any raid of substance and you either need to have constructed a bunker or be prepared for a proper fight. I like this change
- Combat. Prefer this set up where you can get away from melee fights without a scratch. However, i'm very unclear on the actual difference in armour. I mean, I know from reading on this forum the benefits, but I found ploughing through the stats on each item too arduous and so just equipped whatever sounded like it might help. Maybe this is my problem and I'm a simpleton, but if I'm relaxing playing some rimworld I'd like to know what an armour can do in one line (e.g. "this is good at stopping stab weapons but bullets go right through") because I don't find the minutiae of stat padding fun.
-I really like the combat log.
-very glad prosthetics are in
-bridges are great. Adds a whole new range of tactics
-ve's:
-possibly my fault; about 8 colonists got captured during a raid (I know), leaving me with 2. This was a fun point in the game as it was an epic battle i'd just survived. Only afterwards... nothing happened for absolutely ages. I appreciate I was given time to sort myself out as i'd screwed up but it was really boring. I'm not saying I should be instantly given more colonists again; I was equally as keen for another raid. But just my 2 guys plonking around a big base were extremely comfortable but couldn't make much progress either. Idk maybe its my fault for not downsizing or the fact the 2 remaining colonists were a bit rubbish. Maybe it was just this run, but I remember the game being a bit pacier (?spelling).
-speed. Relating to the above point, can we have a x4, x6 or x8 speed. I'm impatient yes, but I don't really need to see my colonists sleep. And if I've got a good routine set up, I'm often just waiting for my guys to, for example, collect x so i can build y, or research something. It feels like theres quite a lot of this and rather than mess with the whole balance of things by, for example, further changing research speed, I think speeding up more would be a very simple solution..
-Caravan. I still find this difficult to make viable unless you're already dominating the game. Its fun, which is why I do it, but I'm fairly certain my colony is much worse off for not having 2+ colonists doing their job for at least 10 days, let alone the resource cost and high chance of death or injury. Especially as the rewards rarely advance you colony, they're just cool things to have.
Overall this game keeps getting better and better. Thanks dev(s?) the constant work is much appreciated
Quote from: ison on July 10, 2018, 10:54:28 AM
Quote from: Lanilor on July 09, 2018, 08:38:51 PM
I agree with the trade stuff: While I wrote for the patch before that, that I got way to many offers, I now got only one world event in a year or even longer. Could just be back luck, but I think this is too rare.
Quote from: Fritigern on July 09, 2018, 08:14:49 PM
I haven't had a faction mission in 3 years and I am lucky to get a trade request every 1 year, and when I do get them they are almost always of no value to me.
These numbers look way off. On average you should get a world quest every 7 days (except during the first 25 days). I couldn't reproduce it though, not even with the "Log future events" debug option. Could you send me your savefiles?
Inversely, my latest game has recently seen four world quests in less than a fortnight. Maybe even in a shorter time period. It's a little overwhelming. How would you like the save files?
Also, still seeing additional threats on world events that weren't listed. Not sure if that's intentional. (E.g. "two turrets" was actually "Two turrets and a very well-geared Terminator guard." I'm not even far enough in to think about handling that guy.)
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 10, 2018, 11:37:51 AM
Also, still seeing additional threats on world events that weren't listed. Not sure if that's intentional. (E.g. "two turrets" was actually "Two turrets and a very well-geared Terminator guard." I'm not even far enough in to think about handling that guy.)
I just had one where it was two turrets, a mortar and a guy with a doomsday missile. Luckily I managed to beat the bad guys but I'd spent so long hiding underground that all my caravanners ran out of food and went crazy.
When i was digging in precious lump related incident files, i've seen it mention 1 guard (that "terminator" you were talking about). I've also seen one each time it mentioned just turrets, so i am pretty sure its intentional. Freak bit one pinky off of my team, when i forced him into melee.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 10, 2018, 12:03:13 PM
When i was digging in precious lump related incident files, i've seen it mention 1 guard (that "terminator" you were talking about). I've also seen one each time it mentioned just turrets, so i am pretty sure its intentional. Freak bit one pinky off of my team, when i forced him into melee.
Ah, man! LOL. These bites are hilarious!
Regarding late game wealth scaling, I think there's a reasonably natural solution that I haven't seen explicitly mentioned.
Raid wealth calculations could be modified based on the accessibility of the wealth.
Just to throw out numbers, loose metals and drugs could be 1.5-2x contribution, while heavy furniture like fancy beds (which aren't worth the wealth liability at the moment) could be reduced to 0.5. Meanwhile things like firepower and equipment and turrets could be somewhere over 1, explained by raiders seeing a dozen turrets and bringing a few extra guys.
I don't know exactly what effect that sort of thing would have on numbers in all stages of the game, but to be quite honest on my reasonable wealth hard colony the raid sizes seem almost under-tuned at the moment.
As it is right now I definitely feel while playing the drive to artificially keep my wealth low and to simply stop improving on the base in non-combat ways beyond a point. There's another wealth based motivator to keep resources spent which is definitely good though. It'd be nice to have fewer resource sinks be ruled out as strategically disastrous.
Edit:
Wealth graph
https://imgur.com/a/LUWQK2N
Boreal hard 30/60. Lost only one colonist to a raid, few limbs but not so much that I'm still making bionics
Edit2:
Decided to play a few mins since I opened up to look at wealth. I just got a 7 polar bear manhunter pack. They didn't even come close to touching my melee fighters and I have zero turrets online at the moment. Very undertuned imo.
Edit3:
Final edit. Trying to replace concrete with sterile tile. People removing one or two blocks of concrete and then going to move small numbers of materials to build tiles. Little inefficient priorities. I assigned remove floor but they're still prioritizng building the new one first.
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 10:02:16 AMYes, thanks, I am aware that at least in the past, many or possibly most players never actually built the ship. It's a designed-in legit playstyle, it's just hard to design for since each test run takes ages and the runs tend to be heterogenous. So it's hard to get data.
Just so you know, Tynan, I have 929 hours in RimWorld and I ALWAYS try to build the ship and take off. At times in 18 and earlier, I would give up if I couldn't get the core after completing the rest of the ship or I couldn't get enough of the scarce materials like gold or uranium and just start a new colony, but I never planned to go further and most of the time I did take off. I like doing this game with a beginning and a successful end. I don't enjoy dragging things out forever.
I've never tried the cross-country caravan to the polar ship, but the colony is what I play for. :D
Two small "bugs" I found in the last bits of playing
(1) if you have two colonists building walls, they can get pushed into the same tile (which needs a wall aswell) - and because it's two pawns on the tile, they don't build it... see attachments
(2) The forced miss radius of the autocannon turret is not symmetrical (it's a circle with radius 8 based on the south east corner of the autocannon) - same for the sniper turret - attachments again
[attachment deleted due to age]
Hi guys, playing unestable version 1.0 I'm unable to play since 10 minutes ago. Maybe the last update...
Debug trace:
Juli started 10 jobs in one tick. newJob=UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110075) A=Thing_Wall430495 jobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_AISapper jobList=(UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110065) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110066) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110067) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110068) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110069) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110070) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110071) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110072) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110073) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110074) A=Thing_Wall430495) (UseVerbOnThing (Job_4110075) A=Thing_Wall430495) lastJobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_AISapper
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.JobUtility:TryStartErrorRecoverJob(Pawn, String, Exception, JobDriver) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobUtility.cs:22)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:217)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.<GotoCastPosition>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Toils\Toils_Combat.cs:57)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:306)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:120)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:544)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:505)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
See you!
FYI, for those that can't find the Ramp Up tab:
To use the Ramp-Up tab in history, you need to first activate it in the view selections at the top of the screen while dev mode is on.
Dev Mode > Open the View Settings > 4th from last
my dogs are still exploding on IED traps https://i.imgur.com/oW8J33r.jpg
This can't be intended behaviour, right?
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 03:09:47 AM
How are you playing - just to grow indefinitely?
Sorry about my English. I'm French.
I have over 1500 hours of play and I never built the ship.
I'm playing a permanent dead randy hard.
I love building a huge bass and eventually dying and starting over.
I dream of being able to destroy all the tribes on the map but phantasms are not made to be realized!
Hi Tynan—a few bugs I have encountered in 1.0 builds so far.
- NPC pawns regularly spawn not equipped for the current cold weather. Raiders, visitors, and raid encounters during caravans have all spawned without the right gear for me. (e.g. warm to 16F but it is -4F out.)
- NPC pawns occasionally spawn without pants during otherwise well equipped raids (and they aren't wearing tribal wear to cover up).
- Deadfall traps do not display in the combat log.
- Enemy pawns hurt by mortar en route to my base become distracted and start attacking sandbags miles away from anything important.
- When launching a transport pod from a remote location to your base and hovering destination cursor over your base on the map, development console displays error: "Tried to get relation between faction ___ and itself."
- Faction relations take a hit when visitors/traders get killed by manhunting animals but not when killed by mechanoids. (Ideally, neither incident would hurt faction relations? Or both would, depending on how ruthless you are.)
Suggestions:
Would be nice to see where each shot landed in the combat log and the result of each shot. E.g. "
Tynan's bolt-action rifle bullet hit John in the right leg, [wounding/bruising/cracking/destroying] it." So more or less how Dwarf Fortress handles combat logs.
I have been playing since the Kickstarter days and love everything you have done with RimWorld over the years. Keep up the good work!
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 09:49:11 AM
Infestations are a bit tougher.
Sniper turret now consumes uranium instead of steel.
Why these changes in particular? To be brutally honest, Infestation + Overhead mountain are pretty much the worst part about Rimworld. And I'm scratching my head about uranium. Sure it makes steel no longer a requirement for sniper turret upkeep (I've seen a LOT of people complain about the lack of steel), but replacing it with one of the rarest resources in the game? Wouldn't plasteel make more sense?
The new update produced a lot of stuff in the debug log, so I took it as an invitation to start over. Here are some thoughts I had while playing my last colony. Thanks for all these updates and for creating this wonderful game!
Cassandra Medium, Crashlanded start, Temperate Forest on Mountainous terrain.
Colonists got the flu while I was out caravaning. I read on the patch notes that bedrolls help with deal with infections while out on a caravan, so thankfully I brought some along. About a day after getting the letter alerting me that colonists had the flu, I saw that even with ~60% tend quality, the flu was progressing further than immunity. Out of curiosity, I decided to rest the caravan until the colonists developed an immunity. This worked, and I thought it might be a neat opportunity to let players know they can rest their caravans while the caravans are out in order to specifically deal with medical emergencies.
I am playing on a medium (275x275 cell) map, and the two ships I've had land have landed in the exact same spot on the map. I tried constructing a wall around the first ship that landed, and left it up after it had been dispatched. The second ship, to my surprise, landed in the exact same spot, within the constructed walls. Not sure if it's a bug, but I thought I would share it.
A note about caravan requests: I love that these are popping up frequently for me, and in fact some trading options occur so frequently, I'd like some way to log them. Maybe another menu, or a list when I'm looking in the world would be awesome! I've completed two so far, and have another two in the process of being fulfilled. I just worry that I'll forget which settlement asked for what, and there's no distinguishing feature about settlements that request a caravan trade.
Quote from: erdrik on July 10, 2018, 01:32:34 PM
FYI, for those that can't find the Ramp Up tab:
To use the Ramp-Up tab in history, you need to first activate it in the view selections at the top of the screen while dev mode is on.
Dev Mode > Open the View Settings > 4th from last
No, it just doesn't work with existing saves for some reason. Turning on logging just logs the ramp-up to the output_log. :)
Quote from: MarvinKosh on July 10, 2018, 02:05:04 PM
Quote from: erdrik on July 10, 2018, 01:32:34 PM
FYI, for those that can't find the Ramp Up tab:
To use the Ramp-Up tab in history, you need to first activate it in the view selections at the top of the screen while dev mode is on.
Dev Mode > Open the View Settings > 4th from last
No, it just doesn't work with existing saves for some reason. Turning on logging just logs the ramp-up to the output_log. :)
Hmm weird, I started a new game for that test but I can't replicate now. I guess I was mistaken.
:P
My level 10 (melee) brawler with mace has quite hight tendency to cut limbs clean, instead of crippling people. I don't see any statistics about damage type, but I hope we will get some non/less lethal weapons back.
That would be weird if rampup graphing worked with existing saves, it's not like the game code can go back in time and see what your rampup was before it decided recording it ::)
Not a whole lot of action recently, having a randy lull through the fall and spring. I end up managing to actually get that 1100 patchwork leather by killing all of the wildlife on the map before winter, so I send two dudes to carry it over.
I end up wiping out the initial bugs in the cave. Their hives died off in the coldest part of fall, so some started starving to death. But then they started eating their own corpses lol. So since I wanted to mine some of that sweet steel I ended up meleeing them with some turret support.
While it is true that the new caravans are very worth it, they're crazy risky so I don't think they need to be nerfed. Right after this event I get a raid that would have crushed me with just my two dudes out on caravan if I decided against moving into the caves before securing the area with cannons.
One of the raiders was pretty fail, though ::) He started the battle with go-juice and dashed ahead of his fellows. Because it was snowing and they were at the opposite end of the map, he gets to my base waaaay before everyone else and instantly dies to cannon fire, seend in below pic.
There's a whole bunch of caravan requests open, some for some very nice stuff, but since it's winter and I can't bring my plate armor, I'm not sure I want to get ambushed while wearing parkas, I let a few expire.
Notably, there is an outpost which has an A.I. component for a reward with 3 enemies because I got it right at the start of the game. Oddly it is still at 3 enemies, so it looks like outposts stay indefinitely and do not scale after the initial setting, which means I can wait for a while and then utterly crush it like a little ant. 8)
[attachment deleted due to age]
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943951428507037825/C39379B3767674D7F8781A1B17868317B5B50942/) Latest colony graph image.
Had a weird event. I installed a turret in my prison room because it was getting a little crowded (3 prisoners, half my colony on caravan to see if I can snag a vanopowerthingy) and instantly there was a prison break. Not 100% sure if it was related. Some faction buddies called to help out with a previous raid decided to then kill my prisoners -_____- Oddly, when I started meleeing the prisoners to knock them out, I get "the tribespeople from blah blah are fleeing", which was one of my prisoners, who then was shot to death by a faction buddy.
Overall not sure if anything should be changed, but it looks like something is buggy with that fleeing event?
[attachment deleted due to age]
I don't know if the ramp up graph is working or not I enabled it in dev mode and even started a new game and it still isn't showing up.
I just ran into a really strange and major bug. A pawn is instantly dying from non-lethal well bandaged wounds hours after the fact. It's a scyther blade cut that is suddenly becoming a 9999 scar without warning. Then having a leg disabled kills the pawn. Dev mode tool heal random instantly kills the pawn. Restore body part seems to have saved her.
Pictures and also debug log from it happening in dev mode.
https://imgur.com/a/ceEYnvj
Manhunter pack! A single hare. My booamlope slapped it and it instantly died. Randy Extreme.
I guess my two pawns, both sick, aren't worth much, huh.
First major threat (manhunter pack/ raid) is always essentially nothing.
Caravan spawns with "one" unit of Hyperweave...really?
(https://i.imgur.com/iCGbqM9.png)
I think in all my games... I only tailored less than 5 apparels of this material ever.
Whee, had my first caravan raid since like, forever. Ended up raiding a turreted area to claim a vano power cell and power armor helmet. Apparently mortars just count as "turrets" on the caravan description, which was a bit scary since I wasn't expecting it, so I had to rush them. A guy got hit with a long sword but I brought enough medicine.
Worth it? Maybe (3 guys out for 5 days, got raided again while they were out, risk of mortar death and swordy death), but it was fun :) The infinite power cell is pretty nice for a cave fort so maybe it was worth doing *shrug*
[attachment deleted due to age]
Say @Tynan, I just found a ship chunk deep in a cave (see image), with mountain overhead. How did that get there? Is that intended behaviour?
https://imgur.com/a/ZoVUOXA (https://imgur.com/a/ZoVUOXA)
Impressions regarding perceived disparity between Sapper Raids vs. Sieges (Cassandra/Hard/Temperate Forest - Day 184, Colony Wealth Totaling ~76k):
My colony of 6 just encountered a Sapper Raid of 14 Pirates (2 toting grenades, 1 Incendiary, 1 Sniper Rifle, 1 Bolt-Action Rifle, various Shotguns and Machine Pistols). My colonists were considerably outgunned, out-armored, outnumbered, and no defensive cover or choice of strategy was enough to overcome those advantages. In 11 out of 12 tries, lasting over several hours, using different tactics, different weapons combinations, different defensive cover, etc. - 11 of 12 attempts to defeat the raid were a full colony wipe.
A common occurence was the Sappers themselves throwing grenades into mixed piles of my colonists engaging in Melee with other pirates, with both Pirates and Colonists getting fragged and downed. The Level 8 shooter Pirate equipped with a sniper rifle was regularly 1-shotting and downing colonists on the very first shot, with the bolt-action rifle toting Pirate having similar success. Having any pawn using doors for cover seemed to be a bullet magnet...it felt like using doorways at all actually increased the chances of getting shot.
I restart from the save one minute prior to the Sapper Raid.
As expected, the game generates a raid at about the same time as before, with the identical colony wealth...this time, it's a Siege. 7 Pirates, relatively lightly armored, and similarly equpped regarding weapons (machine pistols, shotguns and revolvers). I go out to engage them in the field before their supplies are dropped (Steel/Turrets/Components/Shells), and on Attempt 1, I manage to kill 6 and capture 1, with two minor casuaties on my side. My cover was nothing more than some stone chunks, and my tactics were fairly primitive.
I'm not sure whether Sapper raids feel very OP at the moment, or whether Sieges feel similarly underpowered, but I'm perceiving a significant disparity in the threat levels of each.
My night owl colonist is angry for being awake during the day, despite being in bed in a closed room...
It would make more sense if that debuff dissapeared when the colonist gets in bed instead of waiting for it to sleep.
His current work schedule said sleep at the time of the screenshot.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: rdshea3 on July 10, 2018, 06:14:34 PM
I just ran into a really strange and major bug. A pawn is instantly dying from non-lethal well bandaged wounds hours after the fact. It's a scyther blade cut that is suddenly becoming a 9999 scar without warning. Then having a leg disabled kills the pawn. Dev mode tool heal random instantly kills the pawn. Restore body part seems to have saved her.
Pictures and also debug log from it happening in dev mode.
https://imgur.com/a/ceEYnvj
I'm having this same major bug. My prisoner died from a stab wound that was already bandaged. They're currently counting down on an immunity from an infection; not sure if that's part of it?
I'm playing on Cassandra extreme, naked brutally.
I called my shot too close in the initial raid and allowed my colonist to get melee-ed. She got downed, and the raider left the map with her. I expected the end-game message. Instead, I got an "offer shelter" message, which I obviously agreed to.
Am I just extremely lucky or is this an intended feature?
Quote from: seerdecker on July 10, 2018, 07:51:07 PM
I'm playing on Cassandra extreme, naked brutally.
I called my shot too close in the initial raid and allowed my colonist to get melee-ed. She got downed, and the raider left the map with her. I expected the end-game message. Instead, I got an "offer shelter" message, which I obviously agreed to.
Am I just extremely lucky or is this an intended feature?
Technically, there is no game over condition. You can continue playing even without pawns and wait for "wanderer joins" or "chased refugee" event.
Quote from: Radishgast on July 10, 2018, 07:22:21 PM
Quote from: rdshea3 on July 10, 2018, 06:14:34 PM
I just ran into a really strange and major bug. A pawn is instantly dying from non-lethal well bandaged wounds hours after the fact. It's a scyther blade cut that is suddenly becoming a 9999 scar without warning. Then having a leg disabled kills the pawn. Dev mode tool heal random instantly kills the pawn. Restore body part seems to have saved her.
Pictures and also debug log from it happening in dev mode.
https://imgur.com/a/ceEYnvj
I'm having this same major bug. My prisoner died from a stab wound that was already bandaged. They're currently counting down on an immunity from an infection; not sure if that's part of it?
Yep, today one of my colonists died from a bandaged shotgun wound to the leg. Something is up.
A colonist got cheated on with a friend of her. Both are still good friends while the hate on the ex fiance is at -100.
Shouldnt the cheated one get a big social debuff with the cheating friend as well?
Researching seems really fast at higher levels. Cassandra blessed me with a level 11 burning passion researcher with a level 16 researcher who isn't good for much else. She turns the crank on the research table at remarkable speed. In no time I'm researching tech I have no intention of using for several quadrums at least.
I'm loving the changes, I think the new armor system and weapon overhaul is a huge step in the right direction.
I still have some feedback/suggestions:
- Many values of course need some reworking, especially penetration and stopping power. While I can see that balance is more important than realism, the lighter guns should still have at least *some* stopping power, I'd think a pistol would be able to at least stagger a rat.
- The pump shotgun still feels bad, basically a worse revolver. It's penetration of 9 is really weird, as it's less than even a bare fist or bashing with the shotgun's stock :D. I like that it has a lot of stopping power, perhaps it should have even more damage while keeping the penetration very low to really carve out its niche. Or maybe just have it actually fire 8 weak, poorly penetrating shots at once; the new penetration system should make such a thing balanced (maybe even 0 or "negative" penetration?) in a way that makes it distinct from say a heavy smg
- Others have touched on the melee weapons being too simplified; I'm not as well versed in them, but having them all have a default speed of 2 seems a little too much, as it makes them for the most part strict upgrades which seems out of the spirit of the game. Also I still can't tell what this "weapon melee bulk" stat actually does, I've yet to see anyone demonstrate what it actually does. I do like though how guns can't be fired in melee.
- Again, I've seen others mention clothing being too simplified; I do think a lot of the new balance is a step in the right direction, some things may still be a little much, for example how parkas are basically just strictly better jackets now (minus the cost and such, which aren't that big a deal)
All-in-all, the changes are certainly a lot of good thus far, especially with the animals (I GET A WARNING WHEN I GET HUNTED NOW, YAY!). The new faction system is a massive improvement, now it actually matters in a way that isn't just "donate tons of money and you'll forgive all the slaves we took from you lmao". Yet to actually get a caravan going due to being snowed in, but soon we shall embark to kill some bandits.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 10, 2018, 08:02:40 PM
A colonist got cheated on with a friend of her. Both are still good friends while the hate on the ex fiance is at -100.
Shouldnt the cheated one get a big social debuff with the cheating friend as well?
No I don't think it should always do that, maybe like 50% of the time.
Does shooting skill affect mortars or is there anywhere to make them more accurate or do you have to compensate with just more and more till all your colonists have a mortar to man on a siege?
It would be nice if there was some way to get more accurate mortars or something.
I had a raid come in with a single raider with nimble, 5 melee, 2% blunt protection, and a 20% revolver vs my naked brawler, 7 melee, and a wooden club. It went about how I was expecting and it came down to whoever got the last hit in would win.
Nimble is an interesting, albeit niche, trait. However, It seems to be extremely powerful within that niche. Granted it does fall off at level 20 melee, with the non-nimble having 30% dodge and the nimble at 38%, but as it stands now nimble takes the crown as the premier melee trait in my mind and I would choose it over brawler every time for a melee pawn.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 10, 2018, 08:34:02 PM
Does shooting skill affect mortars or is there anywhere to make them more accurate or do you have to compensate with just more and more till all your colonists have a mortar to man on a siege?
It would be nice if there was some way to get more accurate mortars or something.
The mortar is strong enough.
Clearly the accuracy rate is low. However, damage and range and Area Effect are very large. If you hit one or two of them somehow, you can win the fight.
Many people use one while testing the mortar. It is awfully useless. But if you shoot more than four mortars at the same time, it will show very high accuracy. In a safe place!
The rain of death from the sky!
The mortar is beautiful. great. cool.
In the Korean rimworld community, mortars are called god-mortar. If you want to know why you call it, try 10 or more mortars.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 10, 2018, 06:32:45 PM
Caravan spawns with "one" unit of Hyperweave...really?
It's because the trader generates 1-2 items with this tag. Hyperweave should be excluded and handled in a single def. I wrote that a few pages back. I'm sure Tynan put it in the backlog.
My hunter decided that shooting a boomalope at point blank is a good idea. It wasn't.
A little fix I noticed... On the tailoring bench instead of making a parka out of muffalo wool, it should be blufur. In the ingredients menu, it still reads 'muffalo wool'.
It is not a big thing because the recipe still works, but should def be changed for clarity.
I am playing on the latest 1.0 unstable build.
Bluefur is muffalo leather. Muffalo wool is... well, wool.
High Explosive shells and blowing up ships and mechanoids then and now:
https://clips.twitch.tv/DeliciousAntsyClintmullinsPJSugar Pandora Extreme story teller but acts the same way with Cassy Extreme and 24 high explosive shells around the ship.
Now I dropped my cassy down to medium to show this point and here are the pics with 42 shells around the ship. No Centipedes, 2 scythers and nearly twice the amount of shells and neither scyther died. The pendulum has swung quite far.
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/948455146963515416/509152A8E1A6D62CBA6AB06EB6F7D6A55949EBBD/)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/948455146963518642/D2F2C8947203807EBB7CEBC5A372E3B9CB2A3BF4/)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/948455146963520347/9746C84CC62DEC32B373AF98FF85F65B41C7E28F/)
Totally caught me off guard with the new mental break "Gave up".
You forgot to add it on the change list.
By the way, when i tried to recapture a colonist on the leave, she entered berserk mode, then we beat her and she came back to the colony instantly. I figured that she wouldnt belong here anymore and talking her into coming back was going to be necessary.
Seems like "gave up" behaves like a normal mental break and doesnt change the faction of the pawn at all.
Rich Explorer - Randy - Hard
Small hills, Tundra with a ~20day growth period under ideal conditions
build 1946 - 1950, 1958 - 1961
I wanted to rush to Autocannon turrets to see how these new weapons performed, so I picked Rich Explorer. It turned out to be a lot harder than that and what I got was an interesting Amazon women colony.
I picked the most capable pawn of the 8 and she ended up being an 18 year old Urbworld urchin named "Mac". Filled with bravado and a shiny new charge rifle, her first act was to crack the ancient danger she landed next to with a vicious warg by her side. Much to her surprise, it was empty and only contained artifacts and ancient sleep caskets. I respected the spirit of the rich explorer and had her build a nice bed, a horse shoe pen, and proper storage all in the first day. Very soon, Nails the architect showed up chased by enemies. She was a very competent builder, decent cook and a welcome addition. Almost the next day Kazumi came chased by enemies as well. We killed her 3 rather well armed captors quickly and learned she was also a good builder, grower, and negotiator. However, the one thing we lacked was a good miner. Mac could do it in a pinch (level 3) but it was so slow. There were also virtually no trees and we cut down all the ones we could find. Within the first 5 days we had power and electrical stove and refrigerated storage. We had separate bedrooms as soon as possible as well. Everything had to be made of stone, even the beds, because steel was at a premium and wood was used up very quickly. Things were going along OK, then a dark shadow from Nails past caught up to her. Teddy, her drug addicted pimp husband wandered in. He ruined the whole mood of the place. However his excellent shooting skills and good doctoring abilities kept us from kicking him out. How Nails got her artificial heart is a story they keep between themselves even to this day.
With 4 colonist and a need for more room, we decided to crack open the sleep caskets. Of the 6, 2 were dead, 2 were incapacitated, and 2 were hostile. We caught the hostiles in crossfire and they never had a chance. We were able to strip off their power armor before they expired giving us a significant boost to defense. We recruited the downed female to add to our young Amazons (even though she is technically quite old). However, after a raid destroyed our stonecutting table, we were so resource constrained that we actually had to build one out of silver. Seven hundred silver was a small price to pay to be able to have building materials again though.
Time went on, more women joined the colony, Teddy got over his addiction without too many mental breaks and proved himself a worthwhile exception. Then we hit our first deep winter. Our population had grown beyond what we had planted for and all the animals had left the map due to the extreme cold. We prayed to Randy, but he only brought us raw drug material. So we resorted to digging up frozen (and somehow perfectly preserved) corpses. Cannibalism did not sit well with the colony. Several people went a little crazy after that, but we got ourselves back together just in time for spring planting. We doubled our planting area and hoped that we didn't grow too much before the next deep winter. Finally mid way through our 2nd year we finally had enough spare steel and components to build the auto-turret.
We built the auto-turret after a wave of attacks, but then quiet. Next we got 2 sieges and 2 poison ships. We fought them off in where they landed. However, no real raids to see just what that bad boy would do. It probably didn't help that we were neutral with all factions but the pirates by this time. Then a week long suspended animation fell over the colony (vacation). When they awoke (to build 1958) they could sense things were different. We had lost some knowledge of simple things, like complex clothing and more complex things like micro-electronics and auto-turrets. However, our expert researcher was able to regain the knowledge quickly. She even discovered a new type of turret with a bit more research.
Before the break we had been 7 colonists (6 female and Teddy) midway through our 2nd fall. After the break in rapid succession, 2 more females wandered in. The last was a fast-learning cannibal and she thought our winter shame sounded like a delicious treat. In the midst of winter, the raiders finally came. We had researched and built a sniper turret to compliment the auto-turret. The raid was not what we expected though. It was a mass of very poorly outfitted all melee pirates. Outnumbered 5 to 1, we did our best against them. We had upgraded to assault rifles for all competent shooters and arrayed the shooters along our eastern side of the base hiding in doorways and the corners. Our 2 melee specialists waited for the raiders to close in. The auto-turret did do some serious damage to the mass of raiders but they quickly closed and surrounded it, beating it to smithereens before it could explode. Eventually we shot enough raiders that they gave up. The decisive blow was from the sniper turret which killed 4 raiders in quick succession (one shot, one kill). Half our colonist were downed. We begrudgingly captured the lone male raider left alive since he could mine so well. However, as soon as he was healed up a pirate merchant showed up with an even more capable woman miner. We gladly traded him for her and parted with a bit of silver. Just after trading away that pirate, the melee pirates returned for a second raid using "sappers". However, they were still just melee armed and half of them had fought us in the earlier raid. They attacked from the east where the sniper turret got to show off just how powerful it was. We lined up shooters squad style near the sniper turret and mowed them down before they got to melee range. There were no raiders to capture when the shooting was over.
In the midst of hauling away the corpses and loot we got 2 caravan requests. One for power armor in exchange for a legendary charge lance and another for 21 t-shirts in exchange for a legendary assault rifle, bionic eye, and something else. Kazumi walked the power armor over to the nearby village and then we worked through the winter on the t-shirts. We had to make over 35 t-shirts to finally get the 21 normal or better ones. In the deep winter, we again had under planted, and had to resort to cannibalism. This time we had a corpse freezer filled with potential meals and a cannibal to butcher up the people. No one went crazy this time but some people came close. At the first spring thaw, Kazumi again delivered the goods, solo ninja style, to the nearby tribe.
The next year our goal was to not resort to cannibalism. We doubled the planting area again. In the fall, we got 2 more caravan requests. One for 11 flak pants in exchange for several bionics and the other for 23 button-down shirts in exchange for 2 resurrector serum. Having tested the auto-turret and found it not really worth the resources and upkeep for my colony, I gave myself the goal of completing the trade requests and not having to eat people. I made both my goals, though just barely. I never have much cloth unless I buy it. So I had to complete the shirt request first and then buy all of the cloth I could find to make the flak pants. I had to wait until spring for travel times to be reasonable and made the flak pants exchange with 0.5 days remaining. With the newly acquired bionics installed and a happy colony of strong women (and Teddy) we bid farewell to this little outpost starting a promising 4th year. We didn't resort to cannibalism and every woman is wearing a flak vest and thrumbofur parka for excellent sharp armor protection. They survived 18 raids and 20 major threats with only 1 pawn kidnapped and no pawns killed.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 10, 2018, 09:53:38 PM
Totally caught me off guard with the new mental break "Gave up".
You forgot to add it on the change list.
By the way, when i tried to recapture a colonist on the leave, she entered berserk mode, then we beat her and she came back to the colony instantly. I figured that she wouldnt belong here anymore and talking her into coming back was going to be necessary.
Seems like "gave up" behaves like a normal mental break and doesnt change the faction of the pawn at all.
Nah, that's been in the game since b18, maybe earlier. It's an extreme break only, which is why you may not have noticed it.
Hey everyone! Another first time poster, long time lurker. This is the first time I've actually been on the forums and have only read through this thread. Also, this will largely be unedited! Because I am lazy.
Anyway, I just wanted to try to provide some feedback but I'm not sure if my playstyle may be appropriate. I want to say I'm a casual player. While I have around 700+ hours on Steam, it is somewhat inflated because I have a bad habit to leave the game on and that I have developed a very slow playstyle. I started during A17 and I used to always play Crashlanded on Cassandra Rough/Intense but I have been enjoying the early game challenge of scenarios like Rich Explorer or Naked Brutality (except with clothes). The Extreme difficulty interested me but I dislike the idea to have to optimize. I'd rather play less optimally even if it makes it more difficult. For example, I always try to have a unique bedroom for each pawn and I always researched carpets first because it must look nice. I always try to choose a map tile that is mountainous with caves and has a river. A road is a bonus! This is not to have a more inherently easier playthrough; I just enjoy seeing these features a lot. I have a tendency to ramble on.. but another thing I want to say is that I've gotten used to playing at 1x speed the whole time. Especially with a small population, I get more attached to the pawns and like seeing what they do throughout the day.
Lastly, I've gotten into a habit during B18 to make a kind of short story for each day. This was mostly for a friend who likes to hear them and its fun for me to write. Below are the first four days of my playthrough ._. Again, I'm not sure if this would provide well enough feedback since it'll go slowly. I tried to add anything I've noticed in each day. Please let me know if it's too slow-paced to be of any use!
Scenario: Naked Brutality
Difficulty: Intense (Really Hard) -> I also prefer the old names for the difficulties
Storyteller: Cassandra
Map Tile: Tropical Rainforest, 50/60 Growing Period, Mountainous, Caves, Huge River, Stone Road, 275x275
Original Pawn: Marielle "Mari" Rineheart, Biological – 16, Chronological -64
Starting build: 1.0.1959 (technically 1.0.1958 but I had the save at spawn)
No mods
Day 0: A dilapidated ship floated in the gravity well of a rimworld. On closer inspections, one would see the burn marks of plasma and the inward facing holes caused by breaching pods. It was a simple civilian transport ship that had the unlucky fate of meeting a mechanoid-ran ship. It was a quick slaughter as the security personnel were easily overran by the scythes and lancers. Some of the crew tried to hide in the cryptosleep caskets but the devices weren't fast enough to hide the biosignals from the mechanoids. The few that were already in cryptosleep had to also survive the carnage. Mari was one of these rare few. She was about to undergo minor surgery when the alarms went off. By protocol, the doctors placed her in a cryptosleep casket inside a drop pod. There she has been in an unsuspended state for 64 years before imminent structural failure was detected. The pod self-launched to the rimworld.
[For Mari's stats, she only has a story writer backstory since she is 16. Her traits are: masochist, greedy, and brawler. I was curious about the new melee changes. From her readings, she developed a burning passion for animals and a naïve dream of being the next Joan of Arc (melee). She also had interest in creating (building/crafting),spelunking (mining), and learning more (intelligence). She had basic knowledge of medicine, plant, and cooking and only talked briefly with other kids her age about the stories she wrote. A lot of this background stuff is forcing a story but it wasn't meant to be this long :/)
Day 1: A confused Mari first followed a huge river leading away from the northern mountains. Civilizations were sure to be near rivers. Better yet was when she stumbled upon a road. While the river led south, the road led northwest or southeast. Choosing to take the northeast route, she crossed a bridge spanning the river. She didn't travel far though as a rain and fog slowly built up over the day and she essentially backtracked up north. Losing motivation from the downpour, she made a small wooden hut by a rocky outcropping to sleep and wait out the rain. Remembering the survival books she read, she had already gathered some ripe berries on her walk.
-enjoy the berries in the tropical rainforest. I have a current playthrough in the same biome and it didn't have any harvestable wild plants (i.e. berries/agave)
Day 2: Mari stared into the campfire (relaxing socially), imagining the great stories she will tell of this adventure, if she got back alive. Today she had woken up hungry. The rain was still pouring outside and she had to make a sad (and messy cuz she botched one harvest) search for more berries. She was able to roast the berries just right tho and enjoyed a much better (simple) meal for lunch. While eating, she realized she was still naked and not at all prepared for any type of journey. She decided to stay at her hut for a bit while she gathered more food and maybe clothes from the nearby wildlife. From the smell of the roasted berries, a tuttle wandered inside her hut (the door was left open because the campfire raised the temperature). Having a soft spot for tuttles, Mari petted it and gave it a berry (dat tuttle shall be hers). For the rest of the day, Mari gathered more wood and made a lil shed for excess wood (wood is inside a building and out of Mari's hut). She also made a bow but was woefully terrible at shooting (also cuz I forgot she's a brawler). She'll stick with a trusty log for now. Before ending her second day, she remembered a nature book about fertile grounds by rivers. She saw some near her hut and planned a few rice crops for now (I have no idea how to explain how she has seeds, or how she beats down trees and rocks like nothing).
-a nice QoL feature would be some way to distinguish rich soil more quickly.
-I noticed the hide/expand/shrink zone options when a zone is clicked on. While I appreciate the multiple options available now, it feels like it's starting to lean toward U.I. clutter? for just clicking a zone. The same with clicking on a bed with the added end table/dresser options. The most noticeable to me is the order options where it goes into two rows, the upper row just being the remove plans option.
-Never smoothed floors or used the smooth walls mod. It seems to take too long and I rather just mine the rock and build a wall. That's probably due to the low construction level of Mari though
-Door closing speed is a bonus for small stockpile zones as colonists can get an item and leave before it closes.
Day 3: the rain had finally stopped but Mari was still soaking wet. This time it was from sleeping with the campfire still going inside her hut (sweating and slept in the heat debuffs :/). She took a very brief wash in the cold river and dried by dimming campfire as she figured out what to do today. The highest priority was obtaining more food. She explored the area and found many berry bushes. She chose a group that was a bit farther away so she could always have some nearby. Seeing the tuttle from yesterday still near, she offered it some berries. It ate some and continued its wandering, not appreciating her snack. Mari worked a bit sadder now throughout the day gathering more wood. She was able to establish a little outdoor eating area with a (1x2) table and a stool. She gots to eat a late lunch being somewhat comfortable now. As nighttime approached, Mari wasn't sure what to do. She shaped some wood into a wooden club and was working on making the inner walls of her hut not so jagged (rock walls). By the time she finished one [tile] of the rocky surface, she was shocked to find a very wet lady in a parka (visitor) outside her hut. The lady acted a bit rough when she talked and only spoke in short phrases. She seemed to have a basic understanding of Mari's language. What Mari got from the conversation was that the lady was following a drop pod she saw in the sky and went down (spawned) in the river. She saw Mari's fire and wanted to warm up. She also showed keen interest in the clubs and bow that Mari crafted. She offered an herbal medicine. Unsure why the lady was interested in all these pieces of wood, Mari just accepted. Mari and the strange lady chatted late into the night until the lady left in the morning. The lady followed the road southeast.
[A tribal lady from the gentle tribe faction spawned in the river and came down to Mari's wooden hut. Still afraid of that one manhunting squirrel, I had Mari a chop down wood and craft a few more clubs to trade for a herbal medicine. She was casually eating her dinner at 4 a.m. in-game time. From the visitor, I realized that the gentle tribal faction had a colony just further up the road and that the lady left on the opposite side.]
-just a silly thought on how a nude pawn could be sweating from increased temperature in a room but more clothes would fix that.
-the white text notification for the % chance of a failed taming attempt doesn't show on animals like capybaras or turtles so far. I forget if it was already addressed in this thread. While I understand the danger, new players would only know when the manhunting effect occurs, if the mechanic is still in play for these animals.
-also, I noticed the taming dialogue has been changed a bit! I enjoy seeing social interactions between pawns and now they can be seen with animals (even if it's just for taming and maybe training?)
-As mentioned by someone before, it is odd that a roof built outdoor will have 0% light under it regardless of the current sunlight.
-I like the old art for silver after seeing it. However, this feels like what one would see from getting it raw and the old art was after molding/refining it.
-Noticed that Mari needs only 0.85 to reach full nutrition/food. Is this due to her biological age of 16?
-as told above, the visitor from the gentle tribal faction came through the river. The head of the river is inside a mountain so it was the only passable terrain on the northside
Day 4: It was near noon when a groggy Mari was seen walking out of her hut. She stayed up too long with the visitor but she still gotta survive. For now she had a basic to-do list. First she washed up in the river and dried by the campfire, which is outside the hut. Afterwards she'd look for more berries. She found another group of bushes a bit farther away, but she was able to collect enough berries for a couple days. It was when she was roasting her berries that she encountered her first danger. A wandering ravenous chinchilla (mad animal) caught the scent of the roasted berries. Mari tried to gently feed it but the thing jumped at her. She quickly swatted it aside before rushing back into her hut. The furball scratched at the door for a bit before it went quiet. Peeking outside, Mari didn't see it. Not taking chances though, she quickly hauled the (1x2) table and stool inside. Just as she set the stool down and the door closed, she heard more frantic scratching. It really wanted her roast berries. Not sure when it'll calm down, Mari decided to smooth out more the rocky walls. When Mari finally decided to leave the hut, it was nighttime and she saw the chinchilla sleeping in the rain outside. Mari fashioned some more wood into a club so she could kill the furball. It went without a hitch and Mari went to sleep triumphant.
Also, one of Mari's conversations with a tortoise she tried to tame that day:
"Mari tried to make the tortoise sit still. The tortoise refused.
Mari gestured gently and approached the tortoise.
Mari came near the tortoise while talking to herself about demons.
Mari approached the tortoise while whispering to herself about the link between femininity and dead loved ones."
[Mari was already inside her hut long before the mad chinchilla came. It took a bit of micro to get the table and stool inside because I wanted to avoid the not eating at a table debuff. I kind of risk this playthrough by trying to tame that turtle and when I decided to melee the sleeping chinchilla while it slept.
-Typo: when hovering over the Recreation bar in the Needs tab, it says "Recreation is the need [to] have fun."
-Issue with attempting to tame a turtle while the pawn is hungry and without food in the pawn's inventory. Mari obtains berries for the turtle and proceeds to consume food because it is in her inventory. This was also an issue before in B18 where obtaining the food to tame with is a job task and the pawn goes to the highest priority job after the food is obtained.
-Updating issues with the (social/combat) log. After fighting the chinchilla and checking the chinchilla's log, I checked the log for Mari. It still showed the log for the chinchilla until I changed any of the filters. A bit more testing showed that it'll update between Mari and the turtle I'm trying to tame, but it'll not update when switching between the dead chinchilla and Mari/turtle.
I want to thank the developers, Tynan and team, for all the hard work they've done creating this game! For any of you who read through to the end, I also want to say that I've read through every post on this thread and each of Tynan's new builds reflects that he reads through all of them too! (not that I doubted that tho :/)
Hi there folks. Been really enjoying the changes in the unstable so far. I join you alarmed to find a colonist had randomly died of wound scarring (my colonists usually don't get scars, not sure why the colonist did here). I see others have encountered it too, so I'll put mine on the pile to hopefully help in the diagnosis.
Cassandra - Medium - Version 1.0.1960 (started 1.0.1959)
Attached is the wound report of Muse. Muse was in a social fight with Squirt and suddenly died 1.6 days later. The wound in question was bandaged (60%). Reloading an autosave after the wound has her die at the same time, curiously alongside the notice of her healing fully appearing at the top of the screen. Administering a healer mech serum doesn't help, because... she has asthma. Quite humorous, really.
Couple other things too, minor quibbles:
- Jade is a good blunt weapon material, but the only blunt weapon that can be made out of it is the Club. Clubs no longer have quality, so... not really. Just feels weird to me.
- Unusually, it seems like the usual tooltip is not present while doctoring animals if you right-click on the animal. My medic was on their way to heal a dog resting in its bed, and I could not see the "already tending" or "prioritize tending" message when I tried to order him to do so. Instead, nothing at all. While it's easy to read that the colonist is doing that, it seems conspicuous in its absence compared to the interface for any other task. I have not replicated this yet, but I will see if I can.
Opinion on mortars: I second the notion of using four or more. Will ward off a siege with comedic ease - just a matter of hitting their magazines. Generally also a good way of dealing with fallen ships, though perhaps it might make sense if it had some accuracy bonus against something that big, you're not looking at much investment to bring it below 50% and aggro its guards to you. Keep a magazine of 100 shells, it's more than you'll need. They're also pleasantly valuable, considering their components. Unless steel is quite precious, build a mortar battery.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Looks weird how they can chit chat in middle of a insulting spree.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 10, 2018, 10:45:20 PM
Looks weird how they can chit chat in middle of a insulting spree.
It does look weird, but i find it ever so entertaining lol
More animal weirdness yay!
Had a toxic fallout, started madly building hydroponics since it happened right when the short boreal growing season starts. And it was the shortest toxic fallout in history: 4 days! Go randy!
Because of the instant animal rot, this means that any predators who don't go unconscious before they go hunting now all go manhunting on your butt, since they end up killing everything because they can't eat the corpses.
Additionally, I had a grizzly bear go manhunter and when I shot it, it just ran away ::)
More manhunting weirdness: A remote warg decided to go manhunter and gave the message, then almost immediately switched to hunting a raccoon. This may have always been happening and is only noticed with the new message system.
I wanted to say that I am a big fan of the work changes to parka and duster. I normally play tribal, so I just got to try it. I really appreciate that now it doesn't take two quadrums to craft just those for all my pawns.
Little bit late, this was from version 1.0.1956.
So I got raider drop pod attack on top of my mineral stockpiles. They attacked some of my pets after they popped out for a moment. Then they decided to steal my minerals. However, my tribespeople blocked their way out while shooting at them. They were just standing at there cluelessly, and no fightback. They tried to flee when half of them died/downed, but eventually they all got massacared by rain of fire. Like shooting fishes in a barrel.
I think this behaviour should be changed so those raiders will fightback if they are stucked (no path to flee) when stealing resources.
[attachment deleted due to age]
The door changes have made it pretty easy to cheese an extra shot while the enemy is giving up on trying to get through the once open door that your colonist previously occupied. When the door is slowly closing, the approaching raider or animal starts walking away from the door thinking its closed while your colonist starts lining up the shot knowing its open. You can get a few extra shots (depending on the weapon) off before the door closes. It's very easy to cheese the doors now, and the slower the door the easier it is. Big heavy manual stone doors work best as they take the longest to close. I think it is an issue where the raider thinks the door is fully closed when he should probably be trying to put his foot in it to stop it from closing.
So my question to the Big Man is, is this intentional or accidental behavior?
Quick build to fix some serious bugs.
---
Fix: Pawn dies when scar becomes permanent.
Fix: Carried pawns are sometimes dropped (instead of captured) just before leaving the map to join a caravan.
Guests will now rest in bed until fully healed before leaving the map.
World quest refugees now spawn with warm clothes if needed.
The psychic drone incident drone level now depends on the colony wealth.
Fix: Other caravan members are not properly removed when a caravan is destroyed when all colonists die.
Trying to do an arid shrubland run.
- Extreme wood shortage. Have to build with steel early on.
- It is very hot there. Without wood, passive coolers are out of the question. Electricity is essential.
- For the same reason, can't use fueled generators. Now, without early access to solars and batteries, watermill is the only way to reliably produce energy. Starting without a river is very difficult. Well, you can try to tame boomalopes, but...
- While the description says it is not dry enough to become a true desert, it is. Wild herbivores are sweeping the whole map clean from any plants and leaving a map due to starvation. Any animal farming requires haygrass. Any growing zone must be walled off.
- It is sometimes hot enough for boomalopes to get heatstrokes.
- Raiders are coming without proper apparel for the hot weather.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 01:38:03 AM
Trying to do an arid shrubland run.
- Extreme wood shortage. Have to build with steel early on.
- It is very hot there. Without wood, passive coolers are out of the question. Electricity is essential.
- For the same reason, can't use fueled generators. Now, without early access to solars and batteries, watermill is the only way to reliably produce energy. Starting without a river is very difficult. Well, you can try to tame boomalopes, but...
- While the description says it is not dry enough to become a true desert, it is. Wild herbivores are sweeping the whole map clean from any plants and leaving a map due to starvation. Any animal farming requires haygrass. Any growing zone must be walled off.
- It is sometimes hot enough for boomalopes to get heatstrokes.
- Raiders are coming without proper apparel for the hot weather.
Agreed, I did an arid shrubland run back in A17 or B18 (can't remember which) and there was definitely a huge shortage of wood. Refrigerating food was impossible for a long time, which made the early game a massive slog.
Quote from: DubskiDude on July 11, 2018, 01:44:34 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 01:38:03 AM
Trying to do an arid shrubland run.
- Extreme wood shortage. Have to build with steel early on.
- It is very hot there. Without wood, passive coolers are out of the question. Electricity is essential.
- For the same reason, can't use fueled generators. Now, without early access to solars and batteries, watermill is the only way to reliably produce energy. Starting without a river is very difficult. Well, you can try to tame boomalopes, but...
- While the description says it is not dry enough to become a true desert, it is. Wild herbivores are sweeping the whole map clean from any plants and leaving a map due to starvation. Any animal farming requires haygrass. Any growing zone must be walled off.
- It is sometimes hot enough for boomalopes to get heatstrokes.
- Raiders are coming without proper apparel for the hot weather.
Agreed, I did an arid shrubland run back in A17 or B18 (can't remember which) and there was definitely a shortage of wood. Refrigerating food was impossible for a long time, which made the early game a massive slog.
In A17 there was enough wood there. Not much, but enough to use it.
Wood is actually kind of a rare commodity in 1.0... Despite it having only two advantages - cheap and fast.
When people train animals to haul, they keep doing it once in a while even after the haul stat is maxed at 7/7.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 02:04:37 AM
When people train animals to haul, they keep doing it once in a while even after the haul stat is maxed at 7/7.
I'm not sure what do you mean, but animals haul once every 1.5 hours and no more often than once in an hour. Though with how upkeep for animals is ramped up they could be better.
BTW, about animals in training. They only rescue pawns within 30 tiles away. In all my experience, I never seen them actually rescuing anyone. For now, it is nothing more than extra buffer for training degradation.
I think he meant the trainers. This is probably the animal upkeep triggering before the training is lost.
Edit: rather amusing thrumbo kill. 6 shots with a bolt action rifle with no berserk. Starts bleeding to death :o Leaks like 50 blood puddles too, yuck
Edit: actually this might be very rare, just noticed two shots to the heart
[attachment deleted due to age]
I meant they keep training the animals. Wasting precious meat, since my colony spawned with a warg.
By the way, is it intended to allow colonists to enter a mental break just after leaving another one? In less than a second?
Happened twice now, catharsis not helping since it triggers before their mood can improve.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 02:25:43 AM
I meant they keep training the animals. Wasting precious meat, since my colony spawned with a warg.
Now training degrades over time, so you have to keep training them so they won't forget their skills.
All space refugees are now affiliated with some local faction. Weird.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 02:25:43 AM
By the way, is it intended to allow colonists to enter a mental break just after leaving another one? In less than a second?
Should be impossible. That's weird. Will have to look.
What was the second mental break? Pyro firestarting or gourmand eating or chemical interest drug binge?
Quote from: Tynan on July 11, 2018, 02:39:40 AM
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 02:25:43 AM
By the way, is it intended to allow colonists to enter a mental break just after leaving another one? In less than a second?
Should be impossible. That's weird. Will have to look.
What was the second mental break? Pyro firestarting or gourmand eating or chemical interest drug binge?
I had a pawn that went on a chemical fascination binge, finished, then immediately started another binge. Both were on flake I think.
A note, if it hasn't been mentioned already:
Faction relations are dropping if a faction member dies on the map for any reason - including when the player is not responsible for the death.
Relations for the meanie factions feel too stable. Once you get them to neutral it takes a very long time (5 years?) for them to drop to hostile again, and you get to trade with them to slow that down even further.
Quote from: Tynan on July 11, 2018, 02:39:40 AM
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 02:25:43 AM
By the way, is it intended to allow colonists to enter a mental break just after leaving another one? In less than a second?
Should be impossible. That's weird. Will have to look.
What was the second mental break? Pyro firestarting or gourmand eating or chemical interest drug binge?
I think it was the one where the colonist go around killing colony animals. The first one was catatonic breakdown.
That in many places, animals, objects are still code names or Errorname, is that known?
My English is not that good and I have not found it described anywhere.
It´s translate whit google :(
Starting to do more caravans, still finding them crazy awkward and questionable worth. So I send 4 guys on an item stash quest. My medic goes into a psychotic daze right before hitting the destination. My short 1 day there and back caravan that didn't even need bed rolls is now a half week caravan where 4 guys are out of comission which makes the reward not worth it. Imagine if I did an outpost raid with 12 guys or something. I'd basically have to execute anyone on a mental break or call it off if it's one where we can keep moving.
Also seems to be some sort of bug. I set guys to stop and rest and they aren't sleeping as seen below o.O
[attachment deleted due to age]
It would be nice if the guys who are out on a mission had a small positive moodlet something akin to low expectations, since they shouldn't really expect any comfort other than sleeping bags and survival meals.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 01:38:03 AM
Trying to do an arid shrubland run.
- Extreme wood shortage. Have to build with steel early on.
- It is very hot there. Without wood, passive coolers are out of the question. Electricity is essential.
- For the same reason, can't use fueled generators. Now, without early access to solars and batteries, watermill is the only way to reliably produce energy. Starting without a river is very difficult. Well, you can try to tame boomalopes, but...
- While the description says it is not dry enough to become a true desert, it is. Wild herbivores are sweeping the whole map clean from any plants and leaving a map due to starvation. Any animal farming requires haygrass. Any growing zone must be walled off.
- It is sometimes hot enough for boomalopes to get heatstrokes.
- Raiders are coming without proper apparel for the hot weather.
I am just researching the last item to build the ship in arid shrubland unstable 1.0, just need plasteel. It is hot but wind turbines are available until battery and solar research are done, which i prioritixzed, and it worked quite effectively for me. Also the cacti and drago tree do give wood and once you research trees cacti harvest fairly quickly and tynan upped the resource to 20 timbers on harvest.
The only issue i have is not being able to restrict refueling the passive coolers when you do not need the use of them. It is such a waste to refuel the wonderful working primitive coolers at 70F or 21C when it does cool off and you need to save your supply of wood.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1438004942
They do have extremely low expectations I think, so that helps a little. And this is the first psychotic break I had, so I'm overreacting heh. I wouldn't say caravans in general aren't worth it, although this one basically failed xD It does look like I'll have to check every colonist for mood weaknesses before embarking on large caravans, though. Dude had a divorce :/
Quote from: Greep on July 11, 2018, 05:02:37 AM
They do have extremely low expectations I think, so that helps a little. And this is the first psychotic break I had, so I'm overreacting heh. I wouldn't say caravans in general aren't worth it, although this one basically failed xD It does look like I'll have to check every colonist for mood weaknesses before embarking on large caravans, though. Dude had a divorce :/
Strange, i didn't really see them having low expectations on a caravan, if their colony expectation are no longer low (moderate and higher).
If they don't they really should :o. I'll take a look again next caravan
Quote from: Jstank on July 11, 2018, 01:08:37 AM
The door changes have made it pretty easy to cheese an extra shot while the enemy is giving up on trying to get through the once open door that your colonist previously occupied.
It's particularly noticeable with manhunterpacks: if you're in a doorframe and retreat, animals will attack the open door instead of keeping the target on the retreating pawn while the door is still open.
Pyros are tolerable now? Won't believe it until i see for myself...
Eh, he deleted the post, so I deleted mine xD But yeah, they are very tolerable. I don't think I've actually seen a pyro break now.
That said, I seem to have different mood management from everyone else ::) Half my colony is on minor break warning at any one time, so I get lots of breaks in general.
You should be able to forbid passive coolers, torches, etc, from getting refueled
Quote from: Greep on July 11, 2018, 05:24:41 AM
Eh, he deleted the post, so I deleted mine xD But yeah, they are very tolerable. I don't think I've actually seen a pyro break now.
That said, I seem to have different mood management from everyone else ::) Half my colony is on minor break warning at any one time, so I get lots of breaks in general.
I wouldn't say you have different mood management system... I also mostly have at least a minor break risk 24\7 on all my people until i have set up properly. And by properly i mean at least decent rooms for everyone and at least somewhat impressive dining\rec room. And even then Randy keeps tossing crap my way like drones, gut worms and other cute little gimmicks, that still keep my people on the verge of breaking.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 11, 2018, 04:55:09 AM
It would be nice if the guys who are out on a mission had a small positive moodlet something akin to low expectations, since they shouldn't really expect any comfort other than sleeping bags and survival meals.
Yeah this would be good. They're out on a quest complaining they don't have fancy bedrooms. Like, come on guys, what do you want me to do about that?
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 10, 2018, 11:37:51 AM
Inversely, my latest game has recently seen four world quests in less than a fortnight. Maybe even in a shorter time period. It's a little overwhelming. How would you like the save files?
Hmm, I've already received a savefile from Lanilor and it also appears that the quests rate has come back to normal. "Future incidents" debug output also seems fine. I think it's ok for now, we'll see if it happens again.
@tynan Same colony new graph and I am building the ship, almost have all the materials may be off tomorrow, maybe the next day but I am excited to see the new ship build and continue to experience what it takes to build it in 1.0. Dev mode 4x speed is awesome
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/948455146965244282/77387168AC12CFB6458BB0B98A273D7381F9F145/)
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.
Still looking forward to seeing those Ramp-up graphs!
New build, still lots to do.
---
Remove some redundant verb labels we added by accident.
Adjust raid points curve.
More research adjustments.
Made techprofs more common as quest rewards.
Move sterile materials and television earlier in the prerequisites.
Research rebalance: Increase simple research bench to 75% speed factor. Slower research skill gain. Double research costs of everything including and beyond multi-analyzer. Increase research costs of electricity, microelectronics, geothermal, long range mineral scanner.
Faction goodwill shifts faster.
Wounding rebalance: -Adjust the artificial chance of avoiding limb removal due to damage overkill. Make it damage def-dependent, so cuts and bites are great at limb removal while bullets are less so. -Reduce blunt stun duration 3.5 -> 2. -Rebalance and review other wounding code.
Quest balance adjustments.
Language data update.
Ranged attacks default to 0.5 stopping power instead of 0.
Increase shotgun penetration to 0.14. Fix typo.Adjust door health and speed. Debuff vanometric power cell slightly.
Upgrade the trade window with an additional list identical to the Animal tab that has the following columns:
* Bond
* Slaughter
* Medical care
By including a 4th category: "Marked for sale", so that the ones ticked in green appear in trade windows...
I usually play in harsh biomes so my livestock is usually small...but playing in Tropical Forest... my animals are mass breeding and this is very chaotic...
Hey I noticed that since the research tree changes (gun turret no longer after Microelectronics) in 1.0U you no longer get the comms console on a rich explorer scenario at the start. Was this intentional?
When starting a sea ice scenario in B18 this was necessary as you needed a bulk goods trader within the first season (maybe 2 if lucky with wild animals) to buy steel (for hydroponics) before food ran out. This way it seems to me that sea ice is now impossible with this scenario(unmodified).
In B18 you needed to research: hydroponics -> electric smelting
In 1.0U you need: microelectronics -> batteries -> hydroponics -> electric smelting
I have never tried with a normal crashlanded scenario as I'm not a fan of killing 2 pawns to survive.
Just finished my NB run that I've been playing at for a couple of weeks now. First of all, despite the constant updates my game never got broken or seriously messed up. Very fun experience to test like this, much appreciated.
Now a few comments specifically on building the ship and starting up the reactor:
- Ship research has been rebalanced since I went through it, can't comment on how it is now. Was possible but a bit of a chore when I did it. Had 2 hi-tech research stations going on.
- Building the ship was mostly ok. Gold and Uranium are really tight resources though. I mostly only traded and mined for it myself. Got very lucky with a uranium meteor next to my base so only gold was an issue - the only gold deposit the scanner found was very far away, and I only had 4 fields on surface level that I had found. Had to buy gold a few times for advanced component construction.
- The advanced component cost on the caskets feels punishing... It was 4 per now, I seem to remember 5 at some point earlier? I think 3 would be a better value - I basically left behind some people because I didn't feel like grinding adv. components any more.
- I could add ship components (like more caskets) during the reactor startup phase, but then once it was started up it felt anticlimactic - I couldn't add anything to the ship any more - no building was possible for some reason and I didn't know how to switch the reactor off to add things, doesn't seem like there's a function. If this is intended a good warning about not being able to add to the ship after startup would help, and maybe stop people from adding during startup already - it's weird that this was stopped by the final activation.
- Raids during the startup felt cool, but were all somewhat underpowered. At the level I was at (Cassandra Rough) I never had serious issues, all were underarmed and small compared to the raids I had gotten before. I had about 10 shooters (15 cols total) with miniguns, sniper rifles and charge weapons, mostly full flak gear. Most raids were about 10 raiders, with clubs, swords and pistols, with a single bolt-action thrown in. I wasn't really challenged. Had a single scyther drop on me as one raid. The frequency feels great but they just weren't very challenging (I may regret saying this...). By the end I moved all my shooters out and didn't bother getting cover even - that shouldn't be like that. My raids before had sniper rifles in them, never saw a single one in the reactor phase. I am used to better weapons on raiders from the past but with the changes to durability I guess you don't want people to get too much nice loot...
- Raid diversity was pretty cool. Forced me to deal with them flexibly.
- Raids stopping when the reactor is charged up was anticlimactic. It would seem cooler to keep them coming until launch happened.
All in all very cool experience. The weak final raids were a bit of a let-down, maybe add in a more serious one every 5 days or so.
Quote from: Tynan on July 11, 2018, 08:06:12 AM
Research rebalance: Increase simple research bench to 75% speed factor. Slower research skill gain. Double research costs of everything including and beyond multi-analyzer. Increase research costs of electricity, microelectronics, geothermal, long range mineral scanner.
Faction goodwill shifts faster.
This feels like it will help a lot! The first game I had took me ages to get the basics then I totally rattled through all the late game research and deconstructed all my research benches because there was nothing left.
Quote from: dnmr on July 10, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
my dogs are still exploding on IED traps https://i.imgur.com/oW8J33r.jpg
This can't be intended behaviour, right?
... for some reason, this made me laugh out loud at work... just, the thought of it...
Tynan can you pls show us an example of the "ramp-up" graph? I and many other players have problems finding it.
When I open the history tab with dev mode enabled, it looks the same.
Quote from: Tynan on July 11, 2018, 08:06:12 AM
Research rebalance: Increase simple research bench to 75% speed factor. Slower research skill gain. Double research costs of everything including and beyond multi-analyzer. Increase research costs of electricity, microelectronics, geothermal, long range mineral scanner.
Faction goodwill shifts faster.
Hm, going to be interesting testing this out, since it's pretty much exactly what I suggested. If it's not good I'll feel very stupid.
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 09:49:11 AM
Sniper turret now consumes Uranium instead of steel.
Hmmm...
I dunno but i think making it consume Uranium is rarer and expensive for the sniper turret.
Making the sniper turret when it requires uranium for barrel changes means it's not even worth it for players as they will stick with the autocannon turrets or mini-turrets.
Maybe changing it to comsume plasteel or components would make it alright.
First impression of the research changes: Playing my jungle colony, small hills, huge river, randy extreme. Having to research electricity after already having it as new arrivals is funny. Speed felt alright, but I have to admit I have (and had) a very skilled researcher. Either way, it felt pretty decent at 60% already, so I can only assume with a worse researcher at 75% it's still good.
Points for high-end research looks more in line with what I would expect now, was really low beforehand.
Tree sowing work is awful. I patched it to be 4000 instead and that feels okay. Probably 6000 would be bearable too. But 12000 just makes me never want to deal with trees ever, not even with a 20 plants skill, industrious, neurotic, bionics-enhanced pawn.
Quote from: Zombull on July 10, 2018, 08:15:14 PM
Researching seems really fast at higher levels. Cassandra blessed me with a level 11 burning passion researcher with a level 16 researcher who isn't good for much else. She turns the crank on the research table at remarkable speed. In no time I'm researching tech I have no intention of using for several quadrums at least.
Yeah, running into the same problem. :\ This effect is zapping a little bit of fun from the "curve" feeling.
Some stories from my last 2 colonies. Both Cassandra Extreme, Crash Landed, No Mods.
The first one was started right before the update that re-added slowdown to armor. For this colony I tried out a mostly melee force with a couple of ranged. I rushed for smithing and platemail and my defense was basically a 1 tile wide hallway with doors on either side. The enemy would go through and hit traps, then at the end be met with my melee where they'd be killed 3 on 1. The doors also let me ambush any pawns that stayed in the hall. The ranged picked them off as they approached, and then stood 1 tile behind the melee at the end of the hall so they could further firepower down on the enemy. It worked really well, and it let me forgo ever building turrets or an actual killbox, which was a new experience on extreme difficulty.
What ultimately killed the colony however, was an all sapper raid. Something like 12 enemies strong with nothing just grenades and molotovs. These guys had no problem grenading their own men, and as a result I did win, but I took so many losses it was over.
Once the armor slowdown patch hit, I also decided next playthrough to just go straight for flak. I'm not even sure plate is an increase in defense when it comes to sharp, it seems like it's actually weaker against bullets but better against blunt and fire.
Anyway, the play-through wasn't really memorable otherwise except for one specific event. I sent 3 pawns off to a item stash. They were ambushed by 3 pirates. No problem, I had 2 melee with longswords and a ranged with an assault rifle all in plate versus 3 naked pirates with pistols and knives. Needless to say, I won, but Karo took a tiny little stab. Of course I brought medicine and had someone with medical so no big deal.
Then I get the infection notice. Well, it's Extreme, so I kind of expected it. Karo is 26 years old, no other health issues, and I have medicine and a doctor. No problem, I keep going. Then she get's the plague. And not only does she get the plague, so does the doctor on the caravan. Now I'm in a lot of trouble but I'm only a few hours out from the stash so I push forward. It's unguarded, so I grab my healing serums and head back to camp.
Then Karo get's food poisoning. This was because I was using Jelly to feed the caravan and I rolled the 2% food poison chance. And now that food poison multiplies blood filtration by 0.6, Karo was pretty screwed. This was incredibly frustrating for me. I couldn't control that there was an ambush, and even though I defeated it nearly flawlessly, I was punished for a single tiny stab wound. Then I had the plague on a pawn already sick and on the doctor so his treatment quality would suffer. There was nothing I could do here since illness is purely a random event with no warning. The food poisoning I learned my lesson with, but at the time I hadn't realized it had been changed to have a blood filtration penalty. The problem is I could have just rolled food poisoning even on pemmican or a survival meal. This is the type of stuff that really makes me hesitant to ever send caravans out.
So anyway, next game, I'm melee heavy again. This time only party by choice. I get a quest for a masterwork assault rifle item cache and it's too good to pass up so I send an expendable pawn I just recruited after it. It's guarded by 3 geckos, which he kills, but he dies to an infection from the fight. Once he's immobile, before he dies, I have him settle a new colony, so I can send a pawn to collect the rifle. Being able to create a temporary camp instead of a full on colony would have been useful here.
Later, I go on another quest for a techproof core, 2 healing serums, and a power armor helmet. It's just a trade for 4 assault shotguns. 2.5 days there, 2.5 days back. What could possibly go wrong?
What went wrong as my only shooter, the wielder of the masterwork assault rifle, get's the plague. Yup, it happened to me in two playthroughs in a row. He dies as a result, and thus begins the downward spiral of my colony. We manage to survive 2 sieges despite not having anyone with shooting above 5, but we finally lose to a poison ship that decided 9 mechs including an inferno cannon Centipede was a fair fight. I actually did win, miraculously, thanks to one pawn who managed to down 4 lancers single handedly with her longsword, but I lost my best melee in the process and I lost a pawn to a bug where a burn became permanent and instantly killed them. I'm so banged up a know the next raid will end me. Also, I lost half my research when today's patch changed the numbers, so I'm just going to restart.
td;dr observations from those playthroughs:
I think I'm just going to ignore platemail. I didn't really miss it last playthrough, and 1400 for a dead end research into a tech you can substitute with another tech that costs half as much is a hard sell. Maybe now that it's a lot harder to get to flak, I might change my mind and decide it's worth it. Or, the increased research costs might make me think it's even more important to skip platemail. I don't know, I guess I'll see next play-through.
Deadly diseases hitting pawns who are in caravans is really frustrating. There's basically nothing you can do about it and in most cases it's going to cost you the pawn.
Food poisoning being 60% blood filtration mean it's a death sentence if a pawn with a deadly disease happens to get food poisoning. While you can reduce food poison chance, you can never really eliminate it, which is a frustrating way to lose a pawn. I'd honestly rather have the old food poisoning that totally disabled the pawn back.
I don't allow pawns to ever eat Jelly now, because I have no way of knowing they don't have a hidden plague or malaria that will kill them if they get food poisoning. Maybe I'm a bit too paranoid.
All grenade raiders are nasty. Like, really nasty. The AI will grenade it's own troops, but it doesn't matter because they don't need to survive or even win the fight. They just need to take a few good pawns away from you to have a victory. That said, it counters the super heavy melee defense strategies really well, so maybe they need to be that deadly.
The techproof core I got from that trade request gave me IEDs, which wasn't a technology I ever used. The fact that it's a completely random tech means it's far more likely to be something you don't particularly need rather than something you do. That doesn't make me all that excited when I see one as a quest reward.
History Graph on the latest colony:
(https://i.imgur.com/N4fpUTp.jpg)
So, 2 things:
-I built a trade beacon blue-print to get the radius, then built a wall to be my warehouse that perfectly encapsulates the radius, thus the beacon was built after. For some reason it's not letting me place a roof in a 5-tile area shaped like a plus over the beacon (see pic), despite the description saying "can be placed indoors". Luckily my goods that aren't under that unroofed plus are still considered "indoors (unroofed 5)" so they aren't actually breaking down. Kind of sucks though because of the temperature reg, now that room is perpetually ambient. Also, the option to place a zone around the beacon still included that unroofed zone, I shrunk that section away just to be safe (also a great feature putting it on the zone like that!)
-I guess because I updated in unstable, I (as a colony start) no longer have electronics and microelectrions researched, but both are 2/3rds the way done, while my machining research was redacted with 700/1000 points. Guess updating the costs mid-colony kind of "broke" some stuff ;D
"sorry boss, we don't know how to build AC, but here's a solar panel!"
Glad to see the constant work though, I'm truly hono(u)red to see my shotgun feedback incorporated!
[attachment deleted due to age]
QuoteAll grenade raiders are nasty. Like, really nasty. The AI will grenade it's own troops, but it doesn't matter because they don't need to survive or even win the fight. They just need to take a few good pawns away from you to have a victory. That said, it counters the super heavy melee defense strategies really well, so maybe they need to be that deadly.
This definitely feels ridiculous. Watching people send a kamikazee swarm towards you that's half-dead by the time they reach you because they're just grenading their way through everything without caring which of their own people they murder on the way feels bad for all kinds of reasons.
Quote from: MoronicCinamun on July 11, 2018, 10:56:38 AM
So, 2 things:
-I built a trade beacon blue-print to get the radius, then built a wall to be my warehouse that perfectly encapsulates the radius, thus the beacon was built after. For some reason it's not letting me place a roof in a 5-tile area shaped like a plus over the beacon (see pic), despite the description saying "can be placed indoors". Luckily my goods that aren't under that unroofed plus are still considered "indoors (unroofed 5)" so they aren't actually breaking down. Kind of sucks though because of the temperature reg, now that room is perpetually ambient. Also, the option to place a zone around the beacon still included that unroofed zone, I shrunk that section away just to be safe (also a great feature putting it on the zone like that!)
-I guess because I updated in unstable, I (as a colony start) no longer have electronics and microelectrions researched, but both are 2/3rds the way done, while my machining research was redacted with 700/1000 points. Guess updating the costs mid-colony kind of "broke" some stuff ;D
"sorry boss, we don't know how to build AC, but here's a solar panel!"
Glad to see the constant work though, I'm truly hono(u)red to see my shotgun feedback incorporated!
This comes up a lot. If you surround an orbital beacon zone with walls they can't support the area in the middle. You need a pillar (aka a single wall) to hold up the roof in the middle.
QuoteAll grenade raiders are nasty. Like, really nasty. The AI will grenade it's own troops, but it doesn't matter because they don't need to survive or even win the fight. They just need to take a few good pawns away from you to have a victory. That said, it counters the super heavy melee defense strategies really well, so maybe they need to be that deadly.
But purely grenade raid is so funny. All you can do to win is just run with 1 guy non stop near enemies, so they are just blow themselves.
Quote from: Kirby23590 on July 11, 2018, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 09:49:11 AM
Sniper turret now consumes Uranium instead of steel.
Hmmm...
I dunno but i think making it consume Uranium is rarer and expensive for the sniper turret.
Making the sniper turret when it requires uranium for barrel changes means it's not even worth it for players as they will stick with the autocannon turrets or mini-turrets.
Maybe changing it to comsume plasteel or components would make it alright.
Simply not worth it to me. Instantly deconstructed sniper after the update. Plasteel is hard to come by in my current game, mountainous map. I've been having to buy it lately. Tho not a bad idea, I still wouldn't use it if it consumed plasteel.
QuoteResearch rebalance: Increase simple research bench to 75% speed factor. Slower research skill gain. Double research costs of everything including and beyond multi-analyzer. Increase research costs of electricity, microelectronics, geothermal, long range mineral scanner.
Don't understand why hospital bed is locked behind microelectronics with 1200 points to research. Vitals monitor can stay where its at.
1000 for trees while planting them takes insane amount of time?
Slower research skill gain is concerning.
I think the layout is more interesting for the most part, but the points for late research...
I really dislike it if the rebalance is to just to prolong research. That's what happened here right?
It felt somewhat okay in previous games but tacking more onto it comes off stupid slow and a chore if that's the case.
Not sure of the effects from the boost in simple research bench tho.
Still researching the ship in my game and I'm several years in! I'm tired of waiting. Oh well. Won't build it this time.
Starting a new game cause there's been so many changes since I started it.
Quote from: Jstank on July 11, 2018, 01:08:37 AM
The door changes have made it pretty easy to cheese an extra shot while the enemy is giving up on trying to get through the once open door that your colonist previously occupied. When the door is slowly closing, the approaching raider or animal starts walking away from the door thinking its closed while your colonist starts lining up the shot knowing its open. You can get a few extra shots (depending on the weapon) off before the door closes. It's very easy to cheese the doors now, and the slower the door the easier it is. Big heavy manual stone doors work best as they take the longest to close. I think it is an issue where the raider thinks the door is fully closed when he should probably be trying to put his foot in it to stop it from closing.
So my question to the Big Man is, is this intentional or accidental behavior?
Hmm. It's a good point. There may be a balance in the slower opening. In the last couple of days I've noticed how laboriously long it takes a colonist to get to the door and get through it (to safety.) Many times, with anything that has a moderate wind-up I find the shot doesn't go off or is always intercepted by the door? Do you notice this or am I crazy? In practice, the change has made it quite a bit harder for me to get colonists to safety and cheese, in some ways. Hmm ... careful balance, this.
Currently, it's feeling fair in my games. Fielding a lot more wounds on pawns trying to take cover from faster enemies / animals. Most recent example is setting off a small cluster of Gazelle's into Manhunter, while hunting. They were close to the base. There was nearly no way to cheese this without taking many wounds. Finally, did though -- I wouldn't consider it a "cheese" victory.
I agree, balance doors with caution. True, sqeezing in that extra shot isn't something I do tho it happens at times. It goes both ways, they land a shot on me while waiting for the door to close.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 11, 2018, 11:09:38 AM
Quote from: MoronicCinamun on July 11, 2018, 10:56:38 AM
So, 2 things:
-I built a trade beacon blue-print to get the radius, then built a wall to be my warehouse that perfectly encapsulates the radius, thus the beacon was built after. For some reason it's not letting me place a roof in a 5-tile area shaped like a plus over the beacon (see pic), despite the description saying "can be placed indoors". Luckily my goods that aren't under that unroofed plus are still considered "indoors (unroofed 5)" so they aren't actually breaking down. Kind of sucks though because of the temperature reg, now that room is perpetually ambient. Also, the option to place a zone around the beacon still included that unroofed zone, I shrunk that section away just to be safe (also a great feature putting it on the zone like that!)
-I guess because I updated in unstable, I (as a colony start) no longer have electronics and microelectrions researched, but both are 2/3rds the way done, while my machining research was redacted with 700/1000 points. Guess updating the costs mid-colony kind of "broke" some stuff ;D
"sorry boss, we don't know how to build AC, but here's a solar panel!"
Glad to see the constant work though, I'm truly hono(u)red to see my shotgun feedback incorporated!
This comes up a lot. If you surround an orbital beacon zone with walls they can't support the area in the middle. You need a pillar (aka a single wall) to hold up the roof in the middle.
Yeaaaaaaaaa, I just realized that when I tried removing the beacon to see if that changes it, I feel like a moron XD
It's never been an issue because I've never actually had this "effective" a use of space.
Okay, here's a genuine concern:
Once you've smoothed a natural stone wall (a great feature btw), it's treated as owned and thus if you have to mine it, your colonists will try to repair to it, undoing the mining, requiring a lot of right clicking to get it done. I suppose having it set to mine should disable repairs on it.
is it a feature that it's impossible to train/tame animals wolfs with meals/processed foods (that they eat) ?
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 09:49:11 AM
Sniper turret now consumes uranium instead of steel.
This brings up a concern I've been having -- Underutilized elements. Uranium may be rare and difficult to find but, I still want to feel like it's important to _something_. I think it's important that we feel each element has more value than "Make Art, Sell." This change is fantastic, in that it further purposes a game element / resource.
With that said, will we be seeing any more additional purposing and integrating of lesser-used elements? Could we see small amounts of gold integrated into high-tech items? Could Uranium be further integrated into high-tech items (maybe the pulsers and such, with an "internal power source"?)
One more concern, on this topic, is the mention of "
Tools." This comes up on the Machining Bench and possibly other text locations. We have weapons and armor but, nothing I would consider a "Tool." Will we be seeing any of these in 1.0? Is there even a concept for these Tools? Could we see equipable Spanners (bonus to construction and crafting), Chainsaws & Sickle (trees / plants bonuses), a Rucksack / Handtruck / wheelbarrow for additional hauling, Snowshoes / Skis for mitigated snow / ice movement penalties, Miner's Helmet (providing portable light for the working pawn), Maybe glasses as a low-level tech option to reduce vision injury penalties, and so on.
Quote from: Tynan on July 10, 2018, 09:49:11 AM
Buff lavish meal mood impact.
This is quite nice. The mood buff was already a rock-solid boost but, I had begun finding the amount of work involved in keeping those lavish meals available to the colony was overwhelming a burning passion 13+ dedicated cook -- with no injuries (With optimal Zone setup) D: Makes all of the investment really pay off!
Using uranium as a turret ammo was a good change? O_o Now thats one crazy statement if i ever seen one. That turret was already of debatable use, with it missing 3\4 of the time, while costing a crapton to rearm and now it chomps your uranium supply, instead of steel. Kind of funny really.
A proper use of such rare and exotic resource would be adding several high-end glitterworld things to craft and build to make life a bit more convenient and tolerable, not sticking it into a gun barrel.
Bug (still): When a pawn is set to mining and constructing, it will get stuck in a loop if attempting to mine a smoothed wall block. It will stop mining and repair. Then mine again. Then repair its damage. Then start mining again...
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 11, 2018, 10:51:45 AM
All grenade raiders are nasty. Like, really nasty. The AI will grenade it's own troops, but it doesn't matter because they don't need to survive or even win the fight. They just need to take a few good pawns away from you to have a victory. That said, it counters the super heavy melee defense strategies really well, so maybe they need to be that deadly.
What you wrote validates my own experience with Sapper raids. If you go back a few pages, you'll see an update that I wrote where a Sapper raid colony wiped me on 11 of 12 attempts.
Sapper Raids can be like mice stumbling through glue traps - the moment that any of your colonists are within melee range with an enemy, they lose the ability to disengage quickly, and can't use their far more powerful ranged weapon to kill the enemy and get free...hence the "glue trap". All of your colonists that are engaging with even a single Pirate are now "stuck" to that Pirate, and the Grenade sapper now just frags the whole bunch. You know a grenade is going to be coming, you can see the grenade's path, you can assign your pawns to move away from it, but it's too late, and there's not a thing you can do to counter it.
The problem becomes compounded when an incendiary is launched at the unavoidable blob, and your guys are now on fire. The obvious thing is to say "Well, don't blob up."...but therein lay the problem: the "blob" is often extremely difficult to avoid, even when you're taking specific actions
not to blob up.
In my case, every attempt to engage the grenadiers and incendiary launcher at range were being countered by two snipers (one sniper rifle, one bolt-action), who were regularly one-shot insta-downing my guys in cover. You have no choice but to attempt to close distance to counter...and now, you're likely back to being "blobbed" to a single pirate, where your guys become target practice.
Close combat attempts were even worse off (letting sappers blow through walls in rooms, then engaging in multiple directions from doorways with shotguns), because of the limited mobility and limited space to avoid getting "stuck".
Quote from: Tynan on July 11, 2018, 02:39:40 AM
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 02:25:43 AM
By the way, is it intended to allow colonists to enter a mental break just after leaving another one? In less than a second?
Should be impossible. That's weird. Will have to look.
What was the second mental break? Pyro firestarting or gourmand eating or chemical interest drug binge?
I also had this happen about a week ago, not sure which build it was and I don't remember which breaks exactly, but I had a colonist break and then when she finally collapsed from exhaustion the second she woke up she broke again due to starvation.
I'm also getting some breaks currently (sad wander and hide in room so far) when the mental state is well above the half way point for those pawns. Thought it was odd but I might just not be understanding the breaks well enough.
In regards to what someone else said about arid shrubland and wood, I'm also having major issues on this new tribal shrubland run I started yesterday. Passive coolers are a must, animals are decimating the few plants and trees around. I started growing some cactii in a wall off area, but they take FOREVER to plan. My 11 growing pawn can MAYBE plant 2 in a day cycle at most. It's way to slow IMO. I'm all for it being slower than other crops, but 2 a day doesn't even keep up with just a campfire for cooking and a few passive coolers.
'open door' strategy works pretty decently still, i would say AI should kind of rethink their path during raid when there is only 1 path leading to 'center' of base. Also, raiders should adjust their move speed so they are less spread while taking same path
Situation : i get raid, i leave door to farming area open (so raiders prioritize this way) and place pawns so they cannot trigger ranged weapons of raiders.
when enemy enters door he gets blocked by melle pawn, since he's in 'range' for shooters i can take him down quickly, since he's in door he blocks path for other raiders thus i don't get swarmed by other enemies
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 11, 2018, 08:06:12 AM
Made techprofs more common as quest rewards.
So maybe it's just me but.. I
really dislike Techprofs. Every one I've ever personally used has given me something trivial or irrelevant like Beer Brewing or Coloured lights. Or smokepop belts :/
Because they give you a tech completely at random the only way to avoid wasting them is to research tech you don't really want or need.
You can obviously sit on them until you've whittled down the research list to mostly things that are post-mutli-analyzer but.. that's not very satisfying or practical.
I'd take a research neurotrainer over a Techprof any day.
---
On the subject of world quests rewards - Just thought I'd throw in that the variance is pretty massive in terms of how difficult the reward would be to acquire under normal circumstances.
~15 days into my current game I had an outpost quest for which the reward was a
legendary bolt action rifle. Defended by 3 chumps and a turret - what a steal. It's extremely hard to obtain legendary items so naturally I went after it and was absolutely ecstatic.(even though I'm running another melee colony)
~20 days later I received an outpost quest for 2900 silver. 4 people, 2 turrets, quite doable - The reward however didn't entice me at all.
97% of the time if a quest offers an item that I can not obtain through any other means - Vanometric power cells, orbital bombardments, psychic emenators ect I'll immediately start going through the mental gymnastics required to complete it. You can really only get a finite number of these items and only from quests. Legendary items - combat items in particular fall into a similar category.
If a quest offers me a Good Charge Lance, a Prosthetic Heart, and an Excellent Alpaca wool T-shirt I'm going to go "Well that's a disappointing waste of a quest" and promptly ignore it unless it's extremely efficient for me to pursue. The total value might technically be higher than the Legendary rifle but the availability difference is massive.
Mostly it's not an issue as these quests
eventually disappear - Though there are times when you're at the maximum number of a particular quest type which prevents new quests appearing, effectively artificially limiting your access to the.. more interesting toys? I guess is a good way to categorize them :P
Bandit camps in particular suffer from this as they don't ever expire.
Don't get me wrong - In
most cases quests offer something that would be otherwise extremely hard to obtain and fun to acquire. The exceptions to those cases can feel pretty mediocre by comparison however.
Quote
Wounding rebalance: -Adjust the artificial chance of avoiding limb removal due to damage overkill. Make it damage def-dependent, so cuts and bites are great at limb removal while bullets are less so. -Reduce blunt stun duration 3.5 -> 2. -Rebalance and review other wounding code.
So many melee changes, struggling to keep up >.<
Bites no longer having a 1.25x modifier is pretty nice, Thrumbos can't do 41 damage torso-destroying bites anymore which is a pretty big deal now that their higher damage bite attack occurs more often.
By and large the stun change has been noticeable but overall I'd describe it as more fair - One stun doesn't instantly decide a melee combat quite as often anymore but it's still a very effective way of keeping enemies from retaliating, particularly when applied from multiple sources.
Power Claws are much more satisfying and useful which has been brilliant. They feel like a viable alternative to bionic arms, although with a high tier melee weapon they are still a bit worse overall than a 2nd bionic arm.
Unfortunately a second power claw is
really inefficient. Mechanically it's fine, it's just not particularly intuitive and could lead to some unfortunate mistakes.
Spears.. Spears.. Spears.. I'm sure you know from XeoNovaDan's testing post that spears really do kick the crap out of centipedes - Suffice to say this is really weird and throws a wrench into the otherwise fairly interesting melee balance :P Tossing in some centipede internal parts that affected say.. movement or manipulation would mitigate the brain-sniping a bit. Surely centipedes aren't hollow after all :P
Frankly having used spears for ~110 days in my current game I've noticed that they do spontaneously kill humans more often than I'd expect from steel weaponry as well.
Missing stomachs, livers, -that sort of thing- instantly gibbing an enemy and surprisingly consistently.. To be honest I've always thought it's a little weird that you die instantly when your stomach is destroyed given that in real life you can live without a stomach.
It's very much part of a different discussion entirely but possibly some thought should be given to adding I don't know.. intestines? so the lack of a stomach doesn't kill someone instantly :P Or indeed some sort of "This person is missing a vital organ, fix it in X time or they will die" system which would of course be much more complicated to implement.
--
Has anyone found a solution to the ramp up graph not showing for pre-existing saves? Feels bad not being able to show it without ditching my current game.
Edit: Forgot something about melee control - When multiple colonists are drafted and selected with the same type of melee weapon the only available hotkey for attack is B, when multiple melee weapon types are selected that is replaced by the H melee attack hotkey which is also used to give an override melee order to ranged weapon users.
It'd be really nice if that could be standardized.. Having to switch between which hotkey you use based on which weapons you happen to have selected is pretty tedious.
Hah, deconstructed my research bench and now after the update I don't even have electricity ::) Only time I'm just devmoding back stuff for the playtest.
That said, I'm not really sure I like the research changes. These have gone up and down like wildly in 1.0. Deep drilling/scanning specifically being much harder than b18 to get feels like it hurts economy poor maps really hard. I was actually just starting to run out of steel on my boreal mountains map when I finally got drilling going. Geothermal costing more I can kind understand, as I usually went straight for it before batteries even.
I also don't really like the research change much and think making it x2 longer will achieve nothing, but make it just slow, while lategame researchers will still eventually be promoted to janitors which i find incredibly dissapointing. There really should be a way to use intellectual skill for the good of the colony aside from researching. I just can't believe a good scientist can stop being useful after a while at all. I'd like a more substantial research system rework, but oh, well. At least its straightforward enough - i'll just apply x2 research speed as a scenario condition and be done with it, so nothing critical.
Quote from: Boboid on July 11, 2018, 02:46:14 PM
To be honest I've always thought it's a little weird that you die instantly when your stomach is destroyed given that in real life you can live without a stomach.
There is a huge difference between surgical removal and a traumatic injury. Stomach injuries shouldn't kill instantly, but they are very dangerous - and often fatal when untreated - because of the stomach acid. The stomach is also next to the aorta.
Rat and squirrel corpses weight around 10 kg !!
And Red fox is at 37 kg. I cant be the only one that thinks its too much right?
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 03:29:52 PM
Rat and squirrel corpses weight around 10 kg !!
And Red fox is at 37 kg. I cant be the only one that thinks its too much right?
it was my understanding that the animals were close to their earthly counterparts, not identical. still would be nice to know if that is correct.
Rats killing wolves suddenly makes more sense ::)
Never really thought about it that way... Rats. 10 kg. Holy shit. Thats some potent radiation on the rims, eh?
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 11, 2018, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 11, 2018, 02:39:40 AM
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 02:25:43 AM
By the way, is it intended to allow colonists to enter a mental break just after leaving another one? In less than a second?
Should be impossible. That's weird. Will have to look.
What was the second mental break? Pyro firestarting or gourmand eating or chemical interest drug binge?
I also had this happen about a week ago, not sure which build it was and I don't remember which breaks exactly, but I had a colonist break and then when she finally collapsed from exhaustion the second she woke up she broke again due to starvation.
I'm also getting some breaks currently (sad wander and hide in room so far) when the mental state is well above the half way point for those pawns. Thought it was odd but I might just not be understanding the breaks well enough.
In regards to what someone else said about arid shrubland and wood, I'm also having major issues on this new tribal shrubland run I started yesterday. Passive coolers are a must, animals are decimating the few plants and trees around. I started growing some cactii in a wall off area, but they take FOREVER to plan. My 11 growing pawn can MAYBE plant 2 in a day cycle at most. It's way to slow IMO. I'm all for it being slower than other crops, but 2 a day doesn't even keep up with just a campfire for cooking and a few passive coolers.
I forgot to add that the second break was a berzerk. She murdered a few colonists before I was able to get her under control.
The latest update removed my electricity research. Now i have batteries but cant build a power conduit.
Yeah I think this is at least one case where devmode is justified in the playtest. Just open your research tab with devmode/godmode and click insta-research
Edit: Blugh, caravan rewards being completely worthless again xD Great while it lasted.
Is there a bug with pawns not respecting the priorities for the patient and bed rest jobs?
Throughput several playthroughs, I keep losing pawns to this because they will start walking around even when infected while their priorities are to stay in bed. Just saw it again. A pawn with infection left the hospital bed as soon as her wounds were healed. I checked her job priorities and #1 was fire fighting (there was fire earlier, but it was long gone by the time her wounds healed), and the first #2 job was patient followed by bed rest.
Alright I finally have to complain about the pawns' way they handle recreation.
While at very high moods with almost no red #s impacting them, i send them across the map to mine or hunt only to see them stop halfway there to go play F'IN HORSE SHOES?!?!
No. No. No. Imo entertainment isn't a straight up need like sleep, food, or even the beauty ticker. It's something that should be sought out when NOT ordered to get us that darned COMPONENT dug out NOW.
Argh!!!
Quote from: dearmad on July 11, 2018, 05:26:17 PM
Alright I finally have to complain about the pawns' way they handle recreation.
While at very high moods with almost no red #s impacting them, i send them across the map to mine or hunt only to see them stop halfway there to go play F'IN HORSE SHOES?!?!
No. No. No. Imo entertainment isn't a straight up need like sleep, food, or even the beauty ticker. It's something that should be sought out when NOT ordered to get us that darned COMPONENT dug out NOW.
Argh!!!
Are you setting their restrictions away from the default of 'anything' to 'work'? Generally its when you have their time slots set to "anything" that they do this kind of silly stuff. I usually set them to sleep 6 hours, 1 hour of anything, then work hours, then an hour of rec in middle or end before sleep.
I just had my colony non-violent doctor killed by man-hunter dromedary. He was tending to wargs, and he was mauled to death around 5 fricking, fully trained killing machines. None of them was sleeping.
That actually is a good point. It would be nice if some animals could be trained for guard duty. As in attacking anything hostile that enters home zone or protecting pawns being attacked automatically if they are assigned to guarding, without having to be attacked first or released.
And there also was a real nice mod, that made tamed animals go hunt for you from time to time, if properly trained. I liked that one too. It wouldn't hurt to add some neat features to tamed animals, since they got that strong nerf in form of diseases and tameness decay.
So, what can I say about new researches...
Geothermal, sterile materials and autocannon are effectively gated behind microelectronics (since it needs high-tech bench), so current position is misleading.
Microelectronics and multi-analyzer are still giving 50% research speed bonus, and rushing them is even more tempting.
Plate armor and other low-tech gear still look like a trap card. Flak Armor + Gunsmithing - 4500 points (including electricity, 2900 without), and all except flak armor has future development. Plate Armor + Greatbow + Long Blades - 3800 points, and only Smithing has future development.
11000 points for already hard nerfed deep drilling?
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.
2600 for multibarrel weapons? Really? Usability of minigun is questionable even if you'll get one for free.
Does anyone ever use smokepop belts?
Why is firefoam popper gated behind microelectronics, while firefoam shells and IEDs are not?
With harder geothermal reach river start feels even more enforced.
Quote from: Greep on July 10, 2018, 11:02:10 PM
More animal weirdness yay!
Had a toxic fallout, started madly building hydroponics since it happened right when the short boreal growing season starts. And it was the shortest toxic fallout in history: 4 days! Go randy!
Because of the instant animal rot, this means that any predators who don't go unconscious before they go hunting now all go manhunting on your butt, since they end up killing everything because they can't eat the corpses.
Additionally, I had a grizzly bear go manhunter and when I shot it, it just ran away ::)
More manhunting weirdness: A remote warg decided to go manhunter and gave the message, then almost immediately switched to hunting a raccoon. This may have always been happening and is only noticed with the new message system.
There's a difference between "manhunter" (that is a status, where they'll continue to hunt any humanlikes until they pass out) and simply hunting humans (which they'll pop up a letter for; "[Animal] is hunting [Specific Pawn]." If they're just hunting, then yeah shooting may work (but may also prompt revenge) but if they've actually gone "Manhunter" (the status) then they'll keep at it till downed.
Quote from: cactusmeat on July 11, 2018, 03:36:27 PM
it was my understanding that the animals were close to their earthly counterparts, not identical. still would be nice to know if that is correct.
Sure, but 37kg is a *lot*. That's a fox that weighs in over 80 lbs. I hope it gives a lot of meat and leather. Hell, a 10kg rat is a 22lb rat. That's a hell of a rat.
Research:
- I really enjoy the research speed being way slower. I find it makes it worth making "mid range" equipment that I'd normally just not bother about on my rush to high end gear.
- Plate armor and long blades cost way too much. There's too much really important early research (batteries, solar, turrets, microelectronics for the bonus research speed/benches, etc; investing the early research time in plate seems ridiculous given how comparable it'll be to research flak armor and such on your way into guns.
- Overall research gain speed is, from my perspective, pretty good. I tend to have poor researchers only for the first part of the game as it's pretty rare to get a good researcher who doesn't otherwise gimp you in the initial set of three colonists - at least, I don't ever try for one. I like that I'll actually make guns before Assault Rifles now whereas in the past I'd just research more then make Assault Rifles/Charge Rifles.
I've been working hard at using caravans to test how they (and quests) work in 1.0. One weird problem I've found is how captives are treated when you arrive home.
Normally, if you (for example) make a new prison cell, and "un-prison" a prisoners current cell, a warden will come and guide the prisoner to their new cell. This behavior works well, and looks fantastic from a player perspective.
When you arrive home with captives, however, your caravaners just leave them at the map edge (in restraints) and go about their day. The captives then (very slowly - restraints) walk to their prison cells. There are two problems with this.
First... Why are they walking to their cell? Why not just leave?
Second... They trip every trap they cross, and they cross every trap between them and their cell. I just had a
slaving run Bandit Camp clearing quest arrive back at my colony, only to have all my prisoners kill themselves on my base defenses when trying to get to their cell. This was particularly unfortunate as one of the prisoners was my main doctors' lover.
Obvious solution: Have pawns guide the prisoners to their cells, exactly as they guide a prisoner from a not-a-cell-anymore to their new cells. Ideally, you'd have the caravanners simply guide them in when they arrive back on your colony map.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 03:29:52 PM
Rat and squirrel corpses weight around 10 kg !!
"What about the R.O.U.S's?"
"Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist."
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 11, 2018, 07:06:15 PM
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 03:29:52 PM
Rat and squirrel corpses weight around 10 kg !!
"What about the R.O.U.S's?"
"Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist."
That actually explains a lot, if a 10kg squirrel jumped at me I bet I would lose a few limbs to it, probably an eye too!
@winter, yeah I just meant hunting pawn in those cases, not "an X has gone manhunter", I think it says manhunter these days on the pawn's description but maybe it doesn't.
Pawn with liver injury got an infection. Due to that wound, blood filtration is nearly non-existent and infection is progressing at an unbeatable rate.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
So, what can I say about new researches...
Geothermal, sterile materials and autocannon are effectively gated behind microelectronics (since it needs high-tech bench), so current position is misleading.
Microelectronics and multi-analyzer are still giving 50% research speed bonus, and rushing them is even more tempting.
Plate armor and other low-tech gear still look like a trap card. Flak Armor + Gunsmithing - 4500 points (including electricity, 2900 without), and all except flak armor has future development. Plate Armor + Greatbow + Long Blades - 3800 points, and only Smithing has future development.
11000 points for already hard nerfed deep drilling?
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.
2600 for multibarrel weapons? Really? Usability of minigun is questionable even if you'll get one for free.
Does anyone ever use smokepop belts?
Why is firefoam popper gated behind microelectronics, while firefoam shells and IEDs are not?
With harder geothermal reach river start feels even more enforced.
This is quite the same what I experienced.
I always think twice if I really need to research anything that has no follow up researched. It's nice for everything "unique and useful" like batteries and such, but why invest 1200 in bows if it is the half way to guns.
The higher research points result in ... well ... slower research. Now my colonist needs to stand next to a bench for 5 days instead of 3 for a key research. I like the slower system a bit, but it is also more boring. It's still that you rush the important only on another speed. It misses some form of "extra spice" than just choosing the same optimal nodes every time and standing next to the bench.
And the really high costs at the end just drag the game on. This may be intended, but for me after some point when I built all essential parts of the base, the game gets more boring since there is less to do for me. Like raids always have the same frequency. They could become a bit more often. Part of that is better now with more quests and stuff on the world map, which is fun. I still had a really boring period during the last winter in my game where caravaning was highly inefficient and nothing else happened.
Been about 3 seasons since last update on the base. Fully moved into the caves, and fully built up the infrastructure. Everything's stablish, but the steel crunch is pretty crazy with the whole deep drilling nerf and turret maintenance. Completely unable to build more than one hydroponics circle or equip myself, so infestation defense is very light and profits are pretty much 0. So I've basically been spamming stone deadfalls everywhere to hope that deals with infestations (probably won't). Chemfuel is also a big drain, might have to sell some stuff I like to buy wood->fuel once my pocket for drilling runs out :/
Caravans before the nerf were quite good. Snagged a vano power cell and power armor helmet from a tiny fort. Killed 2 wargs for an infinite chem reactor and some joywire. And dealt with something else for 2 res serums (that one was probably a bit too good ;)) Afterwards I'm getting like... a bionic arm or similar stuff. Not enough to risk more than a brain damaged suicide soloer on a known threat: none (ambush probably)
Major threats have been pretty dull meanwhile. First a psychic ship that had a very low roll, just a centipede and a scyther, so I just walked up to them and killed them. Then a pack of 11 dromedaries that walked into deadfalls and died, with the cannons only needing to kill a handful. Later on I have a poison ship landing on my cave entrance more than 50 tiles from the hydroponics, so... free, very very conveniently placed guardians :D Or starving to death if the 50 tile radius got reverted ::) Guess I'll find out soon enough.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Boy, researching a tribal run is a real pain now. It was already rough for tribals before. Year 1 ended and I've only learned 3 things and still working on electricity.
I'm fine with slower research in general but I think the point requirements for tribal are a little high with all the additional things we have to research now, and the increased length of them all.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
So, what can I say about new researches...
Geothermal, sterile materials and autocannon are effectively gated behind microelectronics (since it needs high-tech bench), so current position is misleading.
11000 points for already hard nerfed deep drilling?
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.
Does anyone ever use smokepop belts?
Why is firefoam popper gated behind microelectronics, while firefoam shells and IEDs are not?
With harder geothermal reach river start feels even more enforced.
Agreed. Also I never use smokepop belts.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 11, 2018, 12:57:33 PM
Using uranium as a turret ammo was a good change? O_o Now thats one crazy statement if i ever seen one. That turret was already of debatable use, with it missing 3\4 of the time, while costing a crapton to rearm and now it chomps your uranium supply, instead of steel. Kind of funny really.
A proper use of such rare and exotic resource would be adding several high-end glitterworld things to craft and build to make life a bit more convenient and tolerable, not sticking it into a gun barrel.
This is theorizing based on obsolete information and changelist notes. This thread is for discussing play experiences, not changelist theorizing please.
Quote from: Greep on July 11, 2018, 08:43:54 PM
Later on I have a poison ship landing on my cave entrance more than 50 tiles from the hydroponics, so... free, very very conveniently placed guardians :D Or starving to death if the 50 tile radius got reverted ::) Guess I'll find out soon enough.
I felt like it went beyond 50 radius in one of my maps. I don't recall making a base
begin so deep in a mountain/cave. I usually start at the edge with a kitchen or something, not much of an entrance. Maybe I get too impatient. Anyways, thanks for the inspiration. Careful with those deadfall traps. May not want to accidentally aggro the infestations at the wrong time. Just a thought.
@tynan .. I just finished the ship research, i do not want to spoil anything but good on you ... I will have to build a bit more in defense before i go .. but .. I will most likely build the ship more often now. :) ;) :D ;D :o 8) :P
I only now noticed it, but oh my god.
I *absolutely* love the new "Do until you have X" restrictions.
I've always struggled to automate tailoring in particular to ensure there's always fresh clothing for my pawns, without accidentally ending up not making anything because I've tons of worn clothes, or stuff made of the wrong materials.
Now, I have jobs set up to ensure there's always 11 (I have 10 pawns) of each item of clothing, counting those that are equipped, that are also made of the correct materials AND over 60% health. Now my pawns will just wander off and get changed if their clothes are too damaged (50% limit on outfit health), and immediately afterwards a new item will be made of whatever of the allowed materials is available. Because of the "equipped" limit, this ensures seasonal wear is adequately available too.
I can't begin to say how tickled pink I am with this. Not just for clothing, of course, but that's the first use case I had. These controls definitely make manufacturing a great deal easier.
Quote from: Jibbles on July 11, 2018, 10:14:56 PM
Quote from: Greep on July 11, 2018, 08:43:54 PM
Later on I have a poison ship landing on my cave entrance more than 50 tiles from the hydroponics, so... free, very very conveniently placed guardians :D Or starving to death if the 50 tile radius got reverted ::) Guess I'll find out soon enough.
I felt like it went beyond 50 radius in one of my maps. I don't recall making a base begin so deep in a mountain/cave. I usually start at the edge with a kitchen or something, not much of an entrance. Maybe I get too impatient. Anyways, thanks for the inspiration. Careful with those deadfall traps. May not want to accidentally aggro the infestations at the wrong time. Just a thought.
I actually spent about a year outside, so it's not as soon as you think. Thinking more on this, that ship would have landed right on top of me if I hadn't moved in, so I'm glad I did lol.
Just thought of an amusing exploit: The infestation from drilling too deep is small enough that if you really spam traps you can probably fully deal with it that way. So... mine for stone -> mining for food! Exploit? Or cute idea? You decide. Sounds like a Don't Starve trick
Quote from: Madman666 on July 10, 2018, 07:16:55 AM
If you so called Hardcore Players like to suffer through a play
lol...
nice use of color. I disagree that there are only two types of players.
As for feedback, haven't had much time, but I can say that I feel like the additional data showing chances of things, and the calculations for things (like caravan speed for instance) are very nice and tell me things about the game I never knew, sources of risk and so on.
However, I still feel like all this data is a bit disorganized. Cramming it all into tooltips is...a way to do it. I suggest that only the essential stuff be in tooltips and if there is more that could be said, it should basically be in a...somewhere else, a help topic. I know no one will read a help topic in game, but just saying, once you have read a tooltip with basic stuff in it, it will thenceforth be in your way.
I'd like to see a "bottom right of the screen" toggle for Informative Tooltips. This toggle would enable showing very detailed information in tooltips, and thus could be simply disabled to get rid of the "henceforth in your way" aspect of informative tooltips.
Insects are way too overpowered.
It seems several shots, freezing temperatures and a doomsday rocket launcher is nowhere near enough to get rid of them.
They are taking too little damage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=katBCwdNxNQ&feature=youtu.be
I had a raider die of no particular reason.
No blood loss, no vital organ destroyed, no limb lost, nothing.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 11:02:17 PM
I had a raider die of no particular reason.
No blood loss, no vital organ destroyed, no limb lost, nothing.
That's quite common. Whenever a non-player-faction pawn is downed, there's a chance - I think it used to be 2/3, and is now 4/5 - that they'll just die. So your raider racked up injuries, went into pain shock, and the grim reaper rolled dem bones.
Wearing armor in hot/cold biomes is challenging due to poor insulation. And insane equip delay makes situational wearing complicated.
This is true. Two of my guys who went out to fight the psychic ship in freezing weather got hypothermia and had to be dragged back to the warm colony base. It's generally ignorable outside of those event if you keep your base warm, though, as the shivering is negated when they go to bed/haul things inside.
Edit: heh. Dudes chilling in a 2x6 unroofed area working off cabin fever while a caravan decides to set up shop next to a poison ship. There's just so many things wrong with this pic ::)
Edit: hah. a day later "Hmmmmm.. fresh corpses lying everywhere... giant robotic potato monsters with huge ass guns. Must be a coincidence!"
[attachment deleted due to age]
You'd think advance power armor would protect its wearer from the elements. Even plate armor is good for the cold as it covers you entirely. Plate armor however, should goddamn suck in a desert.
Anyway, more on the moisture pumps (because yay swamps!)
There are a few QoL I'd like to see with pumps, or really soil in general:
1. The ability to differentiate types of soil. It's fine in temperate but a giant pain in swamps or jungles. You want to place your pumps so you can maximise the radius of the pump but then you miss that ONE SPOT of mud and have to resort to build a bridge on it.
2. Speaking of bridges, it's understandable you should build one on water, but not so much for mud. This was a pain BEFORE bridges, but thankfully it's toned down.
3. Would like to see an overlay of soil because sometimes it's hard to see with all the foliage and you don't want to plant corn or rice on gravel or something like that.
4. I see no reason to gate moisture pumps behind microelectronics research, considering how research is now slower and it does take a year for the pump to do it's job.
5. I don't mind the cost of the moisture pump, but maybe use 3 components instead of 4? You can't uninstall and reinstall it.
Well, plate doesn't have much insulation, though. I think mine has a measly 3C :/ Almost considering wearing a tuque but that's just asking to get my brains blow out.
A start without a half-decent cook. Had to use nutrient paste.
* It doesn't work without power and you can't make meals in advance. So during the solar flare or when it is broken, your pawns eat raw food. I'd get some backup survival meals, but...
* You can't prioritize paste over survival meals, pemmican or insect jelly. Forbidding them is not really a solution.
* Especially funny with animal handlers, since they often carry stuff like kibble, and eat it when hungry.
* Pawns can't take nutrient paste with them, so they have to return to the dining room every time.
* I really miss refrigerated hoppers. Placing the dispenser between rooms looks weird.
* Why animals can't use it? Would be a great way to feed them.
* Unlike stove, you can't move dispenser.
* Why damn thing is so huge?
* Why hopper looks like a toilet pan?
Started a new base. Only about 30 days in but the rampup looks reasonable so far (trends up but bumps down on setbacks). I'll try to post it if I get to 100 in the next few days.
A few thoughts:
- 24hr drug binges are very long. I could possibly understand this for a mental break but for chemical interest/fascination it's becoming a bit annoying (it seems to trigger a couple of times a year, though I haven't been following very closely). Thankfully I haven't been raided or had another all-hands situation (yet) while a pawn was on a recreational binge, but it would be a bit frustrating if I did.
- The tree planting research is pretty expensive given that (if it's relevant to your map) it's a high-priority one. Once you do get it, the planting itself is also pretty slow. ~5hrs per tree for a 9-skill grower is about what I measured. If it was 2 or 3 I wouldn't be bothered very much. I suppose that making it much faster would make the wood shortage on sparse maps irrelevant, so there's a reason for it to be long. Mixed feelings there.
- Speaking of hard-to-get trees, it may be nice if production benches could be made from blocks. I suppose I could make them from steel if I were really desperate, but it seems weird that stone isn't an option. It exacerbates the tree crunch at the start of sparse maps.
- Hydroponics basins are very expensive. It's an awful lot of steel for a small number of growing spots, even considering the fertility bonus. I guess they're important for dirtless maps, but it's almost impossible to justify their use otherwise. And this is all to say nothing of how quickly they kill plants during a power outage (fortunately, solar flares don't seem to last long enough to quite kill a crop on their own).
Blugh. Apparently the 50 poison radius WAS reverted... or it just never worked to begin with maybe. plants ~65 tiles away getting poisoned :/ At least the caravans killed all but the centipedes.
Quote from: Greep on July 12, 2018, 12:54:52 AM
Blugh. Apparently the 50 poison radius WAS reverted... or it just never worked to begin with maybe. plants ~65 tiles away getting poisoned :/ At least the caravans killed all but the centipedes.
It did work when it was 50 tiles, i think the range is now 100 tiles. I left a poison ship when it was 50 tiles on my base for a couple of seasons lol
I had to shoot a bunch of deer because the herd was munching too hard on my crops.
Next day I found this:
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41766.0;attach=25864)
[attachment deleted due to age]
I haven't been able to gauge most of the researches because Randy is being stingy with people on my NB run, but I'm a fan of it so far because some of my biggest gripes since A15 has been that research and skill gain speed were too fast for my taste.
Also, is there any way we could get a research cost modifier added to the scenario menu? I find the Research Speed Factor and the Research Speed multipliers are a bit difficult to get right.
Edit: I just remembered and wanted to comment on how much I dislike the new tree planting time. It took 4.5 hours for my level 9 grower to plant one poplar...
Reporting new (to me) bug that didn't happen the last time I played, last Sunday night. I've been playing for about 5 hours today (still am, in fact) and I've had the game go to pause on me several times. My hands are off the keyboard, I'm just watching my pawns do their things at 3X speed, then suddenly every thing comes to a screeching halt as the game goes to game speed = 0.
I just had this happen as I watching for it. There were no new events associated with it, though I do have a bulk good trader wandering around on my map who had shown up several in game hours earlier. I can unpause it in the usual way, and I'm getting no error messages. I am running several mods that I will be happy to list if that helps in anyway.
Quote from: Bowman on July 12, 2018, 03:56:02 AM
Hi,
I have tried posting the ramp-up factor but I cannot find it in my game, I enabled dev mode in the options menu but I cannot see the rampup in the graphs at all. Is it a separate graph type? Should it be part of the wealth graph, or the statistics tab? Or a new tab? I don't see any changes to the history window. This might be because the save game started on an earlier build of 1.0. I can send you the save game if that helps - it's a 5-year game, I started playing at 1.0.1938 and finished now on 1961.
Ramp-up factor should appear in an option called "Debug" in the "Select Graph" button's pop-up menu in the History tab. However, it won't appear until you start a new game with dev mode on, since the update that introduced it.
Quote from: Anniebenlen on July 12, 2018, 03:48:44 AM
Reporting new (to me) bug that didn't happen the last time I played, last Sunday night. I've been playing for about 5 hours today (still am, in fact) and I've had the game go to pause on me several times. My hands are off the keyboard, I'm just watching my pawns do their things at 3X speed, then suddenly every thing comes to a screeching halt as the game goes to game speed = 0.
I just had this happen as I watching for it. There were no new events associated with it, though I do have a bulk good trader wandering around on my map who had shown up several in game hours earlier. I can unpause it in the usual way, and I'm getting no error messages. I am running several mods that I will be happy to list if that helps in anyway.
Something must have caused it. It'd be great if you could go back to the last save beforehand and see if you can reproduce it. If so, please tell us how and/or post the savegame (in the bugs forum). Many thanks!
At about 300k wealth, 13 colonists, Cass Extreme, I've had several raids with over 20 mechs, but haven't seen any pirate in power armour yet. Feels a bit strange. Also I want to take their power armour, you know.
New build!
Still hoping to see those ramp-up graphs (see my last post for info on how).
Thanks for the ongoing information everyone. Looking forward to more play stories and experience-based feedback.
---
Changelist is for reference, but please refrain from writing thoughts on the changelist alone in this thread. This thread is for experience sharing and discussion of play experiences with the build. (Unlimited theorizing is welcome in other threads of course, I'm just trying to keep things focused here.)
Reduce chance and increase interval of beavers incident.
Adjusted research speed stat so it crosses 100% at level 8.
Swap colored lights and firefoam in the research tree.
Research adjustments:
-Don't send ship battle warning letter in peaceful mode.
-Adjust various research costs.
-Don't require high tech bench for projects before micro electronics.
Factor HealthTuning.ImmunityGainGlobalFactor into all the defs immunityPerDaySick.
Rebalance diseases a bit.
Rebalance immunity effects of beds and resting so being out of bed isn't quite so deadly.
Added a subtle research speed factor to difficulty settings.
Adjusted some difficulty settings.
Rename hard/extra hard to rough/hard. Adjust difficulty descriptions.
Adjust bow art.
Reduced insect jelly from hives to 30. Increased scar chance to 2%. Made chased person raids tougher. Made frenzy inspirations 8 days long. Reduced food poisoning blood filtration impact so it's not a death sentence with disease.
Standardize and adjust quest durations and make quests a bit more lucrative earlier. Improved quest feedback in a few cases.
Quest rewards max out sooner.
Made sure UniqueVerbOwnerID() is always unique.
Invalid curMeleeVerb is now removed on load.
Loading a field with Unsaved attribute is now an error.
Tools ids are now generated from their index instead of specified in the xml.
Fix: Incorrect site threat points used while generating rewards.
Site threat points are now distributed equally among all site parts and core to support multi-part sites without making them insanely strong. Added "Spawn site with points" debug option.
Fixed some post-merge issues with rewards.
Bandit camp quest rewards and item stash contents total market value now depends on the site threat points.
Quote from: Wintersdark on July 11, 2018, 10:29:43 PM
I only now noticed it, but oh my god.
I *absolutely* love the new "Do until you have X" restrictions.
I've always struggled to automate tailoring in particular to ensure there's always fresh clothing for my pawns, without accidentally ending up not making anything because I've tons of worn clothes, or stuff made of the wrong materials.
Now, I have jobs set up to ensure there's always 11 (I have 10 pawns) of each item of clothing, counting those that are equipped, that are also made of the correct materials AND over 60% health. Now my pawns will just wander off and get changed if their clothes are too damaged (50% limit on outfit health), and immediately afterwards a new item will be made of whatever of the allowed materials is available. Because of the "equipped" limit, this ensures seasonal wear is adequately available too.
I can't begin to say how tickled pink I am with this. Not just for clothing, of course, but that's the first use case I had. These controls definitely make manufacturing a great deal easier.
Yup, this is really good, thanks.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 11, 2018, 03:10:51 PM
I also don't really like the research change much and think making it x2 longer will achieve nothing, but make it just slow, while lategame researchers will still eventually be promoted to janitors which i find incredibly dissapointing. There really should be a way to use intellectual skill for the good of the colony aside from researching. I just can't believe a good scientist can stop being useful after a while at all. I'd like a more substantial research system rework, but oh, well. At least its straightforward enough - i'll just apply x2 research speed as a scenario condition and be done with it, so nothing critical.
I don't mind the research taking time. Hilariously though on my recent game I got an ancient danger with sarcophagi that gave me two high-level researchers, so with two benches and an analyser I'm still absolutely sweeping it. I recognise that this is an atypical play though!
Having something for intellectual people to do that isn't research would be good, but what?
Is there a way of having an "infinite" research that ticks up certain stats?
Quote from: Tynan on July 11, 2018, 10:09:14 PM
This is theorizing based on obsolete information and changelist notes. This thread is for discussing play experiences, not changelist theorizing please.
I am sorry, but no, its not. It now has a decent chance of hitting a pawn, if said pawn hasn't any kind of cover and it does mostly oneshot them, but it hardly dealt with a weak early raid 6 people and seventh got away (it spent like 10 shots to hit a guy behind a rock and then 6 on another), because it run out of uranium to shoot. And that is for 60 uranium per barrel replacement. Its not useless anymore, thanks for that, but the term "of debatable use" is still accurate.
The sniper turret seems to have a pretty niche use where it's great but not be that good for everywhere else. Personally I'd find a minigun turret much more useful - make up for accuracy penalties with a shitload of projectiles, much better at softening up swarms of raiders before they hit you.
Also, what about a flamethrower turret that uses chemfuel? Useful Area defense, with a downside of a huge explosion radius if they get to it.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 04:09:54 AM
Something must have caused it. It'd be great if you could go back to the last save beforehand and see if you can reproduce it. If so, please tell us how and/or post the savegame (in the bugs forum). Many thanks!
Certainly! I have posted a link to the save game file saved right before the random pause. At the time it happened I didn't really do anything, I had my hands off the keyboard. The last action I took before the pause was to click on a notice of a cargo pod drop of rice. The bug happens before the bulkgoods trader leaves the map. If there is anything else I need to add please let me know, I will be back on tomorrow and on later dates than that of course.
Immunity starting at 0% while plague is starting at 46% is kinda harsh.
Also, this dromedary is now considered carried despite only minor movement penalty, which cases caravan (two dromedaries and one pawn) to be barely mobile.
Animals refusing to move when sick is a pain in the ass not only in caravans. Even if they totally can move, they waste handler's time who feed them, and they tend to use good meals for that. Especially stupid when they are feeding small animals like chickens (who also tend to catch infections en masse).
[attachment deleted due to age]
Hey Tynan, can you add an area allowed for prisoners? Its like the animal area in the old versions but this time for prisoners or specific prisoners. I want to build a torture room >:D
Tahnks for listening!
Hi,
Here is my current game after 1 game year.
- Cassandra Classic Medium
- v 1.0.1961
Hope this helps!
[attachment deleted due to age]
A couple more graphs, this time of wealth & population
[attachment deleted due to age]
More than a few times now I've rolled a very nice pawn and hit "Next" only to realise that I didn't move them into the "Selected" section on the starting pawns page.
Any chance we can get a warning of "currently viewed pawn isn't selected to embark" when hitting the next button? I imagine this would be similar to the WorkTypesDisabledForEveryone check.
Quote from: kchou94 on July 12, 2018, 05:31:29 AM
Hi,
Here is my current game after 1 game year.
- Cassandra Classic Medium
- v 1.0.1961
Hope this helps!
Thank you! Very interesting.
Quote from: Ra66itInc on July 12, 2018, 05:24:31 AM
Hey Tynan, can you add an area allowed for prisoners? Its like the animal area in the old versions but this time for prisoners or specific prisoners. I want to build a torture room >:D
Tahnks for listening!
This, but for building jails with individual cells/rec rooms/yards.
Here's an annoying little bug - If a pawn moves because you ordered it to attack an enemy, you can't order other pawns to move to the tile they were previously occupying until their target is dead or they start moving toward another movement (but not attack) order. Here (https://imgur.com/yTmkphz)'s a little picture just in case - Nonna is considered to be occupying the red carpet even though she's been ordered to attack Grey and will never return there on her own.
I've been having a lot of fun with 1.0! I'd post a ramp-up screenshot, but my colony started before you added that option. Maybe I'll start a new one tomorrow for that. I'm especially enjoying caravan missions. I never really got into them before, maybe because I felt like I was spreading my pawns too thin by sending them out. I'd love to see more random events possible for caravans, like asking you if you want to assist a neutral caravan that's under attack or something. I'd especially like more to see more quest-only structure rewards to bring home, I'll keep an eye out for any mods for that.
Might be the build that simply corrupted my save, but right now, when my pawns get an infection, the immunity just stays at 0%, forcing me to either amputate or use healer serum. I'll test on a new save, when I find the time for it.
On another note. In 1.0, small creatures seem excessively powerful. Many times now, I've seen rats taking down timberwolves, when they are hunting them.
Made an account just to chime in. I'm copping the same thing, immunity hasn't increased across several pawns (infection x1 and malaria x3), however, it is a save I've been playing over the last few builds.
Yeah, immunity was broken. Sorry. I'm pushing a quick fix now. Update in 10 minutes or so.
Quote from: JohnLG on July 12, 2018, 06:24:21 AM
Here's an annoying little bug - If a pawn moves because you ordered it to attack an enemy, you can't order other pawns to move to the tile they were previously occupying until their target is dead or they start moving toward another movement (but not attack) order. Here (https://imgur.com/yTmkphz)'s a little picture just in case - Nonna is considered to be occupying the red carpet even though she's been ordered to attack Grey and will never return there on her own.
I've been having a lot of fun with 1.0! I'd post a ramp-up screenshot, but my colony started before you added that option. Maybe I'll start a new one tomorrow for that. I'm especially enjoying caravan missions. I never really got into them before, maybe because I felt like I was spreading my pawns too thin by sending them out. I'd love to see more random events possible for caravans, like asking you if you want to assist a neutral caravan that's under attack or something. I'd especially like more to see more quest-only structure rewards to bring home, I'll keep an eye out for any mods for that.
Will investigate that (but maybe not super soon). Thanks.
For future, bugs go well in the bugs forum!
Somebody else said it before me in this 160 pages thread, that I don't feel to roll through all of them to find out who was it but...
I just finished research of "Prosthetics", cochlear implant...interesting...but so far...hearing impairment was a never an issue in game....is it now? But like somebody else said it...: Can we get "Hand implant" instead of full arm implant ONLY?
So here is my latest colony. Tribal start, Cass - Hard (version 1961), temperate forest, large hills, yeah round growing.
Things started out ok though the ancient danger had more in than I'm used to. Two centipedes, a scyther and a lancer. This was in the first week after a save scrub I did beat them but I did have to use some wooden traps to soften them up and take out the scyther and lancer. Had a few missions one which was for an exceptional plasteel longsword. Most of my colonists can't shoot but are good at melee (two of my starting pawns had 14 and 13 skill). Most raids so far have been easy to handle with shooters using the top storeroom as shooting points and picking people off as they cross the river.
Research has been slower but that got compensated for by having two people research. I went for plate armour and long blades before getting electricity and microelectronics. The plate armour helped a lot during the raids my casualties would have been higher without it. I wanted to be able to fight people off more than I wanted a freezer and I had a lot of melee fighters. I didn't go for flak as I had alot of steel on my map and not a lot of components.
One thing that threw me was traps hitting my colonists. I don't remember it being changed back. I also had raiders zig zag to avoid the trap to the right of my base even though the traps were new and no raids had happened between me placing them.
I haven't got to the turrets yet and it would require a lot of trading to get the plasteel and uranium for them (I turned off fog just to see if there was any of either on my map as I took the screenshots, research for deep drilling is along way off as a tribal). I have started producing flake to take with me on caravans to sell if I meet anyone and they have something I want (such as a sniper rifle and bionic leg on one trip) it's light and valuable as i don't have any pack animals yet (they all got hunted to make pemmican for caravanning).
The two hardest fights for the colony were a poison ship and a siege. The poison ship spawned 8 scyther 3 lancers, at first I tried snipping but that proved time consuming and risky as they are both quite fast so hard to kite. But some friendly wanders decided to walk across the map which distracted them. Then I pulled them through a choke point in the river and my melee held the line and everything got diced and shot with few injuries. The siege seemed to build it's mortars faster than I am used to or expected and they did set my research/production room on fire it was nice of them to create a heat vent in the roof by exploding it for me.
The change to research speed felt ok though on a hotter biome with less wood I don't think I would have managed anywhere close to as well and would have had to rush electricity. Also with how much longer tribals take to research things river maps are a huge boon reducing the need and time to research batteries and solar power, one of the main reasons I chose the map.
There are a ton of things I missed that I wanted to say but I'm not totally with it (tooth abscess yay).
[attachment deleted due to age]
Thanks Broken Reality! Looks like you only had 4 pawns go down and never had one killed.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:14:42 AM
Thanks Broken Reality! Looks like you only had 4 pawns go down and never had one killed.
Thanks to save+load, I have never had a pawn die on me either. Just a LOT of loading screens...
The game is designed for loss and recovery, reloading saves when any tiny thing goes wrong really neuters it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
EDIT: Many players have reported playing with frequent save-reloading and then, upon dropping difficulty a notch or two and changing to permadeath, reported a much richer experience. It really is possible to set settings to harm one's own experience, and for many players (not all) permadeath is the better choice. Reloading is a good idea in other cases, of course, since no one playstyle is right for everyone. But for most players, the improvement comes in changing from reloading to permadeath, as so many have reported.
I am disliking the "Door closing delay" now, because of the placing between my kitchen and the freezer. The kitchen needs to be at 10C or else the Fueled Stove suffer a penalty due to Bad Temperature. At the same time the Freezer needs to be kept at low temperature or it defeats it purpose. I also have my Butchering table within the kitchen in this game at least, sometimes I have it elsewhere. But this means that now, the kitchen door spends more time "opened" than before the new update and my meal production suffers a "strange" penalty.
I guess the change you made is aimed towards "Urban Combat" instead...but is negatively affecting my cooks production in which two natural adjacent rooms of opposing temperatures cannot coexist with each other. And this scenario is in Tropical Forest with Permanent Summer. My kitchen is a makeshift old room of steel, so the low insulation should still keep my kitchen warm... but in every door opening... my kitchen temperature drops too low.
I personally classify meal production into 4 stages.
* Initial stage:
If you don't have a dedicated cooker because you don't randomize to super-cheesy levels to get a perfect starting team of pawns to a Dream Team level, anyone assigned to cooking may not have any Passions, so at the start of the game, whoever is sent to do the cooking will probably spend full day in the kitchen.
* Second stage:
The cooker should be able to provide a meal for the entire crew before lunch, and shall continue in the kitchen for the next batch which is dinner. I am fine in seeing the cooker still spending full days in the kitchen while the cook does NOT fail to provide 2 meals per days for each pawn, unlike the first stage in which some pawns may be forced to eat raw food as the cooker improves his/her cooking skills.
* Third stage:
The cooker with just one single Fueled Stove, should be able to finish the 2 meals per pawn production and have at least one quarter of the day to perform a secondary task, I don't care which but that is pawn dependent based on the character skill set which is random, but I mean... do something else.
* Fourth stage:
My Cook, should be able to prepare 3 meals per pawn, the daily 2 plus one for next day. If I have 5 pawns at that time, I expect 15 meals and the Cook, doing a secondary task of player choice within a same day.
Additional Fueled Stoves or Electric Stoves can be built to increase production, and better if your cooks have either Interested Passion or Burning Passion... ... ...
But as of now in my current game I'm in day 147 with 11 pawns and my cook just cant make 22 meals yet. I have a total of 4 colonists in rotation:
* Two pawns have priority level 1, both have Interested Passion and are at level 7 and 8 in cooking.
* Two other pawns have priority level 2, one is Interested Passion skill level 10. The other has no Passion and is skill level 5, aimed for butchering.
It just can't be that my meal production is so low when my entire colony is already at stage level 4 where meal production should almost take a bit more than half a day but not 2/3rds of a day but instead...none of my cooks can make 2 meals a day per pawn yet.
I usually increase a secondary cooking stove after my tenth colonist, and since I'm at 11, I should... it's just for a variety of reasons that my base building plans are delayed, typically fair to the game as Randy keeps showering me with diseases in tropical forest... but I notice a large delay in meal production that never happened to me in B18 and previous Alphas.
Anybody else seen meal production delay...to be...too slow...?
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Playing it via reloading every single thing that you doesn't like (most common reason - death of a favorite pawn) is indeed not the most fun way to play it. However with the game's tendency of showing you a big middle finger out of nowhere from time to time (plague on half colony, then a flare followed by a raid is a good example or a crazy lucky pirate with a doom launcher dodging every single shot, then just wiping half your force with it), making permadeath enabled by default won't achieve anything. People who savescum will still savescum.
Quote from: ReZpawner on July 12, 2018, 08:22:33 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:14:42 AM
Thanks Broken Reality! Looks like you only had 4 pawns go down and never had one killed.
Thanks to save+load, I have never had a pawn die on me either. Just a LOT of loading screens...
The only save scum I did was being surprised by how much was in the ancient danger it was more than I have faced in the past. So instead of wasting time starting over as this was week one of the game I scummed it. My pawns don't go down much because they had good armour and I fought smart, plus I had some very good melee weapons one from a quest and one from an inspiration. My position was easy to pick people off as they crossed the river so not much risk is involved defending there (there was a legendary assault rifle in the ancient danger). Also I was never facing massive raids so things were manageable.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
What makes this a terrible way to play? As far as Im aware games are meant to be fun, if save scumming is fun for him then how is that terrible? This style of play is a choice its not being forced on anyone.
As Madman said:
Quote from: Madman666 on July 12, 2018, 08:58:37 AM
Now that was uncalled for. A lot of people like it unforgiving and brutal (excluding me). If you don't like it, that doesn't make its design terrible.
This works in this situation too. A lot of people like save scumming, If you dont like it that doesnt make it a terrible way to play.
Tynan is somewhat right, but then again if the person that is playing it is having fun then it doesn't matter. I personally play the 1.0 unstable with saves on but i'm still learning the game so most of the time i'm like "Hey, i'll save now and try this, if it doesnt work then im reloading", makes me learn the game in a much faster pace.
Nearing the 7th year in my current colony on 1.0, Cassandra Hard - Base Layout: https://i.imgur.com/fU7zchA.jpg
It has often been brought up, but I waited til I got enough experience with those - Uranium as barrel material for sniper turrets is a bad choice:
- Started with two sniper turrets guarding a (straight, long) entrance to my (mountain) base - they're extremely powerful and do a great job with slowing down attacks
- got lucky with the LRMS scanner and got a lump of ~1300 Uranium (it was the only LRMS find in 6 years, got a jade one a couple days ago, you might want to look into that)
- Expanded to 4 sniper turrets later on since I had the materials to replace the barrels several times (or so I thought)
- it has been now 3 years without getting any uranium outside of a super rare trade since the LRMS doesn't do his job, and I didn't even bother with the Ship yet - it seems to be an exclusive "or": either ship to burn all your uranium, or sniper turrets - can't have both with how rare the resource is
I'd recommend either switching the barrel material to plasteel (since you can actually get those from traders, instead of gambling and tons of fails - maybe increase the barrel costs if it's plasteel) or making Uranium avaiable more often (preferably through trading, since you want to enforce caravaning).
The rarity of Uranium makes Sniper turrets (despite being the superior defense weapon for long straight corridors) not worth in the long run, since you're guaranteed ot run out of it quickly with how often attacks happen (unless you shut them down for manhunter and "minor" raids, but that's not really good either)
Anyways, hope that helps with some feedback
Huge annoyance: Time slows to 1x for the entire duration of a raid or similar event. That is not how it works in 18b -- it will eventually speed back up after a brief window.
Cassandra extreme, tribal start, temperate forest:
1: tribal raid sneaking in through an open door, 1 colonist killed, a few downed. In the aftermath one colonist ran wild
2: lost a caravan of 2 guys, 1 killed, 1 probably downed, the temp map closed instantly. It seems to count as only one colonist lost on the ramp-up. In the colony colonists had the colonist killed -3 and colonist banished to death -6 for what i think is the surviving, downed one
3: a chased refugee, which was incapable of violence, i draft him next to a psychic ship, the following tribal raid killed him (and wrecked the mechs)
(https://i.imgur.com/zTou3su.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CQfenwY.jpg)
Edit: follow-up, i also lost a caravan in an outpost, both pawns were downed, captured, same thing at home, kidnapped pawns also count as downed whereas the net result for a captured or kidnapped pawn is closer to a killed pawn than a downed one for the colony on the long term.
Bloody hell.. experienced an infestation on a flat map for the first time in ages.
https://imgur.com/a/HZrBor3
17 megaspiders, 25 spelopedes, 28 megascarabs, ~175k wealth, 16 people.
~160 days in, Cass, hard, arid 60/60, flat, tribal.
Playing almost exclusively melee with 1 hunter and.. Rabe picking up a minigun there for crowd control. His combat log is ridiculous and has over 110 hits on insects from that fight.
Did some quick reloading to check his stats - he did ~1200 damage!
Clean up was a bit of a mess with a number of infections and one seriously damaged eye but overall it went way better than I thought it would.
To be honest I haven't got a clue how you'd clear that size infestation, in that mess, without significant melee power or some benny-hill-kiting-shenanigans.
As it stands I was amazed that nobody died. That's the kind of fight you expect to have to play over at least once for a tactics revision if nothing else.
Actually upon looking at this mess with fresh eyes I suddenly realize I had 2 antigrain warheads just sitting on my floor ~10 tiles east of the fight. Bloody lucky those didn't get hit by a minigun.
Think I'll move those :P
Have to say that spears really are the weapon of choice at the moment and they did great vs those evil bugs. The AP on spears is sufficient to simply ignore the armor of the bugs entirely with the exception of the Megascarab - they however are so flimsy that virtually any melee weapon will gib them.
Quite a lot of the megaspiders in particular died with brain or heart injuries from spears. If I'd been using maces there I'm almost certain I would've lost that fight.
Edit: It's worth noting that I was well aware that my wealth was accelerating out of my control (I'd spent a lot of time caravaning around and not enough time selling my excess crap) and I'd recently had a massive haygrass/devilstrand crop finish growing almost simultaneously.
I'd also just finished equipping everyone with shield belts.
Further Edit: It'd be really nice if wounded pawns would lay down in Hospital beds in preference to medical sleeping spots. If you have a mix of medical bed types it can be quite fiddly to get people in the objectively better beds.
Over 70 insects on 16 people is kind of insane. And thats with 175k wealth only? I wonder what ll be on wealth 400k. I do admire you surviving this hell with melee oriented colony. Amazing job. That insane amount would be 100% the end for me. And thats isn't even extreme, lol.
If i didn't see that screenshot, i'd say thats bs. No matter how i look at this, i can't even imagine me surviving with such hive amount.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 12, 2018, 10:48:49 AM
Over 70 insects on 16 people is kind of insane. And thats with 175k wealth only? I wonder what ll be on wealth 400k. I do admire you surviving this hell with melee oriented colony. Amazing job. That insane amount would be 100% the end for me. And thats isn't even extreme, lol.
If i didn't see that screenshot, i'd say thats bs. No matter how i look at this, i can't even imagine me surviving with such hive amount.
I don't even blame you, it honestly felt like a very sudden game ender. I absolutely crushed the last attack (Siege with 2 doomsday rockets ~ 20 people - baited the rockets with excellent shield belts) simply by running over the top of them with melee weapons vs guns.
It was completely one sided. Can't say the same about that infestation, sheesh.
Edit: Here's the wounds - Bloody lucky overall https://imgur.com/a/2y3OvyU
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
If the player is having fun, how can you tell them they're having fun wrong?
I'll never use permadeath, because frankly the game has too many bugs and bullshit mechanics that can lead to stupid deaths and other situations that I just don't feel are legit. That doesn't mean I always reload when a pawn dies. But I don't judge those who do. Going back and restrategizing toward the goal of everyone surviving is a perfectly reasonable gameplay style, imo.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
With harder geothermal reach river start feels even more enforced.
You know, there's generators,solar and wind ?
I think it's not game 'enforcing' You, but would say You 'limiting' yourself and not liking it.
It's finally viable to build any of that while getting research towards Geothermal, especially while playing as a tribe.
I must say it was rewarding to have Electricity researched after ~40 days, putting first wind plant and have some normal lights in cave-rooms instead of torches. Not usual speed run to Geothermal, and having everything electricity-powered by this time.
And as Madman666 i agree that having no research pawn hinders research progress - BUT - since i have pawns that are capable in other fields (mining/fighting/medic/growing) i can easily offset that by having enough time for research because other tasks are going fast and pawns are alive and more-or-less healthy.
About permadeath - i would leave it as opt-in.
Mostly, because game got one thing very well - players get attached to colonists. So it's one thing to loose the pawn You don't care about, other the one that survived from beginning (without a leg or two). And some players like to have happy little games rather than having everything ruined by this stupid yorkie bite.
Just finished a very short and depressing run. I don't feel like I misplayed so much as the game simply decided I was done playing it for now.
Cassandra Extreme, in a tropical jungle.
Things start promising when I capture 2 raiders with 10+ melee. I rushed for Flak and had 3 melee fighters all kitted out in full flak with maces by around day 35 or so. I have 2 crafters with decent shooting backing them up with the bolt action and revolver, and was debating if I should push for microelectronics now when the disasters happened.
It begins with a raid of 8 raiders. The downfall of the colony results from a raider Kat, who has molotovs. While my melee deals with the raider in front of them in melee, they start throwing molotovs into the mix. I have to move up to engage her which lets other units in the kill hall shoot at my melee. I do win the fight, but I take a lot of damage in the process and 2 pawns nearly burn to death.
This wouldn't have been bad in and of itself, except that a melee ends up losing an eye to friendly fire, and my best pawn, a too smart brawler loses both an eye and a leg. That turned out not to matter as she immediately had a break from the pain and reverted into a wild woman. My tamer promptly minor breaks into a daze so that I can't even try to fix it, and then my newly wild pawn, one of my melee fighters and my own doctor who is still sane/injured are hit with sleeping sickness.
With time, this might have been salvageable, but Cassandra decides I'm done and sends a sapper raid at me to finish me. This raid comes only 70 hours after the previous raid. Had I had even 1 more day to recover I might have survived, it was a close fight as it was. Even if I had survived though, I know a colony death spiral when I see one, and I don't know if I could have recovered.
I hope I just had bad luck and that the old days of never being able to actually fight with your pawns due to the threat of permanent injury have not returned.
So what went well: On the plus side, I think my strategy of rushing for flak was good. I felt like I was well equipped very early. Rushing for Microelectronics doesn't really make much sense to me, since there isn't a whole lot you can even do with it without earlier techs. Maybe a shield belt rush might be viable but I'd probably rather just have smithing and machining early.
What I could have done differently: I should have replaced my wooden defenses with stone earlier. I had the stone but was prioritizing other projects. I should have considered a raider with molotovs to be a major threat and played around it. Beyond that, there wasn't much I could have done. The breaks occurred due to pain, which might have been avoidable if the fight went better. Nothing I could have done about sleeping sickness but it wouldn't have been so bad if the fight went better and the breaks hadn't happened.
(https://i.imgur.com/yc7F3CE.jpg)
Quote from: Boboid on July 12, 2018, 11:17:49 AM
I don't even blame you, it honestly felt like a very sudden game ender. I absolutely crushed the last attack (Siege with 2 doomsday rockets ~ 20 people - baited the rockets with excellent shield belts) simply by running over the top of them with melee weapons vs guns.
It was completely one sided. Can't say the same about that infestation, sheesh.
Edit: Here's the wounds - Bloody lucky overall https://imgur.com/a/2y3OvyU
You know, while admire you overcoming this crazyness, i really think this isn't how it should be on hard and maybe not even on extreme. Its weird that infestations actually scale with wealth in the first place (at least with raiders its justified by them knowing you have a lot of crap hoarded, so more will join to try and steal it), but ok, let them scale. But not to this extent. Whats this? Like... 20 friggin hives? Its at the level of that Arachnid mod, that sent game-ending waves at you. Yeah i know that with armor rework you can survive lots of hurt coming your way, but thats still excessive. Heaps excessive.
QuoteAnybody else seen meal production delay...to be...too slow...?
No. And having so much cooks at 1 priority is weird practice and must lead to big delays in prodiction. Lets theoretise a bit: Colony wake up. Some of your guy start cooking, others cooks goes for secondary jobs(mining for example). Then your first cook decide to eat and free stove, your miner decide to cook and goes all 3-4 hours from that far mining site to that stove. All this time stove is blocked and not working, pawns waste a lot of time on unnecessary walking, etc. So far best practice is dedicate one job to one pawn and make secondary tasks as much "close" to main tasks area as possible. (like cooking -> cleaning/hauling, farming -> hauling, etc)
Also if you have issues with temperature because of frequent walking between kitchen and freezer you just need to add heater to kitchen and cooler to freezer 1-2 additional devices not a big issue. Also double wall around freezer and airlock helps.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 11, 2018, 03:10:51 PM
I also don't really like the research change much and think making it x2 longer will achieve nothing, but make it just slow, while lategame researchers will still eventually be promoted to janitors which i find incredibly dissapointing. There really should be a way to use intellectual skill for the good of the colony aside from researching. I just can't believe a good scientist can stop being useful after a while at all. I'd like a more substantial research system rework, but oh, well. At least its straightforward enough - i'll just apply x2 research speed as a scenario condition and be done with it, so nothing critical.
I've long thought that Intellectuals could play the role of "Psychologist / Therapist" to help prevent or cure Mental Breaks. To help clear up Rivalries or reduce insults against certain colonists. This could require certain furniture to accomplish and the "therapy" could require maintenance, like animal training does. I'd think of these "therapies" like status buffs that only serve to counter the indicated "problem." Just a thought. Any others on this? Could get way cool.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.
Isn't this just part of the game? Isn't this normal? If one starts the game with a poor research pawn -- one knows what they're getting themself into. Let's not cheapen the game so that someone can have awesome hunting, building, growing, etc. and then also have decent research, even though other priorities were made -- because the game helped you do it. Can we avoid adding "crutches" to the game?
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 12, 2018, 11:41:20 AM
I've long thought that Intellectuals could play the role of "Psychologist / Therapist" to help prevent or cure Mental Breaks. To help clear up Rivalries or reduce insults against certain colonists. This could require certain furniture to accomplish and the "therapy" could require maintenance, like animal training does. I'd think of these "therapies" like status buffs that only serve to counter the indicated "problem." Just a thought. Any others on this? Could get way cool.
Sounds like a thing that a pawn with a real good Social skill would be good at, not an Intellectual.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
Why is firefoam popper gated behind microelectronics, while firefoam shells and IEDs are not?
Firefoam Shells could be nearly as simple as compressed chemicals trapped into a metal cylinder. A Popper is going to require some automation-abilities and triggers to facilitate use and application. I'd highlight an example of soldiers firing mortar shells from a mortar (very simple) to soldiers setting up a mortar shell as an improvised IED, using electronic triggers and a cellphone. They're not quite the same ...
My colony had 6 melee and 5 ranged. Forcing the enemy to run over a river to attack you makes them easy pickings and the melee finish off anything that gets close. Melee feels far more satisfying to use now for me. Before I would rarely pick melee colonists at the start. I also feel that tribal start allows you to have better fighters in general as you have more pawns to get the skills you need to start (constructor, doctor, grower, cook, crafter).
Rivers have gone from something I rarely wanted on a map to now I want one with the new watermills especially as tribal. The river is the main reason I did so well in fights TBH. I am enjoying combat more in 1.0 than in B18, the different raids, melee feeling useful and so far I haven't used a kill box but I also kept my wealth in check putting what I got in to better weapons. The changes to combat and raids have made me experiment.
I definitely got lucky on my run I didn't have an infestation like Boboid's (the number of insects seems crazy) and was never really hugely threatened except by the siege and the poison ship.
Quote from: jamaicancastle on July 11, 2018, 11:10:50 PM
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 11, 2018, 11:02:17 PM
I had a raider die of no particular reason.
No blood loss, no vital organ destroyed, no limb lost, nothing.
That's quite common. Whenever a non-player-faction pawn is downed, there's a chance - I think it used to be 2/3, and is now 4/5 - that they'll just die. So your raider racked up injuries, went into pain shock, and the grim reaper rolled dem bones.
Is there any way a better system could be developed, for this? What about those that take one hit and drop (wimps) and ROLL TO DIE? Just saw it this week. He literally took one, non-lethal hit (not even bleeding.) I stared at his health records and just scratched my head. Had to shrug and say, "Unlucky bastard didn't sacrifice to RNGesus."
Is there any way we, as the player, can have a more convincing experience in this regard? It really kills immersion. I'm not sure what the answer is but, sudden and random death from inexplicable, non-lethal wounds -- not just a few times for weaker, older pawns but over and over for every pawn just
Does Not Feel Good. Smacks (in the face) of Deus Ex Machina.
This cracks me up every single time i see it. This was definitely a funny and cool design decision for social system. Even though not as deep as those of Psychology mod.
(http://i104.fastpic.ru/big/2018/0712/8c/7c9c3f08294a20725458f1bc9701338c.jpg)
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 12, 2018, 11:47:43 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.
Isn't this just part of the game? Isn't this normal? If one starts the game with a poor research pawn -- one knows what they're getting themself into. Let's not cheapen the game so that someone can have awesome hunting, building, growing, etc. and then also have decent research, even though other priorities were made -- because the game helped you do it. Can we avoid adding "crutches" to the game?
Cheapen the game, adding crutches? I see it quite the opposite when steps are taken to reduce RNG progression and outcome. When results are more in your hands and you have more decisions to make. Pawns skills should come in handy yes, but having a highly skilled shouldn't skyrocket your progression or put you in situations you have hardly any control over when you don't have a decent one.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 04:25:47 AM
Added a subtle research speed factor to difficulty settings.
Brilliant. ;D
Quote from: JohnLG on July 12, 2018, 06:24:21 AM
Here's an annoying little bug - If a pawn moves because you ordered it to attack an enemy, you can't order other pawns to move to the tile they were previously occupying until their target is dead or they start moving toward another movement (but not attack) order. Here (https://imgur.com/yTmkphz)'s a little picture just in case - Nonna is considered to be occupying the red carpet even though she's been ordered to attack Grey and will never return there on her own.
I've also run into this, regularly, during play in 1.0. Just as JohnLG states.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 06:49:42 AM
Yeah, immunity was broken. Sorry. I'm pushing a quick fix now. Update in 10 minutes or so.
Something seems broken with it still, but I just had a pawn die of infection who was bandaged up right away and beating the infection before the infection even hit 100%
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: vzoxz0 on July 12, 2018, 10:35:49 AM
Huge annoyance: Time slows to 1x for the entire duration of a raid or similar event. That is not how it works in 18b -- it will eventually speed back up after a brief window.
Noticed this last night. Was waiting for the faster speed to kick in, during a fire-fight and it never happened. These guys must have shot passed each other for 5 minutes. I didn't have other options and had better cover but, lower firing skill. Just had to sit and watch D:
Quote from: Madman666 on July 12, 2018, 11:33:51 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 12, 2018, 11:17:49 AM
I don't even blame you, it honestly felt like a very sudden game ender. I absolutely crushed the last attack (Siege with 2 doomsday rockets ~ 20 people - baited the rockets with excellent shield belts) simply by running over the top of them with melee weapons vs guns.
It was completely one sided. Can't say the same about that infestation, sheesh.
Edit: Here's the wounds - Bloody lucky overall https://imgur.com/a/2y3OvyU
You know, while admire you overcoming this crazyness, i really think this isn't how it should be on hard and maybe not even on extreme. Its weird that infestations actually scale with wealth in the first place (at least with raiders its justified by them knowing you have a lot of crap hoarded, so more will join to try and steal it), but ok, let them scale. But not to this extent. Whats this? Like... 20 friggin hives? Its at the level of that Arachnid mod, that sent game-ending waves at you. Yeah i know that with armor rework you can survive lots of hurt coming your way, but thats still excessive. Heaps excessive.
Your larger, more populated, more mechanized base is making that much more noise, vibrations, and heat. Of course more and bigger hives would be attracted.
Also, I'd just like to set forth a concern about players, admittedly not playing on Extreme, trying to set the standard for and provide opinions on what it is. Let us crazy people have our pinnacle :(
Quote from: Madman666 on July 12, 2018, 11:49:04 AM
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 12, 2018, 11:41:20 AM
I've long thought that Intellectuals could play the role of "Psychologist / Therapist" to help prevent or cure Mental Breaks. To help clear up Rivalries or reduce insults against certain colonists. This could require certain furniture to accomplish and the "therapy" could require maintenance, like animal training does. I'd think of these "therapies" like status buffs that only serve to counter the indicated "problem." Just a thought. Any others on this? Could get way cool.
Sounds like a thing that a pawn with a real good Social skill would be good at, not an Intellectual.
And our greatest socialites, in high school, were immediately qualified to give therapy. ::)
Quote from: Madman666 on July 12, 2018, 12:04:40 PM
This cracks me up every single time i see it. This was definitely a funny and cool design decision for social system. Even though not as deep as those of Psychology mod.
(http://i104.fastpic.ru/big/2018/0712/8c/7c9c3f08294a20725458f1bc9701338c.jpg)
Yes! More of this stuff, please :)
Not sure if i am at the right place for this, but i got raided by sappers , two of them threw grenades on close range, meaning while my pawns attacked on melee, they still threw grenades on them, killing both, shouldn't grenade have a minimal range like weapons ?
Quote from: Jibbles on July 12, 2018, 12:31:41 PM
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 12, 2018, 11:47:43 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 11, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
Nerf hits early game hard. The stack of slower experience gain and slower research mean that without a pawn with very good initial stats that you can dedicate to research you are very screwed.
Isn't this just part of the game? Isn't this normal? If one starts the game with a poor research pawn -- one knows what they're getting themself into. Let's not cheapen the game so that someone can have awesome hunting, building, growing, etc. and then also have decent research, even though other priorities were made -- because the game helped you do it. Can we avoid adding "crutches" to the game?
Cheapen the game, adding crutches? I see it quite the opposite when steps are taken to reduce RNG progression and outcome. When results are more in your hands and you have more decisions to make. Pawns skills should come in handy yes, but having a highly skilled shouldn't skyrocket your progression or put you in situations you have hardly any control over when you don't have a decent one.
I believe you've seen this a different way than I was suggesting. I suggested that, regardless of situation (chosen or random,) there should be real consequences for not having a capable researcher. That simple.
Quote from: NagashUD on July 12, 2018, 01:02:08 PM
Not sure if i am at the right place for this, but i got raided by sappers , two of them threw grenades on close range, meaning while my pawns attacked on melee, they still threw grenades on them, killing both, shouldn't grenade have a minimal range like weapons ?
Also had this happen, a couple of days ago, and the grenadier even hit himself ... ::)
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 12, 2018, 01:06:08 PM
Quote from: NagashUD on July 12, 2018, 01:02:08 PM
Not sure if i am at the right place for this, but i got raided by sappers , two of them threw grenades on close range, meaning while my pawns attacked on melee, they still threw grenades on them, killing both, shouldn't grenade have a minimal range like weapons ?
Also had this happen, a couple of days ago, and the grenadier even hit himself ... ::)
They both killed themself ... :/ and killed my melee pawns as well ... damn terrorists !!!
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
I'd like to push back against this a little.
I've been playing since A12, and have reloaded every time a pawn dies. It's how I play the game, and removing the ability would really dampen my enthusiasm. (I know you're not saying you'd make permadeath only, but...)
Basically, I enjoy Rimworld as a colony simulator. I usually play with 4-6 pawn colonies, lasting years and growing greatly attached to my few lonely friends in the wilderness. When they enter a relationship, it makes me very happy. When someone gets a disease, I sit on the edge of my seat. It's a story simulator, but it's one that doesn't contain death. The interest is in colony building and crisis management, relationships, wandering the world, etc.
Generally I'll mod in an "easy" raid level and an "extreme" everything else difficulty. I like higher difficulties because of the mood penalties, price reductions and lower crop yields, but am not interested in the combat mechanics beyond a very limited level.
Just wanted to add a perspective. I tend to quickly lose interest in games that ask me to invest emotionally in the characters and then force losses on me. Thanks for an amazing game, I love playing it in this terrible save-scumming way, and I very much look forward to 1.0 reaching a non-Steam audience (me). :)
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Tynan, I respect you as a dev, but making permadeath mandatory would be a
terrible idea.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
The game is also designed in a way that it throws you into
completely unfair scenarios from time to time. This change feels totally pointless, but whatever spins your merry-go-round.
I savescum A LOT. But I won't run from a challenge (usually, sometimes I forget to save when a threat arrives). I like to play them out in different ways. Sometimes I scum even after a flawless victory to see 'ok but what if I did THIS instead' Its not viable to practice late game scenarios, particularly from rare events, when it takes so very long to get there, and one misstep means the whole thing falls over.
And sometimes I savescum cuz a lancer that drops in the middle of my colony obliterates the spine of my well armored, fairly well covered, and vital colonist on the first shot. I know the game is capable of unfair BS, but its ok because so am I :)
Also sometimes the idiocy of my pawns astounds me. Like when they consistently take the route through the bug cave instead of walking 3 blocks around it. I rewind then to hold their hand because WHY ARE YOU WALKING INTO GIANT BUGS FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME?!
I think he just meant permadeath would be checked by default, so new players would be encouraged to try it. So, instead of making permadeath players check a box, non-permadeath have to uncheck a box. Not exactly a monumental change.
In any case, so, looks like either I'm getting insanely lucky or deadfalls are just wrecking centipedes morseso than b18 :D Injuries on the last few below. Might actually just be luck, that is a crazy amount of head hits.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
LoL yeah, that's a change people definitely wont screech about.
But anyway people need to calm down, he was probably joking.
I'm for making permadeath default and let players enable saving if they want to. BTW, it is possible to save scum even on permadeath - just Alt-F4, relaunch the game and load the last save.
I enjoy save scumming as well. I agree with the sentiments that it should remain optional.
Im not against hardcore mode and can see how some might enjoy it, but I don't gain joy from watch my pawns die. Im far more interested in the stories they tell while alive.
I save scum in 1.0 because it's under development and I never know what's going to happen. For example, I stopped last night after a 3 hive infestation spawned 3 large, 3 medium and 6 little guys in my 6 tribal pawn base. Even my tough, elephant tusk wielding melee couldn't block that door for long, with 2 scavenged shotguns, a machine pistol, and a meatshield elephant and wolf.
I savescum in B18 and prior because death spirals are easy to start, with every pawn being basically critical below a count of 6.
Don't have a +10 doctor with 90%+ manipulation, clean room, and actual medicine? Pawns WILL die of plague or infections. (I have seen the infections toned down a bit, but 100% bedrest was still mandatory without medicine as of build 1962.)
Don't have a +8 grower, to get that healroot started? See above (current colony struggle)
Encounter a Lancer? Someone is losing a limb or the top of their head, 4 battles out of 5, even though they have good+, 50% armor and cover from sandbags+walls.
I savescum because failure takes 30 seconds, but success takes hours. A tribal I really wanted shows up, and dies 3 times before I can capture her. Her recruit difficulty is 57%, my warden's recruit chance is 42%, and it still takes a week of them talking.
I savescum because I don't want to play the first week with a new colony OVER and OVER and OVER when I mess up. It's interesting for variety and finding new fail states, but I'm a colony manager at heart.
Quote from: Greep on July 12, 2018, 01:45:18 PM
I think he just meant permadeath would be checked by default, so new players would be encouraged to try it. So, instead of making permadeath players check a box, non-permadeath have to uncheck a box. Not exactly a monumental change.
That's exactly what he wrote :
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Other thing : when having stockpile zone selected, clicking 'Expand Zone' and creating new zone (that does not merge with existing, selected one) i was kinda expecting that new zone would have the same settings.
The whole thing about save scumming. I actually use it as a learning tool. Since I may understand the mechanics of 90% of the game but how to deal with a psychic ship during a plaque is very tricky(I actually discovered a use for luciferum in that playthrough). Also with the game changing every day with unstable mode it helps to relearn things you previously assumed you knew like the increase to the chased refugee quest. Although I do agree on a stable server there really shouldn't be any other way to play.
I would go a step further in the final build to have permadeath removed as a option tick and instead be placed in the settings menu with a warning attached. Leaving it right in our face makes it always tempting to pick it. Also putting it in the settings will leave it auto enabled for players that can't stand the idea of loss and gain real emotional attachment to their pawns/pets. Some people just prefer a colony that never ends.
**** From actual game experience below ****
Speaking of the mention of luciferum. That is a drug that I bet if you could pull statistics from the game would see 99% + of all saved games never use this item. Maybe toning down the first use to an extreme hangover that forces them to rest in bed. Second use to hangover + withdrawal mood debuff then third hits the current effect. With each use maybe increasing the potential buff to a cap of the drug. Gives the team of the super drugged out juiced warrior that is eventually doomed story to your game.
As luci stands atm it is kind of a waste of space in the game. Only time I've seen it used is when you know you are up against odds that will cause a pretty injured pawn to be dead anyway so you get that last glorious battle out of them or a modded experience. I've tried dozens of runs on 1.0 thinking of ways I could use it and barely found one from a save scum.
Opinions from more dedicated players may vary, but I will argue that this game is not particularly well suited for casual iron man play.
a) it's incredibly time consuming already, it takes hours to make even moderate progress
b) it's easy to completely wipe out your colony and have to start over if you make one small mistake, or have to figure out a mechanic on the fly. Like, fighting mechanoids can easily turn into a wipe if you build your cover too close to the ship and trigger them early. Or any caravan mission can turn into a wipe if you're not clear on what you're getting into.
c) Some units may be disposable in the mid game, but this is not really true in the early game, losing one out of three to four pawns can be an immense setback, especially if it has a key role.
Saving too much can ruin the fun, sure. But I already end up restarting a lot and playing the early game over and over, it would be much worse with iron man.
Quote from: Greep on July 12, 2018, 01:45:18 PM
In any case, so, looks like either I'm getting insanely lucky or deadfalls are just wrecking centipedes morseso than b18 :D Injuries on the last few:
That's because deadfall traps are designed to hit the head and torso. Not sure if it's 100% but there's definitely a massive bias towards head/torso. I had a quick skim through the defs to find code on them but couldn't find anything that gave me any useful numbers.
As far as I know centipede "Heads" only consist of their sight sensors and brains so there's a fairly large chance to disable them with deadfall traps.
Of course most mech encounters lead with Scythers and then Lancers - effectively disabling traps before centipedes get to them so it's not particularly common for centipedes to walk over large blobs of traps.
Since I don't think that deadfall traps have an AP value (But I know they do sharp damage) there's an 80% chance that they'll be affected by armor - so 40% of all deadfall traps will plink harmlessly off them, 40% will be mitigated by 50%, and 20% will do full damage.
In B18 the % based mitigation system meant that while traps were effective (and still mostly hit the head) there was no chance of a lucky hit.
Technically a single steel deadfall trap could dome a centipede and destroy its brain outright as far as I know.
If people don't like having to remember to turn on permadeath, then put an option in settings to turn it on by default.
Off by default is fine with me as I will never enable it. Just like I will never "permanently disable dev mode".
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
One problem I had with permadeath was not being able to continue a game due to a corrupted save. I forget whether my computer crashed or had a power outage, but the xml file was cut off at some point. I always play with it off now (on other games too) to avoid this.
Grrr.. So apparently caves are actually death traps just waiting to happen. I noticed that apparently what looked like complete overhead mountain was actually thin rock roofs, and decided to remove roofs on my whole area to see what was up.
So now I'll have to probably have to deal with drop pods and infestations making the whole inside mountains kinda pointless.
I guess it's not completely over: that's the extent of the disaster area, so I can maybe trap it with IEDs and wall it off.
Aaaaarg, and dudes keep eating my simple meals meant for the refinery rather than the fine meals. Muh optimizations noooo.
[attachment deleted due to age]
On the topic of weapon reload and windup / winddown times.
The winddown times are ridiculous. I'm going to fully agree with every person talking about the "glue" effect. Suicidal melee units just ruin combat, now. They run in and everyone gets "stuck" in there. I had two short bows firing on a single enemy raider and even with the stagger they could barely get two shots in. Then, with what seemed like a decent distance between then, I tried to move one ... Wow. Just, Wow. I was watching that damn circle for way too long. What's the pawn doing? Shouldering the bow and then counting his arrows? This makes no sense and I don't believe it serves the balance.
This may have been a bit of an overboard nerf. It may be a good idea to review the impact this has.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 12, 2018, 12:53:14 PM
Your larger, more populated, more mechanized base is making that much more noise, vibrations, and heat. Of course more and bigger hives would be attracted.
Also, I'd just like to set forth a concern about players, admittedly not playing on Extreme, trying to set the standard for and provide opinions on what it is. Let us crazy people have our pinnacle :(
Its still bs amount no matter how you look at it. Thats 400-500k wealth worth, not 175k. 70 bugs. And i ll mention once again, that it wasn't even extreme difficulty level, it was "hard". I don't play extreme masochistic levels, so feel free to make it however unfair and unbalanced you want - its there for that reason. But hard should be hard. Not crazy.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 12, 2018, 03:54:12 PM
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 12, 2018, 12:53:14 PM
Your larger, more populated, more mechanized base is making that much more noise, vibrations, and heat. Of course more and bigger hives would be attracted.
Also, I'd just like to set forth a concern about players, admittedly not playing on Extreme, trying to set the standard for and provide opinions on what it is. Let us crazy people have our pinnacle :(
Its still bs amount no matter how you look at it. Thats 400-500k wealth worth, not 175k. 70 bugs. And i ll mention once again, that it wasn't even extreme difficulty level, it was "hard". I don't play extreme masochistic levels, so feel free to make it however unfair and unbalanced you want - its there for that reason. But hard should be hard. Not crazy.
You may be ignoring the Ramp Up factor, which also can greatly affect the difficulty level of incidents. The longer you go without having any problems with incidents (such as colonist death), the higher the Ramp Up factor is. Balancing the Ramp Up factor is probably why Tynan asked people to post pictures of the Dev Mode graph of Ramp Up from actual gameplay.
Well rampup is reflective of all raids, not just infestations. If that infestation is the equivalent of a couple of centipedes, it's gamebreaking. haven't hit an infestation yet thankfully, but looks like I'll just be destroyed outright when it happens :o
Quote from: Tass237 on July 12, 2018, 03:59:49 PM
You may be ignoring the Ramp Up factor, which also can greatly affect the difficulty level of incidents. The longer you go without having any problems with incidents (such as colonist death), the higher the Ramp Up factor is. Balancing the Ramp Up factor is probably why Tynan asked people to post pictures of the Dev Mode graph of Ramp Up from actual gameplay.
In that case, I sure hope this will be rebalanced, because if that thing just punishes you for basically playing perfect without losing anyone, by making next bad event even more atrocious and more and more the longer you manage to play perfect - thats just silly. Your wealth raises - you suffer, you pull through those hardships without losing a guy - get ready to suffer even more. The logic of it is brilliant. Feels like the goal of the game now is to get rekt and come tell a story about it :(
Maybe kill your own colonists to keep the ramp up factor low?
Would be a good way to get rid of lackluster pawns or unwanted refugees...
e.. Seriously though, I like the logic of ramp-up. If the raiders failed to dent your colony on their last raid, they would certainly come with more power the next time (or just give up and leave you alone).
A game that makes you sacrifice someone just to get a discount on the next bad event is kind of broken.
I've played two year+ games in 1.0, one Crashlanded and the other Tribal. The latter started at v.1956 and I played it until yesterday. I am not a hardcore player by any means, but I have been playing since about A11 so have been involved in this process for awhile.
Difficulty
- I usually play Phoebe/Randy Rough, but reading through this thread I decided to back off a difficulty level in 1.0 for fear of the increase in difficulty.
- Overall I found it pretty slow and easy, so I'm going to go back to Rough and see how it treats me, but Randy felt more like Phoebe at the Medium difficulty. Raids are exceptionally small, diseases and sickness kind of a non-issue, resource management not really a problem (although I could see that changing in mid-late games)
Caravaning
- While it is worlds better (pun intended), it still feels obtuse. I'm not sure if the Forage per day contributes to Days of Food or if it's separate and on top of the food we pack. I'm not sure if I bring Hay or Kibble if the animals will prioritize eating it.
- I had a colonist wearing tribalwear die of Hypothermia while caravaning despite it not getting any colder since he left home, not having any temperature problem at home, and not getting any warnings. So some improvement to temperature warnings would be useful as it felt like it came out of nowhere.
- I saw a bug fix yesterday I think that might address this problem, but I had a single colonist with an Alpaca and a Muffalo go caravanning and the colonist froze to death. When the colonist died I got two notifications - one for caravan death and one for colonist death. The two animals essentially disappeared off the map, but then days later I got the same two notifications of caravan death and animal death for the Alpaca, and then again for the Muffalo some time later despite them no longer being available to me on the map. It would be great if a colonist could go and save the animals in this situation, or at the very least have the caravan death signify that the animals are abandoned, and not have those further notifications come up.
- I saw someone else suggest this, but I'd like either a little icon on each settlement or a list somewhere on the World Map of which settlements have offers on the table so that I can better keep track of my options.
- the planning mode is essential and good, but it would reduce clicks if you could just right click on the world map to set pins in order to calculate routes, since right clicking the map currently does nothing.
Other
- Hoopstone description says "A simple ancient game played with a stones..."
- Impressive and Very Impressive Barracks is still a negative moodlet, which I get is trying to encourage individual bedrooms, but seems a bit ridiculous.
- tree sowing time is waaaaaaay too long. I would trade a shorter sowing time for a longer growing time
- graves no longer have names, which takes away my own ability to properly mourn the loss of colonists, and takes away some story depth.
- I get that you're going for game balance, but misandry is asymmetrical to misogyny and I encourage you to consider its removal.
I had some other notes about combat but I think a lot's changed in the last few days so I'm going to start a new game and see how it feels. I know research was updated recently as well but generally speaking I agree with a lot of people on here that some of the more significant researches like electricity and microelectronics should take longer to obtain, but that some of the smaller ones would be best to stay where they were.
I tried to screenshot the ramp-up graph but it wasn't available in dev mode in my game for some reason. I attached wealth and info.
[attachment deleted due to age]
To be perfectly clear - I'd been crushing raids for the last ~60 days with little more than the occasional animal death. Shield belts are a
massive deal.
The system itself isn't just designed to ramp
up. It's supposed to be able to ramp
down as well. The idea being that the game can (hopefully) ramp things up to a crescendo.
A really tough and interesting fight where tough decisions had to be made and things were lost in the process.
And then wind down a bit to give the player some breathing room.
I genuinely think it's a pretty good idea - The more accurately the game can analyze how well you're doing the better it can provide interesting experiences. Wealth and time aren't sufficient.
And that infestation was interesting! It was you know.. 93% of what my colony could've possibly taken on and a tiny bit of rng either way could've been the end of me but it was at the very least interesting.
The good news is that the system can be changed fairly trivially. Tweaking a few values here and there is fairly easy. If there's lots of evidence that infestations are scaling too hard? Boom, one dial and it's changed.
Additionally keep in mind that was the 2nd highest difficulty. Re-read the description if you want a reminder of what that's supposed to mean.
I only wish that I'd started the colony post-patch so I could provide a ramp-up graph :'(.
The only "problem" is that I've grown strangely attached to a colony that just barely fought off a ravening horde of insect invaders.
The system works :P
Moreover there's no point speculating here in the forum. Go play the game and report back your experiences. If infestations suddenly wipe out your colony then that's useful information. Anything else is just
theorycrafting.
Edit:
Quote
I get that you're going for game balance, but misandry is asymmetrical to misogyny and I encourage you to consider its removal.
Jesus christ.. talk about things likely to derail a thread and apparently they jump out of the woodwork.
Putting on my brown-trousers for that one.
So its designed to ramp up indefinitely, until it finally manages to kill\maim someone or downs half the colony. Then it sees - oh, i finally got you, here some time for you to recover, before i go in for the kill again. Funzies. I hope i ll be able to kill this thing for my run.
And FYI i am already playing, so no need telling me to go play.
I think I've somehow failed to accurately communicate the nature of the system and its implications.
The system isn't sentient and malicious. It's not trying to murder you or make you have less fun.
Let me frame it this way - Infested Planet uses a Malicious Mutation system to try and vary up the player's gameplay. Basically if the system sees a player using a particular tactic it picks from a list of modifiers designed to counter that tactic. Some mutations are mutually exclusive, and there's a maximum that can be applied at any given time.
The goal is to prevent the player from sticking with one tactic throughout the entire game.
This system works.
However it only works because it's surprisingly good at analyzing player strategy. It makes surprisingly intelligent and effective decisions that can really throw a wrench in the works.
If that system didn't do a good job of collecting data it would be pointless.
It would constantly make ridiculous and unintelligent decisions because it can only a very small set of decisions.
Rimworld isn't really like that - The system can do lots of different things to affect player gameplay. Some more noticeable than others.
Theoretically that system can do anything - make raids larger, reduce the rewards from quests, make trading less efficient, hell, even make it rain less often when large fires are occurring.
There are a bunch of subtle ways to increase difficulty in rimworld that aren't plugged directly into raid size. Raid size is just the most noticeable and volatile.
The system can be changed to create giant moments of extreme tension or simply ebbs and flows in difficulty.
Something that I happen to know you already like as you play Randy.
It doesn't have to ramp up raids until you're crushed, and I'd be amazed if that was the intention.
More data = More appropriate decisions = more player enjoyment.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
I agree with this from a design perspective, maybe call it something other than "permadeath" or "iron man," both of which make it sound like uber hard mode rather than "the baseline game presented without the option of cheating."
If ramp up works this way I dislike it. It's like the wealth mechanic's bad side. Good quality, undamaged equipment = bad for you, shouldn't be the case, but it is. Luxury items and making your pawns happy -> also bad for you (in terms of raid strength).
My actual experience with the system is that it doesn't make things THAT much harder. However I went from very hard to extreme so I'm really missing a baseline here.
If this system is more meant to make recovering easier, because it's main purpose is to scale down threats after you suffered losses (material, wealth or pawns) then it's a completely different story.
Also here is my ramp up graph. I haven't lost a pawn, but one got a bad brain injury (one hit by one elephant, and she was wearing an excellent advanced helmet... thanks RNG) and she is a vegetable.
(https://i.imgur.com/mBl6pMP.png)
Guys, there has always been a ramp up factor. In b18 it didn't scale back very significantly with deaths. I think Tynan has just implemented the graph to fine tune the mechanics and gather more data.
Quote from: Boboid on July 12, 2018, 05:03:21 PM
...
Its fine if it is how you describe it, but if its just plain threat point increase in case previous bad event didn't manage to down\maim anyone or do damage to your wealth (wreck furniture, steal stuff etc), then its just awful. I really hope this isn't how this system works.
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on July 12, 2018, 05:13:48 PM
Guys, there has always been a ramp up factor. In b18 it didn't scale back very significantly with deaths. I think Tynan has just implemented the graph to fine tune the mechanics and gather more data.
If it wasn't ramp up factor, that multiplied Boboid's infestation hive count by 4, then its just unbalanced threat generation.
There was a note a while back that infestations were made hardcore in either the last or second to last patch. Fortunately, still haven't run into them.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 12, 2018, 05:17:04 PM
If it wasn't ramp up factor, that multiplied Boboid's infestation hive count by 4, then its just unbalanced threat generation.
Not necessarily, it might just be all the balance changes Tynan did.
I faced a psychic ship (Randy Extreme) pretty early, crashed right next to my colony, ramped up to medium drone pretty fast and I had huge problems with it. I actually had to try several times. Unfortunately the ship spawned different enemies each time so eventually I just lucked out and won by RNG which I absolutely hate.
The first two times it was a mix of scythers and lancers with one or two centipedes. And I'm talking like 8 scythers/lancers. Against 5 colonists, without armor, just pump shotguns. It was pretty brutal.
Third time I got lancers and centipedes with I think 2 scythers only, that was WAY easier.
Maybe that's an interesting note for Tynan: The mechanoids supplement each other well. Scythers are too durable IMO, centipedes should be the "tank" unit. My problem is facing a composition in the style of 1:1:2 (centipedes:lancers:scythers) - scythers melee your guys, reducing their DPS a ton, while also slashing them to pieces, they are too numerous and tanky to take them out quicky. Meanwhile lancers might murder someone if RNG is against you and centipedes make sure you can't run away or are CCed by fire.
Quote from: Boboid on July 12, 2018, 04:27:58 PM
Quote
I get that you're going for game balance, but misandry is asymmetrical to misogyny and I encourage you to consider its removal.
Jesus christ.. talk about things likely to derail a thread and apparently they jump out of the woodwork.
Putting on my brown-trousers for that one.
Yeah I should have probably posted that elsewhere, but it was in my notes. Maybe I should clarify that I think it's best not to respond to this at all in this thread and hopefully everyone can just leave it be.
Yep, there was a note about them couple patches ago.
- Infestations are a bit tougher.
Was that "a bit"? 70 bugs? I hope i won't ever see "a lot" then.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Everybody else has weighed in on this so let me tell my story.
The very first time I played, I turned permadeath on, thinking I was turning it off. It seemed so obvious to me that this game would have permadeath on by default that I didn't even pay attention to the red x or green check.
Quote from: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:11:23 PM
-Insects will no longer attack the colony when harmed by raiders
This is not working.
Remember the video i posted hours ago about insects being overpowered and heavily resistant to a doomsday rocket launcher?
Well, their population has triplicated since i cant get rid of them.
As soon as some raiders attacked them they charged toward my base. The ones who did where already at the door btw. They had de-aggroed a few minutes ago.
Is eye damage back to always causing permanent scarring or am I going mad/experiencing bad luck?
8 eye injuries in a row have scarred instantly which has me nervous. It's nice to be able to replace eyes in the long term but until you're able to manufacture bionics it's a pretty devastating injury.
Just finish an infestation and everyone's talking about bugs. It was absolutely absurd for my colony power. We're talking about three dozen megaspiders that all aggro instantly if you tag a hive or any of the bugs as wel as the little guys that eat shots and attention. I had 8 people present, 12 total.
I had three >10 good shooters, two >5 bad shooters with incin and minigun, and three power armor >10 melee fighters, three mini turrets, one sniper turret. I got wrecked repeatedly. I almost never reload but this was colony ending for five attempts. I tried scattering IEDs, I tried kiting like old manhunter packs, I tried the deathball.
In the end I was only able to beat them because they dug to the outside allowing me to split the swarm, and because a lucky trader came in to tank half of the split. There is absolutely zero chance I could have solved that with combat without cheese. It would have been very narrowly manageable if aggro wasn't so instant and absolute with the bugs. It also would have been manageable with less bugs
Also I have so much uranium. Sniper turrets reloading with uranium is a relief for me.
Quote from: Boboid on July 12, 2018, 06:26:23 PM
Is eye damage back to always causing permanent scarring or am I going mad/experiencing bad luck?
8 eye injuries in a row have scarred instantly which has me nervous. It's nice to be able to replace eyes in the long term but until you're able to manufacture bionics it's a pretty devastating injury.
As far as I know cuts always cause injury but bruises shouldn't
I have a pawn with the slothful trait but I found it doesn't really impact the story much, I barely notice that hes doing things a bit slower. I think it would be more flavourful if it were possible for them to have a "loafing around" mental break, symbolised by a loaf of bread above their head.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Savescumming is cheesy, but here it feels entirely appropriate. The game is filled by cheesy ways to enforce unrecoverable losses. Abyssmally nerfed ranged weapons, enforced close combat, infinite and hugely (you'vew got a raid with 10 pawns for each of yours? you've got off easily) overwhelming enemy forces who don't hesitate to use kamikaze tactics and don't care about losses and friendly fire (hinder you with melee and throw grenades sacrificing five their pawns to kill one yours? sure! they can always spawn more!), enemies designed to bypass any strategical ways to defend (you build defences? we'll spawn a horde of enemies behind them!), and everpresent malevolent RNGesus. The game is not playing fair with us, why would we play fair with it? There are games where losing is part of the fun, and Rimworld is not one of them.
Yeesh, stop using a doomsday rocket when a pocket hammer will do for balance xD Just did a refugee raid after the patch which buffed them. Previous raids were a few centipedes and I think 15 tribals. Got this:
But don't worry, these friendlies will help ::) ::) ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: rdshen on July 12, 2018, 06:29:25 PM
I had three >10 good shooters, two >5 bad shooters with incin and minigun, and three power armor >10 melee fighters, three mini turrets, one sniper turret. I got wrecked repeatedly. I almost never reload but this was colony ending for five attempts. I tried scattering IEDs, I tried kiting like old manhunter packs, I tried the deathball.
Thats it. I am sticking wooden wall into every single nook and cranny where those horrors can spawn. Screw space and architecture aesthetics. Safety is more important.
Quote from: Greep on July 12, 2018, 06:59:58 PM
Yeesh, stop using a doomsday rocket when a pocket hammer will do for balance xD Just did a refugee raid after the patch which buffed them. Previous raids were a few centipedes and I think 15 tribals. Got this:
Wtf?! What kind of difficulty are you playing? Suicidal?
The ramp up factor actually makes perfect sense for game design to me. It is probably a mechanic that the game maker is better off keeping secret since people are upset to know the secrets. In b18 I usually quit the game when I hit a certain wealth threshold because I knew I was basically unstoppable.
In 1.0 although I've never played a game that had as many days as the b18 playthroughs. My runs have always ended from death besides the 1 questline finish. I hate that there is only one way to win but I bet that is such a massive project it is DLC worthy. As it is designed now you are guaranteed to have it become more challenging as you play incentivizing you to ditch your base and all its wealth to go and complete the quests to end the story before you ramp up too much.
Alternative is you can always keep lowering the difficulty as you play to get that infinite game.
Luckily, deadfalls still pretty much wreck everything non-sapper/ship/etc 8) I would definitely be dead outside of the mountains. So, just a friendly warning to anyone wanting to pick up a refugee being chased.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Just wait until you get your cozy mountains infested, lol
I kinda hope its a ridiculous nightmare i am having, because i've had too much beer with friends today. I will get up tomorrow and it will be gone. Hm. Thats rite.
Yeah, I'm getting a popcorn bag ready for that one. And thinking of new colony names.
Edit: Lol. jinx. Not as bad as I was expecting, though. Randy is probably not the best to base balance decisions on, though, at least not with a sample size of 1.
[attachment deleted due to age]
How many hives in total did you get? :)
Just 10 surprisingly. Wealth is ~105k though.
Ten hives for 12 people is harsh. What was the difficulty? Hard?
Well that was funny, just some stragglers left :D
Love the dude just smoking weed in a binge throughout the entire thing. I have no idea how he's completely unhurt
Edit: nah this is extreme
[attachment deleted due to age]
Maybe it was the ramp up thing for Boboid. He did have ~175k wealth, not 105k, but still.
Playing in a jungle, I noticed that the panther that had been worrying me died to an infection (see screenshot). This occurred 27 days into the game. The infection rate for animals is perhaps too high? Also, those tortoises are really badass. I've seen them wound predators several times and one took off the nose of my colonist. Maybe the shell is a lure...
Feedback regarding the notification on colonist hunting: THANK YOU for this. This had been my #1 annoyance in Rimworld. The notification saved my colonist (barely) from a panther attack.
The change where you don't see the hunger level of the animals also adds tension to the game. Seeing a panther circles around my naked colonist in day 1 certainly makes the jungle feel like more intimidating.
[attachment deleted due to age]
So I'm not sure if this is intended or what, but here it goes:
As screenshot shows, colonist took a stab to the chest, and their flak vest downgraded it to a crush, as the description for sharp armor says.
Yet, it still bleeds. I'm not sure if this is just because it's a hit to lungs or if it only actually changes in name only? Seems to defeat the point of converting the sharp to a blunt impact if it still bleeds.
I've seen a bruise caused from gunshot before but I honestly can't tell you if it bled or not because it was after it got patched up that I noticed.
edit: I just noticed that other bruise to the chest caused by the knife. Kind of confusing as when I mouse over I only get the "X punched Y" there. Going to the log shows colonist only took 2 hits: one from fist, one stab from knife, so I may ahve answered my own question. Still seems slightly odd.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I've had instances where local wildlife was the target of the plague event as well as one of my dogs. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be intentional or not. That was the patch prior to the most recent one I downloaded before booting up again this evening.
Quote from: MoronicCinamun on July 12, 2018, 08:05:21 PM
So I'm not sure if this is intended or what, but here it goes:
As screenshot shows, colonist took a stab to the chest, and their flak vest downgraded it to a crush, as the description for sharp armor says.
Yet, it still bleeds. I'm not sure if this is just because it's a hit to lungs or if it only actually changes in name only? Seems to defeat the point of converting the sharp to a blunt impact if it still bleeds.
I've seen a bruise caused from gunshot before but I honestly can't tell you if it bled or not because it was after it got patched up that I noticed.
I'm pretty sure it's intentional for that to work like that. Basically any internal injury would cause bleeding. The bruise on the outside means bleeding on the inside anyways. I've never really understood how "internal damage" happens when you got shot. Like, you can take a full miniguns burst and not hit any internal organs, but you get bit by a squirrel once and you get brain damage.
Quote from: Admiral Obvious on July 12, 2018, 08:10:37 PM
Quote from: MoronicCinamun on July 12, 2018, 08:05:21 PM
So I'm not sure if this is intended or what, but here it goes:
As screenshot shows, colonist took a stab to the chest, and their flak vest downgraded it to a crush, as the description for sharp armor says.
Yet, it still bleeds. I'm not sure if this is just because it's a hit to lungs or if it only actually changes in name only? Seems to defeat the point of converting the sharp to a blunt impact if it still bleeds.
I've seen a bruise caused from gunshot before but I honestly can't tell you if it bled or not because it was after it got patched up that I noticed.
I'm pretty sure it's intentional for that to work like that. Basically any internal injury would cause bleeding. The bruise on the outside means bleeding on the inside anyways. I've never really understood how "internal damage" happens when you got shot. Like, you can take a full miniguns burst and not hit any internal organs, but you get bit by a squirrel once and you get brain damage.
(http://www.culttvmanshop.com/assets/images/Moebius/mars/moebmarsattacks02.jpg)
I'm getting a colonist died debuf when the colonist was captured.
Quote from: Greep on July 12, 2018, 07:12:06 PM
Luckily, deadfalls still pretty much wreck everything non-sapper/ship/etc 8) I would definitely be dead outside of the mountains. So, just a friendly warning to anyone wanting to pick up a refugee being chased.
That reminds me, I had a chased refugee with in the first 20 days and (luckily) only one enemy spawned, but he had a bionic eye and an autopistol! I wish I would have screenshot it...but yeah, the scaling still seems a bit extreme compared to normal raids.
It was a NB, Some Challenge(Medium?) game so my wealth and point scaling should have been trivial
Hi, first post. Here's my experience playing naked brutality on cass expert:
Most of my playtime in Rimworld is using a naked start with nothing scenario (although, as tribal and with a huskie), so it's cool that it's now an official mode. It's nice being able to build beds day 1! I've noticed I've been having a lot more success on 1.0. Most of my colonies will, without loading autosaves if something bad happens, make it to the unkillable stage and I generally only lose now if I misplay hard or get the plague. Other than getting the plague in boreal forest 25% of the time, I feel like this version of Rimworld is actually pretty easy. I would want expert to be harder, honestly. I'm a pro gamer 8), so I assume expert is targeted towards me. I want more challenge! And less plague, at least for the first year on this mode.
This is my most recent playthrough that just ended. I made it over a year. I'm restarting because my starting colonist got headshot due to my lazy micro. I play on boreal forest 20/60 growing season 60-80% of the time and generally don't research anything the first year. At the time of this screenshot, I only have like smithing and microelectronics researched and haven't smithed anything. Generally, my strategy is to focus on food, housing, establishing good vibes and leveling up medicine on my starting pawn with prisoners. Then I build defenses. By the time I start researching anything, it's well into mid-late game and my colony is basically unkillable short of an unlucky drop pod of brawling maniacs. Having stonecutting and beds in this mode already make research a luxury, you can always find good weapons on raiders. Durability for weapons someday? I think a gun only lasting for a year's worth of fights without maintenance would be cool. If durability was something you dealt with constantly, it would be annoying, but yearly for guns and more often for baseball bats would be fine.
In terms of ramp and difficulty: earlygame 1-person raids were fine and it got pretty hard with the first multi-person raids. After those, the bigger person raids were extremely easy. If the previous build on my custom naked-tribal-cass-expert scenario was 5/10 difficulty throughout, the game now is 4/10 early, 7/10 mid, 2/10 "later". From the time of my screenshot to the next year, the game plays itself in all of my previous longer runs.
Also, I defeated all most of the raids without any funnels or walls. Peeking doors from the middle fridge-stockpile building was generally good enough. I was extremely lazy with my defenses and still could just out-micro the enemy most fights to take hardly any damage. To fix this, I would add more enemies more quickly (especially on expert), maybe give them pet animals or an early sniper, or a higher ratio of melee enemies. Enemies should also be less interested in starting fires and more interested in beating down doors. If I'm 1v5 against 5 pirates with guns, I could micro a level 3 shooter with a short bow to make them flee 95% of the time because they will turn away to ignite stuff instead of beating down the wooden door.
Album of graphs: https://imgur.com/a/RBKblh1
Sidenote: the last screenshot is generally the kind of character I start this mode with, with neurotic and jealous as the extra traits and 75% on the leg and 80ish% on the hand. Significant damage to the leg is fun because they're slow at first but can still get a bionic leg later. I've seen Disnof and other good streamers rerolling a million times for way overpowered 50 year old 10-in-everything colonists with three great traits and still having a tough time, so I think the starter colonist can be anything and the game will be relatively difficult on expert every time. Maybe it should be slower to learn skills in general, because with fast learner I am tearing it up.
Summary: Expert is easier. Enemy AI makes them too easy to kill with door micro – they should bang on the doors more – and research is unnecessary on expert if you use raiders' weapons, because you already have the needed techs. Having a good cook is more important than a researcher until late-late game. If your map has trees, it's not necessary to ever research anything, to be honest.
Overall, I like all the changes. The gameplay is much better, and the game is noticeably improved by the update. Great job!
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Man, I want details!
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Context: Cassandra Extreme, Crashlanded, Temperate Forest, small hills (40/60 growing days), coast + small road + river.
Some stories from a recent colony (1961-1962), up to day ~50. Told in approximate order.
Deer BountyDeer no longer revenge! So much meat to be had!
I get it, it's winter, aka, I didn't realize I was playing FrostpunkEnd of the first fall in the colony -> Volanic Winter -> Cold Snap -> Solar Flare within the span of 3 days. I went from 2C to -20 C. I first walled off my bedrooms and built 4 heaters (that plus torches in the rooms kept everyone reasonably warm). Just as I got that set up and working I had to quick build 5 campfires so no one got frostbite while sleeping.
A Couple "Normal" RaidsI built a traditional killbox to see if they still worked at all. The answer is kinda, sometimes. Raiders split up and generally avoided coming into the killbox opening, preferring to beat on my slate walls. Fair amount of waiting to see where they would come through, taking position, and killing them. I doubt I'll build a killbox again without a true choke point on my map, though my defensive tactics remain about the same (pop in and out of doors, spread out, etc.. Nothing special.).
The new split raids are interesting, especially the ones that flee as separate groups. Normal defensive tactics seem to work fine on these raids.
All Melee Sapper Raid, aka, How I Learned to let go and Love the Chain ShotgunI got lucky and was able ti purchase a chain shotgun from a combat trader around day 20. Then, around day 35, I got my first sapper raid.
They sapped through a door in the side of my base, and came through one at a time (around 10 in the raid I think). I had positioned one guy with chain shotgun in a nearby door + several others furhter away with pistols and survival rifles shooting to get the impact deduff. Chain shotgun guy pretty much murdered the entire raid as they came through, took a pistol shot and slowed down, and slowly walked toward their death at the hands of a chain shotgun.
This is the chain shotgun I always wanted. Okay, yes, it felt OP for this specific raid in an incredibly satifying way, but nearly useless in all my other raids.
The Little Siege that Couldn'tI was able to pick off around half of the raiders in a siege using a couple guys with survivial rifles before anyone tried firing back. Raiders attacked the colony, and I killed one more to make them flee. Raid over before they built a mortar.
A Centipede Wrecked Me, aka, Two Shots to the HeartA poison ship landed near the bottom corner of the map, and me with no mortars and only two rifles. I built some close up fortificatoins (parallel lines of walls with small bunkers at the far end), put my short range guys there, hide my pacifist with a couple alpaca behind a hill. amd opened the ship up from distance with my two survival rifle pawns.
One melee scyther, one inferno cannon, one charge blaster. Melee scyther charged in, and I was able to kill it behind the bunkers with my two shotgun pawns. Meanwhile, the charge blaster centipede shot two colonists through the heart in about two seconds, with < 10% hit chance on both shots. It then proceeded to down one of my guys with a survival rifle, and my pacifist when I tried to rescue. Yeah, the inferno guy and melee scyther caused some chaos, but I was essentially wrecked by a single mech (vs my 7 colonists + 4 animals).
Game over.
I saved scummed this to try a different strategy against mechs: same fortifications, but this time I brought emp grenades (which I've never used before). This time I got 2 melee scythers, and 3-4 lancers. EMP grenades were basically useless until I was able to (with several injuries) kill the melee guys. Then EMPs kept the lancers out of commission until I was able to kill them. I'm not chalking this win up to my strategy -- I think I would have been killed again if there had been a charge blaster centipede this time around.
Thoughts
- Centipedes with charge blasters seem too strong. Long range, apparently amazing accuracy, and one shot colonists (with good clothes but no armor yet). I was able to "win" my save scum raid with twice the number of mechs b/c I didn't get one of these. They just feel insanely strong. Or maybe I just got really unlucky.
- It takes a long time to get to armor research
- Tree sowing seems totally useless (I tried it a previous colony, and the map had regrown trees by the time I was able to sow a 10x10 field of poplars with a lvl 10 grower)
Quote from: Jstank on July 12, 2018, 08:26:44 PM
I'm getting a colonist died debuf when the colonist was captured.
While still on screen?
If not, I think it is possible the colonist died after being captured and leaving the screen.
300+ hours of joy and I save-scummed all the way. Some see this as an invalid play-style but I personally don't see why someone would invest 10s of hours into building something that can get flushed down the drain on an unlucky diceroll. Of course I also don't understand gamblers, it strikes me as a similar phenomenon. Horses for courses and all that. I see no reason to change how the game is presented after all this time.
A raid. One raider insulted other's facial hair (both females). Social fight, one killed another. Not that I have anything against it...
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I just did a test spawning 10 megaspiders and shooting them with a doomsday launcher.
Only one was killed, not a single one downed besides taht one.
The one that died had no missing parts or vital organs destroyed, so it was one of those cases in which an enemy dies out of no displayed reason.
Luck, in other words.
Are they meant to be this strong? Test was done on Hard.
A few observations and remarks from a bit more play:
-Healroot is not killed by cold.
-It appears that tainted items cannot be used to fulfill trade quests. That's fine, but it would have been nice to have that in the quest description to save me the walk.
-Psychic ship pulses affect colony animals. I'm sure that's intended but I was caught by surprise when my two rhinos turned on me just after starting the mech fight. That was a colony wipe.
-Colony animals can have a mental break while already manhunter. Learned that after one of the pulsed rhinos killed its master and renewed manhunter.
-Manhunting colony animals will attack each other. After downing my four pawns, my two rhinos turned on each other, just to make the wipe extra-complete.
-After savescumming that wipe, the pulse happened again. This time I managed to flee to my base only to learn that manhunting colony animals can use colony doors. I think that should be disabled. Do they obey forbidden doors when manhunting? At least I survived that one.
-Wimps are very annoying in cold weather (well, even more-so). They will seek safe temperature just barely before reaching their pain threshold, rarely with enough time to actually save themselves.
-Once the handler is downed, released animals will disengage and insist on fleeing. It doesn't end well for them, since they tend to be tangled up in the middle of the enemy at that point and run in circles eating bullets.
I want to weigh in on the doors and temperatures thing. I have two heaters together that can't heat 3 smallish rooms at all. It's 7F inside them.
https://i.imgur.com/yrmLMRB.png
It definitely should not be 7F inside these bedrooms with two heaters at 74 and 76F
Looks like you've got vents leaking to outside, which pretty much instantly will drain your temp.
Also, infestation A.I.feels pretty inconsistent. The hives were spread out all over the place, and I was able to attack some the groups separately.
However, while the insects did not join in attacks when in rooms that were far apart, insects did all go aggro when one hive was attacked far away. Ended up surprising me and nearly blew up all of my cannons (got one, which blew up:()
Could just be something the player needs to learn, but it really caught me off guard.
Oh, that photo was badly timed. I will wait until the temp is down to 3F again and see if that happens again.
@tynan New ship graphics are absolutely great. I cannot show a ramp up graph on this map as I started it prior to it being available. Curious would you rather hear about the ship defense or see graphs of a new colony?
Also ... I noticed on caravan missions, when i clicked on the items the traders would purchase, all the drugs were listed except joints. I brought a few joints on the caravan and the traders did purchase them though they are not listed had I known for sure i would have brought a lot more to sell. Can we add them into the list?
Sorry if this was discussed before but trying to keep up tabs on this topic is difficult considering i can only test every few days.
but i am having alot of issues with taming in this build. i constantly get whole herds going ragemode while taming animals which do not give the prompt about taming risk. is this a flat risk now no mater the creature? this is on builder difficulty btw.
And this is why covering shooters with melee does not work. It is a friendly fire. Both pawns are in touch range. And it is not a first time.
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Some very confused sappers ;) Hyper intelligent sappers would just obsolete overhead mountain bases, so I'm not complaining, but looks like they just dig randomly if they can't find a plausible entrance.
Edit: actually they finally wise up and found a way to bypass the traps, chopped a dudes arm off.
Also, I have no idea what happened in the third pic. Dan, my level 17 cook, was crushed to death by falling rocks...
but... there's some obvious support just 4 tiles north.
First death due to a bug :'(
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Quote from: Greep on July 13, 2018, 02:27:12 AM
Also, I have no idea what happened in the third pic. Dan, my level 17 cook, was crushed to death by falling rocks...
but... there's some obvious support just 4 tiles north.
First death due to a bug :'(
It looks like there is no connecting roof between north columns and collapsed part.
Oh I see, that was subtle. It must have been a pillar further south that collapsed, and I forgot about that fact. Augh.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 13, 2018, 01:47:49 AM
And this is why covering shooters with melee does not work. It is a friendly fire. Both pawns are in touch range. And it is not a first time.
I had this happen to me as well :( It was a valid tactic before - a row of melees followed by row of shooters, this way holding a choke point could actually level the playing field. Now you can't even do that without risking making someone brain dead vegetable.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 13, 2018, 01:47:49 AM
And this is why covering shooters with melee does not work. It is a friendly fire. Both pawns are in touch range. And it is not a first time.
Within the no-intercept range, you can still get FF from missing when the wild shot goes into a square that your colonist is in. So use something that doesn't miss so much at touch range.
Just to drive home the point about friendly fire. Look at this nonsense.
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Sorry in advance for my heretical save scum. I want to try things more than I want to win right now. Patch 1960. I will try to track major loss events in the future.
Components seem much more plentiful through trade, but still expensive enough to cut into bionic, plasteel, and uranium purchases.
I still don't know what to make of the new turrets. There are times when a melee heavy raid stack up and destroy some, that's probably good. The biggest advantage that I've seen is vs mechs. Most of the time one of either advanced turret can beat 4ish Lancers and/or centipedes. That micro stuff is probably easy to test though. Over all, I still feel like the sniper turret is a bit of an oddball for the resources in and how it excels against high defense targets, but doesn't necessarily spend its time shooting those targets over some pleb with a steel knife. It does give options for play style though. Just my ramble.
Just establishing my kitchen on about day 160 after having one of my colonists make psychoid tea for years from like 6-12 cooking. Had a lucky artistic inspiration somewhere pre-60 days for a legendary 2600 beauty marble grand sculpture and colonists are too busy gawking to care about eating green paste.
Thanks to the makers and testers for all the hard work. The changes, feedback, and adjustments have been impressively rapid.
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The home of turret testing save scummers
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Quote from: giltirn on July 12, 2018, 11:15:58 PM
300+ hours of joy and I save-scummed all the way. Some see this as an invalid play-style but I personally don't see why someone would invest 10s of hours into building something that can get flushed down the drain on an unlucky diceroll. Of course I also don't understand gamblers, it strikes me as a similar phenomenon. Horses for courses and all that. I see no reason to change how the game is presented after all this time.
I think you're confusing gambling with risk management which is a common mistake people playing RNG heavy games like Rimworld or Xcom fall into.
Mostly it comes down to people taking data from a short-term or very narrow viewpoint where it seems like everything is chaotic and unfair.
On the other hand, managing your tactical and strategic goals based on broadly quantified and informed outcomes leads to better judgements which feed upon themselves creating a snowball effect into more favorable terms for your colony, squad and what have you.
TL;DR: I wouldn't dare to tell you how to play your game but try applying some lateral thinking and a broader perspective when dealing with issues in situations like these and you might find things to be more interesting instead of frustrating.
Going back to actual feedback: I think savescumming is a terrible way to play as well and it detracts from the experience since the game is clearly balanced around loss and struggle and this is what makes the stories stand out and be memorable.
Pushing it towards your vision by making the game permadeath by default with an option to opt out clarifies this message and in my opinion shouldn't even be contentious.
Hello, new poster here.
Playing the unstable builds for the past 2 weeks, on varying difficulties, never built the ship, here some of my observations:
1. Not sure if this is intended or a bug - I had two pawns with sickly trait, both of them died from plague, pretty fast mind you. The first one was in the beginning of the game, I had no hospital beds and just herbal medicine, but the other was yesterday - when I already had hospital beds and medicine... Is this planned for the sickly?
2. Animal re-spawn - when my colony gets to 13-16 pawns, full time hunting is a must (and the new wildlife tab is great!), but once I hunt down everything, they tend to re-spawn really slow - a hare a day. Is this normal?
3. Animal slaughter - sometimes when raided, both mechanoids and humans attack farm and pack animals first. Is this a new change, I don't remember this from beta? It can be both annoying and helpful, so not sure what to think about this... (I had 2 lancers hunting down my farm animals while the other 2 were attacking my base, so this could also be used as a tactic...)
4. Is the change about 2 caravans from opposite factions not entering the screen at the same time still on? I liked having them fight on my territory... Also, I remember from beta that members of one faction would start fighting between themselves (social fight?), haven't seen this in the unstable - was this also removed? I liked those events, you never knew what would happen...
5. Ancient danger: in 4 recent runs in the unstable I've had only one ancient danger per map, no matter the size (before I would get 2 or 3, depending on the map size). Also, in all of the runs I got only humans in caskets (not a single mechanoid to be seen).
6. I see that we now get notified when a predator starts hunting pawns (or tame animals) which is great. I've lost numerous dogs to that event because I'd get notified once the deed was done.
7. "Forbidden" - when a pawn collapses (due to illness, getting shot etc) and needs rescue, he drops everything he has on the floor and those things get marked as forbidden - meaning, pawns won't haul them. This is rather irritating because if you're not 100% sure where this pawn was when he collapsed, you can easily lose f.e. your only assault rifle (especially true on large maps). The other option is pausing the game and manually checking the entire map for the said rifle. Can the pawn belongings be marked as unforbidden?
Also, I've noticed that I tend to get a bit better pawns in random events (visitor, escape pod, refugee chased, even capturing raiders). Not everyone is a pyromaniac who can only do cloudwatching. Some are even very good. Is this just RNG or was it changed? Thankfully, no more colonies where 10/15 are idle most of the time because they cannot do skilled labor, dumb labor, violent and doctoring.
It would be nice to see in the caravan forming screen who has health issues - I've had caravans who had to carry dromedaries because of illness...
And on a funny (stupid?) side, I managed to kill a pawn I was supposed to save, because I right-clicked on him with a drafted pawn, thinking it would make the drafted one come near him...
Quote from: zizard on July 13, 2018, 03:14:22 AM
Within the no-intercept range, you can still get FF from missing when the wild shot goes into a square that your colonist is in. So use something that doesn't miss so much at touch range.
This wild shot nonsense just penalizes you for using tight formations for no obvious reason. Enemies still cover fire from behind melees just fine, since they obviously don't care about a destroyed lung or one more corpse for that matter. But for player it seems you either go full melee or if your front row was engaged - you have to cease fire immediately and let your shooters just stay there watching the rape unfold, waiting for occasional targets of opportunity. So the pawn with perfectly viable weapon for close range (pistol, smg, machine pistol) standing right behind fighting melees isn't viable at all, unless you don't care about friendlies get shot by your own shooters.
Quote from: anitram on July 13, 2018, 03:41:14 AM
3. Animal slaughter - sometimes when raided, both mechanoids and humans attack farm and pack animals first. Is this a new change, I don't remember this from beta? It can be both annoying and helpful, so not sure what to think about this... (I had 2 lancers hunting down my farm animals while the other 2 were attacking my base, so this could also be used as a tactic...)
Also, I've noticed that I tend to get a bit better pawns in random events (visitor, escape pod, refugee chased, even capturing raiders). Not everyone is a pyromaniac who can only do cloudwatching. Some are even very good. Is this just RNG or was it changed? Thankfully, no more colonies where 10/15 are idle most of the time because they cannot do skilled labor, dumb labor, violent and doctoring.
Regarding animals - was always here. Raids are here not to take your stuff but do destroy it, so they are going for whatever they see. Killing animals, burning crops, destroying furniture.
Random pawns are still random. Still getting god-awful ones, and most are scarred.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 13, 2018, 03:53:20 AM
Quote from: zizard on July 13, 2018, 03:14:22 AM
Within the no-intercept range, you can still get FF from missing when the wild shot goes into a square that your colonist is in. So use something that doesn't miss so much at touch range.
This wild shot nonsense just penalizes you for using tight formations for no obvious reason. Enemies still cover fire from behind melees just fine, since they obviously don't care about a destroyed lung or one more corpse for that matter. But for player it seems you either go full melee or if your front row was engaged - you have to cease fire immediately and let your shooters just stay there watching the rape unfold, waiting for occasional targets of opportunity. So the pawn with perfectly viable weapon for close range (pistol, smg, machine pistol) standing right behind fighting melees isn't viable at all, unless you don't care about friendlies get shot by your own shooters.
Enemies not just don't care. They are happy to use AoE weapons in such cases.
That really shouldn't be a thing at extremely close ranges (2-3 tiles away from shooter).
Quote from: Madman666 on July 13, 2018, 03:53:20 AM
Quote from: zizard on July 13, 2018, 03:14:22 AM
Within the no-intercept range, you can still get FF from missing when the wild shot goes into a square that your colonist is in. So use something that doesn't miss so much at touch range.
This wild shot nonsense just penalizes you for using tight formations for no obvious reason. Enemies still cover fire from behind melees just fine, since they obviously don't care about a destroyed lung or one more corpse for that matter. But for player it seems you either go full melee or if your front row was engaged - you have to cease fire immediately and let your shooters just stay there watching the rape unfold, waiting for occasional targets of opportunity. So the pawn with perfectly viable weapon for close range (pistol, smg, machine pistol) standing right behind fighting melees isn't viable at all, unless you don't care about friendlies get shot by your own shooters.
The touch accuracy of close range weapons is usually around 90%, and they tend to have lower damage and AP, so the risk is lower. An alternative is manually firing at enemies further away.
Seems a LOT more than 10% chance, to shoot you melee pal in the crock pot. I dunno about you, but for me in the game that can and will kill and cripple pawns with just one unlucky shot, using formations, that can ruin you as effectuvely as enemy is a luxury i can't afford. And it seems the game steadily runs towards making every your tactical decision no matter how brilliant have a solid chance to screw you over still.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg418201#msg418201
Alternate caption:
"Checkmate Goodman!"
"Over my dead body!"
I've been playing a campaign in Phoebe extra hard in 1.01950 and 51 versions (no problem with saved games when it was updated to 51), and I now I am at the first year of campaign, in Aprimay season.
- I like how treatment of injured pawns work now. You have enough time to treat them.
- I like the difficulty progression of raids. I suffered injuries in all of them. I had some interesting and different raids:
- the first against 5 nude melee enemies,
- the second against 6 hard techno pirates with pump shotguns, flag grenades. In this case I lost my 2 dogs that they joined to the colony and were trained previously. When surviving enemies tried to flee, all my pawns except the hunter were hurt. One enemy fled capturing my researcher, but when he was on the border of the map, my hunter shot him from the distante with her bolt-action rifle and killed him (yeeeeeah), rescuing the colony researcher :)
- the third against 7-8 tribal enemies with long bows and spears. Long bow men were hard to beat because they got cover from far trees I couldn't clear before.
- the fourth against 12 manhunter wolves.
- the fifth against a poison ship with 3 scyters and 1 lancer. (Now I have plasteel enough to continue researching :) )
- I suffered a cold snap, it was during the current Aprimay season. In all alphas and versions I played, I never have suffered a cold snap in Winter, when it can hurt more.
- It's a bit annoying for pawns that are sleeping or recovering from injuries, when caravan members from another factions enter with their animals into their rooms. Foreign caravans should stay outside the colony perimeter.
- With only 7 pawn in one year, I see difficult and risky to venture outside my colony in order to accomplish missions. No interaction with other factions.
- I suffered 1 bear attack. My miner was in a tunnel and had no escape and miraculously survived with her pump shotgun. When the bear approached slowly (it received two shots) to melee range, my miner hit it and stun it, giving enough time to the tailor to reach the mine and shot the bear from the back and kill it. The miner survived with 2 serious wounds. I like wild animals agressivity vs pawns and domesticated animals.
- I like the necessity of researching solar panels at the beginning of campaign.
- Mind problems work better now than in other alphas: In previous alphas, it was difficult to see a mental break in pawns that were at risk of suffer it. Now, if a pawn's mood is below a threshold, you must be careful. I suffered in this campaign 2 food binges, 3 dazes and and one pawn insulting another jeje.
- I see that my animals don't move to farther areas where an animal died in order to feed. I expand the animal area but they don't move even if they are starving. In previous alphas I remember they move without restrictions.
- In dry thunderstorms, I must expand home area anytime a fire starts and this is boring.
This is a solid version and Rimworld is a great game. Anytime you play is like watching a movie.
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Just to let you know Tynan sylvester. In permadeath when playing in windowed mode the game doesn't save at all when closing by clicking on the X button to exit the program on the top right corner. :P
BTW Yes having his own fun. But TBH watching him doing that for others if it were in youtube or in another video streaming media site or with someone else doing that isn't fun or interesting at all. Killing my enjoyment for watching the video in question.
Anyways loving what you're doing with the game. Bow art for the recurve bow looks cool now! Hoping that Rimworld gets a real great release!
About the new door closing speed - it seems to have made dealing with melee enemies quite a bit easier. Most guns can now get a shot off before doors (especially stone) finish closing, and the enemies can't walk through doors that are only temporarily opened. For manhunter packs I've just been having 3 to 6 pawns stand behind the door while another pawn triggers the door to open and then walks back before being in melee range. I think you adjusted doors to try to hinder the whole 'door peeking' strategy, but the lowered effectiveness against ranged enemies doesn't seem to be nearly as big as the increased ease of fighting melee enemies, in my experience at least.
My suggestion - allow doors that are currently in any kind of animation to be usable by enemies. This way you have to go back inside earlier or the enemy will get their foot in the door, and you won't be able to just shoot animals in the face with no consequence while they're banging on the door. Dwarf Fortress has a mechanic where when an enemy walks through one of your doors, it's 'captured' and can no longer be locked. I think a good Rimworld equivalent would be that doors which enemies pass through are automatically considered held open until your pawn goes through again.
Need a way to forbid pawns from eating insect jelly. That junk is straight toxic.
Destroying hives takes too long. With ranged weapons, pawns are hitting anything around but hives, and in melee, it takes forever. Rinse, repeat 20 times (for each spawned hive).
Pawns with food poisoning should take bed rest. Now they are going to field work and when it gains severity they are downed and need rescue.
Quote from: anitram on July 13, 2018, 03:41:14 AM
Also, I've noticed that I tend to get a bit better pawns in random events (visitor, escape pod, refugee chased, even capturing raiders). Not everyone is a pyromaniac who can only do cloudwatching. Some are even very good. Is this just RNG or was it changed? Thankfully, no more colonies where 10/15 are idle most of the time because they cannot do skilled labor, dumb labor, violent and doctoring.
Yes, actually, one thing I did a month or so ago was make a Monte Carlo sampler for incapabilities of generated pawns, and I re-tuned the backstory selection chance offsets related to incapabilities. It should be a lot more "even" now. Glad someone noticed!
New build!
Still lots to do over here, taking notes and tuning. Thank you so much to those who've given feedback. Please keep it coming.
As always, the changelist is here for reference, but please try to stick to experience-based discussion for this thread.
I reworked adaptation system (formerly known as ramp-up) completely; it largely revolves around giving some breathing room after heavy losses to make recovery possible. Trying not to make the effect too extreme though. It should nudge, not dominate the numbers. Anyway, the raw data graph is available and I'd love to see any that anyone can post (ideally started from a new game after this build). There's also a "fun points" :D graph that goes with it.
----
Long range mineral scanner can be tuned to find a specific mineral.
Long range mineral scanner rework:
-It's a 3x3 building with an interaction spot on one side.
-To work, it must be used by a pawn continuously. This is "Research" work below research in priority. Its chance of finding minerals is factored by the pawn's Research speed stat.
-Separate LRMSs work totally independently. You can now use as many as you want to find as many precious lumps as you like, though of course it does consume research effort.
Fix: Adaptation double-counts pawns who are downed and killed in the same event.
Fix: Adaptation does not count colonists lost in caravans.
Fix: Adaptation curve can't draw under zero.
Storyteller adaptation rework:
-Slightly reduce population intent growth speed after population gain.
-Fix: Adaptation does not count kidnapped.
-Adapt are clamped above -40 (not zero).
-Adapt days does not grow for 20 days after game start.
-Retuned adapt days -> points factor curve.
-Retuned adaptation impact of pawn losses and downs.
-Adaptation grows at different rates depending on how high it is (faster when low and slower when high.)
-Reduce adaptation growth rate above zero at low difficulties.
Misc tuning
-Infestations points per hive 200 -> 220.
-Review/reduce eye scar chance factor.
-Increase mini-turret damage, reduce maintenance cost, decrease health.
-Reduce wound healing speed gain from tending.
-Time temporarily jumps to normal speed upon prison break incident.
New debug history graph: Threat points.
Rename rampup -> adaptation
Fix typo.
Moved more constants to SiteTuning.
Removed some more unnecessary parameters from VerbProperties methods.
Fixed minor AdjustedMeleeSelectionWeight() debug output bug.
Refactored verb adjusted damage, AP, cooldown, etc. calculations. Tools debug output now outputs selection weights.
Refactored and cleaned up the verbs/tools/maneuvers system.
beCarriedIfSick now defaults to false for animals.
Techprof subpersona core now gives the technology you're currently researching instead of a random one.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 13, 2018, 06:37:43 AM
Pawns with food poisoning should take bed rest. Now they are going to field work and when it gains severity they are downed and need rescue.
This reminds me: Would it be possible to change the terminology between bed rest and sleeping? It's minor as hell, but I've had points where I've 'argued' with a pawn who keeps trying to 'rest' in the middle of the day because I didn't realize some infection or illness had kicked off and they needed treatment; I just thought they decided to go to sleep at 2 in the afternoon; Since I sometimes have pawns decide to get up at 3 am and go play chess, I try to regulate their sleep cycles by keeping them up if they're just a bit tired.
Differentiation between 'bed rest' and 'sleep' would help to make it clearer why the pawn is trying to head to bed.
Hats off to you, Tynan. I didn't think about this way to rework mineral scanners and at the same time solve the problem of researchers being useless late game. Now this is really amazing change. I guess i ll start a new run, to see ramp up in the work and have some fun with using new LRMSs. I tend to get quite a few research capable pawns and always have two working on researching. Finally they'll bring something good even after research is done.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 06:46:16 AM
Quote from: anitram on July 13, 2018, 03:41:14 AM
Also, I've noticed that I tend to get a bit better pawns in random events (visitor, escape pod, refugee chased, even capturing raiders). Not everyone is a pyromaniac who can only do cloudwatching. Some are even very good. Is this just RNG or was it changed? Thankfully, no more colonies where 10/15 are idle most of the time because they cannot do skilled labor, dumb labor, violent and doctoring.
Yes, actually, one thing I did a month or so ago was make a Monte Carlo sampler for incapabilities of generated pawns, and I re-tuned the backstory selection chance offsets related to incapabilities. It should be a lot more "even" now. Glad someone noticed!
In my last run I got 1 useful pawn in such events, the other 10 (?) were potatoes or utter trash. Bad sample size of cause, so hard to notice this. At a later stage I just denied refugees because I felt they will be again just a useless one that resets the colonists join variable, so the raids afterwards won't have downed raiders to capture and I didn't want to bother with a large raid for just a few weapons and corpses. High risk, low benefit.
There's a back compatibility problem, I'm fixing it now. Fix should be up in 10-30 minutes.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 07:16:50 AM
There's a back compatibility problem, I'm fixing it now. Fix should be up in 10-30 minutes.
Yup, loaded a game from a few hours ago, and now have immortal bunlings wandering around
https://gist.github.com/WraithCadmus/76e2fb4181a18f897f752165697d07ca
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: WraithCadmus on July 13, 2018, 07:33:11 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 07:16:50 AM
There's a back compatibility problem, I'm fixing it now. Fix should be up in 10-30 minutes.
Yup, loaded a game from a few hours ago, and now have immortal bunlings wandering around
https://gist.github.com/WraithCadmus/76e2fb4181a18f897f752165697d07ca
It's only a bunny rabbit!
Quote from: Jstank on July 13, 2018, 07:47:06 AM
It's only a bunny rabbit!
Weirdly it's
not dangerous, it seems to be intangible, can't shoot it any more, and meleeing it results in them jabbing at each other for a while before getting bored and wandering off.
Wow. That is not the problem I saw. I hope that was fixed too.
It may have been throwing exceptions in the dying code, which would make sense. So the poor thing was unable to die.
Could be related to the Alien Framework and Android mods I'm running, they might affect the death code for the exploding droids. Not to worry, I'm sure it'll be sorted soon.
EDIT: Yup, worked, an immortal squirrel keeled over on load, top work Tynan.
Dexterity play is described as training shooting skill. Well, it is technically true. A pawn can get something like 10 experience points from a session. Not sure it worth mention.
Quote from: DubskiDude on July 12, 2018, 01:27:11 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Tynan, I respect you as a dev, but making permadeath mandatory would be a terrible idea.
And also useless. All it takes to bypass permadeath is instant alt+F4 and load the last autosave.
Quote from: Sig on July 13, 2018, 08:23:33 AM
And also useless. All it takes to bypass permadeath is instant alt+F4 and load the last autosave.
But it will alter your game:
(https://i.imgur.com/3ifGIHT.jpg)
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on July 13, 2018, 08:38:03 AM
Quote from: Sig on July 13, 2018, 08:23:33 AM
And also useless. All it takes to bypass permadeath is instant alt+F4 and load the last autosave.
But it will alter your game:
It will alter your game the same way mod does.
If you or anyone else do not like the idea of people save scumming, then why is mod allowed? It's the same difference.
People can choose if they want to use mods, be it balance breaking mods, QoL or just flavor like new sprites.
The same way people should be able to save whenever they want, load as much as they want and experiment the game the way they want.
Is there any way to tie melee weapon spawning to the brawler trait? I'm running a scenario with the brawler spawn rate at 60% and it's strange to see raids/caravans/visitors/friendlies who supposedly prefer melee bringing ranged weapons and then taking a huge mood hit for it.
Quote from: Sig on July 13, 2018, 08:23:33 AM
Quote from: DubskiDude on July 12, 2018, 01:27:11 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Tynan, I respect you as a dev, but making permadeath mandatory would be a terrible idea.
And also useless. All it takes to bypass permadeath is instant alt+F4 and load the last autosave.
It seems pretty apparent to me he just said to change it to being the DEFAULT setting and how its presented, not taking away the ability for turning it off. Quite simply the checkbox checked on instead of off when you start a new game. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this and so argumentative over it.
IMO Tynan has an a vision for how he thinks the game is generally meant to be played as after all he did design it. He also knows there are tons of other types of players who play for different reasons, hence the ability to check the box on and off, change storytellers, difficulties, etc.
If someone wants to keep permadeath mode turned on, but then ALT-F4 they are doing nothing but cheating themselves. IMO switching the defaults to perma on is perfectly fine and would most likely help a lot of new players understand the design goal vision a little easier as I'm sure quite a lot of people don't really grasp it right away. It's easy for people to see this more as a colony sim where they think they are supposed to play perfectly vs suffer, lose and rebuild.
All of that said, unfair stuff definitely happens in this game. That's what we are in this thread to help Tynan figure out. Balance, improvements, etc. I came to Rimworld from DF and I definitely struggled for a long time (and still do sometimes) to view the game as a story maker and less of a colony sim. I bounce back and forth between permadeath games and not and some days I'm totally ok with getting my ass handed to me a few hours into a colony to some bad RNG, other times I save scum or ragequit and take a break. I wish I had started watching hardcore/extreme type players who are all about the story on youtube/twitch before I played and I think I wouldn't have some of the same bad habits I do now.
TL;DR: changing how perma is presented is totally fine and has zero effect on anyone already playing, as does changing the default checkbox to ON instead of off.
hey, just found a nasty bug that completly prevents everyone from attacking. got a mechanoid raid, most of them died on traps no problem, but some of them got through and to my surprise, they're just standing there. nobody's attacking, then I checked as well if I could make my colonists fight, nope. could be some of my mods installed, but yesterday everything was working fine. hope this can be of some help, cheers.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Is firefighting broken for anyone else with the latest build? My pawns just go to fires and then stand there.
Fedon has bonded to a dog, but Fedon has too little Animal skill to bond with it. Please let them bond regardless of skill level.
EDIT: Also, firefighting bug.
Yes firefighting is broken for me too. Even if the status is "Beating fire out" (or "burning"), they just stand without doing something useful ;D
(Build 1963)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 06:49:16 AM
New build!
Still lots to do over here, taking notes and tuning. Thank you so much to those who've given feedback. Please keep it coming.
-Reduce wound healing speed gain from tending.
...
Techprof subpersona core now gives the technology you're currently researching instead of a random one.
THANK YOU for the core change! But why nerf healing rate?
Also are item caches supposed to be able to hide in mountains? Cuz I had that happen. It was an ambush and they all popped out of the little nook there, fish in a barrel!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1439871694
Quote from: Galvenox on July 13, 2018, 09:19:35 AM
hey, just found a nasty bug that completly prevents everyone from attacking. got a mechanoid raid, most of them died on traps no problem, but some of them got through and to my surprise, they're just standing there. nobody's attacking, then I checked as well if I could make my colonists fight, nope. could be some of my mods installed, but yesterday everything was working fine. hope this can be of some help, cheers.
I'm having this same issue except my pawn wont do ANYTHING. He was trying to repair a piece of wall outside of my home made crematorium room (maltov body disposal) and I cancelled his actions by drafting and removed the home zone on it so he would stop. After putting him back into work mode he went to mine a section I had marked. Tasks said he was mining, but he wasn't hitting it. just standing there. No tick tick tick tick or anything. I tried manually forcing him to hit another square, took him on and off fighting mode multiple times, etc. Reloaded the game and it still persisted then suddenly a few days later he started mining again. No idea wtf.
Tynan I'm still having issues with people dying from things before it hits 100 when I'm beating it and treatment is occuring. First it was the infection I posted a few pages back, now its plague.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Came here to post that firefighting is bugged for me.
The pawns will go to where the fire is, but just stand there not doing anything. I even had one catch on fire and he just stood there, wouldn't move even when ordered to get out of the fire.
If you are playing with mods and see a line that end like this: _Patch1. Do not report it here until you have checked with the mod makers first :P . Means that some mod used Harmony to Patch a function.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 07:53:43 AM
Wow. That is not the problem I saw. I hope that was fixed too.
It may have been throwing exceptions in the dying code, which would make sense. So the poor thing was unable to die.
Evening.
Firstly, thanks Tynan, I absolutely love the game (my favourite storytelling sandbox) and you've inspired me greatly. My human leather cowboy hat is eternally tipped.
Secondly, I've found a new little bug - Boomalope ran over a deadfall trap, causing it to explode (I had set it up in a chokepoint for any old animal or raider to stumble upon), but when I went to put out the fire it wouldn't let me. Just made a "glitched" sound. My girl can definitely fight fires. Playing a non-modded 1963 build, naked brutality start. Didn't have devmode on originally, but figured I should look at the log to see what was going on.
Know this should probably sit in the bugs section, but seeing as you're playing hot potato with these unstable builds I thought to bring it to your attention here.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I just had lightning hit my brand new field of devilstrand, and half my colony get burned because they wont fight the fire, just stand in it. This is an alt-f4 kind of moment. lulz.
In the 5th option in the dev commands, select Explosion (extinguisher)
Issues like this, and the 9999 scar thing, are why dev mode exists!
Quote from: Sirsir on July 13, 2018, 10:24:26 AM
In the 5th option in the dev commands, select Explosion (extinguisher)
Issues like this, and the 9999 scar thing, are why dev mode exists!
I've only used the dev mode once, just the other day, to see how healing worked. I didn't think to look for one to put out a fire. Tynan made a comment a little bit back in response to someone reporting this same issue but wih combat and said he's looking at it so hopefully a bugfix will pop out shortly. If not I guess I'll be devmoding it up for a bit to play.
Looks like build is bugged, Ison is fixing it. I'm reverting for now and will push a fixed build as soon as it's ready. ETA 30-120 minutes.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 10:41:02 AM
Looks like build is bugged, Ison is fixing it. I'm reverting for now and will push a fixed build as soon as it's ready. ETA 30-120 minutes.
Is that fixing the firefighting bug?
Yeah.
Should be faster than I thought, done in 5-10 (was already fixed, just had to include the fix).
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 10:50:53 AM
Yeah.
Should be faster than I thought, done in 5-10 (was already fixed, just had to include the fix).
Awesome, thanks!
I have my first Toxic Fallout 1.0 and the animals being rotten as soon as they die from toxic fallout is an interesting change.
So I rescued some animals to kill them inside, before they die of toxic fallout. Still the body of the animal startet rotting right away.
Is this supposed to happen because of the toxic buildup ?
[quote author=mndfreeze link=topic=41766.msg418288#msg418288
Tynan I'm still having issues with people dying from things before it hits 100 when I'm beating it and treatment is occuring. First it was the infection I posted a few pages back, now its plague.
[/quote]
I need a savegame from just before this happens, can you or anyone else supply one?
Thanks.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 13, 2018, 10:51:42 AM
I have my first Toxic Fallout 1.0 and the animals being rotten as soon as they die from toxic fallout is an interesting change.
So I rescued some animals to kill them inside, before they die of toxic fallout. Still the body of the animal startet rotting right away.
Is this supposed to happen because of the toxic buildup ?
If so, I think that is a great change. The toxic fallout event was almost a boon rather than a hindrance with the free meat supply.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 06:49:16 AM
I reworked adaptation system (formerly known as ramp-up) completely; it largely revolves around giving some breathing room after heavy losses to make recovery possible. Trying not to make the effect too extreme though. It should nudge, not dominate the numbers. Anyway, the raw data graph is available and I'd love to see any that anyone can post (ideally started from a new game after this build). There's also a "fun points" :D graph that goes with it.
At work and unable to play right now, so I guess this goes against the rules of 'no theorycrafting' - but the wording here is a little concerning to me. I was under the impression that 'breathing room' should be governed by the storyteller, not the ramp-up/adaptation factor. I typically play Randy extreme permadeath, and the fun is managing the insanity: My current game had a sapper raid that broke through the outer wall, downed 1-2 of my pawns, and THEN a scyther group dropped directly on my base. It was a 3 way battle royale I somehow came away from victorious.
My question would be: If every story teller will now gives me breathing room, would that scyther raid never have happened? Would it have been neutered?
Small feedback.
Why I can't just use drop pods when I send things that needed in trade request quest?
I just wanted to send things with drop pods, But I can only "gift" things to them, and it only increases friendship, so it's not trade.
It seems I must send pawns(with things) to complete trade request quest.
It's bit weird.
EDIT:Grammar fix
tribal camps couldn't send their half the trade back with drop pods, but others should be able to
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
Quote from: mndfreeze link=topic=41766.msg418288#msg418288
Tynan I'm still having issues with people dying from things before it hits 100 when I'm beating it and treatment is occuring. First it was the infection I posted a few pages back, now its plague.
I need a savegame from just before this happens, can you or anyone else supply one?
Thanks.
I had to deal with people having this problem a few times on the discord. It's usually that a vital body part efficiency hits 0% and they die because of that. Maybe a better message to make this clearer would help people understanding the death reason.
I obviously can't say there is no bug, just that it often is a normal gameplay effect.
Is it intended for insects to attack the colony if a deadfall trap is triggered? Because i left plenty of those around the map but insects have gone far away from their original hive and now they are getting aggroed for this...
Changing their behaviour so that they wont attack us anymore because of roof colapse was a great move, but it should also apply to deadfall traps since no human is around and they cant figure that the colony is involved.
They are already too strong with the rework of bullets drastically reducing bleed chance. If they also have an excuse to assault the colony all the time then they will always be game breaking.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 13, 2018, 10:51:42 AM
I have my first Toxic Fallout 1.0 and the animals being rotten as soon as they die from toxic fallout is an interesting change.
So I rescued some animals to kill them inside, before they die of toxic fallout. Still the body of the animal startet rotting right away.
Is this supposed to happen because of the toxic buildup ?
From what I noticed when I had the fallout, after it was announced I could still hunt animals as I was getting ready to stockpile so I can shut my pawns under roofed areas, but I think the instant rotting of corpses upon death is related to their toxic buildup. Since I started hunting immediately as soon as I got the letter, I'm not sure whether those animals had any buildup at that point or not, but possibly they only rot instantly on dying when toxic buildup is at a certain level (maybe past initial?). When I waited for some rhinos to be downed (serious or extreme buildup by then) then they turned rotten when killed instantly.
Feels like it's balanced so you can't just wait for them to die on their own then haul everything in for free food.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
[quote author=mndfreeze link=topic=41766.msg418288#msg418288
Tynan I'm still having issues with people dying from things before it hits 100 when I'm beating it and treatment is occuring. First it was the infection I posted a few pages back, now its plague.
I need a savegame from just before this happens, can you or anyone else supply one?
Thanks.
[/quote]
I'm playing on hardcore so no savegame :( If/when it happens again I'll save and upload.
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 13, 2018, 08:47:07 AM
Quote from: Sig on July 13, 2018, 08:23:33 AM
Quote from: DubskiDude on July 12, 2018, 01:27:11 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 12, 2018, 08:26:58 AM
That's a terrible way to play, btw. The game is designed for loss and recovery, you're totally neutering it.
I'm gonna redesign how permadeath is presented. Maybe on by default.
Tynan, I respect you as a dev, but making permadeath mandatory would be a terrible idea.
And also useless. All it takes to bypass permadeath is instant alt+F4 and load the last autosave.
It seems pretty apparent to me he just said to change it to being the DEFAULT setting and how its presented, not taking away the ability for turning it off. Quite simply the checkbox checked on instead of off when you start a new game. I'm not sure why everyone is missing this and so argumentative over it.
IMO Tynan has an a vision for how he thinks the game is generally meant to be played as after all he did design it. He also knows there are tons of other types of players who play for different reasons, hence the ability to check the box on and off, change storytellers, difficulties, etc.
If someone wants to keep permadeath mode turned on, but then ALT-F4 they are doing nothing but cheating themselves. IMO switching the defaults to perma on is perfectly fine and would most likely help a lot of new players understand the design goal vision a little easier as I'm sure quite a lot of people don't really grasp it right away. It's easy for people to see this more as a colony sim where they think they are supposed to play perfectly vs suffer, lose and rebuild.
All of that said, unfair stuff definitely happens in this game. That's what we are in this thread to help Tynan figure out. Balance, improvements, etc. I came to Rimworld from DF and I definitely struggled for a long time (and still do sometimes) to view the game as a story maker and less of a colony sim. I bounce back and forth between permadeath games and not and some days I'm totally ok with getting my ass handed to me a few hours into a colony to some bad RNG, other times I save scum or ragequit and take a break. I wish I had started watching hardcore/extreme type players who are all about the story on youtube/twitch before I played and I think I wouldn't have some of the same bad habits I do now.
TL;DR: changing how perma is presented is totally fine and has zero effect on anyone already playing, as does changing the default checkbox to ON instead of off.
I never assumed he wanted to make it mandatory. By replying to that other message I was trying to make a point of how I perceive the permadeath mode as useless in its current state, since it doesn't enforce anything and can be bypassed if the tentation arises, therefore permadeath mode is more in the mindset of the player than anything else.
Got a weird bug where my pawns stood next to fire but could not put it out. They made a repeated clicking sound. now they are moonwalking around not facing properly I am playing randy extreme on naked brutality start. The pawns are actually completely broken. When I tell a pawn to attack another one they stop being broken. But as soon as they try to put out the fire the pawn goes back to being broken and unable to complete a task.
(https://i.imgur.com/S7JZVwJ.png)
I've been banging about the whole "send stuff to allies via drop pods" since A17 lol. I'm sure Tynan will get around to it!
Also, first experienced drop pods going haywire. I love it! I thought it was only three guys but it's really far apart. I approve of this new event. It reminds of the "raids go wrong" mod, though I'm pretty sure this type of raid going wrong didn't exist in the mod.
Autocannons remain there, turned off. I've got 4 of them around the base but the biggest issue with them is the minimum range mod. This is okay balancing, but I find the mini-turret still the most useful and versatile of all the turrets.
Quote from: Namsan on July 13, 2018, 11:03:23 AM
Small feedback.
Why I can't just use drop pods when I send things that needed in trade request quest?
I just wanted to send things with drop pods, But I can only "gift" things to them, and it only increases friendship, so it's not trade.
It seems I must send pawns(with things) to complete trade request quest.
It's bit weird.
You have to send a colonist to complete the task. It's only achievable via caravan.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 13, 2018, 11:28:43 AM
Is it intended for insects to attack the colony if a deadfall trap is triggered? Because i left plenty of those around the map but insects have gone far away from their original hive and now they are getting aggroed for this...
Changing their behaviour so that they wont attack us anymore because of roof colapse was a great move, but it should also apply to deadfall traps since no human is around and they cant figure that the colony is involved.
They are already too strong with the rework of bullets drastically reducing bleed chance. If they also have an excuse to assault the colony all the time then they will always be game breaking.
I wonder what made them go far away from the hives. Beside this, I doubt devs will change their behavior once they hit deadfall trap. It's not about if it looks realistic, players would get used to abuse the system if they know they can put deadfall traps around hives to get rid of the insects.
Once I tested insectoid behavior on a map with multiple starting hives. When I attack one hive, all insects on the map started assaulting. I think this is troublesome though. They eventually go back if I stop and they're far away but I don't think it should be triggered.
hm, I still can't attack anything after the newest patch. tried creating a new colony too.
Quote from: krizs on July 13, 2018, 11:34:53 AM
From what I noticed when I had the fallout, after it was announced I could still hunt animals as I was getting ready to stockpile so I can shut my pawns under roofed areas, but I think the instant rotting of corpses upon death is related to their toxic buildup. Since I started hunting immediately as soon as I got the letter, I'm not sure whether those animals had any buildup at that point or not, but possibly they only rot instantly on dying when toxic buildup is at a certain level (maybe past initial?). When I waited for some rhinos to be downed (serious or extreme buildup by then) then they turned rotten when killed instantly.
Feels like it's balanced so you can't just wait for them to die on their own then haul everything in for free food.
So moderate toxic buildup does the rotting thing to my tame muffalos which I wanted to butcher for food. .. maybe my 3 caravan guys arrive in time to relieve my people but I guess I have to leave my map for a while to avoid starving to death.
I'll be honest, so long as the save operation is reliable (unlike some OTHER ironman games out there) I don't mind permadeath being the default.
Is there any chance though that instead of having to back out to the main menu and go through all the initial new game dialogues we can get a 'try again with the same world settings' option? Eh, I'm sure someone will come up with a mod for that, but I feel like it's one of those things which would be nice to have in the game, even if it isn't a top priority right now.
Quote from: MarvinKosh on July 13, 2018, 12:50:31 PM
I'll be honest, so long as the save operation is reliable (unlike some OTHER ironman games out there) I don't mind permadeath being the default.
Is there any chance though that instead of having to back out to the main menu and go through all the initial new game dialogues we can get a 'try again with the same world settings' option? Eh, I'm sure someone will come up with a mod for that, but I feel like it's one of those things which would be nice to have in the game, even if it isn't a top priority right now.
I 100% can't agree more. Biggest thing that makes it hard to accept just starting new games all the time is I spend a lot of prep time finding the correct pawns and location I want before playing. I would go a step further and give players a small reward for starting over.
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on July 13, 2018, 12:32:49 PM
Quote from: Namsan on July 13, 2018, 11:03:23 AM
Small feedback.
Why I can't just use drop pods when I send things that needed in trade request quest?
I just wanted to send things with drop pods, But I can only "gift" things to them, and it only increases friendship, so it's not trade.
It seems I must send pawns(with things) to complete trade request quest.
It's bit weird.
You have to send a colonist to complete the task. It's only achievable via caravan.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 13, 2018, 11:28:43 AM
Is it intended for insects to attack the colony if a deadfall trap is triggered? Because i left plenty of those around the map but insects have gone far away from their original hive and now they are getting aggroed for this...
Changing their behaviour so that they wont attack us anymore because of roof colapse was a great move, but it should also apply to deadfall traps since no human is around and they cant figure that the colony is involved.
They are already too strong with the rework of bullets drastically reducing bleed chance. If they also have an excuse to assault the colony all the time then they will always be game breaking.
I wonder what made them go far away from the hives. Beside this, I doubt devs will change their behavior once they hit deadfall trap. It's not about if it looks realistic, players would get used to abuse the system if they know they can put deadfall traps around hives to get rid of the insects.
Once I tested insectoid behavior on a map with multiple starting hives. When I attack one hive, all insects on the map started assaulting. I think this is troublesome though. They eventually go back if I stop and they're far away but I don't think it should be triggered.
When they get very far away, they wont return to the hive. This is something very easy to notice by playing ludicrous.
Its hard to abuse the system the way you suggest since if done inside or adyacent to the hive, the colony would need to draw out most insects first, get inside from far away (since any colonist close to the hive will die, considering how fast insects are and how resistant they have becomed in recent patches), do all the building and escape without getting brutaly murdered by insects.
Fighting will be required inside the hive as well since i have noticed there is always one or two insects guarding the hive during insect assaults.
The last thing you mentioned is a major issue though. 99% of insects getting aggroed by killing a bug a kilometer away from the rest of the hive is a colony killer
Some 1.0 feedback.
- Stack merging/priority hauling. While the item stack merging and the reduced number of fur/meat types was a welcome change, I feel like it creates problems when you try to set up priority stockpiles. The haulers tend to run in circles merging minor stacks, when really I want them to prioritize hauling new items from further away. I'm not sure how to solve this other than (currently micromanagement) or setting up a built in feature that allows you to prioritize hauling New Items > Merge Stacks.
- Tattered Clothing/Armor Rating. It feels weird to me that my 48% Good Thrumbofur Duster has nearly double the armor value of my Good 100% Heavy Fur Duster. It makes me choose between the tattered clothing debuff and lesser amor value. Maybe this is intended? I feel like there should be a drastic drop off in the protection of a given item once you pass the 50% threshold.
- Categorized Resources. Minor complaint, but it's been there for as long as I can remember. When you hover over the dropdown arrow in the categorized resources layout, if you have cursor edge screen scroll on, your screen moves to the left. The UI should be tweaked to prevent this.
- Ground Penetrating Scanner. If I had to guess, since Tynan revamped the LRMS, he probably has something in mind for this as well. It's currently something you build, turn on when placing deep drills, and then turn back off to save power. Not exactly thoughtful decision making.
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on July 13, 2018, 08:38:03 AM
But it will alter your game
No, it will alter my game like this:
(http://pulpaudio.com/rimworld/rimworld_permadeath.png)
Still on the same colony, Cassandra medium, mountainous temperate forest.
My map has a river that goes through the mountain, and a hive spawned in it. Since it wasn't inside my base I let it be, as I didn't felt like dealing with it. In retrospect it was a mistake, as I found out that cold snaps don't kill them anymore. Cleaning up a 30 hive infestation with like 40-50 of each type of bug right next to your colony was quite an enterprise.
Anyways my notes:
- Collecting jelly during the night is deadly if the hive happens to be in a river, pawns would rather path over the bugs sleeping in the shore than wet their feet. I have read a lot of rants about the soaking wet moodlet but in this case I would rather take the mood debuff than the chitin claws.
- Pets were more useful than my melee pawns in keeping the bugs off the ranged ones, mostly because I didn't have to micro them to attack. It was already said but It would be great if melee pawns had an "aggressive mode", where they would auto attack any enemy that gets near their player designated position, just like pets do when defending their master. Can be something like a "hold position/defend this place" button for melee pawns.
- There should be a notification when pawns undraft themselves, in one occasion I took too long to bait the insects and I didn't realize that all my pawns left their positions when the bugs came pouring in. Had to load a previous save.
- How do allied caravans decide where to wait in your base? In my colony they always wait in the most awkward and inconvenient places, never near by the entrance. Like far away by the geothermal plant, or in a constrained one tile wide tunnel inside the mountain, or right into the huge insect infestation that grow very close to the colony. I think they should be smarter about it... got a free charge lance and a faction boost though.
- I feel like pets reproduce too quickly, every time I see a "has given birth" message I just kill the puppies, since opportunities for sell them don't come often enough. My fridge has 11 puppy corpses and a least 6 are about to be born in a couple of days. I know I can keep only one gender, but that's a all or nothing proposition, I wish there was a neutering operation so I could tone down the rate of reproduction. That would save me some hassle and having the females almost always with movement debuffs. Also, peg legs for dogs plz.
- Opportunistic hauling seems to never kick in when I want it to, like when miners return to rest, I never saw them bring some of the ore with them.
- I can't forbid replacing components of something that broke, if I'm sort in components I don't want pawns to use them to fix a heater.
- The ingredient radius setting of work benches shouldn't be configured from the bill's details, but from the, I don't know how is called, the bills tab that's always at the left (still configured per bill, I don't mean like a radius common to all). The bill details dialog obscures the center of the screen so this always lead to the awkward "let me move the view around so the work bench is visible after I open the details of the bill".
- I had a grenade-only drop pod raid, that despite the letter saying that they were dropping on top of me, they landed outside of the colony walls, that made them way less terrifying since they were easy targets for my ranged pawns.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 13, 2018, 12:37:40 PM
So moderate toxic buildup does the rotting thing to my tame muffalos which I wanted to butcher for food. .. maybe my 3 caravan guys arrive in time to relieve my people but I guess I have to leave my map for a while to avoid starving to death.
It is day 10 now of the toxic fallout, I savescummed a few times to test different strategies.
A second colony did not work out, because I my people did not make the journey of two tiles through the mountains.
Caravan Resting did not work out, because one of my people died from an infected scyther wound,
( yeah, a blight and psychic ship was exactly what I needed when starving ... )
-- EDIT -- the single death caused a breakdown spiral, when the bonded animals went crazy.
But finally when the first colonist collapsed on Decambrary 14th Raider Christmas has come in form of a nice little siege.
And I think my colony is going to make it.
planting trees still taking way too long. in case that whole map got down with volcanic winter / poison ship or just to make a small forest for next year harvest it's next to impossible while not designing all pawns
Must say big thank you for changing faction colors on map to more colorblind friendly :)
Quote from: m44v on July 13, 2018, 01:37:14 PM
How do allied caravans decide where to wait in your base? In my colony they always wait in the most awkward and inconvenient places, never near by the entrance. Like far away by the geothermal plant, or in a constrained one tile wide tunnel inside the mountain, or right into the huge insect infestation that grow very close to the colony. I think they should be smarter about it... got a free charge lance and a faction boost though.
They choose a mostly random spot "just outside your colony", as defined by your home zone. I personally agree that their spot selections leave much to be desired, but I can see the argument that it is a designed difficulty.
Quote from: m44v on July 13, 2018, 01:37:14 PM
I feel like pets reproduce too quickly, every time I see a "has given birth" message I just kill the puppies, since opportunities for sell them don't come often enough. My fridge has 11 puppy corpses and a least 6 are about to be born in a couple of days. I know I can keep only one gender, but that's a all or nothing proposition, I wish there was a neutering operation so I could tone down the rate of reproduction. That would save me some hassle and having the females almost always with movement debuffs. Also, peg legs for dogs plz.
I agree that neutering would be nice in certain situations. Such as pregnant muffalos slowing down your caravan. However, I'm pretty sure that peg legs for animals were removed because it was too easy to gain Medical experience that way. Maybe if peg legs for animals came back, but didn't give Medical experience...
Quote from: m44v on July 13, 2018, 01:37:14 PM
Opportunistic hauling seems to never kick in when I want it to, like when miners return to rest, I never saw them bring some of the ore with them.
That is probably because the target stockpile is too far from their bedroom (which is their new target location), so they don't haul as it would take them too far out of their way. Try putting a mined metals stockpile closer to the bedrooms (or freezer, if they are going for a meal instead).
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 13, 2018, 12:37:40 PM
So moderate toxic buildup does the rotting thing to my tame muffalos which I wanted to butcher for food. .. maybe my 3 caravan guys arrive in time to relieve my people but I guess I have to leave my map for a while to avoid starving to death.
If your muffalos are wandering around unroofed areas, then yeah, their meat becomes toxic too. Try putting up a bunch of roofs over some grassy areas when the fallout first begins, then assigning your meat animals to a zone that stays under the roofs. They can eat the grass that was already there for a while, and won't be toxic when you want to butcher them.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 12, 2018, 03:54:12 PM
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 12, 2018, 12:53:14 PM
Your larger, more populated, more mechanized base is making that much more noise, vibrations, and heat. Of course more and bigger hives would be attracted.
Also, I'd just like to set forth a concern about players, admittedly not playing on Extreme, trying to set the standard for and provide opinions on what it is. Let us crazy people have our pinnacle :(
Its still bs amount no matter how you look at it. Thats 400-500k wealth worth, not 175k. 70 bugs. And i ll mention once again, that it wasn't even extreme difficulty level, it was "hard". I don't play extreme masochistic levels, so feel free to make it however unfair and unbalanced you want - its there for that reason. But hard should be hard. Not crazy.
Fair enough. I love your feedback, to be honest. Keep it coming.
Well, my tribe colony from ~1.0.1958 just got wiped out by a siege with too much snipers so I want to share some notes taken from this and previous colony.
- Wild rats ignited IED traps. That's a bit annoying.
- Deep drills seem to only get one type of stone chunks present on map. Wish I could find different ones, at least if drill is placed on stone floor on that type.
- Mechs and insects are hard to find on map if some of them have separated from the main group. Especially when it is "pods went hayware" mechanoid raid. And insects just blend in with ground and trees.
- Since how much more convenient caravans are now, they could use some more reinstallable furniture, not only bedrolls . It's cool that we now have butcher spots that are very useful for smaller early game caravans, for makeshift kitchens with butcher spot and campfire.
For large caravans (~5-8 people with 10+ muffalo) now I carry a fueled stove (20 kg) with me, already with saved bills in it — neat! — to make snacks from foraged berries and animals on the spot I go to, but I feel like moving full size stove on a muffalo is a bit odd. (sometimes take a butcher table and a vanometric cell as well for some more serious camps)
If only there was something more suited for caravans in the niche between campfires and stoves for mid-end game caravans, like a smaller and lighter chemfuel stove just as we have portable gas stoves IRL.
- Another thing, now that we have foraging, does caravan cooks do something with gathered berries? I didn't quite look at it closely, but looks like pawns just eat it raw. It would be neat if they could actually cook something with it on campfires/stoves while caravan is resting. Hunters going for small game to get some meat, at least if caravan is resting in daytime when set to rest by player, would be nice too, and useful for colder regions with nothing to forage.
- Slaughter mental break event should send red letter — sometimes I have no chance to arrest that pawn, only hit pause button in time to find him already half way through the process. My poor starting doggos...
- When using 'b' for stockpile rename button it immediately prints b instead of previous name. With new "take to/look at the stockpile" feature I now name stockpiles much often and this is somewhat annoying when you need just to change the name slightly.
- Searching for weapons of people who fell on the ground like ones who went catatonic or drunk and so on every time is somewhat tedious.
- Research in tribe colony seems slow, but manageble and fitting. 2 researchers on different shifts make up for the speed penalty, 2 tables and 3 researchers is more than enough, for me at least, and let rush for techs at a price of pawn work time. (Cas extreeme)
- I feel like "Plate armor" is not complete without helmets covering at least ears, nose and mouth.
Thrilled to play with new LRMS, but from what I've already seen, there is no option to look for steel. Like, really big chunk of it, maybe 2-3 times larger than other deposits. I'd like it if there was one like that, there are situations when I would rather search for steel.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 13, 2018, 03:56:19 PM
Fair enough. I love your feedback, to be honest. Keep it coming.
Will do :D Just need to get home tomorrow and start RW up. I am real curious about new mineral scanner functionality (small hope, that steel was added to it lives on) and also about mini-turret rebalance (less hp, more dmg, less maintenance). Tbh i am kinda worried, since steel mini-turrets tend to pop like baloons already with weapons being buffed for damage.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 13, 2018, 04:06:13 PM
Thrilled to play with new LRMS, but from what I've already seen, there is no option to look for steel. Like, really big chunk of it, maybe 2-3 times larger than other deposits. I'd like it if there was one like that, there are situations when I would rather search for steel.
God. Damn. Why not steel? Why? Its the most needed resource, it makes perfect sense to let us search for it! Man :(
Quote from: Oblitus on July 12, 2018, 06:59:10 PM
... enemy forces who don't hesitate to use kamikaze tactics and don't care about losses and friendly fire ...
This. Why would every Tom, Dick, and Jane rush headlong into death? Even after watching multiple comrades take heavy damage or downed / killed? If it's possible to do, there should really be some kind of "Oh, Shit!" system for attackers. Have them backup a bit to further cover or attempt to use medicine on themselves, or pick up weapons from downed comrades, stop and seek cover after taking a couple of shots in short order (Those melee pack leaders,) etc. They don't have to all-out flee, since that mechanic already exists but, the kamikaze thing works way too well for raids and not at all for colonies. Go-Juice and certain traits, like Bloodlust or Psychopath, could negate this. A bit of variety and interest to raider actions would feel so good and let up, just a little bit, on the "melee rush."
As it stands, every soul we face off against is in fact, Tom Foolery, Deranged Dick, and Insane Jane.
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 13, 2018, 10:55:07 AM
If so, I think that is a great change. The toxic fallout event was almost a boon rather than a hindrance with the free meat supply.
Absolutely. I always used to look at toxic fallout as a flat out benefit because I'd instantly effortlessly get all the meat and leather on the map without risk/time hunting. Even big gribbly creatures.
I really love how it's the toxic buildup status effect that causes the rot, too; not just dying
in the fallout, so you can't game it by rescuing downed animals then killing them. It makes sense: their bodies are literally so full of toxins they're dying. Obviously it won't be good meat.
It's nice for Fallout to actually be a more dangerous event instead of just a green tinted benefit.
Quote from: ashaffee on July 13, 2018, 12:56:57 PM
I 100% can't agree more. Biggest thing that makes it hard to accept just starting new games all the time is I spend a lot of prep time finding the correct pawns and location I want before playing. I would go a step further and give players a small reward for starting over.
I'm totally on board with such an option, but as an aside I always make a new, specially named save at the very start of a game so I can restart that specific game.
However, if Tynan wants to have permadeath (with a less intimidating name) on by default, a "restart *this* game" option would be a very good idea, as a day-one save would no longer be possible.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 13, 2018, 04:52:05 PM
This. Why would every Tom, Dick, and Jane rush headlong into death? Even after watching multiple comrades take heavy damage or downed / killed? If it's possible to do, there should really be some kind of "Oh, Shit!" system for attackers. Have them backup a bit to further cover or attempt to use medicine on themselves, or pick up weapons from downed comrades, stop and seek cover after taking a couple of shots in short order (Those melee pack leaders,) etc. They don't have to all-out flee, since that mechanic already exists but, the kamikaze thing works way too well for raids and not at all for colonies. Go-Juice and certain traits, like Bloodlust or Psychopath, could negate this. A bit of variety and interest to raider actions would feel so good and let up, just a little bit, on the "melee rush."
As it stands, every soul we face off against is in fact, Tom Foolery, Deranged Dick, and Insane Jane.
I second this. But there was already an attempt to make raiders tend to themselves. Only they did it in the most improper place and time - like in the middle of open space, making them easy targets and didn't even stop tending when getting shot at, so it was removed... I wish there was a smarter way of implementing it - like taking cover, then tending, only tending when wounds are real bad, stop tending if under fire and etc. I d prefer smarter enemies over just more enemies everyday. I really don't like the mechanic of them just piling you with bodies, eventually reaching crazy amounts, but doing all the same stuff.
I just had mechanoids attack in force. Like 10 of them, right as *2* caravans from the same faction were leaving in that exact direction. I was terrified that these guys (who are normally in the negatives but I just got over 50) would hate me for it, but they all died to the mechanoids and took out about half of them doing so. My traps got a few more and I mopped up the last couple. Some of the caravan (and all of the muffalos) escaped so I didn't get a ton of stuff, but I was very happy to see my rep was still right at 51 when the whole thing was over.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 06:49:16 AM
I reworked adaptation system (formerly known as ramp-up) completely; it largely revolves around giving some breathing room after heavy losses to make recovery possible. Trying not to make the effect too extreme though. It should nudge, not dominate the numbers.
Dunno what you've been changing but after a tough fight I prefer time for recovery instead of reduced strenght for the next attack. RNG pisses me off the most when I get attacked shortly in repeat whilst I try to reconfigure myself.
So after playing a bunch with the new adaptation, it looks like this dramatically makes the game easier. My last raids were 45 tribals and 35 outlanders, this current raid is 14 sappers, and the last was 7 polar bear. This makes sense as the older system was a straight multiplier where, even if it dropped every other raid or two, would still end up being a multiplier of ~2-3, only reaching 4+ if you never lost anyone.
It could just mean I need to play more as probably the whole system reset to 0 on the update.
Edit: This update is probably a good stopping point anyways, as having played a turret based game last game and a killbox this game, it's getting a bit samey and the outdoors problem below is just killing it for me xD Things I can say about mountain bases:
The outdoors need is just killer and crazy annoying, even after the change. It is just so annoying to deal with: you have to draft them to sit outdoors, and then when they undraft you have to draft them and then when they undraft again you have to draft them. Times like 7 colonists. Only then they're starving to death because every four days or so you have to make them do this for a full day, and you don't want to make them go eat because you then have to hunt down 7 colonists to repeat this process. And you can't just deal with -15 mood, it's too crushing, so you have to do this.
And even when you do do this, not much is getting done because they're usually doing this ritual. So I guess you have to put off going into the mountain either until really really late game when you have tons of joywire, or just have to deal with this annoyance.
On caves: As noted earlier, it's bizarre that caves have these pockets of thin roofing when you mine out the innards of them. Probably has something to do with the order of these operations in map generation.
On infestations: Surprisingly the one I dealt with wasn't so bad, probably because of how I set up my cannons, deadfalls, and lighting, and I had some armored dudes to keep them from blowing up cannons. It could have gone wrong is so many ways, though, so they definitely don't need to be stronger.
Anyways, going to try out animal swarming for fun :D
Two things:
1. Why are hydroponics "PassThroughOnly"? It makes no sense to me, because when sowing the pawns walk over them anyway, there isn't really an abuse case for this. It just makes it quite tedious to micromanage something around them.
2. Tree Sowing with 4000 work is pretty decent. I tested it now and it feels like it takes some time, but not as horrendously much as right now. I didn't test 6000 work yet. But I can say 12000 work just leads me to never sowing trees ever for anything.
Neat side effect of animal training decay.
If a bonded animal reverts to the wild due to training decay, the animal is no longer bonded to the owner. You can then hunt it without repercussions.
Tbh, restriction of growing trees in greenhouses already made getting wood for making art problematic enough, so there was absolutely no need to further slow it down, by multiplying sowing work amount by 5. Unless you play year-round growing maps you can't really grow that much wood yourself. And with such huge work amount no one would even bother, since they grow slow and winter just multiplies grow times by two (i always play 30\30 maps with -10 C winters, since i like seasonal transition).
At least we got source of stone blocks for art to compensate by using deep drills. On that topic - i second the suggestion of making various map places yield different kinds of stone. It would be really nice to have different kinds of stone, for both aesthetic and practical reasons.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 13, 2018, 05:53:10 PM
2. Tree Sowing with 4000 work is pretty decent. I tested it now and it feels like it takes some time, but not as horrendously much as right now. I didn't test 6000 work yet. But I can say 12000 work just leads me to never sowing trees ever for anything.
I'm not a terribly experienced player but I can second this. I used to almost always plant at least a small patch of trees quite close to the colony. However, I did this once after the sowing update and oh boy that was not worth it. Now I don't even bother researching Tree Sowing.
My second thought: I like the slower research changes. Before, some of the earlier research didn't feel worth it. Simply rushing higher tier research just seemed a better option. With larger differences in research time and slowing down the time it takes to run down the research tree, it now feels like researching some of the lower techs is more rewarding.
Isn't the doomsday rocket launcher a little underpowered?
I had a big infestation next to my base 100+ insects and tried to get rid of it by using the doomsday rocket launcher, but all i got was a few bruises and shreds on the insects and my colony killed, the area of the explosion was huge, but I found the damage lacking for a weapon called "Doomsday"
Holy crap, now its 100+ bugs. Wow. I am curious on how much wealth and people did you have and what difficulty was it.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 13, 2018, 06:33:18 PM
Holy crap, now its 100+ bugs. Wow. I am curious on how much wealth and people did you have and what difficulty was it.
Oh! It didn't start with 100+, started with around 30 ish maximum 40, but i postponed it at the time because i had half my "soldiers" in a caravan, and when they got home 4 days later it had almost doubled in size :P
My colony wasn't that big, it was during its third year with just 14 colonists 148000 wealth total, hard difficulty
Quote from: Rellik on July 13, 2018, 06:30:09 PM
Isn't the doomsday rocket launcher a little underpowered?
I had a big infestation next to my base 100+ insects and tried to get rid of it by using the doomsday rocket launcher, but all i got was a few bruises and shreds on the insects and my colony killed, the area of the explosion was huge, but I found the damage lacking for a weapon called "Doomsday"
IKR
I have been spamming this thread with almost the exact same complain.
The megaspiders are too OP.
Almost 2 times faster than people
Extremely bullet and explosion resistant.
Insane safe temperature limits.
If they are going to have such an impressive armor, shouldnt they be the slowest insect?
Erm.. When was the last time you looked at a Megaspider's stats?
Humans move at 4.61/s
Megaspiders move at 4.25/s
They have 27% sharp and 18% blunt resist - This is.. pretty mediocre.
A Normal Heavy Fur Duster for example is 37% sharp resist.
A shotgun has 14% Ap and shotguns are garbage at dealing with armor.
Their shells have 75 health (Human torsos have 40) which is moderately tough but megaspiders also have significantly fewer body parts so the chance of hitting the Shell is 28% compared to the Torso's 19%.
They're just not THAT tough.
It would be nice if chocolate didn't literally grow on trees, but that you just get beans and you need to cook them into chocolate. I know that's leaving out some steps, but plenty of things are simplified in this game.
What about the true and tested method of walling them in and throwing a molotov at them ?
In one of my first 1.0 tribal colonies I set up shop in a cavesystem. I managed to clear out the previous inhabitants but got a infestation half a year later.
I had no real research going at this time and no raiders to supply me with some decent weapons.
So I send out a one person caravan to a nearby village and bought a molotov coktail. The rest of my people reinforced the perimeter with stone walls.
3 days later I burned the hives down and the crawlies died in the heat.
The second smartest thing I did with that caravan was buing an EMP grenade.
Naked Brutality run on 1694 -- made it to day 34. Pirate raid comes in with two machine pistols and a couple revolvers. Things are going fine until one both of the machine pistol guys go god mode at the same time: on one side of my base a pirate shoots a machine pistol down a hallway and simultaneously hits two colonists hiding behind doors on different sides of the hallway in the torso. That's one effective volley.
On the other side of my base pirate two starts firing his machine pistol, and despite having a 4% hit chance, proceeds to hit my colonist multiple times in a row. And my colonist of course misses every shot.
Possible bug: one pirate ran straight up to a doorway and started punching a colonist -- colonist did not attempt to fight back in any way, just sat there and took punches until he went down (I thought he was fighting back, but no).
Too bad, I was hoping to try to tame the wild man that had wandered in a few days before. Next time.
This fellow here died immediately upon receiving an infection, I am pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I sold an animal to an orbital trader and it later appeared as a wild animal again on my map. Intended?
Quote from: Boboid on July 13, 2018, 07:11:39 PM
Erm.. When was the last time you looked at a Megaspider's stats?
Humans move at 4.61/s
Megaspiders move at 4.25/s
They have 27% sharp and 18% blunt resist - This is.. pretty mediocre.
A Normal Heavy Fur Duster for example is 37% sharp resist.
A shotgun has 14% Ap and shotguns are garbage at dealing with armor.
Their shells have 75 health (Human torsos have 40) which is moderately tough but megaspiders also have significantly fewer body parts so the chance of hitting the Shell is 28% compared to the Torso's 19%.
They're just not THAT tough.
Thats for unarmored colonists. Armored ones are around 2.5-3.5 /s. Guess "twice" was exagerated on my part.
I dont know which particular armor stat could be letting them survive so much shots, but try to spawn and kill them and you will see they are way harder to kill than in B18. It definitely has something to do with the new rework on bullets.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 12, 2018, 11:37:31 PM
I just did a test spawning 10 megaspiders and shooting them with a doomsday launcher.
Only one was killed, not a single one downed besides taht one.
The one that died had no missing parts or vital organs destroyed, so it was one of those cases in which an enemy dies out of no displayed reason.
Luck, in other words.
Are they meant to be this strong? Test was done on Hard.
And about explosions, i dont know if its the armor's or the rocket's fault, but this should not be happening even on extreme difficulty...
Just posted to say that I agree on the change to tree sowing. I used to do Boreal, Arid or Temperate Forest maps, I had to cut out Arid because when I tried to plant a field of trees, it took so long to get them all in the ground that it wasn't worth it, whatsoever and now I don't bother with even researching it. It's no longer viable and I refuse to touch any maps that don't naturally have trees.
I never had any pet peeve during the previous versions that just struck me as much as tortoises deflecting firearm bullets. Not even close. I could understand if the SHELL deflected it (though its bone, not metal), but no, the entire tortoise has the armor of the entire shell, which makes zero sense. It does on rhinos and megaspiders, for instance, so i'd say its okay in those scenarios.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 13, 2018, 07:42:10 PM
Thats for unarmored colonists. Armored ones are around 2.5-3.5 /s. Guess "twice" was exagerated on my part.
Okay.. a pawn in Power Armor moves at 4.21
A pawn in Plate Armor moves at 3.81
Bionics and drugs exist too, just a reminder.
Quote
I dont know which particular armor stat could be letting them survive so much shots, but try to spawn and kill them and you will see they are way harder to kill than in B18. It definitely has something to do with the new rework on bullets.
I mean.. there's only three relevant factors and I covered them all. Sharp Armor, Blunt Armor, and Health. Four if you count body part number.
I've killed the living shit out of megaspiders - https://imgur.com/a/HZrBor3
Post Battle: https://imgur.com/a/2y3OvyU
They're reasonably tough but.. They're nothing like you describe and I think you'd benefit from having a quick look at the armor description to get a full idea of what would be most effective vs them.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 12, 2018, 11:37:31 PM
I just did a test spawning 10 megaspiders and shooting them with a doomsday launcher.
Only one was killed, not a single one downed besides taht one.
The one that died had no missing parts or vital organs destroyed, so it was one of those cases in which an enemy dies out of no displayed reason.
Luck, in other words.
Are they meant to be this strong? Test was done on Hard.
It's true that explosions aren't particularly deadly currently. That's not a terrible thing though.
Each of a Doomsday launcher's explosions is about as powerful as a hand grenade (Albeit one with a gigantic area of effect, and each doomsday rocket explosion can overlap potentially doing considerably more damage) They're not really designed to gib anything they're fired at (Although they're more than capable of killing a human) they're more designed to cause lots of damage to LOTS of things across a large area.
You probably don't want to live in a world where a Doomsday launcher is capable of killing a megaspider. That almost certainly means it's capable of gibbing a human.
They'll quite effectively soften a large group of enemies - though perhaps not centipedes.
If you want to gib infestations with explosions you should consider using an Antigrain warhead - Though do remember the old adage " Front Towards Enemy "
Edit: By the way - The reason that megaspider died is because it was past its Pain or Movement threshold. In other words: It was downed.
It technically rolled unluckily in that it died instead of simply being downed but.. the difference is so small it's barely worth mentioning.
The doomsday launcher did however kill it any way you look at it.
I don't know if this has been reported yet, since it really isn't a bug but more of a visual issue.
(https://i.imgur.com/mSpa2G4.png)
This happened with the cable visuals before, but since they didn't stand out as much before it wasn't that big of a deal. The new visuals make this issue pop out a lot more and just looks jarring. Something to make it smooth into the structure instead of connecting the invisible wires on it would be nice.
Quote from: isRyan on July 13, 2018, 07:38:02 PM
This fellow here died immediately upon receiving an infection, I am pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen.
Are you sure the infection killed him?
Maybe the extreme blood loss did him in and acquiring an infection just before hand was coincidental?
Latest run through. Tribal, temp forest, large hills, large river, Cassandra rough. Permadeath.
Started building close to the river again to try it's defense again. All in all things went smoothly. Only two hiccups was due to caravaning. I got a quest for a techprof sub persona core and as I had just got machining researched I decided to get it so I could research microelectronics instantly. I sent 3 ranged and 1 melee on the trip leaving the 3 ranged and a melee in base. This was when I forgot the one of the people on the caravan and one in base were both having psychite withdrawal thanks to chemical interest and a raider junky stash. Now I have two drug addicts going on repeated mental breaks. At the bandit camp things went a little badly and one pawn got downed. Meanwhile back at base soon enough a raid occurred which downed another of my colonists due me not paying enough attention and messing things up.
After a while with the base I felt i lacked room so expanded over the river to wall of an area for water mills and to act as stoor rooms. When I got my power going I found out you cannot build bridges over waterproof cable. This means I have to mine and rebuild things so I can have a full sized store room. Not sure why waterproof cable is like that, it would make sense if you could place a bridge over it.
I opened the ancient danger again this time preparing ahead of time with a trap tunnel and things went far better no one downed or badly injured. 4 scythers, 2 lancers and a centipede were inside, they did not seem to want to leave the ancient danger much the centipede refusing to move outside it at all. Seems ancient dangers are nasty again.
Once again taking prisoners is hard as everyone is dying. I think overall i had 3 or 4 go down and I recruited one of those (the other one I remember downing was a pyro so I released him)
Just before posting I had an escape pod event land in the river where they stood up, bandaged themselves and wandered off. Not sure if escape pod pawns should self tend.
I didn't have many world events to do, only did one caravan, they seemed very sparse this run. One bandit camp, one item stash and 3 peace talks (a few caravan request about 3 none were worth doing or were over impassable mountains).
Across all fights and raids I had zero deaths and 3 downs. Enemies love trying to burn my crops and go through the same way every raid. Played permadeath so no one thinks I saved scummed so hopefully my report is valid now. Normally I don't do permadeath due to saves getting corrupted on me in the past.
I'm going to continue playing and try out the turrets not yet seen how effective they are.
[attachment deleted due to age]
A pawn of 2-man caravan got plague on the road. Why was he carried? He was not unconcious or in pain-shock or any downed status, and he was already tended. This made the 2 days journey turned into 13 days.
So I tried to bring them back to colony, but then they got ambushed by huskies. The plagued pawn even could still shoot. However, huskies won, caravan lost, just because travel time needed to get back to base insanely increased to 2 days which only to take few hours to leave.
Quote from: Tass237 on July 13, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
I'm pretty sure that peg legs for animals were removed because it was too easy to gain Medical experience that way. Maybe if peg legs for animals came back, but didn't give Medical experience...
Why? Training medical skill on animals before humans is exactly how it is done IRL.
Rescued pawns from other factions never try to dodge or flee from raiders they find on their way to the edge of the map. Figured its time to solve this already...
Bug spawned sound can be heard anywhere on the map, not just when the camera is looking at the insects. Not sure if this is intended...
Quote from: rizurper on July 13, 2018, 10:39:34 PM
A pawn of 2-man caravan got plague on the road. Why was he carried? He was not unconcious or in pain-shock or any downed status, and he was already tended. This made the 2 days journey turned into 13 days.
So I tried to bring them back to colony, but then they got ambushed by huskies. The plagued pawn even could still shoot. However, huskies won, caravan lost, just because travel time needed to get back to base insanely increased to 2 days which only to take few hours to leave.
You can disable carry-sick in the caravan health tab.
We should make this clearer.
So I read somewhere that infestations won't happen if your rooms are less than 16 tiles.
So I make my big strip mine a series of 4x3 rooms.
(http://pulpaudio.com/rimworld/rimworld_tinyinfestation.jpg)
Yeah that was changed recently to 2 tiles. Good luck ;)
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 13, 2018, 11:56:10 PM
So I read somewhere that infestations won't happen if your rooms are less than 16 tiles.
So I make my big strip mine a series of 4x3 rooms.
(http://pulpaudio.com/rimworld/rimworld_tinyinfestation.jpg)
I think I read in one of the change logs that it was now a 2 x 2.
I'll just leave this here.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Is it possible to get the predator message alert a bit earlier ? i usually get the message when the predator is already on my pawn ...
Quote from: NagashUD on July 14, 2018, 12:17:52 AM
Is it possible to get the predator message alert a bit earlier ? i usually get the message when the predator is already on my pawn ...
If i am not wrong, it should warn you when predator is in 60 tiles away now. The only exception is if some predator that was standing literally near your guy when he decided he's hungry. Then you get immediate alert. Well if the target is not armored and has ranged weapon your guy is usually a toast anyway in that case.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 11:36:56 PM
You can disable carry-sick in the caravan health tab.
We should make this clearer.
Thanks. I didn't notice that.
Should caravan decides automatically the fastest way of travel whether to carry sick pawn or let them walk? For example, when a caravan has sick pawn walking takes 4 days to destination, but when carried it takes 3 days, so the caravan decides to carried the sick. I think this's more convenient, and less micro.
Animals from trader caravans are still stealing your food when hungry.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 12:41:27 AM
Animals from trader caravans are still stealing your food when hungry.
...that the caravan just sold you and dropped on the ground at the edge of your colony because somehow someone could cheat the system by telling them to congregate somewhere nearer to your freezer.
Serious issue here.
Refugees escaping from pirates are still arriving with extremely low walk speeds sometimes.
This makes it impossible to save them. People who arrives to the colony by outrunning raiders by who knows how much time should be fit for such a stunt...
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 14, 2018, 01:54:53 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 12:41:27 AM
Animals from trader caravans are still stealing your food when hungry.
...that the caravan just sold you and dropped on the ground at the edge of your colony because somehow someone could cheat the system by telling them to congregate somewhere nearer to your freezer.
Usually, they are hanging in my sleeping quarters, stacking "disturbed sleep" to max level.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 14, 2018, 02:08:03 AM
Serious issue here.
Refugees escaping from pirates are still arriving with extremely low walk speeds sometimes.
This makes it impossible to save them. People who arrives to the colony by outrunning raiders by who knows how much time should be fit for such a stunt...
It feels like pawns have something like 75% chance to spawn with a scar.
You are given a warning as to their age, anyone middle aged is risky, old is not worth bothering.
2 things:
1) It's probably just Randy Extreme being Randy Extreme, but... 4 raids and the plague in 2 days? (siege+plague, tribal sapper raid, seige, drop pods). I'm a bit perplexed I managed to survive all four, given how early in the game it is (I still only had the starter weapons when the first raid arrived.. I had to bum rush two shotgunners with knives and alpacas, that was pretty scary.) Even my squirrel has PTSD now, having downed an attacker...
2) Since the last update (build 1964) I've been getting an error in HistoryAutoRecorder on every tick. It's probably just an incompatible save version. I noticed the 'debug' graph doesn't populate.
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/964217986227124901/F507600B82FDB05C88138001D2DFEBC3767C0E64/)
Quote from: dogthinker on July 14, 2018, 03:04:59 AM
1) It's probably just Randy Extreme being Randy Extreme, but... 4 raids and the plague in 2 days? (siege+plague, tribal sapper raid, seige, drop pods). I'm a bit perplexed I managed to survive all four, given how early in the game it is (I still only had the starter weapons when the first raid arrived.. I had to bum rush two shotgunners with knives and alpacas, that was pretty scary.) Even my squirrel has PTSD now, having downed an attacker...
That is definitely randy having fun with you. 8)
Edit: Some dudes just ate human kibble when meals ran out and there was corn available. Needless to say, they weren't happy.
Quote from: Greep on July 14, 2018, 02:25:57 AM
You are given a warning as to their age, anyone middle aged is risky, old is not worth bothering.
And young tend to have neither skills nor passions.
Wanderer joins... Why we can't reject them again? Now I've got mood penalty, just what I need with the overpowered psychic drone.
[attachment deleted due to age]
QoL thing:
Can the ground type (Soil etc.) be displayed even in the architect tab? It's sometimes quite hard to easily tell where rich soil is etc. and when designating growing zones or even planning buildings it would be helpful to see. I suggest moving the left-hand white text above the architect window temporarily (and therefore shrinking the inventory display area temporarily).
Also, this has probably already been suggested, but could we eventually have a DF-style planet searcher for characteristics (river, coastal, biome type, growing period, rock types). It's easy to find a tile that satisfies some of these, but if you want multiple it takes a long time to search them (especially for desired rock type, which isn't visible on the map).
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 03:38:28 AM
And young tend to have neither skills nor passions.
Wanderer joins... Why we can't reject them again? Now I've got mood penalty, just what I need with the overpowered psychic drone.
This particular wanderer might as well just join graveyard instead of your colony. Its ridiculous how game just keep sending trash pawns your way.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 14, 2018, 04:47:35 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 03:38:28 AM
And young tend to have neither skills nor passions.
Wanderer joins... Why we can't reject them again? Now I've got mood penalty, just what I need with the overpowered psychic drone.
This particular wanderer might as well just join graveyard instead of your colony. Its ridiculous how game just keep sending trash pawns your way.
Simply calling something "ridicuous" is no better than "atrocious". This isn't usable feedback, it's just venting, which is prohibited here by rule 2. You're welcome to criticize but please say something meaningful, actionable, discussable.
As for the point, handling flawed useless people is part of the game. RimWorld is not intended to be an RTS. If you want a game where every unit is a fungible optimized robot, there are some great RTSs I can recommend. However, if you want a game with dynamic characters and generated story, that means some of the characters will be more useful than others, and some will be worse than useless, just as people are in stories. It means many of the problems you face will come from inside your group, not outside, just as in stories. In truth I'd like to turn RW more in this direction, because as we've discussed here, external attacks are still far too big a part of the game. There average pawn in this game really should be worse than they are, and many more should be entirely useless (and I mean actually useless, not, "he can only research and art" useless).
Quote from: dogthinker on July 14, 2018, 03:04:59 AM
2) Since the last update (build 1964) I've been getting an error in HistoryAutoRecorder on every tick. It's probably just an incompatible save version. I noticed the 'debug' graph doesn't populate.
If you update to latest and reload this should stop. A version with this bug was up for about 6 hours but was fixed 18 hours ago.
So I was wondering - while definitely annoying, what's up with the tree sowing change? What was the idea behind it?
Also is it a bug that a sold animal can wander in from the map edge (you see the name you gave it in blue, like if tameness has decayed)?
Internal attacks, hmm. Like a powder keg with a long fuse just waiting to explode.
Reminds me of the times when I had social fights at the most inopportune times before a raid leaving two guys heavily crippled. Or the times when I had colonists being stoned on smokeleaf making them useless in a fight. (Also brings me to forbid smokeleaf from being a social drug :P)
Something that truly would bring drama would be to have a would be colonist "sell out" your colony by sabotaging doors and turrets quietly before a raid. Or poisoning the food in the colony leaving all your colonists with food poisoning. A helluva drama that. Also spreading catty rumors making your colonists hate each other :P.
Edit: Also why not have a event where you get a trader event only for it be uncovered as being pirates when you send out a negotiator? Two choices, your negotiator or your stuff!
I like to have useless trash pawns from random join events, because at least I can use them as disposable melee defenders.(Pacifist trash pawns are truly terrible, though)
Having melee warriors is much important in 1.0, so they can be useful.
And even if they died from combat, I won't feel remorse or regret because they are useless at other things. So it's good for my emotion, too. ;D
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 05:06:14 AM
It means many of the problems you face will come from inside your group, not outside, just as in stories. In truth I'd like to turn RW more in this direction, because as we've discussed here, external attacks are still far too big a part of the game. There average pawn in this game really should be worse than they are, and many more should be entirely useless (and I mean actually useless, not, "he can only research and art" useless).
Thats really sad, from where i stand. I like story aspect of RW, but in no way i want it to be its central aspect. I still want it to remain largely a colony manager sim, with a bit of strategy\tactics thrown in, not a nursery and disability center manager. I
really hope pawns won't ever get even more useless than they are already (though that would be quite an achievement), without even counting constant bickering about sometimes absolutely illogical things.
As for useful feedback in short - most refugee quests, wanderer joins event and chased refugee raid types, really need a solid buff in what kind of pawns they generate. Quests and hugely inflated raids especially since its often not easy to accomplish and as a reward you get yet another liability, that can't haul, volatile and also insults everyone it sees to boot. Or it has a solid bucket of health issues and only good as grave filler.
I don't mean to offend, but i tend to call things exactly as they are. So if i call some mechanic "atrocious" or situation where out of 5 pawns you get 4 with severe health or psychological issues - ridiculous - its what i think about it, not a jab at you, or the game as a whole. I like some things about the game and i don't like others. And also tend to say why. In this example situation - its because such commonality of disabled people feels beyond artificial.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 05:06:14 AM
Simply calling something "ridicuous" is no better than "atrocious". This isn't usable feedback, it's just venting, which is prohibited here by rule 2. You're welcome to criticize but please say something meaningful, actionable, discussable.
It is unfun mechanics that angers people. You can prohibit telling about it as much as you want, it won't make people like it. In fact, it would only anger them more. If the knowledge that things you do anger people is not a meaningful feedback, I don't know what is. If you want it to be a story generator, that is as much of a feedback as you can ever get - the story is evaluated by emotion it causes. Prohibiting telling about your emotions makes no sense, except one case - you want only to allow positive feedback.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 05:06:14 AM
As for the point, handling flawed useless people is part of the game. RimWorld is not intended to be an RTS.
This game is advertised as "a sci-fi colony sim." Not an asylum for disabled people.
I mean do you still not find it strange that sooo many people ask to see the stats on wanderers, chased refugees and quest refugees? Its because I am not nearly the only one, who doesn't want to face a double sized raids only to save a pacifist pyromaniac, that can't do dumb labor and refuses to fight fires (because obviously).
I think tree sowing time change is not good.
It's terribly long, and even pawns with high Plants skill will take long.
Honestly, it only made living in biomes with almost no trees annoying.
I was also thinking, why pine trees can't grow in cold temperature at all?
I thought they can grow in places with cold temperature.(like Russia or Canada)
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 05:14:38 AM
Quote from: dogthinker on July 14, 2018, 03:04:59 AM
2) Since the last update (build 1964) I've been getting an error in HistoryAutoRecorder on every tick. It's probably just an incompatible save version. I noticed the 'debug' graph doesn't populate.
If you update to latest and reload this should stop. A version with this bug was up for about 6 hours but was fixed 18 hours ago.
I deleted the files and reinstalled it again. Still, 1.0.1964 rev8, with the problem. The update probably just hasn't made it to the Steam servers in my region though, or something like that.
Other feedback:
All melee raids seem (far) too easy to defend against (3 melee in a doorway + 3 shotguns or machine pistols immediately behind them. The enemy have to come in one by one, so you can literally hold off scores of attacker, as you're effctively fighting a series of 6v1 fights.) The only real drawback to defending like this that it makes you extremely vulnerable to ranged fire. I think it was a bit better when these types of mono-battles were less common. Alternatively, if the melee pawn AI was a bit smarter about attacking other nearby doors/walls to get a flank on the defenders, when they're getting blocked by a crowd of their own people, that would probably tone down the effectiveness of this tactic a bit.
As you can see from my prior screenshot, my colony has almost no fixed defenses, but just five poorly equipped colonists have now beaten 5(!) raids in a couple of days - around 40 attackers (plus a mass jailbreak, plus plague.) This colony really ought to be dead, but it's actually only cost them one eye, one finger, and one noble squirrel (a monument will be raised!)
On the other topic of the moment - useless pawns. I'm gonna agree with Tynan on this one. I think my most memorable, emotional, playthroughs were the ones which carried some dead weight. The one where I landed with a senile grandma and grandpa as two of the three survivors. The one with the depressive alcoholic teenager that basically never left his room. The one where my colony went into a death spiral because I couldn't bring myself to butcher the herd of cats that self tamed, even though the colony was already on starvation rations. :-\
I love this game ;D
Quote from: dogthinker on July 14, 2018, 06:07:59 AM
On the other topic of the moment - useless pawns. I'm gonna agree with Tynan on this one. I think my most memorable, emotional, playthroughs were the ones which carried some dead weight. The one where I landed with a senile grandma and grandpa as two of the three survivors. The one with the depressive alcoholic teenager that basically never left his room. The one where my colony went into a death spiral because I couldn't bring myself to butcher the herd of cats that self tamed, even though the colony was already on starvation rations. :-\
I love this game ;D
And still the game is actively punishing you for doing anything sentimental. I was trying to play like this, and it always was painful. Now I am indifferently butchering joined yorkies, harvesting prisoners and exiling useless pawns before they kill the colony. Who cares, it's a rimworld, where everyone is expendable by design. I don't care for their stories, they are just functions. They work or they are utilized. I won't take a flawed pawn, they only make me weaker, and everything already wants me dead.
While its nowhere near as extreme for me, i also never really bother with keeping uselessness. (only cats, because they're justice, i can only sell them, pretending to find them good owners). I can cope with some bad traits if the guy has burning passion for a skill i badly need (read mostly medicine). I can cope with scars and addiction, if i see the guy can't do crap, but for example has decent shooting with passions and can clean (warrior-janitors are always needed). Otherwise i just don't ever do refugee quests and chases, because it always end up trolling me by giving someone beyond redemption.
Some pawns should be useless or even downright harmful, i agree, its a part of the game. But some. Not most. As it stands most pawns i get from quests\chases\wanderers turn out to be a liability, not a helping hand for the colony. Best chance to get a decent guy is to recruit a raider. But instead of buffing pawn generation for quests and wanderers, to be on par with raider recruitment, we see reduced raider survival chance to force player to go after refugees to generate more drama (at least after a while it was changed to depend on difficulty and your population already present).
Quote from: Madman666 on July 14, 2018, 06:29:47 AM
While its nowhere near as extreme for me
Believe me, it is only a matter of time. When you understand that everything is ruled by Deus Angst Machina (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeusAngstMachina) you can't care anymore.
One could argue that calling an entire playstyle "terrible" isn't very constructive or actionable either, tbh. Personally, I felt like a better way to address that topic would have been "I know that's not how I would play the game, but why do you guys save-scum?" That way, you don't shut down people who choose to play the way they want to, and we can maybe get some perspective behind why people choose to save scum.
But that's besides the point. Tynan, I get where you're coming from, being dead set on your particular vision for this game. You've poured 5 years and many hours of your time into developing this game so far. But I feel like many games have room to evolve and grow beyond the original scope that the creators envisioned. For example, in the earlier installments of Fire Emblem, permadeath was the only option to play with. Whenever you lost a unit in battle, they were gone forever. Any level-ups, skill points, etc that you spent on them would be gone in an instant. However, the newer games allow you to turn permadeath off, so your units come back to you even if they go down in battle. To be perfectly honest, I don't think I could have gotten into Awakening had there not been an option for a more casual playstyle. But by allowing me the choice, I was able to comfortably recommend it to my two friends (who were even more casual gamers than I was). Today, we're all loyal Fire Emblem fans, eagerly waiting for the newest games to come out.
It's clear that the original Fire Emblem games were also designed to be based around losing your units and making the best of it. But by allowing a more casual audience to enjoy the games alongside the more hardcore veterans, a game that was on the brink of outright cancellation has since received many new entries, including a wildly popular mobile game and some spinoffs.
Of course, I'm not just referring to the permadeath mechanic, but I'd also like to mention that different people have different expectations of what they'd like out of their game. Some come in wanting a good story to tell their friends. Some want just to defend their base to the best of their ability with a carefully selected group of pawns. Others still just simply want to build the most expansive base that the game would allow. I feel like it would benefit both sides of the coin (you and the players) if you took the time to listen to their concerns.
I appreciate the time and effort you've put into this game so far. I sincerely thank you for delivering an amazing product so far, but I feel like it still has the potential to grow.
Perhaps build a cycle into the game that rewards the colony's ability to sustain its weaker members, such that keeping them going becomes an end in itself.
Another meter, 'humanity'. Lose it for murdering, for witnessing death and harm. Regain it collectively as the colony performs compassionate acts. Tending wounded. Freeing prisoners. Talking to the infirm. Feeding small fuzzy animals. Or just wrap that into Mood directly somehow. The social chats are a step in that direction.
Quote from: dogthinker on July 14, 2018, 06:07:59 AM
On the other topic of the moment - useless pawns. I'm gonna agree with Tynan on this one. I think my most memorable, emotional, playthroughs were the ones which carried some dead weight. The one where I landed with a senile grandma and grandpa as two of the three survivors. The one with the depressive alcoholic teenager that basically never left his room. The one where my colony went into a death spiral because I couldn't bring myself to butcher the herd of cats that self tamed, even though the colony was already on starvation rations. :-\
I've had some memorable moments with useless pawns too. A while back, I built a ship specifically for this old female with health problems similar to the picture posted earlier, except she was capable. The frequency of them is an issue to me tho, incapable of violence being a big one since IT IS common. If such pawns were rare, then I would most likely accept them, now I let them bleed out. It's also a shame that anytime I see impressive stats, I instantly look at their age and health and sure enough something is ALWAYS there. Pawns leveling up faster in this update makes me care for them a little more. I don't need the best pawns, but pawns incapable do cause annoyances since they can also be hard to keep track of. For example; Clicking on three different pawns to cut blighted plants but they can't since they're incapable. (happened in my last game) happens all the time with minor tasks when you micromanage.
Well, my whole purpose in making this thread and going through the 177 pages of it is to listen to player's concerns.
At the same time, we should realize that different people have different preferences. RimWorld's design goal as a story generator may not be exactly what a given individual player personally prefers, but that's okay.
It may seem there's a really obvious change that would make the game better for you. So it seems "ridiculous" not to do it, from that perspective. But considering the desires of all the players together, others may really have different preferences, and what seems straightforwardly good to you may seem "ridiculous" to them. This is why I ask people to say a bit more than declaring some part of the game "ridiculous" or "atrocious" without further information; if I can understand the expectation/perception/impulse that creates this response I can integrate it into all the other preferences and impulses and expectations flowing through the community and try to find a design path that maximizes benefit overall (but still won't please everyone).
I have always set a goal of trying to make the game flexible by opening it up to different play styles - this is why we have, for example, game modes varying from Peaceful to Extreme, biomes from sea ice to temperate forest, etc. So I'd love to do things that open up new play styles.
What I don't want to do is fall into the trap of trying to please everyone.
I also want to avoid is things that make the game more similar to other existing games. Specifically moving it towards being Civilization (e.g. conquer-the-world mechanics) or StarCraft (e.g. robot-like perfect slave units) are both directions I avoid because there are already great games in those fields. They're established genres and those play patterns are burned into the brains of millions of players, so people often make suggestions in that direction, but I think it's critical not to drift that way and lose the distinctiveness that's made RW successful.
RW is an unusual game. As a story generator, it's something designers talk about a lot but there's very few serious attempts at making such a game. Most which seem similar become builder games or fighting strategy games. This great weight of expectation does have an effect; it's something I try to compensate for very carefully.
QuoteAs it stands most pawns i get from quests\chases\wanderers turn out to be a liability, not a helping hand for the colony.
If this is objectively true something's bugged; I've run Monte Carlo sampled tests and the great majority of pawns are reasonably useful at a few tasks. I'm pretty sure what you wrote here isn't the consensus of players in general. Streamers I see tend to want to recruit about 50%-80%, but it varies.
Quote from: dogthinker on July 14, 2018, 06:55:32 AM
Perhaps build a cycle into the game that rewards the colony's ability to sustain its weaker members, such that keeping them going becomes an end in itself.
Another meter, 'humanity'. Lose it for murdering, for witnessing death and harm. Regain it collectively as the colony performs compassionate acts. Tending wounded. Freeing prisoners. Talking to the infirm. Feeding small fuzzy animals. Or just wrap that into Mood directly somehow. The social chats are a step in that direction.
This is the existing design; there's mood penaties for things like banishing or executing your own colonists, especially if they have relationships. We could push this aspect harder and design more around this, but it's just a matter of development time, really.
----
Anyway, let's please move on from the meta-discussion. This thread is for discussing
play experiences with the 1.0 unstable build.
The Social penalties for doing immoral actions should be made more severe, Tynan. Right now, killing someones friend, butchering them and *eating them* is all not as bad as being a little ugly. Even in a place like the Rimworld thats very illogical.
If doing all those 3 would cause atleast -40 in colony-relation, this would make having psychopathes also be a possible hazard of them being seen as an outcast, then the 'Human hat factory' money meta will become a little less preferable.
Quote from: alfons100 on July 14, 2018, 07:25:27 AM
The Social penalties for doing immoral actions should be made more severe, Tynan. Right now, killing someones friend, butchering them and *eating them* is all not as bad as being a little ugly. Even in a place like the Rimworld thats very illogical.
If doing all those 3 would cause atleast -40 in colony-relation, this would make having psychopathes also be a possible hazard of them being seen as an outcast, then the 'Human hat factory' money meta will become a little less preferable.
It's a good point, I should review the balance of the opinion system, it's been a while since it saw some love.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
Anyway, let's please move on from the meta-discussion. This thread is for discussing play experiences with the 1.0 unstable build, not open-ended suggestions or ideas for major direction changes in the game. Off-topic posts may be removed.
It is caused by 1.0 experience directly. Changes in this build made the game more punishing for taking non-optimal decisions. Can't really tell for current build (made a new game and only played a year after reworking the ramp-up), and so far it is okay (2:1 from latest raids is fine by me), but I have to be pressed hard to take a take a pawn with major health issues or without a passion for combat, and should be truly desperate to take non-violent one. Late game raids are way too hard to afford to have pawns who can't fight well.
You are trying to make it a story generator, but you are achieving the opposite - the less you are attached the better it is played. Being merciless, manipulative asshole pays off greatly.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 07:36:58 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
Anyway, let's please move on from the meta-discussion. This thread is for discussing play experiences with the 1.0 unstable build, not open-ended suggestions or ideas for major direction changes in the game. Off-topic posts may be removed.
It is caused by 1.0 experience directly. Changes in this build made the game more punishing for taking non-optimal decisions. Can't really tell for current build (made a new game and only played a year after reworking the ramp-up), and so far it is okay (2:1 from latest raids is fine by me), but I have to be pressed hard to take a take a pawn with major health issues or without a passion for combat, and should be truly desperate to take non-violent one. Late game raids are way too hard to afford to have pawns who can't fight well.
You are trying to make it a story generator, but you are achieving the opposite - the less you are attached the better it is played. Being merciless, manipulative asshole pays off greatly.
Which difficulty is this specifically?
Generally, if you want breathing space to play around with story stuff you should play Medium or maybe Rough. The harder modes are designed to punish non-optimal play; there's no way to have a hard difficulty that also allows free role-play since hard inherently demands an optimal response to each situation, thus removing freedom.
I've tried lots of things to try to nudge players towards the appropriate difficulty for their play goals but it seems to be a really hard problem. I've got some ideas for doing this better, though.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 14, 2018, 12:23:49 AM
Quote from: NagashUD on July 14, 2018, 12:17:52 AM
Is it possible to get the predator message alert a bit earlier ? i usually get the message when the predator is already on my pawn ...
If i am not wrong, it should warn you when predator is in 60 tiles away now. The only exception is if some predator that was standing literally near your guy when he decided he's hungry. Then you get immediate alert. Well if the target is not armored and has ranged weapon your guy is usually a toast anyway in that case.
Hmmm well, i don't know for the 60 tiles, i only got the messages way too late; so maybe it's just bad luck :/
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:39:59 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 07:36:58 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
Anyway, let's please move on from the meta-discussion. This thread is for discussing play experiences with the 1.0 unstable build, not open-ended suggestions or ideas for major direction changes in the game. Off-topic posts may be removed.
It is caused by 1.0 experience directly. Changes in this build made the game more punishing for taking non-optimal decisions. Can't really tell for current build (made a new game and only played a year after reworking the ramp-up), and so far it is okay (2:1 from latest raids is fine by me), but I have to be pressed hard to take a take a pawn with major health issues or without a passion for combat, and should be truly desperate to take non-violent one. Late game raids are way too hard to afford to have pawns who can't fight well.
You are trying to make it a story generator, but you are achieving the opposite - the less you are attached the better it is played. Being merciless, manipulative asshole pays off greatly.
Which difficulty is this specifically?
Generally, if you want breathing space to play around with story stuff you should play Medium or maybe Rough. The harder modes are designed to punish non-optimal play; there's no way to have a hard difficulty that also allows free role-play since hard inherently demands an optimal response to each situation, thus removing freedom.
I've tried lots of things to try to nudge players towards the appropriate difficulty for their play goals but it seems to be a really hard problem. I've got some ideas for doing this better, though.
Medium. Note, that I've played on "Intense" before 1.0. The problem is not in difficulty but in core design. On medium I'll get 40 scythers falling on my head bypassing all possible defences, on hard I'll get 60. It doesn't matter. The problem is not in number, but in "bypassing all possible defenses" part. And even more straight up raids - there is a point when you WILL be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. On lower difficulties, it would be later, but it would be. The game has, by design, more offense than you can possibly have defence. And 1.0 is progressively stripping player of any defensive tactics. The game is, let's admit it, cheating. Almost all mechanics punishing player has no effect on enemies. And when you are losing against cheater - it's not a good story. It's okay to be challenged. It's okay to be punished for mistakes. It's okay to take losses for your incompetence. But playing rimworld is like playing chess with a pigeon. It knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and claims victory.
Quote from: Walkaboutout on July 13, 2018, 10:12:11 PM
So yeah, my pawns can't attack or hunt in .1964 either. They just stand there. I'll make a bug report because I see other stuff there, but not specifically attacking outright or hunting, though I'm willing to bet the pawns' inability to put out fires might be related.
This has to be mods or a version/save issue. A new game results in unbroken hunting/attacking. Bleh.
if you had RunAndGun installed and now it all works without it, that was the issue. I figured it was for me and already let the mod author know about it.
Quote from: alfons100 on July 14, 2018, 07:25:27 AM
The Social penalties for doing immoral actions should be made more severe, Tynan. Right now, killing someones friend, butchering them and *eating them* is all not as bad as being a little ugly. Even in a place like the Rimworld thats very illogical.
If doing all those 3 would cause atleast -40 in colony-relation, this would make having psychopathes also be a possible hazard of them being seen as an outcast, then the 'Human hat factory' money meta will become a little less preferable.
How I value this ingame is mostly about how long the penality stays. Last game I had a normal guy butchering all raiders, because the -30 mood for a week wasn't that huge. A week is quickly over and if he gets a menthal break in that time, it's over quickly and give +40, so everything will be fine now.
I think the idea with the "humanity" for a long-term stat is quite nice as a compensate for short mood debuffs. I think just making the penality time really long doesn't fit. Having a time limit works for a lot, but for these humanity-things an enduring value that changes through events and has an impact somewhere sounds good. I just remember the game overlord vaguely where something like that existed.
For the pawn thing: I take most of the pawns I get until I have "enough" colonists (as in I like small colonies and my old laptop likes it too). So even a guy that has one or two passions is still really useful. I don't need anyone to have passions in half of the skills, he never has time to do everyting at all.
I recognized passions and traits decide mostly if I keep someone. I like how traits really make a pawn individual and this could still be a bit more impactful. The values are in the right range, it's just that pawns with only 2 traits lack some of this individuality, especially if they are more generic. One tait more for everyone maybe. Or everyone has a core-trait that defines a lot (like pyro, psychopath, neurotic, night-owl, ...) and several smaller side traits (like depressive, hard worker, ...)
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:39:59 AM
I've tried lots of things to try to nudge players towards the appropriate difficulty for their play goals but it seems to be a really hard problem. I've got some ideas for doing this better, though.
I've seen that "problem" quite often. Some players just want to play on the highest difficulty, with the biggest map size, with the highest [whatever number]. I guess it's kinda a psychological thing to want to be part of the best. I've heard people saying
extreme is so hard, I need a mod that makes it easier, because lowering the difficulty seems out of their mind or whatever.
Quote from: Galvenox on July 14, 2018, 07:57:19 AM
Quote from: Walkaboutout on July 13, 2018, 10:12:11 PM
So yeah, my pawns can't attack or hunt in .1964 either. They just stand there. I'll make a bug report because I see other stuff there, but not specifically attacking outright or hunting, though I'm willing to bet the pawns' inability to put out fires might be related.
This has to be mods or a version/save issue. A new game results in unbroken hunting/attacking. Bleh.
if you had RunAndGun installed and now it all works without it, that was the issue. I figured it was for me and already let the mod author know about it.
Apparently, one of the latest builds broke RunAndGun. I just fixed it. If you download version 1.0.1 of RunAndGun things should be fine again.
This is quite an annoying QoL UI thing: I like to generate full planets, which takes a while. When I click on a tile and the stats about the tile come up in the box, it has a cross in the top right, which subconsciously leads me to press the Esc key to close it. But this destroys the world and means I have to wait through generating the world all over again. Could Esc first close this box? It takes a while to generate a planet, so I don't think you even need Esc to reverse that. But if you keep it in, I think Esc should prioritise closing the stats box for the tile (since it has a x sign).
EDIT: Alternatively, keep the last generated world in memory so if the seed is the same it will just use that rather than regenerating it.
A small graphical thing on the world view (when selecting a site): if you click on different areas of the Earth, the Sun moves around, and most of the background stars stay in the same place. But some of the stars close to the Sun change positions weirdly. Is this intended?
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
This is the existing design; there's mood penaties for things like banishing or executing your own colonists, especially if they have relationships. We could push this aspect harder and design more around this, but it's just a matter of development time, really.
I was thinking about more of some sort of positive feedback loop, the happy carrot in contrast to the sadness stick.
QuoteAnyway, let's please move on from the meta-discussion. This thread is for discussing play experiences with the 1.0 unstable build.
QuoteWhich difficulty is this specifically?
Generally, if you want breathing space to play around with story stuff you should play Medium or maybe Rough. The harder modes are designed to punish non-optimal play; there's no way to have a hard difficulty that also allows free role-play since hard inherently demands an optimal response to each situation, thus removing freedom.
I've tried lots of things to try to nudge players towards the appropriate difficulty for their play goals but it seems to be a really hard problem. I've got some ideas for doing this better, though.
So far, I don't think the game is too hard in 1.0. I play for story, thus sub-optimally, but with randy extreme / hardcore, no mods. Some things seem markedly easier than the last time I played. For example, my perception is that disease seems to be far less of a problem to me. Against plague I used one or two meds on each colonist until I was sure they were going to be fine, then switched to herbal. Even the colonist that had a heart-attack while plague infected pulled through, which really surprised me. This is even without hospital beds etc. Is there some luck/hidden stats involved? I noticed that one of my colonists healed much quicker than the others, but I couldn't figure out why.
Quickie: Tynan, once upon a time, you made a thread regarding animals in combat. Will there be any features implemented to make them more useful?
On the whole, treating pawns:
I sympathise with Tynan's position of wanting to players to care for pawns instead of expandable statblocks. Much of it has to do with violence being such an integral part of Rimworld (and really, games in general). I don't pretend to have solutions to this issue, but here are some random ideas I've had in mind since forever:
1. Raids are the biggest threats to colonies, this is a given. So, why not be able to bribe them to go away? It's TECHNICALLY in the game in regards to "leave valuables outside and hope the raiders take them and go away". But even something as "give X silver to go away" would be enough, IMO. At least a once in a while thing. Maybe even before every single raid.
2. How many a post has r/rimworld made about being able to capture an enemy leader but not being able to do anything about it? If killed, there could be a "reset" in which raids stop appearing. Maybe a month or two. If captured, the raiders will agree to stop attacking for X amount of time. If trying to rescue, raiders may decide to save the leader again or decide to elect a new one.
3. On world maps: give a chance for pawns to sneak by a possible encounter. This should be impossible with a train of 10 muffalos but a single runner or maybe two should be able to avoid them. How about threatening them to back off? Maybe a combination of player weapons and/or shooting/melee skill?
4. The destruction of a pirate faction base should probably also "reset" or "freeze" this raid timer. Perhaps even an equivalent for mechanoids.
5. We have an artefact that if activated, makes animals go crazy. Why not an equivalent for calming them? This would create a non-violent solution to the manhunter event. Maybe an ability to calm them via Animal skill? Surely my level 15 handler should have the skill to calm down a raging bear after all.
This has probably crossed into the realm of "move this to the suggestion thread" but it's quite clear that veteran players do in fact treat pawns as expandable. It's not a problem for most, but as this clashes with Tynan's vision, it's a handful of ideas that I can offer. Not a dev, not a programmer, just one guy's opinion on the matter.
Quite solid opinion actually. Bribing raids and letting them buy out captured leaders\pawns from you also would be a nice addition. They can offer you money for a kidnapped pawn - should be possible for us as well. At least if we re talking about tribes\outlanders (pirates probably don't give a crap about their own people).
On the topic of making player care for his pawns - if this is a real goal of the game - it has a ton of stuff, that makes it real hard to afford to like a pawn. Its way too brutal to establish this kind of connections. Earlier you could be somewhat safe towards lategame making your defense as solid as you can. This time with increased drop pod\sapper raids you're never safe. And thus - you learn to treat your colonists as workforce, preferably expendable one.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
Quote from: dogthinker on July 14, 2018, 06:55:32 AM
Perhaps build a cycle into the game that rewards the colony's ability to sustain its weaker members, such that keeping them going becomes an end in itself.
This is the existing design; there's mood penaties for things like banishing or executing your own colonists, especially if they have relationships. We could push this aspect harder and design more around this, but it's just a matter of development time, really.
Not penalties. Rewards. We need a reason to take those 12 cats who are going to eat us out of house and home, instead of turning them into dinner for the dogs we're keeping because they're actually useful but breed like rabbits so we slaughter their young and turn them into kibble.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
This is the existing design; there's mood penaties for things like banishing or executing your own colonists, especially if they have relationships. We could push this aspect harder and design more around this, but it's just a matter of development time, really.
From my experiences in 1.0 it's not that big of a deal to banish a bad colonist or avoid them in the first place. You can pass up on wanderers/chased refugees, let escape pod people die, they have either no effect on your colonists or it's a minor one.
Don't get me wrong I think making the debuffs more severe will not solve the issue. It might be a good idea regardless, to help with the issue, but not solve it. I'm saying this based on my experience in 1.0. If the banished debuff was harder, lasted longer etc. it wouldn't make me think twice if I really want to get rid of someone.
Punishing is generally not the way to get players to do something, rather make it attractive to care for someone handicapped. For example give a mood buff to everyone if you have a person over the age of 50 with an ailment like "frail" or "bad back" in the colony. The more severe the debuff and the more that colonist has, and the more colonists of this type you have, the bigger the mood buff.
One could even give a global work speed buff to all pawns. Nothing insane, but maybe 5-10%.
I too have banished many a useless colonist. Making a debuff be real bad and last a long time however, will not solve the issue. It will make players go "our colonists barely know the pyromaniac, drug addicted, convent child/sheriff, why would they care?!"
I agree with the above post of carrot over beatings. If my village decided to care for a kid or an old person, we'd probably feel very good of ourselves. That won't stop players shoving them in the nearest cryptopod though.
Slapping a moodlet on banishing a useless liability on top of game's tendency to present said liability to you frequently, will only provide a rich soil for futher complaints, until someone's mod disables it, the way some people disable their colonists from caring for losing an "innocent" prisoner, who tried to melt their faces off couple hours ago.
I thought I'd add my current experience regarding pawn quality.
I'm playing Phoebe Medium Crashlanded, day 56, not sure if pawn skills/health etc links to difficulty level.
So far I have not recruited anyone from raids - I tried early on with a very good shooter, but after days of feeding and trying to recruit them they were showing no signs of turning, and with food running very low I set them free, and haven't had anyone tempting enough since then. If recruitment was a bit easier I'd do it as I love the process, but it does seem to take me a looong time so I tend to leave it for later once I have a nice environment and time/food to spare.
Otherwise my new colonists are:
- chased refugee, staggeringly ugly night owl, with high melee and a burning passion, plus decent skills in plants and crafting, no health issues
- wanderer joins, abrasive but with great memory, passion for shooting (10), burning passion for animals (3) and social (9) and passion for medical (4), no health issues
- wanderer joins, staggeringly ugly, too smart and psychically hypersensitive, burning passion for shooting (8 ) plus some other starter skills and a couple more passions, torso stab scar
All in all a good balance so far, decent skills to offset the negative traits (I still hate the staggeringly/ugly trait though, ruins the realism for me that ALL colonists care about each other's looks on the edge of survival. Plus I do seem to get a lot of them.)
I've been playing every day and haven't noticed a problem with only getting useless pawns, but the highest I've played is Rough. Plus I have been restarting a lot.
I don't think I have seen a option anywhere to have a animal that are trained with obedience (and thus have an ability to have a master) NOT assign themselves the handler as their master. I find this especially annoying since I have dromedaries as livestock/pack animals and I use males exclusively for pack animals and want to train them have obedience in case of caravan ambushes.
However with wildness of 25% the obedience training decays once in a while (or tameness if no levels at obedience). and every time my animal handler re-affirms the dromedarys obedience training, the camels deem to reassign the animal handler as master Every-god-damn-time. Also, I don't want my dogs to have masters unless bonded (and animals seem to bond easier with their current master than randomly with no master) so having this option would be quite swell when training up new puppies in their upcoming job as hauling slaves.
In fact, why I even play it? Mods. My 0.18 setup had over 150 mods. They were centered around making all threats avoidable with enough effort and extending content mass. In fact, they turned this game into colony sim (exactly what it is declared to be, BTW). Harsh, unforgiving, yet, if played right, beatable in a sense that you can avoid permanent losses with perfect play. And you know what - it also made it a good story generator. Let's take that 70 years old pawn from the previous screenshot:
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=41766.0;attach=26003;image)
What story Rimworld 1.0 can offer should I take her?
She used valuable food and medicine offering nothing, and when another bullshit happened everyone died.
...
No variants. All stories this "story generator" creates are about a dramatic (and, honestly, not all that diverse) breakdown. Drama is a spicy seasoning that should be used with moderation.
What my (probably broken for a hardcore player) build can give? Well, it would be the same, should I make a mistake. But if not?
Our wealthy colony, provided by efficient facilities, protected by diamond walls and powerful turrets, is a safe enough for us so we can care for a wanderer requiring nothing in turn.
Or: an old veteran joined our colony, and we used a fair share of our wealth and all our scientific resource to heal and augment her, to the point when she became our best fighter.
Or even: we are kinda pressed hard, but we still can afford to keep old and weak one on a simple job without hazarding ourselves. Makes us feel better, really!
I have a Meta Question about Pawn Generation.
Is Pawn creation truly random or are there modifiers at work ? ( similiar to those used by the scenario editor )
Because my ingame experience is as follows.
There are ( rightfully ) only a few outstanding pawns where backstory, traits, actual skills and passions truly align as there are only a few unlucky ones that have every addiction, disease and bad trait there is to have and euthanasia is the only sensible thing to do.
But bad thing about the bulk of pawns is that they make no sense.
They have a decent mixture of abilities, but such contradictions of character that I just can't acccept them as person.
Trigger Happy pawns that are either unable to do violence or have no shooting skill or passion
Double addicted teetollars.
Vatgrown Soldiers as sickly, wimpy slowpokes.
Those Pawns don't tell a story but break the suspension of disbelief and after this
there is nothing left but to min/max them as robots.
I think there should be some way to balance these issues, because a good story is about struggles from without and within. It is about overcoming or succumbing to those struggles and flaws.
The Problem that I want to point out is that the Pawns of Rimworld as they are now feel more of an obstacle the Player has to overcome to be the hero of the game
instead of the Pawns being the Heroes and Villains of the Rimworld guided by an benevolent(or not) player.
Also I dread the birthday of every pawn above 40 because some sickness will half usefullness for sure,
no matter how well managed my colony is.
Here are a few insights from my PTF (Permanent Toxic Fallout) 1.0 colony.
I started with four colonists, I still have only those four colonists because my one and only prisoner died of heatstroke. However, there was one colonist (called Lips) which seemed useless because he didn't have any skill at or passion for construction or mining. When there was nothing left to haul or clean, he would frequently be found wandering around idly.
So what I did was train him up by smoothing walls and floors. Yeah, he sucked at it for a while, but guess what? He's now skill level 4, and has a reasonable chance of success at succeeding at simple construction jobs like putting walls up, constructing batteries and conduits. There are still quite a few buildings that he can't build, but he can still deliver resources to frames.
Now you see, I like this story. Lips starts doing a job that he had never done before. He isn't good at it, and he doesn't particularly like it, but he helps out when needed. Over time he gets better, not great, but he's no longer so awful that furniture and walls fall apart moments after he starts putting them together.
Maybe he ends up recruiting someone who is far better than him at constructing, but if the colony is ever short-handed he's got those 4 points of construction skill.
So my point is, don't get too hung up on what a new recruit can't do or can't do well.
^+
It's very much true. I had no passionate researching pawns for a year and a half but I put my Intellect 4 colonists on the job anyway. He pretty much got us electricity and AC and all the fancy doodads before a proper researcher came. Same goes for my combat medics. Two have no passion for it but they got up to level 8 all the same and more or less maintain it.
Tynan please for the love of the environment and the planet lower the time it costs to sow trees. lol.
I have pawns getting entire nights of sleep done before the guy who ran out to plant a last minute tree gets finished. It's silly as as fook.
I'm in my early-mid stages of a tribal arid shrub run on phoebe chillax rough. I have a dedicated researcher still using the fisrt bench as I haven't gotten the second one yet. For the earlier techs with a dedicated researching the speed feels OK now. I'll comment again when I meander up into the end game researching since the point increase was on that end.
save the trees tynan!
:D
Just throwing this out there - Tribals have more consistently useful (and flawless) pawns by what feels like an order of magnitude.
There are almost no extremely specialized tribal backgrounds, and very few prohibit doing "standard" useful tasks such as cleaning/hauling/plantwork.
Scavenger prevents cleaning/hauling which is a bit of a red flag.
Vengeful Child prevents Medicine but.. bad medics are barely better than people unable to do medicine.
Reclusive Child prevents Social and is similar in nature to vengeful child
Sole Survivor prevents violence which is a doozy but you don't see a lot of it - I don't think raids can spawn with people incapable of violence (Though I could be wrong on that, not 100%).
There's also 1 or 2 childhood backstories in the tribal pool that allow adult backstories outside the tribal pool but they're pretty rare. Can't remember them off the top of my head.
Additionally a lot of tribal backgrounds have Indoorsman built into them - It feels like half of all tribals will happily live under a mountain. Not that I've found mountain bases particularly enticing lately.
The worst tribal backgrounds are pretty consistently useful. The chance of a critical failure in pawn generation is pretty slim.
It's really noticeable after playing 7 or 8 tribal colonies in a row and then switching to crashlanded that Tribals are actually.. pretty awesome despite their research penalty.
Tribal colonies more easily recruit other tribal pawns(which is pretty desirable), and they forage significantly more effectively (170%) which is reasonably useful.
I have to say that it would be a decent idea to increase the transparency of those effects somewhat though. There's no way to know that tribals forage better than new arrivals apart from caravaning with both and happening upon the forage tooltip indicating so. Ditto for the recruitment difficulty.
Additionally I find it's common for me to deliberately attack even the gentle tribal faction to keep them Hostile simply because I want to increase the chance of being attacked by tribals. They don't carry doomsday launchers and they don't use drop pods.
Since tribal raids are larger you increase the chance of getting prisoners and those prisoners as mentioned earlier are more likely to be useful. Tribals will rarely (if ever) give you valuable or useful weaponry or such from their raids but that cuts both ways.
Tribals aren't even particularly good trading partners so it doesn't really feel like much of a loss overall.
In my experience with Rimworld being generic with no significant benefits or flaws is often better overall and tribals currently fit that description perfectly.
Quote from: Boboid on July 14, 2018, 09:59:58 AM
Just throwing this out there - Tribals have more consistently useful (and flawless) pawns by what feels like an order of magnitude.
--snipped stuff--
IMO, tribals need this kind of boost to make up for the heavy research penalty. I find it fairly common that I'm years behind on tech that I would have been at if I were playing crashlanded. They need this stuff as early game survival.
They probably could have a few more negative backstories though, though I feel they are fairly well balanced as it is in general. The game scales raids and stuff faster then you can keep up as it is and with tribal games I find it's the early game, not the late game, that is a colony ender or not for me. As tribals near the later part of the mid game, or the end game, they are pretty much the same as outlanders, but that first year or two can be brutal.
I'd like to offer some feedback about the utility of pawns. I play Cassandra extreme exclusively; I love the new naked brutality scenario. I estimate that the ratio of useful pawns is about 10% (a very rough estimate). The usefulness of pawns have increased in 1.0 by virtue of there being more positive traits: fast learner, great memory, indoorman, etc. I think it's a good thing.
At extreme difficulty, there's little room of margin for debuffs. Pain and traits like depressive/neurotic/staggeringly ugly make pawns a liability because they are more likely to break or cause others to break. Breaks tend to compound, and the resulting morale loss spiral endangers the whole colony. This incites me to be conservative when it comes to pawn recruitment.
If pawns are made more acutely useless, then it becomes more important to avoid the bad ones. In that case, I would recruit a pawn with zero passion as long as they're healthy and reliable. Likewise, if I'm stuck with a bad pawn (wanderer join), then I'll pay whatever cost I have to pay to get rid of them. Increasing the penalty for doing makes the game more difficult but ultimately it doesn't change my incentive of removing a crippling liability.
In summary: at higher difficulties, the severity of the negative traits is significantly increased, and this affects the perceived usefulness of pawns.
Quote from: Boboid on July 14, 2018, 09:59:58 AM
Just throwing this out there - Tribals have more consistently useful (and flawless) pawns by what feels like an order of magnitude.
It's because their backstories are nearly exclusively small positive buffs. Spacer backstories have a much wider range, they can be insane in stats (e.g. wasteland wanderer for childhood and artificer rampant for adult - these two have combined +32 in skills while only disabling art (wasteland wanderer)) - but they can also be incredibly terrible (old sheriff... new sheriff is actually one of the best backstories).
Tribal backstories are more in the range of +4 to +6 in stats without disabling anything. So tribals are naturally capable of everything and get a small bonus in a few areas. If they get a few passions you immediately have a very useful pawn. So essentially only a very small % of tribals is bad, either because they have the worst combination of backstories or absolutely no passions.
Quote from: Walkaboutout on July 13, 2018, 10:12:11 PM
So yeah, my pawns can't attack or hunt in .1964 either. They just stand there. I'll make a bug report because I see other stuff there, but not specifically attacking outright or hunting, though I'm willing to bet the pawns' inability to put out fires might be related.
This has to be mods or a version/save issue. A new game results in unbroken hunting/attacking. Bleh.
Running mods on an unstable 1.0 version is not going to provide accurate results, here. Might be a good idea to abandon those until things get stable (and the feedback isn't as _critical_ as it is, now.)
Quote from: Oblitus on July 13, 2018, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Tass237 on July 13, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
I'm pretty sure that peg legs for animals were removed because it was too easy to gain Medical experience that way. Maybe if peg legs for animals came back, but didn't give Medical experience...
Why? Training medical skill on animals before humans is exactly how it is done IRL.
I'll throw my weight behind this. Medical skill building isn't exactly filled with opportunities. Especially, with the low experience gain on tending with no medicine. So, one would have to sacrifice a great deal, of medicine, to make much headway with this. Seems like it may be a fair balance. Any other thoughts on this experience, lately? I've tried training up medical by rescuing animals I've hunted and knocked down, tending them, and then eating them. It's a small pay-off, for the effort. Just started doing this in the last two versions, if that helps.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 12:05:07 AM
I'll just leave this here.
HAHH! Her poor soul just had too much of the killing ;P
Important is that one takes into account what the mods do. If one is just using QoL mods it's probably not really going to affect one's view, but content-heavy mods certainly do. I use a lot of mods, many of which I updated just for myself (e.g. More Furniture) but I never forget what they do and take that into account when I give feedback here.
They can even be an invaluable tool. E.g. I modded tree sowing work to be a third of what vanilla is and it feels pretty good.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 14, 2018, 02:08:03 AM
Serious issue here.
Refugees escaping from pirates are still arriving with extremely low walk speeds sometimes.
This makes it impossible to save them. People who arrives to the colony by outrunning raiders by who knows how much time should be fit for such a stunt...
Yeah, this is a problem for me, too. I hate to change the pawn generation with this (since anyone could escape, given enough time.) Maybe, these raids should have a longer delay relative to the speed of the pawn? Easily explained by the refugee not being noticed, and getting a far lead, even at such slow speed.
Quote from: robno on July 14, 2018, 04:17:31 AM
QoL thing:
Can the ground type (Soil etc.) be displayed even in the architect tab? It's sometimes quite hard to easily tell where rich soil is etc. and when designating growing zones or even planning buildings it would be helpful to see. I suggest moving the left-hand white text above the architect window temporarily (and therefore shrinking the inventory display area temporarily).
Seconded. This has been bothersome since I've been playing (quite a while.) I'd say it's a top 5 annoyance. Implementing something like Robno suggests would be ... Kreygasm.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 05:06:14 AM
Quote from: Madman666 on July 14, 2018, 04:47:35 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 03:38:28 AM
And young tend to have neither skills nor passions.
Wanderer joins... Why we can't reject them again? Now I've got mood penalty, just what I need with the overpowered psychic drone.
This particular wanderer might as well just join graveyard instead of your colony. Its ridiculous how game just keep sending trash pawns your way.
Simply calling something "ridicuous" is no better than "atrocious". This isn't usable feedback, it's just venting, which is prohibited here by rule 2. You're welcome to criticize but please say something meaningful, actionable, discussable.
As for the point, handling flawed useless people is part of the game. RimWorld is not intended to be an RTS. If you want a game where every unit is a fungible optimized robot, there are some great RTSs I can recommend. However, if you want a game with dynamic characters and generated story, that means some of the characters will be more useful than others, and some will be worse than useless, just as people are in stories. It means many of the problems you face will come from inside your group, not outside, just as in stories. In truth I'd like to turn RW more in this direction, because as we've discussed here, external attacks are still far too big a part of the game. There average pawn in this game really should be worse than they are, and many more should be entirely useless (and I mean actually useless, not, "he can only research and art" useless).
I'm completely for this. With one exception, if the external combats are heavily reduced: Allow us to "Declare War" on factions. Or, to send out a challenge to the surrounding bandits (like the ones that hit caravans.) It'd be something like, "Your kind will not be tolerated. We will seek to destroy you." And boom, they feel a need to attack more often. Love what you're doing. Love everything you've said, here. Story it up. o7
Quote from: ChJees on July 14, 2018, 05:20:29 AM
Internal attacks, hmm. Like a powder keg with a long fuse just waiting to explode.
Reminds me of the times when I had social fights at the most inopportune times before a raid leaving two guys heavily crippled. Or the times when I had colonists being stoned on smokeleaf making them useless in a fight. (Also brings me to forbid smokeleaf from being a social drug :P)
Something that truly would bring drama would be to have a would be colonist "sell out" your colony by sabotaging doors and turrets quietly before a raid. Or poisoning the food in the colony leaving all your colonists with food poisoning. A helluva drama that. Also spreading catty rumors making your colonists hate each other :P.
Edit: Also why not have a event where you get a trader event only for it be uncovered as being pirates when you send out a negotiator? Two choices, your negotiator or your stuff!
Duuude. Great idea. It would be painful but, with enough advance warning (subtly,) it shouldn't ruin too many games. One should be able to notice that they get along with few or none of the colonists, start frequent fights, or frequently enter violent mental states. Also, anyone paying attention could notice the flicking of switches. Would be amazing storytelling, as long as we have a chance to catch it and banish or imprison the fool. Then, maybe you could even have a chance to sell them off to the faction they were trying to sabotage for. Or even threaten that you'll kill their pawn, for a chance to stop the raid (or trade for a peaceful resolution to that single event.) XD
Quote from: Namsan on July 14, 2018, 05:56:23 AM
I think tree sowing time change is not good.
It's terribly long, and even pawns with high Plants skill will take long.
Honestly, it only made living in biomes with almost no trees annoying.
I was also thinking, why pine trees can't grow in cold temperature at all?
I thought they can grow in places with cold temperature.(like Russia or Canada)
They survive the cold quite well (better than many trees) but, they still stop growing in the winters.
Keep the drama level low please... Well no, its not low already, so keep it in check instead. Or at least make it optional. I already imagine some bastard flicking your power off, then a bunch of raiders drop on you and here you are rolling colonists again.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 05:06:14 AM
As for the point, handling flawed useless people is part of the game.
Flawed? Sure. Pawns having negative traits you have to work around is perfectly fine. They have other skills to compensate that. But pawns being inherently useless should be very rare. At least if the game punishes you with stronger raids for that pawn merely existing. If the number of pawns determines enemy strength they are a liability.
Same with "incapable of violence". Of course realistically a good number of your colonists could fall under that heading. But the way raids and combat work, they can become too much of a liability at some point. Even if you'd like to keep them around for other reasons.
It's something different if a pawn
becomes useless. I watched a stream where a character suffered a spinal injury and was bedridden for years. That was cool. He was lovingly cared for by his tribe for years in the hopes that one day they could find a bionic spine for him. And then died of some disease :(
Quote from: alfons100 on July 14, 2018, 07:25:27 AM
The Social penalties for doing immoral actions should be made more severe, Tynan. Right now, killing someones friend, butchering them and *eating them* is all not as bad as being a little ugly. Even in a place like the Rimworld thats very illogical.
If doing all those 3 would cause atleast -40 in colony-relation, this would make having psychopathes also be a possible hazard of them being seen as an outcast, then the 'Human hat factory' money meta will become a little less preferable.
I'll second this, from experience in the last two patches (the first times I started butchering people, eating their meat, and using them for clothes -- I've moved to tribal and phew, those man-steaks help.) The penalties are strong but, I've been able to just work on past them. That does feel a little weird.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 07:55:42 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:39:59 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 07:36:58 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
Anyway, let's please move on from the meta-discussion. This thread is for discussing play experiences with the 1.0 unstable build, not open-ended suggestions or ideas for major direction changes in the game. Off-topic posts may be removed.
It is caused by 1.0 experience directly. Changes in this build made the game more punishing for taking non-optimal decisions. Can't really tell for current build (made a new game and only played a year after reworking the ramp-up), and so far it is okay (2:1 from latest raids is fine by me), but I have to be pressed hard to take a take a pawn with major health issues or without a passion for combat, and should be truly desperate to take non-violent one. Late game raids are way too hard to afford to have pawns who can't fight well.
You are trying to make it a story generator, but you are achieving the opposite - the less you are attached the better it is played. Being merciless, manipulative asshole pays off greatly.
Which difficulty is this specifically?
Generally, if you want breathing space to play around with story stuff you should play Medium or maybe Rough. The harder modes are designed to punish non-optimal play; there's no way to have a hard difficulty that also allows free role-play since hard inherently demands an optimal response to each situation, thus removing freedom.
I've tried lots of things to try to nudge players towards the appropriate difficulty for their play goals but it seems to be a really hard problem. I've got some ideas for doing this better, though.
Medium. Note, that I've played on "Intense" before 1.0. The problem is not in difficulty but in core design. On medium I'll get 40 scythers falling on my head bypassing all possible defences, on hard I'll get 60. It doesn't matter. The problem is not in number, but in "bypassing all possible defenses" part. And even more straight up raids - there is a point when you WILL be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. On lower difficulties, it would be later, but it would be. The game has, by design, more offense than you can possibly have defence. And 1.0 is progressively stripping player of any defensive tactics. The game is, let's admit it, cheating. Almost all mechanics punishing player has no effect on enemies. And when you are losing against cheater - it's not a good story. It's okay to be challenged. It's okay to be punished for mistakes. It's okay to take losses for your incompetence. But playing rimworld is like playing chess with a pigeon. It knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and claims victory.
I'd suggest the possibility of building sturdier roofs. "Reinforced Roofing" Could help insulate and also provide a type of defense, against dropping on your head. Maybe anything in a drop pod, that goes through these roofs (and maybe even include a chance they try to go through overhead mountain and simply die) takes a heavy attack from the roof or a standard damage across the entire body? Just a thought that preserves the current system and allows an option, player-driven & additional effort /resources no less, to reduce the threat here. The roof tiles get destroyed and must be replaced. Make 'em expensive. <3
Why not make roofs cost stuff also? Its rather weird seeing pawns whip out endless roof tiles out of their dimensional pockets. And make them expensive too. Otherwise its no fun.
Quote from: seerdecker on July 14, 2018, 10:13:28 AM
I'd like to offer some feedback about the utility of pawns. I play Cassandra extreme exclusively; I love the new naked brutality scenario. I estimate that the ratio of useful pawns is about 10% (a very rough estimate). The usefulness of pawns have increased in 1.0 by virtue of there being more positive traits: fast learner, great memory, indoorman, etc. I think it's a good thing.
At extreme difficulty, there's little room of margin for debuffs. Pain and traits like depressive/neurotic/staggeringly ugly make pawns a liability because they are more likely to break or cause others to break. Breaks tend to compound, and the resulting morale loss spiral endangers the whole colony. This incites me to be conservative when it comes to pawn recruitment.
If pawns are made more acutely useless, then it becomes more important to avoid the bad ones. In that case, I would recruit a pawn with zero passion as long as they're healthy and reliable. Likewise, if I'm stuck with a bad pawn (wanderer join), then I'll pay whatever cost I have to pay to get rid of them. Increasing the penalty for doing makes the game more difficult but ultimately it doesn't change my incentive of removing a crippling liability.
In summary: at higher difficulties, the severity of the negative traits is significantly increased, and this affects the perceived usefulness of pawns.
"Extreme", no?
Showing more information on pawns (at least in the higher difficulties with little room for error) doesn't hurt but, there are quite a few ways to offset these mood penalties and if used properly will keep those pawns from breaking, every other day. It's still going to be difficult but, welcome to Hard+. ;)
Quote from: Madman666 on July 14, 2018, 11:16:31 AM
Why not make roofs cost stuff also? Its rather weird seeing pawns whip out endless roof tiles out of their dimensional pockets. And make them expensive too. Otherwise its no fun.
Dimensional Pockets! HAH! Madman, you crack me up all the time. :thumbsup:
Secondly, I'll join this camp. Nice idea, Madman -- Expensive simple roof tiles sarcasm aside. ;)
I'm also a fan of the "humanity" idea. What if it were implemented as a goal, rather than an active/ongoing (i.e. moodlet) buff?
For example, perhaps it could have some sort of impact on the end-game/ending - such as, given that your colony has fallen to brutal cannibalism/hat making, the A.I. that contacts you early perceives your colony as a threat that must be stopped, and either actively makes the end much more difficult, and/or just flat-out gives you a "bad ending" sort of result. In the latter case, maybe attach a silly steam achievement to the positive ending, problem solved. People who still want to play the game as a sort of unending RTS could effectively ignore it if they chose to, but it would serve as an additional goalpost for anyone looking to emphasize the story aspect of the game.
If you think it should have ongoing impacts, maybe it could have more of an effect on faction relations (and/or involve spacers in some way)? If your colony is full of brutal cannibals, it might not effect your colonists per se, but I could see your reputation having more of an effect than a binary trades vs. raids. I could see an "allied" faction being more hesitant to send traders/quests/aid out of fear.
In either case, it could be interesting if the "humanity" stat was less visible/more vague. On the one hand, I really appreciate how all the stat breakdowns are right there in front of you for nuanced things such as blood filtration - on the other, having humanity as a vague/longer-term stat might make it easier to implement in a reasonable way that doesn't just end with it being another branch of the pawn optimization tree. Perhaps it could be graphed in a similar way to colony wealth, but things that effect it might have enough variance that it can't be accurately predicted?
As far as experiences go - playing on Cassandra Rough, about 1.5 years into a 30/30 small hills map, so far it's felt easier than previous games - raids seem to finally be picking up, but they're still usually pretty small, to the point that I haven't even felt the need to set up turrets.
The raid AI does seem to be slightly better than I remember - I seem to recall previously just setting up an obvious base "entrance" with some valuables near an open door & a pathway filled with traps/turrets, but raiders seem to like splitting up into groups and trying to break through walls on the other sides of the colony instead of blindly running through the traps. So far I've just sent out small teams of 2x snipers and a couple melee guys to take potshots and lure these groups into bad positions - just luring them into the traps doesn't seem to work, and I think I like that, it feels more realistic/less "tower defense"-ish.
One thing to bear in mind regarding pawn usefulness: I'll always try to keep the game balanced. So if difficulty was added to one area by making more pawns with problems (or other internal colony/survival challenges), difficulty would be removed from other areas (e.g. toning down raids).
It's not about just making the game harder by adding more pawn selection challenges, it's about shifting the difficulty that's there from massive raid defense towards internal management.
All that said, I've no concrete plans to change anything on this soon, there's a lot more immediate things to solve for 1.0.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 14, 2018, 11:25:48 AM
Dimensional Pockets! HAH! Madman, you crack me up all the time. :thumbsup:
Secondly, I'll join this camp. Nice idea, Madman -- Expensive simple roof tiles sarcasm aside. ;)
I tried :D On a serious note I am actually not against building roofs and even having different kinds of roofs (defensive, transparent etc.) as long as building materials won't suddenly get unfairly harder to get (wood *cough-cough*). At this point i'll just be watching and taking notes, to work on my own little rebalance mod, to tailor end version to my liking without upsetting a single soul.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 14, 2018, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 07:55:42 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:39:59 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 07:36:58 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
Anyway, let's please move on from the meta-discussion. This thread is for discussing play experiences with the 1.0 unstable build, not open-ended suggestions or ideas for major direction changes in the game. Off-topic posts may be removed.
It is caused by 1.0 experience directly. Changes in this build made the game more punishing for taking non-optimal decisions. Can't really tell for current build (made a new game and only played a year after reworking the ramp-up), and so far it is okay (2:1 from latest raids is fine by me), but I have to be pressed hard to take a take a pawn with major health issues or without a passion for combat, and should be truly desperate to take non-violent one. Late game raids are way too hard to afford to have pawns who can't fight well.
You are trying to make it a story generator, but you are achieving the opposite - the less you are attached the better it is played. Being merciless, manipulative asshole pays off greatly.
Which difficulty is this specifically?
Generally, if you want breathing space to play around with story stuff you should play Medium or maybe Rough. The harder modes are designed to punish non-optimal play; there's no way to have a hard difficulty that also allows free role-play since hard inherently demands an optimal response to each situation, thus removing freedom.
I've tried lots of things to try to nudge players towards the appropriate difficulty for their play goals but it seems to be a really hard problem. I've got some ideas for doing this better, though.
Medium. Note, that I've played on "Intense" before 1.0. The problem is not in difficulty but in core design. On medium I'll get 40 scythers falling on my head bypassing all possible defences, on hard I'll get 60. It doesn't matter. The problem is not in number, but in "bypassing all possible defenses" part. And even more straight up raids - there is a point when you WILL be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. On lower difficulties, it would be later, but it would be. The game has, by design, more offense than you can possibly have defence. And 1.0 is progressively stripping player of any defensive tactics. The game is, let's admit it, cheating. Almost all mechanics punishing player has no effect on enemies. And when you are losing against cheater - it's not a good story. It's okay to be challenged. It's okay to be punished for mistakes. It's okay to take losses for your incompetence. But playing rimworld is like playing chess with a pigeon. It knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and claims victory.
I'd suggest the possibility of building sturdier roofs. "Reinforced Roofing" Could help insulate and also provide a type of defense, against dropping on your head. Maybe anything in a drop pod, that goes through these roofs (and maybe even include a chance they try to go through overhead mountain and simply die) takes a heavy attack from the roof or a standard damage across the entire body? Just a thought that preserves the current system and allows an option, player-driven & additional effort /resources no less, to reduce the threat here. The roof tiles get destroyed and must be replaced. Make 'em expensive. <3
I don't think there is a need for that. I had plenty 'drop on top' raids in 1.0, and it wasn't too bad. It's just:
- you get pawns out of dangerous places
- you accept some inavitable destruction and let attackers destroy some stuff, better stuff than pawns
- you clear out smaller groups if they were divided by walls, possibly with melee and flanking
- you lock open doors leading outside and lure attackers out
- you kill them and rebuild.
It is not that bad nor cheating, it just needs tactics.
As far as difficulty in 1.0, I find randy rough is still my sweet spot. I can relax slightly (I play for fun after all) but it is still a challenge. I have to think about what I am doing, but I don't feel like the game is constantly trying to murder me.
There are definitely more raids, so I need to work on that side of my skills.
Got a melee raid. They were so set on destroying my watermills that I was able to shoot them like sitting ducks.
Quote from: robno on July 14, 2018, 08:22:33 AM
This is quite an annoying QoL UI thing: I like to generate full planets, which takes a while. When I click on a tile and the stats about the tile come up in the box, it has a cross in the top right, which subconsciously leads me to press the Esc key to close it. But this destroys the world and means I have to wait through generating the world all over again. Could Esc first close this box? It takes a while to generate a planet, so I don't think you even need Esc to reverse that. But if you keep it in, I think Esc should prioritise closing the stats box for the tile (since it has a x sign).
EDIT: Alternatively, keep the last generated world in memory so if the seed is the same it will just use that rather than regenerating it.
A small graphical thing on the world view (when selecting a site): if you click on different areas of the Earth, the Sun moves around, and most of the background stars stay in the same place. But some of the stars close to the Sun change positions weirdly. Is this intended?
This must be a bug. v1964: Just tested a 100% map game. Upon entry, the world map was already generated and ready to go from the scenario UI. Left to menu, entered game again. Regenerated. It's loaded and immediately available anytime I go to the World tab, now. What version are you running? Any mods?
Quote from: Serenity on July 13, 2018, 07:16:48 PM
It would be nice if chocolate didn't literally grow on trees, but that you just get beans and you need to cook them into chocolate. I know that's leaving out some steps, but plenty of things are simplified in this game.
Where would the beans come from? Suggestions? The tree thing seems to provide this well but, an adjustment to tree sowing is certainly necessary to making this viable.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 14, 2018, 11:53:18 AM
Quote from: robno on July 14, 2018, 08:22:33 AM
This is quite an annoying QoL UI thing: I like to generate full planets, which takes a while. When I click on a tile and the stats about the tile come up in the box, it has a cross in the top right, which subconsciously leads me to press the Esc key to close it. But this destroys the world and means I have to wait through generating the world all over again. Could Esc first close this box? It takes a while to generate a planet, so I don't think you even need Esc to reverse that. But if you keep it in, I think Esc should prioritise closing the stats box for the tile (since it has a x sign).
EDIT: Alternatively, keep the last generated world in memory so if the seed is the same it will just use that rather than regenerating it.
A small graphical thing on the world view (when selecting a site): if you click on different areas of the Earth, the Sun moves around, and most of the background stars stay in the same place. But some of the stars close to the Sun change positions weirdly. Is this intended?
This must be a bug. v1964: Just tested a 100% map game. Upon entry, the world map was already generated and ready to go from the scenario UI. Left to menu, entered game again. Regenerated. It's loaded and immediately available anytime I go to the World tab, now. What version are you running? Any mods?
No mods, running v1964 (64 bit). Are you talking about once you've started a game? I'm talking about when you are selecting a start location. What do you mean the world map was already generated and ready to go from the scenario UI? With mine, you choose the storyteller, then choose the seed, then click 'Generate' and it takes ages to generate it. When you see the world, and press escape, you go back to the 'Create world' dialog and have to click 'Generate' again, and it takes ages.
Sry, I am a bit late with my ramp-up graph (attachment, v1962).
It took me a while to realize, that I had to start a new colony. :)
This is from a day 48 naked (and afraid) scenario with Cassandra Storyteller on Builder difficulty.
I usually play phoebie chillout - medium or builder, because I don't like to be roflstomped by huge raids or manhunter events. But this aspect seemed to have improved, so I might increase the difficulty on my next playthrough.
Maybe it will be interesting to see my defences get tested a bit more frequently.
In case it might be of interest. I've also added screens of my first 1.0 play"through" up until version 1959.
It's on phoebie-builder difficulty, 328 days old.
https://imgur.com/S0C3uoo
As you can see in the last screen on the right,
https://imgur.com/OgJOS5H (with history graph)
I've played around a bit with techniques how to slow down enemies, since burnt wooden floor meta got balanced. The swamp tiles you can see there are placed via cheat, just to see how effective a slow tunnel is.
Not that I need a perfect defence on this scenario, but it is still fun to theorycraft in this way while playing.
I also often "roleplay" the way I approach building my base. This helps alot to immerse yourself in the story that unfolds in front of you.
To me this often means bigger (more humane) and prettier rooms than necesary, themed rooms (the [color] room, chicken barn, dog house, panic room/bunker, hospital, vet station...)
Btw, it would be great to assign "hospital" animal sleeping spots, like you do with hospital beds.
Animals already go to a high quality bed when they are hurt, but these are often not the ones I placed in a clean room that's designed for surgery.
On the other hand, maybe I should stop putting them in bedrooms... (mostly because of bonded animals)
Also while I am at it, allow me another quick suggestion:
It would be great to use the Z or Y-key to mine (harvest) stone and ores instead of L. It is a key you already use to harvest plants.
So why not streamlining the controls here to some extend? Imo you can also reach it better with your left hand, especially people with qwertz keyboards.
Thanks for listening!
[attachment deleted due to age]
I'm really enjoying the changes in 1.0 and have been playing the game for the past three days straight (I'm usually not that much a gamer).
I think the different aspects / mechanics come well together. However, I've been thinking the social aspect / influence on the overall game could be improved. As I've seen it being mentioned, I thought I share my thoughts on it as well:
Earlier today I've been chatting with a friend who just bought the game yesterday and we were exchanging stories. One of his pawns is constantly at a minor break risk because he keeps getting rejected (lol). I looked at my own game, where my lone starter guy had rescued / recruited a fellow dude and realised: heh, with those two being straight males I dodged the rebuffed mood "bullet" for now. But there's nothing equivalent happening in my story...
My dudes have become best bros (opinion +100). I think it would be cool if there was another mood buff / penalty where people's friendships are taken into consideration in a positive way. Just a minor thing, but spending time with your friends could boost it and there could be a mood penalty when someone hasn't talked to their friends in a while. Might also be cool to have a social / antisocial trait. Like people getting a buff / penalty when they're in the same room as / get to talk to other folks.
Like, right now my colony has grown to four (two males, two females). Three of them get along really well, but their mood doesn't reflect that. The only thing I get is one of my dudes suffering from the endless rebuffed mood spiral of doom and his best friend doesn't even cheer him up. :/
Waterproof cables are unable to be built over with bridges and can only be placed in shallow water. If you have to use them for water mills or geo on the other side of the river this can be rather limiting.
Also is the threat level of Ancient Dangers as intended (two openings after the fix to things not spawning) I have had 2 centipede and 2-3 scyther/lancer (I forget exact makeup) and last night with one centipede, 4 scythers and 2 lancers. If this is the level of threat intended that's ok just means you need good gear or a good setup probably both. Though centipedes with inferno cannons will destroy everything in and AD if you fight them as they seem to be leashed to the AD. Luckily when I did it I opened up a section of wall away from the cryocaskets or all that would be gone.
As for social impacts I've always thought some of them odd. You married someone +30 opinion, they lose a nose -40 lets divorce. For stranded shipwrecked people on a dangerous planet full of people trying to kill and capture them they sure are picky and fussy.
As to tribals having less backgrounds that screw you please don't make tribals as bad as crashlanded, I'm guessing and going off other people that crashlanded pawns have the most player designed backgrounds. It can be really hard getting 3 pawns that have the 4 or 5 skills you need to start a colony. This is a decent part of why I play tribal, it is easier to get decent pawns who can fight and be reasonable at some skills.
Also wanderer joins event could we get the ability to refuse them? It is our colony after all. I understand you don't want people seeing the stats of pawns being chased by pirates or asking for rescue but surely we should get some agency with people asking to join, ok not asking just joining and picking a bed.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 14, 2018, 11:54:00 AM
Where would the beans come from? Suggestions? The tree thing seems to provide this well but, an adjustment to tree sowing is certainly necessary to making this viable.
From the tree of course. Just like in reality. So instead of chocolate you get beans and those could then be directly cooked into chocolate for simplicity.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
[...]
This is the existing design; there's mood penaties for things like banishing or executing your own colonists, especially if they have relationships. We could push this aspect harder and design more around this, but it's just a matter of development time, really.
Not sure if you noticed it, but the "gifting" mechanism you introduced with the revamped faction relation system allows a way of not having any mood penalties for getting rid of colonists - probably just an oversight that you should either not be able to "gift" pawns itself or include a mood penalty.
Original post (with more details & steps to reproduce it) in the Bug Report section: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42480.0
I discovered a minor typo:
In the description of wake-up it says: "...repeated use will produce and addiction...
Quote from: Talys on July 14, 2018, 01:16:40 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
[...]
This is the existing design; there's mood penaties for things like banishing or executing your own colonists, especially if they have relationships. We could push this aspect harder and design more around this, but it's just a matter of development time, really.
Not sure if you noticed it, but the "gifting" mechanism you introduced with the revamped faction relation system allows a way of not having any mood penalties for getting rid of colonists - probably just an oversight that you should either not be able to "gift" pawns itself or include a mood penalty.
Original post (with more details & steps to reproduce it) in the Bug Report section: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42480.0
Actually, this should be a feature. Rather than exiling pawns to nowhere drop them in friendly factions.
Idk if the tree sowing time was increased because people were abusing chocolate or what, but if that's the case please make it just those trees that take forever. Wood should not be something you struggle so much for even on arid playthroughs. :(
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 14, 2018, 09:57:37 AM
Tynan please for the love of the environment and the planet lower the time it costs to sow trees. lol.
I have pawns getting entire nights of sleep done before the guy who ran out to plant a last minute tree gets finished. It's silly as as fook.
Maybe break tree sowing into phases so that a pawn can do a bit and then go for a break. Low-skill pawns are quite slow at doing things. Remember I told you about Lips, the guy who learned Construction from zero skill? Smoothing just one bit of wall or floor would take him ages.
Yeah, it's really annoying spending an entire day planting a tree and then vomiting, meaning we have to start from scratch again.
Bad pawns are often very bad compared to good pawns. If you want to see us using more flawed pawns, maybe smooth out that difference, make bad pawns less bad.
Often it's not a small drop in efficiency, but a big drop, where the pawn becomes a liability, or relatively useless in his specialty role, due to his defect, for example because he automatically has a chance to fail and waste resources, that a healthy, lower skill pawn wouldn't have. Or because he has a chance to break at a good mood and wander into crossfire, with no way to counter it.
I'm quite happy to take a healthy, non-crazy pawn with low skills, but some ability to learn and be useful. They can serve as grunts to protect my valuable pawns and chip in around the base.
But a lot of pawns are much, much worse than that. Why would I take a pawn that makes me more likely to lose?
That's the pitfall associated with the current difficulty scaling method. Contrast with a difficulty scale based on time instead of wealth, where you might take a pawn who is only marginally useful, as better than nothing.
Here the pawn has to outweigh the difficulty increase caused by his presence.
Also keep in mind that external difficulty offers far more deep and complex gameplay than internal difficulty, because you are doing a lot of different things to plan and prepare for raids, then a lot of complex stuff to handle them when they arrive. But the methods for dealing with a glutton's mental break... don't exist. And mood management in general is a pretty simple aspect of the game.
Quote from: Rulin on July 14, 2018, 12:06:44 PM
It would be great to use the Z-key to mine (harvest) stone and ores instead of L. It is a key you already use to harvest plants.
So why not streamlining the controls here to some extend? Imo you can also reach it better with your left hand, especially people with qwertz keyboards.
Thanks for listening!
best QoL suggestion I've seen in a long time. without really realizing it, having to cross the keyboard for that L-key is probably the most annoying keyboard shortcut I can think of in any game.
Random grammatical note:
"Make sure that they get the best medical possible."
I wrote it down a couple of weeks ago, so you might have already found this.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 14, 2018, 10:55:03 AM
Quote from: robno on July 14, 2018, 04:17:31 AM
QoL thing:
Can the ground type (Soil etc.) be displayed even in the architect tab? It's sometimes quite hard to easily tell where rich soil is etc. and when designating growing zones or even planning buildings it would be helpful to see. I suggest moving the left-hand white text above the architect window temporarily (and therefore shrinking the inventory display area temporarily).
Seconded. This has been bothersome since I've been playing (quite a while.) I'd say it's a top 5 annoyance. Implementing something like Robno suggests would be ... Kreygasm.
Yes, thirdedededed.
Tynan please can you move the tile information from the bottom left corner up dynamically when opening the architect tab? It doesn't matter for the other tabs but when building the tile information is often very important. Having to close the menu every time to see this info is very bothersome.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: Talys on July 14, 2018, 01:16:40 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 07:19:33 AM
[...]
This is the existing design; there's mood penaties for things like banishing or executing your own colonists, especially if they have relationships. We could push this aspect harder and design more around this, but it's just a matter of development time, really.
Not sure if you noticed it, but the "gifting" mechanism you introduced with the revamped faction relation system allows a way of not having any mood penalties for getting rid of colonists - probably just an oversight that you should either not be able to "gift" pawns itself or include a mood penalty.
Original post (with more details & steps to reproduce it) in the Bug Report section: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42480.0
Actually, this should be a feature. Rather than exiling pawns to nowhere drop them in friendly factions.
so you say launching a husband / lover / family member to a different faction should not get any mood hit to the remaining pawns?
It's VERY similar to selling a loved one / banishing a member - pawn becomes world pawn, if at all - it should come with a debuff
I generally haven't found much trouble getting useful pawns. Late in the game, if they can hold a gun, do some form of busywork, and aren't heavily self-destructive, they can find their way into my colony eventually. Early game I'm a bit more picky but I can usually find a way to make someone useful
Mostly what keeps pawns from entering my colony are certain Traits that can kill anyones plausibility. Particularly social issues, any Abrasive or sexist colonist has to be AMAZING to even be considered. Wimp is really bad. That and stacking, I've seen a few pawns with amazing stats and THREE bad traits.
I would like to see everyone have a good and a bad trait, and occasionally a 3rd thats either.
I honestly would love if every trait had an up and downside. They don't have to be equal, but it would at least make all traits more interesting.
E.g. abrasive: pawn insults and slights more, but is also much less affected by getting insulted/slighted
It would still be a "bad" trait to have, create stories, but it would have an unequal upside at least.
And I think every single trait should have an upside. They don't need to have a downside, but if it fits it's really easy to implement: E.g. industrious -> pawn needs 10% more rest.
Another example: Pyromaniac, can't fight fires and sometimes goes on fire starting sprees, however they also sometimes set enemies on fire when fighting (incendiary bullets, torch etc. as explanation if anyone needs one).
About the new changes on crop grow times and amount harvested...
I just wanted to mention that it has made survival WAY to easy.
With one unroofed rich soil spot that works 20 days a year, plus a couple roofed rich soil spots working 24/7 i can get this much food and keep supply stable effortlessly. I have used about a third of the rich soil avaliable on my base.
At this rate, i will be able to use ALL the rest for profit! Since it wont fit my decently big fridge, i will be able to sow and prepare the most expensive food and sell it all to caravans.
This map was not custom made somehow, its the biggest ludicrous playing on Hard.
[attachment deleted due to age]
First - you won't make any real profit, cause traders for some weird reason lost their taste for most meal kinds. Second - how many colonists do you have? It might be too much for you now, but add a dozen of colonists, couple hauling dog squads and you ll have to expand your growing.
Wimps are pretty useful for collecting jelly inside infestations, they can even come back on their own with just minor injuries in the event that they wake up the nest. No rescue needed!
Anyway, I have a problem with chickens, or any egg laying animal since I believe this is common to them. If I'm short of food, and there's grass outside, I let all the herbivores out. Of course if you do that you increase the work of haulers and handlers, because they have to go out and find the pet and train it/shear/whatever, but chickens, their eggs default to forbidden and I have to scan the whole place unforbidding eggs so haulers can pick them, manually, every game day. Milk, wool and chemfuel in the same situation won't spawn forbidden so WHY?.
I realize the reason is that a pawn doesn't need to go and force the egg out of the chicken, and they're outside the home area. Still, those chickens *are* colony animals, so their eggs should default unforbidden and save me some annoying micro.
Quote from: Tass237 on July 13, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: m44v on July 13, 2018, 01:37:14 PM
Opportunistic hauling seems to never kick in when I want it to, like when miners return to rest, I never saw them bring some of the ore with them.
That is probably because the target stockpile is too far from their bedroom (which is their new target location), so they don't haul as it would take them too far out of their way. Try putting a mined metals stockpile closer to the bedrooms (or freezer, if they are going for a meal instead).
Tried that, putting a zone stockpile near their beds or freezer doesn't work. I'm not going to guess how the algorithm works, I'm just gonna say that I find it underwhelming in the situations in want it to work the most (when saving long travel times).
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 14, 2018, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 13, 2018, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: Tass237 on July 13, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
I'm pretty sure that peg legs for animals were removed because it was too easy to gain Medical experience that way. Maybe if peg legs for animals came back, but didn't give Medical experience...
Why? Training medical skill on animals before humans is exactly how it is done IRL.
I'll throw my weight behind this. Medical skill building isn't exactly filled with opportunities. Especially, with the low experience gain on tending with no medicine. So, one would have to sacrifice a great deal, of medicine, to make much headway with this. Seems like it may be a fair balance. Any other thoughts on this experience, lately? I've tried training up medical by rescuing animals I've hunted and knocked down, tending them, and then eating them. It's a small pay-off, for the effort. Just started doing this in the last two versions, if that helps.
Honestly I just want to give back some mobility to my crippled dogs, I don't care about training medics, prisoners and unlucky colonists are for that. If peg legs giving no medical experience is what it takes for make that happen then sure, I'm okay with that. What happens IRL happens in IRL.
Also neutering, I just had to starve a bunch of boomalopes to force them to miscarry... and so many dead puppies, think of the puppies!
Well maybe not meals, but beer could do the trick. Unlimited joy and a little profit for pretty much no effort...
Im with 11 active colonists, i could feed 11 more with just one more growing zone, or maybe half one.
Not that im against this new changes, but it made my "Hard" gameplay so relaxing i figured i should let Tynan know.
Eggs have to be forbidden when laid as they could be fertile. Would you want your haulers to take fertile eggs you want to hatch to the freezer all the time because they were laid unforbidden and they they are now infertile eggs? Also you can just drag the unforbid tool across your paddock once a day no need to find and click the eggs individually.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 14, 2018, 05:01:01 PM
Eggs have to be forbidden when laid as they could be fertile. Would you want your haulers to take fertile eggs you want to hatch to the freezer all the time because they were laid unforbidden and they they are now infertile eggs? Also you can just drag the unforbid tool across your paddock once a day no need to find and click the eggs individually.
You can just forbid eggs in your freezers stockpiles settings. Forbidding eggs by default also prevents colonists from hauling them to a safe breeding room. You can even just disallow fertile eggs in the freezer and let them still store unfertilized ones there.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 14, 2018, 05:01:01 PM
Eggs have to be forbidden when laid as they could be fertile. Would you want your haulers to take fertile eggs you want to hatch to the freezer all the time because they were laid unforbidden and they they are now infertile eggs? Also you can just drag the unforbid tool across your paddock once a day no need to find and click the eggs individually.
If eggs are unfertile they are forbidden anyway, fertile or not they're not forbidden if laid inside the home area. You can forbid fertile eggs from your freezer, which I think is more useful and practical. Although fertile eggs that were ruined by temperature still count as fertile eggs for stockpile and recipes purposes, which I found mildly annoying in some cases.
Quote from: m44v on July 14, 2018, 05:16:08 PM
If eggs are unfertile they are forbidden anyway, fertile or not they're not forbidden if laid inside the home area. You can forbid fertile eggs from your freezer, which I think is more useful and practical. Although fertile eggs that were ruined by temperature still count as fertile eggs for stockpile and recipes purposes, which I found mildly annoying in some cases.
How about change "unfertile egg" to just "egg" and put this unfertile egg and ruined egg in this same "egg" category.
Quote from: alxddd on July 14, 2018, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: Rulin on July 14, 2018, 12:06:44 PM
It would be great to use the Z-key to mine (harvest) stone and ores instead of L. It is a key you already use to harvest plants.
So why not streamlining the controls here to some extend? Imo you can also reach it better with your left hand, especially people with qwertz keyboards.
Thanks for listening!
best QoL suggestion I've seen in a long time. without really realizing it, having to cross the keyboard for that L-key is probably the most annoying keyboard shortcut I can think of in any game.
Thirded, as far as possible keyboard shortcuts should always be reachable by the left hand (or preferably configurable).
This is not just about a greedy character, this is happening with all colonists.
They are describing like this a room fully floored, clean and with decent space. That cant be intended right?
Doesnt seem "unsightly" at all...
[attachment deleted due to age]
while we are on the topic of hotkeys, slaughter animal should not be the same key as hunt. i have accidentally killed off some huskies and when trying to hunt a squirrel in my crops. playing on speed 4 isn't always the greatest...
also the hotkeys are configurable, and the defaults are mostly terrible I feel.
So I tried a few runs with animal swarming, and I found it actually completely ineffective mostly due to raid sizes, at least on extreme anyways. There is just an overwhelming amount of difference. It was so bad I had to decompile the game to find out why things went the way it did.
Case in point: with just a few tribal pawns and all my wealth being corn and kibble, my first non-weak raid at 40 days was 14 elite merceneries in mostly power armor with miniguns, lmgs, and assault rifles. Not joking. I think I usually get like.. 8 crappy pirates with pistols?
Here's the total differences between b18
-many animals no longer haul
-animal upkeep
-animal wealth now counts towards raids, which is now extremely significant
-on top of that, combat animals now count in addition to that with a special combat power rating. Since part of my force was elephants, many of which had yet to be fully trained for war, this was huge as they have 4 times the combat power of boars and the ones in training weren't even useable. From what I can gather, though the elephant's market value is 600, it's total raid contribution counts roughly as if it were 3000 in addition to that.
So basically, that elephant that's still sitting at obediant waiting to be trained counts to raids about as much as an excellent piece of power armor ::) And tallying up my animals' raid contributions at the moment, I probably could have decked out my 7 pawns in power armor, power armor helmets, an charge rifles.
Edit: blugh, code diving makes me sad. Now I also know why the refugee chased raids now feel like suicide:
incidentParms.points *= 1.45f
so if your normal raids are 20 tribals, say hello to 29 ::)
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 14, 2018, 06:48:43 PM
This is not just about a greedy character, this is happening with all colonists.
They are describing like this a room fully floored, clean and with decent space. That cant be intended right?
Doesnt seem "unsightly" at all...
It takes a while to get the need for beauty up. During sleep it doesn't move at all.
Naked Brutality, Extreme, 1064, Temperate Forest, Mountains with Caves and Ants
First three single person raids (2 normal, one refugee event) all decided the best thing to do was attack the insects on the map. RIP raiders. In fairness, they didn't have to go far out of the path to my base to do so... but one raider literally chased a spelopede almost halfway across the map to keep melee attacking it as it fled. At this point I have no real idea what causes the cave ants to decide whether to attack or flee -- they attacked and wrecked the first two raids, then decided to run away from the third raid.
Had a Doe and an Ibex Doe self tame during the first ~12 days -- they were easier to train than I remembered, and reasonably useful against the single mad animal events. I guess I'll keep them around for a bit :)
Watched my level 4 constructor botch building a grave three times in a row. I thought this was removed back in A17 (iirc, it was an issue with graves incorrectly having a quality?), so I'm not sure if bringing this behavior back was intentional or not.
Day 34, finally feeling like things might be off the ground -- I now have three colonists, 3 short bows, and a small base. I'm about to build a water mill! Three person raid arrives - one with a knife, one with a pistol, and one with a pump shotgun on go-juice. I retreat into my storage room to snipe as they attack, and plan to release my animals when they get close. Shotgun raider runs up and shoots my initial colonist Anita in the liver with a 10% chance to hit (I believe it was shot 3, taken as Anita was retreating back into the base).
I survive the raid, but even with a reasonably clean room, one person doctoring and the other cleaning throughout the treatment, Anita gets an infection in her torso. Since she was shot in the liver, that means she's dead (I did have my best doctor tend her with healroot just in case, but no dice). The colony can't survive without her, so RIP.
Perhaps I'm just much worse at 1.0 than previous alphas/betas, but it seems like it's *much* easier for a colonist to get one shot now.
2 strange things I've noticed:
1. People are no longer becoming lovers, even after a long time
2. When you kill all the wildlife for food, nothing new comes in the map anymore, so it's just empty.
Quote from: m44v on July 14, 2018, 04:46:53 PM
Wimps are pretty useful for collecting jelly inside infestations, they can even come back on their own with just minor injuries in the event that they wake up the nest. No rescue needed!
Anyway, I have a problem with chickens, or any egg laying animal since I believe this is common to them. If I'm short of food, and there's grass outside, I let all the herbivores out. Of course if you do that you increase the work of haulers and handlers, because they have to go out and find the pet and train it/shear/whatever, but chickens, their eggs default to forbidden and I have to scan the whole place unforbidding eggs so haulers can pick them, manually, every game day. Milk, wool and chemfuel in the same situation won't spawn forbidden so WHY?.
I realize the reason is that a pawn doesn't need to go and force the egg out of the chicken, and they're outside the home area. Still, those chickens *are* colony animals, so their eggs should default unforbidden and save me some annoying micro.
I think it is the last pure QoL from my Animals Logic not yet implemented. Although in my case they are not only unforbidded, layers are seeking some kind of bed before.
Other things with eggs:
* You can't set production bills to use only ruined eggs.
* Youll want to leave fertilized eggs in place because putting them together changes incubation times. But left on open, they suffer from the weather.
Quote from: Lori1979 on July 14, 2018, 09:22:52 PM
2 strange things I've noticed:
1. People are no longer becoming lovers, even after a long time
2. When you kill all the wildlife for food, nothing new comes in the map anymore, so it's just empty.
Can't confirm, I made two guys gay and they instantly became a couple (lol). Also I usually kill a lot of animals if I want other types to wander in. It just takes a while (few days).
another weird thing: I have a bunch of smokeleaf joints laying around all over the map: FORBIDDEN. Still, one of my pawns goes on a smokeleave binge. How is this possible? If those are forbidden they shouldn't be able to take them!
People on mental breaks ignore forbidden things such as drugs and doors.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 14, 2018, 09:42:27 PM
People on mental breaks ignore forbidden things such as drugs and doors.
If you run the tutorial help-thing it even says it can happen (if i remember correctly, or i read it elsewhere), so its by design.
General thoughts and issues:
1. We can see the amount of leather in crafting bill, why not the same when selecting material for armchairs and the like?
2. There are bionic kidneys or lungs, is this intended?
3. I'm still waiting for that reply on that whole animal combat thing. No rush!
4. Probably a stretch but I hope we can make bulk foods/drugs instead of using the stool micro meta.
5. Animals should default to not follow/owned because some animals are far too valuable to go out in the wild.
6. A deep drill that has no more resources to gather should not auto-forbid. Also, you CAN'T reinstall them if they forbid, which can really waste power if players are forgetful as goldfish like me.
7. When doing an operation, I usually micromanage my best doctor to do it. However, if you choose a doctor to do it, while ANOTHER doctor is holding the prosthesis, it doesn't tell you. The player gets confused and seconds later noticed the medic with 7 Medicine already hauling the prosthesis and doing surgery. In short, the doctor holding the prosthesis should drop it if you force-order your best doctor to do it. It gives you a "required material missing" message while in actually the 7 Medicine medic is holding it in the first place.
8. Armor for head/body should be a seperate tab. Not a big deal now, but it will be when mods update.
9. Is it possible to make more microtabs for crafting? Even in vanilla 1.0, the large amount of bills shown after everything is research is still a lot. I'd rather have stuff like flak>flak pants/flak vest/flak jacket. Same goes for "longblades" for the smithy and "torso/pants/headwear" for the tailoring bench, for example. Just look at any modded game in B18 for ludicrousness.
Am I only one with OCD who can't look at it?
Another caravan attempt. 2 pawns. One got plague, another got mechanites.
I have 5 pack animals and 44/347 kg, why carried pawn slows caravan down that much?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 10:34:05 PM
Am I only one with OCD who can't look at it?
Probably. I can't even see it.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 14, 2018, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 10:34:05 PM
Am I only one with OCD who can't look at it?
Probably. I can't even see it.
Irremovable stone trash on smoothed floor and contrast between smoothed and brick walls.
Hey, are manhunter animals supposed to attack closed doors when colonists get close to them now?
(https://i.imgur.com/VIrI4BJm.jpg)
I don't know why it is.
when it began to rain or snow. It's looks bad texture.
can i fix it?
Quote from: dritter on July 14, 2018, 11:25:59 PM
Hey, are manhunter animals supposed to attack closed doors when colonists get close to them now?
They've always done that. If they see you going through the door, they'll try to break it down.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 14, 2018, 10:34:05 PM
Am I only one with OCD who can't look at it?
Another caravan attempt. 2 pawns. One got plague, another got mechanites.
I have 5 pack animals and 44/347 kg, why carried pawn slows caravan down that much?
Yeah, I hate those too. Luckily I think there's a mod somewhere that gets rid of the little debris looking pieces on smoothed stone.
I have no idea what is it, but it looks ugly.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Had an interesting series of events in my current play-through. I sent 2 soldiers off to get an item stash supposedly unguarded. It had an ambush of 2 mechanoids. What I didn't like was the 'ambush' consisted of the game just spawning units in the open right in front of me. Not there one second, there the next, just popped into existence. That's kind of bullshit. Not that mattered much as they had no chance given the equipment they had. A few quadrums later I got a crashed ship part that put me up against 3 mechanoids for a colony of 7, and somehow I was expected to defeat 2 mechs with 2 colonists out on the road with no defense?
So, that was annoying but it's not the end. After the second pawn got downed, it immediately kicked me out of the map and told me the caravan was lost. I had assumed this meant the pawns were dead. I got mood impacts that said 2 colonists were 'banished in such a way that they'd never survive.' One of my colonists had a mood debuff because their friend died. So, I assumed even though the map despawned with them down but not dead, that they'd be dead.
But no, a few days later I get a prison camp request from one of the pawns who was downed. It wasn't just a new pawn with the same pre-genned named, it say he was formerly part of my colony and after rescuing him, he had the exact same stats and skills. Interestingly, all of his social was reset and considered everyone strangers again. Also, while resucing him, one of my pawns shot him in the face as soon as the door opened, as apparently prisoners of a faction count as members of that faction, and since the faction is hostile, your pawns will automatically shoot the people you're trying to rescue. That should probably be fixed.
Much later, at least a couple of in game years, I got another rescue mission for the second pawn and successfully rescued her, too.
So it seems like if a pawn is downed on a caravan, and the caravan is wiped out and the map despawns with them alive, the pawn is considered dead by the colony, but actually still alive in game and can pop up again. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but it could probably be handled in a way that's more consistent. If the pawn is dead it's social shouldn't reset and I shouldn't have pawns getting debuffs saying that pawn died.
Also, it would be nice if those neigh on unwinnable away missions didn't happen, especially ones that instantly spawn enemies out of the blue on top of you.
Hello, I found it annoying that insect meat was not separately counted in the butcher do until bills (at least I could not find any other way). Often I want to keep some stock of insect meat and some stock of regular meat, but rarely do I want to keep a combined stock number. This feature was already in the "Butchers Can Count Meat" mod. I presume it would also help to separate human meat.
Quote from: Orange_Mushroom on July 14, 2018, 11:42:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VIrI4BJm.jpg)
I don't know why it is.
when it began to rain or snow. It's looks bad texture.
can i fix it?
Ah yeah, I saw that. Wasn't sure if it was extra zoom in 1.0 or if it was always like that or what, but it sure stands out, blurry and pixelated.
Quote from: zizard on July 15, 2018, 01:39:09 AM
Hello, I found it annoying that insect meat was not separately counted in the butcher do until bills (at least I could not find any other way). Often I want to keep some stock of insect meat and some stock of regular meat, but rarely do I want to keep a combined stock number. This feature was already in the "Butchers Can Count Meat" mod. I presume it would also help to separate human meat.
For now there is a workaround for it with different stockpiles for both types of meat and "count only in X stockpile" setting in butcher's bill.
But yes, it'd be great to have it the way you suggested.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 15, 2018, 03:39:22 AM
For now there is a workaround for it with different stockpiles for both types of meat and "count only in X stockpile" setting in butcher's bill.
But yes, it'd be great to have it the way you suggested.
Acutally I checked for "count only in X stockpile" and couldn't find it.
When colonists have hypothermia, I think they should wait longer in the safe temperature. This saves having to manually keep them there until they're only shivering or better.
Also, there was a problem where the colonist went to the safe temperature, but when he opened the door it became unsafe as the room had cooled, so he went to another room, but the same kept happening. He should have waited in the room for a bit longer until it became safe again.
Quote from: robno on July 15, 2018, 03:58:57 AM
When colonists have hypothermia, I think they should wait longer in the safe temperature.
Likewise when it's 130F outside take off your frickin' parka. The apparel tab is a list of allowed things, not a list of required things. I have to every summer remember (by being told someone has heat stroke) to remove parkas from outfits, and every winter (by being told colonists need warm clothing) to put them back in.
At least give us a "too warm clothing" warning for summer.
"Summer temperatures are expected to reach over 100 degrees. You may want to tell your moron colonists it's okay to stop wearing muffalo parkas."
Finally launched the ship today, 540 days into my save file! Cassandra medium, default 3 colonist start, and a temperate forest with a river running through it so I could test out the new watermill generators.
I prepared for the 15 days of hell by installing turrets and IEDs in two chokepoints that I have in my perimeter wall to funnel in raiders. I also installed turrets inside my actual base in the event of drop pods into the center of my base. I also stockpiled a bunch of psychic lances to deal with any rocket launcher wielders or sappers. All colonists were equipped with power armor helmets, and my best shooters also got power armor suits.
With all the preparations I made, the ending sequence was still pretty tough, but I never felt like it was unmanageable. I got 7 raids (plus an infestation) throughout those 15 days, averaging out to 1 raid every 2 days. Additionally, half my colonists caught the flu, and another with muscle parasites, and I had to deal with an extreme psychic drone. There were mental breaks abound, but usually they were during downtimes between raids.
Out of my 21 colonists, I was able to launch all of them! I technically did have one death... from a friendly fire sniper turret (doh!). Those things have amazing single target damage, but things can go really wrong if friendly fire is involved. Thankfully, I was able to patch him up with a resurrector mech serum after the fight ended. I did have a super close call with one of my colonists almost getting kidnapped, but I blew an insanity lance and two shock lances on her would-be kidnappers. Fortunately, this bought enough time for one of my colonists to come rescue her.
And additionally, here's my wealth graph, if this of any interest. I used up about 2000 out of my original 4000 steel stockpiled, along with a bunch of uranium and plasteel. Since my wealth was dropping pretty rapidly throughout the time period, the raids in the last couple of days were pretty easy compared to the initial storm.
Thanks again Tynan for this fantastic experience! Now time to try it again... maybe I'll do an ice sheet this time. :D
(https://i.gyazo.com/0666e4f62454806741dc40bbe171214b.png)
Mini-turrets are nerfed again? A mad gazelle attacked two of them and managed to destroy one.
This is a minuscule detail but..."Unhappy Nudity" when a pawn is changing clothes is unnecessary. It's a few seconds notification, but better if you give it some delay so it doesn't clog the envelope column at the right.
I want to leave some experience-based feedback on the colonist usefulness and internal vs. external threats. Playing on Cassandra Medium, Rich Explorer scenario, started around the build 1950, population 11, 212 days old, 0 deaths so far.
I feel like the game is really pushing me to get new colonists. Recently, I got 3 "Wanderer joins" events (banished one wake-up addict). I remember havine more of these earlier, too. Before that I got 3 escape pods and took 2 (see my population graph). I'm trying to keep my colony compact but despite that, it somehow grew to 11 without me trying to do anything and even rejecting some people. It seems like I always get somebody - sooner or later - and the number is high enough that I can really afford to reject pawns I don't like. I feel like there is nothing pushing me to recruit or keep useless pawns. Maybe changing the flow of the recruits (i.e. more rescue quests and less "zero-cost" recruits such as escape pods and joined wanderers) would make players to take even the less ideal candidates and actually make some effort to get more pawns.
Also I found out I never really use the Social tab and don't pay much attention to the relations between colonists. There were social fights, marriages, breakups, affairs, etc. which is fun but it's all random and there is nothing for me to do about it (maybe keeping colonist mood/joy up prevents social fights, idk). Therefore I just concentrate on building the colony and defending against external threats. I think the social part would be much more interesting if players could somehow influence it. Like appointing leaders and using them to resolve conflicts between colonists, for example. The relations and social system seems pretty deep and it's fun to read through the Social tab but there is no incentive for players to actualy open it and take action.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone!
I need to agree with the above - social relationships matter too little in Rimworld. Tynan, you said you wanted more internal threats, internal drama, internal gameplay. The relationships between colonists are a huge hole right now which could be filled with things to provide more internal gameplay.
There isn't even a mood buff or debuff if a colonist is well liked, disliked - or from the other perspective, a mood impact for being among friends or being among rivals.
Quote-Insects will now go into hypothermic slowdown instead of getting hypothermia
So the type of creature most vulnerable to cold is more resistant to cold than mammals? Why would you do this?
Quote from: TrashMan on July 15, 2018, 07:08:18 AM
So the type of creature most vulnerable to cold is more resistant to cold than mammals? Why would you do this?
Cause you could freeze those pests, which doesn't leave much chance to drama and tragedy we all like so much. Plus its to make them viable for colder climate biomes too.
That also ties into stuff like "disfigured". Even if people are friends and have known each other for years, they'll suddenly hate someone who had his ear shot off. That would be a harsh opinion even towards a stranger
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 15, 2018, 06:44:24 AM
I need to agree with the above - social relationships matter too little in Rimworld. Tynan, you said you wanted more internal threats, internal drama, internal gameplay. The relationships between colonists are a huge hole right now which could be filled with things to provide more internal gameplay.
There isn't even a mood buff or debuff if a colonist is well liked, disliked - or from the other perspective, a mood impact for being among friends or being among rivals.
I feel that Psychopath would become a mandatory trait for a successful colony should anything be done in that direction.
Quote from: Serenity on July 15, 2018, 07:16:22 AM
That also ties into stuff like "disfigured". Even if people are friends and have known each other for years, they'll suddenly hate someone who had his ear shot off. That would be a harsh opinion even towards a stranger
To a stranger I think it's normal - I mean that isn't the open "said out loud" opinion of the pawns, it's what they think. If I see someone disfigured I wouldn't tell him he is ugly or even mention the issue, but I would probably have negative feelings when I see him/her, either because it looks unpleasant, I have pity or I fear something like this could happen to me (just examples).
Hey add a stealth system which manipulates a pawn's field of vision drastically, especially in dark areas. This is crucial in hunting, raiding, or using guerrilla tactics when being raided.
:D
Thanks for listenening!
Quote from: Ra66itInc on July 15, 2018, 08:42:32 AM
Hey add a stealth system which manipulates a pawn's field of vision drastically, especially in dark areas.
And of course, simulating when pawns blink means we'll be able to do a Weeping Angels mod.
I had what might be a bug where some of my stockpiles didn't have an Allow Rotten option to check or uncheck, and others did. Let me know if you need a file or if I'm just missing something.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 11:27:18 AM
One thing to bear in mind regarding pawn usefulness: I'll always try to keep the game balanced. So if difficulty was added to one area by making more pawns with problems (or other internal colony/survival challenges), difficulty would be removed from other areas (e.g. toning down raids).
It's not about just making the game harder by adding more pawn selection challenges, it's about shifting the difficulty that's there from massive raid defense towards internal management.
All that said, I've no concrete plans to change anything on this soon, there's a lot more immediate things to solve for 1.0.
Wait what? So what your saying is that there are more things to work on AFTER 1.0 comes out?
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 15, 2018, 05:14:36 AM
This is a minuscule detail but..."Unhappy Nudity" when a pawn is changing clothes is unnecessary. It's a few seconds notification, but better if you give it some delay so it doesn't clog the envelope column at the right.
Yeah, this is the case for a lot of notifications, e.g. the break risk - they can change very fast leading to lots of sounds being played.
I agree that social relationships should be fleshed out a little bit - the friendly chat is a good start. Maybe a very good friend, or someone with very high social skill, could have an option to try and snap a colonist out of one of the milder mental breaks? There could be a backfire risk of turning it worse, depending on social skill.
Fueled Buildings are driving me crazy. I really wish there was an option to prevent refueling.
Don't get me wrong. It is great that fueled Tribal buildings no longer autodestruct once they are empty.
But having to destroy them, to prevent the waste of precious fuel in times of need is really a turn off.
Destroying and rebuilding my torches or campfires during a heatwave, or the same for coolers in winter is an unneeded hassle.
The same goes for other fueled production buildings, though suspending all bills at least prevents using more fuel.
A siege.
Friendly tribals are arriving to help. Three of them got downed, and I took them to hospital.
One got better and decided to leave, taking one of the downed with him.
Near the edge of the map carried one got better and returned to the hospital.
There probably should be some more consistency.
Dead by infection (instant death) glitch .
[attachment deleted due to age]
Also now pawns sleep in wrong direction on the sleeping post
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: NagashUD on July 15, 2018, 10:28:24 AM
Dead by infection (instant death) glitch .
Not exactly a glitch. HP of the body is 10/40 which is 25%. Infection reduces efficiency by 30%, so effective efficiency is below 0. Still, it makes infections on vital parts much more dangerous - pawn usually dies way before it reaches 100%.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 15, 2018, 10:39:15 AM
Quote from: NagashUD on July 15, 2018, 10:28:24 AM
Dead by infection (instant death) glitch .
Not exactly a glitch. HP of the body is 10/40 which is 25%. Infection reduces efficiency by 30%, so effective efficiency is below 0. Still, it makes infections on vital parts much more dangerous - pawn usually dies way before it reaches 100%.
Oh ok thanks for the explaination, rough tho :p
Quote from: Lori1979 on July 14, 2018, 09:22:52 PM
2 strange things I've noticed:
1. People are no longer becoming lovers, even after a long time
2. When you kill all the wildlife for food, nothing new comes in the map anymore, so it's just empty.
people are still becoming lovers. I just had my second favorite reason for becoming a lover. One complimented the others relationship status. I imagine it sounded like "hey baby, I can't help but notice you are single. I can fix that for you."
Animals won't spawn into the map with temps outside their comfort range, generally. In 1.0 this has been changed somehow, and heat waves will leave the map empty. Cold will also empty your map, most of my winter is with no animals.
I noticed the sneaky change that Uranium was buffed as a material for weapons! Now it has way superior blunt damage and the Cooldown isn't as painfully slow, also even matching damage with Plasteel. Now I have to play around with it some more to see if it is useful enough. Still a terrible armor material.
But blunt weapons still aren't super useful, despite their new stun ability. Since full covering Power armor isn't exactly a common threat where the mace actually really shines, and spears are seemingly better against Mechanoids (They hit the Artificial brain more often), blunt weapons can be good but the moments they are still remain limited since those moments rarely show. Power armor is outrageously rare in raids (as far as I have seen). I think there should be a raid variant where they come more armored than usual, or that their raider equipment budgets are raised, but the amount of raiders are less?
Also nice that you are reviewing the Opinion system, it feels a little barebones. The flavor when they chat is hilarious, same when they insult eachother, but I can't help but feel like more could be done. More reasons to why people hate or love eachother other than talking about stuff like Animal Sexuality or eating without tables.
Maybe there can be that they compliment peoples services they provide, like holding somebodies Excellent+ weapon, getting well tended by somebody (100% tend quality or something), these buffs are relatively small, but a doctor would be a little extra respected, don't you think, but an organ-harvesting doctor, not so much.
Pemmican is still better than survival meals. Nutrition efficiency of pemmican is 160%, of survival meals is 150%. Cooking pemmican is two times faster. In addition, pemmican is not atomic, so when you are taking small animals with you they would eat as much as they need without wasting nutrition. And current speed mechanics greatly encourages it - taking fast animals greatly boosts speed even if they can't carry. Sure, survival meals are a bit lighter per nutrition, but it is rarely critical. Survival meals are fine without refrigeration, but it is usually a minor concern.
Also, when you use hauling animals they would eat your meals a lot when allowed to storages. Again, since many of them are smaller than humans, when they eat meals they waste nutrition, but not with pemmican. In fact, letting carnivores eat pemmican is the optimal choice. Kibble is awful with 125% nutrition efficiency. Even if you use hay instead of corn it would be on par with pemmican, not better. The only reason to use kibble is when you use some rancid meat (human or insect) and don't want to mix it with your food, but this is more a workaround for lack of control.
Got an escape pod. Refugee, right in the middle of treatment, decided to stand up and self-tend instead of letting a good doctor to work with medicine and on a medical bed.
After healing he decided to leave and hit four traps on his way. I guess "incapable of intellectual" was well deserved.
And another minor thing that'd be a nice change, yeah, we get that barracks do not allow for privacy but people *really* do not like Barracks except when in a prison, come on it's not that bad you dumb pawns. The least thing theBarracks could do, is to give immunity to 'Disturbed sleep' to make it desirable sometime.
Quote from: NagashUD on July 15, 2018, 10:31:30 AM
Also now pawns sleep in wrong direction on the sleeping post
sammy is in full health and that appears to be a medical prisoner sleeping spot. he just happened to fall asleep there.
Why is every enemy so set on destroying any building that belongs to my faction? Insects, pirates, tribals, mechanoids... Not that I really complain, though - it stretches their forces thin, and they usually don't even react when I come to take them down until it is too late. And allows setting up traps using furniture as bait.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 15, 2018, 12:36:51 PM
Why is every enemy so set on destroying any building that belongs to my faction? Insects, pirates, tribals, mechanoids... Not that I really complain, though - it stretches their forces thin, and they usually don't even react when I come to take them down until it is too late. And allows setting up traps using furniture as bait.
I've noticed this a lot as well. I've had raiders walk past my base to attack a structure I built to take on a psychic ship. I think it is possibly due to the changes to make killboxes less viable. I've seen raiders start attacking random parts of my wall and I have one side of my base left open so they can attack my crops (this is bait as the river slows them hugely it's like shooting fish in a barrel) I've gone back to building multiple doors spaced along my walls to deal with the random raiders makes breaking raids easier if you only fight raiders one or two at a time.
IEDs have "wild animals would avoid this" in the description, while deadfall traps don't. Yet it looks like there is no actual AI difference. Animals only trigger all of them when in manhunter state.
Not a fan of the increased difficulty on the events to save someone be chased who joins you. Events to get more pawns already feel lessened to me and in the early game when you need more people the most some of the raids that follow said pawn of questionable usability have been devastating.
TREE SOWING NEEDS TO BE FASTER PLZ! :D I'm fine with choco tree's being slow, just not the normal ones :(
As i've noticed, caravans leaving your map now automatically change their expectations to very low now. Thats really nice. My next suggestion would be to allow us to craft or buy some kind of portable games, like cards, dominos and small chess boards you could take on your journey, so when resting colonists could use those to fulfill their recreation.
Got a pirate raid. After taking few losses got "pirates are fleeing" message, but they are not fleeing. They scattered attacking and burning random buildings. Again, totally ignoring me shooting them.
We all know that they are here just to cause damage and are 100% disposable, but that's just giving up any pretense of having any sense, really.
I think i found a bug in a new "What a trader will buy" tab. It shows an outlander city is ready to buy all kinds of meals, while in reality when i came there with 100 lavish meals to sell - i have no option to do so (it doesn't even show that i have those lavish meals in trade menu). I can't either sell or gift them.
On that note - Tynan, please allow trading in meals, chemfuel, furniture and other things back. Its really weird that bulk goods trader caravan won't buy even survival meals. That change was absolutely unneeded. Real trade shouldn't be nearly as limited and neutered. I understand pirate or combat traders not being interested in beds or meals, but bulk goods traders should really be. Thats really not how trade should work. It just limits you to selling either stone art (because wood has been brutally destroyed) or drugs to make money, which feels rather boring.
200 days into ludicrous, Hard, Boreal forest gameplay.
Issues regarding "broken game design" sure exist but its not anything so dramatic.
It is mostly about stupid AI:
1. Sappers trying to dig in a mountain, that has an open path just besides the digging spot, but neither that or the path they are trying to carve actually lead to my base. Only to a massive hive.
2. Some raiders could follow the open path that lead directly to my base, but instead they just go to the same hive, which is blocked by a 4 squares thick wall from my base.
Cant think of anything else for now. Everything else seem to have performed normally.
Another big issue not regarding ludicrous breaking game design is insect's reaction to fire. I set on fire a nearby tree, so that it would expand to their hive and kill them without me attacking directly. They got triggered anyway.
That is quite dangerous since if another group of raiders come and set on fire their hive, i will get a 180 (not exagerating) non-stop insect assault and that WILL be a colony wipe. This is a situation that BEGS the player to save-scum.
Also, performance is totally broken when playing at x3 speed but mostly because of the 30 Hive infestation.
If not for that and my shitty i5-4440 processor, it would work almost normally.
I'm having no trade ships at all in 2-3 years after i built my comms console. It might be just Randy (hard), but it's way longer than the usual gap, so i suspect it might be a bug.
Edit: Nvm, got a ship, everything works.
I recently purchased Rimworld and became a fast addict... I do not know if this issue is new to 1.0, but I have located something odd:
Rough Hewn Stone and Rough (stonetype) floors do not seem to get dirty, ever.
I started a new game over the weekend and it still seems to be the case. I have a 5x5 Kitchen dug into a cliffside, 3 floor tiles are wood (covered dirt that was showing). The 3 wood tiles are the ONLY floors in the kitchen to get -any- dirt/trash/filth/etc on them. The only exception which seems to actually dirty the natural stone ground is blood from animals/butchering (My butcher station is a room next to my kitchen).
I have been able to reproduce the clean-kitchen effect in various versions of the 1.0 beta thus far. As much as I appreciate not getting food poisoning every single day, I thought this issue was worth bringing up!
Also, sorry! I'm a bit long-winded (long-typed?) for a noob!
tl;dr
in 1.0 natural stone ground tiles do not seem to get dirty.
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 15, 2018, 01:23:32 PM
I'm fine with choco tree's being slow, just not the normal ones :(
Making chocolate more difficult to get is better balanced by having a bit of a production chain. Like having to cook cocoa beans at the stove by a cook.
In reality making chocolate is quite complicated. The beans are fermented to make them less bitter (and that's just the first step). The game could actually do that with the beer barrels. But that's probably too involved. Just "cooking" them would work though to add extra time
I just had a "Zzztt..." event on a power line under stone walls, there was a standard Standing Lamp next to it, so it caught fire. Im fine with that. But then when the standing lamp started to burn the room temperature rose +5C within a 6x7 bedroom. I know you want overheating when theres an internal fire...but that was crazy. The fire got put off right away thanks to my carefully managed work tab and proximity of my colonists but the rise of temperature was awkward.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 15, 2018, 02:33:09 PM
please allow trading in meals, chemfuel, furniture and other things back.
Unless something changed in last update, you can still sell lavish and packaged meals to exotic traders. Bulk traders will still buy clothing, furniture and chemfuel.
Clothing is a good choice now, as the work per piece was reduced, but kept the same value. Devilstrand duster has a market value of 650, but takes 1/2 the time of a large sculpture.
I had a bulk goods caravan, that didn't want to buy neither chemfuel, nor several beds. I ll check it once more. And i also traveled to a settlement which actually didn't want to buy lavish meals at all, despite the tab saying they will.
I dislike the idea of only exotic caravans buying meals and only survival or lavish ones. Feels wrong. If the reason behind is that simple meals for example don't last long - then why exactly bulk goods guys happily buy off the meat, which will spoil even faster? Or lavish meals which spoil just the same. I fail to grasp the logic. You should be able to sell little less than everything you have, save for stones and corpses to bulk goods (and even raiders you can chop up and sell as meat weirdly enough), those are more or less "general things" merchants. Otherwise the answer to successful trade is only drugs really - all kinda of caravans buy those, from combat ones to bulk goods and exotic, grow those and you won't miss.
I d really like the system to allow selling everything to anyone, but with huge markup difference, so selling things to the "right kind" was profitable, while selling it to "wrong" trader could allow to quickly scrounge for some silver, even though losing some of item's worth, to buy that one thing you like a lot, but don't have enough silver to afford.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 15, 2018, 01:50:47 PM
As i've noticed, caravans leaving your map now automatically change their expectations to very low now. Thats really nice. My next suggestion would be to allow us to craft or buy some kind of portable games, like cards, dominos and small chess boards you could take on your journey, so when resting colonists could use those to fulfill their recreation.
+1 on this, it's great to see small improvements like this being implemented from feedback.
As regards some of the earlier discussion re pawns etc, I would also like to add support for the "more carrot than stick" approach to colonist relations.
What I've noticed is that I rarely check out my pawn's social tabs to see who is friends with whom. It would be great to see some positive buffs from having a lot of friends/negatives from having too many rivals.
It would also be nice to see something like a "cohesive" or "close knit" colony-wide buff. If you have a small group of pawns who've been together for a while it would make sense for them to feel close to each other and get a positive buff from being around each other. It would also mean that adding a whole bunch of new pawns would bring that mood down because it suddenly disrupts that friendship group.
It would be good to have reasons to check out to see how your pawns are getting along and to see if there are any disruptive elements that are doing more harm than good.
Some other things that would be interesting:
Make it so that the "refugee" event can spawn more than one pawn, for eg a pair of lovers or friends. This would be interesting because you could end up with, say, a great doctor and her depressive, alcoholic husband or something.
If there's a relationship in another clan, make it so that pawns could decide they want to go join them. This could be where a pawn asks to join you, or also where one of your pawns wants to leave to go be with their relations, perhaps with a mechanic where you can ask the other faction if they would be willing to let that pawn come over instead.
The current plant gen is still a bit low. I can still safely hunt boomrats and Boomalopes in the temperate maps. By safely, I mean I can kill the animal, grab it's corpse without much risk of being set on fire, and the resulting conflagration will be pretty much contained to that area of the map. I am no longer afraid that boom animals will burn the map down in a forest. I used to only hunt these animals when it was raining, and openly hunt them in the arid and desert biomes where the fire wouldn't spread.
Also, grenades dont say in the combat log who threw them. I had a rats gone wild on the map event. I had forgotten one of my colonists was carrying grenades. A moment after the last rat died, a mysterious explosion killed one of my colonists. It took me a few min to figure out that the shredding had come from the grenades, and not the local boomalope. The only note in the game from the specific thing that killed them was that they were shredded and died from it.
Does it seem to anyone else that enemies desire to attack doors is quite a bit lower in 1.0? Especially with manhunter packs, even if I go out and take some shots at them, I'll get one animal beating on the door for a couple seconds before giving up. I remember in previous versions they'd be super pissed and keep banging on it for quite a while, which made manhunter packs a lot more of a challenge to deal with. This is the first time I haven't had to actively repair doors to keep them from breaking when trying to pick off a manhunter pack. Not saying it's a bad thing, but that's been my experience.
I also noticed that enemies often seem to get confused and freeze up for a second or two when they lose sight of their target. This started a few patches ago I think in 1.0. Only noticed due to peeking in and out of doors a lot.
Quote from: NotTheMattGuy on July 15, 2018, 03:19:31 PM
I recently purchased Rimworld and became a fast addict... I do not know if this issue is new to 1.0, but I have located something odd:
Rough Hewn Stone and Rough (stonetype) floors do not seem to get dirty, ever.
My current playthrough is in the mountains, and I'll tell you that the natural stone was getting completely filthy all the time. Are you sure your pawns haven't just had ample time to clean and you haven't noticed it? Maybe it's a real issue that doesn't affect everyone for whatever reason though.
Quote from: Tynan on July 14, 2018, 05:06:14 AMAs for the point, handling flawed useless people is part of the game. RimWorld is not intended to be an RTS. If you want a game where every unit is a fungible optimized robot, there are some great RTSs I can recommend. However, if you want a game with dynamic characters and generated story, that means some of the characters will be more useful than others, and some will be worse than useless, just as people are in stories. It means many of the problems you face will come from inside your group, not outside, just as in stories. In truth I'd like to turn RW more in this direction, because as we've discussed here, external attacks are still far too big a part of the game. There average pawn in this game really should be worse than they are, and many more should be entirely useless (and I mean actually useless, not, "he can only research and art" useless).
I just wanted to say, thanks for this approach to your game. A lot of us fell in love with the game, not because it's a needs-juggling RTS, but because of the challenges that come with making a bunch of flawed people work together towards something. That there's enjoyment is chaos and failure.
A good chunk of the top-downloaded mods out there are glorified min/max toolkits, used to maximize pawn strengths, and minimize their flaws. Clearly many enjoy playing this way, with grinding towards a fleet of perfected robots, but a lot of us enjoy the flawed internal turmoil that comes with having to host a bunch of lazy assholes.
I'd love to see the game take less of a combat-focused direction, but so far there are plenty of settings to satisfy more internal-focused stories so I can't complain, and I thank you for that.
I just discovered the hoopstone ring in god mode. There is no research to unlock it and it wasnt on the patch notes...
I wish that the raids that chase refugees are large, so you can't easily beat them and take prisoners, but I would like if they retreat very early, after maybe one death or a few bad wounds. Basically they chased the person and they can take on your colony but they aren't willing to lose half or more of their men for that one guy.
That would make that incident more fun, because it wouldn't just be "another raid" like every other, but it would be an overwhelmingly strong raid, which retreats very easily though.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 15, 2018, 06:25:28 PM
I just discovered the hoopstone ring in god mode. There is no research to unlock it and it wasnt on the patch notes...
Hoopstone is a tribal-only equivalent of horseshoes pin
Hello, putting aside the fact that allies drop in terribly small numbers, could they please take care to not land on my items, or make their pods not do damage? Pic somewhat related, they landed on antigrains. Ally in drop pod was unharmed, pod did not open until after explosion.
[attachment deleted due to age]
One of the most fun games of Rimworld I've had in a long time, with plenty of sex and violence:
Naked Brutality, Temperate Forest, 1964)
I get an early refugee event, which happens about 5 seconds before the second raid. Thankfully Bluntsworth isn't worthless, and we're able to fend off the simultaneous raids.
Day 21: Bluntsworth and Hillary become lovers. Double bed goes in.
Day 22: 3rd raid, one pirate with a good pistol, good hyperweave pants, good glak vest, and good cloth shirt and hat. About half of the shots from my sad little bows that manage to hit are completely deflected. Eventually he goes down, but not before burning up all my healroot and berries.
Day 23: Bluntsworth rejects Hillary's proposal. Hillary came on way too strong I suppose. Double bed goes out.
A couple more raids -- we get Von through a refugee event (everyone almost dies, but not quite). Bluntsworth gets an infection, and then we have to fight a tribal raid a day or so later, right as he needs a treatment. I hustle everyone into the dining room, moving a bed and some healroot along with us. Von treats Bluntsworth as Hillary tries to fend of the tribesmen. More crops burn down, but no one dies.
Day 28: Bluntsworth starts up a relationship with Hillary again by talking about how smart he is. Hillary is still heartbroken, but decides that obviously Bluntsworth is really smart, because he wants to get back together with her. Double bed goes back in.
Day 30: Hillary gets malaria. *sigh* Hillary gets some good treatments from Bluntsworth, and even though she gets food poisoning she pulls through.
Note: I feel like food poisoning is "good" now. I definitely know when it happens, and take steps to try to prevent it, but it's nor so frequent that it kills my colonies (as it seemed in earlier 1.0 revisions).
Day 33: Von goes berserk. Bluntsworth and Hillary, still feeble with Malaria, beat the shit of out of Von because he's acting crazy right outside their bedroom. Bluntsworth proposes as he tends Hillary's new bruises and ongoing Malaria. Hillary accepts.
This couple is fantastic. Hilarious. I'm seriously considering turning the difficulty way down so that I don't lose them.
Quote from: zizard on July 15, 2018, 07:27:18 PM
Hello, putting aside the fact that allies drop in terribly small numbers, could they please take care to not land on my items, or make their pods not do damage? Pic somewhat related, they landed on antigrains. Ally in drop pod was unharmed, pod did not open until after explosion.
That is flipping hilarious. Also to everyone complaining about insects not freezing to death I present this gem: https://phys.org/news/2013-05-dont-beetles-winter.html
In nature it is actually quite common for some species to be able to freeze and thaw with little to no ill effects. That being said they will be quite slow to unable to move when that cold.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 15, 2018, 10:03:11 AM
Fueled Buildings are driving me crazy. I really wish there was an option to prevent refueling.
Don't get me wrong. It is great that fueled Tribal buildings no longer autodestruct once they are empty.
But having to destroy them, to prevent the waste of precious fuel in times of need is really a turn off.
Destroying and rebuilding my torches or campfires during a heatwave, or the same for coolers in winter is an unneeded hassle.
The same goes for other fueled production buildings, though suspending all bills at least prevents using more fuel.
a seemingly easy solution to this would be to create the F key shortcut for these refuelable things. I don't remember the toggle name, but you know what I mean.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 15, 2018, 06:25:28 PM
I just discovered the hoopstone ring in god mode. There is no research to unlock it and it wasnt on the patch notes...
I would love to be able to build the hoopstone ring as a non-tribal if only for that sweet shooting practice.
Did the new ship sequence
Was good, challenging but definitely doable. I had a lot of get out of jail free cards with warheads and rocket launchers.
There was a bug. I placed a downed colonist into one of the ship caskets. The casket with that person was left behind despite it saying nobody had been left behind. Became a regular cryptosleep casket. Colonist's name was up on the "escaped" thing too
Cassandra Hard, raid count
Regular sapper x1
Regular pirate x1
Multi-group sapper x3, 2 delayed
Pirate raid colony leader x1
Mixed Mech raid x8
Drop pod mixed mech raid x3
All centipede raid x1
All scythers raid x2
All scythers multi-group x1
Psychic drone extreme x1
Flashstorm x1
Mad animal x2
Please buff caravans! They are rarely worth it, I just stay at my home base and never caravan.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 15, 2018, 02:33:09 PM
It just limits you to selling either stone art (because wood has been brutally destroyed) or drugs to make money, which feels rather boring.
You forgot human leather dusters. Those would never go out of fashion.
Quote from: mcduff on July 15, 2018, 04:09:58 PM
Make it so that the "refugee" event can spawn more than one pawn, for eg a pair of lovers or friends. This would be interesting because you could end up with, say, a great doctor and her depressive, alcoholic husband or something.
Ugh... Refugee event is already never worth it. Why make it worse?
Been playing a Tundra 10/60 map on Cassy Rough for about three years. In case you're still looking for adaption graphs, mine's attached. Seven (soon eight) living colonists and one dead. My comments from this play:
- It would be nice to be able to force a downed pawn or prisoner into clothes. I stripped a downed defender on an outpost assault and then decided to take them with me after all. They died to frostbite a short time later, even though I had suitable clothing I could have put them in for the journey.
- Floors can be dirtier than dirt floors. Until you have the pawnticks to spare for cleaning, it seems you're better-off unfloored. That seems odd.
- I delay flooring because, on top of what I said above, it's very expensive. They cost about as much as walls but you need many more of them. Wood floors are the only ones that could be called "cheap," but that only applies to biomes with plentiful trees. Maybe flagstone should be cheaper than it is.
- Food poisoning doesn't occur for the first year or so. This seems a bit over-generous, maybe just do that for a season. When it started happening I was left confused and wondering why my food was suddenly so bad. Eventually I deduced that it had to be a honeymoon ending.
- Trees grow very poorly on cold maps. Tundras are supposed to have sparse trees, but after the initial spawn I never saw a tree above 50% (not that there were many, of course). It was not because I was chopping them, it seems that they were dying of old age before reaching maturity. Perhaps trees (at least cold-weather trees) could have a lower range of growing temperatures. Maybe they decline linearly from 10C to -20C instead of 10C to 0C like other plants.
- I, too, would appreciate the option to disable refueling of fires/torches/generators/etc. (maybe generators already have that option? I can't remember).
- People like to talk to themselves at parties. Or, at least, artists assume people talk to themselves at parties. While it makes for hilarious artwork, you may want to check into that. Example artwork attached.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: NotTheMattGuy on July 15, 2018, 03:19:31 PM
Rough Hewn Stone and Rough (stonetype) floors do not seem to get dirty, ever.
Intentional. Terrain is designed to either generate natural filth (dirt, sand, etc.)
or accept it, but never both. (It's actually a logged config error if it does both.) This is to prevent various absurd and memory-wasting outcomes like 5x sand filth on sand terrain. "There's sand on that desert? Who would've thought!"
However, natural flooring still isn't
clean. It's more that the surface layer of dirt/sand/whatever is hidden by the underlying dirt/sand/whatever. If you turn on the room tooltip (which I believe is the icon with the bar graph in the lower-right, but that changed recently so I'm not 100%) you should see that the room's "cleanliness" score is negative, even though there's no filth on the constructed floors. This is a passive effect from the rough stone floor, because no matter how hard you clean it, it's still a porous rock surface. (Until you smooth it, naturally.) This score in turn is what feeds into food poisoning. If rough stone is not contributing to poor room cleanliness, that's probably a bug and worth reporting.
Blood and related fluids, like corpse bile, are a slightly different system, and are exempt from the rule that filth isn't placed on natural floors.
I started the ship at my base, I was on Cassandra Hard, had to tune it down to Cassandra Medium and colony wealth at 280,000, 14 colonists. Prior I always played cassandra extreme and defended the ship we traveled to many times.
Within 1 minute IRL time I had 3 drop pod raids of pirates, 2 seiges and a drop pod raid of mechs inside my base and in the next IRL minute another raid of mechs spawned on map.
This is a lot, it would be fun on extreme, still maybe much, is this intended?
Quote from: jamaicancastle on July 16, 2018, 01:07:22 AM
Quote from: NotTheMattGuy on July 15, 2018, 03:19:31 PM
Rough Hewn Stone and Rough (stonetype) floors do not seem to get dirty, ever.
Intentional. Terrain is designed to either generate natural filth (dirt, sand, etc.) or accept it, but never both. (It's actually a logged config error if it does both.) This is to prevent various absurd and memory-wasting outcomes like 5x sand filth on sand terrain. "There's sand on that desert? Who would've thought!"
However, natural flooring still isn't clean. It's more that the surface layer of dirt/sand/whatever is hidden by the underlying dirt/sand/whatever. If you turn on the room tooltip (which I believe is the icon with the bar graph in the lower-right, but that changed recently so I'm not 100%) you should see that the room's "cleanliness" score is negative, even though there's no filth on the constructed floors. This is a passive effect from the rough stone floor, because no matter how hard you clean it, it's still a porous rock surface. (Until you smooth it, naturally.) This score in turn is what feeds into food poisoning. If rough stone is not contributing to poor room cleanliness, that's probably a bug and worth reporting.
Blood and related fluids, like corpse bile, are a slightly different system, and are exempt from the rule that filth isn't placed on natural floors.
Aha. I suppose that explanation makes sense, and likely something I'd already have in my knowledge bank if I started play earlier. Thank you for the clarity!
That said, the cleanliness of floors in my current game (just started over today... Please help, I can't stop) is 0.00. Not negative.
Rough Marble (floor) - 0 Cleanliness (ala concrete)
Rough-Hewn Marble (floor) - 0 Cleanliness
And once again, in this game, immune to 'dirt'. If it is not a bug in any way, I will absolutely only put my kitchens into mined-out rock holes rather than make a floor for them again in the future!
That actually is pretty insane even for the ship launch, although normal for the final 24 hours. Apparently there isn't much in the way of minimum time between raid checks.
yeah, had it been last 24 hours of ship i would totally get it but it was the first 24 hours
played a few goes of 1.0, all in all really really awesome improvements. the overall pacing from tribal to modern much improved, base construction and crafts flows much better.
few comments based on gameplay:
- please please give more love to traders and their overall positive impact on the game:
Traders are such a joyful event that i am not sure why its being held back so much.
1. its one of the only options for a three sided war.
2. it can be a big motivator to mine something other than steel early game
3. will create interest and links very well with caravaning which is not so hot right now.
i think its tragic that trader events dont happen more often, to the tune of every few days.
- please please give more love to raids. raids early scale too linearly and are too far apart so get very "computer generated" feeling. and i play randy random extreme.
Need way more, weaker, raids.
if today you send strength .8 to 1.2 every X time, add 2-3 minor raids in between with strength .4-.6. I have a lot more animal attacks, but those are not raids in my book and need humanoid opponents
- make caravaning easier/more appealing. Havent had a level 8 animal trainer/food/muffalo combo available in the first year in any of my games but irrelevant quests keep coming.
1. pack animal training should go down to 4-5
2. cost of leaving base should go down
3. one rewad is not enough, would be great if the quest pop up would say something like: "this [QUEST] is expected to also hold a treasury with (steel/food/etc.)
4. assign fixed amount of villager per settlement and keep track of outgoing raids/caravans and expose to us so we have incentive to keep track of world and attack weak settlements
small things:
- move grave construction to highest priority, requires ton of multi tasking for construction grave orders while everyone getting corpse debuffs.
- electricity requires way too much research. with not enough traders/villains theres a real dead zone of 1-2 seasons here while you wait for new options to unlo ck
Hello, new event, something I haven't seen so far.
A wimp, with melee over 10, started a social fight with a non-violent pawn and killed him. The pawn just dropped dead.
They started killing each other now, like packs and packs of man-hunting cats weren't enough.
Just a minor observation from my last game play session on Tainted clothing. I've gotten away from the whole side of things where it should be saleable; I just leave it on the corpse most of the time. But I was playing a modified naked-brutality start, and had a nude colonist strip the clothes off a corpse, thinking that it was better than going nude, right?
Nope. Nudity is a flat -6. Pants and shirt of tainted clothing is -5 each. It just seems odd that a pawn would rather be nude than wear tainted clothing; a flat -5 would be better, IMO.
Also, so a bit story: I decided, just being masochistic (I'm not normally, but I figured I'd see what happened) and tried a beyond-Naked Brutality start that I'm calling "Exiled to Die". It's naked brutality with a tribal start (so lowered research speed and less original tech) no visitors or trade caravans, no wanderer join event, increased recruit difficulty (50%); Oh, and a raid half a day after you arrive. I wasn't completely masochistic though, and played on my normal difficulty, Phoebe Medium.
I was doing okay, got a basic shelter (found a building with one gap, so all I had to do was build a door) and built a butcher table and was working on a stove with a deconstructed steel wall; No bed yet because textiles were hard to come by, but I was working on it. Then the raid shows up. Dude's got 15s in both Ranged and Melee, where my girl's got like... 5 melee. He beats her unconscious easily, snatches her up and leaves. I'm like, 10 minutes into this game. So I say fuck it, and open a browser window on the other monitor and leave it running. I get another raid (the usual early one you get) who smashes the butcher table and stove, breaks a couple walls, and leaves. Crashed pod; bleeds out. Finally, Krueger shows up, being chased by enemies. He grabs the club my original colonist left behind, and manages to beat his pursuer to death.
Now, Krueger's a fucking mess. Mostly he can't cook, research or firefight; luckily the structure was stone, as there was a lightning storm that burned everything north of the building before the rain showed up. He's chemically fascinated, and isn't especially good at anything, but he's able to farm (badly) and forage, so he's eating raw berries, rice, and corn from a drop pod. An escape pod crashes, friendly! Fucker walks off after eating my food for most of a week. I let him, because I don't want to risk angering his faction. Finally a hostile drop pod comes, and I'm able to recruit her after an agonizing amount of time. She's able to research, so I get started on furniture, with advanced clothing up next; Electricity just seems painfully far away, so I'm not even bothering yet. I finally got a third when I captured another drop pod (and angered her faction right after taking up a nearby peace talks with them, oops).
Textiles are really hard to get early on, without refrigeration, because I hate to waste meat and meals to spoilage. My strategy is to get veggies as they rot very slowly, and only make a few meals at a time, unless there's meat, because meals spoil more slowly than meat. I only hunt small animals, and grab prey from the pair of panthers trotting around (well, until I managed to leg one of them when it started hunting my colonist; Still managed to fuck up all three of my colonists after I got sloppy with my pathing and it caught up to her; but then I had panther meat for a while) I tamed a single llama so I could get wool. I forgot they don't give milk anymore, but the wool allowed me to finally make bedrolls and clothing, once I finished research for it. Refrigeration is still not on the horizon soon, but I've learned to appreciate the passive cooler during two heat waves. Winter was mild since I'm in a year-round-growing region (completely randomed; the only thing I chose was my original colonist, fat lot of good that did me)
At this point, I'm feeling okay. Raids are still weak because I'm frankly pathetic; Manhunters are kinda crazy common, but either I get free meat, or everyone gets cabin fever until the animal falls asleep. The new predator hunting alert is weird, because half the time, the predator has moved on to closer prey before I even find it, except the one time mentioned above; but overall, I appreciate it. It's telling that, on my normal difficulty, a scenario designed to make Naked Brutality look easy, is still doable; Had that original raid not been an RNG'd no contest, I might have been able to still have my original pawn, but now everyone else is standing up under her exile curse fairly well, (though they're probably confused why no one seems to like them); And honestly, that feels right to me.
New build!
Still lots to do over here, taking notes and tuning. Thank you so much to those who've given feedback. Please keep it coming.
I definitely appreciate being able to see the adaptation/fun points graphs and hearing the difficulty/storyteller of each given experience.
As always, the changelist is here for reference, but please try to stick to experience-based discussion for this thread.
---
Prisoner resistance: Added a new variable to prisoners called "resistance". It is reduced by a value for each interaction based on prisoner mood and warden stats. Once it hits zero, you can start making real recruitment attempts. If recruiter is inspired, resistance is eliminated in one stage.
Fixed/tuned various minor issues with pawn verbs/tools.
Rename tool commonality -> chanceFactor, fix bug in xml error handling.
Minor fixes to melee damage and injuries code.
Balance doomsday and triple rocket launcher.
Storyteller screen: Rename permadeath to committment mode vs reload anytime mode. Players must choose committment mode on or off. Storyteller scree now notes that you can change settings during play.
Added max gain to quality effect on market value per-quality level to stop crazy wealth gains from high-quality items with high base market values.
Some adjustments to MarketValue stats worker.
Remove often spurious error that appears during debug.
Adjust threat guarantee fraction of threatcycle times to guarantee threats consistently as designed.
Remove unused variables from DamageWatcher.
Reduce chance of wild animals setting off IEDs.
Rename Zone/Area tab to just Zone. LRMS can be tuned for steel. Pawns can sit while using long-range mineral scanner. Speed up tree sowing slightly. Reduce tortoise armor slightly. Reduce hive health to 130. Red letters do short 1x timespeed. Made plate armor lower tech and flak armor higher tech. Extend the time for auto undraft. Expand exclusion zone for watermill generators. Automatic rebuild does not apply outside home area. Fix: Insect spawned and cryptosleep enter/exit sounds are on camera instead of world.
We now accept empty translations as placeholders.
Moved translation report button to the language info box.
Fix: Translation handles don't handle apostrophes correctly.
Added accidentally removed translation handle from Tool.
Fixed StoryWatcher back compatibility bug.
Fixed native verbs errors. Native verbs now use a proper verb tracker.
Quote from: Tynan on July 16, 2018, 03:24:41 AM
Storyteller screen: Rename permadeath to committment mode vs reload anytime mode.
Go the whole hog and call them 'decent human being mode' and 'shitty savescummer mode' ;D
jk, I think this is a good change to steer new players in the right direction. I used to play without permadeath and it took something out of the game for me. I think new players won't necessarily understand RimWorld is not just a colony builder until they try with permadeath on.
I will mention that commitment is spelt 'commitment', not 'committment'.
I like the changes to watermills, they were too much of an easy option before. You could easily get away with making them one tile even larger, but it seems like a good compromise. I'm repositioning all of my watermills, and I saw the graphical bug again (power grid remains visible).
Quote from: Oblitus on July 16, 2018, 04:08:10 AM
Also, making no default is a bad UI design.
I don't think this is necessarily true. There's no default for difficulty, and nor should there be. Different people have different playstyles, but this decision makes it clear that it is a consideration for everyone, not just extreme hardcore players. When people see 'Ironman' or 'Permadeath', I think it might intimidate them.
P.S. - I like the Luke Skywalker reference in the tooltip. I agree with YokoZar that they are missable if you don't know to look for them, maybe reduce hovertip time to 0.2 seconds or something small like that.
I love the new difficulty descriptions and how the player is forced to choose commitment mode or enable reloading. Two quick comments on the interface:
If you don't make a choice, the error message telling you what to do is in the upper left corner of the screen, detached and slightly easy to miss on your first time. Consider making this a bit more noticeable -- such as by having the words flash. If all else fails, consider a popup message. You don't want to risk someone getting stuck on their first attempt to start a game.
Secondly, the tool tips around the options are missable -- rather than making them hover text that takes a few seconds to appear, just put the text right in the main window in a dedicated place.
The scythers are now insane. They just shrug off most attacks, and even ones that pass through armor can't do much damage. Deadfall traps are the only thing that counters them, but without them... Had two decent shooters with Orassan rifles (and they are serious stuff, not vanilla pea shooters) and one armored melee (flak set plus devilstrand) against one scyther, and still, melee got severe wounds. They tear turrets apart easily (they are too fast for autocannons, and mini-turrets just don't have a punch to pierce armor).
Here's my adaptation graph/base setup. It's on Cassandra extreme with naked brutality start. I've had one relationship/marriage form during the run and one death (you can probably guess who the death was). Some of the recent raids have been pretty intimidating, and their strategy of often splitting up has probably been the only thing preventing me from taking more losses. I think the last raid outnumbered me 28 to 11 and had 3 or 4 doomsday/triple rocket launchers and a bunch of power armor. I need to get some power armor, I've been kinda lazy about certain things and couldn't get research started until like a year into the game.
One thing I don't like about this arid shrubland I'm in is how barren it is. There's only a few pieces of grass and not a single wild tree despite me not having harvested any in two years. I feel like this biome used to have a lot more plant life in the past.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: JohnLG on July 16, 2018, 04:34:44 AM
Here's my adaptation graph/base setup. It's on Cassandra extreme with naked brutality start. I've had one relationship/marriage form during the run and one death (you can probably guess who the death was). Some of the recent raids have been pretty intimidating, and their strategy of often splitting up has probably been the only thing preventing me from taking more losses. I think the last raid outnumbered me 28 to 11 and had 3 or 4 doomsday/triple rocket launchers and a bunch of power armor. I need to get some power armor, I've been kinda lazy about certain things and couldn't get research started until like a year into the game.
One thing I don't like about this arid shrubland I'm in is how barren it is. There's only a few pieces of grass and not a single wild tree despite me not having harvested any in two years. I feel like this biome used to have a lot more plant life in the past.
Yeah, my last 1.0 playthrough was arid shrubland and there are barely any trees. Given the long tree planting time, the only way to survive was to get two exceptional growers; I don't think you could easily survive without a 10+ growing skill. I feel like this biome (which used to be one of the easiest) is now much closer to desert difficulty. That may not be undesired, but I think it's one of the favourites (its aesthetic fits with the original RimWorld feel) and this might put people off who aren't used to full-time forestry. The cold biomes (I've tried Cold bog) seem comparatively much easier than the hot.
Note: my arid playthrough was with naked brutality, but a tribal (Cassandra Rough). This drastically increases the wood needs (for the cold box and the fuel for a stove) but also allows planting from the start. I'm not sure how it would be for NB with an outlander start.
On power: in general, if you have a river start, you are foolish not to use as many water mills as possible. It avoids all of the cost, research and risk of batteries, which are required to make wind turbines viable. However, I haven't fully experienced the larger exclusion boundary, so that might have changed things.
- LRMS can be tuned for steel.
Holy crap. I lived to see this day! Finally.
Quote from: mcduff on July 15, 2018, 04:09:58 PM
As regards some of the earlier discussion re pawns etc, I would also like to add support for the "more carrot than stick" approach to colonist relations.
It would be great to see some positive buffs from having a lot of friends/negatives from having too many rivals.
It would also be nice to see something like a "cohesive" or "close knit" colony-wide buff. If you have a small group of pawns who've been together for a while it would make sense for them to feel close to each other and get a positive buff from being around each other. It would also mean that adding a whole bunch of new pawns would bring that mood down because it suddenly disrupts that friendship group.
It would be good to have reasons to check out to see how your pawns are getting along and to see if there are any disruptive elements that are doing more harm than good.
Some other things that would be interesting:
Make it so that the "refugee" event can spawn more than one pawn, for eg a pair of lovers or friends. This would be interesting because you could end up with, say, a great doctor and her depressive, alcoholic husband or something.
If there's a relationship in another clan, make it so that pawns could decide they want to go join them. This could be where a pawn asks to join you, or also where one of your pawns wants to leave to go be with their relations, perhaps with a mechanic where you can ask the other faction if they would be willing to let that pawn come over instead.
+1 for all of this!
Some other things:
I'd really like traders from factions who are enemies of each other being able to fight it off on our map again! I loved this feature in A17!
Maybe, like someone suggested, with a small relations drop for 'letting those awful people in' to compensate for, not guaranteed, benefits like loot and rescue-buffs.
In regards of hunting boomalopes, someone mentioned, it really does feel too cheap right now because nobody can get burnt and the fire watcher kicks in way too early (a mod I always use in final releases just disables this feature).
I can make it rain on purpose just by hunting boomalopes, that kills immersion in my opinion. (Maybe phoebe is extra generous with this, I haven't tried any other storyteller yet in 1.0)
In regards of storytellers and the soft cap for colonists: it feels a little odd that I got a lot of rescuing missions, refugee/wanderer joins events until I reached 12 colonists. Then every opportunity just stopped happening even though I lost one colonist (thanks to lancers dropping right beside him on the other edge of the map) half a year ago. I am in year 7 now, I think. Maybe I have to raid some outposts for new recruits.
I am playing on the second highest difficulty, I think it's called 'hard' now.. (I hope the change to the terms serves its purpose, I really am a fan of the old ones)
On this difficulty phoebe feels relatively easy. I really don't get a lot of raids, maybe too few.
One event I really liked:
I got a toxic fallout lasting for 10 days which was really a nice experience because I was so well stacked up on food that I wouldn't have thought it would become an issue again (playing rainforest, year-round growing). And it really brought my research forward, being stuck inside :-)
During the fallout a poison ship fell out of the sky and I decided to shoot it with mortars. As soon as the mechs popped out (2 scythers and 6 centipedes, 2 with inferno cannons), allies (8 in total I think) dropped to 'help me out' which was nice at first but they dropped so randomly scattered that almost everyone of them got killed all alone in the field (I managed to rescue one and one managed to flee). I killed the mechs and ended up with relations at -12 with my former allies, I think they shouldn't blame me but themselves for being so stupid ;-) but it's alright, I want to leave soon anyway.
I didn't think that I'd want to build the ship but phoebe didn't give me lots of quests recently so I got a little bored and now I want to push for the last epic fights.
I read something about 'a quest a weak' if i remember correctly but even if it was one a season it's not happening in my game (but I started this colony a lot of builds way back so it really could just be my game).
In this regard: big thanks to making the builds save-compatible because when I like a colony I tend to play it for a long time, if it survives of course and otherwise I'd have to wait for the final version which would be torture seeing how addicted I am again to this game :-)
The performance is so much better now with the 64-bit in the late game with a lot of stuff laying around and lots of animals doing pathfinding and hauling things. Thank you for that!
A thing that I don't like is the colonists relations debuff for throwing emp grenades at someone, they say that this person 'harmed them' but that's not true, she actually helped them out against this huge caterpillar shaped mechs which otherwise would have dealt serious damage to everyone. Alright, I get it if they are not grateful for that but it feels awkward the way it is now.
I didn't pay attention enough to see if the EMPs disabled the shield belts, would be nice if they did.
Well, this got a lot longer than I intended. So, thanks for reading, if you did :-)
Relations debuff from EMPing people is just a bug, don't worry we'll fix it.
New colony this time crashlanded, Cass - rough, large hills, temp forest 30 day grow period.
Things started out pretty rough two raids close together with already injured pawns meant one went down. The healing times from wounds felt longer. This playthrough I decided to accept every chased refugee, do prisoner missions and note down how many raiders and how many lived to be recruited and their traits. I wanted to see how things were now rather than my usual way of rejecting most refugees especially if I am already hurt. This time I accepted everything.
I had really bad luck on this run. No poison/psychic ship till the end of the second year, very few traders including trade ships, no ancient danger on my map (I checked before writing this). This made getting the multi analyser hard. In other playthroughs I have had up to 6 adv components at the same point in time. Luck can go both ways I guess. I've not yet really got this far down the research tree having played mostly tribal starts thus far. I needed bionics due to an early 9 point eye scar in one of the first raids and the later 2 feet and 2 legs (limb loss was a recurring theme even with everyone in heavy fur dusters and flak chest and legs, not had that much of an issue on my tribal runs with plate and devilstrand clothes.) I felt quite constrained in getting the bionics I needed and at the time of writing I still haven't made any due to lack of gold for a long time.
Here is the list of raids and pawns events I got and some notes about the ones I saw.
raid - 1 tribe - lived - abrasive, too smart, indoorsman, captured, went berserk and died in the fight.
Escape pod - allied - self tended, walked off map before rescue
raid - 1 tribe, died
escape pod - frail ambrosia addict - left to die - ugly, sanguine, no good skills
escape pod - sanguine fast learner - spacer - captured - low but useful skills for my colony
raid - 3 tribesmen - 2 dead - great memory, masochist, psychopath, - captured - only 2 flames
escape pod - ally - recued - beautiful fast walker - ok skills
chased refugee - accept - pyromanic, chem interest - terrible skills - regret accepting (6 man tribal raid foloowed him) he was captured by the raiders somehow
raid - 2 pirates - 1 dead other ran
raid - 4 outlanders - 2 dead 2 ran
incap refugee- guarded by 2 pigs - quick sleeper, body purist - good number of passios average skill lvl - sent al 4 colonists leaving base undefended except for colony yorkie named Friendship. Forgot the prisoner, return journey took 3 days (half a day to get there), prisoner starved to death n a pool of their own vomit.
raid - 4 tribesmen - all dead
incap refugee - 77 years old not going to take the risk on this one.
Food poisoning causes one colonist to get caught by manhunting ostriches, gets an infection in his foot, end up amputating.
raid - 5 outlanders - all dead
escape pod - space refugee - steadfast, greedy, psychic hypersensitive - captured
raid - 6 pirates - 4 dead 2 ran
Prisoner dies dring prison break
Raid - 7 pirates - 3 dead one downed 3 ran (downed pirate got up and on being clubbed with a rifle ge died as well)
raid - 6 sappers - 4 dead 2 ran
chased refugee - jealous, steadfast, lazy - decent passion and skills (doc and art, no dumb labor) - 8 outlanders chasing - 2 downed anc captured one to be released (depressive + low skills) rest died or fled
Raid - 7 outlanders - scattered drop pods - 1 downed rest dead 2 fled - gay, misandrist, greedy - great skills and passions - captured for recruit.
Raid - 10 pirates in drop pods - 5 dead rest ran. Bad set up for the fight, no time to prepare meant two colonists got downed to grenades (poor positioning on my part)
poison ship - 2 scythers 2 lancers -
raid - 4 scythers drop pods scattered.
raid - 15 out landers split two groups 10 and 5 - 2 downed and captured one to be talked to the other released (chemical fascination, indoorsman, nightowl - making drugs for profit so he has to go) pretty, caful shooter, slowpoke - need a janitor
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 16, 2018, 05:32:56 AM
Relations debuff from EMPing people is just a bug, don't worry we'll fix it.
Thank you!
Also, I'd like to have 'repair' as an extra column in the work tab again, like it was in A16 I think. This way everybody would be served, the ones who complained about it being higher priority than building walls for example and also the ones like me who have to wait like forever for anything to get repaired if they don't want to micromanage this.
On phoebe, that's alright because there's a lot of time to do things between raids but otherwise I'd really need my sandbags and walls repaired as soon as there's time.
But I'll install fluffy's worktab mod anyway when final release is ready so maybe it's not really an issue ;-)
Regarding that: I'd really need more numbers in the priority tab, at least five, probably more. But for me the worktab mod is mandatory anyways so yeah..doesn't matter really, lol
You know, it only occurred to me, that after trying to fend off a psychic ship with 11 scythers/lancers + 4 centipedes do I now comprehend how difficult mechanoids have truly become.
Wealth is 189k.
348 days in (so nearly 6 years).
Cassandra Rough. Swamp.
I have 5 dedicated melee fighters in a colony of 16, the rest being shooters (all with ARs). However, I find out considering that 4 of the shooters have decent melee skill, I equipped them with steel spears and old charge belts so the number of attackers for the ship are 9 melee fighters and 5 shooters, and 2 emp grenadiers.
It was a lot easier than just standing back to shoot. Charging with spearmen seems the superior way with shooters as backup. I think a big part of the problem is that, despite having 3 additional EMP weapons, only 1 is viable: the grenades.
You can't build too closely a ship because it spawns the mechanoids. So EMP IEDs are useless. You can't use EMP mortars because mortars are very inaccurate. So what's the reason of giving us two additional EMP weapons but only one works? I guess I could rely on those fancy autocannons ... if they were close enough to the base.
Idk how long the spear meta will be because it's extremely powerful, it's gonna get nerfed at some points. But until that day comes they get the nerf, I fear for the colonists of the Rim.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198393088779/screenshots/?appid=0&sort=newestfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=grid
Steam folder with screenshots from research, fun thingy and wealth after my first three years, plus a couple with my pawns in action.
After each year I take these.
Randy rough, tribal tundra.
After I wrote about my feeling of missing ioportunities to recruit someone, an escape pod dropped :-)
I encountered a fault in the text when resistance was broken:
My warden Xia Xue was trying to recruit Upgrade and it told me:
"Prisoner Xia Xue's resistance has been broken by Upgrade.." Doesn't look like he took her hostage to get free (even though it'd be funny) so I guess the names have just been confused.
Quote from: Tynan on July 13, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
[quote author=mndfreeze link=topic=41766.msg418288#msg418288
Tynan I'm still having issues with people dying from things before it hits 100 when I'm beating it and treatment is occuring. First it was the infection I posted a few pages back, now its plague.
I need a savegame from just before this happens, can you or anyone else supply one?
Thanks.
[/quote]
there is a bugthread about this with a savegame:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41941.msg412622#msg412622
its actually not a bug (as in error), but so confusing and hidden, that most players never find out on their own what happened.
it realy needs to be better communicated to the player, or changed slightly as to not kill pawns that are well on their way of beating an infection.
my suggestions where: include low efficiency percentages trigger a medical emergency alert, so the player actually knows that the colonist is in danger of dieing.
or change the "minus X% eff." stat of the infection to a "max eff. = Y%" stat.
The number based relation scale for Factions is quite binary. If they are very positive, they are allied, if they are very negative they are hostile... but inbetween there is a big grey nothing.
In the past I didn't really care much about them as they didn't change much, but now as relations get more important it's bugging me. E.g. I just got visited by a Trader whose faction is -50 standing with me - I expected a raiding party, not a Gheed on tour.
I wish there could be some more meaningful classifications on the current state which give more of an idea what to expect from a faction.
A simple implementation could look like this:
Green numbers give a chance of positive effects like traders and combat support, whilst the red numbers cause smaller or bigger raids:
I put this on more detail in a new Topic >>here<< (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42549.0).
Allied (91 to 100)
Conjoined(61 to 90)
Friendly (30 to 60)
Cautious (30 to -30)
Unfriendly (-31 to -60)
Hostile ( -61 to -90)
War! (-91 to -100)
Just a simple thing: leather items seem to wear out very quickly, given that in real life leather stuff can last for years and years. My pawns can go through a rhino leather or elephant leather duster in a year's work even without seeing much combat. Am I just missing something about durability or are these things degrading at the same rate as cotton?
Quote from: mcduff on July 16, 2018, 08:18:03 AM
Just a simple thing: leather items seem to wear out very quickly, given that in real life leather stuff can last for years and years. My pawns can go through a rhino leather or elephant leather duster in a year's work even without seeing much combat. Am I just missing something about durability or are these things degrading at the same rate as cotton?
Wearing apparel depletes its hit points. And vanilla textile category stuff has no hp modifiers. It can be cloth, devilstrand or hyperweave - it's all the same.
Quote from: robno on July 16, 2018, 04:45:39 AM
Quote from: JohnLG on July 16, 2018, 04:34:44 AM
Here's my adaptation graph/base setup. It's on Cassandra extreme with naked brutality start. I've had one relationship/marriage form during the run and one death (you can probably guess who the death was). Some of the recent raids have been pretty intimidating, and their strategy of often splitting up has probably been the only thing preventing me from taking more losses. I think the last raid outnumbered me 28 to 11 and had 3 or 4 doomsday/triple rocket launchers and a bunch of power armor. I need to get some power armor, I've been kinda lazy about certain things and couldn't get research started until like a year into the game.
One thing I don't like about this arid shrubland I'm in is how barren it is. There's only a few pieces of grass and not a single wild tree despite me not having harvested any in two years. I feel like this biome used to have a lot more plant life in the past.
Yeah, my last 1.0 playthrough was arid shrubland and there are barely any trees. Given the long tree planting time, the only way to survive was to get two exceptional growers; I don't think you could easily survive without a 10+ growing skill. I feel like this biome (which used to be one of the easiest) is now much closer to desert difficulty. That may not be undesired, but I think it's one of the favourites (its aesthetic fits with the original RimWorld feel) and this might put people off who aren't used to full-time forestry. The cold biomes (I've tried Cold bog) seem comparatively much easier than the hot.
Note: my arid playthrough was with naked brutality, but a tribal (Cassandra Rough). This drastically increases the wood needs (for the cold box and the fuel for a stove) but also allows planting from the start. I'm not sure how it would be for NB with an outlander start.
On power: in general, if you have a river start, you are foolish not to use as many water mills as possible. It avoids all of the cost, research and risk of batteries, which are required to make wind turbines viable. However, I haven't fully experienced the larger exclusion boundary, so that might have changed things.
In general on treeless maps you want to get/start stonecutting ASAP. NB runs can't really be used as a baseline, they have a high chance to fall over dead on maps with no natural healroot.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 16, 2018, 07:27:51 AM
You know, it only occurred to me, that after trying to fend off a psychic ship with 11 scythers/lancers + 4 centipedes do I now comprehend how difficult mechanoids have truly become.
Wealth is 189k.
348 days in (so nearly 6 years).
Cassandra Rough. Swamp.
I have 5 dedicated melee fighters in a colony of 16, the rest being shooters (all with ARs). However, I find out considering that 4 of the shooters have decent melee skill, I equipped them with steel spears and old charge belts so the number of attackers for the ship are 9 melee fighters and 5 shooters, and 2 emp grenadiers.
It was a lot easier than just standing back to shoot. Charging with spearmen seems the superior way with shooters as backup. I think a big part of the problem is that, despite having 3 additional EMP weapons, only 1 is viable: the grenades.
You can't build too closely a ship because it spawns the mechanoids. So EMP IEDs are useless. You can't use EMP mortars because mortars are very inaccurate. So what's the reason of giving us two additional EMP weapons but only one works? I guess I could rely on those fancy autocannons ... if they were close enough to the base.
Idk how long the spear meta will be because it's extremely powerful, it's gonna get nerfed at some points. But until that day comes they get the nerf, I fear for the colonists of the Rim.
Meleeing mechs seems to have become the best way. Even with blunt weapons you're just better off being up front and personal than giving the ranged ones a chance to fire their weapons, and the melee ones are so tanky you aren't gonna likely to get them downed before they get to you, so you have to be prepared to fight them on their terms anyway
First run through 1.0 on Randy Hard.
Started the games a few days ago so the build has changed a few times since i started.
for context i have been playing for a few months and on about 600+ hours (some offline so do not know the figures). all vanilla experience in previous games
Some of the changes have added so much to the game, well done to Tynan to listening to the feedback.
My first impressions are that the raids and difficulty of hard is very well paced.
Immediate things that stand out as really good changes
-Wildlife tab
-assign cooks/crafters
-take to specific stock piles
-research is so much better, i have previously researched everything and been nowhere near ready to build the ship. The speed of this seems so much better.
-tailoring material types
-the armour system is much better
-faction changes
-delivering resources and opportunistic hauling are amazing
Issues / bugs / thoughts
1) The water wheel north or south placement looks odd, the wheel seems to have a top down view but the building is angled. east/west looks awesome
2) Lots of food poisoning, now yes it will be more prevalent in the wild but this is a lot. I seem to have someone with food poisoning every couple of days with 5 colonists.
3) Romance text is slightly off, having a place holder in the wrong place. "pawn x charmed pawn x by ......... pawn y rejected the advance"
also "tried to flirt with" and tried to romance. This shows in the log of the person being flirted with but correctly for the flirter.
4) waterwheel and wind turbine feel like they should need to be researched
5) a wanderer joins with no choice. if someone turns up I should at least get the option to say thanks but no thanks.
6) on that note i always find it strange you can see raider / visitor (any non colonist really) social and character details, when i see someone in the street i don't instantly know they are good with ranged combat or can cook like master chef. Having this stuff hidden would make choices of who to capture / kill a lot more challenging and less "gamey". Can we have an option in settings to hide non colonist details ?
6) Another one that seems a bit odd is not being able to lock a door, visitors turning up to trade and just wandering into your bedroom is just weird. We can build a spaceship but cant lock a door ? instead of forbid yes/no, maybe open/colonist only/forbidden or colonist forbid and visitor forbid as separate options.
7)married pawns both get malaria. turn the double bed into medical. they are both still sleeping in the bed but both get the debuff "want to sleep with x"
i expect the check is if they have a shared bed assigned to them which they didnt. would they care if they were ill ?
assigning a double bed back to them and separate medical beds debuff goes away. that is a bit mad but has a programming logic.
8)pawn sick in bed with malaria. only weakened movement, manipulation, etc. alerts me they are starving. but they have a meal in their gear inventory.
9)just found that when cutting stone block with the do until you have x option, if i select the blocks stockpile i created it does npt pick up any blocks but does if i select anywhere. the stockpile had over 100 of the blocks i was making. deleting and recreating the stockpile made no difference.
Will report back with anything else
Quote from: Jumper on July 16, 2018, 09:10:10 AM
1) The water wheel north or south placement looks odd, the wheel seems to have a top down view but the building is angled. east/west looks awesome
Agreed, throw your artists into a room and let them figure out if they can improve that.
I just started a new game this patch and got RNGed like crazy. (Naked start, cassandra extreme, arid, small hills). That is how randomness works, but in such extreme cases it doesn't feel good anymore. And I mean in both direction:
- Day 2, 2 ship chunks + day 5, 4 ship chunks. I now have 51 components and all the early challenge from this is gone
- Food poisoning: 3rd time on day 8 now. My colonist has 1 cooking, so this is ok. What annoys me is that she started to eat a meal and at 90% it got canceled because of vomiting. 3 times in a row.
- Already got 2 mental breaks from the smallest risk (hide in room and daze). I dislike the minor mental breaks because they are basicly "This colonist is now useless until he breaks down from no rest". The stronger mental breaks add spice to the game/story and are kinda fun to deal with, while this is just boring and too long of just "nothing". She got the current break right after sleeping so she is now running around for 20 hours and I just sit there on max speed and wait it out. That is sure a larger problem with having only one or a few colonists, but the break could still be more interesting.
- First raid my colonist had an awful shortbow, shot an arrow to the raider, hit the brain, onehit. Fight won. Well, I can live with that, nothing bad here, just amusing to get even more RNGed. Same with an ambrosia sprout on day 7.
This rum sure starts interesting. I guess it really is more random and less related to the latest changes, so I'll just see what happens next.
- When pawns vomit on rough stone (from food poisoning) there is no vomit on the ground afterwards. On soil and sand there is. A bug?
- Cacti giving 20 wood for growing this fast feels way too strong and unrealistic/weird compared to the other trees. I am only harvesting wild ones and haven't planted trees myself, so maybe it isn't that strong for farming because of the long sow time. Still the wild cacti I have a way less wood pshortage than I expected.
Nothing to see on my graphs. I will post them when I'm longer in the game.
I also have a small side comment for the mod menu: If someone loads a 1.0 mod in B18, it say the mod is outdated although it is too new. I guess that's the reason why I get around one comment each day where someone wants my 1.0 mods updated "to the latest version" and they mean B18. There even is a big version number saying "1.0" on steam, people just don't read. I guess there isn't really a solution other then somehow hammering in peoples brains to read descriptions. It's partly because there was never an official announcement for 1.0 on steam but we can already upload mod for it. Altough I understand the why there was non. So yeah, if it's easy to add a different message for this case in the B18 version, we modders would be happy. Otherwise ignore it, this problem will solve itself with the official release. Have a good day and keep on with the great work.
--
Edit: The mental break is now finished. It was 28 ingame hours watching my pawn walking in daze. This was just boring and not fun at all. As I said it's too long "nothing happens".
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 16, 2018, 07:27:51 AM
You know, it only occurred to me, that after trying to fend off a psychic ship with 11 scythers/lancers + 4 centipedes do I now comprehend how difficult mechanoids have truly become.
Wealth is 189k.
348 days in (so nearly 6 years).
Cassandra Rough. Swamp.
I have 5 dedicated melee fighters in a colony of 16, the rest being shooters (all with ARs). However, I find out considering that 4 of the shooters have decent melee skill, I equipped them with steel spears and old charge belts so the number of attackers for the ship are 9 melee fighters and 5 shooters, and 2 emp grenadiers.
It was a lot easier than just standing back to shoot. Charging with spearmen seems the superior way with shooters as backup. I think a big part of the problem is that, despite having 3 additional EMP weapons, only 1 is viable: the grenades.
You can't build too closely a ship because it spawns the mechanoids. So EMP IEDs are useless. You can't use EMP mortars because mortars are very inaccurate. So what's the reason of giving us two additional EMP weapons but only one works? I guess I could rely on those fancy autocannons ... if they were close enough to the base.
Idk how long the spear meta will be because it's extremely powerful, it's gonna get nerfed at some points. But until that day comes they get the nerf, I fear for the colonists of the Rim.
Solution: Chained IEDs(https://i.imgur.com/lfnVmox.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4JvmqmL.png)
Do note that I got "Solar Flare" just as I was about to engage but had built three mini-turrets of plasteel as expendables, first line of defense. More to come in my Story: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41782.0 But basically, STUN mechanoids fast, take down their Scythers and then Inferno Cannons. This is my first ever Crashed Ship Part that smashes my walls. Two more Scythers spawned on the outer side together with a Charge Blaster and an Inferno Cannon. Their split, my advantage.
First build Explosive IEDs, their explosion shall trigger any other IED, preferably EMP IEDs to catch any fast moving Scyther.
That's actually pretty smart! I'll consider trying it at some point. Are there any differences in stun time between EMP grenades, mines, and mortal shells?
I don't have a solid answer as to tell you there is only "one" way, mostly because it's all circumstantial. A lot depends on what colonists you have and where the CSP lands. One of my melee guys was manning a mortar already aimed at the ship and on "Hold Fire", but I didn't need it.
If in your game, you have more than one mortar, I would choose to do "Volley", which means: Preemptively load and shoot EMPs simultaneously so that they are already "mid-air" before you pop the mechanoids, so that once they spawn they get instantly hit by the mortar shells. This method is of frequent use to me, specially when around 35% or more of my colonists are melee.
The advantage of the EMP grenades is that they are "unlimited". In this particular scenario, you cant see all my pawns as they are outside the frame, but they were all "long-ranged" and less powerful. Contrary to wielding shotguns and frag grenades. But with this set up, I managed to take down 3 scythers and was already hitting at the others, so my impression is that even if those 5 scythers were to have spawned in the inside of my base, I still would have had time to finish them off, or at least slow them down enough to the point that you can kite them. So long as you build some walls to obstruct Lancers LoS, you should be fine.
To be honest mines were the least I used to use myself, but I think v1.0 made them more relevant now, probably Tynan just getting lucky than WAD.
The only cons of the grenades is that you need to keep track of the throwers, once their target is stunned, you need to cancel their "firing" or else the mechanoids will get adapted and if their first grenade misses and you blocked their firing, you will need to unblock them so that they throw another grenade, losing a few seconds of fight that could prove crucial to stun them, but I had all my colony except the cook as back ups with Assault Rifles, Bolt action rifles and 1 sniper. And a gladius melee in case the EMP IEDS failed, which they didn't so its a happy ending.
Having said all this, I would use the stuns to handle the fragile ones, Scythers and Lancers due to their low armor, and leave the Centipedes to last. The bigs ones shouldn't be of much trouble without their shock troops.
How the heck do you fix Colonists with Braininjuries without EPOE? I have 2 Pawns who are basically useless since they have Braininjuries and since there is no Brain-Surgery in Vanilla, how the heck do you fix that?
I know there is this Med-Artefact you get once every 100hrs from Missions but is there no other way?
Quote from: Hadley on July 16, 2018, 12:36:08 PM
How the heck do you fix Colonists with Braininjuries without EPOE? I have 2 Pawns who are basically useless since they have Braininjuries and since there is no Brain-Surgery in Vanilla, how the heck do you fix that?
I know there is this Med-Artefact you get once every 100hrs from Missions but is there no other way?
Luciferium.
I noticed the Sun Lamps have had their power requirements almost doubled ... Is this going to be final, in 1.0? That kind of requirement seems a bit exorbitant.
Any chance this value will be reviewed before making it final?
Quote from: Hadley on July 16, 2018, 12:36:08 PM
How the heck do you fix Colonists with Braininjuries without EPOE? I have 2 Pawns who are basically useless since they have Braininjuries and since there is no Brain-Surgery in Vanilla, how the heck do you fix that?
I know there is this Med-Artefact you get once every 100hrs from Missions but is there no other way?
the mech serum is actually more common in 1.0. I even had a mission to kill two pirates guarding a stash of two. Unfortunately it was my first winter and I had no food.
Hard to tell whether I'm unlucky or it's by design, but i did not have any trader coming for 2 years straight on Randy Hard (had some quests/caravan requests though) I'm 'prefer to stay in base' kind of player so i'm not so eager to wander for trading (~4 days round trip)
So far the new adaptation system has been a very good addition.
Before it Randy Hard timing of events felt unnatural. Like if the chernobil-like nuclear plants, man-hunter packs, drones, mechanoids and raiders coordinated all together to screw you every few days. Now they come as deadly as ever but with reasonable amount of time in between.
Quote from: gadjung on July 16, 2018, 12:58:10 PM
Hard to tell whether I'm unlucky or it's by design, but i did not have any trader coming for 2 years straight on Randy Hard (had some quests/caravan requests though) I'm 'prefer to stay in base' kind of player so i'm not so eager to wander for trading (~4 days round trip)
Well, randy is random, so it was basicly your choice/design. You can even have never a visitor in the whole game if rng hits badly. If you want it more reliable, take one of the other storytellers. They work with mean times, so you get a visitor around every X days (can still be very lucky or not but way less than randy).
> Automatic rebuild does not apply outside home area.
Perfect! I just came here to suggest this and you're already two steps ahead.
I am noticing that on a tropical swamp, there are too many animals self-tamed and animals join the colony events.
Quote from: Polder on July 16, 2018, 02:11:18 PM
I am noticing that on a tropical swamp, there are too many animals self-tamed and animals join the colony events.
Yeah, I noticed that too. Too many monkeys, rats, and chinchillas joining that I don't want.
Version: 1.0.1964 - 1.0.1966 no mods
Scenario: Cassandra Rough, Crashlanded
Map: Standard size, arid shrubland, large hills, no river/road, growing season year round
Permadeath: No
Play time this run: 1d 2h 44m 20s
Play time in total: 972 hours (since A16 iirc)
My feedback is mostly in line with my previous post.
Some random notes:
- Food poisoning: it's threatening/annoying enough to warrant at least one dedicated cleaner once you have enough colonists. Seems fair.
- Wild animals dying to toxic fallout immediately rot. Annoying but makes sense I guess (I wouldn't want to eat a heavily poisoned animal either)
- This might be a bug: Poison ships don't generate poison/snow around them which makes it impossible to see how far the poison has spread already.
- Something that has been bugging me for quite some time: Prioritizing a pawn to mine/operate a drill results in them mining only a little bit before going back to other tasks (or mining steel instead of drilling for that much needed plasteel). I can understand when pawns abandon prioritized tasks for food/rest, but this partial mining seems nonsensical to me.
- The log entry when attempting romance is wrong for the target of affection, i.e "<Colonist A> courted <Colonist A> ..." instead of "<Colonist A> courted <Colonist B> ...". It is correctly displayed in the log of the pawn initiating the romance attempt.
- It would be useful to have a warning in the caravan menu when setting out without bedrolls akin to the warning for low food. I forgot about them twice which wasn't devastating, but a bit annoying.
- I liked that Crashlanded starts with a set of flak armor. Made me more confident in dealing with early threats.
--- Strategies employed & dealing with raids ---
One of the difficulties of Arid Shrubland is the lack of trees (and therefore wood). I played around this by building most things out of steel which was plentiful on this map. I had to employ wind power and research batteries early on (wood fired generators are too expensive on wood for this biome). I built my base around three geothermal geysers that covered most my energy needs once I got that research.
In contrast to my previous 1.0 run, I played a more turtle-heavy style. I didn't build a dedicated killbox but I only left one narrow path into my base unwalled, heavily trapped and overseen by turrets (1-3 autocannons). I also placed turrets in the corners of my base where sappers might break through. I definitely noticed more sapper and siege raids as well as drop pods raining into my base.
The siege raids I either attacked preemptively or shelled once I had salvaged some of their mortars and shells. They rarely managed to squeeze off more than 1 or 2 shells before I damaged them enough to warrant a direct attack on my defensive lines (one shell hit my unfinished ship engines which definitely delayed me by a few days).
The sapper raids and drop pods had to be taken care of by my soldiers, usually in grueling shootouts in my base. I tried to pull them into my turrets whenever possible, but when they go after untrained animals and buildings, you have to engage.
The regular raids were softened up by traps so my turrets and colonists had a relatively easy time taking out the rest.
--- Quests ---
Since my base was close to major roads on the world map, I tried to fulfill as many quests as possible.
I even went to peace talks quests (4 in total). Oddly enough the most succesful peace talk was when my main negotiator (10 social) had a mental break right before we arrived and his companion (2/3 social) had to take over.
The bandit camp quests could use a bit more risk/reward balancing. My earliest (3-man) expedition netted me 30 Glitterworld medicine and a Vanometric Power Cell (2 camps with 5 and 3 enemies respectively) while the later bandit camp quests had either uninteresting rewards or too much risk for mediocre rewards.
The caravan requests were all over the place. I fulfilled the interesting ones (flak vests for resurrector mech serum, components for advanced components, etc.) and ignored the uninteresting ones (that bed/chess table may be made of gold and legendary to boot, but I really don't need it. There are easier/safer ways to make money than travelling there and immediately re-selling it)
--- Ship startup sequence ---
Once again, the ship startup sequence was challenging. In fact, in the beginning it felt harder than my previous run (which was at "Hard" difficulty instead of "Rough"). The main issue was that additional raids were spawning on top of existing raids. I had 3 consecutive drop pod mech attacks in my base within 7 or 8 hours which was really straining.
As if to make up for it, Cassie sent easier raids towards the end of the startup sequence (or at least raids my base could handle easier).
Below is a writeup of the last 15 days.
_________________________________________________________________
On day 242, my ship reactor starts up.
The colony consists of 14 pawns (including 3 brawlers and one almost-pacifist), ~10 adult huskies and ~10 adult pigs as well as a handful of puppies and piglets (I slaughtered all my dromedaries before starting the reactor since I didn't need them anymore)
T-14d: melee-only sapper raid. 3 huskies die. quite a few injuries.
T-13d: mechanoid drop pods right into my bedrooms (scythers & lancers). 4 animals die, 2 colonists get downed, limbs are lost left and right (1 arm and 1 leg are the result of autocannon friendly fire). I replace limbs on two pawns, rendering them unable to help for the rest of the day (which was pretty bad)
5 hours later: another mechanoid drop pod raid (mostly scythers) right into my living room where Dan is currently binging on psychite. He obviously gets downed as well as 2 other colonists. there are barely any pawns or huskies that don't have an injury. Of my three melee pawns only one can walk (just barely). Many bedrooms and my living room are in shambles.
Just 2 hours after, ANOTHER mechanoid drop pod announces itself (5 lancers). This is ridiculous. This does NOT feel good. My previous run was one difficulty harder and it never felt THIS unfair. I quit the game and go to bed.
...anyway, after cooling off and thanks to the cramped environment they landed in I manage to engage them in melee without suffering casualties from their charge lances. My 2 barely standing brawlers get downed again and one pig dies.
At this point I am out of herbal medicine. About 40 regular medicine left. I plant healroot in my hydroponics to recover as quickly as possible.
T-12d: 5 hours after the drop pod mayhem, a sapper raid appears. I manage to kill some of them with a triple rocket launcher. Its wielder gets downed in return. They start digging through a thick chunk of slate, then stop and begin moving towards my choke (thanks AI!)
While this is going on, 2 hours later, a siege appears. Since my base is really close to the southern map border where they spawn they set up camp directly beneath my walls (some of the sandbag blueprints are within my territory and one of their builders actually tries to move into my base). I use another triple rocket launcher on them and a few more rifle shots make them attack through my choke. The sappers and siegers reach the choke at about the same time but I manage to fend them off there with minor injuries
As they flee a solar flare hits - goodbye freshly planted healroot.
T-11d: The piles of corpses and lack of rest really gnaw on my pawns mood. Expert marksman Sam finally breaks (sad wander) but the men of the colony get a little relief through a psychic soothe.
Thankfully no more raids this day so I can bring my colony back in shape and allow wounds to heal.
T-10d: Siege. My 3 mortars are ready to and the first salve critically hits. They flee immediately.
2 hours later, sappers arrive in drop pods (all melee with many shield belts except for one LMG wielder). Interestingly, one of them apparently was in the second to last siege raid - he is still injured and has negative thoughts about losing friends.
A well placed triple rocket manages to take out a few as they advance. Rifle wielding colonists peeking out of doors take out a few more and the rest flees.
I get about a day of quiet and manage to fully heal all but 2 of my colonists.
T-8.5d: mechanoid drop pods (3 scythers, 4 lancers) wreck my little hospital. Brawler Winnie and her huskies clean up most of the baddies. Only injuries, no one killed or downed.
T-7d: 3-way mechanoid raid (centipede/lancer, centipede/2 lancers, lancer/2 centipedes). While these mechanoids make their way towards my base, another 6-centipede raid spawns.
The lancers get killed by traps but the centipedes really hurt. Thanks to EMP grenades and two brawlers valiantly throwing themselves against the machines they are somewhat manageable but 1 colonist still dies in the hail of bullets (RIP Beatriz). 1 husky dies to blood loss since there are just too many wounds to tend to.
This run I anticipated the immense steel cost of turrets so I built up a venerable stockpile in advance that hasn't run out so far (partially because there aren't too many raids that get into range of my turrets)
T-5.5d: 3-way pirate raid (delayed). While they wait, a sapper raid shows up as well. I get most of the sappers with my doomsdays rocket, but my wielder goes down to their doomsday rocket. They manage to dig a hole through my defenses before fleeing. That's when the 3-way raid moves in. Despite my compromised position I manage to fend off the bigger group, and the smaller groups walk into my traps. I also use 2 psychic shock lances to down their doomsday rocket pawns beforehand
Leonard decides this is the perfect time to throw a party! All but 2 pawns are able to attend and the mood boost certainly helps.
T-5d: The party wraps up and a psychic drone (high, female) starts. Let's hope they had enough fun at the party because that drone certainly isn't.
T-4.5d: Mechanoid drop pods (3 scythers, 1 lancer). They do love dropping on top of my animals... They manage to kill two juvenile pigs before I can throw my fighting pigs and huskies against them (quite a few nasty cuts). One husky has to be euthanized due to a shattered spine.
T-4d: regular pirate raid(delayed). once again I manage to catch a few with a doomsday rocket, but they also manage to get my wielder with a rocket of their own. once they attack my turrets handle them well.
Engie has had enough and decides to binge on go-juice, immediately overdosing (thankfully no long-term negatives).
By now, my herbal medicine stock has recovered.
T-3d: 2-way scyther attack (8 in total). They are no match to my traps + turrets + rifle wielders. No injuries.
T-2.5d: pirate drop pods in my base. 3 downed colonists, 2 dead huskies, many injuries. Could have been worse though.
I keep my colonists happy with psychite tea and smokeleaf. The more important workers get wake-up to ensure a quick recovery from base damage.
T-2d: mechanoid raid (4 scythers, 4 lancers). Traps and turrets get them done.
T-4d: mechanoid raid (4 centipedes). They are easily dispatched, but not before an autocannon turret takes off one pawn's foot :/
T-1.5d: 2-way pirate raid. they have no choice but to walk into my traps and turrets and quickly flee
T-15h: Another regular mechanoid raid consisting of just a few scythers/lancers that get handled by traps and turrets.
3rd of Jugust, 5504, 18h. My colonists are safely loaded into their cryptosleep caskets. Beatriz' empty casket stings a bit, but losses are expected (I'm a dummy... I just now realized I could have resurrected her). The ship takes off.
Now that i think about it, structures like turrets (and walls\doors) should have some armor rating as well. I mean, you'd think a construct of solid steel would shrug off shots more than a tin can with meat inside. Turrets could really use to be a bit more resistant to damage (especially mini-turrets that pop like ballons with their 50% hp blowup treshhold), not through hp, but through armor. Makes no sense that they can't deflect shots. So i suggest to rebalance turrets once more around them having armor.
With their upkeeps being the stick, i think it makes sense to offer a carrot as well, which is the chance to mitigate or halve the damage, like mechs or power armored tin cans do.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 16, 2018, 02:54:31 PM
Now that i think about it, structures like turrets (and walls\doors) should have some armor rating as well. I mean, you'd think a construct of solid steel would shrug off shots more that a tin can with meat inside. Turrets could really use to be a bit more resistant to damage (especially mini-turrets that pop like ballons with their 50% hp blowup treshhold), not through hp, but through armor. Makes no sense that they can't deflect shots. So i suggest to rebalance turrets once more around them having armor.
With their upkeeps being the stick, i think it makes sense to offer a carrot as well, which is the chance to mitigate or halve the damage, like mechs or power armored tin cans do.
Not turrets only. All structures should be more resistant to being punched and stabbed. Hares chewing plasteel like cardboard are really killing my suspension of disbelief.
Yep, thats why i said - walls and doors as well. Even though they have less hp now, they really should be more resistant to some kinds of damage and less to others. Like only grenades and high caliber destructive weapons should be the most effective way to blast through doors and kill turrets. Three or four crazed squirrels shouldn't be able to gnaw through a steel turret.
Armor rating of structures should also depend on which material they are made off, so making them from more valuable materials pays off. With plasteel and uranium providing really high armor rating, steel - medium and wood pretty much non-existant. It d be also nice to have autocannons and sniper turrets be constructed from stuff again and having material-dependant armor rating as well.
Maybe go even further and make turrets from various materials require said material as "fuel", so that having to replace plasteel turret barrels will require plasteel (which should obviously offer more shots per barrel change, than a steel turret with a steel barrel has). I think that would be a much more interesting system, than what we have now.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 16, 2018, 12:55:14 PM
Quote from: Hadley on July 16, 2018, 12:36:08 PM
How the heck do you fix Colonists with Braininjuries without EPOE? I have 2 Pawns who are basically useless since they have Braininjuries and since there is no Brain-Surgery in Vanilla, how the heck do you fix that?
I know there is this Med-Artefact you get once every 100hrs from Missions but is there no other way?
the mech serum is actually more common in 1.0. I even had a mission to kill two pirates guarding a stash of two. Unfortunately it was my first winter and I had no food.
Well, I'm in Year 4 and 0 so far. Only mission that rewarded something useful was one for a AI Persona Core.
Quote- Wild animals dying to toxic fallout immediately rot. Annoying but makes sense I guess (I wouldn't want to eat a heavily poisoned animal either)
I noticed this in my play through last night as well. I was trying to collect enough food to hunker down as the fallout had just started (maybe only a couple minutes in). Animals were still alive (and right outside my base door), hunted, and then immediately rotten. There should be a bit of delay i think personally.
Im almost sure there used to be an option to take a corpse to a cryosleep pod. Did you remove it or was it never there?
I honestly don't like how I get toxic fallout and volcanic winter every play-through, but the new event "wild man wanders in" never happened to me.
Don't get me wrong, getting fallout/winter at all is rather a good thing, it really adds something, however I personally think volcanic winter is by far not harsh enough. Usually it doesn't affect how I play at all, I ignore it completely.
Personally I would like if volcanic winter actually was more like cold snap, but started slower, so you really had time to prepare when it hits - but then it also lasts longer.
That d just make for a very long winter and thats it. And now its almost the same, just milder. People who play on maps with actual winters won't really notice it.
Ah, volcanic winters. Play a winter map? Don't notice cuz its always been cold. Play on a hot map? It doesn't make a dent. I played on a tropical forest map and my crops didn't even slow down through the fall/winter time (its permanent summer but theres 60f summer and 100f summer). Volc winters only really matter on temperate map types, of which theres like... 2?
Few games this weekend. Here are my highlights.
Naked Madness, Randy Hard, Random Locations, Choose one of the 8 Pawns Rolled (not total blind... but no re-rolls):
1. temp flat - played it 3 years in. hit 200k wealth. stopped being fun when I lost 6 out of 10 colonists. the last raid was 29 pirates with snipers and the ancient danger area popped about 10 hives while the fight was still on, which set off the incendiary IED and beds i put in there just in case.... which did the hives well enough but the forty or so bugs rushing into the back of my base .... - and while my openish base was set to deal with a lot of scenarios (and had), that wasn't one of them. frankly, wealth is the enemy. get enough of it, RNG and repetition finds the flaw in your defenses.
2. arid river - no heal root. ended with a fever from a rabbit wound.
3. temp small hills - first pawn to join (wanderer) was a ranch owner (2 passions, animals 11 and social 1) who immediately started a rejection spiral with my starter (her dad showed up in a drop pod later, and I see where her issues with men came from...). Figured losing him was not a large risk, so I send him to tame all the muffalo on the map (4). He managed that. So, I stuck him on mostly research (he started at 0 with no passion, 6 as of now) because it was annoying me to see him wandering so much. Massed Muffalo violence is incredible. Everything has gone down to the Herd. Took the Herd out to do missions. Popped 3 outposts so far. 2 Shortbows, 1 Poor Revolver in a closet. Wooden clubs for all cause bad guns just shoot the Herd. 5 colonists 2 prisoners 8 Muffs (3 prisoners from "Herding" the outposts and 2 from raids what got "Herded"), 19k wealth, and 2 research done.
Cheers.
So I had a downed pawn that was cut off from the rest of the colony, he was on fire and I couldn't rescue him without going through a bunch of mechanoids first, so I thought, maybe I could use those firefoam shells for at least put the fire out, hahaha no (see image). I only had 3 shells but I bet there is some forced miss radius kicking in so even If I had hundreds I couldn't have hit him. In the end I had to go through the mechanoids.
Also a rant about pathfinding. I had a raid, and when the fight is about to start I lose power thus also my turrets. Turns out my batteries ran out of power, so I pick one of my less fight-wise capable pawns for turn on the battery backup. The path that he chooses (see image) involves going through 5 doors instead of none (5 doors because he wasn't inside the storeroom when I gave the command). ARGGH!
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 16, 2018, 07:27:51 AM
I think a big part of the problem is that, despite having 3 additional EMP weapons, only 1 is viable: the grenades.
You can't build too closely a ship because it spawns the mechanoids. So EMP IEDs are useless.
I feel the EMP IED would be good to place inside your base, for those mechanoids drop pods.
I still don't know what the firefoam IED is for.
Quote from: Jumper on July 16, 2018, 09:10:10 AM
6) on that note i always find it strange you can see raider / visitor (any non colonist really) social and character details, when i see someone in the street i don't instantly know they are good with ranged combat or can cook like master chef. Having this stuff hidden would make choices of who to capture / kill a lot more challenging and less "gamey". Can we have an option in settings to hide non colonist details ?
I feel the same should be true for colonists, I mean, who introduces themselves with "oh btw, I like to set random stuff on fire"?, some traits should be hidden until the mental break happens, passions shouldn't be known until some time working in that skill, chronic health conditions shouldn't be known until checked by a doctor. Basically, you shouldn't get to know everything about your pawns instantly. I feel that stuff like that would help to get the internal drama Rimworld is supposed to be about.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: m44v on July 16, 2018, 04:51:34 PM
I still don't know what the firefoam IED is for.
Firefoam actually slows people down a bit and also pops shields immediately when it blows up, so the only use i see for firefoam IEDs is to counter shielded melee raids. It leaves them naked to get screwed by gunfire. Unless thats changed in 1.0
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 16, 2018, 07:27:51 AM
It was a lot easier than just standing back to shoot. Charging with spearmen seems the superior way with shooters as backup. I think a big part of the problem is that, despite having 3 additional EMP weapons, only 1 is viable: the grenades.
You can't build too closely a ship because it spawns the mechanoids. So EMP IEDs are useless. You can't use EMP mortars because mortars are very inaccurate. So what's the reason of giving us two additional EMP weapons but only one works? I guess I could rely on those fancy autocannons ... if they were close enough to the base.
EMP IEDs can be used to protect you from the now terrifying Scythers, and the occasional shield raid. Just because you can't make mechs spawn on top of them anymore doesn't make them useless. In fact you can build close enough to them that their generous range clips the far side of the ship.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 16, 2018, 04:12:15 PM
That d just make for a very long winter and thats it.
Yes, what would be wrong with that? It makes perfect sense and would strain food resources etc.; currently I agree that volcanic winter is a bit too mild. I would also like it to start mild and then worsen.
Just a smattering of notes from me at the moment - Haven't had as much spare time to play.
In no particular order:
It'd be really nice to know what the current faction relations are in the trade/gift interface - Specifically the gift interface. As it stands you have to close the trade window and open up factions to check.
Trade requests for "X items of normal quality or higher" are a bit of a pain interface wise. Especially when the item in question can be made of multiple materials or is something your colonists are likely to automatically equip. On several occasions I've accidentally turned up to a trade request 1 item short because I've miscounted in haste while scrolling down the enormous list of every item my colony has when sending out the caravan.
If you've somehow got say.. 13 normal jackets all made of the same material then that's fine - but if you have 3 normal, 6 good, and 4 excellent, made out of 6 different materials you're in for quite the fiddly mess.
I've purchased every single Social Neurotrainer that I've ever seen for sale - just thought I'd throw that one out there. They pay for themselves really quickly.
Techprofs are considerably more useful now - Yay!
I'd definitely like to second the notion that some sort of Bedroll warning would be a good idea for caravans - It's easy to forget to add bedrolls to a caravan and it would be useful to remind players that they are useful in caravans.
Hay not counting as a food for caravan animals is still really weird. It's by no means a game breaker but it does feel like I should be able to take hay with me on caravan runs for animals.
Carvans should probably display their arrival as standard letters rather than top-left lines of text - It's very easy to send a caravan out and not realize that they've arrived at their destination if it doesn't automatically generate a map.
Deadfall traps should probably default to auto-rearm. I can't personally think of a time where I've placed a trap that I only intended to be used once.. and even if I have I'd still deconstruct them.
Manhunting animals that bump into colony owned animals attack them which is.. a bit frustrating and inconsistent. You can circumnavigate it being an issue by taking all your animals inside ( hardly ideal ) or sending them reasonably far away from your base if you're waiting manhunters out. Some sort of visual cue that animals are currently Manhunting would be nice too - It's not uncommon when waiting out manhunter packs to be forced to check constantly to see if you can let your colonists go outside.
A piece of visual interface on the world map for towns that have active trade requests would be nice. As it stands your options for seeing which towns have active trade requests are - Clicking on each one individually, or scrolling through your message history neither of which is ideal.
The Forage Per Day interface shows you the quantity of items foraged per day instead of the nutrition per day unless you mouse over it.. I don't know why you'd want to know the physical number of berries you're foraging instead of the nutrition those berries contain.
On the same subject - the Days of Food should probably show you the amount of nutrition consumed per day.
It would be useful to know at what temperature plants start to die of cold in their statistics. We know their lifespan, yield, health, light requirements, fertility sensitivity, minimum fertility required, growing time, and even their mass.. But not how warm we need to keep them.
Animal wool is.. currently in a very bad state balance wise. It's quite valuable as a trade good but it's pretty freaking useless as a material for clothing. It's only marginally better than regular cloth in terms of insulation and heat armor. And it's a LOT worse than light leather. It's very nearly a trap for unobservant players.
Buying neutroamine an selling it as Wake Up is currently quite profitable. It doesn't take particularly long to make it and literally any idiot can do it even if they're severely brain damaged with no skills.
Neutroamine is always(?) available from bulk goods traders and those same traders will buy wake-up.
Additionally the neutroamine itself is quite useful itself for medicine and other drugs. Failure to buy it basically every chance you get is currently a mistake.
You don't even need anyone socially skilled to make the trade - at 5.5% negotiator bonus (And no penalties from difficulty) you can still buy Neutro at $8.50 and sell wake-up for $18.47. Each Neutro is effectively worth ~0.75 silver at the cost of 15 no-skill labor. And that's with a garbage negotiator.
And wake-up is one of the more useful drugs in my personal opinion - on top of everything else.
Flak Jackets vs Dusters - They're in a bit of a weird place. Flak jackets aren't much better than high quality leathers or devilstrand at being armor, especially because they don't cover the legs. Particularly in the Heat department. Anyone in a flak jacket might as well be doused in petrol compared to the asbestos-like qualities of devilstrand :P
Additionally flak jackets are truly garbage at insulation and slow you down slightly.
Strictly speaking flak jackets are made of more commonly available materials and are cheaper to make but.. their performance isn't in line with their cost when compared to Heavy/Elephant/Rhino/Bear/Devilstrand in my experience. Also some people would argue that steel is the most valuable material in the game (Not me personally).
Admittedly I'd move heaven itself to be able to grow devilstrand on any given map so I'm very biased.
While on the subject of apparel - I still don't know what regular Jackets are for, they really do look like a trap for people that don't know Dusters cover legs and are still reasonable in the cold.
I still need to get around to playing with the re-balanced launchers, recruitment, and weirdly Cocoa trees. I'll get there eventually though!
---
On a related note I'd really like to thank Tynan and Ison for their receptiveness towards feedback and their truly mind-melting amount of patience and effort that they put in. I couldn't possibly read through the feedback of myself and others without going ballistic.
My friend and I joke often that you're robo-developers as the pace and quality is so impressive. We wish you could be cloned to work on other games that we like :P
Edit:Typos
This is something that has always happened and it's not exclusive to v1.0. I hate it when my colony decides to throw a party right after we finished battling a crashed ship part and my base needs to repair the City Walls and many other defenses...but no...let's just have fun and leave the entire colony defenseless... This is so stupid and nonsensical...
Players need a way to control when there's gonna be a Party...or at least "Cancel" it if inappropriate timing. But technically speaking, it shouldn't trigger right after a combat when all my pawns just got patched up and need to recover.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 16, 2018, 08:40:10 PM
This is something that has always happened and it's not exclusive to v1.0. I hate it when my colony decides to throw a party right after we finished battling a crashed ship part and my base needs to repair the City Walls and many other defenses...but no...let's just have fun and leave the entire colony defenseless... This is so stupid and nonsensical...
Players need a way to control when there's gonna be a Party...or at least "Cancel" it if inappropriate timing. But technically speaking, it shouldn't trigger right after a combat when all my pawns just got patched up and need to recover.
Amusingly I love it when they throw a party right after a big battle. It's exactly what I'd do and it makes me think of the ends of episodes of TV shows or something where everybody's patched up sitting around BSing and then someone explains a bit too plainly what the gist of the episode was.
First message regarding the new prisoner system
"Prisoner Kats resistance has been broken by Cruxious, recruitment can now begin."
Thats great, except Cruxious is the prisoner and Kat is a warden...
Quicky:
Just started my dual colony life. As of now, we get all notification letters and warnings grouped together which makes it difficult to distinguish which message belongs to which colony. Ideally, we should get the corresponding notifications in the related colony, but if "game mechanics" are too hard to split, can we at least separate the notifications in two lists of different background color? Basically, each corresponding table will have a different background color and group the notifications to colony1 and colony2 respectively.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 16, 2018, 09:00:21 PM
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 16, 2018, 08:40:10 PM
This is something that has always happened and it's not exclusive to v1.0. I hate it when my colony decides to throw a party right after we finished battling a crashed ship part and my base needs to repair the City Walls and many other defenses...but no...let's just have fun and leave the entire colony defenseless... This is so stupid and nonsensical...
Players need a way to control when there's gonna be a Party...or at least "Cancel" it if inappropriate timing. But technically speaking, it shouldn't trigger right after a combat when all my pawns just got patched up and need to recover.
Amusingly I love it when they throw a party right after a big battle. It's exactly what I'd do and it makes me think of the ends of episodes of TV shows or something where everybody's patched up sitting around BSing and then someone explains a bit too plainly what the gist of the episode was.
You will change your mind once you switch to Randy Extreme and you get 5 raids one after the other while your colonists are still recovering.
Doesn't it feel off when you have to use cloth/leather to build a bedroll but just wood to build a regular bed? I feel the regular bed should have some textiles in the recipe.
Can someone explain how armor stacks? I feel the UI could do a better job of explaining what's going on. What's overall armor? The average over the body parts?
What I'd like to have is a dialog button, like '?', that gives you a wall of text that explains exactly how it works.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 16, 2018, 03:05:17 PM
Maybe go even further and make turrets from various materials require said material as "fuel", so that having to replace plasteel turret barrels will require plasteel (which should obviously offer more shots per barrel change, than a steel turret with a steel barrel has). I think that would be a much more interesting system, than what we have now.
Better not. Plasteel is kinda scarce now. On my current default-sized map I only have something like 10 tiles of deep plasteel. Barely enough for a set of power armor for everyone. Autocannons would eat through it in a split moment.
Quote from: seerdecker on July 16, 2018, 11:32:51 PM
Can someone explain how armor stacks? I feel the UI could do a better job of explaining what's going on. What's overall armor? The average over the body parts?
Armor calculation is very misleading now. Tests have shown that overall armor rating is an abstract number that is relevant to nothing. While flak+devilstrand has the same armor as power armor set, the actual efficiency of power armor is way higher.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 12:15:48 AM
Better not. Plasteel is kinda scarce now. On my current default-sized map I only have something like 10 tiles of deep plasteel. Barely enough for a set of power armor for everyone. Autocannons would eat through it in a split moment.
Stick 3 people to LRMSs and you will have some plasteel for turrets to reload. They also should have more shots than steel ones. Or if you don't wanna use plasteel as ammo - use standart steel turrets.
Here is some commentary on current resistance system (been messing around with crashland/extreme/nice biome. i am most COMMITTED guy)
* It is a bit misleading, and might end up with people selecting friendly chat. But it appears that friendly chat doesn't lower resistance (or if it does, the game doesn't signal to you the conditions under which it would lower resistance).
* I think strict threshold for opinion / mood should be communicated, because right now its not clear if you are just straight up wasting time / resources. I think I saw situations where a full chat recruit cycle wasn't lowering resistance, not 100% sure. But it was definitely not intuitive how things changed.
* Prisoner sleeping schedule often desyncs from warden. As a result, if I let the game play, warden recruits per day suffers, or I must tediously time every recruit attempt and manually issue command. Result is typically around 2 recruitment attempts per day. 3 if carefully setting alarm to chat every 5 hours (most fun, very interact). A not insignificant amount of times the prisoner falls asleep halfway through a recruitment pitch.
So I have prisoner start at 12 resistance, and with recruitment pitches at +100 relationship / 40 mood - resistance drops by ~1 per pitch.
This is with the easier side of starts (again, crashlanded / extreme / good biome) with anomalously good pawns (with slightly impressive bedrooms / fine meals (!!!!!) going into month 2, this is really the high end of moods you will get on this difficulty at early points in the game). Pawn has no scars, only light mood malus from transhumanist.
So lets do some math here - at 2 recruitment pitches per day, that's 12 meals and ~3-4 full days of productive wardening (factoring in travel time since pawns are pretty silly and path inefficiently to their other jobs). And even with a decent social (~9-10) warden you are typically looking on average of 10 attempts to actually recruit said pawn (you get some bonus from recruiting at +100 relation. but its not THAT amazing). Its not like social is particularly easy to train either, even though it did get buffed around ~50% xp rate relative to B18.
So lets add that up - 20-25 meals, 6-8 days of wardening. That is your upfront cost for adding a prisoner to the colony. And this is with extremely favorable colony with meshed skillsets, quick fine meals + impressive bedroom, and ~9-10 social. If any of those are worse, the cost is even higher.
Tynan, you say you want a large part of ingame drama to come from worthless and useless pawns. But when the simple act of recruitment can often straight up cost you 30% of your entire colony's productivity over the course of a quadrum (think medicine, wardening time, travel time for growers, cooks, and warden, growing time, cooking time, hauling time - it is a lot especially once you factor in inefficient hauling on vanilla - then there's potential risks of prison break, etc. etc.) then any competent player will necessarily be highly selective.
Of course, there are incap refuges but you yourself said you didn't want noob traps in the game? :D
Quote from: Madman666 on July 17, 2018, 12:20:22 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 12:15:48 AM
Better not. Plasteel is kinda scarce now. On my current default-sized map I only have something like 10 tiles of deep plasteel. Barely enough for a set of power armor for everyone. Autocannons would eat through it in a split moment.
Stick 3 people to LRMSs and you will have some plasteel for turrets to reload. They also should have more shots than steel ones. Or if you don't wanna use plasteel as ammo - use standart steel turrets.
3 people? It is assuming that I have 3 spare people. And then I'll have to go and mine it, and mining plasteel takes forever. I kinda prefer to run my bases with a skeleton crew (6-10 pawns). I'd prefer to have highly armored turrets with standard ammo.
Got an escape pod. She immediately self-tended and ran away from the map. Something is seriously wrong with them.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 12:28:01 AM
3 people? It is assuming that I have 3 spare people. And then I'll have to go and mine it, and mining plasteel takes forever. I kinda prefer to run my bases with a skeleton crew (6-10 pawns). I'd prefer to have highly armored turrets with standard ammo.
Well yeah, with just 10 people there won't be any way to have a decent contingent working on finding resources (and mining them also). But with just 10 people you don't really need plasteel turrets either. If the armor system for structures to be reworked - it would be enough to have steel ones (those should have at least medium armor), since you won't be getting overbloated game ending raids.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 17, 2018, 12:44:37 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 12:28:01 AM
3 people? It is assuming that I have 3 spare people. And then I'll have to go and mine it, and mining plasteel takes forever. I kinda prefer to run my bases with a skeleton crew (6-10 pawns). I'd prefer to have highly armored turrets with standard ammo.
Well yeah, with just 10 people there won't be any way to have a decent contingent working on finding resources (and mining them also). But with just 10 people you don't really need plasteel turrets either. If the armor system for structures to be reworked - it would be enough to have steel ones (those should have at least medium armor), since you won't be getting overbloated game ending raids.
Actually, with 10 people I desperately need better turrets, because in endgame raids I am outnumbered 1:10 to 1:20. Pawn count have only marginal effect on raid size.
Another infestation. Since now efficient fighting requires holding the line and covering shooters with melees, moving requires a tedious amount of micro. Having to use the context menu (no, I don't want to drop my weapon or attack my ally, and consuming spelopede corpse is not in my intentions too) does not help. Also, there should be an option to open/close door without trying to enter it when the pawn is nearby. And please, add an option to deconstruct hives without drafting.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 12:53:13 AM
Actually, with 10 people I desperately need better turrets, because in endgame raids I am outnumbered 1:10 to 1:20. Pawn count have only marginal effect on raid size.
Well you have a point if thats the case. Though it isn't really better if you have 20 pawns, since you are forced to have a lot more stuff for them including armor and weapons, which ends up bloating raids more and more. Infestations and mech raids get especially insane. Let the refueling system stay as it is then. But damn turrets could really use some armor.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 12:15:48 AM
Armor calculation is very misleading now. Tests have shown that overall armor rating is an abstract number that is relevant to nothing. While flak+devilstrand has the same armor as power armor set, the actual efficiency of power armor is way higher.
Wouldn't it have been easier and more accurate to say " I have no idea "?
At least then someone isn't going to assume that you're giving them a piece of information.
The
overall armor figure on a character's Gear tab is some sort of average armor value across all bodyparts. I don't know what the formula for it is but I can tell you for certain that it's not particularly informative. No matter what that number tells you putting on pants is not going to protect your eyes.
In regards to the armor system - The description of it in game is 100% accurate with the exception of the fact that it doesn't cover how pieces of armor that cover the same location interact with one another. I don't know how that works.
It could be additive, using some average values, or some other system entirely.
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 01:15:41 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 12:15:48 AM
Armor calculation is very misleading now. Tests have shown that overall armor rating is an abstract number that is relevant to nothing. While flak+devilstrand has the same armor as power armor set, the actual efficiency of power armor is way higher.
Wouldn't it have been easier and more accurate to say " I have no idea "?
At least then someone isn't going to assume that you're giving them a piece of information.
I have an idea. I can give you the decompiled formula if you want. But it won't be a piece of information, it would be a piece of data. And information derived from that data is - overall armor rating is an abstract number that has little to do with actual efficiency.
I looked it up myself: it's the same system as the old system: Each armor layer has it's shot at reducing damage, and it can further reduce it if both bruise.
The reason power armor is better is because 2 sets of 50% armor is worse than 1 set of 100% due to penetration. Not to mention if I had to choose between taking some extremely light bruises and some completely unmitigated cuts, or some bigger bruises and no cuts, I'd take the bigger bruises, as a big bruise is unlikely to knock out the entire appendage.
Also regarding flak: it only coveres the torso. If you actually want to just worry about torso damage, flak + devilstrand is actually better, but the neck is important and I don't think flak covers that, and losing limbs isn't that great either.
Level 8 doctor in a decent hospital and industrial medicine reliably tends with 90%+ quality. Kinda makes glitterworld medicine obsolete. Maybe rework it into a serum-type item that instantly tends all conditions with 100% quality bypassing pawn's medicine skill? Then it would be valuable backup in case of emergency.
Quote from: Greep on July 17, 2018, 01:44:44 AM
Also regarding flak: it only coveres the torso. If you actually want to just worry about torso damage, flak + devilstrand is actually better, but the neck is important and I don't think flak covers that, and losing limbs isn't that great either.
Limb loss is not that bad since we can craft bionics now. The neck is still a big concern though.
Hey Tynan I must complain about Disassembling Centipedes, I only get 10 Plasteel after shooting them like 1000 times? All their armor resistance came out of 10 Plasteel? Plate Armor requires 170 materials, a full set of Flak (vest/pants/jacket) requires 60+60+70= 190 materials, Power Armor requires 135 and 18 components...
Can you please increase the amount of Plasteel out of salvaging Centipedes? I understand that disassembling means we can only salvage a small amount... but only 10 units it's way too miserable...
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 17, 2018, 01:55:51 AM
I understand that disassembling means we can only salvage a small amount...
Why? It's a raw material, recycling it should be efficient enough.
Yeah if we're talking irl reasoning, you get like 90% back from metal recycling I think. It was just done for balancing late game. Maybe crashed mech ship parts could give more plasteel to compensate? That's a flat amount of plasteel for the early game that doesn't scale badly like when you start getting a dozen centipedes.
Cass - Hard - Naked Brutality - Permadeath
After 30 days, I haven't gotten anyone to join or recruit? Within expected probability?
Quote from: bobthegiant on July 17, 2018, 02:08:34 AM
Cass - Hard - Naked Brutality - Permadeath
After 30 days, I haven't gotten anyone to join or recruit? Within expected probability?
I'd expect one or two by then, but you may have gotten unlucky or made some mistakes. Any more info on what happened would be helpful (e.g. ever took a prisoner? Ever got a wanderer or refugee event?)
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 01:52:11 AM
Level 8 doctor in a decent hospital and industrial medicine reliably tends with 90%+ quality. Kinda makes glitterworld medicine obsolete. Maybe rework it into a serum-type item that instantly tends all conditions with 100% quality bypassing pawn's medicine skill? Then it would be valuable backup in case of emergency.
IMO glitterworld should be able to "overtend" past 100, or stop infections completely, or heal some number of hit points in a few seconds. It should give something beyond regular medicine, apart from the incredibly niche case of somehow still having bad doctors when you get some.
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 01:15:41 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 12:15:48 AM
Armor calculation is very misleading now. Tests have shown that overall armor rating is an abstract number that is relevant to nothing. While flak+devilstrand has the same armor as power armor set, the actual efficiency of power armor is way higher.
Wouldn't it have been easier and more accurate to say " I have no idea "?
At least then someone isn't going to assume that you're giving them a piece of information.
The overall armor figure on a character's Gear tab is some sort of average armor value across all bodyparts. I don't know what the formula for it is but I can tell you for certain that it's not particularly informative. No matter what that number tells you putting on pants is not going to protect your eyes.
In regards to the armor system - The description of it in game is 100% accurate with the exception of the fact that it doesn't cover how pieces of armor that cover the same location interact with one another. I don't know how that works.
It could be additive, using some average values, or some other system entirely.
since I am not code wizard, I did a simple test.
on one pawn I equipped:
legend hyperwevae button down shirt - 72 sharp
thrumbofur - 68.6 sharp
on another:
legendary charge lance - 72 arpen
If the layers are calculated additively, there should be a 68.6% chance for deflect/mitigation outcome
If the layers are rolled separately, there should be a 0% chance of deflect/mitigation - this guy might as well be naked.
Result - 18 torso shots, 18 torso destroyed, zero deflections, zero mitigations. The chance of 18 consecutive torso shots failing the 68.6% mitigation roll is .314^18, or 1 in 1.1 billion, so I'm pretty confident it is indeed the second.
(https://i.imgur.com/3AcRBXB.png)
TL;DR power armor king, and vest/duster combination for weakbois
QuoteAlso regarding flak: it only coveres the torso. If you actually want to just worry about torso damage, flak + devilstrand is actually better, but the neck is important and I don't think flak covers that, and losing limbs isn't that great either.
Even against torso, the power armor is better since you don't let the other guy double dip their arpen, and each later point of armor is actually worth more EHP than the one before it. So its incredibly deceptive to add up the sharps protections for the individual components.
e.g.
good power armor, 138 sharp
dstrand excelllent duster + excellent flak vest - 51.8 + 110 sharp - 161.8 ! But it is illusory.
in low arpen regime - say, something like normal autopistol with 15 arpen - power armor provides 123 effective armor, or 61.5% deflect, 38.5% mitigate, or 1/.192 = 5.2x EHP
whereas duster / flak combination is 36.8 / 95 effective. 1.38 (duster) * 3.47 (flak vest layer) = 4.78x overall
And this is the most favorable regime for duster / vest vs. power armor!
Obviously at high arpen, the duster might as well be made of paper, and power armor dominates even more strongly.
Quote from: Greep on July 17, 2018, 02:04:29 AM
Yeah if we're talking irl reasoning, you get like 90% back from metal recycling I think. It was just done for balancing late game. Maybe crashed mech ship parts could give more plasteel to compensate? That's a flat amount of plasteel for the early game that doesn't scale badly like when you start getting a dozen centipedes.
That's actually a huge balance problem. The game is free to throw anything on you, and you would have nothing from dealing with threats. Armor? It would be "tainted." Weapons? Vendors pay only a small fraction of their worth, and they are often damaged, reducing the price even more. Meat and leather? Well, that's why manhunters are the best "negative" event in the game - it gives fair rewards. You kill 20 angry elephants; you get tons of meat and leather. Still, 20 mad squirrels is a horrifying event. The game can throw 30 elephant-sized armored mechanoids on you, and you'll only get few kgs of useful metal by breaking down their wrecks. Overall it is an obviously unnatural factor that breaks any immersion.
My melee pawn just got their nose and jaw bitten off. Why we can make bionic heart, we only have wooden denture for a jaw and nothing for the nose?
Caravan doctors should self-tend without manual assignment.
So I've been playing a mountainous arid shrublands, randy extreme and seeing what a 0 turret run looks like. I cheated a little and built a sniper turret to test it out, though ;)
It actually feels a little easier since my wealth is a bit more efficient, although part of that could just be I found a pretty good alcove to hide out in. Instead of the rush for turrets I went rush for armor and then power armor/drilling.
Some thoughts on the run so far(~80 days):
1)The sniper turret is weird. Because it costs and maintains with uranium, you basically get to build exactly one, and only after deep drilling. It's a useful thing to build when you have nothing left to research, but it's not useful for where it is on the tech tree really.
2)Power armor is extremely effective at preserving your life, plate is super risky. This is mostly because 120% armor is like triple the effectiveness of 70% armor. Just buffing plate sounds iffy, as plasteel plate would become too good. It'd be nice if steel and wood had better armor strengths. Probably same for rare cloth/leather.
3) A deadfall killtrap is still worth building even if 50-60% of threats completely ignore it. In particular, those massive refugee chases seem to go right into them, and that takes a lot of the bite out of it, not to mention manhunter swarms end up being free meat. Well except for the boomalope swarm, that hurt.
4)IEDs are awesome. For the dudes that ignore killtraps, placeing a few outside the walls usually nabs one or two guys, and that's even without swarming raids.
5) Holy strombolli are spears effective against centipides. Like. Wow. WOW. dang. I've been used to just using a cheap gladius to stop them from using their big guns and then shooting for damage, but spears just absolutely wreck them.
6) It's just really disapointing how rare joywire and painstoppers are, and I wish they were craftable like bionics, or just more common from exotic caravans. One of my dudes got psychite addiction after he binged on flake and I was too afraid to arrest him (he was a melee in power armor!). So I was trying to get some joywire so I could later put him off the stuff before he got brain damaged. It took 3 summons of an exotic caravan to get it. Luckily he's worked off the tolerance to 90% so I thin he'll make it, but that took a really long time.
7) This mostly has just been a feeling I've had since about alpha 15 or so, but it's a little disappointing that crafting flake or selling corn is overwhelming the best way to make money. Sculptures get you maybe 1/3 of that for the work, and clothing was completely nerfed into oblivion in a15 or so. It does make sense that drug crafting should make the most profit since it's the only thing with a large potential risk (one addicted pawn is a big disadvantage), but it's just over the top the best. Selling corn seems to be the second best way of making money, which just feels weird. Heh. Corn flakes ::)
I haven't tried the LRMS yet, in the processing of building it, but being able to choose the target metal sounds excellent.
Current fort as it stands:
[attachment deleted due to age]
I'm on day 327 of my current colony. Cassandra Extreme, no mods.
I've been defending myself mostly using mostly just pawns to see how difficult/viable it is. I haven't used many animals in combat and the only turrets I have are in my base to re-direct sappers.
Obviously, I've survived thus far, so it's working, but attrition is slowly creeping up. My starter pawn who was a soldier pretty much his whole time in the colony has lost an eye, both arms and a leg over time. All have been replaced with biotics. One of my fighters is in a cyptosleep casket until I can get some healing mech serums because he's down to 3 / 10 in his brain from 2 different scars. One of my general hauler pawns also has brain damaged and the only reason I haven't banished him is he's married to a far more useful pawn, so he's basically just a walking mood buff. Various other soldiers are all missing fingers and toes here and there and the only one that doesn't have at least one biotic replacement limb is the one that's died and been revived twice.
I think healer mech serums should be a lot more common. In fact, I think they should be sold by Exotic Goods traders. I understand that ressurection serums are special and should be rare, but why exactly are healer mech serums rare? They can't really be abused, the most they can do is a bring a pawn back to their natural state. They aren't considerably stronger than Luciferium or Biotics. Exotic traders already sell things that could be problematic if you have an unlimited number, like psychic stun lances, and yet those items remain rare enough to be valuable. It would be nice if there was a more consistent and controllable way to mitigate permanent injuries. The injures themselves are purely random, why should the cure for them be?
That said, I've managed to get to day 300+ on Extreme without abusing animals or turrets, so there is definitely an improvement here over B18, I feel. Before I couldn't even get a few months before I'd have 8 colonists sharing 5 eyes.
Also, prosthetic noses and ears to fix disfigurement would be nice. There are biotic ears but I don't necessarily want a hearing bonus so much as I just want the pawn to not have a social penalty.
(https://i.imgur.com/cPQP0ml.jpg)
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 17, 2018, 02:45:05 AM
I think healer mech serums should be a lot more common.
I think so too, or have other alternatives to heal permanent stuff like scars. Never liked how my options are to cripple a pawn with prosthetic or make them op with bionics.
By the way, is it actually intentional that 0% part efficiency for the neck begins at 3/30 health, and only then linearly scales?
This seems a bit inconsistent, because for the case of all other vital organs that I tested (heart, stomach, brain), part efficiency scales linearly from 0/X to X/X health.
Seems a bit odd that 1/10 brain is survivable while 3/30 neck is not.
Finally got a healer mech serum stash just now. I sent two pawns and they got ambushed by 3 lancers. I could have beaten them with good positioning but since they appear instantly out of the blue and surround you, there was no way to handle it. This is really annoying with an enemy that has the possibility to kill pawns in a single shot, because it's more or less unavoidable that they'll get a few shots off each in such conditions. I was prepared with fighters standing by pre-loaded into drop pods and dropped in a third pawn to even the odds. One of my pawns lost a hand in the battle, but I won. I'm saving the serum to fix brain damage so that's another biotic part I'll need.
Then, when was on my way back to the colony the 3 of them got ambushed... by 2 Labrador retrievers. Yes, two of them, against 2 melee in power armor and a third in flak with a pulse rifle.
I think the random encounters in stashes and caravans still needs some tweaking.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 02:40:19 AM
That's actually a huge balance problem. The game is free to throw anything on you, and you would have nothing from dealing with threats. Armor? It would be "tainted." Weapons? Vendors pay only a small fraction of their worth, and they are often damaged, reducing the price even more. Meat and leather? Well, that's why manhunters are the best "negative" event in the game - it gives fair rewards. You kill 20 angry elephants; you get tons of meat and leather. Still, 20 mad squirrels is a horrifying event. The game can throw 30 elephant-sized armored mechanoids on you, and you'll only get few kgs of useful metal by breaking down their wrecks. Overall it is an obviously unnatural factor that breaks any immersion.
Thats true, but with the way 1.0 handles raids, crapton of plasteel you d get if the rewards were "fair" would make next raids a game-ender. I don't even know if you can make rewards fair with current threat generation system, without totally breaking the game.
Quote from: zizard on July 17, 2018, 02:16:33 AM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 01:52:11 AM
Level 8 doctor in a decent hospital and industrial medicine reliably tends with 90%+ quality. Kinda makes glitterworld medicine obsolete. Maybe rework it into a serum-type item that instantly tends all conditions with 100% quality bypassing pawn's medicine skill? Then it would be valuable backup in case of emergency.
I agree with this. Glitterworld medicine needs some kind of extra goody effect. Simply because by the time you have some of it you generally have doctors who do very well with normal, industrial medicine, if not some who even use herbal to great effect.
Right now Glitterworld medicine is only useful when you don't have it. Maybe the only exception is the rich explorer scenario.
IMO glitterworld should be able to "overtend" past 100, or stop infections completely, or heal some number of hit points in a few seconds. It should give something beyond regular medicine, apart from the incredibly niche case of somehow still having bad doctors when you get some.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 17, 2018, 03:16:30 AM
...Then, when was on my way back to the colony the 3 of them got ambushed... by 2 Labrador retrievers. Yes, two of them, against 2 melee in power armor and a third in flak with a pulse rifle.
I think the random encounters in stashes and caravans still needs some tweaking.
Oh come on, this sounds adorable.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 01:39:14 AM
I have an idea. I can give you the decompiled formula if you want. But it won't be a piece of information, it would be a piece of data. And information derived from that data is - overall armor rating is an abstract number that has little to do with actual efficiency.
If only we were all capable of providing decompiled formulae while simultaniously quibbling over irrelevent definitions to help obfuscate our ignorance and unwillingness to contribute to a discussion usefully.
What a world that'd be! - One I'd immediately set fire to obviously.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 17, 2018, 02:26:20 AM
in low arpen regime - say, something like normal autopistol with 15 arpen - power armor provides 123 effective armor, or 61.5% deflect, 38.5% mitigate, or 1/.192 = 5.2x EHP
Thanks for the test - useful information to have.
Where are you deriving that ratio from though? It's my understanding based on the description of armor in game that the deflection and mitigation chance of a strike affected by armor is a flat 50/50 respectively.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 17, 2018, 03:09:54 AM
By the way, is it actually intentional that 0% part efficiency for the neck begins at 3/30 health?
This seems a bit inconsistent, because for the case of all other vital organs that I tested (heart, stomach, brain), part efficiency scales linearly from 0/X to X/X health.
Seems a bit odd that 1/10 brain is survivable while 3/30 neck is not.
I can't have a look right now myself but is there any chance that they're dying at 3/30 neck health because their
eating % is dropping to 0% due to a combination of neck damage and consciousness, due to breathing reduction + pain?
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 17, 2018, 03:16:30 AM
Then, when was on my way back to the colony the 3 of them got ambushed... by 2 Labrador retrievers. Yes, two of them, against 2 melee in power armor and a third in flak with a pulse rifle.
I think the random encounters in stashes and caravans still needs some tweaking.
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.
New build! Nothing too crazy, mostly balancing. Ison is working on some localization system improvements so he's off the main game development atm.
A lot of bugs and other changes are being held off just because I want to get the balance in place first so there's time to test it.
Raw changelog is below. As always, the changelog is here for reference, but posts in this thread should please revolve around play experiences and ideally state the storyteller/difficulty and include screenshots of the "debug" history graphs.
Thank you to all those who gave feedback! I can't reply to each case but I'm certainly reading them all carefully.
---
Spine can now get permanent injuries.
Adjusted tundra and arid shrubland plant and tree density up. Slightly reduce saguaro cactus wood amount. Made tree sand cactus lifespan much longer. Increased all plants' lifespan.
Prisoners now have expectations the same way colonists do.
Increase "wild man wanders in" incident chance. Textile stuffs now have HP modifiers. For faster plasteel mining, changed mineable from 10,000HP to 8,000HP. Put watermills behind research. Removed waterproofing research. Allow making simple helmet at smithy. Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Storyteller refinements: -Adjust points per pawn based on wealth. -Adjust adaptation. -Adjust Randy pacing. -Adjust popultion intent curve. -Adjust animal contribution to threat points.
Misc text changes: -Fix typo: "repeated use will produce and addiction" -Fix typo: "Make sure that they get the best medical possible" -Fix spelling: "Commitment mode" -Reload anytime mode tooltip adjustment. -Relabel button: "Choose storyteller" to "Storyteller settings". -Fix: Resistance broken message reverses prisoner and warden. -Wanderer joins letter notes that you can banish sell or kill the joiner if you don't want him, but your people will be disturbed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now handles def injections.
Cleaned up keyed strings formatting.
Refactored MissingInjections() so its def-injections traversal can be reused. Added TranslationFilesCleaner (wip).
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.
On some level it feels a bit like a bug. We could set the minimum threat higher. But I also feel like these kinds of incidents are too amusing to give up.
QuoteI can't have a look right now myself but is there any chance that they're dying at 3/30 neck health because their eating % is dropping to 0% due to a combination of neck damage and consciousness, due to breathing reduction + pain?
Breathing stat is identical to neck part efficiency if no other breathing maluses exist. If other breathing maluses exist (e.g. asthma) they appear to be applied multiplicatively.
Eating stat, if both consc and breathing are impaired, appears to be consc*breathing, which means that it can only drop to zero if one of the two drops to zero. And breathing would only drop to zero at zero neck efficiency, or zero lung efficiency.
If you have a 5/30 neck, this will have 7% efficiency. If you introduce a hediff that reduces part efficiency by 10%, then it immediately kills the pawn. Thus we know that 0% part efficiency neck is fatal.
QuoteWhere are you deriving that ratio from though? It's my understanding based on the description of armor in game that the deflection and mitigation chance of a strike affected by armor is a flat 50/50 respectively.
From what I understand, the deflection chance is effective armor / 2. But I did not empirically test this, and its not like we can find 200% sharps armor sitting around..
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
If only we were all capable of providing decompiled formulae while simultaniously quibbling over irrelevent definitions to help obfuscate our ignorance and unwillingness to contribute to a discussion usefully.
What a world that'd be! - One I'd immediately set fire to obviously.
Our definitions of "irrelevant" and "usefully" are obviously different.
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
Where are you deriving that ratio from though? It's my understanding based on the description of armor in game that the deflection and mitigation chance of a strike affected by armor is a flat 50/50 respectively.
It's a little more complicated than that, the 50/50 rule is only really accurate if you have exactly 100% armor fighting exactly 0 penetration.
Edit: basically what bbq wrote is correct, effective armor/2. So if you had 200% armor and enemy had 0 penetration, you would never take any damage at all.
Edit: Removed the code, no reason to get too nerdy :D
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:22:15 AM
Oh come on, this sounds adorable.
Oh, no. I know your tricks.
"Oh, a mad rabbit how adorable!" Yea, right. Next thing you know, 2 colonists are blind and the third is dying to an infection.
...I may be a bit bitter.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 17, 2018, 03:34:05 AM
Breathing stat is identical to neck part efficiency if no other breathing maluses exist. If other breathing maluses exist (e.g. asthma) they appear to be applied multiplicatively.
Eating stat, if both consc and breathing are impaired, appears to be consc*breathing, which means that it can only drop to zero if one of the two drops to zero. And breathing would only drop to zero at zero neck efficiency, or zero lung efficiency.
If you have a 5/30 neck, this will have 7% efficiency. If you introduce a hediff that reduces part efficiency by 10%, then it immediately kills the pawn. Thus we know that 0% part efficiency neck is fatal.
Hrm.. that all makes sense. Makes 3/30 neck death even stranger.
It's also just occurring to me that necks are apparently tougher than limbs and skulls.
Quote
From what I understand, the deflection chance is effective armor / 2. But I did not empirically test this, and its not like we can find 200% sharps armor sitting around..
Judging by Greep's code dump it looks like you're right. Curse all mildly inaccurate tooltips!
That really makes the theoretical toughness of a Tough colonist in power armor quite whacky.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:33:11 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.
On some level it feels a bit like a bug. We could set the minimum threat higher. But I also feel like these kinds of incidents are too amusing to give up.
It was certainly more memorable than being attacked by 2 generic tribals that's for sure!
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 03:38:52 AM
Our definitions of "irrelevant" and "usefully" are obviously different.
A-yup!
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
-Adjust animal contribution to threat points.
I think you added a decimal place on accident in this build ;) Unless it really was meant to go from .09->.1
Transhumanist trait is not giving a mood buff for a bionic body part.
Sarcophagi no longer gives mood buff to burying a colonist.
Are these intended?
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:33:11 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.
On some level it feels a bit like a bug. We could set the minimum threat higher. But I also feel like these kinds of incidents are too amusing to give up.
Please keep them. The sense of dread of "Oh shit an ambush" to "Awwww it's a frail, asthmatic chicken with a missing beak I'm fine" is too storyful to go. "So lads how did the trip go anything nasty happen are you all ok? ..... Yeah we got attacked but it was just a chicken and we had it for lunch.... So you had chicken dinner while we faced off raiders ok I'm going on the next caravan for sure!"
About "commitment mode" I'm fine with it and all but maybe add a warning that if your save gets corrupted you have to start over. It is the reason I don't use it having had saves get corrupted before so even if that's the style I want to play then I can't and won't if i want to keep my colony safe from corruption.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
That's interesting.
It wasn't that purposeless for me. I used it widely, especially in mid-late game with bigger and better populated prisons, to be on good terms with prisoners in case I choose to recruit them before slaver arrives, and mostly to train social skill. Since it doesn't raise from trading and casual colonist chatting gives pretty negligible amount of social experience, it was the most logical to practice one's persuasion skills chatting with captured members of other factions, even if I don't want to recruit them, before trying full-scale diplomatic attempts with them as caravaning for peace talks.
I'd not call it confusing, but if it was, maybe it could be just explained better instead?
Well, now I recruit-arrest-recruit people for that. Feels weird, but negotiator's skill won't grow on it's own and amount of prisoners to recruit is already scarce enough.
Some observations based on playing a lot on swamps:
Planning designations do not visually stand out enough relative to the dense vegetation found in swamps and probably jungles.
It is tedious to place growing zones on rich soil or plan around unbuildable terrain because it's very hard to see the terrain. What I have to do is check each tile individually to see the fertility, or attempt to place floor tiles everywhere to know where I can actually build. There should be a view mode for terrain type similar to the one that shows where roofs are.
It would be good if there was an option to set the usual bills on growing zones ("harvest if less than x in stockpiles"), so that we can avoid harvesting more than needed, or at least have a checkbox to toggle harvesting on and off. The reason for this is because it is hard to calculate how many tiles of growing zones I need per colonist, and crops can be accidentally destroyed, so it is wise to overproduce a lot. Overproducing has downsides though and the workaround to prevent overproducing involves removing the growing zone and manually marking plants for harvesting. Which means that I then have to redo growing zones, which is tedious if I want to keep them on fertile soil for the reason mentioned in the previous paragraph.
There are too many "animals join" and "animal self tamed" events (is the latter more common on maps with many animals such as the swamp?). Speaking of animals, I have not tested this so won't say much but I suspect that the choice of keeping animals for food and money (especially cows and pigs) is a rather poor one compared to simply growing crops.
Hunting on maps with a lot of medium and large animals can be excessively profitable under certain circumstances. One can quickly make thousands of silver if there is a town in range that will buy meat before it rots, and one has an effective hunter (it just takes a bolt action rifle and good shooting skill). Elephant tusks add even more value.
I noticed that the electric smithy not unlocked when the player has electricity and smithing. It made me think that there was no electric smithy and seems like an oversight.
Penoxycycline on swamps is definitely useful, but perhaps only on pawns that fill key roles. The name makes me think it's an antibiotic since tetracyclines is a widely used class of antibiotics. Sleeping sickness and malaria are caused by parasites, while the plague is caused by bacterial infection. It's no wonder that people are confused about what penoxycycline actually does.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 17, 2018, 04:11:35 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
That's interesting.
It wasn't that purposeless for me. I used it widely, especially in mid-late game with bigger and better populated prisons, to be on good terms with prisoners in case I choose to recruit them. [...]
Same, it's actually a setting I use as often as release. You basically prepare the prisoner, but don't actually recruit them. Then later you can always choose to still go for the recruit or instead release him.
So purposeless? Not at all, not to me at least.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Spine can now get permanent injuries.
Adjusted tundra and arid shrubland plant and tree density up. Slightly reduce saguaro cactus wood amount. Made tree sand cactus lifespan much longer. Increased all plants' lifespan.
Prisoners now have expectations the same way colonists do.
Increase "wild man wanders in" incident chance. Textile stuffs now have HP modifiers. For faster plasteel mining, changed mineable from 10,000HP to 8,000HP. Put watermills behind research. Removed waterproofing research. Allow making simple helmet at smithy. Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Storyteller refinements: -Adjust points per pawn based on wealth. -Adjust adaptation. -Adjust Randy pacing. -Adjust popultion intent curve. -Adjust animal contribution to threat points.
Misc text changes: -Fix typo: "repeated use will produce and addiction" -Fix typo: "Make sure that they get the best medical possible" -Fix spelling: "Commitment mode" -Reload anytime mode tooltip adjustment. -Relabel button: "Choose storyteller" to "Storyteller settings". -Fix: Resistance broken message reverses prisoner and warden. -Wanderer joins letter notes that you can banish sell or kill the joiner if you don't want him, but your people will be disturbed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now handles def injections.
Cleaned up keyed strings formatting.
Refactored MissingInjections() so its def-injections traversal can be reused. Added TranslationFilesCleaner (wip).
I'll give my feedback based on my 1.0 experiences before this patch. More vegetation = definitely great, felt a bit low here and there. Especially arid shrubland often felt desert-like.
Hehe the wild man wanders in thing... as I said, never got the event in like 100 hours played or more in 1.0.
Plasteel being a bit less ridiculously slow in mining is surely appreciated.
Rest seems reasonable too. I am excited to try these out and provide my experiences once I've played - especially if they are very different from my expectations.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
New build! Nothing too crazy, mostly balancing. Ison is working on some localization system improvements so he's off the main game development atm.
A lot of bugs and other changes are being held off just because I want to get the balance in place first so there's time to test it.
Raw changelog is below. As always, the changelog is here for reference, but posts in this thread should please revolve around play experiences and ideally state the storyteller/difficulty and include screenshots of the "debug" history graphs.
Thank you to all those who gave feedback! I can't reply to each case but I'm certainly reading them all carefully.
---
Spine can now get permanent injuries.
Adjusted tundra and arid shrubland plant and tree density up. Slightly reduce saguaro cactus wood amount. Made tree sand cactus lifespan much longer. Increased all plants' lifespan.
Prisoners now have expectations the same way colonists do.
Increase "wild man wanders in" incident chance. Textile stuffs now have HP modifiers. For faster plasteel mining, changed mineable from 10,000HP to 8,000HP. Put watermills behind research. Removed waterproofing research. Allow making simple helmet at smithy. Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Storyteller refinements: -Adjust points per pawn based on wealth. -Adjust adaptation. -Adjust Randy pacing. -Adjust popultion intent curve. -Adjust animal contribution to threat points.
Misc text changes: -Fix typo: "repeated use will produce and addiction" -Fix typo: "Make sure that they get the best medical possible" -Fix spelling: "Commitment mode" -Reload anytime mode tooltip adjustment. -Relabel button: "Choose storyteller" to "Storyteller settings". -Fix: Resistance broken message reverses prisoner and warden. -Wanderer joins letter notes that you can banish sell or kill the joiner if you don't want him, but your people will be disturbed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now handles def injections.
Cleaned up keyed strings formatting.
Refactored MissingInjections() so its def-injections traversal can be reused. Added TranslationFilesCleaner (wip).
Ha - love the Luke reference on the Commitment mode tooltip!
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AMRemove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Well, I used it on prisoners I didn't want to recruit but I wanted to sell to level social and to light up the mood of the prisoners. Sad to see it gone.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 17, 2018, 04:46:32 AM
Quote from: Sirinox on July 17, 2018, 04:11:35 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
That's interesting.
It wasn't that purposeless for me. I used it widely, especially in mid-late game with bigger and better populated prisons, to be on good terms with prisoners in case I choose to recruit them. [...]
Same, it's actually a setting I use as often as release. You basically prepare the prisoner, but don't actually recruit them. Then later you can always choose to still go for the recruit or instead release him.
So purposeless? Not at all, not to me at least.
Yeah.. Couldn't agree more, I used it in quite the same manner since it totally fits a purpose. Lore wise, you wouldn't try to recruit every single cannibal and psychopath on the planet or simply release them back into the world before having a friendly chat with them beforehand.
In my opinion it'd be great to keep the option in the game (Not only for practicing your social skills - since there's not many other opportunities for that), but it would add more depth to the prisoner-management.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 17, 2018, 04:46:32 AM
Quote from: Sirinox on July 17, 2018, 04:11:35 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
That's interesting.
It wasn't that purposeless for me. I used it widely, especially in mid-late game with bigger and better populated prisons, to be on good terms with prisoners in case I choose to recruit them. [...]
Same, it's actually a setting I use as often as release. You basically prepare the prisoner, but don't actually recruit them. Then later you can always choose to still go for the recruit or instead release him.
So purposeless? Not at all, not to me at least.
I use this regurarly, too. Both to train the Social skill and to "prepare" the prisoner for potential recruitment. Also keeping their mood high via chatting prevents prison breaks (?).
Quote from: Greep on July 17, 2018, 05:16:06 AM
It'd be nice if no interaction was removed instead of friendly chat. If you're bothering to keep them in a cell, why are you ignoring them?
No time/manpower right now, but still need a warden to feed them.
Same as everyone else - sad that friendly chat was removed. It was a decent way of leveling social skills on your would be diplomat pawn and also allowed to establish friendly relations with future recruit without actually recruiting him for this time. This isn't a nice change.
I don't think I've really used anything besides release and recruit ever since prison breaks. Selling prisoners is so annoying, they usually eat more than they're worth before I get a chance to sell them >:(
Having several prisoners on friendly chat allowed to slowly train one or two colonists to become good traders and negotiators for peace talks quest. :(
I personally found friendly chat useful for building relations with prisoners that were addicted to something; get that relation with the warden up to +100 without having to deal with the full set of downsides that an addict has if you were to recruit them.
Quote from: Numar on July 17, 2018, 05:07:46 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AMRemove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Well, I used it on prisoners I didn't want to recruit but I wanted to sell to level social and to light up the mood of the prisoners. Sad to see it gone.
+1 for this, I used it a lot if I wasn't sure if I wanted the inmate, but wanted to prepare social. I think its meaning is self-explanatory when seen next to 'Chat and Recruit'. It was also good for RP.
Had a manhunter pack of panthers and a psychic ship. Managed to make them fight each other. Realized why pawns don't need water. They are totally dry themselves! That explains both that and why their bodies burn to ashes if set on fire. BTW, panthers would win if not inferno cannons.
Automatic rebuild does not work when the building is destroyed before it is built.
There should be some way to differentiate between firefighting, cleaning and home zones. I don't care if my stone deadfall trap is dirty or on fire, but I want my pawns to fix and rearm it, as well as loot anything that got caught (even it is managed to crawl away before bleeding out). BTW, repairing unarmed trap removes rearming designation. Also, why auto-rearm is not enabled by default?
Tired of losing animals because they are automatically assigned to follow handler after obedience is trained.
While taking the best medial bed usually is reasonable, when I rescue a wild predator I intend to tame I probably don't want it in my hospital.
When severely wounded pawn decides to break down into the daze and refuses to receive treatment it is annoying.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 05:48:46 AM
Also, why auto-rearm is not enabled by default?
Yeah this is kinda of annoying. I don't even get why it's a thing you would ever turn off.
I've been allied to an outlander town for about two years now. I haven't seen a natural "allies have arrived to help you" event in that time, but I have called them in manually a few times. I've found they're pretty much only useful to get the enemy raid to fire off their single-use rocket launchers at something I don't care about, and even then they don't always survive long enough for a full doomsday rocket aiming sequence. Maybe the naturally spawned allies are stronger, or there's a lot of variance and I just haven't seen strong groups yet. This is also on extreme, so if allies don't scale with the difficulty (in your favor) then I guess I wouldn't expect them to be particularly useful.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
Haven't got to play much of 1.0 yet and missed some update logs so might be missing something here but does this mean you can no longer build relations with a prisoner without attempting to recruit?
I used to friendly chat prisoner with addictions or negative mood buffs like "saw friend killed" and then begin recruit attempts once they wore off, without having to wait to build up a good relation
EDIT: seems I'm not the only one feeling this way, should've checked first.
Also, I liked no interaction so that you could just feed that one useless guy until a slave trader came around or you had a sudden urge for a human leather armchair
No compromises!
[attachment deleted due to age]
Well, while scars are indeed a problem, with healer serums being actually available (since quests aren't one way trips all the time anymore) and also since armor actually shrugging off hits, i find my pawns getting a lot less scars, once i get to plate\power armor. Usually they just get oneshot if the rng sucked for me. The only problem are brainshots, which helmets rarely save from and of course fingers flying in every fight.
Strangely i rarely get any feet injuries on my guys, though power armor indeed doesn't include cool space boots...
Quote from: JavaWho on July 17, 2018, 04:05:18 AM
Transhumanist trait is not giving a mood buff for a bionic body part.
Sarcophagi no longer gives mood buff to burying a colonist.
Are these intended?
Transhumanists require multiple artificial body parts to get a mood buff. A single replacement only gets rid of the "Transhumanist frustrated" debuff.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 17, 2018, 06:31:42 AM
Strangely i rarely get any feet injuries on my guys, though power armor indeed doesn't include cool space boots...
Tell it to my melee pawn (in power armor) who lost two toes, jaw and nose in the last quest. Had to spend serum to fix his nose so his wife won't abandon him.
Scars are a weird thing. It looks like they can only happen when a wound is not tended at all, so I never get them during actual gameplay, unless it is a small scratch that heals before doctor manages to tend it.
Had a colonist get a 9 point eye scar, now effectively blind in that eye and in huge pain and I can do nothing about it till I get a bionic eye. I can remove infected limbs and organs but not remove a useless eye that would actively make the colonist better not to have avan if not replaced. Some way to heal scars would be nice probably using glitterworld meds to make those more useful as well. Scars get to be such an issue as the game goes on and you have no way to deal with them beyond replacing them with bionics.
The increase in healing time is noticeable in that often people aren't healed from one fight before the next one happens. Social fights have now gone from annoying to bad.
Also pressing escape is bringing up the dev error menu and not cancelling out of menus or bringing up options, just a bit annoying it keeps popping up all the time for me.
Found a lump of plasteel. When preparing expedition realized, that I have no way to quickly see which of my pawns are good miners without closing the caravan menu. And I really need good miners since mining plasteel still takes forever. Mining 14 tiles took almost 3 days, even with 2 pawns 16 and 10 in mining. So it was 7 days for 525 plasteel. I had to fight an outpost, all that time my base was missing half of its defence.
Also, there is an inconsistency between the checkbox and input box controls. Checkbox controls can be assigned by drag and drop, input box needs extra click.
Food reminder is good, but there should be a reminder about bedrolls and medicine.
BTW about drag and drop. It would be really good to have for bills instead of buttons.
Another lump of plasteel. Guarded by outpost with 11 enemies. I have 7 pawns total, so can send no more than 4 without leaving the base totally defenseless. Without any fortifications on my side (and with fortifications on their) and without a sterile hospital nearby I don't like the odds.
While HP multiplier for textile is nice to have, pawns still complain on the percentage basis, so even if hyperthread apparel is still tougher than cloth, they would prefer cloth.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on July 16, 2018, 10:35:29 PM
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 16, 2018, 09:00:21 PM
Amusingly I love it when they throw a party right after a big battle. It's exactly what I'd do and it makes me think of the ends of episodes of TV shows or something where everybody's patched up sitting around BSing and then someone explains a bit too plainly what the gist of the episode was.
You will change your mind once you switch to Randy Extreme and you get 5 raids one after the other while your colonists are still recovering.
So what you're saying is if I make the game unfair it will be unfair all around, and not just in specific ways?
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 17, 2018, 06:39:53 AM
Also pressing escape is bringing up the dev error menu and not cancelling out of menus or bringing up options, just a bit annoying it keeps popping up all the time for me.
If you're getting error messages please copy and paste them here or in a bug thread, thanks.
My colonist lost a lung fighting off pirate's raid (high-quality devilstrand set with a flak vest). I've harvested replacement from one of the pirates, now all my colonists are sad. Please, can I get other colonists, who would share my belief in "lung for lung" justice? Or at least bionic lungs and kidneys.
QuoteRemove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing.
A little late to the show, but in principle I'm of the same oppinion as all the posters before me.
I used the option regulary on prisoners I intended to release.
The "social"-grind was a nice bonus but it just felt better than just ignoring them, considering the massive gain in faction points a release can bring.
Especially if it evens out the biblical organ justice. ( eye for an eye .. or lung or whatever .. )
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 17, 2018, 05:35:44 AM
I personally found friendly chat useful for building relations with prisoners that were addicted to something; get that relation with the warden up to +100 without having to deal with the full set of downsides that an addict has if you were to recruit them.
I used it for exactly this as well.
Plus, when i just wasn't sure i wanted them or not yet.
SILLINESS:
One of the most memorable moments in B18 to me is when I sent a 4 man squad (2 charge riflemen, 2 longswordsmen) to get a vanometric power cell and drop pod to what I expected was a heavy raider based outpost, only to be attacked by a total of ..... 18 manhunter chickens.
So yes, I do hope Tynan keeps the not so dangerous manhunter animal and other sorts of silliness.
QUESTS:
On current questing: a while ago (earlier builds, maybe four-five versions ago?), quests for archotech/rare gear was more common. Vanometric cells, psychic tower thingamabob, healer serums, antigrain shells, etc. Now, all the settlements are giving me quests and they reward stuff like TVs and resources (plasteel/uranium) and the odd masterwork furniture/weapon, and while this indeed a good thing, it does mean the rarer stuff are non-existent. The addition of these quests rewards, ironically, drown out the more interesting and rarer ones.
This is the same swamp/cassandra rough playthrough. 7 years in, not a single mech serum or the B18 stuff. I do however got 8 flatscreen/megascreen TVs at this point. I think the quests generator in the backgrounds needs more tuning. Alternatively, there could be a seperate "box" of quests for the rarer B18 stuff. So you have your mundane (destroy outpost, get furniture/weapons/materials) in one box or the more dangerous and rare "artefact" quests like archotech limbs and B18 rewards. Would also like to have a method of generating these quests themselves (maybe by using Research skill). It's a real pain needing to grind outposts and bases for a persona core just to wait the settlements to give me a mission. Heck, I don't think you can even spawn these quests in devmode.
HEALING:
As for limbs/lots digits, the big issue is just putting in more bionics does very little. I think the bionic ear should not even be a thing, as hearing does very little to improve the pawn in any social capacity. Another issue is that a pawn with have a scar on their right limb but have a missing finger on their left hand, pointlessly needing to install bionics where there doesn't need to be just to get rid of a minor debuff. Putting more prosthetics/bionics, I think, isn't the correct solution. I'd rather use the glitterworld meds I have (which I have very little), to get rid of a minor scar or restore a toe. It's even lore friendly! The description says:
"A kit of advanced ultra-tech medical supplies, probably manufactured on a distant glitterworld. It contains advanced polymorphic drugs, nanite diagnostic and healing assisters, a mini-imager, and various multi-use tools."
Nanites AND polymorphic drugs. Surely advance enough to restore a toe. This makes healer serums more useful for regrowing a lost limb, curing diseases, fixing brain injuries, and so on.
Also, if we can treat cirrhosis, then we should also be able to treat gut worms. What's the point of having all these good surgeons if you're only using them to patch bloody gaping holes.
PRISONER FRIENDLY CHAT:
I agree with everyone, put em back in. But I think this shows the underlying problem with the Social skill in RW. Aside from trading (which isn't a very good method to level up), what really other uses does Social skill has? There's very little use of them unless you have your best trader make a caravan run or do peace talks. I can think of a few methods to make Social more useful:
1. When drafted, be able to calm a raging colonist. Yes, there is a mod for this. It should reward a healthy amount of XP for success and a mediocre amount for failure.
2. Therapy: Psychology mod allows the player to treat both drug addiction and pyromania via a "surgery" and requires a minimum amount of 3 medicine and 6 social IIRC. The therapy mod (which name escapes me) also does this to an extent. Obviously therapy is more than just "Talk Really Good" but if you wanna give it more use, here it is. I don't know how it would be implemented, but it would be really nice to treat an addict. And, it has the great ability to make for good stories, which a primary vision of Tynan's for RW.
3. Social between pawns: One of my pawns cheated on her husband, it'd be really nice if there was option to convince them this was a bad idea. One of my highest Social pawns (13 Social) is an enemy with one of the pawns. It's also be really nice if they bury the hatchet, perhaps passively, and have a nice message pop up. So you know, more overall being nice and charismatic.
Anyway, gonna try the LRMS. Haven't build one yet. Will give report soon.
Why we can't also have a penalty for "Someone's organ-harvested" and "Someone organ harvested?"
Why "Slighted" memory lasts 20 days, and "attacked us, tried to burn us all and crippled several of us" lasts 1 day?
Man, get the message already! Your advances are not welcome, she has a husband.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on July 17, 2018, 02:04:29 AM
Yeah if we're talking irl reasoning, you get like 90% back from metal recycling I think. It was just done for balancing late game. Maybe crashed mech ship parts could give more plasteel to compensate? That's a flat amount of plasteel for the early game that doesn't scale badly like when you start getting a dozen centipedes.
Balancing late game? I barely entered mid-game. The lack of raw resources is heavy, specially after removing rare materials from world encounters. I'm still far from Deep Drilling. A game should not depend on traders to get Plasteel.
And not to mention that Flak armor requiring components is ridiculous since its not even an electrical item...
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 07:16:25 AM
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 17, 2018, 06:39:53 AM
Also pressing escape is bringing up the dev error menu and not cancelling out of menus or bringing up options, just a bit annoying it keeps popping up all the time for me.
If you're getting error messages please copy and paste them here or in a bug thread, thanks.
Yeah sorry i forgot I was kinda tired. I loaded up and it has stopped doing it, even though I restarted whilst it was doing it and it didn't effect it. Next time I get anything I'll be sure to post logs ASAP.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:33:11 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.
On some level it feels a bit like a bug. We could set the minimum threat higher. But I also feel like these kinds of incidents are too amusing to give up.
Please don't. There are already 10395128740956827692847962 things that kill us in rimworld. I really appreciate the wierd "threats" that aren't
actually threats. ESPECIALLY when they happen to hit right when they might be. I have died more than once to a hundred cuts from a micro-vermin mouth.
Ugh, that patch broke my entire game again. It was the mod "While you are up" which was checking all pawns constantly for the job "friendly chat" (obviously), took me 30 game starts and mod enabling/disabling to figure it out, since the error logs were useless.
Anyway... as I said, the option to befriend a prisoner and make him easy to recruit once you choose to (plus a reliable way to skill up social) is really appreciated. For social one could focus more on the internal colonist - colonist relationships, but I already said that a few pages before.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 02:14:30 AM
Quote from: bobthegiant on July 17, 2018, 02:08:34 AM
Cass - Hard - Naked Brutality - Permadeath
After 30 days, I haven't gotten anyone to join or recruit? Within expected probability?
I'd expect one or two by then, but you may have gotten unlucky or made some mistakes. Any more info on what happened would be helpful (e.g. ever took a prisoner? Ever got a wanderer or refugee event?)
No, nothing. No attempt, in anyway to add an additional pawn. Had 1 boomalope and 8 terriers self tame. I've had one set of two visitors, which were killed by nearby bugs (they started shooting at them). Three raids of one pawn, two, and two all which died.
I'll continue playing the save to see what happens.
Quote from: bobthegiant on July 17, 2018, 10:05:26 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 02:14:30 AM
Quote from: bobthegiant on July 17, 2018, 02:08:34 AM
Cass - Hard - Naked Brutality - Permadeath
After 30 days, I haven't gotten anyone to join or recruit? Within expected probability?
I'd expect one or two by then, but you may have gotten unlucky or made some mistakes. Any more info on what happened would be helpful (e.g. ever took a prisoner? Ever got a wanderer or refugee event?)
No, nothing. No attempt, in anyway to add an additional pawn. Had 1 boomalope and 8 terriers self tame. I've had one set of two visitors, which were killed by nearby bugs (they started shooting at them). Three raids of one pawn, two, and two all which died.
I'll continue playing the save to see what happens.
Just had 3 rescue pods in 2 my last game. The one before I had only a single one in 150 days
Thanks all for the info on the armor. The in-game information is quite misleading. Personally I like how the new armor system works. In my current playthrough, it makes a big difference when enemy pawns are armored. They walk through my traps and come out with only minor wounds. It feels realistic. I assume traps have no armor penetration?
Here's my proposal to make the system less inscrutable to players who don't dig into the source code.
1) Remove the 'overall armor' statistic. I understand the desire to make the system simple for non-power-gamers, but this statistic is unhelpful even to them. It encourages the player to pile on multiple layers of clothing to get this number higher, whereas the player would be better served by putting on one good piece of armor.
2) Fix the armor description to match the in-game calculations. Or, if it's too complex, remove the in-game information entirely. No information is better than incorrect information. Here's my suggested write-up.
The armor rating reflects the odds that the armor will reduce or entirely deflect the damage. Many attacks have armor penetration that will cancel part of this armor rating. In general, it is better to wear one good piece of armor than multiple layers of poorly armored clothing.
[Show me the details]
The game computes the damage reduction as follow.
Armor = ArmorRating - ArmorPenetration
Roll two random values A B, each between 0 and 99.
1) If Armor < RandomA, no damage reduction occurs.
2) Else if Armor/2 < RandomB, all the damage is deflected.
3) Else, half the damage is absorbed and half is converted to blunt damage.
When multiple layers of clothing are worn, the steps above are performed for each layer. In particular, the damage is reduced by half each time step 3 triggers for a layer, and nullified entirely when step 2 triggers for a layer.
[Edit: fix formula, had misunderstood bbqftw explanation]
Quote from: seerdecker on July 17, 2018, 10:42:30 AM
The armor rating reflects the odds that the armor will reduce or entirely deflect the damage. Many attacks have armor penetration that will cancel part of this armor rating. In general, it is better to wear one good piece of armor than multiple layers of poorly armored clothing.
[Show me the details]
The game computes the damage reduction as follow.
Armor = ArmorRating - ArmorPenetration
Roll three random values A B C, each between 0 and 99.
1) If Armor < RandomA, no damage reduction occurs.
2) Else if Armor/2 < RandomB, all the damage is deflected.
3) Else if Armor/2 < RandomC, half the damage is absorbed and half is converted to blunt damage.
4) Else, no damage reduction occurs.
When multiple layers of clothing are worn, the steps above are performed for each layer. In particular, the damage is reduced by half each time step 3 triggers for a layer, and nullified entirely when step 2 triggers for a layer.
[Edit: fix typo in formula]
This is the first description of the armor that I have actually followed, so I vote yes that this be included.
And thank you seerdecker :-)
I'm pretty sure I screwed up somewhere. I can't reconcile all the numbers bbqftw has obtained. I apologize if I posted more bad information here.
Multi-layer armor can be made much more reliable by absorbing armor penetration each time it is used in a calculation. But even that there should be an extended breakdown that would show per-part armor.
Flak would become more useful and interesting if it wasn't just a fixed set of items but plates sewn into existing clothes.
If you could make a devilstrand duster with steel plates or bear leather pants with plasteel plates that would be an interesting extension of the system, especially because it takes ages to get to power armour.
I find myself rarely using or making the flak pants and jacket tbh because they're so bad on temperature.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 17, 2018, 10:04:51 AM
Ugh, that patch broke my entire game again. It was the mod "While you are up" which was checking all pawns constantly for the job "friendly chat" (obviously), took me 30 game starts and mod enabling/disabling to figure it out, since the error logs were useless.
Anyway... as I said, the option to befriend a prisoner and make him easy to recruit once you choose to (plus a reliable way to skill up social) is really appreciated. For social one could focus more on the internal colonist - colonist relationships, but I already said that a few pages before.
Isn't while you are up baked into the game already?
Started naked brutality on rough. Awesome experience, even though short (only 1 year, because of my stupidity). Experienced three manhunter "packs" (I got heart attack when I read it, but then it was only A chicken... then A raccoon and A chinchilla, fun!). One toxic fallout, which took about one quarter of the year. Sadly, downed animals in toxic fallout rot immediately after being cut to death, but I was fine. Some visitors and traders, two raids consisting of one person, the second one bested me (my pawn was weak from food poisoning and got downed very quickly).
Got a few recruitment options, but they were all bad, so I only rescued them. (I wish there was an option to rescue even hostile faction members, because I usually play super nice, and an option to deny rescued person to join colony) EDIT: Now as I think of it, there probably is an option not to recruit downed and rescued pawn, I remember something from the patch notes, I'm not sure, maybe I am confusing this with banish option. Nevertheless, it would be awesome if I could also help but then not recruit people fleeing from pursuers. I am sad every time I deny an 80 year old person... banishing seems a little bit harsh, even though it practically means the very same thing)
What frustrated me was construction limitation. No possible recruits had high construction skills, nor my pawn, so I had to build redundant things just to level him up to build freezers etc. This was the only tedious thing I encountered, but I guess it's okay. Maybe a better thing would be to include quality of some things like freezers, where high quality would mean perfect efficiency, while lower quality would be... well, worse. But that would mean a new mechanic and it's not so important.
All in all, very enjoyable, naked brutality is awesome. Got an idea, but probably for modders, where there is no recruitment available, but research is much faster. Some experience like in The Martian by Andy Weir. RimWorld gets better and better. Today I'll start another run, hopefully longer.
Well. That was unfun.
My hunter triggered a boar revenge which, because for some reason my pawns hadn't reset the traps, meant three out of four of my pawns went down. That would have been a problem but manageable, except I got a "manhunting hares" event which meant the one who was being a doctor got taken down too. One of the ones she'd managed to tend before collapsing with blood loss then went on a murderous rage and killed the other one, so now there's only one colonist left and he's an escapee who is pretty much a hunter/cleaner.
I feel like Cassandra Medium is *waaay* too quick to stack events tbh. That's a couple of games I've started on it now and I just get chains of events that beat the crap out of my colonists. This is, as well, at the end of the first winter, so not like everything's even properly set up. If it was on hard or tough or extreme then it would feel fair enough, but medium should surely give you a little bit of breathing room before pounding your colony into the dirt?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Put watermills behind research.
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing..
I feel like you may have killed the watermills. Their big edge was they were a consistent power supply you could get from the start. Even if they are cheaper to research than batteries, Windmills+batteries are pretty strong.
Also I used Friendly Chat quite a bit. Both to build positive social interactions before recruiting (weird that you get better control over your pawns social when they are prisoners than when they are colonists), and just to keep withdrawling prisoners in prison for awhile before I recruit them, while still training my wardens.
And hey look, ALL of my colonists Elephant, Rhino, and some Heavy Fur clothes are now tattered xD Lost like 40% 'freshness' or whatever its called.
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:33:11 AM
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:25:47 AM
The last time I had a caravan ambushed it was by one, 6 year old rooster.. with a bad back.. and two scars.
https://imgur.com/a/SzlW3Ni
He was as delicious as he was foolish.
On some level it feels a bit like a bug. We could set the minimum threat higher. But I also feel like these kinds of incidents are too amusing to give up.
Second this. If circumstances can randomly combine into a situation much more difficult than the sum of their parts (and they can) then sometimes it's nice to have these comically weak 'threats', and stuff like lightning strikes hitting individual rats, and other random-ass silliness. Rimworld can be a pretty grim game at times, so having stuff to laugh at is nice.
Quote from: Sirsir on July 17, 2018, 12:44:47 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Put watermills behind research.
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing..
I feel like you may have killed the watermills. Their big edge was they were a consistent power supply you could get from the start.
All electrical sources should be gated behind reseach, wood-generators being pretty easy to unlock. This is a step towards a good direction.
Breaking the rule a bit to comment on the changelog... but friendly chat for prisoners was not useless. I often have a prisoner or two that I don't want in the colony to train my wardens on until I get a prisoner I like. I don't typically kill or release prisoners, especially if they are from a non-pirate faction that share my language.
\end rule breaking
My runs are doing alright. I'm playing hardest difficulty naked brutality with a custom scenario set to tribal tech. I wish I had a way to make a freezer as a tribal, even a fridge would be nice. I know the box cooler works for avoiding heat stroke, but some way to preserve meats would be a great bonus. Mina be salts maybe? Or a fridge (not freezer)?
Defense in the mountains is somewhat boring, relying on a maze of spring traps. Infestations get baited into a room then burned. The hardest things I dealt with were ships and drop pods. For ships as a tribal, it would awesome to be able to call on allies before the console. A caravan to a neighboring city to ask for help to kill a ship would be nice (since I have a few days).
To live, I find myself running away rather often and abandoning my home. I typically don't make it past winter. Which is expected for the difficulty, good job.
I know difficulty has been a discussion recently, but instead of making more enemies, making them smarter would be the way to go. Now, I'm not saying rewrite the waves of enemies, but keep track of the damage a wave of enemies does, and weight the chance of that type of attack higher based on previous success. Make the storyteller a little smarter. Maybe rename the difficulty levels to hostility of the story teller levels to get peoplenty away from choosing hard because they are pro gamer. This is simular to factorio biter aggresiveness.
All I can say for now from my phone, good luck!
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 17, 2018, 12:55:35 PM
All electrical sources should be gated behind reseach, wood-generators being pretty easy to unlock. This is a step towards a good direction.
Why? Electricity is already a quite big research. Also, the crashlanded scenario is balanced with immediate access to electricity in mind. The current state already makes it extra difficult in areas with little to no trees (read: not forest).
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 17, 2018, 12:55:35 PM
Quote from: Sirsir on July 17, 2018, 12:44:47 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 17, 2018, 03:30:55 AM
Put watermills behind research.
Remove friendly chat prisoner interaction mode since it's purposeless and confusing..
I feel like you may have killed the watermills. Their big edge was they were a consistent power supply you could get from the start.
All electrical sources should be gated behind reseach, wood-generators being pretty easy to unlock. This is a step towards a good direction.
I completely disagree. Electricity should be useful at some degree from the moment the research is there
It's not a bad move. One of the weaknesses of the game has always been to be able to build a fridge in the first few days. Just way too fast. You aren't stuck in "tribal mode" for long this way, but this forces you to not stockpile tons of meat or to consider pemmican maybe. Which isn't even an issue if you have wood. Without wood you can still build wind turbines. It just won't be entirely reliable.
Quote from: Serenity on July 17, 2018, 01:25:12 PM
It's not a bad move. One of the weaknesses of the game has always been to be able to build a fridge in the first few days. Just way too fast. You aren't stuck in "tribal mode" for long this way, but this forces you to not stockpile tons of meat or to consider pemmican maybe.
It is a bad move because it makes good researcher mandatory at the start as a crashlanded. Yo already need a good shooter (because shooting is a way to go), a half-decent brawler (because now you HAVE to cover your shooter), a good cook (or you'll spend half of the time vomiting and botching any work), a good constructor (or you can't build a lot of thing you really need and botch a ton of materials). If you want a mountain start (and 1.0 is heavily weighted in favor of mountain bases), you also need a capable miner. Crafting is not immediately necessary, but you'll want it soon. having a good medic is usually a good idea as well. There are 2 combat and 10 utility skills. It is good when all skills are useful, but when they are all vital AND randomly distributed? No. Just no. Main game mode should not require spending an hour pressing reroll button to make a crew that can survive the first month on medium difficulty.
Caravaning has really become a fun midgame experience now and when the colony runs like clockwork it is fun to watch the yellow dot crawl across the worldmap.
Still, always switching to the Worldmap just to check what the People still displayed on the top of the screen are up to feels sometimes a bit like a child asking "are we there yet ? "
Then I remembered a suggestion I made a long while ago, which I now know should be easily possible.
Display the ETA of the Caravan as Status Bar on top of the Caravan Members and for good looks throw in some Status Icons. One for Travelling, One for Resting and the Location Icon to show where the Pawns are at the moment.
Quote from: Serenity on July 17, 2018, 01:25:12 PM
It's not a bad move. One of the weaknesses of the game has always been to be able to build a fridge in the first few days. Just way too fast. You aren't stuck in "tribal mode" for long this way, but this forces you to not stockpile tons of meat or to consider pemmican maybe. Which isn't even an issue if you have wood. Without wood you can still build wind turbines. It just won't be entirely reliable.
I agree, the crashlanded start has felt way too competent in the past, I like seeing the tech broken up a bit. Someday it might be cool to have some basic research randomly attached to a colonist like an injury or addiction, say one colonist may know nothing, but another may know how to grow devilstrand or brew beer because that's what they did before the crash. I think random knowledge for pawns would be cool, but it should be rare, like 5%, and pretty low level.
Quote from: Serenity on July 17, 2018, 01:25:12 PM
It's not a bad move. One of the weaknesses of the game has always been to be able to build a fridge in the first few days. Just way too fast. You aren't stuck in "tribal mode" for long this way, but this forces you to not stockpile tons of meat or to consider pemmican maybe. Which isn't even an issue if you have wood. Without wood you can still build wind turbines. It just won't be entirely reliable.
It IS a bad move, because people naturally flying on friggin spaceships and crashlanding from those should have industrial level of tech, not neolithic. Having former urbworld inhabitants to rely on pemmican instead of a freezer makes no sense of whatsoever. "Tribal mode" should be reserved for tribal start.
Quote from: Crow_T on July 17, 2018, 01:52:38 PM
I agree, the crashlanded start has felt way too competent in the past, I like seeing the tech broken up a bit. Someday it might be cool to have some basic research randomly attached to a colonist like an injury or addiction, say one colonist may know nothing, but another may know how to grow devilstrand or brew beer because that's what they did before the crash. I think random knowledge for pawns would be cool, but it should be rare, like 5%, and pretty low level.
Crashlanded start should be competent, because its not tribal start with several half naked savages armed with sticks. Idustrial level city dwellers really shouldn't have to research tribal level meat preservation, before constructing a proper powered freezer. You want basic level tech progression - go tribal.
I agree though, that some colonists having a chance to bring some knowledge with them might be interesting.
They aren't tribals. You can still get proper electricity pretty fast. Even with a bad researcher you can easily get batteries soon. But just because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you should be able to build luxury colony right away. And really the only thing you need reliable electricity at the start is a freezer.
Quote from: Serenity on July 17, 2018, 02:03:29 PM
They aren't tribals. You can still get proper electricity pretty fast. Even with a bad researcher you can easily get batteries soon. But just because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you should be able to build luxury colony right away. And really the only thing you need reliable electricity at the start is a freezer.
We obviously have different concepts of "luxury colony". Just having a basic freezer cannot be considered living in luxury. If you have the knowledge of electricity, it automatically assumes that you have the tech of generating it and storing it (you really should start with battery research as well tbh, though i don't rely on them due to unpreventable explosion mechanic).
I ll say it once again - industrial level people should not rely on tribal means of survival, which includes food storage options. Pemmican should be used as traveling MRE equivalent, not for food preservation.
Its not like freezer first for crashlanded is even particularly optimal, but without refrigeration, you are looking at something like 10x more mouseclicks to control your food situation, since it requires far more manual pawn command.
Its interesting the first time around, but tedious the next times.
So you build the freezer, even if it costs you some win %
Here we go... Had to fight them off with 5 pawns. Had to rebuild a lot of turrets after. Cass medium.
(https://i.imgur.com/ES6T9uNs.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/ES6T9uN.png)(https://i.imgur.com/OdlOHRds.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/OdlOHRd.png)(https://i.imgur.com/iEQNAHAs.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/iEQNAHA.png)
Quote from: Serenity on July 17, 2018, 02:03:29 PM
They aren't tribals. You can still get proper electricity pretty fast. Even with a bad researcher you can easily get batteries soon. But just because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you should be able to build luxury colony right away. And really the only thing you need reliable electricity at the start is a freezer.
Wind generators are awfully unreliable, and all others are gated behind researches. And early research takes weeks due to unskilled pawn, low-efficiency lab and a lot of high-priority work. Manwhile you may need electricity for temperature control (passive coolers are no-go on non-forest maps even after last update), for nutrient paste dispenser if you don't have a cook (and that thing is just awful, and unreliable power makes it even more so), for stove if you do have a cook (again, fueled stove in non-forest is too expensive).
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
Wind generators are awfully unreliable, and all others are gated behind researches. And early research takes weeks due to unskilled pawn, low-efficiency lab and a lot of high-priority work. Manwhile you may need electricity for temperature control (passive coolers are no-go on non-forest maps even after last update), for nutrient paste dispenser if you don't have a cook (and that thing is just awful, and unreliable power makes it even more so), for stove if you do have a cook (again, fueled stove in non-forest is too expensive).
Iconic luxury colony you're drawing here ;)
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
Here we go... Had to fight them off with 5 pawns. Had to rebuild a lot of turrets after.
At least these events do offer a nice meat reward as opposed to human and mech raids, which bring usually only destruction and new colonist disabilities :P
Quote from: Madman666 on July 17, 2018, 02:18:00 PM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
Wind generators are awfully unreliable, and all others are gated behind researches. And early research takes weeks due to unskilled pawn, low-efficiency lab and a lot of high-priority work. Manwhile you may need electricity for temperature control (passive coolers are no-go on non-forest maps even after last update), for nutrient paste dispenser if you don't have a cook (and that thing is just awful, and unreliable power makes it even more so), for stove if you do have a cook (again, fueled stove in non-forest is too expensive).
Iconic luxury colony you're drawing here ;)
Yeah, I like a luxery of not dying to cold snap or heat wave, not having permanent 80% consciousness debuff and not burning all effectively non-renewable wood.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 17, 2018, 02:09:45 PM
Quote from: Serenity on July 17, 2018, 02:03:29 PM
They aren't tribals. You can still get proper electricity pretty fast. Even with a bad researcher you can easily get batteries soon. But just because you have the knowledge doesn't mean you should be able to build luxury colony right away. And really the only thing you need reliable electricity at the start is a freezer.
We obviously have different concepts of "luxury colony". Just having a basic freezer cannot be considered living in luxury. If you have the knowledge of electricity, it automatically assumes that you have the tech of generating it and storing it (you really should start with battery research as well tbh, though i don't rely on them due to unpreventable explosion mechanic).
I ll say it once again - industrial level people should not rely on tribal means of survival, which includes food storage options. Pemmican should be used as traveling MRE equivalent, not for food preservation.
Industrial level people nowadays in the absence of freezer don't rush making batteries and freezers from scrap, they just cook food in a quantities that won't spoil before get eaten. Same goes for Rimworld. Vegetables last long enough to store them without freezer for quite a while, meals last about 3 days iirc, a stock of meals ~3-4 for each pawn will be eaten before it spoils. I often play that way even not at tribal start, if I don't want to set up power early, before I get batteries or just still deciding where to place generators.
Anyway, wind generator power output while unreliable ranges drom 70 to 3000, and you only need 250 to power up a cooler. A generator w/o batteries is quite enough for one medium sized freezer, even more with extra insulating double walls.
Though wind and watermill generators work on the same principle, it's somewhat contradictory to have one being locked behind research and other not.
Exactly, freezers are a convenience tool, not an efficiency tool.
So why nerf something which primary purpose is reducing clicks while trading away win %?
At the cost of many clicks you can even stretch an animals rot span to 7 days by manually butchering and cooking and eating towards the later parts of the spoilage timer. But it may not be enjoyable to most to have to manually queue command micromanage certain pawns entire workday to accomplish this.
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 01:40:35 PM
It is a bad move because it makes good researcher mandatory at the start as a crashlanded. Yo already need a good shooter (because shooting is a way to go), a half-decent brawler (because now you HAVE to cover your shooter), a good cook (or you'll spend half of the time vomiting and botching any work), a good constructor (or you can't build a lot of thing you really need and botch a ton of materials). If you want a mountain start (and 1.0 is heavily weighted in favor of mountain bases), you also need a capable miner.
Absolutely none of that is mandatory. I like a good shooter, a good medic and a good social; Everything else is optional, based on how I want to play this particular colony; I try to get a good mix of stuff, but research, even now, is still one of my lowest priorities, and melee has always been, and continues to be, even in the newer paradigm of considerably stronger melee.
Even industrial-age+ colonists crashlanding on an unknown world aren't going to know how to build all of this stuff from the get-go; It's honestly a kindness that we have electrical engineering. I'm a pretty technical dude, with mechanical and electronic experience, and I couldn't build a generator, cooler or heater without a lot of time spent figuring out how. The fact that I have a basic understanding of principles and a solid idea of what's possible puts me head and shoulders above a primitive tribesman, but I'm not going to have the knowledge from the beginning; And chances are good that a random sampling of 2 other people aren't going to, either.
So while I do some research, I go primitive. I hunt only as much meat as I can reasonably eat in a couple days. If I have even a half-ass farmer, I farm. If I've got nothing but shitty farmers, I still farm. Research is more important than it was, but it's still quite doable without it for quite some time. This feels real, this feels right; It's always bugged me how quickly a random bunch of strangers can build a high-tech colony, so moving away from that is a good change.
Quote from: Admiral Obvious on July 17, 2018, 12:10:06 PM
Isn't while you are up baked into the game already?
Yes and no. The general idea is in the game, but it's very non-aggressive, while WYAU is... was extremely aggressively searching for things to haul, since the latest bugfix it is moderately aggressive, but still way more reliable and predictable than vanilla hauling.
When loading a 1966 save in 1967 all my produced textile items took around 23% damage. I had a barn full of animal nests on 77% and I suddenly didn't have any fulfilled clothing work orders despite previously an inventory full of good devilstrand gear, it was all suddenly damaged.
I know that loading cross-version is warned about being unstable but that seemed like a really *odd* side effect so I thought I would mention it here. (I won't raise a bug unless i reproduce it with a clean playthrough).
Quote from: Eterm on July 17, 2018, 02:59:50 PM
When loading a 1966 save in 1967 all my produced textile items took around 23% damage. I had a barn full of animal nests on 77% and I suddenly didn't have any fulfilled clothing work orders despite previously an inventory full of good devilstrand gear, it was all suddenly damaged.
I know that loading cross-version is warned about being unstable but that seemed like a really *odd* side effect so I thought I would mention it here. (I won't raise a bug unless i reproduce it with a clean playthrough).
If the maximum HP of those items went up in the build change, that would cause it, as the items CURRENT hp didn't go up.
Similarly, if an item's maximum hp goes DOWN in a build change, you can find items with more current hp than their maximum.
When we are Theorycrafting ... if you put the technologies required in a real world timeline it would be something like this
Meat Curing / Drying / Sausages and all the other preparations not requiering vegetables
Water and Wind Mechanical Power
Natural Ice in specially build storehouses /
Steam Powered Mechanical Power
Electricity / Dynamo Generated Power
Batteries / Chemically Generated Power
Combustion Engines
Fluid Based Refrigeration / Air Conditioning / Industrial Ice Production
Fluid Based Small Refrigeration Units
suggestions : put refrigeration behind research instead of reliable power generators
Oppinion from playing experience : The Freezer is a must have early on, because there is no other reliable option to store meat based food. Without a Freezer it is Hand-to-Mouth while praying that nothing will destroy your feeble farm and enough huntable animals and forageable are around.
And that your Idiot pawns will carry your foraged food fast enough before it wastes away or gets eaten outside.
Even Pemmican is only reliable after a farm is established.
So the solution might be something completely different than trying to balance how the freezer is the only solution for food storage.
Quote from: Tass237 on July 17, 2018, 03:01:09 PM
If the maximum HP of those items went up in the build change, that would cause it, as the items CURRENT hp didn't go up.
Similarly, if an item's maximum hp goes DOWN in a build change, you can find items with more current hp than their maximum.
Thanks, that explains it perfectly, they all appear to have 130 hitpoints now, 100/130 = 77%.
As a bonus here's my debug chart for the playthrough. The adaptation line was tracking the other pretty well but after one particularly nasty raid (actually it was an infestation I think? (Maybe a drop-pod raid?) ), the red line took off and the adaption hasn't kept up.
Edit: Crashlanded Cassandra Medium
[attachment deleted due to age]
Made it to day 65 on 1964 (some early game stories are in a previous post) but it looks like the new build has an incompatibility which is making prisoner recruitment UI not appear, so I'm gonna start a new colony. I doubt this is a real bug, as starting a new game and dev spawning in a prisoner shows the recruitment UI just fine, so I didn't post anything to the bug forum.
Ramp up graph attached.
A couple more thoughts from having played ~10 colonies on 1.0 now:
Random dislikes:
- The change of the name of the "Character" tab to "Char" for colonist details -- yes, I get that all the tabs are the same size now, but "char" feels ugly (no offense intended, I've made this trade off in UI design myself before). I also think that "Character" is much more obvious for new players than "Char".
- While in general I like the new art, I don't really like the neutroamine graphic. Not sure why, but it seems a little out of place to me
- I don't really like the names "commitment mode" and "reload anytime mode" -- they feel awkward (hence the need to have "mode" in both of them). I think the tooltips on these are good though.
Random likes:
- Having "border friction" with factions seems well done. I wasn't one to settle right next to a faction outpost anyway, but now the penalty really encourages me to get a little further away just to keep alive the possibility of caravan trade.
- The "inspired" icon and inspiration time remaining are really nice to have -- it gives enough info on the pawn icon to keep me from forgetting about inspirations.
- Combining animal and colonist zones is nice. Reduces unncessesary complexity, especially for new players.
- I generally like the new leather types. I'm not sure if I'm just paying more attention now, but it feels good to scan the map and see a megasloth -- good armor! Hunting feels more interactive, and I often hunt for leather now, whereas before I always hunted just for food.
[attachment deleted due to age]
*LOL*
A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 17, 2018, 02:30:16 PM
Absolutely none of that is mandatory. I like a good shooter, a good medic and a good social; Everything else is optional, based on how I want to play this particular colony; I try to get a good mix of stuff, but research, even now, is still one of my lowest priorities, and melee has always been, and continues to be, even in the newer paradigm of considerably stronger melee.
Even industrial-age+ colonists crashlanding on an unknown world aren't going to know how to build all of this stuff from the get-go; It's honestly a kindness that we have electrical engineering. I'm a pretty technical dude, with mechanical and electronic experience, and I couldn't build a generator, cooler or heater without a lot of time spent figuring out how. The fact that I have a basic understanding of principles and a solid idea of what's possible puts me head and shoulders above a primitive tribesman, but I'm not going to have the knowledge from the beginning; And chances are good that a random sampling of 2 other people aren't going to, either.
So while I do some research, I go primitive. I hunt only as much meat as I can reasonably eat in a couple days. If I have even a half-ass farmer, I farm. If I've got nothing but shitty farmers, I still farm. Research is more important than it was, but it's still quite doable without it for quite some time. This feels real, this feels right; It's always bugged me how quickly a random bunch of strangers can build a high-tech colony, so moving away from that is a good change.
I agree, research felt too quick previously. The changes place more importance on it, and allow more diversity of playstyle throughout a run
I agree that 'Char' doesn't seem right. I didn't have a problem with the tabs being different sizes. I suppose 'Stats' could work, but it doesn't feel as 'RP-ey' as Character.
There's no point trying to argue about research from a real life perspective - obviously a random person from our society (an industrial civilisation) would know barely any of the techs, not even complex clothing or furniture. Who could turn raw materials like stone and steel into a refrigerator? I think putting these things behind a research barrier is better for gameplay.
The only concern I have is being able to survive a heatwave - this really does necessitate researching a cooling tech which may be impossible without a decent researcher in many biomes.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 17, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
*LOL*
A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.
Name it something French, like Baguette.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 17, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
*LOL*
A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.
That's what I call instant surrender. I would totally patch it up and keep it save for being such a smart animal.
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 17, 2018, 03:31:36 PM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 17, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
*LOL*
A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.
Name it something French, like Baguette.
To late. I don't have tame Alpacas in my current colony. I have a bunch of wargs, pigs, elefants and a single boomalope.
Every animal that self tames just gets send to a zone near my freezer and is set to be butchered.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 17, 2018, 03:45:50 PM
That's what I call instant surrender. I would totally patch it up and keep it save for being such a smart animal.
In retrospect I should have done that, it would have made for the better story :-[
Looks like high quality Psychic foil helmets are on the list of items that world quests can generate which is a real punch in the crotch.
A legendary Psychic foil helmet is worth roughly the same amount as a bolt-action rifle of the same quality while not really providing any of the bonuses normally associated with high quality items.
To be frank it doesn't make a lot of sense that foil helmets even have quality given that they've got 40 health and have armor values worse than war masks. Being higher quality doesn't make them significantly better at the only thing they're supposed to do - Counteract psychic debuffs. Could easily strip quality off them and nobody would even notice.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 17, 2018, 02:30:16 PM
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 01:40:35 PM
It is a bad move because it makes good researcher mandatory at the start as a crashlanded. Yo already need a good shooter (because shooting is a way to go), a half-decent brawler (because now you HAVE to cover your shooter), a good cook (or you'll spend half of the time vomiting and botching any work), a good constructor (or you can't build a lot of thing you really need and botch a ton of materials). If you want a mountain start (and 1.0 is heavily weighted in favor of mountain bases), you also need a capable miner.
Absolutely none of that is mandatory. I like a good shooter, a good medic and a good social; Everything else is optional, based on how I want to play this particular colony; I try to get a good mix of stuff, but research, even now, is still one of my lowest priorities, and melee has always been, and continues to be, even in the newer paradigm of considerably stronger melee.
Even industrial-age+ colonists crashlanding on an unknown world aren't going to know how to build all of this stuff from the get-go; It's honestly a kindness that we have electrical engineering. I'm a pretty technical dude, with mechanical and electronic experience, and I couldn't build a generator, cooler or heater without a lot of time spent figuring out how. The fact that I have a basic understanding of principles and a solid idea of what's possible puts me head and shoulders above a primitive tribesman, but I'm not going to have the knowledge from the beginning; And chances are good that a random sampling of 2 other people aren't going to, either.
So while I do some research, I go primitive. I hunt only as much meat as I can reasonably eat in a couple days. If I have even a half-ass farmer, I farm. If I've got nothing but shitty farmers, I still farm. Research is more important than it was, but it's still quite doable without it for quite some time. This feels real, this feels right; It's always bugged me how quickly a random bunch of strangers can build a high-tech colony, so moving away from that is a good change.
Couldn't agree more. Although I have to say that I'm happy to play with nothing but one mediocre doctor.
You should give melee another whirl though - It's in a really good spot especially post shield belts.
The notion that you
need a perfect start is ridiculous and is born of an insane negativity bias.
The same goes for mountain starts. You can choose to play that way but it has its own problems that can cause it to be a massive pain in the ass.
Edit: I mean for pitties sake - The naked brutality scenario exists and it's
doable. You can even be stuck with a pawn incapable of violence and it's still
doableQuote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
Here we go... Had to fight them off with 5 pawns. Had to rebuild a lot of turrets after. Cass medium.
(https://i.imgur.com/ES6T9uNs.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/ES6T9uN.png)(https://i.imgur.com/OdlOHRds.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/OdlOHRd.png)(https://i.imgur.com/iEQNAHAs.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/iEQNAHA.png)
Well no.. you didn't "have" to fight them off. They're manhunters. Doors exist.
And funnily enough just as I started playing today I got a similar event - Thought I'd share my experience with it. Cass - Rough. Trying to breed 150 capybaras as a victory condition. They're not even trained in obedience.
https://imgur.com/a/nC63HCd
Not super obvious from that shot but that's 12 megasloths.
And here they are dead along with the wounds.
https://imgur.com/a/YaLprYE
Not what I'd call devastating. I even ran out to fight them rather than waiting for them to bludgeon themselves to death on the 90 or so wooden traps outside my doors.
To be honest I could've probably done it with 2 people with revolvers. Megasloths are
slow and large. It's like shooting the side of a barn. As it stands I decided to beat them to death to speed up the process.
Squirrels would've been scarier to be honest.
Quote
I don't have tame Alpacas in my current colony. I have a bunch of wargs, pigs, elefants and a single boomalope.
Tell me - How are your elephants going? I found in my previous games that they were gigantic wastes of food that didn't do anything useful.
They can't haul large amounts with their carry capacity because virtually everything only stacks to 75 anyway.
They're gigantic so the eat -all- the gunfire.
They eat a truly ridiculous amount of food (And your crops if you're not preventing them from going there which means they can't haul your crops, bleh!)
And they crap all over your floors constantly >.<
Think I'd rather have the tusks to be honest. Or another 2 dogs.
Quote from: robno on July 17, 2018, 03:30:51 PM
There's no point trying to argue about research from a real life perspective - obviously a random person from our society (an industrial civilisation) would know barely any of the techs, not even complex clothing or furniture. Who could turn raw materials like stone and steel into a refrigerator? I think putting these things behind a research barrier is better for gameplay.
The only concern I have is being able to survive a heatwave - this really does necessitate researching a cooling tech which may be impossible without a decent researcher in many biomes.
Wanna address the first part real quick: While we shouldn't expect this game to mirror 'realism' exactly, it's still always a thing that should be kept in mind, because games like this are always a little bit about suspension of disbelief. You're going to have to accept some things are true in order to tell a compelling story. But there's also a point where suspension of disbelief gets to be too hard, and it's often the tiniest things; You'll be fine with dragons or FTL travel, but a leather shirt shrugging off shotgun blasts is the thing that's going to get you. So don't dismiss 'realism' arguments entirely. It's short hand for 'feels right/wrong' in context, and what feels right or wrong is very important when you're asking people to suspend disbelief.
Regarding heat waves: Crashlanded now has access to the passive cooler, doesn't it? An arid or desert environment makes them considerably more expensive, but they're still available. In anything but the hottest environments, I've managed to generally just tough heat waves out without one, though; Everyone's miserable, and always on the edge of heat stroke, but they're survivable. Where trees are available though, they're actually really effective, and I've recently become a convert, instead of just trying to barely survive.
I do think that overhead roofs should have a greater effect, but I think Tynan would have to rewrite whole swathes of the code to make that work, and I doubt it's worthwhile.
Quote from: Boboid on July 17, 2018, 03:52:29 PM
You should give melee another whirl though - It's in a really good spot especially post shield belts.
I didn't say my reasoning was
smart, it's just where I'm at right now.
QuoteThe naked brutality scenario exists and it's doable. You can even be stuck with a pawn incapable of violence and it's still doable
Read back a few pages, and you'll see I tried something even harder than Naked Brutality, and aside from one early, rather funny, backfire, it's going well enough for me; original pawn (after my first got kidnapped and left me waiting for randoms) was incapable of research, firefighting and cooking; Now it's three pawns, doing relatively well.
Regarding research: Intellectual is one of the things I don't really value highly on starting pawns. The reason being is that it's not hard to get a research pawn. Since they'll be spending all their work time researching it doesn't matter if research is literally the only thing they can do. I don't care if they can't dumb labor, I don't care if they literally have no other passions besides researching, I don't care if they're a slowpoke. The bar for a research pawn is extremely low, so I'm very likely to find someone suitable.
So why waste one of the three pawns I get to reroll over and over on trying to get a good stat in something I can take some staggeringly ugly abrasive pawn with 2 peg legs that won't dumb labor and lock them in a bedroom with a research bench and be fine? Even when I have pawns that have good intellectual to start they rarely end up researching for long because starting pawns tend to be good at a lot of things so I usually need them to do those things instead. As soon as an intellect capable pawn shows up, odds are they won't be as good as a starting pawn meaning I'm moving my starter off research and using the new pawn, who likely isn't good at much yet.
I think the changes are great, personally. You actually have to really think about what you need to research next instead of just always going micro-electronics into machining every single game and going "Eh whatever" for the rest of the game.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 17, 2018, 04:10:35 PM
Wanna address the first part real quick: While we shouldn't expect this game to mirror 'realism' exactly, it's still always a thing that should be kept in mind, because games like this are always a little bit about suspension of disbelief.
Suspension works pretty good in games that are about gameplay, where lore, setting, and other stuff are just a fluff around gameplay, Rimworld is positioned as a story generator. And for story generator believability of the story is absolutely critical. Unnatural, cheesy design choices just scream about how fake the story is. It just doesn't add up.
Wow, the adjustment to difficulty in .1967. The fun points in my save increased by 40% in a week.
Figured I would accept the next chased refugee. Turned out to be 18 enemies (vs my 10) with good guns, 2 Doomsdays and 1 Triple RL (Cass Medium). With some insanity lances, bionic leg kiting and shield belt dancing I beat it. Even if most of my guys, and the refugee, died. My pawns had decent armor and assault rifles, save for 2 who had a bionic eye, arm and leg each, and charge lances.
It was a fun challenge, but it seemed odd to meet a force stronger than your own on medium. I only fought the raid as an experiment; there's no way this would be worth the risk in serious play.
(https://i.imgur.com/LFOP790.png)
edit: And next day, no kidding, a raid of 8 guys with bolt rifles and machine pistols shows up. I have 2 pawns that aren't dead or incap. Fun points is 45 and adaptation is -30.
e. Made them chase me in circles through my base waiting for incap to get up. Repelled the raid and captured one. Yay!
Hello, first time hero here.
I have few hundreds of hours played on Rimworld but I'm still playing rather for fun watching my colony prosper or die horribly.
Last build I played on Randy Rough, Boreal Forest, Full Commitment mode, large hills. Craslanded Scenario but with only basic clothes, 5 meals and a steel knife. Started pretty nicely, people were adding up, after two quadrums already on 8 people.
Biggest problem was winter as we didn't food and a lot of people were waking up with starvation. Always some very lucky animals came and made us nice dinners so that was nice. By the end of winter I finally researched hydroponics and with two geothermal generators and 1k of steel in stockpile I finally made myself some nice rice farm and I barely pulled thru even tho when the snow finally disappeared and I sowed my big outside fields, cold snap happened.
What ended my colony was when psychic ship fell on one side of my map. It started slowly with -12 mood debuff. I sent my builder to build some walls from where I was planning to take the ship on. It was only day 57 so it couldn't be that big eh? Building those defensive walls took some time as he was my only builder and he had a lot of work in the base with those hydroponics. Halfway to finishing it raid arrived and started preparing on my only side I had pretty poor defensive perimeter on. So I made very clever decision to move to them as they were preparing behind big natural wall and I was planning to catch them with my melees as they move onto my base so they couldn't shoot properly (They had assault rifle and some bolt-actions and pistols. I had only some maces and two bolt-action rifles.
Fortunately the action happened pretty well. Nobody died from my side, only 3 downed. Raid started to run away, one of them started to run TO my colony. Hmm. So I picked few new future recruits and my downed colonists and ran with this one raider to my colony. He started banging on one of my doors as my people were passing thru other door to my base. I said to myself "well, one more recruit wouldn't hurt" so I sent my builder(who is also brawler and nimble with 12 in melee with passion) to get this last raider banging on my door. As soon as he got into melee range the raider did quick 180 bashed him into head and killed my colonist.
And it all spiralled pretty quickly to hell then. Ship debuff jumped to -24, colonist and friend of everyone died, builder had even lover Paula who despaired even more. She was also one of my medics (In 8 colonists ONLY 2 were capable of caring with medical 8 and 6). First murderous rage of some random colonist. We pacified him. In fact Paula was holding pretty well with no break. Another murderous rage from someone else, also handled pretty well. So I had a lot of people injured but Paula without any injury tending to them.
Ship jumped to -36.
Everyone was now on 0 mood. Leo said "Better live with rats than this" and ran away to live as a wild man. I had to do something with this ship, it was now or never. Sent everyone to those half finished walls and started to shoot the ship. Oh hey, only two long range scythers. (I think scythers are only melee now but don't remember what are called the range ones) I killed them "pretty" easily with only one colonist getting shot twice. Send the mclsoe to ship to destroy it as soon as possible. Well something didn't work out as I was giving orders to them as a group and while they did destroy the ship, Paula managed to hit and kill the injured colonist. One less friend.
The dissappearance of -36 didn't at all by now. Another murderous spree, one jailbreaking (Kinda weird as she unlocked him, and shouted him to run and maybe coz she was standing in the door the first thing he did was to knock her out (He was fully healed by now with 15 in melee) and he knocked another one then, another murderous spree and now both my medics can't walk badly injured no one to tend to my colonist everyone is slowly dying. Well that was fun!
tl:dr : I failed and died.
Next try at Naked Brutality 3 drop pods in eight day, then raider came and kidnaped my colonist so my story was over and I was watching the three dummies laying in my house (6x5) next to meals and everything and slowly died by malnutrition coz they weren't healed to maximum. Working properly but funny.
Last thing in my new colony I had husband and wife with mother of the husband. The mother got infection in her liver so she had no chance to survive with herbal medicine as it decreases blood filtration so I wanted to try to euthanise her to end her suffering with the wife.. well.. the husband has now -150 with her as she killed his friend, mother and a colonist. Why do we even have the choice to euthanise?
Adding screenshot of adaptation with my 66 days colony.
Great work with the Rimworld, love playing it.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: fritzgryphon on July 17, 2018, 04:29:18 PM
It was a fun challenge, but it seemed odd to meet a force stronger than your own on medium.
Chased refugee raids are currently as OP as infestations are, so thats no surprise. But medium difficulty putting you down like that is. And a nasty one.
The latest changes broke something in the language interpreter.
I got 292 new errors that weren't there yesterday:
(And this is NOT a difference in the xml files between 1966 and 1967)
Translation report for German
========== General load errors (0) ==========
========== Def-injected translations load errors (292) ==========
Couldn't inject LuciferiumAddiction.stages.withdrawal.label into Verse.HediffDef (Hediffs_Global_Drugs.xml): None of the list elements have a handle named withdrawal.
Couldn't inject LuciferiumAddiction.stages.withdrawal.label into Verse.HediffDef (Hediffs_Global_Drugs.xml): None of the list elements have a handle named withdrawal.
Couldn't inject AnimalChat.logRulesInitiator.rulesStrings into RimWorld.InteractionDef (Interactions_Animal.xml): Field rulesStrings defined on type Verse.Grammar.RulePack is not a field on the target object which is of type RimWorld.InteractionDef.
Parameter name: obj
...
...
Btw: Can you maybe switch the coding of the translation report file from ANSI to UTF-8?
For german I get entries like this: 'Mir gefällt meine Arbeit.' where it should be 'Mir gefällt meine Arbeit.' instead.
Friendlies (event, not called friendlies) now actually seem a bit too awesome. Just had a 12 pirate attack, with an equal number of friendlies. Because they were a spread out multi-attack the friendlies just wiped the first group out instantly, and I helped out them wipe out the other groups with just two shield dudes.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Granite block misses Beauty when-made-of stat - my Masterwork granite plant pot gives 0 beauty (does not have it even listed), same as normal quality one...
About infestations : not too op if one is ready for them. Recently had one (i think 5 or 7 hives) and my team of brave 4 melle, 4 shooting and 1 medic in plate armor (good/excellent) handled it pretty well (without any good weapons ikwas/maces/poor shotguns). also spacing matters
Thats actually a good thing. They don't really come on their own often, maintaining relations is a pain and they do lose relation with you for losing fighters. So they should be a lucky bail out ticket, that happens once in a while. Its a huge improvement over B18, where they sent like 6 fearless dudes to help you againt 100+ pirates.
Quote from: gadjung on July 17, 2018, 04:46:32 PM
About infestations : not too op if one is ready for them. Recently had one (i think 5 or 7 hives) and my team of brave 4 melle, 4 shooting and 1 medic in plate armor (good/excellent) handled it pretty well (without any good weapons ikwas/maces/poor shotguns). also spacing matters
Until you get 15, not 5. Then it stops being not too op.
Gating water mill behind research was a great move. Ironically, the complaints saying it was a bad move likely indicate that it achieved the desired result. They FAR outperformed the other options on landing with their stability... And with proper mill setup, it functionally can remove the desire for geothermal. Gating it behind research adds a meaningful decision as to what you will research first/next/target for power/etc...
The only form I suppose would be stupid is if it was gated in order. I.E. Electricity -> Watermill -> Geo... It's not though, so I digress.
The other "You NEED these skills on crash landed!!!" arguments seem weak. You're not supposed to have a "good" start, you're supposed to have an interesting story. If you do not struggle at all, it's sort of silly. The fact that people are capable of doing Naked Brutality + Extreme + Any storyteller + Random pawn + Ice Sheet/Random start and several achieving modicums of success show that you can pull off some very interesting stuff with creativity.
It would be wonderful to have to carefully choose your starting pawns and be stuck between "do I get a good researcher this time, or a good cook?" for example.
I would even go further and say that we should have a mode that's Permadeath + No pawn rerolls (Super commitment mode!). Choose from what you get. Make our options meaningful.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Eh, that's pretty much what NB is, though, as you can make your starting colonist only so useful and everyone else is random.
Quote from: NotTheMattGuy on July 17, 2018, 04:53:08 PM
You're not supposed to have a "good" start, you're supposed to have an interesting story. If you do not struggle at all, it's sort of silly. The fact that people are capable of doing Naked Brutality + Extreme + Any storyteller + Random pawn + Ice Sheet/Random start and several achieving modicums of success show that you can pull off some very interesting stuff with creativity.
This argument ignores the difference in ability between people who have hundreds of hours in Rimworld, and those who are new to it. too much "struggle" is off-putting to new players, and what the most experienced players are capable of with a little luck, has no bearing on how difficult the "standard" start of the game should be. I haven't personally played with Watermills, because I haven't played on a river map yet in 1.0, so for the specific case of watermills, gating them behind research may be fine, but your argument's generalizations are potentially toxic to new players. The game is plenty punishing enough to new players even if you give them research for solar panels and batteries on day 1.
If an experienced player thinks that the standard starting conditions are too easy or generous to create a fun experience for them, then they can create a custom scenario. That's what the custom scenario editor is there for: to customize a scenario for your enjoyment.
I don't think infestations are that hard to deal with. Had a team of 6 guys handle 5 hives relatively well, one guy got downed (he was Nimble so he was the main tank), 2 guys with significant wounds. In fact only 2 of them had guns, most of the work was done by spears, 300 style.
All in heavy/elephant/rhino leather gear, 4 good spears, a good autopistol and a normal pump shotty. Basically one walked up, got stabbed by 3 spears, died on the first/second hit. They walked through a doorway single file, where their numbers counted for nothing.
Admittedly this is OP spear meta, but still it went very well. And OF COURSE they showed up in the hospital... what is it with bugs and hospitals? Even though it was empty I got 3 infections in the post battle mess cuz the place was covered in dirt and various colors of blood.
Quote from: Tass237 on July 17, 2018, 05:06:13 PM
This argument ignores the difference in ability between people who have hundreds of hours in Rimworld, and those who are new to it.
This argument also ignores difference not only in experience, but also in a playstyle. Not everyone enjoys relieving a dramatic\tragic and interesting story, constantly hanging over an abyss. Some enjoy building and managing a damn colony (it is posed as colony manager) and trying to make it a successful, rich city, with kinds of goods, many people interacting with each and etc.
So save extreme, naked gruesome death for those who want it. Some actually like to have a "decent start", instead of a wreck you have to pull on a hair to drag from a pit of misery and failure.
Quote from: Sirsir on July 17, 2018, 05:23:05 PM
I don't think infestations are that hard to deal with. Had a team of 6 guys handle 5 hives relatively well, one guy got downed (he was Nimble so he was the main tank), 2 guys with significant wounds. In fact only 2 of them had guns, most of the work was done by spears, 300 style.
All in heavy/elephant/rhino leather gear, 4 good spears, a good autopistol and a normal pump shotty. Basically one walked up, got stabbed by 3 spears, died on the first/second hit. They walked through a doorway single file, where their numbers counted for nothing.
Admittedly this is OP spear meta, but still it went very well. And OF COURSE they showed up in the hospital... what is it with bugs and hospitals? Even though it was empty I got 3 infections in the post battle mess cuz the place was covered in dirt and various colors of blood.
As i said, wait for them to spawn 15-20 and have fun dealing with that. And don't worry spear meta as well as 3 on a door gang-up tactic will get their nerf in due time.
Btw i won't be surprised if it turns out, that infestation has its probability increased for rooms that are considered hospitals in its code :P They just looove to crap on those clean white sterile floors.
Well spear nerf will definitely be deserved lol. In my last encounter with centipedes:
1) First killed instantly on first strike
2) Second killed in 4 hits
3) Third killed in 3 hits
Hopefully it will be a nudge rather than a nerf hammer as melee is still risky (well lazy ;))
I don't see anything wrong with 3 dudes in a door though. If you're daring to do infestations without burning/traps/turrets you deserve whatever advantage you can muster.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 17, 2018, 05:27:28 PM
Not everyone enjoys relieving a dramatic\tragic and interesting story, constantly hanging over an abyss. Some enjoy building and managing a damn colony (it is posed as colony manager) and trying to make it a successful, rich city, with kinds of goods, many people interacting with each and etc.
So save extreme, naked gruesome death for those who want it. Some actually like to have a "decent start", instead of a wreck you have to pull on a hair to drag from a pit of misery and failure.
Dude, that's what the lower difficulties are
for. I deliberately chose a scenario beyond Naked Brutality, but played it on Phoebe Medium, and am thriving. I'm not even that good of a player; at best, I'm middlin'. The basic Crashlanded scenario with medium or lower difficulty should still offer basic challenge for those who want to build a big base.
Well, as it is even medium difficulty which should be nowhere near extreme is perfectly capable of breaking your ass without you being a massive derp even. :P And its not really so much about the difficulty, but about starting conditions.
Quote from: fritzgryphon on July 17, 2018, 04:29:18 PM
Wow, the adjustment to difficulty in .1967. The fun points in my save increased by 40% in a week.
Figured I would accept the next chased refugee. Turned out to be 18 enemies (vs my 10) with good guns, 2 Doomsdays and 1 Triple RL (Cass Medium). With some insanity lances, bionic leg kiting and shield belt dancing I beat it. Even if most of my guys, and the refugee, died. My pawns had decent armor and assault rifles, save for 2 who had a bionic eye, arm and leg each, and charge lances.
It was a fun challenge, but it seemed odd to meet a force stronger than your own on medium. I only fought the raid as an experiment; there's no way this would be worth the risk in serious play.
(https://i.imgur.com/LFOP790.png)
edit: And next day, no kidding, a raid of 8 guys with bolt rifles and machine pistols shows up. I have 2 pawns that aren't dead or incap. Fun points is 45 and adaptation is -30.
e. Made them chase me in circles through my base waiting for incap to get up. Repelled the raid and captured one. Yay!
Cue Benny Hill :-)
So far I like the changes to the prisoner recruitment system. All in all I think "easy" prisoners are a bit harder to recruit now while "difficult" (99%) prisoners are bit easier.
It also makes sense to not be able to start recruiting instantly while the guilty-timer is still there. I just don't understand why I also can't release or execute them.
If you remember, I wrote yesterday that I had way too much wood in my arid colony. Now after the changes I get too less. In the last 20 days with the current version, plant regrowth spawned maybe 6 cacti/trees.
I also like that on a new map, rich soil has way more plants than normal soil. Would be nice to have that on ongoing maps with the plant spawning system too. That would feel more natural and consistent.
Is there a (fun) reason why emus have 100% attack change on attack and taim fail? Not even wolfs, bears and thrumbos are that aggressive. On the other side, some animals like elefants could need and increased attack chance. Elefants are currently a free source of a gigantic amount of meat und good leather, even for a single colonist with a bow. I can't remember any time an elefant attacked back.
The current research tab design really encurages to rush microelectronics and multi-analyzer, even more with the streight and clear like without other requirements. I'm currently testing if rushing microelectronics is even worth it, but it sure is tempting.
Maybe a system where these key-researches have a high research cost like now or even a bit higher, but for every research left of them, they get 100 points cheaper. So it is a bit rewarding to keep it slower and research other stuff first.
Even if it is not the best idea to rush better research since you don't have armor/weapons/other stuff, I think many people will try to get it and then feel upset when they get raided by too strong enemies. Sure early faster research is the most optimal, but it has no value if you die.
So if the system keeps like this, maybe a better communication would be helpful, to say that something else might be immidiately more important to survive that to boost later research. It's basicly the usual "good early game vs. faster late game" problem that exists in many other games too.
Loading caravans is really annoying. For some reason, all of the colonists I want loaded into the pods but one do so, and then its just the one loading it up. This was excruciatingly annoying because I had a trade deal I wanted to make that required 38 knives. Took so long, the other two colonists in the pod started starving to death and I almost missed the deal.
dritter: For now, possibly try adding colonists to the pods later on. 1.0 allows you to add or remove things, so that'd probably be a good workaround to the problem; you'll just need to ensure that you leave enough room for them to fit.
Quote from: Lanilor on July 17, 2018, 06:02:17 PM
Is there a (fun) reason why emus have 100% attack change on attack and taim fail? Not even wolfs, bears and thrumbos are that aggressive. On the other side, some animals like elefants could need and increased attack chance.
Have you read Emus description? I suspect Tynan is Australian, or has an Australian friend...
As an Australian who has personally interacted with Emus on 2 separate occasions - Can confirm. Bastard coated bastards with bastard filling.
The only acceptable thing to do near an Emu is attempt to make a belt out of its neck.
Even then if you somehow managed it without being clawed to death the belt would probably become sentient and kill you in your sleep.
Quote from: Lanilor on July 17, 2018, 06:02:17 PM
It also makes sense to not be able to start recruiting instantly while the guilty-timer is still there. I just don't understand why I also can't release or execute them.
I was wondering if this was a bug, too. Apparently you can now only recruit prisoners, not release them.
Quote from: mcduff on July 17, 2018, 07:19:04 PM
Quote from: Lanilor on July 17, 2018, 06:02:17 PM
It also makes sense to not be able to start recruiting instantly while the guilty-timer is still there. I just don't understand why I also can't release or execute them.
I was wondering if this was a bug, too. Apparently you can now only recruit prisoners, not release them.
Yeah, this definitely seems like a bug to me -- if you can't execute them while they are considered guilty, what's the point of the considered guilty feature?
Quote from: Sirsir on July 17, 2018, 06:39:49 PM
Quote from: Lanilor on July 17, 2018, 06:02:17 PM
Is there a (fun) reason why emus have 100% attack change on attack and taim fail? Not even wolfs, bears and thrumbos are that aggressive. On the other side, some animals like elefants could need and increased attack chance.
Have you read Emus description? I suspect Tynan is Australian, or has an Australian friend...
I read it month ago and then forgot it. Well, if it's meant to be fun, it is amusing. I'm just not sure if it's worth the impact on the game. Early hunting is a pain and especially in my current game where I had lots of emus. My colonists had more injuries from emus than from rhinos and that feels a bit weird.
It's not really a big thing in general I guess, just in my current run it was.
----
I haven't used execute in a long time. I don't really see a big use for it. Iirc it gives -3 mood while innocent prisoner died is -4. But if I don't want the prisoner, I just release them. So the only use I see is when he is short before dying and I want to save 1 mood.
Just a quick piece of feedback. Very early on in my current colony (1.0 latest version as of yesterday) when I was barely scraping by day-to-day for food I got a world quest to rescue a downed pawn. Normally I ignore these, especially when I can barely keep my existing colonists alive. Unfortunately however this particular downed pawn was the spouse of my best pawn. So now I had the choice of going out on a rescue quest with my pawns armed with only poor quality shortbows and barely any food in order to rescue another pawn that I don't want or need (another damn mouth to feed!); or accepting my pawn getting sad. I felt I had little choice but to choose the latter. However after the timer ran out I was horrified - my pawn now had a 28 DAY -18 mood buff. That's nearly half a year of mental breaks! Could you please tone down the strength or duration of this mood debuff? We shouldn't be forced to participate in world events, especially so early on.
get storytold :D
but yeah, enjoy the punishment event. Odds are you made the right call anyways - no use risking your entire colony over a probable junkie / pyro / addict
Quote from: bbqftw on July 17, 2018, 08:26:45 PM
get storytold :D
but yeah, enjoy the punishment event. Odds are you made the right call anyways - no use risking your entire colony over a probable junkie / pyro / addict
Punishment is what came later. Two of my pawns including my best doctor simultaneously developed the plague. Of the remaining two, only one could heal but he had more passion than skill. After a couple of days of intense micro and a dwindling of my food and medicine supplies to near exhaustion one of the sick idiots decides to have a mental break and starts wandering around the base. I proceeded to try to arrest him but he goes berserk and ends up getting cut down by my gladius-wielding melee guy while getting shot in the back by the other. So now this moron is cut to shreds as well as 75% progressed in the plague, and of course promptly develops an infection. So now I'm microing another injury. Of course the general state of disrepair causes Mr Misses-His-Spouse to break and start beating up the furniture. Ugh. Looks like I'm going to pull through though, thankfully.
Playing on RR Rough with 245k colony wealth. Got blitzkrieged by Mechanoids, and yet again the melee Scythers and Centipedes are insanely hard to kill. The Centipedes basically shrug off half (or more) of the bullets that hit them, and have a giant health pool, so they just don't die. They also stay out of range of turrets and snipe them with inferno cannons. Scythers die quicker simply because they bumrush our fortifications, but they're shrugging off almost as many bullets. Lancers die comically quick to bullets even though their DPS is obnoxious.
Sharp armor for melee Scythers and Centipedes needs to go down, down, down, bar none.
I hope this becomes interesting...
For the last few days my colonists have been trying to recruit a raider they downed from the "Eaters of Guts" pirate band faction. After taking a look at his social tab he has become fast friends with both of the wardens tending to him(+100, and +93). Thats when I noticed his third social relation: Dan 'Grill' Griliopoulos, Brother, Faction Leader.
Hopefully a fun raid will be coming my way if I pull him to my side.
Eh, this whole new prisoner system is kind of ridiculous.
Pre-1.0: no resistance, extremely low expectations.
current: takes a week before you can even start recruiting, and they're whiny bi%^&es
Main issue is that in the beginning of the game, you're forced to spend time you don't have building a snazzy prison because even the low expectations is going to hurt, and towards the end of the game, prisoners usually start out with about -50 from mind shattering pain, being imprisoned, seeing a bunch of their friends die etc. So it's just a recipe for unstoppable berserk every prisoner. If this hits live, chopping prisoner legs off while be standard practice, not a joke.
There's ways of going around that, but I just think a total reversion of the expectations part is best imo. You're already forced to making a somewhat decent prison just to make the resistance process go quicker, which already feels punishing.
Quote from: NotTheMattGuy on July 17, 2018, 04:53:08 PM
The other "You NEED these skills on crash landed!!!" arguments seem weak. You're not supposed to have a "good" start, you're supposed to have an interesting story. If you do not struggle at all, it's sort of silly. The fact that people are capable of doing Naked Brutality + Extreme + Any storyteller + Random pawn + Ice Sheet/Random start and several achieving modicums of success show that you can pull off some very interesting stuff with creativity.
I know how to play on high difficulty with an unbalanced crew. I can play NB Extreme Random with decent chances to pull it off. But it's not a fun type of struggle. It is boring, tedious and frustrating at the same time. I want to fail due to my own mistakes, not by getting RNGed and not because of deliberately poorly implemented mechanics.
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 17, 2018, 05:43:55 PM
Dude, that's what the lower difficulties are for. I deliberately chose a scenario beyond Naked Brutality, but played it on Phoebe Medium, and am thriving. I'm not even that good of a player; at best, I'm middlin'. The basic Crashlanded scenario with medium or lower difficulty should still offer basic challenge for those who want to build a big base.
This is what lower difficulties should be, not what they are. In fact, unless it is "peaceful," difficulty barely changes gameplay.
user was warned for this post in combination with a pattern of unnecessary hostility in earlier posts. Rule 2
Quote from: Greep on July 17, 2018, 10:35:33 PMEh, this whole new prisoner system is kind of ridiculous.
Pre-1.0: no resistance, extremely low expectations.
current: takes a week before you can even start recruiting, and they're whiny bi%^&es
Main issue is that in the beginning of the game, you're forced to spend time you don't have building a snazzy prison because even the low expectations is going to hurt, and towards the end of the game, prisoners usually start out with about -50 from mind shattering pain, being imprisoned, seeing a bunch of their friends die etc. So it's just a recipe for unstoppable berserk every prisoner. If this hits live, chopping prisoner legs off while be standard practice, not a joke.
There's ways of going around that, but I just think a total reversion of the expectations part is best imo. You're already forced to making a somewhat decent prison just to make the resistance process go quicker, which already feels punishing.
I like the extra character details with prisoners, but I mean at very least all prisoners should start with 'Extremely low expectations' buffs. I don't think anyone gets dumped in a cell and thinks eating without a table is unconscionable.
Why is it a bad thing that you need to invest resources into recruiting prisoners if you want to do that? It makes sense to me.
Early on when the colony is still small you'll be getting drop pods, slavers, and wanderers. So you don't have to. But even so, a 5x5 wooden room with a bed and some furniture gets a room to decent. It's not exactly a massive resource sink.
What I love about Rimworld is that no two players play it the same way. Thanks for keeping it interesting.
Randy rough. I started a crash landed with four chosen from 8. Mods are skylights and memorable aurora. I just wanted to try the aurora one. I started on a flat 40/60 temperate with two roads and a creek. I am in my second winter.
I play frugal so my raids are small. I have 8 colonists. Two others died. One to on infection from a social fight and the other because I forgot that a colonist had grenades during a manhunter event.
I have seen a lot of raids. They happen about every 10 days unless randy is in a mood. It feels like it is much more difficult to build faction relationships than in the visitors mod. As a frugal player I try to keep only what I need on hand to keep my wealth down. I don't always have a lot to trade. The raiders themselves usually come at about equal strength to me. My two best constructors were the ones that died, so defenses are usually impromptu. I focused on the greenhouse, after nearly starving to death the first winter from cold snaps and heat waves. I have noticed that the outlander factions are better geared than the pirates, which makes them more dangerous.
I have a few new game play twists I need to adapt to. The importance of armor means I need to put it on before a fight. However plate armor takes forever and the enemy is often at your gate if they attack immediately. There is a lot of research to get done and armor to make before the difficulty ramps up. Food poisoning is frequent and devestating to food suplies. That is why I almost starved the first winter, everyone puked up the nutrition I could find. Even with metal tiles I have to keep the kitchen almost spotless the whole time my cooks are in there.
I already do that early game and prisoners occasionally go berserk for various reasons.
Right now with moderate expectations my prison barracks is gorgeous with 5 high level statues, lighting, flooring, and comfy beds. And if they get sick from infection which is common for prisoners, they might go berserk. That's just silly.
What if i didn't have an artist? Do I seriously need to buy high end statues to stop berserking prsioners? ::)
And what if I have to move my prisoners due to sappers or something (which happened earlier this game). Instant berserk.
Were meteorites nerfed? I've gotten 6, one was silver, 5 have been stone, and only 2 of those have been a stone that isn't in the map already!
Quote from: Oblitus on July 17, 2018, 10:44:55 PM
Quote from: DariusWolfe on July 17, 2018, 05:43:55 PM
Dude, that's what the lower difficulties are for. I deliberately chose a scenario beyond Naked Brutality, but played it on Phoebe Medium, and am thriving. I'm not even that good of a player; at best, I'm middlin'. The basic Crashlanded scenario with medium or lower difficulty should still offer basic challenge for those who want to build a big base.
This is what lower difficulties should be, not what they are. In fact, unless it is "peaceful," difficulty barely changes gameplay.
<difficulty>0</difficulty>
<threatScale>0.10</threatScale>
<adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero>0</adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero><difficulty>1</difficulty>
<threatScale>0.30</threatScale>
<adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero>0.25</adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero><difficulty>2</difficulty>
<threatScale>0.65</threatScale>
<adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero>0.75</adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero>
<difficulty>3</difficulty>
<threatScale>1</threatScale>
<adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero>1</adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero><difficulty>4</difficulty>
<threatScale>1.5</threatScale>
<adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero>1</adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero><difficulty>5</difficulty>
<threatScale>2</threatScale>
<adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero>1</adaptationGrowthRateFactorOverZero>Yeah you're right. There's virtually no difference between the difficulties.
It's not like on Extreme the raids are 3x larger than on medium before factoring in anything else. No that'd be ridiculous and contrary to the notion that you're being personally persecuted by a game trying to stomp all over your fun.
If you're playing on medium and you're feeling overwhelmed then just lower the difficulty. The game isn't broken if you want to play in a way that the game supports but aren't able to because
you've picked a difficulty that's too high for your playstyle!
And before you get hung up on the notion that the game becomes easier in ways other than raid size and how you don't want that - That's not a particularly hard thing to change. Open the appropriate def file and just edit it.
You yourself already play with mods in 1.0, as insane as that notion is to me. It's the logical equivalent of a baby step.
Good grief.
The way any game depicts its difficulties and the way they're implemented is incredibly complex in of itself - but it's completely overshadowed by the whopping great problem of people being completely incapable of choosing a difficulty that will maximize their enjoyment.
It's a ridiculously complex sociological and psychological clusterfuck and I can't imagine trying to solve it without dashing my head against a passing truck.
Imagine being a zookeeper, watching someone jump into a piranha tank and stick their head into a lion's mouth simultaneously - And when you tell that person that they might enjoy their zoo experience more if they removed their head from the lion you hear a muffled " But that won't stop my feet hurting ".
I'd describe myself as a Cynic but it's hard when people literally
can't act in their own self interest :P
----
Quote from: Greep on July 17, 2018, 11:36:36 PM
I already do that early game and prisoners occasionally go berserk for various reasons.
Right now with moderate expectations my prison barracks is gorgeous with 5 high level statues, lighting, flooring, and comfy beds. And if they get sick from infection which is common for prisoners, they might go berserk. That's just silly.
What if i didn't have an artist? Do I seriously need to buy high end statues to stop berserking prsioners? ::)
And what if I have to move my prisoners due to sappers or something (which happened earlier this game). Instant berserk.
That's... not quite the experience I'm having with prisoners. - I usually just convert a bedroom into a prison whenever it's required these days as dedicated prisons are often unnecessary and well... this is the result
https://imgur.com/a/KxtQmTh
That jackass just tried to escape with a brawler in the room while he's got muscle parasites but.. pain aside he's perfectly happy in that cell.
I think "Instant Berserk" might be overselling it a bit.
Eh, your dude had 2 rivals die and no friends die. If that was the other way around you're looking at regular berserking. And if his wife/husband died in battle or if he's got negative traits? You're gonna have fun. This really just doesn't feel right.
I'm getting a weird bug now where my colonists are going to haul random forbidden rotting corpses to put in a stockpile that forbids rotting corpses. They are going right into a freaking bug cave to get them and there is no way for me to stop them from going in there except putting it into a disallowed zone.
Quote from: Greep on July 18, 2018, 12:02:26 AM
Eh, your dude had 2 rivals die and no friends die. If that was the other way around you're looking at regular berserking. And if his wife/husband died in battle or if he's got negative traits? You're gonna have fun. This really just doesn't feel right.
Did you actually look at the numbers associated with those effects? +8 for 4 days as a result of rivals dying.
Here.. Just.. look at this. Cleared his wounds and parasites and gave him a -10.
https://imgur.com/a/hL0CuqA
And he's still -12 from being hungry!
Being imprisoned is -5..
five.
That's the only difference between a colonist and a prisoner. Five mood.
If they've got negative traits then.. okay.. but they're going to have those traits when you recruit them anyway.
I could even move that guy into a cell that's close enough to my psychic emanator.. but I'm not.. because it's totally unnecessary.
You're making it out like prisoners are unmanageable balls of nerves who'll crack at any moment but.. the reality is that they're almost indistinguishable from standard pawns.
Frankly I'd argue that they're pretty easy to keep sane given that they spend all their time in
one room which you can decorate to the rafters if you so choose.
Bang a prisoner in a room with enough beauty to hit max and that's +15 mood
all the time.
Edit: actually you know what to save time here's an example of how bad it needs to be if your prisoner is in a high quality prison : https://imgur.com/a/7pmM3fw
-40 and he's still not going to break.
Eh, not worth arguing, made my point and I doubt it's staying so I'd just be cluttering the thread at this point.
Well.. it's certainly an improvement when compared to cluttering up the thread by lying about "-50 mind shattering pain"
You might as well have said "I don't like tennis balls because they were invented by Ghandi!" and when you were presented with evidence to the contrary your response was " Well it's not worth arguing about because I've made my point and tennis balls aren't long for this world!"
Dunno about you but I prefer my opinions to be at least loosely based on reality :P
user was warned for this post
Edit: Fair enough.
Glad to see the back-and-forths are ending.
Generally a lot more productive just to respond to the build as you experienced it, rather than responding why another user is wrong. I'd like to keep the back-and-forth to a minimum here, please just write your observations/experiences and think twice before commenting against another user's perspective.
Internet arguments: The only winning move is not to play.
Hello everyone!
Played yesterday's build for about an hour, three things I noticed:
1. cloth armor had some re-balancing, almost everyone was in tattered apparel.
2. was something done with the graphics? It seemed a bit sharper (or did I finally sober-up from the World Championship and I see clearly now? :) )
3. fires, fires everywhere... in 2 weeks I had 2 Dry thunderstorms and my entire map was burning at one moment, to the point where the game started lagging a bit. Almost fried a friendly caravan arriving. I've seen fires from dry thunderstorms before, but nothing like this. I didn't screenshot, but if it happens today also, I'll post a pic.
Also, fun thing happened. I got a "Siege" warning. My base is placed near the left end of the map, which is also the side from which the siege-people were arriving. I instantly drafted all of my pawns (14) and rammed them into the arriving siege. Killed them on entry, before they even managed to set-up, only 4 of my pawns got minor damages. :)
Quote from: anitram on July 18, 2018, 01:15:33 AM
3. fires, fires everywhere... in 2 weeks I had 2 Dry thunderstorms and my entire map was burning at one moment, to the point where the game started lagging a bit. Almost fried a friendly caravan arriving. I've seen fires from dry thunderstorms before, but nothing like this. I didn't screenshot, but if it happens today also, I'll post a pic.
Fires sneak up on me in 1.0. lol They usually don't become this huge wildfire like previous versions, so they are easier to manage IMO. I tend to underestimate them and shrug off hoping they burn out by itself but what happens sometimes is that this small patch of fire will slowly spread to other areas for the next day or two. Anyways, firefighting is not as bad as previous version IMO.
The rain doesn't always put them out, but prevents them from spreading. (intended?)
I want to add this bit cause I don't recall people talking about it.
You can trigger firefoam poppers over your crop to prevent fires.
Delete the home zone so the pawns never clean it up.
Raider often try to set fire to your crop, but if the field is covered in foam
they'll most likely stick around trying to set it on fire.
I guess it's cheese not worth fixing, but maybe improvements to AI could be made there.
Btw takes too long to clean up firefoam in this update.
Caravan annoyances are particularly noticeable when you have single entrances. In this case they were leaving right as a tribal force was coming in. I lost 3 faction for death of a pack animal, and got back all of my flake trade goods which I can donate for about 100 faction, so not exactly a loss lol.
As much as it's "unimmersive" maybe it's time trade caravans just have invisible trade goods. How many times have changes to caravans/faction been made to avoid exploits?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on July 18, 2018, 03:20:16 AM
As much as it's "unimmersive" maybe it's time trade caravans just have invisible trade goods. How many times have changes to caravans/faction been made to avoid exploits?
Beacon hats FTW. Tribals tho. Wait, who trades with tribals?
Tribals do have wood at least usually ;D
On the topic of 'friendly chat':
I really liked this option too, for training social or waiting out a withdrawal or if I don't want to recruit that pawn yet, but maybe later and it served roleplaying-feeling IMO.
Didn't ever confuse me,even when I started playing, in case some new players really don't know what to do it, you could add a tooltip when hovering over it stating that it will train social skills a little and maybe prepare them for later recruitment. If there wasn't one like this, haven't checked in a long time..
Regarding caravanning with multiple pawns:
I don't know if I got unlucky but I sent a couple out on a journey and in three days they didn't do any social interaction with each other. If this is intended I'd like to have it changed.
Would be really nice if there could be more social interaction and maybe even people becoming lovers during a journey.
And for those sneaky one-man trips variances for recreation would be really welcome so that they don't get bored so fast alone out there, my teetotaler is always recreation starved when arriving at home.
In regards to healer mech serums: maybe there are differences between the storytellers but on phoebe 'hard' after about 8 years I got 12 in total I think, used some and have 9 left in storage. Some tribes people wanted 13 incendiary launchers and gave me 4 in exchange plus a masterwork power armor helmet so I can't complain. I'm preparing for the ship launch,stacking up food and meds/drugs and bionics right now and I guess the serums will come in handy.
The ship building feels a lot like a grind for advanced components, which isn't bad in itself but I'd like outlander towns to have them for sale as well. Maybe I was just unlucky but I sent a pawn for shopping with an elephant and a dromedary because I also needed plasteel and he returned with 140 plasteel and, because they didn't have any other useful things for me, 40 ordinary components and a stack of neutroamine so the trip wasn't utterly useless but I'd like to see more plasteel for sale and at least 1 adv. Component.
My one good crafter didn't mind standing at the fabrication bench for roughly two whole weeks though and some mechanoids had the decency to show up and spend some plasteel for the greater good ;-)
Regarding trqders: I think they should scale with time/wealth so they bring a little more than 800 silver in the late game.
Would also be nice but I guess a lot more complicated to programme if they remembered what you bought a lot of in the past and bring more of it and also more in general the more you traded with them in the past, probably up to a specific point.. Or a mechanic where you can order stuff for maybe double the price then but getting guaranteed that they bring at least some of it with them.
I had a trade caravan in front of my base when I triggered a poison ship and, like I planned, they started fighting the mechanoids and in the very same moment another trade caravan arrived and also joined the fighting. Almost all of them died but three I managed to rescue and I experienced no relation drop because of the deaths which I liked because...well I did not harm them ^^
Beforehand one of the traders killed their own muffalo with a grenade while fighting a mad chinchilla, maybe they should be a little more cautious regarding friendly fire with explosives. I liked the free adv. Components of course ;-)
Edit: appears to me, that I'm sounding more negative and just like 'I want, I want, I want' than intended so I have to say there are so much changes in 1.0 that I love, too much to mention them all, a few that come to my mind now:
-wildlife tab
-traders tending themselves
-crafting bionics
-melee being levelling up at good paste and being really worthwhile (in the past I never used it and now I really enjoy it)
-social interaction descriptions
-that deep talks add different amounts of relation pluses depending on the pawn participating in it (don't know if that's actually new but I only yet recognised)
-the new armor system
-threat levels for caravans
-caravanning as a whole (bedrolls, convenience features when forming one, rewards,...)
-Implementation of a mod-detector when loading a game and the possibility to load the mod order from the save
-...
I have over 500 hours in this game and just learned that "antigrain warheads" are actually antimatter warheads that are just big explosives rather than special anti-crop weapons.
It seems I am not the only one to make this mistake. What a confusing name.
Quote from: YokoZar on July 18, 2018, 04:13:59 AM
I have over 500 hours in this game and just learned that "antigrain warheads" are actually antimatter warheads that are just big explosives rather than special anti-crop weapons.
It seems I am not the only one to make this mistake. What a confusing name.
No WONDER they're so expensive!
Hey Tynan I've noticed that the "Make Stone Blocks" Bill doesn't have a skill slider for "Any Worker" like most the others do with the new UI.
I used to be able to set a skill cap so that more skilled crafters would work elsewhere....
Yeah, as couple people mentioned, i also dislike new recruiting system a lot. It already could take up to decades depending on how good your diplomat was with 0.5% chances per attempt. Now you waste a week before recruiting even starts, because you need to break this new resistance first. And this means even more chance for him to break, to try escaping and etc.
And while you are at it, a prisoner (not a guest, a visitor or a foreign ambassador you need to suck up to) has moderate expectations and gets pissy like regular inhabitant of your town about things like having to share a room with two other pissy a'holes that were lucky enough i didn't finish them off. Or about - oh dear! - a missing table one of them destoyed during his previous tantrum. I wonder if those prisoners actually think they are on vacation in a sanatorium or something? Sure doesn't look like they're in prison.
I really hope that this change will be revised. For now it just seems like another attempt to force players to rely on crappy refugees, cause with each patch recruiting raiders becomes worse and worse. In any case, I hope I can find and disable this as i feel its unneeded.
I had a weird behavior on an item stach quest: The system said 3 turrets are guarding it, when I arrived I saw 1 turret, 1 mortar and 1 enemy pawn. After killing the pawn and deactivating the turret, there was the usual "all enemies defeated message". Now a few ingame hours later I got a "enemies are startign their assult" message and was confused. There still was a turret and an enemy pawn hiding between the stash building and a mountain in fog of war and he now started to dig out and attacked me.
TL;DR: When enemies are hidden in fog of war on an item stash, they don't cound towards the "all enemies defeated message".
I still have a save of this, if you want one.
If one of my colonists gets captured, I expect them to get a golden bed in a jade tile room, and nothing but lavish meals.
Okay this is just silly, this iguana masterfully zig-zagged through the entire trap corridor so it could go eat my corn crops :o
[attachment deleted due to age]
[Start]
I wanted to make a more detailed report. In order to do this, I saved the save file of every raid from start to ending separately. And I recorded the number of raids, World Map events, wealth, and colonist number in Excel.
You can look at the number to find the save file for that raid. A total of 85 save files.
Spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17j_7w4jNB0MwfIvSMiPUf3m1XbleG2MeD42M0kw2nLI/edit?usp=sharing
Savefile:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezmpkm3cxpmat2k/save%20file.zip?dl=0
[Game information]
-Cassandra
-Extreme
-The permade was on, but it was a mistake.
-mod uses numbers and allowtool, and ignoring it is not a problem.
[From the play experience]
- The devil strand has a flame resistance of 100%, but it does not get damaged and it does not prevent the burning. It is necessary to prevent burning.
-The temperature control ability of the armor is too low. It was so cold on this map that I could not test it. I do not want to put a cloth on my armor, but I want to use other leather. I want to wear armor that is strong against temperature by using hair. And get rid of the move to armor. Movement power does not greatly affect the combat but has a great effect on the actual working efficiency. I carry material to make something, go to sleep and eat. It really affects the movement very much. Caravan is also the same. If you want to wear armor, increase the strength of armor. Not a penalty.
https://i.imgur.com/L3W41ik.png
-I make a construction order with a shift when I make a grave. But it only has a square border and does not dig a grave. I would like to be made immediately if I order the construction of the grave as a shift.
-The repair was inconvenient compared to the last time. I wish I was an independent item like before.(maybe A15?) I think integration is sometimes a bad case. Separating as before is good in every way. The developer knows what they want to integrate into the construction, but there is a problem. Separation is a benefit for everyone. Newbies and Experts.
https://i.imgur.com/wVRK83D.png
-How can I save that dog? Give the animal a master first. Then turn on the follow while the master is drafted. I then draft the master. Then uncheck follow. The animal will eventually move to the assigned area immediately. What a stupid process! Return it to B18. When drafting a master, the animal immediately moved to the assigned area! This must be recovered to its previous state.
-Manhunter pack is strange to work. In response to the pawn that opens the door at a very distance (opposite the base), the animals attack the door close to them.
-I've seen patch notes that I use bedroll, but it would be nice to have something visible that I'm using while world map traveling. For example, the icons are in use.
-Silver is used for money. But it is too ugly. How about making more ingots? I do not like it anyway.
https://i.imgur.com/Bpr1ci7.png
-At 1.0, animals and human zones were integrated. It is a wrong decision. I set up areas to prevent dogs from accessing the drug room. I use drugs a lot and it is a necessary operation. Integration has made it more difficult to see. If not, let me see what I want to see check setting. It is an integrated decision that did not think about drugs.
-The latter game breakdown occurs too often. Especially, if you include automatic doors, heaters, etc., there are huge parts usage equipments. The event should give the minimum frequency of occurrence.
-I would like to have the aura event accumulate like a party event. Accumulate if you watch.
-Artwork is too lacking in material for sale. I tried to make and sell artworks with wood, but it was too hard to get the volume because it was too small number. Especially after the toxic fallout, it was hard to find trees in desperation. Even though it is a breal forest!
-I hope that the faction base's item renewal cycle is displayed in the town information.It is disappointing if you have difficulty moving and the village items have not changed.
-The outdoor stat was consumed very quickly. The penalty is big and really hard to keep.
-steel LMR is useless. It's too heavy to carry a murfalo, so it's hard to bring it. I know there are people who like it, but there is no real utility. 150kg = 300 steel. But the weight of mufalo is about 75kg. The transport pod is also inefficient. I want to ask how he uses it.
-The ammunition of the turret made it difficult to use the turret on a large number. Ammo consumption is high. But except for the sniper turret, I think it is an appropriate balance. Beyond the mid-game, the supply of steel is very scarce. It was very useful for the electric smelter to dissolve the slag. It was very interesting that the supply line diversified.
-There is very little I can do with 1 ~ 7 craft stat training. Keep making meaningless clothes. I would like to be able to do production training in more places.
-If there are a lot of enemies, there are cases where they steal weapons dropped when they die. The raid ends so easily.
https://i.imgur.com/8PXNA6c.png
-Trap spam is OP.
https://i.imgur.com/hEqluyS.png
-While the flash was hitting the melee, centipede made ranged attacks. I will try to reproduce the possibility more.
https://i.imgur.com/7He54s4.png
-The number UI in silver is hard to see.
https://i.imgur.com/lJQV1bU.png
-5 vs 10 . Why I do not get World Map events. You must fight in the plains. Without any help.
https://i.imgur.com/iUfpAuD.png
-Could I have a little steel? ambush. 1 vs 12 . I think there is a problem with the amount of ambush regardless of caravan size.
https://i.imgur.com/NADMbWA.png
-If you keep a lot of animals, UI is not good at present. The animal window UI should be improved.
-It is a pity that the friendly conversation has disappeared. I trained socializing. And tormented. The bad guy!
-The smoke belt is useful to the enemy, but it is difficult for the colonist to utilize. I hope it can be recharged.
New build!
Of note in this build is the translation cleaner tool. This tool updates translation files and inserts the English data for reference. It'll make translating much, much simpler. Translators, please use it! It's on the main menu when a non-English language is selected.
Raw changelog is below. As always, the changelog is here for reference, but posts in this thread should please revolve around play experiences and ideally state the storyteller/difficulty and include screenshots of the "debug" history graphs.
Still lots to do!
---
Reduce death-on-downed chance.
Tune up quest rewards slightly.
Adjusted population/storyteller tunings.
Spear rework. Reduces its damage, gave it special armor penetration, recoded how stab damage interacts with internal organs (it no longer specifically targets organs unless you hit some external part that contains those organs). Adjusted mechanoid melee attack tools.
Fix: GrammarRequest.includesBare not cleared in Clear()
If non-English language is selected and GrammarResolver fails to resolve a text, we now try again with English rules.
Mechanoids now have some internal body parts and capacities to go with them.
Refined and condensed social ability-related stats.
Tuned health and coverage of some body parts.
Adjust probability of talk topics.
Scale down stone chunk art to 64 pixels.
Misc adjustments: -Reduced minimum adaptation factor. -Removed imprisoned mood debuff thought. -Rewrite armor rating description to be clearer. -Corpses deteriorate slower. -Overlapped watermill power 50% -> 30%. -Mortar min range now ends in .9 so the circle looks nicer. -Flak jacket now insulates like a cloth jacket. -Adjust prisoner resistance. -Adjust mental break chance per time. -Default auto rearm traps to on. -Rename Char ITab to Story.
Adjust animals' manhunter chances and speed.
Removed unnecessary SelectLanguage() from TranslationFilesCleaner.
Fixed minor translation files cleaner issue.
Enabled the "cleanup translation files" button.
Made NormalizedHandle() use white-listed characters instead of black-listed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now keeps comments in full-list injections.
TranslationFilesCleaner now also handles backstories.
Translation placeholders now use TODO symbol instead of an empty string.
Updated the "cleanup translation files" dialog text.
Fix: No missing def injections are detected if no injections of that def are defined.
TranslationFilesCleaner improvements - it now handles full-list injections correctly. Fixed some translation issues.
(note this is on the previous build so maybe my poor colonists would have fared better if I'd waited an hour to play)
Day 57, Winter just ended but the Volcanic winter made things really rough. I'm playing Cassandra Medium and so far have been barely making it in this desert 49.5 degrees north (randomly chosen, as were the colonists).
I've been scraping by waiting for the growing season. My colony is worth 24,000. Not sure how that stacks up but I think it's insanely low for nearing the end of year 1.
So I get a refugee being chased. No problem, right? At this level she'll have 1, maybe 2 people after her and they'll probably have knives or something.
Nope. 5 ranged, all normal. I don't remember exactly what they had but at least 2 were automatic weapons. My 5 (now 6) colonists had 3 ranged weapons between them, the 2 starter weapons and a pistol we picked up from a guy rotting in jail. So we lined up, gave Sugar a club (it was that or one of the 3 poor knives we'd gotten from earlier raids), and stood to defend our garbage little town.
We were decimated. By the time the bandits decided to pick up Sugar and run away, all but one of our colonists was downed.
I turned on Debug to check and my Adaptation is somewhere around lucky number 13. "Fun points" (whatever that is) was at 14 when the fight started and fell to 12.38 for the colony now that the raid is over. My own fun points dropped from about 1 to -38.
---
continued
---
While my one last colonist was dragging the 2nd of the 4 downed colonists to medical beds (I prioritized the two who were going to die last and gave up on the other 2 as too far gone) ANOTHER raid came in. This one only had one person, but that guy managed a strikingly great shot to my last colonist's LEFT MIDDLE TOE that took her down.
And that's it. Everybody's bleeding out and the lone raider is currently lighting my wind turbines on fire.
I guess that's what I get for playing on hardcore medium mode.
Heh, there goes spear meta :P
And yuup, don't look down on medium.
The increased revenge chance on elephants is very noticable and a plan B for dealing with an enraged elephant horde is definitely required. Out of two hunting attempts, both resulted in an enraged horde. Maybe this was just bad luck but it seems that the chance of this happening increased as well. When going big game hunting, multiple layers of doors, preferably of something more durable than wood are recommended. On the other hand, when an entire horde comes knocking on the door, one can easily generate several thousand silver worth in goods (counting meat, leather, tusks).
i still get caravans that only stop way outside my base borders to trade...
sometimes they even go through one entrance, pass my base just to position themselves the other entrance....
its annoying
Maybe prisoners should prefer being housed together rather than in solitary. Within reason at least. Maybe take the room size and divide it by the number of prisoners. Then they can complain if your cells are too crowded. But putting two people into a standard room should be fine. That way they have someone to talk to who is like them. Unless you put two people together who hate each other. Then it could be better to separate them.
Quote from: Polder on July 18, 2018, 08:08:09 AM
The increased revenge chance on elephants is very noticable and a plan B for dealing with an enraged elephant horde is definitely required. Out of two hunting attempts, both resulted in an enraged horde. Maybe this was just bad luck but it seems that the chance of this happening increased as well. When going big game hunting, multiple layers of doors, preferably of something more durable than wood are recommended. On the other hand, when an entire horde comes knocking on the door, one can easily generate several thousand silver worth in goods (counting meat, leather, tusks).
Glad to hear this. On my earlier arid playthrough elephant tusks were far too easy a source of wealth.
I wish death-on-downed chance didn't occur at all for raiders that were related to colonists. When I get 2 raiders that are related to the same person, even if I treat them with kid gloves I have zero control on if that colonist is about to have -18 mood for the next half a year...
Quote from: Sirsir on July 18, 2018, 10:16:47 AM
I wish death-on-downed chance didn't occur at all for raiders that were related to colonists.
Keep a psychic lance stored, use it on him, trade-off a ~60% chance of death for a ~5-10% chance of permanent brain damage.
Data from play. Cassandra, Rough, Temperate Forest, Crashlanded, on builds 1964 and 1966
Wealth Graph:
https://i.imgur.com/GyS7NVX.png (https://i.imgur.com/GyS7NVX.png)
Population Graph:
https://i.imgur.com/HFQBOCg.png (https://i.imgur.com/HFQBOCg.png)
Mood Graph:
https://i.imgur.com/R2a2qHp.png (https://i.imgur.com/R2a2qHp.png)
Debug Graph:
https://i.imgur.com/WCoo4Fp.png (https://i.imgur.com/WCoo4Fp.png)
That precipitous decline near the end of the adaptation graph is from a siege in which most of my pawns ended up downed. (all but 2 downed in fighting, one of those two anesthetized from surgery prior to siege)
When I loaded the game after build 1966 update, I had a prisoner from before the uupdate. That prisoner was labelled as havign Resistance -1, but it didn't seem to break anything. The recruit attempts went from ~1.5-2.2% chance before the update, to ~18-23% chance after the update. I like that it makes prisoners less variable to recruit, but also keeps them from instantly recruiting.
I like that emus are horrible, aggressive jerks. It adds flavor to the game, and since emus are solitary, not in herds, it won't ever be as dangerous as a herd of (for example) ibex going manhunter together.
Rimworld gave me a bait and switch! My starting colonists did not include a great cook, and I got an Incapacitated Refugee quest for someone with the "Chef" class, so I decided to risk it. When I got there it turned out their backstory was "Fearful Chef", and made them incapable of cooking! Needless to say, I found this hilarious, and the pawn is now a full-time hauler-cleaner. ;D
As a side note, I have some insight into (and feel protective towards) the concerns of more newbie/casual Rimworld players, as my wife plays Rimworld occasionally. She prefers Phoebe Base Builder (she has chosen not to play on the unstable branch), and sometimes runs into issues/confusion I would never have considered due to familiarity with the game.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on July 17, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
*LOL*
A desperate Alpaca just self tamed after my Hunter nearly killed it with his first shot.
HAH! Amazing. Thank you for sharing -- made my day :D
RIP SPEAR
Anyway I tried to do some (unscientific testing) on mechs with plasteel weapons ranging from normal to excellent, level 9 melee pawn with no health issues.
On spears: still the best weapon for scythers. It doesn't one shot kill them anymore but a level 9 pawn in power armor (good) gets the job done. Terrible against centipedes, I pitted him against 5 centipedes (one by one, reloading each save) and he fails at all of them.
On maces: not as good on scythers as spears are but the superior weapon against centipedes. Took 4 hours for my pawn to actually down it by himself. I kinda gave up when I realise it still takes just as long for the second one.
Obviously one shouldn't bum rush a mechanoid by themselves but I fear this will make drop pod mech raids a bigger challenge than before considering their ability to burn all my furniture and the scyther's nasty blades.
I've posted this to the Suggestions forums, before but, this never gets implemented. Something missing from Rimworld that absolutely must make it into 1.0: Let us map a darned key to the "Randomize" character select screen button. It's simple and would save some sanity for those of us playing higher difficulties, in which it's been admitted that some level of "no room for error" exists.
Also, a hotkey to bring up the 'I' informational panels. Thanks.
So I've been playing on Cass extreme and up until now haven't had to reload when the colony died.... I had a poison ship crashed so it was handy I could test to see how bad the spear nerf was. At this point my raids are really nasty, it's usually something like a dozen or more scyther and lancers and 4-6 centipedes.
And yea, it didn't go well. I've refought the battle a few times and I can't even get an outcome that's close to winning. I could understand if I had gone all in on spears, but I really didn't. I have 6 ranged fighters (4 with pulse rifles, 1 with a legendary LMG) and 3 melee, one of which has 50% brain damage. I feel like that's pretty solid but shooting at centipedes is just futile. It takes so much to just bring one down, while an inferno cannon mech is just going to hit a colonist once, panic them into the open and then that colonist is down or dead.
Now, that said, I don't think spears shouldn't have been nerfed. They should have. But I think spears being OP gave us a very easy way to destroy mechs trivially and as a result, mechs in their current state are overtuned.
I really don't want to go back to the old days of being forced to sniper rifle kite centipedes around the map for half an hour but at this point I'm not really sure what other tactic actually works. I've got 9 fighters all equipped with spears, pulse rifles, and EMP grenades and I can't make a dent in centipedes before they adapt and destroy me. They're even winning in melee against my spear users!
So yea, I'm reloading and trying new tactics, will report if I find anything that works consistently.
I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but the new 1.0 'opportunity hauling' consistently ignores zone restrictions. For example, upon undrafting, pawn will leave safehouse to haul weapons of downed enemies even though the weapon is outside of his allowed zone. Is this a bug or is it intended?
I have to say the new translation clean-up tool is such a cool feature.
This makes the translation work much, much easier. Thank you very much for this ;D
There is a text error in the pawn social tab when flirting. The a name and pronoun are inserted wrong:
Jerry tried to flirt with Jerry by complimenting his plant growing skills. Sakura turned her back.
Just for fun, I decided to take a look at how many shots it took for my guys with excellent pulse rifles to down a single centipede.
41. It took 41 shots, and that's only counting the ones that hit and weren't completely deflected.
Urgh. I think I'm done bashing my head against this problem for now. I'm going to have to build a giant trap maze again. Sigh...
the animal training stuff about masters is still there I posted about earlier, but I noticed something else quite... fascinating.
I had a scyther scything my dude (like they do) and noticed him go down. I look at his wounds and notice. His Waist has been cut off. He is still alive, still would be functional in all categories if not for accumulated pain. First time I've seen a hit to waist. and only ~10 hp there?
anyways I'd expect if somenone was cut at the waist they'd be dead or lose both legs or something similar and bleed extremely profusely since he was at max bleeding at a same rate as a cut off limb.
This ar 1967 version
I find the animal revenge chance changes heavily impact the usefulness of hunting as food source in the early game (in tropical swamps at least) and think this widens the gap between growing and hunting further, while the original intent was presumably to make hunting elephants less profitable (their value had a lot to do with selling the meat in additional to the leather and tusks).
I'm not a huge fan of the "shoot centipede with survival rifle for 24 hrs to kill it" mini-game, either. Lancers take 2 hits with a rifle. Scyther's need some armor so they can tank shots to get in range/be dangerous, but 5-6 seems reasonable. Centipedes should be up to no more than 20 good hits.
As for hunting, it's really not bothering me. Even my tribals were mostly able to take out Rhino and Elephant using Recurves without aggro. As of build 1955 or so anyway. Crashlanders with survival rifle only have to be wary of Thrumbo.
I recently became aware of the 1.0 unstable build and this discussion and I hope I can provide some constructive feedback. I'm not a power-player. I do tweak my starting crew to avoid anything seriously annoying like dumb labor or starting fires but I pretty much let it play out from there.
I've been fortunate in my current play thru that it's not been too difficult, or too easy or too random and also I'm glad I don't have any bugs to report. I think you're heading in the right direction overall with the balance and quality of life improvements.
But since this is the internet, I believe I am required to give my opinions, so for my first post I will offer three things:
#1 I agree with those who would like at least the option to not see the stats of the pawns you don't control.
#2 My biggest pet peeve is when someone is out in the field harvesting some resource and then fails to bring anything back with then to the storage when they decide it's time to switch tasks.
#3 Speaking as someone who is color blind, please add some contrast to Research Progress meter.
Keep up the good work!
I had a compacted steel meteorite land within 5 tiles of my colony.
Its a mountain base and it landed on an odd outcropping of Overhead Mountain being held up by a single granite stone wall. The wall became completely surrounded by the meteorite despite the Overhead Mountain it was holding up.
The meteorite did not replace the wall, shouldn't it have also not fallen on the tiles covered by Overhead Mountain?
[attachment deleted due to age]
A minor thing that has occurred to me - shouldn't parkas have a negative impact on heat tolerance? If I'm wearing an alpaca wool parka that insulates me down to -50 degrees, it makes sense that this would make me too hot in a lot of situations, but quite often the heat range ends up being something like -48 to 24 degrees or something, which feels like a big ol range and means your colonists end up wearing parkas into the summer.
Other observations unrelated to centipede bullet sponges and mechnoid death:
I got a brewery online once my pawns got into high expectations. I set a rule of 1 beer per day, but I noticed their tolerances were building, so I bumped it to 1 beer every 2 days. Still, my doctor managed to become addicted. I checked the wiki and it turns out you can only have one beer every 2.13 days to have no chance at addiction. This seems really, really silly to me. Smokeleaf is actually less addictive than beer! I feel like you should be able to have 1 beer a day without getting addicted. With the new recreation system you really start to need chemicals late game and it's ridiculous my colonists can't have 1 beer a day without being drug addicts.
Things get weird when you have a lot of pawns in confined spaces. Sometimes enemy units can 'push' your units back. What I think is happening is pawns can occupy the same space when moving, but not when they stop. So the enemy, let's say a herd of man-eating Emus targets someone behind your wall. The emu's hit your melee standing in a doorway and they pile up. Since they're blocked they then stop, which creates like 6 emus on the same tile. The game adjust by moving them all to their own space, resulting in the melee holding the door being bumped back and Emu's flooding into your base. That sucks, because Emus are dicks.
It's also possible to have this push effect push one of your pawns onto a door and open it, and it can make melee pawns unresponsive and cause them to rubber band back and forth.
Sometimes when you order a pawn to shoot something and the target enters melee range, they just stand there and don't melee back until you specifically order them to.
I gave this as feedback before but I'll say it again: Make healing mech serums more common, or give other ways to heal brain damage and scars. Maybe something that uses glitterworld meds?
I like that the long range mineral scanner now requires someone with intellect to man it. Finally a use for intellect pawns and a way to train intellect after you've done all your research. Great change. What I dislike is there doesn't appear to be any feedback to the player that manning it is doing anything. Some type of progress bar, even something without perfect information like "Wideband scans -> Triangulating Signatures -> Narrowing down location -> Pin-pointing location" would make it more obvious and give the player a clue how close they are to the next lump. Oh, and uh, it looks like the interaction spot is behind it instead of in front of it.
Also, I think you should be allowed to have multiple scanners running. If you want to devote multiple people to running them, why not? You still need to travel out to the lumps, mine them, and transport the ore back, I don't think it would be that overpowered. Maybe a stacking penalty so 2 aren't twice as good, but 2 is still better than 1.
Is there any good reason why a ground penetrating mineral scanner can't tell you what type of minerals are there? Previously drills couldn't be reinstalled so there was a cost associated with discovering that information. Now that you can move them, there doesn't seem to be any reason for that information not to be available. It just forces you to waste time relocating the drill everywhere until you find what you want.
Every single playthrough I get at least one pawn who gets a plague while on a caravan, and I noticed there is a dev button to plague a caravan member. So this is a specific event, not related to normal disease chance? If so, it feels like kind of a dick move, and heavily discourages caravaning in the early game because plague is deadly enough while in your base early on, while on the road it's often just going to be a death sentence for that pawn. It's already incredibly dangerous to the point where I rarely do it for anything but trade requests until I have drop pods which allow me to quickly support my caravans when needed.
I'd really like to be able to set up a camp and generate a small map, similar to the 'set up camp' mod. This would allow me to micromanage my pawns better, as well as let me drop pod in materials for the pawn to build a drop pod launcher and launch themselves back home. You can already do this, but you need to create a permanent settlement and then abandon it afterward which feels really clunky.
I often don't notice when a caravan has reached a friendly settlement. Could that be an actual note that pops up instead of just a message? And maybe add a "Caravan Paused" notice in the bottom right like the tattered apparel or low food notices when you have a caravan not moving.
Floors are boring. If you have natural stone, you smooth it because natural stone is better in every way to every other type of flooring. If it's a kitchen/hospital/lab you use sterile. Concrete on anything you just want to avoid dirty with and don't care about beauty. Otherwise, you do stone tile once you can afford it, wood until then. It's never an interesting choice. Carpet is worthless because it's equal to stone with the downside of being flammable and locked behind a research. And does anyone use flagstone, ever?
Packaged survival meals just seem inferior to pemmican. They take a long time to produce and are very inefficient in terms of nutrition, both due to the extra materials required and the fact that pemmican breaks down into smaller units, which prevents waste. Considering survival meals are higher in tech I feel like they should be objectively superior to pemmican and they really aren't.
It would be nice if packaged survival meals and pemmican were not eaten when you have other perishable meals available. You can forbid them but I use the unforbid all tools frequently and have to keep remembering to reforbid them, which is annoying. I even caught a pawn feeding a packaged survival meal to a muffalo.
It would be nice if animals defaulted to not following the tamer around after obedience training. Unless it's a combat animal, that's not something you want, and it's really annoying to have to constantly shoo away my muffalo and boomalopes from battles.
The random high -36 psychic drones feel really unfair. In practice it's just a 'Half your colony mental breaks!" event, but it can create some stuff that really feels awful and like you had no control over it. Short of having psychic helmets on hand for half your colony at all times, but I'm not sure that's something that should be required.
I like that more weapons are viable in different situations. The problem is that knowing which weapons are good in which situation doesn't do you any good when you get drop podded or an attack immediately raid and you only have enough time to barely get your pawns into position, if you're lucky. If different things are useful in different situations but the player isn't given a chance to react to the situation and change their weapons accordingly, then you're just playing rock/paper/scissors now.
In the late game it becomes hard to manage multiple work benches that use the same work priority. For example, I really want my colonists to melt slag into metal, but since it's the same skill as cutting stone from chunk, there is no way to prioritize one over the other. The best I can do is assign one specific colonist to each bill, but I don't really want to do that. I want any available pawn to smelt first and only cut chunks if the smelter is occupied. There's actually no way to create this behavior that I'm aware of.
I'd really like some better late-game power management options. Batteries are awful. 50% efficiency and they self discharge? Why are there no better batteries? And there really aren't any better researchable power options, just different researchable power options. They're all side grades with their own advantages and disadvantages. I feel like by the time I'm building a space ship I should be able to build a power plant that is reliable and conduits that don't regularly explode.
I understand it would be open to abuse if we were allowed to select the exact location friendly traders go to. But that said, it's so incredibly annoying when a trader shows up, parks their muffalo on top of my crops and then starts walking in and out of my rooms over and over dragging in dirt. Could we at least get better AI for traders so they don't constantly make messes and disturb sleeping pawns? And tell their muffalos not to eat our crops, while they're at it?
Quote from: mcduff on July 18, 2018, 01:59:05 PM
A minor thing that has occurred to me - shouldn't parkas have a negative impact on heat tolerance? If I'm wearing an alpaca wool parka that insulates me down to -50 degrees, it makes sense that this would make me too hot in a lot of situations, but quite often the heat range ends up being something like -48 to 24 degrees or something, which feels like a big ol range and means your colonists end up wearing parkas into the summer.
They used to have a heat penalty. Not sure if it is a bug or working as intended in 1.0unstable.
Oh, you get -36 drones at some point of gathering enough wealth now, how cute. Didn't quite make it to those yet. Why not -80? It d be fun to watch a colony screw itself over couple days if you didn't have enough foil helmets for all your people. Although... that was high drone level right? That means you probably can get enough wealth to get to extreme level (at least psychip ships used to have extreme level).
A subtle nudge with a baseball bat to the guts, that you might wanna stay poor if you wanna stay alive.
Can the suicidal raiders be fixed at some point? Why would they choose to attack the insects on the map instead of me during a raid? They are not even near me!
Picture of a suicidal raider (https://www.dropbox.com/s/esr6r4pmgjmvia6/20180718203932_1.jpg?dl=0)
I too have noticed the pawn gets plague event is common in caravan too, and i agree it's a dick move. AI using a cheese tactic.
The highest drone I got was extreme with -48, that kicks ass! But I bought foil helmets beforehand because they don't start at this level so you can get prepared for that.. I definitely did after having my first psychic ship in 1.0 and wanted to prepare for a view days which wasn't quite the best idea in terms of general mood.
But I was also lucky that 3 of my women were in happy relationships and I had every drug available to soften the moods which I prescribed everybody in need ;-)
I'm playing phoebe hard btw.
I guess this is one of the things that shall add some weight to internal threats and I don't see it that negatively..probably it makes it mandatory to produce drugs for not having your people going insane, which isn't a good thing if course..
In my run the moods are relatively high constantly and I haven't much to worry in that regard so I quite like this event for spicing things up a little..
2 of 3 times a trade caravan gatheres near my freezer and they always walk in an out and the temperature get too hot. Now again during a heat wave and half of my meat will rot if they don't go away. It is *really* annoying to a point where I want to attack or just devmode them away. I can't forbid the doors (they ignore it) and I can't even build a wall in front of it because they always walk over it can canvel building (which is btw the other really annoying thing visitors do). Earler when they weren't next to my freezer, they gathered right on a new house I started to build, so it was a forced construction freeze until they went away.
They should just stay a bit further away from my building. Like right outside the home area. If I want to trade, I wouldn't care that my colonist need to walk 5-10 more cells to talk to them.
--
- About half of the raids in my current game were melee only, which are really easy to fight against. Could just be random and a too small sample size, but I would like more diversity. Even a almost only melee raid with 2 or 3 shooters would be way more challenging.
- I'm a day 71 and so far I only got 3 item stashes (and not sure if the 1 prisoner resque quest was early this game or last). No trade offers so far. And the stash rewards are not very tempting. It's also badly guarded, the main problem is just the time I need for my pawns to get there and back. Being 3 days away with 1 or 2 colonists looses a lot of potentional value and that for an infinite chemful reactor. Still not sure if I want to take on that quest.
- I had quite a few refugee chases (4 I think). Although I only did the first and even there the raid was really strong since it got changed. For the other chases I didn't want to take the risk for a potential bad pawn. And I don't mean bad in stats, but bad in not fitting into the colony. I like having more mediocre pawn and not everyone being perfect. I even have a potato-girl who only can medic a plant, but it's fine. It would just be nice to get some more information on the refugee chase letter. It's a bit weird that they have time to tell me their backstory, name and age, but a simple "My best skill is construction and my favorite passion is social" to even advertise themselves is too much. That way I could at least get a hint on whether they are my long-needed grower and fit into my colony or if I take the risk anyway too see their complete stats. (Or maybe they say their best and worst skill, whatever fits and is not too much.)
Quote from: Madman666 on July 18, 2018, 02:33:59 PM
Oh, you get -36 drones at some point of gathering enough wealth now, how cute. Didn't quite make it to those yet. Why not -80? It d be fun to watch a colony screw itself over couple days if you didn't have enough foil helmets for all your people. Although... that was high drone level right? That means you probably can get enough wealth to get to extreme level (at least psychip ships used to have extreme level).
A subtle nudge with a baseball bat to the guts, that you might wanna stay poor if you wanna stay alive.
Just happened to me again. Fun times are ahead. I only have one foil helmet, so uh, the boys are going to have to share.
(https://i.imgur.com/veUb0CV.jpg)
I popped a pulse soother, it's +15 so now this is 'only' -16, but I the soother is only 25 hours so I don't think it'll outlast the drone.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 18, 2018, 02:33:59 PM
Oh, you get -36 drones at some point of gathering enough wealth now, how cute. Didn't quite make it to those yet. Why not -80? It d be fun to watch a colony screw itself over couple days if you didn't have enough foil helmets for all your people. Although... that was high drone level right? That means you probably can get enough wealth to get to extreme level (at least psychip ships used to have extreme level).
A subtle nudge with a baseball bat to the guts, that you might wanna stay poor if you wanna stay alive.
psychic hypersensitive at highest psychic drone intensity is indeed -83 mood. And you thought you were joking!
Of course there are ways to deal with it outside of foil hat. All might be considered gamey by certain game dev standard. :)
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 18, 2018, 03:12:39 PM
Just happened to me again. Fun times are ahead. I only have one foil helmet, so uh, the boys are going to have to share.
Well thats kind of bs event. Chuggin yayo to combat -48 drone is a recipe for even worse disaster with it being capable of just oneshot addicting people. And i really don't see me having like 10-12 foil helmets for my 26 people.
I understand having increasingly strong drone on psychic ships, since it basically punishes you for not destoying it fast enough. But this is just punishing you for having too much wealth. Yet again. And managing such drones with 20+ people is a massive pain, with forcing hats on everyone and feeding yayo to unlucky ones, that don't have a helmet. Screw it, i am disabling it in my save. Tying an event we mostly don't have any control over to wealth level. What a nice idea.
Another year or so on arid desert. General activity:
Large threat: Sappers (~16) vs ~10
Losses: 1 death, some construction
Ugh, my joywired dude who was just about to kick pyschite addiction got shot in the brain down to 4/10, which killed him due to the withdrawal joywire. Non-turret focus has a big weak point before you get fully kitted out with power armor and charge weapons
Large threat: Infestation (~12 hives)
Losses: Arm chopped off
Managed to actually deal with like 50 bugs with only 5 fighters in power armor, using 3 v 1 melee backed with two shooters. I was kinda hoping I wouldn't aggro 90% of the infestation, as it was literally spread across 50% of the map, but I did. Infestation aggro still confuses me.
At about this point I start building cannons anyways. Main reasoning is I want to do some caravanning and it's kind of suicide without extreme fortificatino on randy. They are, however, on hold fire by default until I seriously need them, to save on steel so I can buy plasteel instead.
Large threat: Randy Raid spiral (tribals + 1 day later psychic ship w/4 centipedes and ~20 other + 1 hour later 38 wargs)
Losses: 1 death, 1 guy had BOTH arms lost.
The tribals ended up getting completely downed by a combination of the trap corridor and the caravn trying to leave. No interaction on my part.
Sometime soon after a psychic ship lands and unfortunately, right before I'm about to pop it, 38 wargs show up so they didn't fight each other. 20 wargs make it past the traps and chew off a guys arm. One guy had chemical fascination and was binging on drugs right at the fort entrance. Tried to arrest him very quickly and ended up accidentally killing him ::)
Psychic ship itself wasn't too bad as I had mortars up. A bunch of centipedes made it through the traps, ended up with a dudes OTHER arm blown off by the sniper turret when his shield broke.
Threat: ~12 drop pod outlanders
Losses: Brain damage 5/10, arm shot off
Ugh. drop pods. When people think "fun" and "rimworld" they all think drop pods right? Anyways, some priceless sculptures were smashed, and since it was close quarters I had to melee them, resulting in someone getting brain injury.
Personal thoughts on fighting vs cannons: eventually you end up getting enough steel that you should build turrets anyways. however, in the beginning the melee + power armor is very good for quelling small threats. Later the acculation of brain injury means fighting melee is insane, so at that point you may as well have cannon fire support.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 18, 2018, 07:24:34 AM
New build!
Of note in this build is the translation cleaner tool. This tool updates translation files and inserts the English data for reference. It'll make translating much, much simpler. Translators, please use it! It's on the main menu when a non-English language is selected.
Raw changelog is below. As always, the changelog is here for reference, but posts in this thread should please revolve around play experiences and ideally state the storyteller/difficulty and include screenshots of the "debug" history graphs.
Still lots to do!
---
Reduce death-on-downed chance.
Tune up quest rewards slightly.
Adjusted population/storyteller tunings.
Spear rework. Reduces its damage, gave it special armor penetration, recoded how stab damage interacts with internal organs (it no longer specifically targets organs unless you hit some external part that contains those organs). Adjusted mechanoid melee attack tools.
Fix: GrammarRequest.includesBare not cleared in Clear()
If non-English language is selected and GrammarResolver fails to resolve a text, we now try again with English rules.
Mechanoids now have some internal body parts and capacities to go with them.
Refined and condensed social ability-related stats.
Tuned health and coverage of some body parts.
Adjust probability of talk topics.
Scale down stone chunk art to 64 pixels.
Misc adjustments: -Reduced minimum adaptation factor. -Removed imprisoned mood debuff thought. -Rewrite armor rating description to be clearer. -Corpses deteriorate slower. -Overlapped watermill power 50% -> 30%. -Mortar min range now ends in .9 so the circle looks nicer. -Flak jacket now insulates like a cloth jacket. -Adjust prisoner resistance. -Adjust mental break chance per time. -Default auto rearm traps to on. -Rename Char ITab to Story.
Adjust animals' manhunter chances and speed.
Removed unnecessary SelectLanguage() from TranslationFilesCleaner.
Fixed minor translation files cleaner issue.
Enabled the "cleanup translation files" button.
Made NormalizedHandle() use white-listed characters instead of black-listed.
TranslationFilesCleaner now keeps comments in full-list injections.
TranslationFilesCleaner now also handles backstories.
Translation placeholders now use TODO symbol instead of an empty string.
Updated the "cleanup translation files" dialog text.
Fix: No missing def injections are detected if no injections of that def are defined.
TranslationFilesCleaner improvements - it now handles full-list injections correctly. Fixed some translation issues.
Not that I should claim sole credit, especially with the stabbing mechanoid issues, but this is the second time my feedback was almost immediately incorporated, really makes me feel good :3
I'm absolutely going to try out the new spears (well, might have to mine some more plasteel first ;)
I dare say best dev interaction I've ever had!
Re: super drone
There's cryosleep as an option, though of course with some peoples luck they'll eat a drop pod raid right after
I might be responsible for this when I suggested that psychic drones should be scaled to be weaker early and stronger late.
These aren't the numbers I would have quite picked (probably go 15-30 range), but maybe I am contaminated from actually playing the game :( it is of course better to pick numbers completely isolated from any practical scenario
Scaling every single thing to wealth isn't a way to make the game interesting. Its a way to make the game short. Especially since some events just don't have a reliable counter and end up as "screw you for no reason" thing.
And we're through.
Lost 1 muffalo to a slaughterer break (a male, thankfully), and had to imprison a colonist that tried to leave so he's got a mood debuff for a week. The pulse soothe helped. It didn't stop the breaks, but it made them mostly mild ones.
There is the flip side that scaling by wealth makes extreme biomes sometimes easier than easy biomes. I generally find them boring as no crops/hunting usually mean sitting around twiddling your thumbs until you get deep drilling.
It's a really fine line between keeping things challenging in the late game and not making the player feel punished for success. Some things work well, like scaling raids. We'd expect the more wealth we have the more attention we're going to attract and the more people are going to want what we have.
The psychic drones though, those just feel arbitrary and unfair. I think in terms of balance it's actually not a huge deal, but in terms of fun it feels pretty bad.
after latest build update my pawns seem not to be able to finish any jobs workbench related. opened the debug log and it looks like this:
Quote
JobDriver threw exception in initAction for pawn Lalande driver=JobDriver_DoBill (toilIndex=13) driver.job=(DoBill (Job_17774792) A=Thing_ElectricStove2424596 B=Thing_RawPotatoes3726166 C=(67, 0, 192)) lastJobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_Work
System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'Verse.HediffSet.GetNotMissingParts'.
at (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.GenRecipe.MakeRecipeProducts_Patch1 (Verse.RecipeDef,Verse.Pawn,System.Collections.Generic.List`1<Verse.Thing>,Verse.Thing,RimWorld.IBillGiver) <IL 0x00057, 0x00091>
at Verse.AI.Toils_Recipe/<FinishRecipeAndStartStoringProduct>c__AnonStorey2.<>m__0 () [0x000a7] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\DoBill\Toils_Recipe.cs:205
at Verse.AI.JobDriver.TryActuallyStartNextToil () [0x00214] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.JobUtility:TryStartErrorRecoverJob(Pawn, String, Exception, JobDriver) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobUtility.cs:22)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:459)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.<DoRecipeWork>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\DoBill\Toils_Recipe.cs:154)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:344)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:131)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:556)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:505)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
or a different one:
Quote
JobDriver threw exception in initAction for pawn Hawk driver=JobDriver_DoBill (toilIndex=13) driver.job=(DoBill (Job_17775855) A=Thing_TableMachining249458 B=Thing_Chemfuel3755153 C=(72, 0, 181)) lastJobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_Work
System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'Verse.HediffSet.GetNotMissingParts'.
at (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.GenRecipe.MakeRecipeProducts_Patch1 (Verse.RecipeDef,Verse.Pawn,System.Collections.Generic.List`1<Verse.Thing>,Verse.Thing,RimWorld.IBillGiver) <IL 0x00057, 0x00091>
at Verse.AI.Toils_Recipe/<FinishRecipeAndStartStoringProduct>c__AnonStorey2.<>m__0 () [0x000a7] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\DoBill\Toils_Recipe.cs:205
at Verse.AI.JobDriver.TryActuallyStartNextToil () [0x00214] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:455
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.JobUtility:TryStartErrorRecoverJob(Pawn, String, Exception, JobDriver) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobUtility.cs:22)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:459)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:363)
Verse.AI.<DoRecipeWork>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\DoBill\Toils_Recipe.cs:154)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:344)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:131)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:556)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:505)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
I do apologize if it's mods related and I can't see it, but still bringing it up as it might be helpful.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 18, 2018, 03:52:16 PM
I think in terms of balance it's actually not a huge deal, but in terms of fun it feels pretty bad.
Fun is overrated xD
Has trap rearming been moved out of basic? My colonists don't seem to be rearming them any more.
Auto-rearm got defaulted to on. Maybe the update messed with existing traps. I thought it was hauling, though.
Edit: yeah it's hauling
Howdy folks,
Yesterday I installed rimworld 1.0 and started a game :)
Crashlanded, cassandra medium, no mods, everything default. Temperate forest with year-round growing, to keep things simple.
I'm a very slow player, I like to plan my base early on and I rarely increase the game-speed. This is how I (apparently) played rimworld for over 2000 hours, lol. I prefer a low number of colonists, and as such I don't have a lot of experience with caravans. As for combat, it is not the most important part of my rimworld game. I gave up on killboxes long ago, stopped using turrets, and tried to survive without power armor.
___
The ability to mod rimworld is really great. Most of my favourite mods have made it into the vanilla game, but there is one mod I will dearly miss in 1.0
It is the small shelf.
In A17 I wanted to start using shelves, but I ran into two problems:
1) After queueing up a number of shelves in the woodworkshop, my haulers would fill the shelves up with weapons. Then I had to manually remove weapons from the storage list, and the haulers had to bring all the weapons back to where they belonged.
2) Most often, I wanted to store small amounts of items, like in the druglab: 1 tile for cloth, 1 tile for neutroamine, 1 tile for herbal medicine, etc. But regular shelves are 2x1 stockpiles, and you need some serious micro to fill them up with two different items.
As a workaround for the first problem, I wrote a simple mod. Then B18 came out, and while browsing mods on steam, I found a mod that sets the default storage for shelves to empty. There was also a mod called "small shelf", this shelf is only one tile in size, and the default is also empty.
Well, I have never built a 2x1 shelf again!
A 1x1 shelf is much more flexible and useful. You can fit them into little alcoves in corridors (at T-junctions in the walls). The 1x1 shelves are much easier to rearrange as well.
___
My colony is now 10 days old, the game progressed without any weird stuff so far.
Some small details:
There's a new message: "Cannot build a roof over an oak tree". Fair enough, but when you build a wall over a tree, there's no message. In both cases the tree is cut down and the build is finished, so the new message is superfluous, in my opinion.
Batteries now need research, which didn't cause a real problem for me. But it pretty much forces you to start research very early. Usually my researcher would spend more time doing hauling jobs, some slow mining, or plantcutting.
The new zoning buttons are very nice! Maybe the name "Expand zone" could use some improvement, though. The button not only expands existing zones, you can also create new zones with it.
When placing beds, I have a hard time seeing the pillow-end, the graphics are very faint.
Quote from: Greep on July 18, 2018, 04:26:12 PM
Auto-rearm got defaulted to on. Maybe the update messed with existing traps. I thought it was hauling, though.
Edit: yeah it's hauling
Huh, I was sure it was in basic? Maybe I just misread something.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 18, 2018, 12:37:49 PM
Just for fun, I decided to take a look at how many shots it took for my guys with excellent pulse rifles to down a single centipede.
41. It took 41 shots, and that's only counting the ones that hit and weren't completely deflected.
Urgh. I think I'm done bashing my head against this problem for now. I'm going to have to build a giant trap maze again. Sigh...
Yep, 80% sharp armor. It has to go down. I'll keep saying it until it happens. It just has to go down.
I also reluctantly agree that psychic drones are too high. Soothes are always a set value, but psychic drones can get worse and worse and can just cripple colonists because wealth.jpg.
Started using the LRMS. Verdict: Still nearly worthless lawl. You're still risking the lives of possibly multiple colonists for something that is just not worth much. In this case I sent out a bionic warrior to go fight some cougars, night fell and his cruddy dual legs made him as slow as them and I had to leave. So now he gets nothing and risks ambushes going there and back.
Bio warrior fighting colonist + gear: probably worth 10-20k to me. Gold lump: ~1k. Risk is not even remotely worth it.
Quote from: Greep on July 18, 2018, 04:50:30 PM
Started using the LRMS. Verdict: Still nearly worthless lawl. You're still risking the lives of possibly multiple colonists for something that is just not worth much. In this case I sent out a bionic warrior to go fight some cougars, night fell and his cruddy dual legs made him as slow as them and I had to leave. So now he gets nothing and risks ambushes going there and back.
Bio warrior fighting colonist + gear: probably worth 10-20k to me. Gold lump: ~1k. Risk is not even remotely worth it.
It won't ever be worth it sending one (2-3) guy at the point of having power armor\bionics while threats scale to your colony, not your caravan you sending out. And it won't scale to caravans, because cheesecakes.
I guess if I got a threat I could handle at the lump guaranteed it might be worth the risk of ambushes, but still. Ugh. Caravans. The russian roullete of rimworld.
I kind of feel as if Centipedes should be tough to kill, like an "oh shit" moment. But they can't be both an "oh shit" moment and something that happens three times a year once the wealth hits a certain level. If they're going to be regular fighters they need to be less of a pain to kill, if they're going to be this tough they need to be more of a once every so often option.
Well, last time i checked it was a lot more manageable with 5-6 properly armored guys out of 20 colonists with like 300k wealth then it used to be. It wasn't 16 raiders against my 4 unlucky dudes anymore. Buut after that threat scaling was adjusted couple times, so who knows. This game has "you're rich - you're dead" policy lately.
Started a new colony in Arid Scrubland and as tribal start I need wood. So I thought I would try out the tree planting, set up an 18x18 plot for drago trees. With two planters with 10+ skill I still haven't finished planting and the first tree I planted is nearly full grown at 88%. Then after all that time spent planting I lose 10 trees to blight and get zero return, no wood from them even though if not blighted I would have gotten wood from them. Tree planting and growing just feels bad when you get to plant on average 5 trees per day with two growers.
Due to the lack of wood I've had to rush electricity and cooling, normally I have been getting smithing and plate armour first (after stone cutting, complex clothes and furniture). The time taken to get what you need as tribal feels worse, though with the change to water mills I no longer feel obligated to play on a river map though the defense from a large river is hard to ignore. Out of 6 colonists I have 2 people researching full time.
Quote from: mcduff on July 18, 2018, 01:59:05 PM
A minor thing that has occurred to me - shouldn't parkas have a negative impact on heat tolerance? If I'm wearing an alpaca wool parka that insulates me down to -50 degrees, it makes sense that this would make me too hot in a lot of situations, but quite often the heat range ends up being something like -48 to 24 degrees or something, which feels like a big ol range and means your colonists end up wearing parkas into the summer.
I agree, also perhaps dusters could be at the opposite end, increase the lower end of comfort for them. Dusters and parkas should slow a colonist down, while jackets should give no speed penalty and cover a good middle temp range. As is stands I see no reason to use anything but dusters in less extreme biomes, it'd be nice to have some more decision making in this area.
So funny it's come up, I just did a LRMS site. It was a components site, outpost with 12 defenders.
I drop podded in 4 dudes in Power armor with pulse rifles. I did drop in the middle because that seemed more badass even if it was dumb tactically. No one was downed, but I took moderate damage. Probably could have come out of it only lightly wounded if I dropped at the edge.
I then podded in steel so my builder could build a pod launcher. Unfortunately, I forgot to send fuel, so I had to send another pod. I podded back one of the soldiers I sent immediately since he wasn't that great at mining. I was going to send another back too and leave 2, but my builder mental broke into a daze and no one else had 6 construction. That was annoying.
I got a double sapper raid that destroyed my colony because I didn't notice the second group. After reloading (I've given up on not doing that since I got wrecked 7 times against the same poison ship) I got a 14 elephant manhunter pack instead that killed one of my melee. He had brain damage anyway. Had my builder not broke I'd have had an extra fighter for it, but it probably wouldn't have made a huge difference. It certainly would have made a big difference on the sapper raid, though.
I spent 10 drop pods and 1 launcher which is 670 steel and 11 components, total. There was 162 components at the site. If we wanna say a component is worth 12 steel that's 1944 steel worth of components, versus 802 steel spent is 1142 steel in exchange for about 300 chemfuel.
Now, had I optimized I could have cut it down to 8 pods. Each pod is 60 steel and 1 component or 72 steel total, so that would have been 1286 steel.
Steel is really precious but overall that's kinda bleh. Had it not been an outpost with 12 defenders I wouldn't have had to use 4 soldiers, which also necessitated 4 pods since I couldn't leave myself vulnerable for long by walking.
I've changed it to silver, I'm curious how much raw silver I can get. I've been buying up all the stun/insanity lances and doomsday rockets I can because raids are just getting ridiculous at this point. I'm also going to see if I can keep all the factions at allied via gifts for defensive assistance. Still trying to adapt to the spear nerf.
That is a good point about using drop pods to get back, that takes ambushes out of the equation. Although when you tally up the resources in that case, that further saps your gains from the lump as the drop pods get used up and the chem fuel as well. I might check try it out again for some plasteel lumps, but it's pretty iffy.
Honestly raids and threat scaling in general just needs a hard cap to prevent it from going nuts and irritating people. And it should be defined by difficuly, with Extreme not having said cap at all - so you wanna get raped - enjoy extreme difficulty, where raids will never stop growing at all. And if you don't want to have your caravan of 6 people ambushed by 20, just because you have 30 people in power armor at home - lower the difficulty by couple notches and have fun.
Maybe even make drones on Extreme scale without a cap too, so drama lovers can boast how big a drone they've managed to survive before dying horribly.
Technically there is a hard cap now, but 10k raid points is pretty high ;)
I made a suggestion here regarding difficulty and raids, but I guess people don't like the maths:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42424.0
Thats not a cap, thats a fail safe from frying CPUs and getting fined by angry customers.
Quote from: Tynan on July 18, 2018, 07:24:34 AM
New build!
Adjust animals' manhunter chances and speed.
This feels a little over the top to me personally. It is fun watching animals that are literally going extinct irl from being shot with rifles run down guys in power armor, wielding charge rifles and waste them. The actual effect is that I just have to draft several people to hunt anything larger than a monkey. If that's the intended effect I suppose its working, but it seems counter intuitive to introduce a wildlife tab only to make it suicidal to use it several patches later.
Not saying it couldn't have been tweaked up but when you give something with a large amount of health a 10% chance to go manhunter each time its injured the cumulative effect is that they basically always go manhunter unless you get a lucky shot. Combined with the fact that elephant's and rhino's are now cheetahs...just feels annoying having to micro it when the outcome is virtually identical.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 18, 2018, 05:21:24 PM
So funny it's come up, I just did a LRMS site. It was a components site, outpost with 12 defenders.
I drop podded in 4 dudes in Power armor with pulse rifles. I did drop in the middle because that seemed more badass even if it was dumb tactically. No one was downed, but I took moderate damage. Probably could have come out of it only lightly wounded if I dropped at the edge.
I then podded in steel so my builder could build a pod launcher. Unfortunately, I forgot to send fuel, so I had to send another pod. I podded back one of the soldiers I sent immediately since he wasn't that great at mining. I was going to send another back too and leave 2, but my builder mental broke into a daze and no one else had 6 construction. That was annoying.
I got a double sapper raid that destroyed my colony because I didn't notice the second group. After reloading (I've given up on not doing that since I got wrecked 7 times against the same poison ship) I got a 14 elephant manhunter pack instead that killed one of my melee. He had brain damage anyway. Had my builder not broke I'd have had an extra fighter for it, but it probably wouldn't have made a huge difference. It certainly would have made a big difference on the sapper raid, though.
I spent 10 drop pods and 1 launcher which is 670 steel and 11 components, total. There was 162 components at the site. If we wanna say a component is worth 12 steel that's 1944 steel worth of components, versus 802 steel spent is 1142 steel in exchange for about 300 chemfuel.
Now, had I optimized I could have cut it down to 8 pods. Each pod is 60 steel and 1 component or 72 steel total, so that would have been 1286 steel.
Steel is really precious but overall that's kinda bleh. Had it not been an outpost with 12 defenders I wouldn't have had to use 4 soldiers, which also necessitated 4 pods since I couldn't leave myself vulnerable for long by walking.
I've changed it to silver, I'm curious how much raw silver I can get. I've been buying up all the stun/insanity lances and doomsday rockets I can because raids are just getting ridiculous at this point. I'm also going to see if I can keep all the factions at allied via gifts for defensive assistance. Still trying to adapt to the spear nerf.
its funny that if you play the game in the non 'terrible way' (according to dev), just how many mechanics turn into noobtraps. Even high-risk high reward lines are typically frowned upon with such modes especially after midgame, to say nothing of low reward high risk lines.
I get that sense with latest prisoner recruitment change too. Opportunity cost evaluations just don't seem to factor into the scalings, and many false choices continue to be introduced.
Quote from: Tynan on July 18, 2018, 07:24:34 AM
Adjusted population/storyteller tunings.
Was this tuned up? I don't often play tribal [medium] or randy so perhaps it's an effect of that but I started a new game today and got to 8 colonists within the first season despite letting 2 drop-podded ones die.
This might just be a Randy thing of course?
By the way I noticed Ibex Buck / Doe has the new 'standard' 2%, but 'Buck / Doe' don't have any manhunter chance, they're pretty much the only large animal in temperate that won't manhunter you now making hunting a lot more deadly. It feels odd that a deer won't attack you but an alpaca will!
I'm happy by some of the changes, it was unbalanced before especially for megasloths (best meat, best leather and no manhunter chance!) but a few more animals to hunt safely (hares?) would be good.
And lastly, perhaps this is better in the suggestions forum, but a "flee to base (bedroom?)" would be a really good option. Currently fleeing is more likely to end them up back in the corner where they kite but don't fight back, while "fight" just ends them up in melee. A "flee to base" would let them flee home which could lead the manhunters back past traps which is a better story and lets the pawns do their thing without micromanagement. ( Currently I've resorted to drafting to hunt megasloths which feels a bit too gamey).
Quote from: bbqftw on July 18, 2018, 06:02:02 PM
its funny that if you play the game in the non 'terrible way' (according to dev), just how many mechanics turn into noobtraps. Even high-risk high reward lines are typically frowned upon with such modes especially after midgame, to say nothing of low reward high risk lines.
I get that sense with latest prisoner recruitment change too. Opportunity cost evaluations just don't seem to factor into the scalings, and many false choices continue to be introduced.
Here's a fun case in point:
Got my first aid from an ally event. I was ready to funnel the enemy into my killbox but my allies ran out to meet them. Now, if I was on commitment mode I would have let my allies die then let the survivors of the enemy raid die in my kill box. Risk free. It's the optimal strategy.
But, since I figured I can reload if it goes to shit anyway, I decided to join my allies on the glorious field of battle and this happened:
(https://i.imgur.com/dsslN3O.jpg)
A massive 2v1 faction battle in the forest! How cool is that!?
I think players need more incentive to take risks, and ways to mitigate risks so that when we talk about risks, it's the risk of something bad but recoverable happening, not risks of your entire colony being gone. Setting the player up to fail via randomness just makes the player averse to doing that thing the next time. Rewarding them for it makes them do it more and creates better stories in the long run.
Can't agree more. This is quite an epic battleground you've shown. It was really quite a big change, that now friendlies also don't have a cap on raid strength. In b18 this would be totally impossible.
So in this new playthrough. Got two guys with chemical interest and a raid drops a few drugs, come go juice and wake up. Next day one guy goes on a wake up binge, instantly addicted. Next day he binges again, big overdose, instant brain damage of 50%. Next day other chemical interest guy goes on a go juice binge, instant addiction once again. Now both of these guys were happy, not even close to a minor break risk. Chemical interest is just so frustrating to play with on a colonist. It is worse than pyromaniac in my eyes. At least pyro generally doesn't hurt the pawn and they can still be useful.
What's worse is chemical interest effectively stop you from making money via making drugs so you are stuck with making art. To make drugs you really just need someone high enough skill to grow psychoid. For art you need an artist. You will already have a grower so that's not really a constraining factor.
The frequency of drug binges the moment a happy pawn saw drugs is too much. Daily drug binges for happy pawns just sapped the fun out of this colony. Apart from arresting the pawns daily what other counterplay is there to this trait? I may as well just execute or exile these pawns now due to them now needing to beat their addictions.
While writing this I went back in to the game, two days passed and now the pawn addicted to wake up is now binging on psychite. Every other day they are bingeing it is just way too frequent.
Saying never have drugs in the colony is like saying never build anything flammable or store anything flammable if you have a pyro in the colony.
Edit:- the pawn addicted to wake up has now died not because of an overdose the cause of death is listed as "wake up addiction" I have never had a pawn die of addiction before. So he went on a psychoid binge and died of wake up addiction. This obviously sent the husky bonded to him on a rampage.
The only thing I can do now if I have chemical interest colonists is to keep them in combat stance while someone else burns any drugs dropped. So now I need to have a campfire going on a wood starved map as I am a long way off getting cremation. None of this was fun, challenging or engaging. I don't feel like a fun story happened he just took drugs everyday till he died.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 18, 2018, 06:55:12 PMChemical interest is just so frustrating to play with on a colonist. It is worse than pyromaniac in my eyes. At least pyro generally doesn't hurt the pawn and they can still be useful.
Agreed. Pyros can be easily handled with a little micro; irritating but not the end of the world. But a chemical interest pawn is a massive liability, not just in terms of lost income but also in the high likelihood of addiction and the very long term mood effects of weaning them off. The only valid strategy is to manually wall off all drugs, which allows keeping some around for emergencies but precludes drug production for money, and even then they will always end up finding some drug dropped by a dead raider. Chemical interest is one of the reasons why I avoid any event with random pawns (world-event downed rescue, fleeing from pirates, etc); I ignore all but drop-pod pawns or downed raiders where I can see the stats beforehand.
Quote from: giltirn on July 18, 2018, 07:03:40 PM
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 18, 2018, 06:55:12 PMChemical interest is just so frustrating to play with on a colonist. It is worse than pyromaniac in my eyes. At least pyro generally doesn't hurt the pawn and they can still be useful.
Agreed. Pyros can be easily handled with a little micro; irritating but not the end of the world. But a chemical interest pawn is a massive liability, not just in terms of lost income but also in the high likelihood of addiction and the very long term mood effects of weaning them off. The only valid strategy is to manually wall off all drugs, which allows keeping some around for emergencies but precludes drug production for money, and even then they will always end up finding some drug dropped by a dead raider. Chemical interest is one of the reasons why I avoid any event with random pawns (world-event downed rescue, fleeing from pirates, etc); I ignore all but drop-pod pawns or downed raiders where I can see the stats beforehand.
Or they wander off to the nearest insect hive and get downed so you can't play on cave maps or you have to kill all hives the moment you get a chemical interest pawn. I can't think of another trait that is as detrimental and inhibiting as chemical interest.
If they went on drug binges when their mood was low ie minor break risk it would be one thing but these are pawns that are at high happiness having daily of bi-daily mental breaks.
My new favorite things to do with the bodies of my enemies: Sending them home.
(https://i.imgur.com/UQoN2p6.png)
;)
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 18, 2018, 07:06:14 PM
Or they wander off to the nearest insect hive and get downed so you can't play on cave maps or you have to kill all hives the moment you get a chemical interest pawn. I can't think of another trait that is as detrimental and inhibiting as chemical interest.
Can't wander anywhere if they are made into comfy hats.
Results of recent changes to body part health. Here are the new things that now one-hit kill you. All scenarios assume no Tough trait unless explicitly noted. All of these scenarios were directly observed in dev mode tests unless stated otherwise.
Main change is neck, which HP now falls to 20, with 2/20 being the baseline for 0% part efficiency (aka fatality).
Heart also took an HP nerf, to 15, as well as liver. Both are 15 now, I believe both used to be 20.
Neck one-hit protection also appears to be removed, that said, it doesn't really matter that much since its HP is so low now and it doesn't require to be one-shot to kill anyways due to aforementioned 2/20 being fatal.
For mechs:
* Tough CLance unmitigated neck shot now fatal.
* Mitigated charge lance heart shot and liver shot now fatal (yep, charge lance can kill through legendary power armor-protected torso vitals now. For a shot hitting these organs, this will happen about 25% of the time even against 200% sharps protection)
* Unmitigated heavy charge blaster liver and heart shot now fatal
Some main takeaways:
For common armored situation (a clean ~100 sharps protection with common duster/vest) vs charge lance, you will see approximately 2-2.5x more one-hit-kill scenarios (based on brain, neck, unmitigated stomach, liver, heart hit chances which are all one hit kills now, vs brain, neck, unmitigated stomach in previous patch version).
Power armored shootouts vs lancers will also see a lot more deaths, 3x more assuming ~140 sharps protection. (any brain shot / unmitigated neck vs brain / unmitigated neck / mitigated heart / mitigated liver being the available one-hit-kill probability, someone else can crunch the numbers more accurately)
Facing centipede without significant armor (flak vest or power armor) will now result in about 2.7x more one-hit-kills.
For everything else:
* Unmitigated BAR neck shot now fatal.
* Unmitigated sniper neck shot now fatal (not explicitly tested)
* Unmitigated poor+ pump shotgun neck shot now fatal.
* Unmitigated poor+ chain shotgun neck hit now fatal
* Unmitigated shotgun, chain shotgun, BAR heart shots now fatal.
* Unmitigated shotgun, chain shotgun, BAR liver shots now fatal.
Not fully tested, but a bunch of tribal stuff also becomes one hit kill:
* Unmitigated greatbow liver and heart shots now fatal.
Didn't exhaustively include masterwork / legendary variants - but things like unmitigated masterwork greatbow one hit kill on neck now.
I guess not enough pawns were dying! :D Not enough stories told.
On the subject of chemical interest/fascination - Have to agree that it's definitely a " Critical failure " for pawn generation.
The fact that you have little to no control over their actions and the fact that their actions run the gamut from obnoxious to fatal means that even if they're not strictly speaking worse than not having the pawn at all, they feel that way.
For context - if they were on a no-drug policy and that gave them a -12 mood debuff (The same as Depressive) instead - I'd still occasionally keep someone with chemical interest/fascination.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 18, 2018, 07:24:51 PM
* Unmitigated good+ pump shotgun neck shot now fatal.
* Unmitigated poor+ chain shotgun neck hit now fatal
Chain and pump shotguns do identical damage per shot and damage/AP penalties only apply to Awful ranged weapons. Bonuses don't start until Masterwork. Unmitigated Poor+ pump shots to the neck should be fatal too.
you are right, for both chain shotgun and pump shotgun its poor+, will revise
Quote from: Boboid on July 18, 2018, 07:37:24 PM
On the subject of chemical interest/fascination - Have to agree that it's definitely a " Critical failure " for pawn generation.
The fact that you have little to no control over their actions and the fact that their actions run the gamut from obnoxious to fatal means that even if they're not strictly speaking worse than not having the pawn at all, they feel that way.
For context - if they were on a no-drug policy and that gave them a -12 mood debuff (The same as Depressive) instead - I'd still occasionally keep someone with chemical interest/fascination.
Yeah if there was some way other than making sure no drugs ever are left accessible it would be one thing, but daily mental breaks with two pawns with chem interest is a bit much. I wouldn't mind if you had to keep their mood above minor break risk to avoid it, then I would feel like I had some control over things rather than as it is now a totally happy pawn just goes off and kills themselves for no reason. I don't think any other trait is as costly on pawn time, health and ability for your colony to make silver.
It is always now a Triabal, outlander and Pirate enemy faction ? Tried rerolling maps but it always ended up the same, tribal runs are super boring now, day 60 still at 5 colonist and starting to get overwhelmed, also the Random chance for people to just die even with no 0 hp body parts its just dumb and un fun. :(
-Rename Char ITab to Story.
Not sure this makes sense. Their skills/traits are not a pawns story. I liked "character" or "char" if those are no good then "skills" or "traits" would be better than "story" in my opinion.
Reducing HP of vital areas to increase the frequency of getting one-shot is moving in the wrong direction. All that will do is encourage people not to risk their pawns and find more cheesy strategies. I don't understand why that was done. I felt like the direction was moving more toward not arbitrarily punishing you for having the audacity to actually use your pawns. Now, I'm not so sure.
In other news, did a long range mineral scanner Silver site. 4128 silver, no threats. I used 4 pods, 2 there 2 back, which had just enough space to get what I needed there. So I traded 310 steel and 5 components for 4128 silver. It was a big iffy though, I got sort of lucky they didn't mental break. To ensure they didn't, I would have had to use another pod of materials to give them a nice little set up. I might do that in the future.
I tried to use the silver for goodwill but even a pod of 1000 silver was apparently worth 0 goodwill according to the tooltip, and the option to give silver as a gift wasn't on the comms console. Not sure what that's about. I'm requesting an exotic good trader from my ally, hopefully I get some good stuff, and any left over I'll try to gift.
Fascination is far worse IMO. I can wall off and sell pretty much everything that drops, but you can't really make much money without a MASSIVE pain in the micro-neck. Plus its nice to keep a bit of W-Up or Go-J in the hospital for emergencies, hard to respond to an emergency when you have to dig them out of a wall
Quote from: Boboid on July 18, 2018, 07:37:24 PM
On the subject of chemical interest/fascination - Have to agree that it's definitely a " Critical failure " for pawn generation.
The fact that you have little to no control over their actions and the fact that their actions run the gamut from obnoxious to fatal means that even if they're not strictly speaking worse than not having the pawn at all, they feel that way.
There is always an option to arrest them. I pick my warden and arrest anyone who has annoying or dangerous mental break in wrong time.
But for chemical fascinated I'd just give them what they want really. Hook them up on yayo and beer and let them go as long as they can, with mood through the roof and enhanced speed and workability. If they are so bad, think of them as dispensable and let them take the heat off others in battles too, with reduced pain and enhanced speed. Otherwise, if you grow attached to them — there is whole planet of walking kidneys to replace chemical damaged ones. ;)
They are usually also my first pick to be enhanced with luciferium.
Reduce death-on-downed chance.
OMG I was sitting there for 20 mins walking my pawn over the water trying to drown him. That isn't drowned it's downed! COPY
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 18, 2018, 08:00:56 PM
-Rename Char ITab to Story.
Not sure this makes sense. Their skills/traits are not a pawns story. I liked "character" or "char" if those are no good then "skills" or "traits" would be better than "story" in my opinion.
Came here to say this. I saw the story tab and thought "oooh is this a concise history of what the... oh no it's the character tab with a name that doesn't have anything to do with what it contains."
Quote from: Sirinox on July 18, 2018, 08:18:05 PM
There is always an option to arrest them. I pick my warden and arrest anyone who has annoying or dangerous mental brake in wrong time.
This reminds me of a gripe I had with my last colony. Chemical binge, trying to keep my dude from getting addicted to yayo (benefits aside, I think the downsides are bad enough that I don't mess with anything stronger than beer or smokeweed, and even then I try to keep it below addiction) so I go to arrest him; He berserks, no big deal, just have the entire rest of the colony mob him and beat him down with fists. Usually no harm, right?
Not this time. He ded.
It's happened a few times, not enough that I'd call it common, but even as seldom as it has happened it feels like too much. unarmed fighting against your own pawns should have nearly zero chance of death. Not completely zero, but less than currently, for sure.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 18, 2018, 08:00:56 PM
-Rename Char ITab to Story.
Not sure this makes sense. Their skills/traits are not a pawns story. I liked "character" or "char" if those are no good then "skills" or "traits" would be better than "story" in my opinion.
Would like to throw my vote behind 'traits' or 'pawn'. Story and char don't feel right.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 18, 2018, 08:18:05 PM
There is always an option to arrest them. I pick my warden and arrest anyone who has annoying or dangerous mental break in wrong time.
But for chemical fascinated I'd just give them what they want really. Hook them up on yayo and beer and let them go as long as they can, with mood through the roof and enhanced speed and workability. If they are so bad, think of them as dispensable and let them take the heat off others in battles too, with reduced pain and enhanced speed. Otherwise, if you grow attached to them — there is whole planet of walking kidneys to replace chemical damaged ones. ;)
They are usually also my first pick to be enhanced with luciferium.
My wake up addicted pawn lasted less than a season. Brain damaged the second binge and was essentially useless till he died of "wake up addiction". Good luck getting to them before they hit themselves up with whatever drug they get to. Seeing as one dose seems to be all it takes for addiction they will get addicted sooner rather than later if you have any drugs in your base.
Drug them up and letting them do their thing does nothing to stop binges, when they binge they cost you silver, do nothing productive and damage their health or die. You are better off killing or exiling the pawn than keep them.
Other traits can be dealt with far easier and have far less of an impact on a colony.
Tree sowing still takes way to long even with ultra grower pawns.
Lost 2 new starts(one rich explorer, one naked brutality) due to hunted animals going nutso, downing my pawn and bleeding out and infection. For being a "2% base chance at rifle range" on all the animals I was hunting it sure triggered WAY more than that.
Centipedes are such a nightmare now, more than they were pre-spear nerf. Lost my colony to a mix of all scyther types but it was the last few centipedes that were the killing blow.
Some feedback regarding the new armor description write-up: it is quite clear now (to me at least). The example is particularly helpful. Thanks for improving the description!
Adding the AP of the traps in the trap description would be helpful.
(A little theorycrafting follows -- please indulge me).
It follows that there are no further benefits when (armor-AP) > 100 if I understand correctly. You get 50% chance to deflect and 50% chance to halve the damage. So, a legendary power armor would perform the same as a masterwork power armor for sharp damage unless the AP is higher than 63.
A legendary hyperweave duster would provide almost the same protection (against sharp) than a normal power armor (200*0.3*1.8 = 108 vs 117 for power armor). A legendary devilstrand flak jacket is also a strong contender at 144*0.4*1.8=103. At low AP, duster/jacket + vest is potentially a better value proposition than power armor for protecting the torso.
After destroying the last base of a faction, I receive a letter notifying me that as a consequence the faction no longer exists. However, the destroyed faction and leader still shows up in the Factions tab.
Could factions please be permanently hidden once destroyed?
Quote from: seerdecker on July 18, 2018, 09:36:05 PM
Some feedback regarding the new armor description write-up: it is quite clear now (to me at least). The example is particularly helpful. Thanks for improving the description!
Adding the AP of the traps in the trap description would be helpful.
(A little theorycrafting follows -- please indulge me).
It follows that there are no further benefits when (armor-AP) > 100 if I understand correctly. You get 50% chance to deflect and 50% chance to halve the damage. So, a legendary power armor would perform the same as a masterwork power armor for sharp damage unless the AP is higher than 63.
A legendary hyperweave duster would provide almost the same protection (against sharp) than a normal power armor (200*0.3*1.8 = 108 vs 117 for power armor). A legendary devilstrand flak jacket is also a strong contender at 144*0.4*1.8=103. At low AP, duster/jacket + vest is potentially a better value proposition than power armor for protecting the torso.
The correct formula is stated earlier in this thread, and yes >100% armor after AP is calculated has utility.
Also, AP and DR/deflection roll is applied to each layer separately. So split layers of armor are extremely ineffective.
So basically what you say is uh.. loosely rooted in reality.
One thing I noticed in map gen is bridges can't be built on mud. I had a road that crossed a river at a pond. The bridge sections followed the road but there were big gaps in the mud. I didn't think much of it until I saw a map where the road crossed marsh, which got bridges.
Quote from: dearmad on July 18, 2018, 02:47:30 PM
I too have noticed the pawn gets plague event is common in caravan too, and i agree it's a dick move. AI using a cheese tactic.
I've had two separate instances of a caravaneer getting not one but TWO different diseases while doing simple 5 day long caravan missions.
It's like the game is rolling for disease on every tile the caravan passes through and has an insanely high chance to roll since i can't remember a single time that my caravans didn't get a disease incident in the last RL week.
Quote
The correct formula is stated earlier in this thread, and yes >100% armor after AP is calculated has utility.
Also, AP is applied to each layer separately.
So basically what you say is uh.. loosely rooted in reality.
I'm aware that AP is applied separately to each layer. My reasoning is that if a duster with 100% rating has 50% chance of negating non-AP damage, and the same applies to a vest, then the probability of some damage being received is 0.5*0.5=25% under Tynan's stated model. This is better than a power armor that has a 50% probability of negating the damage.
For the formula's correctness, either Tynan's description is wrong or your stated formula is wrong. I'm too lazy to decompile the code and verify myself. Hopefully someone else can verify.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 18, 2018, 08:11:31 PM
In other news, did a long range mineral scanner Silver site. 4128 silver, no threats.
Did some investigation to find out why my gold lump felt so lackluster in comparison. Apparently, the site uses 3500-5000 market value to determine minerals. Since I was planning on selling the gold, on extreme I would've gotten only about 1/3-1/2 the value. So a plasteel lump would contain ~300 plasteel. Which is pretty good if you wanted to buy some. So really it looks like the 3 things to use it for are plasteel/uranium, or silver. And components actually.
And if you want steel use the silver to buy steel. Or walk and bring 12 muffalos lol. Although that will just get you killed with the current animal raid scaling :/
The mood bars behind pawns at the top of the screen is covered up by pawns too much. Especially the large pawns.
I'd like to know if caravan disease chance is higher with cassandra vs phoebe, but nobody complaining so far is giving such details.
I haven't caravanned without blue meds on phoebe, and never for more than 10 days at a time, never through jungle, so it's never been an issue.
My pawn just died by springing on their own trap. When the heck this did happen? Did I miss a changelog saying traps now trigger on pawns again?
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 18, 2018, 11:16:58 PM
My pawn just died by springing on their own trap. When the heck this did happen? Did I miss a changelog saying traps now trigger on pawns again?
were they on a mental break? only thing i can think of that would allow that, other than a bug
Quote from: Greep on July 18, 2018, 10:50:15 PM
Did some investigation to find out why my gold lump felt so lackluster in comparison. Apparently, the site uses 3500-5000 market value to determine minerals. Since I was planning on selling the gold, on extreme I would've gotten only about 1/3-1/2 the value. So a plasteel lump would contain ~300 plasteel. Which is pretty good if you wanted to buy some. So really it looks like the 3 things to use it for are plasteel/uranium, or silver. And components actually.
And if you want steel use the silver to buy steel. Or walk and bring 12 muffalos lol. Although that will just get you killed with the current animal raid scaling :/
I've been using drop pods. It's a bit less efficient for iron due to the weight, but it works. My research was done so my former researcher does nothing but use the scanner, and it usually only takes a few days for him to find a new pocket, so I have effectively have as many sites as I want, which makes efficiency less of a problem.
Regarding animals, on the last site I did, I got a huge wolf pack that my two pawns had no chance against. I had to drop pod in 2 extra soldiers to handle it. Not a huge deal though, since you probably won't have LRMSes before you have drop pods. It does suggest the balance on manhunters is off, though.
I think because there is a huge difference between fighting manhunters at your base and fighting them at a random site. In your base it's easy to funnel them into a 1 tile wide doorway and kill them 1 at time, which is a huge force multiplier for you. On caravans you get rushed while totally in the open and surrounded. The amount of difference that makes is huge.
I think I can make enough out of these runs to afford to bribe goodwill on every faction. I got 300 gold from the last site and that looks like enough to bribe one of the tribals up by 60 points.
First off, I got so agitated I forgot to save and just quit the game in frustration. (also Im still away from my main computer and don't want to associated this PC with my steam account so Im still on v1962)
I dunno what significance, intention, or rarity this is but it is technically an experience I had so Im posting it.
A raider with a shooting skill of 1 (not a typo, literally "one") with a "good" auto pistol, and an ambrosia addiction, got 8 "hits" in a row spread across three different colonist all of which were behind a line of sandbags and a wall. 5 of those hits were all on one colonist(which was his target).
I checked his hit chance by selecting him and hovering the mouse over his target.
Final chance was 8%
_________ C C C
SSSS W SSSS W SSSS W
_____ W WWWWWWWWW W R
_____ W ______________ W
I wish my colonists could hit that well with a shooting skill of 1...
Even if it is RNG or just the collateral misses rolling poorly against me, I really don't think a shooter with that low of a shooting skill should ever be able to match a 15+ shooter in hit frequency. Regardless of how it is achieved...
(I debated with myself for several minutes whether or not I should even post this, because I am obviously salty over the event...)
Quote from: cactusmeat on July 18, 2018, 11:22:04 PM
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 18, 2018, 11:16:58 PM
My pawn just died by springing on their own trap. When the heck this did happen? Did I miss a changelog saying traps now trigger on pawns again?
were they on a mental break? only thing i can think of that would allow that, other than a bug
No pawns have been back to triggering traps for a while now. It was removed for a bit but seems to be back again.
According to the wiki, there is a 0.4% chance for a colonist to trigger your traps when they walk over it.
Colonists will try to avoid pathing through traps but not infinitely and not if it's the only path available.
So I rescued an escape pod, did NOT capture. Rescued pawn is incapable of caring. I tend their wounds and they get an infection, which I treat. All further treatments were pawn self-tends from the pawn that is incapable of caring. They died as a result.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 18, 2018, 11:45:46 PM
Quote from: Greep on July 18, 2018, 10:50:15 PM
Did some investigation to find out why my gold lump felt so lackluster in comparison. Apparently, the site uses 3500-5000 market value to determine minerals. Since I was planning on selling the gold, on extreme I would've gotten only about 1/3-1/2 the value. So a plasteel lump would contain ~300 plasteel. Which is pretty good if you wanted to buy some. So really it looks like the 3 things to use it for are plasteel/uranium, or silver. And components actually.
And if you want steel use the silver to buy steel. Or walk and bring 12 muffalos lol. Although that will just get you killed with the current animal raid scaling :/
I've been using drop pods. It's a bit less efficient for iron due to the weight, but it works. My research was done so my former researcher does nothing but use the scanner, and it usually only takes a few days for him to find a new pocket, so I have effectively have as many sites as I want, which makes efficiency less of a problem.
Regarding animals, on the last site I did, I got a huge wolf pack that my two pawns had no chance against. I had to drop pod in 2 extra soldiers to handle it. Not a huge deal though, since you probably won't have LRMSes before you have drop pods. It does suggest the balance on manhunters is off, though.
I think because there is a huge difference between fighting manhunters at your base and fighting them at a random site. In your base it's easy to funnel them into a 1 tile wide doorway and kill them 1 at time, which is a huge force multiplier for you. On caravans you get rushed while totally in the open and surrounded. The amount of difference that makes is huge.
I think I can make enough out of these runs to afford to bribe goodwill on every faction. I got 300 gold from the last site and that looks like enough to bribe one of the tribals up by 60 points.
Well for manhunters if they're slow enough you can just bring a single terminator. In my case cougars were a bit too fast to really be effective that way, though. It is nice that researchers can operate the thing really fast.
killbox
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: publicuser on July 19, 2018, 12:21:26 AM
killbox
i had no idea that attacking through diagonal walls was even possible. stacking animals too. I don't think either should be possible.
I'm wondering what you do when sappers or drops pods hit, what difficulty and such?
Herein lies, the saga of tony:
An escape pod crashes near a poison ship that I'm keeping for fun (100 tiles from farmland). Not that common on medium maps anymore to have poison ships far enough to be benign.
Luckily for me, I've got shield belts, so I feel pretty safe skirting the edge. I need do some temporary hospital bed shenanigans to kind of maneuver a safeish retrieval.
Eventually tony decides the colony sucks and leaves. He instantly dies to traps. Serves him right.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Grethlin on July 18, 2018, 11:59:08 PM
So I rescued an escape pod, did NOT capture. Rescued pawn is incapable of caring. I tend their wounds and they get an infection, which I treat. All further treatments were pawn self-tends from the pawn that is incapable of caring. They died as a result.
THIS. I came to say the same thing! While the pawn i rescued wasnt incapable of caring, they still died due to their own self care.
Regarding chemical interest, a pawn at 50 mood will have a drug binge randomly once per 50 days. So slightly more than once per year.
With chemical fascination, it's once per 25 days.
Unless there's a bug, of course. Also, the chance is higher at low mood and lower at high mood. In future I want the game to report the cause of mental breaks so it's clearer what's going on.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 18, 2018, 08:25:44 PM
Came here to say this. I saw the story tab and thought "oooh is this a concise history of what the... oh no it's the character tab with a name that doesn't have anything to do with what it contains."
This is pretty hyperbolic. The tab contains the back
story, traits (often derived from said back
story) and skills (also largely derived from back
story).
Story's nice because it's short enough to fit on the tab comfortably and emphasizes what the game's about. We'll see how it turns out, this is something trivial to change so discussions on it are almost 100% bikeshedding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality) anyway.
Quote from: cactusmeat on July 19, 2018, 12:44:13 AM
Quote from: publicuser on July 19, 2018, 12:21:26 AM
killbox
i had no idea that attacking through diagonal walls was even possible. stacking animals too. I don't think either should be possible.
I'm wondering what you do when sappers or drops pods hit, what difficulty and such?
These pictures are from internet, not me. but the guy who post it answers your question. All theses are possible.
1. diagonal walls: pay attention the door（keep the door open) and slag beside diagonal wall, it can slow down enemise and make it possible to attack them
2. stacking animals: set one tile area for animals, send animals to the area, then it works
Difficulty: Randy Extreme
Quote from: seerdecker on July 18, 2018, 10:46:44 PM
either Tynan's description is wrong or your stated formula is wrong. I'm too lazy to decompile the code and verify myself. Hopefully someone else can verify.
My mistake actually, my description implied a wrong outcome for >100% armor ratings, I'm going to rewrite it.
Most pawns that have chemical interest or fascination develop undesirable addictions during their binges that most people will try and quell.
Ergo most pawns with either of those traits are suffering ~-35 mood which significantly increases the chance of going on another binge which compounds the problem. Catharsis does its job for 3 days but withdrawal takes considerably longer.
Trying to assert control over chemical interest/fascination literally makes the problem worse.
It's like being Sisyphus except each step you take makes the boulder heavier :P
You can of course just let them do whatever they want with their drugs but.. that's expensive and ultimately fatal as they either overdose or build up tolerances which lead to medical issues.
I'm not actually sure that a chemical fascination pawn can generate more value than he costs if you just leave him to his own devices for a few years. I could be wrong of course - I've never had a chemical fascination pawn last more than 2 years. Mostly because I end up using them as cannon fodder and Molotoving their stupid corpses for being such capricious jerks :P
It might not objectively be the right call, but it's way more satisfying than putting up with them.
Edit: Just for context - In my current Rough cass game where I'm trying to breed 150 capybaras my average mood is somewhere around 60 https://imgur.com/a/6Ky6eDl
The only way I'd accept a chemical fascination pawn into my colony at this stage was if he brought his own suit of legendary power armor with him :P
It would be nice if psychite addiction at least acted as the wiki wrongly says, resulting in kidney damage. At least then you could organ harvest to keep them going. However, I've always seen them get brain damage, in which case they're just a drooling zombie that eats into profits and is only useful for target practice.
Edit: actually that's weird, the defs say kidney damage, so I don't know why I got brain damage once. Maybe I'm wrong.
Quote from: cactusmeat on July 19, 2018, 12:44:13 AM
Quote from: publicuser on July 19, 2018, 12:21:26 AM
killbox
i had no idea that attacking through diagonal walls was even possible. stacking animals too. I don't think either should be possible.
I'm wondering what you do when sappers or drops pods hit, what difficulty and such?
About sappers or drops pods hit, I think you can set more unfinished items or structures and forbid them (like picture 1 shows), AI will attack these things first, then your colonists will kill enemies easily
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 18, 2018, 07:07:36 PM
My new favorite things to do with the bodies of my enemies: Sending them home.
https://i.imgur.com/UQoN2p6.png
It would be very interesting if our pawn that was kidnapped comes back like this. Of course he died.
Well looks like meleeing centipedes is pretty much dead. You take over twice the damage and take about 4 times as long to kill them. :'( Guess my shield guys get to run in circles as decoys again ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
I haven't found anything that really works for centipedes, and the worst part is the high amount of randomness in the raids. I activated a poison ship and got 7 centipedes and only about 4 lancers and 4 scythers. I got completely decimated. Reloaded and tried again, this time I only got 2 centipedes and 20+ lancers and sycthers and won easily.
Pretty much anything beyond 3 is completely impossible for me to deal with at present. Even if I get a melee on all of them they will beat the melee in melee combat and then it's right back to shooting. EMPs aren't effective because they take so long to die they adapt. You may as well not even bring any traditional ballistic weapon other than a sniper rifle, and even charge rifles barely hurt them. I have 2 charge lancers and those do okay, though not great. I think I might be able to handle limited numbers if I had 6 ranged all with charge lancers.
I thought about trying to exploit the lack of heat armor but the problem is firing mollys or inced launchers at them pretty much means I can't use melee, which means a single one of them with an incend launcher of their own will wreck me.
Sycthers and Lancers feel fair, there are tactics to beat them and your weapons can actually hurt them. Centipedes are just... it's ridiculous right now.
Vance just tried to escape, twice, because both caravans who showed up right after the raid can't keep out of his room.
He never made it to the door, possibly because he was shot like 5 times.
[attachment deleted due to age]
it crashed 4-5 times.
https://i.imgur.com/O4UPZIb.jpg
and many bill in here
https://i.imgur.com/Wx5vSeS.jpg
i need rename function bill.
I hope Bill will be succeeded in building the blue print again when it breaks.
and
I wish I could keep the corpse in the crptosloeep casket. I want to keep the body to use the resurrection serum. How strange it is to put a sarcophagus in the fridge!
I want to escape the ship with my colleague corpse.
At least the LRMS isn't as bad as my kneejerk reaction. Mmmm silver. Om nom nom nom nom.
Btw, my lump miner is the best. Bionic nudist warrior. When I kill any threats I go naked mining 8)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: East on July 19, 2018, 02:56:21 AM
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 18, 2018, 07:07:36 PM
My new favorite things to do with the bodies of my enemies: Sending them home.
https://i.imgur.com/UQoN2p6.png
It would be very interesting if our pawn that was kidnapped comes back like this. Of course he died.
Duuuuude! If you refuse to pay the ransome then they come back dead in a pod! That would be epic!
@Madman666
I am immature English. Even if you feel uncomfortable, please understand.I really want to speak politely.But short English makes me afraid.
I'm just curious. I used Steel LMSR and it was very inefficient. Due to the weight limit, we could not take large quantities. I wonder how you play differently from me. How many people do you operate caravan? What are your favorite animals? And how do you deal with threats?
I would like to hear your opinion of the Steel LMSR.
I think it's probably more efficient to do silver sites and then buy the steel from traders. That said, steel isn't bad if you really need steel immediately and have drop pods. Gold is useful also for goodwill to make sure those caravans come regularly, and really good for farming exotic caravans for artifacts and skill trainers because you can trade it and then gift the leftovers to get the goodwill back and just request another.
Quote from: Greep on July 19, 2018, 04:10:13 AM
At least the LRMS isn't as bad as my kneejerk reaction.
https://i.imgur.com/iUfpAuD.png
Do not go alone. This can be done with 1 VS 12.
Quote from: East on July 19, 2018, 04:16:30 AM
@Madman666
...
I would like to hear your opinion of the Steel LMSR.
No worries, I am not that good at English myself. To be brief:
- I use LRMS to find steel mostly.
- I send 5 to 6 armored guys out with like 10 muffaloes, which is suboptimal, but allows to ignore drop pod steel costs. The downside is that my base is very vulnerable during such runs.
- One jogger with bionic legs checks for an ambush - if its something i can deal with - i fight. If not - i bail.
And i absolutely love the fact, that i can find steel through use LRMS.
New build! Still lots to do.
As always, please only comment on something you've played and tell the story about what happened when you played it. Theoretical or changelog discussion is fine for other threads but not this one.
And also please bear in mind that not every change is intended to be final. One way to tune things is to push things far and see what happens in testing. This is a fairly well-known game design technique I've been using since we did it on BioShock Infinite. So if something seems weird, there's no need to react beyond just giving your story of what happened with that feature.
Translators: You can now separately translate male and female words for animals and humans, since they're different in some languages.
----
Visitors and traders choose less annoying spots to hang out.
Added caravan animals points contribution factor. Added special points factor for manhunters vs caravans.
Shift old early-threat-reduction factors into adaptation system.
Fine-tune incident chance interaction with population intent.
Psychic drone level based on points, not wealth. Rebalanced effect.
Misc text updates.
Made more animals safe to hunt. We now write the manhunter on damage chance in wildlife tab.
Misc balancing: -Flatten out chances of chemical interest drug binges per mood. -Centipede points cost increased. -Reduce centipede armor. -Made drop pod launcher cheaper. -Ease off outdoors need a bit. -Adjust points bonus for chased refugee. -Make medium slightly easier. -Adjust raid strategy chances. -Reduce alcohol tolerance gain rate so you can safely drink 1 beer per day.
Added MaleAnimal and FemaleAnimal keyed translations.
Translation files cleaner now writes fields in deterministic order (label first, then description, then everything else in alphabetical order).
Integrated Korean language worker.
Quote from: East on July 19, 2018, 04:32:24 AM
Quote from: Greep on July 19, 2018, 04:10:13 AM
At least the LRMS isn't as bad as my kneejerk reaction.
https://i.imgur.com/iUfpAuD.png
Do not go alone. This can be done with 1 VS 12.
Yeah I'd just walk away, though. Not saying that's smart, but that's my plan ::)
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 19, 2018, 04:04:44 AM
I haven't found anything that really works for centipedes, and the worst part is the high amount of randomness in the raids. I activated a poison ship and got 7 centipedes and only about 4 lancers and 4 scythers. I got completely decimated. Reloaded and tried again, this time I only got 2 centipedes and 20+ lancers and sycthers and won easily.
Pretty much anything beyond 3 is completely impossible for me to deal with at present. Even if I get a melee on all of them they will beat the melee in melee combat and then it's right back to shooting. EMPs aren't effective because they take so long to die they adapt. You may as well not even bring any traditional ballistic weapon other than a sniper rifle, and even charge rifles barely hurt them. I have 2 charge lancers and those do okay, though not great. I think I might be able to handle limited numbers if I had 6 ranged all with charge lancers.
I thought about trying to exploit the lack of heat armor but the problem is firing mollys or inced launchers at them pretty much means I can't use melee, which means a single one of them with an incend launcher of their own will wreck me.
Sycthers and Lancers feel fair, there are tactics to beat them and your weapons can actually hurt them. Centipedes are just... it's ridiculous right now.
If that level of wealth is the right thing to attract the enemy. Reduce your ship's health to less than 50% with multiple mortars. Randomness always has both easy and difficult cases. We must always study the worst case.
If you drag it, you will take on turrets and superior terrain.
The problem is when you can not cope with the worst situation at all. For example drop.
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 04:35:28 AM
As always, please only comment on something you've played and tell the story about what happened when you played it. Theoretical or changelog discussion is fine for other threads but not this one.
And also please bear in mind that not every change is intended to be final. One way to tune things is to push things far and see what happens in testing. This is a fairly well-known game design technique I've been using since we did it on BioShock Infinite. So if something seems weird, there's no need to react beyond just giving your story of what happened with that feature.
I tried hard as a post before. 85 save files and records. Please forgive me if I get a little out of perspective. So let me tell you.
Integrated Korean language worker. thank you.
Speaking of safe huntable animals, will something be done about the "X animal have a Y% chance to turn manhunter" spam if you select a whole bunch of them and click hunt?
1. Select a herd of Muffalos
2. Click hunt
3. Enjoy top-left message spam and noise.
Loving 1.0 so far. Had a small bug, I had a pawn in melee with an enemy, and right next to my pawn was another pawn equipped with an auto pistol. I had the gun pawn manually fire at the melee attacker who was engaged with my other pawn, and nothing. No gunshots, no punches, nothing. She should have been firing at touch range, but instead just stood there doing squat.
Last note, I have to say that food poisoning is the most overpowered nightmare status in the game right now. I'd rather have a month of toxic air, or plague/malaria/anything for two weeks instead of a single day of food poisoning! Your stats drain so low it's a joke, you constantly throw-up which makes you hungrier (fine, IRL, I get it), but the biggest kicker is you have 30% eating rate, and if you vomit mid-food you have to start all over. I've watched pawns struggle to eat a single meal for over 8 in-game hours. Seriously, it's too much.
(btw, the current food poisoning status effect is much closer to the real life Cannabinoid hyperemesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome). Source: I'm an RN who's cared for multiple patients with this diagnosis.
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 01:40:11 AM
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 18, 2018, 08:25:44 PM
Came here to say this. I saw the story tab and thought "oooh is this a concise history of what the... oh no it's the character tab with a name that doesn't have anything to do with what it contains."
This is pretty hyperbolic. The tab contains the backstory, traits (often derived from said backstory) and skills (also largely derived from backstory).
Story's nice because it's short enough to fit on the tab comfortably and emphasizes what the game's about. We'll see how it turns out, this is something trivial to change so discussions on it are almost 100% bikeshedding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality) anyway.
2c on this admittedly trivial topic - the "Log" tab might be better candidate for being renamed "story", as that actually shows the story of this pawn
since it joined the colony... So that's where I go when I want to read about the pawn's history. Whereas I only go the tab currently named story because I want to check the pawn's skill levels and character traits.
Bikes and bikesheds in the game would be nice too. Faster caravans? Lavish meals delivered by gig economy workers? 8)
Quote from: erdrik on July 18, 2018, 11:45:56 PM
First off, I got so agitated I forgot to save and just quit the game in frustration. (also Im still away from my main computer and don't want to associated this PC with my steam account so Im still on v1962)
I dunno what significance, intention, or rarity this is but it is technically an experience I had so Im posting it.
A raider with a shooting skill of 1 (not a typo, literally "one") with a "good" auto pistol, and an ambrosia addiction, got 8 "hits" in a row spread across three different colonist all of which were behind a line of sandbags and a wall. 5 of those hits were all on one colonist(which was his target).
I checked his hit chance by selecting him and hovering the mouse over his target.
Final chance was 8%
_________ C C C
SSSS W SSSS W SSSS W
_____ W WWWWWWWWW W R
_____ W ______________ W
I wish my colonists could hit that well with a shooting skill of 1...
Even if it is RNG or just the collateral misses rolling poorly against me, I really don't think a shooter with that low of a shooting skill should ever be able to match a 15+ shooter in hit frequency. Regardless of how it is achieved...
(I debated with myself for several minutes whether or not I should even post this, because I am obviously salty over the event...)
I removed a comment of my own 48 hours ago that expressed similar and generalized frustration, over an entirely different matter. I'll give a brief synopsis of my impressions in very generalized terms:
The efficiency of the systems in 1.0 is generally better and a step forward from B18. I'm specifically referring to the "Wildlife" tab, the ability to cut and paste bills, the simplified caravan system, and the like.
The actual gameplay is another matter. Comparing 2200+ hours of B18 gameplay with (I'm estimating here) 100+ hours or so of 1.0 in it's various iterations - is feeling very much like "Death by 1000 Cuts": needlessly and annoyingly frustrating, with a worryingly imbalanced mid-game.
I have to restate my personal gameplay ethos here: I'll happily take 2 hours to re-load a single threat scenario, and re-play it until I feel that I have a grasp on how to approach things; in B18, I found that this paid dividends. In the game's current 1.0 state, I don't feel like that sense of "trial-and-error" is enjoyable on many levels nor paying dividends, and I'm personally feeling (and I'm reiterating that this is how things "feel" to me) that the game is in the process of changing from a "figure out how to use the tools provided, because there's a way to succeed" perspective towards a "guaranteed loss in the name of storytelling" outcome. A meaningful loss and sacrifice from a storytelling perspective is quite a different proposition from a meaningless loss, and all too often, I'm struggling to account for events that seem to be meaningless to me. These feelings are affecting my willingness to continue engaging with 1.0, and I was nowhere near a "burnout" phase with B18.
I know in advance that this will not be a popular sentiment, so I, too, hesitated in writing it. I'm well aware that 1.0 is in a development state, and that things are bound to change...and honestly, that's what keeps me playing right now, rather than enjoying the current experience. I hope to articulate specifics at some point, because criticism without offering viable suggestions is a waste of everyone's time...I just wanted to confirm that you are not alone in your feelings, at the moment.
Quote from: publicuser on July 19, 2018, 12:21:26 AM
killbox
That's impressive! And looks awesome, and would be quite fun to watch a couple times.
However.. Wasn't the point of most of the changes for the final release to really Nerf kill boxes? They don't seem as strong as they were, but still they are the go-to the majority of the time I read these posts. With traps being quite prominent. Generally in the form of zigzagging trap paths into a big kill box. You guys may enjoy it, but I find it gets rather boring without having to react to things very much.
Teleblaster, I would love to hear something specific that drives your impressions.
It's also important to account for the fact that every game gets boring eventually. So your feelings may just be based on the fact that you've played so much already.
2,000 hours on a game like this (or any game) is extremely exceptional; I consider it a decent success if a player hits 30 and a high success if they hit 100.
Scavenger - Never intended to prevent killboxes, they're an interesting and valid strategy, but they shouldn't be the only strategy is all.
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 04:35:28 AM
Visitors and traders choose less annoying spots to hang out.
How about you make us choose where they can hang out using something alike the marriage spot? Less hassle for you to program (I think) and gives us more direct control.
I find trap corridors eliminates about 50-70% of threats in 1.0. Which imo is just fine given how many raids the game throws at you. If I had to deal with 50 full on big threats before I have a fully established colony I'd get bored even faster.
Am starting a new colony and noticed that "Hunting Disabled" is on a lot of the backstories now, and it took me a minute to realize it causes "Incapable Of Violent". Is this intentional?
One of my pawns to choose from is Organ Farm Childhood (Hunting Disabled, No Violence) and Tactician Adulthood (+ Shooting, etc).
Actually, 4/8 of my random pawns to pick from are incapable of violent... It's one of the more crippling traits.
Quote from: Koek on July 19, 2018, 05:36:27 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 04:35:28 AM
Visitors and traders choose less annoying spots to hang out.
How about you make us choose where they can hang out using something alike the marriage spot? Less hassle for you to program (I think) and gives us more direct control.
One more thing to do here is that it costs the faction caravan spot recipe. They will not be able to easily change the upper operating point and prevent abuse.
And you need a dismiss feature to send the faction caravan out immediately.
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Scavenger - Never intended to prevent killboxes, they're an interesting and valid strategy, but they shouldn't be the only strategy is all.
Oh, I know! You just Nerf them, which you have done. It just seems that, while not the end-all-be-all every game, they seem to almost always be included.
Don't get me wrong, I think you should have a small one(some form of trap path) to some degree to soften them up a little before they get to you. But I mostly see ones that are like 3+ layer switch backs, which I think is a bit much lol. Every time I see the screen shots it just reminds me of a tower defense game.
Like that huge 2V1 battle in the field another guy linked not long back, that looked incredible! I love things like that, though I know they are hard to balance. It would be lovely if there were more chances to do that(have new battlefields you have to adjust to each time you fight, and just use the terrain as best you can with minimal preparation, perhaps just sand bags, if that), in my experience those are almost only ever seen during Caravan ambushes. Those kind of fights add another great strategy layer to the already fluid and strategic style of combat this game has!
Quote from: East on July 19, 2018, 05:44:31 AM
Quote from: Koek on July 19, 2018, 05:36:27 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 04:35:28 AM
Visitors and traders choose less annoying spots to hang out.
How about you make us choose where they can hang out using something alike the marriage spot? Less hassle for you to program (I think) and gives us more direct control.
One more thing to do here is that it costs the faction caravan spot recipe. They will not be able to easily change the upper operating point and prevent abuse.
And you need a dismiss feature to send the faction caravan out immediately.
Preventing abuse seems fair, but I'm not really concerned about that. I'd just love to designate a small part of my base for visitors to hang out but nothing as complicated as the hospitality mod. Just me wanting to control where visitors can go, just like I treat visitors in my own home.
A dismiss feature sounds handy though.
Some feedback regarding putting watermills behind research. At first I was disappointed to read that, but then as I played I realized it I actually prefer it that way. When they were available from the start I found myself only willing to settle on tiles with a largish river since they were just that good at the start, now they are still good but not a must have (understand I'm an old woman and I do play like one, so I like my gameplay on the easy side).
Rivers have the drawback of costing resources to bridge, and now the watermills seem like a decent counterbalance to that fact. Put them in the same column as solar seems fair to me as well.
I'm not 100% sure, but didn't graves show the buried corpse's name in a previous Alpha / Beta? It's just "Contains: human corpse" now, which seems weird, especially for buried colonists
Quote from: Scavenger on July 19, 2018, 05:55:53 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Scavenger - Never intended to prevent killboxes, they're an interesting and valid strategy, but they shouldn't be the only strategy is all.
Oh, I know! You just Nerf them, which you have done. It just seems that, while not the end-all-be-all every game, they seem to almost always be included.
Don't get me wrong, I think you should have a small one(some form of trap path) to some degree to soften them up a little before they get to you. But I mostly see ones that are like 3+ layer switch backs, which I think is a bit much lol. Every time I see the screen shots it just reminds me of a tower defense game.
That is what I think too. You rarely see "a bit" killbox. You see the people who just don't use them or the ones who play tower defence and never fight otherwise. I think killboxed should be useful in some cases and bad in other. So the optimal strategy is to adapt. Part of that is already done with melee raids. Fighting them in the open is hard since you get overrun really quick while at a chokepoint it is almost no challenge.
Regarding the centipedes: I never had problems with them in 1.0, I even think they are easier than in b18. They only tank a lot and live but I actually think that is a good way if it's not too much. They are slow but *if* they reach you, you are in trouble. Which is btw a good thing to the point above because they aren't just easily killable in killboxes and I guess part of the "too hard" reports come from that.
I noticed raider in general now have worse quality apparel and weapons. In early 1.0 there were occasional raiders with full excellent gear and now most of them wear some poor junk or even only 1 or 2 cloth pieces. I think this is good in general but the earlier version was nice diversity. Maybe add a new raid type "elite group" where there are only a few raiders but really well equipped and skilled. And modified that they die in downed or something like that so you can't just salvage them for the good equipment.
Btw: Thanks for reading and implementing a lot of my suggestions. I was happy to see the change with the visitor location after getting annoyed by it yesterday.
But centipede was patched yesterday. Now it's B18 HP. We need more time to confirm the centipede.
Bug: "Mental break: Jailbreaker". Pawn incited a prisoner to jailbreak, then ran off to hide in their room. Cool event. However, the pawn did NOT get the catharthis buff (which is a nightmare after hiding in their room, as they were exhausted, recreation deprived, and malnourished, for about -40... So an extreme mental break seems almost inevitable (except I think I'll dev mode a happiness buff equivalent to catharthis, since this feels like a bug.) Guessing this might be something to do with the fact this mental break 'double dips' through two break types instead of just one?
It was a very thematic break, I liked it a lot. I'm currently on a new colony as the one of the recent updates broke my save a bit too much. Randy/extreme naked start, currently with two extremely poorly equipped colonists trying desperately to house and feed themselves and two prisoners in a hot jungle environment. 17 days in and they haven't even started cooking (both have 0 cook). No food, everyone's starving... Makes sense she'd try to get rid of the prisoners one way or another. But Alyas was having none of it. Of course, now things have gone from bad to worse - there's a crazed Boomalope knocking on the door. Or maybe that's good news? Blood-rare Boomalope steaks will be on the menu tonight, I think...
EDIT:
p.s. this is the wrong place for this but... REALLY easy (I suspect) QoL improvement. Growing zones currently have a 'allow sowing' checkbox. Could we also have a 'allow harvesting' checkbox. This would massively reduce the micromanagement around farming (especially wood harvesting - you might notice in my screenshot that the entire area around the house is a growing zone (with sowing off), that's so the grower automatically harvests the trees when they hit 100%, and not before. But I have to frequently delete and recreate this zone, when I want the grower to focus on planting in the 'real' growing zones.)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Hmmm i wanted to save a colonist from raiders, until i realized early game is impossible on harder difficulties (playing with tribes); enemies skill is average of 10 shooting/melee with steel helmets and flak jackets/vest (not sure if it's due to the last updates, but enemies raids are way more hard) **Phoebe hard**
[attachment deleted due to age]
My caravan was ambushed by one pirate, which was laughable.
I stopped laughing when I realized that my guys spawned on top of an insect hive, this really needs to not happen.
Quote from: Bingo on July 19, 2018, 06:35:55 AM
I'm not 100% sure, but didn't graves show the buried corpse's name in a previous Alpha / Beta? It's just "Contains: human corpse" now, which seems weird, especially for buried colonists
It's just a bug, we're gonna fix it but more critical stuff comes first.
I just wanted to bring up an issue that has been mentioned many times, but I'll chime in again with the same comment.
I find the chemical and pyro traits completely frustrating. There is no story I enjoy here.
You don't manage this story, you can't change it, you can't improve the outcome, you just wait for them to do their annoying thing and then clean up the mess. (Perhaps that is the intent?)
I've let both types in while testing 1.0 and every single time it has been nothing but annoying. Pyros start fires regardless of how you manage them and as long as it isn't during a raid, you're probably fine.
Mine decided the best time to start a fire was during a raid and the best thing to light on fire was chemfuel in my best warehouse. He survived, at least until I banished him, everything else in the warehouse, bionics included, did not.
He was in perfect health, high morale, everything in the colony going great. Perhaps if it was my mistake, I'd let him become unhappy, stuck him in a room that was ugly, his dog died, I could see it coming, maybe that might be interesting. "Oh, I have to watch closely, he might start a fire." That's a story that I might find interesting.
But right now, it is not a story I enjoy. It's a 100% chance that something bad will happen eventually and there is no way to mitigate that chance. It's not enjoyable, and as soon as 1.0 is final, I'll be back to ignoring colonists with this trait again.
Chemical interest / fascination. Again, not a story I enjoy. Just a 100% chance of them finding and abusing drugs after you put time and effort into including them in the colony. In my latest game, wake-up was the drug of choice, dropped from raiders and taken before I could clean it up. Addicted on the first hit every time. I cleaned up what I thought was all of it, missed a dropped forbidden stash that dropped off a raider that died near the edge of the map and she found it again and again, first hit, addicted.
Both times she was perfectly health and in great spirits, but hey, why not, lets go find random drugs, take them and suffer. There is no enjoyable story here, just a 100% chance off a bad outcome. Again, if it was something I played some part in, maybe. "Oh, my mistake, I let her stay unhappy for too long, of course she went and found drugs ..."
But it's not that, so again, same thing. Once 1.0 is final, I would see no reason to keep any colonist with the Chemical trait.
I guess while writing and editing this, I found my own answer. Perhaps the intent is you don't get to manage these stories, you always get the bad outcome and have to deal with it. You have no input, you can't change it, you only get to pick up the pieces. It's a pretty negative and annoying story if that's the case.
Grammatical error in shoot frenzy message:
"Her shoot more accurately for the next 8 days"
1) Clicked to world map, got out of memory error then this. Game then crashed (failed to save) during a save-and-quit. This is running the x64 version, so it's a bit unexpected. Possibly a new memory leak in the latest patch?
2) Play experience: Toxic Fallout might be a bit extreme for tiny colonies. Day 21, only 2 colonists, still foraging for food. That's why I was clicking to the world map - I was about to have them pick up whatever they could carry, and rebuild on a neighbouring hex, to escape the fallout. But the game crash has a silver lining - as it failed to save, time has reverted to prior to the toxic fallout starting.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 19, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
I find the chemical and pyro traits completely frustrating. There is no story I enjoy here.
I do agree on this. If both these traits were managable in some way, like pyro only burning stuff on a mental break or when he has not seen a fire in a long time, which could be solved by always having a campfire going or something like this, I would actually consider recruiting them.
For the chemical traits, perhaps putting them on a schedule AND keeping their mood up could mitigate the binging somehow. Or have the binging as a mental break only, with a higher chance than normal to break.
As it is now I simply patch them up and kick them out, unless I need an emergency organ or something.
I do love the story aspect of this game, but like you said, some things just don't add to it especially when you already know the outcome.
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 19, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
Chemical interest / fascination. Again, not a story I enjoy. Just a 100% chance of them finding and abusing drugs after you put time and effort into including them in the colony. In my latest game, wake-up was the drug of choice, dropped from raiders and taken before I could clean it up. Addicted on the first hit every time.
It's strange, wake-up shouldn't be addictive on the first hit unless something changed. It should be safe to use it once in 3 days, as in B18. In one 1.0 colony I had a drug policy with 1 wake-up per 3 days for my crafters to boost them up a bit and had no issue with that. Never had anyone, chemical fascinated or not, addicted to it after one use (unlike go-juice or yayo).
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 19, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
Both times she was perfectly health and in great spirits, but hey, why not, lets go find random drugs, take them and suffer. Again, if it was something I played some part in, maybe. "Oh, my mistake, I let her stay unhappy for too long, of course she went and found drugs ..."
That's a story that can happen with
any colonist on low mood. That one on the other hand is fascinated with chemical sources of enjoyment, it's
part of his personality, unlike normal pawns he just wants it, anytime, not just when he is stressed.
It's a negative trait, it means it has some risks going with it if you accept the pawn, it's a trade-off. Pawn being depressing, or abrasive, or slothful don't depend on your decisions either, other than your decision to allow them in and try to go with it or send away.
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 19, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
I guess while writing and editing this, I found my own answer. Perhaps the intent is you don't get to manage these stories, you always get the bad outcome and have to deal with it. You have no input, you can't change it, you only get to pick up the pieces. It's a pretty negative and annoying story if that's the case.
How come no input? Arrest them, beat them, kill them.
Not very interesting error. Rescued member of a faction got up while a pawn was tasked with tending them.
Could not reserve Thing_Human98911 (layer: null) for Trudy for job TendPatient (Job_543399) A=Thing_Human98911 (now doing job TendPatient (Job_543399) A=Thing_Human98911(curToil=-1)) for maxPawns 1 and stackCount -1. Existing reserver: Alyas doing job Rescue (Job_543398) A=Thing_Human98911 B=Thing_SleepingSpot109259 (toilIndex=1)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:LogCouldNotReserveError(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:638)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:Reserve(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:332)
Verse.AI.ReservationUtility:Reserve(Pawn, LocalTargetInfo, Job, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationUtility.cs:40)
RimWorld.JobDriver_TendPatient:TryMakePreToilReservations() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\AI\JobDrivers\Heal\JobDriver_TendPatient.cs:39)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:268)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.Pawn_HealthTracker:MakeUndowned() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_HealthTracker.cs:583)
Verse.Pawn_HealthTracker:CheckForStateChange(Nullable`1, Hediff) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_HealthTracker.cs:378)
Verse.Pawn_HealthTracker:Notify_HediffChanged(Hediff) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_HealthTracker.cs:130)
Verse.Hediff_Injury:Heal(Single) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Health\Hediff\Hediff_Injury.cs:191)
Verse.Pawn_HealthTracker:HealthTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_HealthTracker.cs:738)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:573)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:505)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
dogthinker - did it cause any visible problems?
Quote from: Sirinox on July 19, 2018, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 19, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
I guess while writing and editing this, I found my own answer. Perhaps the intent is you don't get to manage these stories, you always get the bad outcome and have to deal with it. You have no input, you can't change it, you only get to pick up the pieces. It's a pretty negative and annoying story if that's the case.
How come no input? Arrest them, beat them, kill them.
If there was a decent chance that I could actually arrest someone without violence (most criminals confronted with armed police/security guards will surrender in real life) I would be far more willing to incorporate high break risk people into my colonies. But when the only option is to damage them until they can't walk any more, at great risk of permanent injuries, I'd much rather just not have them in my colony to begin with.
I think the *risk* of a pawn refusing to surrender quietly is a great thing for a story generator. Having it as a guaranteed behavior makes that whole situation not fun for me. I want to run a colony of decent people trying to survive together, not some dystopian gulag where the colonist's character weaknesses can only be addressed by violence.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 19, 2018, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 19, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
Chemical interest / fascination. Again, not a story I enjoy. Just a 100% chance of them finding and abusing drugs after you put time and effort into including them in the colony. In my latest game, wake-up was the drug of choice, dropped from raiders and taken before I could clean it up. Addicted on the first hit every time.
It's strange, wake-up shouldn't be addictive on the first hit unless something changed. It should be safe to use it once in 3 days, as in B18. In one 1.0 colony I had a drug policy with 1 wake-up per 3 days for my crafters to boost them up a bit and had no issue with that. Never had anyone, chemical fascinated or not, addicted to it after one use (unlike go-juice or yayo).
My bad, it was go-juice she found both times. Immediate addiction.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 19, 2018, 09:30:52 AM
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 19, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
I guess while writing and editing this, I found my own answer. Perhaps the intent is you don't get to manage these stories, you always get the bad outcome and have to deal with it. You have no input, you can't change it, you only get to pick up the pieces. It's a pretty negative and annoying story if that's the case.
How come no input? Arrest them, beat them, kill them.
The input you mention is only after the fact, I'm picking up the pieces of a what I consider a very negative story that I had no way to prevent. To me, it's a bunch of small failures that pretty much make me want to throw up my hands and never finish a game.
I consider it a failure when a colonists get addicted and an incredibly frustrating failure because there was virtually nothing I could do to prevent it other than reload and clean up the drugs before she had a chance to get at them. And I play on commitment most often now, so that's not really an option.
You only get to pick up the pieces of failure with these traits. You have no way to prevent it from happening in the first place. Pyro *will* start fires. Chemical *will* find drugs. They will rush across the map right after a raid and pick up dropped drugs to make it happen.
I noticed that during the time one of colonists had Malaria the severity of the disease actually went down. Find it very strange. Also the immunity gain speed of the colonist is 117% while in bed.
Self removing Malaria (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zspeiu43kmc16mn/MalariaGoingDown.jpg?dl=1)
Feedback on the updated armor rating description: it is clear and it maches bbqftw's formula. bbqftw's conclusions are also correct: one good piece of armor is indeed better than multiple layers of weak armor.
On another topic: is it possible to tone down the frequency of the "mad animal" incident? I get it quite often and it's not particularly difficult to deal with, making it more of an annoyance than a challenge.
The mad animal instance needs to be changed according to biome. Current desert playthrough has like 4 camels, 3 boomalopes and 2 little scarabs. On a jungle or forest, it's no big deal but one with little animals means that I'm just eying that boomalope to come over and make a mess of things.
I feel that what Rimworld needs is a budget-based based pawn generation system.
During pawn generation, there would be a budget for skill levels, passions, good traits. Incapacities, bad traits, poor health and old age would increase the budget instead. After adding traits and any incapacities, the system would then assign skills and passions taking into account the backstory.
This would ensure that pawns that are bad in some way are also guaranteed to be good in some other way. The size of the budget could be the same for all pawns (extremes are impossible), or follow a normal distribution (most pawns are average, a few are very good or very bad).
I also feel that "incapable of" should not prevent the respective activities, just result in a mood loss. Nobody would prefer to watch the colony burn down rather than do firefighting, or eat corpses rather than doing some butchering and cooking, or see their friends die rather than tend their wounds.
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 09:59:17 AM
dogthinker - did it cause any visible problems?
No, the rescue-pawn self tended, and my doctor turned around and got on with her day.
On play experience, there might be a bit of an ugly interaction between the new recruit mechanic (resistance) and the storytellers trying to 'be nice' to tiny colonies. I've had 3 escape pods in 3 days (and one more a few days prior). It could be randy-being-randy, but it feels like the storyteller is trying to give me more colonists (since I still only have 2, and the colony is in poverty, at 23 days). However, the rescues and prisoners are just piling up.
I'm also only getting 0.5% chances to recruit a 67% difficulty, happy, prisoner. The warden only has 5 social, but still, that feels too low. Maybe the percentages need to be adjusted upwards a bit, given there's the enforced delay of pushing through the resistances. I've had this prisoner for 18 days already, I don't think I've ever had a 67% difficulty prisoner take even remotely that long before, and I guess it's going to take a couple more seasons at this rate.
edit: levelled up to 6 social... 0.58% chance. I feel like it ought to be about 10x that for such an easy prisoner.
And, one more time on the chemical and pyro stuff. After walking away I realized I really offered no solution, so here's what I would consider a solution:
For chemical traits, you either provide them an outlet for their chemical desire or their desire for an outlet overwhelms them until they binge on anything they can get their hands on. I never craft drugs or brew beer in my games. I don't like the binge aspect of the chemical traits so I simply avoid it all together, however, if there were a valid reason for me to do so, I'd happily keep my chemically fascinated colonists in check by using the tools already in the game to provide a non-addictive or slightly addictive outlet rather than have the random "I'm going to binge on this incredibly addictive thing and there is nothing you can about it" behavior.
For pyro, something along the same lines. There's a campfire, go do things over the fire. Not getting enough of that, go burn down my buildings and shame on me for not noticing your desire to play with fire.
... and that's all I have to say about that ...
This single sentence is a hell of a divider considering the calculations:
In the case of apparel armor, each layer of apparel applies its armor to the attack separately, from the outside in.
This means that a huge amount of attacks will simply go through 100% if you have any apparel other than clothing that is not made of middle-high quality, such as devilstrand or hyperweave. Cloth for instance is now technically useless as means of protection. 10% armor previously could mean the difference between life and death when any attack was targetted at high-HP parts, such as the torso; 40 HP becoming 44 HP would mean your character can live or die. 10% armor now means this: any attack that deals damage higher than 6 technically ignores it completely. Which is a huge majority of any attacks that can bring any threat to your pawns. This is huge.
Now, if this is balanced or "fair", I'm not sure yet, but its very weird that if you have three apparels that have 7% armor are as effective as one single apparel with 7% armor against any damage higher than 5 (unless armor penetration values are customized, which its not the case with the majority of attacks, especially those made by animals). I'm not saying that armor should be added incrementally, but some sort of middle-ground could solve this crucial point. Something like 50%/25% for incremental values over the biggest armor values could mean that yes, that cloth t-shirt can mean the smallest, but crucial difference in that raid.
So in the example I've suggested, here's how it would work:
Today: Engie is wearing a normal flak vest, excellent chinchilla fur T-shirt and normal foxfur duster. The armor values of the apparel for Sharp damage are, respectively, 45%, 6% and 9%. For defenses against Sharp damage at her torso, if the attack has 7 damage or more (~10% AP), both the T-shirt and the duster are completely nullified, and it would make no sense for Engie to wear those two apparel in any combat situation. However, the flak vest will completely deflect ~17%, and halve damage/convert into blunt ~17%.
Suggested: Engie is wearing a normal flak vest, excellent chinchilla fur T-shirt and normal foxfur duster. The armor values of the apparel for Sharp damage are, respectively, 45%, 6% and 9%. For defenses against Sharp damage at her torso, the order of most to least protective values are: 45%, 9% and 6%. The total protection value for Engie's torso against Sharp damage is 50.5% (45% + (9%/2) + (6%/4)).
In regards to Chemical Interest, Chemical Fascination, and Pyromaniac traits, and the usability thereof:
I have, in the past (pre 1.0), done three separate runs of the game, in each run, one of the above mentioned traits was forced onto all pawns by the scenario editor. Of those runs, only the Pyromaniac one was doomed from the beginning, as they cannot fight fire. I managed to make it 73 days with the pyro-colony anyway, because I started in a rainforest, and built largely out of stone, (and I gave myself the perk of starting with firefoam popper research), but eventually I got a mechanoid raid with too many incendiary centipedes to handle. In both of the chemical-colonies, I intentionally explored drugs as a profit-creating enterprise. I did find that if I dabbled in anything stronger than smokeleaf and alcohol, everything went badly, but I could manage a smokeleaf and alcohol producign colony. The trick is to A. not care that your pawns have two addictions, as long as you can keep the addictions fed, and B. alternate smokeleaf with alcohol, instead of producing both. I went with 30 days of major smokeleaf production, 30 days of major alcohol production. If you tell all the pawns to take a bunch of drugs into inventory, those drugs are not available for others to binge, while still allowing pawns to maintain addictions in the off season for that drug. I very much recommend these and similar play-throughs for experienced Rimworld players, as it forces you to learn new tactics and keeps the game interesting. I did a similar game with forced Brawler trait, and it gave me much more appreciation for melee.
In regards to NPC trader caravans and where they park:
I haven't checked out the changes from the latest build yet, but I did some thinking about where I want traders to hang out, assuming I have no intentions of exploiting them or subjecting them to harm. I think, generally speaking, I always want them to hang out in or adjacent to my main storage stockpile, both for ease of storing the goods I buy, and because it is usually a large enough area that they don't wander into bedrooms or clean rooms. It would be interesting if instead of trying to park just outside your colony, they tried to park on top of your largest stockpile, or maybe your largest stockpile that can contain stuff in which they are interested. It would make sense from a verisimilitude perspective as well, because they might logically wish to be near the stuff you might sell them, and it would help disguise the instant disappearance of items you sell to caravans. Just my two cents.
In regards to high penalty psychic drones:
I have done some testing with this (in build 1967), and found it very reasonably counter-able by sendign out a trade caravan, and having enough psychic foil helmets on hand for everyone who doesn't go. I do wish psychic foil helmets were craft-able, or that the simple helmet at least got its 10% psychic resistance back, but as they don't happen terribly often (on Cassandra Hard anyway), it isn't the unavoidable colony-crushing incident that some seem to be complaining about.
I disagree strongly with those who are saying that general game difficulty shouldn't scale with wealth, and I think that those people have never considered it from a game development standpoint before. If some items add a ton of wealth without adding enough benefit, maybe that needs balance tuning, but also, maybe it isn't reasonable to have a colony full of golden beds and artwork on a rim world. The game needs to have difficulty calibrated for the early and mid game more than the extreme late game (especially for colonies that could certainly have 'won' already if the player wanted), as the typical player (read: players with much less than 200 hours in the game) will experience the early and mid game many more times than they will experience the late game, due to colony failures.
Chemicals and Pyro can all be dealt with in some way. Unless your only nonviolent (who is also a pyro) is hanging out in base and pops in the middle of the raid you can spare someone to keep them from exploding something. In general I like to keep them close at hand during a raid anyway to rescue or distract. Chemical Interest usually doesn't addict right away, giving you time to react, and Chemical Fascination drugs can be boarded up unless you are relying on a Flake Eco. (Don't get me wrong I tend to ignore CF pawns until I get to a second base, but they aren't useless)
Mostly I think pawns attacking explosives in general is BS. "I ate without a table so I'm gonna go beat up these High Explosive mortar shells!" No scenarios in this game justifies going full Grimey...
Quote from: Sirsir on July 19, 2018, 10:59:43 AM
Chemical Interest usually doesn't addict right away, giving you time to react, and Chemical Fascination drugs can be boarded up unless you are relying on a Flake Eco. (Don't get me wrong I tend to ignore CF pawns until I get to a second base, but they aren't useless)
I posted because that specifically wasn't the case, my chem colonist went right at the addictive stuff twice in a row and was addicted first hit. And both times, when you can least prevent it, drugs dropping from raiders before you even think to clean them up ... fight was done, toggle draft, oh, great, she's addicted. She made a beeline for the drugs and took them ... maybe that "i want to binge" state sticks around and just waits to be fulfilled and will do so as soon as the opportunity is presented, or maybe I was incredibly unlucky.
I think what I read from Tass237 is that if I'd have kept her addicted to two other things, then maybe she wouldn't have immediately gone for the drugs that dropped. Sort of what I suggested in my solution post, I'd never tried that, but it is certainly a bit more aggressive than I'd prefer I guess.
i think traders should target more towards colony gather spots or center of home zone - they still love to hang out on the edge of map in my colony
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: dogthinker on July 19, 2018, 07:34:29 AM
EDIT:
p.s. this is the wrong place for this but... REALLY easy (I suspect) QoL improvement. Growing zones currently have a 'allow sowing' checkbox. Could we also have a 'allow harvesting' checkbox. This would massively reduce the micromanagement around farming (especially wood harvesting - you might notice in my screenshot that the entire area around the house is a growing zone (with sowing off), that's so the grower automatically harvests the trees when they hit 100%, and not before. But I have to frequently delete and recreate this zone, when I want the grower to focus on planting in the 'real' growing zones.)
I would love something similar, but not quite the same. I'd like to be able to forbid cutting plants when sowing, because then I'd be able to rotate crops efficiently.
For example, right now I have hops growing on a small plot and have it set to healroot with sowing forbidden. I have to watch the plot until the hops have finished growing and then turn sowing back on.
It would be amazing if I could set it to healroot and my pawns would harvest the fully grown hops and then plant healroot in the emptied spot instead of either sowing nothing or clear-cutting the hops whether they're ready to harvest or not.
Ideally, I would like to be able to designate a trading spot/zone. I don't think it's going to be very easy at all for Tynan to try to bake in logic that makes the traders pick a reasonable spot on all/most maps/bases. There's just too much variability.
Instead, to discourage using this feature to ambush traders with impunity, perhaps the cost to buy faction goodwill should increase with each faction member's death and the bonus from releasing a faction member unharmed should decrease with each member's death. So once you're on good terms with a faction, you have to keep it that way or eventually you'll have no mechanism for winning them over again. If you ambush and slaughter a caravan you get the spoils, but you'll have to spend a fortune to regain their good will, and if you keep doing it they'll be permanently hostile and you won't get caravans from them any more.
for picking trade spot, there's a mod for that - it's easy to abuse though.
Having dedicated 'Trade monument' that takes long time to deconstruct might have some sense in it.
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 01:34:22 AM
Regarding chemical interest, a pawn at 50 mood will have a drug binge randomly once per 50 days. So slightly more than once per year.
With chemical fascination, it's once per 25 days.
Unless there's a bug, of course. Also, the chance is higher at low mood and lower at high mood. In future I want the game to report the cause of mental breaks so it's clearer what's going on.
Hey Tynan thanks. He was at high mood so apart from the first break which I think was the random one triggering when drugs showed up. I'll start a new run and see how interest/fascination goes this time. I'll post my drug colony when I'm done.
Enjoying 1.0 so far, nearing end-game on a Cassandra Rough save. Just ran into a bug - had a pawn develop two simultaneous instances of the flu (second very shortly after immunity was gained on the first instance, both gained during a caravan trip).
https://imgur.com/a/zv9JDPL
Centipedes are still really rough. It's a bit off-putting that the only thing I care about is how many centipedes are in the raid. Sycthers and lancers I can handle just fine.
I had a 5 centipede psychic ship and called in help. They sent 5 guys, two with knives, two with pump shotguns and 1 with a grenade. None with armor. Needless to say they didn't accomplish much.
Then as I was regrouping for round 2 and trying to pelt the enemy with mortars, I got a random friendlies event. They sent 38 people. 38 people.
(https://i.imgur.com/dwXWkVS.jpg)
So it seems like requesting military aid is completely useless, but the random friendlies event is just insane.
Tribal Start -- Cass Extreme "Commitment Mode"
Started in .1968
Images included. This has felt a bit ridiculous. Raid, Disease, Raid, Raid before the first season passes. I love getting my face caved in but, damn.
To frame it a bit better, the last raid (only 2 days before,) was nothing but grenades and molotovs, to add insult to injury. -_-' Btw, this type of raid has been much too common, for the last 2-3 versions. And, very early in games ... Is that intended??
Also, it's of note that the previous raid _does not show up on the adaptation graph_. Unless I'm missing something, a message exists showing the raid but, the graph does not seem to recognize that the raid occurred. ???
Addendum: I loaded the game back up and actually started to handle the new raid, only to notice that the MOTHER of one of my colonists is in it. Now, wouldn't a _mother_ of all people just say, "Screw it, that's my child. No loyalties stronger." If not -- ye gods! these moms on the Rimworlds D:
Btw, this raid killed me. It seems like the adaptation graph may, indeed, be missing data points. I'd expect this last raid to be an entirely normal occurrence if not for the prior "rush & burn" raid ...
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 04:35:28 AM
Reduce centipede armor
YES. Now for Melee Scythers, who now have more sharp armor than centipedes :P
I did some quick testing and Scythers seem to insta-die to autocannons, but shrug off pawn bullets quite a bit (my pawns use assault rifles, snipers, two miniguns, and a charge lance). Not sure what I'd do about the autocannons, but I would obviously suggest less sharp armor but more health.
I think I found a bug, apparently some of my prisoners are now engaged to eachother. Is this actually supposed to be possible or is this something yet unfixed? I'm not sure whether anyone has mentioned this before but I don't feel like checking out the entire thread :p
Not sure why it would be a bug. Prisoners can socialize which makes sense, and becoming lovers or marrying are just social interactions.
Quote from: dogthinker on July 19, 2018, 10:31:13 AM
I'm also only getting 0.5% chances to recruit a 67% difficulty, happy, prisoner. The warden only has 5 social, but still, that feels too low. Maybe the percentages need to be adjusted upwards a bit, given there's the enforced delay of pushing through the resistances. I've had this prisoner for 18 days already, I don't think I've ever had a 67% difficulty prisoner take even remotely that long before, and I guess it's going to take a couple more seasons at this rate.
edit: levelled up to 6 social... 0.58% chance. I feel like it ought to be about 10x that for such an easy prisoner.
I (finally) registered here just to mention the same issue. My latest 1.0 colony (created in 1.0.1968) has two prisoners that have less than a 1% chance to recruit with a warden with 9 social even though the prisoners are only 62% and 72% difficulty, respectively. I had a third prisoner that I was only able to successfully recruit after getting the inspired recruiter 100% chance buff. If the chance to recruit is 0.7% this suggests an
average of 143 attempts before success, which seems excessive. I don't recall it ever being this bad before, and I can't imagine how long a 99%-er would take!
I also had two of my prisoners fall in love and even get engaged. Not sure if I should build a double-bed in my prison!
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 19, 2018, 01:03:32 PM
Centipedes are still really rough. It's a bit off-putting that the only thing I care about is how many centipedes are in the raid. Sycthers and lancers I can handle just fine.
I had a 5 centipede psychic ship and called in help. They sent 5 guys, two with knives, two with pump shotguns and 1 with a grenade. None with armor. Needless to say they didn't accomplish much.
Then as I was regrouping for round 2 and trying to pelt the enemy with mortars, I got a random friendlies event. They sent 38 people. 38 people.
For me opposite, centipedes are easy to kill with kiting and/or good positioning of pawns. Scythers on the other hand, make my excellent-full-plate-armoured pawns limbs flying either with charge lances or with their blades...
Btw. after last patch i think Randy finally woke up and gave me some meaningful events finally, because till that time it was boring (literally no raids/ships) on Randy Hard
Today I started several naked brutality games in different biomes to check, and in two of the attemps I got the catatonic breakdown mental break, which was instant game over. I was thinking that perhaps it could be reserved for states of extreme mental break chance, because in one of the occasions I don't think it was major even. Or perhaps lower the chance of that particular mental break happening when you have only one colonist, because It was quite annoying having to set up the game again just for that.
If a meteor landed on the pawn it would be unlucky but still would make up for a good story, but a catatonic breakdown until death by starvation for no major situations like raw cannibalism and so feels wrong, even in extreme (was extreme). But maybe it is just my perception of the matter.
I still would like to see Social-drama causes being made more severe, maybe that people get a Social opinion debuff from things like, other people mutilating a bodypart(breaking it) in say, a fist fight where one breaks their finger.
And I still haven't seen a review in the Opinion system you mentioned, is that planned for later or?? I have never ever seen 'Started social fight, Reason: Butchered Humanlike' or anything like that. Shouldn't it be a bigger factor that people are actually outcast savage brutes? Instead of a meek -10 from human butchery, it should be -35, eating human flesh should be -25, and organ harvest is -15 that stacks up to 3 times.
I haven't seen murderous rage much around that really prioritize killing people (Maybe it's luck. Don't take it as a serious complaint). Maybe there is a rare variant for Social-fights (That are like at, -80 opinion) it will instantly trigger a murderous rage against that person which becomes a fight to the death unless stopped with an arrest attempt.
EDIT: Oh and, how come you don't see the Ancient Soldier enemies a whole ton, armor is revamped a lot, but you rarely find enemies who uses it so you can easily gun them down. Maybe there is a sort of Ancient Soldier raid that can happen, mostly with drop pods.
How do you handle the problem of your pawns literally starving to death before they can burn through 11 centipede's health bars?
Lest you think I'm being hyperbolic:
(https://i.imgur.com/Rg4ehdw.jpg)
The reactive slow-down speed changes are making me want to punch a baby. Sitting and watching any events that cause this, go on long-term, is painful. Please, give us an "override" option to speed up combat and negative events if we so choose.
Or, just allow the speed to go to whichever we manually choose (I mean, we chose it right? Can't get upset if something bad happens.) We used to be able to speed it back up after a short, set period -- regardless of dangers. This is missed.
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 01:34:22 AM
Regarding chemical interest, a pawn at 50 mood will have a drug binge randomly once per 50 days. So slightly more than once per year.
With chemical fascination, it's once per 25 days.
Unless there's a bug, of course. Also, the chance is higher at low mood and lower at high mood. In future I want the game to report the cause of mental breaks so it's clearer what's going on.
I know you made some changes in the last built, I just want to add that this wasn't my experience. It isn't uncommon for my chemical fascinated pawn to go into a drug binge 1 or 2 days after the last one (see images), I can't put it in a single screenshot but it had 3 binges in the span of 6 days once. I don't remember the pawn's mood at the time, it's usually over 50 but I can't say at the moment of the mental break.
[attachment deleted due to age]
i don't have that kind of op raids yet, but fighting in a choke-point, having 3 guys with emp granades/emp mortars, and rest with normal ones usually solves problem (no loot though)
Quote from: gadjung on July 19, 2018, 03:35:30 PM
i don't have that kind of op raids yet, but fighting in a choke-point, having 3 guys with emp granades/emp mortars, and rest with normal ones usually solves problem (no loot though)
Tried that, doesn't work. Even with 6 pawns firing with pulse weapons and 2 spears they adapt and go EMP immune. The one behind the one in the choke fires at the melee from behind the one at the choke. Eventually the melee go down even fighting 2v1. And the fight takes so long that everyone's food, rest, and recreation goes to 0 and the break.
I did manage to win, barely, because I got insanely lucky and 2 centipedes died to traps. Half of them I managed to kite around and the others I just let wreck my base while I waited for the ranged to finish off the ones they were kiting. Then it was a rough battle in the middle of my colony but I won again because I got lucky and the one inferno cannon centipede left didn't get any shots that landed before I focused it down.
I don't think there is a way to handle it consistently short of a ton of turrets, but I'm trying to avoid doing that.
Only Charge Lances can reliably (and even then, centipedes will ding ~15% of the shots) pierce the centipedes' armor. Scythers have very close armor values, but their HP is only a fraction, so people don't feel the battle lingering too much against them. Either Tynan needs to tinker around armor penetration values for some weapons or their armor will ding a lot of the shots. Danny's stats show now that longswords are the best weapons post-new internals, and maces are not as viable, still. A warhammer/sledgehammer of sorts that can deal immense damage with a long cooldown could solve this, penetrating by default the armor more reliably.
+1 Never use pyros or chem-int/fasc. Their market value is the same as a pristine pawn, but they have no upside to balance their massive negative trait. One random break at an inconvenient time can wreck you. No reason to develop and equip them when the pyro will die by blowing up a mortar shell, and the chem-int/fasc will get banished when you get tired of drying them out, or they get brain damage.
Many of the negative traits are like this. There's no reason to tolerate flawed pawns once you find better ones. It's fun to prune your colony to fit your vision of a master race, but I'm not sure if that's intended.
I like the idea of traits being balanced, like how 'sickly' gives the pawn better medical. The pyros and junkies might be worth it without the high mood breaks, and special powers. :)
Pyro - Immune to fire stagger. +X% accuracy with fire weapons.
Chem Int. - Improved resistance to tolerance and addiction. Manufacture drugs faster.
Yeah, I'd have to say that Centipedes are still way too durable: especially in melee. On Darg's Dregs, I just got a Poison Ship w/ four Centipedes, two lancers and one scyther. The Lancers/Scythers together managed to tank 20-some Steel Deadfall Traps, but I managed to lure one of the Centipedes into a solo engagement w/ one power-armored melee pawn (Melee 14, Excellent Steel Longsword, Masterwork Power Armor Helmet, Good Power Armor), backed up by a Chain Shotgun (Shooting Skill 10, Excellent Chain Shotgun, Bionic Arm) at point blank range. The one(!) centipede managed to walk right through the remaining 2 Steel Traps, down the Power Armor pawn, and still get a Minigun volley off at the Chain Shotgun pawn before finally going down. I ended up going back to good-old door kiting to take out the other centipedes, because that was still the best option.
A centipede should never be capable of taking on two fully-equipped lategame pawns when it's locked down in melee. Otherwise, you're basically forcing the player to use mass Autocannons, which is both 1: counter to the current design idea of expanding tactical options and 2: forcing yet another steel tax onto the player. I invested 190 Plasteel, 5 Advanced Components and 10 regular components (not counting the cloth and steel involved in full Flak for the shotgun pawn) in order to take down one(!) centipede.
Game is not enjoyable at all on Extreme now, recruitment is super hard, eye scars anyone ? brain damage anyone ?, run wild cause of darkness ?, slaughter ?, food poisoning simulator ? :(
Regarding chemical fascination guys, it's counterintuitive although very thematic, but I've actually found an insanely good use for them: many of the threats you face on caravan sites are all melee, so if you down some go-juice you can take everything out very easily before you get bionics. Normally a bad idea for a pawn you care about in the long term, but this is great for someone you're just going to banish after a certain point anyways.
Quote from: Dargaron on July 19, 2018, 04:30:45 PM
Yeah, I'd have to say that Centipedes are still way too durable: especially in melee. On Darg's Dregs, I just got a Poison Ship w/ four Centipedes, two lancers and one scyther. The Lancers/Scythers together managed to tank 20-some Steel Deadfall Traps, but I managed to lure one of the Centipedes into a solo engagement w/ one power-armored melee pawn (Melee 14, Excellent Steel Longsword, Masterwork Power Armor Helmet, Good Power Armor), backed up by a Chain Shotgun (Shooting Skill 10, Excellent Chain Shotgun, Bionic Arm) at point blank range. The one(!) centipede managed to walk right through the remaining 2 Steel Traps, down the Power Armor pawn, and still get a Minigun volley off at the Chain Shotgun pawn before finally going down. I ended up going back to good-old door kiting to take out the other centipedes, because that was still the best option.
A centipede should never be capable of taking on two fully-equipped lategame pawns when it's locked down in melee. Otherwise, you're basically forcing the player to use mass Autocannons, which is both 1: counter to the current design idea of expanding tactical options and 2: forcing yet another steel tax onto the player. I invested 190 Plasteel, 5 Advanced Components and 10 regular components (not counting the cloth and steel involved in full Flak for the shotgun pawn) in order to take down one(!) centipede.
Why shouldn't they? Aren't they like crawling tanks? Large, heavy and slow plasteel armored heavy war machines. Why should they be reliably downed with just two pawns fighting them in such straightforward way? I recall in earlier versions to fight them unstunned in melee with even larger squad was a way to get at least few casualties.
Even their description mentions that they are vulnerable to
mobile hit-and-run tactics, not to be casually downed by two armored pawns.
I suggest instead of massing autocannons you supposed to stun and/or outrange them.
I don't deal with pyros, the chemical thing it really depends on stats. My issue is you can't lock them out of the drug stash, I'd be fine if they had to break down a wall or door to get to drugs but as it stands they can access the stash at will.
Re: centipedes. Well in previous versions they also had 2 weaknesses: slower movement and they got seriously shredded by explosions. So early game it was easier to pot shot them, and late game you could go to town on them with your rocket launchers or grenades. Both are still an option, just not quite as good anymore.
Quote from: Kalre on July 19, 2018, 04:33:53 PM
Game is not enjoyable at all on Extreme now, recruitment is super hard, eye scars anyone ? brain damage anyone ?, run wild cause of darkness ?, slaughter ?, food poisoning simulator ? :(
I can somewhat agree. Last several runs have been ... interesting. Slaughterer mental break is way too common. Lost all my animals, multiple times. I finally started beating the breakee down (chancing permanent damage and death, each time.) Eye scars have been common. Recruitment is a joke -- 99%, anyone? Does another percentage even exist? ::) Run wild is very difficult to manage, in some games. Didn't grab a real Handler? Well, you may have just permanently lost a colonist (probably to a minor break :o )
Food poisoning can get out of hand but, I do find that keeping the kitchen very clean prevents much of this. The slaughterer and Murder mental breaks are very different with this not-so-interesting thing where they ignore anyone attacking them -- to get to their target. Lost an animal while beating the pawn down. Had a pawn nearly beat his Murder target to death ... while getting pummeled by the rest of the pawns.
It's just ... I love Extreme. Love it. Love the challenge and the brutality. However, there are several factors that I no longer feel I have control over or simply cannot withstand (with every bit of planning and shoring up weaknesses.) These don't tend to create stories but, slaughter my colonies outright.
I don't know what should change, though ... it's a delicate balance. I do feel that 'Extreme' is as close to perfect as it's ever been. Only minor adjustments would be necessary (if at all -- maybe I just need to 'git good' :D ) The best feedback I can give is: The early difficulty is where much of this seems to kick in. Seems like the beginning phase is taking notes from the mid-game.
A final thought: Is it normal for a 14 skill Handler to break into Slaughterer over and over? It was like this guy went Slaughterer every time he broke (multiple times) and every time he went for the animals -- his furry buddies!
Quote from: Sirinox on July 19, 2018, 05:04:20 PM
Why shouldn't they? Aren't they like crawling tanks? Large, heavy and slow plasteel armored heavy war machines. Why should they be reliably downed with just two pawns fighting them in such straightforward way? I recall in earlier versions to fight them unstunned in melee with even larger squad was a way to get at least few casualties.
Even their description mentions that they are vulnerable to mobile hit-and-run tactics, not to be casually downed by two armored pawns.
I suggest instead of massing autocannons you supposed to stun and/or outrange them.
Because if you recall, the reason that the door opening speed and hit points were nerfed was because popping in and out of doors to shoot was seen as tedious micromanagement. However, that's exactly what I did to deal with the other three centipedes: I had my Chain Shotgun pawn pop out of a door, shoot the centipedes, then run back inside before it could fire. It took FOREVER, and on a larger colony (such as the 11 centipede raid that EvadableMoxie screenshotted on the previous page) would be mind-numbing tedium.
Centipedes without Scyther support should be vulnerable to melee, or else what's the point of scythers at all?
EDIT: Also, they aren't being "casually" taken out by two random pawns. This is a master at melee combat, wearing the most up-to-date Spacer armor available, backed up by the most deadly close-combat weapon available. I'd expect such a team to take out at least one primary ranged combatant when attacking from ambush, in close quarters.
Think it already was mentioned, but can smoothed wall, that are designated to be mined , be ignored from repairing ?
Quote from: Greep on July 19, 2018, 05:07:33 PM
Re: centipedes. Well in previous versions they also had 2 weaknesses: slower movement and they got seriously shredded by explosions. So early game it was easier to pot shot them, and late game you could go to town on them with your rocket launchers or grenades. Both are still an option, just not quite as good anymore.
They are still quite slow, around 3 times slower than healthy pawns.
But aren't grenades suppose to get you in range of their weapon? I know there are ways to use them somewhat effectively on centipedes, but I feel like they are quite situational. And I tried rocket launchers few times on them in beta, but results were unsatisfactory imo since the rockets don't work like high-explosive anti-tank warheads against armor, they designed more like anti-personnel.
I found that aside from killboxes mass snipers/rifles shooting from max distance or splitting and ambushing with EMP grenades and melee while they are stunned give best results against them, same both in B18 and 1.0
Quote from: Dargaron on July 19, 2018, 05:14:33 PM
Centipedes without Scyther support should be vulnerable to melee, or else what's the point of scythers at all?
Scythers supposed to quickly close the gap and be deadly in melee, but vulnerable to ranged weapon, staggering and somewhat squishy, lancers supposed to be fast and dangerous in long range, but vulnerable to melee and flanking, centipedes supposed to be tanky and "very effective against bunched-up static defenders" (quote from the description), but slow, easier to hit and vulnerable to hit-and-run outranging outspeeding tactic.
Quote from: Dargaron on July 19, 2018, 05:14:33 PM
Also, they aren't being "casually" taken out by two random pawns. This is a master at melee combat, wearing the most up-to-date Spacer armor available, backed up by the most deadly close-combat weapon available.
Still just two humans against tanky machine about twice their size, not even utilizing their main advantage over it — speed.
In my recent playthrough i can't shake the feeling the game never once gave me a break. (Play on Rough)
On top of recruiting prisoners is nigh impossible now. Where i before could recruit with some difficulty the prisoner at 20% difficulty to get my fifth colonist i now can't. Also I find it still too risky to leave my colony even one or two colonists short early on while I still struggle to gain above 60k wealth.
The game was a lot more enjoyable before these tweaks. At least I did not feel punished for trying to gain colonists then. The slower research did not affect too much how I played.
If anything I discovered how helpful having a small army of Alpacas are. They somewhat offset the extreme manpower shortage I got. Make me wish I could more finely control them so they would immediately come to the aid of the handler and attack anything melee them.
tl;dr: The playthrough so far have felt like a long winded "Screw you.". A lot of struggle with few enjoyable moments.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/89ech5l3jp8po27/20180719233958_1.jpg?dl=1)
On the subject of drugs in general - It'd be nice if the Addictiveness stat on drugs was better described.
Given that addictions can only kick in after hidden tolerance thresholds are passed the Addictiveness % is really just misinformation.
It's pretty detrimental to a new player to think that Wake Up has a 10% chance of causing addiction on every dose regardless of context.
---
As for centipedes.. *shrug* I think a lot of it comes down to expectations.
If you expect most things in the game to be roughly as tough as a human then you're going to make all sorts of mistakes when dealing with centipedes.
If you expect them to take a lot of time to beat down and treat them like the slow, awkward, clunky blobs that they are they're not particularly deadly. Though perhaps they risk being tedious.
As with all the mech types critical mass is ultimately the most important factor. If you can overwhelm centipedes with combatants then they're not an issue.
If you can't bring enough firepower to bear or there's simply too many to be overwhelmed then it's a fiasco.
There's a bit of middle ground between those two states but... not a lot in my experience.
One or two extra centipedes or extra colonists - or dogs for that matter - can make a difference all out of proportion to their stats in isolation.
Well, when things go wrong in rimworld, they tend to go wrong spectacularly ::)
So I end up getting an infestation before I've really built my long term solution for them. This time there's 21 hives instead of 12, so I figured the best solution is a burnout. This goes... very badly. Usually I use wood for this, but since I'm in an arid shrubland, I end up having to use my crops. Unfortunately, my chemfuel is currently surrounded by bugs way to deep to even do a suicide bombing.
At first I try burning 1600 rice, thinking that'd do the trick, and it doesn't quite do it. Since that at least gave them heattroke and a very high temp, I figure 3000 corn would be just enough to light the hives and cause a chain reaction, or at the very least cause them to pass out and die.
This.. just BARELY does not work. All of the bugs get... -95% heat stroke instead. And since I took too long the hives start reproducing. :o
So basically... I'm just making an ever expanding wall between me and the bugs at this point ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Dargaron on July 19, 2018, 05:14:33 PM
Quote from: Sirinox on July 19, 2018, 05:04:20 PM
Why shouldn't they? Aren't they like crawling tanks? Large, heavy and slow plasteel armored heavy war machines. Why should they be reliably downed with just two pawns fighting them in such straightforward way? I recall in earlier versions to fight them unstunned in melee with even larger squad was a way to get at least few casualties.
Even their description mentions that they are vulnerable to mobile hit-and-run tactics, not to be casually downed by two armored pawns.
I suggest instead of massing autocannons you supposed to stun and/or outrange them.
Because if you recall, the reason that the door opening speed and hit points were nerfed was because popping in and out of doors to shoot was seen as tedious micromanagement. However, that's exactly what I did to deal with the other three centipedes: I had my Chain Shotgun pawn pop out of a door, shoot the centipedes, then run back inside before it could fire. It took FOREVER, and on a larger colony (such as the 11 centipede raid that EvadableMoxie screenshotted on the previous page) would be mind-numbing tedium.
Centipedes without Scyther support should be vulnerable to melee, or else what's the point of scythers at all?
EDIT: Also, they aren't being "casually" taken out by two random pawns. This is a master at melee combat, wearing the most up-to-date Spacer armor available, backed up by the most deadly close-combat weapon available. I'd expect such a team to take out at least one primary ranged combatant when attacking from ambush, in close quarters.
this door thing shouldn't work unless you are dealing with 3x minigun centipede, since both HCB and inferno cannon has well enough of a short warmup time to punish a door opening
I don't really have expectations regarding Centipedes. I don't know if they are intended to be killed 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 or 5 on 1. All I know is I got 11 of them dropped on me with a colony of 12 people.
I don't really care if the solution is to keep them at the current level of HP but greatly increase their point value so you don't get nearly as many, or to nerf their HP down so you still get a bunch of them but they are easier to deal with. Either works. All I know is that what I experienced was something that wouldn't be consistently beatable without massive turret cheese.
Quote from: ChJees on July 19, 2018, 05:51:11 PM
"Screw you."
Pretty much summs 1.0 for me at this point, and yes, most colonys have very few enjoyable momments, is sad :(
Mitigated charge lance to the liver is no fun at all, from an enemy that the game is allowed to spam in the dozens. Normal power amour has about 75% chance to do nothing against this type of instant kill. Plus you increased the liver hit chance from 1.5% to 2.5%. Furthermore the death text is incorrect; it says beaten to death even when it's a gunshot, because it turned into blunt damage. I'm sure this is the part that will get fixed with high priority. Like others said, game is going "screw you", let's instakill your full power armour shooter in the name of storytelling. If I reload this BS I am playing in a terrible way too? Fine, then this is terrible design.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Just had a mechanoid drop pod raid... that landed on my mortar shell stockpile and destroyed 200 HE shells and 3 anti-grain shells while doing 0 actual damage to the mechnoids.
Why exactly do landing drop pods detonate mortar shells!? There is absolutely zero I could have done to prevent this. If they were under a mountain they could get hit with an infestation. If they aren't, they can get drop podded. What if I had been on a flat map with no overhead mountain?
The worst part is the actual mechnoids did almost nothing, just 2 pawns lightly wounded.
"Screw You." indeed.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 19, 2018, 07:38:27 PM
Just had a mechanoid drop pod raid... that landed on my mortar shell stockpile and destroyed 200 HE shells and 3 anti-grain shells while doing 0 actual damage to the mechnoids.
Why exactly do landing drop pods detonate mortar shells!? There is absolutely zero I could have done to prevent this. If I put them under a rock roof, it I could get an infestation popping up on them. If I don't, they can get drop podded.
The worst part is the actual mechnoids did almost nothing, just 2 pawns lightly wounded.
"Screw You." indeed.
You should see my previous post when ALLY pods dropped on my mortar shells. Putting it under a mountain is the only counterplay, since insects do not attack items.
Quote from: zizard on July 19, 2018, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 19, 2018, 07:38:27 PM
Just had a mechanoid drop pod raid... that landed on my mortar shell stockpile and destroyed 200 HE shells and 3 anti-grain shells while doing 0 actual damage to the mechnoids.
Why exactly do landing drop pods detonate mortar shells!? There is absolutely zero I could have done to prevent this. If I put them under a rock roof, it I could get an infestation popping up on them. If I don't, they can get drop podded.
The worst part is the actual mechnoids did almost nothing, just 2 pawns lightly wounded.
"Screw You." indeed.
You should see my previous post when ALLY pods dropped on my mortar shells. Putting it under a mountain is the only counterplay, since insects do not attack items.
And if you're on a flat map, "Screw You." I guess.
Hey Tynan,
Love what I'm reading here. Plan to play this unstable branch tonight. I'm a little late to the party, I know. I'll post some comments after my initial playthrough. But here are some observations from watching others play it.
I typically play Sea Ice, which doesn't give me any geothermal energy. And because wind and solar are unreliable sources of power I typically build a lot of ship reactors to power my hydroponics. They became quite expensive in a previous version and it takes a long time to build them for little reward. Any chance their power output could be tweaked, their size could be decreased, or another generator could be added that's more in line with endgame and the sea ice gameplay.
Bases still look like massive stockpiles. Is there any chance vanilla rimworld will incorporate storage options for those of us who like more compact bases? IE storage crates or chests? I imagine you would have done it already if you had the intention of doing so, but I've never heard your reasoning behind not doing it.
I like the fixes to reseeding. Before my maps always looked barren and this drove me to playing snow covered maps. And when it was released, I almost exclusively played Sea Ice because of that.
Love that we can now move all benches around. Can't express how painful it was to delete them on sea ice games when ur base starts to expand.
Quote from: Sirinox on July 19, 2018, 05:50:21 PM
Still just two humans against tanky machine about twice their size, not even utilizing their main advantage over it — speed.
Indeed: so tanky that you get a whopping 20 Plasteel from disassembling the things. You only need the corpses of five such massive and imposing war machines to make one set of Power Armor. Seven if you want head protection.*
*Uranium and Advanced Components not included. Some assembly required.
UPDATE: So, the next Poison Ship chunk had four centipedes, four scythers and two lancers. I deployed all my turrets to the northern side of my perimeter wall: ten miniturrets, with two Autocannons on either corner (only two actually participated in the battle). That's as many miniturrets as I can line up without the explosions overlapping. These were backed up by two shooter pawns, one with a specially-made Excellent Sniper Rifle (I'm on hydroponics, so I was able to wait until Bigvee finished making a sniper rifle before popping the Poison Ship Chunk), one with a Good Charge Lance. I triggered the whole thing w/ a mortar barrage of three HE shells. Attached is what a Centipede looks like after tanking a High Explosive round to the facial region.
Between the two, the Autocannons managed to kill one Centipede: one autocannon got taken out semi-early by minigun/charge blaster fire, despite being surrounded w/ sandbags. The other autocannon ran out of barrel integrity mid-way through the battle, while there were still three centipedes up. It had something like 60 shots left when the battle started: I didn't want to refill it beforehand because the cost for repairing a barrel that's fired once is the same as replacing a fully-exhausted one.
The ten miniturrets failed to stop even a single scyther from getting into melee range, so I'm now down five steel turrets. I sent my melee pawn to ambush a Lancer that was hanging in the back: then I got to watch as she got beaten down
by a lancer in melee combat. Admittedly, this time she was recovering from a Plague, but the pain penalty from Minor Plague shoudn't make an enemy ranged specialist suddenly on par with a power-armored melee specialist. And no, the lancer didn't actually get to shoot at Bigvee: she managed to get close before it switched from targeting the turrets.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: zizard on July 19, 2018, 07:27:48 PM
Mitigated charge lance to the liver is no fun at all, from an enemy that the game is allowed to spam in the dozens. Normal power amour has about 75% chance to do nothing against this type of instant kill. Plus you increased the liver hit chance from 1.5% to 2.5%. Furthermore the death text is incorrect; it says beaten to death even when it's a gunshot, because it turned into blunt damage. I'm sure this is the part that will get fixed with high priority. Like others said, game is going "screw you", let's instakill your full power armour shooter in the name of storytelling. If I reload this BS I am playing in a terrible way too? Fine, then this is terrible design.
this is a great story, you rolled 5 or less on a d100. Story told!
I am glad I spent my time learning completely uninteractive ways to kill opposition, because that's far more important in this patch version than actually knowing anything about the cover system or actual fighting.
I completely wall myself off hoping maybe mechanoids will attack and go through the hives or something. Not my luck.
So... friendlies decide to "help" out againt the hives. This just pisses them off and causes them all to go around to my front gate and overrun the area.
Everyone's going to die, so I have them hang out and then start taking all the flake so at least they can die while high right?
[attachment deleted due to age]
While trying to recruit a prisoner, "Ian told an old story about rethinking his loyalties to Breila."
This sounds totally normal except Ian (in spite of her name) is female.
This new stun time from EMP blasts on mechanoids is unnaceptably low.
How is a shot that takes 28 seconds of warmup + time it takes to get to its target, going to be of any help when its effects rougly 30 or maybe less seconds?
WIth these stun times, a fight with 70+ mechanoids will always be a colony wipe unless there are 6+ mortars with 100+ rounds.
Anyways, just screwing around at this point. Apparently I managed to kill like 100 bugs in my living room so I just decided to go attack the hives before I quit. For whatever reason the insect A.I. just completely broke and they're always fleeing. Not really worth playing it out, but I found that funny :)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Cass, rough, large hills, temp forest.
So far this patch I'm finding recruiting people far more frustrating. Half the time I forget to select recruit as you have to wait till the guilty has worn off to select what you want to do with them. This includes selecting execute and release. Also prisoners always have low mood and mine are in a nice room, table, proper beds etc, fed fine meals (because you can't stop your wardens feeding them your best food).
I've noticed a marked increase in one shots and limb loss seen several neck shots removing heads. My colonists are also often still hurt from the previous raid when the next one happens or a manhunter pack. Any damage taken now feels like a real setback, either the pawn sleeps to heal or you can have them work and be more likely to die next raid.
A bunch of little things are making combat less enjoyable and I am feeling pushed more and more towards killboxes and trap mazes. Not looking forwards to any drop pod meccanoid raids. Melee felt useful as a tool v mechs and these changes make it far less viable (even ignoring the spear change). Spart from holding a choke point against melee raids and manhunter packs melee feels kinda out of a job and slow kiting with a sniper rifle back to being the main viable anti-centipede tactic.
Quote from: zizard on July 19, 2018, 07:27:48 PM
Mitigated charge lance to the liver is no fun at all, from an enemy that the game is allowed to spam in the dozens.
Charge lance has always been a weapon capable of one-shotting, that's what makes it scary. You have to be surgical and patient when dealing with them, any bit of recklessness can lead to a lot of punishment. Scythers are really weak vs traps, just get them near your traps and they'll be way easier to deal with.
Drop pods and their contents should take damage when landing on explosives, that seems fair.
I too miss the old prisoner UI, friendly chat was even sort of useful for building up some social before a release. IMO it even fits into the story aspect, showing empathy to your attackers. Rimworld is a game of moral decisions, I think the chat works in that regard.
The amount of charge lance one shot kill scenarios was increased about 2-3x against normally armored opponents, and about 5-6x against highly armored (high quality power armor / helmet opponents) relative to 1.0.1967
Also, if you're going to passive aggressive call people bad you should at least have courtesy to make sure you are better than them.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 19, 2018, 08:57:22 PM
The amount of charge lance one shot scenarios was increased about 2-3x against normally armored opponents, and about 5-6x against highly armored (high quality power armor / helmet opponents)
Yes, numbers matter.
Not being snarky- can I see those numbers?
Wall your pawns in with food and wait until it gets better.
I'm also having difficulties recruiting prisoners. I don't mind the resistance system. It's sensible and it makes the game harder.
However, I currently have a prisoner with mood 59, my recruiter is healthy and has social skill 8, the recruiting difficulty is 84, and I only get a 0.73% chance to recruit. It seems like the recruiting difficulty, mood and social skill now have little effect. You don't get much better than the baseline chance 0.5%.
I'm playing on Cassandra extreme.
Okay I didn't know this could happen, there should be SOME restrictions on when they are allowed to break. Like not literally the hour they land. Thats just silly... forced breaks should wait at least a week
Getting a heart attack 1 hour in is funnier
Quote from: Crow_T on July 19, 2018, 09:05:42 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on July 19, 2018, 08:57:22 PM
The amount of charge lance one shot scenarios was increased about 2-3x against normally armored opponents, and about 5-6x against highly armored (high quality power armor / helmet opponents)
Yes, numbers matter.
Not being snarky- can I see those numbers?
ok main changes to vitals in recent patch version
Neck 30->20 - not very important for charge lance numbers since infamous neck shot still instant kill even if one hit protected.
Head 30(?)->25
Heart 20->15
Liver 20->15
the last two are the big ones, since they drop armor-mitigated charge lance shots to lethal range.
Typical charge lance instant kill scenarios in 1.0.1967 - brain shot (any), neck shot (unmitigated), unmitigated stomach, liver, heart
Typical charge lance instant kill scenarios in 1.01969 - brain shot (any), neck shot (unmitigated), ANY stomach, liver, heart shot, head shot (there used to be a one-hit protection on head, but it appears gone now - it used to be that overkill on head took it down to 1/30). Liver hit chance also appeared to jump from 1.5->2.5, though not sure if that happened in 1.0.1968.
So for regular armored scenario, you are looking at maybe flak vest (lets pick excellent vest at ~120%) / plast helmet (sharps ~100, I am super lazy with math). As sad as it is, dusters and jackets are practically useless since they all fall under the charge lance's armor penetration unless you're using amazing materials like thrumbofur for the duster and have amazing quality.
You can use debug mode to see the chance of hitting a part, and armor formula you should be familiar with if you are going to teach people how to play, so I assume you know it. Clance arpen is 48%.
In such situation, brain shot about ~0.4%, neck about 2.2%, but flak vest will mitigate or deflect most vital shots, which is sufficient to avoid one hit kills (however, some unmitigated shots slip through since charge lance arpen is just that high, so about 2%~ for this range of possibility)
Now its brain 0.4%, neck 2.2%, unmitigated head shot 0.9%, but now that mitigated liver and heart also kills, AND the liver is larger you're looking at closer to 5% contribution from the torso vitals since now only a deflection will save you.
So about 4.6% -> 8.5% chance for instant kill against respectable midgame armor. So I guess closer to 2x.
The higher armor values, the worse it gets in terms of lethality increase. With legendary power armor (200 sharps), and legendary power helmet (~194 sharps), basically only a brain shot could kill you (about 0.2% chance of happening overall) since mitigation was effectively guaranteed. Now a brain shot and mitigated liver and heart shot also kills, at about 0.2 + 1.25% possibility overall (5% hitting these organs, 25% to not deflect)
For a more reasonable power armor scenario in lategame, try good power armor - 128 sharps / good power helmet - 118 sharps
Pre patch, brain is 0.54% here, unmitigated neck 0.4%, unmitigated heart, stomach, liver 1.25%~.
Post patch, brain is 0.54%, unmitigated neck 0.4%, unmitigated head .5%, any heart / liver shot 4%, stomach 0.4%.
2.25 -> 5.8, so about 2.5x more lethal shots for reasonable lategame armor.
Recruitment chances are broken, it will be fixed.
Also a general note - rule 2 on this forum may be worth reviewing for some participants. You're welcome to give feedback that you don't like something (in fact, I very much need to know this information) but this is not a place for anger venting or resentment venting. It really makes the whole discussion unpleasant. Just say what happened and give your thoughts on what should have happened instead. We're here to improve the game, not to commiserate and rage and vent.
Also a lot of this stuff is experimental, things can be broken, and so on.
Save the panther!
The poor panther is dying to the animals it preys on. It happens fairly systematically. I'm playing in a jungle biome (not swamp).
The faction spawn system should be left randomized as it was before, having 1 outlander, 1 pirate and 1 tribals as a default its a huge difficulty multiplier for tribal runs, even with fixed recruit %.
Quote from: seerdecker on July 19, 2018, 10:37:03 PM
Save the panther!
The poor panther is dying to the animals it preys on. It happens fairly systematically. I'm playing in a jungle biome (not swamp).
the cobra dosent do well either, often dies of bloodloss. That is fine by me, though. They still haunt my dreams from the days before the wildlife panel. I can still remember the days of A16 scanning the map for them while my colonists slept.
I'm abandoning my playthrough on day 457. Cass Extreme, no mods.
I think my problem was I got a bit lazy about recruiting while continuing to stockpile wealth and in the end I just didn't have enough pawns to defend my base, resulting in raids that were way beyond my depth. Partly this was because I wanted to try the activating the ship reactor event, so I stockpiled stun lances and other strong single use items. But I never got around to using them since most are useless against mechs and by the time I had a bunch stockpiled I realized my wealth was too extreme to be defended by the limited number of pawns I had.
Spears being OP let me get to that state when I should have been struggling earlier and then it was too late to really adjust. Even that said, I was doing fine against pretty much everything but Centipedes so I still think they are a bit overtuned. I just think it's so extreme due to me not recruiting enough and if I had done more it might have been okay.
I have a much better idea of what to do into the mid to late game. I think LRMS is a must, once you have drop pods it's very powerful. So much so you have to be careful about your wealth levels, but it can get you funds and goodwill for trade caravans. With exotic caravans you can get advanced components and speed up your end game production considerably.
Pretty much everything in the mid game needs to be preparing for late game mechs. Last time I went for charge rifles first, due to how flexible they are. This time, I am rushing lances because it's the only weapon that works against Centipedes.
Not exactly sure what "Fun Points" are, but I think that big jump around day 322 is due to starting LRMS sites.
(https://i.imgur.com/AE9W94J.jpg)
Story time!
We had a cache opportunity that I couldn't pass up: Sniper rifle, shield belt, and a masterwork revolver that I'll probably sell. It had no known threats which I figured meant an ambush, so I sent 3 armored guys with LMGs that I had just made (my first 3) It was 2 days away so I gave them 6 days of food and sent them off. As usual, I forgot the bedrolls and medicine.
As an aside, could we have a warning about bedrolls and medicine, akin to the food warning? Maybe just alter that screen to list things you'd frequently take but aren't.
So they get there and sure enough, it's an ambush. 2 Labrador retrievers that are way too fast to outrun. So, we take one down with our rifle butts and the 2nd goes down to a single shot while the other 2 of us worked as human shields.
Of course, everybody's cut up and bleeding so I make 3 quick sleep spots and set the doctor to work sans medicine to patch up the wounds. Thankfully, nobody gets infected but it takes quite a while to heal up, to the point where (now that we're slowed by injury) we won't make it back on the food we have. Lucky me, I brought raw corn along to pad the food supply (it's how I had more than 2.7 days of food with no travel rations) and there were 2 perfectly edible Labrador retrievers lying outside. So I made a butcher spot (thanks 1.0) and a campfire, cooked up a dozen or so meals, and headed out.
Vance - a lazy jogger (really!) who is still wearing the bowler hat he wore when he attacked us last year - got food poisoning before even leaving the square, and then within that first day on the road he got the plague and could no longer move. I quickly outfitted 2 more colonists (leaving only 5 at home) to run medicine and food to the imperiled crew. They got there just in time; we fought off Vance's plague with only 2% left on the meter. However, 5 people eat a lot of food and we were still hampered because being immune to the plague didn't mean Vance instantly felt wonderful. So, still 2 days from home (half a day for a normal walker) they again ran out of food.
So I made a 3rd caravan: my fastest colonist with all the food in the fridge. The 4 colonists left behind can fend for themselves, surely. That fleet footed girl ran all day to get them supplies, and they were quite thankful. Vance even started walking again, and they got back otherwise okay. And with the prizes.
But I don't think Vance will EVER eat dog meat again.
My researcher reports "Trapped underground" despite not being stuck in a mountain base in any way. I manually draft the colonist and let her bask in the sun for a while. Maybe the game could force the pawn to go outside when it's time to do recreation and the "cabin fever" is close to triggering?
(The same 30/60 Boreal Forest Cass Intense Tribal Muffalo Mob game. This game has been going on for way too many patches, so this will be the last iota of useful experience report before I start over.)
I've rethought my animal feed problem. Raw haygrass seems to be the best to store for a winter, since it is 10 nutrition per stack and lasts for a year unrefrigerated. Pure meat simple meals are the best for extending the food supply, since they gain more nutrition (and faster) than kibble.
Raids of 12+ lancers and an infestation of 11 hives have cut my Muffalo Mob down by a lot, maybe to 40 animals. I am furiously trying to breed or tame more, but it might be a losing battle now. I want to put up some turrets to soften future melee raids, but a patch set my research back by a lot. On the off chance I pull this out of the fire, I am stockpiling Luciferium for the final launch. I expect all my colonists, and possibly an animal or two, to be amped up on Luci plus Go-Juice for the entire launch sequence.
Instead of "Fun Points" or "Adaptation", call it "Fame". Because obviously a legendary golden sculpture will increase your Fame and attract thieves! That's just common sense...
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 10:28:09 PM
Recruitment chances are broken, it will be fixed.
Good thing! Bad thing is that I read this now, and not yesterday when I sold 3 prisoners to slavery as they wouldn't recruit... :)
Yesterday's build:
- had to check what difficulty I was playing - it's Cassandra, second lowest (base builder?), because I was getting raids every other day, for some time even every day. They weren't very strong, but... Raiders go and attack my farm animals. So I started pulling all of the animals inside the base when the raids happen, however, most of the raids happened during the night when the animals sleep, so they wait until they wake up (some never do...) and then start entering the base. Shouldn't this work as with pawns? They stop what they're doing (f.e. sleeping) when you give them some other task? Lost all my chickens to a 3AM raid...
- coolers: I have a couple of freezers, 5x5, one cooler per freezer, set to -20 C. This works OK, during heat waves temp goes up to 2-6 C, because of the pawns going in and out all the time, but it's OK, behavior same as in all of my previous games. Yesterday something happened with my other cooler, in the hospital (11x5). It's set to 18 C. Heat wave kicks in, outside temperature 59 C, hospital temperature 55 C. This isn't OK. The position of the cooler is good, it has opening for the red part, it's set up the same way as in all of my other games, the temperature should be around 30 C (it was that way before).
- megasloth revenge - didn't expect this. :)
- "The game is designed to help you recover" - I believe the quote was something like this. Nearing the end of winter, food very low, will hit starvation soon. Lo and behold, cargo pods with corn :) Poison ship, 2 lancers, I lose one pawn - ding - prisoner rescue quest (the pawn was even better than the one I lost). :)
And my last observation: when playing with 14-16 pawns, wild animals re-spawn is very bad, making hunting useless. There can be days with only a random squirrel appearing. Is the re-spawn random or depends on something (f.e. if you wipe the map clear, no more animals for you...)?
Regarding recuitment, did any of you look at why it might be going poorly? I'm trying to trace the cause.
If the prisoner has a really low opinion of the warden, it will be very hard.
Similarly, it depends on prisoner mood.
The text that pops up on recruit attempts notes if mood or opinion is low.
Any data on this?
No prob here. Easy to recruit anything but 99% enemy.
Sculpture and some lavish meal and it's done. It's chilling b/c it reminds you that real humans are also so pliable. Like POWs or Stockholm syndrome prisoners.
The mood tip is helpful. Improving mood doubles recruit chance.
Quote from: Tynan on July 20, 2018, 01:37:14 AM
Regarding recuitment, did any of you look at why it might be going poorly? I'm trying to trace the cause.
I'll capture a couple of raiders today and take a look.
(I do have a big prison, with chairs, tables, sofas, lights, carpet and a game, and they get fed lavish meals).
It seems a bit strange that a lot of buildings can be relocated but some cannot is this intentional or will they updated to be able to?
Quote from: Tynan on July 20, 2018, 01:37:14 AM
Regarding recuitment, did any of you look at why it might be going poorly? I'm trying to trace the cause.
I don't have the specifics (I released two of the prisoners when it became clear they weren't recruitable) but what I remember is:
- The game was created in 1.0.1968. I don't remember if I detected the problem before the .1969 patch.
- I was playing Cassandra/Rough.
- My prison is a 5x6 wooden room with granite tiles. It originally had 2 beds, but I added a 3rd after capturing another prisoner. All of the beds are normal or better quality. The room is kept clean, has a table, chairs, temperature control and a marble sculpture.
- I believe that all of the prisoners were pirates. Two were captured together, the third in a separate raid.
- The prisoners were given medical treatment and were fully healed. None had any serious chronic injuries or residual pain.
- The prisoners were fed fine meals.
- The warden has a social skill of 9. She was given a warden priority of "2".
- One of the prisoners was recruited after the warden received the "inspired recruiter" buff giving a 100% chance of recruitment.
- The difficultly ranged from ~65%-75%. The failed attempts on the prisoners, including the one that was finally recruited showed a recruitment chance of ~0.65% (they weren't identical, but all in that range).
- I never saw a message indicating they didn't like the warden, but I did see the "low mood" message for one (and only one) of the prisoners. When I checked his needs it didn't seem particularly low and I was surprised to see the ugly environment debuff. I'm not sure what caused it and the other remaining prisoner didn't show it. Nothing else really stood out.
- Not sure if it is related, but two of the prisoners fell in love and got engaged. I released them before they consummated their relationship.
Hope this helps!
{edit} Here is a pic of my prison and warden. https://imgur.com/a/NvIntkM (https://imgur.com/a/NvIntkM)
Quote from: Tynan on July 20, 2018, 01:37:14 AM
Regarding recuitment, did any of you look at why it might be going poorly? I'm trying to trace the cause.
If the prisoner has a really low opinion of the warden, it will be very hard.
Similarly, it depends on prisoner mood.
The text that pops up on recruit attempts notes if mood or opinion is low.
Any data on this?
This is what I got. Took them when I was frustrated that the recruiting never happened.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4lvh0ou93c3kht5/20180719220534_1.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4lvh0ou93c3kht5/20180719220534_1.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fl27b9w76n4b8pm/20180719220541_1.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fl27b9w76n4b8pm/20180719220541_1.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xtr3kf9u06gwuj3/20180719220547_1.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xtr3kf9u06gwuj3/20180719220547_1.jpg?dl=0)
Quote from: Tynan on July 20, 2018, 01:37:14 AM
Regarding recuitment, did any of you look at why it might be going poorly? I'm trying to trace the cause.
If the prisoner has a really low opinion of the warden, it will be very hard.
Similarly, it depends on prisoner mood.
The text that pops up on recruit attempts notes if mood or opinion is low.
Any data on this?
Going from memory:
Yesterday I spent a some time trying to recruit a 95% or 97% difficulty prisoner. He was in neutral mood almost the entire time, and disliked women. My warden was a beautiful woman with a skill of 6 in social. The recruitment chances I observed ranged between 0.5% and 0.6% (the latter being when I administered ambrosia). Later on another promising recruit was also in that difficulty range and I didn't even bother.
Quote from: Tynan on July 20, 2018, 01:37:14 AM
Regarding recuitment, did any of you look at why it might be going poorly? I'm trying to trace the cause.
If the prisoner has a really low opinion of the warden, it will be very hard.
Similarly, it depends on prisoner mood.
The text that pops up on recruit attempts notes if mood or opinion is low.
Any data on this?
My first couple games on the 1.0 builds I noticed recruiting being definitely harder than before, but noticed "Low Mood" popups.
There are a few factors that I had to account for - recruiting works fine for me now:
1. Shoving prisoners in a hole like I used to works way worse. Now I give them an OK room and their own personal table to eat at and other niceties as possible, to improve recruitment. Better mood = faster recruitment.
2. Resistance slows down recruiting in general, so there's usually a week or two before recruiting starts. My guess is this is where most of the 'whining' is coming from. I like it though - I always thought it was weird when a prisoner joined *Right Away*.
3. Tribals as Industrials/Vice Versa are harder as always. Way more noticeable due to the resistance wait!
4. You need a pawn with good social. Like every skill, low levels *barely* accomplish the task now. As such I try to pick a pawn with decent social in my starting pawns if at all possible. My first games where I had issues I had no socially skilled pawns.
*. Oh, I've not received a single "Wanderer Joins" Event in the 1.0 builds - Were they removed? The couple games I had "recruitment" issues in the wanderer would have made a big difference.
*. Previous 1.0 build, before you reduced "Death On Down" chance, I had trouble capturing prisoners in the first place! Literally had 4 people chase pawns with nothing but wood equipped and probably killed 6/8 of the pawns I tried that on.
My current game (Just finished first winter. Cassandra Rough) I got two inspired recruitment events early so that significantly sped me along, going from 3 pawns to 5 quickly. I'm at 6 pawns at day 43 now, with one recently acquired prisoner. Had a few close calls but no deaths yet. Narrowly avoided kidnapping 3 times...
I recruited several 80%-ish prisoners. It didn't seem much different from before. The only annoying thing is having to wait a day to click the Recruit box. It's fine if you don't want recruitment to start while they're still "guilty" but at least let us click the box when we're thinking of it instead of having to try to remember the next day and then there's a raid and a fire and oh crap we're out of medicine and then a quadrum goes by and we're pissed that it's taking so long to recruit the guy when we never marked him for recruitment.
Started a new game and two of my dudes got muscle parasites, which is worse than temporarily having brain damage due to the extreme debuffs on tiredness etc. I opt not to bother with medicine, because from the forums, they say it just takes a really long time to heal, and on the wiki it just says it goes away after like 5 tends. And so I was kind of annoyed when I had 2 zombie colonists for weeks.
From what I can tell after digging, this is because all of these are incorrect: it actually goes away when the total tend quality of each past tending reaches 300%. This is not really apparent from the UI at all, and I'm betting 90% of people don't use medicine on chronic illnesses when they should.
Ideally. it would have an immunity just like other diseases where immunity = totalTendQuality/disappearsAtTotalTendQuality
could we do away with the random enemy dieing without lethal wounds? it just feels so artificial....
it makes a massive difference if someone dies of a smashed head or torso like im used to, now they die with 5 bruises?
i mean im pretty good at suspending my disbelief, but thats a freakishly tall order...
Opening cryptosleep caskets is a "hauling" job. It really should be basic.
Also, uninstalling is still under Construction, whereas reinstalling furniture is under basic.
Also, when reinstalling furniture, there should be a "cancel" option on the original piece of furniture rather than cancelling the "shadow" of the furniture (but that should be kept too).
Can we also please cancel the forced slowdown thing during combat? It's fine for newbies but vets should be able to turn it off in the options.
When drafted, there is an option to attack and there is an attack to melee. Both are useful but it'd be nice to have an option to "shoot". A blob of pawns where 80% are shooting but the 20% is melee means that players often attack a target but also send their melee pawns into a situation where they get friendly fire.
Every time your handler retrains your animals so as to keep their obedience in check, the animals default to them as their owner. Really annoying, wished it was off by default.
This feeling when a prisoner gets the most comfortable prison in the world, just to be recruited so he realizes how poor our bedrooms are. And the awkward RimWorld mechanic that colonist cannot wish to go back to prison where all the luxury is.
I am hardly getting any new colonists in the latest version with NB starts. No wanderers join, most raiders just die and are difficult to recruit anyway. And as usual so many pawns with addictions or crippling bad traits or incapacities ir low skills, often in combination with each other. When the colony is still small, it's a REALLY bad idea to take in anyone that isn't combat capable or can't contribute to food production. They'll just drain food and make raids bigger while contributing hardly anything to defense.
First attempt spent a year having 2-3 colonists (one had an addiction and was incapacitated during a raid and then kidnapped).
Second attempt I'm at 2 colonists 38 days in.
I have 3 (of 10) colonists with Chemical Fascination (one joined the colony addicted to something or other) and I've had almost no problems with them. We're keeping the colony dry but even when raiders drop drugs it's no biggie.
I pay more attention to what's where and sell them ASAP but other than that I've not had any problems in 2 or 3 in-game years.
I also have a gourmand chef and don't even recall having a food binge. Ever.
But no pyros. Those guys can suck it. Jail 'em, strip 'em, remove an organ or 2, and send 'em on their way.
I never keep drugs specifically because of the chemical related traits. For me, just like the early days of pyro's, it only took a few colony wipes due to a spiral of death and despair started by one of them to make me never want to deal with it again.
I do take in gourmands because they at least have a positive to balance the negative and have gotten the food binge quite often but food is USUALLY not a concern, though it has been a few times in the first year on my tribal or brutality runs.
IMO, pyro turns into a micro-management annoyance that just drives me nuts and isn't worth the time. Chemical related traits are super bad if they get any chance at all to go nuts. I'll keep em though as I rarely keep drugs in this game. I find the drugs not really needed as I can build wealth faster then I can keep up with raids usually. If I get a chem trait pawn I usually will just make a campfire and immediately burn all drugs on "forever" mode.
I have a pawn with social skill of 13 and a prisoner in a "very impressive" prison and still got the .65 recruitment chance bug, they were only supposed to be like 85% difficulty. Thankfully I was good on food and so I could continue to support this prisoner since she was really good, but it still took me 2 years to recruit her...
Cassandra extreme, boreal 20/60, crashlanded, mid game:
* i never research mortars, mostly because we don't need the research to craft mortar shells and can get mortars from sieges
* go-juice has been buffed and i actually use it at home, it's a hell of a drug now but it's still painful to craft drugs when you've got pawns with any chemical interest
* i had a double event raid + party, the party was called off immediately, it could be exclusive
* plasteel is harder to get, it seems rightly balanced
* mid-game oscillates between 200-300 fun points
* recruitment seems to be harder when you reach the soft cap (13)
* i've had two kidnapped pawns (1 and 4), one killed (3) on my map, and it appears 2 colonists killed in the statistics, i guess for (2) which is the kidnapped pawn who may have died in captivity.
(https://i.imgur.com/NNlKu6a.png)
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 20, 2018, 06:03:49 AM
IMO, pyro turns into a micro-management annoyance that just drives me nuts and isn't worth the time.
I haven't found any problem with the occasional Pyro, since all my colonists are in 1-firefighting, I dont think it's that micromanegi.
But I have a suggestion on how to improve this, Maybe turn the Pyromanic breakdown similar to the "Focused Tantrum", in which he decides to burn one thing of the colony instead of multiple little pieces of it.
That way he will be pinpointed somewhere and will only burn another thing if the first fire is put out. Heck, he can even have a buff like "I burnt something, the smoke made me fell funny +5". In this manner the player can have more agency "Oh, he's only burning a cactus, let him have at it"
Other than that, I've only played these last two builds of 1.0, and it is turning out amazing.
Hi all, I would like to note a few points now that Rimworld is going towards completion. Please note that this is my opinion, and I do not expect anything from it, I just wanted to note it.
I am running on the latest version, recruiting new prisoners works fine and for me. Its clear how it works. However, it would be better, that if a warden keeps messing up for a specifiek reason, that that is noted somewhere. For example, if the prisoners mood is too low and there are multiple failed attempts, that there is a mention of that in the prisoners information tab.
Also, I noticed that after you captured a prisoner, you cannot set the release/chat/execute/capture option (menu does not appear) if the prisoner is noted as guilty. I am not sure if this is intended, but it is quite bothersome if you want to execute or release a prisoner. I am also not sure if others have this problem or not, it could just be my game, so if others do not see this, please ignore.
Also, I noted that specific naming for leather is gone, although I understand why this is done, I do feel that a thing of Rimworld that makes it unique as a game is lost. Same for the new rib-cage and the losing of some quality levels. I really liked to see that in the course of years a few ribs are lost (and replaced using mods), the details are important for the story. I am also not sure why the ribs where replaced with a rib-cage.
About the new armor, why is the flak armor jacket/pants not material based? now you can choose between a devilstrand jacket or a flak jacket. On that note, I do like that the classes of armor are not strict, a good plasteel plate armor is better than a awful power armor. Same that a steel plate armor does not need to be better then a good devilstrand jacket.
Lastly, the death on downed does not make sense for me and it feels unrealistic. I understand that it is needed to prevent the capture of too much prisoners, but it feels empty for not having a in game reason. For example, a wimp could die, just because of a hurt finger. Would it be possible to change it? For example by adding a death reason (circulation stop caused by too much physical stress).
Thoughts on recruitment and resistance (latest patch, Cassandra Rough, desert):
To be completely honest I don't find any real issue with them. Of my 10 colonists, 3 were the Crashlanded pawns and 7 were prisoners. Of those 7, 2 were tribals and 5 were pirates. For the longest time I used Tomboy, who had no passion for Social and only had 3 of them.
Their moods for the most part were fine because they more or less got a (cramped) room that was basically a colonist's bedroom with a light and a small table. I actually find them to be easily recruited with the longest time taken to recruit being roughly a season.
Sometimes they had "bad mood" appear over their heads because a few of them were addicts going cold turkey. But other than that? I find the current prisoner recruitment much better than the previous versions owing perhaps to the fact that I no longer see much of the dread 99% recruit chance difficulty anymore.
Quote from: Listen1 on July 20, 2018, 07:06:46 AM
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 20, 2018, 06:03:49 AM
IMO, pyro turns into a micro-management annoyance that just drives me nuts and isn't worth the time.
I haven't found any problem with the occasional Pyro, since all my colonists are in 1-firefighting, I dont think it's that micromanegi.
But I have a suggestion on how to improve this, Maybe turn the Pyromanic breakdown similar to the "Focused Tantrum", in which he decides to burn one thing of the colony instead of multiple little pieces of it.
That way he will be pinpointed somewhere and will only burn another thing if the first fire is put out. Heck, he can even have a buff like "I burnt something, the smoke made me fell funny +5". In this manner the player can have more agency "Oh, he's only burning a cactus, let him have at it"
Other than that, I've only played these last two builds of 1.0, and it is turning out amazing.
It's not the death sentence is used to be way back in the early days, more of an annoyance, and not the fun kind of annoyance I like in these games. They are a lot more managable now than they used to be for sure, but I don't want to have to deal with having to chase him around with a pawn to prevent all the fire damage to the items he sets on fire when he choses to go to my stockpile, the weapon and armor rack, or god forbid the mortar shells. I have all my pawns always set to 1 firefighting also but if they are mid task it takes them a few seconds to switch tasks and then go into fire fighting mode unless you select them and draft / un draft real quick.
For me when it comes to pawns I choose less risk because this game is already designed to basically try to kill us at every turn for "stories" so minimizing the amount of risk I take is how you make it to later game moments. There is no benefit to having someone with that trait, it's always a risk, so why bother dealing with it.
Additionally I don't like game design that isn't interactive on my part. I.e. has a method to beat, or a trade off to make it valuable in some way. With the chemical traits being forced breaks every X days it means no matter what I can't do anything to completely stop it. I can only sort of mitigate it. I have no actual control. Unlike the mood system in general in which I am rewarded for being able to keep them happy so I have incentive to build them nice rooms, pay attention to their needs, etc. With chemical that doesn't exist. So I have two choices, I either deal with it and keep zero drugs in my colony, which removes a huge part of this game IMO, or I never keep those colonists with those traits to be able to keep drugs around.
Well designed systems IMO have a risk/reward and a reason for the player to want to deal with or conquer it. This was part of the problem with tornados. The only purpose they served was to take away control from the player and cause damage. That's not fun, its just the computer cheating.
Anyway I kind of went on a rant there and didn't intend too lol. Just weighing my reasons in for why I avoid those 2 pawn traits like the plague (though I'd take the plague any day over them, I can beat that eventually :P )
I had a chased refugee, being chased by a hostile outlander union. The message said that they were a tactician, so I was excited because I know they get a shooting bonus from that adult trait. Much to my surprise, they are incapable of violence. As a child they were a war refugee.
Thank you for the ongoing feedback everyone. Especially some of our first-post heroes and few-post vanquishers.
I've just uploaded a new build.
There's new data on the Debug graph that shows some population-related numbers.
If you do give feedback please note your storyteller, biome, and difficulty and ideally post a screenshot of the Debug tab from your History page.
As always, the changelist is here for reference but please don't start discussions or offer opinions based on reading the changelist. Please write about experiences you had in the game, what you think is working and isn't working, and thoughts on what can be done to improve.
Also please bear in mind there's more we're already planning to do. For example, I've asked Ison to rework how damage interacts with body parts with a new design. The effects will be subtle on the outside but one of them will be that internal damage is mitigated depending on its type (e.g. if you get a bruise on your internal organs it'll be weaker than the bruise on the surface, etc). This and many other things are planned.
-----
Fix: If prisoner is guilty in dev mode, you can't see the interaction options.
Traps must be non-adjacent.
Reduced disturbed sleep impact.
Refactored timeSinceLastGain to popAdaptation watcher. Storyteller population intent now relates to time-since-gained prisoner. Made history recorders for population intent and popAdaptation. Lengthened interval between warden-prisoner interactions.
Wealth contribution to threat points curves off at really high wealth levels. Some tiny storyteller adjustments.
Scyther now has less armor than centipede. Centipede: Reduce health, slow down melee attacks, slightly increase speed, only use mechanoid-specific weapons.
Misc balance: -Increase wild animal spawn rate. -Adjust some organ hitpoints/coverages. -Reduce prevalence of indoorsman a bit. -Reduce arrest resist chance a bit.
Fix: HediffStage.label lacks a MustTranslate attribute.
Fix 3493: Caravan pawns don't get recreation-related thoughts
Fix 3490: Moving a large group of drafted pawns ultimately doesn't position correctly
Fix 3522: Prisoners get a fleeing mental break after prison break
Fix 3521: 2 maneuvers when trying to get armor penetration for weapon recurve bow tool 0 capacity Blunt
Fix: Prisoner recruitment chances calculated wrongly. Also re-scaled recruitment difficulty to 0%~100% range and made the central value an even 50%.
Fixed one more potentially bugged verb after loading occurrence.
Fix 3507: Exception in JobDriver tick for pawn Mags-LR driver=JobDriver_ConstructFinishFrame (toilIndex=1)
Fix 3503: Exception in UIRootUpdate: System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range. (interaction cell)
Fix 3518: Exception while saving RimWorld.Pawn_MeleeVerb
Fix 3520: Exception filling window for RimWorld.MainTabWindow_History
TranslationFilesCleaner now saves XML files with UTF-8 header instead of utf-8.
RE Prisoners hard to recruit, I didn't have trouble recruiting earlier in this save but now I am having trouble. Particularly Nielson I'm watching fail over and over.
He has ~60% "Difficulty" and is generally in a good mood - no "Low Mood" popups. My recruiter is healthy with a social skill of 12. Every recruit attempt shows <1% chance. IE Failed 0.64%
Tried to attach the save - too big. I uploaded it to my server here: http://portalkerr.info/files/temp/Greiver's%20Reavers%20(Permadeath).7z
Quote from: Tynan on July 20, 2018, 08:07:57 AM
I've just uploaded a new build.
Is it easier to recruit prisoners now? In the version before the one that broke recruitment, I saw recruitment chances between 10% and 40% after their resistance was overcome. Now all I see is 0.5% to 0.6%. And almost everyone has >90% recruitment difficulty.
When discussing recruit difficulty, please post:
-Prisoner mood
-Prisoner recruitment difficulty
-Prisoner opinion of warden
-Warden negotiation ability stat
From these 4 numbers I can check any calculations.
Thanks!
Well RIP my new favorite trap layout.
But hallelujah you fixed the draft movement bug! If it actually took... Traders are still disturbing my sleep and grazing on my crops. Any chance you can just forbid them from idle-walking on crops and into rooms/barracks?
So far I had a lot of fun playing the 1.0, the naked brutality is a great addition.
After a few quick starts with that mode I decided to make a cannibal colony on the ice sheet.
Colony persists over multiple versions (up until the "trap not adjacent" change).
Game settings are random, extreme and map temperature between -80°C and -10°C.
I started with one pawn - forced cannibal trait, no resources and tribal tech level. To test stuff (like damage and behavior) I decided against permadeath.
The early game had very few incidents, only one raid. Although it made building first defences easier it almost starved the cannibal.
Keeping up with a trap defense system helped against almost all forms of raids.
Over the colony time I killed 18 colonists, joined as wanderers or refugees, simply because they wont last long in a cannibal colony without that trait.
In all those colony years not a single cannibal made it onto the map, dead or alive. I might have forgotten to check some of the dead peeps though. I dislike that they die so quickly - I rather have some colonists with major body impairments than all of them dead. The lonely and exiled cannibal seeks some new cannibal friends!
Keeping only one colonist seems to reduce the threat level to a point where the maximum amount of raiders was like 5 to 10 peeps.
Up until now the colony is 5 years old and reached gun turret tech level.
I only had one sapper raid so far and they completly!! ignored my colonist and just continued to destroy random walls. I would love to see those sappers go for storage areas, grab some valuable stuff and run for it, but this raid was just shooting practice; they even ran right past my storage (maybe a building/furniture was the most valuable?).
All human raids died in a trap system without the need of fireing a gun - what strikes me as weird or unnatural is that they start smacking down walls when they flee instead of taking the free passage (all traps already triggered) and allowed me to get some extra meals by firing from minimum range.
A huge contrast are the mechanoids: triggering very few traps and taking little damage (seems to be intended), all ok but even turrets cant kill them. I like that they pose a huge threat, but with my one tribal colonist counterplay seems difficult.
The scythers are easier to deal with, since I can kite them; the lancers one shot from superior range. I really like the change to the minigun of the centipedes, now you have to pay attention where to stand and they even hit sometimes :O
Gun turrets definitly help but the huge and expensive turret does little to no damage even if it hits. Same accuracy as the small ones although much more expensive? Also, the information window doesn not provide damage and armor pen info. It makes the turret look pretty week. Havnt tested the sniper turret as comparison yet.
The barrel durability is a great addition, as I would love to see an ammo system for weapons (just a hope, I know it would be a HUGE change).
A lot harder than raids are the crashed ship parts as the mechanoids have to take some major dmg to make them chase my colonist into the base.
It seems like the psychic ship goes to extreme a bit too fast for my taste (5 days until high, 7.5 to extreme), although getting psychic foil helmets might need to be a higher priority for me.
Another QoL improvement would be a stockpile option for tainted apparal, now I have to micro-manage that by creating multiple stockpiles, changing the priority and forbidding tainted parts. Another option would be the reclaim fabric from apparal, even if it is very little and takes considerable time. As of now, the only option is to put them outside and let them rot given that enough other apparal is available.
I know that there were comments about the story tab, but I would also like to see it changed.
If I click on it, 99% of the time it is to check the skills or sometimes the traits of that pawn. I think the tab should be named after the primary use - which is certainly the skills and traits.
All in all great stuff is happening and I like that there is need for change in defense strategy meta, but as already mentioned if it gets nearly unpossible to prepare for all kinds of attacks the frustration level might dramatically increase.
I like to build a beautiful base and permanent colony but I dont wanna miss out on hard challenges and the sense of accomplishment when my colony manages to deal with big threats.
Oh, and another thing, traders now stand in front of my defenses, but only if the base is closed in with walls and only open to a trap/killbox like area.
Also, trained animals behave "random". When drafted they follow but dont attack on close range and if they decide to attack they follow very far. Example: trying to pull mechanoids from a ship part; moving through door so they take the long way around through traps. Husky decides to attack and runs after them (20 to 30 tiles or sth), even when the pawn stays behind the door; follows very far until the mechanoids reevaluate targets, turn and kill the poor husky :(
[attachment deleted due to age]
Started a new game, basebuilder Randy in an arid shrubland with large hills. I appreciate the increase in steel on the map. Also, been playing for about 3 hours in real life and haven't had any beavers show up. I know it's a random thing and I'm not complaining, just reporting. It actually seems more reasonable than the last time I played arid shrubland before the beaver frequency was lowered.
I've managed to recruit 3 prisoners, and it didn't seem more difficult to me than it did before. I'm not sure exactly what the resistance stat adds, but it doesn't really bother me either.
Nynzal - Your guy was a horror villain. I can see on the graph how you recruited people and then immediately murdered them over and over. Wow.
@Tynan, is there any chance we might get "friendly chat" or some sort of other prisoner interaction back?
Medium, perma-death.
Balance seemed a bit off? Second raid arrived - one guy with a club defeated all 4 of my colonists who had pistols, a rifle and plasteel knife. After that mad rats kept on arriving and flooring my remaining colonists, until bloodloss or disease killed them. Nothing I could do since everyone was unable to walk. Not fun :(
https://imgur.com/a/mY8Ul78
I had the Wildman event. It was a good pawn, but I had difficulty taming. The message was poor mood on a tame event. Eventually his 50% chance triggered and he went berserk. I put him down.
i do find it very odd that pawns that go wild will feed on insect jelly in plain sight of insects and not get attacked. how intelligent are these creatures to know that this human won't attack but others who walk by unarmed get attacked?
the other thing that bothers me about the colonist going wild is you have to tame them, you can't arrest them, beat them down (because 99% of the time they die upon being unconscious like they're suddenly a raider with a cyanide pill)
I like that the event exists, and i do like that the pawn will self tend. I'm wondering how they survive on winter maps however. the first thing my pawn did was strip down in a cave and party with the bugs.
When I'm rolling members for a tribe I tend to get a lot of the 'indoorsman' trait. Don't know if it's just me experiencing bad rng on that part. Can anyone confirm this?
I find it odd how prisoners who became lovers do not do any lovin' even if i gave them the opportunity to do so :s.
Also the recruiting chances are a lot better now :D.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdw2n9m1f7e4bnn/20180720193057_1.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zdw2n9m1f7e4bnn/20180720193057_1.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9z2084bgggpt1p/20180720193110_1.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9z2084bgggpt1p/20180720193110_1.jpg?dl=0)
Also it seems that now the recruiting got changed too much in the other direction :P. (Cassandra Classic, Rough, 165 days in, 107k Wealth, 5 colonists)
128% and 132% recruit chance on them.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7j3ji62sw1vi5di/20180720194920_1.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7j3ji62sw1vi5di/20180720194920_1.jpg?dl=0)
(If this (double-)post is too long for this topic, feel free to move it somewhere else, didn't think that it would get this big but in my opinion it fits here ;D)
Here's my story of the ship starting sequence:
Phoebe hard, Tropical Rainforest, year-round growing, wealth: 520000, Days passed: 526
Mods: 'Show Hair with Hats or hide all Hats 1.0'
My base was built inside a mountain. I've built the ship a little away to the north of my base in an area that got revealed during mining which was closed up against the map border with a wall as you can see on the 1st picture.
I had ~30 Retrievers, a rat and 4 boomalopes.
All but one Pawns were wearing Power armor, mostly excellent (The one exception being Scottie, Crafter/Doc who was incapable of violence so I thought Plasteel Plate plus Shield Belt would be enough to rescue someone or so). Three equipped with charge lances, one charge rifle, one chain shotgun, one with EMP-grenades and five melee fighters with good plasteel spears. Every melee had a shield belt and the shooters had smokepop belts.
It's morning, after breakfast and everybody is happy and I think that I'm prepared for some fights, the last raids never were a real struggle and I've built two auto cannons at my main/only entrance some time ago, that I've never needed before, to support my mini turrets.
I push the start-button and it states I will face a struggle like I never did and asks if I'm sure that my defenses are prepared for that. I think to myself: Shit, am I ready for this?! But I don't want to bother with building a bigger maze or more turrets or anything and the raids I had before were alright with not a lot of damage and Phoebe was nice to me most of the time so I decide it will be alright.
Man, was I wrong!
First drop Pod raid: 31 Scythers, alright, that's a lot more than I faced before but with EMPs and melee fighters supported by shooters, it should work out fine. While I am fighting them (22 left) a second drop pod raid arrives, 6 Centipedes, a few Scythers, and Lancers. I am glad that there's only one inferno cannon on them, all where coming from the edge of the map so they had to get through my main entrance at least. While they are starting their attck, a third dropping occurs, this time two centipedes dropped in my northeast warehouse and 3 or 4 of them plus some smaller mechs right outside in the fields.
I decide to let them do their thing while only my incapable of violence guy, Scottie, is inside (doesnt need my crafting stations anymore anyway).
While they destroy the furniture there my soldiers in the south are having a hard time and due to bad micromanaging on my side and bad pathing decisions from my Pawns, one get downed inside one of the bunker doors so Lancers are getting inside. I try to rescue him and the rescuer get stunlocked from being attacked from all sides and also goes down. Everything is really chaotic, flying EMPs and uncoordinated shots and melee in between, pretty intense!
I manage to get everybody out of doors and kill the 4 Scythers that got inside. So far so good, almost everybody is hurt but thanks to Power Armor only bruises and nothing lethal.
I decide that I can't hold this position and retreat behind my base walls in the west, two Pawns rescuing another one so four fighters are out of battle at least for some time.
Almost all traps are triggered so no help from them so a shootout inside my southern fields occur, Centipedes destroying my turrets, Lancers doing significant damage on Pawns and Scythers doing what they do, scything.
Meanwhile one of the bonded Retrievers goes down inside the warehouse, I forgot to manage their Zones correctly, so I give Scottie some dogs and draft him with 'release' activated, he might be unable to fight but he can lead them the right way at least. They get support from the two melee fighters that rescued the two Pawns beforehand and manage to kill the Centipedes. There are fires in my warehouse and some more dogs get downed but at this point I am really just trying to rescue the bonded one and kill the Centipedes inside at all costs (except Pawn's lives ;-)).
The battle in the south is starting to turn in my favor with only a lot of Scythers left, they got reinforcements sent in, don't remember how much.
I fight them in the little building to the south with a melee in the doorframe supported by one shooter and one EMP-thrower.
My bionic super melee-hero Jennings who really was a transhumanist (Arms, Legs bionic and one Archotech eye) dies to too much bruises in his torso and I get Xander to fetch grenades (only at that point did I realize that could be a good tactic against 20 Scythers in the Hallway instead of fighting them one by one) and it works out. Jennings corpse gets destroyed in the process so no resurrection for him.
After the Scythers are dead I fight off the left few Mechs in my northern fields and tend to the wounds.
I count the bodies of Mechs lying around:
63 Scythers, 12 Centipedes, 11 Lancers.
Two and a half days had passed, I've lost Jennings, got two or three more Yayo-Addictions meanwhile (had two beforehand but at this point I really dindn't care anymore about that) and almost everybody is wounded and resting.
At least some colonists get a good nights sleep, the ones that really need it and aren't on Yayo to work through the night.
(The 3rd picture is from the day after the first waves, some of the Mechs broke into my kitchen as well and I fended them off and rebuilt walls but my memory is not that clear about all the details, I was too overwhelmed by emotions to think clear ;D)
Not much time after midday, there are coming more drop Pods with mixed Mechs, I have stopped counting at this point.
At least two of them have inferno cannons. My traps aren't really rearmed yet and my turrets still gone, almost everybody still hurt.
I fight against them in the fields to the South again. The Centipedes are starting fires all over the place and my burning Colonists run out of Cover, everybody is shooting and screaming. Everybody tries to rescue someone and everybody gets downed in the process.
One by one.
Lacey watches her husband Alex go down as the second last standing and I nearly start to cry, looking at all my people, lying in the grass helplessly, everything going to hell.
Lacey, thankfully, decides to take a small break and to not let her getting overwhelmed by emotions but to think about the options. Fighting is not one of them. Her (and my) first impulse is to rescue Alex (they both plus Forrix were my favourite colonists) but he is definitely out of reach, she would die trying.
Alright, so she decides to get Scottie inside first and patch him up, he's a doctor at least (Thankfully, she was a Doc too, besides being a good shooter). While Scottie rests in bed Lacey goes out again and drags the next colonist inside, and the next, and the next, always waiting for the Mechs to get distracted enough so she can walk a few steps without it being suicide. She drops the people inside on the doorstep to not waste any time and Scottie gets up again, drags them into the hospital and patches them up. Solveig dies outside and Alex is still out of reach but Lacey manages to get everybody else inside, tough woman! Xander dies on the doorstep due to bloodloss and poor micromanaging on my side, can't blame Lacey or Scottie for it.
I am glad about the rain that set in during the action, otherwise everybody had just been burnt to ashes.
Lacey experiences heavy bleeding as well but patches herself up and keeps on standing and tending together with Scottie, using Glitterworld meds for all the infections.
Everybody is still incapable of walking, except them and a fire starts to burn Alex. Lacey is not going to watch her husband lying there, burning, so she runs out of the frontdoor to get to him and Scottie leaves the base to the south to distract the Mechs. It works out.
All 9 Survivors are inside. Most of the weapons are lost outside and the charge lances except one had burned away. Everybody is really wounded and on the edge of breaking so they decide to send the dogs that are left to haul all the meals and vegetables to a room close to the hospital and some meds and stuff to the space ship in case they have to retreat even further.
Some Mechs break into the northern garden as well now and some dogs get wounded in the process but without proper weapons it'd be suicide to go outside so the Pawns and the bonded animals stay close to the hospital and just wait.
Everybody is still out of order so Lacey and Scottie agree on waiting this shit out and don't care about everything outside getting destroyed, even the freezers and kitchen. They just want to hold the hospital and the rec room (everything west and north from where the mortars were).
Alex has lost one lung so Lacey goes to fetch one of the two, they 'scavenged' before. The death sound that I got so used to (three Pawns plus a lot of dogs) occured and Alex dropped.
Death cause: 'Psychite Withdrawal'. Fuck!
Lacey and Scottie had patched and fed everybody but they didn't think about the withdrawal effects and hadn't
administered drugs in time.
Lacey being Lacey, keeps a cool head and resurrects him with a serum. But all of this is too much, even for her and she starts binging on food. The problem is, there are only raw vegetables left to eat in the base at this time so she ventures outside (I think one human raid occured a little time ago, finally, but they didn't stand a chance against the Mechs roaming around and they probably dropped some meals) and gets shot multiple times and lit by inferno cannons and drops the last charge lance as well. What a sad moment, again, watching this brave hero lying helplessly burning in the middle of the battlefiled, sorrounded by killer robots.
Forrix, the best friend of Lacey is able to walk again, gets herself a shield belt and a Go-Juice injection and runs out to rescue her while Lacey is slowly burning more and more.
Forrix manages to get them both inside safely, with minor wounds on her at least.
Lacey's whole body is burned all over and not one single thread has remained of her devilstrand clothes and Power Armor.
Now they are all bunkered in and I micromanage the administering of drugs for downed, addicted Pawns to prevent this deaths from now on.
Things are looking stable, at least there is beer, Psychite tea and Yayo left en masse. Smokeleaf too but it makes them too lazy so they decide to not smoke it (I forbid it ;-)).
Xie Xue calls one of the outlander factions to send in some help to distract the Mechs and prevent them from breaking through the critical walls.
There come five people dropping at two different sites so no real help from them and Xie Xue calls the two allied tribes too but they don't want to help immediately but agree to send war merchants the next days (again, for distraction, no way they would make it to my base or I'd be able to trade with them).
At this point there are 7 days left I think. A siege with only snipers happens somewhere in between but also gets destroyed by the Mechs, as well as another human raid and of course all the friendly foes get wrecked too. There are dropping more Mechs in from time to time but mostly just 1-3 because my wealth was halved I think, since the beginning and everything iss fucked up enough for Phoebe to show some pity.
Every human that entered the map gets killed almost immediately.
Everybody still has hope because the Mechs aren't really interested in the walls around the ship and there's enough food (raw, but who cares in such a moment) and the chemfuel reactors Alex constructed next to the hospital will have enough fuel for the whole time and the colonists manage to build some more walls for reinforcements, and, trying to distract Mechanoids from critical walls from time to time, they could be fine until the reactor was ready.
Xie Xue calls some more merchants and military aid in, the distraction seems to work at least and prevents the Mechs from focusing too much on my fortress walls.
One of the Outlanders drops inside my kitchen, destroying a part of the roof, trapping himself in and I get the message: 'Allies are trapped and dig their way out'
They start digging to the north, directly in the direction of the ship. One almost digs through but fortunately he decides otherwise with two doors left in the long straight north-south-corridor and turns around before getting killed like the three other 'helping' 'Allies'.
So some of the Mechs are drawn close to the ship site but, fortunately again, they dig aimlessly and it seems alright.
...
[attachment deleted due to age]
...
4 days left until takeoff.
A merchant appears in the north, just behind the wall I built there. At least they don't start digging through it but wait right outside for my trader that'd never come.
Unfortunately, they attracted some Mechs too and both sides destroyed the single tiled wall. I'm pretty nervous at this point because it's so close to my ship but there isn't anything I could do really.
While I'm watching what's going on there, the Mechs in the south manage to break through a wall inside one of the bedrooms and I only recognize it as I get the message 'Colonist needs treatment'.
Scottie is in his bedroom, sorrounded by Lancers and a few Centipedes slowly coming his way too. He gets downed on his way to the door. Everybody readies themselves for rescuing him and all of them try to run through the door so badly that everybody gets stuck in the doorway. They can't really coordinate who want to stand where and who to attack whom from which side so nothing really happens.
While I try to coordinate them to not stand on their own toes, a Lancer manages to break through the wall that protects the ship and immediately starts destroying one of the engines, Centipedes and Scythers joining him.
Scottie is still downed, Xie Xue and two or three other Colonists too and Lacey decides that everything is fucked already so she gets the triple rocket Launcher and aims at a Centipede right next to the other colonists. She hits a wall and nothing really happens. She had expected something more devastating. But being frustrated as she was, after rescuing everybody she could and getting burned to the bones and seeing her husband die and get to life again and watching the space ship getting blown up, she decides to get the orbital bombardment targeter and aims it in the middle of them all to just blow up everything. This fucking Mechs destroyed everything her friends and she had built and are going to kill everybody she loves and there is no way left to survive this mess so all of them might as well just die by her hand and take some of this heartless machines with them to hell.
What she didn't think of was the mountain on top of them all. There are explosions to hear everywhere but not a single bomb hits through the thick roof.
Damn it, not even this little satisfaction the great GM is granting her!
There is no way for a meaningful suicide left and nothing to fight for anymore and everybody but her and Forrix is downed or dead, so the two friends grab their hands and run.
They try to dig through to the west to get out of this map but they are both pretty bad miners so it takes too long and they decide to take the northern route.
They get the best Power Armors they can out of the stockpile, try to get at least some basic weapons and meds and healing serums (which they couldn't pick up unfortunately, I tried to do it via the caravanning screen but because a lot of ways weren't accessible anymore due to Mechs I had to cancel it in the process because they didn't want to leave to the North despite me picking this Route on the map and they were so on edge that there was no time for a lot of fiddling around).
They have to flee with what is in their hands and on their bodies.
In all this chaos a refugee calls, by the name of Dalya and asks for help. Forrix and Lacey tell her that she could come but probably won't be that much safer here and Dalya decides to risk it.
She manages to run through the Mechanoids and get into the safe zone in the north eastern warehouse where the other two women were preparing for leaving. Dalya puts on some armor too and the three of them run to the north.
They are glad that they had the dogs bring some supplies up here beforehand so there is medicine and some beer and ambrosia, and chocolate and the dead merchants there had dropped some pemmican.
They consume everything that gives a little joy because Forrix and Lacey are really on Edge now. Forrix doesn't stand the pressure and wanders around sadly. Dalya is the best builder of the three and builds steel walls to the south of the ship where the mechanoids got through earlier, fortunately they had left meanwhile.
Then Dalya breaks into a berserk rage and attacks Scruffy, the last dog standing, which is bonded to Lacey, while Lacey is asleep.
Lacey wakes up to Scruffy's screams and now really has enough of all this shit, takes out her charge rifle and without hesitation shoots at her. Dalya survives and Lacey isn't a Psychopath per se so she rescues Scruffy first and then Dalya.
But all of this was too much for Lacey and she goes on a slaughtering spree and kills Scruffy herself. (It would be nice if bonded animals weren't the target of the Pawn that is bonded to them, really breaks the immersion.)
Forrix is still wandering and Lacey again sleeping when Dalya wakes up and breaks again into a berserk rage. This time, Lacey makes sure to shoot her to death.
Forrix gets to her senses again and the two get medicine, Ambrosia, Beer and Pemmican as much as they can carry and leave.
Everything they worked for in the past 9 years and almost everybody they loved and protected for so long, is just gone.
They still have their best friend to venture on at least.
And there is supposed to be an already built ship 80 days walk from here.
That was the story of the total devastation of 'Optimistic Community', maybe I should have chosen an other name in hindsight but I guess its fitting ;D
I don't know how I feel about all this. On one hand I was so frustrated and really really sad in between and more than once tempted to just give up and cry and on the other hand I really like the ending with the two best friends getting away together. (They were also the best shooters of the colony and also good doctors, my favourite Pawns as I mentioned earlier)
This is such a good story!! But I also don't like it ;-)
I'll play with them further and try to reach this ship eventually, despite them both being not good at cooking, building, mining or anything else except shooting and caring and on their first stop the charge rifle melted away so they are left with one chain shotgun, some meds, a double bedroll and a little pemmican.
Lacey also has a peg leg now and developed an addiction after escaping (which is really ironic because I drugged almost everybody during the last days and they both resisted the addiction contrary to most of the other colonists) because of a drop pod sending Flake, at the location where they stopped after leaving, and her breaking at the wrong time, so maybe this story will get even more tragic.
Conclusion: I really wasn't prepared for all this and I made a lot of mistakes before and during the fights and there really were a lot of Mechanoids. I hoped a lot for human raids but they happened only three times I think, after 10 Mech raids or something like that, when almost all my high-tech weapons were lost and burned. If they came earlier they could have helped me against the machines ;-)
So, I think my microing was bad in a few cases (I'm a pretty bad strategy player I have to admit) but I also had pathing problems which lead to a few downed colonists. When there are more ways available but not all of them safe I'd have had to micromanage every single Pawn to not run into the gunfire and sometimes failed.
But also Pawns blocking the Paths of other Pawns and making everybody unable to fight happened a few times.
Sometimes it also happened that one Colonist could not go to a tile where another colonist was a second ago and this leads to 'rubber banding' (if it is called like that, english is not my mother tongue) and sometimes prevents them from going through doors or getting behind cover which is annoying in critical moments.
And I had at least two times where I told my melee fighters to attack one enemy and all of them started to engage but only one really got close enough to fight, the others just stopped moving, despite the target being still alive and reachable and when there was a lot going on on different locations I didn't always recognise that fast enough. But sometimes two seconds of just standing around and blocking the path of other Pawns is more than enough to get more people downed.
I really can't tell difficulty-wise if it was balanced or not. Looking at the raids I faced earlier it was really OP but for the second hardest difficulty its alright I think.. Next time maybe I switch the difficulty down one point before pushing the button, but I don't like the feel of doing such thing.
I started the playthrough on the old 'hard', then when renaming happened it automatically switched to the new 'hard', former 'very hard' and I decided to keep this difficulty because it felt alright but I was already settled in pretty good at that time (after 4-5 years ingame I think). So maybe I can't make a real statement regarding this topic.
Maybe I just really have to build a proper trap maze and killbox next time but I really enjoyed that I didn't have to, up to this point of course.
And with a bit of luck I could have waited them out.
I didn't mention: the Raid, that followed the Refugee Dalya, destroyed almost all of the Mechanoids ;D Pretty strong raid obviously. I didn't pay that much attention to it, at that time I was microing the three to get at least some useful things together.
But there was nothing left for Forrix and Lacey so I decided not to go back and kill the last ones to get more supplies, which would have been wiser of course.
What shall I say... Thank you for this story!
It was tragic with glimpses of hope, a rollercoaster of feelings, involved a really heroic woman and kind of a 'happy' ending that I'd never have foreseen and that really happened because of the Characters involved.
Quote from: cactusmeat on July 20, 2018, 01:15:04 PM
i do find it very odd that pawns that go wild will feed on insect jelly in plain sight of insects and not get attacked. how intelligent are these creatures to know that this human won't attack but others who walk by unarmed get attacked?
the other thing that bothers me about the colonist going wild is you have to tame them, you can't arrest them, beat them down (because 99% of the time they die upon being unconscious like they're suddenly a raider with a cyanide pill)
I like that the event exists, and i do like that the pawn will self tend. I'm wondering how they survive on winter maps however. the first thing my pawn did was strip down in a cave and party with the bugs.
I finally got a wildman event, great pawn that I got on the first try! (tamer 14 in animals, 40% chance)
Bug AI is weird. They won't attack neutral wild animals, but they attack the ones that go berserk, even though the MANhunter animals pose no threat to them. Had a small herd of ibex get triggered and run through a cave and it was quite the battle!
I like the trap change actually. It nerfs overuse, but leaves moderate usage mostly intact. You just accordion it out, its not a hard nerf until you got to the point that used to REALLY abuse it.
I have a pawn with 100% recruitment difficulty... he was still possible to recruit, which is a little confusing. I thought he would be impossible to recruit...
Tynan, the story I made up was that this guy got exiled from the tribe for cannibalism and I did not recruit any new pawns at all - all colonist deaths were people wandering in or refugees that did not have the trait. I know that it is a horror story and the scenario is planned do create one. I am just sad that I didnt manage to find a second cannibal :D
Few thoughts in no particular order playing on cassandra hard:
Caravans:
It seems like recently several colonists are breaking basically on arrival or right after a fight(more than usual), which is fine but some of the new breaks cause some super awkward situations. Finished a gun battle at a pirate base only to have one my three starting colonists, basically my go to constructor who founded the colony immediately break after being undrafted into gave up and walk off the map, since I had no structure or bed I couldn't even arrest him....its like ok dude that was kind of random. Maybe caravans could get a temporary mood boost from winning battles like new colony hope to give them a second to stabilize their mood before they go berserk. The way it plays out right now is kind of weird, you win a fight but because everyone is extremely tired and your food is still on your pack animals everyone just immediately goes crazy. I guess the frustrating thing about it is I do go out of my way to try to immediately manage their mood, I am carrying a table and horseshoes to install immediately to cut the debuffs but it still feels punishing whenever you hit a new area even if I can stabilize them within 24 hours.
Love the removal of rocket launchers from caravan raids, i actually engage in fire fights now as opposed to just making sure i always have rocket launchers to fire first with.
Like the new long range mineral scanner, i feel like it would be cool if the spawned maps had a little more surface iron it would make it less tedious if your actually caravaning and not drop podding back and forth. Give you some incentive to set up a quick base and make the pods yourself as opposed to sending stuff from your main base. The maps feel conspicuously empty. I might just be getting unlucky, I have only done a few.
Overall I think caravans are more fun in 1.0 but it would be nice if the LRMS screens had something more to do. It feels engaging to set up a little mini-base and manage everyone for a couple days and then break camp, but there isn't enough to do on the map to make it feel worthwhile to set up a mini base. On the whole though they add nice layovers while your wandering around.
High wealth raids:
The triple pirate raid with high wealth feels cataclysmic, I have no idea how you defend against three groups of raiders who all have rocket launchers and grenades coming from all sides without save scumming. Everything else seemed reasonable too me but the smash and grab tactic of the three way pirate raid seems to always leave everything in ruins. I mean that's cool but feels a tad too hard. I am consider turning down the difficulty, but i feel like I can handle everything else ok, but these are just world enders when you have too much wealth.
UI suggestion:
Allow select all zoning on custom zones : It seems trivial but it would be amazing to be able to switch all animals/people to a custom zone with shift click, right now it only works for Unrestricted and home. Its one of those things that becomes tedious when you have to do it for every threat.
Please reconsider this new low EMP stun times.
With this new armor system where mechanoids have a decent chance of completely deflecting bullets, fighting them with such low stun times is impossible. On Hard difficulty at least it is.
Started a new run. Cass Extreme temperature forest.
I captured my first initial raider who was a tribal, then on the next raid captured 2 more tribals. Every one of them broke almost immediately once they could walk, due to being in pain. This caused them to attack eachother and only made that problem worse. One of them managed to destroy the leg of a fellow prisoner with her fist. I had to release two of them due to permanent injuries, and in the meantime captured a raider. Then were was a prison break that resulted in the last tribal being shot to death and the raider back into mind shattering pain.
This is really annoying because it's now like a triple check to get prisoners to join you. Unless you used a stun lance or something most prisoners are going to be people you captured from being down due to pain, which means a massive mood penalty for that until healed. So first, you need to wait for them to heal because otherwise you're almost guaranteed they'll be in a poor mood while hurt. If they break from the pain you have to subdue them and repeat that process all over again. Then you need to break through resistance once you can actually do more than tiny amounts due to poor mood. Then finally once that's done you get a chance to recruit.
I'm still doing it because I have no choice. There is no way to pro-actively recruit pawns in Rimworld. All pawns come from random events you cannot control, so the only option you ever have in terms of recruitment is "Yes" or "No." Since there's basically no other strategy I can change over to, it actually doesn't matter how easy or hard it is to recruit. I'm going to keep doing it because the other option is to just do nothing. There's no alternative recruitment strategy I can pivot to.
My only guy in (excellent) power armor just got onehit by an elefant scratch to the neck. A was really shocked when it happened. I know I said earlier that hunting elefants is boring, but I didn't wanted this either. :D
Are they now intended to be this dangerous?
Continuing my run on RR Rough, 12 pawns, 289k wealth.
Twice in the last hour or two my colony has been hit with mechanoids drop-podding into the base. 12-15 Scythers (no other mechanoid types) get to run rampant in my colony for free. The recent sharp armor nerf was well deserved, but Scythers in this particular situation, where they just drop in and bypass all my defenses, is pretty broken. I have no turrets for support inside the colony, the scythers are numerous and easily close the distance, and they get to kill our colony animals willy-nilly. Even with only 40% sharp armor they don't seem to die very quickly, but I wouldn't vouch for another nerf.
The first raid I had several pawns downed with several permanent injuries. Lost an eye, an arm, and a leg. I've save scummed the second raid about 5 times already, and it ALWAYS results in a pawn death and several animal deaths (animals are particularly stupid and/or slow when I tell them to get indoors where it's safe). I'm starting to wonder what's the point of having these expensive autocannon and sniper turrets, since mechanoids can, and often do, just drop pod behind them. They also get to run up and vandalize any turret (besides mini) for free, killing a ton of resources, while I'm stuck running around cleaning up individual scythers. It's also pretty counterintuitive, but telling all my shooter pawns to melee them with their guns is a better option, because it feels like the scythers die quicker, there's no risk of friendly fire, and it doesn't wreck all my stuff, since guns are so inaccurate.
Also, do raids even take into account how many pawns you have that can fight? Or is it all just based on colony wealth?
I got a second wild man. I noticed that the tame message says 10 percent, while the wildlife panel says 50 percent chance to have the negative reaction to tame.
Randy rough tribal, two non violent and 4 fighters. My streak of wild men ended with my second raid in the second month. The hostile outlander union attacked with 6 guys. I had 18k wealth. Since the outlander factions are better geared, I didn't even take one down. They left two fighters dead and took the other two.
Latest playthrough is over on day 36. Cass Extreme, Temperate Forest.
I was struggling to recruit. no wanderers, only 1 escape pod and it was a bad pawn with an ambrosia addiction that wouldn't have helped me any. I took every prisoner that went down alive captive but only managed to recruit 1 shortly behind the end.
I got a siege on day 36 with 7 pirates. I had just finished smithing and was starting on machning so my weapons weren't great. I had 3 pawns with bolt actions, 1 normal 2 poor, plus one melee brawler pawn. The area was too open to really utilize the melee pawn, and while I tried to kite them since it was seige they wouldn't have any of it. My chances to hit on them at max range were in single digits.
They fired a single shell at my colony which landed in the middle of a room, so even if I had won the fight I was probably losing most of my buildings and I don't think I would have recovered anyway. It should be noted I had pretty good armor, I'd acquired a set of plate and an advanced helmet so I was ahead of the game there.
What could I have done differently? I don't like to make excuses here but I honestly don't feel like there was anything I could have done that would have changed the outcome. Yea, I wouldn't have lost my base if it wasn't still made of wood and I might have won the fight if I had better weapons, but I don't think I could have had all that done by day 36 when I never had more than 3 pawns until around 30 days in. I feel like the answer here would have been to not get screwed on recruiting and not get a siege on day 36.
(https://i.imgur.com/BPZ8N0a.jpg)
i just rolled a tough wimp tribesman, please explain.
Tough is a physical trait. Their body is more sturdy than usual so they take less damage.
Wimp is a mental trait. They are more sensitive to pain and faint from less pain.
So a Tough Wimp physically takes less damage, but mentally faints more easily.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 20, 2018, 01:04:47 PM
I had the Wildman event. It was a good pawn, but I had difficulty taming. The message was poor mood on a tame event. Eventually his 50% chance triggered and he went berserk. I put him down.
By chance I had my first Wildman today. Also a good pawn, but I trained her with no problem at all. It took I think three in-game days or so. I wonder if I just got lucky or if you just got unlucky.
Not so much a playthrough story, but still perhaps some relevant feedback. I've been thinking about the reasons I stop playing a colony. The reasons tended to come down the fact that some aspect of the tedium involved in managing the colony didn't scale well as the colony expanded. To be fair, managing the colony does tend to scale very well for the majority of tasks. However, some of the interfaces like trading and forming caravans become cumbersome to navigate when the colony is large (oops I forgot to pack the bedrolls again).
Some micromanagement issues also arise when the colony is large.
- Replacing walls/doors with a different material is annoying to do.
- Manually selecting pawns with a break risk to consume drugs can become tedious as the game goes on. A setting where pawns consume if and only if they are at a break risk would save some pausing and micromanaging at least for my play-style.
- Tending pawns with non-bleeding wounds like cracks and bruises without micromanaging the medicine used also becomes a chore. Letting pawns self-tend only those wounds would save some doctoring micro. Better yet, assigning certain medicines to certain ailments would be amazing.
- Last time I played a colony the default behavior for traps had auto-rearm off, argh!
No mods. Day 36 on Cassandra hard - naked brutality temperate forest - disease freq 1.2 per year.
Two of my three colonists get the flu, 10 seconds later one of the already sick pawns gets the plague on top of the flu while the only remaining healthy pawn contracts the flu as well.
One day later another pawn contracts the plague on top of the flu leaving me with two double disease pawns and one with only the flu. They all die obviously.
Is this intended behavior and i had a pretty bad roll? I never had this happen to me and i've been playing a lot lol.
Quote from: ticket on July 20, 2018, 07:16:54 PM
- Manually selecting pawns with a break risk to consume drugs can become tedious as the game goes on. A setting where pawns consume if and only if they are at a break risk would save some pausing and micromanaging at least for my play-style.
You can not only already do this, you can limit the max they can consume per day or days.
I don't know why people are complaining about recruiting cause in 18B everyone had 99% difficulty so it really ends up taking about the same time as this patch's random % and the "resistance" thing.
I've missed a few updates, so I'm not sure when this changed, but the "Character" tab is now labeled "Story". I don't know why that was changed, but the new label doesn't make sense to me. Maybe "Stats" would be better? It's not a huge deal, since the tab is still in the same place, it's just... weird.
(Ive now updated to the latest version)
Started a new colony.
There was a hive in a cave at start, and I decided to leave it alone till I felt safer taking it down.
I could do it now but I wanted to wait till I could recruit some backup. After a few days I heard an animal screech I hadn't heard before. I paused to look for it and found my dog being attacked by a megascarab. I thought it was odd because I had specifically ensured the colonists avoided the cave the hive was in. When I looked at the cave there was a dead warg and another dead megascarab. Both of the Mega spiders were en route to the colony to attack my dog. The dog was right next to my colony and no where near the hive. One of the spiders also had injuries from the warg.
I suspect the warg tried to kill a megascarab then got killed by the rest of the hive and that aggro-ed the hive on me somehow?
Fortunately, because the other spider was severly injured from the warg, I was able to dispatch them with little injury. The Dog survived. :D
Quote from: Rockchecker on July 20, 2018, 09:17:35 PM
I've missed a few updates, so I'm not sure when this changed, but the "Character" tab is now labeled "Story". I don't know why that was changed, but the new label doesn't make sense to me. Maybe "Stats" would be better? It's not a huge deal, since the tab is still in the same place, it's just... weird.
Tynan changed it because of the lack of letter space. But "Stats" does make more sense than "Story".
Quote from: ticket on July 20, 2018, 07:16:54 PM
Not so much a playthrough story, but still perhaps some relevant feedback. I've been thinking about the reasons I stop playing a colony. The reasons tended to come down the fact that some aspect of the tedium involved in managing the colony didn't scale well as the colony expanded. To be fair, managing the colony does tend to scale very well for the majority of tasks. However, some of the interfaces like trading and forming caravans become cumbersome to navigate when the colony is large (oops I forgot to pack the bedrolls again).
Some micromanagement issues also arise when the colony is large.
- Replacing walls/doors with a different material is annoying to do.
- Manually selecting pawns with a break risk to consume drugs can become tedious as the game goes on. A setting where pawns consume if and only if they are at a break risk would save some pausing and micromanaging at least for my play-style.
- Tending pawns with non-bleeding wounds like cracks and bruises without micromanaging the medicine used also becomes a chore. Letting pawns self-tend only those wounds would save some doctoring micro. Better yet, assigning certain medicines to certain ailments would be amazing.
- Last time I played a colony the default behavior for traps had auto-rearm off, argh!
I think that's an interesting perspective. I usualy lose interest somewhere after the midgame when the colony is established and there is less stuff for me to do and the colony gets too big (because the framedrops are annoying).
For your micromanagement problems, there are mods that do exactly that. Well, at least for B18, but since they are quite popular and helpful I'm pretty sure they get updated. And the drug below mood is already an option in the drug schedule.
--
I think the tab name story fits quite well. It was weird at first because the skills are not story, but they come party from the story so it's ok. I understand that "Character" was too long and "Char" was just weird. "Stats" would work too, although then the story part is missing so the same deal.
I can't say anything to the latest recruiting changes since I didn't get any prisoners in a long time.
I noticed a few times already that during crafting something when it gets near to the end, the progress bar disappears. I think it's at around 85 or 90% but only sometimes. I haven't noticed a pattern for it yet. Is this a known bug? Or should I try to get any more information on this?
I'm now 100 days in my current game and had no trade offer quest at all. There were 3 item stashes and quite a few prisoner resques, but no trade request.
My current graphs are attached.
(naked start, cassandra extreme, arid small hills with river)
And a timelapse of the base if interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmhtLtieQNE
[attachment deleted due to age]
Thanks for the timelapse and graph screenshots Lanilor. Very useful.
There might actually be a bug too, pop adaptation should be rising in that last graph but it's not. Need to figure out why.
Tynan can we please get a small art change done to blight? I'm severly colorblind and while it stands out decently well on most plants, on cotton specifically it's really hard to see because the shapes and color are similar to the plant. For colorblindness, high contrast differences are usually best.
First poison ship after the update. My colony was fairly poor, so I drafted my 6 pawns, all with bolt-action rifles, a revolver, a greatbow and a shotgun. A scyther and two lancers popped up. As soon as the scyther went down, the two lancers managed to hit a 11% chance into two pawns and instagib them with a charge lance shot to the neck.
Not sure if necks are now easier to hit, but that was pretty depressing to watch. Not even sure if pre-changes to neck HP they'd survived.
Unmitigated neck shot against charge lance was always a kill, even on old patches with higher HP and 1-hit protection leaving necks at 1/30 or 3/30 was a kill since part efficiency of neck reaches 0% at 3/30 (or 2/20 now)
All hail the storytelling lance.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 21, 2018, 12:32:26 AM
Unmitigated neck shot against charge lance was always a kill, even on old patches with higher HP and 1-hit protection leaving necks at 1/30 or 3/30 was a kill since part efficiency of neck reaches 0% at 3/30 (or 2/20 now)
All hail the storytelling lance.
I was fine with one colonist down. But two, from two lancers being lucky roughly at the same time was just too much... gotta get those plate armors ASAP...
Well, so I've been playing a colony since some of the earlier 1.0 releases, and it's generally been going well... but launching the ship is god-damned impossible. Cassandra Hard. My first attempt was 6 years in. About 18 people at the time. I saved before I started so I could go back.
For the first few days it went all right, a bunch of raids but nothing I couldn't handle... but then it just keeps coming, averaging 3 raids/day. Never more than 16 to 18 hours between raids. I finally died to an extreme psychic drone driving all my males insane (because you can't really counter -48 mood), combined with 2 sapper groups from both sides and a mechanoid drop right in the base... all at once.
So I resolved to make more defenses, get more allies and be more ready. Today I tried a second time. 10 years into my colony. My colony is well defended, inner walls, out walls, two trap gauntlets, scattered turrets. 26 colonists, all fairly well armed (Charge/Assault Rifles a few Lances/Sniper Rifles, Plasteel Sword and Spears on melee), and well armoured (8 in Power Armor, the rest in Devilstrand Dusters, Pants, and Shirts with Steel Advanced Helms, and Flak Vests).
First time I got a pretty normal mechanoid raid, followed by pirates dropping right into my base. The pirates had at least 3 doomsday launchers, that they then fired off in close quarters, hollowing out the interior of my base and killing 4 or 5 pawns. Not wanting to lose the entire center of my base, with all my production and a lot of my most valuable stuff, I said fuck it, I'll try again.
So I reload, and it begins again. Mechanoid raids... approximately 3 per day. Because of the speed of centipedes, literally I'd be finishing up one mechanoid raid, and another one would start. After 13 raids, on day 4 a full Scyther raid drop right into the center of my base, notably right in my hospital and pretty much ended things.
I had all 4 factions allied, and I tried calling for help, but they sent near useless parties of 4-6 people, not even very well armed. Against 8 centipedes and another 8 scyther/lancers they did effectively nothing.
I'm not sure how this is supposed to be possible without some ridiculous cheese. Your colonists barely have time to sleep and eat, much less heal, repair or rebuild. So if you take any damage, to either your colonists or your facility you'll eventually die, as you can't recover at all. I don't know what the goal here is, maybe launching the ship is supposed to be impossible without things going exactly right... but the difficulty jump between normal play and ship launch is a rather immense gap.
For the moment I've given up on launching a ship is it's just absurd. Maybe I'll try a few more of the new starts.
Quote from: Tynan on July 20, 2018, 10:59:58 PM
Thanks for the timelapse and graph screenshots Lanilor. Very useful.
There might actually be a bug too, pop adaptation should be rising in that last graph but it's not. Need to figure out why.
FWIW:
The population graphs barely seemed to move/work in my saves from earlier builds.
They are noticeable in colonies that I have started on the new build version. Perhaps this is why?
Quote from: Tynan on July 19, 2018, 05:34:15 AM
Teleblaster, I would love to hear something specific that drives your impressions.
It's also important to account for the fact that every game gets boring eventually. So your feelings may just be based on the fact that you've played so much already.
2,000 hours on a game like this (or any game) is extremely exceptional; I consider it a decent success if a player hits 30 and a high success if they hit 100.
Thanks for addressing my comments, and just to reiterate: doing a true self-assessment, I'm really not anwhere near my threshold of burnout for this game. It's still enormously enjoyable, and within my current game, which was a Cassandra/Naked Brutality/Rough start on Boreal Forrest, everything up to the mid-game has not really proved to be frustrating.
With that having been said, I'll state an impression, after a reasonable amount of trial-and-error: the transition from the "early" game to the "mid" game is seeming to be noticeably more susceptible to colony collapse than B18. I consider that transition phase to be not one of, but
the most vulnerable time in any game that I've yet played: where production is beginning to get ramped up, food supply is becoming stabilized and sustainable, an animal adjunct to colony production is just starting to become integrated into the larger picture, and where base security first becomes effectively viable - but none of these goals have been put into full implementation. It's the most "wobbly" time, so to speak - where the colony is truly most vulnerable, and it feels far more "wobbly" in 1.0. Speaking personally, it's also the break-even point: where I feel that enough time has been spent in the game that I'm fully vested in continuing onwards with that colony, and where early game preparations
should begin paying off to accomplish goals and counter threats effectively.
I have to preface everything that I write after this with the knowlege that some impressions that I have might currently be OBE, and I want to stay away from theory-crafting completely. I'll usually refrain from commenting until I'm positive that my impressions can be borne out through repeatable events, over the space of several updates.
When I made the comment of "Death by 1,000 Cuts", I was referencing a number of smaller changes that I feel have almost a synergistic/magnifying effect on each other that attack the early portion of mid-game specfically, and that I haven't really seen addressed yet as a whole. I think these generally are much more difficult to quantify, since reading code to determine their actual gameplay effects isn't possible. I also can't state that I can identify every one of the factors as of yet, or that, since 1.0 is fluid, that some of these items haven't been changed so that their effect is totally different.
If you can keep in mind those caveats, I'll try to give my impressions with some concrete examples, and how they interact with each other.
One of my early-game goals is to build an animal work corps for hauling purposes that will become active in mid-game. This has two dimensions to it: facilitating base expansion and efficiency, and just as importantly, setting the stage for caravan efficiency: having animals haul on temporary camps greatly magnifies a player's ability to exploit those maps' resources. Now, what changes in 1.0 act as a newly-introduced impediment to that specific goal? There are a few that I can pinpoint immediately - some obvious, some less so. In the obvious category: training time must be allocated to keep animals under your control. Boars, who are essentially self-sustaining, can't be used in 1.0, so another reasonably viable early-game animal has to be substituted: Dogs are most viable IMO, but certainly not self-sustaining. This requires additional work for kibble production, which requires hay production and hunting to be sustainable, even on a small scale. Sowing times are slightly longer, but hay (and all items, for that matter) must now be both roofed and enclosed to prevent accelarated degradation. Hay storage times have been shortened.
Now - I'm not stating that you can't accomplish the goal of building an animal hauling corps; I'm in the process of doing it. But, consider how many new time-sinks and variables have been incorporated into the process in 1.0 for what would arguably a relatively small colony (mine is currently at 7): waiting for Dogs to become available, Wildness Training, increased sowing amount and frequency, and an increased urgency to haul what's been harvested (a side note: it is possible to lose a majority of a harvest of hay now due to the unroofed/unenclosed degradation requirement: just add an accelerant to the mix - rain - and a common scenario of having colonists unavailable to haul because they're getting wounded at a greater frequency).
Printed out, those new variables don't look so difficult to overcome, but the combined effect of all of these changes I've found is quite real. I believe it's safe to say that the process takes more time. Is it a more enjoyable process than B18, or a more tedious process? I'd weigh in that it's more tedious, by comparison. Now a second look: is it simply tedious, without any frame of reference to B18? Again...subjectively, I'd have to say yes. Does the increased time investiture spill over into other game elements? It has to: the one inelastic element in the game is time. More time spent doing odious tasks is less time that you can spend on other, and equally important tasks. Lastly, and possibly most importantly - is the process a more robust one, where there's a longer-term payoff for the increased effort, or does it introduce more opportunities for easier degradation and collapse? I feel that it's more fragile, because it almost has to be - introducing more variables into any system increases the possibility for those variables to cause problems.
Now - take this same analysis process, and look at other facets that are necessary to progress through the mid-game (e.g., consolidating potential wealth into applied wealth in the form of base expansion and security, normalizing and sustaining food supplies for colonists, updating a power grid, updating weapons and armor among others) independently, and see if the same assessment can be reached - and consider at what stage of the game the effects (if any) are felt most. I don't want to make this already-long post longer, but I believe the same conclusions - time sink and fragility of existing systems- are valid in a number of different aspects of gameplay, and to me, they seem to reach their
schwerpunkt right about at the same time: the early stages of mid-game
In no case that I can think of do any new 1.0 elements prevent you from doing what you would in B18...they just take longer, feel more tedious, and make a mid-game colony's equilibrium - the point where you can start actualizing goals effectively- harder to reach.
The common refrain would be: ratchet down game difficulty/go to Phoebe. I'd counter by saying that if what I'm experiencing has validity, and I believe it does, these are systemic issues that will transcend difficulties - the same effects will be "baked in" to gameplay at any difficulty. Time sinks and increased system management tasks don't nerf.
Moving on from those observations and impressions to a different issue - I stated a concern that the game was moving from a "Use the tools provided, because there's a solution" to a "guaranteed loss in the name of storytelling" perspective.
I'll apologize publicly for that statement, which in retrospect was made in haste - I know that's not the intent. I know that the balancing process is ongoing. However, just to set context: I was coming off of a multi-hour combat scenario. My 7 pawns, adequately armed and adequately defended, had an open-field Mech raid - 3 Cents, 3 Lancers, 4 Melee. Using a combined-arms approach from cover, I killed all but two, but in the process had 6 of 7 colonists badly wounded (2 lost limbs, 1 fully incap'd). I sent all wounded colonists to bed to heal up, get their peglegs, and all ambulatory colonists continued to leave their beds, despite every effort to command them to "rest until healed" (removing all work priorities, setting all schedules to sleep, in addition to the "RUH" command. The idea was to finish off the 2 remaining Mechs when everyone wasn't so banged up.
While my colonists were not obeying orders, a
second Mech Raid of 7 Melees dropped through the roof of my hospital. Needless to say, this was a colony-wipe, after about an hour and a half of trying everything I know to combat it. This second raid took place within several real-time minutes of effectively (although incompletely) defeating the first raid.
Upon reloading from the point where everyone was in the hospital, I managed to heal up 5 of my 6 colonists (one was still incap'd), when very shortly after, a 29-strong All Sniper with Flak Jackets raid occurred...at which point, I contributed my last comment.
There's a bug where one can still build adjacent traps!
The exclusion zone is removed from a trap *while it is being built*, and the new trap's exclusion zone does not take the in-progress trap into account.
I just started a new game last night to try something out and the survivor that I captured cannot be released. This isn't something that happened before yesterday's update. I don't think I'm running any mods that affect prisoners. I was wondering if anyone else has had this happen.
I did have a previous capture of a raider that I healed up and released. I currently have 2 prisoners, one I am trying to recruit (another raider) and the new one that just healed up (an escape pod survivor) and I want to release her.
I am running Phoebe and builder with reloading allowed, since I wanted a smooth start. It hasn't been that long in the game, maybe a few weeks.
Not sure if it was already said or solved but one bug I found yesterday and forgot to add in my report:
Enemy mortars have the storage filter ITab so you can disallow all shells and they stop using it.
Extreme Desert events feel a little bit too well-sighted at you.
More than a week of toxic fallout kills most of the crops
After that, heat wave means nothing grows
Then, a 24 hour eclipse, followed by another heat wave
It feels as if all of these events, when in the desert, have perfect synergy to kill you through starvation. Maybe Cassandra should take into account that some events are much more powerful in certain conditions, and adjust accordingly, but only for a while, to let you establish yourself.
As for possible bugs, for some reason colonists at 0 recreation will refuse to do it sometimes, even if you change their schedule entirely to recreation. Could it be because they only had horseshoes and a table for social relaxation?
Quote from: Destroy Alphabeavers on July 21, 2018, 07:23:03 AM
As for possible bugs, for some reason colonists at 0 recreation will refuse to do it sometimes, even if you change their schedule entirely to recreation. Could it be because they only had horseshoes and a table for social relaxation?
You should get a "boredom" alert for this case which explains it, don't you?
I'm happy that the colonist bar is now rearrangeble but I feel there are some more improvements that can be done. A few things that would be really nice would be:
1. More little UI widgets. I'd like to see the colonist bar showing their weapons when drafted, maybe little mini-icons of what they're doing. Fire for cooking, a hand for hauling, a hammer for building, etc. The "background" for health is not very clear either because a reddish bar can mean anything to "a few clubbed bruises" to "literally missing an arm". Frankly, a missing limb should probably be a red alert indicator on the right side of the screen anyway.
1.1. Btw the green little lightbulb is waayyy too dark. I'd rather have a bright lightbulb or something.
2. The ability to rearrange is a godsend but it'd be a lot more preferable if you can "distance" the groups. It can be hard to remember which one's your best docs or which ones are your dedicated fighters. There's only so much clothes combination you can do before 500+ hours blurs all the colonists together.
3. You know what's great? Being able to rename your colonists' occupation. However because even with shorthands for a specific skill (Soc for Social, Tact for Melee/Shooter, Hand for animals, etc), it's hard to see the available names on the assignment tab because they get too long. I understand character spacing but being able to move the column just a tiny bit to the right is grand.
4. This is as an actual problem: when you rearrange the colonists in the colonist bar, it doesn't move them in the schedule/assignment tab. Preferably you can rearrange this in those tabs too but I'll take them following the left to right and up to down in the colonist bar too!
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 21, 2018, 12:38:10 AM
I was fine with one colonist down. But two, from two lancers being lucky roughly at the same time was just too much... gotta get those plate armors ASAP...
Plate armour does almost nothing vs CL due to AP.
I noticed that when I use the wildlife tab and mark many animals for hunting like Oris from the Orassan mod it gets to the point where the alerts overlap it so i can no longer mark more. Should work the same if the animals are at the top too. If only there were some kind of "cooldown" between alerts of similar things.
tl;dr: Alerts overlap the Wilderness tab making it impossible to mark more for hunting\taming through there.
i just did a quick test with the new deadfall, n it's, say, rather useless now, the hit chance is pretty low, i generated 3 raids each with 10 raiders, putting traps outside perimeter walls, putting them in tunnel, putting them at choke points, and the result was that the deadfall traps barely triggered at all since the raiders just "accidentally"/"coincidentally" slipped through the gap
a way to "close off" the gap is to put sandbag/chunks or something in between, so that the raiders 'd have to step upon the traps, however, doing so 'd also affect your colonists pathing as well, not so viable
while reducing the ability/possibility of abusing traps sounds nice, seem to me the solution doesn't work, it's bugged btw, as mentionedby others, exclusion zone not work on unfinished traps
for me, traps 've been the main tool to deal with sappers by putting them at "designated weak wall spot", or putting it into mine to prevent insects, or putting them around turrets, especially sniper & autocannon, but now all those raiders, mechs, etc. can just slip through 'em all :|
New build! Mainly some balance changes, there's a bunch more planned, especially relating to friendly fire, wild men, traps, and hunting.
As always, please play it before commenting, and it'd be great if you noted your storyteller, difficulty level, whether it's a new save. Also I'd really love to see the "debug" history graphs for anyone's playthrough of any length. Thanks all.
---
Wild man fixes: -Tune wild man revenge-on-failed-tame chance. -Fix: Stats window doesn't show wild man revenge-on-tame or revenge-on-damage chances. -Fix: Wild man revenge letters have wrong text. -Fix: Wild man taming attempt text motes show spurious mood/opinion warnings. -Fix: Wild men who are imprisoned can hunt pawns in the prison cell for food (including the warden). Lol.
Reduce turret costs.
Reduce charge lance per-shot damage and increase fire rate a bit.
Misc balance: -Requested military aid is much more powerful. -Flak vest covers neck and shoulders. -EMP stuns a bit longer. -Buff packaged survival meals. -Increase quest frequency slightly. -Ease off midgame difficulty and flatten out the curve. -Increase prisoner chat frequency a bit. -Increase neck health and reduce its coverage a bit. -Speed up mining slightly. -Trap spring chances 80% -> 100%. -IEDs explode faster. -Buff IED explosion size and reduce warning time. -IEDs show their radius while placing and selecting. -Reduce accuracy of heavy charge blaster. -Slow down centipede to 1.9. -Speed up caravans and increase the speed bonus for light travel.
Adjust population intent, adaptation rollback from downed pawn, Randy incident density.
Rename indoorsman to undergrounder.
Nerf outdoors need and reduce random chance of indoorsman trait (still attached to various backstories).
Storyteller select screen text adjustments.
Fix: Can place trap next to trap frame.
Scenario.ExposeData() now removes null ScenParts.
Fix: Carried mass is sometimes calculated incorrectly while trading.
Fix: Wild men harvest hops even though they can't eat them.
Better WorldRenderer error handling.
Better error handling for invalid mods. GenUI.ErrorDialog() no longer causes errors if WindowStack is not initialized yet.
Added some extra exception handling for when a map fails to load.
Fix: Pinned messages cause errors during loading.
I just remember getting an error yesterday when I want to send a drop pod back from an incident map to my main base. I don't know the error message anymore, but it should be easy to reproduce:
1. Get a caravan on an incident map (in my case a prison resque and an item stash)
2. Build a drop pod launcher and drop pod
3. Fill it and click launch
4. Now on the world map, hover the main base with the mouse --> error each tick
--
Another thing I just noticed and I guess it is not intended: After a cold snap the temperature is now at 15°C but I still can't plant on a growing zone because of "bad seasonal temperature". It currently is a volcanic winter with a current light level of 93%. Not sure if that has to do with it. Wild plants grow with 86%, so 100% from temperature and -14% from the missing sunlight. I have a backup save of this if you need it.
so i stumbled upon a pawn who had construction 5 in his charpage, but only constr 4 in the worktab and he couldnt construct lvl 5 blueprints (heater)
I have no idea what this means but it occurred right after I forced this guy to make a cooler. He botched the job (possibly because he has food poisoning) and then went to eat a meal. It didn't crash the game or anything and when I went to check on the colonist, they were on their way to the fridge to pick up a simple meal. There were no fine meals in storage.
RimWorld 1.0.1971 rev1391
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
RimWorld.VersionControl:LogVersionNumber() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\Version\VersionControl.cs:83)
Verse.Root:CheckGlobalInit() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:82)
Verse.Root:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:38)
Verse.Root_Entry:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:16)
Mods config data is from build 1970 while we are at build 1971. Resetting.
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
Verse.ModsConfig:.cctor() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Mods\ModsConfig.cs:49)
Verse.LoadedModManager:InitializeMods() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Mods\LoadedModManager.cs:92)
Verse.LoadedModManager:InitializeMods() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Mods\LoadedModManager.cs:64)
Verse.LoadedModManager:LoadAllActiveMods() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Mods\LoadedModManager.cs:35)
Verse.PlayDataLoader:DoPlayLoad() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:92)
Verse.PlayDataLoader:LoadAllPlayData(Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:32)
Verse.Root:<Start>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:58)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
Loading game from file The DoomedToo with mods Core
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
Verse.SavedGameLoaderNow:LoadGameFromSaveFileNow(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\MapIniter\SavedGameLoaderNow.cs:19)
Verse.Root_Play:<Start>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:46)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
Loaded file (Map) is from version 1.0.1970 rev1261, we are running version 1.0.1971 rev1391.
Verse.Log:Warning(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:59)
Verse.ScribeMetaHeaderUtility:LoadGameDataHeader(ScribeHeaderMode, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\ScribeMetaHeaderUtility.cs:86)
Verse.SavedGameLoaderNow:LoadGameFromSaveFileNow(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\MapIniter\SavedGameLoaderNow.cs:33)
Verse.Root_Play:<Start>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:46)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
Could not load reference to RimWorld.TraitDef named Indoorsman
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.ScribeExtractor:DefFromNode(XmlNode) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Loader\ScribeExtractor.cs:49)
Verse.Scribe_Defs:Look(TraitDef&, String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Defs.cs:26)
RimWorld.Trait:ExposeData() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Pawn\Trackers\Traits\Trait.cs:36)
Verse.ScribeExtractor:SaveableFromNode(XmlNode, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Loader\ScribeExtractor.cs:122)
Verse.Scribe_Collections:Look(List`1&, Boolean, String, LookMode, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Collections.cs:128)
Verse.Scribe_Collections:Look(List`1&, String, LookMode, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Collections.cs:13)
RimWorld.TraitSet:ExposeData() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Pawn\Trackers\Traits\TraitsSet.cs:26)
Verse.ScribeExtractor:SaveableFromNode(XmlNode, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Loader\ScribeExtractor.cs:122)
Verse.Scribe_Deep:Look(TraitSet&, Boolean, String, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Deep.cs:87)
Verse.Scribe_Deep:Look(TraitSet&, String, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Deep.cs:14)
RimWorld.Pawn_StoryTracker:ExposeData() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Pawn\Story\Pawn_StoryTracker.cs:187)
Verse.ScribeExtractor:SaveableFromNode(XmlNode, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Loader\ScribeExtractor.cs:122)
Verse.Scribe_Deep:Look(Pawn_StoryTracker&, Boolean, String, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Deep.cs:87)
Verse.Scribe_Deep:Look(Pawn_StoryTracker&, String, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Deep.cs:14)
Verse.Pawn:ExposeData() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:369)
Verse.ScribeExtractor:SaveableFromNode(XmlNode, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Loader\ScribeExtractor.cs:122)
Verse.Scribe_Collections:Look(List`1&, Boolean, String, LookMode, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Collections.cs:128)
Verse.Scribe_Collections:Look(HashSet`1&, Boolean, String, LookMode) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Collections.cs:437)
Verse.Scribe_Collections:Look(HashSet`1&, String, LookMode) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Collections.cs:416)
RimWorld.Planet.WorldPawns:ExposeData() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Planet\WorldPawns.cs:136)
Verse.ScribeExtractor:SaveableFromNode(XmlNode, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Loader\ScribeExtractor.cs:122)
Verse.Scribe_Deep:Look(WorldPawns&, Boolean, String, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Deep.cs:87)
Verse.Scribe_Deep:Look(WorldPawns&, String, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\SaveLoad\Scribe\Scribe_Deep.cs:14)
RimWorld.Planet.World:ExposeComponents() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Planet\World.cs:108)
RimWorld.Planet.WorldGenStep_Components:GenerateFromScribe(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Planet\WorldGen\WorldGenSteps\WorldGenStep_Components.cs:23)
RimWorld.Planet.WorldGenerator:GenerateFromScribe(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Planet\WorldGen\WorldGenerator.cs:133)
RimWorld.Planet.World:ExposeData() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Planet\World.cs:97)
Verse.Game:LoadGame() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:414)
Verse.SavedGameLoaderNow:LoadGameFromSaveFileNow(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\MapIniter\SavedGameLoaderNow.cs:39)
Verse.Root_Play:<Start>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:46)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
Could not reserve Thing_MealFine535562(current stack count: 1) (layer: null) for Gubia for job Ingest (Job_4445629) A=Thing_MealFine535562 (now doing job Ingest (Job_4445629) A=Thing_MealFine535562(curToil=-1)) for maxPawns 1 and stackCount -1. Existing reserver: Hollis doing job Ingest (Job_4448970) A=Thing_MealFine535562 (toilIndex=4)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:LogCouldNotReserveError(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:638)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:Reserve(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:332)
Verse.AI.ReservationUtility:Reserve(Pawn, LocalTargetInfo, Job, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationUtility.cs:40)
RimWorld.JobDriver_Ingest:TryMakePreToilReservations() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\AI\JobDrivers\SatisfyNeeds\JobDriver_Ingest.cs:86)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:268)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:TryFindAndStartJob() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:519)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:EndCurrentJob(JobCondition, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:391)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:120)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:556)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:512)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
I haven't kept up with this enormous thread so apologies if these topics are well-worn but here's my experience so far.
Started a crashland scenario about a week ago, Phoebe Rough, flat arid scrubland biome with year-round growing. Zero mods. This is on a Mac.
~Things that are probably bugs!~
* Ye olde bugge of the display settings not "sticking" after quitting the game is still in effect (I think this always was a Mac thing). Whenever I start the game it's on some random resolution and I have to reset it, every time.
* One of my colonists has been receiving work experience in work she has never, ever done: cooking. She has two flames in it but was more valuable in other skills so has never once touched a stove or butcher table or made wort or anything, but since starting with the unstable version she has gone from 4 skill to 8. Maybe this is just a weird artifact of the game version constantly updating but it's bizarre that it affects, to my knowledge, only that colonist and that skill.
* Another colonist is getting the "disturbed sleep" debuff from *his wife*. Shouldn't this be impossible? I've checked and it's definitely his wife causing it and not a passer-by. This is happening while they are both at +40 relationship with each other (they were never the most lovey dovey couple but they are definitely still married and still on speaking terms) and sleeping in the same bed.
~Plants 'n' AMINALS!~
* Planting trees is just awful now. In the low-wood arid biome it's a necessity if you want to have any wood at all. I'm not planting a forest, just trying to maintain about 20 trees for power outage torches and the like, but it's dreadful with few growers. It's nice to be able to plant saguaro now! But I have a grower with 17 skill and it still takes him hours to get one damn cactus in the ground. He misses meals, sleep, and joy time if I don't manually snap him out of his tree trance, and all of the labor he's done is completely wasted if I do. I don't know why tree planting has to be punished, but if the punishment must continue, it would be nice to at least have some manner of saving your progress on planting, the way that advanced crafting tasks leave a little object to be picked up and worked on again later. Maybe a little sapling in the ground or whatever.
* I sort of like the new mechanic for tamed animals going wild if not constantly trained. It makes sense for self-tamed animals especially. It always seemed... unlikely that a thrumbo or bear would just wander in and be 100% tame all of a sudden. A couple of boomalopes self-tamed for me and I was having a hard time getting them to stay with my low-animal-skilled pawns--which makes sense! Then a high animal skill pawn dropped in a drop pod crash event and I ended up recruiting him specifically for that purpose when ordinarily I might not have. The animals skill feels more important to me now.
* Holy wow, hunting got so much less crappy. Now I can see exactly how likely it is that a beast will try to take a bite out of my hunter. The wildlife tab is amazing too. Now I don't have to do a manual full-screen scan for predators every damn morning. Excellent quality of life advancements all around. Looks like it's still being fine tuned as it has changed a few times over my playthrough but I REALLY like the direction of more transparency in animal threats, it removes so much tedium and irritation from the game.
* Just a random thing I've noticed from playing in dry biomes a lot: Megascarabs are still incapable of feeding themselves naturally because they are not set to consume living plants, only plant products and other stuff. So it means that they are the most annoying pests on a dry map, because they will ALWAYS try to steal your food if it isn't walled off, because it's the only thing they can eat! And if none of your food is available, they will just leave the map after a few days. Is this intentional? Why would they be living somewhere they can't eat anything naturally? :o
~Ostensibly human pawns!~
* This is so petty but I'm just so overjoyed that Sheriffs aren't useless now. One of my starting colonists was a sheriff and she cooks and hauls and DOES THINGS besides wandering around picking her nose between raids (or, more accurately, getting left to rot on the exploded ship in character creation because of complete uselessness).
* The "resistance" system for recruiting is hard for me to comment on because Phoebe has blessed me with so many recruitment inspirations that I have only really experienced it with one prisoner. Conceptually I like the change (makes sense that you need to give some time for Stockholm Syndrome to set in before you can sway the helpless dupes to your side :P ) but in practice it seems like wearing down resistance goes slower than you expect because the prisoner is in a low mood just due to injuries and pain, because they are either recovering from a raid or from crashing from the sky. The nicest prison cell in the world can't make a fractured pelvis feel better. But so far, it still seems preferable to every decent pawn having 99% recruitment difficulty.
* I'm not sure I quite understand the new faction mechanics--haven't gotten anyone to be my ally despite finishing quests for them and stuff. But I did get two "rough" factions to stop raiding me with peace talks, and it really felt nice to have interactions with the other people on the planet besides "grr you die now" or "beep boop please insert payment." Almost like they are, y'know, people.
~Caravans~
* THEY SUCK A LOT LESS. The formation screen is 1000 times better. More transparency about mechanics, more information, very very good changes. Automatic foraging and the resting command are nice touches that remove the monotony of needing to make camp in some situations. And the one ambush I've run into was actually reasonable and manageable with traveling gear, instead of being a massive instadeath clump of assholes with flamethrowers (I've had... bad experiences with caravans in the past).
* There is one thing I still always look for and am disappointed when it's not there, and it's the ability to see a drop pod's drop distance *before* assembling a caravan. I'm not sure how high I need to fill the chemfuel tanks for us to be able to reach the neighbors directly by podding in (I don't have the trees or manpower to have a steady chemfuel supply so it's important to conserve it). Is there some way to do this and I just haven't figured it out?
* Dunno if it's Phoebe, or random luck, or an intentional change, but visiting caravan and orbital trader frequency has been higher this playthrough and it's nice. The traders also seem willing to buy more categories of things than they did in B18 (if I'm remembering right). Even though they won't buy corpse stuff anymore I'm finding it easier to sell what I've got instead of having to build giant damn storerooms everywhere. This is good.
That's all I can think of right now. In general, changes are mostly good and I'm excited for the future. Here's the graph requested, sorry for the crappy picture quality:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/946203981948715537/71C4FDCB9EF679595A2E60DE4FE7BA23790C9A29/
insects are attacking me because they die of roof collaps and hypothermia.. thats just a joke
Updating to the current version, I have a few trait errors. Which tends to happen when traits are modified on a live save. I have one pawn with two nimble traits, and someone who has brawler who didn't before.
Imma about to go try the new update, and I know things should be based on play first then report experience.
But I just wanted to mention this because its more about the name of indoorsman/ undergrounder, and I don't think that needs a play experience to comment on?
Anywho I feel like "homebody (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homebody)" would be a better name.
Bug: Handler insists on training animals that have been designated as pack animals, following them to train them until the edge of the map.
I got the FineMeal error again. This time I paused the moment it happened. I have no fine meals in stock but I did have some before. Not sure if they disappeared or were just taken by other colonists.
EDIT I just noticed that while she's carrying a Simple Meal in her gear, it says she's carrying a Fine Meal in her little info box.
Loading game from file The DoomedToo with mods Core
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
Verse.SavedGameLoaderNow:LoadGameFromSaveFileNow(String) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\MapIniter\SavedGameLoaderNow.cs:19)
Verse.Root_Play:<Start>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:46)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
Could not reserve Thing_MealFine580842(current stack count: 1) (layer: null) for Ian for job Ingest (Job_4868288) A=Thing_MealFine580842 (now doing job Ingest (Job_4868288) A=Thing_MealFine580842(curToil=5)) for maxPawns 1 and stackCount -1. Existing reserver: Hollis doing job Ingest (Job_4868291) A=Thing_MealFine580842 (toilIndex=4)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:LogCouldNotReserveError(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:638)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:Reserve(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:332)
Verse.AI.ReservationUtility:Reserve(Pawn, LocalTargetInfo, Job, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationUtility.cs:40)
Verse.Pawn_CarryTracker:TryStartCarry(Thing, Int32, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Trackers\Pawn_CarryTracker.cs:123)
RimWorld.<PickupIngestible>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__0() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\AI\JobDrivers\SatisfyNeeds\Toils_Ingest.cs:63)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:461)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:364)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:Notify_PatherArrived() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:593)
Verse.AI.Pawn_PathFollower:PatherArrived() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\Pawn_PathFollower.cs:428)
Verse.AI.Pawn_PathFollower:TryEnterNextPathCell() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\Pawn_PathFollower.cs:527)
Verse.AI.Pawn_PathFollower:PatherTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pathing\Pawn_PathFollower.cs:286)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:541)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:512)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
[attachment deleted due to age]
I had a pawn have his waist cut off (???) and now he can no longer wear belts. Lol. Probably a bug. (see screenshots)
Enemies that spawn during a cold snap are not adequately prepared for the weather and get hypothermia.
I had an enemy pawn attack a manhunting animal with a doomsday rocket launcher a blow himself and a bunch of his friends up. (screenshot 3)
I also found that if you hit sieging enemies with mortars before they set up camp you can disrupt them and make them wander around in confusion for a bit before they continue on to their siege location and start building things. It makes dealing with sieges too easy if you have a few mortars.
[attachment deleted due to age]
My current colony is in the desert, which is a rather tough biome due to heat (including reduced open air growing time), nearly no vegetation and wild animals, a lack of wood and sand patches where nothing can be built. But that's why I chose it ;)
Anyways, I noticed during this play through that Power Armor gives a rather poor heat insulation, despite its high tech fanciness. Not sure if this is intended and why, but imho it makes those hot biomes even harder, but not in a fun way. I recall that this was different in earlier versions.
Quote from: lauri7x3 on July 21, 2018, 12:18:05 PM
insects are attacking me because they die of roof collaps and hypothermia.. thats just a joke
Of course they want to get into your nice warm base.
I like that on the stats window from items the right column now changes when hovering a stat left. But it also show the tooltip with the same content after a while. So that is now redundant and also somewhat annoying when I just hover, want to read the text and it gets overlaid by the tooltip.
I researched devilstrand relatively early this game and just planted a lot of them outside my base since it is also very fast to plant. Now after a while I could harvest them and now I could instantly give everyone a devilstrand apparel set which has also more protection than any leather I have (apart from thrumbo). I feel this is too easy to get and/or too impactful.
It would be nice if other rare leathers are still a bit better, like rhino leather. Or alternatively devilstrand needs more time to plant or needs more than 100% fertility, so the plant area is limited and I can't just spam big fields and get rich. It doesn't really help that it takes a long time to grow, it's just more waiting.
For research, the high research numbers on later techs are deterring when looking at them but somewhat fair. There was a discussion earlier that one can still rush the techs to make research faster and it indeed temps to do it but I think it is not a good idea on higher difficulties. There is a lot other stuff needed and I had trouble when trying to rush microelectronics early, because I fell back on everything else. Getting to microelectronics costs nearly the same as getting blowback weapons and flak armor. So you can choose between faster research and good equipment and since on higher difficulties bad equipments mean probably the end of the game, rushing multi-analyzer is not worth it. (This is from naked start on extreme. Crashlanded might be different when you already start with some good equipment.)
I think research actually goes into the right direction that key-techs are an impactful thing and it is an impactful decision when to research for them and when to do other stuff.
traders still have troubles recognizing where my base is.
they prefer to hang out near mini-containment zone i set up against poison ship, rather than close/at my base
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Toast on July 21, 2018, 11:23:00 AM
* Planting trees is just awful now. In the low-wood arid biome it's a necessity if you want to have any wood at all. I'm not planting a forest, just trying to maintain about 20 trees for power outage torches and the like, but it's dreadful with few growers. It's nice to be able to plant saguaro now! But I have a grower with 17 skill and it still takes him hours to get one damn cactus in the ground. He misses meals, sleep, and joy time if I don't manually snap him out of his tree trance, and all of the labor he's done is completely wasted if I do. I don't know why tree planting has to be punished, but if the punishment must continue, it would be nice to at least have some manner of saving your progress on planting, the way that advanced crafting tasks leave a little object to be picked up and worked on again later. Maybe a little sapling in the ground or whatever.
I have to agree that the problem isn't the amount of work per se, it's that it's in this huge block that a) makes it virtually impossible for your pawns to handle their hunger/rest/joy properly and b) blows past the protections that are supposed to stop pawns from taking work while they're about to be hungry/tired/bored. (That is, your pawn won't go start working on a duster or building a chair while they're hovering just over the "hungry" range; they'll go eat first and then work, like sensible people. Tree sowing doesn't allow that, I think because the "will be hungry (etc.) soon" check doesn't look far enough in the future.) It's also very punitive if, e.g., a raid happens and you need to draft your grower, losing hours of tree work in the process.
My personal suggestion would be to make artificially planted trees require periodic maintenance, like hives do, or they stop growing/die off. That way the total work/wood ratio can be arbitrarily high, so wood isn't too plentiful, but the work is in more easily digestible chunks that play better with pawns' (usually quite reasonable) autonomous time management. I don't know if it will bother people that their trees need tending but not wild ones, though.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 21, 2018, 12:51:55 PM
Bug: Handler insists on training animals that have been designated as pack animals, following them to train them until the edge of the map.
In 1.0 animals need to be trained to prevent them from reverting back to wildness. That's probably why your handler is going out of his way to train those animals.
Bug: Don't know if this is mentioned or not, but when my pawns are sleeping in their 4x4 roofed room on a sleeping spot, their 'spacious' bar is maxed out showing outdoors and they have the 'spacious interior' mood buff.
I checked and they do NOT have the indoors/undergrounder trait.
Edit: their room does not have a floor yet, so they are sleeping on a sleeping spot on the dirt.
Tynan please reconsider the "rotting because outdoors" thing even when the items are safely protected by a roof. I don't know what problem you were trying to solve by going that route but it's silly and just damned annoying.
Quote from: Zombull on July 21, 2018, 04:13:49 PM
Tynan please reconsider the "rotting because outdoors" thing even when the items are safely protected by a roof. I don't know what problem you were trying to solve by going that route but it's silly and just damned annoying.
I agree. In the real life, a porch roof or even any roof is enough to protect items from the weather.
The lack of walls don't affect the quality of items stored.
Only extremes temperatures could damaged outdoors items, and only the most temperature sensitive.
I guess you have designed this to prevent a too simple kind of storage. But don't forget that this unclosed storage is already really weak against stealing and wild animals foraging and so doesn't need to be nerfed, at least in my opinion. I was using it extensively until the 1.0 and it was really usefull to store wood, hay and other ressources coming in large quantities.
Quote from: NeverPire on July 21, 2018, 04:48:10 PM
In the real life, a porch roof or even any roof is enough to protect items from the weather.
Especially wood
Quote from: Zombull on July 21, 2018, 04:13:49 PM
Tynan please reconsider the "rotting because outdoors" thing even when the items are safely protected by a roof. I don't know what problem you were trying to solve by going that route but it's silly and just damned annoying.
I just created this account so i could agree with you
Starting a new fort, and I got a psychic ship during a toxic fallout with a somewhat difficult mix of enemies. I decided to summon some friendlies since even if this was doable it was a bit more risk than I wanted to take on.
Looks like called friendlies scale which is awesome, but the scale is a bit (at least double) too much on the high side atm. Those mechanoids didn't know what hit them ::)
If friendlies are going to be part of the mid/endgame, then rescued friendlies should also probably have faction gain reduced to ~1-2 as opposed to the currrent 15 or so. Friendly death farming, while amusing, is probably not very balanced.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on July 21, 2018, 05:09:46 PM
Starting a new fort, and I got a psychic ship during a toxic fallout with a somewhat difficult mix of enemies. I decided to summon some friendlies since even if this was doable it was a bit more risk than I wanted to take on.
Looks like called friendlies scale which is awesome, but the scale is a bit (at least double) too much on the high side atm. Those mechanoids didn't know what hit them ::)
This really makes me wonder how friendlies you call in do scale. Last time I called in friendlies, it dropped three or four people. And that was against a 30-ish person raid.
Was 4 years in and had something like 200k wealth, 13 pawns on extreme.
Edit - Didn't see the patch notes regarding this, that would explain it.
I did never have any problem with rotting. It is slow enough to not have an impact on short storage or when something drops outside and it makes sense from a gameplay perspective. Also walling off a storage is not that expansive and also stops raiders from getting in there. You can still store stuff like stone and steel outside. I even put tainted apparel outside to rot and it takes really long until it's gone when not putting it in water.
And remember: How something is in real life does not mean it is the best solution for a game.
Quote from: JohnLG on July 21, 2018, 05:16:16 PM
Quote from: Greep on July 21, 2018, 05:09:46 PM
Starting a new fort, and I got a psychic ship during a toxic fallout with a somewhat difficult mix of enemies. I decided to summon some friendlies since even if this was doable it was a bit more risk than I wanted to take on.
Looks like called friendlies scale which is awesome, but the scale is a bit (at least double) too much on the high side atm. Those mechanoids didn't know what hit them ::)
This really makes me wonder how friendlies you call in do scale. Last time I called in friendlies, it dropped three or four people. And that was against a 30-ish person raid.
Was 4 years in and had something like 200k wealth, 13 pawns on extreme.
It seems to be a recent change because I recall that as well in previous builds. Or maybe something broke *shrug*
Is it intended for Centipedes on Hard difficulty to withstand 10 grenade explosions? Because it took me like 12 to kill one (who was already damaged!) on several attempts...
Then I spawned three centipedes to test their grenade resistance and the first one to get downed fell with the 14th explosion!
Before when the emp stun on mechs lasted like a minute and a half, we could send melee pawns to beat them/grenade them a bit, then retreat, stun, and repeat.
Now that cant be a thing, with the new EMP stun time being relatively low despite the last update. It would take a shit ton of walking back and forth, dealing little damage every time.
If you dont plan to increase it any further, please consider any of these:
1. More damaging explosions:
If it takes at least 12 grenade shots (without counting the ones that missed) to take down one centipede, then all the colony will starve before we kill 20 of them. Given how small the explosions radius is, 90% of the shots will damage only one centipede.
Oh and btw, current stun time allowed me to shoot like 6-8 grenades before they wake up.
But, that is something i noticed by doing a test with 2 pawns throwing grenades at once!!
That means a single pawn can throw 3-4 before it wakes up and dismember him with 20 shots at few meters distance.
This issue can also be (at least partially) solved with the next point ↓
2. Force mechanoids to attack whoever is melee attacking them at the moment:
Why? Because if we are dealing with a group of 20 mechanoids, each with a guy beating them, they could easily shoot the pawns that are hitting other mechanoids, and with such short distances between each other its always going to be a massacre. Always.
Right now it seems like they sometimes deal with the one that is attacking them on melee range first, but not always. The instances where they dont, it always ends really bad...
It appears that the interval which with you can chat to recruit a prisoner was changed from 5 hours to 10 hours. However, the resistance drop appears to be the same (extreme, 40 mood, max/close to max relations with warden results in ~1.0-1.1 resistance drop per chat). Is this resistance drop dependent on social skill? If not (as that seems to be the only different variable), was this an intentional change to make recruiting prisoners even harder?
QoL suggestion: when you click on various animals in the wildlife tab it would be nice if the tab stayed open
Unfinished: The menu for crafting apparel needs to be updated for all the new leather types. It still shows the old menu.
Cass - rough, large hills, temp forest, new colony - tribal.
So recruited my first prisoner this patch it was a pirate from on of the early raids. I gave him a room with a floor, table, he had the first bedroll while my colonists had sleeping spots, a bunch of flower pots to make the room even nicer. 99% difficulty and 45+ resistance. Warden has 9 social and average resistance drop per talk was 1 to 1.5 towards the end when opinion of the warden was high. After breaking resistance the recruit chance didn't seem too low (I forget what it was but it was higher than I expected) and didn't take too long to recruit.
Traps the one time I used them when cracking the ancient danger just means a longer tunnel is needed. Doubt i will use them much anymore except for AD's, trap mazes would be too long for my tastes and using them to defend walls against sappers or a point you don't want raiders clustering is lessened. Turrets being cheaper and one shots on colonists being up (though flak chest change is nice as is the charge lace though early game one shots risk is high when you don't have access to armour, so I still rush plate armour after stone cutting and furniture).
I've still found the healing times mean that most raids I have still been injured from a previous one so mistakes are extremely costly, risk of colonist death next raid is higher and productivity is down or zero depending on how badly hurt they are. I always start with a crafter on tribal runs so I can get decent armour made as soon as I can manage.
Quote from: jchavezriva on July 21, 2018, 05:34:39 PM
...
Why? Because if we are dealing with a group of 20 mechanoids, each with a guy beating them, they could easily shoot the pawns that are hitting other mechanoids, and with such short distances between each other its always going to be a massacre. Always.
Right now it seems like they sometimes deal with the one that is attacking them on melee range first, but not always. The instances where they dont, it always ends really bad...
Noticed something similar to this myself. Had a centipede wake up after being EMPed and instantly fire his charge blaster past my pawn currently beating it with a mace. I think EMPs suspends instead of cancels their aiming, and that they can finish a shot they began aiming before being engaged in melee. I haven't personally noticed them shooting after engaging a pawn in melee.
The fight itself was brutal, too. The instant shot gibbed a pelvis I had hiding behind a sandbag. 1 masterwork heavy smg, two bolt rifles and a masterwork mace still took over a minute to down the single centipede. Once some of its functionality/vital organs were damaged and it decided to engage in melee my pawns weren't really at risk of major damage, but I reached that point in about 25% the time it took to kill the thing. The remaining 75% was waiting patiently while the centipede missed repeatedly and getting the emp grenadier to save the pelvis pawn.
Prosthesis could fix that hand up too so it's not like there's no way to come back from it.
Started a new Cass Extreme. Starting date was 12 Decembary. The first raid was 5 days later on Aprimary 2nd. So far so good.
Then, 11 days in on Aprimary 8th I get a raid. Then another on the 10th. Then a third on 12th. 3 raids within the spawn of 6 days, all within the quadrum. When I look at my graph, it doesn't note the 8th and 10th raids with a dot.
I'm curious if it's tended behavior for Cass to throw 3 raids at me within the span of 6 days and have 2 of them not registered on the graph, or if something weird is going on. It's extreme so it's not entirely unreasonable I guess but it does seem a bit excessive.
Here's a screenshot of the history tab and the graph together.
(https://i.imgur.com/QHQ8PvJ.png)
I've noticed that when a pawn has two bionic arms, they'll almost always use their bite attack in social fights. It's actually become a bit of an issue, and kinda hard to imagine in real terms. They're holding back from using their extra strong punches and instead biting their friend's eyes out? Pretty funny though, honestly.
If it were up to me I'd probably have pawns avoid using slashing damage in general while in social fights like they avoid using bionics. That or just add a bionic jaw.
As requested, here are my graphs for my game. Cassandra extreme, jungle biome, naked brutality. I don't recall which version I started in, sorry. Consider adding the metadata you need to the debug graph :-)
I'm restarting to try another base layout, even though my colony is thriving. This is what I love about Rimworld: the optimization process is so rewarding! There are many, many variables to consider and hundreds of variations to try.
I'd like to offer the following suggestion: please don't delete the plan layout when you build a tile. It is hard to keep track of the layout when the base grows organically because of this.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I don't do caravaning very often, and this experience is not convincing me to keep trying.
I am 0.1 days away from my destination, and decided to pause the caravan until night so they could rest up and hit the destination fresh and rested. I waited until night and made sure everyone in the caravan was low on Rest. But every time I un-pause the caravan just keeps moving to the destination. Why will they not stop and rest??
(EDIT: ok figured out you have to select the caravan then right click on the tile it is on to stop it. But it is still weird that the caravan seems to change from automatically stopping to sleep at night, to a death march if you pause it...)
I got raided from mechs scattered around map and there was only one arrow pointed to one of their drop locations. It was quite problematic to locate the rest of mechs especially scyters and lancers because they are small.
This could just be randy, but the threat frequency has been a bit, uh, insane the last few months.
3rd decembary-manhunter pack
7th decembary-psychic ship
7th decembary-chased refugee (declined lol)
5th aprimay-MadEmus
9 thaprimay-psychic ship
10th aprimay- manhunter pack
10th aprimay- mad megascarabs
1th jugust- siege
3rd jugust- mechanoid drop pods
I'm not even at 60k wealth ::)
Edit: lol. this poor poor husky.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Finished my first 1.0 game today. Wasn't long, but here is what I have for the beginning. I tried NB, Randy rough.
---
- NB, interesting, but sloooooow. I play at 1x speed and although I didn't find it terribly hard (other than the fact we got killed, but it wasn't bad) I would avoid this mode in the future because it's just such a huge wait to get anything done. All this walk across the map for berries, walk across the map to harvest healroot, walk across the map to try to tame the alpaca again.
Not saying it's bad, but the start is just brutal to me due to the time factor.
---
- I did a caravan. I was surpised to learn that dirt, stone, and ancient asphalt roads are all exactly the same in passage time. For some reason I had assumed dirt roads offered the smallest movement bonus and asphalt was the fastest. It seems wrong that they are all the same.
---
- This may kill you, but the dark purple berries are hard to see. lol You don't want them red for the colorblind. Blue isn't too bad as it appears on the bush, but you should realize red is easier for people with normal vision to identify. The purple (harvested) berries are not good IMO. Maybe "mixed berries" would be easier to see, several colors? I repeat that a colorblind mode would better serve everyone's interest...
---
- There are these tables showing information about rooms like size and cleanliness. They never go away and are constantly floating over things. It is nice to see that information, but I would much rather it were presented some other way that didn't constantly occupy screen space. It's like seeing every guy's character sheet pop up if your cursor is over him.
---
- The mud textures are cool. Love it.
---
- Probably some ancient complaint, but it's annoying how you can't orient or predict the direction from which a horseshoe pin will be used.
---
- The distribution of camps on the world map was very good. I saw many good spots to settle, even though I always pick the first random selection. I move sometimes.
---
- Death; I don't understand why this is a letter, and I miss the death chord. I was disappointed to hear the "alert" sound in its place.
---
- Hard mode description: "an disciplined preparation..."
---
- I know this has been mentioned. Silver is hard to recognize. It has more than one form. I generally think that's a bad idea. Maybe if silver had the same shape as iron but a shining silver color? I get that you're trying to show elemental silver, and it's not working at all. The old silver icon may have been crude, but at least you could see what it was and I doubt anyone was complaining about it.
---
That is all I have right now. I will try to get a colony further along so I can see more combat and organizational stuff. Case in point, CRASHLANDED. Hehe.
Oh by the way, my colony died when my two people both got food poisoning and then a boar went crazy. One woman was too far from shelter and instead of fighting like I should have, I fled and got nothing in exchange for being gored. The other guy made an abortive retreat near some insect hive trap thing I made (door and wall near an insect hive, AI will presumably walk past the insects). Could have survived that, but I botched it and both colonists bled to death from pig tusk.
Quote from: Koek on July 21, 2018, 05:52:13 PM
Unfinished: The menu for crafting apparel needs to be updated for all the new leather types. It still shows the old menu.
What menu is this?
Can anyone post any savegame that's at least 50 days into the game?
seerdecker I'd love to see yours.
Something is wrong with the population adaptation system and I'm having trouble reproducing it. But it seems to be present in these saves so I'll see it if I can get a mature savegame. Thanks.
@Injured Muffalo - You can turn off room stats, it's a toggle in the lower right of the screen. Must have turned it on by accident at some point.
Edit: ah savegame, nvm
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 21, 2018, 10:25:07 PM
@Injured Muffalo - You can turn off room stats, it's a toggle in the lower right of the screen. Must have turned it on by accident at some point.
Default hotkeys for that are [T] and [G]. Probably hit them by addident sometime.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r5x9nq9w11ibn6c/The%20Desert%20Awoos.rws?dl=0
120+ days in, started 3 (?) patches ago.
(There are some mods but they do nothing with the save apart from a few added researches without content I was just experimenting with.)
Edit: I also noticed that the existing/old part of the graph changed after loading today. Looks "better" but still a long flat line on the pop adaption.
Here you go. I couldn't attach due to size limit (even zipped), so I uploaded to third party.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=96125600319983486276
I recently updated to the build where indoorsman was removed or renamed? My pawns that once had indoorsman now have some random trait. If I reload the game, I get a different trait.
Is it your intent that indoorsman is just swapped for undergrounder?
Quote from: Tynan on July 21, 2018, 10:19:20 PM
Can anyone post any savegame that's at least 50 days into the game?
seerdecker I'd love to see yours.
Something is wrong with the population adaptation system and I'm having trouble reproducing it. But it seems to be present in these saves so I'll see it if I can get a mature savegame. Thanks.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=75349776148248597678
Intentionally low population old enough save, rough
Something odd I noticed, bedrooms with diagonal walls allow sculptures to count beauty to both bedrooms.
Edit: damn, i've been deleting my saves when the colony dies. I guess i'll play some more rimworld...
[attachment deleted due to age]
Just finished my first two caravan runs.
Two rescues in a row both with relations to colonists.
First rescued my constructor's father who turned out to be a druggie and a cannibal. Upon return I let him recover, then banished him. -3 doesn't out do the +18 for the rescue of a family member.
As pappy man-eater was on his way out, the second rescue request came in. This time for my Doctor's mother. And this time surrounded by turrets. Though when I arrived there was a mortar. I don't know how I feel about that. I think turrets are distinct and different from mortars, so part of me was miffed there was not mention of it in the quest message. I killed the two defenders and made off with the Doc's Mom, 5 standing lamps, a full battery, and a mint condition assault rifle.
Im definitely gunna need to prepare better in the future though. Bare bones trips with just food and heal root can work but I get the feeling Im suppose to be bringing more supplies with me. :P
Thanks for the saves, that's all I need for now.
One QoL thing that would be helpful is not defaulting prisoner feeding to the best available meal.
I even set a stockpile of meals in the prisoner room, but of course the warden must walk halfway across base to feed them the best available meals.
Its also extremely frustrating manually dealing with prisoner sleep cycle desyncing from the warden. Now that recruitment speed was reduced by 2.5x every bit of efficiency needs to be squeezed from the process - possible to allow prioritizing a recruit attempt over warden sleep?
Quote from: bbqftw on July 22, 2018, 12:16:02 AM
One QoL thing that would be helpful is not defaulting prisoner feeding to the best available meal.
I even set a stockpile of meals in the prisoner room, but of course the warden must walk halfway across base to feed them the best available meals.
Option selection would be best, IMO, since mood quality matters now. Getting patched and released? regular foods, recruited? have some delectable deliciousness!
Hmmm. Rescued a escape pod guy, healed him up, then he immediately walks right over multiple traps.
Shouldn't friendly - blue named - pawns avoid traps?
Healed him up, then he immediately walked over the same traps again. Healed him again, left those traps un-set, and he took a totally different path out.... through more traps and died.
In my experience, I either want the prisoners to have the best meals available, or I build a nutrient paste dispenser that the prisoners can use themselves so I don't have to haul food in there constantly. I don't feel like any change is needed, but I guess other people might find that kind of thing useful.
Quote from: Wintersdark on July 22, 2018, 12:58:19 AM
Hmmm. Rescued a escape pod guy, healed him up, then he immediately walks right over multiple traps.
Shouldn't friendly - blue named - pawns avoid traps?
Exiting Guests (rescues) are still hitting traps can confirm!
Quote from: JohnLG on July 22, 2018, 01:09:41 AM
In my experience, I either want the prisoners to have the best meals available, or I build a nutrient paste dispenser that the prisoners can use themselves so I don't have to haul food in there constantly. I don't feel like any change is needed, but I guess other people might find that kind of thing useful.
I usually play tribal. By the time I have the opportunity to think about a nutrient paste dispenser I'm at a point where I don't need or want it. I find the nutrient dispenser more of a luxury item for most games unless I'm playing specific scenarios or situations where cooking isn't an easy option.
Before mood mattered for prisoners I would have preferred they ate the least important stuff by default if we didn't get to choose, but now that it actually matters we should be given a little control over it IMO. Mood is a variable we are expected to use/take advantage of for recruitment, food is required for prisoners to survive, choosing which food we give them seems like a logical step.
Wow, food poisoning seems way over-tuned now. The pawn is absolutely useless for an entire day--and, ok, I get it, I've had bad food poisoning and you feel like you're gonna die. But the problem is you can't just tell them to go to bed and sleep it off, because clicking on a medical bed just shows "no injuries" or whatever. So they drag their useless slow ass all over the base, leaving piles of puke everywhere and fumbling every task. They are also frequently unable to finish eating a meal before they have to throw up again, so they spend hours and hours trying to eat and just getting hungrier and hungrier. I think food poisoning did need a little more intensity, but this seems like too much.
Lol. One of my colonists got pelted by an auto pistol weilding raider with 16 shooting skill 6 times, so I un-drafted him so he could retreat and get patched up. Dude avoids getting further shot up moving away from the firing line, but 5 tiles away... gets struck by lightning. He just having a real bad day. Had to pull back the line to rescue him. He'll pull through but he gun' be out for awhile! XD
Disclaimer:
First, I'm a noob. I've played two colonies that lasted more than a year before I started this one, with one of those in B18 and the other in 1.0. I make suboptimal decisions and fail to do "obvious" things but I think there isn't enough non-veteran presence in here, so I'm putting myself out there. Go team noob! I'm going to be playing fairly cautiously, both because I tend to get attached to my characters in games and because I don't intend to "save scum" unless something really crazy happens.
Second, I didn't start doing screenshots until a little ways in, but there's one a day of the whole map starting on day 10.
Third, I'm including a lot of info on my play experiences/thoughts on purpose. There's going to be a lot of text after this even though this post is just my first year. It's massive, sorry!
Starting build: 1.0.1968
Mods: Numbers, which is strictly an informational UI tab
Cassandra Medium, Crashlanded
Tropical Rainforest, Flat, River
I spend a good bit of time in the character selection screen playing with my options and get a halfway decent team together. A fast walking industrious male medic with high shooting (Glasses), a tough gourmand female cook with passion in a bunch of useful tasks (Mel), and depressive but fast learning and fast moving female builder/crafter who can also mine and research (Sarai). I'm lacking in social, but I'm hoping I can get someone to fill that gap before too long. When the team's ready I pick a tropical rainforest (because I've never played on one before) tile on a river that's near a road and a handful of other settlements and get started.
Day 1: Ugh. There's one decent sized patch of rich soil and it's really far from my starting location and the river. Guess I'll have to do without this time. On the plus side there are two geothermal vents fairly close together and not far from the river, so I decide to start my base there in between them.
There's a ton of wildlife and plant life here, which is such a welcome change from my last game (Arid Shrublands), where I ran out of wood almost immediately and had a hard time keeping enough meat in supply later on. I can tell those won't be issues on this map.
Note: Glasses has a "Hard worker vs lazy" social debuff against both of the other two, even though neither of them have the lazy trait. I assume that's because he's two steps harder working than they are?
Day 4: Visitor named Cat came by with a few items to trade. I bought some pemmican to give myself a little more cushion to get refrigeration up and running. I'm going for watermills to start with since I'm not too far from the river.
Mel decided we should have a name, so now we do. Welcome to Greenwater Fen, home of the Dawn Republic.
Day 5: A mad rat appeared and was instantly killed by Sarai, who was nearby.
Day 7: Our first raid! One pirate with good shooting but a really crappy autopistol. He's got some really good stats, even if he doesn't have social either, so I'm hoping I can capture him.
Managed to capture McDowell the Pirate, but Sarai shot his eye out in the process. Ah well, I'll still give the new recruitment thing a try, especially since I only have three pawns and I favor big colonies in general. I didn't have much set up for living space or rooms yet so I had to move everyone's bed out of the barracks and into the common area so I could lock McDowell up there instead.
Day 9: The colony wakes up to some cargo pods with megasloth wool. I'll take it.
Later the same day a group of tribespeople wanders by, but they don't have anything to trade.
Just checked on Mel, who's been feeding and working on McDowell's resistance. In her social tab: "Mel promised intimacy to McDowell, and asked him to join." Mel! He's more than twice your age!
[Updated to 1.0.1969 and added "Progress Renderer" mod for easy progress screenshots]
Day 12: I'm starting to realize the complications of having my best cook be the same person as my best plant cutter and my best warden. I've had a low food warning for a couple of days now because I'm trying to juggle Mel between duties and apparently not doing a great job of it. Going to let her focus on cooking for a bit and put a hold on construction until Sarai gets enough stone block made to use instead.
Day 14: Raid time! This one shows up exactly at midnight, another lone pirate. Bah. She has absolutely awful stats, so I guess McDowell won't be getting any cellmates. I almost feel bad for how quickly they trounced her. Ah well, back to bed everyone!
Food shortage continues, just barely keeping above starvation despite Mel cooking full time and Glasses hunting as she runs out of things to butcher. I don't remember having this much trouble with food in either of my previous games. I wonder if it's just a case of not having a competent harvester to go nab berries while someone else cooks.
McDowell is still above 10% recruit resistance. I could really use another competent member right now but I do think it's more realistic that a captured enemy won't just flip sides immediately now.
Day 15: As midnight hits I get two plague notifications. It's Mel and McDowell. McDowell is a whatever but Mel is a huge loss even if it's just her recovery time. Just have to see how it goes, but only 40% tend quality on her does not bode well.
Glasses, the doc, got food poisoning from eating raw meat since we don't have a cook.
Day 16: Again right at midnight (this is getting a bit odd) a 28 year old bartender named Tom is looking for shelter from pirates. I'm going to risk it, hoping that Tom can help with cooking duties and handle social duties. The plague immunity progress looks promising on both patients, too.
Tom's a mixed bag. He only has 2 in cooking (from the Bartender bonus) but he's a better doctor than Glasses and has a 9 social with burning passion in both. But that high medical isn't just from his Medical Assistant childhood; he also has Sickly.
Two raiders this time, one of whom looks fairly strong, but Sarai, Glasses, and Tom (with McDowell's crappy autopistol) take them down easily enough.
As if on cue, Mel has the corpse obsession mental break (and my one grave is way over on the edge of the map) and McDowell gets the flu to go with his plague right as the raiders fall. Great. I have never been hammered like this before in the early game, but I'm guessing it's because of the disease chance in the rainforest. I truly don't know which is worse for the plague, getting the crap kicked out of you and arrested or walking across the map to dig up a corpse. Her immunity has a 14% lead on the disease, so I risk letting her go.
One of the raiders, Feeb, survived so I put her on a sleeping spot in McDowell's cell since she's a cook and I need one of those who isn't Mel pretty badly. Of course, she has a permanent eye injury from the fighting as well, but at least it's only half of her vision in that eye.
Tom decides that now, at 4am with two plague patients—one with the flu and the other out digging up a dead raider—a doc with food poisoning, near starvation conditions, and another prisoner who he's actively treating for life-threatening wounds, is a good time to throw a party. I've decided I like Tom. When I think about it, I totally get his wanting to throw a "Hooray, I'm alive!" party. I'm only sorry I don't have any booze for the poor bugger.
It just occurred to me that the food and wood problems might both be caused in part by all the extra plant life. The pawns might be so busy cutting down useless stuff to clear building areas that they don't have time to harvest the stuff they need. I don't know, but I'll try to keep my eye on it.
Aaaand Mel, who went off to grab a corpse, brings it back and plops it down on the table right in the middle of the party. Amazing. I'm cracking up.
Whew! Both Mel and McDowell have hit 100% immunity on their plague.
Mad tortoise! Holy crap has this been an eventful day, and it's not even nighttime yet (15h).
[Updated to 1.0.1970]
Still Day 16, 21h: The killer tortoise fiiiinally made its way to the base, interrupting a spirited game of horseshoes. Poor Sarai got bit on the leg, but the turtle has been dealt with.
Day 17: Just as I was thinking it was nice to have a little bit of calm for a day, another raid notice pops up at 15h. Just a single tribal type with a shortbow. Note: The shortbow has a typo in the description (it says "A simple short selfbow made from a single piece of wood"). Since she wants to "prepare" before she attacks I go on with my day for a bit, trying to give my best fighter a chance to finish harvesting some berries.
Right as he harvests the last one she decides to attack. She does not live to regret the decision.
A wild man wanders in right before the raider goes down, an engineer named Zeiph. He's got decent skills and I'm starting to get on top of the food situation, but I don't have anyone with high enough Animal skill to try it. Bah. Love the new Wild Man event, though!
Day 19: A cassowary takes offense to Glasses hunting it and goes on the attack. Unfortunately for it, it was right in front of the settlement's main room and all four colonists gang up on it without me even having to intervene.
Day 20: Finally have a walled area near enough to done that I can get some farming started. Yes, I should have had this done an age ago, especially since I've been having some food struggles. With Mel as my only half-decent farmer I'll have to switch her back and forth between sowing and cooking but it's better than not having any food crops at all.
Female psychic soothe event! Mel and Sarai should be happier for a while, at least.
Day 21: Thrumbo wanders in.
McDowell's resistance is finally gone thanks to Tom's not-terrible people skills. Hopefully I can get him soon. Mel could definitely use a hand keeping this lot fed.
Eclipse event happens, meaning my rice is getting delayed by a day.
Day 22: Woo! Finally get McDowell to join! Tom succeeds with a 56% chance. McDowell's difficulty is in the 60s, I think, with mood right around half
I'm out of meat and the wildlife tab, while packed, has nothing safe left on it. We're down to a bunch of elephants, a bunch of rhinoceros, the thrumbo, and the wild man. I'd go after a lone elephant or rhinoceros, but there's more than 10 of each and that would end me if they all got revenge. Hopefully we can keep fed on berries until the rice starts coming in.
Day 23: Blight. Have to scrap some of the rice now, and hope I get it before it spreads.
Zeiph, the wild man who's been hanging around for a while, decides that Glasses looks tasty. Glasses has time enough for several shots with his starter bolt-action but Glasses fails to hit Zeiph even once before he's forced into melee. Then for some reason Glasses just stands there getting beat on until I manually order him to melee attack Zeiph. McDowell gets there and starts whacking on Zeiph, too, and Zeiph gets revenge status, thankfully leaving Glasses alone before he goes down. Unfortunately, Zeiph dies to the rifle and revolver bruises.
Tom catches malaria, probably because of the Sickly trait.
I have 13 medicine left. I would reeeeally love to see a trader with some medicine or healroot about now. The last visitor with anything to trade was on Day 4, 19 days ago, and I have yet to see a single caravan.
Even though I have both Patient and Bed Rest set to max priority, Tom decides he'd rather relax socially. I change his bed to medical and set resting as a priority so he'll go lay down.
Day 24: Raid at 2am. Two tribals—one with a poor bow at full HP and another with a poor steel knife at 37%—who are going to "prepare" first. Neither are terrible stat-wise, though one's abrasive and the other has an annoying voice and a peg leg. I leave them alone for now since they're off in a far corner and I'll have plenty of time to draft and position. When they finally attack a few hours later the abrasive one is killed outright at range and the other flees.
Day 25: Still no wildlife other than the herd of elephants and the other of rhinos.
I'm doing a ton of berry harvesting since the rice still isn't ready and I'm starting to become really frustrated by the ingredient fetching AI. I keep having to tell my cook to haul the berries in first instead of walking across the map, grabbing only what she needs for cooking but leaving the rest only to do the same thing again next time. My main hauler has malaria and the secondary is one of the two doing the harvesting or this might not be so bad. I may just "promote" Sarai to temporary hauling duties.
I have the Low Medicine indicator up next to the Low Food indicator now, but at least Tom is almost over that Malaria.
Day 26: Mel gets food poisoning. And then gets it again later the same day. The first time due to a dirty kitchen (Tom is the main cleaner and he's only just now back on his feet) and the second to "incompetent cook". At least she only has herself to blame!
Noticed a social message that has an error in it: "Glasses charmed Glasses by telling a tale about the connection between the disappointment of life and society. Sarai turned her back." Absolutely love the new social messages, by the way.
Day 27: A trader! And there's a bug in the letter. It says "Combat supplier from East Hirahiler (relationship)" instead of saying the relationship. I'm back up to 20 on medicine.
Tom finally breaks through Feeb's resistance and can start recruiting.
Something I'm noticing... Pawns get a mood debuff for being wet, but when they're attending to their recreation they often go wading around in the river of their own accord. If they hate it so much, why do they keep doing it?
Day 28: Good portion of rice finally ready to harvest. Now maybe my poor colonists can spend less time harvesting and hauling berries all over the map.
Still no wildlife besides the elephants and rhinos.
Oh, nice! It looks like McDowell's finally got Plants high enough to grow healroot!
Day 31: Two quadrums in, and the settlement is finally really starting to get its feet under it. This is definitely the toughest of the three starts I've had, even more than the last one in Arid Scrubland with the wood shortage issues. It's almost certainly mostly my own fault for not having growing areas up soon enough. I was trying to avoid a repeat of the issue in the Arid Scrubland where every animal on the map ate my crops as soon as I planted them, but it occurs to me in hindsight that there's plenty of food around for them on this map. At least I've learned that lesson.
Feeb joins! Tom succeeds with a 13% chance. She had 98% difficulty, but I hadn't checked on her mood in a while so I can't speak on that. Now we have another decent cook, and someone who can get good at handling animals.
Day 33: Still nothing out there but elephants and rhinos.
We get our first caravan quest, a request for us to destroy a bandit camp within 15 days in exchange for an orbital targeter (!!). If we'd had a little more time to get on our feet first after my poor start I'd feel better about trying it. On the other hand, it only has one enemy...
Eh, what the hell. I get Glasses and McDowell to start loading up.
Day 35: While on the quest map heading towards the outpost, McDowell contracts the plague. Ouch.
The attack itself goes incredibly well. Rather than risk the trip back just yet I claim the enemy base and get started tending McDowell.
During the night Mel and Feeb contract muscle parasites. If those are just from being in the rainforest, this biome is brutal.
I'm also officially disappointed that I can't uninstall this outpost's solar panel and take it back with me.
I take advantage of McDowell's down time to hunt and butcher some wild boar and harvest wild berries. At least I can return with some leather and food.
Manhunter pack. Of cobras. Thankfully the "pack" is only one. It's also made of meat... The little jerk bites off Sarai's right ear, but the colonists are otherwise unharmed.
Day 36: McDowell finally caps immunity, so I have him help with the berry harvest until we get kicked off the map. I'm insanely jealous of all the wildlife at this outpost, but I doubt any of the meat would make it back to the settlement if I tried to take it with me.
McDowell gets food poisoning from eating berries.
Day 37: Psychic Drone (low, female) hits the settlement.
Day 38: Glasses and McDowell set out first thing in the morning with a decent haul of berries, some leather, and all the furniture they could carry. McDowell's thankfully over the food poisoning, but the plague still lingers.
Sarai, who wields a knife, gets shooting frenzy. Whee.
A solar flare hits. Finally, something bad that I can ignore.
Cargo pods fall with wort. No refrigeration yet because I've hardly had time for research (probably another mistake on my part), and no beer tech either.
Day 39: Fiend, the colony's pet red fox that came with the starting scenario, reverts to the wild because no one ever had the skill to handle her.
Glasses and McDowell return.
Day 40: Rare thrumbo event. Still not much I can do with that.
Still just the elephants and rhinos otherwise. Well, other than Fiend, who I just don't have the heart to hunt. It's not her fault we didn't have any skilled trainers.
Day 43: Heat wave hits.
155 free Wort rots away.
Day 44: Still only elephants and rhinos. Even Fiend appears to have wandered off. Once the massive kitchen/freezer construction project I'm working on is finished I may break down and hunt some pachyderms. Assuming the heat wave doesn't chase them off, of course.
There are still some berries scattered around the map. I really wish there was a "make this a hauling priority" toggle for item stacks.
Day 45: Heat wave is over, pachyderms are still here. Kitchen/freezer draws ever closer to completion.
Spot an elephant away from the pack and send Glasses after it. It goes vengeful as expected but Glasses gets the job done before it gets to him. Success!
Day 46: 2am Raid! A group of four pirates who plan to "prepare" and then attack. Two clubs, a knife, and an autopistol. They seem content to derp around in a pseudo-cave for a while, so I let my colonists get their sleep.
The actual attack begins around 7am. The colonists kill two of the melee types easily and send the other pair packing.
I'm enjoying the spacing and difficulty of the raids so far. They're frequent enough that I need to be aware of them and have defenses in place, but not terribly punishing. The difficulty in this biome is more the biome itself, and that's more the type of play that I enjoy.
Oh, yeah. Three quadrums down.
Day 47: Cats join event. The colony now has 10 (!!) cats. I'm not as upset by this as you might think, since it will give my novice animal handlers some practice. Definitely would have preferred something trainable, though...
[Ran out of space, heh. Continued in the next post.]
[attachment deleted due to age]
Day 48: A compact machinery meteorite lands JUST south of my base. Beauuuutiful. I seem to run critically short of components before I really have the means to get more.
I catch two more elephants isolated from the herd and draft my shooters to take them out. The fridge isn't done yet, but it should be by the end of the day. McDowell has to fight one of them hand-to-hand for a little bit but fortunately he only sustains minor injuries.
Tom throws another party. I like to think it's to celebrate the base finally getting the power turned on. Good job, Tom!
Day 49: Manhunter pack. Three labrador retrievers this time. Here's hoping I can down them and tame them as haulers.
I manage not to kill two of them, but they manage to give Mel an eye scar (only down to 5/8, thankfully) and bite off Feeb's left pinky. Fortunately the two I'm healing up are a male and a female, so I can breed more going forward so long as I get them both.
Tom heals one up nicely with healroot and the other one wanders around the room I stuck them in bleeding all over everything. I'll have to be extra quick when it passes out. Nice! Tom established a bond with the second one as he's healing her. First step complete!
The cats are all starving to death since there's no small game on this map whatsoever. I decide to axe all but three of them.
Day 52: Item stash quest for resurrector mech serum. Ugh. I want it, but it's pretty far away and I'm not risking a nasty ambush like I saw in my previous playthrough. Maybe once I have drop pods I'll be a bit more adventurous about that stuff.
Day 53: McDowell manages to tame the other lab, finally. Also, allow me to join the chorus of voices asking that the "Follow master" settings be off by default.
[Updated to 1.0.1971]
Day 56: Raid, this one at 2am by three tribals with shortbows, attacking immediately. Glasses gets downed but the colonists kill two of the tribals and the last starts running. I have the two available melee colonists (Mel is rescuing Glasses) chase her down with hopes of capture, but she dies too—apparently to a mace bruise since that's the only non-gunshot wound on her. Yep, "bruise in the torso caused Lion to die". The number of raiders has been small, but I haven't downed any instead of killing any since day 16, when Tom was chased in by two of them and Feeb survived.
I have a few construction projects that are ongoing: finishing the floor in the kitchen freeze, a couple kitchen furnishings, enlarging the bedrooms, and putting up a new building to hold some generators. There are more I really need/want to get on, like flooring for nearly every building, paving outdoor areas, a big rec room/dining hall, new warehouse, hospital, big general freezer, another watermill... but I don't have the people to do it with any speed. It doesn't help that Sarai is my only colonist with more than 4 in Construction.
Realize Tom has been sleeping and ignoring wounded colonists and wake his butt up to go handle things.
Day 57: Cargo pods at midnight. Wort again.
Day 58: Incapacitated refugee quest pops up. Giggles the 41-year-old mental patient. I've heard things that sounded more promising, heh. It's less than a day away, but there are three enemies there. I wish Glasses was healthy... I'll wait and see how long it takes him to get back to 100%. If I can still save her once he's up I'll very strongly consider it.
Day 60: Raid, 1am. Four pirates attacking immediately, armed with two poor autopistols, a poor steel knife, and an awful steel mace. Fortunately, Glasses is up again. This clearly delays any possible rescue op, though. Three dead, the fourth fleeing. Nevermind. Four dead.
Still no non-pachyderm wildlife, and I haven't caught any away from the herd in a while. Nothing but simple meals since not long after the freezer came online.
That's one year done, and a post that's probably MUCH too long.
Daily map screens: https://imgur.com/a/7I055h6 (https://imgur.com/a/7I055h6)
Ugh... leighton the wonder dog... is there any way that changing zones for animals could trigger them to update their movement sooner? I tell him to go into hiding before every raid but usually it's way too late. He'll be just a stump before long.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Wintersdark on July 22, 2018, 12:58:19 AM
Hmmm. Rescued a escape pod guy, healed him up, then he immediately walks right over multiple traps.
Shouldn't friendly - blue named - pawns avoid traps?
Yes, it's a known bug.
I've had multiple times where someone dies from an infection too early, and finally noticed that it somehow revolves around loading a saved game. For example, let's say that Bob survives some infection at 100% immunity and 85% infection. As long as the infection/survival played out fully, he lives. But load a save when Bob has anything... like 75% immunity and 50% infection, or 95/80, etc etc. Each time, within about 10 seconds, he dies from infection. It's like an alternate time-line, in a way. I've confirmed this multiple pawns, games, and dev builds within the last week. Here's a screenshot from the most recent victim. (https://imgur.com/a/DyjvmSW) In this case, I don't know which he died from, but the Left Arm infection was at 90% immunity, 73% infected. If there's a useful way to be more specific with these findings, like I'm missing some vital situational info, let me know.
Quote from: callmewoof on July 22, 2018, 03:19:21 AM
I've had multiple times where someone dies from an infection too early, and finally noticed that it somehow revolves around loading a saved game. For example, let's say that Bob survives some infection at 100% immunity and 85% infection. As long as the infection/survival played out fully, he lives. But load a save when Bob has anything... like 75% immunity and 50% infection, or 95/80, etc etc. Each time, within about 10 seconds, he dies from infection. It's like an alternate time-line, in a way. I've confirmed this multiple pawns, games, and dev builds within the last week. Here's a screenshot from the most recent victim. (https://imgur.com/a/DyjvmSW) In this case, I don't know which he died from, but the Left Arm infection was at 90% immunity, 73% infected. If there's a useful way to be more specific with these findings, like I'm missing some vital situational info, let me know.
I know that pain kills people. Would you like to try it once with an yayo or go-juice? You can feed through surgery.
Quote from: Tynan on July 21, 2018, 10:11:11 PM
Quote from: Koek on July 21, 2018, 05:52:13 PM
Unfinished: The menu for crafting apparel needs to be updated for all the new leather types. It still shows the old menu.
What menu is this?
My mistake, on closer examination it seems fine. I'll double check next time before posting.
New build. Just some miscellaneous weekend updating.
As always, please play it before discussing it, and I'd love to see the debug history graphs.
-----
Fix: Prisoner tab can be missing key information in case of bad translation or unexpected extra text.
Hunting stealth: Made a new stat called "Hunting stealth" based on Animals and Shooting skills. It affects the chance of a hunted animal going manhunter. Added Animals as a relevant skill to Hunting.
Disabled normal raids during raid sequence with Randy Random. Optimized Randy Random incident selector. Fixed bugs in the test storyteller output with Randy Random.
Rewrote ThreatCycle storyteller component into OnOffCycle component. It is now state-free, repeatable, and easier to configure and predict. Disabled normal threat cycle raids during the ship start sequence.
Animal stats card always says yes or not whether it's a pack animal.
-Debuff devilstrand so it's in line with good leathers. -Wood does not deteriorate. -Reduce ship part health. -Reduce tree sow time. -Remove wild megascarabs since they can't eat plants anyway.
Text adjustments.
Had a conversation with someone on steam forums, got salty, and it was about 1.0 feedback so it's pretty relevant. I was asking him why he doesn't just lower the difficulty, and ultimately it ended in this post. He kind of is right:
"Raid power scales infinitely. It always was this way, but with good static defences you can withstand overwhelming forces reliably. But 1.0 enforces direct combat. At year 4 on normal I have 1:20 ratio with pirate raids. Twenty pirates against each one of my colonists, including non-violent and inept in combat. On base builder I'll get 15, and 20 would be year later."
If medium and below is supposed to be more of a story that eventually leads to a ship launch despite dealing with adversity and setbacks, it really isn't that. This is also something madman has been getting at in this thread: medium and lower difficulties keep relentlessly adding more and more raiders just like other difficulties.
Some people can handle the drop pods and massive swarms of enemies and get rocket launchers and orbital strike beams. For people wanting to just build a colony and do a shootout every now and then, this doesn't exactly work. I've expressed my thoughts on solutions to this on the suggestions forum, but I'm seeing a lot of these kinds of posts on the steam forums and don't wish to see a review bombing when the game does get released.
That did actually happen a bit to darkest dungeon when they tried to do exactly the kinds of thing that's going on in 1.0 here (dealing with cheap tactics like stalling, etc), they're now gone from very positive to mostly positive in recent reviews.
Bug (probably): You can't haul healthy prisoners to cryptocaskets. They need to be hurt first. Which is a really strange condition to have despite the fact colonists don't need to be like that.
Quote from: Greep on July 22, 2018, 05:35:44 AM
Raid power scales infinitely.
At year 4 on normal I have 1:20 ratio with pirate raids. Twenty pirates against each one of my colonists, including non-violent and inept in combat
On base builder I'll get 15, and 20 would be year later.
medium and lower difficulties keep relentlessly adding more and more raiders just like other difficulties
Thanks for the pass-along. This is something I'm thinking about while making adjustments.
The thing is, unless there's a bug or something, or he's modding, none of these statements is actually true.
I'd really love to hear specific instances of something like these, especially if savegames can be provided.
But as it's designed/implemented right now:
-Raid strength curves off at high levels, it will never scale infinitely
-Separately from that, raid contribution from wealth curves off at high levels, reducing to 1/4 around 1 million wealth
-Lower difficulties adapt up slower, so a lower rate of damage taken will cancel the adaptation totally. Unless you never have a colonist downed ever, raids absolutely will not scale up infinitely, and they'll take years of game time to even hit 2x even if you never have a colonist downed.
-You can build and sustain very powerful turret defenses. They're not all in one killbox, but if you've got some lanes through your base you can cover them with turrets too.
Of course none of that nullifies the
perception of what you're talking about. Some of that perception is likely just out of date from earlier builds of 1.0. I'd be very interested in up-to-date and
specific, reproducible instances of what you're talking about. A savegame exhibiting these situations would be wonderful.
Debug History Graphs:
New game, started tonight.
Naked Brutality
Cassandra/Rough/Temperate Forest - ~37 days
Version 1971
(https://i.imgur.com/pIeF9mo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/vOic562.png)
I think it's mostly the type of people who produce wealthy colonies with lots of good rooms and food supplies. Most players on this forum are savvy enough to invest more in some form of security than in luxurious colony settings.
The 1:20 raider comment is obviously hyperbole, unless he miswrote that and meant just 20. I'll see if I can wheedle a save game out of him :)
Regarding killboxes: Some people can adapt to 1.0 drop pods/sappers, some can't. My killbox on a flat map even is going quite strong and has given 0 deaths so far, will post an update :D Tons and tons of body parts lost, though.
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 05:11:01 AM
-Debuff devilstrand so it's in line with good leathers.
Imo devilstrand should be better than leathers. And significantly better. It takes a lot of time to grow it, while all you need to get leathers is a combat worthy colonist, an LMG and a megasloth. Combine those - bam, leathers. No research, no sowing, no maintaining temperature on harsh biomes. Just a bit of violence.
It might sound presumptious, but opinion of one guy probably playing year-round grow season saying its too OP, because he can sow a crapton and then get full devilstrand wearing colony shouldn't be a reason valid enough for a nerf to it. You won't be able to consistently grow tons of devilstrand on harsher biomes and even on a temp forest with only 30 growing days its not that easy, unless you invested into having several greenhouses, which eat a lot of power and need heating to function through winter.
Please consider buffing devilstrand back.
Quote from: Greep on July 22, 2018, 02:11:14 AM
Ugh... leighton the wonder dog... is there any way that changing zones for animals could trigger them to update their movement sooner? I tell him to go into hiding before every raid but usually it's way too late. He'll be just a stump before long.
B18, set master-> change zone-> master draft.
1.0, set master-> change zone-> check follow when draft-> master draft-> wait 1sec-> uncheck follow when draft. -> master redraft
I am always telling me to return it to b18 again.
What's the usage case here? You guys are using animal areas to micromanage animals? Sort of like ordering them around in combat?
Not quite. I'll get a raid warning and some raiders come from the edge of the map. I'll zone them to go hide in their rooms. You'd expect they would eventually get there in time but more often than not the raiders will actually get to them first before they even decide to move back to base.
I ve seen some guy on youtube use restriction zones for animals as waypoints to set wolf\warg ambushes for enemy shooters, hiding animals in small rooms. It was rather effective, all he needed to do then is hit "Release" command and enemies were pretty much instantly forced into uneven melee.
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 06:06:14 AM
What's the usage case here? You guys are using animal areas to micromanage animals? Sort of like ordering them around in combat?
https://i.imgur.com/wVRK83D.png
It is used to save this dog.
Where animals are expected to be attacked, animals should be sent immediately to safe areas.
Currently, animals do not respond to zone changes for very long periods of time.
And I use animal areas very much. Especially excluding drug room.
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 06:06:14 AM
What's the usage case here? You guys are using animal areas to micromanage animals? Sort of like ordering them around in combat?
I always have 3 areas for animals:
1. Grazers - basically keeping grazing animals from wandering off too far and nothing else, it's a large zone and I constantly need to remove parts when I build up my base, annoying but useful
2. Safe Zone - a zone to send animals to during raids so they don't randomly die, because for whatever reason harmless farm animals are mercilessly slaughtered not just by mechs but every attacker
3. Hauler Zone - usually I mark a few areas I don't want them to go (maybe fields if I have herbivores, freezer etc.) and then invert the area. Basically it's the whole map aside from a few key areas I don't want them to go to eat stuff I don't want them to.
Quote from: East on July 22, 2018, 04:46:47 AM
Quote from: callmewoof on July 22, 2018, 03:19:21 AM
I've had multiple times where someone dies from an infection too early, and finally noticed that it somehow revolves around loading a saved game. For example, let's say that Bob survives some infection at 100% immunity and 85% infection. As long as the infection/survival played out fully, he lives. But load a save when Bob has anything... like 75% immunity and 50% infection, or 95/80, etc etc. Each time, within about 10 seconds, he dies from infection. It's like an alternate time-line, in a way. I've confirmed this multiple pawns, games, and dev builds within the last week. Here's a screenshot from the most recent victim. (https://imgur.com/a/DyjvmSW) In this case, I don't know which he died from, but the Left Arm infection was at 90% immunity, 73% infected. If there's a useful way to be more specific with these findings, like I'm missing some vital situational info, let me know.
I know that pain kills people. Would you like to try it once with an yayo or go-juice? You can feed through surgery.
Pain does not kill people and the linked screenshot shows the real reason: The body parts efficiency hit 0% and since it is a vital body part it means the pawn dies. Infections on the highest extreme stage reduce body part efficiency by 70% so in combination with more injuries on that part it is easy to get to 0%.
If you have an infection on a high damages vital body part, you need to take care of this and use better medicine where available or replace it or use luci / healer serum / cryptosleef if everything fails and you want to keep the pawn.
@Tynan: I think this problem is quite common and I explain that to a lot to people. Maybe add this as a reason to the death message, like "[Pawn] died of an infection. Reason: Vital body part malfunctioning." (or a better description of cause)
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 05:52:18 AM
Quote from: Greep on July 22, 2018, 05:35:44 AM
Raid power scales infinitely.
At year 4 on normal I have 1:20 ratio with pirate raids. Twenty pirates against each one of my colonists, including non-violent and inept in combat
On base builder I'll get 15, and 20 would be year later.
medium and lower difficulties keep relentlessly adding more and more raiders just like other difficulties
Thanks for the pass-along. This is something I'm thinking about while making adjustments.
The thing is, unless there's a bug or something, or he's modding, none of these statements is actually true.
Yeah, I gotta go with Tynan on this, I've played further than year 4 on higher difficulties than "normal" (I presume he means medium), and I've never been outnumbered more than 1.5 to 1 in recent builds, maybe 2 to 1 in earlier ones. That's either a case of a broken mod, a bug, somebody making every damn thing in their base out of solid gold or something (not even sure if that would be enough), or somebody's been telling porkies :P
I think it was just an exaggeration. I've asked him to come post here in any case. Either way, exaggeration or no, if he's experiencing what he feels are overwhelming raids that ultimately whittle him down to nothing on just medium by the time he has made it all the way to year 4, I feel like this is something that would need looking into.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 22, 2018, 05:44:24 AM
Bug (probably): You can't haul healthy prisoners to cryptocaskets. They need to be hurt first. Which is a really strange condition to have despite the fact colonists don't need to be like that.
In B18, prisoners and animals would need to be anesthetized first; the option to carry to cryptosleep would then appear. I haven't yet used cryptosleep pods in 1.0, but see if that works for you.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 22, 2018, 05:58:27 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 05:11:01 AM
-Debuff devilstrand so it's in line with good leathers.
Imo devilstrand should be better than leathers. And significantly better. It takes a lot of time to grow it, while all you need to get leathers is a combat worthy colonist, an LMG and a megasloth. Combine those - bam, leathers. No research, no sowing, no maintaining temperature on harsh biomes. Just a bit of violence.
It might sound presumptious, but opinion of one guy probably playing year-round grow season saying its too OP, because he can sow a crapton and then get full devilstrand wearing colony shouldn't be a reason valid enough for a nerf to it. You won't be able to consistently grow tons of devilstrand on harsher biomes and even on a temp forest with only 30 growing days its not that easy, unless you invested into having several greenhouses, which eat a lot of power and need heating to function through winter.
Please consider buffing devilstrand back.
From the sounds of it with the current armor system, it sounds like good leather should be buffed to devilstrand's level. I feel pretty vulnerable even in plate which is much better than leather, although I feel extremely durable in good quality power armor.
Thrumbofur is what i think the only leather type material, that should have comparable or better stats than devilstrand. Things like bearskin, elephant skins and etc. should be a notch worse. If leathers will have same or better stats than devilstrand - why would you ever waste time researching it, time and space for sowing it (and power if you are on a harsh biome\winter), when you can just go shoot some animals for fun and get the stuff that is basically the same?
I d prefer devilstrand be even harder to get (yet more grow time, plant skills restriction etc), than a stat nerf. You ll be more or less 100% forced to switch to power armor later anyway.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 22, 2018, 06:10:16 AM
I ve seen some guy on youtube use restriction zones for animals as waypoints to set wolf\warg ambushes for enemy shooters, hiding animals in small rooms. It was rather effective, all he needed to do then is hit "Release" command and enemies were pretty much instantly forced into uneven melee.
I'd call this heavy micromanagement (more than I'd prefer to setup and do) and a good, rarely used tactic. Not something your average player does or would think to do. Not the sort of thing that would need to have the game built around by any means. I'd hate to see every creative solution people come up with get nerfed like an exploit. Also with the increased work and maint to animals as well as their raid scaling changes it actually gives them a little more reason to be used again.
I agree that animals move to their reassigned zones way to slowly. Pasture animals are generally a loss for me as well unless I get lucky.
I wish animals could be trained for a limited draft really... like when in the vicinity of their master, they could be drafted if trained several more levels in obedience and have advanced intelligence. That d eliminate the need for excruciating micro masochism with zones.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 22, 2018, 05:58:27 AM
Imo devilstrand should be better than leathers. And significantly better. It takes a lot of time to grow it, while all you need to get leathers is a combat worthy colonist, an LMG and a megasloth.
Agreed. It's the same with wool really. You invest a lot of time and resources into it, but at the end it's not truly better than trivially easy leather. Wool was OP before true, but it and devil strand need to have a benefit that it's proportional to how difficult it is to get.
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 06:06:14 AM
What's the usage case here? You guys are using animal areas to micromanage animals? Sort of like ordering them around in combat?
Not for combat really. When I have hauling dogs I use an animal area to keep them out of the freezer and restrict them to an area somewhat close to the base. So they don't wander all over the map.
And maybe a safe zone later on when fights become crazy or during an infestation.
Quote from: Lanilor on July 22, 2018, 06:17:11 AM
Pain does not kill people and the linked screenshot shows the real reason: The body parts efficiency hit 0% and since it is a vital body part it means the pawn dies. Infections on the highest extreme stage reduce body part efficiency by 70% so in combination with more injuries on that part it is easy to get to 0%.
If you have an infection on a high damages vital body part, you need to take care of this and use better medicine where available or replace it or use luci / healer serum / cryptosleef if everything fails and you want to keep the pawn.
@Tynan: I think this problem is quite common and I explain that to a lot to people. Maybe add this as a reason to the death message, like "[Pawn] died of an infection. Reason: Vital body part malfunctioning." (or a better description of cause)
I posted a similiar situation to OP when I first came back to the forums a bit back for 1.0. It definitely could use maybe a bit more explanation somehow. Do infections cause HP loss randomly somehow though during its run up? I've had the same situation as op but reversed. Colonist died when he was very far ahead of beating his infection, I reloaded, second time he didn't die. No changes what so ever, he never left the bed, nor did he get any more treatments because he was already really high at the save point. I posted it to the forums after it happened a second time because I thought it was a bug. One of those times the person did have a bunch of other bandaged wounds, but the other they did not.
Being it happened so far back and I was on a permadeath run I didn't have a save to provide at the time. I haven't had it come back up again but I stopped playing perma for a while specifically so I can capture save stuff when strange things happen. lol.
Use the save file in my article on page 204 to identify the zone.
1. When an enemy attack comes, the dog comes into the base. Otherwise, it is set as the whole area excluding drugs room. (So I hate integrating zoning and animal areas.) Therefore, it is necessary to change the zone of the dog at once.
2. If enemy attacks are inside the base, I will evacuate to safe area. A little feed is there.
3. I set up a grazing animal zone. Cows, muffalo Usually eat grass outside. I set them not to go to the farm area.
4. Focus the chicken in one place.
I haven't checked the new build yet, at work, 3 more hours.. but...
On the devilstrand discussion, I also feel like it should be above the hunted leathers for sure with the exception of Thrumbo. With its crazy long growing time it means that is never early game viable for anyone who isn't in a super long grow biome anyway. It dies from being too cold. By the time you are capable of throwing down grow lights and providing the whopping 2900 power required to build an indoor soil garden you easily could have killed hundreds of megaslothes, bears, handful of thrumbo, etc.
In regards to the wool's, I think its mostly a niche item. If you play extreme biomes like cold snap coldest on ice sheet you NEED parkas made of that stuff to survive. Yes its not super useful in most standard plays, but we have lots of other options for armor and such for those biomes anyway. Sometimes its nice to make a super nice wool toque for a nudest as well. I dont think they need to change really. The armor values seem really low but we don't need more materials with the same armor values anyway.
There's redundant research on the sniper turret.
It needs Microelectronics, the auto cannon and precision rifling. The latter two also need Micro electronics. You can't fulfill those two requirements without already having microelectronics, thus having microelectronics as a research prerequisite for the sniper turret is redundant.
Speaking of Areas I had at many occasions wanted the ability to Clone them. Like for when a Toxic Fallout hits I may want my animals to have the same areas as my colonists but NOT the freezer.
Also about animals in general, I found that if you tame a bunch of them. Even just Alpacas you dominate early game. Raids become a no-issue with animals until they start bringing the bigger guns.
Further investigation: Dude on steam was indeed using mods and wasn't exaggerating about the raid sizes. It struck me that there may not even be a raid limiter mod, so I guess I know what I'm doing when this branch gets a bit more stable.
In any case: I do think it'd be a good idea if medium on b18 at least translates to medium on 1.0. Which I don't think it quite does at the moment.
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 22, 2018, 06:51:43 AM
With its crazy long growing time it means that is never early game viable for anyone who isn't in a super long grow biome anyway.
With the growing time and dying of cold, devilstrand may be too much dependent on the biome.
But even on a tile with shorter growing time, you can plant it on rich soil and/or harvest before 100%. I haven't tried the extreme, but it should be possible to to that even on 20/60 growing season or less.
And that way with early research you can craft devilstrand apparel after 30 days or maybe a bit more.
The availability of leather also varies on the biome. If you play a forest, you easily have excessive amounts of it later, some other biomes are a bit rarer and extreme desert has almost no animals.
I would also prefer other limitations for it. In general I like it when not every colonist just has the same perfect equipment I can craft. Imo it fits the style of rimworld to have limited resources and make the best out of it, so one pawn gets the leather duster of rhinoleather I could get, while the next gets something else ...
Even devilstrand won't be much better than simple cloth if your crafter is crappy for one. I play with only 30 growdays and i can't say i am capable of having full devilstand apparel for every single colonists (even just 3-4 of them) by my first winter. You just don't get so much time. I barely make it with cloth parkas and tuques and sometimes without a good crafter i am even stuck warming my houses up with campfires and people have to go home to avoid hypothermia, since they don't all get parkas.
And also if people choose to go for researching devilstrand, that means they don't research something else, that might be way more useful, so they have to have some benefit for that - good early defensive apparel.
And by next winter i usually already have a couple greenhouses setup, but i still don't use them for devilstrand, as i need food and herbal medicine. Based on that i really don't think devilstrand needed any nerfing and neither i think it should be in line with even good leathers. Its an investment, both in labor, in growing space and in research efforts.
While getting leather comes to just chance - if a megasloth wanders in on you or not.
Well getting devilstrand to grow on cold biomes is nearly impossible without a greenhouse. It isn't just the grow rate + eclipses: one cold snap and it's all gone. I think it's better to balance devilstrand on biomes where it's sane to try and grow it ::)
Yep! Someone on Discord mentioned to me that. 1.0 is really the first time I've actually used cryptocaskets heavily.
Quote from: Greep on July 22, 2018, 08:14:43 AM
Well getting devilstrand to grow on cold biomes is nearly impossible without a greenhouse. It isn't just the grow rate + eclipses: one cold snap and it's all gone. I think it's better to balance devilstrand on biomes where it's sane to try and grow it ::)
Yep. Cold biomes also have other advantages (on top of meaning to be harder than temperate forest) and I think it is good that biomes have a different way to play and feel different.
Seeling the changes to devilstrand ingame now, I think they were a bit extreme. But I guess it was intended to see the reactions and impact of it.
I would maybe go with 110% sharp armor and 280% heat armor to push it a bit more to the armor against fire. Also make them less spamable e.g. with a bit increased sow time.
Oh, being on that it is a bit weird that the plant has a flammability of 100% when it yields highly fire resistant fibers. (Could be explained with that they need to be refined or something of cause). It also makes sense from a balancing perspective though, because otherwise there is no/less danger of raiders bruning down outside fields.
Quote from: Tynan on July 21, 2018, 10:25:07 PM
@Injured Muffalo - You can turn off room stats, it's a toggle in the lower right of the screen. Must have turned it on by accident at some point.
for some reason the T key acts as a toggle for room stats so this could've been what happened. seems inconsistent with the other hotkeys and annoyingly I hit it all the time.
Devilstrand is 38.86 real grow days on a standard soil tile. Thats more then half a year. Add to the fact that you have to research it first, on top of everything else when you just crash to the planet.. food. survival, inital base, etc I think you have to seriously put effort forth to really crank it out by the end of year 1 in your average non-year round biome. That was kind of my point, it takes some serious planning and effort compared to just hunting some megasloths as they wander in, or bears, or elephants, or rhino's or whatever the uber leather of your region of choice is. On top of that most (all?) biomes seem to get at least SOME animal with 'elite' leather. Deviltrand however can't just grow on any ole tile.
I just feel it was actually in a fine place before. It's something to put effort towards, but not SO great that its worth rushing every single time at the sacrifice of something else. Hell sometimes I never even research it. Other times it just worked out really well for that play through and I really utilized it. THe same however could be said about Thrumbo fur, or rhino hide.
On my arid playthrough I had a tribe decked out in all rhino hide on day 2.. This was before the adjustment to hunting of course, but deviltrand should definitely be in a more elite category of protection compared to the ease of hunting some common animals.
Thrumbo are at least super dangerous, even later on if they get on you. Part of the reason door tricks and stuff got messed with, everyone gamed the system becaus they were such a risk for getting your entire arm or leg bitten off lolol.
In regards to leather chance, so far almost every map I've played in 1.0 (not all of them, but the more common ones) have alllwwaays had a fair amount of big game with good leather on a fairly regular basis until the times of year come around they normally leave, like the dead of winter for borreal (then replaced by bears and wolves anyway) or summer in the desert.
Even Ice sheets have polar bears.
Hey Tynan, it seems that this sort of rapid-fire development in the final stretch here is going pretty well. I like how there are changes that come with immediate feedback, and if you take a misstep that doesn't make sense to the community the bad ideas can be immediately walked back. Do you think that doing development this way is viable? How do you think it is going so far? I don't think I have ever seen a developer do a project quite like this.
Keep up the great work! The ability to take feedback and implement it so quickly is why this game is so successful compared to those dastardly AAA guys! I'm looking at you EA! :o
Quote from: Greep on July 22, 2018, 07:23:54 AM
Further investigation: Dude on steam was indeed using mods and wasn't exaggerating about the raid sizes. It struck me that there may not even be a raid limiter mod, so I guess I know what I'm doing when this branch gets a bit more stable.
In any case: I do think it'd be a good idea if medium on b18 at least translates to medium on 1.0. Which I don't think it quite does at the moment.
So he was using a mod that pumps wealth/enemies? How did he get 20 enemies per colonist exactly?
What do you mean about a raid limiter mod?
Doesn't medium generally match the old Some Challenge (or maybe slightly tougher)? That is the general target. Though of course we're not chained to the old levels or anything.
Quote from: Jstank on July 22, 2018, 08:36:53 AM
Hey Tynan, it seems that this sort of rapid-fire development in the final stretch here is going pretty well. I like how there are changes that come with immediate feedback, and if you take a misstep that doesn't make sense to the community the bad ideas can be immediately walked back. Do you think that doing development this way is viable? How do you think it is going so far? I don't think I have ever seen a developer do a project quite like this.
Keep up the great work! The ability to take feedback and implement it so quickly is why this game is so successful compared to those dastardly AAA guys! I'm looking at you EA! :o
Seems to be working fine, you can judge for yourself! Kind of stressful over here, I will step back and evaluate this process more when I have time. Likely the big downside is the possibility of making changes on obsolete/incomplete/poorly-developed feedback. Feedback takes time; people need to adapt to changes, develop strategies, and have many experiences to compare. So doing things in short cycles isn't all upside by any means. Plus there's loss aversion, but I'm pretty used to that.
I think I will put devilstrand up a bit, but maybe not as much as before.
Anyway, this isn't a terrible discussion or anything but I'd really love to hear some more play stories.
I'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.
Just theorycrafting here, but giving leather items some move/work speed penalty for the weight (eg workspeed -5% for a jacket, -10% for a duster), as well as better cold insulation, and give devilstrand a better heat tolerance, could be a good compromise. Devilstrand would be the ideal daily wear while still having good protection material, hence making the effort to obtain it worth it.
I honestly think devilstrand should just have something unique about it. It doesn't need to be as good as before the nerf, because I mostly didn't even get it when it was stronger. Now it feels obsolete.
My last 5-10 playthroughs I avoided devilstrand most of the time, while in B18 and before I grew it nearly all the time. This is partly because of how good some easily attainable leather is, and partly because of how much effort has to be put into the crop. (And partly because I added a few plants of my own design and they take up my fields and are more valuable - these plants are mostly coffee and strawberries, the latter isn't something I added but you can make a drink out of it, so I value berries over rice/corn etc.).
I love playing in boreal forest, which makes devilstrand very hard to grow. My priority is getting enough energy for one sunlamp and growing mostly food, but also cotton and healroot. To get any reasonable amount of devilstrand you need an entire sunlamps radius. And that just is way too much effort.
The problem here is that - even before the nerfs - devilstrand clothing did not feel as good as I thought it should. Real armor is far more valuable and much easier to obtain. I mean even hyperweave can feel pretty lackluster sometimes. That's why I think if devilstrand gave other non-armor related bonuses it might take a special place and become something useful. It could boost movement or work speed, it could give immunity to fire, it could grant toxicity resistance... etc.. Or armor related: It could give a flat damage reduction on top of it's armor, making it super strong against weak attacks (e.g. machine pistol, squirrels etc.) while staying reasonably weak against high damage attacks (sniper shots).
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
Quote from: Greep on July 22, 2018, 07:23:54 AM
Further investigation: Dude on steam was indeed using mods and wasn't exaggerating about the raid sizes. It struck me that there may not even be a raid limiter mod, so I guess I know what I'm doing when this branch gets a bit more stable.
In any case: I do think it'd be a good idea if medium on b18 at least translates to medium on 1.0. Which I don't think it quite does at the moment.
So he was using a mod that pumps wealth/enemies? How did he get 20 enemies per colonist exactly?
What do you mean about a raid limiter mod?
Doesn't medium generally match the old Some Challenge (or maybe slightly tougher)? That is the general target. Though of course we're not chained to the old levels or anything.
Wealth yeah. As for matching difficuty, maybe raid point wise I'm sure (easier earlier, but harder later), but a lot of people on steam rely on killbox type strategies which just completely fall apart if you can't adapt well to 1.0's sappers/drop pods. It's really not that hard, you just need to do some shenanigans to get enemies lured to your turrets or build more turrets around your base, but I think some people don't really care for raids at all and don't want to do any significant work on medium.
As for a raid limiter mod, I just mean making a straight up hard cap with an xml setting, and maybe flags for disabling certain raid types. I know a lot of people wouldn't mind playing with raids being capped at 2k for instance, and some people just don't want to deal with drop pods even if they're fine with sappers/ships/etc. I personally wouldn't use it, though.
I'm trying to understand the thought process here. Because one person said they were swimming in devilstrand, it needed a nerf? I opened up my game this morning to see I could no longer make a new field -- went to the research screen and saw it's requirement had been doubled from 500 to 1000. So it takes longer to research, requires half a year to grow and a really good grower (10+ skill) to sow, but it needs to be on par with leathers that anyone with a peashooter can eventually obtain?
Getting tons of it to outfit an entire colony is only viable in tropical rainforests or temperate forests with year-round growing. Otherwise it's almost not possible to even grow outside of a greenhouse. Greenhouses have been made more expensive with the power usage of sun lamps being increased, meaning you need to feed more steel and more components into more power producers to be able to sustain it. And on colder biomes, greenhouses tend to need to be geared more towards food and medicine...and on top of that, greenhouses are susceptible to solar flares, which can kill your entire crop if it's during the wrong season or the storyteller decides to stack it with a cold snap.
I'm not quite sure why it needed to be nerfed. Especially when armor keeps getting more and more important to have...
Passive cooler: I'm watching a pawn refueling a passive cooler, but the description still says "will run out and vanish after a couple of days"
Also a small suggestion: A toggle button on allowing refueling of the coolers would be nice. This way you don't have to build and remove them every time there is a heatwave.
Or just have them actually vanish like they used too. No preference here.
Cheers :)
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
I'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.
Turrets are not used by me mostly. I do however spread mini turrets around my base to make sappers go where I want them to...
Not going to get a writeup till tomorrow, but I've been playing on a flat arid shrubland, and miniturrets are a lot more useable than they were, I didn't even research cannons till year two. That said, I also ended up building a trap corridor to help cut down on maintenance, and they are still 100% replaced by cannons by year 2 (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
They really blow up fast, though. Had a raider mob of about 5 dudes just completely take out four turrets. It was right in the beginning, but since turrets are cheap I was able to recover. 80 hp feels pretty darned fragile. With 100 you kind of feel safe repairing them in battle, at 80 you're pretty close to having them blow up in your face already.
Turrets are not cheap. Most basic turrets also require 60 steel to charge once. Thinking about charging It has become impossible to operate on a large scale as before.(b18) Unless you change the charging system, it will be difficult to use on a large scale. But it's right. The large-scale operation of the turret was not fun with the trap spam.
I was under tremendous steel pressure to operate three autocannons.
If I use spam turrets, I will not be able to supply steel.
Remember deep drill mining speed nerf. steel is really needed for almost everything.
Also, turret weapon reliability is low because it stops because there are no ammunition during combat. However, after the battle, no matter how much ammunition remains in the charge, it can not be recharged because the fixed charge cost is consumed.
I lost my notes from my play last night when my PC hanged (I think some hardware is going bad), but I'll put down what I can remember:
v1971 Cassie Rough, Tundra 10/60
- On day 6 I had 10(!) cats join my colony of 3. Seemed a little excessive. Needless to say, I wasn't prepared to grow food for them and cats are useless anyway, so I built a table and butchered them ASAP.
- The wildlife on tundra is a bit lush. There is almost always a herd of muffalo or ibex or elk to hunt. It doesn't seem to match the tundra description and I felt the shortage of leather/meat added something to tundra.
- Animal migrations pass very quickly. Even acting immediately, hunters often fail to get something.
- Thanks for increasing the tree lifespan. That fixed my issue with trees never reaching maturity on tundras. However, I think that trees are just a bit too dense now. Although pawns have to walk further to chop than in a forest, it doesn't feel like there is any sort of scarcity. I could have a few woodfired generators if I wanted them.
- I feel forced to rush batteries at the start of wood-scarce maps because wind is so unreliable (and half-a-day without heat or warms clothes is to be avoided). I use a generator on wooded maps but on wood-scarce maps wind is all I can afford at the start. Of course, if the tundra/shrubland vegetation stays at the new, higher level then this point doesn't apply to them (but probably still to ice/desert).
- I had a pawn die to infection for unclear reasons. They were going to pull through by a few percent, but mysteriously died instead. Infection was already at extreme and their other wounds were only getting better, so I couldn't figure out why it happened.
- I find myself rushing microelectronics solely for the orbital trade beacon. It feels like this might be better as its own tech under electricity. Local trade doesn't deal in everything, so it can be hard to liquidate items or buy stuff otherwise. (There's a big bump in my colony wealth from when I was awarded a masterwork plasteel hospital bed. I tried to caravan it away but they wouldn't buy.)
- The 'bonded animal death' thought lasts quite a while. Much longer than 'colonist died,' but I haven't had a 'friend died' lately to compare it to that.
- Haven't had a lot of it to work with this game yet, but scar pain felt a little excessive a few patches ago (don't recall any changes mentioned). A pawn with a scar spends the rest of their life with -5 mood (I've never been lucky enough to have a scarred masochist), which I find much more significant than the efficiency loss of the wound. Obviously we only count extreme scars (most wounds never scar), but still it seems like they might acclimatize to the pain (if only for mood, even if not for downed-by-pain). I've been trying to be less picky with pawns, as you've suggested, but it definitely factors in.
- Debug graph below. One pawn killed. The refugee and one other pawn abducted during a refugee-chased event. You'll note that there was a 40-day period with no raids and few other threats, which got a bit dull.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: East on July 22, 2018, 09:44:19 AMHowever, after the battle, no matter how much ammunition remains in the charge, it can not be recharged because the fixed charge cost is consumed.
Yeah this really is awkward. You can of have to play this guessing game of how much turret fire you have left for the next raid, I usually re-arm at about 30% ammo left.
Edit: I'd also say that, unless you're playing an "idealish map" a 100% turret strategy is probably unworkable. Probably a bit too punishing on very hard maps. So the question is whether you think that's fine and people should use a trap/turret combination on these maps. if not, turret maintenance is probably still a bit too high.
Okay, I've got a colony of three, two of which are cannibals. It's cold. There is not much food outside of human meat.
Previously my cannibals would eat human meat before standard meals. With version 1 that no longer seems to happen - my flesh eaters have suddenly become vegetarians and will eat rice dishes in preference of juicy, raw human flesh.
My poor non-cannibal has nothing left after those human-meat eaters turned veterinarians finish the job (he seems to sleep in and is the last up for breakfast - probably all the nightmares about his companions keep him up to the wee hours).
I don't like this change. Please let the cannibals favor raw human flesh over cooked rice meals again.
Please.
...it rubs the lotion into the skin or else it gets the hose again.
Quote from: FleshEater on July 22, 2018, 10:29:11 AM
my flesh eaters have suddenly become vegetarians and will eat rice dishes in preference of juicy, raw human flesh.
Perhaps it is the raw vs cooked which makes them go for prepared rice dishes instead of human meat.
I always play on Randy Random Extreme Naked brutality TRIBAL START!!!!.
I know I love pain.
This time my map was a short winter map with a grower who knows what he is doing.
-Food was no problem this time because my grower was good.
-Security wasn't too bad. I got my walls and trap maze up pretty early because I wasn't concerned with food.
-My second colonists (wander join) was pretty good at mining. They also got married so I didn't have any issues with poor moods. I also have a decent cook so food poisoning didn't hurt me.
FOOD POISONING - If you don't have a good cook you can pretty much guarantee that your playthrough is 100X more sluggish. Getting poisoning on every meal really makes things difficult, you can't accumulate wealth, so your pretty much just stuck until you get a good cook. Randy will just ignore you for months to years because you have no wealth. Food poisoning is really obnoxious on naked brutality.
ANYWHO...
-Randy kept throwing me space refugees. The problem with space refugees is that they are part of a faction now. This makes it so that I really don't want to capture them because they will make the factions angry. I try to rescue them but they never want to join. When they leave they hit my trap maze and die immediately.
-It now takes a looong time to take a prisoner. On my other playthrough it took me 2 or so months to get a recruit. It is tough to grow a colony now.
-On my other playthroughs, I started on an island, which made going to do the quests easier. On those playthroughs, I actually did a lot of the quests as opposed to ignoring them! This one I am not, so the quests are just too far away to be feasible with only two colonists. I would really suggest making it so that your colony wealth can also determine how far away the object is! Honestly, if you want players to do the quests they should really be closer to home.
- The raids have not been too bad. I could handle them except for the one. I got the southern raiders to route easily enough, but the northern raiders decided to bust through my northern door during their route (which they hadn't gotten through before the route.) My plan was to let him bust through the northern door and exit through the southern door, but once the raider got through the door he proceeded to set fire to everything. My weapons consisted of a club and a poor survival rifle. His weapon was a good smg and he had a flack vest. I decided to let him burn through my wood walls. He got to my food stockpile. When he finally left my colony was all but decimated. Good thing he didn't come for the door I was hiding in or that would have been it.
-I built 2 research benches because both my colonists don't research. I am now 60 days in and the only research I have is stone cutting. I have only 2 colonists.
-The cold: Tribals not having warm clothing options at the beginning of the game really makes things difficult. It seems I can never chop enough wood to keep a fire going and also cook food at the same time. I have to babysit them in the winter time or they will wander off very far and get frost bit. I really wish tribals had some sort of coat to craft at the beginning of the game. Not as good as a parka but at least something to keep them safe from the winter. It is really tough for me to start in cold environments with naked brutality for that reason.
-My trap maze would have been more effective if I could place traps adjacent but I think that the change is ok. It seems to be just as effective even if I have to manually fight off the raiders just a little more. Otherwise, I'll just make the trap maze twice as big to compensate.
-I have learned that if you want to make money as a tribe go for selling either phycite tea or smoke joints. In one season I made 1000 silver just from making and selling the tea. It does cost wood.
-I learned that growing and cooking for a starting colonist is essential! If you don't have those two skills the game isn't very fun.
-The big hump for me is getting through electricity research. Even with a good researcher, it takes me FOREVER to get to electricity. Until then I am bogged down with making pemican so that in the winter my food doesn't rot. This puts a huge strain on the wood resources around my base, and those get quickly depleted. It gets harder and harder to find enough wood to cook with. I know you have been decreasing the time it takes to plant a tree, and I do appreciate that tribals get that research. But planting trees is still not very viable. I would just put that back to how it was before. It won't give a buff to outlanders, because they really don't need the trees anyway, but to start a tree farm within the first year would be huge to a tribe. + It would be lore friendly because a tribe is supposed to be one with the environment. Please consider making planting trees a thing again.
-I see no noticeable difference in hunting, with the exception that mega-sloth is off the menu. It is way too dangerous to hunt them, I just ignore them. Otherwise, the other animals don't bother me. I assume that these animals always had a 2% chance to enrage and I just didn't notice it. Printing that out on the wildlife tab just ensures that I understand the mechanic. Good change!
-Weapons: I pick weapons up from raiders. I pretty much ignore the forge because by the time I would be able to make a great bow or long sword I already have survival rifles revolvers, and pistols.
-Changes I would suggest based on my many many playthroughs of this scenario
-lower tribal weapon research so I can hold my own against outlander firepower. I would put great bows on the very left at something like 100 research, and make a primitive forge with low research cost for long swords. This will make it so that great bow long sword get used more.
-Add a tribal coat for winter, please.
-I would really suggest making it so that your colony wealth can also determine how far away the quest object is!
-Have colonist recruitment difficulty scale with colony wealth while also considering the population target.
-The electricity issue for tribals would be helped by making a tree showing a lot more viable. That way I don't have to spend all my days walking further and further for my wood to keep up with heating, cooling, and cooking.
Oh and I forgot to add one more thing. As a tribe it is so very hard to maintain relations with others without a coms console. I always end up being not friends with everyone by years end. If I could do somthing like send smoke signals to other tribes, would be nice!
Quote from: Jstank on July 22, 2018, 11:17:28 AM
-I would really suggest making it so that your colony wealth can also determine how far away the quest object is!
Couldn't disagree more with this. So that when raids get especially dangerous due to same wealth increase, you ll have to send your people out for longer, cause they'll have more world map tiles to cover. So there will be more chance for pirates to attack your weakened colony. Do you really think thats a good idea?
With regards to turrets on my past couple of playthroughs and my current one. Turrets for me are in a hard spot to use. My main use for them now is sapper deterrent. Using mass turrets is just not feasible for me. The reload costs make mass turreting too costly considering that killboxes no longer work (by the time you build one, research turrets etc most raids seem to be sappers and drop pods so mass turrets have no use) and you need to get raider to get close enough and not outrange the small turrets. Raiders often just mindlessly bash on walls rather than cone in and attack especially on scattered raids. I've only really used turrets a few times in 1.0 as I've not found a use for them, maybe when I get a colony with 300k+ wealth then I'll need them to help with fight.
My best answer to this is to always give them access to my base so they have something to attack / burn and then ambush them from doorways (my base design revolves around this idea). Even so on a base with no exterior walls I've had enemies break though to a bedroom rather than walk 20 tiles to walk to a corridor to my crops and this was a normal raid not sappers. So instead I have to fight using my colonists far more putting them at much higher risk (especially recent patches with increased one shot chances).
I used to use trap corridors, which I stopped using in 1.0 due to killbox and raid changes, though I did still use them at times to protect corners where i didn't want raider gathering or on sapper paths, now that is gone as you can't cover the spots due to the exclusion zone so the only use traps have to me now is for opening ancient dangers as a tribe and this change just doubled the work needed to do that tactic.
I'm not sure what your defensive vision is for bases Tynan. It seems it's not killboxes (turreted or colonists with guns, I used to do hybrid) nor trap mazes. Colonists standing and fighting behind sandbags with a few turrets scattered around the base? But that just got hit by increased one shots and reduced healing times.
Last night I just planted a large crop of devilstrand, it took ages, I'm on year round growing and there is still a good chance I'll only get to harvest 50% or less. If I was on 30 day then my only option to grow devilstrand would be a greenhouse otherwise you would never harvest any. The time it takes to get is too long compared to leather if they are to be equivalent and it has a skill and research requirement and leather you only need a dude with a gun. Yes you can controllably get devilstrand but it isn't always easy or time efficient to get. As noted in my latest colony started last night I'm just planting devilstrand and all of my colonists are already in top end leather and I have more in storage (admittedly not dusters as they are wearing plate). Maybe allow devilstrand to be used in flak armour to make an upgraded version over using cotton? (devilstrand kind of feels like organic kevlar)
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
I'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.
So far I got 5 (?) mini turrets and 2 mortars from salvaging item stashes and prison camps in around half a year. Not sure if this is intended, but you can clain an uninstall them when the enemy pawns are down and they lost power. I don't like big turret complexes, so I did not invest in researching them, but this way a got a few to just support fighting. And when also gathering other stuff from the incident maps (especially meat and leather), building a drop pot launcher there and sending everything home is quite efficient.
For fighting: The first 2 I got were destroyed quickly in the first raid I had them (was a melee raid). They didn't feel like doing much in the meaning of dealing damage, but they were a nice distraction and the loss of them may have prevented a bigger fire on the fields, so they lived for their value.
I got an infestation triggered on an area of 5 cells overhead mountain. I knew this is possible now, but I didn't expect that at all. The time until they appeared way long enough to even evacuate the slowest pawn. I think it lost all its surprise factor, which removes annoying situations like when it appears in a bedroom and instakills the single pawn in there. So that is the good part but it also is less dangerous. The amount of insects was quite high, although indoor fighting gives enough chokepoints to have an easy time with melee only enemies. My only problem was that 2 of my 5 colonists decided to get a mental break mid fight and walked into the swarm, otherwise it would probably have ended with just minor injuries. So in this case there were 2 colonists downed but nothing dead or lost besides a refinery that was destroyed from a spawned hive.
I'm always missing a "leather" from butchering insects. This is probaly nothing new for you, but they could yield a chitin shell that can be crafted into a niche armor type for more variety. (Or just crafted into plate armor with niche stats like high blunt resistance or a plate armor that doesn't slow so much).
I still think making flak out of Stuff rather than specifically cotton and steel would be a good thing, and might make the devilstrand balance less problematic? Devilstrand-plasteel flak items would be nice, and also fit a bit more into the lore than power armor.
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 05:11:01 AM
Hunting stealth: Made a new stat called "Hunting stealth" based on Animals and Shooting skills. It affects the chance of a hunted animal going manhunter. Added Animals as a relevant skill to Hunting.
This is amazing. The animal handler skill I was barely putting to use, in this run, just gained so much value. And, I'll take any way to reduce that revenge chance, now! D: Have to say, I love this kind of skill-blending and adding subtle complexity. Yum.
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 05:11:01 AM
-Debuff devilstrand so it's in line with good leathers. -Wood does not deteriorate. -Reduce ship part health. -Reduce tree sow time. -Remove wild megascarabs since they can't eat plants anyway.
Not sure I understand this move. Nearly all of my colonies skip Devilstrand, as it is. The growing effort is immense and hunting down some high-revenge animals is actually not that bad, once a colony has few decent shooters. Sure, the leather can take a while to build up (especially bear) but, not nearly so long as it takes to produce Devilstrand, IMHO. Just my two cents, from recent experiences. I'll give more feedback after seeing more of the hunting stealth impact.
Quote from: NeverPire on July 21, 2018, 04:48:10 PM
Quote from: Zombull on July 21, 2018, 04:13:49 PM
Tynan please reconsider the "rotting because outdoors" thing even when the items are safely protected by a roof. I don't know what problem you were trying to solve by going that route but it's silly and just damned annoying.
I agree. In the real life, a porch roof or even any roof is enough to protect items from the weather.
The lack of walls don't affect the quality of items stored.
Only extremes temperatures could damaged outdoors items, and only the most temperature sensitive.
I guess you have designed this to prevent a too simple kind of storage. But don't forget that this unclosed storage is already really weak against stealing and wild animals foraging and so doesn't need to be nerfed, at least in my opinion. I was using it extensively until the 1.0 and it was really usefull to store wood, hay and other ressources coming in large quantities.
This is not at all true. I left some garden shears out on my back (covered) porch. A while later, they're rusted, faded, and quite unhappy with me. Had to oil those suckers.
This element has actually forced me to consider shelves and better storage options, since it became a thing. This kind of consideration feels good. Shelves were too easily neglected (and mitigated in their purpose) already. Perhaps, the levels of degradation from "outdoors" could be specific to biome and the impact it could have (more humid, blowing sands, etc.)
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 22, 2018, 12:20:16 PM
This is not at all true. I left some garden shears out on my back (covered) porch. A while later, they're rusted and quite unhappy with me. Had to oil those suckers. You must not own your own house ;)
Yeah i'd say very, very few items can handle being outside and not turn to crap. Clothing outside or weapons outside (i have experience with both) - it turns to absolute trash and it doesn't take that long either, doesn't take a genius to figure out what moist does, for example.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 22, 2018, 11:50:00 AM
Quote from: Jstank on July 22, 2018, 11:17:28 AM
-I would really suggest making it so that your colony wealth can also determine how far away the quest object is!
Couldn't disagree more with this. So that when raids get especially dangerous due to same wealth increase, you ll have to send your people out for longer, cause they'll have more world map tiles to cover. So there will be more chance for pirates to attack your weakened colony. Do you really think that's a good idea?
My point isn't to make your trip further, but have my trip closer by. I don't want your stuff to spawn further away. I just want the things, in the beginning, to be a bit closer with the max distance where it is currently.
If you say so. But isn't they relatively close by already? Its rarely more than a day or two away, which is infinitely better than it was when caravanning was first introduced. At least i usually get refugees and quests in like 1-2 days of travel.
Instead of making trips shorter, i d rather make diseases much less probable. Because it seems like it procs way too much. If you travel for more than a day, you really risk getting someone plagued.
Traps still seem to be pretty effective, which is good.
Question: has hay been accidentally removed from the things animals eat? I'm in winter at the moment and even with a stockpile full of hay in my barn, all my alpacas are going down with malnutrition.
Quote from: mcduff on July 22, 2018, 01:00:08 PM
Traps still seem to be pretty effective, which is good.
Question: has hay been accidentally removed from the things animals eat? I'm in winter at the moment and even with a stockpile full of hay in my barn, all my alpacas are going down with malnutrition.
In what context are traps still effective? Trap mazes? defending corners or turrets? You can put 4 traps next to the two new large turrets now rather than 12 (these numbers are different if you sandbag turrets first). That's a big loss is coverage and all it does to trap mazes is make them longer if you want to use them or have less traps.
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 05:11:01 AM
-Wood does not deteriorate.
At all?
Is there a reason it can't be "deteriorates outdoors, unless under a roof"?
Quote from: erdrik on July 22, 2018, 01:12:26 PM
At all?
Yeah :(
The other extreme isn't good either. Wood just lying around and rotting is fine. But just keeping it out of direct rain is done all the time:
https://cmeimg-a.akamaihd.net/640/cppd/197/94/fotolia_541128_XS.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/105142427@N03/10295349613
http://stevelarese.com/wp-content/uploads/outdoor-wood-storage-outdoor-wood-storage-home-imageneitor.jpg
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
I'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.
In my experience turrets aren't very workable anymore. With the changes to killboxes generally a more open/dynamic defense set-up is superior, which leaves turrets too spread/exposed/in demand. If I've got four entrances to my base at a time when I get 15-20 raiders, we're talking 2-3k steel just to create a worthwhile set of turrets that won't be useless 3/4 of the time. I could throw 400-800 steel out to get 2 per entrance, but then we have only two turrets that die very rapidly, take a lot of attention, need to be in front of colonists (friendly fire), and are unable to deliver enough damage to protect themselves.
Then the upkeep, while good in principle, makes them even less feasible. First, there is no scaling cost to reload. (as far as I know) So colonists don't reload unless they're close to out, and if you micromanage it it's still a waste of resources. Second, because they aren't reloaded at xx% durability, they run out of shots in fights more often than the raw # of shots statistic would imply.
So they aren't very reliable, they don't do stellar damage, they are prone to friendly fire which creates sub-optimal demands on positioning, they die quickly, they are very costly, and their being stationary has been made much more impactful with recent changes.
Sniper turret in my experience is very good and worthwhile. Much more care needs to be taken because you can't really have the sniper turret in front of colonists, and it one shots friendlies through shield belts. However it does very good work and uranium once you get deep drilling isn't a problem. The range also protects it and increases ROI.
Autocannons in my experience seem to be stuck inbetween sniper and mini in a way that makes them hard to use. If you need up close fighting, or to protect a sniper turret, a couple mini-turrets are probably best. If you need fighting outside of the minimum range, sniper turrets seem to be far more effective. If you're looking at long term returns, steel upkeep is worse and more meaningful than uranium. Autocannons are awful for friendly fire, but the minimum range prohibits putting it in front, and the lower maximum range reduces the number of viable positions compared against the sniper turret.
Most of this from my ship launch run. Wasn't permadeath.
Most recent permadeath run I haven't even built a turret yet, way too much demand for steel on other things and way too many entry points into my base. I might build a sniper turret, but will probably never build minis except to protect it.
TL;DR: Turrets use way too much energy. Switches don't help if you don't use a kill box and have your turrets close together. Additional upkeep is another disincentive. One, two, three turrets don't have much impact on a fight. The explosion is a huge hazard.
To add to this, the cost is just way too high to use turrets outside of kill box or let's say "choke point" scenarios.
First there is the building cost. That isn't too bad, given that they might save your colony and you can't really invest much more into defense, aside from traps which require planning and are even better in choke points.
The new barrel change upkeep - also not too bad in and off itself. It's not that much. However it adds running costs to something that you built and was "just there" so it definitely is a disincentive compared to before. Though, this upkeep only happens if they actually do something, which I find fair.
What kills turrets completely for me, and always has been, the energy requirement. It indirectly adds another layer of costs. The energy drain is constant, so even if they aren't used they require it. If you are running many batteries a switch will do, though it requires a colonist to flick it when an attack comes.
And here the problem starts - if you don't have a choke point or kill box, then your turrets are spread out so you have to flick a lot of switches or build a complicated network of power lines.
Really what I think is needed is turrets to be stronger in general, but weaker if used in high concentration. Basically like the watermill turbulence - it would mean there can only be this many turrets in an area, kill box or not, and then they could be stronger without being too good in choke points.
Also maybe make them require no or very little energy when not in use, without the need for switches.
is this a bug?
an emu has 100% aggressive but a cougar only 10% ?
Quote from: lauri7x3 on July 22, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
is this a bug?
an emu has 100% aggressive but a cougar only 10% ?
No, Emu's are aggressive son's of b****es.
I agree with everything you said, @rdshen. I looked at the XML and the turrets will be auto-reloaded at a different percentage for each type, but having that user-settable would be more ideal.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 22, 2018, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: lauri7x3 on July 22, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
is this a bug?
an emu has 100% aggressive but a cougar only 10% ?
No, Emu's are aggressive son's of b****es.
And apparently it's possible for an unarmed human to intimidate a wild cougar into backing down. I mean,
I wouldn't want to try it, but there are videos of people doing it.
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 22, 2018, 02:29:34 PM
Quote from: lauri7x3 on July 22, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
is this a bug?
an emu has 100% aggressive but a cougar only 10% ?
No, Emu's are aggressive son's of b****es.
Hunting seems too perilous now; especially since the colonists don't flee to the direction of help (base, other colonists). Whenever I have hunting set, I will always have to stop everything to go manage a pawn's escape route, and even then they'll usually end up unconscious because they take their sweet time transitioning from shooting to running.
Also clicking the checkboxes for hunting animals will become temporarily impossible as the warnings about possible revenge cover the checkboxes at the top of the list.
DAE get annoyed that when colonists come back from caravans, their bedding assignments are gone? Also for later in the game, it would be convenient to be able to fulfill trade agreements with transport pods.
Considering the movement speed buffs of most animals now, I think that a re-evaluation of animal combat power ratings is definitely due. For instance, a megasloth now has all-round superior combat stats to a bear (higher health, higher DPS, same 200% ranged accuracy modifier, 4.8 c/s vs bear's 4.6 c/s), yet has a lower combat power rating of 150 vs a bear's 200.
Yeah Megasloths are human butchers now, 2 hits generally end up in one or two limbs off hehe.
I thought we can do this now (this is a very long thread), but if we can't being able to flick switches while drafted would be amazing for turret usage.
Wood should rot when outdoors and uncovered, else not. This was fine as is from previous versions.
Quote from: Crow_T on July 22, 2018, 03:14:21 PM
Wood should rot when outdoors and uncovered, else not. This was fine as is from previous versions.
Hmm.. wood should still rot (albeit more slowly) if left outside on covered bare ground due to absorbing moisture from that surface; however shelves are too small to realistically hold a decent woodpile. Perhaps some sort of larger covered shelf-like structure could be considered for basic perishable resources?
Quote from: lauri7x3 on July 22, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
is this a bug?
an emu has 100% aggressive but a cougar only 10% ?
No, emus are the biggest assholes in the universe
I started up my ship's reactor expecting fifteen days of absolute hell.
I have 5.6 days remaining and I have not gotten a single raid.
EDIT: I had a little more time before work and I fast forwarded through the last 6 days. Reactor is ready, not a single raid or incident.
Hello Tynan,
Is there any possibility that more Tribal background stories will be created for version 1.0? I play tribal colonies a whole lot and I'd really like to see a non-unique Tribal backstory or three that gives a bonus to animals.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 22, 2018, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: mcduff on July 22, 2018, 01:00:08 PM
Traps still seem to be pretty effective, which is good.
Question: has hay been accidentally removed from the things animals eat? I'm in winter at the moment and even with a stockpile full of hay in my barn, all my alpacas are going down with malnutrition.
In what context are traps still effective? Trap mazes? defending corners or turrets? You can put 4 traps next to the two new large turrets now rather than 12 (these numbers are different if you sandbag turrets first). That's a big loss is coverage and all it does to trap mazes is make them longer if you want to use them or have less traps.
I'm playing on medium, I have a single switchback with some traps set at the entrance to my base, that seems to soften up manhunter packs and raids enough based on the last 3 events I got. Can't speak to those who play at higher difficulties.
Quote from: KalkiKrosah on July 22, 2018, 04:11:39 PM
Hello Tynan,
Is there any possibility that more Tribal background stories will be created for version 1.0? I play tribal colonies a whole lot and I'd really like to see a non-unique Tribal backstory or three that gives a bonus to animals.
I would like to see that too. There are soooo many spacer stories but so few tribal ones. Not necessarily animal focused, just... more content in that regard. It really is somewhat annoying if you constantly get people with the exact same background.
Continuing my tribal , cass, rough, temp forest, large hills year round growing.
I decided to continue with growing the devilstrand as it was already planted. At 80% grown, roughly, a toxic fallout happens. Now it's all gone and this is the biggest weakness of devilstrand is actually getting a crop grown without cold snaps, toxic fallout or something else wiping it out and you are virtually guaranteed one of these events will happen.
Still struggling for prisoners to recruit from raids as most raids have no survivors and i have 9 colonists - on raider, two chased refugees and one escape pod. Once resistance is broken recruiting is very fast however if you want to break resistance efficiently then you have to micromanage your warden otherwise you will miss chat opportunities and when you have a prisoner with 45 resistance and it goes down at most by 1.5 per chat thats a long time if you miss one chat per day as you will if left to their own devices due to timings and sleep patterns. So either you have a grumpy warden who has to keep getting woken up or you take days longer to recruit someone.
On the topic of tribal backgrounds I would love to see a bit more variety. When rolling colonists from tribes it is easy to get people good at melee but hard for shooting as the background that gives shooting is bad at everything else for example. This makes tribal colonies melee heavy and recruiting tribals from raids often exacerbates things. With the need for colonists to fight much greater now I highly value combat skills on my colonists and is one of the reasons I do tribal starts.
Got a corrupted save today. I saved while a caravan was unloading at base and there was still a muffalo to unload (may or may not be unrelated to corruption). The dev console popped up with a bunch of xml errors. A short time later, as another caravan was arriving at a site (and generating the encounter, IIRC), I got a CTD. Loading the corrupted save throws a bunch of errors but ultimately finishes with just loading the world map and no colony (it appears on the map, but no way to load it). I have one of my caravans that I can still interact with, but that's it.
Error files and corrupted save attached. If I can reproduce it, I'll try to get a save closer to the crash and update this post.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 22, 2018, 04:14:07 PM
Quote from: KalkiKrosah on July 22, 2018, 04:11:39 PM
Hello Tynan,
Is there any possibility that more Tribal background stories will be created for version 1.0? I play tribal colonies a whole lot and I'd really like to see a non-unique Tribal backstory or three that gives a bonus to animals.
I would like to see that too. There are soooo many spacer stories but so few tribal ones. Not necessarily animal focused, just... more content in that regard. It really is somewhat annoying if you constantly get people with the exact same background.
I haven't done a real count but there's approximately 30 tribal back stories that aren't uniquely tied to a specific named pawn. That's both child and adult. Spacer has nearly 100 for child back stories alone. I'd like to see tribals get some more depth added to their story line. I'd even be willing to write up some of those stories if need be.
Turrets could require ammunition to operate rather than requiring barrel changes.
My Tribal Animal Swarm succumbed to attrition. Dang. The raid size really picked up. My wealth was at 160k and it was 5505. I think I remember one of the patch notes mentioning animals counting for more raid points - if that's what happened, then mission accomplished.
I am trying again on a less wintery map. I expect that animals will be better with the feed problems reduced. I'll also rethink my total lack of defenses.
Quote from: Polder on July 22, 2018, 05:15:14 PM
Turrets would benefit from costing ammunition to use rather than requiring a barrel change.
A Hopper with steel in it?
If I get far enough, I'll try some sacrificial turrets out in front to soften up raids. Since components are cheaper now, this might be economically viable.
Short story.
I roll a tribe on Cassandra/rough, even take the time to roll an undergrounder/researcher so I can start up a full time researcher asap, which I got going day 3 iirc. Later on I got a new pawn which became a parttime researcher, to speed it up a bit.
I got beds and clothing, got airconditioning and batteries up and beelined towards gunsmithing so I can produce some decent guns.
Although the raids have been giving me a few decent weapons I thought taking this research route was not the worst.
I had an easy raid of about 6 or 7 guys with molotovs and grenades, which I ended with just 2 guys easily outmaneuvering them in the open.
One of them had EMP nades which seemed useful for the encounter which made me post this story :)
Some time later a psychic ship landed which contained 1 scyther and 2 lancers. Seems I was waay undergeared for this encounter, because I lost 4 of my 7 pawns, all of which died in 1 shot. The lancers never missed.
Should I have gone for plate armor or even rush flak and have enough gear for all my pawns laying around for just this kind of encounter? What would the chances have been if I had at least wooden plate up on all my pawns?
Should I have neglected electricity and went for flak armor and better guns first?
I had this encounter 1 day after I got my first homemade bolt-action rifle which I made asap after getting the research done. My pawns were wearing alpaca dusters, warmasks and leather clothing. Yes, I know, not the best to fight mechanoids, but I had no other choice.
I'm not complaining, just asking if this is what a tribe should expect on cass/rough?
Anyways, GG and good night.
Quote from: Koek on July 22, 2018, 05:44:56 PM
Some time later a psychic ship landed which contained 1 scyther and 2 lancers. Seems I was waay undergeared for this encounter, because I lost 4 of my 7 pawns, all of which died in 1 shot. The lancers never missed.
Should I have gone for plate armor or even rush flak and have enough gear for all my pawns laying around for just this kind of encounter? What would the chances have been if I had at least wooden plate up on all my pawns?
Should I have neglected electricity and went for flak armor and better guns first?
What kind of cover were you behind when engaging the mechs? When I get a ship I'll sometimes build a mini bunker a distance away before I crack it open (use stone). Also traps destroy scythers, baiting them into traps is pretty effective.
I really love the idea of the naked and alone start; HOWEVER, my current attempts (Cass/Rough) have been completely unsuccessful. The very first raid brings a pawn that wins every time. I've tried stressing melee, I've tried stressing short bow. Each time I lose the slugfest.
I'm not sure what my suggested solution would be...Increase the chances for a wanderer or an escape pod? That doesn't seem quite right. The problem really seems to be in the effectiveness of the opponent. Or perhaps the lack of effectiveness in my one pawn.
I've tried a tribal start a few times now, as well, also Cass/Rough. Range weapons seem to have lost effectiveness, or perhaps, guns have become a bit more effective compared to lesser weapons. I'll be trying more tribal starts. Perhaps I'm doing something I shouldn't. I'm less concerned here. I probably did something silly.
Definitely put some think time into the naked and alone start, though. I want that to be awesome, but if it is always a First Raid and Done scenario, then why bother?
Quote from: syterth on July 22, 2018, 05:58:56 PM
Definitely put some think time into the naked and alone start, though. I want that to be awesome, but if it is always a First Raid and Done scenario, then why bother?
Yep, I like that start too and have only played it in this version. You can outplay the first raider with stepping in and out of your door. Otherwise a few traps work too or a house with 2 doors where you switch between walking out of them to attack him. Even waiting it out works. I currently try a naked strart with a non-violent guy and for the first raid I just hid in a wood hut and "waited" it out until he gave up.
Will they not automatically set fire to everything? I've just assumed they would set my hut on fire or beat the door down. So I've just saddled up and gone for broke. I'll give that a try, though.
~2 years into my current game (flat, arid shrublands, randy extreme)
General idea behind this was to see if completely flat maps could handle the new security system. They can, pretty easily if you use a trap corridor I might add, I didn't even trade for steel on account of some setbacks, so this could very well work on tundra even. I've actually had a much easier time so far than going full on turret in my temperate small hills game, having 0 deaths so far beyond leighton the wonder dog, who finally became a fried molotov corn dog.
Some highlights so far:
-Early game was a bit rough. Most of this having to build everything out of stone on a flat map, so 90% of my time was cutting stone and building walls. Had to involve colonists in battle a lot before I fully got a good killbox going. While i lucked out with no one dying, pretty much everyone had a crippling injury.
-In the early-midgame game, deadfalls deal with around 80% of all non-ship threats completely, which really really cut down on turret maintenance. The ~2000 steel investment in traps probably payed for itself already by now. Very early on, I just couldn't get enough due to the whole stone wall time sink.
-Raid frequency seems to be up on randy a lot. Or it was just randy being randy. Hard to say!
-Only had two "crisis" situations so far. In one case a group of raiders with a smokepop belt got through the trap corridor and my turrets wouldn't fire, so they completely wiped them out. This was so early in the game that I didn't even have raider dropped weapons, so I ended up having to beat them to death with my bare fists and a rifle.
In the other case, tribal sappers broke into the side of my main building before I could build an expansion perimeter wall around it. On the bright side, they immediately went into stealing shit mode. On the bad side, I didn't realize they could steal buildings, holy crap, is that new?! They took my multi-analyzer dangit!
Worse, they also stole my entire stash of regular meds while one of my colonists got the plague. Luckily I had a glitterworld medicine lying around somewhere else so between that and herbal I was able to get immunity before death, though. Also lost my chess set which takes like 3 entire days to rebuild when it's made of stone. yeesh.
-The slower research makes dealing with permanent injuries without bionics a little harsher. 2 years in and I still don't have bionics and several of my colonists have eyes shot out. My researcher did take a break for a while when I didn't even realize my analayzer was gone and research had stopped.
-Barracks are now great with the new disturbed sleep nerf! Initially i still have awful bedrooms, but eventually I moved into my extremely impressive uber room. Some colonists have their own room of course (depressives, ascetics)
-As said in an earlier post: scaled called friendlies were a bit too useful, as well as rescuing friendlies providing extremely high faction regain.
-Current fort below. Original size was just from the main storage expanded west. Then expanded north on year 1 end, then expanded east to cover my back entrance.
Edit: A note on prisoners. Overall prisoner recruitment is actually easier than b18 after the most recent change. Except for the first one or two prisoners, who normally always have very low recruitment times anyways. I personally had no shortage of people as I opened the AD the second I had a trap corridor set up.
Edit: Also, high gender psychic drones feel like they come too early. Luckily I had a bunch of drugs, but -30 at the end of year 1 was a bit of a shock
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Crow_T on July 22, 2018, 05:54:27 PM
What kind of cover were you behind when engaging the mechs? When I get a ship I'll sometimes build a mini bunker a distance away before I crack it open (use stone). Also traps destroy scythers, baiting them into traps is pretty effective.
I got lucky on the scyther. I focus fired him and it never got close. I used the EMP nades to try and stun one of the lancers, which got 1 shot off killing one of my pawns, before it got stunned. The second lancer got a few shots in, also 1 shot kills and none missed (at this point I decided GG), before I switched my EMP nade thrower to stun him while my remaining pawns focussed on the first lancer.
As cover I used a wall which was already close, a rock wall and some chunks.
Could and should I have prepared better by building some traps and defences first? Absolutely. But my question is more about their chance to 1 shot and how getting better armor would have increased my chances overall.
Also I'd like to know if my research progression could have been better to get that armor, neglecting the ease of electricity and perhaps even complex clothes so I could have gone either full plate or even flak armour.
I understand playing Cass/rough has quite a steep curve at the moment, so rolling a full time researcher is a must when playing a tribe. Perhaps even roll a parttime researcher on top of that to get to the must have science asap.
I'm a bit mixed on this 1 shot kill stuff. I like the risk, but good pawns are too hard to replace, especially this early in a run.
Since 1.0 I'm getting way less prisoners as well, since most raiders tend to die instead of going down it seems, so replacements are even harder to get. I was surpised to get 2 prisoners from the last raid to be honest, both which were actually acceptable to recruit. (I had my eyes set on that useless chemical interest guy hauling and cleaning while stoned all day)
Even though I insist on playing on rough, some thoughts on balance and fairness seem to be in order here.
Quote from: syterth on July 22, 2018, 05:58:56 PM
I really love the idea of the naked and alone start; HOWEVER, my current attempts (Cass/Rough) have been completely unsuccessful. The very first raid brings a pawn that wins every time. I've tried stressing melee, I've tried stressing short bow. Each time I lose the slugfest.
I'm not sure what my suggested solution would be...Increase the chances for a wanderer or an escape pod? That doesn't seem quite right. The problem really seems to be in the effectiveness of the opponent. Or perhaps the lack of effectiveness in my one pawn.
I've tried a tribal start a few times now, as well, also Cass/Rough. Range weapons seem to have lost effectiveness, or perhaps, guns have become a bit more effective compared to lesser weapons. I'll be trying more tribal starts. Perhaps I'm doing something I shouldn't. I'm less concerned here. I probably did something silly.
Definitely put some think time into the naked and alone start, though. I want that to be awesome, but if it is always a First Raid and Done scenario, then why bother?
At least the first raid comes pretty quick so you can try again without losing
too much time. I don't think there's any reasonable way to make that scenario more reliable to start with. It's certainly the most inherently unfair start, as it should be.
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
I'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.
Playing on a jungle map, RR Rough, 325k colony wealth.
Here's a screencap of my base. I've found that tidy square bases are easiest to work with. A double-wide steel wall is necessary to keep out baddies, and the best way to use my shooter pawns is to make a "pillbox" around each entrance to the colony. I guard these entrances with turrets - 23 autocannons, 19 steel mini-turrets, and one sniper turret in total. Designing a successful defense is pretty difficult, but that may be a consequence of my base design.
Anywho, to save space I clump my autocannons together in groups of three so they aren't shooting each other, and I surround them with sandbags for protection. It sucks because if one explodes, they all explode, but spacing them out is too much of a hassle and might risk more friendly fire. I've also been forced to switch up my turret placement because unreasonable amounts of bugs attack my base often (Overhead Mountain + Infestations yaaaaaaaaaaaaay) and I find that bugs and even Scythers tend to just bumrush my turret nest and vandalize the shit out of my autocannons since they can't fire back. The minimum firing distance is REALLY inconvenient. To (slightly) fix this, I place mini turrets just outside of the autocannons' minimum range so that enemies will take time destroying them, but will still be in firing range of both mini turrets and autocannons. I don't use sniper turrets because I feel that autocannons do the job better on average, and they're slightly less expensive.
I just now noticed that the steel cost for autocannons + snipers dropped since the last time I checked. Now during my jungle playthrough I've found that I have so much steel and uranium that it's actually too much for my storage building lol. Kinda wish steel/wood/blocks/etc could stack to 100 per cell... anywho, judging from my experience, if autocannons and sniper turrets had the minimum range removed or reduced, then I think it would be reasonable to up the steel cost for them. The uranium cost for sniper turrets I'm neutral on - not sure if it should go up, down, or stay the same.
Overall my turret nests are weak to triple rocket/doomsday launchers and the occasional event where they're Zerg-rushed by insects who have overwhelmed the mini turret "decoys". But otherwise they dish out a lot of damage and really help with huge raids.
[attachment deleted due to age]
QuoteAdaptation on downed pawn
Tried to exploit this.
I held a 'fight club' and knocked out 6 of my 10 pawns. The fun points dropped from 102 to 61 (!). However, an eye and a leg was lost. In another fight, a colonist was killed.
Then I chose my two weakest melee pawns and had them fight, over and over again. After the first downing, the same pawn was knocked out again as soon as they could walk, repeated twice a day. After 10-15 downings the fun points were halved. I guess you could continue this forever, if you don't mind that the pawn gets disfigured and loses fingers.
Where the cheese could really take off is if you had a non-violent wimp in your colony (did not test). The pawn could be downed repeatedly with little risk of injury. Or, if you have a frail, armless, or paralyzed pawn, you could beat them up, too. Or recruit prisoners for no other reason than to confine to a room and down repeatedly.
It's unlikely anyone would do this, especially if they can't see the adaptation graph, but it is technically possible to reduce or stall adaptation this way. Maybe a downed pawn should have to suffer at least one non-colonist inflicted injury to count towards adaptation (or be berserk or social fighting).
Tried heatstroke downing too; has no effect.
Is it really worth trying to put a fix in place for every weird exploit? If you're metagaming so much that you're beating up your own pawns, I say fair play to you. I don't think many people are going to play the game like that even if they know about it.
Actually, if it doesn't take too much work, switching the downed adaptation to permanent injury adaptation would help out legit players and simultaneously get rid of the exploit. My 6 guys with eyes shot out and prosthetic arms aren't too great but they weren't even downed ::)
Well, I pretty much just had my butt handed to me.
- Crashlander, Cassandra/Rough, Temperate Forest (30/60) created in 1.0.1970
- Ended on 4 Septober, 5501. Final wealth: 58,857. Deaths: 2. Final population: 11 (mostly bedridden and starving)
- 13 Raids total, although only six raid dots show up on the graphs. 13 major threats.
- The largest raid was two groups of pirates in a coordinated assault from the east and west. I believe there were 15 total pirates vs my colony of 9 (one incapable of violence). I had two turrets on each side but they were little more than distractions and three exploded in the ensuing combat.
- Recruitment chance is much better than in .1968, but overcoming the initial resistance is painful. I understand and agree with the need to introduce a natural "hysteresis" period between the attacking enemy and joining ally states, but in the early game where recruiting skills are probably low and supplies and work effort more precious the cost of recruiting is high.
- In the final three game weeks I was hit with a heat wave, multiple raids, malaria (six colonists), malaria again (four more colonists), muscle parasites (four colonists, overlapping with the malaria victims), a psychic drone ship (ouch!), and finally toxic fallout which pretty much left my remaining colonists dying of starvation.
I realize that the game is in a "shake it 'til you break it" mode, but it feels to me as if too many changes are occurring simultaneously with unpredictable interactions, followed by reactionary adjustments. I am only a mediocre player, but I have been playing since A16 and I haven't felt so out of control in a long time. The graph may show 95 "fun points", but I don't concur!
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: syterth on July 22, 2018, 05:58:56 PM
I really love the idea of the naked and alone start; HOWEVER, my current attempts (Cass/Rough) have been completely unsuccessful. The very first raid brings a pawn that wins every time. I've tried stressing melee, I've tried stressing short bow. Each time I lose the slugfest.
I'm not sure what my suggested solution would be...Increase the chances for a wanderer or an escape pod? That doesn't seem quite right. The problem really seems to be in the effectiveness of the opponent. Or perhaps the lack of effectiveness in my one pawn.
I've tried a tribal start a few times now, as well, also Cass/Rough. Range weapons seem to have lost effectiveness, or perhaps, guns have become a bit more effective compared to lesser weapons. I'll be trying more tribal starts. Perhaps I'm doing something I shouldn't. I'm less concerned here. I probably did something silly.
Definitely put some think time into the naked and alone start, though. I want that to be awesome, but if it is always a First Raid and Done scenario, then why bother?
It's supposed to be really difficult. Also you should pretty much always win a 1v1 fight if you have a bow and a building to use with doors to hide in. This is something you are doing wrong.
One thing again from my current cass, rough, temp forest run is that once breaking resistance recruitment is so far guaranteed on the next chat. I've also just had the first 100% difficult recruit prisoner that i can remember who BTW has a resistance of 50 (I'm going to recruit him anyway just because he is a good shot and a janitor is always useful, though the time investment is probably not worth it)
Quote from: fritzgryphon on July 22, 2018, 06:50:05 PM
QuoteAdaptation on downed pawn
Tried to exploit this.
I held a 'fight club' and knocked out 6 of my 10 pawns. The fun points dropped from 102 to 61 (!). However, an eye and a leg was lost. In another fight, a colonist was killed.
Then I chose my two weakest melee pawns and had them fight, over and over again. After the first downing, the same pawn was knocked out again as soon as they could walk, repeated twice a day. After 10-15 downings the fun points were halved. I guess you could continue this forever, if you don't mind that the pawn gets disfigured and loses fingers.
Where the cheese could really take off is if you had a non-violent wimp in your colony (did not test). The pawn could be downed repeatedly with little risk of injury. Or, if you have a frail, armless, or paralyzed pawn, you could beat them up, too. Or recruit prisoners for no other reason than to confine to a room and down repeatedly.
It's unlikely anyone would do this, especially if they can't see the adaptation graph, but it is technically possible to reduce or stall adaptation this way. Maybe a downed pawn should have to suffer at least one non-colonist inflicted injury to count towards adaptation (or be berserk or social fighting).
Tried heatstroke downing too; has no effect.
Nice, now we can roleplay storyteller pleasing sacrifices that indeed have effect. :)
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
I'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.
The advanced turrets are expensive, fragile (low HP/cost, and large body size), and dangerous for friendly fire. They are only good in a tightly controlled situation (i.e. k i l l b o x), which is how I've been using them in my plays. Even then I find they are prone to explode, wasting hundreds of steel, and everything around, or FF oneshot torso your colonists / animals.
QuoteIt's supposed to be really difficult. Also you should pretty much always win a 1v1 fight if you have a bow and a building to use with doors to hide in. This is something you are doing wrong.
I totally understand that it's supposed to be hard; however, diving in and out of doors is not intuitive. So I would argue that is not something to rely on. I really cannot support that idea as the sole way to survive naked and alone.
I'll certainly give it a shot, though! XD
Quote from: zizard on July 22, 2018, 08:01:30 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 08:43:54 AM
I'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.
The advanced turrets are expensive, fragile (low HP/cost, and large body size), and dangerous for friendly fire. They are only good in a tightly controlled situation (i.e. k i l l b o x), which is how I've been using them in my plays. Even then I find they are prone to explode, wasting hundreds of steel, and everything around, or FF oneshot torso your colonists / animals.
yeah if you go the "free range turrets" route you have to get used to some non-stop hold fire micro to stop colonist deaths
Quote from: syterth on July 22, 2018, 08:05:21 PM
I totally understand that it's supposed to be hard; however, diving in and out of doors is not intuitive. So I would argue that is not something to rely on. I really cannot support that idea as the sole way to survive naked and alone.
I'll certainly give it a shot, though! XD
People have done naked brutality runs with pacifists so winning a 1v1 should be possible with a bow. It's the hardest start and one you need to know alot about the game to do well on, as well as getting somewhat lucky or at least not getting alot of bad luck.
On the devilstrand balancing.
Isn't the concept of Devilstrand to be slightly superior than Synthread, but difficult to maintain a steady production and highly energy-demanding because you need half a year to harvest? If that is the case, Devilstrand was perfect and there was no need to change it. Now, if there is a need to buff leathers, then its an entire different conversation.
IMO the order of fabrics was always: Cloth -> Wool -> various furs/leathers -> rare animals' wool/leather (thrumbo, megatheriums) -> Synthread -> Devilstrand -> Hyperweave.
If it needs to be kept that way, pre-change was quite how it should be. If it doesn't, then Devilstrand being debuffed to Synthread-like status is quite a huge and unnecessary nerf. That is, if you, Tynan, has any plans on making Hyperweave craftable, then it makes sense, kinda.
I feel like devilstrand balancing is part of a wider issue with fabrics just generally being too weak in 1.0. Low armor levels just don't do much damage mitigation. Could maybe just be solved with some postprocessing on the lower end (< 100 armor) since tynan loves dem curves ::)
Has anyone actually been using fabrics in battle with success? I've even been skipping plate in my most recent game, as my experience with it has been pretty iffy unless you embark specifically with a high level crafter.
As i have spammed said a lot of times in this thread, centipedes with the new armor system are way too OP.
So i was thinking, what if you let melee pawns go for the weak parts when the centipedes are stunned? Right now, to manage to stun a mechanoid is not very rewarding given how the pawns administrate their valuable 20 seconds. They keep hitting parts that will never break, like the body's rings. When the centipedes are stunned, shouldnt the hit chance for the head increase dramatically? Since the centipedes will have a hard time avoiding hits...
Now here's a turret that I would actually use free range:
Body size 1 or below, good HP, medium range, high accuracy, maybe 2-3 round burst with lowish damage per shot and dps. When an enemy gets into melee range, it lowers itself underground, gains high damage reduction and (if it doesn't mess up the AI too much, which it might, would need experiment, otherwise the damage reduction should still let you attempt to bail it out) is no longer a raid target (could still be destroyed coincidentally by AOE). The turret must be re-armed to reactivate it. High accuracy and low damage per shot mitigates FF risk, and self-protection makes it less of a liability. This would be a nice supporting / stalling turret.
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 22, 2018, 08:32:08 PM
On the devilstrand balancing.
Isn't the concept of Devilstrand to be slightly superior than Synthread, but difficult to maintain a steady production and highly energy-demanding because you need half a year to harvest? If that is the case, Devilstrand was perfect and there was no need to change it. Now, if there is a need to buff leathers, then its an entire different conversation.
IMO the order of fabrics was always: Cloth -> Wool -> various furs/leathers -> rare animals' wool/leather (thrumbo, megatheriums) -> Synthread -> Devilstrand -> Hyperweave.
If it needs to be kept that way, pre-change was quite how it should be. If it doesn't, then Devilstrand being debuffed to Synthread-like status is quite a huge and unnecessary nerf. That is, if you, Tynan, has any plans on making Hyperweave craftable, then it makes sense, kinda.
Note; Ive only played a year and change on two maps in 1.0, so not 100% on stuff.. but;
Devilstrand to me stood out as one of the old, few options you had for making semi-effective armor before you could make power armor. In my current run, I see virtually no reason to make it at all - Devoting large amounts of land/time/power? for what amounts to being able to make a flak jacket equivalent, when plate or flak vests exist and are much simpler. I admit, I havent bothered building a devilstrand jacket to see how useful it is yet, but with stuffmultipliers at .3 it feels kinda useless as an armor. Is devilstrand even enough to make a jacket (or any apparel) provide enough armor to mitigate a small bow hit?
Actually, seriously, am I missing an apparel type that isnt flak jacket/vest/pants that has a reasonably high stuff multiplier? Or are the only valid armor types flak/plate/power nowadays?
Note; imo there should be two different sets of textiles - Armor textiles, and weather textiles. Cloth should be baseline, leathers should err on the side of being armor, and wools should be on the side of weather resistant. Does this even currently work the way clothes are set up now? Does anything not have enough armor penetration to make general clothes type stuff made out of the best materials useless?
Its the slow down on friendly mortar shoots (probably enemies too), a feature or a bug ? Either way it gets annoying really fast :(
I am somewhat puzzled by all the concern about devilstrand.
If you look at the armor / EHP relations, armor values around 50% or below have very low relevance to combat efficiency. And 51% was the value of the old excellent dstrand duster.
Some food poisoning feedback.
Randy rough. I do this on all my starts now. On open I pick my colony site. Since nobody gets smithing, I try to get a decent sized metal ruin. A 5×8ish near the middle of the map has been easy enough so far. The metal floor tiles are supposed to be more sanitary than normal per their description. I enclose it with wood and tear down the metal wall to maximize the inside. Plus that usually gives enough for a stove. The butcher site goes outside the kitchen. I am on the fence about a kitchen table, since colonists just hanging around leave filth. Sometimes I put veg storage so that they are less likely to walk in and out tracking dirt.
I keep my cooks on the same shift and make extra meals for the morning. This way during meal prep I can keep the camera on the kitchen. When the dirt reaches 5 items, the option to clean appears. The next cook or colonist not doing something important cleans. This continues until meals are done. I don't seem to get food poisoning this way.
One bit of weirdness I have noticed. Raw meat carried into the kitchen (I don't store it there) leaves blood on the floor. Ok, I get that, but sometimes instead of the name of the animal the meat is from, it gets the colonists name. Creepy, but if my cooks are walking around with cuts they got while cooking that does explain the high food poisoning rate, lol.
Quote from: Underscore on July 22, 2018, 03:55:31 PM
I started up my ship's reactor expecting fifteen days of absolute hell.
I have 5.6 days remaining and I have not gotten a single raid.
EDIT: I had a little more time before work and I fast forwarded through the last 6 days. Reactor is ready, not a single raid or incident.
I tried this test. There was no raid at all. This seems to be a bug that certainly needs fixing.
Just noticed in the latest version that I can no longer build bridges over deep water. I haven't seen this change in the patch notes, is this intended?
I don't think I've ever been able to build bridges over deep water in 1.0, at least not when i tried it a few days ago.
The fiance breakup bad thought lasts a looooong time. 30 days! And it's big. Maybe a 7 day stronger debuff and a smaller one for the rest of a 15-30 day interval would be more appropriate.
The guy running around with that debuff was super upset and kept having breakdowns while caravaning. Actually, this was fine because worldmap mental breaks appear to have no effect. Is there supposed to be something that they do? I'm not sure what would be appropriate, but I snickered when the pyro decided to burn down someone else's forest instead of mine.
Hilariously, two weeks later I found out why she broke up with him. I got a call for help from a prisoner at a pirate camp. The call was from his lover. I guess the fiance had already found out, perhaps from an earlier message that she had 'forgotten' to pass on to the rest of the colony.
A slow year.
Cassandra/Medium started blind with Naked Brutality. First pawn was...ME! Hey, it's me! For once, RNG gave me a decent first pawn and it's my guy JC. And I really like the large hills map it gave me too. I really wanted this colony to succeed.
So far...I guess it has. Been kind of a slow year. I've had one fleeing refugee and one escape pod. A total of 6 single-raider raids, all of which died.
It's hard to get much done in a year with just three pawns!
No idea what this graph means, but here it is!
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: bbqftw on July 22, 2018, 10:10:44 PM
I am somewhat puzzled by all the concern about devilstrand.
If you look at the armor / EHP relations, armor values around 50% or below have very low relevance to combat efficiency. And 51% was the value of the old excellent dstrand duster.
Considering Flak Jackets and pants are 40% sharp base, are they ever worth even wearing, let alone producing? Seems like you might as well not bother with them, then.
Quote from: Arq on July 22, 2018, 11:46:55 PM
The fiance breakup bad thought lasts a looooong time. 30 days! And it's big. Maybe a 7 day stronger debuff and a smaller one for the rest of a 15-30 day interval would be more appropriate.
The guy running around with that debuff was super upset and kept having breakdowns while caravaning. Actually, this was fine because worldmap mental breaks appear to have no effect. Is there supposed to be something that they do? I'm not sure what would be appropriate, but I snickered when the pyro decided to burn down someone else's forest instead of mine.
Hilariously, two weeks later I found out why she broke up with him. I got a call for help from a prisoner at a pirate camp. The call was from his lover. I guess the fiance had already found out, perhaps from an earlier message that she had 'forgotten' to pass on to the rest of the colony.
All things considered, breaking up with someone you intend to spend your life with would probably ruin you for quite a bit, and 30 days is about half a year. Keeping in mind that these are """normal""" people who go nuts after not eating off of a table, I don't think it's unreasonable that they would be torn up about it for half a year. From a gameplay perspective it's annoying, sure, but they also have massive mood buffs when they're together that can last until one of them dies.
Tynan, traders are stopping at strange spots for me in the current version.
I'm on a new arid shrub tribe playthrough, and the traders are stopping at a random 3 traps I have placed on almost the opposite side of the map from my base. No homezone set over there. There is a body dumping stockpile sort of nearby but thats it.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Kalre on July 22, 2018, 03:04:47 PM
Yeah Megasloths are human butchers now, 2 hits generally end up in one or two limbs off hehe.
Imagine my surprise when I sent a pawn to hunt a peaceful slow megasloth in the build that made that change, and got a "DEATH" envelope in mere seconds.... I should probably read the change log before playing. I'm now down to my last original colonist (the second one died to friendly fire...)
I see that the animal spawn rate has been fixed, I don't have an empty map for days anymore.
Also the prisoners are getting recruited in a decent fashion.
My favorite event from this weekend: a pack of manhunting
turtles. The thing about the turtles is that they're slow. Very slow. Turtle soup for everyone! :) :)
What I've noticed in these unstable builds: break-ups happen more often than before. In beta, I had to switch most of my beds to double beds. Now I have only two, in rotation, because pawns are getting together and breaking up weekly. Also had one wedding called off, because they started the wedding just after a raid which had some casualties.
Colonist went on mental break, final straw was hungry. Gave him fine meals instantly after the break. He went on another mental break right after he finished his fine meal cause he was greedy for impressive bedroom. Just reporting since it may not be intended.
(https://i.imgur.com/cXakjyG.png)
Quote from: Greep on July 22, 2018, 11:38:37 PM
I don't think I've ever been able to build bridges over deep water in 1.0, at least not when i tried it a few days ago.
I was able to a couple of patches back as a chunk of my base was built on a large river and you could build bridges on deep water but not waterproof cables, you also couldn't bridge over the top of cables.
Quote from: mcduff on July 22, 2018, 07:04:46 PM
Is it really worth trying to put a fix in place for every weird exploit? If you're metagaming so much that you're beating up your own pawns, I say fair play to you. I don't think many people are going to play the game like that even if they know about it.
Yesterday I watched someone who drafted a colonist and ran them around a small mountain repeatedly to avoid another colonist who was targeting them for an insulting spree. So yeah, at least some people are going to play the game in a weird way, especially if they hear from someone else that it's a way to cheese the system.
Hello, i'm enjoying 1.0 so far and i made a challenging playthrough to test my skills, i went for Naked Brutality Randy Random Merciless at Temperate Swamp (I was rerolling until i got a good pawn).
Day 7 - a wild man comes to map, i manage to tame him the same day with 27% taming chance
Day 9 - i get offered a pirate chase quest, i see that the pawn is 17 years old so i take it expecting a good pawn (and he was decent)
However!, the scale of the raid was insane, before the raid from the pirate chase quest i only got raided once by a guy that had a Steel Mace of normal quality, is this scale of the raid intended or maybe it was a bug?, i have posted some pictures below with my wealth and what happened.
First pic (https://i.imgur.com/icD1hCl.jpg): shows the count of raiders and what weapons they have.
Second pic (https://i.imgur.com/cYwdjQp.png): shows graph and days passed: 9
Third pic (https://i.imgur.com/AzIo6kP.jpg): shows me trying to fight the raiders, i kited a raider to the trap in front of my door and as soon it hit him i got out and bashed him in the face with my mace but he didnt die... (melee skill: 11), in this setup i had lanilor as melee with steel mace and menino with short bow and shooting skill of 7, luke didnt have a weapon yet, i just got him.
forth pic (https://i.imgur.com/eyme8Xn.png): the result of raid.. they decided to kidnap Luke and Menino but they were moving so slow so i went with Lanilor and killed them with my mace.
How this colony ended: At the time of the 4th pic lanilor got infected and i had a doctor with 3 skill so my tending quality with herbal medicine was 0%, then everyone was injured and a wild boar started hunting me, i managed to kill it but it injured menino even more, then i had a problem with food so i sent Luke hunting but he hit the wild boar and all other near wild boars started hunting my whole team so they ate us.
Infestation reproduction rate should be reduce a bit imo, insects maybe nerf a little bit ? 10 explosives and incendiary traps, 2 turrets, plus 15 steel traps were not enough to stop the swarm (phoebe hard) ; day 183 (tribe start)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 22, 2018, 08:43:54 AMI'm interested in how turrets are these days, in terms of effectiveness, accessibility, usefulness, cost/benefit. Note they were made cheaper not long ago. I haven't seen much mass turret use and I'd have expected to see more.
it takes so long to get to turret tech now, why don't traders offer them for sale now and then? Could be an ok way to introduce new players to turrets too
Hey Tynan,
I noticed that in StorytellerUtility, the PostProcessCurve isn't very curvy. I don't know whether it no longer needs to be curvy because of other changes (for example, wealth is now curved) or some other good reason. Just making you aware. :)
I've noticed several shots going over a door shortly after it's done closing, at least in the earlier updates. I've assumed players noticed.
But... In this screenshot, "Odette" shoots "Daichi" exactly where he's standing. He hasn't moved recently and Neither has Odette yet she was able to hit him.
To top it off, she's a level 1 shooter :p I apologize if this is well known bug.
Second pic was just to see if it was consistent and it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/aMOzbAb.png) | (https://i.imgur.com/V2Xu9F8.png) |
Quote from: Jibbles on July 23, 2018, 02:12:00 AM
I've noticed several shots going over a door shortly after it's done closing, at least in the earlier updates. I've assumed players noticed.
But... In this screenshot, "Odette" shoots "Daichi" exactly where he's standing. He hasn't moved recently and Neither has Odette yet she was able to hit him.
To top it off, she's a level 1 shooter :p I apologize if this is well known bug.
Second pic was just to see if it was consistent and it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/aMOzbAb.png) | (https://i.imgur.com/V2Xu9F8.png) |
It always worked like this; you can shoot people behind cover if they're on the corner.
The visual representation doesn't exactly match what's being simulated.
Quote from: Tynan on July 23, 2018, 02:49:15 AM
It always worked like this; you can shoot people behind cover if they're on the corner.
The visual representation doesn't exactly match what's being simulated.
lol my mistake then. It's been some time since I've played b18 so I'm not remembering things correctly.
I was thinking that only happened if they were taking cover
while shooting.
If they weren't equipped then they wouldn't "peak."
So to have a bullet flyover the wall like that at that angle was confusing and can't recall experiencing that.
To make it a bit more clear, I would think either Rafael would have to peak and shoot, or Macer to step aside to the tile on the right to land the shot.
Thanks for the quick response.
Just had a hairy couple days, Cassandra Medium. Day 342 or so, based solely on the last raid in the graph because I was a bit too busy to pay attention. I actually suspect it was more like day 354 and sieges don't count as "raids" for the graph, because I don't think 15 days have passed since the below incident, more like 2 days tops.
I got a single notification that there was an infestation, but got 2 actual infestations. Not sure if they can split up like raids do, if you can actually get 2 so quickly that they only get one notification, or if there was a weird bug or something. However, they did spawn very far apart (one in my home zone, the other off in a cave near but not in my crypt). They did not pop up at exactly the same time, but within maybe 10 speed-1 seconds of each other.
I fought off the one in my home zone, and right as we were killing the last couple bugs a siege arrived, quite well decked out though I don't know exactly how many. Maybe a dozen or a bit more than that. I sent my 4 melee guys to the mortars and everybody else to the siege itself. Which, incidentally, had a relationship in it. I generally ignore those warnings. You want to kill me, I'm going to want to kill you first. I don't care whose wife you are.
It was around this time that Vance (who I've actually mentioned twice here, he almost died after eating some questionable dog meat on a caravan and also nearly escaped back when he was a prisoner due to a visiting caravan using his prison door so much) decided that the fact that his room wasn't as nice as someone else's was enough of a reason to become an extreme break risk. I queued up a jade statue to be put in his room after the fight was over, but that didn't seem to placate him. He had actually just gotten back from another caravan, and hadn't eaten so he was pretty hungry. I decided to give him the battle off and let him catch a quick bite. We've got 11 other shooters, 4 mortars, and Fox - our pacifist medic who just loves dragging fallen soldiers to the medbay.
And we didn't need Vance at all. We totally butchered the siege guys, killing about 3/4 of them before they even knew what hit them but right after they'd built a mortar. Free mortar! I queued up all the forbidden stuff to take back to the base, and the sandbags to be deconstructed, and...
...and then I noticed that bugs were running rampant in my combination growing zone/muffalo grazing area, which was just outside that cave that the second insect infestation had spawned in. I kinda figured they'd keep to themselves like natural bugs do, but nooooooo. Vance, the only guy I wasn't directly controlling, was of course there too so I drafted him again and set to work. He had managed to eat but was still a critical risk. I didn't think much of it at the time.
I used the closest colonist to flick on the turret switch, and brought everybody into the zone. I micromanaged like a concert pianist, and managed to not lose anybody (though 3 colonists and all 3 of my muffalo were downed) as we killed the final insect. WHEW.
And then Vance decided he'd had enough. Remember how I said I didn't care whose wife I killed? Well, I should have. It was Vance's.
It took 2 guys to melee him down but only one to drag him to the medbay to sleep it off.
Everything's getting back to normal, but man that was a rough time.
Here's some graphs and a picture of the colony for funsies. The first bugs arrived in the lower left near Sonia, the second way up in the upper right where that glow pod is. The siege was off the top of the map. Don't make fun of my colony it's like the 4th one I've ever had that made it past the first year or two.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I suggest slowing down the deterioration rate of hay when roofed outdoors. Having elephants entering buildings through doors to eat the hay makes me feel strange things deep within my soul.
On hauling:
1. The low-priority "haul to merge" is working just fine. No complaints other than I've seen them stuck in a loop at times like in that one reddit post.
2. Animals haul just enough to make them useful. I think they do it more often too! (Feels, not facts)
3. "Opportunistic" hauling way back in the earlier builds of 1.0 seems to never work ever. You know how you send your builder to deconstruct ship chunks and they do so but never haul back the components but Amy all the way at base decides to do it instead? Yeah, it'd be nice if colonists, after deconstruction or a long period of being draft (i.e battles), they scan around to haul things back to base (weapons, corpses, etc).
4. Colonists still are unable to haul medicine from pack animals to tend to the wounded during raids. Really, doctors should carry medicine by themselves. It's very annoying to find that one muffalo who carries all the meds, at the edge of the map, and you needing to pick them up, draft them to where your colonists are bleeding, and drop it from their gear tab.
5. Despite making bedrolls useful in caravans, colonists insist on putting them on pack animals instead of on their person (sometimes they give other bedrolls to the same person!) and what's the point of having them still if they're not gonna pull them out and put them on the ground when on a map? It'll help them heal faster, instead of needing to do the same song and dance of dropping stuff from the pack animals and choosing to install them one by one. Not as useful during outpost raids because you can claim enemy beds, but a pain nonetheless.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 23, 2018, 05:30:49 AM
4. Colonists still are unable to haul medicine from pack animals to tend to the wounded during raids. Really, doctors should carry medicine by themselves. It's very annoying to find that one muffalo who carries all the meds, at the edge of the map, and you needing to pick them up, draft them to where your colonists are bleeding, and drop it from their gear tab.
+1 for the doctors carrying medicine, I'd like that option even at home. Like the 'take to inventory' option from the drug schedule..
Regarding that: in my old colony I set a schedule for everyone to take pekoe tea and yayo into their inventory, the schedule was set so that they wouldn't consume it by themselves (only under 1% joy and 1% mood) if it wasn't for addiction. I just wanted them to have it at hand if needed.
I experienced that at any given time only one or two of the 12 colonists had any of it in their inventory, I don't know if it's a known 'bug' or why they decided to not follow this order but i'd welcome it if that behaviour changed or if someone could tell me how to set this up the right way if the mistake was on my side.
Pawns are able to use drugs and food from their Inventory. Why not medicine?
And yes, I have Smart Medicine installed because it's such a QoL improvement.
I don't like how mechs become the most common raid in late game. They are very tedious and unforgiving compared to pirate raids. Even if they were made more fun, I think their probability should be at most 40%. I think it would help a lot to have some mech types that are less extreme with their roles, compared to the current super sniper, super amputator, and super tank. Perhaps something around 4 speed with a mid-range burst fire gun and claws for melee.
In general enemy variety is a problem for non-human raids. This is a shame because the main thing distinguishing RW from similar games is the shooting and cover system; but in late game, between insects and mechs, most enemies are best destroyed with as little interaction with that system as possible.
Cass - rough, tribal, temp forest, year round growing, large hills.
Posted a couple of times about this colony. Got to the end of year three and things have started to get rather hectic. Back to back mech drop pod raids landing inside my base, I managed to get one of my colonists to grab the EMP grenades just in time but it still turned in to a bit of a cluster ****. Another mech pod raid this time landing outside my base. I decided to try a trap maze and nothing would come near it even when it led to an open field of crops and I had colonists near the maze. Unless directly aggroed the mechs (and all other raiders) will happily wander about and then pick a wall and attack it, doesn't matter what raid type you get they are all sapper raids now. A 31 man tribal raid followed this up, I got sloppy and lost some animals (a recurring theme towards the end was animals not moving to safety fast enough when told and dying) also a few colonists got downed.
Then came the psychic ship. While I was preparing (and recovering still from the tribal raid, wounds are taking a long time to clear so bad fights snowball the amount of injuries as you will be wounded for the next fight) I got an 18 man pirate raid with 3 Doomsday rockets and a triple rocket. They drop pod in just south of my base so I have little time to prepare and i mess up and take the doomsday rockets to the faces of three of my colonists who somehow survive with no permanent damage though they were all downed (and one of their chain shotguns got vapourised). So now I have a bunch of critically injured people and the psychic ship has ramped up and everyone is going mental. So I have to deal with the ship before everyone starts chaining mental breaks. 2 centipedes, 2 lancers and 6 scythers. The centipedes and lancers decide to take a daytrip to the north side of my base while the scythers run around to the bottom of my base to kill my boomalopes and then headbut walls.
The mechs at the top of my base break in and I meet them with my colonists, a couple of melee, 2 chain shotguns, several assault rifles and some snipers. At close quarters the chain shotguns shred the mechs, then I just have to deal with the pack of scythers to the south. Once the dust was settled everyone is bleeding, I just about get everyone bandaged up before a dozen or so mental breaks occur and i don't have people free to arrest anyone so my rec room gets trashed (two different people decided to tantrum breaking my masterwork marble pool table and masterwork marble poker table, tantrums seemed to be the theme and a bunch of other things got broken as well). At this point I'm too tired to play and making mistakes as well so i came to post instead.
I did do some caravanning and missions but only a few times. My first quest was for a techprof subpersona core, as a tribal start I jumped at this. The timing lined up nicely and I get the reward just as I finish researching electricity so I get microelectronics for free. I didn't do any more quests for a while (I forget quite when it was, but the other quests didn't have rewards that interested me or were too far away to be worth the risk) and a quest for 2 techprofs and 29 glitterworld meds for taking out a bandit camp guarded by 8 people. This got me multi-analyser and fabrication and a third quest got me power armour research. All in all quests saved me 34000 research which helped rather a lot as a tribal start.
This colony reinforced on me that killboxes and trap mazes don't work and that after you get walls up all raids are sapper raids (even if they aren't) or drop pods. I'm not sure what to change defense wise about my base. I have finished researching all the turrets but I don't honestly think I would use them much except for some mini-turrets to try and deter sappers from certain areas (though I don't know if this still works like it did in B18). This run I've had raiders ignore a direct open path to my crops (before I had a perimeter wall) and instead break down the wall to a bedroom and try to go through it rather than walk 20 tiles to the gap.
Thinking more about why I'm not using turrets and it isn't the cost to build them. The upkeep cost is not something that bothers me in principle but I dislike that no matter how many shots are left it always costs the full amount to refill a turret. If you want to be combat ready then you will waste steel otherwise you will have turrets run out of shots mid fight. Also with the way raids are now, how they spread out, ignore killboxes and randomly break through walls, turrets are a hindrance not an asset. You can't reposition a turret to drop aggro or pull raider closer to your defences. Turrets also shoot your colonists with friendly fire and turrets are best used to defend set hardpoints but raids don't like attacking down set routes now so turrets lose effectiveness as you cannot concentrate them like in the past and spread out they don't do enough for how inflexible they make your tactics and combat. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this or getting my ideas down right (I am very tired lol)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Debug History Graphs:
Naked Brutality
Cassandra/Rough/Temperate Forest (Year-Round Growing) - ~117 days completed
Version 1972
Some notes:
-Love that wood doesn't deteriorate when unroofed & outside; honestly, it feels almost like cheating. I wouldn't mind if the deterioration was put back in.
-Double Peglegged and did some amateur dentistry on a prisoner (non-pirate but currently hostile faction) who shot one of my animals. Got faction relation decrease, as a result. This feels right...I like the change. Executed another prisoner who actually did the killing: the -2 debuff felt well balanced.
-Still not a fan at all of items deteriorating because they're not enclosed; would like to see this changed back to only deteriorating when unroofed, as others have stated earlier.
-The quality of new potential recruits is amazingly good for both this game and my previous one; plenty of colonists who have no "incapable of"'s, and plenty of passion flames.
-Had a "Wild Man" event; wasn't able to tame him, as my current handler's skills were too low. During a cold snap, he was repeatedly getting frostbite, and I was saving him: he had excellent stats. He returned to the wild almost immediately every time, where I think he succumbed to the cold. I wasn't able to find the body...I think the wild boars got to him. Loved the event, and I'd love to see more of this type of stuff.
-I like the new combination of shooting skills and animal skills for hunting; this also feel appropriate.
I'm going to start the transition from early- to mid-game tomorrow. So far, gameplay feels well balanced, very enjoyable, and challenging without being draconian. I'm having a great time with this colony, so far.
(https://i.imgur.com/u57UwcA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/pYVNR2A.png)
Many thanks to those who have posted stories, especially with graphs. It really helps tune things. Please keep em' coming.
New build is up. As always, the changelog is just for reference. Please play it before discussing and base your feedback on your experiences.
I would love to hear how traps and turret defenses are fitting together this build. The goal is that complex trap/turret defenses (including killboxes, trap hallways, etc) should be really useful, but shouldn't be a hand-off free win against every threat. (Note that you can reinstall traps now, they do a lot more damage, but they're consumed when used, but they're cheaper. The material a trap is made from makes a big difference in how hard it hits.)
Still lots to do!
Note: There is a bug affecting friendly fire; FF can happen at ranges where it should be impossible if the shot lands in the target cell. This'll be fixed soon. There's also a bug where wild men can wander out of prison if arrested. And many other bugs to be fixed.
---
Trap rework: Double damage, cost to 40, disappear on use. Fixed a bug that made traps do too little damage. Reduced IED cost. Traps can be reinstalled.
Raid arrival mode and strategy can affect raid points on a curve. Adjust raid strategy prevalence.
Rename IncidentTargetType to IncidentTargetTag.
Rework points curve somewhat so different difficulties cap at different numbers.
Fix: No ship reactor raids.
Fix: Chased refugee can happen unreasonably early.
Rebalance animal point costs. Rebalance adaptation, reduce cap.
Add unstable build warning text.
Misc balance/fix: -Adjust devilstrand. -Adjust turret build and maintenance costs, power usage, health. -Turn off atomic refueling for all turrets. -Rename "connected rate" to "grid usage". -Fix: Wrong passive cooler description. -Remove exclusion zone rendering on trap placeworker. -Adjust eye health. -Reduce barracks thought impact by 2. This compensates for disturbed sleep. -Adjust charge lance shot rate. -Fix: Redundant research requirement on sniper turret. -Fix: Infections can kill people without explanation by affecting part efficiency. -Fix: Friendly mortars firing causes forced slowdown. -Adjust wood deterioration rate to 0.5. -Time slowdown on prisoner escape. -Adjust relations gain on heal-and-release. -Animals eat random stuff less. -Drifters should not get guns.
FYI, on my current playthrough I haven't built a single turret. (Phoebe Medium). I think I'll start a new game tonight and experiment with turrets and traps.
The trap rework looks interesting. I started a naked extreme game yesterday with a non-violent pawn, so I had to rely on traps and animals. This will probably change a lot. I will report experiences later.
As slight note - do not suggest loading saves with triggered traps as even a fully unmodded save file had significant issues.
Ok, about 110 days in. Started playing maybe 8 builds ago?
Graphs at the bottom. This is Crashlanded, Cassandra Rough, Permadeath. Arid shrubland environment.
Comment on security (before the build just now came up): Traps are very useful. The restriction to have an exclusion zone is very good I think. This only slightly affected the way I am building them - I do not have a fully walled compound, but 2 big, squat buildings with several rooms inside each (see pic). I do have some leftover ones next to each other on a small bridge from before the adjacency restrictions came up. They are definitely useful at the amount I have them at, but not overwhelming. They take out about 1 raider out of the usual 6-person raid I get. 2 if they come over the bridge maybe. My spontaneous reaction to the change that they are single use again is: ugh... It was really nice to rearm them without supplies, before they were a logistical hastle that was frustrating. I won't theorize too much and will test. But I think I prefer them weaker and more reusable than powerful and single use, in general. The turrents feel much more useful, my last bigger impression was in a build about 3 weeks ago. They are a great distraction for raiders also which gives my snipers more time to do damage. Very useful - I should build more of them in this base...
Now, this colony also generated one of my coolest Rimworld stories, which can be seen somewhat in the plots also. My first crashlanded colonist, Kaleun, a transhumanist hunter and builder, got an unlucky shot to the eye early on and had major sight issues and also constant pain from the eye. Still, my only real negotiator and the friendly town was just a few hours away. I had an elephant that had self-tamed and I loaded up all my goods to trade for hopefully a new eye. However, I got waylaid by a bandit demanding everything, even the elephant and the clothes on Kaleun's back (side note, I was a complete idiot here, sending her out alone). I felt I could probably hide behind the elephant and survive with my goods, so I stupidly decided to fight. To my surprise, the lone bandit (with a heavy smg) was Kaleun's mother, Darcie! What a reunion... Well, my plan didn't work and Darcie got a lucky shot in that immediately ended the encounter for me, and the whole caravan was lost (side note here: the message about what happened was a bit short, also I got a "colonist banished" mood debuff for the others that I had no idea where it came from and may have been a bug). So, I kick myself and soldier on with the remaining 3 colonists, all bummed out about losing Kaleun.
However, about 10 days later I get a rescue message - Kaleun is alive. I send my only good remaining shooter out, not wanting to leave the base completely undefended. He fights 2 defenders with a mortar, getting burns and losing his nose in the fight but prevailing! I rescue Kaleun - and I realize, she has severe brain damage! A quick check and I know - her own mother shot her in the head, that's why. I manage to get them back. I do some trade quests, rebuild my wealth, trade for an archotech arm and eye from the nearby town (lucky selection) and get a healer mech from a quest also. Quite the comeback. Kaleun is now half woman, half high-tech machine, and wholly dedicated to finding her mother on this forsaken planet to get her revenge...
Here's the pictures:
[attachment deleted due to age]
Ok quick bug report: I had a recue from an escape pod that I didn't want. I didn't want him so I only rescued, but he joined by himself upon recovery. So I gave him a gun and some clothes, and banished him. He promptly, as a guest, walked into a trap (still not playing on the build from an hour ago but the one before). He gets downed. Being nice, I rescue him, bandage him up - he heals and joins again without me being able to say no. So I draft him, march him out far from the base, and then banish him. Works but now I have 2 "banished colonist" debuffs... Would be nice if it recognized that it's the same, or better yet, could I have a choice in whether I want that person to join, ideally with a view of their stats?
* i've had a caravan ambushed by manhunter + tribespeople (https://imgur.com/DaR1LZ9). It was fun and looked like sometimes raids go wrong but i don't know if it was intended.
* the recent change in the cycles made it possible to have 2 major threats with Cassandra (i had psychic ship + manhunter pack) within hours, which never happened. More randomness within the cycle seems good but so far it looks like on the long term i get fewer threats (closer to 1 per cycle whereas it used to be closer to two per cycle).
* regarding traps and turrets: i don't use traps much but i like the idea of making them moveable, it could be useful against sappers notably. I use 2 sniper turrets and 1 autocannon, the sniper turrets are deadly and can be protected more easily than the autocannon thanks to their range. It's less useful than in previous versions (fewer centipedes, weaker armor) but they're still a good asset to fight large mech raids, and even pirates with their accuracy.
Interesting update! Looking forward to playing it.
So I thought it'd fun to switch it up. Let me know if you don't want me to post updates on this colony.
Was curious to see what kind of colonists & challenges I would end up with since I've never done it before.
Maybe I could start logging escape pods too if interested tho most of them have been incapable of violence or would only hurt the crew at this point. Wished I thought about grabbing the screenshots of colonists sooner. Had one pawn give up on the colony so far, didn't grab her stats. Asterisk by pawns name are the 3 who crashlanded.
Randy Rough
Boreal Forest: Flat
Crashlanded Scenario: Added wanderer joins every 3 days
(https://i.imgur.com/M4PSK9v.png) | (https://i.imgur.com/F4ZZRvK.png) |
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on July 23, 2018, 08:21:16 AM
* i've had a caravan ambushed by manhunter + tribespeople (https://imgur.com/DaR1LZ9). It was fun and looked like sometimes raids go wrong but i don't know if it was intended.
I've had this too yesterday, granted it was one animal and one pirate.
I'd just like to mention that the wildlife tab is so good. Like really, really great. Thank you for adding this.
Quote from: Tynan on July 23, 2018, 06:41:45 AM
I would love to hear how traps and turret defenses are fitting together this build. The goal is that complex trap/turret defenses (including killboxes, trap hallways, etc) should be really useful, but shouldn't be a hand-off free win against every threat. (Note that you can reinstall traps now, they do a lot more damage, but they're consumed when used, but they're cheaper. The material a trap is made from makes a big difference in how hard it hits.)
Trap rework: Double damage, cost to 40, disappear on use. Fixed a bug that made traps do too little damage. Reduced IED cost. Traps can be reinstalled.
40 steel for 1 frag? Definitely no.
Stone traps? Doubtfully. Seems like too much work just for 1 hit. (carry 2 chunks, cut blocks x2, carry to trap placement, build trap)
Probably ok at biomes with lot of wood.
Had a couple bugs to report on game launch and on load. Loading a save from the previous 1.0 build and received a the following errors as seen in the imgur images. In addition, the areas that mark where a pawn will mine and smooth are no longer visible.
https://imgur.com/a/kx2fV90 (https://imgur.com/a/kx2fV90)
(https://imgur.com/a/kx2fV90)
Similar trap related error here. Loaded my map and this keeps just running that number at the bottom of the log up, maybe 50 errors a second or so. I scrolled around and checked all my traps and none are sprung. I do have some side-by-side that were placed before that limit was put in place so maybe that's causing it?
I didn't try to play, just alt-f4'd out.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Came across the same thing as 5thHorseman. Destroyed traps and it went away.
Wild predators seem to be dying from infection at strangely high rates. I haven't even bothered to squad up and hunt them down on my last two maps ( jungle / boreal forest ). Lucky RNG possibly?
It's changed how the story plays out in my head. It went from: " Crap a grizzly, I better hunt this one down before it hunts down my miner away from the base " -- to -- " Your days are numbered grizzly, I'll see your corpse next to a few arctic foxes soon. "
My old traps turned into this (see the image).
Also I have these error log on game start:
RimWorld 1.0.1973 rev1175
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
RimWorld.VersionControl:LogVersionNumber() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\Version\VersionControl.cs:83)
Verse.Root:CheckGlobalInit() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:82)
Verse.Root:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:38)
Verse.Root_Entry:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:16)
Failed to find RimWorld.RecordDef named TrapsRearmed. There are 66 defs of this type loaded.
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.DefDatabase`1:GetNamed(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\DefDatabase.cs:166)
System.Reflection.MonoMethod:InternalInvoke(Object, Object[], Exception&)
System.Reflection.MonoMethod:Invoke(Object, BindingFlags, Binder, Object[], CultureInfo) (at /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Reflection/MonoMethod.cs:222)
System.Reflection.MethodBase:Invoke(Object, Object[]) (at /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Reflection/MethodBase.cs:115)
Verse.GenGeneric:InvokeStaticMethodOnGenericType(Type, Type, String, Object[]) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Gen\GenGeneric.cs:33)
Verse.GenDefDatabase:GetDef(Type, String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\DefDatabase.cs:209)
RimWorld.DefOfHelper:BindDefsFor(Type) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\DefOf.cs:61)
RimWorld.DefOfHelper:RebindAllDefOfs(Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\DefOf.cs:30)
Verse.PlayDataLoader:DoPlayLoad() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:149)
Verse.PlayDataLoader:LoadAllPlayData(Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\Databases\PlayDataLoader.cs:32)
Verse.Root:<Start>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:58)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
[attachment deleted due to age]
You have to kill your old traps in dev mode, otherwise they constantly spam error messages and lag the game.
My take on Tribal Start with Randy Rough->Hard->Pheobe Builder-> Randy Hard
Started in Mountainous, Temperate Forest -6 - 29*C, slate and granite, 30/60 growing days, currently pushing day 341 with, for now, bright future ahead.
Early game was rather uneventful on Randy Rough->Hard (at least nothing i could not handle) slowly carving myself into mountain. Since i did not plan well my colony was starving a couple of times (especially after i was testing my meteor shower mod in summer and went along with loosing all crops).
In general colony was not too well-off, i was not pushing towards too much wealth and had to buy food from called merchant a couple of times, but everyone was dressed in plate armor (good+), however my weapons were 2 poor shotguns, Heavy SMG and ikwas...
From technology standpoint i had Geothermal and medicine, and other minor required things.
2 colonist also joined : Miranda that could do nothing worthy except cleaning, and Gerber who was non-violent backup-medic cleaner.
Around day 170 patch came which 'fixed' Randy.
In following 10 days i got 2 heavy raids, 2 or 3 ships and of course again I had no food. One pawn got Brain dmg when i needed to calm him down when he wanted to slaughter my boomalope, and about 3 legs and 2 arms were missing from other colonists. First colonist to die was Miranda - she was melle-dmg-sponge and died gloriously under Centipide (or took a bullet that was targeted on Centipide). the same day (188) i had to succumb to changing storyteller, because after destroying last psychic ship, however base was intact i had no food and only 1 pawn barely mentally-ok to do some hunting, with rest of pawns in hospital on having mental breaks (or both).
When trying to continue on Randy i got raid the same day (reload), got psychic ship (reload and change to Pheobe Builder to recover from this rampage).
It took some time (~30 days), with some small annoyances (toxic fallout, normal raids) and i turned back Randy Rough.
Since i was aware that Randy behaves normally now, i researched guns, and shifted crops to have more food (that was still problem)
I got toxic fallout which ended pretty quick - still got one guy dementia and despite gathering all crops i did not have enough to survive winter
Then when starvation started another psychic ship, followed by another one, just when i've finished destroying previous. Luckily i managed to take down both with only one loss. Had to micromanage animals and do some manual hunting to ensure no one dies of starvation / animal revenge.
Some mental breaks did happen (especially my 20yo toxic-fallout-dementia guy likes to just wander in confusion every 2-3days).
In the meantime I had bigger area walled to secure power line and another geothermal as well as some trees - also some haygrass planted for animals (not enough) and another psychic ship (only lancers though). Also first winter without starvation ( in year 5505 )
I'v set up launchers to maybe go some caravaning/trade and will try some sunlamp growing for sustaining winter better.
Built also mortar battery for securing myself agains sieges.
Planted lots of hops to process into beer - and for that refashioned my base to make fridge bigger.
Had to destroy all traps since they were throwing errors in console after recent patch.
Another psychic ship - had to escort catatonic breakdown from under centipide. And also decimated some raiders at the same time (with help of scythers) out of which one survived long enough to make into prison (and possible recruitment i hope).
Nice surprise was that animals driven mad by psychic ship were attacking mechanoids also.
After, again, had to beat up some of my pawns that were in breakdown and starting to freeze/murder other pawns.
Infestations, due to base layout and granite walls/doors are not worth mentioning, since they do not pose any problem.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Am I the only one who thinks that taming animals isn't worth it anymore. I've played multiple Cassandra extreme games on some of the latast 1.0.xxxx builds and have notice that games where I keep no tamed animals vs taming 2:1 animal to pawn ratio, its like play easy mode vs actual extreme mode.
Here are some of my thoughts on taming animals:
The opportunity cost for taming animals is so bad I was wondering why I was even doing it. You have to dedicate a ridiculous amount of work time to even tame animals and then train them to be useful when you could uses the opportunity to actually uses your pawns do something useful like haul items themselves which there do a way better job than like 3-5 hauling animals combined. This wouldn't be so bad if you didn't need to constantly reinvested work time into to retraining them cause there lose training in 1.0. Your putting more work into the animals than animals will ever give back fighting or hauling. You also have to include the work used up to hunt/grow food for them, tending to there mountain of wounds as there always obtain ridiculous amount wounds in fights and the worst of all has to be the amount of work required to clean up the dirt there drag around everywhere. As mention in multiple other threads already, bonded animals is more of hinder than a actual benefit. Also I'm not sure if this is corrected but I believe one of the latest builds mention that difficultly is adjusted with the amount of tamed animals. If this is true, then there is more reason to not tame animals.
I like the idea of the taming mechanics however the current way the taming mechanics works its just doesn't work. Who in there right mind would put invest more work into a system and get less work return out of it. In is current state, I would recommended people killing off there starting animal straight away to avoid bonded animal death debuff later on in the game. Also kill off any other self-tamed animals that come along and don't tame any animals.
Pump vs Chain needs some love. Between the cycle time, accuracy, and range, it's hard to say the chain is much better. The increase in friendly fire is a real issue. What kills it for me is wealth. Pumps are sometimes valid as a keep a few around in case things get silly. Chains ... Same cost, function, and wealth range, you can just go with ARs or CRs. Chains do benefit from quality more ...
A lot of the issue is CR eclipses chain. Pump does not have a late game replacement.
While on small things, Auto Pistol shines as a training gun, which gives it purpose besides extra fluff. The machine pistol .... I can't find a reason to ever build one. I have found use for just about everything else, which is very good design in my book.
If I was going to change turrets in one way it would be to not make them explode. It both messes with my suspension of disbelief and makes it a lot harder to deploy them effectively. Why a electric powered SMG on a servo arm that only has 120 rounds of normal ammo has a bigger explosion then a frag gernade is ... Hard to reconcile. If it had it's own power source, like it needed chem fuel or something ...
I am military and I realize my own experience with fire arms ... Taints my suspension a bit. Autocannon acts a lot like a .50, only .50s use belts in the 100s of rounds in fixed positions. LMG's have more effective range then an AR. Etc. I get that fun and balance matters more. Pardon my degression.
It's a great game. I hope my feedback never fails to be about making it better. Cheers.
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 11:33:00 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that taming animals isn't worth it anymore. I've played multiple Cassandra extreme games on some of the latast 1.0.xxxx builds and have notice that games where I keep no tamed animals vs taming 2:1 animal to pawn ratio, its like play easy mode vs actual extreme mode.
Here are some of my thoughts on taming animals:
The opportunity cost for taming animals is so bad I was wondering why I was even doing it. You have to dedicate a ridiculous amount of work time to even tame animals and then train them to be useful when you could uses the opportunity to actually uses your pawns do something useful like haul items themselves which there do a way better job than like 3-5 hauling animals combined. This wouldn't be so bad if you didn't need to constantly reinvested work time into to retraining them cause there lose training in 1.0. Your putting more work into the animals than animals will ever give back fighting or hauling. You also have to include the work used up to hunt/grow food for them, tending to there mountain of wounds as there always obtain ridiculous amount wounds in fights and the worst of all has to be the amount of work required to clean up the dirt there drag around everywhere. As mention in multiple other threads already, bonded animals is more of hinder than a actual benefit. Also I'm not sure if this is corrected but I believe one of the latest builds mention that difficultly is adjusted with the amount of tamed animals. If this is true, then there is more reason to not tame animals.
I like the idea of the taming mechanics however the current way the taming mechanics works its just doesn't work. Who in there right mind would put invest more work into a system and get less work return out of it. In is current state, I would recommended people killing off there starting animal straight away to avoid bonded animal death debuff later on in the game. Also kill off any other self-tamed animals that come along and don't tame any animals.
i personally think animals still worth it <at least hauling ones>, just simply don't get too many of them when your "financial" situation can't support more animals
i tend to have special stockpiles, like cloth+herbal medicine+neutroamine next to drug table, stone chunks next to stone-cutting, cloth/devilstand next to tailoring, steel+plasteel+component next to fabrication+machining, vegetable next to stove, and then set all things to "drop on floor" <except for dangerous drugs> -- so hauling animals 're great help and my colonists barely need to walk around at all
the "upkeeping"'s barely noticable, since i just leave a dedicated trainer and some other "half-time" trainers
so, mathematically speaking, if i 've 5 dogs, i basically "lose" 1 hauler, "reassign" that hauler as a trainer, but get 5 "haulers" back
Quote from: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:11:23 PM
-You can now drag and reorder colonists in the colonist bar
ehmmm... where is this so called colonist bar?
Quote from: khun_poo on July 23, 2018, 12:05:12 PM
Quote from: Tynan on June 16, 2018, 11:11:23 PM
-You can now drag and reorder colonists in the colonist bar
ehmmm... where is this so called colonist bar?
the list of colonists at the top, those colonists' icons, right mouse pressed then drag along the "bar"
i tend to sort it by weapon range, then melee then non-violent last
Wood deterioration: Now it is back to unroofed and outdoors. Why not just have unroofed as a factor for wood deterioration?
irl just a roof is enough. Just keeping it dry should suffice for it not to rot.
Just my 2 cents. Cheers.
Let's talk inspirations. I shall rank them in no particular order:
1. Work frenzy: overall good buff, not really needed but useful if you want to craft gear real quick.
2. Go frenzy: Very useful for janitors and haulers.
3. Shoot frenzy: Probably the most useless. I never have a shoot frenzy colonist that ever happened during a raid and it's barely noticeable if you put it on your best hunter. More annoying if it happens to your best melee fighter.
4. Inspired trade: A nice bonus, but it sits right there with the first two inspirations. Suggestion: When making trade, state how much XP you get after making one.
5. Inspired recruitment: Depending on how many prisoners you have, this can tie with creativity as the most useful. No more 2 year long prison stays. As it can happen with any colonists with social, it makes recruiting much easier, bypassing the resistance part of the process.
6 Inspired surgery: The second most useless of aspirations, considering that a level 10 doctor can do surgery just fine. It's only useful early game, but by the time you get constant inspirations mid-game where everyone lives comfortably, it does not ever see much use.
7. Inspired creativity: replacing inspired art, it's likely the most useful for inspirations. It's the only way to get Legendaries that doesn't include quests, and it works on builders, artists, and crafters. An inspired colonists can make amazing beds, recreation furniture, or craft awesome armor.
Really, the only thing missing is inspired taming. It's basically the same with recruitment, but considering that sometimes you have thrumbos or really want a panther real bad, I think this would a sensible addition to 1.0.
Quote from: Copperwire on July 23, 2018, 11:35:25 AMWhile on small things, Auto Pistol shines as a training gun, which gives it purpose besides extra fluff. The machine pistol .... I can't find a reason to ever build one. I have found use for just about everything else, which is very good design in my book.
Ranged attacks are defaulted in experience. You gain as much experience shooting a gun that shoots every 1s than as with another that shoots every 5s.
Quote from: Koek on July 23, 2018, 12:08:50 PM
Wood deterioration: Now it is back to unroofed and outdoors. Why not just have unroofed as a factor for wood deterioration?
irl just a roof is enough. Just keeping it dry should suffice for it not to rot.
Just my 2 cents. Cheers.
well, if there's no deterioration, i'd devise a chessy trick as to chop off all the wood on map, leave it there, if i have dogs to haul them back, good, to some outdoor stockpile, and basically, now i dont have to worry about toxic fallout, poison, etc. etc., whatever that may set my map on fire & in some measly seconds cut off my wood supply
The game is 19 versions old and yet colonists play pool without pool cues.
I'm surprised u/daleksdeservevictory has yet to make RW comic about this.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 23, 2018, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 11:33:00 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that taming animals isn't worth it anymore. I've played multiple Cassandra extreme games on some of the latast 1.0.xxxx builds and have notice that games where I keep no tamed animals vs taming 2:1 animal to pawn ratio, its like play easy mode vs actual extreme mode.
Here are some of my thoughts on taming animals:
The opportunity cost for taming animals is so bad I was wondering why I was even doing it. You have to dedicate a ridiculous amount of work time to even tame animals and then train them to be useful when you could uses the opportunity to actually uses your pawns do something useful like haul items themselves which there do a way better job than like 3-5 hauling animals combined. This wouldn't be so bad if you didn't need to constantly reinvested work time into to retraining them cause there lose training in 1.0. Your putting more work into the animals than animals will ever give back fighting or hauling. You also have to include the work used up to hunt/grow food for them, tending to there mountain of wounds as there always obtain ridiculous amount wounds in fights and the worst of all has to be the amount of work required to clean up the dirt there drag around everywhere. As mention in multiple other threads already, bonded animals is more of hinder than a actual benefit. Also I'm not sure if this is corrected but I believe one of the latest builds mention that difficultly is adjusted with the amount of tamed animals. If this is true, then there is more reason to not tame animals.
I like the idea of the taming mechanics however the current way the taming mechanics works its just doesn't work. Who in there right mind would put invest more work into a system and get less work return out of it. In is current state, I would recommended people killing off there starting animal straight away to avoid bonded animal death debuff later on in the game. Also kill off any other self-tamed animals that come along and don't tame any animals.
i personally think animals still worth it <at least hauling ones>, just simply don't get too many of them when your "financial" situation can't support more animals
i tend to have special stockpiles, like cloth+herbal medicine+neutroamine next to drug table, stone chunks next to stone-cutting, cloth/devilstand next to tailoring, steel+plasteel+component next to fabrication+machining, vegetable next to stove, and then set all things to "drop on floor" <except for dangerous drugs> -- so hauling animals 're great help and my colonists barely need to walk around at all
the "upkeeping"'s barely noticable, since i just leave a dedicated trainer and some other "half-time" trainers
so, mathematically speaking, if i 've 5 dogs, i basically "lose" 1 hauler, "reassign" that hauler as a trainer, but get 5 "haulers" back
I personally think it takes way to long to train animal to haul things for it to ever
pay off when you could just have a dedicated hauler instead of a dedicate trainer. The hauler can haul straight away, doesn't need extra food, doesn't need to be retrained every couple of days hauls 5 times more effective than animals hauling and almost anyone can haul. Training animals to haul is literally using work to produce less work.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 23, 2018, 12:07:55 PM
the list of colonists at the top, those colonists' icons, right mouse pressed then drag along the "bar"
i tend to sort it by weapon range, then melee then non-violent last
Thank you. aww... so it's right-clicked, that's explain why I can't drag it *shy*.
well, they play cards without actually picking, throwing cards on table, watch a blacked-out TV screen, play chess with only the board xD
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 11:33:00 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that taming animals isn't worth it anymore. I've played multiple Cassandra extreme games on some of the latast 1.0.xxxx builds and have notice that games where I keep no tamed animals vs taming 2:1 animal to pawn ratio, its like play easy mode vs actual extreme mode.
Nothing is worth doing in Cassandra Extreme. The optimal move is to leave your colony in poverty and never develop it. It's the only way to consistently survive. In short, the only winning move is to not play.
RE: Training
It can be done in the winter, when your not harvesting. There is no reason to always have your trainer on training.
boomalope x 3, hauling animal <no limit>, caravan animal x3-x5 're what i usually have in my base, of course, among them, only hauling animals need training, i often fully train them <though i never really see them doing rescue, i'm sure -_- >
and the important part is that i dont use them in fight, so they never die, i never have to train them again & again, retrievers+husky being pets with 0% wildness require no time to train at all, and with 0% the training "deterioration" is also small, so well, eventhough i said that i have a dedicated trainer, he/she never actually spend all day on taming/training at all, just a few walk around at morning and that's enough to keep the whole "army" running
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 23, 2018, 12:22:25 PM
Nothing is worth doing in Cassandra Extreme. The optimal move is to leave your colony in poverty and never develop it. It's the only way to consistently survive. In short, the only winning move is to not play.
Cassandra Extreme is actually quite easy if you know all the tricks and cheese tactics in the game.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 23, 2018, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: Koek on July 23, 2018, 12:08:50 PM
Wood deterioration: Now it is back to unroofed and outdoors. Why not just have unroofed as a factor for wood deterioration?
irl just a roof is enough. Just keeping it dry should suffice for it not to rot.
Just my 2 cents. Cheers.
well, if there's no deterioration, i'd devise a chessy trick as to chop off all the wood on map, leave it there, if i have dogs to haul them back, good, to some outdoor stockpile, and basically, now i dont have to worry about toxic fallout, poison, etc. etc., whatever that may set my map on fire & in some measly seconds cut off my wood supply
I'm not talking about no deterioration at all. I'm talking about removing the indoors parameter for deterioration. I want my cute little woodshacks back :)
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 23, 2018, 12:30:31 PM
boomalope x 3, hauling animal <no limit>, caravan animal x3-x5 're what i usually have in my base, of course, among them, only hauling animals need training, i often fully train them <though i never really see them doing rescue, i'm sure -_- >
and the important part is that i dont use them in fight, so they never die, i never have to train them again & again, retrievers+husky being pets with 0% wilderness require no time to train at all, and with 0% the training "deterioration" is also small, so well, eventhough i said that i have a dedicated trainer, he/she never actually spend all day on taming/training at all, just a few walk around at morning and that's enough to keep the whole "army" running
You still need to feed them and there eat as much as a full human so your essentially hunting/growing food for an extra person. That takes work as well as clean there mess there drag around.
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 23, 2018, 12:22:25 PM
Nothing is worth doing in Cassandra Extreme. The optimal move is to leave your colony in poverty and never develop it. It's the only way to consistently survive. In short, the only winning move is to not play.
Cassandra Extreme is actually quite easy if you know all the tricks and cheese tactics in the game.
You mean cheese tactics other than keeping yourself poor to limit raid size? I'd define that as a cheese tactic, personally.
Could you perhaps provide some gameplay examples in 1.0 of people playing and consistently beating Cassandra Extreme? Or at least provide even some anecdotal evidence to back this up? How many hours of Cassandra extreme have you played in 1.0? How many times have you escaped? What strategies did you use to be able to do that consistently?
Quote
You still need to feed them and there eat as much as a full human so your essentially hunting/growing food for an extra person. That takes work as well as clean there mess there drag around.
well, i have a cleaner even if i dont have animals, so that basically no problem for me about dirt and what not, restrict them at certain area works too, structuring your rooms so necessary parts not having animals walking around also help
i have 1 full-time cook and 1 "on-reserve" so yeah, no problem, i just let them eat the spare vegetables/food when i already get more than enough, so no problem with that either, for boomalope and caravan animals, those 're grazing animals, so i just let them graze outside when there's grass, if not, well, hay/vegetable/kibble
and well, aside from training feeding, animals can feed themselves, hauling food themselves, so meh....
i set everyone capable of shooting on hunting 1, so all of them go out and hunt at the morning, traing a bit in shooting, so no problem, the hauling the dogs bring back worth much more than the cooking, growing space that it costs, which well, i "pay" for it even if i dont have animal, so actually not pay any cent at all
i dont see how a trainer+5 dogs dealing with a colony's worth of hauling not being more efficient than having only 1 hauler since as i said, i've a lot of next-to-work-bench stockpile, secondary low-priority stockpile, basically, having 5 dogs pay off all the load of crafters moving around getting crafting materials
i dont think i can 1 single hauler can do all the
1. hauling vegetable from fields into stockpiles+freezer
2. hauling finished crafting product to stockpile
3. hauling strangers' corpses to dumping zone, strangers' dropped item to stockpiles
4. hauling materials to next-to-bench stockpiles
5. hauling hunted animals' corpses
6. rescuing
7. hauling materials to building sites
8. haul all chunks lying around maps+mines to home's stockpile<s>
9. hauling cargo pods' drops
it's all about reducing colonists' time losing in walking around getting materials for me
the change in 1.0 basically is a nerf in mass animal strategy, so if u keep only a neccessary, effective, efficient number of animals, that u can support, there should be no problem
basically
1. how many colonists can u put as trainers?
2. how much power can u produce with ur power grids?
3. how many farm fields can u build and how many growers do u have?
4. how much hauling do u need?
5. what kind of animal do u need? animals for hauling? for war? for caravaning? for animal products?
if u have problem with 1 of the questionsl, u need adjustments to ur "army" of animals then
I had 8 yorkshire terrier join my colony event and then 31 pirate raid happen next. The previous raid was only 19 pirates. I don't know how it could jump so much in difficultly with 8 useless dogs joining my colony. Should I have killed all the dogs?
I also had the same thing happen when megasloth self-tamed at the start of the game and the next raid was 6. Previous was 1.
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 01:08:04 PM
I had 8 yorkshire terrier join my colony event and then 31 pirate raid happen next. The previous raid was only 19 pirates. I don't know how it could jump so much in difficultly with 8 useless dogs joining my colony. Should I have killed all the dogs?
for me, any animal except for caravaning animal, hauling animal<preferably husky+retriever since 0 wildness>, and boomalope, 's useless, i vote yorkshire meats
What I trying to say is that the amount of tamed animals you have shouldn't effect the size of the raid by that much.
there'snt much provided to really "analyze" if the 8 yorkshire really "make" a 19 pirates raid "turn into" a 31 one
since the 2 raids' types can be fundamentally different, the 19 might 've been sapper or raid with doomsday, while the 31 one might 've been "just a normal pirate raid with "normal" weapons", then there's the increase in wealth during the gap, etc. etc.
my last run, i 've got attacked once by a "smaller" group of pirate, and once by a "bigger" group, but i saw nothing wrong, since the smaller one 've got a doomsday launcher with them, while the bigger one's pirates just have normal guns
then there'were also the 2 mech raids, 1 with measly 5 mechs, the other with 20 of them, but 1 of them was right after i got a big ass infestation <the maller one>, while the other was when my colonists 'd been enjoying a peaceful month
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 01:13:41 PM
What I trying to say is that the amount of tamed animals you have shouldn't effect the size of the raid by that much.
It doesn't. One yorkshire terrier is worth $200. Your wealth increased by $1600, which is not a lot. You probably had an increasingly difficult raid depending on how many pawns you have, their equipment, art you have installed... sometimes the game decides to ramp up the raid difficulty. Yorkies are not supposed to be something a new colony would want, being useless for work and only giving a modical mood boost for colonists from nuzzling. You're better off either slaughtering them for meat/leather or selling them. I'd opt for the latter if you're not having food problems, because the money can be actually used for something useful, and their leather is not very useful nor profitable.
If animals are going to count significantly toward raid size, maybe there needs to be strict distinction between utility animals and war animals so it's clear whether your offensive/defensive capabilities have been increased.
On the other hand, maybe it's okay to let people build their Muffalo Mob or Alpaca Strike Force and steamroll the enemy at the cost of major animal husbandry and upkeep. I don't see why that gameplay needs to be eliminated, or even balanced against. Those who find it cheesy don't have to play that way.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 23, 2018, 01:26:11 PM
there'snt much provided to really "analyze" if the 8 yorkshire really "make" a 19 pirates raid "turn into" a 31 one
since the 2 raids' types can be fundamentally different, the 19 might 've been sapper or raid with doomsday, while the 31 one might 've been "just a normal pirate raid with "normal" weapons", then there's the increase in wealth during the gap, etc. etc.
The 31 raid had a doomsday weapon and a tri rocket luncher. I know cause thats the reason my game ended.
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 23, 2018, 01:26:11 PM
there'snt much provided to really "analyze" if the 8 yorkshire really "make" a 19 pirates raid "turn into" a 31 one
since the 2 raids' types can be fundamentally different, the 19 might 've been sapper or raid with doomsday, while the 31 one might 've been "just a normal pirate raid with "normal" weapons", then there's the increase in wealth during the gap, etc. etc.
The 31 raid had a doomsday weapon and a tri rocket luncher. I know cause thats the reason my game ended.
Maybe you should have a psychic lance ready for those guys. Insanity Lance on tri-launcher = raid gone.
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 23, 2018, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 23, 2018, 01:26:11 PM
there'snt much provided to really "analyze" if the 8 yorkshire really "make" a 19 pirates raid "turn into" a 31 one
since the 2 raids' types can be fundamentally different, the 19 might 've been sapper or raid with doomsday, while the 31 one might 've been "just a normal pirate raid with "normal" weapons", then there's the increase in wealth during the gap, etc. etc.
The 31 raid had a doomsday weapon and a tri rocket luncher. I know cause thats the reason my game ended.
Maybe you should have a psychic lance ready for those guys. Insanity Lance on tri-launcher = raid gone.
I really hope the game isn't intend to work like this, i.e. "if you happen to have the *one* good counter to X event, you live, otherwise, your colony is gone".
I'm now ~40 days in a new naked survival start, cassandra extreme, tropical forest flat, non-violent colonist start.
I planned to defeat the first raid with tamed animals, since my colonist had a decent skill in that, but taiming and training on top of the other duties was too slow to get some animals and train them in obedience. So for the first raid I had to bunker my pawn in his hut and wait/repain/rebuild until the raider gave up. I lost the furniture outside but not much worth.
Some time after that a space refugee escape pod came, so I thought I get a second colonist, but after healing him he decided to walk away so I had to capture and recruit him later.
For the next raid I decided to switch to traps (game version from yesterday). 2 raiders came and started to burn my crops, then after that they decided to walk in my trap corridor. One got downed, the other ran away after that. I extended the traps a bit and defended a second raid (tribal, again 1 downed, 1 dead, 2 ran away) and a few mad animals with it.
Later I got 2 more escape pods, 1 was a pirate who ran away before I could "rescue" him, the other was a second non-violent pawn I rescued and he joined my colony. Shortly after that I recruited one of the prisoners. So far with the last version.
After the patch I mostly focused to building a stone house and walling my crops in, so that the next raid doesn't burn them down again. I defended 2 raids and a manhunter pack of huskies with traps, more to that later. Otherwise I finally got a colonist that was not non-violent, so I could hunt for meat and leather. I only used manual hunting so far since there were only agressive animals and I wanted to not get surprised by a revenge when my pawn shoots from too close.
Recruitment:
The resitant seems fair and logical. The escape pod guy had ~5 and 50% difficulty, the stronger raider (not sure if pirate or outlander) had ~15 and 66% difficulty. I still have him and he is at 7.4 resistance now, although I stopped talking to him for a week or so to focus on other work.
One weird thing is that when I capure my own colonist after a mental break, he also has resistance and difficulty but I can just release him and don't need to recruit. Maybe remove the recruit option from prisoners with the player faction.
I miss the stat for peaceful arrest chance on the stat window. Was it intended to hide it?
Traps:
I mainly use wood traps since I'm in a forest and they deal 50 damage (30 before). Although the increased damage had no effect on the small sample size of my game. Before the update I needed 3 traps for a human to down/kill him and after the update it were still 3. It is more that the trap often hits an arm/ear/eye, destroys it anyway and the pawn moves on. A trap could hit more parts but with less damage as an alternative.
I feel 40 wood for a single use is on on forests, but on other biomes it is quite expensive. It's basicly 120 wood to kill a raider. Steel isn't worth it since there are so many other uses for steel and it would probably still need ~3 traps because if the above stated stuff. Steel traps would benefit and balace the investment from the mentioned change to deal damage to more parts. At the moment they deal 100 damage which is mostly overkill.
Stone traps deal 60 damage and the cost is more reasonable since there are a lot of chunks on the map and deep drilling later gives them indefinitely. The problem with stone traps is that they take a long time to build. It was not a huge problem before the changes since rearming existed, now it has way more impact. I have not tried enough of them to say it is too much, just that it has more impact now.
Until now the traps where really effective to a point where I didn't need to fight at all. (In this case I also can't fight at all until recently, so it is good and needed). In a normal game, it might be a too safe way to get through the early game. The first sapper- or droppod raid will change that of cause and I fear that in my current game and try to prepare for it.
IEDs:
What I really like about the cost changes, is that the builder now only has to walk once to the blueprint. It was really time intensive to spread IEDs around the map on important positions. Now with them costing the same as firering a mortar shell, I will spread IEDs even more around the map. They have not much downside in just staying there but the huge advantage of being more precise than firering a mortar. The precision of mortars is an issue when not using many. One or two mortars early are basicly useless while later spamming a lot can shredder a raid. I would like to see that single mortars still have a good use altough I have no good idea how to archive that and not make mortar spam op.
Devilstrand:
I wanted to try and rush devilstrand the game, but it is simply not possible to research much early on naked start. I think the increased cost may be enough to make it a decent investment and an impactful decision on other starts, but I have not tested it. I may do that later if I'm motivated.
Random stuff:
- I had a few cases where my colonist was outside to chop wood, but then he decides to feed a prisoner, takes the meal out of his inventory and starts to walk back. The main annoyance here is that I can't order him to carry wood on the way back, since he would drop the meal and someone else will later waste time to get it or it rots. The same is basicly when they want to eat for themselfes and happens quite a lot after fighting a raid and undrafting: They instantly take the meal out of their inventory and want to eat on spot (and get the without table debuff) instead of just carrying some drop from the raiders home and take their meal there. Improving the opportunistic hauling here might be a lot of work. I would even be happy when they just don't get their meal out or can out it back in so I can manual force them to carry something without dropping the meal.
- On a side note to that, feeding a founded prisoner is doctoring, so even if my doctor doesn't do warden work (as in the example above), he still does that stuff above and wants to feed the prisoner. So I basicly have to remove his doctor work so he can mine or plant cut somewhere outside without walking back often while the cook/warden next to the prison just chills on his stove.
- I really wish there was an alternative system to give works based on all colonists. So instead of "who is the first whose priority allows to do warden work now", it could be "who is near the target and allowed to skip his main work for short side work". This would also help on flickering switches a lot, since it's basicly a random pawn who just happended to finish his current work so the workgiver can run, gets the flick job even if he is far away, and not the guy crafting on the bench next to it.
- The force option in the rightclick menu for doing a job should be possible even when the work is disallowed in the work panel (of cause not if he can't do the work at all). I currently give most colonists priority "4" on flick to be able to manually command the right pawn to flick a bench. The infotext for him not being assigned to the job could stay as a warning that it may be inefficient.
- Colonist still walk to a field, plant one crop and then decide to go sleeping or something. I know it's hard to improve this with adding good enough foresight, just wanted to say this. As someone who cares a lot about efficiency on the colonists jobs, this is quite annoying sometimes.
- A similar thing is when a colonist plants a field or mines an ore and he stops before the last plant (at a few % or the ore hp). I would like a "this zone is almost done, so I finish it before doing my need stuff".
- Job queueing is a blessing. It helps on the problems above to manually command it. Although it is quite tedious to do that a lot to sow the last plants of a zone or just force to plant an important zone or clean an important room. For these works a "sow this zone" or "clean this room" option on rightclick would be really helpful where it makes sense and is not that complicated.
- I miss consistency in force jobs in general. When I force a pawn to work on a tailor bench, he works there like crazy for hours until he almost starves, while force mining he doesn't even finish to mine that block and stops after a certain time. He could at least mine the complete block or add a "mine this continuous designated area". (I know there is a mod that helps with some of this, but I think it is a helpful enough thing to add to the base game. Even for the players who don't micro often. And on higher difficulties efficiency is really important, especially early.)
Graphs attached and a timelapse again since you liked it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WrcJ492M_I
[attachment deleted due to age]
I have a save that was running on version 1972, slightly modded. Tried loading on 1973 and all entities are stuck spamming the logs with System.MissingFieldException: Field 'RimWorld.JobDefOf.RearmTrap' not found. even after removing all traps from the save.
Full log is here: https://git.io/fN8rS
I know saves can break between these versions, but since it is probably related to the last update I thought I'd post it here, see if it's a possible problem going forward.
I have the same error, it's not related to saves, it happens on the start of the application, before you load any game.
Regarding trap error spam, as mentioned before it will go away if you dev-mode destroy the traps that were built before the update, you can tell which ones by selecting them, they won't show options. You have to pause the game to stop the spam first.
Quote from: Crow_T on July 23, 2018, 02:22:27 PM
Regarding trap error spam, as mentioned before it will go away if you dev-mode destroy the traps that were built before the update, you can tell which ones by selecting them, they won't show options. You have to pause the game to stop the spam first.
Found problem, see edit.
As stated in my post, my problem happens AFTER removing all traps. It is most likely an issue with a mod instead of just a version switch problem. I'll investigate more, there's no need to worry about it.
Edit: For any with the same problem, in my case it's caused by the mod "While You're Up" most likely not being updated yet. Disabling it should fix it for now.
Well there goes trapped hallway tactic along with any usefulness traps had. Trap damage was already mostly enough to destroy nearly any body part when made from stone and absolutely any if made from steel\plasteel. Now to overkill someone's ear or toe several times over we pay 40 materials, which is heaps worse than even turret maintenance. At least a turret usually manages to kill some people before barrel change is needed.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 23, 2018, 03:08:57 PM
Well there goes trapped hallway tactic along with any usefulness traps had. Trap damage was already mostly enough to destroy nearly any body part when made from stone and absolutely any if made from steel\plasteel. Now to overkill someone's ear or toe several times over we pay 40 materials, which is heaps worse than even turret maintenance. At least a turret usually manages to kill some people before barrel change is needed.
It still works to a limited degree with wood in forest biomes since they now do almost as much damage as steel traps did, but that still just means the best biomes in the game got better and every other biome got worse. That's on top of that already being true with tree planting being nerfed for some reason.
This.
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Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 23, 2018, 12:40:12 PM
You mean cheese tactics other than keeping yourself poor to limit raid size? I'd define that as a cheese tactic, personally.
Could you perhaps provide some gameplay examples in 1.0 of people playing and consistently beating Cassandra Extreme? Or at least provide even some anecdotal evidence to back this up? How many hours of Cassandra extreme have you played in 1.0? How many times have you escaped? What strategies did you use to be able to do that consistently?
All of them, so, like, 100 hours? And never had anything unwinnable, using a mountain base killbox and micro. Plus there's cheese that makes door abuse look tame.
I actually like the trap changes. I don't think 40 is low enough of a cost for one-use traps, but 30 might be the magic number. I might mod it to test it out.
Either way, I did play with the new traps, so this is no theory crafting - and they certainly felt far more deadly. Before this change even my steel traps were a joke and that's why I didn't use them. 70 steel for something that barely wounds someone? Bad. But now my marble stone traps hurt so bad, they gave a boar 3 deadly bleeding wounds, instantly downing it. That's more what I imagine from a stone or better trap.
So usefulness: Definitely there. Cost? MAYBE too high, but definitely not much. Testing 30 materials now.
The exclusion zone is also fine for me. I think putting down a crapload of traps so they are worthwhile is dumb. I rather have big exclusion zones but deadly traps than weak traps that are only good if spammed.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 23, 2018, 03:08:57 PM
... Now to overkill someone's ear or toe several times over we pay 40 materials, which is heaps worse than even turret maintenance. ...
That sounds more like a problem that can be fixed by tweeking the likelihood of which body parts the trap would hit.
Dead fall traps would not have the same kind of "misses" as a gun or even a melee weapon so it would make sense to me that it should have modified chances at hitting specific parts of the body.
For example, a bear trap(if it existed in the game) should have a significantly increased chance to hit legs and feet, since it would be a hilariously rare situation for it to hit a victims ear.
I'd rather have weaker traps, that you can set up once and rearm, than yet another one-use constant drain on resources. And having to rebuild them each time a raid comes is just way too bad. As it was previously said it just makes some maps that overflow with cheap resources yet again better to live on than others where resources are scarse, because security options are more dependant on resources.
I guess it goes well alongside current threat generation system, since you have to allocate a lot more resources to defense than earlier, that are actually lost completely (barrel change, consumable traps), which make your defense stronger, while your "combat useless" wealth less. But i really don't like that kind of balancing. It forces you to pour way too much resources and labor to just survive next onslaught, rather than develop your colony :(
Hrm.. Well, the trap change kinda destroys any possible use past the very early game due to scaling threats, will probably just have to restart my older save because it will pretty much just doom the fort (might actually start a tundra game anyways since I haven't played a super hard map yet). Or wait till an update that removes it while I'm modding ;D Normally I'd just see how I'd adapt to a change rather than work out the theory only, but this is kind of a killer for that particular strategy.
The main issue is that that the purpose of a trap corridor currently is to cut down on maintenance of turrets on higher difficulties. It felt kind of balanced to me because you still needed to build turrets anyways to deal with drop pods and sappers so it is an investment that only pays off after a while, and by itself doesn't solve everything. The only thing unbalanced about traps currently is it's clearly superior to an all turret strategy.
I personally would just prefer traps being more expensive so perhaps they mean more of a long term investment. As it stands now, this means turret only is the only "heavy security" possibility, with traps just being something you might use to survive until turrets. If death to the trap corridor is what you're aiming for this will get rid of it, though.
Just some math on traps to explain the reasoning: I think you would expect a trap in the corridor to trigger about 20 times before getting huge influxes of steel trade/LRMS/Drilling/etc. If they cost half, are single use and need work to be rebuilt, and do double damage, they're about 5-8 times less effective until you've got a comfy late game fort. So this is just a nuke rather than a nerf as far as a trap maze is concerned ;) Like maybe I can see people using a trap maze behind turrets as an emergency fallback, but that's kind of an extreme late game fluff.
OTOH, I can see this style of traps working if they were super cheap and half work, like ~15 or so cost. Or just adding your stuff to trap re-arming, like 5-10 or something. That second thing would be preferable I would think, although probably a bit of work.
tl;dr This kills the deadfall maze, will end up needing to try and build a new strategy out of IEDs for late game traps to work. Maybe not a bad thing? Either way, I think 20 stuffed traps is a better starting point as that also kills a deadfall maze.
Quote from: Aerial on July 23, 2018, 01:41:19 PM
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 23, 2018, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: mastertea on July 23, 2018, 01:30:52 PM
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 23, 2018, 01:26:11 PM
there'snt much provided to really "analyze" if the 8 yorkshire really "make" a 19 pirates raid "turn into" a 31 one
since the 2 raids' types can be fundamentally different, the 19 might 've been sapper or raid with doomsday, while the 31 one might 've been "just a normal pirate raid with "normal" weapons", then there's the increase in wealth during the gap, etc. etc.
The 31 raid had a doomsday weapon and a tri rocket luncher. I know cause thats the reason my game ended.
Maybe you should have a psychic lance ready for those guys. Insanity Lance on tri-launcher = raid gone.
I really hope the game isn't intend to work like this, i.e. "if you happen to have the *one* good counter to X event, you live, otherwise, your colony is gone".
Well no, you have plenty of counters.
You can use Psychic artifacts. You can snipe the rocketeers. You can charge them with shield-users (which block explosive damage). You can use your Jogger pawn to kite the missiles and receive less damage. You can use Joe the Violent/Dumb/Skilled Labor refugee as the target. You can send Mini-me, the deadly squirrel that self-tamed as a target. You can position a forward-turret.
There are plenty of strategies. I've suggested the most direct approach to deal with those guys.
Food poisoning doesn't feel realistic, fair or fun. Cassandra Classic, Survival Challenge, Crashlanded. I have a colonist with a cooking skill of 4 and single passion that upgraded to 5. Entire colony still got food poisoning (incompetent cook) and then we were raided and got destroyed. These meals were simple meals made out of rice and potatoes and it just doesn't feel right for a meal like that to give that many people food poisoning regardless of cooking skill. However, level 5 cooking says "significant familiarity," which to me feels like you shouldn't be tainting potato and rice meals at all! It would be alright if having food poisoning in 1.0 wasn't so brutal. The food poisoning mechanic in 1.0 is wrecking the early game for me unless I specifically choose a good cook. Feels wrong. 298 hours of RimWorld for me, first post because this is seriously affecting my enjoyment.
Been playing more on my arid map, and have thoughts on the new "refillable" wood passive coolers. I use them when there's a heat wave, which is one a year so far, just to supplement my regular electrical coolers--we're not tribal, so we don't constantly need them, but they work great to temporarily keep the beer from spoiling, avoid slept in the heat debuff, etc. After the heat wave is over I don't need them anymore, so one of two things happens: either I manually mark them all for removal, or I forget to do that and my pawns waste A LOT of my scarce and valuable wood supply refilling them, and then when I realize what's happened I get none of it back. It would be nice to have a toggle on passive coolers for "Auto-refill on/off", kind of like the one traps have for auto-rearming.
Come to think of it, the same toggle would be great for torches. I have some set up in my fields in places where I don't want to risk fire from electrical cables (it's kind of hilarious that cables are more of a fire hazard than an actual open flame, but whatever) and my pawns waste a lot of wood trying to keep them filled in the rain. It would be nice to tell them not to bother until the storm passes.
While I'm thinking about hauling jobs, I just want to say that the new ability to autonomously grab stuff to be hauled en route to doing a new task is probably the greatest part of the entire update and I mean that completely sincerely.
Play report:
Cassandra Extreme, Naked Brutality, flat tropical swamp without river or road but relatively close to a friendly town. This was with the patch that made traps one-use items.
Zack was my starting pawn with fairly good skills all around, but sadly, very low social skill. He was able to set up everything that was required for immediate survival and even managed to place two steel traps. The first raider instantly died to a trap. It turns out that these new traps are pretty good at relieving some or all the pressure of raids, even if they're material intensive. On a tropical swamp wood is extremely abundant and so I continued to rely a lot on wooden traps.
I did have some problems with raiders preferring to set fire to my crops rather than walk into my trapped alleys. In response, the most important growing zones were walled off. Mad animal events and animals turned manhunter due to hunting did often set of traps. I can see how that could be a problem on maps without as much wood.
A medicine cargo pod drop arrived at some point which proved very helpful to deal with disease.
As far as reserch goes, I researched the techs to unlock the heavy SMG first. This turned out to be a complete waste of time since raiders provided plenty of bolt action rifles and machine pistols, which are the kind of weapons I wanted. Heavy SMGs would be even better than machine pistols but I did not have enough components for producing my own heavy SMGs in addition to setting up a freezer. Machine pistols in trap riddled alleys worked surprisingly well though.
I was unable to recruit more than a pawn or two due to several limitations. Many raiders were psychological or physical wrecks not worth having. I even saw a 83 year old with multiple health problems whhich I found amusing. Some of the potential recruits would only be able to contribute as melee fighters and I had enough melee fighters already. I would have wanted to recruit a few passable raiders from later raids but nobody in my colony had good social skills, so I used some of the medicine to harvest organs instead. Not for selling but for my own pawns.
Smoke weed proved useful in dealing with psychic drone and the effect of organ harvesting.
It all went horribly wrong when a siege raid appeared in the evening, just as my tired pawns wanted to go to bed! I had no wake-up, so I made the decision to let them rest a bit and then send them out with bolt action rifles. Unfortunately I was a bit tired too at this point and let the mortar fire a shot into my base. It was a direct hit against Zack, my starting pawn and my only good cook and researcher. It instantly killed him and injured another pawn, who was my second shooter. At this point I decided to send my only two shooters to try and stop the siege. They succeeded, but one was wounded in addition to also being slowed down by armor, and wasn't able to get back to the base. The raiders decided to kidnap him. That left me with only three pawns, two meleers and one shooter.
At this point I stopped playing because it was apparent that I was tired and making mistakes. It may be possible to recover from this disaster but I strongly suspect that the next raids will be devastating due to lack of firepower. Traps alone are not sufficient, and melee pawns are not very useful without shield belts which I don't have, the nearby town doesn't have, and which will take a while to research and produce on my own due to my main researcher being dead. With wake-up or my own mortar this would have been much easier.
Anyway, all considered I like these new traps but wonder how good they are on maps with scarce wood. There is a nice variety in raids. Early smithing/gun smithing seems good only for simple helmets (too many filler techs?). In fact, had I rushed microelectronics I would probably have had shield belts by the time I needed them. I continue to hate how hard it is to get that pawns I want or need (why do so many pawns that are trigger-happy or careful shooters have very low shooting skill and no passion?). There are too many animals join, mad animal, animal self tamed events. The animals skill is still not very useful other than for specific playstyles (my hunter with 11 in animals still very frequently triggered manhunter in animals he was hunting). I find animals mostly a nuisance to deal with and just keep one or two pack animals and butcher the rest. I do like the idea of setting up a farm with cows and pigs but it seems costly with questionable benefits.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Suggestion time!
Been playing for years, and I have to say that overall I am loving 1.0.
I especially love how the "smooth walls" job was incorporated into this version, but I would really love to see it separated from "smooth floors". In other words, "smooth surface" should be broken up into two separate designations: smooth floors and smooth walls. Sometimes I just want to smooth only the floors, or only the walls, and not have the whole map cluttered with the smooth surface designations, slowing down construction. At this point, it's not really difficult to pick and choose which surface gets smoothed but I find it clumsy and inefficient. Would love to see this made into two separate tasks.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. Keep up the good work!
Story time:
Cassandra, rough.
Temperate Forest + River + mountains.
Firstly, I looked hard to find a mountain without caves but despite this, there are still a couple of caves (plus insects) on this map. I wall off part of the map to avoid insect incursions and get to work on my base.
Day 6 or so it's all going well enough, I've got a freezer built, a large rich soil area planted up and a basic room or two. I suddenly see one of my colonists under attack the other side of the map! I realise that what happened is that our friendly hunter gave up hunting a muffalo and went to sleep. This muffalo wandered into a cave and died next to a nest.
Our non-violent pawn has wandered right into the middle of a insect nest to try to haul away the dead muffalo, leading to her premature death. As a rule I never reload but I felt cheated out of a playthrough this time. I reloaded the auto-save and marked forbidden the muffalo.
A few days later and the insects have been 'helpful' taking care of the occasional raider. I've set down some traps near to catch the odd wandering insect and any mad animals. The muffalo are still herding around the insect cave.
I decide to try to wall in the cave better. But even at the very edge of the cave the insects are aggro'ed and kill my colonist trying to put up the wall. The colonist stands no chance, the insects are fast enough that as soon as one hits it is game over for them.
This time it's my fault so I accept her fate but there's no coming back from this, I'm still at only 3 colonists at whichever day I'm at, some time toward the end of summer I think, and the dying pawn is the wife of one of my other colonists. The inevitable loss of both my only good construction worker and taking a long debuff is going to kill off this attempt hard.
I really need to re-evaluate how I play, the jump from medium to rough is proving far too difficult.
That said, I'm enjoying the trap changes. I think I preferred the previous version but the current traps are nice and deadly. Unfortunately even with "auto-rebuild" on they're not rebuilding in the current patch.
A single steel trap can take down an early game threat reliably. Almost too reliably, none of the raids got near my base because of "random" traps carefully laid near cover. As soon as I open fire they dive for that cover and die.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 22, 2018, 11:57:46 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on July 22, 2018, 10:10:44 PM
I am somewhat puzzled by all the concern about devilstrand.
If you look at the armor / EHP relations, armor values around 50% or below have very low relevance to combat efficiency. And 51% was the value of the old excellent dstrand duster.
Considering Flak Jackets and pants are 40% sharp base, are they ever worth even wearing, let alone producing? Seems like you might as well not bother with them, then.
Indeed.
If you are worrying about what duster / jacket to make and all of your pawns don't have flak vests, you have your priorities very misplaced...
(https://i.imgur.com/0MQt3Vv.png)
Phobe Chillax Extreme Commitment mode ( I turn it over to Randy for part 2!)
Year-long growing temperate forest.
Naked and alone start on with a Tribe
This is the first time that I was actually successful in building a colony on my scenario.
TLDR: Traps are still really good, although you need to engineer them in a clever way!
Here is a comprehensive test of the new trap system. As you can see this maze was pretty effective. Even when it is made of wood it withstands even smart raiders. Raiders actually run through this and hit every single trap I laid out for them while ignoring other targets. The other thing that I found was that the cost of rebuilding them didn't affect me whatsoever. All in all, there are 17 tests of this maze as I played through the game.
I cut out all the boring parts for the video and only showed the raids. Each raid has real game context before the raid. Testing how well the trap system helps out even with sick, injured and pissed off colonists. This is part one. I will upload part two later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDo9q9ojJtU&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDo9q9ojJtU&feature=youtu.be)
Quote from: bbqftw on July 23, 2018, 06:39:47 PM
If you are worrying about what duster / jacket to make and all of your pawns don't have flak vests, you have your priorities very misplaced...
Except that flak vests are gated behind 2900 research points. Inclement weather isn't.
What I am missing right now is WAGONS.
Even tribals should be able to put wagons behind their pack animals. I understand a muffalo can't carry 200kg - but it sure can pull that. Weight restriction is a big problem for me when caravaning, or better said the last big problem. Interface is good now, speed is reasonable, etc..
It would be rather easy to implement. It's just an item with negative weight essentially - maybe it might have a speed debuff? But I would rather put the cost into the actual resource cost. I wouldn't mind if a wagon would cost the same as a watermill (minus the components).
The minimum would be a wagon for pack animals, though I wouldn't mind a smaller, cheaper version for humanoid pawns to pull.
This would also open up some new fun events: Broken wheel - you get a small scenario map and have to fix up the wagon. If you take too long you will get attacked... repeatedly. And the reverse: You find another caravan with a broken wheel and can decide to ambush them as they aren't prepared or help them out and get a reward.
Also... the density of faction bases feels a bit sparse. I always have to choose to play in a tile I want (terrain, biome, stone types) or near several faction bases... basically can never have both and that's a shame. It means I end up NEVER trading a faction base or attacking a pirate base.
Quote from: Greep on July 22, 2018, 07:13:16 PM
Actually, if it doesn't take too much work, switching the downed adaptation to permanent injury adaptation would help out legit players and simultaneously get rid of the exploit. My 6 guys with eyes shot out and prosthetic arms aren't too great but they weren't even downed ::)
I've always wondered if there's an adaptation/colony wealth scoring consideration for pawn value.
I mean, when you have your best pawns not downed or killed by just permanently injured in substantial ways, you end up with lots of pawns most of which are basically useless... but I fear pushing value up due to pawn count.
This comes up fairly frequently for me, as it's not uncommon for particularly bloodthirsty and suicidal raiders to rush in close (particularly in the early/mid game before I've got lots of well armed and armored pawns) and do significant amounts of permanent damage.
Quote from: zizard on July 23, 2018, 04:11:34 PM
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 23, 2018, 12:40:12 PM
You mean cheese tactics other than keeping yourself poor to limit raid size? I'd define that as a cheese tactic, personally.
Could you perhaps provide some gameplay examples in 1.0 of people playing and consistently beating Cassandra Extreme? Or at least provide even some anecdotal evidence to back this up? How many hours of Cassandra extreme have you played in 1.0? How many times have you escaped? What strategies did you use to be able to do that consistently?
All of them, so, like, 100 hours? And never had anything unwinnable, using a mountain base killbox and micro. Plus there's cheese that makes door abuse look tame.
Could you share some information regarding that? Your experiences seem to be vastly differently from mine so I'm really interested in hearing how you're playing differently.
Tynan, are bionic livers and kidneys planned? I have a druggie colonist that ruined her liver on beer. She cancer and cirrhosis. I can't find a liver on the market anywhere and all the, ahem, donors keep dying during the, uh, vetting process. She's doing ok for now but I do worry about her future.
I would recommend changing grid usage to grid excess since that's what the number really represents.
When I try to target the ground (A corpse actually) with an incediary launcher it won't fire and I get the following error in red on the dev console:
Exception in JobDriver tick for pawn Tau driver=JobDriver_AttackStatic (toilIndex=1) driver.job=(AttackStatic (Job_1334089) A=(110, 0, 80)) lastJobGiver=Verse.AI.ThinkNode_QueuedJob
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at RimWorld.GenHostility.HostileTo (Verse.Thing t, RimWorld.Faction fac) [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Planet\Faction\GenHostility.cs:90
at Verse.Verb.TryStartCastOn (LocalTargetInfo castTarg, Boolean surpriseAttack, Boolean canHitNonTargetPawns) [0x00115] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Verbs\Verb.cs:181
at Verse.Pawn.TryStartAttack (LocalTargetInfo targ) [0x00065] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:1617
at Verse.AI.JobDriver_AttackStatic+<MakeNewToils>c__Iterator0.<>m__1 () [0x00111] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Casting\JobDriver_AttackStatic.cs:70
at Verse.AI.JobDriver.DriverTick () [0x001e2] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:345
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.JobUtility:TryStartErrorRecoverJob(Pawn, String, Exception, JobDriver) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobUtility.cs:22)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:351)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:131)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:556)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:512)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 23, 2018, 10:05:07 PM
When I try to target the ground (A corpse actually) with an incediary launcher it won't fire and I get the following error in red on the dev console:
I just got this with an Orbital Bombardment targeting of the ground.
Exception in JobDriver tick for pawn Ian driver=JobDriver_AttackStatic (toilIndex=1) driver.job=(AttackStatic (Job_8975626) A=(62, 0, 55)) lastJobGiver=Verse.AI.ThinkNode_QueuedJob
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at RimWorld.GenHostility.HostileTo (Verse.Thing t, RimWorld.Faction fac) [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Planet\Faction\GenHostility.cs:90
at Verse.Verb.TryStartCastOn (LocalTargetInfo castTarg, Boolean surpriseAttack, Boolean canHitNonTargetPawns) [0x00115] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Verbs\Verb.cs:181
at Verse.Pawn.TryStartAttack (LocalTargetInfo targ) [0x00065] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:1617
at Verse.AI.JobDriver_AttackStatic+<MakeNewToils>c__Iterator0.<>m__1 () [0x00111] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\Casting\JobDriver_AttackStatic.cs:70
at Verse.AI.JobDriver.DriverTick () [0x001e2] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:345
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.JobUtility:TryStartErrorRecoverJob(Pawn, String, Exception, JobDriver) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobUtility.cs:22)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:351)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:131)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:556)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:297)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:261)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:512)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
My lone naked colonist landed in a flat jungle biome (Cassandra extreme). An unlucky start in what would prove to be a long ordeal. He just wasn't a lucky guy. In 100 days, he got malaria, muscle parasites that lasted about a year, the flu, and now he's fighting gut worms. He made new friends, but they didn't fare much better. Plague, gut worms and fibrous mechanites. None of them knew how to plant healroot. They managed by importing medecine from nearby settlements.
Early on, the colony almost got wiped out. A hunter triggered a whole herd of elephant manhunters. The hunter died, and my colonist got stomped trying to save him. He miraculously recovered before bleeding out and managed to patch himself. Still lost a toe in the process. Lesson learned: be more careful with elephants.
A toxic fallout also proved more difficult than expected. It turns out that poisoned animals are not edible. Fortunately, there were enough surviving berries to get by, and nearby settlements also had food. Had the fallout lasted longer, things might have turned ugly.
My colonist thought that traps would make a good defense. The universe disagreed. He lost an ear to his own trap. Then, a manhunter horde wiped out the traps used by the colony. A war council was convened.
It was established that the colony was now defenseless. The amount of work needed to replace the traps was subject to much debate. Everyone agreed that stone and steel were much too expensive to spend on traps. But, wooden traps could be viable given that wood is cheap in a jungle. Ultimately, the prevailing conclusion was that traps weren't very practical anymore. It was no longer possible to lay out a bunch of traps to secure a large perimeter; manhunters would destroy them before they could be hauled. Plus, it was a chore to constantly rebuild them, and not resource-effective in terms of wood and time. Moreover, they kill instead of knocking out, making recruitment more difficult.
The final decision was to rush turret research and only use wooden traps as a stop-gap solution.
Traps are more expensive and less afforfable, a bit more powerfull but i still prefer to rearm them imo.
Infestations are still OP.. 5 hives spawning around 30 insects on tribe start is gamekilling.. plus infections for everyone of course; gut worms and mental breaks.
Didn't survive long enough to try turrets (Phoebe survival struggle)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Here is the graph ( file is too big ...? )
[attachment deleted due to age]
New build went up a few hours ago. Mostly fixes here.
Note the friendly fire bug has been fixed.
---
Added a "(angers faction)" string to the "Capture" FloatMenu option if it's a member of a non-hostile faction. We now also send a message when that happens.
Crashing drop pods no longer explode.
Fix: Arrested wild men wander out of their prison cell.
Fix: Traps back compatibility errors.
Animals now instantly go to newly assigned animal areas when player assigns them.
Animals' "follow master" setting is now off by default.
Fix: History recorders errors after abandoning the last colony.
We now remove incorrectly loaded history auto recorders after loading.
Fix: CompressUtility streams not disposed properly.
Friendly fire chance, when the shot lands in the cell with the ally, is now scaled by distance from the shooter just like intercept chance.
Cleaned up the reservation system.
Quote from: Tynan on July 24, 2018, 12:57:47 AM
Animals now instantly go to newly assigned animal areas when player assigns them.
Thank you very much.
I believe that I'm experiencing the same "target ground" bug that others have mentioned earlier in today's build.
My grenadier would be given the order, and the game would pause, but no grenade would be thrown.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 24, 2018, 01:52:28 AM
I believe that I'm experiencing the same "target ground" bug that others have mentioned earlier in today's build.
My grenadier would be given the order, and the game would pause, but no grenade would be thrown.
Yep, this is next on the fix list. Simple bug, NBD.
guys, is there any 'native' bug in 1.0.1973? i went through the bug thread but seems like most of the bugs in 1.0 for each of the 19xx 're compability ones
i got a bit tired of all the bugs caused by changes so gonna stay in 1973 for a whole run before catching up to any of the new 19xx in the future
Wow, Tynan. The pace of updates, tweaks and evil bugs being squished is astounding.
Will there be a point where the pace of updating slows?
I start over a lot atm :).
I hope when it comes to the refining stage with my little project I can be as industrious.
Love Rimworld, 909 hours logged so far!
New game, played on Large Hills rather than mountains, temperate forest, to see if traps were still an option when you can't just close off one entrance.
Mostly it can still work, but I have found that I'm back to using stone rather than steel a lot of the time because of the cost. You still can't guarantee to one-shot an enemy with a trap, so you could be spending 120 steel to take down one pawn.
Could I suggest that maybe a mid point could be for traps to only have a fixed number of uses before needing to be reloaded, like the turret barrel thing?
EG, traps cost 50 stuff, you get 4 triggers, then you have to spend 30 to repair the busted mechanism?
As far as turrets go, haven't built any mini turrets yet. I've got the research for the autocannons and the sniper turrets but have only just managed to get enough plasteel for the multi-analyser. Still trying to work out where to put them, especially the sniper turret. The thing is, the enemy's tactic is normally "swarm the fuck out of you with a massive mob." Sniping is sort of the wrong counter to that, you want something that's more aoe and rapid fire, a kind of flak cannon, cluster bomb style thing to soften people up before they hit your colonists. One kill shots is fine but it's going to leave 15 or 20 people left standing and then by the time it's reloaded they've reached you and are attacking the turret. At least mini turrets are cheapish so if they explode you don't feel like you wasted vast amounts of resources.
Hah. About to update my mod for tweaking raid sizes with the main extended goal being
A)Having the cap influenced by difficulty
B)Using 4000 instead of 5000 as base Rough cap
And in the latest patches you
A) Did just that
B) Used that exact value ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
I'm suddenly a little paranoid lol. Well now's a good time to get back to playing instead of modding ::)
A couple of small bugs I noticed, nothing major.
A wild man died (wandered into traps and I finished them off) and one of my pawns got the "friend died" debuff despite having no social history. it was the pawn that beat them to death if that matters.
Watermill gen has some incorrect grammar in the description.
Toxic fallout/Cassandra rough: My tribe just got wiped out by starvation due to a toxic fallout. I got to the 10th day of the fallout (only because wild berry bushes don't seem to suffer from the fallout) and was trying to rush electricity to get a greenhouse going, but alas, I failed.
I had 2 researcher whose only other task was tending the rice, cotton and small healroot farm I had, so most days they were full time researching.
Edit: I had beds, clothing and machining researched and was starting on plate armor when the fallout started. I switched to electricity.
My next tribe will research beds first, because those give a decent mood boost and better rested pawns (question, do wounded pawns heal faster in a bed? I think so, but am not sure), and electricity afterwards, leaving clothing and smithing for a later date. I'll just have to walk around in tribal gear for a bit longer and make due with the weapons the raiders bring me.
Most maps have boomalopes which are pretty easy to train (please make those 0% agressive on taming fail :) ), so after getting my initial farms up, I'll tame 1 or 2 to prepare for my first chemfuel generators.
Seems to me a tribe on rough is a gamble. Either you rush for plate armor to be able to have better chances against a possible mechanoid fight (which wiped out my previous tribe 1 shotting most of my pawns), or rush electricity for the eventual toxic fallout, because a greenhouse is a must have for that event. I might be wrong and just suck as a player though...
Wish me luck
Cheers :)
Debug History Graphs:
Naked Brutality
Cassandra/Rough/Temperate Forest (Year-Round Growing) - ~160 days completed
Version 1974
I got some weird error on the Debug Graph:
(https://i.imgur.com/C7cCEsu.jpg)
There are hauling boars, they're called "pigs"!
Quote from: Tynan on July 24, 2018, 06:29:40 AM
There are hauling boars, they're called "pigs"!
Not buying it unless you give them miniguns.
Quick question: What is the errorOnFailed field for in the JobDriver function TryMakePreToilReservations? Was recently added.
Play report:
Crashlanded, randy medium, temperate forest with a huge river.
Tried the strategy of staying fairly poor, and keeping number of colonists down. Started with 1 "useless" pawn (no skilled or unskilled labour, but a decent shot) and 1 incapable of violence. Strategy worked well at the start, with raids being very reasonable in size. Tried building a few traps to start with (no kill-holes or corridors though), but dismantled them after almost getting my own pawns killed by my own traps. After that no traps or other static defences, apart from the river in the middle of the map. Did not recruit/rescue anyone, but 1 pawn wandered in and joined. After that the raids got way harder, optimal strategy would have been to kill it off asap. Eventually I lost a pawn and was back to three again, which made the raids reasonable again.
Focused on researching with plans to build the escape rocket, but abandoned that plan when I realized I was never going to get a reliable source of plasteel. Switched to making food for the journey to the AI. Ditched the no-violence guy as soon as I abandoned my base (100% liability as far as I understand, makes raids harder and can't fight). End party was the starting no skilled/unskilled labour guy and the wanderer that joined. Journey was uneventful, no hostile encounters. First 6 days or so of raids at the ship site went well. Then I got another wanderer... Long story short, raids became much harder sending me into a death spiral. Optimal strategy would probably have been to ditch all but 1 pawn for the final fight, as once I was down to 1 pawn I seemed to be mostly getting 1 person raids.
Edit:
(I should mention that I wanted to try this strategy after a couple of failed games where I recruited basically all decent pawns that showed up, this went much much better).
Hi Tynnan,
Awesome update and keep up the good work :)
Day 400 of my playthough. I use lots of deadfall traps but with the new update its meant they all have 0HP, can't be deconstructed and wont trigger. Thoughts?
Stu
What does "adaptation" and "pop intent" and "fun points" actually *mean*?
If I have a low "pop intent" does that mean the game thinks I have too many pawns and is going to try to kill them off?
I'm looking at these graphs but I'm not sure I know how to read them because I'm not sure what they're really measuring.
Well they're debug graphs, so you're not supposed to know 8)
Pop intent means the game will throw less free pawn events at you it's low, adaptation multiplies your raids when you're doing well.
And fun points means more !!!Fun!!!
Quote from: ChJees on July 24, 2018, 06:45:24 AM
Quick question: What is the errorOnFailed field for in the JobDriver function TryMakePreToilReservations? Was recently added.
It's there to break almost any mod ^^.
Now being serious, it seems to be so it can be passed to Reserve calls, so you can control whether errors should be thrown when reservations fail.
Edit: It seems to be there to prevent errors when queued jobs are assigned. At the time the queued job is assigned, the thing can be reserved without problem, but while being in the queue, someone else can reserve the thing, resulting in the error when the pawn starts the queued job. Some of my mods threw errors sometimes because of this, so I'm glad it's added.
Quote from: ChJees on July 24, 2018, 06:45:24 AM
Quick question: What is the errorOnFailed field for in the JobDriver function TryMakePreToilReservations? Was recently added.
I realize it breaks some mods, but unfortunately the only alternatives were to either use some kind of a global state or completely remove the "Could not reserve" errors which are sometimes useful. It's just that reservations for jobs which were queued are allowed to fail (because many things can happen before the job is actually started), so we don't want to show the "Could not reserve" errors in this case.
Quote from: ison on July 24, 2018, 07:28:28 AM
Quote from: ChJees on July 24, 2018, 06:45:24 AM
Quick question: What is the errorOnFailed field for in the JobDriver function TryMakePreToilReservations? Was recently added.
I realize it breaks some mods, but unfortunately the only alternatives were to either use some kind of a global state or completely remove the "Could not reserve" errors which are sometimes useful. It's just that reservations for jobs which were queued are allowed to fail (because many things can happen before the job is actually started), so we don't want to show the "Could not reserve" errors in this case.
Function overloading would also have done the trick. But I can imagine you don't want two function definitions just to prevent mods from breaking.
I am quite unhappy with the new traps right now.
With the new forced distance, my kill-korridor was removed, which was kind of cool, as I didn't plaster them all over my defence perimeter in a chessboard pattern. Good thing!
With the new one-usage trap I really doesn't get friends, as it totally doesn't fit my needs on a trap.
Old trap was used to support my early defense, meaning I used my first 500 stone for some chokepoints to soften raids, bringing every enemy with a inital head wound to the fight, what helped me a lot.
This was okay, as in early when I dont have much ressources, it was a defense with no costs.
Now as traps have their own "upkeep", I noticed me avoiding them totally as at the start the stones are hardly needed somewhere else.
Anyway, both traps have their benefit. I had some very funny moments with traps and plant pots.
I just wish to have both, as I want to use the rearmable trap to soften enemies, while the one-use traps can be used to kill strategic targets.
I find myself wincing now whenever a squirrel or rabbit hits a trap. 2 turns at the deep driller and another 2 at the stone cutter wasted. Again.
In my current colony there is one mad animal event every 7.5 days, and one drop pod event every 7.5 days (over 53 days). I think both of these are too common.
Please add a brief forced slowdown to entering sites. I got a nasty surprise from manhunting bears.
Please remove the forced slowdown on attacking poison ships etc. It is agonisingly slow to watch them attack it when the threat is already defeated.
I think hyperweave might be bugged; traders only ever carry up to a few of them, which isn't enough to actually make anything.
This is my second playthrough on 1.0, I think entirely on the 1972 patch.
Randy Random
Rough
Arid Shrubland (Year Round Growing)
Crashlanded
I have to say right off the bat that I've been having a lot of fun on these 1.0 games. The game really feels subtly whole and polished in ways I didn't expect. I had been finding Rough to be rougher this patch so I played my last game on Medium. But Medium was pretty slow for my play style, and when I saw that Medium got nerfed (buffed?) I decided to go back to my tested and true Rough.
This game started off rough (appropriately) when I lost a colonist to a hunting cougar on day 2 that couldn't be avoided. This bad start had me worried, but I was given a good chance to recover and thrive. There were lots of opportunities to recruit new colonists which were varied and at a good pace. Raid strength and frequency seemed balanced too as well as varied.
Caravanning:
- Caravanning opportunities I think still started coming earlier than I'd expect any player to really be ready to take the risk to do it, but less ridiculously early than before.
- The frequency and variety of caravanning offers were really good though, as well as the requests are actually things my colony is capable of producing
- Still wish there was some indicator on the World Map for which colonies have made offers already so I didn't have to click around looking for the right one.
Combat:
- I love that Melee is not only viable but necessary now. However, it still doesn't feel balanced (not sure if that's the right word, but didn't want to say "It just doesn't feel right.") For example, I've had multiple armed Melee fighters go down by the hands (literally) of an enemy - not sure if that's based on skill or weapon quality but it happens frequently enough to make me feel like something's off. Then flip it around and it seems like ranged weapon colonists are almost completely defenceless when in melee range, which can be catastrophic in a fight or when hunting alone. It tempts me to go back to recruiting the whole colony to go shoot a bunch of animals at once instead of properly using the hunting as it's meant to be used. I'm sure you don't want to incorporate the sidearm mod into the game or else you would've done it by now, but I feel more tempted than ever to try it out. Alternatively maybe you could make the butt end of ranged weapons a somewhat viable melee option? at least enough to defend unless your longswordsmand gets to the scene?
- I liked the new trap nerf by making us spread them out. Not sure I'm going to like them disappearing on use but we'll see shortly. I didn't get to turret research in my game to be able to assess it.
QoL:
- It's annoying that in the Orders Menu there's no hotkey for Chop Wood, and that when you select a tree that the hotkey is Y, but in the Orders Menu Y is Cut Plants.
- would be nice if when you select a piece of granite mountain the option for Smooth Surface showed up alongside the option for Mining
Other:
- the fact that a number of crafting jobs don't build crafting skill is counterintuitive and I feel would be confusing to new players. I still have to doublecheck and remind myself what does and does build the skill. Perhaps separating the names of the skill and the work order would make it less so, and maybe a tooltip in the Story tab for each skill to help you out. Or just let us build crafting more easily again (in a way that can't be exploited).
- Commitment Mode vs. Reload Anytime Mode is just a bit ridiculous. Permadeath has an established definition in gaming and people should just accept that that's what this game is designed to do. I was all for the idea of turning it on by default and maybe having a tooltip or explainer underneath it, but the two options with those names, both unselected just seems like overkill. You've already sold over a million games - you don't need to hold people's hands!
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Mehni on July 24, 2018, 09:16:04 AM
Please add a brief forced slowdown to entering sites. I got a nasty surprise from manhunting bears.
Please remove the forced slowdown on attacking poison ships etc. It is agonisingly slow to watch them attack it when the threat is already defeated.
I also think the time after a forced slowdown until you can speed up is mostly too long. Maybe add a [shift]+[3] hotkey for forced speed-up that one can use when he wants to overwrite the slowdown. (But it should still slowdown again normally of cause when the next stuff happens).
I noticed that the text describing happy transhumanists in Needs is always one behind. ie Happy to have 3 bionic parts when in fact there are 4
Forgot to add that I'm loving the new recruiting system! Makes sense, works well. The only thing was that the first prisoner I had in my game had a 93% difficulty and was recruited in the first attempt (after resistance was reduced to 0.0). Warden's social I don't remember, but it was definitely not higher than 10. Did I just get lucky?
Cassandra extreme, boreal 20/60, -> ship building:
* economy was mostly based on apparel crafting (lots of leather from manhunter packs and wildlife), i also had an artist full time mid game.
* I would say in terms of difficulty it was early game > ship sequence > mid game. The ship sequence is still very intense, but no longer hardcore like in previous versions, it has a good pace and the individual threats are more manageable. Early game is still the "make it or die" period of the game. After a critical mass of colonists is reached, it is harder to be wiped out, and it mostly depends on your strategy. Using choke points is still the safest defense, but with the down scaling of threat, i may try a more open defense for the next run.
* i'd like to have the option to ask for prisoners camps where your captured colonists would be, or to directly negotiate a ransom with the enemy
* resurrection mech serum is too rng, i got 3+4 at the end of the run (year 6)
* doctoring still requires micro if you don't want bad surprises. I'd like to see colonists with bleeding wounds going to bed for 'patient' even if the bleeding is not life threatening (yet...)
(https://i.imgur.com/JgjI8Td.png)
Hi all, new player here...
I picked this game up last month, because i thought i was ready for it. Been playing 7days and games like that...
A18 is really cool! Im having so much fun. The AI is a little dumb, but atleast its very unpredictable...
Ive now been playing 1.0 exp for awhile, and is it just me, or does the game feel much much worse now?
Its hard to give precise points, because its all over the game... Gameplay, graphics, AI, difficulty scaling, you name it! It all sucks now...
Maybe im just to new to this game, but Im really really really crossing my fingers, that 1.0 will be much different than 1.0 exp... It usually is not, so hence my worrie...
Quote from: alxddd on July 24, 2018, 09:56:55 AM
- Caravanning opportunities I think still started coming earlier than I'd expect any player to really be ready to take the risk to do it, but less ridiculously early than before.
Not
that early for me. I got several ones I could do with one or two people:
* deliver a dozen t-shirts
* deliver a dozen knives
* defeat two people and a turret (took some more people for that)
* a peace conference
All within about two days walking distance
Quote from: Menace312 on July 24, 2018, 10:12:46 AM
Hi all, new player here...
I picked this game up last month, because i thought i was ready for it. Been playing 7days and games like that...
A18 is really cool! Im having so much fun. The AI is a little dumb, but atleast its very unpredictable...
Ive now been playing 1.0 exp for awhile, and is it just me, or does the game feel much much worse now?
Its hard to give precise points, because its all over the game... Gameplay, graphics, AI, difficulty scaling, you name it! It all sucks now...
Maybe im just to new to this game, but Im really really really crossing my fingers, that 1.0 will be much different than 1.0 exp... It usually is not, so hence my worrie...
Would you be so kind as to include experience-related examples, without abstract blanket-statements? Prove your point. I for one love 1.0 as a person with 2300+ hours, since A14 and up. ;)
Quote from: Menace312 on July 24, 2018, 10:12:46 AM
Its hard to give precise points, because its all over the game... Gameplay, graphics, AI, difficulty scaling, you name it! It all sucks now...
At least the graphics didn't change that much. Maybe you renamed 7d2d into rimworld.exe and didn't notice?
Try to make an example what's bothering you, or at least a screenshot of a very emotional game session.
I think there are many things that are unpolished or new. But there is no thing which called to be 'bad'.
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 24, 2018, 10:20:14 AM
Quote from: Menace312 on July 24, 2018, 10:12:46 AM
Hi all, new player here...
I picked this game up last month, because i thought i was ready for it. Been playing 7days and games like that...
A18 is really cool! Im having so much fun. The AI is a little dumb, but atleast its very unpredictable...
Ive now been playing 1.0 exp for awhile, and is it just me, or does the game feel much much worse now?
Its hard to give precise points, because its all over the game... Gameplay, graphics, AI, difficulty scaling, you name it! It all sucks now...
Maybe im just to new to this game, but Im really really really crossing my fingers, that 1.0 will be much different than 1.0 exp... It usually is not, so hence my worrie...
Would you be so kind as to include experience-related examples, without abstract blanket-statements? Prove your point. I for one love 1.0 as a person with 2300+ hours, since A14 and up. ;)
Agreed. I'm at the 2000+ hour mark as well. I would always play each update for a few weeks before getting tired for one reason or another. I can't seem to stop playing with the new 1.0 update. So many little annoyances were cleared up and it's the first time I'm not scrambling for mods to fill in "gaps" in my gameplay. There is always room for improvement but 1.0 is definitely a move in the right direction
While i also think B18 was way more fun to play and 1.0 currently doesn't match my preferences, I kind of agree with others - if you want to tell that this version sucks - you really wanna make it a huge post describing in detail what you didn't like and why, even if its "spread all over the game". Otherwise it won't have any weight or convincing power.
Very limited thoughts on traps because I've hit a dry spell of raids and had nothing but manhunter packs, manhunter singles, and mass manhunter madness (FUCKIN' EMUS, MAN). And those thoughts are this: while they are certainly effective, it sucks to lose 40 steel to a FUCKIN' EMU that your pawns could have easily shot to death for free. I just got deep drilling so it won't be difficult to replace at this point in my base's life, but any earlier than that and I would not have wanted to spend 40 hard-won steel, wood, or stone from this flat, arid map on a single-use emu guillotine. This change really makes traps viable only for rich bases or on resource-plentiful maps.
On a completely different topic, cocoa is... kind of underwhelming? The idea is cute, especially the "self-sweetening" that makes it drop off the tree as a fully formed chocolate bar. ;D But you spend 1000 research points, hours and hours of tree planting (even after the reduction to tree planting time it's still a big investment), months of waiting and hoping the tree doesn't get destroyed by toxic fallout or an unlucky lightning strike, and then you get... 16 chocolate worth $3 each and the tree disappears. Yuck. Why bother? Chocolate is neither profitable enough nor valuable enough as a joy item to justify the hassle.
Quote from: alxddd on July 24, 2018, 09:56:55 AM
Combat:
- I love that Melee is not only viable but necessary now. However, it still doesn't feel balanced (not sure if that's the right word, but didn't want to say "It just doesn't feel right.") For example, I've had multiple armed Melee fighters go down by the hands (literally) of an enemy - not sure if that's based on skill or weapon quality but it happens frequently enough to make me feel like something's off. Then flip it around and it seems like ranged weapon colonists are almost completely defenceless when in melee range, which can be catastrophic in a fight or when hunting alone. It tempts me to go back to recruiting the whole colony to go shoot a bunch of animals at once instead of properly using the hunting as it's meant to be used. I'm sure you don't want to incorporate the sidearm mod into the game or else you would've done it by now, but I feel more tempted than ever to try it out. Alternatively maybe you could make the butt end of ranged weapons a somewhat viable melee option? at least enough to defend unless your longswordsmand gets to the scene?
Has it been discussed before why someone with a ranged weapon can't have a knife in their belt as well?
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 24, 2018, 11:44:01 AM
Yikes, I never got into crafting chocolate, but after all that the tree also goes away?? Wow, talk about underwhelming.
The tree is very tired after adding the sweetener to the cocoa. :P
Quote from: mcduff on July 24, 2018, 05:15:29 AM
New game, played on Large Hills rather than mountains, temperate forest, to see if traps were still an option when you can't just close off one entrance.
Mostly it can still work, but I have found that I'm back to using stone rather than steel a lot of the time because of the cost. You still can't guarantee to one-shot an enemy with a trap, so you could be spending 120 steel to take down one pawn.
Could I suggest that maybe a mid point could be for traps to only have a fixed number of uses before needing to be reloaded, like the turret barrel thing?
EG, traps cost 50 stuff, you get 4 triggers, then you have to spend 30 to repair the busted mechanism?
Agree with the solution suggested above. I'm playing on randy extreme naked brutality tribal start on temperate forest small hills. On this current game, year 3, I haven't made it to the 'killbox style' base and I'm not sure how they interact with turrets, (no electricity yet) but I do use a significant number of traps at natural choke points to soften the enemy before they reach my base. (Or at choke points in my base if they get in). The 'resource cost' feels odious, especially in the randy world of back-to-back raids. If I don't have extra steel or stone lying around, I can't quickly recover and prioritize my haulers to reset traps. I need a miner, or a crafter, or a wood chopper, AND a constructor to replenish an effective raid defense.
On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.
Quote from: fecalfrown on July 24, 2018, 12:33:20 PM
On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.
He doesn't. He's random. So he also doesn't care if you have too many!
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 24, 2018, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: Toast on July 24, 2018, 11:40:54 AMOn a completely different topic, cocoa is... kind of underwhelming? The idea is cute, especially the "self-sweetening" that makes it drop off the tree as a fully formed chocolate bar. ;D But you spend 1000 research points, hours and hours of tree planting (even after the reduction to tree planting time it's still a big investment), months of waiting and hoping the tree doesn't get destroyed by toxic fallout or an unlucky lightning strike, and then you get... 16 chocolate worth $3 each and the tree disappears. Yuck. Why bother? Chocolate is neither profitable enough nor valuable enough as a joy item to justify the hassle.
Yikes, I never got into crafting chocolate, but after all that the tree also goes away?? Wow, talk about underwhelming.
The tree should absolutely not disappear after all of that time and work. I thought it was underwhelming even if the tree stayed to reproduce every so often.
Quote from: mcduff on July 24, 2018, 11:54:11 AM
Quote from: alxddd on July 24, 2018, 09:56:55 AM
Combat:
- I love that Melee is not only viable but necessary now. However, it still doesn't feel balanced (not sure if that's the right word, but didn't want to say "It just doesn't feel right.") For example, I've had multiple armed Melee fighters go down by the hands (literally) of an enemy - not sure if that's based on skill or weapon quality but it happens frequently enough to make me feel like something's off. Then flip it around and it seems like ranged weapon colonists are almost completely defenceless when in melee range, which can be catastrophic in a fight or when hunting alone. It tempts me to go back to recruiting the whole colony to go shoot a bunch of animals at once instead of properly using the hunting as it's meant to be used. I'm sure you don't want to incorporate the sidearm mod into the game or else you would've done it by now, but I feel more tempted than ever to try it out. Alternatively maybe you could make the butt end of ranged weapons a somewhat viable melee option? at least enough to defend unless your longswordsmand gets to the scene?
Has it been discussed before why someone with a ranged weapon can't have a knife in their belt as well?
not that I know of, but I know sidearms is a well known mod so I assume that if they were going to add the feature in they would've done it in this build.
Also just wanted to add that I thought the Tree and Wood balance was really good in the Arid Shrubland. It was a challenge and forced me to prioritize stonecutting early, but not so bad that I felt unfairly hampered in the early game.
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 24, 2018, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: fecalfrown on July 24, 2018, 12:33:20 PM
On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.
He doesn't. He's random. So he also doesn't care if you have too many!
I think this is untrue though: My point is that even with Randy as the story teller, the new 'adaptation system' (look at the graph in the debug menu) nudges you to get more than one colonist.
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 24, 2018, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: fecalfrown on July 24, 2018, 12:33:20 PM
On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.
He doesn't. He's random. So he also doesn't care if you have too many!
True. I can remember pre 1.0 randy plays where I was trying to load 20 colonists on my ship and getting chased refugee. Lol
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 24, 2018, 12:35:37 PM
Quote from: fecalfrown on July 24, 2018, 12:33:20 PM
On another note: Not really a fan of early game storyteller Randy on naked brutality. The first quadrum of the game gave me 3 escape pod events and 2 'wanderer joins' events. Like WTF? I thought Randy didn't care how many colonists I had, and now he's decidedly trying to push me above 1, rather than let me do it myself.
He doesn't. He's random. So he also doesn't care if you have too many!
edit2: Damn, deleted my post when it was right after all..
(I hope Tynan doesn't mind us sharing def/ilspy generated code snippets? I'm happy to delete the post if it's not considered the done thing around here)
Let's break this down, we have a definition of wandererJoin:
<IncidentDef>
<defName>WandererJoin</defName>
<label>wanderer join</label>
<category>Misc</category>
<targetTags>
<li>Map_PlayerHome</li>
</targetTags>
<workerClass>IncidentWorker_WandererJoin</workerClass>
<baseChance>0.4</baseChance>
<populationEffect>IncreaseEasy</populationEffect>
</IncidentDef>
Let's go through the chacne code:
protected float IncidentChanceFinal(IncidentDef def)
{
float num = def.Worker.AdjustedChance;
num *= this.IncidentChanceFactor_CurrentPopulation(def);
num *= this.IncidentChanceFactor_PopulationIntent(def);
return Mathf.Max(0f, num);
}
The "AdjustedChance" is actually just the def baseChance in the case of WandererJoins. (The "incidentWorker" can adjust it, but the IncidentWorker_WandererJoin does not.
The IncidentChanceFactor_CurrentPopulation does the following:
// RimWorld.StorytellerComp
protected float IncidentChanceFactor_CurrentPopulation(IncidentDef def)
{
float result;
if (def.chanceFactorByPopulationCurve == null)
{
result = 1f;
}
else
{
int num = PawnsFinder.AllMapsCaravansAndTravelingTransportPods_Alive_Colonists.Count<Pawn>();
result = def.chanceFactorByPopulationCurve.Evaluate((float)num);
}
return result;
}
In this case, "chanceFactorByPopulationCurve" is not in our def, so this is just 1. I think this may be a curve which is used when determining negative rather than positive events.
More interestingly, we then multiply by "IncidentChanceFactor_PopulationIntent" and this is where Randy comes into play.
float result;
if (def.populationEffect == IncidentPopulationEffect.None)
{
result = 1f;
}
else
{
float num;
switch (def.populationEffect)
{
case IncidentPopulationEffect.IncreaseHard:
num = 0.4f;
break;
case IncidentPopulationEffect.IncreaseMedium:
num = 0f;
break;
case IncidentPopulationEffect.IncreaseEasy:
num = -0.4f;
break;
default:
throw new Exception();
}
float a = StorytellerUtilityPopulation.PopulationIntent + num;
result = Mathf.Max(a, this.props.minIncChancePopulationIntentFactor);
}
return result;
We have "IncidentPopulationEffect.IncreaseEasy" in our def, so we start with -0.4, however we then add our "PopuationIntent" from our storyteller. This is actually based on a calculation which starts with a standard population curve which is the same for all story tellers. This starts out very high if you have no players, but falls off slowly after that.
It's then multiplied by a population adaptation number, however I believe there is a "grace period" where population adaptaion doesn't apply, so early on that won't have an impact.
It's important to note that Randy shares that base.
What is returned from this number then combined with a
minIncChancePopulationIntentFactor and the higher number taken.
For Cass and Phoebe, this minimum chance is 0.05.
For Randy, this minimum chance is 0.2.
So long term Randy is going to have a constant stream after new colonists for Cass and Phoebe have dried up.
Short term however, all story-tellers will get you to 3-4 population, with only 1 person you are all but guarenteed to get a person in the first day or two, and with randy having no 'off switch' to his functioning you can find yourself quickly homing a lot of new pawns.
So now releasing prisoners has less effect on good will.
So to be clear, Tynan, you do not want us to be able to achieve peace with an enemy by releasing their members we capture?
Because of the infrequency of raids for a given faction and the high rate of death on downed, we were already getting too few prisoners to release to offset the seasonal goodwill decay. Now it's even worse.
I'm not sure what the point is.
Could you please give us an estimate of when maybe 1.0 will be released. I've tried to play the game with the constant updates, but I end up spending 1-2 hours everyday before playing updating mods, figuring out what mods are broken, what mods are breaking the game, etc. I get to play for an hour, sometimes 3 if I have the time, then have to do it all over again the next day. Would rather just wait at this point.
While small things are being changed, can shelves have nothing set by default? Also maybe add 1x1 shelves as well?
And let dressers store stuff, like clothing. Crazy idea i know.
Just rolled up some crashlanders and noticed that pawns who have Animal Handling Disabled in their backstory are still getting awarded Animals skill & passion.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618220842639990/63097CFA5F86B36860A72CD713AACE872B3C0622/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618220842634860/7666930E2EB0738D15BDBE9B787DD2C15A7DCF87/
Quote from: AFGHANPSYCHO on July 24, 2018, 02:04:51 PM
Could you please give us an estimate of when maybe 1.0 will be released. I've tried to play the game with the constant updates, but I end up spending 1-2 hours everyday before playing updating mods, figuring out what mods are broken, what mods are breaking the game, etc. I get to play for an hour, sometimes 3 if I have the time, then have to do it all over again the next day. Would rather just wait at this point.
Here's a thought how about either not using mods or go and play B18 which isn't getting changed daily or tell Rimworld not to patch in Steam. You opted in to test the 1.0 unstable you aren't forced to play it.
I think adding resource costs to traps and turrets so they don't just take care of all the raids for you with minimal input was probably a good thing in the long run. I've still been using both in my playthroughs, and they do work, it's just harder to maintain. The problem is that defending your base with pawns doesn't work. Armor isn't reliable and body parts are lost too quickly to keep up. It's just suicidal. So it doesn't matter how much traps and turrets get nerfed, because turrets and traps still work and fighting with your pawns does not.
I don't know exactly what the solution is, it may be a mix of things. Overhauling armor to be more consistent, making body part loss less common, making it easier to restore body parts, maybe all of the above. As it currently stands though putting your pawns in a shootout before you have power armor and biotics is just almost always the wrong choice. Unless it's the only choice, which usually signals that you've lost.
I really would prefer to be able to defend using mostly pawns, but I've never gotten that to work on extreme.
Just wanted to share my colony at day 193.
Crashlanded. Cassandra rough, 40/60 harvest, temp forest.
I don't think it's right that I got a mech raid, then 1 hour later I got a siege. Save that stuff for randy extreme.
9 ranged scythers from 2 groups attacked my west wall. Colonists killed the closer group of 4 and then left through the east gate to attack the siege group. The remaining scythers killed 5 miniturrets and slowly made their way to the north of the wall where 2 sniper turrets ended them. I like sniper turrets. If not for a meteorite of uranium I would not have them, as not a single trader so far held any uranium. This took the scythers quite a long time. Perhaps they act too cautiously, they stayed as far back as possible... Maybe raids and mechs could use different all out strategies. Mechs never retreat so why would they act cautiously?
Like most sieges you can catch them off guard somehow when they are setting up or moving and they accept the weather condition of "raining bullets". I personally feel that should not happen at all. This did not happen here. they landed right on top of a poison ship part that I don't care about killing, and set up 2 mortars and sandbags while I was defending the west wall. by the time i got over to them they had fired an incendiary into my devilstrand field. I've had the research for 2 years. 0 harvested. The angry crows as they called themselves didn't outgun or outnumber us. 13 colonists with snipers and bolt action rifles clumped together in an open field attempting to hit the ship part behind them to gain an edge. The angry crows are amazing bullet magnets. After 3 of them went down they abandoned the siege to attack us. 13 wild boars were released and the raiders were dealt with. I sent the crew to the hospital and they had been drafted for so long 2 of them had mental breaks. Luckily those 2 weren't bleeding. I sent the non injured non doctor colonists to finish off the other 4 lancers that were still at the west wall. Naturally by the time they got there the sniper turrets had done it for me.
have some graphs.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=18I2RU8EKofFn_rP4uLpkUoyZAWLL-SP2
[/quote]
So long term Randy is going to have a constant stream after new colonists for Cass and Phoebe have dried up.
Short term however, all story-tellers will get you to 3-4 population, with only 1 person you are all but guarenteed to get a person in the first day or two, and with randy having no 'off switch' to his functioning you can find yourself quickly homing a lot of new pawns.
[/quote]
Eterm,
I edited your quote to just highlight the point I was trying to make earlier which is that Randy tries so hard to get you above the 3-4 colonist limit (and its not something I like).
I think maybe this would have been OK before Naked Brutality. I used to play exclusively Randy Tribal before Naked Brutality was a thing, and when you start with 5 colonists you rarely get the escape pod/wanderer events. However, to be truly Brutal Randy should be tweaked to not so easily push your colonist count up so early on. Maybe I'm in the minority.
Thanks for digging into the code though, that confirmed my suspicions.
Quote from: Broken Reality on July 24, 2018, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: AFGHANPSYCHO on July 24, 2018, 02:04:51 PM
Could you please give us an estimate of when maybe 1.0 will be released. I've tried to play the game with the constant updates, but I end up spending 1-2 hours everyday before playing updating mods, figuring out what mods are broken, what mods are breaking the game, etc. I get to play for an hour, sometimes 3 if I have the time, then have to do it all over again the next day. Would rather just wait at this point.
Here's a thought how about either not using mods or go and play B18 which isn't getting changed daily or tell Rimworld not to patch in Steam. You opted in to test the 1.0 unstable you aren't forced to play it.
No need to be a douche. Was simply asking for a possible ETA.
Debug History Graphs from Last Night (Legit Version):
Naked Brutality
Cassandra/Rough/Temperate Forest (Year-Round Growing) - ~160 days completed
Version 1974
Gameplay Observations:
-Plenty of action last night: Simultaneous Toxic Fallout + Heatwave + Traders + Hostile, Non-Pirate Faction Sapper Raid with a relationship to one of my colonists (Father). The Hostiles and Traders shot it out at the bottom of my base, with tons of casualties. I added to the carnage from a safe distance. After the fighting had ended, I rescued 4 friendlies, and captured 3 Hostile Faction members. The father of my colonist was killed, which leads me to my next point:
-I'd really like to see the names on the graves again.
-Two rescued Friendly Faction members came down with infections, and self-tended instead of letting my much more capable Doctors do it for them. I had a doctor standing by that waited until the very second that the infection could be treated: the "tend" option disappeared as soon as it could be treated, the Friendly stood up in the hospital bed and self-tended This led to one of them dying unnecessarily. Now that Friendlies will "rest until healed" in a player's hospital, maybe they should have self-tending disabled - but only when in a Hospital Bed (I really want them to keep self-tending overall, as it adds a great deal of depth to their characters...if given a choice, I'll put up with their suicidal infection self-tending)? Which leads to the next observation:
-Friendlies who die on the map are still counting against my Faction Relationships.
-The game's first Poison Ship landed, which gave me an opportunity to try the new Traps, or so I thought. 8 colonists vs. 1 Inferno Cannon Centipede, 3 Charge Lancers...all 8 colonist fighting from a prepared pillbox, in the rain. I deployed about 14-16 traps in front of the pillbox.
None of the Mechs triggered any traps, but the lone Inferno Cannon Centipede did manage to burn a few of them down, even in the rain. The traps were easy to build, and I'm glad I can uninstall them, but the event got me to thinking what material I'm going to use to deploy them, if any. The following isn't theory-crafting: it's my thought process.
Knowing that a trap will get destroyed after being triggered, it will be some time before I can even consider using any material other than Wood: I'm still transitioning out of Early game (I haven't even wired up my base for power yet), and Steel and finished Stone are both in short supply, and needed in other vital roles. That leaves Wood as the only viable alternative. I would invest in stone traps in B18 early on, but now, I'm hesitating because of the material loss, plus the fact that additional effort will have to be spent in re-building them. Using Steel is out of the question entirely. Balancing economics with security is going to be a significantly more intensive process. I expect that biomes where wood is in short supply already will take a real hit from this, especially in the early game.
Since I watched a few Wooden traps go up in flames in the rain, I considered that massing a bunch of traps anywhere inside my base will have the end result of turning the whole place into more of a tinderbox than it already is. I'm going to have to figure out a way to safely use them...if at all.
-I sent my first real caravan in 1.0. I have a ton of experience with B18 caravans, and like the new system very much: it's an improvement in almost every way.
One request though: is there a way to make the system separate the healthy animals from permanently injured animals? I have two Alpacas, and one of them has a damaged spine. In my caravan, I wanted only the healthy Alpaca to travel with me, but the Caravan Selection menu didn't break out any difference between the two animals, and it auto-selected the injured Alpaca. I caught the error in time before the Alpaca began to get loaded up with supplies (by selecting the healthy Alpaca to get added to the caravan, and then de-selecting the injured one), but it was kind of luck. If I had traveled with the unhealthy animal, it would have felt like a "gotcha" moment.
This is kind of a leftover from B18 that I was hoping would be addressed in 1.0: Caravan Menus often don't distinguish between perfectly healthy animals and permanently injured ones, and there's no way to tell what's going to get added to your caravan. You can *sort-of* tell the difference in Trading menus because of the difference in price (a healthy Muffalo will sell for more than a 3-legged Muffalo), but we're flying blind right now in Caravan menus.
-I still want my Hauling Boars back. Money talks...let's start talking price. I'll have the GoFundMe page up within 20 minutes, and the money will be deposited in the off-shore bank account of your choice within 48 hours. In the meantime, I'm giving my two boars-in-waiting the Alec Baldwin "Glengarry Glen Ross" speech about hauling: "ABH!!! Always be hauling! ALWAYS. BE. HAULING! You can't haul shit? You ARE shit! Hit the bricks, pal, because you are going OUT!". They at least put their coffee down. Coffee is for haulers.
Some graphs from last night:
(https://i.imgur.com/DCMLuFa.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/bww6ANb.png)
Can we have colonists not tend 100% tended things immediately? I know the 4 hour gap exists so that I don't have to babysit the hospital, but it's annoying having them waste medicine/do worse tending. Also would be nice if doctors didn't use medicine for bruises. If it has anything to do with healing speed maaaaaaaybe it's worth using them, but not until I have more medicine that herbal medicine which is usually not the case.
If anything we should have medicine selection for type of injury, not just type of pawn.
drop pods and their load order needs to get looked at: colonists who cannot haul jump inside and wait for the rest of the caravan to get ready, and starve themselves. items cannot be added or removed from the caravan/pods while it is loading. I'm not sure if they load 1 pod fully then start the next one, but they should. I don't use them myself, just watching streams they seem super clunky.
Quote from: cactusmeat on July 24, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
drop pods and their load order needs to get looked at: colonists who cannot haul jump inside and wait for the rest of the caravan to get ready, and starve themselves.
Hmm... in my experience in 1.0, not true. My one "incapable of hauling" pawn loads up the cargo pods with stuff before he gets in.
I have no idea why Cassandra thinks a colonist has died on this map where the crashlanders have literally just crashlanded:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618220843040811/A92ACCECC1C306EB98AEB322694AD4EC8BA2CE8B/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618220843041556/7840486FE6FDC66450204C523725F1F63E2E8024/
I'm getting a lot of my domestic animals accidentally hitting traps now. Way more than before. I've lost about 5 in 10 days, which is a bit irritating, especially since traps are so much further apart.
I've been playing 1.0 for a little while now, and I've noticed a few things that might need to change (prepare yourself, a super intense amount of reading ahead):
- I'm having a pretty serious issue this playthrough with food poisoning, in that food poisoning from "Dirty Cooking Area" is occurring far too often. I'm getting a case with that cause like at least once or twice a day, even though I have 2 colonists cleaning almost constantly (one's my warden, and I have no prisoners atm, and the other is a teenager who doesn't really know how to do much else) and I have the whole kitchen covered in sterile tiles. I find this quite annoying, because if one of my cooks gets food poisoning, it only perpetuates the problem via their vomit contaminating their food.
- Another issue I've had is the cooking of simple meals, even though I have fresh meat waiting to be butchered and lavish meals are top of the bills list. One way this could be fixed is by adding a conditional to the bill that allows for checking of unrelated item numbers (e.g. Cook simple meals up to 30 IF there are no fresh animal corpses in storage), and I think this is the easiest solution.
- I had placed some of the old deadfall traps from before their radius was tweaked. They don't work, (which is fine, it makes sense: they are too close together) but they also persist in my save as objects in the game with no way to deconstruct, reinstall, or uninstall. I also cant place any new deadfall traps around them. It really puts a hole in my defensive perimeter.
- Speaking of deadfall traps, I'm not a super big fan of having to reconstruct them every time they're used. I know I am used to just clicking "Auto-Rearm" and forgetting about them, but I also understand the balance of not being able to reset large traps capable of tearing mechs apart without the use of any resources. However, let me explain my setup and maybe you'll see where I'm coming from: I only use one or two builders ever. In fact, my save in 1.0 is the first to use more than one builder. In this way, my builders are incredibly skilled and the legwork of hauling the material to the blueprint is done by the less skilled oafs of the colony (kudos to you guys for creating a function similar to the "Hand me that Brick" mod, which is a mod that if I don't have, I just don't play the game). This means, though, that every time a deadfall trap is triggered, it diverts the attention of the builders away from their glorious and important work of constructing new defenses, repairing the walls, building bedrooms and such, and instead forces them to personally reset the traps so that my colony won't fall apart if a large raid shows up. I think it is perfectly reasonable for the traps to have a reset function but the resets cost a few steel each. In this way, the architects can get back to what's important, and the others can take care of the traps.
And here's some features I woodlove(.tumblr.com, pardon me if this is an actual valid url)
- Let me express my wish for a way to produce Neutroamine. It could be a plant that is extremely hard to grow and fairly slow, it could be a way to refine it from other sources, I would even suggest it is in the spacer area of the tech tree, but the reliance of better medicine on traders that show up at random and rarely have it is annoying at best
- I would also love to see a prisoner system redo, perhaps just a "Prisoner Area" that you put down that is only valid when entirely enclosed. Ideally, prisoners can be assigned beds, cells and barracks, and can have a separate hospital and dining room.
- A way to break down prisoner resistance without actually trying to recruit them would also be much appreciated
- Prisoner jobs such as crafting, cooking, and cleaning in the prisoner area would be pretty cool.
All in all though the changes in 1.0 seem to be pretty balanced and relatively bug free, awesome job to the devs! <3
I'm finding a components squeeze due to their increased cost from traders forcing a fabrication rush before the visible component ore is depleted. High tech bench 10 each. Multi analyser 8. Fab bench 12. So 30 total on top of the regular load for building structures / benches / gear. And each pocket of components might give 10-15 with perhaps only 5-6 visible pockets on the map. Then once you get past this point you usually start getting nonstop mech raids which smack you in the face with bags of ironic components. Some ways to fix are:
-cheaper components from traders
-more component deposits, possibly split into two types of ore, one easy and one hard to mine
-increase component recovery rate from smelting (steel rate can be the same)
-raiders carry components sometimes (not sure how this would be justified though)
The crafting exp is also sharply divided pre and post fabrication. Before component making, almost all gear takes very little work, and so gives almost no crafting exp. Afterwards, the crafters are constantly churning components and adv components, and always end up 15+.
Quote from: anotherrimworld on July 24, 2018, 10:05:24 AM
I noticed that the text describing happy transhumanists in Needs is always one behind. ie Happy to have 3 bionic parts when in fact there are 4
I also noticed that a normal pawn with 2 bionics didn't get a mood hit. I thought maybe they changed it but maybe it's got an off-by-one as well?
Quote from: Zombull on July 24, 2018, 02:01:02 PM
So now releasing prisoners has less effect on good will.
So to be clear, Tynan, you do not want us to be able to achieve peace with an enemy by releasing their members we capture?
Because of the infrequency of raids for a given faction and the high rate of death on downed, we were already getting too few prisoners to release to offset the seasonal goodwill decay. Now it's even worse.
I'm not sure what the point is.
Is it less now? I found the numbers all over the map but I thought it had to do with how much I healed them. One guy was seconds away from bleeding out who, after saving him, gave me 21 points. Next was 16 and most were around there
I just watched a colonist take off a good synthread button down shirt to equip a poor dog leather button down shirt, is the 0.7% better sharp protection really worth it?
Quote from: Tynan on July 24, 2018, 12:57:47 AM
Animals now instantly go to newly assigned animal areas when player assigns them.
Does this re-open the
Sacrificial Chicken exploit? If I order a single animal to a 1x1 area in the path of an incoming raid, will they all fire their rocket launchers at it? I guess I won't be buying as many Psychic Lances this game...
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on July 24, 2018, 07:35:29 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 24, 2018, 12:57:47 AM
Animals now instantly go to newly assigned animal areas when player assigns them.
Does this re-open the Sacrificial Chicken exploit? If I order a single animal to a 1x1 area in the path of an incoming raid, will they all fire their rocket launchers at it? I guess I won't be buying as many Psychic Lances this game...
This has always been a strategy with or without instant assigned area response.
And the fix for sacrificial chickens would be for the AI to have some threat detection, preferring to hit turrets or colonists with rockets.
Cassandra Rough, Tribal, about 1.5 years, Temperate Forest
The raid scaling on this difficulty seems better than previous versions, as in easier :P there were more but they didn't get difficult as quickly.
I didn't have a good researcher, but I had a fast learner with research at 0 which I used, was at L11 by the end of electricity. I think the tribal start research speed was pretty good, maybe make complex clothing and furniture longer, but as mentioned before have a cold weather solution for clothing, maybe a cloth/wool only one like the tuque. I was into complex clothing within a year just for the tuques, it'd be fun to stay tribal for at least a year or so.
It seems like visitors/traders quite often show up right as everyone is going to bed, it'd be nice to have them come in the morning so you didn't have to wait for a pawn to get up and eat.
So, I got greedy and died- a poison ship with an inferno cannon centipede showed up, 3 of my pawns (out of 7) had the muscle parasites at the time. I was doing a decent job kiting with 3 longish-range pawns (2 great bows and a basic rifle) but, after a couple of lucky misses took a direct hit and 2 pawns went down. Oh boy, then I got sloppy. One thing I'd like to see is better pathfinding when rescuing, as in don't walk right in front of the threat, or maybe take the same route back as they took going in. Also, frickin' fire. Is there a fire proof aspect to clothing? Catching fire is the worst, it really breaks a game plan (again, I got greedy, lesson learned).
Muffalo were very easily angered, I riled up the herd twice. I had a rescue where I snuck the pawn around one way and they decided to walk past 5 angry muffalo on the way back with the injured. I had no such issues with wild boar which was surprising, I killed them with impunity.
Made an account just to say I've been playing the unstable build since I think it was 1.0.1949 and I've thoroughly enjoyed all the gradual changes and adjustments over time and have had fun watching how they've changed the game on the day to day and how I've had to adjust on the fly sometimes. Maybe I missed it but is there a more consolidated change log somewhere? I know the intent is to sort of keep it all on this thread and more low key, but kind of a pain scrolling through the thread trying to find what I've missed and what's been changed, especially if I don't check it every day.
Either way, I've been enjoying the changes for the most part and have been running the same colony since I first tried out the unstable build and we're 21 years in with around 20 colonists (phoebe on the second hardest, as it appears the name of the difficulties has changed). Nothing has come across as too unbalanced in my mind so far and anything major has been quickly rectified. Anything unbalanced I've probably just chalked up to the difficulty level, though I think just about every raid I get these days is mechanoid, can't remember the last time I've had just a pirate raid.
A lot to remember in the span of such a long playthrough, though if anything interesting occurs during my game in the current and future builds that seems relevant from a developer stance I'll be sure to mention it. Keep up the great work!
Quote from: HomelessAbe on July 24, 2018, 10:09:24 PM
Made an account just to say I've been playing the unstable build since I think it was 1.0.1949 and I've thoroughly enjoyed all the gradual changes and adjustments over time and have had fun watching how they've changed the game on the day to day and how I've had to adjust on the fly sometimes. Maybe I missed it but is there a more consolidated change log somewhere? I know the intent is to sort of keep it all on this thread and more low key, but kind of a pain scrolling through the thread trying to find what I've missed and what's been changed, especially if I don't check it every day.
I have one on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/1729827777335846049/
Colonists are still slaughtering boomalopes and boomrats in melee range, yet they are smart enough to not do so when hunting. Surely this isn't intended?
Possible bug: I'm pretty sure this isn't blocked by any tree...
(https://i.imgur.com/iHlddlw.png)
Haven't had a lot of time to play so I decided to do some more focused testing with deadfall traps rather than mess about with my standard games.
My conclusion is basically that if you're playing on Survival Struggle or lower and in a biome where wood is naturally abundant(including 30/60 growing) that wooden deadfall traps can take care of the majority of raids for.. 2-3 years. Entirely possible it's longer than that I just haven't had the time to test beyond that in my 4 games.
Sieges require you to snipe or otherwise damage them to agro them, drop pods require that you say " hey look at me " and then kite them. That's it really. They're so lethal and consistent that you can quite easily determine how many traps you need to kite a group through. Even just maiming them with 1-2 traps is sufficient to reduce their threat level to near 0 - Especially post-shield-belts.
On average raiders die to ~2 wooden traps, double for anyone in power armor. Those that survive 1-2 are pretty severely maimed and not in a state to fight back very effectively, and often a very small number of shots/melee hits is sufficient to down them. 80 wood per raider is a pretty good ratio in my mind.
As for placement/strategy since trap corridors aren't as effective as they used to be due to the number of raid types that attempt to circumnavigate them in one way or another I've found the most effective strategy is to just.. surround all your structures with traps. 1-2 layers is usually sufficient.
Hell I've even got a lot of them indoors, adjacent to doorways and in my large hallways. They've considerably cut down on the stress of on-your-head-drops.
I'm willing to lose a bit of pathing efficiency inside my colonies in exchange for a cheap trap that will at the very least maim an enemy that stands on it.
Given that the pathfinding is happy to hug player built walls to get around them and it prefers faster floored areas to walking on dirt it's pretty easy to determine where the AI is likely to walk - Easier still when kiting.
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As for biomes where wood isn't effectively infinite but can be grown reasonably easily ( Arid 60/60 growing period for example ) the cost-to-damage ratio of wooden traps is still pretty good.
Planting ~4 trees per raider is strictly speaking a lot of colonist work time but neither the trees nor the wood/traps themselves are worth a lot. There's obviously opportunity cost but having more ways to directly tie colonist work to defensive capability is good.
As for steel traps - Well 1 steel trap per raider is usually sufficient but I'll confess that I prefer the wooden traps. Severe maiming is often enough. It's entirely possible that as raid density increases conversion to steel traps in the late game is preferable. As I said I haven't experienced that.
In terms of strict value steel traps are more damage-per-cost and so when given the option of buying materials for traps steel is the right call. Assuming of course that you have sufficient steel for other purposes. Given the ease of availability via trading of steel it does seem like that transition would be worthwhile and inevitable for any high-traffic areas where your traps are always being sprung.
Spewing wooden traps over large areas simply for coverage is probably always going to be at least viable even so.
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The one thing that I thought I'd mention is that traps and turrets really don't synergize particularly well in my experience. It's often better to have raiders chase you around corners and through trapped areas than it is to have them fighting stationary turrets. It's not so bad for melee raiders as they'll attempt to close on turrets and inevitably stand on nearby traps but.. for ranged ones...
You can certainly clear a very large area open area of all cover and throw down huge fields of traps as glorified landmines which raiders will stand on as they try and seek cover behind your turrets but often they'll run around in something similar to single file which can prove to be limiting.
IEDs are better suited to the task especially as raid density increases.
All of this is fine - Turrets not being force multipliers is perfectly sensible. It's more that it feels odd that traps are most effective when NOT using turrets simply because you always want the enemy force to be moving.
Hybrid defenses of course DO work, traps that are stood on are not less effective when backed up by gunfire of any kind. I just don't think it's strictly speaking the right call to encourage raiders to stand still at the moment :P
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As for stone traps - I've only used them in my fields because both wood and steel(!) traps are flammable.
I don't mind losing a crop to raiders but I do mind my traps catching fire :P
I haven't had the chance to test a no-wood biome and see how your stone chunk reserves handle being constantly turned into disposable traps.
I'd be interested to see how a 6+ year colony with deep drilling and constant trade caravans with allies handles traps. I genuinely wonder which material ends up being used the most. You can produce a LOT of stone chunks with deep drilling after all.
Quote from: BlueMarble007 on July 24, 2018, 10:55:18 PM
Possible bug: I'm pretty sure this isn't blocked by any tree...
(https://i.imgur.com/iHlddlw.png)
It is, there's a tree underneath the blueprint footprint of the solar power generator on the north side of the wind turbine.
Randy Merciless, tundra no growing, small hills.
Half a year into a tundra map. My initial strategy going in was to double up on research so I can get drilling/LRMS for money since mass flake is kind of off the menu even with mass greenhouses. I accidentally started without a single non-hostile town anywhere in sight so I'm really on my own in the start.
I'm surprised that so far it's actually been easier than normal maps, I guess this is because of the considerably lower wealth accumulation. So far I've had to deal with just a 3 lynx manhunter pack, a poison ship with one centipede, and my starting raid with one dude that I recruited.
Normally if I start out with a single or no shooter I just kinda pray that I get turrets before the second raid, but doubling researchers really sped that up a lot. Probably going to do that in future starts.
The only thing I really hate about this game so far is the hunting: You're forced into it on tundra, and of course drafting and mass killing is the only real way to go here. Especially with the increased speed of prey, I don't really get why rolling the dice with undrafted hunting was made even more unappealing.
Regarding barracks: Since the disturbed sleep easing I feel like barracks are just the way to go, and now with the +2 additional mood they are simply a no brainer and kind of surpass all other strategies for rooming. If your pawn doesn't have a crippling mood issue, throw him in with the others.
My idea with trade was I was going to wait until a peace talks with my enemy and then start trading with them or until I got enough cargo pods to get them to neutral and buy the 20 gold for the analyzer.
But then I got 4 bulk trade ships in 48 hours 8) So yeah.
Not much else yet, was distracted with other things.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: BlackSmokeDMax on July 24, 2018, 10:34:18 PM
Quote from: HomelessAbe on July 24, 2018, 10:09:24 PM
Made an account just to say I've been playing the unstable build since I think it was 1.0.1949 and I've thoroughly enjoyed all the gradual changes and adjustments over time and have had fun watching how they've changed the game on the day to day and how I've had to adjust on the fly sometimes. Maybe I missed it but is there a more consolidated change log somewhere? I know the intent is to sort of keep it all on this thread and more low key, but kind of a pain scrolling through the thread trying to find what I've missed and what's been changed, especially if I don't check it every day.
I have one on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/1729827777335846049/
Awesome, this works great enough for me. Thanks for doing the legwork on that.
Here are two consistent things I've noticed during my current colony:
- Pawns path at the edge of the road instead of on the road. Sometimes they choose a path that'll have them walk along the edge of a river. Both the road and the river are roughly vertical lines. From limited testing, they would only path on the road if the designated location is right in front of, but not on, the road. I realize that the designated tile is not shown in the image but I thought it would make it too difficult to see the path line. Whenever the pawn, Xue, comes back from stealing insect jelly, she would always take this path. When she goes to steal insect jelly, she would first walk to the river's edge then down toward an unseen bridge to cross the river. The numbers could entirely work out that these paths are slightly faster, but intuitively, I'd expect the road to be the faster route when going in a straight line.
- Pawns choose not to eat on a table when [assuming] the temperature is too high. I do not have an image for this. My current set up has a separate building where all the meals are cooked and left inside. There's a table outside. From memory, I've noticed that when the outside temperature is 30+ C, they choose to eat the meal standing up inside the kitchen building and not on the nearby table outside. This part is inconsistent, but the pawns sometimes still choose to eat a meal inside a cool area when the meal is left outside or near the table. Both pawns used to be nude, but now only one is nude.
One last note: I posted a while ago that I had a visiting tribal pawn spawn at the head of a river inside a mountain. Recently, I had an escape pod refugee that swam up the river to leave the map.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Played on 1.0.1972, Sea Ice, for 1 year, Randy Random Merciless Struggle & Commitment Mode solo:
Recap: I was going for a role play solo survival on the sea ice. Haven't played heavily since A17 and wanted to see if it was still viable or challenging. I would say sea ice and the game in general feels easier now, but getting steel is more difficult since there were no mechanoid events in year 1. Another 10 steel and i would have been able to start smelting steel from my large collection of chunks. The steel would then get food production off the ground, but even without it I only had to resort to (1) cannibal meal. This occured after my colonist had a food binge and some unwanted visitors right before the coldest part of the year when few animals or raiders come to visit. I didn't really feel threatened at any point in the game from raids. My pawn with (6) in shooting and a charge rifle was able to handle every raid without any real difficulty or need for medicine (I think wolf got wounded once from a mad wolf ironically).
Day 04: Mental Break (Food Binge)
Day 04: 1st Raid
Day 19: 2nd Raid
Day 19: 3rd Raid (16 hours between)
Day 23: 4th Raid
Day 38: Mental Break (Food Binge)
Day 42: 5th Raid
Day 49: 6th Raid
Above i listed my raids. I had a total of (6) raids even though my graph below only shows (3) for some reason, is this purposeful? it would be nice if the graph accurately portrayed raids and bigger events.
Both of my mental breaks were food binges but both happened when i had excess food. Is this intentional?
Still a little irked that neutral factions eat my food stores. I could see this being acceptable for an ally, but not a neutral faction.
I wish we could vet the colonist joined event, i immediately dismissed him and got a mood debuff that sent me into my second mental break. They never even spoke or saw one another.
There were a ton of Quality of Life improvements i noticed, is there any chance we will get some sort of condensed storage? The need to keep all of my perishables indoors now on a map with limited resources is difficult.
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/973226122624995028/2703FF0C2B1AF83E5CDDCAC7E9751AF9B41D1AB8/)
Dang look at those weapons. This a new strategy or just the weirdest luck ever?
[attachment deleted due to age]
I don't know if anything changed, but I get raids with matching weapons sometimes. All melee, all grenades, or all ranged. One time I got 13 raiders with all sniper rifles.
Quote from: xrumblingcdsx on July 25, 2018, 01:52:20 AM
Both of my mental breaks were food binges but both happened when i had excess food. Is this intentional?
It would be normal if your dude has the gourmand trait.
We're gonna add some feedback indicating the cause of mental breaks.
New build! Still lots to do.
Thanks for everyone giving experience-based and thought-through feedback. Boboid I much appreciate your look at the traps.
Turned out there were some issues in the raid timing generator, it's been fixed so Cassandra should be more consistent now than ever before.
As always the changelog is here for reference but please play it before commenting. This thread is specifically not for theorycrafting (though you can theorize all you want elsewhere of course). Thanks all.
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Misc text fixes/adjustments.
Remove drill building sounds from wood construction.
Misc balance.
Speed up: -Speed up research 10%. -Speed deep drilling 10%. -Cocoa tree yield adjusted, harvest speed adjusted. -Shift plant work from sow to harvest and speed it up a bit. -Adjust some build speeds. -Made prosthetics and bionics a bit cheaper. -Remove smelting and cremation research. -Devilstrand research is cheaper. -Increase mineable yields. -Improve power armor insulation. -Animal taming/training chance improved. -Made the ship buildings cheaper. -Double snow clearing speed. Factor it by unskilled labor speed. -Increase uranium prevalence.
Traders sell everything at normal price. Trade price base adjusted. Orbital traders carry 30k silver.
Bring back early-game time-based points reduction for year 1. Move the first raider's special conditions into the intro incident maker. Minor storyteller tweaks.
Fix: Adapt days can rise above max.
Deadfall trap damage count is now constant at 5, varying damage amount by stuff. This will also make trap AP vary naturally by stuff.
Fix: Overlapping and mis-timed raids on Cassandra. Fix: Too many mad animal incidents.
Adaptation is no longer affected if your own pawns down each other when not mentally broken (to solve exploit where the player does it on purpose).
Fix: Colony animals hunt and kill rescued refugees/pawns.
All quest letters are now blue.
All quest letters, if just one reward is present, now give a description of the reward.
Bandit camp letter now says how many enemies are at the site. Bandit camp now gives the total value of all the rewards. Sites listing rewards now also list their total value in brackets after the rewards.
Fix: Exotic traders sell 1-2 hyperweave in some cases.
Exiting refugees now know about and avoid player traps.
Death on downed chance no longer applies for rescued pawns.
Fix: Colonists automatically shoot prisoners you're trying to rescue.
The "Chased refugee" letter now lists the number of enemies and their PawnKinds.
Orbital bombardment explosions are now more likely to hit near the center. Orbital bombardment is now 20% longer.
Fix 3365: Error thrown when two hostile factions meet
Fix 3532: Exception filling window for RimWorld.MainTabWindow_Restrict: System.NullReferenceException
Fix: Targeting ground causes errors.
After experimenting with melee weapons, I think this game would benefit from plasteel enhanced thrumbohorns.
Is the restriction for gifting being the same goods as the trader normally buys intentional? Seems a bit odd, but whatever.
QuoteFix: Exotic traders sell 1-2 hyperweave in some cases.
Now exotic traders often sell up to 200 hyperweave at a time, dirt cheap. You can snag it all up for like 2k silver. Was that intended? Synthread, which is inferior, seems to be the new hyperweave now, in terms of rarity.
A tribe starting with electric smelting and cremating unlocked is weird. Just saying :)
Quote from: Rah on July 25, 2018, 05:29:24 AM
QuoteFix: Exotic traders sell 1-2 hyperweave in some cases.
Now exotic traders often sell up to 200 hyperweave at a time, dirt cheap. You can snag it all up for like 2k silver. Was that intended? Synthread, which is inferior, seems to be the new hyperweave now, in terms of rarity.
The count sounds right, 2000 silver is a lot, does it seem too cheap or something?
Quote from: Tynan on July 25, 2018, 05:50:24 AM
The count sounds right, 2000 silver is a lot, does it seem too cheap or something?
The price per HP multiplier should be considered, since some textiles last longer than others. HW has 9 mktval for 2.4 HP mult, whereas e.g. DS has 5.5 mkt val for 1.3 mult, meaning HW lasts 1.85x as long for 1.64x the cost. This makes it cheaper per wear duration than DS despite being a superior fabric. Compare to cloth, with mktval 1.5 and HP mult 1x. HW is only 2.5x as expensive per wear! Despite it being the gap between one of the best and one of the worst textiles in the game. If you offered a recipe to convert 3 cloth to 1 HW, I would churn it all day!! If you only wish to compare with the other fabric that can only be bought, HW is only 20% more expensive per wear than synthread. For that you get 4x the sharps and infinityx the blunts, bargain!!!
Well things you can grow vs things you have to buy with markups end up being a lot cheaper in a real game. Outfitting just 10 colonists with hyperweave costs 20k silver. That's hard even on a permasummer flake plantation with the trade modifiers. But I can grow like a zillion cloth or devilstrand.
If someone posts a screenshot with full hyperweave then I'll believe it's imbalanced ::)
Quote from: Greep on July 25, 2018, 06:12:08 AM
Well things you can grow vs things you have to buy with markups end up being a lot cheaper in a real game. Outfitting just 10 colonists with hyperweave costs 20k silver. That's hard even on a permasummer flake plantation with the trade modifiers. But I can grow like a zillion cloth or devilstrand.
If someone posts a screenshot with full hyperweave then I'll believe it's imbalanced ::)
Sure that's why I included synthread. I have saves with nearly 10 archotech pieces which were over 4k each.
Finally played around with the new traps today! They are definitely extra potent now, as the wooden ones seem to be able to two shot most early game raiders and small to medium manhunting animals. I tried out a new run with naked brutality, and ended up rolling with a colonist that had 2 shooting and merely a short bow. I always ended up losing head-on fights with raiders, so I instead set up a small field of deadfall traps and lured the raiders in there. If they didn't end up dying, I was able to capture them and recruit them.
I feel like the cost of rebuilding wooden deadfalls is negligible in biomes where wood is readily available, but I can definitely see this being a harder strategy to consistently pull off in desert or tundra biomes. Steel and stone traps would be harder to build in the beginning, but could be a huge boon mid-late game.
Yeah I hadn't even thought of wood traps because I was in arid shrubland when that hit xD In any case currently trying out the component-less IED traps with... mixed success ::)
Question: In the scenario editor when starting a new game, does 'Allowed age range' only affect the pawns you roll or all pawns in the game? My guess is just starting pawns, but I'd like to know for sure.
I wonder how orbital traders work now. In B18, they used to appear either a few times within a short amount of time or don't appear for years at all.
am i the only one having problems starting new world on crash land?
my ppl dosent show up, tried 4 times.
now i play naked start thingy..
anyways.
small feedbacks
- new room stats display, how about add temperature to it too? would be easier to see quickly.
-also i know its always been that way, but always struggle to find poeples stats keep forgetting it named story that menu, maybe a rename for something better? :D
-new sand textures ROCKS ! thank you!
/ especially new sandbags are nice, now i only wish/dream/hope barb wire will be vanilla with a nice texture too.
- is it able to add same search option like dev. menu to research to find stuff easier? :D
-coloring stock piles? :D
anyways nice to see all those new stuff, i will play more with 1.0 and get back if i stumple across any bugs =)
So this just happened. What a saucy fellow...
[attachment deleted due to age]
Suggestion: maybe when in-game and loading the world map, it should say 'Loading world...' instead of 'Generating'.
Also, I think it's non-intuitive how to butcher animals to a beginner. I think if you have at least one valid butchering bill, you should be able to right-click a suitable animal and select 'Butcher creature'. My sister is new to RimWorld and killed a boomalope, she wanted to butcher it specifically before it burnt away.
Quote from: robno on July 25, 2018, 07:47:52 AM
Suggestion: maybe when in-game and loading the world map, it should say 'Loading world...' instead of 'Generating'.
Also, I think it's non-intuitive how to butcher animals to a beginner. I think if you have at least one valid butchering bill, you should be able to right-click a suitable animal and select 'Butcher creature'. My sister is new to RimWorld and killed a boomalope, she wanted to butcher it specifically before it burnt away.
Yeah, I get how for beginners you wouldn't know to do "dumping stockpile" first then click to haul, then right click on the butcher table. But then it's counted as an ingredient isn't it, and you can't say "use this thing to do any job." I wonder if there's room for a tutorial there.
Randy random, crashlanded, "Survival struggle" (please change these to 1 word descriptions :)) 8 days in, my addict is already catatonic in bed with only 9% withdrawal, two others have food poisoning from packaged meals, 1 pawn has 3 mental breaks consecutively, tons of events all over each other, not sure if intended so added message log.
Few thoughts:
1) Why is there so much marble? in every play-through the most common stone chunk type I see is marble. Should it not be more rare or is it valueless?
2) Please bring back batteries by default to crashlanded or hide wind turbine behind research. Noob trap.
3) Please explain in the item description whats the difference between the two generators? Why is there a chemfuel generator to begin with that I can't get fuel for? What's the added value of the chemfuel generator?
4) Why do ALL animals have to be threats? Can't we have some 1 hit easy slaughter animals in hares, squirrels, field mice? They already yield very low meat for effort as penalty. Maybe even let a pawn who can't do violent but can do animals slaughter this basic wildlife?
5) TONS of agave in high fertility zones, map otherwise pretty empty (shrub). Not sure if intended
6) some mountains are uniform resource wise and bland and some have mixed, a mountain with plasteel/uranium + sandstone + steel + etc etc looks much more aesthetically pleasing. Not sure if that matters to you.
7) It would be nice if there was some build-able that exposes wildlife animal fighting messages to us. Its interesting action that's being hidden from us for some reason, and its a potential for free downed animals to tame or food to steal. Just lots of interesting micro interactions that we dont really get exposed to unless we're pause scanning the map every few seconds.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Are friendly allies who arrive via drop pod to provide military assistance supposed to crash through the roof of your base?
Quote from: drd23 on July 25, 2018, 08:14:18 AM
Are friendly allies who arrive via drop pod to provide military assistance supposed to crash through the roof of your base?
annoying but sometimes preferable to landing where the threat is or where traders seem to hang out...
Quote from: zymex on July 25, 2018, 07:08:04 AM
am i the only one having problems starting new world on crash land?
my ppl dosent show up, tried 4 times.
I don't seem to have this issue.
Not sure if this is a bug in the new version but if I have a stockpile set to hold corpses (like my freezer stockpile) sometimes rotting corpses or skeletons make it in and I can't get rid of them without clearing all corpses.
Quote from: Advent667 on July 25, 2018, 08:52:57 AM
Not sure if this is a bug in the new version but if I have a stockpile set to hold corpses (like my freezer stockpile) sometimes rotting corpses or skeletons make it in and I can't get rid of them without clearing all corpses.
I have had sporadic instances where the "allow rotten" option disappears from my stockpile selection list (not just becomes checked/unchecked but is no longer visible). In one case, reloading the game made it reappear. In another, I had to delete the stockpile and recreate it. The new stockpile had both options. I have been putting it down to the churn of updates on save games, but it may be related to what you're seeing.
Hauling: I'd love to see priorities changed whenever there is a blueprint that needs a particular recourse. As it is now pawns first bring recourses to a stockpile even if there is a blueprint which uses it. Please make it so stuff gets brought to blueprints first.
Cheers :)
Why is not possible anymore to talk to prisoners without recruiting them?
Quote from: Jan2607 on July 25, 2018, 09:24:27 AM
Why is not possible anymore to talk to prisoners without recruiting them?
I guess to prevent cheap leveling of the social skill.
I had an incapacitated refugee letter pop up today while I was playing a permanent toxic fallout, very toasty colony (there was also a heat wave). It struck me as a little odd that an incapacitated refugee is fine and dandy nearby despite it being 80C outside on my map.
That being said, I'm playing on a planet that isn't 'normal' so it sort of makes sense that I can't do everything that I would usually do.
Quote from: AFGHANPSYCHO on July 24, 2018, 02:04:51 PM
Could you please give us an estimate of when maybe 1.0 will be released. I've tried to play the game with the constant updates, but I end up spending 1-2 hours everyday before playing updating mods, figuring out what mods are broken, what mods are breaking the game, etc. I get to play for an hour, sometimes 3 if I have the time, then have to do it all over again the next day. Would rather just wait at this point.
This is a heavy development period. Don't expect your mods to play nice. Disable them or wait. Disabling them and providing clean feedback would be best. Sorry, man.
Quote from: Tynan on July 25, 2018, 05:50:24 AM
Quote from: Rah on July 25, 2018, 05:29:24 AM
QuoteFix: Exotic traders sell 1-2 hyperweave in some cases.
Now exotic traders often sell up to 200 hyperweave at a time, dirt cheap. You can snag it all up for like 2k silver. Was that intended? Synthread, which is inferior, seems to be the new hyperweave now, in terms of rarity.
The count sounds right, 2000 silver is a lot, does it seem too cheap or something?
For hyperweave, yeah kinda. 2000 silver is not that much for a decently established colony, especially given how rare it's supposed to be and how durable it is. Maybe increase the market value from 9 to 12?
Regarding the renamed Prosthophobe/Prosthophile traits and their descriptions, could you change "artificial body parts" to something like "enhanced artificial body parts"? I think you're trying to be inclusive of the new Archotech parts which are basically bionics+1, but the result is that it's unclear if you're also including regular prosthetics, which are definitely also artificial body parts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are not something either pawn type cares about.
On the undergrounder trait:
First of all, I honestly don't care the name for it, but I do care for its usage. The trait basically says "pawns don't feel cabin fever" and that's such ..... a non issue. There's literally nothing stopping a player by drafting the pawn outside for an hour and letting them back in. It does very little to add to the game. It'd be more useful if say, they get no mood penalties if they're away stuck in a cave somewhere and mining. Or yknow, mood buffs for staying indoors for a long time.
If all a trait does is remove a bit of busy work then IMO, it's not that big of a problem considering anyone who has cabin fever are basically researchers and maybe the odd cook/crafter. Also, if you're gonna do indoorsman/undergrounder, why not outdoorsman? No mood penalties for sleeping outside, enjoys caravaning a lot, the more the buff the more they work outside, and so on.
Quote from: username2 on July 25, 2018, 08:02:03 AM
Why is there a chemfuel generator to begin with that I can't get fuel for? What's the added value of the chemfuel generator?
There is research to produce chem fuel out of bio matter. Much easier to grow than trees. You can also get it from tamed boomalopes. And there is an chem fuel plant as a request rewards that produces fuel out of thin air.
Quote from: Tynan on July 25, 2018, 05:50:24 AM
Quote from: Rah on July 25, 2018, 05:29:24 AM
QuoteFix: Exotic traders sell 1-2 hyperweave in some cases.
Now exotic traders often sell up to 200 hyperweave at a time, dirt cheap. You can snag it all up for like 2k silver. Was that intended? Synthread, which is inferior, seems to be the new hyperweave now, in terms of rarity.
The count sounds right, 2000 silver is a lot, does it seem too cheap or something?
If you have some sort of moneymaker online 2k isn't much at all. Esp with orbital traders having 30k silver that's actually a pretty big bottleneck gone.
That being said I don't see a problem with hyperweave being accessible for once. Literally never used it outside of cargo pods
Quote from: Tynan on July 25, 2018, 04:29:00 AM
Bring back early-game time-based points reduction for year 1. Move the first raider's special conditions into the intro incident maker. Minor storyteller tweaks.
Fix: Adapt days can rise above max.
Fix: Overlapping and mis-timed raids on Cassandra. Fix: Too many mad animal incidents.
I'm 88 days into a new colony, and the early raids are now easy even on extreme Cassandra. Easy as two tribals with bad equipment, one raider with a machine pistol, one mad Elk, six mad yorkshire terriers. If the goal was to make early raids more managable, this went a bit too far. Also I'm still seeing quite a few mad animal incidents. I'm on version 1975 just to make sure we're talking about the same version.
I was overrun by a mechanoid raid which came from three directions while I was gathering wood and caught me unprepared. Multi directional attacks are a great addition in this kind of situation where you basically have two choices. Divide your forces and micro like crazy or focus on one flank at a time. The former is honestly not possible without abusing pause while the latter guarantees extensive material damage. I like it a lot.
I was able to kit a single colonist in hyperweave clothing and I think it's pretty reasonable. At the same point power armor and charge weaponry were going online faction wide. Reverting back or nerfing the new changes will just make it useless once more. Without mods to produce it, it's too much of a hassle to collect scraps every now and then. And with so much going on in a game, you would forget about collecting it eventually. So being able to make one shirt and one pant from a trader on one go is welcome.
Some random things I noticed:
- I can build the electric smelter and crematorium as a tribe when I don't have electricity researched.
- I like the new "merciless" difficulty name, although the "struggle" sounds a bit weird. But I think "survival" does not fit here. Many other survival games I've played are way easier and I think on them when I see this difficulty name. May be biased and on top from someone who speaks english as a foreign language. Even the old "extreme" would be better (rough --> extreme --> merciless)
- I had an unusual strong raid on day 11. The raid after that was way weaker even though fun points were a bit higher. And that raid is not marked on the graphs with a red dot. But it was a normal raid (with prepare time), not a refugee chase. (7 outlanders with flak/pistols/smg/shotgun/molotov vs. 5 tribals with nothing but bows on the raid after). Are prepare raids that much stronger? I can give graphs/safe/whatever later if you need.
- I would like a forbid refill gizmo on passive coolers, campfires and torches
- I play on arid as a tribe (so start with tree sowing) and even there it isn't much worth to sow because it takes so much time. I could imagine on tropical it may be fine with sowing teak as a high-yield tree, but there are may enough wild trees. Instead of planting trees, I plant something else and sell it to buy wood. I like this interaction, so that the effective way is more complex and risky, but it just feels not nice seeing a colonist planting a tree for hours.
- The high lifetime on trees causes that on forest biomes after a time there are almost only 100% grown trees. Before that, there was a natural life cycle and a nice mix of young and grown plants on the map. Now it looks boring and unnatural.
- I can't sell meals to cities although it's listed that they buy them.
- I like the reduced relation gain from releasing prisoners. Mostly people release the ones they don't want so it's basicly throwing trash away and getting relation for it. There is still not much reason to execute and I can't remember when the last time was that I gifted silver for relation on the comms console. (Not even sure if that is still possible in 1.0). I gifted trash slaves and a bad/addicted colonist once via drop pod in the last game and it gave a huge boost on relation.
- I think the outdoor need was fine earlier. It wasn't a big problem for normal bases or when pawns do the usual stuff outside from time to time. It went easier and easier in the last patches and all it does makes the boring mountain bunker better. That is still by far the most seen base type and I'm pretty sure it's not because people simply like the color of stone.
- Quests are way too rare now or I just have bad luck. Only got 1 prisoner rescue in ~35 days, last game was even worse and the one before that similar. I don't want them to get a huge benefit. More like that it adds diversity. I would like a few item stashes or trade offers near my base that give something the value of 1 or 2 drop pod events in the early game. It would be like an intro to caravaning later in the game and would spice it a bit up.
- I had a thrumbo on day 6 I could kill with the tribal start stuff and only lost an animal. Colonists only got a few injuries. It is nice that it is possible so that an early thrumbo event is not a waste I can't do, but it feels it it not righteous to the majestic thrumbo to kill him this easy.
- I like that hyperweave is more available now, but I feel it's too much. I guess it's the common test practice for now. I already traded stuff for around 7k or more this early, so 2k isn't much and I already bought a bit hyperweave. I don't think it should be that much more expensive but it should be rarer, so that hyperweave apparel is a nice addition and not that I can equip everyone easily with it. I will try to see when and how much I can get to report later.
Hmm can't heal the pawn from escape pod, he heals himself before i do it
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Toast on July 25, 2018, 10:38:28 AM
Regarding the renamed Prosthophobe/Prosthophile traits and their descriptions, could you change "artificial body parts" to something like "enhanced artificial body parts"? I think you're trying to be inclusive of the new Archotech parts which are basically bionics+1, but the result is that it's unclear if you're also including regular prosthetics, which are definitely also artificial body parts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are not something either pawn type cares about.
All prosthetics are counted including peg legs. Not the upgrade they were looking for, I'm sure, but I'm not complaining
Quote from: Tynan on July 25, 2018, 04:24:16 AM
We're gonna add some feedback indicating the cause of mental breaks.
But is this possible? A mental break occurs when you fall below a certain number due to
various causes. Removing one of the most recent causes does not work. It is more effective to add a tutorial on how to manage your mood.
Quote from: East on July 25, 2018, 12:31:12 PM
Quote from: Tynan on July 25, 2018, 04:24:16 AM
We're gonna add some feedback indicating the cause of mental breaks.
But is this possible? A mental break occurs when you fall below a certain number due to various causes. Removing one of the most recent causes does not work. It is more effective to add a tutorial on how to manage your mood.
I think it was in relation to my post. My colonist kept getting the same mental break: food binge. So he was going to add language to explain why you got that specific break and not a different one. I'm curious what the math is behind the breaks, as it does not appear to be entirely random.
Well low mood itself is only one cause, I think the feedback would be more like:
Mental break caused by:
-low mood
-gourmand felt like it
-druggie felt like it
-pyro felt like it
-druggie withdrawal daze
-alzheimers daze
etc
etc
i really like the fact you can see now how many refugees enemies are chasing from !
Quote from: mcduff on July 24, 2018, 05:37:36 PM
I'm getting a lot of my domestic animals accidentally hitting traps now. Way more than before. I've lost about 5 in 10 days, which is a bit irritating, especially since traps are so much further apart.
My death rate is not as high but I have noticed this as well.
A few quick points based on my recent play experience:
- On traps: I have deinstalled many and left the others on "do not rearm". They are too much of a resource drain for an uncertain outcome. I may keep some around in my base as a last line of defense against getting swarmed, but in most places they are now not worth it to me. I do enjoy the IEDs without the component cost - I actuallly prefer them to traps now. The steel cost is not that big and the effect is potentially much bigger. So I have moved away from traps. I never had strong killzones or trap corridors, they were only spread around my buildings somewhat.
- On long range mineral scanning: so it needs research? But it's not showing a progress? And the documentation says it just happens randomly... So do I need someone at the station? There may be a patch note explaining it but that cannot be the solution for the people in game.
- Synthread and hyperweave now show up in towns for sale at decent quantities. Synthread seems pointless for it's price range, would never buy it. Hyperweave however seems underpriced, I would buy it at twice the price still, and probably for my best guys' dusters at triple the price.
- not sure if something changed but caravans seem more regular again. I felt for a while that I was barely getting any visiting, maybe only one a year. Now it seems more often again.
- Cassandra was indeed uneven with me but I see that's fixed.
- I play in arid shrubland, cassandra rough, and I barely see any animals. For over a year I had only a single herd of elephants and one of dromedaries, plus the occasional ostrich or emu. I would expect a bit more diversity and animals in the shrubland maybe - it almost feels like desert to me.
- I think devilstrand is still problematic with a lower cost. The only real price you pay is the research - afterwards with the right colonist it comes free, over time. Then it's pretty much beating out most other materials aleady, it jumps the textile progression forward so much. I think I would still get to it relatively fast even if it cost 2000 or more, unless soil was extremely limited.
13 of my chickens were stricken with plague.
I had to throw a bunch of colonists on Handling duty to keep them feed.
Apparently they thought the best idea was to feed the chickens the simple meals instead of the kibble.
I can't forbid the meals without also denying the colonists their food source...
I can't help but think that colony animals should have a filter list for what foods handlers are allowed to feed them.
Quote from: erdrik on July 25, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
13 of my chickens were stricken with plague.
I had to throw a bunch of colonists on Handling duty to keep them feed.
Apparently they thought the best idea was to feed the chickens the simple meals instead of the kibble.
I can't forbid the meals without also denying the colonists their food source...
I can't help but think that colony animals should have a filter list for what foods handlers are allowed to feed them.
I'd love some more control over who eats what or gets fed what. My other wish would be for the ability to reorder tasks for skills ie have constructors fix before building if I wanted of intellect choosing if research or long range scanning is done first. Another thing would be being able to copy clothing bill settings and apply them to another bill ie I want them to do until x, count worn, above 60%durability and norm quality. I use these settings for shirt, pants, cowboy hats and dusters to keep clothing needs met automatically.
Quote from: erdrik on July 25, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
13 of my chickens were stricken with plague.
I had to throw a bunch of colonists on Handling duty to keep them feed.
Apparently they thought the best idea was to feed the chickens the simple meals instead of the kibble.
I can't forbid the meals without also denying the colonists their food source...
I can't help but think that colony animals should have a filter list for what foods handlers are allowed to feed them.
This is a subject I'd like to see adressed too. For exemple, this can happen with colonists too. I started making Pemmicam and Survival Packages to have a stockpile of food that dosen't expire quickly.
My colonists started picking this meals instead of the Simple/Fine meals that I keep in my fridge. It is really frustrating, I wish I could assign a type of meal or make these two type meals only consumed as a last resort.
This is really hard to reproduce, and I don't know if it's a issue with the meal radius or meal preference. For meal preference I would try something like:
Higher number, Higher priority:
Disgusting raw meat - 1
Human Meat - 1
Kibble - 1
Raw animal meat - 2
Raw vegetable - 3
Pemmicam and Survival Meal - 4
Raw fruit (no penalty) - 4
Simple Meal - 5
Fine Meal - 6
Lavish Meal - 7
I believe that this order should take place regardless of distance of the meal. For animals, I'd just revert this numbers so that Kibble and raw food comes first.
Quote from: Listen1 on July 25, 2018, 02:00:56 PM
Quote from: erdrik on July 25, 2018, 01:36:48 PM
13 of my chickens were stricken with plague.
I had to throw a bunch of colonists on Handling duty to keep them feed.
Apparently they thought the best idea was to feed the chickens the simple meals instead of the kibble.
I can't forbid the meals without also denying the colonists their food source...
I can't help but think that colony animals should have a filter list for what foods handlers are allowed to feed them.
This is a subject I'd like to see adressed too. For exemple, this can happen with colonists too. I started making Pemmicam and Survival Packages to have a stockpile of food that dosen't expire quickly.
My colonists started picking this meals instead of the Simple/Fine meals that I keep in my fridge. It is really frustrating, I wish I could assign a type of meal or make these two type meals only consumed as a last resort.
This is really hard to reproduce, and I don't know if it's a issue with the meal radius or meal preference. For meal preference I would try something like:
Higher number, Higher priority:
Disgusting raw meat - 1
Human Meat - 1
Kibble - 1
Raw animal meat - 2
Raw vegetable - 3
Pemmicam and Survival Meal - 4
Raw fruit (no penalty) - 4
Simple Meal - 5
Fine Meal - 6
Lavish Meal - 7
I believe that this order should take place regardless of distance of the meal. For animals, I'd just revert this numbers so that Kibble and raw food comes first.
Really hope something like this makes the 1.0 version and is just not important enough to worry about it right this instant.
New traps feel pretty strong on the forest biome. Randy, naked, survival struggle, end of the first year. I had 5 man raid vs my 6 colonists + a chased refugee. Two of the raiders just walked randomly into some wooden traps I built around corners of my buildings. Another one got shot and the rest fled. The raids feels pretty weak so far, raiders are just whacked by the traps. I got only one hit, one of the raiders missed so badly that he hit my guy four squares away from the target right in the heart, good thing she wore a flak vest.
Here is a screenshot with trap layout:
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Bowman on July 25, 2018, 01:20:55 PM
A few quick points based on my recent play experience:
- On long range mineral scanning: so it needs research? But it's not showing a progress? And the documentation says it just happens randomly... So do I need someone at the station? There may be a patch note explaining it but that cannot be the solution for the people in game.
The description hasn't been updated yet. You need someone to work the mineral scanner. The job type is research and it uses the intellect skill. It no longer happens automatically, and at high research with a researcher using it constantly you can pretty consistently get deposits every few days. I'm not sure if multiple ones worked by multiple researchers speeds things up.
Quote from: towhead on July 25, 2018, 02:13:31 PM
New traps feel pretty strong on the forest biome. Randy, naked, survival struggle, end of the first year. I had 5 man raid vs my 6 colonists + a chased refugee. Two of the raiders just walked randomly into some wooden traps I built around corners of my buildings. Another one got shot and the rest fled. The raids feels pretty weak so far, raiders are just whacked by the traps. I got only one hit, one of the raiders missed so badly that he hit my guy four squares away from the target right in the heart, good thing she wore a flak vest.
Here is a screenshot with trap layout:
Ah, a fellow 9x9 builder. Truly a scholar and a gentleman.
Quote from: anotherrimworld on July 25, 2018, 12:04:03 PM
Quote from: Toast on July 25, 2018, 10:38:28 AM
Regarding the renamed Prosthophobe/Prosthophile traits and their descriptions, could you change "artificial body parts" to something like "enhanced artificial body parts"? I think you're trying to be inclusive of the new Archotech parts which are basically bionics+1, but the result is that it's unclear if you're also including regular prosthetics, which are definitely also artificial body parts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are not something either pawn type cares about.
All prosthetics are counted including peg legs. Not the upgrade they were looking for, I'm sure, but I'm not complaining
Wow, seriously? This can't be intended, can it? ??? "I feel so limited in my human body, if only I was a rad cyborg with A WOODEN FOOT."
Quote from: Bowman on July 25, 2018, 01:20:55 PM
- I play in arid shrubland...
- I think devilstrand is still problematic with a lower cost. The only real price you pay is the research - afterwards with the right colonist it comes free, over time.
From one arid shrubland player to another, this is because we're using a perfect biome for it. Without long growing seasons and ample soil, it's not particularly easy to keep it coming.
Quick question, is it suggested to start a new game with each update to ensure the new changes and such work properly, or is it fine to continue playing on an existing save that gets updated?
Quote from: DubskiDude on July 25, 2018, 02:30:26 PM
Ah, a fellow 9x9 builder. Truly a scholar and a gentleman.
<3
Debug History Graphs from Last Night:
Naked Brutality
Cassandra/Rough/Temperate Forest (Year-Round Growing) - ~200 days completed
Version 1974
Gameplay notes:
Quote from: Tynan on July 25, 2018, 04:29:00 AM
Fix: Overlapping and mis-timed raids on Cassandra.
Whew. Had a Psychic Ship
and a Siege occur at essentially the same time last night. Glad to hear that this is fixed for 1975...it was a rough 72 hours for my guys. 1 Destroyed Spine, courtesy of a one shot by Mech Lancer, which used up my sole MechHealer Serum. My wood traps burned like a forest fire, courtesy of a Centipede's Inferno Cannon.
-Mech Lancers still feel OP to me; insta-limb removal or destruction when a pawn is behind heavy cover (granite walls and sandbags) feels like too common an occurence (the colonist who had the destroyed spine was in wooden Plate armor, which is the best that I can produce at the moment). As far as I can tell, a shot-off or destoyed body part has happened at least once (and in some cases, multiple times) nearly every time I've engaged with Mech Lancers. I'd be fine with heavy damage, but the loss of limbs still feels excessive, and there's no real counter to it until you have the resources and research to start producing bionics and prosthetics...or the silver to buy some. Destroyed spines should be a
very rare occurence, IMO...
it's generally a more penalizing outcome than outright death, by a significant margin.
-One request: is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)? This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey": currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.
This has an effect on gameplay: my infirmary is usually kept 100% clean. When bleeding colonists come in for treatment, they inevitably track in dirt and bleed all over the place, which significantly increases chances of infection. As it stands right now, my doctors waiting on standby can't clean the fresh blood
before they start treating colonists: they have to leave the room and wait awhile before it can be cleaned. I want to be able to get the room spotless before treatment, and right now, the game mechanics don't allow that...unless I'm missing something.
-I'm
really liking the fact that animals will now instantly move to their assigned zones.
I'm eager to start in on some 1975 play: there seems to be a lot of good stuff in the most recent change.
(https://i.imgur.com/4qlJZwe.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QY5HKOj.png)
AAR:
Naked Temp River - Randy Rough
Mostly, this run has been focused on managing wealth (8 pawns, year 3, 68.5k), banishing people freely, herding, developing colonists skills intentionally, and experimenting with a different defensive layout. I will note that my starter pawn is a good Shield/space bartender variant - so the early stuff was pretty gentle. Second was a decent female Raymond Wolfen .... Shield came kind and Ray came with a missing ear - married month 3 and they have been the rock on which this colony has grown. I did buy one slave pawn out of sheer desperation for a researcher, which I usually avoid ... Otherwise most of my pawns have come medium to low quality, though I have scored 2 with tough and 3 with fast-learner or too smart.
1. Wealth - Frequent trading and not keeping silver on hand are most of what I have been doing. Buying stuff rather then investing in benches and making it yourself can avoid wealth - I bought spears and shield belts that way. Most of this game before todays patch so some of my math is that it is better to trade goods for goods then goods for silver, for wealth limbo anyway, as they buy your stuff at a loss, then sell you stuff at inflated prices (basically, you went home with 1/4 value rather then 1/2 or so). Interested in seeing how today's changes effect that.
Past that, I made a perimeter wall using diagonal walls; only thing is its not as good as a fire break, but since tiles have no wealth value it has a ring of stone floor to fix that. Net, 1/2 wealth in walls for the same footage. The fact that my barn of hay (which sometimes I get rid of when its overstocked by putting it on a caravan and abandoning it because you can't even gift it) counts as wealth but my barn of dead mechanoids does not ... could use some love.
I can say that on these settings/wealth level, I have not run much risk of serious injury from any raids. I have had 1 downed colonist, ever, and 2 minor perm injuries (finger and a scar).
2. Banishing - I have banished 6 people so far. 3 pawns that joined, 3 I fought a raid for then banished, and turned down/ignored all rescue missions. The mood penalties have not caused any issues. Some of it is the wealth limbo - as it keeps expectations low, and I have weeded all pawns that are severe break risks in the process. Lesson learned - its not that painful.
3. Herding - I have 15 dogs, 5 muffalo, and a boomalope. Main issue is selling off all the puppies, as they reduce caravan speed. I am a bit afraid each time I visit the closest colony that I will see a huge pile of lab meat, but I haven't so far. Instead, I have the option to buy a lot of labs back. One handler has had no issues training and maintaining that mess. I messed with hay for the first time. On rich soil, it has a 114% grow rate. so that is probably a waste. The dogs/muffalo make up 10% of my wealth and I think that is relatively cheap for the amount of economic and defensive value it gives. Among other side benefits, they get injured a lot and it has helped a lot growing a doctor (I haven't had any pawns with passion for it, but I am have managed to get one to 10 anyway). About 4-6 animals strapped to a pawn with a pump shotgun has become my go too early game defense (not using turrets, door games, or traps this run). At near melee, the pump does not FF a lot, even shooting into melee. Late game, its lack of penetration against power-armor really makes it extra safe in that roll.
4. Pawn Training - I made an auto pistol early and it has gone from new pawn to new pawn (hunting). I have 4 pawns with no passion and shooting skills that are 10+. I have a 1 passion pawn who came with 7 intellect and undergrounder or whatever it is who is now intellect 19 and closing on 20 each day. With that one researcher, I have basically everything I want done pre-ship stuff. I made leather into clothes and wood into armor as my main sale products - mostly because it has allowed me to develop two 12+ crafters (didn't get any high skill or double passion crafters). Basically, slow development, careful pawn selection, and a bit of micro certainly pays off in diverse skills. The only thing I have no solve for has been social (best is a 10, came at 5/1 passion) and for that I basically recruit prisoners until they are low on resistance and release them.
5. Defense - Diamond perimeter wall wide around the base a good bit out, one end open, stone tile two thick on that end as a fire break, and that opening set so that the ranges on all doors nearby match range on colonists weapons (sniper, bolt, bolt, AR, AR, bolt, bolt, sniper). Wood floor also has no wealth cost, so I have experimented with flooring the "gap" and keeping an incendiary launcher on hand (stone floor around to contain it). It works, but I stopped because it hasn't been necessary and its extra micro, though flaming people running in circles does have a very Taladage Nights comedy value. Dogs and shotguns (also a very clean combo for sending a single colonist to hunt predators without micro). I keep shotguns near my sniper doors who get dogs so if things get sloppy they can switch roles (they are also my medics). AR pawns also get animals (nearest point to impact). Lots of doors with sandbags on all sides, which get restricted when not used for defense. A few doors with no bags and stone paths allowing efficient access out (again, floors are zero wealth, so I have come to endorse paths) in a rough spoke layout. I walled a chunk of river for 4 watermills. That end is probably the most vulnerable. No problems so far .... and I have been taking the extra raids/pawn chase the whole time (pre-patch that lets you see what is coming, which made me happy to see). No centipedes so far. Lancers and Scythe have all been countered by letting them get to the house and coming out doors right on them with animal packs and a willingness to shoot into animal melee.
6. Oddness - I have yet to see an advanced component. I certainly have the research done to use them. No ships, none in caravans, space traders, or villages (and I have visited the 4 closest outlanders). Basically, I am kind of on hold until I find 2. I don't want to get much deeper in wealth without better gear and bionics (we could use a few) so I am kind of searching and waiting. I wonder if adv. components are gated to appear once your own wealth level hits a certain point.
7. Other - I have come to believe that skipping wooden walls is a win. Some of that was a wealth comparison. Early, I use one map room and disassemble a few more for block. The solo starts make this a lot more possible, as well as the decrease in the penalties for barracks. Past that, after trying the small separate rooms route for cooking and butchering, I have found a lot better success with just using a very big room with low traffic for cooking/butchering, as dirty seems to be linked more strongly to the room as a whole then to the spaces right next to the stove. If nothing else, it makes it easier to see that its getting bad so you can micro someone to fix it. I still get food poisoning now and again, and sometimes it is from a incompetent cook (who happens to have 9 cooking so I am not sure what incompetent means...).
Mostly, it has been a learning and experimenting run. I am inclined to end it and try the lessons learned on higher dif.
Note - I leave load/save as an option. Never had cause to use it this run other then when playing with the wood floors for science.
Cheers
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 25, 2018, 03:49:29 PM
-One request: is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)? This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey": currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.
Can double that, this cleaning micro is maddening. Btw your doctor doesn't need to leave the room, it's enough just to stay there on a spot for a while, like 10 seconds or something.
Quote from: towhead on July 25, 2018, 04:17:48 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 25, 2018, 03:49:29 PM
-One request: is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)? This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey": currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.
Can double that, this cleaning micro is maddening. Btw your doctor doesn't need to leave the room, it's enough just to stay there on a spot for a while, like 10 seconds or something.
I am going to "third" this. Specifically, I want the cook to clean up the dirt on the floor so my pawns stop getting food poisoned every other meal. The food poisoning is ultra-obnoxious atm.
Quote from: Listen1 on July 25, 2018, 02:00:56 PM
Pemmicam and Survival Meal - 4
Do you mean nutri-meal? Survival meals are worth a LOT, they keep without refridgeration so can be stored in the hospital and are vital for caravans more than a few days. Also I think they literally sell to traders for around 40 silver so you won't want your livestock eating them!
Hey been playing the latest build on cas medium
It may just be because medium but my allies seem to think I'm desperately struggling and I'm not sure why they have left me some really shiny gifts like gold and advanced components. I have a handy cattle herd and a defensible mountain base with indoor hydroponics and chem-fuel power gen. Here's the graphs. Been holding raiders at bay with traps and micro along with the occasional summoned allies. Lost 0 colonists not had much in the way of things i felt were a big threat. Is it because of my relatively modest wealth?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Jstank on July 25, 2018, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: towhead on July 25, 2018, 04:17:48 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 25, 2018, 03:49:29 PM
-One request: is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)? This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey": currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.
Can double that, this cleaning micro is maddening. Btw your doctor doesn't need to leave the room, it's enough just to stay there on a spot for a while, like 10 seconds or something.
I am going to "third" this. Specifically, I want the cook to clean up the dirt on the floor so my pawns stop getting food poisoned every other meal. The food poisoning is ultra-obnoxious atm.
It is most irritating when there's a high chance of a pawn developing an infection. Having to do this micro is annoying, and the fact that you can't order the pawn to clean the spot of blood you see on the floor makes it worst. My "solution" is to use two pawns when tending to another pawn. One to doctor, another to clean up when the UI allows me to.
Quote from: AFGHANPSYCHO on July 25, 2018, 02:38:19 PM
Quick question, is it suggested to start a new game with each update to ensure the new changes and such work properly, or is it fine to continue playing on an existing save that gets updated?
Nope, just keep rollin'. You'll just get a few errors usually. Sometimes an update dramatically alters your playstyle so it's your call whether it's worth continuing a fort I guess, though.
Ok, focusing on something a bit undermentioned maybe: world generation. I've generated a lot of planets in testing and wanted to give some feedback. A lot of this has been stable for a while so Tynan may not have any interest in changing this for 1.0 - I'll give my input and it's up to you to prioritize of course.
1. UI issue: The sliders for temperature and rainfall have only 3 labels, but have 4 intermediate settings (2 on each side) between the middle and the extreme settings. I honestly took many plays to figure this out. Some dots or lines to indicate the intermediate settings would be helpful to show there's more than 3 options. I played a super hot planet because of this but I wanted something in between. I did eventually figure it out but some guidance would help.
2. I regenerate a lot of worlds because of settlement density in the biome area I'm looking for. Having some slider for settlement density would be really interesting, and very much appreciated. Would cut down a lot on my "search time" for a world I want to play in.
3. Beyond the density, the distribution is still very random. Having some denser areas, with more roads and settlements, and ensured mixes of all the major factions, would be cool. I like to have all factions nearby (within 3 days or so max) and that takes a lot of time. Having one or 2 such centers ensured would make the planet look less obviously randomized and more life-like - while also leaving lots of wilder areas.
4. Having the same factions ensured is pretty good. It's moddable if you want diversity, but I really enjoy having everything available once. But as I said, if the map is poorly distributed, then some factions will only half exist for my playthrough in the end.
5. Alternatively, having more ways to explore larger areas later in the game would be great. I do like the ship quest, but I feel that it's really holding back world exploration as a feature. Riding or even cars would be really interesting, but will interfere with the challenge of the travel to the ship. I am not sure the tradeoff is worth it - the ship travel is is not interesting because it is long. It should be interesting for other reasons. To be honest, right now it's just not that interesting to travel to the ship. Getting there and then being there is, but the travel can be sacrificed to enable interesting travel options. It is a bit sad to see so much of the world but to basically care only about my little corner, and then maybe the path to the ship...
Related but in-game: the peace talk quests feel too easy. I think turning a hostile faction should be less dependent on them, right now they are basically a free friend, with extra experience to boot - you will have a good negotiatior by then. I've had 6 or 7 over several games and never failed one. At that point there's always been at least one pawn with social 13 or so...
PS: I am also against the micro of cleaning the kitchen whenever my cook decides to roll over to the oven. It's not fun.
Because these deadfall traps have changed many times in builts. Currently, I can't demolish or do any interaction with old traps at my outside base area and when enemies walk through them, these traps never launch. They are only just "graphic view" on the ground now.
Just had a frustrating experience - I know the 'new' armor system is old news in 1.0, and generally I like it, but I felt sort of cheated by a recent circumstance.
My starting colonist (and by far my best) on Naked Brutality was hit with a charge lance and killed instantly with a shot to the heart from full health. I calculated his total torso sharp armor:
Heavy Fur Button Down (normal) - 24.8%
Flack Vest (good) - 110%
Hyperweave Parka (excellent) - 48%
Total - 182.8%
Charge lance does 30 damage with 45% armor penetration. If I'm doing the math correctly, This means my damage taken will be: (182.8 - 45)/2 = 68.9% chance to deflect damage entirely (if it his the torso), 31.1% chance to take half that damage as blunt to the torso = 15 damage. Exactly enough to destroy the heart in one shot. The part I haven't mentioned yet is that this colonist also has the 'tough' trait, which reduces damage taken by 60%? Apparently this was not factored at all.
Poor Lobster..
[attachment deleted due to age]
Armor penetration is applied fully against each layer and each layer is rolled separately.
Thus shirt means nothing, your parka means almost nothing, your armor vest is effectively 65% meaning a 35% chance on hit of zero mitigation which is well enough to destroy a heart even with tough.
And now you learn in one brutal lesson why most defensive options not called flakvest or power armor are completely irrelevant against the strongest one shot kill threat in the game.
In fact you have people in this thread arguing over dstrand vs bearskin when the truth is - both are almost useless against big threats, and mitigation is marginal against even small arms.
Another half year or so on tundra. Interestingly, it turns out you can use IEDs now in the exact same manner as you would a trap corridor, simply staggering them a bit long than you would deadfalls so they don't explode on each other.
It's just weirder, a little more expensive, and you should to place deadfalls at the end to take out straggelers. Also you get to spend a lot of time repairing walls. Sometimes the walls explode, so this is probably the only case where I'd actually care what stone I make my perimeter out of. Too bad there's no granite on the map.
First screenshot is the IEDs in action, with 4 IEDS taking out a 13 squirrel and the final one with a deadfall trap.
Second is the fort so far. Nothing particularly eventful, just a metric crapton of very small raids due to low tundra wealth. Something like 10 raids in the last 30 days yeesh. Immediately after my last post one of my starting colonists gets shot in the face with a cannon and dies :'( Luckily she was the pure researcher and I ended up getting a lot of those as recruits so... I'm sure she was nice but very expendable.
[attachment deleted due to age]
And debug chart in a separate post because too lazy to trim my screenshot sizes. This is a lot different than past charts somehow.
[attachment deleted due to age]
On my cassandra rough permadeath playthrough at the current unstable latest beta till day 200(currently), my two biggest annoyances are
1) Unable to chat with prisoner to gain social for my warden unless i want to micro stopping the recruitment
2) Animals eating up all my survival meals when i fail to forbid them fast enough
On the other hand, at this difficulty level at 100k wealth, raids are rather managable with me not losing much except when i send half my people out of caravans (calculated risk)
Am truly extremely happy with the base game with just a single mod, numbers (For a quick overview of their movespeeds, current job and temperature comfort levels)
One more small issue, newborn baby dogs drinking up my beers till they blackout. Honestly silly.
Quote from: podium86 on July 25, 2018, 07:15:04 PM
One more small issue, newborn baby dogs drinking up my beers till they blackout. Honestly silly.
.... Rimworld is finally approaching the greatness of Dwarf Fortress! ;D
Quote from: Jstank on July 25, 2018, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: towhead on July 25, 2018, 04:17:48 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 25, 2018, 03:49:29 PM
-One request: is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)? This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey": currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.
Can double that, this cleaning micro is maddening. Btw your doctor doesn't need to leave the room, it's enough just to stay there on a spot for a while, like 10 seconds or something.
I am going to "third" this. Specifically, I want the cook to clean up the dirt on the floor so my pawns stop getting food poisoned every other meal. The food poisoning is ultra-obnoxious atm.
Oh wow, I had no idea this was a thing, and was so annoyed with the pawns not cleaning up the blood and dirt! Consider it fourthed.
Also, just a nice suggestion: RimWorld can be quite a relaxing game and it's often nice to follow a colonist (or animal!) around and see what they do. How about double clicking them (not their portrait) sets the camera to follow them around (until the camera is manually moved)? I believe the Sims had a similar feature. I would like to see the day in my colonist's or animal's life unfold. Another option would be to shift click them.
So... I created a LRMS, and my researcher spent 1 hour on it and immediately found a lump o.O
My guess is that your researcher played a lot of Prop Hunt back in the day and just instinctively knew the exact spot to look with the scanner.
On the topic of world generation. It would be nice if the generate random seed button would randomize the temperature and rainfall as well as the seed. That way you might start on planet Hoth!
Just started a new playthrough and noticed a couple of things, This is on Randy Random rough with no mods.
* - Stone block cutting until you have x is not registering how many are in a specific stockpile, it is only being picked up if you have it set to everywhere.
* - Playing on randy random rough so may be because of this but I am 28 days in and no raids so far. I opened an ancient danger so don't know if that makes a difference. I'm not complaining as it is a different challenge. Only one trader so far, and no quests of any type. I am in a remote desert area so maybe that's a factor ?
* - Only have a 20/60 growing season. 4 days after the season ended the growing zones were still saying growing season. The temp had been high and didnt drop for a while so I expect thats why. Text is just a little misleading.
* - Not having to research electric smelting and cremation seemed a bit odd. Would of thought that was a specialist process not too many people would know.
* - The Story tab seems the wrong name, I get why you have changed it but it feels like that should be the history of what's happened rather than a characters information. How about "Person", "Bio" or "Chi" if you are feeling mystical. ;)
* - Had one strange thing happen when building conduit. The person building it was picking up and droping the steel infront of them with every tile. Just looked like they were kicking it along the floor.
Keep up the great work.
Did the change with the caravan positioning got reverted?
I play a tribal game and finally researched air conditioning to build a freezer. One day later a caravan comes and camps in my base right next to my freezer again and walks permanently in and out.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Last experience with an LRMS chunk:
So far my strategy with these and caravanning is pretty low risk now. It's complicated but it's been fun working on the procedure.
1) Drop pod in. Send an expendable scout with a short ranged gun, a shield belt, enough meals to walk back, and a go-juice.
2) If a ranged ambush, bail and walk back to base or if they're easy send reinforcements. If a melee ambush, juice up, drop the shield, and gun-em down.
3)If it's clear, drop in a bunch of dudes.
Stuff happens anyways since caravanning is dangerous and unpredictable, though.
With this chunk I dropped in, saw everything was clear and proceeded to start mining, and since it was just components, I was gonna solo it. After playing at my base, I suddenly get battle music and slowdown and look around. Nothing. So I go check out my dude, and BOOM in your face megaspider. Turns out the LRMS mountain region actually had a hive I missed o.o Managed to stay alive with the drugs, but that was scary.
This felt kinda awkward, as if I was looking on the map I wouldn't have missed this. Anyways, thought it was worth mentioning.
Also: boom boom :D I think an IED corridor would better work wider than 2x, just a little
[attachment deleted due to age]
I've noticed that I barely care about furniture quality at all now. Since masterwork and legendary are barely seen and 2 other qualities were removed, we are effectively left with only 5 from original 9, meaning "end game" quality excellent furniture can be built from day 1. It makes high construction skill pretty useless too. I suggest restoring at least one of the positive regular qualities. Waiting around for a creative inspiration isn't very interactive, and rarely happens on higher difficulties with mood penalties. It's also frustrating to receive a useless inspiration, like repeated "inspired recruitment" on someone that could use "creative inspiration" when you don't even have prisoners (now the norm for 90+% of the game).
Quote from: podium86 on July 25, 2018, 07:15:04 PM
One more small issue, newborn baby dogs drinking up my beers till they blackout. Honestly silly.
Make a drug room and keep the animal inaccessible to nearby areas. It is important to have ample distance.
The invert zone setting will help you.
So I don't like U1.0 animal and human zone integration.
People in drug rooms should go and animals should not go. Integration is interrupted by this setting.
Or I need a new zoning that will keep the animals from entering. Like a roof setting.(order menu)
I don't see why removing animal zoning is a bad thing. Add "Animal-" to every zone you want to be just for animals if you need to.
guys is it true that 1.0 has mood debuffs for living under mountains and for using bionics without prostophile trait? Please tell me the guy was exaggerating..
Just played another game, where I started sea ice with a pretty good pawn who unfortunately only had level 3 in construction and no passion. This means he can't build a wind turbine, a smelter, or a heater. It took me nearly 45 days to get his construction up to level 5. I pretty much had to wait on spacecraft chunks to fall to be able to deconstruct them. Only through a miracle was he able to survive all the frostbite ridden. Winter nights.
being able to set some common settings for all the bills in the same bench would be a nice addition to QoL/Micro-ing of bench
things like setting colonist for bill & material range for example
aside from that, being able to rename each bill 'd be great to discern bills that 've different ingredients for same product
my typical stoves+butcher table often have, by order
-Fine meal
-Simple meal w/ meat
-Simple meal w/ anything
-Psychoid tea
----
-Butcher any animal
-Butcher strangers' corpse (x times - suspend)
-Kibble w/ hay+meat
-Kibble w/ anything
-----
all of those bills 're assigned to certain colonists, like butcher human's corpses, for example, being assigned specifically to canibals
all of them 're set with a limited radius
so basically, setting each of the bill 's really tedius, & quite annoying if i want to assign the whole bench to another colonist
Quote from: Greep on July 26, 2018, 02:52:51 AM
I don't see why removing animal zoning is a bad thing. Add "Animal-" to every zone you want to be just for animals if you need to.
zone:
https://i.imgur.com/L7dssy6.jpg
animal zone:
https://i.imgur.com/Bpr1ci7.png
Two zones for people(Temp work,inside) and three zones(safe+inside+outside) for animals fill the zone. Visibility is extremely low.
If the animal does not eat the drug, I would have favored the integration.
But because of the drugs, I had to separate the human and animal areas.
It becomes more complicated if you add more zones, such as cave insect areas and evasion, Grazing area.
I think that the separation is not such a great inconvenience, and the integrated state is not a great advantage, but there are disadvantages, the answer is a separation.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on July 26, 2018, 04:07:59 AM
aside from that, being able to rename each bill 'd be great to discern bills that 've different ingredients for same product
https://i.imgur.com/Wx5vSeS.jpg
It is a function that I want to put the renaming function surely.
One more thing: copy all bill
When I increased the stove, I increased the fabrication bench, and when I increased the smelter, I knew I needed the function.
Both of these are unaffected by the balance and are both beneficial and intuitive.
"Linked bills", "copy all" and "renaming bills" were already part of the "better workbench management" mod, and it's really annoying that only half the mod was integrated.
A few QoL observations:
Renaming bills would be much appreciated. I often have similar bills which differ only in the resource used. East pointed this out in his screenshot.
It would be nice to be able to disable feeding animals. During a starvation period, my colonists constantly tried to feed starving animals with the few precious simple meals I had left.
Drug-eating animals are a problem. If you don't zone them out, they'll eat your beer. Even then, I had a downed chicken and my colonists kept feeding it with beer (didn't have any food around because of starvation fun). Drunk to blackout for days with developed cirrhosis until I slaughtered it.
At first I liked the zone unification but now I share East's opinion on the zone division animal vs human. I have about 10 zones now (different combinations of indoors/outdoors/base/roofed/no drugs/no crops) from which about half is for animals and half for humans. It makes the Animal/Restrict tab very cluttered. I very miss that I can't copy zones. For example, I have a zone "base" which follows the (very irregular) shape of my base. Now if I want to make the same zone for animals without the drugs stockpile and crops, I have to redraw the whole shape from scratch. I think the ideal solution for zones is to revert back the animal/human division and allow us to copy zones.
Also it would be nice if we could restrict research skill and/or assign colonists to LRMS and research benches. I have two researchers now and I want to keep the low-skilled one using LRMS and the high-skilled one researching at the research bench. This is currently impossible as they keep shuffling around randomly.
Quote from: Bowman on July 25, 2018, 01:20:55 PM
- I think devilstrand is still problematic with a lower cost. The only real price you pay is the research - afterwards with the right colonist it comes free, over time. Then it's pretty much beating out most other materials aleady, it jumps the textile progression forward so much. I think I would still get to it relatively fast even if it cost 2000 or more, unless soil was extremely limited.
Maybe it's because I play on maps with seasons, but I really don't see this at all.
Devilstrand is only viable once you have a greenhouse. Also it's not free, it's an opportunity cost. If you're growing non-food items, you've got a lower sustainable population. If you need to feed people (even on simple meals), make packaged meals for caravans, keep your chickens and muffalos in kibble over the winter, *and* produce non-food crops in significant quantities, you're either having to enclose it all and use sunlamps (or, tbh, using the Skylights mod which is the only way I find it viable at all), or you need twice the ground and much more freezer space. It's all a trade off.
The biggest issues for me are always getting to the end of winter with enough food, especially once I get up to, say, 12 colonists, 10 muffalos and a pack of dogs. Taking some of that precious space and giving it to devilstrand is only just worth it as it is, because it frustratingly still wears out just as unrealistically quickly as everything else.
Regarding workbenches:
I'd like the option to take into account people's stuff on caravans.
I had my tailoring bench set so that my tailor would keep pants and button down shirts with 60%+ for every colonist plus one backup and always when I sent a caravan out, he'd immediately run to the bench and tailor clothes that I actually didn't need so I had to suspend all bills until the caravan was back, unless someone's clothes really got tattered in the meantime. Unnecessary micro'ing in my opinion.
I'm of course supporting renaming bills and the copy of all bills too.
Quote from: Emulsion on July 26, 2018, 05:40:32 AM
Regarding workbenches:
I'd like the option to take into account people's stuff on caravans.
Another one that was already in "better workbench management". It had the option to "count colonist items" "even when away". Very useful for preserved food, since otherwise a caravan embarking with a safe excess of food would end up returning and adding a giant surplus.
Quote from: Jstank on July 25, 2018, 04:41:44 PM
Quote from: towhead on July 25, 2018, 04:17:48 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 25, 2018, 03:49:29 PM
-One request: is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)? This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey": currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.
Can double that, this cleaning micro is maddening. Btw your doctor doesn't need to leave the room, it's enough just to stay there on a spot for a while, like 10 seconds or something.
I am going to "third" this. Specifically, I want the cook to clean up the dirt on the floor so my pawns stop getting food poisoned every other meal. The food poisoning is ultra-obnoxious atm.
I think it would be really nice (and a use for the "job bills tab" suggestion (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42770.0) I made) if you could have a priority job for your cleaners to do the kitchen and infirmary first, and for your doctors/chefs to clean those specific areas before cooking. At the moment if you set them to clean first they'll walk over the map to sweep up some rock rubble, unless you have enough colonists to super-specialise everyone into their own specific areas.
Quote from: Oxxian on July 25, 2018, 05:14:20 PM
Hey been playing the latest build on cas medium
It may just be because medium but my allies seem to think I'm desperately struggling and I'm not sure why they have left me some really shiny gifts like gold and advanced components. I have a handy cattle herd and a defensible mountain base with indoor hydroponics and chem-fuel power gen. Here's the graphs. Been holding raiders at bay with traps and micro along with the occasional summoned allies. Lost 0 colonists not had much in the way of things i felt were a big threat. Is it because of my relatively modest wealth?
I mean, is it not because you're playing on Medium? What kind of play experience do you expect to have on that difficulty setting? Admittedly people leaving you gold is a bit odd, but I'd expect, playing on medium, that I'm probably going to be able to keep most of my colonists at least alive, and if I have really good defenses that they'll probably stay in once piece as well. If you want more threat, why not turn the difficulty up?
Quote from: zizard on July 26, 2018, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: Emulsion on July 26, 2018, 05:40:32 AM
Regarding workbenches:
I'd like the option to take into account people's stuff on caravans.
Another one that was already in "better workbench management". It had the option to "count colonist items" "even when away". Very useful for preserved food, since otherwise a caravan embarking with a safe excess of food would end up returning and adding a giant surplus.
I used that mod in previous versions but never thought of the food, very good point indeed ;D
Anyone else getting a crapton of "Undergrounders"? I used to be happy seeing them but now not so much. Cabin fever isn't as bad as before so the trait impact doesn't warrant its commonality. Or vice versa.
Based on my current Cass extreme boreal mountainous run. I found there was very little urgency in the game. I could sit back and tech and dig slowly and be really picky with pawns and as long as I stayed on low wealth the raids would be small. I think it might be interesting to have a small (maybe optional) additive factor to raid points that depends only on time. Then it would not be so beneficial to wait for the perfect cute pawn.
Quote from: Ruisuki on July 26, 2018, 03:25:29 AM
guys is it true that 1.0 has mood debuffs for living under mountains and for using bionics without prostophile trait? Please tell me the guy was exaggerating..
There is a debuff for extended amounts of time spent underground, but my people spend enough time outside that I don't really have enough experience with it to tell you how much it is. I think it's comparable to the cabin fever debuff, but could be wrong.
There are debuffs for having multiple bionic parts without prosthophile (now named "transhumanist"), but it doesn't start until they have about three bionics and even then it's only a -1. After that for each additional part it's an additional minus one. Most of my people have 4 or 5 parts and it doesn't really bother them too much. It isn't as big of a deal as it initially seems, everything else I have going on in the colony as far as quality of life stuff has more than kept it balanced, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Quote from: Ruisuki on July 26, 2018, 03:25:29 AM
guys is it true that 1.0 has mood debuffs for living under mountains and for using bionics without prostophile trait? Please tell me the guy was exaggerating..
It has. IMO they are not that crucial. Outdoors need has been nerfed during the different builds and really mostly affects researchers and cooks.
I think the most extreme is -12 but it needs a few days to get there.
I had a mountain base and I dealt with it by drafting the pawn outside for some time once in a while.
I suggested that people who want to go outdoors more often decide to actually do it when recreating, not sure if something in this direction has changed yet but it's really not that bad.
BTW, I like the name change to 'undergrounder' because it's gender neutral.
For bionics debuff:
Can't have a look right now so the numbers could be slightly wrong but I had a woman with 5 artificial body parts and it was a merely -3, if I remember correctly.
IMO it adds character to the pawns if they ask themselves: "What have I become, am I still human?"
And it made me think: "Damn, maybe I shouldn't have given her an arm for two missing fingers, poor soul."
Adds to the RP-factor IMO but doesn't really change the game that much..
But I think cochlear implants shouldn't count in that regard, nobody would exchange a functioning ear. I mostly installed them to get rid of the 'disfigured'-thoughts of other colonists, yeah maybe I exaggerated and the debuff is alright then ;-)
But maybe an option for plastic surgery with glitterworld meds that doesn't get rid of the scar itself but makes people become pleasing to look at again..
Or make friends just ignore disfigured things..
I just really don't like that these people are so superficial that they suddenly like someone less with whom they spent the last years building a new home just because this person got a scar on his ear so I'm looking for ways to fix that in a balanced way..
I probably had the most fun I've had ever playing last night. I got sick of my surroundings (it was a random placement) and - even though I'd finished researching and had a solid base - I decided to pack everything up and move. I was 3 days' hike to the nearest road, and from there we hiked another day to a nice semi-hilly location. We built a new and far better planned base, everybody got really mad that they couldn't sleep in the beds they were used to and we almost ran out of food and medicine, I learned just how much the Zzzt event scales with overpowered grids, and ... my colony has bloomed to over 20 people?
That last one makes me wonder if number of colonists was recently raised. I've not had an escape pod nor a chased person in ... a year or more probably. And since moving into this new area I've had an escape pod and 2 chased people. All 3 were relations so I took them all. I even Rescued the escape pod person so she had the option to leave and she didn't. The last chased person showed up when I was at 20 people, and while his chasers were running all the way around my base, we recruited one of the guys who had chased the person before. So now I have 22 people. Not complaining, but I'd basically leveled off at 17 and now it's just crazy.
Also, I've figured out traps and like them again. It's all about the wood traps. Lay down some wood traps on the outside to catch any rodents, then some stone traps to get bigger animals and the first few raiders, and then steel traps to really lay into them. 15 people chased that last person. The first guy took out 7 wood traps, the second died on the first stone trap after taking out the last couple wood traps, the next 3 guys died on the 9 or so stone traps and the first guy to step on a steel trap died, sending the rest running. Bravo! Well worth a couple hundred wood and stone to not take a lick of damage.
One thing, when traps are marked to be rebuilt, they gain a home zone around them. Could that be turned off? Not sure if rebuilt walls do the same. I'm trying to keep my home zone inside the outer wall ring so I can switch everybody to "Home" and keep them safe in a raid.
EDIT: Adding pics...
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: mcduff on July 26, 2018, 05:54:48 AM
I mean, is it not because you're playing on Medium? What kind of play experience do you expect to have on that difficulty setting? Admittedly people leaving you gold is a bit odd, but I'd expect, playing on medium, that I'm probably going to be able to keep most of my colonists at least alive, and if I have really good defenses that they'll probably stay in once piece as well. If you want more threat, why not turn the difficulty up?
Oh I don't mind the difficulty its about right for my first go at permadeath with random starters Its challenging for me (because well I'm not that good and like to do silly things) I'm more concerned that my allies seem to think I'm struggling through by the skin of my teeth to the point where they feel the need to shower me with aid when my colony seems to be doing very well. It feels like there something wrong with their perception of how well I'm doing for the difficulty I'm on if that makes any sense? I feel like the UN is swooping in to hand out rice and clean water to wall street.
OK that makes sense yeah.
Started new game a few days ago. Cassandra, survival struggle, tribals, 60/60, mountainous schrublands.
5503, still no turrets/traps. Not that much wood and steel on a map. Probably need to try stone traps, but maybe later, because threats still manageable just with pawns only. Most problematic still mech ships. Barely deal with 8 centipedes(and few scythers/lancers) from poison ship in 5502. Infestations, drop pods and caravan ambushes seems ok.
Also, very big thanks for friendly fire rework. Just kill 26 megasloths manhunting pack with brawlers blocking door and 9 firesupport behind, without any friendly shots. Screens included.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: zizard on July 26, 2018, 02:02:16 AM
I've noticed that I barely care about furniture quality at all now. Since masterwork and legendary are barely seen and 2 other qualities were removed, we are effectively left with only 5 from original 9, meaning "end game" quality excellent furniture can be built from day 1. It makes high construction skill pretty useless too. I suggest restoring at least one of the positive regular qualities. Waiting around for a creative inspiration isn't very interactive, and rarely happens on higher difficulties with mood penalties. It's also frustrating to receive a useless inspiration, like repeated "inspired recruitment" on someone that could use "creative inspiration" when you don't even have prisoners (now the norm for 90+% of the game).
Yup. I miss the old quality system too. Made levelling your skills more insightful.
I'm not sure I understand the complaint. Excellent is still the same quality as it always was, and MW/LG are both "higher" than they were before. All that was removed was some "steps" to a ladder which were already very close together - the ladder is taller than before.
Well things have gone poorly since my last post.
This may be my final message...
[attachment deleted due to age]
So, quick bit of story with my current run where I've utilised transport pods more, and this feedback is also centred around transport pods as a result:
Story 1:I had one caravan go out about 2 ingame years ago now where two of three colonists (both of them doctors) got the plague on the way to some peace talks. Naturally I forced the caravan to settle since traversal was very slow in the ice sheets where my colony is located, and I rushed transport pods research (which got done very quickly). As I rushed my colonists at base to send enough supplies over for an emergency return journey for the caravan, I noticed one thing: only a single colonist can load a transport pod, unlike caravans where multiple colonists can load one pack animal. This alone made the packing process very slow, and time was ticking for the plague victims a few days out.
As soon as the pods were loaded which took a couple of days, one of the victims had succumbed to the plague, but the other survived. However, the other colonist had another problem: hypothermia. The plague victim had a good enough parka which would've made sure that the hypothermic plague survivor would've been able to get over his hypothermia - off the top of my head, it was -55 to -60C, the hypothermic colonist only had a foxfur parka which only made them good until -40C, but the plague victim had a thrumbofur parka which would've made the hypothermic colonist good until around -65C. However, the hypothermic colonist was incapacitated, and there was no way for the other colonist (healthy) to force the hypothermic colonist to wear this thrumbofur parka which would've ensured his survival, and as a result, that colonist also succumbed to hypothermia.
Thankfully I was able to get the third colonist back as the supplies arrived just after the hypothermic colonist died, but it was too little too late, and if it were possible for multiple colonists to load a single transport pod, both deaths could've been prevented - or even being able to force downed people to wear an item of clothing via another colonist would've prevented one of those two deaths.
Story 2:This one's just passed, but it's just another general gripe with transport pod loading. There's a trade request which requires 13 heavy SMGs for 4 resurrector mech serums, which of course is an opportunity I'd gladly accept. However, the journey was 8 days and since meat is a scarcity in ice sheets, packaged survival meals aren't a possibility since they require both meat and vegetables - a lot of the journey was also boreal forest and tundra, so ordinary meals would probably spoil. I instead opted for the alternative approach of setting up an outpost just far enough from the base in question to not cause relations penalties, not just to fulfil the trade deal but also for future trading in general and the prospect of growing devilstrand since the site in question is tundra rather than ice sheet.
Naturally I set up my 5 transport pods to be loaded with enough resources to get established: food, medicine, bedrolls, a couple of batteries, steel, components and slate blocks, as well as three colonists. However, the three colonists wouldn't satisfy their needs during the loading process, so as a result, their moods soured because of malnutrition, sleep deprivation and joy deprivation.
I didn't notice this until they had already loaded themselves into the transport pods though, before they'd even loaded all of the other requested items into the pods, and a lot was already loaded in so it wasn't exactly feasible to cancel the loading, and I ended up launching slightly prematurely - also being exacerbated by the fact one of the colonists had the plague, so I didn't want them to be malnourished for too long so that their immunity could stay ahead of their severity.
Ultimately, this context boils down into four suggestions:
- Multiple colonists should be able to load a single transport pod
- If a colonist is set to be loaded into a transport pod, they shouldn't ignore their own needs when loading other items - this could be a bug though
- If a pod is set to be loaded with colonists and items, the colonists should load the items into the pods before loading themselves in
- There should be a way to make colonist A force downed colonist B to wear an item of clothing of the player's chocie
However, there is also another thing I noticed since the caravan in story 2 was immobilised after the pods landed (not that it mattered in this case, but it could matter in others): There should be a readout for the total carrying capacity of the pawns in the transport pod UI, compared against the total mass of general items in the transport pods. This will help players avoid falling into the trap of setting up a transport podding caravan to be overencumbered, thus being immobilised.
Quote from: Tynan on July 26, 2018, 08:55:17 AM
I'm not sure I understand the complaint. Excellent is still the same quality as it always was, and MW/LG are both "higher" than they were before. All that was removed was some "steps" to a ladder which were already very close together - the ladder is taller than before.
It removes the visual component of progress. By removing Shoddy and Superior and making the Masterwork and Legendary jumps bigger than the rest of the qualities, you kind of made everyone just aim towards the top and not care too much about what comes. Armor, for instance, which had a nosedive in Awful, huge increase towards shoddy, then normalization up until Excellent, and a double jump to Legendary made it quite flavorful; Awful stuff was exactly that; better than nothing. Now it's the lowest step, which is a step below the second lowest, and so forth. Normalization in exchange for flavor.
For those that don't know what I'm talking about. This is for armor in B18:
<factorAwful>0.4</factorAwful>
<factorShoddy>0.7</factorShoddy>
<factorPoor>0.85</factorPoor>
<factorNormal>1</factorNormal>
<factorGood>1.1</factorGood>
<factorSuperior>1.3</factorSuperior>
<factorExcellent>1.5</factorExcellent>
<factorMasterwork>1.7</factorMasterwork>
<factorLegendary>2.1</factorLegendary>
This is 1.0:
<factorAwful>0.8</factorAwful>
<factorPoor>0.9</factorPoor>
<factorNormal>1</factorNormal>
<factorGood>1.1</factorGood>
<factorExcellent>1.2</factorExcellent>
<factorMasterwork>1.4</factorMasterwork>
<factorLegendary>1.8</factorLegendary>
Well, things get weird when armor classes start crossing over (e.g. jacket is better than flak) just because of quality. Quality's not that visible and it's hard to say it really makes much sense for armor on apparel anyway.
I'll look at extending these some more though, because I do agree the progression is a bit narrow.
I pulled Luke Wilson (seriously) out of a cryosleep casket in an ancient danger and after being rescued and lying in my medical bed for a few days, he went insane because he ate Human flesh. Now, I'm not going to say he didn't but I didn't intentionally feed it to him. Everybody's starving because we just got out of a terrible toxic storm and have 0 food so maybe they resort to it even if you don't tell them to?
Anyway, I shot him because he was going to attack us (he dropped pemmican. So I seriously don't understand why he was eating a person) and now I have the option to rescue him or capture him. I was going to capture him but the game says it'll anger his faction. But he has no faction listed because he came out of a cryosleep casket from an ancient danger.
Maybe they're talking about the Screen Actors' Guild?
Quote from: Razzoriel on July 26, 2018, 09:32:25 AM
For those that don't know what I'm talking about. This is for armor in B18:
<factorAwful>0.4</factorAwful>
<factorShoddy>0.7</factorShoddy>
<factorPoor>0.85</factorPoor>
<factorNormal>1</factorNormal>
<factorGood>1.1</factorGood>
<factorSuperior>1.3</factorSuperior>
<factorExcellent>1.5</factorExcellent>
<factorMasterwork>1.7</factorMasterwork>
<factorLegendary>2.1</factorLegendary>
This is 1.0:
<factorAwful>0.8</factorAwful>
<factorPoor>0.9</factorPoor>
<factorNormal>1</factorNormal>
<factorGood>1.1</factorGood>
<factorExcellent>1.2</factorExcellent>
<factorMasterwork>1.4</factorMasterwork>
<factorLegendary>1.8</factorLegendary>
Thanks for the list. I agree, awful should mean awful, not '2/3 as good as excellent'. I'd argue there are many ways armour could be awful - links could be shoddy or missing, material could be uneven, straps could be the wrong size and so misbalance the armour etc. I liked the variety of the B18 qualities - I don't think there should be uniform jumps between the qualities, more of a bell-curve type of thing.
I think poor should be brought down a bit (~0.8), and awful down a lot (say 0.4-0.5). Maybe shoddy isn't needed, but I feel there should be a step between good and excellent. It gives the crafting profession more flavour I think.
While I generally don't agree with shoddy and superior adding flavor - because I believe masterful/legendary being awesome is much more flavorful - I do agree that the quality levels feel a bit secondary now.
Before 1.0 there were more quality levels and they felt more impactful and that is weird. Shouldn't the difference between less quality levels be bigger by default? I think part of that comes from a larger percentage being "below normal" and masterwork/legendary just pushing the rest downward. Simply because masterwork/legendary are supposed to be a bigger boost and feel special they are limiting what the other qualities can be, because otherwise masterwork/legendary run a bit out of hand.
This is far easier explained with an example. The way it currently is, if excellent actually gave 1.5 instead of 1.2 in armor, then masterwork would be 2.0 and legendary 3.0, which is a bit ridiculous. So in order to preserve the ratios excellent can't be that much higher than 1.0.
In other words: The ratios are the problem. Excellent Bonus * 2 = Masterwork and Masterwork Bonus * 2 = Legendary, I think those should maybe be different. Like:
<factorAwful>0.6</factorAwful>
<factorPoor>0.8</factorPoor>
<factorNormal>1</factorNormal>
<factorGood>1.2</factorGood>
<factorExcellent>1.4</factorExcellent>
<factorMasterwork>1.7</factorMasterwork>
<factorLegendary>2.1</factorLegendary>
I think the important thing here is: Legendary does not need to be a huge step up from Masterwork. Masterwork is already "special" by having a particularly large gap to Excellent. If Legendary has a normal gap to Masterwork, it will still feel special, because we are so far above and beyond normal quality. You could even change it to:
<factorExcellent>1.4</factorExcellent>
<factorMasterwork>1.8</factorMasterwork>
<factorLegendary>2.2</factorLegendary>
Quote from: Tynan on July 26, 2018, 09:44:30 AMI'll look at extending these some more though, because I do agree the progression is a bit narrow.
... or you could make every veteran happy and return with the old quality levels. At least Shoddy, since there'll be 3 "bad" qualities, Normal, 3 "good" qualities and Legendary, which should be absolute fubar stuff.
Yeah Syrchalis that's along the lines I was thinking too.
Maybe higher quality clothing items, at least, could provide a small "I feel pretty" mood bonus while they're in good condition? That way the lack of differentiation in armor is offset by getting a moodlet.
Quote from: Aerial on July 26, 2018, 10:33:00 AM
Maybe higher quality clothing items, at least, could provide a small "I feel pretty" mood bonus while they're in good condition? That way the lack of differentiation in armor is offset by getting a moodlet.
i was thinking about something like that too. Especially with offworlders being accustomed to certain lifestyles it would be more natural if they cared to have any shred of their previous lives. Perhaps a fashionista trait that gives art skill?
OR people's beauty stat could be modified by their clothes. Or they could have small comfort bonuses just for wearing chinchilla fur.
Quote from: Aerial on July 26, 2018, 10:33:00 AM
Maybe higher quality clothing items, at least, could provide a small "I feel pretty" mood bonus while they're in good condition? That way the lack of differentiation in armor is offset by getting a moodlet.
This. I said that couple times already and i still feel that way. I mean there should be a point in getting quality clothing for everyone. The most fitting way to do it is to bolt a comfort stat to clothing quality.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 26, 2018, 10:46:00 AM
Quote from: Aerial on July 26, 2018, 10:33:00 AM
Maybe higher quality clothing items, at least, could provide a small "I feel pretty" mood bonus while they're in good condition? That way the lack of differentiation in armor is offset by getting a moodlet.
This. I said that couple times already and i still feel that way. I mean there should be a point in getting quality clothing for everyone. The most fitting way to do it is to bolt a comfort stat to clothing quality.
I also think it's a good idea, it's just a matter of implementation time/complexity at this point. It sounds simple but even "simple" things like this are a serious cost to get right in a game this complex. We're currently fixing more basic stuff before adding new features.
Also, for everyone,
new thread rule. When you post next, please include this information at the top of your post (just copy, paste, and fill):
Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome:
Hours played in the last 3 days:This will help contextualize feedback so we know we're talking about the same thing. Thanks!
Quote from: Tynan on July 26, 2018, 10:54:43 AM
...
Alright - I'm not sure if you've missed my transport pod feedback, so I'll just list the conditions along with a link to the post (very end of the previous page):
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Survival Struggle
Biome: Ice Sheet, Mountainous
Hours played in the last 3 days: Pretty much all day every day (got a lot of time to kill)
Post: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg422156#msg422156
Glad you feel that way. Knowing that you ll take it to consideration is enough. Thanks.
I think the current amount of quality levels feels good.
Another reason Masterwork and Legendary don't have to be far apart: Masterwork is the "craftable best quality" while Legendary is the "special occasion best quality" - they don't need to be "best" and "second best", but more parallel. I guess a picture would be good.
(https://i.imgur.com/3RPKT4o.png)
Sorry XeoND, I saw it, for sure. I read every post here and take notes. Pods are a tiny bit janky these days and we do want to improve them.
You guys vastly outnumber me so I can't respond to everything - I am sorry.
It's all good - just wanted to confirm ^^
Feedback on my current colony so far:
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Boreal Forest
Hours played in the last 3 days: 4 hours
I play at a glacial pace so I'm only into the second quadrum but so far the early game feels about right. I've had 3 raids of what I felt were appropriate strengths and was able to capture 2 prisoners as well as let one die who I could have captured but didn't want. There have been a couple of injuries but nothing permanent beyond a scar.
One of the biggest things I've noticed is that my best shooter (who is a 9, no passion, careful shooter) hits his targets about 2/3 of the time, which is wonderful. He can hunt effectively and has been able to (mostly) take down raiders before they could reach him. This seems improved from both B18 and early 1.0 but could just be my perception.
My first added colonist was a fleeing refugee who was addicted to luci. She's got great skills and has been instrumental in getting the colony up and running, and now that her luci stash is depleted I've sent her caravanning to see if she can buy any more. The nice this is that the colony is stable enough that I feel like I can afford to try to keep her rather than just banishing her as being too big a risk.
I have 3 boars and a turkey (self-tamed). The boars are helpful in combat, though so far they've mostly been involved in taking on manhunters because they haven't been well-positioned to join in on raid defense yet.
So, so far so good.
I think story tab is a good name for the tab named as such. Sure, it's a little counterintuitive at first. But the name, and that it is a little counterintuitive, stresses that the game is about stories. When I click the tab, I think, "what was this guy's story now?" Sometimes, an intentional error can create emphasis. Intentional sentence fragments, for example. Makes the reader pay more attention to the idea. Same thing here.
I don't have strong feelings about the quality "ladder" but I DO like the choice to remove Shoddy and Superior as even with hundreds of hours of playtime I had trouble remembering whether they were better or worse than the qualities next to them. IMO their removal does not impact play at all and makes the system more elegantly streamlined. I feel the same way about the compression of fifty different leather types into about ten. There's still enough diversity to keep things interesting but it's removed a lot of needless clutter.
It finally hit me that I've not been seeing the Global Work Speed bonus from Mood. Is this intended? I have colonists at very high moods, gaining no benefit. I remember a very real GWS benefit to having very good mood. Mood is not an easy thing to keep up, beyond moderate to pretty good. Getting it up that last 25% usually takes quite a bit of effort. Would it be possible to evaluate the pros/cons, on the development side, of returning this feature? As it is, I feel like getting everyone to a middle ground and keeping them above breaking points is "good enough." There's no incentive to go beyond, for me at least. Others may have a different take.
With the Lavish Meal changes and other changes to the recreation system, this might be a fine addition back into mood management. Why work hard for full mood (excepting the gourmands and drug bingers) when they're just fine at 50-75%, in just about every case in 1.0? Any thoughts, on this, from other users?
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival struggle (tribal start)
Biome: Arid flat
Hours played in the last 3 days: A lot, maybe 35-40 hours
- After I got a few animals (7-10) and let them graze on the whole map, there are no wild trees spawning anymore. I guess it comes because the animals eat enough grass to prevent the new regrowth system from spawning bigger plants. (There is pretty much nothing else than grass and dandelions.)
- Animals nuzzle around half as much as the stat says. I got a few cats joining and wanted to try if it's worth to keep them (currently have 6). I let them stay indoor close to my colonists and check every now and then how many nuzzle buffs they have and it's around half as much as I would expect. Maybe it is because there is no colonist near when the action triggers so it cancels and that try is wasted. I did not look at the code, this is just how I experienced it ingame.
- This is the first time I play tribal in a long time and the first in 1.0 (I mostly played naked brutality). It doesn't feel much tribal. Mostly because raiders and traiders have guns and other non-tribal stuff, soI can salvage and buy them pretty quickly. Not sure if this is intended of cause. After a few weeks ingame, the main difference to naked brutality is just having no freezer and the longer research time and after I researched air conditioning, it now is more or less only the research. The biggest difference for me was that I couldn't build beds at the start.
I'm not sure how I expected it to be since it's quite logical to advance in techlonogy quickly because staying low-tech is not effective. I guess I expected just more low-tech and more difference to the other starts. Maybe it feels better (more authentic) with more role playing on a lower difficulty where efficience is not that important. I think many people would be happy when the game has more tribal stuff (and also more medieval stuff too), but I understand it's a lot work for not much value compared to other tasks.
- I find it half amusing but more sad that I haven't got a single crafting inspiration in around 300 hours 1.0 playtime. I got a dozen of shooting and walk frenzy ones and remember a few surgery and work frenzy. It's luck of cause but it starts to get to rediculous levels. I think the crafting inspiration might be a bit overhyped in general, but it is still a very good bonus and way better than some other inspirations (especially surgery and maybe trading). It would be nice to have some rebalancing here so it doesn't feel that bad to get the "wrong" inspiration. The problem is that some inspirations are highly situational while others are always useful.
Surgery is nice early when there is a situation to need it. Later with good meds it is almost useless. It even isn't a guaranteed success sind it is a fail chance factor.
Trading is also situational to get a reasonable value from it. You need to have it when you can actually trade and have stuff to trade with and on the right colonist.
My favorite is probably work frenzy since almost everyone can benefit a lot from that.
I could imagine doing the same as with the crafting inspiration to others would be good. Like "inspired communication" which gives a medium trade price bonus and also improves recruitment a bit for a defined time. Or "inspired doctor" for better surgery chance and tend quality. Walk frenzy could be an activity inspiration or "more alert" in the meaning that they walk faster and get a minor bonus on resting, so that even when it hits the researcher, he still gets some value from it.
- Still waiting to get a trade offer quest since I don't know how many hours. Even if they would be a small and not that benificial variant, it would be a nice addition and I miss them from the earlier days in 1.0.
- There is too less variance in plants. For example corn is pretty much useless now. It grows really long so an increased risk of blight/fire/whatever to not be able to harvest it and if has even a bit less yield than rice (with factored grow time). The fact that it can be eaten raw and stays longer fresh is not that impactful at all.
Strawberries have a too high rist of food poisoning, so that even the reason to grow them when you have no cook or no time for cooking is too risky.
Even rice has not much benefit compared to patatoes on normal soil. It's just that it is faster and has a minimal highter yield to grow time. Rice is good in hydroponics of cause, but that is something highly biome dependent.
Apart from potatoes everything has the same fertility requirements and sensitivity. There is potential for more variation and it's not that difficult for a new player to understand if that is the reason to simplify it. Like a plant that only grows on rich soil but has good yield, so people may take the risk an either build a base near a rich soil patch to secure it (but that area may have other downsides (like less natural protection)) or plant it far away and risk raider burning or animals eating it or need to build extra protection. Potatoes could be less effective on normal soil than rice. Berries should be useful too. Something to take the risk of food poisoning or no poisoning at all.
Has anyone ever planted dandelions? In theory I could plant them on sand for animals, but I can't create a growing zone on sand, so not possible. And otherwise haygrass is way more effective than dandelions as animal food. Or even kibble of cause.
- I like alpacas, they are cool. Sadly they are pretty useless now (considering one has access to other pack animals). I tamed some dromedaries and later alpacas wandered in, so I compared them which I want to keep. Alpacas are worse in every stat, apart from that they can be trained in release, but I'm not sure if anyone wants to send his pack animals in battle. I think alpacas have a higher wool yield, which is also not really useful currently. Elefants are also better as pack animals, they just have no wool and eat like crazy. (And they would maybe be the only pack animal I would send to battle since they are biiiig.)
- Speaking of animal training: 90% of the time I see my trainer training an animal, it fails on an around 50% chance. Maybe bugged, but I guess RNG just hits me here pretty hard like with the other stuff.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest
Hours played in the last 3 days: 12-15 hours
Within seconds, one doggo addicted to Luciferium, the other has Cirrhosis from a massive alcohol tolerance.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kf978e0kclvsm66/luciferium-dog.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/27hm7s9x227cqpp/alcoholic-dog.png?dl=0
First off, could my buddy, my favorite doggo please not take Luciferium. As the screenshot shows, it was marked as forbidden. Why doggo, why?
Second, if dogs are going to drink beer, could they at least do it socially like everyone else, pop the cap off and sit at the table so I know he's doing it. There was no obvious animation / sound effect for him doing it, so until the warning that his liver was destroyed from his massive beer addiction, I had no idea it was going on ...
Yes, I could change them from unrestricted to a set zone and then I remove specific places that I store or have beer or any drugs from them so they don't come near them, but things drop all over the map from raiders and my dogs haul for me ... do I really need to police my animals so they don't consume these? :)
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 26, 2018, 01:38:22 PM
...
Even if you restrict your animals to a zone, they'll still occasionally consume some random thing - whether it be a meal instead of zone-microed kibble, or beer, or luciferium. The only real fixes to these problems are either to wall in your drugs completely, or not have animals in the first place.
That being said, the random eating is infrequent enough that you don't really notice it until you get over 50 or so animals.
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 26, 2018, 01:38:22 PM
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest
Hours played in the last 3 days: 12-15 hours
Within seconds, one doggo addicted to Luciferium, the other has Cirrhosis from a massive alcohol tolerance.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kf978e0kclvsm66/luciferium-dog.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/27hm7s9x227cqpp/alcoholic-dog.png?dl=0
First off, could my buddy, my favorite doggo please not take Luciferium. As the screenshot shows, it was marked as forbidden. Why doggo, why?
Second, if dogs are going to drink beer, could they at least do it socially like everyone else, pop the cap off and sit at the table so I know he's doing it. There was no obvious animation / sound effect for him doing it, so until the warning that his liver was destroyed from his massive beer addiction, I had no idea it was going on ...
Yes, I could change them from unrestricted to a set zone and then I remove specific places that I store or have beer or any drugs from them so they don't come near them, but things drop all over the map from raiders and my dogs haul for me ... do I really need to police my animals so they don't consume these? :)
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: merciless struggle
Biome: boreal
Hours played in the last 3 days: over 15 hour
Recently, I have been enjoying lightly rather than raising animals. I explained based on what I saw until the ending.(game version : 1.0.1964~1.0.1967)
drugroom : https://i.imgur.com/R6brYJr.png
animal inside zone : https://i.imgur.com/l3hgsFX.png
animal outside zone : https://i.imgur.com/cvpF6V9.png
I raised about 20 dogs. I took advantage of carrying dogs. And I set the zone. The accident never occurred until the end of the game.
If you set the zoning area effortlessly, the accident will hardly happen. If you see a drug with a little attention, carry it with pawn. Especially luci.
Do not exclude the only drug room from the area. Do not Let the dog go to the near hallway containing the drug room.
In my experience, if you eat it even though you have done so, it is an accident. I do not always want to completely prevent RNG from wanting to be relaxed to some extent with my efforts. By experience, it is similar to a car accident. It can be reduced, but it is impossible to prevent it completely.
It is a punishment if it is extremely damaging and there is no way to avoid it, but it is just an animal and you can avoid most of it. I need an understanding of how to do that. I'd rather suggest help or tutorials on how to do it.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 26, 2018, 01:47:24 PM
The only real fixes to these problems are either to wall in your drugs completely.
Google translator interpreted the above sentence as a jar.
It is a wrong translation. But I thought it was a good suggestion. tynan can make jars or shelves that can hold drugs so that they can not be eaten by animals.
Some additions:
- I just got another shoot frenzy. On a melee pawn with 0 shooting and no passion. I thought there were certain checks that this doesn't happen. I get a lot inspirations this game since mood is quite high. I like it to see that higher mood than just above no mental break has an actual impact. It's just mostly shooting and walking inspirations
- Gifting stuff to factions for relation feels too cheap. I have not seen how much actual value an ally has, since I only have everyone neutral so far, but it should not take much time to get there for me. With only trading I'm at +40 for one outlander (a year in now) and just gifted stuff worth around 800 silver to the other outlanders so they are neutral now and I can trade with them too.
- I have no ancient danger on this map. Should this be possible? (It is really non there, not just hidden)
Quote from: Lanilor on July 26, 2018, 03:04:01 PM
- Gifting stuff to factions for relation feels too cheap.
Its actually quite different depending on your play conditions. You can settle year-round Tropical rainforests, sow half map with hops or devilstrand and instantly befriend everyone, once beer\quality clothing is ready. Or if you're suffering through sea ice - you won't have anything you can spare for gifting. So no, i disagree that its cheap. It varies based on your conditions like many other aspects do and there no need to make it harsher. If you also take into consideration how easy it is to drop most of relations by asking them for help once and getting half their force killed (-5 for each corpse) - i see even less reason to think its cheap.
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 26, 2018, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 26, 2018, 01:38:22 PM
...
Even if you restrict your animals to a zone, they'll still occasionally consume some random thing - whether it be a meal instead of zone-microed kibble, or beer, or luciferium. The only real fixes to these problems are either to wall in your drugs completely, or not have animals in the first place.
That being said, the random eating is infrequent enough that you don't really notice it until you get over 50 or so animals.
Not true .. I got 4 Retrievers and my only female was addicted to psychoid tea before the first year was over.
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Hard
Biome: Temperate Forest
Hours played: about 8 for the game in question.
Megaspider description:
"[...] while it's long deadly ripper-blades make it deadly."
(https://p.memecdn.com/avatars/s_15836_4f45cce86e6d9.png)
Actually speaking about gifting system - i'd really like if it actually tracked what are we gifting to a faction, slowly building up "tolerance" to said item. So you won't be able to just befriend a faction through crapton of beer, but will have to make it various wares and resource to keep gifts being at maximum of their effectiveness.
Going even further it would be much more intersting and immersive if each faction had some kind of hidden light economic system emulation affecting things such as:
- Prices
- Availablility and quantity of certain resources offered for trade
- Effectiveness of certain items as gifts
- Trading markups
So the game would be able to generate a situation when a faction had poor harvest for example and the player could help it out improving relations massively. If such a system existed, you could tie some trading quests to it, so said faction would have a bigger chance to spawn a trade request that asks for foods. And etc. IMO that would be a lot more interesting than "the more relations you have, the less next gift will net you". Thats just boring.
Just my thoughts on how trade\gifting system should be.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Extreme/Permadeath
Biome: Temperate forest/Flatland
I just completed a game and here are some of my thoughts and tips during the playthrough. So I took the advise from another commenter and played the game through while trying to stay as poor as possible, only collecting and making the bare essentials needed to survive the wasteland of rimworld and oh boy, did it work. I'm not should if it was the fact that I saved a lot of time not collecting unnecessary amounts of resources or/and the staying poor makes the storyteller throws you easier raids.
Gameplay and thoughts:
Kept a single freezer room all game, it had 10x10 zone for food and dead animals.
Kept most of my food as dead animals as it didn't count towards my wealth and takes up less room. Most of the playthrough, My freezer was half filled with dead animals.
Used a nutrient paste dispenser through most of the game. NPD completely eliminates the chance of food poisoning, doesn't need a pawn with good cooking skills which frees up an extra worker. It also cost less food to make meals. NPD needs to be nerfed or changes to how food poison works because it happens way to often even with sterile tiled kitchen and a high level cook.
The only use for cooking skill was for making psychite tea and beer, you can't get food poisoning from making drugs yet.
Kept a single storage room for most of the game, it had 10x10 zone for general suff.
I tried to kept any stock item below 500 by building alot of floors and walls. I looked into the game code and found that buildings only add half of its total value to your wealth so building some stuff can actually make you poorer. I don't think floors tiles even count towards your wealth.
The only animal worth having are dogs with zero wildness and that can haul. Everything else need to be killed off or sold or best, put into a transport pod and send it off as a gift. This ofcource includes puppies as there basically useless for a year and thanks to how the game difficulty scales actually makes the game harder. Disadvantages of keeping baby animals far outweight the benefits it will provide in the long run. I think baby animals need to provide some sort of benefit other than waiting a year to eventually get another useful animal. An example could be to give a massive increase chance in bonding rate with baby animals.
Only disassemble mechanoids when I needed the materials. Mechanoid corpses don't add to your wealth.
Built mostly wooden door in my inner base. Built all stone walls. outer doors were steel. Wooden doors open faster and its market value is way lower than steel doors.
I don't like how fabrication bench cost a butt load of component when it is used to make components.
Ship cryposleep casket cost way too advanced components.
Devilstrand is not that much better than the flak set so its not really worth growing it if you colony is already outfitted with flak armor.
Transport pods are secretly one of the best research you can do right now. They is an exploit you can do with transport pods right now listed in exploit tips section. It also my favorite way get rid of all the extra garbarge laying around and get friendship points for it. Makes you poorer aswell. At some point in the game, I started having too much plasteel and gold making me more rich than i wanted to be so I used a transport pod to dump it.
I sold everything that wasn't essential to make myself poorer. Silver is the only item that is equal to its market value making it the only item not over inflated in value.
Art is not worth making unless you have "Inspired creativity".
"Inspired surgery" has never been useful. It basically does nothing.
I wish shelfs were 1 tile instead of 2 and the default storage filter should be set to nothing instead weapons.
I created and installed alot of bionics parts on my pawns thinking that installed bionic parts don't add to my total wealth. Haven't comfirmed this yet.
Battle tips:
In early raids, you can shoot raiders until there have about 10 hours to bleed out and just stay in doors until the bleeding downs the raider, this is an easy way to increase your capture rate early game. This also bypasses the chance that an enemy dies instantly when there get downed.
Always capture any raider that can be saved. You don't need to recruit them however you can release them for friendship points. This is important for making the game easier. First, if you convert enemies to allies you remove them from the potential raid pool, increasing chances other enemy tribes raiding you however if you were to friend everyone, the only raids left would be pirates and a high chance of mechanoids. You may think mechanoids are bad however there are by far the easiest raids to deal with. To deal with mechaniods I wait until there separate and pick them off.
Centipedes and Lancers can't shoot if a single pawn is meleeing them down there also very weak at melee range. Friendly fire is so unlikely to happen in the latest build of rimworld so feel free to use the rest of your pawns to get close and just shoot them down. Scythers are deal with like any other raid, just shoot them down and use doors to prevent them from getting close. For crashed poison/psychic ship, I build a small stoned room (1x1) with doors on each side about 8-10 tiles away from the crashed ship, the room shouldn't directly be placed inline with your base. I then setup a pawn with a gun that can shoot the ship and send him into to the room. After at my base, I make sure the mechanoids have a open path to attack one of my pawns. This is an important as you want the mechanoids to find someone there can directly attack on the map. Now the setup is completed, you use the pawn in the small room you built early to shoot the ship from one of the side doors. Once the mechanoids spawn, run back inside and wait until have another chance to shoot the ship safely again. At some point, the mechanoids aggro to your base with the open path you setup early. Eventually, the mechanoids with be out of range from shooting the pawn inside the small room and the mechanoid's aggro will still be on the pawn at you base. This is the point where you must auto shoot down the ship to maintain mechanoid's aggro on your base. After all this you just do the same thing I describe early.
Exploits tips:
This is a old exploit I used during the playthrough. I had a pawn that had an addiction and chemical damage to the kidney and I want to get rid of him. I drifted and arrested him and left the door "OPEN" in the prison cell so he could "ESCAPE" without giving my pawns the banish thought debuff.
Another exploit I found out makes the game way too easy. First, you research biofuel refining, microelectronics and transport pods. Second, you build comms console and transport pod. Third, you load a transport pod with things you don't need, it has to be somewhat valuable and lunch the transport pod to another faction for friendship points. Once you've given them enough stuff to become allies (80+), you've completed the third phase. The four phase is waiting of a raid to come. When it does, just use comms console to call for allies to help which cost 20 friendship points. You can do this up to 4 times in the same call if your friendship points are at 100. Now just watch while your allies do all the fighting for you. Your allies will easily out number any raid. Once the raid is over, rescue any down allies to get some friendship points back and collect all the garbage that was dropped during the raid fight, use it to repeat the third phase again. There you have a repeatable cycle to make the game easy. Side note, I tried to do this on a quest map by lunching a pawn with the materials to build a comms console and a charged battery and it didn't work.
That all I can think of right now. I plan to play a harder biome in my next run.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Pirate merchant has a slave for sale that is the same person I have locked up in the jailhouse.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I foresee a cooldown on a military aid option. :P
Quote from: spyderwebsc on July 26, 2018, 03:52:23 PM
Pirate merchant has a slave for sale that is the same person I have locked up in the jailhouse.
Pirate traders can buy your prisoners as well. Does that slave show up for you to purchase, or to sell?
Quote from: Lanilor on July 26, 2018, 01:07:54 PM
- There is too less variance in plants. For example corn is pretty much useless now. It grows really long so an increased risk of blight/fire/whatever to not be able to harvest it and if has even a bit less yield than rice (with factored grow time). The fact that it can be eaten raw and stays longer fresh is not that impactful at all.
Strawberries have a too high rist of food poisoning, so that even the reason to grow them when you have no cook or no time for cooking is too risky.
Even rice has not much benefit compared to patatoes on normal soil. It's just that it is faster and has a minimal highter yield to grow time. Rice is good in hydroponics of cause, but that is something highly biome dependent.
Apart from potatoes everything has the same fertility requirements and sensitivity. There is potential for more variation and it's not that difficult for a new player to understand if that is the reason to simplify it. Like a plant that only grows on rich soil but has good yield, so people may take the risk an either build a base near a rich soil patch to secure it (but that area may have other downsides (like less natural protection)) or plant it far away and risk raider burning or animals eating it or need to build extra protection. Potatoes could be less effective on normal soil than rice. Berries should be useful too. Something to take the risk of food poisoning or no poisoning at all.
Has anyone ever planted dandelions? In theory I could plant them on sand for animals, but I can't create a growing zone on sand, so not possible. And otherwise haygrass is way more effective than dandelions as animal food. Or even kibble of cause.
1)
100% soil based on the latest state ( harvest yield / grow time)
rice (2) > Corn (1.9469) > Potatoes (1.89655)
2)
potato = gravel soil
rice = short grow time / High efficiency. standard.
corn = A small number of plant pawns. Useful. Less hands-on. When you run an extra large farm use. Of course it's all inside the wall.
Strawberries= Very useful for one-person start. In recent 1.0, I had a lot of Eat wild berries and strawberries in my naked staring It is not a big problem., the Meal I cooked with low cooking stats is more severe food poison.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival Struggle: Permadeath
Biome: Temperate Forest
Hours played in the last 3 days: 7
A few bugs/things I have noticed recently:
- Sappers often have at least one person with EMP grenades. If they were launching an open assault it might make sense to have them to deal with turrets, but for sappers they don't do much (in my case).
- Sappers waiting for their friends to break down walls with grenades sometimes wander into the grenades and get hurt.
- Sappers often choose a more difficult path through mineable rocks rather than a shorter path through built walls immediately adjacent to their chosen path.
- Herbivorous animals do not consume hay brought along while in caravans and hay does not increase the "days of food" count.
- When starting on a map with a huge river and caves, hives spawned in the river. I also got a "Failed to find all necessary river flow data" error from the dev console when generating the map.
- Sometimes when a pawn collapses of exhaustion they will immediately wake back up.
- When a pawn is suddenly able to walk while in the middle of being kidnapped, the kidnapper will continue on without them, ignoring them, as if nothing happened.
Some balancing things:
- Sniper turrets are so accurate and powerful that they feel overpowered. Often, all it takes is one shot to kill or down someone. If you have one or more positioned over a long open swathe of slow terrain (e.g. marsh) they are perhaps too effective.
- Lancers on the whole are incredibly vulnerable these days. All it takes to take one down is one person with decent melee skills and a shield belt. You could probably avert the issue just by making mechanoid invasions always a mix between lancers and scythers and never only lancers.
- When a mechanoid drop invasion "goes haywire" and pods drop all over the place, it leaves the mechanoids vulnerable and makes them incredibly easy to deal with as they get strung out across the map.
- Prisoner recruiting seems to happen way, way too fast compared to B18 and earlier. I am getting a lot of prisoners with really low recruit difficulty. I imagined you lowered recruit difficulty value across the board to compensate for introducing resistance, but I think you may have gone too far.
Storyteller: cass
Difficulty: ext
Biome: bor for
Hours played in the last 3 days: like 10
Quote from: Tynan on July 26, 2018, 08:55:17 AM
I'm not sure I understand the complaint. Excellent is still the same quality as it always was, and MW/LG are both "higher" than they were before. All that was removed was some "steps" to a ladder which were already very close together - the ladder is taller than before.
The stats ladder might be the same or taller but the game time ladder is shorter. Right now you can get good/excellent in first year, and that's the end of it until inspirations. Before pushing to excellent and MW was something available with 10+ builders later on. Syrchalis suggestion of moving MW to regular craftable but rare would be a good step.
I think recruiting is actually too easy currently. Before you might have to sustain 5 prisoners with pretty low % chances and it was an interesting decision whether to keep or release harder ones as your colony needs fluctuated. Now you know pretty precisely how long it will take since the RNG roll at the end is usually high chance. Perhaps it would be good to move some of the resistance back into the RNG.
Quote from: zizard on July 26, 2018, 04:18:39 PM
Storyteller: cass
Difficulty: ext
Biome: bor for
Hours played in the last 3 days: like 10
Quote from: Tynan on July 26, 2018, 08:55:17 AM
I'm not sure I understand the complaint. Excellent is still the same quality as it always was, and MW/LG are both "higher" than they were before. All that was removed was some "steps" to a ladder which were already very close together - the ladder is taller than before.
The stats ladder might be the same or taller but the game time ladder is shorter. Right now you can get good/excellent in first year, and that's the end of it until inspirations. Before pushing to excellent and MW was something available with 10+ builders later on. Syrchalis suggestion of moving MW to regular craftable but rare would be a good step.
I think recruiting is actually too easy currently. Before you might have to sustain 5 prisoners with pretty low % chances and it was an interesting decision whether to keep or release harder ones as your colony needs fluctuated. Now you know pretty precisely how long it will take since the RNG roll at the end is usually high chance. Perhaps it would be good to move some of the resistance back into the RNG.
You could always get good/excellent in the first year. That hasn't changed.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest
Hours played in the last 3 days: 12-15 hours
Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 26, 2018, 01:47:24 PM
Even if you restrict your animals to a zone, they'll still occasionally consume some random thing - whether it be a meal instead of zone-microed kibble, or beer, or luciferium. The only real fixes to these problems are either to wall in your drugs completely, or not have animals in the first place.
That being said, the random eating is infrequent enough that you don't really notice it until you get over 50 or so animals.
I went back to the game this evening to take a look. I gave up after screen capturing the addiction images last night.
Out of 7 dogs, 4 still considered puppies, 5 have either a large or massive tolerance for alcohol and one is addicted to luciferium. 6 out of 7 dogs I let run wild are now addicts.
Random eating is not infrequent, even when getting to kibble has always been an easy option for the dogs. It's frequent and it's frustrating to find that most of your dogs are addicted to something.
I typically do set pretty strict boundaries for my dogs, but that makes using them for hauling anything and everything a little more difficult, so in the spirit of testing, I let them run loose, why set a new area for them, lets see how they do!
Clearly, it's just a newbie trap, hahaha, now all your dogs are drug addicts, you fool! (Though for someone with over 1000 hours into this game, you'd think I'd know better ...)
As I've said before, I love the game. The only things I'm posting in this thread now are things I find frustrating. Things that make me turn off the game and walk away, and this was one of them.
And for this issue, I've created a nice zone using the invert zone option, making sure they can't get at the beer and can go nowhere near the drugs but can still get at everything else on the map. No more luciferium dogs. Doesn't mean I agree with the game's default of letting them graze on drugs in the first place ... I leave food and other items all over my house. My shepherd wouldn't dare touch it. She eats her food, I eat the rest. :)
Storyteller: randy
Difficulty: Survival Struggle: Permadeath
Biome: Temperate swamp
Hours played in the last 3 days: i have no idea how to even find that out
it seems to me that catatonic downing appears way more much often and its super annoying. especially when u have a small colony...
Quote from: EdgarDruin on July 26, 2018, 06:10:42 PM
Doesn't mean I agree with the game's default of letting them graze on drugs in the first place ... I leave food and other items all over my house. My shepherd wouldn't dare touch it. She eats her food, I eat the rest. :)
Sounds like you have a smart dog. My dog eats random trash off of the floor and I have to pull it out of her mouth sometimes; who's to say dogs in Rimworld wouldn't randomly eat some luciferium that's lying around?
One reason item progression feels very flat is that in old beta builds, durability mattered for the effectiveness of the item
So there was a micro-progression within items of the same quality, from a somewhat damaged good weapon from a raider, to a full health item you manufactured. Usually it was hard to get a full health item from a raider, so buying and making them was encouraged.
Now you capture a good weapon from a raider and there is no need to manufacture it.
The old system had flaws, namely it was difficult to compare items because you had to take into account item type, condition and quality, and the in game stats were not always clear. But it felt much more like a simulation, where items had real characteristics, and there were tradeoffs involved in scavenging from the dead.
Current system is very gamey, with a small number of fixed improvements, which often just drop off raiders.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temp forest (30 growdays)
Hours played in the last 3 days: probably around 5
Agreed. I also feel that removing item's intergrity affecting the stats wasn't a good move. You had a solid reason to craft your own weapons, cause pirates usually brought crap. Now you don't really have to, since even good AR with 3% left on it is enough. Add to that pirates usually having normal or better weapons and you don't really feel the need to go for your own weapon manufacture process at all. Unless you wanna use that creative inspiration to get a cheat lance.
Upd: Sorry, will do.
Madman please post this info, thanks.
Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome:
Hours played in the last 3 days:
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer)
Hours played in the last 3 days: ~30+
Gameplay Notes:
The game last night/this morning, without putting too fine a point on it, was an absolute shitstorm. I had a few normal raids, periodically...nothing particularly noteworthy.
Then the Psychic Ship landed.
In a 48-hour in-game timeframe while preparing to attack the ship, the following events occured to my 9 colonists:
-A bonded colony animal (an Arctic Wolf) goes manhunter after a Psychic Pulse, injuring 1 colonist, and sustaining near-fatal injuries itself.
-A colony prisoner from an earlier raid goes into a Berserk Rage, resulting in 2 colonist and 2 prisoner injuries
-A colonist has a Mental Break – Corpse Obsession, which prevents him from joining the fight.
-Another colonist has a Mental Break - Ambrosia Binge, which prevents him, too, from joining the fight.
-Another colonist gets food poisoning
-A Turkey goes manhunter
The Psychic Ship is attacked from heavy cover, releasing 2 Melees, 2 Lancers, and 1 Heavy Charge Blaster Centipede.
-During the fighting, yet another colonist has a Mental Break - Berserk Rage, also preventing him from fighting...from fighting the Mechs, that is. Not from bashing the shit out of my somewhat desperate and banged-up remaining 6 colonists.
I destroy the Mechs, and kill the ship. No savescumming, no deaths: 3 imminent deaths, another 3 wounded, but fortunately no amputated limbs.
Less than 12 game hours after the ship is killed?
A Pirate Siege hits almost simultaneously with a Cold Snap that kills off the majority of my food supply, hay supply and Devilstrand.
Good times. :)
A note on traps, which I had a chance to fully deploy against a later all-Melee Mech raid: they're fairly powerful, but I'm really not planning on using anything but wood to build them for quite some time. My stone production is precarious at the moment, and I can't afford the hit.
Knowing that a triggered trap will yield no salvageable resources greatly influences this decision, both now and ostensibly later in the game...even when I can afford to use more valuable materials. Of course, choosing to build anything out of highly flammable material has some serious drawbacks...which I know full well that Inferno Cannons and Incediary Launchers are going to exploit.
Some graphs:
(https://i.imgur.com/6ziYtGZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mFqJEM5.jpg)
Quote from: A RANG MA on July 26, 2018, 06:19:19 PM
Sounds like you have a smart dog. My dog eats random trash off of the floor and I have to pull it out of her mouth sometimes; who's to say dogs in Rimworld wouldn't randomly eat some luciferium that's lying around?
Other than the diet section on the stats tab for the dog?
Diet: Vegetables, raw meat, corpses, seeds, animal products, meals, processed foods, liquor (I still don't understand how they get the cap off, but ok, my bad I guess), kibble.
Nothing about drugs.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 26, 2018, 06:45:42 PM
Add to that pirates usually having normal or better weapons and you don't really feel the need to go for your own weapon manufacture process at all.
I found it useful early on to make some more bolt action rifles. Raiders often only come with pistols at that point
Quote from: Serenity on July 26, 2018, 08:01:59 PM
Quote from: Madman666 on July 26, 2018, 06:45:42 PM
Add to that pirates usually having normal or better weapons and you don't really feel the need to go for your own weapon manufacture process at all.
I found it useful early on to make some more bolt action rifles. Raiders often only come with pistols at that point
One of my first raids donated 5 sniper rifles and 5 flak vests. Actually smelted some for wealth control.
Quote from: spyderwebsc on July 26, 2018, 03:52:23 PM
Pirate merchant has a slave for sale that is the same person I have locked up in the jailhouse.
Hah! Well I'll be darned -- That is one gutsy Pirate to sell you your own slave ;D
Colonist: "Well, I do need some additional strong backs around here."
Pirate: [Points to your prison] "I can cut you a real deal on one of my slaves
temporarily housed in your prison. Colonist: "What? Say again."
Pirate: "Yep, snuck him in there this morning. You're welcome."
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: "Survival Struggle", permadeath
Biome: Temperate Forest (50/60 nominal growing days, feels like year-round)
Hours played in the last 3 days: 8-ish?
Tribal start, animal swarm strategy. 6th of Aprimay, 5502
I'll likely post some animal-related feedback later (preview: Alpacas correctly OP on warm, grassy biomes), but I wanted to note a most unusual happening:
Breixo - an abrasive misogynist - and Red - a bloodlusting psychopath woman - are two of my best growers. They hate each other so much that they had a social fight three days in a row. To deal with this, I offset their sleeping schedules so they aren't awake at the same time as much. I am seriously considering drawing a line down my growing zones to keep them apart more. If that doesn't solve the problem, I might amputate Red's ears to stop her from hearing the insults.
This is... um... awesome? A non-combat, non-food-related colony management challenge that isn't solved by generic mood buffs! Shouldn't this be much more common? I've never encountered this before in 400+ hours of playing.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough, permadeath
Biome: Temperate Forest (close to Boreal, so on the cold side)
Hours played in the last 3 days: ~ 16? Way too much :)
Played the new mission where you start with nothing.
I didn't discover any bugs, but here's some feedback, I'm very close to being able to construct a ship
1. Still an awesome game, enjoying it! :)
2. I'm using wood traps, they do serious damage and it's on temperate forest wood is in abundance. Just a bit of hauling here and there. Stock up plenty in case of a Volcanic winter.
I placed about 10 traps in a small maze, and they kill just about everything Randy throws at the entrance. Only a centipede managed to get through but was reasonably quickly dealt with
3. I had an infestation and a parachute raid, but since raid size on Rough is pretty small (kinda miss the big raids...), these were easily dealt with. This required old fashioned man to man/insect combat, which is fun.
4. Randy Rough is actually a bit too easy for me (played for about 4 years), and I should probably move to the next level. I have decent Rimwold skills (500+ hours), but am by no means an expert. I would expect to struggle sometimes at Rough, but I didn't. No one died, aside from banishing a few pawns that I really couldn't use. I wouldn't mind a slight increase of difficulty, but OK I can notch it up.
5. I'm not sure if I like the trap changes - trap costs aren't really a problem and they are still pretty awesome. The costs feel unrealistic, though. Perhaps it would be better to increase the lenght of setting the trap significantly - in real life setting a trap takes quite a bit of time. Then there's not always time to prepare properly, and some raids need dealt with differtly?
6. As much as I like Rimworld, I'm not too keen on the whole Caravan game. It takes a lot of time and effort, and rewards are not always very nice. Also the 'sell me {inserts something you definately don't have or can easily get} for xxx' feels iffy as mission. I prefer to build my Colony and fight whatever the storyteller throws at me. But maybe other people love Caravans, I don't know.
Quote from: trezor on July 26, 2018, 09:19:51 PM
6. As much as I like Rimworld, I'm not too keen on the whole Caravan game. It takes a lot of time and effort, and rewards are not always very nice. Also the 'sell me {inserts something you definately don't have or can easily get} for xxx' feels iffy as mission. I prefer to build my Colony and fight whatever the storyteller throws at me. But maybe other people love Caravans, I don't know.
Me. Although I understand your point. Currently I don't do many quests. There are less and they aren't that great or in a bad accessable spot. Still waiting to get a trade offer.
I often settle in an open area, since I prefer caravaning and don't care for a mountain base, bonus for some roads nearby. Caravaning in a mountaneous region is pain, but I think it's valid from a balancing perspective.
My current game (tribal) is mostly hunting and trading that stuff for equipment. My only crafter got a bullet in the brain and is nearly useless and research is slow, so trading is the way to go for me. I often have one colonist on the world map checking villages for useful stuff or selling goods. I enjoy it quite a bit, although there could be more stuff to do on the world map (even smaller things). Pretty sure I already wrote that some time before.
Starting a caravan after a raid also lowers the chance of getting attacked while important colonists are away. Not completely reliable of cause. A few ingame days ago I got a siege when 2 (of 6) colonists were on a big trade. Luckily my one with a rifle hit some good bullets at first and then a few raiders chased and downed my boomalope, so I could win without loosing a pawn. They flew right into my caravan just arriving with a fresh bought minigun.
Edit:
I currently get a lot inspirations by having pretty high mood. I like that it seems to effect that a lot. Sadly it's just walking and shooting. Could be worse of cause, but still hoping for work frenzy atm.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless, commitment, naked
Biome: Temperate Forest
Hours played in the last 3 days: This is a new start on the current patch, an hour or so.
Silly/trivial bug. My colonist is playing horseshoes through a closed door (she did this immediately after hauling some meat from a drop pod to the hopper behind her, so it's possible that the door hadn't quite closed behind her at the moment she decided to play.)
Playing naked with a pawn unable to care or cook makes for quite an amusing start. Randy's been dropping colonists in escape pods to get the colony started, but she can't actually treat them, so they just bleed out (but at least now she's not naked...) She hasn't even got enough crafting skill to make a bow, or growing to grow berries... So I built a nutrient paste dispensor for the first time since the single-digit alphas. The one real upside to this pawn though, is she has evel 11 animal skill, so training a small herd of alpaca has made it possible to survive the manhunters and raids (although she can't even heal the alpacas...)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Medium, Commitment mode
Biome: Desert
Hours played in the last 3 days: Probably only about 4
Naked brutality start in the desert, thought I'd try a bunch of these new game mechanics in an area I don't normally play. Tamed a second colonist (Wild Man event), and shortly after, my first colonist got the plague. I had no medicine, assumed it was a death sentence, got him to dig his own grave and thought I'd work him until death. Then I changed my mind and decided to try to treat him anyway. No medicine, treated by a level 1 doctor, rested in a poor steel bed, and he lived.
To share my experience: I'm used to plague being a death sentence in such a bad situation, and that made it impactful. This thread has 260 pages and I'm not keen on reading through it to see if plague took a nerf haha, but in my opinion I'd prefer it if the deadly event was a bit more, you know, deadly.
Maybe plague on a harder difficulty would have killed poor Lowell, but still, given the situation I think plague was too weak.
Overall though I'm loving these new updates, thanks for giving me a great game to spend more time on while I headbutt my desk trying to work out how to play Dwarf Fortress :)
In retrospect, I should have prioritized building the shell storage earlier. But in any case, who punches live bombs because they're angry ::)
Edit: I like how brica was exploded so hard there is no corpse or X out colonist.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Sorry but does anyone know the rest effectiveness and immunity gain for sleeping on the floor? Was wondering if sleeping on the floor or bad furniture is better.
Or perhaps we can add the stats in the description itself?
It's better to sleep on an awful bed. An awful bedroll I'm not sure, though.
Storyteller: Cassandra/Phoebe, basebuilder.
Biome: temperate forest
Hours played: yesterday 4+ (took a day off....)
They keep sending pawns all the time, I'm on 20+ pawns (only 2 deaths, both heart attacks...), and I'm still getting the -refugee chased-, -prisoner quest-, -wanderer joins- events. I have 4 stoves and 6 cooks and most of the daytime is spent hunting. I don't even strategize anymore, I place them all in a circle and 20+ pawns with assault riffles pretty much one-shoot everything. :) I think I'm going to up the difficulty a bit to see how they'll fare then.
Trap changes are OK, you don't have to manually rebuild them.
Also, the game keeps sending meat via cargo pods every time my freezers go empty. :) Don't know if this is a happy coincidence...
Animal moving zones instantly is great, haven't lost a pig ever since! Megasloths are killing machines, the only way to hunt them is to draft-hunt.
EDIT: I did it. I finally caved in. Got 2x cats join (10 cats per join!!!) and I slaughtered them both times for food. Slaughtered female huskies that joined. I have no more morals...
Quote from: podium86 on July 27, 2018, 12:57:39 AM
Sorry but does anyone know the rest effectiveness and immunity gain for sleeping on the floor? Was wondering if sleeping on the floor or bad furniture is better.
Or perhaps we can add the stats in the description itself?
I just did a dev mode test and it looks like 0.8 for a sleeping spot. Should definitely be labelled.
Quote from: mastertea on July 26, 2018, 03:48:08 PM
Used a nutrient paste dispenser through most of the game. NPD completely eliminates the chance of food poisoning, doesn't need a pawn with good cooking skills which frees up an extra worker. It also cost less food to make meals. NPD needs to be nerfed or changes to how food poison works because it happens way to often even with sterile tiled kitchen and a high level cook.
Didnt understand this complains about food poisoning. Just a clean kitchen is good enough to almost eliminate poisoning incidents. For me, poisoning is only very early game issue, while you dont have dedicated cleaner and decent cook. And +5 mood from fine meals is much better than -4 from NPD.
New build is up!
Thank you for the ongoing feedback everyone - especially to those who posted play stories and graphs. These kinds of things are essential. Please do keep it coming! I am reading everything and taking notes; if something isn't being addressed it doesn't mean we don't care, it may be on our work queue over here already.
As always, the change log is here for reference but please focus your comments on this thread on the experiences you've had playing the latest build only. Please avoid posting theoretical analysis based on patch notes or reading game data files in this thread (other threads are of course fine).
When you do post feedback please begin your post with this info:
Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome:
Commitment mode: (yes/no)
Hours played in the last 2 days:
Complete mod list:
Many thanks.
Also there's some art in this build, but it's not fixed or anything and may be refined further.
----
Integrated some new art from larSyn, still more to do. You can tell the stack size of more items now.
Sniper turret fires slower but does more damage/AP. Rename to uranium slug turret.
Chemical interest/fascination pawns won't have a random binge break if they've got any satisfied drug need.
Armor quality rating has more impact.
Orbital bulk traders always have advanced components.
Food poisoning filth threshold is a bit more forgiving.
Remove bionics negative thoughts for non-body purist. Sorry Jensen.
Storyteller generation of traders (orbital and ground) and several other incident types refactored to be much more consistent.
Building traps no longer expands the home area.
Reworked prisoner interaction frequency so there's no need to micro to optimize it.
Added minimum time between mental break recovery and next mental break.
Misc other balance and fixes.
Quote from: Tynan on July 27, 2018, 04:06:30 AM
New build is up!
New med icons in pawn health tab looks weird. Need a single ones instead of multiple.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I'm sorry to say, but some of new arts look bad.
Silver looks like some kind of cocoon bug, and meats are too bright and blurry.
meat looks like red lego bricks.. not a fan
edit: maybe a steak look would be more fitting? idk not an artist lol
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Survival Struggle
Biome: Temperate forest
Commitment mode: No
Hours played in the last 2 days: Approx 10
Complete mod list: No mods
Colony 22 years in, things more or less pretty smooth minus the occasional bumps in the road expected with how the story goes (deaths, etc). I've felt the difficulty I've been playing on has been pretty balanced more or less, and anything significant so far has already been brought up by other posters or addressed in the changes. I've noticed raids have changed in strength a bit since previous update. Have only had one since so can't say if its a definitive trend or not, but almost all my pirate raids were usually around 80 strong, last one was down to 55 which is the weakest I've seen in a long time. They were mostly melee fighters so maybe that's intentional by the design, so disregard if so.
I remember seeing a comment asking for feedback about the balance with the autocannon turrets. I'll say as far as my colony and in game experience with them (colony has probably had them for about 10 years in game time) they seem overall pretty balanced to me. I have a large perimeter of them around my base, mixing autocannon pairs that are spaced to cover each other when swarmed as well as positioned sniper turrets to help take out enemies before they can close on the auto cannon turrets. I feel the balance in my experience has been good because though they do a great job in thinning out the raids to a more manageable amount (especially when we are out numbered 4, 5 or 6 to 1), a lot of them always inevitably get overrun and taken out, either because there are just too many fighters for them to take out at once, or they run empty and get swarmed. I particularly like the sniper turret as it honestly feels more like a mounted anti tank cannon to me, especially with range and damage, and does great work on centipedes. Lancers do a good job of staying out of their range though so I still have to send fighters out to close with and destroy them, so the sniper turret doesn't come across as an unstoppable juggernaut, which obviously it shouldn't. Overall range and everything else feels right to me.
I've noticed a few issues with combat over time though in particular with drafting pawns and giving manual orders to attack. Mainly, if a melee enemy closes with a ranged pawn that has been directed to fire at them, once they are in melee range and are attacking the pawn, the pawn just stands there taking each of the hits. I have to either undraft and let them automatically defend them self (all are set to automatically engage), or when still drafted manually re issue the attack order at which they will engage. I've noticed if when drafted that they choose the target them self without me picking it they will properly transition to melee though. My guess in the code is that they've been ordered to *fire* on the enemy (as opposed to melee attacking them) and that since they are now at melee range and can no longer fire but still have the order to do, they therefore do nothing since it conflicts with what they were ordered. Whether this is the case I'm not qualified to say, but just my guess based on my observations.
Regarding bumping the orbital traders to 30k silver, I'm guessing that's one of the temporary changes to test the boundaries, but for me it definitely makes it OP with obtaining wealth. I usually manufacture a ton of yayo to sell so everytime a trader comes by I usually have enough to pay for everything I want from them with just yayo and then clean them out of their silver with the rest of it. Now I'm able to buy 5-10k worth of goods off them and still clean them out for 30k with just selling items (besides just yayo, like artwork and leathers and such). Even if I'm cleaned out of products to sell (i.e back to back orbital traders) I have more than enough wealth to buy every last thing I want from them. If there's any future intent of having the orbital traders have among the highest amount of silver out of all the trader types, I'd probably recommend making them have around 5k. The previous amounts were good since I could buy what I wanted and clean them out, but I still had a lot of products sitting around taking up space needing to be sold so it encouraged me to form caravans to visit the outlying faction bases to sell them my stuff instead of never having to leave my base (though I still do for item quests and such).
Fun note, the one of the muffalos the colony obtained early on as a pack animal is currently in his early 30's, despite only being supposed to have a life span of about 15 years. He's been through a lot, about four heart attacks, and two insect attacks that nearly killed him each time, but despite that as well as having a bad back and dementia, he keep on trucking. Curious to see how long he's going to make it.
On an unrelated note, as an actual medic I really enjoy the injury system in this game with body parts and types of injuries sustainable and their effects on the pawns. I feel it's a great balance between a form of being realistic and believable, but also not getting over complicated for game play reasons. It can't be as real as possible and it shouldn't anyway. Lose an entire leg in real life and assuming the femoral artery doesn't spasm and temporarily constrict you have about 3 minutes before you exsanguinate on the average person. Obviously 3 minutes in game translates to a fraction of a second in real time, so you would essentially lose pawns nearly instantly if it was realistically translated. Point overall though being that I think you guys have struck a great balance between believability and making the proper concessions for gameplay purposes in the right places. Kudos to you.
Anything else significant I encounter I'll pass along, graphs attached in case you're interested.
[attachment deleted due to age]
No more everyone being a Jensen? Seriously?! Oh a happy day! Very good news.
_____________________
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temp. forest (30 growdays)
Commitment mode: hell no
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8
Complete mod list: empty for now
Quote from: Mehni on July 26, 2018, 06:16:11 AM
Anyone else getting a crapton of "Undergrounders"? I used to be happy seeing them but now not so much. Cabin fever isn't as bad as before so the trait impact doesn't warrant its commonality. Or vice versa.
I love getting them when I'm playing a permanent Toxic Fallout map. Can't really send colonists out very often into the fallout otherwise they'll get sick. I've also noticed that the trait seems to sync up with some childhood backstories.
Maybe it could be a trait which generates at a rate depending on the planet conditions - e.g. very hot or very cold planets, you want colonists to spend most of their time indoors where you have cooling or heating to normalise the temperature. Permanent Toxic Fallout I've mentioned.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer)
Hours played in the last 3 days: ~30+
Gameplay Notes for v. 1974
-Got 8 of my 9 pawns caught completely out in the open for a 20-strong Lynx Manhunter pack. For the first time ever, I used an Animal Meat Shield, after getting fully wiped twice. I'm happy to say: the Meat Shield is everything it's cracked up to be. No friendly animal deaths, a couple of moderately wounded colonists, and 20 dead Lynxes.
-I've noticed that World Quest Events have dropped off to literally zero in the last 12-14 hours of gameplay. During the early game, there were probably between 4-5 running simultaneously. This is valid up until this morning's 1977 build.
-I had two Mech Raids drop through my base tonight: the first was 3 Lancers, the second was 4 Lancers. At close quarters, Lancers are much easier to deal with than at medium or longer range. I was able to mobilize all 9 of my colonists, and grab some EMP's, and they were downed very quickly; zero injuries on the first raid, and the second raid resulted in only light bruises to 2 of my colonists.
-Had a chance to check out the new 1977 graphics; at the risk of sounding unappreciative of the effort that goes into creating and implementing the art (which I'm most certainly not), I prefer literally every graphic from B18 over 1.0. I think the graphics from B18 fit the motif of the game perfectly.
If all else stays, I'd only ask that you bring back the graphics from B18 for regular components...and the skeletons, both animal and human. Especially the skeletons. :)
Some graphs from tonight's gameplay:
(https://i.imgur.com/S2QWmmK.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/q9yI69a.png)
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome: Temperate forest
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: 16
Complete mod list: just vanilla for bug hunting, more in the post
Started a fresh run to hunt down some mod bugs with caravans. All of my previous games have ended with relocating the colony and getting a GUI error message:
"GUI Error: You are pushing more GUIClips than you are popping." The game can't be continued from that, so it's always a new game for me.
So, today, I decided to do bug hunting and started a vanilla game. Less than a week in, got an error.
(https://i.imgur.com/qIvJ39k.jpg)
P.S. I like the new art; stacks look great in warehouses and components seem much more sensible now.
New meat cubes looks very strange, I agree with the steak suggestion. Silver looks a little bit blurry. Do we really need separate art for multiple-item stacks? A single icon with a number worked great for me so far.
Textures: I'm only bringing it up since it's going in a direction I don't like.
Silver, Insect meat, eggs look too similar to me.
I don't like the look on most items when they're stacked.
Things like leather/wood/plasteel/neutroamine are fine. But stacking stuff like meals and meds - reusing the same texture just looks off. Still don't care for the steel when stacked. I'd rather stick to one image type of thing. Yayo, and chocolate for example. Another example would be chemfuel; I wouldn't want to see multiple jugs on one tile, but rather it progress to something like larger jug into barrel instead.
Meats, maybe you could package them? Meals, display em in small trayrack when fully stacked? Idk
Components man, gonna take some time to adjust lol. They're not bad, just preferred the old ones.
Anyways, know it'll all look good when it's done. Still waiting on my rotatable solar panels hehe 😏
Thanks for the great feedback HomelessAbe, Teleblaster.
Athimus I'm pretty sure it's a known bug, we'll get to fixing it soonish I hope.
Storyteller: cas
Difficulty: ext
Biome: bor for
Commitment mode: mega savescum casual mode
Hours played in the last 2 days: like 8?
Complete mod list:
hugslib
minify everything
no forced slowdown
replace stuff
IMPORTANT MODS BEGIN HERE:
show hair with hats
rimnge
gloomy hair
kantai collection hair styles
lovely hair style
rimhair
lolidrop's hairshop
Realised I haven't posted any graphs yet so decided to be useful for once and show people what a god player's graphs look like. Pretty easy so far. As usual for boreal it's convenient to make a greenhouse for the first winter. Cold biomes are obviously slower but you can be lazier with hauling and yucky brown corpses don't turn up as often. Pretty sure refinery was the first tech. Caravans are a PITA due to -20 zero recreation. Pausing caravans for recreation doesn't seem like a good deal. I'd rather they mental break and get +40 catharsis for a while. Even if it were effective, it's not fun to micro anyway. Bridges are fun to mess around with. Currently slowly digging into the mountain to make my invulnerable ultra killbox base. I caught a wimp, so maybe I will send him to punch moose to drop my raid score.
Latest major threat was a poison ship, which was 2 cent 2 lancer 2 scyther. Used about 10 wood traps to kill the smol mechs and kited the centipedes around for half a real life hour. Guess I could have punched it but I cbf getting shield belts yet and walking up to them with 50% ms from snow isn't safe. Reminded me that I need to get a killbox up to save sanity. One of the first raids I got donated me 5 sniper rifles, 2 of which I immediately melted for wealth control. Otherwise it would have been even more tedious. If you get lucky, a lot of raids neutralise each other or run into caravans. An early tribal raid walked right into a caravan. The sniper raid came shortly after a psychic ship drop and I obviously made them kill each other. This made the siege really trivial by sniping them for a few ingame hours. So I haven't even had to bust out the micro god yet.
In the picture, I think the sharp raid points drop corresponds to a patch. Early minstrel means mood is practically solved for the rest of the game. Disappointed that wool offers so little extra insulation compared to cloth. Might as well be shaving money from my muffs, since it's all going to be sold guaranteed. BTW could we please get purple alpacas? Also I like the leather art, it's grown on me. Always on the lookout for more cute hair mods. Would like more cute hair in vanilla. One of my first memories of the game was being traumatised by ugly hair on girls.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Random thought, and I'm sure you already considered it, but what about adding some sort of basic telemetry to the Dev builds, so you'd get much more info/graphs/data about people's games and balance than the few faithful who post their saves every build, with the N so low, to get the bigger picture?
Gamers don't respond to that stuff very well if done wrong, but just a 'we send a list of stats of your colony when you're exiting the game to get a feel for the numbers', only enabled in dev builds, with a large disclaimer/opt out button on the main screen shouldn't rustle too many people's jimmies I don't think.
Now that I think about it, it's probably too much effort given how (relatively) close we are to 1.0 and it'd not be trivial to implement, but I just wanted to throw the idea out there.
Storyteller: Cass
Difficulty: Extreme
Biome: Boreal Forest 20/60
Commitment mode: Yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10 or more lol
Complete mod list: Prepare Carefully, SPS Hairstyle mod, Show hair underneath hats mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1180826364)
I started this colony like 3 days ago and am quitting now since my load got reverted to like a day behind and everyone is mad for some reason & my hair mods are messed up 8).
I posted earlier that the midgame was too easy and was pleased to see it adjusted in the patch notes just a few days later! Maybe the data agrees with my gut feeling. The midgame was still pretty easy this run, but lategame I really started getting hammered. Where my wealth started evening out at around day 300 was when I felt really smothered by the game. It was great. I built my base incorrectly and should have used more funneling - and the bugs from the northwest mountain where the river is were a huge nuisance. They spawned 3+ times. There should be an easy way to seal off mountains you've tunneled into or rivers like this one with overhead mountain. I remember I used to be able to place sleeping spots like I did, but I don't know if that still works. The way that I know does work is to go line by line with walls until it's completely filled. Boring!
I noticed I started getting a lot less quests when I was ready to go out on them, but I was given a ton early on when I wasn't ready to leave. On naked brutality, it's kind of hard to leave early on. I feel like quests should probably designed to spawn closer if you only have 3-4 colonists. I can't spare half my guys for a 6 day trip!
Overall, I think the difficulty is pretty good. There is a lot I could do better and I feel like the game is pretty fair. I am using deadfall traps a lot more but still thinking of ways to effectively use turrets. I think they could have a use inside the base to help with drops. I love IEDs; didn't they used to take a component? The way they are now is perfect. Being able to use the charge lance is great, too. Maybe the heavy charge lance could be a weapon that only shooters with a bionic arm can wield? I want to make my own centipedes.
Some thoughts:
- I should be able to put dead colonists in cryptosleep chambers until I get a mech serum instead of laying them out in an air conditioned tiny house. I had to watch as my dead colonist slowly started rotting due to solar flares every week! I can't haul them to the cryptosleep casket that I built. Is there a way to? Am I a noob?
- Currently to train my crafters, I will put them in the cold and have them churn out useless parkas and recurve bows. I feel like there should be a specific practice item. It could be something like whittling wood or making blankets. Construction has this with smoothing rocks. If I have spare time, I will send a constructor to smooth random rocks around my base because it's easier than having them build stuff with resources. Crafting needs something low-cost high-labor like this.
- It sucks having to click through area privileges for animals every time anything happens on the map. There should be a preset area like the home area for animals whenever a raid/infestation/manhunter/anything event happens. It could initially be set to the first building you make just so animals always attempt to get to safety whenever anything happens. Any time I forget to tell my animals to get to safety, I end up reloading. It's ok if a muffalo is grazing and raiders happen to spawn next to it - it sucks, but it's fair - but the vast majority of my animal deaths are from forgetting to restrict animals during any combat and them wandering into the fight or raiders telepathically hunting them down from across the map. The noise that queues when a raid happens could be your colonists automatically ringing bells to make the animals automatically go to base.
- Insect meat should probably be more nasty with a lower cook but better to eat with a better cook. -3 is nothing when I'm starving in the winter earlygame and I'd imagine my system-wide transcendental Gordon Ramsay would be able to make it taste better than my level 0 colonist that's never heard of cooking. It could be this way with all cooking, too - as it stands, any cook at level 6 is basically equal besides speed. By the time I can get a colonist from 3 to 6 or find one at 6, I can make a metal floored kitchen that almost never gives anyone food poisoning. I would make less hats out of 10+ cooking pawns with nothing else if I knew they could make a meal that gives +1-3 mood or +10% work speed or +100% joy, etc. Gourmand is as bad as pyromaniac at the moment because +4 cooking is negligible at best unless you're roleplaying with starter colonists.
- Speaking of traits, I think traits are awesome. Traits and the stories of pawns are literally the best part of the game to me. There should be way more. A fish trait that gives someone the tendency to recreation in water and love being wet. An OCD trait that makes colonists not like opening doors. An addictive gamer that sometimes goes on chess and horseshoe binges but gives people mood bonuses for playing with them. Indoorsman could give someone a mood bonus for sleeping under rock roofs/overhead mountains. Loud Snorer. Hallucinator. Religious. Pyromaniacs should get huge bonuses for equipping fire weapons and burning enemies. Etc. I feel like traits could be expanded on so much more to great benefit.
Anyway, here are my pictures. Like I said above, I felt like around day 300 was when it got REALLY difficult and it hasn't gotten any easier since. The hardest enemies by far are still the ranged scythers. All 3 of my colonist deaths were from getting oneshot by them. Ouch! Bugs IMO are perfect, as are melee scythers and centipedes. Tribals were always a breeze and sappers with nades were more annoying than anything else. Maybe tribals should do double damage pounding on walls or something.
https://imgur.com/a/6nB8u8G
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival Struggle
Biome: Boreal Forest (my favorite)
Commitment mode: no (hell no, not with how much my saves break)
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~6 hours
Complete mod list: <li>Core</li>
<li>HugsLib</li>
<li>ModSync RW</li>
<li>Giddy-up! Core</li>
<li>Giddy-up! Ride and Roll</li>
<li>Giddy-up! Battle Mounts</li>
<li>Giddy-up! Caravan</li>
<li>Rimworld Search Agency</li>
<li>Share The Load</li>
<li>EdB Prepare Carefully</li>
<li>Dubs Skylights - v1 test</li>
<li>Simple Bulk Drugs</li>
<li>Incident Person Stat</li>
<li>Numbers</li>
<li>Advanced Shield Belts</li>
<li>More Slaves [1.0]</li>
<li>Deep Ore Identifier</li>
<li>Simple Bulk Cooking</li>
<li>Recycle</li>
<li>[FSF] Encounter Map Resources</li>
<li>[FSF] No Bionics Uneasiness</li>
<li>[FSF] Vanilla Bionics Expansion</li>
<li>ED-EnhancedOptions</li>
<li>Syrchalis' Additions</li>
<li>Syrchalis' Terraform</li>
<li>Syrchalis' Patch</li>
<li>Work Tab</li>
<li>Where is my weapon?</li>
<li>TD Enhancement Pack</li>
<li>Spoons Hair Mod</li>
<li>Selectable Sculpture Graphic</li>
<li>Room Food</li>
<li>Rimsenal - Rimhair</li>
<li>[KV] Impassable Map Maker - 1.0</li>
<li>[KV] Trading Spot - 1.0</li>
<li>[KV] Show Hair With Hats or Hide All Hats - 1.0</li>
<li>[KV] RimFridge - 1.0</li>
<li>[KV] Change Dresser - 1.0</li>
<li>[KV] Weapon Storage - 1.0</li>
<li>[KV] ReColor Stockpile & Growing Zones - 1.0</li>
<li>[KV] Adjustable Trade Ships - 1.0</li>
<li>[XND] Stuffed Flaks</li>
<li>[XND] Profitable Weapons</li>
<li>[XND] Proper Shotguns</li>
<li>[XND] Visible Pants</li>
<li>Prepare Landing</li>
<li>Five Second Rule</li>
<li>Damage Indicators</li>
<li>Mending</li>
<li>A Dog Said...</li>
<li>Animals Logic</li>
<li>Tech Advancing</li>
<li>Research Tree</li>
<li>Simple Stockpile Presets</li>
<li>HousekeeperAssistanceCat</li>
<li>Nackblad Inc Rimhair</li>
<li>[Ods] Mens Hair (B18)</li>
<li>P-Music</li>
<li>[RF] Consolidated Traits [b18]</li>
<li>Fallout Traits</li>
<li>More Sculpture</li>
<li>More Toolboxes</li>
<li>More Furniture 1.0</li>
<li>Roof Support</li>
<li>Exotic++</li>
<li>Training Rack</li>
<li>Cut plants before building</li>
<li>NamesGalore</li>
<li>No Forced Slowdown</li>
<li>GeneTech</li>
<li>Meals On Wheels</li>
<li>ED-Embrasures</li>
<li>Orbital Animal Traders</li>
<li>But I have bionics...</li>
<li>DEVRIMMSqol</li>
<li>Wall Light</li>
<li>Healing Gun</li>
<li>PrisonerRansom</li>
<li>Crafting Quality Rebalanced</li>
<li>Map Reroll</li>
<li>Archotech Expanded</li>
<li>Replace Stuff</li>
<li>Nano Repair Tech</li>
<li>What Is My Purpose</li>
<li>Allow Tool</li>
<li>Use Bedrolls</li>
<li>Smart Medicine</li>
<li>BetterMiniMap</li>
<li>OgreStack</li>
<li>MinifyEverything</li>
<li>Pick Up And Haul</li>I'm lazy, so I just copied the modlist from my savefile.
I'm having a great time so far with everything in 1.0. Nearly all the changes that I disliked have been reverted or changed.
Most notably:
- Tree sowing way too long
- Early research too slow
- Mid/Late research too fast
- Not enough difference between quality levels
Currently I am looking at the new textures for items and I have very mixed feelings about them. For simplicity I'll just say which I like and which not with reasoning if there is one (sometimes it's just my personal preference).
Like:
- (Herbal) Medicine
- Textiles
- Neutroamine
- Metals (Plasteel, Uranium, Gold, Jade)
- (Advanced) Components
- Meals
- Insect Meat (looks reasonable why colonists don't like it)
Dislike:
- Silver (grey potatoes, CANT UNSEE)
- Animal Meat (blocks of watermelon)
Note: I don't have every item in my game of course, so it's not a complete list.
As for gameplay I started this playthrough with the lost tribe scenario - I added regular orbital traders and item stash/trade deal/outpost quests (around every 4 days) - I think having a lot of quests available is great, because you can cherry-pick the ones you like to do and the rest can expire. I also have carrying capacity multiplied by 400% - because I use a stack mod and this allows colonists to haul at least a third of a stack, while animals can haul even more.
Early game was difficult, as one would expect. Research felt really good however. I've carved myself into a mountain, and feel very safe, infestations happened often compared to other maps, but they weren't too difficult. It's the first mountain map I played in 1.0. By now I have electricity and am further into the research, just finished multi-analyzer. Trading feels pretty decent now, however I don't really know what to trade. Mostly it's small amounts of different stuff - usually leather and meat from hunting. Crafting anything to sell feels not worthwhile. I started some decent cotton production to make dusters, but it hasn't taken off yet and I don't know if it will be worth it, despite a really good crafter and negotiator.
Overall my best bet trading right now is beer. I barely ever made beer in B18, but in 1.0 it feels really good. It's a great mood boost, sells well to many trader types and the fermenting delay becomes rather irrelevant once you have it running. On the other hand I still find myself not making any smokeleaf ever and psychoid production died. In B18 I often used psychoid to make tea (for mood and selling the over-production). Flake and Yayo are some work and don't actually sell well. It's much smarter to buy neutroamine and make wake-up. Go-Juice sells at a loss, because Yayo and Wake-up together are worth more. So it's only really useful as a combat drug.
Two things bothering me right now: Lack of trade goods (specializing in an area, like drugs, tailoring, smithing and it paying off) and traits being so one-sided. I would much rather see every single trait have a positive and negative side. These shouldn't be equal. E.g. abrasive should still be a negative trait, with the negative side being more relevant than the positive. E.g. an abrasive person still insults/slights more, but they don't get a mood/relationship penalty from being insulted/slighted.
(http://puu.sh/B3ZLh/38e09f296a.png)(http://puu.sh/B3ZKd/59e74735b9.png)
Also in the modlist are 3 mods by me: Additions adds a few plants (coffee, bamboo, ironwood) from vegetable garden, replaces vanilla plant graphics (visual only) and adds stuffed batteries. Patch changes a few things, mainly room size stats (smaller rooms are acceptable), less market value for higher quality items, weapon cooldown affected by quality, removal of yield stat maximums, transport pod 500kg capacity, thrumbo shearable, muffalo body size way up (leather/meat down so overall it stays exactly the same), grass plantable, cactus sow work halved, bionic spine giving small manipulation bonus, anesthetic duration down, inspirations requiring 10 skill instead of 3. Terraform is just for testing so I don't have to use the dev tool if I want to terraform something... clicking every tile is really annoying.
Last build:
- Survival struggle - catatonic breakdowns every cca 10 minutes, 2-3 from 4 colonists are permanently in bed
Of all the new art, I also don't agree with how meat and silver look like.
I have no knowledge of anywhere in the west where meat is cut, stored and presented in the form of cubes, unless its some form of grinded meat, so for me and I guess also for the rest who don't like it, it looks unnatural. A drawing of a steak, or two steaks one on top of the other would be more representative. http://victorious.wikia.com/wiki/File:Cartoon-steak-006.jpg
Regarding silver, considering it is used as currency, it could be expected for inhabitants of the planet to have adopted a better way of transporting storing and counting silver, like ingots of different lengths, since balls are harder to store and measure. Also considering it is a metal, it would appeal more to the collective imagination to have it presented in the shape of an ingot, rather than the actual stones which can represent anything. A new player would never tell that the silver texture is a metal, at first sight it resembles rubble or something else. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdGI4fWqH2ZhKfPcX9Wy0PSUEwLuwRskKbNZvGPUDDfuvxktOM
I like the rest of the new textures, but it will take time to get used to the new components.
Regarding the new textures: Everything is pretty danm good!
I don't mind the Silver, since is also a mineable resource, it kinda makes sense to be this way. But I have to admit it is hard to find in the middle of a stockpile.
Except for Meats... I trully believe that meat was OK the way it was.
Quote from: Jibbles on July 27, 2018, 06:13:02 AM
Textures: I'm only bringing it up since it's going in a direction I don't like.
Silver, Insect meat, eggs look too similar to me.
I don't like the look on most items when they're stacked.
Things like leather/wood/plasteel/neutroamine are fine. But stacking stuff like meals and meds - reusing the same texture just looks off. Still don't care for the steel when stacked. I'd rather stick to one image type of thing. Yayo, and chocolate for example. Another example would be chemfuel; I wouldn't want to see multiple jugs on one tile, but rather it progress to something like larger jug into barrel instead.
Meats, maybe you could package them? Meals, display em in small trayrack when fully stacked? Idk
Components man, gonna take some time to adjust lol. They're not bad, just preferred the old ones.
I agree with most of this. I don't see why some textures needed to get reworked.
Bad:
- Old meat looked fine and clean, now it's more a mess. Weird legos, a shoe?, too bright red
- Old healroot the same. It looks like weeds that I need to remove from my fields. The old ones were quite iconic to rimworld and had something unique
- Stacked meals and meds like that don't fit the top-down style. And not everything needs different textures for stack sizes. It looses clearness, even more in larger stockpiles. Maybe 2 or max. 3 are ok.
- Components and abstract components had an abstract design but it was quite fitting. This looks like it ties to give a good representation of what components really are but fails. And no real need to do that anyway.
- Silver is potatoes. Not sure if this should be coins but even then it wouldn't fit to mine coins and I'm not sure if it fits the rimworld style. I liked the old 1.0 texture of it.
- Shells look too much like wood. Again one thing I don't see the reason to change it. The old ones were fine and clear.
Neutral:
- The new leather rolls in general are nice. But smaller step now with the thin roll looks a bit weird. I would maybe use the large roll for a normal stack and a full one with 2 or 3 rolls like wood, if it is even needed to have multiple again.
- Jelly doesn't really need stack icons too imo, but it's ok.
- Stack sizes for pemmican are ok I think but the full stack is too big and touches items on the next cell
Good:
- Tea is fine. I had no problem with the old one and I have no with this one.
- Neutroamine are nice to have more than 1 bottle there.
- Bigger cloth roll fits well
- Old change but I like the steel and I really like the plasteel
- Hyperweave, having a smaller texture for the small stack I have fits well.
----
Same tribal arid game as before.
No content mods. (I use Progress Renderer (map renderings), Simple Stockpile Presets (presets for filter settings) and Single Plant Texture Patch (patches rice mash count to 1))
--
Edit:
I just saw that the old meat could have different colors and I'm wondering why that was never used and removed. I often click through my meat stockpiles to see how much and what types I have. Slightly different colors for each type would make this a lot easier and gives an extra tough.
not a fan of the new component art but everything else is 10/10
Yeah, the meat is pretty horrible. I don't know why but the cubes from the large meat just stand out too much
I can live with the silver, but I agree that ingots would be the most logical choice
Components I can probably get used to, but for now it's a bit weird
The growing healroots are pretty nice
(sorry to post bugs here, but I'm not getting any feedback in the actual bug section so I can't tell if they're noticed).
I'm really enjoying the new caravan changes, everything about it really: the info, the depth, the ability to rest and tend and carry and all that jazz on the go. Pretty sure I have a bug here though:
Despite having a double bedroll (ofc I was too slow on the screenshot button, but it does in fact say "resting using 2 bed rolls"), Matt's comfort isn't going up, despite it having that arrow like it is, it has been at 0% for days now. The thing is Izolda's comfort is going up while resting, so she sure is benefiting from it. Also, they are married, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to share the bedroll; it's like the game reports them as both using it but they're not actually doing so.
UPDATE: so a day later, they switched: now Izolda is uncomfortable while Matt has the comfort, still says "using 2 bed rolls".
[attachment deleted due to age]
The new meat graphics are truly bizarre.
I noticed power armor was renamed "Marine Armor". What "marines" are on a RimWorld, there are no governments? I suggest naming the two items "Power Helmet" and "Power Armor".
Gifting colonists and prisoners to another faction does not give the usual mood debuffs for selling into slavery. Also the relation gain from this looks a bit too high.
Also jumping on the new sprite commentary train: the new meat sprites do look a little bit odd and generally way too bold. I personally liked the steak-like appearance of the old larger meat sprites, and the old lean meat sprites. The new 75-stack human meat sprites also look way too thick.
I like the new mortar shell, psychite tea and textile sprites, and I'm indifferent about the new silver sprite. The new component sprites seem a bit strange (not to the same degree as meat), and still prefer the old ones. Meal and medicine stacks being more visible are also pretty neat.
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on July 26, 2018, 08:53:40 PM
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: "Survival Struggle", permadeath
Biome: Temperate Forest (50/60 nominal growing days, feels like year-round)
Hours played in the last 3 days: 8-ish?
Tribal start, animal swarm strategy. 6th of Aprimay, 5502
I'll likely post some animal-related feedback later (preview: Alpacas correctly OP on warm, grassy biomes), but I wanted to note a most unusual happening:
Breixo - an abrasive misogynist - and Red - a bloodlusting psychopath woman - are two of my best growers. They hate each other so much that they had a social fight three days in a row. To deal with this, I offset their sleeping schedules so they aren't awake at the same time as much. I am seriously considering drawing a line down my growing zones to keep them apart more. If that doesn't solve the problem, I might amputate Red's ears to stop her from hearing the insults.
This is... um... awesome? A non-combat, non-food-related colony management challenge that isn't solved by generic mood buffs! Shouldn't this be much more common? I've never encountered this before in 400+ hours of playing.
+1
that new look of meat is ugly.... why change it?
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Scenario: Naked Brutality
Biome: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: (yes/no) no
Hours played in the last 2 days: 15-20 (unless you mean this colony, in which case it's brand new)
Complete mod list: none
Started with the pawn shown below. Immediately built a bow, hunted a deer and started to build a camp fire.
Mental Break: Sad Wander (reason: hungry)
Seriously? Already? Okay...
Waited for him to snap out of it. Built the camp fire, cooked a meal. Ate the meal. Started to cook a second meal.
Mental Break: Sad Wander (reason: naked)
WTF!?
Waited it out again. A couple of days later, after capturing first raider yet another mental break!
And again.
And again.
Tynan: I think your mental break cooldown might not be working! Maybe it's the Too Smart trait, but regardless these back to back to back mental breaks are a bit much.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Agreed with majority that meat and silver textures are just blergh. I won't restate the reasoning as others have summed them up quite nicely. Other textures I feel I just need to get used to.
One misc thing I noticed is redundant sentences for escape pod incident.
[attachment deleted due to age]
First time reporting! Not at home so I can't pull the chart etc. but hopefully this is still helpful.
Storyteller: Good 'ol Randy
Difficulty: Very Hard (or whatever it's been renamed to; the 2nd hardest mode)
Biome: Boreal Forest (random note: why not just call this "Taiga"?)
Commitment mode: yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: Played approximately 5-6 hours, started colony last night
Complete mod list: N/A (vanilla is the finest of flavors)
Started with 3 colonists from the starting 8 (no rerolls) with very strong skills but a few gaps (8+ in medical/plants/cooking/crafting/animals/intellectual, but no one with social, very low mining, pretty weak on combat, etc.).
Randy was very generous early on, dropping down ship parts once and food twice. Hunting was so plentiful that I didn't really need the food, but it was still appreciated and made the curve much easier.
As per usual, I had a very solid outdoors farming setup and had harvested my first set of "fast" crops when Randy threw an early-mid autumn cold snap my way. Fair play in the boreal forest, I suppose, but even after harvesting my partially grown corn I lost thousands of food. The only reason I am OK is that the caribous are quite plentiful.
With a relatively skilled researcher the new research tree/curve felt challenging but reasonable. I am just now getting to turrets. It might make sense to reduce the cost of some of the pre-industrial techs, though, as there's just no way I'm touching something like tree sowing at a cost of 1,000 anytime soon when I can get my people better combat gear for 500. In other games I have played on earlier builds of 1.0, the research felt very difficult without a high skill researcher. I would consider flattening the curve on research somewhat so that even low level researchers can make a bit more progress.
After a slow start on the growth front, Randy suddenly became extremely generous with the new colonists. He dropped two space refugees within the span of about two minutes, and it got to the point that I was just releasing captives to free up space for better prospects. I am sitting on 6 colonists now, about to be 7.
In terms of raids, I faced very little of significance (two single-man raids, I believe) until I was suddenly beset by 2 raids and a manhunter pack (huskies) in rapid succession. The first raid was 5-6 natives with melee weapons, a few of whom were "warriors" and a few of whom were "penitents." I had thankfully just managed to craft new weapons for my folks (see below) and we handled that raid, albeit with a number of injuries. Immediately after, the manhunter pack showed up--5 or so huskies. I hid indoors to heal up, and while hiding a weak raid from one of the modern factions showed up. I took advantage of the manhunters going after these guys to clean the whole thing up without too much of an issue, just a couple minor injuries, and rescued one of the huskies to train.
Speaking of crafting, after a wedding occurred I have been blessed with two inspired moods, one of which was crafting (sadly, on my level 6 crafter, rather than my 14). The inspired crafting mood resulted in an excellent bolt rifle. My level 14 crafter also output a good bolt rifle and an excellent shotgun. Still waiting on masterwork gear. As a brief aside, the wedding mood buff feels just slightly overpowered. 30 days of a huge mood boost is an enormous boon, and anyone who attends the wedding also gets a 10 day boost. I would maybe knock the 30-day mood boost down to 20 or so, as currently it feels I have carte blanche to do anything without any fear of mood -based repercussions.
Some random notes:
-Just as a social fistfight ended, the combatant colonists both briefly appeared to draw their guns on one another. This was apparently a graphical issue, but it scared the shit out of me for a moment and could confuse new players.
-One of my colonists managed to trap himself in a 1-tile space while building two walls meant to block up a gap in the terrain and had to deconstruct the walls to escape.
-Infections feel trivial with a skilled doctor and modern medicine. This is probably how it should be.
-The gearing for the 3-man start feels fairly generous even on very hard. In particular, 30 medicine is enough to last for years if used selectively.
Storyteller: Cassandra, rich explorer
Difficulty: Merciless struggle
Biome: Ice Sheet, large hills
Commitment mode: yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~20h on this run (started with the update on traps)
Complete mod list: medical tab, numbers
* i decided to play with more engagement with my pawns this run. It resulted in more deaths (4) during the first quadrums, but thanks to the pop adaptation i didn't really feel threatened. I had losses one at a time and a lot of opportunities to get new pawns until i reached 5-6 colonists.
* IEDs and traps: I used stone deadfall traps as a rescue to protect the windturbines. I had 7 traps north and 7 south. They were not triggered by every raid, so i had no trouble rebuilding them until the very end game and the ship sequence. Steel deadfall trap would have been a waste of ressources until the very end game though. IEDs are more pratical now, i kept a few of them in the hallway, ready to be installed in the bedroom chosen by sappers.
* But most importantly the adaptation is so reactive that you can play with different styles: open, engaging your colonists and patching them up with bionic, affording some losses and benefiting from the discount on raids, ambushing mechanoids with EMP and melee etc...
Here i lost a caravan looking for gold on the world map, 3 pawns were captured but it opened a window of opportunity to start up the reactor, the colony wasn't ready, but they made it eating insect meat and losing a few limbs
* fun fact: i had a colonist bored with solitary relaxation, she didn't play pool or watch tv or whatever... turned out she lost both eyes to a scyther
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cass Classic
Difficulty: medium/rough
Biome: temperate forest (mountains and ocean coast)
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~3-4 hours (colony is 2+ years old Started in .1972, currently at .1977)
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer (been collecting screenshots since day 40 or so)
I like most of the new textures, but agree that the "big" meat just looks like big red lego bricks.
I like the stacked meals and healroot texture, but feel like they could be scaled down a bit to match medicine.
(not in displayed stack count, rather the dimensions of the meals/healroot)
I got two raids in a row in the last hour of play and noticed that Raiders don't seem to be able to handle layered walls very well. I have two walls, an outer and inner wall, that span over a large area of territory to keep safe for some grazing animals. The outer wall is only 1 tile thick and has a wood door, and the inner wall is 3 tiles thick with no door. All of my defenses are behind the inner wall.
In each Raid the attackers spread out evenly along the outer wall and each tore down their own section completely ignoring the much weaker and undefended wooden door.
I get that this is meant to try and avoid defenses expected directly behind the wall they are busting down but with layered walls, especially ones where the only purpose is delay or enclosure, it just makes it easier to prepare and potentially spreads their forces thin when they eventually bust through.
It's a tiny thing but "bio" is a really good name for that tab, I clicked it immediately knowing what it was without even realising it had changed until after I processed I was at the right tab.
Just posting to say I agree with some of the other posters. I'm not fans of the new meat and silver looks.
One looks like legos and the other like a pile of insect eggs.
Cheers :)
Quote from: Tynan on July 27, 2018, 04:06:30 AM
Building traps no longer expands the home area.
Can we please get the same for graves and dumping stockpile zones?
I hate to disagree with everybody but I like the new meat textures.
I'm not super hot on the plasteel, component, or advanced component textures but I think that's just not being used to them.
Things sent by drop pod as payment are marked forbidden by default, which means if I forget about them they start to decay. They didn't used to do that, is it a mistake, an intentional change, or did I set something wrong?
EDIT: Hmm this didn't happen just now. Maybe it's only when you're not in the settlement? Like when you're away at a bandit camp and win, and then they send the reward? I'll keep an eye on it.
EDIT: Yes it is only when you're not in the colony map.
When you select a bed, it shows dressers and end tables as kind of shortcut things to place. I *love* this, but keep wishing it showed up on other things too, like:
- Drop pods for pod launchers.
- Chairs for all production machines, tables, and the poker table. And mortars. Basically anything you may want to sit at.
- Doors for walls, and vice versa.
- Medical scanner for medical beds, and vice-versa.
- Power lines for all power generating equipment and equipment that uses power.
- Power generating equipment for power lines.
- I'm sure there are more.
Also, when copying a door or wall it'd be nice to have the option to copy it, but also select what the new one will be made of.
Thank you very much, Tynan, for disabling automatic expanding home area after building a trap. I would be grateful as well if the same would be done with graves.
Also, when building, if there are any in storage there should be an option somehow to instead go place that one.
Quote from: MoronicCinamun on July 27, 2018, 10:56:09 AM
(sorry to post bugs here, but I'm not getting any feedback in the actual bug section so I can't tell if they're noticed).
I'm really enjoying the new caravan changes, everything about it really: the info, the depth, the ability to rest and tend and carry and all that jazz on the go. Pretty sure I have a bug here though:
Despite having a double bedroll (ofc I was too slow on the screenshot button, but it does in fact say "resting using 2 bed rolls"), Matt's comfort isn't going up, despite it having that arrow like it is, it has been at 0% for days now. The thing is Izolda's comfort is going up while resting, so she sure is benefiting from it. Also, they are married, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to share the bedroll; it's like the game reports them as both using it but they're not actually doing so.
UPDATE: so a day later, they switched: now Izolda is uncomfortable while Matt has the comfort, still says "using 2 bed rolls".
I've sent out another caravan, this time with 2-single rolls for 2 people: it ends up just having their comfort never go up ever, something seems to be wrong with this caravan comfort (and both are good-quality, so it's not that).
I just lost a caravan because the one pawn it consisted of had food poisoning in the initial stages and some wounds. Presumably once the food poisoning progressed, it incapacitated the pawn, which counted as losing the caravan even if there were no enemies left on the map. It happened during a destroy outpost mission and at that point I had won and was just staying around to deconstruct stuff for components.
Started a new game and was kind of excited for the new item art, but turns out (in my opinion) some of it isn't that good. Wild healroot is now harder to identify on the map and looks much less unique, and components now look like thimbles of yarn rather than components. Leathers having a smaller icon is better, though.
Quote from: DubskiDude on July 27, 2018, 05:08:57 PM
... Wild healroot is now harder to identify on the map ...
Strongly disagree.
I love the new healroot texture, and find it
much easier to spot in the wild than before.
EDIT:
In fact when I first loaded up this update, one of the
first and most eye drawing things I noticed was the wild healroot.
Am I the only one who likes the new sprites? Well, except meat. Meat could use a tweak or two.
I'm not loving the new art, either. Sorry :(
I don't think everything has to show varying quantities with different art. The fabric/leather bolts, for instance. The bolt itself implies a large quantity of fabric, so you really only need one picture and a number to specify how much, exactly. I like the larger bolts/rolls, myself (what we had before this update). The little ones are too skinny.
The meat, too, suffers for the attempt to show "piles" of increasing size. Why not have a rack of ribs and a couple of neatly stacked steaks as the meat art and a number shows how many of them there are. I'd agree the color is too red now. The previous coloration looked more raw meat-like.
I also agree the components look like a very large spindle of thread rather than something industrial. Maybe something more like a pile of cogs, bolts and piping? I'm actually not sure what components are supposed to represent. Electrical doodads? Mechanical parts?
The healroot change I like, mostly because the green now fits with the rest of the biome color palette and doesn't stand out like it used to. That bright green did make it easy to spot as I panned across the map, but it always looked unnatural.
Well, components resembling a very large spindle actually makes sense, because ingame description for components say they also resemble electronic and electrical components, so large wooden spools of cable are also part of it. Here is an example: https://ibb.co/gKoXg8 (https://ibb.co/gKoXg8)
Quote from: wolfraider on July 27, 2018, 05:48:02 PM
Am I the only one who likes the new sprites? Well, except meat. Meat could use a tweak or two.
Well, as I wrote I mostly like them too.
Quote from: Aerial on July 27, 2018, 06:04:45 PM
I'm not loving the new art, either. Sorry :(
I don't think everything has to show varying quantities with different art. The fabric/leather bolts, for instance. The bolt itself implies a large quantity of fabric, so you really only need one picture and a number to specify how much, exactly. I like the larger bolts/rolls, myself (what we had before this update). The little ones are too skinny.
I personally would prefer the very old pre 1.0 style leather for single items, the "full stack" graphic we have right now for a stack of varying size and a new "stack of bolts" for the full stack graphic.
(https://i.imgur.com/sY0vEwx.png)(https://i.imgur.com/WzKZMIZ.png)
Quote from: Aerial on July 27, 2018, 06:04:45 PM
I also agree the components look like a very large spindle of thread rather than something industrial. Maybe something more like a pile of cogs, bolts and piping? I'm actually not sure what components are supposed to represent. Electrical doodads? Mechanical parts?
I think its either copper wire or a copper coil - either way I like the art actually...
Edit: Oh it's actually the case that single clothing thingies are the old graphic...
I like the new components art a lot, but the advanced ones dont look like anything to me, that means I cant identify them as what they are.
Quote from: Aerial on July 27, 2018, 06:04:45 PM
Why not have a rack of ribs and a couple of neatly stacked steaks as the meat art and a number shows how many of them there are.
This one is a great suggestion for the regular meat. The human meat pile looks like one big red triangle (I have a lot of them in my cannibal colony =P ), but I dont know how to improve that. In general, if the same item is stacked next to each other, forms that fill the square evenly look better than those just filling half of it.
For the silver, what about a stack of coins instead, I cant unsee the silver potatoes either.
For the new trap changes - it really forces me think differently about my defences, especially because of the huge resource consumption if the traps are triggered. I have to test that more, but I like it!
I would love to see a split of small (single) and medium stack for stuff thats lying on the ground and then shelves similar to the tool rack: stacks on them over 75 will get the symbol for a large stack. Those shelves would increse the maximum stack size, but dont prevent deteriorating.
Tynan please make the auto-rebuild feature look for crated (uninstalled) items first!
Hi Tynan, IED traps are too cheap, just surrounding/spamming them around the base is so effective, breaking the difficulty making the game way too easy, adding turrets and traps and raiders flees after 3-4 explosions.
Phoebee struggle survival
[attachment deleted due to age]
They're pretty nice, but pre-nerf deadfalls was better than current IEDs, so probably intended. Now you have to progress to that stage where you have chemfuel in abundance.
I also have found that IEDs suck vs mechanoids, whereas earlier deadfalls simply wrecked them. So I'm definitely having a different experience.
Quote from: Tynan on July 27, 2018, 06:32:22 AM
Thanks for the great feedback HomelessAbe, Teleblaster.
Athimus I'm pretty sure it's a known bug, we'll get to fixing it soonish I hope.
Thank
you. This is an incredible process to watch you undertake.
Just an update to the World Quest Events not appearing...within a few minutes of gameplay today (using 1977), two World Quests popped up, and a few Incap Refugee quests have, as well.
I don't know whether to chalk it up to 1977, or, maybe more likely, just coincidence. Either way, it doesn't appear to be an issue any longer.
Finally build some kind of killbox and trapway.
Well... stone traps seems dont worth efforts. Too much work and mats for such not great results.
First - scythers invasion. 16 traps around outside geothermals. 13 triggered, only 1 scyther dead. :-\
Second - mixed mech assault. 13 traps at killbox entrance. All triggered. First 5 triggers kill 2 lancers and 1 scythers. Other 8 traps just buldozed by 1 centipede. :'(
But turrets vs centipedes works pretty good. Repel 16+13 centipedes in 2 events and still have 1/3 barrel durability.
PS Cant stop accumulate wealth again. 500k+ already. Last infestation(42 hives) bring 2,5k of jelly aka 20k wealth. More wealth for god of wealth! ;D
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cas/ crashlanded (big noob scenario)
Difficulty: eXtReMe meRciLesS gamer
Biome: big noob biome (temp forest)
Commitment mode: most committed player in universe
Hours played in the last 2 days: idk, 8 hr while watching streams and paying half attention
Complete mod list: PUREST OF VANILLA PLAYER
Ok so main purpose of this game was to test hyper efficient defense strategies. Right now the community is stuck in neolithic savagery with defense technology and I did not want to be a theorycraft only specialist so I decided to implement some new spacer tactics. Ultimate goal is to afk a max point mechanoid raid while eating doritos. We're not quite there, but its only month 7 so cut me some slack!
It is bit inaccurate to call it killbox - it has strong application against drop pod, and some limited application vs. sapper. Once all parts are complete, then it should deal with sappers consistently. So I call it automated integrated defense system, AIDS for short.
I will grade my performance for each encounter based on storytelling potential (aka one shot kill chance). Because we are all not perfect and should always be introspective about our play.
STORY TIME
Month 1 - idk not much happened here besides a trombone that tragically managed to run into a rifle round headfirst about 30x times. 100+ trombofur and horn and how much meat... already we are failing at the wealth management part of the game.
Month 2 - early refugee chase, this was some silly outlander raid 9v(3+refugee), good guns including BAR + with some decently armored for this point in the game. Got a pessimist / fast learner out of it, which isn't perfect, but its like a slightly worse version of optimist / too smart so can't hate too much. Some trap, some shooty action...they set some useless walls on fire and yay donated BARs. One guy loses an eye, he's pretty good though so take him prisoner! However one did manage to get a shotgun blast off, so at 2.5%~ chance to hit * 0.84% brain shot...
Storytelling potential ~2/10000. Performance - B. Letting raiders take a shot this early is kind of shoddy but refugee chased is pretty meme anyways with the numbers. Given enough time, the raiders would have lit themselves on fire, so maybe if I was a true scientist I could have let things play out that way.
I got another raid which died to AIDS pretty easily and we get some cute pawns out of it (wooooo minstrels are best, I love minstrels). Biggest challenge here was heatwave which rudely melted my freezer (upon later discussion, I probably could have prevented the meat spoilage by not being bad at the game, especially on a biome that has resources to build a bajillion passive coolers) + feeding 4 prisoners at once. Anyways I have to release some of the least cute ones which is big loss, but I'll recover.
I crack an AD around this time. Guards were mechanoid - 1x timewaster, 2x useless. I pop the caskets and big fight between mech dudes and 4x hostile gojuice boys happen. While trying to act as a neutral third party (aka SHOOT EVERYONE) my dudes get hit thrice by centipede big gun. One was stupidity, but upon resimulating the fight in dev mode I am convinced the centipede was cheating to hit the other 2 shots. Anyways gojuice boys win and then foolishly attack me and end up donating their power armor to us.
Storytelling potential - 8/1000 legitimate, 16/1000 illegitimate. Performance - C. Its true the centipede was cheating, but on the other hand I was playing sloppy anyways and I would not exactly feel that I was being unfairly treated if the first minigun bullet went into someone's brain.
Month 3 - cassandra players will know this is when playtime is over and actual threats begin. First I get psychic ship. This is probably the worst event for the 'month 3+ special raids" since I don't really have the tools to deal with this cleanly, and early on you are put under extreme mood pressure right from the beginning so you gotta fight ASAP. Luckily there's a stash of drugs left by dead raiders and RNG bestowed ambrosia sprout on us, so result is only one minor break while we go pop the ship. Ship is guarded by: 1x timewaster, 2x useless, 1x storyteller. With some neat gorilla warfare action (aka lots of bolt action range shooty shoot) I am able to mindtrick the storyteller into impaling itself into a deadfall trap. Useless bashes a few walls then dies (useless is even more useless without ranged support). AIDS dps output is not very high atm but eventually takes down centipede.
Storytelling potential - none. Performance rating - A+. Any day hostile storytelling lance is not fired is a good day.
Next up is month 3 tribal sappers. It is something like 13v8 at this point. This seems a bit weak, but maybe Cassandra drunk. The tribals rudely figure out the weak spot not covered by AIDS and mine through a few doors. Unfortunately for them they break into an open courtyard where I can fire on them from three directions and they have only my poker table to hide behind. I make mental note to order more IEDs.
Storytelling potential - maybe 2/10000 if that. Performance rating - C+. If I played well I can probably kill the sappers before they bust my walls (yes even tribals run out of the plinkplink wallbreaker pawns) then this forces them to path into something better covered by AIDS.
Month 4 - the fiesta continues with mech drop of 4x useless. The smartest one pods into my prison and tries to hack down a great pawn, but he is TOUGH and manages to dodge a few slashes before my highly qualified personnel come in and end the scyther with big shotgun. Meanwhile AIDS system deals with the rest, but at what cost?
We lose a masterwork bed and a slate wall is greatly damaged. This is an irrecoverable loss. Jet has to sleep on an excellent bed for the next year. :( My favorite gazelle also loses a kidney. Please nerf, you think masterwork beds grows on trees? Can we have adaptation for this?
Storytelling potential - none. Performance rating - B. Realistically that bed was doomed from the start, and I think I played pretty decently otherwise.
Some manhunter packs come. Well I was running out of fine meals so thanks, Cass. Actual fine meals, not IEDs.
Month 5 - big refugee chase! I accept immediately. 25 man raid including 2x doomsday + 1x triple rocket launcher responds on scene. That's a lot of dudes! Maybe I shouldn't have 40 sculptures in storage (w e a l t h c o N t r oL). Nevertheless, with new dps increase from recruits, they get AIDSed pretty simply. Sadly weapons get massive sell modifier so what am I supposed to do with this launcher stuff? I am immediately punished for my wealth mismanagement with a -30 psychic drone.
Performance rating - A. Maybe I should start putting statues in dps zones so people will stop being so pissed at seeing corpses.
Outlander sappers - what do you mean, I have to go outside my base again? On the bright side, compared to tribal sappers, you know exactly who you have to kill. On the not-so-bright side, these guys actually come with decent weapons, about 17-18 this time. So we end up exchanging something like 5-10 shots behind high cover before both the grenadiers are brought down. Sloppy? Unclean? A 15/10000 chance of being instantlystorytold via revolver / shotgun -> brain destroyed? Yes, but at least the AIDS system disposes of all of them most efficiently once the actual shooting part is over. I console myself with the thought that this suffering is not forever.
Performance rating: D+ - this fight felt too fair
Poison ship - guarded by 4x timewaster, 2x storyteller, 2x useless. These guys seem really angry already and smash a couple of exterior walls around my colony. Eventually they are all either isolated and dealt with. AIDS even is starting to deal with timewasters in an appropriately fast manner, nevertheless, I am upset at the resilience of last timewaster and order my minions to beat it to death in samurai close combat. Its not clean and certainly centipede does noticeable damage in melee but whatever.
Performance rating: zzzzzzzzzz timewasters
Month 6 - raid (relationship)!, our favorite means of non lethal storyteller. Luckily its just Ezra's ex-lover and she is not mad when the entire raid is executed. Then I get rare trombones. Unfortunately while being synaptically-impaired, I forget that one of the raiders pants got stuck in a door causing one of the three thrumbos to actually run up into my base interior and punch one of my colonists. Shoulder bruise. Whew, that could have been neck 1/25 (part efficiency 0%)! RNG not punishing me for being an idiot.
Performance rating: F. At this point I realize I should probably go to sleep.
I don't have any balance comments. This game is perfect.
ok if I had to say something - could there be a variant of a grenade that cleans instead? like bleach grenade. that would be pretty cool.
Question to every 1.0 player:
Did anyone notice a difference dragging the screen with the middle mouse button?
On my computer the scrolling isn't smooth anymore, it often makes forward jumps.
To be sure I just reverted to B18, and it's smooth as a whistle.
Now I'm back in 1.0, and the scrolling makes the pretty large jumps again.
(I run win 7 32 bit on a dual core)
Is this a known problem?
Quote from: Brainsample on July 27, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
Question to every 1.0 player:
Did anyone notice a difference dragging the screen with the middle mouse button?
On my computer the scrolling isn't smooth anymore, it often makes forward jumps.
To be sure I just reverted to B18, and it's smooth as a whistle.
Now I'm back in 1.0, and the scrolling makes the pretty large jumps again.
(I run win 7 32 bit on a dual core)
Is this a known problem?
Ive been experiencing it too, but My mouse is an old sh*tter so I had just blamed it on that. :P
Quote from: erdrik on July 27, 2018, 09:59:11 PM
Ive been experiencing it too, but My mouse is an old sh*tter so I had just blamed it on that. :P
Hah! My mouse is probably older. :)
I've been using it for 12 years, so any change in behaviour is easy to spot.
Quote from: Greep on July 27, 2018, 08:49:22 PM
They're pretty nice, but pre-nerf deadfalls was better than current IEDs, so probably intended. Now you have to progress to that stage where you have chemfuel in abundance.
I also have found that IEDs suck vs mechanoids, whereas earlier deadfalls simply wrecked them. So I'm definitely having a different experience.
yeah IED suxx indeed vs mech, but against raids you can make death way easy, chemfuel is not a rare ressource, research does not take long for the fuel generator
[attachment deleted due to age]
Tynan, we need a description or something that states that telescopes must be placed outdoors. Tried placing them indoor in my rec room and my pawns weren't using it. It can potentially fool a lot of new players.
Could you do something about temperature spikes from heaters/coolers/vents? I was thinking I should try more melee (rather than my usual sniper spam), which lead me to trying to do a maze of small rooms rather than one giant hall and only branching off where required by game mechanics (bedrooms, freezer). However, you can't have small rooms without individually heating them (nevermind attempting to cool them) because vents very quickly exceed the "slept in the heat/cold" limit and even if you had the throughput the spiking would hit you anyway when the outdoor temperatures hit moderate extremes.
The screenshot is -19°C outside. The northern bedroom has dropped to 14° for a moment, despite being set to 21°. One of the heaters is even in "low" power at this moment; there's sufficient heating to maintain 21° if it was stable.
Ironically I like using embrasure mods for this. They seem to merge the rooms into one giant room for temperature purposes, solving boost throughput and stability.
If I can suggest a solution I'd like if heaters/coolers were infinitely variable. Tell me you're using 136 W out of 175 W available to maintain current temperature. I'd still have to worry about insufficient power/heaters when the cold snap hits.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Are there plans to allow some kind of interaction with relationships outside of our group? A person is passing by, who is the *lover* of one of my people. I'd love to send her out there to at least say hi before he moseys off the map but even if I draft her and stand in his way he just keeps on keepin' on.
Quote from: Brainsample on July 27, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
Question to every 1.0 player:
Did anyone notice a difference dragging the screen with the middle mouse button?
On my computer the scrolling isn't smooth anymore, it often makes forward jumps.
To be sure I just reverted to B18, and it's smooth as a whistle.
Now I'm back in 1.0, and the scrolling makes the pretty large jumps again.
(I run win 7 32 bit on a dual core)
Is this a known problem?
This happens to me. I have a very nice brand new mouse and high end gaming mousepad to match it. I've noticed it happens when I'm dragging with the middle mouse button and there is a tiny loading blip. It seems to happen when a new letter / event / notification are popping or about to pop. If I'm currently using the middle mouse to drag to a new location when it occurs it will hiccup for the tiniest of micro seconds then shoot my cursor/screen waaaaaaay far away in the direction I was dragging to right after it hits.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Flat tundra
Commitment mode: Reload-a-go-go
Hours played in the last 2 days: eh... like 8?
Complete mod list: n/a
Started a new Crashlanded scenario on the frozen tundra and just like last time I played on tundra, raids stopped once winter set in--and winter sets in very quickly. My grower pawn threw down some giant fields of corn; not sure what the food meta is these days but with just one grower I didn't have the time to be constantly planting and harvesting so long-growing-cycle corn it is. Lucked out with two strong builders and a researcher and managed to get a freezer/kitchen/common room, some nice stone bedrooms, and the solar panels and batteries to heat it all before temperatures dropped (not enough wood on the tundra to burn for power). Also planted cotton to make parkas, which are fantastic for this location now that they don't have the work speed debuff anymore; it's just too cold here for cloth toque + cloth jacket to keep everyone warm. Is there a reason why Crashlanded pawns don't start with synthread jackets anymore? It makes starting in cold biomes harder now. Also I have to say I am missing the old OP wool. Usually the first thing I try to do in a cold biome is tame a Muffalo for those snuggly toques but they don't seem much better than cloth anymore. Two raids of one raider each, one of whom was recruited with relative ease and one who bit the dust after shooting my pawns full of bullets that all missed their intended target. Grr. >:(
Cassandra's been so quiet that there's very little else to report. Miscellaneous thoughts:
*I noticed I'm pulling 40 steel out of a square with a lvl 10 miner now, as opposed to the 32-35 I remember from just a few days ago. Notably, when a steel meteorite crashed, she got 35 out of each of the meteorite squares. Not sure what's going on there.
*I could get used to all the new art except the meat. Fluorescent meat cubes, no thank you. I dislike the new healroot because it looks like a weed and lacks a flower that changes color when it's "ripe" like the old one, but I could deal with it if I had to. The meat is just scary.
*Am I having very weird luck, or are Cannibal pawns more common than they used to be? I rolled up an insane amount of them in pawn creation.
*I haven't played a snowy map in a while and boy does it suck with the darkness walk speed debuff. Forget hauling anything in from the wilderness after 6 pm. It also means that my previous method of keeping outdoor walkways clear of snow by adding roofing will just slow my pawns down anyway unless I stick a bunch of lamps out in the open to clog the passage and get beat on by raiders. Blah. If pawns are going to be so whiny about the darkness I would really like a wall or ceiling light available so I don't have to festoon my base with impassable floor lamps.
*Not that it matters to my poverty-stricken pawns at the moment, but I'm not sure what was wrong with the name "power armor."
Weirdly just one of the two raids shows up on the graphs. Anyway:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618563514692069/7A1C98629DF0745C2DA0732A243A024AEC29EC8B/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618563514692422/4A26EFBBDB757FE2B9A12FC89900736FF3626B85/
(Animal wealth is zero because I modify the scenario so I don't start with pets.)
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 28, 2018, 12:16:28 AM
Are there plans to allow some kind of interaction with relationships outside of our group? A person is passing by, who is the *lover* of one of my people. I'd love to send her out there to at least say hi before he moseys off the map but even if I draft her and stand in his way he just keeps on keepin' on.
When I was setting up, one of my original crashlanded pawns had a brother "left behind" on the ship. Instead of burning up on reentry, it seems he ended up in one of the friendly factions on the planet. It still seems sad to me that there's no way to contact him--she can't call him and talk or invite him to visit or even to join the colony even though she knows exactly where he is. I was hoping something like this would make it into 1.0.
I like most of the new art.
Meat cubes could use some fat marbling or bone.
A stack of rectangular things could have the top one rotated slightly.
A pile of things (pemmican, for example) needs dark hairlines between individual items. Otherwise it looks like a single amorphous blob. If the individual items need their texture shading muted for the hairlines to be visible, it's still probably worth it.
My colonists have this terrible tendency to take pemmican/packaged survival meals when hauling them to the store room. Please let us make the ability to ensure they don't do that.
just took a look at 1977, and the art :|
1. insect jelly looks no different from jade
2. meat ends up look like watermelon, cube watermelon, i like the old one with dark red/brown instead of this new bright one
3. component+advan. component 're barely noticable, they're basically invisible
4.healroot also becomes relatively stealthy
otherwise, no problem, i like the neutroamine stack
the meal+medicine stack looks kind of "flat", each of them looks paper thin, kind of weird but probably b'cause it's unfamiliar
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome: Tundra no grow, small hills
Commitment mode: yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8?10? something like that
Complete mod list: vanilla
Another year and a half in tundra. This is basically year of the brainfarts and randy hilarity. Dudes punches my bombs in a tantrum and kills 1/4 of the whole colony. Is disintigrated in the process, drives a few people insane for a month from dead friends/spouses. Immediately after that, I send a terminator to a steel lump to go fight some manhunting pigs, forget to drop pod at the edge, and am immediately trampled to death along with a fine pair of bionic legs and a good heavy smg.
Rather annoyingly, and why I have mixed feelings about the whole storyteller trying to force loss/recovery and raids by wealth, this has made my horridly cold tundra colony the easiest fort by a large margin. The combination of deaths and inability to accrue large wealth in the tundra have made the raids sizes 2-3 years in about as large as two seasons in on a standard "easy" map. Example: One of my raids about two seasons back was literally just 5 dudes. I've completely dismantled my trap corridor last I checked and just had the walk into turret fire. As such, there really isn't much point even mentioning the raids. I think I lost a cannon to something stupid, had some hypothermia scares after a small drop pod on top of someone anesthetized, that's it.
The LRMS is amazing on cold maps where you can't make wealth from crops, and I've done a few lumps for steel, silver, and components. In particular doing components is nice, as I'm completely able to forego trading or building them myself, which might be a bit too good. Additionally, it's a great way to essentialy get all the wood you need on a tundra map in the process, as you essentially trade a launch pod for like 250 wood or so which is kickass.
Some notes: Forced spreading out of deadfalls now feels redundant. They don't have much utility anymore as single use spiked traps, so it'd nice to at least be able to use them to protect cannons or build a panic room.
Hypothermia is annoying to micromanage when you don't quite have the cold threshold down: your idiot colonists will wait until they have hypothermia (serious) to go back to camp, in which case they'll get frostbitten. Which leads to either even more micromanagement or dealing witht the fact that your medics are using full on medicine for a single frostbitten finger.
My annoyance with hunting is a bit overblown: draft hunting is just something you have to do in year 1, but in years 2-3, it's fine to just use the wildlife tab to hunt freely, as a 3-5% chance of death per year is manageable in an established colony.
Edit: While it's debateable whether it's worth fixing or not, intentionally sacrificing exactly one colonist every 3 seasons makes the game considerably easier as is apparent from the chart (although each of these in my case were careless mistakes or random happenings). This has always been true with the game, even in beta, which is a huge point against "loss/recovery" for me.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 28, 2018, 12:46:35 AM
Quote from: Brainsample on July 27, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
Question to every 1.0 player:
Did anyone notice a difference dragging the screen with the middle mouse button?
On my computer the scrolling isn't smooth anymore, it often makes forward jumps.
To be sure I just reverted to B18, and it's smooth as a whistle.
Now I'm back in 1.0, and the scrolling makes the pretty large jumps again.
(I run win 7 32 bit on a dual core)
Is this a known problem?
This happens to me. I have a very nice brand new mouse and high end gaming mousepad to match it. I've noticed it happens when I'm dragging with the middle mouse button and there is a tiny loading blip. It seems to happen when a new letter / event / notification are popping or about to pop. If I'm currently using the middle mouse to drag to a new location when it occurs it will hiccup for the tiniest of micro seconds then shoot my cursor/screen waaaaaaay far away in the direction I was dragging to right after it hits.
This used to happen before for me too, really annoying when dragging zones. It's like the game doesn't properly pause your input while auto-saving. I've turned my autosave frequency down to the minimum because of this.
Tynan, can we pretty please with sugary flake on top get a different/alternative blight? It's really bad for me being colorblind, like REALLY bad, but at least on all the crops I can look for it by shapes. With COTTON however being both are little blobs of circles I can't see it hardly at all. A single blight hit on a few fields of crops takes me 10 minutes of tile clicking to make sure I don't miss one because it is that bad. I know my colorblindness isn't a community wide problem, but it's a common enough of a problem that I'm sure a large chunk of players would love you too bits.
If the graphics stay the same then the color needs to change drastically. It needs to highly contrast against all the plants it affects. Or the simplier solution is to make sure it looks so different then the plants its sitting on that its easy to see.
Clusters of bubble shapes on cotton, which is basically a cluster of bubbles, is terribads. :( Stop discriminating against my disease Tynan plleeasse :D
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 28, 2018, 04:13:04 AM
Tynan, can we pretty please with sugary flake on top get a different/alternative blight? It's really bad for me being colorblind, like REALLY bad, but at least on all the crops I can look for it by shapes. With COTTON however being both are little blobs of circles I can't see it hardly at all. A single blight hit on a few fields of crops takes me 10 minutes of tile clicking to make sure I don't miss one because it is that bad. I know my colorblindness isn't a community wide problem, but it's a common enough of a problem that I'm sure a large chunk of players would love you too bits.
If the graphics stay the same then the color needs to change drastically. It needs to highly contrast against all the plants it affects. Or the simplier solution is to make sure it looks so different then the plants its sitting on that its easy to see.
Clusters of bubble shapes on cotton, which is basically a cluster of bubbles, is terribads. :( Stop discriminating against my disease Tynan plleeasse :D
Better: remove blight/zzzt ;)
I don't mind either of the events really. They have never "frustrated" me like some others (lookin at you TORNADO!), but not being able to see it on cotton definitely is a feelsbadman kind of moment because without quite literally click on each tile of cotton I will for sure miss one and have it infect my entire set of crops, which of course can be devastating.
I wish more games defaulted to planning for color blind players. There are entire genres of games I pretty much can't play, like color based puzzle games. :'(
New build!
Thank you so much for the ongoing feedback everyone, especially those who post play reports.
When you do post feedback please begin your post with this info:
Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome/hilliness:
Commitment mode: (yes/no)
Current colony age (days):
Hours played in the last 2 days:
Complete mod list:
----
Visitors don't hang out near traps.
Graves don't expand the home zone.
Friendly caravans try harder to avoid stopping near doors.
Rework various art.
All new art for dessicated animals. Each animal now has a unique dessicated look.
Revert orbital trader money amount to ~B18 levels.
Buff wool insulation.
Adjust armor rating quality impacts (it won't cap under legendary on strong armor any more).
Changed quest generation to be more consistent.
Hives now appear in a single cluster, not widely separated groups.
Added "reduce resistance" interaction mode. It's the same as recruit, but without any interaction once resistance is broken.
IEDs now have an auto-rearm option like spike traps do. The autoRearm toggle is no longer ignored if the trap is outside the home area.
Losing one eye now sets sight to 75%, not 50% (the same applies to ears and hearing).
Misc other tweaks and fixes.
Storyteller: Phoebe Chillax
Difficulty: Medium
Biome: Temperate Forest (Flat)
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 448
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: Greenworld, Numbers, Incident Person Stat, Wall Light, RandomPlus, Simple Bulk Cooking,
Small Shelf, OgreStack & Simply More Bridge.
Rimworld versions: 1974 to 1977
Hello Tynan,
I just send my ship in space for the first time (after only 1668 hours :P) and I wanted to share this wonderful experience with you.
Early game:
Love the new spike trap. They are deadly and totally worth it (at least on temperate forest). Wood are fine on soft target,
steel are better for harder target (like scyther or lancer), which make sense. Never had enough plasteel to think about making plasteel trap.
That being said, I seen quiet a couple of animals and colonists get hit by random trap. steel spike trap can be particularly
deadly to colonist without heavy armor.
----
I lost 2 colonists to a plague during trade caravan while having proper medic skill, bedroll and medicines.
This is because medical tending delay during travel seems to last about 2 days for the plague. That is more than enough
time for the infected colonist to die if the doctor fail his first check.
What did I learn from this? Always keep at least 1 penoxycyline in your colonists inventory. Once I did that,
my caravans could go out safely without too much trouble. Of course, it won't help if you get a infection.
-----
My earliest real threat was a psychic ship fight. There was a centipede, a scyther and a lancer. The perfect trio.
I was able to lure the scyther but the lancer wounded seriously the leg of Amelia, one of my main colonist.
I send her immediately to the medic bay while I try to figure out how I can deal with those mechanoids.
No sniper, no EMP, I decide to build a long wall with a door and trick them into melee/short range
the other side of that wall. It did work out, however not without a cost.
Amelia leg get infected and the medic being on the battlefield, she don't get proper tending. The infection is now
winning but the gaps with immunity get closer as the infection become even more extreme.
You know, it do not always end well. Had to remove Amelia infected leg at infection 99%/Immunity 96%. Very close one!
A prosthetic leg for you, and later, I will make a bionic leg just for you, then for all your brothers and sisters! ;o)
----
I noticed that some times, colonist will wear weaker apparels than what they already have.
For example, I noticed that some of my colonist prefer the wood full plate to the steel full plate (same quality/hits points).
I know that wood is perhaps a bit better than steel for heat protection but I literally had to forbid the wood plate
so my colonists could wear steel plate armors.
This seems to happen as well during end-game with hyperweave/thrumbofur duster and marine armor.
----
Mid game:
I started to use IEDs, well mostly high explosive and EMP, and they feel pretty cheap and can get very good result.
However, they do not seems to auto-rearms in my game.
Maybe because I started on a old version before the update ? *shrugs*
Also, what is the point of IED firefoam trap when we have firefoam popper ?
-----
I did lost a third colonist to a hungering warg. It was totally my fault as I could have outrun him back behind the wall
but I took the wrong choice and try to fight him with a chain shotgun while wearing full flak armor. Sadly, that was not
enough and the hungry warg downed him quickly. And as we all know...Unlike manhunter, hungry animals continue to attack
you until your are dead, which don't take that long unfortunately. ;oP
What did I learn from this? Don't ever fight hungry animal alone. (I guess that make sense!)
-----
I had a colonist that had several daze mental breaks during drug withdrawal process. It did seems that the colonist
was not getting the catharsis mood bonus after the mental state end. It might be fixed by now, I do not know.
---
Caravan ambush did seems a bit weak in general. For 4 colonists in full flak armor or better with mostly precision weaponry
and thrombo horns for melee.... and around 10-15 various pack animal... the AI send a single raider with a knife.
Don't get me wrong, caravan ambush should be pretty weak as we have little time to setup defense and must-do with what we have.
But this seem a bit silly. Anyway, this keep happening multiple times.
It did scale a bit as I progressed into the game, with up to 6 poorly equipped raiders completely at the end game.
Still, I did enjoy caravan traveling a lot, and it's fun to have weaker fight from time to time.
----
While raiding a small turret outpost I noticed that mortar are lighter than mini-turret.
I am not sure if it's intended or not but I did find it a bit funny that it was lighter to carry 3 large mortars
(30kg each) than a single mini-turret (100 kg).
-----
I was gaining new colonists pretty fast during early-mid game. Starting from 3 to 12... then finally top at 24 colonists.
The colony population was raising so fast that growing food quickly became the main issues. Good thing that the map had
50/60 growing days or I would probably not have survived that easily. The game almost ended with a large colony famine as
I completely forgot removing the roof I had build a week ago on my crop field to protect them from a cold snap... XD
----
I finish my killbox, a mix of long range uranium slug turret (Incredibly powerful!), autocannon turret and
a layer of uranium mini-turrets with a minefield in center and a deadly trap corridor. Well, of course it's also
around that time that the game adapt and send mores diverse types of raid (siege, sapper, transport drop, etc.) to test
your defense.
----
End-game:
Deep mining seems much more rewarding than before. I got many thousands of uranium and steel that way.
However, plasteel is still elusive.
So I build 2 LRMS and start searching for plasteel. I even made a specific miners team that I send
periodically to mine plasteel deposit.
I also buy every scrap of plasteel from any vendors I encounter.
Even until the very end, plasteel was pretty hard to get while I had thousands of steels, silvers, uranium & woods.
-----
Melee DPS info seems to be missing on power claw, prosthetic arm, bionic arm & archotech arm. I would like to know
how their DPS compare to others melee weapons.
-----
Friendly fire seems much better in general. However, those uranium slug turrets are still very dangerous, lost
a few pets to them.
------
Infestation and deep drilling infestation strength did feel alright. They can deal some damages to your base sometimes
but in general are pretty easy to deal with. I guess it would be another story on a mountain map.
----
I tried to use moisture pump to drain some mud around my base. There was not that much mud/water to begin with, yet it
feel like it was taking forever. I got quiet a few of them working but at the end I feel that it was not working fast
enough to justify their use over simple bridge.
-----
Caravan request did seems less interesting/rewarding during the mid/end game. Most of my caravans travel was for components
/ plasteel mining and some times selling items at friendly villages or finding item stash.
I wish there was more opportunity to find those rares tech devices (healer mech serum, resurrector mech serum, archotech, etc.)
On another side, it make each colony unique has I won't have the same rare devices in each colony.
-----
The largest threat to me during end-game was probably mechanoids drop directly inside my base. Those often inflict large
damage to the base. To help against this, I put EMP IED trap & firefoam popper everywhere inside my base.
------
Ship starting sequence was incredibly fun! Lot of actions and had the chance to use some on those nasty weapons/devices
I collected during my adventure.
It was intense, I barely had the time to repair and rearm trap between each raid. It was also the first time that I saw
raiders with triple and doomsday rocket launcher.
I even lost 2 geothermal generator to late mechanoid raid. Good thing I was producing way too much electricity at that time.
In general, I feel like the challenge was adequate for medium difficulty.
----
Unfortunately, I don't have dev graph because I... permanently disabled dev mode by mistake.
Hope this will do!
Thanks for your time!
Time to test this new build... ;D
[attachment deleted due to age]
Great report Mirador, thanks a ton for writing it!
Nice to hear a story of medium difficulty, I think a lot of people will play this but sometimes it seems like the forum people only like merciless mode.
In my previous post I mentioned I didn't like the meat textures, but after playing for a while I think they are better than the previous look. Could get some small changes though, to make it look less blocky. Silver I still don't like, but the other visual improvements are better imo.
Survival struggle feels pretty good difficulty wise. Even at high wealth values (500.000) it feels decent. I just had a big scyther raid, but due to my base being in a mountain and having a long choke it was repelled very easily. Otherwise it would have been hard, but do-able.
Deadfall traps feel great, their construction work is annoying though, because even my 20 skill archotech arms constructor takes quite a while to make them.
Newest meat looks pretty good. Maybe a bit pale, but given that it's frozen most of the time when you see it... it fits perfectly for frozen meat. Flak pants are okay I guess? Old was fine, this one is fine too.
I don't see any other new textures - I have silver replaced with the early 1.0 version in my mod, so if that changed... I will only see later.
Also thanks for not destroying half my modlist for a change =p
Storyteller: Phoebe/Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest (Flat+river)
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 227
Complete mode list: core only
Hours played in the last 2 days: 6+
Rimworld versions: before trap rework - now
When my pawn got brain damage (7/10), his manipulation lowers to 70 %. He could haul less steel, but CAN haul all 500 silver stack.
Next pawn, cannot haul. When I told him to go hunting, he goes, he hunts and... he carries deer into the freezer :)
I love butchering until you got x meat :D
Woooo, after the new build all my 75 medicine stacks were reduced to 25 :o
Farewell all my Glitterworld medicine stack :(
And one last thing regarding traps. I build few traps after rework. After a few updates I cannot remove them and they don't trigger on enemy movement (selecting them with deconstruct don't work either).
Oh, its Septober 5501 on the crashlanded start, I wonder how many people refugee chased raid would bring. We have 13 people at the time.
(https://i.imgur.com/pqczeaN.png)
Accepting this makes it 54v14. These aint no tribal jokesters, too! Outlanders with 10+ shield pawns, some submarines, and overall decent weapons. Well ok, I won without taking any damage, but still you should consider whether for sane people that don't use every special tactic in the book whether this is good idea.
Besides, refugee had chemical interest so straight to the trash pile with him.
(https://i.imgur.com/fkHLacC.png)
I like how usually the better reward for the refugee is the huge influx number of prisoners ::)
"Woooo, after the new build all my 75 medicine stacks were reduced to 25 :o"
yeah I just devmoded my herbals back. Makes more sense playtesting wise anyways.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Mountainous
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): Not certain. 60 - 90?
Hours played in the last 2 days: 12+
Complete mod list: None
In my time playing, I have been getting a quest every several days in game. It's been wonderful.
On my current quest a reward is: Marine Armor (Worth 3k+ Silver)... this item does not appear to be described on the wiki - am I missing a detail, or is this new with 1.0 and lacking discussion?
Cassandra is fairly obsessed with throwing manhunter packs at me for my major threats this game. I have had a pack of 19 Cobras, a pack of 14 Winter Wolves, a pack of 11 panthers, an angry pack of ~9 Muffalo, and an early horde of manhunter chinchillas. The meat swarm was much appreciated.
Traditional raids are largely irrelevant for me. I have ~50 wooden deadfall traps at the two main entry points to my base. The largest raid was 15 tribals, who came in 3 separate groups and suicided rapidly on my traps. I noticed that each group broke individually, so before any real combat happened, the entire enemy was routed.
The most difficult (successful) event thus far was a psychic ship. 8 Lancers 2 Scythers. THe lancers got some lucky shots and my colonists lost 3 legs in the fight.
When I quit just a couple of hours ago, my first Devilstrand harvest came in (About 8,000 Devilstrand.. I planted a field of epic proportions). I should have thought a bit harder about that decision. My wealth SKYROCKETED when I harvested and a raid spawned in with ~35 raiders wielding rocket launchers, sniper rifles, assault rifles, a mix of flak/power armor, incendiary launchers, some frag grenades, and a few other weapons here and there... Even worse, is many of my traps have yet to be reinstalled. My carpenters have been tied up with other tasks. I saw the raid coming and exited the game, figured I'll deal with it tomorrow (AKA, I'll start over tomorrow after dying horribly).
I'm sort of a noob, only played since 1.0... So I was completely caught with my pants down by the above raid. I have a flak vest on each of my 11 colonists, good/excellent bolt action rifles mostly for weapons, advanced helmets, and leather shirt/pants of varying types (Mostly panther leather from one of the animal raids). Off the top of my head, my wealth went from ~40k to around 120k. Fairly certain that my short sightedness on the wealth impact of all those red shrooms is going to give me a game over! Lesson learned.
Yikes, that 25 stack size thing just took out over half my medicine stock when I reloaded!
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Arid Shrubland/Small Hills
Commitment mode: (yes/no) yes
Current colony age (days): 68
Hours played in the last 2 days: about 6
Complete mod list: Display Radius, Numbers
My first game without any scumsaving, and at the highest difficulty I've played.. Just over a year passed, but I felt like I never got out of the begining game phase.
I was done in by raids, as expected since I am terrible at combat in pretty much any game I play. I actually didn't have any colonist die in battle, but because of medical complications afterwards. The end came when my two surviving colonists were downed by accepting a person being chased, and then I found out that the rescuee was a 76 year old hermit (ha!) who couldn't doctor. They died, and she was on her own again. Until the ostritch tore off her right leg, that is.
The new graphics take some getting used to, but I don't hate them. I actually like the meat cubes and will probably try making some in real life and feed them (cooked) to my husband just cause they're funny. The game was harder than I am used to of course, but didn't feel unfair. I think that I can learn to get better at combat to survive longer at the difficulty, though I will probably drop it down to medium my next playthrough.
My biggest irritation was that when my colonists were downed their weapons were forbidden and I sometimes had a hard time finding them, but that is a .18 issue too. Really, think everything should default to allowed, and then let the player decide to forbid them. I know there are probably good reasons why it is the way it is. I just know this issue made the game less fun for me.
I hate to say this, but I think I agree with Tynan that commitment mode really makes the game better. I was playing Rimworld as more a less a building sim, and there is so much more depth to this than that gendre. I was more involved with the struggles of my colony, and I felt more of an emotional connection to my pawns (to a point, I know they're just pixels and AI, of course).
I don't know if I got far enough for my data to offer any use, but there is the graph anyways. Off to start a new colony!
[attachment deleted due to age]
For the new traps would be better to have "Auto Rearm" option turned "ON" with default.
Tribespeople have joined to help you immediately:
(http://puu.sh/B4xaZ/2a6ce0cd1a.jpg)
And I'm facing a haywire droppods mech raid - it's already a third dead, just 7 centipedes left. That's at least an ally raid worth mentioning. Colony Wealth: 1,03 mil
Oh... that actually was just half of the friendly raid, lol.
"Losing one eye now sets sight to 75%, not 50% (the same applies to ears and hearing)."
huh ?? i don't really understand, so losing both eyes reduce 50% of sight ? weird imo ...
Quote from: NagashUD on July 28, 2018, 08:00:40 AM
"Losing one eye now sets sight to 75%, not 50% (the same applies to ears and hearing)."
huh ?? i don't really understand, so losing both eyes reduce 50% of sight ? weird imo ...
I don't think that's how it works. Losing both still lowers it to 0%, but losing just one doesn't halve it anymore. I mean, if you lose one eye it's not like you're half blind...
Quote from: NagashUD on July 28, 2018, 08:00:40 AM
"Losing one eye now sets sight to 75%, not 50% (the same applies to ears and hearing)."
huh ?? i don't really understand, so losing both eyes reduce 50% of sight ? weird imo ...
No.
Lose one eye, have 75% of sight. Lose both, have 0% of sight. It makes more sense, because with only one eye you can't suddenly only see half as much.
Could someone extract and link the new core texture files from 1978? Would be appreciated.
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 28, 2018, 12:46:35 AM
Quote from: Brainsample on July 27, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
Question to every 1.0 player:
Did anyone notice a difference dragging the screen with the middle mouse button?
On my computer the scrolling isn't smooth anymore, it often makes forward jumps.
To be sure I just reverted to B18, and it's smooth as a whistle.
Now I'm back in 1.0, and the scrolling makes the pretty large jumps again.
(I run win 7 32 bit on a dual core)
Is this a known problem?
This happens to me. I have a very nice brand new mouse and high end gaming mousepad to match it. I've noticed it happens when I'm dragging with the middle mouse button and there is a tiny loading blip. It seems to happen when a new letter / event / notification are popping or about to pop. If I'm currently using the middle mouse to drag to a new location when it occurs it will hiccup for the tiniest of micro seconds then shoot my cursor/screen waaaaaaay far away in the direction I was dragging to right after it hits.
Huh, I have this too pretty sure, just figured my mouse is garbage.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival
Biome/hilliness: Arid, flat
Commitment mode: no (for testing branches, commiting in the main game)
Current colony age (days): 79
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~15
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer, Simple Stockpile Presets, Single Plant Texture Patch,
Not much play feedback for now. Only that I finally got a crafting inspiration on my artist and she is building something. As I said I think this inspiration is a bit overhyped, I won't get much value out of it. In later situations being able to craft a legenary weapon will make a big difference, but only in smaller colonies. If someone has 30 colonists, one with a legendary weapon doesn't give much overall power. Otherwise it's nice on a constructor to build a nice recreation building.
For early or midgame the work speed might be the best. I want it especially because my only crafting colonist has brain damage and he needs to craft stuff out of around 6k leather I have stored.
I got my first mech attack with a psychic ship recently as a tribe. With all the salvaged guns it wasn't really a problem. Centipedes are nothing when someone melees them. Survival strugge got really easy with the recent patch and I think I will turn up the difficulty soon.
----
New textures are a big improvement, but I still have a lot comments on them:
- In general the new texture colors look colorless and a bit overloaded (too much too big). That reduces a lot of the visibility in larger stockpiles
- Healroot looka a bit better, but still like some boring plant. The old had something special. The colorless thing applies here too. I would really like to know why this have to be changed. Are we now getting new art for all plants?
- Components and advanced components are really hard to see. Old were abstract and clear, new are not. The full component stack is better to see. It's just that this is one of the items where people rarely have full stacks. If this have to get a new texture, maybe make medium to single stack, full to medium and for full just add a second battery (I guess the thing in the background should be) to the right foreground. Not too much to not clutter and overload it.
- Human meat in fine. The largest size could just be a bit smaller since it almost touches other stuff next to it and makes it harder to grasp on a glance what's in the stockpile (the overloaded of above)
- Other meat: Too colorless. It looks like pemmican and has a somewhat similar color to stockpiles and wood floor, which makes it harder to see. Also for big meat it's too much in the stack. 2 instead of 3 items on top of each other would look better I think.
- Meals look ok on the full stack. The medium looks like full and even with 2 items there are 3 meals visible. I would just try it with medium stack size also just 1 meal.
- Same basicly goes for meds. Medium is just 2 meds, although it still looks too much. The idea of a different full stack icon is nice so I see on a glance which stacks are full. But 2 vs 3 of the same item stacked is not that clear. I would not mind if single stack and medium have the same icon. It's not that important imo to have a visible difference for a single items stack. It also happens rarely. And for thing where it happens quite often (like advanced components), I don't want a mini icon that is barely visible in a large stockpile. So I hope we don't get a half/small med box or half meal plate for single item stacks. Although it would reduce the stockpile overload, it does it on the wrong side.
- Shells could stand upright to make them more different from every other item that has this position. Especially incendiary shells and wood look almost the same.
- I really like the new heavy smg texture. I'm not a gun-person so no idea what this is based on, but it is somewhat familiar from other games and clearly looks like a heavier version than the machine pistol.
- Being on weapons: Pump shotgun and bolt-action rifle look somewhat similar. They could need a bit more visible difference. Not that important, it's just a minor thing.
Glad to see this gets fast improvements and I hope it will be all nice soon.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 28, 2018, 08:14:33 AM
Quote from: NagashUD on July 28, 2018, 08:00:40 AM
"Losing one eye now sets sight to 75%, not 50% (the same applies to ears and hearing)."
huh ?? i don't really understand, so losing both eyes reduce 50% of sight ? weird imo ...
No.
Lose one eye, have 75% of sight. Lose both, have 0% of sight. It makes more sense, because with only one eye you can't suddenly only see half as much.
Oh ok guys, i though losing an eye lowed 25% of sight so i badlly supposed losing both reduced 50%, my mistake ! thanks for the explaination !
Cutting bricks doesn't train crafting, is this intended behaviour?
Same with Chemfuel 0 skill gain doing it with a double flame. I mean sure it keeps the joy up but it shouldn't be 0 if it uses the skill...
Also I think both the hearing and eyesight thing should be 66% and not 75% just for closer realism.
There's something I've noticed twice now which I don't know whether it's a bug or working as intended
(Randy Rough, travelling through hilly arid shrublands, played maybe 10 hours in last 3 days.)
When a caravan is attacked by bandits, there's a chance for the fight map to have an insect hive on it. Both times that I've seen this the bandits have spawned next to (literally within 5 cells of) the insect hive. This sets the insects hostile who then kill the bandits and attack me, being a much greater threat than the bandits ever were. One of the times I just barely fought them off, the other didn't go so well :/
I'm wondering if this is supposed to happen, and if it's specific to 1.0 (I'd never seen it previously, though I wasn't doing so much caravaning previously.) It sticks out in my head because these accidental insect attacks tend to be far worse than any actual "attack" events I've encountered so far.
On art:
Meat is fine, could be brighter. Better than meat cubes that's for sure!
Stacked meds are not fine. Looks clunky.
Components and adv. components, they don't look very good. The latter looks like joysticks. The former looks like copper thread (which was the idea I assume).
Pemmican is fine, they kinda look chocolate pudding though. Maybe bars?
Healroot stacked is a big no-no.
So are the current planted healroot. Maybe change the whole thing to blue?
Neurotramine is also fine.
Beer looks clunky, they don't "fit" well on shelves.
Question:
1. Why are meds stacked to 25? I'm sorry, I don't usually care for stack enhancing mods, but if this stays I'm installing one.
2. On power armor: pawns can wear power armor and a pair of pants, but they can't wear a pair of FLAK pants. Is this a bug? Not wearing pants does not give a nudity debuff either.
Storyteller: Randy, tribal
Difficulty: Survival
Biome/hilliness: temperate, hills
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age: mid first winter
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~9-10
started tribal run, kinda hoping with each update that tribal scenario will become this magical world with its own pace.
Starting animal counts very high, I had like 40-50 animals.
Big game animals should be riskier to hunt. Decided to go straight for megasloths from day 1 with 2 hunters and had no incidents.
I built my base with an external jail outside the perimeter of the base, raiders focus on external structure not my base until I shoot at them to lead to killbox
Traps are super op, all events up to & including ancient danger all dead with no casualties using 9 wood traps, all traps replaced same day used and available for next raid with 1 builder. i didn't even notice some raids happened.
Raiders tech went up too quickly, and I looted some guns that essentially ruined my own game. maybe to improve raid strength test mutiple waves?
Between op traps and raider weapons there's no value to smithing & most of machining.
Starting tech takes bit too long i think, first column of research projects should be reduced by 20%, electricity also creates too much dead time.
Winter animals converging on base is ridiculous. 30-40 animals attacking storage every day and dying everywhere/littering base with rivers of blood is just silly. All animals have some way to find food in winter or sleep it off.
Also, why do they automatically know if a door to my base is open? If this behavior stays can we please get a "lock door" or a "shoo animal" action? I had like 5 boomalopes in my base at one point and had no peaceful way to remove them other than drag all food out.
Lastly, got bored so started shooting the boomalopes, inside my sealed off base, and instead of frying everyone I was able to lower temp and save the day by deconstructing two walls, inside a burning base, where everything inside is burning or gone. Need to add some logic here around roofs i think that will create a more realistic scenario and keep adjacent tiles next to fire when all under roof still hot.
It would be cool to be able to create a tribal start where all of the factions on the map are also tribals and all industrial techs (approximately electricity and up) are disabled. Maybe allow small mechanoid raids (really small since there won't be any guns available to the tribals) for late game to stay consistent with the origin story of being driven out of their home by mechs.
Quote from: MoronicCinamun on July 28, 2018, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: mndfreeze on July 28, 2018, 12:46:35 AM
Quote from: Brainsample on July 27, 2018, 09:35:25 PM
Question to every 1.0 player:
Did anyone notice a difference dragging the screen with the middle mouse button?
On my computer the scrolling isn't smooth anymore, it often makes forward jumps.
To be sure I just reverted to B18, and it's smooth as a whistle.
Now I'm back in 1.0, and the scrolling makes the pretty large jumps again.
(I run win 7 32 bit on a dual core)
Is this a known problem?
This happens to me. I have a very nice brand new mouse and high end gaming mousepad to match it. I've noticed it happens when I'm dragging with the middle mouse button and there is a tiny loading blip. It seems to happen when a new letter / event / notification are popping or about to pop. If I'm currently using the middle mouse to drag to a new location when it occurs it will hiccup for the tiniest of micro seconds then shoot my cursor/screen waaaaaaay far away in the direction I was dragging to right after it hits.
Huh, I have this too pretty sure, just figured my mouse is garbage.
Ahh that's been annoying me too. Yea, watching on my fps graph it appears that there are occasional stops FPS every XX seconds (somewhere between 10 and 60?) and if you are panning across the screen with middle click you teleport across the screen instantly when it happens. If you manually lower the FPS by say running a gpu testing utility in the background so it's 25-40fps instead you get extreme acceleration moving you around really fast.
Also scrolling in and out with zoom has no smooth scroll time and makes it look stuttery/low framerate even it it is perfectly locked at the cap (165Hz @ 164fps G-Sync here).
My 50 cents on the graphics. I mostly agree with previous posts - meat's now fine, brighter red might be nicer, however i am not really fond of how components and adv. components look. Medicine stacks - herbals fine, normals... dunno. Might use a little something more... clear?
Aaand healroot now looks way too weird, more like some kind of green spider with blueish eggs inside, than a plant. Kinda blurred too. Could use a tweak.
Moving on from the graphic topic - i really think deep drills when there is no resource to mine should produce different stone kinds depending where you place them. Currently its always one stone kind regardless of where you place it. Maybe even without limiting stone types to those that spawn on the map naturally. I really like the map having all different stone kinds for basebuilding aesthetics.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: medium/rough
Biome/hilliness: temperate forest
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): ~3 years
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~4
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer
Got some visitors. Three from a Savage Tribe that are currently not hostile, but were slightly in the negative for relations. Immediately upon entering the map, there was a Manhunter event and 8 Emus entered the map exactly at the same spot as the visitors. The visitors all died within seconds, and I got a -15 relations hit for each one. (EDIT: Correction: I misread the messages, it was only -5 relations hit. Still think this situation is kinda BS tho. Completely unavoidable.)
I recall a conversation about visitor deaths impacting relations when the player is not involved, back in an earlier version of Alpha but don't recall what the result of that conversation was. So Im just going to state my preference here in saying that this situation is BS.
Also 4 of my colonists have "1.9 years" logged as a prisoner.
3 of those 4 are my initial crash landed colonists. I think something probably got borked with with one of the updates as can sometimes happen with old save files, but I wanted to bring it up just in case.
Randy rough tribal
Temperate 50/60 small hills
Permadeath
First summer, I restarted when I got errors on my last save
5 to 10 hours played
Hugs lib, skylights, memorable aurora
I took my first gourmand on a start. The first day they went into a food binge and ate all my pemmican. Luckily about the 4th day a cargo pod of 40 nutrient paste fell from the sky. My tribals were less happy than I was lol.
My previous playthrough I didn't have predators, so I was happy to see them this time. On a tribal they help you get food and leather you need. I have noticed that the leather drop decreased.
Tribal cooks will take meals from restricted stacks if they placed it in there. I was trying to get them to focus on the paste meals by restricting the simple meals, but the cooks would grab from the restricted stack having just placed it.
Food poisoning is definitely reduced. I didn't get a metal floor this time, so I built on rough sandstone. I can't seem to find any dirt on it, the option never appears to clean. It has to be dirty by now, it has been days. But I don't get dirty kitchen food poisoning, just incompetent cook.
Traders have purple cloth. My home grown cloth is white.
Not sure if intended.
Traders have all kinds of cloth colors. The same as cloth apparel comes in many different colors.
----
There is a bug when placing wall and power conduct blueprints at the same time in a cell. I have one guy constructing and another delivering resources to it and the deliver pawn wants to deconstruct the power conduct frames that have 1/1 steel but aren't finished yet. She isn't even allowed to construct in the work tab. It happened a few times during constructing this wall. At first I thought I just missed placing a few cabl blueprints but then I cought her deconstructing. I have a save of the exact moment she is deconstructing a cable frame. (In this case it's under a cooler in the wall but it was the same with the wall itself.)
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 28, 2018, 12:24:17 PM
Traders have purple cloth. My home grown cloth is white.
Not sure if intended.
Cloth apparel and cloth textile is randomly colored if it comes from traders/raiders etc. - your own is always grey.
Re: Pawns dropping items in doorways when drafted or redirected.
Please, can we just forbid dropping items in doors, before 1.0 official? As in, they always fall outside of a door. This is so frustrating and easy to miss and then all of your food is rotten or every prisoner is running away ...
Also, I love the wet debuffs. They make sense and really impress a need for strategic roofs and actually contemplating pawn movement, in rain, especially during bad moods. Really cool. Might I suggest a "resistance" to the debuff, for rain only, when wearing items like Dusters and Cowboy Hats, maybe Power Armor and any other armors you would imagine having a sealed environment. Leathers could be more effective at this, than cloth.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest (Large Hills)
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): 42
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10+
Complete mod list: Vanilla
Rimworld versions: 1975 to 1978
Something really weird just happened...
I started a Naked Brutality, denied assistance to a "refugee chased" (she was 71yo, don't judge me), got raided once or twice, recruited 2 pawns from escape pods and 1 from another "refugee chased" event (3 raiders chasing her), got Flu and Malaria (only one pawn got sick in each event), cold snap, psychic drone and some mad animals...
Nothing out of the usual for Randy, except that I got my second "Labrador Retriever join" event in less than a month.
Both events where composed of 4 dogs.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Labradors, but how am I supposed to feed 8 dogs in the brink of winter? :p
I suppose it's time to hunt some boomalopes!
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 28, 2018, 01:01:06 PM
Re: Pawns dropping items in doorways when drafted or redirected.
Please, can we just forbid dropping items in doors, before 1.0 official? They always fall outside? This is so frustrating and easy to miss and then all of your food is rotten or every prisoner is running away ...
Yes, please.
Or allow doors to close anyway and let the item and closed door share the same space. With very few exceptions (megasloth carcass) everything a person could drop when drafted should fit in the same space as a closed door.
Unless the doors are truly 1x1 meter cubes of stone or steel. In which case they would easily push that item out of the way or crush it.
But please don't crush the item. It's one thing to lose a simple meal, and another to lose a resurrection serum.
I'm getting weird shading on some - but not all - of my wood walls. I can't guarantee it wasn't there before (though the last screenshot I took of it doesn't show it) but I'm pretty sure it wasn't, as I noticed it before even unpausing the game after loading.
[attachment deleted due to age]
hi, how i can override the butchers table, or delete it, i like put my own recipes in it
I didn't read this entire thread so apologies if this was already posted. I have played around 12 hours in the past 2 days, overall 60+ hours on 1.0 overall.
In the yesterdays build I encountered the following situation:I designated tiled floor under a growing pot. A pawn came and cut the flower in the pot so that the floor could be built under it. After that he immediatelly replanted the flower since he was assigned to growing. A loop of planting/cutting ensued. The situation repeated until I deconstructed the pot, built the flood under it and reconstructed it. I have never encountered this behaviour before.
Is this considered a bug, or is it expected behaviour stemming from assigned work priorities?
Similarly, a few versions back, the new feature where pawns haul items if they are headed in the general direction where the item is supposed the go ignored restriction zones. I haven't checked in the most current version. Is this on purpose or is this not supposed to happen? Cause it caused my pawn to exit the base and get shot.
Lastly, a QoL suggestion: when I click (highlight) a rough stone wall there is an option (icon at the bottom) to mine it, but not an option to smooth it. I find it would be quite handy to have it.
Play report:
Storyteller: Casandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest (Large Hills)
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 42
Hours played in game: 13, and this game is now Jugust 5503.
Complete mod list: Vanilla
Rimworld version: Started 1975, Currently 1978 rev1407
I settled just off a road near a hostile outlander settlement. I briefly confused the blue and purple and so I'm now a long way from a friendly settlement.
Early game went smoothly, everything went as expected. A large fertile ground patch on the East of the map provided a good place to set up base. Early game raids were mostly dealt with sandbags and injuries, I didn't invest into walls and traps later. First harvest I massively overproduced corn not realising just how large the fertile ground truly was. I struggled to complete a freezer large enough to fit it all in. I'm fairly sure that I'm still eating remnants of that first harvest to this day.
Despite playing 'rough' nothing truly bad has happened, everything is a lot smoother than previous 1.0 versions. Also I felt less "pressure" to recruit than before. Maybe also things are going smoothly because seeing the size of "chased refugee" raids has made me decline them all, they're always much larger than I'm prepared to deal with.
I haven't been raided by outlanders yet. I've had two siege attempts which have been a nice source of free components and shells for IED traps but the actual raids I've faced have all been tribal with the exception of a scyther drop-pod (away from base) raid, both of which are easy to deal with when using traps.
That said, I'm not using that many traps, they're expensive or time consuming to relay and my home area keeps expanding around them even in the latest version.
My biggest challenge has been colonist moods as I've marched to endless devilstrand-delivered wealth. I have a tailor churning out excellent-level gear and selling 10+ 'good' devilstrand dusters is a great source of income.
I should also mention that I started with an arctic fox, this is notable because none of my pawns had the animal handling capability to keep him tame, so despite being bonded he ended up wild. When I re-tamed him later his master still didn't have the skill to keep him on. That said the poor thing has no jaw so can't actually attack or defend, he sits eating kibble with my dozen sized muffalo hoard.
Animals have been plentiful, I've had a LOT of self-tamed events, I even had a thrumbo self-tame which I sold.
I made a truce with the local town from a peace-talks, this enabled me to sell a few prisoners which was really the kick-start for pure wealth.
I've been playing on commitment but I've only lost 1 pawn so far who mysteriously disappeared because I could bury her. She was a very recent recruit so apart from the friend she had made in prison who I had also recruited no-one missed her too much. I wanted to bury her though and I had set my crematorium 'rotten or stranger' only (two separate jobs, one stranger one rotten) so I'm not sure where her body went.
Keeping everyone happy has been difficult, I've got a wimp who was literally in hospital not moving with gut-worms for a long time. Also almost everyone has had sensory mechanites. I've ended up leaving everyone on 'psychite tea if below 50% mood', I wanted to set much lower than that but I've had difficulty with pawns just ignoring that and not taking their tea.
One guy has got addicted to psychite so he's now also experimenting on yayo but I'll think he'll be OK in the long run. One of my pawns came down from a go-juice addiction without much incident, except for 'wandering' during the raid in which the pawn I previously mentioned died.
My pyro has been happy and hasn't started many fires, he's got himself an incendiary launcher now which keeps him happy. Everyone else is on fine meals as standard, I haven't really upgraded guns yet since I've only just built a fabricator but hunting muffalo and others at 2% has pretty much passed without incident.
The biggest actual dangers so far have been boomrats dying in my traps and zzzt. The biggest threat however is from a drop-pod raid into my base which could decimate me if well-timed, or from a well armored outlander raid because I dont' really have good weapons yet and haven't yet researched mortars.
Edit: I forgot the piccies! Here's an imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/CXxR2pF
Bonus image of the kind of "chased refugee" situation I'm ignoring: (https://i.imgur.com/7kaAxe0.jpg)
Dealing with trading caravans in extreme biomes is kind of annoying. There's really no indication of when they're going to leave from "extreme weather" until it's too late and they just run off like crazy. It'd be nice if they gave a warning when they're about to leave as opposed to "BYE NOW!" As it is I'm having to just rush out to meet them and then haul back everything I got from the edge of the map.
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Survival Struggle
Biome/hilliness: Tropical Rainforest, Large Hills.
Commitment mode: No.
Current colony age (days): 202.
Hours played in the last 2 days: Like... 16 hours... probably a bit more. Don't judge me :(
Complete mod list: No mods.
Scenario: Crashland.
I decided to try a bit of randomness. I picked Randy and the first random location that wasn't flat. I ended up in a rainforest adjacent to a stone road near two outposts, a tribal and an outlander one.
The difficulty curve in the early game felt really nice, it was just enough pressure to feel the struggle, but it gave me enough breathing room to grow. Of course, with Randy being random, there were hectics moments of action. Raids combined with solar flares; herds of elephants suddenly going manhunter after being harmed; raids of two fronts forcing me to move around. Good stuff.
Some things stood out to me:
- Research feels a bit better paced now. Though I was able to beeline assault rifles by the half of the second year without consequences. Still, once I had the high-tech bench in a sterile environment, with the multi-analyzer and two researchers for day and night shift, it became a became a pretty casual thing. I'm already starting with the spaceship tech.
- Apparently, natural infestations can appear even if there is only one tile under overhead mountains (?). My base is pressing into a small hill, and I've been carefully avoiding digging overhead mountain. At one point I had a choice. Do I want a symmetrical butcher station or one tile of overhead mountain? Bah, it just one tile, it's probably too little for infestations. Nope. They appeared in the kitchen, and in the hospital that was adjacent to it. That just felt a bit cheesy.
- The butcher's table was destroyed (without giving back any resource, though that's one cheap anyway) when a hide appeared under it. The game didn't create a blueprint for the stations (presumingly because of the hide being a solid thing that's occupying the space) while the auto-rebuild thingy was on. It took me a solid five or so minutes to realize it was missing.
- The strength of the insects feels good too. They don't spell DOOM but they can cause a lot of damage. Some of my colonists have lost limbs to them. They're still pretty menacing, especially in tight places.
- Lancers feel weak. Among all the mechanoids, they have been the least dangerous to me. Even at range, they seem to die rather quickly against assault rifles and mini-turrets. Not sure if they don't have much health or little armor, but because they don't look for cover they're easy to hit. I could see how they could be a problem in big numbers though, or grouped with scythers or centipedes, but so far I haven't seen scythers and lancers in the same composition, and lancers don't stay in formation with the centipedes, so... they get killed before those arrive.
- The new art for stuff looks great. The game is prettier than ever. I love how disgusting the insect meat looks, kind of captures why it's no fun to eat. So far, the only one I don't like is the incendiary shell, it kind of looks like wood because it doesn't have a pointy-bullety end. It just doesn't stand out as ammo.
- On the topic of ammo. The autocannon is awesome. It was disappointing at first because I expected it to go BOOM a hit several targets, like... a cannon would. But it didn't. Still, the cost seems very much worth it, its range makes it more viable and efficient to defend large open areas. I haven't tried the uranium slug turret yet, it's use of uranium seems very unappealing. It's probably a leftover from earlier versions when uranium was a lot rarer, now I can just set up a caravan and buy some. But I'll try it next.
- I expected more diseases in a tropical rainforest since I usually play in colder areas, but my god. The description of rainforest when referring to "constant sickness" wasn't a lie. It even came to a point when a colonist had malaria, the flu and gut worms (or fibrate mechanites, I don't recall) at the same time. It has been ruthless. I lost my starting pet in the first week due to plage. It feels overwhelming at times, but I wouldn't say is unbalanced.
- Infections feel good. They're still scary enough that I prioritize tending when my colonists are harmed during a caravan event.
- I like doing caravan quests a lot more now. The rewards feel a lot more tenting, though I still get occasional crappy one. "Kill these five pirates and their turrets and we'll give you this masterwork of a tribal wear!".
- Regarding caravans. There are a couple of things that are unclear, and could potentially be impactful to my decisions as a player. 1) Do colonists prioritize food that will spoil, or that is closer to spoil? 2) What's the ideal visibility for what I want to do? The percentage that appears doesn't convey very well to me how dangerous the mission will be. 3) Does the estimated time to arrive take into account the time a colonist will spend sleeping? 4) Do colonists earn experience towards plant work while foraging in caravans? 5) Does the game autoselect the colonists with the highest social skill to do the trading?
I just think these things could be a bit clearer.
- Lastly. This is from an earlier build, so you might have changed already, but I remember that in combat logs, actions from mini-turrets say something like "Mini-turret's mini-turret gun hit X". It was a bit jarring to read.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Two things:
1. Why do implants/body parts have drawsize=0.80? I think they look a lot better with 1.0. Sure enough I patched that myself, but yeah well... I wanted to share my opinion.
(http://puu.sh/B4Juh/2804b45db9.jpg)
2. The chased refugee events seem like they have particularly hard raids - I can't say I've tested this, but do they flee much more easily? That would be a fun (and logical) kind of raid - bigger and stronger than usual, but they give up after triggering a few traps because why lose several people for chasing one guy.
Can we get a symbol on the boxes for which type of body part they are? The quality mod RJW has this feature.
Thanks Tynan, for redoing the meat graphics, they look much better now
My colonists are still using glitterworld meds to treat bruises and flu, did I dream that med-priority was in one of the 1.0 builds or was it only ever in mods?
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 299
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~20
Complete mod list: None
Debug Graphs/Notes for v.1977 -
Quote2. The chased refugee events seem like they have particularly hard raids - I can't say I've tested this, but do they flee much more easily? That would be a fun (and logical) kind of raid - bigger and stronger than usual, but they give up after triggering a few traps because why lose several people for chasing one guy.
I made the fateful mistake of voluntarily accepting a Chased Refugee last night. 32 Pirates vs. my 10 (soon to be 11 colonists). Pirates were toting 4 Doomsdays, Sniper Rifles, and assorted other goodies. I manage to kill 12 Pirates and they flee; I've sustained 4 life-threatening injuries, with 3 others wounded. I put out the fires the Pirates set which prevents my base from burning down, but haven't had a chance to patch up the holes that they made in my base, which left it...rather porous.
The
very moment that I get the notification that the Pirates are fleeing?
A 21-strong Manhunter Elk event shows up.
One of my guys has just broken (Sad Wander), and he's in the open...so I decide to fight it out to protect him. Big mistake. 10 of 11 colonists end up downed, and most of them are 3-11 hours away from death. The only guy who's still on his feet, miraculously, is the pawn who's still experiencing a Mental Break. I have to wait until another guy regains mobility, and use my colony animals to rescue everybody.
Here's the final casualty report, out of 11 colonists:
-4 colonists dead (2 brought back to life using Resurrector Serums obtained by quest); two bonded animals go manhunter upon their deaths, and attack my barely-alive and only 2 ambulatory colonists who are trying to save everyone else. One dead colonist is also the husband of a surviving colonist.
1 colonist leg - bitten off
1 colonist leg - destroyed
3 colony animals - dead
2 infections - looks like both are under control.
Every survivor is malnourished, and about to break.
...and now, the Poison Ship arrives.
Fun times.
On the bright side, I did repel the raid, and kill every Elk. The remaining 1-2 colonists that I expect to survive will be eating well for a while. After they spend the next game month burying the dead, cleaning the blood, and patching up the still-highly porous base.
Some graphs. My colonist bar tells the story better than I can:
(https://i.imgur.com/pYvMzSm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LO5WK2N.png)
So after having done a half dozen LRMS lumps so far, this is a very, very fatiguing process, particularly when you're using it for steel. It actually gets really boring, because overall the process ends up taking sometimes 10-15 minutes (various pod launching, preparation, clearing the area, etc) for what usually amounts to a few rounds of cannon recharges. It's balanced, but quickly becomes not fun.
I think it'd be great if there was a very high tech item that just lets you straight up create steel somehow in a process that is maybe slightly less efficient than drilling/LRMS, just to alleviate late game tedium. This could just be something modders can handle, but would be nice in the base game. Or if it's too much work, maybe allow scanning for "very large lumps" that take quintuple scanning time and yield quintuple lump size, so I can just send a large mining force and let them have at it for a while.
This is also an issue when you need to caravan for cheap bulk items (food, steel, etc). It's very tedious to order caravan after caravan for small bits of items. This is less of an issue these days with more reliable trade ships, though.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Medium
Biome: Temperate Forest (Year-round growing, small hills, road)
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: maybe 12 hours?
Complete mod list: Hugslib, Autoseller, While You're Up, RandomPlus(not used for this run), Simple Stockpile Presets, Numbers, Hand Me That Brick Lite, No Forced Slowdown, Deep Ore Identifier.
Okay so most people didn't like Kaelun (though she was literally my favorite. She was the head medic, negotiator, researcher and was a great shot to boot) but should it really be possible for someone with 4 melee to be able to literally PUNCH HER HEAD OFF WHILE SHE'S WEARING A MARINE HELMET?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Still getting insta berserks on prisoners at moderate expecatations. If it's intended that you need an artist for prisoners at by moderate expectations, that's cool (you should have on by now), but it feels weird that prisoners basically demand high end art and I thought I'd bring it up. Berserk and about to berserk here.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Catharsis is better than no expectations !!
My colony is transiting the 100-150k wealth range, and I noticed that the expectations curve seems off here:
extremely low (30) 0k
very low (24) 10k
low (18) 25k
moderate (12) 100k
high (6) 150k
sky high (0) 300k
Difference from low to moderate is 75k, but moderate to high only 50k. Doesn't make sense for the intervals to decrease at any step. The result I found is that at 95k, people were pretty happy, but at 155k, they turn into unhappy little infants :( despite not that much wealth gain. Suggest high moved to 175-200k.
Yeah it would be nice if we could have some prison guards, and maybe divide the trouble makers into hi-low security prisons and assign prison schedules and.. okay I'll stop now 8)
Edit: Here's one big reason why the trap change is a point against deadfalls. Here's a raid of about 20 scythers. Normally I'd just have a corridor of 80 deadfalls and this would be a non-issue but it's too expensive to have a corridor of deadfalls these days. The IED corridor I have for raiders was just bulldozed over as they don't really hurt mechs. I have been able to build traps in front of the cannons as a last minute deterrent, since these deadfalls are ignored in most raids and are literally just for scythers so I don't have to lose 2000 steel every raid, although they only took out a few scythers. If I hadn't seriously ramped up my charge lance production this would have been a really doozy.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 28, 2018, 05:23:49 AM
Great report Mirador, thanks a ton for writing it!
Nice to hear a story of medium difficulty, I think a lot of people will play this but sometimes it seems like the forum people only like merciless mode.
I play medium difficulty. Although I usually like to throw in a little something to spice it up via the scenario editor.
I'll write you a proper report in a bit. :)
Thanks for the notes everyone!
@Greep it sounds like the traps are working well, truthfully.
-Very useful in some situations but not a permanent AFK solution to all problems
-Considered differently against different enemies
-Different traps optimal against different enemies and must be placed in different patterns
-Useful as a complement to other tools, not a total replacement
Maybe! They are less effective is all I'm saying. I think I actually might like it better this way having gotten this far, although I can tell a lot of people aren't going to like it xD
Quote from: iamomnivore on July 28, 2018, 01:01:06 PM
Re: Pawns dropping items in doorways when drafted or redirected.
Please, can we just forbid dropping items in doors, before 1.0 official? As in, they always fall outside of a door. This is so frustrating and easy to miss and then all of your food is rotten or every prisoner is running away ...
Preach, brother!
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42094.msg414211#msg414211
I wouldn't say traps are less effective. They're just less brainless. (Is that "more brainful"?)
They used to be "set it and forget it"
Now you have to at least make sure there's a supply chain of materials in place to rebuild them and you have to make sure the rebuild is properly prioritized after an event.
I used to ignore single mad animal events. Now I send pawns outside to shoot it rather than waste resources letting it hit a trap.
I just wish the auto-rebuild of traps would use crated (uninstalled) traps so we could restore them a bit more quickly in the event of back to back raids.
I think it might be a good idea for colonists that go caravaning or out of the map to have a memory of their previous beds and sleeping positions.
Not only is it perfectly logical, it also saves the trouble of having to deal with mood issues such as
1) couples not sleeping together
2) ascetic sleeping in random impressive rooms
3) greedy and jealous people picking the wrong rooms
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4 hrs
Complete mod list: Hugslib
Just finished a raid that resulted in 2 injured pawns, 3 captured and injured raiders and 2 injured battle boars.
My two doctors went directly to the wounded, tended them in the order of greatest need (including a boar who would have died if they'd treated all the humans first), and did not try to eat, sleep or play horseshoes once during that time even though the battle started around midnight and lasted until morning. It was amazing!
ETA: And now the two injured boars are being fed kibble and raw meat rather than meals!
Quote from: Aerial on July 28, 2018, 11:32:56 PM
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4 hrs
Complete mod list: Hugslib
Just finished a raid that resulted in 2 injured pawns, 3 captured and injured raiders and 2 injured battle boars.
My two doctors went directly to the wounded, tended them in the order of greatest need (including a boar who would have died if they'd treated all the humans first), and did not try to eat, sleep or play horseshoes once during that time even though the battle started around midnight and lasted until morning. It was amazing!
ETA: And now the two injured boars are being fed kibble and raw meat rather than meals!
Any chance you can loan me those doctors? Mine never seem to do that hahaha. They love to just treat one random animal then try to go to bed bleeding to death. ;/
ok this is a big one for me.
We need to be able to FORBID tribal tech coolers, to stop people from refilling them, probably the same with troches and campfires too.
Thank you.
single rich colonist (no pet, gold or silver), extra wood, but disabled incident: infestation
Storyteller: Phoebe Chillax
Difficulty: Medium
seed: poker / 30% /normal/ normal
factions: outlander and tribe neutral
outlander 2, savage tribe and pirates hostile
Biom: Mountainous tundra with river (sandstone + granite)
62,66°N, 9,73°E
10/60 days growing period
275x275
auto
Version: current dev build (29/07/2018 0:20am GMT+1 - the 30,8mb one)
Playtime: 2h-4h (didnt watch it, sorry, mostly played max speed though)
summer (game started 2nd or 3rd summer day, so 13th summer is 11 days in)
day 1: building a small shelter
haul everything in
build wind turbine
realise i need batery research, started
planting 4x4 corn
day 2: visitors (offer of packed meals, componets, medicine & psychite tee)
weird: visitors wont take glitter medicine as gift (no interest)
day 3: mad snow hare
day 4: build freezer, brzzzt
day 5: getting some berries (60) from bushes
first raid: single melee teenager from SE
goes in a line west to attack hive (instead of north to me)
checkin on hive: it is destoryed, polar beer and wolf seems to did a number for dying themselfs
megaspiders goes wandering on the whole map (scary)
snagging 75 insect jelly
going for a berry harvest spree
day6: battery research done
day7: mining steel
day8: blight, build trap corridor.
doubt it's effectivnes with the new spacing, lets see
day9: dry thunderstorm
visitors (no trade)
started solar pannel research
day10: 2nd dry thunderstorm
realize the giantspider died of malnutrition
day11: incapcaitated refugee event (1 day to travel one way, 7days time, -10°C, my pawn survives only 6, undoable)
building trap corridor
research
day15: hunting a megasloth, went manhunter, trigger 3 traps to die (105 wood for a megasloth, so expensive)
day18: caibu self tamed
day19: mad elk. 3 traps to kill ...
gatherer passing by
day20: raid 1 melee, 2 traps to kill
item stash quest, 1 day, no defender, still to cold to do it (no cloths)
day21: force join colonist (why?) - frail, bit scar on leg, kind & to smart,
day23: the new colonist died and was butchered
eclipse
offer help to someone chased (sickly, no hauler, overall bad stats)
1 to "get him back", he lost his cloths and was left to "getting cought"
elk self tamed
day24: first snow, eclipse ends
rare thrumbos
day25: zzt
elk self tame
day28: incapitaded one (-30°C no way)a
time for a tailor bench, building parka and a hat
day30: solar flare
day31: hard snow
colonist asked for help (is go juice addcited, i take the cloth, let the 1 pirat retake him)
unfortunatly the colonist won, so he needs to die the cold death at -36°C
day32: cargo pods 218 corn
pychic soothing (female, only colonist is male)
day33: visitors
escape pod (useable for food)
mad muffolo (all 3 events in quick succession, all 3 arrive at my base at the same time)
day35: enemy escape pod
day36: raid, 1 melee, funny: -31°C, his cold insulation: -1°C, shots+1trap
day39: cargo pods (180 rice)
day40: move to rescue incapitaded refugee (at -39°C no way i go, my pawn can survive it, but the one i rescue? no way)
(that would need heater,a full battery, build mats, medizin and at least a parka on top of food, all carried by 1 colonist)
day41: stash defended by 5 manhunter squirals (3days away, urianium masterwork spear and excellent shotgun ... nope)
day46: electrice stove breakdown
zzzTT
late night: shaman merchants
day47: microelectronics done, tree sowing started
traders (wolves, food)
day48: raid: 1 melee (shots+1trap)
day50: wanderer joins (forced - will die in the cold by choice, taking his cloths)
tree research done, pemmican next
day52: combat supplyer
pemmician research done, hydroponics next
day53: defended stash of 1775 silver
day54: 8 day fo frenzy (for a researcher in winter)
day55: solar flare (6h total)
planting trees (pine)
muffallos wonder on the map and into trap cooridor, triggering half the traps
(traps are currently inreplaceable), decide to kill the muffalos
3 traps left to defend the base
day58: rescue request with danger, nope (even though that would be the first doable one sincei ts summer again)
shaman merchant
cargo pods (33 simple meals)
cargo pods (202 silver)
day61: 1 melee raider
Weirdness
need battery reference, but it needs research first
- why is the message there?
- why do i get as rich explorerer turrets, but no batteries?
- animals seems to love hive and eat hive products - hive doesnt defend itself
bears eat the drones/skelopede -> hive dies -> megaspider starts wandering
- 1 use traps for 35 wood is in not even closly viable in it's current form with no abudand wood
(maybe make it "break" when triggered and need to repair with 5 wood instead)
the new spacing makes 1 one whith corridor kind of mandatory
- a person that gets slight malnutrition that is mainly reasearching will not/very slowly loose that trait (researching and sleeping seems a higher prio then eating) even if more then enough food is available and close by
seems 13% food left the pawn prios research over food, leading to malnutrition since research isn't stopped for a longer time
(cannibal with untreaded human meat and only raw food not forbidden)
after testing further it seems he forgets to eat till starvation is reached
(only happend after playing on fast for 30 days straight, except for raids)
solved: found the problem: my freezer was the prisoner block, so they never took food from there, even if it was the only source
Comments on the play through:
- it still takes 1-3 traps per enemy (like befor the damage change), making it a 105 <something> solution per enemy.
it feels like it's very expensive for what it does. It takes 1 1/2 pine tree for one trap. i can sow 2-4 pine trees a day per pawn.
It then needs go grow 20 days (so about 3 years in my biom).
So i think balancing the traps for a biom with much wood seems like a bad idea as it makes harder biomes even more punishing, with little to no impact to wood-rich places.
The first year were about 25 traps (875 wood). For a single colonist.
They were needed to garantee safety for the first year - to get that lumber.
I would need to growth ~33 pines per year for the wood for these traps, so around 100 pines total.
That is excessive (and with higher frequency of raids and more people it just goes to even more insane levels)
For maps that are allready wood starved ... and wood not be able to grow in planters ...
Feels like it needs more balancing really.
The new forced spacing seems fine to me though (only an issue in 2 square wide death corridors)
- medium difficulty on chillax is like it should be i guess, but the amount of traveling for colonists you know nothing about is pretty terryfying.
Also the placement of them is questionable (-30°C and most likly not enough cloth to freeze to death). on top of the need to "warm them up".
While also risking your pawn doesnt seems worthwhile the risk
- raiders coming to freeze while attacking is hillarious. From an RP standpoint: how did they reach me in winter with their cloth?
seems like the cloth spawn on pawns needs to be improved so it's more "believable" that they could walk there.
- The first year only head melee weapons (clubs -steel & stone), the first raid after a year is a steel knife.
- a colony below 3 pawns should get spawned better value pawns (with bonus value in their skills opposed to their gear).
Higher difficulties could get that bonus reduced/deactivated or the value of pawns could get more valued to determine raiders (maybe more likly pirates then tribals f.e.)
errors:
marking plants to harvest that die, when the pawn wants to cuth them:
RimWorld 1.0.1978 rev1410
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
RimWorld.VersionControl:LogVersionNumber() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\Utility\Version\VersionControl.cs:83)
Verse.Root:CheckGlobalInit() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:82)
Verse.Root:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:38)
Verse.Root_Entry:Start() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:16)
Initializing new game with mods Core, 1434137894
Verse.Log:Message(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:49)
Verse.Game:InitNewGame() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:279)
Verse.Root_Play:<Start>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:60)
Verse.LongEventHandler:RunEventFromAnotherThread(Action) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:455)
Verse.LongEventHandler:<UpdateCurrentAsynchronousEvent>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\LongEventHandler.cs:367)
Cannot use this GetColoredVersion with a non-white colorTwo.
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.Log:ErrorOnce(String, Int32, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:105)
Verse.Graphic_StackCount:GetColoredVersion(Shader, Color, Color) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Graphic\Graphic_StackCount.cs:25)
Verse.GraphicData:GraphicColoredFor(Thing) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Defs\DefTypes\DefParts\GraphicData.cs:158)
Verse.Thing:get_DefaultGraphic() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:351)
Verse.Thing:get_Graphic() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:361)
Verse.Thing:DrawAt(Vector3, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:888)
Verse.Thing:Draw() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\Thing.cs:880)
Verse.ThingWithComps:Draw() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Thing\ThingWithComps.cs:326)
Verse.DynamicDrawManager:DrawDynamicThings() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\DynamicDrawManager.cs:78)
Verse.Map:MapUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Map\Map.cs:698)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:527)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316154686740627457/472981873895931905/Unbenannt.JPG)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316154686740627457/472981891788701696/Unbenannt2.JPG)
I miss the old healroot. The new one looks like some kind of weird tentacle monster.
This unfortunate fellow got gut worms and when he went out to stargaze he barfed all over himself without getting up. I've never seen a pawn throw up lying down before, not sure if intended.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618563519091548/7A3CC485DE24B6DCD511ED8E81E30959C7E1C49B/
This caravan decided to leave because wahh it's cold (what did you expect when you came to the tundra, smart guys?) right in the middle of a bunch of caravaners trying to have lunch. When the action was interrupted by the leaving alert, one of them dropped his pemmican on the ground. So... free pemmican? Wooo.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618563519093397/8A532591EBDEAE50F6E61DF87F3289507FCB7C36/
Gameplay Note:
Colonists who are married and have their spouse die are potentially getting three mood debuffs for the same event: "Colonist Died -x?", My Friend (spouse) Died -6", and "My (husband/wife) Died" -20".
Right now, that's a whopping -31 mood debuff for one colonist, mostly for the same death. I'd suggest paring it down to "My (husband/wife) Died -20" only...that's more than enough IMO, and it lasts the longest.
On a positive note, I'm very glad to see that my two colonists who were resurrected via Resurrector Mech Serums did not inflict additional "Colonist Died" debuffs; of the four that died, only two are (correctly) giving the debuff. Thanks for getting that fixed!
(https://i.imgur.com/VCKGqEA.png?1)
Minor suggestion,
I was would it be possible to put an option in to "restart" the map with whatever you originally started with?? I've had a few starts lately (mostly I try and play on the super hard mode) but this last one was a Cassandra, Medium, Crash landed. I don't normally think to save immediately when I start a game, and one of the firs things i did was tear down a wall right near my landing to have shelter (it was a flat map). Low and behold there's some bugs in there and i lose a guy right off the bat.. i'd rather just "restart" rather than have to go through to process of randomizing new pawns until i find a good mix. If anything just having the game Auto Save on start would be awesome.
Thanks!
I kinda agree with @Greep on traps topic. They are a lot more reliable now and not a permanent solution anymore, but honestly if my map is not overflowing with wood or i am at the stage where i don't know what to do with my stone (read when i rebuilt all my buildings with stone and finished outer 3-tile wall ring) - they are no longer a viable tool for me. Too expensive. And steel\plasteel ones are a no go at all, i doubt anyone will ever even consider doing it. While when they were reusable people actually used both steel and plasteel ones, cause they really paid off nicely for using more expensive material.
If you really want to keep them working this way, i suggest adding a different trap kind, that uses more or less old trap mechanic, is not as reliable, deals less damage, but can be just rearmed again and make it cost like twice the deadfall price. Maybe make them only metal based, so you can't just spam those. Unless you have a decent steel\plasteel supply.
I think at the very least if we're getting rid of the deadfall corridor, they could do with another cheapening if they're kept the way they are. Even though I'm using them as a last resort cannon defense right now against scyther hordes, I'm debating whether I should just put another IED field in front. IEDs get pretty darned cheap these days once you get some good growing going, and you can drill for chemfuel before that. I think they'll get much more use if they're in the 25-30 stuff range. Doesn't sound like much but it'd help a lot. Hard to say without playing more biomes, and I'm getting a little burnt out on 1.0 testing so I'm probably sticking on this tundra till it goes bust ::)
Cass Rough Normal 3 man start nothing special on a really easy biome (year round temperate forest) Very hilly.
Played most of it today.
raids are easy, no challenge. I am not one to change difficulty midway tho. I will finish this one, maybe the fly away part will be hard.
Everyone is wearing full flak armor, seems to help reduce deaths.
The raids are equal or even less numbers than me. For example last one was a siege with 14 guys. My 6 mortars opened 1 round of firing to get them to charge me and the fight was pretty easy with no losses (of limbs).
Anyway to fix ribcages? Does a bionic spine fix it? I ended up harvesting the guy with the broken pelvis that I had for spare parts after realizing he will forever be useless (after keeping him alive in that state for well over 60 ingame days). Ribcage shattered is only 50% so not the pelvis but also seems to be unfixable.
Most the late game people I seem to capture have higher melee skills than shooting. About half my guys are using melee. I am thinking of getting them all shields cause shields and melee seems to be OP when the numbers are even. And I say even numbers but I mean for the human pawns, when my animals get thrown into the mix I have a solid 2:1 ratio against them.
I think next one I will try a higher difficulty.
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/977730122498526268/C052380789B6223717DE2304AE3F8B005D61385E/)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/977730122498526172/D0A41DE6CC0674A2B95FC8C04279F2A61C8E9759/)
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/977730122498526088/F43BB9840BF97AC165DF4ED762EF6420266D99D3/)
Quote from: Greep on July 29, 2018, 01:36:05 AM
...
I don't think making them cheaper will solve the problem, it ll just allow having same deadfall hallway on temperate forest maps due to wood abundance, while on maps without reliable wood source or with extremely low grow season, they ll largely remain a no go, at least until you get to deep drilling. And since traps are the first security measure you get, i really think they need to be much more affordable early game than they are now, regardless of the biome you use. And i don't really have any idea how to make them more useful, without allowing people to reuse them. They're massively cost-ineffective compared to turrets.
Storyteller: Casandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest (Small Hills)
Scenario: Naked Brutality
Commitment mode: yes
Hours played over last 3 days: around 15; this colony is about 3 hours
Complete mod list: Vanilla
Rimworld version: 1978
Easy start, pawn wasn't incapable of anything.
I took shelter in a metal structure, I only had a 1 in Crafting so I had to craft a wooden club instead of a bow to hunt rabbits when I couldn't find any berries. My pawn only had a 1 in Medical so every fight against a rabbit was a dice roll on whether an infection would end the game.
Food-wise I survived on berries and rabbits the first couple days and a couple dead Muffalo that a bear killed.
Instead of fighting directly I made a trap corridor into my base. Since I'm on a temperate forest it's really easy to keep the traps up. On non-forest maps I can imagine it being much harder. I attached a picture of my trap corridor.
On the traps, manhunting animals trigger the traps, but the animals that hunt my colonists were not. I think that since the animals are acting hostile to my colonists, they should trigger the traps in that case.
The first wanderer that joined me and my first recruit were both incapable of violence, so I've pretty much been depending solely on the traps as my defense. It has taken one or two to kill or down an enemy.
I'm on day 36 and have had only 1-person raids so far, even with four colonists now.
I tried very hard to avoid food poisoning this game. I had my starter pawn on cleaning as his highest priority for the early game. I started in a metal structure with metal tiles, so even with my starter having a 2 in cooking, I did not have any food poisoning early game. When my third pawn joined, who has 6 in cooking, I got two instances of food poisoning with the explanation being "incompetent cook." The kitchen is still the same room and it is always spotless.
Early on I had an escape pod land with the pawn having both a Luciferium Need and a prosthetic arm. I removed the arm and took her two luciferium and sent her on the way, netting me a pretty decent amount of silver early.
I like most of the new icons but the components.
The healroot plant icon is good now that you added the blue to it. I could not see it very well on the temperate forest map without the blue.
https://imgur.com/a/VsdZ92J
https://imgur.com/a/UntSogW
Just some feedback on the new art assets:
Stacks looking like actual stacks was a fantastic idea, i like how i can tell how much i have of each item at a glance, it saves me time and eye strain from having to zoom in all the way and wasting time to read the tiny text.
Meat looks amazing and tasty, components look like components now and advanced component art is.. alright i guess =)
The new skeleton art is on point too and they all make sense, the only thing i wasn't crazy about was the new healroot art.
Keep up the good work.
wondering if 1.0 has done anything to improve the refinery? As it stands now it:
1. Costs quite a bit of resources (70 food or wood)
2. Takes a long time to complete
3. Doesnt seem to improve any skills, seems it should affect at least crafting
Thats 3 strikes for me, and with the utility mods add to chemfuel seems really lacking
It's mainly a higher difficulty thing where trading for resources is more expensive. It usually pays to make things yourself. You can also improve its efficiency by cooking the food first (then it's 40 raw food), although that's probably only worth the labor if you aren't in a hot biome.
(https://i.imgur.com/7lh2xbE.png)
Seems reasonable!
Hey, at least this time it was a good pawn.
You can see precisely when the 54/72 man raids came on the wealth/funpoint graph (frankly, its the same thing), which drop a lot of high-market value weapons that you can't even sell for much due to -80% wep modifier. With the latest raid it was a 36,000 wealth spike. I imagine having random suits of tainted power armor sitting around in my corpse freezer isn't helping matters. But it is funny that if I was playing in a non-cheesy matter, the major skill aspect of this game would be my ability to destroy these high-value items and/or engineer situations to get recovery.
(https://i.imgur.com/VBbdI4N.png)
I'd love to see pawns that come back from a caravan trip to return to their previous bed instead of taking a random unoccupied one.
Cheers :)
edit: and is it just me or do mechanoids have some increased chance to shoot off bodyparts. Seems I need to resort to cheese tactics to fight these things, something I don't like tbh.
I dont like to have to rebuild the traps after one use, its not only a huge investment in materials but also in work time.
Maybe as a middle ground you could make traps to have X uses, and that then they have to be rebuilt after those uses, something like the maintenance in the turrets.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome: Temperate Forest (Large Hills), 30/60
Scenario: Crashlanded
Commitment mode: no
Hours played over last 3 days: About 15, this current colony is about 20 hours in.
Complete mod list: Rimfridge, A Dog Said..., Skylights, Simple Bulk Meals, Simply More Bridges.
It's been a fairly safe run so far, I've concentrated quite hard on making sure that I get all my farms up and running. I started with one pawn incapable of violence and another got brain damage early on, so for the first couple of years of game time there was just a melee defense. I also didn't start with a good intellectual pawn and didn't seem to get any show up for ages, so research stayed slow for the first couple of game years - I rushed watermills because I was on a river map but that was it.
It's been a mix of risks. When I expanded my base out under another hill I got a huge rash of infestation events but they seem to have mostly died down now. Some raids, some ships, some mechanoid drop pods. As usual the biggest challenge is keeping everyone fed over the winter, which is fine, that's why I don't play all year round maps.
I've just gone on a first outpost raid and it's the first time I've really reloaded from an earlier save. There is a weird thing where if you have your caravanners selected and click near the edge of the map, they leave the map and the quest vanishes, which is annoying as hell. I also got the most ridiculous luck the first time round.
I'd prepped what I thought was pretty well - it said there were 9 people there so I thought I'd bring some mortars and set up away from them, use an insanity lance, then snipe as they approached. Reasonable strategy I thought.
When I entered the map I ended up somehow in a cave next to an insect nest, which was fairly bad but I got through it with only an injury to one of my labradors. In the end I didn't even need to use the mortars as the insanity lance mostly did the job, and I even got a guy who looked OK to take as a prisoner.
The annoying thing was what happened afterwards. All of my colonists got the plague, and then *every single one* started having major mental breaks for things like "sharing a room". I was sure that they used to get a "very low expectations" buff of about 30, but this seems to have been reduced down to about 18? It's wild. The colonists planned well, pulled off a pretty decent operation, then immediately broke down and killed each other. It's the sort of thing that's probably just RNG but makes you feel as if the game is actively punishing you for doing too well.
Screenshots attached, timelapse of base build here: https://youtu.be/0eebdKZ-KNM
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 320 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~20
Complete mod list: None
Debug Graphs/Notes for v.1978
I had to play on normal speed much of today, with the aim of super-microing my ailing colony out of it's death spiral. For now, it's successful: all 9 pawns are back on their feet, and relatively healthy. The colony is more-or-less stabilized at the moment.
The Poison Ship which spawned at the end of my last gameplay update (while 7 out of 9 colonists were fully incap'd, and 2 deaths had just occurred) only spit out a single Centipede. Whew.
No gameplay observations other than the "triple jeopardy" mood debuff for a spouse's death I posted earlier...I was too busy micro-managing to notice much tonight. The game definitely seems to be pulling it's punches somewhat after a major crisis...which I'm sure won't last much longer. :)
Graphs for last night's gameplay:
(https://i.imgur.com/kcGXz79.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YuACSfT.png)
Can't rotate solar panels and marriage spot.
Intended?
Is it a deliberate feature that when "auto-rebuild" is on that walls are set forbidden?
I had a hole in my main stockpile wall which I didn't notice until everything was down to 80% degraded.
Luckily most my top quality stuff is my secondary stockpile but I did have some bionics lose a lot of value.
Bionics are really efficient now. For example a single bionic eye gets you to 130% efficiency because the calcuation is now effectively (75% * (best eye) + 25% * (worst eye)).
Just replace half the eyes, ears, legs and arms with a bionic and you get almost full terminator for the price of half.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Medium
Biome: Temperate Forest, small hills, road, permanent summer.
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: Maybe 20 by now.
Complete mod list: Hugslib, Autoseller, While You're Up, RandomPlus(not used for this run), Simple Stockpile Presets, Numbers, Hand Me That Brick Lite, No Forced Slowdown, Deep Ore Identifier.
I had a terrible cold snap and most of the grass on the map died. Now, all the wild herbivores (who invaded my town through a hole the last mechanoids put in my wall) are running frantically from clump of grass to the next, even though there are other grass clumps they could eat. It's like they're all targeting the same one, over and over.
Not sure if it's just that they're the only ones in the area that have "fully grown" or if it's a bug. I wonder though that my muffalos are not doing the same though grass is their only food supply.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: tomay on July 29, 2018, 07:02:15 AM
Can't rotate solar panels and marriage spot.
Intended?
You should be able to rotate a marriage spot, but it indeed seems to be broken currently. The spot itself rotates but the graphic does not, so it looks weird.
Solar panels are not rotateable.
Storyteller: Phoebe Chillax
Difficulty: Rough
Biome: Temperate Forest
Commitment mode: yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8
Complete mod list: None
I don't have a story to tell, but I am having a very Chillax game so far, and population seems to grow relatively easily. I attached my debug log so far just to have.
I wanted to chime in on the sprites conversation. I love a lot of the new art a lot. Healroot looks really good - it stands out in a totally new way and looks more natural in the environment. Components are great, big and small, because it stands out and actually makes sense for what it is, and it fits the current style. The silver is great for the same reasons. And I actually especially love the bright red cubes of meat. Reading this thread you'd think you'd gone full South Park on the art style or something, but the cubes makes sense, stand out but not too much that they don't fit the art style. They look cut and fresh and are easily distinguishable. The corrective steaks, however, are so dark they look cooked, and don't really match up for me.
I'm really disappointed in this community that they've been so outspoken on such a bike-shed issue that they've taken away such, for me, a welcome style from the game. I'm partially being sarcastic here, but I'm also part not.
Other notes include:
- doesn't the ability to build bridges over marshy soil near eliminate the need for the moisture pump? I get that wood is flammable and has no beauty, but the difference between cost of a little wood versus the cost of the moisture pump is so great is seems that the latter is almost redundant. I know wood is also not always readily available, but wood is very readily available exactly where you would encounter marshy soil, so that seems off. perhaps bring bridge research back to balance? or make the moisture pump a more easily accessible research? or make bridges require more wood. I'm not sure the solution.
- when running electricity through smoothed walls, the single tile at the intersection of four smoothed walls has (no path) to be able to build the conduit.
- i mentioned before that it is counter intuitive that crafting jobs don't build crafting skills and that maybe a name change or reorganization is in order to make that clearer, but I noticed that pawns' crafting skills literally decays while rolling joints. I don't know if any plan is changed in this area, but at the very least could you have the skill stay stagnant while in the time they're crafting?
- Wild Man event spawned a woman. anyone else see a problem here? Perhaps rename to something like - Wild Human, Feral Child, Feral Human, or even just Wildman would be better so at least it's just an exclusionary term and not contradictory.
- I noticed a change in animals not becoming desiccated immediately upon dying during a toxic fallout. intended? If it is I like it. As it was, a toxic fallout would come and immediately 100% of your sources of food were taken away with little recourse. As a tribe especially there's just nothing you can do about it unless you'd already stockpiled huge amounts of pemmican. although, you could probably make the desiccation happen a lot faster, like within hours, that way creating a sense of immediacy for the player and it still keeps the feeling of a toxic fallout without the brutal punishment. just a thought.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Lanilor on July 29, 2018, 07:44:53 AM
Quote from: tomay on July 29, 2018, 07:02:15 AM
Can't rotate solar panels and marriage spot.
Intended?
You should be able to rotate a marriage spot, but it indeed seems to be broken currently. The spot itself rotates but the graphic does not, so it looks weird.
Solar panels are not rotateable.
for the marriage spot at least you can rotate it, it's just that the graphic while you're placing it seems to be broken, but once you place it down it is indeed rotated. definitely a bug.
Ooh, just noticed that there is a new prisoner interaction: Reduce Resistance. We now pick between that and recruit. I have no idea what the strategy is for this. I just picked the Reduce option, maybe that will make the recruiting time overall less?
Quote from: Anniebenlen on July 29, 2018, 08:07:03 AM
Ooh, just noticed that there is a new prisoner interaction: Reduce Resistance. We now pick between that and recruit. I have no idea what the strategy is for this. I just picked the Reduce option, maybe that will make the recruiting time overall less?
Maybe it's for those who didn't like the option to just chat to be gone without it being an exploit to level the social skill.
Perhaps Tynan is planning to have released prisoners whose resistance is broken to raise faction relations more than usual? (hint hint :)))
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Arid shrubland, Mountainous (no caves)
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): 85
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4
Complete mod list: None
So about a year and a half ago, four wastelanders (new arrivals) decided to build a shelter where they could escape from the effects of a planet-wide toxic fallout.
Trev, Trafficker
Lute, Miner
Greyhound, Linguist
Lips, Messenger
Permanent game condition: Toxic Fallout
They started with research: Gun turrets, Hydroponics
They started with these supplies:
Silver x1000
Packaged survival meals x160
Medicine x30
Component x60
Assault rifle
Steel knife
Autopistol
Pump shotgun
Steel x600
Wood x300
The first order of business was building a place to shelter from the intense heat - this was a hot planet, and the chosen location would had an average temperature of 49.2C. The initial structure was built against a rockface with steel walls and three coolers. The coolers were powered by wind turbines. Occasionally, the wind would calm to the point where the coolers went offline, but not for too long.
After that was taken care of and the threat of heat stroke had passed, the colonists built some rec facilities - a table and stools, a chess table with stools, and a horseshoes pin.
A heat wave began on the fifth day. The tribal raider who arrived on day 6 was not prepared for the heat. It was easy for the colonists to overpower and capture him but he died of heatstroke because his prison cell was too warm. Whoops.
A couple of quadrums later, things are looking good. The shelter has a proper indoor growing area and a more stable power supply with batteries on the grid. Some manhunting monkeys are easily taken care of, along with another tribal raid. However, since the raiders die in their attack, there isn't a chance to recruit someone new to the shelter.
Another opportunity was missed just a little later in the form of a prisoner being held captive nearby. The colonists didn't have enough insulating clothes yet, so maybe it was best that this went by the wayside.
However, I did make it more of a priority to tailor some dusters so that some of the colonists could work outside in the heat. By now everyone has their own room to sleep in.
The colony also expands its facilities a bit so that there is a prison barracks with a nutrient paste dispenser.
Finally, there is a tribal raid in the last quadrum of the year and it yields a prisoner named Cobra that the colonists can start persuading.
The first quadrum of 5501 there is another raid, this time by pirates. The colonists take another prisoner, this one called Crink.
Trev has an inspiration a few days later and is able to use this to persuade Cobra to work for the colony. A few days later he also recruits Crink, so the colony population is now up to six.
By the second quadrum of 5501, the colony has a comms console and orbital beacons, so it can at least trade with passing ships. A turret guards the courtyard which houses the outdoor trade beacon, wind turbines and solar panels.
Later that quadrum a pirate merchant is passing by and the colony pays a fairly steep sum (about 1300 silver) for a tribal named Boxoso. Colony population is now 7.
Finally, with an incapacitated refugee (Eva) calling from somewhere nearby, the colonists decide to attempt their first rescue. As it turns out, it's fairly straightforward. The caravan that is sent out encounters no enemies, so they offer to help Eva and she gratefully joins them.
Overall, it's been quite a fun playthrough. I've used zone restrictions to keep the toxic buildup from becoming too severe. I've learned that caravans can venture out into the world without dying in the toxic fallout, as long as they're able to take the heat. They can even forage food.
Maybe permanent game conditions could be improved a little so that they challenge you even on the world map, though that doesn't necessarily have to be in the same way. For example, there could be tunnels or abandoned mines or cave systems that would provide protection from toxic fallout, but caravans have to scout for them which takes time.
It's also been interesting because of the resources which go into building a hydroponics setup and the power to run it, and also the scarcity of things which would usually be plentiful in a colony this old. There aren't any wild animals to hunt, so the colony doesn't get much leather or fur to work with.
I've also had to do a lot more mining to find hidden deposits of compacted machinery, because traders can't come by land. With transport pods I can think about maybe podding over to settlement to trade some things. However, while the research is in the bag, I've yet to actually get a refinery running, because I'll need to grow more crops to feed it, so I need to dig out more space and expand my power infrastructure. Even if I just build a roofed area over soil somewhere, I still have to light it up.
Haven't needed to use traps in this playthrough.
Here are the wealth and debug graphs! :)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Just starting an 'out in the open' playthrough. The new meat looks find I guess, prefered the steak-like version, but the colour makes it look rotten rather than fresh. Compare it to a rotting animal. Not a big fan of the silver potatoes either. Blue berry bushes don't 'pop' out quite as much to the eye but them and the red bushes making purple berries is fine. Maybe making the blue a bit more distinct?
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Medium
Biome: Temperate Forest, small hills, road, permanent summer.
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20 probably.
Complete mod list: Hugslib, Autoseller, While You're Up, RandomPlus(not used for this run), Simple Stockpile Presets, Numbers, Hand Me That Brick Lite, No Forced Slowdown, Deep Ore Identifier.
Turned on the ship!
15: Siege. They tried to set up in a hill, gave up instantly, assaulted one of our trap corridors and then ran away. We did take a few casualties finishing them off but also captured a few. We let them go.
14: Toxic fallout. Even the planet is attacking us. But we got the traps all set back up.
13: We got assaulted by... a group of travelers. They weren't even selling anything.
12: Sappers! Tribespeople sappers. 16 of them. Half of them ran through the same trap corridor, and the others fell for the "No this door's open come on in" trick. The other 5 ran. In the evening, a Male Psychic Drone started. One guy went on an insulting spree but allowed himself to be captured. Another hid in their room. At least they won't get much toxic buildup. The Boomalopes in the area started succumbing to it, though, and started exploding all over. Luckily, only a couple were in the base.
11: Hollis (the insulter above) went catatonic. We let him be. Some random alpaca wool fell into our base. Late at night, we got a huge raid. Mechanoids right on top of us! With all our traps, we took them out with no casualties.
10: A muffalo died of toxic buildup. I set them all to live in the freezer. They can eat the corn we don't really need anymore. The drone ended, thankfully. Some people started getting serious toxic buildup, so I set them to only be allowed indoors.
9: 27 tribespeople showed up. We showed them what traps and turrets do. We didn't even clean up the bodies or the weapons, but we did reset the traps.
8: Over half the colonists are at serious buildup and are therefore stuck inside.
7: Pirates. They got massacred by the traps and turrets. And the toxic fallout thankfully ended after only 7 days. Back outside, everybody!
6: Pirates with sappers, which is just as well as we haven't gotten the traps all set back up because of the toxic fallout. While the sapper tried to dig through a wall, the rest ran through some traps that were set up still, and then they all gave up.
5: Toxic buildup (which was still there but going away) gave someone dementia. They seem fine though. Then he got confusion, a bear self tamed(!) and we got raided, all in a few seconds of each other. They didn't even see the inside of the complex before giving up. We slaughtered the bear for meat. Then a bulk goods trader called and we bought all their meat. That should see us through to the end.
4: Nothing happened. We spent most of the day hauling stuff. Someone (The one with dementia?) wandered off apparently because we now have 18 colonists.
3: Mechanoids dropped on top of us. We eviscerated them but did lose a turret. Then the females of the colony got a psychic soothe.
2: It was so quiet we got all the trap corridors fixed up, right in time for a tribespeople raid. It went as expected.
1: We fixed up the traps that they'd sprung. We actually ran out of wood but with only a day to go, we dismantled an old building we'd not been using instead of cutting down trees.
21h: 17 tribespeople who are clever with their tactics ran into a bunch of traps and then fled.
19h: Psychite tea dropped from the sky. We ignored it.
18h: Mechanoids again! The turrets got some and we got the rest.
13h: We ran out of storage for dead bodies. We left the rest on the ground.
9h: More visitors. We told them we were busy and then ignored them.
3h: We set the muffalos to unrestricted. We're free, they should be too.
0h: 18 colonists lifted off! Woo hoo!
All in all, much easier than I'd thought it would be. Mostly because I was way over prepared. But Man after over 200 hours I've finally won a game!
I might found a few things that are not intended, I dont know if they are considered bugs:
Pawns assigned to hauling but not constructing "haul" a grave and start the building even if there is nothing to be done except the building itself (no trees to cut or sth). That means it is a useless trip.
While digging at smoothed stone, pawns assigned to contructing repair the wall.
If an open area (e.g. previous enclosed in a mountain) is closed with a wall, a manually assigned "ignore roof area" is reset and a roof will be build. This happens each time a one piece of the enclosing wall is constructed.
gonna try my hand at full report, apologies if the image posts are suboptimal still figuring this out, this is certainly less cumbersome than Steam links and it bypasses the direct upload size limit:
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (40/60) - Mountains (with caves!)
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age: 193 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: a lot, like 26 not sure
Complete mod list: None
I had a very brutal, very suspenseful, and over all most deadly and engaging battle I've ever had.
Living in a mountain I knew bugs would tunnel in eventually, so I sort of prepared: had some stone doors placed in key areas normally held open to function like fire "airlocks", and made sure I had molotovs at the ready.
I got the warning of bugs tunneling in, one of the bedrooms (my overall layout is pretty not-planned, mostly just where ruins were and hallowed out mineral deposits, very asymmetrical and random).
I have everyone except our doctor who can't fight for poop and the guy who was in a psychotic daze armor and arm up: very shortly prior our Social-Chef-Melee Expert returned from a long caravan trip with an AR, Chain Shotgun, and an Archotech arm to replace our "sniper's" prosthetic (she got a hand shot off by a Lancer short time previous).
I guess this was my first mistake: playing it safe, we had our worst shot, wearing no armor so he could stay light, just chuck a molotov the wooden door of the room the bugs were in, as one hive was adjacent. We were just gonna wait for them roast. And roast they did, even as they screamed and tried to tunnel out they didn't breech anywhere or anything, every bug died in that room, eventually.
(https://s22.postimg.cc/9pafkajxp/bug_after_math.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/9pafkajxp/)
That hardly would have been a problem, but while the bugs were roasting, not even yet downed, pirates drop down. They came in 3 separate groups across the map, I didn't get an exact total but there were a lot, with multiple chain shotguns, machine pistols, and other nasties; pretty sure most if not all had flak vests too.
My mountain base isn't too well defended, we have a 1-thick slate wall (we only have slate and a little sandstone around here) going around broken only by small hills where we could to save work. They took time to prepare, so we tried to get some food and sleep in but didn't really accomplish much there, while the bugs still burnt. Once they attacked, the full attack squad went out, as the raiders started to punch at different areas along our wall. Took a few potshots that didn't accomplish much, although one guy of theirs did fall to a molotov in a funny fit of running in circles while on fire. Our MVP was our chef-melee expert, with his thrumbo horn (store bought!), good marine armor + normally shield (both gotten from an item stack quest), and a decent advanced helm we built, he rushed out the wall to pick off a few stragglers and only took a few bruises in the process.
I had a few traps placed prior, but they accomplished nothing here: I have some steel deadfalls placed adjacent to some doors, which normally work well against melee gits and big animal, but they didn't get hit here. Worse, I had a few HE IEDs placed. 2 were placed in these ~3wide natural tunnels that form major highways through the area, none of which were tripped despite squads of enemies running through. Another one that was placed adjacent to a mountain in exactly the place someone would seek cover while firing at our door gunners got tripped and exploded off screen, yet the guy took almost no damage, just some shredding to one arm, maybe the armor saved him? The guy was standing over the blueprint, so I don't think he somehow triggered it, ran out of the radius, then back in (he was running away from our power armored mini-thrumbo).
The most brutal aspect of course was this was while the infestation was still being "dealt with". The fire had started to go out of control, adjacent rooms getting air-will-burn-you hot through the smoothed stone walls, soon our hospital was starting to ignite, thankfully we pulled the meds out first but we still lost a masterwork wooden bed and painstopper. Ideally, once the bugs dropped from heat shock we should have rushed in, put the fire out, and finished them off the old fashion way, but we couldn't with the raid going on. Our doc who stayed behind I had running in circles as he's trying to sleep to prop open doors and strip roofs to let the heat out faster, as at this point we pretty much just had to let all the fuel in the bug-room be used up. Once the humans were dealt with, we had as many as we could rush in and put stuff out. got a few minor burns, hopefully nothing gets infected. Our poor guy with the chainshotgun lost a finger to a chainshoty of their own, and then got a eye bashed out as their shotguner charged into melee.
Another thing I've never seen before: the way these raiders dropped in 3 different "squads", each's points seemed to be tracked on it's own, as killing a few would cause that "squad" to flee but the rest kept fighting on.
I'm still kind of torn on the traps: I understand why you wanted them nerfed, and the material cost doesn't bother me so much. It's the fact you can't place them "adjacent", it makes it so unreliable for foes to hit them. placing deadfalls adjacent to doors along the walls still works, as that's the point they would often take cover, run along trying to be clever and avoid fire, or because they're dumb animals that just run in circles against the wall. But I'm really at a loss on how to use the IEDs, maybe I need to build some "fake bunkers" the enemy will see and take coverin and then get blast-O'ed? If anything, I feel the no-adjacent-traps thing actually encourages you to build exploitative tower-defense like tunnels to max their chance of being hit, even if it makes the space-usage less efficient (I'm sure filling in the gaps with sandbags still works wonders), while making just placing a handful at some key doors or corners as I usually would just pure awful. I gotta say though at least being able to uninstall them put them somewhere else is a HUGE boon!
(https://s22.postimg.cc/dyf5mh2ml/shredder.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/dyf5mh2ml/)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/mgolqtwal/tunnel_1.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/mgolqtwal/)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/qptbt0mp9/tunnel_2.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/qptbt0mp9/)
graphs:
(https://s22.postimg.cc/ikb9uuj0t/wealth.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/ikb9uuj0t/)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/4dvizmfvh/mood.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/4dvizmfvh/)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/53ebbyt9p/pop.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/53ebbyt9p/)
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Medium, Naked Brutality
Biome: Temperate Forest, large hills, road, 30/60 days of growth.
Commitment mode: no
Hours played in the last 2 days: 6
Complete mod list: none
When I first saw the changes to the traps I thought it was a great idea. A way to get rid of some of the massive amounts of stored resources. But then i realized everything was setting off my traps, this turned into my single guy spending half a day, ever day rebuilding traps because a squirrel or llama set it off. I no longer like the idea of the rebuild cost of the traps its too much wasted resources for nothing. Perhaps a chance for the trap to break when triggered? Or perhaps only a portion of the resources to repair the spring mechanisms? like 10 mats? As it currently stands the resources required to build a trap rarely equals what it catches. Just not a good trade off.
My guy ended up dying to something that has been bugging me for quite a few runs now, Hunting. I have lost so many people to the hunted animal turning and attacking my pawn at bow range. In some cases this makes sense (hunting a predator with a bow). But when herbavores regularly attack the hunter after being shot 7 times and knock the hunter out it feels like I am being trolled. I am a hunter in real life and I can count on a single hand how many times I have been attacked by a prey animal during the dozens of trips I have been on, its 0. Thats because the second the rifle goes off every animal in a half mile radius scatters. The way hunting works in rimworld feels like I am being trolled. Its like every other animal ends up attacking my hunter, it really is not fun its tedious and trolly. The vast majority of those animals should not have a single chance to attack the hunter, perhaps ONLY if they are in a large herd but even then that would be pushing it.
I also want to give some feedback on bugs (the insect kind :p )
This map had a "natural" hive on it at the start, tended by 2 mega spiders and 1 spelopede. (see img)
(https://s22.postimg.cc/8bisp07tp/buggy.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/8bisp07tp/)
The nest was in this cave, near that ruin where that big box plan is. On the left is a tunnel I made, digging down (my base is in the top left of the map), for faster travel, with a stone door of course.
Early raids would often go towards that door for whatever reason, even though they easily could run around the mountain, I guess they saw that the door was mine and decided to smash it. They invariably made a detour INTO the bug nest, perhaps because they're "hostile" and they were close? That ended many early raids without me having to fire a single shot; their were more corpses there that have since rotted away.
After a period of time for no reason I can tell, their nest dissipated, and thus so did their jelly, forcing them to prowl for food. I forget how the first megaspider died, later on a mass-melee-tribal raid stabbed the spelopede to death and beat the second mega spider unconscious; it eventually got up, but in an ironic twist starved to death during a toxic fallout: he may be immune, but his food sure wasn't!
It was pretty engaging, as they both protected and scared us. However, as someone else mentioned many of the random encounters that occur in the mountains also feature bug nests, which seem to more often than not be in the top area of the map (that might be my confirmation bias though). Once, my caravan was faced by a single manhunting snow hare... which spawned in the bug nest; it got eviscerated pretty fast and we immediately took off. Someone else mentioned their colonists spawning in such a nest, that would be nasty for sure. It also presents another balance problem: you can still claim the glow pod they seem to usually have, and when you reform the caravan you can take with you the pod and any jelly they have, seems slightly exploitative. So the generation of natural bug nests on caravan-related maps maybe could use some tweaks.
A few tiny things that ive noticed, pawns are taking more chocolate than they eat. when they are done there is some extra that needs to be hauled back.
also, building chairs and wood floors, when the chair finishes it cancels the floor.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival
Biome/hilliness: Arid, flat
Commitment mode: no (for testing branches, commiting in the main game)
Current colony age (days): 101
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~20
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer, Simple Stockpile Presets, Single Plant Texture Patch
- I think infections are too boring now. They barely reduce stats (apart from the highest stage where they down) and with the efficiency reduction gone, they don't do much. It's now just the race between progress and immunity which is basicly "can my doctor do 38% tending quality on average".
- It's nice to see the enemies in a refugee chase dialog, but it doesn't make sense at all. If there is the roleplay-element with "he tells you a few things but has no time for more", there should be no way to magically know the exact composition of the enemies. (Apart from that it still doesn't make sense that he takes the time to tell useless information like his name but not important/distinctive information about himself that would higher his chance to get help. If I would be in that situation I would say, like, "hey, I'm really good with plants. Give me shelter and I will help on your farm.")
- Calling for aid from allies seems really strong. I was surprised how many friends came to help me. I don't think neccessary it is too strong, but more too cheap, since getting the spend relation back is quite easy, especialy with gifts.
Edit:
From the ally call, one of the friends got downed. I rescued him and he now went out of the map and I got 12 relation. So half of the cost. If 2 or more get downed, I can do this basicly for free.
Edit2:
When I take prisoners and heal them, as soon as they stand up, I get a prison break (within the next hours). But everytime before that when I check the debug display for their break chance, there is an mbt above 50 or 100. Happend a few times already and I'm starting to feel there is a bug, since it happens way too often to be luck.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate, flat, road, river
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 124
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~20
Generally having fun. The colony has made it through two winters now, and it's getting rich enough that it finally feels like I ought to wean the colony off the nutrient paste, to get rid of the -4 bad thought... But I've been really appreciating how food efficient (6 raw food per meal vs 10) it is using the dispensor. If there was a way to assign colonists to different meal types, I'd probably never stop using it.
The colony was vomit-city for a long time, when every colonist had gutworms, and I didn't even have herbal medicine. It was a bit monotonous having to regularly check the sleeping colonists so I could wake them to make them eat before they started starving. Perhaps pawns ought to wake themselves up when they're nearly out of nutrition, if food is available. (It was a fun problem to deal with, I just felt there was some unnecessary micromanagement.)
Hunting large animals feels a bit too easy now. With a bolt-action and reasonable animal skill, you can land enough hits that the animal is slowed enough not to actually be a threat, before it aggros. Taking on Thrumbos used to feel like a bit of a gamble/challenge in early game, now it's easy.
One of my colonists, Fitz, has 14 Social. He also has an arrow lodged in his brain (4/10 scar). Despite now only having 40% consciousness, and being barely able to walk, or talk, he continues to be a great trader (as talking is only 30% important for trading, unlike negotiation which has it at 90%). I'm not sure if this quirk of the stats is awesome, or ridiculous. Maybe the traders are intimidated by the arrow?
Peter the Human Computer recently had perhaps the derpiest mental break I've seen to date. The final straw was 'darkness'. He was doing recreational astronomy with a telescope at the time... Presumably he forgot to take the lens cap off.
While on the topic of mental breaks:
- Sad Wander still feels like the most dangerous mental break to me, even though it's 'minor'. Wandering aimlessly in a hail of gunfire feels more like an extreme level break than a minor one. I can't help but wonder if this one ought to be broken into a few versions, with pawns snapping out of the minor version if an enemy pawn opens fire. It also last so long, that if the pawn is sick you're pretty much forced to arrest them, so you can treat them. Which is fine, it makes sense. It doesn't feel 'minor' though.
- Both beserk and drug binges seem a bit too easy to deal with. Walling off the pawn or their target feels a bit cheap, but it's thematic (barricade them in/out.) Perhaps the pawn should be a bit more aggressive at smashing a path if it doesn't have a path to its target (perhaps even using 'deconstruct' instead of melee attacks, so you can't just repair your way past the event.)
Bug:
This error came up in the debug log. No mental break occurred. Looks like I missed out on an insulting spree. I can't think of anything weird that'd stop it (no recent fatalities, no blocked paths or anything like that.)
No target. This should have been checked in this mental state's worker.
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.MentalState_TargetedInsultingSpree:GetBeginLetterText() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\MentalStates\MentalStates\InsultingSpree\MentalState_TargetedInsultingSpree.cs:74)
Verse.AI.MentalStateHandler:TryStartMentalState(MentalStateDef, String, Boolean, Boolean, Pawn, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\MentalStates\MentalStateHandler.cs:152)
Verse.AI.MentalBreakWorker:TryStart(Pawn, Thought, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\MentalStates\MentalBreakWorkers\MentalBreakWorker.cs:67)
Verse.AI.MentalBreaker:TryDoRandomMoodCausedMentalBreak() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\MentalStates\MentalBreaker.cs:223)
Verse.AI.MentalBreaker:MentalBreakerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\MentalStates\MentalBreaker.cs:174)
Verse.AI.Pawn_MindState:MindStateTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_MindState.cs:315)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:580)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:303)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:267)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:512)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
Bug:
"StatRequest for null def" when clicking the (i) in the "Add Bill" list for various items in the Machining Table (for example, any shell type.) The info comes up correctly if you create the bill then click the (i) within the details.
Storyteller: Cass
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate, mountains
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): 23
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8
No mods
Colony started with two female colonists and one male colonist. Elvira, who had a psychite addiction was the lover of the male colonist, Trumpet. While Elvira was walking around in a mental daze as a result of her withdrawals, her lover cheated on her with the other female colonist. -35 mood from psychite withdrawal, -20 mood (for 25 days!) from being cheated on. Needless to say, every other day she has an extreme mental break and tries to kill one of the two other colonists. Last night, Elvira snuck into her ex's bedroom at 2am to sow a potted plant then immediately snapped and tried to kill Trumpet in his sleep. The only thing giving Elvira happiness is building a limestone chessboard, which takes 803 work to complete (that seems pretty high for a chessboard, no?)
Edit: Trumpet just married his new girlfriend, and Elvira attended the wedding. Elvira got a +20 mood boost from attending it while still having the cheated on debuff. I'll take it, but I was expecting Elvira to go ape**** having to watch her ex get married only a week and a half after they broke up.
Also, a few comments on the new art:
- Thanks for fixing the meat cube issue.
- The component graphic is a little weird but isn't all bad. The spool of wire looks like a spool of thread.
- It's very hard to tell apart a healroot plant vs. a cut herbal medicine sitting on the ground outside.
Lastly, I had an issue when my colonist was drop-podding in on a 1977-build colony where he drop-podded in next to a mountain. In this case, the drop pod would disappear from view when falling over some areas of the mountain and then reappear. Has anyone else noticed this?
It makes 0 sense or me that weapons dropped by COLONISTS when they get downed are forbidden.....
Quote from: PleaseBro on July 29, 2018, 01:37:11 PM
It makes 0 sense or me that weapons dropped by COLONISTS when they get downed are forbidden.....
My guess would be to prevent any non drafted pawn walking into the line of fire to pick up that weapon.
I'm going to give small feedback.
I started this playthrough from version 1970.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough, Lost tribes
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest, Large hills
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age: 113 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 9 hours
Complete mod list: HugsLib, Allow Tool, [XND] Proper shotguns, Simple Stockpile presets, Simple bulk drugs, Simple bulk cooking, Incident Person stat, Numbers, Progress Renderer, Death rattle, Research Tree, Animal tab, Memorable Auroras, More faction interaction (this mod is added today)
I had relatively easy days in this colony so far. No colonists were killed yet, and gaining silver by selling tons of duster coats.
Early raids were somewhat menacing because my colonists only had great bows and recurve bows, but after gaining guns from research and raids, raids became not so hard.
Most menacing threats were, of course, mechanoids. lancers from poison ships were especially dangerous, because they stay in near poison ship, so my melee warriors can't reach into them without getting shot. My colonists eventually lost some limbs from them.
I realized calling for aid from friendly faction are so useful. They are numerous enough to destroy wounded mechanoids from poison ship. Their tactic is just blindly charging into enemies, so they are probably dumb, though.
It only cost -25 relation points, and I think it's too generous now.
How about separating "calling for aid" into "calling for aid (normal) " and "calling for aid (strong)"?
"calling for aid (strong)" has same strength as current one but it will consume more relation points.
Caravan quests are generally good. Most quests have reasonable rewards. Enemy outposts now show how many people or turrets, so I can properly prepare before attack them.(Or don't prepare much if they have only two people)
I found some of trading quests are rather ridiculous (Why that outlander faction needs 52 short bows? I thought they are already using guns).
I think infections and diseases are easy in current build, but I don't know it's appropriate state or not.
they are quite easy in controlled situation, but in uncontrolled (like badly raided) situation, they are probably still dangerous.
I liked new prisoner recruit mechanic. It was entirely RNG-based in B18, but it's changed to "Somewhat time-consuming but eventually you can recruit them"
It's very improved!
Deadfall trap change is overall good, but building stone traps consumes way too much time.
They only slightly more damage than wooden traps, so I think it's disproportionate.
Also, thanks for art change. Dreaded meat cubes became very nice meat steak.
I still don't like new visual of components, though. They are kinda hard to recognize, especially when there is only 1 component.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival struggle
Biome/hilliness: Arid, mountains
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 340
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~15
Complete mod list: Core, HugsLib, Allow Tool, [KV] Force Do Job - 1.0, [KV] RimFridge - 1.0, Work Tab, Numbers, Deep Ore Identifier, Hand Me That Brick Lite, EdB Prepare Carefully
Phew. Not a full story. Just a little impression about ship launching. That was rough, but savescumming(reloadded like 6-7 times ^.^ ) save all 26 pawns!
Warning message before reactor windup was ignored(of course) and it was big mistake. Main part of the base was in the corner, deep under mountains, and killbox at the middle of map, which led to very long and frequent travels before and after each assault. But i managed to haul some meals and repair/rearming mats closer to killbox in one quiet day. Most of attacks was mechs in all kind of shape and forms. Only 2 or 3 human raids. And 2 last assaults was very easy - mixed mech drop at the base with only 2 centipedes + few lancers/scythers and very weak siege with like 20 or 30 mans.
Also, about last chance weaponry. Got only one tornado generator and one orbital bombardment device for entire 5 years. Most of quest rewards this run was nearly useless. Nerfed?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: zizard on July 28, 2018, 05:18:10 PM
Can we get a symbol on the boxes for which type of body part they are? The quality mod RJW has this feature.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42913
I did it...
Can we get several arrows pointing to each transport pod in this event? The description is very clear, which I appreciate, but the one arrow draws attention away from the other pods, someone could potentially get tunnel vision and miss the other ones. That almost happened to me before I started scanning the map.
Also, I'm seeing a few visual glitches. The corpses under the elephants freak out a bit when I zoom in and out.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: ticket on July 29, 2018, 01:28:30 PM
The only thing giving Elvira happiness is building a limestone chessboard, which takes 803 work to complete (that seems pretty high for a chessboard, no?)
Building stone objects always takes a long time. Beds, doors, tables, joy objects. Use wood if you want it to go fast
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough, Lost tribes
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, Mountainous, Dirt Road, Huge River
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age: 204 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10ish hours
Complete mod list: none
https://i.imgur.com/FvOC44j.jpg
I've played Rimworld for 1000+ hours and Infestation event is so tedious and unfun it makes me want to quit every time it happens.
When I was a young Rimworlder, my very first infestation was unexpected and kind of fun. It was a few hives and a few bugs inside my base and I set up my colonists and dealt with it and it was a minor accomplishment. Then it happened again, and I dealt with it again. Then again. By the 4th time I was bored and done with it.
In some huge colonies I've played in the past, with around 100 coloninsts, I've had over 1000 bugs spawn from one event. Literally 1000.
The problem is that when it spawns, I know I'm going to be microing 30+ pawns and possibly animals, unpausing for 1 second, then microing them all again, then unpausing again, etc. I'm going to be doing that for the next 1-2 hours IRL. I don't have time for this shit, I'm supposed to be having fun here and this is the opposite of it. Because of this, I always have infestations turned off. (turned them back on for now just because test version etc)
In the above screenshot, there are 29 colonists vs. NINETEEN hives. Each hive produces 5+ bugs. That's over 100 hyper-hostile, OP melee guys running through my base. Now, I can probably set up a defense and ride it out, but they will destroy my stockpile, all of my colonists and animals will be dead or injured, and it will take me 2-3 hours IRL. Tedious, boring, game-ending nonsense, either ending my game outright or just ending my will to play it. I console killed them all.
Why does this event need to be so cataclysmic and game-ending? This is by far the most dangerous event in the game, leaps and bounds above everything else. Why is it not in line with other events, like raids? Shit on this scale should happen ONCE per game, if at all. This level of infestation is on the level of difficulty of the final spaceship rush. Here are my suggestions to make Infestation not a total turd of an event.
1) Make 2-3 hives spawn across the map, but increase their reproductive rate by 500% (capped at some point like the poison wave from the mechanoid ship). So the player has to go deal with it relatively quickly outside their base before it becomes the 100+ bug monstrosity.
2) Have 2-3 hives spawn inside the player base, but make them only come with non-hostile drones and a few warrior insects, which are passive until attacked. The drones will roam around your base in a small area looking for food. When they find food, they take it back to the hives and turn it into jelly. Whatever jelly isn't eaten by the bugs can be collected by the player. If the drones can't find any food, then the warriors start attacking creatures in the environment in order to turn them into food. If the player ever attacks the bugs, they all become hostile and all the 100+ megaspiders and whatnot come charging out of the hives.
It's a tradeoff. You can feed the drones and let them make jelly for you, at the expense of whatever room(s) they spawned in basically becomes theirs and you need to then build around them. Or, you can set up a prepared defense inside your base while keeping them occupied until you have time and inclination to deal with the 100+ bug monstrosity. Or if you like the 2-3 hours of tedious microing, you can just attack them right away and deal with them right away, as it is currently.
You can also have the hive grow gradually as you feed it, so you have to choose when to deal with it before it becomes too big to handle.
3) Have a bunch of hives spawn inside the player base, but instead of spawning 100+ hostile bugs, they spawn 100+ non-hostile bugs that do nothing but run around and shit everywhere. Just run around your base creating filth until you kill them all. They would flee when attacked. They would also mate with each other and reproduce fast, so if you don't get them all very quick you can expect more little ones. They would produce no jelly and almost no meat. It'd be more of a psychic-drone level event.
4) A series of events combining the above, culminating in the 100+ bug monstrosity swarm. When you dig into the mountain, the game warns you that you might trigger a hive. If you keep digging, then you get the filth swarm, which the game informs you is because of your digging. If you keep digging after that, then you get the docile jelly-producers, which the game informs you is because of your digging. If you keep digging after that, then you get the 100+ assrape monstrosity swarm. If you *stop* digging, then future infestations never happen. Also, bugs should never spawn in the same area twice, so you can sort of predict and prepare for where you might have to deal with them in the future. If you beat the monstrosity swarm, then congratulations, you beat the bugs and they never return.
Until Infestation is vastly reworked, I'll go back to disabling it.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Believe me 19 hives is still nothing... And you don't want to have hives multiply at x5 rate. Just nope.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 28, 2018, 12:15:26 PM
Randy rough tribal
Temperate 50/60 small hills
Permadeath
First summer, I restarted when I got errors on my last save
5 to 10 hours played
Hugs lib, skylights, memorable aurora, Infestation disabled
I took my first gourmand on a start. The first day they went into a food binge and ate all my pemmican. Luckily about the 4th day a cargo pod of 40 nutrient paste fell from the sky. My tribals were less happy than I was lol.
My previous playthrough I didn't have predators, so I was happy to see them this time. On a tribal they help you get food and leather you need. I have noticed that the leather drop decreased.
Tribal cooks will take meals from restricted stacks if they placed it in there. I was trying to get them to focus on the paste meals by restricting the simple meals, but the cooks would grab from the restricted stack having just placed it.
Food poisoning is definitely reduced. I didn't get a metal floor this time, so I built on rough sandstone. I can't seem to find any dirt on it, the option never appears to clean. It has to be dirty by now, it has been days. But I don't get dirty kitchen food poisoning, just incompetent cook.
Now headed into second spring. I now have about 10 people, mostly from chased refugees. Two recruited pirates. I still get crashed escape pods, but they are always for the rough outlander faction. They aren't interesting enough to keep, and my colony is doing ok anyway. Released for faction gain. I haven't got electricity yet, so I don't want to grow too expansively.
In the relations tab it states that if the faction goodwill falls below 0, the rough outlanders will become hostile. However, it naturally fell to -4 and they remained neutral.
I got my first 1.0 fallout. I was pretty worried, but it ended after only about 10 days. I had a colony full of cats that randomly joined. I kept them because I was hoping a bulk trader would come buy them. I slaughtered them for food. One had Initial fallout, and it didn't instantly rot, so the rot must be a higher level of fallout. The animals that died in the fields later all rotted immediately. I tried allowing my growers to only work uncovered in the fields, but the plants died faster than they grew even in rich soil. So, I set my colonists to making blocks and building a greenhouse (skylights mod). Since the fallout only lasted 10 days, I never needed it. The tribals just finished building it and are still installing the glass, but the fallout has ended. I thought I got lucky because I got a bulk goods trader. I had tons of leftover leather left around from a year of no bulk traders, and I bought them out of stock. I got the notice they were leaving just as I got the notice the fallout was settling.
My version of randy seems to enjoy paste meals. I got 24 that dropped during the fallout. I did what I did before and restricted the better stuff to make them eat them before they went bad. I am amazed at the lengths colonists will go to avoid them. The only food they prefer less is unsafe raw food or veggies. The cooks did the thing again where they grabbed from restricted piles after just placing a meal. Everyone else literally got to the point where their food bar was almost in the starving range before they would even consider grabbing the paste meals. They definitely refused to carry extra of them in inventory. It was like watching stubborn children trying to not eat their vegetables, lol.
Rough stone is a great thing to build your kitchen on top of. As I noted above, it never gets dirty. With their fallout free time, my builders spent time smoothing my kitchen, and now I have to keep it clean. bummer.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 29, 2018, 03:57:03 PM
Believe me 19 hives is still nothing... And you don't want to have hives multiply at x5 rate. Just nope.
Hives anyway much better than inferno centipedes drops into your craft room or drugs stockpile. ;D
Quote from: Aszh on July 29, 2018, 03:38:15 PM
--SNIP--
The problem is that when it spawns, I know I'm going to be microing 30+ pawns and possibly animals, unpausing for 1 second, then microing them all again, then unpausing again, etc. I'm going to be doing that for the next 1-2 hours IRL. I don't have time for this shit, I'm supposed to be having fun here and this is the opposite of it. Because of this, I always have infestations turned off. (turned them back on for now just because test version etc)
In the above screenshot, there are 29 colonists vs. NINETEEN hives. Each hive produces 5+ bugs. That's over 100 hyper-hostile, OP melee guys running through my base. Now, I can probably set up a defense and ride it out, but they will destroy my stockpile, all of my colonists and animals will be dead or injured, and it will take me 2-3 hours IRL. Tedious, boring, game-ending nonsense, either ending my game outright or just ending my will to play it. I console killed them all.
--SNIP--
(Cassandra Survival Struggle, 40/60 mountainous temperate forest, non-commitment mode, 640 days colony age, ~20h in the last 3 days, no mods)
29 hives vs 19 colonists is not a big problem if your layout & preparation (zones prepared etc) is good - having a dedicated SAFETY zone for Animals (in my case, the hospital, which is outside the area hives usually spawn in) helps a TON with animal micro...
I'm running with 19 colonists aswell, and current infestations are ~45 hives on a regular base, the last patch with more concentrated hive spawning helped a LOT with the overall survivability - I do dislike the infestations aswell, but it's less of a micro issue than the week of cleanup after an infestation
(1) Prepare for hives spawning in the walkways, i.e. bonus (usually forbidden) doors between rooms where colonists can safely travel
(2) Prepare Zones where you can avoid microing animals & "useless" colonists
(3) know your colonists and what to do...
I work with 3-wide paths in- & outside the base, with the main entrance outside being 5 wide.
3 Melees (power armor + shield belt + spear/longsword, decent quality) for the initial contact and being a line of initial defense
6 Pawns behind them (2x3 block) with decent chain shotguns (no power armor, no flak vests) for close support
6 more Pawns behind those (another 2x3 block) with charge lances (no power armor / flak vests either) for picking off insects further away...
Shooting Skill decides the weapon use - 0-6 gets a minigun (since skill doesn't matter for those), 7-11 gets a chain shotgun & everything above an assault rifle or charge lance
that layout means 15/19 colonists in use, means I can have my pacifists & nudists running around without participating in the fight, and it doesn't even use animals
Some impressions from the last infestation(s) - Kaori died during the 2nd because she was having a smokeleaf binge before the infestation started and was subsequently cut down in the process, nothing I really could've done, ressurector mech serum got her back soon afterwards...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/225277682353438720/471757279084150784/20180724185837_1.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/225277682353438720/471757382712557570/20180725203403_1.jpg
Current base looks like this - did some further infestation proofing - all that matters is preparation & having options
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/225277682353438720/473225963866423296/20180729223029_1.jpg
Also: bugged debug graphs (I guess it's because the colony is older than the debug graph feature), see attachment
[attachment deleted due to age]
Thanks, but I don't need help killing the event. I can kill the event. I need help not being terminally bored by the event.
But Talys give a good advice how to deal with infestations in few minutes instead of few hours and without boring micro/pausing.
Now that trap corridors aren't horribly OP, I don't think mountain infestations need to be so insane. You're not really getting as much from living under the mountains these days.
Quote from: Greep on July 29, 2018, 05:18:32 PM
Now that trap corridors aren't horribly OP, I don't think mountain infestations need to be so insane. You're not really getting as much from living under the mountains these days.
I'd go further and say "now that trap corridors aren't a thing anymore". And yep, insect could use a well deserved nerf. They either absolutely destroy you, or it turns into a long moping up session.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: merciless struggle
Biome/hilliness: flat tropical swamp with a large river
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 149
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20
Complete mod list: no mods
My starting pawn Soto was an industrious crafter and grower and otherwise poor skills. She recruited the first raider, named Freeman. He was good with a rifle and a capable crafter.
The colonists hunted animals for food and pelts. Freeman went to a nearby settlement to sell animal fur clothes and buy much needed medicine, but it turned out that he was incapable of trading so he had to return.
Soon after returning Freeman got gut worms. They spent spent a few more days hunting and crafting clothing. Soto then left to finally make a trade. While she was away, Freeman fell ill with the sleeping sickness. This was bad. While herbal medicine was available, Freeman was also incapable of doctoring.
Soto bought an assault rifle, some chemfuel and a lot of medicine and hurried back. Hours after starting the return trip, she contracted the plague. While she was a poor doctor, the high quality medicine was enough to cure her. Due to these recent unpleasant events, she also had a mental breakdown, which halted her travelling and resulted in er running out of food.
Freeman repelled a one-man raid and went back to bed, only to also contract the plague. Now he had gut worms, a progressing sleeping sickness and the plague.
When Soto returned, the plague was already extreme and Freeman had only hours to live. Shortly after burying Freeman, Soto contracted the flu.
Several weeks later, a super soldier named Sharr joined. Besides shooting and melee, he isn't good for much but at least he could research unlike Soto who was incapable of intellectual work.
Sharr returned from a successful item stash mission with an excellent charge rifle and a bionic heart.
Soto was so impressed she fell in love with Sharr.
Day 104: Soto and Sharr announce their marriage. Soto has the bionic heart installed. Soto's old heart is placed in storage.
Day 121: a great elephant hunt comes to an end. The colony now has over thousand elephant leather and 10 tusks.
Day 128: While Soto was on a trade mission, pirates attack. They are repelled easily, but while chasing the remaining pirates, a stray bullet hit an elephant in a nearby herd, and they all turn manhunter. Sharr and Jaguar stand no chance and are downed immediately. After a while, Sharr manages to stand up again. Jaguar and two raiders are incapable of walking and bleeding to death. The elephants are circling the base and there is no way to make it back to the base, so Sharr sets up a hospital on the spot to treat Jaguar. Then he tries to treat his own wounds but loses consciousness halfway through. Back at the base, Boomrat is trying to kill the elephants but makes little progress. During the night, the elephants finally calm down and Boomrat rescues Sharr and Jaguar. Unfortunately Boomrat is incapable of doctoring and so Sharr bleeds out.
In the morning, shortly after Sharr's burial, another raid arrives. Only Boomrat is capable of fighting, and most of the traps are down due to the elephants. Boomrat tries his best but takes a bit too much risk, receives a headshot and is incapacitated. The raiders decide to kidnap him and leave. The prison is burning and prisoner Betty dies. The potato field is burning. Jaguar is somehow still not infected but he is too weak to stand and severely starved. Soto has a mental breakdown because her husband died. Aside from the prison, the base is intact. During the night, sparks from a short circuit set the textile stockpile in the base on fire. So now the base is burning from the inside. Soto comes home to a ruined base, and everyone dead or kidnapped. She butchers an elephant, eats the raw flesh and then collapses.
Soto begins reconstructing the base but catches malaria. Fortunately she brought some medicine back from the trip. Later she has a mental breakdown, goes on a wake-up binge, becomes addicted and prompty overdoses.
Several days later, Soto gets sleeping sickness begins experiencing withdrawal symptoms as there is no more wake-up left.
Another several days later, a psychiatric patient on the run from town guards joins the colony. Unfortunately she is incapable of caring, social and violence and therefore more a liability than a help, so I immediately sacrifice her to the RNG god.
The downward spiral continues, and Soto eventually collapses outside after multiple mental breakdowns and starves to death. The colony lasted 149 days.
(can we please get rid of "incapable of", thanks. It is so immersion breaking to have a pawn that cannot trade at all for no good reason, or won't do doctoring even if his friends will die, or prefers dying over cooking)
One thing with having repeated infestations is it does a lot of combat/medical skill training with fairly low risk. Hives can net be a resource. The only time they are a bad event is when your not ready or at higher wealth levels. Adding or removing a few walls can be used as a switch. I don't play mountains, but most maps have at least one place with DM.
Quote from: Greep on July 29, 2018, 05:18:32 PM
Now that trap corridors aren't horribly OP, I don't think mountain infestations need to be so insane. You're not really getting as much from living under the mountains these days.
Tradeoff between possible grenade or centipedes drop in middle of base and just a silly bugs already worth it. Even in current state.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 29, 2018, 05:28:04 PM
I'd go further and say "now that trap corridors aren't a thing anymore". And yep, insect could use a well deserved nerf. They either absolutely destroy you, or it turns into a long moping up session.
I don't think they are such a problem. However they do indeed cause massive amounts of dirt which is really annoying. Taking out the hives is also very very annoying. It would be great if active hives would get auto-target by pawns. My shift key is about to break from all the queued up orders.
Awe - I know that you don't need help dealing with infestations your way - but infestations twice or even thrice the size of yours can be dealt within less than 10 minutes (at most)... and that was what I was trying to show you
Less Micro with a similar (or better) result
Syrchalis - Yeah, the amount of dirt infestations cause is the point that annoys me more than the event happening - no matter how quickly and well you defend against the insects, it'll still require several days of cleanup afterwards
Well if you open the doors to your base w/ hold open and fire foam it like you should, drop pods are somewhat manageable. The mechanoids just walk out and get shot by turrets. I think the issue is everyone's immediate reaction to fighting drop pods is to fight them inside to stop the carnage. This only leads to tears ::)
Really sucks if you're giving someone surgery during it though. >:(
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 29, 2018, 05:43:56 PM
I don't think they are such a problem. However they do indeed cause massive amounts of dirt which is really annoying. Taking out the hives is also very very annoying. It would be great if active hives would get auto-target by pawns. My shift key is about to break from all the queued up orders.
If you have armored melees they're annoying but fine, i guess, if RNG s on your side. If you don't - they're awful, but then again without armor everything is awful nowdays... But i agree they're not nearly as annoying as cheesy mechanoid drops on your head. I loathe those.
Quote from: Talys on July 29, 2018, 05:46:21 PM
Awe - I know that you don't need help dealing with infestations your way - but infestations twice or even thrice the size of yours can be dealt within less than 10 minutes (at most)... and that was what I was trying to show you
Less Micro with a similar (or better) result
Im ok with infestations. Deal with them in same way - block door/hall with heavy armored melee guys and just shoot from behind. Only thing i dont like - is looking for hives. Im always skip some, under corpses or between full stockpiles. :P
Quote from: Greep on July 29, 2018, 05:48:04 PM
Well if you open the doors to your base w/ hold open and fire foam it like you should, drop pods are somewhat manageable. The mechanoids just walk out and get shot by turrets. I think the issue is everyone's immediate reaction to fighting drop pods is to fight them inside to stop the carnage. This only leads to tears ::)
They are broke benches so fast... and restoring all bills is so painful. :'(
I think psychic drones honestly didn't need to be touched.
This is gonna be annoying.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough, naked brutality
Biome/hilliness: Boreal tundra, large hills
Commitment mode: hell no
Current colony age (days): ~45
Hours played in the last 2 days: no idea
Complete mod list: none
I've been keeping a log of my activities over this playthrough, which has thus far seemed much harder than I ever remember on Randy Rough (naked brutality has been my goto start -as a custom start- for a very long time). A couple of feedback points:
- I really don't like the crafting/construction gates on shortbows and deadfall traps, particularly the former; without a bow it is next to impossible to hunt for food, and defending against a raid on your own in melee is just a roll of the dice. I came so close a number of times to losing my pawn and had to reload several times, and had to spend a lot of time and material grinding wooden clubs to advance my crafting just so I could hunt. We should at least be able to craft shortbows, if only awful ones, without having to have 2+ crafting skill.
- My constructors seem to be botching builds very regularly, maybe 20-30% of the time, despite both having construction 5+. Is this a bug?
- I do not like the new trap system at all. The forced large spacing and the extreme cost of replacing the things constantly makes them virtually useless. I end up losing more to random wildlife and mad animals than I do to raiders. My boreal forest is quickly going to be a boreal plain if I keep losing them at this rate!
- The longer door closing rate has not affected the effectiveness of door micro, it just makes it more micro intensive. Much preferred it as it was in B18.
- Food poisoning is still happening too often. It seems like one or more of my pawns has it every other day. It is largely due to "incompetent cook" but theres not much I can do about that; my cooks have skill 3 and 4 and neither have a passion, so it is a long grind to get their skill higher.
- I constructed a bluefur tribalwear hoping to get something decent to survive the winter (it's been -26C or lower for several game weeks!) but it only has a cold insulation of 10C. Surely it should be better than that??
Quote from: Greep on July 29, 2018, 06:20:37 PM
I think psychic drones honestly didn't need to be touched.
This is gonna be annoying.
This is kind of a broken event currently... The only thing to do is to have them bail the map for couple days. Which is annoying, but still less of a pain than having to deal with berserks trashing each other. And yeah i also think that scaling drones isn't a change that should be in this update.
I think there's too much of a focus on having non-"threat bigs" be threatening. They're usually not that bad but, they're already terrifying when in combination with a raid. They don't individually need to be as bad as a raid themselves to create "drama".
I thought Tynan said somewhere that there were no longer any -48 psychic drones?
Quote from: zizard on July 29, 2018, 06:36:55 PM
I thought Tynan said somewhere that there were no longer any -48 psychic drones?
That pawn is probably psychically sensitive, hence -54 on a high drone. If he was hypersensitive it would be even more ridiculous than that. Extreme drones still get up to -40 on a
normal pawn. So technically Tynan said the truth. As the one who whined more than others on that steam thread, i know about it a bit.
Quote from: giltirn on July 29, 2018, 06:21:49 PM
- My constructors seem to be botching builds very regularly, maybe 20-30% of the time, despite both having construction 5+. Is this a bug?
Check concussiones/manipulation/sight stats. If not 100% then you start to fail frequently. For example if pawn got poisoning or loose fingers its just better to avoid any skilled jobs until recovered.
Quote
- Food poisoning is still happening too often. It seems like one or more of my pawns has it every other day. It is largely due to "incompetent cook" but theres not much I can do about that; my cooks have skill 3 and 4 and neither have a passion, so it is a long grind to get their skill higher.
Crafting psychoid tea train cooking skill. Can be useful if you can grow a lot.
Base right now is -30, although this guy is psychically hypersensitive. But this isn't even the highest amount. At -40 he'll be at -72
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Survival struggle
Biome: warm Temperate Forest, small hills
Permadeath
220 days in, at 252k wealth
Maybe 12 hours played in the last 2 days.
Lost Tribe, no mods
This is the scenario where the Alpaca Swarm should be strongest. I have 67 alpacas, 21 labradors, and 16 royally inbred wargs, handled by two burningly passionate trainers. The game was tense early, before this armada was reliable, but since then, only a few events have been seriously threatening. But I know from previous games that raid size is about to pick up, so I'm not calling victory just yet.
I don't know why people say that bonded animals are a negative. I counted the moodlets after a rough serious of battles, and my colonists had 5x +5 modifiers for having their favorite animals, and 3x -8 modifiers for having lost others. It washes out.
Choosing guns for the herdmasters is difficult. Of course my best shooters get charge/assault rifles or sniper rifles. But I feel like giving my bad shooters chain shotguns will create more alpacaburgers than I can stomach. Pump shotguns have higher accuracy, I think.
I've been trying to mix turrets and traps in with my defenses, with some success.
The mini-turrets don't kill much, but they pin down enemies long enough for me to position for the charge.
The auto-cannon is too expensive to feel good as a sacrificial front line, and small mistakes with letting it shoot at a brawl cost limbs or lives.
I feel like I should make a whole lattice of IED traps - they do serious damage.
Caravans feel great. I've done sales tours, trade requests, and a couple missions. I also backed out of a rescue mission that I didn't bring enough firepower for.
One of my melee colonists stepped too close to a scyther and got his waist cut off. Umm... he can't wear a shield belt anymore. I like to imagine him with his upper body just hovering 10 cm over his hips. I spent a healer mech serum on it, but it restored a missing finger instead. Dang.
Quote from: Awe on July 29, 2018, 06:39:45 PM
Crafting psychoid tea train cooking skill. Can be useful if you can grow a lot.
That's a good idea, I'll keep it in mind for the next time. Unfortunately I have only 20 days of growing time on my boreal tundra so it would have been difficult to take advantage of that from the start. I guess I'll just have to weather it.
Quote from: Greep on July 29, 2018, 06:40:45 PM
Base right now is -30, although this guy is psychically hypersensitive. But this isn't even the highest amount. At -40 he'll be at -72
Funny thing is that psychic helmet is -90% sens, so even with one of those your guy will have total 90% sens. The new drone levels made hypersens instant reject for me.
Quote from: Madman666 on July 29, 2018, 06:39:06 PM
That pawn is probably psychically sensitive, hence -54 on a high drone. If he was hypersensitive it would be even more ridiculous than that. Extreme drones still get up to -40 on a normal pawn. So technically Tynan said the truth. As the one who whined more than others on that steam thread, i know about it a bit.
True, it's even technically true if the amount were to be increased!
Can flagstone be balanced at some point? Feel gypped for even thinking about it, but mainly use them to spice up base (for me). Don't always want to lay down concrete now since the need for steel increased.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Scenario: Crashlanded (but all starting pawns 65 or older)
Difficulty: Survival Struggle
Biomes:
Main base - Ice Sheet (mountainous, -8C to -58C seasonal)
Outpost - Tundra (flat, 5C to -43C seasonal)
Commitment mode: Yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: 14-18?
Complete mod list: Core, More Faction Interaction (playtesting)
642 days in, 511k wealth (459.5k main + 52.1k outpost), 22 colonists (18 main + 4 outpost)
So, with the commonality and scale of centre-drop mechanoid raids in the late game, it's actually gotten to the point where the insides of my base are becoming as heavily-fortified as my actual main defences. I guess it's just adaptation to the changes thus far, but here are a few screenshots of the fortifications being made:
Launch station (both shells and cargo):
(https://i.imgur.com/aHKXjcd.png)
Wind/solar farm/landing zone from outpost:
(https://i.imgur.com/ykM5O2U.png)
Freezer:
(https://i.imgur.com/PU5Sr1t.png)
I may be slightly overdoing it, but it is how, as a player, I feel I'd best protect the chances of getting that ship escape successfully done.
Oh, and attached some graphs too!
[attachment deleted due to age]
The thing with psychic drones is - I have little problems with them on normal pawns. Like, they dip into minor break risk if they are generally well, otherwise they are brutal. And that is kind of the problem with them. If they were weaker they could be ignored - or in a bad situation still make it almost certain doom. If they were even stronger then they would be a huge issue with no reliable counter, since foil helmets aren't that readily available.
Honestly, the whole "psychically sensitive" trait line is one of those that barely ever play a role. It's like the gay trait - I think those should be "minor" traits, traits that everyone has 100% of the time, but that aren't part of their actual traits.
And if everyone always had resistance or vulnerability to psychic events they would be much more severe on some and much less on others. This would fix the balance issue, because vulnerable pawns would need special care no matter the circumstances (aka creating stories) and resilient pawns would only really be affected if their mood is particularly poor anyway. This also means you need very few psychic foil helmets if the drones really give you trouble - because on average you will have 1:1 ratio of vulnerable to resistant pawns, and female to male. So on average only a quarter of the colonists would be affected.
Not saying this would make the drones easier, but it would make them more fun.
This is why the caravan system feels like a clunky joke right now.
Situation - its about 8 PM, my people are getting tired, in case of ambush or other encounter I would prefer they not go in at -12 mood due to being tired.
Ah, ok, there's this nice rest button. I click it. But instead they are sitting around campfire singing kumbaya instead of resting. Of course.
"But its not 10 pm yet! Of course we cannot rest!"
In a game where resources were tight, this can straight up cost you days worth of meals. In early game caravan scenarios where I commit a far higher % of my pawns onto caravan, this is very significant.
(https://i.imgur.com/tuSR6sF.png)
Maybe the solution is to make everyone sick before going on caravan, so they can actually rest when I click the rest button?
(https://i.imgur.com/QzXnPsf.png)
By the way, I loaded bedrolls too. Of course they are not used. Maybe this has to do with me manually loading them after starting up the caravan?
Combination of uncomfortable, lack of consistent recreation control measure, people randomly not resting - instead of calling it caravan you can call it "mental break storytelling generator"
Yeah but you keep resetting your game because of broken mods syrchalis :P Have you gotten into the end game? They get quite annoying at higher levels.
Mine wasn't too bad but could have been much worse:
@xeo. That's pretty hardcore. How are you dealing with infestations? Growing outside the mountains to keep your mountains cold? I guess you could just kill your plants and freeze them though.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: bbqftw on July 29, 2018, 08:35:24 PM
This is why the caravan system feels like a clunky joke right now.
Situation - its about 8 PM, my people are getting tired, in case of ambush I would prefer they not go in at -12 mood due to being tired.
Ah, ok, there's this nice rest button. I click it. But instead they are sitting around campfire singing kumbaya instead of resting. Of course.
...
Maybe the solution is to make everyone sick before going on caravan, so they can actually rest when I click the rest button?
...
I think that button needs a rename. I think it is specifically for letting the sick rest, and focusing on foraging.
You
can stop the caravan to actually rest though:
-Select the caravan.
-Right-click the world tile the caravan is on.
This should cancel their route and they will then rest as appropriate.
Once done resting:
-Select the caravan.
-Right-click the world tile the destination is on.
EDIT:
The downside to doing this is you will lose all of the travel the caravan made to get to the next tile.
(the caravan icon will "pop" back to the center of the tile, and will have to re-travel that distance to get to the next tile)
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Merciless struggle
Biome/hilliness: Arid shrubland, Flat
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 380
Hours played in the last 2 days: may be 15~20
Complete mod list: HugsLib, No Froced Slowdown, Numbers, Display Radius[1.0], Easy Speedup, Allow Tool, Lolidrop's hairshop
Scenario : Naked Brutality
Status: Escape to space.
Game version : 1977~1978
Save file : https://www.dropbox.com/s/pvohphgydtys8x6/fire.rws?dl=0
Map: https://i.imgur.com/ojIOzle.jpg
World Map: https://i.imgur.com/IlQp40B.jpg
The day was so hot and I did not have air conditioning at home so I used internet cafe. (In Korea, internet cafe is very common.) I came to experience the Rimworld Steam Cloud.The mod was automatically downloaded and the save file was surprisingly well shared. Of course, I had to install the mod which is not in Steam separately. One thing I regretted was that key binding did not apply to the cloud. I am sorry that I changed 5-6 keys and it is in use. I also want to include the key bindings in the cloud.
Zone change UI is required. Attach video. shift + zone change QOL is required.
https://youtu.be/be5fzej4lsY
Turrets are powerful but incompetent. Turrets are very helpful when the enemy is below a certain level. But it is too weak for enemies beyond a certain numbers. Maybe you will only be able to feel more than a certain property at the highest difficulty level. It is fatal to be unable to retreat when enemies are piled up. Especially in the last space ship reactor turn on attack. I would also like to spam the turret here, but it lacks uranium and steel. I still do not know how to use an effective turret. I think I should study more.
The utility of the trap has decreased a lot. Catch some enemies through 'fire net'. Usually used to protect the turret. The factor of consumability makes it difficult to spam.
The IED has been amazingly useful. To defend the sapper was very good and useful, even against the mechanoid. When an enemy clusters into killzone, colonist attacks the EMP IED is very effective. I can explode at the timing I want.
LMG was very good. Stopping power was fine. I used more than two at the end. It was very useful against scyther. However, I would like to raise the stopping power of the LMG to 1.2. Then stopping power to the insect will be very useful.(megaspider size is 1.2)
Shotguns have a long gap, making it difficult to have a stopping force. In addition, it is difficult to hit a single shot. Of course, it is powerful but it does not match the stopping power. The short range also makes it difficult to use. Armor hardening also weakened the shotgun. I think the developer needs to balance the shotgun.
The medicine now accumulates 25. Happy. I hated 75 nesting too much.
I'd like world map planning mode to tell me the straight line distance. It is necessary to calculate the fuel of the transpod.
It takes a long time to plant trees. Especially saguaro cactus is serious. It can be planted at narrow intervals and is much slower because it plantes so much.
world map I would like to have a confirmation window for the village attack button. It is very close to the trade button and is easy to push by mistake.
Set the mortar shell settings to copy or paste, or select multiple, all at once.
I want to see the world map town refresh information.
In the late game, caravan requested 79 bowlerhat. In late games, I think it is right to want a more high value product by eliminating low value product requests. And at high difficulty the value of things is different. Sometimes I get a very bad deal.
Is there any way to add specific items during the caravan configuration? I always forget bedroll.
This game was funny and there was not a lover. I even made a royal bed! HAHA........HA....HA....
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: bbqftw on July 29, 2018, 08:35:24 PM
This is why the caravan system feels like a clunky joke right now.
Situation - its about 8 PM, my people are getting tired, in case of ambush or other encounter I would prefer they not go in at -12 mood due to being tired.
Ah, ok, there's this nice rest button. I click it. But instead they are sitting around campfire singing kumbaya instead of resting. Of course.
"But its not 10 pm yet! Of course we cannot rest!"
In a game where resources were tight, this can straight up cost you days worth of meals. In early game caravan scenarios where I commit a far higher % of my pawns onto caravan, this is very significant.
(https://i.imgur.com/tuSR6sF.png)
Maybe the solution is to make everyone sick before going on caravan, so they can actually rest when I click the rest button?
(https://i.imgur.com/QzXnPsf.png)
By the way, I loaded bedrolls too. Of course they are not used. Maybe this has to do with me manually loading them after starting up the caravan?
Combination of uncomfortable, lack of consistent recreation control measure, people randomly not resting - instead of calling it caravan you can call it "mental break storytelling generator"
I had an issue before with colonists on caravan's saying they're using bedrolls but still at zero comfort, that seems to be fixed.
But yea, the "add to caravan" and "remove from caravan" buttons seem completely broken: when I try to add something, it results in them unloading everything else, and when I try to remove a person from a caravan it just cancels the entire bloody thing.
Quote from: erdrik on July 29, 2018, 08:45:51 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on July 29, 2018, 08:35:24 PM
This is why the caravan system feels like a clunky joke right now.
Situation - its about 8 PM, my people are getting tired, in case of ambush I would prefer they not go in at -12 mood due to being tired.
Ah, ok, there's this nice rest button. I click it. But instead they are sitting around campfire singing kumbaya instead of resting. Of course.
...
Maybe the solution is to make everyone sick before going on caravan, so they can actually rest when I click the rest button?
...
I think that button needs a rename. I think it is specifically for letting the sick rest, and focusing on foraging.
You can stop the caravan to actually rest though:
-Select the caravan.
-Right-click the world tile the caravan is on.
This should cancel their route and they will then rest as appropriate.
Once done resting:
-Select the caravan.
-Right-click the world tile the destination is on.
EDIT:
The downside to doing this is you will lose all of the travel the caravan made to get to the next tile.
(the caravan icon will "pop" back to the center of the tile, and will have to re-travel that distance to get to the next tile)
Does this force them to rest or will they still only rest if the hour is 10 pm ~ 8 am?
53 snipers chasing a naked refugee in -39C weather. Chased refugee is definitely the weirdest event now.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: bbqftw on July 29, 2018, 10:04:09 PM
Does this force them to rest or will they still only rest if the hour is 10 pm ~ 8 am?
Did a quick test, and it appears to be related to the pawn's rest bars not time.
I let the caravan rest all night, they awoke around 3h and I had them wait the entire next day. That next night they didn't rest until 22h.
Quote from: Polder on July 29, 2018, 05:30:03 PM
I'd like to see incapable changed to a kind of anti-passion where they have 0% learning rate and get a mood penalty for doing the work, so while they *can* perform the task, they can never get any better at it and take a mood penalty for doing it.
At the very least, I feel like feeding pawns should be under Basic or something and not Doctoring. Refusing to do medical work I can understand, but they won't even feed someone who is starving to death right in front of them, which is just really jarring and makes zero sense.
Apparently "drop at edge" is slang for "drop directly into the center of an ambush in a threat: none" sometimes. Lol. meals abandoned, about to abandon the lump run into the snow with no food ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
"Known threats: none" is misleading. Should be "Threats: unknown".
It'd be nice if "known threats: none" was in fact just none. Does anyone enjoy these ambushes? Late game I'm unable to even do the threats at lumps because it's like 20 manhunters or a full on fortress :-\ So my strategy for that is just building more scanners and never doing anything except potential ambushes and then just running if it is one.
It actually feels kind of lame that threats at lumps scales at all. Should I really be fighting large forces for a net of 1000 steel? If I have to launch like 10 pods there and back just to fight them, I will end up with basically nothing. If I had to fight over a dozen dudes and got 10,000 steel, then we'd be talking.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on July 29, 2018, 10:48:07 PM
At the very least, I feel like feeding pawns should be under Basic or something and not Doctoring. Refusing to do medical work I can understand, but they won't even feed someone who is starving to death right in front of them, which is just really jarring and makes zero sense.
"Incapable of caring"
I'll say.
Here here on that. I'll never understand "incapable of" though it's one of those things I'm leery to mod out because the game's (being) balanced around some of your people not doing some things. It's a flat out buff to the game giving them that option. I'd want to at least add something to offset it, be it a mood penalty, greater loss of supplies on failure, or what. I like the idea of not gaining xp on it so therefore just always being at level 0.
Quote from: Greep on July 29, 2018, 11:26:36 PM
It'd be nice if "known threats: none" was in fact just none. Does anyone enjoy these ambushes? Late game I'm unable to even do the threats at lumps because it's like 20 manhunters or a full on fortress :-\ So my strategy for that is just building more scanners and never doing anything except potential ambushes and then just running if it is one.
It actually feels kind of lame that threats at lumps scales at all. Should I really be fighting large forces for a net of 1000 steel? If I have to launch like 10 pods there and back just to fight them, I will end up with basically nothing. If I had to fight over a dozen dudes and got 10,000 steel, then we'd be talking.
I don't like ambushes at all. Honestly find it strange to even deal with threats when venturing to mineral map provided from scanner. It's why I don't even use it. If threats are scaling up then resource lumps should scale up if not already done so IMO.
Quote from: erdrik on July 29, 2018, 10:20:08 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on July 29, 2018, 10:04:09 PM
Does this force them to rest or will they still only rest if the hour is 10 pm ~ 8 am?
Did a quick test, and it appears to be related to the pawn's rest bars not time.
I let the caravan rest all night, they awoke around 3h and I had them wait the entire next day. That next night they didn't rest until 22h.
It seems thoroughly odd and bad that you can't control your pawns resting, since it feels like with the chance to get ambushed at any time you'd much rather have them be rested instead of having to roll for mental breaks during a fight.
Just one more reason I just don't feel that caravaning risk/reward is balanced at all, at least on merciless. There is already the risks of dealing with much more volatile situations than on the home map, it doesn't need to be mechanically cumbersome atop of that (hello -20 mood from poor recreation control, uncomfortable from randomly disappearing bedrolls, -6 to 12 mood from tiredness during fights)
I think there is potential there, just make it so that we're fighting the game's threats, not wrestling with the game's limitations.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 30, 2018, 12:20:19 AM
It seems thoroughly odd and bad that you can't control your pawns resting,...
To be fair you can't really directly control your pawn's resting even in the colony.
At best you can set a "sleep" restriction, but even then if they aren't tired they won't rest.
I do agree controlling the Caravan in general needs to be improved though.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate, flat, road, river
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 128
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~20
I like the idea of having a permanently hostile faction (pirates), but I feel like it takes something away from the game for there to be no benefit to treating the enemy wounded (I guess I could sell them as slaves, but IIRC there's a mood debuff from that, that doesn't seem worth the silver.) Perhaps it should be possible to ransom them? Or perhaps a tiny mood buff for setting them free (and perhaps a comparable mood penalty for bloodlust and incapable of caring colonists ;)
Currently I just leave pirates to die in the field, unless their bio looks good enough to recruit... But this doesn't really feel thematic if I don't want to play my own faction as an evil one.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty:Merciless Struggle
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest / Mountain
Commitment mode: (yes/no) Yes
Current colony age (days): 60
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10 hours?
Complete mod list: None
Quests are still not properly representing the challenge. Refugee Rescue quest: "Three turrets" was three turrets, 2 enemy pawns, and a mortar ... There was no shooting wires, even while dodging the turret, with one of the pawns attacking to flush my lonesome pawn out. I sent one pawn (out of only 3, due to a streak of bad luck,) with a bolt-action rifle ... not happening.
Also, I had the same three colonists, no prisoners, no animals -- Escaped refugee event has 12-13? enemies. Can't do that, even with my traps and such.
Quote from: dogthinker on July 30, 2018, 12:31:00 AM
Perhaps it should be possible to ransom them? Or perhaps a tiny mood buff for setting them free (and perhaps a comparable mood penalty for bloodlust and incapable of caring colonists ;)
Ransoming pirates, when treating and releasing them doesn't improve relations wouldn't make much sense - it means pirates just don't care about their grunts and won't give you anything. However, i like the idea of having a small lasting moodlet for treating and releasing a prisoner, similar to the one you have when you lose a prisoner, but positive one. And factions like outlanders and tribes could actually offer a ransom, since those do care about releasing\treating their pawns.
Sorry for being annoying with that, but I'd like to remind again that colonists not remembering when they slept once they went caravaning is still pretty damn annoying. :V
Hello, I experienced a mortar missing like 10 times against a psychic ship. Is it using a uniform distribution per tile for FMR? That would not be good because then it is actually more like to hit at the edge than at the centre. A normal distribution would be better.
Quote from: zizard on July 30, 2018, 02:44:12 AM
Hello, I experienced a mortar missing like 10 times against a psychic ship.
I had a guy shoot a mortar about 45 degrees off from where I aimed it. Then I stopped using mortars.
I think at one time it used to take like 10 shots to mortar a ship down to 50%. Now it seems to be like 3 hits. So even if it misses a lot it's pretty good.
I don't get the complaining about mortars. They feel just right to me. I have three in my camp, and with any raid, even the ones that move in directly, I manage to get at least one, and often multiple hits, doing significant damage. As for sieges, they very often manage to hit the enemy mortar shells, wiping out half the siege, and forcing the raiders to do a reckless charge at my defences. Even against mechanoid ships I find them sometimes useful, the emp mortar explosion radius is quite big, and the stun effect lasts almost as long as the recharge time of the mortar, and I can use my least capable pawns or wounded pawns to operate the mortars. With three mortars, at least some mechanoids are stunned during most of the fight, which makes a huge difference.
So again, I don't get the complaining. Sure, they don't solve any problem you have, but I'm glad they don't do that. Instead they are a nice asset that complements your other defenses, which is exactly what they should be in my opinion. I think people keep making the mistake of only using one mortar, seeing it miss a few times, and then concluding: well this is lame. Maybe something in the description like: "not very accurate, but effective when used on large groups, and with multiple of them" should be added to make this clear.
Hello the sole point was to aggro a psychic ship without getting storytold by lancers.
Quote from: zizard on July 30, 2018, 03:34:58 AM
Hello the sole point was to aggro a psychic ship without getting storytold by lancers.
Sure, but that's not the sole point of mortars. You can just use a fast pawn for that, with a long range weapon.
Quote from: Roolo on July 30, 2018, 03:38:14 AM
Quote from: zizard on July 30, 2018, 03:34:58 AM
Hello the sole point was to aggro a psychic ship without getting storytold by lancers.
Sure, but that's not the sole point of mortars. You can just use a fast pawn for that, with a long range weapon.
It is possible for a lancer to catch up and fire a shot at a non bionic colonist using a sniper rifle.
New build is up. No massive changes on this one, it's largely a tweaking and miscellaneous fixing build.
Feedback on gameplay stories is most useful, of course. Don't worry too much about the visuals. When you do post feedback please begin your post with this info:
Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome/hilliness:
Commitment mode: (yes/no)
Current colony age (days):
Hours played in the last 2 days:
Complete mod list:
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone!
----
Refinements to items visuals.
Merciless difficulty presented differently (click a button to unlock it, or it unlocks during play given certain play milestones).
Various fixes and balance tweaks.
Quote from: zizard on July 30, 2018, 03:39:09 AM
Quote from: Roolo on July 30, 2018, 03:38:14 AM
Quote from: zizard on July 30, 2018, 03:34:58 AM
Hello the sole point was to aggro a psychic ship without getting storytold by lancers.
Sure, but that's not the sole point of mortars. You can just use a fast pawn for that, with a long range weapon.
It is possible for a lancer to catch up and fire a shot at a non bionic colonist using a sniper rifle.
Sure, can happen. But that's no a reason for me to break the balance of mortars. PM me if you want to continue the discussion. This is not the right place.
Quote from: zizard on July 30, 2018, 03:39:09 AM
Quote from: Roolo on July 30, 2018, 03:38:14 AM
Quote from: zizard on July 30, 2018, 03:34:58 AM
Hello the sole point was to aggro a psychic ship without getting storytold by lancers.
Sure, but that's not the sole point of mortars. You can just use a fast pawn for that, with a long range weapon.
It is possible for a lancer to catch up and fire a shot at a non bionic colonist using a sniper rifle.
Several solutions to that. Mortars are not effective against ships for aggro/destroying purposes. I would normally spread out some wooden walls to run past after taking the shot. They can't aim and shoot in time if done right.
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 03:47:40 AM
Various fixes and balance tweaks.
I'd love to know what these changes are. If it's not too much hassle, can you add these next time?
What would fix a lot of the caravan issues would be allowing them to set up a small camp like in the mod. It allows you to fix their issues directly if there are any big ones.
It takes 3 hits to aggro a ship with mortars, just tested with a ship that landed, avg 10-15 shells. I think it got buffed substantially somewhere between b18 and 1.0, I remember it taking like 5-10 hits to bring them to 50%. And I used them for that purpose when they sucked. So there's really no need to change mortars. The early psychic ships are a pain, but usually we're talking like 3 lancers tops, 1-2 on medium. Use friendlies, spike traps, shields, whatever if you want to cheese it. Not saying this to argue just making sure another perspective is shown.
Randy - Rough - Commit: No
Mountain - Temperate Forest - Permanent Summer
play time: ~ >=1d8h of .1977
colony-map incidents:
-1 toxic fallout
-1 vocalnic winter
-2-3 ships
-1 map-edge mech drop pod
-1 inside-base scyther drop pod
-dozen of sapper raids
-2 infestations
-1-2 manhuntter pack
the start of the game seems unsual slow to me compare to .1961 or prior
the variety of raids & incidents seem not really diversified, most of the raids were sappers, be it pirate or tribe, which 'were so damn annoying than anything
and even if i covered the outside of the mountains with hundreds & hudreds of traps, litter them everywhere, somehow those sapper raids always chose the place that 'd yet got traps covered, not like any of them escaped after what they did to my beautiful mountain side and wasting those walls+mountain rocks resource by producing no chuck or block after digging -_-
the map seems abundant of wood though, more than what i saw than in previous .19xx, almost as much as swamp (of previous .19xx), though, the trees that i sow myself took forever to grew, meanwhile, wild trees 've been growing generations over & over, why 'd i want to sow my all trees again if they don't even grow as fast?
drop pod 's ever happen once, the very last incident, a few cythers dropping in the indoor farm
ships only ever happened 3 times, if not 2, infestations happened twice, i'd rather 've bugs rather than sappers -_- in contrast to my run in .1961 (Tundra - Medium - Mountain - Randy - 10/60), the raids in .1961 instead were always mechs, mechs drop pods, ships, coupled with a few infestations
i got the toxic fallout at the start of the game, coupled with vocalnic winter shortly at the end of the fallout, which changed nothing since i got everything inside, and well, the fallout ended before the winter too
caravaning reward also rather lacking, i ignored a whole lot of caravan requests, outposts, rescuings and whatnot, except for the 2 relation-incapacitate calls, luckily, not from useless pawns, & some that give stuff that i can't get from making myself
overall, eventhough it's Rough Randy, it's ratively peaceful, easy, but annoying with all the sappers
i play heavy trap instead of turrets so the rebuiding traps & cutting stones, chopping woods took all the time of the colonists
i have a team of 6 constructors, 1 constant stone-cutters & they don't even have enough time to cut all the blocks needed, chopping all the wood needed, & build all the traps needed, let alone all the smoothing floor in order & the very-needed-but-always-at-the-very-end-of-constructing-order smoothing wall
so except for the last 1/2 year, in which all the constructions finally be done & they finally come to smooth the wall so i can expand the power grid, or dig the stones out so i can fashion some bedrooms, 3/4 of the team 'd been staying what now actually the hospital & suffered disturbances
https://imgur.com/a/1kSx7ua
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 355 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
Debug Graphs/Notes for v.1978
-Only one gameplay note, observed since before the weekend:
Despite a concerted attempt to prevent them, the number of mental breaks in-game is extraordinarily high, averaging about 1 every 1 to 2 game days, from a wide range of colonists. I can't pinpoint what the root cause is, but I've never had this frequency of Mental Breaks in any game prior to this. I'll be looking for some sort of discernable pattern in the next few days of play.
Graphs:
(https://i.imgur.com/PqhQBrX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/DFvnhzA.png)
I noticed when I played that visitors you rescued that got 5 medicine skill or more tend their own wounds if they can in a patient bed. I mean, I got a way better doctor and ability to use medicine :s .
Maybe at least let them use medicine from your stocks since you rescued them.
Edit: Something must had broke. Rescued another one who got downed by a Iguana. When Dax were tending Turtle, he suddenly stood up and started tending himself.
Screenshot (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ol7983kcpe2qtbo/20180730125432_1.jpg?dl=1)
Relevant log error and warning
Could not reserve Thing_Human115893 (layer: null) for Turtle for job TendPatient (Job_958316) A=Thing_Human115893 (now doing job TendPatient (Job_958316) A=Thing_Human115893(curToil=-1)) for maxPawns 1 and stackCount -1. Existing reserver: Dax doing job TendPatient (Job_957607) A=Thing_Human115893 B=Thing_MedicineHerbal116037 (toilIndex=5)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:78)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:LogCouldNotReserveError(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:685)
Verse.AI.ReservationManager:Reserve(Pawn, Job, LocalTargetInfo, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationManager.cs:359)
Verse.AI.ReservationUtility:Reserve(Pawn, LocalTargetInfo, Job, Int32, Int32, ReservationLayerDef, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Reservation\ReservationUtility.cs:40)
RimWorld.JobDriver_TendPatient:TryMakePreToilReservations(Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\AI\JobDrivers\Heal\JobDriver_TendPatient.cs:39)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:270)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:CheckForJobOverride() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:465)
RimWorld.<LayDown>c__AnonStorey0:<>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\AI\JobDrivers\SatisfyNeeds\Toils_LayDown.cs:135)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:345)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:131)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:557)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:303)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:267)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:512)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
TryMakePreToilReservations() returned false for a non-queued job right after StartJob(). This should have been checked before. curJob=TendPatient (Job_958316) A=Thing_Human115893
Verse.Log:Warning(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:59)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:StartJob(Job, JobCondition, ThinkNode, Boolean, Boolean, ThinkTreeDef, Nullable`1, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:322)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:CheckForJobOverride() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:465)
RimWorld.<LayDown>c__AnonStorey0:<>m__1() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\RimWorld\AI\JobDrivers\SatisfyNeeds\Toils_LayDown.cs:135)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\JobDrivers\JobDriver.cs:345)
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\AI\Pawn_JobTracker.cs:131)
Verse.Pawn:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Pawn\Pawn.cs:557)
Verse.TickList:Tick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickList.cs:125)
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:303)
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Ticking\TickManager.cs:267)
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Game\Game.cs:512)
Verse.Root_Play:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Play.cs:99)
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Tundra/ small hills
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: 240 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~12
Complete mod list: None
And so tundra adventure ends!
I was kind of annoyed with the whole wealth/adaptation so I wanted to see how this played out without worrying about it quite so much and playing well.
This is the result: 2 years in: 5 dudes with pistols following a few deaths and before wealth gains. 4 years in: unstoppable swarms of 18+ centipedes over and over, to the point where I just got bored and essentially gave up.
At the first 14 swarm of centipedes I spent like 20 minutes carefully calling friendlies and shelling/sniping, then I got dozens of scythers and centipedes in a ship and that took forever as well. Mixed groups of mechs were doable without traps, but swarms of centipedes meant I had to go outside and snipe them as that is not at all possible with turrets and a half dozen charge lances. When the next one hit with over 18 centipedes I just got bored and had everyone punch them to death. Rather amusingly, one of the friendlies in that example got into melee range during fleeing and started punching the centipedes and actually survived for like 10 seconds straight. I probably could have managed with careful use of emps and maybe mortar spamming, but I was getting serious raid fatigue at this point. I was just imagining fighting 20 centipides in the next 20 minutes and said "nope!" Or I could have sent in a sacrificial lamb to halve the adaptation, and gifted all of my excessive wealth but this metagaming is getting seriously lame.
Edit: fixed cutoff fun points in chart.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Jibbles on July 29, 2018, 07:58:32 PM
Can flagstone be balanced at some point? Feel gypped for even thinking about it, but mainly use them to spice up base (for me). Don't always want to lay down concrete now since the need for steel increased.
FYI main design purpose of flagstone is for pre-generated roads.
Just pushed a quick bonus update with the new "Stranger in Black" who gives you a hand when you're really in trouble.
Mysterious stranger! Getting those Fallout vibes.
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 07:43:10 AM
FYI main design purpose of flagstone is for pre-generated roads.
I personally use them everywhere anybody walks outside. Never really thought they were way too expensive though it does seem odd that they cost what tiles cost yet are uglier. I guess they lay faster which is the benefit.
So if not flagstone, what is the intended outside flooring solution? And what is the intended method for preventing trees from growing under wind farms? I always use flagstone for that because solar panels don't fit perfectly nor do you really need that many solar panels per turbine. I know I could just throw wood flooring everywhere (assuming I'm not in a desert or ice sheet) but let's assume I don't want to.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 30, 2018, 09:10:55 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 07:43:10 AM
FYI main design purpose of flagstone is for pre-generated roads.
I personally use them everywhere anybody walks outside. Never really thought they were way too expensive though it does seem odd that they cost what tiles cost yet are uglier. I guess they lay faster which is the benefit.
So if not flagstone, what is the intended outside flooring solution? And what is the intended method for preventing trees from growing under wind farms? I always use flagstone for that because solar panels don't fit perfectly nor do you really need that many solar panels per turbine. I know I could just throw wood flooring everywhere (assuming I'm not in a desert or ice sheet) but let's assume I don't want to.
well, put dump stockpile with chunks+blocks in it, or just put a farm zone in :p
Last post hit the screenshot size limit, so I couldn't fit in the insane outlander fleer. It's pretty hilarious so I thought I'd share it.
Esme... Esme I think you ran the wrong way.
[attachment deleted due to age]
How do you enable merciless now? I refuse to play on anything less difficult.
Quote from: Andy_Dandy on July 30, 2018, 09:53:23 AM
How do you enable merciless now? I refuse to play on anything less difficult.
The button's at the bottom of the storyteller select screen in the middle.
I'm curious why you refuse to ever try a lower difficulty? This is something I've observed in various forms and it's worth understanding the motivation.
Quote from: Greep on July 30, 2018, 06:34:18 AM
4 years in: unstoppable swarms of 18+ centipedes over and over, to the point where I just got bored and essentially gave up.
Sniper turrets + killbox = easy solution to centipedes. I launched ship under pressure of 15-20 centipedes almost every day. 1 deep uranium deposit provide more than enough mats to rearm turrets.
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Andy_Dandy on July 30, 2018, 09:53:23 AM
How do you enable merciless now? I refuse to play on anything less difficult.
The button's at the bottom of the storyteller select screen in the middle.
I'm curious why you refuse to ever try a lower difficulty? This is something I've observed in various forms and it's worth understanding the motivation.
Thanks, my good chap Tynan.
Played Rimworld since Alpha 8, and alot, so have some experience. But that said, I've always played on the most difficult and on Cassandra from the very start, just to get used to the niveau from the very beginning. I love to make mistakes and I'm then alot more motivated for the next game if there is alot to improve upon in my gameplay. I do this in most games, but especially in a survival game I want to feel the struggle. Not only hardest difficulty, but I also prefer to play on the ice sheet, with a modified crashlanded scenario (the same as the default, but changed to tribe so I start with less tech and more expensive tech - often I choose to start With electricity at least if it's a really cold ice sheet). That's when I have the most fun.
NB! Thanks for a wonderful game, easely my favorite game the last years.
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Andy_Dandy on July 30, 2018, 09:53:23 AM
How do you enable merciless now? I refuse to play on anything less difficult.
The button's at the bottom of the storyteller select screen in the middle.
I'm curious why you refuse to ever try a lower difficulty? This is something I've observed in various forms and it's worth understanding the motivation.
For me that's because the difficulty I am used to playing at (i.e. the difficulty last time I played) always feels like "how the game should be played".
To be honest though, once I actually started playing at a lower difficulty it was just as much fun.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Scenario:Crashlanded
Biome:Desert (bordering tundra so got cold quick)
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: 60 days
Complete mod list: None
I tend to play on randy as I like the complete randomness of the story that is created and I have found the current build as of yesterday has really hit that.
After a very slow start As I only had one trader in the first 25 days and no raids, ( I think this was a patched bug, as when the next update hit I got a few more visiting),
As it was all so quiet Research was going well and a growing space created, being curious about how threats may have changed I thought that the ancient danger might be worth a bash as it was a pretty big building. Pop the wall and out pops a syther. We make pretty quick work of it.
Six crypto sleep caskets inside but don't open those yet as still only 3 of us.
After a few visitors and traders, two man hunter packs (4 fennec foxes and 3 golden retrievers) and a herd migration of camels it was very quiet.
So next thought was lets open the crypto sleep caskets. 6 people inside none hostile, three are downed, two others head straight out and a final one starts tending one of the downed three.
I quickly rescue two of them and after being put in the hospital beds join just, woohoo up to 5 people. Would of been nice to have the choice if they joined but hey ho. Leaving the map on of the others collapses and I rescue them, again joins but has a go juice addiction.
After getting these people back to health I have a few days of quiet and again and some more traders and a couple of mad animals.
Then things start going a bit wrong, Mental breaks all over the place and the person with the go juice addiction goes into withdrawal, cant walk very far until she collapses and needs rescuing. After being rescued she will stay in bed for a couple of hours game time and then back up and collapses again. And so the cycle continues.
While this is happening one of the colony hides in their room and another goes on a food binge.
We only have 4 weapons at this point, the starting 3 and a machine pistol. Nobody had been around to trade or had weapons. And I didn't have the resources to make them.
This is when I had my first raid at about day 60, 6 people with a mixture of weapons the best being a machine pistol.
Now only having 3 that could fight and one of them with a peg leg and a lost kidney (had a tantrum and smashed a turret that exploded.), We were not well prepared. The outcome was pretty bleak losing two of the three in a gun fight and taking down four of theirs but only after they had set fire to a few things.
So with the people in mental breaks it was pretty much doomed at that point as the fire go out of hand and burnt them alive.
This was really good fun as it was different and made for a completely different story to a rinse repeat type game.
Things I have taken from the latest run through.
1) Love that randy was so random. Great fun.
2) Recruiting pawns without the option of telling them to go away is annoying.
3) The new sprites look good but for the life of me can't work out what the components are trying to look like.
4) The mental breaks are a good game mechanic meaning you need to put some effort in to keep people happy which is all good, the issue arises when they have a break and don't snap out of it when something happens, for example in this run through someone hiding in their room when a raid happens it makes sense for them to stay hiding in the room. Another pigging out of food isn't likely to sit eating when the building around him is catching fire. That just really doesn't make and sense.
I also had a different person pigging out on food but before they actually grabbed a meal they played horse shoe and went for a walk.
Having to arrest someone to get them out of the break seems wrong. can we not have something like "slap round face" or "snap them out of it", where you don't need a prison cell and they would return to normal maybe with the "they harmed me" mood let about the person that did it or like the arrest go berserk etc.. Never thought of arresting someone for going on a food binge.
5) The whole ate without table mood let makes little sense. You have crash landed on a planet and you are worried about eating at a table ? or you are from a tribe, not really known for fine dining. And the -3 for 24 hours is a bit much. Would someone be that bothered about not using a table they would still be thinking about it the next day.
One possible solution would be to give a positive when someone uses a table. Remove the negative as you would expect to have no table but when you use one it is +3 "Ate at a table" would make having tables a bonus rather than a frustration or them eating whilst hunting etc.
Keep up the awesome work. Game is going from strength to strength.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Forest/ great hills -15°C -> 15°C
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 32 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8
Complete mod list: None
I just started with a new game and have been away for a while, so this time i didn't Rough not merciless. Normally i enjoy merciless, because it's hard enough. But, for testing of this version rough will be enough.
-World Generation: There is a desert called "Sweaty reddish partridges"(i play with German language, hope I translate it well) which is quite hilarious 😊
-Also I forgotten to change the normal map size.
-There are giant sloths on the map, didn't thing I see them before at the start. I hunt them, and the drop heavy leather. I like this reduction of leather types.
-The change of the research tree is nice. Good, like no sterile tiles from the beginning.
-Got a revolver for the start. Didn't use it in other games, so it could be new. But I like the sound of it very much!
-Had some food poisoning, because of unclean kitchen. This works in my opinion, after cleaning and changing the tiles, food poisoning is going away/less common.
-Had 3 raids, all very easy (2 times one melee raider, 1 time one melee and 1 ranger raider). Pretty basic stuff. Had a caravan quest which asks for a "TechProf Persona [German]", it could be a techprof subpersona core. Didn't have one, would be hard to get one in a month.
-Have a refugee quest and see, that I could do it. Caravans move faster, I think. In B18 every quest was like "Can you please walk around this mountain. Now! Please.".
And now I have a cold snap, and I really love it. The first time, that the small animals all come into my base and I must hunt the rats, which eat my freshly harvested food. I am a rat hunter! 😊 (after hundreds of hours Rimworld). And after this the pigs came, to eat the corpses of the rats. I don't know why this happened, but some mechanic seems to have changed. Perhaps the rats could eat cold grass.
Did have one short circuit, but it was 2 tiles away from my powerline. Didn't expect it there and don't know what to think about it.
I noticed the log of people, which was interesting. Don't remember it that well.
That's it for the moment.
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Andy_Dandy on July 30, 2018, 09:53:23 AM
How do you enable merciless now? I refuse to play on anything less difficult.
The button's at the bottom of the storyteller select screen in the middle.
I'm curious why you refuse to ever try a lower difficulty? This is something I've observed in various forms and it's worth understanding the motivation.
Well, for one it's "the way the game is meant to be played" and some of us just like a challenge! Once you get over a big hump, you really feel like you accomplished something, especially when you're under the impression that it was supposed to be REALLY tough. I've been playing on rough and tried the higher difficulties before, but now I feel like I should bump it back up again since I'm doing "too good" for my tastes, especially since the prisoner rework. It's a lot easier to recruit guys now, it just has a guaranteed time sink that you need to wait out, and if that means I have an extra hauler and stone cutter I'll happily take it, especially since the guys I tend to capture are really good fighters too. Just means I have a bigger food resource drain, and for that I have the paste dispenser until I find a dedicated cook.
Highest difficulty only for me is the hallmark of being a Dwarf Fortress vet and a roguelike player. It's what I'm used to playing in games like these, and making it to extreme end game is pretty boring for me. I'm not sure why, but I don't like playing huge colonies. And it's worth noting I'm not amazing at micromanaging this game, so I'm definitely not someone winning those game conditions.
Glorious desperate deaths make for good stories.
Obligatory commentary on the new art:
I for the most part either like it or don't mind it. The meat's a little odd but I'm getting used to it. Biggest complaint though is some meats (I noticed it with tortoise meat) looks way too much like pemmican, hard to tell them apart side by side. Similarly, the incendairy shells look a little too much like logs to me, but I'm colorblind so that doesn't help.
I actually like most the new silver, looks like crude coins, which is what I would expect from such a currency on a such a world.
I am so bloody glad that the heavy smg actually LOOKS like a heavy smg now, but I have no clue what it is; is it based off any real gun? I get sort of a Thompson + UMP vibe from it (I would actually think it would be really cool if all the guns were made more original as such). Ditto on the "chain shotgun" (that name is still problematic as it's clearly stated to be gas-op, but I'm probably being overly pedantic there): I like the look, but is it based off anything real? just out of curiosity.
Also the minor nitpick I'm surprised is till here: reusing the pump-shotgun's sound for the chainshotgun means you still hear rapid pumping, which is hilarious but not very sensible.
Question: Is there any way to find out ingame if the deterioration % on weapons affects either aim or damage. Afaik it has no effect on either but I'd like to know for sure.
Cheers :)
Re: difficulty question
I would like to be able to discuss the games strategies without having to qualify them for difficulty. And I feel its very sketchy to make comments about game balance if one doesn't consistently play the hardest mode.
If some tactic consistently fails the extreme test, then teaching it is actually going to harm someone's learning. Its very easy to pick up sloppy habits that must be unlearned when you're playing with a free optimist on all your colonists.
While we're on to feedback:
Merciless
Cassandra
Temperate Forest
Mountains + Coast
Every game lasts at least 3 hours, played a 10 hours stretch recently. Usually survive the first winter or two, so mostly early game.
Food poisoning based on filth chance right now causes a weird kind of immersion breaking (well for me at least) solution. Because cooks won't clean up filth, you *have* to have a huge kitchen to offset the dirty tiles. But because meals are made 1 by 1, walking time is a massive factor, so you shove the stove beside doors to ingredient storages. This is less of an issue at lower difficulties, but at extreme I basically have to micro manage my cook to clean or everyone gets food poisoning (at least this doesn't wipe my colony).
It looks really dumb with a kitchen stuck in the corner of a big room you try to prevent people/animals walking in. And the micromanagement to make a pawn do their job right feels wrong.
I feel like cleaning filth in the kitchen, if we keep this mechanic, should be mandatory as part of the cooking task. Cooking in unfloored rooms or at the campfire keeps the food poisoning from dirt issue, but once you've got a proper kitchen it shouldn't be an issue you have to keep microing.
Hi this is my first time writing something in the forum.
Difficulty> Cassandra rougth
biome> arid shrubland
time> 75 days
mods> none
time last 2 days> 8 h
For now I love 1.0, so many new things and so many improvements. There are 2 things that I think don't work properly>
1/ Cloths> In theory pawns should choose best clothes, and use those without player intervention. They don't, at least in my game. Its 35/40 degrees Celsius outside and some of my pawns keep using their parkas, when there are some fine dusters in the storage area. Then a cold snap arrives. Those who have dusters refuse to use some nice parkas that I have in storage, and develop hypothermia. So there is something wrong in how the pawns react to the weather conditions, because they don't seem to consider this when they choose their clothes, just quality and HP, but not environment.
2> Food policies> Pawns keep using different foods to train and feed animals in a random way. Sometimes they use hay or raw food, but other times they use simple meals, or pemmican, or even chocolate, even when there are plenty of raw food they could use instead, like corn or potatoes. So they seem to choose the food totally random, or I cant see any kind of logic in it.
I hope this can be improved somehow. I love the new 1.0, keep up the good work!
Quote from: ZaPhobos on July 30, 2018, 10:53:18 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Andy_Dandy on July 30, 2018, 09:53:23 AM
How do you enable merciless now? I refuse to play on anything less difficult.
The button's at the bottom of the storyteller select screen in the middle.
I'm curious why you refuse to ever try a lower difficulty? This is something I've observed in various forms and it's worth understanding the motivation.
Well, for one it's "the way the game is meant to be played" and some of us just like a challenge! ...
Wait, what?
Ive not heard Tynan mention highest difficulty was the intended default...
Or is that just a quote of how you perceive the game should be played?
Also wanted to mention after my suggestion of story be changed to bio it was changed. That is so much better. Thanks Tynan
I see that you've returned to the original component / advanced component models! Personally I'm really happy about that. Speaking of, after playing the game a bit with the new meat models, something just feels off about them still. I honestly think they should return to their original design and colors.. Don't fix what isn't broken right? I guess it just comes down to personal opinion. A lot of us fell in love with the original art style of the game so changing everything drastically might be off-putting to some. I think the leathers and cloths, medicines, armor & weapon visual changes are all great however. Keep up the great work! Love this game :)
Something to add:
On my recent play through I have just about everything researched. Jungle biome, 13+ colonists. I have about 40+ elephant tusks 10+ thumbro horns sitting in storage and I haven't encountered a single exotic trader this entire play through. Bulk goods and weapon dealers only so far, with the occasional visitor with little to buy from. Not sure if this is intended, a bug, or just a bad roll of the dice.
I noticed that it's a bit hard to tell you've selected 'Merciless mode' as the colour of the inner selection circle is quite a dark brown. Maybe it should be made red to match the text colour and outer selection circle.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on July 30, 2018, 09:10:55 AM
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 07:43:10 AM
FYI main design purpose of flagstone is for pre-generated roads.
I personally use them everywhere anybody walks outside. Never really thought they were way too expensive though it does seem odd that they cost what tiles cost yet are uglier. I guess they lay faster which is the benefit.
So if not flagstone, what is the intended outside flooring solution? And what is the intended method for preventing trees from growing under wind farms? I always use flagstone for that because solar panels don't fit perfectly nor do you really need that many solar panels per turbine. I know I could just throw wood flooring everywhere (assuming I'm not in a desert or ice sheet) but let's assume I don't want to.
I'd assume concrete/paved tile would be intended for paths outside. Like you, I don't want to lay down wood for paths cause it's weird in most bases. I've noticed the stats long ago but figured it was oversight or busy on other things. It makes sense now why they yield no resources (I rebuild a lot). But concrete is another source for draining steel so I'm hesitant with it now in 1.0. You know, that concrete texture looks noice in stony colors 🤞
Quote from: Orionreach on July 30, 2018, 12:55:59 PM
... Speaking of, after playing the game a bit with the new meat models, something just feels off about them still. I honestly think they should return to their original design and colors.. Don't fix what isn't broken right? ...
It was broken. I did not like the old meat textures. They looked like non descript chunks of ... blob.
The old meat textures were apart of a number of textures that were noticeably off from from everything else. Especially with the new improved textures that are getting added. I like the new meat textures, please don't revert them.
I hope the rock chunks, and most trees also get changed in the future.
(Specifically for trees, I think they need to be dual texture entities. One texture for the trunk on ground layer, and one texture for the leaves one layer up. I don't like how a rock chunk placed directly north of a tree is drawn on top of the tree's leaves. It looks weird.)
Quote from: Orionreach on July 30, 2018, 12:55:59 PM
I see that you've returned to the original component / advanced component models! Personally I'm really happy about that. Speaking of, after playing the game a bit with the new meat models, something just feels off about them still. I honestly think they should return to their original design and colors.. Don't fix what isn't broken right? I guess it just comes down to personal opinion. A lot of us fell in love with the original art style of the game so changing everything drastically might be off-putting to some. I think the leathers and cloths, medicines, armor & weapon visual changes are all great however. Keep up the great work! Love this game :)
Something to add:
On my recent play through I have just about everything researched. Jungle biome, 13+ colonists. I have about 40+ elephant tusks 10+ thumbro horns sitting in storage and I haven't encountered a single exotic trader this entire play through. Bulk goods and weapon dealers only so far, with the occasional visitor with little to buy from. Not sure if this is intended, a bug, or just a bad roll of the dice.
Regarding the lack of exotic traders: I'm personally OK with this level of randomness because it kind of forces you to caravan out in order to dump some inventory for useful items (since friendly bases will trade for exotics).
Storyteller: Randy.
Difficulty: Survival Struggle.
Biome/hilliness: Tropical Rainforest with Large Hills.
Commitment mode: Nope.
Current colony age: 209
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10, maybe? I don't keep track of time.
Complete mod list: None.
Okay. Uranium slug cannons are terrifying. (https://i.imgur.com/AJd2v1r.jpg) I found a deep deposit and several veins of uranium throughout the map, so I could actually maintain a couple of them. And... yeah, they go BOOM real nice. The rate of fire is slower than I expected when I saw that the barrel must be changed every 40 shots, so it's fairly expensive but also fairly efficient. There only have been a couple of raids since I have them and so far they seem like a worthy investment, though it's definitely not a turret I would spam.
One of the raids I had was really a poison ship. It was my first encounter with a big group of mechanoids. Lancers are certainly okay if they have support from centipedes and scythers, it's just by themselves that they feel underwhelming, but it seems like a good compromise to me.
- Still annoyed at the amount of overhead mountain needed to trigger infestations. I expanded a little bit to have a second freezer and I accidentally left two tiles with an overhead mountain. It took less than a week to spawn one. It feels like I'm being punished for a really minor thing.
- I'm noticing that colonists do not rearm the full durability of the barrel of turrets, they just put whichever amount of stuff they carry. I'm not a fan of that. I do wish they would fill them up completely, even if it takes them several trips.
- The long-range mineral scanner has been a complete waste of time so far. It hasn't done anything since I build it (three quadrums more or less, It's hard to keep track of time when it's permanent summer and I don't get notices for changing seasons). I think it wasn't being used too much due to research being prioritized. Now that I don't need any more research it should be used more, but half a quadrum has passed and still nothing. I really wish the scanner would give me some feedback, like a percentage of completion until it finds something, or an estimated time remaining. Something.
- Since you're talking about flagstone. There's literally no reason to use it over stone tiles, like... ever. It cost the same, it doesn't yield when deconstructing and it doesn't provide beauty. It's just slightly faster to build. So by building them 1) I'm not saving any resources. 2) I'm wasting the resources if I decide to expand in that direction. 3) I don't get the beauty in areas that colonists will probably frequent. If it can slow or avoid a mood debuff for the unsightly environment then it is useful. 4) The extra time needed to build stone tiles also trains construction skill, so the waiting is actually better long-term.
If I get into a situation where I need to build floor fast regardless of its beauty, then I'm going to use wood. If I don't have wood or flammability is a problem, then it's concrete. If I don't have steel, then I rather build half of the place out of stone tiles, or directly save the blocks for other stuff.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Flat w/River
Commitment mode: (yes/no) No
Current colony age (days): 440
Hours played in the last 2 days: 7
Complete mod list: N/A
In the latest couple five or ten (?) patches I have had more food poisonings than I have had all early game, It's weird. I can understand the Insect Jelly being dubious, and berries, but I don't understand how my level 15 cooks made multiple poisoned lavish meals. Is it cleanliness? The poisoning said something about the cook having an insufficiently high level. I think i'm going to zone one of my cleaners to only ever be in the rec room, dining/kitchen, freezer, and his bedroom area and see how that goes. (the cooks can't get higher than level 15, but they also don't have a burning passion for it, so seems fair.)
At this point I'm late enough in the game I'm just chilling waiting for more plasteel and advanced components. Plasteel feels very scarce now. The mechs that attack never give me enough plasteel, and buying out plasteel from traders leaves enough for only one or two plasteel using things. The ship parts are tough. (I see caskets don't require plasteel, hurrah!) Definitely not enough for power armor Marine Armor. I like the increased need for uranium! (and gold)
I love the new item stacks! I love the new Healroot! The meat is great! The components are Weird, but I will accept! Did the leather change...? The ends look bare. I also thought the plate steel was okay before, but you reverted that.
Incendiary Shells look too much like wood. Rotate 90 degrees to be upright?
I hate the silver. The silver is bad. Could you make them into straight stacks of coins maybe? Tall stacks in piles like skyscapers are visually pleasing. Maybe make it into bars for full stack of 500? heck, could we smelt the silver into bars to make it fit into larger stacks? (...mod idea i guess, not really gameplay useful.)
The "Doctor Care/ No Medicine" icon is now undersized compared to the other Medical Icons, and still uses the previous Herbal look.
I send my people on caravans a lot now, to sell things (because there are never enough traders to take my dusters) to fulfill trade requests ( like, three times. Everyone wants such weird things. the component/steel/plasteel necessary to make some gun requests make them non-viable occasionally.
Best one was the 27 something bowler hats.) and to go kill raiders for awesome loots. The worst thing about it now is that I have to re-designate bedrooms and lovers into double beds when my people get back. Is there a way people could keep their bedrooms until they do a permanent settlement, instead of losing them when leaving or using their bedrolls?
The infestations... I hate. I'm in a completely flat area, aside for one place I spider mined to look for more minerals, and it spawns like 90 bugs. Twice. I'm trying to fill it in with walls now, its horrible. The deep drill infestations are fine but the, like, 30 hives are way too much.
Can flagstone cost slightly less? I like using it for paths, and surrounding my conduits that go to far off thermal generators, but it now costs the same as bricks. It already provides less beauty.
Are colonists moods not supposed to change when they sleep? My poor ascetic has a lovely comfortable bed, and a just dull enough bedroom, but his mood "Minor Break" warning notification stays all night even when his mood bar pointer shows that his mood should be rising to 60%+ It seems like having comfortable beds is useless if they never get use the mood buff from +10 "resting on clouds of heaven."
Speaking of beds I wish my peeps would prioritize the Legendary/Masterwork Hospital beds instead of going to the nearest Hospital bed. The good bed is within two spaces of the Legendary, but they'll go to that good bed every time. (I switched it so the better beds are closer to the door after seeing this too many times.)
Thank you for the awesome game!
Quote from: Orionreach on July 30, 2018, 12:55:59 PM
I see that you've returned to the original component / advanced component models! Personally I'm really happy about that. Speaking of, after playing the game a bit with the new meat models, something just feels off about them still. I honestly think they should return to their original design and colors.. Don't fix what isn't broken right?
I strongly disagree, the overall direction of the art changes are great: Stronger colors, much clearer what that stuff is supposed to be. The old components are not as good, the new ones were my favorite art change so far. Although the meat is not as great as the components, it goes in the same direction, only the color is not as strong.
Difficulty: Randy Survival Struggle (now classified as "Savage")
Commitment mode: Yes
Biome: Mountainous Boreal Forest
Time: 3,5 years
Mods: custom hair styles collection
time last days: 17h
Even in naked brutality, I managed to aquire colonists and stuff relativly fast for my usual games, probably because it is not the highest difficulty.
Only one colonist died so far: he got the plague on an item stash quest reltively early in the game. This was kinda frustrating because I had no way of saving that one - no bedrolls and no medicine.
When it comes to armor, I usually skip the research for flak armor to get faster to the more important stuff like turrets, because in the cold biomes a flak jacket with 15°C cold isolation prevents the colonists from going outside for a longer time. The option to choose the material makes them not a good option - the insulation does not have to be as good, just better than that according to material. Also, why is the vest armor 115% against sharp, jacket only 46% on the same quality level in addition to the fact that the jackets extended cover are only the arms.
So far all the Prisoners were easy to recruit, breaking resistance did not take long and after that a piece of cake.
Also, I noticed that a pawn with the kind trait went on an insulting spree.
When I tried to install a bionic leg on a pawn, the pawn chose the worst medical bed, although an excellent hospital bed was available. I didnt notice and obviously the surgery failed and the leg was wasted. Frustrating that such a hightech piece is gone.
Raid sizes with that many colonists were suprisingly small - my colony was never in real danger.
The latest ship part spawned one centipede, one scyther, 3 lancers - good cover and assault rifles were enough to take them down without a downed pawn. Maybe thats good for this difficulty level.
Infestations bring more trouble, but I think I am prepared with a melee frontline and 3 tiles wide hallways to give enough room to shoot. No need for animals or turrets under the mountain.
All in all this run feels like I wanted: some threats that require good planning and execution but not as unforgiving that I cant enjoy building a base and creating a new glitterworld - who needs to escape if the place is already good?
Just a quick question at the end: what is the milestone to unlock "merciless" now that I clicked on the button to unlock it? ^^
[attachment deleted due to age]
Difficulty: Phoebe Medium
Commitment mode: No
Biome: Temperate Forest Large Hills
(Continuation of last colony)
I had a bit of a fubar. I was reworking the greenhouse/freezer layout and got a cold snap just before winter. I didn't notice that I'd left a wall open and so lost a bunch of corn and devilstrand. This put my food really low. I could hunt meat for the colonists but my animals were getting severely malnourished without vegetables.
I had a bunch of silver and other things to trade so I called in a bulk goods trader, but they didn't have any food. I got an orbital bulk goods trader but they only had a bit of rice. Just wondering what the situation is supposed to be with food being available to buy from traders if you end up running short?
Also, on the textures, I think the new meat model is good, and the old component model is more visually distinctive, so what you've ended up with in the current build is a good thing, IMO.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, Large Hills
Commitment mode: No -- I play in the style of commitment mode, but do not turn it on in.
Current colony age (days): 229
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~ 8
Complete mod list: No mods
Version: 1.0.1970 - 1.0.1980
Scenario: Tribal
Since this is a long running colony I'm just going to highlight a couple stories as well as some things I noticed throughout that might be worth thinking about.
I tried Rough difficulty instead of Extreme this time around because I wanted to try out drop pods (I almost never caravan in any form when playing on extreme). Generally raid strength seemed fine for Rough difficulty (much easier than extreme, but still some hairy moments). I lost one colonist during my play, but thankfully had a resurrection serum for him. I was able to defend my base pretty much exclusively with walls/doors/sandbags. I built a couple of the new turrets around day 200 but have not yet seen them fire. I have not yet found any uranium, so haven't built a sniper turret.
Since this is a fairly old colony, I should mention that I normally play on speed 3, and haven't seen any lag to speak of so far, with ~15 colonists and ~20 animals. In B18 I tended not to play colonies much past the 150 day mark due to lag. So I'm definitely seeing improved performance in 1.0.
Drop PoddingNot as painful as caravaning, but still painful. This was my first ever colony trying out drop pods, and I feel like I missed something obvious about them. I'll give one experience (my first) to illustrate, but my subsequent attempts went pretty much the same way:
- 3 people caravan to fill a trade request
- All three went to extreme break risk loading things up
- One went into a daze, other two just got into the pods. After coming out of daze, the third got into the pods, before they were full. So all three colonists loading the pods stopped about halfway through the process. Not clear how to prevent this.
- With everyone in my colony set to haul, only one person at a time would keep filling the pods after the initial 3 people got inside.
- Guys inside near starved to death, one went to 76% malnutrition before the pods got loaded
- Launch!
- Turn in quest!
- Trade! Oh wait, I get a 14% price penalty because my negotiator is starving...
- Oh wait, caravan can't move...be great if there was a warning for this before I launched the pods and created a non-functional caravan...
- Drop pod a muffalo onto them - now the caravan can move, but I don't have enough food to get home
- Send the caravan towards home, drop pod them some food when they get about halfway back
I'm not sure if I'm just not seeing these things in the UI, or missing something fundemental about drop podding, but it would be great if:
- You could see the carrying capacity of the caravan that will be created from a drop pod along with the drop pod load capacity (or the capacity these pods would add to an existing caravan).
- There was a warning that you are going to create an immobile caravan.
- There was some way to edit the contents of a pod without everything in the entire pod barfing onto the ground around it. So, for example, I could swap out jade for food when I realize my caravan wont be able to move if I launch. I reloaded my save after canceling my pod loading the first time and getting a giant item barf explosion.
- Pawns set to get in drop pods got in last -- *after* loading everything.
- Pawns did not starve themselves/go into exhaustion while loading the pods
- There was a way to add a pod to a launch group after the fact.
- There was a way to remove a pod from a launch group after the fact.
Basically, it would be great if the experience was a little more forgiving and polished. I'll probably drop pod again as long as I'm playing on the lower difficulties, but as cool as it is in theory, it's a bit painful in practice.
The Escape Addict
- I gave a pawn some yayo to help his mood, and he got addicted immediately. Don't do drugs kids.
- A short time later he went on a wake up binge -- he walked directly past the 20 wake up in a shelf in my dinning room to go halfway across the map to pick up some forbidden flake. Seems like it should be a psychite binge/flake binge?
- Once he ran out of flake, he came back to the wake up. And got addicted, of course.
- I arrested him, because I'm not dealing with a double addicted pawn who is currently ODing on wake up
- I set him to reduce resistance, but *not* to recruit. The idea being I would keep him in jail throughout his recovery from addiction.
- My warden, with an inspiration, goes and talks to him - and recruits him. Seems like a bug.
- So I have to arrest him again, and this time during the arrest he resists, so I have to beat him up
- I can then capture him, but see the warning about angering his faction -- which is my faction. Seems like another bug.
Possible Bugs/Things to Look At
- Traps: I don't generally use them a lot, but with the change to make them disposable I built a few to try it out. They triggered, and I pretty much forgot to replace them. I didn't make a trap corridor or anything, so it was easy to forget where I put them. I'd prefer if traps were "refillable" like campfires/turrets and could toggle whether to fill them or not.
- The /10 in bills is slightly misaligned in bills, causing text to overlap. Honestly, this just looks like a programming error where the "/10" text is drawn before the quantity of an item is known, so overlap occurs with enough items.
- "Finished" messages (such as toxic fallout finishing) aren't stored in the messages tab
- Caravan arrived/returned messages aren't in the messages tab
- Warg has min animal skill of 1, wild boar is 3 -- seems backwards.
- Space traders droped their cargo pods into my chimney, a 4 square unroofed hole in my freezer. Not really a big deal, but a weird place for them to pick to deliver items.
- I kept a 100% difficulty prisoner with 50 resistance just to see what would happen. After spending months lowering his resistance, he joined on the first recruitment attempt with a 6.3% chance. Seems like either a bug, or I don't know what prisoner recruit difficulty acctually means. I assumed a 100% prisoner would never be recruitied.
- I equiped a pyro with a incendiary laucher -- got message "hunter lacks ranged weapon". Very glad he wont hunt, but the message could be clearer (it's good enough, but could be better)
- I have a lvl 19 crafter -- even when crafting 100% of the time, it seems like he loses more skill than he gains while hauling materials to the bench from close by (< 20 cells). I don't think this is *actually* true, but it feels bad when I can literally watch his skill decay so quickly.
- Manhunting packs still 100% attack doors. I'm not sure why the tooltip says they dont -- that has never been true since I started in A16. 21 manhunting polar bears eat through a door very quickly when they all attack it at once. I honestly am not sure whether the attacking doors should be fixed or not, but it seems like at the very least the in game help shouldn't give false information to new players.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: The second to the last (Sorry but its name changes all the time, cant tell which one is anymore)
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest / Mountanious
Commitment mode: yes, alt+f4-ing like a pussy but with an autosave of 0,5 days to not ruin entirely the purpose of permadeath
Current colony age (days): Almost 300
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8 aprox
Complete mod list: None
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to let you know that wild men have an extremely high chance of dying on downed. I beat one using just fists and he died in 3 consecutive attemps. He even got his arm destroyed and removed! I was not even shooting or using sharp weapons, only attacking with fists and meleeing with a gun...
Quote from: Nynzal on July 30, 2018, 01:50:05 PM
Quote from: Orionreach on July 30, 2018, 12:55:59 PM
I see that you've returned to the original component / advanced component models! Personally I'm really happy about that. Speaking of, after playing the game a bit with the new meat models, something just feels off about them still. I honestly think they should return to their original design and colors.. Don't fix what isn't broken right?
I strongly disagree, the overall direction of the art changes are great: Stronger colors, much clearer what that stuff is supposed to be. The old components are not as good, the new ones were my favorite art change so far. Although the meat is not as great as the components, it goes in the same direction, only the color is not as strong.
I also preferred the new components. They had a more unique look and stood out a bit more.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest/Flat
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): ~270
Hours played in the last 2 days: >12. I was crashing hard this weekend, okay?
Complete mod list: None
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Been experiencing what seems like a really large number of "zzzt" events. Hasn't been so bad because I'm largely relying on geothermal power this time around and only have two batteries, but it's still been happening once every quadrum or two. My feelings about the event (and the lack of circuit breakers) notwithstanding, the disincentive to use renewables seems pretty harsh.
I've also been having a bit of an interface issue: Selecting growing zones full of mature plants is nearly impossible. The first click selects the individual plant, the second selects all growing zones on the screen. It makes turning off sowing in your healroot patch because winter is coming kind of a chore.
Other than that, the playthrough has been going okay. Been experimenting with an almost turretless defense strategy because the map is metal-poor and I can only import so much. My current setup is a perimeter wall with numerous sally ports and fortifications so that I can hit the enemy from range then fall back. The effectiveness of this strat has been getting worse as the enemy attacks get larger and my perimeter wall size grows. I probably need to thicken the perimeter wall and make more internal defensive zones, but I'm running out of stone. The main benefit of doing it this way is that you kill enemies before they hit your traps so that you keep your material cost low. In theory it would also allow your to break up their siege attacks and make them rush you before they get through the wall, but I haven't been able to make this work well yet.
One thing I've noticed with the changes to spike traps is that there is a strong incentive to "shuffle" the traps after an attack. I know that enemies remember the locations of traps, but I'm not sure what exactly that means under the hood: Whether they remember a specific location as containing a trap or the trap object specifically. Either way, though, now that you have to rebuild traps every time, it is definitely to your advantage to move them around if a raid triggers a large number of them.
Quote from: topace3000 on July 30, 2018, 03:53:22 PM
...
I also preferred the new components. They had a more unique look and stood out a bit more.
^ Same.
I liked the new component textures
Quote from: Awe on July 30, 2018, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: Greep on July 30, 2018, 06:34:18 AM
4 years in: unstoppable swarms of 18+ centipedes over and over, to the point where I just got bored and essentially gave up.
Sniper turrets + killbox = easy solution to centipedes. I launched ship under pressure of 15-20 centipedes almost every day. 1 deep uranium deposit provide more than enough mats to rearm turrets.
Yeah I was mostly just seeing how much ignoring metagaming affected the game: turns out it's the majority of the game's skill atm lol. That's disappointing. It was a little shocking seeing the game go from basically no raid size at all to literally 10 times that in the same time span.
As for sniper turrets, I actually am kind of interested to see how an extreme sniper turret strategy would work out. Not just deep drilling but, considering how much steel I got from LRMS sites if I targetted uranium instead I could have made a ridiculous amount of them.
At least as of build 1978, this is a minor issue.
Because rescued friendly pawns wait until they are fully healed, it would be nice if we could have a few "operation" options for them. I'm not interested in removing any limbs or organs, (maybe give them a peg-leg? I don't know if it allows that or not currently) mostly I would like to be able to administer drugs to them. I had some traders get into a social fight, to the point that one got downed. I rescued him, and realized that he has an addiction to smokeleaf. He dropped a few joints when he went down, so I hoped I could administer those to keep him happy until he healed up and left, but I couldn't order that. I foresee this being a lot more dangerous if he was addicted to Luciferium, instead, and I couldn't treat his addiction. Mostly, I would like to be able to administer drugs to the addicted pawns that I rescue, to keep them from going into withdrawal while healing up.
Something that bothered me in vanilla a lot (and one of the first things I modded myself) are plant textures. They aren't bad at all, I just really want to have an immature variant for every type of plant. It's important for me to see at a glance if they are ready to be harvested or not.
The same is true for trees, but there I haven't found the time to make textures for.
Here is an example with the new healroot:
(https://i.imgur.com/FnUNEkv.png) (https://i.imgur.com/DNkGwaH.png)
I also modded it to be a tiny glower... because let's be real, the artist clearly used some glow at those fruits =p
(http://puu.sh/B5Rl6/76a070e236.jpg)
Quote from: Greep on July 30, 2018, 04:35:52 PM
Quote from: Awe on July 30, 2018, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: Greep on July 30, 2018, 06:34:18 AM
4 years in: unstoppable swarms of 18+ centipedes over and over, to the point where I just got bored and essentially gave up.
Sniper turrets + killbox = easy solution to centipedes. I launched ship under pressure of 15-20 centipedes almost every day. 1 deep uranium deposit provide more than enough mats to rearm turrets.
Yeah I was mostly just seeing how much ignoring metagaming affected the game: turns out it's the majority of the game's skill atm lol. That's disappointing. It was a little shocking seeing the game go from basically no raid size at all to literally 10 times that in the same time span.
As for sniper turrets, I actually am kind of interested to see how an extreme sniper turret strategy would work out. Not just deep drilling but, considering how much steel I got from LRMS sites if I targetted uranium instead I could have made a ridiculous amount of them.
true skill right now is burning/melting down the 35k wealth of weapons the 75 man raid in year 2 just dropped before the next big threat comes
I failed at this and was rewarded by a psychic ship containing 9x timewasters, 4x storyteller. On the bright side mechs yield so little from deconstruction now so your wealth is controlled!!! I'm the real winner here.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Medium Standard crash-landed start
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, Mountain, Large river and Southern Coast
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 369 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 26ish
No mods
Its my first successful run on permadeath just taking what I am dealt colonist wise. I picked the ideal biomes though.
Gather friends and listen to the tale of the Waslior Dominion and its ascension to the stars.
Our story begins with 3 poor bastards falling from orbit, We have;
Skye a teetotaller neurotic with solid passions she is 62 years old but has no injuries \o/
Sakii a staggeringly ugly gourmand hard worker, she is 25 and has scars across her right arm. doesn't do violence.
Haugen a Steadfast quick sleeping pyromaniac, he is 33 and has a bad leg.
Skill wise the spread wasn't to bad I have most bases covered with the glaring exceptions of Medicine and Intellectual pursuits still can't complain too much and maybe one of the locals will like books or something.
Our landing site is friendly with a 50 day growing season and we set up in the corner between coast and mountains building a simple shelter from wood till we can tunnel into the rock and establish something less flammable. The first weeks pass with the usual incidents and only a couple of fires! We manage to capture one of our assailants and turn them to our cause. They are called Ayala and are a 67 year old Teetotaller Jogger with a bad back but her they can read!. Just as Ayala succumbs to our charms a wanderer turns up they are called Weiss and are a trigger-happy 18 year old with a Chemical fascination and a Good memory. Raids are still relatively tame our inviting trapped bridge and concrete path are racking up kills.
Half a year in we have a made considerable inroads into the construction of our mountain base, we have dug a tunnel deep into the mountain and a barracks. Though we are still currently living outside until the smoothing process gets finished. A local outlander caravan arrives and they have 2 cows and a bull for sale, we throw most of our wealth into acquiring these so we can start ranching and getting that sweet sweet milk. Our new recruits are making good progress on the research front we have unlocked hydroponics and chem-fuel refining. We saved a refugee being chased by pirates and even recruited one of his pursuers which would later go on to become their wife (come to think of it they never did say why the pirate were pursuing them). The couple, Luke and Berg are a Beautiful too-smart with a chemical interest and a Pretty jealous undergrounded with a chemical fascination. It was at this point that I gave up on the idea of flake for money.
1 year in the basics of our new under mountain life are complete we now have a impressive barracks, large freezer, a storehouse and 2 hydroponics rooms set up. We are using chemfuel from the rice for power and have located a thin ceiling to pump out our heat, now we are living primarily in the mountain we have allowed our expanding herd of cows and some huskies that joined to have the run of our old shelter as a barn. This arrangement lasted all of two weeks before Haugen decided that roast beef sounded like a good idea and set fire to the only door, by the time the rest of my colonists could get there we had to priorities saving burning cows over the building, a new barn will have to be raised from sandstone Haugen can do it and live in there with them. Hawk the wandering misogynist pyromaniac joins to much disappointment and the expansion of the barns living quarters
In the Second year we were joined by Kimmy and Mole a kind fast learner and Gay careful shooter respectively both from crashed pods. Skye was joined by a bad back which wasn't too great as she is my best shooter. We equipped our colonists with chain shotguns and bought a few flak vests as raids are beginning to toughen up and we want to be ready for the ever present risk of infestation. A large tribal raid is thwarted with the sacrifice of a husky to hold the choke of my mountain base as a torrent of chain shotguns unleash fury over its head. Rainbow you will be remembered. Peace talks go very well and we are now at peace with all our fellow outlanders. Our herd has grown to 16 cows and 2 bulls by year end through breeding and a second round of purchases while we are up to 6 hauling huskies. We also did some trade mission for 2 healer serums and destroyed and outpost with our huskies for a res serum.
Year 3 begins with a base expansion digging bedrooms, a hospital/reseachlab and setting up a solar farm in a open pocket we found within the mountain. We are also starting to think about build a outer wall to control our raid approaches a bit better but that will have to wait for later in the year. Our first casualty come from a friendly fire incident during a raider attack Hawk is caught in the back by a shotgun blast while attempting to rescue a bonded husky they are cremated together in a short ceremony by the sea. The year sees Theo,Landale and Roo join us. They are mostly recruited for their ability to shoot/brawl well Roo is a greedy gourmand careful shooter while Theo and Landale are a pair bloodthirsty Brawlers. While moving the pyros to the stone barn has been helpful we are building them a new home after one of them set alight my haygrass crop as everyone was sleeping and a long walk away. We are starting to see mechanoid ships landing more often and could do with some extra fire power. While our technique of baiting centipedes to a corner throwing a EMP in their path and having my base step round the corner to unload with chain shotguns is working well I suspect that if it goes wrong my cloth wearing colonists with a few flak vests are not going to fare well so far the most we have had to handle is 3 centipedes as our traps are still effective and sycthers tend to get stopped in their tracks by chain shotties. So begins the construction of a four tile thick sandstone wall to channel my foes into a planned turret fire zone. Our deep drilling research helps find us the minerals we need, it also finds bugs but our chain shotguns and ablative huskies continue to shine.
Year 4 our base reaches the final state you see in the pictures bellow we recruit Kane a optimistic mob boss that doesn't do much other than fight and walker a Jealous psychopath with passions for nearly everything. The defences are complete we have a narrowed main approach covered by 6 autocannons, 2 uranium slug throwers lots of wooden deadfalls and 4 supplementary improvised turrets. I have left a area on our north wall exposed to lure sappers to target it. Originally I was planning to have a small storage with some improvised turrets in storage nearby and lay them as they raiders tunneled through but so far huskies hand chain shotguns firing down the one tile thick corridor the sapper opens in my wall have proved more than sufficient, even if the huskies do suffer a little for it (guys I'd give you power armour if I could but we are testing vanilla). A long Toxic fallout proves very dangerous as our herd (now 25 cows and 4 bulls) eat through their supplies and proves too much for our two rice hydroponics to sustain, cutbacks are made to 15 cows and 2 bulls we were selling allot of the milk anyways and now have a large supply of beef to help feed us and the huskies through the fallout. I make one suit of power armour then decide our policy of not getting shot/letting other stuff get shot for us is the way to go the melee guys can have some marine armour everyone else is sticking with flack vests. Added a tile of chem-fuel storage in the middle of the week spot in our wall planning to Molotov the corridor they cut through next time the sappers come. We begin thinking about the ship word.....
Year 5 We fended off several large raids that charged into our turret zone those uranium slugs do work!!! Unfortunately I forget to turn off the turrets after a attack and a stray shot aimed at a mad boomrat costs Ayala an arm. Research progresses and we are offer a Ai core for destroying a nearby bandit settlement. Mole landale and Skye head out to win us the core. In our arrogance we forgot that penoxyclyine does not stop flu (or they where infected before I gave it them a few days prior) The party has nearly made it to the bandits when the disease strikes along with food poisoning from the supplementary berries. Landale is fine but skye is laid out and Mole is struggling to stand. The caravan is too far out to get food to with a rescue caravan before they starve so a desperate plan is hatched and my 4 researchers take wake up and get to work. Meanwhile back with the convoy Mole uses her sniper to pull the bandits just before she collapses from her food poisoning and flu Landale is a god damn hero cutting down 3 raiders with his plassteel long sword and causing them to break. Unfortunately one got a lucky shot in and hes bleeding from the neck he has five hours before he drops and 0 med skill. Suddenly drop pods arrive dumping a dishevelled Ayala onto the deck with a pile of steel and components Ayala tends the wounded but it looks too late for Skye, thinking quickly we send more steel and components so the caravan can make a pod launcher and send the dying Skye back to home base. The rest of the caravan manages to camp out in the bandit shelter till they recover enough to return on foot hunting some animals to supplement their food. Skye arrives home just as she slips into the void but the mech resurrection injector is waiting and by the time the caravan gets back she is recovered. There isn't a party so I give everyone a day on compulsory recreation to force the issue. The rest of the year is comparatively uneventful I am mainly amassing resources and building components for the ship to come.
Year 6 Ship building begins in earnest we have chosen a design based on a game one of my colonists played once and are going to build something called a myrmidon battle cruiser, when we pointed out that we aren't going to put weapons on the darn thing they got most put out. Still on the subject of weapons the arrival of mech drop pod raid behind my defences lead to the construction of some secondary fallback defences. Several additional auto cannons and wall clusters to break los this served us well against future drops. A colonist is crushed when the mountain she thought was held up by a wall turned out not to be, unfortunately she chose to stand under the mountain at the same time as digging when any of the other 3 sides of the pillar would have been safe, I'm chalking this up to the lack of rimworld health and safety protocols. (research project: risk assesments?)
Our ship was completed and I began stockpiling some emergency supplies for the activation. I split the colony into 2 shifts that slept at different times of day, I hope this will better allow me to keep people rested during the struggle to come. There's plenty of wake up as a backup and I have actually aquired 100 yayo that I plan to distribute as required to keep moral up. With 200 survival meals in storage, reload stockpiles by my guns and plenty of trepidation I pressed the button.
Day 1: No movement its all quiet too quiet.
Day2: Tribals from 2 directions fall before our traps and autocannons.
Day 3: Mech drop catch the buggers with the old corner EMP grenade with chain shottie follow-up.
Day 4: A sapper raid followed by a Siege the sappers find that chem fuel i stored inside my wall week point, shortly after they find a Molotov. My huskies are somewhat singed and my chain shotguns ill suited for the open terrain outside my base so I call for help. Allies bloody the Siege and force it into a assualt which my turrets repel.
Day 5: I am able to rescue some of the downed allies from the relief force yesterday feel good to be able to do that they really came through for me.
Day 6: Solar flair turns off my turrets but then no attack comes.
Day 7: Mechs in a frontal assault filed them with Uranium goodness the reload stock piles begin to pay off.
Day 8: Tribals again but this time some friendlies come spontaneously and dispatch them in brutal fashion.
Day 9: A moment of respite
Day 10: Mech drop through the heat outlet for my base's freezer was not expecting an attack from that angle. The Huskies overrun them but many are injured and a bonded one dies I put their master into cryptosleed before they break as they where already injured and in a bad way.
Day 11: Flu on most of my day shift (does the game target that? or was it just chance) my night shift pop wake up and yayo and get by
Day 12: Outlander sappers very well armoured in flak my usual mob the sapper tunnel technique fails (probably due to the half strength chain shotguner numbers and attakers that stopped trying to go down the tunnel and returned fire) I retreat throwing a Molotov at the breach as I go my downed husky burns sadly but the flames injure enough of the attackers to trigger a retreat. Paddington if I had another mech res serum I'd use it on you boy.
Day 12: fire ravages the forest outside the breach from yesterday, many pawns in beds and few doctors luckily the flu patients are at the point where they can be taken off bedrest and will soldier through the last 20% to immunity out of bed.
Day13: Tribals sappers in plate armour I play it safe and call for help which damages them and causes the survivors to head for my main entrance instead they are cut down by my autocannons.
Day 14: Mech drop but really small 3 lancers 1 Scyther get destracted by autocannons and allow a few able bodied colonists to get in range with chain shotguns.
Day 15: Outland sappers all with melee weapons bit of a anticlimax they chase a pawn into the turrets it goes poorly for them.
Reactor online! I call a Bulk goods trader from my outlander allies, gift all my unbonded animals load up and head to the stars!
Takeaways
The balance on the last few 1.0 made for a much better experience pace wise. I am loving the new turrets and traps they feel way more impactful than the old turret killboxes and the lower power means I can have them spread throughout my base. Previously a group for 4 impro turrets didn't feel like much of a help if the raiders came from a odd angle or bypassed your main defence somehow, 3 auto cannons are a whole different ballgame. Traps even wooden ones are worth their weight even in the late game and allowed me to create cheep supplements to my defence as needed. The huskies were the undisputed stars of this run and despite having nearly 25 at one point 2 pawns where able to keep on top of all the training which I was initially concerned about. Didn't have any issues with the need for outdoors despite being under a mountain the only ones it even really stacked up on where my research team but they get to sit in +10 comfortable chairs a short walk from the pool table so they just took the hit. I found my first complete permadeath run to be extremely enjoyable and generally much more enjoyable than my previous savescum runs on higher difficulties everything had more investment and not picking ideal colonists made me see them more as individuals than skill points with legs. Managing my bases pyros and chem people was a pain but definitely manageable at this difficulty at least. I'm gonna take a short break before starting up a permadeath rough and seeing if I can get through that.
[attachment deleted due to age]
A colonist got its pelvis destroyed and there is nothing i can do about it (besides praying for the healer mech serum to fix that instead of some minor scratch somewhere else).
Do you plan on implementing another solution for this? Like bone prosthesis or something?
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 09:56:50 AM
The button's at the bottom of the storyteller select screen in the middle.
I'm curious why you refuse to ever try a lower difficulty? This is something I've observed in various forms and it's worth understanding the motivation.
Because it's already easy.
Interestingly, stranger in black probably makes naked brutality sea ice doable :3
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Builder - Naked Brutality
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest - Flat
Commitment mode: no (what is this?)
Current colony age (days): 236 (colony started with version .1959, now in .1980)
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10+
Complete mod list: none
screenshot gallery: https://imgur.com/a/1UsJl0A (3x with history graphs)
This is still my first naked start colony.
Played alot over the weekend.
Because I reduced the difficulty at some point back to builder, I was able to really focus on... whatever I wanted to do, really. Sure it takes some time, especially when you start with a single naked pawn, and stuff like plasteel and gold is rarer in this version, but eventually I am able to get everything when I really need it for something. Exept maybe for healer serum etc.
Haven't built/researched the long range scanner or deep drilling yet, it is next on my list though; but so far I am doing just fine with trading or scrap metal from scyther raids in terms of most rare materials.
I did quite a few caravan trips so far.
In the beginning a couple of rescue missions, 2 or three peacetalks, only one assault (risky... I guess), 1 or 2 hidden items and a handful of contract missions. Mostly in the mid and endgame.
Last one was in winter with one pawn getting the plague early on. Probably one with sickly trait that forgot to take his meds in time. ;)
This resulted in a very long/slow trip, but we made it just in time to deliver the guns for the contract.
Btw, imo it is not very logical that a pawn getting carried by a muffalo? results in such a reduced removement. Too bad I cannot remember the correct value, but it felt a bit harsh.
Maybe it was not taking into account that there were muffalos in the caravan, who could easily handle an additional meatstick on their backs.
I get ambushed here and there, but it never felt like a huge threat. I don't remember every "group" but often times I had only one raider or animal attacking my 4-6 colonists.
Not that I enjoy the beeing ambushed by huge gangs, but I think with 4 or more people in the caravan it should be at least 2 creatures incoming.
Because my colony is getting really big in terms of members, I guess I will start doing more riskier stuff like attacking another colony.
Even though I am playing on Builder difficulty, I still wish the world events that sometimes pop up on the world map would be more consistent.
It feels like there are sometimes days or weeks without anything interesting happening and then suddenly 3-4 things at once.
Atm I only see an incapacitated refugee on the map. (71 years old, RIP)
I guess installing the long range scanner will help a bit in that regard.
Overall I would like to see a bigger variety of stuff to do when looking on the map. Maybe even things like "Establish an Outpost", "build a barn for a faction" that gives an bonus payment if it is well done, or "deal with an rat infested corn field" on smaller maps. Stuff that is only there for a short period of time or some things maybe even without a timer like install a masterwork statue in a friendly colony ("statue of liberty") or join an assault of a rival colony.
I just had a harsh winter with a long cold snap. Longer than usual. Or maybe it was just the huge amount of animals I have atm that resulted in some starving. First I was able to micro manage with some fresh kibble and insect meat but this was just a solution for one day.
For some reason they stopped eating gras at -10 or -15 degrees, even though I can still clearly see some patches here and there.
Anyway, this coldsnap pushed my plans for a room of hydroponics. Now Cold Snaps like this should be more managable.
Sometimes you get so many new colonists and animals in a year it hits you really hard in the winter.
Cold snaps are quite common on my map, I wonder if the frequency has something to do with the growing period. (40/60)
Would be nice to have a mild winter now and then. ;)
Maybe with a mosquito plague then in the summer, resulting in a (higher) malaria chance and temporary mood debuff.
Stuff I haven't built or done but is still on my to do list:
• Finish the armory to for quicker access to heavy armor.
• Build some mortars.
• Long range mineral scanner action and later deep drilling madness.
• Colony w0r!
• High end armor (marine and energy) and weapons (lance, energy...)
• Remove- and replacment of the wooden walls from the beginning of the colony.
• Opening of the ancient evil caves. Looks like I have two of them on my map.
Btw, I already opened one on a second temporary outpost I have builtm when I was on my way on a contract mission.
Had to make a stop to get more meals before I continued. Or it was because of someting else, maybe an ambush. I don't remember.
I ended up building quite alot there, because of all the compacted machinery in the mountains I had to mine.
I was also traveling with alot of heavy uranium and plasteel (reward or from trade) so I ended up building pod launchers to send most of the heavy stuff via rocked.
Having an "outpost" or "camp" is wishful thinking. The game consideres this a normal colony so you get all kinds of normal stuff thrown at you, which resulted in an even longer time there.
Had to deal with some prisoners for example. I shot one back to main base. Turns out they flee immediatly, when they drop out of the pod.
At first I kept the map open so I could make a stop there during my next trip and pick up some of the stuff I had to left behind, but because even though noone was there, all kinds of events where still happening there, so I decided to give up the map after my second visit.
So among a few other ideas I want to share at the end, an outpost feature would be great. Maybe with a smaller then usual mapsize and a functionality that stops the map once everyone has left it, so the game does not have to process a whole second colony all the time.
Another thing that I noticed are problems with bed ownership from pawns on caravans.
Not quite sure what the usual procedure here is, but it looks like they loose ownerhip once they left the map, so new pawns will be able to claim their beds.
When the old owners return, they will find a new pawn sleeping in their bed (automaticly) if you have forgotten to micromanage the bed situation after recruiting.
It would be nice if a bed will not loose its owner while on a caravan.
Probably not just in the animals tab, the sorting feature does not work properly.
You can clearly see it when you start sorting by allowed area, for some reason it is never able to list all areas of one category in one continuous list. Same for all the other categories here.
Wildlife tab has similar problems.
The Work-, Restrict- and Assign-tab do have a functional sorting though.
A feature request at the end:
A safezone toggle in the animals tab. So all animals enter a designated safezone, with food, warmth, safety from enemies, and get back on their previous area after the threat is gone.
It is always a pain to micro all the zones back and forth. Especially when they aren't even sorted properly. So the more animals I have, the more zones I have to remember.
Thanks for listening!
AAR: Tough Kids! vs The Swamp
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temp Swamp with a River and Road
Commitment mode: no (never used it though)
Current colony age (days): 180ish
Hours played in the last 2 days: 12ish
No mods
Status: 13 Pawns (2 recruit, 2 banish, kept all the rest), 85kish wealth, and ALL research done.
Decided to do a "Childrens Crusade" - started with classic start and 3 kids. Classic start seemed very opulent, having played exclusively "Naked and Fearless" since 1.0 hit. I've never messed with swamp, which frankly was fun and interesting, though the fires killed my FPS a few times.
Focus was mostly on play without animal defenders, turrets, or traps. I have had a number of pawns downed and lost some limbs, but no fatalities or brain injuries. Mostly, I did bunkers ala Rhadamant and rushed Charge Lances and Shield Belts.
My first pawn to join was also a child. He made 2 kids with tough (Tough Kids!) and the two of them provided a lot of early tank. I bought guns through the early game (wealth limbo) and early I picked up a chain shotgun. One guy with the starting armor and a chain shotgun is a lot of early colony defense. Two, a bit later, carried us. Neither of them are among the bionic replacement list. I did get an inspiration at a good time and made a masterwork sniper, which also did a lot of carrying, especially on the first ship.
The river had a lot of marsh and swamp near it and I found only one place to put a watermill. I've made it on that and one thermal so far. Really, the river has done more as a fire break then anything else.
I have used a few one shots. I used to hoard them, but I have come to see them as the right response to many events happening at once - ie Poison Ship, manhunters, and a siege in two days. The Siege got a Triple Rocket from my medic/sniper, who was the only pawn unwounded after the first mess. I think 1k silver is a fair counter for a siege. It started a big blaze which pretty much ended the raiders who didn't just die.
Using pure bunkers, sappers earlyish were the biggest damage dealers. Some of it was micro neglect; I wanted to see how it would work out ... for science. My bunker was mostly on bridges over swamp/river .... which doesn't deal with frags so well. Bunker was a mess, but no one died so....
Swamp has so much wood that I have never had to invest in heaters or coolers besides the fridge: I have just used camp fires and passive coolers in mass quantities, seasonally. My base connects most halls to the big storage/bonfires/barn/etc room, and it has been sufficient through both cold and warm snaps. I am a big believer in using thermal exhaust and freezer exhaust as heating. Heaters/Coolers/Power to run them are all wealth and use rather dear resources...
My base is very much an organic thing. It started with two rooms (the left most rooms actually) against some small hills. Everything else is "form follows what I want it to do next". I use 2x5 bedrooms, because they do ok on mood and two next to each other gives flex: you can knock out the wall and make a crafting room or hospital or bigbedroom or whatever you need. All my buildings were free standing until the first winter hit, then I enclosed the freezer/bedrooms/etc to take advantage of the therm and cooler exhaust. If your going to build "organic", it doesn't hurt to do it efficient/flexible.
To manage wood issues in the winter and wealth/firewood, I use spare time to make bridges and wood floors in a lot of places. Basically, everything that is not rich soil in the courtyard. Its a lot faster to remove bridges then to harvest trees ... and bridges/floors have no wealth. Tiny bits of move speed here and there don't hurt either.
Probably the biggest lesson learned was I built something over my horseshoe pin and didn't notice it until I hit 75k wealth (which is where you go from 18 to 12 mood from expectations and a need for 3 to 4 forms of entertainment) and had a lot of people become bored with the 3 rec forms they had and start to get a bit .... twitchy.
In the screenie, you may be able to see my scrap metal hoard .... sitting on swamp/bridges in the courtryard/fields. Re: "Things Dogs Can Do While Wealth Limbo/Research Occur". I think its 130ish, though double click won't grab more then 80 at a time. With the new values for smelting ..... that plus the mechanoids and big corpses in the back of the fridge ..... are still zero wealth.
So .... its a bit hard to see. There is a door and a bridge over the river at the south end of the base. That is for sending the melees out with shield belts and thrombo horns once the raid has chosen targets in the bunker (the right one is the one I leave the doors open to all the time). That is fun and generally effective.
Can we have an option for an in game clock as well as the real time clock? That would be appreciated - as going to the world map the check the daylight line is not the most exact method.
Tynan, if it would not be offensive, could you post a clear explanation of how wealth is calculated? Is it everything on the map, everything in home area, everything in stockpiles, etc? I think you said equipment on pawns is not an issue - does that mean pawn value, including for trade, ignores items in inventory etc? While I am not sure I like the "wealth limbo" meta, if it is here to stay, I would appreciate a clean understanding of it.
As always, thanks for the game and Cheers.
[attachment deleted due to age]
A suggestion for gameplay, in progress:
It would make it significantly easier for trading/caravaning purposes to be able to check off a box on the "Animals" tab that designates an animal that you intend to sell.
Just a simple "$" or "Sell?" heading with a column next to the circled "Bonded/Slaughter/Medical Care" Headings, which also displays when the Caravan and Trading Menus come up. They wouldn't automatically be traded, of course...this would just be reminding you which ones you intend to sell.
I've been writing the animals to be sold on a sheet of paper up until now. I have many, many of these sheets of paper. I'd like to have less.
(https://i.imgur.com/YvV7DDC.png?1)
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 30, 2018, 07:03:08 PM
A suggestion for gameplay, in progress:
It would make it significantly easier for trading/caravaning purposes to be able to check off a box on the "Animals" tab that designates an animal that you intend to sell.
Just a simple "$" or "Sell?" heading with a column next to the circled "Bonded/Slaughter/Medical Care" Headings, which also displays when the Caravan and Trading Menus come up. They wouldn't automatically be traded, of course...this would just be reminding you which ones you intend to sell.
I've been writing the animals to be sold on a sheet of paper up until now. I have many, many of these sheets of paper. I'd like to have less.
I suppose you could just have a zone designated. But that could get complicated depending on how your zones are set up. Temporarily at least while we wait for your suggestion to be implemented...
You could rename them "Sell Me".
Quote from: weatherdown on July 30, 2018, 07:11:15 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 30, 2018, 07:03:08 PM
A suggestion for gameplay, in progress:
It would make it significantly easier for trading/caravaning purposes to be able to check off a box on the "Animals" tab that designates an animal that you intend to sell.
Just a simple "$" or "Sell?" heading with a column next to the circled "Bonded/Slaughter/Medical Care" Headings, which also displays when the Caravan and Trading Menus come up. They wouldn't automatically be traded, of course...this would just be reminding you which ones you intend to sell.
I've been writing the animals to be sold on a sheet of paper up until now. I have many, many of these sheets of paper. I'd like to have less.
I suppose you could just have a zone designated. But that could get complicated depending on how your zones are set up. Temporarily at least while we wait for your suggestion to be implemented...
I have all zones in use at all times, so that wouldn't work for me. I've got the "To Be Sold" list jotted down on a physical notepad at the moment.
Thanks, though...I appreciate the idea. :)
Quote from: Copperwire on July 30, 2018, 07:37:45 PM
You could rename them "Sell Me".
Sure...the wording or symbol isn't critical, just so long as there's an easy way to see it simultaneously on the trading/caravan/animal screens.
Had a weird (amusing) bug with the new patch, wanted to mention it just in case. Sorry if it's known already.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Builder
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, large hills
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): 153 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10ish?
Complete mod list: none
I have a pretty standard trap/killbox setup, the rest of my base is walled off. See below:
(https://i.imgur.com/tPBu2Gs.jpg)
Started playing this morning after the patch hit. Heard an explosion and saw that a boomrat had triggered one of the pictured traps. Alright. I'm about to swap over to check something else out when suddenly, I spot a giant wave of every single squirrel, raccoon, rat, boomrat, and boomalope on the map converging on that exact spot. They all enter the killzone, run through the traps and trigger them.
My first thought was manhunter pack or that one psychic effect causing everything to go manhunter. I hadn't gotten an alert, and to be honest I was panicking and didn't think to grab a screenshot. But none of the dozens of animals were aggroed, and none of them had the manhunter status. Some made it past the traps, none of them triggered the turrets, and they just wandered around my base for a while before leaving again. Free meals, at least? .
Just read through all of the changelog but havent tried it out yet as i lack time irl to even play rimworld once in a blue moon. anyway, by far most of the changes are for the better (and there are manyof those, just look at the list). many of them now essentially implemented mods into vanilla which i love because i am generally not a big fan of modding for various reasons (nevertheless i do play with 5-10 mods on at all times).
it takes too long to say all the good things about 1.0, so here are the few negatives i could find or even just doubts that arose while reading through the whole list:
- not happy about what happened to scythers because now it seems i can rush the lancers with infantery or even animals and shoot the now melee-only scythers down from afar. like this they are completely obselete in mid to late game in comparison to centipedes. i'd rather have upped their "worth" in combat, as in so that they dont spawn early on when you cant defend yourself against them properly. but oh well, i havent tried the new mode out so what do i know. maybe in the end essentially nerfing sythers will prove to be perfectly acceptable due to the newly gained value of infantery pawns.
- new traits: i have never quite understood what exactly went through your head (no offence) when you made all of them. i have always paid a special amount of attention to them and backstories and i wonder about your selection of them. there were so many other good ones mentionned in the suggestions topic...anyway, all new traits seem to be good and relevant at least.
- prosthetic hearts seem like a really good thing to add that i have never read about, but what's up with all the archotech? are they just an excuse to give advanced components more of a meaning? i very much liked the idea that a player may never ever lay his hands onto archotech, but now that is has been introduced, what else is to come?
- turrets needing barrel changes, animals in need of retraining, smoothing rock walls (and the prior existance of smooth floorings) and deep drills causing insect attacks all make it look like the only sensible way of starting colonies is in highly mountainous areas where you can start mountain bases for defense and cheap, low-tech beautiful rooms. sure, you get insects in there aswell, but those you can also get around easily with the heater trick. i dont like mountain bases one bit and i thought they were pure cheese eversince smooth floorings were introduced to the game. i can live with sieges not shooting me anymore, i can live with way easier temperature control, i can live with easily defendable positions. what i cant stand is that (aside from golden floorings) even in late game it is the best option for beauty (and therefore sanity). maybe this is oddly specific, but you can always improvise some type of killbox and maneuver your pawns in a way that the mortar cant get a single shot off. temperature control is especially easy since this game allows for fortress builds, which makes it outright easy in late game even in very difficult environments. but you shouldve at least left the beauty debuff for those moles that wanted to live in the rock. it's not like you cant get around it anyway. i'd just sleep more comfy if i knew that my carpet flooring and normal ass walls are sth the mountaineers can only dream of for a long time.
- about animals: the more i play this game the less i like animals. they are really expensive to train especially at first and they are so easy to lose in raids. aside from pack animals and chicken i barely have any anymore, eventhough i used to be able to boast about having vast armies of those furry beasts. sicknesses and unlearning doesnt help, just makes chicken more powerful. (sick ones get eaten i guess).
- alphabeavers: why? they CAN and WILL eat all the trees in normal biomes aswell and once your colony is large enough. (even in tropical rainforests if not taken care of. happened to me once, you wouldnt think it would happen until it does. it was right after a very messy raid.) honestly, alphabeavers were in a perfectly fine place.
- scyther blades have been removed...ok...why? just because you couldnt find a proper way to implement them? honestly, now that animals unlearn and there is more of an emphasis on diplomacy, a double scyther blade brawler that outside of combat does animal stuff and diplomacy is a perfectly viable strategy (even if improbable). and if nothing else, they allow a handless pawn to interact with the world around him again if no other cure is there. also you could sell them. i always looked very much forward to mech raids because of this reason, also their bodies for taking apart ofc.
- mechanoids dying on down makes sense from a game play perspective because they still act as bullet sponges and are still hard to get rid of if the battle is over if you cant shut them down. but logic wise i dont think this is a good idea. so i shoot the legs off of a scyther and it cant shoot me anymore with its lance and shuts down? nah, no way. it will figure out a way to make my life as miserable as possible.
- why is it a thing now that exotic goods outlander traders dont trade furniture anymore? not saying it is necessarily bad but i am definitely left confused.
- why did you remove green thumb? was it a nerf because it was op?
- i noticed electric armor earlier. what was it for anyway?
- what does "combined ribs into rib cage" mean? can i still shatter single ribs? can i now break them and they will all always heal? is the ribcage now essentially just another part of the torso that you can damage (through crits like other bones and organs) and heal? what happens if your ribcage loses all its hp? crippled for life like with a shattered spine or insta-kill? or just lowered mobility?
- removed shoddy and superior, so what we're left with is awful, poor, normal, good, excellent, masterwork and legendary? how did the quality limits and effects change due to this?
- why dont enemies use rocket launchers on caravan raids anymore? too hard to deal with? if so, how about you just disable them for lower difficulties? i still have mighty fun encountering them like that.
- settling close to factions worsening relations is kinda weird, because wouldnt you want your friends to be close by? on the other hand i can totally understand why this is a thing now. otherwise it is too easy to trade cheaply and without any real restrictions.
- tainted means d/deadman's, right? so we are stuck with burning everything except stuff that we wanna keep. alright, at least there is more use for my cremation desk/crematorium or whatever it's called.
- why dont traders accept "typical short-life meals" anymore? it was a great and easy way of selling stuff to them even in early game when you dont own too much sellable stuff. so now we will have bulk goods traders and bases that accept raw meat but no meals? how does that make any sense. if i was a trader on a caravan i'd be glad if i could get some fresh food for now and the upcoming days so that i dont have to live from pemmican only. this is one of the few things i firmly believe should be undone. while you're at it, i'd even make it possible to sell meals to any trader because all of them need food. no matter if you're a weapons dealer and your family has only ever dealt with weapons for generations, you still need food and any reasonable person is glad if he gets some fresh food served. if anything, implement a limit to the amount of meals being able to be sold at to a trader, so noone can abuse it by selling hundreds of fresh meals to them. but still you'd need the same kind of limit for fresh meat aswell, which you dont have, so, really, just forget about this implementation of yours and just allow us to sell meals to everyone, including pemmican. please.
- tame animals affect colony wealth? great, one more reason to just hunt everything that moves, no need for them anymore. they poop everywhere anyway and eat valuable objects, so screw them. dont get me wrong, i am not mad about this change, it just makes my choices for my next games much easier; no more taming (except pack animals).
- beauty of floors have been rebalanced - if one of my points doesnt stand anymore, nevermind it.
- also, did roses suddenly become more of a thing now? like a proper rose bush that you can grow now?
- wow, big moves on psm, very interesting. but still, who needs it if pemmican is more efficient and still stays good for soooo long? additionally, it is much quicker to make if you made a little stop with your caravan...but yeah, now they are WAY more viable. if i may add sth, since they are PACKAGED meals, why cant we put more than 10 in one pile? i understand why you can only put 10 fine meals in one pile, because the trays and plates stack quickly and may break. but if it's packaged, i dont think there is anything to stop my pawns from building a tower of 75 packages like from lego. or maybe 50, like components.
- i honestly still think that beds are too cheap and quick to build. like, way too much so.
- omg, just read all the nerfs to animals. well, goodbye any reasonable amount of playtime with animals and hello single (starting/bond) animal playthroughs.
- pekoe still seems to outclass beer as far as i can tell from this data and from how they were last time i played.
all in all 24 points but dont get scared, most of them arent criticism but questions. and as said, i skipped hundreds of points where i wouldve been like: "hell yeah, love this change, finally, perfect, just what i wanted, no need for mods anymore, tynan ily, wowie, awesome, awww yeah👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍" (unironically)
So... the AI Core quest this time was guarded by 12 manhunting rats. There was a nearby peace talk, a 4 enemy outpost, and two friendly villages, so I decided to do them in a big circle, so I sent 3 pawns and 5 muffalo plus a bunch of trade junk.
I did the rats ... more like the Muffalo did 10 rats and we shot 2 and patched 1 Muffalo cause she got an owie. Usually, I don't mess with dead animals on convoy, but we were 2 hexes down a road from a village and basically empty, having hit one village already .... so I decided to butcher, because ... why not.
In for a penny .... so I did the berries/healroot on the map, made a horseshoe pin for the guy getting rec loopy, sheared the muffalo, and shot all the bigger wildlife etc. Net, 2.4k silver in about 6 game hours. Traded that for 2 Doomsday cause Meat > Doomsday Rockets.
1. If animal corpses had slightly lower value and slightly longer spoil time then butchered meat/leather it would both make hunting trips/caravan interactions more realistic/rewarding and do something about the 24 muffalo in the freezer is zero wealth factor. There are still times you might want to butcher, to drop the weight or save space (much like real life). I think doing this while dropping the value of food across the board (whats worth more, an autopistol or a bail (200) of hay? trick question: you can't sell hay, which do you want to steal? do you have a tractor to take the 20 bails of hay with you? are you afraid of my hay so you brought more bros?) would smooth out the game a bit and firm up the setting.
2. The outpost I did before this came to net ~500 silver and 4 components - because most of what they had were weapons (which seem to have a "sin" tax ...). I took and sold the lamps etc (use all parts of the .... Muffalo victims, especially the ones that aren't "sin" taxed). The reward (a plasteel table and a jade chair) will sell for maybe 500 silver. The relative value seems off. If looting a random hex + 12 rats gives twice the relative value of a quest reward and a looted outpost, why would anyone bother?
3. I am pretty sure I could have bought the two Doomsday, left, pressed attack, and leveled the town. I think 1.2k is a bit low for a "blow up your town" rocket and I am not sure a neutral village should trust me that much :)
Quote from: Nynzal on July 30, 2018, 01:50:05 PM
Quote from: Orionreach on July 30, 2018, 12:55:59 PM
I see that you've returned to the original component / advanced component models! Personally I'm really happy about that. Speaking of, after playing the game a bit with the new meat models, something just feels off about them still. I honestly think they should return to their original design and colors.. Don't fix what isn't broken right?
I strongly disagree, the overall direction of the art changes are great: Stronger colors, much clearer what that stuff is supposed to be. The old components are not as good, the new ones were my favorite art change so far. Although the meat is not as great as the components, it goes in the same direction, only the color is not as strong.
I agree with this guy on the new art direction. Extremely disappointed to see the devs change it back. Loved the new components, silver and meat. #bringbackredcubes
ah dang, never got to see the new components... If we are talking reverting textures I'd love to see the old wood floors back, the new ones are dull-colored. Previously they were nice and warm, the base looked pretty at night :)
Storyteller: Cass crashlanded
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Flat tundra
Commitment mode: nope
Current colony age (days): 90-ish
Hours played in the last 2 days: 12-ish, all before today's updates
Complete mod list: mod-free for unstable
Year 2 arrives. It seems like most of the reports here are from people with large colonies, but I haven't had much luck getting new pawns to recruit who aren't saddled with awful traits (I do not accept pyros or druggies or food hogs). The acceptable raiders either die or have multiple important bits shot off. With only 4 pawns so far, every new person needs to contribute something real to make up for the spike in wealth and food needs they would bring. But 4 people isn't enough to keep things running in the short, hectic growing season. I only have 20 days to grow all the food for the year AND complete caravans before it snows AND defend against the raiders who love the warm weather.
While my 2 growers are running around planting, I get a request for 31 cowboy hats from a settlement 2 days to the south. I actually have the crafter and the cotton to get it done, but it's a gamble to send a caravan anywhere with so few people. I decide to risk it because I have nothing to trade otherwise--I love making drug farms in year-round growing biomes but this is obviously harder on the frozen tundra. So Blackjack the crafter spits out 31 hats in record time (feels like crafting clothing goes faster now, maybe I'm imagining it?) and I send him off to trade. We get an archotech arm which is cool but less appealing than more components, a shield belt, and the healthy slave with no gross traits for sale. So we're finally up to 5 pawns.
Unfortunately the new pawn joins at the same time the massive fields of food are ready to harvest and I failed to properly anticipate the resulting wealth spike. We go from raids of 4-5 nerds with pea shooters to raids of 9 people with grenades and fire weapons, and we have no killbox and only half an outer wall. The new pawn has some melee skill so I spend an Inspiration making him a Masterwork suit of steel armor to go with the shield belt I bought with him, and I decide to bite the bullet and use our steel on traps. It is... somewhat effective. I place them on the corners of buildings where raiders will seek cover. So 1-2 raiders each time are removed from combat at the cost of 35 steel each, and the rest are dealt with by shooting from doorways and having Partridge the Unshootable Metal Colossus attract gunfire, ambush grenadiers around corners, and bar the way to melee attackers. He's gotten set on fire more than either of us would like but otherwise we've managed to keep the colony from serious harm, even after jerks drop-podded directly into our bedrooms. Best 31 cowboy hats I ever spent.
Thoughts:
* The new trap situation is still way harsh on resource-scarce maps. It does help some that they now cost 35 stuff and you get 40 steel from a square now. But I'd much rather spend that precious steel on other things--but there's no wood to waste on the tundra and crafting stone traps takes way too long, I discovered, especially in a colony with little manpower. They absolutely work, every single raider who steps on one is killed or downed reliably, and that is good. Unfortunately they are just as likely to work on something dumb, like the 6 manhunter hares who ended up costing me 100+ steel. Why, Bigwig, why?? I think this is a move that punishes small and less established colonies and those in harsher biomes. I say that as someone who never used "trap mazes" or dedicated trap corridors but simply found them an effective way to thin the herd in a killbox and also to foil sappers.
* Melee combat feels good now. The skill rises much faster than I remember and the new additions like kicking dirt in someone's eyes give it flavor. The new plate armor gives good protection from the sudden limb losses or heart-stabbing deaths that I remember from early melee combat in previous games. Partridge only has 8 skill and no Brawler or Nimble but he's still the MVP in raids right now with my no-killbox setup.
* The raids that drop pod into the middle of your base have never happened so early for me before. I managed to hold this one off with only the loss of a bed with rad artwork (sad) but now I have to consider whether I want my pawns wearing some degree of armor at all times because they can't throw it on quickly like they used to. It's a tricky decision in a climate that is dangerously cold for much of the year. Parkas keeps us safer than flak jackets on 9/10 days and are less uggo on 10/10. I'm fine with this being a strategic choice now, but may I humbly request that if constant armor is going to be a possible necessity, we get the option to turn it off visually in the colonist bar, like the toggle for hats? Keep Rimworld beautiful, hide the fugly flak.
* I had an arctic fox and a snowhare self-tame and both eventually reverted to the wild because I had no one to do taming maintenance on them. Being desperate for trade, I took them to two colonies trying to sell them, neither would buy them, nor would any of the multiple bulk goods and exotic goods caravans and orbital traders who visited in the forty-one days it takes for a fox to go wild. Does anyone at all buy these animals now?
* I am another player who uses flagstone to make outdoor walkways and I also would like it to cost less. I think 2 stone per square is quite reasonable for a path with no beauty that takes stonecutting labor to create and from which you will get no resources back. I was using a mod to make it cost 2 per before I removed mods for the unstable version.
* Re: new traits, Undergrounder doesn't really seem to... do anything. Maybe it's because I don't play mountain bases, but back when I did I remember it pretty much being a non-issue to take a Cabin Fever pawn outside for 10 seconds, problem solved. It is implemented very "flavorfully" by being linked to the backgrounds about mining and living underground, which I like a lot, but the gameplay impact seems to be nil. I also wonder why my Undergrounder pawn is so whiny about darkness, shouldn't she be used to dark places if she grew up in a cave? Regarding pawns who love/hate artificial body parts, I am still very confused about exactly what types of replacement body parts (regular prosthetic-->bionics-->archotech) will affect which types of pawns. Bionics used to be neutral for pawns without traits, but then you added I Never Asked For This, but then removed it? Regular prosthetics are considered "enhanced body parts" by Transhumanists even though they suck worse than flesh? Help, I am so confused. Right now I'm completely avoiding Body Purist pawns because the wording on the trait is so vague that I don't know if, like, saving their life with a regular prosthetic heart will upset them. If that's the case, it might just be the worst trait in the entire game.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618563527424639/D598B521987F0400745A160C961B37A35AC7B874/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618563527424078/9EB1DC53448454877CE7355F85FE52B0E2BCBB6C/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/994618563527424393/62B552D9FC4EEA15FF8A8C2853333EFFC4544F9D/
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, Mountainous
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): 16
Hours played in the last 2 days: 15+
Complete mod list: none
Crash landed with 3 guys/gals, put the given flak armor on the best shooter along with a bolt action rifle. The other 2 were about even so one go the pistol and the other the knife (all starting items). On day 16 I got a raid. 1 naked chic with a knife. (had the Tough bonus). She proceeded to annihilate my camp and kill all my chickens until "The Man in Black" showed up and even HE barely managed to put her down..
Something seems a bit off for this to happen on Medium difficulty. Likewise a chinchilla (angry or not) shouldn't be able to take down someone in full flak (that happened on like day 2).
Just a very minor visual suggestion. When you do select merciless mode, the colors don't look like you actually selected anything. I could see this being a red-green color blind issue.
Was chemfuel removed as a deep drill resource? I searched through the thread and didn't see anything saying such (could have missed it), but I just got deep-drilling and noticed that my map has red-patches, which are all chemfuel, and when drilled only give 1 chemfuel per portion. I've had this colony since build 1975. So has something changed in between those that I missed? Vanilla, no mods - new colonies do not have chemfuel pockets anywhere, using devmode to check.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Savage
Scenario: Tribal start
Biome/hilliness: Tundra, flat, river
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): 395
Hours played in the last 2 days: 12+
Complete mod list: No Forced Slowdown, Progress Renderer
Made a tribal colony to test current research points for tribals. Feels pretty balanced, it sure took longer to progress through research tree, but not too much.
Some observations and suggestion from this colony:
* When assigning pawn a weapon it's crucial to know their accuracy (not just shooting). It'd be useful if there was a way to see current accuracy (including effects of scars, lost eyes, bad backs, traits and so on) easier, maybe in the tooltip when mouse over the shooting skill. Though temporary illness might interfere with it.
* Transhumanists happy from peg legs doesn't feel right.
* It's cool that now we have a button to copy bills, but it would be nice to also have a button to copy-paste all bills from a workbench, like storage settings. Most of the time when I copy bills from one bench to another I need to copy all of them, not one. Buttons are also pretty small, so maybe a hotkey would be useful, again like for storage settings.
* When I select some pawns and command them to attack, all melee pawns rush to the target while I just want my gunners to shoot. If there was a separate button for "only ranged attack" like there is for melee attack It'd be nice.
* Mining drill better be signed as unpowered when empty. Otherwise I need one more click to reinstall them and, if I'm not mistaken, they continue to drain power for nothing.
* While trading or loading caravan/transport pod it's easy to misclick item you want, It'd be better if the whole row was highlighted while mouse is over it, not just a segment of it.
* When you have big livestock it's hard to check everyone's health (say, I want to maintain some number of muffalos for caravans and need to see if some have lost legs and need replacement). A way to cycle through them like it is with colonists, or maybe extra info bar in "Animal" tab would do.
* Caravans are so much more convenient! <3
I found threats are quite balanced and progression with wealth was not as terrifying for now as I though it would be.
But I found that there is no way to depart from a site partly or make a few trips to and from, only to abandon it completely, yet sometimes I'd like to send only part of my caravan back or to get second caravan in and then return it. Once I had more stuff on my caravan than it could haul (few consecutive successful mining trips) and tried to get the stuff to another site with splitting caravan and making two trips, but there was no way to depart from the mining site when I got there other than abandon it.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 09:56:50 AM
Quote from: Andy_Dandy on July 30, 2018, 09:53:23 AM
How do you enable merciless now? I refuse to play on anything less difficult.
The button's at the bottom of the storyteller select screen in the middle.
I'm curious why you refuse to ever try a lower difficulty? This is something I've observed in various forms and it's worth understanding the motivation.
In my case it is vanity, pure and simple. Attaining success on the max possible difficulty in the game give a feeling of superiority that is rarely obtainable in the real world due to abundant competition. Even eventually failing give this feeling as well, because you courageously made an attempt against seemingly impossible odds, going down in valiant struggle, feeling like a hero.
Lowering difficulty on the other hand seem like giving up, admitting being weak, picking an easy and cheap way out, same as when you cheating. Unbearable feeling of sadness, like you are not good enough, not even for beating a game.
I don't think chemfuel deep drilling is supposed to produce 1 chemfuel per cycle
Man I really liked the new component look, now we're back to the turtle components :-[ :'( :'(
While im here, for the longest time I thought the 'Cut Plants' icon was a green rubber glove over a knife hahah.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate, flat
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 141
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~20
Complete mod list: none
My colony is right up against one of the map edges. I can't recall the last time I've ever had a raid spawn immediately adjacent to the base (I actually assumed it's coded to spawn map edge raids some minimum distance away), but I just had a refugee raid spawn right on top of it (see screenshot to see what I mean, you can see the map edge in the picture). Bug? Maybe it happened because it was a chase event rather than a regular raid?
34 raiders isn't too much of a threat to this colony normally... But when the fleeing nurse appeared right next to the colony I knew things might go a bit awry. It was a real rush to get some walls/sandbags thrown up before the raid appeared, but there wasn't time to equip the colonists properly for battle... But Tomomi had a doomsday launcher, and she finally had a good enough reason to use it... 15 raiders killed in one shot. Yikes.
I guess I'd better build a wall on that side of the base, to slow them down a little if it happens again.
Aside, I think the newer meat textures are good now. I really liked the new component textures, before they got reverted.
The colony has finally teched up to drop pods. My first observation is that, unlike caravans, there's no way to modify the load without cancelling and starting again (in particular, I'd like to be able to load goods into the drop pod like normal... but be able to later add the colonist (e.g. right click 'get in drop pod'))
EDIT: oh, and another thing... I tried using Drug Policies for the first time. I liked the idea of having my soldiers carry around go-juice and my doctors wake-up, so I set up some policies that had 'take to inventory' set to 1, but 'only if recreation below' set to 1%, so they wouldn't actually use the drugs... Just have them to hand in case of emergencies. However, they never even pick up the drugs. :/
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: dogthinker on July 31, 2018, 04:01:48 AM
My colony is right up against one of the map edges. I can't recall the last time I've ever had a raid spawn immediately adjacent to the base (I actually assumed it's coded to spawn map edge raids some minimum distance away), but I just had a refugee raid spawn right on top of it (see screenshot to see what I mean, you can see the map edge in the picture). Bug? Maybe it happened because it was a chase event rather than a regular raid?
I don't think it's coded like that. You would be able to control where raids spawn with a few walls or random items placed strategically.
In other words: Never build at the map edge, except on mountain maps (the mountainous side) or coastal tiles (the sea side).
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 31, 2018, 04:17:51 AM
Quote from: dogthinker on July 31, 2018, 04:01:48 AM
My colony is right up against one of the map edges. I can't recall the last time I've ever had a raid spawn immediately adjacent to the base (I actually assumed it's coded to spawn map edge raids some minimum distance away), but I just had a refugee raid spawn right on top of it (see screenshot to see what I mean, you can see the map edge in the picture). Bug? Maybe it happened because it was a chase event rather than a regular raid?
I don't think it's coded like that. You would be able to control where raids spawn with a few walls or random items placed strategically.
In other words: Never build at the map edge, except on mountain maps (the mountainous side) or coastal tiles (the sea side).
though if it's cave-featured mountainous map, you may get a big chunk of empty land right behind your back if not checked with dev mode, happened to me once :|
also, does raiders and whatnot come from inside the mountain if i dig until the every edge tile (basically "open" the mountain from inside)?
Quote from: Syrchalis on July 31, 2018, 04:17:51 AMI don't think it's coded like that. You would be able to control where raids spawn with a few walls or random items placed strategically.
In other words: Never build at the map edge, except on mountain maps (the mountainous side) or coastal tiles (the sea side).
Ah, you know, I think I used to do that, but since rivers and roads came in I prioritise those, as they make the map a bit more interesting. I also played on much larger maps (but the tooltip for those now suggests the game doesn't quite work right on those)... So maybe I'm just noticing it more now.
There's not really room for an exploit, there are quite trivial algorithms that could decide which point of the map edge the colony is closest to, overall. Which IMO would be a good idea, given the recommended map sizes are pretty tight.
I'll probably still build near the edge regardless. I'd rather have no notice
some of the time, than have not
enough notice all the time. The time it takes for a raid to walk across the map is barely enough time for the colonists pull on some armour and get positioned before the raid hits, really.
I'm pretty sure that is what happens. Might need enough space for them to spawn there, but I'm not sure, could be that 1 tile is enough. That's why it's pretty bad if you get an open area under a mountain that is connected to the map edge.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 390 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
Debug Graphs/Notes for v.1990
-Very difficult evening of gameplay; sent out a caravan of 2 colonists, which left me at 6 colonists guarding the fort. Three raids occurred; the first of which was a Sapper Raid that required an Animal Meat Shield, and killed off 70% of my animal hauling force. I've got them all in the freezer, awaiting burial.
The second raid happened very soon after: a Siege of about 25, where three Pirates were toting Doomsday Launchers. My longest ranged gun was a single Sniper Rifle. This one was difficult enough that I savescummed for over an hour, avoiding colonist deaths. I finally defeated the raid, with one colonist downed, and several others badly hurt.
The third raid was another Sapper raid, about the same strength (25). This time, my caravan had returned home, and I was able to mass my forces around the perimeter of the base, and essentially pick them off, one by one. 5 colonists wounded, two seriously.
-I figured out the workaround for the profusion of Mental Breaks that my colonists were experiencing; I got them off Nutrient Paste (and the -4 debuff), and went all-in with Lavish Meals (+12). That +16 swing changed things fairly significantly...breaks are far less common, although I don't know if I can sustain Lavish Meals for too much longer (Kibble supply is competing heavily for the meat).
After some considered thought about the issue, it might not be a bad design decision to a) require a small amount of research for the NPD (300, perhaps) before it can be unlocked, and return the "Ate Awful Meal" debuff to -3. It was critical to have the NPD in the early part of the game, where food supply was low, cooking skills poor, and food poisoning is a constant threat; assigning a full-time cook or two would slow down other areas that are critical to getting into mid-game as soon as possible.
With that being said, the NPD -4 debuff isn't much greater than the old -3, of course...but when that additional point is combined with other new debuffs (soaking wet, for instance), those extra debuffs have a substantially greater effect on gameplay.
-One last consideration: there's often a critical period after a battle, where the colony is scrambling to heal the wounded, and Mental Breaks occur very frequently; it's possible to have one or more pawns who are giving or receiving critical medical care to experience breaks, because they're a) in pain, b) tired, c) hungry, and d) recreation deprived.
I think that a temporary mood buff for winning the battle is in order. Something along the lines of "We drove them off! +10 for 24 hours". I can attest that most after-battle 24 hour periods have been a genuine shit-parade, and I don't believe it's through bad micro or bad triaging decisions. Something along these lines would prevent a second raid that comes right on the heels of the first raid from turning into a catastrophe. Just a thought...
Graphs from tonight:
(https://i.imgur.com/4h6UpII.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/LKa6Wpe.png)
New build!
No major changes this time, just small balance tweaks and bugfixes.
Thank for all offering play stories and related feedback!
Sometimes I wonder if you're being super vague so you don't spawn another 10 pages of theorycrafting Tynan lol
Anyway actual stuff to note:
On barrel changes, I don't mind them all that much but it seems to me that even with all jobs done, I have to manually order pawns to shove more steel in em'. It'd be nice to have something akin to the drop pod's fuel tank where pawns will only haul after after a certain threshold has been met.
Hi devs! Quick question: why is 'Look everywhere'/'Look in stockpile X' only available for Do Until You Have X and not for Do Forever and Do X Times? And why isn't it available at all for Butchery (and, I presume, other such tasks)? Is this temporary, or a bug?
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 31, 2018, 07:59:00 AM
Sometimes I wonder if you're being super vague so you don't spawn another 10 pages of theorycrafting Tynan lol
Have you ever written changelogs? It requires more effort than what it is usually worth imo, better to spend it on fixing stuff.
Probably! But hey, what do I know?
World map is a mess. It can be better:
1. Button to return to home base instead of needlessly looking for them when you're looking at the world map.
2. Being able to see what factions are friendly and what aren't, showing relations by hovering over them.
3. Big icons to notify what settlement needs what quests. It's inconvenient to go through messages in the history tab. Also would be nice if we can pin em' too.
4. Destroying a raider outpost has a 3 day limit. Destroying a raider base has a 1 day limit. I think it would be better to just remove them entirely. I beat them, and if I want to spend a season hauling all that steel I should be able to.
5. We can forage food but why not set up a temporary camp and hunt some wild animals? It would actually be very useful for tribals. It's also historically accurate, going away for a week to hunt for food.
6. Item stashes and destroying outposts are IMO the funnest quests. Why not an ancient danger quest too?
Finished up my save game - launched the ship at about 390 days, with 13/14 pawns surviving (15 if you count one that only lasted a few days). Used the extra pod for a pet dog.
Cass Rough - Crash Landed, 30/30 Temp Forest, Large Hills, Caves, Permadeath.
Took a bit of time with this, so it spans across several versions (file created on 7/9/18). I did accidentally start on Cass medium, changed it to rough when I realized - I think that may have broken my debug graph? It seems abnormally flat after day 80ish, not sure why else it might be.
Rerolled for a bit, started with Cave (high Shooting, good Social/Melee, decent Construction), Jenni (good Research/Medical), and Novak (night owl cook, good Shooting, acceptable Growing). First pawn had chemical interest, but it only came up a couple times. Didn't realize until I started that I had overlooked the 1st & 2nd pawn both missing dumb labor; used a bit of additional micro to handle it until I rescued a 4th pawn.
I set up camp in the shadow of a hill/cave system near a patch of fertile soil. I relied on walls and my pawns for early-mid game defense; several of the pawns I picked up along the way had decent shooting or melee stats. I eventually set up a line of traps at the "main" entrance to the base, which generally softened most targets to the point that I could handle them without many losses.
I went on most caravan expeditions after recruiting an early Muffalo, often just sending Cave for trading (outfitted with a good long-range weapon and eventually power claws). Later started sending 2-3x pawns, when I had to pod out a medic to patch him up. Caravan rewards were pretty generous, including several healer serums, a large number of Glitter meds, 2x resurrection serums (both used on Novak, I think Lancers both times). Got a few of the specialty weapons (e.g. orbitals), which were useful during the ship charge-up period.
I like having an early researcher, unlocking things like geothermal/fabrication/etc. earlier is nice. Ground drills made a huge difference - found 2x plasteel deposits, along with a uranium and gold deposit. Eventually ended up with so much plasteel, I ended up crafting a couple sets of plate armor (not too far off of power armor, much more HP, probably not worth it).
I scavenged 2x mortars from a siege, and eventually built 3x more - even if they're inaccurate, I found just landing a couple shots can make a huge difference, and a full volley can immediately end sieges. Over the course of the game, I had a few ships (first one being relatively early, the centipede was difficult but not insurmountable) and several infestation events (one especially tough, tried to leave a sealed off area alone, but colder temperatures caused the swarm to try to break through every night in the winter; managed to handle it with a combination of IEDs as they broke through & a defensive melee position).
Over time I upgraded security, especially as I started to see more mech raids; I expanded the trap hallway a bit, and dug out the hill a bit to make room for a (sort-of?) kill box area, really just a corner turn into 3 (eventually 6) mini-turrets. I later built 2x slug turrets further south, so they'd be in range just before the corner turn - I found them to be very effective, especially against centipedes. I prioritized Charge Lances and melee weapons - I found melee to be very effective, especially against groups of melee pawns or large numbers of insects. As I reached the point where I was able to get all of my combatants into power armor, I figured it made more sense to build the ship and escape, as I was running out of things to fortify/improve.
The ship sequence was fun/challenging, but not too bad at all - I had saved up 2x orbitals, along with several shock lances for doomsday rockets (picked up while caravaning). I lost one of my recruited pawns during a large mech raid, but it was my own carelessness - I ran him out to a small cover area to throw an EMP grenade, rather than having him use a safer autodoor. I had one close call with mech drop pods, but it was more so because I didn't realize chem fuel could explode when hit by stray shots - I had about 500 in my main stash area, where most of them had dropped. Ended up having to rescue one of them, but I luckily had an uninstalled firefoam in the stash area.
I like many of the changes you've made, and appreciate what you're doing here with feedback. I also appreciate your stance on e.g. creating drama/how the game should be played. It's difficult to balance, but I think the most memorable gameplay moments are the harrowing, intense micro situations. If everything was predictable/doable without making "mistakes," it seems like it would kind of defeat the purpose of the game. I remember older versions feeling a bit more forgiving, and I'd often feel like the game became a bit of a slog.
Feedback/Suggestions:
-Variety begins to feel limited over time, but to be fair game length is still great by comparison to other titles; it might just be a function of the long play time. Perhaps more small and/or relatively meaningless events could help this? I'm not sure, as it seemed to be mostly down to raids starting to become formulaic
-I think more faction/settlement interaction could help "flesh out" the world quite a bit. As is, a caravan trip is often worthwhile, but feels like typically "occupy 1-3 pawns for a few days, return with x silver in goods." There isn't much reason to e.g. interact with pirate bases, or create a second colony (other than as a temporary camp for e.g. hunting/medical, which isn't very intuitive). Maybe travel events, similar to FTL? Especially if they incentivize changing your travel plans and/or force you to reroute.
-The ambushes from manhunter animals felt a little silly. Following the last suggestion, maybe it could be repackaged as an event involving the item that berserks all animals? Maybe increase player agency by making it an event that you can choose to dodge: i.e., notification on map of artifact discovered, you can try to recover it, chance of activating it instead. Could really add flavor to the world with e.g., finding it in a "destroyed/overrun base" of sorts.
-Perhaps different end-game goals could help other play styles feel "worthwhile"? I know many people don't like ending the game with the ship - without another goal, it seems inevitable that you end up hoarding resources, which attracts larger and larger raids. Perhaps something involving other hostile factions?
-Regarding enemy variety, I think it would be neat to have a few other rare enemy types that "break the rules," in the same way that a Thrumbo isn't comparable to an average animal. Maybe a flying mechanoid, or "stealth"/invisible raiders?
-I wonder if sometimes we have too much information on enemy pawns. I think many of the "cheese" tactics and/or formulaic approaches to handling raids/sieges/etc. would be way more difficult to use if you couldn't actually see what a pawn was doing (e.g., "attacking plasteel miniturret"), or even having complete map vision. That would be a huge change though, not sure how you'd balance it.
-Maybe you could encourage more pawn combat with small/realistic changes to behavior? It always seemed silly to me that prone positions aren't a thing - they'd fit right into the melee vs. ranged dynamic with a delay to go from prone -> standing, and give a useful buff to defending pawns. It'd be nice to see raiders use this as well, especially in sieges (or when attacking raider outposts - the way they blindly charge you right now feels a little exploitable).
[attachment deleted due to age]
I come bearing data from builds of yore!
Cassandra, Rough, No Mods
20/40 Boreal Forest, Flat
~ Commitment mode (self imposed, so I can make separate saves for each new build)
I have played at least 14 hours in the past 2-3 days. (although my play on build 1980 isn't represented in the data below)
First, my Graphs:
Wealth: https://i.imgur.com/ZjimjZT.png (https://i.imgur.com/ZjimjZT.png)
Population: https://i.imgur.com/3Iy6QdU.png (https://i.imgur.com/3Iy6QdU.png)
Mood: https://i.imgur.com/lRl47Mr.png (https://i.imgur.com/lRl47Mr.png)
Debug: https://i.imgur.com/thfebqc.png (https://i.imgur.com/thfebqc.png)
I have enjoyed the new traps. I thought they were a bit expensive at 40 materials, but when they reduced to 35, I was happier. I find them helpful, but not (at least the way I use them) huge game-changers. IEDs on the other hand are huge game changers for me, especially in certain mass-raids like those chasing a new colonist. However, both traps and IEDs are only useful on certain opponents. Mechanoids mostly ignore my IEDs, Scythers zipping past them too fast to be caught in the explosion, or Centipedes tanking them to little effect. Scythers are reasonably affected by the traps though, so there is still some use there. Here is my trap setup, with traps and a few IEDs selected to highlight them:
My main killbox: https://i.imgur.com/8nDq6SL.png (https://i.imgur.com/8nDq6SL.png)
Smaller alternate killbox: https://i.imgur.com/pfTl284.png (https://i.imgur.com/pfTl284.png)
I like all the new art that I've seen, and I would throw my vote behind keeping/bringing back the new art for components. I have not yet seen any art I dislike.
I am reasonably happy with the spawn rate of trees and the availability of wood, and I have never bothered to sow trees. I did research tree sowing, but haven't needed to plant one yet. I selectively choose which trees to chop though, only targeting trees with 90% growth or higher.
I'm not very good at taking extensive notes on events throughout my gameplay, so I'm sorry I don't have a play-by-play story for my graphs. Here is an overview picture of my base:
Base Overview: https://i.imgur.com/brYyRXE.png (https://i.imgur.com/brYyRXE.png)
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 31, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
1. Button to return to home base instead of needlessly looking for them when you're looking at the world map.
Click "World Map" again :) Click it twice to return to map mode centered on your colony.
Quote from: Ser Kitteh on July 31, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
4. Destroying a raider outpost has a 3 day limit. Destroying a raider base has a 1 day limit. I think it would be better to just remove them entirely. I beat them, and if I want to spend a season hauling all that steel I should be able to.
5. We can forage food but why not set up a temporary camp and hunt some wild animals? It would actually be very useful for tribals. It's also historically accurate, going away for a week to hunt for food.
This. We shouldn't be just driven out of the temporary map after some time. We cleared it, so we should be able to gather stuff, patch our people up and then leave when we finish. Not when this arbitrary time is up.
Also - a big + for temporary camps being a thing. The mod that adds it is one of the most popular mods. Surely there is a place for such a good addition in core game.
Quote from: Skibob` on July 30, 2018, 08:43:49 PM
... I spot a giant wave of every single squirrel, raccoon, rat, boomrat, and boomalope on the map converging on that exact spot. They all enter the killzone, run through the traps and trigger them.
My first thought was manhunter pack or that one psychic effect causing everything to go manhunter. I hadn't gotten an alert...
This is normal. I see there is snow in your screenshot there. All the viable/devourable grass on the map has been eaten or covered in snow, except inside your walls. Therefor, all the animals on the map are pathing toward the last remaining food on the map. That may or may not be your crops and/or your harvested food laying on the ground.
One cuestion:
does anyone know when the version 1.0 will be stable?
Apparently settling too close to a nearby settlement strains relationships with their faction. This may explain why I keep getting faction relation drops without any interaction with them. I did not see any indication of this on the map when I was choosing a site; perhaps I missed something? Or if this does not exist perhaps it could be added?
Quote from: Vito1189 on July 31, 2018, 12:25:30 PM
One cuestion:
does anyone know when the version 1.0 will be stable?
No one knows this. It's done when it's done.
Quote from: giltirn on July 31, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
Apparently settling too close to a nearby settlement strains relationships with their faction. This may explain why I keep getting faction relation drops without any interaction with them. I did not see any indication of this on the map when I was choosing a site; perhaps I missed something? Or if this does not exist perhaps it could be added?
It exists and you should get a message when you try to settle too close to a faction base. At least in the start, I'm not sure if you also get the message when doing that later with caravaning somewhere and trying to settle. You lose more relation the closer you settle to a base until 5 tiles away I think.
You also lose relation with the rough factions on a fixed interval. There now is a nice and a rough outlander and tribal npc faction each. You see them on the faction tab as "rough outlander union" and "savage tribe".
Some thoughts:
1. Wealth/Raid mechanics are borderline "newbie traps" which create both "economic" interruptions in play and "story" interruptions in play, as well as serious messes in End-Game.
2. If Wealth/Raid mechanics continue to be obscure it really doesn't help our ability to test them and give feedback, and the game needs it.
3. The UI doesn't make it easy for us (players) to see where wealth is really coming from, which is bad for both feedback and newer/casual players ability to make smart decisions/avoid the traps.
4. A large amount of the feedback situations where players are "upset" with their experiences (RNG killed me and it wasn't my fault, etc) can be traced back to Wealth/Raid mechanics.
Please consider giving us the tools to help you "smooth" out this part of the game before final release - this is not something that should be left to modders after release.
As always, thanks for the game and Cheers.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on July 31, 2018, 07:32:40 AM
-One last consideration: there's often a critical period after a battle, where the colony is scrambling to heal the wounded, and Mental Breaks occur very frequently; it's possible to have one or more pawns who are giving or receiving critical medical care to experience breaks, because they're a) in pain, b) tired, c) hungry, and d) recreation deprived.
I think that a temporary mood buff for winning the battle is in order. Something along the lines of "We drove them off! +10 for 24 hours". I can attest that most after-battle 24 hour periods have been a genuine shit-parade, and I don't believe it's through bad micro or bad triaging decisions. Something along these lines would prevent a second raid that comes right on the heels of the first raid from turning into a catastrophe. Just a thought...
Seconded. It makes a huge amount of sense that winning a battle would make people feel good, and yet what often happens is that they all have mental breaks and start beating each other up, especially if they're on caravan missions.
Maybe there should be helpful popup reminding you to burn all the unused weapons the outlanders/pirates dropped after a raid.
Thats where I assume the spikes are coming from (e.g. 36k wealth spike, about 20% wealth increase after 72v16 pirate refugee chase), since tainted armor takes massive market value hit.
If only dead guys armor didn't also typically have bad HP/mediocre quality, bloodlust would be neat wealth controller. Could force prisoners to wear strong power armor then starve them to death. This avoids the durability damage typically associated with obtaining dead mans stuff..more things to test.
Fastest method I have found to deal with raid wealth spikes is to send one pawn on a caravan one hex away, load everything from the raid (seeing as you can select it all anywhere on the map) and go into the item menu and drop it all, then come back.
Assuming you have enough muffalo to load them, you can do the corpses themselves that way.
One way to "mitigate" this would be to "freeze" wealth in terms of raid generation for long enough to sort it ... and maybe couple this grace period with a moral buff for "not being dead" to smooth some of the moral issues over during the same period.
Also, while tainted armor takes a massive hit in SALE value, I do not think it takes a hit at all to wealth value.
Checked, it is worth 10% for both sale and wealth.
Looking at that, it makes me want to wear tainted armor as much as possible, because a 90% drop in wealth for armor over 10-20 pawns certainly gives you a large wealth budge to raise their moral by 4 points. Me thinks tainted is a bad mechanic.
Frankly, having to make decisions based on things like a "wealth budget" bothers me a lot.
While I don't think it is completely avoidable inside the primary game design, I think efforts to minimize it are key. Lessons learned like "its key to sell off most quest rewards since they are just wealth bloat", "having vegetables for the winter can cause raid spikes, so mainly store big animal corpses", "raids leaving weapons can kill you, so destroy them with caravans asap", "non-combat micro is mostly about keeping supplies minimal, because stock is dangerous", etc are not good for story or fun or setting.
Maybe it would help to make a list of all the counter-intuitive/time wasting things wealth mechanics make optimal.
i got a sapper raid just today, called an Ally faction in to deal with it, & instead of dropping in my base or edge of map in group, they ended up sending 1 by 1 scattered all around the map then run straight into the raiders then died -_- no enemy downed while the whole Ally team killed, which in turn cause a bunch of -relation due to deaths :|
what i needed was some more guns behind the walls+sandbags set beforehand, not a suicidal bunch like those manhunter packs, & well, i dnt have actually called them if all of my traps weren't already used in previous raid
Quote from: alxddd on July 30, 2018, 09:40:21 PM
Quote from: Nynzal on July 30, 2018, 01:50:05 PM
Quote from: Orionreach on July 30, 2018, 12:55:59 PM
I see that you've returned to the original component / advanced component models! Personally I'm really happy about that. Speaking of, after playing the game a bit with the new meat models, something just feels off about them still. I honestly think they should return to their original design and colors.. Don't fix what isn't broken right?
I strongly disagree, the overall direction of the art changes are great: Stronger colors, much clearer what that stuff is supposed to be. The old components are not as good, the new ones were my favorite art change so far. Although the meat is not as great as the components, it goes in the same direction, only the color is not as strong.
I agree with this guy on the new art direction. Extremely disappointed to see the devs change it back. Loved the new components, silver and meat. #bringbackredcubes
The new graphics are exciting and make more sense, to me (especially, the components!) Perhaps, some players are simply resisting change? Please, consider following through with new art. :)
Just got a Pirate Merchant group with no "leader" (dude with the question mark) to trade with.
Also, a "Merchant Gathering Spot" would be great for stopping them hanging out in the middle of the river.. which also happens to be my Raid funnel... (slow moving targets coming straight at you.. can't beat that)
EDIT: just kidding... leader dude had a gimp leg and took 5 minutes to walk across the map.. keeping post for MGS request ;) ^
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/weatherdown/Pirate%20Merchants%20no%20leader_zpspfymjwew.png)
Storyteller: Randy, rich explorer
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): ~140 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10
Complete mod list: vanilla
Thought I'd goof around and play sea ice with a cannibal lesbian. Again, even easier than the "harder" map I played, tundra, due to raid sizes, except in the beginning (plague with medical 2, nearly passed out but glitter medicine helped, also a raider with go-juice that I made run into a deadfall). This time around I figure I'd play it safe and see how metagaming goes with wealth/adaptation. Started out with a cannibal, recruited a non-cannibal around a year in as I accumulated food, repeatedly replaced (and ate :3) the non-cannibal with better versions, though my assitant still sucks. Mostly the assistant just repeatedly goes insane while he butchers humans for my main guy, and smelts cargo pod slag when he's sane.
Not used to sea Ice so I made a bunch of mistakes. Apparently the wiki's outdated, and moisture pumps do not turn the shallow water into gravel :( Also, apparently no deep drilling resources :o Turned on the scanner and was pretty disappointed lol.
I started with 0 intellectual, so I'm now headed towards year 3 with only basic techs. In the end it doesn't matter much. Your enemies are limited by your wealth and pawns, so I just stayed low on both, and never had anything bigger than 5 pawns so far.
Sea ice is kinda boring though. I'm finally getting enough steel hoarded up that I can get a decent hydroponics going, so it can become a normal booming fort soon, though.
Although to be honest I'm not sure what additional pawns would even be doing. No drilling, limited farming, no stone. Picking their nose I guess? I suppose once I get enough chemfuel I can do some LRMS sites.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Copperwire on July 31, 2018, 01:23:39 PM
Fastest method I have found to deal with raid wealth spikes is to send one pawn on a caravan one hex away, load everything from the raid (seeing as you can select it all anywhere on the map) and go into the item menu and drop it all, then come back.
Assuming you have enough muffalo to load them, you can do the corpses themselves that way.
One way to "mitigate" this would be to "freeze" wealth in terms of raid generation for long enough to sort it ... and maybe couple this grace period with a moral buff for "not being dead" to smooth some of the moral issues over during the same period.
Also, while tainted armor takes a massive hit in SALE value, I do not think it takes a hit at all to wealth value.
Checked, it is worth 10% for both sale and wealth.
Looking at that, it makes me want to wear tainted armor as much as possible, because a 90% drop in wealth for armor over 10-20 pawns certainly gives you a large wealth budge to raise their moral by 4 points. Me thinks tainted is a bad mechanic.
Frankly, having to make decisions based on things like a "wealth budget" bothers me a lot.
While I don't think it is completely avoidable inside the primary game design, I think efforts to minimize it are key. Lessons learned like "its key to sell off most quest rewards since they are just wealth bloat", "having vegetables for the winter can cause raid spikes, so mainly store big animal corpses", "raids leaving weapons can kill you, so destroy them with caravans asap", "non-combat micro is mostly about keeping supplies minimal, because stock is dangerous", etc are not good for story or fun or setting.
Maybe it would help to make a list of all the counter-intuitive/time wasting things wealth mechanics make optimal.
now that new armor system practically made every duster except hyper/thrumbo irrelevant (cracks me up seeing streamers obssess over flak jacket, pants, and dstrand when it is all useless against actual threats), you only need to take dead man mood hit on 2 armor pieces now. Though flak vest is cheap enough that it probably isn't worth doing this with. But for good power armor its more attractive.
I noticed that corpses have actual monetary value now if you looks at drop pod mode. Wonder how this is computed and whether it now affects raid scaling.
Corpses are still better due to space efficiency.
Don't forget item HP status also affects market value.
I finished my cassandra rough game, I didn't ship escape but I built my Grand uranium centrepiece for my tomb which was my personal objective.
Autocannons are really terrifying, they one-shot my own "best" colonist. (The only colonist I had who had construction over 3. He thankfully finshed a jade royal bed just before the infestation that killed him).
I'll know better for next time not to put auto-cannons in 'general' turret places, instead focus their fire away from where pawns may be standing. :o
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 29, 2018, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 28, 2018, 12:15:26 PM
Randy rough tribal
Temperate 50/60 small hills
Permadeath
First summer, I restarted when I got errors on my last save
5 to 10 hours played
Hugs lib, skylights, memorable aurora, Infestation disabled
I took my first gourmand on a start. The first day they went into a food binge and ate all my pemmican. Luckily about the 4th day a cargo pod of 40 nutrient paste fell from the sky. My tribals were less happy than I was lol.
My previous playthrough I didn't have predators, so I was happy to see them this time. On a tribal they help you get food and leather you need. I have noticed that the leather drop decreased.
Tribal cooks will take meals from restricted stacks if they placed it in there. I was trying to get them to focus on the paste meals by restricting the simple meals, but the cooks would grab from the restricted stack having just placed it.
Food poisoning is definitely reduced. I didn't get a metal floor this time, so I built on rough sandstone. I can't seem to find any dirt on it, the option never appears to clean. It has to be dirty by now, it has been days. But I don't get dirty kitchen food poisoning, just incompetent cook.
Now headed into second spring. I now have about 10 people, mostly from chased refugees. Two recruited pirates. I still get crashed escape pods, but they are always for the rough outlander faction. They aren't interesting enough to keep, and my colony is doing ok anyway. Released for faction gain. I haven't got electricity yet, so I don't want to grow too expansively.
In the relations tab it states that if the faction goodwill falls below 0, the rough outlanders will become hostile. However, it naturally fell to -4 and they remained neutral.
I got my first 1.0 fallout. I was pretty worried, but it ended after only about 10 days. I had a colony full of cats that randomly joined. I kept them because I was hoping a bulk trader would come buy them. I slaughtered them for food. One had Initial fallout, and it didn't instantly rot, so the rot must be a higher level of fallout. The animals that died in the fields later all rotted immediately. I tried allowing my growers to only work uncovered in the fields, but the plants died faster than they grew even in rich soil. So, I set my colonists to making blocks and building a greenhouse (skylights mod). Since the fallout only lasted 10 days, I never needed it. The tribals just finished building it and are still installing the glass, but the fallout has ended. I thought I got lucky because I got a bulk goods trader. I had tons of leftover leather left around from a year of no bulk traders, and I bought them out of stock. I got the notice they were leaving just as I got the notice the fallout was settling.
My version of randy seems to enjoy paste meals. I got 24 that dropped during the fallout. I did what I did before and restricted the better stuff to make them eat them before they went bad. I am amazed at the lengths colonists will go to avoid them. The only food they prefer less is unsafe raw food or veggies. The cooks did the thing again where they grabbed from restricted piles after just placing a meal. Everyone else literally got to the point where their food bar was almost in the starving range before they would even consider grabbing the paste meals. They definitely refused to carry extra of them in inventory. It was like watching stubborn children trying to not eat their vegetables, lol.
Rough stone is a great thing to build your kitchen on top of. As I noted above, it never gets dirty. With their fallout free time, my builders spent time smoothing my kitchen, and now I have to keep it clean. bummer.
headed into second fall.
I have 12 colonists, with feeb as a chased refugee. The rough outlanders falling in escape pods are keeping the relations positive. Greenhouse is complete though this map is warm enough that it only protects me from cold snaps. I have a water mill and I am working on the next steps after the electricity research. It would probably be faster if I built a second bench.
I cracked open the ancient danger. I built a trap tunnel. Inside was two hives. That was unexpected, but my tribals dealt with it well. Inside the crypt was 6 crypto caskets. The guys in the caskets were dead or disabled. Also got a bionic spine, luci, and a psychic lance. I rescued the 3 disabled, and two joined. Not the two I wanted of course, but now I have 14 tribals.
This must have pushed me past a wealth threshold. That night, a few hours later, a three way pirate raid. Luckily one was only a molotov guy, and he brilliantly walked up and joined one of the other two. I repelled them, because thankfully pirates are poorly equipped. A few days later, poison ship with my first mechanoids. It went well but I misjudged and the scythers cut the arm off my tailor. A few days after that, two scythers in drop pods. The box only pointed out one, the other landed in a different spot on the map. But I knew it was there somewhere because the music didn't stop.
I am working on an incapacitated refugee. .75 days away with a relationship. Mostly I am going because there are 3 turrets only and I want to see if I can steal them. I can't recall how heavy they are in 1.0.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough/tribal start
Biome/hilliness: Temperate/flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 133 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10 ish
Complete mod list: No mods
I started playing this game 3 or 4 updates ago
Bug?: I decided to rescue instead of capture a crash survivor. He got pretty heavily wounded and has been in my hospital for quite some time, but nobody is feeding him. I was able to feed him manually once (don't remember if it was before or after todays update, sorry), but now when having a colonist selected I don't get the option to feed him anymore and he is severely malnutritioned.
Perhaps something broke last update, or am I missing something here? In his guest tab 'gets food' is checked.
edit: added tribal start to info.
Edit 2: now I can feed him again after a night has passed. Is something off on his getting food schedule?
The incendiary shell new icon looks very similar to wood icon.
I'm running two simultaneous big colonies, modded now, in temperate forest and temperate swamp, largest default map 325x325 i think it was. No lag even in the third speed. The 64 bit adition is truly the game changer of 1.0.
It would be nice to have the main menu display whether the 32 bit or 64 bit version has been launched, because it is not always clear, like when the game autorestarts after changing mods, or when launching it from the steam tray icon.
Ok I finished the game I had previously posted an intermediate report on. last time I posted was just when traps became single-use.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Arid, flat
Commitment mode: (yes/no) Yes
Current colony age (days): about 250 (just finished reactor startup, ready to launch)
Hours played in the last 2 days: about 8
Complete mod list: none
Feedback:
- Sniper turrets are very useful. They can take out a lot. Autocannon turrets felt weaker in comparison, but I was maybe lucky with a big uranium vein, never had any shortages. They were definitely a key to my defense, as were plasteel mini turrets. You can see in the pic that I avoided any kind of killbox. My defenses were mostly based on using very long range weapons.
- Enemies go for turrets and will try to take them out even when under fire by snipers. That was basically my strategy - let the final waves hit the turrets first and snipe from afar. I had a lot of mechanoid attacks for which this worked pretty well. I did not micromanage combat very well, I just had a big blob of people that I kept out of range.
- Traps are... meh. I kept some within my base hallways as a last measure but 40 blocks was too much to bother with them outside my building. I did spread IEDs quite liberally, so far apart that they don't trigger each other. In smaller raids they may not trigger, but big groups will reliably hit one or 2 and then the blast hits 4 or 5 opponents, which is nice. Not overpowered but nice. they don't really take out enemies by themselves but it's good to soften them up.
- I previously said that the final waves during reactor startup were almost too easy (about 3 weeks ago in another feedback). That is no longer the case... It was certainly rough for me, and I feel quite lucky that I got through. I had a lot of mechanoid waves which were relatively easy unless I got careless. Pirate waves were softer, but more chaotic and diverse, which was interesting and had quite a bit of danger for chaos to make me slip up - usually by catching a rocket on my fire group. Mechanoids are just not very varied as opponents. At the end I had a series of 3 raids of mechs dropping right on top of me, that was tough.
- Game was very fun and enjoyable otherwise! There's always more that could be done, but seriously, just finish the release and then make an expansion pack in a year or so. I and many others will gladly pay and you deserve to make some more money off of the many people who are enjoying the game for a long time now. Release itself is coming along nicely, I feel balance is getting there for sure.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on July 31, 2018, 03:08:27 PM
Storyteller: Randy, rich explorer
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): ~140 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10
Complete mod list: vanilla
To get any real challenge from sea ice you have to increase your wealth and colonists. Solo games are not a viable gamemode anymore. When picking a colonists for sea ice you really have to have one with 5 construction, good plants and intelligence. Otherwise you don't get your colony off the ground. I'm 60 days in on my sea ice playthrough and I have 6 hydroponics bays, 4 turbines, 2 colonists, and 2 bedrooms built.
Greep is right though, there is very little challenge in this game if you keep your wealth and pawn count down, even on merciless. I remember in A17 I used to get mechanoids with just 1 pawn. In my 3 games so far I've yet to see a mechanoid event.
Don't have any decent colony stories on the new build(s) yet, but while graphics are being reworked, I thought I'd mention something.
A group of travelers left a Shield Belt at my newly-founded colony, and a while later, my Mom walked by and asked why I had a bra in storage.
Mortification aside ("I swear, I don't have any of those mods!"), what are the two circles on the Shield Belt supposed to represent? Are they a power pack? Some kind of dish/emitter? An awkwardly-large buckle? Because now I can't unsee the Shield Belt as a bra.
Quote from: Dargaron on July 31, 2018, 06:05:32 PM
Because now I can't unsee the Shield Belt as a bra.
Well shit. Thanks...
Always felt like those is were the energy is stored and the shield is generated. You know, a bit like a tool belt or the gadget belts of some characters like... BATMAN.
Very specific feedback on the man in black. I started a naked brutality run on cassandra merciless, and I had 2 escape pods come down before the first raid. Still I got my butt kicked by the first lonely raider, and my lone guy walked around bleeding in a daze. He passed out after patching himself up mostly and I thought I had it under control... Then the man in black came and the recovery became trivial. That kind of killed my interest since it felt like... mercy? Not what I wanted from merciless...
I would suggest the man in black to be disabled for rough and higher. If you go for that, then you should know what you're getting into.
Quote from: Bowman on July 31, 2018, 06:39:11 PM
Very specific feedback on the man in black. I started a naked brutality run on cassandra merciless, and I had 2 escape pods come down before the first raid. Still I got my butt kicked by the first lonely raider, and my lone guy walked around bleeding in a daze. He passed out after patching himself up mostly and I thought I had it under control... Then the man in black came and the recovery became trivial. That kind of killed my interest since it felt like... mercy? Not what I wanted from merciless...
I would suggest the man in black to be disabled for rough and higher. If you go for that, then you should know what you're getting into.
+1 completely agree. rough and above should be a challenge. The man in black though a cool idea is just a bit story breaking for me. the struggle in the game is the fun for me, this person turning up feels a bit out of place. I/We crash land or similar on a planet, things go fine or badly is the story. having a fairy god mother turn up just when things are bad seems out of place. some stranger just wanders by at that point, and on a hostile planet just wants to help because why not.
this just seems to be a pandering to the people that want the game to have training wheels so they cant go wrong. like having the guard rails up at bowling.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Tundra, flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 16 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 2
No mod.
Just started naked brutallity scenario. So I opened the ancient danger supposedly to get some protection from bugs.
First few days I've been struggling with food since my guy has very low on cooking and plant skill. Got poisoned by berry several times, apparently he picked a dangerous one.
Got "Wild woman wanders in" event. But I ignored it because the handling skill was below the requirement.
Wanderer joined, nice. But he can't do violence stuff, although he was good at cooking. Finally, some real food.
The hives getting bigger and bigger. That wild woman looks happy with those bugs around, she ate their jellies, and sleep with them.
Fall begun, and the world getting colder. I noticed that wild woman downed due to hypotermia. So I rescued her to my humble shed. Moment later she woke up and joined the colony! I pathced her up, and started to make additional bedroom.
Raid arrived. One guy. But he decided to attack those bugs. No hope. But those bugs now turned their anger to colony. They wiped out everything. All downed.
Then got stranger in black. However, I just banished him, because he would've be like "Wait, an army of bugs? I'm outa here".
The End.
Yep, insect behavior is still as broken as ever. Something hurts them - they go for you.
Tynan any plans to isolate colony features to specific colonies? Ideally Id like it so not all of my colonists in separate colonies suffer negative mood when one colony harvests a prisoner but I can see why you would as it might be too easy to game the system. But if thats not in the cards is there a way to prevent actions of other colonists from appearing in artwork. Slightly immersion breaking that they would know the intimate details of Kimmy and her rabbit from half the world away. Maybe an action for pawns to 'move in/move' as an official colonist to that settlement to prevent that at least?
Well sea ice is starting to ramp up a lot since I let my wealth get a bit too high. But man these sniper turrets just wreck everything in an open fort. Best uranium meteor ever. Didn't even get in range of the second one.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Corpses, including humans, and mechanoids, now have a wealth value. You can't see it in the info tab for an item, but you can see it in pods and caravan.
You can't sell them to towns or traders. Not sure which of the "no list" updates that was but .... it happened.
Steel slag still has no value.
It is impacting colony wealth - checked a few old saves.
Example:
Deer Corpse: (135s)
Butchered:
30 Plain Leather (63s)
79 Meat (158s)
_______________
total components (221s)
My colonist died from heatstroke because I couldn't get AC set up.
Quote from: shentino on July 31, 2018, 11:08:55 PM
My colonist died from heatstroke because I couldn't get AC set up.
passive coolers don't require research now so unless you're playing on sea ice or extreme desert that was kinda your fault then
Items, including corpses, show up in caravan/pod loading view if they are either in your home zone or in a stockpile.
Items seem to show up in colony wealth if they are on the map and not in the inventory of a living NPC.
Unless I am missing something, that means pod dropped items should become wealth as soon as they land. Anyone tested that? If so, the jade that drops that I have been ignoring because I have no use for it and it just takes up storage and worker time to go get it is actually a harmful blob of wealth I should be disarming.
Now that corpses have wealth value, that may mean that the animals killed but not fully consumed by predators/etc show up as wealth, at least until they rot (rotten corpses do not have wealth value).
Quote from: Copperwire on July 31, 2018, 09:48:44 PM
Corpses, including humans, and mechanoids, now have a wealth value. You can't see it in the info tab for an item, but you can see it in pods and caravan.
You can't sell them to towns or traders. Not sure which of the "no list" updates that was but .... it happened.
Steel slag still has no value.
It is impacting colony wealth - checked a few old saves.
Example:
Deer Corpse: (135s)
Butchered:
30 Plain Leather (63s)
79 Meat (158s)
_______________
total components (221s)
good info to know :)
Hmm, that could be annoying on cold climates where humans generally won't rot. Mass human incineration required. :-\
Edit: One downside to open forts: Turrets just cannot deal with small targets, even sniper turrets. A close call vs 20 manhunting snowbunnies. I would absolutely wreck 6 thrumbos tho lol.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Human corpse is only 165, its not so bad. I still think the mood hits from the corpses are more pressing problem.
That is why I fined the last tribal sapper group 2 lungs for littering.
Quote from: Copperwire on July 31, 2018, 09:48:44 PM
Corpses, including humans, and mechanoids, now have a wealth value. You can't see it in the info tab for an item, but you can see it in pods and caravan.
...
It is impacting colony wealth - checked a few old saves.
...
Do corpses in graves count?
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Boreal tundra, large hills
Commitment mode: (yes/no): No
Current colony age (days): end of winter of second year
Hours played in the last 2 days: no idea
Complete mod list: none
I'd like to complain again about map rescue quests involving family members. This has happened both times I have been offered a rescue quest in my current game, and it basically means we are *forced* to risk our necks in a difficult world event to rescue a possibly useless pawn, often when another colonist is far from desired, or else incur a mood penalty that lasts almost half a game year. The first of these popped up while I was trying desperately to weather both toxic fallout and a volcanic winter at the same time! Please please, either prevent this quest from spawning family members or heavily reduce the timespan of the mood debuff. As it stands I'm going to edit the save file to remove the debuff as I just can't be bothered to go through this again. :/
A note on sea ice: Built a ton of solar generators, and am finding out that apparently the sun just doesn't come up much in winter, kinda making solar generators pointless on sea ice. There was no easy explanation for why my power outages were getting worse and I ended up building like 10 solar generators only to figure out the issue. It would be nice if this was made clearer somehow.
I've noticed that there are shortcuts for building dressers and end tables when a bed is selected and a shortcut for tool cabinets as well, but no shortcut for transport pod when pod launcher is selected. It'd be logical to have this as well, I needed it much more often than other shortcuts.
Randy/Merciless/Naked Brutality (Tribal Start Scenario)/ Temperate Small Hills
My starting colonist got muscle parasites on like day 3, and shortly after got food poisoning, which rendered her incapacitated on the kitchen floor. Immediately the 'stranger in black' showed up, which felt a little like cheating? I like the concept of the 'the stranger' but not so early in the Naked Brutality scenario. If you play unsafe and get mauled by a megasloth then you should lose.
Worse yet I can imagine a scenario where you incapacitate yourself on purpose to cheat out an early stranger (which in my limited experience tend to have good stats, as well as gear).
Storyteller: Cassandra, changed to Phoebe
Difficulty: the easiest :)
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, flat
Commitment mode: (yes/no): Yes
Current colony age (days): cca 150 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 6+
Complete mod list: none
Tried naked brutality, easiest setting (I'm a coward who reacts poorly to shocking events).
- Went an entire year without wanderer joins, escape pod, refugee chased or wild man events. Got only prisoner rescue quests, which was a no for a naked guy with a bow (tried growing cotton, got blight on 75% grown...). That's the reason I switched to Phoebe.
- First escape pod - a mediocre pawn to be captured, meaning - a resource hog. Left him to die. Second one came soon, good overall skills, but non-violent. So I had a non violent pawn and a naked one with a bow (second attempt to grow cotton was destroyed by cold snap. Hunting wasn't an option.)
- Refugee chased. Accept. Non-violent pawn again. The naked pawn, with shooting skills 0, getting mauled by the chaser with a knife. Suddenly, a man in... nope! A mad wild boar appears, joins on the mauling. Rage-quit via Alt+F4 (see the comment earlier on reacting poorly).
- A couple of pawns latter, another refugee chased. I accept. The pawn, instead of running straight to the base decides to take a walk (seriously, it said: "Going for a walk"), in the opposite direction of the base. Naturally, dies by the hand of the chaser with machine pistol.
- Designated two muffalos to be tamed. Both went to revenge rampage, downing 2 of my pawns, one of which died (is this new? I've been taming muffalos in all the builds, never had it so harsh).
- Wild boar designated to be hunted killed another pawn. Is this because of the naked brutality scenario or? It seems I cannot hunt anything but hares until I make flak armor. Haven't had this issue before.
- On hunting: would it be possible to designate which hunter hunts what? F.e. a guy with a pump shotgun should take on a boar, while a guy with a bow in cloth apparel should be hunting rabbits.
- Why was medicine stack size changed to 25?
- Social fighting is getting bloodier each time. They started ripping out body parts.
That's it for now. Perhaps I'll up the difficulty a bit today.
Quote from: Sirinox on August 01, 2018, 01:08:42 AM
I've noticed that there are shortcuts for building dressers and end tables when a bed is selected and a shortcut for tool cabinets as well, but no shortcut for transport pod when pod launcher is selected. It'd be logical to have this as well, I needed it much more often than other shortcuts.
I hate to both "there's a mod for that" AND plug my mod, but I literally just uploaded it to Steam so check out https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=42988
I found that some starts are a lot easier now! Step 1: pick all wimps. Step 2: punch animals until all downed. Step 3: enjoy free person in black. I think this is a great way to make NB less RNG based.
I have a colonist that refuses to carry more than 75 even though her carrying capacity is 108 (manipulation is 144% from trauma savant).
Picture attached
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Arid shrubland/Flat
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): 262
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10-15hs
Complete mod list: none
Crashlander blind start, I only hit random until got arid shrubland cuz I wanted. No river but growing all year around so that helps in the food department. I have been playing this colony for a while so I don't remember much about the beginning, only that my best constructor had 1 skill and no passion, so it was a slow start. Now the colony has ~230k wealth and 14 pawns, she's still my best constructor (now a go-juice addict) with 15 points but other pawns with passions are caching up, the other 2 of my original pawns are dead, one of a heart attack cuz he was old and the other got grenaded to bits in a raid. About the dificulty I don't find myself struggling too much, although the raids of late have become more interesting I'm still repelling them without many injuries. The 2 most hairy moments were destroying an early hive that I couldn't deal with immediately (ended with some downed pawns) and a grenade-only raid where I got sloppy and one pawn died as mentioned. The raids of the chased refugee event are indeed scary, so far I only accepted them when the refugee has some relation with a colonist, although in retrospect I would say their strength wasn't unreasonable since in all cases I got a pawn that could do something and I could repel them without anyone going down.
I don't find caravaning to be risky at all, so I'm doing it often for trade stuff, ambushes are weak, too weak perhaps since is usually just one or two melee raiders (or manhunters) that go down without me doing much. The "surprise" ambushes that pop-up at the incapacitated refugee or item stash quests are a different thing but usually I'm able to flee if needed.
The most aggravating issue I have with the game so far is dealing with pod launchers, the loading process is so bad that I try to avoid pods unless is something that I can load quickly, like a single pawn with food. Another poster went into detail about this so I'm not going to rehash it.
Other poster talked about pawns not following drug policies very well. Indeed, either they don't (or take too long) to take their drugs for a given mood level, or straight not follow their policies. I have a bunch of pawns scheduled to take penox every 5 days, one got the plague while under the effects of penoxycyline, which means she failed to timely take a pill at some point. When I looked at it more closely I had two pawns that have penox scheduled but didn't had the "penoxycyline" health status, one took penox the next day, while the other didn't for several days, despite having one in his inventory, he only did after I changed the drug policy and assigned it again. Those 3 pawns returned from a caravan recently so I bet there's a bug going on there.
Other notes:
- Regarding drug policies, I really wish to have to option for carry some in their inventory but not to consume it on their own, such as the slider having a 'never' position and actually picking it up, because as far as I can see, they only pick the stuff when they go to consume it.
- I would like to see the actual coverage of firefoam poppers and turrets, you see the range but it doesn't account walls. Like grenades do when you use them (their damage radius).
- A rescued pawn from a incapacitated refugee event gets a 'I was rescued' mood boost but in the chased refugee event there isn't something similar. We murdered half the people that probably had a good reason for chasing you, get happy will ya?
- What's up with non-pirate factions getting an automatic -100 goodwill if I use a psychic lance when they raid me? They raid me, I gun them down and even destroyed some of their outposts, no goodwill change at all, but if a psychic lance is involved that's crossing the line.
- When a caravan returns, pack animals don't follow the pawn that's unloading them. Since it takes so long I usually have to zone them over my stockpiles and unload them from the gear tab.
- "hats shown only on game map" could be a toggle next to the other visual toggles at the bottom right, since I usually like to have hats off but occasionally I want to check if everyone is wearing helmets at glance.
- I don't like that a colonist instantly disappears from the UI if his corpse is destroyed, I understand why it happens but I would want to take a last look at who I lost and what stats he had, maybe keep it in the colonist bar for a day even when there's no corpse?.
- I feel we should have the means to save some presets for time assignments, sometimes I have to set them all to 'anything' so they can attend their needs, restoring that when some have a night shift can be a chore even with the copy&paste. Parties are annoying because of that too, I try to put recreation at 8 hours so everyone can attend parties but since it can last a while I have to extend their recreation time every time as well, then the party is over and gotta revert the changes. I also don't like the interface, I would prefer it if it could show me the length of the assignments instead of having to wonder "is that 7 or 8 hours of sleep?" and having to count the blocks.
- I would want to see the size of growing zones, displayed somewhere or as a tool like the room stats display but for zones, is hard to get that information if the shape is not rectangular.
Quote from: Tynan on July 30, 2018, 03:47:40 AM
Refinements to items visuals.
Yes, I know you reverted the changes in the visuals of components so you could read about all the people that actually liked the new textures. So here ... I'm among those that liked the new textures of components and would prefer them over the old ones.
[attachment deleted due to age]
About drug policies: I'd love to have some buttons/checkmarks for minor and major break risks and use only during parties and marriages.
I know we can set percentages but I'd like to see these little QoL additions to that menu.
cheers :)
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: forest / flat
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 25
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4
Gift-Event
In this playthrough I noticed the new 'gift' event gifting me stuff when I look needy.
Within the first season I did get 50 medicine and 5 glitter med in three visits.
On one side this is pretty nice but too much, as I am drowning in medicine early on. On the other hand I did grow herbs at day one to be prepared, which was kind of wasted time.
Above points might be things of balancing, but what bothers me the most is the events argumentation "you were having a hard time recently". As I started recruiting just at the beginning, having 6 pawns, a single down and about 50 wood traps spread around on the map which pushes my wealth - I don't feel like having a hard time, so I don't know why these lonely wanderers dare to question my colony management.
Since 1.0 I am very happy with the world events - at least some of them.
Rescue Missions:
Great! Everytime a colonist needs to be rescued I start a doctor and medicine which will come back with a recruit or some organs, whichever was the better choice.
Peace Talks:
I never take these, as I don't the the benefit. If a faction likes me or not, raids will occur and if they don't want to trade with me another faction will, so no reason to bother. For becoming allies I need more ressources, so I see these more as a lategame thing.
Bandit Camps:
I only take these wen I feel very strong. Anyway, most of the time I didn't achieve anything by it, as I will find weapons and recruits. While organs or organ carriers are always welcome, the weapons bandits use are rarely intresting for me, so it's just stacking up wealth, for not getting a benefit like higher colony security or such.
Hidden stash:
Most of the time these things are traps. Either its very useless crap they sell like a excellent granite bed with a masterwork wooden stool which has no real value, or they are things that could have value but are not needed. As an example I did find a legendary marine armor at day 5 or so. First, I thought great it's a great armor, but then I did mind that it will be much wealth and only protect one part of one pawn, whilst head and leg, plus all other pawns will have no benefit, but more trouble.
Another example would be a antigrain warhead, emp grenates, statues and mostly anything - even a flatscreen television(!). If you take them before you need them, it will cause you trouble. There are only drawbacks by cool stuff and when you need things, you are better up to produce them by yourself. It's better to stay low until you can give things to everyone. This stands for weapons, armor, luxury items like statues and so on.
The best stash I can remember were three LMGs with normal and good quality. These had a equal buff to my 6 people, while not pushing wealth too much.
Quote from: Bolgfred on August 01, 2018, 03:48:57 AM
As an example I did find a legendary marine armor at day 5 or so. First, I thought great it's a great armor, but then I did mind that it will be much wealth and only protect one part of one pawn, whilst head and leg, plus all other pawns will have no benefit, but more trouble.
Give it to a prisoner and then kill them to make it tainted, massively reducing the wealth impact, at the cost of only -3 mood for the wearer.
personally, i 've never seen wealth or anything actually affected my runs that much or at all, the difficulty i feel 're relatively just right, relatively - since there's sometimes weird unbalance like the variety of raids, for example
in .19.78-.1981, my current run, there're just so many sapper raids, psychic drones while very little of ships, mechs, drop pods, infestations, manhunt packs, etc.
or maybe i just didn't know the "alternatives" so i couldnt tell :|
currently running on Rough Randy, 6 years, all researches done & no pawns dead yet since the start, the only annoying thing is the sapper attacks, they magically know the placement of all the traps in the map, so it's always up to the pawns to take them out
and with all the wooden traps lying around, 1 inferno or heavy blast shoot from centipedes and everything goes off in flame, meanwhile stone traps take weeks to rebuild :|
so well, i suppose, most complaints 're from the Extreme/Intense/Merciless ppl then? (which well, obviously, should be hard, no?)
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 416 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
Debug Graphs/Notes for v.1981
Story Time:
-In an extraordinary turn of events, I got a Quest Reward of two Resurrector Serums...exactly the number that I need to bring my two colonists who died over a year and a half ago back from the dead. I had them frozen in two sarcophagi, and lucky for me, the freezer temperature never thawed out.
I brought them both back to life, without any apparent harm. Even their clothes had the "T" removed. As a finishing touch, I had both of them destroy their own sarcophagus. I didn't think they'd particularly want to see them again, every time they grab a meal.
A few raids, more Psychic Ships. I'm really, really starting to loathe Mechanoids. Outside of that, an enjoyable time playing.
Some graphs:
(https://i.imgur.com/skVwjKm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/FExDeeX.png)
Storyteller: randy
Difficulty: rough
Biome/hilliness: boreal forest
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 476
Hours played in the last 2 days: dunno, much
so i dont know how to recreate it, and im not sure if its accurate, but i think there is a bug with disappearing weapons, when equipping new ones. i had this now multiple times. the old equipped weapon just disappears and is never seen again :/
Quote from: lauri7x3 on August 01, 2018, 07:37:56 AM
Storyteller: randy
Difficulty: rough
Biome/hilliness: boreal forest
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 476
Hours played in the last 2 days: dunno, much
so i dont know how to recreate it, and im not sure if its accurate, but i think there is a bug with disappearing weapons, when equipping new ones. i had this now multiple times. the old equipped weapon just disappears and is never seen again :/
your dude/dudette probably hauled the weapon back to stockpile after equipping new 1
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: survival
Biome/hilliness: Extreme desert, flat
Commitment mode: (yes/no): No
Current colony age (days): 5
Hours played in the last 2 days: 2
Complete mod list: Prepare carefully
Haven't had much time to play yet, but came across 2 annoyences:
First, hauling when building and out of material in storage. Pawns walk across the map to get enough material for 1 piece of wall, go to wall, build, than walk back across the map again to get more. Instead of hauling maximum carry capacity, then build (storage is right next to wall to be built).
Second, when setting mining manually as priority, pawns mine a bit then stop and do another non-crucial task. Instead of finishing one tile of mining before doing sth else.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): ~270
Hours played in the last 2 days: about 15
3 more years of Sea Ice. Sea Ice is both pretty boring and pretty exciting. It'd be nice if there were faster speeds available, because during the down times there's almost no micromanagement since there's so few colonists. Just watching the fort can get a little boring even at 3 speed.
While turrets have taken care of many situations, it's really tense when you only have like 3 dudes to help out when they fail, though. A 20 manhunting snowhares event, several sieges, and a ship event have all been three downed colonists from a crushing defeat. In one instance I was almost unable to stop a siege as two cannibals had food poisoning and the enemy had 2 bolt action rifles.
I've only been able to really support one colonist joining per year, not just because of food, I've finally got hydroponics steady, but also lack of things to do. I've LRMSed a few sites, steel and uranium so far. Things are seriously ramping up now, though, and it's mostly a matter of finding colonists that don't suck now that I'm more aware of how having too many colonists hurts.
Everyone's been seriously pissed off at each other because they're failing romances. No idea why, they all like each other, but 5 years of rebuffedx5 is so weird. You'd think the two cannibal lesbians would hit it off, but maybe they just want to eat each other. Won't make that joke. ::)
I've been completely unable to stop myself from limiting wealth, it's just no fun xD I have screwed around with adaptation every now and then when it's been like a year or two and I've had no incidents. The most recent case I had a chased refugee that was worthless so I just let him be kidnapped.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: BlueMarble007 on July 31, 2018, 08:48:38 AM
Hi devs! Quick question: why is 'Look everywhere'/'Look in stockpile X' only available for Do Until You Have X and not for Do Forever and Do X Times? And why isn't it available at all for Butchery (and, I presume, other such tasks)? Is this temporary, or a bug?
It just dawned on me... the 'Look *' button isn't for the ingredients, but for counting the items in a certain stockpile. I feel very silly. To avoid confusion (as I can't imagine I'm the only one), maybe rename this button to 'Count items everywhere'/'Count items in stockpile X'? I'd love to see the functionality of what I thought this button did though: 'Take items from stockpile X' or 'Take items from stockpiles:' + a list of selectable stockpiles. Any chance this could be added in?
it'd be nice if unfinished work could be transfered into other pawn to be done if the 1 doing it suddenly die, i sometimes 've 1 crafting pawn die, ending up wasting resource by deconstructing all the 'unfinished xxx' of the work he/she's been doing, it'd be quite annoying if it's something that use advanced component, plasteel or uranium :|
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Boreal forest, large hills
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age (days): end of winter year 2
Hours played in the last 2 days: no idea
Another piece of feedback: largely due to the trap change, my boreal forest map has become almost completely denuded. I have quite literally harvested every tree on the map. While new trees spawn occasionally it is far from enough to keep me going.
Aside from my earlier request to make traps cheaper, have multiple uses before breaking, or just to revert them back to the way they were in B18, I would like to suggest a simple QoL feature: we should be able to plant trees outside of the grow period. I understand why we can't do this with crops, but with trees it would be a great boon to lay these in winter and have them start growing immediately when the growing season starts.
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.
New build is going up!
Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.
Quote from: Tynan on August 01, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.
New build is going up!
Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.
Hi Tynan, thanks for the new build. Would you mind posting a complete changelog? It's quite difficult to test the effect of changes in the game if we don't know what has changed! Of course you might have decided that by not telling us about the changes we will provide more unbiased feedback?
it just came to my mind that, growing healroots to 100% (basically wait for the pawns to harvest on their own) is rather time-wasting, consider you can 've them harvest the trees at ~70%-80% & the yield 'd still be 1 herb medicine like 100%, so why waste time waiting the last 20%?
Quote from: giltirn on August 01, 2018, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: Tynan on August 01, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.
New build is going up!
Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.
Hi Tynan, thanks for the new build. Would you mind posting a complete changelog? It's quite difficult to test the effect of changes in the game if we don't know what has changed! Of course you might have decided that by not telling us about the changes we will provide more unbiased feedback?
it makes bug reporting a pain because half the the time you have no idea how the systems are supposed to work, so how are you suppose to tell when they are not working.
I have seen games that consistently do this, that describe perks/abilities in intentionally vague values.
It then takes several months to fix something that can be resolved in days if the proper values were provided.
Quote from: giltirn on August 01, 2018, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: Tynan on August 01, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.
New build is going up!
Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.
Hi Tynan, thanks for the new build. Would you mind posting a complete changelog? It's quite difficult to test the effect of changes in the game if we don't know what has changed! Of course you might have decided that by not telling us about the changes we will provide more unbiased feedback?
Good hint might be browsing the Bugs (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0) section for threads recently closed by Tynan.
Quote from: giltirn on August 01, 2018, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: Tynan on August 01, 2018, 10:14:05 AM
Thanks for the ongoing feedback everyone.
New build is going up!
Nothing huge in this one, just some various fixes and adjustments here and there. No major single focus.
Hi Tynan, thanks for the new build. Would you mind posting a complete changelog? It's quite difficult to test the effect of changes in the game if we don't know what has changed! Of course you might have decided that by not telling us about the changes we will provide more unbiased feedback?
I guess the reason is that you should just play and give feedback on how you experienced playing. For this it is no need to know the exact changes.
Of cause there are arguments for and against it and different ways to do this. I like complete patchnotes too, but I understand the reasons behind this. It can just be annoying when you think something works like you have it in mind but it did get changed. Although that is one of the things to expect when playing unstable.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 01, 2018, 11:07:07 AM
it just came to my mind that, growing healroots to 100% (basically wait for the pawns to harvest on their own) is rather time-wasting, consider you can 've them harvest the trees at ~70%-80% & the yield 'd still be 1 herb medicine like 100%, so why waste time waiting the last 20%?
It does not always yield 1 herbal medicine. If a crop is harvested it has a float value of the yield which gets rounded randomly. So your healroot might yield 0.8 herbal meds which is most of the time 1 but sometimes you get 0 even when not botching/failing to harvest.
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Scenario: Tribal start
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival/savage
Biome/hilliness: Arid, flat
Commitment mode: no (for testing branches, commiting in the main game)
Current colony age (days): 129
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~12
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer, Simple Stockpile Presets, Single Plant Texture Patch
- My colonists are pretty happy this game. One of them is always above 100 mood and recently got an inspiration while being on another inspiration, so the second one did overwrite the first. They were both shooting, so I'm not sure if it really was overwritten or refreshed, but if overwriting is possible, it can result in really annoying cases like overwriting a crafting inspiration shortly before someone finished crafting.
- Drug production is under crafting work type but the speed comes from intelligence. So I need to manually set that only my intelligent colonists craft drugs, otherwise someone with 30% speed always starts to do that.
- I had a bug where after powering on a chemfuel powered generator, that one did not produce power and kept the "no power" symbol as if it now need power instead of producing it. Was fueled of cause and I waited a long enough time for it to start. It was after a zzzt where all my batteries were empty and no wind, so I had big power shortage. The second chemfuel generator activated normally. Toggleing again also did not help. I replaced it in devmode, the new one worked fine too.
- Relation gain from trading is not really clear. My last caravan traded goods for over 5k silver and I got 3 relation points from 56 to 59. A huge part of this was goods against goods in a single trade. I'm not sure if this gives less points than selling and buying separately, but it feels like it compared to other trade I made. After that with another faction I trades for around 2k and got 2 relation points from 90 to 92. Is relation harder to get on the rough factions? I have almost always 100 with the civil outlanders (their outpost also is closer so I trade more with them) but the rough ones are hard to get up. I also had better stuff to buy at the civil outlanders, but that may be just luck and a small sample size.
- I'm also at a point where I have a lot silver stored because I can't find anything valueable enough to buy with it. My research is way behind, I already bought archotech, artefacts, most weapons (the rest is from raiders) and power armor but can't produce any of this. But it was not easy to do that as it may sound, since I really focus on producing and selling stuff to buy useful items and there is a lot risk involved to not get a raid at the wrong time. The only thing may be that hunting is a bit too profitable, but it also takes a lot work from various colonists to hunt, cook, tailor and produce chemfuel and of cause depends on the biome. Although I don't think arid shrubland has even the most animals. A biome with herd mitigations or forest may give more. Anyway, most stuff now I decide to not buy because of too bad quality. Earlier I bought things like a normal minigun or power armor, now it's not really worth it. I would like a money sinkhole for lategame but this may be too special and more a mod idea. (Like there are some specialists in faction outpost I could order to produce an item of nice quality, but it also takes time and has a risk of either bad quality or I get a random item.). Or I can invest in an outpost of an ally so they have more or better items in the future.
- How about an "untuned" or "everything" option at the mineral scanner with a little bit higher chance to find something.
- A scanner variant with a mixture of a comms console to scan for world quests. Could also be aa social or social/research job with the background that the colonist asks around everywhere if anyone found something unusual.I also like the idea someone had earlier for an ancient danger world quest, although the normal danger might be too valuable, but a smaller one for these quests might work. Especially that I had no danger on my map this game, makes me miss one.
- Even as a tribal I did not see much value from researching plate armor or greatbows. I maybe would build them but the research is a big problem. Research if already hard enough and other stuff was way more important for me. By the time I could research plate armor, I already had flak. Raiders quickly have flak that even tainted is strong to wear, otherwise there is a good chance to get it from downed enemies or just buy it. Poor or normal flak costs under 500 or 400 silver which is not that hard to get for the value if one can't salvage any armor. I salvaged early and started buying stuff a few seasons in. I like salvaging and I also like that I can play only with it and not needing to craft anything (with the game then being harder of cause). Iirc I researched stonecutting, furniture, clothing, air conditioning and batteries, microelectronics, various drugs, ..., then later smithing/machining to just disassembly mechs
- Never had problems with caravans staying in my freezer anymore. They now stay close outside of my wall. Only minor problem I had is that they decide to eat in larger groups and block all my chairs (which aren't that much) and it happend a few times that my colonist then ate without table. I refuse to build a bigger table but I can also live with this if it doesn't get changed that caravan npcs just always eat while standing.
- The first wedding I had got canceled because someone else started a social fight with one of them. They took a long time until they tried again, but they did.
- I take more care of good mood this game than before. Mood management is a nice addition to the game. Could also have a bit more depth. Like more influence from and to social: Happy colonists are more friendly to each other, so they may start a romance or such. The other way around more effect of people hating each other on mood (like when someone is too close to a rival a "I have to work with someone I don't like -3" or such) Should not be too impactful, but a few minor things to keep track of and optimize to give it way more depth. I remember a story from someone a few days ago here where they had to build different rooms and areas for 2 colonists because they really hated each other and just started a lot social fights. And of cause some positive things from this as well. I currently try to hook up two of my colonists by letting them do a lot together but with limited success so far. Both even tried a romance to each other but at the wrong time so they both rejected (The rejection may give a too big debuff to social points). I think a bit more of this could be a nice alternative challenge to just raids. Both social and mood, although too much social would result in The Sims.
----
Graphs attached. (There are again a few raids missing in the graphs as red dots. A refugee chase raid is there, at least one normal is missing (and a siege I think))
- The wealth spikes down and corresponding fun points are when one or more colonists went away to sell a huge amount of goods.
- On the population graph missing is one prisoner I recruited and got instantly killed. I think it was day 39 but not sure (could also be one later).
- A "wealth colonists" graph may be useful cut of from items, where I can see the wealth of worn stuff (so items in use). I think my item wealth in stockpiles in somewhat constant and even going down in the last time. Would be interesting to see this.
- "Wealth silver" would be a bonus, not sure if there is much use in it of if it's just more disturbing graph spam.
- The huge mood drop day 114 was me harvesting organs, selling prisoners and butchering people. I think it was around -54 or -59 for most of them. Someone got a minor break, 2 had to take a few drugs, but manageable and my own fault of cause (which is way more fun than random stuff).
Timelapse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaLGJhkZhNc
[attachment deleted due to age]
Hey!
Think I just found a bug
There was an incapacitated refugee that I sent a caravan after, but they were gonna get there too late. So I dropped one of my colonists into the area to "hold the fort" until my main caravan arrived, but when the caravan got there, I got the message "Bancarbi has left the area". My drop pod colonist reverted to caravan form and the incapacitated refugee disappeared.
Sucks cause I was in desperate need of a recruiter :'(
Version: 1.0.1981
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest Flat River
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 330-ish?
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10?
Complete mod list: None
I don't really want to post a complete story about how it felt atm. It did seem strange that the faction calling for peace talks decides to attack. See attached screenshot.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I think we could use a "wicker man" building that we can mount a pawn in so we can burn them as an offering to the adaption gods in an organized and dignified manner. Old time religion.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, Mountainous, Year round growing.
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 332
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10
I built a reactor and fired it up to try to survive the event. I made it, although it was touch and go for awhile. I feel like there is a lot of luck involved in the raid type. I got quite a few tribal raids that were completely trivial, but nearly died when I got 2 mech raids back and back (Only 3 hours between them) of mostly centipedes.
Anyway, here are my thoughts:
Pod launchers are extremely useful, but tedious. It would be nice if you could edit the pod's contents instead of having to cancel and reload from scratch if you want to add anything. Additionally, only one pawn being able to load the pod at a time makes things extremely tedious.
For something like long range mineral sites it would be nice if it was possible to remember pod 'loadouts' so I don't have to go through the list every time and select what I need.
Speaking of which, I really like the LRMS but often times it's a lot of clicking and menu navigatining in order to go to a location they're going to mine for all of 5 seconds and pod back. It's a good way to get wealth but it's tedious for me as a player.
It would be nice if you could load incapacitated pawns into pod launchers. You can load corpses and prisoners, but not someone who is incapped. I'd really like to be able to transport injured pawns, or 'medivac' ones that go down while on a caravan.
I would like to not be forced out of maps with an arbitrary time limit. One time I had a colonist go Wild Man on me on item stash map. Thankfully I succeeded the tame in time but that would have been really annoying. I assume the time limit is to stop the player from hiding wealth in a place where there are no events. I think a better solution would be to give the player a set amount of time without events, then past that give them a message saying their location has been noticed and enable raids and such on the map.
Losing bed assignments after caravaning is extremely annoying.
I've noticed pawns can still 'chain' break, that is they break, snap out of it, and then break again during the time it takes for mood to adjust. This is still possible because often pawns will eat and then sleep right after a break. Sleeping locks their mood so even though in passage of time it's been 8 hours, their mood hasn't had time to adjust.
Prisoners seem to break constantly now. Unless you use an insanity lance prisoners are always in intense pain and generally have other mood debuffs from friends being dead, seeing corpses, and other negatives from combat. Almost all of my prisoners break as soon they can stand up after being captured. They usually go right back down, but sometimes they manage to injure themselves and others, and occasionally they get killed.
I wish there were better tools for automation of a late game colony. I feel like the game really starts to bog down there, but it might just be that it isn't fun for me personally. I feel like things kind of drag on with building the ship because the event requires you to really stockpile food and resources.
I started the reactor event at about 250k wealth. I ended at about 212k.
In terms of defenses:
Traps are good early game. They don't require research and can be made from basic materials. With a simple setup they can trivialize early raids. Later on, traps become overshadowed by IEDs. The only reason to continue using traps at that point is for interior defenses where you don't want to have stuff exploding in your base. I had a massive minefield that could handle a lot of raids on it's own. I used a grid of concrete over rough stone and dirt to abuse the AI pathfinding and increase the likelihood of traps being triggered.
One negative aspect of the trap change is that as far as biomes go, the rich got richer. It's just not worth it to grow your own trees ever due to the insanely long sowing time, and so decisions like playing on an arid grassland instead of a forest are more punishing. Traps now being a resource drain to the point where realistically you can only use wood means it's now even more punishing to not play in a forest.
I used turrets for interior defense, as a stalling tactic to keep the enemy busy while I position pawns. I keep my turrets on hold fire until I need them, as they mostly served to just shoot my own pawns in the back during infestations. I found positioning them is difficult when you don't actually have a dedicated kill box. Between worries of friendly fire and exploding, placement options feel limiting. I don't know if it's just confirmation bias but it sure feels like turrets friendly fire your pawns way more than other pawns do. It also feels like turrets are just an expensive IED against infestations.
I did not use a killbox in this playthrough. I used several layers of walls/doors with sandbags in front.
Door peaking completely trivializes melee as you can shoot them with complete impunity. You can order a pawn to walk into a doorway, then as soon as you see the door start to open, draft and undraft them. This stops them in front of the door, but the door still opens and your pawn will shoot through it. Enemies can't walk through the door. So this just lets you abuse melee by shooting them when they can't fight back.
Early on you can similarly abuse ranged enemies by waiting for them to wander and doing the same process. Late game, however, I found there were so many enemies that it wasn't really practical. It may just be I didn't know the best techniques for it and it remains viable versus ranged even with large numbers, I'm not exactly sure.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Alright, just finished my second run for 1.0 unstable, having fended off another relentless onslaught of raids for one whole quadrum.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Scenario: Crashlanded (but all starting pawns 65 or older)
Difficulty: Savage
Biomes:Main base - Ice Sheet (mountainous, -8C to -54C seasonal)
Outpost - Tundra (flat, 5C to -43C seasonal)
Commitment mode: Yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: Probably another 12-16
Complete mod list: Core, More Faction Interaction (playtesting)
Imgur post with screenshots of the base, outpost, as well as each colonists' bios, equipment, health and records: https://imgur.com/a/d1UGhjY
- I'd recommend checking it if you want to see me somewhat outline my thought process throughout the endgame sequence, as well as just the logistical process of my faction's development.
Graphs are directly attached to this post as well as in the imgur post.
Now for my general thoughts on 1.0 from my second completed run, and what I've found to be rather odd:
- I've found that threat points only cap at 10,000, which throws a wrench in the scaling. To be fair though, by the time one hits 10,000 points, they're probably going to be borderline unstoppable anyway
- The corpse obsession mental break is very lacklustre and feels more like a free catharsis. Provided that the colonist who unburied the corpse can haul, you can simply order them to re-bury the corpse upon finishing their mental break (which is usually very quick), which'd usually prevent other colonists from getting negative thoughts
- Hostile melee pawns that are clumped together (most noticeable with deep late-game/end-game tribal raids) have their weird ways of 'decompressing' upon taking damage, which can prove to be very bizarre in tight spaces
- I've found that skill levels past 10 or so regarding quality don't really matter much - especially when it comes to inspired creativity. I've had level 10 pawns end up making legendaries, and level 18 pawns only end up making excellents and masterworks. Even in general, roughly level 14 pawns can quite consistently make excellent gear. Anything much further beyond 14 is borderline placebo
- I've found that deep drilling uranium and plasteel has been very bountiful - perhaps too bountiful. I was able to get to around 1500 uranium and plasteel from basically none just by drilling a single node. While it's nice to see there are good ways to get these resources, I feel that the yields should certainly be cut down
- Unlike the flak vest, flak pants (and by extension flak jackets) don't really do much to actually protect the wearer, and it's almost not worth bothering with them and just skip straight to power armour. They probably need a buff
- Colonists will pocket insect jelly if there's any around rather than fine meals, despite fine meals generally being safer to eat and being more nutrition-efficient. This could be a proximity thing though, but it would be more desirable for colonists to just generally choose the 'safer' option
- Transport pods have their fair share of technical oddities - for those who want to see my thoughts on those, see here (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg422156#msg422156)
- I still stand by the fact that mechanoids need some better way of tracking them; haywire mechanoids in particular are difficult to keep track of, and since they somewhat blend in with the snow, that exacerbates the problem in this case. Maybe they should have name tags.
- In records, the 'Time as colonist' seems to cap at 9.6 years. This is probably just a bug though
- I've noticed with cold biomes like tundras that although they start off with a very minimal amount of foliage, they quickly become totally barren and devoid of any plant life - no usable trees or anything. Any plants that do spawn there typically don't get to grow since temperatures are too low, even plants like pine trees or healroot which are meant to fare well in cold conditions
- In cases where I've had unroofed snow clearing zones, it's a bit strange that colonists will try to clear snow while it's still snowing, which means that their efforts will soon be reverted. While it is possible to roof over these zones (although less-so for mortars and transport pod landing zones), this generally does take up a lot of cleaning labour
- Similarly, higher priority production stockpiles located closer to particular workbenches (e.g. smokeleaf leaves by drug labs) are a bit janky to work with since there isn't a way to only have colonists fill those stockpiles if stacks are at or below a certain percentage of their stack limit, which results in constant stockpile filling which takes up around 90% of a colony's haulers' time
Despite these oddities though, I've had a blast experiencing 1.0 with old starting colonists on an ice sheet, and it's shaped up to actually be a pretty great update. Keep up the good work!
Economically, this was probably my strongest colony to date, undoubtedly helped by More Faction Interaction which has trader wealth scale with colony wealth. My total silver count peaked at around 34,000. Main sources of income included old apparel, chemfuel from insect/human meat, human leather dusters and slate artwork from the mountain. This was supplemented by surplus textiles (mainly muffalo wool and devilstrand from the outpost).
[attachment deleted due to age]
One of the least developed and most "awful" (it's not that bad) things I find when playing is the research tab. I nearly never play without a mod for it, but unfortunately fluffy hasn't updated his mod in a while and it broke, so I had to play with the vanilla research tab.
The "tabs" you can add with mods are great, but overall the experience of using it is still pretty bad. What I miss most compared to the modded versions is:
- Queueing up research
- Graphical preview of what will be unlocked
Hey all! I'm having a small issue: a colonist of mine died (as they do) but she left unfinished apparel. Would it possible to implement that the game 'unreserves' apparel when a colonist dies (or becomes unable to move)?
Scenario: Crashlanded
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, small hills
Commitment mode: YES (always)
Current colony age (days): 217
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8
I'm getting a ton of Mechanoid raids (6 in total of the last 7 with 3 in a row dropping in the middle of my base).
I think after the first weeks you get no more missions... I have nothing to do in the world map. No downed refugee, no family rescue, no outpost... nothing.
I had 18 colonists but now after a few difficult raids I'm down at 14 with 1 prisoner. Too many prosthetic arms and legs so far... Having a hard time getting components.
Quote from: BlueMarble007 on August 01, 2018, 01:55:37 PM
Hey all! I'm having a small issue: a colonist of mine died (as they do) but she left unfinished apparel. Would it possible to implement that the game 'unreserves' apparel when a colonist dies (or becomes unable to move)?
I have not been in this situation before, but can you burn it?
My colonist with broken pelvis always stays alone in the hospital. I wont be able to move her to her room without destroying all medical beds.
Could you configure it so that incapacitated colonists stay on their room? That would make more sense, specially if they have a partner there.
Quote from: Koek on August 01, 2018, 03:29:07 PM
Quote from: BlueMarble007 on August 01, 2018, 01:55:37 PM
Hey all! I'm having a small issue: a colonist of mine died (as they do) but she left unfinished apparel. Would it possible to implement that the game 'unreserves' apparel when a colonist dies (or becomes unable to move)?
I have not been in this situation before, but can you burn it?
I can cancel it, but I'd prefer just reassigning it
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: The one that used to be the second one to the last one (cant keep track of its ever changing name, sorry!)
Biome/hilliness: Mountanious boreal forest
Commitment mode: Yes, with shameless alt+f4 savescumming
Current colony age (days): 330+
Hours played in the last 2 days: 7 aprox
Complete mod list: None
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I noticed a really weird bug.
I get notifications of people getting the Flu, and those people are not my colonists.
I checked in a visiting caravan and couldnt see them either. "Jump to location" button was disabled. Has happened twice in last update.
Scenario: Crashlanded
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival Struggle/Intense/Extra Hard ---> increased to Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Tundra, Mountainous
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 400-500
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20
So I have about 300-400 hours total in the game but I haven't done a mountainous colony in a while because bugs are annoying, but I decided to do something different this time. The game is complete and I didn't take notes so I'll just run through some highlights:
Started with 3 decent colonists and even though it was tundra it was just barely tundra and I was able to find some rich soil and 15-20 days of growing. Got some rice going fairly easily and never really struggled with food at all. In fact, as mentioned later, I was able to stockpile over 1200 packaged survival meals and easily have food for colonists and several muffalo the entire game. There were just constant elk, caribou and muffalo herds entering the map and because they instantly came into my base to steal my food I could easily hunt them down. My meat stockpile was a bit absurd at various points in the game. My base was eventually able to sustain 3 greenhouses for year-round growth with a diverse array of power sources.
For defenses I used natural mountains and left the front of my base with about an 8-tile wide opening to invite raiders in. I used exactly 2 mini-turrets, 1 autocannon, and 1 sniper. I also had 3 other mini turrets in other base areas that were problematic with jailbreaks and infestations. Both front retaining walls had doors so colonists could peek out and take shots before the main assault. For the first time ever I used high explosive IEDs as defense and I was extremely pleased with them. I set up a minefield at the front of my base and on the side entrance (which was never actually attacked by anything other than manhunters). The IEDs worked amazingly well at crowd control and weakening the enemy and they made manhunters a cakewalk. The sniper turret is scary AF. Overall I only rebuilt the big turrets a couple of times, raiders almost never made it to them before fleeing.
The biggest threat were the infestations, but I don't know if I was just lucky but I only got one really dangerous massive infestation before I left the base for greener pastures. It was by far the closest to a colony wipe I experienced. I had strip mined the large mountain next to me for resources, I had little choice. I then sectioned the mines out with doors and added wooden flooring at various places so I could burn out the bugs when they arrived. My plan didn't work. Massive infestation hit so I sent my fastest pawn with an incendiary launcher to peek through a door and set the wood on fire and run. Two problems: apparently fire doesn't spread that well on wooden floors (I don't know if this was a change or if it never did), and apparently the moment their hives catch on fire the bugs go full commando mode towards your base hell or high water through anything that stands in their path. They busted through every door and came at us full strength. This was after having a few days to multiply because I waited for a caravan to return home that had came down with flu and was moving at a snails pace. So an insane amount of bugs came at us, killed our animals, destroyed half the base, but I kited them to our minefields and somehow didn't lose any people. The cleaning up and rebuilding took a long while but we got there. Afterward I dug out a huge room in the mountain just before our base entrance held up by 4 pillars. I placed IED's in a chain to blow the walls and collapse the mountain on the bugs the next time they came at us. Sadly I never got to test my trap before we left. At some point around year 5 I changed difficulty to merciless.
This is the first game I ever got offered Tornado Generators and this time I got like 5 of them. They were pretty fun to play around with but it did backfire one time. I used one to absolutely decimate a sapper raid, unfortunately the tornado then turned around a demolished a section of my prison, fridge and OF COURSE my mortar/chemfuel room. The rebuild wasn't too bad. It was funny though.
We only lost one colonist during our time in the tundra. He died randomly to centipede heavy charge fire. Other than that it was a pretty easy time. I managed to get all 15 of our people decked out in marine armor and marine helmets, stockpiled 1200 PSMs and headed toward the ship halfway across the globe. The caravaning was more or less easy but it's a good thing I packed 3-4 doomsday launchers because the ambushes were intense. I still had a tribe and outlander union as enemies and they came at us pretty hard. We traded and raided our way there in 40 days or so. I really enjoy the traveling part of RimWorld and I think the improvements have made it way better. I wish you could get better stuff from settlements though. The attacks aren't the easiest thing to accomplish and you don't seem to get much out of it. Honestly I got better stuff from tribes just because I could harvest their crops. Once I got food and another time I got devilstrand.
When you first arrive at the ship it's quite difficult to set up a defensive structure around the ship without everyone losing their minds. It was in a temperate forest so we chopped down trees and quickly build a large wall around the ship and us. I made small bedrooms and a couple stockpile rooms. During this time one of my colonists with a painstopper installed in his brain went berserk and was beaten to death. That was our 2nd colony death. Way too many mental breaks to count. I had 3 people "give up" on the colony at this point, which seems dumb from a role-playing perspective (we just hiked across the world as a team to get out of here and when we get there they give up?). Anyway I beat the crap out of anyone who tried to leave and I found it amusing that as they lay on the ground beaten and bruised the game says "had a change of heart about leaving"...hell yeah you did.
The raids were intense as usual, basically non stop. I called in several outlander friendly squads to help out at various points and they were actually pretty darn useful. I made one launcher to send them extra stuff I had as gifts to keep our relations up. Unfortunately the tribespeople couldn't help us because they couldn't arrive in time. That was disappointing. The biggest problem was when a mechanoid drop pod raid dropped right on top of my mortars and destroyed my entire food stockpile and half my valuables. Luckily I was able to throw down a stove and hunt and cook a few meals to get us by. The hardest point came when two mechanoid raids happened within 3 hours of each other, both of which were almost entirely centipedes. My base was simply a square wooden box with a basic pillbox (wall, sandbag, wall, sandbag) on each side, no turrets or traps or IEDs at all. I now had two catatonic colonists and two extremely injured colonists and TWELVE centipedes to deal with. I almost turned it off and gave up but I underestimated full marine armor. I used one colonist with EMP grenades to basically go kamikaze and hope for the best. It worked. I stunned each 'pede long enough for my fighters to take care of business, but it was easily the closest we came to losing. After some more raids we finally made it. I launched off all my stuff to my buddies and climbed in the ship. Two colonists were carried to caskets but the rest made it there on their own. 14 left the planet. Fun experience overall.
Two nagging issues I would like to see fixed: Every time I sent pawns out on missions they lose their bedrooms, which sucks for greedy pawns or lovers because I always forget about it and soon I have people grumpy for not being with their lovers and people sleeping on the floor because some idiot took a double bed that wasn't theirs. Also it takes so long to load a large caravan (like when you are loading up your whole base) that it is nigh impossible to get it done before someone goes crazy. Not sure what can be done about this. In drug colonies I just have everyone snort some yayo first, but in this one my best bet was to activate a sooth pulser and hope for the best. We made it, but I had to beat someone out of a daze and patch them up before finally making it out.
After playing several games where we traveled to the ship and several games where we built the ship and survived the raids I have to say that both are quite fun ways to play. Certainly traveling to the ship is more challenging just because you have to set up a temporary base for 15 days that can defend insane raids and not have your whole colony lose their minds. The advanced component bottleneck was a little rough when building my own ship but with more than one fabrication bench you can get it done much quicker. My main takeaway from this last run is that Marine Armor is the bomb and IEDs are better than I thought they were.
Scenario: Rich explorer
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, 40/60 growing season, large hills no river
Commitment mode: nope.
Current colony age (days):
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8?
I lost a caravan because my boars would not attack anything. made a new game to test, still happened. they just flee from combat even though they were set to release, properly trained, master was on map.
Still bothers me that the caravan demands are always everything and the clothes on your back instead of something like all your silver, or just your weapons, something an actual highwayman's demands would be. Good bandits intimidate to get stuff, trying not the bring it to fighting terms, especially when outnumbered.
Also it's so easy to get the stranger in black I think it should be disabled on higher difficulties. If a colony should be doomed I would rather not have this happen.
I've been thinking that wealth as the main factor for raid size is not ideal, and judging from how the people on this forum are playing it has become metagamey. It would make sense that raid sizes are affected by
- distance to closest enemy faction base (see mod:safely hidden away)
- recent relations with faction, their messengers
- climate
- wealth
- how vulnerable your colony is (# of turrets/colonists and how well armed they are), as determined by their scouts (which may or may not even appear on your map)
Any good war effort has scouts, messengers, generals, etc. these things are simply missing from the game and ruin my immersion in the story. You could send a letter saying that an allied faction or your own colonists spotted a scout, and to expect a raid soon.
Messengers could appear on your map with a ? dialogue like traders do. you could kill or capture them to start a war, setting faction relations to -100, or talk to them for some options. of course the pirate messengers would extort your colony, pay them, they raid less, or give them slaves or whatever. other factions may ask for food, livestock, weapons. I don't think they should require you to caravan to complete, instead have some visitors of that faction come pick up the items and leave.
Currently most raids appear in numbers not great enough to absolutely destroy a colony and take it over, which makes little sense. If their force is small they should aim to steal or kidnap or just start fires to reclaim their territory instead of suicidal attacks against an obvious deathtrap. A lot of the difficulty in this game is entirely mitigated by abusing their bad AI.
I like the idea that faction bases don't like when you settle too close, extending upon that they should have increased patrols and caravans within their borders, meaning that their enemies are much less likely to have bandits in that area, so you can caravan through safe routes instead of always the same shortest path.
All those things would make the factions feel more alive. Of course I understand this is a big wish.
I liked the new component textures, really like the changes to chemical interest.
A bunch of stuff from the mod "better workbench management" has been in 1.0, but a bunch is missing for some ungodly reason. copy all bills, drag and drop bills, and default drop on floor. I've wasted so much time microing silly things just because those are missing.
Still have a question though: why only sci-fi bullet barrier shields and not wooden or metal shields so you can fight in melee without getting stabbed in the chest by a scyther and die? I seriously do not recommend trying to melee scythers. It's super weird to me that the best brawlers dodge all their hits instead of locking swords or parrying.
Quote from: jchavezriva on August 01, 2018, 03:43:40 PM
My colonist with broken pelvis always stays alone in the hospital. I wont be able to move her to her room without destroying all medical beds.
Could you configure it so that incapacitated colonists stay on their room? That would make more sense, specially if they have a partner there.
Can you try undesignating all other hospital beds and then uninstalling the one she's on? Then make sure she is assigned to where you want her and they should take her there. Then you can re designate the other hospital beds and reinstall the one she was on. Hopefully they won't take her back there.
Regarding xeo's notes on transport pods:
Colonists also will not gather in the area to load a transport pod! So if you're doing an LRMS site and you have a whole buttload of single components lying around, they will go to each component, and then load that individual component to the pod. Right now the only way to do transport pod loading is making a stockpile for them like old school caravans and then loading them.
Quote from: CakeOrDeath on August 01, 2018, 05:18:57 PM
Quote from: jchavezriva on August 01, 2018, 03:43:40 PM
My colonist with broken pelvis always stays alone in the hospital. I wont be able to move her to her room without destroying all medical beds.
Could you configure it so that incapacitated colonists stay on their room? That would make more sense, specially if they have a partner there.
Can you try undesignating all other hospital beds and then uninstalling the one she's on? Then make sure she is assigned to where you want her and they should take her there. Then you can re designate the other hospital beds and reinstall the one she was on. Hopefully they won't take her back there.
I had this in my current game with a guy with a shattered spine. I just undesignated all the hospital beds except the one I wanted him in and then re-designated after. No need to uninstall, just make it a regular bed and then you'll have to "Rescue" that person again. (My guy now has a shinny new Bionic Spine and can move around again)
Regular beds can be assigned (as can prison beds i believe, not in game to check), perhaps an option to reassign medical beds, and then have the doctor move someone if they are unable to walk?
Game note regarding infestations:
I just had a fairly large infestation (40+, including 27 Megaspiders) show up in my base due to exactly 8 underground tiles, shown below:
(https://i.imgur.com/42eJKym.png?1)
I've never, ever encountered this sort of overkill for 8 underground tiles - the equivalent of a 2x4 tile room- in any game that I've yet played. It's so egregious that I would consider this to be a bug (absolutely no pun intended).
I hope that this is remedied ASAP. Having 8 underground tiles which are all essentially on one straight line on the perimeter of a mountain spawning this size of an infestation should never happen. Further inside a mountain, in an actual 2x4' room, I would expect a proportionate infestation to the size of the room. This is as game-y as it gets.
Basically the way infestations work, if there's any valid spots on the entire map, they all go in those spots with some weighting. Currently for a spot to be valid, there's the parts everyone knows, and then there's the weird one: Instead of checking a tile for how many mined nearby overhead mountain tiles there are, it instead checks "mountainousness". Where mountainousness is how many unmined rock spots are in the surrounding 700 spaces of that tile, with mined spots overhead mountains counting for half. If that value is > 17%, it's valid.
The short of it is, if your patch of rocks is anything bigger than about 10x10, you're going to have a full on infestation if there's more than a handful of overhead mountain spots. And you will have none if it's a very small hill.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 01, 2018, 08:06:32 PM
Game note regarding infestations:
I just had a fairly large infestation (40+, including 27 Megaspiders) show up in my base due to exactly 8 underground tiles, shown below:
I hope that this is remedied ASAP. Having 8 underground tiles which are all essentially on one straight line on the perimeter of a mountain should never happen. Further inside a mountain, I would expect a proportionate infestation. This is as game-y as it gets.
I'm not sure how useful this feedback is without any settings info or graphs- there are a ton of posts in this thread about difficulty that don't give the proper frame of reference, they can be misleading.
Quote from: jchavezriva on August 01, 2018, 04:06:56 PM
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: The one that used to be the second one to the last one (cant keep track of its ever changing name, sorry!)
Biome/hilliness: Mountanious boreal forest
Commitment mode: Yes, with shameless alt+f4 savescumming
Current colony age (days): 330+
Hours played in the last 2 days: 7 aprox
Complete mod list: None
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I noticed a really weird bug.
I get notifications of people getting the Flu, and those people are not my colonists.
I checked in a visiting caravan and couldnt see them either. "Jump to location" button was disabled. Has happened twice in last update.
Storyteller: Randy Random
Scenario: Tribe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest / Flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: Greenworld, Numbers, Incident Person Stat, Wall Light, Simple Bulk Cooking,
Small Shelf, OgreStack, Simply More Bridge, More Faction Interaction, RimFridge, Allow Tools, No Forced Slowdown & Deep Ore Identifier
Game versions: 1980 - 1982
Exactly the same thing happen to me. A defector named Harrell got sick twice in my game since last update.
I have no idea who or where he is. Not a colonist or prisoner.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on August 01, 2018, 08:19:31 PM
Basically the way infestations work, if there's any valid spots on the entire map, they all go in those spots with some weighting. Currently for a spot to be valid, there's the parts everyone knows, and then there's the weird one: Instead of checking a tile for how many nearby overhead mountains, it instead checks "mountainousness". Where mountainousness is how many unmined rock spots are in the surrounding 700 spaces of that tile, with mined spots overhead mountains counting for half. If that value is > 17%, it's valid.
The short of it is, if your patch of rocks is anything bigger than about 10x10, you're going to have a full on infestation if there's more than a handful of overhead mountain spots. And you will have none if it's a very small hill.
Thanks for the explanation. It sounds like I've just discovered a scenario which is begging for that formula to get a re-work.
This is two firsts for me: I'm actually a bit heated, and I just used God Mode for the very first time ever to seal up those 8 tiles with Granite Walls.
Quote from: Crow_T on August 01, 2018, 08:25:19 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 01, 2018, 08:06:32 PM
Game note regarding infestations:
I just had a fairly large infestation (40+, including 27 Megaspiders) show up in my base due to exactly 8 underground tiles, shown below:
I hope that this is remedied ASAP. Having 8 underground tiles which are all essentially on one straight line on the perimeter of a mountain should never happen. Further inside a mountain, I would expect a proportionate infestation. This is as game-y as it gets.
I'm not sure how useful this feedback is without any settings info or graphs- there are a ton of posts in this thread about difficulty that don't give the proper frame of reference, they can be misleading.
I've posted my settings in every end-of-day update, but I'll do so again:
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 420 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
Point being: this feedback is valid on any difficulty level. A 40+ strong infestation would not spawn, on any difficulty, in an equivalent 8-tile room measuring 2 squares by 4 squares. Ever.
Yeah it's been a weird point of the infestation formula for a long time. If infestations are just a counter for mountain turtling, unmined spots should count for 0, mined overhead mountains count for 1, and maybe a bump to the percentage like 17->60. If infestations are more for realism, I guess the valid spots on the map should be totaled and the hives should be limited by valid spots * 10 or something.
So, I might've missed some updates, but was the Infection notification changed somehow? I'm not getting any indication when my pawns develop an infection until they're at the point of a "Medical Emergency." This is happening both for prisoners and colonists.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Tropical Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: 208 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
Bug report/observed behaviour: 'auto-haul' (pawns hauling items when going to a different task) ignore restricted zone.
Weird siege event: Siegers begin assaulting the colony immediately after a trivial wound to one dude. This happened while they were doing setup, immediatey after drop pods of their resources came down.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Medium
Scenario: Crashlanded
Biome/hilliness: Arid Shrubland (permanent summer, 54F to 102F)/ Small hills (with river)
Commitment mode: No (although self-enforced)
Current colony age: 48 days
Hours played in last 2 days: unsure, a lot though (unable to do much due to removal of all 4 wisdom teeth)
Complete mod list: None
Seems I found a bug. One of my colonists (original 3 :'( ) was the unlucky victim of a pump shotgun shot to the brain, killing her instantly. The following day I made a slate sarcophagus and put her corpse inside it. Here's the bug: Instead of the sarcophagus saying who is inside , it instead only says "Human corpse". Not only that, but my colonists did not get the positive thought from burying a dead colonist in a sarcophagus.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 31, 2018, 03:34:20 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 29, 2018, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 28, 2018, 12:15:26 PM
Randy rough tribal
Temperate 50/60 small hills
Permadeath
First summer, I restarted when I got errors on my last save
5 to 10 hours played
Hugs lib, skylights, memorable aurora, Infestation disabled
*snip*
I am working on an Prisoner rescue. .75 days away with a relationship. Mostly I am going because there are 3 turrets only and I want to see if I can steal them. I can't recall how heavy they are in 1.0.
I wanted to give a detailed account of this part. I forgot to get a screen shot, excitement of the moment.
I sent two tribals with sniper rifles who were decent shots. One was the middle aged nephew of the 17 year old uncle relationship. Gonna have to talk to his parents about that... I also sent three muffl's to haul, though the self tamed one had a bad back.
Map:
My colonists arrived on the temperate mountainous event map in the bottom left corner. The whole top 1/3 of the map was rock. The base was in the middle. The rest of the map had large rock outcroppings. The prisoner building was wood.
The Encounter:
The box said it was three turrets. It was actually two turrets, and two pirates and a mortar with incendiary shells. The top turret was completely useless. Not only did it face the rock wall a short distance away, but the rest of the exposure was obscured by the prisoner building. The other turret was in the bottom right of the base. It blocked me from accessing that side because its max range butted up against a rock that stretched to the map edge. The mortar was positioned on the same side of the base that I entered the map from. The pirate manning it wore a flak jacket and had molotovs. The other was wearing a shield belt and had a spear.
Combat:
I made sure the muffl's were assigned to a colonist so they would follow me, knowing the sniper weapon would be bad against spear guy and his shield. I moved my colonists near the mortar guy thanks to a small inlet in the rock there. I then realized that I was now too close for him to fire, though he refused to abandon his position. I began to fire on him, which triggered spear guy to come help (he was in the opposite corner of the base at the time). He got close enough and decided to attack the Muffl's. They made short work of him, and all he did was bruise them with the spear. Then I put holes in mortar guy with no resistance, he just stood there. My guys still had some food/rest left in them, so I went to work on the turrets. I used my range advantage to take out the batteries so I could claim them. The steel turrets were 10kg, and the mortar was 30kg so I was able to carry it home. I forgot to check the solar panels before I dissembled them to see if I could uninstall them.
A note on the prisoner I rescued. He was a coma child so I already knew he wasn't going to be good. Still, I wasn't really there for him anyways. In the end it works out. He only has a 1 for plants, but he has a passion. My existing planters are also my best cooks, so now I have a dedicated planter to share the work so they can cook.
It seems that pawns, both human and animal, who are not members of your colony no longer get descriptions of their current activity (e.g. "attacking Joe Blow," "consuming all your goddamn healroot"). I don't know if this is intended or not, but I hate it. I want to know whether a running animal is trying to eat something of mine so I can shut the door, or whether a raider is about to path into a trap due to his target so I can focus fire on someone else.
Also I noticed my pawns can walk freely over lamps now. Great change, especially since new Darkness debuff means I have to plaster the hallways with the suckers.
I just had a new tribal game start and the very first trader said I was doing poorly and left me 23 gold.
I'm struggling to eat, not make jewelry. lol.
Is this new or have I just never seen it before? I do love random positive effects though. It's nice having some RNG that isn't out to kill me. Though one could argue that cassandra is just giving me gold to increase my wealth to game her own systems to kill me later.
Damn AI trying to meta.
Quote from: mndfreeze on August 02, 2018, 01:27:49 AM
I just had a new tribal game start and the very first trader said I was doing poorly and left me 23 gold.
I'm struggling to eat, not make jewelry. lol.
Is this new or have I just never seen it before? I do love random positive effects though. It's nice having some RNG that isn't out to kill me. Though one could argue that cassandra is just giving me gold to increase my wealth to game her own systems to kill me later.
Damn AI trying to meta.
It's been in since 1.0 started I think. You tend to get the stuff early. Someone gave me 15 medicine and it was very welcomed. Surprised youv'e not seen it before, but it does tend to only happen in the very early game while you are - in fact - struggling.
weird. Yeah this is a first for me. I guess it's possible it happened at some other point and I missed it while dealing with something else, but thats unlikely. Any notification blips, bleeps, letters, or other indicators something bad just happened are pretty heavily imprinted in my brain, lol.
Well, neat. Hopefully next time they can leave me food, or a gun to hunt with. Gold makes terrible soup.
Either something changed with sapper A.I. or I just got lucky, but half of the sappers just walked into my main entrance. I think this even happened with a previous one as well. I'm wondering if this is related to having IEDs surrounding all the walls, or maybe just having a non-standard maze entrance.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I think the backstory "game developer" should at least give some intelligence and crafting, because math and paper prototypes. (Obviously im butthurt as a gamedev myself that it's such a bad backstory, yes I know it's supposed to be funny and a meme so I'm fine with it =p)
TBF you don't need exactly need a degree to make games and I'm pretty sure a game dev couldn't craft a t-shirt to save his life.
Edit: Actually having worked in that field a bit myself, if you want realism, you should add forced hediff (alcohol addiction). Or maybe just add that to EA games developer ::)
Edit: Also, OMG. Sappers in all direction is such a cruel raid type. Probably the only spread out raid I care about.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 432 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
v.1982
Game Notes/Graphs:
-I hope I didn't vent too hard about the Infestations earlier; that one genuinely threw me for a loop, though. I'm doing my best to report gameplay experiences, the good and the bad, and that one was...really, really bad. :)
-Had Friendlies intervene in a Siege for the first time; they wiped out the Pirates completely. It was very enjoyable to watch, and it was a big help. I remember seeing something similar in B18 on one legendary occasion (which I'll have to relate somewhere else, but it was one of the most memorable moments I've ever seen in the game). The Friendlies are a lot stronger in 1.0, and I hope they show up for some Mech Raids.
-As others have already reported, I got a cryptic message that a non-colonist had come down with Gutworms. There were no other pawns on the map at the time.
-I completed a Trade Request for 6 Mech Healer Serums (for 44 Pants), and just got another Trade Request for another 6 Mech Healer Serums (for 7,400 Hay, which cleaned me out); I'm extremely happy that there's a good deal of items that fix the irretrievable in 1.0...it feels like a nice give-back, and I hope it continues.
-Had an inexplicable mood problem tonight with a colonist. I can't figure out what could possibly be causing this pawn to almost break, after looking at her stats. Keep in mind, she's also a Night Owl, who is asleep during the proper hours, and had been since 11:00, in-game time (this screen shot was taken at 15:00, game-time):
(https://i.imgur.com/W5Iyzdf.png)
The graphs for tonight's play (Debug and Wealth):
(https://i.imgur.com/4NXT1so.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/f3TBtZR.png)
-
Storyteller: Cassandra
Scenario: Naked Brutality
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Tropical Swamp / Flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20
I haven't finished this playthrough yet but it's getting boring because it's too easy. I'm on day 232 with 96k wealth and 9 pawns and am starting to get all the techs needed for a starship. There are no economical or military challenges. I do have occasional mood breaks but think this is mainly due to choosing to have one very impressive barracks instead of separate sleeping rooms. Ironically there often were minor problems with food production because I can't seem to balance between over and underproduction of food crops. I also had some difficulties and deaths during caravaneering, mainly due to illness and mood breaks.
The beginning was challenging of course, but then it just became easier and easier. I suspect this is due to a combination of things. Wooden traps are overpowered in biomes with abundant wood. A few versions back, something was changed about the raid scaling and this made raids a lot easier. I built traps along the outside of my buildings and laid down a concrete path through traps, and enemies prefer to walk on concrete rather than swamp terrain. The slow movement in swamps also makes it so that approaching raiders spend more time exposed to my weapon fire. "Door cheesing" is too strong against melee enemies or enemies with slow-warmup weapons. Having a perimeter wall or surrounding all important things with walls is a strong tactic because the AI doesn't know how to handle it: the raiders will spread out and bash walls, achieving little to nothing, while they can be killed off one by one (with or without door cheese). My economy is a little too good: yayo is highly profitable with no downsides so far (shouldn't this attract drug lord pirate raids?), raiders provide a steady supply of adequate weapons, wooden traps are too good for too little resources and work, herbal medicine is enough for almost any medical problem, and raids are ineffective at reducing wealth. Components were a bottleneck until the fabrication bench was unlocked.
I try to keep all pawns on a penoxycycline every 5 days schedule because diseases can be really nasty in combination with other events or problems.
I did do a fair amount of quests on the world map, but had little motivation to do quests that involve saving a person because most randomly generated pawns are not worth saving.
I built an uranium slug turret to see how good it is and it seems very powerful: it killed a lancer, scyther, centipede coming out of a poison ship with barely a scratch.
To illustrate how easy raids are, on day 228, I got a refugee chased event and as experiment, decided to hide my pawns in the base. The raiders triggered about 8 traps, managed to kill one isolated light turret, moved on and started shooting at another turret and then fled due to losing too many people. Stripping a downed rsider gave me a good flak vest, good flak jacket, normal simple steel helmet, cloth t-shirt, good camel pants, almost all at high durability. They also left two normal machine pistoles, 3 steel spears and a steel gladius and some silver. This raid caused very little loss of wealth (94 steel, 280 wood). Without doing the math, I suspect I got more resources/wealth out of this than I lost. See the raid.jpg screenshot to see the aftermath (the attackers came from the left)
Smelting weapons is annoying and can't be automated the way I want (which is, keep a well stocked armory with weapons for different ranges and smelt any excess, beginning with the weapons of the worst quality, then of lowest durability. It would be nice to have a way to designate items in the stockpile for smelting or destruction.
Another pain point is not being able to see the terrain type while planning base or creating growing zones. It would be nice to have a view mode for terrain types similar to the view mode for roofs.
Having meat for survival rations and/or fine meals is important. I noticed that elephant tusks sell for a lot less now, and that rhinos and elephants seem to move faster. Even with that, I still think hunting rinos and elephants is overpowered. There are too many of these animals on the map in tropical swamps, and they respawn fairly quickly. Hunting an elephant takes relatively little additional time compared to hunting a monkey, but yields a large amount of food and top quality leather.
Rhino and elephant leather is almost as good as devilstrand which takes research to unlock and is a pain to grow even with permanent summer. Flak jackets are stricly worse than devilstrand dusters and only a little better than a rhino leather duster while not covering the legs. This doesn't seem right because flak jackets are harder and more expensive to make, at least with current hunting balance in an animal rich biome, and they slow people down. Part of the problem may be that we can't make a flak jacket out of better materials than the default.
The mad animal event is appropriate early in the game but later on it's not threatening and somewhere between nuisance and irrelevant. Up the difficulty of this or stop triggering it after a certain point.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Playtime: 10ish hours past 2 days
Colony age: started 4 or 5 updates ago.
Transhumanist trait:
I have a transhumanist who at the moment has 3 bionic parts.
First one was an ear, which removed the no bionic mood debuff.
Second her heart, which gave me the first mood buff saying she had 1 part and wanted more.
Third an eye and now the mood buff says 'two artificial parts are better than one, I wish I had more'
It seems the count is off on the mood buff.
Just saiyan.
Cheers :))
edit: I just gave her a 4th bionic part and the mood buff says 3 parts, so the count is really off here.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Tundra - Large Hills
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 221 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10 hours
I've noticed one possible bug during my play test, I had bought a wolf from a trader and didn't have the Handling skill required to continue its training so it's wildness reduced to zero and it left the colony, the possible bug is that I think the wolf was trapped in its previous assigned area as it refused to go outside my storage area after leaving my colony, in the end it bit one of my colonists and had to be put down.
I've been enjoying the new builds alot, I've always played rimworld at a slower pace and enjoy the survival and micromanagement aspects of the game and the new changes have made it possible to win battles without resorting to killboxes, that being said I think enemy AI needs something more unpredictable, I had came up with all sorts of defense plans for different attacks and found every fight to go down the same way, I think enemies need a little more character.
Lol. That was rude. 1.0.1982
[attachment deleted due to age]
QuoteWooden traps are overpowered in biomes with abundant wood.
I agree. The main annoyances are the mass-rebuild required when there's a manhunter pack, and the need to surround them with graves (or build roofs) to protect them from fire. Since traps are less valuable than they used to, spamming them has less impact on wealth.
Some ideas for nerfing. Add a per-pawn trap-awareness flag that has a chance to become set whenever the pawn or someone else triggers a trap. Or, set the trap-awareness flags on map entrance, with the odds based on the total number of traps (deployed or not to prevent cheese). Once a pawn is trap-aware, they never trigger traps, and they attack the traps if they get in their way. I would remove the per-rearm cost, to make them viable in all biomes again, and reduce the damage they do.
Also, it would be nice to see some blitzkrieg-style attack for the smarter raiders. They pick an attack vector and all of them blast their way in that direction. It would be more difficult to counter.
In a case where colonist is arrested and mental breaks before being 'released', there is no option to attempt arrest.
Can make the difference in situations where they break with untended disease.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): ~420
Hours played in the last 2 days: about 16
Another 2-3 years of sea ice. Wealth starts to rapidly accumulate as I get a second hydroponics basin to pump out flake finally, which initially allow me to buy out bulk traders of the much needed steel, and later various other things as well, including a nice triple rocket in case things go really bad.
Out of necessity due to lack of steel, I've ended up building a turret killbox instead of a surrounding cannon field, and recruiting only shooters and eating everyone else :) This actually is overwhelmingly better than a cannon field I'm finding. There's a bit more risk with sappers, but usually sappers just annoy you if you can't deal with them and it's not worth building and extra like 20 cannons for IMO. One such case broke into my store room and took some thrumbo horns. Bad but not exactly terrible.
Rather annoyingly for an entire year and a half my LRMS gives absolutely nothing. Then when it gives me something, it generates an ambush causing me to lose it and walk back for a week. Then 10 days later it makes a lump, which I send an attack force for just in case, and there's no ambush lol. I feel for something that uses advanced components it could be a little more reliable. While I'm forced into using it on sea ice since there's no deep drilling, I think I'll end up just using only drilling on any other map, since I think my previous experiences were just good luck.
Starting on year 7, and getting bionic warriors, I can see why people favor this route more than mass colonists and turrets: The raid sizes are considerably lower than on a normal fort, and my bio-warriors are excellent. One of my dudes has 5.25 running speed, a charge lance, full marine armor, 2 bionic eyes, and is trigger happy. Needless to say, she kicks ass.
Mine fields are absolutely excellent at completely wrecking manhunting swarms. Before decent armor, these are an absolute bane on sea ice. However, while the 20 snow-hares nearly killed my fort off in year 2, a swarm of cats later on never even got to my doorstep, and I have no issue fighting 2-3 thurmbos even if they don't bunch up. IMO this is as it should be: giant swarms of dumb things shouldn't have to be fought if you have proper defenses.
Because I'm more reliant on actual shooters rather than my mass of turrets, I've been using drug policies to keep their mood up. Psychite tea every other day at 45 mood, alcohol every day at 35 mood, and smokeleaf every day at 25 mood almost completely eliminates all mental breaks. I had one tantrum during a psychic drone in all this time. This is a lot less fun than the sheer chaos I'm used to, but it feels necessary.
Cannibals are absolutely, ludicrously, insanely, why on earth are this good, overpowered. If you restrict them to not be allowed to enter the main food stores, and give them a nutrient paste machine filled with human meat, and give them a shirt and pants of human skin, you're looking at the equivalent of lavish meals every day with no food poisoning and no cooking, and a psychic emanator. Oh and essentially free food and leather. Oh and your other colonists get -6 mood every now and then after a raid. Yeah that's just silly.
Raids haven't been tooooo eventful. One of my guys gets kidnapped when I accidentally find out he was mining a meteor during the haywire drop pod raid. Another got storytold by a storytelling lance as I rush to activate my turrets during a mechanoid drop pod event near my outside beacon. This happened in the span of like 4 days which is where that massive spike down in adaptation is from.
One rather amusing case was a very randy event. One raid struck and then immediately, probably withing the span of in game 15 minutes, a sapper raid from a different faction happened. They attacked each other, the regular raids won, and the proceeded to chase the fleeing sapper that were running off the map. Just a hilarious anecdote.
Edit: Arg. No wonder I keep accidentally entering god mode whenever I dev mode for the debug graphs. My screenshot key is ; >.>
Also, I think sea ice might be a little easier than in past iterations: Slag chunks giving double steel has a huge consequence on this biome, as nearly all of your early steel is coming from cargo pod slag.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 02, 2018, 06:24:46 AM
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 432 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
v.1982
Game Notes/Graphs:
-I hope I didn't vent too hard about the Infestations earlier; that one genuinely threw me for a loop, though. I'm doing my best to report gameplay experiences, the good and the bad, and that one was...really, really bad. :)
-Had Friendlies intervene in a Siege for the first time; they wiped out the Pirates completely. It was very enjoyable to watch, and it was a big help. I remember seeing something similar in B18 on one legendary occasion (which I'll have to relate somewhere else, but it was one of the most memorable moments I've ever seen in the game). The Friendlies are a lot stronger in 1.0, and I hope they show up for some Mech Raids.
-As others have already reported, I got a cryptic message that a non-colonist had come down with Gutworms. There were no other pawns on the map at the time.
-I completed a Trade Request for 6 Mech Healer Serums (for 44 Pants), and just got another Trade Request for another 6 Mech Healer Serums (for 7,400 Hay, which cleaned me out); I'm extremely happy that there's a good deal of items that fix the irretrievable in 1.0...it feels like a nice give-back, and I hope it continues.
-Had an inexplicable mood problem tonight with a colonist. I can't figure out what could possibly be causing this pawn to almost break, after looking at her stats. Keep in mind, she's also a Night Owl, who is asleep during the proper hours, and had been since 11:00, in-game time (this screen shot was taken at 15:00, game-time):
(https://i.imgur.com/W5Iyzdf.png)
The graphs for tonight's play (Debug and Wealth):
(https://i.imgur.com/4NXT1so.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/f3TBtZR.png)
-
Regarding the first screenshot, moods don't change when pawns are asleep. The white arrow indicates where the mood will slowly rise/fall to when the pawn is awake.
The night owl trait only gives a mood boost when the pawn is awake at night, not when sleeping during the day. The mood boost would be useless when a pawn is sleeping anyway.
Current Build
Randy Merciless Permadeath
Naked Brutality (Tribal Start)
Had a weird thing happen - One colonist had the Run Wild Mental Break. I arrested him before he could get too far, and now I have a wild man I can both tame and/or recruit. Probably not intended, see screenshot below.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Current Build
Cassandra Rough
Tribal
I have to say, I am very much not a fan of the now silent infections, and breakdown indicators.
I had an infection I wasn't even aware of until I got a "medical emergency" warning. Now, this was not an issue, because the colonist was being auto tended, and was ahead of the infection, in immunity.
But I do have two colonists with destroyed kidneys. When they get sick, I have to enable using my very small stock of standard medicine, as opposed to herbals which I have in abundance at the moment, to ensure that they don't die. If this had been one of those two, I may very well have lost them.
As to the silent breakdowns...early on especially, I keep a vague track in my mind of about where I stand with components. When a breakdown message occurs, I can keep that in mind. As it stands now, I just see an undefined drop in my component stock. Now, of course, I know why at this point, and it's not like I can't just look and see what I have in the stocks. But it's annoying, and for a new player who didn't realize what was going on, or what the heck a breakdown was, this would be unreasonably confusing, I think.
Additionally, warnings about breakdowns give me a vague idea about how often they occur. I've never been sure if they ramp up based on having more equipment running in the colony (everything has a small chance to breakdown), or if it is just a defined event that occurs occasionally (just a percent chance to occur, unrelated to numbers of equipment in the colony), but having at least an anecdotal idea, based on the alerts, of how many break downs I'm experiencing, has always seemed useful to me.
Was messing with cover/LOS last night.
A. Open doors provide 75% cover (so does being behind a wall section). They also slow down pawns passing through the square - at least the stone ones do - even if they are left open (i am not sure if that is intended or not). IE, a pawn in a doorway with an open door in front of them gets 75% cover compared to a pawn in a door with a sandbag, which gets 65% cover.
B. At some ranges AND some diagonal angles, two different squares provide cover. It is not consistent though, so I'd suggest you play with you pawns and point guns at each other and figure it out. Basically, it looks like a ray is traced to the target and if it goes through two squares (both squares must be directly next to the pawn) the second square has a reduced effect. Net, the best I have managed is a 79%% cover factor.
C. If you put a pawn with a shield in that much cover it gets silly. I have been messing with shield/frag pawns that I force fire at max range towards the enemy approach.
Some what related, I looked at wall "wealth" values and beauty values. Smoothed walls sit a 15-20s ea and give 1 beauty, (unless marble which is 2 beauty and 25s). A normal marble wall, which gives 1 beauty, is under 8s. Smoothed floors are clearly a win - no wealth. Smoothed walls .... not so much. Much better to buy sculpture from the towns, much less make them yourself. Wall values are not consistent either - hp vs time to build vs wealth is wonky.
Wooden Large Sculpture, Good - 200 beauty/245s = .81s per beauty
The values for walls are strange when you compare them; 500s is 1 "chain shotgun, normal" or 63.13 granite wall sections or 25 smoothed granite or 12.09 granite doors OR 555.555 granite block (which sells for much more then then the gun, because .... reasons ...) which will make 111.111 granite wall sections or 22.222 granite doors....
It does illustrate that once you have a decked pawn with a charge lance etc spending a bit on a few walls and doors to make them an optimal fighting position is a very cheap force multiplier. Probably better math then marine armor, honestly.
Add: If I get the time tonight I may make some screenshots to illustrate the "zones" etc.
Quote from: Awe on August 02, 2018, 09:35:19 AM
Lol. That was rude. 1.0.1982
Yeah, I just came to post the same bug. Also a pawn in a caravan.
Maybe it's just her band's name.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Just Launched this morning, and am no longer getting notifications when people get infections (which is extra punishing on naked start). I've also been getting yellow warning of so-and-so got disease (flu, mechanites etc.) and the jump to is not clickable and then I'll realise that "so-and-so" is not one of my colonists, nor animals, and not even someone on the map.
A little problem which i noticed is:
Now you can see "What will the other settlement buy". Which is nice.
https://i.imgur.com/47HYqbq.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/47HYqbq.jpg)
I can sell Simple Meals, cool. I am on my way.
https://i.imgur.com/By3muMH.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/By3muMH.jpg)
But...
https://i.imgur.com/6YPrFiX.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/6YPrFiX.jpg)
I cannot sell them. Its not listened, even not at the end of the list like "Will not Buy".
This is a problem in my opinion.
Quote from: Toast on August 02, 2018, 12:47:41 AM
It seems that pawns, both human and animal, who are not members of your colony no longer get descriptions of their current activity (e.g. "attacking Joe Blow," "consuming all your goddamn healroot"). I don't know if this is intended or not, but I hate it. I want to know whether a running animal is trying to eat something of mine so I can shut the door, or whether a raider is about to path into a trap due to his target so I can focus fire on someone else.
Personally i disagree. This is a very good change, we are not supposed to know the ennemy's strategy...
Quote from: alligator76 on August 02, 2018, 01:18:55 PM
Quote from: Toast on August 02, 2018, 12:47:41 AM
It seems that pawns, both human and animal, who are not members of your colony no longer get descriptions of their current activity (e.g. "attacking Joe Blow," "consuming all your goddamn healroot"). I don't know if this is intended or not, but I hate it. I want to know whether a running animal is trying to eat something of mine so I can shut the door, or whether a raider is about to path into a trap due to his target so I can focus fire on someone else.
Personally i disagree. This is a very good change, we are not supposed to know the ennemy's strategy...
I agree with alligator76. You should not be able to perfectly know what the enemy is doing.
You should have to make a tactical decision based on what you
think they are doing.
New event idea:
Randy drops a giant statue with extreme wealth value that you have to race over and laboriously disassemble before your next raid comes.
For extra meme credit, it could be a statue of a giant pile of guns and corpses which disassembles into, you guessed it, a giant pile of guns and corpses!
I learned today the hard way I should be shelling out for armor: skimped on flak pants figuring vests were enough, guy lost his leg to a single shot from a charge lance (which honestly probably would have gone through the flak pants ~80% of the time anyway but yea...).
So, some things as I get antiquated with prosthesis and new stuff:
- The description for prosthetic leg has a typo: says it lacks a "neutral interface", not neural.
- I'm guessing this is an oversight on the descriptions: body purist says they don't like "artificial body parts", yet this guy who is a purist is okay with his simple prosthetic, so maybe the description should be changed to better reflect that it's high-tech/upgraded body parts they dislike (looks to me like it was changed from bionic because of the archotech).
- I haven't seen it in awhile so I can't confirm but I'm guessing Transhumanists aren't into wooden legs and such, on the same vein; old prostophile trait said they "dream of going bionic" and I don't recall seeing that part, probably for same reason of the archotechs.
- While it's cool how the bionics and archotechs explain why the body parts can heal, simple prosthetic (and I presume even the wooden stuff) also heal; over sight or what? Doesn't make much sense to explain how bionics can heal only to have it not matter other than pure flavor; do the bionics+ heal faster or something?
- Maybe it would be a good idea to have the simpler prosthesis not heal, but rather require you attach an entire new one? It's certainly doable now that we can build them, but it's probably the kind of change that adds nothing fun, just more work, resource costs, and frustration. Figured I'd throw it out there at least.
-I'm guessing having a bionic stomach will actually make the pawn eat faster, have yet to install one (I think I have one lying around). It's description seems to suggest it allows the human to eat things normally can't (hay grass?), does it? It would be cool if it did something like that, or maybe reduced food poisoning chance, but that might be unbalanced.
-Have stomach's been changed to be vital organs now? I extracted a bionic from a prisoner and he died, and I also just witnessed someone die from a shredded stomach but not-completely-destroyed torso (and no other harm) from an HE mortar, so it appears so. Kind of weird, I mean you *can* live without a stomach, but I suppose balance it wise it works because we can replace it now. (p.s., do we have bionic kidneys or livers yet? :p)
-Similar question: as far as I can tell, all the aspects that involve hearing are capped at 100%, so a bionic ear's greater than 100% effectiveness doesn't seem as helpful as other bionics. Suppose it's good if both ears are damaged, it would make up for more. Maybe hearing *shouldn't* be capped for social interaction, with enhanced hearing they can make out subtle tone differences and such an augmented human couldn't XD. Maybe hearing could also factor into hunter stealth stat (I really like the stealth stat btw, adds some nice flavor and risk reduction for high skill), as they can better mask their own sounds and/or track without having to expose themselves to see or something (I do recall the bionic ear's description saying something about being able to hear a crouching cat :p).
@copperwire Statue should spit out firefoam too so you can't just burn it. I recently converted several of my defense setups to fully fireproofed so I can just fumigate the thing. Very handy with 70++ raiders and guns, though make sure to haul all the grenades out as they do significant damage to walls upon fire induced detonation.
I am glad with silent infection notification. Its very good punishment of people actively putting their pawns in harms way. As someone who ethically disposes of merciless max point mech raids without moving my colonists I think everyone should be incentivized to conform to my playstyle.
Quote from: Nailkita on August 02, 2018, 12:51:18 PM
Just Launched this morning, and am no longer getting notifications when people get infections (which is extra punishing on naked start). I've also been getting yellow warning of so-and-so got disease (flu, mechanites etc.) and the jump to is not clickable and then I'll realise that "so-and-so" is not one of my colonists, nor animals, and not even someone on the map.
Please add some more info. Just fill this in:
Quote
Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome/hilliness:
Commitment mode:
Current colony age:
Hours played in the last 2 days:
Complete mod list:
Hey Tynan, I noticed over the last week or so of play that when doing caravan missions such as outpost raids and stash recovery the safest course of action is typically to set up my pawns at max range and shoot out the doors before proceeding. Doors of all types go down pretty quickly to focused shooting. So why don't raiders ever blast down doors from afar? It seems the only enemy type that does so are the designated sapper/grenadier raiders. A partial fix to door cheesing strats might be to have raiders sometimes focus down doors (with concentrated fire rather than a single guy impotently punching the structure), particularly when there are no colonists in sight.
Quote from: MoronicCinamun on August 02, 2018, 01:55:23 PM
I learned today the hard way I should be shelling out for armor: skimped on flak pants figuring vests were enough, guy lost his leg to a single shot from a charge lance (which honestly probably would have gone through the flak pants ~80% of the time anyway but yea...).
So, some things as I get antiquated with prosthesis and new stuff:
- The description for prosthetic leg has a typo: says it lacks a "neutral interface", not neural.
- I'm guessing this is an oversight on the descriptions: body purist says they don't like "artificial body parts", yet this guy who is a purist is okay with his simple prosthetic, so maybe the description should be changed to better reflect that it's high-tech/upgraded body parts they dislike (looks to me like it was changed from bionic because of the archotech).
- I haven't seen it in awhile so I can't confirm but I'm guessing Transhumanists aren't into wooden legs and such, on the same vein; old prostophile trait said they "dream of going bionic" and I don't recall seeing that part, probably for same reason of the archotechs.
- While it's cool how the bionics and archotechs explain why the body parts can heal, simple prosthetic (and I presume even the wooden stuff) also heal; over sight or what? Doesn't make much sense to explain how bionics can heal only to have it not matter other than pure flavor; do the bionics+ heal faster or something?
- Maybe it would be a good idea to have the simpler prosthesis not heal, but rather require you attach an entire new one? It's certainly doable now that we can build them, but it's probably the kind of change that adds nothing fun, just more work, resource costs, and frustration. Figured I'd throw it out there at least.
-I'm guessing having a bionic stomach will actually make the pawn eat faster, have yet to install one (I think I have one lying around). It's description seems to suggest it allows the human to eat things normally can't (hay grass?), does it? It would be cool if it did something like that, or maybe reduced food poisoning chance, but that might be unbalanced.
-Have stomach's been changed to be vital organs now? I extracted a bionic from a prisoner and he died, and I also just witnessed someone die from a shredded stomach but not-completely-destroyed torso (and no other harm) from an HE mortar, so it appears so. Kind of weird, I mean you *can* live without a stomach, but I suppose balance it wise it works because we can replace it now. (p.s., do we have bionic kidneys or livers yet? :p)
-Similar question: as far as I can tell, all the aspects that involve hearing are capped at 100%, so a bionic ear's greater than 100% effectiveness doesn't seem as helpful as other bionics. Suppose it's good if both ears are damaged, it would make up for more. Maybe hearing *shouldn't* be capped for social interaction, with enhanced hearing they can make out subtle tone differences and such an augmented human couldn't XD. Maybe hearing could also factor into hunter stealth stat (I really like the stealth stat btw, adds some nice flavor and risk reduction for high skill), as they can better mask their own sounds and/or track without having to expose themselves to see or something (I do recall the bionic ear's description saying something about being able to hear a crouching cat :p).
Clance renders normal flak pants completely useless since it has higher arpen than the 40% pants give you.
Arpen applies fully against each layer.
For some reason, there is a large misperception in the community that things like dstrand and heavy fur dusters actually matter. They don't, at least not against the one shot threats. And they provide marginal protection against everything else.
I assume they either don't care to know how the armor system math, didn't care to see how effective HP scales with armor values, don't know how arpen works, or some combination of the above.
For reference, going from 75->100 eff armor provides an 7.5x higher EHP increase than going from 0->25.
Since mitigation is all or nothing (unlike b18) low armor values don't even have the consolation of altering one shot breakpoints for destroying body parts.
Has anyone tried IED chains and high value objects left in the open? Me thinks that needs tested.
Quote from: bbqftw on August 02, 2018, 02:22:30 PM
For some reason, there is a large misperception in the community that things like dstrand and heavy fur dusters actually matter. They don't, at least not against the one shot threats. And they provide marginal protection against everything else.
I assume they either don't care to know how the armor system math, didn't care to see how effective HP scales with armor values, don't know how arpen works, or some combination of the above.
It is really annoying how often you say that, even more because it is wrong and you think you know it better. At least this time you included a condition with oneshot threats, but even there dusters are still useful and secondly no one ever said it should only be about these attacks.
An excellent panthera fur duster has over 36% sharp armor and is nothing special at all. While it does nothing against charge lances, even for weapons like an LMG it gives an additional 10% chance to block the damage completely and another 10% for mitigated half blunt damage.
Legendary bearskil duster: 60%, devilstand: 66%, ... my masterwork thrumbofur ones have over 90%. All these also protect against change lances and the better ones to a quite nice percentage.
And even normal dusters like a good plainleather duster gives 28% sharp armor, which gives additional protection to most or all of the weapons raiders have early- and midgame. Like 7% to block a pump shotgun shot or 0.5% to block a bolt-action rifle shot (Yes, this is also not useless). Really good ones easily have above 60% sharp armor and can go up to 108%. No idea how you think this is a "marginal protection". Like a 47% additional chance to block a minigun shot sure is not marginal.
Dusters of cause have a lower armor value than a flak vest. But you wear both and get extra resistance that way. And they also protect a way larger part of the body.
started a run in .1978, now it's 7 years in & i've got ~20 healer serums from item stashes, 4 techprofs, 1 power armor, a few masterwork weapons, but never saw a single resurrect & power claw, the only archotech parts i got were 2 legs, 1 arm
not like i need a resurrect serum though, 7 years in, current pop count 32, no colonist died the whole game
p.s: Randy - Rough - Mountain - Temperate Forest - Perm. Summer
the revert of trade ship makes dumping materials impossible, now my base's floating in leather, fur, wool, flak vests, flak pants, simple helmets, dusters, & all kind of apparels+weapons :| 6 full trade beacon stockpiles waiting to be freed up
It looks like you cannot currently reinstall chairs in front of a workbench that a pawn is already sitting at. Not the biggest problem in the world but I'm pretty sure you used to be able to do this.
Quote from: erdrik on August 02, 2018, 01:35:28 PM
Quote from: alligator76 on August 02, 2018, 01:18:55 PM
Quote from: Toast on August 02, 2018, 12:47:41 AM
It seems that pawns, both human and animal, who are not members of your colony no longer get descriptions of their current activity (e.g. "attacking Joe Blow," "consuming all your goddamn healroot"). I don't know if this is intended or not, but I hate it. I want to know whether a running animal is trying to eat something of mine so I can shut the door, or whether a raider is about to path into a trap due to his target so I can focus fire on someone else.
Personally i disagree. This is a very good change, we are not supposed to know the ennemy's strategy...
I agree with alligator76. You should not be able to perfectly know what the enemy is doing.
You should have to make a tactical decision based on what you think they are doing.
Rimworld is in almost all aspects a "perfect information" game, meaning you can see all enemies wherever they spawn on the map even if your pawns are all sleeping, blind, and deaf, there is no "stealth," you are told whether raiders are "clever" or not, etc. (The only exception I can think of is Ancient Dangers.) This would be a departure from that longstanding model. It also affects pawns who are not enemies (aforementioned hungry animals, traders, passersby) meaning it limits your ability to react to actions that are not combat-related at all.
Quote from: bbqftw on August 02, 2018, 02:22:30 PM
Clance renders normal flak pants completely useless since it has higher arpen than the 40% pants give you.
Arpen applies fully against each layer.
For some reason, there is a large misperception in the community that things like dstrand and heavy fur dusters actually matter. They don't, at least not against the one shot threats. And they provide marginal protection against everything else.
I assume they either don't care to know how the armor system math, didn't care to see how effective HP scales with armor values, don't know how arpen works, or some combination of the above.
For reference, going from 75->100 eff armor provides an 7.5x higher EHP increase than going from 0->25.
Since mitigation is all or nothing (unlike b18) low armor values don't even have the consolation of altering one shot breakpoints for destroying body parts.
If your primary concern is "Story Lances", BA/Sniper hits to the brain, and other such threats, shield belts and significant cover are much better answers then any armor in the game.
Besides Thrumbo Fur, Flak Vests, and Marine Armor, current version, armor is a joke for endgame, that is true. Outside of endgame, it isn't useless:
EX: a Heavy Fur Duster, EX (90%) at 48.6% sharp (450s)
A Labrador Retriever has 17% melee AP. Squirrels have 6.5% melee AP. If you get bit/scratched 3 times, ~once it should help a bit against smaller animals. Given how that tends to go, that means your going to heal a bit faster, more often then not, which isn't useless, but it is unlikely to save a Pawn.
A Pasteel Longsword has 40% melee AP. That means your duster matters about 1 in 12 hits, and most hits will take a limb off. A Charge Lance has 45% AP ... which means 1 in 33 hits ... useless.
My conclusion with "medium" armor is you might as well use it early game, but there is a point you should swap it all for cloth and sell it because it becomes wealth bloat.
450s = 56.8 sections of granite wall...
Quote from: Lanilor on August 02, 2018, 03:17:09 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on August 02, 2018, 02:22:30 PM
For some reason, there is a large misperception in the community that things like dstrand and heavy fur dusters actually matter. They don't, at least not against the one shot threats. And they provide marginal protection against everything else.
I assume they either don't care to know how the armor system math, didn't care to see how effective HP scales with armor values, don't know how arpen works, or some combination of the above.
It is really annoying how often you say that, even more because it is wrong and you think you know it better. At least this time you included a condition with oneshot threats, but even there dusters are still useful and secondly no one ever said it should only be about these attacks.
An excellent panthera fur duster has over 36% sharp armor and is nothing special at all. While it does nothing against charge lances, even for weapons like an LMG it gives an additional 10% chance to block the damage completely and another 10% for mitigated half blunt damage.
Legendary bearskil duster: 60%, devilstand: 66%, ... my masterwork thrumbofur ones have over 90%. All these also protect against change lances and the better ones to a quite nice percentage.
And even normal dusters like a good plainleather duster gives 28% sharp armor, which gives additional protection to most or all of the weapons raiders have early- and midgame. Like 7% to block a pump shotgun shot or 0.5% to block a bolt-action rifle shot (Yes, this is also not useless). Really good ones easily have above 60% sharp armor and can go up to 108%. No idea how you think this is a "marginal protection". Like a 47% additional chance to block a minigun shot sure is not marginal.
Dusters of cause have a lower armor value than a flak vest. But you wear both and get extra resistance that way. And they also protect a way larger part of the body.
this is the problem with most in this community, they do not understand opportunity cost.
Of course a legendary X is better than nothing, but you are sacrificing what to do this? Inspirations are not unlimited. Your resources are not unlimited. Every choice you make comes at cost to something else.
You are also mentioning excellents as your baseline. That is pretty telling in itself. If I used excellent flak vests EHP multiplier then the numbers look even more comical.
I also notice you have no argument that regarding the armor effectiveness heavily supralinear scaling (it scales harder than in b18). It is a shame. But many are like this.
I make thrumbofur dusters. Of course
I would use a better over worse material. Excellent 71% sharps protection isn't nothing. But I am not under the delusion that this is significantly impacting my game outcomes. And if I was spamming dusters trying to get high qualities, when I don't have consistently high quality flak vests, than I am making an egregious mistake with my pawns time.
Quote from: bbqftw on August 02, 2018, 03:56:59 PM
You are also mentioning excellents as your baseline. That is pretty telling in itself. If I used excellent flak vests EHP multiplier then the numbers look even more comical.
Actually this is very comical and ironic! As you go higher in armour, each point of armour is worth more. But higher armour also means more bonus points for quality! So quality is DOUBLE MORE BETTER for bigger points! Should have compared with normal!!! Don't waste your inspiration on bearskin duster LOL
Maybe there is alternate universe out there of unlucky tailors that just happen to botch every flak vest they touch. In such a case insane dusters to 100 sharps is fair.
In any case, I learned that I don't live up to my own standards in not spamming flak vests.
On the other hand in my last 4 years on merciless I've had a lancer shoot at me precisely once, so maybe my efforts were better invested in crematoria and golden sculptures.
Thrombo Fur Duster at 1450s = about 200 wall sections. That's a base.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Started in Temperate Forest, but I didn't stay long
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: 104 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 15 or so?
No Mods
Just had my naked brutality pawn escape the planet on day 104. I began by crafting a short bow and killing enough alpacas to make a shirt and pants, then started popping ancient dangers. The first one I opened had 3 centipedes, so I had to quickly abandon my starting map. I then got about 3 maps in a row with no dangers before I came on a good one. It also had enough alpacas for me to finish a duster and cowboy hat, and so I was set for summer. I survived mostly by hunting 0% chance to fight back animals while I trapped up the ancient danger.
After popping it open, a lancer's shot missed me and hit the cryopod, triggering it. This woke up the inhabitants who battled the mechs. The mechs won, but narrowly, with 1 lancer standing. One of the ancient solders dropped a machine pistol near the exit and I used it to down the lancer with hit and runs breaking LoS because it refused to be kited outside into traps. The lancer scored a headshot on me which damaged an eye down to 7/10. I was still at something like 96% vision so it wasn't a big deal but it did mean a permanent -5 pain mood debuff.
The danger had a Legendary suit of Power Armor which I took, along with a normal quality assault rifle off one of the soldiers. I also got some loot to sell with Luciferium and assorted weapons. I went to the nearest neutral outlander base and bought an excellent power armor helmet and 40 cloth for a bedroll.
At this point I paused to research Pemmican which took awhile as my starting pawn had 0 research. In retrospect, this was unnecessary as the ship was at the north pole anyway, so food spoilage wasn't going to be a concern. Once done, I used berries plus hunting to make as much pemmican as I could carry and heading to the ship. I was low on food so I tried to stop to hunt some but it was rough with mostly only snowhares. It wasn't really efficient so I pushed on and got to the ship.
The ship was mostly surrounded on 3 sides by rock, which was nice. I dissambled the extra cryopods as well as one of the engines both for steel and components but mostly to reduce the value. Even with legendary power armor I was still at extremely low expectations while on the road since I had basically nothing else but a normal bedroll and food. On the ship mod I was at Low expectations and I was concerned I was going to get sappers and mech drops. I caravaned out and abandoned all the advanced components but I was still at about 45k wealth. Knowing I couldn't get below 20k anyway and concerned about my food supply I just started it up.
Raids were usually 1 mech, 2 raiders, or 3 melee raiders which wasn't a problem to handle. I never got sappers or pod drops, always normal raids. The biggest issue came when I got an escape pod event that had my pawn's brother. There were 6 enemies on the map from a double raid within an hour of eachother and there was just no way to kill them and get to him before hypotherma killed him. This handed me a very nice -14 mood buff for the rest of the adventure. Thankfully, I had smoothed out the walls and floors and made a room that was considered somewhat impressive. That let me stack Somewhat impressive bedroom, dining room, and rec room for +12 and canceled it out. The reactor of the ship was outputting 1000w so I used that for heaters to avoid the slept in the cold debuff.
I was concerned I'd have to go cannibal to survive long enough as I didn't have the food to last 15 days. I was saved when a Thumbo came onto the map. I triggered him into Manhunter and let him and the next group of pirates take care of themselves. Even only using a butchering spot, he gave 200+ meat. I made a stove from the ship parts and powered it off the ship reactor to cook and I was set.
To keep from being raided while low on rest, I set my pawn's schedule to all rest. They would first rest whenever below 75% rest, otherwise they would do recreation when below about 90%, and finally do work. I didn't realize pawns set to rest or recreation would do other things, but apparently they do if the primary task is already done.
All in all, a pretty interesting experience. I think I'm going to try it again on Extreme and see how it plays out.
Not posting graphs because I kept moving to different maps and abandoning so all I have is the space ship map graph which probably isn't all that useful.
Props on making NB AD opening work post nerf! That is really impressive.
The mood pressure on merciless is a lot more brutal against AD opening since there is a lot of sleeping on ground and lack of recreationing. And this was back when the chance of approachable AD was higher.
Lot of major breaks when I tried it, though I didn't commit fully to nomadic and was relying on rescue rolls.
Quote from: Firestonezz on August 02, 2018, 10:24:41 AM
Regarding the first screenshot, moods don't change when pawns are asleep. The white arrow indicates where the mood will slowly rise/fall to when the pawn is awake.
The night owl trait only gives a mood boost when the pawn is awake at night, not when sleeping during the day. The mood boost would be useless when a pawn is sleeping anyway.
My concern is this: the pawn in question wasn't close to breaking before they went to bed. I knew from experience that there's no mood buff for being asleep during the daytime. This was a screen capture taken at the moment that the "Extreme Break Risk" message came up...it wasn't present before, and seemingly materialized from out of nowhere.
When I checked all of the mood buff and debuffs and did the simple math, I was coming out with a net mood buff of +6, with all other meters (except for beauty) within normal range. If this colonist went to bed without a break risk, and the meters are accurate, this colonists shouldn't be anywhere near a Break Risk.
I've been trying to keep a particular eye on Mental Break patterns over the last few days, and this one seemed off to me, which is why I posted it for examination. It's one that I still can't figure out.
Was he injured? I think "resting" pawns count mood while in a bed while sleeping pawns do not.
Yo Tynan, please add the possibility of dogs "cleaning" vomit spontaneously :)
Also the "crop blight" event still sucks. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the occasional "player has to go look for a thing" in builder games, the Anno games had you having to zoom in on your people to spot spies etc occasionally and it was a great way to get the player a little more involved with the otherwise-decorative greebles of the game. But in Rimworld it just turns into "click with mouse then press the Cut hotkey 30 times" which isn't fun or particularly engaging the nineteenth time you have to do it. Colonists should merely automatically tend to the crops.
One issue I have to the change with the HUNT work calculation is Brawlers. Both of my brawlers are terrible shots but passionate about animals. So on the Work tab, it shows they have a passion for hunting even though they would be unhappy if I had them do it.
Quote from: MajorFordson on August 02, 2018, 08:10:35 PM
Also the "crop blight" event still sucks. .... But in Rimworld it just turns into "click with mouse then press the Cut hotkey 30 times" which isn't fun or particularly engaging the nineteenth time you have to do it. Colonists should merely automatically tend to the crops.
I don't think they should automatically tend to blighted crops. That would just turn it into an ignore-able event. I think instead blighted crops should count differently than normal crops in regards to double-click selection. Double click a blighted crop, select all blighted crops. Double click a non-blighted crop, select all non-blighted crops.
That way the player is still involved, but it doesn't turn into a 3 minute click session.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest - Small Hills
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 165 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4+
Complete mod list: None
I started this game about a month ago. These notes are compiled from the last week or so:
Major issues:
#1 Spike Traps don't save Auto Rearm setting (or perhaps they don't load the setting)
#2 I had a drug addict decide to punch a turret during a mental break. Received an error message: Stumpy tried to path while downed. curJob LayDown A = Thing_Bed
Quality of Life Suggestions
#1 Digging percentage goes down with progress. Feels strange.
#2 Certain long tasks would be nice to show in the pawn's info box. You show repair as a %. Why not building? Mining? Research?
#3 You show Building (task). Why not Researching (project)?
#4 I think you changed hunting recently. I always wondered why they decide to take the most difficult show possible. Why can't I attack the bunny with my pistol from short range?
#5 Shouldn't Rearm Spike Traps now be Rebuild Spike Traps?
#6 Some wounds need tending to over time. I wonder if I should be able to rebandage a crappy tend after a while.
#7 Many context menus, especially Bills, had the "i" button immediately after the name. You've right-justified these buttons in other menus. I think it would be more consistent and a friendlier interface to right-justify them in the context menus so I stop clicking info when I meant to click on the item.
#8 You can't interact with someone being rescued. It would be nice to at least be able to see their Health tab.
#9 I have a female pirate (prisoner) named Dennis (obligatory Monty Python reference: He may not be old, but I'm pretty sure that's more commonly a dude's name)
#10 Outline fonts are your friends. You've got a lovely black border to the icons. (I love the new icons btw). Put a black outline around text to really make it pop. It'll work a lot better than the grey rectangles.
I need to figure out how to insert an image, but my Adaption graph is pretty much my EKG. Since about day 40 it's all flatlines. Pop intent x10 Days: -0.63, Pop recovery: Days 19.75, Recovery: 44.01, Fun Points /10: 53.1
Keep up the amazing work!
Quote from: Starbug3D on August 02, 2018, 08:44:27 PM
I need to figure out how to insert an image
Once you have the image on your computer, click "attachments and other options" below your post, then the "Browse" button under "Attach."
Images have to be under 600k. I like to trim them as small as is reasonable and even copy/paste all graphs into one image.
Found a bug a few versions ago and still appears to be an issue. If I have a floor ordered but not done and a pot with a plant on the unfinished spot the colonists will continually plant and cut the plant and the floor never gets finished. I have to re-install the pot somewhere else to get the floor done.
Hopefully this is enough info.
- tolakram
Quote from: Greep on August 02, 2018, 07:09:29 PM
Was he injured? I think "resting" pawns count mood while in a bed while sleeping pawns do not.
No. Perfect health, with no permanent injuries.
Quote from: MajorFordson on August 02, 2018, 08:10:35 PM
Yo Tynan, please add the possibility of dogs "cleaning" vomit spontaneously :)
This is hilarious. And accurate.
In the latest version, auto-rearm still doesn't work outside the home area.
ME: Anyway, don't you think that the monkey meat on Level 4... looks a little too similar to the pemmican on Level 6? Might be a little too confusing.
Tynan: Well, that's an interesting theory, Jstank. But redesigning all those sprites at this stage would be way too expensive.
ME: I agree. But what if you just rendered them a different color? You know, that would be cheap and quick.
Tynan- Leave the decisions to me, Jstank. There's a reason why I'm the creator of Rimworld and you're just a tester.
I just- Eject.......{Tynan pushes a button and ejects Jstank from room}
Tynan to himself: He had a good idea Shut up. Mind your own business!
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 453 days (note: spanned over different updates)
Hours played in the last 2 days: 6+
Complete mod list: None
I sorry if I didn't check very well if this has already been found, but I noticed that after the update on Aug 1st it's seems like I have a hard time getting the deep drill to get re-located anymore. I end up having to get them to put it into storage and then back out again. Not sure if that was intended, but they use to just move it eventually.
Quote from: erdrik on August 02, 2018, 08:39:21 PM
I don't think they should automatically tend to blighted crops. That would just turn it into an ignore-able event.
Couldn't you say the same for mechanical breakdown events, or fires?
I'd like to see some more "player has to find it" events (animal madness? one of your animals has a brain worm, take a look at them all to find the one spinning in circles/attacking a wall/acting odd etc.) but the blight isn't one of them...
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest - Mountainous
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: 5 days
Complete mod list: None
A visitor that paths into an insect nest (either coming or going) in a cave on a hilly map will aggro all of the bugs to attack your colony, no matter how far your colony is away from said nest.
Just had a visitor come to my colony. On his way out he stumbled into an insect nest at the edge of the map. Three megaspiders proceeded to travel all of the way across the map to murder my colony. Man in black showed up and the bugs killed him too. Colony lost.
Quote from: erdrik on August 02, 2018, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: MajorFordson on August 02, 2018, 08:10:35 PM
Also the "crop blight" event still sucks. .... But in Rimworld it just turns into "click with mouse then press the Cut hotkey 30 times" which isn't fun or particularly engaging the nineteenth time you have to do it. Colonists should merely automatically tend to the crops.
I don't think they should automatically tend to blighted crops. That would just turn it into an ignore-able event. I think instead blighted crops should count differently than normal crops in regards to double-click selection. Double click a blighted crop, select all blighted crops. Double click a non-blighted crop, select all non-blighted crops.
That way the player is still involved, but it doesn't turn into a 3 minute click session.
I think neither automatic or not, I think the problem would be more the fact that blight is scaled by event, but doesn't interact in any way with crops.
Blight will hit all crops, so you cannot protect with differnt plants.
Blight will hit multiple fields or one big field in the same way, so seperating doesn't matter
Blight will grow as slowly as it doesn't matter if you cut it today or tomorrow.
So said, blight should interact more with plants and layout. If that given It doesn't matter a lot if they are automatic or not as they ain't a real threat and you cannot protect yourself in any way anyway.
Quote from: Bolgfred on August 03, 2018, 02:54:43 AM
Quote from: erdrik on August 02, 2018, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: MajorFordson on August 02, 2018, 08:10:35 PM
Also the "crop blight" event still sucks. .... But in Rimworld it just turns into "click with mouse then press the Cut hotkey 30 times" which isn't fun or particularly engaging the nineteenth time you have to do it. Colonists should merely automatically tend to the crops.
I don't think they should automatically tend to blighted crops. That would just turn it into an ignore-able event. I think instead blighted crops should count differently than normal crops in regards to double-click selection. Double click a blighted crop, select all blighted crops. Double click a non-blighted crop, select all non-blighted crops.
That way the player is still involved, but it doesn't turn into a 3 minute click session.
I think neither automatic or not, I think the problem would be more the fact that blight is scaled by event, but doesn't interact in any way with crops.
Blight will hit all crops, so you cannot protect with differnt plants.
Blight will hit multiple fields or one big field in the same way, so seperating doesn't matter
Blight will grow as slowly as it doesn't matter if you cut it today or tomorrow.
So said, blight should interact more with plants and layout. If that given It doesn't matter a lot if they are automatic or not as they ain't a real threat and you cannot protect yourself in any way anyway.
This. I think blight might hit harder but affect one type of crop at time, like a specific plant type infection, which can be made less of a threat with growing different crops and mixing fields at a cost of less efficient crops. Players are already inclined to grow only corn/rice for food with few exceptions, so this might bring different strategies.
As it is now it is pretty pointless and tedious. When blight occurs it's just pause the game, select all blighted crops, press Y, make more harvesters with 1 priority if you don't have already, draft-undraft. If you have big fields, or small number of harvesters, or it's night, it's even worse - also get everyone to the fields and babysit them until they finish. As it is now I'd say the event better not exist at all, imo.
I noticed that when a colonist want to lay on the floor to stargaze there is a chance he will go to a wet place, getting a mood debuff. If they dont like being wet unless they need to, they shouldnt go there in these situations right?
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, Mountainous, Caves
Commitment mode: Save/load whenever
Current colony age: 80 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 5+
Complete mod list: None
On the recent change to what we can see about enemies intentions, I would prefer to see raiders' and manhunters' intended targets/actions as for me that's part of the fun, seeing what they're going to do and trying to prepare for it. Now I just sit and wait when a raid starts, which is boring.
Maybe it could be different for different difficulties? Up to medium you get to see what the enemy is planning, rough and upwards you're fighting blind.
Graphic changes seem ok to me, except healroot is harder to locate which is annoying.
Since the changes to animal training, with it degrading, I'm finding it less enjoyable/rewarding to train animals, which is a shame, and I'm mostly not bothering with it now - maybe when my colony has grown enough to have a dedicated animal handler. Having a pack of hauling animals was a lot of fun. I'm still usually taking a couple of alpacas on every caravan just in case we have stuff to bring back.
My pyromaniac has had two fire-starting sprees. I've found it manageable, sending another colonist to follow them and put out the fires before they spread, but I'd rather it didn't happen when they're in a good mood.
I also miss having a better alert with breakdowns (batteries etc), as others have said. I want to know when that happens and so far I've missed it unless I've happened to notice the pawn fixing it.
Otherwise I'm enjoying this run through. For the first time I'm doing lots of caravan quests, which seem well-balanced for medium. Every time I send some colonists out, I seem to get a raid back home - my colonists are getting hurt but no-one has died yet.
My colony is growing more quickly than usual as I'm doing rescue prisoner quests, that I've never bothered with before, and chased refugees more. Only recruited one prisoner so far though as mostly raiders end up dead or are not desirable additions if they do survive. Recruitment was straightforward, liked the new 'reduce resistance' mechanic.
Tried to attach my graphs but it told me the upload folder was full. No idea what that means - any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong? Total size is under 600 KB.
Trade offers are still visible on world map after faction became hostile.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Challenge
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, Mountainous, Caves
Commitment mode: yes
After mining next to my base, insect appears. Ok.
But even if then, I don't continue to mine here, the same even occurs again a few time later : new insect. They even attack my base after being hurt (all of them !) It seems a bit unfair to see the same event twice even if I stop mining.
Quote from: shaw6622 on August 03, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
On the recent change to what we can see about enemies intentions, I would prefer to see raiders' and manhunters' intended targets/actions as for me that's part of the fun, seeing what they're going to do and trying to prepare for it. Now I just sit and wait when a raid starts, which is boring.
I dislike the change. I like watching them prepare. I like to see what they're doing. I prefer to see the ridiculous shots that hit or miss a pawn in real time rather than a log. Ultimately the AI can be dumb and I like to make sense of what they're doing.
You can name almost any game. They accurately clue you in what AI is doing through visual cues, text, anything. Prepare to make similar approaches or this just downgrades game quality IMO. It's one of those changes where I throw my arms up and say just remove their tabs while we're at it. Guess it's done an attempt prevent cheese (no clue really) but this is the wrong approach in current state.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 447 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
v.1982
Game Notes/Graphs:
-I played the majority of the evening on 1x Speed for a change, and found it enjoyable. I accomplished a great deal of building, and finally got a bunch of base streamlining projects done that have been delayed.
-Of note: I recieved another trade request for 54 Cowboy Hats in exchange for 3 Resurrector serums, which makes this the third time that Resurrector serums have been offered this game. This makes me very happy: they've proven to be necessary.
Graphs:
(https://i.imgur.com/jfUBHVW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/rmeFis0.png)
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Tropical rainforest/small hills
Commitment mode: no
Time played last 2 days: 8 hours.
Overall impressions: Really good. I'm a player since late A16, and during the earlier versions I enjoyed the first few years of the colony, but got bored after a while when I got everything set up, and started modding afterwards. The mid/late game is much more interesting than it was, and I´m finally motivated enough to go for the ship sequence (almost there now). I'm not going to give a complete play story, just some thoughts and suggestions.
- Robbing caravans is too rewarding. I have a suggestion to solve this:
You attack the caravan, and the following may happen:
A message pops up: "After Bob attacked the caravan, he is surprised to see Banastra, a member of the caravan, pulling out an orbital beam targeter. Banastra yells "Stop with what you're doing or I will blow up all of us!". The player can choose: "stop attacking" or "you're bluffing". If the first option is chosen, the caravan will leave immediately without fighting, if the player attacks anyway he'll know what's going to happen. Picking the second option will give some nice firework for sure (or maybe not, if he was really bluffing). In any case, you'll lose reputation, so the "stop attacking" option won't be a get out of jail for free card.
- Drop pods need some more work. Has been brought up by other players so I'm not going to repeat their suggestions.
- The calculation of how many days of food you have for your caravan needs to be more transparent and improved. Especially when you have meat eaters in your caravan, things are sometimes really strange. Sometimes adding meals to the caravan decreased the days of food somehow, which seems like a bug to me. Just knowing what's going on would definitely help.
- It would be nice if when you arrive at your destination you are presented a dialog with: "Bobs caravan has arrived at the bandit camp" with the two options: "engage" or "rest before engaging". I've had collapses due to exhaustion multiple times because I arrived at my destination at the wrong time. After your pawns are rested you'd get the option to engage again, or to wait longer.
- Please add a warning to the caravan confirm button when you forgot to add medicine and/or bedrolls.
- Manhunter events were too frequent in my game. After a while my fridge was stocked with dead animals, making hunting/animal breeding (for meat) completely redundant.
- The last few raids were all mechanoids/manhunters. Could have been pure RNG, but it was just something I noticed. I'm allied/neutral with all factions, so maybe that influences the chances of getting non-raider attacks.
- It would be nice if there is a tribal evil faction, so you still get tribal raids after you befriend every tribal faction.
Quote from: Walkaboutout on August 02, 2018, 11:53:21 AMI have to say, I am very much not a fan of the now silent infections
FYI the silent infection thing is a bug, it'll be fixed.
Quote from: Roolo on August 03, 2018, 05:28:54 AM
- Manhunter events were too frequent in my game. After a while my fridge was stocked with dead animals, making hunting/animal breeding (for meat) completely redundant.
Well animal breeding for meat purposes wasn't really that viable even without manhunters. Just too long gestation times, too low meat count, while food consumption is way too high. Add to that animal diseases draining your meds and you'll get a massive waste of time. Especially when compared to hunting.
Also it might be a random quirk of your particular run, i didn't get that much manhunters as to fill my freezer with corpses. They come occasionally and we celebrate by gorging on lavish meals for a quadrum, then its more or less veggy diet again.
Glad to hear that infections without a warning wasn't an intended change.
Quote from: Tynan on August 03, 2018, 05:41:05 AM
Quote from: Walkaboutout on August 02, 2018, 11:53:21 AMI have to say, I am very much not a fan of the now silent infections
FYI the silent infection thing is a bug, it'll be fixed.
There seem to be a few more silent events. Are these related? I've seen a few electrical breakdowns without a warning.
Storyteller: Cassandra, Crashlanded
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Tropical rainforest, Flat
Commitment mode: yes
Playtime: ~32 hours, 6 years in game to the ship reactor startup
* quests: quests are more consistent now, i get a more variety of items. I got 4 resurrection serum, well spread out in time (1+2+1), 4 orbital bombardment targeters, 2 tornado generators, 2-3 healer mech serum, the chemfuel generator and psychic soother. Trade offers were also really worth it most of the time, the legendary shield belt and masterwork marine armor are precious items who can rarely been declined. There was still some weird offer, notably late game which no longer make much sense.
* caravaning: playing on tropical rainforest there was no problem with grazing periods. I used elephants (~12) as pack animals and auxillary defense, there were really useful notably to carry 1 ton+ uranium, which is always a pain to put in pods.
* ambushes seems really weak on merciless compared to threats in your base or even in the quests sites. I've been ambushes by one single guys vs 3-4 colonists and packs animals several times.
*QoL changes:
-i'd like to see a crop zone selecting rich soil only. I also think it'd be useful for new players, since a rule of thumb is a decent size rich soil patch is largely enough to feed your colony. It should be more transparent before the grow ridiculous large crops.
- i also would like hotkeys, to unforbid or mine you've to go in architect -> orders to unlock the hotkeys (u) and (l).
- a cut blight crops could be nice also, the challenge should be missing the blight reproducing, not missing visually a blight crop tile
- while caravaning and on temp maps it would be nice if colonist could use medicine in inventories ( a mod like smart medicine does that) instead of having to look in each individual inventories for the medicines, that's by far the most frequent micro one has to do after an ambush or if you get sick on a temp map
* One of the rule i gave to myself in this playthrough was to rescue all relatives (accept chased refugee and go for incapped relative quests). It is always a challenge to save relatives who are enemies. You can use a psychic shock lance, but there is a risk to have a burn scar and most important an active fire in your brain, which will end up burning the pawn to death! I think the brain scar is enough of a challenge, you've to use luci or a healer mech serum, which is a high enough cost for saving a pawn.
* adaptation seems fine, i started up the reactor, got nearly wiped out after the first two raids (8000 pts machs + outlanders), i didn't think of the magic items... which were incredibly useful after that, but the following raids were manageable.
* I think for my next run i'll keep this '360 rule', whatever happens the reactor must be ready day 360, it seems to be the good time frame since there are down times in the second half of the run when research is done, caravaning is low intensity (and i did most of the quests). I don't mean there should be more quests, they are balanced now, it's just there could be something else/ more to flesh out the late game, i think it was 'only' 32 hours for 6 years because i used speed 4 during these downtimes. Their is not much to micro once your colony is established, the social system runs in the background and there is not much you can do to prevent affairs, social fights etc...
(https://i.imgur.com/VLgYZ9m.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2hcF0o3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Lmaq6J7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vCOQhEI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nbbdyIf.jpg)
Quote from: Madman666 on August 03, 2018, 05:53:27 AM
Quote from: Roolo on August 03, 2018, 05:28:54 AM
- Manhunter events were too frequent in my game. After a while my fridge was stocked with dead animals, making hunting/animal breeding (for meat) completely redundant.
Well animal breeding for meat purposes wasn't really that viable even without manhunters. Just too long gestation times, too low meat count, while food consumption is way too high. Add to that animal diseases draining your meds and you'll get a massive waste of time. Especially when compared to hunting.
[..]
On very grassy maps, like the tropical rainforest on which my playtrough took place, if found having like 10+ pigs, 5-ish cows, 10+ chickens and some alpacas to be a nice additional source of food leather and other animal products, but indeed not something to depend on entirely. They fed themselves with only grass and raider corpses, so the only overhead was only some food used for training, and the training time of course. It's probably a different story on the maps with a lot of winter where you have to feed the animals regularly. I enjoyed having some livestock pondering about, until I kept having megasloth-, bear-, elephant, and rino raids totally stocking up my fridge, making my lifestock somewhat redundant. It could indeed just be lucky RNG, but I'm not making conclusions in general: it's just what I experienced.
Edit: About the meds needed for animals. I don't think that was really a point for me. It was actually a good way to give my doctors some extra training, and when I couldn't miss the meds, I just slaughtered the animal. Bonding doesn't really happen for the 0% wildness animals if you don't train them, so it's very often not a problem to just slaughter them when problems occur.
Another edit: Also, I found letting raiders slaughter my animals instead of doing it myself to be a good way to distract them while I'm blowing them up. Especially pigs breed like crazy, making it a viable tactic IMO. Good that we don't have animal charity organisations on Rimworld :).
Yea, a little frustration here but, do mechanoids really need to destroy some bodypart with every hit? I don't really like being forced to use cheese tactics.
I'm in a bunker, but every time I open the doors to get some shots in somebody loses a limb.
This is getting annoying pretty fast.
This isn't story telling, this is lame.
Cheers :)
Quote from: Koek on August 03, 2018, 06:34:44 AM
Yea, a little frustration here but, do mechanoids really need to destroy some bodypart with every hit? I don't really like being forced to use cheese tactics.
I'm in a bunker, but every time I open the doors to get some shots in somebody loses a limb.
This is getting annoying pretty fast.
This isn't story telling, this is lame.
Cheers :)
Sorry to say this but I feel like you may be new to the game? Try making armor and cover (sandbags, walls, doors, chunks) for your pawns it is very good at saving their lives, especially their limbs too. The only times I have lost limbs to mechs in 1.0 is when I personally made a mistake. I feel like mechs are at a good point in 1.0 unstable, maybe a little too easy still in my opinion now as melee is good viable tactic in dealing with mechs (in small numbers) emp nades are also a very big help in dealing with mechs. The biggest threat in the game for me is ants still. They always seem to be what set my colony back.
Also mechs are supposed to be devastating enemies to fight, they are robots from space!
Although I do feel like mechs should be stronger than ant armies :o
Quote from: LustrousWolf on August 03, 2018, 06:45:41 AM
Sorry to say this but I feel like you may be new to the game? Try making armor and cover (sandbags, walls, doors, chunks) for your pawns it is very good at saving their lives, especially their limbs too. The only times I have lost limbs to mechs in 1.0 is when I personally made a mistake. I feel like mechs are at a good point in 1.0 unstable, maybe a little too easy still in my opinion now as melee is good viable tactic in dealing with mechs (in small numbers) emp nades are also a very big help in dealing with mechs. The biggest threat in the game for me is ants still. They always seem to be what set my colony back.
Also mechs are supposed to be devastating enemies to fight, they are robots from space!
Although I do feel like mechs should be stronger than ant armies :o
Armor > hyperweave button shirts, hyperweave or devilstrand dusters, flak pants, flak vests, war masks + marine helmets when I can afford them. Everything good or higher quality.
Cover > sandbags + granite doors/walls, small + medium gun turrets.
Cheese > doorpeeking
Emp grenades > yes
New > no
Perhaps it is me just being cursed with shitty rng and bad luck, but the last few mech raids I lost bodyparts. Now this isn't THAT big a deal since I can put some bionic parts in, but it just feels I get hit more than I should using the setup I use and when I get hit it's some bodypart gone.
Normal raids don't stand a chance atm. I'm not in a mountain so bugs are not an issue. Just the mechanoids, shooting off limbs and intestines every raid.
I lost a colonist to getting storytold straight in the heart with a greatbow yesterday and although I didn't like the loss I felt it being part of this story. The mechs are just a bit too OP I feel even though they are robots from space.
I would expect these results playing on extreme or something, not on rough with a solid defensive setup.
Maybe I'll try a killbox from now on or just start gifting everything I don't immediately need to stay poor and get smaller, more manageable raids; tactics I tried to avoid till now.
My main frustration is just, fun draining rappidly if this is how it's meant to be.
edit: Cheers :))
Yeah the armor system is a bit weird. I just made a legendary marine armor and wow is it astronomically better than everything else. It's like an invincibility shield that lasts until it's armor duration is lowered. But a "good" power armor? Meh. And plate? Yuck.
I honestly feel like joywiring my crafters so they get more inspirations.
Quote from: Koek on August 03, 2018, 07:16:13 AM
Quote from: LustrousWolf on August 03, 2018, 06:45:41 AM
Sorry to say this but I feel like you may be new to the game? Try making armor and cover (sandbags, walls, doors, chunks) for your pawns it is very good at saving their lives, especially their limbs too. The only times I have lost limbs to mechs in 1.0 is when I personally made a mistake. I feel like mechs are at a good point in 1.0 unstable, maybe a little too easy still in my opinion now as melee is good viable tactic in dealing with mechs (in small numbers) emp nades are also a very big help in dealing with mechs. The biggest threat in the game for me is ants still. They always seem to be what set my colony back.
Also mechs are supposed to be devastating enemies to fight, they are robots from space!
Although I do feel like mechs should be stronger than ant armies :o
Armor > hyperweave button shirts, hyperweave or devilstrand dusters, flak pants, flak vests, war masks + marine helmets when I can afford them. Everything good or higher quality.
Cover > sandbags + granite doors/walls, small + medium gun turrets.
Cheese > doorpeeking
Emp grenades > yes
New > no
Perhaps it is me just being cursed with shitty rng and bad luck, but the last few mech raids I lost bodyparts. Now this isn't THAT big a deal since I can put some bionic parts in, but it just feels I get hit more than I should using the setup I use and when I get hit it's some bodypart gone.
Normal raids don't stand a chance atm. I'm not in a mountain so bugs are not an issue. Just the mechanoids, shooting off limbs and intestines every raid.
I lost a colonist to getting storytold straight in the heart with a greatbow yesterday and although I didn't like the loss I felt it being part of this story. The mechs are just a bit too OP I feel even though they are robots from space.
I would expect these results playing on extreme or something, not on rough with a solid defensive setup.
Maybe I'll try a killbox from now on or just start gifting everything I don't immediately need to stay poor and get smaller, more manageable raids; tactics I tried to avoid till now.
My main frustration is just, fun draining rappidly if this is how it's meant to be.
Ive never used hyperweave for clothing. By the time I have built the ship or caravaned to it to escape I have only got around enough hyperweave for one duster, so then I tend to just make cowboy hats with it and sell them. I tend to have thrumbofur or devilstrand clothing near end game. For armor I tend to go with flak armor (not flak jacket because dusters are much better) and end game I will get the power helmets, already escaped before I can make power armor.
Also, not sure how your pawns loose limbs with those kinds of clothing matieral and armor in one shot, are you sure they are not getting shot in the same place twice by a lancer? Because lancers tend to be the reason your pawns will lose limbs, but a few updates ago they do less damage and fire faster now I think? So they are less of a problem now for losing limbs, just gotta take them off the battlefield as the limb goes red in the health tab so another shot does not shoot it off :D Or maybe you do just tend to have bad rng haha
I think door peeking will always be a part of rimworld, especially when tough raids start to come and they over run your defences, thats just how rimworld tends to get, unless you can somehow surround the enemies that will be my main tactic in making them flee, as they will not have cover from all sides and go down pretty easily then.
I am not in mountains either anymore but bugs still spawn out of tiny mountains roofs no where near my base and cause more problems than mechs :D
Also, as Tynan said, this game is about loss and recovery, and you will have to learn about how to deal with your now limbless pawn :)
@LustrousWolf
Doorpeeking is not a bother tbh and ofcourse I get pawns who got hit off the battlefield straight into my hospital. I'm just a bit salty about getting shafted by every mech raid today I guess. I just needed to let off some steam and get my frustration flowing, hoping for some feedback.
Your feedback is appreciated and you are right on most things. Ofcourse I don't ALWAYS have such bad luck, but today is just miraculously bad for some reason. I blame the new armor mechanics :)
I'm playing rough and I expect some difficulty. Maybe I should try extreme a few times, maybe it'll make me go back to rough with a few sighs of relief :))
Perhaps I should just deal with how the game works and, for example, stop treating some things as cheesing like staying poor(ish) to have a bit easier raids.
Anyways, thanks for the replies. I need to find a new kidney somewhere and get some bionic legs going.
Cheers :))
Quote from: Koek on August 03, 2018, 07:16:13 AM
Just the mechanoids, shooting off limbs and intestines every raid.
Maybe I'll try a killbox from now on or just start gifting everything I don't immediately need to stay poor and get smaller, more manageable raids; tactics I tried to avoid till now.
Shield bait save a limbs! Also, lancer engaged in melee doesnt shoot, so corner/obstacle ambushes are so good to ignore it. Just direct shooting with lancers end with deaths sooner or later, doesnt matter how good your cover and armor - its just a matter of time when a lucky shot roll properly brain or heart hit. -_-
Quote from: Awe on August 03, 2018, 08:16:42 AM
Quote from: Koek on August 03, 2018, 07:16:13 AM
Just the mechanoids, shooting off limbs and intestines every raid.
Maybe I'll try a killbox from now on or just start gifting everything I don't immediately need to stay poor and get smaller, more manageable raids; tactics I tried to avoid till now.
Shield bait save a limbs! Also, lancer engaged in melee doesnt shoot, so corner/obstacle ambushes are so good to ignore it. Just direct shooting with lancers end with deaths sooner or later, doesnt matter how good your cover and armor - its just a matter of time when a lucky shot roll properly brain or heart hit. -_-
Alright, thanks for the tips.
Quote from: Koek on August 03, 2018, 07:57:50 AM
@LustrousWolf
Doorpeeking is not a bother tbh and ofcourse I get pawns who got hit off the battlefield straight into my hospital. I'm just a bit salty about getting shafted by every mech raid today I guess. I just needed to let off some steam and get my frustration flowing, hoping for some feedback.
Your feedback is appreciated and you are right on most things. Ofcourse I don't ALWAYS have such bad luck, but today is just miraculously bad for some reason. I blame the new armor mechanics :)
I'm playing rough and I expect some difficulty. Maybe I should try extreme a few times, maybe it'll make me go back to rough with a few sighs of relief :))
Perhaps I should just deal with how the game works and, for example, stop treating some things as cheesing like staying poor(ish) to have a bit easier raids.
Anyways, thanks for the replies. I need to find a new kidney somewhere and get some bionic legs going.
Cheers :))
Yeah playing 1.0 I have had a few bad moments as the game has changed but I am learning and finding it fun so just keep playing and you will learn what has changed and how to deal with it all, like the new armor mechanics for example :)
Have fun :)
Storyteller: Pheobe, Crashlanded
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, Mountainous
Commitment mode: yes
Playtime in last two days: 12-16
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 02, 2018, 03:20:21 PM
started a run in .1978, now it's 7 years in & i've got ~20 healer serums from item stashes, 4 techprofs, 1 power armor, a few masterwork weapons, but never saw a single resurrect & power claw, the only archotech parts i got were 2 legs, 1 arm
not like i need a resurrect serum though, 7 years in, current pop count 32, no colonist died the whole game
funny, i think it's probably just RNG because I've got some resurrect serums kicking around but I've never seen a healer serum or a techprof in 255 in-game days.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 02, 2018, 03:20:21 PM
p.s: Randy - Rough - Mountain - Temperate Forest - Perm. Summer
the revert of trade ship makes dumping materials impossible, now my base's floating in leather, fur, wool, flak vests, flak pants, simple helmets, dusters, & all kind of apparels+weapons :| 6 full trade beacon stockpiles waiting to be freed up
now this i don't get. I didn't even have a comms console for the longest time and I still found the bulk traders frequent enough to be able to dump all my old clothes on them. i've found trading really satisfying this build. trade ship are pretty infrequent, but I think they should feel special. It's a rimworld not a central planet, you know?
During the first mech raid of my colony the alert showed 2 Scythes coming in from one side, but I didn't realize there was a 3rd one way off to the side. Am I missing something in the alerts or does it not effectively notify when there's a split raid incoming?
Quote from: alxddd on August 03, 2018, 09:12:14 AM
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 02, 2018, 03:20:21 PM
p.s: Randy - Rough - Mountain - Temperate Forest - Perm. Summer
the revert of trade ship makes dumping materials impossible, now my base's floating in leather, fur, wool, flak vests, flak pants, simple helmets, dusters, & all kind of apparels+weapons :| 6 full trade beacon stockpiles waiting to be freed up
now this i don't get. I didn't even have a comms console for the longest time and I still found the bulk traders frequent enough to be able to dump all my old clothes on them. i've found trading really satisfying this build. trade ship are pretty infrequent, but I think they should feel special. It's a rimworld not a central planet, you know?
Same. Faction traders have been plenty for me to unload unwanted assets.
It makes me wonder, if incoming trade caravan events actually consider what the surrounding faction villages are capable of selling and want to buy?
I could see mlzovozlm's problem if a colony spot was picked where all the surrounding faction villages don't want any bulk products...
Quote from: erdrik on August 03, 2018, 11:10:11 AM
Quote from: alxddd on August 03, 2018, 09:12:14 AM
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 02, 2018, 03:20:21 PM
p.s: Randy - Rough - Mountain - Temperate Forest - Perm. Summer
the revert of trade ship makes dumping materials impossible, now my base's floating in leather, fur, wool, flak vests, flak pants, simple helmets, dusters, & all kind of apparels+weapons :| 6 full trade beacon stockpiles waiting to be freed up
now this i don't get. I didn't even have a comms console for the longest time and I still found the bulk traders frequent enough to be able to dump all my old clothes on them. i've found trading really satisfying this build. trade ship are pretty infrequent, but I think they should feel special. It's a rimworld not a central planet, you know?
Same. Faction traders have been plenty for me to unload unwanted assets.
It makes me wonder, if incoming trade caravan events actually consider what the surrounding faction villages are capable of selling and want to buy?
I could see mlzovozlm's problem if a colony spot was picked where all the surrounding faction villages don't want any bulk products...
Randy Rough - Boreal Forest
I settled in kind of an isolated area (6 days to nearest settlement) and have not seen a single trader yet. I'm approaching the end of my first year. I don't know if distance to settlements impacts trader frequency or if it's random, but that's another possibility.
Quote from: Koek on August 03, 2018, 07:16:13 AM
Quote from: LustrousWolf on August 03, 2018, 06:45:41 AM
Sorry to say this but I feel like you may be new to the game? Try making armor and cover (sandbags, walls, doors, chunks) for your pawns it is very good at saving their lives, especially their limbs too. The only times I have lost limbs to mechs in 1.0 is when I personally made a mistake. I feel like mechs are at a good point in 1.0 unstable, maybe a little too easy still in my opinion now as melee is good viable tactic in dealing with mechs (in small numbers) emp nades are also a very big help in dealing with mechs. The biggest threat in the game for me is ants still. They always seem to be what set my colony back.
Also mechs are supposed to be devastating enemies to fight, they are robots from space!
Although I do feel like mechs should be stronger than ant armies :o
Armor > hyperweave button shirts, hyperweave or devilstrand dusters, flak pants, flak vests, war masks + marine helmets when I can afford them. Everything good or higher quality.
Cover > sandbags + granite doors/walls, small + medium gun turrets.
Cheese > doorpeeking
Emp grenades > yes
New > no
Perhaps it is me just being cursed with shitty rng and bad luck, but the last few mech raids I lost bodyparts. Now this isn't THAT big a deal since I can put some bionic parts in, but it just feels I get hit more than I should using the setup I use and when I get hit it's some bodypart gone.
Normal raids don't stand a chance atm. I'm not in a mountain so bugs are not an issue. Just the mechanoids, shooting off limbs and intestines every raid.
I lost a colonist to getting storytold straight in the heart with a greatbow yesterday and although I didn't like the loss I felt it being part of this story. The mechs are just a bit too OP I feel even though they are robots from space.
I would expect these results playing on extreme or something, not on rough with a solid defensive setup.
Maybe I'll try a killbox from now on or just start gifting everything I don't immediately need to stay poor and get smaller, more manageable raids; tactics I tried to avoid till now.
My main frustration is just, fun draining rappidly if this is how it's meant to be.
edit: Cheers :))
the way the armor system works - take each armor item and subtract 45 armor from it. That new value is the effective armor vs a lancer.
Regular flak pants = naked vs clance. Dstrand unless super high quality = effectively naked.
For hyperweave shirts you need high quality too. Iirc legend is 72 (last time I tested) and you shouldn't burn an inspiration on that.
Basically most armor options are practically useless against clance. Just because it sounds or looks useful does not mean it is.
Storyteller: randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: yes
Playtime in last two days: still dont know how to know this
i found a bug with bridges.
i had a wall blueprint on a bride and raiders destroyed the bridge with fire. the wallstayed there and could actually be constructed without replacing the bridge
Can we stop colonist in tamtrum going 90% of the time for Mortars and Mortar Shells ? Or at least dont make them blow up with punches ? 5 Times in two days its no coincidence :(
A weird thing happening with caravans: they lose their destination upon reloading a save. What I mean is that if I have a caravan on the road when I save & quit, and they have, say, a nearby town as their destination, when I reload they will just be "resting" instead of moving and it's as if they never had a destination selected. I have to reselect the town to get them to start moving again. Seems like a bug?
Another weird thing: recently had my first raid made of three distinct groups of enemies: a group of 5, and group of 6, and a group of 3. One group got wiped out by a turret while I was microing elsewhere, and I got the "enemies are fleeing" message. I thought "gee that was fast" and sent my people out to mop up stragglers only to suddenly have the rest of the pirates descend on us, very much not fleeing. Apparently not ALL the enemies were fleeing, only the ones in that one particular group. I think the message should be changed to reflect this so people who are not familiar with this event don't get blindsided like I was. (It turned out all right, but boy was that a surprise.)
Something that's been happening for many alphas--a pawn from a trader group fell asleep on the ground and the rest of the caravan left without him. He slept there until he had tons of debuffs and I was worried he'd break and mess up my base when he awoke, or get attacked by threats while asleep. Fortunately this did not happen but I think traders should automatically wake up and GTFO when their caravan leaves. (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/973226846973128902/93418BB79485F3F9C48EA61933236971F3A1C556/)
Small typo in the screen when contacting another faction; pretty sure there should be an "and" after "warily" (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/973226846973134279/F3AF17149C5EB9A14793688EA4DF3445E91337D9/).
Storyteller: Pheobe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Playtime in last three days: 8/9 hours?
Turret accuracy/cost tradeoff seems off, or something.
The uranium slug turret is listed as having 98% accuracy which I take to mean should be missing 1 shot every 50. I just had an ibex doe manhunter event happen and watched a sniper turret ineffectively waste nearly its entire barrel-change worth of uranium peppering the ground around all the ibexes without hitting them. If the most accurate turret in the game can't hit things it kinda confirms the instincts that maybe these things aren't actually worth the investment/power drain.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest/Flat
Commitment mode: (yes)
Current colony age (days): 307
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20~h
Complete mod list: none-
I've been using this 'abuse' recently. This is because I was desperate on food, due to toxic fallout after effect or freezing winter, wildlife seems had no interest to enter the map. And I only had one greenhouse growing corn, rice, and tatoes. With 10 people, 4 dogs, 1 big cat, and 3 bears, that was tough season.
So I came up with idea, to call a trader, a bulk one, so I can buy food. Later, when they arrived, I had even better idea. We know that trader from factions that hate each other won't enter the map simultaniously anymore, to prevent that dirty loot. But it's still working if you call immediate military aid while there's trader from opposite faction. When those people landed, the immediately moving (inject drug first if they had) to their enemy caravan. And fight happened. Viola, free foods, free weapons, and goodwill from rescueing downed people. Tons, if you are lucky. (And corpses for bears).
I don't know if this is intended, but it feels dirty for me. Perhaps, make them temporary neutral to each other when they are called intentionally by comms console. Some kind of "Common Ally Truce" event pop up, happens when 2 traders and/or military aids from factions that hostile each other, enter the map at the same time.
Quote from: mcduff on August 03, 2018, 02:33:46 PM
Storyteller: Pheobe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Playtime in last three days: 8/9 hours?
Turret accuracy/cost tradeoff seems off, or something.
The uranium slug turret is listed as having 98% accuracy which I take to mean should be missing 1 shot every 50. I just had an ibex doe manhunter event happen and watched a sniper turret ineffectively waste nearly its entire barrel-change worth of uranium peppering the ground around all the ibexes without hitting them. If the most accurate turret in the game can't hit things it kinda confirms the instincts that maybe these things aren't actually worth the investment/power drain.
miss chance is calculated per tile of the shot.
Quote from: mcduff on August 03, 2018, 02:33:46 PM
Storyteller: Pheobe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Playtime in last three days: 8/9 hours?
Turret accuracy/cost tradeoff seems off, or something.
The uranium slug turret is listed as having 98% accuracy which I take to mean should be missing 1 shot every 50. I just had an ibex doe manhunter event happen and watched a sniper turret ineffectively waste nearly its entire barrel-change worth of uranium peppering the ground around all the ibexes without hitting them. If the most accurate turret in the game can't hit things it kinda confirms the instincts that maybe these things aren't actually worth the investment/power drain.
98% is just the base accuracy. It probably loses accuracy over range like everything else, and then there is cover and weather. Most things aren't accurate at long range in this game, even master snipers with full biotics rarely get above 70% at actual sniper range.
I don't think sniper turrets are very good. The accuracy issue is only part of it. Sniper range is the safest range to be at, so it's a range I can put pawns at and have them be pretty safe, so why do I need a turret that costs me uranium with every shot? Because it's most effective at range, placement is tricky and even if you get a good placement you pretty much need to have other turrets or pawns in front of it, which
will get friendly fired. Short range turrets make a lot more sense because you can use them to tank while your pawns stay behind them. You can rebuild a turret a lot more easily than a pawn, so that makes sense. But sniper turrets are totally backwards, why would I risk pawns for a building?
Quote from: mcduff on August 03, 2018, 02:33:46 PM
Turret accuracy/cost tradeoff seems off, or something.
The uranium slug turret is listed as having 98% accuracy which I take to mean should be missing 1 shot every 50. I just had an ibex doe manhunter event happen and watched a sniper turret ineffectively waste nearly its entire barrel-change worth of uranium peppering the ground around all the ibexes without hitting them. If the most accurate turret in the game can't hit things it kinda confirms the instincts that maybe these things aren't actually worth the investment/power drain.
98% is base value. And its affected by range, weather, cover, size of target. So uranium turret is mostly anti-large kind of defence. Like centipedes or thrumbos.
So I finally downloaded 1.0, and just wanted to share a few things right off the bat before posting about playthroughs.
I love the UI streamlining, and the changed graphics. Very well done, and just what the game needed at this stage. It may seem superfluous to some, but I like it.
One typo I noticed when starting my first new game on 1.0 is when picking Randy Random on Savage. The description for Savage (which may be used for all storytellers, I just always play Randy usually) misspells 'experience' the second time, missing the third 'e'.
The highlights and designations changing from square shapes to round was also a good aesthetic choice, in my opinion.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on August 03, 2018, 04:02:35 PM
Quote from: mcduff on August 03, 2018, 02:33:46 PM
Storyteller: Pheobe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Playtime in last three days: 8/9 hours?
Turret accuracy/cost tradeoff seems off, or something.
The uranium slug turret is listed as having 98% accuracy which I take to mean should be missing 1 shot every 50. I just had an ibex doe manhunter event happen and watched a sniper turret ineffectively waste nearly its entire barrel-change worth of uranium peppering the ground around all the ibexes without hitting them. If the most accurate turret in the game can't hit things it kinda confirms the instincts that maybe these things aren't actually worth the investment/power drain.
98% is just the base accuracy. It probably loses accuracy over range like everything else, and then there is cover and weather. Most things aren't accurate at long range in this game, even master snipers with full biotics rarely get above 70% at actual sniper range.
I don't think sniper turrets are very good. The accuracy issue is only part of it. Sniper range is the safest range to be at, so it's a range I can put pawns at and have them be pretty safe, so why do I need a turret that costs me uranium with every shot? Because it's most effective at range, placement is tricky and even if you get a good placement you pretty much need to have other turrets or pawns in front of it, which will get friendly fired. Short range turrets make a lot more sense because you can use them to tank while your pawns stay behind them. You can rebuild a turret a lot more easily than a pawn, so that makes sense. But sniper turrets are totally backwards, why would I risk pawns for a building?
Yeah, I've been trying to figure out how to use them properly but they feel like a resource sink that doesn't pay off as well tbh. I've said a few times that a minigun turret would actually feel a bit more useful and worthwhile.
Is this a feature or bug?
Can insects spawn under normal roofs connected to mountain roofs? Because i had a straight line of 7 mountain roof aprox in a room with 100+ normal roofs.
Then i saw the notification, jumped to the room, saw every corner of it covered in the smoke caused by insects tunneling up and savescummed the fuck out of there.
I think there wasnt a single actual mountain roof spot with that smoke.
Oh and have you increased the death on downed chance? It is getting really hard to capture raiders...
Quote from: mcduff on August 03, 2018, 06:26:53 PM
Yeah, I've been trying to figure out how to use them properly but they feel like a resource sink that doesn't pay off as well tbh. I've said a few times that a minigun turret would actually feel a bit more useful and worthwhile.
Yeah I'm struggling to find uses for turrets other than sapper deterrent and most of the time I don't even do that anymore. I am trying an idea to use sniper turrets in wide hallways through my base, put them at a cross section that is open to the outside and design the interior of my base as combat ready (lots of doors for firing points and corridor lined with sandbags for cover. Not got to sniper turrets yet but it was proving usable with just colonists (getting raiders in to range of chain shotguns with ease helps a lot)
In 1.0.1982, pawns ignore their assigned zones. My hauler is suiciding by venturing outside with the manhunter pack.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Yeah it's always been the case that pawns will always go through zones they aren't allowed to, they just won't do tasks in those zones. So you gotta be creative in how you lay out your doors.
Quote from: seerdecker on August 03, 2018, 09:55:44 PM
In 1.0.1982, pawns ignore their assigned zones. My hauler is suiciding by venturing outside with the manhunter pack.
To add to what Greep wrote:
If the
only way to get to their destination is to go slightly outside of their assigned zone, they'll do it. This was also the case in B18, and there's no workaround: otherwise a colonist would be essentially trapped in the assigned zone permanently.
One of my colonists caught the flu while in a caravan, and the pop up said he was an animal. That's just rude! ;)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: yes
Playtime in last 2 days: ~16
Another 2 years of Sea Ice, the neverending saga. Last gripe about raid formula and I'll stop: After ignoring wealth/rampups for a bit, I ended up fighting 10 centipides, on sea ice. After a really boring 40 minute slugfest of pausing and unpausing over and over to kite and finally making it, I have simply come to peace with the fact that the raid formula is kinda borked in a way that's unfixable, and metagming is just how you play vanilla. I then burned a few tons of leather and shot 2 of my weakest colonists. In the next 2 years, raids have been doable.
Focus at the moment is making the best possible defense in proportion to raid sizes: Making everyone a terminator in heavy armor, and importing craptons of stone, every stone I can buy. This has been accomplished with trading drugs for steel and LRMSing for plasteel. After 2 years I have about 25 bionics installed, legs for everyone, arms for crafters/cooks, eyes for terminators.
To keep wealth down, I'm hording corpses and then butchering them when traders come. Flake is immediately sold to any trader because the silver has a better raider to value ration than flake. If I get too much silver I start making flooring to buffer my unbelievably impressive uber room.
Some notes on LRMS: Things seem a bit out of balance now that I have strike forces that are capable of taking on the lump ambushes. Unfortunately, there's no patch notes anymore, so I can't tell if this is due to changes mid gameplay or what. Some examples:
-8 Boomalopes (yikes! Almost had to abandon) <- oddly high
-4 sleeping mechanoids <-seemed right
-2 turrets and a dude <- extremely easy and free stuff
-2 dudes and a turret and a mortar <- pretty easy, risk getting one hit with a mortar though.
Notably, the turrets lump are extremely easy with an advanced fort: Not only can you just utterly crush it when you have shielded guys and power lances, you get like 500 free steel. Mortars are kinda scary since they get off a shot before you can get into range, though.
Additionally, I am crazily enough getting "low expectations" (not even very low!) on a simple attack force of 4 guys: this is due to to their high quality armor and guns. It feels weird having to send psychite tea and various luxurious for a dirty mining expedition.
Other than the centipede force of doom, raids have been pretty simple. The only crazy one was a scyther horde immediately followed by a manhunting deer horde, which I had to exit my fort to troll them a bit while I reset traps.
Oh also, I've finally got my fort completely green! Everything's powered by windmills 100% now, no chemfuel needed ever, except for mortar shells. 10 windmills and 3 battery blocks behind separate power switches will do that :D Still have them installed in case I get a catastrophic drop pod event or something.
The huge spikes downward and immediately upward on the graph toward the end is caused by power armor raiders going raiding. Legendary power armor is expensive :) The drop down in wealth at 460 is me torching half my storage facility, though.
Oh and after 5 years of living together, the 2 cannibal lesbians ended up in a failed romance and are chugging down drugs ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: mcduff on August 03, 2018, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on August 03, 2018, 04:02:35 PM
Quote from: mcduff on August 03, 2018, 02:33:46 PM
Storyteller: Pheobe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest
Commitment mode: no
Playtime in last three days: 8/9 hours?
Turret accuracy/cost tradeoff seems off, or something.
The uranium slug turret is listed as having 98% accuracy which I take to mean should be missing 1 shot every 50. I just had an ibex doe manhunter event happen and watched a sniper turret ineffectively waste nearly its entire barrel-change worth of uranium peppering the ground around all the ibexes without hitting them. If the most accurate turret in the game can't hit things it kinda confirms the instincts that maybe these things aren't actually worth the investment/power drain.
98% is just the base accuracy. It probably loses accuracy over range like everything else, and then there is cover and weather. Most things aren't accurate at long range in this game, even master snipers with full biotics rarely get above 70% at actual sniper range.
I don't think sniper turrets are very good. The accuracy issue is only part of it. Sniper range is the safest range to be at, so it's a range I can put pawns at and have them be pretty safe, so why do I need a turret that costs me uranium with every shot? Because it's most effective at range, placement is tricky and even if you get a good placement you pretty much need to have other turrets or pawns in front of it, which will get friendly fired. Short range turrets make a lot more sense because you can use them to tank while your pawns stay behind them. You can rebuild a turret a lot more easily than a pawn, so that makes sense. But sniper turrets are totally backwards, why would I risk pawns for a building?
Yeah, I've been trying to figure out how to use them properly but they feel like a resource sink that doesn't pay off as well tbh. I've said a few times that a minigun turret would actually feel a bit more useful and worthwhile.
It actually proved itself quite useful in my last mechanoid raid. While mini-turrets barely hit anything and mostly played decoy, sniper turret actually hit some targets.
(Could we have a score for turrets like we have for pawns, I wonder?) And while it wasn't 98% hits, more like 50%, but it is a lot already in comparison to other and due to damage and AP when it hit it was devastating.
Both mini-turrets and autocannons were unable to reach lancers in the open field so sniper turret covered them.
Not sure if this has been reported, or if this is intentional, but... I get the same colonists every time. Previously even if I used the same seed, and even the same site, I would get a random list of colonists. With the latest build, if I use the same Seed, and any site on the planet I will always get the same exact started pool to choose from.
Quote from: Greep on August 04, 2018, 12:36:58 AM
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: yes
Playtime in last 2 days: ~16
Another 2 years of Sea Ice, the neverending saga. Last gripe about raid formula and I'll stop: After ignoring wealth/rampups for a bit, I ended up fighting 10 centipides, on sea ice. After a really boring 40 minute slugfest of pausing and unpausing over and over to kite and finally making it, I have simply come to peace with the fact that the raid formula is kinda borked in a way that's unfixable, and metagming is just how you play vanilla. I then burned a few tons of leather and shot 2 of my weakest colonists. In the next 2 years, raids have been doable.
[...]
From reading this and the rest of your post, I have the impression you don't really like the difficulty you're playing at, and therefore end up keeping it artificially low, which you don't even seem to like doing. I don't know your wealth levels and how many pawns you have, but 10 centipedes is something I'd expect for merciless a couple of years in, and doesn't need kiting to dealt with. I really advise you to lower the difficulty and try to pretend that you don't even know about adaptation/wealth scaling, just create whatever you want, seems more fun to me than keeping the difficulty artificially low all the time.
I'm not mad, just annoyed with the weird design is all, especially the sudden jump in difficulty for seemingly no reason because bulktraders were two years apart this time. That's so bizarre.
In any case I'm done talking about that and just modded it out for my future games and am just playing the way it seems to be designed for this one.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 04, 2018, 12:01:35 AM
Quote from: seerdecker on August 03, 2018, 09:55:44 PM
In 1.0.1982, pawns ignore their assigned zones. My hauler is suiciding by venturing outside with the manhunter pack.
To add to what Greep wrote:
If the only way to get to their destination is to go slightly outside of their assigned zone, they'll do it. This was also the case in B18, and there's no workaround: otherwise a colonist would be essentially trapped in the assigned zone permanently.
Being trapped in the assigned zone sounds great to me.
i just found out that, eventhough there can be multiple animals bonded to 1 colonist, the mood only account for 1 'master of xxx', meanwhile, if i sell 'the extra' (or let 'em die in a fight), i get debuff(s) :|
1 of my colonist, Megumi, 's got 4, husky+retriever+boomalope+thrumbo, bonded to her
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 466 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
v.1982
Notes:
-Smokeleaf Joint production is in full swing. Also, in an anticipated run on munchies, I've also started a Cocoa Farm.
Tonight's Graphs:
(https://i.imgur.com/jfKpzyf.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/C43reV9.png)
Randy Rough
Mountainous - Temperate Forest - Perm. Summer
1 thing i strongly suggest+support is the ability to slaughter downed insects & the mood buff after winning
my current run's gone for 7 years, 35 colonists, all the clean up after raid & infestation 're extremely risky, as there're too many bodies to haul to 'graveyard', everyone ends up having 'seeing rotting corspe'(max) & 'seeing corpse'(max)
meanwhile, with a 60-something-hive infestation, it takes forever to maul down the hives as they dont detoriorate like in .1961 anymore, now they even spawn more if you ignore the hives. That's annoying, the area around the hives & the area where the colonists make a stand always turn into a mess, they get extreme mental break just by standing there, & shooting or meleeing all those downed insects take forever too, so the cleaning-up may very well take much more time than the fighting itself & make your colonists break, not the actually raid/infestation itself
and also, if you ignore the downed insects, all those unsuspected colonists/animals 'd end up getting munched by the getting-up insects
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest start
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: 119 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20
Complete mod list: None
After escaping the planet fairly easily on Cass Rough NB, I decided to do an experiment to see if it was possible to do it on Extreme, with some additional challenges. I edited the scenario to disable all events where you gain pawns and changed to a tribal start. I then used Prepare Carefully to create a pawn with the Punk childhood and Game Developer adulthood, resulting in all 0s for skills. I gave him no traits and no passions, just 0s across the board. I dubbed this pawn Sad Larry and so Larry's adventures began.
The first Larry was lucky. There was gold in his starting biome. After gathering up a good amount of berries he mined it all out and then went to the nearest neutral tribal camp where he traded it for a recurve bow. With that in hand, he began hunting Alpacas to make clothing and bedrolls. Unfortunately, he didn't get very far as he caught gut worms right around the first fall. Gut Worms was a death sentence. -10 mood from heavy pain and another -5 tacked on for being sick would have been hard to deal with on it's own, but it also doubled his hunger rate while also making him vomit up even more nutrition. He was trapped in a spiral of having to spend all his waking moments getting food just to not starve. Still, I tried to fight through it, hoping maybe I could get enough wealth off animal pelts and make it to a outlander base and buy glitterworld meds. Sadly, it was not to be as Larry then caught the plague. That was just too much, and Cassandra went Rapsutin on him. He broke from pain being plagued and gut wormed, then a raider knocked him out, then a wolf came by and started to eat him while he was still alive. It was a race to see if the plague or the wolf would kill him first. Plague won, narrowly, as the raider burned down his house.
Larry the second did quite a bit better. He mined jade from his starting location and then traded for a bow. He likewise hunted and got a bedroll and some tribal wear. He also got an early drop pod of Penoxycyline which was nice. He then popped an ancient danger. Things were going well until a stray shot hit the cryo pods and woke up 5 hostile soldiers. Larry beat a quick retreat while the mechs and soldiers fought among themselves. Larry caravaned off-map and the soldiers just wandered around until they starved to death. Larry came back in and grabbed himself a normal LMG and normal power armor as well as some luci and assorted artifacts. He then traveled to an outlander base and traded it all for a medical neurotrainer, which got him from 0 to 5 medical.
He then went on a raid of an enemy base guarded by 2 pirates. Building a small room to door peek with let him take them down rather easily. The prize was a techproof core which was used to research electricity, and a joywire which was later sold.
Larry at this point started focusing on stockpiling pemmican for the trip to the ship. During this time, an alpaca self tamed which was very helpful as it let him carry a lot more food. He traveled back north, passing the same outlander camp. This time he sold his power armor as it was slowing him down too much and picked up a pulse rifle, cloth parka, cloth tuque and some medicine in exchange. Thus armed, he headed north. He had a lot of issues with his recreation bar bottoming out and causing mental breaks and as a result he had to stop a few times for food as he ran out during the trip. Eventually through, he was near the ship and made a pit stop at an area of temperate forest nearby to restock on food.
Once he arrived, things were actually pretty tense. His recreation was bottomed out, the ship map had no convenient ruins to use, and he had to fight off about two dozen animals which kept trying to take his food. All the animal corpses plummeted the beauty of the area giving him -15, on top of the -20 from no recreation and he broke. Thankfully no raid happened and he survived the break. Eventually he managed to get a decent base set up and a basic perimeter established, however in the meantime he was hit with Fiberous mechanites. The actual effect wasn't a big deal, but it meant -20 mood from intense pain and sick. That meant he was at risk of breaking no matter what. I couldn't start the event in such a condition so Larry hung around all winter and into spring. Finally when the mechanites were cured, I fired up the reactor.
Larry did not last long. The last time I did it on Rough, I was getting 2-3 raiders per raid. The first raid I got this time was 7 raiders. with roughly the same amount of wealth. Larry held them but not before they broke down his wall and started fires. Larry barely recovered before the next raid came along, 4 sappers. Larry dropped one easily but then he simply kept missing shots after that. He couldn't land a hit if his life depended on it, which incidentally it did. Even if he had landed the shots he needed to repel the sappers, I could tell he wasn't going to make it. Even abusing door peeking, he just simply couldn't kill them before they busted down the walls.
I think I'll need a need new strategy if I want to try this again.
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 04, 2018, 08:36:29 AM
1 thing i strongly suggest+support is the ability to slaughter downed insects
shooting or meleeing all those downed insects take forever
Can you mark them for Hunting? Since Hunters now execute downed animals with a simple neck cut.
the only thing you can do atm is to manually draft & shoot 'em or poke some sticks to 'em, & shooting downed animals 're soooooo inaccurate, it take 4 guys highly-skilled, with rifles, standing 5 tiles away, 30s~1min to kill 1 :|
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 04, 2018, 10:59:02 AM
the only thing you can do atm is to manually draft & shoot 'em or poke some sticks to 'em, & shooting downed animals 're soooooo inaccurate, it take 4 guys highly-skilled, with rifles, standing 5 tiles away, 30s~1min to kill 1 :|
I think if you stand 1-2 tiles away from a downed enemy, you get something like a +400% "Execution" accuracy buff.
Scenario: Tribal start
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Survival
Biome/hilliness: Arid, flat
Commitment mode: no (for testing branches, commiting in the main game)
Current colony age (days): 153
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer, Simple Stockpile Presets, Single Plant Texture Patch
- Heavy SMG at the same research as autopistols and machine pistons is weird. They are quite good now in some situations and I think they would fit better at "gas operation".
- I had 3 mechanoid drop pod raids recently and so far my conclusion is they are annoying but not much a challence. They always landed on my stockpile and damage materials. That's not impactful on the game if I craft something out of the stuff, but it reduces market value / sell price and just looks/feels bad damages stuff lying around from such incident (obviously a subjective thing only for people who care about this). It's fine if something get's damages while fighting, but yeah, from drop pods it's somehow just annoying. On top of that the enemies are way weaker than normal. Of cause this is good to a certain point because they surprise one right in their base, but 3 lancers (1. drop), 3 scythers (2.) and 4 lancers (3.) are not that much a challenge at that points in the game. The scythers may be the hardest one when one can't position well in a chokepoint so they might deal a reasonable amount of melee damage. Any other mech can just be tanked by any colonist to block them from using their weapon while my guys shoot them down quickly. I only had a causality this fight because friendly fire and multiple lancer hits focused on one leg of my brain damaged guy and destroyed it (which I wanted to replace anyway, so no big deal). Not sure if it's just bad luck that half of my latest raids are drop pods, but it feels too much. In fact I'm waiting for a strong normal raid since a season or so for various reasons and now I can probably wait for another cycle. I think in-base drop raids are a nice additional challenge and for variaty, but they shouldn't be the standard later. If it's to counter killboxes, keep in mind that many killbox bases are unter overhead mountain anyway, so it won't have a huge effect.
- Following that there is not much to do currently. That comes partly from the tribal start, so research is just so slow. I only have 2 colonists with research passion and a 3rd one without passion researches too since the beginning (started at 2 and is not at 13 int), but research is still really slow. I don't havee a problem with slow research alone, but with nothing happening in a colony. I do every quest if it's somewhat reasonable, start a trading caravan every few days and also don't have many colonist where it was normal to have free time. An "ask ally for a random quest" on the coms console might be an idea on the cost of reputation and/or silver.
- Can randomly ate my wakeup, got a overdose of course and chemical brain damage. This is already quite known in the community. Is this intended or just a long-lasting bug?
- When someone is crafting a weapon, the bill is blocked with the crafter/name. When that guy downed, the block on the bill was removed (but the block on the item still exists). Result: Another crafter starts to craft a second item of that bill (even if it's set to 1x).
- I notices there are also no letters for breakdowns now. I guess it is tied to the infection no letter bug.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, flat (river, road)
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: 193 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10
Complete mod list: None
OK, finally something bad actually happened to the colony. See cliff-like 'fun' graph... It's about how I feel about it too, haha.
Psychic ship part. The colony had already destroyed two of them, easily. This one though... About 8 scythers, 8 lancers, 8 centipedes (2 with inferno). I had 4 colonists killed outright within about 10 seconds, and it got worse from there... The screenshot is after tactically advancing in a retrograde direction, to stabilise the situation, followed by a couple of raids (on go-juice) to try to retreive the most critically injured downed pawns before they bled out.
Sounds fun, right? It is, it would be. Except...
Feedback 1: two of my animals went beserk (bonded master died?). Cute reaction, except... They were on the other side of the map. This felt a bit weird. Maybe this reaction should only happen if the animals are actually drafted and/or can see their master go down.
Feedback 2: rescuing pawns from an active firefight is very frustrating, as it's very difficult to manipulate the pawn's pathing. Specifically, I had some pawns that would be very easy to rescue if I could choose the route the rescuer would take once carrying the pawn. They could've dragged the pawn into cover, and then taken a safe path to the base. Instead, they pick the shortest path to a bed... Even though that path is basically suicide. Ideally I'd like drafted pawns to have 'pick up downed pawn' and 'drop downed pawn' orders, so I can choose the pathing manually in these sorts of situations.
Feedback 3: Inferno cannons... I find them SO unfun to play against. I like them in principle... But the pathing that burning colonists choose to use is much too frustrating. See the screenshot for an extreme example. Fitz was hit by inferno cannon in the doorway. Instead of diving back into cover (or towards the two colonists standing in arms reach, trying to put the fire out), he has instead decided to run 15 tiles north, go through a closed door, then come another 12 tiles back south, so that he can stand next to his attacker, THEN beat the fire out.
Earlier in the fight, another colonist caught fire. He was relatively safe in cover, near another colonist that could help, and even close to a river. Nope, run directly out of cover, straight across a continuous hail of charge blaster fire that the centipedes were already putting down. It was basically instant death.
I don't mind how hard the encounter was. I misplayed it. I was a bit too blase because I'd dealt with the previous two ship parts so easily (i.e. without even losing a limb), one of which had been very recently. There's definitely counterplay
- If I'd just armed two colonists with EMP grenades instead just one
- If I'd built one of the new turrets (although I try to play without turrets or traps, there's enough tactical depth in this game that I enjoy trying to play positionally instead of relying on overpowered fixed positions)
- If I'd popped firefoam on my positions before opening the ship
So, that's fine, I don't mind the initial slaughter, that's a good lesson. But suicides from minor burns, and the brave but insane rescue paths make me feel a bit salty :)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cass
Difficulty: Whatever Rough is currently called
Biome/hilliness: Taiga
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age:
Hours played in the last 2 days: bout an hour
Complete mod list: None
Quote from: dogthinker on August 04, 2018, 12:17:36 PM
Feedback 1: ...
Feedback 2: ...
Feedback 3: ...
Agree 100% including not liking turrets all that much. It's fun to succeed in this game from good tactical decision making. Sometimes it makes sense to take control out of the hands of the player, but pawns really need to be smart about what they decide to do in those situations or it just feels annoying having a star colonist lose a leg because they ran away from friendlies into the open and got lanced.
Also weird bug. "Kraus, Medic", who is not in my colony has gotten sleeping sickness and then plague in about 1 hour play time. Jump to location doesn't go anywhere and is greyed out. She also isn't the target of any rescue operation. Old-ish save though so maybe just a hiccup there.
Started a naked brutality, site randomly chosen, no rerolling pawns. What we got.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest Flat 30/60 growing
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 497 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20 -25
Complete mod list: None
Starting of, botched construction, incapable of cooking, yukky meals, oh I can craft some decent weapons and research them.
Gifts, it started of with 241 silver, well thanks, maybe some medicine with the next trader. Second one a good LMG, then a normal assault rifle. Two pawns with decent weapons and so early.
Then... some friendly people arrived.
You have been chosen, behold the sacred golden plate armor of Southwest Heba Marsh. You shall be the protector of this holy relic.
Thing sold for 8900, it proppeled me into midgame, but the raids..
It is still visible on the wealth chart when I got it and when I sold it.
Resources:
Components, advanced components and plasteel are the resources that are holding me back. Chemfuel , leather and drugs are moneymakers. It's a bit harder now to slaughter people but that would also be a good source of income. Chemfuel, leather might be to powerfull. Few clicks on the wildife tab and you're done.
All 15 of us are almost complete bionic except for a few ears, It's not so heavy on plasteel, but the components and advanced ones got me 3 level 19/20 crafters.
Hyperweave/Thrumbofur, I can keep my guys in thrumbostuff, 5 man with recurve bows (tried it with short bows, failed) complety in the open, no door cheese, are capable of taking one down, no bionics or fast walkers or something.
Thrumbo sounds nice I guess, it's mostly tactics not what you are wearing. Power armor is there for the mistakes. Devilstrand is quite good for fire tough, but to much effort when I can train shooting.
Inspirations:
It's nice having a comfy chair, but it's nicer to have a powerfull gun. But in 8 years time we got 1 legendary and 4 masterwork charge lances. Doubt if you should use them for armor. Trade one is a bit weird, recruitment can be prepared for. Trade might be good for if you move out. did not try that.
Tactics:
50+ OP turrets + mortars. Turrets hold the enemy in place then a carpet bomb does the rest. Melee units, rockets and the flamepede are the biggest enemy of larger turrets. Better have a horde of scythers around a turret then a horde around my pawn. Protect your turrets and the turrets protect your pawns, might be a good one here.
The smaller one's can be used as fodder.
https://imgur.com/xNgVH8m (https://imgur.com/xNgVH8m)
https://imgur.com/Ya3TfHE (https://imgur.com/Ya3TfHE)
https://imgur.com/n3wMbjE (https://imgur.com/n3wMbjE)
https://imgur.com/ytcST26 (https://imgur.com/ytcST26)
https://imgur.com/Kh23PS2 (https://imgur.com/Kh23PS2)
Trouble with showing pics, hope this works, haha
Quote from: Dargaron on August 04, 2018, 11:02:51 AM
I think if you stand 1-2 tiles away from a downed enemy, you get something like a +400% "Execution" accuracy buff.
Maybe 2 tiles, but if you stand 1 tile away your people lose all ability to shoot at the defenseless creature lying in front of them.
Quote from: dogthinker on August 04, 2018, 12:17:36 PM
But the pathing that burning colonists choose to use is much too frustrating.
Don't you just love it when your burning colonist decides it's a great idea to run towards 4 centipedes. I'm still not over how my Mosquito actually survived that without permanent damage :))
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 04, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: Dargaron on August 04, 2018, 11:02:51 AM
I think if you stand 1-2 tiles away from a downed enemy, you get something like a +400% "Execution" accuracy buff.
Maybe 2 tiles, but if you stand 1 tile away your people lose all ability to shoot at the defenseless creature lying in front of them.
Can you flag insects for hunting? (I've been on flat maps for the last few patches, so, no insects)
If so, you can have a hunter run around slitting throats.
Insects currently can't be flagged for hunting.
Also, chemfuel is worth less than the wood used to make it ($84 of wood to make $74 of fuel). Could still be a trade good if you exceed the limit of how much wood the trader will buy.
Quote from: fritzgryphon on August 04, 2018, 02:57:10 PM
Insects currently can't be flagged for hunting.
Also, chemfuel is worth less than the wood used to make it ($84 of wood to make $74 of fuel). Could still be a trade good if you exceed the limit of how much wood the trader will buy.
on the chemfuel, 'd chemfuel from simple meal be more efficient or boomalope?
's boomalope worth it? especially in mid/late game when simple meals 're abundant, not to mention the tameness reduction, last run there was a period of time when i've got ~40 animals, including huskies, retrievers, boomalopes, alpacas, muffalos, even with a team of 30-something colonists, all of whom can do handling, there were still 'defecting' animals reappearing on the map (mostly muffalo+boomalope) every couple of days (i didn't even know they defected lol, couldn't careless)
The past couple of says I've been seeing a update but it says 0 bytes/0 bytes downloaded, is this a Steam thing?
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 04, 2018, 03:51:47 PM
on the chemfuel, 'd chemfuel from simple meal be more efficient or boomalope?
's boomalope worth it? especially in mid/late game when simple meals 're abundant, not to mention the tameness reduction, last run there was a period of time when i've got ~40 animals, including huskies, retrievers, boomalopes, alpacas, muffalos, even with a team of 30-something colonists, all of which can do handle, there were still 'defecting' animals (mostly muffalo+boomalope) every couple of days
I've got a similar size herd, in a much smaller colony. I think 'can do' is not the same as 'should do' in this case. I think one or two
high level animal skill colonists doing all the handling on a high priority should be able to manage a herd of that size. You don't want low skill colonists assigned to the work, because they'll fail the training attempts, while still denying the high level colonists the chance to do the job properly (since there's a per animal cooldown on training attempts).
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 04, 2018, 03:51:47 PM
's boomalope worth it?
Since the handling skill is now useful for your hunters, boomalopes are even better than before. With boomalopes you get plenty chemfuel for your generators and fuel to launch gifts all over the place without the extra labour of getting the resource for your biofuel refinery.
Since training and milking them raises your handling level, I'd say it's very worth it to have your hunters also be handlers.
Boomalopes are awesome and a must have next to some muffalos.
- Caravan animals from other factions follow their owner when he goes eating on my table. I store my meals close by my table so my colonists don't need to walk much. Sadly this results in that the caravan animals start to eat my meals when they walk there. Just happened again and I lost a few lavish meals to chinchillas. Oh, and they also eat nearby crops any time.
- My own animals instantly walk over from whereever when I harvest ambrosia. I excluded the ambrosia plants already with a zone and the area around them, but sometimes when someone harvests a crop, he drops it 1 or 2 cells away, so out of the restricted zone in this case. I can't even force my colonist to haul them away, it gets canceled when an animal is eating it. This also happens sometimes with other crops, but for ambrosia the animals just seem to run instantly from across the map to eat them.
- Colonists sometimes act strange when they gather material for crafting or constructing. For some reason they sometimess prefer to take material which is further away from them and from the target. For some parts of this, I think they prefer to take something from their room and not the targets room, even if that would be closer. For other cases I didn't find a pattern. Like my cook has rice right next to him and the stove but prefers to get a stack on the other end of the room closer to the butcher table. But when he makes kibble on the butcher table, he goes for the rice stack right next to the stove.
- Using stockpile priorities can be a big waste of colonists time. I tried to put small stockpiles with high priority of rice next to the stove so the cook doesn't need to walk far. But everytime he grabs rice from the priority stockpile, someone else comes from further away to refill the missing 5 rice. Would be nice to have a settable limit or something so they only refill when a stack is empty or a simple timer may also do the job (after refilling, don't refill for the next ingame hour if it's not an empty cell).
- Also if someone starts to carry harvested rice from the fields, with priority stockpiles he now only carries 5 to fill the missing 5 rice in the priority stockpile and not 75 and put the rest on the stockpile next to it. Priority piles are nice to order stuff that lies around, but while working it is not very useful.
Quote from: fritzgryphon on August 04, 2018, 02:57:10 PM
Insects currently can't be flagged for hunting.
Sounds like maybe we need the ability to go bughunting when they're coming out of the walls. :P
cassandra rough, jungle, almost 3 years in, Tribal
Some quick feedback so far:
I'm playing with a pretty sloppy playstyle for fun, trying different things and not caring a whole lot and letting pawns do their thing most of the time. I have a good economy: beer, tea, art, and alpaca parkas. The 50/60 grow season helps to play a bit more frivolously, this was a random pick, I've never done a jungle before.
Lovin' the melee- picked up 2 shield belts from a trader kind of early on, I've never used melee so much in a playthrough (started in a17). So fun to just walk up to enemies- even mechs- and beat the crap out of them.
I have no idea what armor combos are good and don't really care, I just make some and let the non-melee pawns equip whatever they want. One combat death from a charge lance one-shot so far. I've had 2 brain injuries as well, seems more common than in the past? One incident with a poor marine helmet equipped v0v
Playing vanilla and not wanting to mod at the moment, 2 QoL life mods that I'd like to have are a sunlamp planner and cut blighted crops. Other than that nothing stands out as being missing or annoying.
Getting raided quite a bit but that's fine, the scaling seems reasonable. 3 small drop ins, 3 ships, and raids as usual. I'm not sure how to do the in-game screen cap on Linux or where they get saved...
When did we stop getting alerts for infections? I feel like that's an important enough event to warrant an alert.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Scenario: Naked Brutality
Difficulty: Merceliss
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (30/60), Small Hills
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 172
Hours played in the last 2 days: 17 hours
(1.0.1982, no mods)
I played on extreme 4 times on several different 1.0 versions. This was my longest lasting colony so far on 1.0, about a few days longer than a couple of my extreme colonies. It lasted 172 days.
- My largest complaint, which became most apparent in this playthrough, is the absolute effectiveness of just spamming the entrances of my colony with deadfall traps, despite their nerfs. It completely nullifies manhunter packs, and it caused most raids on me to flee with minimal bloodshed on the colony's part. The only time raids caused any real damage was during seiges, but once we got snipers, it was easy to start picking them off, until they attacked the colony directly. Before doing so, they only fought back by firing mortars, which, especially when my pawns were spread out, was ineffective, instead of just engaging with the snipers directly. The colony had to be attacked while most of the residence was out fighting a poison ship, before finally losing. It was also very easy to lure wild animals during the winter by leaving a couple of meals outside into my deadfall traps and esteemed gunmen.
- In the items list for stockpile zones/production benches, I think that human and insect meat should be put at the top of the meat subcategories like human and insect corpses.
- I never attended peace talks, as I felt it was pointless and expensive to become friends with the mean factions when I could just trade with the people that already liked my colony.
- I attempted to fulfill a trade request using a drop pod, and the faction just accepted it as a normal gift. Is this intentional? Am I overlooking the proper means to fulfill it using the pod, or am I unable to do this?
- Since the game now tells you exactly how long until your items spoil instead of rounding the days, why not do that when it is going to spoil in less than a day instead of just displaying "spoils in less than a day"? It would be a minor convenience.
- When the wildlife tab is taller than the screen, if you're queuing something to be hunted at the top of the list with a chance that it will fight back, the warning message displays over the queue for hunting and taming buttons, making them inaccessible for a duration.
- This one may be too focused on semantics, but pawns incapable of skilled labor are able to do medical, and pawns incapable of unskilled labor are unable to do crafting. The former is only a little misleading, and the latter makes sense because things like crafting weapons and armor should be skill-based, but this also means the pawn can't break down slag and chunks. I know this is nit-picky, and these decisions are probably for game balance, but I just thought I might bring it up.
(This last one is not from to this playthough.)
- Since I didn't have a good miner early on, one of my previous colonies had little access to steel, so it relied on campfires for heat and wood stoves for food. Since we started in the tundra, there was little wood. My colonist had put it our whole last stack (around 40) into the stove before I noticed, and our campfires were nearly burned out. I was unable to take it out without disassembling it. Some means of removing the wood by other means would be cool.
EDIT: Forgot my screenshots, whoops.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra, started rough
Difficulty: started rough but switched to savage about two years in
Biome/hilliness: Desert, small hills
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 330 something ish I think? not sure
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10 hours
Complete mod list: Numbers
Just finished my playthrough by sending the ship out. Starting with the classic crashlanded scenario in the desert and set up a basic base next to a river. I was doing a playthrough where I had one of my starting colonists designated a VIP and I had the goal of keeping her alive for the entire playthrough and getting her off the planet at all costs.
The first few years went by quite well, I was lucky to have a decent amount of soil so I was farming potatoes and corn and was raising a large (~30ish) army of labradors to fight my battles for me. I have to say the labrador army felt really balanced, at their best they could really do some damage but it certainly did take a lot of food and work to keep up and on harder raids I could have 5-15 labradors die just in one raid. My first and second colonist deaths were sudden, one of my colonists was struck in the heart by a scyther's first shot and killed instantly as he ran to cover and the other had her sternum shot out by a uranium turret a day after a battle when oen of the downed enemies got up to walk away and my the turret missed and shot my colonist instead. I lost two more colonists to friendly fire from turrets, both one shot through the back of the head when I forgot to tell the turret to cease fire.
After losing two of my colonists to a sapper raid that managed to get inside my base with grenades and rocket launchers (and kill 15 of my hounds in the process) I accepted a prisoner quest to save a prisoner from a pirate camp with some turrets and a guard. I formed a caravan of four of my best pawns and a camel, packed 6 days of food for the 2 day journey and set on my way. The rescue went off without a hitch, but on the way back is where the trouble came in. I had sent one of my colonists who was addicted to luciferium along with the caravan, but I had forgotten to pack a pill with him, and on the way back he began to enter luci withdrawal. To make the matter even worse, he was my VIP, the colonist I had sworn to protect even if it meant the life of every other colonist I had. I quickly sent a one man caravan out carrying nothing but some food and one pill of luci and set up a second colony where my VIP and his caravan stopped to rendezvous with the pillbearer. We got to the colony, the VIP took his pill and then decided before we go to raid an ancient danger, that too went off without a hitch but unfortunately the days without recreation, beds or tables had taken their toll on the colonists. Just after the ancient danger raid was finished four of my now 6 colonists (4 colonists from the initial caravan, one rescued prisoner and the pillbearer) decided to have a mental break. Normally this wouldn't be so bad but unfortunately for me, my VIP decided now would be a great time to go catatonic. With my VIP catatonic I could not leave the camp with him in tow, carrying his unconscious body was simply not an option the caravan screen gave me. So as we were running out of food we threw the VIP into one of the ancient danger cryptopods and made our way home. Once home we loaded pod launchers and sent two colonists over with some wood, steel, components and food, we planned to simply babysit the VIP in his catatonic state until he woke up and we could go home. After a few close raids at the camp our VIP finally woke up and we managed to evac him back to the safety of the motherbase. The entire process had been much more trouble then it should have been but ultimately it was really fun and i'm glad it happened.
Shortly after that we decided to build the ship to evac our VIP, we set it up, built the reactor, some of the components and one cryopod, only the VIP was allowed to leave. We powered up the reactor and prepared for a fight, i had never made the ship before so I didn't really know what to expect. The ship was not quite complete yet as I had only built one engine not knowing that I needed three so I was racing against time somewhat trying to procure enough uranium and advanced components to finish the final two engines.
The first few raids were tough, and we lost a few colonists, but we were managing pretty well. On the harder raids we would call for reinforcements and we were giving away tens of thousands of silver pieces to maintain our faction relationships. As the reactor timer ticked down though things got more and more hectic, short recovery times between raids had forced me to field smaller forces and our hound population was reduced from 50 to less than 20 suprisingly quickly. I lost a few colonists and there were perpetually colonists on mental breaks from the combined stress of them losing their wifes, daughters, fathers and bonded animals by the bushel but we were holding together. The worst raid was small tribal raid that should have been easy to deal with, they came as 3 small raiding groups simultaneously, but unfortunately I did not realize that until too late, if i had realized that the tribals were coming from three different raids i could have easily dealt with them, but my forces were all positioned to deal with only one raid. By the time I realized there were two other raiding parties they had a few of my stray colonists in their clutches. I scrambled to redirect my troops but the tribals were able to escape, taking 6 of my colonists hostage with them. This was a massive blow to me, up until then I had 15 colonists, now I had only 9, and one of them was catatonic, making my able bodied colonist count drop to 8, not including colonists tied up in sickbay and other mental breaks. I barely scraped by for the remainder of the countdown and my colonists were mental breaking left and right, luckily though we were able to hold on and we managed to get our VIP out without losing another colonist.
By the end the hallways of my base were painted red with blood, all of my colonists except the VIP were missing limbs, digits and eyes, but we had triumphed, we had got the VIP off the planet.
This was a really excellent playthrough, it was the first playthrough that I really started to use caravans and I found them to be really fun, I encountered no bugs and the balance seemed pretty good for the most part. I think i'm going to end my game here because I accomplished the goal i set out to accomplish , but this was definitely my best playthrough yet, and my first planet escape in 215 hours of play.
I liked the new deadfall traps a lot, I built them all out of stone as I was in a desert and I found them quite powerful, but still balanced as the 30 stone is takes to lay them adds up quick.
The uranium slug turrets were really really good, and I liked using them a lot, the power of those things is not to be trifled with, they one hit many pawns, (including some of my own colonists) and watching them instagib manhunting rhinos and elephants was really satisfying. I also feel like these are in a great place balancewise, they're extremely powerful long range, their massive explosion radius upon destruction, expensive cost and inability to fight close range balance them well IMO.
All in all this playthrough took 30 hours.
i just start a run today,
Cassandra Rough - Temperate Forest - Large Hill - 50 days
it's probably due to me being more used to Randy that i feel this run is quite hectic with all the raids she threw at my colony, & meteors too
the starting was quite normal, if not faster than my previous runs since this time i don't have to mine out mountain(s) for the base but simply put up fast-building wooden-wall rooms
since the game start, there were 4 caravan quests, the 1st 2 were "Peace Offer", the 1st one turned failure, meanwhile the 2nd success, which, in the end, negated each other out
then come the 3rd one, a caravan request, for 18 T-Shirt, in exchange for a power cell & a techprof, this could be very helpful early game indeed, imagine getting micro-electronic or geothermal instantly
the problem was, eventhough the caravan request was sent by a "close-by" settlement, it was not close at all, all because of the impassable mountain range in between, a travel which if go directly/straightly, should've take only 1.5-3 days to travel, now become a 9-10 days journey
and the quest only last 18 days!
so i got my best handler, with 10-skill in handling to immediately tame all those alpaca on the map
setting my best researcher on pemmican
then setting everyone having a gun on hunting down all the megasloths
everything was in a rush, the researcher finished the pemmican research in 2-3 days, in the mean time, another pawn's got to go dig out all the steel & component close by to build another electric stove
during that, the tailor tried her luck with all the wools & clothes, making 18 T-Shirts
right as the research finished, there was only ~14 days left, the tailor, Muffins was also the colony's cook, which mean she couldn't devote the whole time for the shirt order, then there was the neccessary pemmicans for the long travel too
it's now 10 days left & with all effort, Muffins & the other pawn, who has a 1-flame passion cooking skill 3, had barely made 300 pemmicans & finished the 18 shirts, luckily, there were a few Survival Pack Meals left over from the landing, totally just enough to support 2 people for ~20 days
the handler also barely managed to tame 5 alpacas, so out of 4 pawns, 2, 1 with a plasteel knife, 1 with bolt-action, set out for the request with 5 alpacas, ETA of 9.2 days to the settlement, with ~10 days left before the deal being closed
the other 2 not-so-skilled revolver-wielding pawns stayed behind to tend to the left-behind husky & boomalope, & there were 2 prisoners to feed too
just as the colony was divided into 2, a raid of 4 came...at the same with another space refugee pod ...
well, fortunately, with extreme careful kiting, the 4 pirates finally get pushed back, mostly by Muffins though as the other pawn, Hairy, the handler, get downed by a pirate shortly they invaded the base
Muffins this run since the start really was the one that kept the colony running, being highly-skilled & passionate in doctoring, cooking, constructing, planting, crafting, tailoring, smithing
----------------------------
in any case, the early caravan quest-giving is a bit rigged if there's a impassable mountain range in between, eventhough the distance was 'only' ~25 tiles by straight line, the snakey snakey road around the mountain range made it into something around >100
Quote from: Underscore on August 04, 2018, 07:12:05 PM
When did we stop getting alerts for infections? I feel like that's an important enough event to warrant an alert.
Tynan confirmed it's a bug that will get fixed.
>.> Apparently there's a hard cap of about 16 batteries for the game. Using 23:
Zzzt #1: 6 mortars and 2 LRMS blew up.
Zzzt #2: chemfuel generator blew up.
Thankfully not too much an issue at this point in the game, though.
Edit: actually I can just split the circuit. Ugh. 6 battery banks. nooooooooooooooo.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Toxic fallout on colder biomes prevents almost all wood harvesting for the next 3 years. The chance to kill trees should be reduced.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Savage
Biome/hilliness: Tropical Rainforest/Mountainous with a Stone Road as a feature, and a Year-Round Growing Period (Permanent Summer)
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days):
Hours played in the last 2 days:
Complete mod list: Kept it Core/Vanilla for the sake of playtesting
I'm writing this from the beginning, to help catalog issues or events of interest as they happen. As Tynan says, he wants to hear the stories. Well, let me tell you that I'm feeling this one. I'm starting with 5 tribespeople, and I'm looking to play with a survival goal/challenge. How long can they survive? How big can they grow? Could they conquer other factions? So far they're having trouble just researching!
That said, my starting position could be a lot worse. The road bends around a mountain and tucked away in a bottleneck is my little base, built to hold a bunch of sleeping spots. I walled off two different points of entry to my base and got to growing. In no time I had potato and rice stores. Over the first 17 days I had 3 raids of one person each. Must have been each tribe/colony sending scouts.
On day 20 or so, I had a refugee event asking me to take on a Core world Jeweler. I accepted without a thought, already up one person from a previous raid with a rival tribal faction. I had 3 colonists vs 3 outlanders, and I won quite easily, even with basic tribal stuff (and a shotty I'd picked up). I've captured another person from this, and am now breaking down his resistance. I've had many breakdowns from all the stress recently, however.
The people have grown tired of sleeping on the ground in a common room. They are unsatisfied with how long it is taking for me to mine out individual rooms. I can't blame them, as I should have dealt with it far sooner, but like I said: research has been an issue.
This post will be continued in a new post on this thread or edited in later when I return. Currently, it is 2 am and I have work at 6 lol
I've already sunk 4 hours or so into this tribe alone. This game is too good.
Quote from: zizard on August 05, 2018, 12:22:47 AM
Toxic fallout on colder biomes prevents almost all wood harvesting for the next 3 years. The chance to kill trees should be reduced.
I had one in boreal forest and there were plenty of trees left
Quote from: Serenity & zizard on August 05, 2018, 07:31:27 AM
...
I think that this is most noticeable in tundras because tundras spend around 75% of their time sub-zero, and their native plants (e.g. pine trees, astragalus) have the same hardcoded temperature range as saguaro cacti, meaning that they can't grow below 0 degrees and slow down below 10 degrees. Since tundras usually spend around 75% of their time sub-zero, it takes an extremely long time for trees to even get a high enough growth percentage to even be harvestable - assuming that alphabeavers and such haven't already eaten them by then.
As a result, tundras may have a bit of plant life when you first settle on one, but it doesn't take long for them to become as totally barren and desolate as ice sheets. The best fix for this would be to do something like open the temperature ranges to XML, and have cold biome-native plants be able to grow in lower temperatures.
Graphic suggestion:
EMP grenade icon and Frag grenade icon should be differently shaped, even slightly.
When colonists aren't drafted, their equipped weapon icons are grayscale and it is impossible to distinguish which of these two items is equipped without referring to the colonist window for description.
Malaria also disappear from the health panel after medicine treatment.
being able to set which pawn to do training or taming would be a great, in B18, i used Fluffy's Work Tab for it, but currently i use no Mod so it's quite annoying when the 'in-training' handlers keep "stealing" training work from the "veterans" & then fail while i only need them to go honing their skill on those wild animals across the map :| (a big number of handlers both highly-skilled & not) + (a gib number animals) = some of the animals eventually 'defect'
Trying to work out if this is a bug or not. I have a colonist with a carcinoma and have set an operation to excise it. It says the ingredients are 6 medicine and I have 25 in stock, yet when I try to get a doctor to prioritise it, it says "need ingredients." Is there something I am missing?
Quote from: mcduff on August 05, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
Trying to work out if this is a bug or not. I have a colonist with a carcinoma and have set an operation to excise it. It says the ingredients are 6 medicine and I have 25 in stock, yet when I try to get a doctor to prioritise it, it says "need ingredients." Is there something I am missing?
Make sure the patient is set to be allowed normal medicine.
Quote from: mcduff on August 05, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
Trying to work out if this is a bug or not. I have a colonist with a carcinoma and have set an operation to excise it. It says the ingredients are 6 medicine and I have 25 in stock, yet when I try to get a doctor to prioritise it, it says "need ingredients." Is there something I am missing?
Do you have more than 1 active medic? Make sure the other medic is not on his way to perform the surgery because that blocks you from assigning another medic manually.
Just draft the medic you don't want to do the work and then manually assign the one you want.
edit: maybe it has something to do with another colonist, in this case another medic, to be assigned to haul from your 1 stack of medicine, therefore your medic cannot find the resources. ??
Small weirdness in an art description:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/973227205249692534/1D93BA3D932284AD45D84929287094FDF38FA793/
The only things Lexi has ever crafted are sculptures, which I guess is what the "minified thing" is??
I think I had a memory leak last night and my first ever crash. I attempted to open the world map and got "Geyser spray sustainer still playing after 1000 ticks. Force-ending." and "Could not regenerate WorldLayer: System.OutOfMemoryException: Out of memory". crash.dmp is empty.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on August 05, 2018, 01:08:10 PM
Quote from: mcduff on August 05, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
Trying to work out if this is a bug or not. I have a colonist with a carcinoma and have set an operation to excise it. It says the ingredients are 6 medicine and I have 25 in stock, yet when I try to get a doctor to prioritise it, it says "need ingredients." Is there something I am missing?
Make sure the patient is set to be allowed normal medicine.
That was it. Can't work out why that guy was set to herbal medicine, though, especially because he had just got a bionic eye fitted too...
Quote from: mcduff on August 05, 2018, 03:02:05 PM
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on August 05, 2018, 01:08:10 PM
Quote from: mcduff on August 05, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
Trying to work out if this is a bug or not. I have a colonist with a carcinoma and have set an operation to excise it. It says the ingredients are 6 medicine and I have 25 in stock, yet when I try to get a doctor to prioritise it, it says "need ingredients." Is there something I am missing?
Make sure the patient is set to be allowed normal medicine.
That was it. Can't work out why that guy was set to herbal medicine, though, especially because he had just got a bionic eye fitted too...
was he ever gotten arrested once? the medicine 'policy' immediately set to herbal, but not reset back upon release
Damn allied help. Almost killed my 2 pawn by crushing roof on their head. Is it possible to land such reinforcments a bit more accurately?
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Scenario: Naked Brutality
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forrest (30 days growing) with a small river and large hills
Commitment mode: No, though I play in that style
Current colony age (days): 77
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8
Complete mod list: None
My plan for this time was to only accept good pawns. It didn't really work -- too many events now where you simply can't see what a colonist will be before recruiting, and RNG decided that no one even remotely good would raid me and not get killed. I took an incapable of research pawn (named Lightning) as my starting person, which as I approached day 50 with still only a single colonist became more and more clearly a huge mistake.
Thoughts from playthrough
- I'm seeing some issues with pawns picking up whole stacks of items -- I'll tell them to haul a pile of berries, and instead of grabbing the first stack and then other stacks near it, they pick up only part of the first stack, and nothing else. So I tell them to grab a pile of 21 berries, with 3 piles of 8, 4, and 7 nearby. And instead of hailing 40 berries, the pawn grabs 6 from the first pile.
- Not trivial to reproduce, but I'm seeing it pretty frequently.
- Edit: yeah, this is happening almost every time I give a haul order manually.
- Edit: I think this has something to do with the hoppers -- pawn is trying to fill them so only grabs enough berries to top off a stack. Then when I reissue the order, for some reason he hauls a full stack to the non-hopper stockpile.
- Quick sleeper is an amazing trait, especially on Naked Brutality.
- While I remained at one colonist until day 51, I did get a number of prisoner rescue type quests. But there's just no way I'm caravanning with one person and no long term food source on Merciless. All my prior experience with caravanning tells me every event is a trap. But it's clear that my "forever alone" run is mostly my own fault.
- On day 29 I noticed that my pawn has never failed to construct a wall this run: looks like his sucess chance is 100% b/c he isn't injured. Interesting change -- I like never failing on consturcing walls/floors, but it feels like I should sometimes fail when building other (harder) stuff, even though the penalty there is higher. Failing constructing a wall happened so often it just felt anoying, but was such a minor cost it didn't add any "please don't fail constructing" moments (like I feel when my pawn is using the last component on some critical new building I need).
- Blight seems worse now. B18 blight felt too easy. This doesn't feel too hard, but it's creates a sad kind of micro where I just have to pause and click *soooo* many times to tell my pawns to cut the blighted plants. I wish there was a "cut blighted" tool I could just drag over a field.
- The new dessicated animal corpses look great.
- Has opportunistic hauling been disabled? I'm basically never seeing my pawns use it. Even when they are heading back to do stuff right next to my stockpile (like, within 5 squares of it).
- Animals hunting your colonists for food avoid traps. I just watched a cougar zig-zag through my trap field to attack my dog
Story: Alone Foreverday 2: Visitor gives me a gift of 147 silver
day 8: Visitor gives me a gift of 11 medicine, faction approval: 0
day 13: Lightning observes a corpse after a raid with a psychic drone and goes on a minor break: tantrum, and destoys all 31 components we had gotten from ship parts.
- Feels weird that I am more worried about minor mental breaks than major ones. I'd much rather see a berserk than a tantrum.
- since i still only have one colonist, there was nothing I could do except watch.
- On the bright side, that drops my wealth by about 1000, so maybe my colonist was really just trying to make the colony safer
day 16: Second wild man wanders in. I'm still at one colonist.
day 17: A lynx hunts my colonist for food, scratches him twice. I self tend and set to bedrest. Pawn literally stays in bed, starving himself, until he is fully healed. I didn't force him to "rest until healed," but that was the behavior I saw (I triple checked b/c I couldn't believe he would get out of bed to feed himself once he was fully rested).
Of note: I'm running a wood generator and paste dispensor, both of which I rarely do. Is there no way to force a pawn to eat from the paste dispensor? Is that why my pawn refused to feed himself while sick? (it also made the loss of 31 components so much more painful. The pawn could not have choosen any other item in the colony more damaging to his own survival to destroy. Perhaps pawns should not destroy entire stacks of extremely valuable items? Just partial stacks?)
day 20: Wild man number 3. Too bad my animal handing is only at 4, making all these wild man events worthless. Well, that's harsh. It's fun to watch them walk around/hunt and gather. And it's funny to think about how many wild man there must be on this rimworld to see three in 20 days. It's quite the little pack of wild men circling my berry patch.
day 24: Visitors give me 3 glitterworld meds
day 25: When my berry patch is harvested, the wild men are reduced to eating carrion: the corpses from my raids (I threw them into an open building to rot rather than burying them)
day 29: It's the middle of fall and I celebrate by gathering up the corpses of my 3 wild man companions and hauling them to the corpse pile. Hypothermia took them all.
day 30: Shaman trader gives me a gift of an excellent wolfskin t-shirt. This is getting a bit ridiculous -- so far every non hostile has felt so sorry for me that they left me a present.
But I guess I am living down in a cave by the river.day 40: The local tribal
SLAVER felt so bad for me they left me a good silver knife. I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, having everyone, including the slaver, give me gifts seems crazy. On the other hand, it's day 40 and I am still alone. Plus, *silver* knife.
day 46: raider lights himself on fire outside my base.
Alone forever.day 49: another trader gives me 2 glitterworld meds
day 51: I take a refugee event b/c apparently I'm never going to down a raider. AJ joins, and she's okay (not good, but okay). But of course she can't researc either :(
day 58: Bud, a wanderer with psychite and wake-up additictions joins. But she has level 1 research! I guess I'll keep her around until she goes crazy and kills herself mid-raid. We'll see I can at least get recurve bows before she suicides. She came in with some wake up and flake, so we'll see.
day 59: Bud ODs on flake.
day 64:
- Bud has spent most of her time since she joined in a psychotic state, and now goes catatonic. She did manager about 100 points of research in there though. So maybe in another year we'll have recurve bows.
- Lightning gets malaria.
- Thanks to the good meds visitors gifted us, AJ is able to help both malaria ridden Lightning and catatonic Bud through their issues.
day 67: I get my first multi raider raid. 3 guys with knifes, and one with a machine pistol. Bud is still catatonic, so it's up to AJ and still malarial Lightning to fend them off.
day 71: Bud is still catatonic. It's a bit hard to tell though -- that state isn't listed in her health tab, or on her info screen, and her name isn't colored. So sometimes I forget and think she's just sleeping and will wake up. While she's out cold I burn the last of the drugs she came in with. Don't do drugs kids.
day 74: Actually, I don't think Bud's catatonic anymore. I *think* what's happening is that while she was catatonic her wake up and psychite withdrawals proceeded far enough that she can no longer move: she's got a combo penalty of -40% movement and -70% consiousness. Well, I guess that's fine. I guess she probably wont suicide.
day 76: Second multi person raid. Pistol, shotgun, grenades. Grenades carried by a frail, altimers guy who goes into a confused state immediately. But they wander, so he recoveres in time to attack. Traps fend them off. Looks like even though traps are single use, they still can be set to auto-rearm? What would that even do now? About half the time it looks like auto-rearm is true by default (maybe when the traps are in home zone?) and half the time is is false by default. I set them all to true and we'll see what happens.
A mad muffalo comes and pounds on my door. What's this about manhunter animals not attacking doors?
day 79: I get my first downed raider who isn't completely terrible. I'm gonna call this the end of "forever alone"
That's all for now. I'm not sure if I'm going to continue this colony, but I felt like I had enough feedback from this admittedly weird run to share.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest (30 days growing) flat
Commitment mode: No, don't want to lose my colony to save corruption
Current colony age (days): 7
Hours played in the last 2 days: 6
Complete mod list: Hugslib, Rimfridge, Additional Lights, Numbers.
So new colony and I have had 2 gifts already from visitors and caravans (had one of each visit me in 7 days) and both left me a gift because I was "having a hard time". I'm not having a hard time Mr Random Lone Traveler who left me 51 plasteels. Nor am I having a hard time Mr Caravan I just bought 2 advanced components from you for about 600 silver so why do you think I need a 351 silver gift?
Yesterday on another colony at the start I was gifted 11 glitterworld meds and 351 silver again.
I'm not having a hard time. I have food, crops growing, store room, production and bedrooms. These gifts are too much and unwanted. Firstly they can make the early game too easy (11 glitterworld meds means I am essentially safe from disease and infection even if I don't have a medic), secondly they add wealth to your colony early game. Now if I was actually having a hard time then maybe I could appreciate a gift especially if it was relevant to my situation.
Also can we get patch notes again? Hard to test things if you don't know what to test. I'm not going to test traps for example if I don't know something's changed as I rarely use them.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 478 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+
Complete mod list: None
v.1982
Game Notes:
-I had a rather unpleasant scenario last night fighting a Centipede that I still can't explain. Here's the screenshot, and note the positions of the colonists Ed, Chris and Yates:
(https://i.imgur.com/al151KG.png)
Only 1 colonist was within the maximum range of the Centipede's Heavy Charge Blaster, yet 3 colonists were hit by it. 2 of the 3 were in full Flak Armor (Pants/Vest/Jacket), with another wearing Masterwork Steel Plate Armor, and 2 of the 3 sustained a 60% injury. If someone can reasonably explain how this happened, I'm all ears: my understanding is that if you're out of range, you're at a 0% chance of getting hit. It left me having some concerns about the current state of combat mechanics.
Last night's Graphs:
(https://i.imgur.com/SuHHMwY.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YLBPz2s.png)
Weapons like miniguns and charge blaster that have forced miss radius actually can miss further than their maximum effective range. Charge blaster probably has forced miss radius of 2 tiles(?). It was shooting at tile 30 (where Ed was standing) but missed and those missed shots traveled futher hitting tiles 31 and 32 (numbers are purely for example). If something was occupying those two tiles - it has a massive chance to get hit with those missed projectiles. This is why you never want to clump up your people when fighting mechanoids and people with miniguns.
Actually scratch all of that, forced miss radius was deprecated it seems (at least its no longer mentioned in the info panel of those weapons, that used to have it). Just any weapon's missed shot can land on any random adjacent tile to its target. So centipede shot at Ed, missed him, the projectile landed a tile behind Ed. Your other guy was standing there so he get his deserved smack. Weapon's effective range only shows at which distance this weapon can aim. Projectiles from it can fly 1-2 tiles further, when they miss.
This is why you never want to clump up your people. Missed shots from any weapon against one pawn can easily hit another thats standing on adjacent tile.
You asked for play stories, so here goes. I've been attempting the "Naked Brutality" scenario lately, and I thought I'd share a few of my stories thus far.
A quick preface: I have consider myself to be relatively experienced with Rimworld (I have around 260 hours in the game), and yet most of my colonies in this scenario have lasted no more than a few days. Despite this, I've been enjoying the Naked Brutality as much as if not more than the classic scenarios. I've found that the added challenge presented by starting with nothing makes the colonist traits, native resources, and events far more meaningful than in other scenarios, which helps to build a stronger story from the game. As I played, I found that my goal for the game shifted from one of "achieve a thriving colony" to "keep the colony alive as long as possible". By changed the way I played the game, I found that I was more invested in mastering this scenario (which I haven't yet come close to doing).
Here follows an account of my first four colonies. For all of the four colonies I used the following setup:
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Medium
Seed: Random
Starting Location: Random
Initial Colonist: Random
Colony 1 (Arid Scrubland, Flat, lasted 3 days):
First, there was Toto. Toto was a 19 year old manboy who was intelligent, but otherwise useless. Toto crash-landed in an arid scrubland and immediately started out harvesting cacti for wood, collecting berries and agave fruit from nearby bushes, and planting potatoes. He took up residence in an abandoned ruin, and successfully constructed a bed and fueled stove. Unfortunately, running about collecting berries all day gave Toto heatstroke and confined him to his bed. Over the course of the next day, Toto's heatstroke got worse, and he became malnourished as he was unable to safely exit his home. Finally, it was safe for Toto to leave his abode in search of agaves to eat - or so he thought. Then the rabbit came. Just as Toto left his home in search of food, a mad rabbit came out of nowhere and attacked. Toto fought the bunny valiantly, but lost. Toto was unable to stand after the rabbit attack, and ended up dying from a combination of heatstroke, starvation, and blood loss.
Colony 2 (Desert, Small Hills, lasted 2 days):
Next, there was Maya. Unlike Toto, Maya was a generally competent individual who had the misfortune of landing in the desert. She spent her first day constructing a bed, taking residence in a ruin, and growing potatoes - just like Toto. On her second day Maya became incredibly hungry, and with no plants to harvest her only food source was a nearby emu. She was not skilled enough to craft a bow, so instead Maya created a steel knife and attacked the unsuspecting emu. However, the emu proved to be a worthy adversary and downed Maya with two powerful strikes before escaping. Unable to stand, Maya eventually died of a combination of blood loss and malnutrition.
Colony 3 (Temperate Forest, lasted ~4 days)
Third, there was Nerhesi. Nerhesi was a beautiful, gay, multi-talented ex-ace pilot, and at first he seemed to do better than his predecessors. He built a house, farm, and storage area without issue, and feasted on the plentiful berry bushes nearby. He killed a mad gazelle with his bare hands, and afterwards created a steel knife with which to fend off attackers. Sure enough, after a few days Nerhesi was attacked by a brute from a nearby pirate band. An intense knife fight ensued between the beautiful ex-pilot and his assailant, in which Nerhesi was downed. Unable to stand, Nerhesi was kidnapped by the pirate and never seen again.
Colony 4 (Boreal Forest, Small Hills, lasted 2 quadriums and 5 days)
Then there was G. Right from the start, G was the best colonist one could hope for. He was tough, and was skilled with ranged weapons. He could craft, construct, mine, grow, and cook with the ability of a capable amateur, and he was a professional medic. Somehow he had learned all of these skills from his previous job as a teacher. Upon landing on the rim world, G took a different approach than his predecessors. Instead of gathering food or building a home, he spent his entire first day mining steel and compacted machinery from a nearby mountain. On the second day, he built a windmill and an electric stove. By the end of the second day, G was ravenously hungry and still lacked the impressive bedroom he had desired since the moment he landed. Therefore, on his way to a patch of berries which would undoubtedly satisfy his hunger, G decided to go into a sad wander. As G spent the next 24 hours milling about dejectedly in the rain, he became increasingly hungry, tired, and deprived of recreation.
However, on the dawn of the third day, things began to change. G broke out of his sad wander, quickly devoured the entire patch of berry bushes, and built a house next to his windmill. A kind visitor emerged from a marsh and left a pair of pants on the ground for G to wear, before running off. Later, two alpacas appeared from the same marsh, and joined the colony willingly. The wonder of the day's events inspired G to shoot more accurately for the next 8 days. Over the course of the next two quadrics, things went well for G. A man named Santiago came to raid the colony, but G defended his abode bravely thanks to his inspired shooting. Santiago temporarily escaped death by setting G's potato farm on fire and distracting him, however Santiago died of blood loss minutes later in a nearby marsh. G survived the encounter relatively unscathed, and was able to build the bedroom he had long desired. He also built a freezer and a storage room, and harvested the patch of berries once more. An injured pawn appeared in an escape pod, but stood up and attempted to flee the map before G could capture him. The escaped pawn was later found dead in a marsh near Santiago, and G stole both of their clothes.
Over the course of the next few days the colony was beset by two more raids and a mad muffalo, however G easily defended against his melee - dependent attackers with his shortbow. One of his assailants, a skilled bowman and medic named Haynes, G was able to capture. For the next few days as G hunted muffalo and expanded his home, Haynes remained prisoner in G's storage room until he could be recruited. However, one day in mid fall, Haynes decided he had had enough. He rushed for a spare shortbow and engaged in a close - range shootout with G in a desperate attempt to escape. It was on this fateful day that G's luck ran out. Haynes' arrow struck true, and pierced G in the head, damaging his brain. G fell on the floor, his consciousness fading, as Haynes stepped over his body and out the door to freedom. Unable to stand, G died of his wounds shortly thereafter. He never achieved his sole goal of owning an impressive bedroom.
In short:
Toto was killed by a bunny.
Maya was killed by an emu.
Nerhesi killed a gazelle with his bare hands, but was kidnapped by a man.
G killed one rabbit, an entire herd of muffalo, and three pirates before he took an arrow to the brain and died.
Things I learned:
Protect colonist heads, brains are important and easily damaged.
Berries are a fantastic food source during the warmer seasons.
A downed colonist is a dead colonist - always fight with ranged weapons.
Hope that was helpful!
Quote from: Madman666 on August 05, 2018, 07:00:14 PM
Weapons like miniguns and charge blaster that have forced miss radius actually can miss further than their maximum effective range. Charge blaster probably has forced miss radius of 2 tiles(?). It was shooting at tile 30 (where Ed was standing) but missed and those missed shots traveled futher hitting tiles 31 and 32 (numbers are purely for example). If something was occupying those two tiles - it has a massive chance to get hit with those missed projectiles. This is why you never want to clump up your people when fighting mechanoids and people with miniguns.
Actually scratch all of that, forced miss radius was deprecated it seems (at least its no longer mentione in info panel of those weapons that used to have it). Just any weapon's missed shot can land on any random adjacent tile to its target. So centipede shot at Ed, missed him, the projectile landed a tile behind Ed. Your other guy was standing there so he get his deserved smack.
This is why you never want to clump up your people. Missed shots from any weapon against one pawn can easily hit another thats standing on adjacent tile.
I know full well that you don't want to mass your colonists against Miniguns/LMG's/Charge Blasters. But you
do want to line up when mass-firing against an approaching Scyther, which is exactly what was happening here. The Mech to the NW wasn't being engaged...the dead Scyther to the SW was. I was keeping an eye on what was moving in on me at the time, and believed that I knew that I was (for the moment) out of the Centipede's effective range. Even at the very maximum range, which only one colonist was in, I'm surprised that a charge blaster shot inflicted a 60% wound.
So, in essence,
the "forced miss" mechanic essentially caused the Charge Blaster shots to travel further than they are physically capable of travelling?
That's flat-out broken. I wish there was a kinder way to phrase it.
Nope, its not broken and this was in the game since forever. Any weapon can miss a tile further than its max effective range. And its logical - if a bullet misses you, its not going to just plop down on the ground because it reached its max range. It'll fly past you and hit something else. Your guy in this case. Max effective range doesn't mean that it can't fly further. It just means you can't take aim effectively past that distance is all.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: ~700 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 12+
Complete mod list: None
3 more years. Everyone is Jensen. The jensen where you choose the right dialogue that is. In total I've got about 50 bionics installed among 9 colonists. Everyone has dual legs, everyone has a bionic heart and uses wake-up whenever they want. Arms/eyes/etc are spread around.
With 20+ batteries in the main bank, Zzzzts start incinerating entire rooms. However, even if chemfuel is cheap, it cuts into my profits, so I like my windmills. I split my circuit in three: turrets on a line that is 100% chemfuel always on, and my production in two circuits powered entirely by windmills. Later, a fourth circuit is a hydroponics powered by chemfuel as I'm running out of space for windmills.
Doing a quick calculation, I find that my power armor is simply not worth it: literally over 1/3 of my item wealth is from armor. I have everyone who isn't in masterwork torch their excellent power armor (I'm sure some newbies cried reading this :D). This leaves a single "shielded heavy tank" in legendary armor that is used mostly as a distraction in raiding parties and to suicidally throw EMPs and dangerous mechanoid clumps. Everyone who isn't a heavy tank gets the "ranger" assignment and simply gets a heavy fur park, cloth pants, and a flak vest. Flak * other than vest is godawful.
Drop pods have been starting to hit regularly. So far no centipedes, so I just open the door and then follow me into some turrets and get vaporized. In one case one of my rangers gets storytold by a lancer as I was careless: these guys aren't really supposed to see frontline action :'( Damned good colonist, too. High intellectual constructor shooter. I completely forget that I can just freeze her and hope for a serum, and torch her first. Whoops.
I've been doing about 10 lumps a year now, each with a shield tank and 3 rangers. These have varied pretty wildly in difficulty. 13 tribals completely surrounding you from all sides is the worst ambush. Luckily I got out of there alive, but with 20 that could be fatal for all 4 raiders. As my raid points increase, while previously I had done nothing but threat:none, I am considering doing everything but those.
Notably, my one fear, that I will get raided during a lump/stash raid... It turns out this fear is misplaced: As my wealth increases, a significant part of the raid points comes from colonists, so I literally ended up fighting 3 lancers when I got drop podded once. It seems like anyone who wants to have an easy time launching the ship on merciless can just limit themselves to 4 colonists and spam turrets and spike traps. But my goal is just to make the most obscenely rich sea ice fort in existence.
In 10 years I have yet to get a decent item stash opportunity. My criteria for those are, since they're so dangerous, that I need to be able to get something good that I can't make or buy myself. Orbital strikes and serums pretty much.
As my fort starts to get more heavily fortified, I can finally handle centipede clusters and let up on the gas on screwing with the raid point system. Eventually a cluster of 8 comes along, and with some emp grenades and turrets they blow up before they can knock one out. they're still pretty dangerous on sea ice though. You just can't afford to lose that many buildings.
The massive spikes up and down in raid points is again me going lumping :D There's a lot of these.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 07:13:57 PM
...
So, in essence, the "forced miss" mechanic essentially caused the Charge Blaster shots to travel further than they are physically capable of travelling?
That's flat-out broken.
Im pretty sure this applies to
any misses. Not just a "forced miss".
And frankly it is not broken. The idea that a miss can hit the ground behind the target is not "broken". The problem is that the description and stats don't describe or take into account the maximum
collateral range.
It would be better if the range values were labeled something along the lines of "effective range" or that there was some kind of warning somewhere that mentions that misses can hit behind targets even at maximum range.
Quote from: Madman666 on August 05, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
Nope, its not broken and this was in the game since forever. Any weapon can miss a tile further than its max effective range. And its logical - if a bullet misses you, its not going to just plop down on the ground because it reached its max range. It'll fly past you and hit something else. Your guy in this case. Max effective range doesn't mean that it can't fly further. It just means you can't take aim effectively past that distance is all.
Quote
Im pretty sure this applies to any misses. Not just a "forced miss".
And frankly it is not broken. The idea that a miss can hit the ground behind the target is not "broken". The problem is that the description and stats don't describe or take into account the maximum collateral range.
It would be better if the range values were labeled something along the lines of "effective range" or that there was some kind of warning somewhere that mentions that misses can hit behind targets even at maximum range.
Please direct me to the statistic which differentiates between "range", "effective range", or "collateral range".
(https://i.imgur.com/SAEIZl6.png)
Range indicates one thing only: the maximum distance which that projectile can travel.
The
accuracy within that range is already broken down into 4 seperate categories: Close, Short, Medium, and Long.
There is no fifth category here, nor is one implied.
Any game mechanic which allows a projectile to travel past it's set maximum range is broken.
Inb4 Tynan renames "range" into "effective range", which if we follow your logic will mend this mechanic, to be not broken. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote from: Madman666 on August 05, 2018, 07:44:17 PM
Inb4 Tynan renames "range" into "effective range", which if we follow your logic will mend this mechanic, to be not broken. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My logic?
If a Short Range Ballistic Missile has a maximum range of 650 miles, this means something.
It means it cannot magically travel 700 miles.I'm finding it hard to fathom how this is even an issue that's debatable.
Well you said it yourself - "If a Short Range Ballistic Missile has a maximum range of 650 miles, this means something." If we remove the word "maximum" (which actually isn't used anywhere, its just "range" in the game), replace it with "effective" and leave all other values in place - it should all be fine and not broken. Because you will only have "effective range", while "maximum range" will remain unknown to you, justifying what happened to your guy, as he now was out of its effctive range, not maximum.
Give it up, its already a miracle, that we even see that uber-convenient "range-radius", when we select an enemy in the first place. At best you ll achieve, that descriptions on the "Range" weapon stat will be made more clear, which is fine by me.
Quote from: Madman666 on August 05, 2018, 07:55:33 PM
Well you said it yourself - "If a Short Range Ballistic Missile has a maximum range of 650 miles, this means something." If we remove the word "maximum" (which actually isn't used anywhere, its just "range" in the game), replace it with "effective" and leave all other values in place - it should all be fine and not broken. Because you will only have "effective range", while "maximum range" will remain unknown to you, justifying what happened to your guy, as he now was out of its effctive range, not maximum.
I'm done arguing semantics.
The only statistic provided here is "Range", which is clearly defined. This "Range" is broken out into four "effective" categories of accuracy, also clearly defined. "Long" range covers the maximum distance of accuracy. There IS no further statistical probability of getting hit beyond "Long".
Long
IS the maximum distance.
2 of 3 pawns got hit beyond "Long" range. That's broken.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 08:02:05 PM
The only statistic provided here is "Range", which is clearly defined. This "Range" is broken out into four "effective" categories of accuracy, also clearly defined. "Long" range covers the maximum distance of accuracy. There IS no further statistical probability of getting hit beyond "Long".
Long IS the maximum distance.
2 of 3 pawns got hit beyond "Long" range. That's broken.
Long range is defined in Accuracy (Long) as 40 tiles and more. Your people were closer than 40 tiles. They were hit not beyond long range.
(https://image.ibb.co/chiw8z/image.png)
I had a raider with no helmet get headshot by an uranium slug cannon for 23 damage, but the guy before with a flak vest took 75 damage to the torso and instantly died (obviously).
Is there some sort of grazing system or did this raider get extremely lucky with somehow not having their head evaporated by an uranium slug?
Quote from: Madman666 on August 05, 2018, 08:08:51 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 08:02:05 PM
The only statistic provided here is "Range", which is clearly defined. This "Range" is broken out into four "effective" categories of accuracy, also clearly defined. "Long" range covers the maximum distance of accuracy. There IS no further statistical probability of getting hit beyond "Long".
Long IS the maximum distance.
2 of 3 pawns got hit beyond "Long" range. That's broken.
Long range is defined in Accuracy (Long) as 40 tiles and more. Your people were closer than 40 tiles. They were hit not beyond long range.
(https://image.ibb.co/chiw8z/image.png)
Now please explain, clearly and concisely, what both the "Range" of 27 for a Charge Blaster and the corresponding graphic radius that is visible on the screen when clicking on ANY weapon in the game are supposed to indicate.
@greep I hope you are appropriately treating your weapons, it would be a real pity if their resale value tragically tanked through a mishap!! good luck making it to max point raids, I believe in you~
blabla merciles / cas / biggest commitment / noob biome / year 4
I decided to ethically fight 80 tribal sappers (e.g. not path manipulating them into a totally fair kill setup), unfortunately now due to lack of funneling the tribals cannot be conveniently torched since they managed to break into my super secret storeroom. Imagine this but like 10x over strewn through my base.
(https://i.imgur.com/gGw6QyM.png)
disrespectful!
Without my army of hauler doggos and careful pawn criteria (anyone not at least optimist+one other good trait gets tossed) I fear my pawns would be driven mad many times over now at the sight of corpse strewn base. Who would have known that tribals could invent such psychologically destructive tactic on par with an early progression psychic ship simply by using their dead bodies. At least mechanoids don't bleed over my carefully curated floors and drop worthless weapons further taxing my poor haulers :(
Now for those of you who are actually wealth managing and ethical players, thus cannot afford the raid point boost from haul-doggos, what is your corpse disposal mechanism? I feel like this and ultra wealth control are the true hallmarks differentiating idiots like me and true masters of the game
PS anyone know whether bionic heart users can take heart attacks??
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 07:37:36 PM
Range indicates one thing only: the maximum distance which that projectile can travel.
...
Any game mechanic which allows a projectile to travel past it's set maximum range is broken.
At no point does the game imply or describe a maximum range.
The very fact that you can qualify a range as maximum implies that range alone is not the maximum.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 07:49:53 PM
If a Short Range Ballistic Missile has a maximum range of 650 miles, this means something.
It means it cannot magically travel 700 miles.
I'm finding it hard to fathom how this is even an issue that's debatable.
Im wondering how it is debatable as well.
If a missile has a maximum
fuel range of 650 miles, then when that fuel runs out it will continue along it's trajectory,
past it's stated fuel range, until the combined forces of gravity and air friction pulls it to the ground. How much farther past it's stated "maximum" fuel range it travels is a function of it's velocity and trajectory when it ran out of fuel, it's altitude, and the forces of gravity and air resistance.
Bullets work the same way, except they expend their fuel as they leave the barrel of the gun.
This is not semantics. Its basic physics. There is no such thing as a maximum range.
Ask that of Tynan, if you want a 100% correct information. For me "Range" stat of 27 on a weapon means it can be successfuly aimed at a target situated within 27 tiles of a pawn wielding it. Corresponding graphic radius shows exactly that, you can aim at anything within it, you can't at anything further. It never said anything about max range anywhere, so i see no reason to assume it is.
Let's take EMP's.
An EMP has a "Range" of 13. Note the limit of the circle is exactly 13 tiles. Why is this indicated? So I know that I cannot throw it 14 tiles. Or 15.
RANGE INHERENTLY IMPLIES MAXIMUM DISTANCE OF TRAVEL.
(https://i.imgur.com/vAh1tNh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IyOF1a4.png)
Quote from: bbqftw on August 05, 2018, 08:22:52 PM
PS anyone know whether bionic heart users can take heart attacks??
So far every lump raid, I've had the 4 terminators take wake up. No heart attacks yet. Seems unlikely, but hard to say yet.
As for corpses disposal, luckily I can take my sweet ass time. On sea ice they stay fresh so I can even leave corpses everywhere if I want. -7 I can deal with.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 08:32:30 PM
Let's take EMP's.
An EMP has a "Range" of 13. Note the limit of the circle is exactly 13 tiles. Why is this indicated? So I know that I cannot throw it 14 tiles. Or 15.
RANGE INHERENTLY IMPLIES MAXIMUM DISTANCE OF TRAVEL.
Grenades have an AoE.
The AoE extends past the stated range.
It will produce the exact same situation that kicked off this tirade(EDIT: that we are both fueling, which is why I will be stopping after this).
The stated range is
not maximum.
Quote from: erdrik on August 05, 2018, 08:26:16 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 07:37:36 PM
Range indicates one thing only: the maximum distance which that projectile can travel.
...
Any game mechanic which allows a projectile to travel past it's set maximum range is broken.
At no point does the game imply or describe a maximum range.
The very fact that you can qualify a range as maximum implies that range alone is not the maximum.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 07:49:53 PM
If a Short Range Ballistic Missile has a maximum range of 650 miles, this means something.
It means it cannot magically travel 700 miles.
I'm finding it hard to fathom how this is even an issue that's debatable.
Im wondering how it is debatable as well.
If a missile has a maximum fuel range of 650 miles, then when that fuel runs out it will continue along it's trajectory, past it's stated fuel range, until the combined forces of gravity and air friction pulls it to the ground. How much farther pasted it's stated "maximum" fuel range it travels is a function of it's velocity and trajectory when it ran out of fuel, it's altitude, and the forces of gravity and air resistance.
Bullets work the same way, except they expend their fuel as they leave the barrel of the gun.
This is not semantics. Its basic physics. There is no such thing as a maximum range.
I really don't even know how to address all the flaws of logic in the statements that you just made. My head is actually starting to hurt from this.
To illustrate my point, please explain why you can never, under any circumstances, throw an EMP grenade 14 tiles. Please feel free to try this yourself.
If you're able to after 100 tries, please provide a screenshot of it. I can save you time and trouble, though...you won't be able to. The reason is simple: the range of a thrown EMP is 13 tiles. Not 14. If you were able to throw it 14, then 14 would be it's new Range.Edit: I've managed to do exactly what I stated could not be done, and retract the statement - please see my last post on this page for why this is concerning to me.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 08:32:30 PM
RANGE INHERENTLY IMPLIES MAXIMUM DISTANCE OF TRAVEL.
Aand implications are subjective. You might be seeing something, that noone intended you to see there. Those EMP grenades also have a miss chance and can actually with a bad enough thrower fly out of that magic ring. Its doesn't say anywhere, that 13 tiles is a maximum distance that guy can throw an EMP to. So why the heck it has to imply its a maximum?
(https://preview.ibb.co/fL2Zve/image.png)
I think you guys need to let this go lol. I'm sure tynan gets the point ;)
Quote from: erdrik on August 05, 2018, 08:37:43 PM
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 08:32:30 PM
Let's take EMP's.
An EMP has a "Range" of 13. Note the limit of the circle is exactly 13 tiles. Why is this indicated? So I know that I cannot throw it 14 tiles. Or 15.
RANGE INHERENTLY IMPLIES MAXIMUM DISTANCE OF TRAVEL.
Grenades have an AoE.
The AoE extends past the stated range.
It will produce the exact same situation that kicked off this tirade(EDIT: that we are both fueling, which is why I will be stopping after this).
The stated range is not maximum.
There IS no Area of Effect for a Charge Blaster round. A Charge Blaster round does damage to the target alone, and not to any bystanders.
Quote from: Greep on August 05, 2018, 08:42:56 PM
I think you guys need to let this go lol. I'm sure tynan gets the point ;)
I'm sure he does, and the argument or the veracity with which I've pursued it has nothing to do with being heated, or being heated with the game (I'm not either of those); it has to do with pointing out something I genuinely believe needs to be addressed in the combat system, but being presented with invalid reasons as to why it doesn't need to be addressed.
There's a reason why I'm pursuing it hard, btw:
because it genuinely matters to gameplay.
Premise: If you're attempting to micro a Centipede by staying out of it's range by fighting it out in the open: it is important, maybe even critical, to know what range you need to be out of.
Now, if the range statistic and the range circles are giving a false sense of security (you think you're "safe" when you're really very much in danger)...that's a serious problem to gameplay that transcends my own example, and even more so when 1.0 is encouraging more "open field" tactics instead of "killbox/trapmaze" solutions.
If the range statistics and circles are accurate, and pawns are getting shot when they shouldn't be? That's an equally troubling problem. Either way, there's a potential problem.
Either it will be looked at and addressed by the only person whose determination on the issue really counts - Tynan's - or it won't.
Quote from: Teleblaster18 on August 05, 2018, 05:46:46 PM
... It left me having some concerns about the current state of combat mechanics.
( 22.5 hrs last two weeks / 258.1 hrs on record )
(Plus unlogged time since I originally bought it direct)
Concerns? That's an understatement.
The combat in vanilla absolutely sucks! The Combat Extended mod fixes almost all of the suck luckily.
x Shotguns that are actually made up of several projectiles.
x Ballistic energy properly modeled instead of having short bows pierce plate armor.
x I could go on, but why.
I've been trying to help with 1.0 testing, but so many things are wrong with this game without mods. I'll have to put it aside until CE comes out at a later date.
Combat Extended opened my eyes to what this game could be and I can't go back to playing a random die roll system again.
EDIT: 7 out of 8 of my colonists have at least 1 toe shot off. I'd honestly like to know how common this is in combat injuries as it's an extraordinarily small target to hit. I'd rather see things like permanent knee injuries than toe-less colonists everywhere. Speaking of that, where are the shoes?? Is everyone wandering around barefoot?
Don't get me wrong, so much else in this game is good that I keep coming back, despite the awful combat mechanics.
EDIT 2: Loaded up a B18 save on a different PC still running B18 and 0 out of 7 colonists have toes shot off. One has an eleventh rib destroyed. This is roughly the same time into the game at same difficulty/storyteller. Something has changed... And as far as I can tell, pants only protect legs not feet even in B18. Tynan mentioned something about taking a single injury / trap strike and spreading it out over several locations - could this be the culprit?
Randy
Rough
Temperate forest
Permadeath
Age 5 days
Hours - 1 (holy crap, 5 days per hour)
No modification
- The "Bio" label. I know this one changed several times. Anyway, I do not enjoy it. I even prefer "Char" which I wasn't too hot on either. What about "Skills?" I know there's other stuff on the panel but 99.9% of the time you're using it, you're looking at the skills. Or how about "Traits?" Eh, I don't love "Traits" but "Bio" just sounds like biology or something.
- Speaking of traits, I find the new traits very interesting. Good stuff. Of course, I'm liking it as long as they're good, haha.
- Undrafting causes colonists to drop prisoner/patients. I don't enjoy having to monitor the process of bringing them back to the colony before I can undraft and therefore treat the wounded or do anything else. Or micromanage picking them up again in possibly dangerous conditions when they had to be drafted to be in the area or fight. So yeah, 1st priority on undrafting, don't cancel the task.
- Combat learning feels very fast compared to B18.
- A doctor relaxed at my campfire instead of tending someone who was going to bleed to death in 11 hours. Old complaint, huh?
- Skill progression exciting. By this I mean I know cutting trees and chopping stone now grants skills, and so it feels different than in the past when I knew certain tasks were just drudgery; and they now feel rewarding.
- Colonists undrafted in remote areas chose to haul materials nearby. Great!
- The tab key does nothing on the faction name dialog. Actually I am now suspecting the tab key does nothing anywhere in the game. How annoying.
- I created a zone and was given this dim gray color that was nearly impossible to see. I hated it. I decided a different color was necessary. I went back to the zones dialog to discover the only way to change the color was to make an entirely new zone and do all the work over again. Why can't I change the color of a zone without remaking it?
- Alex ignored nearby simple meals to grab survival meals on the other side of the map. The reason this happened is I made my stockroom into a temporary prison and suddenly all the food within was reserved for prisoners. Unpleasant game interfacing. I have to tell everyone to eat from the prison or make a food zone I don't want until the colony is more developed.
- The social chat, as mentioned, is hilarious.
"May made a comment about hostile smiths to Alex."
"May offered a chance for Hurtle to find common ground around practicing with howitzers."
Watch out for those smiths; you can't trust them.
- I tried to recruit Hurtle directly without doing the resistance step. What resulted was reduction in resistance. So as of now I don't know what the point of the resistance button is. Seems redundant. Is there a reason to reduce resistance but not recruit? I hope it's not some gamey "I want to keep resistance at 0 so I can recruit this guy at will" type rationale.
Quote from: bbqftw on July 30, 2018, 04:45:08 PM
true skill right now is burning/melting down the 35k wealth of weapons the 75 man raid in year 2 just dropped before the next big threat comes
I failed at this and was rewarded by a psychic ship containing 9x timewasters, 4x storyteller. On the bright side mechs yield so little from deconstruction now so your wealth is controlled!!! I'm the real winner here.
Hahaha, timewasters and storytellers. It's sad that I know what that means.
Story time! yayyyyy
Cass, Survival Struggle, Permadeath, no mods
Tribal, Temperate Forest (50/60) with small hills.
Day 270ish, 300k wealth.
130 trained animals. Mostly Alpacas, the rest Labradors and Wargs.
13 colonists. Advanced, high quality gear and bionics.
An outlander siege! Twenty-three damnable raiders from the Omeda Union threaten our honest flock. But they make a fatal mistake! They decide to set up their makeshift fortifications right next to a Poison Ship that we have ignored for a whole quadrum (it is far enough away not to sour the dandelion fields). We have four mortars, and the second shot awakens the mechanoids. Sometimes, raids go wrong! See image...
...That is 7 centipedes and 26 scythers+lancers. That brigand Snow in the marine armor, who is in the middle of a yayo ritual when the mechanoids open fire, overdoses and falls to the ground twitching. The rest of the raiders are slaughtered in seconds. A couple mortar shots land, doing mild damage to some and killing two scythers. Now the mechanoids are headed to the pastures. Oh no! They'll cut our herd to pieces!
We have been experimenting with how to mix turrets and traps in with my herd. There are lattices of IED traps on all major approaches. On this side of the base, we have three mini-turrets in protective plus-shaped bastions and one uranium slug turret with a dominating field of fire.
The battle is bloody. Twenty-six animals die in the carnage - six of them to an IED mishap. Two of the colonists are caught in IED blasts, but are miraculously unharmed. Two mini-turrets explode and about a dozen IED traps serve their purpose. One colonist has painful burns on his leg - he leapt through flames to wedge his thrumbo tusk spear into a centipede's articulation servo, just as it was lining up a devastating volley. Such heroics and quick thinking! No other colonists sustained any injuries.
Our defenses have been proven by this battle, despite the painful loss of so many loyal animals. As expected, the enemy separated and fought expendable turrets, giving us time to group and focus fire on one front. We have lessons to apply. We need field bunkers for our sharpshooters to occupy, and we need wide hallways with short blinds, for our stampede to take enemy squads by surprise. But the integration of advanced technology has given us a powerful combined-arms defense system.
As the blasts and bleats cease and the field goes quiet, a blurred mind slowly comes back into focus. He remembers himself - Snow, an Omeda Platoon Officer - and stands up to take command. But his platoon lies charred and butchered on the ground. He doesn't see the attackers, or anyone at all. Still not in full control of his faculties, he panics and runs - stumbles, falls, crawls - off into the wilderness.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Toast on August 05, 2018, 01:59:53 PM
Small weirdness in an art description:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/973227205249692534/1D93BA3D932284AD45D84929287094FDF38FA793/
The only things Lexi has ever crafted are sculptures, which I guess is what the "minified thing" is??
That's probably my guess. The other thing is that apparatus is spelled incorrectly lol
Quote from: bbqftw on August 05, 2018, 08:22:52 PM
Now for those of you who are actually wealth managing and ethical players, thus cannot afford the raid point boost from haul-doggos, what is your corpse disposal mechanism? I feel like this and ultra wealth control are the true hallmarks differentiating idiots like me and true masters of the game
Stone room + molotov. :D
Or freezer with sleeping spots for hungry doggos, so they can eat just after wake up. But first option is better because you can burn unwanted weapons too.
Storyteller: Randy
Scenario: Naked Brutality with 'Wanderer join' disabled and start with 'Megasloth wool parka'
Difficulty: It was extreme but I had to switch to savage some time ago because you changed things:)
Biome/hilliness: Ice sheet
Commitment mode: no
Current colony age (days): 650
Hours played in the last 2 days: playing all the time since 1.0 unstable
- I hate mech drops on top of my head, that is really annoying and ruining base layout strategy. Looks like they can drop down over a mountain roof, it is radicoulous.It would be OK if they would land in an empty space/no roof area within my base though. Now it looks like you have no other idea how to make this game harder. Building a base is part of this game, why do you want try to ruin this part of strategy by an unstoppable/not balance part of a software code? If this is an idea to make game harder, please add a way to negate a bit these events.
- Infestations within a base? See above please. They can spawn without any warning and without any cause inside a mountain base only because it has a temperature high enough and there is no way to prevent it. It makes no sense and it is soooo no immersive. There should be a way to prevent random infestations. If you like to make this game harder, think about a different solution, please. I am saying only about these random events, not caused by a player.
- There should be a way to limit or to select what type of food a colonist can eat. Some food is bad for one but it is good for others (cannibalism).
- please add a fix for a 'toggle categorization mode' so when you try to expand a category a screen is not moving to the left the same time one want to expand a category. Probably a list of categories should be moved a little bit to the right so when you hover a mouse cursor over a top of category triangle it does not move a screen as well.
- I have all tribes hostile to me but only handsome attacks are from tribes. Majority are from mechs. Why this discrepancy? I would say it should be more even.
- Why I can't to bribe a tribe (or something) to be more friendly to me by a comms console even if I am neutral to some of them? All options are grayed out only because I am 'Neural'?
- there should be a search feature in 'zone/storage' - even if i played this game hundreds of hours I am still confused what is where.
- Can I request 'wildlife' window to be still open when you select an animal from it? Additionally it would be awesome if I could move a window to other screen corner and have it opened all the time.
- There should be a way to prioritize a deconstruction tasks - now they can wait forever because of other construction tasks (?)
- There should be a way to re-use some of resources from deads. I am playing cannibal now and I have tons of apparel just rotten - it makes no sense. There should be a way to get at least something from these all things they were wearing...
- If I am able to force a colonist to do something I want it to be continued by him/her no matter what is marked in the 'Work Tab'. Now I need to repeat 'a force' many times or to change assignment in a 'Work Tab'
-----> reserved for an additional feedback.
- beds reservation should last even if the owner went on a caravan. now it seems random collonist can take a bed/room due to owner is 'away', please fix
- Turrets need a visual indication if they are holding fire, several times I have run into the situation "Why aren't firing? WHY?!... oh." A way to tell at glance would be helpful, right now I have to either manually check each turret or select them all and toggle the option on and off.
- After dealing with some mad boomalopes I had one of them downed next to a turret, for moving it away the I used the trick of placing an animal sleeping spot somewhere and getting a pawn to "rescue" it. I use the same trick when rescuing pawns and avoiding walking into the crossfire. I feel this should be implemented in a more legitimate way so the player doesn't need to abuse sleeping spots for getting the same effect, like if the pawn is drafted the player can still control where it goes while carrying the injured and you have the options "drop here" when right-clicking in the floor and "rescue" or "capture" when right-clicking in a hospital bed or prison bed.
Quote from: Lanilor on August 04, 2018, 04:08:45 PM
- Using stockpile priorities can be a big waste of colonists time. I tried to put small stockpiles with high priority of rice next to the stove so the cook doesn't need to walk far. But everytime he grabs rice from the priority stockpile, someone else comes from further away to refill the missing 5 rice. Would be nice to have a settable limit or something so they only refill when a stack is empty or a simple timer may also do the job (after refilling, don't refill for the next ingame hour if it's not an empty cell).
- Also if someone starts to carry harvested rice from the fields, with priority stockpiles he now only carries 5 to fill the missing 5 rice in the priority stockpile and not 75 and put the rest on the stockpile next to it. Priority piles are nice to order stuff that lies around, but while working it is not very useful.
Yeah, I have observed this as well, though is more an issue of stockpiles getting full than the use of priorities. I watched a hauler get one bar of chocolate from the main stockpile to the shelf in the dinning room, then 5 corn from the "overflow" freezer to the kitchen freezer, then 5 meat ... then 2 beer to another shelf, and it goes on and on because the cook is working and pawns are eating. Meanwhile in the other side of the colony the animals are starving because the hay stockpile is empty and the hay is laying outside deteriorating to 10-20 hp. You have to make stockpiles big enough so they aren't normally full or manually order your haulers around, which is a pain to do with crops.
I don't know how the hauling scheduler works and what priorities uses for choosing what to haul, but I feel it should weight in stockpiles that are empty or hauls where it can carry a mostly full stack, if not that, a tool for designate stuff as priority to haulers, so I don't have to right-click every item.
Hi, for people like me that have slight physical problem with mouse accuracy, it would be very nice to type in mood threshold for drugs instead of wrestling with slider
Thanks!!
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Base builder
Scenario: Crash landed
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 200
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10
Complete mod list: None
- Pawn stoned on smokeleaf goes bear hunting. Walks straight to the bear's face and starts shooting (manages to do it only once before the bear mauls him). He had an assault rifle.
- Had -caravan ambushed- and -mechanoid raid via drop pods inside the base- at the same time, a couple of seconds only between the start of both events (on base builder difficulty).
- A slight annoyance: two pawns fight, one is downed - he drops his weapon, which is now forbidden - it's very hard to locate, because most of my pawns fight inside of the base, so they're rescued in mere seconds (dogs), and if I don't pause the game in the second he's downed, it takes 20 minutes (real time) to find the weapon. The only solution I have so far is to keep a spare copy of most used weapons, so I can then double-click it while zoomed out.
- "Smart" raiders avoiding traps and turrets - had this happen at least twice - On the right side of my base is a largish deposit of stone. As the game progresses, my pawns mine it, usually drilling a hole - a path of some sort. Raid comes, they "avoid" turrets and go through this path. Which is narrow. And I have pawns waiting on the other side, just taking them out one by one. They basically kill-box themselves. Had they gone straight through the field and to the turrets, they could have done a bit more damage. (I seem to handle mechanoid raids easier than 5ish pirates).
- Friendly factions leaving gifts every time.
- Friendly faction blaming me for the death of their turtle.
- A refugee chased event. Accept, pyromaniac, banish, fight off the chasers. Ten minutes later, incapacitated refugee quest - same dude. I ignore. Again, ten minutes later - same quest, same dude. I ignore. Haven't heard from him since, thankfully.
- I sent my pawns boomalope hunting, so this started a massive, massive fire. The fire then spread out to a pre-built steel structure (it was on the map, closed off from all 4 sides), which burned down to the ground. You can see the problem that could have happened had this been an "ancient danger" structure.
EDIT: one more thing - dogs are starving and won't eat. They are zoned in the base, can enter the fridge, I have both meat and meals, and yet - they starve. This happens most often when a dog is pregnant (so it miscarries), but have randomly observed it in other dogs too. Something happens then, as if they reset, and they continue to eat normally.
Notes on raiding parties. Finally did get an item stash with an orbital targeter and tornado generator. Have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand it's nice to actually have a reason to do a raiding party, on the other hand, I don't really have any fear of losing my fortress anymore, and I could have solo'd this if I shipped in a bunch of spike traps. It would be more interesting if the really really big rewards, not serums, but the "nuke the next raid off the face of the planet", had mortars and a bigger fort. Then again I don't really WANT to lose a fort that's made it to 10 years, though lol.
Additionally, I got drop pod attacked during this, and it smashed some production buildings with a bunch of permanent queued tasks. I'm not sure of a way to solving this, but I'd like to echo what another player said and resetting these are a pain in the butt.
Quote from: Greep on August 06, 2018, 02:24:03 AM
Additionally, I got drop pod attacked during this, and it smashed some production buildings with a bunch of permanent queued tasks. I'm not sure of a way to solving this, but I'd like to echo what another player said and resetting these are a pain in the butt.
The game could just remember, without asking, every set of bills on every production building, including destroyed ones. Then when you build a new one you could just import from the list.
Make the list span games and I'll never complain again. About this specific issue. :D
Might be something a mod can handle since it's QoL, though *shrug*
Also: the ultimate cheeze:
Door peeking turrets below. Would you like cheese on your cheese sandwich sir?
[attachment deleted due to age]
I think its pretty hard to balance the caravan rewards. At the moment I am pretty much only going for the AI persona core or serums.
While we can draw on a lot of experience given our current wealth / pawn situation to intuit how threatening raids will be on the main map, there's far less experience to assess the risks for caravaning (especially early-mid, when you have little to no pawn redundancy).
The variance bands seem pretty out there, from item stash ambushes for "no known threats" at 3-4x your numbers (I've heard from others of 6x+ cases), to 3 guys with sticks trying to 'ambush' 3 power armored + bionic pawns with combat animal support. Then you have the question of raid possibility on the main base while your caravan people are out of town (generally comprising of at least one good fighter).
Then there's the issue of plague / other disease while on caravan. On the main map we can precisely control the tends. On the caravan map god knows what your pawns will do - I remember caravan times where to my horror, glitterworld was happily used to massage some arm bruises while infects remained undealt with. That's in addition to the lack of good beds further decreasing effective immunity gain. Is the design intend that you must caravan with glitterworld lest you get storytold by plague? Or maybe you should only caravan with luciferium addicts? Unless you are big reroller/lucker, odds are at the 5-6 pawn range you will have only one doctor that can do plague tends reliably. In such a situation, you are effectively either taking a game-losing risk by sending your doc out, or risking zero counterplay storytelling death on your caravan members.
Same concept with recreation and pawns entering encounter maps at mental break range.
Overall, unclear risks and genuinely high risks combine to make an unappealing mechanic. So I end up typically over-preparing on both ends, and only caravan for insane rewards. Which means caravaning practically only during late game, when I can spare gojuice/shield belts/triprockets/glittermeds for any contingency.
Yeah the main issue it's there's a lot of invisible things going in the background: for instance, lump threats seem to be half the size of site threats and caravan walk events seem proportional to the caravan instead. So when you se a known threat: none, and you don't know the code/ experience, you will have no idea what to experience.
The other of course is a bad hit on a caravan can mean everybody dies. So, you basically end up only going to safe things.
And then finally, things like wooden armor (excellent) aren't even worth the drop pods ;)
Quote from: bbqftw on August 05, 2018, 08:22:52 PM
Now for those of you who are actually wealth managing and ethical players, thus cannot afford the raid point boost from haul-doggos, what is your corpse disposal mechanism? I feel like this and ultra wealth control are the true hallmarks differentiating idiots like me and true masters of the game
I get the impression that haul-doggos are far cheaper than using colonists to haul. One bionic limb ~= 5 doggos, I think. I wouldn't skimp on the bionics, but the doggos are an even bigger multiplier to the colony's overall efficiency. I think armour (and excess weapons) is probably the most obvious thing you can skimp on, although I've recently decided that my colony is going to have to invest in ~4 suits of power armour, to beef up the melee frontline (after a disaster story described earlier in this thread.)
On that note, I'm a little disappointed at how fragile archotech limbs are. From the description I thought they'd be extremely durable. Lost my first archotech leg, and powerclaw, to a scyther in the very first fight since fitting them. It was a bit underwhelming, for something so expensive, to say the least.
Corpse (and unwanted equipment) disposal, are simply stockpiles (near to the most common combat areas), surrounded by a 3 tile concrete firebreak, and a molotov cocktail. If the fight's particularly big I might set all the colonists to (priority 1) haul for a bit to get the corpses piled up, otherwise the colonists (priority 1) clean the blood off the streets while the doggos do the hauling. It's ok if the colonists to see a few corpses while they haul - they're probably already corpse debuffed from the battle itself anyway. If they get too stressed, then they can always have a nice cup of tea and a sit down.
Well the thing about haulo-dogs is that 5 haulodogs is ~100 raid points, and an installed bionic arm is 0. So if you're at a point where you can't afford things but can stand the raid, the dogs make sense. But usually it's the other way around.
Quote from: Greep on August 06, 2018, 03:42:31 AM
Well the thing about haulo-dogs is that 5 haulodogs is ~100 raid points, and an installed bionic arm is 0. So if you're at a point where you can't afford things but can stand the raid, the dogs make sense. But usually it's the other way around.
Really? I (incorrectly?) assumed it was based on wealth? A pawn with installed mods is worth a *lot* more than a pawn without. i.e. One of my pawns has an archotech eye. In wealth terms, she has value comparable to ~20 dogs. Are you sure that doesn't translate to raid points? If not, then I clearly need to invest a lot more in making supersoldiers.
Yup. To be clear, wealth is the main factor. It's just bionics/organs and flooring don't count towards wealth. And combat animals and pawns also have their own additional factoring that has nothing to do with their actual market value. Except animals where part of that is their market value (:D), and part of it isn't. It's why even though sculptures are better for room beauty, if you just want extremely impressive, silver flooring is not a bad option.
Quote from: Greep on August 06, 2018, 04:00:02 AM
Yup. To be clear, wealth is the main factor. It's just bionics/organs and flooring don't count towards wealth. And combat animals and pawns also have their own additional factoring that has nothing to do with their actual market value. Except animals where part of that is their market value (:D), and part of it isn't. It's why even though sculptures are better for room beauty, if you just want extremely impressive, silver flooring is not a bad option.
... and all this time I've even avoided using too much sterile tile, because of how expensive it is... I feel like this could do with a bit more transparency. I guess it makes sense (unless a new raid type 'floor thieves' was introduced. 8))
Thanks for the info. Seems I need to do more research!
Quote from: dogthinker on August 06, 2018, 04:19:05 AM
(unless a new raid type 'floor thieves' was introduced. 8))
That's pretty much me after raiding an outpost. Can't just leave that metal tiles alone!
During modding I noticed that when I wanted a colonist to install a Joywire or my own Nerve stapling implant they did not want any medicine but herbal medicine. What is up with that?
Apparently glitterworld medicine is not good enough :P .
With Herbal medicine allowed. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/fq4ng9nd8vmuv07/20180806141034_1.jpg?dl=0)
With Herbal medicine forbidden. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qklww4qyqc9n78y/20180806141048_1.jpg?dl=0)
Edit: Looks like I forgot to set the medicine level they can get... Maybe the reason for not being able to do the surgery should tell that instead then?
QuoteIt's just bionics/organs and flooring don't count towards wealth.
Are you sure about the bionics? I know it's true for the floor. But what about the indirect contribution of the bionics to the character quality multiplier? I thought the pawn market value was counted as wealth.
Regarding maximum range, it just refers to the maximum targeting range.
The gameplay reason they can miss beyond this range is because to do otherwise would add a bunch of complexity to the math around miss chances. Depending on how it's done, it could look weird, cause more damage in some particular situations, or open up weird game-y tactics.
In fiction, you can imagine it any way you like. I'd just call it them knowing not to shoot past effective range, just as real soldiers don't shoot at targets they could theoretically hit just because it's too far to be effective for their weapon.
It's not worth adding the interface, balancing, tactics, AI complexity to make this work so as with many many other cases we're sticking with the straightforward max-range/miss the same at every range system. There's many more important things to focus on.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless for most of the game, recently switched to rough.
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest and mountainous.
Commitment mode: Nope.
Current colony age (days): 163.
Hours played in the last 2 days: Idk, 9?
Complete mod list: Just the progress renderer mod.
So, new colony! I went mostly with what the game offered me, luckily my starting colonists weren't god-awful, but actually kind of decent, just on the low-end side in terms of passion and experience. I did hand-picked a landing location near a road and in a no flat area. I had a veeery slow start. I didn't have a good builder, doctor, miner or cooker. They spend their sweet botching their jobs for a while, suffering from food poisoning every other day. Pan Sunbin changed that, bringing to the colony an interest for construction, medical and intellectual activities, as well as a burning desire to craft for the colony. From that point, I've been playing catch-up with the difficulty curve, just providing enough defense to be able to survive.
Turns out, mountainous regions are actually bad when you don't mine inside them. The starvation for steel and mechanical components has been tough, forcing me to form caravans and trade with nearby factions. I simply didn't have enough time or manpower to mine the mountains (I still don't even have a good cook). Eventually, raids grew too big, even when I barely had a couple of steel mini-turrets. It was too much. I switched to 'rough'. I think it is my sweet spot. It was a nice experiment, merciless is indeed merciless. Though it seems like the difficulty just suddenly explodes.
Anyway. I have a couple of things in mind:
- Since now we have a wild-life tab, I think it would be a good QoL addition to add an icon to distinguish animals that are in a manhunter state. It's a bit cumbersome to look through the map to find the 5 hares that suddenly went mad.
- Crops die way too quick when cold snaps happen. I waked up my three experienced gardeners in the middle of the night, changed their schedule and priority, and they could not even save 15 % of the crops. Sure, the temperature went from like 6 to -20 in a couple of hours, but they barely last a few hours. Are plants that fragile irl? I have no idea, but in RimWorld, cold snaps are the real blights.
- I have an inland sea near my outpost. I've been getting caravan requests from the other side of the sea. You have to go around it on a trip that takes almost an entire quadrum. (https://i.imgur.com/3uULaWt.jpg) It's a shame because the requests had pretty good rewards, but... yeah, it's too far. I don't mind getting missions from far away places, I bet some people would try them, but this seems like the game not taking into consideration impassable tiles. You could also give us boats...
- It's hard to visually determine the level of growth of healroot.
Some graphs!
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on August 06, 2018, 04:00:02 AM
Yup. To be clear, wealth is the main factor. It's just bionics/organs and flooring don't count towards wealth. And combat animals and pawns also have their own additional factoring that has nothing to do with their actual market value. Except animals where part of that is their market value (:D), and part of it isn't. It's why even though sculptures are better for room beauty, if you just want extremely impressive, silver flooring is not a bad option.
Wait, when did Floor wealth stop counting?! I've been agonizing over installing carpet for two in-game years because I didn't feel like I had enough traps and walls and stuff! My colonists have been suffering for nothing! *Dargaron has suffered a Mental Break: Sad Wander. The last straw was: I dun goofed*
I'm surprised 5 hauldogs only count as 100 raid points. That's just 1 or 2 raiders which 5 dogs handily beat, though dogs are a pretty expensive asset once haul capable so you may not want to commit them to combat. That's far less than what I was expecting seeing as I had 10k max point raids as early as 320k wealth / late year2 when utilizing some animals.
What file(s) govern raid scaling for animals?
Do trainable intelligence simple animals get multiplied raid point factors?
Naked brutality AAR. On the 6th day Wilson went into a catatonic breakdown and in two more days starved to death 8)
Recreation needs are easy to meet by the way. There's very little pressure to add more recreation sources. Just having a table and horseshoe pin is enough for a year or two.
Quote from: bbqftw on August 06, 2018, 12:40:08 PM
I'm surprised 5 hauldogs only count as 100 raid points. That's just 1 or 2 raiders which 5 dogs handily beat, though dogs are a pretty expensive asset once haul capable so you may not want to commit them to combat. That's far less than what I was expecting seeing as I had 10k max point raids as early as 320k wealth / late year2 when utilizing some animals.
What file(s) govern raid scaling for animals?
Do trainable intelligence simple animals get multiplied raid point factors?
Well it's ~100 * threatscale. So double on merciless. I think it might even be more like 70->140 for dogs. If you want to know which animals cause the highest raid point, check out their combat power in their animal race xmls. Manhunter packs use the same number to determine overall size, so you can get a good gut feeling about what's the best combat animal. Boomrats are probably kickass and hilarious.
I just want to acknowledge and thank everyone who has posted play stories with all the requested information included. It continues to be useful, so thank you.
I think you'd rather I work on the game than spend more time than needed replying to forum posts, so I'll generally not reply individually, but I am reading everything carefully.
So I did a quick test, I started up a naked brutality run and then used dev mode to pave the entire map in gold tile and outfit the pawn with a full set of archotech biotics.
Colony wealth according to the statistics screen? Zero. The rest of the graphs also didn't move, so it's not effecting raid strength in some other way, either.
This is really good info to know, thanks for pointing it out.
I don't know if it's intended, but boomalopes make cow noises. When I heard the "moo", I was expecting to see muffalos, but found boomalopes. I don't remember if boomalopes always had the cow moo-sound, (and I'm playing Rimwolrd since A8) ::)
I'm not sure what's causing sappers to frequently just enter the fort, but this is happening quite a lot. two groups both deciding this is the smart thing to do:
[attachment deleted due to age]
Does this typically only happen in mutigroup rapper raids? I have observed some similar thing happening.
Seems like it's more common then, but that just could be because you have more chances ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also: now this is what you call a terminator. Even beats an a17 careful shooter. I didn't expect 98% shooting with trigger happy to be possible, but it did take a crazy amount of bionics, extreme passion in shooting, and regular lump raiding. Meet nelson. I think I need a new outfit to give shooters power armor helmets.
[attachment deleted due to age]
A few things I noticed today when continuing my forever alone run from yesterday.
I got a plague message for a pawn not in my colony, or on my map, with the "jump to locaiton" button greyed out.
Hunting animals avoid traps -- which makes for very weird behavior when they are in a trap hallway and you have a pawn shoot them. Right up to the point they revenge, the animal zig-zags around the traps. As soon as it revenges, it runs right into the next trap.
I tried a trap hallway for the first time. Even a fairly short one pretty much handles all normal raids very easily. When and how traps get auto-rebuilt (with the global auto-rebuilt option turned on) is still weird: I frequently ended up with missing traps in the line. Do traps need to be in home zone to get auto-rebuilt? Have auto-rearm checked? Both (which is where I ended up)?
Pawns don't get the "I could have helped" debuff when refusing a refugee event with a relationship, but do when you refuse to caravan to rescue someone. Honestly, I'd prefer that debuff to be removed completely, but I think it should be consistent.
Thrumbo's list their manhunter chance at rifle range as 35% -- but at rifle range (bolt-action) the hover tooltip lists the manhunter chance as 8.3% with a level 9 shooter/level 10 animal handler. 8.3% for a thrumbo seems low with a pretty mediocre shooter/animal handler: I'm able to get in a lot of free shots before they go manhunter most of the time.
During a raid I ordered 5 colonists to shoot at a raider who happened to be standing on top of my sixth colonist, who had just been downed. My colonists faithfully fired - at my downed guy - instantly killing him. I'm willing to accept a lot of "colonist missed and hit his downed buddy" shenanigans, especially when I order shots nearby, but I think what actually happened here is that I attempted to order my colonists to shoot at a raider, and instead I targeted my own downed colonist (too many direct hits on him for it to all be missed shots). Perhaps the stack ordering of items in a cell should put your colonists last for targeting purposes?
Found a bug in mechanoid dissasembly efficiency.
A colonist with an archotech eye and 2 bionic arms has it at 100%, when the relevant variables for that efficiency are sight, manipulation and carfting.
Colonists' stats are:
sight: 150% (only counts up to 100% for this)
manipulation: 125% (this seems weird for 2 bionic arms)
crafting (14): 110%
Final value: 100% ... shouldnt it be more?
Quote from: protobeard on August 06, 2018, 06:50:35 PM
... I'm willing to accept a lot of "colonist missed and hit his downed buddy" shenanigans, especially when I order shots nearby, but I think what actually happened here is that I attempted to order my colonists to shoot at a raider, and instead I targeted my own downed colonist (too many direct hits on him for it to all be missed shots). Perhaps the stack ordering of items in a cell should put your colonists last for targeting purposes?
You sound like you are unsure if targeting was actually the problem.
Doesn't the combat log specify the intended target, and whether or not it was a miss?
Do you still have the save, to check the combat log and see?
Hello I am back with some comments about insect behavior.
Now insects are lazy. Very lazy. So lazy that they will often forget to maintain hives. Then the hive dies. Then insect blames you and begins rushing your base. This is very sad because I am trying to roleplay very ethical environmentalists that only minimally chop trees, don't trouble the local wildlife, and use only renewable power sources.
Since roof collapse was changed not to trigger insect attack, maybe hive death due to lazy insect should not either?
Quote from: Greep on August 06, 2018, 05:36:17 PM
Seems like it's more common then, but that just could be because you have more chances ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also: now this is what you call a terminator. Even beats an a17 careful shooter. I didn't expect 98% shooting with trigger happy to be possible, but it did take a crazy amount of bionics, extreme passion in shooting, and regular lump raiding. Meet nelson. I think I need a new outfit to give shooters power armor helmets.
Maybe, it seems like sometimes some of the sapper groups (especially for tribals) lack the cheater-miner character, so then they give up and proceed to processing at local corpse disposal center.
Quote from: Tynan on August 06, 2018, 10:50:27 AM
Regarding maximum range, it just refers to the maximum targeting range.
Fairynuff. Perhaps modify the info txt to say 'Max effective range' or similar?
QuoteThe gameplay reason they can miss beyond this range is because to do otherwise would add a bunch of complexity to the math around miss chances. Depending on how it's done, it could look weird, cause more damage in some particular situations, or open up weird game-y tactics. [...] It's not worth adding the interface, balancing, tactics, AI complexity to make this work so as with many many other cases we're sticking with the straightforward max-range/miss the same at every range system. There's many more important things to focus on.
I can understand you're not willing to let (eg) pawns with low shooting skill take potshots at local wildlife at over effective range ('cos they don't know any better) purely to skill up, but perhaps missed ranged shots could damage (& potentially anger) wildlife if they hit & injure a wandering animal out of range? I'm not expecting this to be implemented, just a thought..
While I dislike the occasional blobs of doom, this is one reason randy is just the storyteller to play. Some hilarious stuff: A high roll friendlies comes to the aid to stop some low roll psychic ship.
Edit: although they do seem to have a bit of trouble actually fighting them ::)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Lucky for you those IEDs dont trigger in range of the friendlies, once lost like ~50 relations for a tragedy like that.
Bugs are starting to become annoying, I mine out a piece of overhead mountain several feet from my base in hope of finding uranium. Infestation spawns with 5 hives and a whole caravan load of bugs. I'm like okay the bugs don't seek you out if something other than the colony messes with them.
Nope, visitors go past them, they are killed quickly and they go after me. Raiders accidentally stumble upon bugs, they die, they go after me. Cold snap happens, the little bugs become downed due to hypothermia, the god damn little shits go after me. What the hell does them dieing to cold have to do with me.
New build is up! No specific testing requests. The play stories that've been written recently have been great so I'd love to hear more.
Infections should no longer be silent, and animal disease incidents should no longer affect humans. I also set the version to 0.19 since it was semi-incorrect to leave it on 1.0 (I should've had it at 0.19 the whole time, sorry about that).
Bugs should ideally be posted in a separate thread in the Bugs forum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0), thanks.
Stories should please be prefixed with this basic info:
Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome/hilliness:
Commitment mode:
Current colony age (days):
Hours played in the last 2 days:
Complete mod list:
EDIT OOPS forgot the extra stuff.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Flat Shrubland, on a river. No road or hills.
Commitment mode: Wussy. I mean I can reload saves.
Current colony age (days): This was a while ago so I'm not sure. Maybe 100-150 days? 2nd year or beginning of 3rd.
Hours played in the last 2 days: A lot. 15+
Psychic ship lands. I mortar it and the guys come out. It's far enough away that I don't need to deal with it right away so I ignore it for the time being.
A day or two later, it emits a psychic pulse that angers a dozen muffalos, who then GO TO TOWN on the mechanoids. The mechs win but are seriously beat up. I decide to take my chance and go out there and mop them up easily.
And we feasted well on muffalo that night.
My item wealth bumped up 20% after 0.19. I'm guessing it's either corpse/flooring/bionics related, although at this point it's not much for me. Curious what changed tho so I'll look into it. Doesn't seem to have impacted fun points at all, though, so I'm not sure what it is actually o.o
Quote from: Tynan on August 06, 2018, 08:22:17 PM
.... I also set the version to 0.19 since it was semi-incorrect to leave it on 1.0 (I should've had it at 0.19 the whole time, sorry about that)....
please revert this 0.19 stuff cause you will mess up everything for nothing
I've only had two real glitches in my 1.0.1982.
- The first day after landing, I got a notification that a character had gotten Malaria. The issue was that it wasn't a colonist - nor anybody on the map. Sadly, I don't have any screenshots, but I'll try to recreate it.
- Secondly, after rescuing a prisoner, I attempted to reform the caravan; however, that's only possible in the worldview. The bug console sat on top of the form caravan button. This isn't critical (since you can press the bound button or wait 5 days) (Example shown as Glitch.4), but is an issue none the less. Other caravans and bases also happened to show up as being empty (Glitch.5 and Glitch.6)
Here are a couple more or my thoughts (AKA rants) ordered from
most important to least:
- Manhunter packs don't attack wild people.
- The map is made in commitment mode; however, it's saved as permadeath (whatever that means).
- Untamed animals aren't attacked by insect hives while tamed ones are. Not too big of an issue, but I think either both should or shouldn't
- While cutting plants (in the case of blight), the default key "y" is the same one assigned to deleting the zone. If you misclick, the zone is deleted.
- Tree sowing research may be a tad high - perhaps bump it from 1000 to 800. On the other hand, I think gunsmithing (500), blowback (500) and turrets (500) should be raised.
- Untamed animals aren't attacked by insect hives while tamed ones are. Not too big of an issue, but I think either both should or shouldn't
- The game of Ur is a nice touch, albeit niche reference.
- Horseshoes go through walls.
Overall, I'm loving the progress that you're making. Best of luck!
Ah, it was building wealth not item wealth. that's gotta be flooring then. Still no affect on raids tho \o/ Or maybe it did but building wealth is cut in half so it was less noticeable. I think I'll keep my gold flooring, though it kinda looks like piss in the middle of sterile floors.
Blah, no wonder why I stopped making chemfuel. No more from meals :(
Pemmican and kibble then! You can't stop us tynan!
Wait not even wood? That feels like a bug.
In any case I think you brought up the worst possible meta in rimworld history: Human meat chemfuel... or is it the best 8)
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Greep on August 06, 2018, 09:23:08 PM
I think I'll keep my gold flooring, though it kinda looks like piss in the middle of sterile floors.
https://www.deviantart.com/oni1ink/art/Tutorial-How-to-draw-Shiny-Materials-557675663
(https://orig00.deviantart.net/6810/f/2015/244/5/4/tutorial__how_to_draw_shiny_materials_by_oni1ink-d980xan.png)
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless Naked Brutality
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 20?
Hours played in the last 2 days: a couple
Complete mod list: while you're up, more faction interaction, allow tool
Well, that was a short run and it was completely thanks to the INSANELY BRUTAL food poisoning system. I hate it. Food poisoning should not add FORTY PERCENT pain! It's too much. I can understand it making your colonist near useless for work but why in the world does it add 40% pain?
My colonist started naked and alone, she was pretty good other than no social. I figured I could get a wanderer or something that could handle that later. Built up a small room with the basics, did some berry harvesting, did a little hunting and got some meals going on the campfire. I am annoyed that campfires make rooms too hot to sleep in many times. My room was probably 6x8ish floorspace and I kept having to switch between holding the doors open and not to avoid "slept in the cold" or "slept in the heat."
First raid comes, single dude with a club. I had crafted myself a club and a bow since my colonist was good at both melee and shooting. Gave him a few shots and then switched to club for close combat. No problem. Can't recruit the guy so I strip and execute. At least I'm not naked now although the clothes are rather poor. For the first time I made patchleather stuff and it did the trick for now but I am going to need a parka sometime in the next 20 days or so. Spoiler: it never gets to winter.
Moving along pretty well just trying to plan some small expansions and considering the best option for power and how much I can actually research...then boom the first food poisoning hits. My colonist is a 2 in cooking so I knew it would happen at some point. Then a raid comes. That's OK, he's preparing a while so I think I should be recovering by the time he attacks. The moment the guy attacks my colonist breaks "hide in room" because of being sick. Attacker lights my bed on fire then downs me and decides to kidnap me. While he is running away with me my food poisoning recovers and I pop up and he runs off. Unfortunately my entire room has burned to the ground. I have no food or bed or anything.
Craft a new bow which of course was worse than the first one I made, gather some berries to stem off starvation and plan to do a small hunt to start some meals up again. Got a bed put together and a door for my house. New raid, girl with a knife. I'm still injured from the earlier fight and have had no time to patch myself up, but we play door peekaboo and I manage to beat her while taking a couple stabs. At this point I'm malnourished again so I run to find some berry bushes and some healroot I left near the bushes. I should probably eat first...BOOM food poisoning (dangerous food type.) 40% pain added to my already hurting colonist put pain over 100%. Now I get to wiggle on the ground until I bleed out 13 hours later. I guess I should've tended first.
Please make food poisoning less brutal.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough Naked Brutality (wow, kinky)
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest mountains
Commitment mode: No, but self-enforcing commitment
Current colony age (days): ~125
Hourse played in last 2 days: 20 (whoops)
No mods
Map size: Medium (275x275)
Build: 1.0.1982
Was able survive the (very predictable) first couple days of Cassandra Naked Brutality and am currently at 12 colonists, defending a mostly-closed off area. It has gotten to the point now where I'm considering tanking relations with tribes since dealing with tribal raids is somehow easier than dealing with poison/psychic ships and other mech raids, which seem to be taking the place of the tribal raids.
Right now I have many colonists missing fingers, toes, etc. Looks like there are a couple of things I can do to replace a hand (power claw, scyther blade) but nothing that I can put on someone's foot, so I'm not sure what to do there besides save up for bionic legs.
Sorry for the theory-crafting, but it seems like it would make more sense if injured bionics were repaired with steel/components. It's a little weird that they can be fixed by applying herbal medicine.
Complaints, which I'm not sure are bugs or if I'm bad at this game:
Auto-rearm on traps and IEDs keep turning off automatically.
Can't rotate marriage spot.
Had two instances of "organ harvested" debuff at the same time with different spellings ("Someone organ harvested" and "Someone's organ harvested")
Merge caravan didn't work for me after sending someone off in another direction then immediately back to the original caravan which was visiting a faction.
Installed a bionic arm on a body-purist and he's not upset about it.
Can there be an option for caravan packing that says "we'll do this tomorrow and please don't sleep on the floor this time", tia
Can we also have rescued guests preferentially not path through forbidden doors?
PS I also noticed that caravan resting actually rests your guys now! Great work Tynan!!!!
PPS monkaS raid points no longer capped at 10k, can't wait for my 15000 point 30x timewaster raid. Time to aggressively wealth control some more :( The true heart of rimworld. Looks like merciless threat scaling was upped by 10% as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/fyf43wo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hWFXEul.png)
PPPS all IED costs doubled hahahahaha what a meme get funpoliced @greep
Quote from: bbqftw on August 06, 2018, 11:11:08 PM
PPPS all IED costs doubled hahahahaha what a meme get funpoliced @greep
:(. Muh sapper control. Pity about the raid cap, I was about to let seriously let myself go just right now. It's 20k cap, but that's just to stop computers from frying I guess.
I like the evolution of IEDs:
"
-People aren't using IEDS, time to lower their cost by ~1/3 by removing the component.
-Oh noes people are using IEDs! double it!
"
It's like that "I am a strategic geniu- OH NO!" meme.
There must have been something to offset the 10% scaling of merciless, though, as I didn't even notice the fun points change when updating.
user was warned for this post: rule 1 and rule 2
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Base builder
Scenario: Crash landed
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 400
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~6
Complete mod list: None
Continuing my previous game. I've passed 400 days, maybe I'll launch the ship, maybe not...
Base-builder difficulty:
- caravan goes on a 0,8 day travel, gets ambushed twice on the way there, twice on the way back (by one raider/one animal, but still)
- 2 sieges in 3 days, and I have no idea on how to counter them, so I just send all of my pawns to attack and hope for the best. After the first one, I have 8/20 damaged pawns, nothing serious but need to be hospitalized. And then another siege comes.
- manhunter event - emus, 8 birds. Aftermath: 6 destroyed steel turrets, 2 destroyed granite walls. Are these some kind of plasteel alien bionic emus?
Colonists fighting... There should be some kind of punishment for this behavior, as a deterrent for others. Mechanoid raid, the second I drafted them, they started a fight, ended with a sniper downed. I really wanted to shoot both of them where they stood, but then I'd just get a debuff. Plus, if I shot everyone who started fighting, I'd end up with one colonist. These pawns seriously hate each other.
mercicass/ year 4 / big noob biome / idk
Had spicy new 16k point raid. 21x timewaster, 18x storyteller, 19x useless vs handpicked 20 warriors. Is this what Pandora was supposed to feel like?
No wounds, just a death.
One of my cows! She was happily grazing too close to the map edge when she was beset upon by a gang of scythers. Could have probably saved it though, so technical misplay.
So that sucked.
Oh well, we will recover.
Unfortunately, the uncapping of raid points means that my decorative marriage spot will have to be... reprocessed :( Even with the greatly lowered manufacturing standards for centipedes, every scrap of plasteel counts. Well I took a picture of it for memories:
(https://i.imgur.com/fWufsMm.png)
I had such great things planned :(
One big issue with the raid cap: IIRC it was lowered to stop rough and under from getting absurd raids like merciless (medium would cap at about 4000*.65). There doesn't seem to be a check anymore against this, with wealth alone allowing for 4200 raid points. I think the cap is just too high, but at the very least, it should be lowered for lower levels.
WOW. Check out that market value. Cyborgs are hot.
[attachment deleted due to age]
With the nerf to power armor and the extremely high value of armor points at high values, this raises interesting question of whether rolling for excellent flak vest (at 130% sharps, vs 107/124 for normal/good power armor) might be stronger play than building power armor. Since flak vest is not too prohibitive to roll for, but power armor is not. Your limbs might not appreciate it, but that 23% differential is a pretty huge increase in EHP for torso parts.
Its more economical too for raid control aspects, unless you are forcing prisoners to wear power armor then executing them. Then again, storytold limbs have their own wealth control issues too, and getting those shot off is pretty expensive too now.
I think it comes down to neck protection vs organ protection. Losing a limb = bionics. I have no idea of the odds of neck shots vs heart/liver/etc, though.
In any case I do like using inspirations on power armor. Putting cyborgs in machine armor is weird and awesome.
Quote from: Greep on August 07, 2018, 04:02:46 AM
I think it comes down to neck protection vs organ protection. Losing a limb = bionics. I have no idea of the odds of neck shots vs heart/liver/etc, though.
In any case I do like using inspirations on power armor. Putting cyborgs in machine armor is weird and awesome.
Flak vest covers the neck, so actually the difference is only on limbs.
Quote from: Greep on August 07, 2018, 12:21:05 AM
Quote from: bbqftw on August 06, 2018, 11:11:08 PM
PPPS all IED costs doubled hahahahaha what a meme get funpoliced @greep
:(. Muh sapper control. Pity about the raid cap, I was about to let seriously let myself go just right now. It's 20k cap, but that's just to stop computers from frying I guess.
I like the evolution of IEDs:
"
-People aren't using IEDS, time to lower their cost by ~1/3 by removing the component.
-Oh noes people are using IEDs! double it!
"
It's like that "I am a strategic geniu- OH NO!" meme.
This derisive analysis is missing information. IEDs are much more powerful than before (larger explosion, 100% trigger chance, no explosion delay), plus the removal of a need for 2 hauling trips to construct each one saves a ton of colonist labor. Of course I'll be watching play and change it again if needed, but this seemed like a better solution than reducing the explosion radius to match a single mortar shell (I'd rather tools be big and satisfying and a bit pricey, than cheap and weak and spammy).
The derisive tone in this message is both unconstructive and against the rules (rule 2: derisive tone as well as rule 1: personal insult). Remember that when you write here you're writing messages that I will read. I am a human. Derision and implied insults like this are both wearing on me personally as well as pointlessly dragging the conversation from "let's collaborate to make a better game" to "let's recreationally insult this game, what an idiot Tynan is, haha". That's why it's poisonous to the conversation and against the rules. If you see a change you disagree with, first actually play it to get some experience with it (because you may not understand it in context), and second write your experiences and thoughts on it constructively. Engaging in experience-free sniggering may seem fun, but it is rulebreaking, off-topic, and useless and that's why you were warned for this post.
roasted lol
----
i like the 100% kill, now i can spam it in designated cave & instant-kill the infestation
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Scenario: Crash landed
Biome/hilliness: Extreme Desert, Flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 72
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20ish
Complete mod list: Prepare Carefully (but not used in this run)
Started up a merciless run in an Extreme Desert for a change of pace. I rolled a decent starting set of pawns. No one with medical passion, but all pawns were capable of it and my highest was a 5 which is acceptable. Also no one with intellectual but I did have a Too Smart pawn that wasn't restricted from it, so I figured worst case I'd be okay.
Near the middle of the map was some stone with stoney soil around a ruin, so I settled there and planted potatoes immediately, while my builder stripped down all the ruins for stone and my cook hauled everything in. We get a wind turbine and AC up before any heat waves but I'm still concerned about what happens if we get one and then the wind refuses to blow, so I save all my starting wood in case I need a passive cooler.
Two of my pawns become lovers, which was helpful for saving space and for the mood boost. Unfortunately, i'm down to 2 days worth of food rations, no visitors or traders have come by with food, and the only wildlife on the map, 2 iguanas, were hunted awhile ago. We're going to starve unless action is taken and so my cook, who has decent shooting skill, takes one of the remaining rations and heads west toward the milder part of the desert in hopes of getting food.
Meanwhile, I expand my base using stone from the ruins and begin cutting more. I'm also trying to get batteries researched but it's slow going.
My cook arrives at the location and there is a herd of Gazelle there who promptly get taken down by his bolt action. I butcher them on the spot with a butcher spot and get about 200+ meat which is taken back to the colony. This provides enough food to last the colony until the potatoes are ready to harvest, and now we're stable. A thumbo wanders in and gets dispatched after a lot of door peeking and now I have enough thumbofur to craft a duster. My best crafter is only a 5, so I hold off on that for the moment.
As I'm working on getting a freezer built, the colony is raided. The raiders are killed easily but one survives who is a Tough, Trigger Happy, Quick sleeper with 11 crafting, intellect passion, good shooting and construction and no major health issues. I quickly convert my main room into a prison temporarily while building a cell for her, because this pawn rivals my starters.
Shortly thereafter I get an escape pod with a marginal pawn. They're okay at mining which I could kind of use to free up my starting pawn with mining, but they decide to leave after being patched up and I don't feel like adding an extra prisoner to feed so I let them go.
Base expansion continues as I build additional storage and get private bedrooms built using stone I'm now cutting from chunks on the map. The raider, Engie, joins the colony and crafts the Thumbofur duster into good quality. 70% sharp resistance, pretty damn good for this early.
Shortly after that, I get a incap'd refugee quest. I usually ignore these, but it's Engie's husband and I know if I don't do it I'm going to get hit with both the husband died and the didn't help mood debuffs which will make Engie useless. Considering how good of a pawn she is I really want to avoid that. The site is guarded by 2 turrets and 1 enemy. With my bolt action the turrets are a non-issue, so 1 enemy should be doable. I give Engie the duster and my starting Flak and advanced helmet and she goes off to save her husband.
She manages to take out the guard without being hit and saves him. As a bonus, there were two batteries which I claim and uninstall to bring back with me, saving me from having to research them. Engine's Husband, Xaiver turns out to be not bad. He has intellect passion and Too Smart, so I've found my researcher. The only downside is Psychic Hypersensitivity, so I make a mental note to pick up a foil helmet.
Engine gets hit with food poisoning from raw potatoes on her way back, and Xavier is still too hurt to walk so their caravan slows to a halt and they won't have enough food to make it. I send another pawn out to meet up with them with more food, and the three of them make it back a few days later without any further incidents.
I decide to start doing research hard at this point while pausing expansion to keep my wealth low while I push research. Engine and Xavier are set up on alternative shifts on the research bench. I get Solar Power, Smithing, Machining, Gunsmithing and Flak, and then push into Microelectronics and Multi-Analyzer.
Two of my pawns are sent out with my starting silver and the thumbo horn to the nearest neutral outlander to get Plasteel for the multi-analyzer (I had the gold already) and advanced components for fabrication. The pasteel is easy enough but there's no advanced components for sale. After dropping off the pasteel back at the colony they head out again to another base and trade the rest of my silver for 3 advanced components.
Meanwhile, we get another Thumbo but the duster only ends up being normal quality. Still not too bad. We got a trade offer for 4 dusters for an infinite chemreactor which was fullfilled. Not a huge deal but not bad. My two starting pawns got married then got divorced. I'm currently half-way through researching fabrication. Three of my pawns have come down with the plague and my best doctor is still a 5. They got 70+ treats on all three though, and this is the first time I've touched my starting meds, so I'm not worried. I'm not sure exactly what my next move is. Wealth is at 30k which is making me nervous, I'd prefer to be close to 25k or even 20k. i'm not exactly sure why it seems higher than usual. Maybe the thumbo dusters. I'm going to need to focus on increasing my combat power, although doing that will just raise my wealth even more.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I didn't mean it as an insult so much as a joke. It's hard to keep track of thousands of changes, so I just thought it was a funny oversight. I guess I'll just use a more boring tone. It was off topic I guess, though.
Relying on nutrient paste as main meal while also producing survival rations for caravans results in a lot of micromanagement since pawns will immediately take a survival ration into their inventory. So I have to watch the survival ration production like a hawk to immediately forbid any that are produced, and often having to persuade the cook to drop the ration he just produced.
Why isn't there a meal schedule like there is for drugs? It would be nice to control what pawns are allowed to eat, and what they are allowed to take into their inventory.
Quote from: Greep on August 07, 2018, 04:02:46 AM
In any case I do like using inspirations on power armor. Putting cyborgs in machine armor is weird and awesome.
Legendary lances are too good to waste inspirations to armors. 45 damage with 67 ap - potential torso one-shots on any humanoids. Excellent power armor is more than enough to have decent protection. ::)
Quote from: Polder on August 07, 2018, 09:20:50 AM
Relying on nutrient paste as main meal while also producing survival rations for caravans results in a lot of micromanagement since pawns will immediately take a survival ration into their inventory. So I have to watch the survival ration production like a hawk to immediately forbid any that are produced, and often having to persuade the cook to drop the ration he just produced.
Why isn't there a meal schedule like there is for drugs? It would be nice to control what pawns are allowed to eat, and what they are allowed to take into their inventory.
what i often do is to make a stockpile specifically for it, if i need 200 SPM, i put exclusive 20-tile stockpile, the pawns tend to throw produces all over the place, & you need to have haulers/doggies or manually merge them or wait for them to fill the stacks later
any new produce put on a forbidden stack become forbidden, so limit the stockpile zone to force them to put it at the right place, less micro-ing
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 07, 2018, 09:31:40 AM
Quote from: Polder on August 07, 2018, 09:20:50 AM
Relying on nutrient paste as main meal while also producing survival rations for caravans results in a lot of micromanagement since pawns will immediately take a survival ration into their inventory. So I have to watch the survival ration production like a hawk to immediately forbid any that are produced, and often having to persuade the cook to drop the ration he just produced.
Why isn't there a meal schedule like there is for drugs? It would be nice to control what pawns are allowed to eat, and what they are allowed to take into their inventory.
what i often do is to make a stockpile specifically for it, if i need 200 SPM, i put exclusive 20-tile stockpile, the pawns tend to throw produces all over the place, & you need to have haulers/doggies or manually merge them or wait for them to fill the stacks later
any new produce put on a forbidden stack become forbidden, so limit the stockpile zone to force them to put it at the right place, less micro-ing
Why not just exclude(via zoning) stockpile with SPM for anyone except cook and set cooking bill to deliver to that stockpile? Or place SPM stockpile near fine meals, so pawns just prefer fine meals over SPMs. Also never understand that NPD scrooging. At the point when you can spare some pawns from main base to caravan trips you already must have steady food supplies.
Quote from: Greep on August 07, 2018, 03:17:22 AM
WOW. Check out that market value. Cyborgs are hot.
Sigh. Pawn - 20k, legendary lance - 4k, good power armor set - 5k, some devilstrand clothes - 1k. Total 30k just at one pawn. 10-15 pawns and you fly above 500k like rocket.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on August 07, 2018, 05:21:54 AM
Quote from: Greep on August 07, 2018, 12:21:05 AM
Quote from: bbqftw on August 06, 2018, 11:11:08 PM
PPPS all IED costs doubled hahahahaha what a meme get funpoliced @greep
:(. Muh sapper control. Pity about the raid cap, I was about to let seriously let myself go just right now. It's 20k cap, but that's just to stop computers from frying I guess.
I like the evolution of IEDs:
"
-People aren't using IEDS, time to lower their cost by ~1/3 by removing the component.
-Oh noes people are using IEDs! double it!
"
It's like that "I am a strategic geniu- OH NO!" meme.
This derisive analysis is missing information. IEDs are much more powerful than before (larger explosion, 100% trigger chance, no explosion delay), plus the removal of a need for 2 hauling trips to construct each one saves a ton of colonist labor. Of course I'll be watching play and change it again if needed, but this seemed like a better solution than reducing the explosion radius to match a single mortar shell (I'd rather tools be big and satisfying and a bit pricey, than cheap and weak and spammy).
The derisive tone in this message is both unconstructive and against the rules (rule 2: derisive tone as well as rule 1: personal insult). Remember that when you write here you're writing messages that I will read. I am a human. Derision and implied insults like this are both wearing on me personally as well as pointlessly dragging the conversation from "let's collaborate to make a better game" to "let's recreationally insult this game, what an idiot Tynan is, haha". That's why it's poisonous to the conversation and against the rules. If you see a change you disagree with, first actually play it to get some experience with it (because you may not understand it in context), and second write your experiences and thoughts on it constructively. Engaging in experience-free sniggering may seem fun, but it is rulebreaking, off-topic, and useless and that's why you were warned for this post.
and what exactly was the use rate of IEDs by strong players in b18?
Ill just state several things regarding IEDs based on how they are typically used (in both observed streamer and my own play):
* it is faulty to relate their utility in most cases to either k*radius or k*radius^2 because enemy force concentration doesn't similarly scale up.
* since you cannot remote detonate IEDs you are looking at even more restricted uses (comparing to deadfalls you missed out if you don't hit multiple targets, my threshold is about 4+ to beat simple coverbaiting with deadfalls). Is IED use against sappers considered undesirable? Is it considered an exclusive tool against classic 'unsmart' raids (the classic types + assaulting siege)?
I will say that there are very effective enclosed IED setups out there, however they use very counterintuitive methods to achieve properly timed detonation and furthermore are only usable in killbox esque setups that guarantee the necessary enemy concentration.
And if they get revealed, the foundations of such play are in jeopardy. Come to think of it, there's a lot of interesting rimworld strategies floating around the internet in form of unlisted videos..
It is interesting you tell Greep to play the patch. Two things:
1. In the interesting of not wasting your time, you may not want to test things that on face seem grossly suboptimal (not everyone likes throwing away colonies with 10+ hour play time). You said it yourself, reloading is terrible way to play. Unfortunately, that precludes comprehensive testing.
2. Experience allows us the ability of simulating game states without playing them out. He has hours of experience evaluating the resource cost and utility of IEDs. If he fails, his win chance drops dramatically.
In other words I would trust greeps judgement over current state of IEDs vs you, whereas I am assuming you don't exactly have the time to grind merciless attempts in various biomes.
I'd also caution using streamers as a route to see efficient play. Their purpose is generally to entertain, not to improve, and there is also selection bias in that we tend to watch people that reinforce our view.
Most streamers feel elated for defeating a raid while taking many casualties. Someone with the attitude for learning will be unsatisfied with the raiders taking a single unnecessary shot.
@Tynan, what changed in building priceing so much? +30% to base wealth after 1.0->0.19 upgrade.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest/Mountainous (2C to 24C) 40/60 day Growing Period
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 373 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 20+ (been home sick in bed. perfect for testing)
Complete mod list: Conduit Deconstruct
graphs and screenshots - https://imgur.com/a/0mMZqbo
Let me just start with two requests - 1. Please bring back the new art for components, meat, et al. It made sense, it was not too hard to see, it was a refreshing addition that make the current components look like nonsense (no offense), and the current raw meat look more like a pile of kibble, or cooked meat, or literal feces. Raw meat is bright red. and 2. Can you just make Rimworld run by default in 64-bit so I don't have to make those extra clicks when opening it? Bury the 32-bit in the right click menu of Steam.
Every game I plan on having a story to tell at the end of it, but 373 days into my colony I realize the kinds of notes I take are more Things I Noticed and less, How We Lost Colonist A. I would like if in the History Graphs there was a way to look at significant events. I know you can hover over the little pink dots, but a little more would be nice to look back on a long colony like this. So forgive me if this is a little all over the place.
This is one of the the longest colonies I've had, and definitely the most stable I've had in a long time. Early on I felt like I had trouble balancing everything that I wanted my 3 colonists to do. I think this was partially a product of digging into a mountainside, although all of the bedrooms were against the mountain, not in it. But it was a good sort of feeling of always catching up and trying to get to a certain point but never quite getting there. It was a fun early game because of this, especially when early game can often feel routine after playing so much of one game (440 hours and counting).
I've felt inclined to do things that I've never done before in this game, which I feel is because every option is feasible in different situations more than they used to be. For example, I completely skipped over wind turbines, which is usually my go to, and actually relied on chemfuel for awhile in the early game, and still turn them on in the winters now. I also actually used the nutrient paste dispenser, especially early on.
On Caravans:
- There's definitely something to be done regarding clothes and caravanning. I'd like to see some kind of warning for if your colonists might suffer from hypothermia when caravanning with insufficiently warm clothes. Similarly, I tried to save a fallen refugee in the winter, but when I got there she was naked. I waited for her to be able to walk so as not to slow down the caravan, but almost immediately upon departure she fell again because she was naked. I brought clothes for her but there is no way to give them to her. We ended up being so slowed down so much that she died of hypothermia. I noticed later on in the game that when you transport pod somewhere all of the things you've transported fall onto the ground so you have access to them. I'm not sure if this is the solution to accessing more clothes while caravanning, but it would be nice to be able to clothe the refugees with clothes that you bring for them, otherwise saving refugees in the winter in the early-mid game is just impossible.
- We need either some kind of portable recreation to travel with, or to have recreation needs eliminated while traveling. Maybe you can make horseshoes, the hoop game, and the cards from the poker table all able to be added to a caravan to meet these needs. That feels more immersive than getting rid of the need. Or beer and smokeleaf could be adjusted to give just enough recreation to suffice on the road.
- I would also love if caravans that are less than, say, 0.5 days away from their destination (or even just if they're that close to home) push past their regular curfew and get home in the middle of the night. It's so frustrating to see half of your colony set of camp for the night 0.2 days away from home.
- Item requests have occasionally been useful, but mostly ignorable. Too often the risk is not worth the reward. I think when you're having to send the colonists away for days, and risking injury or death, it doesn't feel worth it when it's something you can just make. It's only the serums and AI cores that really feel like you want to take the risk, or when there's a colonist to gain. (I'm all for recruiting most colonists regardless of abilites (to a point) so saving a lot of them has been really fun.) Also raiding enemy bases for the silver does feel worth it because silver can be whatever you need it to be, plus dropping into their bases in drop pods is a blast. I also like the caravan requests, although in the midgame it became apparent to me that I'm unsure of if you can fulfill trade requests via pods or if you have to go to it yourself. If you can't already, podding those would be a great addition to the later game.
I had a great experience where a bulk trader helped me fight off a pirate raid, which was really fun. I was able to maneuver around them and work together and they didn't get mad at me for anything. It was super fun. They had one person shatter her spine in the fight though and they left her behind. I thought maybe the AI should not leave anyone behind and be designed to pick her up and take her with them just because they're not heartless monsters, but since they didn't I kept her in my makeshift hospital at the time and fed her and cheered her up. I realized pretty quickly that she was not healing at all and so she just stayed in that bed for maybe longer than a year. I was happy to keep her fed until we were able to buy or make a new spine sometime in the late game, but then one day she just got up and left! Is this a bug, or an act of God?
On Raids:
- Raid variety has felt really good. As you can see by the screen shot, I've gone without walls and with three (really four) access points to my base so I've been pretty vulnerable and without a killbox. It's only been in this later part of the game I've started doing some walling off as I prepare for the ship raids. I had one raid where three different raid groups landed in three difference clusters around the map and all attacked at once, but fled separately. That was one of the most fun raids I've ever had - fighting on three fronts and realising they weren't all going to flee together was really great. I haven't had any tribal raids because they've been neutral towards me (or more recently allied) so I can't speak to those. I've had a few infestations as you might imagine and they've been pretty scary but feel balanced. I think with the new combat system and how injuries are working it's making these infestations feel less overwhelming because you aren't as scared of losing a colonist. I also like that the deep drilling infestations are much smaller (and I think more aggressive?) because it gives you another type of infestation to fight off and it also gives you that positive feedback because you should be able to fight it off pretty easily (until one hits you at a bad time).
- Have you made death on downing more likely with raiders in the last week or two? It feels like it's so hard to capture downed raiders now. I'm not one to build these 30-50 people huge colonies, but I did feel like it was hard or impossible to keep up my warden's social skills without ever having anyone in my prison.
On Transport Pods:
- I thought that transport pods were straight up broken until I realized that you could build the loaders so that they attach. Maybe this could be made clearer when building them? I also don't understand the "Select previous in launch group" buttons for the loaders. What is it meant to achieve? This is unclear.
- Loading transport pods is also somewhat broken. It feels like it behaves a lot like caravans used to, where it works if you're loading multiple colonists, but if there's just one of them it takes them forever to load and they end up starving and passing out from exhaustion. Colonists should maybe follow their work/recreation/sleep schedule while loading pods so in order to avoid this. I also know other colonists can help load but they don't seem to prioritize it and it doesn't seem to work properly unless you're transporting multiple colonists at a time.
- When you're shooting transport pods filled with colonists and alpacas or whatever into the world, I'd like to see a how much weight they'd be able to carry once they land and become a caravan. I send my trader out to trade with a nearby settlement and he was immediately immobile. It would nice if you could see Weight of Pods (which you currently can see), Weight of Items, Carry Weight, or something like that.
On Building:
- I would like to see the minimum range for the Autocannon and Uranium Slug Turrents when building them.
- I would like to see electricity required as a stat when building something that requires electricity
- just like you can't overlap watermills within their in-water range, maybe you shouldn't be able to build bridges there too, for logical consistency.
- the tailoring bench was destroyed along with many other things in an Infestation. Everything automatically queued to be rebuilt except for the tailoring bench, and it is definitely in the home zone. I would also love to see the same bills already there when a bench is auto-rebuilt, but I'm not sure if that's possible. I think maybe it actually was like that for the brewery, but not for the drug lab.
On Tailoring, Clothes and Assignments:
- How do colonists decide what to wear? I customize it quite a bit, but if I allow dusters and parkas they don't switch with the change in temperature, whether it's winter to summer or a cold snap/heat wave. Would be nice if they made that change themselves.
- I love the way I can fine tune the tailoring bench and clothing assignments. I can set up each article of clothing I want them to wear to be made until we have (# of colonists), include equipped, only between 60-100%, and have them remove any clothing at 51%. That way by the time their clothes are tattered, they should have a replacement ready for them.
- That being said I would love to be able to do this with weapons and with food and drugs if possible. Setting up the workbenches to be the same would be easy enough, and then just adding a couple of columns to the Assign tab would mean that you could manage what food, drugs, and weapons are equipped at all times. It feels like such a natural fit for the game and UI I can't believe it's not already there.
--
I felt a lot of struggle to keep up with cooking this game. With a full freezer adjacent to the kitchen, autodoors, two stoves, two night cooks and a day cook, I was having trouble feeding 12 colonists at times. I really don't understand what was going wrong as I've never had this problem before, but it feels a little ridiculous to need 1/4 of your colony to be cooking full time in order to survive.
Also on food, I don't know if it's just the biome but I had so much wildlife to hunt at all times it felt like I almost could've gone without growing. It was just a constant flow of animals to hunt.
Wild tree regrowth seems really good, at least in the Temperate Forest. Not too fast to be spammed but not too slow to feel like it's not worth building in the forest.
I had a pretty hilarious situation play out with a couple of dead colonists. I was saving them in the freezer, hoping to find myself some resurrection serum. It turns out those are way harder to find than I thought. Because I had earned 3 early in the game I thought maybe they were more frequent. I haven't seen one since. Anyway, after a very long time with their bodies in my second freezer I decided to give up and bury them in a sarcophagus as they should be. But I noticed something odd - they were missing their heads. I'm pretty sure my dogs ate their bodies while I wasn't paying attention - which is hilarious. I also noticed that my colonists didn't get a Colonist Left Unburied debuff. Intentional?
I was definitely getting notifications even yesterday of colonists that weren't in my colony getting sick, as well as my log tells me I've lost 8 colonists but I only remember losing 5. I also had a colonist rescue mission for a colonist the game told me was previously in my colony, but I definitely hadn't seen her before.
The midgame feels good, but the late midgame/early late game starts to feel like a bit of a slog. It might just be me though, it just feels a bit like I want to be where I'm going already as opposed to liking the process of getting there. I know that's super vague and probably unhelpful but it's how it's feeling right now. Just for reference I'm still researching the last couple of ship building requirements and am trying to push through to late game.
The need for gold to make advanced components is difficult but probably necessary, but advanced components has definitely been what's been holding me up. I'm not sure if it's for the better or not but it does seem like something that should be at least a little bit hard to come by so if that's the goal, it's working. I haven't hit the depletion of steel everyone's been talking about yet due to deep drilling, and I also follow the ABC's of Rimworld - Always Buy Components - so that hasn't really been a problem for me either.
I'm not really sure what to make of the long range scanner as it still hasn't done anything for me yet. I get that it's a use for your researcher after all researching is done, which is great. I just haven't seen any results despite having two colonists set for nothing but researching for a long time now.
Please include the Conduit Deconstruct in the game. I wasn't using any mods for most of this run, but this one's near essential if you want to do any cleaning up of your mess of cables in the late game. It's maybe the only mod I see now as still being missing from the base game.
That's all I can put together from memory and notes so far. I'll be trying to take flight next and will report back with my late game feelings when I do.
Also, I just wanted to link to this long suggestion list which I think is really, really good for everyone who hasn't seen it.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=43150.msg425141#msg425141
Edit: I just had an allied faction fall to neutral because a wild wolf went revenge on them while their caravan was hanging around my base, and their goodwill fell to -30.
Update: Twice in one visit.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: bbqftw on August 07, 2018, 10:46:24 AM
It is interesting you tell Greep to play the patch. Two things:
1. In the interesting of not wasting your time, you may not want to test things that on face seem grossly suboptimal (not everyone likes throwing away colonies with 10+ hour play time). You said it yourself, reloading is terrible way to play. Unfortunately, that precludes comprehensive testing.
2. Experience allows us the ability of simulating game states without playing them out. He has hours of experience evaluating the resource cost and utility of IEDs. If he fails, his win chance drops dramatically.
In other words I would trust greeps judgement over current state of IEDs vs you, whereas I am assuming you don't exactly have the time to grind merciless attempts in various biomes.
I'd also caution using streamers as a route to see efficient play. Their purpose is generally to entertain, not to improve, and there is also selection bias in that we tend to watch people that reinforce our view.
Most streamers feel elated for defeating a raid while taking many casualties. Someone with the attitude for learning will be unsatisfied with the raiders taking a single unnecessary shot.
You know that you completely missed his point? e.g. The first sentence "This derisive analysis is missing information"
Furthermore this sounds like you have a personal problem with someone elses behaviour. Might better send a private message instead of writing literature in an unrelated topic.
Thank you.
IED's were changed again? Something I never use and wouldn't know to try due to changes because we don't know the changes and I don't have the statistic of everything noted down. Tynan I would honestly love to know what your base design vision is. What meta you are aiming for. Because killboxes are gone, apparently enclosed bases aren't your desired design either.
I tried an open base design with kill corridors for sniper turrets. My own people have a high risk of getting shot by my own turrets and manhunter packs are now a much greater threat, especially as they reliably break down doors when multiple manhunters attack a door once each (even one no one has gone through manhunters still just randomly attack doors). So that design is a bust.
Turrets and IED need you to concentrate the enemies to get effective fields of fire. It seems all your changes are going against concentrated fire and fixed defences (both staples of historical and modern combat).
As it is I could post the same story each day of how my colony starts out the same, without any experimentation, but my reports would never include IED, turret or traps in that case. I tried them several times throughout this process and without knowing that something changed I'm hardly likely to try them again. They all feel pretty useless with current raid types and prevalence. I get you dislike theorycrafting that happens on posting notes but I'm not someone that dives in to the files to look for changes nor do I have a list of values for items. I want to test things. Also how are we to know if something is a bug or intended behaviour? Maybe you wanted to not have infections send a letter how were we to know for example.
Edit:- from my past few colonies I hate the trader/visitor gifting it is way too much. First colony - 3 visitors/traders - first 11 glitterworld meds, next two left 700+ total silver (I had just bought advanced components off of one of them essentially making them free). Second colony - 51 plasteel, 700+ silver. Now this is at the start of the game when I already have - crops planted, store room, food being cooked, bedrooms, no colonists ill or injured. Oh and 11 glitterworld on day 2 or 3 makes you effectively immune to the first few diseases and infections even with no doctor. This is not fun. I you want this in to help new players or something then keep it to the lower difficulties not in hard and higher.
another not fun thing from past few playthroughs is infestations happening on large and small hills maps because you mined out 2 tiles of overhead mountain near your base. I'm not exaggerating it was literally 2 tiles in a storeroom. I don't tunnel in to hills as I don't want infestations (I'm totally fine with them if i was playing a mountain map or even digging in to large hills). Getting a 7 or 8 hive infestation just because of 2 tiles is stupid. I shouldn't have to keep checking for even the tiniest bit of overhead mountain near my base and then filling any in with walls.
PS I didn't have known about the larger explosion, 100% trigger chance, no explosion delay for IED's till you posted in reply to Greep. Now I may try them out.
Storyteller: Cass
Difficulty: Whatever Rough is currently called
Biome/hilliness: Taiga, Small
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age: 4-5 yrs?
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~4?
Complete mod list: None
Quote from: bbqftw on August 07, 2018, 10:46:24 AM
A. and what exactly was the use rate of IEDs by strong players in b18?
B. Ill just state several things regarding IEDs based on how they are typically used (in both observed streamer and my own play):
* it is faulty to relate their utility in most cases to either k*radius or k*radius^2 because enemy force concentration doesn't similarly scale up.
* since you cannot remote detonate IEDs you are looking at even more restricted uses (comparing to deadfalls you missed out if you don't hit multiple targets, my threshold is about 4+ to beat simple coverbaiting with deadfalls). Is IED use against sappers considered undesirable? Is it considered an exclusive tool against classic 'unsmart' raids (the classic types + assaulting siege)?
C. I will say that there are very effective enclosed IED setups out there, however they use very counterintuitive methods to achieve properly timed detonation and furthermore are only usable in killbox esque setups that guarantee the necessary enemy concentration.
And if they get revealed, the foundations of such play are in jeopardy.
D. It is interesting you tell Greep to play the patch. Two things:
1. In the interesting of not wasting your time, you may not want to test things that on face seem grossly suboptimal (not everyone likes throwing away colonies with 10+ hour play time). You said it yourself, reloading is terrible way to play. Unfortunately, that precludes comprehensive testing.
2. Experience allows us the ability of simulating game states without playing them out. He has hours of experience evaluating the resource cost and utility of IEDs. If he fails, his win chance drops dramatically.
E. In other words I would trust greeps judgement over current state of IEDs vs you, whereas I am assuming you don't exactly have the time to grind merciless attempts in various biomes.
(letters added for organization)
A. What would you do with that information? What non-snarky purpose do you have to open with that?
B. My experience differs. I'm usually able to land at least couple people in a well-placed IED. Where are you getting 4+ hits to compare to a deadfall? If you look naively at resource costs I guess, but there's more to it than that. If there's a big raid and two people walk over my IED I've done more damage than a two traps would, from one trigger. I've also caused some sort of interaction with the world from the explosion. Bombs can knock down roofs, set fires, set off chem-fuel. What's more I'm likely to hit more than 2 anyway if the raid behaves the way raids do.
C. I'm usually able to use IEDs well enough without kill-boxes. They usually end up replacing my most successful traps. Then again I don't play the highest difficulty where I can only get by with boring/easy to execute cheese strats like kill-boxes or door abuse.
D1. There's a reason he asks for many play reports. It's so he can get the comprehensive testing over people playing the game the way it was meant to be played and in many configurations. If you're providing 10,000 trials from the same colony or test scenario, that isn't as valuable as 100 trials from different colonies under different difficulties being run by different brains.
D2. Not even going to touch this one. It's dripping with arrogance and probably the main reason I wrote this post.
E. Don't underestimate what five years of consumer feedback over the course of a long period of time and many balancing configurations can provide. Also, why is merciless specifically relevant here? Merciless is meant to be unfair, and demands the use of boring cheese strats that are more optimal than tactical strategies. If you balance around Merciless the game is going to be poorly balanced very quickly.
People play this game on the highest difficulty when they can't get by on it without easy to execute cheese strategies and/or save scumming. Then they come out and say it's in one way or another an ego thing.
No one implied your opinions were useless because you don't play on merciless. You did that to yourself.
Show your setups. I am happy to learn.
PS I was referring specifically to tynan having better things to do than masochistic grinding runs on merciless, but that this means he has a gap of practical experience with those that do. And that this should not be dismissed.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, flat, river (year round growing)
Commitment mode: No
Colony age: 100 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4
No mods.
Me: newbie; playing his second real game (after his first got blocked by a bug). Still learning mechanics so toned down the difficulty.
Started with three great colonists:
Rissa: Apprentice oracle and Casket builder who does: cooking, medical, intellectual pursuits
"Rock & Hoe": Caveworld tender and Geologist: mining and agriculture specialist
"Bridge-it": Medieval slave and Hiveworld drone: shooting, construction, mining and plants with a great memory
Things started well enough; a few attacks by singles of which were were able to add a colonist or two. Some mad animals, but everything was easy to deal with. Mostly the struggle was trying to get to electrification and refrigeration. Colony got basically working and then got 3 rescue events and a outpost attack in a row. So formed up my 3 best shots, gave them my 3 best weapons, which wasn't much to write home about, and off they set off to save the world. They took minor injuries the first fight but saved a pacifist. Second fight was with all melee attackers and I had to save scum as I didn't really appreciate how melee vs ranged combat worked nor how fast they were and how slow my pawns were (I think at least one had food poisoning). Second attempt I cut down trees, hauled rocks and set up about 8 traps. We were untouched, will be placing traps every time now if I see melee defenders. Rescued a third colonist and got another joiner back at base, which managed to fend of a manhunter pack mainly through well placed traps.
Finally not long after the saviours arrived home the brother of one of my main colonists showed up asking for protection, we were happy to offer it and easily held off the bandits with the full crew. Now all of a sudden we were a large colony and though I'd anticipated the influx we struggled a bit with rooms and food. It was a diverse crew, but only one 80 year pawn had shooting above 10 and similarly only one with melee above 10, in fact most had combat skills much lower. We could build a colony, but could we defend it?
After an intense amount of building and figuring out everyone's best priorities and things were sailing along smoothly until I noticed some power outages. What's this? My solar panel is broken? Wait, so is my manufacturing table? Why did no one tell me about this? I checked my component levels, yup, all out. We were going to need to find a source of components and fast. Turned off as much as possible to reduce electric draw and looked around the map - not a single ship chunk or visible deposit to be mined. So we tamed a few more muffalos and alpacas and headed out to the nearest friendly outlanders. We packed basically all my food supplies, healing root, old clothes, and drugs; anything we could make more of. Plus my colonists were in good moods and one had a trade inspiration. Caravan was a success ending up with 38 components and a sniper rifle, but I was annoyed that no one would purchase my healroot, simple meals or tainted clothes, I couldn't even give it away as gifts!
Things kept going smoothly, and we completed a second component run before my base became fully operational, fully powered with a geothermal station and enclosed except for a bridge entrance and another ugly walk through a muddy pond. Survived a sizeable pack of manhunter raccoons even though they decided to attack a door. We still haven't found any components on the map, but I'm working towards a fabrication bench since we seem to have a lot of steel available instead, but it's a tightrope walk to save up enough for that (thanks to rimworld wiki for details) and keep everything running and powered.
First drop pod pirate raid hit, was only 5 guys and outside the base, some decent guns but nothing too scary. But when they decided to attack all of a sudden there was 4 more attackers I hadn't noticed... an additional raid, without warning? My team hid in the bunker across from our one heavily trapped bridge that led across the river into my base and fared well enough after I got over my initial surprise. Half the attackers started fleeing after a few casualties, so it definitely seemed to be two raids.
Finally started building the fabrication bench and it turns out it needs 2 advanced components - of which I have none. So I set out on another caravan journey with a couple stops, but no one else has them either. Hrm. I've built a comms console so maybe I'll get lucky with a passing spacecaft. Grabbed 35 more components while I could, and second shield belt, still annoyed the they refuse to buy some of my goods, and it's time to start prepping for the second winter. Might focus on an indoor grow-op of devilstrand while I wait?
Colony mental health has been good, not too many fights, despite 12 people in size with a few neurotics and depressives. I have a bunch of kind colonists and very few hotheads and everyone eats fine meals when they don't inexplicably eat pemmican.
Minor gripes:
Not getting notices for things I think I should.
Not being able to trade simple meals, herbal medicine, or tainted clothes on my caravan trips.
My first orbital trade seemed very awkward, it seems like I need to redesign my base to make that work (I have multiple stockpiles near where the items are used/made plus a catchall).
I have a ton of first-timer feedback that I will include elsewhere.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I'll echo others here as well and say that just like you see an option to build an End Table and Dresser when you select a Bed, or Tool Cabinets when you select an appropriate workbench, it'd be nice to see the same for Vital Monitors for Hospital Beds, Transport Pods for Pod Launchers, Fermenting Barrels for Breweries, Hoppers for Nutrient Paste Dispensers, Sun lamps for Hydroponics Basins, Batteries for Wind Turbines and Solar Panels, and maybe even Stools, Dining Chairs and Armchairs for Workbenches, TV's, and Dining Tables.
Storyteller: I switched from Cass to Randy.
Difficulty: Savage (on my last post I said 'Rough', actually meant 'Savage', the renaming confused me)
Scenario: Crash landed
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, mountainous.
Commitment mode: Nope.
Current colony age (days): 227
Hours played in the last 2 days: 15?
Complete mod list: Progress renderer.
I never used IEDs before 1.0 (0.19?). Since I used to get the occasional colonist activating spike traps, so I thought that maybe having automatic explosives all around my base wasn't in the best interest for my colonist's well-being. But with the latest changes, I have bit more trust in traps, and since they seemed cheap I tried them. I am in a mountainous region so there are a lot of natural chokepoints in my area that I can take advantage.
What I've seen with IEDs is that they are inconsistently decent but situationally strong. Because of the way enemies move (out of formation, getting ahead or behind the group, separating into several smaller groups), IEDs more often than not are only going to trigger to one, two, maybe three enemies, which can be significant or not depending on the type of threat and the stage of the game, unless you have a very good placement, that is going to be an inconsistent but decent value; and there is the more rare situation when you get a whole group in an explosion, that's really powerful. It's not going to do much against big bugs, centipedes or big animals (such as elephants), but it will kill or severely damage humans and human-sized animals. That's good enough reason to use them. At the cost of two shells per unit, they're still cheap to produce in the midgame, and if you're willing to butcher human corpses, they can mostly pay for themselves using the biofuel refinery to get the fuel to produce more shells and exchange the leather for steel.
I don't think that the use of IEDs is limited to enclosed spaces, though they do benefit from them. Artificially creating chokepoints outside the main defenses is not a difficult thing to do, even in flat regions. Using them in open areas it not terrible either, there are areas that are bound to get frequented by enemies, like in front of a turret line.
It's similar to mortars in that rating, though I'd say mortars are inconsistently weak, their explosions are less potent than that of an explosive IED, it may not even kill a single human with okay-ish armor. They still are situationally strong when you hit a big group, which actually happened to me recently. A tribal raid with 35 enemies, where two mortars damage enough of them that the rest of the battle was a complete slaughter (figuratively and literally). Only four or five escaped. I got this message the next day: (https://i.imgur.com/770pjBa.jpg)
Overall, I'd say IEDs are in a good place right now. For me, they provide a decent amount of value without trivializing raids.
Edit: I forgot a couple of things I wanted to mention.
1.- Can we have a 'allow human leather apparel' check, like the 'allow tainted apparel' in the outfit assignments? I want to give my bloodlusted colonists human leather clothing, but also don't want to force them into clothing.
2.- It would be nice to be able to smelt plate armor.
for me, with the current deafall/spike trap pacing
3 layers of spike, with wooden walls in between to route the raiders, a layer of IED next to perimeter wall, by the time those sapper wander there, they've already cluster up so it's effective enough
IED 're effective against infestation, since they spawn in large
you may also put wooden walls under digged out hills on the map then fill them with spike, IED, wooden floors, etc.
once a explosive IED explode, it'd cause the overhead of those hill to collapse, instantly kill those raiders, or incendiary IED which burn the wooden floors & walls & raiders
basically, just use it where it matters, where they don't run in line like AOE or Starcraft marching :/
It's a nice thing about roof traps in conjunction with IED. Even a regular roof has damage to one shot a neck. Which is enough to get it nerfed at some point in the future.
I am curious what you meant re: sapper since generally the rest of the group hangs back several tiles away from the sapper character. So I am having difficulty visualizing a setup where you are reliably nailing the big group.
I will experiment with standalone walls, see if that works for path manipulation.
normally the sapper(s)'d get separated from the group by going in 1st, & taken out by the 1st few spike, the cluster's actually what the IED(s) for, and the purpose of the spikes 's also to keep off the annoying wandering wild animals (though i don't know if they actually trigger IED like they do with spike, i never tried IEDs in middle of nowhere before
How do I enable the fun points graph + the rest of it?
Development mode on, then go to history and check debug graph
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 07, 2018, 03:29:35 PM
normally the sapper(s)'d get separated from the group by going in 1st, & taken out by the 1st few spike, the cluster's actually what the IED(s) for, and the purpose of the spikes 's also to keep off the annoying wandering wild animals (though i don't know if they actually trigger IED like they do with spike, i never tried IEDs in middle of nowhere before
Animals don't step on IED or traps unless maddened, I only saw them triggering spike traps if placed in a 1 tile corridor.
Since the IED thing was brought up more: It is difficult for me to want to test things without patch notes. If IED damage was increased I'm not going to know that, and my gut reaction will be to assume it wasn't and just that it costs double now for something that was mostly mixed success at the 1 shell price. That reduces potential feedback a bit.
Summary of two runs with the same goal: AD raiding and ship launch
Storyteller: Randy Merciless
Commitment Mode
Biome: start was probably temp forest
Scenario: naked brutality
Time: couple of hours
Complete Mod List: Numbers, Private Hair Style Collection
Since I saw a post here about a succesfull AD raid run with ship launched, I wanted to try it myself.
Since I mostly play on merciless, I chose it here too. Should not have chosen commitment mode, since the start and a bunch of other stuff is a big roll of dice.
So i started with the naked pawn, good with shooting and traits that at least have one mood improvement.
At first just set up camp, get some food supply. I did not notice before that a bow required crafting 2, cost me a lot of time to make and cancel knifes to get to 2, since the pawn had not a lot other skills besides shooting. Big annoyance, I will pay attention to that the next time.
After the pawn is established and has the first clothing I opened an AD. If unlucky and those are mechs -> pawn dead, if insects hit and run with a bow still kinda works. Best outcome are enemies in cryptosleep, because friendlies just dont attack insects. Also, an enemy pawn incapable of violence still is aggressive, chases and attacks on his own - feels weird.
Even after some equipment, ADs are pure chance with one or two colonists. The very small can contain a bunch of mechs and large ones can be pretty much emtpy - so there is no telling how big the threat is.
This is the point where I regret commitment mode, since I am testing limits reloading would be nice.
Anyway, I end up with power armor and at least bolt action rifles - good weapons are much rarer than everything else or I was just unlucky.
First run was just one pawn up until the end at the hidden ship site, the other one 3 up until there.
While traveling, I noticed that food poisening due to dirty cooking area is unpossible to prevent if cooking on a camp fire. I had times were my pawns got food poisening every time they are in the recovering stage and was stuck at places for a looong time. With a static colony I never had problems, but with this traveling it is huge. Bad cooking has also an impact but if I wanna survive I need military pawns, not gourmands eating all the food. Even flooring the surrounding 3 tiles and always cleaning did not help, maybe it even got worse.
Regarding campfires, some control how much heat they emit would be good - everyone can keep a fire low or let it burn hot; maybe add some options to control fuel consumption after it is build. That way it gives some temperature control. Now I can only put it inside if its below -10°C and still might need to keep the door open.
Another temperature thing is I had two pawns get "slept in the cold" when the room was constant over at least 15°C with comfortable temperatures between -2 and 50°C. Sounds like a bug.
Sometimes pawns would refuse to use the table with stool to eat although it was 8 tiles away, not occupied, no restrictions and hunger bar above the lowest. Could not figure out why, redrafting no help, doing sth didnt help either. Next meal was good again ...
I am unhappy about the muscle parasites and those other weird illnesses: I have no clue how long they are there, they dont get worse or better and they dont seem to require bedrest (apart from increases tiredness) so they just make a pawn worse by giving -15 mood from pain and feeling sick. So what I am missing here is some form of control: Give us some information in what state this illness is or add the possibility to research it with a doctor to gain info about it - something so that a pawn is not in danger of breaking for a completly unknown timespan.
Upon reaching the ship loaction the real trouble begins. Basically founding a new colony with decently equipped pawns on a tile that already has huge wealth, raiders never below 10 in numbers and since I started traveling right away, almost no research and no colony infrastructure. Before the first raid comes I dont have enough time to establish food (due to biome, shrubland) and beds so they dont break all the time. Also decontructing half of the ship doesnt help much, although it gives a few starting resources.
No defense mechanisms means raiders just run for the ship or batter through the walls surrounding it to destroy the ship - note that I did not start launch sequence. Or if colonist are outside they get swarmed. Also there is something weird happening with pawns retreating behind doors: Even if the distance between melees at the door is two tiles and they have a ranged weapon, they just run back to the closing door and engage in melee combat. That is quite frustrating and ridiculous.
I could safely say that both attempts failed at the ship site, because I was unable to defend and raiders just smashed the ship to pieces.
As people said before - less destructive and more pawn and item oriented raids would be cool - see a pawn vanish ebhind a door, smash it and capture him instead of smashing stuff and then just leaving without a gain for the raiders. Maybe only the pirates try to destroy everything and just burn the place.
So all in all with my setup, where I reach the ship site with just equipment seems unpossible to manage. One destroyed required part means I have to research ship building which kinda kills the point going there and spending years researching turrets, IEDs, mortars kills the fun part of it making a run on the run ;)
I am not sure what I need to change to keep the spirit and still make it work on merciless difficulty - turning that down a notch would be a possibility but not what I am looking for.
For now, the huge wealth spike and that I have to defend all the vital parts of the ship are the challenges.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough/Tribe
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, permanent summer/flat.
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 450
Hours played in the last 2 days: Too much to admit :)
Complete mod list: none
We are the tribe of Koek. We fought, we adapted and finally we fled this hellhole of a planet.
and this is our feedback.
I don't know which version I started playing this tribe, but it has seen quite a few updates the past week.
-Early raids were quite easy, although it didn't give me a lot of prisoners due to most of the raiders dying instead of going down. When the raids grew I had more raiders going down, which slowly gave me a good pool of pawns to recruit from. Eventually I ended up with 16 living colonists and 3 casualties.
-I had to suffer 3 toxic fallouts, one during a volcanic winter, which were more of a bore than anything else. It is a deadly event if it comes too early for a tribe, but with sufficient preparation at every point during the run it is very manageable. A big freezer and a smaller one which stores excess haygrass for the animals and a sunlamp or 2 which are only roofed up during fallouts and volcanic winters did the trick.
-After the early smaller raids they started to get bigger, which gave me a few upgrades over the recurve bows I was still using. I never researched great bows because the weapons the raiders brought me were better and I decided to rush for bolt action rifles instead. I think it would be a good thing if great bows were easier to get for a tribal playthrough. Perhaps some love for some changes on the research tree for tribes are in order here? Because why should I research great bows when raiders bring me sufficient weapons untill I can craft those myself? Tribes need other research first to survive some early game disasters like fallouts or mechanoid raids. Key researchs has great prerequisites in general, like the weapons when going for turrets
-Mechanoids: the early raids are very dangerous for a tribe, but when you eventually research turrets and get geared up they become much more manageable with proper defensive setups. They stay deadly until the end though, so lost limbs, deadly rng storylance shots and a few unguarded moments still take their toll. Some balancing seems in order tbh. More armour options (read dmg reduction vs evasion) are always welcome. There is fun and FUN :))
-Traits: I like the transhumanist one. Early game the mood penalty is easily manageable and lategame they need very little mood management due to the increasing mood buff.
I eventually had 2 chemical interested colonists, which were less of a chore than I remember. Maybe because I improved on my gameplay. I gave them the best bedrooms and gave them a work and useage schedule which gave them ample time to see to their needs to keep their mood as high as possible to mitigate the amount of useage binges to a minimum. I still like to skip pawns with this trait, but the ones I recruited had skills I needed at the time and were quite good overall, so it was worth the chore.
Ascetic is a very welcome trait, but harder to manage if they get in a relation with with a greedy or jealous (a trait which I try to avoid especially when I already have a greedy pawn, due to wealth increasing incoming danger vs mood management). Ascetics keep your wealth low and thus raids easier.
Undergrounder is not worth to aim for. My full time researcher did not have that trait and I never got any problems from that pawn, even though he was indoors most of the time. Maybe a good trait if you play a mountain base with very little outdoors interaction. Either have the outdoors mood bar to drain faster or just get rid of this trait.
I never use abrasive pawns. Increases the amount of social fights and are simply a walking mood debuff. Harvest for organs and banish :)
I tend to avoid the more negative traits in general (ofcourse), but some combinations make the bad traits a non issue, like Very neurotic and Psychically deaf or Ugly and Kind, the latter of which is a nice walking mood buff.
-small suggestion: I'd love to have the option of right clicking on weapons and apparel and designate them for hauling priority and smelting. Saves me some hassle with the smelting menu.
-Hauling: When the kitchen is busy all of my pawns free for hauling were in my freezer merging stacks and wasting a lot of time in general. This could use some love, since I love how stacks are merged, but my pawns freaking out in the freezer because they have to move meat with every meal created is tedious to watch. especially when moods are dropping because other areas are a mess.
Less restacking, more cleaning please :) No suggestions on how to fix this though. Good luck.
-The 15 day ship warmup. I removed all work schedules and had all my pawns on 'anything' 24/7, to have them deal with their minor breaks because of the sheer amount of corpses laying around and them having to fight through sleep schedule times.
I read a post suggesting a 'victory' mood buff after winning against a raid. Don't know who it was or in which thread (sorry) but I'm all for it.
In general I liked the 15 day chaos. My most critical moment was when 10 scythers dropped into my hospital, wrecking everything all while a sapper crew was advancing on my walls. The scythers managed to cut a power conduit, shutting down my western turrets, ofcourse the way the sappers came from. No idea how I didn't lose pawns during this ordeal :))
-Raids: Normal raids become easy with a decent setup
Sappers can be baited into your turrets or bottleneck themselves to death in the hole they make. No problem at all.
Sieges are just a weakened raid if you drop some mortars on them. Easy.
Mechanoids are a pain, but manageable when you learn to counter them. A shootout is a no go before getting long range weapons (maybe I should research those greatbows after all :))). As long as they don't drop inside your walls they can be led into a killbox I guess (which I didn't use this run, or ever tbh)
-I kept social fight to a minimum by refusing pawns with negative traits like ugly and abrasive and by having universal recreation time, forcing everyone into my recreation/dining room giving them daily moments to interact with everyone. Most pawns had all positive thoughts about everyone else, that is, until the cheating and divorcing started. Unfaithful bastards :)
-I managed wealth and mood by combining a few rooms, like dining+recreation. Maybe it is worth trying a baracks next game, making it easier to keep wealth low and impressiveness high. Don't know, no further thoughts on this.
-Drugs management: I haven't used anything other than beer and smokeleaf and mostly used it to boost mood at critical moments and for trade. since having a chemical interest pawn (and 2 later on) I got rid of all the strong stuff asap.
A small suggestion: give us checkboxes in the drug policy tab for minor/major and extreme break risks. In combination with the % slider it gives us an easier, less tedious, menu game
-In general I'd like to see a more polished and intuitive menu. Small things like having the wildlife tab open and clicking on animals in that list without the menu closing for example.
-On the work tab, when hovering over 'hunt' it just says the average of both skills. I'd like to see the Shooting skill and passion added to this.
-When adding a bill at a workstation to create a weapon, I'd like to see the weapons damage and range added to the big 'i' icon and/or the details tab in the list of bills.
My most memorable moment this run was when my lvl 19 crafter got storytold in the heart by MY OWN charge lance, which was wielded by my full bionic (2 archotech eyes and 1 archotech arm) colonist Sam. Thanks RNGesus. Happy times.
Petra, you will be remembered.
I love to hate this game and sometimes I hate to love it. Rip my time and rip my mood when something goes wrong. Next time I'll play a harder biome or randy rough.
Thanks for a great game Tynan & team, hope you keep improving it. Good luck handling all the feedback in your search for a well balanced game.
Cheers :))
Quote from: Tynan on August 06, 2018, 10:50:27 AM
Regarding maximum range, it just refers to the maximum targeting range.
The gameplay reason they can miss beyond this range is because to do otherwise would add a bunch of complexity to the math around miss chances. Depending on how it's done, it could look weird, cause more damage in some particular situations, or open up weird game-y tactics.
In fiction, you can imagine it any way you like. I'd just call it them knowing not to shoot past effective range, just as real soldiers don't shoot at targets they could theoretically hit just because it's too far to be effective for their weapon.
It's not worth adding the interface, balancing, tactics, AI complexity to make this work so as with many many other cases we're sticking with the straightforward max-range/miss the same at every range system. There's many more important things to focus on.
Thanks very much for taking the time to address this.
One addendum: if you feel it's prudent, would it be possible to have the Range description in the weapon stats page reflect this? Just a brief description of the fact that the "Range" stat and the corresponding graphic "halo" is the maximum range that a weapon can be used to target, but that projectiles can travel further than this distance. Currently when you mouse over the "Range" entry on any weapons stats page, it's blank.
Thanks again.
Quote from: Koek on August 07, 2018, 05:03:12 PM
...
i like the drug idea, considering not everyone has the same break risk level, & it's fast, rather than bunch of sliders, & i actually dont even know which point of the sliders i should even put for each of them & the drug :|
so newer players 'd be even more confused, i currently just stick with ~37%-40% recreation/mood then manually 've them use drug if needed immediately
Quote from: mlzovozlm on August 07, 2018, 05:38:04 PM
Quote from: Koek on August 07, 2018, 05:03:12 PM
...
i like the drug idea, considering not everyone has the same break risk level, & it's fast, rather than bunch of sliders, & i actually dont even know which point of the sliders i should even put for each of them & the drug :|
so newer players 'd be even more confused, i currently just stick with ~37%-40% recreation/mood then manually 've them use drug if needed immediately
Exactly, and as it is now I struggle to get the exact % I want on the slider. Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't adjust it using the arrow keys and the slider is just too finicky.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Jungle with a small river and mountains
Commitment mode: No, though I play in that style
Current colony age (days): 25
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8
Complete mod list: None
Short Story About Food PoisoningContext: I started with a lvl 4 cook, cooking in a room with dirt floors (-0.95 clean). I did not see food poisoning until day 19 (I started cooking around day ~8), then hardly a single day went by without multiple incidents. From day 19 on at least one person was in some stage of food poisoning at all times. I didn't last long enough to get my kitchen cleaner and see how that impacted things.
day 19: 2 food poisonings (Ally, Perfection)
day 22: 2 food poisonings (Ophelian, twice) - Ophelian got food poisoning, then went on a food binge when it hit major. Having had food poisoning serveral times, that's about the last thing I would do if I mentally broke down during it. That being said, it was pretty hilarious to watch her get through 3/4 of a meal, then drop it and vomit everywhere, then pick her meal right back for try number 2. Then... get food poisoning a second time from that meal. Literally: drop meal to vomit, pick meal back up and start eating, recover from food poisoning, finish meal, get food poisoning. I was crying with laughter.
day 23: 2 food poisonings (Opelian, Perfection) - Openlian got food poisoning with her morning meal. That was 3 meals in a row for her. She must hate Ally (the cook) at this point.
day 25: 1 food poisoning (Ally)
- Raid. *Everyone* has food poisoning at this point (one recovering, one intial, one major). Move speeds 2.02, 1.01, 1.01. One of my colonists literally didn't make it to the fight, despite being in her bedroom when it started. Thank goodness my husky is trained and we're on rough, so I only need to down one raider. We survive.
- I take a refugee event late in the day, since there are visitors and a war caravan around to fight for me. I get a luciferium addict :(
- I push my luck and hunt some elephants (I'm pretty much out of food due to food poisoning at this point), thinking that the war caravan will help if things go badly. They do -- but it's not enough. A herd of elephants pounds down my doors and everyone is gored to death.
Other notes:
- I think buildings are breaking down without a warning message. I'm not sure if that is intended or not.
- Jungle with caves: 2 sets of ants broke out of hidden areas. It's the first time I've seen that.
- Hunting panthers trigger 2 sets of ant attacks on my colony.
- Is it intended that when a pawn vomits it cancels their task, even if forced? I queued up 5 "refill passive cooler" tasks to a pawn with food poisoning, then watched her grab some wood, walk out of the storeroom, vomit, drop the wood, cancel her current task, then go back into the storeroom to grab wood for the next "refill passive cooler" task. She only successfully refilled the final passive cooler, leaving me to re-assign the first 4 again. It seems like she should vomit, drop her wood, and retry her current task. Assuming the task was assigned manually. (Edit: I tried this a second time with only a single task queued up: she returned to her current task after vomiting. So maybe this is an interaction with the task queue?)
I saw that you have set the manipulation stat to control how much materials someone can lift.
If its not at 100%, it wont lift the whole stack right?
But despite someone having 80% manipulation, he should still be able to lift two units of yayo...
I guess your idea was for it to take around 80% of the stack in this case, but it should be 80% of the maximum stack, not 80% of the current one which is less, otherwise what i said above will keep happening.
Doubling the cost of IED traps is fine with me. They scale so well with raid size, it's pretty ridiculous. And only the ones that explode need to be replaced. I've been abusing them mercilessly. I have about one hundred IED traps in lattices on the approaches to the base. I just repelled a ~110 man tribal raid, losing only eight animals because I handled it all with explosives and bullets instead of an Alpaca Charge.
QoL request: with as many combat animals as I have, it is a chore to balance them among colonists. I'd really appreciate a basic auto-assigner button. Something simple, like: 1) assign all bonded animals, 2) walk down all other obedient animals from highest to lowest wildness, assigning each to the eligible colonist with fewest animals, breaking ties arbitrarily.
Rambling: I want to try playing with fire, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to integrate it into my defenses. The trouble is that it conflicts with my IED traps. I don't want a whole lattice of traps to go off, but I do want a whole entrance to turn into a wall of fire. I'll experiment with some incendiary traps, corridors, and dandelions. Dandelions secret OP?
Im having a tough time with a colonist with broken pelvis.
Since it wont walk again unless you make some sort of prosthesis for it, can we get an option to dress downed colonists?
She has been like this for several years and her clothes will be none soon. I will need 2-3 heaters on her room so that she doesnt die of hypothermia!
Quote from: jchavezriva on August 07, 2018, 09:22:44 PM
She has been like this for several years and her clothes will be none soon. I will need 2-3 heaters on her room so that she doesnt die of hypothermia!
Yeah I stripped someone with a brain scar and now she's been lying naked in her bed for going on a year now. I'm just waiting for some mech serum to show up in a quest or a trader.
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Savage
Biome/hilliness: Ice sheet/mountainous
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 109
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4h13m
Complete mod list: none
I had an issue with turret reaction to predator's hunting pawn. A hungry lynx decided to hunt my pawn. So I drafted her, then she shot, 1 bullet hit but 2 missed (no manhunter state). The lynx got near and bite her. However, my turret didn't recognize the lynx as hostile, it was just stand still like nothing happens. But I managed to get her indoor with wounds all over the body. Then there was transport pod crash, and the lynx went to the unfortunate victim.
I don't understand why doesn't the turret consider harming wildlife (non manhunter) is hostile. Or maybe this is something that should be fixed.
Stress testing new >10k point raids. Merciless/cas/committed etc.
It starts with a refugee raid.
(https://i.imgur.com/6LCP7QK.png)
We accept.
150 raiders. 50+ doomsdays and triples.
My computer melts, the entire fight processes at close to 3 FPS. At the point I realize my base is breached (there is a funny story behind this, because it wasn't even technically my fault), I start frantically spamming insanity lances. Friendlies pod in and mostly die.
I am actually a few seconds away from absolute disaster, since in the insanity I do not realize a doomsday is aiming at a cluster of my troops. But with less than a second on the aim timer, we get magic kill #75, and they break.
It would have been enjoyable fight if it wasn't this ridiculously laggy, but this is quickly getting to the point where even a relatively recent computer cannot really handle this. And I am only at 16000 raid points...
Aftermath - glad I didn't greed on firefoam or else this entire part of the base is a complete loss.
(https://i.imgur.com/rSoCM22.jpg)
Guess no more refugee chases. Pity, they were quite interesting.
PS I like how my wealth went up due to the raid despite the entire upper half of my base being ravaged.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): ~900
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10 (turns out time flies really fast one sea ice)
Complete mod list: None
3 more years. Somewhere along the line, I end up starting to accumulate a bit of steel. I think this is because I've stopped building additional hydroponics as huge raids are giving enough goods. This lets me buyout trade ships of what I want and allows me to call some caravans to at least transform wealth into useable wealth. But in any case that means it's time to go 100% full throttle: only minor wealth control, not even bothering sacrficing virgins to adaptation.
Due to the chemfuel meal nerf I'm actually literally using human meat for fuel. Not even joking about that, it's just what makes sense. Honestly it's kinda gross even for Rimworld's standards, but that's sea ice for you. Because of this and for many other reasons including no longer caring about raid sizes, it's time to whip out haul-o-dogs. I start out with two huskies and a couple pigs. Pigs get hypothermia so I make some bacon and get some more huskies.
Sky high expectations hits and it means my crafters are not getting inspirations and I'm getting regular breaks. So also time to focus on making bedrooms. Because the raid cap was basically removed, I'm not going to get like 50 colonists, so I settle on 4x4s with sterile floors and jade statues. I'd get some joywire for non-combatants, but relation bribing seems like it was nerfed a bit, so I'm just going to wait for a trade ship.
I start recruiting some more colonists, and a wanderer joins with chemical interest. That's workable in a ship launch game, but in a megafort game, he's useless, so I turn him into chemfuel. Unless I'm wrong, even if you can replace kindeys, you can't reset tolerance, and once you hit about 50% tolerance you're just garbage. At 70% you're a liability. Overdoses and eating too much profit. No thanks. If I had more high end power armor, I'd stick him on the front lines, but I don't. Pro suggestion: eliminate tolerance on chemical X.
Both cannibal lesbians have legendary/masterwork gear now. Both using emps, one on missions, one staying behind. Nelson the cyborg has a ridiculous 17 shooting from so many missions and an archotech eye getting him 98.5% trigger happy accuracy. This is actually more for show than anything by now, since in the end game without door-peeking and huge raids, most of the work is cannons, slugs, mortars, and emps, although he's a real kill in drop pod attacks and missions.
Blobs of doom are showing up. I have to decline chased refugess as one tribal one had over 100 dudes. 10 centipedes with about 20 minor mechs is the largest so far. Still the only guys to knock out turrets have been drop pod attacks. I've been really careful lately. So far enemies having killed anyone, although one ended up with a faceful of heavy charge fire. She was firing a triple rocket on a blob, and it took longer than I expected to fire. Incidentally, the triple launcher was not very effective against the centipedes, so I'm not sure what I'll do if I have to face like 30. Frag spamming? *shudder*
A significant minority of raids are having issues finding the entrance to the fort, probably due to all of the layers of single walls. I've been doing this so my mortars don't destroy too many walls, but it looks like it screws up the A.I. or something. One manhunter horde just couldn't even figure out how to get inside so I just mortared them to death. This could also be because sea ice movement rate and the path cost to actuallt attack the colonists.
Sea ice does have one really nice advantage: Outside movement speed is about 25% due to snow and ice. This means I can actually aim accurately with mortars at just about anything by firing a bit ahead.
With the change to both IEDs and chemfuel, I've been using them as backup. I keep a bunch uninstalled, and if something horrifying comes at a really bad time, I fill my corridor with them. This hasn't happened yet: The worst so far was a randy dual attack with a mech horde. But turrets and emps were about to handle the mechs while my dudes mortared the sappers.
Speaking of mortars, sieges still seem to break instantly if you hit them right as their drop pod items fall down. This could be a coincidence, but something feels buggy.
Had to take a slight break from lumping: Didn't have animal hauling, and I couldn't keep up. But that's back again and can be seen on the graph. It also looks like known threat: none may actually be none now. Which is pretty nice as I was starting to ship in 10 spike traps, a lance, and 5 terminators to do lumping. Or maybe it's a coincidence. Patch nooootes :(
[attachment deleted due to age]
I have to admit these new builds have been extremely fun to play. There are just a few balancing things that stick out to me.
- Giving a colonist a prosthetic (not bionics) seems to increase his/her value too much. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
- Devilstrand feels like it takes too long to grow and the required grow level is too high. By the time it is all good and ready I've already got flak armor on my people.
- Megascarabs feel OP in their combat abilities. I say this mostly because the infestations I've been getting make the other threats look extremely weak by comparison.
- Insect hives take too long to spawn new bugs. I would rather see weaker bugs that spawn more often.
- I understand there's already a small swing in how much daylight occurs in each season, but it doesn't seem noticeable from a player's perspective. Shouldn't season have a bigger impact on things like solar and wind power?
- For how rare they can be, healer mech serums should heal more than just the worst injury on a pawn.
A pack of manhunting animals gives a lot of meat. Maybe the animals should be poisoned so that the meat is inedible.
Well manhunting people give a lot of meat too. Just sayin.
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 02:39:05 AM
A pack of manhunting animals gives a lot of meat. Maybe the animals should be poisoned so that the meat is inedible.
Maybe you just leave to rot corpses if you dont need a meat? Pretty simple solution. You dont need to do anything, developers dont need to do anything, all who love manhunters meat delivery dont need to hunt excesively. All happy.
PS My freezer looks so empty, i want bigger manhunting packs.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I think meat should come mainly from animal breeding, milk producing animals, hunting or trading. Not manhunter packs that bring thousands of units of meat in nice packages.
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 02:53:39 AM
I think meat should come mainly from animal breeding, milk producing animals, hunting or trading.
Did you try to feed 20+ mans colony via animal breeding or milking?
So I haven't seen much about the update to .19, but I'm seeing some changes to the research screen. Very cool!
Besides this, I'm noticing what might possibly be a bug. I'm not sure if this is because I'm playing on a map created on 1.0.
With a raid of one tribesperson, a tribal named Cheetah appeared outside of my walls and prepared for a while. I pre-emptively sent out my rifleman, and he proceeded to shoot at him. For some reason, he just...didn't respond? Like, he just took all these bullets. It wasn't brain damage or anything, but he significantly damaged him until he finally died from 5 bullets.
Seems obvious to say that he should have tried to at least take cover or charge me with his club?
A suggestion, regarding Scattered Mech Drops (and one that might already have been made):
It is sort of difficult to tell how many Mechs you are facing; hovering over the "Raid" envelope will bring up an arrow that only indicates one Mech at a time.
Usually, the work-around is to pan back as far as you can, double click on a given item, and the system will tell you how many of those items are currently on the visible map; of course, it won't tell you how many are not visible off the area that you're currently viewing.
This isn't a game-breaker, by any means...it just takes a player longer to identify how many (and what type) of threats they're facing.
Even something as basic as a running tally message ("'X' Scythers Remaining") would let you know when you've fully defeated the threat, and can safely reconfigure your base and colonists' settings to a non-Raid footing.
Quote from: Awe on August 08, 2018, 02:56:28 AM
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 02:53:39 AM
I think meat should come mainly from animal breeding, milk producing animals, hunting or trading.
Did you try to feed 20+ mans colony via animal breeding or milking?
Apologies for the theorizing.
The way I envision these changes as follows:
Manhunter packs no longer yield cookable meat.
Animal breeding and milking is buffed a little, but not so much that it becomes as good as cultivating crops in terms of nutrition per work. Animal protein should represent a food resource that is somewhat more valuable and difficult to acquire.
Players are allowed to change the eating behaviour of colonists. What meals they are allowed to consume, whether they take meals into their inventory, and whether they are allowed to eat human meat. This works similar to the medical care settings.
With these changes a colony can produce a variety of meals and control the consumption. In your 20+ people colony, some pawns will get cheap meals while others will get expensive ones. To get anything better than simple meals and nutrient paste you'll have to hunt, breed, milk or trade (and breeding/milking is more viable).
This also solves the problem of trying to produce survival rations for later use in caravans in a colony that depends on nutrient paste (where every pawn, including the cook will immediately take a survival ration for later eating).
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 02:39:05 AM
A pack of manhunting animals gives a lot of meat. Maybe the animals should be poisoned so that the meat is inedible.
I agree, however, their corpses should count as full market value.
On that lines, maybe reduce the sell value of insect jelly a la guns (x20%) but keep the market value. You can poison it too so it can't be used for cooking either.
I suggest introducing a mood hit for seeing mechanoid corpses as well. Since your main reward for defeating lategame humanoid raids is a corpse and weapon disposal party, why shouldn't mechs be the same?
Then we can all be happy that defeating big threats only brings wealth spike and no actual utility. Sounds great to me.
I like how you had to edit in the essentially /sarcasm ;)
In any case, if poisoned manhunters happened, you'd be the most hated person on the forums Polder, so I let's hope it doesn't.
Edit: ah missed your next post. Even still by posioned I assume you mean insta-rot like toxic fallout since that would save dev time. That makes getting leather too harsh. I'm hording heavy fur just to hope my clothes don't fall off and you never know when the next megasloth brigade comes to town.
Hello Tynan! I just want to thank you for your amazing game and all the work you did. Rimworld is the best game I've ever played and the way you did it by listening to the community of players is really amazing. Thank you again for your work. :)
Here is a pic of the current situation
https://imgur.com/a/2LwiJuM (https://imgur.com/a/2LwiJuM)
You'll see a small bloodbath, along with a downed colonist and another next to him who lay dead. While Elida fought bravely, she had been fighting 3 men at once. Ichabod alone had been able to pick up an autopistol at the end of the initial battle in order to chase down the pirates, who were now attempting to kidnap Joseph, Stalzer, and Xandy. Unfortunately, Stalzer had not been saved in time, and The Crooks (actual name of the pirate band) gained another slave. Press F now to pay your respects for Stalzer and Elida.
It was so bad, that after Ichabod rescued Joseph and Xandy, Xandy proceeded to scavenge some smokeleaf joints from the raiders, wasting no time in lighting it up. That's when he was downed for the second time, too stoned to even stand. The common grieving of a Rimworlder is even greater when he loses two friends. To be fair, though, it was a battle of 3 versus 5, in all reality, and it is day 40. I don't have many good fighters (especially not now lol) and Xandy is my only shooter. I didn't play it strategically, though, having been caught in the middle of construction.
Just goes to show that sometimes maybe you should ignore refugees -shrug-
I was always told, though, "No good deed goes unpunished."
Happy Rimworldin', folks!
Here's to 5 more years!
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest (Permanent Summer) - Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age: 508 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8-10
Complete mod list: None
v.1987
Game Notes:
-Installed my first Bionic Heart, because one has been laying around for a while, doing nothing. I like the outcome, which is increased movement speed, along with increased blood pumping.
-Surrounded my base perimeter entirely with 2 rows of staggered wooden traps, the first of which is right along the perimeter wall; they handle Mechs nicely (Lancers and Scythers, specifically), but something that size is a project to maintain. Flammability is still a serious issue, of course...and one that I still don't have a sufficient amount of non-flammable resources to counter at the moment. Moving from wood to any other material is not possible, due to the full resource loss of that material. Even getting a percentage of the material back (25%) would make using other materials more enticing. Flashstorms and any incendiary weapons are still a major concern.
Relocating traps is nice, but in practice, it takes a very long time of pointing-scrolling-clicking if you're using large numbers of them.
-A Trader friendly faction did some dirty work for my colony, and largely fended off a Pirate raid while they were hanging outside my base, post-trade. It was fun to watch.
I re-learned a lesson, though - don't save *any* friendly faction animal, unless you've made sure the animal can walk. I saved a friendly faction bull that had gotten brain damage in the fight, and didn't realize it at the time. After I brought it to my barn and saved it, it just...sat there. In my barn. Forever. While my colonists wasted time keeping it fed. I had two viable options: try to feed it Wake Up to get it mobile again (which pisses off the friendly faction), or to euthanize it completely (which pisses off the friendly faction even more).
-I'm trying to figure out whether I want to keep my guys armored 100% of the time or not, because of the time it takes to change out of normal clothes (for me, standard non-combat wear is always Devilstrand pants, long sleeve shirts, Duster and Hats (both made from the strongest leather/fur I have available). I'm reaching a point where I think it's better to just keep them in combat gear all the time, since I've been caught too many times by a raid where my guys weren't armored, and it took too long to get them outfitted.
This of course means that tailoring drops far down on my priority list, as will Devilstrand production: as long as I have cold weather outfits, I don't forsee needing to tailor much in the future. I'm sorry to see a whole dimension of the game get relegated to an afterthought, but the necessity of keeping everyone as protected as I can is kind of forcing my hand on the issue.
Were apparel changes sped back up again to B18 levels, tailoring and normal clothes would become more viable again, I think. I'm not sure I entirely understood why the increase in apparel change was introduced...in B18, even in a dedicated armory which facilitated the clothing to armor change times (I've built dedicated armories in just about every game I've played), it took a while for colonists to get to the armory, and then to get to where the fighting is. If any pawns are less than 100% health, this takes even longer. Perhaps the context of the increase in apparel change speed could be re-examined to see if it's performing its intended function?
Tonight's Graphs:
(https://i.imgur.com/O65Cyak.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3598XEd.jpg)
Randy Merciless on Sea Ice
Mods: Numbers, Private Hair Style Collection
Chickens of a trade caravan just stole my meals that are located behind doors and in my stockpile.
Also forbidding the door obviously does not work. Do I have to place a wall in front of my doors now, everytime I get a trader?
Sounds like a minor issue, but on Sea Ice that can easily mean death if trader animals now steal food.
I cheated and played a cannibal so it wasn't a huge issue for me xD That said there's nothing to do in the beginning but research and haul slag, so putting a wall in front of the door for a day or so sounds like it'd work.
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 03:34:51 AM
Apologies for the theorizing.
The way I envision these changes as follows:
Manhunter packs no longer yield cookable meat.
Animal breeding and milking is buffed a little, but not so much that it becomes as good as cultivating crops in terms of nutrition per work. Animal protein should represent a food resource that is somewhat more valuable and difficult to acquire.
Just try to build animal farm one time. Im ok with overall concept, but currently game dont have good enough tools to make animal farm worthwhile. Im tried to do chicken farm 2 runs ago and its just a annoyance - too much player micromanagement to control over population and too much pawns work time required to feed animals and gather their products. Imho, in current state only few pack animals(like 2-3 muffalos) worth their keeping. Even a hauling doggos is a whim - its just better to recruit more pawns to do exclusively hauling job.
Quote from: Awe on August 08, 2018, 08:10:57 AM
Even a hauling doggos is a whim - its just better to recruit more pawns to do exclusively hauling job.
I keep doggos as tanks for hunting, and have pawns for hauling, dogs breed like rabbits while pawns are not so easy to come up with.
Plus, in the event of a toxic fallout, doggos can save you (I slaughtered all of my doggos because pawns were starving only to get the event ending seconds after that. >:( >:( >:( )
I also agree, manhunter event is fine as it is. Debatable part where emus destroy 6 turrets, but still OK (f.e. yesterday I had 12 does/rams, and no turrets got destroyed).
Hi,
Sorry, not a full report.
I started a new game with 5 tribal people. I was surprised to see a message from a friendly IA telling me where to find an escape ship. It seems weird according to the scenario printed at the beginning of the game with this faction. It seems more consistent to find another goal for there pawns.
Anyway, it's still amazing to play :)
Quote from: anitram on August 08, 2018, 09:12:19 AM
emus destroy 6 turrets
Well, they are emus, what did you expect?
Quote from: Koek on August 08, 2018, 09:33:23 AM
Quote from: anitram on August 08, 2018, 09:12:19 AM
emus destroy 6 turrets
Well, they are emus, what did you expect?
Makes me remember how Australia gets jabbed for losing a war to emus... playing RimWorld taught me why.
Maybe I should replace my war party of boars with emus
Quote from: Blato on August 08, 2018, 09:38:28 AM
Maybe I should replace my war party of boars with emus
Enjoy the risk of taming emus :))
Quote from: Awe on August 08, 2018, 08:10:57 AM
Just try to build animal farm one time. Im ok with overall concept, but currently game dont have good enough tools to make animal farm worthwhile. Im tried to do chicken farm 2 runs ago and its just a annoyance - too much player micromanagement to control over population and too much pawns work time required to feed animals and gather their products. Imho, in current state only few pack animals(like 2-3 muffalos) worth their keeping. Even a hauling doggos is a whim - its just better to recruit more pawns to do exclusively hauling job.
I agree. I'm trying to make it more worthwhile to keep animals for things other than defense or hauling.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Desert
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 98
Hours played in the last 2 days: 2
Complete mod list: None
Ieds traps are now quite balanced for the price; but enemies now turn around every traps, like if they see them.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Nynzal on August 08, 2018, 08:02:43 AM
Randy Merciless on Sea Ice
Mods: Numbers, Private Hair Style Collection
Chickens of a trade caravan just stole my meals that are located behind doors and in my stockpile.
Also forbidding the door obviously does not work. Do I have to place a wall in front of my doors now, everytime I get a trader?
Sounds like a minor issue, but on Sea Ice that can easily mean death if trader animals now steal food.
Had the same thing happen to me on sea ice a few builds back and I did the same thing you're thinking of I walled in 9 stacks of food for emergencies only. Chickens are a scourge. They eat very often and when all I have lying around are meals they eat me out of house and home.
I really wish we could designate an area for visitors. If it's nice you could get a bonus to relations, if you murder them all... your relations would tank.
On a side note I had a hungry wild wolf on the map go after and kill a yorkie as the animal trader was entering and I got a penalty to my relations from it. Seemed a bit unfair.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest / Small hills
Commitment mode: No, but only reloaded when trying to figure out the tornado generator
Current colony age (days): 204
Hours played in the last 2 days: 6-8
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer
Scenario: Crashlanded
Versions: .1968 - .1987
We launched! OMG! That took so long and the whole ship building process was harder than expected. I hadn't built a ship since A15 and hadn't launched a ship since the first time you could caravan to one. I usually have other goals or endpoints in my games (oftentimes thwarted by the forces of RimWorld) than launching the ship. This playthrough started fairly normally and was even somewhat story free for the early to mid-game. Leopard and Ziggy got married and soon after Artemis and Sexton got married. We survived various raids and even had some successful caravan requests, item stashes, and incapacitated rescue missions. In fact, very early on (in the first half of the first year) we got an item stash quest for an AI Core. We were "ambushed" by 2 melee pawns which were easily dispatched and we carried that critical piece back proudly. Since we had decided from the beginning to get off this planet as quickly as possible, we rushed to ship building research and its prerequisites, ignoring stuff like gunsmithing, turrets, medicine production and other stuff until needed or I was waiting for the multi-analyzer.
The real story started once we built 2 ship structural beams. I measured room for 12 sleep pods but had 14 colonists. Unfortunately Randy must have heard me say, "Well I guess I'll just have to leave a few behind" and he started making those decisions for us. We lost our best researcher, negotiator and original colonist in our first poison ship fight. I considered leaving Alpha behind researching since he had poor shooting skills and was fairly valuable, but figured this was a fight for everyone. Two lancers and 2 scythers popped out of the ship and the first shot of the first lancer hit our beloved Alpha straight in the heart, ripping through his heavy fur duster and flak vest. The incident was so shocking and tragic to us that it was even carved into his sarcophagus. And thus began our seasons of sadness. In response to loosing her friend Alpha, Hermine decided to go on a psychite binge. Hermine was a master crafter and the only one intelligent enough to craft medicine. She was so valuable to the space going efforts of the colony that I had been keeping her out of all conflicts even though she was a level 15 melee specialist. We thought about stopping her but how? She was decked out in a shield belt, thrumbofur duster, advanced helmet with flak vest and wielding a thrumbo horn. She took 1 hit of the flake that Randy had dropped on us (which we ere planning on giving away) and instantly overdosed to death. Oddly, as valuable as she was to our efforts to get off the planet, she must have kept to herself since everyone only got the minor "Colonist Died" moodlet from her death. She was immortalized with an engraving of her finishing off one of the advanced components that she crafted so well.
The next deaths went beyond friendship and finally revealed to me how deeply the family ties ran in our colony. Artemis was felled by a silent infection that did not get the proper treatment it deserved. Her husband attempted to save her with Glitterworld meds but even that miracle medicine was too little too late. Sexton was understandably upset but I noticed Shouta was too. Turns out Shouta is Sexton's father and considered Artemis a friend as well as a daughter-in-law. Only days later we got the good news that Shouta's wife was available for rescue and guarded by only a single enemy. We rescued Duxdabee fairly easily, but failed to bring enough food to wait while she got healthy enough to walk. We had to forage for food while we waited. As we waited, a sapper raid came to the base. I sent Sexton, another master crafter and melee specialist, to lock up the grenade thrower in melee while the rest of the team took shots at the other attackers. Then a lucky shot from an autopistol at nearly max range penetrated the steel helmet he was wearing and removed his brain. Thus Shouta came home victorious with wife in-tow only to discover the tragedy of his son's death. In 2 real days, I had lost 4 colonists. The next 2 days I actually mourned for these digital denizens and mentally berated myself for allowing the deaths to occur. This also got me thinking about those I had lost in real life and this little game created and fostered real emotions in me.
Looking around at how Sexton's death effected everyone I discovered that Leopard and Sexton where step siblings since Duxdabee was Leopard's mom and Sexton's step-mother. Of the 15 colonists which had lived with us 6 were connected by family bonds of some kind and now 2 of those were dead, leaving us with 11 colonists. Of these 11 we were left with only 1 high-end constructor (Yuna, an original colonist), 1 crafter capable of advanced components (Harms, a brawler) and 1 good artist (also Yuna). Art was the primary way we were converting easily available resources into the nearly unavailable plasteel via trade. I decided that these people and Leopard, my only competent cook, were too valuable for fighting and kept them inside for each raid. We got very lucky and had a meteorite of uranium crash close to the colony fairly early in the game and ignored it until we started needing its resources.
We prepared for the engine startup fight while waiting for the advanced components to finish off the sleep pods. Regular and uranium turrets were placed in strategic locations. Lower skilled crafters worked on flak pants and helmets for all. Finally it was time to startup the reactor. With nearly daily raids we faced challenges and loses. Seven days out from startup a mech raid dropped in the middle of my base, landing directly on Yuna's beloved pet chinchilla, Gizmo. Though it took some micro-management, I actually buried Gizmo next to the other colonists in a place of honor. Then only 3 days away from startup a sapper raid of pure grenade / molotov users attacked. They took the same route into the base as 2 other sappers had before which forced them into a narrow gap between rocks and into a well prepared ambush. I forgot that grenade throwers had no regard for their fellow man. I locked up the first one through the gap with a warrior named Saburo wearing Marine armor (ie Power armor) a shield belt and wielding a thrumbo horn. He took down the first one almost instantly, but when engaging the 2nd one, all the others threw grenades at him. Five frag grenades went off close to each other killing/downing nearly half the attackers but also removing poor Saburo's head. With just 1 more attacker easily killed by multiple assault weapons, they turned tail and left us with a pile of bodies, structural damage, and a headless colonist. He was immortalized by a carving of what he did best, downing an attacker with glee. More raids came, some from multiple sides, some from right on top, but with luck and a lot of micromanaging we repelled them all and took off as soon as the reactor finished starting up.
It was an interesting, stressful, yet fun exercise to actually launch the ship and fight off all the different raid types with different strategies. We even used a tornado generator that we had gotten from a trade request on a siege to great effect. In the future I would not want to launch a ship. The grind for advanced components and either uranium or plasteel is hardly worth it. I would rather play on a harder difficulty and create my own challenges (reach a certain level of wealth, last a set number of years, gain a certain number of colonists, or do a number of trade deals / missions successfully) or play on an easier difficulty and build the coolest base that I can or manage multiple sustainable colonies.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 10:53:23 AM
I agree. I'm trying to make it more worthwhile to keep animals for things other than defense or hauling.
I totally agree with the goal, once upon a time I did a ton of analysis and balancing to try to make the farming case viable (several alphas ago), but it's hard as hell to actually get all the balance points working. Especially given how straightforward hunting is, and how manhunter packs deliver mass meat/leather. It's hard for raising animals to compete with that without being ridiculous in other ways.
My deep drills only extract 1 chemfuel per unit... It's not even worth bothering. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? This is with 0.19.1987
Quote from: bobomite on August 08, 2018, 05:09:51 PM
My deep drills only extract 1 chemfuel per unit... It's not even worth bothering. Is this normal or am I doing something wrong? This is with 0.19.1987
If you start a new game this will be resolved; chemfuel isn't a deep drill resource any more (since you can use the biofuel reactor).
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Savage
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest/mountainous
Commitment mode: Nope
Current colony age (days): 305
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8
Complete mod list: Progress renderer
Is there something going on with the number of resources mined by drill? Like with the chemfuel a few builds ago? I'm getting a ridiculously low amount of uranium and plasteel. It already killed my uranium supplies. If that's intended, it's too little to maintain uranium slugs. I already invested research into the tech, materials into the scanner and drills, spending time drilling, fighting the occasional infestations (which also consumes the durability of the turrets), and presumably getting stronger events for possessing the resources :-\ I don't feel like this amount it's worth all of that.
Edit: Oh, do I have to start a new game too? I think I started this game after chemfuel became unobtainable by deep drill.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on August 08, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 10:53:23 AM
I agree. I'm trying to make it more worthwhile to keep animals for things other than defense or hauling.
I totally agree with the goal, once upon a time I did a ton of analysis and balancing to try to make the farming case viable (several alphas ago), but it's hard as hell to actually get all the balance points working. Especially given how straightforward hunting is, and how manhunter packs deliver mass meat/leather. It's hard for raising animals to compete with that without being ridiculous in other ways.
As stated earlier, manhunters should be tainted meat or something... they are driven mad by... something, right? Maybe even the fur should be mangled in some horrible way to be not as usable as well. The point of the packs isn't to deliver a boon but to be a sort of violent challenge, right?
Quote from: dearmad & Polder on August 08, 2018, 06:18:59 PM
...
Manhunter packs are the last home map threat event type, that brings at least some kind of reward for beating it (instead of hiding from it) aside from maybe crashed ships, that still do give those AI cores (i wonder for how long it will stay that way). I just cannot understand people, that actually ask for removing last bit of rewards from threat events. Raids give you tons of corpses to burn through and be disgusted of, a whole bunch of dirty tainted rags to dispose of and some cheap weaponry, that takes more storage space than its worth for sale. Mech raids after severe dissection nerf now give tiny scraps of plasteel, while still being deadly and extremely annoying to get rid of. Most other events that bring danger with them, don't reward you with anything for pulling through (blights, drones, heatwaves, cold snaps etc).
And now instead making other challenges more rewarding, so that player will be excited about trying to deal with them, you want to just make manhunters be poisoned (which are affected by psychic drone that happened somewhere actually, not poisoned), so that at every event in game player's reaction will be something like:"Ffs, not again!". Thats kind of amazing, well done. Keep it up. A game, that rewards you for overcoming a challenge only with letting you survive until next challenge is incredibly fun to play indeed. Keep it up, guys.
Even better, make meat and meals from them have a chance to make animals go mad and colonists berserk. Do not add anything that lets you automatically process these corpses separately. Increase player interaction to forbid or cremate them manually. This form of player engagement is consistent with current human meal mechanics.
Also make meat from animals killed by drafted pawns have a chance of lead poisoning or bullet fragments that cause internal bleeding and stomach damage. That would reward proper use of the hunting job. To buff raising animals, make a common trait for colonists to only like to eat meat from tame animals that have been ritually slaughtered. Wild meat should have a chance of causing parasite diseases.
^ This needs to be in the game.
I'll chime in - add in a chance for inexperienced butcher to leave some bullets in the meat, if the animal wasn't killed in melee. A meal cooked from such a meat will have a chance to break pawn's teeth upon eating, which causes constant moderate pain moodlet. Can be healed only with healer mech serum.
But the tainted pelts and meat should be worth 10x what regular meat is worth and never rot or degrade. And nobody actually buys it.
Getting back to being serious though, manhunter packs do give a lot of meat - sometimes enough to forego hunting entirely for a long time. If they somehow gave less I wouldn't really mind. Especially if that meant I could get more plasteel and advanced components from psychic ships.
Should this thread not be renamed to "Unstable build 0.19 available" and the first post edited? And maybe something said on Steam? People are getting sad wanders and berserks over it.
Quote from: dearmad on August 08, 2018, 06:18:59 PM
As stated earlier, manhunters should be tainted meat or something... they are driven mad by... something, right? Maybe even the fur should be mangled in some horrible way to be not as usable as well. The point of the packs isn't to deliver a boon but to be a sort of violent challenge, right?
No. Just no. The event is fine as it is. Differing risk levels based on animal and differing levels of rewards as well. As others have said it is the last event that has a decent reward sometimes for taking the risk. You don't have to fight manhunters, they can be totally ignored. but you can take a risk and get a reward. I don't want to fight mechanoids if I can at all help it the risk v reward of confronting them is really bad. Manhunter packs sometimes I want to take the risk other raids are risk with little reward for overcoming them and I only fight them because you are forced to.
Honestly the animals dropping meat is only a problem because the corpses are not taxed appropriately by the wealth IRS that decides how many centipedes to pod into your base. This should be remedied.
On related note, one of the decisive parts of year 1 is how many BAR / mid-tier weapon raids are sent, since such weapons are very nice to have for the month 3-6 special threat encounters. However, I think this sort of dubious progression goes against the spirit of the game. As Mssrs. dearmad and polder point out, why should a raid be a boon?
However, its not easy to solve this problem. The most apparent idea to affix a tainted designation to weapons as well (I noticed that the tainted malus was increased in this patch, probably in response to people killing prisoners in power armor to lower their wealth value!!! great job.) However this would remove a large skilltesting component of later game raids, since tainted destroys market value. This skilltesting component is the decision of whether to burn the weapons or smelt them at obscene time cost for scraps of steel, since a 75-100 man pirate raid can easily drop 50k of weapons that cannot be liquidated at anywhere near accepted market values, so if you don't want IRS to punish you, you better come up with a solution.
I would instead suggest that any non-colonist downing / death immediately downgrades all items worn by two quality levels. This would also promote ethically sourced clothing and weapons, which require fabrication tables, research (see below), etc. Otherwise you're kind of cheating the wealth control system. Yeah I said it.
Alternatively, you could just make tainted modifier only affect sell value and not market value (I can't take credit for this one, my brain is not big enough)
Furthermore, in line with eradication of most traditional progression metrics, I would point out that research points are fundamentally not taxed by the raid algorithm. They have infinite utility/wealth ratio! I suggest that research points also are included in the raid point calculation. This would have the benefit of also challenging tribals more for their research, reflecting historically typical troubles of a society attempting to industrialize.
QuoteBut the tainted pelts and meat should be worth 10x what regular meat is worth and never rot or degrade. And nobody actually buys it.
Very good. I think this would further promote fire utilization, which is one of the three skills that fundamentally distinguishes mediocre and great players.
Quote from: Tynan on August 08, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 10:53:23 AM
I agree. I'm trying to make it more worthwhile to keep animals for things other than defense or hauling.
I totally agree with the goal, once upon a time I did a ton of analysis and balancing to try to make the farming case viable (several alphas ago), but it's hard as hell to actually get all the balance points working. Especially given how straightforward hunting is, and how manhunter packs deliver mass meat/leather. It's hard for raising animals to compete with that without being ridiculous in other ways.
Makes sense. But if domestic animals can't compete with maddened rhino meat, then... don't make them try? Give them reasons to exist that don't have easy substitutes. Hauling, combat, and Boomalopes' chemfuel work this way.
- There's a B18 mod that adds Chocolate Bunnies. Hilarious and unique. Doesn't matter if it's inefficient.
- Nuzzling feels like a random, incidental effect. Instead of a random colonist, pets should only nuzzle their master. That way, I'd feel like I have control over it and be motivated to get a pet for each colonist.
- Playing with a pet could be a recreation source.
- Milk and eggs are just substitutes for meat right now. If they (or chocolate or insect jelly) were required for lavish meals, they would have a distinct, specific purpose.
- If woollen furniture had a comfort bonus, then wool wouldn't just be a substitute for mid-tier leathers.
Alternately, you could let farms stay weak at high difficulty, but some QoL would make it more fun for lower difficulties:
- Assigning animals to multiple zones would be nice.
- An estimate of nutrition needs would be nice, especially on maps with winter.
- Managing unfertilized versus healthy/ruined fertilized eggs is clunky. Ruined fertilized eggs should transmute into unfertilized to simplify things.
Edit: Wow, you guys are trolling
hard on raid progression. What is so hard to get about 1) civil discussions, and 2) having lots of expensive stuff in a bad neighborhood attracts thieves?
Quote from: SchizoidCrow on August 08, 2018, 05:23:28 PM
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Savage
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest/mountainous
Commitment mode: Nope
Current colony age (days): 305
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8
Complete mod list: Progress renderer
Is there something going on with the number of resources mined by drill? Like with the chemfuel a few builds ago? I'm getting a ridiculously low amount of uranium and plasteel. It already killed my uranium supplies. If that's intended, it's too little to maintain uranium slugs. I already invested research into the tech, materials into the scanner and drills, spending time drilling, fighting the occasional infestations (which also consumes the durability of the turrets), and presumably getting stronger events for possessing the resources :-\ I don't feel like this amount it's worth all of that.
Edit: Oh, do I have to start a new game too? I think I started this game after chemfuel became unobtainable by deep drill.
Nah this was changed in the defs to those amounts. I'm guessing it was in response to bbq's gigantic uranium piles and xeonovadan suggesting plasteel still felt abundant. Which might even be correct for people with extreme levels of experience. But that looks way too harsh for a normal player.
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on August 08, 2018, 07:34:59 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 08, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 10:53:23 AM
I agree. I'm trying to make it more worthwhile to keep animals for things other than defense or hauling.
I totally agree with the goal, once upon a time I did a ton of analysis and balancing to try to make the farming case viable (several alphas ago), but it's hard as hell to actually get all the balance points working. Especially given how straightforward hunting is, and how manhunter packs deliver mass meat/leather. It's hard for raising animals to compete with that without being ridiculous in other ways.
Makes sense. But if domestic animals can't compete with maddened rhino meat, then... don't make them try? Give them reasons to exist that don't have easy substitutes. Hauling, combat, and Boomalopes' chemfuel work this way.
- There's a B18 mod that adds Chocolate Bunnies. Hilarious and unique. Doesn't matter if it's inefficient.
- Nuzzling feels like a random, incidental effect. Maybe instead of a random colonist, pets should only nuzzle their master. That way, I'd feel like I have control over it and be motivated to get a pet for each colonist.
- Playing with a pet could be a recreation source.
- Milk and eggs are just substitutes for meat right now. If they (or chocolate or insect jelly) were required for lavish meals, they would have a distinct, specific purpose.
- If woollen furniture had a comfort bonus, then wool wouldn't just be a substitute for mid-tier leathers.
Alternately, you could let farms stay weak at high difficulty, but some QoL would make it more fun for lower difficulties:
- Assigning animals to multiple zones would be nice.
- An estimate of nutrition needs would be nice, especially on maps with winter.
- Managing unfertilized versus healthy/ruined fertilized eggs is clunky. Ruined fertilized eggs should transmute into unfertilized to simplify things.
As someone who always builds a big farm, you raise some interesting points.
I have to be honest: I am not the sort of player who goes in for min/maxing efficiency. I build a large farm every time, because given the circumstances, that's the sort of thing I'd expect a colony to do to help its survival.
With all of that being said:
now that animals have to be maintained, would it be simpler to just increase the meat/leather yield on tamed animals exclusively to make a farm more viable? They're eating cultivated hay, manufactured kibble, and being tended to when injured or sick. I'd expect a domesticated animal who's being better fed, sheltered and cared for than it's wild counterpart to be bigger, stronger and healthier as a result.
Whether or not any change happens, I'm still going to try for a large farm in every game, even if it's a net loss of effort. It's a pain in the ass, but honestly - it's one of the things that makes the game cool.
For me, the thing with animals, at least for me, is that they have a certain level of maintenance attached to them. If Randy gives me a cow, I could keep it and milk it, but then I'll have to make a barn, assign allowed areas, assign an animal handler, plant hay for the inevitable winter/toxic fallout/wildfire, regulate the temperature of the barn for seasonal changes and cold snaps/heat waves, tend it when it gets the plague, make sure its safe during events, tend it when I forget to do that, feed it by hand because a warg bit its legs off, euthanize it because I don't have animal prosthetics to replace its limbs, and so on; or I could butcher it, get some meat now and plant a field of rice instead of hay. If I'm going to go that far out my way to keep an animal, it better contributes in a meaningful way, hence defense, hauling, and caravanning.
The Rim is inherently hostile for domestic animals. It's hard for me to justify investing resources into them when I'm constantly being assaulted and always desperate for more defense, productivity, and quality of life. It's the same reason I avoid long caravan trips.
Quote from: Greep on August 08, 2018, 07:43:20 PM
Nah this was changed in the defs to those amounts. I'm guessing it was in response to bbq's gigantic uranium piles and xeonovadan suggesting plasteel still felt abundant. Which might even be correct for people with extreme levels of experience. But that looks way too harsh for a normal player.
I see. Thank you.
Edit: I mean... by the time I need uranium to maintain turrets I usually have a strong enough economy that I can just do this: (https://i.imgur.com/XQb8p45.jpg). I'll have my miners go into caravans instead, it's just not ideal to have colonists away. The change would probably affect more during the mid-game where I'd accept the few scraps of material; late-game is a matter of convenience.
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Caravaning. Forest, Desert, Boreal Forest etc.
Commitment mode: Sorta scummy, Tribal Start
Current colony age (days): It's dead (See wealth graph below)
Hours played in the last 2 days: 6-8?
Complete mod list: Core.
Spent 4 in game years caravanning. Setup a base for a year, Travel for a season, etc. My goal was to make it to the crashed ship, which was unfortunately in an extreme desert. Didn't quite make it...
Anyway. The core game feels really good now. Used to need Combat extended to make the guns feel powerful. Much better on that front. Still immersion breaking that tribes can get all the guns they need in one year yet tribal raids don't really have any.
Minor issues:
Table debuff. Still don't get it after all this time considering you can't put tables everywhere.
Can't specify food consumption during caravans. Should be able to ration food to stretch it out by a bit (This actually killed me as my pack animals consumed all my rations very rapidly leading to a starvation spiral).
Major Issues
Wools seem pointless in the current system. They don't provide much heat/cold and have terrible protection. It's so bad that my tribesmen preferred old leather tribal wear over new button down shirts and pants. This only changed once I had flak pants and leather shirts.
Enemy bases sometimes seem incredibly ill-prepared for the climate they are in. For instance you would expect that an outpost ina hostile environment would be kitted to actually reasonably live there. The fortifications are pretty nice, but their living zones are pretty terrible. For example, a faction I attacked in a rather inhospitable desert only had unrefrigerated simple meals and no crops. Like what? How are they living there? Bit of an immersion breaker.
Potential Exploits:
Heaters and other furniture can be used to transport large quantities of material cheaply. Heaters for example weigh 6kg, but can be broken down into near 40 steel which would take up 20kg normally. This makes it really easy to bring enough mats along to start up. Sure there's waste, but if you are traveling waste like that is inconsequential.
Also sieges seem to give up way too easily once you have a mortar. Get one good hit and they charge your fort. Sometimes they didn't even get their mortars set before they would charge.
[attachment deleted due to age]
I found out why my colonists no longer start with extremely low expectations on game start. The floor wealth is now counted for every tile on the map that isn't fogged.
Quote
this.wealthBuildings += this.wealthFloorsOnly;
So, it's no longer possible to add wealth to rooms through the floor without increasing the building wealth. That fixes the exploit.
Also, it removes the one sense of progression I had in the game. My main source of fun was to slowly improve the base by converting the floor into silver and gold tiles. It took a long time, but it was fun to try to survive during the process.
Reading the code, I see that everything meaningful counts toward wealth. Pawns, items, buildings, floors, even corpses apparently. It seems to me there's no point on working to accumulate wealth anymore. Having legendary sculptures, nice furniture and beautiful floors work against you. They increase the raid size, and also increase expectations, while not increasing the colonist mood enough to compensate.
I don't know what the solution is. I do feel that tying wealth to the difficulty is not fun. It adds perverse incentives. When players sabotage their own weapons, taint their own armors, in order to work around the wealth counter, something's not right.
Perhaps the difficulty could be induced by other means. E.g., the player could defy other factions, progressively wiping out the evil pirates, while facing increasingly challenging odds. That yields a tangible goal for the player (improve the world!) while not unduly penalizing the accumulation of wealth.
My hope is that the floor change gets reverted. Yes, it's an exploit, but it gives a sense of progression which is currently lacking in the game.
With that said, I like Rimworld a lot. Best of luck with the continued development.
The final holdout of "progression without stronger raids" is research. So I have a feeling we'll see that loophole close.
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Merciless struggle
Biome/hilliness: Tundra, Flat
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 420
Hours played in the last 2 days: may be 15~20
Complete mod list: HugsLib, No Froced Slowdown, Numbers, Display Radius[1.0], Easy Speedup, Allow Tool
Scenario : Naked Brutality
Status: Escape to space.
Game version : 0.19.1987
I tried to play the game with low property.
Under 200,000 it was easy.
When you expel a person A, the rescue mission continues to reveal that person A.
Only person A has more than four missions to rescue.
I think deep drill nerf was necessary. Plasteel is now a 'real' precious resource.
The floor and the body made it very difficult to manage the property. In particular, floors are very expensive value compared to effects. I think you should either increase the effectiveness of the floors or make it less expensive.
Allies get up in bed for self-treatment.
Social fighting has become very dangerous. Teeth ... Too bad. It leaves injuries worse than bullets.
The drop to the base during the unstable period has been balanced. However, the bugs from the mountains seem to be out of control. It comes out too much.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Merciless struggle
Biome/hilliness: temperate forest, large hills
Commitment mode: yes
Current colony age (days): 40
Hours played in the last 2 days: 7
Complete mod list:
So now you no longer start the game with extremely low expectations as you are about 3-4k over the 10k wealth limit for it. Tried starting two colonies one crashlanded the other tribal and both had a fairly large amount of property wealth without doing anything at all. Claiming all the visible structures on the map didn't seem to effect the wealth so it seems you already own all the ruins and have the wealth penalty for them.
Not sure if intended.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Sea Ice
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): ~900 (last update was actually ~840)
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10
Complete mod list: None
Only one more year of Sea Ice. I think it's fair to say at this point, the map is basically conquered: in the last 2 years and with giving no care to raid size, no cannons were lost despite drop pods, nobody died except one guy I wanted to die, and I've got 12k steel, 1k uranium, 1k plasteel, 6k raid points, and multiple orbital strike targeters to handle extreme edge cases. It took 15 years to get to this point, so I think it's fine that the player reaches a cozy end game at some point. Graphs and upper/lower fort below. I'll play this out some more just to see what happens when I start spamming gold statues and goofing around. In any case, summing thoughts:
-I've said all I have to say about the raid formula. Suffice to say there's ways I could even more severely game it that I haven't shown so that it would be easy to beat merciless if it's raid factor was 5 and not 2.2, but there's just no point in discussing it, as ultimately people who play "that kind of game" are just going to mod it if nothing is done about it. I just find it odd that so much care and attention is spent nerfing and buffing various things when metagaming raids trumps everything.
-LRMS is very unreliable when you have only one of them and very powerful when you have more than one. I noticed bulk trader ships cut their steel in half and this did not slow me down the slightest later on. I would never start using it outside of sea ice now that I've done like 50 lumps, but it's an effective way to have infinite metals on other maps eventually. Which is good. But maybe there should be some sort of failsafe so the player doesn't go over a year with no lumps.
-Sniper turrets are surprisingly costly when you use a lot of them, I think this is because they seem to use the full 40 uranium to reload any time. I ended up having to turn them off in the back whenever raids were weak, and mostly just turning them on to crush centipides. Feels fine, though, they allow for a killbox limited only by economy and not size.
-Animals and EMP IEDs are extremely effective during drop pod attacks. You can simply spam EMP IED traps everywhere in your base at a certain point in the late game and you can nullify about half of those attacks, and the ones you can't you can simply selectively release only a few sacrificial doggies to distract while keeping the rest alive. I don't think this needs to be changed, drop pods need some sort of counter.
-Stone is crazily abundant thanks to trade ships on maps where it shouldn't be. Once I could buy bulk traders out, I was getting like 5k stone per year. Needless to say, you can see how I'm finishing up by expanding crazily, building a better killtrap, and just completely surrounding my turrets in traps all in the span of one year.
-Bigger and more expansive walls just make things very easy, particularly rings of walls, to the point where only drop pods, ships, and overwhelming raids were a threat. Once you can mortar everything to death, that's the go to strategy. As mentioned earlier, this might make sea ice the easiest "post end-game" map due to the movement speed. There's no easy solution to this since removing area of effect attacks makes raid undoable after a certain point. The only "real" solution requires dev time, and it's adding "bigger bads" that count for 2k+ raid points rather than bigger clumps.
-I never realized just how much I hate infestations till I found a map that cannot ever spawn them ;)
-As many players better than I have echoed, it just makes no sense to put your pawns in any real danger since there's so many ways you don't need to, and high end power armor is the only real protection. Mostly, I was using charge lances to outrange while using decoys, emps, turrets and traps to make sure I was never really shot at. I guess it's essentially door peeking in drag only you can't retreat and lose everything if you screw up. Eventually I planned to gear up everyone in inspired power armor and just nuke everything to pieces with miniguns, but I've yet to get to that point.
[attachment deleted due to age]
cassandra/merci / noob biome/ COMMITTED/ year 5 / too many / vanilla
240x bug infestation. Whenever I pan over to the main battlefield, screen almost freezes. I feel like having spiders die on down would help performance somewhat. Though it would still be problematic - I could tell when insects had aggro'd by a 5-second long freeze.
(https://i.imgur.com/pOVnoOA.jpg)
Woke at dawn to do battle, slaughtered insects for 10 hr straight, many walls destroyed, friendlies called.
Spoils of war: (https://i.imgur.com/LKpTDq0.jpg)
And all this for what? Next infestation of 300 insects, which my computer will of course struggle with.
The march to 20k continues:
(https://i.imgur.com/0gy3SMh.png)
Get me off this planet.
Continuing my game, now on almost 500 days (Phoebe, base builder, temperate forest, no mods).
28 pawns and 6 dogs, farm animals + growing + hunting everything, but they eat like pigs. Winter is near its end, my stores are empty, occasional hare shows up. Pawns are on a brink of starvation. Manhunter pack appears, 13 arctic wolves, giving me just enough food to survive until the animals respawn and rice grows.
Had this event been changed to give tainted meat, this would have been the end of my colony. So please don't change it. ;D
I had another siege, I seriously don't know how to deal with those, so I again pulled all the pawns and sent them to direct combat. Damage was minor, but can a lack of tactics be a tactic?
Quote from: Broken Reality on August 08, 2018, 07:26:28 PM
No. Just no. The event is fine as it is. Differing risk levels based on animal and differing levels of rewards as well. As others have said it is the last event that has a decent reward sometimes for taking the risk. You don't have to fight manhunters, they can be totally ignored. but you can take a risk and get a reward. I don't want to fight mechanoids if I can at all help it the risk v reward of confronting them is really bad. Manhunter packs sometimes I want to take the risk other raids are risk with little reward for overcoming them and I only fight them because you are forced to.
I'm with this fellow.
I really enjoy the temptation with manhunter packs. Do I step out, try to fight them off? If I'm successful, I can net a lot of meat and leather. However, I'm exposing my colonists to teeth and horns, and even if you're reasonably well outfitted angry hordes of animals can do substantial damage if you're careless/overconfident/unlucky.
Quote from: anitram on August 09, 2018, 01:11:53 AM
I had another siege, I seriously don't know how to deal with those
If you have mortars researched and built, just drop a few shells on them when they arrive. This triggers them to storm your walls making it a normal raid.
You could also send your fastest pawn with a long range weapon to try and get the same result. Be sure to keep that pawn at max range though, for he will be swarmed.
Just some notes about quality of life thingies -
Allow force hauling stuff outside a colonist's restricted zone.
Also, would be nice to have toggleable setting if colonist is about to attack something while undrafted. It is kind of annoying to see your colonist walked 30+ tiles outside his restrict zone to attempt to solo beat 10 insects to death.
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 10:53:23 AM
I agree. I'm trying to make it more worthwhile to keep animals for things other than defense or hauling.
Long time player and long time lurker, but couldn't you make it just so that domesticated food sources get more meet? Standard hunting would get you some meat to keep you alive, but domesticated meat gives larger amounts of meet. Honestly it a good reflection on the real world, we bred cows for larger amount of meat. It would make sense if our domesticated animals would produce more meat.
Quote from: Tynan on August 08, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 10:53:23 AM
I agree. I'm trying to make it more worthwhile to keep animals for things other than defense or hauling.
I totally agree with the goal, once upon a time I did a ton of analysis and balancing to try to make the farming case viable (several alphas ago), but it's hard as hell to actually get all the balance points working. Especially given how straightforward hunting is, and how manhunter packs deliver mass meat/leather. It's hard for raising animals to compete with that without being ridiculous in other ways.
Hmm...thinking over it, wouldn't the best idea to have a sort of generation level system with farm animals, where animals that spawn from the wild start at level zero, and as animals breed, their kin will be a higher generation level, and as the higher an animal's generation level, the greater returns on animal products like meat, eggs, etc. (or maybe faster rates or higher nutrition value). Perhaps those with differing generation levels will have an increase from the lower level parent, or the average between the parents, to encourage to keep moving onto next generations instead of the same parents over and over. I believe this system would encourage farming to be a stable, controllable, high-yield, albeit slower method of obtaining meat. The yield returned from farming will eventually flatten out over the course of a few generations. Higher generation animals could also possibly sell better.
(i.e. the longer these animals have been farmed over generations, the better)
Or, you could use a different, although more complex, system where every animal has a "fatness" that deterimines the meat yield (and stuff like "lactation factor" for milk producers, or something similar to that), and animal multiple offspring will have varying "fatness" deviating from the average of the parents. The "fatness" is shown on the animal screen and the adults' "fatness" should be the important one for the player to focus on. The player will be encouraged to pick the animals with their preferred traits (like "fatness" which influences meat yield) and make them breed.
(i.e. selective breeding)
Disclaimer: I planned out this idea with turkeys in mind, so results will likely vary if implemented. Perhaps, the increase in yield will be adjusted for those that breed rapidly and those that breed slowly, so that everyone can progress appox. equal rates.
I think the issue is that for animals to be worth it they'd have to give unrealistic meat/leather/wool values (e.g. chickens giving twice the nutrition they eat as opposed to ~30%, which makes no sense). In the real world, manhunting giant space sloths don't deliver steak, so using real values gives odd results.
Quote from: NiftyAxolotl on August 08, 2018, 07:34:59 PM
Makes sense. But if domestic animals can't compete with maddened rhino meat, then... don't make them try? Give them reasons to exist that don't have easy substitutes. Hauling, combat, and Boomalopes' chemfuel work this way.
- There's a B18 mod that adds Chocolate Bunnies. Hilarious and unique. Doesn't matter if it's inefficient.
- Nuzzling feels like a random, incidental effect. Instead of a random colonist, pets should only nuzzle their master. That way, I'd feel like I have control over it and be motivated to get a pet for each colonist.
- Playing with a pet could be a recreation source.
- Milk and eggs are just substitutes for meat right now. If they (or chocolate or insect jelly) were required for lavish meals, they would have a distinct, specific purpose.
- If woollen furniture had a comfort bonus, then wool wouldn't just be a substitute for mid-tier leathers.
[..]
While I don't think Rimworld needs chocolate bunny's (I know it was just an example ^^), I really like your other points, especially the highlighted ones, so I'm seconding this. Right now eggs, milk, and insect jelly, while being more valuable, don't really mean much in gameplay terms. Adding them as a requirement for lavish meals, and maybe buffing lavish meals a bit more would make a lot of sense, and would give many players an incentive to keep animals. And of course there are other ways of making the animal products more special, like for instance your woolen furniture example.
Well geeze... HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUDE!
Edit: drop at edge is still a bit iffy for small maps:
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Roolo on August 09, 2018, 05:14:43 AM
While I don't think Rimworld needs chocolate bunny's (I know it was just an example ^^), I really like your other points, especially the highlighted ones, so I'm seconding this. Right now eggs, milk, and insect jelly, while being more valuable, don't really mean much in gameplay terms. Adding them as a requirement for lavish meals, and maybe buffing lavish meals a bit more would make a lot of sense, and would give many players an incentive to keep animals. And of course there are other ways of making the animal products more special, like for instance your woolen furniture example.
First: You, Sir, you are wrong! We need that bunny.
Secondish I agree that currently there is only a pseudo difference between leather and wool types. At least there are two types: good insulation and bad insulation. Wool chair e.g. could increase comfort temp whilst using it.
Thirdish: Still agree, Milkd and eggs are neither special nor economic enough to become intresting. I could imagine them for cholocate or lavish meals, as this could use not 2 but 3 different incgredients: meat,vegetable
and egg/milk
BONUS: I could imagine a reduced meat value for all animals killed by shooting, or vise versa a loot buff by 50-100% if an animal gets executed instead of hunted. This would make herding better. Could be combined with a stacking +10% per year tamed for meat value and milk/wool production.
This is slowly going further off topic, because those are all suggestions - but I wanna throw in there that herding animals is always at a loss of food, simply because it is a living organism that burns energy. Let me lie with this one and say that growing plants and eating them nets you more than ten times the nutrition than feeding it to an animal and eating the meat. Therefore animal products should be a luxury. So I agree with the suggestion to be rquired for lavish meals or wool being special.
Also, great food often is a result of good and varying ingredients and not just by using more of the same
I do appreciate the creative and energetic discussion, but this is indeed veering a bit off topic.
I'd be happy if someone wanted to start another thread to discuss meat economy, or ways to scale threat strength besides wealth/population.
I don't plan on changing something like this for next build, just because it's too late to be making big destabilizing changes.
Anyway, let's please keep this thread focused on the unstable build feedback.
Thanks to everyone for great feedback as well.
You know what'd be a neat event, that usually happens for lategame colonies(Or if you're lucky, early in), a Refugee chase quest, except there's a whole group of people being chased, usually 2 to 5 people. These people already has opinions and relations built with eachother, usually +30, +60 or even a lover, there can also be some people who are enemies with eachother who arrive.
Adds some spice with some fresh new characters, of course, the raid you recieve is a little stronger than a single Refugee quest.
my last run, roughly 2/3 of the team was former pirates so in the late game, all those pirate raids always had at least a few "relative" raiders, the colonists ended up with a bunch of mood debuff of "my xxx died", quite annoying & weird since 3-4 of them actually defected, why'd they actually care about the bunch that chased them away from the faction?
It was changed I think in B18, but it just occurred to me that since the AI core is now quest only, it would be nice if the random mental berserk breaks could be removed. That would open up an interesting choice if you happen to get the quest early (which I have several times in 1.0). You could choose to implant it in a colonist if you're still really far away from being able to build the ship.
Was interested to see the deep drilling changes people mentioned, only to find out that a half+ a day nets you 30 steel now or 10 uranium (and 7 plasteel. I wonder why not 1? it would be heaps more interesting to see the plasteel mountain slowly grow over years of play). A guy's full day of work hardly bringing over 10 uranium is ridiculous.
Also ai cores now really are quest only and those nasty psychic ships give you 1 advanced component, 100 steel and 30 plasteel instead of a core. Well done, those are now as unrewarding as other threats. I guess next step would really be making manhunters somehow not giving the meat.
I've been playing on Cassandra Rough, Boreal Forest Flat, Self-Imposed Commitment mode, and I have played ~6 hours in the past 2 days. No Mods.
I really like Incendiary IEDs, but I'm not fond of High-Explosive IEDs. Incendiary ones don't cause much damage to surrounding stone walls, so they can be placed in strategically created locations without lots of repairs needed later. It wasn't obvious at first that IEDs only explode when stepped on, as the description and displayed radius both seem to imply that they would react to nearby traffic that doesn't step directly on them. A description change may be in order.
I like the idea of applying a ~60% butchery product penalty to animals killed by guns or explosions (or maybe a cumulative penalty for each bullet-or-explosion-caused wound on the corpse). It would encourage farm animals, and it would give a benefit to melee draft hunting, which is already more dangerous. This wouldn't require farm animals to have unreasonably higher meat, as it would just represent meat and leather that is unusable due to the physical trauma. Maybe give animals (heck, humans too) another internal organ that is tied to eating%, the intestines, and if it is damaged, you get 80-100% less meat from the corpse, as it is tainted by gut-bacteria. You could also give injuries to that organ a far higher chance to gain an infection, for the same reason.
I recently had the most devious raid (devious from a storyteller perspective) I can recall. 13 pirates crashed directly into several bedrooms, and all but 2 of them were armed with Molotov Cocktails. That, combined with the carpeting meant that the raiders themselves were doomed, but I had a hell of a time fighting the fires started in the bedrooms and nearby stockpiles. I appreciate that there is now an alert in the top left when room heat starts damaging pawns. It alerted me to have others hold open some doors to the (now roofless) sleeping quarters, and the outside.
I finally found a reason to use my resurrector serum, and I'm enjoying the interesting twists it causes. My pawn (who was my best constructor) went from dead from torso damage, to being blind in both eyes. After the long, but reasonable period of resurrection sickness, and once I had given her a bionic eye, I thought I was in the clear. It wasn't until a while later I discovered the new Brain HeDiff Resurrection Psychosis (early) at 11% and growing. I'm glad I noticed it quickly enough that I can take steps to train up her replacement. I love it, and it makes for a great story!
I'm not sure if I think this should be changed, but there is currently no way I can see to tell if a Water-mill generator will be penalized for being too close to another one. The efficiency-nerd in me wishes for more info so I can optimize the space, but the disbelief-suspender in me likes that there is no way to know without resource cost.
I like incorporating marsh/mud/ice/shallow water into my defenses/killbox, but when I play on other biomes, I wish there was a constructable floor that had BAD path cost. Not unreasonably bad, but maybe costing ~6 steel to build (barbed wire?) floor which has the same movement rate as, say, mud.
I have found the deep drill changes to be reasonable, although obviously slower than straight mining. I DO wish the device toggled itself off instead of self-forbidding when it runs out of resources though.
Quote from: Madman666 on August 09, 2018, 10:33:11 AM
Was interested to see the deep drilling changes people mentioned, only to find out that a half+ a day nets you 30 steel now or 10 uranium (and 7 plasteel. I wonder why not 1? it would be heaps more interesting to see the plasteel mountain slowly grow over years of play). A guy's full day of work hardly bringing over 10 uranium is ridiculous.
Also ai cores now really are quest only and those nasty psychic ships give you 1 advanced component, 100 steel and 30 plasteel instead of a core. Well done, those are now as unrewarding as other threats. I guess next step would really be making manhunters somehow not giving the meat.
A nitpick, but psychic ships didn't drop cores in B18 either.
I'm wondering if there should be some function/memory to keep room assignments to various colonists when they're out in a caravan. Currently all rooms gets unoccupied the moment they leave, and when they come back they just pick whatever gets handed out to them when they look for a bed.
It's a little nitpicky, but I find it annoying to try and remember who had what room, and continuously emptying the barracks every time a caravan returns to the base.
Quote from: Norseman on August 09, 2018, 03:12:48 PM
I'm wondering if there should be some function/memory to keep room assignments to various colonists when they're out in a caravan. Currently all rooms gets unoccupied the moment they leave, and when they come back they just pick whatever gets handed out to them when they look for a bed.
It's a little nitpicky, but I find it annoying to try and remember who had what room, and continuously emptying the barracks every time a caravan returns to the base.
Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?
Quote from: Tass237 on August 09, 2018, 03:20:01 PM
Quote from: Norseman on August 09, 2018, 03:12:48 PM
I'm wondering if there should be some function/memory to keep room assignments to various colonists when they're out in a caravan. Currently all rooms gets unoccupied the moment they leave, and when they come back they just pick whatever gets handed out to them when they look for a bed.
It's a little nitpicky, but I find it annoying to try and remember who had what room, and continuously emptying the barracks every time a caravan returns to the base.
Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?
I have a colony with four couples, two colonists with the jealous trait, one with greedy and another one with the ascetic. I don't want to micromanage where they sleep whenever one of them arrive from a caravan trip.
Quote from: Tass237 on August 09, 2018, 03:20:01 PM
Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?
Because Greedy, Jelly, and Ascetic colonists do in fact exist.
Quote from: zizard on August 09, 2018, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: Tass237 on August 09, 2018, 03:20:01 PM
Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?
Because Greedy, Jelly, and Ascetic colonists do in fact exist.
And if you got a barracks, it usually gives debuffs you rather the more unstable of your colonists doesn't get. So there's a few good reasons why it would be useful to keep the rooms assigned when they are out.
I think it'd be nice if besides extreme balance, which I think is probably almost done, there was a bit of work on convenience.
For instance, there is just no way to clean a big fort in vanilla (see screenshot), which means making the home zone only the inside which leads to all sorts of annoyances. Maybe a rework of home zone duties or miscellaneous robots mod integration after multianalyzer research could have a look into.
In any case I'm sure home zone wasn't intended to look like the second screenshot, but this is just what you do in vanilla.
[attachment deleted due to age]
It seems that there is no way to know the affect of working at the long-range mineral scanner. The item description says that it will find lumps every 30 days on average, but it is not clear how having colonists work at the scanner affects discovery.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest/mountainous
Commitment mode: No, I just don't trust you enough yet, we'll get there
Current colony age (days): 605
Hours played in the last 2 days: 12
Complete mod list: Hugs Lib, Allow Tool, Animal Tab, Numbers
Long time listener, first time caller.
Please note I didn't update past 1.0.1982 as I was starting the ship reactor, anything that has changed since then you can disregard, also I haven't played since last year so not sure what was added in B18 vs the unstable build.
This will mainly be in regards to the mid/late game, the early game I can't remember much besides it seemed well balanced and fairly challenging.
I'll start with melee because I absolutely love where its at right now, previously I'd only use it to clean up those fleeing, now its a front line attack. I never thought I would have a mechanoid raid drop right on top and send all my melee guys to stand next to the pods, sure you lose the occansional limb, but its great for preventing infernos from getting off more than one shot, sometimes none. It was a bit strong several builds ago when one mechanoid was killed from 2 hits and it's artificial brain destroyed but I'm fairly sure they are tankier now, as they should be.
Plant work seems to take a lot longer now which is fine, the main problem seems to be with growing zones getting out of sync for harvesting over time resulting in colonists running all over the map to harvest a few plants here and a few plants there forcing regular manual harvesting to get zone back in sync. It would be great if there was an option to harvest an entire zone once all plants are ready to harvest, which would just mean not mixing soil types and if part of it gets burnt or destroyed you could just turn the option off. Ths funny thing is blight used to help with getting zones back into sync and whereas I'm fine with it as it is, it would be a good idea to change the hotkey Y, in my happy trigger finger clicking I accidently double clicked my growing zone and deleted them all resulting in a rare rage quit.
I tried this run to self sustain in regards to meat and milk from tamed animals, but it requires a lot of animals and a decent part of the map covered in haygrass, not necessarily saying it needs a buff, maybe to milk, but I do welcome any manhunter pack and will always take the risk even with bears, elephants and rhinos. Every animal on the map I'll hunt just to sustain fine meals. The mad animal event should only be early game, mid its just annoying, mad animals however can still be a challenge, I had 3 thrumbos wander in plus 2 in my taming pen go mad, my best handler lost an arm, not best anymore.
The inspirations seem like a good idea, but could be more focussed on colonists of a certain skill level rather than someone below level 5 in construction, crafting and art, perhaps it could be based more on what tasks they do the most or have a minimum skill level or passion for. I do like being able to save gold and other limited resources for inspirations mostly resulting in masterwork or legendary. That being said it woul be great to have a small chance, say 5% for level 20 to produce legendary without inspiration, maybe 1-2% for level 19 and 0% for anything below, it makes the higher levels more meaningful especially since they take a lot ot get to and maintain, plus the warm fuzzy feeling from the occassional legendary work notification. The same goes for other skills, I gave my best melee guy 2 trainers to go from level 14 to 20 resulting in an increase from 17.17 to 17.5 dps, I understand the principle behind diminishing returns but this should be slightly more rewarding. Melee and shooting are by far the hardest to get to level 20, this is the first game since A8 or so where I've gotten a colonist to level 20 shooting thanks to fast learner, burning passion and the ship launch raid madness, so more of a reward for higher levels would be great.
Back to legendary work, the notification states that word will spread far and wide, but I'm not sure this has any meaning, more raiders trying to steal it for example a few days after, more traders ground and orbital, maybe it does have an impact, but I haven't noticed. For me the more traders would be beautiful as i tend to cover the map with apparel and art.
Now to raids, sieges are a large threat early on, but become way to easy even in mid game, maybe a double, triple or even quadruple siege would make it much more of a threat. I found that raids in general late game were fairly easy, but my fun points hit 1000 after about 90 days so maybe that was it, but even ship parts weren't a challenge with only 20 centipedes and 40 or so scythers/lancers. It could also be I've played through too many versions and my game was bugged, but it seemed like I'd hit a cap, so I figured I might as well start up the ship.
The 15 days for the reactor to start were absolutely awesome, raids most days sometimes 2 at the same time, colonists barely having time to heal, rotting corpses all over the place and more mental breaks than the past 5 years. I had Doc a brawler throw a tantrum as I've been forcing hime to use a charge lance all game, he went straight to the chemfuel room resulting in 12k lost chemfuel and 10 chemfuel reactors, somehow he lived. A mechanoid raid for the first time dropped on top of my mortars destroying 10 and 200+ shells, a huge cost. One of my best shooters and level 20 artists went wildman, another level 20 constructer went beserk and was instantly killed by auto-attack. A total of 4 colonists died, luckily I has 5 resurrector serums from a trade request so in the end everyone escaped except one that had a daze next to the ship. This is a great change to the ship launch from someone who hasn'r built one since A12, hell I'll probably start the reactor much earlier next time just for the raids.
Caravaning still has a way to go, most of the time its just not worth it, early game I went for a masterwork minigun, later for 5 resurrectors in exchange for only 26 spears (I would've given 100 spears suckers). The rewards need to be masterwork and legendary items and rare items even if the goods requested go up significantly I would still go for them. The only other time I caravanned was when there were 4 outposts and 2 trade requests close together, so that was fairly worthwhile, but the outposts do need to scale higher in terms of difficulty. It would be nice to be able to drop pod a trade request, I tried to send the 26 spears, but they would only take it as a gift unless I sent another Spears, my warden named Spears who then had to walk back. Reassigning beds is also annoying, not sure if theres an easy fix for this.
Drugs at the moment seem too risky for the reward, I'd normally just use some go juice for the melee guys during raids, but during the reactor startup I had 14 melee guys take just 1 go juice every 2 days, over the 15 days 7 got addicted, 2 started developing tolerance, this seems a bit much given the length of time withdrawl takes and the extreme impairment as a result. Chemical fascination colonists are not worth it for the most part, I has 2 get addicted, go through withdrawl, then shortly after get addicted again, they mysteriously got hacked to pieces. The only one I tolerated was Sacriel, not just for his tip regarding stools next to stoves and workbenches as a colonist he was an industrious level 20 crafter with a burning passion, luckily after getting over his withdrawl after being recruited he didn't get addicted again.
Plasteel seems fairly limited, that being said I have pumped out power armour, charge rifles/lances and longswords, so it could even be nerfed a bit, uranium I always have 8000+ even with building all autodoors and most exterior walls with it, along with 10 uranium turrets in the early days of the reactor startup, Chemfuel seems abundant.
Quickly regarding mods, Numbers is probably the best mod across any game of all time, the wealth on information, being able to sort by any stat in the game, would be great to see it integrated, but regardless will always use it as long as Mehni keeps working on it that is. Allow tool the biggest feature is haul urgently, so often food, other crops and gear purchased from traders is left to deteriorating outside, a priority hauls would be a nice addition. Animal tab allows filtering by animals so you can assign particular types to various handlers, assign to bonded, unassign all, these features would be a great addition especially for those who go a mental amount of animals, also a toggle follow in the UI when you click on and animal would be much easier than going into the menu. Speaking of toggles, being able to toggle notifications would be a nice addition, especially when it comes to breakdowns, early game a cooler breaking down can mean game over, but later its just several autodoors a day.
I haven't posted graphs because my scummy overpriced ISP(anyone in the US, UK or AU will agree) has me speed limited at the moment, but fun points capped at 1000 early on, population was at 49 until friendly chat was removed after which quickly grew to 65, wealth passed 3M, mood hovered between 60 and 70.
This has gotten fairly long and I've probably forgotten a few things, but I just wanted to say as a developer your engagement with the community has been unprecedented and is to be admired especially given the variable nature and value of feedback in general, so I hope this helps and I look forward to the full release, because who doesn't love a full release. Sorry I haven't contributed more since A5 however many years ago that was but I've been happy with the progression.
Thanks for a great game.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, large hills, year round growing
Commitment mode: Nope (save file corruption ruins this)
Current colony age (days): 128
Hours played in the last 2 days: 7 ish (less than i have been feeling unmotivated to test)
Complete mod list: Hugs Lib, Rim Fridge, EDB prepare carefully (just to save colonist groups incase I hate the map and don't want to spend time finding new colonists I like), additional lights, numbers (the info I want and need and I can choose what info it shows)
Started as crashlanded to try out deep drilling. 10 gold, 7 plasteel feels really low and honestly not worth the effort. Apart from trading or long range scanners how are we to get enough plasteel and gold to make enough bionics to cope with all the limb and organ loss / scars. I already need 3 eyes, 2 legs and a spine and I have yet to research fabrication and advanced fab let alone bionics.
Issues/possible bugs. I decided to breed a tortoise army (no real reason I just wanted one). I tamed all the tortoises that showed up and now I have 7. After a time some eggs get laid and I had forgotten to remove fertilised eggs from my freezer stockpile and thus they were ruined. Determined to not have this happen again I set a stockpile for the eggs in the animal barn and removed them from the freezer. Next set of eggs get laid and the 2 piles of eggs are now combined in my stockpile and the 3 new eggs are now counted as ruined by temperature. The old ruined eggs spread their ruination to the new totally fine eggs so now I had 6 ruined by temperature eggs.
This issue may also explain how sometimes food poisoning seems endless even if your kitchen area is spotless. All it takes is a raid or food poisoning basically anything to make the kitchen dirty and your cook makes some meals before you clean it. Now any stack of food those high food poison chance meals get added to are now tainted. So once you clean the kitchen and cook some more all you do is add good meals to tainted piles of meals. The only option is to stop cooking till all prepared meals are used up and then start from scratch otherwise you will just get continuous bouts of food poisoning.
On another thing about food poisoning is that raw food does not have a food poisoning chance of 2% from what i have seen it is 2% per item of food so if your colonist eats 16 berries for a meal it is something like a 27% chance they will get food poisoning. This would be fine for meat, a tad ridiculous for things like rice and corn and berries are supposed to be the safe starter food if you don't have a cook ( and especially so for tribal as they don't have nutrient paste dispensers). This also makes naked brutality much harder as you have to have a cook or you will spend most of your time vomiting. At least food poisoning no longer incapacitates colonists when it hits major.
It would be really nice if this either did not happen or if we had some way to remove or check if things are tainted by bad food. Eggs should not get ruined because a bad egg gets stacked with them.
I decided to try out a new wind turbine defense. Essentially you surround the turbine with doors and walls, 14 doors and 8 walls (4 walls if you skip the corners). This means that raiders have to destroy the doors to damage the turbine and your stray shots (or them using the turbines for cover) do not damage the turbines. (doors do not obstruct wind turbines). Now this may well end up getting nerfed however it does require rather a large amount of materials (390 stone for 14 doors and 8 walls) per turbine. Overall probably not worth the effort but something i wanted to try.
Gifting rate seems to be reduced or at least that's how it seemed as the first visitor didn't decide to leave me a gift but the first trader did and nothing else since. I got 6 blue meds which seems far more reasonable than 11 glitterworld like I have got in the past. Still not a fan of feeling patronised by random traders and visitors to my colony as I've never felt like I was doing poorly certainly not enough to warrant random gifts, being gifted an amount equivalent to what I just paid a trader for advanced components. Hopefully gifting has been reduced and it isn't just random that this colony didn't get the same level of gifting as the past two I made.
Overall so far this colony not sure now I am going to get the gold and plasteel I need. I have no artist so my only options are clothing or drugs. Feels bad that I can't mine or drill for even part of the amount I'd need (7 a time from a tiny 2 tile deep drill pocket is far too low, there are probably 3 or 4 other potential plasteel/gold veins i can see, deep drilling feel like a trap and a waste of colonist time). Chemfuel is another issue with the reduced things you can use to refine it and removal from deep drilling, on harsher biomes I'm not sure how you are supposed to get it, either you grow food for boomalopes or you use that food to refine in to chemfuel, on harsh biomes you really don't have the luxury of spare food for either of those options.
I really like how the faction system is in 0.19/1.0 however you get penalised for being friendly with all 4 factions, if you make friends with everyone you get punished by getting an increased % of mechanoid raids. Considering that outlander raids are generally harder than tribal it is beneficial to anger the friendly tribe and make friends with the hostile outlander. Tribes also have the disadvantage of their traders being worse than the outlander ones, there really is very little reason to befriend tribes (they even take longer to respond to calls for help in my experience). Tribal raids may have more people but they don't have armour and their weapons are terrible compared to outlander raids who come with flak or power armour and doomsday rockets and other advanced weaponry.
Edit:- it would be nice if the unforbid tool when used to unforbid everything didn't unforbid rotten corpses like it used to in Allow Tool. Having your haulers spend ages haling every skelton on the map is kinda frustrating. Would also love the haul urgently function as well.
[attachment deleted due to age]
As our attempts to find out what the patch actually changed - the effects of treatment quality against malaria seems to have been reduced pretty significantly.
QuoteI haven't posted graphs because my scummy overpriced ISP(anyone in the US, UK or AU will agree) has me speed limited at the moment, but fun points capped at 1000 early on, population was at 49 until friendly chat was removed after which quickly grew to 65, wealth passed 3M, mood hovered between 60 and 70.
Fun points now capped at 2000. It makes quite a bit of difference if you hit the 'lategame' early (at day 90! that is pretty impressive. It took me 160 and that's with a friendly biome)
It does strike me as amusing that corpse disposal is one of THE primary challenges in lategame merciless. Tribal sappers are particularly obnoxious regarding this, being walking mood suicide bombs - unless you have a gigantic swarm of haulers there's no way you are clearing those before they rot, and the blood, all the blood...my poor bionic leg cleaner can't keep up! :(
(https://i.imgur.com/2qyor6U.png)
-18 from observing various corpses in various states of decay, -15 hideous environment, aint no joke.
What's up with people talking about animals and meat? Did something about that? Haven't played recently so I'm worried about this meat talk, can somebody give me a quick resume or tell what's the matter? Thanks.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, mountainous
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age (days): 3+ years
Hours played in the last 2 days: none since 0.19 update (update broke save)
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer
First try makin' a timelapse video of the screenshots from progress renderer:
https://youtu.be/n3uUdhYkIDY
Year 5 cas/merci/commit/noob biome
Something like 22v160 sapper tribal raid this time, 18k fun points.
Was running 1 fps during the clash, crashed when I hit them with 20+ kill triple rocket launcher. And game was already throwing errors at 10+ kill mortar shots.
So I guess this is the end, as playing incredibly laggy raids has become increasingly unenjoyable. My play was strictly suboptimal (if I was sane and playing optimally, I would not play wealth farmville and opt to make all my pawns 10k+ value bionic/archotech machines, and I would have tactically done some wealth reduction thingies, but I was interested in testing the very limits of my defensive setups).
If there's anything I regret, its that my computer reached the end of its sanity before seeing a 15k+ mech drop pod. This was something I was definitely curious to evaluate performance against...maybe will try some dev mode tests later.
Overall, I would say that my defensive setups performed above expectation, with zero hostile sharp wounds sustained in all of year 2-4, but my play against apocalypse level 15k+ point sapper raids needs a bit of tightening, as those ended up significantly messier. Even then, throughout these 5 years, I never got downed during a raid (there was the infamous muffalo punching adventure of year 2 to see how much my raid points would drop, which led to 4 downs, but that doesn't really count does it?), which I guess is ok.
However, Jet remains traumatized from the scyther drop of year 2 destroying his masterwork bed (never replaced).
My tentative feedback at the 10-20k point raid is consider alternate unit types with higher point values.
Some personal statistics for this run -
Times shot at by a charge lance over 5 years: 1 (1 more than is acceptable..UNCLEAN)
Record centipedes killed in a minute: 15+ (maybe I will post video this super-doombox, but it is classified for now :D )
Manhunter elephants killed by solo pawn in single encounter: 20+
Number of mental breaks directly due to post-sapper raid corpse littering: 6 (out of maybe ~10 total) - this is the true weapon of the tribal, the ability to inflict 20 mood points worth of damage with nothing more but their dead bodies !!! A hypothetical raid type of 100% nude tribals that are all sappers that just try to punch things in your base would be frightening indeed. I would take a psychic ship over that.
Crematoria built: 0 (100% purely organic means of corpse disposal)
Turrets built: 0
PS. @greep walling better than me. Triple walling net neutral vs. sappers at the end of the day.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Arid Shrubland/Flat
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age (days): 466
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~15
Complete mod list: Numbers
My experience with manhunter packs is that indeed they're a source of meat that's a bit too convenient, once I got 3 manhunter packs of megasloths and rhinos in sort succession, around 20ish animals per event, maybe with a raid in between. Had to change my bills to butcher only when the colony is low on meat, since I had no way of storing the products of butchering them all, and began dishing out lavish meals, selling all the meat I could to traders and converting it into chemfuel.
Today I was down to 2 megasloth corpses in the freezer and then 27 rhinos showed up. That should be enough meat for keep my 20 pawns feed with fine meals for 40 days, so I sold my chickens and I'm going to get rid of the female dromedaries since as it stands I have no need of other sources of animal protein. I would suggest perhaps reducing the frequency of the event in late game.
And in the subject of farm animals, chickens seem to consume a lot more of food than their stats suggest, like 20% more.
I like to call reinforcements from allied factions.
Problem is, their drop pods can cause severe damage to my colony.
Destroying roof is understandable, but damaging expensive items like AI persona core, or explosive items like Biofuel is unacceptable for me.
I think they should be able to find safe landing spots in my colony, because they are friendlies, not enemies.
Since there are now fewer leather types in 1.0, I think it's a waste to have some of them be so close in color. For example it's hard for me to distinguish elephant leather and rhinoceros leather armchairs without clicking them. Lightleather and plainleather are very close too.
I suggest making the colors more distinct, mainly for aesthetic purposes. Lightleather could be a little more redish/brownish and rhino leather could be darker gray for example.
Randy, Merciless, Flat temperate river, 233 days in. ~5 hours recently.
I like sending out caravans, but discovered recently that after approximately (I wasn't keeping track) a quadrum the nearby settlements haven't restocked (not even 1 silver.) This feels a bit awkward, as I really don't want to invest in the time and risk of sending out a caravan if I can't actually trade.
It'd be nice if there was some signal to the player when nearby colonies had restocked (or make it a gradual process.)
Quote from: Tass237 on August 09, 2018, 03:20:01 PM
Counterpoint, but unless you have Greedy, Jealous, or Ascetic colonists to worry about, why do the room assignments matter?
Lovers. It's pointless micromanagement having to reassign them to a double bed when one or both return.
It seems almost trivial to fix (just don't automatically unassign the bed in the first place. If the player urgent needed the bed for something, it's very easy to manually reassign it.)
Quote from: xion1088 on August 09, 2018, 11:39:49 PM
What's up with people talking about animals and meat? Did something about that? Haven't played recently so I'm worried about this meat talk, can somebody give me a quick resume or tell what's the matter? Thanks.
Check out the thread in this forum "getting a handle on the meat" ;)
I think I found a bug in the most recent version 0.19.?
A gay pawn (Toni) successfully managed to romance a non-gay pawn (Guts). I found this to be funny (obviously I believe this could happen in RL ;-), so I took a look at the messages.
The messages are correct from the perspective of Toni
"Toni tried to romance Guys by..."
But from the perspective of Guts they look weird:
"Toni tried to romance Toni by..."
Attaching a screenshot
[attachment deleted due to age]
Big kudos for the wildlife tab. This saved my ass when all my crops froze right before a raider torched my refrigerator.
It seems that unsmoothed stone floors don't generate dirt or trash from animals/colonists. I had a room in my colony that only had this floor type and I never had to clean it and the room had a cleanliness rating of 0. Made an excellent kitchen but seemed like it is unintended. Haven't tested it on multiple rooms yet so maybe I was just getting lucky.
Also on an unrelated note it seems that animals ai pathing is bugged when near walls. I shot some rhinos near my perimeter wall and they just kept running to north and south side of my wall taking an extremely long run, always going back to around where I shot them from, this happened until I finally was able to down them.
Randy, Merciless, Flat temperate river, 240 days in. ~10 hours recently.
A colonist was fatally shot in the heart while out raiding an outpost. Back home, his three bonded dogs instantly went beserk/manhunter (even though they're not even on the same map.)
This means I now have to try to play out two fights simultaneously, on completely different maps... While I enjoy the combat in this game, trying to keep track of two fights at the same time isn't really fun, to me. (Split screen might make it at least plausible... But it's probably better just to prevent it occurring in the first place.)
Is anyone having a lot of corrupted saves? This is the third save I have corrupted because of shenanigans. Makes Commitment Mode kind of moot.
Quote from: cloudchild on August 10, 2018, 11:22:51 AM
It seems that unsmoothed stone floors don't generate dirt or trash from animals/colonists. I had a room in my colony that only had this floor type and I never had to clean it and the room had a cleanliness rating of 0. Made an excellent kitchen but seemed like it is unintended. Haven't tested it on multiple rooms yet so maybe I was just getting lucky.
I think you were just getting lucky. Trash/dirt definitely comes up on smoothed stone floors for me.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Savage
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest/Mountainous
Commitment mode: Nope
Current colony age (days): 374
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~10
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer.
IEDs are fun.
(https://i.imgur.com/WCZBkak.jpg)
I'm still waiting for a sapper raid to see how they react to my defenses, but no luck so far.
(https://i.imgur.com/C9iMPce.jpg)
I'm afraid they might be too easily accessible though, perhaps increasing a tiny bit the chemfuel cost of the shells would be fair? The chemfuel has not been a limiting factor for me since it's easy to get and not used in many things. And speaking of chemfuel, I was thinking it would be cool if maybe the biofuel refinery, the crematorium, and the infinite chemreactor produced heat, like a torch lamp.
Quote from: ticket on August 10, 2018, 12:23:18 PM
Quote from: cloudchild on August 10, 2018, 11:22:51 AM
It seems that unsmoothed stone floors don't generate dirt or trash from animals/colonists. I had a room in my colony that only had this floor type and I never had to clean it and the room had a cleanliness rating of 0. Made an excellent kitchen but seemed like it is unintended. Haven't tested it on multiple rooms yet so maybe I was just getting lucky.
I think you were just getting lucky. Trash/dirt definitely comes up on smoothed stone floors for me.
Smooth stone floors accumulate dirt. I believe
un-smoothed stone floors do not, which is what the original post was about. I have used this as a way to keep a clean kitchen during the early game when food poisoning was tuned really high, but it feels cheaty.
The 'Caravan ambushed (manhunters)' event does not pause the game when the 'Pause on urgent letter' option is on.
Quote from: Razzoriel on August 10, 2018, 12:19:10 PM
Is anyone having a lot of corrupted saves? This is the third save I have corrupted because of shenanigans. Makes Commitment Mode kind of moot.
Not so far in 1.0 but save corruption is why I don't use commitment mode. Are you using any mods? Or running a colony over several patches? Both could be the cause of it.
Year 5 cas/merci/commit/noob biome
After a day of thinking, I realized that my primary problem with the crashes was occuring from letting tribals fire their weapons. Now normally we are taught in rimworld school that letting enemies fire (at least at our pawns) is unacceptable, so it came to mind that we had a "souvenirs pile" that might possibly be useful for executing this raid from the start.
(https://i.imgur.com/Hq8SYuz.png)
Result was deliciously un-laggy:
(https://i.imgur.com/cFJzCCC.jpg)
And now instead of buying stuff like bionics that will increase my raid strength, I can wealth control by investing in weapons of mass destruction inc. Everyone wins.
Doomsday takes care of the corpses too. Its great, would highly recommend. Tribal overflow parking was getting a bit too full anyways:
(https://i.imgur.com/ICZG4Qi.jpg)
Cassy/Savage/Cold bog/Flat/342
Just got 120 man pirate trash raid. And im only at 530k wealth with 15 pawns. :-\ Am i really supposed to beat this in a fair fight? :-\
[attachment deleted due to age]
Cassandra merciless naked brutality
First year (https://i.imgur.com/ge7QyQY.jpg)
That seems a bit ridiculous op.
Then second year
(https://i.imgur.com/3SLDDlT.jpg)
Impossible one. Imho the rewards should be toned down a bit, but the requirements should be realistic..
Hey Tynan, just noticed this while scrolling through your core XML trying to figure out why Humans below the age of 14 don't have the correct draw size, bodyGraphicData is only useable in PawnKindDefs. This doesn't impact much in the case of races that have a single PawnKindDef, but is incredibly tedious for races that have multiple PawnKindDefs (for example, Humans). I've noticed that this is incredibly problematic as Humans don't have a dynamic draw size due to this, so a Human at the age of 0 will be the same DrawSize as an adult.
I know this is going to impact a tonne of modders, but it will be incredibly useful for modders in the future. Are you able to change it so the drawSize is definable in LifeStageAges instead of LifeStages? Pwetty pwease? <3
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on August 01, 2018, 10:50:07 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 31, 2018, 03:34:20 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 29, 2018, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 28, 2018, 12:15:26 PM
Randy rough tribal
Temperate 50/60 small hills
Permadeath
First summer, I restarted when I got errors on my last save
5 to 10 hours played
Hugs lib, skylights, memorable aurora, Infestation disabled, mineral identify
*snip*
I am almost ready to launch the ship so an update before I forget it all.
I have added the mineral identify mod now that I have the underground radar. It is more of a convenience mod since it allows you to mouse over the minerals to find what they are.
I have lost two colonists since the last update leaving me at 16. I lost my best tailor in a lancer raid when they got caught outside nearby. The second I lost in one of the many fights my abrasive has started, beaten to death.
I allotted 18 spaces on the ship for colonists, so I can take more. I have only been getting chased refugees, and I won't take them anymore. For example, the last one was a 33 year old rancher. They were being chased by about 51 ish pirates! By comparison the pirate raid last season was about 30 to 40. It just isn't worth it to take on that risk for one tribal.
My miner is an animal handler. I have to space out big dig jobs because I have the pets set to follow, and they will do so until they starve to death. I won't disable follow, because mining is what my tailor was doing when they were caught outside. The other issue is the pets won't eat when they get back. If they need rest they will go to bed. Then when they wake up they go into a wander before finally looking for food. All this tends to result in miscarriage.
The tailor was married. Cantreque is finally stable, but as his negative moods ended I had a poison ship that required his medical help. He ran out of positive moods leaving him with some small negative ones. His break went catatonic. He woke up a few days later and went into a murderous rage a third of the way to the dining room. Then berserk when I attempted arrest.
I appreciate the reduced component cost of the ship. The plasteel is a struggle on my map. I have enough steel to rebuild my whole base with it, but the only plasteel is underground. I just have the one miner left. I have stuck with flack and I have only done essential bionic replacement because of it. I tend to skip leg armor, so mostly bionic legs.
I like the animal balance. My main handler got brain damage from grenades thrown by drop pod raiders. Now that the pack is larger, I have to keep my handlers busy. I enabled the less talented ones to train doggo's.
Manhunter packs turn into hunting parties for my predator pets. I rescue useful ones, like a recent pack of wargs. If they don't join fast enough, my pets eat them while they are downed.
Quick note - released guests walk really slow. I checked their movement speed in information tab and they are moving like 3x slower than they should be
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on August 11, 2018, 11:50:59 AM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on August 01, 2018, 10:50:07 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 31, 2018, 03:34:20 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 29, 2018, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on July 28, 2018, 12:15:26 PM
Randy rough tribal
Temperate 50/60 small hills
Permadeath
First summer, I restarted when I got errors on my last save
5 to 10 hours played
Hugs lib, skylights, memorable aurora, Infestation disabled, mineral identify
*snip*
The reactor sequence was probably the most intense Rimworld experience I have had. There was 1 to 2 raids about every day. Started off with Pirates and ended with Mechanoids. In the end, my colonists were so busy trying to recover that there was no time to repair, cook, or clean. the result was constant major breaks of every type. I also got Gut worms on day 10. Every one of my dead colonist were dug up on corpse obsession, murderous rage, and three people gave up and left my colony (one came back, but it was a brain damaged one). My chemical interests were all addicted to stuff the pirates dropped by the time the reactor powered up thanks to binges. The majority of my colony animals were dead, and my defenses were shattered. People were regularly breaking in the middle of combat. I had to build a zone in the middle of nowhere to keep all the weapons and bodies, and my colonists couldn't even manage to break down any of the scythers. By the last day, the last raid was just three lancers because of my wealth drop. The last of my doggo's took them out. The capable pawns took the crippled and catatonic ones to the ship.
One thing I began noticing mid to late game is that weapons do a lot more damage to wall in 1.0. After a while, you replace large sections after every fight. I also had issues with the corpse obessions. The colonists wouldn't haul them back to their assigned crypt, just to my body zone. It was set to critical.
I made it out with 13 counting a new recruit during the coutdown, 4 dead, and 2 left the colony.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Razzoriel on August 10, 2018, 12:19:10 PM
Is anyone having a lot of corrupted saves? This is the third save I have corrupted because of shenanigans. Makes Commitment Mode kind of moot.
I'm very interested if anyone can post any information about a corrupted save bug. How to reproduce it, logs, saves, etc. Ideally in the bugs forum. These kinds of bugs suck.
But don't forget corrupted savegames with mod's don't count.
It is mosttimes the mod vault.
In this version I often get Mechanoid drops inside my base and by the time I can kill them they've already destroyed a few things. The auto rebuild feature is great for this, but I make a very extensive use of shelves and it doesn't restore the storage settings!
Oh, I just had a terrible realization about settings. If they ever destroy the machining or tailoring table I'd ragequit for a week.
Quote from: tarator on August 12, 2018, 10:29:15 AM
In this version I often get Mechanoid drops inside my base and by the time I can kill them they've already destroyed a few things. The auto rebuild feature is great for this, but I make a very extensive use of shelves and it doesn't restore the storage settings!
Also, when they break the doors and walls to get out of the bedrooms they inevitably crash into, auto rebuild doesn't trigger for that.
Same goes for raiders who give up attacking and run in literally the stupidest direction to attack a door INTO MY BASE to "get away."
Quote from: Canute on August 12, 2018, 09:53:20 AM
But don't forget corrupted savegames with mod's don't count.
It is mosttimes the mod vault.
This. I haven't had a single corrupted save while playing vanilla. The vast majority of "bug reports" I read (usually on other websites) are modded games.
Any ETA for the next Unstable Build update? I don't want to play yet since map ruins seem to be counting towards colony wealth since day 0, an example was my Naked Brutality start, as soon as my guy landed I checked the wealth graph and it was already at 26K, before the game was moved back to B1.9 I played a Naked Brutality game and the first days I was barely having 200 - 400 wealth with a few berries and some wood.
Quote from: tarator on August 12, 2018, 10:29:15 AM
In this version I often get Mechanoid drops inside my base and by the time I can kill them they've already destroyed a few things. The auto rebuild feature is great for this, but I make a very extensive use of shelves and it doesn't restore the storage settings!
Oh, I just had a terrible realization about settings. If they ever destroy the machining or tailoring table I'd ragequit for a week.
I had it happen. They dropped into my workshop. There are some mods I am looking at, but I try to take it as an opportunity to clear out old jobs from the queue.
am i just retarded?
in test version, every time i start new game with, crashland, rich explore they never land, tried 10-20 games now, both 64bit and other one.
i can do naked brutality? but why is that the only one working (havent tried lost tribe)
Im a few days into my next run, and I noticed that one of my colonists has "serious pain" from a scratch scar on their left arm. I shrugged and put it to the back of my head as something I would have to try and fix later when I had the resources to do so. The -10 mood is going to be a pain but I could handle it.
I also decided to double check the health of the other colonists to see if there was anything else Id have to keep an eye on. Thats when I noticed another colonist with a scar on their right leg. I noticed some odd inconsistencies:
Scratch Scar, Left Arm:
- hp: 24/ 30
- scratch scar: 6
- efficiency: 78%
- pain: 19%
- Colonist Traits:
Bite Scar, Right Leg:
- hp: 24/ 30
- bite scar: 6
- efficiency: 78%
- pain: 1%
- Colonist Traits:
Both scars are the same amount of damage and the same amount of efficiency loss, but impart a very different amount of pain. Im not complaining about the pain difference, because I like having to deal with those kinds of differences, but I feel there is a lack of obvious feedback on
why there is a pain difference.
Does a scratch somehow impart more pain than a bite? and if so why? I would imagine it would be the opposite...
or is something not mentioned in the traits affecting it?
or is the amount of pain imparted just completely random? if so, shouldn't that randomness be reflected in the damage score of the scar?
I can see new players being confused by this and developing the belief that the health display is unreliable...
Quote from: xion1088 on August 12, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Any ETA for the next Unstable Build update? I don't want to play yet since map ruins seem to be counting towards colony wealth since day 0, an example was my Naked Brutality start, as soon as my guy landed I checked the wealth graph and it was already at 26K, before the game was moved back to B1.9 I played a Naked Brutality game and the first days I was barely having 200 - 400 wealth with a few berries and some wood.
How did that start affect your game? Was it too hard or did they take that into account and scale down difficulty a bit to account for those early game floors?
That's why it happens by the way. Floors count toward wealth now and there's no "taking ownership" of a floor, like you can for walls and doors. So, you own the floors the moment you drop onto the map.
There's no guarantee that this will be "fixed" as there's no guarantee they consider it broken.
Its the ability for Guests to self tend their wounds intended ? Makes kinda hard tending them when they have infections and what not, they start tending the momment tending is available not to mention they to it very poorly.
If it stays that way and all the ruins count from the start, sea ice would have an arguable advantage with lower starting wealth, since there are no ruins on sea ice.
I read in a different topic in the bugs section that it's counting ruins floors, not sure about walls.
I did some testing, started a Naked Brutality start, before my pawn even landed wealth was already at 26K, with god mode on I destroyed a wall in the Ancient Danger and deleted all the items there, 1 Masterpiece Charge Lance, 2 Glitterworld Medicine, 20 Luciferium, 1 Insanity Lance, wealth didn't drop in fact it went up a little bit, don't really know what's causing this and honestly it's preventing me from playing right now because I feel like I will get bigger/harder raids sooner than before and obviously I won't be well prepared for it.
(https://i.imgur.com/CSA8HIO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/W0oVFjE.png)
I know this should go to the Bugs section but somebody already reported it and I wanted to post it here to get more visibility, I know I'm going out of the main topic of this post and probably breaking a rule and I'm sorry for doing it.
One more edit, sorry. Disabled all my mods and started the same seed and this time wealth was at 3K and it was only counting buildings, not items so one of my mods might be messing with wealth, gotta find out which one and report it.
I was unaware that wild animals would consider drugs as a potential meal source.
This rabbit downed some multi day old deteriorating booze, and got knocked out for her trouble.
;D
EDIT:
If you hunt and kill a drunk rabbit will you get beer infused meat, to make beer infused meals out of? ;D
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: xion1088 on August 12, 2018, 05:06:15 PM
I did some testing, started a Naked Brutality start, before my pawn even landed wealth was already at 26K, with god mode on I destroyed a wall in the Ancient Danger and deleted all the items there, 1 Masterpiece Charge Lance, 2 Glitterworld Medicine, 20 Luciferium, 1 Insanity Lance, wealth didn't drop in fact it went up a little bit, don't really know what's causing this and honestly it's preventing me from playing right now because I feel like I will get bigger/harder raids sooner than before and obviously I won't be well prepared for it.
This makes sense, as wealth only counts what you can see. Your initial wealth did not count that stuff in the ancient danger. Afterward, your wealth counted that floor.
But you could play anyway, and see if maybe the game is balanced around this new wealth mechanic.
Oh wait, what I meant was that the initial wealth of 26K didn't drop after I opened the Ancient Danger and deleted the items, actually the building wealth went up a bit after the when the night came, item wealth was the same before and after opening the Ancient Danger, I'm actually doing some more testing with my mods trying to find out what mod is causing this.
The extra starting wealth is equivalent to -6 or -12 penalty to mood, which received no adjustments. This is pretty severe. It's terrible for immersion that a priority early game task is to run around the entire map removing floors.
Regarding the AD wealth, fogged floors don't count, so when you reveal the AD contents you get an increase from those floors.
Ok I found what was causing the high Total Wealth problem as soon as the game started, it was a mod called "The Rock Trade" that was making the Item Wealth to be 22191 so be careful with this mod, I already reported it to its author but the Building Wealth problem still there, as you can see on those images the Building Wealth started at 3913, I guess opening the Ancient Danger and then, with God Mode, building the wall back made Building Wealth rise to 4744.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, flat, river (year round growing)
Commitment mode: No
Colony age: 150 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10+? (oh gawd)
No mods.
Me: newbie.
Part I: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg425195#msg425195
Day 150. The story continues....
Chatty Patty and Miney got married. Warlock, the red fox, was the best man. My caravan for a trade event wasn't quite back but arrived mid ceremony. Every gets high to celebrate. Love these sorts of events, I like the reprieve from the struggle (although a disaster in the middle of the marriage could be a very rare exciting event) would like to see more details and social interactions besides marriages and parties. Game nights? Anything where some pawn personality can shine. Even better some "positive breaks" where the pawns blow off some steam without causing too much trouble. For example, dancing and singing, stripping and going for a midnight swim or polar bear dip. :D
My single colonist with a shooting skill above 9, is 80 years old with a bad back... and he got drunk and went out hunting a herd of muffalo, who promptly trampled him. My bad for selecting the muffalo to hunt, but I was starting to get worried about the size of the herd and saw 3 off by themselves... but by the time Gramps got there they had joined with the other 6. I got lucky with traps again and managed to rescue Grampa "Gunz" and he only lost a finger, lucky son of a... gun.
Some time later mechanoids (no centipedes) drop pod outside and attack while trade caravan is arriving. The two groups meet outside my base and the robots are so fast my colonists are still getting dressed when they tear into the caravan. The 90 year old trade leader who is the slowest of all and left far in the back is the first to be cut to pieces. Miraculously he doesn't die from the wounds and after the caravan mainly takes care of the machines I rescue him and one more person who turns out has a shattered spine and starts to eat all my fine meals. I feel bad since they took the brunt of the attack, but I can't get rid of him. No one needs a transplant, and my colonists seem to enjoy spending time watching TV with Cougar.
Another lull and then we have our first pirate raid, around 12 attackers and the raid note says they have "tactics"? Things go pretty well, even though the pirates avoid my bridge of doom and have 2 sniper rifles. No serious injuries but the problems with my defences become very clear. Need to build some other bridges that I can sally out of with melee types against the snipers and other long range attackers.
As I re-architect our defenses, I carry out some more trade missions that require reams of tailoring (no one is good at crafting), but my herd of alpacas and muffalos help, although I have to caravan out for supplemental cotton twice. The farm is looking pretty decent, as I've picked up breeding pairs on all the trade missions and we now have 3 boomalos, 2 pigs, 2 cows, 2 chickens and around 6 each of muffalo and alpacas. We also have Meg, a self-tamed Megasloth who does a great continental drift impression and dumps 300 fur once a year. Breeding is just starting to kick into high gear when I realize I've misprioritized cash drug crops, hay and a huge crop of devilstrand instead of food. I had been sitting on 150 simple meals for so long that no one would buy but I started using them for short run caravans and now we're out and there isn't a crop to harvest for awhile. Some frantic berry gathering and hunting and we survive and start getting food stockpiled back up to around 30... for 12 colonists plus Cougar the Mooch, that isn't much at all.
And that's when the toxic fallout hits.
I saw mention of this when I was reading some of the wiki info and thought, "Boy, that sounds horrible, I really hope that never happens to me, but looks like its extremely rare. I couldn't handle seeing everyone just starve or get sick and die." So I go back and re-read it... we need to be under roofs or permanent effects. OK.
A bulk trader enters just before the fallout hits. So while I'm frantically roofing everything I sell him all the baby animals and all the oldest animals for all his fruit and meat (obviously Meg stays, despite being mostly useless, she is practically our mascot given the nature of our team). Give him all my extra clothes too. It's a terrible trade (for him) and he just sits there in the fallout while his animals and people get sick. I take pity, and need a safe way to haul all my goods back into base so I construct a temporary roof over his head. He leaves happy, hopefully without longterm effects. (Does fallout affect caravans?) Would be nicer if I could just invite him inside to a designated zone. I try to hunt all the wild animals but they seem to rot immediately on death. :(
Fortunately my crops are easy to roof over, and I throw up a bunch of sunlamps and then gasp at the power usage. I turn off everything else, no more lights in bedrooms, no benches on, minimal temperature control, turn on the backup generator and we're still at a massive deficit. I have a large stockpile of steel and 50 or so components to burn through and I can make more components at the Fab bench at night so we starting building more power infrastructure but of course one of the noob constructors botches the job, and then my master builder decides the resources laying right there are not good enough to use. Then the mental breaks start- people are still in a decent mood, so I'm not sure what's triggering them. A food binge (oh great) and a psychite binge (which fortunately I had already sold off most of my stock). It becomes painfully obvious that I do not have enough food for my animals (especially as I'm waiting for the last devilstrand crop to harvest - I've waited so long, must... finish...), but I don't want to go full Noah's Ark if this is going to only last a few days. I start (a micro-intensive) releasing of the hungry animals in the morning and before bed and some special zoning for the chickens. I also have to micro switching things on and off during the day and night. It is going to be a slog if this lasts a year.
I get lucky and get a visitor who takes Cougar the Mooch off my hands and I release the prisoner that I was mainly using for social practice. Not sure I'll be able to keep the animals (sigh). The wild animals are starting to die and I discover that boom-imals are starting wildfires all over. I rush out to stomp the closest, risking the fallout but the pressure on the grazing areas just got a lot worse. Is the remaining grass going to die?
Then 3 colonists get malaria, including 2 of my best doctors. I have a third though, thankfully. We're a formerly happy team of healers, herders and pacifists. We only eat simple meals and pemmican now and people are annoyed.
Then the infestation hits. Sweet jezus. Thankfully it's just outside my base and not in the prisoners quarters. A valiant, mostly confused effort around multiple nearby doors leaves 5 people lightly injured and one bleeding heavily. Some fingers and toes go missing and we lost a turret, but I couldn't be happier. The insect meat might make enough kibble for the animals to survive?
Gunna be away on vacation, but I'm really enjoying the experience so far and looking forward to playing (too much). Even the thing I really thought would be awful and no fun (fallout) and the string of bad breaks (even just on Phoebe and medium) has been the right sort of difficulty for my current abilities and playstyle.
Gripes and suggestions summary:
- What are mechanoids and why do they want to kill me?
- Would be nice if self-tamed animals had less wildness.
- Explanations for why mental breaks happen? Just random chance? If not I'd like to be able to reduce the chance somehow?
- Visitors pay for herbal meds but no one else does?
- Recreation area for therapy where people with high social skills can help reduce breaks/penalties from depression (etc), bad moods on others? A couch furniture object? That you can prioritize like medical bed?
- Managing animals: some more info (togglable or even on tooltip) about each animals state would be great (health, hunger)
- In my case it was sending animals in and out to graze during toxic fallout
- Chicken eggs are forbidden? Do I have to manual unforbid them all (to move them to the hen house storage area?)
- Learning / tool tips for toxic fallout (and other game changing effects)
- What causes sickness (unroofed vs inside)?
- Do plants grow?
- Indoor growing tips
- Greenhouse tips
- Hunted animals rot immediately on death (sometimes) during fallout?
- Area for traders to rest/gather at.
- Feedback on why a colonist can't prioritize an activity. Got frustrated a number of times trying to make people prioritize something but no right click menu popup. A popup with an explanation why it is unavailable would be nice. For some unavailble actions this seems to work (no materials).
- Prioritized actions smartly override zoning: i.e. stay in the zone as best possible (travel to action), but if action requires leaving then do so and return to safe zone after complete.
- Although it may drastically change the nature of the game, having time based scheduling for tasks might be handy and seems like a reasonable way to manage people's schedules (in the real world). During fallout I wanted people to do unpowered tasks during the day and then in the evening after the sunlamps are off, turn on benches and get to work. I.E. instead of just generic "work" times, be able to set an activity type ("Research from 22-02").
[attachment deleted due to age]
After a few raids using heavy turrets, I feel like their propensity for friendly fire is way too high. I've lost one colonist (after he was hit in the heart), 4 huskies, a rhino, a muffulo and a camel to my auto cannons alone and the cleaning lady got her arm blown off by my uranium slug turret during a megaspider raid.
I love watching the turrets smack mechs into oblivion, but more often than not, they do more damage to my own colony :(
Edit: Just lost my main shooter/planter after the autoturret blasted his neck off :|
Raiders are supposed to leave if you succeded at peace talks during the raid.
Most of them left, but some proceded to walk into some structures and destroy them before leaving.
They leave as soon as they destroy what they want, but they should leave without destroying anything...
Report.
I turned on the ship. ~590k wealth, 22 colonists.
Day 2 - first raid, 200+ tribal sappers, 4 groups. There was also 270 insect infest close during this reactor activation. Game running on <1 fps. Fights completely unplayable even if I'm not watching the spider vs tribals smackdown.
Basically only thing I could do to realistically fight these raids without computer destruction is mass doomsdays.
I am not sure whether it is intention that going over the old 10k raid point cap (think I'm at about 18k right now?) is intentionally punished with game unplayability. But surely there must be a better way than just dumping 400+ simultaneous units on field (even at 200 v 22 there were pretty big playability problems if there was an actual firefight, it came down to AoEing them down with rockets / doom before they could even shoot)
(https://i.imgur.com/nc1bY8k.jpg)
Quote from: qwertyasdf on August 12, 2018, 07:27:06 PM
After a few raids using heavy turrets, I feel like their propensity for friendly fire is way too high. I've lost one colonist (after he was hit in the heart), 4 huskies, a rhino, a muffulo and a camel to my auto cannons alone and the cleaning lady got her arm blown off by my uranium slug turret during a megaspider raid.
I love watching the turrets smack mechs into oblivion, but more often than not, they do more damage to my own colony :(
I have similar experiences. The new turrets are awesome but they're really uncomfortable to use. The range limit suggests to me that they should not be used in the front, however, if I try to place them in the back, then friendly fire is bound to happen. The uranium slug can literally one-shot a pawn with armor. Having your colonist die because the turret targeted a scyther that reached your frontlines or because you simply forgot to command it to hold fire is not compelling. I see myself engaging less with my colonists because I'm scared that a turret is going to get some weird angle and kill them instead of the enemies, I try to counter it by micromanaging the turrets to hold fire when it doesn't seem safe. I'll even admit that I save-scummed the first couple of times it happened because I didn't expect it to be such a problem, I kind of just assumed that the turrets were more advanced (at least in contrast with the mini-turrets description) and accurate, and had less chance of friendly fire because of it.
I see myself in the future making more turrets and giving my colonists only charge lances (which I love btw, I like how they are a direct upgrade to the bolt-action rifle, balanced but not overly specialized) and sniper rifles.
So I think I'm tested out of the new version. In total I spent 450 hours on the game, on B19 I spent about 40-60.
Feels like game took massive step forward but I see big problems with:
1) research pace + unfortunate RNG can create many dead real human hours which feel wasted. Maybe make scaling research pace a first class citizen in the difficulty choice screen, just because I like being destroyed by raiders doesn't mean I want to wait a year for electricity.
2) RNG battles dont feel very satisfying and I'm not really looking forward to the next challenge where my defensive options are very limited.
3) lack of access and interaction with the world - muffalos require high training, caravaning requires high preparation, drop pods are far off in research tree and in all the time I played this game I never left original map once.
These reasons as well as an incomplete tribal experience & end game experience really discourage me from continuing colonies past the first year as well as continuing to play the game after I ran each scenario once-twice.
Maybe create new scenario dedicated to caravaning, or maybe adjust tribal to always start with 2 muffalos and build this variant of the game from there.
Having said that, and as a gaming product manager, I really believe you've created an very special piece of software and hope you continue to dedicate yourself to this amazing creation and give us all a clear roadmap of future DLCs so we can show you our willingness to continue to pay to expand this world we've all fallen in love with.
Quote from: username2 on August 13, 2018, 05:30:05 AM
2) RNG battles dont feel very satisfying and I'm not really looking forward to the next challenge where my defensive options are very limited.
3) lack of access and interaction with the world - muffalos require high training, caravaning requires high preparation, drop pods are far off in research tree and in all the time I played this game I never left original map once.
please explain! i dont even train obedience for muffs! just get them tamed and the caravan is ready to go!
Trading is a HUGE bonus. Sell chemfuel from boomaloops and drugs.
Battles are just hard till you looted some decent weapons. Just build a propper defensive wall. Even ships are easy if you dont run in front of it without building some stuff for defence
Cass, Rough, Boreal, Flat, No Mods, Self-Imposed Commitment mode, ~6 hours in past 2 days.
My pawn with Resurrection Psychosis is now dead. (She got up to 57% before the end) I greatly enjoyed the experience of trying to keep her alive and in the colony for as long as possible.
Early on in her psychosis, I replaced her bionic limbs with prosthetic arms, and a peg leg, and took out her bionic eye (which I had only added because the resurrector mech serum left her blind in both eyes), because she can haul just fine while blind. This made her not really a threat too.
After a few smaller breaks, She decided to Run Wild. I marked her to tame, and kept an eye on her. The first few taming attempts failed, despite ~50% chance. Then she decided to hunt one of my colonists for food. This surprised me, as wild men (and women) are not marked as predator on the wildlife panel. Nevertheless, she wasn't a real threat, so we shot her to downed, rescued her, and patched her back up.
Once recovered enough to walk, she got out of bed, let herself out through several of my doors, then continued to be a wild person.
A few more failed taming attempts later (still all at ~50% chance, terrible RNG), she again decided to hunt a colonist. Again we downed her, rescued her, patched her up, and watched her let herself back outside. (I think the game conflates the wild animal state with the rescued friendly state to allow this)
Around this time a Heat Wave set in, and I had a Raid which injured my Handling pawn, so there were no attempts to tame her for a bit. After a while I noticed her downed with serious heat stroke, so I rescued her, and when she recovered, she decided to rejoin me rather than continue to be wild. I don't blame her, I too would self-tame for access to Air Conditioning.
Next, she decided to go Catatonic for a couple days, no big deal.
After that, she decided to Run Wild again, but this time was successfully tamed on the second try.
She had a tantrum, and decided to destroy a good plainleather armchair, so when she had beaten it about half down, I uninstalled it, hoping she would let it go. Instead, it said that since she couldn't reach the armchair (slightly wrong, as the uninstalled chair was at her feet, but not a big deal), she decided to beat up my pile of 77 Luciferium (I recently got 38 from a trade request), and I wasn't about to let that happen, so I had someone arrest her, and she submitted quietly, then I canceled the arrest before she got to the prison cell and everything was normal.
She decided to go slaughter some of my animals, so I again arrested her, to which she submitted quietly, and I again canceled the arrest before they got her to the prison cell, so everything went back to normal.
She decided to murder someone who was otherwise minding their own business watching TV, so I again arrested her, but this time she fought back and went Berserk. Because she was in my Dining/Rec room, suddenly several people were shooting her. She took a few hits before I drafted everyone with a gun and moved them out of the room, hoping the melee people would only down her with bruises. Unfortunately, I door-cheesed myself, with one of the drafted pawns turning around and shooting her in the brain through a closing door. Thus ended the life of Daza for the second, and final, time.
Quote from: erdrik on August 12, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
Im a few days into my next run, and I noticed that one of my colonists has "serious pain" from a scratch scar on their left arm. I shrugged and put it to the back of my head as something I would have to try and fix later when I had the resources to do so. The -10 mood is going to be a pain but I could handle it.
I also decided to double check the health of the other colonists to see if there was anything else Id have to keep an eye on. Thats when I noticed another colonist with a scar on their right leg. I noticed some odd inconsistencies:
Scratch Scar, Left Arm:
- hp: 24/ 30
- scratch scar: 6
- efficiency: 78%
- pain: 19%
- Colonist Traits:
Bite Scar, Right Leg:
- hp: 24/ 30
- bite scar: 6
- efficiency: 78%
- pain: 1%
- Colonist Traits:
Both scars are the same amount of damage and the same amount of efficiency loss, but impart a very different amount of pain. Im not complaining about the pain difference, because I like having to deal with those kinds of differences, but I feel there is a lack of obvious feedback on why there is a pain difference.
Does a scratch somehow impart more pain than a bite? and if so why? I would imagine it would be the opposite...
or is something not mentioned in the traits affecting it?
or is the amount of pain imparted just completely random? if so, shouldn't that randomness be reflected in the damage score of the scar?
I can see new players being confused by this and developing the belief that the health display is unreliable...
Looks like the inconsistency is in the Tough trait: it's not mentioned in the tooltip, but maybe it imparts an ability to withstand pain better (makes sense IMO), which has somehow been reversed?
Pretty sure the pain is loosely tied to old injury severity but largely random.
Quote from: zizard on August 13, 2018, 05:33:12 PM
Pretty sure the pain is loosely tied to old injury severity but largely random.
The problem with that is that both of those old wounds are the same severity.
At least if damage is any indicator...
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest/Mountainous
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 628
Hours played in the last 2 days: Too many
Complete mod list: Conduit Deconstruct
Graphs: https://imgur.com/a/ORl52PW
Well, the ship is built! I've been caravanning left right and crooked to try to collect enough supplies to build not only the ship but enough defenses to ward off what I'm scared will be the attack to end all colonies. So I thought I'd just lay down a few thoughts here before going for blast off.
--
The long range mineral scanner starting working frequently for me after my last post. It seemed to go from almost never doing anything to giving me big bursts of finds all within a very short period of time. The scanner is a really smart way to have late game researches not go idle, and to help players with late game resource shortages. I did have some problems specifically with steel though. It's so heavy I had to send a literally army of muffalo with the miners (I don't remember exactly how many, but over 12). The rest of the minerals were not a problem, just the weight of the steel made the mechanic seems broken.
--
There is still a lot that's wonky about caravanning. I actually think that the travel speed might be a little too fast. Although I haven't tried to traverse the planet to the AI ship yet, 55 or so days doesn't seem realistic for a (more or less) pole to pole walk. I also wonder what's behind the decisions to let the colonists stay in different kinds of generated maps for a different numbers of days. Like, an item stash (I think it's an item stash) lets you stay for 15 days and while you're there you don't get raids of any kind - clearly exploitable. But a destroyed enemy base lets you stay for literally only 24 hours - not even enough time to heal up and explore the whole base sometimes. Why different lengths? What's the logic behind these decisions? Is it possible to let a pure caravanning game settle in any generated map as their home to solve this problem? That's maybe the simplest solution I can think of. Also once you're kicked out of a defeated enemy base you can just select every item possible to form an immobile caravan and then settle in the same tile and everything will be collected nicely in the middle of the map. and, ridiculously, the enemy base will have disappeared.
I've been watching a great playthrough which I will link at the bottom which I think really acts as a deep dive into caravanning (and where I saw this enemy base disappearing act in episode 14). The whole playthrough really highlights a lot of what I think is clear and unclear to the player about the interface and mechanics, what works and what doesn't, what's exploitable and shouldn't be and what's undoable but maybe should be.
--
I like to setup my tailoring bench to include equipped and automatically remake everything that everyone is wearing once it starts to fall below 60% (I do the same with flak vests right now and as I mentioned in my last post, would love to be able to have similar control over assigning and making bills that included equipped food and weapons). However, when anyone who's clothed (hopefully eveyone who leaves is clothes) leaves in a caravan, the bills no longer count those equipped items and a colonist starts to make more at the bench. If it's just a couple peeps going to collect some gold you can see why you wouldn't want this to happen. BUT, if you were sending a year long caravan out into the world, maybe you would want to start remaking those clothes. Can you create an Include Caravans check in the bills options alongsidethe Include Equipped to allow us to avoid this?
--
In all the games I've played of 0.19, I've never had a failed surgery. I was part of the consensus that the surgery failures were briefly ridiculous a few alphas ago when they were first introduced (or changed I don't remember), but this has seemed a little too easy. I don't even really have to think about a surgery because I'm so confident it will go off without a hitch, and that kind of defeats a lot of the purpose of glitterworld medicine for me.
--
I still think Food Poisoning is too rampant. In a big colony with an exclusive cleaning pawn I still find it impossible to keep the kitchen area clean enough, even with sterile tiles, to prevent constant food poisoning. It is also really debilitating to colonist speed. I bring that up to suggest that you could either lower the likelihood of it happening, or decrease the severity of the symptoms to make it less impactful to the colonists.
--
Wish me luck in our battle to get to the stars!
The Nomadic Tribe Playthrough:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8tznYxl698&list=PLkr09O8z61-rg6EEPu9_TgTMwCIY3LTg7
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on August 08, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
Quote from: Polder on August 08, 2018, 10:53:23 AM
I agree. I'm trying to make it more worthwhile to keep animals for things other than defense or hauling.
Tynan,
Surely there is a plausible and logical system you can use - slaughter and butcher and animal and you get the maximum amount of meat and skin possible, shoot a pig full of holes with an assault rifle (or burn it with a charge rifle) and there is going to be a lot less useable stuff.
Simply, hunting or killing packs reduces the yield when butchered.
(or farmed animals yield more, whatever balances easiest)
I totally agree with the goal, once upon a time I did a ton of analysis and balancing to try to make the farming case viable (several alphas ago), but it's hard as hell to actually get all the balance points working. Especially given how straightforward hunting is, and how manhunter packs deliver mass meat/leather. It's hard for raising animals to compete with that without being ridiculous in other ways.
Running into some issues with character bio and effects in-game. My colonist has:
Quick Sleeper
Psychopath
Tough
However I'm noticing negative debuffs such as
tainted tribal wear x2
witnessed a dead body
I have been wearing tainted gear and passing corpses for a good hour of my initial start and they weren't effecting me at the time. After reloading the game I noticed it due to break risk warnings, unsure if it's related.
I'm far into a ship playthrough (206 days), with all research done and most of the ship built. Since minerals are hard to come by at this stage, I've been sending out mining caravans via drop-pod to take precious ore sites and drop-podding them back to the colony with the ore.
This is where my major gripe comes in:
I've done at least 4 of them by now with no issue, 5th one has a manhunter ambush with 12+ foxes vs 2 people. I'm thinking "fuck, they're probably gonna get downed." I start getting extra pods built to send in reinforcements with my melee dudes to rescue these two.
The caravan people go down, the scenario map is force-closed and I'm told that the caravan was lost.
This actually kinda pissed me off, because I just lost both my best builder and miner to something that could of been salvageable, but the game decided that scenario was done and therefore they're lost forever. It's not like they died from a mid-caravan ambush, they were downed in a static spot where I could of easily sent in reinforcements if it wasn't for the fact the game auto-closed it.
These scenario maps should not auto-close at all unless all colony pawns are dead or taken off-map. If I wasn't running commitment mode for this, I probably would of reverted to a previous save. If you want to push for commitment mode as the 'default' mode, these kinds of situations need looked at so the player doesn't feel like they were just cheated out of an interesting situation.
Turned on the ship on day 600. Exactly. Without planning it or even knowing until 2 days later. At about 326k wealth basically split 50/50 items and buildings, items slightly more. Cassandra Rough in a temperate forest on a river with year-round growing. It - and the 3 starting colonists - were chosen at random at game start. 13 colonists, each with a berth in the ship, were ready to go.
Mods installed: While You're Up, Deep Ore Identifier, Auto Seller, Hand Me That Brick Lite, Prosthetic Icons, No Forced Slowdown, Squad UI Tweaks, and QualitySurgeon (that I'm not sure is working)
15 days
Mechanoids dropped, 7 of them in various places outside the base and 1 inside the base. Turrets and traps took care of them no problem.
14 days
Quiet. We spent the bulk of the time rebuilding all the trap.
13 days
Mechanoids again. 5 lancers and 4 centipedes. Took them out but lost some serious defensive infrastructure doing it. Lots of burns but nobody seriously hurt.
Then a Lynx started hunting a colonist! Oh no! It ran into a trap and died.
12 days
12 Scythers wandered onto the map right before we rebuilt the last two traps. 10 of them died going trough those traps and the other 2 went down to gunfire the moment they stepped in the base.
Then we got a psychic soothe which is nice, but not all that necessary as pretty much everybody's happy already.
11 days
One guy lost one toe, so we gave him a bionic leg. The only injuries are now to torsos and you can't replace those.
I upped everybody's construction to 1 to get the traps rebuilt.
With 1 trap to go (we ran out of marble so I switched to Limestone) we got a late night raid, 3 groups of 7, 7 and 8 raiders from an outlander union. They were "preparing" by standing around so we mortared all 3 groups.
Before they even started attacking, though, more guys in drop pods right on top of us. In the most heavily turreted area of the base. I took them out handily
With 4 in the hospital and 1 tending wounds, the 3 outside factions started their advance. The first set made it through the first third of our traps - the wood ones - before fleeing. The other two groups gave up together halfway through my steel traps - the last third. We killed the ones banging on the outside door before they could get away.
10 Days
We got a call from someone's grandmother. She was over a day away so we had to ignore her. No way I'm thinning my defense this late in the game. I hate to say it but she would still be there when we took off, so no bad feelings for the colonist.
Kimmy, a 15-year-old medic was being chased. We told her to shove it.
Someone got a permanent scar in an eye. So he got a free bionic eye.
A doe self tamed. We're eating doe for dinner tonight.
Ran out of limestone, so now we've got granite traps. If those run out I guess we'll do wood. Or maybe plasteel, we don't need any more.
9.7 days, the psychic soothe ended.
9.5 days, a dry thunderstorm started and an exotic goods trader entered orbit. Before I could call them, 15 Scythers dropped on the far corner of my map to the entrance to the base. Two of them fell to my IED/roof traps. The rest started falling to our normal traps when we called the trader. Nothing good, so we bought components out of habit.
9.2 days. Almost immediately after the last Scyther fell (with a single steel trap left) we got a siege. Well we know how to deal with sieges: Mortars.
They attacked, and one of our guys went down but wasn't dead before they started running. We finished them off for good measure.
8.7 days, we got a caravan request. 3 charge lances from us for 31 advanced components. I'd have taken that normally but what are we going to do with 31 advanced components?
We're basically out of stone, but have limestone chunks lying around. I queue up limestone traps. Hopefully they'll get built. We've got 3000 wood so if all else fails I'll use that.
8 days, a mad alpaca takes out two precious wood traps. The jerk.
I turn on some deep drillers for marble. Hopefully between that and the limestone I'll keep my stone traps up.
7.6 days, a granite meteor falls. I don't bother with it.
7.4 days, 25 tribespeople want to use sappers on it. Bring it. They bring it, right to where all the sappers have gone every time. Where I have IEDs just where they tend to go after they've all bunched up. BOOM. It only gets 4 of them, and the rest get in the base. I and my turrets mop them up.
6.2 days, more sappers. Good thing I repaired that wall and reinstalled those IEDs. But they go to a different wall... MY SHIP. ALL HANDS ON DECK. Two of our melee guys went down but right as their sapper broke the wall, they ran. WHEW. One of our guys died, but we have two resurrection serums. I used it without thought or delay.
6 days. But delay was forced on me. 3 more groups, also sappers, came in from all sides. This could be bad. We take out the one closest to the ship (and our dead colonist) and then slap the serum on him. The other two go to the happy zone and get blown to bits, but they keep digging so we head there too. The sapper gets through, we shoot him, and the rest run. WHEW. We leave the dying and concentrate on our own people. The dead of 5 raids back still litter the landscape.
4.6 days, all these raiders left a chemical fiend's paradise lying around. He could have picked a worse drug than go juice though. So I say go for it, dude.
4.5 days, mechanoids drop on top of us. Only 4 though and one's separated from the rest. We lose 2 turrets but nothing else. I notice we're out of non-insect meat, so I move the insect lavish meals to the top of the list and we'll finish the last 4 days on them an simple meals of corn and rice.
4.2 days, the guy binging has OD'd. I consider putting him in cryosleep. I don't.
3.4 days, more sappers. At least they gave us a day to fix all the holes in the walls, and our people. Their Molotov guy throws one at our granite/plasteel wall, then steps on an IED. Before his friends arrive. Jerk. The rest don't go to the boom zone and break a nearby wall. Jerks. We kills them. The stragglers run and don't do any real damage.
2.3 days. Scratched up eye? No siree, our last bionic eye goes in you.
2 days, everybody's fully healed, and we're actually cleaning the place up a bit. Then 19 tribal sappers show up. Great. They go for the ship, but we learned from last time and set up an IED roof trap. It kills 4 of them. We eviscerate the rest before they flee. We set up the roof trap and patch the wall.
1.2 days, thunderstorm right in the middle of the base. No actual damage though.
13 hours, another raid. Our last? 28 tribals and not a sapper in sight. Before they can kill themselves on our traps, Doctor Shrew (Yes that's the name he came with) steps on one of them. Great job, man. The tribals don't make it halfway down the trap corridor.
0 HOUR. While heading toward the ship, one guy throws a tantrum. SERIOUSLY? I give him one chance, and attempt arrest. He does not resist, but instead of stopping he just goes into a wander. I decide to leave him. As the final colonist gets in a chamber, he snaps out of it so I let him on too. A heat wave starts, and we lift off.
[attachment deleted due to age]
How do you setup those IED roof traps? With regular roofs? Didnt know that worked...
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 15, 2018, 09:05:56 AM
Turned on the ship on day 600. Exactly. Without planning it or even knowing until 2 days later. At about 326k wealth basically split 50/50 items and buildings, items slightly more. Cassandra Rough in a temperate forest on a river with year-round growing. It - and the 3 starting colonists - were chosen at random at game start. 13 colonists, each with a berth in the ship, were ready to go.
Mods installed: While You're Up, Deep Ore Identifier, Auto Seller, Hand Me That Brick Lite, Prosthetic Icons, No Forced Slowdown, Squad UI Tweaks, and QualitySurgeon (that I'm not sure is working)
15 days
Mechanoids dropped, 7 of them in various places outside the base and 1 inside the base. Turrets and traps took care of them no problem.
14 days
Quiet. We spent the bulk of the time rebuilding all the trap.
13 days
Mechanoids again. 5 lancers and 4 centipedes. Took them out but lost some serious defensive infrastructure doing it. Lots of burns but nobody seriously hurt.
Then a Lynx started hunting a colonist! Oh no! It ran into a trap and died.
12 days
12 Scythers wandered onto the map right before we rebuilt the last two traps. 10 of them died going trough those traps and the other 2 went down to gunfire the moment they stepped in the base.
Then we got a psychic soothe which is nice, but not all that necessary as pretty much everybody's happy already.
11 days
One guy lost one toe, so we gave him a bionic leg. The only injuries are now to torsos and you can't replace those.
I upped everybody's construction to 1 to get the traps rebuilt.
With 1 trap to go (we ran out of marble so I switched to Limestone) we got a late night raid, 3 groups of 7, 7 and 8 raiders from an outlander union. They were "preparing" by standing around so we mortared all 3 groups.
Before they even started attacking, though, more guys in drop pods right on top of us. In the most heavily turreted area of the base. I took them out handily
With 4 in the hospital and 1 tending wounds, the 3 outside factions started their advance. The first set made it through the first third of our traps - the wood ones - before fleeing. The other two groups gave up together halfway through my steel traps - the last third. We killed the ones banging on the outside door before they could get away.
10 Days
We got a call from someone's grandmother. She was over a day away so we had to ignore her. No way I'm thinning my defense this late in the game. I hate to say it but she would still be there when we took off, so no bad feelings for the colonist.
Kimmy, a 15-year-old medic was being chased. We told her to shove it.
Someone got a permanent scar in an eye. So he got a free bionic eye.
A doe self tamed. We're eating doe for dinner tonight.
Ran out of limestone, so now we've got granite traps. If those run out I guess we'll do wood. Or maybe plasteel, we don't need any more.
9.7 days, the psychic soothe ended.
9.5 days, a dry thunderstorm started and an exotic goods trader entered orbit. Before I could call them, 15 Scythers dropped on the far corner of my map to the entrance to the base. Two of them fell to my IED/roof traps. The rest started falling to our normal traps when we called the trader. Nothing good, so we bought components out of habit.
9.2 days. Almost immediately after the last Scyther fell (with a single steel trap left) we got a siege. Well we know how to deal with sieges: Mortars.
They attacked, and one of our guys went down but wasn't dead before they started running. We finished them off for good measure.
8.7 days, we got a caravan request. 3 charge lances from us for 31 advanced components. I'd have taken that normally but what are we going to do with 31 advanced components?
We're basically out of stone, but have limestone chunks lying around. I queue up limestone traps. Hopefully they'll get built. We've got 3000 wood so if all else fails I'll use that.
8 days, a mad alpaca takes out two precious wood traps. The jerk.
I turn on some deep drillers for marble. Hopefully between that and the limestone I'll keep my stone traps up.
7.6 days, a granite meteor falls. I don't bother with it.
7.4 days, 25 tribespeople want to use sappers on it. Bring it. They bring it, right to where all the sappers have gone every time. Where I have IEDs just where they tend to go after they've all bunched up. BOOM. It only gets 4 of them, and the rest get in the base. I and my turrets mop them up.
6.2 days, more sappers. Good thing I repaired that wall and reinstalled those IEDs. But they go to a different wall... MY SHIP. ALL HANDS ON DECK. Two of our melee guys went down but right as their sapper broke the wall, they ran. WHEW. One of our guys died, but we have two resurrection serums. I used it without thought or delay.
6 days. But delay was forced on me. 3 more groups, also sappers, came in from all sides. This could be bad. We take out the one closest to the ship (and our dead colonist) and then slap the serum on him. The other two go to the happy zone and get blown to bits, but they keep digging so we head there too. The sapper gets through, we shoot him, and the rest run. WHEW. We leave the dying and concentrate on our own people. The dead of 5 raids back still litter the landscape.
4.6 days, all these raiders left a chemical fiend's paradise lying around. He could have picked a worse drug than go juice though. So I say go for it, dude.
4.5 days, mechanoids drop on top of us. Only 4 though and one's separated from the rest. We lose 2 turrets but nothing else. I notice we're out of non-insect meat, so I move the insect lavish meals to the top of the list and we'll finish the last 4 days on them an simple meals of corn and rice.
4.2 days, the guy binging has OD'd. I consider putting him in cryosleep. I don't.
3.4 days, more sappers. At least they gave us a day to fix all the holes in the walls, and our people. Their Molotov guy throws one at our granite/plasteel wall, then steps on an IED. Before his friends arrive. Jerk. The rest don't go to the boom zone and break a nearby wall. Jerks. We kills them. The stragglers run and don't do any real damage.
2.3 days. Scratched up eye? No siree, our last bionic eye goes in you.
2 days, everybody's fully healed, and we're actually cleaning the place up a bit. Then 19 tribal sappers show up. Great. They go for the ship, but we learned from last time and set up an IED roof trap. It kills 4 of them. We eviscerate the rest before they flee. We set up the roof trap and patch the wall.
1.2 days, thunderstorm right in the middle of the base. No actual damage though.
13 hours, another raid. Our last? 28 tribals and not a sapper in sight. Before they can kill themselves on our traps, Doctor Shrew (Yes that's the name he came with) steps on one of them. Great job, man. The tribals don't make it halfway down the trap corridor.
0 HOUR. While heading toward the ship, one guy throws a tantrum. SERIOUSLY? I give him one chance, and attempt arrest. He does not resist, but instead of stopping he just goes into a wander. I decide to leave him. As the final colonist gets in a chamber, he snaps out of it so I let him on too. A heat wave starts, and we lift off.
Quote from: gkolocsar on August 15, 2018, 09:25:02 AM
How do you setup those IED roof traps? With regular roofs? Didnt know that worked...
if you look on the left of the image he linked, youll see a number of wooden walls with roofs attached, with ieds next to them. Nothing particularly special, just a wood pillar and a roof zone.
basically, bait enemies under roofs by providing 'cover', and line the cover with enough ieds to explode the cover. Once the single wood pillar explodes (as wood tends to do next to ieds..) the entire roof falls on anyone nearby.
I too had this happen and could not believe that my downed colonists were lost forever. This has to be something that is planned to be changed I imagine.
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on August 14, 2018, 08:47:40 PM
I've done at least 4 of them by now with no issue, 5th one has a manhunter ambush with 12+ foxes vs 2 people. I'm thinking "fuck, they're probably gonna get downed." I start getting extra pods built to send in reinforcements with my melee dudes to rescue these two.
The caravan people go down, the scenario map is force-closed and I'm told that the caravan was lost.
This actually kinda pissed me off, because I just lost both my best builder and miner to something that could of been salvageable, but the game decided that scenario was done and therefore they're lost forever. It's not like they died from a mid-caravan ambush, they were downed in a static spot where I could of easily sent in reinforcements if it wasn't for the fact the game auto-closed it.
These scenario maps should not auto-close at all unless all colony pawns are dead or taken off-map. If I wasn't running commitment mode for this, I probably would of reverted to a previous save. If you want to push for commitment mode as the 'default' mode, these kinds of situations need looked at so the player doesn't feel like they were just cheated out of an interesting situation.
Quote from: gkolocsar on August 15, 2018, 09:25:02 AM
How do you setup those IED roof traps? With regular roofs? Didnt know that worked...
Quote from: Lancefighter on August 15, 2018, 02:04:08 PM
if you look on the left of the image he linked, youll see a number of wooden walls with roofs attached, with ieds next to them. Nothing particularly special, just a wood pillar and a roof zone.
Basically what Lancefighter said, but for clarity here's a closeup of the area with roof visuals (zones and roofs themselves) turned on.
It also shows how I got the idea. There was a small mountain just outside my base and I took out all but one pillar, and then thought how cool it would be to make that collapse on raiders. Once I put IEDs there I realized I could make my own "mountains." I don't claim to be the first to discover and use this, but I did think it up on my own.
You can see several iterations of this, and how to add turrets in the inner wall. Sometimes the raiders just step on the traps (especially while they're wandering around waiting for the sapper to dig through the wall) and sometimes they use the pillar for cover (that's the best).
Having the pillar away from the main base wall helps keep the wall from exploding, but severely limits the usefulness of the trap. As an example of this, nobody EVER hit that "under the mountain" one even though one of the two most favorite sapper entry points was directly north of it (where those two IEDs are in that dead-end hallway).
I found that the best way to set up the IEDs was forward/back from the wall, not side/side as shown here. When running around your walls, raiders jog left or right to miss pillars by one square, and never run all the way up and THEN turn. So that one in the lower right would get far more attackers than the ones up the left wall. I never fixed it because I'm lazy, though in hindsight I could easily have moved them. You don't have to disassemble and reassemble them now.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on August 14, 2018, 08:47:40 PM
This actually kinda pissed me off, because I just lost both my best builder and miner to something that could of been salvageable, but the game decided that scenario was done and therefore they're lost forever.
I agree with everything you said, but for the record, they aren't lost forever. Since they never actually 'died' the game considers them alive and out there somewhere. I had this same thing happen to me and I got both pawns back eventually via prisoner rescue events. This is despite their friends having negative mood buffs saying they died.
Hmm.. <animal revenge> letter (eg while hunting) no longer auto-cancels once <animal> is downed/dead
FWIW I can't find a quick way to discover my build version in-game: only option I can see is to save/exit then reload :(
Quote from: Snafu_RW on August 15, 2018, 09:09:39 PM
FWIW I can't find a quick way to discover my build version in-game: only option I can see is to save/exit then reload :(
This always bugged me while playing but never lasted until I got to the forum. I think the lower right where it says "Development Build" should say "Development Build 0.19.1987" or whatever.
Thanks everyone for the great feedback! These stories are very useful.
Please keep it coming and please do include this information at the top:
Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome/hilliness:
Commitment mode:
Colony age (days):
Hours played in the last 2 days:
Complete mod list:
A new build is up.
A lot of effort in this build went into making transport pods a bit more usable, with fewer stupid AI failures. Various changes were made in this direction.
Bed assignments won't be lost when pawns go on a caravan.
We also addressed an old AI limitation/bug that caused them to interpret open doors as closed, which should make them act a bit less stupidly around opening/closing doors. It remains to be seen how this affects strategy, but I'd be happy to hear about it.
Pelvis and ribcage and similar bones are now impossible to "destroy" since there's no reasonable way to replace them and anyway, a human can't "lose" his pelvis.
Also a bunch of bugs were fixed.
I know we're supposed to not comment on changes but
Quote from: Tynan on August 15, 2018, 09:39:50 PM
Bed assignments won't be lost when pawns go on a caravan.
THANK YOU
QuoteA lot of effort in this build went into making transport pods a bit more usable, with fewer stupid AI failures. Various changes were made in this direction.
Bed assignments won't be lost when pawns go on a caravan.
We also addressed an old AI limitation/bug that caused them to interpret open doors as closed, which should make them act a bit less stupidly around opening/closing doors. It remains to be seen how this affects strategy, but I'd be happy to hear about it.
Yes!
Mechanoids, particularly Scythers and Lancers feel like they are made of paper. Make them tougher to destroy like before. Same goes for the ol'mighty Thrumbo. It just cannot be that insectoids beat down mechanoids this easily. Bring Scyther Blades back together with their salvageable weapons. Why aren't Mechanoids scary anymore?
Curious as to a potential implementation of the "medical emergency" alert when dealing with toxic build up affect
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 15, 2018, 09:12:22 PM
This always bugged me while playing but never lasted until I got to the forum. I think the lower right where it says "Development Build" should say "Development Build 0.19.1987" or whatever.
When you click on the Menu in the bottom right, the build number is displayed in the upper-left corner.
hmmm, I dunno about the ribs/pelvis being errrm, indestructible... *maybe is time to add wheelchairs lol.
Quote from: Starbug3D on August 15, 2018, 11:32:37 PM
When you click on the Menu in the bottom right, the build number is displayed in the upper-left corner.
Wow. It also shows up when you hit ESC. And even though I've done that sometimes a dozen or more times a session, I have never, ever noticed the build # was up there.
Thank you.
The new transport UI is great!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/457773643473354753/479556610042363935/20180816153205_1.jpg
Thanks Tynan. However, can we have a more blatant alert for transporting? My pawn was stuck in that pod for like 4 hours before I realised. Maybe have the transport pod shine up or light up? Ensure that the alert never goes away until it's launched or unloaded?
Hey! Thanks for the update. (I am from Germany so sorry for the bad English.)
I have an idea for a nice feature.
If someone from your colony get crazy can the other colonists only knockdown the person instead of attack?
In the real life you wouldnt attack a crazy person with full force. You would try to knowdown them.
The same with prisoners or enemys that you like to catch. They should be markable as "knockdown not kill". Maybe its possible to use the same kind of function like the animal hunt or tame mark.
Having caravans lost upon all pawns being downed feels quite silly, at times abrupt. There's no reason i can think of that it couldn't be like the main map of your colony where you watch them bleed out to see a game over screen. sometimes people get downed with blunt weapons and would be capable of walking within a minute, even with no enemies on that map.
I'd use the hell out of an unarmed attack option, i never want to break fingers of colonists or prisoners when they go berserk. It's a huge hassle to unequip all their weapons. This is also another reason to unequip your melee pawns if they are about to break, dont want them spearing the cook in the face...
Also would be nice to have a right click menu on paste dispensers. you can wait for a pawn to grab one and while they are on the tile you pause the game and draft and undraft them until you have the amount of meals you want, but for some reason you can't set a bill or even prioritize it. what if i want extra paste meals?
Tribal, merciless, temperate forest, 40 days in.
Building speed feels way too fast for me with wood, steel.
I feel like I was able to achieve way too much with 40 days in merciless.
Also way too much steel around, and steel gets mined super fast. I had standing reserve of 1000+ 2 weeks into game.
Food gathering speed is also bit too fast, I have tons of food and my cook is mostly wandering around even though he's feeding 5 people + 3 animals.
Crafting needs some love already, 1 skill for many different activities, still not enough useful shit to craft.
If colonists cared more about what they wore at each point ("this armor is heavy - 8" / "I need a hat -6" / "wearing nice shirt +2", "wearing shitty pants -3"), had affinity for certain weapons ("I prefer using bows -5/+5"), etc, would probably make the whole crafting game much more relevant and help make the mood game less extreme
Animals follow into building when door hugging, massive difference, boom animals fucking scary now.
Muffalos self tamed after I got first quest in tribal, not sure if intentional, but I finally did first caravan runs and that felt great!
If that could be constant that getting quests add some chance for muffaloes to self tame would be awesome.
At same time my quests are giving me rewards that are far beyond tribal level. I would prefer to be given relevant rewards or at least not be able to do a power claw surgery on day 20 as a tribal.
Maybe random thought, but why does patchleather exist if we dont need to convert all leather to it before creating clothes? is it not meant as another (correct imo) step before crafting clothes?
I find that with tribals I need 2 research benches to make decent progress, and at the same time there's still not enough for my tribe to do in between discoveries. Having animal handling be worth while, or having to actively sustain def options like fire wall / oil wall, water moat with ammunition that needs to be continually created would fill that gap of things to do.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Ground penetrating scanner has only 50hp? Bit small for something worth 1k.
Initial high Building Wealth even on Naked Brutality scenarios bug didn't get fixed this release, gotta keep waiting.
Quote from: xion1088 on August 16, 2018, 09:38:59 AM
Initial high Building Wealth even on Naked Brutality scenarios bug didn't get fixed this release, gotta keep waiting.
Have they acknowledged it as a bug?
If it's not a bug then it makes no sense to have Building Wealth already high when you haven't even landed, even on Naked Brutality starts.
I had that bug due to my own mod that gave terrain a work to build - that indirectly gave it a wealth value. Just like gold tiles it inflates wealth, just every tile is worth much less, but the entire map is worth something so it stacks up. Make sure it's not a mod.
Is animals changed latest version?
They reject to follow master, reject to haul properly and instead just wander into raiders and die...
Well, just got half colony dead from plague random event, herbal medicine, 7 skill medic, food, temperature, wooden excelent beds, still all infected died.
is such kind of challenge and tension is expected?
Already did, disabled all my mods and started a new game with the same seed and same landing location, Building Wealth is still high as soon as I land, I did have an issue with a mod that made my Item Wealth rise to 21K but even after disabling that one my Building Wealth was still high, here's an example:
(https://i.imgur.com/Uu0aFL2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/xvbkVGV.png)
First image is with all my mods enabled, second is with all my mods disabled and only running Core, you can see that Building Wealth is already at 5600 and pawns haven't even landed.
Quote from: username2 on August 16, 2018, 05:43:03 AM
Tribal, merciless, temperate forest, 40 days in.
Building speed feels way too fast for me with wood, steel.
I feel like I was able to achieve way too much with 40 days in merciless.
Also way too much steel around, and steel gets mined super fast. I had standing reserve of 1000+ 2 weeks into game.
Food gathering speed is also bit too fast, I have tons of food and my cook is mostly wandering around even though he's feeding 5 people + 3 animals.
Crafting needs some love already, 1 skill for many different activities, still not enough useful shit to craft.
If colonists cared more about what they wore at each point ("this armor is heavy - 8" / "I need a hat -6" / "wearing nice shirt +2", "wearing shitty pants -3"), had affinity for certain weapons ("I prefer using bows -5/+5"), etc, would probably make the whole crafting game much more relevant and help make the mood game less extreme
Animals follow into building when door hugging, massive difference, boom animals fucking scary now.
Muffalos self tamed after I got first quest in tribal, not sure if intentional, but I finally did first caravan runs and that felt great!
If that could be constant that getting quests add some chance for muffaloes to self tame would be awesome.
At same time my quests are giving me rewards that are far beyond tribal level. I would prefer to be given relevant rewards or at least not be able to do a power claw surgery on day 20 as a tribal.
Maybe random thought, but why does patchleather exist if we dont need to convert all leather to it before creating clothes? is it not meant as another (correct imo) step before crafting clothes?
I find that with tribals I need 2 research benches to make decent progress, and at the same time there's still not enough for my tribe to do in between discoveries. Having animal handling be worth while, or having to actively sustain def options like fire wall / oil wall, water moat with ammunition that needs to be continually created would fill that gap of things to do.
You had a big stock of steel cause you kept mining you don't have to mine everything right away.
Crafting seems fine and definitely no -8 mood or any negative mood for wearing required gear such as armour. This won't make crafting more relevant just make armour less worthwhile and increase break risk. Colonists already have lower mood than in B18 due to changes in expectations and wealth.
Patch leather is there so you can turn the small amounts of crappy leather from birds, dogs or other small yield animals in to something somewhat useful if actually not something you would make clothes out of except if you had no other options.
I play tribal start alot and I have no clue why your colonists have so little to do. No need for more busy work.
Quote from: xion1088 on August 16, 2018, 09:51:53 AM
If it's not a bug then it makes no sense to have Building Wealth already high when you haven't even landed, even on Naked Brutality starts.
Not seen it as a bug but it happened after floors got added to the wealth calculation and the game now considers all revealed floors on a map yours. This bumps your wealth up. On crash landed and tribal starts I had just shy of 14k wealth on start so no more extremely low expectations as that stops at 10k so that's a 6 mood penalty from this change.
I like that floors are part of wealth calculation now, but Im going to add my voice to those already stating it needs a bit of rebalance. I added a single 9 by 10 room of sandstone walls and floors, and completely empty it added 10k to my wealth.
As humorous as it is to imagine raiders coming to "take ma'h floors", I feel a floor's "wealth" should be based more on the room they are apart of than just their raw value.
Make it so only silver, gold, jade, uranium and sterile flooring count towards wealth, like dude it's just a stone floor, why you want to kill me for it? That bad you need/want some sandstone blocks?
Make it so floors only in your home area count as wealth. If you don't clean it, it's not yours. Yes, it's easily exploitable by players, but i'm sure the mood penalty of a filthy base is a fair trade-off, plus it completely negates the point of building floors, as a clean dirt floor looks better than a gold floor covered in blood and vomit.
General concerns for merciless / commitment:
Shield belt baiting is absurdly strong, even more so than door peeking. At least door peeking you have the realistic chance of getting hit, shield belt baiting in cover means you're practically invincible.
I would also point out that research should probably also lead to higher raid point contribution. Every other colony / pawn improvement does, so research is one of the last areas where you can feel like you are making headway without also supralinearly increasing your difficulty. This should be removed.
Quote from: Broken Reality on August 16, 2018, 11:36:30 AM
Quote from: username2 on August 16, 2018, 05:43:03 AM
Tribal, merciless, temperate forest, 40 days in.
Building speed feels way too fast for me with wood, steel.
I feel like I was able to achieve way too much with 40 days in merciless.
Also way too much steel around, and steel gets mined super fast. I had standing reserve of 1000+ 2 weeks into game.
Food gathering speed is also bit too fast, I have tons of food and my cook is mostly wandering around even though he's feeding 5 people + 3 animals.
Crafting needs some love already, 1 skill for many different activities, still not enough useful shit to craft.
If colonists cared more about what they wore at each point ("this armor is heavy - 8" / "I need a hat -6" / "wearing nice shirt +2", "wearing shitty pants -3"), had affinity for certain weapons ("I prefer using bows -5/+5"), etc, would probably make the whole crafting game much more relevant and help make the mood game less extreme
Animals follow into building when door hugging, massive difference, boom animals fucking scary now.
Muffalos self tamed after I got first quest in tribal, not sure if intentional, but I finally did first caravan runs and that felt great!
If that could be constant that getting quests add some chance for muffaloes to self tame would be awesome.
At same time my quests are giving me rewards that are far beyond tribal level. I would prefer to be given relevant rewards or at least not be able to do a power claw surgery on day 20 as a tribal.
Maybe random thought, but why does patchleather exist if we dont need to convert all leather to it before creating clothes? is it not meant as another (correct imo) step before crafting clothes?
I find that with tribals I need 2 research benches to make decent progress, and at the same time there's still not enough for my tribe to do in between discoveries. Having animal handling be worth while, or having to actively sustain def options like fire wall / oil wall, water moat with ammunition that needs to be continually created would fill that gap of things to do.
You had a big stock of steel cause you kept mining you don't have to mine everything right away.
Crafting seems fine and definitely no -8 mood or any negative mood for wearing required gear such as armour. This won't make crafting more relevant just make armour less worthwhile and increase break risk. Colonists already have lower mood than in B18 due to changes in expectations and wealth.
Patch leather is there so you can turn the small amounts of crappy leather from birds, dogs or other small yield animals in to something somewhat useful if actually not something you would make clothes out of except if you had no other options.
I play tribal start alot and I have no clue why your colonists have so little to do. No need for more busy work.
most things that are not research lead to increased raid and reduced mood due to expectation, so really he is playing optimally even if he doesn't think he is.
It is funny that the best way to improve mood is deliberately impoverishing your colonists, since most mood increasing mechanics besides drugs suffer from such massive diminishing returns that they are actively detrimental.
In my experience, building the economy to sustain a conditional +2 mood increase from better dining and rec leads to a global 6 mood penalty, in addition to greater corpse disposal pressure. Pretty obvious lesson here.
Quote from: erdrik on August 16, 2018, 12:04:41 PM
I like that floors are part of wealth calculation now, but Im going to add my voice to those already stating it needs a bit of rebalance. I added a single 9 by 10 room of sandstone walls and floors, and completely empty it added 10k to my wealth.
As humorous as it is to imagine raiders coming to "take ma'h floors", I feel a floor's "wealth" should be based more on the room they are apart of than just their raw value.
9x10 shouldn't increase wealth that much. What did change in the most recent build is that your pawn market value now contributes to wealth. That is much more likely to contribute to a 10k spike than some flooring.
That said I don't know the sandstone block value off the top of my head.
Quote from: bbqftw on August 16, 2018, 01:20:31 PM
9x10 shouldn't increase wealth that much. What did change in the most recent build is that your pawn market value now contributes to wealth. That is much more likely to contribute to a 10k spike than some flooring.
That said I don't know the sandstone block value off the top of my head.
Ah, You are correct. I double checked an auto save from before the room was finished, and the wealth increase does indeed occur before that point. I had been racking my brain trying to think of what resources on the map had changed without realizing something may have changed in the update.
My bad.
Don't worry, we're adjusting expectations boundaries to compensate, it should be about the same progression as it was before, but integrating information from terrain/bionics value.
Is it by intention that the the Autocannon turret can hit things within its dead zone? Because when I was defending a raid, it fired off two volleys and, not even joking, in the first volley to took off one of my colonists arms at the shoulder, and then did the same in the 2nd volley to another colonist. I had put sandbags in front of it with the intention that I would keep my colonists fairly close to the turret so when the enemies closed the gap and the turret wasn't able to aim at them anymore, I wouldn't be at risk of losing it since its fairly expensive. I'm kind of disappointed that I can't actually put and people in front of it, even though, logically, it shouldn't be able to hit them within its dead zone.
Quote from: dritter on August 16, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Is it by intention that the the Autocannon turret can hit things within its dead zone? Because when I was defending a raid, it fired off two volleys and, not even joking, in the first volley to took off one of my colonists arms at the shoulder, and then did the same in the 2nd volley to another colonist. I had put sandbags in front of it with the intention that I would keep my colonists fairly close to the turret so when the enemies closed the gap and the turret wasn't able to aim at them anymore, I wouldn't be at risk of losing it since its fairly expensive. I'm kind of disappointed that I can't actually put and people in front of it, even though, logically, it shouldn't be able to hit them within its dead zone.
No, that sounds like a problem, we'll look into it. I can see justifications either way but it seems intuitive it won't hit inside it's min radius.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest/Mountainous
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 683
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4-6
Complete mod list: Conduit Deconstruct
Just to add to this, I had a colonist shot dead by the Uranium Slug Turrent significantly inside its minimum range and was so surprised that was possible.
Quote from: Tynan on August 16, 2018, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: dritter on August 16, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
Is it by intention that the the Autocannon turret can hit things within its dead zone? Because when I was defending a raid, it fired off two volleys and, not even joking, in the first volley to took off one of my colonists arms at the shoulder, and then did the same in the 2nd volley to another colonist. I had put sandbags in front of it with the intention that I would keep my colonists fairly close to the turret so when the enemies closed the gap and the turret wasn't able to aim at them anymore, I wouldn't be at risk of losing it since its fairly expensive. I'm kind of disappointed that I can't actually put and people in front of it, even though, logically, it shouldn't be able to hit them within its dead zone.
No, that sounds like a problem, we'll look into it. I can see justifications either way but it seems intuitive it won't hit inside it's min radius.
Quote from: xion1088 on August 16, 2018, 09:51:53 AM
If it's not a bug then it makes no sense to have Building Wealth already high when you haven't even landed, even on Naked Brutality starts.
If I didn't know it was that the game now counts floors (and anything else with a dollar value, like rocks if you have that mod installed) then I'd just assume it was the raw value of the land I fell onto.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest/Mountainous
Commitment mode: Yes
Current colony age (days): 683
Hours played in the last 2 days: 4-6
Complete mod list: Conduit Deconstruct
Just testing out the new transport loading. If I set a transport to load a human and then remove them from the items to load contents lists before they go into the pod, they still go into the pod anyway, every time, and the transport says it's completed the loading. Then I removed the human from the loaded items contents list and they exit but begin to wander aimlessly. While in this state they are not listed when trying to form a caravan. They do respond to drafting, but seem otherwise to be bound to wander forever. I had to go to the transport pod and cancel the load in order to snap them out of it.
seems like transport loads should be auto cancelled when all contents have been removed. not sure how else you might fix the wandering problem.
Quote from: dritter on August 16, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
... I'm kind of disappointed that I can't actually put and people in front of it, even though, logically, it shouldn't be able to hit them within its dead zone.
I disagree. That is not logic, it is video game logic.
Logically a projectile will hit the first thing it's trajectory path happens to cross over.
It sounds like the colonists are being hit by the same mechanic that allows bullets to hit obstructions between the shooter and the target. To me it makes perfect sense that if you stand in front of the barrel of a gun as it fires you gun' get shot. Standing closer to it won't prevent that regardless of how ineffective it is to aim it at close range.
Of course if the Auto-Cannon Turret is actually on a
raised platform or tower, then that could present a situation in which a colonist can stand in front of it and not get shot. But then I feel like if that is the case it should not be buildable under a roof.
Quote from: erdrik on August 16, 2018, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dritter on August 16, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
... I'm kind of disappointed that I can't actually put and people in front of it, even though, logically, it shouldn't be able to hit them within its dead zone.
I disagree. That is not logic, it is video game logic.
Logically a projectile will hit the first thing it's trajectory path happens to cross over.
It sounds like the colonists are being hit by the same mechanic that allows bullets to hit obstructions between the shooter and the target. To me it makes perfect sense that if you stand in front of the barrel of a gun as it fires you gun' get shot. Standing closer to it won't prevent that regardless of how ineffective it is to aim it at close range.
Of course if the Auto-Cannon Turret is actually on a raised platform or tower, then that could present a situation in which a colonist can stand in front of it and not get shot. But then I feel like if that is the case it should not be buildable under a roof.
I'd like to know what your real-world-logic based reason is for the minimum range on autocannons that simultaneously accounts for situations like the one being discussed.
I'm not being snide, I genuinely want to see if someone can come up with a design that allows for a straight-firing projectile weapon to have a minimum range and still be capable of accidentally hitting targets within that minimum range.
Edit: I've been sketching away here trying to design something that would allow for what I've described and all I can come up with that's even vaguely plausible in 3d space is a weapon that can't physically aim at a given point but the projectile's inherent scatter is sufficient to allow it to deviate into a theoretical minimum range.
The problem of course is that the only way that makes any sense is for the scale to be absurd.
Quite simply I'm 100% sure that what's going on here is real world logic. If you're given a minimum range for a projectile weapon it's reasonable to assume that it simply can not hit targets within that minimum range except for possibly edge cases near the outer extent of said range.
Quote from: erdrik on August 16, 2018, 07:39:13 PM
Quote from: dritter on August 16, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
... I'm kind of disappointed that I can't actually put and people in front of it, even though, logically, it shouldn't be able to hit them within its dead zone.
I disagree. That is not logic, it is video game logic.
Logically a projectile will hit the first thing it's trajectory path happens to cross over.
[snip]
Of course if the Auto-Cannon Turret is actually on a raised platform or tower, then that could present a situation in which a colonist can stand in front of it and not get shot. But then I feel like if that is the case it should not be buildable under a roof.
Hmm.. altho not RL compatible, a solution may be to make autocannons/uranium slug turrets ballistic weps rather than direct-fire weps? This way they should be unroofed (creating a problem in toxic fallout for crewed weps?) but retain their min range stat 'realistically'..
A RL autocannon (whether it uses DU shells or not) is a direct fire wep with no effective min range*: the range stat arises from it's main use in pairs on fighter planes where cone-of-fire convergence at range is an issue. Ofc, if T is equating 'Autocannon' with 'Cannon' in-game, it makes much more sense to have it be ballistic rather than direct-fire..
*The difficulty in manually crewing such a massive wep is why they're so ineffective outside a vehicle mount, similar to minigun IG
Quote from: Boboid on August 16, 2018, 07:56:23 PM
I'm not being snide, I genuinely want to see if someone can come up with a design that allows for a straight-firing projectile weapon to have a minimum range and still be capable of accidentally hitting targets within that minimum range.
If the AC is a dual-barreled wep mount with the barrels fairly far apart, the convergence point will allow something to close to within 'min range' - if it's lucky enough not to be shredded while doing so. Think triangles
ACs being so unwieldy, it makes a certain amount of sense, but I'm not sure how it fits with IG logic ATM..
Quote from: Snafu_RW on August 16, 2018, 08:14:35 PM
Quote from: Boboid on August 16, 2018, 07:56:23 PM
I'm not being snide, I genuinely want to see if someone can come up with a design that allows for a straight-firing projectile weapon to have a minimum range and still be capable of accidentally hitting targets within that minimum range.
If the AC is a dual-barreled wep mount with the barrels fairly far apart, the convergence point will allow something to close to within 'min range' - if it's lucky enough not to be shredded while doing so. Think triangles
ACs being so unwieldy, it makes a certain amount of sense, but I'm not sure how it fits with IG logic ATM..
The scale for what you're describing is completely incompatible with the RW representation of an autocannon however. Autocannons in rimworld are 2x2. Even if you assume the tiles are 3-5feet wide and the barrels are on the far edges. At that point it's starting to get weird.
It's also completely incompatible with the way that minimum range is displayed. It's not conical.
If you start with the condition " Minimum range = true " and go from there I genuinely can't find a way to bend real world physics to allow for what's being described.
Which is really the heart of the issue. It's not video game logic to assume nothing within that displayed sphere(circle) can be struck by the weapon.
That's fairynuff Bob; I'll have to dream up some other headcanon overnight before T fixes the inconsistency ;)
Reminder to self: "If you start with the condition " Minimum range = true " and go from there I genuinely can't find a way to bend real world physics to allow for what's being described."
Quote from: Boboid on August 16, 2018, 07:56:23 PM
...
I'd like to know what your real-world-logic based reason is for the minimum range on autocannons that simultaneously accounts for situations like the one being discussed.
...
Like
real real world, or real world in the context of AI or ES controlled turrets that can be built by the average joe(that fell in a drop pod from space) from spare scrap found on sight? (Im assuming the later, because the former severely limits options and this is a gaming forum...)
-The turret is fully capable of physically firing on targets within the minimum range.
-The AI/ES that controls it is not allowed to
target anything within the minimum range.
-There are no other limitations.
This would result in the AI/ES being able to target an enemy that is not in the minimum range, even if another pawn that is not the target(but is in minimum range) is standing between the cannon and the cannons target.
T = Target
B = Bystander
C = Cannon
MAX___________MIN
|_______T______|_____B______C
Some tribal traders are not leaving the map while there is a toxic fallout. They used to do it before if im not wrong. Guess this is a bug.
With the update on Pelvis, i wanted to rebuild it on a colonist with dev mode but the option to restore pelvis is not there. Is that intended? If yes, what can i do?
I just noticed that friendlies downed by the toxic fallout begin walking as soon as the debuff hits serious.
As soon as they step outside it goes to extreme again.
They should wait to the end of the fallout or at least move when the debuff is on minor so that they can leave without dying.
Quote from: erdrik on August 16, 2018, 09:10:11 PM
Like real real world, or real world in the context of AI or ES controlled turrets that can be built by the average joe(that fell in a drop pod from space) from spare scrap found on sight? (Im assuming the later, because the former severely limits options and this is a gaming forum...)
-The turret is fully capable of physically firing on targets within the minimum range.
-The AI/ES that controls it is not allowed to target anything within the minimum range.
-There are no other limitations.
That's very clever. The displayed minimum range is still accurate/true and it allows for shots to land within the displayed minimum range.
Shifting the restriction from physical impossibility to programmed disinclination works quite well.
Of course I don't know
why you would designate a minimum range for a direct-fire weapon if it's still capable of firing within said range. You just end up at the same problem as before if said minimum range serves no purpose.
Interesting though.
Quote from: Boboid on August 16, 2018, 11:00:57 PM
...
Of course I don't know why you would designate a minimum range for a direct-fire weapon if it's still capable of firing within said range. You just end up at the same problem as before if said minimum range serves no purpose.
Interesting though.
Many times it isn't something done on purpose.
Maybe the builder doesn't have access to the right materials to give the AI/ES proper collateral fire filters or FF ID.
Maybe the builder isn't a programmer and has to rely on pre-made software components found in the field, and the software is flawed or corrupted.(Im an amateur game programmer and have on many occasions forgotten to include such secondary ff/ collateral filters)
The mini-turret technically has the same problem it just doesn't have a minimum range that makes the problem more visible.
Just had a poor NB pawn get downed by a raider and drug off the map. I now have no colonists but did not get the "game over" message.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 16, 2018, 11:23:17 PM
Just had a poor NB pawn get downed by a raider and drug off the map. I now have no colonists but did not get the "game over" message.
It sometimes takes a little bit for it to pop up. Stick your game on 3x speed and wait for a day to pass and I bet it will pop. I usually wait a few days at max speed just in case I get another sudden join.
I have a problem with the "Fabrication bench" which requires 2 Advanced Components.
[/u]
Advanced Components can only be crafted at the Fabrication bench, but without said material there's no way I can craft the needed bench to produce the item of the requiring material... :P :P :P
This is because I'm playing dual colony, and if I were playing triple colony due to starting in a flat map...that would make it even worst.
The only way a player gets Advanced Components without buying from traders is after destroying Crashed Ship Parts.
Since I'm playing with two simultaneous colonies...all CSP that landed, went directly to my First Colony only. So now my Second Colony cannot build a Fabrication bench...
Sure... I can just throw some Advanced Components from my first colony to second colony through a Transport Pod... but that would be bad gaming...
Basically, remove the requirement of a material that cannot be obtained until the bench itself is built...
...seriously...
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on August 17, 2018, 01:14:22 AM
Advanced Components can only be crafted at the Fabrication bench
... buying from traders ...
... destroying Crashed Ship Parts ...
You state that they can only be made at the bench, and then state 2 additional ways to get them.
Quote
... two simultaneous colonies ...
The game tells you that it's not designed to work with multiple colonies and suggests you only use one.
QuoteI can just throw some Advanced Components from my first colony to second colony through a Transport Pod... but that would be bad gaming...
I don't know why that's bad gaming. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable solution to me. Another is to send a caravan between them.
Funny story! In my latest file I painstakingly bought two advanced components from two separate traders. Soon after I constructed the fabrication bench, someone felt sorry for me and gifted two advanced components.
gating fabrication behind stuff produced by fabrication is kind of neh.
game should provide alternative ineffective, costly and slow but guaranteed way to get all "progress tokens".
Waiting for caravan or trader (without zero ways to effect such event) and praying RNGesus is not okay.
Quote from: RawCode on August 17, 2018, 03:37:38 AM
...
Waiting for caravan or trader (without zero ways to effect such event) and praying RNGesus is not okay.
You can call an exotic goods trader from an ally, which will often have 1 - 3 advanced components. RNGesus is needed for many things in Rimworld, but not the fab bench.
Once you know how you can get adv component in the game, you can not say this is an RNG. If there is always a way to get there and there is a way to get at least 5 or more, it is not an RNG. I think that's just a lack of knowledge about the game.
1. Please purchase in the town near. There is always there.
2.Please purchase in exotic caravan.
3.Mechanoid ships always come out.
4.It also comes from ancient threats.
5.orbital trader
It was wrong to blame the RNG while you did not get it. It has a chance to get enough. It's impossible not to get it.
The point here is that there is lack of "Autonomy", your story shouldn't have to rely on "Others". It's a life philosophy, you must be able to handle yourself without external help.
You can destroy psychic ship chunks to get them. That is not 'relying' on others. Why is this such an issue?
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on August 17, 2018, 06:55:00 AM
The point here is that there is lack of "Autonomy", your story shouldn't have to rely on "Others". It's a life philosophy, you must be able to handle yourself without external help.
Eh... I kinda disagree.
There does not exist a means to live life in a society without relying on someone else in some way.
In the game and in real life.
Also practically everything in the game strongly suggests it is balanced around relying on others.
The skill decay, and starting skills randomizer is the biggest evidence to this. Ive never run into a pawn that was capable of doing everything needed to thrive
effectively. It is undeniable that accepting help from and interacting with others provides a huge advantage. The "go it alone" mode is called Naked
Brutality for a reason.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on August 17, 2018, 01:14:22 AM
I have a problem with the "Fabrication bench" which requires 2 Advanced Components.
I think it's okay because Fabrication bench is able to make advanced components.
You need some advanced things when you want workbench that makes advanced things.
I think it is perfectly fine and often a great mechanic, that some stuff requires resources you dont have yet and are part of the workchain to get it.
It adds depth and difficulty. Btw, autonomy is nothing you can have easily and is something to aim for as an ultimate goal. Why should there be any traders if the colony is perfectly autonomous?
I was quite surprised that this complaint came from somebody who labels simplyfication as negative
Why we ever need to produce anything in colony if we have "traders"?
As long as game force player to pray RNGesus just to progress, this is not good game.
I will remind about dwarf fortress that allows player to ASK caravan for specific things and caravan will bring that specific things next cycle.
No randomness involed, you always get caravan next spring with things you asked.
Current implementation of game:
1) Gate your from progression for no good reason
2) Force you to wait for event that may happen or not
3) Provide no alternative route
Actually i find entire "caravan and travel" stuff and design decisions related to it ("things" that everyone able to produce in infinite amounts, but you can't) unfun.
Latest changes not about "how to enjoy vanilla" it's about "how to modout things you hate".
Quote from: erdrik on August 17, 2018, 08:41:58 AM
Eh... I kinda disagree.
There does not exist a means to live life in a society without relying on someone else in some way.
In the game and in real life.
Also practically everything in the game strongly suggests it is balanced around relying on others.
The skill decay, and starting skills randomizer is the biggest evidence to this. Ive never run into a pawn that was capable of doing everything needed to thrive effectively. It is undeniable that accepting help from and interacting with others provides a huge advantage. The "go it alone" mode is called Naked Brutality for a reason.
Autonomy is
not the same as individualism or selfishness as you understand it. Autonomy is the ability/right for a group of people, say, a Nation (or City State example: Sparta) to rule itself without the interference of outsiders. For example, we "players" do not have the chance to start a new game with an affiliation to an already existing Faction, but we must create an entire faction by ourselves,
and we do as we please.
Basically, this is just a one-time-experience. Since that's all you need to learn that from now on, any colony that you build besides the original first would do well to buy Advanced Components from before entering the never ending last third of the game and worry never again to be stuck in progress in the
utter most boring part of the game.
Other faction towns always have advanced components, as do several types of traders. There's no randomness in it.
There are some other more random bonus ways to get them, but it's impossible to get stuck waiting.
--
Quick new build is going up. This one should re-adjust the expectations boundaries to count floor wealth, and the LRMS now is guaranteed to find lumps at at least a certain minimum frequency. And various other changes.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on August 17, 2018, 10:37:18 AM
...
Autonomy is not the same as individualism or selfishness as you understand it. Autonomy is the ability/right for a group of people, say, a Nation (or City State example: Sparta) to rule itself without the interference of outsiders. ...
In the context of maintaining "the ability/right for a group of people ... to rule itself", trade and scavenging is not "interference from outsiders". Raids and other attacks are.
Trade or scavenging does not prevent you from directing your colony in the manner you see fit.
The only things that even comes close to messing with your autonomy is being attacked and having your stuff stolen or destroyed or your colonists kidnapped or captured.
this isnt my playthrough but it does contain some information ya'll should be privvy to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qgg-vjZMBc
20th episode u may need to go back a few, shows the complications of caravan life. things like living on the road isn't factored in to raids and such and he has had quite an easy time as a result. ambushes by 3 people cuz your whole colony is in transit is funny when you have like 7 dudes to shoot em to death.
the caravan crazies (tm) where you are gathering people together and it takes so long they go on mental breaks is also a frequent issue in this series. If you have the time you should watch it from the start, its quite informational as its an entire playthrough, and the youtuber does a good well at documenting every SINGLE thought he has lol
a few QoL things he does can be gleemed from his playthroughs that would be cool if it were made standard, like having a "meat spot" next to a stove to speed cook. i wont go into everything as i dont have the time at the moment, but its quite informational for sure.
Hi,
While testing, I was surprised to find so few items and resources after raiding a town nearby. It is much more interesting to trade instead of destroy other bases, but it's probably intended?
Quote from: thuban on August 17, 2018, 12:25:55 PM
Hi,
While testing, I was surprised to find so few items and resources after raiding a town nearby. It is much more interesting to trade instead of destroy other bases, but it's probably intended?
I do appreciate this being pointed out by someone, just because I have similar thoughts about the enemy/rival/NPC bases being lacking. For one, I'd like there to be more factions in general. For two, why not have themed or specialized colonies? Bulk goods trading colonies would obviously have the ability to produce bulk resources, and that should show. Additionally, pirate traders and other types should come from colonies that have at least some evidence that they produce these things or have the ability to capture others, etc.
Of course, I can see where adding a bunch of stuff on faction maps can maybe make the game chug, or worse, crash at inopportune times, but I've never designed a game before lol
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Savage
Biome/hilliness: Boreal Forest/Large Hills
Commitment mode: No
Current colony age (days): 56
Hours played in the last 2 days: 6
Complete mod list: Progress Renderer, P-Music, and Numbers.
Uhm... something might be weird with my game. 4 raids and one manhunter pack in the span of five days. They have been fairly proportional, 3 - 4 pirates and 5 tribalists, and the manhunter pack was just one warg. I don't know if Randy got high on flake or if it has something to do with the latest build, but it's odd to me. I'll attach graphs.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Nynzal on August 17, 2018, 10:17:11 AM
I think it is perfectly fine and often a great mechanic, that some stuff requires resources you dont have yet and are part of the workchain to get it.
It adds depth and difficulty. Btw, autonomy is nothing you can have easily and is something to aim for as an ultimate goal. Why should there be any traders if the colony is perfectly autonomous?
I was quite surprised that this complaint came from somebody who labels simplyfication as negative
I can't agree more. It helps you get involved into trading and/or getting out of your comfort zone at a point where you're supposed to have a good infrastructure in place and things are starting to get stale.
I've noticed that packing a large amount of things for a caravan really breaks the game. While packing colonists refuse to stop for recreation so if the packing takes longer than a day or so my colonists will start breaking nonstop because they're recreation starved. I hope something can be done to fix this because it's really hampering the effectiveness of my caravans.
Quote from: Tynan on August 17, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Other faction towns always have advanced components, as do several types of traders. There's no randomness in it.
There are some other more random bonus ways to get them, but it's impossible to get stuck waiting.
--
Quick new build is going up. This one should re-adjust the expectations boundaries to count floor wealth, and the LRMS now is guaranteed to find lumps at at least a certain minimum frequency. And various other changes.
I have sent caravans to get advanced components in neutral outlander towns on my last two playthroughs. The first time the first settlement didn't have them, so I had to go to a second one. On the current playthrough I'm on an island and the settlement on the island with me didn't have any. I had to wait for a passing trade ship. If they are meant to always have them that doesn't seem to be working at present. Current playthrough was on 0.19.1996
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest -9 to 30 degrees (30 days growing period)
Commitment mode: Yes
Colony age (days): 633
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10
Complete mod list: Numbers
Wealth : 741k (Made no attempt to control wealth)
Final Sequence Log
14 Sep 5510, 5pm : Engine Startup attempt with 19 colonists
14 Sep 5510, 7pm : 66 man Tribal Raid with Father and father in law of a couple , 1 colonist caught in the open while hauling (arrow stormed to down status and kidnapped immediately with the raid leaving)
15 Sep 5510 3pm : Recruited a prison to fill the ranks and carry the dropped minigun
1 Dec 5510 1pm : 41x Scythers Attacking from the north, no casualties except 5 or 6 turrets
2 Dec 5510 8am : 41x Scythers Northeast Direction, Called aid as turrets partially down and little time to rebuild traps (Only 8 men arrived and died as meatshields together with 10 animals, another 15 wounded badly)
2 Dec 5510 3pm : Group of 16 centipedes crawled from southward direction, Killing all the downed animals in the battlefield
2 Dec 5510 8pm : Bulk Goods Trader (Called), Stopped all cooking, planting and put everyone on repairs plus rebuilding mortar ammo
4 Dec 5510 3am : War Merchant (Called)
4 Dec 5510 4pm : Raid, 53 Pirates, mother of one of the colonists (One colonist got shot in the torso by my own sniper turret for 75 dmg, poor dude got himself eaten up by wild animals while i was mopping up the raid
4 Dec 5510 5pm : Prison Break!!! Decided to let them get shredded by turrets and left for dead
6 Dec 5510 2am : Siege, 32 Pirates, Easiest battle by far, a few mortar hits and they fled after a short exchange
6 Dec 5510 8pm : Raid, 32 Scythers and 75! Tribal Friendlies moved in to help! Being the warrior tribe they are, after mopping up the scythers these bravehearts charged straight at the trader group and took them as well. Such bravery
6 Dec 5510 2am : Second group of mechs, 8 centipede 7 lancers 6 scythers. With defenses still down, we bravely engaged, losing 2 colonists(resurrected) with another 2 badly injured
8 Dec 5510 0am : Shaman Merchant, *We ran out of steel and wood at this point
8 Dec 5510 1pm : Raid, More Mechs 7 Scythers from north, 9 from South. Raid sizes are dwindling in tandem with my base destruction and deaths. Barely any time to sleep and eat much less do anything else.
9 Dec 5510 0am : Siege, 19 men. No time to sleep! Mortar stations! 400 steel to haul home
9 Dec 5510 8pm : Siege, 21 men. Easy battle. More steel and mortar ammo
10 Dec 5510 4am : Drop pod raid on top of base! 15 men or so. No time to count. They died fast to strategically placed mini turrets in base
12 Dec 5510 0am : Mechs drop on top of us, called for aid only to realize that there were only six scythers, oh
12 Dec 5510 1am : Second wave? 4 centipedes and six lancers moving in from the north by foot, raid numbers are now small enough to cause absolutely zero issues
12 Dec 5510 0am : Size 20 Sapper Raid, Managed to chase them away with only losing 8 batteries.
12 Dec 5510 3am : 19 Man siege. Still waiting to even engage the first raid. Will have to split up.
12 Dec 5510 6am : Friendlies, 15 man
14 Dec 5510 5pm : Reactor ready
Notable observations :
1) Death tally :
10 colonists killed in total before ship launch attempt, 3 resurrected via resurrection serum
2 got fragged by siege mortars when i attempted to hunker down early game due to half the colonists out caravaning (hit once in the open once in the hospital)
1 colonists got hunted down by a warg on a mining expedition during winter
1 got his head shot off by an autocannon shot from behind
2 men storytold by mechanoid lancers
1 poor dude got storytold by my own charge lance
2 died during regular firefights with pirates
1 got euthanized due to broken pelvis, did not receive a single healer mech serum quest in 10 years game time
2) "Bedrooms" everywhere!?
My two 11x12 Hydroponics grow room = bedroom (very impressive 101 rating)
My 11x30 Storeroom = bedroom (Unbelievably impressive 173 rating)
My walled off Soil plantation area = bedroom (Extremely impressive 137 rating)
Hospital = bedroom (190 rating)
Primary dining room + rec room (210 rating)
3) Wondrously impressive rooms (rating beyond 240 seems practically unattainable? Raid sizes would be inhuman?)
4) Pawns able to immediately pick up items from stools and chairs yet need to turn to pick up from shelfs
5) Sniper turrets are the real danger, one shots my colonists from the back real easy, NEVER STAND IN FRONT OF ONE
6) My chemical interest pawn keeps overdosing and dropping his weapon. Micromanagement hell
7) Raid sizes dropped off a cliff after i lost 2 colonists in a desperate firefight halfway during reactor launch sequence. See debug graph
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: Tynan on August 17, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Other faction towns always have advanced components, as do several types of traders. There's no randomness in it.
I recently went to an outlander town to trade with them and they only had regular components, so I'll assume that is just a bug then.
In Beta 18 and before, centipedes with heavy charge blasters would rarely hit a pawn. In 0.19, a single charge is enough to kill/down one or more pawns and they spawn like 4 minimum playing on Cassandra rough with a total wealth of 420k. They went from easy and annoying to almost impossible and even more annoying.
Is there a way to delete a worldmap quest?
Ive got a incap refugee quest, that is a relation to one of my colonists, but the only edge of the map that the game thinks is a "reachable exit" is the side that is blocked completely with mountains. I literally cannot send out caravans unless I dig a tunnel through the mountain. (I tested this with the debug destroy tool)
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on August 17, 2018, 07:20:47 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 17, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Other faction towns always have advanced components, as do several types of traders. There's no randomness in it.
I recently went to an outlander town to trade with them and they only had regular components, so I'll assume that is just a bug then.
Well damn, gonna have to look into that!
I've found an annoyance in my latest game -
I've got a "Gourmand" pawn, and every single night I get the "STARVATION!" warning pop up simple because they get hungrier than everyone else. It's pretty bloody annoying.
Quote from: MajorFordson on August 17, 2018, 08:26:37 PM
I've found an annoyance in my latest game -
I've got a "Gourmand" pawn, and every single night I get the "STARVATION!" warning pop up simple because they get hungrier than everyone else. It's pretty bloody annoying.
Yeah I get that on non-gourmands frequently enough for it to be annoying.
YOU'RE HUNGRY NOT STARVING YOU TWIT.
Just for lols:
I've recently started a new colony in build 19.1996 & had an infestation spawn in nearby deep water (also undermountain). What's amusing is the 'splotch' sound they generate (presumably while spawning more jelly etc)
OK, I'm 7 years old, but how about making this specific sound apply to pawns suffering from food poisoning instead? More appropriate (& much more amusing) IMO.. :)
Quote from: whitebunny on August 17, 2018, 04:37:26 PM
I can't agree more. It helps you get involved into trading and/or getting out of your comfort zone at a point where you're supposed to have a good infrastructure in place and things are starting to get stale.
I have a real large background experience in caravanning and raiding outposts on a roll. But traveling is still prematurely designed. Look at what others say about it, like this:
Quote from: Chicken Breast on August 17, 2018, 12:43:50 PM
I do appreciate this being pointed out by someone, just because I have similar thoughts about the enemy/rival/NPC bases being lacking. For one, I'd like there to be more factions in general. For two, why not have themed or specialized colonies? Bulk goods trading colonies would obviously have the ability to produce bulk resources, and that should show. Additionally, pirate traders and other types should come from colonies that have at least some evidence that they produce these things or have the ability to capture others, etc.
Caravanning still has many problems that need to be addressed as opposed to thinking that people don't go outside out of fear.
1.- Loading:
It is still overwhelmingly annoying how long it takes, this applies the same for transport pod loading by the way. If for instance, I want to send 2000 or 3000 units of corn... a single pawn can spend up to three days hauling and stress will cause the pawn to get downed and everything loaded explodes out. (Look at the screenshot of 14th of Septober 5504 in which all loaded items blow out https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41782.msg426442#msg426442)
I was thinking of two alternative solutions:
A) Increase stack value from 75 to 200 units maybe?
B) We only have "Caravan Spot" to select where pawns and pack animals shall gather...but we need an "Exclusive Caravan stockpile zone" in which we create a list of items we want to take (must contain a refrigeration system on its own) and pawns automatically place wanted items there from your main storage and such items are not taken back to your main storage.
For instance, one of the main problems with B19 is that pawns automatically haul items of a same kind in order to complete stacks to their maximum capacity, but if two characters are performing the same action with the same item, they both fight each other as their targeted stack gets taken by the other.
An exclusive zone for caravan items and a large stack value would really haste Caravanning instead of hating Caravanning.
2.- Mood penalty is nonsense:
When we get raids... do the enemies arrive with mental breaks as our pawns do? No. Why? Because these dudes literally don't travel...they just spawn from your map border. Does their colony of origin suffer any penalties when they lose 30+ members? No. Why? Because they literally don't belong anywhere. Which takes me to point number three.
3.- When an enemy raid is decimated, there's no rival outpost that "suffers" their loses. So, to make the game complete. We "players" should get a notification of "from which outpost" they came, so their loss in numbers shall make our attack easier.
4.- I said this many times before spreader into other threads already. When we finally conquer an enemy outpost. I want to be able to use their facilities permanently, unless I personally choose to destroy/deconstruct something. I don't like it when the game automatically kicks a player out to the world map again and barrens the whole tile with a new map generation. Basically, every outpost I conquest, I want to turn into an outpost of my own faction, or choose to raze it. I don't need to control it myself. It could just turn into a "puppet" managed colony of sorts.
This would certainly add "the" real "DEPTH" Rim World is currently missing for the last third of the game were it all turns into boredom. And knowing how painfully boring is the last part of the game... it really is annoying to find "delays" of this nature...lacking key materials when the fun in the game starts to die. Not to mention that temporal maps no longer spawn with minerals.
5.- Caravan requests/ Item stash opportunities:
Have you noticed how the other factions can literally ask you for
specific items? Why can't we?
Basically there's a lot of things version 1.0 needs to work on...but instead... Tynan focused on QoLs... and Predator attack warnings... (SIGH x10) As a pure Vanilla player myself...I tell you these past 6 months wait...didnt brought me anything. Tynan needs to fill up the last third of the game that nobody wants to play. In the meantime, make ship launching more easy.
I just had a lot of these problems. I sent 4 people and a dog out to rescue a colonists family member (grr) and there was only 1 bad guy and 2 turrets...
I almost lost everyone because after killing the one guy, almost evryone went on a break spree, which lead to starvation and since my only person who could doctor was also busy being broken I couldn't patch up the one other guy who took a few hits. thankfully it wasn't bad enough to bleed out.
I ended up having to spend way to long at that site, ate all my food, had to murder the local wildlife, build a fire, make new meals, etc, etc etc. ALL FOR A TERRIBLE PAWN, and due to a SINGLE BAD GUY.
After dealing with that I sent my guys over to a loot stash that was close to it for a legendary SMG and masterwork animal bed guarded by 2 sleeping mechanoids. Thankfully I was able to sneak around to the other side of the building and loot the stuff without them even waking up. As I got near the edge of the map to leave 2 guys broke again....
Barely got them home as they starved. Ugh.
I also of course got raided while my guys were out. A psychic ship dropped right inside my walls with a centipede, 2 lancers and 2 scythers. The second I killed the scythers and was working on the centipede I got a second raid of Drop pods right inside my base and the people I didn't take on the caravan were the ones who of course were LESS skilled in fighting and generally higher risk pawns. No one died but I lost a lot of stuff, had a lot of wounds. A large amount of eyes got burned or lost. Infection almost took out 2 people. The drop pods contained about 14 people, 5 of which had incindiary launchers. ;/
I'm playing Cassandra on rough. At about 80k wealth at that point.
Two minor notes:
* In my game, I had two pawns lose a finger each out of bite attacks while engaging in social fights. It really takes a lot for a player to keep pawns as intact as possible...only to waste all efforts in an automated combat.
* I'm starting to deep drill. For simplicity, when we click on the Ground-penetrating scanner, can you add to the UI a Deep Drill icon next, so as to shortcut: Unselect Gr Pen Scan to get the main UI, select Production and click on Deep Drill, and skip two unnecessary clicks? Basically, move Deep Drill within the scanner branch.
Quote from: Tynan on August 17, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Well damn, gonna have to look into that!
Sorry if this looks spammy but I'm commenting as I play, the following pictures will be part of my Story but in the meantime... I just got a game generated Bulk Goods trader, as in I didn't call them myself. Their pack animals carry no Advanced Components while I'm on day 316.
(https://i.imgur.com/z1ZKBv0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/tityxyS.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/7B8kj5c.png)
My colonist with the Psychopath trait is being effected negatively by wearing tainted gear. I've also noticed a debuff when she witnesses a corpse (skeleton fully decomposed on the surface). The strange part is that it doesn't happen all the time, which leads me to believe this is not intended.
Also noticed- a bulk goods trader visited, I bought and sold a few things, and it seems the food and items they were suppose to take were randomly dropped around my base inside & out after the transaction, and left for me to recollect as they walked off screen to continue their caravan.
Also completely unrelated but, would it be possible to get a "remove all work check marks" button? Sometimes I like to reset my colonists entire schedule and being able to wipe the board quickly would be a nice addition.
I keep having this issue where I capture prisoners and they are getting tended to and then auto-released even though I never changed their prisoner tab stuff to release. I lost about 5 prisoners in a row this way. I am getting the faction points as if I released them. It's very strange.
The prison is definitely sealed up with many layers of walls around it, doors not held open or anything, and is inside my base in a mountain.
No mods.
I'm having two additional problems:
* When electrical devices break, like the Wind Turbine, I get no notification letter. I can however, witness how my builders repair them and the mechanisms showing the break red spark.
* Deadfall traps are disappearing after being triggered once... even by a rat...
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on August 18, 2018, 02:39:29 AM
* Deadfall traps are disappearing after being triggered once... even by a rat...
Are they set to auto-rebuild? It's supposed to be on by default, at least it used to be. I did a run earlier and my pawn rebuilt them.
Note the fact that they go away instead of needing "reset" is not a bug, it's part of the game now.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on August 18, 2018, 02:39:29 AM
I'm having two additional problems:
* When electrical devices break, like the Wind Turbine, I get no notification letter. I can however, witness how my builders repair them and the mechanisms showing the break red spark.
* Deadfall traps are disappearing after being triggered once... even by a rat...
Those are intended I think. I know that the notification for a machine breakdown was removed, and it does kinda annoy me as I like to keep tabs on how much components are siphoned out that way.
Deadfall traps have been changed to single-use, so tgey have to be rebuilt after triggering.
We have changelog on new build? ???
I noticed very frequent body part losses due to social fights. Could this be reduced to more bruising and less ripping? I mean it's bad enough that the dudes have to heal afterwards, but replacing lost limps caused by bad personality just sucks ;)
[attachment deleted due to age]
I've been doing a lot of caravaning in 1.0, and I think a large part of the problem with caravans and mood breaks is the way recreation is handled.
You can get a pawn from 0 to 30% recreation in less than a hour just on a horseshoe pin when they're on a map. Even a dirt poor colony can have 4 recreation types from solitary, social, dexterity and cerebral with just a table, horseshoe pin, and chess table. So if you settle and make a brand new map you can easily max any pawns recreation in an hour or two, tops.
When they're in a caravan it's hard locked to 8% recreation gain per hour when the caravan is not moving, and no gain when it is. It takes around 6 hours to get a pawn in a caravan at 0 tolerance back up to 30% recreation while the caravan is paused. On paper it should only take 4 hours since you gain 8%, but you don't actually gain 8% per hour. Even when the caravan is not moving, pawns recreation still drains at a constant rate. So that 8% gain is not an 8% gain because you're losing recreation over time. If you gain 8% an hour but lose 1% an hour, then you're gaining 7% per hour, not 8.
On top of that, the only recreation type pawns can get in a caravan is Solitary if they're alone or and social and solitary if they're not. This means pawns quickly gain tolerance to those recreation types, very quickly reducing the hourly gain. If the pawn is alone it's pretty much impossible to keep recreation levels high. With two or more you get 2 recreation types and it's more manageable but still much slower than on a map.
All of these problems are manageable... but extremely tedious to deal with and involve a lot of micromanagement. Two things that would help would be to make recreation gain on paused caravans good enough to actually hit high levels of recreation if the caravan is paused long enough, and add an option to travel to the edge of a map and then rest, so that players can have their pawns can enter the map rested and without recreation penalties.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on August 18, 2018, 09:16:49 AM
I've been doing a lot of caravaning in 1.0, and I think a large part of the problem with caravans and mood breaks is the way recreation is handled.
You can get a pawn from 0 to 30% recreation in less than a hour just on a horseshoe pin when they're on a map. Even a dirt poor colony can have 4 recreation types from solitary, social, dexterity and cerebral with just a table, horseshoe pin, and chess table. So if you settle and make a brand new map you can easily max any pawns recreation in an hour or two, tops.
When they're in a caravan it's hard locked to 8% recreation gain per hour when the caravan is not moving, and no gain when it is. It takes around 6 hours to get a pawn in a caravan at 0 tolerance back up to 30% recreation while the caravan is paused. On paper it should only take 4 hours since you gain 8%, but you don't actually gain 8% per hour. Even when the caravan is not moving, pawns recreation still drains at a constant rate. So that 8% gain is not an 8% gain because you're losing recreation over time. If you gain 8% an hour but lose 1% an hour, then you're gaining 7% per hour, not 8.
On top of that, the only recreation type pawns can get in a caravan is Solitary if they're alone or social if they're not. This means pawns quickly gain tolerance to that one recreation type, very quickly reducing the hourly gain. The end result is even if you formed the caravan at 0% tolerance to that type of recreation eventually you'll hit 50% and stop being able to gain recreation at all. Randy help you if you started the caravan at 30-40% tolerance to begin with.
All of these problems are manageable... but extremely tedious to deal with and involve a lot of micromanagement. Two things that would help would be to make recreation gain on paused caravans good enough to actually hit high levels of recreation if the caravan is paused long enough, and add an option to travel to the edge of a map and then rest, so that players can have their pawns can enter the map rested and without recreation penalties.
You have forget the chemical recreation. Bring psychoid tea, beer, chocolate or smokeleaf along with the appropriate drug schedule to ensure a fun trip for your colonist holidays ;D
Quote from: khun_poo on August 18, 2018, 09:30:24 AM
You have forget the chemical recreation. Bring psychoid tea, beer, chocolate or smokeleaf along with the appropriate drug schedule to ensure a fun trip for your colonist holidays ;D
That's actually a really good idea, although I wouldn't use smokeleaf and it would slow the caravan down. The rest of it would work, though.
Usually I do not argue with realism as my argument, but recreation shouldn't be an issue when caravaning. I mean it's a journey, with nature and stuff. That's recreation in itself. At least the recreation loss rate should be really low.
Part of why caravans are tedious to use is because you have to think about so many things. Food, especially food that doesn't rot, animal feed if they can't graze, sleeping bags, taking the right colonists for the job, the right amount, leaving the base not undefended, making sure the caravan isn't too slow due to a variety of reasons - and then recreation? Wouldn't really hurt cutting that out, simply from a gameplay perspective.
For caravan loading, does simply putting the caravan loading spot adjacent to the stockpile help? If you're loading at a long distance it will indeed be harder.
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
My usually stuff I always have on every caravan in any mission is...
- Food,
mostly pemmican. Packaged food is the best though since it give mood buff.
- Sleep bag,
enough for your people. Plus 1 or 2 if you're gonna rescue or captive someone.
- Medicine,
to make sure you won't get infected wound.
- Important drugs,
For addicted and schedule. I usually set drug policy that order every colonist to always carry 3-4 psychoid tea and penoxycyline. So I don't concern too much about it when load caravan unless I'm going on a long journey.
Next is the stuff for the quest, hay for my elephant if I have to travel on winter, shock lance for capturing some super OP raider on the way et cetera.
I think caravan loading time is not that bad. Ever since the update that make caravan animal following the colonist make it a lot better. By the way, I still set all other colonist hauling priority to 1 out of old habit while still in loading stage though :D.
Caravan loading works great for me, but sometimes you'll forget something. Normally you can right-click on the missed item and select "add to the caravan", but sometimes this button is greyed out even if there is still place.
Also, when planning a caravan on the "Form caravan" screen, sometimes you need to check something in your colony and you have to close that screen. All your planning gets lost after that, which is really frustrating.
Sometimes you need to add an item to the caravan after it has already left but still near the colony. You can't do it right now without reforming the caravan, which is kind of sad.
I got one colonist out with my ship a few weeks and a couple of updates back, assuming the ship cost hasn't changed since then here's my feedback.
It seemed like the main cost of the ship was in labour not in resources, (what was it, 36 advanced components? That was a whole lot of work, even for my lvl 17 crafter working all day). Because of the time it takes to build so many Adv components I started the ship escape sequence before I had all my ship parts built, and managed to finish the last component of it on the same day that the reactor finished charging. All in all I felt the ship cost, time to charge and final sequence are pretty well tuned, challenging but not too hard.
Also I've had a similar experience with caravan recreation and stress as the others in this thread, I feel like either caravan needs to provide a decent amount of recreation, or maybe just apply a flat mood bonus, 'On the Road +5' or something of that sort.
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
I think slightly too long personally, but might be ok. Certainly not too short
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
For caravan loading, does simply putting the caravan loading spot adjacent to the stockpile help? If you're loading at a long distance it will indeed be harder.
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
Caravan loading would be better if pawns assigned to haul would help more, I know they help right now but some times you see one single guy loading stuff to caravans while others just wander around, save with drop pods, there are some mods that greatly improve caravan loading for B18 and I remember them being better than what it's right now
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
Save file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QTgCbaPPPnIYdp_7eDuG8SMi086Llaqd
Story: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41782.msg411610#msg411610
I paused my game in a very bad time to share to the public, this is because I found a game bug. The background is that I'm currently playing dual colony. I have many experiences with triple colonies so I'm very familiar with handling multiple colonies. But I found a problem.
I got a manhunter pack event in my First Colony and the Second Colony got a Crashed Ship Part. So I basically set all pawns and animals to "refugee" areas such as "Animal SAFE" and "HOME". Knowing that 1stColony was... safe... I went on to play in the 2ndColony and handle the mechanoids. While I was combating the robots, I got warning of trouble in 1C and I also noticed the flee icon over the colony bar. So, by the time I went back to check, several manhunter creatures are already inside my base... which shouldn't have really happened. Then, since I couldn't understand why everything was a mess there, I decided to write you a report in the bugs section (but went have dinner and watched a movie, so now I came back to the computer and was planning to post a bug report when I saw your comment here). I can either play this out as it is or just save scum, but in all honestly gamer heart this is so exciting moment of dual challenges that I don't feel like reloading. But the thing is... look at the character named "Zug", he is set to "HOME" zone, the home zoning is carefully painted on my map, but... "PATHING" is wrong and making him to go outside... I am currently imagining that "Yakov" tried to do the same thing and was "seen" by the beasts. Note that, the 4 forbidden doors were made so only after I realized chaos had stormed my 1C but not before I went to fight at 2C, so there was "no" way that this was my mistake. If this is too much happening to analyze my situation, I can share autosaves instead but...
Feedback on the cost of the ship and assemblage estimation time... I was asking the same question to myself.
* I don't have Plasteel.
* I don't have Gold.
* I can get more steel and components for sure, and just started Deep Drilling. Have in mind that this save game I have been playing since the very first day you opened the unstable v1.0, which means many technologies had to be re-researched more like thrice, so tech development had its backdowns.
I am also updating the wiki as my game progresses.
https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
So I don't have the exact number of materials needed to fully load a Space Ship yet. My play style has always been to gather all the materials first and then start building all together. So I'm not starting yet. Also, this is my first game ever that I will be facing the 15 days of wave attacks, so it's likely that I will be building a fortress within another fortress and stockpiling a full season of food before I activate the engine. But...
Since I don't have the materials...the preview looks like it will be a never ending story. That is without saying that I barely have 3 Advanced Components. I plan to launch my ship from 1C, so 2C will only be supplying the materials and then everybody will transport pod back to 1C.
In dual colony game... I have had very little Plasteel. I used them all up with Advanced Helmets and some Mini-turrets. But if you look carefully at both colonies... I'm a minimalistic player (and in Real Life too), I don't bother with making lavish/sumptuous rooms. So I don't feel like I wasted Plasteel nor Gold into building unnecessary items for the sake of wealth show off to the RW Community see how great I am...LOL...
Both maps are standard size and small hills. I usually play Large Hills and never Mountain bases. But it looks like I will never finish building the ship.
Considering that we are also addressing the issue of Caravanning... the removal of minerals from temporary maps felt like you amputated us.
I don't know where am I going to get all the requiring materials to launch so many people, to the point that launching just one pawn to consider it game over seems more humanly reasonable... and this statements comes from a very hardcore player... Normally I should be stern enough to go through until the end...
But, I don't know you and your design goal, but as a player I don't feel like playing more than a full in game year (EDIT: since the start of the last third of the game and not talking of time from the beginning itself) to assemble and launch the ship... I don't see myself waiting 5 in game years to finish the game... And then...in my current status... I don't think 5 years would be anywhere near halfway to finish the entire ship.
I am now asking myself where will I get all the Plasteel and Gold to keep on going... without even thinking yet that I will need them to craft who know how many Advanced Components... which was the start of the latest pages within this thread... so I'm back again at the beginning...
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
The last game I played and finished I thought it was just fine. Getting resources didn't take absurdly long whilst still maintaining my base.
I layed out the blueprint and piece by piece put it together when I had spare resources while still creating/buying bionic parts to keep my colonists healthy/superior.
I finished around day 450 iirc, never rushed anything and (little off topic) only managed my colony wealth by launching gifts to keep relations up.
I never had a killbox but abused door peeking and having turrets and eventually shield bubble pawn tank most of the damage.
This all was on a tribal start, temperate forest, permanent
winter summer, cassandra rough, no mods game in which I only lost 3 pawns and launched 16 into space.
I can't compare with b18 since I never built a ship before the recent unstable branch.
Cheers :)
edit: changed winter to summer
I will make a longer post later when I want to.
But we are Tribe Pride a 10 year old tribal colony
We have around a 100 dromedaries and a few alpaca's caravaning around the world.
Keeping a stockpile close with all the stuff you want with you works well, my caravans are filled up in no time. Offloading is even more fun, I also keep a caravan outside my town with stuff that is regularly used, that helps a lot.
Altough I make smaller caravans that haul survival meals to a bigger caravan, they resupply other caravans, way faster
For approaching a site, I let a strike team rest before attacking, then in the morning I roll in with the furniture. I check for traps, deal with any dangers and then proceed with installing stuff as fast as possible and make a base for 2 colonist. One colonist mines and deconstructs everything, the other cooks simple meals and packaged survival meals, from berries and local wildlife.
Strike team moves to next target and meets up with another caravan full with furniture and survival meals, Other caravans haul stuff back to base
This works well on mining sites where you can set up a camping site.
Tribe Pride has been hauling megascreen televisions trough the desert, so much fun.
Another thing I very much like are the legendary and masterwork weapons, I have a 77 old granny killing dozens of raiders with her legendary heavy smg.
population intent is broken or something, stuck with 4 people on day 150 randy merciless, prisoners with 60++ resistance who berserk mindbreak constantly and blow granite doors with bare hands with only option to kill them, as there are no options to keep them happy, they break anyway thx to merciless permanent -10.
not ever single slaver caravan for 150 days.
absolutely empty colony without any valueble resources, ever without food, still colonists think that place is quite rich and they should demand luxury treatment.
also looks like wild animals are counted toward colony wealth.
for some reason, wealth constantly creep, ever if i do nothing, it steady increasing, especially strange to see constant increase of building value when i build completely nothing.
struggle ended on day 157 with tripple pirate sapper raid of 3*8 vs just 4 colonists, shortly after drafting one of colonist broke and wander outside, just to be killed, after his death, two more broke, resulted 24vs1 combat, that ended shorty.
man in black got headshot as soon as come in range, gg no re.
when everyone down, remaining raiders decided to burn everything that burns and break only table in colony just for lulz.
only remaining surviror is "wild" doctor with withwarl, i decided to just arrest him as i was fed up with his mindbreaks, he got 80 diff and 20 res, due to solid -35 resistance dropped by 0.1 per day, best mindbreak ever, ever better then plague.
he berserked and got out of cell after raiders are gone.
probably game should not continue to throw more and more worldmap quests if player ignore them, personally i do not like "caravan" stuff, well, i hate it.
every time i see "give 5 hats and we give legendary power armor in return" i just want to patch this unfair and unbalanced feature out.
running caravan around should not be mandatory for progress and absurdly rewarding compared to everything else in game.
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
Prefacing all this feedback with the general info.
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest Small Hills
Commitment mode: Yes
Colony age (days): 261
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8
Complete mod list: Core
Colony after the ship launch:
colony (https://i.imgur.com/T7qvSjb.jpg)
Graphs/Stats:
graph (https://i.imgur.com/EczGWN7.png)
statistics (https://i.imgur.com/ljCewTt.png)
I just finished a ship run today, and in comparison to B18 the ship construction does take longer due to the extra 'special' materials needed. I managed to get off the planet in 261 days, but that also included some luck with high-tier crafters/miners to actually get the ore quickly and turn it into the required parts. The caskets are easily the longest part though, since you typically want to get everyone off the Rim and at that point you're probably running a dozen plus colonists.
On the topic of the ship in general, I love the defense. Like, I don't think I've had that much fun with vanilla combat since my early days with this game in A6-A7. The constant adjustments, resource and pawn management I had to balance out while dealing with daily multiple raids was probably the best send-off I could want for the colony. I was to a point where I was forced to draw back while inside my own colony and had 3 colonists just lobbing grenades down the hall to try and force the tribal horde back into retreating while my front-line of 2 melee guys just kept hacking away at the ones that managed to push past the grenades. The constant shuffling of my turret front-line to the new choke points created by sappers made even more desperate by the fact mechanoids just decided to drop in while pirates with doomsday launchers are already ruining my front-line, winning said fight, then proceeding to shove everyone into the ship before the next wave can come was fantastic. Also Randy kept sending my cargo pods full of corn and only corn, don't know exactly why but the slag was useful to keep the turrets armed at least.
This game seriously needs more of these challenge events, something to give a stagnating player a goal to achieve. I understand that something like that is out of the range for this update, but I really hope the future has more to come involving these kinds of 'test your skill' events.
Storyteller: Randy Random
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: arid shrub lands
Commitment mode: No
Colony age (days): around 60
I settled near a friendly town and decided to check out the trading during this playtrough, it was around 0.4 days of travelling to it. What I noticed was that even when I had some good relations with them (60+ , altho not allies) i could not let my pawns sleep there :(. This let to some debuffs because I forgot to take some bedrolls with me.
I also tried doing some quests, which i feel like are worth tryiing now, however during one of the fights my only doctor got an infection, even though I took some proper medicine with me i was unable to safe him. It would be nice if i could run to another town and request medical assistance there. :(
Oh well, this game is awesome anyways, cheers
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
For caravan loading, does simply putting the caravan loading spot adjacent to the stockpile help? If you're loading at a long distance it will indeed be harder.
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest/Mountaineous
Commitment mode: Yes
Colony age (days): 680 something
Hours played in the last 2 days: 2
Complete mod list: Conduit Deconstruct
For me the ship cost was definitely expensive and involved using the long-rang scanner, caravanning and trading to get all of the necessary supplies. It was at least a season's worth of work to get it done. That being said it felt balanced - not too hard considering it's likely the last big thing you'll have to build.
Caravan spot works fine I guess but I found making an animal zone more effective.
Also, I just wanted to add that I had an infestation last night after the most recent update, which I read now includes the value of your colonists bionic parts as part of colony wealth. I'm not much for the wealth metagame so many are obsessed with, but I just gotta say that I was very caught off guard by how big it was. Maybe it wouldn't have been so unexpected had that wealth been included all along, but it was seriously unexpected and felt overwhelming compared to anything I'd had to deal with so far in this campaign.
Quote from: spidermonk on August 18, 2018, 11:34:00 AM
Caravan loading works great for me, but sometimes you'll forget something. Normally you can right-click on the missed item and select "add to the caravan", but sometimes this button is greyed out even if there is still place.
Also, when planning a caravan on the "Form caravan" screen, sometimes you need to check something in your colony and you have to close that screen. All your planning gets lost after that, which is really frustrating.
Sometimes you need to add an item to the caravan after it has already left but still near the colony. You can't do it right now without reforming the caravan, which is kind of sad.
I would like to add that all of these frustrations happen with transport pods too and it'd be nice to see a fix.
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
I always start out thinking I'm going to rescue my peeps and the pets. Then once I get to the stage I have everything built but the pods, I just lose interest and just build a couple. The 15 days of pain makes it even less interested in hanging around a moment longer than I need to. I imagine instead of rescuing my colony that they're just going for help and everyone will be fine until they get back.
In previous playthrus Uranium was slowing down my ship building progress. This playthru (Cassanda Classic Medium) I'm flush on Uranium but way short on Plasteel and deep drilling isn't very rewarding for me. I'm pretty sure my game predates changes to resource distribution and/or drilling so I'm planning on a new game pretty soon. (I've got about 3.5 days left warming up my engine.)
In answer to your question, I think I would prefer a passenger module that held multiple people and was more inline in terms of cost with the other ship parts than the individual sardine cans which feel both expensive and inadequate.
Quote from: Starbug3D on August 18, 2018, 02:47:34 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
I always start out thinking I'm going to rescue my peeps and the pets. Then once I get to the stage I have everything built but the pods, I just lose interest and just build a couple. The 15 days of pain makes it even less interested in hanging around a moment longer than I need to. I imagine instead of rescuing my colony that they're just going for help and everyone will be fine until they get back.
I've never finished a single game, and this right here is the only thing the game is personally lacking for me, a true end goal that isn't the ship or just reaching some piece of land.
I'll admit to have logged 1400 hours on this game already and that i find so much joy just starting a new game with new settings every time things get boring; but the addition of some compelling, interesting endgame optional or not so optional challenges would put the game in a complete new level in my mind.
I guess what i'm trying to say is i'd like to see more endgame content and i'm aware this should be in suggestions but there you go, sorry =)
Thanks for all your hard work Tynan and team btw.
Had my first ever caravan rescue party go out on a mission.
It was a bit of a fiasco, I ended up having to camp on the site after freeing the prisoner. Had three pawns that needed to rest for a few days to heal their wounds, luckily there was ripe food to be foraged on the map. There was an enemy I didn't kill on the other side of the prison cell the whole time who didn't seem interested in doing anything once they ran out of mortar shells, which was odd.
I think for the sake of simplicity and ease-of-use pawns need a massive mood buff, or make mood irrelevant, whilst caravaning. And when performing a raid too. That part of the game is supposed to be the chance for it to feel like a more tactical action game rather than colony management.
In other news - blighted crops is still dang irritating and not-fun. My crops got blighted whilst all my people were on the rescue mission, and when I got home every field was blighted. Fair enough, I thought, I'll just disallow sowing and wait for all the crops to die to save the effort of clearing it all. But that didn't happen. So blight killing the plant within two days would be nice. (or being replaced entirely by a more interesting, not-spot-and-click-lots event would be nice too, like some megascarabs spawning to attack your crops or something)
Re; Endgame content - It'd be nice to see a "settled" endgame situation, where the player has to meet certain criteria to count as a fully fledged new town, instead of building a ship. I'm sure mods will cover it at some point, but imagine being able to focus your town on providing an inn for caravans or a weapons manufacturer etc etc
Hey Tynan,
Not a hardcore player, currently working through the latest build on Pheobe rough and really enjoying my time.
Please can you add an option to choose where items purchased from orbital traders will land? currently i'm playing a map where they always land (without failure) in the middle of my freezers vent square. Please see my screenshot for an example for this space..
https://gyazo.com/dccd41b7a33bebfeb1a218ef695a6a2f
See those two coolers on the south side venting heat out of my freezers? If i buy more then one or two items one lands in that square every damn time requiring a quick deconstruction, haul and reconstruction to fix. its uncanny!
Love the game, keep up the good work!
Much faithfully,
Neonings, UK.
Quote from: neonings on August 18, 2018, 08:20:54 PM
Hey Tynan,
Not a hardcore player, currently working through the latest build on Pheobe rough and really enjoying my time.
Please can you add an option to choose where items purchased from orbital traders will land? currently i'm playing a map where they always land (without failure) in the middle of my freezers vent square. Please see my screenshot for an example for this space..
https://gyazo.com/dccd41b7a33bebfeb1a218ef695a6a2f
See those two coolers on the south side venting heat out of my freezers? If i buy more then one or two items one lands in that square every damn time requiring a quick deconstruction, haul and reconstruction to fix. its uncanny!
Love the game, keep up the good work!
Much faithfully,
Neonings, UK.
I *think* you can build a second trader antenna outside where you want stuff to land and it should aim at that. I only just started doing this (current base built into a mountain) and it appears to be working for me.
Fix needed:
* Friendlies drop pod landed on top of my Hospital.
* The drop pods crushed one of my "Bonded" pets.
* The crushed pet was nonetheless a boomrat, creating a fire hazard inside my mini hospital.
(https://i.imgur.com/MUh9BAh.png)
I'm unhappy, somebody send me a cookie.
Dear tynan.
I don't know if i should post this in the general discussion. But your ranged pawns can you fire in minimum range to non-manhunter animals and nearby objects including friendlies and your own colonists. Including throwing a grenade under your feet in minimum range.
However it works fine when aganist a hostile raider. The shooter stops shooting and starts meleeing and shooting the melee attack would still revert to meleeing or idling if the attacker is missing alot. Even trying to shoot the down atttacker still requires the shooter to get out of his minimum range to fire.
It might not be a huge problem or big deal but it can be a bit silly if the grenadier throws a grenade under his feet but i don't know if i should post this in the bugs section or in here. I don't know if this is an oversight.
(https://i.imgur.com/qtOag9N.png?1)
Blitz shoots his own buddy with his charge rifle in Min-range. Note the wall in blitz north was shot by his charge rifle in min-range as well.
Your fan, Kirby~
In the workshop you should put all 1.0 mods into the 0.19 category and hide the 1.0 category. Otherwise it will be a mess when 1.0 gets out.
Quote from: Kirby23590 on August 19, 2018, 03:17:27 AM
Dear tynan.
I don't know if i should post this in the general discussion. But your ranged pawns can you fire in minimum range to non-manhunter animals and nearby objects including friendlies and your own colonists. Including throwing a grenade under your feet in minimum range.
However it works fine when aganist a hostile raider. The shooter stops shooting and starts meleeing and shooting the melee attack would still revert to meleeing or idling if the attacker is missing alot. Even trying to shoot the down atttacker still requires the shooter to get out of his minimum range to fire.
It might not be a huge problem or big deal but it can be a bit silly if the grenadier throws a grenade under his feet but i don't know if i should post this in the bugs section or in here. I don't know if this is an oversight.
I don't really understand what you're saying. Can you answer:
1. What happened?
2. What did you expect to happen?
3. How can I reproduce the issue?
Thanks.
Quick question: is it intended for social fights to be possible while pawns are drafted and actively in combat? Had one while fighting a manhunting group of polar bears due to one pawn slighting the other.
Quote from: Starbug3D on August 18, 2018, 02:47:34 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
I always start out thinking I'm going to rescue my peeps and the pets. Then once I get to the stage I have everything built but the pods, I just lose interest and just build a couple. The 15 days of pain makes it even less interested in hanging around a moment longer than I need to. I imagine instead of rescuing my colony that they're just going for help and everyone will be fine until they get back.
In previous playthrus Uranium was slowing down my ship building progress. This playthru (Cassanda Classic Medium) I'm flush on Uranium but way short on Plasteel and deep drilling isn't very rewarding for me. I'm pretty sure my game predates changes to resource distribution and/or drilling so I'm planning on a new game pretty soon. (I've got about 3.5 days left warming up my engine.)
In answer to your question, I think I would prefer a passenger module that held multiple people and was more inline in terms of cost with the other ship parts than the individual sardine cans which feel both expensive and inadequate.
This exactly!!! The annoyance of having to build all the separate caskets is the one problem I have with the cost and time involved with constructing the escape ship. Not only does it take a very long time to create the materials (mainly the components), but in my opinion they cost a bit too much.
For example if I am trying to do a minimal number of pawns, 12 caskets is probably the least amount I need to get them off the planet. That requires a total of 161 components and 97 advanced components (for the whole ship). Even with 2 benches, that is a lot of time.
And that doesn't include the cost and time for the weapons and armor required for the security for the reactor starting sequence. It just seems to be a little much.
+1 for ship build feels grindy. Agree it doesn't matter if the process is slow or quick, because there are no unique challenges during that time.
The 15 day startup raids are kinda interesting due to difficulty, but even then, they are the same kind of raids that the player has already repeatedly faced. The unique "boss battle" that the player overcomes is whatever the AI core quest was, which may be as simple as fetching the core without opposition. Once you have the AI core, the game is effectively won, but you need to grind for a few months, to build the ship, to see the win screen. Each colonist that dies in that time just means one less crypto casket to build. Usually I just start a new game instead.
I know it's not likely, but my only big wish is for a unique endgame challenge. Idea:
Each major ship part requires a unique component that is only attainable from quests, or sacking pirate bases. Pirate bases respawn in a random location if destroyed. The player always has something interesting to do while building the ship (and finally a reason to carry out offensive raids).
Would especially be rad if pirate bases were more extensive and tough (like a player colony), so the player could carry out sieges. Even cooler if there were terrestrial mechanoid bases as well. Best thing ever if the bases had unique boss enemies or otherwise unattainable gear or weapons.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Savage
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest [Small Hills i think] -15°C to +15°C
Commitment mode: No
Colony age (days): 8 Years
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10
Complete mod list: No Mod
I am playing this now for four weeks i guess. And i have many opinions but here a thing or two which i found interisting:
- My Doctors don´t fail. I am a... good player i think, i use good medication, good rooms. Everything is neat and clean. But in B18 sometimes everything goes wrong if you harvest an organ or give some implants.
In my 8 Years in this colony i never had this problem. I think it is okay! As long as i think for my pawns. My prision is not my hospital, and i had no problems with harvesting organs (i collect maybe ..10? If you need a kidnee, better take a lung too).
It is better than in the past, where everything is fine (clean, good room, good doc) and after the operation there is a mass and a dead man.
What consernse me is... not one single failure.
-Investations are hell. I savescum them. I have a small hill in which i dig a tunnel and placed fire traps for pirates. But when an infestations happend i have many insects which can eat bullets for breaktfast and evening and dont like to die. Nope. And because of my traps they attack immidiatly. But, they only start after year 5, so there where big every time.
-Why is there a reload button on the traps? As far as i have learned:
Build a trap, if it goes of, its vanished (is gone). Build a trap, set a homezone above it and my workers will rebuild it. Soo.... i never use this button, what would he do?
-Caravaning is a okay, i have ways which are about 1 day long. But as always, i really start when i have drop pods. Drops pods are great, unless you forget one item (like a sleeping bag).
EDIT: And i want to leave a town which is far away by a drop pod. ATM i can build a second settlement, shot supplys there, and destroy it after i leave, but this feels off. I just need a map to build some ramps and not a permanent second colony.
-Recently one of my pawns was attackt by a timber wolf. Not good, he lost both eyes and a hand. It was amazing!
-Mechanoids are a pain. A good pain, but a pain. The armys of them getting bigger, so now my new defence have two walls, because mostly my walls get destructed (i only have sandstone) and so my cover. The centipedies are very strong in my opinion. A little nerv to there weapons could be nice.
-For the ships of the mechanoids my recept is: Anti-Gravitiy trap. Helps alot.
-Food Poisening is to hard. I think, it works okay: The kitchen was dirty. The Cook was bad,perhaps. But its strikes to hard. If someone gets it, i know, he is useless. Even a pawn with another sickness can fight. A pawn with food poisening will come to late.
"Where is Bob?" "He is sick, very sick." "Oh...the black death?" "Naaa...bad potatoes."
-Mining colonies are nice (i think you call the device LRMS). But i mine a great part of the map before i noticed: There is no more steel. Perhaps it could be possible to give player like me a bit extra steel (or other things). It is not satisfying if you have 10 days, mine the middle and search the map and there is...nothing. Now i take 3 days: First day i build my base, second i mine my stone, third i leave.
If i knew there would be 300 or 600 more steel, i would stay 3 days longer.
And i do it with drop pods.
Soooo... i hope my english was readable. This is my greatest problem ^^
All in all i have fun!
One point i forget. In the past my colony was this old because i wanted it. I could leave, if i build a spaceship, but i wanted to stay. Sometimes i leave but mostly staying. Now i am not able to leave. I dont have the ressources at the moment to build a ship (okay, because i want proper defence) and also i need space for it, and on a normal map (forgot to change it at start) this could become a problem. But i will find a solution.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1485810917 (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1485810917)
Quote from: Tynan on August 19, 2018, 12:14:55 PM
1. What happened?
2. What did you expect to happen?
3. How can I reproduce the issue?
Thanks.
1.When giving your pawn that you can control a range weapon. You can shoot in min-range it only works on your guys that you control only and use attack on your own pawn you control or on a building.
2.It's a 100% Accuracy in melee range but a shooter which is my guy i'm controlling is shooting his weapon in melee.
3.It's reproduce-able, bring out two colonists both in melee range. The shooter can fire in melee range inside of min-range shoot his friend.
But it also works in structures/buildings too if the shooter is in melee range including enemy outpost mini-turrets.
I kind of stumbled it by accident by shooting a pawn that's in a mental break going in a fire spree in melee range as i lost my apathy with that pawn who i lost care with. Luckily with manhunters and raiders, including berserk colonists. This works as intended and the shooter doesn't shoot in melee range.
Cassandra Rough
Mountainous 30/60 Temperate
time: 9 years
Commit: No
sometimes it got really annoying that an incident happens just as those caravans come to my base, a manhuntting pack for example, i can either run out to help them, or ignore, running out mean i leave my perfect preparations with traps and all, not running out means a hefty minus into faction relationship -_-
seem like infestations're now not "baited" into dark rooms anymore, but sometimes, it ends up being very annoying when combined with solar flare, once, an infestation spawned in my weapon room, which is barely 'mountainy' at all since it's the very outer room of the base, so now i always have to get the pawns back into "Alert" zone (which is pretty much an 'extended' version of "Roof") whenever solar flare happens
the new wealth system in 0.19.1996-8 really gave me a suprise since it now take into account the bionic parts as the raids' strength jumped after the update, though it's reasonable i suppose, now ppl should stop giving pawns "unneccesary" bionic parts, i guess
i also noticed that, one of my non-chemical interest/fascinated pawn went on a psychoid tea binge, meanwhile one non-gourmand went on food binge :/ is it intended? (no, there wasnt a single "break risk" at those times)
the raid deversity seems off, with most of the raids 're mechanoids, which actually fine by me, since i can get free plasteels, especially raids with lots of centipedes, with the EMP traps & firefoam poppers in place, inferno centipedes 're basically useless, meanwhile heavy blast ones 're simply inaccurate, the only problematic mech raid's mass scyther rush
by 5507, everyone in the colony has already gone full cyborgs except for the sole problematic body purist, it's 5509 now & all i've ever got was 5 resurrect & 2 heal mech serum, of which, 3 resurrect get exchanged in caravan request, 2 heal mech serum used for some nose shatters (eventhough it was intended for torso injuries, the game recognize a lost nose's more 'important' than those brain scars & torso injuries, it's annoying, one way to fix this is smply review the weight/importance of each body part, each injury, or let player choose what they want to fix using the serum)
in any case, with all the healer mech serum used, i've been waiting for ages for another healer mech serum just to fix the cut off hand, scratch torso, & replace the bionic leg of the body purist, it's too rare for an important item, especially for those annoying purists :|
afterall, pawns naturally degrade overtime with all those injuries, now, with the artifical body parts counted into wealth, everytime a pawn get injured, you've to choose between banish them off because you can't fix them up, fix them up with bionic eventhough you may not want to upgrade them than what they already was before the injury, or, suffer the penalty of useless pawn for ages before a healer mech serum comes
Quote from: roben on August 18, 2018, 05:56:06 AM
I noticed very frequent body part losses due to social fights.
It happened again. I did not really play much since the last post and I can't remember another social fight occurring since then.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest/Mountainous
Commitment mode: Yes
Colony age (days): 781
Hours played in the last 2 days: 10
Complete mod list: Conduit Deconstruct
Graphs: https://imgur.com/a/8QBwLnx
I wanted to start by talking about Bicarle a little bit. Bicarle was a crafter at heart. Right from his early days cutting stone, or refining chemfuel, to his slow but steady mastering of the tailoring bench, we knew he was destined for greatness with his hands. Together with his friend Lucy, they were the lifeblood of this colony. They ran the fabrication benches. Bicarle alone assembled almost every piece of clothing this colony wore. They build advanced components, all the bionics, every gun - everything - each with their own dedicated bench - never complaining about the long hours, or underground shelter. They just got it done, masterwork after masterwork. And that's why it was so difficult when an infestation from deep within the mountain and the biggest by far we'd ever seen (and right after the latest update) took his life. So we knew what we had to do - we had to bring him back.
We sent out two caravans. Now, I've sent caravans a lot in this now 781 day colony. But nothing like the search for the resurrection serum for Bicarle. We had a caravan of two out around the mountain range already fulfilling a caravan request, and so they starting walking in the other direction, moving from town to town. And we sent out another transport pod in the opposite direction doing the same. When both caravans started they journeys it was the very beginning of the spring, and they did not return home until winter. They visited almost 40 different towns, going probably more than double the transport pods' longest travel distance. But almost every town had the exact same things, and every town was missing the exact same thing. It wasn't until, while still on these long caravans around the globe, that we got an offer for the exact thing we needed in exchange for some measly thing like a few charge lances or marine armors. It was nothing to our booming colony, and just like that it was ours. The caravans began the long journey home, to get ready for space travel.
I have to say that while this journey was epic and entertaining, maybe in 40 towns you could have a little more variety, and maybe one of them might have a resurrection serum? I get you don't want them to be common, but when a player shows this kind of desperation, it's nice to be rewarded. I see that I was rewarded in the end (although it didn't pan out for us as you'll read), just in kind of a backhanded way. Also, when I say they all had the same things, I mean literally almost the exact same selection at every town, just different versions of the same things. I know we want to be able to depend on being able to buy certain things, but for immersiveness and fun, more variety would be better.
----
And so, we finally started the ship, and I took notes during the whole thing. They are a bit scattered maybe but all the details are there. Notes are followed by comments.
15 days to launch - colonists alive 17 - nothing happened
14 days to launch - colonists alive 17 - sapper raid, 29 people. trying to dig into a spot the have never tried before which doesn't really make any sense at the very edge of the map, a looooooong way from the base. mortars and some turrets and a uranium slug turrent took them out easily.
13 days to launch - colonists alive 17 - "several separate groups" land in pods, 29 scythers. took out my whole south side outer defence, but nobody wounded.
12 days to launch - colonists alive 17 - without enough time to rebuild, "several separate groups" of tribespeople come from three corners of the maps, 35 total. they all act like sappers which really throws me off. a few minor injuries but they were only from social fights that broke out during the raid. I was able to fight the two of the three with just mortors.
11 days to launch - colonists alive 17 - a group of mechanoids land right in my barn, 9 lancers. they kill almost all of my animals - luckily the only bonded animal, Ilarion, made it through with only a shredded heart and body (only! hahaha). I also had a colonist, Lucy, incapable of violence, caught in the crossfire and get an arm shot off. no bionics in stock, so that's just gonna have to be her life now. then with barely any time between, several separate groups of mechanoids are at the edge of the map ready to attack again. 4 inferno cannon centipedes, 7 heavy charge blaster centipedes, 2 scythers and 2 lancers. My south entrance is still decimated so at least they're only coming in from the east and north this time. my outer uranium slug turrents take care of the scythers and lancers, although I lose both in the process. these guys make a mess of things, destroying all kind of outer defences. this is the first attack i fear I might not fully recover from, if only for the damage they caused to my power grid and outer defences.
10 days to launch - colonists alive 17 - 9 centipedes, 9 lancers from the east. Kelly is in a daze in the field so I get Duster to try to sneak around and arrest her to avoid her getting killed. she went berserk when he tried it and she rad ran head on into the lancers. they downed her in the field. Joel is lit on fire from behind sandbags and he gets downed and Onesan gets killed trying to save him. Bicarle goes berserk because he's suffering from Resurrection Sickness. he attacks our Thrumbo and gets himself killed. Meanwhile the Thrumbo attacks the centipedes and gets downed in the field, only to die soonafter from her injuries. The rest of the colony retreats to the inner defences and a group of 49 Tribespeople come in from the south and are preparing to attack . Cristina goes to call for backup. The Eastern Verus Confederation sends 10 people in pods and they get downed by the mechs and flee almost immediately. Krystal is downed and Hurley is asked to rescue her but goes into a daze while carrying her to the hospital. Cristina waits for the Friendlies to get off the map so we can call for additional help (they won't come until the Friendlies are all gone because all our friends are enemies with each other) and then rescues Krystal herself while the rest of the colony tries to kill the rest of the mechanoids from behind sandbags. By now Duster is able to rescue Kelly except that he won't carry her back around the long way he came and the way he wants to go is through the remaining Lancers, who are out ranging and out shooting my colonists. Kelly dies in the fields. The 8 people West Mendos sends are more helpful and are able to go toe to toe with the Lancers and manage to take them out right as the tribespeople begin their assault. The tribespeople barely get through my already tattered defences and we are able to get a moment to breathe.
9 days to launch - colonists alive 14 - I'm just trying to rearm all my turrents, and repair and rebuild what can be rebuilt before the next attack. But then the Mental Breaks begin: Duster Goes Wild, Kaleun goes on a food binge, Joel goes on an alcohol binge, Hutch goes corpse obsession, Kit and Cam both go into a daze, Krystal and Bill both go catatonic, Hurley goes Slaughterer, and Trig literally GIVES UP and leaves the community (this one seems a little silly considering their days away from getting off the planet, but okay, I get it). I'm literally working them to death but it's the only way to get the defences back up.
8 days to launch - colonists alive 12 - But alas, a group of (only) 4 Scythers crash INTO MY HOSPITAL and start tearing things up. With only a few cuts we manage to take them down, although my only two meleers are dead or gone, so it does provide a special kind of challenge for the gunners. We get a caravan request. Bleh. I'm completely out of steel now so even the turrents I've managed to get back up an running, a lot of them are without any power.
7 days to launch - colonists alive 12 - I've been sending transport pods with everything I have left to give as gifts to my Allies to try to keep up the goodwill for when I need them, but since shit hit the fan a few days ago there's been no time to load them. I'm trying to dig enough granite to remake the traps and deep drill enough steel to be able to have some turrent defence. Cristina goes Berserk and gets shot in the kidney for it. I'm sure the dozens and dozens of dead bodies everywhere doesn't help, but there's no time to cremate them all. Another Mech raid, 10 Scythers from the south east. I call for backup immediately because we're still hurting. The help lands in my hospital and destroys the bed with Cristina in it. Not cool. The mechs are too fast to get to the mortars in time so we line up at the sandbags and wait. The Friendlies just barrel right into them - screw sandbag defences they say - but they manage to take all but two of them before fleeing, and before I lose 20 goodwill with them for "attacking Ellis" with my turrent. I manage to save Ellis though. One remaining Scyther chases one of their fleeing colonists all the way to the edge of the map and we have to wait for it to go all the way to the edge and back again. And while we're waiting, more mechanoids drop right on top of us - just 4 scythers this time. Our wealth hasn't dropped that much since the countdown began, but these smaller raids are definitely a welcomed "break."
6 days to launch - colonists alive 12 - Nina goes catatonic. We manage to at least get the dead colonists buried. We get an item stash quest. (maybe these should be disabled upon starting of the ship?) Raid - 3 Scythers land in different places in the fields. No problem. I just restrict everybody to the indoors and let the defences take care of it. I discover Wild Duster has been downed from food poisoning and so we rescue him. Lucy goes corpse obsession.
5 days to launch - colonists alive 12 - a group of 12 sappers are here, taking the barn entrance they seem to love so much. mortar time. with six mortars and 3 layers of granite wall for them to dig through I miss every shot except the last one. They make their way through the barn, across the river and continue digging into the hydro room. I move a couple of turrents there and wait. They are easily defeated and except for when I accidentally order three colonits to shoot Kaleun until she's downed it goes well. Hutch goes Slaughterer again, and I only have one Muffalo and my original Labrador Retriever, Ilarion, left. I planned on taking Ilarion with me and can't afford the bonded animal death at this point so I have Bill Anesthetize her and take her to a crytosleep casket to protect her from Hutch. As soon as I tell Bill to go through with the command (which says reserved by Hutch), Hutch changes which animal he's going to kill, which seems exploitable. theoretically couldn't you continue to interrupt his animal choice until he stopped his mental break? Anyway, I only realize now that Krystal has actually lost a leg days ago, so a peg leg is in order. Ellis, Duster and Kaleun are still in the hospital covered in slag metal and dirt from multiple pod crashes into it. Hurley is sad wandering still and starving.
4 days to launch - colonists alive 12 - Duster rises from his hospital bed, now stripped naked, and Kit is able to tame him with milk. Hurrah! Things are looking up! Kit falls into a Daze. Kaleun goes Wild. Damnit! Things are not looking up. We also can't leave with Kaleun and Bill, because they are the two original living colonists and they're married and despite Bill's shortcomings as a husband, they need to get off of this planet together. We're going to skip the taming and try to arrest her. She doesn't fight back! Duster goes into a Daze because he's still naked. I might have accidentally sent his clothes to an Ally for goodwill. Cristina is downed, I think because of a mangled scar on her brain. And Nina wakes up from her Catatonic State.
3 days to launch - colonists alive 12 - Raid, 23 tribepeople who will prepare for awhile. With only 2 days to go I'm going to use up all the goodwill I have. My tribe friends are unable to arrive in time due to being tribespeople (why is there an option to call them if they're never going to be able to come in time?) so I call West Mendos and they send 8 or so guys. They go straight for the tribespeople and get slaughtered but help thin the crowd a little. Taisia goes on a pyschite binge because she's recreation-deprived. Some cows join the colony. Ellis, the saved friendly, gets up from her hospital bed and leaves the map, but not before almost getting herself killed along the way. The tribespeople begin their assault but very quickly we kill a couple of them and they flee. We run to put out the fires that our Allies caused fighting the tribespeople in the corner of the map. Joel goes into a daze. And then the toxic fallout hits. We decide to arrest Joel and Duster to prevent them from getting toxic buildup. Joel doesn't put up a fight but Duster does so we just drag him straight to a hospital bed.
2 days to launch - colonists alive 11 - We release Joel and he immediately goes into another Daze. And the a Raid of two separate sets of 12 tribespeople each enter. But they're preparing and Joel doesn't resist his arrest again. I call for support again and another 10 colonists come landing to help, this time going straight for the north group and fending them off and then coming down to help with the Southern group's attack. Flawless execution. Once they all flee, the Friendlies stick around and wait for more raids, which I like. Hurley immediately goes slaughterer again, but it's only the recently joined cows that he has to kill since Ilarion is safe in the casket. I decide to try releasing Kaleun since we don't have time to recruit her. She runs off, still wild, and B-lines straight off the edge of the map, gone forever. Did not see that coming. We release Joel and he's fine, for now.
1 day to launch - colonists alive 12 - Cristine and Duster are still unable to walk, so we load them into the ship early. Everyone's got toxic buildup, but we need to be repairing. I don't know what the last day will bring. Bill goes on a Murderous Rage and tries to Kill Camgorar. My broken and bruised colonists go on a slow wild chase around the maze of our base trying to stop him. Once them catch him they can't knock him down through his marine armor. After he knocks down Joel and takes a real beating, he falls. they fix them both up. Bill doesn't look like he's going to be able to walk for a bit so we carry him to the ship. I've limited everyone to our Toxic Fallout area just in case, and have changed everyone's work schedule to Anything all the time so they can tend to their needs. But on the last day, there were no raids. So with 12 colonists mostly in tact, and one dog, they departed.
----
Honestly, that was really wild. I think I got a bit screwed by the install bionics wealth bump, because I never faced anything like some of those bigger raids for this whole game. I think the game could use some kind of Battle Won moodlet, or Adrenaline Rush moodlet, or even just a We're Going To Space moodlet - something to help with the mental breaks at these crucial times. They were unexpectedly the second hardest part of keeping up with everything over these 15 days, way unlike everything we'd had previously, and really impossible to keep up on the causes of them. The dead bodies alone would cause everyone to break during those days. The hardest part of all was all the Mechanoids - which I did not love. It felt like 3/4rds of the raids were mechs. Why so many? Why not more pirates? I was friends with 3 other factions, but now I'm thinking that's probably not worth the trade off of having more mechs at the end. The first couple I thought, "This is great, I can break them down and I'll have more steel to rebuild with!" But there's no time for that when you're getting pummeled like this. I'd much prefer to have larger numbers of raiders and tribespeople than more of these insanely powerful mechs. I'm thinking about doing a mech-free game next just to shake off that experience.
I hope this was overall helpful and not too long or rambly to be useful. Now to figure out how I'm going to traverse a 100% map to the AI ship in my next game!
[attachment deleted due to age]
For me the ship cost was fine, and it took an ok amount of time to build. I would say the biggest shift was going from making it so you can't find enough uranium to not enough plasteel. I didn't have a deposit above ground on my temperate small hills map, but I did get a meteorite of it. The process of deep drilling for it was painfully slow. One cycle dosent even make enough to make one advanced component, which you need tons of.
Bug report with mods installed so in theory it could be a mod:
SHORT:
Either reforming a caravan twice (I visited 2 quests in the same caravan), a caravan member dying, or a new member joining resets the bed assignments to "unassigned" for the (living) caravan members.
MODS:
Hugs
Soil Clarifier
Toolboxifier
Prosthetic Icons
Squad UI Tweaks
Auto Seller
Hand Me That Brick Lite
No Forced Slowdown
Deep Ore Identifier
Modsync RW
While You're Up
LONG:
I created a caravan and sent it of. The 3 members of the caravan's beds were still saved in the colony (yay)
I went to my first quest and dealt with it unscathed (yay)
I left that first quest and went to a second one, which was a prisoner rescue quest. One of my colonists got shot but didn't die yet. We rescued the prisoner, and then the shot colonist got an infection which eventually killed her.
I then reformed that caravan and sent them to a third location, a town to sell all the junk so we could walk home quicker.
Then I noticed that the bed assignments had at some point reset.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 19, 2018, 09:10:53 PM
...
(may be, suppose so, i'm not too sure) this happened to my run too, kinda
basically, i send a 7-pawn caravan on a item stash, which was guarded, 1 pawn get killed, instantly, INSTANTLY, by a poor-sniper-rifle-low-shooting-skill pirate eventhough the guy was wearing full marine suit (power helmet+armor) :|, anyway, he got resurrected after the caravan get home 1.6d later, but i remember having to reassign 1 or 2 beds, aside from the resurrected pawn
Quote from: fritzgryphon on August 19, 2018, 01:25:53 PM
Each major ship part requires a unique component that is only attainable from quests, or sacking pirate bases. Pirate bases respawn in a random location if destroyed. The player always has something interesting to do while building the ship (and finally a reason to carry out offensive raids).
dat absurd grindwall.
it will be like Dig of Die when your superior engineering mind can't make ablative coating from anything expect specific "demon" skin owned by single specific demon.
you have entire world, but must visit very specific pirate base that for some reason have singular mandatory item.
game should not forcefeed and demand from player to do caravan stuff, yes this is major feature, but it should not be forced and absolutely mandatory.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest, Flat
Commitment mode: self-enforced yes
Colony age (days): 390
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8
Complete mod list: Numbers, Export Agency, Harvest Mature Plants!
I just lost my game during the launch countdown - which is fine, I like idea of the final challenge. At 400k wealth the raids are intense, which is also nice.
With that said, when i started the countdown I lost pretty much immediately, due to the raids coming so fast, that i had 3 raids on the map at the same time (normal size map). The first raid being a 40man sapper raid, that i shelled with 6 motors and used 3 artifacts on to stop mining - still they got through 5 spread walls and the following two raids of finished the job, as i was still fighting the first raid.
Is it intentional that there can be this many raids at once? (I get it if it is sieges and you try to wait them out).
Quote from: Tynan on August 18, 2018, 10:13:12 AM
Also, I'm looking for feedback on the cost of the ship. It's much less than B18, but how is it? Does it feel like it takes too long to build, too short, or okay?
I'm in the middle of building the ship in my playthrough right now. Cass Rough, Boreal Flat, ~450 days, ~13 hours in last 2 days, No Mods. Self-Imposed Commitment mode.
I have found it to be reasonable in terms of the raw resources. I can't gain any of the requirements too quickly, but my bottleneck is consistently the Advanced Components. I have 2 high-level crafters, and 1 low-level crafter, and it takes me a lot of time to build up all of the Advanced Components necessary, while also maintaining the colony's needs. I reliably have all the steel, uranium, and plasteel I need sitting around for a quadrum before I can get enough adv. Components for the next part. I'm buying all the ones I can, but I also keep needing to use them for bionics, anytime a limb or eye gets lost. It would help if the structure beams didn't need adv. components, and the cryptosleep caskets didn't need quite as many each.
I also wish that deep drilling for stone chunks didn't take as long as it does. Seeing as how it isn't looking for special resources, and unlike other mined resources, the chunks will still need additional processing to be usable, it would be nice if stone chunks mined up faster through the deep drill.
While I am not using any mods, for purposes of better testing, and 0.19 has eliminated my need for many mods, there are still 2 or 3 mods I intend to use once I am no longer playing on unstable branch. I still want to use the Cleaning Area mod, a mod to decide where traders hang out (in the middle of my largest stockpile, please!), and maybe a mod for better meal control.
I really wish there was some kind of facial reconstructive surgery I could do, to help the "disfigured" pawns with no nose. It is a kind of surgery we have in modern medicine, so I wish I could do it in Rimworld, as there is no other reliable way to fix a missing nose. I would be happy with it mandating normal medicine, rather than herbal, but it sucks that my people lose their nose so easily (9 out of 16 are missing a nose now) but there is no way to replace it.
I love the current iteration of the LRMS, and I'm mostly using it for gold and silver.
One more Merciless Randy tribe run ended long before spaceship.
40k wealth, not ever able to get electronics research, chunk of toxic ship fall right on me.
ah no problem, just set some traps and walls around it, easy kill!
trying to build trap near ship ever without damaging it caused mechanoid spawn, single centipede with flame cannon, that started to burn everything around.
well, trying to down centipede with bows gone bad, very bad, just like attempt to melee it, all combat colonists gone down eventually.
Remaining colonists with "violence" locked where kept safe and after centipede wander a bit away managed to carry away few downed pawns, not without getting burned a bit, but they managed it.
Then owner of pets died and his pets gone manhunter and finished colony.
Well, violence locked colonists suck, looking how barely alive husky that othervice will go down from single hit killed two people who refuse to defend themselves was awful.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on August 19, 2018, 09:03:57 PM
For me the ship cost was fine, and it took an ok amount of time to build. I would say the biggest shift was going from making it so you can't find enough uranium to not enough plasteel. I didn't have a deposit above ground on my temperate small hills map, but I did get a meteorite of it. The process of deep drilling for it was painfully slow. One cycle dosent even make enough to make one advanced component, which you need tons of.
I was thinking that there were a few points I forgot to make. First I didn't struggle with uranium because I had some above ground deposits and a meteorite or two.
Second, it is also hard to trade for plasteel. I can't pay traders to visit, and the faction rep is a little challenging to come by with the random visits. I could go to a town, but that takes time and food. Plus you need stuff to trade. Last is the mineral scanner. Not a bad idea, but I am always squeemish about unknown danger. Especially since on my playthrough I only had one miner.
Is there a problem with slept in heat penalty atm?
Just started a new game and a room with campfire at 28 degrees celsius triggers the slept in heat penalty. Really don't think thats considered HOT.
Quote from: podium86 on August 20, 2018, 09:53:51 PM
Is there a problem with slept in heat penalty atm?
Just started a new game and a room with campfire at 28 degrees celsius triggers the slept in heat penalty. Really don't think thats considered HOT.
It's not painful or anything but I'd probably be at least mildly cranky after sleeping in that temperature.
Note each pawn has their own minimum and maximum comfortable temperature. I believe if the temperature gets above that max they'll have the debuffs associated with it.
The market value of smoothed stone walls seems to be kinda unbalanced.
A normal marble wall is 7,67, while a smoothed is 25.
I get that it gives beauty too, but not enough to justify that increase imo.
I at cant see myself use this cool feature at least, due to it increasing wealth too much.
I'm finding that the initial cost of all the walls and floors on a new map is excessive. Tynan, why did you add this in? Why is that included in my town's worth? Please give a reason for this change. I also assume that if there are any hidden caches of ancient items that they are also added in.
Please consider removing this and making it only add to the colony's wealth if you claim the construction or if you deconstruct it down to the blocks. And please don't add the special items inside the ancient buildings until they are opened.
Quote from: Golden on August 20, 2018, 11:56:56 PM
I'm finding that the initial cost of all the walls and floors on a new map is excessive. Tynan, why did you add this in? Why is that included in my town's worth? Please give a reason for this change. I also assume that if there are any hidden caches of ancient items that they are also added in.
I'm not Tynan but I know why they were added. It was possible (and common) for players to limit their wealth while improving their colony by "paving the streets with gold" as the saying goes. Why put a huge statue in your town square when it means the raiders who show up at the door will be better equipped, and you can instead slather gold and silver floors everywhere and get a huge beautification boost while LOWERING your wealth?
As floors aren't "owned" the only practical way to implement this was to count all the floors on the map. I assume they added walls too as a "why not?" but don't know for sure.
This only counts things you can see, so things in ancient tombs and hidden valleys in mountains do NOT count. This was tested by a player, though I don't know in which thread. Possibly this very one.
While I don't really mind it myself as a thing, and don't consider it a bug (the stuff IS there and it IS worth money and raiders might want to come and take it) I do know that the Cassandra Rough NB runs I've done since the change sent harder enemies my way. Harder enough that I've yet to successfully get out of the first phases of NB (2nd colonist, relatively safe compound) without dying even though - RNG screw aside - I was getting pretty comfortable with it before the change.
I would be happy with a re-balance of the initial threat curve, to make the game play roughly the same as before.
Maybe an early-game raid type, "Floor thieves" who pick a random floor on the map. Their goal is only to rip it up and leave. If you leave them alone they leave you alone.
I've noticed that you can't smooth a wall on a diagonal, although the diagonal still contributes to the room's overall beauty. Any chance that this can be fixed? If I recall correctly, you used to not be able to build a wall on the diagonal, but you can now. I'd assume it's the same kind of mechanic.
Otherwise it's really fiddly to have to mine out another section of wall, smooth the corner, and then build a wall in the spot you mined out.
Sorry, let me elaborate on my point
I understand that the default temps for a pawn is 16-26 naked
With a tribal wear in tribal start it is -9.9 min/+9.9max
So i started a tribal run on a regular temperate forest map which starts at 6 degrees, filled in a room and built a campfire which took it to 28 degrees interior.
Now this is the question, whether it is intended behavior to require BOTH a cooler and campfire just to fix the interior temps for a 6 degree exterior environment for a tribal start?
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 21, 2018, 12:08:22 AM
I'm not Tynan but I know why they were added. It was possible (and common) for players to limit their wealth while improving their colony by "paving the streets with gold" as the saying goes. Why put a huge statue in your town square when it means the raiders who show up at the door will be better equipped, and you can instead slather gold and silver floors everywhere and get a huge beautification boost while LOWERING your wealth?
As floors aren't "owned" the only practical way to implement this was to count all the floors on the map. I assume they added walls too as a "why not?" but don't know for sure.
This only counts things you can see, so things in ancient tombs and hidden valleys in mountains do NOT count. This was tested by a player, though I don't know in which thread. Possibly this very one.
While I don't really mind it myself as a thing, and don't consider it a bug (the stuff IS there and it IS worth money and raiders might want to come and take it) I do know that the Cassandra Rough NB runs I've done since the change sent harder enemies my way. Harder enough that I've yet to successfully get out of the first phases of NB (2nd colonist, relatively safe compound) without dying even though - RNG screw aside - I was getting pretty comfortable with it before the change.
I would be happy with a re-balance of the initial threat curve, to make the game play roughly the same as before.
Maybe an early-game raid type, "Floor thieves" who pick a random floor on the map. Their goal is only to rip it up and leave. If you leave them alone they leave you alone.
Definitely immersion breaking for a legitimate early game task to be "defloor the whole map".
defloring map will move floor cost into stockpile cost and won't cause major effect btw
it just neh to see 5k building cost when you just landed naked in middle of nowhere
Better to build with than getting fresh materials though.
Quote from: podium86 on August 21, 2018, 12:37:37 AM
Sorry, let me elaborate on my point
I understand that the default temps for a pawn is 16-26 naked
With a tribal wear in tribal start it is -9.9 min/+9.9max
So i started a tribal run on a regular temperate forest map which starts at 6 degrees, filled in a room and built a campfire which took it to 28 degrees interior.
Now this is the question, whether it is intended behavior to require BOTH a cooler and campfire just to fix the interior temps for a 6 degree exterior environment for a tribal start?
Three existing solutions I use for managing heat in early game:
- Use torches instead of campfires, they raise the temperature less
- Or use a campfire, but leave the front door open to let some of the heat escape
- Use vents and/or open doors to share the heat from one heat source amongst multiple rooms. Vents are more efficient and avoid disturbed sleep debuff, but cost metal that might be in short supply (e.g. if you play NB.)
As far as I know, the initial building wealth issue has already been addressed.
I cannot find it back but I recall Tynan saying something about the boundaries being adjusted to take into account the newly introduced initial wealth. Shortly after that, this update note followed:
QuoteQuick new build is going up. This one should re-adjust the expectations boundaries to count floor wealth
So I think the issue is more or less solved already. I can imagine the solution is standardized and doesn't take into account the initial wealth of individual maps (just theorizing here, I don't know this), but even if it is implemented that way, I think it's a fine solution for a really minor problem that already had way too much attention.
it's "eyesore" that mess with graph in history tab.
issue is not calculation itself, issue is graph.
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on August 14, 2018, 08:47:40 PM
I've done at least 4 of them by now with no issue, 5th one has a manhunter ambush with 12+ foxes vs 2 people. I'm thinking "fuck, they're probably gonna get downed." I start getting extra pods built to send in reinforcements with my melee dudes to rescue these two.
The caravan people go down, the scenario map is force-closed and I'm told that the caravan was lost.
This actually kinda pissed me off, because I just lost both my best builder and miner to something that could of been salvageable, but the game decided that scenario was done and therefore they're lost forever. It's not like they died from a mid-caravan ambush, they were downed in a static spot where I could of easily sent in reinforcements if it wasn't for the fact the game auto-closed it.
These scenario maps should not auto-close at all unless all colony pawns are dead or taken off-map. If I wasn't running commitment mode for this, I probably would of reverted to a previous save. If you want to push for commitment mode as the 'default' mode, these kinds of situations need looked at so the player doesn't feel like they were just cheated out of an interesting situation.
Iirc in A16, temp maps used to be open until everyone was killed (https://imgur.com/a/ARFkG). The problem which has been reported as a bug several times since, is that pirates/ tribespeople didn't eat and starved to death. So players had defeated an enemy base because a wounded alpaca was down in the temp map and enemies starved to death and fought each other before the alpaca died...
The simple solution is to force close temp maps when your pawns are down. It makes some sense with humanoid enemies, but mechanoids don't eat and manhunter ambushes on caravan are closed in 24h anyway. So i'd be to force close temp maps when colonists are down only against pirates or tribespeople
and would love to know in which base they're kept prisonersQuote from: Roolo on August 21, 2018, 06:00:02 AM
QuoteQuick new build is going up. This one should re-adjust the expectations boundaries to count floor wealth
So I think the issue is more or less solved already. I can imagine the solution is standardized and doesn't take into account the initial wealth of individual maps (just theorizing here, I don't know this), but even if it is implemented that way, I think it's a fine solution for a really minor problem that already had way too much attention.
I think he was talking about the expectations mood buffs. But the wealth curve has also been adjusted and the 14000 first wealth points are free, so enough to cover the scattered ruins.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 21, 2018, 12:08:22 AM
Quote from: Golden on August 20, 2018, 11:56:56 PM
I'm finding that the initial cost of all the walls and floors on a new map is excessive. Tynan, why did you add this in? Why is that included in my town's worth? Please give a reason for this change. I also assume that if there are any hidden caches of ancient items that they are also added in.
I'm not Tynan but I know why they were added. It was possible (and common) for players to limit their wealth while improving their colony by "paving the streets with gold" as the saying goes. Why put a huge statue in your town square when it means the raiders who show up at the door will be better equipped, and you can instead slather gold and silver floors everywhere and get a huge beautification boost while LOWERING your wealth?
As floors aren't "owned" the only practical way to implement this was to count all the floors on the map. I assume they added walls too as a "why not?" but don't know for sure.
This only counts things you can see, so things in ancient tombs and hidden valleys in mountains do NOT count. This was tested by a player, though I don't know in which thread. Possibly this very one.
While I don't really mind it myself as a thing, and don't consider it a bug (the stuff IS there and it IS worth money and raiders might want to come and take it) I do know that the Cassandra Rough NB runs I've done since the change sent harder enemies my way. Harder enough that I've yet to successfully get out of the first phases of NB (2nd colonist, relatively safe compound) without dying even though - RNG screw aside - I was getting pretty comfortable with it before the change.
I would be happy with a re-balance of the initial threat curve, to make the game play roughly the same as before.
Maybe an early-game raid type, "Floor thieves" who pick a random floor on the map. Their goal is only to rip it up and leave. If you leave them alone they leave you alone.
I do understand that. However, why then is there a
"claim" tool in the game if it has no use. That should be what tells the AI about the floors and walls, that "I" own them, or maybe additionally if they are included in home areas that should inform the AI. If I pave my colony in gold or silver, then those walls and floors are INSIDE my colony and "I" created them and of course the AI should count that.
Also, if they have never been discovered and are still covered by fog-of-war then they shouldn't be counted, as happens with the ancient dangers and places buried in mountains and large hills, or even out in the open if they don't have a break in the walls.
The main issue is that floors are technically terrain and are a completely separate concept compared to structures, which is why the claim tool has no effect on flooring.
I'd imagine fixing this issue would take a refactor on how that shit is handled and either might be too late into the build to be reasonable or too large to be worthwhile when you can just cover the cost to effectively nullify the extra wealth.
Quote from: Golden on August 21, 2018, 09:45:51 AM
I do understand that. However, why then is there a "claim" tool in the game if it has no use. That should be what tells the AI about the floors and walls, that "I" own them, or maybe additionally if they are included in home areas that should inform the AI. If I pave my colony in gold or silver, then those walls and floors are INSIDE my colony and "I" created them and of course the AI should count that.
Also, if they have never been discovered and are still covered by fog-of-war then they shouldn't be counted, as happens with the ancient dangers and places buried in mountains and large hills, or even out in the open if they don't have a break in the walls.
The only use the claim tool has now is claiming turrets and doors etc on event maps. Otherwise yeah it is pretty useless.
Build: .19
Hours: ~20 in last 3 days
Randy, Merciless, Naked Brutality (Tribal Start)
Permadeath
Temperate (short growing season)
Almost everything feels really good in terms of pacing, other than gaining weapons as a tribal. I'm sure it varies based on difficulty and storyteller, but I currently feel no need to research ANY weapons, they all come from raids. After getting plate armor and the various other tribal start requirements, my current tech path after electricity was:
Electricity>Batteries>Solar Panels>Air Conditioning>Microelectronics>Machining>Flak Armor
Next I need the moisture pump, which is why I took Microelectronics so early, but I can't see myself researching any weapons until I need to tech to turrets/autoturrets, and then another push late game when I want the charge lance. I liked the previous builds where the %hp of a weapon contributed to it's accuracy (and possibly damage?).
I'm slowly getting used to the deadfall trap change, but it still feels awkward. With how spread out traps are now, it feels like a lot of time spent hauling 30 steel at a crack to replace them. It also leads to other bizarre interactions:
>Builder gets there first, starts building. Hauler goes to grab the dead body at the trap location, builder stops, trip is wasted.
>Builder rebuilds the trap, dead body is still on the trap. Hauler now has to step on the trap to grab the body.
One other small note:
I see a -6 for 'organ harvested from prisoner' as well as a -9 for 'x2 organ harvested from prisoner'. Is the cumulative -15 intended?
there are separate debuffs for harvesting organs and for killing prisoner by harvesting and for "innocent prisoner died".
harvesting 2x lung from random raid surviror to heal astma result in -20 for week that kinda absurd penalty if you take in account price of lungs for trade - just 300.
Create a duplicate set of all walls and floors used in map gen and assign them a wealth of zero? "Ancient Slate Wall" etc.
As is, the 16k wealth buffer creates a strong incentive to remove all starting objects as soon as possible.
I would point out that the casual Rimworld player, (and as I would also assert, the TYPICAL Rimworld player) not only doesn't pay attention to how much wealth they are gaining as a numerical score, but many if not most of them are unaware of the fact that the game scales difficulty based on wealth. This is a good thing. If an experienced hardcore Rimworld player wants to avoid things or use certain tactics to strategically reduce wealth, that is Meta-Gaming. Complain about balance if you want, but to claim that the wealth of a thing is "prohibitive" or makes the thing a "newb-trap" is a meta-gaming idea that has lost any perspective of what the typical game-play experience looks like. We're trying to help Tynan and the other devs make this game better for all players. Make balance suggestions if you think a thing should have a lower cost for legitimate gameplay balance reasons ACROSS ALL PLAYSTYLES, but if it just makes your specific scenario worse, please just mod it to your preference and don't complain here.
Quote from: RawCode on August 21, 2018, 11:49:30 AM
there are separate debuffs for harvesting organs and for killing prisoner by harvesting and for "innocent prisoner died".
harvesting 2x lung from random raid surviror to heal astma result in -20 for week that kinda absurd penalty if you take in account price of lungs for trade - just 300.
Seems reasonable. Easy to avoid terrible penalty by simply not having your colonists be terrible people.
Quote from: zizard on August 21, 2018, 04:44:29 AM
Better to build with than getting fresh materials though.
Isn't it anyway, though? You don't even need a stone cutter bench.
Quote from: Tass237 on August 21, 2018, 03:02:44 PM
... Make balance suggestions if you think a thing should have a lower cost for legitimate gameplay balance reasons ACROSS ALL PLAYSTYLES, but if it just makes your specific scenario worse, please just mod it to your preference and don't complain here.
How rude.
What you are suggesting is exactly what people are doing, which is giving feedback on metagame mechanics which could lead to better balancing and perhaps a less unfair (especially to the unknown player) way of increasing difficulty over time while keeping things fair when you get beaten up.
When people come to this game thinking it is just a basebuilder they'll get destroyed and start to look for answers, resulting in them learning either to accept their losses or game colony wealth.
As it stands now (and if I understand correctly) losses are unavoidable if you want to keep raid strength in check while increasing colony wealth, a thing people want to adress in the feedback they present here, something which can be loaded with frustration or dissapointment in 'gaming the system' at times, but it's feedback nonetheless.
We don't need to keep record of all playstyles in our feedback. It's up to the developers to sift through all the variable feedback players present and decide if and how to implement certain suggestions and balances.
Suggesting people just 'mod it to their preference and don't complain here' adds nothing. Please keep that to yourself.
Cheers :)
Quote from: Broken Reality on August 21, 2018, 11:18:24 AM
Quote from: Golden on August 21, 2018, 09:45:51 AM
I do understand that. However, why then is there a "claim" tool in the game if it has no use. That should be what tells the AI about the floors and walls, that "I" own them, or maybe additionally if they are included in home areas that should inform the AI. If I pave my colony in gold or silver, then those walls and floors are INSIDE my colony and "I" created them and of course the AI should count that.
Also, if they have never been discovered and are still covered by fog-of-war then they shouldn't be counted, as happens with the ancient dangers and places buried in mountains and large hills, or even out in the open if they don't have a break in the walls.
The only use the claim tool has now is claiming turrets and doors etc on event maps. Otherwise yeah it is pretty useless.
Well there is one other use: your colonists don't repair stuff that isn't owned by you. Say you build your starting room in one of the little ruins that litter the place: you fill in the gaps in the walls, door included, and throw a roof on it.
If you don't drag over it with the claim tool (or ya know, click each block individually and hit "claim", but that's much more a pain), then your colonists won't repair it, minus the stuff you built yourself.
Quote from: roben on August 19, 2018, 03:48:35 PM
It happened again. I did not really play much since the last post and I can't remember another social fight occurring since then.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/man-has-finger-bitten-off-during-melee-at-massachusetts-golf-course/507-585586890
:D
Well played, Tynan. I forget if I posted this before, but my recovering addict had his eye bitten out in a social fight. Don't do drugs, kids.
Quote from: Golden on August 21, 2018, 09:45:51 AM
Also, if they have never been discovered and are still covered by fog-of-war then they shouldn't be counted, as happens with the ancient dangers and places buried in mountains and large hills, or even out in the open if they don't have a break in the walls.
They don't. At least, they didn't when this was last tested which was I think 2 builds ago. If you have a test that shows wealth starts high and does not go up when a danger is opened the forum would like to see it.
Any change log for 0.19.2003?
Yes, was just about to post about it. There's a new build, hooray!
There are various bug fixes and some balance changes. I don't want to prejudice you guys too much, but I will note that the ship's component costs are reduced a good chunk now. If anyone makes the ship from here on I'd love to hear how it feels in terms of length. I think it's in a pretty good place now.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 21, 2018, 05:29:07 PM
Quote from: Golden on August 21, 2018, 09:45:51 AM
Also, if they have never been discovered and are still covered by fog-of-war then they shouldn't be counted, as happens with the ancient dangers and places buried in mountains and large hills, or even out in the open if they don't have a break in the walls.
They don't. At least, they didn't when this was last tested which was I think 2 builds ago. If you have a test that shows wealth starts high and does not go up when a danger is opened the forum would like to see it.
Hell I'll just test it now.
New game, cassandra peaceful NB, reload anytime, no mods, random site with a random person because who cares.
Dropped into a very empty map, 4 abandoned buildings and 9 walls by my count. Wealth was 4893.28. Buildings were 3398.28 and Creatures were 1495. By trying to form a caravan I found that my pawn was worth 1495, so it tallies. The entire map is worth about 2.5 naked people. There was an abandoned structure.
I went into dev mode and found that "fun points" was 3.5 but everything else in the dev graph was 0. I also turned on God mode and with it destroyed one wall of the structure.
There was a shock lance, a legendary wooden grand sculpture, an insanity lance, 10 luciferium, and 4 cryptosleep caskets, in addition to the flooring revealed.
Wealth did not go up so I fast forwarded. I had the pawn pick some berries just for hunger's sake, and at about 19h the wealth jumped to 10992.56 total, 4895.16 buildings, 4602.4 items, and still 1495 creatures. So hidden items don't count.
I then in God Mode deconstructed everything, which amusingly also removed mountains (they collapsed too). The roof collapsed and the 4 pods were destroyed, and 4 bad guys came out. I kited them as long as I could, got shot, went down, and with 2 hours of life left the graph changed. Item value went down to 3059.83 (the pods plus sculpture, counting the raw materials they and all the walls dropped). Creature value dropped to 175 (ouch) and Building value REMAINED THE SAME.
So, floors count but walls do not. Hidden items do not. The floors on a map are about the worth of 2-3 starting colonists.
Quote from: Golden on August 20, 2018, 11:56:56 PM
I'm finding that the initial cost of all the walls and floors on a new map is excessive. Tynan, why did you add this in? Why is that included in my town's worth? Please give a reason for this change. I also assume that if there are any hidden caches of ancient items that they are also added in.
Please consider removing this and making it only add to the colony's wealth if you claim the construction or if you deconstruct it down to the blocks. And please don't add the special items inside the ancient buildings until they are opened.
Because you can use these items. Also note floors and items can't be claimed/unclaimed, so no claim-based solution will work for them.
The complaint seems to be that counting more things for wealth makes the game harder. But it's easy for us to balance things back out to create the same results as before, which we've done. Nothing is more difficult than before, it's just less broken. E.g. sea ice at game start is no longer as attractive to raiders as a colony on a giant sheet of gold floor.
Happy to say your assumption about including undiscovered items is wrong.
Quote from: Golden on August 21, 2018, 09:45:51 AMwhy then is there a "claim" tool in the game if it has no use.
Claim is a directive to your pawns to care about, repair, and use an item. E.g. your pawns won't repair things you never claimed and generally won't use them. There are some things about claim which are a bit odd (or the concept of buildings having factions at all given they don't have minds), but overall it's been useful.
It's worth noting that, at least when I looked a couple of days ago, the first $14000 of wealth doesn't generate any fun points.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 21, 2018, 06:03:00 PMThe floors on a map are about the worth of 2-3 starting colonists.
It's worth noting that while this is true in terms of raw wealth, colonists contribute to threat points in their own special way (which is also related to wealth). Plus there are other modifiers related to time (early game ease-in for the first 40 days or so) and recovery, as well as various specially-tuned minimums and thresholds in play. Basically the system is somewhat complex and very often incorrectly simplified down to something like "points=wealth*constantFactor" which really isn't even close to the truth.
Much of the theorizing happening here is based on incorrect assumptions so it's not really adding anything useful to the development process. You're welcome to make another thread to discuss any of this but for this thread, let's please stick closer to play experiences and reduce the theorycrafting. Thanks.
Quote from: Tass237 on August 21, 2018, 03:02:44 PM
I would point out that the casual Rimworld player, (and as I would also assert, the TYPICAL Rimworld player) not only doesn't pay attention to how much wealth they are gaining as a numerical score, but many if not most of them are unaware of the fact that the game scales difficulty based on wealth.
Very good to keep in mind the gap between the kind of people who participate here and the mass of people who actually play the game (with the median playtime somewhere around 30 hours). This is why I love feedback from newbs so much, but ironically it's really hard to get!
Hi not quite a noob, but I have put away the game for almost a year. I must say the new world map interactions and relationships are great. I finally managed to survive the first year and I became invested in my colony after I went on a rescue mission where I learned that I was rescuing my colonist's father! It added to the tension and it was great to have a family reunion. I am not sure if these events happen consistently, I think they should.
If I had to give criticism, I would say I needed a bit more direction in the mid to late game. I was lost on what to focus on later in the game. I ended up here looking to see what others were doing and decided to "upgrade" my colonists with bionic parts.
All in all, I am having loads of fun. The learning curve is steep, but once you survive the first two years, you know you're over the main hump and the rest is tweaking. People who will enjoy this game won't be discouraged by this.
Quote from: SharpSheep on August 21, 2018, 07:35:32 PM
If I had to give criticism, I would say I needed a bit more direction in the mid to late game. I was lost on what to focus on later in the game. I ended up here looking to see what others were doing and decided to "upgrade" my colonists with bionic parts.
In my experience there are 2 phases to the game: Ramp-up and ship-building. The second starts when you start to flounder in the first, and floundering in the first is likely the main reason for the existence of the second.
So if you're floundering, start building that ship!
I'm having issues with hunters quitting mid-hunt to return to camp for a meal. It's happened so often that now I'm keeping an eye on my hunters "just in case".
Could you ensure they're carrying a meal before they go hunt?
-----
On a different note, the amount of time colonists will spend on a prioritized task seems to vary wildly. If I prioritize cooking meals, they'll do it until they drop from exhaustion. If I prioritize mining, though, they'll barely chip away half a tile before they wander off to do something else. Could you lengthen the time they'll work on a priority task like mining or constructing multiple tiles?
Quote from: Tynan on August 21, 2018, 05:11:13 PM
Quote from: roben on August 19, 2018, 03:48:35 PM
It happened again. I did not really play much since the last post and I can't remember another social fight occurring since then.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/man-has-finger-bitten-off-during-melee-at-massachusetts-golf-course/507-585586890
:D
A finger is one thing, but I have had a b19 colonist bite anothers leg off in a social fight, lol.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on August 21, 2018, 10:33:32 PM
...A finger is one thing, but I have had a b19 colonist bite anothers leg off in a social fight, lol.
I mean, there are some situations in which that is technically possible.
Did the leg take other damage before being bitten off?
Also I don't imagine a "bite" attack to be similar to a punch, in that the head is extended and then withdrawn with no other actions. Its more like the target is grabbed and grappled, bit, and then
the biting mouth is pulled back while the attacker holds the victim in place to enhance the tearing damage of the bite.
social fights are okay.
don't forget, that very same people can kill grizly with bare hands, able to berserk and take down steel and stone doors with bare hands (and if hands are removed, by other bodyparts) without any self injury, can eat rotten bodies and perform neurogical surgery with sticks and stones.
Quote from: Tynan on August 21, 2018, 06:33:05 PM
Very good to keep in mind the gap between the kind of people who participate here and the mass of people who actually play the game (with the median playtime somewhere around 30 hours). This is why I love feedback from newbs so much, but ironically it's really hard to get!
Same median playtime for civilization 5, same players/playtime shape as well, which is the sign of a game highly replayable. But i understand it maybe the luxury of a large studio to spend more human hours on the mid late game.
Does it matter if someone finds out that the urgency to prepare for the next raid was all smoke and mirrors? After all, they probably got a fair number of hours out of the game. As long as it isn't too well known, sales won't be affected, especially this late in the game's lifecycle.
Quote from: zizard on August 22, 2018, 04:42:55 AM
Does it matter if someone finds out that the urgency to prepare for the next raid was all smoke and mirrors?
I don't recall the game urgently prompting me to prepare for the next raid. I learned that by playing and by being chronically unprepared for the next raid. I do not recall mirrors. There was very occasionally smoke though.
Quote from: Tynan on August 21, 2018, 06:22:14 PM
Quote from: Golden on August 21, 2018, 09:45:51 AMwhy then is there a "claim" tool in the game if it has no use.
Claim is a directive to your pawns to care about, repair, and use an item. E.g. your pawns won't repair things you never claimed and generally won't use them. There are some things about claim which are a bit odd (or the concept of buildings having factions at all given they don't have minds), but overall it's been useful.
Couldnt claim be removed and just use home zone to claim?
I called help from friendlies.
But drop pods from friendly faction landed on a can of chemfuel, and it exploded!
This is very annoying.
I think player should have an ability to designate the location where drop pods will land.
So player can save themselves from tragedy like this.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Quote from: erdrik on August 21, 2018, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on August 21, 2018, 10:33:32 PM
...A finger is one thing, but I have had a b19 colonist bite anothers leg off in a social fight, lol.
I mean, there are some situations in which that is technically possible.
Did the leg take other damage before being bitten off?
Also I don't imagine a "bite" attack to be similar to a punch, in that the head is extended and then withdrawn with no other actions. Its more like the target is grabbed and grappled, bit, and then the biting mouth is pulled back while the attacker holds the victim in place to enhance the tearing damage of the bite.
It is hard to say. I would agree that it is most likely the bite was the final blow. I only looked at the health screen after the fight, and it said left leg severed (bitten off). Still, the mental image of a person biting off an appendage with a large bone and several inches of flesh during a fist fight was amusing.
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on August 22, 2018, 09:00:43 AM
Quote from: erdrik on August 21, 2018, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: Dashthechinchilla on August 21, 2018, 10:33:32 PM
...A finger is one thing, but I have had a b19 colonist bite anothers leg off in a social fight, lol.
I mean, there are some situations in which that is technically possible.
Did the leg take other damage before being bitten off?
Also I don't imagine a "bite" attack to be similar to a punch, in that the head is extended and then withdrawn with no other actions. Its more like the target is grabbed and grappled, bit, and then the biting mouth is pulled back while the attacker holds the victim in place to enhance the tearing damage of the bite.
It is hard to say. I would agree that it is most likely the bite was the final blow. I only looked at the health screen after the fight, and it said left leg severed (bitten off). Still, the mental image of a person biting off an appendage with a large bone and several inches of flesh during a fist fight was amusing.
I don't know how pawns (and animals in that case) choose which attack to use when fightning weaponless, but it would be fun if a pawn with the cannibal trait would use the bite attack much more often than usuall :D
Quote from: Tynan on August 21, 2018, 05:11:13 PM
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/nation-world/man-has-finger-bitten-off-during-melee-at-massachusetts-golf-course/507-585586890
:D
If you find an article, you will see more guns in a social fight. But do not put a gun on a social fight in the game. It's too dangerous.
At the lower stages of social struggle, we only care about fast recovery.
But beyond a certain level, that's a problem for us.
Once a stage is a permanent injury, death or recovery takes a great deal of time.
It does not matter if you can not control or prepare it at a lower level. But beyond a certain level, you need a counterpart that can prevent it or reduce damage.
Whether or not you have gone beyond a certain level is a matter of concern.
Consider a specific level.
Could it cause permanent injury or death?
Can it defeat the game?
Does not it take too much time to recover?
Are there too many targets to influence?
I think the current social struggle is going to go beyond that level. You need to give the counter part or lower the risk.
Maybe social fights could be grouped in intensities:
Low: Fistfight
Medium: Fists + Teeth
Serious (Psychos+Drugs only?): Everything including weapons
Or, as East stated, provide some counter measures to reduce pawn aggression.
As a quick fix for 1.0, though, less biting in social fights (for non psychos?) would be great.
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: rough
Biome/hilliness: temperate forest. 40/60 growing season. large hills, no river/coast/road
Commitment mode: (yes/no): self imposed limit of 2 reloads per colony.
Current colony age (days): 267
Hours played in the last 2 days: 18 hours this map.
Complete mod list: none.
build 1998
as for my reloads: playing on speed 4... on day 30 somebody had a heart attack (i had 2 glitter meds that weren't used the first time). I'd rather not reroll my colonists/colony for not paying close attention. user error not gameplay error.
used the other reload day 50? when i missed an overhang in a warehouse filled with 2000 chemfuel and insects spawn (even if it was exactly 2 tiles not blocked in)
After that second reload I was being extremely careful in filling in all the mountain overheads with walls, in and out of my walls. hadn't done any non-drill mining in about 80 days of game time when an infestation spawns surrounding my kitchen. not even near the drills i have installed. the letter said nothing of the drills so i frantically search for any mountain overheads i've missed and found exactly 2 in a bedroom (that has existed since day 30). This feels absurdly punishing for such a minor "mistake". 20 hives, 7 of which are in the room with the overhead mountain. now that i think about it the insects tunnel from underground why would overhead mountain matter to them? I know lots of people like insects/infestations but I never enjoyed them especially since the tutorial in game has no mention of how it can happen and what to do to prevent it.
apart from this my tribal colony is maybe 2 years away from leaving this world.
when your colony is this rich (400k, 20 people) world quests are a joke. apart from assaulting faction bases (haven't tried yet), 3 turrets and a gojuicing raider is extremely outgunned by any 4 of my people. I don't even have devilstrand yet because cold snaps. I know it's in the process of being terraformed but if a cold snap happens every year isn't that just winter?
I had a raid about 100 days in where they had 12 raiders : 3 molotov, 2 knife, 2 triple rocket launcher, 1 doomsday launcher, 2 incendiary launcher and 2 others that died in explosions, i don't recall what they had. they all ran towards my base and then mined into the ancient danger that formed part of my northern wall. they wasted the rockets and i took bruises. i think there were some mechanoids in there but they didn't escape. the knife users somehow lived. I know my colony was rich at that point but they would have done considerably more damage had they not been brainless. i'd love to have a new type of raid where they try not to die and avoid friendly fire. maybe have a more extreme version of raid where they are psychos (as in borderlands). Currently the variety of raid types and combat threats can all be solved with the same solutions, or so it seems. Then again: playing on rough.
another raid on day 252: friendly tribesmen appear on the opposite side of the map and attempt to intercept the sappers who set up on my bulk wall (the only wall with no traps or turrets) after fire burns down the double steel door entrance they funnel into their deaths and I lose faction rep. I never asked for their help, and i'm punished for it. feels bad. once they were all dead or fleeing the raiders poured through the same hole into my 18 colonists with assault rifles and one minigun. armor is so good at this point only one person was bleeding at the end of it. got 1 more minigun from this, and captured one pawn who was from the friendly faction. all the raiders were druggies or pyros, which is quite clear now that the forest is on fire.
I can always send a transport pod filled with huskies or leathers to their base for 150 faction rep.
love the new smelter look. usually skipped making them in .19 but since bodies take longer to decompose even on water now I need to have it.
That's all for now.
Quote from: Tynan on August 21, 2018, 06:14:45 PM
The complaint seems to be that counting more things for wealth makes the game harder. But it's easy for us to balance things back out to create the same results as before, which we've done. Nothing is more difficult than before, it's just less broken. E.g. sea ice at game start is no longer as attractive to raiders as a colony on a giant sheet of gold floor.
Actually my main complaint is that it rewards removing all the floors around ruins, which makes no sense from an in-game perspective. This isn't fixed by offsetting the starting wealth. You still get rewarded for deflooring. It could be fixed by making ruins only have flagstones, and flagstones be worth nothing, or have no floors at all.
Quote from: zizard on August 22, 2018, 07:16:22 PM
...
Actually my main complaint is that it rewards removing all the floors around ruins, which makes no sense from an in-game perspective. ...
What about "de-flooring from an in-game perspective" makes no sense?
If raiders are attracted to your colony's floors, they will be attracted to ruin floors, too. Support floor equality.
Quote from: zizard on August 22, 2018, 07:16:22 PM
Actually my main complaint is that it rewards removing all the floors around ruins, which makes no sense from an in-game perspective. This isn't fixed by offsetting the starting wealth. You still get rewarded for deflooring. It could be fixed by making ruins only have flagstones, and flagstones be worth nothing, or have no floors at all.
If you remove the floors you'll end up with a bunch of resources, which is wealth. The amount of counted wealth should remain the same or increase IIRC. Feel free to do this in your play, but I think it's not a useful strategy given the tiny return and significant labor investment in the early game. Willing to be shown wrong, but it's a pretty small deal either way.
New build is going up! Mostly bug fixes.
Quote from: Tynan on August 22, 2018, 07:56:06 PM
If you remove the floors you'll end up with a bunch of resources, which is wealth. The amount of counted wealth should remain the same or increase IIRC. Feel free to do this in your play, but I think it's not a useful strategy given the tiny return and significant labor investment in the early game. Willing to be shown wrong, but it's a pretty small deal either way.
New build is going up! Mostly bug fixes.
On tribal starts I regularly defloor and wall the map and use the materials to build my starting base rather than build out of wood. In the end I feel it is better to have the wealth be used for something than just scattered around the map doing nothing for me. Why make 5k worth of bricks when there is that amount on the map already, it may only be a small reduction in gained wealth but keeping expectations as low as possible at the start is important.
Quote from: Broken Reality on August 22, 2018, 10:02:54 PM
On tribal starts I regularly defloor and wall the map and use the materials to build my starting base rather than build out of wood. In the end I feel it is better to have the wealth be used for something than just scattered around the map doing nothing for me. Why make 5k worth of bricks when there is that amount on the map already, it may only be a small reduction in gained wealth but keeping expectations as low as possible at the start is important.
I don't go to EVERY wall and floor but I generally nab one or two rooms near where I want my base and use those. I don't even bother claiming them until I need to. I then dismantle the walls and floors in the immediate area to build walls where I actually want them.
Here's the rub, though: I did this before the floors started counting as wealth. Why? Because it's bricks you can't otherwise make without slowly mining rock that randomly drops (or doesn't) chunks you then have to chisel into bricks on a table you must construct. For the first few rooms of a colony I can't be bothered when those bricks are just lying there asking me to take them with a quick, predictable, one-step, and infestation-free method.
I guess the question shouldn't be why does someone feel the need to do it now, but instead why weren't they doing it before?
Quote from: 5thHorseman on August 22, 2018, 10:38:55 PM
I guess the question shouldn't be why does someone feel the need to do it now, but instead why weren't they doing it before?
Lots of biomes have rocks scattered everywhere, so cutting the ones around the base can be quicker. Also I cut the stupid boulders around my base just to get rid of them.
counting all the "wealth" of all the stuff in the map is like counting all the uranium, gold, oil, gas, diamonds, etc. in the world, if not in the whole universe
you know they're there, you know you can get them if you exert your effort, but it's impractical, so the resources isnt exactly "wealth", even if it's, "potentially", "wealth"
a floor or wall of ruins in the map'snt "wealth", they're nothing different from those ores that you'll have to dig out to make use, or chunks that need to be cut, wealth is something you either accumulate, and/or have immediate/direct usability
Let's please stay on topic, thanks.
Hi, I played fine yesterday, but today when launching it I cant even get it to run without mods. I keep getting
Root level exception in Update(): System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at Verse.ScreenshotTaker.Update () [0x00015] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\ScreenshotTaker.cs:28
at Verse.UIRoot.UIRootUpdate () [0x00001] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\UI\UIRoot.cs:79
at Verse.UIRoot_Entry.UIRootUpdate () [0x00002] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\UI\Entry\UIRoot_Entry.cs:98
at Verse.Root.Update () [0x0005e] in C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:122
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_Log(LogType, String, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogFormat(LogType, Object, String, Object[])
UnityEngine.Logger:Log(LogType, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:LogError(Object)
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean) (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Utility\Debug\Log\Log.cs:68)
Verse.Root:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root.cs:141)
Verse.Root_Entry:Update() (at C:\Dev\RimWorld\Assets\Scripts\Verse\Global\Root\Root_Entry.cs:38)
(Filename: C:/Dev/RimWorld/Assets/Scripts/Verse/Utility/Debug/Log/Log.cs Line: 68)
Heres the whole file https://www.dropbox.com/s/cglmeboshcynunt/output_log.txt?dl=0
Kass, you should delete and reinstall and/or use Steam to check the files. At least some files are missing or broken somehow.
I already tried both, but Ill try to give it another try and empty all folders beforehand
Edit: No, still cant get it to work... It worked before I went to bed but not after, which was strange since there had been no updates...
Edit2: Downgraded to B18, but Im still unable to launch, What happened to my pc during the night :o https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tj5hbm6wpgcwdh/output_log.txt?dl=0
Edit3: Well I think I figured it out, one of the unloaded mods broke everything, when I deleted the mods folders it fixed it... Guess I shouldnt try to make modifications myself as apparently I broke everything. I assumed unloaded mods didnt interact in anyway with the game :o
I noticed that the colonists don't receive a "Prisoner sold" mood modifier when using transport pods. I used a transport pod to send BOTH a prisoner and an unwanted colonist as a "gift" to a nearby settlement. It increased relations and caused an alliance but no one in my colony seemed to notice. There were absolutely no negative modifiers from the interaction, none for the prisoner, none for the colonist, and I wasn't checking psychopaths. Not sure if this is an intended feature, cheers! (Definitely on the latest build as of this post).
So, I complained about inspirations before, but I didn't really understand how they exactly worked. Today I was making a modification to pyromaniacs so they get inspirations far more often. While doing that I was digging through Rimworld code and found how the randomness of inspirations works.
Let's just say... it's definitely better than complete randomness. Good mood = more inspirations. However, the message I'm getting isn't too good. To really achieve a lot of inspirations you need constantly very high mood. And there is really only two ways to achieve that in most situations:
Marriage or drugs.
So Tynan teaches us: Marriage or drugs = inspiration
just got random gift from above
is such combination expected, it basically cancel each other?
[attachment deleted due to age]
I've just noticed that now when spaceship chunks land it no longer says that they have "landed" but that they have "impacted". "Impact" in the sense of collision is a noun and not a verb. It would make sense to call the machine parts you can mine "impacted machinery" but that is a different, though cognate, word meaning packed tightly together. Interestingly, the (incorrect) use of "impacted" to mean collided appears to be a back-formation from a figurative and abstract use of "impact" as a verb meaning to affect. In any case, I am thoroughly triggered by this piece of unfortunate diction in my favorite game of all time.
Quote from: XrypticPyro on August 23, 2018, 04:58:38 AM
I noticed that the colonists don't receive a "Prisoner sold" mood modifier when using transport pods. I used a transport pod to send BOTH a prisoner and an unwanted colonist as a "gift" to a nearby settlement. It increased relations and caused an alliance but no one in my colony seemed to notice. There were absolutely no negative modifiers from the interaction, none for the prisoner, none for the colonist, and I wasn't checking psychopaths. Not sure if this is an intended feature, cheers! (Definitely on the latest build as of this post).
was the prisoner from the faction you sent it to? You're not selling them using transport pods because you gain nothing from it. Still strange nobody cares about shipping people off like this.
first 100 days on randy merciless, no mods no cheats, temperate forest hills.
zergrush manhunter packs are fun, 20 labradors and 17 cows in single week, over 4k meat (that spoiled with extra large amount of warnings "item spoiled in storage" that pop up really fast)
also loot from raids addup and increase difficulty in passive manner, it's clear visible on double raid, killing everyone caused major spike in wealth.
<storyWatcher>
<statsRecord>
<numRaidsEnemy>11</numRaidsEnemy>
<numThreatsQueued>14</numThreatsQueued>
<colonistsKilled>5</colonistsKilled>
<greatestPopulation>9</greatestPopulation>
</statsRecord>
<watcherAdaptation>
<adaptDays>7.555555</adaptDays>
</watcherAdaptation>
<watcherPopAdaptation>
<adaptDays>10</adaptDays>
</watcherPopAdaptation>
</storyWatcher>
intentional "human sacrifices" do work and work really well, killing "bad" and useless colonists allows to keep adaptation and raid points at bay.
[attachment deleted due to age]
The story continues:
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, flat, river (year round growing)
Commitment mode: No
Colony age: 195ish days
Hours played in the last 2 days: 8+? (doh)
No mods.
Me: newbie.
Part I: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg425195#msg425195
Part II: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg426124#msg426124
The fallout ends a few days later, and there is much rejoicing and removal of roofing.
I decide to open up the ancient danger and prepare a defensive position: a couple of turrets and sandbags across the river from the danger. Fox, my main melee expert opens up the wall and I reveal a scyther and a lancer - not too scary, and the scyther goes down in a hail of fire. The lancer fires from inside and hits my boomalope that survived the fallout and now wandered into the middle of the firefight. BOOM! Now there is fire between us and I'm going to need a new breeder boomalope. The EMP grenadier tosses a grenade inside and the two melee charge in and finish it. That feels good.
I need to go to bed, so instead of playing safe I just have most of my ranged pawn go stamp out the fire while the 2 shielded melee open the pods. How bad can it be? 5 angry, well equipped cryo-people and a brush fire with most of my people in the open between them and my autoturrets make for a messy fight. The sleepy dude in the marine armour seems unstoppable, my smoke belts are exploding everywhere, but they have no melee and in the end Rissa, my silver plated (from a trade mission) brawler, and Fox with her thrombo horn take them down and the worst wounds are to my pride.
The focus now on the colony is research and figuring out how to not sprawl out in every direction while still meeting our needs. Time for some renos. A large group of panthers come in to criticize our redecorating, but the new sally ports work well, although I'm having trouble getting everyone to change into their combat gear in time.
Things are back to normal, I do a trade quest (Vanometric power cell for 5 adv components, free power seems to good to be true but I've been really trying hard to save up those components so I can switch to ship building... sigh), some Zzzts, but I've already researched how to minimize the damage using power switches. I actually have too much power now but no good ways of turning it off, will need to add that to the reno. Another trade request for 37 button down shirts... I don't yet have a expert crafter, but maybe my lacklustre pawns can improve on the job.
Then my first sapper raid hits. Two groups, same direction, the first close enough that it is a mad scramble to get people back into base and geared up. I forget entirely about the other group, while some visitors who were hanging out decide to charge into the first group, 2 vs 7. It's all over in seconds and there are fires from molotovs everywhere. At least it gave me a bit more time to get changed. The first group continues south and hits the main bridge defence and gets pretty mangled, some split off south for unknown reasons but run into traps, and I'm just congratulating myself when I notice there is a pirate in my base right behind me, one of my pacifists is already trying to serve them tea. Argh! I send my three melee pawns into close quarters fighting and split the rest into firefighting, mop up, and fire support for the brawlers. The pirates have other ideas and just start lighting everything on fire. So it turns into a dust up in the hallways while everything is burning down around them. I send in a nearby pacifist to open doors, take off roofs and fight fires and we manage to down the pirates, take 3 prisoners and put out the fires. No serious permanent injuries, just some missing fingers. Whew. The fire trashed a couple a rooms, but is easily repaired.
Set off on the shirt trade caravan and Granny had her 81st birthday and became Frail. Strange that other pawns don't celebrate their birthdays. I wonder if there are any bionics or serums for old age? On that note, I pick up 2 shooter serums on the way back which should help boost the combat readiness of the crew, but after the purchase I check out the Bios of my pawns and there really isn't a great candidate, everyone has slowly worked there way up to be pros and I don't want to waste it on skill decay. Not knowing what to do with all the tainted gear I took on the caravan, forgetting again that no one wants all this completely usable flak gear, I just dump it on the way back. Such a waste, can't even give it away. Getting worried about food again... so hard to know how much to plant.
When the caravan is halfway there the mechanoids drop pod in, scattered all over the map. Killed 3 chicks who were too little to keep up with the rest of animals running for the safezone while we gear up, but there's more where that came from. My sniper (and top constructor) is the first to engage a lancer and it almost immediately blows his left leg clean off. One of my original colonists. Gah. I'm panicked, not sure what to do, I move him into cover and try to figure out how to stop the bleeding, but there doesn't seem to be any of doing so (can't rescue until he is downed, can't treat until in a bed), eventually just having him drop his rifle for someone else, and have him ever so slowly and painfully one-legged hop to the hospital, blood spewing everywhere. Another scyther sneaks into the base from somewhere and colonists start dancing with him while Miney and his favourite chain shotgun keep the beat until the mech drops.
I get pirate outpost raid quest and wait for a couple prisoners to flip and then head out with 6 professional killers. The map is really small, a desert with just chunks for cover. I find the best corner to attack from, set up an animal area to keep the out of the way, and begin the assault. Things go according to plan, but 6 colonists vs 9 pirates makes me nervous without having decent defensive positions and only 1 set of marine armor. I'm not looking for fair fights with people's limbs and lives on the line. The charge lance wielding octogenarian sharpshooter and 2 shielded meleers are all nominated as MVPs.
Getting close to day 200, research is nearly done, I'm curious what it's going to take to build a ship to finally escape.
Gripes and suggestions summary:
- "At Ease" command for drafted pawns: hold your position but you can engage in eating, cloudwatching, tending to self or neighbours, etc.
- Makes it easier when you are moving people into position while others are already there waiting
- Having some issues with excessive micro when getting geared up for combat, not sure what the UI fix would be, but when I switch colonists to their war loadout, then I want to have them drafted and going to a location after they get dressed. It's a lot of micromangement to switch the colonists outfits, wait for them to change, then notice that they are finished, draft and send to the right spot.
- Maybe a change outfit button when colonist is selected (even when drafted). Then I could draft, queue an outfit change, queue location to move to.
- I do like the outfit UI to change everyone at once, in my case each type of pawn has civvie clothes and battle clothes. Types are basically: melee, ranged, pacifist but I also have a hunter and grenadier subclasses of ranged.
- Moving pawns when they are close to each other is particularly challenging. Perhaps a modifier key (ctrl, etc) to force move to a position and bump the other person? (When you get bumped you move back along the path you came one space or the closest nearest space to that.)
- Showing the final destinations of other pawns on the map might also help with coordinating everything. Ghosts of the pawns might even help with identifying who is going to be where?
- Would be nice if trade and caravan UIs remembered their current settings (so you can safely cancel, check out other info and return to the same place in the trade).
- Add a button to clear all?
- More parties! (I would trade less mood boost per party for more parties).
- Colonist birthday parties (at 10s of years?)
- Celebrate outpost founding day
- After major battles with few injuries
- Option to rescue/tend wounded before they are downed:
- Tend: temporarily slow blood loss without permanent fixing?
- Rescue: help pawn move to hospital
- The tainted mechanic is immersion breaking for me. I'd much rather have damage done to clothing from combat much higher and make clothing repairable and salvageable (time and resources sinks). Make damaged clothing sell for much less (and I assume it protects less well already). In real life I think there is a pretty steep dropoff, where secondhand clothing is fine if slightly worn (>90%) but once it has a couple of holes no one wants it.
- Damaged clothing (at a certain % or at random) could have its maximum health reduced or even its quality.
- This bothers me enough that I wouldn't ship with tainted still in the game (if it were up to me). It screams temporary hack (until a deeper mechanic and working economy is in place).
- Option to wait (and rest) before entering a map from a caravan so that you can be sure people are well rested/fed/recreationed/drugged and can plan assaults for night raids.
- Counter raided while waiting!
- Does darkness affect accuracy? Ninja raids!
- I want night vision goggles (and they would be integrated into marine armor).
- Mineral scanners don't seem to do anything. Needs some sort of feedback or indication that something is going on. For example: square kilometeres searched. I've had a scanner for a long time but nothing has ever come up, but I don't know if that is because it is not being used enough. I'm not even sure how I'd make certain colonists scan versus research, so maybe change tuning to bills and allow for certain colonists to be selected.
- Multi-select which colonists are allowed to work on a bill would be nice. Sometimes hard to find a combination of skill requirements and work settings that gets the right people doing the right job.
- The main problems come from different benches with similar skills. I want my best crafter to prioritize making X, but then make Y at a different bench, then Z. Not sure what the simplest UI would be for that. Perhaps a Priorities tab for colonists that shows all available tasks for them in ordered priority? You could flag a task with special priority which would move it to the top of it's group (i.e. first among equals).
- Being able to view that and the Work UI at the same time would be nice so you could see how changing Work priorities changes your colonists task ordering.
[attachment deleted due to age]
Running version 2005 and the huskies are rarely completing a training attempt. I've watched two or three colonists spend several hours attempting to train my huskies and the huskies always move before they are given the complete or fail acknowledgement.
just got tripple addiction prisoner from 30 people siege, managed to kill 19 and they flee.
[attachment deleted due to age]
My suggestion for the floor wealth counts, even floors that were on the map at the start would be to introduce a new floor type for pre-existing structures.
- Crumbling stone
- Rusty steel flooring
- Rusty/Corroded steel wall
Give them a lower cost value and less resources returned.
Death by a Thousand CutsStoryteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Scenario: Naked Brutality
Biome/hilliness: Arid Shrubland
Commitment mode: No, though I play in that style
Current colony age (days): ~20
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8
Complete mod list: None
Just as things were getting stabilized a camel went mad. Zippy got off a few shots with her poor quality bow, but due to inexperience with the new door changes the camel muscled its way indoors. As I watched in horror, the camel bit Zippy in the shoulder, downing her. About 8 hours before she was going to bleed to death, Zippy gets up! She's at zero mood, but there's plenty of time for her to eat some berries from the floor and tend herself, right? Not quite... she gets food poisoning from the berries, vomits throughout her self treatment, and finally goes berserk. In her haze of camel bite and food poisoning induced rage, she attacks the 4 remaining chickens that joined the colony about a week prior (she'd been slowly slaughtering them as they starved to death in the corner). While Zippy is able to take out a couple chickens, she takes about 15 scratches and goes back down. Killed by her own chickens.
The Man in BlackStoryteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless
Scenario: Crashlanded
Biome/hilliness: Temperate Forest
Commitment mode: No, though I play in that style
Current colony age (days): ~40
Hours played in the last 2 days: ~8
Complete mod list: None
Nothing noteworthy early game -- I put up a few nice bedrooms and storage/dining rooms with about 2/3 of the storage built out of stone, but the freezer is still wood. Two of my colonists decided to get married, then
immediately break up (seriously, the notifications came in at the exact same time: Propsal Accepted! Breakup!).
Of course immediately after I deconstruct the wooden freezer walls to upgrade them I get a raid with a molotov guy. My defenses are in shambles, and the raid goes about how you would expect -- the molotov guy lights the freezer on fire, as well as a bedroom, as well as all three of my colonists at various points. Finally we drive off the raid (with no deaths), but one of my two doctors can't move, and everyone is wounded. By the time I get the fires put out, everyone has infections. I'm able to get 2 of the three of infections treated before my doctor goes catatonic. So I've got one guy infected in such a way that he can't move, another infected and now catatonic, and a third infected who refuses to doctor at all. Infection lock -> certain death.
But no! A Man in Black appears to rescue me. He's even got good medical. Of course, he wants to change into the dogskin shirt that by some miracle didn't burn up in my storage room before treating anyone, but beggars can't be choosers. If my rescuer wants to change his shirt, let him. That being said, he isn't able to save anyone except the jerk who wont doctor, so really he's just the burial crew.
The Man in Black is kinda weird: his "sex" is "Man in Black." I assume there is a "Woman in Black" and that they suffer from psychic drones as appropriate. Just kinda a funny way to note the "in Black" origin. I was expecting it in the Backstory, but my Man in Black looks like a random wanderer.
I'm planning to keep going with this colony of now two; we'll see how it ends.
Initial Thoughts on New Door Behavior
- Theorycrafting: I want to like this b/c it's realistic, but I think I'm gonna hate it. A wall + doors used to be the best defense in rimworld. Now, not so much.
- First death: Died to a gazelle on day 4. The shame.
- Resurrect with dev mode and spawn a bunch of single person raids/animal insanity to try things out: Well, it's probably okay mid/late game where I can use the new behavior to lure a couple raiders inside a killbox trap (since raiders don't hold doors open). Early game is much harder.
- Further attempts: I'm not sure. I kinda like the idea, but the execution leaves something to be desired. I think my main issue is that it used to be possible to recover from a mistake during micro on early raids (taking a hit from club man or whatever), now if I make a mistake the raiders/mad animals are in the base and it's likely GG. I'm sure I'll get better as I get used to how early I need to retreat now, but... meh.
- Early naked brutality is now much harder:
- one mistake in micro and raiders are in the base. (I know, git gud)
- one mistake in micro and ranged units are pretty much dead vs a melee unit. (I know, git gud)
- no longer safe to put anything outside by a door. A raider attacking a bench near a door is close enough to follow you back inside if you open the door. This doesn't seem terrible, just an adjustment.
- single mad animal events are much harder
- most animals are faster than humans now. Previously this meant you had to have an outbuilding to retreat into at a reasonable distance. Now you pretty much have to be inside all the time to be safe, since animals will always catch up and you can no longer shut doors in their faces.
- the animal AI around small buildings will often run around the corner. Peeking out to shoot frequently now means the animal gets inside. Previously, you could frequently get one shot at an animal as it came around a corner, then retreat. Now, taking almost any shot is suicide. Note: this is only really bad when you have a small building, as the animal will circle the building, staying close to the walls. Probably a non-issue later in the game, but early game this is painful.
- A short bow can fire one shot at an animal before you must retreat due to its short range/animal speed.
- A pawn outside the base is no longer even remotely safe, even if you have built outbuildings (see mad animal notes above).
- there are no longer "close calls" for anything chasing your pawn. Either you are obviously safe, or you're dead. (I know, git gud)
- A single melee hit on a pawn now ensures that raiders will enter the base. This is due to the interaction with various melee and door changes in 1.0 (slow down on melee hit + raiders entering doors means a pawn cannot ever get away if they get melee hit once)
Random notes from recent playthroughs
- I saw a 10 person siege, with 10 sniper rifles.
- Tried to fulfill a trade caravan for 8 normal jackets with a couple tainted (normal quality) jackets. Did not work -- which seems right to me, except nowhere in the UI does it explain why I can't fulfill the trade. It just gives me a message about needing 8 normal jackets, while I'm literally looking at a list of 8 normal jackets in the Items menu. I'd recommend changing the wording of the event to say something like "they want 8 non-tainted jackets."
- Incapable of violent pawn went berserk
- I saw a Tough Wimp in the pawn selection screen
- I keep forgetting where "smooth surface" is. I expect it to be in the structure menu, since it applies to walls now. It's also kinda a painful tool to use since (1) I can't just drag it quickly for floors now - I have to carefully drag to make sure it doesn't apply to the walls by the floor, and, (2) You can't smooth corners of rooms, which means it's frequently useless as a wall if I want to put power lines around a room. It would be great if the pawns could build the corner pieces of smooth just like normal walls (a great recent addition)
- A quick build button for transport pods on the UI when a transpod launcher is selected would be nice
- Greedy for impressive bedroom --> Run Wild. She's so fed up with not having a nice bedroom she decided to live without one entirely.
Randy, Merciless, flat temperate, commitment, no mods, 258 days, ~2 hours
Had some time to sit down an play again after a busy week. I can't say I'm enjoying centipedes at the moment, at all.
- Inferno - I've mentioned before, the 'pawn on fire' mechanic is really frustrating. The pawns choose absurd paths. In the hope of not having to play tower-defense, I tried a new strategy tonight - armouring up, and fighting them waist deep in the river. It didn't go so well. The pawns that tried this got 'stunlocked', permanently running around trying to put out their minor burns as the cendipedes showered them with fire. Ironically, the river actually made it worse, as the slow movement in the water caused them to take longer to find somewhere to put themselves out (even though they were already waist deep in water...)
- Heavy charge blaster - this feels far too random. I had my pawns spread out, behind brick walls and sandbags, with ceilings to get the dark bonus. In other words, the minimum chance of getting hit without resorting to cheesing the AI into not shooting at all.... Then fluke heart shots killed two colonists a few seconds apart, straight through power armour.
Honestly, it was 'not fun' enough to make me just stop playing.
I really don't want to play tower defense, and I don't want to cheese the AI into not firing back. I could bait them away with snipers and spend an hour or so of real time micromanaging that, but that's not fun, and feels like an exploit.
I enjoy a difficult game, and interesting losses, but I need to feel like I have an impact as a player. RNG heart shots and lemming like pawn behavior take that away from me.
I suggest:
- Pawns on fire probably shouldn't move, just beat out the fire on the spot. It's already enough that they're interrupted and hurt, and the terrain is on fire, imo. If they must move, make them move into cover, not out of it. I feel like the inferno is probably intended to counter fixed defenses (by setting them on fire), but as it's currently implemented, they're actually much more of a problem for dynamic defenses.
- Vital organs should be a bit less... Vital. Yeah, I know, hear me out on this... 0/15 heart? Give me a short (3h game time?) window of opportunity to pull them out to safety and operate / throw them in cryosleep. That'd be FUN to do in the middle of combat. I'd really enjoy having the dilemma of whether or not to make a difficult, urgent, rescue in the middle of a firefight. Trying but failing to save them in time would leave a much less bitter taste in the mouth than knowing that an unlucky dice roll was all it took to delete my colonist. In Rimworld, we have bionic organs and glitterworld meds -- lets put them to use :)
Quote from: ScrapyardBob on August 24, 2018, 06:36:21 AM
My suggestion for the floor wealth counts, even floors that were on the map at the start would be to introduce a new floor type for pre-existing structures.
- Crumbling stone
- Rusty steel flooring
- Rusty/Corroded steel wall
Give them a lower cost value and less resources returned.
I like this idea. I'd give them a zero value, but make them slightly ugly. That way they're still there as a source of resources and emergency shelter, but the player will want to claim and recycle them fairly early in the game.
This isn't a bug, but can the transparency background for the top left category menu be made to fit the whole of the window, or maybe an option in the settings? Low priority, but I thought I would ask. Thanks for being awesome.
A bruise caused Ben to dieCassandra, Savage, Arid Shrubland, no commitment (I never reloaded, no commitment because of unstable build), still playing (~400 in-game days in ~2 real time days now).
Mods: Incident person stats (to know if a pawn is worth rescuing), more vanilla turrets (for the military grade turret), more faction interaction, wall light (to light my hallways), ogrestack (so I don't need a 50x50 fridge), rimfridge (place fridges next to my cook for efficient cooking and in the dining room so pawns don't enter the fridge constantly), trading spot (to control where traders go), mad skills (the skill decay is too strong IMO, i set it to 30% of vanilla), while you're up.
I realy like B19 so far, here are some remarks.
- Mystical Shaman event: I send my caravan to the event to heal a nasty scar in the neck of one of my pawns, but instead it healed the disease (I believe it was the plague, not sure) of my elephant. I'd suggest that we can choose what pawn and what injury of this pawn gets healed.
- Hunter Lodge event: The generated map is too small for this event, the animals get to the other side quite fast. If you want to kill a decent amount of them you need to send half you colony. Also, if you're comfortable to send a caravan with such an amount of colonists, food probably isn't a main issue anymore. Furthermore, you almost need to build a fridge to keep all of the meat from rotting. This makes the event not worth it unless you really need the meat imo.
- Pirate fee demand: When you simply right click the notification, the event goes away and the pirates never attack you. This is a bug I guess?
- Pawns seem to die faster than before, whenever I get a prison break I almost always kill half of prisoners, this is very annoying since it takes quite long for some prisoners to get their resistance down. I almost have to drop my weapons and use bare fists in order not to kill them. I've also had a mad rat killing my colonist, well, not the rat itself, but my colonist (in full marine armor) was standing in beween a turret and the rat, he got 1-shot in the torso. This seems quite harsh, especially because he was wearing marine armor?
- As the title says, one of my colonists died of a bruise? I mean, it's Rimworld, but come on? Two of my colonists got into a fight due to one insulting the other. They both were wearing assault rifles and were melee'ing eachother, so its not like one of them had a sword or something like that. Just like that my main builder died, seems a bit off imo.
- The inferno cannon on centipedes is still very overpowered imo. If it hits one of your colonists he has like a 25% chance of dying because he runs towards the enemy, or because he never puts out the fire and goes down only to burn to death (sending another colonists to pick him up is extremely risky as he can, and probably will, also get hit by the inferno cannon). The hit radius of the cannon should be lowered imo, like 75% of their shots actually land because of the big blast radius. The only way of fighting them is to use snipers to stay out of their range, hit and run.
- It feels as if there is a tier of weapons missing. Something like extremely expensive glitterworld weapons that cannot be crafted but only be found when for example raiding pirate factions.
- Can we allow colonists to wear two weapons (maybe with a speed penalty)? This way you can use a sniper initially and when the enemy come close, switch weapon.
- The building order changed, so now my builder first builds all of the furniture inside before repairing my defenses, this is quite annoying. Maybe allow us to define a zone that the builder always should prioritize? This way we could put our defensive area in this zone and if something needs to be repaired or rebuild in this zone, he will do it before anything else.
I just put up a quick build with some bug fixes. Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Quote from: DeadByBruise on August 24, 2018, 09:02:50 PM
- Can we allow colonists to wear two weapons (maybe with a speed penalty)? This way you can use a sniper initially and when the enemy come close, switch weapon.
I like sidearm idea.
I think limiting sidearms to only small weapons like machine pistol or knife can make the game more interesting.
Because these small weapons become obsolete when player got access to bigger weapons like rifles or long sword.
Quote from: DeadByBruise on August 24, 2018, 09:02:50 PM
The building order changed, so now my builder first builds all of the furniture inside before repairing my defenses, this is quite annoying. Maybe allow us to define a zone that the builder always should prioritize? This way we could put our defensive area in this zone and if something needs to be repaired or rebuild in this zone, he will do it before anything else.
Here is a mod named WorkTab. It allow you to set priorities to any subwork. Dont know why it still not incorporated - peoples complain about work orders all the time im playing RimWorld. Definitely must be hidden to not confuse new players by walls of numbers, but at same time must be in vanilla, imho.
Quote from: Namsan on August 24, 2018, 11:56:08 PM
Quote from: DeadByBruise on August 24, 2018, 09:02:50 PM
- Can we allow colonists to wear two weapons (maybe with a speed penalty)? This way you can use a sniper initially and when the enemy come close, switch weapon.
I like sidearm idea.
I think limiting sidearms to only small weapons like machine pistol or knife can make the game more interesting.
Because these small weapons become obsolete when player got access to bigger weapons like rifles or long sword.
+1 for small sidearms, be it knives or 1 handed guns.
Quote from: DeadByBruise on August 24, 2018, 09:02:50 PM
- Can we allow colonists to wear two weapons (maybe with a speed penalty)? This way you can use a sniper initially and when the enemy come close, switch weapon.
There is a mod for A18 that added this, SimpleSidearms (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32497.0), and it's great. It's always annoyed me that as soon as enemies get close I need to micromanage switching out shooting/melee pawns (also, makes pawns with melee *and* shooting usefully advantageous). I'd be happy if it just allowed melee/sidearms in the secondary slot.
Quote from: Xgkkp on August 25, 2018, 05:13:48 AM
Quote from: DeadByBruise on August 24, 2018, 09:02:50 PM
- Can we allow colonists to wear two weapons (maybe with a speed penalty)? This way you can use a sniper initially and when the enemy come close, switch weapon.
There is a mod for A18 that added this, SimpleSidearms (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32497.0), and it's great. It's always annoyed me that as soon as enemies get close I need to micromanage switching out shooting/melee pawns (also, makes pawns with melee *and* shooting usefully advantageous). I'd be happy if it just allowed melee/sidearms in the secondary slot.
Sounds like something that will make the combat really unbalanced. Things are like they are often because of balance and not because something is impossible to implement or make more "complicated". Does your enemies have the same advantage?
its done for balance reasons, allowing to carry both melee and ranged weapon at same time is nice and logical, but will make combat boring and repetitive.
yeah, i mean it's like a game of cards.. With the mod you suddenly get the option to have an extra card which can be whatever you want instead of carefully having to consider what to use.
The later makes far more sense in game of strategy. While some things make sense to be built around realism, combat specifically would really have to be super complex (on both ends, enemies would need to be super smart too). So imo the mod does not make sense, or rather it doesn't understand what the combat system is trying to achieve.
I love the changes in the new unstable. Love that there is now a 64-bit version... only it is a bit awkward to get at this being you must open Steam, right click on 'Rimworld' then select the 64-bit launch option...
I know this has been mentioned more than once in the past 100 pages, but could the 32-bit and 64-bit be switched around so it runs 64-bit by default instead of the 32-bit? That or in the Readme.txt include some launch option instruction (like the save file location) so that a launch option like -64 could be added to default it to 64-bit launching?
Quote from: RawCode on August 25, 2018, 08:22:02 AM
its done for balance reasons, allowing to carry both melee and ranged weapon at same time is nice and logical, but will make combat boring and repetitive.
I disagree. If anything, it makes it less repetitive, because suddenly, when the enemy charges you, standing your ground and going melee may be a viable choice, while before skirmishing was always the only logical choice.
Quote from: Ilya on August 25, 2018, 11:51:35 AM
Quote from: RawCode on August 25, 2018, 08:22:02 AM
its done for balance reasons, allowing to carry both melee and ranged weapon at same time is nice and logical, but will make combat boring and repetitive.
I disagree. If anything, it makes it less repetitive, because suddenly, when the enemy charges you, standing your ground and going melee may be a viable choice, while before skirmishing was always the only logical choice.
instead of planning you just click attack and pawns handle combat on it's own.
-zergs- tribals swarmed your snipers?
no problem, they have chainsaws as sidearm and absolutely fine in melee, dat melee snipers!
Quote from: RawCode on August 25, 2018, 01:19:30 PM
Quote from: Ilya on August 25, 2018, 11:51:35 AM
Quote from: RawCode on August 25, 2018, 08:22:02 AM
its done for balance reasons, allowing to carry both melee and ranged weapon at same time is nice and logical, but will make combat boring and repetitive.
I disagree. If anything, it makes it less repetitive, because suddenly, when the enemy charges you, standing your ground and going melee may be a viable choice, while before skirmishing was always the only logical choice.
instead of planning you just click attack and pawns handle combat on it's own.
-zergs- tribals swarmed your snipers?
no problem, they have chainsaws as sidearm and absolutely fine in melee, dat melee snipers!
if there's a sidearm, ther'dnt be tribal melee rush no? xD there'd be a bunch of longbow tribals standing behind rocks+trees trying to snipe you, constesting with whatever guns you also have
I started a game in the newest build.
Randy Savage, Cold bog biome.
I did not have a single raid in 75 days. I realize Randy is Randy but feels buggy. Guess I'm just lucky.
Did have a ton of manhunter events though.
Quote from: RawCode on August 25, 2018, 01:19:30 PM
...
instead of planning you just click attack and pawns handle combat on it's own.
-zergs- tribals swarmed your snipers?
no problem, they have chainsaws as sidearm and absolutely fine in melee, dat melee snipers!
Adding side arms won't remove planning.
It will just change it to planning around whatever side arms or melee weapons the enemy has.
Just because you give your best gunner a knife doesn't mean they can suddenly stand up against the lvl 15 master brawler baring down on them with a plasteel mace. You still have to fall back and match your forces to theirs.
Im on the fence about sidearms, but "lack of planning" is not a valid reason to shoot the idea down.
Quote from: erdrik on August 25, 2018, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: RawCode on August 25, 2018, 01:19:30 PM
...
instead of planning you just click attack and pawns handle combat on it's own.
-zergs- tribals swarmed your snipers?
no problem, they have chainsaws as sidearm and absolutely fine in melee, dat melee snipers!
Adding side arms won't remove planning.
It will just change it to planning around whatever side arms or melee weapons the enemy has.
Just because you give your best gunner a knife doesn't mean they can suddenly stand up against the lvl 15 master brawler baring down on them with a plasteel mace. You still have to fall back and match your forces to theirs.
Im on the fence about sidearms, but "lack of planning" is not a valid reason to shoot the idea down.
Sidearms would break the current balance between range and melee and require further work to be reasonable. Ranged weapons already got nerfs to their minimum range to prevent firing for the purpose of making melee have the upper-advantage once they close the gap. Your theoretical situation is true, but you aren't going to be going up against 15 melee skill pawns with plasteel maces every raid.
Unless you got some extra changes in mind past just allowing for a pawn to equip a secondary weapon at a certain 'weight' value, all this does is make diversity between your combat pawns less important as why would you have a dedicated melee line when you can just equip your firing squad with good-quality melee weapons to deal with the rushing melee?
Hi, I am playing B19 with some mods, but I keep crashing to desktop without any crash dump being create nor the output_log saying anything. Is there any way to figure out whats causing it? it was working fine 2 days ago, but after an update it seems something isn't playing along nicely anymore.
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on August 25, 2018, 04:48:21 PM
...
Your theoretical situation is true, but you aren't going to be going up against 15 melee skill pawns with plasteel maces every raid.
... why would you have a dedicated melee line when you can just equip your firing squad with good-quality melee weapons to deal with the rushing melee?
I was exaggerating somewhat to make my point.
My "theoretical situation" is not only true, but in my experience common. Perhaps the gap is not to the extent I mentioned, as I said I exaggerated. But most of the time pawns with good shooting skill don't necessarily have good brawler skill. Also you can't equip Shield belts on shooters if you actually intend for them to shoot.
Between that and other traits, conditions, or a pawn's value to the colony will ensure that you will always want to ensure that certain pawns never come into contact with an enemy brawler(or even ANY enemy at all).
Having a "dedicated melee line" comprised of high skill brawlers, equip with shield belts is a fantastic way to do that.
It's not just the weapon that determines who makes up the brawler force in a colony.
Hey guys let's please stay on topic, this is not a thread for open-ended suggestions nor discussions of such. This includes sidearms. It's also not a tech support thread. There are lots of other places for these.
This is a feedback thread so please stay focused on experienced-based feedback. Thanks.
Quote from: Tynan on August 25, 2018, 07:36:04 PM
This is a feedback thread so please stay focused on experienced-based feedback. Thanks.
I hope this is on topic then- I've played since A17, and recently watched a playthrough using B18, and I miss the old scythers that have both strong melee and ranged- they were a good scary enemy, it'd be great to see them back, even as a third type of scyther. Having only melee or ranged puts them at raider level, as opposed to a high tech level.
Quote from: Crow_T on August 25, 2018, 08:25:22 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 25, 2018, 07:36:04 PM
This is a feedback thread so please stay focused on experienced-based feedback. Thanks.
I hope this is on topic then- I've played since A17, and recently watched a playthrough using B18, and I miss the old scythers that have both strong melee and ranged- they were a good scary enemy, it'd be great to see them back, even as a third type of scyther. Having only melee or ranged puts them at raider level, as opposed to a high tech level.
Personally, I find the new mixes more scary. There are times when it works to my advantage of course, but those scythers are no joke and they are fast. When you get a mix of all 3 types of mechanoids they can wreak havoc on you, quickly. I find even when I engage a lancer in melee combat I still end up taking quite a bit of hefty damage unless its a melee pawn in power armor or something. With Scythers I have to try to kill them as quickly as possible BEFORE they get to my line of shooters because I'm for sure going to lose some limbs if I don't, or worse. The ranged lancers still melee pretty hard and the scythers are murderous if you let them near you. Thankfully they have much lower health these days to compensate.
Centipedes.... they are the assholes.. ;/
Hi,
I see that a few updates have been made lately on the unstable branch, but I cannot find where to read the changes ; anyone can direct me ? Thx.
Quote from: zakouski on August 26, 2018, 06:10:26 AM
Hi,
I see that a few updates have been made lately on the unstable branch, but I cannot find where to read the changes ; anyone can direct me ? Thx.
They stopped posting them and did not say why, but before they stopped posting them there were multiple unheeded requests to not comment on them in the thread. I assume they stopped posting them to keep us from commenting on them.
Recently playthrough took a team to the mystic shaman event in the hopes of getting a pawn's multiple permanent injuries fixed. Two different episodes of concern:
First it healed a dog I brought with me instead of a pawn
Second it healed a pawn of starvation-trivial def.
Both in my mind are headaches that shouldn't happen.
Thank you, Charles
I noticed that girls need shirts to not be naked. Isn't this sexist?
Storyteller: Cassandra
Difficulty: Merciless, Lost Tribe
Biome/hilliness: Biome: Temperate Forest 30/60 growing period, Hilliness: Flat
Commitment mode: Yes
Colony age (days): 60 days
Hours played in the last 2 days: Maybe 5 or so hours on this colony.
Complete mod list: No Mods
Colony Screenshot: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2483060607412015834/D7CCE84EEBBBF8746416239E682587F59CC74110/
Positive Feedback: Art looks nice (Meat, sculpture table, sandbags ect.), AI seems to be smarter in general, new armor system is great, More smarter raids then normal raids, such as sieges and drop pod raids (idk if it's luck of the draw or intended for 1.0), the wildlife tab, meme raids (fire squad, all sniper squad ect.), caravans, and much more.
Negative Feedback: Sieges still seem easy to counter in 0.19, Just have some pawns snipe some raiders from a distance, the raiders helplessly stand there and die. IMO the new melee Scythers are too weak (Health wise), Straight men can now have the hairstyle "Pigtails", which is confusing/guess their genderway too feminine IMO (Idk if this was added to 0.19 or not, but I've only noticed this in 0.19 and I've been playing since A15).
Summary: In general 1.0 is looking very promising, great work Tynan!
Quote from: zizard on August 26, 2018, 03:07:25 PM
I noticed that girls need shirts to not be naked. Isn't this sexist?
Rimworlds are less progressive than wherever you live where women walk around shirtless all the time.
Also I'm planning a vacation, where do you live? ;)
Randy savage (did you rename the difficulty for this?)
mountainous jungle year round growing
naked brutality
colony age: 172 days
time played this map: 9 hours across 2 days.
No mods
starting pawn isn't perfect but who is?
No steam geysers nearby, mountains stretch the east side of the map as expected. Marble and granite only. But survival comes first.
There's less food in the jungle than I remember, Tyr isn't great at picking berries and somehow fails 4/6 times with 3 growing skill. It's not hard to pick berries, but whatever.
Day 2.5: a raider with an awful knife who forgot to wear clothes shows up and prepares an assault. I don't know what he's preparing but it gives Tyr enough time to build a single wooden trap near the door to the shack. The raider sets the wood shack on fire then busts down a wall (not the door for some reason) and enters to find Tyr armed with a log. I lure him into the trap and after 6 misses from each combatant Tyr comes out on top, suffering minor injuries. The short bow was 2 work away from being done.
In the coming days he starves on occasion and has a tantrum or two. Luckily the mental breaks are over with quickly and he gets back to building a shack and mining his first steel.
day 15: A diet of chinchillas and tortoises have allowed us to stockpile leather for tribalwear. 3 transport pods in less than a week, first an abrasive pawn with no combat skills, then a wimp chemical fascination. The third skyperson is a gay tough nervous man named Paine. I rename the quickly recruited colonist (0 resistance 10% recruit chance) and Tyr welcomes Pain to his camp. They agree to name the site and their faction. I randomize a bit and stumble upon the faction name of Butbum with the colony name of Craps district. I hope this isn't a shitty run but I have surely jinxed it.
One of my previous tribal runs had the (totally randomized) faction name "The Bringa of the Bush" and the fitting colony name of "White Stream". I'm immature, I know.
Day 15: raid around midnight, one dude with a knife, has clothes this time at least. The too smart fast learner raider walks directly over 2 traps and dies. He was in perfect health too. Wish I had resurrector serum at this point, but oh well.
Day 21: Lidia, housemate (reminds me of skyrim) joins the colony. Her brother raided us last week so I say she's a spy. I take her gear and banish her and she trips a trap and dies. I don't know what to say about that. Later that day cargo pod of 16 components lands. Hooray!
Day 31: refugee event, where 2 penitents (whatever that is) are chasing some dude in his 40's. Okay, sure. I've got enough defense for 2 tribals and I only have to down/kill one because raiders always flee at half their starting numbers. Felix joins Butbum. Annoying voice isn't great but 10 melee and 9 plants are skills that are needed here.
Day 33: I have had 2 different packs of cargo pods bring chemfuel and a boomalope self tamed. I guess I'll get a chemfuel generator. Oh wait I can't, nobody has 6 construction.
Day 45: got another refugee event, 4 tribals easily dispatched. Rissa settled into her role as primary builder quite nicely. She's a brawler with double passion in social and intelligence. Wild man wanders in later that day, Tyr tames her (maybe fix the letter to denote gender) and Maya also joins the colony of Craps District.
Day 49: Rissa went on an insulting spree. I drafted everyone and told them to melee her down. Felix says "sure boss I'll kill her for you" and stabs her in the neck. She dies of an infection with 8 and 14% tends using herbal and Tyr's 4 in medicine. Reality check that I do not have a perfect crew here. Also boomalope died of plague.
Day 69: bought 2 labrador retrievers. Sold the human leather and other stuff I was stockpiling. Just testing how much it hurts to chop up raiders. It causes more problems than it solves.
Day 75: this one is odd. A single visitor appears and they are related to a colonist. The letter says "Relationship". At a glance I think somebody got married and divorced so quickly the game was just like yeah they're exes now. I think the game should care about the origins of a pawn when creating their family, it is extremely immersion breaking to have a space refugee related to a 16 year old tribesmen, for example. Anyway, rename the letter to visitor(s) – relationship.
Day 94: 2 lancers stroll in during a heat wave (65 degrees C), I guess because humans can't handle the heat. We have our self tamed rhino "Ruffian" tank a few shots and chop up the bots for a whopping 8 plasteel.
Day 114: psychic ship appears. Makes 4 monkeys mad and I feel my 8 colonists and Ruffian can handle 3 or 4 mechanoids with the help/distracting monkeys. Abusing the AI of the manhunters (and the fact that they manhunt mechs) I lured them into a free for all. I lost an alpaca and a bonded labrador, but no colonist damage. Psychic ships are nasty and I've learned to deal with them promptly. Poison ships however are usually something I can ignore for 60 days.
Day 146: level 5 doctor with blue medicine catastrophically fails a lung install and stabs the healthy lung enough to kill the patient. Other than a missing lung the patient, Knight, was healthy. Sucks. But with the rate that new people arrive in transport pods it won't be an issue.
Day 149: Sparkles has a midnight murderfriend drop into her bedroom. A single mechanoid raid because why not. All 7 colonists and a rhino stand in the hallway and open the door to shoot, close it when it comes close and no damage taken. Clearly not intended to be difficult.
Day 151: refugee event brings 30 pirates with only melee weapons directly into the path of the psychic ship that landed just outside my wall. Shotguns and 2 lopsided battles for them and they are cleaned up and I have a new person to banish because they aren't that great. All said and done we are up to 10 colonists and 5 mini turrets. 0 components. Ruffian runs out of blood, but on day 153 an elephant joins to replace him.
Build updates to 2006 and I play for about an hour more
I seem to have no problems with raids, 3 tribal sapper events within 2 weeks and not even a scratch on my people. Tech is super quick compared to my usual tribal runs.
Auroras seem utterly useless. As far as I can tell you need to wake people up in the middle of the night when it happens and they stand outside for ¼ the time of a party for a mood boost that only lasts during that time.
wealth at day 173 is 120k, with 10 colonists, 5 animals.
I quite enjoy playing and breaking down the play like this but it is so much slower /harder to get to late game. I hope it is useful nonetheless.
Keeping torches, camp fires and passive cooling going is a constant battle on tribal start. It is nice in b19 that I only have to refuel them instead of rebuild them from scratch. But I still feel like torches and passive coolers require too much wood per day.
Blight is still a PITA to deal with. It's a lot of squinting and clicking to select all the crops to be cut out. I agree with the mechanic, but its colors are close that of corn. I usually just slash cut the entire field (after turning off sowing of new plants).
Not sure if this is still true, but if "IED trap" is still named that way, maybe it should be "IED explosive trap" to make it more like the other "IED (something) trap" names.
Got infestation in my fermentation room with only 1 tile overhead mountain. There was chem-fuel refinery on that tile. When the hives appeared the refinery disappeared! It was not destroyed because no steel chunks scattered, it was just vanished into thin air.
I thought the hive won't spawn on a tile with production things.
I had to put wall on that tile, the room looks wonky now but it's better than bugs.
Quote from: ScrapyardBob on August 26, 2018, 09:46:15 PM
... but if "IED trap" is still named that way, maybe it should be "IED explosive trap" to make it more like the other "IED (something) trap" names.
Please no. Explosive is already in the name.
"
Improvised
Explosive
Devise Explosive Trap" is just unnecessary.
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Recent builds haven't changed any gameplay so there's nothing to post, really. It's just bugfixes.
Quote from: Tynan on August 27, 2018, 07:13:56 AM
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Recent builds haven't changed any gameplay so there's nothing to post, really. It's just bugfixes.
Very excited for 1.0.
It still says "impacted" instead of "landed" or "crashed" for spaceship chunks though... very sad...
Quote from: erdrik on August 26, 2018, 11:45:38 PM
Quote from: ScrapyardBob on August 26, 2018, 09:46:15 PM
... but if "IED trap" is still named that way, maybe it should be "IED explosive trap" to make it more like the other "IED (something) trap" names.
Please no. Explosive is already in the name.
"Improvised Explosive Devise Explosive Trap" is just unnecessary.
Or maybe "Improvised Explosive Trap" and "Improvised (something) Trap" and avoid the whole "IED".
What point does the jacket have? Parka without debuffs is just better in any way. It costs a bit more, but that hardly is an issue.
I'm frustrated by the lack of a mood bonus to burying colonists in sarcophagi. All it does at this point is keep the bodies available for people with corpse obsessions!
I do think the +8 old bonus was probably a bit much, but none at all make building tombs pointless.
Storyteller: Phoebe
Difficulty: Medium
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, flat, river (year round growing)
Commitment mode: No
Colony age: 210 days
Total wealth: 300k
Hours played in the last 2 days: 5
No mods.
Me: newbie.
Part I: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg425195#msg425195
Part II: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg426124#msg426124
Part III: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg427631#msg427631
Story continues...
Mainly base building at this point. Adding more power, an outer wall (to slow invaders down enough so we can gear up, hopefully), more rooms and better defences. It looks like my bright idea to use the lake in the middle of my base as a killzone is not going to work very well, but I'm building a uranium slug turret anyways to protect that entrance since last time the pirates and lancers attacked they just shot my mini-turrets from long range while I watched helplessly. My colonists also insist in walking through the mud by the lake despite nice paths behind walls, but there isn't a way to tell them areas to avoid. Also they have started cleaning my outer wall area, as well as the traps I've set up.
I'm definitely struggling more to manage a base of 18 people. Getting growing and grazing areas sized correctly, the right amount of workers and priorities right, and the right people doing the right bills (crafting and cooking I'm looking at you) is quite challenging. Things don't hum along like they used to, I'm semi-enjoying the optimization problems, but frustrated at the amount of manual prioritization I need to do and it's not clear how I fix things.
A few of my animals get the flu and then 5 become plagued, so I decided to slaughter most of the sick ones. My chickens are starting to starve despite a large size grazing area inside the outer walls, so I've been starting to cull them as well. I don't seem to be getting many unfertilized eggs from them (at least not like my real life experiences) and just hauling the eggs from all over (instead of them laying in nests) makes it so I'm not sure they are worth the trouble. Word must have gotten out that I was slaughtering animals, because a pack of 22 angry caribou showed up looking to cull my human herd. Time to find out how the new outer walls work out...
Suggestions and comments:
- Traps should probably default to auto-rearm, and stay that way even if they are out of the home zone (it seems like they have been reverting back to no-auto-rearm if they outside of a home zone?)
- It would be very, very nice to have multiple levels of home zone, and/or separate firefighting or cleaning zones:
1) fight fires (outside but near the base)
2) fight fires + repair (outer walls, inner bailey)
3) fight fires + repair + clean (base)
4) fight fires + repair + priority clean (kitchen, hospital, bedrooms)
- Additionally it would be nice to mark areas that you want colonists to avoid (to help control pathing), not absolute avoid but increase the costs considerably so they take a different (longer by default) route. For example I have garden and field paths that I would prefer them to take, plus my damn muddy lake that they just love to muck about in. If I could mark areas to avoid that might help.
- Both of the above leads me to think that zones could have some flags and that would solve all of my issues. Flags: avoid, fight fires, repair, clean, priority clean, and cut trees. Perhaps haul and priority haul flags would come in handy too.
- I saw one of my colonists feeding a fine meal to a sick alpaca. That seems excessive.
- Similarly, why are my colonists taking pemmican instead of simple meals when there are no fine meals available? Is that working as intended? I can try to organize storage better if it's a distance check. Would be nice to be able to specify what meals you'd prefer them to carry.
- I have a couple of dirt patches in one room (with a carpet in it, although one of the dirt patches is on flagstone next to carpet) that cannot be cleaned?
- Chickens seem to have a poor return on investment. Not sure about the meat from slaughter but the unfertilized egg output seems low. Having them lay eggs with a strong priority in animal resting spots would be a nice upgrade (although perhaps then that requires being able to share the same spot with a resting animal?).
- Similarly for shearing and milking, it would be nice to be able to designate an animal tending spot for that so that the animal tender leads the animal to the work spot to do the work to minimize later hauling and chasing the animal around. Animals at 100% milk/shearing could hang around the tending zone when not eating or resting.
- Similarly, when being trained, animals should stop moving or slow down considerably. I've seen a stoned, slow moving trainer chasing an animal (doing a long distance haul). It's funny because it's sad.
- I'd like to see more quests that I can ignore if I'm struggling just with base management. Not sure how it works now but Phoebe could probably use Cassandra selection of events for any events that are opt-in. It would just reduce the frequency of mandatory events (raids, manhunter, etc).
- Got a trade quest for 18 bionic legs for 32 advanced components and a techprof core. That is a bizarre and terrible deal since the legs take 70+ advanced components. Might be good to exclude any exchanges where the input to the request is (significantly more) than the inputs to the result. I'm not sure if its better to make the requests simple or increase immersion (i.e. 18 bionic legs... WTF is going on over there? vs a variety of bionic bits could be explained by trying to make an android army).
I have to agree with squiggle that chickens don't seem appealing, and remembering the last time I used them they clogged my animals tab, stole animal beds from injured or sick animals, dropped eggs in the middle of nowhere, (that were auto forbidden for not being in home zone), ate entire meals when they needed like 2 rice and bred so quick I just killed them all off to stop the beeping. Maybe collapsible menus for animal types in the tab? Either way, I'm still going to slaughter every animal smaller than dog, too much trouble.
Quote from: cactusmeat on August 27, 2018, 12:23:04 PM
I have to agree with squiggle that chickens don't seem appealing, and remembering the last time I used them they clogged my animals tab, stole animal beds from injured or sick animals, dropped eggs in the middle of nowhere, (that were auto forbidden for not being in home zone), ate entire meals when they needed like 2 rice and bred so quick I just killed them all off to stop the beeping. Maybe collapsible menus for animal types in the tab? Either way, I'm still going to slaughter every animal smaller than dog, too much trouble.
Well, put them in a seperate zone, only feed them hay or rice and don't give them animal beds. Use the tools you're given before asking for changes dood.
Cheers :)
Quote from: Syrchalis on August 27, 2018, 10:36:52 AM
What point does the jacket have? Parka without debuffs is just better in any way. It costs a bit more, but that hardly is an issue.
I think the same; apart from looking better than the parka, the jacket has no advantage. Doesnt make sense to wear a parka in a desert and actually benefit from wearing it.
Quote from: Koek on August 27, 2018, 12:44:54 PM
Quote from: cactusmeat on August 27, 2018, 12:23:04 PM
I have to agree with squiggle that chickens don't seem appealing, and remembering the last time I used them they clogged my animals tab, stole animal beds from injured or sick animals, dropped eggs in the middle of nowhere, (that were auto forbidden for not being in home zone), ate entire meals when they needed like 2 rice and bred so quick I just killed them all off to stop the beeping. Maybe collapsible menus for animal types in the tab? Either way, I'm still going to slaughter every animal smaller than dog, too much trouble.
Well, put them in a separate zone, only feed them hay or rice and don't give them animal beds.
Ya, my chickens have their own bedding zone, and own grazing zones (1 square of hay + dandelions + wild grass).
I can live with the chicken animal menu clutter (especially since you can hold down and drag to change their zone, that is amazing).
The forbidden eggs are annoying, I didn't realize that was a home zone issue, but I have very restrictive home zones to reduce wasteful cleaning. Maybe need to rethink the tradeoffs.
On a real-life farm you'd be able to set up feed times where a colonist grabs hay/food from storage and places it somewhere and the amount of food is roughly what is required by the animals. I don't think there is any simple way to do the UI for that or I'd suggest it. Hmm, actually... maybe an animal feeding spot where you can set delivery bills: food to allow, time of day, which animals to feed (and what percentage of their total nutrition). Haul job would complete the entire delivery and top up the available feed at the feeding spot to meet the nutrition requested. So you could do:
Chicken feeding spot
1) Hay, 6am: chickens: 25% nutrition
2) Hay, 5pm: chickens: 25% nutrition
(Rest coming from grazing).
Even if the percentage amounts were fixed (you just select one of several bills: 10%, 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% say) that would be a help. I could live with it being a fixed amount rather than a percentage, but that's similar to some of the micro that is making me frustrated. I could see something similar working for delivering stacks of prepared food to a dining room.
The trick would be either auto-waking a hauler to make a delivery or forcing a player to put a hauler on forced work at the delivery time. I could live the second but would be non-obvious for new players.
I know this maybe is making Rimworld too much of a farm simulator, but survival does depend on raising your food efficiently.
Quote from: Nynzal on August 27, 2018, 12:57:38 PM
Quote from: Syrchalis on August 27, 2018, 10:36:52 AM
What point does the jacket have? Parka without debuffs is just better in any way. It costs a bit more, but that hardly is an issue.
I think the same; apart from looking better than the parka, the jacket has no advantage. Doesnt make sense to wear a parka in a desert and actually benefit from wearing it.
Jackets give a little bit more damage resistance compared to parkas, while parkas insulate better. Parkas are probably best if you're playing on an extreme cold map, whereas jackets can help to both protect a bit against damage and protect pawns from cold just fine in cold-but-not-too-cold maps.
Quote from: A RANG MA on August 27, 2018, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: Nynzal on August 27, 2018, 12:57:38 PM
Quote from: Syrchalis on August 27, 2018, 10:36:52 AM
What point does the jacket have? Parka without debuffs is just better in any way. It costs a bit more, but that hardly is an issue.
I think the same; apart from looking better than the parka, the jacket has no advantage. Doesnt make sense to wear a parka in a desert and actually benefit from wearing it.
Jackets give a little bit more damage resistance compared to parkas, while parkas insulate better. Parkas are probably best if you're playing on an extreme cold map, whereas jackets can help to both protect a bit against damage and protect pawns from cold just fine in cold-but-not-too-cold maps.
Unless this has changed in unstable 1.0/B19, parkas provide a global 20% reduction in work speed, which at times can be detrimental. Jackets are also cheaper, and parkas are almost never needed except in very cold climates.
Would you like to make the prisoner ITab size compat with new prisoner interaction mode?
When I added a new prisoner interaction mode, always an old prison interaction mode could not display.
Storyteller: Randy
Difficulty: Rough
Biome/hilliness: Temperate forest, Large Hills
Commitment mode: Yes
Just a few notes from my current play through,
- During a heat wave it makes no difference to wear a parka, This is a little strange as taking the parka off should make your more comfortable on the high temp range. Its a big insulated jacket
- I do like the food poisoning mechanic now. Very good to know the reason etc
- Can you change the colour of the research bar on the research screen, bottom left, white on the light blue is very difficult to read.
- Having seperate cleaning and fire zomes would help a lot.
- weather was showing dry thunder storm but it was raining
- for prisoners does reduce resistance reduce the resistance more quickly than just using recruit ? For the pirate prisoners could we introduce a action on the comms console to ransom them back. Releasing them is pointless.
- previous game went badly, man in black turned up. Seemed to cheesy so just quit the game. If the colony dies because of circumstance or my stupidity thats fine. It is the story we got. The man in black just makes it limp along. Completely takes me out of the game., just feels like a badly written film or book where thay need to crowbar in something by coincidence
- Would it be worth getting a bonus for burying a colonist in a tomb ?
- Just on the ate without table thing, if the colonists hate eating without a table why do they pocket food ? it makes no sense to take food with you when you want to eat at a table. They all seem have some psychological issue that they need to sit at a table. Picnics are dead on the rimworld ;-)
Amazing game, keeps up the good work.
Thanks everyone! The beta is out now so I'll lock this thread. I can't express how much I appreciate people volunteering their time to offer such great feedback. Feel free to keep it coming regarding the public version as well.